You're a lush. You're a lush Donegan ay. What time is your class over ten thirty? So you'll show up at ada about eleven? Alright. Oh is it near there? Twenty second street. Knowing Cheryl there'll be a little bit there'll be a lag time. Fif thirteenth? Where did you go last time? Hey. Hah! Thank you Alix. Alix, she's a packhorse! Yeah you gotta get one up this way going north. She's subbing for him. Yeah. We don't. Right Alix? When I saw when I saw Edouard at that party and Alix and I exchanged a glance. Yeah Cheryl. Yeah, well. It's good but, him. Not anymore. He's losing it. Do you think he's losing his looks? Let's go. Let's go. Well, that's diplomatic. He was cute. Yeah right. Somehow we get away with it I don't understand why women don't. Women or men? Yeah there were a lot of craggy women up there. Oh god, I'm glad I didn't know them! Here comes another one. I'm glad I I'm glad I didn't know them Alix much of many of those women. Did you did you know too many? Uh huh. Cheryl see you at adaweb! Cheryl if I don't see you there I've gone home and it was boring. I'll see you at home. Bye! About John? He's got a girlfriend. I don't know. No. I don't know anything about it. All he say to me is she's so famous! He's. Yeah, of course he is. Sure. John? Enamored of fame? He wishes he was famous! Do you guys wanna go up to the Thai place or the Vietnamese place up there? OK, let's do it. No I didn't really know anybody. I knew Jay I knew I knew Meyer that was about it. Oh I didn't see any of them. Haven't seen them in years. Uh hmm with you. And then Cheryl and I were there just recently. Are you freezing? You know, cozy are models aren't they? You guys wanna go to New Pasteur or you wanna go to Thailand make your choice. Alright. Yeah. I don't like movies, yeah. Still. Yeah, I talk. I talk the whole time. Oh I don't I don't anymore. You guys sit there so I can face you. Oh yeah, great great. I'd like to check that out. I really would. Well WFMU late night radio it might be. I've been fucking I had a a lunch a breakfast appointment. I got trashed at the MOMA fancy restaurant for lunch and then then John's. It's been a debauched day. Yeah, the only way I can do it is to keep drinking, I think. I'm drunk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have to keep drinking or I'm gonna be asleep. Sure sure. What what what should I eat if I've been drinking all day? Soup maybe soup? A thing of rice? I've been eating all day too. You guys you two do it I'm going I'm going solo here yeah I've got to I think I'm gonna have some soup I think I need that. I'm just high nothing can dampen it so just go on. I don't know it was nine a m. Yeah I have an appointment at nine a m tomorrow too. Noho Star? Lovely. Oh it's a nice place. Yep. Aw. Why don't you guys why don't you give me a um um vermicelli with uh uh beef. Yeah. No no no. I'm gonna have trouble with one thing. Just water for me thanks. I take the bus out there. Uh about a few blocks but the problem is that last week there were two gunshots fired out in front of the studio. Yeah. Oh you were listening to who's show? It was Tuesday night and it must have been Meredith's show. Yeah yeah. Well it was by it was by a car being chased by cops. Yeah well, I was there I was in the studio when it happened. It was harsh. It's weird. Yeah, it's gotten a lot funkier out there, yeah. I don't mind it to me it's like sort of going out to the country. It really is. It's like suburban there are trees it's really pretty. But East Orange has the highest rate of crime in the country. Yeah and. So. Oh, um, the six a.m. show the Jewish show. No, you do you do all that yourself. Yeah. Nothing. Often times I'm all alone in the house. It's creepy I got to tell you, man. I got to say, you're in this empty place, yeah. Yeah, but, you know, it's really fun. I, you know, I don't mind, you know, I live in New York City. I'm gonna be damned if fucking I walk four blocks... Well it's a pilgrimage. I'm gonna be damned if I walk four blocks and worry about getting mugged I mean I'm in this fucking city, you know, what please. It can't be rougher than New York, really. So I say to myself. No I haven't in New York? No I haven't. No no. Never. I've never had any trouble in this city. Yeah. I've never seen you anything but calm. Have you? OK, it's possible, huh? I haven't I haven't seen this yet. And what did they say? Yeah. I I I once got got uh kind of caught up in a scheme. I've gotten caught up in a few schemes in the city. But I've never been kind of had a knife to my neck. Cheryl was like had an attempted rape. You remember this on Canal St. When we first lived here about ten years ago this guy, you know, kind of like, you know, followed her back from the subway about five thirty in the evening and in the doorway attempted to rape her. Cheryl kicked the guy and ran upstairs. She got right right out of that situation. She calls me up frantic she's like this guy tried to rape me I was like ahhhh! We were broken up at the time so I flew over there I was like oooohhh! Yeah yeah. It was that that was as closest to violence sort of violent crime we've had in the city. But, you know, the East Orange thing, you know, like the guy that shot this guy on Lafayette Street recently. There was a there was a car hijacking or a car or two guys getting into an altercation on Lafayette and Bleecker, which is right around from my office and it was, you know, some guy from East Orange in the car that blew this other guy away. So, you know, East Orange is really mean. I haven't quite gotten gotten that yet but, uh... Yeah yeah I don't I never. What are they gonna do like take my twenty dollars and I have a bunch of avant garde records, you know? Hey guys, you know, you want my Stockhausen and Varese records? Yeah. Yeah. I go back I catch the six thirty bus yeah. I sleep all day Wednesday. It blows me off for a good two days, yeah. I can't do it much longer. I can't do the overnights much longer I feel like I put my time in but what's happening in the summer we may go to France Cheryl got through Dominique some woman has a chateau in France and Dominique recommended Cheryl to go there. So we may go... Yeah what they do what they do in France is that they give you money if you house artists. She's got a chateau in Bordeaux. The government gives you money so we may go we may go there I'm thinking that we're gonna be there for two months cause I don't want to be here this summer I've been here for the last five summers. So I'm kind of thinking if that's the case then I'll give my radio show up for the summer and I'll go back in the fall I'll get my radio show back in the fall. Oh yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. It's just a matter of us telling her when we're gonna come. Yeah, we're we're really thinking of that. Well the last five years we've been in the city. Haven't left the, you know, we really haven't left New York. I mean I left for India for two months and that's about it. Yeah. No Cheryl was teaching in Copenhagen so I I went alone which was good. I'd like to get back to India. I'd like to get to India this this... yeah. I mean that's a real dream it's a real dream. Yeah. It's a great place. Really. Yeah the North is pretty amazing. I wanna go, yeah. No no no. Honest. You were just away. I'm sorry, yeah. It was just a month ago! You got back you got back it's April fifteenth--that's a month and a half Alix! Well, a lot a lot's gone on I know, yeah. Hey so did you get my message? Yeah. Nice work with Spain. That's great! Well but if it happens you guys are gonna makes some money and it's a hundred and fifty bucks a minute, they said. Honey, if it's five minutes you make a lot of money it's very good. It's very... Yeah. Yeah. Well it's you, Cheryl and someone she met in Lyon. So what are they little snippets do they give a whole. Well, you know, three minutes times one hundred and fifty that's four four fifty that's pretty good. Yeah, you know what? I sold I gave my book to White Columns. Right I gave it to White Columns for their auction cause, you know, they they wanted something so I gave them a manuscript a signed manuscript of my book it sold for a hundred bucks for a signed manuscript. Well of course I didn't get any money but I was really happy, you know. Our our our expectations are just just just decreased these days. Nobody's, you know, nobody's making money, man. Suddenly, uh... It ain't the old days, hon. Cheryl feels that way too. You know, we're making no money. Cheryl's making no money. I'm making no money. And we kind of figure, you know, what the fuck?, you know, it's just just just just the way it is these days. Naw. I think like like last year I made like nothing. Like Cheryl made, like, last year a little more than nothing. I made nothing. Actually, my Internet biz is good. And that's gonna make me some money. I'm actually making a reasonable... Well that's good, yeah, you know, it's I don't mind I like working, you know, I've always been working more or less I mean, you know, I worked for Allan and now, you know... Took a couple of years off, you know. Anyway, no Alix. It wasn't that long. That was a good run. But you know I've got a I've got a I've got to be honest man I've got to be honest with you... No, it's fine. I can handle the Geoff and A.G. stories. Well, there you go. You got a check. It was probably like he probably was trying, like, to get Michelle to give a drawing for the no for the summer show. I think that's that's right. Times are hard. Who's publishing my book. Yeah I've I've gotten I've used to it he's a good guy he's, you know, I've I've gotten used to his shenanigans. Do you guys have the sauce for this? I'm getting sauce. It's dry. It's like it's like stick in my throat dry. Yeah, you know, he's a difficult character, yeah but she got a check. Fine. I'm happy I'm happy when I get a check, yeah. Divorced. Second divorce. So, what did you guys do this weekend you went... You have a good time? What did you guys do? My cousin lives in Southport. My cousin and Cheryl's sister, a lot of moisturizer, you know Southport? Yeah. They live in Southport, yeah. No my cousin and Cheryl's sister are married. Yeah. My cousin who was raised as Cheryl's brother yeah. No after. Uh huh. They live in Southport. She's going to Yale and uh yeah we've been up there, man. Fucking Southport is really nice. Really beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's close enough anyway. It's really nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're cool. We'll I was used he was raised as my brother. And we we were together inseparable basically, yeah, basically. Not literally, I mean, he had his own parents but we were... no. We were yeah. But he was my brother I mean he was raised as my brother. Oh all the time. Yeah. He's a great guy. Yeah, me too. I got one. Doovie's my brother married Cheryl's sister basically. It's pretty cool. Yeah. They're what? They're where? David says he always eats he always eats in Westport. I mean he says the food is real good there's all these great restaurants in Westport that's where these guys go all the time. Is she a good cook? Yeah. Oh cool. That seems like that sounds like just a chill out weekend, huh? Where Grand Central? I don't know. I always like the subway. I just feel good. Cheryl and I always feel good when we come back from my sister's house who lives in in Briarcliff Manor or it's in Westchester really ritzy area of Westchester. We always see like weird fucking people on the subway downtown we're always really happy when we see them sort of like, oh, we're back in New York, thank god. These people don't... she cute a good looking kid. She really is good looking kid. Girl. Isabelle. Yeah, it's a cute it's a cute kid yeah. Better looking than their kid, I'll tell ya that. Ugly. Them? Uh, my sister's better looking. Don't you think? Yeah yeah. Well anyway, same shit. They were born on the same day. Yeah. Aw, cat. No. Cause she's fat. I heard she was pregnant many times over the years and she was never! No you never you don't ask these kind of things. No she's fat. She looks like shit. I don't. I don't. Look who I'm married to! Christ, I'm married to a hermaphrodite! Cheryl satisfies all my bisexual... things. She is! She's like she's either like a cute little girl or a cute little guy. She's not curvaceous. No! No she doesn't! Alix, she's built like me! She's got more hips than I have but not much! And I don't have any. It's good. It works. It keeps me away from the guys it keeps me away from guys! No no no it does it does. It's enough it's enough it's cute enough it's it's it's it's sort of bisexual enough to keep me at home. Yeah. If I was with a voluptuous woman I'd want to find some guys. This works for me. You say what you want. Ay there are no no secrets here. You have a great body. You have an amazing body. No you got the leather pants. You got the leather pants. You're small. You have but you have bigger tits than Cheryl does. Well I wouldn't know that. I only know Cheryl's. It's kind of extended. I feel it already, this man's family. You know we are what what the fuck, you know. I mean ________________ . So we went out with her last night to Viet to Chinese food. Who was the guy. Who? No she wouldn't. No she wouldn't cause she cause Bruce Andrews was there. And Bru, you know, if it was just me and Cheryl it would have been... And who? Who was it? Yeah. Yeah. Yes yes yes yes that tailgated her. So? Well then if it won't then tell me. Alix it won't it won't go any further than this table other than to Cheryl. Now, let's go! Oh, well Gavin's wife was like really a total babe in the day. His wife. We first met Gavin, probably eighty nine when he was at the Whitney program his wife she was working at the Odeon she was so fucking beautiful. Now she's turned into a bit of a heifer. Yeah. Really put it on. She looks like a girl who's had too many kids. She was she was she was so fine she is she was so fine and Cheryl and I in the day would say like about Gavin like we're gonna be really good friends with these people we know we're going to be... well, yes, well he was on the outer edge, yeah... They were bitter. I don't know them anymore. Well, they're fat. I don't really know she used to she used to work at she was like the hostess at the Odeon and Gavin and I and Cheryl and her would be at a big table and Cheryl and I would always so we're gonna be really really tight with these people, you know? No no they didn't. They but but we never became tight with them because Gavin is always so reticent and so difficult. If Bruce Andrews wasn't no if Bruce and Sally weren't there... Well, she always gives Bruce the wrong idea. I mean, the two, I think she's, you know, Bruce and her have something going on their own some really intense thing going on their own but... Bruce... But Bruce Bruce was tough. Yeah but yeah but Bruce is also not the easiest person to be intimate with. He'll give you lots of shit. Anyway. Oh, it's shit just shit. Every stripe and color. So anyway when, you know, now it's a big joke the first thing the two of them sit down--they're always at dinner together... Bruce is really rough though. He cuts he cuts right to the bone it's not a he's not a polite person. Oh, he's very hard core. He's a very hard core experimental writer. Very leftist politics. Great guy. Very probably my best friend, you know, my best male friend now in New York. Great great friend of mine. Yeah, you know, just a great guy. A lot of people don't like him. He loves you. He loves you. Just don't get on the wrong side of Bruce. I never want to be on Bruce's wrong side. I mean, ew, yeah, oh. That's what I feel but I know people who have been on the wrong side of Bruce and he's fearsome, yeah. Fearsome. Yeah, he's got a a mind, you know, he's got an intellect that'll, you know, just shred anything in sight. He's he's he's incredibly, really bright. Anyway so her and Gavin. You know, what the heck, I mean Gavin Gavin's not a nice person never has been yeah. Well, she's just so happy to have somebody after her. A man of some kind of substance. That's a good question. Yeah. I never cared for him. She's hot. She's totally hot. I think she's so sexy. Really, I would feel the same way Gavin did, really, I think she's really really sexy. She's my kind of sexy. She is. Oh, you know, that's his problem. It's not her problem really, you know, I mean it's not gonna nothing's gonna... To resist it? Sure she is. Yes she is. She's also a person with principles I mean she's got morals, really. That's why I like her. No no no she really does. I'm not worried about her. She would never fuck around with a married guy to my knowledge. Aw, what do I know? Don't don't spoil my view of her. Yeah. Well, she's a big flatterer. Well, she's just too insecure, yeah. She's insecure about that stuff. I don't know, man, you know, when it comes down to it she's so fucking mean to these guys. I mean, she's so fucking brutal. Yeah, I don't I think I think she's a lesbian. I always have said this. I I to this moment I believe it. That's probably like I like her. That's probably why I find her hot. Yeah yeah. I I don't I I really think she's gay. I didn't know anybody at that party. I didn't anybody by face. I'm sure I knew names but I didn't know anybody I mean just besides Jay and Meyer. Who else was there? I knew Jerry I knew Roberta I mean people I know, yeah. It really is I think so. John's not that much older than we are but he he cultivates sort of older friends than he is. He's what, ten years older than we are? How old are you? He's uh, what is John? About forty? I like John, man, he's a good guy. I really do, you know, throughout thick and think I I have plenty of reasons to think he's an asshole but I when it comes right down to it I like him. I I mean he's fun to he's a bright guy. He's fun to go out to dinner with, he's smart, you know, he's really articulate. I can't stand his work. I think it's the worst I've ever seen. Horrible. But, yeah, you know, he's such he's such a good guy. I really, you know, I really... Cheryl and I went out to dinner with him we were really dreading going out to dinner with him we were like oh man should we cancel Cheryl had a stomachache. I'm like Cheryl cancel. Cancel. She was like no we should and we had the best time. He's such a good dude. He's so bright, you know? You know, I'm gonna go to his thing tomorrow night, you know, cuz I'm just gonna have I mean might as well just stay uptown because I've gotta get out of there at some point anyway. Make my escape to New Jersey so... What did you do all day? What did you do? Today was a lost day, man, for me. We'll hit the adaweb thing and call it a night, huh? I think it should be kind of interesting, you know? I don't care for her which is why I didn't go to oh! I hate her work. Oh I hate it, oh I agree with you complete. Andrea's like, oh I love it, but Andrea's like a real sucker for hype, you know, she's she's real bad with that stuff. But I went to her show yesterday. And I think it's yeah. I think that it's real tired subject matter but it looks good. Right right right. You. Huh, it's so good. I'm glad he's the hell out of there. If I have to see another with no shirt on. If I have to see another guy with no shirt like I could give a fuck. Another blurry photo of a guy with no shirt. Do I really care? Beef is working for me tonight. What in the chicken? Chicken cartilage. The beef is the beef is good. We like that place on uh Lispenard. It's alright. Sure. I think it's pretty good. I think the one on on Walk on West Broadway whatever that is Church I don't know. That's lousy, yeah. It's gone way downhill it used to great. Yeah it used to be incredible. It used to be wonderful yeah. They did a thing on art and the Internet, you know, like that thing Cheryl did at the MOMA. I didn't want to go it but I I I don't know I'm in that biz I should to... yeah of course not. I don't know if it's gonna be so interesting. Have you hung out on the web at all? Ever? Yeah, well then don't go. It's really not not essential. Not required. It's not. John's is kind of required. Grazie, yes. Are you working at that place anymore? We've got to C C it. We've got to C C it. I'm a daily C C'er. Yeah but even so I take soup over there to hang out I mean. It's the only were place I can let Babette it's the only place where I can let Babette run. She loves she loves the C C. She loves it there. Yeah yeah I work in the Cable Building and, you know, the dog can only run in that area, you know, but it's the only area where she can... A boxer. Yeah. She's so sweet. She's seven now. Seven. Seven and a half, yeah. Yeah she's a good dog, Babette. No. What kind of dog like a Pomeranian or something. Yeah she's a great dog I mean she's like every everybody in the universe loves loves you know she's grown up everybody in the universe loves this dog, you know, she's really sort of extraordinary. Even Alix likes her. Thanks. And she's not a Yorkie. Yeah, you know... She's she's gotten real white in her muzzle. Her muzzle's almost all white now. Your dog? How's Max. You pick it up or...? Hey we had a nice talk that night with Steve Ellis, didn't we? Is that his name Steven Ellis? Is that his name Alix? He's a nice guy. Bright. Yeah, I like him, really. Really a neet guy. I never really talked to him before. No no I do but where does he show now? I couldn't give a fuck but he's a nice guy anyway, you know. Had a good talk, you know. Had a... Yeah well he can talk the talk. He's got a DiBennedettoesque kind of vocabulary ‘cuz Steve can talk the talk that's for sure. I don't know. Is he? Does he still go out with Michelle? Hey yeah I want your air conditioner. Yeah. No I want you to give it to me. How much? Aww! Yeah but it like six years ohhhhh! I'm glad your around cause I put that fucking thing in for like the next the last four years, man! And I cut my hands and I bitched and I moaned and I told her... and I told... and I told her I mean you get me lifting things I refuse to lift anything. And I've done favors for you. We're family, you know? We're family, you know, what can you say? One thing I hate doing is is is lifting. Alright. Give me a reduced price. I have no money. I have no money these days. Fuck them! What have you got? Yeah records. Yeah records. I don't think so. Sure. Yeah. I have an enor I have five thousand records and four thousand CDs. I'm a deep addict. What do I have? A piece of shit. That way I hear the music I don't hear the system the the I don't hear the format. So my CDs sound as lousy as my LPs. And I can get the lousiest most scratched up LP cuz I never change the needle on my record player. So for five years it's been wearing out the grooves but it always sounds it all sounds like music to me because I don't hear anything. I bought a five hundred dollar like thing that's got like two cassettes, a tuner, a this a that and the other thing, you know, piece of shit thing you can't even buy them anymore it's the worst it's terrible. I got it when I was hanging out with Gary Simmons. Gary Simmons and I went and bought that thing. It's like five or six years old, you know, but but it allows me to play scratchy records and I don't know the difference between that and a CD. Oh yeah. Oh, it's lousy but I like music so I I hear music I don't hear. I'm no audiophile. I mean I'm not interested. Yeah FMU. We're lo-fi. And I bring those records to the station. I play them. They skip all the time. And they're horrible. Eh, at FMU, we're lo-fi there, you know. So if a record skips, we're FMU. What the fuck? I've never done radio before, you know, everybody's a fucking... they don't like people that have done radio. They they they they encourage people that have never done this shit before. You don't sound like a DJ, you sound like a person. Lot's of um and uh. When was the last time you heard me? He encouraged me to say um in the beginning. He say yeah, you know, cuz I was reading something. Throw that away and just, you know. Ken. Ken Freedman. The station manager, yeah. They encourage you to just swing it you know? Yeah, I'm a lot more confident too. I know I totally know what I'm doing there now. I never knew what I was doing I fucked... Oh now they throw you... Oh no, you go on you're like you miss your cues you fuck up left and right. You're on in the middle of the night, you know, nobody cares. I get a few calls. Very few people call in the middle of the night, you know, most people kick back. Yeah, you know, people listen people listen. You know I mean it's a good thing you're broadcasting in the metropolitan area. There's always gonna be people listening whatever hour there's several thousand people listening at any time. At least, right, if people are calling in that's one thing. But but I don't care I never give out the phone number. I my show's called Unpopular Music so if people call and they complain I'm like so why you complaining? The name of the show is Unpopular Music. You're not supposed to like it. Oh really? This guy calls up last week he's like, hey man, can you play some Velvet Underground? I'm like no. He's, man, but I'm getting evicted from my apartment and I like fuckin need some're out of here, you know. I just just hang up on these people, you know? It' fine it's a trip cuz I'm I'm just like I'm a major for the last week I mean, you know, any spare income I have is spent on on on vinyl and discs. Saturday I went to Tower Records the outlet I spent about seventy bucks. Sunday I spent another twenty. Friday night I, you know, I Friday I probably spent another twenty. No, I'm not really into tapes. Tapes are, no. Tapes are a little more, no, vinyl or CDs. Rarely do I get tapes. What the fuck? You get to share your... we'll let's see you get to share your obsession more than your...yeah, I mean... OK I want one. Come by. I like live there. I like live in your office. Yeah, you know, if it's totally I mean is it really like, is it like stand up? And is there an audience laughing? I told you I don't play laugh tracks. Yeah well, it could be good. I just bought this on Saturday I just bought this like CD of Peter Seller, you know, Pink Panther, Doctor Strangelove Peter Sellers, not the new one? and it's like like a CD of his radio and and and audio work. It's fucking amazing! Well I understand that. I understand that and I I, you know, I mean it's it's just so good. I mean I'll I'll mine that sucker. Yeah. He was really interesting. No no. Yeah the young Peter Sellers. Did Cheryl tell you we went to see Rent? Yeah. What a piece of shit! Oh my god! You knew Jonathan Larson? No no no we knew him too. He was Allan McCollum's nephew. We knew him from the Moondance. Allan introduced me to him at the Moondance. They would send us he used to send us things for his show like Tick Tick Boom and Cheryl and I refused to go because he plastered the fucking city with these Tick Tick Boom posters. I have to say, man, that show was such a fucking piece of shit. It was like like the worst of like like it was like the worst of like Broadway musicals like cheesy cheesy Broadway musicals. Like really bad. Like people describe it as the Hair for the nineties and maybe if I was ten years old I would think that it was groovy the way we thought Hair was groovy. I know you listen to Hair and you like it because it's nostalgic but if you listened to it for the first time at your age you'd think this is a crock of shit I know the Counterculture and this means nothing this does not represent the Counterculture at all in any way, shape, or form. So, this is the Broadway version of like of like the East Village life. And it's it's such a fucking rip-off it's maybe well done for the genre but I but I have very high standards for the genre because I'm like a Kurt Weill fanatic and Kurt Weill added dissonance and added all sorts of interesting things with modern music and and and Larson never, you know, in terms of music there was no experimentation. I mean there was nothing... Hah! I have nothing against the genre, you know, like I said Weill did did I'm an opera freak so that I see musical theater being an extension of opera. I don't have a problem with musical theater but this was just at this point in time to do something so conventional and so, you know, traditional it was really just a like bomb, you know, I mean I mean it was so bad I... Testing. Testing. Here we go again. Side B.