Where? Where is it going? Really? Cool, cool. I knew I saw something of yours around. That's good. What else? Anything else? Good-bye. Good to see ya. Well, I'd like to. I'll see you soon. Bye Susan. So good. The last and also you did this big party that I wasn't able to make it across the street from my office. And how was that, was that fun? Like a Saturday night with DJs and everything? Where at HERE as part of the as part of the show with Melissa? That was where you had that party? No. Yes it is. Put me on your mailing list so we know about these things. Do you have our address through Ellen or..? Do you do mailings or not really? Yeah, let us know. Let us know. All right. I'll see you soon, OK?... Testing. Testing. Testing. Testing. Again. One two. One two. One two. What's more... please, please. Once more hello. Fresh batteries... batteries. Boar is off please come in... fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. This is awful I guess I'm going to have to talk like this. Well, it seems like the mic is dead... diddle... yeah this is a test. I don't know if this can hear me or not. This is another test and I'm not sure whether this can hear me or not... How you doing? I'm going to Greenwich Avenue between 12th and Bank please. Uh, no go to 6th Avenue and go up to Greenwich and make a left. And we'll just go up Greenwich until we find it. Cause I'm not sure where, I think yeah it's got to be towards what do you say towards the end of Greenwich there? Yeah, might as well, it's easiest. Thanks. Uh, I let's see we're going to between Bank and 12th. OK? So, let's see, yeah between 12th 12th Street and Bank so yeah it's up a bit. Yep, it's 93 Greenwich. So, we'll we'll find it. It's somewhere up here. Yeah, so we'll just go up to 93. Yeah, no I'm sure it is. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm just gonna hoof it, man, just just give me change for six. It just I'm running late. All right. Thanks. All right. Hi, how you guys doing? Sorry getting over here was like a nightmare. I had to yeah yeah, what can I say? Yeah, I figured I was gonna get some shit from you people. I had to get out of the cab and walk over here there the traffic is so awful. Yeah yeah. Sorry? I think the cabbies make too much money it cost me like seven dollars to get over here from Houston and Broadway. Old fashioned, huh? Oh, it was my grandmother's 85th birthday today. Gotta look good for Grandma, yeah. Wow, there's a name from the past. Where did you guys go? Oh, where does she have an opening? Ah. How was it? They're back on Renwick Street now? They're back in that old loft where they started? I haven't been over too. Yeah. It's where Paul Bloodgood had his loft used to have his loft shows over there up the stairs and they had that really really great roof area with that amazing view? 79-80? 34, 35, 36? Cause I went to, uh, Metro. It was nice, yeah. A little shticky but it's uh, you know, I mean he's just really riding that border between kind of schmaltz and kind of expo curio stuff especially the little dolls he's got a piece downstairs with like 5 little dolls with projected heads it's like I you know. Right right right. He's really riding an edge there. It can go either way I think. Yeah, but Weg but Wegman just, you know, right if he. Right right. Yeah, right but no I mean the videos were clearly great and the get get rid of the dogs, Bill! They like dogs but get rid of them. So I kind of, you know, I had some problems with it I mean, they're really nice objects these eyes. They're big they're, uh, cylinders like, you know, about that size and they've got his projections on it but what he's done is he's gotten very close up to just photograph and eye. And it's also sort of interesting cause video's generally so flat it actually wraps around. They're they're they're spheres with eyeballs projected on to them and they're very they're really... it was noisy upstairs I don't think there was a soundtrack and the eye, you know, it was a human eye so it was constantly moving and flickering and looking every which way. They're very creepy and sort of powerful at first and the after, like, the 15th one in the gallery and there's a gallery of all eyeballs and it's all dark, um, which the all dark sometimes, you know. Yeah, so I mean I think, you know, the upstairs gallery falls on the side it's OK the downstairs gallery is like little dolls cheesy, you know, expo. You know, people you know, they're intrigued they like it. It's very accessible, so. It was pretty pretty crowded. I saw a lot of people I knew. I, it's very, good. The work looks great, yeah. Somebody nobody ever heard of but I think he's really kind of a great, in his own way he's a great artist. Cheryl can't stand it but I mean it's somebody who's so far off the beaten track. At Luise Ross. A gallery you've never heard of an artist you've never heard of but I the show looked really good, you know, it's really... No, I think there's, no I really I really do think there's more to it than just symbols. Yeah, it's just you being cynical. Symbols cynical. I like I like it. So, how long a wait do they say we have here? There's one of these papers that I actually kind of like. One of these cheesy West Side ones that actually, you know the one has the one that has the like Harper's Index on it? The Harper's Index thing is actually no actually I think it's called the Westsider? Of all of them I think it's the most interesting. Cheesy is a great one, man. Fromage, supreme. No, isn't it? It it really it's it's so good. You guys live right near here sort of. Are you go come here you like this place? Huh, well, how did how did we discover it? The cheesy, uh. Oh, was this written up? Oh, no wonder why there's a wait. No wonder there's a wait. Last last Friday there was a... I don't know it. No. Really, I've never been to Mexico, have you? Is it great? We've got to go. I know, I can't I we've been to Tijuana I like your shoes, they're very cool. Cheryl, look at these shoes. Aren't they lovely? Where did you get them? My wife this big black lady in Penn Station with like 16 kids comp complemented Cheryl on her shoes today. She was like, yeah, is that right? The artworld the the the the big black lady world coming back from the circus with her kids. Never never the twain shall meet except in Cheryl's feet. You see, Cheryl, it's the the bi-tonal color on those. The brown and the white. Right right. The brown and the white are attracted. We went to this thing called Cybersuds the other night which was at the Knitting Factory which was an Internet kind of networking kind of party thing. Exactly. You've never seen a bunch of uglier guys in your life. The only uglier are the listeners at WFMU. Ken Ken Freedman said it's flypaper for fuck ups. The radio station. I'm like, why am I there? So Cy... Cybersuds was like like. Cybersuds was totally white. It's so white, it was so weird. It was so, right. Oh, I'm still hungry. I'm glad I didn't have to wait too long. You know, you know it was. Oh, now you know how it feels, daahling. She's the worst. I'm always on time. I'm always on time. I'm stuck on being there on time. Cheryl's horrible. Grandma had like a lot of something on today, like, rouge or... She got a little pleasure in life. Too much Manischewitz. No, I poured her the biggest fucking vodka ever. It was a sick glass of vodka. Those old people can, like, Uncle David too. Uncle David who looks like he really looks like he's embalmed. He's got that leather. He's very pale. He looks dead. They can really suck this stuff down. Speaking of which, I'd like a beer. What a nightmare. It sounds like a soundtrack, doesn't it? It sounds like a really bad soundtrack. Yeah, no no. You're right. Nice color green though back there. It really does. It's very duji. See the what? Uh, blah blah blah... Suffer. What do you have that's veg for these guys? I guess... Hey what am I thinking of those things that, oh, tamales. Do you have them? For main course? He what? Me too. No, no really, Stefano. Hey did I tell you how nice you look tonight? I love your shirt. We're getting better. We're getting better. I like those tamales. He is thin. You know you look great you know you look so thin, Stefano. I've been meaning to tell you that. He doesn't put weight on. Yeah but he doesn't put weight on. Like. So what is he, 140 now? I was like 180, 185. I was I was about 40 pounds heavier than I am now. I looked like cousin Julie. I was at one of these places with Bill Arning. Do they have one on, uh, Hudson Street? Do you have is this do you have one of these places on Hudson Street? What, you do? It's the only one. Yeah, we'll all we'll all grab them. I like canned beer. I really do. Really? Yeah I yeah I don't know. You know, I've gone from like from like being one of those kind of microbrewery beer lovers like. Can I bother you for some jalepeo? It's the only one. Yeah, we'll all we'll all grab them. I like canned beer. I really do. Really? Yeah I yeah I don't know. You know, I've gone from like from like being one of those kind of microbrewery beer lovers like. Can I botherken. Light beer tastes it's I can't drink anything darker than this anymore. Do you like those microbreweries? Have you guys been to Republic on Union Square? Isn't that place neat? It's like so it's like so totally stylin' and, yeah, and the food is good. We like the models. Yeah, yeah. So wait a minute so here's a toast to both you guys to a great success of the show and great partnership. Congratulations to you guys. Great show. C'mon Stefano. Get your goddamned chip out of there, you know? You go awwww! Yo! Nice grab! Did you intend to do that? That was very nice. You're a ball player. That was unbelievable. Wait how many, how many are there? Too much primary. What is it? What are you gonna eat? What is this? Do you like Lupe's? Why don't you like it? When it was down below 14th? It was good. Yeah, I don't think it's not nearly as interesting as it used to be. Yeah, me neither. The last time I went it was just, yeah, really downhill, yeah. Used to be a storefront, yeah. You ever go down to West Side Coffee Shop? On Church they used to, yeah yeah. It's so close to the gallery, yeah. Did you order enough food or not? Yeah, no they're small. How big are these tamales? They're small? I'll have I'll have, uh, veracruzano tamale a chicken tamale, is that enough? Is that that's not enough. No no no no no they're small you said, right? We don't know the portions, you see, we've never been here. Right well and if I right. OK. How about a side of rice and beans. Will that do it you think? OK, and a and jalepe enough?h yeah yeah. If I'm hungry we'll get some more. So what did Michael Joo do tonight? More. I never thought Michael was like a particularly interesting artist I mean I always thought he was somebody who was trying to find his voice. I like that. I thought the video was good. He's such a nice guy, right? You like him? Is he cute? I agree with you. I didn't recognize I didn't even recognize him at your opening. No, with the long hair. Yeah, he was at your opening. I didn't even recognize him at your opening and I'm like he's like, hey, how you doing I'm like hi how you doing I didn't even know who it was. Is it? Is it? Are we gossiping or what? All right, I'll stop there I have more information for you but I won't tell you. No no no. Is she nice? What part of them before her? You know I think it was the book. Do you know her? But you know her. Yeah. How do you feel about her? Do you like her? Really, I think she's really crazy. Did you and Cheryl have that talk already? Oh, yeah, Cat. Right, I like Cat, yeah. She's she's like really insecure and she's always flattering too much and she's flirting too. Flirty. I don't know you that well. I think she's a lesbian. I think she's a lesbian. No, I mean, everybody's everyone's experimented. Very dark hair. Short, about Cheryl's size, dark eyes, dark hair. Kind of a little pinched features. Sort of about down to here sort of sets a little bit. Who is that? Alix she's kind of quiet and she's kind of kind of cool and she takes a long time to warm up to. Right right. Um, Andrea not Alix. I'm sorry not Andrea. Alix is right. I'm thinking of Alix. Anyway, what I heard what I heard what I heard didn't live up to my image of Michael who I think is really sexy. The reality was different I heard. Yeah. Well, now I don't we don't know when this occurred. I like Roddy. He's so nice, yeah. Oh, I know Helen. Sure, we all used to work for Allan McCollum back in the day I like Helen, sure. That's how I met Roddy and Helen. Helen and I used to work, like we were getting paid to hang out at Allan's and we would just watch soap operas. She was so funny. I like Helen. Right, right. I like her. So, who else I mean, you didn't know Mary Jo Marks from the Graduate Center. I mean I remember Mary Jo went out to dinner with us but were you friends with Allan? I worked for Allan for years. I like him, actually I really like Allan. Well, he is I mean I would never want to be involved with him. Do you know Rich Leslie from the Graduate Center? Yeah, yeah. He's a nice guy a little fat a little beard. Do you know Jennifer Borum from that group? So, OK, I know your whole group there. You know you know Michelle White? Yeah. Pasty and white and weird. She's terrible. Now, let's dish now. Oh, I'll be I know her. Do you know do you know Monica Amor? I like Monica. She neurotic. I don't know you think she's bright? I think so. I was in the show that she put together in Caracas. Yeah, Caracas connection. I went to like her mother her mother's house. Oh, her parents are just lovely, actually. They're Spanish. Is she pretty? I don't think so. She's sexy but she's not pretty. She gets these guys but. No, she doesn't do it for me either. You should have seen the guy she's going out with who's this this son of a diplomat. He was just gorgeous, I mean he was very pretty. Yeah, she's got the money, she's got the style. She doesn't do it for me, she just doesn't do it for me. So I know your whole group from the Graduate Center. Jennifer Borum, she's nice. I do know the name, I'm sure I know her. Who? The name is familiar. Kim? I may that may be everyone I know at the Graduate Center. God, She's been there forever, hasn't she? Is she going out with anyone now? She's pretty. I think she's pretty but I have to be honest, I find her sad. I find her sad. I've known her for so long, you know, I've known her for ten years and I've sort of ten years ago I really thought she was somebody who was really she was working this power position at Castelli she's doing this real intellectual thing she's very bright and I thought she was really kind of gonna go for it and become a major player of some import somewhere. And like like ten years later she's still kind of, like, struggling. I know, but I would have thought that she I mean she I used to think that she was going to be very powerful. Yeah yeah. Well she used to have that kind of cold front but now that's kind of fallen off a little bit she used to have that I'm I'm I'm important front. Uh, basically. Was that a good group? She should be, I mean, I always thought he he cheated on her all the time. Oh no, I mean, honestly. No, it gets complicated, it gets very with personalities that we all know. Well, he was actually a nice guy to work for. You ask anybody who's ever worked for him. He was, you know, he treated his workers well. What can I say? Oh yeah? What's she doing? Oh yeah, we're dishing. Her. I think she's gay. I I think I think she's a lesbian. Really. No, the new cat. No no she moved to a new place and she's got a new cat. She's got a new cat. No like a woman that she's like she's completely bonded with and is in love with. Right right right. No, she wasn't. She was defending Claudia. She was defending Viv, kind of more dikey. Oh this is a little Total NY girl, ohhhhhh God. All right Stefano. Is she is she sexy on some level? I've heard, I mean I've heard from those who have actually been there that she's actually got a great body. No no no I mean I've talked to gym gym friends. I used to always ask Cheryl... No, but we no but the rumor was that we we both think he's very sexy Michael but it didn't live up to the to the, uh, visual experience of Michael.