What do you mean refresh it? I always empty my cache. I empty my cache about about every three days anyway. Yeah, that’s true. I I I don’t know, I haven’t had a problem with that. It’s weird it picks my mail up every day as I need to. But anyway, I like pine, you know, I really I see you do to. I know you do I I could tell by the style of your mail. I love hitting that Control K and cutting my lines and. Who is it? Klinkostein? Or he’s just pr or is he cute? Is he cute? Well it well that’s right. Well, if he was cute. Well, that’s true Alix Alix took care of that with the new guy though. He’s cute and he’s nice. But, yeah yeah that’s important. Claudia how is your boyfriend cute or not really? What does he do? Of? Oh, I like them. I like the Dewars. I no I do because and you’re gonna understand this. I love that one with the uh uh with the men’s group because of my dad. Our our parents are both New Age, yeah. Our our parents are our fathers are both New Age and that one hit me right. I like that. No, I like those ads I think. Well, wait did he come what does producing mean do he what does producing mean? Did he come up with the concepts? So he’s he’s so somebody comes up with the concepts and he makes it happen. But I think they’re really ironical. I don’t think, right. I don’t think that they’re I don’t think that they’re I don’t that they’re I don’t think they’re misogynist because I think they’re just amazingly ironical. What do you do you agree? Do you think they’re. I actually think they’re kind of no, you hate them. I kind of think they’re funny, I don’t know I mean they’re just another world. They’re they’re not part of. So much Unix do you know for your gig. No no I you know more than me. I mean it it you actually have to be have have a Unix prompt open. Well the question. Yeah, I know but who wants to who wants to. Listen this is such a good question. I know I do it all the time what do you mean you tell me you can’t telnet to Panix? I telnet, yeah. I learn the net through Unix completely. I didn’t I mean I came in. Well, no I before before there was graphical browsers all there was was the Unix shell so how do you... No. No. I I always I start on Z Term, but I mean there was no graphical browser. Well, no, I didn’t we talk about this? It’s just like DOS? Did I tell you this. No but I worked on the no no I was trained in AutoCad. It’s only as DOS platform. So, it’s like, oh yeah, like Unix, oh yeah, it’s just like DOS, got it. I mean, that’s easy but DOS is easy. Well, just hook me up. I mean, but we know how to get around in these environments. I like them. I like Unix. Yeah, it’s easy, yeah. I well listen, we’re Mac we’re Macintosh, so obviously we believe in that. Yeah, but were you Windows before? Yeah yeah yeah. I um, right, so when I so when I learned the Web there was not even, I mean, there was some primitive version of Mosaic but I wasn’t gonna bother so I had to learn, you know, it did. I think everybody who works on the Web should manually learn how to FTP through Unix. It’s easy and it’s sort of satisfying and then and then sz it back down to your desktop. I mean, yeah, sure. rz it up to your desktop. I mean I still I still do that and wherever I am I know that I can do this but I have a question for you. Can I turn my Macintosh into a Unix box? Can I actually learn is there some way that I can actually learn Perl on my Mac with my dialing in? No I won’t telnet, I’ll just Z-Term. But without paying the phone bills. For what? I have telnet I telnet well you have I telnet to, uh, 2 6, yeah, right. Yeah and then work on Panix yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, well sure. I know I wish there was something that I could do that would actually make it function like that. I could. Here’s my idea. I know. Yeah, no no no. Yeah, but I wish there was like I could double click on a program and it would open up a program that would emulate, um, Unix so I could learn programming easily on my machine without tying up my phone line and paying phone bills. My phone bills are enormous every month. I can’t stand it. You don’t pay phone bills at your job but I pay commercial phone rates and if I hang out on the phone for like, you know, forever it it starts to really add up. 6 oh oh yeah. Yeah. Hmmm hmmm hmmm. One. I can only afford one. I really what we pay between home and my office and Cheryl’s studio for fucking phone, I mean really it’s like 300 dollars. It’s insane. So, I mean I can I can. Oh, I can’t start with that, I mean that the the I’ve heard it’s just an absolute nightmare. And it’s and ISDN I was noticing that at your your ISDN. I wasn’t that fast, yeah. ISDN’s real expensive, it’s a real hassle to put in, it’s a real cost to get put in. If I can get some kind of big gig, you know, I’d do it if, you know, it’s, you know. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Um, I think 28.8 28.8 moves alright. I don’t I don’t really have much of a problem. You know, hmm, I still, you know, I mean... What the ISDN? What is the startup? It’s really. Oh, that’s not that’s not that much. It’s, uh, you know, that wouldn’t kill me. Yeah yeah. You know I can look into it I mean I’ve got guys knocking on my door at the Cable Building try asking me about ISDNs I’ve always said no no, you know, people are always looking for that. Yeah. I don’t know, I’m like... yeah, I am. Yeah, I’ve got plenty to do I’m maintaining like 6 site and, you know, it’s just you know what I’ve learned with the web thing is like a site you’re married to a client. It’s a long term thing. I’ve actually turned down jobs because I didn’t really like the people because, you know, like you’ve got to maintain these things, you’ve got keep them up it’s always a constant, yeah, you’ve got to fix it when it breaks. You know, but maintenance is where I can make my money. I have my favorite server is called Crocker Communications. You’ve never heard of them. They’re in they’re in somewhere in Massachusetts I don’t even know where but they’re terrific, they’re so good. So cheap. Fifty dollars a month buys a domain name and unlimited space. And they are lovely, I mean they I’ve never worked with a server, uh, with a provider that is, um, you know, as reliable or as sweet or as wonderful as these people. I love them. And I’ve worked I’ve worked with a lot of different providers. Yeah yeah well actually I have a guy here in New York that I’m working with now. In a guy, um, he’s in New York. He’s running a Mac server. That’s fun. I can I can Timbuktu in which is interesting. And I can pull his desktop up on to mine. Have you heard of this? Yeah, you can pull his desktop and I can open his files, I can open run his programs on my desktop. It’s actually really sort of interesting. But, yeah, um, these people that I work with the Unix server up there they’re they’re terrific. I put everybody I can onto them. They’re just great. I have a scripter there. My scripter’s at Crocker. I have clients in L.A., clients in Western Massachusetts, I have clients in Upstate New York, you know, it doesn’t matter. I mean this is this is the best thing about this thing. It’s totally non-geographical. I mean, I adore it. I I I adore this. I like not not not having to go somewhere, you know, every day. And these people I work for are crazy. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with them. No no there’s so much, I mean, there’s so much to learn. You wanna go? You wanna take me to one? Let’s go. When do we wanna go? When’s the next one? I like Daniel, yeah. Let’s do it, no I mean. I also I mean, it’s so many people who are so isolated. I mean basically we’re not talking you guys are in a really, yeah, it’s one one over. Uh, we should pro, I I, Cher we should probably call it a night. I think we’re the same. Claudia, how about you are you heading out? Yeah, yeah. We’re we’re in the hip hip, what is it? The hip cyber area code? In your your article. Did you see Andrea. 10012. Yeah, what are you guys up there? Well they said you’re cool too. Anyway, I I wanna go so let me know. No the thing I was saying is we’re all you guys are not isolated cause you’re working I was talking to Claudia. So because you work at home you have been I’ve been working at home, I mean we’re like a like a lot of people that are just I’m alone all day in my office, you know, doing kind of doing web stuff from Massachusetts to Los Angeles so that what she’s talking about is good, you know, kind of real contact. You guys you guys met through one, right? Was that fun? I don’t know, Viv, do you think he’s cute? Mateo. Claudia? I wanna Paki. I wanna eat there and then we’ll go up and pick up Bets. OK? So, Daniel, how can we get in touch with you at...? How can how can we be in touch with you? Oh, you got his card. OK, good. And you have my I gave you I gave you one of those, yes, the Ubu, the UbuWeb. The big one the big one, yes. Yes. So, nice to meet you finally in the flesh. Be in touch. Let me know let me know. Let me know what’s going on. Keep, yeah. I’m here. Yeah. Yeah. Or or if you want to, um, yeah give a buzz if you wanna chat or anything or, you know, just see what’s going on. OK, have fun. It’s good. It’s OK. So have fun moving in. When do you move in? And you’re really gonna get moving on this, like, immediately? Cool. Alright, shall we? We’re heading south, where are you headed. OK, I’ll see ya. OK. Goodbye, honey. We’re flying south. I’m glad we I’m glad we did this. This was better this was our own Cybersuds. This is better. We got to meet Daniel. No, this is Daniel. No, this is not Alex, no. Alex is other guy. Alex is. Beth Beth Beth. See ya. I’m gonna I’m gonna email you email me the trick. And tell me when that next thing is. Yes. Yeah, let’s hang out or something. I’m around. OK. Ay, you know? Even even extracurricular activities, let’s go get a drink or something hang out. OK. Bye Alex. Uh, Kevin, Kevin. Yeah, so let’s be in touch. I’ll check this thing out. I’m actually I work I work in. Bye, you guys. So, uh, I’ll see you around the hood. I work in the Cable Building, which is Broadway and Houston above the Angelica yeah yeah yeah, so I’m I’m constantly. OK, I have a dog that I’m attached to constantly. I have a, seriously, yeah I’ve got this great boxer that’s that’s like nailed glued to me. Are you looking for, what, html or? Well, go go look at those U go to that site look at URLs I designed them and conceptualized them, though there’s not any programming, any real sort of Java or anything on them, but I’m not a programmer. I’m a designer and a, so there you go. OK, have a look. OK you guys, have a good dinner. Bye Andrea. Andrea I don’t Andrea when’s the next event? I’m not. I’m gonna... Is there is any, wait a minute is there any is there any news about, uh, Roberta Smith. You better you better check that paper, hon. Andrea’s a curator. It was unbelievable. Andrea, when does your show close? You should go see Andrea’s show. It’s very cool, yeah yeah. See, you it’s another context. But I think Daniel would appreciate it. Give him give him the, um, the concrete URL. It’s Christopher St. Oh, Andrea, what do you think of the new bookstore that opened up next to Kim’s Video. It’s interesting. It’s interesting they’re good. It’s, uh, the Kim’s Video on the West side. They’ve got a place they’ve got a place down here on, uh, on West Broadway and, uh, it’s it’s there’s lots of good stuff there. There’s a big Wittgenstein biography there for about five bucks. I’m gonna go and pick one up. Bye. Andrea Andrea did you check out any of the my, URLs that I, uh, forwarded you? There’s some, it’s very hot. Oh, no no forget Bad Puppy. We’ve we’ve bypassed it. This is this is, uh, Chris’ top five of the web. Bye. Well that was good. We made connection connection. I mean it seems like there’s plenty o work. I’m telling you, Cheryl. When work comes in we’ll we’ll be doing it together. Yeah yeah no. I mean I mean that I mean that girl Claudia seems just kind of dopey but she’s got major major line on work for. Well, no no she’s not dopey, I mean, she’s really corporate, I mean, yeech, I can’t stand her. She looks like a, she looks like one of the Little’s friends. I mean like that that style is just intolerable. But she’s got so much work. And she has nobody to do it. And and, you know, this could this could be... This is a place to go have a drink. Uh, it’s wet. Wet paint. I think this is a nice looking place. Somebody said they didn’t like it. Can we see a menu? Do you serve lunch. This might have been a nice place to come with my mom tomorrow. But they don’t they’re not serving lunch until next week. Is she here is she here every night? Yeah it really looks gross I mean it’s a bad scene and really expensive for food that you can get on Atlantic Avenue for 5 dollars I mean, it’s insane, really. Hold on a sec I’ve got to see something. I think I have the wrong setting on here. Hey we’re just finishing we just finished but those guys are just over at Walker’s. You know where Walker’s is? That’s where those guys are. Where’s your card? Where’s your card to see these sites that you’ve done. Westport. Did you come all the way down from Westport for this? It’s one of these. That’s ours. We do art sites. Yeah, have a look, it’s fun. I’ve seen you’re on the WAC list, right? Yeah, these mailing lists, they’re insane, huh? Yeah, just putting them into, putting them into, right into. Is that Eudora the full version or is it Eudora light. Does Eudora light do it? How do you set that up? Under filters, OK. So, go check these guys out over there. OK. They’re there. We’ve gotta meet some friends downtown. Nice to meet you. Hey, you know, this accomplished it, even if you only meet a few people. Yeah no I mean that Daniel said oh we’re looking for people Andrea said, you know, I mean, uh Claudia really needs mucho work and. Uh, I don’t know I think html stuff, you know, and this kind of thing I don’t know design, I’m not sure whatever it is we’ll do it, uh, you know, no it’s good, Cher, you know, even if you just met a few people it’s a good it’s just a good thing to be out and around. I like Viv. She’s very nice, isn’t she? She’s very cool. Yeah yeah, I mean what the heck I mean I I learned it and it’s nothing you couldn’t learn. I have a feeling that like a lot of this stuff is going to be is going to be, you know, it’s not Site Mill, I mean you have to really I mean a lot nine nine tenths of it’s gonna be BBEdit putting in tags by hand things like that. Well, it’s not hard, I mean it’s, you know, it it it. It isn’t hard. Yeah, it isn’t hard. So, uh, I like Viv she’s really nice, isn’t she? She’s very cool and really funny and I mean that Claudia was I mean she’s just bizarre for such a young girl, I mean, she’s such an old woman for such a young girl. She’s like 20 she’s gotta be like 25 or something and she just has copped this style that’s so she looks like some old art collector or something. She’s in advertising, she’s just like totally corporate, you know, it’s just all corporate but, you know, hey, you know, work is work, right, and uh, I guess that’s what that was all about. I think it was a good thing we went. It’s not what I really felt like doing but it’s a good thing we went. I like Benjamin. He’s really nice, isn’t he? He’s a funny guy. He’s cute. I like his whole attitude is so dopey and sweet. Yeah. OK. I I would think you like that. I’d love to hear you speak French you just start wailing you just start going and you got you understood everything she was saying to him? He was nice too Daniel, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Look, Cheryl, you know what? I got news for ya. We’re artists and this is just a fucking, you know, this is just a, you know, yeah this is just a job, you know, I mean our real focus is on our work and on, you know, each other and that’s that’s where it’s at of course, I mean who cares about programmers? Programmers are the stockbrokers of the 90s. You know? They are. I mean programmers, it’s stupid shit. Who gives a fuck? But. It is, yeah. Did you get a corporate vibe from that Knitting Factory thing? Yeah, embarrassing. I’ll bet you get I’ll bet you get the same food as you got up at that place. Yeah yeah. Well wait till we go to Greece and we try the food. I’m I’m really looking forward to that we’ll we’ll really get some good stuff. Yeah yeah. Definitely definitely. Claudia. Is that Claudia. No it’s Cindy, Cindy. I mean there’s nothing to sort of feel bad about like oh, this guy’s from MIT. I mean, you know, he’s a fucking programmer, you know? I mean the man is a computer programmer. But he seemed like a nice guy nonetheless I mean no and Andrea and him off for dinner. That was good. You know, until she starts to castrate him. It’ll be great for the first week until she starts to say you’re so young. Wow, it’s crowded in here tonight, isn’t it? Sure, I guess so. Hello. How you doing tonight? Good. We’re gonna stay, eat here tonight. Do you are you hungry Cheryl? OK, we have some mixed vegetable and what’s this one? This is potato. And this is... What’s this one? I love that I want do you do you want to order first? Do you want any bread. Do you want any bread? We’ll have one nan. Why don’t we share one nan? It’s nice it’s nice to have. Right here. And I will have, um... It’s OK it’s OK, we’ll share this table with you. Please, please. No no no, please, please. It’s OK. That was for Cheryl and for Kenny, OK, uh, actually some of these vegetables, oh I’m sorry rice, lots of rice. I need rice. Same same same as her. That’s it. Some shag. And a little bit of the chicken, uh, yeah I love that, it’s so good. OK, and we got one nan coming? Great. Oh. OK, I’m I’ll be right back. Are you waiting? You’re next? OK, I’ll come back. Someone’s in someone’s in the bathroom? You next? Is he waiting for the bathroom? OK, I’ll come back. Thanks. Grazie.