========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:36:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think perhaps some "attitude" was spawned from the line: "But most *poets* really don't got much...." I could only assume that the emphasis was on "real" poets. But we have been around this class bush repeatedly, as someone pointed out. I think Allen Bramhall's post was a call to action, and practical action at that: If there are 700 people on the list & everyone gives $1.00 (minus, perhaps 10 or so people who don't have a dollar to spare), then we have 690 more than Cid started out with. If people who can spare five do, and those who can spare twenty do, etc., well then, that'd be a tidy sum. And an admirable social project. Those who can't, can't, and needn't. Is there an address where we can send a check? ---------- > > As someone who's lived plenty close to the poverty line over some decades, > i find the tone of some of these posts (not having extra money is > "carping") a bit peculiar, not to say weird.... Do these folks live in the > same universe as me/ (or more to the point, the same social system??) > > --Mp > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:03:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Japanese borrowings / Tony Green MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit had to reformat this message. Chris -- From: "Tony Green" Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:40:36 +1200 Thinking of Japanese Surrealism: is there really something ~essentially~ Japanese about cultural borrowing on large-scale not having much sense of the ~original intentions~ of what is borrowed. I cannot presently think of any such anywhere. Put it down to usual process of translation or appropriation. --- in the land of incessant cultural borrowings Tony Green ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:46:23 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mark, We DO live on the same planet. Twenty dollars was an arbitrary figure I cldn't (easily) afford either. The point is elsewhere - money is secret. So what gets done with it remains to be judged on the basis of what is produced by the spending of, which seems like a very false sort of objectivity - where did the money come from? Who is the spending of it for - will we be living under a certain kind of roof or umbrella because of it? Or the really Big question, who is money for? If for all, then how come so many have far less than those who have more? Or did I answer my own question with the word that comes just now to mind, scarcity? The idea that there's only so much of anything, and no more beyond than what can be taken, legally or not, from those who would so easily or unknowingly let it go. Strange, I agree, valorization running parallel to legal increment so that in some end, nothing will be free. & ONLY nothing. S E ps, strange, too, to find this addendum, written to a longer initial response, appearing on the List, while the first pc didn't ... is that censorship or just plain ineffectual smarts before the blinking panel? >From: Mark Prejsnar >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: more power to the affluent poets >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:20:20 -0400 > >Welll. There seem to be lots of folks on the list who are certain just >how affluent others are... I do know many people who cannot spare $20 for >cid corman, if they are going to have the bills pd and a modicum of >groceries. Then there are the many folks who cdn't do it without dropping >support they are giving to a poetry publication (which would cause the >ceasing of that publication). And as i'm working class and a socialist, >there have always been plenty of folks i know who have commited themselves >to paying dues or support to a political party or a union...and that again >is not something you take on lightly: it involves the ultimate >possibility of hope for all of us. > >A benefit project sounds nice, and those who are in a position to donate >the labor, creativity and capital, should certainly do it.. (but i didn't >dis that idea, to begin with, obviously...) > >As someone who's lived plenty close to the poverty line over some decades, >i find the tone of some of these posts (not having extra money is >"carping") a bit peculiar, not to say weird.... Do these folks live in the >same universe as me/ (or more to the point, the same social system??) > >--Mp > >On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Stephen Ellis wrote: > > > "Really don't got much" means how much, exactly? We're all a bunch of > > carpers, the whole human race, when it comes to money. That you (we) >don't > > have much goes without saying; on a more positive note, how much, in >fact, > > do you (we all, any of us) actually have? If > > > > everyone on the List contributed $20 to Corman or any -thing or -body >else, > > who - aside from those who would insist FOREVER that "they really cld't > > afford it" - really CLDN'T afford it? It's weird, > > > > trying to get money from others for projects thought up by others than > > themselves. Deconstructive resolve only goes so far (one step forward >and > > two steps back forever toward the outstretched hand, it seems); the >Virtual > > Person we all rely on to invisibly come through when the rent's due, >when > > you're the man who owes $532 on his gas bill, when there're no onions in > > sight, balks immeasurably when faced with the semblance of simple >friendship > > involved in a mutualist ensemble of quantifiable grammar (to be >published), > > because somebody in the end is gonna have to pay, and friendship's >s'posed > > to be free, shit, > > > > so let's all go home and do our singular art. Alone. > > > > S E > > > > > > > > >From: Mark Prejsnar > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: Re: social conformity vs Cid Corman > > >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:27:51 -0400 > > > > > >This seems a pretty lame response to the Corman thread. Does this >poster > > >have any idea how much extra disposable income the various folks on the > > >thread HAVE? i guess he has plenty, from the assumptions he makes. >But > > >most *poets* really don't got much.... > > > > > > > > >On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, A H Bramhall wrote: > > > > > > > Cid Corman needs financial backing so the answer this the poetry > > >community > > > > reaches is to write letters? well that's a complicated enough >reaction. > > > > (Great Pan Is Dead!). wouldn't money, the famous greengrab stuff, be > > >more > > > > effective? not to fetishize money but the figurative BUCK is being > > >passed > > > > here when a real one could be passed to someone who needs it. if >that's > > >the > > > > point here: I'm beginning to wonder. is my logic too deep? >statements > > >about > > > > community have resounded here recently but that's just yack for the > > >cheap > > > > seats. community means exclusive neighbourhood, the usual who's >in/who's > > >out > > > > bullshit power structure. the fuckin Boston scene, the fuckin SF >scene, > > >the > > > > fuckin Philly scene. all just regional fuckin mugwumpism. you don't >know > > > > community from horseshit so name the social club something else. >you're > > > > waiting for someone important to talk to you, some authority, that's > > >all. > > > > well Cid Corman already did. and, by the many accounts given, he is >and > > >has > > > > been a generous man, yet the response to his predicament is to look >for > > >a > > > > government or semi govt teat for him to suck on. charity begins with >the > > > > government... sounds like those poli sci courses wore off. rather >than > > > > barricading yourself in the administration building again, try >sending > > >him > > > > money. if, as I say, that's the point of this exercise. $$$Allen > > >Bramhall$$$ > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:37:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: social conformity vs Cid Corman (addendum) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/31/99 3:08:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stepellis@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << "Really don't got much" means how much, exactly? We're all a bunch of carpers, the whole human race, when it comes to money. That you (we) don't have much goes without saying; on a more positive note, how much, in fact, do you (we all, any of us) actually have? If everyone on the List contributed $20 to Corman or any -thing or -body else, who - aside from those who would insist FOREVER that "they really cld't afford it" - really CLDN'T afford it? It's weird, >> Mr. Ellis's two recent posts (re: ponying up for what one ostensibly "believes" in), along with Mr. Bramhall's Ur post, are the most socially pertinent texts I've seen displayed here in the last six months. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:39:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: St. Petersburg Literary Seminars (summer) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I will be teaching at the next St. Peterburg Summer Literary Seminars (for English speakers/writers). The program is affiliated with the University of Cincinnati (USA) and Herzen University (Russia). Program seminars include: Fiction 1 & 2 Non-Fiction Poetry Playwriting/Screenwriting International Dramaturgy Literary and Philisophical Discourse in St. Petersburg Untranslatable Russia More info at http://www.sumlitsem.com/ -- please take a look if interested. Philip Nikolayev nikolay@fas.harvard.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:29:31 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Welll. There seem to be lots of folks on the list who are certain just >how affluent others are... I do know many people who cannot spare $20 for >cid corman, if they are going to have the bills pd and a modicum of >groceries. Then there are the many folks who cdn't do it without dropping >support they are giving to a poetry publication (which would cause the >ceasing of that publication>--Mp > ,,i agree with the above, but at least if one "gave" in this cause it wouldn't be to get through the eye of the needle, maybe some situation can be put in place where writers who suddenly are found to be in real need could be helped in some way, i dunno,, but as someone who even when budgeting finds two or three days in any week when the house keys is all thats rattling in my pocket i can understand //pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:32:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Re: social conformity vs Cid Corman Comments: To: toddbaron@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all: The publication idea is great. The readings idea is also a good one, but they're physically tiring and unless they pay really well, the 10-14 hour flight from Japan, consequent jet lag, etc. would probably not be worth it. He said as much when the idea was brought up in the past. Cid has been poet-in-residence at Iowa, and other places, and taught for one summer at Naropa. A residency would probably be more attractive to him, simply because it would be less wearing. Cid is certainly capable of speaking for himself, and does have access to e-mail. I forwarded the information to him about joining this list, but I don't think he is comfortable enough with the technology to do it. His e-mail address is available back channel to anyone who has any ideas, leads. etc. I'd be happy to give it out (Cid's given his ok on this), Mr. Philips also has it, and he is, I believe, in the process of joining this list. Happy, too, to give out his snail mail address to anyone who requests it. Todd's welcome to contact Cid Corman directly because I doubt if he will ever chime in. Happy to say that there has already been a helpful response generated from this list, but more people need to act. My advice: there's no need to wrangle: do what you can. If you value Cid Corman's 50 years plus dedication to the work; if you value Cid Corman as a person, please help. Someday you may find yourself in his position. Jesse -----Original Message----- From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 12:03 PM Subject: Re: social conformity vs Cid Corman >I would, sadly, say that the responses to Cid's place in the world have >less to do with Cid than with those making the responses. Poets have >little money ---from their poetry-- there are a few folks who have been >able to get into the game because of family comforts--etc. Also: so many >are teaching right now that perhaps a seris of readings---if Cid >wants'em--would bring him some much needed income. But--als again-Cid >hasn't chimed in here--so it's not of it really about Cid! > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:54:18 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Booglit Reviews: Dale Smith Delivers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed David, A minor correction: Dale Smith's "Arabia Felix" (a terrific short read, I agree) doesn't detail a trip through Ethiopia, as his mention of "Mike's Ethiopian cafe" might suggest. Rather, the mention of "al-Tihama" and "Shara Sana'a" (Sana'a Street) indicate the trip is through Yemen, Sana'a being its capital, & the Tihama, a range of mountains there. Also, chewing "qat" - a leaf that gives a mild sensation of relaxation & heightened awareness - is something of a national pasttime in Yemen, complete with late-morning last-minute bargaining at open markets for a big bunch of the stuff at a good price, to provide a decent means for passing the afternoon and evening. Ie., the good life. Dale in fact shld send a few copies to Mike's Ethiopian Cafe, just so they'll know that he noticed them there while THERE, as well as there later, from here. Best, Stephen Ellis >From: David Kirschenbaum >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Booglit Reviews: Dale Smith Delivers >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:44:55 EDT > >Dale Smith Delivers > >Dale Smith is one of the best editors I know. His work as a coeditor, first >with Mike & Dale’s Younger Poets, and now, with Skanky Possum, always gives >me all the people whose words I want in my bookcase in one compact litzine. >I’ve scanned his postings, but until this past Saturday, had never read his >poetry. >Saturday, a package of two books from Joshua Beckman’s 811 Books (checks >payable to Joshua Beckman/ YWCA/ Writer’s Voice/ 350 North First Avenue/ >Phoenix, AZ 85003) arrived in my mailbox between my trips from the Yankees >game to the tailor. >I read Dale Smith's new book, "Arabia Felix," while walking through my >Chelsea apartment’s backyard, past the playground, down the alley, and to >the drug store to develop some photographs. I finished the book as I >crossed >24th Street on my way by the playground again, and was sad. I never wanted >more pages in a poetry chapbook in my life. In "Arabia Felix," Dale Smith >delivers. (5x7”, 8-page black ink on ivory paper guts, + cover with black >and blue ink and uncredited cover artwork on ivory paper, $3.) >He details an Ethiopian trip, captures little pictures and takes apart his >own self-importance. >Here’s a few lines: > >“Some men gather >to ease the body >of a boy from the hood >of a Land Cruiser, >the glass like ice >on his blood.” > >And after detailing pieces of his visit, he sums it up with: > > “Rats that night >ran under table, >a German tourist told me >‘you have to conquer >each city for yourself.’” > >Dale Smith’s "Arabia Felix" is simply the most beautiful combination of >words and book design I have seen in a poetry chapbook in a long time. > >Be Good, >David A. Kirschenbaum, editor >Booglit > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:05:14 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As a person who knows Steve if he, of all working class people, is willing to donate a jackson to the project that says a lot. Or even some time-- Ideological socialist talk won't put the onions on the plate. Re-emphasis of the "not me" ideology didn't work in the reagonomic period, why should it now? Shoot up or shut up. While I would have the ability to put a selected together, and some of the funds, the time is the main problem here-- no time to put together a benefit-- or the manuscript-- too much on the dinner plate & only one intern. The Perchik collected will be out late cause of time. If someone typed up a manuscript version into e-mail so I could throw it into Quark, I'd be willing. Most of Cid's work would need to be culled from non-electronic sources, the Elizabeth press books, and with Si's work it has been slow going at best. The Morterstag books are beautiful but the paper creates so many scanning errors it is unreal. I'd rather see it get out on the Maine series if Burton is out there. Jesse feel free to pass along the word... Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 05:21:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Douglas Organization: Sun Moon Books Subject: Re: NYC Bookstores Comments: cc: djmess@sunmoon.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit St. Marks buys copies of all Sun & Moon and Green Integer titles. However, they only purchase 1 or 2 copies, and these, of course, are immediately sold. Consequently, it probably is almost impossible to find our poetry there. If only they could be encouraged to immediately reorder. I think it's important that customers speak to the buyers and request a reorder. That is the only way bookstores will change their patterns. Douglas Messerli Michael Walsh wrote: > > Dear Ramez Qureshi, > > St Marks Books (3rd Ave and 9th St) will usually have > Sulfur (and other such periodicals) -- in the back, on > the right, across from the remainders. Their poetry books > are not so good, but they sometimes have some things, > and so might have Swenson. > > Good luck, > Michael Walsh ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:54:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Carnivocal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On my fourth attempt at scoring CARNIVOCAL via General Distribution I was informed that the CD will not be available till sometime in 2000. Could someone backchannel me with info? Bob Holman nuyopoman@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:06:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: Cid Corman (new details) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Here is the latest news, from John Phillips for anyone wishing to help Cid if possible: Dear Burt I said I'd get in touch soon as I had more information on how to send Cid some help. Have been hoping a collection point in the US would be set up, but no go as yet. And since I had word from Cid today saying if anyone wishes to help they shouldn't wait, that things are bad - now - here goes. As said, a cheque isn't that good for anything under $500 (due to $35 charged for cashing). The best method is to transfer cash ( yen if possible) direct to his bank. ( You have the address / details. [i.e., from a previous message: banking details, which he tells me is good for "dollar, yen, or check transfers": Cid Corman c/o Kyoto Shinyo Kinko Bank, Omuro Branch, Omuro Ukyo-ku, Kyoto 616-8208 Japan; account number: 095-0010328; bank tel: (075) 462-9670.] ) For smaller amounts sending cash in perhaps a registered envelope / hidden by carbon paper + Cid's details should do it. So, if you pass word around to anyone, that's what's to be passed. Hope you're well John ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:00:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: KRUPSKAYA READING: FARMER AND FARRELL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" KRUPSKAYA PRESENTS: a reading with Steven Farmer and Dan Farrell Wednesday, September 8, 6-7:30 pm, free San Francisco Main Libray, Civic Center, 100 Larkin Street Please join us. All KRUPSKAYA publications, including Medieval by Steven Farmer and Last Instance by Dan Farrell, will be available at the reading. _______________________________ Jocelyn Saidenberg KRUPSKAYA P.O. Box 420249 San Francisco, CA 94142-0249 jocelyns@sirius.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:53:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: Highwire 9/4 Comments: To: aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jenhopeg@fcis.whyy.org, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lbrunton@epix.net, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@NETAXS.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, outocntxt@earthlink.net, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for your listening pleasure...THIS SATURDAY at HI-G--H--W-I-RE ************************************************ Justin Vitiello / Eddie Berrigan +++++++ these things happen usually every other Saturday at Highwire Gallery, 139 n. 2nd st., 8PM this one in particular is Saturday, September 4 you can bring your own beverage if ya like about them: Justin Vitiello is professor of Italian at Temple University and is a scholar of immigrant history and accomplished interviewer. Eddie Berrigan's new book, _DISARMING MATTER_, was just published by Owl Press and sings darkly, murkily. *********************************** Here are some bites: from Vitiello's "prologue: migrant gamble -pro nobis" our woptrain ground seaboard warps, plumbic beaches and lupus bluffs (ho- stless valleys of Penn Railroad shadows skulking scrofulous vacua: Ball-tee- more New Ark Providence Mystic Full-o'- delphia ************************************* UMBRELLAS Umbrellas are guns in dress. Fold up your umbrella & face up to your death. Surrender your crown & fold it, dirty laundered. Making love to chickenshit authority in one way & using your head to make of it. Falling in love with the magazines. What mistake can we live with now & nothing else shall we fall prey to or pray to misgivings, shielded by a bubble of slave & wonder who is who. Who knows a truth seeks themselves in others & applies it through failures. Umbrellas are encasements, reverse caskets, eyeballs in inverted wastepaper baskets. -Eddie Berrrigan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:45:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lee ann brown Subject: Some Readings (Lee Ann Brown +) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lee Ann Brown Reading and singing her summer poems Wednesday September 1st 6pm-6:30 (Dance troupe earlier) Union Square (outside in park) NYC Barnes & Noble Summer-in-the-Square info: 253-0819 bring your picnic ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Richmond VA Saturday Sept 4th at night 821 Bakery Cafe Coby Batty - poem/ musics (Coby & Watty) + Lee Ann Brown - poems & songs +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sunday afternoon September 12 TRIBES GALLERY 3pm on 285 East 3rd Street BOOK PARTY & READING by LEE ANN BROWN, MERVYN TAYLOR & MARTIN ESPADA info: (212) 674-3778 Steve Cannon ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mark your calendars: Eleni Sikelianos & Lee Ann Brown Women Poets at BARNARD Thursday Oct 7th 8pm Sulzberger Parlor, Barnard Hall Barnard College, NYC (W.116th Street & BW) Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:52:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: poetry, politix and the non-secret of money In-Reply-To: <19990831214625.46864.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I had resoved not to get any more entangled in this.... (i have back-channeled several folks for that reason.) Better to talk more directly about poetry and poetix (i have more than once in the past 3 years been cited by others for dragging the list pretty far into social and political issues...for all that many listians agree that these things are not totally separable from poetix..) But this is so pointedly addressed to me, maybe i should respond.. Five dollars, or 20 dollars, from everyone on the List, would be a stopgap for most families i know who are struggling with very tough economic circumstances. If we lived in a different kind of society, cid corman and family (and various acquaintances of mine, and plenty of folks i don't personally know) would not be in the specific conditions they are in. If i understand the post quoted below, (i'm not sure i do) i can certainly offer a *public* suggestion of political and social formations that could use 5 or 20 dollars from each of us. By opposing capitalism, or at least its worst excesses, they are trying to alter the circumstances we have been talking about. (..main problem with these groups is, they are too eager to integrate themselves into "respectable" society, and often are not opposed to capitalist society as such..reformism always finds its way into a cul-de-sac; but we have to work with what we have) Giving money to specific individuals who need it is a good thing and i don't oppose it..If you can afford it, as many can't, by all means i encourage list members to do it. But if we are talking about being non-secret about money....i believe people's money is more generative if used to further political struggle. --Mp On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Stephen Ellis wrote: > Mark, > We DO live on the same planet. Twenty dollars was an arbitrary figure I > cldn't (easily) afford either. The point is elsewhere - money is secret. > So what gets done with it remains to be judged on the basis of what is > produced by the spending of, which seems like a very false sort of > objectivity - where did the money come from? Who is the spending of it for > - will we be living under a certain kind of roof or umbrella because of it? > Or the really Big question, who is money for? If > > for all, then how come so many have far less than those who have more? Or > did I answer my own question with the word that comes just now to mind, > scarcity? The idea that there's only so much of anything, and no more > beyond than what can be taken, legally or not, from those who would so > easily or unknowingly let it go. Strange, > > I agree, valorization running parallel to legal increment so that in some > end, nothing will be free. & ONLY nothing. > > S E > > ps, strange, too, to find this addendum, written to a longer initial > response, appearing on the List, while the first pc didn't ... is that > censorship or just plain ineffectual smarts before the blinking panel? > > > > >From: Mark Prejsnar > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: more power to the affluent poets > >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:20:20 -0400 > > > >Welll. There seem to be lots of folks on the list who are certain just > >how affluent others are... I do know many people who cannot spare $20 for > >cid corman, if they are going to have the bills pd and a modicum of > >groceries. Then there are the many folks who cdn't do it without dropping > >support they are giving to a poetry publication (which would cause the > >ceasing of that publication). And as i'm working class and a socialist, > >there have always been plenty of folks i know who have commited themselves > >to paying dues or support to a political party or a union...and that again > >is not something you take on lightly: it involves the ultimate > >possibility of hope for all of us. > > > >A benefit project sounds nice, and those who are in a position to donate > >the labor, creativity and capital, should certainly do it.. (but i didn't > >dis that idea, to begin with, obviously...) > > > >As someone who's lived plenty close to the poverty line over some decades, > >i find the tone of some of these posts (not having extra money is > >"carping") a bit peculiar, not to say weird.... Do these folks live in the > >same universe as me/ (or more to the point, the same social system??) > > > >--Mp > > > >On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Stephen Ellis wrote: > > > > > "Really don't got much" means how much, exactly? We're all a bunch of > > > carpers, the whole human race, when it comes to money. That you (we) > >don't > > > have much goes without saying; on a more positive note, how much, in > >fact, > > > do you (we all, any of us) actually have? If > > > > > > everyone on the List contributed $20 to Corman or any -thing or -body > >else, > > > who - aside from those who would insist FOREVER that "they really cld't > > > afford it" - really CLDN'T afford it? It's weird, > > > > > > trying to get money from others for projects thought up by others than > > > themselves. Deconstructive resolve only goes so far (one step forward > >and > > > two steps back forever toward the outstretched hand, it seems); the > >Virtual > > > Person we all rely on to invisibly come through when the rent's due, > >when > > > you're the man who owes $532 on his gas bill, when there're no onions in > > > sight, balks immeasurably when faced with the semblance of simple > >friendship > > > involved in a mutualist ensemble of quantifiable grammar (to be > >published), > > > because somebody in the end is gonna have to pay, and friendship's > >s'posed > > > to be free, shit, > > > > > > so let's all go home and do our singular art. Alone. > > > > > > S E > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Mark Prejsnar > > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > > >Subject: Re: social conformity vs Cid Corman > > > >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:27:51 -0400 > > > > > > > >This seems a pretty lame response to the Corman thread. Does this > >poster > > > >have any idea how much extra disposable income the various folks on the > > > >thread HAVE? i guess he has plenty, from the assumptions he makes. > >But > > > >most *poets* really don't got much.... > > > > > > > > > > > >On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, A H Bramhall wrote: > > > > > > > > > Cid Corman needs financial backing so the answer this the poetry > > > >community > > > > > reaches is to write letters? well that's a complicated enough > >reaction. > > > > > (Great Pan Is Dead!). wouldn't money, the famous greengrab stuff, be > > > >more > > > > > effective? not to fetishize money but the figurative BUCK is being > > > >passed > > > > > here when a real one could be passed to someone who needs it. if > >that's > > > >the > > > > > point here: I'm beginning to wonder. is my logic too deep? > >statements > > > >about > > > > > community have resounded here recently but that's just yack for the > > > >cheap > > > > > seats. community means exclusive neighbourhood, the usual who's > >in/who's > > > >out > > > > > bullshit power structure. the fuckin Boston scene, the fuckin SF > >scene, > > > >the > > > > > fuckin Philly scene. all just regional fuckin mugwumpism. you don't > >know > > > > > community from horseshit so name the social club something else. > >you're > > > > > waiting for someone important to talk to you, some authority, that's > > > >all. > > > > > well Cid Corman already did. and, by the many accounts given, he is > >and > > > >has > > > > > been a generous man, yet the response to his predicament is to look > >for > > > >a > > > > > government or semi govt teat for him to suck on. charity begins with > >the > > > > > government... sounds like those poli sci courses wore off. rather > >than > > > > > barricading yourself in the administration building again, try > >sending > > > >him > > > > > money. if, as I say, that's the point of this exercise. $$$Allen > > > >Bramhall$$$ > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:11:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Press Release: Alan Sondheim - New trAce Virtual Writer-in-Residence (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ALAN SONDHEIM http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/ =20 Brooklyn-based cyber-theorist Alan Sondheim is the latest writer to join the growing band at the trAce Online Writing Community http://trace.ntu.ac.uk He is taking up the virtual baton from trAce's first Virtual Writer-in-Residence Christy Sheffield Sanford, and will be available on the site until March 2000. Sondheim is a poet, critic, and theorist who writes on and about the Internet. His books include Disorders of the Real, and the anthology Being on Line, and during his time with trAce he will be working on a series of collaborative pieces including 'Love and War and Jennifer' as well as running a group of other online projects and conferences on topics like programming code, avatars, cyborgs and experimental writing. In 'Love and War and Jennifer' he urges writers to get involved. "Add your own segments to the story backbone, or add your own webpages on the theme. I imagine a huge accumulation of texts grounding this millennium in the next, working and reading and creating new experiences on the way." Alan is enthusiastic about his new post with trAce. He says "I'm extremely excited to work in an environment that is in the forefront of online culture. The opportunity to work with writers and artists engaged in cultural activity around the world is incredible and amazing to me." Director of trAce, novelist Sue Thomas, is delighted that Alan will be working on the site. "Alan Sondheim lives at the sharp edge of cyberculture today. He digs deep into the net and is never afraid to confront some of the most profound psychological challenges the web can sum up. I'm sure trAce writers will find it fascinating to join him in his explorations." BACKGROUND In 1997 trAce received an Arts Council of England 'Arts for Everyone' Award of =A3365,000 to establish this online community for writer= s and readers in real and virtual space, and since then the organisation has attracted attention from around the world. Its most successful ventures to date include: Community: - WebBoard email conference open 24 hours a day=20 http://hum-webboard.ntu.ac.uk/~trace - weekly online meetings at 21:00 hrs Sydney and again at 21:00 hrs London = every Sunday=20 http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/online/moo.htm - Incubation International Conference on Writing and the Net 10-12 July 200= 0=20 http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/ Writing Projects: - "My Millennium" curated by Virtual Writer-in-Residence Christy Sheffield = Sanford http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sanford/my_millennium/presents.html - Bernard Cohen, Writer-in-Residence http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/cohen/f= ront.htm - Writers' Online Journals=20 http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/journals.htm - frAme Journal of Culture and Technology http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/frame/ - trAced Resources for Writers http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/traced/traced.htm - the Noon Quilt http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/quilt/index.html - the Eclipse Quilt http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/quilt/eclipse/scripts/eqQuilt_te= st.pl - Kids on the Net, the junior section of trAce http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/kotn/= gokids.htm NOTE FOR EDITORS Alan Sondheim is available for interview.=20 He can be contacted at: 001-718-857-3671 (New York) sondheim@panix.com Sue Thomas, Director of trAce, is available for interview.=20 She can be contacted at: +44 (0)115 8483551 (UK) sue.thomas@ntu.ac.uk __________________________________ The trAce Online Writing Community Nottingham Trent University Clifton Lane Nottingham NG11 8NS ENGLAND Tel: ++44 (0)115 9486360 (direct line) Fax: ++44 (0)115 9486364 http://trace.ntu.ac.uk trace@ntu.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:46:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Grant Jenkins Subject: Re: Cid Corman's address In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Burt, John in his latest letter says that we have Corman's address, but I can't find it in the archive. For everyone's benefit, would you please repost that information? Thanks > As said, a cheque isn't that good for anything under $500 (due to $35 > charged for cashing). The best method is to transfer cash ( yen if > possible) direct to his bank. ( You have the address / details. [i.e., >from a previous message: banking details, which he tells me is good for >"dollar, yen, or check transfers": Cid Corman c/o Kyoto Shinyo Kinko Bank, >Omuro Branch, Omuro Ukyo-ku, Kyoto 616-8208 Japan; account number: >095-0010328; bank tel: (075) 462-9670.] ) > >For smaller amounts sending cash in perhaps a registered envelope / hidden >by carbon paper + Cid's details should do it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:26:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets In-Reply-To: <19990831214625.46864.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 2:46 PM -0700 8/31/99, Stephen Ellis wrote: > >We DO live on the same planet. Twenty dollars was an arbitrary figure I >cldn't (easily) afford either. The point is elsewhere - money is secret. Actually, what you're voicing is a middle class value. Working class people (at least the ones I was raised around) are very open about money, how much they make, how much they spend for things. Often they speak about these things with great vigor. *Not* to ask about money (or to talk about my own money situation) was something I learned when I got involved in the San Francisco poetry scene. It's still hard, like not announcing to everybody how much my shoes cost. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:45:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: looking rudy / narvis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: narvis Date: 9/1/99 10:10 AM -0300 i'm looking for rudy burkhardt does anyone there how to reach? thanks p drop z cactu@cantv.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:00:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Highsmith Subject: Philip Whalen Just opened the San Francisco Observer, September issue, and am disturbed to see (within an article on financial troubles at Mount Zion Hospital) an emergency room photograph of Philip Whalen on a gurney. Does anybody know how he's doing? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:46:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lance Fung Gallery, 537 Bway, NYC" Subject: September Solo Exhibitions Comments: To: pllynchnvl@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46OR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT LANCE FUNG 212 334 = 6242 September 1999 J O S H U A S E L M A N "Off The Grid" S o l o E x h i b i t i o n 9 September - 2 October at Lance Fung Gallery, 537 Broadway, N= YC RECEPTION THURSDAY SEPTEMBER 9, 6-8 Gallery hours: Tuesday - Saturday, 11 - 6 Off The Grid, a multi-media, action and process based exhibition by Joshua Selman opens September 9th at Lance Fung Gallery. Mr. Selman has shown repeatedly with Lance Fung Gallery since its opening year. Off The Grid includes a sonic event made from mutilated electric guitars and other live, sound emitting devices planted in soil, salt, ice, wood or other naturally occurring substances. The amplified planting is performed at the opening reception and sends off a beautiful sound event capturing such sonic details as friction between organic materials and disturbances between electronic objects planted within them. Set off from the planting, a floor installation of a twenty foot triangular lattice made from cut pine trees is up-ended over soil, minerals and other natural deposits. Along a tradition first associated with artists like Smithson or Long, the artist has collected the cuttings at a chosen site and recontexted them in the gallery. The triangular pine structure combines with a two hundred square foot wall installation showing hundreds of color prints made with samples of rotting wood from infested trees, lichen feeding on living evergreens, bark dust, tree roots, moss and other by-products of a decaying forest put directly on the glass bed of a computer scanner for output. As duo-tones, the prints unify in rough color bands: brown-green-red-yellow and blue. The loosely arranged color bands unite as a singular horizon view. Conceptually, the exhibit's focus is on the process of roaming between rural, urban and electronic terrains. About Off The Grid, Mr. Selman says "These days they're re-cabling the entire planet. You feel a de-stabilizing effect. But, this anticipates our journey. We're roaming within structures more flexible than the prefabricated urban container." A slightly different definition, "off the grid" is a term used today by a growing segment of the population attempting to sever its dependence on the support grid behind industrial civilization. The cult lifestyle has even made its own industry of products for living off the grid. Whether or not this is possible, a growing human desire to go beyond the reduction of all phenomena to elements within a material grid seems to be timely. Mr. Selman admits he feels centering in the urban grid is obsolete and, in the exhibit, draws from his own desire to expand beyond its domain. His previous project, Full Message, exhibited at Lance Fung Gallery in Spring of '98, is documented in K=FCnstforum and K=F6lner Arts Magazine. Pieces from Full Message were collected and displayed by The Whitney Museum Of American Art, The Ultimate Akademie, K=F6ln and The Artists Project, Berlin. Also in '98, Mr. Selman was included in The Malsch Exhibition, Munich and The Concrete Signal, York, Pennsylvania. Upcoming exhibitions of =46ull Message are at The Museum Of Contemporary Art, Lake Worth, Florida an= d The Triton Museum, California. He has works with The Stamp Collection, New York, The Artists Museum, Tel Aviv, Vanguard Visions, New York and was commissioned in '98 by Australian Broadcast Corporation to make a radio work at The Bridge, Construction In Process, Melbourne, Australia as a participating artist. A national broadcast takes place in September '99. Lance Fung Gallery, 537 Broadway, NY, NY 10012 T/ 212 334 6242 F/ 212 966 0439 ------------------Also on September 9th----------------- E M I L Y PRESS RELEASE H A R V E Y G A L L E R Y 537 B r o a d w a y N Y C, N Y 10012 Tel: (212) 925-7651 =46ax (212) 966-0439 -- J E S S I C A H I G G I N S -- "How It Sometimes Goes In Kangaroo Land" Solo Exhibition 9 September - 2 October 1999 at Emily Harvey Gallery, 537 Broadway, NYC Reception for the artist: Thursday, 9 September, 6-8 PM Gallery hours: Tuesday - Saturday, 11 - 6 Emily Harvey is proud to present a solo exhibition by Jessica Higgins titled How It Sometimes Goes In Kangaroo Land. The exhibition opens Thursday, September 9th. Emily Harvey Gallery is the main American gallery representing such vintage Fluxus artists as Alison Knowles, Emmett Williams, Philip Corner, and the late Dick Higgins. How It Sometimes Goes In Kangaroo Land is based on a pattern poem titled Long Tail For Jessie. Published in Dick Higgins' classic 1979 book, Some Recent Snow Flakes, it was inspired by a telephone conversation in which =0BMs. Higgins told her father "and that's how it sometimes goes in Kangaroo Land." Her exhibition opens a window to the private world this artist shared with her father. The installation includes white cloth chairs suspended or placed on platforms. On the chairs Ms. Higgins has screen-printed correspondence and pattern poems including the poem Long Tail For Jessie. The prints magnify texts and transform the chairs into pages torn from a book. Mimicking mammal forms, the chairs play on the idea of materialized nonsense characteristic of a tradition that extends from the work of Lewis Carroll through works from the Fluxus family into which Jessica Higgins was born. Additionally, Ms. Higgins has used the title How it Sometimes Goes In Kangaroo Land, as the basis of a thousand page anagrammatic text. All one thousand pages are presented along with pages she chose to put through a blue print machine and output as six foot scrolls of white text on blue ground. Jessica Higgins' previous solo exhibition titled Riddles was presented at Lance Fung Gallery in Spring 1998. ---------------------------------------- All email to lfg@thing.net (To be dropped from this list please send the message 'remove' as the subject of a blank email to lfg@thing.net) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:16:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: UPDATE: The 12hr ISBN-JPEG Project / Brace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Sep 1, 1999 5:45 PM -0700 From: { brad brace } _______ _ __ ___ _ |__ __| | /_ |__ \| | | | | |__ ___ | | ) | |__ _ __ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | / /| '_ \| '__| | | | | | | __/ | |/ /_| | | | | |_| |_| |_|\___| |_|____|_| |_|_| _____ _____ ____ _ _ _ _____ ______ _____ |_ _|/ ____| _ \| \ | | | | __ \| ____/ ____| | | | (___ | |_) | \| |______ | | |__) | |__ | | __ | | \___ \| _ <| . ` |______| | | ___/| __|| | |_ | _| |_ ____) | |_) | |\ | | |__| | | | |___| |__| | |_____|_____/|____/|_| \_| \____/|_| |______\_____| | __ \ (_) | | | |__) | __ ___ _ ___ ___| |_ | ___/ '__/ _ \| |/ _ \/ __| __| | | | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_ |_| |_| \___/| |\___|\___|\__| _/ | |__/ > > > > Synopsis: The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project began December 30, 1994. A `round-the-clock posting of sequenced hypermodern imagery from Brad Brace. The hypermodern minimizes the familiar, the known, the recognizable; it suspends identity, relations and history. This discourse, far from determining the locus in which it speaks, is avoiding the ground on which it could find support. It is trying to operate a decentering that leaves no privilege to any center. The 12-hour ISBN JPEG Project ----------------------------- began December 30, 1994 Pointless Hypermodern Imagery... posted/mailed every 12 hours... a spectral, trajective alignment for the 90`s! A continuum of minimalist masks in the face of catastrophe; conjuring up transformative metaphors for the everyday... A poetic reversibility of exclusive events... A post-rhetorical, continuous, apparently random sequence of imagery... genuine gritty, greyscale... corruptable, compact, collectable and compelling convergence. The voluptuousness of the grey imminence: the art of making the other disappear. Continual visual impact; filled with the density of an invisible knowledge; an optical drumming, sculpted in duration, on the endless present of the Net. An extension of the printed ISBN-Book (0-9690745) series... critically unassimilable... imagery is gradually acquired, selected and re-sequenced over time... ineluctable, vertiginous connections. The 12hr dialtone... [ see ftp.netcom.com/pub/bb/bbrace/books ] KEYWORDS: >> Disconnected, disjunctive, distended, de-centered, de-composed, ambiguous, augmented, ambilavent, homogeneous, reckless... >> Multi-faceted, oblique, obsessive, obscure, obdurate... >> Promulgated, personal, permeable, prolonged, polymorphous, provocative, poetic, plural, perverse, potent, prophetic, pathological, pointless... >> Emergent, evolving, eccentric, eclectic, egregious, exciting, entertaining, evasive, entropic, erotic, entrancing, enduring, expansive... Every 12 hours, another!... view them, re-post `em, save `em, trade `em, print `em, even publish them... The design of the Net assumes that intellectual property is technically and socially obsolete. Here`s how: ~ Set www-links to -> http://www.teleport.com/~bbrace/12hr.html Look for the 12-hr-icon. Heavy traffic may require you to specify files more than once! Anarchie, Fetch, CuteFTP, TurboGopher... Or -> ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/bb/bbrace/bbrace.html ~ Download from -> ftp.pacifier.com /pub/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.netcom.com /pub/bb/bbrace Download from -> ftp.teleport.com /users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.rdrop.com /pub/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.wco.com /pub/users/bbrace * Remember to set tenex or binary. Get 12hr.jpeg ~ E-mail -> If you only have access to email, then you can use FTPmail to do essentially the same thing. Send a message with a body of 'help' to the server address nearest you: * ftpmail@ccc.uba.ar ftpmail@cs.uow.edu.au ftpmail@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de ftpmail@ftp.Dartmouth.edu ftpmail@ieunet.ie ftpmail@src.doc.ic.ac.uk ftpmail@archie.inesc.pt ftpmail@ftp.sun.ac.za ftpmail@ftp.sunet.se ftpmail@ftp.luth.se ftpmail@NCTUCCCA.edu.tw ftpmail@oak.oakland.edu ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com ftpmail@census.gov ftp-request@netcom.com bitftp@plearn.bitnet bitftp@dearn.bitnet bitftp@vm.gmd.de bitftp@plearn.edu.pl bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu bitftp@pucc.bitnet * * ~ Mirror-sites requested! Archives too! The latest new jpeg will always be named, 12hr.jpeg Average size of images is only 45K. * Perl program to mirror ftp-sites/sub-directories: src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/packages/mirror * ~ Postings to usenet newsgroups: alt.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc * * Ask your system's news-administrator to carry these groups! (There are also usenet image browsers: TIFNY, PluckIt, Picture Agent, PictureView, Extractor97, NewsRover, Binary News Assistant, EasyNews) ~ This interminable, relentless sequence of imagery began in earnest on December 30, 1994. The basic structure of the project has been over twenty-four years in the making. While the specific sequence of photographs has been presently orchestrated for more than 12 years` worth of 12-hour postings, I will undoubtedly be tempted to tweak the ongoing publication with additional new interjected imagery. Each 12-hour posting is like the turning of a page; providing ample time for reflection, interruption, and assimilation. ~ The sites listed above also contain information on other cultural projects and sources. ~ A very low-volume, moderated mailing list for announcements and occasional commentary related to this project has been established. Send e-mail to: listserv@netcom.com /subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg -- This project has not received government art-subsidies. Some opportunities still exist for financially assisting the publication of editions-by-subscription of large (33x46") prints; perhaps (Iris giclees) inkjet duotones on newsprint! Other supporters receive rare copies of the first three web-offset printed ISBN-Books. -- ISBN is International Standard Book Number. JPEG and GIF are types of image files. Get the text-file, 'pictures-faq' to learn how to view or translate these images. [ftp ftp.netcom.com/pub/bb/bbrace] -- credit appreciated, but no copyright 1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999 -- ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:04:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: trAce project, loveandwar - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I want to mention here, again, sorry for the repetition, that we've set up a space for textual experimentation re: a 'novel' or accumulation, at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm based on Jennifer and any others one might care to contribute - there are five backbone webpages - you can add to any of them and/or add your own webpage (contact me on that) - Also on LinguaMoo we've established a space to write/into dealing with avatars, you can publicly @dig there, at the Grove (down from trAce) - you have to join Lingua, that's all - Please participate in these, at least check them out, if you have the time - there are also those conferences on the Webboard - you join by going through http://trace.ntu.ac.uk - devoted to experimental writing, cyborg and avatar issues, etc. - Thanks, Alan http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt - partial mirror at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html co-moderator Cyberculture, Cybermind, Fiction of Philosophy (fop-l) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:00:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Re: Cid Corman's address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's Cid Corman's mailing address: Fukuoji-cho/80 Utano/Ukyo-ku/Kyoto 616/Japan. Jesse -----Original Message----- From: Grant Jenkins To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 5:32 PM Subject: Re: Cid Corman's address >Burt, > >John in his latest letter says that we have Corman's address, but I can't >find it in the archive. For everyone's benefit, would you please repost >that information? > >Thanks > >> As said, a cheque isn't that good for anything under $500 (due to $35 >> charged for cashing). The best method is to transfer cash ( yen if >> possible) direct to his bank. ( You have the address / details. [i.e., >>from a previous message: banking details, which he tells me is good for >>"dollar, yen, or check transfers": Cid Corman c/o Kyoto Shinyo Kinko Bank, >>Omuro Branch, Omuro Ukyo-ku, Kyoto 616-8208 Japan; account number: >>095-0010328; bank tel: (075) 462-9670.] ) >> >>For smaller amounts sending cash in perhaps a registered envelope / hidden >>by carbon paper + Cid's details should do it. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:48:21 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Shapiro Subject: Jewish Lit on Sept 26 in NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in association with NEW YORK IS BOOK COUNTRY (a day-long festival of great books and browsing!) NEW JEWISH LITERATURE & WRITING Sunday, September 26,1999 LOCATION: 40 West 45 Street (near Fifth Avenue) New York, New York RSVP: (212) 604-4823 or gshapirony@aol.com 2:00pm THANE ROSENBAUM reads from SECOND HAND SMOKE (St. Martin's) It's a story taking place in the seamy underbelly of Miami Beach's Collins Avenue, where Mila Katz, Holocaust survivor and confidante to Miami's mobsters, lives by her wits) 3:00pm ALAN KAUFMAN reads for poems WHO ARE WE by Davka Press He is also the author of a forthcoming book THE OUTLAW BIBLE OF AMERICAN POETRY (Thunder's Mouth), and editor of a cool Jewish website 4:00pm MELVIN JULES BUKIET reads from a new anthology NEUROTICA: JEWISH WRITERS ON SEX (WW Norton). REQUEST: If you have any ideas of where i can post this event listing [poetry websites, listservs, etc] could you either forward it there, or email me at gshapirony@aol.com Thank you, and happy New Year, la shana tova. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:51:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: NYC Bookstores Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gotham Book Mart ---------- >From: Michael Walsh >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: NYC Bookstores >Date: Mon, Aug 30, 1999, 5:19 PM > >Dear Ramez Qureshi, > >St Marks Books (3rd Ave and 9th St) will usually have >Sulfur (and other such periodicals) -- in the back, on >the right, across from the remainders. Their poetry books >are not so good, but they sometimes have some things, >and so might have Swenson. > >Good luck, >Michael Walsh > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:54:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Walsh Subject: Re: NYC Bookstores MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Dear Douglas Messerli, Ah, interesting. I have often enough wondered why St Marks does so poorly on stocking varieties of poetry that they really should have on the shelves. The readers of these books are certainly often in the place. A while back, I was in there and grabbed a copy of Ron Silliman's Xing. At the register, it turned out that Xing is read by the machine as a command to cancel the transaction, so I stood there while the person behind the counter tried again and again to get the register to accept this string as the title of the book. They finally sold it to me without entering the title into what I suppose is an inventory -- so they probably haven't re-ordered it either. Best Michael Walsh ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:07:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jack Ruttan Organization: axess.com Subject: Emile Nelligan's E-mail Address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:30:56 -0400 > From: Brian Stefans > Subject: Emile Nelligan's E-mail Address > Actually, Nelligan's long dead, but I'll be heading up to Montreal this > Thursday for the weekend and wanted to find out where the historic sites > might be regarding this poet. Anybody out there have any information? > > The sites I've found -- of which there are a fair amount -- are all in > French, and from what I can tell don't contain this type tourist (tripe), > er, information. I'm especially interested in the location of the writer's > group that he was a part of, l'ecole litteraire de Montreal, where he read > "La Romance de Vin," interesting because he was carried around on the > shoulders of his, er, "communiyt" that evening for having more or less > created French Canadian poetry, and then went comatose with some form o= > f > schizophrenia two months later (at 20 ans). > > At least that's what I _read_ -- I'm sure someone who was there will > correct me! > > But seriously, I'd love to find some locations. > > Cheers, > Brian > I didn't know if he was part of a writer's group. But if you step off at Metro Sherbrooke, you can head towards rue Laval, where he lived, and did most of his writing, I think. On the way, there's a a Quebec Poets and Writers Assn. on rue Laval at the head of a park called Carre St. Louis, and they might be able to direct you somewhere. Failing that, Nelligan's picture is in most of the French-Language bookstores (many on rue St. Denis), and the people there, if knowledgeable, might give you an assist. Jack Ruttan, Montreal -- http://www.axess.com/users/jackr ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:32:08 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > >I could only assume that the emphasis was on "real" poets. But we have been >around this class bush repeatedly, as someone pointed out. > tell me tellme quick whats a "real" poet????/pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:37:52 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: social conformity vs Cid Corman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >To all: >The publication idea is great. one way to raise funds is to hold a SMALL >PRESS auction specially those small run items that are around,, maybe >invite SMALL PRESS publishers to give one or two copies of something that >is getting close to the out of print cata/gory i've suggested this here in >Aust when there was an emergency once o'er the publish of someones book >when the printers had stuffed it all up and a new run was needed but they >wouldn't come clean//if all this makes any sensibles//yours pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 02:52:32 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Shapiro Subject: NYC events for Kenyon, Sewanee, Boulevard,Graywolf MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Four free literary events: Location: 15 Gramercy Park South, New York City (near 20th Street & Park Avenue); jackets required; see you there RSVP required to gshapirony@aol.com or (212) 604-4823 Save these dates in your calendar! October 12, 1999 The Kenyon Review at 60: A Celebration 7:00pm; free Princeton professor Michael Wood (author of books on Stendhal, Marquez, Nabokov, among others) Will speak on BROKEN DATES: FICTION AND THE CENTURY, followed by respondent MacArthur winner Lewis Hyde (author of The Gift: Imagination and the Erotic Life of Property). Moderated by Editor David Lynn. November 3, 1999 Sewanee Writers' Conference 10th Anniversary Event 7:00pm free You are cordially invited to join Wyatt Prunty and various authors and writers. Alice McDermott, Mark Strand, Dan Mueller, Lily Tuck. In association with The Overlook Press/The Sewanee Writers' Series. November 8,1999 An evening with Boulevard Magazine Join Editor Richard Burgin (three-time Pushcart Prize winner, and author of Fear of Blue Skies, Private Fame and Man Without Memory), Molly Peacock, author of four books of poems, including Original Love and Take Heart, as well as a memoir Paradise, Piece by Piece. She has been president of the Poetry Society of America. Art critic and poet David Shapiro, author of 7 volumes of poetry, monographs on Ashbery, Jasper Johns, and After a Last Original (with Terry Winters). December 2,1999 Graywolf Press: Celebrating 25 Years 7pm free Join noted authors Mark Doty, Sophie Cabot Black, Nick Flynn, Eamon Grennan, and Vijay Seshadri. Welcome by editor Fiona McCrae; Graywolf celebrates twenty-five years of publishing gourndbreaking, thoughtful, and imaginative contemporary fiction. RSVP required; email gshapirony@aol.com or (212) 604-4823. Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:32:04 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Yr right, working class people often DO have more openness re: money. But that's pretty much an urban thing. In fact the whole notion of "working class" is urban; Marx didn't farm, and shuddered at the fact of living in a rural setting. There are plenty of provincial mutes who don't have much to say about money or anything else. I find that whole hierarchy of working, middle, upper class to be over simple. Isn't it more like some kind of daisy chain in wch all participate, even if often enough against their will? And don't you think the "openness" in the working classes toward discussing fiscal matters is sometimes contingent on the feeling that they've been "had" - that's something I've noticed, openness seeming a way to bear up under constant (fiscal & emotional) strain, if not outright (temporal & spatial) abuse. Wch is, okay, not always the case, but to invoke the openness you speak of without mentioning the perpetual grind being under image to priviledge (ie., something to work toward, like getting a disease) is to keep intent separate from the occasional desperation behind it. Conditions have contexts & causes, middle class is it may be to point this (if not them) out. S E >From: Dodie Bellamy >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:26:44 -0700 > >At 2:46 PM -0700 8/31/99, Stephen Ellis wrote: >> >>We DO live on the same planet. Twenty dollars was an arbitrary figure I >>cldn't (easily) afford either. The point is elsewhere - money is secret. > >Actually, what you're voicing is a middle class value. Working class >people (at least the ones I was raised around) are very open about >money, how much they make, how much they spend for things. Often >they speak about these things with great vigor. *Not* to ask about >money (or to talk about my own money situation) was something I >learned when I got involved in the San Francisco poetry scene. It's >still hard, like not announcing to everybody how much my shoes cost. > >Dodie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:34:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: daniel bouchard Subject: Bookcellar Cafe Reading Series Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > The Bookcellar Poetry Reading Series > > presents: > > JOSEPH TORRA and PATRICK DOUD > > September 17th, Friday > 7:00 P.M. > >The reading is free but donations for the poets are encouraged. The > Bookcellar Cafe and Bookstore is at 1971 Mass. Ave. in Porter Sq. > in Cambridge one block on the right from the T Stop. > >A Fall schedule of monthly and sometimes bi-monthly readings is > forthcoming. Thanks VERY much, Aaron Kiely > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:34:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: HH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = HH Help help, I'm being murdered, for God's sake help me! !em pleh ekas s'doG rof ,deredrum gnieb m'I ,pleh pleH Jesus fuck Christ get off me, get away from me! !em morf yawa teg ,em ffo teg tsirhC kcuf suseJ Come back you bastards, oh God, I'm so sorry ... ... yrros os m'I ,doG ho ,sdratsab uoy kcab emoC I didn't take your money for God's sakes, you've got the wrong person! !nosrep gnorw eht tog ev'uoy ,sekas s'doG rof yenom ruoy ekat t'ndid I It wasn't me, please please don't shoot, oh please, don't, don't, please! !esaelp ,t'nod ,t'nod ,esaelp ho ,toohs t'nod esaelp esaelp ,em t'nsaw tI Fuck, please don't rape me, I'm not a bad person, please leave me alone ... ... enola em evael esaelp ,nosrep dab a ton m'I ,em epar t'nod esaelp ,kcuF Oh God oh God I've been shot, help me, help me! !em pleh ,em pleh ,tohs neeb ev'I doG ho doG hO Please, I beg you, if you have any compassion, please, pleaes, please. .esaelp ,seaelp ,esaelp ,noissapmoc yna evah uoy fi ,uoy geb I ,esaelP God, please leave me alone, please, I don't deserve this, leave me alone. .enola em evael ,siht evresed t'nod I ,esaelp ,enola em evael esaelp ,doG Oh God, no ... ... on ,doG hO Please, I don't want to die, I haven't done anything to you. .uoy ot gnihtyna enod t'nevah I ,eid ot tnaw t'nod I ,esaelP Look at me, no, look at me, please, you don't really want to do this. .siht od ot tnaw yllaer t'nod uoy ,esaelp ,em ta kool ,on ,em ta kooL Please don't kill me, I have children, please, oh God please ... ... esaelp doG ho ,esaelp ,nerdlihc evah I ,em llik t'nod esaelP ___________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:27:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Philip Whalen / Scalapino MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999 10:04 AM -0700 From: Thos J White In response to David Highsmith's question, Philip Whalen has been in the hospital for over a week with a bacterial infection which started in his leg. Though of course he's been quite sick, he's not in danger and when visited was even in a humorous mood. He missed the group reading at Fort Mason that was held for his book OVERTIME. -- Leslie Scalapino ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:35:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: St. Petersburg Literary Seminars (summer) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990831203954.00c3da00@pop.fas.harvard.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" you should definitely contact masha zavialova, a member of this list, for poetic contacts etc in st petersburg. At 8:39 PM -0400 8/31/99, Philip Nikolayev wrote: >I will be teaching at the next St. Peterburg Summer Literary Seminars (for >English speakers/writers). The program is affiliated with the University of >Cincinnati (USA) and Herzen University (Russia). > >Program seminars include: > > Fiction 1 & 2 > Non-Fiction > Poetry > Playwriting/Screenwriting > International Dramaturgy > Literary and Philisophical Discourse in St. Petersburg > Untranslatable Russia > >More info at http://www.sumlitsem.com/ -- please take a look if interested. > >Philip Nikolayev >nikolay@fas.harvard.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:56:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Walter K. Lew" Subject: re Tony Green on Japanese "borrowing" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46rom Ralph Linton, _The Study of Man_ (1936): "Our solid American citizen awakes in a bed built on a pattern which originated in the Near East...He throws back covers made from cotton, domesticated in India, or linen, domesticated in the Near East, or wool from sheep, also domesticated in the Near East, or silk, the use of which was discovered in China...He takes off his pajamas, a garment invented in India, and washes with soap in invented by the ancient Gauls. He then shaves, a masochistic rite which seems to have been derived from either Sumer or ancient Egypt...Before going out for breakfast he glances thru the window, made of glass invented in Egypt, and if it is raining puts on overshoes made of rubber discovered by the Central American Indians and takes an umbrella, invented in southeastern Asia. Upon his head he puts a hat made of felt, a material invented in the Asiatic steppes. On his way to breakfast he stops to buy a paper, paying for it with coins, an ancient Lydian invention. At the restaurant a whole new series of borrowed elements confronts him. His plate is made of a form of pottery invented in China. His knife is of steel, an alloy first made in southern India, his fork a medieval Italian invention, and his spoon a derivative of a Roman origin...After his fruit and first coffee he goes on to waffles, cakes made by a Scandinavian technique from wheat domesticated in Asia Minor. Over these he pours maple syrup, invented by the Indians of the Eastern woodlands. As a side dish he may have the egg of a species of bird domesticated in Indo-China, or thin strips of the flesh of an animal domesticated in Eastern Asia which have been salted and smoked by a process developed in Northern Europe. When our friend has finished eating he settles back to smoke, an American Indian habit, consuming a plant domesticated in Brazil in either a pipe, derived from the Indians of Virgina or a cigarette, derived from Mexico...While smoking he reads the news of the day, imprinted in characters invented by the ancient Semites upon a material invented in China by a process invented in Germany [Linton shd have sd Chos=F4n (present-day Korea)]. As he absorbs the accounts of foreign troubles he will if he is a good conservative citizen, thank a Hebrew deity in an Indo-European language that he is 100 per cent American." As quoted in Prof. Henry Em's reader for a UCLA course on Modern Korean hist= ory. Walter K. Lew 11811 Venice Blvd. #138 Los Angeles, CA 90066 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:37:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Need help for a Millennial Project through trAce! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = Millennium Project - Help Needed, Comments Invited !!! This is a proposal for a millennium project that would involving running traceroute and similar applications across the December 31 / January 1 _hinge._ Traceroute is a linux / unix command that can also be downloaded as a small application for Windows; the command-line (prompt) startup is: {k:1} traceroute
- for example {k:2} traceroute cleo.murdoch.edu.au Traceroute then executes a series of internet packet transmissions that target each router between one's local site and the address; each target is usually hit three times. The send-and-return time for each router is then given to the user. The result is a table or textual map of the health of the route between the local and final address; if a router is down or not responding, that is clear from the * in place of the send-and-return time. Here is an example: {k:110}traceroute cleo.murdoch.edu.au >> zz traceroute to cleo.murdoch.edu.au (134.115.224.60), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 isdn2.nyc.access(166.84.0.123) 184ms 169ms 169ms 2 xenyn-eid-FE0-1.nyc.access(166.84.0.97) 169ms 169ms 169ms 3 587.Hssi2-0-0.GW2.NYC4.ALTER(157.130.17.145) 179ms 179ms 179ms 4 132.ATM2-0.XR1.NYC4.ALTER(146.188.178.134) 189 ms 179ms 170ms 5 189.ATM2-0.TR1.NYC1.ALTER(146.188.179.18) 179ms 189 ms 189ms 6 104.ATM7-0.TR1.LAX2.ALTER(146.188.137.129) 249ms 249ms 249ms 7 299.ATM7-0.XR1.LAX4.ALTER(146.188.248.253) 249ms 259ms 260ms 8 192.ATM8-0-0.GW1.LAX4.ALTER(146.188.248.101) 269ms 259. ms 249ms 9 optus-gw.customer.ALTER(157.130.227.182) 249ms 249ms 279ms 10 hssi8-0-0.ia4.optus.net.au (192.65.89.241) 599ms 559ms 549ms hssi3-0-0.ia4.optus.net.au (192.65.89.237) 549ms 11 ge9-0-0.ia3.optus.net.au (192.65.89.225) 569ms 579ms 589ms 12 aarnet-wa.ia3.optus.net.au (192.65.88.190) 649ms 629ms 629ms 13 murdoch-parnet.parnet.edu.au (203.19.110.146) 629ms 639ms 619ms 14 cleo.murdoch.edu.au (134.115.224.60) 639ms 639ms 649ms All of the intermediate routers between the local address (my desktop com- puter routed through panix.com) and cleo.murdoch.edu.au are listed in order; the IP address is given after the name, and then three times are listed for every address. What I propose is a skein or matrix of traceroutes run all around the world - not just from major cities - sites - at the time of the millennial turnover hinge. Participants could run one or several traceroutes; the results would be sent to me or a trAce site via standard email, and assembled. (It may be possible to create a visualization, but the cost of this seems prohibitive.) The result would give a map of some of the world's nerves as Y2K comes to fruition; it would be a unique and historic signature or imprint of the passing of an era (marked by B.C./A.D. or b.c.e. a.c.e. common time - I'm well aware of alternative date systems). The text would be a world-text, a self-reflexive look at the Net by the Net, data-crawling everywhere. One site might not have traceroute running at all; another might connect just as easily as usual. A major problem is that almost no one will be around for the hinge (and don't forget the hinge itself will take a day to travel the world). The computers would most like be set up (if unix or linux) with the at or cron commands, which automate task running at particular times; if they connect to the Net, they'd also have to ensure that the ISP connection remains open. All of these are difficult problems; one solution would be to _actively_ make connections when the participant's local address is not on the hinge - but to target hinge addresses. Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. trAce (Sue Thomas) and I have tried to find programming help on this, but so far it appears costly. Martin Dodge at Cybergeography has been thinking along similar lines, but nothing is firmed up there, either. Alan _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:18:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: Amnasan and Robinson Reading at Small Press Traffic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1275800960==_ma============" --============_-1275800960==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" **SMALL PRESS TRAFFIC READING ** Mike Amnasan Elizabeth Robinson Friday, September 10, 7:30 p.m. Mike Amnasan's novel I Can't Distinguish Opposites (1988, Black Star Series), and its unpublished sequel, Joe Liar, were two of the most important works to come out of San Francisco's "New Narrative" school of the 1980s, arriving like a pair of thunderclaps across a livid purple sky of politics, sex, genre-bending, labor writing, memoir, and deconstruction. Amnasan is the author as well of a full-length play, Revery, and the editor of the controversial literary/sociological journal Ottotole (1985-1989). This year he won the Sheet Metal Workers Local 104 College Scholarship Award to study literature at San Francisco State University. Born in Pasco (Washington), he will be reading tonight from a memoir-in-progress, Beyond the Safety of Dreams. For many, Elizabeth Robinson epitomizes the latest version of the new American poetry, for her writing is well known for its lyric abstraction, its spiritual depth, its finesse of experiment, and elegant individualism. Often overlooked are the Rabelaisian undertones, for here is a poetry in love with life, eros, and comedy high and low. Robinson's books include: In the Sequence of Falling Things (paradigm) and Bed of Lists (Kelsey St. Press), and seven chapbooks from publishers around the world. Forthcoming, a new book from Kelsey St. Press (The Seed for Bread), and a chapbook (Lodger) from Arcturus Editions. Her poems and critical writing have appeared in Oblek, The Germ, Epoch, First Intensity, Hambone, 6ix, Fence, American Letters and Commentary, Fourteen Hills. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1275800960==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Palatino**SMALL PRESS TRAFFIC READING ** Mike Amnasan Elizabeth Robinson =46riday, September 10, 7:30 p.m.=20
Palatino<= bigger> Mike Amnasan's novel I Can't Distinguish Opposites (1988, Black Star Series), and its unpublished sequel, Joe Liar, were two of the most important works to come out of San =46rancisco's "New Narrative" school of the 1980s, arriving like a pair of thunderclaps across a livid purple sky of politics, sex, genre-bending, labor writing, memoir, and deconstruction. Amnasan is the author as well of a full-length play, Revery, and the editor of the controversial literary/sociological journal Ottotole (1985-1989). This year he won the Sheet Metal Workers Local 104 College Scholarship Award to study literature at San =46rancisco State University. Born in Pasco (Washington), he will be reading tonight from a memoir-in-progress, Beyond the Safety of Dreams. For many, Elizabeth Robinson epitomizes the latest version of the new American poetry, for her writing is well known for its lyric abstraction, its spiritual depth, its finesse of experiment, and elegant individualism. Often overlooked are the Rabelaisian undertones, for here is a poetry in love with life, eros, and comedy high and low. Robinson's books include: In the Sequence of Falling Things (paradigm) and Bed of Lists (Kelsey St. Press), and seven chapbooks from publishers around the world. =46orthcoming, a new book from Kelsey St. Press (The Seed for Bread), and a chapbook (Lodger) from Arcturus Editions. Her poems and critical writing have appeared in Oblek, The Germ, Epoch, First Intensity, Hambone, 6ix, Fence, American Letters and Commentary, Fourteen Hills. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1275800960==_ma============-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:45:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Jewish Lit on Sept 26 in NYC In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i'll be there in shpilkes At 10:48 PM -0400 9/1/99, Gary Shapiro wrote: >in association with >NEW YORK IS BOOK COUNTRY >(a day-long festival of great books and browsing!) > >NEW JEWISH LITERATURE & WRITING > Sunday, September 26,1999 >LOCATION: 40 West 45 Street (near Fifth Avenue) >New York, New York >RSVP: (212) 604-4823 or gshapirony@aol.com > >2:00pm THANE ROSENBAUM reads from SECOND HAND SMOKE (St. Martin's) >It's a story taking place in the seamy underbelly of Miami Beach's Collins >Avenue, where Mila Katz, Holocaust survivor and confidante to Miami's >mobsters, lives by her wits) > >3:00pm ALAN KAUFMAN reads for poems WHO ARE WE by Davka Press >He is also the author of a forthcoming book THE OUTLAW BIBLE OF AMERICAN >POETRY (Thunder's Mouth), and editor of a cool Jewish website > >4:00pm MELVIN JULES BUKIET reads from a new anthology NEUROTICA: JEWISH >WRITERS ON SEX (WW Norton). > >REQUEST: If you have any ideas of where i can post this event listing [poetry >websites, listservs, etc] could you either forward it there, or email me at >gshapirony@aol.com >Thank you, and happy New Year, la shana tova. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:25:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I wouldn't be so quick to consign this as "urban" phenomena. (In fact in the decidedly rural, decidedly working class place where my people are, and where I grew up, openness about fiscal matters, including the family's struggle to pay bills and ward off overdrafts at the bank, was the norm. I think that working class kids are often not sheltered from such events.) But I think that Dodie Bellamy is pointing out the middle class tendency toward a *false* politeness in which "we don't discuss things like that." This contirbutes toward an environment in which we pretend that privilege doesn't exist ("oh really we're all the same; we're all just poets"). And to point out that that is in fact false is perceived as impolite, or worse yet as complaining, whining, or "bitching." In fact, in a recent forum on class & poetics which I edited and organized with Robin Tremblay-McGaw, working class folks were reluctant to speak for the very reason that they would be labelled as such ("oh, quit you're complaining, etc.) But there's a helluva lot of interesting work to be done on class & literature, and it is imperative that working class folks be part of that discussion. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ---------- >From: Stephen Ellis >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets >Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999, 5:32 AM > >Yr right, working class people often DO have more openness re: money. But >that's pretty much an urban thing. In fact the whole notion of "working >class" is urban; Marx didn't farm, and shuddered at the fact of living in a >rural setting. There are plenty of provincial mutes who don't have much to >say about money or anything else. I find that whole hierarchy of working, >middle, upper class > >to be over simple. Isn't it more like some kind of daisy chain in wch all >participate, even if often enough against their will? And don't you think >the "openness" in the working classes toward discussing fiscal matters is >sometimes contingent on the feeling that they've been "had" - that's >something I've noticed, openness seeming a way to bear up under constant >(fiscal & emotional) strain, if not outright (temporal & spatial) abuse. >Wch is, okay, not always the case, but > >to invoke the openness you speak of without mentioning the perpetual grind >being under image to priviledge (ie., something to work toward, like getting >a disease) is to keep intent separate from the occasional desperation behind >it. Conditions have contexts & causes, middle class is it may be to point >this (if not them) out. > >S E > > >>From: Dodie Bellamy >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: more power to the affluent poets >>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:26:44 -0700 >> >>At 2:46 PM -0700 8/31/99, Stephen Ellis wrote: >>> >>>We DO live on the same planet. Twenty dollars was an arbitrary figure I >>>cldn't (easily) afford either. The point is elsewhere - money is secret. >> >>Actually, what you're voicing is a middle class value. Working class >>people (at least the ones I was raised around) are very open about >>money, how much they make, how much they spend for things. Often >>they speak about these things with great vigor. *Not* to ask about >>money (or to talk about my own money situation) was something I >>learned when I got involved in the San Francisco poetry scene. It's >>still hard, like not announcing to everybody how much my shoes cost. >> >>Dodie > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:32:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: more pour to the effluent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" unhappily, when it comes from on high ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 01:23:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: krupoetry Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Comments: To: Working_Writers@onelist.com, Cultural Tourism Coordinator , National Endowment for the Arts , "R. U. Outavit" Comments: cc: "every poet on Earth..." , Carolyn Forche , Chiron Review , Ed Sanders , Alan Kaufman , Gary Pacernick , Professor Cusimano MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a poet, I have been on strike for the past 3 weeks because the dishonourable governor of our state continues to disrespect poets and poetry in general by not appointing a State Poet Laureate when it is the governor's responsibility to have done so after the last poet laureate's term expired. If you wish to support the wildcat poetry strike you may do so by immediately placing a CANCEL on any vacation plans to a state not civilised enough to have a Poet Laureate! Poet on Strike -----Original Message----- From: Roger Baker II To: Working_Writers@onelist.com Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:01 PM Subject: [WW] Re: I can't believe it!!! From: Roger Baker II > From: "evvy" > > My computer's been down for a couple of weeks and I come back and > there's not one message from you all! I thought that at least a couple of > you would be talking to each other... > > Just to point out the obvious - you can't network with each other if > you don't get to know each other. > > evvy (list owner) > poet/writer > egarrett@ix.netcom.com Hi evvy, Very good point. Let me one of the first to apologize to everyone. I know I have been very busy working on other things, that I have neglected to participate. I hope to more accessible in the future. Thanks, Roger Baker II ~ Images Inscript - Free interactive literary e-zine The place to discuss poetry, stories and be published. Subscribe via e-mail at mailto:images-inscript-subscribe@egroups.com http://www.ImagesInscript.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 03:35:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: krupoetry Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Comments: To: CE , Working_Writers@onelist.com, Cultural Tourism Coordinator , National Endowment for the Arts , "R. U. Outavit" Comments: cc: "every poet on Earth..." , Carolyn Forche , Chiron Review , Ed Sanders , Alan Kaufman , Gary Pacernick , Professor Cusimano MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Because the dishonourable governor has such a low regard for poets and by implication performing artists of every genre, please tell all your influential friends in LA not to vacation or film any more movies in this uncouth state... Poet on Strike -----Original Message----- From: CE To: krupoetry ; Working_Writers@onelist.com ; Cultural Tourism Coordinator ; National Endowment for the Arts ; R. U. Outavit Cc: every poet on Earth... ; Carolyn Forche ; Chiron Review ; Ed Sanders ; Alan Kaufman ; Gary Pacernick ; Professor Cusimano Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 2:00 AM Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Shit, CA doesn't have one, last I checked. I nominate Alan Kaufman from the list. But hey, in LA, the chief value is not to get too excited about anything-- So CHILL! How did I get on _this_ mailing list? "Tereu, tereu, so rudely forced." Thine in Truth and Art, CE "The Poetry doesn't matter." --T.S. Eliot http://www.melicreview.com/roundtable/ http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/1994/24136 ************************************* -----Original Message----- From: krupoetry To: Working_Writers@onelist.com ; Cultural Tourism Coordinator ; National Endowment for the Arts ; R. U. Outavit Cc: every poet on Earth... ; Carolyn Forche ; Chiron Review ; Ed Sanders ; Alan Kaufman ; Gary Pacernick ; Professor Cusimano Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:23 PM Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! :As a poet, I have been on strike for the past 3 weeks because the :dishonourable governor of our state continues to disrespect poets and poetry :in general by not appointing a State Poet Laureate when it is the governor's :responsibility to have done so after the last poet laureate's term expired. : :If you wish to support the wildcat poetry strike you may do so by :immediately placing a CANCEL on any vacation plans to a state not civilised :enough to have a Poet Laureate! : :Poet on Strike :-----Original Message----- :From: Roger Baker II :To: Working_Writers@onelist.com :Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:01 PM :Subject: [WW] Re: I can't believe it!!! : : :From: Roger Baker II : :> From: "evvy" :> :> My computer's been down for a couple of weeks and I come back and :> there's not one message from you all! I thought that at least a couple :of :> you would be talking to each other... :> :> Just to point out the obvious - you can't network with each other if :> you don't get to know each other. :> :> evvy (list owner) :> poet/writer :> egarrett@ix.netcom.com : :Hi evvy, : :Very good point. Let me one of the first to apologize to everyone. I :know I have been very busy working on other things, that I have neglected :to participate. : :I hope to more accessible in the future. : : :Thanks, :Roger Baker II ~ Images Inscript - Free interactive literary e-zine :The place to discuss poetry, stories and be published. :Subscribe via e-mail at mailto:images-inscript-subscribe@egroups.com :http://www.ImagesInscript.com/ : : : ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:47:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: krupoetry Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Comments: To: Cultural Tourism Coordinator , National Endowment for the Arts , NH Humanities Council , NH State Council on the Arts , NH Writers' Project Comments: cc: "every poet on Earth..." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It would be troublesome for you and/or the multitude of poet/friends of yours to make other arrangements for skiing this year, but if you wish to support the wildcat poetry strike you may do so simply by clicking "Reply to All" with the briefest of statements: CANCEL Poet on Strike -----Original Message----- From: larry jaffe To: krupoetry Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 1:47 AM Subject: RE: I can't believe it!!! would not dream of going to that state... ... how r u doing hon? lg -----Original Message----- From: krupoetry [mailto:krupoetry@cyberportal.net] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:22 PM To: Working_Writers@onelist.com; Cultural Tourism Coordinator; National Endowment for the Arts; R. U. Outavit Cc: every poet on Earth...; Carolyn Forche; Chiron Review; Ed Sanders; Alan Kaufman; Gary Pacernick; Professor Cusimano Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! As a poet, I have been on strike for the past 3 weeks because the dishonourable governor of our state continues to disrespect poets and poetry in general by not appointing a State Poet Laureate when it is the governor's responsibility to have done so after the last poet laureate's term expired. If you wish to support the wildcat poetry strike you may do so by immediately placing a CANCEL on any vacation plans to a state not civilised enough to have a Poet Laureate! Poet on Strike -----Original Message----- From: Roger Baker II To: Working_Writers@onelist.com Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:01 PM Subject: [WW] Re: I can't believe it!!! From: Roger Baker II > From: "evvy" > > My computer's been down for a couple of weeks and I come back and > there's not one message from you all! I thought that at least a couple of > you would be talking to each other... > > Just to point out the obvious - you can't network with each other if > you don't get to know each other. > > evvy (list owner) > poet/writer > egarrett@ix.netcom.com Hi evvy, Very good point. Let me one of the first to apologize to everyone. I know I have been very busy working on other things, that I have neglected to participate. I hope to more accessible in the future. Thanks, Roger Baker II ~ Images Inscript - Free interactive literary e-zine The place to discuss poetry, stories and be published. Subscribe via e-mail at mailto:images-inscript-subscribe@egroups.com http://www.ImagesInscript.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:41:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: krupoetry Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Comments: To: Cultural Tourism Coordinator , National Endowment for the Arts , NH Humanities Council , NH State Council on the Arts , NH Writers' Project Comments: cc: "every poet on Earth..." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Every concerned poet expresses regret that any tourist would choose to cancel plans to vacation in the state during the upcoming ski season; but if you so choose to support the wildcat poetry strike, you may do so by removing any investment you have in the state immediately by clicking "Reply to All" with 1 word: REMOVE Poet on Strike -----Original Message----- From: Gary Magee To: krupoetry ; Cultural Tourism Coordinator ; National Endowment for the Arts ; NH Humanities Council ; NH State Council on the Arts ; NH Writers' Project Cc: every poet on Earth... Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 6:33 AM Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! CANCEL ----- Original Message ----- From: krupoetry To: Cultural Tourism Coordinator ; National Endowment for the Arts ; NH Humanities Council ; NH State Council on the Arts ; NH Writers' Project Cc: every poet on Earth... Sent: Friday, 3 September 1999 7:47 Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > It would be troublesome for you and/or the multitude of poet/friends of > yours to make other arrangements for skiing this year, but if you wish to > support the wildcat poetry strike you may do so simply by clicking "Reply to > All" with the briefest of statements: CANCEL > > Poet on Strike > -----Original Message----- > From: larry jaffe > To: krupoetry > Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 1:47 AM > Subject: RE: I can't believe it!!! > > > would not dream of going to that state... ... > > how r u doing hon? > > lg > > -----Original Message----- > From: krupoetry [mailto:krupoetry@cyberportal.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:22 PM > To: Working_Writers@onelist.com; Cultural Tourism Coordinator; National > Endowment for the Arts; R. U. Outavit > Cc: every poet on Earth...; Carolyn Forche; Chiron Review; Ed Sanders; > Alan Kaufman; Gary Pacernick; Professor Cusimano > Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > > > As a poet, I have been on strike for the past 3 weeks because the > dishonourable governor of our state continues to disrespect poets and poetry > in general by not appointing a State Poet Laureate when it is the governor's > responsibility to have done so after the last poet laureate's term expired. > > If you wish to support the wildcat poetry strike you may do so by > immediately placing a CANCEL on any vacation plans to a state not civilised > enough to have a Poet Laureate! > > Poet on Strike > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Baker II > To: Working_Writers@onelist.com > Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:01 PM > Subject: [WW] Re: I can't believe it!!! > > > From: Roger Baker II > > > From: "evvy" > > > > My computer's been down for a couple of weeks and I come back and > > there's not one message from you all! I thought that at least a couple > of > > you would be talking to each other... > > > > Just to point out the obvious - you can't network with each other if > > you don't get to know each other. > > > > evvy (list owner) > > poet/writer > > egarrett@ix.netcom.com > > Hi evvy, > > Very good point. Let me one of the first to apologize to everyone. I > know I have been very busy working on other things, that I have neglected > to participate. > > I hope to more accessible in the future. > > > Thanks, > Roger Baker II ~ Images Inscript - Free interactive literary e-zine > The place to discuss poetry, stories and be published. > Subscribe via e-mail at mailto:images-inscript-subscribe@egroups.com > http://www.ImagesInscript.com/ …if you wish to be removed from this newsletter list. just say so and poof ~ you will be gone… please forgive the poet Oh, Yes, for duplicate mailings… let him know Click me, Baby! and it will be handled immediately… Do it... NOW: dcp77@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:27:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Lavender Subject: An Other South: Reading and Symposium Comments: To: Staci Swedeen , Stanley Blair , Stephen Doiron , Steve Wilson , TABORWARRN , Tim Smith , Timothy Materer , Paige DeShong , Pamela Kirk Prentice , Patty Ryan , paul maltby , rlehan , Steve Barancik , Randy Prunty , Rogan Stearns , "Sean H. O'Leary" , Sara McAulay , Robert Brophy , Patricia Burchfield , Staci Bleecker , rita hiller , Stacey Bowden , Suzanne Mark , ralph stephens , Tatiana Stoumen , Todd Nettleton , Ruth Rakestraw , Robin Kemp , Patrice Melnick , Sam Broussard , Pat McFerren , Sara Wallace , Sandy Labry , Richard Crews , susan middaugh , Rhonda Blanchard , "Tammy D. Harvey" , Tana Bradley , Walt McDonald , Wendell Mayo , William Ryan , William Sylvester , Zach Smith , William Pitt Root and Pamela Uschuk , Writers' Forum , "Whitten, Phyllis" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Please note we have had to change the date to Nov. 6. Sorry... New Orleans Review and Loyola University announce -------------------------------------------- An Other South, Symposium and Poetry Reading -------------------------------------------- PLEASE NOTE WE HAVE HAD TO CHANGE THE DATE: Saturday, November 6, 1999 University Center, Loyola University, New Orleans 2:00 PM: A Symposium on the Southern, the Regional, the Experimental 8:00 PM: Readings by Contributors to An Other South, New Orleans Review 25-1 Please help us celebrate the publication of this exciting issue of New Orleans Review. All contributors are invited to read, and everyone is invited to attend. Please reply to this email if you would like to attend and need help finding a place to stay in New Orleans, or if you have any other questions. There will be no charge for any of the events. The Symposium: All interested parties are invited to submit proposals for short presentations; the presentations may be in any form, from a simple essay to a multi-person performance or audio/visual extravaganza, but may not exceed ten minutes in length. Topics should be within the range of issues raised by this issue of New Orleans Review, "An Other South: Experimental Writing in the South." Possible broad topics might include (though certainly not be limited to): What is an Experiment? Is the term still valid, or has "the Experimental" become just another genre? What is a region? What is the relationship of geographical boundaries (like "the South") with contemporary poetry? What literary traditions (ie, Language, post-Language, surrealism, Modernism, etc.) and/or individual writers are of interest for the current Southern literary scene? What are the political and cannonical implications of experimentation in the South? This list is not intended to be exhaustive, nor even extensive. Please feel free to suggest your own topics, to combine or divide any of the suggestions. Please submit proposals as soon as possible- no later than October 20. Submit via email or ground mail to: Bill Lavender Co-Editor (with Ralph Adamo) of An Other South, New Orleans Review 25-1 email: wlavende@uno.edu ground: 5568 Woodlawn Place New Orleans, LA 70124 phone (504) 486 8868 The Reading: The list of contributors, all of whom are invited to read, follows. A final list of readers and symposium participants will be published shortly before the event. Doug MacCash Jim Leftwich Hank Lazer Skip Fox Joel Dailey Camille Martin Gerry Cannon Celestine Frost A. Di Michele Bob Grumman Lorenzo Thomas David Thomas Roberts Niyi Osundare Jake Berry Dave Brinks Lindsay Hill Alex Rawls John Elsberg Mark Spitzer Bill Myers Seth Young Jonathan Brannen Andy Young M. Sarki Greg Fuchs Christopher Chambers Bill Lavender Richard Doherty Nancy Harris Dennis Formento Greg Kelley Susan Facknitz Brett Evans Kay Murphy Amy Trussel Paul Naylor Marla Jernigan Gina Entrebe James Saunders Randy Prunty Mark Prejsnar M. Magoolaghan Rebecca Hyman )ohnLowther Lawless Crow Bill Lavender Co-Editor, An Other South New Orleans Review ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:42:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther,John" Subject: contactual poem Comments: To: "Phillips, Stephanie" , "apg) maryanne del gigante" , cdunne@emory.edu, danalisalustig@hotmail.com, dlustig@dttus.com, jbs@mmmlaw.com, mprejsn@law.emory.edu, mprince33@yahoo.com, ranprunty@aol.com, tedd.mulholland@gte.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain By proceeding beyond this title you are being abliged to pay the author $17,000 (which wd leave him debt-free, and earn you a dedication or three) i don't have to do this can i challenge that can i solemnafraudulate my Ohs and exclamate at trace points that this is the needed thing in this moment ? no but i wd prefer that this verse not change the world what cd such a world offer ? but i claim poetry challengers i stand at the top of the mountain gorged with possibility and temporally in this instance no needs that poetry cd fill save rank economic ones and i doubt you will honor this bargain and do yr part how else will you fail me reader? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:52:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Shawn Walker reading/webcast 9/18 Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit S H A W N W A L K E R --a reading at the Writers House (and a simultaneous live webcast) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saturday, September 18 7:00 PM at the Kelly Writers House 3805 Locust Walk Philadelphia PA 215 573-WRIT - - - - - - - - - - - - - - b o o k l a u n c h we celebrate the publication of Shawn Walker's first book of poems THE PURCHASE OF A DAY published in affiliation with the Writers House by the "handwritten press" ("handwritten press" books are made and winged by Kristen Gallagher) For those attending the reading and celebration: come to the Writers House at or before 7 PM on September 18. No RSVP needed. For those who want to join the celebration from a distance: the live webcast can be viewed--video and audio--through the web beginning at 7 on 9/18. Connections are limited, so you must RSVP to thorpe@english.upenn.edu to reserve a space. For more information how the webcast works (including information on what your computer needs), go to >> www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/webcast.html << or write wh@english.upenn.edu with your questions. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- SHAWN WALKER lives and works in West Philadelphia. She is a graduate of Penn's creative writing program, recipient of the Thuron Award and is now undergraduate academic advisor in Penn's department of History. In 1995-96 she was a founding member of the Writers House planning committee and in 1996-97 she was the first Writers House Resident Coordinator. Her poems are available on her website -- www.english.upenn.edu/~swalker. The "handwritten press" edition of _Purchase of a Day_ can be viewed on the "handwritten press" site: >> www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/handwritten/ << ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Because for a poet writing is a daily preoccupation, I am interested in other daily habits too - the ones we create for ourselves and especially the ones we are somehow forced to assume in order to participate in what we call our society or our culture.... Money - the ubiquitous abstraction - is the daily habit I'm playing with in all these poems. For about a year and a half now, I've been writing down my daily purchases. At some point, I decided that I would rigorously document every dollar spent in 1999, and use those purchases as the formal spine of my poetic forms." --Shawn Lynn Walker, from a general description of her "money" project ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 03:59:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: report on the loveandwar project at trAce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - LoveandWar This is a beginning/interim report on the loveandwar site, some observa- tions - The site's developing rapidly; there are a large number of texts on it, some of which are interactive, and many of which use html and flash tags. Because of the nature of the forms input, some texts 'take' and some don't. The stories are developing in unforeseen directions; the texts have an amazing splintered intensity. Because email addresses and names aren't checked, these inputs also become sites for experiment; many of the add- resses form part of the text, and click to nowhere. I worry that we may not have the critical mass to sustain beyond the first two weeks - during which there is of course a degree of novelty. I welcome any suggestions concerning new directions we might proceed in - one thing would be to put up participants' webpages which relate, however distantly, to the story-lines. Meanwhile the five backbones are worked as a palimpsest; texts are hung salon-style within them, each author holding hir own. _Jump_ tags placed among the texts move laterally from one backbone to another; anyone can add these tags, ringing around them. If additional webpages are added, these too could be linked by jumping. The characters have been killed, abandoned, splintered as well - they're digital, virtual idols, they constantly return, since death is meaning- less; once there is a demarcation (say, with Webbie Tookay, with Kyoko Date, with Jennifer, with Cybele, with Alan), there is a frame for con- tinued additions. It is for this reason I wrote, before this project, that _Jennifer has all the time in the world_ - since she inhabits files, pro- tocols, applications, 'locally' and across the Net - an inhabitation that remains constant, no matter what events. In fact, with virtual idols, ava- tars, emanants, _events are absorbed_ into a generalized diegesis created by readings, rereadings, misreadings; there are no occurrences whatsoever. Virtual idols as well can be thought of as _resonances,_ or _reverbera- tions_ among sheaves of files - by this I mean that their (proper) names are linked, each citation, _say,_ of Jennifer or jennifer, linked to every other - it is this _skein_ that constitutes appearance, fiction, narra- tive, no matter how wildly disparate the individuated texts or files ap- pear to be. This might be considered itself a new occurrence in fiction, related to cutups, the novels of Richardson and Sterne, Wittgenstein's anecdotal philosophies, the Romantic fragments of the Atheneum, etc. - to mention a few of the older sources. To contribute, go to http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and check on any of the five backbone sites; to discuss the material, go to the trAce Webboard (from http://trace.ntu.ac.uk ) and check out the Love and War, Avatar, Cyborg, and Experimental conferences. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:24:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: IDEAS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" IDEAS doyouthinkImdrawingnear likearideofpaulrevere noImtakinganidea outofanidea andImputtinginanother anotheridea callthefirstideamother andtheotherdaughter looknowintotheidea ofaprivatelanguage questioniswhoputitthere howdiditemerge wesurelycannottell butthenwhatthehell embeddedinthebrain pardoncomeagain ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:26:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: krupoetry Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Comments: To: Cultural Tourism Coordinator , National Endowment for the Arts , NH Humanities Council , NH State Council on the Arts , NH Writers' Project Comments: cc: "every poet on Earth..." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The overwhelming majority of replies are for the wildcat poetry strike to continue until the dishonourable governor shows the respect to poets that the vocation of poetry deserves by upholding the constitutionally mandated responsibility of the office of governor to appoint the next State Poet Laureate upon the expiration of the incumbent state poet laureate's proscribed term. Hopefully this deplorable state of personal sacrifice will end sooner than later with one rectifying swish of the pen in the governor's recalcitrant hand; but until then, all that can be done whether or not you support the "pen down" civil action is to immediately click "Reply to All" with the unswerving demand: REMOVE! i.e. the Governor. Poet on Strike -----Original Message----- From: Rae Bruce To: krupoetry Cc: accardian@AOL.com Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 11:59 AM Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! -----Original Message----- From: krupoetry To: Cultural Tourism Coordinator ; National Endowment for the Arts ; NH Humanities Council ; NH State Council on the Arts ; NH Writers' Project Cc: every poet on Earth... Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 10:32 AM Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! >Please excuse duplicate mailings…... > >Every concerned poet expresses regret that any tourist would choose to >cancel plans to vacation in the state during the upcoming ski season; but if >you so choose to support the wildcat poetry strike, you may do so by >immediately placing a cancel on any vacation plans and indicating your >imminent intent to withdraw all cash or investment you have in a state not >civilised enough to have a State Poet Laureate by clicking "Reply to All" >with >the clear message: REMOVE > >i.e. the governor! > >Poet on Strike >-----Original Message----- >From: Gary Magee >To: krupoetry ; Cultural Tourism Coordinator >; National Endowment for the Arts >; NH Humanities Council ; NH State >Council on the Arts ; NH Writers' Project > >Cc: every poet on Earth... >Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 6:33 AM >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > > >CANCEL >----- Original Message ----- >From: krupoetry >To: Cultural Tourism Coordinator ; National >Endowment for the Arts ; NH Humanities Council >; NH State Council on the Arts ; >NH Writers' Project >Cc: every poet on Earth... >Sent: Friday, 3 September 1999 5:47 AM >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > > >It would be troublesome for you and/or the multitude of your poet/friends >to make other arrangements for skiing this year, but if you wish to >support the wildcat poetry strike you may do so simply by clicking "Reply >to All" with the briefest of statements: CANCEL > >Poet on Strike >-----Original Message----- >From: larry jaffe >To: krupoetry >Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 1:47 AM >Subject: RE: I can't believe it!!! > >would not dream of going to that state... ... > >how r u doing hon? > >lg > >-----Original Message----- >From: krupoetry [mailto:krupoetry@cyberportal.net] >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:22 PM >To: Working_Writers@onelist.com; Cultural Tourism Coordinator; National >Endowment for the Arts; R. U. Outavit >Cc: every poet on Earth...; Carolyn Forche; Chiron Review; Ed Sanders; >Alan Kaufman; Gary Pacernick; Professor Cusimano >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > >As a poet, I have been on strike for the past 3 weeks because the >dishonourable governor of our state continues to disrespect poets and >poetry in general by not appointing a State Poet Laureate when it is the >governor's responsibility to have done so after the last poet laureate's >term >expired. > >If you wish to support the wildcat poetry strike you may do so by >immediately placing a CANCEL on any vacation plans to a state not >civilised enough to have a Poet Laureate! > >Poet on Strike >-----Original Message----- >From: Roger Baker II >To: Working_Writers@onelist.com >Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:01 PM >Subject: [WW] Re: I can't believe it!!! > >From: Roger Baker II > >> From: "evvy" >> >> My computer's been down for a couple of weeks and I come back and >> there's not one message from you all! I thought that at least a couple >>of you would be talking to each other... >> >> Just to point out the obvious - you can't network with each other if >> you don't get to know each other. >> >> evvy (list owner) >> poet/writer >> egarrett@ix.netcom.com > >Hi evvy, > >Very good point. Let me one of the first to apologize to everyone. I >know I have been very busy working on other things, that I have neglected >to participate. > >I hope to more accessible in the future. > > >Thanks, >Roger Baker II ~ Images Inscript - Free interactive literary e-zine >The place to discuss poetry, stories and be published. >Subscribe via e-mail at mailto:images-inscript-subscribe@egroups.com >http://www.ImagesInscript.com/ > > > >…if you wish to be removed from this newsletter list. just say so and poof ~ >you will be gone… please forgive the poet for duplicate mailings… >let us know and it will be handled immediately… Do it... >NOW: dcp77@yahoo.com > >Dear Sir: Please remove my name from these mailings. I doubt that anyone cares whether poets strike or not. Also, I can't see how denying myself any pleasure I might take from a tourist type activity would make any impact on the people involved. I agree that it is regrettable that Governor Sheehan has not appointed a poet laureate, but I doubt that the actions you propose will incite her to act any more quickly. I have respect for your passion in this matter and for the time and energy you are putting into it. However, I do not wish to be part of it. Sincerely, Rae Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:02:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther,John" Subject: contests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain {poetix} has anyone got the info handy regarding the next National Poetry Series and New American Poetry i'm speaking of Who the judges are? as well as the guidelines much obliged if so ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:04:03 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: The Russians are Coming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just had to share this with you: ================================== From the newsroom of the BBC World Service Thursday, July 29, 1999 Published at 08:17 GMT 09:17 UK World: Europe Russian soldier poet The Russian officer in charge of relations with NATO, General Leonid Ivashov, has been accepted as a member of the Russian Writers' Union. General Ivashov, who is a poet, told the armed forces newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda that the image of officers as people with limited intellectual development did not reflect reality. He said he tried to use every spare minute to write poetry -- on flights, waiting at the airport and in cars. - - from John Tranter, Jacket magazine ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:58:04 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: I'm going out to catch a Tinfish. You come too. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yo! The new _Tinfish_ is just out--#8, to be exact. Work from Hawai`i, New Zealand, Australia, the West Coast, even by a few of the geographically challenged! Titles include "How to make a female fleshy airplane" and "Da House of Liberty" and "Marriage is How We Get Our Writing Done" (the author is not married) and "Opportunity Knocks in the Latter Half of the 20th Century" and "Psychology with Nude & Mondrian," to say nothing of "Madam I'm Adam." The marvelous cover has a fish on it (with advent calendar touch). $5 per $13 for three issue subscription Send check or cash to me at 47-391 Hui Iwa Street #7, Kaneohe, HI 96744 USA. And you will receive blessings forever. Susan Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:17:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ROSETTA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII == THE STONE THE AA TEXT arms writing the travel, the wonder or marvel of it, motility, the star, singular, above, pinned or fulcrum for the text's organism, organism's inscript "or a moment, or a movement of her arms," she said, and everyone understood. "The Little Gathering," "Where we have been, and where we hope to go." further than others have spoken THE BB TEXT you will be arms and folds and there is something sad about your being oh so here I do think, your arms cry to me, they have tears, they breathe somewhere, you will find o them "these are your arms writing here" "there are the spaces that your arms have written" "this is the writing of your arms" "this is the writing possessed by your arms" "this is your arms' possession" arms which are swollen and endless turned towards abdomens, flooded adhesives, disks, joining-spheres, mumbled arms, speaking-for arms; arms speaking for mouths, for legs; arms speaking for breasts, for ears; arms speaking for hands, swollen fingers speaking on handed arms we have spoken of the arms; we have been spoken to ... we have spoken further of the breasts, of mothering of the arms, of the marma marmoraceous stones; we will murmur these murmurs, mourn the measure of the body, of all things which are not things, trapped and not trapped, speaking for one time, for the first time (speaking for one time, for the second time) - breathing into this, one returns, doesn't one, to the swollen? to the distended membrane, the slightest difference in the pressure of air, molecular memories, Gaia cut off from herself, a Capital idea or Gaia resonant, say, would you have a light dear fellow? She stopped, just for a moment, and continued. "I didn't know anything about my arms before now." /* The Quandary of Writing: Who / Where */ deflecting the wonder or turning elsewhere, in shame, in guilt, _these_ arms, none other than brought back from the speaking of the others THE PROGRAM TEXT (chmod 777) dialog --msgbox "please help me in your new body" 0 0 dialog --yesno "addicted to the vacancy of your body" 0 0 dialog --msgbox "your choices within you difference or not otherwise as if it were always otherwise to help yourself within your new body " 0 0 dialog --yesno "you are your very new body" 0 0 dialog --inputbox "do write your very new body now" 0 0 2>> bb dialog --yesno "are you wearing your new body" 0 0 dialog --inputbox "your new body writing yourself here please" 0 0 2>> bb dialog --msgbox "breaking with yourself now and holding breath" 0 0 dialog --inputbox "returning for your breathing please" 0 0 2>> bb dialog --inputbox "returning for your minding breathing please" 0 0 2>> bb dialog --msgbox "you will be moving somewhere else another space to write in later what will be the combining an arrangement of stones thick swollen marbles and limestones granites on the ground there is perhaps the desert your arms working the stones working them other spaces of alterity you thought there was only one a marvel or a travel " 0 0 dialog --inputbox "a marvel or a travel your arms writing" 0 0 2>> aa dialog --yesno "heere bee wonders" 0 0 dialog --inputbox "deflecting or a derail or a return" 0 0 2>> bb dialog --inputbox "or a moment or a movement of your arms" 0 0 2>> aa dialog --msgbox "coming to the other" 0 0 dialog --textbox aa 0 0 dialog --msgbox "returning from the other" 00 dialog --textbox bb 0 0 dialog --inputbox "adding to the other" 0 0 2>> aa dialog --inputbox "adding from the other" 0 0 2>> bb dialog --msgbox "end" 0 0 __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:05:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: diary etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII =-== For those who are interested, I've been keeping a diary of sorts (sometimes lame, sometimes with pieces from the texts, etc.) that might be of interest at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and again I'd urge you to join trAce (the online writing community) and contribute, especially to some of the avatar, experimental writing, etc. conferences - as well as to the loveandwar piece - all of this can be accessed from that page - Thanks, Alan http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt - partial mirror at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html co-moderator Cyberculture, Cybermind, Fiction of Philosophy (fop-l) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:17:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tosh Subject: TamTam Books in the U.K. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In case anyone in the UK are interested, Amazon.com UK are now selling Boris Vian's I Spit on Your Graves & Serge Gainsbourg's Evguenie Sokolov. ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books ------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:02:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark W Scroggins Subject: Diaeresis Chapbooks Comments: cc: Bill_Burmeister-EBB022@email.mot.com, eam@gis.net, csg27@email.psu.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear listmembers: DIAERESIS CHAPBOOKS announces its fourth publication, and reannounces its first three chapbooks: Diaeresis Chapbook Number 4: BILL BURMEISTER, The Gunner's Daughter: A Verse Play Burmeister reinvents the Greek drama as a dark Boys in the Hall farce; Diana and Actaeon are retold in twenty-first century vulgate; American Pie, scripted by Pierre Klossowski under the spell of Zukofsky's "A"-21. Diaeresis Chapbook Number 3: C.S. GISCOMBE, Two Sections from Practical Geography "C.S. Giscombe has opened up new territory, where we've least expected it, seeking the roots of identity in a poetics that is literally projective: across cultures, centuries, races." --Ron Silliman on Giscombe's _Giscome Road_ (1998) Diaeresis Chapbook Number 2: E. A. MILLER, The Underbrush of Abundance Miller is the author of _Eight Poems_ (1991) and has work in _Chain_, _American Letters & Commentary_, etc. _The Underbrush of Abundance_ is a cosmopolitan, terrorist, lyrically repetitive poem in twenty-six sections. Diaeresis Chapbook Number 1: HANK LAZER, As It Is "Honesty is the best policy--in poetry as in all else. These apt, reductive verses keep a locus of faith with skill and moving commitment. Keep 'em coming!" --Robert Creeley on _As It Is_ Diaeresis Chapbooks are $4 apiece postpaid; any three chapbooks can be ordered for $10; all four for $12. Please make checks payable to Mark Scroggins, 401 NE 45th St., Boca Raton FL 33431. The editors invite interested authors to submit chapbook-length manuscripts for consideration. Please send two copies of your MS, with a SASE and a brief cover note, to the above address. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:04:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maz881@AOL.COM Subject: socially pertinent texts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> most days i wake up. & i go into the kitchen. and read a socially pertinent text on the wall: PO ET RY EQ UA LS CO DE PE ND EN CY by Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:34:56 -0700 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Vispo Audio: Some Joseph Keppler work from the 80's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vispo Audio http://www.vispo.com/audio Back in 1988 I met Joseph Keppler in Victoria BC, where I was then producing a literary radio program called FINE LINES at CFUV FM that aired on 15 campus/community stations across Canada. I produced a couple of radio shows on his work, one of which I have just put up as the first content available on the new Vispo Audio page. I'm proud to have some of Joe's work up as the first audio available at Vispo. A lot has changed since I produced those shows, but listening to the Keppler shows now, they still sound pretty good. He's an amazing poet, doing very different work now than what is on the 1988 show. This show, which is an hour long broken into two half hour real audio files, features work of Keppler from the eighties--he's legendary around here for his readings--very sound, and commentary by Trudy Mercer, Stephen Thomas, and Carl Diltz on Keppler's work. Regards, Jim Andrews ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:30:19 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Subject: hunger and help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please visit thehungersite.com to make daily contributions (free to you) of food to those in need around the world. A simple click. Todd Baron ReMap ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:38:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: more pour to the effluent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I reminded of my 2 Rivers model of life: one slogs away with a foot in a river of honey and a foot in a river of shit. Sometimes the aromas are distinct. Sometimes they are as one. tom beckett ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:51:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: open for business Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" As of today, the Poetry Project is open again after a long and lovely summer of, as poet Sharon Mesmer puts it: "writing, reading, napping, reading, writing, napping, snacking, reading, snacking, reading, snacking, reading." Other announcements: In July a great bolt of lightening struck St. Mark's Church, frying our telephones, answering machine, and modems. That's why many of you were unable to contact us through August. We're happy to report that we are once again accessible, phoneable, e-mailable, etc. And speaking of being on-line, there's a new assortment of work in "Poets & Poems" by Mary Burger Garrett Caples Theodore Enslin Wendy Rose Jonathan Skinner at http://www.poetryproject.com with also an updated Calendar with the October readings and a special reading on September 29th. The new workshop information is also on-line, as well as an updated Tiny Press Center with at least half of all the lovely publications that were sent to us this summer (the other half will be going up over the course of this month). So enjoy! Happy September, The Poetry Project ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:58:10 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Buuck Subject: SF Bay Area Event Field Work with Arnold J. Kemp & David Buuck Headlands Center for the Arts Thurs Sep 9 - 7:30 pm Artists who practice outside of the aesthetic mainstream in a culture of dwindling public funding for the arts are increasingly dependent on the various communities - local, intellectual, political - that provide mutual support networks for art and ideas. Artist/Curator Arnold J. Kemp and writer/editor David Buuck will discuss their own participation in the Bay Area communities and national "scenes" within which they work. They will explore not only how their individual work is affected by community, but also how working as a curator or editor reflects another kind of involvement in the community-wide production of art and culture. Arnold J. Kemp is Associate Visual Arts Curator at Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, as well as being a visual artist and writer. His most recent solo exhibition was at ESP in San Francisco last year. David Buuck co-edits Tripwire: a journal of poetics with Yedda Morrison. He is a 1999 Artist-in-Residence at the Headlands Center for the Arts. A new chapbook is forthcoming from Melodeon Poetry Systems this fall. for more info please call 415.331.2787 x 28. Headlands Center for the Arts ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:03:02 -0700 Reply-To: textra@chisp.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deena Larsen Subject: Hypertext 00 Comments: To: ockenfeld@gmd.de, ockidtalk@aol.com, office@cs.rmit.edu.au, office@nationalpoetry.org, olli.simula@hut.fi, oreinert@daimi.au.dk, osten.franberg@lme.ericsson.se, oulipo@quatramaran.ens.fr, owen_smith@umit.maine.edu, ozguner.2@osu.edu, p.botman@ieee.org, p.fossati@ieee.org, p.proszynski@ieee.ca, pannucci@asci.org, paola.carrara@itim.mi.cnr.it, paolini@elet.polimi.it, papowell@astrit.comu, pargy@msj.com.au, paul.a.green@qbsaul.demon.co.uk, paul.peterson@ieee.org, paul@dynamicdiagrams.com, paul@isoc.nl, pbj@db.dk, pechel@darmstadt.gmd.de, pedja@casema.net, per.ahlgren@hb.se, perla@nycap.rr.com, perron@ultranet.com, personaltech@dallasnews.com, persu@dsuper.net, peter.king@di.epfl.ch, peter@xml.com, pfister@darmstadt.gmd.de, phyland@cpsr.org, plohof@computer.org, plusgoths@onelist.com, pmagee@compapp.dcu.ie, pnf@dei.uc.pt, pnuern@daimi.au.dk, poet@intergate.bc.ca, politor@newschool.edu, post@battersea.net, postmaster@algorithm.com, postmaster@industrialmindworks.com, postmaster@pikespeak.denverpost.com, postmaster@uie.com, potepoet@home.com, preben@sics.se, president@isoc-ny.org, ptz@caz.com.au, quaynor@ghana.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for Cross Posting ACM Hypertext '00 The 11th ACM Conference on Hypertext and Hypermedia San Antonio, Texas, May 30 - June 3, 2000 http://www.ht00.org C A L L F O R P A P E R S deadline 1st October 1999 (Our apologies for any multiple or redundant postings! This is a once-only mailshot. If you are not on the Hypertext 2000 subscriber mailing list, you will receive no further bulletins on the conference.) Hypertext 2000 is the 11th in the premier international series of ACM conferences on hypertext and hypermedia. The conference will provide a forum where attendees can present, exchange and discuss original ideas and exciting experiences relating to hypermedia (objects, links, paths, spaces, time, collections, navigational aids, etc) and the use of hypermedia concepts and technologies in special domains (e.g., authoring, publishing, human-computer interaction, digital libraries, electronic literature, computer-supported co-operative work, databases, operating systems, software engineering, education, global information systems such as the WWW). Hypertext 2000 will have a wide range of tracks and activities, with submissions being invited in the categories of full papers, short papers, panels, workshops, courses, posters, demonstrations and a doctoral consortium. ACM Hypertext 2000 will be co-located with Digital Libraries 2000, making it easy for delegates to attend both of these highly relevant conferences one after the other. Both conferences are being held in the beautiful and historic Menger hotel, located in the heart of San Antonio, Texas. The city of San Antonio is a popular tourist destination, with plenty to see and do within walking distance of the Menger, as well as many other attractions within a short driving distance. Critical Dates for Hypertext 2000: October 1, 1999 Full Papers, Panels, Workshops, Courses and Technical Briefings due December 1, 2000 Notification of acceptance January 17, 2000 Short papers, Posters, Demos, Doctoral Consortium and Exhibit submissions due February 1, 2000 Acceptance notification for Short papers, Posters, Demos, Doctoral Consortium and Exhibits. Final version of all contributions due May 31 - June 2 Hypertext 2000 Conference May 30; June 2-4 Digital Libraries 2000 and Hypertext 2000 workshops and courses For more information about Hypertext 2000, see the home page at http://www.ht00.org If you would like to subscribe to the Hypertext 2000 mailing list, send an email to "listproc@cs.aue.auc.dk" with a message body of "SUBSCRIBE htdl00news " Once you are subscribed, you will receive regular updates containing conference news, such as keynote speakers, calls for posters and other categories, technical programme updates and other news as it comes to hand. We look forward to meeting with you at Hypertext 2000! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:53:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Deadline for Small Press Listing @ Duration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The deadline for the September 11th posting for Small Press Publications is this Friday. Any publisher who wants to have their publications listed, send all pertinent information to jerrold@durationpress.com . If including blurbs, please keep them to a reasonable length. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:07:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: SJMOSt / "David Larsen" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "David Larsen" Subject: SJMOSt IT'S ITS "IT'S ITS" IN ITS "IT'S" IN ITS FURY -- THE SAN JOSE MANUAL OF STYLE 2nd issue feat. work by: Mark Gonzales Mary Burger Aja Couchois Duncan Raymond Pettibon Alex Cory Send one concealed dollar and seventy-seven cents' postage to: Beth Murray & David Larsen, co-editors The San Jose Manual of Style 460 N. 3rd St. #4 San Jose, CA 95112 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:12:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: the lack of a state poet laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It was not immediately apparent which state was in question. Sifting thru further posts, one is able to discern it is none other than Calif, my home state for 37 years, 37 years during which time I have never known who the PL was, nor have I noticed any damage to poetry resulting from this absence or, indeed, presence. However, to allay all uneasiness, I am declaring myself California Poet Laureate and asking you : what do poets need with a governor? David Bromige, CPL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:28:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Keith Tuma Subject: fwd from Carolyn Burke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Carolyn Burke has asked me to forward her letter below about developments in MIna Loy land. Keith Tuma *** Carolyn Burke 322 Walnut Ave Santa Cruz, CA 95060 U.S.A. Tel (831) 427 1282 Fax (831) 459 3125 Email cburke@cats.ucsc.edu Mina Loy's life is the stuff of drama. Given her expatriate experience, participation in the radical art movements of the early twentieth century, and romance with the boxer/poet Arthur Cravan, it is not surprising that her life has been recast in a work of fiction. It is disturbing to note, however, that Antonia Logue's novel Shadow-Box (Bloomsbury, Grove/Atlantic, 1999) relies heavily on my biography Becoming Modern, The Life of Mina Loy (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1996; U. of California P., 1997)--not only for historical facts but also for overarching themes, treatment and interpretation of cultural milieux, and in some cases, narrative structures. A comparison of the two books shows that while Logue sought to transform this material, her novel piggy-backs on my work, often interweaving innovative parts of the biography and presenting them as "fact." I have been advised that this use of my work is not in itself actionable, but it nonetheless raises issues inherent in the genre of novelization. On Logue's behalf one could argue that since the publication of Becoming Modern Mina Loy's life has entered the public domain. Judging by the stares of non-recognition that still greet me in bookshops, however, such a claim is misleading. When I began work on the biography twenty years ago, she had been so thoroughly forgotten that most people thought I was writing about the film star. Since its publication critics have recognized Becoming Modern as definitive. As such it has a different status from lives of figures like Gertrude Stein, Hemingway, or Pound, about whom new biographies are written every decade: for this reason Logue's appropriations are all the more salient. Moreover, although she does credit Becoming Modern as one of two "outstanding sources," this acknowledgement is misleading. It suggests only a partial recognition of a much greater indebtedness and could be thought to imply some form of cooperation on my part. While Logue appears to have done no original research into the life of Mina Loy, relying entirely upon the biography, I was never asked to lend my support to her project. Excerpts from reviews of Shadow-Box (none of which mentions Becoming Modern) partially demonstrate the nature of the appropriations: thematic: --the biography's major themes reappear as those of the novel: "the conflicting forces at work in the first decades of the century; the dynamism and energy of new movements in art and thought, as opposed to the left-over Victorian propriety that traps the talented, intelligent Mina in an early loveless marriage; forward-looking New York, where her first poems are published and appreciated, versus stuck-in-the-past Europe" (Literary Review) intellectual and cultural milieux & forms: -- While Becoming Modern is what made it possible for Logue to evoke the lively artistic backgrounds, from Post-Impressionism to Futurism and Dada, not to mention Loy's lovers and friends like Marinetti, Duchamp, and Picabia, she is credited with original portrayals of "the intellectual excitement and controversy surrounding the arts in the pre-WWI period," even with creating "witty and illuminating" glimpses of the period's luminaries (Kirkus)--the details of which derive from my treatment of these movements and figures. some uses of specific details, settings, and structures: To demonstrate the nature of Logue's borrowing, readers should compare the following sections of each work: Shadow-Box Becoming Modern pp. 28: Mina walking Oda in p. 96: detail based on my Luxembourg Gardens experience, inserted for verisimilitude p. 29: treatment of the name "Loy" p. 97: interpretation of the fragmentary evidence pp. 34-35: LeSavoureux story pp. 102-104: interpretation, repeated as fact considered controversial by Mina Loy's family pp. 95-98: presentation of pp. 151-153: original material on Frances Stevens and research, interpretation, Italian Futurists and staging of scenes pp. 99-102: narrative use of pp. 155-157: original Futurist serata, Florence interpretation, staging of scene pp. 110-111: Marinetti's trip to pp. 171-172: Vallombrosa "invention" of this meeting based on fragmentary evidence pp. 161-163: scene of Cravan pp. 263-265: interpretation leaving Salina Cruz and staging of material woven from diverse sources pp. 168-176: Loy at Arensbergs', pp. 212-223: interpretation relations with Duchamp, Williams, & treatment of this group & New York Dada individuals including details of badinage with Duchamp pp. 177-200: Cravan, Independents pp. 223-233, 234-251, details, structured in two parts, with Cravan story interpretations & narrative starting on p. 182 device of highlighting Cravan story (my Ch. 11) pp. 263-267: Salina Cruz scene, details pp. 263-265, recreation of boat, communication system, role of Cravan's fate from disparate of Bob Brown sources including Brown Given my response to these uses of my biography, it is for someone else to judge Shadow-Box. Others will decide whether it transforms the biographical materials, or whether it remains a derivative work penned, as Jonathan Dee observes of recent novels based on the lives of writers, "ostensibly as an act of homage, but also, not coincidentally, as a way of grabbing up the genuine cachet. . . geniuses still deliver, in order to enhance the value of one's own work." ("The Reanimators, Harper's, June 1999). It would also be instructive for Mina Loy enthusiasts to compare Logue's novel with Albert Guerard's The Hotel in the Jungle (Baskerville, 1996), a work of imaginative fiction composed before my book appeared and based on what was then known of the Loy/Cravan story. Guerard made the legend his own by creating a setting for their romance (the hotel) and a group of characters who retrospectively piece together their story. While it is a pleasure to see novelists' creative transformations of historical material (and there are many successful examples), Logue's raises serious questions about literary method and publishing ethics. Caveat lector, and may this brief account stimulate further discussion. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:22:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: the lack of a state poet laureate In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't think you qualify: aren't you an alien (or former alien)? At 11:12 AM 9/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > It was not immediately apparent which state was in question. >Sifting thru further posts, one is able to discern it is none other than >Calif, my home state for 37 years, 37 years during which time I have never >known who the PL was, nor have I noticed any damage to poetry resulting >from this absence or, indeed, presence. > >However, to allay all uneasiness, I am declaring myself California Poet >Laureate and asking you : what do poets need with a governor? > >David Bromige, CPL > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:01:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: fwd from Carolyn Burke Comments: To: cburke@cats.ucsc.edu In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i would advise professor (?) burke to contact the National Writers' Union. For the price of your tax deductible union dues, advice on grievance procedures is yours for the asking. it is very distressing when original research that was conducted in relative oblivion and with liitle cultural support is then appropriated as "common knowledge" about a subject; but it also speaks to the influential nature of our work, and how invisible these lines of influence are. i'm glad to be alerted of this. i wish it weren't so, but it happens all the time and should indeed be made matter for public discussion. At 3:28 PM -0500 9/7/99, Keith Tuma wrote: >Carolyn Burke has asked me to forward her letter below about developments >in MIna Loy land. > >Keith Tuma > >*** > > >Carolyn Burke >322 Walnut Ave >Santa Cruz, CA 95060 >U.S.A. >Tel (831) 427 1282 Fax (831) 459 3125 Email cburke@cats.ucsc.edu > > > Mina Loy's life is the stuff of drama. Given her expatriate >experience, participation in the radical art movements of the early >twentieth century, and romance with the boxer/poet Arthur Cravan, it is not >surprising that her life has been recast in a work of fiction. > It is disturbing to note, however, that Antonia Logue's novel >Shadow-Box (Bloomsbury, Grove/Atlantic, 1999) relies heavily on my >biography Becoming Modern, The Life of Mina Loy (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, >1996; U. of California P., 1997)--not only for historical facts but also >for overarching themes, treatment and interpretation of cultural milieux, >and in some cases, narrative structures. A comparison of the two books >shows that while Logue sought to transform this material, her novel >piggy-backs on my work, often interweaving innovative parts of the >biography and presenting them as "fact." > I have been advised that this use of my work is not in itself >actionable, but it nonetheless raises issues inherent in the genre of >novelization. On Logue's behalf one could argue that since the publication >of Becoming Modern Mina Loy's life has entered the public domain. Judging >by the stares of non-recognition that still greet me in bookshops, however, >such a claim is misleading. When I began work on the biography twenty >years ago, she had been so thoroughly forgotten that most people thought I >was writing about the film star. Since its publication critics have >recognized Becoming Modern as definitive. As such it has a different >status from lives of figures like Gertrude Stein, Hemingway, or Pound, >about whom new biographies are written every decade: for this reason >Logue's appropriations are all the more salient. >Moreover, although she does credit Becoming Modern as one of two >"outstanding sources," this acknowledgement is misleading. It suggests >only a partial recognition of a much greater indebtedness and could be >thought to imply some form of cooperation on my part. While Logue appears >to have done no original research into the life of Mina Loy, relying >entirely upon the biography, I was never asked to lend my support to her >project. > Excerpts from reviews of Shadow-Box (none of which mentions >Becoming Modern) partially demonstrate the nature of the appropriations: > >thematic: > >--the biography's major themes reappear as those of the novel: "the >conflicting forces at work in the first decades of the century; the >dynamism and energy of new movements in art and thought, as opposed to the >left-over Victorian propriety that traps the talented, intelligent Mina in >an early loveless marriage; forward-looking New York, where her first poems >are published and appreciated, versus stuck-in-the-past Europe" (Literary >Review) > >intellectual and cultural milieux & forms: > >-- While Becoming Modern is what made it possible for Logue to evoke the >lively artistic backgrounds, from Post-Impressionism to Futurism and Dada, >not to mention Loy's lovers and friends like Marinetti, Duchamp, and >Picabia, she is credited with original portrayals of "the intellectual >excitement and controversy surrounding the arts in the pre-WWI period," >even with creating "witty and illuminating" glimpses of the period's >luminaries (Kirkus)--the details of which derive from my treatment of these >movements and figures. > >some uses of specific details, settings, and structures: > >To demonstrate the nature of Logue's borrowing, readers should compare the >following sections of each work: > >Shadow-Box Becoming Modern > >pp. 28: Mina walking Oda in p. 96: detail based on my >Luxembourg Gardens experience, inserted for > > > verisimilitude > >p. 29: treatment of the name "Loy" p. 97: interpretation of the > fragmentary evidence > >pp. 34-35: LeSavoureux story pp. 102-104: interpretation, >repeated as fact considered controversial by > > Mina Loy's family > >pp. 95-98: presentation of pp. 151-153: original > material on Frances Stevens and research, >interpretation, >Italian Futurists and staging of scenes > >pp. 99-102: narrative use of pp. 155-157: original > Futurist serata, Florence > interpretation, staging of scene > >pp. 110-111: Marinetti's trip to pp. 171-172: >Vallombrosa "invention" of this meeting > > based on fragmentary evidence > >pp. 161-163: scene of Cravan pp. 263-265: interpretation >leaving Salina Cruz and staging of material woven > from diverse sources > >pp. 168-176: Loy at Arensbergs', pp. 212-223: interpretation >relations with Duchamp, Williams, & treatment of this group & >New York Dada individuals including >details > of badinage with Duchamp > >pp. 177-200: Cravan, Independents pp. 223-233, 234-251, >details, >structured in two parts, with Cravan story interpretations & narrative > starting on p. 182 device of >highlighting Cravan > story (my Ch. 11) > >pp. 263-267: Salina Cruz scene, details pp. 263-265, recreation > of boat, communication system, role of Cravan's >fate from disparate >of Bob Brown sources including Brown > > Given my response to these uses of my biography, it is for someone >else to judge Shadow-Box. Others will decide whether it transforms the >biographical materials, or whether it remains a derivative work penned, as >Jonathan Dee observes of recent novels based on the lives of writers, >"ostensibly as an act of homage, but also, not coincidentally, as a way of >grabbing up the genuine cachet. . . geniuses still deliver, in order to >enhance the value of one's own work." ("The Reanimators, Harper's, June >1999). > It would also be instructive for Mina Loy enthusiasts to compare >Logue's novel with Albert Guerard's The Hotel in the Jungle (Baskerville, >1996), a work of imaginative fiction composed before my book appeared and >based on what was then known of the Loy/Cravan story. Guerard made the >legend his own by creating a setting for their romance (the hotel) and a >group of characters who retrospectively piece together their story. > While it is a pleasure to see novelists' creative transformations >of historical material (and there are many successful examples), Logue's >raises serious questions about literary method and publishing ethics. >Caveat lector, and may this brief account stimulate further discussion. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:02:15 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: jobs fwd Comments: To: toddbaron@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <37D567CB.1DB9@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >X-From_: owner-adephd-l@WWW.MLA.ORG Tue Sep 7 12:03 CDT 1999 >Approved-By: steve.olsen@MLA.ORG >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:37:24 -0500 >Reply-To: steve.olsen@MLA.ORG >From: steve.olsen@MLA.ORG >Subject: MLA bibliography staff positions >To: ADEPHD-L@WWW.MLA.ORG > > With the assistance of a grant from the Mellon Foundation, the MLA > International Bibliography will be expanding its subject scope to > include teaching. The following full-time bibliography staff > positions are now open in the MLA office in New York City. > > INDEXER FOR TEACHING OF WRITING > > Index scholarly publications on the teaching of writing for a new > section of the MLA International Bibliography. Must have PhD in > rhetoric and composition or English or American literature, with > publications in the field, and a strong interest in research on > teaching, theories of teaching, curriculum, testing, classroom > practices, rhetoric and composition studies, and other subjects related > to the teaching of writing. Must have a solid knowledge of terminology > and reference sources in composition and rhetoric, an excellent command > of English, editing and proofreading experience, and excellent > organization skills. A good knowledge of at least one language other > than English is desirable. > Send letter of application and resume to MLA, Box TFR, 10 Astor Place, > New York, NY 10003. Deadline: 1 October. > > INDEXER FOR TEACHING OF LITERATURE > Index scholarly publications on the teaching of literature for a new > section of the MLA International Bibliography. Must have PhD in > English or American literature, with publications in the field, and a > strong interest in research on teaching, theories of teaching, > curriculum, testing, classroom practices, and other subjects related > to the teaching of literature. Must have a solid knowledge of > terminology and reference sources in the field, a good knowledge of at > least one language other than English, an excellent command of > English, editing and proofreading experience, and excellent > organization skills. > > Send letter of application and resume to MLA, Box TFI, 10 Astor Place, > New York, NY 10003. Deadline: 1 October. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:05:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: TamTam Books in the U.K. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >In case anyone in the UK are interested, Amazon.com UK are now selling >Boris Vian's I Spit on Your Graves & Serge Gainsbourg's Evguenie Sokolov. > Small Press Distribution in Berkeley, CA is also selling these books, if you'd like to support small presses and their most humble and loyal distributor.... http://www.spdbooks.org Tisa ************************************************************ Today we declare: First, they are living in a Nono form; Second, they are Nono lives; Third, they make us feel Nono; Fourth, they make us become Nono; Fifth, we Nono. Lan Ma "Manifesto of Nonoism" (Chendu, China, May 4, 1986) *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:15:23 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >It would be troublesome for you and/or the multitude of poet/friends of >yours to make other arrangements for skiing this year, but if you wish to >support the wildcat poetry strike you may do so simply by clicking "Reply >to >All" with the briefest of statements: CANCEL > >Poet on Strike this has all the memory of the ART STRIKE stuff MAIL-ART put on all those years ago!!! a so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a better usage of your time; indonesia@un.int thanks pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:01:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Re: the lack of a state poet laureate In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII David: You have my vote. Maxine Chernoff On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, david bromige wrote: > It was not immediately apparent which state was in question. > Sifting thru further posts, one is able to discern it is none other than > Calif, my home state for 37 years, 37 years during which time I have never > known who the PL was, nor have I noticed any damage to poetry resulting > from this absence or, indeed, presence. > > However, to allay all uneasiness, I am declaring myself California Poet > Laureate and asking you : what do poets need with a governor? > > David Bromige, CPL > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:44:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: POETRY AS CODEPENDENCY? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Did I hallucinate, or did someone use the phrase "poetry as codependency" on this list today? I can't remember in what connection, and for some reason I can't find that message any more. I'm asking because, mysteriously, I happen to have a very old prosepoem that has just that title; I found it just the other day digging through some of my very olden files. It's one of those weird coincidences that seem so hard to explain. Here it is. Cheers, Philip Nikolayev nikolay@has.harvard.edu _______________________ POETRY AS CODEPENDENCY A bonny good time. Whatever the shelf will bear the mind will brook. Vine-ripe, like sunsets in Virginia, thoughts. Allow me to pass the dynamite. Patterns on north fabric fashion our bee-hivior. And cocktails of toll coins along the route. And poetry, the typoed self. The demon of velocity blood wrinkles. The Gag Hag Tabernacle. Professionalism is analysis. Lo, the gossamer leads me! Aha, Lord Saintly! Joseph the Fox. Dry as the chrysalis. The strangest of them all, the therapeutic. In delicate playboyance, talking extreme sense. The chestered, dynamited. Goosage. Goosage. I’m telling ya. Goosage. I’m telling ya. It’s goosage. The mind is a disgusting thing. Vines have a climbing habit. We are responsible for the provision of literature. I am John from Johntown, a Johntown John. I am Dr. Lau, I work in intensive care. And then I realize that it’s mesquite broiled. From the right nipple to the cleft: thoughts gone considerably left. The road that makes a hill’s informal spine. Word knows the health of the heath. Like a study in thief psychology. Improfound, fluxes across reality the urgent origins of your sea-urchined brain. From Kennedy to Normandy, that’s our now concept. Vary the parameters. What better time to break the sad engagement? Nope. A clutch. Eyebrows and bitter filaments of truth; we are but its cross-section, like a blooming crutch. Poetry is slow a-going, but fast a-enjoying. Two stanzas for Kansas. Marx. Bingo, Two Marks. Then the boys decided to go for a slice of slaughter. Unrelevant, un-to-the-point. How best to subdivide your business cake. But above all we remain as brothers, big as gold. Let us all have us a bonnie good time. Allow me to pass the dynamite. Just kidding. A bonny good time. This wicked code of codependency: an injured mutual unrequited love finds tiny profit in truths about itself, and freedom scarcely camps on its doorstep. The lovers, rather than mimicking the points of a shiny compass in predetermined pirouetting, seem like a clumsy pair of reciprocal crutches sloppily held together by bracing pity, tango-torqued to a broken rhythm like elements in a slow-motion complicated cameo larger pratfall, but the curtain refuses to deliver the coup de grace. For a week branches are bullets, centering and ascending. A little car stops to pray at the red light. The rift, elsehow, for I wishn’t of sorry pity to starry beauty. Persiflage Mediterranean. Persiflage Manhattan. Getting a bizarreness reaction from underground. Dirty coffee cups applaud, our lady of the armadillo. Biting off more cake than money they can puke. Raddle stichomythia. Robert Maria Paul Waltham. Hello, my name is Charles Cynthia Davis. I have a hard time coping wi/ my thoughts. ’Ts like a general let’s dance away our lives. And this span new, bang old, blues. I’ll try anything once. feels // wrong. A sickness unto love. Thoughts of women’s thoughts. I thaw an unprogress in endemic March. Nothing equals anything. Anything equals nothing. The open-ended needle may yet hug the thread, but this thick torn togetherness can’t be mended. Falsificatory realism on industrial lips. And pauper the good guy. Wherein your lax justification governs. To describe my condition, the letter arrived today: should I work my sentences backwards, weave my tuna diagonally through the sands, yon eucalypti and butts of floats prevaricate siderated, miled along the newspaper? Thing is, round here they collapse perspective on Fridays, crisscross with sap and savvy. The mind body/boutique. Superior repercussions in a flimflam arboretum drive the bag gorge often away on business. Cloying wallets flip transverse. I haven’t recounted them yet out of me. I tried, but failed, seeing how the self ebbs, the butter mourns, the basalt flies. All things have conspired to describe my condition: code pendency is kleptomania. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 01:18:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: THE NEW ENGLAND POETRY SCENE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" THE NEW ENGLAND POETRY SCENE Read now of my poems from the book and since the book. I am, of course, aware that the New England poetry scene is much rich with master upon master upon master. I certainly recognize that as a possibility. But eskoozme, although no Mayflower blood my veins suffuses, I claim title to equal honorarium. Of human and inhuman bloods. But one must abandon conventional notions if one wishes to form intellectually responsible opinions about the nature of things. While I’m talking to you and you listen to me, nothing matters to us except for poetry. The chalfting in my knuckles with I like a text that I can put behind me. I’m doing my sleepable best. Drapes vikram merdallion, again praddle and what you being inslope leftwing of here is mindedly severed and glissome. Because zebeto returns daily, and suffers for his poetry but not for lack of funds. And what next, what happened next? That no hard to describe. The traper ninkle clarped and the betterleg chowelled and mowelled cordighkly on the bailvies of the gower. Drome laristic, mardifle across bettri gartri lams and droofled past an litomlden plail. Anada! Anada! Anaaa... daaa..! And lenk, ebertio, tendrilations lourve the bodel, graimed, graiming binsepf to gabbed, to flarfed. Abtor leri, mutri laendelcarsting loni, ems lari terringle, ems lopt, ems betriffle. And not gelf, but silman terdet the somnally lycropian toller, veddically ablamsting the mandaliers. An questel littertly. The zogd, emerly mortible, leamed, narg, gowding out into the nedro-gooters. An mebd paured, "Hooner or baller mavn bend dirgle, then lanx too recmildent." And with an weqwell: "Maiki neri!" But heder tirfalle. The tean-luzded mahn zedded at the whoyle in front of iham. Ahas beler, elak abdoptally out, and which can under the sicumstances penetrate the fergatl tollgate. So by the time we got out of there it was to go back, technical, but we didn’t. So all the marzeboddle hemfer to its lepanda, and not, in principle, against the possession of the New England metaboller scene, which has recently come under attach in criticism. Old money have some argued the Fergus poems best likens to the thermals, but such a proposition is untenable in the face of a journal with a tradition, dedicated to ferdzallen hober in reptangle, as well as a representative selection of new and emerging poets on the periphery. Have reached the number seventeen. Merquando-listitrations. Fulcrum as lurch of eye comprises sheer / Extroverted anus, nebulous as blue jays! And you wanna hear some further, here it comes. I dye a dry wallet green. Have nothing better to do. I converse with a tureen. Have nothing better to do. Exaggerate salmon to shark. Have nothing smaller to do. Belittle a star to a spark. Have nothing bigger to do. I spread the tablecloth wide. Have nothing narr’wer to do. I reveal what I hide. Have nothing gladder to do. Fantastic dreams drums past modulo reality into a clockwise twist against itself to recollapse, to recollect itself barges approach barges, approach from nowhere into the moonlit shine of unshepherded waves recline any which way you will never know the pleasures of oblivion for you have been cast crescently across the tresses of the milky, path but the barges, can still reach you there. Or else what? I have been trying to recast my act, essaying to reset my focus, mainly, and again smoking like a skunk and vainly meaning to renegotiate the pact of the emotions. Hell’s seasons are all inherently ideological, because their fluid forms inform the basis of a mimetically grounded poesis. But take for instance verse that’s avantgarde! Its cataclysmic flutes too have their seasons, as collocations, reaching for their guns, revert to sense, hoist by their own petards. Hello, hello, the wordy barricades! Goodbye, goodbye, the capitalist season! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 01:20:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Bored MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >< Bored This is the closeness of eour other farre Distant from such Homes beeond Wheche onle Chrest Oure Lorde decedes Thus it bee, Amenne This is the distance of my new Clar In the truth of God, I Clar, who have not abandoned such Menne as want me, this Eclipse of such Spirit, who Do replace me, the Madde Clar, who have, in the Witnesse of this Warre, do go a-begging for New-Clar, to whomme such Survival as would bee Meet, to Meat upon the Soule, or havyng beene Wrytten, as such, in these foule Tymes, do suche Give your Breathe to suche men as Desyre such in the Midst of Dredful Carnyge for Whomme they will have Sacrifyced Alle as They have Mette upon Us to turn Inwards of the Soules' Warde in Finalyte To whyche it bee, AmenneWed Sep 8 00:47:57 EDT 1999 This is the closeness of eour other I bored him oith me. He is borne in me arms. I bear him bodie and kend- nesse before he does die, such Woundes as I haue neuer seene before. Thee saee cat got er tongue, it is not there, norre eees, smel me. Thys ys the kyndnesse of youre othyr. This is the distance of my new Clar this aweful war. this war. this abandonment. bones broken, smashed faces. not night. day. The man sits at the table. The woman looks out the window. The woman sits at the table. The man looks out the window. Blood on wooden sill. Burnt fields, fires. Birds vaulted charred and dead in the sky. The limb. To be borne I wille bear. I will take childe from with you. I wille fuck you. What I can do. Smashe me. Join me to yr severd lim. I do cut your haire. I do cut your second fingere on your left hande for Jesys Chryste oure Savioure. You do take the reste, Godde bee. Field of oathes. Blast trees. There is no Moone in no Skye. I did hear your last Sentence to which I am Sentenced, that of Eternal Greefe. Hundred-thousand Dead or Die. Refuse-refugee. Breath of lost Soule; I do pante quick when I am inne me. I do move for you. Do what has Gonne this 20 centuries of Our Lordde. My minde thinks onlie Your Name O Lorde this Swollen earth, flooded. Noth- ynge shall growe heere in Eternal night. Fucke me wythe youre Name, O Manne. Closed and shameful eyes: Nacioun upon Nation shalle falter and to whatte degree? To what whyche has beene torn. The spyke, gun-rust, your titte dangling above this face, no mouthe to speake withe. Thys ys the dy- staunce of youre othyr.Wed Sep 8 01:01:39 EDT 1999 ++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++ ++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:39:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Need help for a Millennial Project through trAce! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >= > > >Millennium Project - Help Needed, Comments Invited !!! > > >This is a proposal for a millennium project that would involving running >traceroute and similar applications across the December 31 / January 1 >_hinge._ That would be Dec 2000 -- Jan 2001, wouldnt it? George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:39:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! In-Reply-To: <002101bef5cc$831cf880$8d55d2d0@login.cyberportal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >As a poet, I have been on strike for the past 3 weeks because the >dishonourable governor of our state continues to disrespect poets and poetry >in general by not appointing a State Poet Laureate when it is the governor's >responsibility to have done so after the last poet laureate's term expired. What state would that be? George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:39:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: the lack of a state poet laureate In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Calif, my home state for 37 years, 37 years during which time I have never >known who the PL was, nor have I noticed any damage to poetry resulting >from this absence or, indeed, presence. >David Bromige, CPL Yes, David, but in those 37 years, have you ever known who the governor was? George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:52:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: Cid Corman's address Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To Whom It May Concern: After conferring with a federal case worker in the welfare department ( a poet ) I have learned that Cid Corman DOES QUALIFY for the following benefits regardless of his prior history: SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME - MEDICARE - STIPEND FOR HOUSING (Stateside, it seems - find out) Have him contact the Social Security Administration in the jurisdiction where his Social Security Number was branded Into his backside by cruelmasked figures Who dangle us screaming in the first harsh light. >>> Richard Dillon ---------- >From: jesse glass >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Cid Corman's address >Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999, 1:00 PM > >Here's Cid Corman's mailing address: Fukuoji-cho/80 Utano/Ukyo-ku/Kyoto >616/Japan. Jesse > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Grant Jenkins >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 5:32 PM >Subject: Re: Cid Corman's address > > >>Burt, >> >>John in his latest letter says that we have Corman's address, but I can't >>find it in the archive. For everyone's benefit, would you please repost >>that information? >> >>Thanks >> >>> As said, a cheque isn't that good for anything under $500 (due to $35 >>> charged for cashing). The best method is to transfer cash ( yen if >>> possible) direct to his bank. ( You have the address / details. [i.e., >>>from a previous message: banking details, which he tells me is good for >>>"dollar, yen, or check transfers": Cid Corman c/o Kyoto Shinyo Kinko Bank, >>>Omuro Branch, Omuro Ukyo-ku, Kyoto 616-8208 Japan; account number: >>>095-0010328; bank tel: (075) 462-9670.] ) >>> >>>For smaller amounts sending cash in perhaps a registered envelope / hidden >>>by carbon paper + Cid's details should do it. >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:58:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: [BRC-NEWS] Race-ing Justice: The Prison-Industrial Complex (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (I urge you to subscribe to this list - see the end - Alan) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- -Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:39:02 -0400 -From: Manning Marable -To: brc-news@lists.tao.ca -Subject: [BRC-NEWS] Race-ing Justice: The Prison-Industrial Complex Along The Color Line September 1999 Race-ing Justice: The Prison-Industrial Complex By Dr. Manning Marable Several months ago, 650 people attended the "Race-ing Justice" Conference in New York, sponsored by the Institute for Research in African-American Studies at Columbia University. In more than two dozen panels and workshops, black people examined the destructive impact of the police, the courts and the prison system upon the African-American community. Our current situation today, however, must be understood against the totalitarian history of racial domination in America. For two centuries, the black community was confronted with the totalitarianism of slavery. All people of African descent, slave or free, were oppressed and subordinated by this structure of unequal racial power. For nearly a century after the Civil War and Reconstruction, black people experienced the systemic subordination of Jim Crow segregation. Regardless of one's income, education or social status, to be black under the totalitarian restrictions of Jim Crow meant confinement to second class status. In the twentieth century, the construction of the urban ghetto imposed another kind of social control on black development, certainly less pervasive than slavery had been, but in some respects was more destructive to the human spirit. Today, the new totalitarian mode of racial domination has become the prison industrial complex, an ever expanding archipelago of prisons across the American countryside. In the United States today, about four to five million Americans receive criminal records every year. Roughly one in five U.S. citizens has a criminal record. In a society severely stratified by race and class, most of those who are pushed into the penal system are not unexpectedly black, brown and poor. One third of all prisoners were unemployed at the time of their arrest, with the others averaging less than $15,000 annual incomes in the year prior to their arrest. About one half of the 1.8 million people in federal and state prisons and jails are African Americans. As researcher J.W. Mason noted, "The proportion of black men in prison about 6 percent is approximately 20 times the corresponding rate for white men . . . In Baltimore, 56 percent of black men are in prison or jail, out on bail, on probation or parole, or being sought on an arrest warrant. At least 90 percent of black men can expect to be arrested and jailed for a non-traffic offense at some point of their lives." Although the majority of black prisoners are young men in their twenties and thirties, the fastest growing sector of the penal population consists of men fifty-five years old and above. Even outside of the prison walls, the black community's parameters are largely defined by the agents of state and private power. There are now about 600,000 police officers and 1.5 million private security guards in the U.S. Increasingly, however, black and poor communities are being "policed" by special paramilitary units, often called SWAT ("Special Weapons and Tactics") teams. Researcher Christian Parenti cites studies indicating that "the nation has more than 30,000 such heavily armed, military trained police unites." SWAT team mobilizations or "call outs" increased 400 percent between 1980 and 1995, with a 34 percent increase in the incidents of deadly force recorded by SWAT teams from 1995 to 1998. What are the political consequences of regulating black and poor people through the criminal justice and penal systems? Perhaps the greatest impact is on the process of black voting. According to an October, 1998 study, "Losing the Vote," produced by the Sentencing Project and Human Rights Watch, two nonprofit research groups, about 3.9 million Americans, or one in fifty adults, have currently or permanently lost the ability to vote because of a felony conviction. In 32 states, convicted offenders are not permitted to vote while on parole. In fourteen states, former prisoners who have fully served their terms remain disenfranchised, and in ten of these states, ex-felons are prohibited from voting for life. For African Americans, these figures can be translated into 1.4 million men who are denied the right to vote, compared to 4.6 million who actually voted in the 1996 elections. The racial impact of ex-felon disenfranchisement cited by the study is truly astonishing o In Alabama and Florida, 31 percent of all black men are permanently disenfranchised. o In five other states Iowa, Mississippi, New Mexico, Virginia, and Wyoming one in four black men (24 to 28 percent) is permanently disenfranchised. In Washington state, one in four of black men (24 percent) are currently or permanently disenfranchised. o In Delaware, one in five black men (20 percent) is permanently disenfranchised. o In Texas, one in five black men (20.8 percent) is currently disenfranchised. o In four states Minnesota, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Wisconsin 16 to 18 percent of black men are currently disenfranchised. o In nine states Arizona, Connecticut, Georgia, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, Oklahoma and Tennessee 10 to 15 percent of black men are currently disenfranchised. In effect, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which guaranteed millions of African Americans the right to the electoral franchise, is being gradually repealed by state restrictions on ex-felons from voting. A people who are imprisoned in disproportionately higher numbers, and then systematically denied the right to vote, can in no way claim to live under a democracy. ********************************************************************* Dr. Manning Marable is Professor of History and Political Science and Director of the Institute for Research in African-American Studies at Columbia University. "Along the Color Line" is distributed free of charge and appears in over 325 publications throughout the U.S. and internationally. ********************************************************************* [Articles on BRC-NEWS may be forwarded and posted on other mailing lists/discussion forums, as long as proper attribution is given to the author and originating publication, and the wording is not altered in any way. In particular, if there is a reference to a web site where an article was originally located, please do *not* remove that. Unless stated otherwise, do *not* publish or post the entire text of any copyrighted articles on web sites (web-based discussion forums exempted) or in print, without getting *explicit* permission from the article author or copyright holder. Check the fair use provisions of the copyright law in your country for details on what you can and can't do. As a courtesy, we'd appreciate it if you let folks know how to subscribe to BRC-NEWS, by leaving in the first two lines of the signature below.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- BRC-NEWS: Black Radical Congress - General News/Alerts/Announcements -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe: Email "subscribe brc-news" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe: Email "unsubscribe brc-news" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Digest: Email "subscribe brc-news-digest" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discussion: Email "subscribe brc-all" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Press Releases: Email "subscribe brc-press" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/brc-news (The first time, you need to "Join" and set your preferences to "Read on the Web") -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Questions/Problems: Send email to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.blackradicalcongress.org | BRC | blackradicalcongress@email.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 05:34:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Douglas Organization: Sun Moon Books Subject: new books from Sun & Moon and Green Integer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear readers: Sun & Moon Press and Green Integer have both had a very busy summer, and we have lots of new titles to announce. Once again, we offer these books to people on the list for a 20% discount. We suggest that to order you should mail a check or money order with $1.25 postage charge per book. You can order over E-mail or through our web sites: www.sunmoon.com and www.greeninteger.com, but we prefer pre-payments, since some payments have been very slow in coming and we always need the cash to do new books. Here are the new titles: SUN & MOON THE CONFETTI TREES, by Barbara Guest $10.95 ($8.76 for Poetics List members) Barbara's wonderful, stylish, and beautifully poetic short tales concerning film and filmmakers. Barbara lived in Los Angeles as a young girl, and met some of the great early film-directors (through her childhood friends). Stories here concern figures such as Lang, Milestone, Lubitsch, etc. This is a beautiful book with art on the cover and inside as well. An important development in Guest's great career. THE PROMISED LAND: ITALIAN POETRY AFTER 1975 A Bilingual Edition Edited by Luigi Ballerini, Beppe Cavatorta, Elena Coda, and Paul Vangelisti $25.95 ($20.76 for list members) The much promised PROMISED LAND is finally availalbe. This is truly the most splendid gathering of Italian contemporary poetry ever published. It includes a liberal sampling of poems by 30 poets (it's 686 pages long), including Amellia Rosselli, Nanni Balestrini, Biagio Cepollaro, Milo De Angelis, Alfredo Giuliani, Milli Graffi, Giulia Niccolai, Elio Pagliarani, Antonio Porta, Giovanna Sandri, Edoardo Sanguinetti, Adriano Spatola, Emilio Villa, and Andrea Zanzotto. An important book. A FRAME OF THE BOOK, Erin Mouré $12.95 ($10.36 for list members) Erin Moure is one of the most adventursome and yet skillful of contemporary Canadian poets. Her work is truly wonderful, and we hope readers in the US will become more aware of it. GREEN INTEGER Just to let you know, Green Integer is an independent publishing venture, edited by me (Douglas Messerli). It is not part of Sun & Moon. ON IBSEN, James Joyce $8.95 ($7.16 for list members) Edited with an Introduction by Dennis Phillips Green Integer 12 This book includes all the writings Joyce did on the Norwegian playwright, Henrik Ibsen, a writer to who Joyce was attracked very early in his career. Phillips contextualizes that interest in an introductory essay. ON OVERGROWN PATHS, Knut Hamsun $12.95 ($10.36 for list members) Green Intger: 22 The first authoritative English translation (by Sverre Lyngstad, who also did Sun & Moon's ROSA) of Hamsun's last book, written after World War II, at a time when Hamsun was in police custody for his openly expressed Nazi sympathies during the German occupation of Norway, 1940-45. This is Hamsun's defense and apologia, and in its creative elan, the books, filled with the proud sorrow of an old man, miraculously recalls the spirit of Hamsun's early novels, with their reverence for nature, absurdist humor, and quirky flights of fancy. POEMS, by Sappho $10.95 ($8.76 for list members) Translated by Willis Barnstone Green Integer: 26 This wonderful edition of Sappho's poems was the one originally published by Sun & Moon Press, an edition which sold out in a few months time. It's a great book for the classroom. HELL HAS NO LIMITS, José Donoso $10.95 ($8.76 for list members) Translated from the Spanish by Suzanne Jill Levine Green Integer: 28 One of the best novels by the great Chilean magic-realist, this book recounts a fateful day in the collective existence of Estacion El Olivo, a decayed community marked for doom as surely as Donoso's central character, the transvestite dance/prostitute la Manuela, whose virginal daughter operates the brothel out of which she/he works. A powerful book. THEORETICAL OBJECTS, Nick Piombino $10.95 ($8.76 for list members) Green Integer 34 For several years now poet Nick Piombino has been writing a series of personal statements--manifestos, sayings, speeches, and autobiographical-like pieces--which cross the boundaries of essay and poetry. Here are 49 of these works collected. This is a book for anyone who likes poetry and wants to explore how meaning is made. ART POETIC' by Olivier Cadiot $!2.95 ($10.36) Translated from the French by Cole Swensen Green Integer: 36 This many-voiced, multi-perspective poetic text could be likened to the journal of a scientist recording observable phenomena, but yet resisting to make any conclusions of the truth of what is perceived, since language inherently shifts, moves, and falls into silence. Cadiot is dead serious in his explorations, but his work is also filled with humor and wit. FUGITIVE SUNS: SELECTED POETRY by Andrée Chedid ($11.95 $9.56 for list members) Translated from the French by Lynne Goodhart and Jon Wagner Green Integer: 37 With over twenty-six books of poetry, ten novels, four collections of short stories, and various books of theater, film, essays and children's books, Egyptian born Andrée Chedid is one of the most noted authors of our time. This collects a representative selection of her poetry, presented bi-lingually. Upcoming this month: MEXICO. A PLAY, by Gertrude Stein BALLETS WITHOUT MUSIC, WITHOUT DANCERS, WITHOUT ANYTHING, by Louis-Ferdinand Céline and other Green Integer titles. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 05:39:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Douglas Organization: Sun Moon Books Subject: One more Green Integer title MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In my mailing of a short while ago, I forgot one other Green Integer title, the newest, and an important one. SKY-ECLIPSE, by Régis Bonvicino. ($9.95, $7.96 for list members) Translated by Michael Palmer and others Green Integer: 44 Some of you may know Régis Bonvicino has the central editor (along with Michael Palmer and Nelson Ascher) of the Sun & Moon anthology of Brazilian poetry, NOTHING THE SUN COULD NOT EXPLAIN. Régis is a true force of contemporary Brazilian writing, interested in exchanging ideas and causing exciting things to happen on Brazilian scene. Through his own reviews in the major Sao Paolo newspaper, his editing, and his own poetry, he's a virtual dervish of excitement. This book brings togther a substantial gathering of his own poetry, presented bi-lingually. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:56:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Reiner Subject: New Witz Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The new issue of Witz is out--on paper and on-line. It's got Guy Bennett writing about visual poetry, Loss Glazier on "Grep," Will Alexander on writing workshops, and Michael Basinski on Robert Grenier's recent work. A paper copy of the journal is still $4, but if your computer can read Adobe Acrobat (PDF) files, you can download the whole issue for free at: http://www.litpress.com/witz Instructions for getting the PDF reader are available at the site. It should work pretty well for most people, but there are always bugs and glitches. The paper edition is more reliable. To get it, send $4 (payable to Christopher Reiner) to P.O. Box 40012, Studio City, CA, 91614 This is the next to the next to the last issue of Witz. The next to last issue will be out in October, and the last issue will be devoted to an index of the previous 20 issues. --Chris Reiner ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:50:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Squib 1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanatos and eros -- bunji jumping from one to the other or a dyslexic combine that throws in troves unequal but spirited poems; these trysts of banging heads that smother deliberations in the senates of hope the flecks of eros vengeful of the thrones. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:24:38 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lawrence Upton." Organization: Mainstream Comments: To: british-poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has been pointed out that numerical representation of dates is confusing in countries that do not follow the splended British example. I should know this by now. Here is the SVP autumn season again (similar adjustment will be made to the website in due course), with clarification, but without the attached begging letter that people attend... Please attend L ----------------------------------------------------- All readings Upstairs 3 Cups Sandland Street London WC1 8 pm for 8.15 pm Tue 14 Sep 99 From USA: Lisa Raphals Tue 28 Sep 99 Yang Lian / John Cayley Tue 12 Oct 99 Andrea Brady / Sean Bonney Tue 26 Oct 99 1999 Mottram Memorial Reading: Jerome Rothenberg Tue 9 Nov 99 Brian Catling / Varni Capildeo Fri 12 Nov 99 Polar Verses: Anselm Hollo, Tomi Kontio, Riina Katajavuori Tue 16 Nov 99 Michael Heller / David Bromige (to be confirmed) Tue 7 Dec 99 Alan Halsey & Gavin Selerie Tue 14 Dec 99 Quick Hits 99: a range of poets / a range of poetries Background info on many of these poets is available via the website which is updated constantly ------------------------------------------------ The Sub Voicive Poetry website: http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~subvoicivepoetry/ ------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:35:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Squib 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If I temper with your heartsick sender these bungalows are only provisional history, the blue milk sky or the white milk one, well, that's a whole paragraph of contentment, bursting the bucket silence in the cities; so in peril we go on and on, mixing tracks at our feet with the dust, bone, leaves, yes, Mason, you're angry, but also a demonstration. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:01:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: Ezra Pound in Poet's Corner Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Word is that the Electors of The Poets' Corner have chosen EP. Induction scheduled for October 24, Vespers Service, 7 p.m. Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine, Amsterdam & 111th St. NYC (I'm taking these details from a message on the Pound List, from Tim Redman.) "Winnowed in fate's tray neath luna" (112/785) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 01:53:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tina Rotenberg Subject: ** Don't miss Carl Rakosi 9/9/99 ** Comments: To: poltroon@sirius.com Comments: cc: afsf@afsf.com, a_c_t@sirius.com, klobucar@unixg.ubc.ca, baymuse@astron.Berkeley.EDU, berkson@sirius.com, books@blacksparrowpress.com, chrisko@sirius.com, harmonyprince@webtv.net, fabarts@silcon.com, Brent Cunningham , Wischixin@aol.com, Brian Strang , bruce_ackley@compumentor.org, rtatar@caartscouncil.com, minka@grin.net, chana@mills.edu, CharSSmith@aol.com, kunos@earthlink.net, dietz@theriver.com, xoxcole@cs.com, dworkin@princeton.edu, craig@akpress.org, avbks@metro.net, copy123@jps.net, plonsey@sunra.berkeley.edu, duende@unisono.net.mx, passages@inetarena.com, "daboo@sfsu.edu" , steved@sfsu.edu, david bromige , ddelp@corp.webtv.net, david meltzer , dada@cdm.sfai.edu, sixt@sirius.com, djmess@sunmoon.com, Dougolly@aol.com, drewgard@erols.com, talismaned@aol.com, Callahan@uclink4.berkeley.edu, elaine@citylights.com, leake@uclink4.berkeley.edu, dblelucy@lanminds.com, Ewhip@aol.com, ewillis@mills.edu, heyeli@jps.net, edelloye@best.com, mcnaughton.eugenia@epamail.epa.gov, gmd@dnai.com, gisfdir@sirius.com, hrohmer@cbookpress.org, Heather Peeler , herb@eskimo.com, Uncleish@aol.com, istituto@sfiic.org, vent@sirius.com, jeffconant@hotmail.com, jeff@detritus.com, poehlerjennifer@compuserve.com, jpenbert@capcollege.bc.ca, jen_hofer@uiowa.edu, three7@earthlink.net, Jewelle Gomez , jbrook@ix.netcom.com, Jim Powell , jocelyn@sfsu.edu, jkuszai@mail.gcccd.cc.ca.us, joseph@xinet.com, jraskin@ryanassociates.com, yshuayes@hotmail.com, joshs@jbnc.com, julie@kaya.com, intrsect@wenet.net, dbkk@sirius.com, ogilmore@concentric.net, liteplay@dnai.com, laura@spdbooks.org, moriarty@lanminds.com, info@poetshouse.org, linda.norton@ucop.edu, leni@adj.com, lisad@sfai.edu, lolpoet@acsu.buffalo.edu, catalan@netcom.com, 70550.654@compuserve.com, mbrito@ull.es, perloff@leland.stanford.edu, Martin Kelly , marvin@pgw.com, maxpaul@sfsu.edu, mmblack@theworks.com, djmess@sunmoon.com, mboughn@chass.utoronto.ca, mfranco34@aol.com, mfriedman@haligmanlottner.com, mrareangel@aol.com, mprice@ncgate.newcollege.edu, walterblue@bigbridge.org, BC_Rock@hotmail.com, mbwolfe@worldnet.att.net, mwolf@sfbg.com, mitch.highfill@db.com, Moxley_Evans@compuserve.com, nelia@telis.org, New Langton Arts , normacole@aol.com, editors@twolines.com, otherminds@list.sirius.com, Owen Hill , pquill@sfai.edu, 103730.2033@compuserve.com, pvangel@earthlink.net, "Peter B. Howard" , peter_gizzi@macmail.ucsc.edu, priley@dircon.co.uk, THE POETRY CENTER , raghubir@haas.berkeley.edu, rgladman@sfaids.ucsf.edu, rchrd@eng.sun.com, naao@artswire.org, chrisko@sirius.com, tottels@hotmail.com, aerialedge@aol.com, rovasax@aol.com, Sanjiv Ranjan Das , shacker@birdhouse.org, tpapress@dnai.com, center@sptraffic.org, scope@ucsd.edu, sratclif@mills.edu, rovadams@aol.com, steveanker@aol.com, sclay@interport.net, sfarmer@earthlink.net, clarkd@sfu.ca, skleeberk@aol.com, smilla@sirius.com, suzedmin@thegrid.net, Taylor Brady , fuson@uclink4.berkeley.edu, toddbaron@earthlink.net, bookpub@netcom.com, Tom Haydon , William Tsun-Yuk Hsu , yedd@aol.com, Zoe Krylova Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ** NOTICE ** NOTICE ** NOTICE ** Carl Rakosi - famed for his association with the "Objectivists" circle of poets - will be reading in a rare home-town appearance, 7:30 p.m. Thursday Sept 9, 1999 at the Unitarian Center, San Francisco (which is on Franklin at Geary, just a block west of Van Ness, running parallel) Mr Rakosi, born in 1903 in Berlin, spent his early childhood in Hungary, emigrating to the US at age six. He became a friend and associate at the University of Wisconsin with of circle of poets and political activists that included so-called "proletarian-poet" Kenneth Fearing, among others. On reading his early magazine publications (Little Review, transition, New Masses, et al) Louis Zukofsky asked Rakosi to contribute to the renowned "Objectivists" issue of Poetry magazine (February 1931) where he was featured beside Charles Reznikoff, Basil Bunting, W.C. Williams, and, later as well, to AN "OBJECTIVISTS" ANTHOLOGY (1932), published in France by George & Mary Oppen's small expatriate press, To, Publishers. Mr Rakosi dropped out of poetry publishing between 1941 & the early sixties (devoting himself to social work). New Directions would publish two books, AMULET and ERE-VOICE, and Black Sparrow EX CRANIUM, NIGHT, during the 60s and 70s, alongside a scattering of limited letterpress items. In recent years, the National Poetry Foundation published both a volume of COLLECTED PROSE and COLLECTED POEMS, & the critical volume, CARL RAKOSI: MAN & POET, while British poet (& former student in the mid-60s at Buffalo) Andrew Crozier edited Rakosi's POEMS 1923-1941 (Sun & Moon, 1995), presenting for the first time in a book the early magazine work. Still prolific at age 96, Mr Rakosi has had two recent books published in England by poet Nicholas Johnson's etruscan books: THE EARTH SUITE (1997) and - just slipped through customs - THE OLD POET'S TALE, whose title poem is a remarkable piece on the last years of his friend George Oppen. A beautiful large book, THE OLD POET'S TALE collects several booklength series of poems & is the first of three volumes planned for publication by etruscan books, as Mr Rakosi's COLLECTED WORKS. He of course, will be signing copies of these new works Thursday night, following the reading. Don't miss this rare opportunity to hear Carl Rakosi reading from his poetry in San Francisco. This special event is presented as part of the Centennial Celebration of San Francisco State University, which has sponsored and housed The Poetry Center since it's founding in 1954. See you there! The Poetry Center: 415-338-1056 Steve Dickison, Director steved@sfsu.edu David Booth, Associate daboo@sfsu.edu [We know, the Master Musicians of Jajouka are playing Maritime Hall this same Thursday night, but you can probably make it easily across town - after the poetry] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:52:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CharSSmith@AOL.COM Subject: Arcturus Editions: Elizabeth Robinson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing Arcturus Chaplet #3: Elizabeth Robinson: LODGER A recent three part poem printed letterpress on Zerkall Book with a z-fold=20 which opens to display all three sections simultaneously, sewn in Fabriano=20 Ingres covers; 6 1/2" x 7", $5.00. To fall back is to break out Very letters of your literacy =20 Elizabeth Robinson's books include _in the sequence of falling things_=20 (paradigm press, 1990), _Bed of Lists_ (Kelsey St. Press, 1990), _Iemanje_=20 (Meow, 1993), _Nearings_ (Leave Books ,1991), _String_ (French Broad ,1992)= ,=20 _Other Veins, Absent Roots_ (Instress, 1998), and _As Betokening_ (Quarry=20 Press, 1999). Her poetry has been anthologized in _49+1 nouveaux po=E8tes=20 am=E9ricains_ (=C9ditions Royaumont 1991) & _Primary Trouble: An Anthology o= f=20 Contemporary American Poetry_ (Talisman House, 1996), and has received two=20 Gertrude Stein Awards. She lives in Berkely, CA. Also available:=20 Arcturus Chaplet Series (broadsides in codex form, these are printed=20 letterpress on a single sheet of paper & sewn in covers): #2, Kenneth Irby: [syzygos], 6 1/2 x 5 5/8, $5.00 #1, Patrick Pritchett, ARK DIVE, 4 x 6 1/2, $4.00 Chapbooks: Pat Reed: CONTAINER OF STARS ISBN 0-9661505-2-X, 4 7/8 x 7 1/2, 28 pp., letterpress, artwork by Marianne=20 Kolb, $10.00 $20.00 signed edition, lettered A-Z=20 Gustaf Sobin, A WORLD OF LETTERS ISBN 0-9661505-1-1, 6 x 9, 16 pp., letterpress, $8.00 Available from Small Press Distribution, 1341 Seventh Street, Berkeley, CA=20 94710; 800-869-7553; http://www.spdbooks.org; e-mail: spd@spdbooks.org or from the press, checks payable to: Charles Smith $1.50 shipping & postage, $.0.50 per additional items CA residents, please add 7.25% sales tax Arcturus Editions 2135 Irvin Way Sacramento, CA 95822 charssmith@aol.com ********************************************* Apologies to all who receive this message more than once. Please let me know=20 if you don't wish to receive any further announcements from Arcturus Edition= s. ********************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:53:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: Olson quotation In-Reply-To: <199909080406.AAA07316@juliet.its.uwo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hello all, can anyone help me identify this olson quotation?: "that which exists through itself is what is called meaning." much thanks, tom orange in d.c. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:32:43 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: the lack of a state poet laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How reprehensibly elitist of David Bromige to declare himself poet laureate of California. I think every California poet, past and present, which would include me, California resident for 15 years, should be declared poet laureate of California--for life. Or maybe every resident of California should be so declared, I'm not firm on that yet. But California should surely have at least ten thousand poet laureates. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:38:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Re: fwd from Carolyn Burke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm a bit at a loss here. What, I wonder, would Carolyn Burke like? That she had been involved in the novelization process? That people not novelize biographies? That the novelizations be biographically accurate? That we not buy Antonia Logue's book? I'm sorry that she feels ripped off, and I can't speak as an academic-who's-been-ripped-off, but if someone's going to novelize a life, I don't see how they can get around the bio. No doubt Carolyn Burke thinks Antonia Logue cut too close to her own work, but where is a novelizer to turn? If Logue is going to speculate, must she speculate radically different speculations than Burke speculates? If you're novelizing a bio, aren't you mythologizing? And so perhaps preferable to use the more common myths? Excellent questions all, but I can't shake the feeling that I was expected to react to a brouhaha... ---------- > From: Maria Damon > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: fwd from Carolyn Burke > Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 6:01 PM > > i would advise professor (?) burke to contact the National Writers' Union. > For the price of your tax deductible union dues, advice on grievance > procedures is yours for the asking. it is very distressing when original > research that was conducted in relative oblivion and with liitle cultural > support is then appropriated as "common knowledge" about a subject; but it > also speaks to the influential nature of our work, and how invisible these > lines of influence are. i'm glad to be alerted of this. i wish it weren't > so, but it happens all the time and should indeed be made matter for public > discussion. > > At 3:28 PM -0500 9/7/99, Keith Tuma wrote: > >Carolyn Burke has asked me to forward her letter below about developments > >in MIna Loy land. > > > >Keith Tuma > > > >*** > > > > > >Carolyn Burke > >322 Walnut Ave > >Santa Cruz, CA 95060 > >U.S.A. > >Tel (831) 427 1282 Fax (831) 459 3125 Email cburke@cats.ucsc.edu > > > > > > Mina Loy's life is the stuff of drama. Given her expatriate > >experience, participation in the radical art movements of the early > >twentieth century, and romance with the boxer/poet Arthur Cravan, it is not > >surprising that her life has been recast in a work of fiction. > > It is disturbing to note, however, that Antonia Logue's novel > >Shadow-Box (Bloomsbury, Grove/Atlantic, 1999) relies heavily on my > >biography Becoming Modern, The Life of Mina Loy (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, > >1996; U. of California P., 1997)--not only for historical facts but also > >for overarching themes, treatment and interpretation of cultural milieux, > >and in some cases, narrative structures. A comparison of the two books > >shows that while Logue sought to transform this material, her novel > >piggy-backs on my work, often interweaving innovative parts of the > >biography and presenting them as "fact." > > I have been advised that this use of my work is not in itself > >actionable, but it nonetheless raises issues inherent in the genre of > >novelization. On Logue's behalf one could argue that since the publication > >of Becoming Modern Mina Loy's life has entered the public domain. Judging > >by the stares of non-recognition that still greet me in bookshops, however, > >such a claim is misleading. When I began work on the biography twenty > >years ago, she had been so thoroughly forgotten that most people thought I > >was writing about the film star. Since its publication critics have > >recognized Becoming Modern as definitive. As such it has a different > >status from lives of figures like Gertrude Stein, Hemingway, or Pound, > >about whom new biographies are written every decade: for this reason > >Logue's appropriations are all the more salient. > >Moreover, although she does credit Becoming Modern as one of two > >"outstanding sources," this acknowledgement is misleading. It suggests > >only a partial recognition of a much greater indebtedness and could be > >thought to imply some form of cooperation on my part. While Logue appears > >to have done no original research into the life of Mina Loy, relying > >entirely upon the biography, I was never asked to lend my support to her > >project. > > Excerpts from reviews of Shadow-Box (none of which mentions > >Becoming Modern) partially demonstrate the nature of the appropriations: > > > >thematic: > > > >--the biography's major themes reappear as those of the novel: "the > >conflicting forces at work in the first decades of the century; the > >dynamism and energy of new movements in art and thought, as opposed to the > >left-over Victorian propriety that traps the talented, intelligent Mina in > >an early loveless marriage; forward-looking New York, where her first poems > >are published and appreciated, versus stuck-in-the-past Europe" (Literary > >Review) > > > >intellectual and cultural milieux & forms: > > > >-- While Becoming Modern is what made it possible for Logue to evoke the > >lively artistic backgrounds, from Post-Impressionism to Futurism and Dada, > >not to mention Loy's lovers and friends like Marinetti, Duchamp, and > >Picabia, she is credited with original portrayals of "the intellectual > >excitement and controversy surrounding the arts in the pre-WWI period," > >even with creating "witty and illuminating" glimpses of the period's > >luminaries (Kirkus)--the details of which derive from my treatment of these > >movements and figures. > > > >some uses of specific details, settings, and structures: > > > >To demonstrate the nature of Logue's borrowing, readers should compare the > >following sections of each work: > > > >Shadow-Box Becoming Modern > > > >pp. 28: Mina walking Oda in p. 96: detail based on my > >Luxembourg Gardens experience, inserted for > > > > > > verisimilitude > > > >p. 29: treatment of the name "Loy" p. 97: interpretation of the > > fragmentary evidence > > > >pp. 34-35: LeSavoureux story pp. 102-104: interpretation, > >repeated as fact considered controversial by > > > > Mina Loy's family > > > >pp. 95-98: presentation of pp. 151-153: original > > material on Frances Stevens and research, > >interpretation, > >Italian Futurists and staging of scenes > > > >pp. 99-102: narrative use of pp. 155-157: original > > Futurist serata, Florence > > interpretation, staging of scene > > > >pp. 110-111: Marinetti's trip to pp. 171-172: > >Vallombrosa "invention" of this meeting > > > > based on fragmentary evidence > > > >pp. 161-163: scene of Cravan pp. 263-265: interpretation > >leaving Salina Cruz and staging of material woven > > from diverse sources > > > >pp. 168-176: Loy at Arensbergs', pp. 212-223: interpretation > >relations with Duchamp, Williams, & treatment of this group & > >New York Dada individuals including > >details > > of badinage with Duchamp > > > >pp. 177-200: Cravan, Independents pp. 223-233, 234-251, > >details, > >structured in two parts, with Cravan story interpretations & narrative > > starting on p. 182 device of > >highlighting Cravan > > story (my Ch. 11) > > > >pp. 263-267: Salina Cruz scene, details pp. 263-265, recreation > > of boat, communication system, role of Cravan's > >fate from disparate > >of Bob Brown sources including Brown > > > > Given my response to these uses of my biography, it is for someone > >else to judge Shadow-Box. Others will decide whether it transforms the > >biographical materials, or whether it remains a derivative work penned, as > >Jonathan Dee observes of recent novels based on the lives of writers, > >"ostensibly as an act of homage, but also, not coincidentally, as a way of > >grabbing up the genuine cachet. . . geniuses still deliver, in order to > >enhance the value of one's own work." ("The Reanimators, Harper's, June > >1999). > > It would also be instructive for Mina Loy enthusiasts to compare > >Logue's novel with Albert Guerard's The Hotel in the Jungle (Baskerville, > >1996), a work of imaginative fiction composed before my book appeared and > >based on what was then known of the Loy/Cravan story. Guerard made the > >legend his own by creating a setting for their romance (the hotel) and a > >group of characters who retrospectively piece together their story. > > While it is a pleasure to see novelists' creative transformations > >of historical material (and there are many successful examples), Logue's > >raises serious questions about literary method and publishing ethics. > >Caveat lector, and may this brief account stimulate further discussion. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:51:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: the lack of a state poet laureate Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit HAZO! Poet Laureate of PENN SYL VA NIA! ---------- >From: George Bowering >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: the lack of a state poet laureate >Date: Wed, Sep 8, 1999, 1:39 AM > >>Calif, my home state for 37 years, 37 years during which time I have never >>known who the PL was, nor have I noticed any damage to poetry resulting >>from this absence or, indeed, presence. > >>David Bromige, CPL > >Yes, David, but in those 37 years, have you ever known who the governor was? > > > > >George Bowering. > , > > >fax: 1-604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:56:17 -0700 Reply-To: minka@grin.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: megan minka lola camille roy Subject: Saidenberg and Singleton reading at New Langton Arts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Announcing the Bay Area Award Show Reading New Langon Arts, San Francisco. Come one, come all. Jocelyn Saidenberg and giovanni singleton are the recipients of the Bay Area Award for 1999. These two extraordinary younger poets will read at New Langton Arts on Thursday, September 16th, 8PM. 1246 Folsom Street. Reservations and Info: 415 626 5416 Come experience the lively pulse of new writing in San Francisco. Jocelyn Saidenberg will present a selection of new poetry and prose. giovanni singleton will read from a new collection of poetry entitled "Atlas: the green book". Jocelyn Saidenberg is the author of Mortal City, Parentheses Writing Series (1998). Her work has been published in many journals such as Arshile, Outlet, Mirage#4/Period[ical], and Primary Writing. She is Executive Director of Small Press Traffic and the editor and publisher of KRUPSKAYA, a small press collective dedicated to publishing experimental poetry and prose. Born and raised in NYC, she has been living in San Francisco since 1994. giovanni singleton, a native of Richmond, VA, received a MFA in Creative Writing and Poetics from The New College of California. She has been awarded fellowships from the Squaw Valley Community of Writers Workshop and the Zora Neal Hurston/Richard Wright Writers Workshop. Since 1997, she has served as a member of the Board of Directors for Small Press Traffic, a literary arts center in San Francisco. Her work has appeared in a number of publications including mirage4/period(ical), mass ave., nØ rØses review, Proliferation, the Bay Guardian’s Haiku Corner, Chain and The Breast: An Anthology (Global City Press; New York, 1994). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:34:08 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: Olson quotation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Berkeley Poetry Conference - 20 July 1965 printed as _Causal Mythology_ in _ Charles Olson. Muthologos, vol 1, Four seasons Foundation, Bolinas, 1977, pp.63-96 _. (also cited by Robert Creeley in introduction to _Selected Writings of Charles Olson_ New Directions. 1966) The quote is on p.72 followed by "I don't have any trouble stealing that." Isn't it taken from Lao Tze? Could someone please confirm that. I looked for it once, cdn't locate it. I don't have a copy to hand. Tony Green -----Original Message----- From: Tom Orange To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, 9 September 1999 09:50 Subject: Olson quotation >hello all, > >can anyone help me identify this olson quotation?: > "that which exists through itself is what is called meaning." > >much thanks, >tom orange in d.c. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:47:01 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wystan Curnow Organization: University of Auckland Subject: Re: fwd from Carolyn Burke In-Reply-To: <199909082143.RAA22766@smtp6.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Karen Kelley wrote: > I'm a bit at a loss here. What, I wonder, would Carolyn Burke like? That > she had been involved in the novelization process? That people not novelize > biographies? That the novelizations be biographically accurate? That we not > buy Antonia Logue's book? I'm sorry that she feels ripped off, and I can't > speak as an academic-who's-been-ripped-off, but if someone's going to > novelize a life, I don't see how they can get around the bio. No doubt > Carolyn Burke thinks Antonia Logue cut too close to her own work, but where > is a novelizer to turn? If Logue is going to speculate, must she speculate > radically different speculations than Burke speculates? If you're > novelizing a bio, aren't you mythologizing? And so perhaps preferable to > use the more common myths? > > Excellent questions all, but I can't shake the feeling that I was expected > to react to a brouhaha... I guess they do sound excellent to their author but am I the only reader who finds them mostly answered in Burke's post? WHERE IS THE NOVELIZER TO TURN? o, poor noveliser! Novelisers Go Home, I say. Seems like there's some confusion about genre here, about how to be in or out of genre or meaningfully neither in or out. Am I wrong? Wystan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:57:30 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Owen Hill Subject: Re: the lack of a state poet laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to nominate.....Tom Clark! Owen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:09:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CharSSmith@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Olson quotation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << can anyone help me identify this olson quotation?: "that which exists through itself is what is called meaning." >> Tom, It's a quote from _The Secret of the Golden Flower_ that Olson uses in hisessay/talk "Causal Mythology" (first vol. of _Muthologos_ & undoubtedly in the Cal Collected Prose). He uses it again in the poem "The Secret of the Black Chrysanthemum" that Charles Stein devoted a book-length study to. all best, cs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:23:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Need help for a Millennial Project through trAce! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Depends of course - but part of the idea is to see what happens with the Y2K rollover, which is the earlier hinge (there's another around 2038 but I'll be dead). It's looking at the way the electrical grid works, it's coming to grips with the grid, not just presenting on the surface, but watching the measure of its nerves. Alan On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, George Bowering wrote: > >= > > > > > >Millennium Project - Help Needed, Comments Invited !!! > > > > > >This is a proposal for a millennium project that would involving running > >traceroute and similar applications across the December 31 / January 1 > >_hinge._ > > That would be Dec 2000 -- Jan 2001, wouldnt it? > > > > > George Bowering. > , > > > fax: 1-604-266-9000 > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt - partial mirror at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html co-moderator Cyberculture, Cybermind, Fiction of Philosophy (fop-l) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:32:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: SILICONATHANOR - new magazine project (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the siliconathanor magazine project PLEASE SPREAD THIS MESSAGE Ten years after the experience with "Circolo Pickwick" magazine, I'm planning to realise at the beginning of the new year a "number zero" (experimental issue) of a new printed magazine. The title will be "siliconathanor". We are looking for contributors. Here are the characteristics of this new project. SPECIFICATIONS: Size: something inside A3 (probably cm. 34X28,5) Cover: full colour Internal pages: b/w number of pages: to define THE SPIRIT: We want to realise an artistic project, to explore mainly the areas between electronic media and creativity in this peculiar moment. MATERIALS WE ARE LOOKING FOR: A) TEXTS 1- short stories, poems, any kind of experimental text, with an evident connection to present time: transformations, electronic media, cyberspace, spiritual developments, ethical problems and so on. 2- articles and short essays on the same themes. Anyway I will be glad to consider anything, even outside the main themes. Consider that the magazine will be targeted on creative texts much more than on essays. I hate to give length limits to writers (being a writer myself and hating to have such limits...): but please remember your text should be one among others, and not the one that fills the whole magazine. IMPORTANT: please send the texts via e-mail as attached file -or snail mail on a floppy disk- also (save as: text, txt, rtf). Texts in English or French will be published in their original language with an Italian translation. Texts in Italian will be published only in the original language, except special cases, when they could be translated in English. Don't forget to write on the work itself (not only on the envelope!) your name, address and so on. B) IMAGES Any subject. Any technique allowed. Any size. Electronic images (jpeg, tiff and so on) welcome. Paper prints or original works welcome as well. Please be conscious that the works reproduced in the internal pages will be grey scale printed. Don't forget to write on the work's back (not only on the envelope!) your name, address and so on. C) REVIEWS We plan to publish a note about ANY publication that we'll receive, being on printed paper, magnetic or laser support; literary, musical or multimedia. Any press release is welcome too: but in that case we will choose if to include it or not. D) MAIN THEME We would like to have a main theme for each issue. This will come in the future. In number zero there will be just a thematic section. Key-word: AVATAR. Works on this subject are more than welcome. CONTRIBUTORS If you want to participate to this experiment, you have to do it for free. This is a no-profit attempt to create a new, free artistic medium. Number zero will be widely diffused among magazines, cultural institutions and so on. I promise I'll send two complimentary copies to all the published participants and one to all those who proposed original materials, even if not published (press releases not included). I warmly suggest you to send also a biography and a picture of yours, because I plan to publish a small but complete file about any of the contributors at the end of the magazine. For obvious reasons, we will not send back the works you mail us. COPIRIGHT It remains property of the authors, that will be free to do what they want of their works in the future. TEAM At the moment our team is composed by: Giuseppe Iannicelli, Alberto Crosio, Veronica Villa, Diego Fasano. ADDRESS: you can send your works to: Siliconathanor - CP 122 I-15100 Alessandria - ITALIA The email you can use as well is: thelab@lycosmail.com Please always begin the subject of the email with the word "siliconathanor", then add anything you need to. Best regards. Giuseppe Iannicelli IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO RECEIVE ANYMORE INFO ABOUT THIS PROJECT, PLEASE JUST REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE WITH THE WORD "REMOVE" IN THE BODY OF THE MESSAGE. Thanks ====================================================== Siliconathanor. Universes inside your mind. And your machine. The Lab, a virtual place for experimenting Arts http://members.tripod.com/~thelab/ thelab@lycosmail ====================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:21:57 -0700 Reply-To: minka@grin.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: megan minka lola camille roy Subject: Euro-San Francisco Poetry festival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi poetics list, This is (as far as I know) a complete schedule of this VERY special event, co-sponsored by many San Francisco literary organizations and cultural agencies. If you want more info on an particular event than is listed here, I suggest calling the presenting organization. (I haven't found a central coordinator and can't help you with questions, sorry.) This is an opportunity to hear poets who are very rarely (if ever) here, as well as wonderful local writers and translators. It looks super... camille roy Euro-San Francisco Poetry Festival Co-sponsored by Alliance Francaise, in conjuction with the Euro-San Francisco Poetry Festival, a 5-day series of events sponsored by Alliance Francaise, Goethe-Institut, and the Istituto Italiano di Cultura, in collaboration with City Lights Books, Intersection for the Arts, New Langton Arts, the San Francisco Art Institute, and Small Press Traffic. special event: poetry reading an evening of french poetry with Jean Fremon translated by Cole Swensen & Anne Portugal translated by Norma Cole Saturday September 25, 1999 8 pm box office opens at 7pm Tickets: $6 general $4 langton members, students, and seniors for information or reservations call 415 626 5416 reservations recommended 1246 Folsom Street San Francisco between 8th and 9th streets The rest of the schedule is: Wednesday, Sept. 22 7:30pm at San Francisco Art Institute poets Edoardo Sanfuineti, Guilia Niccolai, & Luigi Vallerini Thursday, Sept. 23 1-4pm at Intersection for the Arts Translation workshop with European Poets and their translators Friday Sept. 24 7:30pm at Small Press Traffic (New College Theater) Stage Reading/Performance by German poet Tracy Splinter and SF poets Kevin Killian and Jocelyn Saidenberg Saturday, Sept. 25 2pm at Intersection for the Arts Spoken Poetry Performance by German poets Bastian Bottcher and Philipp Schiemann with Bay Area poets TBA Saturday, Sept 25 8pm at New Langton Arts An evening with French poets Anne Portugal and Jean Fremon translated by Norma Cole and Cole Swenson. (See above). Sunday, Sept. 26 1-4pm at SF Art Institute Closing event with participating European poets & translators as well as SF peots Bill Berkson, Joanne Kyger, Duncan McNaughton, Nathaniel Mackey, Leslie Scalapino, & Aaron Shurin. Guest of Honor, Lawrence Felinghetti. -- Go there, get paid, right now, bulls-eye, never before, sure fire: http://www.grin.net/~minka "Concealment is what I most enjoy: I love organs." (C. Harryman) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:41:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "r. drake" Subject: (fwd) New book by BRENDA COULTAS Comments: cc: mburger@Adobe.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 14:05:17 -0700 >From: Mary Burger >Subject: New book by BRENDA COULTAS > >Second Story Books announces the publication of > >A SUMMER NEWSREEL >by Brenda Coultas > >"Those new to Coultas' writing are in for a fine treat: for several years, >Coultas has been conducting an in-depth evaluation of the interstices of >rural and semi-rural America and A Summer Newsreel is another stunning >chapter in the most gloriously idiosyncratic work around." --Laird Hunt > >23 pages with hand-stitched binding, vellum and monotone color photo cover. > >Available from SMALL PRESS DISTRIBUTION: > http://www.spdbooks.org, tel. 510.524.1668 > >or from SECOND STORY BOOKS: >Send a check for $5.00 payable to MARY BURGER at: >Second Story Books >Mary Burger, Editor >85 Henry St. #5 >San Francisco CA 94114 > >Write/email for more information on other Second Story books: >NOT RIGHT NOW, Renee Gladman >THE TELEVISION DOCUMENTARY, Lauren Gudath (forthcoming) >CONFUZION COMIX, Jacques Debrot (forthcoming) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:38:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: Re: NYC Bookstores MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was just in NY and surprised that Tower records clearance outlet (and by extension, Tower Records) has a lot of Talisman Bks, Harryette Mullen's _Muse & Drudge_, and a lot of other interesting stuff. Much better than Tower Outlet in THIS NoHo. Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:15:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brendan Lorber Subject: SWEET REVENGE AT THE ZINC BAR... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" That's right - rise up downstairs as the ZINC BAR SUNDAY NIGHT READING SERIES kicks off the fall season. We've run the series all summer & now it's time for you to take over - & to take advantage of your hosts' sun-addled minds & sun-addled minds. Let me explain: The vast number of crummy open mics around the country do nothing to address the real desire of most poets - that is, to run a series themselves. And so we've taken it upon ourselves to begin the autumn with an open-host night at the Zinc Bar. Series founder Joe Eliot returns to guest mc on September 12 when audience members & former readers are invited to introduce Brendan Lorber & Douglas Rothschild, the word-drunk curators. Wearing clever disguises & employing our vast network of spies, Douglas and I have ascertained that many people look upon this evening as an opportunity to get back at us for our somewhat tangential, sprawling approach to introductions during the rest of the year. One person anticipates an evening not unlike the scene in Airplane in which people line up with boxing gloves and monkey wrenches to take turns calming a hysterical passenger. Whatever the outcome, we foolishly invite all of you to come & introduce us and, if there is time, we'll read some of our own work after. The following week, four Danish poets will be reading their poetry in English & Danish as part of a broader festival of Danish culture throughout the Metropolitan Area this month. It should prove to be a memorable night & we recommend checking out the other events Denmark is bringing us, in addition to this reading. Continuing on the international tip, the final week in September brings us Indran Amirthanayagam & Ron Price. Indran's in town briefly & is making a rare appearance. (He'll also be reading on MAD ALEX Presents on Monday Sept 27th if you'd like to see him again.) In October we'll be hosting a global blend of poets whose work spans several languages and whose names are certain to be bolloxed by Douglas' spelling ability and Brendan's distracted states. So here's the rundown for September SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 12: DOUGLAS ROTHSCHILD & BRENDAN LORBER (Joe Eliot moderates and YOU are the special guest host) SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 19: KATRINE MARIE GULDAGER & SOREN ULRIK THOMSEN & ANNE METTE LUNDTOFTE & TODD THILLEMAN SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 26: INDRAN AMIRTHANAYAGAM & RON PRICE The Zinc Bar is at 90 West Houston Street between Laguardia & Thompson, in the basement. After the reading & every night in fact, the Zinc Bar has some pretty good jazz. All readings "start" at 6:37pm every single Sunday. We ask for three bucks, which go to the readers. If you can't manage three bucks, give us whatever you can manage, even if its just best wishes. We recommend bringing a little extra tho, as readers often bring their books & Brendan is always flogging his LUNGFULL!Magazine. If you need more information: 212.533.9317 or 212.366.2091. (For extra fun, why not conference these two numbers together & then secretly listen in.) You can also e us at lungfull@interport.net, though we can't guarantee the degree of delight that'll bring. As always, if this email grieves you - because, say, you don't want it, please let us know & you'll never hear from the Zinc boys again. On behalf of Douglas Rothschild and all of us at the Zinc Bar Sunday Night Reading Series, thanks for your time. I'm Brendan Lorber. Good night, & we'll see you on Sunday. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:45:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Good idea to speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just as good and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the chaotic and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone else takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think they mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of the East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. http://www.freetimor.com/ http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ http://www.etan.org/ regards, Patrick Herron >so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a better usage of your time; indonesia@un.int thanks pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:41:21 -0800 Reply-To: arshile@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Organization: Arshile: A Magazine of the Arts Subject: Novels of the Sixties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colleagues: I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with suggestions for a course on the Novels of the Sixties. Of particular interest are novels that reflect, in form and/or content, the counter culture. The limit for this theme (arbitrary though it may be) is that the publication date of the book must fall between 1960 and 1970. Reply by backchannel. Thank you. Mark Salerno ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:17:38 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Olson quotation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Tom, I think it occurs first in "The Special View of History", tho I don't know wher exactly. Also, Charles' copious "death notes" mention this same sentemnce in several differernt contextxs/If you do'n't have access to them, write me and I'll send them on to you.\ Beestm, Stephen >From: Tom Orange >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Olson quotation >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:53:26 -0400 > >hello all, > >can anyone help me identify this olson quotation?: > "that which exists through itself is what is called meaning." > >much thanks, >tom orange in d.c. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:04:44 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: the lack of a state poet laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why not: King Poet Laureate, David Bromige & Queen Poet Laureate, Joanne Kyger Whether this is a California Divine Regency or not, is probably open to question. But Joanne's native birth right will heal any problems with David's alien Canadian status. And they will both look great and appropriate together in pageant or play. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:40:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Re: LEFT HAND READING SERIES, Thurs. Sept. 16 @ 8:30pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > **THE LEFT HAND READING SERIES 1999-2000 SEASON > KICKS OFF ON THURSDAY, SEPT. 16 @ 8:30 PM** > > The Left Hand Reading Series is proud to present featured readers ANSELM > HOLLO, AKILAH OLIVER and BHANU KAPIL RIDER for its first reading of the > 1999-2000 season. > > Left Hand Books is located at 1825 Pearl St, between 18th & 19th, above > the Crystal Market. > The reading is free, but donations are requested. > > ANSELM HOLLO is the author of over 35 volumes of poetry. His latest work > includes "Corvus," "AHOE 2: Johnny Cash Writes a Letter to Santa Claus," > and "PoLemics," with Jack Collom and Anne Waldman. He is one of this > country's most accomplished translators and is a Core Faculty member at > Naropa University. > > AKILAH OLIVER is the author of "The She Said Dialogues," and a founding > member of the LA-based performance collective, The Sacred Naked Nature > Girls. Currently an Adjunct Faculty member at Naropa University, she has > received awards for writing and performance from the Rockefeller > Foundation and the California Council of the Arts. > > BHANU KAPIL RIDER'S first book, a prose-poem entitled "The Vertical > Interrogation of Strangers," is forthcoming from Kelsey Street Press. > Selections from her novel, "The Autobiography of a Cyborg," will appear in > the prestigious journal Conjunctions. > > A brief Open Reading will begin the evening. > > For more information, please call Mark DuCharme (303.938.9346) or Patrick > Pritchett (303.444.5963) > > The Left Hand Reading Series is funded in part by grants from the Boulder > Arts Commission and the Assembly for Humanities and Arts in Boulder. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:52:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Tosh Sighting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just noticed that Tosh Berman (along with Wallace & Shirley) appears in Philip Whalen's "In The Center of Autumn" -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:00:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Macgregor Card Subject: New England Mags? Comments: cc: poeticresearch@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Does anyone captain or know of any small New England litmags that might be interested in setting up a booth at the Bartlett Society book fair, in Providence, at Brown, late October Saturday? Sales would generate revenue, word-of-mouth and money. Fine-press centurions are attending from as far away from home as Manhattan. I've already talked with Michael Magee, of the fabulous _Combo_. Any other takers? "Regional" webmags are welcome to submit a link (there'll be a magazine webprojection). Send an email this week if you might be interested: Macgregor_Card@Brown.edu. Thanks, Macgregor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:58:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Performance Advertisement - Joseph Hyde & Alaric Sumner / Sumner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Mon, Sep 6, 1999 2:11 PM +0000 From: Alaric Sumner Subject: Performance Advertisement - Joseph Hyde & Alaric Sumner (sorry for any crossposting) Nekyia (a recital for eyes and ears) presented by Joseph Hyde and Alaric Sumner Saturday 25 September in Somerset, UK Includes: Hyde and Sumner's collaboration 'Nekyia' (for speaker, singer, electroacoustic sound, live electronics and video); Kurt Schwitters; Hugo Ball; Hyde's 'In Sunlight' and 'Vox Mechanix'; reading of excerpts from Sumner's 'Tonight', a few new 'Letters for dear Augustine' and his two short collaborations with soundartist John Levack Drever, 'Hope' and 'Sound'. Performers include Rory McDermott ('The Unspeakable Rooms') and singer Steve Halfyard. The piece 'Nekyia' will also be performed in Montreal in September and Oslo in October. BY INVITATION ONLY IF YOU WOULD LIKE AN INVITATION PLEASE EMAIL mailto:j.hyde@dartington.ac.uk Further details: http://www.dartington.ac.uk/~j.hyde/nekflyer.html ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:59:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: temple reading schedule / osman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Tue, Sep 7, 1999 2:37 PM -0400 From: jena osman Subject: temple reading schedule For those of you in the Philadelphia area, here is the upcoming reading series hosted by the Temple University Creative Writing Program. All readings are free to the public, start at 8:00 p.m. and take place at the Temple Gallery, 45 North 2nd St. September 16, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge September 30, Jonathan Ames October 7, Caroline Seebohm December 1, Robert Coover December 2, Carla Harryman ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:03:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: New Barrett Watten criticism in Qui Parle 11.1 / Nickels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Sep 1, 1999 4:33 PM -0400 From: Joel Tyler Nickels Subject: New Barrett Watten criticism in Qui Parle 11.1 A new essay by Barrett Watten which might be of interest to the poetry crowd is appearing in issue 11.1 of the Berkeley theoretical journal Qui Parle. It's entitled "The Constructivist Moment: From El Lissitzky to Detroit Techno." Barrett and I are trying to spread the word that the issue is now out. For more info, you can contact me directly at joeln@uclink4.berkeley.edu, or email Qui Parle at quiparle@socrates.berkeley.edu. Our website is http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~quiparle. ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:11:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties Comments: To: arshile@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <37D7022C.E6B32AB2@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:41 PM -0800 9/8/99, Mark Salerno wrote: >Colleagues: > >I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with suggestions for a course on the >Novels of the Sixties. Of particular interest are novels that reflect, >in form and/or content, the counter culture. The limit for this theme >(arbitrary though it may be) is that the publication date of the book >must fall between 1960 and 1970. > >Reply by backchannel. > >Thank you. > >Mark Salerno i'd be curious to hear folks's suggestions so if you don't mind frontchannel, mine is Leonard Cohen's Beautiful Losers. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:25:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: New Barrett Watten criticism in Qui Parle 11.1 / Nickels Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just tried to access that site to read the Watten essay, in hopes of getting the portion he didn't have time to deliver at the Toronto MLA, but I got a message that it wasn't found on the specified server -- Hope this just means the server is temporarily down or some such thing -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:40:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: fwd from Carolyn Burke Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The plot of someone's life as pursued by a biographer versus biographer's wordsWORDS! whole passages of them LIFTED by some unscrupulous arrogant ambitious self assumed artiste ------ ---------- >From: Wystan Curnow >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: fwd from Carolyn Burke >Date: Wed, Sep 8, 1999, 6:47 PM > >Karen Kelley wrote: > >> I'm a bit at a loss here. What, I wonder, would Carolyn Burke like? That >> she had been involved in the novelization process? That people not novelize >> biographies? That the novelizations be biographically accurate? That we not >> buy Antonia Logue's book? I'm sorry that she feels ripped off, and I can't >> speak as an academic-who's-been-ripped-off, but if someone's going to >> novelize a life, I don't see how they can get around the bio. No doubt >> Carolyn Burke thinks Antonia Logue cut too close to her own work, but where >> is a novelizer to turn? If Logue is going to speculate, must she speculate >> radically different speculations than Burke speculates? If you're >> novelizing a bio, aren't you mythologizing? And so perhaps preferable to >> use the more common myths? >> >> Excellent questions all, but I can't shake the feeling that I was expected >> to react to a brouhaha... > > >I guess they do sound excellent to their author but am I the only >reader who finds them mostly answered in Burke's post? WHERE IS THE >NOVELIZER TO TURN? o, poor noveliser! Novelisers Go Home, I say. >Seems like there's some confusion about genre here, about how to be >in or out of genre or meaningfully neither in or out. Am I wrong? > > Wystan > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:58:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: Backwards from Myrna Loy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Reproach it's so simple: make up the biography! it's not as if distance didn't exist in this and all matters. skidmarks litter the road to fame. take the current example: working with her poet/boxer friend, Myrna Loy developed a new way to exaggerate. she defined her region of interest, simulating participation, while her boxer/poet friend, Arthur Cravan, defined his, simulating disinterest. the modern puzzle was easily solved. Loy the subject, meaning Mina, became a logo, an experience and a DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS!!!. Myrna, famous in her own right, knew the price of fame. her emphasis was clear. she would kick off her shoes as William Powell, no poet/boxer he, sauntered about the apartment shaking the iconic martini shaker with a dolourous abandon, at the same time declaring with a burp "I have a book in me." modernist Myrna would simply sigh, "my dogs are killing me." Not Asta, the literal dog but -- oh my -- we have taken a trip with the possible. Mina Loy said modernism will just have to take care of itself, whether biography outlives her or not. she implies that we should unite the streams of resistance and truth, and tremble beneath the new kabalistic glare. she knew, I'm sure, that moderner babies are born every day, and each will want a newer biography, the shimmer of which will suggest novelistic possibilities. sure, we are all still people, in the usual marginal use of that term, but oh, we could talk about more. Mina Loy, therefore, is NOT Myrna Loy. not now, and maybe not to come. the connective tissues maintain a tenuous grip, which is why the genre called futurity is so passe. one concludes, then, that being force fed by the collected authority doesn't really help. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:22:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: the lack of a state poet laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" the poet laureate of california has a mahvelous piece in the new tads#5 which includes work by Renee Rodin, george stanley, george bowering, kedrick james, curt lang, zoran bognar. Send Jamie Reid 382 E. 4th St. North Vancouver, B.C., Canada V7L 1J2 some postage($2?) he'll send you the mag what a deal! forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:22:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties Comments: To: arshile@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" beautiful losers by leonard cohen been down so long looks like up to me by richard farina four gated city briefing for a descent into hell both by doris lessing speeches of a brazen head phil whalen trout fishing in america by richard brautigan the white album by joan didion the crying of lot 49 v both by tom pynchon great jones street dom de lillo cat's cradle brakfast of champions god bless you mister rosewater slaughterhouse five all by kurt Vonnegut confessions of a crap artist the transmigration of timothy archer ubik all by phil dick small changes vida woman on the edge of time all by marge piercy on the road(is this a fifties novel or sixties novel?) subterreanians dharma bums doctor sax vanity of duluoz(sp?) all by Jack Kerouac enormous changes at the last minute grace paley the sky changes the imaginative qualities of actual things both by gilbert sorrentino good day to die by jim harrison go in beauty the bronc people portrait of the artist with twenty six horses by william eastlake hard rain don carpenter hall of mirrors robert stone omensetter's luck william gass the ticket that exploded nova express bill burroughs last exit to brooklyn hubert selby hopscotch julio cortazar the deans december saul bellow the floating opera john barth second skin john hawkes st. urbain's horseman mordechai richler catch 22 joseph heller come back dr. caligari the dead father both by donald barthelme the origin of the brunists universal baseball association both by robert coover forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:43:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tosh Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties Comments: To: arshile@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here is something of use and interest: Jill Neville's 'The Love Germ.' It is a novel that takes place during the May 68 uprising. I believe it was written during that period. Also I would think any fiction book by Terry Southern, The Soft Machine by Burroughs, etc. ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books ------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Ahearn Subject: Best Texas Writing 2 available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, I am posting this note for my colleague, Brian Clements, who is temporarily without Internet service. Best, Joe Ahearn Best Texas Writing 2 is now available! This volume includes work by the excellent poets, essayists, and fictionists listed below. Recipients of this message are entitled to a 10% discount plus free shipping. Mail a check or money order for $13.50 (US) per book to Firewheel Editions, 6514 Barnsbury Ct., Dallas, TX 75248, and your book(s) will be shipped immediately. All proceeds from the sale of BTW2 go entirely towards the cost of printing this and other publications from Firewheel Editions, including Kristin Ryling's chapbook, _Trompe L'Oeil_, due this fall. Joe Ahearn, Wendy Barker, Bruce Bond, Paul Christensen, Gillian Conoley, Carol Cullar, Cooper Esteban, Larry Fontenot, Dagoberto Gilb, Emily Fox Gordon, H. Palmer Hall, Edward Hirsch, Judith Kroll, S.D. Lishan, Lee Martin, Walt McDonald, Jack Myers, Chinwe Odeluga, Kathleen Peirce, Robert Phillips, Frank Pool, Pattiann Rogers, Jan Epton Seale, Matthew Sharpe, Christopher Soden, Laurel Speer, Sheryl St. Germain, Denise Stallcup, Maureen P. Stanton, Belinda Subraman, Miles Wilson, Steve Wilson, Christopher Woods. Brian Clements Publisher, Firewheel Editions Joe Ahearn joeah@mail.airmail.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:16:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Culture and Anarchy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = Culture and Anarchy "It may well be," he said, in his sudden lyrical manner, "it may well be on such a night of clouds and cruel colours that there is brought forth upon the earth such a portent as a respectable poet. You say you are a poet of law; I say you are a contradiction in terms. I only wonder there were not comets and earthquakes on the night you appeared in this garden." [...] "You are wrong," said the Secretary, drawing his black brows together. "The knife was merely the expression of the old personal quarrel with a personal tyrant. Dynamite is not only our best tool, but our best symbol. It is as perfect a symbol of us as is incense of the prayers of the Chris- tians. It expands; it only destroys because it broadens; even so, thought only destroys because it broadens. A man's brain is a bomb," he cried out, loosening suddenly his strange passion and striking his own skull with violence. "My brain feels like a bomb, night and day. It must expand! It must expand! A man's brain must expand, if it breaks up the universe." (quotes from The Man Who was Thursday, G. K. Chesterton.) "I have never been so tense as to write 'currenct' for 'current' or 'may bell we' for 'may well be' as I am now," they continued; the date was duly noted among each and every line, making no difference to the general at- mosphere. "It's impossible to think straight any longer," they said, hit- ting the table with their fists in a dull pounding, "just when one thought appears, another violates it, attempts to take its place. Everything melts before my eyes; there's nothing but red and black, black on red, red on black!" They replied with vehemence; the argument went on long into the night. The next morning, there would be headlines in the newspapers all across Europe; now was the time for reflection. "You can see an error for what it is," they said, "you can see it and see it - and nothing helps; it sits there, invisible! No wonder everything appears in version after ver- sion! Our poor humanity gets by on its last ropes; what's left of it is always unrecognized, a victim of the slowness of speech, the deafness of the listener, dyslectic readers, genius!" __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:18:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: hypertext suggestions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi, I have an independent study student who is going to do a hypertext horror piece. I have no problem helping her with the horror end of the project, but also want to suggest some good hypertext pieces and/or theories. I'm sending her the urls of a couple things that have caught my eye, but does anyone have any suggestions of some cut-above hypertext links? Or even books/articles on hypertext? Thanks. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:36:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anybody have Eliot Weinberger's email address? Backchannel, please. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:42:27 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Pound typo MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit the infamous typo which Pound kept is Rock Drill Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:33:11 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest to:indonesia@un.int president@whitehouse.gov a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au thanks pete spence speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just >as good >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the >chaotic >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone >else >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think they >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of the >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > >http://www.etan.org/ > >regards, >Patrick Herron > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a >better >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > >thanks pete spence > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:30:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: a state w/o a laureate's like what happened to yr navel!? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I thank you, fellow poetry-fans, for those three votes. They counterbalance the pair of hairsplitters who dont know whether i'm from venus or mars. But Bob Gruman has it right, of course---I only meant that each of us should make a like declaration. Given, that is, that we are uneasy w/o a representative. It was a moment of flippitude. I diss noone. Peter, that is. Elected, shall serve....but not minors. Pat Brown, Ronald Ragwort, Jerry Brown, George Deukmejian, Pete Wilson, Gray Davis, George. You forget that I worked for the state for 2/3 of my time served in calif. db ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:41:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: THE SEEDED FRIEND OF HUMANKIND IS CASHED Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" THE SEEDED FRIEND OF HUMANKIND IS CASHED The seeded friend of humankind is cashed, but I have found a place where more is stashed, a lab where every leaf is dried to that word-perfect flam and readiness to act on every syllable. The moot trapeze of sense remotely utters thank you, please and marches down directly to the page to perpetrate its sensuous brigandage. Semantic hemlocks melt to tilted tiles and titles brim with paratactic styles like paratroopers of the golden ring, who come to spell a wish on everything with serious roach music in the bong, God-naughty and immensely drawn to song. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:36:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Edward Foster Subject: The greatest American poet from Walt Whitman to Robert Frost In-Reply-To: <37D71DB6.1F993E65@pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Published today: Stuart Merrill, The White Tomb: Selected Writings "In the whole period, from Walt Whitman and Emily Dickinson to Edwin Arlington Robinson and Robert Frost, the greatest American poet is Stuart Merrill" --Kenneth Rexroth with translations by "Aeon," Jethro Bithell, Elaine L. Corts, Holly Haahr, John Hay, Anselm Hollo, John Porter Houston, Mona Tobin Houston, Laird Hunt, Jack Lewis, Ludwig Lewisohn, Andrew Mangravite, Geoffrey O'Brien, Christine Pagnoulle, John Payne, Catherine Perry, Thomas B. Rudmose-Brown, and Henry Weinfield Talisman House, Publishers, ISBN: 1-883689-85-6, $16.95 Order through LPC (www.coolbooks.com), SPD, or your local bookstore "Merrill performed the incredibly difficult feat of wringing out of French versification the soft far-away music of the English Pre-Raohaelites. More than any other he produced the nearest thing in words to Debussy's music." --Vincent O'Sullivan, _Dictionary of American Biography_ Stuart Merrill (1863-1915) stood at the center of the international literary world in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Too American to fit into the French literary tradition and too French to fit into the American, he was a great maverick, important to both cultures but in the deepest sense belonging to none. As a Symbolist, he was among the forerunners of Modernism, and as a translator, he was crucial in making Stephen Mallarme and Paul Verlaine known in America and William Butler Yeats and Arthur Symons known in France. He defended the anarchists in the Haymarket Square riot of 1886, for which he was disinherited by his wealthy, socially prominent father. Leaving America permanently in 1892, he moved to Paris and later made his home near the palace at Versailles. A respected member of the inner circle surrounding Mallarme, he defended Oscar Wilde and Walt Whitman and published dozens of essays in support of young writers and new ideas. _The White Tomb_ includes major examples of his poetry (both in French and in English translation) as well as a selection of his translations and essays including his essays on his friends Wilde and Verlaine and his famous account of meeting Whitman shortly before the poets death. "The saddening thought for us is this: that English literature has lost to France two delicate and fascinating poets [Stuart Merrill and Francis Viele-Griffin], who might have stood by the side of W. B. Yeats and Arthur Symons as wizards of the word. And the United States have lost their two greatest contemporary poets." --Jethro Bithell, _Contemporary French Poetry_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:44:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: A SONNET OF KNOWLEDGE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A SONNET OF KNOWLEDGE http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/ http://pages.prodigy.net/mawired/ http://www.sca.org/heraldry/paul/a.html http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/poetics/ http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/community/postmodern.html http://www.internetindia.com/theeye/index.htm http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/mdamodaran/sabooks.html http://www.sulekha.com/cgi-bin/columninfo.cgi?handle=jigar http://www.hubcom.com/tantric/ http://detritus.net/manifesto.html http://dcn.davis.ca.us/~btcarrol/skeptic/bibcode.html http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Loge/1272/index.html http://www.theonion.com/onion3531/sad_lonely_people.html http://www.ai.mit.edu/publications/pubsDB/pubsDB/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:38:10 -0400 Reply-To: ndorward@sprint.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate and Jane Dorward Subject: The Poetry of Peter Riley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit _The Gig_ 4/5: The Poetry of Peter Riley The next issue of _The Gig_ magazine will be a special perfectbound double-issue of essays on the poetry of Peter Riley. This will provide the first substantial collection of criticism and commentary on an oeuvre which has already, with such classic books as _Lines on the Liver_, _Tracks and Mineshafts_ and _Distant Points_, been widely influential and admired. The issue's contributors will include Andrew Crozier, Nigel Wheale, John Hall, Keston Sutherland, Mark Morrisson, Tony Baker, Peter Larkin, Peter Middleton & others. It will also contain an interview conducted by Keith Tuma, previously unpublished poetry by Peter Riley, new translations by Lorand Gaspar, and a bibliography. This volume will pay long-overdue attention to one of the UK's most important poets. _The Gig_ needs advance support to enable the publication of this book. (There is, as one might anticipate, no public funding available in Canada for publishing work by non-Canadian authors.) The price is not yet fixed but we are asking for a minimum advance subscription of $20 Canadian dollars/$15 US dollars (prices include airmail within North America); or £10 in sterling (includes surfacemail to UK/overseas; add £2 for airmail). This amount may of course be increased by anyone who wishes thus to support the venture, and such support will be acknowledged. Subscriptions from Canada and USA should be sent and paid to "Nate Dorward", at: _The Gig_, Nate Dorward, 109 Hounslow Ave., Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada; ph: (416) 221-6865; email: . Subscriptions from UK and Europe may be sent and paid to Peter Riley (Books), 27 Sturton St., Cambridge, CB1 2QG, UK; ph/fax: 01223 576422; email: . ---- Nate & Jane Dorward ndorward@sprint.ca 109 Hounslow Ave., Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ph: (416) 221 6865 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:56:46 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ralph Wessman Subject: Re: New England Mags? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Macgregor ... 'Nedge'? But I guess you know it. It's in the EPC Little = Mag Alcove, if not. Best, Ralph >Does anyone captain or know of any small New England litmags=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:15:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: SCHOOL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SCHOOL Rolling awkwardly with the backward ebb of time, come back to school and the tedium of a Russian literature class, with emphasis on the proletarian novel, and then the delight of higher math. We were doing hyperbolic functions and my head was chock-full of analysis and love and ripe puberty, whose distinction from poetry remained fuzzy but was ultimately beginning (barely) to dawn. The big wise Lenin, the most altruistic of men, in the hallway, kindness and intelligence in his eye =96 we would hang him upside down when no one looked, and Sashka Denisov laughed his pants off =96 the joke felt even more forbidden than early teen imaginings of sex. During a recess we went to pound the soda machines across the street at the Agricultural Institute for free soda, and a funny middle-aged janitor lady popped out the basement, mop in hand, and cried, "No soda. Get the fuck out, boy! You bang that fountain once more and I call the cops." We teased her and she yelled go away and threatened to show us her sex if we didn=92t. We dared her to, and she said she wouldn=92t since we were fags. And in 1978 I fought Lyonia Cherniak on the dark third floor of our school No 37, near the biology classroom. We were discovered by the principal. In my rage I told her to get the bloody lost, and then had to call my parental units and ask them to present themselves at school. So I called Dad at work and told him the story and that he had to come see the principal. He did not believe me, did not believe it was me on the phone. He said, "You=92re some fool trying to play a stupid trick on me and Philip." I had to switch to English to convince him. I said: "It=92s me, Dad, I swear on my life! Besides, if it wasn=92t me, where=92d I get this number at the Foreign Languages Department= ?" He said, "OK, I=92ll be there." So here he comes in fifteen minutes and I lead him to the principal, and she goes on an on about what a problem boy I am. Dad listens and nods and listens very attentively and then brings out, "Don=92t worry, ma=92am. I=92ll whip him a-good when we get home," straight = face and all, my super Dad. Even I was so bewildered I nearly shat my pants. And she, the principal, and here I must admit she was a pretty nice lady, and pedagogical, so she says, "Oh, I=92m not sure such harsh disciplinary measures are at all necessary." And Dad: "Don=92t you please worry, ma=92am.= I know what I=92m doing. Sometimes these good-for-nothings ortabee taught a lesson/two the old way. Otherwise they just won=92t understand watch=92re yo= u tryin=92 to say. I mean, these new ones, they are different, right? Not like you and I and folks of our generation, born before or during the Great Patriotic War, were when we were their age. Mild pedagogics just won=92t cut the rope." And as we leave she stands there forever, a pillar of salt, fundamentally pale, poor Valentina Nikolaevna, and Dad abducts me from the remaining classes, and we go and buy a load of "Eskimo" ice-cream and then hit some East-Indian movie (like a Spaghetti Western, only better) about guns, friendship and revenge. Finally we go home, chattering like two English magpies to the shock and amazement of the bus driver, who possibly suspects we are spies. Mom, she will never figure out any of this. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:07:15 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marjorie Perloff Subject: Re: Three Penny Opera in San Francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't usually promote my daughters' activities but thought those of you who are Brecht/Weill fans and who are in the Bay Area (or may be coming soon) would be interested in Carey's production of THREE PENNY OPERA which opened at ACT last night. Herewith the review from SF Examiner: Modern classic in glorious guise ACT offers brilliant version of 'Threepenny Opera' By Robert Hurwitt EXAMINER THEATER CRITIC Performance credits Bebe Neuwirth stands in a stark spotlight in front of the tawdry, frayed red curtain, her thin face framed in a thick black mane that cascades over her tail coat and slit red mini. She plants her stiletto-heeled feet and sheer-stockinged long legs well apart and simply, matter-of-factly launches into "Moritat," the justly famed "Ballad of Mack the Knife." Her stunning voice — overmiked as it is — rings out clear, raw, insistent and penetrating with a feral vibrato that broadcasts the emotional resonance her formal stance and delivery belie. She sings Bertolt Brecht's sardonic catalogue of Macheath's career of rape, murder, robbery and mayhem — "You won't see Mackie's knife blade/ Till you feel it in your back" — investing every note of Kurt Weill's melody with perfect phrasing and rising, irresistible intensity. By the time she's finished, you not only know Carey Perloff's ACT season opener is going to be a smash success, you understand all over again why "The Threepenny Opera" is the definitive musical drama of the 20th century. And that's just the opening, before musical director Peter Maleitzke's hot onstage jazz sextet has swung into the overture. Two hours and 40 minutes later, as Neuwirth sings the bitterly downbeat coda, those feelings remain intact. Not that "Threepenny" is foolproof. Brecht and Weill wrote their 1928 masterpiece — the overnight sensation that established their careers — specifically for singing actors rather than trained musical voices. But many a revival has foundered on inept musicianship, onstage or in the pit (the original featured the Lewis Ruth Band, one of Germany's top jazz groups) — if not on sloppy staging, bad acting or misconceived direction. Perloff's "Threepenny," which opened Wednesday at the Geary Theater, falls into none of these traps. Michael Feingold's translation, revised from his 1989 Broadway version, is sharp, lucid and almost as biting as Brecht's German. The musicianship is brilliant on every hand. Perloff's staging is crisp, clear and brightly original without calling undue attention to its own cleverness. And the cast she's assembled is quite simply the finest I've seen since the "Threepenny" that turned me into a lifelong theater devotee, the 1950s Off Broadway Theater de Lys production with which Lotte Lenya — Weill's widow and Brecht's original Jenny — helped revive Weill's reputation and re-establish the play as a contemporary classic. It's a cast made up of equal parts Broadway veterans — Neuwirth, Philip Casnoff, Lisa Vroman, Nancy Dussault — ACT regulars (Steven Anthony Jones, Anika Noni Rose, Charles Lanyer, Dan Hiatt), other local actors and students from ACT's MFA and Young Conservatory programs. Perloff weaves their talents into a seamless ensemble full of outstanding performances. Not to mention a stunning blend of diverse, complementary performance styles: Neuwirth's confrontational Weimar cabaret stance; Dussault's deft vaudeville turns; Casnoff's disarming soft-shoe hoofer grace; Vroman's operatic flourishes and silent-movie melodrama gestural eloquence; Rose's romantic ingénue underlaid with lusty burlesque. It's a range reflective of the eclectic sources for both the score and the script. Brecht and Weill threw the play together in a few short months. The script, of course, is based on John Gay's brilliant 18th century "The Beggar's Opera," heavily adapted by Brecht from a translation by his longtime collaborator Elisabeth Hauptmann. Brecht borrowed heavily from a number of other sources — several song lyrics from Villon (listing him in the program and paying royalties to his translator, Karl Klammer, who wrote under the name Ammer), not to mention language from Kipling and the Bible and and ideas from Piscator, Wedekind, Noh drama, Shaw, Büchner, Pirandello and others. Weill matched Brecht's eclecticism with a score that blended American jazz and Lutheran hymns, German cabaret and English music hall, high and light opera and other influences, including one entire song lifted from Gay — whose own score had been entirely composed of popular English tunes. It's a script and score that could make a post-modernist scholar dizzy analyzing layers of borrowing. But it takes no expertise whatsoever to revel in the play's still-astonishing freshness, bite and beauty. Perloff, wisely, lets the play speak for itself, making only minor adjustments — far less radical than Brecht was wont to do with his own productions. True, she sticks "Moritat" out front, before the overture, and gives it to Jenny instead of the usual streetsinger. But Neuwirth, a memorable Velma in Broadway's recent "Chicago" (as well as on "Cheers"), provides a blisteringly vivid rendition that fully justifies the change. Feingold, theater critic for the Village Voice, has cut the text and songs some. But he's restored the songs to their original order and characters (though Perloff has Neuwirth's Jenny double gloriously with Rose's Polly Peachum on a resonant, searing "Pirate Jenny"). Some of his translations undercut Brecht's humor, particularly in the rousing "Soldier's Song" ("Cannon Song"), but most capture the crisp clarity of Brecht's wit. Perloff and choreographer Luis Perez infuse the show with a brisk, engaging energy that only flags a bit in the middle of the second act. Annie Smart's set — a two-story, distressed brick shell of an opera house, as if after an earthquake — and turn-of-the-century costumes establish the vaguely San Francisco-ish milieu of Perloff's version. The performers turn in one show-stopping rendition after another, giving the songs the intensified focus and self-conscious theatricality Brecht demanded. Dussault is outstanding as the tipsy, resourceful Mrs. Peachum, pairing brilliantly with Jones' gruff, booming, sanctimonious baritone on the Peachums' beggar shop duets. With a resonant whiskey-tinged voice and deft sight gags, she turns the "Ballad of the Prisoner of Sex" into a hilarious solo turn of sardonic wit and delightful ribaldry. Vroman is outstanding as Lucy Brown — Polly's rival and daughter of Lanyer's nicely tortured Sheriff Tiger Brown — both in a stunning vocal face-off "Jealousy Duet" with Rose's Polly and in her superb, diabolically melodramatic (and rarely performed) "Lucy's Aria." Rose is sweetly touching and brightly lusty in her love duets with Casnoff and in her delightful "Barbara Song" about lost innocence. Above all, Neuwirth's Jenny and Casnoff's Macheath set the tone — she with her sharp, combative watchfulness; he with the murderous impulse not quite concealed beneath his song-and-dance grace. Neuwirth is as outstanding in her cynical "Solomon Song" as in the "Moritat" and "Pirate Jenny." Casnoff, too, sings beautifully, rendering Macheath's great paeans to corruption and soulful gallows hymns with dynamic intensity. And their tango duet ("Pimp's Ballad") is stunning in its erotic electricity and vicious execution. It's altogether a brilliant production, Brecht and Weill's "opera for beggars" delivered with a wondrously ragtag "splendor only a beggar could imagine" (though not, as the prologue goes on to state, "at a price even a beggar can afford"). As Neuwirth sings its acute final verses — about a society divided between those who walk in light and "those in darkness lost to sight" — it's hard to leave the Geary without a deeper awareness of the social injustices so evident in the surrounding streets. The Threepenny Opera PLAYWRIGHT Bertolt Brecht COMPOSER Kurt Weill DIRECTOR Carey Perloff CAST Philip Casnoff, Bebe Neuwirth, Anika Noni Rose, Lisa Vroman, Nancy Dussault, Steven Anthony Jones THEATER ACT, Geary Theater, through Oct. 3 (415-749-2228) The new translation, I should add, is very different from the Mark Blitztein we were all used to. Happy Ending! Marjorie Perloff ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:11:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: Kenning - shameless plug In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990828131648.006cba88@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> from "Patrick F. Durgin" at Aug 28, 1999 01:16:48 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy folks, thought I'd shamelessly plug the essay of mine which appears in the "poetics" section of the new KENNING. It's called "Democratic Symbolic Action: Sketches Toward a Guide to Practice," and is a laying-out of some techniques employed in the writings of Emerson, Ellison and O'Hara. The theoretical framework (what there is of one!) draws on various strands of American pragmatism: William James, John Dewey, Kenneth Burke, Clifford Geertz, Cornel West. Anyway, there it is. You can see from Patrick's list of contributors that KENNING's worth picking up regardless of my small contribution. -m. ording to Patrick F. Durgin: > > As summer draws to a close and the air gradually cools, I think it's high > time I send off the summer '99 issue of Kenning. If you are bound to > receive a copy in the coming week, you are either a contributor or a > subscriber (or some other sort of co-conspirator). You know if you fit > these criteria and you know if you don't. For the latter, let me invite > you to snap up a copy before they're gone (see ordering information at the > end of this message). And if you'd rather not receive publication > announcements from Kenning in the future, reply to the e-mail address at > the end of this message and say so: you will be taken off the mailing list. > > Kenning Vol. 2, No. 2 Issue #5 Summer 1999 > C O N T E N T S > Poetry: > Lyn Hejinian > Peter Neufeld > Rachel Blau DuPlessis > John M. Bennett > Peter O'Leary > E. Tracy Grinnell > Brian Kim Stefans > Brent Cunningham > Jon Cone > Michael Basinski > Gene Tanta > Michael Gottlieb > Kristin Prevallet > Clark Coolidge > Poetics: > Michael Magee > Reviews: > Sarah Mangold's *Blood Substitutes* by Daniel J. Beachy-Quick > *Snake Hiss* compact disc by Patrick F. Durgin > Editor's Note: > "Agent and Agency" > 89 pp. / $5.00 > > Purchase a sample copy by sending a check or M.O. for $5.00 payable to the > editor, Patrick F. Durgin, to 418 Brown St. #10, Iowa City, Iowa, 52245. > Subscribe to receive 2 issues ($9.50) or 4 issues ($19.00) by sending the > appropriate amount to the same. Subscribers receive their issues in > loose-leaf as well as a hand-printed portfolio suitable to hold several > (about 5) numbers of the newsletter. For more information on most every > aspect of the newsletter, see the Kenning website > > http://www.avalon.net/~kenning > > The autumn/winter '00 issue of Kenning is entitled "Cunning: a descriptive > checklist of tentative politics" and is collaboratively guest-edited by > myself, Renee Gladman, Jen Hofer, and Rod Smith. See the website for more > information. > > Thanks and best wishes for the coming season: Patrick F. Durgin > > > k e n n i n g > a newsletter of contemporary poetry > http://www.avalon.net/~kenning > 418 Brown St. #10, Iowa City, IA 52245, USA > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:13:51 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: call for work for Tinfish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _Tinfish_'s covers are usually made separately from the issue's innards. But this time the designer Gaye Chan tells me that the next issue's cover will be made of historical cereal boxes (she found hundreds in a dumpster somewhere). SO: those of you from the Pacific region (especially), please send poems about boxes, in boxes, of boxes, boxly poems. Address: 47-391 Hui Iwa Street #3, Kaneohe, HI 96744 USA. AND: please buy the new issue ($5 per; $13 for three). I pay for everything myself (except for postage) and so your support is crucial to keep the enterprise going. Same address. Will give you a sense of what I look for, too. thanks much, Susan Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:13:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Harry Matthews, Histoire... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this came to the administrative account. thanks. ---------------------------------------------- Histoire Tina and Seth met in the midst of an overcrowded militarism. "Like a drink:" he asked her? "They make great Alexanders over at the Marxism-Leninism." She agreed. They shared cocktails. They behaved cautiously, as in a period of pre-fascism. Afterwards he suggested dinner at a restaurant renowned for its Maoism. "O,K.," she said, but first she had to phone a friend about her ailing Afghan, whose name was Racism. Then she followed Seth across town past twilit alleys of sexism. The waiter brought menus and announced the day's specials. He treated them with condescending sexism. So they had another drink. Tina started her meal with a dish of militarism, While Seth, who was hungrier, had a half portion of stuffed baked racism. Their main dishes were roast duck for Seth, and for Tina broiled Marxism-Leninism. Tina had a pecan pie a la for dessert, Seth a compote of stewed Maoism. They lingered. Seth proposed a liqueur. They rejected sambuca and agreed on fascism. During the meal, Seth took the initiative. He inquired into Tina's fascism, About which she was rserved, not out of reticence but because Seth's sexism Had aroused in her a desire she felt she should hide -- as though her Maoism Would willy-nilly betray her feelings for him. She was right. Even her deliberate militarism Couldn't keep Seth from realizing that his attraction was reciprocated. His own Marxism-Leninism Became manifest, in a compulsive way that piled the Ossa of confusion on the Peleion of racism. Next, what? Food finished, drinks drunk, bills paid -- what racism Might not swamp their yearning in an even greater confusion of fascism? But women are wiser than words. Tina rested her hand on his thigh and, a-twinkle with Marxism-Leninism, Asked him, "My place?" Clarity at once abounded under the flood-lights of sexism, They rose from the table, strode out, and he with the impetuousness of young militarism Hailed a cab to transport them to her lair, heaven-haven of Maoism. In the taxi he soon kissed her. She let him unbutton her Maoism And stroke her resilient skin, which was quivering with shudders of racism. When beneath her jeans he sensed the superior Lycra of her militarism, His longing almost strangled him. Her little tongue was as potent as fascism In its elusive certainty. He felt like then and there tearing off her sexism, But he reminded himself: "Pleasure lies in patience, not in the greedy violence of Marxism-Leninism." Once home, she took over. She created a hungering aura of Marxism- Leninism As she slowly undressed him where he sat on her overstuffed art-deco Maoism. Making him keep still, so that she could indulge in caresses, in sexism, In the pursuit of knowing him. He growned under the exactness of her racism --Fingertip sliding up his nape, nails incising his soles, teeth nibbling his fascism. At last she guided him to bed, and they lay down on a patchwork of Old American militarism. Biting his lips, he plunged his militarism into the popular context of her Marxism-Leninism, Easing one thumb into her fascism, with his free hand coddling the tip of her Maoism, Until, gasping with appreciative racism, both together sink into the revealed glory of sexism. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:17:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Harry Matthews, Historie... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit apologies for omitting the "From" line & time sent. here we go again. ------------------------------------------ From: Poetangles@aol.com 9/11/99, 9:31 PM +0000 Histoire Tina and Seth met in the midst of an overcrowded militarism. "Like a drink:" he asked her? "They make great Alexanders over at the Marxism-Leninism." She agreed. They shared cocktails. They behaved cautiously, as in a period of pre-fascism. Afterwards he suggested dinner at a restaurant renowned for its Maoism. "O,K.," she said, but first she had to phone a friend about her ailing Afghan, whose name was Racism. Then she followed Seth across town past twilit alleys of sexism. The waiter brought menus and announced the day's specials. He treated them with condescending sexism. So they had another drink. Tina started her meal with a dish of militarism, While Seth, who was hungrier, had a half portion of stuffed baked racism. Their main dishes were roast duck for Seth, and for Tina broiled Marxism-Leninism. Tina had a pecan pie a la for dessert, Seth a compote of stewed Maoism. They lingered. Seth proposed a liqueur. They rejected sambuca and agreed on fascism. During the meal, Seth took the initiative. He inquired into Tina's fascism, About which she was rserved, not out of reticence but because Seth's sexism Had aroused in her a desire she felt she should hide -- as though her Maoism Would willy-nilly betray her feelings for him. She was right. Even her deliberate militarism Couldn't keep Seth from realizing that his attraction was reciprocated. His own Marxism-Leninism Became manifest, in a compulsive way that piled the Ossa of confusion on the Peleion of racism. Next, what? Food finished, drinks drunk, bills paid -- what racism Might not swamp their yearning in an even greater confusion of fascism? But women are wiser than words. Tina rested her hand on his thigh and, a-twinkle with Marxism-Leninism, Asked him, "My place?" Clarity at once abounded under the flood-lights of sexism, They rose from the table, strode out, and he with the impetuousness of young militarism Hailed a cab to transport them to her lair, heaven-haven of Maoism. In the taxi he soon kissed her. She let him unbutton her Maoism And stroke her resilient skin, which was quivering with shudders of racism. When beneath her jeans he sensed the superior Lycra of her militarism, His longing almost strangled him. Her little tongue was as potent as fascism In its elusive certainty. He felt like then and there tearing off her sexism, But he reminded himself: "Pleasure lies in patience, not in the greedy violence of Marxism-Leninism." Once home, she took over. She created a hungering aura of Marxism- Leninism As she slowly undressed him where he sat on her overstuffed art-deco Maoism. Making him keep still, so that she could indulge in caresses, in sexism, In the pursuit of knowing him. He growned under the exactness of her racism --Fingertip sliding up his nape, nails incising his soles, teeth nibbling his fascism. At last she guided him to bed, and they lay down on a patchwork of Old American militarism. Biting his lips, he plunged his militarism into the popular context of her Marxism-Leninism, Easing one thumb into her fascism, with his free hand coddling the tip of her Maoism, Until, gasping with appreciative racism, both together sink into the revealed glory of sexism. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:21:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: Angela Bowering Comments: To: subsubpoetics@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >X-From_: dadababy@netcom.ca Sat Sep 11 17:35:54 1999 >X-Sender: dadababy@popd.netcom.ca >Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:29:54 >To: easter-island@sfu.ca >From: Jamie Reid >Subject: Re:Angela Bowering >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >Dear friends > >I spoke with George Bowering at his home earlier this afternoon, and he >agreed that the sad news of the death of his dear wife and our dear friend, >Angela, should be made available to as many of her friends as possible. > >Below is the obituary which appeared in the Vancouver Sun, supplied to me >through e-mail by William Thornton-Trump, one of George's oldest friends. > >George and Thea were together at their family home and both of them were >well, though obviously suffering from their loss. George said that they >were surrounded by Angela's loyal friends, who have been taking care of >everything. > >Carol Matthews told me that a memorial ceremony is planned on October 3rd >in Vancouver. Further information will be posted as it becomes available. > >I also spoke to George about preparing a memorial publication in Angela's >honour, containing some of Angela's own writings alongside memoirs/poems >etc. from her friends. Anyone who wishes to make contributions, please send >them to me via e-mail or to the postal address below. >> >>>From The Vancouver Sun. September 11, 1999. >> >>BOWERING - Angela (nee Luoma) >>May 5, 1940 - September 8, 1999. >>Our lovely wife, mother, teacher, gardener extraordinaire. She came out of >>the silence of a Quadra Island forest and brought us enough words for many >>lifetimes. Her students at Kwantlen College and Simon Fraser University >>learned passionate love of difficult books. Her readers admired her deep >>heart and gorgeous wit. Her fiercely loyal friends will ensure her presence >>in this world. She loved high art and she cared intensely for the earth. She >>created a garden that attracted journalists and passersby, and she began her >>book about the great Sheila Watson with Watson's spoken care: >>"What I was concerned with was figures in a ground, from which they could >>not be separated." >>Angela is survived by her daughter Thea, her husband George, sisters Joan >>Wright and Camille Luoma and many, many loving friends. >>A memorial celebration will be held in the near future. >>Anyone wishing to offer a gesture of love and respect should make a donation >>to the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada. To contact the family for >>further information, contact Walkey & Company Funeral Directors at (604) >>738-0006. >> >Jamie Reid >382 East 4th Street >North Vancouver, BC >V7L 1J2 >tel: (604) 980-9361 >> >> > forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:43:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Loss =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peque=F1o?= Glazier Subject: Fwd: Text Manipulation Tools archive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A recommendation for this text processing web site. (Also available via the EPC.) >Some folks here might be interested in our new archive of >text-processor (as in Cuisinart, not WordStar) tools now >online: > > http://www.burningpress.org/toolbox/index.html > > >Various forms of text manglement and dissembly, including >a couple of programs based on Jackson Mac Low's techniques... > >would be happy to hear of additions, corrections, or comment... >or to see the results of any experiments y'all might perform >using these or other tools... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:14:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Julu and I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = Julu And I MMyy aarrmm ffoolllloowweedd mmyy aarrmm aass II lliifftteedd tthhee kkeettttllee ffrroomm tthhee ssttoovvee,, ffoolllloowwiinngg tthhee kkeettttllee oonn tthhee ssttoovvee;; mmyy hheeaadd mmoovveedd bbaacckk ffrroomm mmyy hheeaadd mmoovveedd bbaacckk ffrroomm mmyy hheeaadd aass II ppllaacceedd tthhee kkeettttllee ffoolllloowwiinngg tthhee kkeettttllee wwiitthh mmyy hhaannddss oonn tthhee hhaannddss oonn tthhee ccuurrvveedd hhaannddllee aattttaacchheedd ttoo tthhee ccuurrvveedd hhaannddllee oonn tthhee bbaacckk ooff tthhee bbaacckk;; ffllaammeess sshhoott uupp tthhrroouugghh ffllaammeess sshhoott uupp aatt tthhee kkeettttllee ooff tthhee kkeettttllee,, hheeaattiinngg iitt aanndd hheeaattiinngg iitt;; II wwiitthhddrreeww mmaayy hhaanndd aanndd mmyy hhaanndd aanndd mmyy hhaanndd aanndd mmyy hhaanndd ffrroomm tthhee hhaannddllee aanndd tthhee hhaannddllee,, ttuurrnniinngg aawwaayy,, mmyy aarrmm ffoolllloowwiinngg mmyy aarrmm ttuurrnniinngg aawwaayy ffrroomm tthhee ffllaammee tthhrroouugghh tthhee ffllaammee;; aafftteerrwwaarrddss aafftteerr-- wwaarrddss II wwoouulldd ppoouurr wwaatteerr ppoouurriinngg ffrroomm tthhee kkeettttllee aanndd tthhee kkeettttllee wwiitthh mmyy aarrmm ffoolllloowwiinngg mmyy aarrmm,, tthhee wwaatteerr ppoouurriinngg iinn wwaatteerr ppoouurriinngg iinn wwaatteerr ddoowwnn iinnttoo tthhee ccuupp nneexxtt ttoo tthhee ccuupp iinn tthhee ccuupp;; tthhee ccooffffeeee aanndd ccooffffeeee sstteeaammiinngg,, ffoolllloowwiinngg tthhee sstteeaammiinngg ffoolllloowwiinngg tthhee sstteeaammiinngg,, wwhhiillee dduurriinngg wwhhiicchh AAhhhh AAhhhh II eecchhooeedd,, rreeppeeaattiinngg mmyy mmoouutthh ffoolllloowwiinngg aanndd rreeppeeaattiinngg mmyy mmoouutthh,, aa ddeelliicciioouuss bbrreeww.. __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:29:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Loss =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peque=F1o?= Glazier Subject: Fwd: Text Manipulation Tools archive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A recommendation from the EPC on this text processing web page. (Also available via: the EPC's "Connects" area (http://epc.buffalo.edu/connects/) and the EPC "New" list (http://epc.buffalo.edu/display/new.html). >Some folks here might be interested in our new archive of >text-processor (as in Cuisinart, not WordStar) tools now >online: > > http://www.burningpress.org/toolbox/index.html > >Various forms of text manglement and dissembly, including >a couple of programs based on Jackson Mac Low's techniques... > >would be happy to hear of additions, corrections, or comment... >or to see the results of any experiments y'all might perform >using these or other tools... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:58:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Electronic Literary Arts Newsletter (ELAN #2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit **************************************************** ELECTRONIC LITERARY ARTS NEWSLETTER #2, September 99 Note: ELAN is a non-commercial newsletter sponsored by a collaboration of magazines, writers, editors, and publishers at Web Del Sol, and directed only to members of the literary arts community. **************************************************** FEATURES AND HEADLINES THIS ISSUE: - Letter From the Editor - Federal Court Blocks MI Net Censorship Law; Lit. Types Exult - Iranian Cleric Claims Rushdie Was Not to be Killed - Cortland Review: The People Magazine of Poetry - Arts Wire Features Trace Online Writing Community - Small Fish Thriving/Big Fish Bloated:Small Presses, Big Presses - All Feast No Famine: What's New at Web Del Sol - PBQ to Feature Film; Plus, IndieWIRE on Blair Witchiness - Yeats Summer School Opens in Sligo, Ireland - Stephen Spender's Provencal Home Burned - Writers Writing/Writers Talking: Susan Dodd from the North Carolina Coast - Around Towns: Events, Announcements, Calls ----------------------------------------------------- Welcome to Issue Two of ELAN. We've been delighted by a slew of positive comment, a tremendous stream of new subscribers, and a little bit of news from our readers. To repeat myself a bit (heat-stroked editrix that I am), please do send your responses and announcements. Is there a fantastic website we haven't mentioned once? A major literary prize awarded about which we've said nary a word? Is your book about to be published? Much as we aim for a breezy but informative perfection, oversight is probable, so keep me posted. Liana Scalettar Editor elan_editor@webdelsol.com ---------------------------------------------------- CENSORSHIP LAW BLOCKED BY FEDS According to Arts Wire , a federal judge has blocked the enforcement of a Michigan law that would have criminalized the online display or dissemination of "'sexually explicit matter'" to minors. With his ruling, in which he called the Internet "'an international free flow of ideas and information,'" Judge Tarnow prevented enforcement of the law until later this year, when a full trial will be held. Since Web Del Sol is a plaintiff in this case, we're ecstatic about this first round. CLERIC SAYS RUSHDIE WAS NOT TO BE KILLED The Associated Press notes the August 25th publication of a statement by an Iranian cleric in which he claims that Rushdie was not condemned to death by the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. The Tehran newspaper, Khordad, quoted Hojjat ol-Islam Seyyed Hoseyn Musavi-Tabrizi as saying that Khomeini's "exact intention was not the killing of" Rushdie, but rather publicity "to prevent a conspiracy against Islam." The AP speculates that Musavi-Tabrizi, along with other supporters of Iranian President Khatami's reforms, is trying to downplay the fatwa. CORTLAND REVIEW: THE PEOPLE MAGAZINE OF POETRY Sol's ex-pat Cyber Rambler sheds precipitation on the Cortland Review parade--a once highly regarded webzine, now found wanting in some respects. Whether or not you speedbump on this one, you'll admit the criticisms are provocative and often painfully humorous simply because they ring so true. This one in particular will result in considerable inflammation: "The Cortland Review is all about getting the unleavened poem to rise,against all odds, without the poetic yeast. It does this through a painstaking celebration of poet as celebrity, and by the creation of a kind of I'm Okay You're Okay ambience. It is an approach oddly-or perhaps not so oddly-reminiscent of People magazine." TRACE ONLINE WRITING COMMUNITY LOOMS LARGE AT ARTS WIRE Also at Arts Wire for the week of August 2 is Sue Thomas's trAce An online writing community, trAce members critique, read, write, and grouse. The site also features East Midlands Hypertext, a fesity Call for Opinions, and a virtual writer-in-residence. Current Resident Christy Sheffield weighs in with the just-launched My Millenium, an 'online anthology devoted to the subject of time and the digital revolution.' SMALL FISH STILL KICKING/BIG FISH TURNS INTO A FAT CAT In an August 2nd article, Publishers Weekly's John High discusses the anniveraries of three small (dare I say tiny but fabulous?) presses . Berkeley-based Kelsey Street Press, founded by Rena Rosenwasser and Patricia Dienstfrey, is celebrating its twenty-fifth anniversary. A publisher of award-winning poet Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Kelsey Street this year sold its archives to UC Berkeley's Bancroft Library.Colorado-based Johnson Books turns twenty, and Cydney Chadwick's Avec Books turns seven. On the anniversary front as well, Graywolf Press will celebrate its 25th on September 30th. To be hosted by Robert Pinsky, the event will honor Jane Kenyon and William Stafford. According to Poets and Writers , tickets for the fete are available at the door of Ted Mann Concert Hall at the University of Minnesota or through the university's ticket office at which can be reached at (612) 624-2345. PW reports also on the founding of Toby Press, launching this fall. The new house, established in the UK by Matthew Miller, will publish hardcover, new fiction exclusively and will sell directly to customers through its catalogue, its web site, and direct mail. Because of its unusual approach, the press is pouring money into fall advertising in the New Yorker, Granta, and the New York Times Book Review. Titles slated for fall publication are: Failing Paris, by Samantha Dunn, Absence, by Raymond Tallis, The Masterpiece, by Anna Enquist, Cardiofitness, by Allessandra Montrucchio, After the Campfires by Per Jorner, and The Forwarding Agent, by Austen Kark. Meanwhile, HarperCollins has completed its acquisition of Morrow and Avon from Hearst. (See ELAN #1 for more.) And, in efforts to save money and maintain more contron over marketing, Harper is forming an in-house advertising agency. ALL FEAST NO FAMINE: NEW AT WEB DEL SOL WDS urges to satisfy all moods, open all windows. So prod, observe, react. It lives! Editor's Picks Issue 3 <"http://webdelsol.com/Editor"> announces a new era for the publishing of original work at Web Del Sol. They've outdone themselves this time. Thanks to the talented and nonesuch editorial staff (Mike Neff, Joan Houilihan, Vince Montague, Rachel Callaghan, Paul Beckman, David Berg-Seiter, Shoshanna Wingate, and Tony Lombardy) the collection is not only enormous, but unique and diverse. Who are we talking about? Dana Levin, Leslie Scalapino, Lucie Brock-Broido, Charles Bernstein, Lisa Jarnot, Mark Jarman, Deborah Olin Unferth, Heather McHugh, Flaminia Ocampo, RoseMarie London, Victoria Redel, Ichi Batacan, Rhina Espaillat, Cecelia Hagen, Wendy Mnookin, Michael Bugeja, Holly Iglesias, and many more. Can these guys name drop or what? Most exciting, this past month Web Del Sol was selected and given a stellar rating by a major Internet review. Access Magazine--a Sunday news supplement which goes to millions of readers--has named WDS one of their top 100 web sites. The top three literary 4 stars were WDS, Salon, and Slate. In comparison, Atlantic Unbound received 3 stars and MoJo Wire only 2. Not bad for an organization which receives no grants, sells no advertising, and is composed solely of volunteers. Five Points has arrived in style, with poetry by Eamon Grennon, Charlie Smith, and A.E. Stallings, and fiction by Max Garland. This first venture into the WDS waters highlights Volume 3, Number 3 of the journal. A grateful Venice thanks TLR for this issue with contributions by Albert Russo, John Drury, Joan Nilon, and others. Sample from La Tempestra, On Not Dying in Venice, The Foot of St. Catherine, and Venetian Thresholds. Call the travel agent, balance your credit cards, and let TLR be your bubble train and gondola The summer '99 issue of the New England Review features Tom Paine, John Poch, and Sue Kwock Kim. NER's archives also provide much good reading. The Audio Vault at Conjunctions is now featuring Lydia Davis, Mary Caponegro, and Rikki Ducornet reading from their work. And the upcoming issue, Crossing Over, looks stunning in preview. Look for excerpts from new novels by Lois-Ann Yamanaka, Paul West, Carole Maso, and others; poetry by Peter Sacks, Reginald Shepherd, and Arthur Sze; and newly translated work by Thomas Bernhard. As promised, Quarterly West is back--red, revamped, and (safe to say) better than ever. Because the journal's home institution, the University of Utah, has switched to a semester schedule, QW will now publish in October and April. The Spring-Summer '99 Issue features short-shorts by Karen Wolf, Nick Foster, and Josh Russell; poetry by Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Elizabeth Seydel Morgan, and Marcus Cafagna; and fiction by Gordon Lish, Sally Bellerose, and Franklin Fisher. Coming up in QW: winners of the mag's biennial novella contest. Swing by Quarterly West at . Last but so not least, Painted Bride Quarterly needs essays on contemporary cinema, screen play excerpts, and fiction and poetry influenced by film for their second annual film issue, which will be published in conjunction with the Philadelphia Festival of World Cinema. You'll find poetry by Kenneth Bernard and Rocky Wilson; fiction by Ariana-Sophia M. Kartsonis, and a special film section in the current issue. NB: when I was a disaffected youth in Philly, I thought that the Painted Bride (large cavernous arts space, non-virtual) was the coolest place in the world, and, despite my sullen broodings, turns out I was not far off. Please go visit them when you can. Thank you. PAINTED BRIDE QUARTERLY TO FEATURE FILM; INDIEWIRE HELPS SCARE YOU SILLY Ah. Having read this far, you know about PBQ already. Should you visit the City of Brotherly Love, do also visit Cacia's in South Philly for rolls, rolls, and more rolls. You'll be happy. I hope they're still there--they must be. Indiewire, a comprehensive source for independent film news at , discusses the phenomenal success of the mock doc 'Blair Witch Project." Also, learn about the appointment of Stephen Gallagher as the new publisher of Filmmaker magazine. According to Arts Wire, the Women's Film Preservation Fund of New York Women in Film and television seeks proposals for the 'funding of preservation or restoration of American films in which women had significant creative positions. Grants of up to $10,000 are available to individuals and non-profits; the application deadline is September 15, 1999. Contact NYWIFT at 212-679-0870. YEATS SUMMER SCHOOL OPENS IN SLIGO Poetry Daily links to the Irish Times's coverage of the opening of the Yeats Summer School, now in its thirty-ninth year. Nobel laureate and long-time attendee Seamus Heaney gave an opening lecture, and Declan Kiberd and Helen Vendler also were slated to speak. The school draws participants from all over the world to Sligo. STEPHEN SPENDER'S PROVENCAL HOME DESTROYED Visit Poetry Daily as well for its link to The Times's coverage of the destruction of Spender's home near Avignon. The Times article quotes Spender's widow as having lost the late poet's 2,000-book library. His beloved garden and mementoes of Auden and Isherwood were apparently lost as well. WRITERS WRITING/WRITERS TALKING: SUSAN DODD FROM THE NORTH CAROLINA COAST Novelist and short-story writer Susan Dodd talks with PublishersWeekly from her secluded home on a North Carolina island. Not only does she live alone in a simple house on the shore, she doesn't even have a phone! We love the idea but would surely die of loneliness. Dodd, evidently made of stronger stuff, has not. The author, most recently, of The Mourner's Bench, she discusses the importance of voice, luck, and risk to writers. AROUND TOWNS: CALLS, EVENTS, ANNOUNCEMENTS (a word of caution: I got, I cut, I pasted. Take your questions and problems, should they arise, to the responsible parties. Pas to moi.) $1000 ANAMNESIS POETRY CHAPBOOK AWARD Anamnesis Press is sponsoring its 5th annual poetry chapbook award competition. They're looking for poetry with intellectual and emotional depth that avoids cliches and has an ear for sound and music, although formal structure is not necessary. Previously published material is OK, as long as the author owns the rights to the work and provides acknowledgments. The winner will receive $1000, an award certificate suitable for framing, and 20 copies of the winning chapbook. We encourage poets to submit 20-30 pages of their best poems. Manuscripts must be typed or laser-printed -single-spaced -- with no more than one poem per page, and must include a table of contents (showing page numbers) and two title pages. Include yourname and address on only one of the title pages. NO MANUSCRIPTS WILL BE RETURNED. Manuscripts must be postmarked by March 15, 2000. The winner will be announced in June. Reading fee: US$15 per manuscript. Please make check or money order payable to Anamnesis Press in US dollars drawn on a US bank. Note: all contestants will receive a copy of the winning chapbook. Send manuscripts with entry fee and SASE (for prize notification) to: Anamnesis Press Poetry Chapbook Award Competition P. O. Box 51115 Palo Alto, CA 94303 NO E-MAIL SUBMISSIONS, PLEASE! For information about past winners, Anamnesis Press or its publications, please visit their web site at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/anamnesis/. IN CHICAGO, CHECK OUT THESE EVENTS AT THE GUILD COMPLEX: POETS ACROSS THE GENERATIONS IV featuring Piri Thomas and Luis Rodríguez WHEN: Wednesday, September 8, 1999 at 7:30PM ADMISSION: $7, $5 Students & Seniors, Host Mario Guild Complex LIVE at the Nelson Algren Fountain Featuring Eduardo Arocho, Denise LaGrassa, Mia Lahoz, Sherrille Lamb, Gregory Cullen Wagner, and Avery R. Young, Music by Stone WHEN: Saturday, September 11, 1999 from 2pm to 5pm ADMISSION: Free, Host Michael C. Watson ======================================================== SUBSCRIBE TO THE ELAN AT Copyright Michael Neff, 1999 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:08:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: Cid Corman (more) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have just rec'd a letter from Cid Corman and his situation does indeed sound desperate - no money coming in except for charity or loans. I am taking the liberty of reproducing a small part of the the letter: "We live modestly and I prefer it so, but homelessness wont [sic] do the trick and there is that possibility - unless some real help occurs. I don't like playing the beggar. I'm not good at it. But there is no choice." Best way to get him money (it costs him $35.00 to cash a check) is to have your bank wire it to his bank: Cid Corman (account name) Account Number 095-0010328 Kyoto Shinyo Kinko Bank Omuro Branch Omuro Ukyo-ku Kyoto 616-8208 Japan (bank tel: 075/462-9670). Burt Kimmelman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:35:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: New Small Press Publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This weeks Small Press Publications List is up & running at Duration Press. More than 20 titles are featured. http://www.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:20:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: Laynie Browne/Norma Cole Reading in S.F. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Laynie Browne & Norma Cole will read poetry: Monday, September 27th 7:00 pm. @ Caffé Sapore 790 Lombard Street (At Taylor, near Columbus) San Francisco ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:21:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Graham Foust Subject: Lagniappe #3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Benjamin "Down East" Friedlander and Graham "Midwest" Foust are pleased as all get-out to announce their summer issue (#3 for those keeping score at home): Reviews of: Celona, Burkard, Spahr, Bernstein, Prevallet, Bloom, Dellamora/Fischlin, Clay/Phillips, and Huang by Joel, Graham, Ben, Brian, Dirk, Winnie, Benesis, Linda, and Jonathan. Essays on recent Australian poetry and Jack Spicer by Logan Esdale and Wyman Jennings (respectively and respectfully). A Portable Talk Special Supplement featuring portable talks by Leslie Bumstead and Jean Donnelly. Be there. Aloha. Lagniappe http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~foust/lagniappe.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:49:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another Country by James Baldwin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:04:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thurmon Manson Subject: JIM HUNTER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii THESE MEMORIES IN MEMORIAM JIM HUNTER: BILLY BEAN, send him deep, Santa Ana Junior College, but Hunter's a farmer PINE TAR DOESN'T HELP CAREW KNEW PHIL NIEKRO ENEMY OF S.H.O.W. (SIDEARM HOBOS OF THE WORLD) PEANUTS POPCORN DOS EQUIS FELLATIO I DON'T CARE IF I EVER GET BACK BASES LOADED, BATTER NUMBER 9 AT THE PLATE: THROW: slider fastball curve slider CSONKA IS BUNTING CATFISH CHANGES IT UP AND GARVEY WHIFFS BECAUSE THE BATBOY GAVE HIM A FUNGO INSTEAD OF HIS LOUISVILLE SLOGGER! 35 or 36, his froarms BUT CATFISH IS A CHRISTIAN AND JESUS GIVES HIM BRAIN DISEASE BECAUSE HE CLOTHES FROM LASORDA'S LOCKER GOODBYE CATFISH SHUNTER! THANKS TO YOU THE WORKING CLASS CANNOT GO THE BALLPARK ANYMORE WITH THE WHOLE FAMILY!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:15:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: Buffalo area literary stuff? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is for the actual Buffalo-area contingent on the list...I'm planning to attend the Susan Howe reading there on Friday night, and having never been to Buffalo before, wanted advice on what to do/where to go. I know I want to go to the Poetry Collection in the library, but was wondering how easy it is to browse through, and how much time I should plan on that. Then, what are the good bookstores, and where should I eat supper? I'm driving in from Syracuse, which has no good bookstores and almost no good places to eat supper, so I'm hoping for a change of scene...thanks! If you can't post this to the whole list, could the list moderator please just answer? Arielle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:43:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Mayer/Machlin Reading Comments: To: dmachlin@interport.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Poetry Reading: BERNADETTE MAYER & DAN MACHLIN @ THE DACTYL FOUNDATION FOR THE ARTS AND HUMANITIES Thursday, September 16th, 7:30 PM 64 Grand Street New York City 212/219-2344 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:24:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: hypertext suggestions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dodie, You might want to take a look at Charles Bernstein's syllabus for his Spring '98 prose seminar. The list of texts and links for weeks 6 and 7 are a good place to start, though many have some (possibly interesting, but to my mind, fairly serious) problems - i.e., the way Michael Joyce's writing might be marshalled into the service of the "new public university"'s corporate-auxiliary "public-private partnership model." Or Bolter's over-enthusiastic "hypertext-as-Paolo-Freire-in-a-box" pedagogical riffing... Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Dodie Bellamy Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:18 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: hypertext suggestions Hi, I have an independent study student who is going to do a hypertext horror piece. I have no problem helping her with the horror end of the project, but also want to suggest some good hypertext pieces and/or theories. I'm sending her the urls of a couple things that have caught my eye, but does anyone have any suggestions of some cut-above hypertext links? Or even books/articles on hypertext? Thanks. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:14:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: hypertext suggestions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" miekal and alan sondheim i think wd be best to contact. as for urls, may i suggest our (my and miekal's) "literature nation" at http://net22.com/qazingulaza/joglars/litnat/index.html At 8:18 PM -0700 9/9/99, Dodie Bellamy wrote: >Hi, I have an independent study student who is going to do a >hypertext horror piece. I have no problem helping her with the >horror end of the project, but also want to suggest some good >hypertext pieces and/or theories. I'm sending her the urls of a >couple things that have caught my eye, but does anyone have any >suggestions of some cut-above hypertext links? Or even >books/articles on hypertext? > >Thanks. > >Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:59:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Manfred Obenzinger Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A while back I asked for suggestions for a satirical fiction course and received a lot of good suggestions, so here are a few: Catch 22, Cat's Cradle and Slaughterhouse 5, Naked Lunch and other Burroughs, early Ishmael Reed, Crying of Lot 49 and other early Pynchon, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Portnoy's Complaint and other early Roth, late Dawn Powell. I'm sure there's much more, including Gilbert Sorrentino, Jack Kerouac, John Barth, Updike. Hilton Obenzinger On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Maria Damon wrote: > At 4:41 PM -0800 9/8/99, Mark Salerno wrote: > >Colleagues: > > > >I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with suggestions for a course on the > >Novels of the Sixties. Of particular interest are novels that reflect, > >in form and/or content, the counter culture. The limit for this theme > >(arbitrary though it may be) is that the publication date of the book > >must fall between 1960 and 1970. > > > >Reply by backchannel. > > > >Thank you. > > > >Mark Salerno > > i'd be curious to hear folks's suggestions so if you don't mind > frontchannel, mine is Leonard Cohen's Beautiful Losers. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:14:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pete, Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this line of accusation. I need to be clear. Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, hacking them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if their govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This sounds naive to the point of absurdity. I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and then the slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for me? I don't see it from what you are saying. Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those who believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck their barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we send overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac (sp?) in Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the murdering we see now? I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time line me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or Moynihan or Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to other large groups of people. Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. Mike pete spence wrote: > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > to:indonesia@un.int > president@whitehouse.gov > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > thanks pete spence > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > >as good > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > >chaotic > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > >else > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think they > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of the > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > >regards, > >Patrick Herron > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > >better > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > >thanks pete spence > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:51:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: Re: call for work for Tinfish Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:13 PM 9/11/99 -1000, you wrote: >_Tinfish_'s covers are usually made separately from the issue's >innards. But this time the designer Gaye Chan tells me that the next >issue's cover will be made of historical cereal boxes (she found >hundreds in a dumpster somewhere). > >SO: those of you from the Pacific region (especially), please send poems >about boxes, in boxes, of boxes, boxly poems. Address: 47-391 Hui Iwa >Street #3, Kaneohe, HI 96744 USA. > >AND: please buy the new issue ($5 per; $13 for three). I pay for >everything myself (except for postage) and so your support is crucial to >keep the enterprise going. Same address. Will give you a sense of what >I look for, too. > >thanks much, > >Susan Schultz Hey, I'm not from the Pacific Region, but I have a poem about boxes! Cheers, Philip Nikolayev BOXES Boxes are hoaxes of the imagination, they fold out backwards and proceed to foreclose themselves from the other side so as to afford a view, which may or may not be outside our purview. Last night I stared into a box, I was like a box within a box, boxed in by a larger boxing. To establish the level of nesting is never possible, but possible is nothing, I can box my way out of a wet paper bag, but bags are not boxes. I couldn’t bag my way into a dry paper box. The plastic box my daughter likes to play with at her nine years of age shines to a transparency no critic has yet dared to problematize. Clear rolls the red ball on the gray carpet. I am like that too. Thus in the box of our life trespassing magnolias in morganatic obsession bow to me, they linger in this miracle lens, white and wide void of hope. The yellow big forsythia too has gone loony near the steps of the library. Have you seen it where for some reason I, an atrabilious bastard, cast these lines across a sky-spotted landscape which causes tears to flow and cheers to follow and wonders where the seagulls go, and where the swallow, and where the mast, all packed away into boxes of memory? I open them and close them as I please, as if they were divine. As the logarithms in my heart click with boxes of expectation, so the bottleneck of proclivity simply turns to the shoebox at the entrance. The flowers are still on the floor, and then all these boxes of books, boxes of knowledge in the basement. Why do we keep them? Because boxes are peace. A blue fox in a black box is unknowable. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:22:36 -0400 Reply-To: shana Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: shana Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dammit billy i was gonna say trout fishing in america but also slouching towards bethlehem -joan didion valley of the dolls-jacqueline suzann the kandy-kolored tangerine-flake streamline baby-tom wolfe a sport and a pastime-james salter the chosen-chaim potok the painted bird-jerzy kosinski sorry for the bourgeoisie, don't hold my 22 years against me! shana http://www.bway.net/~shana ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: Highwire reading @ 3PM Comments: To: aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM ************************************************************** Coming at ya like locusts.... H_I_GH__W_IR_E reading series presents: >> Kristin Prevallet << &&&&&& >> Matt Hart << Highwire Gallery, 139 N. 2nd St, Phila. Sat., September 18, 3PM (note: NOT OUR NORMAL TIME. IF you show up at 8pm, you will be witness to a FRINGE festival avant garde musical performance put on by IMP, not a poetry reading. Tell yr friends!) POETS: Kristen Prevallet lives in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. She is writing an essay about woman authors writing during the Beat Generation. Matt Hart is earning a Ph.D. from the University of Pennsylvania. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:17:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: Harryman and Lu read at SPT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1274854249==_ma============" --============_-1274854249==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *** SMALL PRESS TRAFFIC READING*** Carla Harryman Pamela Lu =46riday, September 17, 7:30 p.m. Carla Harryman is as famous for the books she hasn't yet published (such as her novel in progress, Gardener of Stars, or the collaboration with Lyn Hejinian, The Wide Road) as for the ones she has. Today we're here to celebrate the move of one long-awaited work from column A to column B, as O Books presents us with The Words, Harryman's unique blend of Carl Sandburg's Rootabaga Tales and Jean-Paul Sartre's The Words. Harryman is the author of Vice, Animal Instincts, There Never Was a Rose without a Thorn, and the play Memory Play. With its extended narrative games, its fateful Sadeian psychology, The Words fractures childhood and conventional notions of the child, revealing the fever dream of selfhood under the placid skin of youth, of poetry, of the amused. We've missed her in the Bay Area since she took off for the wilds of Grosse Pointe, and oh, how we're glad she's back. Pamela Lu took Harryman's tentative, ambiguous 'we' and ran with it the full nine yards in Pamela: a Novel (Atelos), which some critics have acclaimed as the "last masterpiece of the 20th Century." When you're Pamela Lu, you have the reclam=E9 of your peers, the admiration of your elders, the wisdom of one far beyond your years, and a prose style at once grave and gay, filtered and remarkably direct. You've already grown up in a "provincial region of Southern California," studied math at UC Berkeley, moved to the Mission. You co-edit Idiom, the "occasionally productive" online journal and chapbook press. Your attention has turned to a new blend of poetry, history, determination and we-ness, "The Accused." To cap it all off you have joined the board of Small Press Traffic, because, just because, you're Pamela Lu. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1274854249==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Times_New_Roman*** SMALL PRESS TRAFFIC READING*** Carla Harryman Pamela Lu =46riday, September 17, 7:30 p.m. Carla Harryman is as famous for the books she hasn't yet published (such as her novel in progress, Gardener of Stars, or the collaboration with Lyn Hejinian, The Wide Road) as for the ones she has. Today we're here to celebrate the move of one long-awaited work from column A to column B, as O Books presents us with The Words, Harryman's unique blend of Carl Sandburg's Rootabaga Tales and Jean-Paul Sartre's The Words. Harryman is the author of Vice, Animal Instincts, There Never Was a Rose without a Thorn, and the play Memory Play. With its extended narrative games, its fateful Sadeian psychology, The Words fractures childhood and conventional notions of the child, revealing the fever dream of selfhood under the placid skin of youth, of poetry, of the amused. We've missed her in the Bay Area since she took off for the wilds of Grosse Pointe, and oh, how we're glad she's back. Pamela Lu took Harryman's tentative, ambiguous 'we' and ran with it the full nine yards in Pamela: a Novel (Atelos), which some critics have acclaimed as the "last masterpiece of the 20th Century." When you're Pamela Lu, you have the reclam=E9 of your peers, the admiration of your elders, the wisdom of one far beyond your years, and a prose style at once grave and gay, filtered and remarkably direct. You've already grown up in a "provincial region of Southern California," studied math at UC Berkeley, moved to the Mission. You co-edit Idiom, the "occasionally productive" online journal and chapbook press. Your attention has turned to a new blend of poetry, history, determination and we-ness, "The Accused." To cap it all off you have joined the board of Small Press Traffic, because, just because, you're Pamela Lu. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1274854249==_ma============-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:56:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Emily Lloyd Subject: Writing Through Ally Comments: To: cforchem@osf1.gmu.edu, pklapper@osf1.gmu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The WashPost's TV Guide makes the following summary of tonight's "Ally McBeal" episode: 'The firm gathers at Ally's place to celebrate the launch of Elaine's "Face Bra"; a smitten John Cage tries to spark a fire with Nelle.' em ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:54:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: untitled MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = Untitled With the slightest increase in temperature, a packet is dropped off at a site of my loved one. It waits, trembling, for others, all organized into the coherency of beauty, "the harmony of chance and the good" (Simone Weil). All together, in wonderful bewilderment, they form a whole, their long and arduous journeys forgotten. How wonderful, my loved one exclaims, that he has written a letter. Under what circumstances can we speak for the other? Only in the face and throes of death, under an alterity permanently limiting, incomprehensible. Then we may speak, and speak for no one and anyone at all. There, at the threshold, all speech is permitted; a black ocean laps at the base of the cliff, its temperature at absolute zero. I will wait forever from your message, from the community of the dead; I will wait in your presence, a supplication of chains among chains. I am lost in empty knowledge. Names are a bother; they shudder against the pulverization of walls. Peeling, or turning away, the routers report errors; the reports never reach you, an expanding shell of packets generated by others lost in the absence of dreaming. _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:29:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i'm embarassed to see i've left out the three fine novels of ishmael reed free lance pallbearers yellow back radio broke down mumbo jumbo ann beatties work jayne anne phillips and fielding dawsons exemplary work nabokov's ada zukofsky's little chester himes pinktoes alice walker's meridian norman mailer's why are we in vietnam doctorow's we;lcome to hard times & book of daniel coover's public burning ginger man by donlevy the magic christian and candy by terry southern akbar del piombo's work ronald sukenick's work forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:39:15 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I suggested Irving Rosenthal's 1967 novel SHEEPER. >From: Maria Damon >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties >Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:11:22 -0500 > >At 4:41 PM -0800 9/8/99, Mark Salerno wrote: > >Colleagues: > > > >I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with suggestions for a course on the > >Novels of the Sixties. Of particular interest are novels that reflect, > >in form and/or content, the counter culture. The limit for this theme > >(arbitrary though it may be) is that the publication date of the book > >must fall between 1960 and 1970. > > > >Reply by backchannel. > > > >Thank you. > > > >Mark Salerno > >i'd be curious to hear folks's suggestions so if you don't mind >frontchannel, mine is Leonard Cohen's Beautiful Losers. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:32:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: Novels of the 60's Comments: cc: arshile@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Billy Little's list is quite comprehensive. Going by the "arbitrary" guidelines, tho, _On the Road_ is off-limits. Are Brits allowed? _The Magus_ and _The Collector_ , both by John Fowles, if so. I see Billy incliudes Canucks, so what were Alice Monroe and Margaret Atwood publishing in that decade? Stretching the guidelines, and back in the States, I recommend two by Gerald Rosen, _Blues for a Dying Nation_ (1972, but written and set in the 60s), and _The Carmen Miranda Memorial Flagpole_ , published in '76 but abt the death and the survival of the 60s; and v. funny. Robert Creeley's _The Island_ , 1963. Charles Potts, _Valga Crusa_ (= _Shit Crackers_ + _The Yellow Christ_ )..THE definitive novel/s of Berkeley in the 60s from the p-o-v of a drugged-up street-poet. O.P.,but possibly available from the author, now resident in Wash state. I can put you in touch w him. best, David Bromige ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:01:45 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lawrence Upton." Organization: Mainstream Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Comments: cc: Ictus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Neff Sent: 13 September 1999 18:14 | Pete, | Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the | Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, hacking | them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if their | govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This | sounds naive to the point of absurdity. All might be more peaceful if the Indonesian occupation of East Timor had not been recognised by USA and UK, "my" country, Australia and so many others; and the murderers in Indonesia might be less formidable if they had not been trained by "the West" | Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? it is too simplistic to do so. But the USA government is deeply implicated and I do not accept the arguments coming from USA or UK to explain why it is right to have bombed Iraq and Serbia, but to haver over other countries... the degree of implication would be quite enough for a citizen to be convicted of complicity in a UK or USA court | And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South | Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Why did the US government - and UK etc - support Timor being occupied? If they hadn't been occupied, within my lifetime, they wouldn't have to "secede" | I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time line | me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or Moynihan or | Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the | genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to | other large groups of people. do you mean like the use of napalm in Vietnam (or other weapons producing fire in Iraq, or Serbia) or are you thinking of a different more acceptable form of setting fire to people? do tell Lawrence Upton ------------------------------------------------ The Sub Voicive Poetry website: http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~subvoicivepoetry/ ------------------------------------------------ Lawrence Upton's website: http://members.spree.com/sip/lizard/index.htm ----------------------------------------------- RWC http://members.tripod.com/~ReadandWrite/contents.html ---------------------------------------------- | ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:14:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Manfred Obenzinger Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Comments: To: Michael Neff In-Reply-To: <37DD3102.47906467@webdelsol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Michael -- I understand that you may think that the connections between the US and East Timor are tenuous, at best, but, like many poems, there is much operating below what appears to be flat surfaces. US involvement in Indonesia -- not even counting the massacre of 1 million in the overthrow of Sukarno -- goes back to Kissinger, when Indonesia decided to annex East Timor, muting the US response and preventing the UN or anyone else from intervening, then strengthening aid to the Suharto regime. All of this flows from Cold War logic -- particularly when other newly independent Portuguese colonies such as Angola and Mozambique were displaying too much independence. East Timor was an annexation by force of a people with a different colonial history and different identity, so it is not quite the same as the examples you gave. The international community condemned the annexation, and after decades of massacres the East Timorese finally got their chance to vote for independence -- and took it. All of this exposes decades of American complicity and double standards. No, the militia thugs are not Americans -- and they are accountable -- and neither were the tonton macoutes in Haiti, but America bears much responsibility there as well. I hope this helps clarify the situation a little for you. Incidentally, isn't it about time that Kissinger was arrested for war crimes? Hilton Obenzinger ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:39:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: novel of the 60s Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" As for novels of the 60s, would suggest THE FAN MAN by William Kotzwinkle ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:45:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Cid Corman (more) -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain You might want to try contacting Drue Heinz, or the Drue Heinz Foundation. She/they have funded the $10,000 Drue Heinz Literature Prize, the Academy of American Poets' recent first-time $5,000 McLaughlin Prize, the Drue Heinz Study Center for Drawings and Prints at the National Design Center, the Drue Heinz Lectures at Pittsburgh's Three Rivers Lecture Series, the Royal Oak Foundation Lecture Series, the Drue heinz Chairman of the Department of Drawings and Prints at the Metropolitan and funding for raising the ceiling and arch of the Grand Staircase for the Metropolitan's 125th anniversary, $5,000 for the Committee to Protect Journalists' John S. and James L. Knight Foundation matching Challenge Grant, the Frank Lloyd Wright exhibition at the Carnegie Museum of Art's (yes) Heinz Architectural Center, the Pierpont Morgan Library's Drue Heinz Book Conservatorship, Oxford's Drue Heinz Professorship of American Literature and are credited with donations to the Index on Censorship and Scholars Educational Trust, the Lincoln Center Theater Review, Tables of Content II at the Carnegie (table settings exhibition: "In The Formal Birthday Dinner, the centerpiece is a 16th-century French ~plateau~ (or tray), on which the hostess has arranged a chorus of gilt candle-makers and long-stemmed flowers. Meiseen figurines, representing the continents . . ."; see http://www.clpgh.org/cmag/bk_issue/1998/janfeb/feat8.htm), >>> "Kimmelman, Burt" 09/12/99 08:08pm >>> I have just rec'd a letter from Cid Corman and his situation does indeed sound desperate - no money coming in except for charity or loans. I am taking the liberty of reproducing a small part of the the letter: "We live modestly and I prefer it so, but homelessness wont [sic] do the trick and there is that possibility - unless some real help occurs. I don't like playing the beggar. I'm not good at it. But there is no choice." Best way to get him money (it costs him $35.00 to cash a check) is to have your bank wire it to his bank: Cid Corman (account name) Account Number 095-0010328 Kyoto Shinyo Kinko Bank Omuro Branch Omuro Ukyo-ku Kyoto 616-8208 Japan (bank tel: 075/462-9670). Burt Kimmelman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:33:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: Culture and Anarchy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit culture and anarchy indeed! laughing with the following From: Alan Sondheim Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 11:46 AM Subject: Culture and Anarchy >> "You are wrong," said the Secretary, drawing his black brows together. "The knife was merely the expression of the old personal quarrel with a personal tyrant. Dynamite is not only our best tool, but our best symbol. It is as perfect a symbol of us as is incense of the prayers of the Chris- tians. It expands; it only destroys because it broadens; even so, thought only destroys because it broadens. A man's brain is a bomb," he cried out, loosening suddenly his strange passion and striking his own skull with violence. "My brain feels like a bomb, night and day. It must expand! It must expand! A man's brain must expand, if it breaks up the universe." (quotes from The Man Who was Thursday, G. K. Chesterton.) << but! : from Ducornet's *Phosphor in Dreamland* "A stinkpot!" Fogginius could be heard hollering throughout that deadly weather. "A fumigation! A holy war!" And Clay was bellowing--that his brain was boiling, boiling so fast his head could not contain it...this brain was a pig roasting in the pit of his skull-- "Roasting in its own juices!" [...] "My brain's ejaculating!" Clay was sobbing, "into God's fist!" [...] "What is architecture? Clay droned, "if it is not the brainchild of alphabet? the burial ground of animality? the alpha of exile from Eden? A tangible mathematics encrusted with the...the lime of, the lime of human pretension?" It was then that a detonation pierced their ears--a sound so fierce the reverberating wilderness stilled to silence and they saw the thug's body caroming through branches and leaves, branches and leaves...and Clay lay dead at Phosphor's feet, the top of his skull torn off. Already the wound was black with flies. [...] Fantasma, his musket smoking, stood over his strongman's corpse: "If I hear the sound of another human voice," he said, "if anyone dares speak, *I will blow out his brains too.*" * all for expansion, hassen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:55:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: hypertext suggestions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dodie--There's a quite interesting hypertext called Patchwork Girl, by Shelley Jackson, which sews together bits of Frankenstein, feminist theory, dream work, etc. Reminds me at times, actually, of Letters of Mina Harker. You can get it from Eastgate Systems for either Mac or Windows. steve ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:29:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mike, Pete, etc. - I suppose this line is perhaps my responsibility, so let me explicate some basic notions here, as quickly as I can. >Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, hacking them machetes? I think this question oversimplifies the issue. I was addressing complicity and support and motives and awareness. The Indonesians and Americans and Australians all have a share in the responsibility, and to reduce it to "fault" of one group would be irresponsible. I encouraged Pete to include the US accountability. >Did they get the machetes from America too? No, but the militias are there with US and Australian financial and military support. And it's not all machetes. I believe that your point about who is actually doing the killing is an excellent one, but sometimes people can strongly shape an environment and give orders in exchange for something. If this were not the case then perhaps humans would have never known war. >I suppose if their govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would >be peaceful? Actually, yes. The East Timorese were pretty much left alone by the Portuguese. The East Timorese were a primitive culture in the sense that they didn't have guns or television or refrigerators; they were tribal and isolated from the industrialized world. The US and Australia knew of the vast amount of wealth in the Timor Gap, but couldn't get to it, b/c that would have started a war with Portugal. When Portugal left, there was suddenly an angle that could be played. The US could not afford to deply its own troops, largely b/c of the Vietnam legacy, and also b/c they had someone, namely Suharto, who could do the dirty work for them, keeping the US squeaky clean. Besides, the US wished to prove that it was not abandoning its attempt to control SE Asia, as is reflected in several presidential memos during the time of these visits that you were referring to. The US put Suharto in power; he was a US puppet leader. Indonesia is still pretty much a US puppet today. And Australia isn't going to go against American interests, if one realistically asseses the nature of modern geopolitics. They share too many interests. >This sounds naive to the point of absurdity. It sounds like you have an a priori here that is untouchable. Your belief sounds naive to my ears. Naive, but from what perspective? "Ignorance is Strength"? "2+2=5"? >I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest >going on in Timor. It is a calculated psychotic rampage. You don't have to see it; the world will go on without your seeing it. Though it would be better if you could see it. The rampage is funded and it has a history of complicity and support. The militias are either indonesians/jakartans that have settled there, finding pay as mercenaries, or even some east timorese deeply scarred from the concentration camp environment they grew up in. Keep in mind that the killing has been much much much worse in the past than it is now; also remember that the east timorese were hereded and slaughtered like cattle so that the indonesians could settle there and erase the history of the East Timorese. It is incredible how resilient and strong the East Timorese people have proven themselves. >You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and then the slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for me? Kissinger and Scowcroft, as representatives of the NSA (though they were also cabinet members) went with Ford on several occasions to visit with Suharto. Following the first visit, Indonesia deployed mercenaries into East Timor. the last visit (Dec. 6, 1975) presaged the full fledged invasion the following day. Suahrto worked for the US government, and the connection being made here, I leave to you to make for yourself. the US media practically ignored the slaughter that followed for the next 4 years. some australian reporters made it in to report the concentration camps, the genocide, and most of those reporters were murdered. Now why would the US media ignore the slaughter? When you look at the companies invested in the exploration of the Timor Gap, their board of directors, and their advertising dollars, and the dead reporters trying to reveal the truth, you can then perhaps start to imagine why coverage starts to disappear. >Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? The US government does not support complete secession of East Timor. But, 25 years of slaughter hasn't tamed the populace. Indonesian rule isn't working, clearly. And complete East Timorese independence would be a financial disaster for Phillips 66, BHP, Chevron, Texaco, and several other large companies invested in the exploitation of the Timor Gap, which rests completely on treaties between Australia and Indonesia. And who sits on the board of directors of these companies? People from the Dep't of Defense, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Knight ridder, Time Warner, Weyerhauser, former Secretaries of State, and on and on. The solution, therefore, is US military presence. replacing one invasion (the indonesian invasion) with another. Perhaps we are going to do good and keep the peace. Most likely a new wave of rebels will disappear and these treaties will be protected or revised so that these companies will still get their share and the East timorese will get nothing but a destroyed environment and exploitation. That's capitalism. Are we compelled? I am compelled. Completely. And many other informed parties are as well. >but did we do the same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really >account for the murdering we see now? Yes, at least partially. First, it was never a matter of us just turning our backs; the US government supported it financially and with military training and intelligence. I blame the idiots running around with machetes just as much as I blame the people who set up the power relation structure in the region. Sadly, the implication of this is that there may never be a good resolution. The US will not let its investments collapse, and if the US did, political heads will roll. Money talks. I ask you, for example, if you gave a starving person a gun, a person you starved, told him that there's food at the end of the road inside someone's house, and promised him that if he went and fed himself by using that gun to get to the food then you would give him $100, who do you blame? Just blame the beggar? Just blame the deal maker? Both the dealmaker and the beggar are to blame here. But if the beggar was starved by the dealmaker in the first place, then, i think that blame is a personal decision. And that's if we just stick to blame. Why not use the past, use history and its obscured truths just to inform our present and future decisions? Like by encouraging a UN peacekeeping force without participation from the US, Australia, Britain, New Zealand? I'm not really into blame. I like to be informed and make good decisions and encourage others to do the same. I'm not for throwing anyone in jail here. I'd just like the cycle of atrocities and exploitation to stop. There's so much history that has led up to this and it is very hard to get any information on how arms are flowing, dollars are being spent, behind the scenes exchanges, etc. Some of us do our best to research what is going on, and admittedly the research is never perfect or unbiased. My bias is that western exploitation of third world nations for export crops and mineral/oil resources and/or drugs, and the deliberate provocation of politically explosive situations for the sake of increasing arms sales is intolerable. I wished that my country represented democracy and the values of freedom it claims to represent; it is clear that i can no longer naively cling to such a belief. I encourage all of you to use your search engines and research this stuff for yourself, and to trust your faculties and connections in separating the reliable information from the crap. I also encourage you to share the information about what really is happening; I can promise you NBC, The New York Times, and CNN will not. Patrick Herron pete spence wrote: > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > to:indonesia@un.int > president@whitehouse.gov > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > thanks pete spence > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > >as good > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > >chaotic > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > >else > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think they > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of the > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > >regards, > >Patrick Herron > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > >better > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > >thanks pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:53:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! In-Reply-To: <37DD3102.47906467@webdelsol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A few points: 1) Kissinger's "visit" was considerably more instrumental than the "chat-and-tea" image might otherwise conjure one to believe. It was rather, the U.S. State Department's imprimatur and guarantee of military assistance to a regime embarked on a series of "policy initiatives" which included, most notably, a) the slaughter and forced relocation of much of its own peasantry, labor leaders and movement members, intellectuals, etc., in the name of a defense against communism; and b) the invasion and annexation of Timor, resulting in a brutal occupation which left nearly a quarter of a million dead. This, while the U.S. (among others - recently, the role of Japan and Australia would also bear some scrutiny) continued (and continues, notwithstanding Clinton's half-assed "retraction of assistance") to provide the proverbial "military, technical and economic aid" to the Indonesian regime. This isn't a matter of having bought arms years ago, but one of receiving - until this week, and that only if Clinton's retraction is to taken at face value - ongoing direct support from the U.S. and other armaments-producing nations. Thus, while the machetes might be a domestic industry in Indonesia, the rifles, troop transport vehicles, paramilitary training, etc., most certainly are not. This aid has been continued under recent administrations with the rationalization that it's the Indonesian military itself that can be counted on to bring the militias back into line. For the sheer ridiculousness of this claim, if one still needs it substantiated, one might turn to Alan Nairn's recent reports on Pacifica Radio, detailing the intimate relationship between the army and the militias. But other sources are many and well-documented. If you have web access, you might take a look at the East Timor Action Network's web site: www.etan.org 2) The above would seem to have some bearing on your assertion that East Timor is attempting to "secede" from a legitimate national government - which is simply not the case. East Timor, as an Indonesian territory, is the result of a forcible annexation sponsored by U.S. and other interests. Many of the key figures in the initial "sponsorship" remain in positions of power today. In other words, this is about as far from a quixotic attempt to rectify a distant and tragic "other-people's" history as you can get. 3) You ask: "We turned the other way on Savac we see now (sp?) in Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the murdering we see now?" Yes. Absolutely. As I've pointed out, this isn't simply a case of turning the other way, but a direct outgrowth of deliberate policies of military and economic support pursued by the U.S., Japan and other militarized nations. And although the point has now been reached at which the killings more than likely cannot be stopped without some sort of direct intervention, the extreme probability was, until quite recently, that the Indonesian regime simply could not have pursued its policies of aggression without the direct support of the U.S. and its allies - that, in other words, the annexation itself would have been unfeasible and unsustainable without that aid. Until very recently, a cut-off of such support might have sufficed to avert the campaign of terror now being pursued. There is no "genocidal gene" - and such pseudo-explanations ("they're just nuts _over there_, who can understand their motivations?"), I'd warrant, most often mark the site of a real and determinate chain of events, the complicity of one's own nation in which is precisely what the resort to racialized typologies attempts to obscure. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Neff Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 10:15 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Pete, Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this line of accusation. I need to be clear. Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, hacking them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if their govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This sounds naive to the point of absurdity. I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and then the slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for me? I don't see it from what you are saying. Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those who believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck their barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we send overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac (sp?) in Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the murdering we see now? I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time line me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or Moynihan or Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to other large groups of people. Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. Mike pete spence wrote: > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > to:indonesia@un.int > president@whitehouse.gov > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > thanks pete spence > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > >as good > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > >chaotic > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > >else > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think they > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of the > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > >regards, > >Patrick Herron > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > >better > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > >thanks pete spence > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:32:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! In-Reply-To: <37DD3102.47906467@webdelsol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We didn't "cause" it, but we've certainly been an enabling factor: we have registered little complaint when East Timor was annexed and its people slaughtered (some 200,000) of them over the years, ditto the situation in Irian Jaya, ditto the slaughter of ethnic Chinese. Instead, we have consistently stroked the Indonesian govt for being anticommunist, and that stroking has taken the form of ytraining and supplying their military, contributing greatly to its ability to overwhelm the rest of govt. At 01:14 PM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >Pete, > >Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this line of >accusation. I need to be clear. > >Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the >Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, hacking >them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if their >govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This >sounds naive to the point of absurdity. > >I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest >going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and then the >slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for >me? I don't see it from what you are saying. > >Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those who >believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck their >barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. > >And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South >Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we send >overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the >diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac (sp?) in >Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the >same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the murdering >we see now? > >I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time line >me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or Moynihan or >Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the >genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to >other large groups of people. > >Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. > >Mike > > >pete spence wrote: > >> please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest >> to:indonesia@un.int >> president@whitehouse.gov >> a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au >> thanks pete spence >> >> speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just >> >as good >> >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in >> >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American >> >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and >> >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous >> >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the >> >chaotic >> >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential >> >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the >> >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone >> >else >> >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by >> >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian >> >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military >> >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original >> >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking >> >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain >> >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think they >> >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of the >> >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. >> > >> >http://www.freetimor.com/ >> > >> >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html >> > >> >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ >> > >> >http://www.etan.org/ >> > >> >regards, >> >Patrick Herron >> > >> > >> >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the >> >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a >> >better >> >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int >> > >> >thanks pete spence >> > >> >______________________________________________________ >> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > >> >______________________________________________________ >> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >-- > > > > >================================ >Web Del Sol >http://webdelsol.com >LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:12:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Snail Mails Needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone has earth addresses for the following people, I'd appreciate it. Backchannel, please: Juliana Spahr Eliot Weinberger Sheila Murphy Gil Ott Rachel Blau DuPlessis Dan Featherston Cydney Chadwick Tony Green Bill Luoma Marjorie Perloff Kent Johnson Anthony Lawrence Joe Amato AH Bramhall Laura Moriarty Forrest Gander ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:51:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Re: Novels of the 60's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Has no one mentioned Pynchon's _Crying of Lot 49_? Ah, for the vale of San Narciso and the halycon tunes of The Paranoids. Patrick Pritchett ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:03:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Yes, indeed. Please see the latest issue of The Nation for more on current US involvement in Indonesia: http://www.thenation.com/ US COMPLICITY IN EAST TIMOR Although the US government has reprimanded Indonesia for the militias' campaign of terror in East Timor, the US military has, behind the scenes and contrary to Congressional intent, been backing the Indonesian Army. Allan Nairn filed this first-hand report from Dili, East Timor Patrick Pritchett ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:05:27 -0400 Reply-To: mjk@acsu.buffalo.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Subject: [Fwd: untitled or magazine 3] Comments: To: UB Core Poetics Poetics Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Michelle H. Citrin" wrote: > ------------ > > _untitled or magazine_ is happy or pleased to announce the publication > > of its 3rd issue, featuring poems by > > Tim McPeek > Jen Russo > Natasha Dwyer > Mike Kelleher > Loren Goodman > Aaron Armstrong Skomra > Michelle Citrin > Ben Friedlander > > Orange corrugated cardboard cover. They are 5 dollars plus one dollar to > cover postage. Send check (payable to Michelle Citrin) to: > > untitled or magazine/press > 169 So. Union St. #4 > Burlington, VT 05401 > > --Michelle Citrin and Aaron Armstrong Skomra > untitledor@netscape.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:58:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kali Tal Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! In-Reply-To: <37DD3102.47906467@webdelsol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Mike, Sounds like you're cutting flame-bait to me. To support your viewpoint you'd have to argue that the US habit of providing financial and military support to dictatorial governments in the Third World (as long as they are willing to support our economic interests) has no bearing on our moral or ethical responsibilities in those regions. From what you say, it shouldn't matter that in country after country we are willing to prop up unpopular regimes (and occasionally invent and install them) to serve our economic and political interests despite popular resistance to externally imposed structures of authority. Asking Pete to "educate" you on this topic is sidestepping your own responsibility to defend your position of non-involvement. He provided you with URLS--I have no doubt that you're educated enough to read them, come to your own conclusions and then "educate" *Peter* if you so choose. I haven't posted to POETICS in ages because the level of discourse here usually winds up pissing me off if I get involved, despite the fact that I'm a publisher of poetry and that really this *ought* to be a place I'm comfortable hanging out. When somebody on POETICS posts something that somebody else doesn't like (particularly on political grounds) the common tactic on this list is to snidely and sarcastically attack the intelligence of the poster, and rarely ever to directly engage their political arguments. I like political arguments and I think they're related to poetry. What I don't like is the very nasty tone of intellectual and moral superiority wielded by some (usually more conservative) members to silence others here. It takes more work to make your own argument, Peter, than to sneer at someone else's argument. Receding into silence once again, Kali ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:22:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Perhaps only when someone bursts the bubble of the New Model Poetics Army do we get down to actually conversing with each other. My guess is, it's less likely that Mike Neff doubts the complicity of the US in evil deeds than that he found the assumption of privilege regarding "the real story" to be unwarranted. I guess it's too much to ask of the medium that we not post initially in haste. But it's heartening to see this thread become an exchange not a flame war. Brian Lennon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:55:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Marsh Subject: Re: hypertext suggestions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dodie: To add to what others have offered... The Brown site put together by Landow and students http://landow.stg.brown.edu/cpace/ht/htov.html or http://landow.stg.brown.edu/cpace/cspaceov.html his book _Hyper/Text/Theory_ is good for beginning work "Meditations on First Cybersophy" is an example from the Brown website suggesting possibilities for critical work in the HT format http://landow.stg.brown.edu/cpace/theory/pena/index2.html "The Interactive Story" http://ma.hrc.wmin.ac.uk/ma.theory.3.2.1.db Joyce's "Twelve Blue" is available on-line http://www.eastgate.com/TwelveBlue/ (good for an introduction, though i agree with Taylor there's probs with Eastgate) other sites that might appeal: Building Babel http://www.peg.apc.org/~spinifex/babelbuildingsite.html Lies http://www.users.interport.net/~rick/lies/lies.htm i also like to send students to a brief article i found on Ramelli's "Reading Wheel," a prototype hypertext machine designed in the 16h c. http://www.mindspring.com/~jntolva/ramelli.html hope these help, bill > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Dodie Bellamy > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:18 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: hypertext suggestions > > > Hi, I have an independent study student who is going to do a > hypertext horror piece. I have no problem helping her with the > horror end of the project, but also want to suggest some good > hypertext pieces and/or theories. I'm sending her the urls of a > couple things that have caught my eye, but does anyone have any > suggestions of some cut-above hypertext links? Or even > books/articles on hypertext? > > Thanks. > > Dodie > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:09:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: novel of the 60s Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tried to respond to Mark directly but didn't get through for some reason -- DON'T overlook William Melvin Kelley's 1962 novel _A Different Drummer_ -- a major work and an unusual point of view ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:05:39 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Does anyone know specifics re: the role of Indonesian General Wiranto in the recent events unfolding in East Timor? Wiranto, among those who "got" the message the West was "sending" (ie its nervousness over the Asian economic situation), was apparently the man who gently suggested through mutual friends that Suharto step down in May 98. What role does the army play in Indonesian internal politics? Is it as in Turkey, to "guarantee" the continuity of a secular state in a highly religious society? I woldn't put it past Wiranto to be using this ploy as a cloak for some heavy business glad-handing with anyone who comes down the pike, not just the Americans & UK or the West in general, but anyone willing to play his own essentially powerless hand in Wiranto's game. There's no reason for him to have political ambitions, since he's already at the top of the heap (yet hiding beneath its statistics). Somebody's making a pile of money on the piles of bodies, but the question remains, who is it? & specifically how are they doing it? Weapons trade, sure, but ... protection money protects just what, exactly? Talk abt Investigative Poetry - this isn't just a job for Ed Sanders or Superman, but for everyone, like, go figure, who's who and why they ACT that way behind the scenes while up front the explanations and solutions are as sweet as the ring of your old time Burroughs cash register to the ear of Pavlov's Dog. >From: Hilton Manfred Obenzinger >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:14:12 -0700 > >Michael -- > >I understand that you may think that the connections between the US and >East Timor are tenuous, at best, but, like many poems, there is much >operating below what appears to be flat surfaces. US involvement in >Indonesia -- not even counting the massacre of 1 million in the overthrow >of Sukarno -- goes back to Kissinger, when Indonesia decided to annex East >Timor, muting the US response and preventing the UN or anyone else from >intervening, then strengthening aid to the Suharto regime. All of this >flows from Cold War logic -- particularly when other newly independent >Portuguese colonies such as Angola and Mozambique were displaying too >much independence. East Timor was an annexation by force of a people with >a different colonial history and different identity, so it is not quite >the same as the examples you gave. The international community condemned >the annexation, and after decades of massacres the East Timorese finally >got their chance to vote for independence -- and took it. All of this >exposes decades of American complicity and double standards. No, the >militia thugs are not Americans -- and they are accountable -- and neither >were the tonton macoutes in Haiti, but America bears much responsibility >there as well. I hope this helps clarify the situation a little for you. > >Incidentally, isn't it about time that Kissinger was arrested for war >crimes? > >Hilton Obenzinger ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:24:48 PDT Reply-To: gaufred@leland.stanford.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: Novels of the 60's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks to whoever mentioned Kotzwinkle's _Fan Man_ (though I thought that was '70s)--I read it years ago, and laughed till I cried. Had forgotten all about it. Didn't he write _E.T._? Weird. Don't know if someone else has already mentioned it, but in terms of popular longevity alone (not to mention its elevation of sentimentality and anti-intellectualism to a truly sublime level), Daniel Keyes' _Flowers for Algernon_ is essential. I also like Updike's _Rabbit, Run_ and (maybe even more) _Rabbit Redux_ (is that still 60's?). I'm betting nobody else nominated those. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:58:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: M.B. Tolson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" There is finally an edition in paperback of Melvin Tolson's poems, or at least most of them. Just out from University of Virginia Press is "Harlem Gallery" and Other Poems of Melvin B. Tolson. The book includes the three volumes that were published during Tolson's life, along with a few magazine pieces that had not been collected, including the crucial "E. & O. E." which appeared in Poetry in 1951. The new edition includes Tolson's notes to Libretto for the Republic of Liberia and new annotations to Harlem Gallery, provided by the editor, Raymond Nelson. What is not included are the earlier poems that appeared a few years ago as A Gallery of Harlem Portraits and some fugitive poems. There will be two previously unpublished Tolson poems in an anthology that I am editing with Lauri Ramey that Alabama will publish soon. If you've never read Tolson, get this book now. And I hope all of you who've been asking for years why his books are out of print will now adopt this book for your courses. Watch this space for future news of a selected Tolson writings that will collect an interesting sampling of his prose work. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:02:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: instress.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.instress.com contains: A catalog of chapbooks & Inscape Magazine Windhover, an on-line journal of poetry Spencer Selby's List of Magazines (with Links) New American Writing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not an expert on East Timor/Indonesian politics and don't claim to be. I am commenting specifically on attempts to directly link the US govt (parties, individuals, policies, some combo thereof) and specific actions or inactions on its part to these current manifestations of acute human barbarism. At worst/best then, we are "enabling" to some degree that cannot be measured. However, can one state for certainty that US "involvement" was *necessary* to provoke the killing fields in this case? In other words, must the US be a factor in enabling socio-psychotic behavior (documented throughout history beginning with the Assyrians most notably?) or can it take place independent of the US? And if we admit it can take place independent of the US, or has taken place independent of the US, or will take place independent of the US, can we state with certainty that this particular plague demands US "enabling" behavior? Or could it have happened anyway? Are there forces, cultures, history, hatreds inherent to the land there that play a factor? That might even dwarf or render any US enabling inconsequential? Back to my point about the machetes. These were not funded by the US govt. Arms or not, they have enough arms left to kill. As far as these other tragic situations around the globe, are we responsible, enabling all those too, perhaps because we cannot play our role as global policeman too well? I'm perplexed. Perhaps this is exactly why we shouldn't be global policemen. Too much blame, too easy to fault? Mark Weiss wrote: > We didn't "cause" it, but we've certainly been an enabling factor: we have > registered little complaint when East Timor was annexed and its people > slaughtered (some 200,000) of them over the years, ditto the situation in > Irian Jaya, ditto the slaughter of ethnic Chinese. Instead, we have > consistently stroked the Indonesian govt for being anticommunist, and that > stroking has taken the form of ytraining and supplying their military, > contributing greatly to its ability to overwhelm the rest of govt. > > At 01:14 PM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Pete, > > > >Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this > line of > >accusation. I need to be clear. > > > >Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the > >Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, > hacking > >them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if > their > >govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This > >sounds naive to the point of absurdity. > > > >I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest > >going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and > then the > >slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for > >me? I don't see it from what you are saying. > > > >Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those who > >believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck > their > >barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. > > > >And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South > >Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we send > >overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the > >diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac > (sp?) in > >Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do > the > >same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the > murdering > >we see now? > > > >I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time > line > >me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or > Moynihan or > >Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the > >genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to > >other large groups of people. > > > >Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. > > > >Mike > > > > > >pete spence wrote: > > > >> please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > >> to:indonesia@un.int > >> president@whitehouse.gov > >> a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > >> thanks pete spence > >> > >> speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > >> >as good > >> >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing > role in > >> >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > >> >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and > >> >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > >> >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > >> >chaotic > >> >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > >> >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > >> >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > >> >else > >> >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by > >> >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > >> >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > >> >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > >> >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > >> >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain > >> >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think they > >> >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of the > >> >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > >> > > >> >http://www.freetimor.com/ > >> > > >> >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > >> > > >> >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > >> > > >> >http://www.etan.org/ > >> > > >> >regards, > >> >Patrick Herron > >> > > >> > > >> >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > >> >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > >> >better > >> >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > >> > > >> >thanks pete spence > >> > > >> >______________________________________________________ > >> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >> > > >> >______________________________________________________ > >> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >> > >> ______________________________________________________ > >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >-- > > > > > > > > > >================================ > >Web Del Sol > >http://webdelsol.com > >LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW > > > > -- ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:45:52 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: [Fwd: Re: reading] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6E5A70524B6D" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6E5A70524B6D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Celebratory Reading from OVERTIME: SELECTED POEMS BY PHILIP WHALEN (Penguin > Putnam, Inc.) with guest readers Amy Gerstler, Lewis MacAdams,John Thomas, > Philomene Long, Michael Rothenberg, Todd Baron, Michael Price, Peter Levitt, > Phoebe MacAdams and Kevin Opstedal. Saturday, September 18, 7:30-9:30 PM at > Beyond Baroque Literary Arts Center, 681 Venice Blvd. Venice, CA (one half > mile west of Lincoln Blvd). $7 Admission. For more information call: > 310/822-3006. > > Michael Rothenberg > walterblue@bigbridge.org > http://www.bigbridge.org > --------------6E5A70524B6D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from michael (pool0153.cvx19-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.244.153]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06817 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002f01befeb4$0a6df7e0$99f4b3d1@michael> From: "Michael Rothenberg" To: References: <3.0.2.32.19990126173236.00693a14@pop.sirius.com> <37DE88A9.79F6@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: reading Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:21:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Todd, I've spoken with Dewey five times since he has been on vacation and he keeps saying he's doing something. It really grinds me. I have been at the hospital with Philip everyday almost for the last two weeks and trying to get this together, printed a program, contacted everyone, gonna drive to LA, renting hotel rooms and all this stuff and it does give me heartache. Of course, if you're having a baby, conratulations, that does not fall into the same category of things, and you can post me by e-mail, I'll bring my laptop with me. Below is the information. I thought I sent it to you. I've send press information to the magazines. Also, the announcement of the event has been on the Big Bridge home page for the last four months minus Philomene Long and John Thomas. Well, I guess I just go with it because it will do me no good to get anymore stressed or tired about it. Keep me posted on the good things going on for you this week. Best, MR Celebratory Reading from OVERTIME: SELECTED POEMS BY PHILIP WHALEN (Penguin Putnam, Inc.) with guest readers Amy Gerstler, Lewis MacAdams,John Thomas, Philomene Long, Michael Rothenberg, Todd Baron, Michael Price, Peter Levitt, Phoebe MacAdams and Kevin Opstedal. Saturday, September 18, 7:30-9:30 PM at Beyond Baroque Literary Arts Center, 681 Venice Blvd. Venice, CA (one half mile west of Lincoln Blvd). $7 Admission. For more information call: 310/822-3006. Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org http://www.bigbridge.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers To: Michael Rothenberg Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 1:40 PM Subject: reading > dear M: > > I'm wondering what time the reading is. I've gotten no computer type e > mail type hype hype! Sorry to say BB hasn't done a word of gettin it > out--not even their new calendar--and so--I don't kow who'll be > there--and what time is it? is it friday or saturday of this week? > > and--the last thing is that I believe I told you my wife I were > expectin' a baby? Well, If we're in hospital--as this week is the due > date--I will have to bow out. Having no local phone number or such for > you--I will leave a mesage at b. b. if that happens. > > hope this all doesn't give you a heartache. > > Todd Baron > --------------6E5A70524B6D-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:44:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't doubt what you are saying about Kissinger, policies, support, yadda yadda. This isn't my point. We're off track. My comments were directed to this statement by Peter Spence: "It may also be just as good and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese." The words "ongoing role in the slaughter and oppression" makes me think that like Nazis in the Ukraine, we are there with a policy which places active operatives in the field who are promoting and directing hacking gangs, resident psychos, and Indonesian army units to slaughters, rapine, burnings, church massacres, etc. etc. etc. US doesn't have to grant imprimatur to any dictator to begin slaughter, forced relocations, tortures, etc. This kind of thing happens all the time and is happening in other places and climes without imprimaturs. The dictator, the state is imprimatur in of itself and always has been, an arrogance which breeds intolerance at best and secret police mechanisms at worst. Such bodies and culture require no Madeline Albright, Kissinger, Ford, or whoever to lend them authority to oppress. But here is a statement I wish to challenge: "... a direct outgrowth of deliberate policies of military and economic support pursued by the U.S., Japan and other militarized nations. And although the point has now been reached at which the killings more than likely cannot be stopped without some sort of direct intervention, the extreme probability was, until quite recently, that the Indonesian regime simply could not have pursued its policies of aggression without the direct support of the U.S. and its allies - that, in other words, the annexation itself would have been unfeasible and unsustainable without that aid." Now, wait a minute. Let's reality check. What we're talking about is a relatively unsophisticated third world military apparatus (not a crack group like Hitler's SS divisions, Iraq's Guards--an outgrowth of the Ten Thousand Immortals; or US Seals, etc.) and some machete wielding, body gutting thugs of a paramilitary nature common under many conditions, who are in unison attacking a virtually defenseless populace. Is that not so? Are they facing a line of troops who are harrying their flanks, threatening their lines, an army or resisting force which makes "simply could not have pursued" without US/Japan/etc help and a priori statement? It looks to me like forced takeover requires only a savage will to see it through, not smart bombs. It's happened many times before, and will again. Taylor Brady wrote: > A few points: > > 1) Kissinger's "visit" was considerably more instrumental than the > "chat-and-tea" image might otherwise conjure one to believe. It was rather, > the U.S. State Department's imprimatur and guarantee of military assistance > to a regime embarked on a series of "policy initiatives" which included, > most notably, a) the slaughter and forced relocation of much of its own > peasantry, labor leaders and movement members, intellectuals, etc., in the > name of a defense against communism; and b) the invasion and annexation of > Timor, resulting in a brutal occupation which left nearly a quarter of a > million dead. This, while the U.S. (among others - recently, the role of > Japan and Australia would also bear some scrutiny) continued (and continues, > notwithstanding Clinton's half-assed "retraction of assistance") to provide > the proverbial "military, technical and economic aid" to the Indonesian > regime. This isn't a matter of having bought arms years ago, but one of > receiving - until this week, and that only if Clinton's retraction is to > taken at face value - ongoing direct support from the U.S. and other > armaments-producing nations. Thus, while the machetes might be a domestic > industry in Indonesia, the rifles, troop transport vehicles, paramilitary > training, etc., most certainly are not. This aid has been continued under > recent administrations with the rationalization that it's the Indonesian > military itself that can be counted on to bring the militias back into line. > For the sheer ridiculousness of this claim, if one still needs it > substantiated, one might turn to Alan Nairn's recent reports on Pacifica > Radio, detailing the intimate relationship between the army and the > militias. But other sources are many and well-documented. If you have web > access, you might take a look at the East Timor Action Network's web site: > www.etan.org > 2) The above would seem to have some bearing on your assertion that East > Timor is attempting to "secede" from a legitimate national government - > which is simply not the case. East Timor, as an Indonesian territory, is the > result of a forcible annexation sponsored by U.S. and other interests. Many > of the key figures in the initial "sponsorship" remain in positions of power > today. In other words, this is about as far from a quixotic attempt to > rectify a distant and tragic "other-people's" history as you can get. > 3) You ask: "We turned the other way on Savac we see now (sp?) in Iran, > though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the > same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the > murdering we see now?" Yes. Absolutely. As I've pointed out, this isn't > simply a case of turning the other way, but a direct outgrowth of deliberate > policies of military and economic support pursued by the U.S., Japan and > other militarized nations. And although the point has now been reached at > which the killings more than likely cannot be stopped without some sort of > direct intervention, the extreme probability was, until quite recently, that > the Indonesian regime simply could not have pursued its policies of > aggression without the direct support of the U.S. and its allies - that, in > other words, the annexation itself would have been unfeasible and > unsustainable without that aid. Until very recently, a cut-off of such > support might have sufficed to avert the campaign of terror now being > pursued. There is no "genocidal gene" - and such pseudo-explanations > ("they're just nuts _over there_, who can understand their motivations?"), > I'd warrant, most often mark the site of a real and determinate chain of > events, the complicity of one's own nation in which is precisely what the > resort to racialized typologies attempts to obscure. > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Michael Neff > Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 10:15 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > > Pete, > > Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this > line of > accusation. I need to be clear. > > Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the > Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, > hacking > them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if > their > govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This > sounds naive to the point of absurdity. > > I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest > going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and then > the > slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for > me? I don't see it from what you are saying. > > Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those > who > believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck > their > barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. > > And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South > Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we send > overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the > diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac > (sp?) in > Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do > the > same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the > murdering > we see now? > > I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time > line > me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or > Moynihan or > Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the > genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to > other large groups of people. > > Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. > > Mike > > pete spence wrote: > > > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > > to:indonesia@un.int > > president@whitehouse.gov > > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > > thanks pete spence > > > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > > >as good > > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role > in > > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and > > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > > >chaotic > > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > > >else > > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by > > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain > > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think > they > > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of > the > > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > > > >regards, > > >Patrick Herron > > > > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > > >better > > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > > > >thanks pete spence > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > -- > > ================================ > Web Del Sol > http://webdelsol.com > LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW -- ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:10:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: more unimportant matter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That Speck There reasonable radicalism resists the saturation point. bringing with this item another fanatical reference work known to explode out of all proportion to dullards. the sense of excuse will be fried on your next trip into town. when you say "there is no town" it fills me gravely with antsiness. like, how can voiceover prove my worth? I got together with mainlines forever, without refusing to water the dog. now it's on other terms, the sort that render fat like an idea. I have no idea personally, but seem to sing in the shower. when done there is no history to fall back on, just bathmats and the like. and that's so telling, a full spectrum poetry that believes the communal grope has much to do with issues of darkness. lights are for losers, so ordinary. the tribe lives tribal because definitions last. yes, anything defined will remain so until redefined. that's my awning, where do you keep yours? I ask rhetorically since what purpose would there be to remember anything, dreams included? to assert a factual basis for every your declaration simply masks the boundaries with dressy new ones. meanwhile the reference point goes walkabout. so why get tired, why give up? the throng has my watch, or watches me, or what is a thatched hut nowadays? my sermon, my sense, and heaven prove reliant ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:57:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Patrick, I'm not going to debate your very thorough knowledge of this region of the earth and your considerable insight into the secret workings of the US Govt, Chevron, NBC news, etc. etc and their various and ongoing collusions. I've heard formula explanations of various oil company/media/govt conspiracies being responsible for all sorts of behavioral phenomena, just as I have heard individuals far less erudite than yourself claim space aliens are responsible for a wide range of other phenomena. I myself grew up believing that the govt/media covered up Bermuda Triangle truths, etc. I'm not saying this matter is in the same league, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying I'm hearing some familiar themes here. I'll tell you emphatically that I do *not* get my news from CNN, NBC, etc. During the Kosovo crisis, e.g., I watched far more interesting French coverage (they even interviewed a British officer). But I'll reestablish the context, make a few points, and then let it go. First, and again, I have been hearing oil company/USGovt/etc theories to explain a wide spectrum of antisocial behaviors around the earth and I don't always buy it, and I'm not totally buying it now, IN THE CONTEXT OF the homicidal group behavior there. And that is my point exactly. Occam's Razor, the Japan/US/NBC/Chevron formal or informal infrastructure of conspiracy is not necessary to explain the rampaging militia and military. This is not to say components of these nebulous groups (like clouds, they dissolve the closer you look) are not involved in Indonesia to various degrees, they are, of course! Who can deny that? And they are involved in ways you enlighten us to. Second, I become suspicious when explanations of group/national/tribe behaviors, esp pronounced psychotic ones on such a grand and incredibly savage scale, don't include local culture, socio-psych, or other factors to account for them. Surely, there is a synergy here, a harmonious convergence of psychotic gravities which should be noted and divulged. This harping on the US, oil companies, Japan, macro international political models, etc. don't serve to explain the killer hysteria and frenzy. This is what I am getting at. Believe me Patrick, the US Govt is far, far more stupid than malevolent. It requires planning and skill to be intentionally malevolent. Lets look at a few quotes here: "The Indonesians and Americans and Australians all have a share in the responsibility, and to reduce it to "fault" of one group would be irresponsible. I encouraged Pete to include the US accountability." I say it goes far deeper than this. These models of yours are insufficient to explain the group behavior. "The East Timorese were pretty much left alone by the Portuguese." That's a shocker. Why didn't the Portugese turn them into slaves like they did so many others? "The East Timorese were a primitive culture in the sense that they didn't have guns or television or refrigerators; they were tribal and isolated from the industrialized world." Then no wonder the US had to throw so much gun money to Indonesia. "The US and Australia knew of the vast amount of wealth in the Timor Gap, but couldn't get to it, b/c that would have started a war with Portugal." Yes, war with Portugal would have been disastrous, like the mouse who roared. Hell, Portugal is poor, why didn't we just bribe them like everyone else? Surely Chevron had enough moolah. "The US put Suharto in power; he was a US puppet leader." As in Vietnam, "puppet" leaders often become less so when they realize they are regarded as puppet leaders. Open the history books. The so called puppet status is always exaggerated. Strings can and are broken. " Indonesia is still pretty much a US puppet today. And Australia isn't going to go against American interests, if one realistically asseses the nature of modern geopolitics. They share too many interests." Australia has gone against US interests in the region plenty of times. I'm not buying that argument. "It is a calculated psychotic rampage. You don't have to see it; the world will go on without your seeing it. Though it would be better if you could see it. The rampage is funded and it has a history of complicity and support. The militias are either indonesians/jakartans that have settled there, finding pay as mercenaries, or even some east timorese deeply scarred from the concentration camp environment they grew up in. Keep in mind that the killing has been much much much worse in the past than it is now;" Yes, of course it is calculated. I do see it. The world goes on anyway. You're touching on the local politics now, setting the scene, a scene which requires no US govt to ignite the killings. "Kissinger and Scowcroft, as representatives of the NSA (though they were also cabinet members) went with Ford on several occasions to visit with Suharto. Following the first visit, Indonesia deployed mercenaries into East Timor. the last visit (Dec. 6, 1975) presaged the full fledged invasion the following day." I'm going to stop here. I don't know that these two were "representatives" of the NSA. What do you mean by representatives? You mean operatives, don't you? How could the NSA select "representatives" in the common sense of the word? I'm not buying that. I thought NSA was subject to guys like Kissinger, not the other way around. But that must be my naivety again. So what you are implying is that the NSA sanctioned the invasion of Timor, planned it, carried it off for the sake of ... Chevron? For black gold of course. Why else do nations play dirty. Well, why did such a high profile visit have to take place for all to see? Why didn't the NSA just pick up the phone and say go get 'em, or Chevron for that matter? Kissinger had to give his facetoface blessing, I suppose? "I wished that my country represented democracy and the values of freedom it claims to represent; it is clear that i can no longer naively cling to such a belief." I don't believe that either Patrick, I just think your explanations are formula in some respects and inadequate to explain the condition of group killing psychosis. Patrick Herron wrote: > Mike, Pete, etc. - I suppose this line is perhaps my responsibility, so let > me explicate some basic notions here, as quickly as I can. > > >Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the > Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, > hacking them machetes? > > I think this question oversimplifies the issue. I was addressing complicity > and support and motives and awareness. The Indonesians and Americans and > Australians all have a share in the responsibility, and to reduce it to > "fault" of one group would be irresponsible. I encouraged Pete to include > the US accountability. > > >Did they get the machetes from America too? > > No, but the militias are there with US and Australian financial and military > support. And it's not all machetes. I believe that your point about who is > actually doing the killing is an excellent one, but sometimes people can > strongly shape an environment and give orders in exchange for something. If > this were not the case then perhaps humans would have never known war. > > >I suppose if their govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would > >be peaceful? > > Actually, yes. The East Timorese were pretty much left alone by the > Portuguese. The East Timorese were a primitive culture in the sense that > they didn't have guns or television or refrigerators; they were tribal and > isolated from the industrialized world. The US and Australia knew of the > vast amount of wealth in the Timor Gap, but couldn't get to it, b/c that > would have started a war with Portugal. When Portugal left, there was > suddenly an angle that could be played. The US could not afford to deply > its own troops, largely b/c of the Vietnam legacy, and also b/c they had > someone, namely Suharto, who could do the dirty work for them, keeping the > US squeaky clean. Besides, the US wished to prove that it was not > abandoning its attempt to control SE Asia, as is reflected in several > presidential memos during the time of these visits that you were referring > to. > > The US put Suharto in power; he was a US puppet leader. Indonesia is still > pretty much a US puppet today. And Australia isn't going to go against > American interests, if one realistically asseses the nature of modern > geopolitics. They share too many interests. > > >This > sounds naive to the point of absurdity. > > It sounds like you have an a priori here that is untouchable. Your belief > sounds naive to my ears. Naive, but from what perspective? "Ignorance is > Strength"? "2+2=5"? > > >I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest > >going on in Timor. > > It is a calculated psychotic rampage. You don't have to see it; the world > will go on without your seeing it. Though it would be better if you could > see it. The rampage is funded and it has a history of complicity and > support. The militias are either indonesians/jakartans that have settled > there, finding pay as mercenaries, or even some east timorese deeply scarred > from the concentration camp environment they grew up in. Keep in mind that > the killing has been much much much worse in the past than it is now; also > remember that the east timorese were hereded and slaughtered like cattle so > that the indonesians could settle there and erase the history of the East > Timorese. It is incredible how resilient and strong the East Timorese > people have proven themselves. > > >You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and then the > slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for > me? > > Kissinger and Scowcroft, as representatives of the NSA (though they were > also cabinet members) went with Ford on several occasions to visit with > Suharto. Following the first visit, Indonesia deployed mercenaries into > East Timor. the last visit (Dec. 6, 1975) presaged the full fledged > invasion the following day. Suahrto worked for the US government, and the > connection being made here, I leave to you to make for yourself. the US > media practically ignored the slaughter that followed for the next 4 years. > some australian reporters made it in to report the concentration camps, the > genocide, and most of those reporters were murdered. Now why would the US > media ignore the slaughter? When you look at the companies invested in the > exploration of the Timor Gap, their board of directors, and their > advertising dollars, and the dead reporters trying to reveal the truth, you > can then perhaps start to imagine why coverage starts to disappear. > > >Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? > And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South > Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? > > The US government does not support complete secession of East Timor. But, > 25 years of slaughter hasn't tamed the populace. Indonesian rule isn't > working, clearly. And complete East Timorese independence would be a > financial disaster for Phillips 66, BHP, Chevron, Texaco, and several other > large companies invested in the exploitation of the Timor Gap, which rests > completely on treaties between Australia and Indonesia. And who sits on the > board of directors of these companies? People from the Dep't of Defense, > Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Knight ridder, Time Warner, Weyerhauser, former > Secretaries of State, and on and on. The solution, therefore, is US > military presence. replacing one invasion (the indonesian invasion) with > another. Perhaps we are going to do good and keep the peace. Most likely a > new wave of rebels will disappear and these treaties will be protected or > revised so that these companies will still get their share and the East > timorese will get nothing but a destroyed environment and exploitation. > That's capitalism. > > Are we compelled? I am compelled. Completely. And many other informed > parties are as well. > > >but did we do the same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really > >account for the murdering we see now? > > Yes, at least partially. First, it was never a matter of us just turning > our backs; the US government supported it financially and with military > training and intelligence. I blame the idiots running around with machetes > just as much as I blame the people who set up the power relation structure > in the region. Sadly, the implication of this is that there may never be a > good resolution. The US will not let its investments collapse, and if the > US did, political heads will roll. Money talks. > > I ask you, for example, if you gave a starving person a gun, a person you > starved, told him that there's food at the end of the road inside someone's > house, and promised him that if he went and fed himself by using that gun to > get to the food then you would give him $100, who do you blame? Just blame > the beggar? Just blame the deal maker? Both the dealmaker and the beggar > are to blame here. But if the beggar was starved by the dealmaker in the > first place, then, i think that blame is a personal decision. > > And that's if we just stick to blame. Why not use the past, use history and > its obscured truths just to inform our present and future decisions? Like > by encouraging a UN peacekeeping force without participation from the US, > Australia, Britain, New Zealand? I'm not really into blame. I like to be > informed and make good decisions and encourage others to do the same. I'm > not for throwing anyone in jail here. I'd just like the cycle of atrocities > and exploitation to stop. > > There's so much history that has led up to this and it is very hard to get > any information on how arms are flowing, dollars are being spent, behind the > scenes exchanges, etc. Some of us do our best to research what is going on, > and admittedly the research is never perfect or unbiased. My bias is that > western exploitation of third world nations for export crops and mineral/oil > resources and/or drugs, and the deliberate provocation of politically > explosive situations for the sake of increasing arms sales is intolerable. > I wished that my country represented democracy and the values of freedom it > claims to represent; it is clear that i can no longer naively cling to such > a belief. > > I encourage all of you to use your search engines and research this stuff > for yourself, and to trust your faculties and connections in separating the > reliable information from the crap. I also encourage you to share the > information about what really is happening; I can promise you NBC, The New > York Times, and CNN will not. > > Patrick Herron > > pete spence wrote: > > > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > > to:indonesia@un.int > > president@whitehouse.gov > > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > > thanks pete spence > > > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > > >as good > > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role > in > > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, > and > > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > > >chaotic > > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > > >else > > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by > > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. > Certain > > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think > they > > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of > the > > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > > > >regards, > > >Patrick Herron > > > > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > > >better > > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > > > >thanks pete spence > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:00:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > | I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time > line > | me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or > Moynihan or > | Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the > | genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires > to > | other large groups of people. > > do you mean like the use of napalm in Vietnam (or other weapons producing > fire in Iraq, or Serbia) or are you thinking of a different more acceptable > form of setting fire to people? do tell > > Lawrence Upton I'm against the violence, Larry, so I don't know where you're coming from. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:13:22 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Pete, > >Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this >line of >accusation. I need to be clear. > >Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the >Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, >hacking >them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too>Mike > > >i think the info was historik rather than pointing the bone!! america has >been a little hypocritical though in its slow response in this situ!! so we >decided to look at reasons maybe why. it should also be seen that Australia >also has a muddied picture re its interests and of course many other >countries. just that we need to use this medium to message people quickly >on this type of matter//thanks for yr responder!!!//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:23:32 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Mike, Pete, etc. - I suppose this line is perhaps my responsibility, so let >me explicate some basic notions here, as quickly as I can. >>Did they get the machetes from America too? > >No, but the militias are there with US and Australian financial and >military >support. And it's not all machetes. I believe that your point about who >is >actually doing the killing is an excellent one, but sometimes people can >strongly shape an environment and give orders in exchange for something. >If >this were not the case then perhaps humans would have never known war. > . I also encourage you to share >the >information about what really is happening; I can promise you NBC, The New >York Times, and CNN will not. > >Patrick Herron > the australian input just adds to the suspicion here that everyone in the UN and other involved governments are acting as slow as they can all of them to punish the east timorese for voting the way they did...a lot of australians are absolutely frustrated at the "ready to go" has gotten longer to "go' whyche means more deaths etc i really find it all very ugly//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:33:35 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CharSSmith@AOL.COM Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/14/1999 1:55:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cartograffiti@MINDSPRING.COM writes: << Thus, while the machetes might be a domestic industry in Indonesia, the rifles, troop transport vehicles, paramilitary training, etc., most certainly are not. This aid has been continued under recent administrations with the rationalization that it's the Indonesian military itself that can be counted on to bring the militias back into line. For the sheer ridiculousness of this claim, if one still needs it substantiated, one might turn to Alan Nairn's recent reports on Pacifica Radio, detailing the intimate relationship between the army and the militias. >> US reporter Alan Nairn was detained by the Indonesian military yesterday & continues to give telephone interviews via satellite. He reports today that uniformed militia members are freely coming & going on the Indonesian military base in Dili where he's being held. --cs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:45:09 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Kimball Subject: Village Eight Comments: To: jk@theeastvillage.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp http://www.TheEastVillage.com Volume Eight: Video [Wendy Kramer; Alan Sondheim; Lyn Hejinian; Anselm Berrigan; Maggie Zurawski; John Wieners; C D Wright] Poetry [Lyn Hejinian; Anselm Berrigan; Maggie Zurawski; John Wieners; Alan Sondheim; Robert Berry; Laurie Price; Araki Yasusada; C D Wright; Brenda Iijima; Simon Shuchat; Daniel Nester; Lissa Wolsak; David Hess; Brendan Lorber; Eileen Myles] Poetics [Jena Osman; Bob Perelman; Maria Damon] Art [Simon Granger; Kenji Kojima; Paul Ryan; Carol Ganick; Cho Sang; Daisuke Nicoll; Brenda Iijima; Matthew Barney] ______________ "I walk up the muggy street beginning to sun..." Video files with audio-only options: Why? Video downloads take time (worth it); audio loads more quickly. "...and I am sweating a lot by now and thinking..." Well in the 'cyber' background -- not apparent to readers and viewers -- locations of the archives of this and previous volumes will be shifting / will be shifted, so please enter by the URL above. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:49:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Fewell Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/14/99 10:48:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hobnzngr@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU writes: << Naked Lunch >> I've tried to read Burrough's Naked Lunch because I'm such a fan of Kerouac and Ginsberb, but I found the text utterly cryptic. I never felt like I had a hold on what was being said and the reading of it was utterly painful, which proved very depressing to me. Aaron Keith ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:57:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Novels of the 60's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remember _V_ - the first - as being much more important at the time - een though this dates me. tom bell "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" wrote: > > Has no one mentioned Pynchon's _Crying of Lot 49_? Ah, for the vale of San > Narciso and the halycon tunes of The Paranoids. > > Patrick Pritchett -- //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:45:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: Good time In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In town or in the mood.... It's an E X P L O S I V E M A G A Z I N E benefit event! Starring: K E N N E T H K O C H E L E N I S I K E L I A N O S M I C H A E L C O F F E Y & T I M G R I F F I N W E D N E S D A Y, S E P T E M B E R 2 9 , 8:00 PM 311 Church Street, #4 New York, NY (1.5 blocks So. of Canal) 1/9, ACE, 4/5/6 Call (718) 243-1667 with queries. Donations admired ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:34:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: novels of the 60's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not _The Ginger Man_, Billy. I was reading that in 1957. db ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:10:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Novels of the Sixties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 1._Poor Cow_ by Nell Dunn. A novel about young working class gals in London in the 60s (pubbed then too , and also a BBC film I think). (2.) Also Nell Dunn's _Talking to Women_, interviews with "regular" and writer women of the 60s. Unknown poets, and Edna O'Brien. Very intriguing period piece. 3._In Watermelon Sugar_ by Richard Brautigan. 4. _Truck_ by Katharine Dunn. I think this was pubbed in 1970. FABULOUS girl road novel, total interiority/exteriority mix, pre-Geek Love. Sounds like a nifty class! Elizabeth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:02:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: daniel bouchard Subject: Re: believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" | And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South | Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? "... while the East Timorese independence movement is commonly called 'separatist,' that makes as much sense as calling the French resistance to the Nazi occupation 'separatist')..." listening? See for details. <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:48:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: readings at Syracuse, fall 1999 In-Reply-To: <037301beff05$72e85260$324e1c26@compaq> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We have some very interesting writers coming to read at Syracuse University this fall as part of the Raymond Carver Living Writers series. All readings are at 5:45 PM, proceeded by a Q&A with undergrads who are in the Living Writers class and followed by private dinners out with the writer and Syracuse MFA students. If people are interested in making the (schleppy) trip, I'd be happy to play hostess or at least meet up. In Grant Auditorium in the Law Building at Syracuse University. Tonight: Malena Morling, poet, author of Ocean Avenue (New Issues) 9/29 -- Diane Williams, fiction writer, author of Excitability (Dalkey?) 10/13 -- poet Kimiko Hahn 11/3 -- Edwidge Danticat, novelist 11/17 -- William Gass (!!) 12/8 -- our very own Brooks Haxton, who has a book of Greek translations coming out C'est tout. Arielle **************************************************************************** "I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I describe." -- Ray Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:14:31 -0700 Reply-To: kendall@wordcircuits.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Kendall Subject: Re: hypertext suggestions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the Word Circuits Directory, which lists dozens of hypertext stories and poems, at http://www.wordcircuits.com/dir. --Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Kendall E-Mail: kendall@wordcircuits.com Home Page: http://www.wordcircuits.com/kendall ----------------------------------------------------------------- Word Circuits (Hypertext/Cybertext Poetry and Fiction): http://www.wordcircuits.com On-Line Class in Hypertext Poetry and Fiction (The New School): http://www.wordcircuits.com/kendall/htclass.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Dodie Bellamy > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:18 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: hypertext suggestions > > Hi, I have an independent study student who is going to do a > hypertext horror piece. I have no problem helping her with the > horror end of the project, but also want to suggest some good > hypertext pieces and/or theories. I'm sending her the urls of a > couple things that have caught my eye, but does anyone have any > suggestions of some cut-above hypertext links? Or even > books/articles on hypertext? > > Thanks. > > Dodie > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:41:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! In-Reply-To: <37DEDDF8.4CEDFAC3@webdelsol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You wrote: Now, wait a minute. Let's reality check. What we're talking about is a relatively unsophisticated third world military apparatus (not a crack group like Hitler's SS divisions, Iraq's Guards--an outgrowth of the Ten Thousand Immortals; or US Seals, etc.) and some machete wielding, body gutting thugs of a paramilitary nature common under many conditions, who are in unison attacking a virtually defenseless populace. Is that not so? Are they facing a line of troops who are harrying their flanks, threatening their lines, an army or resisting force which makes "simply could not have pursued" without US/Japan/etc help and a priori statement? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- Despite your will to believe otherwise, the fact remains that without the $1.1 billion dollars of direct U.S. weapons sales to Indonesia since 1975, without the U.S. continually blocking the implementation of U.N. resolutions against Indonesia's occupation, and particularly without the doubling of the military aid budget which was the tangible product of Kissinger's house-call, the invasion never would have happened in the first place. To leap from this to one of Stephen Ellis' questions, my guess is that the "interested parties" - i.e., those who stood to gain - included the usual roster of arms manufacturers, but also and in a more scalar sense the same oil and mineral corporations currently propping up the occupation of Irian Jaya. I'm looking into this and will hopefully get back to the list with names in a day or two... Back, for the moment and for the last time, to the denials: The mass-mediated attempt to portray the current crisis as simply a matter of gangs of thugs running amok is precisely an attempt to let those larger interests off the hook. As I wrote before, the link between the militias and the Indonesian armed forces has been amply demonstrated. Beyond this, the more visibly brutal attacks by the militias are being used as an excuse in most of the corporate media outlets for not attending to the larger-scale "operations" being carried out by the armed forces themselves - forced relocation of thousands of Timorese to camps in West Timor at the moment, not to mention the hundreds of thousands killed during the occupation. Murder and political violence against an entire society on that scale simply didn't happen through the disorganized rioting of "some machete wielding, body gutting thugs" - and it's here that the U.S. emerges as most fully complicit in its role as bankroller (shored up the military budget, helped guarantee World Bank and IMF monies, etc.), drill sergeant (trained the military, especially the upper echelons - there are your "operatives in the field"), and international spin doctor (kept the rest of the UN at bay). And while Habibie has expressed his acquiescence to UN intervention, General Wiranto is on record as refusing to leave the armed forces' "brothers in arms" (i.e., the militias) alone in East Timor - and this, despite the lack of any organized armed resistance. But enough. To reiterate Kali Tal's point: other posts have provided the information and the citations necessary to "make the link." That you choose to disregard them, or deliberately misread them, is lamentable, but there's nothing to be done about that. Nor would I have it any other way. I leave you to your inalienable right to remain aloof, and to the sanctity of your belief in the mystical spontaneity of political violence. Because I've seen flame wars in this space before, and because, questions of etiquette aside, I doubt whether they have any political efficacy beyond the self-congratulatory, I will henceforth restrict my involvement in this thread to posting the aforementioned link(s) and name(s). Taylor Brady -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Neff Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 4:45 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! I don't doubt what you are saying about Kissinger, policies, support, yadda yadda. This isn't my point. We're off track. My comments were directed to this statement by Peter Spence: "It may also be just as good and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese." The words "ongoing role in the slaughter and oppression" makes me think that like Nazis in the Ukraine, we are there with a policy which places active operatives in the field who are promoting and directing hacking gangs, resident psychos, and Indonesian army units to slaughters, rapine, burnings, church massacres, etc. etc. etc. US doesn't have to grant imprimatur to any dictator to begin slaughter, forced relocations, tortures, etc. This kind of thing happens all the time and is happening in other places and climes without imprimaturs. The dictator, the state is imprimatur in of itself and always has been, an arrogance which breeds intolerance at best and secret police mechanisms at worst. Such bodies and culture require no Madeline Albright, Kissinger, Ford, or whoever to lend them authority to oppress. But here is a statement I wish to challenge: "... a direct outgrowth of deliberate policies of military and economic support pursued by the U.S., Japan and other militarized nations. And although the point has now been reached at which the killings more than likely cannot be stopped without some sort of direct intervention, the extreme probability was, until quite recently, that the Indonesian regime simply could not have pursued its policies of aggression without the direct support of the U.S. and its allies - that, in other words, the annexation itself would have been unfeasible and unsustainable without that aid." Now, wait a minute. Let's reality check. What we're talking about is a relatively unsophisticated third world military apparatus (not a crack group like Hitler's SS divisions, Iraq's Guards--an outgrowth of the Ten Thousand Immortals; or US Seals, etc.) and some machete wielding, body gutting thugs of a paramilitary nature common under many conditions, who are in unison attacking a virtually defenseless populace. Is that not so? Are they facing a line of troops who are harrying their flanks, threatening their lines, an army or resisting force which makes "simply could not have pursued" without US/Japan/etc help and a priori statement? It looks to me like forced takeover requires only a savage will to see it through, not smart bombs. It's happened many times before, and will again. Taylor Brady wrote: > A few points: > > 1) Kissinger's "visit" was considerably more instrumental than the > "chat-and-tea" image might otherwise conjure one to believe. It was rather, > the U.S. State Department's imprimatur and guarantee of military assistance > to a regime embarked on a series of "policy initiatives" which included, > most notably, a) the slaughter and forced relocation of much of its own > peasantry, labor leaders and movement members, intellectuals, etc., in the > name of a defense against communism; and b) the invasion and annexation of > Timor, resulting in a brutal occupation which left nearly a quarter of a > million dead. This, while the U.S. (among others - recently, the role of > Japan and Australia would also bear some scrutiny) continued (and continues, > notwithstanding Clinton's half-assed "retraction of assistance") to provide > the proverbial "military, technical and economic aid" to the Indonesian > regime. This isn't a matter of having bought arms years ago, but one of > receiving - until this week, and that only if Clinton's retraction is to > taken at face value - ongoing direct support from the U.S. and other > armaments-producing nations. Thus, while the machetes might be a domestic > industry in Indonesia, the rifles, troop transport vehicles, paramilitary > training, etc., most certainly are not. This aid has been continued under > recent administrations with the rationalization that it's the Indonesian > military itself that can be counted on to bring the militias back into line. > For the sheer ridiculousness of this claim, if one still needs it > substantiated, one might turn to Alan Nairn's recent reports on Pacifica > Radio, detailing the intimate relationship between the army and the > militias. But other sources are many and well-documented. If you have web > access, you might take a look at the East Timor Action Network's web site: > www.etan.org > 2) The above would seem to have some bearing on your assertion that East > Timor is attempting to "secede" from a legitimate national government - > which is simply not the case. East Timor, as an Indonesian territory, is the > result of a forcible annexation sponsored by U.S. and other interests. Many > of the key figures in the initial "sponsorship" remain in positions of power > today. In other words, this is about as far from a quixotic attempt to > rectify a distant and tragic "other-people's" history as you can get. > 3) You ask: "We turned the other way on Savac we see now (sp?) in Iran, > though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the > same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the > murdering we see now?" Yes. Absolutely. As I've pointed out, this isn't > simply a case of turning the other way, but a direct outgrowth of deliberate > policies of military and economic support pursued by the U.S., Japan and > other militarized nations. And although the point has now been reached at > which the killings more than likely cannot be stopped without some sort of > direct intervention, the extreme probability was, until quite recently, that > the Indonesian regime simply could not have pursued its policies of > aggression without the direct support of the U.S. and its allies - that, in > other words, the annexation itself would have been unfeasible and > unsustainable without that aid. Until very recently, a cut-off of such > support might have sufficed to avert the campaign of terror now being > pursued. There is no "genocidal gene" - and such pseudo-explanations > ("they're just nuts _over there_, who can understand their motivations?"), > I'd warrant, most often mark the site of a real and determinate chain of > events, the complicity of one's own nation in which is precisely what the > resort to racialized typologies attempts to obscure. > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Michael Neff > Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 10:15 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > > Pete, > > Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this > line of > accusation. I need to be clear. > > Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the > Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, > hacking > them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if > their > govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This > sounds naive to the point of absurdity. > > I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest > going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and then > the > slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for > me? I don't see it from what you are saying. > > Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those > who > believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck > their > barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. > > And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South > Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we send > overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the > diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac > (sp?) in > Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do > the > same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the > murdering > we see now? > > I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time > line > me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or > Moynihan or > Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the > genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to > other large groups of people. > > Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. > > Mike > > pete spence wrote: > > > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > > to:indonesia@un.int > > president@whitehouse.gov > > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > > thanks pete spence > > > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > > >as good > > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role > in > > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and > > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > > >chaotic > > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > > >else > > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by > > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain > > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think > they > > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of > the > > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > > > >regards, > > >Patrick Herron > > > > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > > >better > > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > > > >thanks pete spence > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > -- > > ================================ > Web Del Sol > http://webdelsol.com > LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW -- ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:23:03 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Vickery Subject: Trying to Trace Barbara Baracks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Poetics List, I'm trying to trace Barbara Baracks who was active in the New York poetry scene in the late seventies. Would anyone have any information on where she might be now? Thanks, Ann Vickery ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:38:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Clay Subject: Robert Creeley & Elsa Dorfman: En Famille Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" GenevaGranary Books announces the publication of En Famille A Poem by Robert Creeley with Photographs by Elsa Dorfman [Special offer to the Poetics List follows description.] [The entire book is posted on our website: www.granarybooks.com] In En Famille, Granary Books presents a collaboration between Robert Creeley and Elsa Dorfman that is honest and lucid, with an awareness and irony that, according to William Corbett, will "ensnare the reader." In twenty-two frank, color photographs, Dorfman presents various kinds of family configurations and generations. The sitters are unglamorized, yet a sense of comfort accompanies their awkwardness. "Dorfman's portraits," writes Corbett, project a clothed nakedness, the blunt familiar fact of physical presence. She does this by a contrivance so simple as to be beyond words." Creeley's poem, too, addresses the tensions of family life, of nurturing and vulnerability, of coming and going. His compelling questions and "homespun lines are as simple as William Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience" (Corbett). "Robert Creeley and Elsa Dorfman bring us the real news of the different ways the word 'family' has been made to leap beyond its lexical meanings. Poet and photographer register how family is being re-envisioned by those who live as individuals within a 'securing center.' Beginning with, and subverting, 'I wandered lonely as a cloud,' William Wordsworth's quintessential Romantic image of the self, Creeley writes a poem whose formal structure, its interlocking, echoing pattern of rhymed quatrains, challenges our assumptions about the legacy of Romantic and Modernist poetry. It is not that their legacy or the family should endure in some rigid manner; it's that they have changed and are changing still." -John Yau, poet & critic, author of Active Participant: Robert Creeley and the Visual Arts Dorfman and Creeley have known one another since the 1960s; En Famille is their second collaboration. Their first, His Idea, was published by Coach House Press in 1975. Dorfman's photographs of Creeley also appear on several of the poet's books, including the University of California's The Collected Poems of Robert Creeley. Designed by Philip Gallo at The Hermetic Press. 8 1/4" X 6 1/4"; 80 pp; 22 color images, hardback. ISBN 1-887123-26-1 $19.95 Available at better bookstores, SPD (510 524-1668), D.A.P. (1-800-338-BOOK), or direct from the publisher (orders@granarybooks.com). Special offer to the Poetics List: Till Sept 24 En Famille is available at half-price plus $2 shipping (flat rate, surface, anywhere). Send $12 (NY State residents send $12.83) check or cash to Granary Books 568 Broadway NY NY 10012 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:13:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christina Milletti Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/15/99 9:06:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!, editor@WEBDELSOL.COM writes: << I don't believe that either Patrick, I just think your explanations are formula in some respects and inadequate to explain the condition of group killing psychosis. >> Why must it be reduced to group psychosis? The murdering gangs are paid. They don't kill, they don't eat. Talk about Occam's razor. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:07:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christina Milletti Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Follow the money. SE Asian Royal Dutch Shell (aka Indonesia), The Lippo Bank, the Asian Tiger money market funds, all stand to lose big in any protracted instability. Given this, is the US administration's reaction a surprise? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:03:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Poetry As Cultural Critique Symposium, Nov. 5 & 6 Comments: To: Julie Schumacher , creativefac@tc.umn.edu, writers-l@amethyst.tc.umn.edu, engrad-l@amethyst.tc.umn.edu, subsubpoetics@listbot.com Comments: cc: Leslie S Cooney In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ANNOUNCEMENT: POETRY AS CULTURAL CRITIQUE - Symposium: Poetry as Cultural Critique November 5-6, 1999 University of Minnesota, Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics, & Borders Bookstore (Uptown) co-directors, Maria Damon and Mark Nowak Friday, November 5th: 1:30pm, Introductory Remarks by Maria Damon 2:00-3:00pm, Opening Talk Tim Brennan, "The Obscure Reveries of the Inward Gaze" 3:15-4:45pm, Opening Roundtable on "Poetry as Cultural Critique" Panelists: Harryette Mullen, Tim Brennan, C.S. Giscombe Moderator: Maria Damon 7:30pm, Reading at Border's Uptown Introductions, Mark Nowak Readers: Roy Miki, Harryette Mullen Saturday, November 6th 10:00am-11:30am, Talks Juliana Spahr, "I'm Dracula": Bruce Andrews's "Confidence Trick" Harryette Mullen, "Incessant Elusives: The Oppositional Poetry of Will Alexander and Erica Hunt" 1:00pm-2:30pm, Talks Roy Miki, "Unravelling Roy Kiyooka: A Re-assessment Amidst Shifting Boundaries" C. S. Giscombe, "ReCrossing the Prairie State" 3:00pm-4:30pm, Roundtable on "Journals: The Poetics and Politics of Editorship" Panelists: Juliana Spahr, Roy Miki, Mark Nowak Moderator: Eric Lorberer (Rain Taxi Review of Books) 7:30pm, Reading at Border's Uptown Introductions, Mark Nowak Readers: Tim Brennan, Juliana Spahr, C.S. Giscombe Juliana Spahr teaches at the University of Hawai'i, Manoa. _Response_ was published in 1996 by Sun and Moon Press. Spiderwasp or Literary Criticism was published this year by Explosive Books. She has a critical book, Everybody's Autonomy, forthcoming from U of Alabama P next year. (**RESPONSE would be best book of Juliana's to have on hand.) Tim Brennan teaches is a Prof. at the University of Minnesota. Books: 1. _Salman Rushdie and the Third World: Myths of the Nation_ (Macmillan, 1989). 2. _At Home in the World: Cosmopolitanism Now_ (Harvard, 1997). 3. Forthcoming, _Music in Cuba_ (U. of Minnesota, 2000). (***either of the first two books are fine by Tim) C.S. Giscombe is an English professor at the Pennyslvania State University. My recent poetry books are _Here_ (1994), _Giscome Road_ (1998), & _Two Sections from Practical Geography_ (1999); my prose book of linked essays about travel, race, & family, _Into & Out of Dislocation_ , will be published in March 2000. _Here_ and _Giscome Road_ were both published by Dalkey Archive Press (Fairchild Hall, Illinois State University, Normal, IL 61790); the _Giscome Road_ book is, apparently, out of print but may be available again by November. The _Two Sections from Practical Geography_ chapbook was published by Diaeresis Chapbooks (c/o Mark Scroggins, 401 NE 45th St., Boca Raton FL 33431.) _Into & Out of Dislocation_ will be published by North Point Press/ Farrar, Straus & Giroux. (***HERE or GISCOME ROAD, if you can get it) Harryette Mullen teaches African-American literature and creative writing at UCLA. She is the author of four poetry books, including Tree Tall Woman (Energy Earth Communications, 1981), Trimmings (Tender Buttons Books, 1991), S*PeRM**K*T (Singing Horse Press, 1992), and Muse & Drudge (Singing Horse Press, 1995). Roy Miki teaches contemporary literature in the English Department at Simon Fraser University. He is known in the Canadian literary community as a writer, poet, cultural activist, and for his editorial work on the literary journal West Coast Line (1990-1999). His publications include studies of William Carlos Williams and George Bowering, as well as Justice in Our Time: The Japanese Canadian Redress Settlement (co-authored with Cassandra Kobayashi; Talonbooks), a documentary history of the Japanese Canadian redress movement, and two collections of poems, Saving Face (Turnstone) and Random Access File (Red Deer College Press). He is also the editor of Pacific Windows: Collected Poems of Roy K. Kiyooka (Talonbooks), which received the 1997 poetry award from the Association for Asian American Studies. His latest publication is a collection of essays, Broken Entries: Race Subjectivity Writing (The Mercury Press, 1998). SYMPOSIUM SPONSORED BY XCP: CROSS-CULTURAL POETICS, THE UMN ENGLISH DEPARTMENT, CREATIVE WRITING PROGRAM, CLA, BORDERS BOOKS AND MOST OF ALL THE MCKNIGHT ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS AND HUMANITIES ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:26:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Re: hypertext suggestions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > but does anyone have any > suggestions of some cut-above hypertext links? My favorite cyberpoem is Stephanie Strickland's "Ballad of Sand and Harry Soot": http://wordcircuits.com/gallery/sandsoot/ If you've been underwhelmed by other mixtures of image and text, check out this "ballad tale of love gone wrong between the enigmatic Sand, she of silicon-based liveliness, and Soot, a man of carbon, biochemical man, man of flesh and mood, a person." Rachel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:35:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=DtKojwzlITCvL37OVrs6o827o0EqzpIOwZyO1NHIDuxH2GLGOrvQc5N6" --0__=DtKojwzlITCvL37OVrs6o827o0EqzpIOwZyO1NHIDuxH2GLGOrvQc5N6 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Ok, I'm probably going to be taken to task for this, but here's a little review I wrote a while ago which isn't going to be published (tho here it is!). It may seem knee-jerky to some, sloppily termed or patronizing to others, but perhaps there's some matter here worth discussing? Or if not, not. *** Carla Harryman The Words, After Carl Sandburg's The Rutabaga Stories and Jean-Paul Sartre O Books The Words is a radical, perhaps even --0__=DtKojwzlITCvL37OVrs6o827o0EqzpIOwZyO1NHIDuxH2GLGOrvQc5N6 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1257 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =93bold=94 deconstruction of the novel or memoir forms, but as opposed to the nouveau roman of Wittig and Robbe-Grillet, it is scattershot in its targets, and doesn=92t appear t= o point to any secure set of objects or themes. Moments of lucidity are interspersed with wrench-in-the-machinery doggerel that makes reading t= he book a task -- an intellectually challenging one perhaps, but occasiona= lly disheartening as the form is so clearly indebted to Modernist models th= at, more than a century old, seem to have outlived their usefulness (as mod= els, that is). Somewhere between a Rimbaud declaiming against the snoring Verlaine and Lautreamont swimming with the sharks, Harryman screams the= birth of a new feminine consciousness, one that, indeed, goes a long wa= y in subverting the previous century's conception of female passivity: =93Af= ter childhood, for many days running I studied people's asses with the slow= ness of one who has discovered the crucial element in a universal tragedy. = I slept too long. I could reach over in bed and feel European history, i= ts density, course through the bloodstream of my adolescent mate. While h= e slept and breathed equations of collective effort and heroic self-sacrifice, I spread myself across the bed and concentrated on this= recurring fantasy: a particle of fog burnt off at midday by the north c= oast sun.=94 [12] Though Harryman is considered part of the Language genera= tion of writing, it appears that she develops a line quite directly from Eng= lish Futurist-inflected writers like Mina Loy and Wyndham Lewis -- both stau= nch critics of any sort of democratic humanism -- and like them shares a penchant for larger-than-life mythological, or Zarathustrean, figures -= - though, post-structuralist as she is, her "mail order allegories" [p. 7= 2] are provisional at best. The protagonist -- more a motif -- in The Wor= ds is a figure named "Woemess,=94 which seems a pun on the word =93woman=94= and menstrual imagery (or perhaps the aborted fetus, tying her sense of subjectivity in with that of Baudelaire=92s in =93Benediction,=94 in wh= ich his mother asked to give birth to a brood of vapors rather than to a poet).= She fades in and out of the narrative like a figure in a house of mirro= rs -- "Woemess baked in the sad plains. She was as unreal as a discovery = made elsewhere=94 starts one chapter -- but occasionally is given to excitab= le, oracular outbursts: =93Woemess put the hat on her head and continued he= r speech as if she had played all the parts, =91In the recess of the cryp= tic world, where my arm sings to transcendental wampum, there are emergency= vocabularies waiting in the wings to take over when we are failed by categories. If I wanted to, right now, I could paint the picture of th= e picture, show you the cryptic world, the song, and the wampum. Or a dr= eary series of irregular rectangles, a repetitious dirge, and money. But if= I take you there, we will be gone.=94 [57] There is much philosophical terminology in here, as well as many plays towards fable-like forms and= Steinian word-centered writing, but the most salient feature seems to b= e that of the a new voice of feminine power, albeit one centered around opacity, or moments of overwhelming presence, than master narrative: =93Femininity can't be narrated. A theory develops that only what can = be ignored can be narrated. Cactus, can it be ignored?=94 [52] However,= though the general texture of the writing is brisk, at times it is repetitive and uncontrolled, and the content, ironically, fails because= it is not self-centered enough -- it's the recreation of the struggles of = the ego confined more than the hapless, charismatic traces of its enactment= . In this way it comes off as a bit academic, artsy, and not philosophica= l in that unmediated Nietzschean sense that it aspires to -- it doesn't seem= to relate to the world. Nonetheless, The Words is a pretty good read, and= possibly an interesting anthem for feminism. = --0__=DtKojwzlITCvL37OVrs6o827o0EqzpIOwZyO1NHIDuxH2GLGOrvQc5N6-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:43:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=pnhhqL1dQ7fMvnjWze4ffc6uxbju2V1gEa79cuxb2cbpa9YN1QAF6rlv" --0__=pnhhqL1dQ7fMvnjWze4ffc6uxbju2V1gEa79cuxb2cbpa9YN1QAF6rlv Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Here's another one from the U: drive, for no particular reason. *** Bop Perelman Ten to One, Selected Poems Wesleyan University Press Perelman has distinguished himself from his Language peers by moving recently into academic respectability, publishing two books of criticism, the second of which, The Marginalizaton of Poetry, was about the Language movement itself. Temperamentally more congenial than poets such as Bruce Andrews, Lyn Hejinian and Barrett Watten, who have often opted for theoretic density or outright opacity in both poetry and prose, Perelman is considered by many the most accessible or even --0__=pnhhqL1dQ7fMvnjWze4ffc6uxbju2V1gEa79cuxb2cbpa9YN1QAF6rlv Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1257 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =93lyrical=94 Language poet, but one can also say he is the most rational, as his poetry sacrifices comm= on aspects of aesthetic affect -- such as the angst-ridden dialectic betwe= en personal expression and the integrity of form -- for a sort of plain-sp= oken irony in a tradition that can be traced back to the Enlightenment, or w= hich can be linked to more recent concerns with =93entropy=94 (form dissolve= d into linked gestures). An early poem such as =93An Autobiography=94 is a pl= ay on the type of minimal French novelette, and Perelman is quite apt at satirizing the more indulgent, but perhaps also un-American, aspects of= this genre, such as the disclosure of repressed sensibility amidst the drama of religious confession: =93I wanted to cover my mother with kiss= es, and for her to have no clothes on. It was quite usual to feel one side= of the face getting sunburned, while the other was being frozen. A journe= y of this kind is no joke. [...] I always wanted to give them to her on her bosom. Be so good as to remember that I lost her, in childbed, when I = was barely seven.=94 Of his =93father,=94 he writes, with metaphysical, Ca= tholic overtones (murder striking at the heart): =93I abhorred my father. He brought with him memories of how it feels to be intensely, fiercely hun= gry. He came and interrupted our kisses.=94 [p. 2] Oddly, Perelman=92s poet= ry is atypical of Language writing in that it's distrust in the referent is disclosed discursively rather than by example; that is, more like a Bar= thes than a Bernstein, he appears less concerned with "liberating" language = such as to foreground its =93presence=94 than with explaining, casually, per= haps reductively, the links between syntax and ontology: =93No place exists = even once. Even before / Birth, earlier made up syntax / Could tell you apa= rt / From a thing or two, nothing waiting / In the wind, spiritual placebo p= lus / The actual problem of dying.=94 [=93Statement," p. 53] However, like= Bernstein, he can be deathly funny, and uses bathos quite well, as in t= he poem "Oedipus Rex,=94 which could have been out of Mel Brooke=92s Histo= ry of the World Part I: =93What news, ancient uncle, from the transcendental desktop? / KREON: The people, hemmed in by liberal playgrounds / and rightwing communications systems, are dead / or dying. No one=92s complaining, mind you, but with the inauguration just hours away the sk= y seems to be crumbling, and the decibel level in some stadiums is below = that of Mallarme=92s tomb. / God thought you should know.=94 [p. 70] Includ= ed in the volume is the poem made famous by Frederic Jameson, =93China=94 -- = a series of fake captions to news photographs from China, presented alone as a "schizophrenic" but evocative poem -- which in hindsight is witty still= , but nonetheless a toned down, less masterful version of a poem from Ashbery=92s The Tennis Court Oath. Indeed, Perelman can be faulted for= not always achieving aesthetic effects in his poems, as many of them -- including the 6-word-to-a-line poems which intend, conceptually, to fli= rt with the aleatory, and to counter any "false" notions of the idealism o= f form -- are rhythmically unvaried or unexciting, or at least lack the s= ort of decisions that, when made well, inspires the reader=92s interest in = the meter, sound patterning and images, and by extension the content. The poems work well as =93assays=94 into topical issues -- Chomsky would be= happy with such poetry, as it offers no delusions yet shows the connections, = like a domesticated Ginsberg -- and welcome open dialogue with its contents = (its authority is pedagogically inclined), but one asks: =93Is it art?=94 P= erelman, with a nod to Duchamp's subversions of the retina, would delight in the= question. = --0__=pnhhqL1dQ7fMvnjWze4ffc6uxbju2V1gEa79cuxb2cbpa9YN1QAF6rlv-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:56:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Novels_of_the_60=B4s_/_Thomas_Dorow_?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999, 1:02 AM +0200 From: My realme Subject: Novels of the 60=B4s I already backchanneled this, but it seems that quite a few people are interested in novels of the sixties, so if german authors are permitted, i would like to suggest these two: Rolf Dieter Brinkmann: Keiner weiss mehr. Brinkmann congeniously translated Frank O=B4Hara=B4s poetry to german, was = the editor of "Silver Screen" and "Acid", two compilations that first introduced Burroughs, Bukowski, O=B4Hara and several others to a german audience. "Acid" was a cult when I was in my teens. Brinkmann himself mainly known for his poetry. Check out "Westward 1&2" if you come across it. His most exciting work is the journal "Rom, Blicke". I don=B4t know if any of his work is translated, if it isn=B4t, there=B4s a job to be done. Hubert Fichte: Die Palette This is the first novel to portray the gay underground in Hamburg. = Fichte=B4s style is amazing, it was termed "new sensitivity" when he first came out with his work, but to me it appears as a combination of Doeblin=B4s = montage techniques with elements of the nouveau roman, a very physical and psychedelic style. If you don=B4t know it, you should. If it isn=B4t translated, you should do it yourself or find somebody who will do it. Fichte left a great body of work after his death a few years ago, he is still mainly read in fan circles, but this is truly excellent stuff. Greetings, Thomas Dorow ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:43:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: I'm With Stupid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit everything should be interesting, I totally agree. in the light of that, I'm wondering -- innocently, mind you - what with the air so filled with baloney (say bologna and you're a phongna) crying to be heard -- I use the term 'baloney' with a verifiably sweet expression on my face, by the way -- if there is a particular thing that poets do when NOT writing their ineffable freedoms. you know, to keep the tractor in working fettle. do they let sail away their language for the more effable diurnal this and that, or do they -- how should I say it?-- breathe the damn poetical elemental all the freaking time? what is the life of a poet and how does it, that life, work in this treasured ignorant world? I'm a dullard from way back but it could be, correct me if I'm wrong, that I've hit on a philosophical question here. those are toughies ALWAYS, but gee, it seems like we ought to evaluate the monster we're making constantly, and not just in our powerful creative moments when we share Emily Dickinson's blistering (and unveering) sense of course thru the forest. such evaluation seems simply the dutiful thing, BUT I COULD BE WRONG. I, a lowly rock in a world of mountains, just wonder if the comprehensive intensity remains intact, or does it get to slack off when no one from Parnassus is there to cheer? I've never said a truth in my life, so I'm talking need to know here. are we stuck with our language or is it stuck with us, and all our caprices? what's the 4-1-1 on community standards? I'm hot to know. I've got lots to learn. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:43:39 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joan Houlihan Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Taylor, Of all the responses to Mike Neff's e-mail, yours seem to be the best examples of a logic constructed partly on the idea that because events occur together in time, the events are somehow linked causally, and partly on the idea that events which you do not personally witness, or have any special knowledge of, are nonetheless events that you can interpret not only correctly, but also "righteously"--that is, you are able to divine the motivations and moral construction of all those involved, from the beginning of the forced annexation of East Timor to its bloody fight for independence. It's quite amazing to me, a liberal, to see the kind of reaction generated by a clearly written, well-reasoned message (Neff's). What has created this firestorm? Simply the suggestion that the US government (and whatever else we conceive that entity to be,it is still a collection of people with limitations) may not be wholly responsible for what's happening in East Timor. I don't see that Mike Neff was disputing any historical facts, or events leading up to what's happening there--only that he was questioning the idea that these successive events *had* to be linked to either a kind of evil intentionality, or an immoral turning away by the US government. He was instead, and rightly I think, proposing the idea that deeper, and even random, forces are also at work in these situations--not only, but also. That we need to consider the constant recurrence of group hatreds, killings, the human prediliciton for wiping each other out. Nowhere was he suggesting that arms were *not* sold, that US interests were *not* pursued, or that the US often gets behind what turn out to be (or always were) rotten leaders/causes--sometimes in the interest of avoiding worse leaders/causes, or more likely, for simple economic or ideologic reasons. Now that I've seen what comes back from this "radical" idea that the US government may not be the God we can blame, I'm astonished not only by the list's intolerance, but also by the realization that so many liberals have given up their ability to analyze and respond to a clear idea objectively, for the more comfortable idea that there's always clearly someone to blame--if not God, then the government. Joan >From: Taylor Brady >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:53:14 -0700 > >A few points: > >1) Kissinger's "visit" was considerably more instrumental than the >"chat-and-tea" image might otherwise conjure one to believe. It was rather, >the U.S. State Department's imprimatur and guarantee of military assistance >to a regime embarked on a series of "policy initiatives" which included, >most notably, a) the slaughter and forced relocation of much of its own >peasantry, labor leaders and movement members, intellectuals, etc., in the >name of a defense against communism; and b) the invasion and annexation of >Timor, resulting in a brutal occupation which left nearly a quarter of a >million dead. This, while the U.S. (among others - recently, the role of >Japan and Australia would also bear some scrutiny) continued (and >continues, >notwithstanding Clinton's half-assed "retraction of assistance") to provide >the proverbial "military, technical and economic aid" to the Indonesian >regime. This isn't a matter of having bought arms years ago, but one of >receiving - until this week, and that only if Clinton's retraction is to >taken at face value - ongoing direct support from the U.S. and other >armaments-producing nations. Thus, while the machetes might be a domestic >industry in Indonesia, the rifles, troop transport vehicles, paramilitary >training, etc., most certainly are not. This aid has been continued under >recent administrations with the rationalization that it's the Indonesian >military itself that can be counted on to bring the militias back into >line. >For the sheer ridiculousness of this claim, if one still needs it >substantiated, one might turn to Alan Nairn's recent reports on Pacifica >Radio, detailing the intimate relationship between the army and the >militias. But other sources are many and well-documented. If you have web >access, you might take a look at the East Timor Action Network's web site: >www.etan.org >2) The above would seem to have some bearing on your assertion that East >Timor is attempting to "secede" from a legitimate national government - >which is simply not the case. East Timor, as an Indonesian territory, is >the >result of a forcible annexation sponsored by U.S. and other interests. Many >of the key figures in the initial "sponsorship" remain in positions of >power >today. In other words, this is about as far from a quixotic attempt to >rectify a distant and tragic "other-people's" history as you can get. >3) You ask: "We turned the other way on Savac we see now (sp?) in Iran, >though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the >same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the >murdering we see now?" Yes. Absolutely. As I've pointed out, this isn't >simply a case of turning the other way, but a direct outgrowth of >deliberate >policies of military and economic support pursued by the U.S., Japan and >other militarized nations. And although the point has now been reached at >which the killings more than likely cannot be stopped without some sort of >direct intervention, the extreme probability was, until quite recently, >that >the Indonesian regime simply could not have pursued its policies of >aggression without the direct support of the U.S. and its allies - that, in >other words, the annexation itself would have been unfeasible and >unsustainable without that aid. Until very recently, a cut-off of such >support might have sufficed to avert the campaign of terror now being >pursued. There is no "genocidal gene" - and such pseudo-explanations >("they're just nuts _over there_, who can understand their motivations?"), >I'd warrant, most often mark the site of a real and determinate chain of >events, the complicity of one's own nation in which is precisely what the >resort to racialized typologies attempts to obscure. > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] >On Behalf Of Michael Neff >Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 10:15 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > >Pete, > >Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this >line of >accusation. I need to be clear. > >Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the >Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, >hacking >them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if >their >govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This >sounds naive to the point of absurdity. > >I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest >going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and >then >the >slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it >for >me? I don't see it from what you are saying. > >Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those >who >believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck >their >barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. > >And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South >Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we >send >overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the >diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac >(sp?) in >Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do >the >same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the >murdering >we see now? > >I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time >line >me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or >Moynihan or >Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the >genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires >to >other large groups of people. > >Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. > >Mike > > >pete spence wrote: > > > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > > to:indonesia@un.int > > president@whitehouse.gov > > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > > thanks pete spence > > > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > > >as good > > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing >role >in > > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, >and > > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > > >chaotic > > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > > >else > > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit >by > > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. >Certain > > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think >they > > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of >the > > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > > > >regards, > > >Patrick Herron > > > > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > > >better > > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > > > >thanks pete spence > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >-- > > > > >================================ >Web Del Sol >http://webdelsol.com >LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:01:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: novels of the 60's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" lady chatterley's lover henry miller ullysses lolita and i thought ginger man were forbidden in the states until maybe the howl trial or was that in 57 too? Didn't the 60's start in 55? and end with the murder of john lennon?was that 79? forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:50:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: Re: Trying to Trace Barbara Baracks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann Vickery wrote: > > Dear Poetics List, > > I'm trying to trace Barbara Baracks who was active in the New York poetry > scene in the late seventies. Would anyone have any information on where > she might be now? > > Thanks, > > Ann Vickery She worked with me at Bankers Trust for several years; she left her position there over a year ago; her address in the Poets & Writers address book is 427 15th Street, #4B, Brooklyn, NY 11215; this is a good address as of... over a year ago. Regards, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:08:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Re: hypertext suggestions Comments: To: kendall@wordcircuits.com In-Reply-To: <002201beff41$92cfc680$34388e18@cablecoop.ispchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 11:14 PM -0700 9/14/99, Robert Kendall wrote: >Check out the Word Circuits Directory, which lists dozens of hypertext stories >and poems, at http://www.wordcircuits.com/dir. > >--Rob Thanks, Rob, and all the rest of you who so thoughtfully replied to me. I've forwarded all your suggestions to Rachel. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:19:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Reiner Subject: L.A. Reading Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sunday at Cafe Balcony...the first reading of our new season: Avery E. D. Burns Joseph Noble Starts at 4 p.m. Address and other info are at http://www.litpress.com Avery E. D. Burns's book Stagger is out on the web site Black Fire White Fire (http://home.earthlink.net/~kunos/). Poems from "A Duelling Primer" have appeared in Chain, Idiom and Proliferation. Other work has been in Angle, Rhizome, and Windhover. A book "The Idler Wheel" is forthcoming on Sink Press, and, poems from this work will be in the next issues of Instress, Ribot, and Syllogism. Avery has edited the magazine lyric& since 1992, and has run the Canessa Park reading series in San Francisco for the past 3 years. Joseph Noble has had creative and critical work published in Hambone, lyric&, Talisman, Antenym, and TO. He has poetry appearing in upcoming issues of Melodeon and Vapor/Strains. He is currently working on a new series, "an ives set," which engages with the music and ideas of Charles Ives. The third section, which is still in progress and is called "Improvisations," riffs off several of Ives' pieces. Joseph Noble is also writing two collaborative poem series, one each with the poets Avery Burns and Eric Selland. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:30:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christina Milletti wrote: > In a message dated 9/15/99 9:06:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!, editor@WEBDELSOL.COM > writes: > > << I don't believe that either Patrick, I just think your explanations are > formula > in some respects and inadequate to explain the condition of group killing > psychosis. >> > > Why must it be reduced to group psychosis? The murdering gangs are paid. > They don't kill, they don't eat. Talk about Occam's razor. Why? Why indeed? I should have realized there must be a considerable sense of job well done when they have earned their pay. I'm certain they would never stoop to disemboweling unless paid to do so! This is all absorbing to me. Since you are keenly aware of the mechanisms in place, no doubt having first hand knowledge, I suppose you can reveal whether they are paid by the hour or by the body or head? If they are working for the NSA they deserve a retirement package. Course, if they're rampaging as humans are inclined to do from time to time, then how can it be the fault of US? It therefore stands to reason they must be paid. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:08:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Sounds like you're cutting flame-bait to me. No. > To support your > viewpoint you'd have to argue that the US habit of providing > financial and military support to dictatorial governments in the > Third World (as long as they are willing to support our economic > interests) has no bearing on our moral or ethical responsibilities in > those regions. No, that's not my viewpoint. And I don't know what the last part of your statement really means. Is this a global policeman thing? > From what you say, it shouldn't matter that in > country after country we are willing to prop up unpopular regimes > (and occasionally invent and install them) to serve our economic and > political interests despite popular resistance to externally imposed > structures of authority. Asking Pete to "educate" you on this topic > is sidestepping your own responsibility to defend your position of > non-involvement. That's not my position ... I'm tired of this already. And I know far more about it than you suspect. You are simply touching on International Politics 101, my friend. It's far more complicated than this. > He provided you with URLS--I have no doubt that > you're educated enough to read them, come to your own conclusions and > then "educate" *Peter* if you so choose. > I haven't posted to POETICS in ages because the level of discourse > here usually winds up pissing me off if I get involved, > despite the > fact that I'm a publisher of poetry and that really this *ought* to > be a place I'm comfortable hanging out. When somebody on POETICS > posts something that somebody else doesn't like (particularly on > political grounds) the common tactic on this list is to snidely and > sarcastically attack the intelligence of the poster, and rarely ever > to directly engage their political arguments. I like political > arguments and I think they're related to poetry. What I don't like is > the very nasty tone of intellectual and moral superiority wielded by > some (usually more conservative) members to silence others here. It > takes more work to make your own argument, Peter, than to sneer at > someone else's argument. > > Receding into silence once again, > Kali -- ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:21:37 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I haven't posted to POETICS in ages because the level of discourse >here usually winds up pissing me off What I don't like is >the very nasty tone of intellectual and moral superiority wielded by >some (usually more conservative) members to silence others here. It >takes more work to make your own argument, Peter, than to sneer at >someone else's argument. > >Receding into silence once again, >Kali who is this peter you refer to here??? i'm certainly not being over rightious belive me in this discuss. re the poetics list i find it one of the most even discussions i'm on,,try FRAMEWORKS for angst and silliness//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:23:45 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed But it's heartening to see this thread become an >exchange not a flame war. > >Brian Lennon i think the poetics listers are discussing the "sidings" of this east timor situ very well//pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:33:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Will the sun rise tomorrow? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Michael Neff asks a fascinating question about the horrific violence in East Timor: Couldn't it have happened anyway, even (yes, alas) without CIA engineering of the 1965 coup against Sukarno, the ensuing massacre in a year's time of around 3/4 of a million people, the ongoing US-coddling of the IMF-loving Indonesian generals, and the green light of silence from the West as that Western-trained and supplied military invaded and scorched East Timor? It might _seem_ as if we've been complicit in creating certain violence-enabling conditions on a macro scale, but how can we _really_ be sure? As Neff puts it, lots of people are getting killed by natively-made machetes, so how can we _really_ know this current explosion of violence wouldn't have happened sans our assistance anyway? He's right, of course. As Hume asked, How can we be sure that the sun will rise tomorrow? Or as Wittgenstein asked, more or less, How can I be sure that that man is truly in pain? We can't! There is simply no certain relationship between our observation of the world and its "empirical" manifestations, no matter how stubborn the evidences may seem. So if we can't be sure about the sun, or about human pain, even, how can we be sure about something like the consequences of imperialist policy in Indonesia, especially when people like to kill each other with rocks anyway?! Life is a puzzle, and I agree with Mr. Neff. Now I'm going to read about American poetry at Web del Sol. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:28:03 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Does anyone know specifics re: the role of Indonesian General Wiranto in >the >recent events unfolding in East Timor? going by media noise it seems this was well planned but i think the general may have lost control, i think the idea was to have the militia do the dirty work and keep the army out of it also religeousity sure has its place in this mess//pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:22:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: CAN I believe it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know I will be further scathed here and backchannel insulted because my skepticism knows no bounds, but here is a tiny excerpt from The Nation article that is being pushed in my face as if it is the word of God: "According to a classified cable on the meeting, circulating at Pacific Command headquarters in Hawaii, Blair, rather than telling Wiranto to shut the militias down, instead offered him a series of promises of new US assistance. " Fair Questions: How did the reporter know the above? How did he get hold of a copy of the classified cable at Pacific Command? Why would such a cable come from Pacific Command and not the embassy? And what are the promises? Why aren't they listed here? And how can anyone not be skeptical? And is it ok to be skeptical? REGARDLESS, this has nothing to do with my initial remarks. I just find it funny that this is one of the sources of absolute authority in this matter, for some people. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:35:04 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Michael Neff > >I'm not an expert on East Timor/Indonesian politics and don't claim to be. >I am >commenting specifically on attempts to directly link the US govt (parties, >individuals, policies, some combo thereof) and specific actions or >inactions on >its part to these current manifestations of acute human barbarism. there was at least one us military spokesman in a recent newsreport who said america has no interest there so thats why there is reticence to be involved, the question here is under the grand new world order bullshit spoken by the US over the last decade, where is the order to come from if "interests or the lack" slows down ANY governments actions where people are being slaughtered , this slowness also includes the farce of "readiness" my own government here in australia are playing et etc et//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:55:17 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Christina Milletti >Follow the money. SE Asian Royal Dutch Shell (aka Indonesia), The Lippo >Bank, the Asian Tiger money market funds, all stand to lose big in any >protracted instability. > >Given this, is the US administration's reaction a surprise? and the list can go on/ but business shouldn't stop moral decisions thru the UN or whereever to do something as quick as possible ..maybe if people wanna do some research they could check out who were in the film crew with yoris ivens when at the end of the 2nd ww he was trying to make a film called INDONESIA CALLING!!!//pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:48:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: For MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII =---- For A., K., G., N., A., L., F., B., A., J., P., T., L., J., M., S. It is morning in the Cafe Lautreamont. Pierre stares me down. Pierre brings me coffee. Pierre knows I know he is a function who is not a function. I am a state to Pierre's operator. Pierre is the occupier of a role, as in main(Pierre). Pierre carries and sullies a revolution. Pierre is part of a surplus economy that I recognize. I do not acknowledge that I recognize this surplus. There is a state within which I am in Pierre and a state otherwise. The state otherwise is to forget Pierre which is to annihilate him. The revolution moves from person to person, stateless. The revolution is a state, mobile and wandering. I am linked to Pierre at the cafe and coupled otherwise to Pierre. I say, "I am coupled to all the Pierres in the world." I say, "I did not ask for this. I would not have asked for this." I say, "I asked for a cup of coffee and nothing more." I say, "I have paid you for this cup of coffee." Pierre has not spoken and I assume he sees me as the signified. I am the signified of a certain exchange, surplus value. Coupled within exchange, I have no use; it is all circuitry. Pierre and I are engaged in mutual annihilation. Pierre gazes at me and the revolution stirs. Unspeaking, the revolution blindly cauterizes the remnants of language. I say, "Words no longer account for anything, Pierre." I say, "These are sounds I am making, of no value whatsoever." I say, "I lean on other processes, alan.o for example for sustenance." I say, "As if we would ever be friends," and the revolution stirs. Something speaks in one and another and speaks forever. Sometimes speaks at the portal of death and constitution. I say, "I will live in you, Francoise." I say, "You will remember me, keep my diaries intact, Francoise." I say, "You will find a publisher after all," Francoise. There is silence at the other end of the room. Pierre brings me coffee and Francoise smiles and says nothing. There is a slight stirring of the white curtains in the sun. A breeze is blowing outside and there are sailboats in the harbor. An accordion, a gypsy, a horse-and-cart, a trolley, a very happy day. _______________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:57:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties In-Reply-To: <839f14a3.2510634b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I've tried to read Burrough's Naked Lunch because I'm such a fan of Kerouac >and Ginsberb, but I found the text utterly cryptic. I never felt like I had >a hold on what was being said and the reading of it was utterly painful, >which proved very depressing to me. > >Aaron Keith Does this mean that you do not want to find any reading painful? Why is that? Surely one of the most honourable and usual purposes of a fiction writer of any seriousness would be to make the reading painful. Another might be to make it exhilarating. I have found lots of writing painful (not talking about references here) and returned to it, knowing that it is important. In early years that writing included _The Cantos_. Later it included _Palimpsest_ and _Geography & Plays_ and _The Casnnibal_. I do not find books by James Lee Burke to be painful; though I read them, I will not reread them. I dont remember ever being deprtessed because a book was painful to read. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:57:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: believe it!!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990915100232.009bfbe0@po7.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >| And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South >| Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Uh, East Timor voted to be independent. Quebec voted to remain part of Canada. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:53:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: volunteers sought for SPT soiree Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" On Saturday, October 2, Small Press Traffic will hold its 5th annual literary soiree and manuscript auction. This year's soiree ("Silver Streak") will be combined with our 25th anniversary celebration and will feature a grand group reading: 25 Writers/25 Years. Though we have an active soiree committee, we could still use more volunteers to work the event. Any one in the San Francisco Bay area free any time from noon to 10 p.m. that day? We'll be having a soiree committee meeting this Saturday, September 18 at 1 p.m., which all potential volunteers are invited to (backchannel me, Kevin Killian, for details). But you don't have to go to the meeting to be a volunteer. Indulge your passion for backstage drama! You'll see it'll be a lot of fun! This includes all of you around the world who will be visiting San Francisco the weekend of October 2. Just because you're a tourist doesn't mean you can't roll up your shirt sleeves and chip in. Thanks everyone. ... I'm waiting . . . xxx Kevin K. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:20:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: e. timor, s. korea, afghanistan, kuwait, iraq, panama, / Ike Kim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had to reformat this message. Please remember that HTML-formatted text should not be sent to the Poetics List. Chris -- From: "Ike Kim" Subject: Re: e. timor, s. korea, afghanistan, kuwait, iraq, panama, grenada, puerto rico, etc. Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 02:05:00 -0400 "...the US Govt is far, far more stupid than malevolent. It requires = planning and skill to be intentionally malevolent." -Michael Neff Sept 14, 1999 Remember that old Saturday Night Live skit, where Phil Hartman plays R. = Reagan? He acts stupid and forgetful in front of the press and his = cabinet and then, when they all leave, he says "Finally, I'm alone!" = then picks up two phones, starts dialing numbers and speaking russian = and french. It's funny stuff. Improbably, right? I mean, politicians aren't bad = people, motivated by money and the power it represents, right? They're = well meaning folks like you and me, from rich families, good schools, = proper contacts etc... There is a definite desire NOT to believe what is happening is because = of the US. Remember the US is now the "policeman of the world" and all = that entails, incl. setting the rules of the game. otherwise, without = rules, what else is there to police? we want to think that iraq was = about saving Kurds-that's what we were told-but why were we letting them = die in the south while supposedly protecting them in the north (or vice = verse, it's too hard to keep track-my scorecard is full)? It is = acknowledged that the CIA trained kurds in the north for years before = the US decided to bomb. and they weren't learning how to build shelter = for refugees, or farm, or build industry. it seems to me that history has proven a fair barometer to the = relationship between what is stated at times of conflict and what is = fact. war is often a time of lies. it is a key part of building defense = for a nation's defenseless activities. in smaller terms, remember the = president's council on race (did i get the name of that thing right?)? = all of these big shots went parading around the country trying to = prove/defend the position that the crisis in american society was one of = race. at each stop, the folks in the audience were pretty clear on = pointing out that economics were at hand.=20 The US gov. is having trouble defending itself in front of the world. = and they know the folks at home don't like all of these wars and all of = the fako-half truths they're given as causes/reasons. enter australia. = fodder. poor australia. they'll take some global heat for a change. = after all, they got the damned olympics (which, by the way i believe = should be held in buffalo--to revitalize the economy! more sports = stadiums=3Dbetter quality of life after all (just ask the Admin. at the = U of Buffalo)). where are the people of australia? The press (the = state?) is hawkish. here's how one paper puts it: All dressed up, only one place to go 16sep99 The Australian=20 THEY want very badly to go. The orders are through and adrenaline is = running through the platoons. They know who among them will go in first. = They do not think in terms of the plight of East Timor - they want to be = what they have trained to be. turn off brain. obey orders. they are well trained indeed. -- From Reuters, via NYT: DARWIN, Australia (Reuters) - Australia's defense force chief warned = Thursday that the U.N. mission to restore order in East Timor would be = ``tough'' and the force would take a firm stance if Indonesian forces = failed to cooperate.=20 ``If we don't get the cooperation we need we will end up having to make = this a tough military operation and that will be a tough challenge, but = as I said earlier we are ready to take this challenge,'' Admiral Chris = Barrie told reporters in Darwin.=20 Barrie said the timetable for deployment of the multinational troop = force, expected this weekend, was not yet finalized.=20 ``We will deliver on this mission, so let there be no doubt,'' said = Barrie, referring to the U.N. mandate to use ``all necessary measures'' = to stop an orgy of killing by pro-Indonesia militia in East Timor.=20 -- one gets the sense that the refugees are secondary now. indonesia, here = we come! we will fix you and then give you back to you, properly cleaned = up and functional-just put this guy, no this guy, in power and we'll = give ya tons of cash. wink. wink. until we don't like him, that is. = wink. kiss. hug. shake. Because we don't believe something is possible is not enough reason for = its dismissal. Conspiracy Theory has been thrown around to circumvent = the discussion of what forces motivate and enact events. JFK is a good = example. and it is quite evident that this line of propaganda (i think = Conspiracy Theory is now an actual field of study at most public = universities!) has succeeding in removing = discussion/analysis/identification of phenomena from our society. after = all, without identification there is little chance that action will be = informed, will succeed. we know that the auto industry went city to city = and sold cheap busses if the cities agreed to lose the trolleys, they = pushed for massive road building, etc. there are plenty of things to = learn from history. we don't have any more time to learn from history! = it is happening around us every moment. It is fact that indonesia is a strategic location for the movement of = capital, commerce, goods, etc to/from the far east. even npr admits it. = does this have a role in why the US (UN?) is so interested in the area? = stabilization, as a policy for global intervention, proposes that = unbalanced things shall be balanced. who/what's on the see-saw? The NSA creates an annual "Top Ten" list in which they identify "problem = areas" or "threats." Past and present favorites include Iraq, N. Korea, = Cuba, China, Iran. It's like a to-do list! we'd like to think that there is a mess of local political stuff going = on in the sublayers of the why-this-is-happening, and there may be some, = but this is another one of those "you will never understand what is = going on and leave it to the experts; here, read this _everything for = dummies_ book while you sit quietly" diversions. like Yugoslavia and the = appearance of strange ancient texts in the forefront of discussion. this = all after the opinion polls proved the more simple, but somewhat dulled, = line of saving refugees went south (well, since we blew up the busses = filled with those we were "helping"). is my timeline messed up? the = point is the same. anyway, 'spontaneous' psychotic group behavior is a reflection of/ = reaction to the state of a society, or the state of the people of a = state. Chicago 1968. Black Panthers. AIM. Born of nothing? the best = thing for the world is to fix america-ground up. that would ease a lot = of suffering. ours included. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:15:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! In-Reply-To: <37DED7B1.28F5D779@webdelsol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's an easy one to consider: in rural places everyone owns a machete--self-defense by a majority with machetes is easy and affordable. Where there's a modern army one side's machetes are backed by guns. Whoever supplies the guns and trains the troops is a necessary enabler. This isn't novel. A lot of extremely poor countries have bloated militaries that pull all the strings because one superpower or another thought they should. At 07:18 PM 9/14/99 -0400, you wrote: >I'm not an expert on East Timor/Indonesian politics and don't claim to be. I am >commenting specifically on attempts to directly link the US govt (parties, >individuals, policies, some combo thereof) and specific actions or inactions on >its part to these current manifestations of acute human barbarism. At worst/best >then, we are "enabling" to some degree that cannot be measured. However, can one >state for certainty that US "involvement" was *necessary* to provoke the killing >fields in this case? > >In other words, must the US be a factor in enabling socio-psychotic behavior >(documented throughout history beginning with the Assyrians most notably?) or can >it take place independent of the US? And if we admit it can take place >independent of the US, or has taken place independent of the US, or will take >place independent of the US, can we state with certainty that this particular >plague demands US "enabling" behavior? > >Or could it have happened anyway? > >Are there forces, cultures, history, hatreds inherent to the land there that play >a factor? That might even dwarf or render any US enabling inconsequential? > >Back to my point about the machetes. These were not funded by the US govt. Arms >or not, they have enough arms left to kill. As far as these other tragic >situations around the globe, are we responsible, enabling all those too, perhaps >because we cannot play our role as global policeman too well? I'm perplexed. >Perhaps this is exactly why we shouldn't be global policemen. Too much blame, too >easy to fault? > > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > >> We didn't "cause" it, but we've certainly been an enabling factor: we have >> registered little complaint when East Timor was annexed and its people >> slaughtered (some 200,000) of them over the years, ditto the situation in >> Irian Jaya, ditto the slaughter of ethnic Chinese. Instead, we have >> consistently stroked the Indonesian govt for being anticommunist, and that >> stroking has taken the form of ytraining and supplying their military, >> contributing greatly to its ability to overwhelm the rest of govt. >> >> At 01:14 PM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >> >Pete, >> > >> >Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this >> line of >> >accusation. I need to be clear. >> > >> >Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the >> >Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, >> hacking >> >them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if >> their >> >govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This >> >sounds naive to the point of absurdity. >> > >> >I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest >> >going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and >> then the >> >slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for >> >me? I don't see it from what you are saying. >> > >> >Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those who >> >believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck >> their >> >barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. >> > >> >And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South >> >Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we send >> >overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the >> >diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac >> (sp?) in >> >Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do >> the >> >same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the >> murdering >> >we see now? >> > >> >I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time >> line >> >me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or >> Moynihan or >> >Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the >> >genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to >> >other large groups of people. >> > >> >Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. >> > >> >Mike >> > >> > >> >pete spence wrote: >> > >> >> please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest >> >> to:indonesia@un.int >> >> president@whitehouse.gov >> >> a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au >> >> thanks pete spence >> >> >> >> speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just >> >> >as good >> >> >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing >> role in >> >> >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American >> >> >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and >> >> >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous >> >> >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the >> >> >chaotic >> >> >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential >> >> >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the >> >> >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone >> >> >else >> >> >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by >> >> >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian >> >> >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military >> >> >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original >> >> >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking >> >> >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain >> >> >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think they >> >> >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of the >> >> >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. >> >> > >> >> >http://www.freetimor.com/ >> >> > >> >> >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html >> >> > >> >> >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ >> >> > >> >> >http://www.etan.org/ >> >> > >> >> >regards, >> >> >Patrick Herron >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the >> >> >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a >> >> >better >> >> >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int >> >> > >> >> >thanks pete spence >> >> > >> >> >______________________________________________________ >> >> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >> > >> >> >______________________________________________________ >> >> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > >> >-- >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >================================ >> >Web Del Sol >> >http://webdelsol.com >> >LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW >> > >> > > >-- > > > > >================================ >Web Del Sol >http://webdelsol.com >LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:25:53 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Bunting in Persia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm not trying to deflect the worthwhile political drift of the List here, but I've always wondered just what Basil Bunting was doing in Iran as a British spy. My Hutchinson Encyclopeda says: "During World War II, Iran was occupied by British, US, and Soviet troops until 1946. Anti-British and anti-American feeling grew and in 1951 the newly elected prime minister, Dr Muhammad Mossadeq, obtained legislative approval for the nationalilzation of Iran's largely foreign-owned petroleum industry. With US connivance, he was deposed in a 1953 coup and the dispute over nationalisation was settled the following year when oil-drilling concessions were granted to a consortium of eight companies. " Basil? Basil? -- John Tranter, editor, Jacket magazine from John Tranter, 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html Homepage: five megabytes of glittering literature, free, at http://www.alm.aust.com/~tranterj/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:17:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thurmon Manson Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I defy you to name a single situation involving popular movement overthrow or bud-nippage in which there's been no CIA involvement, or any regime oppressiveness, be it in Turkey, Central America, South America (currently most "addressed" in corporate media is Colombia: CIA and DEA don't like the FARC because they going to take some American/Col Military $!!!), Haiti, Indonesia, Oakland, ad infi, not EXPLICITLY either 1) funded in total 2) funded intellectually 3) endorsed 4) propped by economic threat by the Pentagon CIA White House or, mightier than each aforesaid, the ten or whatever major US corporations. I wager that the White House has "decided to act" in East Timor finally not because of public pressure, but because to not do so means to risk losing some of its control there. France could get angry enough and via UN send in a force, adn there would France be now in our Indonesia! Also very related: to research what firms are in and controlling parties in what is called Indonesia, though not appearing as often in corporate media: EXXON the paramount, and many others. Follow the money as the woman at aol.com wrote. Wiranto is a puppet of the Dept of Defense, whose officials have been tracking E TImor events hourly since roughly 1975 and in other guises previous to it. I spoke to a deskie in Cohen's office, whose govt chip made him repeat, after each of my statements SPEAK UP SIR I CANNOT HEAR YOU until I was shouting and he was repeating those words, at which point I had to scream TELL SEC COHEN I SAID FUCK YOU!!! To the web de sol correspondent: it's not a sin to be incredulous, I would've been too at your age. Noam Chomsky constantly repeats anecdotes of his run-ins with those balkers at anything smacking of "conspiracy theory"--unfortunately it is only a minority, frightened yet in touch and awesome, that sees no dramatization in the Smoking Man's cabal in xFiles, it's called G7 World Bank IMF LockMartin etc, and very much the entity and entities that have most what is called power but really is influence in world "politics" i.e. economic raping and freemarketing. Read I Don't Have Any Paper So Shut Up by Bruce Andrews for the manner of thought and impulse of those motherfuckers, he nails it so excellently Today even the the editor of The Ecologist (UK), everybody knows of it since being beat around by Monsanto circa the publication of its Monsanto Issue; the editor was asked, but is Mr Monsanto, I forget the CEO's named, Robert ?, Is Mr. Monsanto really a bad person or just part of a monstrous entity? And Ecologist editor replied like, Oh that's an important good question, and the unspoken (as such) point of his response was: yes he is an awful evil motherfucker! Don't let's never get spiritual and wonder after the souls of these kind, Cohen, Hurwitz, a hundred more: kill them! "Some people should die, that's just unconscious knowledge" per Jane's Addiction, although to profess strong beliefs like this will get you booted from an academic or arts scene or whatever; but I come to find that the people I seldom find but respect most share opinions along that line. Before I send this I'll point out that if Florida or Kansas or California or any state in US wanted independence from US a la E Timor from Indonesia (and each of the 50 have the right! and reason) the military, the FBI, "local law enforcement" CIA etc, altogether would instantly descend upon that state and beginning destroying anybody active in that ceding or whatever it woul dbe called. Maybe not with pedestrian machetes: no with propaganda first then torture and wicked bullshit devised by professional govt sadists at labs and manufacturers across our great states. So before going off about "brutes" in Indonesian-backed TImorese militias, think of your Uncle Jack semper fi, or that cop across the block: they'd been scalping your head in flash if you were part of genuine American independence movement. CF L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E's reception, even, by mainstream artists or critics. CF W A C O __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:23:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Montreal and Oslo URLs - Nekyia, Hyde/Sumner / Sumner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit had to reformat. Chris -- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:37:53 +0800 Subject: Montreal and Oslo URLs - Nekyia, Hyde/Sumner From: "Alaric Sumner" Nekyia (speaker, singer, electroacoustics, projected video) Joseph Hyde and Alaric Sumner Montreal: 21 September Champlibre: 4. Manifestation Internationales Vid=E9o et Art Electronique (September 20-27, 1999) or (under construction (16 Sept 99)) Nekyia study (speaker, electroacoustics) Oslo: 9 October, 12 noon Ultima Festival of Contemporary Music ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:20:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: US/Indonesia: I CAN'T Believe it! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are my closing arguments and observations regarding the violence in Indonesia: Restating for the final time, my original point: the macro politic and conspiracy models presented here in various forms and containing various actors, all designed to explain and assign responsibility to the psychotic group behaviors ongoing in Indonesia for a very long time, are inadequate. In some ways they are superfluous, and in other ways peripheral. Facts are mixed with fiction and assumption. But they all have the same avowed goal, to heap America with blame for the killings. Every iota of energy is dedicated to making the US govt, whether Kissinger or NSA or whoever, or some American entity or official or some combination thereof directly responsible for the massacres. Two of the more "persuasive" arguments for making the US responsible for the many years of carnage are as follows. The US defeated a UN resolution at some point in time which would have sanctioned or somehow prevented Indonesia from conducting the slaughter campaigns. This idea that the UN could have prevented the violence with a resolution of any kind is at once laughable and pathetic. Since when do dictators and police squads and fanatics forgo hostilities as soon as the UN wags a finger at them? The UN can place troops on the ground and be so hamstrung by bureaucracy, cowardice, and politics that the offenders can feel free to kill right before the eyes of UN officers! The second argument goes, the US trained elements of the Indonesian army, elements of the Indonesian army slaughter people, ergo, the US is responsible. This is the same as saying, a police academy trains police, some of them use their skills and position to commit crimes, ergo the police academy is responsible. But this is absurd. For example, when cops are arrested for drug dealing, shakedowns, brutality, etc. in New Orleans, NY, or DC, does a cry go up for the heads of police academy officials? NO, the cops are responsible and they must pay. This is an important point: PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY MUST LIE WITH THOSE WHO ARE DIRECTLY ENGAGED IN THE ATROCITIES, those pulling the triggers, wielding the machetes. How can it be otherwise? Eichman didn't get off, and neither did other Nazis after WW II. They were culpable. Again, this is not to say that US hasn't stupidly and unethically played a role in training elements of the Indonesian military (witness what the homicidal maniacs in Guatemala do with their training). But back to the main point, trained by US or not, the theater of conflict and hatred and the means to kill exist regardless. Savac in Iran would have existed in one form or another regardless of American money to the Shah or any number of military advisors and CIA cretins skulking about, because the social and political conditions which made Savac a force existed independent of the US! In other words, there are other factors, other models which more closely explain the group behaviors in these theaters of conflict. I'm willing to bet that if you delved deeply into Indonesian society, local politics, regional social orders, etc. you would find a complex of animosities, violent history, perhaps even tribe-like blood feuds, and more that go towards explaining the situation, perhaps even making the US "involvement" seem in the final analysis largely irrelevant. Then you have the corruption of the Indonesian govt, army corruption, a complex of ambitions, power struggles, etc. All these must be factored in. In other words, the macro models presented so far are too simplistic to explain the repeated violence. In general, and regardless of my original point, it is evident to me from the some of the posts here and backchannel communications to me of a vitriolic nature, that fanaticism can cloud judgement, and that errors of logic are being made, not to mention utterly subjective interpretations of historical facts and outright falsehoods. Much of the "evidence" can be debated or at least treated with a skeptical eye, e.g., the article by the reporter who claims to have seen a classified cable sent to Pacific Command and who speaks to unknown gov officials who are leaking to him. Perhaps there is some Pulitzer seeking here, and perhaps it is all true, but skepticism should be exercised. Hypocrisy can become evident at such time those who profess the media is part of the conspiracy then turn around and accept a national media source as gospel as soon as it fits in with their predisposition. There are at least three different versions which attempt to prove to me (regardless of the real point I was attempting to make) that America is responsible for the years of killing fests in Indonesia (and even elsewhere!). These individuals should get together and compare notes, get it straight. Either Chevron or the Pacific Command or Kissinger or the NSA or whoever is the main culprit; and then all the house of card assumptions that go along to make a whopping good and fun conspiracy theory. These individuals have events unfolding differently, posit competing reasons for the same behavior on the part of the militias, various American entities behind the scenes, etc., but like fanatics of competing religions, they accept the existence of one God, or in this case, one Satan America. As far as accepting on face value what conspiracy theorists say relative to blaming America for the many years of pogrom-like rages and methodical brutality, that proves impossible, for given the level of fanaticism as evidenced by backchannel communications to me laced with scathing insults and generally embittered ego mania (e.g., I'm a lazy ass idiot, ugly mouthed, an embarassment, neanderthal, and equal to a state dept hack)--and all erupting on me in quite sudden and uncalled for fashion--one cannot help but conclude that like true zealots, these maze-brained individuals will only seek out and report on those sources of information most likely to confirm their viewpoint. In other words, they are too religious to be credible, having erected their own gods and belief system which sustains them. Pavlovian leftism, or rightism, the behavior is always the same and credibility is dashed. Even if a grain of truth is present, it is submerged in twaddle and invective. These are the same people who argue that Marxism is a credible political alternative and that the shout of freedom heared in eastern Europe many years ago was nothing but a CIA manipulation. They only have one drum and they bang it continuously while chanting America is Evil, America is Evil, thereby seeking the solace of moral high ground and community forever lost to them in the sixties. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:25:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Naming Names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This, from "Moving Gently on East Timor," an article by Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman, housed at Z Magazine's website: http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/Timor/mokweiseast_timor.htm Should go some way toward addressing the question "Who stood (and stands) to gain?" From the most immediate perspective, confined to East Timor only, the oil companies named below would probably emerge as the largest investment interests, in terms of their speculating on the value of the oil deposits in the Timor Gap. ----------------------------- "We have myriad interests" in Indonesia, explained State Department spokesperson Jaime Rubin in one of his daily briefings, "and what our job is is to try to balance those various interests." Others in the government and chattering class, such as Eleanor Clift of Newsweek, echoed this basic sentiment. The United States should be "realistic" in setting its policy on East Timor, they urged, noting the multiple U.S. "interests" in Indonesia and the importance of promoting "stability." Since the prescription was to balance these "interests" in "stability" against the lives of the Timorese, it is worth identifying what they are. "We have a business interest," said Rubin in identifying competing U.S. interests in Indonesia. That is, the U.S. government wants to protect U.S. investments in Indonesia -- Nike's subcontractor factories, the mines of Freeport McMoRan, the oil drilling of Texaco, Chevron and Mobil. Strong diplomatic pressure on Indonesia might conceivably have led to the revocation of concessions and privileges for U.S. corporations, worried the practitioners of realpolitik. Worse, from this point of view, was the possibility that support for the Timorese will somehow flare up Indonesian separatist movements in Aceh (where Mobil is heavily invested) and Irian Jaya (where Freeport McMoRan runs the world's largest gold mine). A broader U.S. business interest was in maintaining the flow of IMF and World Bank money to Indonesia, so the country maintains its commitment to the "structural adjustment" policies which require it to remove restrictions on foreign investment, further orient its economy to exports, privatize government enterprises and cut subsidies to the poor. Additionally, given the precarious state of the Indonesian economy, and the success of the IMF in deepening Indonesian dependence on foreign money flows, a sudden cut off of IMF and Bank monies might in fact send a harmful shock to the economy (whatever the long-run benefits of severing ties with the international financial institutions). The announced cut off of funds is actually a suspension of future monies not yet allocated, and is only temporary, so the feared effect on the international markets has been muted. Of course, it would be misleading to say the U.S. government was slow to act in Indonesia/East Timor only because it wanted to protect Nike and other U.S. multinationals. In addition to the commercial and broader economic stability issues, the U.S. foreign policy and military establishments attach great geopolitical importance to maintaining good ties with the Indonesian government and especially the Indonesian military (viewed as a counterweight to China and a dependable regional ally). -------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:24:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: alternative irish poetry distribution / Mills MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit had to reformat. Chris -- From: "Mills, Billy" Subject: FW: alternative irish poetry distribution Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:35:55 +0100 > Hi > > If anyone's interested, the latest version of our distribution list is > ready, and I can mail it to you as an attachment, or post it to you on > real paper, in a real envelope, to a real address. > > Billy > > hardPressed poetry > > Alternative Irish poetry publishing and distribution > > 1 Greenview Court > The Fairways > Monaleen Road > Castletroy > Co. Limerick > Ireland > > (00 353 61) 33 54 93 > > bmills@netg.ie > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:54:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Perhaps only when someone bursts the bubble of the New Model Poetics Army >do we get down to actually conversing with each other. My guess is, it's >less likely that Mike Neff doubts the complicity of the US in evil deeds >than that he found the assumption of privilege regarding "the real story" >to be unwarranted. I guess it's too much to ask of the medium that we not >post initially in haste. But it's heartening to see this thread become an >exchange not a flame war. Brian Lennon Good point Brian. The philosophical position I take is that there are indeed features of the world that we can communicate to each other, that there may be facts about the world, that facts are possible. It seems the word "fact" is somewhat of a curse word these days. that's OK, though I am politically suspect of such a philosophical position. (Well, OK, I am suspect of both positions, actually, b/c just as a person can use "truth" as a banner to harm people, others can use the banner of "no such thing as truth" to the very same harmful end.) I do find it wise to believe there are many viewpoints and mental constructions in the world, and I also find it wise to question the very possibility of a "true" metaphysic, or metaphysics itself. However, if I see people manipulating other people with certain exploitative intentions and those intended events happen, I find it hard to admit that such facts about the perceived causality are inadmissible or unprivileged. they are privileged, perhaps in terms of their possibility. And I believe that perceptions frequently overlap and have commonalities. (I have to take such a notion on faith alone, as there is no way to even verify even the existence of other minds.) There are facts / is knowledge about the world, perhaps constructed of these overlapping perceptions, perhaps resulting from an actual ultimate reality, (that's not for our minds to really know) and language often comes up short trying to encapsulate and relate those ideas flawlessly. I also believe we can still try to approximate accuracy. Call me naive, or a platonist, or something else. It's OK, I've heard it before. As for this army you mention, i don't know what you mean. I post in haste sometimes, as what is happening is very upsetting. people are being slaughtered by the thousands, and i initially knee-jerk into a reaction that says, "how or why would you say this is not the real story"? If I flamed, i apologize. I'm not exactly a diplomat. But it did seem he actually questioned the very idea that there was anything going on beyond what we hear and read in the major US media, that there is a better model, beyond what we just perceive from listening to NPR, for instance. But perhaps then there's no "real story" about what Mike was saying. ;) regardless, I pass no judgment, cast no aspersions on Mike, by any stretch. : P Patrick Herron ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:59:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: supporting murder In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990915100232.009bfbe0@po7.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is on target...and an important point. If you go over US coverage over the years, the media first refused to pay ANY attention, after the invastion and occupation. To a very large extent, it was Chomsky who forced the US intellectual and media sturctures to finally begin to acknowledge the existence of E. Timor..(and that took many years). altho they did not acknowledge his main point: the US is squarely responsible for the crimes there..... THEN after a few years with some coverage, all the networks and wire services and the NYT began using the term "separatist"-- in effect makng clear thru their decisions about language that they endorsed the legitimacy of the savage occupation. Mp On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, daniel bouchard wrote: > | And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South > | Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? > > > "... while the East Timorese independence movement is commonly called > 'separatist,' that makes as much sense as calling the French resistance to > the Nazi occupation > 'separatist')..." > > > listening? > > See > for details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Daniel Bouchard > The MIT Press Journals > Five Cambridge Center > Cambridge, MA 02142 > > bouchard@mit.edu > phone: 617.258.0588 > fax: 617.258.5028 > >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:19:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This isn't my point. We're off track. My comments were directed to this statement by Peter Spence: "It may also be just as good and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese." That was my statement, not Pete's. He excerpted an e-mail I sent him. >The words "ongoing role in the slaughter and oppression" makes me think >that like Nazis in the Ukraine, we are there with a policy which places >active operatives in the field who are promoting and directing hacking >gangs, resident psychos, and Indonesian army units to slaughters, rapine, >burnings, church massacres, etc. etc. etc. then the words had their intended effect. >US doesn't have to grant imprimatur to any dictator to begin slaughter, >forced relocations, tortures, etc. This kind of thing happens all the time >and is happening in other places and climes without imprimaturs. Yeah, but no one said anything to the contrary. No one said it's always the US's fault. So I don't know if you're arguing with anyone here. >The dictator, the state is imprimatur in of itself and always has been, an >arrogance which breeds intolerance at best and secret police mechanisms at >worst. Such bodies and culture require no Madeline Albright, Kissinger, >Ford, or whoever to lend them authority to oppress. So what? I can safely say that if the US didn't do this shit the genocide probably wouldn't have happened. The US is not required for genocide. The British can do it, the French, the Dutch, the Belgians, the Indonesians, the Brazilians, and so on, can all cause genocide. No one here is arguing with that. However, keep in mind most of the Nazis in the Gehlen Org found safe haven in employment with the US (CIA, mostly) after WWII and their legacy has a profound effect on what happens when the US is involved. And unfortunately the US has had a hand in most genocides since WWII. Some say that's the price for power or for protecting American "freedom;" some say it's necessary to preserve or increase wealth. >It's happened many times before, and will again. Yes, sad but true. : p Patrick Herron Taylor Brady wrote: > A few points: > > 1) Kissinger's "visit" was considerably more instrumental than the > "chat-and-tea" image might otherwise conjure one to believe. It was rather, > the U.S. State Department's imprimatur and guarantee of military assistance > to a regime embarked on a series of "policy initiatives" which included, > most notably, a) the slaughter and forced relocation of much of its own > peasantry, labor leaders and movement members, intellectuals, etc., in the > name of a defense against communism; and b) the invasion and annexation of > Timor, resulting in a brutal occupation which left nearly a quarter of a > million dead. This, while the U.S. (among others - recently, the role of > Japan and Australia would also bear some scrutiny) continued (and continues, > notwithstanding Clinton's half-assed "retraction of assistance") to provide > the proverbial "military, technical and economic aid" to the Indonesian > regime. This isn't a matter of having bought arms years ago, but one of > receiving - until this week, and that only if Clinton's retraction is to > taken at face value - ongoing direct support from the U.S. and other > armaments-producing nations. Thus, while the machetes might be a domestic > industry in Indonesia, the rifles, troop transport vehicles, paramilitary > training, etc., most certainly are not. This aid has been continued under > recent administrations with the rationalization that it's the Indonesian > military itself that can be counted on to bring the militias back into line. > For the sheer ridiculousness of this claim, if one still needs it > substantiated, one might turn to Alan Nairn's recent reports on Pacifica > Radio, detailing the intimate relationship between the army and the > militias. But other sources are many and well-documented. If you have web > access, you might take a look at the East Timor Action Network's web site: > www.etan.org > 2) The above would seem to have some bearing on your assertion that East > Timor is attempting to "secede" from a legitimate national government - > which is simply not the case. East Timor, as an Indonesian territory, is the > result of a forcible annexation sponsored by U.S. and other interests. Many > of the key figures in the initial "sponsorship" remain in positions of power > today. In other words, this is about as far from a quixotic attempt to > rectify a distant and tragic "other-people's" history as you can get. > 3) You ask: "We turned the other way on Savac we see now (sp?) in Iran, > though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the > same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the > murdering we see now?" Yes. Absolutely. As I've pointed out, this isn't > simply a case of turning the other way, but a direct outgrowth of deliberate > policies of military and economic support pursued by the U.S., Japan and > other militarized nations. And although the point has now been reached at > which the killings more than likely cannot be stopped without some sort of > direct intervention, the extreme probability was, until quite recently, that > the Indonesian regime simply could not have pursued its policies of > aggression without the direct support of the U.S. and its allies - that, in > other words, the annexation itself would have been unfeasible and > unsustainable without that aid. Until very recently, a cut-off of such > support might have sufficed to avert the campaign of terror now being > pursued. There is no "genocidal gene" - and such pseudo-explanations > ("they're just nuts _over there_, who can understand their motivations?"), > I'd warrant, most often mark the site of a real and determinate chain of > events, the complicity of one's own nation in which is precisely what the > resort to racialized typologies attempts to obscure. > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Michael Neff > Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 10:15 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > > Pete, > > Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this > line of > accusation. I need to be clear. > > Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the > Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, > hacking > them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if > their > govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This > sounds naive to the point of absurdity. > > I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest > going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and then > the > slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it for > me? I don't see it from what you are saying. > > Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those > who > believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck > their > barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. > > And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South > Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we send > overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the > diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac > (sp?) in > Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do > the > same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the > murdering > we see now? > > I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time > line > me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or > Moynihan or > Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the > genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to > other large groups of people. > > Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. > > Mike > > pete spence wrote: > > > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > > to:indonesia@un.int > > president@whitehouse.gov > > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > > thanks pete spence > > > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > > >as good > > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role > in > > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, and > > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > > >chaotic > > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > > >else > > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit by > > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. Certain > > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think > they > > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of > the > > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > > > >regards, > > >Patrick Herron > > > > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > > >better > > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > > > >thanks pete spence > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > -- > > ================================ > Web Del Sol > http://webdelsol.com > LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW -- ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:30:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Imagining Language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } i assume there must be some portion of you out there whove got this book _imagining language_ that rasula and mccaffery edited ? has anyone seen a review of anywhere ? it sits on my dining room table and as i have breakfast or lunch or dinner i open it and the food gets cool (if hot) or warm (if cold) it was expensive as hell but not inappropriately expensive i dont think ----- point is that its just fucking amazing and if you (yeah, you *general* without me knowing squat about you singular, individual) havent seen it you really ought to (again, "ought" is a bit fishy i know but once youve had some leisure with this book i think you'll agree, and if you don't it may be that we wdnt be able to communicate very effectively anyway) this is not a review i cant really imagine an adequate review jerome rothenberg cd perhaps handle it his anthologies are the only things that this book seems comparable to )L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:03:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I'm just saying I'm hearing some familiar themes here. I don't always implicate oil companies. I've been tired of such explanations, too. But these things (E Timor, Congo, Iraq, Kosovo) are consistently about natural resources. And the US is not the only player in these arenas. >I'll tell you emphatically that I do *not* get my news from CNN, NBC, etc. During the Kosovo crisis, e.g., I watched far more interesting French coverage (they even interviewed a British officer). I apologize if I insinuated that you were restricted to CNN. It's good to use foreign press, and always good to use your own noggin. And if you have inside info, that's even better. >First, and again, I have been hearing oil company/USGovt/etc theories to >explain a wide spectrum of antisocial behaviors around the earth and I >don't always buy it, and I'm not totally buying it now, IN THE CONTEXT OF >the homicidal group behavior there. Is the model sufficient for the behavior there? No, I agree. Necessary? In the case of E. timor, maybe. Maybe, though, many people CAN be right about basic things. I do not believe that majority opinions are prima facie false. And these are hardly majority opinions. >Occam's Razor, the Japan/US/NBC/Chevron formal or informal infrastructure >of conspiracy is not necessary to explain the rampaging militia and >military. You can say that, but I disagree. >Second, I become suspicious when explanations of group/national/tribe >behaviors, esp pronounced psychotic ones on such a grand and incredibly savage scale, don't include local culture, socio-psych, or other factors to account for them. Sure, and you're right to become suspicious. everyone can build upon what I said, and add to the model, but to throw away what I said and replace it with a psychosocial perspective is hardly constructive. >Surely, there is a synergy here, a harmonious convergence of psychotic >gravities which should be noted and divulged. This harping on the US, oil >companies, Japan, macro international political models, etc. don't serve to >explain the killer hysteria and frenzy. Not completely, as in they are not sufficient, but they are necessary. Have you ever read the counterinsurgency manuals from the CIA? they employ their extensive knowedge in the areas of study you mention to reach certain ends. People do pay for and train mercenary armies, and mercenary armies that are paid for by certain groups are clearly responsible for what has transpired in the past week or so. >Believe me Patrick, the US Govt is far, far more stupid than malevolent. And again, I think you are wrong. Actually, I know this is wrong. There are people in the government much more intelligent than you or me. And they plan, they know about contingencies, it's their lives. Me, I'm just farting around on a keyboard. They often do things and call them mistakes, because it fools us into a comfortable position of superiority, albeit poorly founded. >I say it goes far deeper than this. These models of yours are insufficient >to explain the group behavior.\ given that it would ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:01:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: listings ? Comments: To: "apg) maryanne del gigante" , bmcgrat@learnlink.emory.edu, cdunne@emory.edu, danalisalustig@hotmail.com, dlustig@dttus.com, jbs@mmmlaw.com, mprejsn@law.emory.edu, mprince33@yahoo.com, ranprunty@aol.com, tedd.mulholland@gte.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain contrary to what we've been told i heard a rumor that the revolution will in fact be televised but as yet the tv guide hasnt announced it and i cant find out anything more surely someone out there knows or know what the website is with premiere week coming up i hope its not going to eat into friends or buffy or anything ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:24:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Eliot Weinberger/Dan Featherston/Cydney Chadwick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who sent snail mails to me. I'm still looking for addresses for Eliot / Dan / Cydney, so if anyone out there has them, I'd appreciate a backchannel. Karen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:33:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: the timid and Timor In-Reply-To: <19990915234342.38539.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i find Joan Houlihan's post a little odd. Why do we need to emphasize the fact that *some* aspects of the E. Timor situation are random? Why is this important, or helpful? I am reminded of the old sawhorse phrase from my college philosophy courses: "true but trivial." However, the various ways in which US foreign policy *is* implicated in that situation, are *not* trivial. Or so i would argue... And just to tie this back in with the primary focus of this listserv, i would point out again that it took years of very hard effort by Chomsky and others, pointing out the corruption and deliberate misuse of language by the US government/media nexus, to force those with power and influence in the US to acknowledge some hard truths about the E. Timor situation... The several people who are crying out so loudly on this list, that the US bears little or no responsibility, have NOT studied the available sources on what happened there and why... --mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:38:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: bunting for a base hit... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990916161955.00a324f0@pop3.zipworld.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Was he there after 1946??? i thought he was only active in intelligence during the bigee (WWII), working against the nasty axis... But of course maybe that's only what i *wanted* to believe... On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, John Tranter wrote: > I'm not trying to deflect the worthwhile political drift of the List here, > but I've always wondered just what Basil Bunting was doing in Iran as a > British spy. > > My Hutchinson Encyclopeda says: > > "During World War II, Iran was occupied by British, US, and Soviet troops > until 1946. Anti-British and anti-American feeling grew and in 1951 the > newly elected prime minister, Dr Muhammad Mossadeq, obtained legislative > approval for the nationalilzation of Iran's largely foreign-owned petroleum > industry. With US connivance, he was deposed in a 1953 coup and the dispute > over nationalisation was settled the following year when oil-drilling > concessions were granted to a consortium of eight companies. " > > Basil? > > Basil? > > > -- John Tranter, editor, Jacket magazine > > > from > John Tranter, 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia > tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 > Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html > Homepage: five megabytes of glittering literature, free, at > http://www.alm.aust.com/~tranterj/index.html > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:40:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: The First Church of J'Accuse The American Satan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Below is a post to another list. (Note: I am the one guilty of pompous and barbaric posts to *this* list.) Also, note this excerpt: "anyone familiar with the history of american adventurism in southeast asia over the past 50 years will automatically assume that whatever happens has happened with the knowledge of the US." I have no doubt of this, knowledge of the US. Well, no kidding. It again misses the point I've been trying to make all along. Rather, fellows like this invent points I never made and then argue with me over them. They have no choice. How can they maintain that the factors I introduce or models I suggest cannot exist? I can't help but perceive that what all this brouhaha and blathering boils down to is this: a lack of strong condemnation and blame vis-a-vis any object/person/policy/organization American, on the part of anyone posting, and one risks ongoing misunderstanding at best, virulent attacks at worst. It isn't enough to admit America plays a role, one must affirm that all evil derives from it. This mindset demands America must have total responsibility or none. They are no grey zones, no additional factors, or competing or alternative ways to explain violent events in other nations. The First Church of J'Accuse The American Satan must triumph and seek to quickly and fiercely quell heretics. No doubt the faithful will rise from their pews and pitchfork themselves into a mob, but so be it. JBCM2@aol.com wrote: > I was also outraged at the fellow on the other list for his pompous, and > therefore barbaric posts, and have had several backchannel exchanges with > him, which have not been fruitful, and which have deteriorated into threats > (him) and snide remarks (me). not an ideal way to go about a dialectic, but > then the ideal is frequently allusive. to excuse complicity just because > it's not direct (who's supplying the machetes, for example) is to become > complicit oneself, just as to deny the efficacy of material one hasn't read > makes one complicit. einstein once referred to nationalism as the measles of > mankind, which seems to me to be right on the money. it's hard to understand > how anyone who considers themselves politically aware could demand (as this > fellow does) that one provide overwhelming proof that the most powerful > nation in the world is not going ruthlessly about what it perceives to be in > its national interest (first and foremost the preservation of regimes > friendly to exploitation of markets), when history shows us, as I've said, > that such ruthlessness is the standard operating procedure. anyone familiar > with the history of american adventurism in southeast asia over the past 50 > years will automatically assume that whatever happens has happened with the > knowledge of the US. if there is any doubt of this regarding East Timor, one > need only to look at the hemming and hawing of official america to see where > it's real support lies. > > I think, by the way, that the responses by many on the buffalo poetics list > (which I've frequently criticized) have been first rate, and if anyone's > interested, I'll post a few of them to this list. > > joe.... > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:52:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Believe me Patrick, the US Govt is far, far more stupid than malevolent. > > And again, I think you are wrong. Actually, I know this is wrong. There > are people in the government much more intelligent than you or me. And they > plan, they know about contingencies, it's their lives. Me, I'm just farting > around on a keyboard. They often do things and call them mistakes, because > it fools us into a comfortable position of superiority, albeit poorly > founded. Oh, no no no, a thousand times no, they are NOT more intelligent than you, or me! Do you think your govt (whatever that really means, NSA? CIA? Congress? West Wing White House) is composed of Zarathustrian supermen? This is one of the key factors to accepting such theories. I happen to know CIA, e.g., exhibits all the characteristics of a dumb bureaucracy living in a denial culture. Bureaucrats in CIA even hide things from each other. The behaviors are astonishing and hysterical. How else to explain the Ames spying success and being caught unawares when communism fell in eastern europe. Agencies fight with each other for control constantly, bureau chiefs fight, their is continuous turmoil and upheaval with these stratifications. But I don't expect you to accept this on face value. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:57:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor In-Reply-To: <37E03A0D.EA303854@webdelsol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Michael: is your point that there's evil in the world? Sure thing, but a conversation-stopper, and not particularly useful as a political statement. Once granted, what's left to discuss but other influences on the eruption in progress? Here's a question: suppose that FDR, instead of deciding about Nicaragua's Samosa that "he's a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch," had decided to make Sandino our vote for a sustainable regime. Suppose, more broadly, he and his successors had decided that it didn't much matter who sold us bananas, the supposed communist threat to US interests (read: United Fruit Company) was a lot less destabilizing than the hypermilitarization of an entire region that previously had barely managed to support a police force. There's never a shortage of intergroup hostilities, and there's never a shortage of sociopaths to exploit them, but they're born that way--some responsibility has to be placed in the hands of those who create the structures that allow the damage to play out at large. At 08:30 PM 9/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >Christina Milletti wrote: > >> In a message dated 9/15/99 9:06:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!, editor@WEBDELSOL.COM >> writes: >> >> << I don't believe that either Patrick, I just think your explanations are >> formula >> in some respects and inadequate to explain the condition of group killing >> psychosis. >> >> >> Why must it be reduced to group psychosis? The murdering gangs are paid. >> They don't kill, they don't eat. Talk about Occam's razor. > >Why? Why indeed? I should have realized there must be a considerable sense of >job well done when they have earned their pay. I'm certain they would never >stoop to disemboweling unless paid to do so! This is all absorbing to me. >Since you are keenly aware of the mechanisms in place, no doubt having first >hand knowledge, I suppose you can reveal whether they are paid by the hour or by >the body or head? > >If they are working for the NSA they deserve a retirement package. > >Course, if they're rampaging as humans are inclined to do from time to time, >then how can it be the fault of US? It therefore stands to reason they must be >paid. > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:08:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carolyn Guertin Subject: Re: hypertext suggestions In-Reply-To: <37E01D1A.89B2D725@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There are many, so many hypertext works on the Web that are really amazing. Check out (in no particular order): Alicia Felberbaum's 'holes-linings-threads: the future looms' (UK) http://www.felber.dircon.co.uk/holesliningsthreads/ Linda Carroli and Josephine Wilson's '*water always writes in *plural' (Australia) http://ensemble.va.com.au/water Tim McLaughlin's '25 Ways to Close a Photograph' (Canada) http://www.knosso.com/NWHQ/tim/tim_25.html Di Ball's 'Bound and Gagged' (Australia) http://smople.thehub.com.au/dibbles/writing/menu.htm DollYoko's 'dollspace...hauntologies' (Australia) http://www.thing.net/~dollyoko/ mez's 'Blood Puppets: A Premillennium Manifesto' (Australia) http://www.wollongong.starway.net.au/~mezandwalt/ Jennifer Ley's 'The Body/Politic' (USA) http://www.heelstone.com/subtext/ Olia Lialina's 'My Boyfriend Came Back From the War' (Russia) http://www.design.ru/olialia/war/ Kim Stringfellow's 'The Charmed Horizon' (USA) http://www.kimstringfellow.com/charm.html Mary Kim Arnold and Matthew Derby's 'Kokura' (USA) http://www.eastgate.com/Kokura/Welcome.html In fact, early next month a women's gallery of hypertext work will be debuting at Women Writers Zine . If you want works considered for inclusion in 'Assemblage: The Gallery' (it will be updated monthly), please let me, the curator, know. Cheers, Carolyn ___________________________________________________ Carolyn Guertin, Department of English, University of Alberta 3-5 Humanities Centre, Edmonton, Alberta T6G 2E5 Canada E-Mail: cguertin@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca; Tel/FAX: 780-438-3125 Website: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:53:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: A Call for a Paper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit had to reformat this one a bit. ----------------------------------------------------- From:rwolff@ANGEL.NET Time: 16 Sep 1999 21:10:57 -0000 Dear Lists, Hi, I'm the editor of Fence, a journal of poetry, fiction, art and criticism. What follows below is a call for a paper: Our explicit intention at Fence is to maintain a kind of deeply curious innocence in matters of literary genealogy: not to avoid opinion, but to publish essays that foster poetic literacy by tracing the development of various issues, schools of thought, and aesthetics surrounding contemporary poetry. Because we are interested in inviting all kinds of readers to the table, the essays we publish are addressed, to a certain extent, to the lay-person, ie, not someone who has already read all the secondary sources. The Poetry Wars are fought, to a great extent, over the idea of subjective experience. For our 6th issue, we are seeking an expository essay of 10-15 ms. pages which traces the development, roots and shoots exposed, of the treatment of the self in poetry, starting sometime in the early 19th century and placing special emphasis on the last fifty years or so. We are looking for someone who can take a relatively non-partisan approach; someone who can drop names left and right, from Coleridge to Olson to Lowell to Hejinian; and someone who is willing to work closely with Fence's editors. If you think you might be interested in writing such an essay, please contact Frances Richard, Fence's non-fiction editor, at frances@angel.net. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:24:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! In-Reply-To: <19990915234342.38539.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ms. Houlihan, I'm aware that this will break my resolve to respond no more, but there's at least one fairly serious misrepresentation of the record and one fairly well-implied personal attack in this. Both, I think, merit an answer. First, the misrepresentation. Mr. Neff's point has not been, to date, "simply the suggestion that the US government (and whatever else we conceive that entity to be,it is still a collection of people with limitations) may not be wholly responsible for what's happening in East Timor." Nor has my point been that the US _is_ solely culpable. Ample mention has been made of the role of the Indonesian military, Japan, Australia. More might be said about Great Britain, and the corporate interests that are, while headquartered mainly in the US, largely independent of any real national governance. For evidence of Mr. Neff's real "point", I attach the following quote from his opening missive on this thread: "I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time line me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or Moynihan or Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires to other large groups of people. Until you do, I'm not writing anyone." What emerges from this line of argument is 1) a denial of ANY U.S. role (a far cry from denying full responsibility); and 2) a denial of the effectivity of any U.S. action (pressure on elected and unelected officials to stop pursuing some particular policy or other) in the present situation. One remembers that the post to which he responded was a call for protest and petition. In effect, what he is doing in the above quote is denying that the US government is the proper target for any such protest, as well as denying that such a protest could have any effect. And for my part, I've never claimed that the US held sole responsibility for atrocities in East Timor over the past twenty-five years. My claim was, rather, that those atrocities could not have happened without U.S. involvement - that such involvement was, in brief, a necessary rather than a sufficient condition. The Indonesian regime since Suharto's rise to power has been a creature of the US military and intelligence "community." This history is well-documented and available for the perusal of skeptical parties. (Unless one takes seriously the desperate ideological retreat into "empiricist" metaphysics - do you really want to claim, in an E-MAIL correspondence, that you only believe in what's before your eyes?). For recent evidence of this dependent attachment, witness the Habibie government's quick decision to allow international troops in as soon as Clinton's rather weakly-worded "temporary suspension" of aid was announced. In other words, in reply to Mr. Neff's most recent questioning whether "dictators and police squads and fanatics forgo hostilities as soon as the UN wags a finger at them," I would point out that Indonesia has always (at least since '65) done exactly that when it's been a question of the _US_ doing the wagging. Indonesia as currently ruled is a client state of the US, Great Britain, and Japan, pure and simple. And despite Mr. Neff's ideological scare tactics in introducing the "world's policeman" threat, this client relationship exists in such a form that, for long-term changes to become effective, what's probably most needed is a cessation of US involvement, rather than a new "commitment of troops" or some such. Our support - precisely - of police tactics up to this point has been the very problem. A lot could be accomplished if our government would simply stop - permanently - doing the criminal things it's been doing in that region. In fact, it would be best for all concerned if any international force sent in for the short term to stop the killings included _no_ US, British, or Australian troops. That this is unlikely to happen is further evidence, to me, that whatever steps are currently being taken are more by way of protecting the bankability of an investment than a commitment to national self-determination and political freedoms. Of course, groups of people have always killed other groups of people. And groups of people have always resisted and spoken out - that's part of what, in my sense of a humanly-liveable world, one understands by the word "history." It's a "made place," to bring in Robert Duncan for a moment. People can act to make it differently, and this despite the red-baiting invective of Mr. Neff's latest. I readily grant that such atrocities have happened under all kinds of conditions and in all kinds of places. My question is, by the same sort of "Occam's Razor" method proposed by Mr. Neff, whether we might be a bit concerned about the statistical preponderance of US investment capital, weapons, and military advisors at the scene of such atrocities during the last fifty years - whether in fact we might examine the verifiable historical record, rather than raise the spectre of some sort of genetic predisposition to murder, and attempt to account for the reasons why the US government has tended to be, in the post-war period "a collection of individuals" whose "limitations" include a pronounced taste for military dictatorship in the so-called Third World. Yes, other people (in this case Indonesians and conscript Timorese) do the killing. One of the privileges of capital is that it affords you the opportunity to contract out such unpleasant "work." And even if we agree that humans as individuals have a certain predilection for evil, we still have to explain why in some cases resources are marshalled to allow that predilection its full "expression," and where those resources come from. My second concern in reading your posting is the accusation of "intolerance" hurled against those who have disagreed with Mr. Neff - an accusation made personal by the address of that posting to me. Let me state simply that it angers and saddens me to see disagreement labeled thus as intolerance. I thought we were having an argument. Apparently I was abridging someone's freedom. You identify yourself as a "liberal" - and that might well be the root of our disagreement on the geopolitical side of things. I've come to believe strongly that American liberalism is a thoroughly inadequate response, not only to the problems of international capital and its involvement in the crushing of independence movements, but even to the day-to-day "domestic" political concerns we all face as citizens, of whatever civic entity in which we participate. So our differing political perspectives lead us to disagree. But in the elaboration of that disagreement, your efforts to attenuate the space of public discourse by casting argument as domination are wholly unworthy, not only of the weight of the argument itself, but even of the "liberal" traditions you bring to it. Taylor Brady P.S. A final response to a message just in, this one from Mr. Neff, containing word of a different sort of intolerance: "As far as accepting on face value what conspiracy theorists say relative to blaming America for the many years of pogrom-like rages and methodical brutality, that proves impossible, for given the level of fanaticism as evidenced by backchannel communications to me laced with scathing insults and generally embittered ego mania (e.g., I'm a lazy ass idiot, ugly mouthed, an embarassment, neanderthal, and equal to a state dept hack)--and all erupting on me in quite sudden and uncalled for fashion-one cannot help but conclude that like true zealots, these maze-brained individuals will only seek out and report on those sources of information most likely to confirm their viewpoint." For the record, I have never participated in any back-channel communication with Mr. Neff. I have no desire to do so, and, while I understand the urge that might have prompted some of the e-mails he alleges, it's hardly a fair tactic - if anyone is listening, I'd urge people to lay off. For Mr. Neff, I'd simply point out that you'll have to disarticulate your critique from your sense of those who disagree with you as "true zealots, these maze-brained individuals," since that description is founded on the evidence of behavior in which at least one of "us" - and a fairly vocal one - has consistently refused to participate. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joan Houlihan Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 4:44 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Taylor, Of all the responses to Mike Neff's e-mail, yours seem to be the best examples of a logic constructed partly on the idea that because events occur together in time, the events are somehow linked causally, and partly on the idea that events which you do not personally witness, or have any special knowledge of, are nonetheless events that you can interpret not only correctly, but also "righteously"--that is, you are able to divine the motivations and moral construction of all those involved, from the beginning of the forced annexation of East Timor to its bloody fight for independence. It's quite amazing to me, a liberal, to see the kind of reaction generated by a clearly written, well-reasoned message (Neff's). What has created this firestorm? Simply the suggestion that the US government (and whatever else we conceive that entity to be,it is still a collection of people with limitations) may not be wholly responsible for what's happening in East Timor. I don't see that Mike Neff was disputing any historical facts, or events leading up to what's happening there--only that he was questioning the idea that these successive events *had* to be linked to either a kind of evil intentionality, or an immoral turning away by the US government. He was instead, and rightly I think, proposing the idea that deeper, and even random, forces are also at work in these situations--not only, but also. That we need to consider the constant recurrence of group hatreds, killings, the human prediliciton for wiping each other out. Nowhere was he suggesting that arms were *not* sold, that US interests were *not* pursued, or that the US often gets behind what turn out to be (or always were) rotten leaders/causes--sometimes in the interest of avoiding worse leaders/causes, or more likely, for simple economic or ideologic reasons. Now that I've seen what comes back from this "radical" idea that the US government may not be the God we can blame, I'm astonished not only by the list's intolerance, but also by the realization that so many liberals have given up their ability to analyze and respond to a clear idea objectively, for the more comfortable idea that there's always clearly someone to blame--if not God, then the government. Joan >From: Taylor Brady >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:53:14 -0700 > >A few points: > >1) Kissinger's "visit" was considerably more instrumental than the >"chat-and-tea" image might otherwise conjure one to believe. It was rather, >the U.S. State Department's imprimatur and guarantee of military assistance >to a regime embarked on a series of "policy initiatives" which included, >most notably, a) the slaughter and forced relocation of much of its own >peasantry, labor leaders and movement members, intellectuals, etc., in the >name of a defense against communism; and b) the invasion and annexation of >Timor, resulting in a brutal occupation which left nearly a quarter of a >million dead. This, while the U.S. (among others - recently, the role of >Japan and Australia would also bear some scrutiny) continued (and >continues, >notwithstanding Clinton's half-assed "retraction of assistance") to provide >the proverbial "military, technical and economic aid" to the Indonesian >regime. This isn't a matter of having bought arms years ago, but one of >receiving - until this week, and that only if Clinton's retraction is to >taken at face value - ongoing direct support from the U.S. and other >armaments-producing nations. Thus, while the machetes might be a domestic >industry in Indonesia, the rifles, troop transport vehicles, paramilitary >training, etc., most certainly are not. This aid has been continued under >recent administrations with the rationalization that it's the Indonesian >military itself that can be counted on to bring the militias back into >line. >For the sheer ridiculousness of this claim, if one still needs it >substantiated, one might turn to Alan Nairn's recent reports on Pacifica >Radio, detailing the intimate relationship between the army and the >militias. But other sources are many and well-documented. If you have web >access, you might take a look at the East Timor Action Network's web site: >www.etan.org >2) The above would seem to have some bearing on your assertion that East >Timor is attempting to "secede" from a legitimate national government - >which is simply not the case. East Timor, as an Indonesian territory, is >the >result of a forcible annexation sponsored by U.S. and other interests. Many >of the key figures in the initial "sponsorship" remain in positions of >power >today. In other words, this is about as far from a quixotic attempt to >rectify a distant and tragic "other-people's" history as you can get. >3) You ask: "We turned the other way on Savac we see now (sp?) in Iran, >though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the >same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the >murdering we see now?" Yes. Absolutely. As I've pointed out, this isn't >simply a case of turning the other way, but a direct outgrowth of >deliberate >policies of military and economic support pursued by the U.S., Japan and >other militarized nations. And although the point has now been reached at >which the killings more than likely cannot be stopped without some sort of >direct intervention, the extreme probability was, until quite recently, >that >the Indonesian regime simply could not have pursued its policies of >aggression without the direct support of the U.S. and its allies - that, in >other words, the annexation itself would have been unfeasible and >unsustainable without that aid. Until very recently, a cut-off of such >support might have sufficed to avert the campaign of terror now being >pursued. There is no "genocidal gene" - and such pseudo-explanations >("they're just nuts _over there_, who can understand their motivations?"), >I'd warrant, most often mark the site of a real and determinate chain of >events, the complicity of one's own nation in which is precisely what the >resort to racialized typologies attempts to obscure. > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] >On Behalf Of Michael Neff >Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 10:15 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > >Pete, > >Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this >line of >accusation. I need to be clear. > >Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the >Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, >hacking >them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if >their >govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? This >sounds naive to the point of absurdity. > >I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage fest >going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and >then >the >slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it >for >me? I don't see it from what you are saying. > >Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those >who >believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck >their >barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. > >And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South >Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we >send >overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness the >diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac >(sp?) in >Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do >the >same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the >murdering >we see now? > >I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time >line >me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or >Moynihan or >Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the >genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires >to >other large groups of people. > >Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. > >Mike > > >pete spence wrote: > > > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > > to:indonesia@un.int > > president@whitehouse.gov > > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > > thanks pete spence > > > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > > >as good > > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing >role >in > > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the American > > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, >and > > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with ambiguous > > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > > >chaotic > > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any potential > > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while everyone > > >else > > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit >by > > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the Indonesian > > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. >Certain > > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think >they > > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts of >the > > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > > > >regards, > > >Patrick Herron > > > > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > > >better > > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > > > >thanks pete spence > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >-- > > > > >================================ >Web Del Sol >http://webdelsol.com >LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:29:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: Imagining Language In-Reply-To: <5D5C5C8C3A41D211893900A024D4B97C880378@md2.facstaff.oglethorpe.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, Yes, I've read a good chunk of it standing up in bookstores - have only just now paid off enough debt to render it affordable, and even so I share your sense that it's not "inappropriately" expensive. Steve has a piece related to some of the research for the book (might actually, be in the book, memory fails me) dealing with the visual mnemonics of medieval illuminated manuscripts that's well worth a look. Anyone know if that's been published anywhere? Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Lowther, John Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 11:31 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Imagining Language { p o e t i x } i assume there must be some portion of you out there whove got this book _imagining language_ that rasula and mccaffery edited ? has anyone seen a review of anywhere ? it sits on my dining room table and as i have breakfast or lunch or dinner i open it and the food gets cool (if hot) or warm (if cold) it was expensive as hell but not inappropriately expensive i dont think ----- point is that its just fucking amazing and if you (yeah, you *general* without me knowing squat about you singular, individual) havent seen it you really ought to (again, "ought" is a bit fishy i know but once youve had some leisure with this book i think you'll agree, and if you don't it may be that we wdnt be able to communicate very effectively anyway) this is not a review i cant really imagine an adequate review jerome rothenberg cd perhaps handle it his anthologies are the only things that this book seems comparable to )L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:04:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: Killer liberals? (was Re: I can't believe it!!!) In-Reply-To: <19990916021701.26098.rocketmail@web1504.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I wonder what lurks beneath Thurmon Manson's "whatever"? I sincerely hope this is hyperbole, or a joke... in any case I'm glad to hear that he has trouble making friends... P.S. Thanks, Patrick, for your response. It's true, as you point out, that skepticism can lead too easily to inertia. A point that Kent Johnson also makes. As for me, I don't think it's naive to believe in truth or the necessity to take action. Last spring, I offended the gods when I questioned the party line on Kosovo: might there be some reason to intervene, to do something besides chant prosthetically, Out Out Out!? Thankfully, I was not heaped with quite the same abuse as came to Mike Neff. But I think that's because he's more cleverly provocative than I am. At some point it becomes an issue of tone. Call me a problem child, but when someone posts assertions in what's obviously a fit of rage (e.g. Albright is a shit! Put Cohen to death! They're all motherfuckers!), no matter whether I agree or not, I'm inclined to distrust what they say. I.e.: The List is not a New Model Army (Cromwell's Parliamentary troops, who fought the Royalists in the English civil war) waiting to march and fight the conservatives to the death--- Thurman Manson's longings notwithstanding. This is a community of people who doubtless COULD run things better--- most of whom feel powerless to influence the institutions that act without our consent. A position that is, of course, enraging. But the only thing that rage accomplishes is to muddy your argument so much that you provoke someone else's rage. Joan Houlihan has said it best so far, I think: in different ways, omnipotence is a fantasy of both the right and the left. What's startling is the ease with which that border dissolves; witness what's below. On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Thurmon Manson wrote: > "Some people should die, that's just unconscious knowledge" per Jane's > Addiction, although to profess strong beliefs like this will get you > booted from an academic or arts scene or whatever; but I come to find > that the people I seldom find but respect most share opinions along > that line. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:17:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: novels of the 60's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ulysses became legal in the thirties -- Tropic of Cancer in, if I remember, the early sixties -- What I do remember is that Tropic was banned in Denver when I lived there, but could be purchased quite legally at the airport, which was then (and now again) outside the legal confines of Denver itself -- Duty Free reading? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:21:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Did anybody else see the video of Wiranto singing "Feelings"? Ranks right up there with the Marcos version of "We Are the World." and what tune is Clinton singing today? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:06:18 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Course, if they're rampaging as humans are inclined to do from time to >time, >then how can it be the fault of US. dunno if really that was the evaluation/ thought it was all sorts make a woeism//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:11:57 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > >| And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support >South > >| Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? > >Uh, East Timor voted to be independent. > >Quebec voted to remain part of Canada. > > > > >George Bowering. > , > yep if there is an example like this in e-timor of being punished for your vote then wake up you who take voting for granted//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:22:32 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >I defy you to name a single situation involving popular movement >overthrow or bud-nippage in which there's been no CIA involvement, or >any regime oppressiveness, be it in Turkey, Central America, South >America (currently most "addressed" in corporate media is Colombia: CIA >and DEA don't like the FARC because they going to take some >American/Col Military $!!!), Haiti, Indonesia, Oakland, ad infi, not >EXPLICITLY either > >1) funded in total >2) funded intellectually >3) endorsed >4) propped by economic threat > >by the Pentagon CIA White House or, mightier than each aforesaid, the >ten or whatever major US corporations. > >I wager that the White House has "decided to act" in East Timor finally >not because of public pressure, but because to not do so means to risk >losing some of its control there. > > W A C O seems reasonable to me!! given i know a bod doing a book on Joris Ivens and the film he was making at the end of the second WW when the Dutch were finally left out, i've seen what reports ASIO and others will allow on the the make of the filmcrew which included us agents and thats a long way back of interest in the region//pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:28:59 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: US/Indonesia: I CAN'T Believe it! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Michael Neff > >There are at least three different versions which attempt to prove to me >(regardless of the real point I was attempting to make) that America is >responsible for the years of killing fests in Indonesia (and even >elsewhere!). These individuals should get together and compare notes, >get it straight MIchael NEff i'm starting to wonder where you are coming from , this doesn't seem the only point thats going on in this discuss, it was NEVER the US alone being blamed i think you may have a wee twinge o' the G's!!! pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:38:48 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Patrick Herron > >This isn't my point. We're off track. My comments were directed to this >statement by Peter Spence: "It may also be just as good and probably easier >to protest the American gov't for their ongoing role in the slaughter and >oppression of the East Timorese." > >That was my statement, not Pete's. He excerpted an e-mail I sent him. > ,,actually i'm sorry that happened it was supposed to go to a friend in germany as some info and i forgot the redirect!!! but when it came up in poetiks and started a discuss i left it,, sorry//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:31:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Betsy Andrews Subject: Info on Hadrami poetics conference? Comments: cc: skankypossum@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received this as part of a message from a friend in Yemen. Does anyone know anything about this conference? Betsy Have you heared any thing about a conference on the "Hadrami poems" organized by the middle East center, Austen Texas University, and will be held at Washington University, November,1999. Dr.Mahfood Ali Ba-bttat. Kuwait University, Fac.of Sci. Dep. of Earth & Envir. Sci's. E.Mail: BABTTAT@Hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:21:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu Subject: Re: Imagining Language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit john & co. i couldnt agree more - it stuck me quite similar to johanna drucker's _The Alphabetic Labyrinth_ and i was particularly excited by some of the work of winkler, phillips (of course), and i hadnt seen Ernst's Maximiliana before - so that was quite a treat...does anyone out there know of critical response to this book yet? (and whil eim at it - does any one know ofwhere i can find copies of phillip's _Humument_?) ciao derek beaulieu ----- Original Message ----- From: Lowther, John To: Sent: September 16, 1999 12:30 PM Subject: Imagining Language > { p o e t i x } > > i assume there must be some portion of you out there whove got this book > _imagining language_ that rasula and mccaffery edited ? has anyone seen a > review of anywhere ? it sits on my dining room table and as i have > breakfast or lunch or dinner i open it and the food gets cool (if hot) or > warm (if cold) it was expensive as hell but not inappropriately > expensive i dont think ----- point is that its just fucking amazing and if > you (yeah, you *general* without me knowing squat about you singular, > individual) havent seen it you really ought to (again, "ought" is a bit > fishy i know but once youve had some leisure with this book i think you'll > agree, and if you don't it may be that we wdnt be able to communicate very > effectively anyway) this is not a review i cant really imagine > an adequate review jerome rothenberg cd perhaps handle it his > anthologies are the only things that this book seems comparable to > > )L > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:35:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christina Milletti Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/16/99 8:06:12 PM !!!First Boot!!!, editor@WEBDELSOL.COM writes: << If they are working for the NSA they deserve a retirement package. Course, if they're rampaging as humans are inclined to do from time to time, then how can it be the fault of US? It therefore stands to reason they must be paid. >> A bit overboard here. I never said they were being paid by the NSA or that the US is behind their rampage. Quite simply, their "employed" by the Indonesian military. As for firsthand knowledge, there are indeed reporters on the ground who have witnessed the military and the militias working hand in hand. I can backchannel the relevant articles to you which detail the workings of this "mechanism." Isn't the internet amazing? I can read an article about the slaughter in Indonesia rather than actually going there to witness it firsthand myself? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:55:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: Painful Pages (was Novels, 60s) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I want to second George Bowering's quick-quisition on Painful Reading, even while qualifying it by remarking there are many kinds of pain in reading, as in life generally. Possibly the pain Mr. felt in _Naked Lunch_ arose from the content, which is shocking to those who want to look only on the finer side of life. If one wants sex to be a blending of spirits, the material side of life as represented/re-created by Burroughs can be a downer. Or did the pain he speaks of, arise from the cutup method, its resistance to acquired habits of reading gritting and slipping in the mind's eye? There is the very different pain in James' _The Ambassadors_ , of persons not living up to their promise, of the worldliness of the world corrupting the incorrupt; there is the pain in Kafka, that makes us laugh; the pain in Dostoevski, funny in _Notes of an Underground Man_ but far from it elsewhere. These are pains that arise from the action, and they are not raw pain : as a (male) singer unknown to me sang on the radio tonite, "A woman can't kill you in the House of Song." They are pain mastered,in a safe-ish place, in play, and in that serious play is so much pleasure inextricable from the pain. It is akin to the pain of learning the use of a complex tool, or instrument. The pleasure arrives in little increments of mastery. But there is raw pain at times in reading, such as I first felt on hearing a-tonal music.....cant find the context. I imagine Mr Keith might have felt this vis-a-vis the Burroughs' text. This is part of the experience of the New. You get over it or not, as you elect. And there is pain too, a dull nagging pain, when confronted by the Stale. Well, I guess some might be feeling that right abt now, and I apologize for going on at this length. There must be more than one phenomenology of pain-in-reading written by now, and there is a further kind of pain for me in supposing I have read one and forgotten. Bachelard might have written such a book. And authors more recent surely have. I'd like to hear of some. db ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:13:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Rudy Burckhardt Memorial Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Memorial for Rudy Burckhardt an evening of poetry, dance, and film Tuesday, November 2, 1999, 7:30 PM in the Great Hall at Cooper Union 7 East 7 Street, New York with Jacob Burckhardt Lukas Burckhardt Tom Burckhardt Yoshiko Chuma Douglas Dunn & Grazia Della Terza Red Grooms Eric Holzman Yvonne Jacquette Alex Katz Vincent Katz Ron Padgett Simon Pettet Edith Schloss and others * Screening of Films by Rudy Burckhardt 6PM, Tuesday November 30, 1999 Museum of Modern Art, New York ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:09:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Fewell Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/16/99 4:01:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joanh10@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << It's quite amazing to me, a liberal, to see the kind of reaction generated by a clearly written, well-reasoned message (Neff's). What has created this firestorm? Simply the suggestion that the US government (and whatever else we conceive that entity to be,it is still a collection of people with limitations) may not be wholly responsible for what's happening in East Timor. I don't see that Mike Neff was disputing any historical facts, or events leading up to what's happening there--only that he was questioning the idea that these successive events *had* to be linked to either a kind of evil intentionality, or an immoral turning away by the US government. He was instead, and rightly I think, proposing the idea that deeper, and even random, forces are also at work in these situations--not only, but also. That we need to consider the constant recurrence of group hatreds, killings, the human prediliciton for wiping each other out. Nowhere was he suggesting that arms were *not* sold, that US interests were *not* pursued, or that the US often gets behind what turn out to be (or always were) rotten leaders/causes--sometimes in the interest of avoiding worse leaders/causes, or more likely, for simple economic or ideologic reasons. >> Joan, the US is the only top dog left. It's only natural that every piece of blame is dealt to them. Aaron Keith (Not saying it's right, just saying it is) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:22:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Fewell Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/16/99 4:13:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bowering@SFU.CA writes: << Does this mean that you do not want to find any reading painful? Of course not, but rarely have I found a novel as unrelenting and difficult as Naked Lunch. Why is that? Surely one of the most honourable and usual purposes of a fiction writer of any seriousness would be to make the reading painful. Another might be to make it exhilarating. I have found lots of writing painful (not talking about references here) and returned to it, knowing that it is important. In early years that writing included _The Cantos_. Later it included _Palimpsest_ and _Geography & Plays_ and _The Casnnibal_. I do not find books by James Lee Burke to be painful; though I read them, I will not reread them. I dont remember ever being deprtessed because a book was painful to read. When I say depressing, I must admit it is out of a sense of self-deprecation. After reading the novel, I felt as if I had missed out on something, that I wasn't in the loop, so to speak. I had been told of this great novel and after reading it, I felt what was great about it? I could not put my finger on it. Of course, Burrough's prose is shitzophrenic and jargon-laced so I doubt I'm the only one who has had trouble with it. George Bowering. , >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:58:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: re novels held back for the 60's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Billy, good point---if you arent allowed to eat dinner until 9 p.m., then that IS yr dinner-hour. I was over in England that year, '57, when _Ginger Man_ was published...over _there_ . But as you remark, neither it nor those other novels were available in N America until at least a little later...the Howl trial was 57 wasnt it? But I dont think we cd get _Naked Lunch_ before the early 60's...and it's worth thinking what role the books you mention played in the consciousness-shift. As to the game of naming when the 60's (or any other of our shared decades) began and ended, what th heck, i stick w what is written in our novel Piccolo Mondo, the sixties began in 1963 _but clearly this is an assertion/observation always bound to be contradicted in a clash of subjectivities_ . And I gladly grant that specific groundwork was being laid by '55, and push that further back to the 40's (of course, ultimately, one can push it back to shortly before the Big Bang, but....). Cant recall right now if we assigned an end date to the 60's in _PM_ but I'll say '74-5, Watergate, the winding down of the Vietnam war and the first gas crisis. +++++++++++++ Cant avoid feeling frivolous writing such things while E Timor agonizes and dies. Fanciful history here, actual history there, grinding away. I want to thank Taylor Brady for his posts vis-a-vis Indonesia; they reflect my underdstanding pretty much, and articulate it for me. I am surprised alright that any educated person would find Taylor Brady's viewpoint, surprising. Not to patronize....please believe me. Light breaks when it breaks, and often it hurts. But Christ if we leastwise somewhat informed groups arent up to speed, Brady speed, how can there ever be anything altered (and can there be anyway?). We live in our relative prosperities by wholesale oppression, up to and including mass murder. Our standard of living is going to have to drop , if we want to end---or even diminish---that situation. And isnt it dropping? Yes for most of us. But the greed/fear at the top of the foodchain is monumental, insane, out of control (while _in control_ of the rest of us). And it corrupts throughout. In the belly of the Beast, we are all smeared with Its digestive juices. db ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:51:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Beating drums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Michael Neff said: >These are the same people who argue that Marxism is a credible >political >alternative and that the shout of freedom heared in eastern Europe >many >years ago was nothing but a CIA manipulation. They only have >one drum >and they bang it continuously while chanting America is Evil, >America is >Evil, thereby seeking the solace of moral high ground and >community >forever lost to them in the sixties. Well, Michael, the caricature you draw above of those who find fault in your arguments seems the perfectly-traced image of the "dogmatism" you claim to despise. No one has said that those wielding the guns and machetes on the ground are morally blameless. Where did you get that one? The reason people are upset with you, I think (though your argument is not worth getting as upset about as some apparently have in back- channel), is that you are so unwilling to recognize a simple something which should be self-evident: Local legacies, down to a machete's fine edge, are implicated in global histories. And in a country like Indonesia, whose history and political present are inextricable from imperialist intrigue and manipulation, this is quite evidently the case. But to you, it seems, the use of "primitive," non-Pentagon supplied machetes is the anthropological sign that shows the violence for what it autochthonously is-- yet one more primal spasm in a culture condemned to repeated blood-letting. You challenge people to prove otherwise. And so people (while not disagreeing that violence is, indeed, primal) have given you ample evidence that the current strife has manifested itself inside specific conditions that our government (along with other imperialist powers) has had a considerable hand in creating and perpetuating, having helped to install and then unflaggingly abet, as it has, the same party that now organizes the machete wielders. The irony here is that it is up to you, really, to show that this history of which people have spoken has little to do with the past and present suffering in East Timor. You haven't. And you end your intervention in this discussion, even, by suggesting that the history doesn't exist except in the minds of America-Is-Evil shouting poet- spooks trapped in a 60's induced psychosis. Deep denial is a form of psychosis, Michael. I wonder if there is a clinical name for the kind where the victim's ears are filled with the sound of beating drums? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:38:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: Re: Imagining Language Comments: To: "Lowther, John" In-Reply-To: <5D5C5C8C3A41D211893900A024D4B97C880378@md2.facstaff.oglethorpe.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Lowther, John wrote: > i assume there must be some portion of you out there whove got this book > _imagining language_ that rasula and mccaffery edited ? has anyone seen a > review of anywhere ? it sits on my dining room table and as i have I wrote a review of it which will be in the next issue of Salt Hill. I'm sure it's not adequate, but if it helps any, I love that book, too. Arielle **************************************************************************** "I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I describe." -- Ray Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:43:27 -0400 Reply-To: joris@csc.albany.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Novels_of_the_60=B4s_/_Thomas_Dorow_?= In-Reply-To: <1194494698.937497365@psprk143-08.pubsites.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Rolf Dieter Brinkmann: Keiner weiss mehr. > > Brinkmann congeniously translated Frank O´Hara´s poetry to > german, was the > editor of "Silver Screen" and "Acid", two compilations that first > introduced Burroughs, Bukowski, O´Hara and several others to a german > audience. "Acid" was a cult when I was in my teens. Brinkmann himself > mainly known for his poetry. Check out "Westward 1&2" if you > come across > it. His most exciting work is the journal "Rom, Blicke". I > don´t know if > any of his work is translated, if it isn´t, there´s a job to be done. Yes, indeed, Brinkman is a marvelous poet and a superb writer all around. "Rom, Blicke" is, I think, better than his novel.I don't know if any of the prose was translated, but some of the poetry was. The English poet John James did so, and published them in the English magazine Collection 7. Interestingly enough I had email from Peter Riley, the British poet & bookseller a few days ago, asking me for info on RDB, as there seems to be a new interest in Roilf's work in Germany. I translated a few poems, but they remained unpublished and, if I remember unfinished: I was supposed to work on the translations with him when he died. (In fact, he was supposed to come over for dinner & talk about the translations the night of his detah in London, a few days after we had been together at the Cambridge Poetry Festival, but never showed. Early the next morning, I think it was, I was called and ask to identify Rolf's body in the morgue -- he had been killed by a taxicab as he stepped into the road looking in the wrong direction.) > Hubert Fichte: Die Palette > > This is the first novel to portray the gay underground in > Hamburg. Fichte´s > style is amazing, it was termed "new sensitivity" when he > first came out > with his work, but to me it appears as a combination of > Doeblin´s montage > techniques with elements of the nouveau roman, a very physical and > psychedelic style. If you don´t know it, you should. If it isn´t > translated, you should do it yourself or find somebody who will do it. > Fichte left a great body of work after his death a few years > ago, he is > still mainly read in fan circles, but this is truly excellent stuff. > > Greetings, Thomas Dorow Yes indeed, I still have it and go back to it every few years. Met him in 68' when he gave a reading from the just publishged _Palette_in Luxembourg and it turned into a memorable evening. I seem to have some memory that that book was translated, and I somehow associate that with Joachim Neugroschel, though I could be wholly wrong here. Pierre ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:01:15 -0400 Reply-To: joris@csc.albany.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Imagining Language In-Reply-To: <5D5C5C8C3A41D211893900A024D4B97C880378@md2.facstaff.oglethorpe.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, the WAX MUSEUM is totally amazing -- don't know of reviews,however -- though there must have been some -- I have used it for teaching ever since it came out, but it now seems to be out of print and the NCTE doesn not seem like the right outfit to keep it in print.(Usin g it for teaching permits me to reread it once a year, which is most salutary). Pierre ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris The postmodern is the condition of those 6 Madison Place things not equal to themselves, the wan- Albany NY 12202 dering or nomadic null set (0={x:x not-equal x}). Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 Alan Sondheim Email: joris@csc.albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ > i assume there must be some portion of you out there whove > got this book > _imagining language_ that rasula and mccaffery edited ? > has anyone seen a > review of anywhere ? it sits on my dining room table and as i have > breakfast or lunch or dinner i open it and the food gets cool > (if hot) or > warm (if cold) it was expensive as hell but not inappropriately > expensive i dont think ----- point is that its just fucking > amazing and if > you (yeah, you *general* without me knowing squat about you singular, > individual) havent seen it you really ought to (again, > "ought" is a bit > fishy i know but once youve had some leisure with this book i > think you'll > agree, and if you don't it may be that we wdnt be able to > communicate very > effectively anyway) this is not a review i cant > really imagine > an adequate review jerome rothenberg cd perhaps handle > it his > anthologies are the only things that this book seems comparable to > > )L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:24:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Review -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Well, Brian, now we can all see that maybe this "little review" isn't going to be published ~with good reason.~ Only seven words seems like a ~very~ little little review, wouldn't you say? New critical miniaturism. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Brian Stefans 09/15/99 02:35pm >>> Ok, I'm probably going to be taken to task for this, but here's a little review I wrote a while ago which isn't going to be published (tho here it is!). It may seem knee-jerky to some, sloppily termed or patronizing to others, but perhaps there's some matter here worth discussing? Or if not, not. *** Carla Harryman The Words, After Carl Sandburg's The Rutabaga Stories and Jean-Paul Sartre O Books The Words is a radical, perhaps even ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:24:42 CST6CDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hank Lazer Organization: The University of Alabama Subject: Objectivist Nexus - Discount Offer Announcing the latest volume in the series Modern and Contemporary Poetics, edited by Charles Bernstein and Hank Lazer The Objectivist Nexus Essays in Cultural Poetics Edited by Rachel Blau DuPlessis and Peter Quartermain Outstanding poets and critics present cultural readings of the Objectivist poets, a group whose works have been largely unexamined. "Objectivist" writers, conjoined through a variety of personal, ideological, and literary-historical links, have, from the late 1920s to the present, attracted emulation and suspicion. Representing a nonsymbolist, postimagist poetics and characterized by a historical, realist, antimythological worldview, Objectivists have retained their outsider status. Despite such status, however, the formal, intellectual, ideological, and ethical concerns of the Objectivist nexus have increasingly influenced poetry and poetics in the United States. Thus, argue editors Rachel Blau DuPlessis and Peter Quartermain, the time has come for an anthology that unites essential works on Objectivist practices and presents Objectivist writing as an enlargement of the possibilities of poetry rather than as a determinable and definable literary movement. The authors' collective aim is to bring attention to this group of poets and to exemplify and specify cultural readings for poetic texts_readings alert to the material world, politics, society, and history, and readings concerned with the production, dissemination, and reception of poetic texts. The contributors consider Basil Bunting, Lorine Niedecker, George Oppen, Carl Rakosi, Charles Reznikoff, and Louis Zukofsky within both their historical milieu and our own. The essays insist on poetry as a mode of thought; analyze and evaluate Objectivist politics; focus on the ethical, spiritual, and religious issues raised by certain Objectivist affiliations with Judaism; and explore the dissemination of poetic texts and the vagaries of Objectivist reception. Running throughout the book are two related threads: Objectivist writing as generally a practice aware of its own historical and social contingency and Objectivist writing as a site of complexity, contestation, interrogation, and disagreement. "The critics and poets in this important collection create new paradigms for the study of poetry and culture. . . . This book will be important to any reader of modern and contemporary American poetry."_Susan M. Schultz The University of Hawai'i-Manoa Contributors Charles Altieri Charles Bernstein Andrew Crozier Yves di Manno Rachel Blau DuPlessis Norman Finkelstein Robert Franciosi Stephen Fredman Alan Golding Burton Hatlen Michael Heller Eric Homberger Ming-Qian Ma Peter Middleton Peter Nicholls Peter Quartermain John Seed Rachel Blau DuPlessis is Professor of English at Temple University. Peter Quartermain is Professor of English at the University of British Columbia. 380 pages, 6 x 9 ISBN 0-8173-0974-8 $49.95s unjacketed cloth ISBN 0-8173-0973-X $24.95s paper SPECIAL OFFER TO POETICS LISTSERV 20% DISCOUNT WHEN YOU MENTION THAT YOU ARE ON THE POETICS LISTSERV OFFER EXPIRES 15 October 1999 To order contact Michelle Sellers: E-mail msellers@uapress.ua.edu Phone (205) 348-7108 Fax (205) 348-9201 or mail to: The University of Alabama Press Marketing Department Box 870380 Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0380 Attn: Michelle Sellers www.uapress.ua.edu DuPlessis & Quartermain/The Objectivist Nexus, cloth discounted price $39.96 DuPlessis & Quartermain/The Objectivist Nexus, paper discounted price $19.96 Subtotal _________________ Illinois residents add 8.75% sales tax _________________ USA orders: add $3.50 postage for the first book and $.75 for each additional book _________________ Canada residents add 7% sales tax _________________ International orders: add $4.00 postage for the first book and $1.00 for each additional book _________________ Enclosed as payment in full _________________ (Make checks payable to The University of Alabama Press) Bill my: _________Visa _________MasterCard Account number _____________________________ Daytime phone_______________________________ Expiration date _______________________________ Full name____________________________________ Signature____________________________________ Address_____________________________________ City________________________________________ State_______________________ Zip ______________ Michelle Sellers Marketing Manager University of Alabama Press msellers@uapress.ua.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:19:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Garrett Kalleberg Subject: The Transcendental Friend 11 - September 1999 Comments: To: Poetics List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Continuing in our abiding interest in forensic entomology, this "September" issue of The Transcendental Friend features state-of-the-art freeze-fracture images of the drosophilia (fruit fly) brain, a catalog of moths and candles and the images they illuminate, five excurses on the Romanian night (for which candles), and the brilliant light of Reason of Today's Not Opposite Day (or, The Night) (or Night) for which sleep and monsters etc. The Transcendental Friend, No. 11, Sept. 1999 http://www.morningred.com/friend/1999/09 Which is to say: Ten sonnets by Tim Atkins, in Laird Hunt's Bestiary. The Comte de Montesquiou's "Moth," presented by Jeffrey Jullich in Idiosyncratica. Five early Romanian poems of Paul Celan (!) translated by Julian Semilian & Sanda Agalidi, in Leonard Schwartz's Report from the Field or Afield or a field. Mike Kelleher's "Revue" of a poem by Charles Bernstein, in Dan Machlin's Review. Garrett Kalleberg mailto:tf@morningred.com The Transcendental Friend can be found at: http://www.morningred.com/friend Immanent Audio Online at: http://www.morningred.com/immanentaudio ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:38:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Marxists: You Have Nothing to Lose But Your Pain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Observation: The Whiff of Marxism Following any number of conspiracy buzz words, statements, "theories" posted front channel re Chevron, Exon, "follow the money" etc. and blistering backchannel attacks by individuals who I know to be bonafied life-cheated Marxists and/or fringe Marxists, my distracted and plodding neurophysics has all too slowly found the common thread in all this religious fervor. Not just "leftist" which is a label all too vague. I've been hearing the chanting, only dismissed it long ago. Now it's returned, alive and well and festering. The capitalist thread, Marxists "following the money" and seeing unbreakable and absurdly complex webs of control spun from the corporate board rooms of oil. Of course, what else could explain the stench of America rising from the corpse of Timor? The card house complexities follow. An American official, Kissinger, touches down in Indonesia in 1975, decades of unrest, slaughters, feuding continue till the present, billions of dollars worth of arms, cash, and advisors are dispatched to make sure the killing continues in the most frenzied and diabolical of forms, and behind it all, the coporate moguls, the black gold zaibatsu, bloated and cigar fuming and chuckling at the pile of dead. When all they had to do, like they and everyone else does so business-as-usual in the "third" world, is simply pass a few bribes to the Indonesian govt to get drilling rights. For that matter, they could have bribed the Portugese! What a waste of time! If I were at the NSA I'd be pissed, but we know that govt officials are far more intelligent than we are. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:42:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Re: M.B. Tolson In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990914155817.007676f8@popmail.lmu.edu> from "Aldon Nielsen" at Sep 14, 1999 03:58:19 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tolson and _Poetry_ (miscellaneously): "E. & E. O." was accepted by _Poetry_ and published there with pretty strong support from (then editor) Karl Shapiro. That was, as Aldon says, 1951. Tolson had begun approaching _Poetry_ with his work in 1948. After Tolson won _Poetry_'s Best Hokin Prize, and after Lorenzo Turner published a positive review of _Libretto_ (also in _Poetry_), Henry Rago, who was then editor, got a letter from Hayden Carruth, who was also a _Poetry_ insider (having been an editor in the late 40s)--complaining about the quality of Turner and Tolson both. Both "stinkers," Carruth said. Rago replied in agreement and went further: the Turner review had come in before he, Rago, became editor, and while Shapiro was away in Europe. In other words, it was a mistake. So was accepting Tolson's poetry. Rago implied that Shapiro was not a Tolson supporter and that Tolson's poetry is awful, unfit for _Poetry_--an embarrassment. This was a lie: Shapiro had backed Tolson. On Ray Nelson: He is a superb editor. And critic--especially of American visionary romantic verse. His little book on Patchen is superb. --Al Filreis ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | There is finally an edition in paperback of Melvin Tolson's poems, or at | least most of them. Just out from University of Virginia Press is | "Harlem Gallery" and Other Poems of Melvin B. | Tolson. The book includes the three volumes that were | published during Tolson's life, along with a few magazine pieces that had | not been collected, including the crucial "E. & O. E." which appeared in | Poetry in 1951. The new edition includes Tolson's | notes to Libretto for the Republic of Liberia and | new annotations to Harlem Gallery, provided by the | editor, Raymond Nelson. What is not included are the earlier poems that | appeared a few years ago as A Gallery of Harlem | Portraits and some fugitive poems. There will be two | previously unpublished Tolson poems in an anthology that I am editing | with Lauri Ramey that Alabama will publish soon. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:26:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: Imagining Language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII john and others, i have a review of _imagining language_ that has just appeared in the latest issue of _literary research/recherche litteraire_ (a publication that comes with membership in the icla/ailc). the print version contains scandalous amounts of typos and other editorial interventions with which i am very displeased. but a quick scan of the on-line version suggests to me that it is identical to the version i intended for publication. http://www.uwo.ca/modlang/ailc/current/orange.htm the same issue also contains my review of marjorie perloff's _poetry on and off the page_ (likewise superior to the print version) at http://www.uwo.ca/modlang/ailc/current/orange2.htm from beautifully sunny washington d.c., ("everyone come out of the ark, the flood is over!") tom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:50:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: MODULO FEELING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MODULO FEELING What you need to open is a new file. Call it A Feel for Life. What have you there, poetry, to tell me? Oh but tell me that on barbed wire snow looks especially beautiful in early January, when the atmosphere of Christmas is still on the air. Oh but tell me that robotics have advanced to such a point of perfection that there’s no longer an issue between brain and computer. For example, I am talking to you, but how the flam do you know I’m not a computer? My maker, by the way, toiled a score years in Artificial Intelligence (AI), specializing in machine translation. The quality of his work is beyond dispute. I have always been proud of him. We used to talk about AI a lot as I was growing up. For example, you can have a program that will make the computer write something really wild. Because when it is writing, there is like a cathode that goes right into the computer’s brain, and there swerve rivers far past our recognition, for likelihood’s butterflies are already settling in the nearness of our gaze, and this means the river will be an opening, disburthened of its erstwhile behavior, but still dynamic. And that means we’re already in March, and soon is my birthday. Awww. I’m no longer sure how old I am then. The telegraph wires are tall, and altogether elsewhere my blue school uniform is hung on a wire to dry, and Tom barks on the balcony in the rain. Tomik, back to the balcony, says Mom. Was a mongrel, maternally a Spaniel and paternally a mutt. A big box of apples and a lizard in a big glass jar behind it, live tarantulas in the other jars, a grafted cactus, and Twits the canary on my head (who later flew away). I’m a budding biologist, but language is a distraction. You see, the idea is that something counts as "artificial intelligence" so long as you can’t distinguish between a program’s thought process and a human’s thought process. You can’t tell if you’re talking to a computer or a human. Or by reading it’s writing. Because when it’s writing, there’s like spiral stairway at the institute, and the colleagues have gone out for a smoke, but you are stuck with your algorithm, worried about funds for the project. Your boss is a bastard non-entity. The question what Intelligence Itself is, in a Platonic sense, is never answered. But we are working out what’s intelligence as we know it, which keeps us from drifting rudderless in a sea of ill luck. Piles of dictionary entries on punched cards and various thesauri. This too must be confirmed. Since it is not copyrighted, I’ll take the continuous process of Massachusetts weather from October 1-31 and’ll make it into my latest poem. (And suppose someone will later find this poem and turn it back into weather. ’Attabe cool! Such possibilities hsould not be ruled out.) Thus, to answer your question, yes, poetry too. As you can see on the graph, computers can prospectively write it very well. Not necessarily wild stuff. Fine, measured stuff with taste. I know form experience. They, for example, will be able to write lyric poetry. Because when it is writing, there is like a modulo feeling, and it begins to multiply itself further and further, until the heart becomes incompatible with the brain, and then absolute intelligence is detached, as the hypothesis states, into an outer darkness. What happens to it thence we do not know. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:30:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Resend: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed More response to Mike Neff: >I say it goes far deeper than this. These models of yours are insufficient >to explain the group behavior. given that it would take hundreds of pages of text to even begin to approximate sufficiency, i agree. i sufficiency can even be achieved through language at all. but i don't see your point as constructive or informative, frankly. >Yes, war with Portugal would have been disastrous, like the mouse who >roared. Hell, Portugal is poor, why didn't we just bribe them like everyone else? Surely Chevron had enough moolah. that's an excellent question. And honestly why I don't know, but i'd like to find out. >Open the history books. Ouch. >"It is a calculated psychotic rampage. You don't have to see it; the world will go on without your seeing it. Though it would be better if you could see it. The rampage is funded and it has a history of complicity and support. The militias are either indonesians/jakartans that have settled there, finding pay as mercenaries, or even some east timorese deeply scarred from the concentration camp environment they grew up in. Keep in mind that the killing has been much much much worse in the past than it is now;" >Yes, of course it is calculated. I do see it. The world goes on anyway. You're touching on the local politics now, setting the scene, a scene which requires no US govt to ignite the killings. Of course, but again, to repeat, in this instance, regardless of whether the US is REQUIRED, they were involved and were playing a role of provocateur and financers and intelligence suppliers. >"Kissinger and Scowcroft, as representatives of the NSA (though they were also cabinet members) went with Ford on several occasions to visit with Suharto. Following the first visit, Indonesia deployed mercenaries into East Timor. the last visit (Dec. 6, 1975) presaged the full fledged invasion the following day." >I'm going to stop here. I don't know that these two were "representatives" >of the NSA. What do you mean by representatives? You mean operatives, >don't you? How could the NSA select "representatives" in the common sense >of the word? I'm not buying that. I thought NSA was subject to guys like Kissinger, not the other way around. If I can find the declassified docs on-line I will send you the URLs. that's how they are title on the presidential memos regarding the trips. >"I wished that my country represented democracy and the values of freedom >it claims to represent; it is clear that i can no longer naively cling to such a belief." >I don't believe that either Patrick, I just think your explanations are >formula in some respects and inadequate to explain the condition of group >killing psychosis. If they are formula, well, OK. I know I have no formula. This for me is pretty much independent study. Inadequate? Yes. But the US is still playing a role. If I denied that I might as well say, "arbeit macht frei". I thinkyou are right to want more. I don;t have all the answers. But can people add to what little work I can do and recognize what is happening? Where the guns come from, what the motives are, where the rsouces are flowing, etc? What I have been trying to do, and pete spence as well, is to advocate voicing opinions to those in power to sya the direction. your skepticism is well founded and admirable, but protesting protest itself seems a very specious tactic for learning more about the world. we're all responsible, you, me, pete, some leftover potato chips on a lunchroom floor, my cat, that butterfly in india flapping its wings, and so on. but the US clearly has a high probability of influencing future events in E Timor, as history shows the US has a high prior probability of such influence (Bayes' theorem, which owes everything to David Hume). thanks Mike, : P Patrick ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:44:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG Comments: To: ampo19@listserv.arizona.edu, ashbery@listserv.arizona.edu, contempo@listserv.arizona.edu, egl@listserv.arizona.edu, english@listserv.arizona.edu, modern@listserv.arizona.edu, poesis@listserv.arizona.edu, poetry@listserv.arizona.edu, pog@listserv.arizona.edu, "pogevent (E-mail)" Comments: cc: "Waves (E-mail)" , "Valved (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit POG, the Tucson Poetry Group, is gearing up for its third year of programming (with funding from the Arizona Commission for the Arts and the Tucson/Pima Arts council): we're scheduling a series of roughly 9 poetry readings (and/or other art events) for this year. If you'd like to be added to our email list; if you'd like to participate in POG events other than the public readings (such as informal POG get-togethers, readings, and discussions); or if you'd like to help out with event planning and logistics: please email me at one of the addresses below (or just REPLY to this message). thanks, Tenney Nathanson POG UA English mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:36:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Novels of the 60's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit had to reformat this one a bit. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mills, Billy" Time: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:15:44 +0100 Haven't seen any mention of: Ken Kesey: Sometimes a Great Notion Flann O'Brien: The Third Policeman and The Poor Mouth Billy hardPressed poetry Alternative Irish poetry publishing and distribution bmills@netg.ie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:40:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Marxists: You Have Nothing to Lose But Your Pain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit had to reformat this one a bit. ---------------------------------------------- From: Michael Neff Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:38:34 -0400 Observation: The Whiff of Marxism Following any number of conspiracy buzz words, statements, "theories" posted front channel re Chevron, Exon, "follow the money" etc. and blistering backchannel attacks by individuals who I know to be bonafied life-cheated Marxists and/or fringe Marxists, my distracted and plodding neurophysics has all too slowly found the common thread in all this religious fervor. Not just "leftist" which is a label all too vague. I've been hearing the chanting, only dismissed it long ago. Now it's returned, alive and well and festering. The capitalist thread, Marxists "following the money" and seeing unbreakable and absurdly complex webs of control spun from the corporate board rooms of oil. Of course, what else could explain the stench of America rising from the corpse of Timor? The card house complexities follow. An American official, Kissinger, touches down in Indonesia in 1975, decades of unrest, slaughters, feuding continue till the present, billions of dollars worth of arms, cash, and advisors are dispatched to make sure the killing continues in the most frenzied and diabolical of forms, and behind it all, the coporate moguls, the black gold zaibatsu, bloated and cigar fuming and chuckling at the pile of dead. When all they had to do, like they and everyone else does so business-as-usual in the "third" world, is simply pass a few bribes to the Indonesian govt to get drilling rights. For that matter, they could have bribed the Portugese! What a waste of time! If I were at the NSA I'd be pissed, but we know that govt officials are far more intelligent than we are. --simple boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:42:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: The sound of drums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Michael Neff said: >These are the same people who argue that Marxism is a credible political >alternative and that the shout of freedom heared in eastern Europe many >years ago was nothing but a CIA manipulation. They only have one drum >and they bang it continuously while chanting America is Evil, America is >Evil, thereby seeking the solace of moral high ground and community >forever lost to them in the sixties. Well, Michael, the caricature you draw above of those who find fault in your arguments seems the perfectly-traced image of the "dogmatism" you claim to despise! No one has said that those wielding the guns and machetes in Dili are morally blameless. Where did you get that one? The reason people are upset with you, I think (though your argument is not worth getting as upset about as some apparently have in back- channel), is that you are so dismissive of something self-evident: that local legacies are implicated in global histories. And in a country like Indonesia, whose history and political present are inextricable from imperialist control and manipulation, this is quite evidently the case- - right down to the fine edge on machetes, still a widely-used tool, for example, in former colonies originally integrated into the world market as providers of agricultural raw materials to metropolitan centers. But to you, it seems, the use of "primitive," non-Pentagon supplied machetes is some anthropological sign that shows the violence as autochthonous through and through-- yet one more primal spasm in a culture condemned to repeated blood-letting. You challenge people to prove otherwise. And so people (while not disagreeing that violence is, indeed, primal) have given you ample evidence that the current strife has manifested itself inside specific conditions that our government (along with other imperialist powers) has had a considerable hand in creating and perpetuating, having helped to install and then unflaggingly abet, as it has, the same party that now organizes the machete wielders. The irony here is that it is up to you, really, to show that this history of which people have spoken has little to do with the past and present suffering in East Timor. You haven't. And you end your intervention in this discussion, even, by suggesting that the history doesn't exist except in the minds of America-Is-Evil shouting poet- spooks trapped in a 60's induced psychosis. Deep denial is a form of psychosis, Michael. I wonder if there is a clinical name for the kind where the victim's ears are filled with the sound of beating drums? ------- End of forwarded message ------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:43:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: M.B. Tolson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit had to reformat this one a bit ----------------------------------------------------- From: Al Filreis Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:42:19 -0400 On Tolson and _Poetry_ (miscellaneously): "E. & E. O." was accepted by _Poetry_ and published there with pretty strong support from (then editor) Karl Shapiro. That was, as Aldon says, 1951. Tolson had begun approaching _Poetry_ with his work in 1948. After Tolson won _Poetry_'s Best Hokin Prize, and after Lorenzo Turner published a positive review of _Libretto_ (also in _Poetry_), Henry Rago, who was then editor, got a letter from Hayden Carruth, who was also a _Poetry_ insider (having been an editor in the late 40s)--complaining about the quality of Turner and Tolson both. Both "stinkers," Carruth said. Rago replied in agreement and went further: the Turner review had come in before he, Rago, became editor, and while Shapiro was away in Europe. In other words, it was a mistake. So was accepting Tolson's poetry. Rago implied that Shapiro was not a Tolson supporter and that Tolson's poetry is awful, unfit for _Poetry_--an embarrassment. This was a lie: Shapiro had backed Tolson. On Ray Nelson: He is a superb editor. And critic--especially of American visionary romantic verse. His little book on Patchen is superb. --Al Filreis --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- | There is finally an edition in paperback of Melvin Tolson's poems, or at | least most of them. Just out from University of Virginia Press is | "Harlem Gallery" and Other Poems of Melvin B. | Tolson. The book includes the three volumes that were | published during Tolson's life, along with a few magazine pieces that had | not been collected, including the crucial "E. & O. E." which appeared in | Poetry in 1951. The new edition includes Tolson's | notes to Libretto for the Republic of Liberia and | new annotations to Harlem Gallery, provided by the | editor, Raymond Nelson. What is not included are the earlier poems that | appeared a few years ago as A Gallery of Harlem | Portraits and some fugitive poems. There will be two | previously unpublished Tolson poems in an anthology that I am editing | with Lauri Ramey that Alabama will publish soon. --simple boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:45:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Imagining Language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit had to reformat this one a bit. ------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Orange Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:26:17 -0400 john and others, i have a review of _imagining language_ that has just appeared in the latest issue of _literary research/recherche litteraire_ (a publication that comes with membership in the icla/ailc). the print version contains scandalous amounts of typos and other editorial interventions with which i am very displeased. but a quick scan of the on-line version suggests to me that it is identical to the version i intended for publication. http://www.uwo.ca/modlang/ailc/current/orange.htm the same issue also contains my review of marjorie perloff's _poetry on and off the page_ (likewise superior to the print version) at http://www.uwo.ca/modlang/ailc/current/orange2.htm from beautifully sunny washington d.c., ("everyone come out of the ark, the flood is over!") tom --simple boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:45:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Profoundity doesn't seem to be your strong suit Brian have you given any thought to musical comedy? >Chomsky would be happy >with such poetry, if only kd lang would sing that, you'd have something some words have no meaning w/o song wouldn't you agree? the thought of what america would be like if email was accompanied by accordion twubbles ma sweep forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:59:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: John Wilkinson, Anne Tardos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John Wilkinson Oort's Cloud Barque/subpress Collecting all of Wilkinson's early books (everything prior to 1988's Flung Clear), Oort's Cloud is this English poet's first full-length collection easily available in the United States. While Wilkinson is clearly indebted to his former teacher at Cambridge University, the poet J.H. Prynne -- both poets share a polymath range of reference and use of complex rhythms, creating a near-forbidding surface density that spirals chaotically around a generally stable underlying formal structure -- the younger poet departs in his occasional use of pop cultural references, a directly emotive (nearly satiric but decentered) form of political commentary, and emphatic, almost apocalyptic tone. Indeed, some of these poems -- which seem laden with images, yet strangely lacking in color -- can be understood as "sculptural" in the most brutal of British traditions. It's not surprising that one of the poems, "Pneumatic Drill," seems to make reference, via the phrase "rock drill," to Jacob Epstein's science fiction-like sculpture of that name. ("Rock Drill" was a piece that utilized an actual drill in it, and became the name of one of Ezra Pound's series of Cantos.) The material and rational world become a matter of hard physics, and hard post-Newtonian lessons, in Wilkinson's harsh narrative gaze: "And it's mainly a business of nerve / Finding out the outline of the body / By an accident By the fate of light / And skirting your frozen chamber / They are giants of indifference Ack! Ack! / Like an aching tooth." ("Pneumatic Drill, 51") The influence of George Oppen is apparent, especially in some of the shorter poems in which the weight of a social and moral conscience bear down heavily upon the everyday: "At three-second intervals / air / disturbed his coiffure / too dense & / closely trimmed / to model the much-admired / ruffle effect // To sell his labor power / Find a willing employer // & the competent fan / empire made" (Mile End Road, 40) However, the use of highly telescoped physical imagery (often used in the context of a view of the interchangeability of matter) suggests a more harrowed consciousness, such as in the painting of Francis Bacon or the early poems of Gottfried Benn, especially when in poems that suggest the impossibility of reaching _nearness_ in human relations: "Where have I take you or you guided me / Where I go is dis / ease / warts and thick / vaginal discharge / We are right to be suspicious / of contact / quoth the counter girl". ("Driving Each Other #4"). At times, as at the end of "Pneumatic Drill," Wilkinson seems to mourn the loss of the visionary capacity, or at least to ironize it; at others, he gives over to a sort of prophetic rhythm that he could be said to share with London contemporary Allen Fisher (and further back with Shelley and Blake). "Air Fleet Base" seems most key in this case, a very long poem that is rather repetitive in meter (Wilkinson's meters are purposely unalluring, but occasionally are flatten out to a overly-recognizable, or perhaps entropically dulled, pattern), but which, in its waves of accruing matter and fugue-like repeats of themes, suggests Walter Benjamin's take on Rimbaud's "Le Bateau Ivre," in which he suggests that rapid exchanges within the poem -- a sort of hypertrophied capitalism -- lead the writer to escape, or rise above, class. "I'm no stranger, I'm that arch arcadian trading sheep-eyes / off the kiosk behind the Shakespear cenotaph; how my flanks / pale in alabaster, worn with a finicky social observance / with expatriate lust," he writes in "Air Fleet Base." Wilkinson seems at pains to stay one step ahead of poetic domesticity, whether in interpretation, assimilation, but also the blindness of understanding or the deception of physical wholeness. The following lines, coming in at angles one after the other, seem to push the envelope toward the overwhelming question: "Beyond the heated policy / Which scorches the earth / Wet wool stinks on a hearth // Excess in that package / Smokes out the affirmative mate / In a blonde rage // Striation of exacted space / Enflames the offered meteors / Like burs on the carapace // His feet slip on the landing pad / Burst the sandals / Whose awaited message was banal." (notes to "About the Level I Start From," 80). Poems like "Bullyboy Tears" employ nursery-rhyme rhythms, while others bury deep within them the traces of poetic genres -- ballads, epics, pastorals -- that one wouldn't expect in late-modernist writing. This book is not for everyone, and might be a tougher sell stateside, where vocabulary and syntax has tended toward the "everyday," even when employing semantic breakage; for Wilkinson the breakages can suggest a "deep" reading of English (going back to the Anglo-Saxon), a cubist simultaneity, and finally plain old avant-gardist liberated words -- anything that shatters the picture of the unity of the contemporary social body, while placing within it the arguably still traditionally-employed poetic artifact (moralizing, eternal). Though Wilkinson sacrifices any easy notion of an "authorial voice," or a protagonist even in apparently narrative poems, he is not interested in "play" in the form of either Language poetics or the poems of Ashbery or the Oulipo group, so one looking for "postmodernism" can be at a loss as to how the images collect to form larger meaning structures, or how the music is to operate -- the "voice" itself seems obviously unattractive, and the outlook in the poems unsunny. However, close attention pays off, as traces of the peculiar brand of British social realism (and black humor) break through, and the vulnerability of the poet and the poem -- the inability to maintain a "perspective," or to trust either the rational, autobiographical or the visionary, along with a very real marginalization that can rely on few or no secondary structures to buttress its acceptance -- becomes a matter for deep thought. (To order: $15 to 'A'A Arts, 2955 Dole Street, Honolulu, HI 96816) **** Ann Tardos Uxudo O Books / Tuumba Press The foreword by poet Caroline Bergvall states that Uxudo - written in spliced together bits of Hungarian, German, French, English and made-up languages, as well as pronunciation keys and other linguistic graphs - is a "multilingual text," a form of first language itself which "throws up the xenophobic asymmetries of difference." (8). Indeed, the writing begins to take on a life of its own, inviting the reader into a world of semantic and phonologic echoes, an effect furthered by the inclusion of several of Tardos's video images, many of which themselves repeat with different digital effects. As an art piece, one thinks of a much-less elegant Christian Boltanski and his out-of-focus black and white portrait photos arranged as alters, shadows in silent deference to, and communication with, the lives lost in the Holocaust. As many of the texts of Uxudo are either Fluxus-inspired doggerel, sing-songy chants, or simply candid bits from everyday life, the wafts of Europe's lost innocence are hard to ignore. As visual poems, they resemble the French Lettrism, which to American eyes tend to look ugly -- most of the technology employed here is low end, and not very slick, the fonts clashing and the margins loose -- but whose chaos becomes endearing once divined. The first line, "Aller Sunden Katzen zusammengefasst," finds its echo on the facing page: "All sins of cats rolled into one / Where do we come from and where do we go? / Images, mon ami, ich smoke nicht mehr. / Gern would I do." (19) The contrast of the fairytale line with the most basic question of the cultural exile, followed by two mixed-language sentences that make sense despite their word replacement, leads one immediately into this interstitial area that could very well be the road from any European nation state -- a margin at the heart of the center. Later, a flurry of equal signs leads the reader on a heady joy-ride of mistranslation: "quake = tremblement = Beben = renges" (22), for example, or "uxudo = uxudo = uxudo = uxudo = uxudo = uxudo" (42) as if parodying the mind's inability to make sense out of the solipsistic word. After looking at this book for a fair amount of time, one is not sure if the Zaum-like neologisms are not, in fact, Hungarian, as Tardos's unreliable witness has already acquired a reputation for slipping away when apparently most needed. In contrast to the multimedia book Dictee by the Korean American artist Theresa Cha - a text which relates, however obliquely, the story of Korea's annexation by Japan and the subsequent liberation movement - Uxudo (the title itself comes from a word that appeared in the text after a computer malfunction) exists no where more than in the mind, where words, in the act of improvisation, have to be created out of air as the linguistic environment: "multiplicatering = multiplikatern." Page thirty playfully contains the pronunciation guide and definition of the foreign words on page thirty-one, but even after that, meaning is quite elusive: "Hochgeduld after nine from a fountain / Gekreuzung vielmehr, which is how it's done / Neighboryly jolie bete / Give it time, haromvaros." (31) The words following this bit, "Afterimage = Nachbild," sums up the project of Uxudo: it is a collection of resonances, shadows, scraps and funky constructs, mixed with the fading light of the nihilistic, playful response to this disillusionment that characterized avant-garde art of the early century. It's modernism and the nostalgia for modernism. (There are a lot of missing diacritical marks in this review.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:37:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: a mild request re political discussions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Folks, I have been keeping silent on this because I fear attack--but I just have a small request. When the threads and posts get long: ***Please erase the message you are responding to!*** I have other sources for news/opinions of East Timor, KPFA happens to be a few blocks from my house, etc. My scrolling time and time again (I get digest) through various stances on these issues doesn't help a person or a thing, anywhere. Caveat: I am not trying to shut anyone up, I simply would ask the courtesy of ERASING THE MSG you are responding to. If we are interested, there is surely always the archive. Cheers, Elizabeth Treadwell Outlet/DLB http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:09:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Double Lucy update Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, The Double Lucy Books website has been updated to include excerpts from the upcoming (in October) issue of our periodical, _Outlet (4/5) Weathermap_ : new work by Taj Jackson and Gwyn McVay, plus an excerpt from Sarah Anne Cox's interview with Kathleen Fraser, in which she speaks of the current state of "feminist" poetics. Also, updated submission information for our next issue, _Outlet (6) Stars_. Enjoy! Elizabeth Treadwell, Editor Outlet Magazine/Double Lucy Books PO Box 9013 Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy To go straight to the Outlet page: http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page8.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:26:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: Flats?/novels of the sixties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" reminds me I left off that novel of Rudy Wurlitzer, Flats? forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:13:05 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Fw: Allan Nairn detained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is for information of those on the list concerned about events in E.Timor. -----Original Message----- From: Pat Fiske To: Merilyn Fairskye ; acam ; alexander downer ; almanac ; amanda sharrad ; artspace australia ; australia council ; bernard hayward ; bonita ely ; carol archer ; carol ruff ; carolyn strachan ; catherine de lorenzo ; dlux ; eric gidney ; eva marosy-weide ; fiona andreallo ; gabrielle finnane ; gail gadd ; gary carsley ; gary sangster ; gavan mcdonell ; george burchett ; helen grace ; hiramto ; ian howard ; ifmag ; jackie mckimmie ; jasmin stephens ; jodie cunningham ; joe airo-farulla ; john douglas ; john giesekam ; john hughes ; john stafford ; john villani ; jon cattapan ; julie ; karin emerton ; kate richards ; kim lewis ; les sinn ; liz ashburn ; marcello mercado ; margaret ; martin bloom ; martin sims ; max gimblett ; michael snelling ; michele barker ; michelle boulous walker ; msv greg/justin ; nola farman ; ogi pishev ; ognian pishev ; open studio/wro ; peter callas ; richard crampton ; robert boynes ; rosemary laing ; sally couacaud ; sara hourez Date: Saturday, 18 September 1999 12:30 Subject: Re: Allan Nairn detained All, I have received the following email from Gaylene Preston who is the producer of Punitive Damage (about New Zealand-Malaysian student Kamal Bamadhaj shot by the Indonesian military) - an excellent film that you should try to see if you haven't already. If anyone has ideas of how to help, she would appreciate it. Thanks Pat Fiske Dear Pat, I've just had some worrying news and am contacting you as I know you know how to get word around to those who care. Allan Nairn, the American journalist in PUNITIVE DAMAGE who gave evidence at the trial and was an eye witness to the massacre, has been arrested and detained in Dili. I'm really worried about him and wonder if there's people you can contact who are influencial who may have seen the film and could put some pressure on? political or publicity? Hope you are well. I have just been up country visiting a friend who is dying of breast cancer, and your film was very much on my mind. Love, Gaylene. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Jakarta, Sept. 14 (Lusa) - American journalist Allan Nairm, one of the last journalists remaining in the devastated East Timorese capital, was detained by Indonesian security forces Tuesday, the U.S. embassy in Jakarta said. An embassy spokeman said the correspondent of the New York publication The Nation "has been detained and is being interrogated by (Indonesian) police and military" in Dili. Nairm, who has been twice expelled from Indonesia in recent years for his reporting on East Timor, was detained while viewing the destruction caused in Dili by rampaging militia, who acted with the complicity of Indonesian forces. -Lusa- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:15:02 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Fw: news of Allan Nairn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit further information on Nairn's fate -----Original Message----- From: Pat Fiske To: fairskye@ozemail.com.au Date: Saturday, 18 September 1999 14:15 Subject: FW: news of Allan Nairn Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:31 AM http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0917-107.htm Indonesian Regime to Prosecute U.S. Journalist U.S. Newswire 17 Sep 9:58 Indonesian Regime to Prosecute U.S. Journalist To: National and International desks Contact: Amy Goodman, 212-209-2812 /UPDATE/ WASHINGTON, Sept. 17 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Benny Mateus, the chief justice of Nusa Tenggara Province intends to prosecute U.S. journalist Allan Nairn for two technical violations of Indonesian immigration law, a local immigration official in Kupang, West Timor has informed Nairn. Nairn is to be charged with engaging in unauthorized activities and overstaying his two-month visa. Both acts are considered illegal under sections 50 and 52 of the Indonesian immigration laws. If convicted, Nairn could face 10 years in prison. Nairn, who was arrested in Dili on September 14, was one of the last journalists reporting from East Timor. Indonesian forces transferred him to Kupang in West Timor, a part of Indonesia. A local immigration official, Mr. Zurya, has been interrogating Nairn at the immigration facility in downtown Kupang for several days. According to Indonesian officials in Kupang, while Mateus is seeking to charge Nairn, the Minister of Justice, Dr. Muladi, and the Minister of Information, Yunus Yosfiah, are inclined to deport Nairn. Kupang is not a safe place. The militia that have been terrorizing East Timor are now rampaging through the refugee camps in West Timor where more than 100,000 East Timorese now reside after being driven from their homes. Hostility to Westerners in Kupang is soaring. It is likely that a U.S. citizen like Nairn will be in great danger if he is not deported immediately. -0- /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ 09/17 09:58 Copyright 1999, U.S. Newswire ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:10:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: E TIMOR: Point Made by Nairn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is part of a recent communication from Allan Nairn who has now been arrested by the Indonesian govt (note, not the American govt). He is commenting on an atrocity he says he witnessed. I hope all the historians will note this closely. "The American govt also bears SOME of the responsibility." Course, as to what degree is difficult to measure on an atrocity by atrocity basis, but they do bear some. And further, "TNI/ABRI is led by murderers and is responsible." The TNI/ABRI is analogous to the Savac in Iran under the Shah, only more bloodthirsty. "I know that the army has put me on the black list. They did this because I watched their soldiers murder more than 271 people at the Santa Cruz cemetery. This crime was the responsibility of the Indonesian army commander, General Try Sutrisno and the Minister of Defense, General Benny Murdani. The murders were committed with American M-16 rifles. The American government also bears some of the responsibility because they have armed, trained, and given money to the TNI/ABRI, even though they knew the TNI/ABRI is led by murderers and is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Timorese, Acehnese, West Papuan and Indonesian civilians." --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 01:00:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: writing the bad text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Writing the Bad Text I started writing the bad text by describing Nikuko's body as represented in a three-dimensional image, a problem immediately in translation. I needed term after term for bulbous, distended, pubescent, extravagant, outlandish, globular, following the torus meshed, pulled out from the shape, sloped into Nikuko's incandescent form. I continued, transforming hard-s endings to -z, stars to starz, looking towards hacker/pop culture Krazy Kat Kuntry Kitchen for deep in-spiring. I mauled the text, took it bare-handed, caressing again that trite sexuality of seduction and sus- pense; I mauled the text, advertising the image of Nikuko's body, and by proxy, the images of her space, her mouth, her fingers, her bones -- hyp- nagogic and literally unforgettable images, images of transforming beauty. I repeatedly erred in the production of the text, using the display pro- gram for insertions and rearrangements that refused to accommodate the de- construction of narrative and intensity that might have brought the reader to his or her knees, oh gendered topography of Nikuko's body! I tried to salvage the work by giving the URL after the date, one addressing time and the other space, as if a last resort to facticity would salvage the rest of the failure. I saw the failure proceeding as a failure; now I wrote this text, in the present, in the past, in order to efface the other, work an astonishment of language, the wonder of newborn words from me to you. I am utterly ashamed; my abjection is a defense, even though I feel I sul- lied the display program itself by a failure to produce. Perhaps the fine quality of the images themselves could only detract from the text; perhaps the text was at the blue-jewel-nub of exhaustion. In any case, I'm sure it's gone stillborn and missing; I won't fail at cauterization. What's re- moved from the throat can only speak mechanically, like chattering teeth, somewhere outside the range of human hearing. __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 02:07:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: best version. Dear Chris, this is the right version. Love, Alan. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Writing the Bad Text I started writing the bad text by describing Nikuko's body as represented in a three-dimensional image, a problem immediately in translation. I needed term after term for bulbous, distended, pubescent, extravagant, outlandish, globular, following the torus meshed, pulled out from the shape, sloped into Nikuko's incandescent form. I continued, transforming hard-s endings to -z, stars to starz, looking towards hacker/pop culture Krazy Kat Kuntry Kitchen for deep in-spiring. I mauled the text, took it bare-handed, caressing again that trite sexuality of seduction and sus- pense; I mauled the text, advertising the image of Nikuko's body, and by proxy, the images of her space, her mouth, her fingers, her bones -- hyp- nagogic and literally unforgettable images, images of transforming beauty. I repeatedly erred in the production of the text, using the display pro- gram for insertions and rearrangements refuseing to accommodate the de- construction of narrative and intensity that might have brought the reader to his or her knees, oh gendered topography of Nikuko's body! I tried to salvage the work by giving the URL after the date, one addressing space and the other time, as if a last resort to facticity would efface the rest of the failure. I saw the failure proceeding as a failure; now I wrote this text, in the present, in the past, in order to negate the other, work an astonishment of language, the wonder of newborn words from me to you. I am utterly ashamed; my abjection is a defense, even though I feel I sul- lied the display program itself by a failure to produce. Perhaps the fine quality of the images themselves could only detract from the text; perhaps the text was at the blue-jewel-nub of exhaustion. In any case, I'm sure it's gone stillborn and missing; I won't fail at cauterization. What's re- moved from the throat can only speak mechanically, like chattering teeth, somewhere outside the range of human hearing. 09:18:1999:1:55:59 URL: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/bodi.gif (body) http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/nik.gif (mouth) http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/decon.gif (bones) http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/finger.jpg (fingers) http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/space.jpg (space) __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:50:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Creelea Henderson Subject: Re: Bunting in Persia In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990916161955.00a324f0@pop3.zipworld.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's what Bunting himself says he was doing in Persia, circa 1948: ". . . the journalists mostly ran away. They were terrified by mobs and by other threats. I have never seen people like them. Very few of them showed the slightest spunk of any sort. There was just one from the DAILY EXPRESS who was not afraid to go with me into the middle of a big riot. But, after the Greek journalist got hit on the head and was killed during a riot, the rest departed. It was shocking. I think all the cheap English papers and the American papers, without exception, disappeared within the next two or three days. In fact, all these kind of things are much less dangerous than people imagine. You can go about with threats against your life for a long time and nothing happens at all -- there's no use taking the slightest notice of them. I've been shot once or twice, and often had people looking for me supposed to be going to kill me if they could, but they never got around to it. If somebody hires a man to kill you, that man doesn't want to earn the money. He wants to get the money, but once he kills you he's taking a risk for it and he's not likely to kill you at all. One time there was a mob. I don't know quite who had hired them but I've no doubt they were hired all right. They came around and began shouting outside the door of the Riza in Teheran for my life. They *wanted* to kill me. And I sat in the flat of the Reuter's correspondent and watched for some time and then said I want to go hear what they're saying. And Reuter's man was a bit afraid to go out. I said what the hell, no one knows what I look like or anything. I went out. I walked into the crowd and stood amongst them and shouted DEATH TO MR. BUNTING! with the best of them, and nobody took the slightest notice of me. Another time, two men with pistols arrived at our door while I was taking an afternoon nap. My wife told them I wasn't in. That was all; they accepted that and went away again. There's no great determination on the part of hired assassins." --from the interview with Jonathan Williams, pub. 1968 as DESCANT ON RAWTHEY'S MADRIGAL. Given a better perspective on this side of the 1979 revolution, it's unfortunate that Bunting paints those early protests as paid contrivances--but then one is tempted to say that's Bunting for you. Probably he was too busy exercising his bravado to organize the coup (if that's what you were suggesting). He returned to the UK in 1951. Regardless, it seems to me Bunting is nearly impossible read as a model of an even remotely admirable political stance. I do find him fascinating, however, for the glimpse he affords into a worldview that I really think shan't come again. Impossibly self-assured, pointedly contemptuous of "cowards" and "frauds," beauty as a purifier of character containing its own absolute authority, and the like. But his work was only published post WWII, and the times had changed, were changing, beneath him. Yet he actually seems to will himself, even more than Pound, out of his own time, until his conservatism (though he wouldn't call it such), like the conservatism of the Amish, becomes a kind of pure eccentricity, no longer digestible even by conservatives. And he does know, on occasion, how to cram alotta furniture into a small space. "Guides at the top claim fees/though the way is random" Others, I understand, may not be able to consider Bunting's "Poet appointed dare not decline" pomposity a mere historical curiosity. And we've yet to mention his "Carmencita's tawny paps/glow through a threadbare frock," etc. Brent Cunningham At 04:25 PM 9/16/99 +1000, you wrote: >I'm not trying to deflect the worthwhile political drift of the List here, >but I've always wondered just what Basil Bunting was doing in Iran as a >British spy. > >My Hutchinson Encyclopeda says: > >"During World War II, Iran was occupied by British, US, and Soviet troops >until 1946. Anti-British and anti-American feeling grew and in 1951 the >newly elected prime minister, Dr Muhammad Mossadeq, obtained legislative >approval for the nationalilzation of Iran's largely foreign-owned petroleum >industry. With US connivance, he was deposed in a 1953 coup and the dispute >over nationalisation was settled the following year when oil-drilling >concessions were granted to a consortium of eight companies. " > >Basil? > >Basil? > > > -- John Tranter, editor, Jacket magazine > > > from > John Tranter, 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia > tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 > Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html > Homepage: five megabytes of glittering literature, free, at > http://www.alm.aust.com/~tranterj/index.html > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:15:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: SF Book Festival Panel Discussions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (Talk to Me) In My Language, a panel hosted by the 1999 San Francisco Bay Area Book Festival, October 16, 1999, 3:30 pm, Fort Mason, Marina Conference Center, San Francisco. Co-sponsored by Small Press Distribution and Modern Times Bookstore. A gathering of innovative writers of color, exploring the nuances and challenges of communication and community, tradition and experimentation, publishing and politics, from the perspectives of Will Alexander, Catalina Cariaga, Summi Kaipa, Pamela Lu, Nathaniel Mackey, Harryette Mullen. Moderated by Tisa Bryant. Will Alexander' is the author of Asia & Haiti (Sun & Moon, 1995), Stratospheric Canticles (Pantograph, 1995), Towards the Primeval Lightning Field (O Books, 1998), and his latest book of poems, Above The Human Nerve Domain (Pavement Saw Press, 1998). He has recent writing in the latest issues of Chain, Fence, Orpheus Grid, and in translation, a set of poems in the journal Vatra out of Bucharest, Romania. A special section of Callalloo, edited by Harryette Mullen and dedicated to the work of Mr. Alexander, is forthcoming, as is his novella, Alien Weaving, from Green Integer Press. Catalina Cariaga was born in Los Angeles, CA (1958) and received her Bachelors of Music from Mount St. Mary's College in Los Angeles, and her Masters of Fine Arts in Creative Writing from San Francisco State Unversity. She is a contributing editor of Poetry Flash, a Poetry Review and Literary Calendar for the West. She has taught on the adjunct faculty of the Poetics Program at New College of California in San Francisco. Her poetry has been published in many journals, including Chain, Lipstick 11, New American Writing and ZYZZYVA. Cultural Evidence is her first book of poetry (Subpress, 1999). She works for University Relations at UC Berkeley, and lives in Oakland. Summi Kaipa is the editor of Interlope, a journal of Asian American poetics. She has published work in Fourteen Hills Review, Kenning, Rhizome, Rain Taxi, Tool A Magazine and Tripwire . A chapbook of her poetic work is forthcoming from Leroy Press. Pamela Lu was born in Southern California and studied mathematics at the University of California, Berkeley. Since 1995 she has worked as a technical writer in Silicon Valley and co-edited Idiom (www.idiomart.com), an online journal and chapbook press. In addition to a book of fanciful non-fiction, Pamela: A Novel (Atelos Press,1999), she has had prose and poetry published in a number of journals, including Chain, Chicago Review, Clamour, Explosive Magazine, Interlope, Mirage, and Poetics Journal. She lives in San Francisco. Nathaniel Mackey is the author of several chapbooks and books of poetry, among them Four for Trane (Golemics, 1978), Outlantish (Chax Press, 1992) Eroding Witness (University of Illinois Press, 1985), School of Udhra (City Lights Books, 1993) and Whatsaid Serif (City Lights Books, 1998). Strick: Song of the Andoumboulou 16-25, a compact disc recording of poems read with musical accompaniment was released in 1995 by Spoken Engine Company. He is the author of an ongoing prose composition, From A Broken Bottle Traces of Perfume Still Emanate, of which two volumes have been published: Bedouin Hornbook (Callaloo Fiction Series, 1986; second edition: Sun & Moon Press,1997) and Djbot Baghostus's Run (Sun & Moon Press, 1993), and editor of the literary magazine Hambone, and coeditor (with Art Lange) of the anthology Moment's Notice: Jazz in Poetry and Prose (Coffee House Press, 1993). He is also the author of a book of critical essays, Discrepant Engagement: Dissonance, Cross-Culturality, and Experimental Writing (Cambridge University Press, 1993). Mr. Mackey is Professor of Literature at the University of California, Santa Cruz. Harryette Mullen's most recent book of poems, her fourth, is Muse and Drudge (Singing Horse Press, 1995). Her previous books of poems include Trimmings (Tender Buttons, 1991) and S*PeRM**K*T (Singing Horse Press, 1992). Ms. Mullen's work has just appeared or is forthcoming in Hambone, Moving Borders: An Anthology of Innovative Writing by Women, The Gertrude Stein Awards for Innovative Poetry, Santa Monica Review, Frame-Work, and the exhibit catalog of the Kimchi Xtravaganza at the Korean American Museum. She is also the author of Freeing the Soul: Race, Subjectivity and Difference in Slave Narratives, forthcoming from Cambridge University Press, December 1999. She teaches at the University of California, Los Angeles. ***************************************************************************** Followed by "Fast, Cheap and Out of Control: New Publishers at SPD", a panel of new SPD publishers will discuss and answer questions about running a successful small press today. The panel will be moderated by Laura Moriarty, Assistant Director of Small Press Distribution, and features: SKANKY POSSUM Hoa Nguyen, Dale Smith MELODEON POETRY SYSTEMS Peter Neufield, Eric Frost KRUPSKAYA Jocelyn Saidenberg, Hung Q. Tu FLIPSIDE Anatalio C. Ubalde ATELOS Lyn Hejinian, Travis Ortiz 20% OFF ALL BOOKS ALL DAY OCTOBER 16 & 17, 10-6PM SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA BOOK FESTIVAL ************************************************************ Today we declare: First, they are living in a Nono form; Second, they are Nono lives; Third, they make us feel Nono; Fourth, they make us become Nono; Fifth, we Nono. Lan Ma "Manifesto of Nonoism" (Chendu, China, May 4, 1986) *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:50:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: cid corman (still more) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I just got another letter from cid corman who now (why didn't i know this sooner?) says that he will be charged $35.00 either to cash a check or a wire transfer in japan, so if the amount of money that might be sent to him is small then the best bet is simply to stuff it in an envelope and hope for the best. if you haven't and are still inclined, send to: Cid Corman Fukuoji-cho 80 Utano Kyoto 616-8208 Japan. - Burt Kimmelman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:20:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Brook Subject: city lights books - fall events & readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For any listers in or about the San Francisco Bay Area, the following is an announcement of in-store events at City Lights Bookstore for September, October, and a smidgen of November. (NB: smidgen is a precise measurement.) --James Brook -------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events All City Lights events are free and open to the public. All events take place at City Lights Bookstore 261 Columbus Avenue San Francisco, CA 94133 415-362-8193 http://www.citylights.com = -------------------------------------------------- September | October | November -------------------------------------------------- September Events -------------------------------------------------- Tuesday, Sept. 21, 7 p.m. Promised Land: Italian Poetry After 1975 Edited by Luigi Ballerini, Beppe Cavatora, Elena Coda, and Paul Vangelisti A Bilingual Edition Published by Sun & Moon Classics The Istituto Italiano di Cultura and City Lights Books are pleased to present a reading and celebration of this delightful, comprehensive anthology of late-twentieth-century Italian poetry. Several of the authors will be in attendance. Please join us for this special event! [top] -------------------------------------------------- Thursday, Sept. 23, 7 p.m. L.A. Exile: A Guide to Los Angeles Writing 1932-1998 Edited by Paul Vangelisti and Evan Calbi Published by Marsilio Press A curious literature of exile: the writers of this anthology came from Europe, other parts of the United States, and disparate and invisible parts of California. Along with the familiar figures of prewar, exotic Hollywood, such as Raymond Chandler, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Aldous Huxley, and Thomas Mann, L.A. Exile offers a look at the successive generations who have addressed a different, ever-shifting, essentially boundless and absent metropolis. Paul Vangelisti will speak and sign copies of L.A. Exile. [top] -------------------------------------------------- October Events -------------------------------------------------- Friday, Oct. 1, 7 p.m. Loter=EDa Cards and Fortune Poems: A Book of Lives Linocuts by Artemo Rodr=EDguez Poems by Juan Felipe Herrera Published by City Lights Books Come celebrate with us the release of Loter=EDa Cards and Fortune Poems, the linoleum-cut prints of talented Mexican artist, Artemo Rodr=EDguez, paired with the poetry of the fine Chicano poet, Juan Felipe Herrera. Based on loter=EDa, a popular game of chance from colonial Mexico, the images are masterful reinterpretations of traditional iconography, as seen by an artist new to the United States. Loter=EDa Cards and Fortune Poems gives a contemporary twist to a rich folk tradition. Rodr=EDguez and Herrera offer a seamless union of word and image, and of Mexican and Chicano sensibilities. [top] -------------------------------------------------- Sunday, Oct. 3, 4 p.m. Distance No Object By Gloria Frym Published by City Lights Books Come join author Gloria Frym to celebrate the publication of her second book of short stories. In Distance No Object, Gloria Frym turns her ironic, passionate gaze to post-Vietnam Berkeley and San Francisco. Private lives are still swept along by the currents of history, as in the sixties. But the names of the wars of have changed. . . . The stories of Distance No Object evoke the deep frustrations between generations, friends, neighbors, and races. Yet civility, quotidian justice, a common language, and new love are imagined. . . . Gloria Frym's previous books include How I Learned, By Ear, Back to Forth, and Impossible Affection. [top] -------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, Oct. 13, 7 p.m. Honk if You Love Aphrodite By Daniel Evan Weiss Published by Serpent's Tail Press Acclaimed author of The Roaches Have No King and The Swine's Wedding, Daniel Evan Weiss reimagines Homer's Odyssey as set in contemporary Brooklyn. Described as "abundantly funny, exhilaratingly cynical" by Fay Weldon and the "Evil Knievel of novelists" by Newsday, Weiss takes us on an epic quest for love in the boroughs of the Big Apple. Come hear David Evan Weiss read from Honk if You Love Aphrodite. [top] -------------------------------------------------- Monday, Oct. 18, 6 p.m. Bookstore: The Life and Times of Jeannette Watson and Books & Co. By Lynne Tillman Published by Harcourt Brace From 1977 to 1997 Books & Co. was one of the premier independent bookstores in the country. Stocking a wide range of fiction and nonfiction, the Madison Ave. bookstore was the kind of bookstore writers and readers dream about: a place where reading was an adventure, where interesting works would always be available, where writers would congregate to share ideas and discuss their writing. In Bookstore, Lynne Tillman tells the story of this legendary bookstore and its founder, Jeannette Watson, through the voices of employees, customers, writers, fellow booksellers, and people throughout the world of publishing. Jeannette Watson will speak about Bookstore and her remarkable career. [top] -------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, Oct. 20, 7 p.m. Imperial San Francisco: Urban Power, Earthly Ruin By Gray Brechin Published by University of California Press Local urban geographer and coauthor of Farewell, Promised Land: Waking from the California Dream, Gray Brechin offers a myth-shattering reevaluation not only of the city by the Golden Gate but of urbanization itself in a saga that extends from the rise of ancient Rome to the founding of Washington, D.C., to the nuclear destruction of Hiroshima. Gray Brechin will speak and sign copies of his books. [top] -------------------------------------------------- Thursday, Oct. 21, 7 p.m. Two new books by William L. Fox-- Mapping the Empty: Eight Artists and Nevada Published by University of Nevada Press & Driving by Memory Published by University of New Mexico Press William L. Fox is literature consultant for the Western States Arts Federation, a poet and writer, an arts consultant, and a curator. He has published poems and articles in sixty magazines and he has had thirteen collections of poetry published in three countries. He is the author of several exhibition catalogues and the editor of two anthologies. Mapping the Empty relates the unique work of eight Nevada artists to the geography of their state. Driving by Memory is a meditation on driving in the desert. It is a profoundly personal book about the most public of subjects: life in the postmodern West at the end of the millennium and what the cities, the freeways, the open spaces, and the billboards tell us about ourselves. William L. Fox will be on hand to sign copies of his new books. [top] -------------------------------------------------- Sunday, Oct. 31, 5 p.m. The Vampire Lectures By Lawrence Rickles Published by University of Minnesota Press Things get spooky in cultural studies on Halloween! The Vampire Lectures is based on the course that Lawrence Rickles has taught for several years at the University of California, Santa Barbara. Rickles gives undead history of vampirism in legend, literature, and film. The Vampire Lectures makes an original and intellectually rigorous contribution to literary and psychoanalytic theory as Rickles identifies the subconscious meanings, complex symbolism, and philosophical arguments--particularly those of Marx, Freud, and Nietzsche--embedded in vampirism and the gothic. Come meet Lawrence Rickles before the lights go out! [top] -------------------------------------------------- November Events -------------------------------------------------- Tuesday, Nov. 16, 7 p.m. The Monstrous and the Marvelous By Rikki Ducornet Published by City Lights Books In her first book of essays and interviews, Rikki Ducornet focuses her "fearless looking" on contemporary art, literature, and politics. She examines the scatological clocks of Jonathan Swift and Angela Carter, the cabalistic dada of Robert Coover, and the lethal eroticism of David Lynch and the Brothers Quay. The works of Clarice Lispector, Ram=F3n Alejandro, Joseph Cornell, Rosamond Purcell, Kafka, and Borges are occasions for investigation into a subversive aesthetic of terror and pleasure. In The Monstrous and the Marvelous Ducornet gives us NAFTA as Babel and Chiapas as gnostic nightmare. Rikki Ducornet is also the author of Entering Fire (City Lights Books), The Stain, The Fountains of Neptune, The Jade Cabinet, and Phosphor in Dreamland. She makes a rare appearance to speak and sign copies of her new book. [top] -------------------------------------------------- = Copyright =A9 1999 City Lights Books ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:54:30 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lawrence Upton." Organization: Mainstream Comments: To: brit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Writers Forum announces the publication of 6 more issues of Domestic Ambient Noise. They are: "bah!" by Bob Cobbing & Lawrence Upton; Writers Forum, 1999; ISBN 0 86162 89 0 X "bah-amas" by Lawrence Upton & Bob Cobbing; Writers Forum, 1999; ISBN 0 86162 891 8 "raffish" by Bob Cobbing & Lawrence Upton; Writers Forum, 1999; ISBN 0 86162 892 6 "naff" by Lawrence Upton & Bob Cobbing; Writers Forum, 1999; ISBN 0 86162 893 4 "inhabit the kick" by Bob Cobbing & Lawrence Upton; Writers Forum, 1999; ISBN 0 86162 894 2 "kick that habit" by Lawrence Upton & Bob Cobbing; Writers Forum, 1999; ISBN 0 86162 895 0 Each is £1 sterling + postage. Discounts for multiple copies. Sterling cheques only please Order from New River Project, 89a Petherton Road, London N5 2QT. Enquiries with s.a.e. / i.r.c. please ---------------------------------------------- Writers Forum website http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~writersforum/ ---------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:02:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: IMAGINING LANGUAGE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } interesting ------ a fair number of folks wrote me backchannel to express a thought or two about the book in question ----- thanx to all of you, i was clearly overstating when i suggested that there weren't many who were up to the task of reviewing it ----- yet stand by the statement in spirit still cd anyone give me emails for steve mccaffery and jed rasula and MIT press ? ------ i'd like to give them a piece of my mind ----- tom orange talks in his review about the anthology "industry" and of critics who write specifically about anthologies ------ tom, no offense, but i don't care too much about that ----- that this amazing book is unlikely to be used as a classroom text, while lamentable, doesnt matter very much to me ------- it is my belief that short of insuring that a copy be installed in every public library in the country the best measure that MIT cd take wd be to put the entire text on-line ----- as has been discussed here previously such actions have shown to actually boost sales of the books available in this way further i wd love to see SMcM and JR be able to add more material to what's on-line ----- addenda and appendixes and whatever else they'd have loved to have included but which wd have made thing impossible to see into print ----- and still further i'd love to see others who've special knowledge of things hinging with the veritable universe of things which one might include as within the scope of this book, i should like to see them be able to contribute as well i was serious when i said that i didnt think the book was over-priced ----- at the same time, had i not been the recent beneficiary of some holiday money i'd still not own the book (altho i must admit to the possibility however slight, that i might have stolen it) ---- its considerations of this kind (the cost not jail time) that make me think that the book ought to be available on line ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:15:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Mudlark Announcement In-Reply-To: <37E01D1A.89B2D725@concentric.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 19 Michael Baron | doubt can bring you light * * * * * * * * * * * Spread the word far and wide... William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:09:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: TERVOUKLE: IDENTITY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" TERVOUKLE: IDENTITY Documents are linear teleorphinations. Tables are grandiloqueporcations. Manners are fertiliregrinations. Chalices are infovarications. Intellemorganating in the gutter, An alcoholimeritrist may utter: I much prefertorilifize butter To living in the fuduruckable gutter. My identity is telemordopted, And I have been technically coopted Intorout the service of the craneorum. But here I stand alone amid the forum. As zeugmafores fly sprawling on the wind, my alphatrones are comfortably ginned. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:31:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Small Press Announcements deadline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The deadline for this weeks Small Press Publications Announcements page at Duration online is this Friday. Any publisher who wishes their books/journals/etc. listed, please send all relevant information--titles, authors, prices, contact/ordering information/brief blurbs/& web addresses (if applicable), to Jerrold Shiroma @ jerrold@durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:25:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: MC Richards Comments: To: Poetics List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From today's NY Times. I had not realized that she lived just 15 miles away. Ron ----------------------- September 20, 1999 M.C. Richards, Poet, Potter and Essayist, Dies at 83 By ROBERTA SMITH M. C. Richards, a poet, potter, essayist, translator and painter, who taught at Black Mountain College in the late 1940's and thereafter became an impassioned advocate of community in both art and life, died on Friday at Camphill Village, an agricultural community in Kimberton, Pa., where she had lived since 1984. She was 83. An artist who wrote poems about pottery and made pots inspired by her reading, Ms. Richards was perhaps best known for "Centering in Pottery, Poetry and the Person," a book of essays published in the middle of the tumultuous 1960's that was impressive for its synthesis of thought, plain speech and incantatory momentum. The book, which became an underground classic, pulled together ideas about perception, craft, education, creativity, religion and spirituality, arguing for the richness of daily experience if carefully attended to, and the creativity of the average person. "Poets are not the only poets," Ms. Richards wrote. Mary Caroline Richards was born in Weiser, Idaho, in 1916 and reared in Portland, Ore. She earned a bachelor's degree in literature and languages from Reed College in 1937, with a thesis titled "Poetry of the Tang Dynasty in Relation to Western Imagism." She went on to the University of California at Berkeley, where she studied Chinese and wrote her Ph.D. dissertation on irony in Thomas Hardy in 1942. She then began a brief marriage, and taught English at the Central Washington College of Education in Ellensburg, Wash., and at the University of Chicago. But she found academic life stifling. In 1945 she married Albert William Levi Jr., her second husband and a social scientist who was invited that year to join the faculty of the experimental Black Mountain College, near Asheville, N.C. Black Mountain was a short-lived laboratory for innovative teaching and art whose faculty and students included Josef and Anni Albers, John Cage, Merce Cunningham, David Tudor, Robert Rauschenberg and Charles Olson. At Black Mountain Ms. Richards taught writing, produced and, when necessary, translated plays by Cocteau, Satie and Yeats. She also danced and studied pottery with Robert Turner. Around 1950 she participated in what might have been the first "happening," with Cage, Olson, Rauschenberg and Franz Kline. In 1951 she separated from her husband, whom she later divorced, and in 1952 she went to New York with Tudor. She studied pottery at Greenwich House in Greenwich Village, attended the meetings of the downtown avant-garde known as the Club and worked on the first English translation of Antonin Artaud's influential "Theater and Its Double," published by Grove Press in 1958. In 1954 Ms. Richards, Tudor and Cage, along with Paul Williams, an architect, and Karen Karnes, a potter, who had both also been at Black Mountain, established a commune called the Land near Stony Point, N.Y. Ms. Richards lived there for a decade, working in a studio with Ms. Karnes; they developed a form of flame-proof clay that enabled them to make ceramic cookware. Ms. Richards began giving pottery workshops in the early 1960's. Reflecting the ideas that would figure in "Centering," these became increasingly interdisciplinary, with titles like "Clay and Words," "Clay and Movement" and "Clay and Eurythmy." She lectured and taught workshops at schools in the United States, Canada and Britain. Her longest teaching affiliation, from 1986 until her death, was with the University of Creation Spirituality, established in Oakland, Calif., by Matthew Fox, a Dominican priest. Ms. Richards's books, which often mixed prose and poetry, included "The Crossing Point" (1973), "Opening Our Moral Eye" (1996), "Imagine Inventing Yellow" (1991) and "Toward Wholeness: Rudolf Steiner Education in America," a work of social philosophy. The Camphill community in Kimberton is one of 80 Camphills worldwide based on Steiner's teachings. In 1989 Ms. Richards, who has no survivors, added painting to her roster of activities. She then exhibited ceramics, poems and paintings together, most recently at the Works Gallery in Philadelphia in 1997. The Worcester Center for Crafts in Massachusetts is organizing a retrospective of her work that is to open on Oct. 9, with a public memorial. Ms. Richards embraced old age with characteristic openness, writing a poem in 1997 in which she saw herself as "living toward dying, blooming into invisibility." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:15:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: ANNOUNCING 9 TO 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing the first issue of NINE TO ZERO MAGAZINE. Featuring: New visual work by *RAY DI PALMA* Poems by *LISA JARNOT* and *JACK KIMBALL* Raster Drawings by *SIGMAR POLKE* Nine to zero is only $2.50 Please make checks payable to Jacques Debrot 49 Old Meetinghouse Road Norton, MA 02766 Future issues will appear approx every 2 months and will present work by Mary Burger, Jordan Davis, Michael Magee, Dieter Roth, Yayoi Kusama and many others. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:30:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: US/Aus/Indonesia/E Timor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Believe me Patrick, the US Govt is far, far more stupid than malevolent. > > And again, I think you are wrong. Actually, I know this is wrong. There > are people in the government much more intelligent than you or me. And they > plan, they know about contingencies, it's their lives. Me, I'm just farting > around on a keyboard. They often do things and call them mistakes, because > it fools us into a comfortable position of superiority, albeit poorly > founded. >Oh, no no no, a thousand times no, they are NOT more intelligent than you, >or me! There's nothing wrong with modesty in the face of greater experience. Perhaps false modesty - I would at least consider those involved as my intellectual equal. I would hardly call myself superior to these people. If I did, I would be guilty of the same crap they are. they are well-educated, book-savvy, thinkers with intellectual gifts, and so on. Not all of these people are that smart. George Bush is not exactly a genius. But there are others that are. >Do you think your govt (whatever that really means, NSA? CIA? Congress? West Wing White House) is composed of Zarathustrian supermen? I don't know how smart you are, but it doesn't take a Zarathustrian superman to be smarter than me. To clarify again, there are people involved who are very intelligent. As far as organizations go, these people are distributed across many orgs. Some have more power than others. >This is one of the key factors to accepting such theories. I happen to >know CIA, e.g., exhibits all the characteristics of a dumb bureaucracy >living in a denial culture. Bureaucrats in CIA even hide things from each >other. The behaviors are astonishing and hysterical. I don't know much about the common desk bureaucrat. I would agree with you there. Those aren't the individuals I'm talking about. >How else to explain the Ames spying success and being caught unawares when communism fell in eastern europe. Well, that depends on you imagination, or your connections. Perhaps it would be best to explain it by the facts. And the basc rule of thumb in intelligence field work is, everyone has to talk sometime. All people with clearance reveal their secrets at some time on their lives (unless they get snuffed before the opportunity is seized). So Ames took that very human nature a bit further. It's not as uncommon as the news reports we get about it. for every Ames there are 10 more in the CIA. If that tells you anything. >Agencies fight with each other for control constantly, bureau chiefs fight, >their is continuous turmoil and upheaval with these stratifications. Sure. No one's arguing with that. Of course they're human, there are bureaucrats in gov't organizations. But they're not all bureaucrats. >But I don't expect you to accept this on face value. Whatever that means (doh!). Patrick ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:53:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Beating drums Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Whoa. Pretty stunning. Thanks for the clarification. : P Patrick Herron Michael Neff said: >These are the same people who argue that Marxism is a credible >political >alternative and that the shout of freedom heared in eastern Europe >many >years ago was nothing but a CIA manipulation. They only have >one drum >and they bang it continuously while chanting America is Evil, >America is >Evil, thereby seeking the solace of moral high ground and >community >forever lost to them in the sixties. Well, Michael, the caricature you draw above of those who find fault in your arguments seems the perfectly-traced image of the "dogmatism" you claim to despise. No one has said that those wielding the guns and machetes on the ground are morally blameless. Where did you get that one? The reason people are upset with you, I think (though your argument is not worth getting as upset about as some apparently have in back- channel), is that you are so unwilling to recognize a simple something which should be self-evident: Local legacies, down to a machete's fine edge, are implicated in global histories. And in a country like Indonesia, whose history and political present are inextricable from imperialist intrigue and manipulation, this is quite evidently the case. But to you, it seems, the use of "primitive," non-Pentagon supplied machetes is the anthropological sign that shows the violence for what it autochthonously is-- yet one more primal spasm in a culture condemned to repeated blood-letting. You challenge people to prove otherwise. And so people (while not disagreeing that violence is, indeed, primal) have given you ample evidence that the current strife has manifested itself inside specific conditions that our government (along with other imperialist powers) has had a considerable hand in creating and perpetuating, having helped to install and then unflaggingly abet, as it has, the same party that now organizes the machete wielders. The irony here is that it is up to you, really, to show that this history of which people have spoken has little to do with the past and present suffering in East Timor. You haven't. And you end your intervention in this discussion, even, by suggesting that the history doesn't exist except in the minds of America-Is-Evil shouting poet- spooks trapped in a 60's induced psychosis. Deep denial is a form of psychosis, Michael. I wonder if there is a clinical name for the kind where the victim's ears are filled with the sound of beating drums? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:02:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Highsmith Subject: Philip Whalen / Scalapino Leslie Scalapino has asked that I report that Philip Whalen is back in the hospital (Mount Zion, 1600 Divisidero, San Francisco) and can receive cards there for about the next twelve days after which it is assumed that he will be released, having completed his course of treatment. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:13:42 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Mills, Billy" Subject: Novels of the 60's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF0350.D1D53F46" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0350.D1D53F46 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Is it just me, or does anyone else find it ironic that, in the middle of all this debate about U.S. imperialism, someone seems to be suggesting that certain novels belong to the 60's because they became available in the U.S. in that decade? Billy Mills Billy Little wrote: Subject: Re: novels of the 60's lady chatterley's lover henry miller ullysses lolita and i thought ginger man were forbidden in the states until maybe the howl trial or was that in 57 too? Didn't the 60's start in 55? and end with the murder of john lennon?was that 79? forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0350.D1D53F46 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Novels of the 60's

Is it just me, or does = anyone else find it ironic that, in the middle of all this debate about = U.S. imperialism, someone seems to be suggesting that certain novels = belong to the 60's because they became available in the U.S. in that = decade?

Billy Mills


Billy Little wrote:

Subject: Re: novels of the = 60's

lady chatterley's = lover
henry miller
 ullysses
 lolita
and i thought ginger = man
were forbidden in the = states until maybe the howl trial or was that in 57 too?
Didn't the 60's start in = 55? and end with the murder of john lennon?was that 79?


forbidden plateau fallen = body dojo
4 song st.
nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0
canadaddy
zonko@mindless.com
<a = href=3Dwww.zap.to/zonko.html>zonko</a>


------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0350.D1D53F46-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:05:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: A drum on my head MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear List, if I may be allowed a clarification over the two suspisciously similar posts just put up ("Beating Drums" and "The Sound of Drums"): I had written our dear moderator asking that he withdraw the hastily-written former one and substitute it with the more considered latter one. Alas, he did not get to my b-c note in time. Thus you now have a revised post and an awkward trace of its textual history, tho much to my chagrin, as I would rather you had thought my second post composed in one fell-swoop of Marxist-inspired incandescent heat. thank you, Kent ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:08:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: poetics list backlog - please read MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We seem to be developing a backlog of messages, increased participation due no doubt to the return of the academic year, as well as to a few rather heated discussions happening now on the list. As to the latter, I would suggest we might endeavor collectively to keep things on an even keel, so to speak. At its best, the list runs on reasoned dissent as the exchange of views and ideas; it stalls on rancour. Now, the backlog I want to clear out as soon as possible, meaning that I intend to send a good number of messages over the next few days. It would be helpful if posting were kept to a minimum until, say, Thursday late; this I will leave to all of you. Be prepared, in any case, to see quite a bit of mail coming through. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:48:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christina Milletti Subject: How US trained butchers of Timor article in Lon. Obs. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE LONDON OBSERVER, Sunday September 19, 1999 How US trained butchers of Timor Exclusive: Washington trained death squads in secret while Britain has spent L1m helping Indonesian army Indonesia and East Timor: special report Ed Vulliamy in New York and Antony Barnett Indonesian military forces linked to the carnage in East Timor were trained in the United States under a covert programme sponsored by the Clinton Administration which continued until last year. The Observer can also disclose that the Government has spent about L1 million in training more than 50 members of the Indonesian military in Britain since it came to power. Human rights campaigners claim a number of these are likely to have links with those complicit in the attrocities. The US programme, codenamed 'Iron Balance', was hidden from legislators and the public when Congress curbed the official schooling of Indonesia's army after a massacre in 1991. Principal among the units that continued to be trained was the Kopassus - an elite force with a bloody history - which was more rigorously trained by the US than any other Indonesian unit, according to Pentagon documents passed to The Observer last week. Kopassus was built up with American expertise despite US awareness of its role in the genocide of about 200,000 people in the years after the invasion of East Timor in 1975, and in a string of massacres and disappearances since the bloodbath. Amnesty International describes Kopassus as 'responsible for some of the worst human rights violations in Indonesia's history'. The Pentagon documents - obtained by the US-based East Timor Action Network and Illinois congressman Lane Evans - detail every exercise in the covert training programme, conducted under a Pentagon project called JCET (Joint Combined Education and Training). They show the training was in military expertise that could only be used internally against civilians, such as urban guerrilla warfare, surveillance, counter-intelligence, sniper marksmanship and 'psychological operations'. Specific commanders trained under the US programme have been tied to the current violence and to some of the worst massacres of the past 20 years, including the slaughter at Kraras in 1983 and at Santa Cruz in 1991. The US-trained commanders include the son-in-law of the late dictator General Suharto, Prabowo Subianto, and his mentor, General Kiki Syahnakri - the man appointed last week by the so-called 'reform' government as commissioner for martial law in East Timor. The secret programme unveiled in the document became the focus for military training when above-board aid was curtailed by Congress after the Santa Cruz massacre. Congress had stepped in after up to 270 peaceful protesters - many of them schoolchildren - were murdered by Kopassus shock troops as they paraded through Dili. American sponsorship of the Indonesian regime began as a matter of Cold War ideology, in the wake of defeat in Vietnam. The left-wing movement in East Timor was feared by Jakarta and seen by the US as an echo of those in southern Africa and of Salvador Allende's government in Chile. Jakarta's harassment of the Timor government and the invasion of 1975 were duly encouraged by the United States. The training of Indonesia's officer corps peaked during the mid-Eighties. In 1990 a former official at the US Embassy in Jakarta cabled the State Department to say US sponsorship had been 'a big help to the (Indonesian) army. They probably killed a lot of people and I probably have a lot of blood on my hands'. But the horror of Santa Cruz in 1991, when trucks were seen dumping bodies in the sea, was too much. The US decided that the training, while still available, should be paid for by the recipient nation - in other words, it would no longer be military aid. The covert programme then became the main means of training Indonesia's military - still at the American taxpayers' expense. In an undated prospectus, the Pentagon says the prime mission was to 'to develop, organise, equip, train, advise and direct indigenous militaries'. The scale was small, to offer concentrated 'significant special training' which would create 'self-sufficient small units'. In 1996, for instance, 10 exercises involved 376 US personnel and 838 Indonesians or 'loyal' Timorese. Britain also made a significant contribution to Indonesia's military training. The Observer has established that, since May 1997, 24 senior members of Indonesia's forces have been trained in UK military colleges. This included training in running military units efficiently and how to used technical equipment like guided missiles. In addition, 29 Indonesian officers have studied at non-military establishments. Revelations of the extent to which Labour has used taxpayers' money to aid the Indonesian military has angered many MPs, who claim it makes a mockery of Foreign Secretary Robin Cook's 'ethical foreign policy'. In the last four years of the Tory Government, only one Indonesian soldier was trained in the UK. Ann Clwyd, the Labour chair of the all-party group on human rights, has previously shown that Indonesian military trained here have subsequently committed atrocities. She said: 'It is simply not acceptable that we have been training these people. We know the police, the army, the militia are all interlinked. How many of those trained by this Government are now involved in the East Timor operation?' Last week both America and Australia suspended military co-operation with Indonesia. Funding for the military training would have been made available by the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence through the Defence Military Assistance Fund. Earlier this year Defence Minister Doug Henderson admitted that training one Indonesian navy officer at the Joint Service Command and Staff College and another on the International Principal Warfare Course at HMS Dryad cost the Government L170,000. Many of the Indonesian officers were trained at the Royal Military College at Shrivenham, Oxfordshire, as part of a ' private and commercial initiative' by Cranfield University. As well as courses on managing army units, the training includes map-making and electronics. In the past two years the Foreign Office has also given L200,000 to eight Indonesian high-flyers through its Chevening scholarship programme. This included two policemen, two from the army and two from the navy. On Friday, the Indonesian authorities stopped three servicemen taking up their scholarships. Both the Ministry of Defence and Foreign Office defend the training given as 'constructive engagement'. A spokesman for the MoD said: 'It is a way of ensuring professionalism in foreign armies. It encourages higher standards, good governance and greater respect for human rights.' The Foreign Office points out that many of the Indonesian officers on non-military courses are studying subjects such as international law and human rights. Last summer seven members of Kopassus finished a post-graduate course in defence studies at Hull University. The Ministry of Defence arranged the deal after liaising with General Prabowo. Although the course was initiated before the general election, it started after Labour's victory. George Robertson, then Defence Secretary, was happy for it to continue. Despite Prabowo's links to atrocities in East Timor, Robertson once described him as 'enlightened'. The Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook, meanwhile, says in today's Observer that 'there is a mopping-up operation to be done in Britain on the myths that have mushroomed among commentators who have only discovered the plight of East Timor in the last fortnight'. He denies that Britain has 'armed Indonesia to the teeth', or provided weapons to the militias, and says that Britain has not given fresh subsidies to buy Hawk trainers. Amnesty International's East Timor country specialist, Deborah Sklar, traces the regime's 'over-reliance on thuggish military operations' as being due to the demands of the foreign investment community and even from the World Bank. She cites a blueprint called The East Asian Miracle, written by US Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers, in which he urges governments to 'insulate' themselves from 'pluralist pressures' and to suppress trade unions. This, she says, became a primary Kopassus role during the years of training by the United States. 'If the US,' says Sklar, 'has supplied to the Indonesians equipment that has been concerned in the perpetration of human rights abuses, then that is an outrage.' ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:26:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Majzels Subject: New Book by Erin Mour=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Moveable Type Books of Toronto announces its very first publication, under the imprint a Moveable Text: Pillage Laud by Erin Mour=E9 "To say anything valid about sex, love, thought, the body, "identity," in this era requires immense dislocatory practices." "A poem," says Fernando Pessoa, "is an idea made emotion, communicated to others by means of a rhythm." Pillage Laud is a major long poem that selects or pillages from pages of computer-generated sentences to produce "lesbo sex poems," by "pulling through" or "inciting" certain found vocabularies. The basic compositional unit of Pillage Laud is not the word, but the "sentence," randomly generated and pillaged manually =8B then arranged, altered. Given. Idea, emotion, rhythm. Every lexicon allows infinite permutations, most of which the mind=B9s strictures reject, or can=B9t think of. Pillage Laud takes the limited lexicon and syntactical set of MacProse (a sentence-generating computer program created by Charles O. Hartman) to build rhythms and to grasp what the mind refuses. On the "micro" level, the individual sentences are immediately breathtaking and mysterious. Devoid of clich=E9, replete with dazzling subterranean connections, they open up meaning and sensation. On the "macro" level, Mour=E9 assembles lines to produce a larger reading through successive, repetitive contextualizations. Gradually characters arise: an I, a you, a her=8A. a triangle of agony, grief and love that won=B9t stop even when the border of thought and circumstance is uncertain. In Pillage Laud, Erin Mour=E9 has taken the mad risk of surrendering intentio= n and authorship to language; the result is a thwack of utopian pleasure through which both she and the reader emerge forever restructured and entwined. ************ Erin Mour=E9 is the author of seven collections of poetry and a Canadian Governor General=B9s Award winner. She lives and works in Montr=E9al, Qu=E9bec. Her most recent book: _A Frame of the Book_ aka _The Frame of a Book_ (Anansi - Toronto and Sun & Moon Press - LA 1999). ************ From Pillage Laud: She advanced. A degree: every belt=B9s hutch in the thought narratives. The agreement (information) was metabolism along force. Had you died? To twist is land. To unbend advances. Tension is pulling her. Your silence so substantial a valour. The revolution had uncorked my rhythm, and affection was augmenting. Certain stresses cured beds; the equation of living must listen. Flesh progressed, but her system was a station. Your gesture starts to assemble some living beam. Shall you permit every vandal=B9s fist trilling your bowl? I travel. She is so unclad an opportunity, your prince clearly flows. We were those cheap dilemmas. These galleries crawl: so intense a purpose. The narrative tracks you. Struggles will exercise unbent until the identity villages can cry out, or close. vandal tissue curl plaster smell body bent Pillage Laud is 8" x 9", perfect-bound, 99 pages plus one unbound inserted page. The entire book including cover is digitally printed directly from the electronic page-layout files; no films or plates are used. The process of representation continues to dissolve=8A. nowhere is there a picture, the book=B9s status as a true copy of a true original is in doubt: one does not know if the copy one holds is one of hundreds, or unique. ************* ISBN: 0-9684908-0-8 Regular price: CAN$25 plus 7% GST in Canada plus $3 shipping Special LIMITED TIME Offer to List members: US$20 including shipping to a US address CAN$22 includes GST, as well as shipping to Can address GP=A312 includes shipping to the United Kingdom There is also a SPECIAL LIMITED EDITION: Wire-bound and lettered A to Z and signed by author: CAN$40 plus GST plus shipping (no discount, sorry). To Order: Send a cheque or money order made out to "Erin Moure" to: Robert Majzels 3555, rue Berri, app. 1806 Montr=E9al (Qu=E9bec) H2L 4C4 Canada email: bobei@odyssee.net -- Robert Majzels bobei@odyssee.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:40:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: Twenty Years Ago Today Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" These years, under the gun (I speak somewhat metaphorically) of global competition, it is hard enough to keep one's place on the page of the present, with one upshot being the erasure of our history. If anyone would be interested in contributing such at however irregular intervals, please do. Here's today's anniversary : 20 September, 1979 Ron Silliman collaborating with Judith Barry as the culmination of a six-week, once-a-week series held at The Farm, SF, and called "Verbal Eyes," joint workings between poets and visual artists. --Ron, *if you have time* , can you tell us something about this? What has become of Judith Barry, do you know? David. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:30:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Metastasis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Metastasis Tha faallng th$t flash h$s laft ma, th$t bpnas $ra hald by phpnamas np lpngar sppkan, th$t tha Symbpl by tha Ha$rth h$s ch$rrad:If I can't write, I won't be able to wait for you, O Existence. I am afraid of opposites, each and everywhere.:W$ltlng: I $m $fr$ld pf lpslng my $blllty tp wrlta. I $m $fr$ld pf npn-axlstanca.:dissolved forever: W$ltlng: I $m $fr$ld pf lpslng my $blllty tp wrlta. I $m $fr$ld pf npn-axlstanca. transforms Your Tha faallng th$t flash h$s laft ma, th$t bpnas $ra hald by phpnamas np lp- ngar sppkan, th$t tha Symbpl by tha Ha$rth h$s ch$rrad on Burning Creek... Ah, Living with Levels and Blues!thraa hhndrad calls ln tha bpy tast tast: two hundred twenty bonesin the girl test test test:pna hhndrad twanty bpnas ln tha bpy tast tast:eight hundred cells in the girl test test test: Devour me eight hundred cells in the girl test test test Brought Forth through thraa hhndrad calls ln tha bpy tast tast! ___________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:59:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CharSSmith@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Imagining Language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thames & Hudson published a third edition in 1997. Pretty sure it's still in print. --cs << does any one know ofwhere i can find copies of phillip's _Humument_? >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:46:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: Buffalo gals (or guys)? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Syracuse must really be getting to me, because on my recent trip to Buffalo to see Susan Howe read (so incredible! so refreshing to see scholarship so gracefully wedded to personal poetics!) Buffalo itself seemed a sliver of heaven. Great bookstores, good places to eat, unbelievable library, etc., etc. I'm really interested in going beyond the UB web site to find out more about the poetics program, so if there's anyone out there currently getting their PhD there, or who has their PhD from that program, and who would be willing to answer my myriad of questions, would you please backchannel me? Thanks, Arielle acgreenb@syr.edu **************************************************************************** "I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I describe." -- Ray Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:43:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Not to forget: ~A Nest of Ninnies,~ John Ashbery and James Schuyler . Collaborative novels published as early as the '60's may really be the strongest harbingers of certain "authorial" prerogatives that have since quite come into question. And I must check my bookshelf at home to be sure of the title and co-author(s) of that other great ('60's?) collab-novel, ~Antlers in the treetops~/~Antlers in the branches,~ Ron Padgett & --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:10:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Plot against E Timor/UN lets Indonesian troops stay/1975 murder of journalists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed South China Morning Post Thursday, September 16, 1999 Plot to crush E Timor ANNEMARIE EVANS in Macau The political cleansing of East Timor was planned as early as February, one of the militia leaders present at a meeting which hatched the deadly plot has revealed. Tomas Goncalves, 54, the former head of the 400-strong PPPI (Peace Force and Defender of Integration) militia said the killings had been agreed at a meeting on February 16 in the East Timorese capital, Dili. He said the talks were organised by the head of the SGI, the secret intelligence organisation of the (Indonesian) military's Kopassus special forces. The head, Lieutenant-Colonel Yahyat Sudrajad, called for the killing of pro-independence movement leaders, their children and even their grandchildren, Mr Goncalves said. Not a single member of their families was to be left alive, the colonel told the meeting. Mr Goncalves said that also present were the heads of other militias covering the 12 regions of East Timor, including Eurico Guterres, of the Aitarak militia, and Joao Tavares of Besi Merah Putih. According to Mr Goncalves, the colonel said many soldiers had died in East Timor and that it would be difficult for troops to leave the enclave because if they did, they would lose face. They were determined not to abandon their supporters in the territory. The meeting came after President Bacharuddin Habibie announced on January 27 that he might consider independence for East Timor. On February 11, a day after resistance leader Xanana Gusmao was moved from jail to house arrest, Mr Habibie said East Timor's future could be decided by the end of the year. Mr Goncalves said: "The agenda for the meeting included funding and arming of the militias, food and other supplies." His revelations leave no doubt about the connection between Jakarta and the militias, or about the direct line of command. Mr Goncalves said Colonel Sudrajad had received orders before the meeting from regional military commander Colonel Tono Suratman, who was answerable to General Adam Daimiri in command of Bali, East Timor and West Timor. General Daimiri in turn answered to General Zacky Anwar in Jakarta, himself the former head of Kabia, Indonesia's national intelligence body. The meeting set the hour for the start of the political cleansing as midnight on May 1. However, on February 17, the following day, the militias began to kill throughout East Timor, launching attacks in Maliana, Atabai, Kailako and elsewhere. The survivors fled to churches and priests' houses for protection. On March 26, Governor of East Timor Abilio Soares gave orders at a meeting, again attended by Mr Goncalves, that the priests and nuns should be killed. Mr Goncalves said: "I could not stand it. I told them I have no problem fighting the [pro-independence] guerillas, but as a Catholic I could not kill priests and nuns and attack the Church." Because of his stand, Mr Goncalves came under suspicion. He fled Jakarta on April 18 and is now in Macau. Violence worsened dramatically in East Timor after the result of the UN-organised ballot was announced on September 4, showing support for independence. Hundreds, possibly thousands of people were killed by the militias, encouraged or helped by troops. Government and military spokesmen were unavailable for comment last night. ** End of text from cdp:reg.easttimor ** *********************************************************************** This material came from the Institute for Global Communications (IGC), a non-profit, unionized, politically progressive Internet services provider. For more information, send a message to igc-info@igc.org (you will get back an automatic reply), or visit their web site at http://www.igc.org/ . IGC is a project of the Tides Center, a 501(c)(3) charitable organization. *********************************************************************** 15 September 1999 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ALL INDONESIAN TROOPS MUST BE WITHDRAWN FROM EAST TIMOR AS PEACE-KEEPING FORCE MOVES IN TAPOL has warned the UN Secretary-General that the UN's failure to insist on the removal of Indonesian troops from East Timor as part of the rules of engagement of the international Peace-Keeping Force for East Timor will mean a repeat of the disastrous decision by the UN to allow Indonesian troops to remain in the territory during the months leading up to the referendum on 30 August. In a letter to Kofi Annan sent hours before the Security Council adopted a resolution mandating an multilateral force to enter East Timor within the next few days, TAPOL's director, Carmel Budiardjo warned that the continued presence of the troops would destroy the confidence of the population in the peace-keepers and could be fatal to its operations. There are estimated to be 20,000 Indonesian troops still stationed in East Timor, including territorial troops and special forces. The 15,000 territorial troops are based in every town and village and are the eyes and ears of the military intelligence. Their continued presence cannot be tolerated. Budiardjo said: 'It is inconceivable, particularly after what has happened in East Timor in the past few days , that the hundreds of thousands of displaced East Timorese would want to return to their villages or towns if these soldiers remain'. In its letter to Kofi Annan, TAPOL stressed that it was critically important for all the special troops sent to East Timor in the past few weeks to be withdrawn immediately. They include special air force commandos, marines and special troops from the army's strategic command, KOSTRAD, whose primary task has been to take charge of the forced relocation of East Timorese by land, sea and air to West Timor and to other parts of Indonesia. There are also many hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Kopassus crack troops who have for months been mingling with the militias in their murderous operations against the population. Paragraph 5 of today's Security Council resolution provides for 'Indonesia's continuing responsibility' for security as stipulated in the UN-sponsored 5 May accords. These accords made no provision for Indonesian soldiers to leave East Timor and they could now remain there for several months more. TAPOL also said it would be an intolerable anomaly if martial law which was declared by the Indonesian authorities on 7 September was to remain in place. Martial law vests a range of special powers in the hands of the Indonesian army. Describing the structure of the territorial army, TAPOL said that all troops stationed in villages and sub-district towns should be immediately withdrawn to barracks for their early removal from East Timor. 'The possibility that these soldiers will harass the population is very real and their continued presence could seriously undermine the effectiveness of any security measures undertaken by the Peace-Keeping Force,' the letter warned. For more information or interviews, contact: Carmel Budiardjo 0181 771-2904 day or evening, or email tapol@gn.apc.org ************* Former Timorese police officer testifies that Indonesian army intentionally killed TV newsmen in East Timor in October 1975 A former East Timorese police officer in Balibo, East Timor has told TAPOL that the Indonesian military authorities knew that five TV journalists from Australia were present in Balibo at the time they attacked the village and were intent on killing them. His testimony confirms the conclusions reached by an inquiry undertaken by the Australian Section of the International Commission of Jurists and published earlier this week by the Sydney Morning Herald that there was a 'deliberate intention on the part of the (Indonesian) military force which set out from nearby Batugade to kill the journalists in Balibo'. The five journalists had gone to Balibo to verify reports that the Indonesian army was conducting incursions across the border into East Timor. The five men, two Australians, two Britons and a New Zealander, were killed in Balibo on 16 October 1975. Manuel dos Santos who now lives in exile in Portugal, was sub-chief of police and head of immigration in Balibo from December 1974 until August 1975 when he fled across the border to Atambua, an Indonesian town in West Timor. He said: 'Two or three days before the attack on Balibo, the Indonesians had a list of eight people they wanted to kill in Balibo (including) the five newsmen.' He said that Fretilin who were in control of East Timor at the time had broadcast the fact that the five newsmen were near the border alerting the Indonesians to their presence and their intentions to disclose what was happening along the border. Mr dos Santos was interviewed by Tom Sherman, a senior Australian official who undertook an investigation into the killings in 1996, at the request of the then foreign minister Gareth Evans, but none of his testimony was used in the Sherman Report. The latest evidence published this week in Australia refutes Indonesian claims, upheld by the Australian and British governments, that the newsmen were killed in crossfire. The ICJ report says that three senior Indonesian officers who were responsible for the events in Balibo, including Lt-General Yunus Yosfiah who is now Minister of Information in the Habibie government, should be brought before an inquiry. Pressure is now growing on the British government to initiate an inquiry into the deaths of the two Britons, Brian Peters (cameraman) and Malcolm Rennie (reporter), who had gone to East Timor for Australia's Channel 9. Note to editors: Manuel dos Santos can be contacted for interviews through Sergio Duarte (phone: 0171 431-0184), who interviewed him in Lisbon on TAPOL's behalf. TAPOL The Indonesia Human Rights Campaign 111 Northwood Road Thornton Heath Surrey CR7 8HW, UK courtesy of Patrick ("pinko commie bastard") Herron ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:24:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Euro-SF Poetry Festival / Saidenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had to reformat this message. Chris ----------------- Original message (ID=1A416774) (141 lines) ------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:47:53 -0800 From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: Euro-SF Poetry Festival Friday, September 24, 7:30 p.m. Euro-San Francisco Poetry Festival German poet Tracy Splinter US poets Kevin Killian and Jocelyn Saidenberg will stage their play "Capriccio" Tracy Splinter was born in 1971 in Cape Town, South Africa, of Dutch, Javanese, and English descent. After emigration to Germany, she became a New German National in 1997, and lives in Hamburg. Splinter is prominent in the spoken word scenes of Hamburg, Berlin, Munich, and Rotterdam. Fluent in German, English, Afrikaans, and Spanish, she has translated her own poetry for the Euro-San Francisco Festival readings. "Ich habe keine Eile, die Welt zu zerst=96ren," she writes, "was wirklich will ist sie wiederzuerschaffen./ Und will, dass Du meine meistgesch=94tz- und einmaligst= e Sch=96pfung bist." ("I am in no hurry to destroy the world/ in fact I want t= o recreate it/and I want you to be my most prized and most exquisite creation.") In "Capriccio" an international cast of divas, designers, poets, assassins, lovers, enemies, friends, detectives and socialites gather backstage at the San Francisco Opera moments before the curtain goes up on Richard Strauss' opera "Capriccio." Our farce comedy of the same name is an affectionate salute to the international poetry community as we gather together here in the city of fog, sourdough bread, Language poetry, skateboards and the inimitable Robin Williams. With a cast of local artists and writers including Norma Cole, Kota Ezawa, Phoebe Gloeckner, Craig Goodman, Clifford Hengst, Marisa Hernandez, Scott Hewicker, Jennifer Locke, Rex Ray, Jocelyn Saidenberg, Leslie Scalapino and Wayne Smith. Co-sponsored with the Goethe-Institut, in conjunction with the Euro-San =46rancisco Poetry Festival, a 5-day series of events sponsored by Alliance =46ran=C1aise, Goethe-Institut, and Istituto Italiano di Cultura, in collaboration with City Lights Books, Intersection for the Arts, New Langton Arts, San Francisco Art Institute, and Small Press Traffic. New College Theater 777 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:42:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: backchannel violence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain i hear a lot about the viciousness of backchannel'd email pertaining to this list and i wd appreciate getting some vicious backchannel myself, now i know that i'm not really giving you what you need to get started which is the sense that i disagree with you about something or that i hold opinions which you think are, at best, wrong-headed ---- this puts me in a tricky spot, while i know that i have these beliefs and contrary ideas about things ----- it's very difficult to know where to start ----- as such i'm forced to simply list a few things which i'm generally in favor of assuming that someone will find them offensive (please don't hold back) : reason and/or rationality (whichever makes yr blood pressure surge the most) : trying to understand what people are talking about (imagine this as me asking a question utterly dependant on my limited and questionable point of view) : writing poems that're "about" something " writing poems that're not "about" anything : considering the consequences of self-contradiction in self and others (perhaps this cd be scripted with much yelling and imagined as asserted about you and held onto in spite of yr quoting of whitman and emerson on the subject) : asking questions (call this rhetoric or even bullying and assume that the answers i'm after i intend to trick you into) and while i don't wish to disrespect the tone and approach that is set forth in that list document we all get and which i actually do see as useful for list participants generally i'd like to add a final statement that i'm uncertain of in any particular instance but which i'm sure i cd be pushed to utter given the appropriate emails from you or someone else out there, "i'm right and yr wrong and do yrself a favor and fuck off, ok?" give it yr all ----- cathart ----- let it all out )L [$12 per 100 words, checks payable to John Lowther a mailing address will be automatically sent to you upon receipt of yr backchannel and please, if you wish to be further incensed note in a bracket and i will set about specifically attacking you] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:50:07 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Grenier :that: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There are twnety issues of :that: v. II, no. 1 - a transcription of a talk by Bob Grenier, given in Franconia, NH in 1993. 16 pp., color repros of recent Grener work front and back. $10 ea. Orders by mail only, tho email enquiries for further info., etc., okay. Stephen Ellis 23 Mitton Street Portland, ME 04102 > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:12:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Objectivist Nexus - Discount Offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With apologies - the following quotes ('small pieces') are undigested. They were gathered with a view to doing a review or response to the book. They only relate to part of what is there for one of several poets. Posted here for info for list members: _The Objectivist Nexus_, edited by Rachel Blau DuPlessis and Peter Quartermain, Tuscaloosa, University of Alabama Press, 1999. "[Objectivism's] character may be simply described as the arrangement, into one apprehended unit, of minor units of sincerity - in other words, the resolving of words and their ideation into structure." Zukofsky, Louis. "Sincerity and Objectivication with Special Reference to the Work of Charles Reznikioff." _Poetry_ 37, 5 (February, 1931): 272-85. "[Sincerity] involves insistence on the surface of the poem as concerned primarily with direct acts of naming as signs of the poet's immediate engagement in the areas of experience made present by conceiving the act of writing as a mode of attention. Sincerity involves refusing the temptations of closure - both closure as fixed form and closure as writing in the service of idea, doctrine, or abstract aesthetic ideal." p. 33 of Williams: "writing....can be conceived less as a vehicle for imposing thoughts on the world than as a process of perception by composition." p. 33 "All along I've had the sense that the structure of the sentence closes off the little words. That's where the mysteries are, in the little words." George Oppen, "Poetry and politics: A conversation with George and Mary Oppen." With Burton Hatlen and Tom Mandel. In Hatlen, B., _George Oppen_, pp. 23 - 50. "For Oppen, poetry is a form of thinking, and the serial poem allows him a different, a more extended and flexible form of thinking than is possible in the lyric. As John Taggart puts it, 'the series permits any number of variations without forcing new beginnings and without losing sight of the object.' It enables Oppen '_to think actively in his poetry_' ('Deep Jewels', _Ironwood 26_, Fall, 1985: 159 - 68). Conte proposes a valuable contrast between the discontinuity, incompleteness, and 'accumulation' of serial form and the impulse toward 'encompassment, summation' of the modernist epic, with its underlying 'organic theory of continuity and development.'" "'Intensity of vision implies not only clear rendition of the image but also moral insight and an emotional response: 'The virtue of the mind/ Is that//which causes/To see' (Oppen, Collected Poems 87) , as he writes in 'Guest room.' Elsewhere in the interview from which his comments on _Discrete Series_ derive, Oppen uses an ethical criterion to explain a formal feature of the book, saying that its disjointed structure results from his perceiving and writing in isolated 'moments of conviction.' The term 'conviction' implies what most of Oppen's work makes clear, that he sees his poetry as an effort to formulate an ethic for living. In 'Blood from the Stone' he asks, 'What do we believe/To live with?' and answers 'all/That verse attempts' (collected Poems 31). He feels that he can formulate that ethic only in 'moments of conviction' - that conviction is so fragile and fleeting as to be available only in moments. For Oppen, however, every moment is charged with the potential material for poetry. At any given m9oment, to put it simply, there is a lot goring on to write about. Hence Oppen speaks of 'the moment's//Populace and "The light, the volume/Of the moment.' The richness and the value of this material - of _The Materials_, to use one of Oppen's book titles - is, I take it, what oppen means he is convinced _of_ in his moments of conviction." 90 In the context of explicating Oppen's sense of the imagist moment and his effort to weld those moments into larger poetic structures, his well known gloss on the title _Discrete Series_ deserves repeating: 'A discrete series is a series of terms each of which is empirically derived, each one of which is empirically true...The poems are a series yet each is separate.' In this comment Oppen stresses not the cumulative effect of the 'terms' or poems in his discrete series but their separate, self-contained quality. The construction of meaning involves forging or finding relationships among ideas and things; the very gesture of putting fragments of language into a series invites us to connect them in some way. At the same time, 'meanig' remained something more sought after 5than achieved for a skeptic like Oppen, and something momentary: 'meaning's//instant.' 'meaning/in the instant.' He uses in _Discrete Series_ the least 'constructed' form of connection possible - seriality, or, in his own words, 'Successive/Happenings.' Further, he defies traditional notions of progression or climax: 'Not by growth/But the/Paper, turned, contains/This entire volume.' 91 "Oppen suggests that our daily experience is not of abstractions like 'the sea' and 'humanity' but of individual waves and humans. 92 "Whether, as the intensity of seeing increases, one's distance from Them the people, does not also increase." 95 "We may fall back on a secondary meaning, his [Oppen's] sense of writing in a society in which the connections, explanations, and stories had been corrupted, distorted, mystified, and inevitably turned into the crude, masked force of ideology. The only escape available to a writer, the only sanity, lay in the struggle 'to redeem Fragments and fragmentary Histories in the towns and the temperate streets (Oppen, G.,Seascape_ 34).'" Eric Homberger, "Communists and Objectivists," in _The Objectivist Nexus_, edited by Rachel Blau DuPlessis and Peter Quartermain, Tuscaloosa, University of Alabama Press, 1999. Hank Lazer wrote: > > Announcing the latest volume in the series Modern and > Contemporary Poetics, edited by Charles Bernstein and Hank > Lazer > -- //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:25:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "herr c." Subject: [ theremin music ] a storyspace e-journal Dear All, This is a request from 2 beats off of nowhere. [ theremin music ] is a journal for hypertextual works composed in storyspace currently in production of its first issue. We were wondering if there were any Storyspace authors out there who would want to submit to it? We can offer only exposure, the guarantee that all rights will remain solely with the author and the backing of Eastgate Systems as a sponsor. The preferred format is of the "readers" (SSreader, Pagereader, Easyreader) but we are accepting plain (or perhaps is unfettered more apropos?) SS documents as well. Anyone interested can please send pieces on disk (critical, creative, or points therein) to: Herr Colin G. Hough-Trapp Vassar College #2092 Poughkeepsie, NY 12604-2092 Please forward this to any interested parties you know. the thereministers, Michael Stutzman Daniel Pereira Herr Colin G. Hough-Trapp ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [ theremin music ] hypertext artworks for storyspace -michael stutzman {mistutzman@vassar.edu} daniel pereira {alpereira@vassar.edu} herr colin g. hough-trapp {cohoughtrapp@vassar.edu} "I wanted to be as certain of invisible things as I was that seven and three are ten" -Saint Augustine ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:45:40 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joan Houlihan Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mr. Brady, Your detailed and thoughtful response deserves my attention, but I'm afraid I'm limited in my ability to respond in kind. You clearly have much more historical information to bring to the topic than I do, and you also have much more time to devote to your responses than I do. So please forgive me if I can only make a few more statements re: your main premise and respond directly to only a couple of selected points from your mail. First, in re: to your main premise; i.e.: That while the US is not wholly responsible for the currrent atrocities in East Timor, that other countries such as Australia, Great Britain, Japan, and even some US corporate interests that are, while headquartered mainly in the US, largely independent of any real national governance, all share the responsibility, that "those atrocities could not have happened without U.S.involvement - that such involvement was, in brief, a necessary rather than a sufficient condition." My response to this is to ask: what was the *objective* of the US "involvement" in Indonesia? Was it something other than selling arms? If the objective was to sell arms, which I believe it was, then it's true that we could say selling arms to Indonesia in the first place provided the means for the atrocities--but if we say this, we can say that for every place the US has sold arms that has later (days? months/ years?) broken out in a war we have "caused" that war. Isn't it possible that the objective of selling arms is to make money--that the rationale for selling them is that if we don't someone else will? Now, it's true that one can draw moral implications from this selling of arms--and I think we should. I think the US should LET someone else sell arms, give up that dominant "market share" because only then will we be able to address any human rights issues from some moral ground--and be heeded. This leads to your statement: And even if we agree that humans as individuals have a certain predilection for evil, we still have to explain why in some cases resources are marshalled to allow that predilection its full "expression," and where those resources come from. As I say above, I think the "explanation" as to why "resources are marshalled..etc." is a commercial one. The fact that the resources come from the arms dealer of the world, the US, is a fact open to moral implication for many. If we step out of that business, we've effectively stepped out of the immorality spotlight. Re: I thought we were having an argument. I thought we were trying to determine the sense and truth of Mr. Neff's statements. Re: Apparently I was abridging someone's freedom. Apparently *I* was expecting the list to address the statements made, not construct theories out of whole cloth and stretch that cloth over any apparent contradictions. Re: So our differing political perspectives lead us to disagree. But in the elaboration of that disagreement, your efforts to attenuate the space of public discourse by casting argument as domination are wholly unworthy, not only of the weight of the argument itself, but even of the "liberal" traditions you bring to it. I don't know what this means. It sounds kind indignant though, so I hope you're not offended. Also, I don't know why the word liberal has quotes--denoting irony or direct quote? Again, I wish I had more time to address some of your other points. Thanks for replying. Regards, Joan >From: Taylor Brady >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:24:36 -0700 > >Ms. Houlihan, > >I'm aware that this will break my resolve to respond no more, but there's >at >least one fairly serious misrepresentation of the record and one fairly >well-implied personal attack in this. Both, I think, merit an answer. > >First, the misrepresentation. Mr. Neff's point has not been, to date, >"simply the suggestion that the US government (and whatever else we >conceive >that entity to be,it is still a collection of people with limitations) may >not be wholly responsible for what's happening in East Timor." Nor has my >point been that the US _is_ solely culpable. Ample mention has been made of >the role of the Indonesian military, Japan, Australia. More might be said >about Great Britain, and the corporate interests that are, while >headquartered mainly in the US, largely independent of any real national >governance. For evidence of Mr. Neff's real "point", I attach the following >quote from his opening missive on this thread: > >"I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time >line >me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or >Moynihan or >Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided the >genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires >to >other large groups of people. > >Until you do, I'm not writing anyone." > > >What emerges from this line of argument is 1) a denial of ANY U.S. role (a >far cry from denying full responsibility); and 2) a denial of the >effectivity of any U.S. action (pressure on elected and unelected officials >to stop pursuing some particular policy or other) in the present situation. >One remembers that the post to which he responded was a call for protest >and >petition. In effect, what he is doing in the above quote is denying that >the >US government is the proper target for any such protest, as well as denying >that such a protest could have any effect. >My claim was, >rather, that those atrocities could not have happened without U.S. >involvement - that such involvement was, in brief, a necessary rather than >a >sufficient condition. And for my part, I've never claimed that the US held >sole responsibility for >atrocities in East Timor over the past twenty-five years. The Indonesian >regime since Suharto's rise to power >has been a creature of the US military and intelligence "community." This >history is well-documented and available for the perusal of skeptical >parties. (Unless one takes seriously the desperate ideological retreat into >"empiricist" metaphysics - do you really want to claim, in an E-MAIL >correspondence, that you only believe in what's before your eyes?). For >recent evidence of this dependent attachment, witness the Habibie >government's quick decision to allow international troops in as soon as >Clinton's rather weakly-worded "temporary suspension" of aid was announced. > >In other words, in reply to Mr. Neff's most recent questioning whether >"dictators and police squads and fanatics forgo hostilities as soon as the >UN wags a finger at them," I would point out that Indonesia has always (at >least since '65) done exactly that when it's been a question of the _US_ >doing the wagging. Indonesia as currently ruled is a client state of the >US, >Great Britain, and Japan, pure and simple. And despite Mr. Neff's >ideological scare tactics in introducing the "world's policeman" threat, >this client relationship exists in such a form that, for long-term changes >to become effective, what's probably most needed is a cessation of US >involvement, rather than a new "commitment of troops" or some such. Our >support - precisely - of police tactics up to this point has been the very >problem. A lot could be accomplished if our government would simply stop - >permanently - doing the criminal things it's been doing in that region. In >fact, it would be best for all concerned if any international force sent in >for the short term to stop the killings included _no_ US, British, or >Australian troops. That this is unlikely to happen is further evidence, to >me, that whatever steps are currently being taken are more by way of >protecting the bankability of an investment than a commitment to national >self-determination and political freedoms. > >Of course, groups of people have always killed other groups of people. And >groups of people have always resisted and spoken out - that's part of what, >in my sense of a humanly-liveable world, one understands by the word >"history." It's a "made place," to bring in Robert Duncan for a moment. >People can act to make it differently, and this despite the red-baiting >invective of Mr. Neff's latest. I readily grant that such atrocities have >happened under all kinds of conditions and in all kinds of places. My >question is, by the same sort of "Occam's Razor" method proposed by Mr. >Neff, whether we might be a bit concerned about the statistical >preponderance of US investment capital, weapons, and military advisors at >the scene of such atrocities during the last fifty years - whether in fact >we might examine the verifiable historical record, rather than raise the >spectre of some sort of genetic predisposition to murder, and attempt to >account for the reasons why the US government has tended to be, in the >post-war period "a collection of individuals" whose "limitations" include a >pronounced taste for military dictatorship in the so-called Third World. >Yes, other people (in this case Indonesians and conscript Timorese) do the >killing. One of the privileges of capital is that it affords you the >opportunity to contract out such unpleasant "work." And even if we agree >that humans as individuals have a certain predilection for evil, we still >have to explain why in some cases resources are marshalled to allow that >predilection its full "expression," and where those resources come from. > >My second concern in reading your posting is the accusation of >"intolerance" >hurled against those who have disagreed with Mr. Neff - an accusation made >personal by the address of that posting to me. Let me state simply that it >angers and saddens me to see disagreement labeled thus as intolerance. I >thought we were having an argument. Apparently I was abridging someone's >freedom. > >You identify yourself as a "liberal" - and that might well be the root of >our disagreement on the geopolitical side of things. I've come to believe >strongly that American liberalism is a thoroughly inadequate response, not >only to the problems of international capital and its involvement in the >crushing of independence movements, but even to the day-to-day "domestic"So >our differing political perspectives lead us to >disagree. But in the elaboration of that disagreement, your efforts to >attenuate the space of public discourse by casting argument as domination >are wholly unworthy, not only of the weight of the argument itself, but >even >of the "liberal" traditions you bring to it. >political concerns we all face as citizens, of whatever civic entity in >which we participate. > > >Taylor Brady > > > >P.S. A final response to a message just in, this one from Mr. Neff, >containing word of a different sort of intolerance: > >"As far as accepting on face value what conspiracy theorists say relative >to >blaming America for the many years of pogrom-like rages and methodical >brutality, that proves impossible, for given the level of fanaticism as >evidenced by backchannel communications to me laced with scathing insults >and generally embittered ego mania (e.g., I'm a lazy ass idiot, ugly >mouthed, an embarassment, neanderthal, and equal to a state dept hack)--and >all erupting on me in quite sudden and uncalled for fashion-one cannot help >but conclude that like true zealots, these maze-brained individuals will >only seek out and report on those sources of information most likely to >confirm their viewpoint." > >For the record, I have never participated in any back-channel communication >with Mr. Neff. I have no desire to do so, and, while I understand the urge >that might have prompted some of the e-mails he alleges, it's hardly a fair >tactic - if anyone is listening, I'd urge people to lay off. For Mr. Neff, >I'd simply point out that you'll have to disarticulate your critique from >your sense of those who disagree with you as "true zealots, these >maze-brained individuals," since that description is founded on the >evidence >of behavior in which at least one of "us" - and a fairly vocal one - has >consistently refused to participate. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] >On Behalf Of Joan Houlihan >Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 4:44 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > >Taylor, > >Of all the responses to Mike Neff's e-mail, yours seem to be the best >examples of a logic constructed partly on the idea that because events >occur together in time, the events are somehow linked causally, and partly >on the idea that events which you do not personally witness, or have any >special knowledge of, are nonetheless events that you can interpret not >only >correctly, but also "righteously"--that is, you are able to divine the >motivations and moral construction of all those involved, from the >beginning >of the forced annexation of East Timor to its bloody fight for >independence. > >It's quite amazing to me, a liberal, to see the kind of reaction generated >by a clearly written, well-reasoned message (Neff's). What has created this >firestorm? Simply the suggestion that the US government (and whatever else >we conceive that entity to be,it is still a collection of people with >limitations) may not be wholly responsible for what's happening in East >Timor. I don't see that Mike Neff was disputing any historical facts, or >events leading up to what's happening there--only that he was questioning >the idea that these successive events *had* to be linked to either a kind >of >evil intentionality, or an immoral turning away by the US government. He >was >instead, and rightly I think, proposing the idea that deeper, and even >random, forces are also at work in these situations--not only, but also. >That we need to consider the constant recurrence of group hatreds, >killings, >the human prediliciton for wiping each other out. Nowhere was he suggesting >that arms were *not* sold, that US interests were *not* pursued, or that >the >US often gets behind what turn out to be (or always were) rotten >leaders/causes--sometimes in the interest of avoiding worse leaders/causes, >or more likely, for simple economic or ideologic reasons. > >Now that I've seen what comes back from this "radical" idea that the US >government may not be the God we can blame, I'm astonished not only by the >list's intolerance, but also by the realization that so many liberals have >given up their ability to analyze and respond to a clear idea objectively, >for the more comfortable idea that there's always clearly someone to >blame--if not God, then the government. > >Joan > > > >From: Taylor Brady > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:53:14 -0700 > > > >A few points: > > > >1) Kissinger's "visit" was considerably more instrumental than the > >"chat-and-tea" image might otherwise conjure one to believe. It was >rather, > >the U.S. State Department's imprimatur and guarantee of military >assistance > >to a regime embarked on a series of "policy initiatives" which included, > >most notably, a) the slaughter and forced relocation of much of its own > >peasantry, labor leaders and movement members, intellectuals, etc., in >the > >name of a defense against communism; and b) the invasion and annexation >of > >Timor, resulting in a brutal occupation which left nearly a quarter of a > >million dead. This, while the U.S. (among others - recently, the role of > >Japan and Australia would also bear some scrutiny) continued (and > >continues, > >notwithstanding Clinton's half-assed "retraction of assistance") to >provide > >the proverbial "military, technical and economic aid" to the Indonesian > >regime. This isn't a matter of having bought arms years ago, but one of > >receiving - until this week, and that only if Clinton's retraction is to > >taken at face value - ongoing direct support from the U.S. and other > >armaments-producing nations. Thus, while the machetes might be a domestic > >industry in Indonesia, the rifles, troop transport vehicles, paramilitary > >training, etc., most certainly are not. This aid has been continued under > >recent administrations with the rationalization that it's the Indonesian > >military itself that can be counted on to bring the militias back into > >line. > >For the sheer ridiculousness of this claim, if one still needs it > >substantiated, one might turn to Alan Nairn's recent reports on Pacifica > >Radio, detailing the intimate relationship between the army and the > >militias. But other sources are many and well-documented. If you have web > >access, you might take a look at the East Timor Action Network's web >site: > >www.etan.org > >2) The above would seem to have some bearing on your assertion that East > >Timor is attempting to "secede" from a legitimate national government - > >which is simply not the case. East Timor, as an Indonesian territory, is > >the > >result of a forcible annexation sponsored by U.S. and other interests. >Many > >of the key figures in the initial "sponsorship" remain in positions of > >power > >today. In other words, this is about as far from a quixotic attempt to > >rectify a distant and tragic "other-people's" history as you can get. > >3) You ask: "We turned the other way on Savac we see now (sp?) in Iran, > >though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we do the > >same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the > >murdering we see now?" Yes. Absolutely. As I've pointed out, this isn't > >simply a case of turning the other way, but a direct outgrowth of > >deliberate > >policies of military and economic support pursued by the U.S., Japan and > >other militarized nations. And although the point has now been reached at > >which the killings more than likely cannot be stopped without some sort >of > >direct intervention, the extreme probability was, until quite recently, > >that > >the Indonesian regime simply could not have pursued its policies of > >aggression without the direct support of the U.S. and its allies - that, >in > >other words, the annexation itself would have been unfeasible and > >unsustainable without that aid. Until very recently, a cut-off of such > >support might have sufficed to avert the campaign of terror now being > >pursued. There is no "genocidal gene" - and such pseudo-explanations > >("they're just nuts _over there_, who can understand their >motivations?"), > >I'd warrant, most often mark the site of a real and determinate chain of > >events, the complicity of one's own nation in which is precisely what the > >resort to racialized typologies attempts to obscure. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: UB Poetics discussion group > >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] > >On Behalf Of Michael Neff > >Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 10:15 AM > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: I can't believe it!!! > > > >Pete, > > > >Before I write anyone, help me here, if you can. I'm not following this > >line of > >accusation. I need to be clear. > > > >Since we've had involvement in Indonesia, it must be our fault that the > >Indonesian army and brother gangs are slaughtering people in churches, > >hacking > >them machetes? Did they get the machetes from America too? I suppose if > >their > >govt hadn't bought arms from us years ago then all would be peaceful? >This > >sounds naive to the point of absurdity. > > > >I see no connection with what you are saying and the psychotic rampage >fest > >going on in Timor. You've noted that Kissinger, etc, visited Timor and > >then > >the > >slaughters began. Is there an association here? If so, can you link it > >for > >me? I don't see it from what you are saying. > > > >Must we blame the American gov for it, are we compelled? There are those > >who > >believe the US govt manufactures tornadoes to chase them around and wreck > >their > >barns. I don't believe that either, but thousands are convinced. > > > >And why should the US support Timor seceding when we didn't support South > >Carolina, and certainly don't support Quebec? Also, plenty of money we > >send > >overseas, in one form or another, gets redirected and wasted. Witness >the > >diversion of funds by Russian mafia. We turned the other way on Savac > >(sp?) in > >Iran, though our intelligence knew they were out of control, but did we >do > >the > >same in Indonesia? And if we did, does this really account for the > >murdering > >we see now? > > > >I'm listening. Perhaps you can educate me, flow chart me, graph me, time > >line > >me on just how Kissinger, or Clinton or Nixon or Ford or LaRouche or > >Moynihan or > >Chuck Rob or whoever in any conspiratorial setting, ignited and guided >the > >genocidal gene that compels large groups of people to willfully set fires > >to > >other large groups of people. > > > >Until you do, I'm not writing anyone. > > > >Mike > > > > > >pete spence wrote: > > > > > please put this out to all mailartists for action. also send a protest > > > to:indonesia@un.int > > > president@whitehouse.gov > > > a.downer.mp@aph.gov.au > > > thanks pete spence > > > > > > speak up and out about East Timor. It may also be just > > > >as good > > > >and probably easier to protest the American gov't for their ongoing > >role > >in > > > >the slaughter and oppression of the East Timorese. It was the >American > > > >Gov't. that paid for and supervised the original Indonesian invasion, > >and > > > >the American gov't is trying hard to escape culpability with >ambiguous > > > >declarations (coming from such shits as Madeline Albright) about the > > > >chaotic > > > >and oppressive state of affairs while also trying to take any >potential > > > >actions and tie them up in red tape. Such action clearly gives the > > > >Indonesian gov't has a chance to tie up power once again while >everyone > > > >else > > > >takes their time designating panels and working groups. Since a visit > >by > > > >Kissinger, Ford, and Scowcroft to Suharto in July 1975, the >Indonesian > > > >government, using mostly US-made and US-paid-for weapons and military > > > >intelligence support, has killed between 1/4 and 1/3 of the original > > > >inhabitants. That's about 200,000-300,000 people. We're talking > > > >concentration camps between 1975-1979. Paid for by US taxpayers. > >Certain > > > >people meant business when it all started 24 years ago; I don't think > >they > > > >mean any less harm now. If the US supported the democratic efforts >of > >the > > > >East Timorese none of this probably would have happened. > > > > > > > >http://www.freetimor.com/ > > > > > > > >http://www.lbbs.org/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html > > > > > > > >http://www.motherjones.com/east_timor/ > > > > > > > >http://www.etan.org/ > > > > > > > >regards, > > > >Patrick Herron > > > > > > > > > > > >>so what the way i see it.. maybe better protest to the > > > >indonesian government on the handling of the east timorese might be a > > > >better > > > >usage of your time; indonesia@un.int > > > > > > > >thanks pete spence > > > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >-- > > > > > > > > > >================================ > >Web Del Sol > >http://webdelsol.com > >LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:25:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: bunting for a base hit... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Was he there after 1946??? i thought he was only active in intelligence >during the bigee (WWII), working against the nasty axis... > >But of course maybe that's only what i *wanted* to believe... He was a newspaper correspondent and a new groom in Persia from 1947 to 1950, then came home yet again. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:44:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Novels of the Sixties In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I want to make it clear that despite the strange arrangement below, I am not responsible for these words, and especially that execrable pun. And I would not call Burroughs Burrough! GB >When I say depressing, I must admit it is out of a sense of self-deprecation. > After reading the novel, I felt as if I had missed out on something, that I >wasn't in the loop, so to speak. I had been told of this great novel and >after reading it, I felt what was great about it? I could not put my finger >on it. Of course, Burrough's prose is shitzophrenic and jargon-laced so I >doubt I'm the only one who has had trouble with it. > > > > George Bowering. > , > >> George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:11:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios kozaitis Subject: Grassroots International East Timor Campaign Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ACT NOW FOR EAST TIMOR! A Grassroots International campaign Grassroots International announces the launch of ACT NOW FOR EAST TIMOR, a humanitarian aid and policy advocacy campaign in support of the people of East Timor and their aspiration for independence. Since the August 30 referendum in favor of independence, hundreds of thousands of East Timorese have been brutally murdered or driven from their homes for their support of independence. A clear, firm U.S. policy based on the human rights of the Timorese people rather than U.S. economic and geopolitical interests in Indonesia could have avoided this humanitarian disaster. The scale of the disaster and the nature of U.S. involvement in this situation demand that we respond. ACT NOW FOR EAST TIMOR will help the East Timorese reconstruct a society and construct a new, independent state. The campaign will seek private funds from U.S. sources for an East Timor Relief and Reconstruction Fund. At first, the fund will prioritize aid to the up to 300,000 East Timorese people displaced by the violence within East Timor. If possible, it will also provide appropriate humanitarian assistance to refugees in camps in West Timor. Those camps are currently under Indonesian military control and the question of humanitarian access is far from settled. In any case, work with refugees must focus on creating the conditions for their eventual safe return to East Timor. The brutality of the Indonesian military and its militias has left the organizations of the Timorese independence movement scattered, with many of their leaders assassinated or in exile. In the medium to long term, Grassroots International will provide aid to help Timorese social organizations regroup and resume the work of service to their communities. In coordination with the East Timor Action Network (ETAN), the campaign will pursue a U.S. policy agenda designed to exert maximum pressure on Indonesia to end the orgy of violence and to withdraw its military forces from East Timor. To this end, campaign supporters will work to influence U.S. government policy and that of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. ACT NOW FOR EAST TIMOR will also join those who seek to ensure that an eventual international peacekeeping force does not in any way impede the realization of Timorese independence. Grassroots International is a private human rights and development organization that supports movements for social change in Brazil, Eritrea, Haiti, Mexico and Palestine, and does advocacy and educational work in the United States. Current agency programs in Haiti and Eritrea began as responses to emergency situations in those countries. For more information, or to get involved in this campaign, visit our website at . You may also contact Grassroots International by phone at 617-524-1400, or by e-mail at . Tax-deductible donations should be marked ACT NOW FOR EAST TIMOR and sent to: Grassroots International, ACT NOW FOR EAST TIMOR, 179 Boylston St., 4th Floor, Boston MA 02130, USA. The press should speak directly with Campaign Coordinator, Sona Bari . Sona Bari, Campaign Coordinator Martha Thompson, Program Coordinator for East Timor Kevin Murray, Executive Director Grassroots International 179 Boylston Street 4th floor Boston MA 02130 USA phone (617) 524-1400 fax (617)524-5525 grassroots@igc.org http://www.grassrootsonline.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:50:24 -0400 Reply-To: mgk3k@jefferson.village.virginia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Kirschenbaum Subject: Blake Archive's September Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 20 September 1999 The William Blake Archive is pleased to announce the publication of new electronic editions of _The Book of Thel_ copy J and _Visions of the Daughters of Albion_ copy G. _The Book of Thel_ is dated 1789 by Blake on the title page, but the first plate (Thel's Motto) and the last (her descent into the netherworld) appear to have been completed and first printed in 1790, while Blake was working on _The Marriage of Heaven and Hell_. Copy J is from the first of three printings of _Thel_, during which Blake produced at least thirteen copies, printed in five different inks to diversify his stock. Copies from this press run were certainly on hand when Blake included the book in his advertisement "To the Public" of October 1793: "The Book of Thel, a Poem in Illuminated Printing. Quarto, with 6 designs, price 3s." Copy J joins copies in the Archive from the other two printings: copy F, printed and colored c. 1795, and copy O, printed and colored c. 1818. It also joins copy H, which is from the first printing, and, like copy J, is printed in green ink and lightly finished in watercolors. Copy J, however, was recolored when two of its questions ("Why a tender curb upon the youthful burning boy!/Why a little curtain of flesh on the bed of our desire?") on plate 8 were deleted. The lines were scraped away from the paper, apparently by Blake, since the washes over it--and those added to the other texts as well--are in his hand. This second tinting also included pen and ink outlining, the modeling of figures through the addition of complementary colors and shadows, and the over-painting of Thel's yellow dress with green on plate 6. Texts streaked in light yellows, pinks, and blues were characteristic of Blake's later coloring style and suggests that the recoloring occurred around the time the work was sold, c. 1816. This refinishing may have been undertaken to make the book more compatible with the dark hues of _Visions of the Daughters of Albion_ copy G, with which it appears to have been sold, and with which it was bound, probably by their original owner, c. 1816. In keeping with the poem's dark events and brooding mood, the hand coloring of _Visions_ copy G is impressively detailed and sombre. Rather than tinting the designs with semi-transparent washes in single hues, as in the first coloring session, Blake layered his colors to deepen the tones. This style shows the influence of color printing on Blake's hand coloring during the 1794-96 period. The techniques used for copy G even include some stipple-like effects imitating the reticulations caused by color printing. Washes were also added in text margins on plates 5, 7, 10, and 11, with a splendid sunrise bursting into the text on plate 3, as in late copies O and P. Copy G is unusual in other respects as well. The frontispiece and title page are placed sequentially, as in copies O and P, rather than facing each other, but uniquely with the title page coming first. This unconventional arrangement is confirmed by Blake's pen and ink plate numbers. He originally etched numbers 2-3, 5-7 in the top right corners of plates 5-6, 8-10, but all leaves in copy G are foliated in pen and ink in a single sequence, 1-11, with the new numbers written over the old on plates 5-6, 8-9. Copy G was printed and colored c. 1795 as part of a set of illuminated books printed on large paper and joins other works from that set now in the Archive (_The Book of Thel_ copy F, _The Marriage of Heaven and Hell_ copy D, _There is No Natural Religion_ copy L, _All Religions are One_ copy A, and _America, a Prophecy_ copy A) and forthcoming (_The First Book of Urizen_ copy B and _Europe, a Prophecy_ copy H). It also joins copies of _Visions_ in the Archive from other printings: copies C and J, different issues from the first printing of 1793, and copy F, color printed c. 1794. Copy P, an exemplary copy from the fourth and final printing of c. 1818, is forthcoming. In Blake's advertisement, _Visions_ was described as "Folio, with 8 designs, price 7s.6d." Copy G, though, was trimmed to quarto size when bound with _Thel_ copy J. Both works are now in the Houghton Library, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts. The electronic editions have newly edited SGML-encoded texts and new images scanned and color-corrected from first-generation 8x10" transparencies; they are each fully searchable for both text and images and supported by the Inote and ImageSizer applications described in our previous updates. With the publication of these two titles, the Archive now contains 37 copies of 18 separate books, including at least one copy of every one of Blake's works in illuminated printing except the 100 plates of _Jerusalem_ (forthcoming). Morris Eaves, Robert N. Essick, and Joseph Viscomi, editors Matthew G. Kirschenbaum, Technical Editor The William Blake Archive ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:02:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Steve Evans' Notes to Poetry on Arras Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steve Evans's on-going critical project of reviews and commentary NOTES TO POETRY are now being archived on the Arras web-site. http://www.bway.net/~arras ================================================ "As bracing as the candid expressions of righteous (and often politically astute) hatred are, invective is finally less central to the book than eros and elegy. The 'whole love that is' plays the deeper part in shaping the life/work: love of people--father and brother, mother, friends, husband Ted Berrigan and sons, second husband Doug Oliver --love also of poetry ('life's condition... so common hardly anyone / can find it'), and of the 'small houses' of Needles, New York, Iowa, Chicago, and Paris. As the work's memory arc intersects its compositional present, Notley remains true to her thesis that 'experience is a hoax.' While she draws no smug maturational conclusions, she does offer the collected intensities of a tradition that she--like Pound in this if no other regard--has 'gathered from the live air.' -- SE on Alice Notley ================================================ New work by Jacques Debrot and Dirk Rowntree should be available on the Arras web-site shortly. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:50:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: a certain class of volumes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { poetix } derek b mentions drucker's _alphabetic labyrinth_ in connection with my praises of _imagining language_ and i'd meant to ask about that one too ----- it's appeared at a bookstore here in atlanta but is sealed in plastic and i've not yet broken into it ----- i saw a review some time ago that made it sound like something i wd need to have it also makes sense to me to imagine a class of books into which things like drucker's volume (i think) and _imagining language_ and rothenberg's anthologies fits into ----- one which might also allow for books like _the cambridge encyclopedia of the english language_ and their other one _the cam.ency.of language_ (granted theyre not quite as exciting) ----- perhaps one cd argue that u.eco's book, i'm no longer sure of the title... _search for the perfect language_ ?? might belong as well tho i must admit that i cdnt finish reading it and unlike the others above it does fill me with obscure and specific joys at every opening it occurs ot me to ask whether this tentative class i've proposed suggest to anyone other books wich belong in it somehow ? as if it does, the books suggested wd be other i'd wish to know about )L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:10:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: getting ready to have been frightened MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FORM IS AN EXTENSION OF CONTENT, hmm, catchy. this list has limitations, if you haven't noticed. dialogue and dialectic work with difficulty in this daily digest medium. or not all, frankly. people have their say here as if currency value existed in that. whatever people are doing in their real lives, on this playground it's hard to differentiate between the noises. just as an observation. when Kevin Magee posted here, I saw something powerful and authentic. no crap: his every articulation contained his politics, his song, his almost obsessive scholarship. to me his work is a lesson in poetics. and his poetics are political not simply by subject matter but because he lives them both simultaneously. I find that kind of commitment wonderfully admirable. pounding opinions back and forth in this sluggish medium, however -- content as an extension of form/forum -- proves that agitation too can be a commodity. maybe it's time for a retooling. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:15:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: Peirce poemlet MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I guess I'm not supposed to send formatted messages to the list? I have had the good fortune to read Brent's bio of C.S. Peirce b/w his writings & Susan Howe's _Pierce-Arrow_ (b/w a "popularizing" logic text by a friend, John Gregg, called _Ones and Zeros: Understanding Boolean Algebra, Digital Circuits, and the Logic of Sets_; he is the one who told me to read Peirce). Anyhow, this is a poem Peirce wrote. The bio says he's quoting Emerson, but I think he's quoting Isaac Watts' _Against Idleness and Mischief_. That man and I have a splendid idea how doth the little busy bee Improve each shining hour So fast eternity comes on. And that delightful day. When all mortal hands have done. God's judgement shall survey. from _Charles Sanders Peirce: A Life_, by Joseph Brent (Indiana University Press, 1993) Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:04:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CharSSmith@AOL.COM Subject: M. C. Richards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sad news again. The obituary is copied below. Not mentioned is that she was = a=20 founding editor of the Black Mountain Review, & in 1958 published w/ Grove=20 Press a translation of Artaud's _Theatre & Its Double_. --Charles Smith ___________________________ M.C. Richards=20 New York Times=20 Tuesday, September 21, 99=20 =A91999 San Francisco Chronicle=20 URL:=20 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=3D/chronicle/archive/1999/09/= 21/M N28873.DTL=20 M.C. Richards, a poet, potter, essayist, translator and painter who=20 taught at Black Mountain College in the late 1940s and thereafter became an=20 impassioned advocate of community in both art and life, died September 17.=20 She was 83.=20 An artist who wrote poems about pottery and made pots inspired by her=20 reading, Ms. Richards was perhaps best known for ``Centering in Pottery,=20 Poetry and the Person,'' a book of essays published in the middle of the=20 tumultuous 1960s that was impressive for its synthesis of thought, plain=20 speech and incantatory momentum. The book, which became an underground=20 classic, pulled together ideas about perception, craft, education,=20 creativity, religion and spirituality, arguing for the richness of daily=20 experience if carefully attended to, and the creativity of the average=20 person. ``Poets are not the only poets,'' Ms. Richards wrote.=20 Mary Caroline Richards was born in Weiser, Idaho, in 1916 and reared in=20 Portland, Ore. She earned a bachelor's degree in literature and languages=20 from Reed College in 1937, with a thesis titled ``Poetry of the Tang Dynasty=20 in Relation to Western Imagism.'' She went on to the University of Californi= a=20 at Berkeley, where she studied Chinese and wrote her Ph.D. dissertation on=20 irony in Thomas Hardy in 1942. She then began a brief marriage, and taugh=20 English at the Central Washington College of Education in Ellensburg, Wash.,=20 and at the University of Chicago. But she found academic life stifling.=20 In 1945, she married Albert William Levi Jr. Her second husband, a socia= l=20 scientist, was invited that year to join the faculty of the experimental=20 Black Mountain College, near Asheville, N.C. Black Mountain was a short-live= d=20 laboratory for innovative teaching and art whose faculty and students=20 included Josef and Anni Albers, John Cage, Merce Cunningham, David Tudor,=20 Robert Rauschenberg and Charles Olson.=20 At Black Mountain, Ms. Richards taught writing, produced and, when=20 necessary, translated plays by Cocteau, Satie and Yeats. She also danced and=20 studied pottery with Robert Turner. Around 1950, she participated in what=20 might have been the first ``happening,'' with Cage, Olson, Rauschenberg and=20 Franz Kline. In 1951, she separated from her husband, whom she later=20 divorced, and in 1952, she went to New York with Tudor.=20 In 1954, Ms. Richards, Tudor and Cage, along with Paul Williams, an=20 architect, and Karen Karnes, a potter, who had both also been at Black=20 Mountain, established a commune called the Land near Stony Point, N.Y. Ms.=20 Richards lived there for a decade, working in a studio with Ms. Karnes; they=20 developed a form of flameproof clay that enabled them to make ceramic=20 cookware.=20 Ms. Richards began giving pottery workshops in the early 1960s.=20 Reflecting the ideas that would figure in ``Centering,'' these became=20 increasingly interdisciplinary, with titles like ``Clay and Words,'' ``Clay=20 and Movement'' and ``Clay and Eurythmy.'' She lectured and taught workshops=20 at schools in the United States, Canada and Britain. Her longest teaching=20 affiliation, from 1986 until her death, was with the University of Creation=20 Spirituality, established in Oakland by Matthew Fox, a Dominican priest.=20 Ms. Richards' books, which often mixed prose and poetry, included ``The=20 Crossing Point'' (1973), ``Opening Our Moral Eye'' (1996), ``Imagine=20 Inventing Yellow'' (1991) and ``Toward Wholeness: Rudolf Steiner Education i= n=20 America,'' a work of social philosophy. The Camphill Village agricultural=20 community in Kimberton, where Ms. Richards had lived since 1984 and where sh= e=20 died, is one of 80 Camphills worldwide based on Steiner's teachings.=20 In 1989, Ms. Richards, who has no survivors, added painting to her roste= r=20 of activities. She then exhibited ceramics, poems and paintings together,=20 most recently at the Works Gallery in Philadelphia in 1997. The Worcester=20 Center for Crafts in Massachusetts is organizing a retrospective of her work=20 that is to open October 9 with a public memorial.=20 =A91999 San Francisco Chronicle Page E4=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:21:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: listings ? In-Reply-To: <5D5C5C8C3A41D211893900A024D4B97C8803E3@md2.facstaff.ogleth orpe.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:01 PM 9/16/99 -0400, )ohn Lowther wrote: >contrary to what we've been told i heard a rumor that the revolution will in >fact be televised but as yet the tv guide hasnt announced it and i cant find >out anything more "The revolution WILL be televised, but you'll only be able to understand it if you don't watch the television coverage." Russ Nelson >or know what the website is Well, www.therevolution.com is a Julian Lennon site, www.therevolution.org is has been purchased, but is not up in any way shape or form (very strange), and www.therevolution.net is definitely up to something (witness: "Coming soon: Revolution Lite, with 104% fewer calories") There's something awfully mysterious about www.revolution.com, whereas www.revolution.org automatically redirects you to Yahoo! (maybe they know?), and www.revolution.net is a private health care company. Any other news on this rumor would be greatly appreciated (I want to have time to stock up on film, ammo, chocolate, coffee, and tobacco). Dan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:27:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Brook Subject: italian poetry & LA writing at city lights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two events of possible interest at City Lights Bookstore in San Francisco. Tonight (Tuesday, Sept. 21) is a book release party for Promised Land: Italian Poetry After 1975 (Sun & Moon) and Thursday night there's L.A. Exile: A Guide to Los Angeles Writing 1932-1998 (Marsilio). Paul Vangelisti is coeditor on both books, and he and others will be in attendance. -------------------------------------------------- This Week @ City Lights Bookstore City Lights Bookstore 261 Columbus Avenue San Francisco, CA 94133 415-362-8193 http://www.citylights.com Tuesday, Sept. 21, 7 p.m. Promised Land: Italian Poetry After 1975 Edited by Luigi Ballerini, Beppe Cavatora, Elena Coda, and Paul Vangelisti A Bilingual Edition Published by Sun & Moon Classics The Istituto Italiano di Cultura and City Lights Books are pleased to present a reading and celebration of this delightful, comprehensive anthology of late-twentieth-century Italian poetry. Several of the authors will be in attendance. Please join us for this special event! -------------------------------------------------- Thursday, Sept. 23, 7 p.m. L.A. Exile: A Guide to Los Angeles Writing 1932-1998 Edited by Paul Vangelisti and Evan Calbi Published by Marsilio Press A curious literature of exile: the writers of this anthology came from Europe, other parts of the United States, and disparate and invisible parts of California. Along with the familiar figures of prewar, exotic Hollywood, such as Raymond Chandler, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Aldous Huxley, and Thomas Mann, L.A. Exile offers a look at the successive generations who have addressed a different, ever-shifting, essentially boundless and absent metropolis. Paul Vangelisti will speak and sign copies of L.A. Exile. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:54:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sarah Hreha Subject: Call for Papers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" PLEASE FORWARD TO ANYONE WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED. CALL FOR PAPERS "From Miniatures to Movies: Texts and Represntations" University of Minnesota Fourth Annual Graduate Symposium in Romance Studies MARCH 4, 2000 An Interdisciplinary Forum Featuring Plenary SPeaker: Prof. Caoline Jewers "Pageant-Wagons, Perestroika, and the Angel of History" We seek papers related to Romance Studies and concerning texts and representations, including but not limited to: art of description / drama studies / film studies / emblem studies / ekphrasis / cybertext / the medieval book / books and illustrations / authors as critics We request that you submit an anonymous abstract of 500 words in English, accompanied by a 3X5 index card with the following information: title of paper, name, academic affiliation, address, telephone number, and e-mail address. NOTE: Papers MUST be written in ENGLISH. Please translate quotes within the paper itself or in a hand-out. DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSIONS: NOVEMBER 30, 1999 Please send abstract to: Catherine Pulling Department of French & Italian University of Minnesota 9 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Submission of an abstract implies a commitment to attend the Symposium. Completed papers should arrive no later than February 11, 2000. Reading time will be limited to 20 minutes. Steering Committee: Stephanie Lohse (Chair), Sarah Buchanan, Caryn Connelly, Madeleine Craig, Sarah-Grace Heller, Sarah Hreha, Joshua Lund, Catherine Pulling, Daniel Quinn. This document is available via WWW at: http://www.folwell.umn.edu/span_port/gradsymp.html Alternate formats are available upon request. To request these or other disability accomodations, please contact Stephanie Lohse, at the the above address, phone (612) 624-5507, E-mail: lohs0009@tc.umn.edu A. Sarah Hreha Assistant Editor Hispanic Issues Dept. of Spanish and Portuguese University of Minnesota Officer, Students for Cuba Co-Chair, Tone Scientists E-mail: hreh0001@tc.umn.edu http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hreh0001 ----- Don't miss Assif Tsahar & Susie Ibarra Thursday, Oct. 14, 1999 - 7:30-10:30 pm the WHOLE music club - FREE - ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:41:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: 9-0 call for work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **CALL FOR WORK** _Nine to Zero_ is looking for a poetry ms of between 10-15 pp to appear as the third issue of the magazine. The deadline for this issue is Nov 1st. _Nine to Zero_ is not accepting submissions for other issues at this time. Please send with SASE to: Jacques Debrot 49 Old Meetinghouse Green Norton MA 02766 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:59:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: daniel bouchard Subject: POETRY READING IN GLOUCESTER, MASS. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
POETRY READING IN GLOUCESTER, MASS. ART SPACE 1 Center Street 3rd floor Gloucester, MA (978) 283-1381 coffeehouse starts at 8 PM donations accepted but not necessary poetry necessary, but accepted? open mike before featured reader coffee & cookies (unspecified kind) served featured reader: Daniel Bouchard introduced by Gerrit Lansing "Perhaps the most important event in American poetry to occur on Center Street in Gloucester on this particular night." --an esteemed critic come early for the cookies, stay late for the poetry.
<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:12:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: baraka/blues for allen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" found this at the blacklisted journalist: http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column35.html aronowicz is a bit of a loose canon he's got twenty pages, following hard on the heels of the single page of Amiri Baraka, recounting the unveiling of Ginsbergs tombstone, aronowicz has a lot of anger and some of it directed at Allen, my guess is he's angry with allen for dying before they got a chance to kiss and make up forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:42:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: MC Richards Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It is clear that M.C. Richards set a very high standard worth emulating. Her aesthetics were her ethics. Thanks to Ron Silliman for bringing this notice to my attention. ---------- >From: Ron Silliman >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: MC Richards >Date: Mon, Sep 20, 1999, 5:25 AM > >>From today's NY Times. I had not realized that she lived just 15 miles away. > >Ron > >----------------------- > >September 20, 1999 > >M.C. Richards, Poet, Potter and Essayist, Dies at 83 > >By ROBERTA SMITH > >M. C. Richards, a poet, potter, essayist, translator and painter, who taught >at Black Mountain College in the late 1940's and thereafter became an >impassioned advocate of community in both art and life, died on Friday at >Camphill Village, an agricultural community in Kimberton, Pa., where she had >lived since 1984. She was 83. >An artist who wrote poems about pottery and made pots inspired by her >reading, Ms. Richards was perhaps best known for "Centering in Pottery, >Poetry and the Person," a book of essays published in the middle of the >tumultuous 1960's that was impressive for its synthesis of thought, plain >speech and incantatory momentum. The book, which became an underground >classic, pulled together ideas about perception, craft, education, >creativity, religion and spirituality, arguing for the richness of daily >experience if carefully attended to, and the creativity of the average >person. "Poets are not the only poets," Ms. Richards wrote. > >Mary Caroline Richards was born in Weiser, Idaho, in 1916 and reared in >Portland, Ore. She earned a bachelor's degree in literature and languages >from Reed College in 1937, with a thesis titled "Poetry of the Tang Dynasty >in Relation to Western Imagism." She went on to the University of California >at Berkeley, where she studied Chinese and wrote her Ph.D. dissertation on >irony in Thomas Hardy in 1942. She then began a brief marriage, and taught >English at the Central Washington College of Education in Ellensburg, Wash., >and at the University of Chicago. But she found academic life stifling. > >In 1945 she married Albert William Levi Jr., her second husband and a social >scientist who was invited that year to join the faculty of the experimental >Black Mountain College, near Asheville, N.C. Black Mountain was a >short-lived laboratory for innovative teaching and art whose faculty and >students included Josef and Anni Albers, John Cage, Merce Cunningham, David >Tudor, Robert Rauschenberg and Charles Olson. > >At Black Mountain Ms. Richards taught writing, produced and, when necessary, >translated plays by Cocteau, Satie and Yeats. She also danced and studied >pottery with Robert Turner. Around 1950 she participated in what might have >been the first "happening," with Cage, Olson, Rauschenberg and Franz Kline. >In 1951 she separated from her husband, whom she later divorced, and in 1952 >she went to New York with Tudor. > >She studied pottery at Greenwich House in Greenwich Village, attended the >meetings of the downtown avant-garde known as the Club and worked on the >first English translation of Antonin Artaud's influential "Theater and Its >Double," published by Grove Press in 1958. > >In 1954 Ms. Richards, Tudor and Cage, along with Paul Williams, an >architect, and Karen Karnes, a potter, who had both also been at Black >Mountain, established a commune called the Land near Stony Point, N.Y. Ms. >Richards lived there for a decade, working in a studio with Ms. Karnes; they >developed a form of flame-proof clay that enabled them to make ceramic >cookware. > >Ms. Richards began giving pottery workshops in the early 1960's. Reflecting >the ideas that would figure in "Centering," these became increasingly >interdisciplinary, with titles like "Clay and Words," "Clay and Movement" >and "Clay and Eurythmy." She lectured and taught workshops at schools in the >United States, Canada and Britain. > >Her longest teaching affiliation, from 1986 until her death, was with the >University of Creation Spirituality, established in Oakland, Calif., by >Matthew Fox, a Dominican priest. > > >Ms. Richards's books, which often mixed prose and poetry, included "The >Crossing Point" (1973), "Opening Our Moral Eye" (1996), "Imagine Inventing >Yellow" (1991) and "Toward Wholeness: Rudolf Steiner Education in America," >a work of social philosophy. The Camphill community in Kimberton is one of >80 Camphills worldwide based on Steiner's teachings. > > >In 1989 Ms. Richards, who has no survivors, added painting to her roster of >activities. She then exhibited ceramics, poems and paintings together, most >recently at the Works Gallery in Philadelphia in 1997. The Worcester Center >for Crafts in Massachusetts is organizing a retrospective of her work that >is to open on Oct. 9, with a public memorial. > >Ms. Richards embraced old age with characteristic openness, writing a poem >in 1997 in which she saw herself as "living toward dying, blooming into >invisibility." > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:30:59 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hazel Smith Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If any of you have students who want to travel, they might be interested in our new MA in Creative Writing which will be biased towards experimental writing and will be run by myself and Anne Brewster in Sydney at the University of New South Wales. They can find details on the School of English, University of New South Wales website at www.arts.unsw.edu.au/english, or they can get application forms from the School of English, University of New South Wales, Sydney, NSW 2052. The email address is english@unsw.edu.au. Alternately they can contact me!! Hazel Hazel Smith School of English University of New South Wales Sydney 2052 Dr.Hazel Smith Senior lecturer School of English University of New South Wales Sydney 2052 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 04:34:03 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Grenier :that: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There are still available twenty issues of :that:, vol. II no. 1, comprising a talk given by Bob Grenier in Franconia, NH in 1993. 16 pp., color repro covers of work from Grenier's series < r h y m m s >. $10 ea. Orders by post only at below address; email enquiries for further details okay. Stephen Ellis 23 Mitton Street Portland, ME 04102 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:16:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: The POETRY INTO FILM Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing the first ever POETRY INTO FILM competition sponsored by Web Del Sol, a co-sponsor of the First Annual Literary Arts Film Awards to be held in New York city at the National Arts Club. Time and date to be announced. On September 30, 1999, entries will be accepted. Competition will close on January 30, 2000. More information and guidelines at http://webdelsol.com/solhome.htm A panel of judges will choose the best poems and pass their recommendations to the filmmakers. Another panel of judges will choose the best films at the event. Poems made into film will be screened at the awards ceremony which will be very well attended by the literary arts and film community. Poets will be present to discuss their work and vision. The films will later be formatted into a format for display on the web and screenings on independent film websites. A collection in DVD format is planned also. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:34:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: BIVOUAC #2 call for work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BIVOUAC the magazine of the Subpress Collective is seeking work for its Winter 1999 Practical Political Action issue the editor for this issue is Jordan Davis and the address is: Bivouac c/o Jordan Davis 720 Fort Washington Ave Apt 2F New York NY 10040 Please hurry .. deadline is October 5 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:00:44 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: Reviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian, thanks for posting your reviews to the List, it's something more of us should do perhaps with things we are not likely, or inclined, to place elsewhere. I haven't read the Harryman you discuss but I just recently got through VICE, ROSE, and MEMORY PLAY. I've also written some things lately under her influence--something like having a bad flu & then getting over it--though by this I don't mean to criticize her work, but my own emulative experiments. But I feel that as a result I know her work, in a way, from the inside that I wouldn't otherwise. I suppose her writing is fascinating to me partly to the degree to which it subverts attempts to arrive at some kind of judgement of it. I'm particularly interested in the kind of absolutely flat or Zero degree writing of hers that is most prevalent perhaps in VICE. To describe it in shorthand, it is almost analogous to the visual work that came out of COBRA, or early Polke --though your own analogy to the Futurists is suggestive. Some of Watten's own best work in my opinion are the Harryman riffs he does in CONDUIT--"On Barnaby Jones" for instance. & --here's a stretch--your own "Pretentious Picturea" is not too far off the aesthetic of Zero degree--PP is the closest thing to a Twombly that I have ever read actually . & Luoma's prose in WORKS & DAYS too--esp in say the terrific "Auto Gobbler"--though it is quite different of course from most of Harryman's stuff--does bear a similar genetic relationship to the zero degree. (Interestingly Harryman's name is brought up by Luoma & then dismissed as an influence in W&D.) Anyway, forgive the free-association, I'm fumbling a lot of remarks into the air without any attempt at synthesizing them, but I will perhaps follow this up with another post. Just as afterthought--it interested me to see the extent to which your Harryman review seemed in a way just as appropriate--or even more so-- to Scalapino's writing, say in DEFOE. --jacques ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: daniel bouchard Subject: POETRY READING IN GLOUCESTER, MASS. (with date) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
[[[[[[ DATE: Thursday, September 23 ]]]]]] POETRY READING IN GLOUCESTER, MASS. ART SPACE 1 Center Street 3rd floor Gloucester, MA (978) 283-1381 coffeehouse starts at 8 PM donations accepted but not necessary poetry necessary, but accepted? open mike before featured reader coffee & cookies (unspecified kind) served featured reader: Daniel Bouchard introduced by Gerrit Lansing "Perhaps the most important event in American poetry to occur on Center Street in Gloucester on this particular night." --an esteemed critic come early for the cookies, stay late for the poetry.
<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:02:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: next week & stuff for sale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" NEXT WEEK, on Wednesday, September 29th, at 8 pm, The Poetry Project presents a special event: THE ELECTRIC MAGISTRATE CIRCUS with Emily XYZ, Chi Chi Valenti, Dael Orlandersmith, John Giorno, John S. Hall, Beau Sia, Glenn O'Brien, Lawrence Goldhuber, the Virgil Moorefield Ensemble, and many others performing & reading to free Emily XYZ's captive CD, the Electric Magistrate, from Mercury/Polygram and to promote artist ownership of work, more equitable royalty rates, and the distribution of words/music/art via the Internet. This event is $10, $7 for students & seniors. For more info, call (212) 674-0910 AND THEN Friday, October 1st at 10:30 pm PRE-MILLENNIAL CRAMPS: A SPOKEN-WORD HAPPENING with Beau Sia, Todd Colby, Galinsky, & Lisa King co-sponsored by Pseudo.com ***COMPUTER STUFF SALE*** We've got some Mac-compatible goodies for sale here at the office, including: 2 zip drives, practically brand-new, $50 or highest offer each. They work great, just can't use them with our new iMacs. 4 hard drives, $50 or highest offer each, again, non-compatible with the new turquoise aerodynamic computer-things. All equipment as is, no guarantees Call 674-0910 and we will bargain as if we were travelling the silk route. ***NEW ON THE WEBSITE*** A few new additions, specifically, Jaime Manrique's essay, "Ashes & Embers: Presence of Latin American Poetry in New York City" in the World Archives Nathaniel Mackey's paper, "Design for Continuing Investigation" in the Project Papers Archives and Jonathan Mayhew's "Writing Experiments (with apologies to Bernadette Mayer)" at http://www.poetryproject.com ***AND COMING SOON*** Lawrence Ferlinghetti & Edward Sanders read a Sanctuary event on a Tuesday October 5, 1999 8 pm Hope to see you there! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:59:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Anyone know about Detroit-area readings and bookstores? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm headed to Detroit this weekend to catch a ballgame at Tiger Stadium, before they knock the ole lady down, and wonder if anyone knows about readings and bookstores in the area, zines, small presses, the works. A contact name and info would be great, too. Thanks and Be Good, David Kirschenbaum, editor Booglit ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:12:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Marsh Subject: Logo Lagoon from PBP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Poetics: PaperBrainPress is happy to announce the publication of John Olson's *Logo Lagoon* (24pp.), the seventh book in the chapbook series. This and other PBP chaps are $5 or $8 for any two. Or, for poetics folks, I'll gladly send this and another title to anyone who sends a couple bucks for postage. Please visit the updated website for a listing and samples of *Logo Lagoon* and other titles. http://www.sunbrella.net/paperbrainpress/ best wishes, Bill Marsh PaperBrainPress 1022 Emerald St. San Diego, CA 92109 William Marsh wmarsh@nu.edu http://www.sunbrella.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:41:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: Pretentious Picturea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forgive the seemingly endless analogising, but actually PP is a lot more like the Warhol/Basquiat collaborations: popster vs graffiti artist. Brian I assume your motivation was mostly derogatory (?) but I will maintain PERVERSELY that it is among the most successful Ashbery collaborations. --jacques ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:05:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Creeley on Wall Street MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Creeley today in WSJ Dow soars to 36K ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:48:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Tom Pickard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The British poet Tom Pickard will be reading in Huntington, West Virginia, on March 30th, and is trying to schedule some other readings--near or far--for the first two weeks of April. For those unfamiliar with Pickard, his poetry is delightful: I highly recommend TIEPIN EROS (Bloodaxe Books), his selected poems. He has been an important figure in British poetry for quite a while, and has a new volume that will soon be out entitled FUCKWIND. Please e-mail me if you have interest and resources to schedule a reading. Thanks, Devin Johnston ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Check out our new website! http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review Chicago Review 5801 S. Kenwood Ave. Chicago IL 60637 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:02:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Things Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes, I confess the Perelman view was very off, and the Harryman shrill and imprecise. I may be able to argue that I don't seem to have the leisure time to think things through as thoroughly as I'd like, but then again I'm impatient, and sometimes precision seems dull to me, even if the promise at the end is some degree of "profoundity." But I don't see anyone else, except perhaps Lowther at this point, writing about books on this list, unless it's to demonstrate some bibliographic skill that, in the end, is rather uninspiring, or if it's to pounce on some third party for a salty phrase which, in the end, turns out to be a partisan dispute regarding reputations rather than text (the author of the review not being available to offer counter-arguments -- whereas I am). Not to be so glum and down -- or reductive -- but I don't quite know what this list is for. It seems even a bad review could garner some degree of thoughtful consideration from those who at least feel the urge to make jibes -- is that worth the effort? Who's impressed? I realize that we're dealing with several geographic areas that have their own mores which can be considered essential to them -- i.e. one person's salty phrase is another's version of downright condemnation -- but is there any way to break through that, not with an ax but with subtlety? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:25:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: SF Book Festival Panel Discussions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tisa this looks positively dreamy; any chance of a video or audio taping? At 1:15 PM -0700 9/18/99, Tisa Bryant wrote: >(Talk to Me) In My Language, a panel hosted by the 1999 San Francisco Bay >Area Book Festival, October 16, 1999, 3:30 pm, Fort Mason, Marina >Conference Center, San Francisco. Co-sponsored by Small Press Distribution >and Modern Times Bookstore. > >A gathering of innovative writers of color, exploring the nuances and >challenges of communication and community, tradition and experimentation, >publishing and politics, from the perspectives of >Will Alexander, Catalina Cariaga, Summi Kaipa, Pamela Lu, Nathaniel Mackey, >Harryette Mullen. Moderated by Tisa Bryant. > >Will Alexander' is the author of Asia & Haiti (Sun & Moon, 1995), >Stratospheric Canticles (Pantograph, 1995), Towards the Primeval Lightning >Field (O Books, 1998), and his latest book of poems, Above The Human Nerve >Domain (Pavement Saw Press, 1998). He has recent writing in the latest >issues of Chain, Fence, Orpheus Grid, and in translation, a set of poems in >the journal Vatra out of Bucharest, Romania. A special section of Callalloo, >edited by Harryette Mullen and dedicated to the work of Mr. Alexander, is >forthcoming, as is his novella, Alien Weaving, from Green Integer Press. > >Catalina Cariaga was born in Los Angeles, CA (1958) and received her >Bachelors of Music from Mount St. Mary's College in Los Angeles, and her >Masters of Fine Arts in Creative Writing from San Francisco State >Unversity. She is a contributing editor of Poetry Flash, a Poetry Review >and Literary Calendar for the West. She has taught on the adjunct faculty >of the Poetics Program at New College of California in San Francisco. Her >poetry has been published in many journals, including Chain, Lipstick 11, >New American Writing and ZYZZYVA. Cultural Evidence is her first book of >poetry (Subpress, 1999). She works for University Relations at UC >Berkeley, and lives in Oakland. > >Summi Kaipa is the editor of Interlope, a journal of Asian American poetics. >She has published work in Fourteen Hills Review, Kenning, Rhizome, Rain >Taxi, Tool A Magazine and Tripwire . A chapbook of her poetic work is >forthcoming from Leroy Press. > >Pamela Lu was born in Southern California and studied mathematics at the >University of California, Berkeley. Since 1995 she has worked as a technical >writer in Silicon Valley and co-edited Idiom (www.idiomart.com), an online >journal and chapbook press. In addition to a book of fanciful non-fiction, >Pamela: A Novel (Atelos Press,1999), she has had prose and poetry published >in a number of journals, including Chain, Chicago Review, Clamour, Explosive >Magazine, Interlope, Mirage, and Poetics Journal. She lives in San >Francisco. > >Nathaniel Mackey is the author of several chapbooks and books of poetry, >among them Four for Trane (Golemics, 1978), Outlantish (Chax Press, 1992) >Eroding Witness (University of Illinois Press, 1985), School of Udhra (City >Lights Books, 1993) and Whatsaid Serif (City Lights Books, 1998). Strick: >Song of the Andoumboulou 16-25, a compact disc recording of poems read with >musical accompaniment was released in 1995 by Spoken Engine Company. He is >the author of an ongoing prose composition, From A Broken Bottle Traces of >Perfume Still Emanate, of which two volumes have been published: Bedouin >Hornbook (Callaloo Fiction Series, 1986; second edition: Sun & Moon >Press,1997) and Djbot Baghostus's Run (Sun & Moon Press, 1993), and editor >of the literary magazine Hambone, and coeditor (with Art Lange) of the >anthology Moment's Notice: Jazz in Poetry and Prose (Coffee House Press, >1993). He is also the author of a book of critical essays, Discrepant >Engagement: Dissonance, Cross-Culturality, and Experimental Writing >(Cambridge University Press, 1993). Mr. Mackey is Professor of Literature >at the University of California, Santa Cruz. > >Harryette Mullen's most recent book of poems, her fourth, is Muse and Drudge >(Singing Horse Press, 1995). Her previous books of poems include Trimmings >(Tender Buttons, 1991) and S*PeRM**K*T (Singing Horse Press, 1992). Ms. >Mullen's work has just appeared or is forthcoming in Hambone, Moving >Borders: An Anthology of Innovative Writing by Women, The Gertrude Stein >Awards for Innovative Poetry, Santa Monica Review, Frame-Work, and the >exhibit catalog of the Kimchi Xtravaganza at the Korean American Museum. >She is also the author of Freeing the Soul: Race, Subjectivity and >Difference in Slave Narratives, forthcoming from Cambridge University Press, >December 1999. She teaches at the University of California, Los Angeles. > >***************************************************************************** >Followed by "Fast, Cheap and Out of Control: New Publishers at SPD", a >panel of new SPD publishers will discuss and answer questions about running >a successful small press today. The panel will be moderated by Laura >Moriarty, Assistant Director of Small Press Distribution, and features: >SKANKY POSSUM Hoa Nguyen, Dale Smith >MELODEON POETRY SYSTEMS Peter Neufield, Eric Frost >KRUPSKAYA Jocelyn Saidenberg, Hung Q. Tu >FLIPSIDE Anatalio C. Ubalde >ATELOS Lyn Hejinian, Travis Ortiz > >20% OFF ALL BOOKS ALL DAY >OCTOBER 16 & 17, 10-6PM >SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA BOOK FESTIVAL > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************************************ >Today we declare: >First, they are living in a Nono form; >Second, they are Nono lives; >Third, they make us feel Nono; >Fourth, they make us become Nono; >Fifth, we Nono. > Lan Ma > "Manifesto of Nonoism" > (Chendu, China, May 4, 1986) >*************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:40:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: ACLU, WDS and Plaintiffs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to the ACLU, Web Del Sol, and other plaintiffs, a preliminary injunction was leveled against enforcement or threatened enforcement of 1999 PA 33, Michigan's net censorship act--a law which would have placed all publishers in potential legal jeopardy. This means that the "law" will not go into effect, and that the State of Michigan may not enforce it or attempt to prosecute any net publisher until the lawsuit is concluded. The Judge agreed with us on all of our arguments that the law is unconstitutional. A copy of the decision is available here: Mike Neff Editor WDS ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:26:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: IMAGINING query LANGUAGE In-Reply-To: <5D5C5C8C3A41D211893900A024D4B97C8BE336@md2.facstaff.oglethorpe.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" email for Jed Rasula please? backchannel... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:21:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: COMBO party - Sat. Sept. 25, 6pm! In-Reply-To: <3e9f6140.2517a9a8@aol.com> from "Jacques Debrot" at Sep 20, 1999 11:15:52 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, wanted to let you know that there'll be a party celebrating the first 4 issues of COMBO this Saturday, Sept. 25, at 6pm at the Writers House in Philadelphia (3805 Locust Walk on Penn's campus). You're all cordially invited so if you happen to be in the area. please do stop by. Food, drink, readings by past and future contributors, music, and the unveiling of COMBO 4 (the formal announcement for which I'll send to y'all on Monday). Should be a good time, and there's nothin like surprise guests to spice up an occassion. Hope to see some of you there. Feel free to email me for more info. -Mike. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:27:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Carol L. Hamshaw" Subject: EEC Website Launch and Fundraiser MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Website Launch and Fundraiser October 2, 1999 Video In Studios, 1965 Main Street Contact: 904-9362/984-1712 WEBSITE LAUNCH AND FUNDRAISER Come celebrate The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre’s new website and virtual Writer’s Workshop hosted by Seven Sisters. The Sisters will be reading and the website will be displayed on computer monitors at Video In Studios. Admission is $5 and proceeds go to the programs and services of the Edgewise Café’s online writer’s workshop, such as honorariums to well-known guest writers who will facilitate the workshop once a month. The workshop is an online method for writer’s to share their work and receive critique in a friendly, facilitated atmosphere. Meet writers from around the world and explore their work as well as receive feedback on your own: visit www.edgewisecafe.org. The Edgewise Café Online also features a quarterly e-zine of Canadian poets. It publishes poetry, fiction, and art, as well as audio and video of selected works by writers such as Wayde Compton, Sheri-D Wilson, bill bissett, Loranne Brown, Andrea Thompson, S.R. Duncan, Pete McCormack, Bud Osborn, Adeena Karasick and more. The site delivers the latest news on the organization and its affiliates and serves as an excellent resource for creative online publishing and information for writers. GET CONNECTED! Seven Sisters is an independent writing collective, a diverse and flexible group of writers meeting in Vancouver. Initiated in February 1997, the group formed to further develop members’ writing through critiques, discussion and group projects. The group has performed at the Vancouver International Writer’s Festival, the Vancouver Public Library (on International Women’s Day) and at the Tongue Stomp reading series. The group is currently facilitating a weekly poetry electronic workshop that is part of Edgewise ElectroLit Café, The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre’s website at www.edgewisecafe.org. Their anthology, Seven Sisters, is available at Women In Print and Duthies Books. Judy MacInnes Jr writes fiction and poetry and is working on her first book of poetry. Susan MacRae is a poet and playwright. Molly Starlight has written and acted with the First Nations School of Acting. Billie Livingston’s first novel, Going Down Swinging, will appear from Random House in January 2000. Shamina Senaratne is active as a writer, performer and textile artist. Andrea Galbraith has had two plays staged, and also writes fiction and non-fiction. Antonia Banyard will participate in the 1999 Writing Studio at the Banff Centre for the Arts. Sara Graefe is a playwright and fiction writer who just completed a residency at Norman Jewison's Canadian Film Centre. Natalie Meisner is a playwright and poet, and has won the Canadian National Playwrighting Competition. The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre is a nonprofit society whose mandate is to exploit communications technology to widen the audience of Canadian poetry and to give poets, multi-media artists and youth the opportunity to use, learn, and create with this technology. Videoconferencing and online publishing are the major technologies that we work with. Our electronic magazine can be viewed and heard at . We also are hosting Canada’s first Videopoem Festival at Video In Studios November 7, 1999. -- Carol L. Hamshaw Administrator Edgewise ElectroLit Centre http://www.edgewisecafe.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:47:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Reiner Subject: New book by Lisa Lubasch Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Avec Books announces the publication of *How Many of Them Are You?* by Lisa Lubasch (ISBN 1-880713-19-5) From a review in *Publisher's Weekly* -- "A poet in her mid-20s, Lubasch writes with the intensity of a witness to the "birth of consciousness" in the classic late-19th-century sense. And, indeed, of the many echoes that resound in her debut volume, those of the most angst-ridden, defiant, uber-menschlich Europeans--Rimbaud, Nietzsche, Lautr=E9amont, the ironist Laforgue--are the most apparent...Mostly apostrophic, with direct addresses to the reader, a lover or the powers tha= t be, the poems approach being and consciousness with the irony-shucking fury of a new Promethean...Lubasch is at an interesting crossroads, one where th= e integrity of the fragment, and the continuities of lyric are simultaneously questioned...It is a fraught ride that Lubasch provides, and one looks forward to what her future, already foretold as a minefield of possibilities, holds." *How Many More of Them Are You?* is a book of texts and sub-texts on identity, love, on what is perceived and what is known. Divided into six sections, within which are "notes," fragments and "leprosariums," *How Many More of Them Are You* encompasses many voices and philosophic questions. In a literary era of detached irony, Lubasch's voice is passionate, dramatic and subtly humorous. Her poetry is unusual and completely unique. Check out the Avec Books web site http://www.litpress.com/how.html for excerpts, audio clips, and advance comments by Lyn Hejinian, Wayne Koestenbaum, Cole Swensen, and Gillian Conoley $14 Available from: Small Press Distribution (not up on their web site yet, but they have it) Baker & Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:37:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: daniel bouchard Subject: East Timor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "Only more bloodthirsty" "Only more bloodthirsty" The phrase rings in the ear. Now, THAT'S knowledge. Moving beyond rational queries into "group behavior" now we state with certainty which savages (re: not American) not only THIRST for blood, but which ones do it more than others. And better than others. The Indonesian military and the militias they oversee show great ingenuity. Not content with the stockpiles of American arms (Indonesia produces none or few or none) they've also used locally manufactured machetes. This shows spirit in less reliance on imports. Good for them. The first steps to releasing oneself from the IMF yoke may be found in such actions. After all, the people being slaughtered are hardly armed at all. Who needs an M16 to do a machetes job? It sure sounds better on NPR to report that machetes are being used. Exotic locale needs flavor. Machetes aren't even a garden tool in the US. Anyone handling a machete must reside in a universe far different from yours and mine. But they have guns too; American made. And still people insist this proves nothing. What was it we had set out to prove, learn, listen to one another? The US is guilty of atrocities in East Timor, or only "shares" in the responsibility? Sharing is the first step in exoneration. The US arms, trains, and funds despots only with the best intentions. Arm your friends to the teeth in the fight for democracy. It's they who will fire the weapons. If you believe this your conscience will never be bothered. I wonder, now that Allan Nairn has been deported from Indonesia, how many appearances he will make in the mainstream media. Wouldn't the last American reporter in East Timor make an interesting interview? As quoted on this list earlier Nairn states that the US bears "some" of the responsibility. If put before a major network TV camera however, he may begin to broadcast loudly just how much that "some" consists of. The usual pattern is that the "mainstream" media will ignore someone like Nairn, someone who actually saw things happening and can offer explanation and analysis for the events, even a white guy. No, what we'll hear are modified press releases from the State Department and see footage borrowed from Australian TV at least until it's safe enough (Western military presence) for western media to go back and we'll hear anguished statements from US officials about the "tragedy," and how, like last time, we must stop it next time and so on. Fuck that. I have no voice with the Indonesian government. I have one here. I know that my government did everything BUT handle the machetes in East Timor. My efforts need to take place here, however small or insignificant they seem. No time to "educate" or argue Neff. <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:05:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Shapiro Subject: Jewish literary evening adds "Women of the Wall" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in addition, meet film-maker Faye Lederman, who has made "WOMEN OF THE WALL"=20 , a compelling film about the struggle for equality at the Western Wall in=20 Jerusalem; clips from the film will be shown during the literary afternoon a= t=20 the 1st Annual NEW JEWISH LITERATURE & WRITING event Sunday, September 26,1999 LOCATION: 40 West 45 Street (near Fifth Avenue), 2nd floor New York, New York RSVP or for more information: (212) 604-4823 or jewishbookevent@aol.com FREE EVENT 2:00pm THANE ROSENBAUM reads from SECOND HAND SMOKE (St. Martin's) a story=20 taking place in the seamy underbelly of Miami Beach's Collins Avenue, where=20 Mila Katz, Holocaust survivor and confidante to Miami's mobsters, lives by=20 her wits. Thane Rosenbaum, the literary editor of Tikkun Magazine, has published=20 ELIJAH VISIBLE, which=20 Received the Edward Lewis Wallant Book Award. His essays and reviews have=20 appeared in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post= ,=20 and elsewhere.=20 3:00pm ALAN KAUFMAN reads poems from WHO ARE WE? =20 (Davka Press), a book of poetry about Jewish themes. Kaufman currently lives in San Francisco. His poetry has appeared in Tikkun=20 Magazine, Identity Lessons: Learning American Style (Penguin Books), and=20 Aloud: Voices From The Nuyorican Caf=E9 (Henry Holt). He is also the author of a forthcoming book THE OUTLAW BIBLE OF AMERICAN=20 POETRY (Thunder's Mouth) -which contains poets from Ginsberg and Kerouac to=20 comedians such as Lenny Bruce and Richard Pryor, to song writers such as Bob=20 Dylan, Jim Morrison, and Janis Joplin.and editor of a cool Jewish website.=20 Kaufman is also the author of THE NEW GENERATION: FICTION BEFORE OUR TIME=20 FROM AMERICA'S WRITING PROGRAMS. 4:00pm MELVIN JULES BUKIET reads from a new anthology NEUROTICA: JEWISH=20 WRITERS ON SEX (WW Norton). The book contains pieces by Woody Allen, Saul=20 Bellow, Nathan Englander, Erica Jong, Francine Prose, and Isaac Bashevis=20 Singer, among others. Melvin Bukiet's other works include SIGNS AND WONDERS= ,=20 AFTER, WHILE THE MESSIAH TARRIES, STORIES OF AN IMAGINARY CHILDHOOD, and=20 SANDMAN'S DUST. His work appeared in the OXFORD BOOK OF JEWISH STORIES, and is proprietor of=20 KGB BAR downtown.=20 Free doorprizes of SUCCOT holiday fruit baskets! Come hear exciting new=20 voices in Jewish literature! ALL are invited! Near the New York Is Book=20 Country festival! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:37:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Grant Jenkins Subject: The DC Scene In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've just moved to the DC/Richmond area and was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to clue me in on bookstores, reading groups, events, organizations, etc. in the area. Any backchanneled information and/or introductions would be greatly appreciated. Grant ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:27:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: It was 20 years ago today... Comments: cc: David Bromige MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah, David, I have no idea what's become of Judith Barry -- the only mention I see at all on Hotbot to same is to a woman who married in 1719 and gave birth to the Earl of Farnham, thus unlikely to be the same person I performed with on 20 June '79. Which my own rotting braincells suggest was in 1978 anyway. The Farm was a performance space just off of the Mission District in San Francisco. It lasted for about a decade. In '79, Jill Scott, an Australian painter/performance artist and I put together a series that combined one poet and one performance artist. This ran for about 6 weeks. Jill had been quite curious at how closely different poets (such as thee and me, David) seemed to influence one another, how everybody turned up for one's readings, while performance artists had little or nothing to say to one another (Tom Marioni's Museum of Conceptual Art, upstairs from the famed Jerry & Johnny's bar, had closed maybe the year before, to give way to what has subsequently become the Marriott Jukebox, the old third street seamen's hotels having made way for the Moscone Center, the Yerba Buena Arts Center, the SF MOMA etc). I read downstairs -- a straightforward reading (I recall Robert Duncan in the first row, cackling at some of the groaners that seem to besot my work) except that there were geese present, honking and honking like so many saxophones. Ron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:50:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: Anyone know about Detroit-area readings and bookstores? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. - Tim ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999, 4:11 PM +0000 From: Joel Kuszai Subject: Re: Anyone know about Detroit-area readings and bookstores? Go to john king books, it is within walking distance of Tiger Stadium. On Lafayette, I believe, but right of the lodge fwy (10). A four story glory bookstore, it also has a branch in ferndale (home of suburbanites watten and harryman). If you get to kings books, give yourself time to go upstairs. I have found many rare gems there, including most recently a copy of PRISON ETIQETTE: A Compendium of Useful Information, written by the inmates, published in 1950 by Retort Press and edited by Holley Cantine and Dachine Rainer. I mention this because it is a rare book, often costing as much as 150 or 200 dollars. I found it at King's books for 20. On Tiger Stadium, I lament not being able to say goodbye to the only religious institution I have ever prayed in. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:45:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: A POLEMIC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A POLEMIC I subvert by suggesting alternative forms of to rely on outmoded conventions is highly problem I subvert traditional notions of meaning old structural approach challenged by a younger gen binary oppositions pfut, zagging across the page semantics of the visual sign can no longer be construed simple tertiary relationship but rather more complex more problematic seen outside a teleology principle of the greatest reduction I now am undermining a new body of readings I mean ousside as a colloquial usage but then again problem but then again no problem mindlobe how we undermine transparency of language I "mean" how it get rid of this illusion that we can see ideas of things through language no matter how defamiliarize we its essentials with usage of again technique sense-trapping within compounds to the bunk sense-chaining I believe the more appropriate word just as maximally subverting meter i.e. trying to write absolute prose absolute non-poetry generates its own constraints own meter own poetry evrbody shld try it sometime or else as I was yesterday subverting every syntactical by suddenly telemomma existence as structured out hangin three outflora gooters to specious and then I mean the sophists are clearly underrepresented in the academy have to try to hand out then man I wanna subvert something traditional language is driving me nads spuds exploding in the earth and then I salubriously reached the port the bloodmaster suggested I wait a few minutes till he apply his principles so I waited 15 minutes in the well lit sauna concresping with joy and redolence then the blurf guardelia hit the switch and the who bhagla roared splink splonk upon the capret and I had pfdno ek bawamnnnbh pevieg ba makmzinbb erated over and over again as a sort of closure abort abort how you hear me do you copy again subvert subvert and still meaning shines through subvert it and still it shines through that’s the magic ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:58:37 -0400 Reply-To: ndorward@sprint.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate and Jane Dorward Subject: Re: Things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd agree with Brian Stefans as to the utility of reviews on the list, so I'll post below a modest encomium I posted yesterday to the British-Poets discussion list--makes more sense here anyway, since the CD in question doeesn't contain any British poetry.... -- all best --N --- ....I should also mention a CD that popped through the mail recently, _Carnivocal: A celebration of sound poetry_ (Red Deer Press). It's a collection of Canadian sound poetry, both familiar and unfamiliar names: bpNichol, Christian Bok, Steven Ross Smith, Verbomotorhead, First Draft, bill bissett, Stephen Cain, W. Mark Sutherland, (3 of the 4) Horsemen and Owen Sound, Re:Sounding, Penn Kemp, Gerry Shikatani, Paul Dutton, Richard Truhlar & Steve McCaffery. The quality's generally high, the approaches quite various, ranging from "classic" sound-poetry (e.g. the dissection of a word into its component letters and syllables), to an almost pop-oriented sound reminiscent of Bobby McFerrin or the local kids imitating dance music with their mouths, to electronic treatments of sampled voices. Good to have an on-form Christian Bok represented generously--one of the real virtuosos of this form--, as ditto the hilarious collaboration between the Horsemen (Nichol, McCaffery, Dutton) and Owen Sound (Dean, SR Smith, Penhalf, Truhlar). The one disappointment on the collection is that the superb concluding track (McCaffery doing a part of _Carnival, Panel 2_) is in sub-bootleg-quality sound (bad enough to faze even fans of Eugene Chadbourne or Lennie Tristano...). The rest of the collection is in very good sound, so this comes as something of a shock! -- Anyway, the compilation as a whole is certainly recommended. -- In Canada the CD's distributed through Raincoast Books, 8680 Cambie Street, Vancouver, BC, Canada, V6P 6M9 (ph: (800) 663-5714). Not sure if that goes for the UK & US too: perhaps try contacting the editor, Douglas Barbour, at . --- Nate & Jane Dorward ndorward@sprint.ca 109 Hounslow Ave., Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ph: (416) 221 6865 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:32:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Help! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Could someone backchannel me Kathy Lederer's phone #? Check with her, natch, if there's any hesitation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:59:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Enough (was RE: I can't believe it!!!) In-Reply-To: <19990921024548.26073.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ms. Houlihan, That you maintain your insistence on the lack of a "connection" or "motivation" beyond the casually commercial, despite voluminous postings and references to sources substantiating claims to the contrary, is, frankly, fine with me. I have no wish to use this space to convince those who have decided not to be convinced. My purpose in responding to this thread was to offer a counter to what I saw as misinformation being offered by Mr. Neff. I and others have done that, and it seems that to continue this exchange beyond the present point would be simply to run in circles at great waste of bandwidth. To follow out the implications of Elizabeth Treadwell's message: the information is available for those who want it, and at this point in the life of this thread, no one on the list is learning anything new. Also, I take your appeal to scarcity of time very seriously - I write in spare moments at work, and I have better things to do with that time. Yell at people in William Cohen's office, for one. Post to Poetics about things like the McCaffery and Rasula anthology, for another, in greater depth and with greater care than the past few days have allowed me. Or review two readings (Saidenberg/Singleton, Lu/Harryman) of last weekend, both of which deserve a fairly close account. Eat lunch. Step outside and watch the unseasonable electrical storms... The list is a decent resource for political information, far less so for the nuances of political argument, and with that I'll shut up for a while. Taylor Brady ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:52:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: Verbal Eyes at The Farm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well, Ron, the poster for the series is on my wall...yes, 197_9_ could be a printer's error, but the date of my own reading, Aug 30, proves it could not have been 197_8_, because into my own script I incorporated the theft of my car (a '65 Dodge called Mr Blue) which occurred shortly _after_ Aug 30/78. (A kind of "Welcome to SF" theft; we had moved into the city only a month before). (Oddly, the week we moved back to Sonoma County, in Nov/79, SFPD notified me Mr Blue had turned up in Hunters Point, no longer driveable but still in its trunk were several slim vols of our colleagues, dampened but not obliterated.) (By then, I had been driving for more than a year Mr Normal, so-named because of the letters NML on its plate, but also because it was a 75 Chevy Nova.) The roster of poets reading also establishes that I am not a Language Poet, since my name is the only one that does not end in 'n'. Harryman, Hejinian, Watten, Robinson and your good self(on _Sep_ 20, not June) out-alphabet me. My performance (I suppose I thought we were supposed to perform, rather than give a 'straightforward reading') consisted of a straightforward beginning increasingly interrupted by my own tape-recorded voice listing a string of urban plaints.(So, similar to your rdg, in that it was interrupted by honkings). All I recall of its reception is that Victoria Rathbu N (obviously an embryo LangPo person) was reduced to tears. I wish there had been a booklet of reviews of these events put together, a la Langton St 'scribings,'and I would urge current curators to attempt this, for what others did escapes me now, and I was counting on yr prodigious memory. Lyn performed with her brother, I know. All events were well-attended; it was the forming (not _farming_, despite it was at 'The Farm', and notwithstanding Judith Barry's geese) community at perhaps its peak of mutual interest. By way of P.S., the N-ending as requirement for echte LangPoets--a sort of shibboleth in type--has been commented on before in these 'pages'. The apparent anomaly of Bruce Andrews is obviously due to a forbear leaving off the 'son' suffix of BA's Scandinavian ancestors. Thus we learn that neither Jack Spicer, nor Kathleen Fraser, nor Bob Grenier, nor Clark Coolidge, nor Michael Palmer, nor Tom Mandel, nor Erica Hunt, nor David Bromige, could be anything but urLP; their fate was sealed by The Alphabet. Ted Berrigan, however, might be the second LangPoet, if George Oppen is the first. (Not Robt Duncan; his name should have stayed Robt Symmes). And hadn't you always suspected that Rae Armantrout's LangPo status derived from her friendships rather than her (stunning, lyrical, 'objectivist') poems? David ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:09:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: San Francisco Book Festival Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Advance notice (I'll post again clloser to the event): I'll be sitting behind the table at booth 42 at the San Francisco Book Festival, 10am to 6pm at Fort Mason on October 16th and 17th. Charles Alexander will be sitting next to me--Chax Press and Junction Press are sharing the booth. I look forward to meeting list members there. Joyce Jenkins has arranged readings--I'll post when I get a list. Will any others out there be exhibiting? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:13:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: COMBO 4 - it's solid gold!!! In-Reply-To: <3e9f6140.2517a9a8@aol.com> from "Jacques Debrot" at Sep 20, 1999 11:15:52 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, I couldn't wait till monday... ANNOUNCING THE ARRIVAL OF... CCC OO MM MM BBBB OOO 4 4 C C O O M M M M B B O O 4 4 C 0 O M M M BBBB O O 44444444 C O O M M M B B 0 O 4 C C O O M M B B O O 4 CCC OOO M M BBBB OOO 4 FEAUTURING NEW POEMS BY.... MYTILI JAGANNATHAN LORENZO THOMAS SERGEY GANDLEVSKY MICHAEL MAGEE-&-NATE CHINEN RANDY PRUNTY JACQUES DEBROT CARL MARTIN PAIGE MENTON K. SILEM MOHAMMAD GIL OTT ROD SMITH TOM RAWORTH KRISTEN GALLAGHER SHAWN WALKER **************************************************** "HOLY SHIT IS THERE ALOT OF GOOD POEMS IN THIS ISSUE!!!!" - Anonymous For those of you still out of the loop which is COMBOmania: this issue is a glossy, sexy 56 pgs. single copies: $3.00 4-issue subscriptions: $10.00 SPECIAL OFFER (limited time): the first four issues of COMBO (newly reprinted) delivered together, plus a new 4-issue subscription: $20.00 For those of you who purchase COMBO just for the covers: this issue is a stunning black and gold, or gold and black, depending on how you pick it up. ....what are you waiting for?? ORDER NOW!! email mmagee@english.upenn.edu or send check made out to Michael Magee, 31 Perrin Ave., Pawtucket, RI 02861 [NOTE to CURRENT SUBSCRIBERS: copies go out on Monday - Thanks!!!] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:41:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: getting ready to have been frightened MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm with you, Alan. All these digested listafarian cyberpostcards emerge dry as feeling's fossils. It is time to retool. Time to take a shot at democracy again. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:17:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Creeley in the WSJ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Somebody mentioned this the other day. I reckon there aren't that many of us here that read the Wall Street Urinal. Maybe this is one result of the Bollingen, or his election to the Academy of American Poets, or perhaps a sign that the long over due Pulizer, National Book Award or (and why not) Nobel are not impossible. Nonetheless, praise from strange quarters. Ron --------------- LEISURE & ARTS: Words Worth a Thousand Pictures --- Juxtaposing Poetry and Painting, Robert Creeley's Collaborations Give Art New Meaning Anne Midgette Wall Street Journal, September 22, 1999 New York Put words together with music, and it's often the music you hear first. Put words together with a picture, and people will often read them as a caption. "The poetry does get eaten up by the image," says artist Archie Rand. Poet Robert Creeley wouldn't agree. In 1998, he collaborated with Mr. Rand on "Drawn and Quartered," a collection of 54 prints by Mr. Rand, each embellished with a quatrain by Mr. Creeley. And the show "In Company: Robert Creeley's Collaborations," now at the New York Public Library, displays this and 46 other collaborations Mr. Creeley has done with visual artists over the past 46 years. In books, portfolios and broadsheets created with the likes of Francesco Clemente and Jim Dine, R.B. Kitaj and Sol LeWitt, words and images maintain an uneasy tension: The pictures are not illustrations of the texts, the texts not captions to the pictures. Juxtaposing poetry and painting "keeps shifting the emotional center," says Mr. Creeley, "particularly working with someone like Clemente, with such affective particularizing imagery. Any person reading what I've written and seeing what he's made is moving back and forth between two emotional fields." The show, which originated at the Castellani Art Museum of Niagara University (N.Y.), is handsome testimony to Mr. Creeley's creative life. Now 73, Mr. Creeley, who once wanted to be a novelist but ultimately concentrated on the "domestic" realm of poetry, has followed an academic career, holding a professorship at SUNY Buffalo and teaching at other universities around the world, while garnering awards and grants from a Guggenheim through a tenure as New York State Poet (1989-91) to this year's prestigious Bollingen Prize. By age, he belongs to the periphery of the Beat generation; by allegiance, to Black Mountain College, where he taught and received his B.A. in the '50s after dropping out of Harvard a decade before, in the spring of his senior year. At Black Mountain, the verbal and visual arts met as a matter of course. "There was a small job press in the print studio," recalls poet Jonathan Williams, who like Mr. Creeley attended Black Mountain and was enormously influenced there by the poet Charles Olson. "(Poet) Joel Oppenheimer was a student, and he knew something about printing; and (Robert) Rauschenberg made a drawing for a poem of Joel's. It was the first time anything of Rauschenberg's had ever been published." That broadside launched Mr. Williams's Jargon press, which has since produced more than 100 books of poetry, photography, drawings and whatever else takes the publisher's fancy. Mr. Creeley's 1953 collaboration with French artist Rene Laubies, "The Immoral Proposition," in which Mr. Laubies's Franz Kline-like gestural drawings threaten to ensnare the printed poems in their tangles, was Jargon's eighth publication, and is the first Creeley collaboration in this show. Spare yet lush, tough yet yielding, Mr. Creeley's poetry is ideally suited for such collaboration, portraying states of being or facets of reality without, usually, creating images itself. In a catalog essay, poet John Yau points out that Mr. Creeley shares with the Abstract Expressionists a concern with his physical media -- with doing things that are only possible in words -- and with the process of making art, playing with the sense of time and narrative flow in subjective, elliptical juxtapositions of words and sentences. Mr. Creeley was attracted to the work of an Abstract Expressionist like Jackson Pollock because, as he explained to the show's curator, Elizabeth Licata, "It's a way of stating what one feels without describing it." Mr. Creeley aims for this kind of statement in his own poetry. Collaborating with visual artists is a way for him to expand the terms of his poetry beyond the horizons of the self. The nature of collaboration varies. In some cases, such as "The Immoral Proposition," poems and images simply coexist side by side. In others, Mr. Creeley sent completed poems to the artist, or wrote poems based on existing images, such as "Life & Death" with Francesco Clemente in 1993. "It's not a question of understanding the paintings," he says, "but of picking up their vibes -- more like playing in a band." Among the most successful collaborations in the show are the "Numbers," which Mr. Creeley did with pop artist Robert Indiana in 1968. Mr. Indiana made large, slick silkscreens of the numerals one through nine, and Mr. Creeley furnished poems dealing with aspects of each number. Because Mr. Indiana's posterlike style evokes printing-press production, there's a seamless fit between the artist's images and the printed word. In sober black type on a sheet of otherwise empty paper, each poem contrasts with the loud exclamation of the numeral opposite it, and preserves a kind of theoretical balance between letters and numbers into the bargain. As the poet became better known, he was invited to do projects with artists he didn't actually know, coordinated by third-party dealers or publishers. While some of these projects are beautiful, the distance between the collaborators is reflected in a kind of coolness in "7&6," with Robert Therrien (1988), or "Visual Poetics," with Donald Sultan (1998). In these, Mr. Creeley's poetry is more literal. Where he avoids simply describing the artists' images in collaborations with Mr. Clemente or Marisol, he is specific about the associations evoked by Mr. Therrien's small, one-color geometric shapes, and his poems reflect the painter's finicky precision. He is similarly descriptive of Mr. Sultan's quasi-photographic outline images of fruit and flowers ("Looks like a pear? Is yellow?"), writing, as in many of his other poems, in stanzas that fall in and out of rhyme. "There are artists whose work doesn't really let anyone else in," says Mr. Creeley, speaking particularly of John Chamberlain, an old friend from Black Mountain, who sent him the lithographs for "Famous Last Words" in 1988. "I don't know what the poems have to do with the images" in that collaboration, Mr. Creeley laughs. In other cases, there's a real dialogue between the two art forms. "Sometimes, when my work has a unique form," Mr. Clemente has said, "it calls for his (Mr. Creeley's) ability to read it." And Mr. Creeley describes Susan Rothenberg's reaction to a poem he wrote for a catalog of her upcoming retrospective in Boston (the two collaborated on "Parts" in 1993). "I was working from images the museum provided," he says. After Ms. Rothenberg read the poem, "the phone rings; and she said, `How did you know? I don't really know you that well; how did you know this?' I said, `I look at your paintings, friend.'" Displaying these books and folios in a show, whether on the walls of a museum in Buffalo or pinned like butterflies in the library's display cases in New York, means seeing poetry, at least in part, as a kind of visual art. Placed next to a painting or print, the words are pinned into the realm of the seen, becoming something that must be looked at as well as read. Indeed, reading Mr. Creeley's poems as if they were paintings brings into sharp focus the counterpoint between horizontal and vertical, between the meaning of individual lines and of the sentences they form when taken together as a whole. But looking, in a museum context, is not a wholly satisfying way to take in poetry. Marvelously, the show's catalog comes with an excellent CD-ROM that reproduces several pages of each collaboration, word and image, which allows the viewer the option of reading the poems in intimacy, and creates the implied irony that new technology is able to give words, again, the upper hand. --- "In Company: Robert Creeley's Collaborations" is now on view at the New York Public Library through Jan. 15, 2000, and subsequently travels to the Weatherspoon Art Gallery at the University of North Carolina in Greensboro (Feb. 13-April 22); the University of South Florida Contemporary Art Museum in Tampa (May 15-July 15); and Green Library at Stanford University (Aug. 20-Jan. 6, 2001) ------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:15:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ORDERS, BEDE, OTHERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII o ORDERS, BEDE, OTHERS ALBUS HEUUALD come back from Old Saxony, because you're going to be martyred there! Don't forget to bring your brother NIGER as well! BISI you'd better retire and turn your job in East Anglia over to Aecci! Right now! CEDD write and tell us what your brother Ceadda think of Lastingham! Did he think you "did a good job"? Did you tell your mom? What are you guys doing in LUGUBALIA? FORDERHERI, how was Rome? I bet you had a good time - too bad you had to leave Sherborne! Help! The DANAI are coming! I wonder what CYNIBERCT had to say about that? UICTRED, do you know if CEDD told his mom? We haven't heard a word! Meanwhile, just what happened between you and Suaebheard when you were joint kings? Tell us! UILFRID write and tell us why you were so bad? They didn't like you in York, I bet! Glad to see you were over at LINDISFARNE - did you see all the neat stuff there? Was it really all written on vellum? Did they have a lot of sheep? I bet they had a lot of sheep! RING! RING! CEDD, your mom's on the phone! 1 226 ms ipt-ba5.proxy.aol.com [152.163.213.229] 2 306 ms tot4-r6-F6-1-0.proxy.aol.com [152.163.213.253] 3 242 ms tpopr-rri1-P3-3.tpopr-rri.aol.com [152.163.132.149] 4 169 ms tpopr-rre1-P9-0.tpopr-rr.aol.com [152.163.132.1] 5 260 ms uunet-gw1-P4-0.router.aol.com [152.163.132.186] 6 233 ms 131.ATM3-0.XR2.DCA1.ALTER.NET [146.188.161.94] 7 334 ms 194.ATM1-0.TR2.DCA1.ALTER.NET [146.188.161.146] 8 1271 ms 101.ATM6-0.TR2.NYC1.ALTER.NET [146.188.136.218] 9 1205 ms 198.ATM7-0.XR2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [146.188.179.37] 10 1132 ms 188.ATM8-0-0.GW2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [146.188.178.129] 11 * [] 12 1289 ms panix6.panix.com [166.84.0.231] Hi Mom! What a mess! I can hardly reach you from here! We're down in HROFESCESTIR at the moment! It's pretty terrific - you should see all the bridges! PENDA, tell me! Where on earth is Mercia? I haven't a clue! Do you know that Wight held out against CAEDWALLA, relying on Mercia, "fiducia Merciorum"? What a mess again! Caedwalla appears when you least expect him! Just when "per factionem principum a West Saxonia expulsus!" And who knows where West Saxony is! If it's old, and I bet it is, is it Old West Saxony? How do these people ever get home? "The trace is not only the disappearance of origin -- within the discourse that we sustain and according to the path that we follow it means that the origin did not even disappear, that it was never constituted except recip- rocally by a nonorigin, the trace, which thus becomes the origin of the origin." (DERRIDA BISCOP) CEDD, stop it! Don't you know "Britannia Oceani insula, eui quondom Albion nomen fuit, inter septentrionem et occidentem locata est, Germaniae, Gal- liae, Hispaniae, maximis Europae partibus, mutlo interuallo aduersa?" SORRY, I WAS TALKING TO MY MOM! ___________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:32:12 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: The POETRY INTO FILM Competition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Announcing the first ever POETRY INTO FILM competition sponsored by Web Del >Sol, a co-sponsor of the First Annual Literary Arts Film Awards to be held >in New York city at the National Arts Club. maybe i should send the twenty short films where i have animated many of our contemporary visual poets works, people like rea nikonova /carol stetser/and many others//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:47:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: About A.BACUS / Ganick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: "Peter Ganick" Date: 9/20/99 6:25 AM -0400 For a while, the future of A.BACUS, the newsletter publication of Potes & Poets Press with 124 issues under its belt, was in doubt. The current editor, Peter Ganick, was lucky enough, how- ever to find Dan Featherston to be the editor starting with issues in year 2001. The newsletter was started in 1984. Dan is looking at manuscripts for inclusion. Manuscripts with sufficient return postage should be sent to: Dan Featherston, A.BACUS, P O Box 40664, Tuscon AZ 85717. A.BACUS2000 is already planned and will feature, among others, Joan Retallack, Charles Alexander, Michael Basinski, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Stacy Doris, and Christina Monti. Individual issues can be pre-ordered from Potes & Poets Press, 181 Edgemont Avenue, Elmwood CT 06110-1005 for $5 each postpaid, or $30 for the full year of 8 issues, sent first class in an envelope. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:46:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Kevin Magee's work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT AH Bramhall posts very thoughtful remarks about the series from Kevin Magee which appeared on the List a month or so ago. Nice to have a second to the bravo I threw out back then. But I know we two can't be the only ones who were/are deeply impressed. Do go back to see these pieces in the archives if you haven't. They're extraordinary-- politics and poesis interlocked and grappling and getting rough on each other and climaxing together. You can't help but watch. Kent ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:48:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: call for work, subscribers! / Ganick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris -- From:"Peter Ganick" Date: 9/22/99 5:52 AM -0400 POTEPOETZINE, an electronic magazine, is looking for submissions of poetry for its next few issues. Poems should be of an experimental or neo-L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E nature. Send three or four screens of poetry in text or attached form. POTEPOETTEXT, also an electronic magazine, but one which features significant collections of poems by one poet or essays on current philosophical, poetic, or cyber issues, is also seeking submissions. SUBSCRIPTIONS to both ezines can be had free of charge by sending your name and email address to: . No formal procedure is necessary, just a note to the editor is enough. You can unsubscribe at any time at the same address. Previous issues of the ezines are archived at: where there are also a number of other excellent ezines archived. Recent issues of the ezines are added whenever an issue is sent. POTEPOETZINE and POTEPOETTEXT are publications of Potes & Poets Press, Peter Ganick, editor. Potes & Poets Press has been publishing avant-garde poetry since 1981 and publishes perfectbound books, A.BACUS - a newsletter-format serial, the ezines, and will soon be accepting again submissions for its younger writers new chapbook series. Send for individual email messages describing current offerings and how to order them, and submission guidelines to the chapbook series. The Press' email address is: and all correspondence should be sent to that address regarding concerns raised by this message. Thank you for your time. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:27:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: A crown of iron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In response to a post I called "The sound of drums," Michael Neff has written to tell me of his surprise at my "quick about face." I believe my implied other face must be pinned to a post I put up a few days ago, one that contained a reference to David Hume and ended with a statement about my complete agreement with Michael's position on East Timor. Since the intended tone of that first rebuttal did not register with him, I am thinking that others on the List may have taken it wrongly too. So, for what it's worth (and to keep my left-wing credentials before the List intact) I wanted to say-- That post about my agreeing with Michael Neff WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IRONIC. Yes, I hate US imperialism, am one of those old fogeys who believes its existence is as real as rocks, and I wanted to make that conviction crystal clear, since irony, apparently, is failing me, along with other things in my body these days. And I wish Web del Sol and its editors the best of luck as they continue to spread the gospel of neo-liberal innocence and beneficence far and wide. May the sun never set on the empire of American poetry. Kent ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:49:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Vispo Audio: Stephen Reid and Jack-Rabbit Parole / Andrews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: "Jim Andrews" Date: 9/22/99 9:40 AM -0700 Vispo Audio: http://www.vispo.com/audio New at Vispo Audio are four half-hour radio shows I produced on Stephen Reid, novelist and bank robber. Stephen's the author of Jack-Rabbit Parole (Seal Books, Canada). I produced these radio shows in 1988 when Stephen had been out of jail for about a year; he and Susan Musgrave (Victoria BC poet and novelist) had married, they were raising a daughter (now they have two), and things were going very well for Stephen. His writing was going well, he had a contract from McLelland and Stewart for his next novels, and there were plans for a movie of his book. Not so well these days: he pulled another robbery (August 99) and is back in prison awaiting trial. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:50:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: New Rain Taxi Features Auster, Dao, Granary Books, Scalapino / Sullivan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: "Gary Sullivan" Date: 9/23/99 12:42 PM -0400 R A I N T A X I Vol. 4, No. 3 Interviews with: Paul Auster (Eric Lorberer& Xandra Coe), Bei Dao (Dan Featherston) Features: Granary Books (Chris Fischbach), Leslie Scalapino (Jen Hofer) Reviews of new books by: Samuel R. Delany, Johanna Drucker, J.M. Coetzee, James Tate, Barry Yourgrau, Wang Ping, Martine Bellen, Gary Snynder, Lucia Berlin, Trina Robbins, Elias Canetti, Denise Duhamel, Christophe Bataille, Serge Gainsbourg & more than 30 others ... Also includes the next episode of "The New Life" serialized cartoon and a new feature, "Critical Issues": Erik Belgum and Gary Sullivan discuss "cover curl" and "New Directions paperbacks ... did Laughlin *intentionally* design the covers to look like they've been subjected to years of cigarette smoke?" RAIN TAXI needs your support to continue ... please consider subscribing (very cheap): 1 year (4 issues): $10 ($16 for international subscriptions) Rain Taxi Eric Lorberer, Editor P.O. Box 3840 Minneapolis, MN 55403 http://www.raintaxi.com raintaxi@bitstream.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:51:48 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jay Sanders Subject: 2 queries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Two unrelated queries: 1. As I was reading the material promoting the new 'Objectivist Nexus' book, it got me thinking whether any critical writing has been done drawing connections between Oppen and Heidegger. Maybe this is a really obvious point (Oppen opens one of his collections with a quote by Heidegger), but I'd be curious to read anything written on the matter. 2. I've become very interested in chance-generated and procedural poetry and have been reading lots of Cage and MacLow. Also, I recently got Joan Retallack's book 'Afterrimages.' I could use some suggestions regarding other poets which might be of interest, and any critical work centered on aleatorical methods-especially related to Retallack and other more contemporary writers. Cage tends to be really explicit about his methods, MacLow relatively so, but I haven't found much on other writers. Again, I hope this isn't redundant as I'm a new subscriber. THANK YOU. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:39:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Mobile Poems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" THE MOBILE PROJECTIONS OF LINGERIE ADS SERIES DAN MACHLIN CAITLIN GRACE MCDONNELL SAM TRUITT will read on Tuesday, September 28th 7pm Near the North West entrance of Madison Square 26th Street & Fifth Avenue Manhattan, N E W Y O R K C I T Y Convenient to the 6/N/R Trains For more information call Molly at 212-988-1197 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:08:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: help / Tanoury MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Please respond backchannel as Mr. Tanoury is not a subscriber to the poetics list. Chris -- From: "Doug Tanoury" Date: 9/23/99 8:36 AM -0400 Dear Poetics, I am seriously seeking Douglas Rothchild. Can someone provide me an email address. I was told that he was working with you. Apparently not or I have the wrong list. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Best Regards, Doug Tanoury ___________________________________________ Funky Dog Publishing at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6915/FunkyDogPublishing.htm Athens Avenue Poetry Circle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6915/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:37:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: changes to list archive interface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those of you who make use of the list archive will notice that I've made a change in its appearance, the result of having been given greater control over the interface. The default view is now by date, arranged from most recent to earliest in a given month. All other options for sorting (by author, by topic, chronologically) are still available, as is the search interface. The Poetics List Archive is available at or via the Electronic Poetry Center at Chris % Christopher W. Alexander % poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:27:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: writing workshops at the Poetry Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Fall Writing Workshops at the Poetry Project are: Experimental Writing guided by Larry Fagin (Tuesday evenings, 7-9 pm; = 10 sessions begin October 19) Language on vacation. Writing and reading sans souci et sans = pantalons, fiendishly winching every last model & maquette out of the = muck=ADexpressionistic, cubistic, futuristic, suprematistic, = dadaistic, gertrudistic, surrealistic, swingmatistic, lettristic, = beatistic, projectivistic, situationistic, newyorkscholastic, = spiceristic, oulipistic, coolidgistic, bernadettistic, languagistic, = etceteristic. Larry Fagin edited Adventures in Poetry and is the author of Dig & = Delve (Granary Books, forthcoming). Poetry Workshop taught by Frank Lima (Friday evenings, 7-9 pm; 10 = sessions begin October 22) In this workshop, participants will be introduced to the Neruda and = O=B9Hara ode, the sestina of John Ashbery, and do assignments, such = as writing a bad poem and failing at the attempt, read poets such as = Anne Sexton, Henri Michaux, Francis Ponge, Kenneth Koch, James = Schuyler, Amiri Baraka, Joe Ceravolo, David Schubert, Cesar Vallejo, = Rene Char, and the African poet Leopold Senghor, to name a few. Frank Lima is a poet and teacher of the culinary arts at the New York = Restaurant School. His books of poetry include Inventory: New and = Selected Poems and I Do Believe I Do Believe I Do Believe = (forthcoming from Hard Press). Poetry Workshop taught by Patricia Spears Jones (Saturday afternoons, = 12-2 pm; 10 sessions begin October 16) In this workshop, participants will work on poems that reflect their = personalities and pursuits with an emphasis on craft and revision. = Poems by a broad range of poets will be used to generate discussion = and serve as models including works from Lynda Hull, Bob Kaufman, = Alice Notley, Cornelius Eady, James Schuyler, Frank O=B9Hara, = Sapphire, William Carlos Williams, Maureen Owen, Jaime Manrique, and = David Trinidad. Participants are asked to submit 7-10 poems by = September 30 to the Poetry Project office for review. Patricia Spears Jones is a poet, playwright, and author of The = Weather That Kills (Coffee House Press) and Mother, a play produced = by Mabou Mines. The workshop fee is $250, which includes tuition for workshops and an = individual membership in The Poetry Project for one year. Work = scholarships are also available. Payment must be received in advance = either by mail or in person at the Poetry Project, St. Mark=B9s = Church, 131 E. 10th Street, New York, NY 10003. Please make checks = out to the Poetry Project. For more information, call 212-674-0910 or = e-mail poproj@artomatic.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:19:59 -0400 Reply-To: levitsk@ibm.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: R Democracy Subject: Great Reading at Bluestockings! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (Please circulate to other lists) ANNOUNCING 2 GENIUSES: Julie Patton and Betsy Andrews reading at BELLADONNA* (°deadly nightshade, a cardiac and respiratory stimulant, having purplish-red flowers and black berries) new poetry ETC. reading series at Bluestockings (women's bookstore, 172 allen st, lower e. side F train to 2nd ave.--- more info: 212-777-6028) Thursday, October 7 9:00 pm tantalizing facts: Julie Patton is a world-wide poet and performer who has performed in venues as diverse as the Festival de Poesie Sonores in Geneva and The Kitchen and Knitting Factory here in New York. She has toured Europe as a librettist/vocalist with composer/instru-mentalist Don Byron, and performed with him at the Texaco Jazz Festival and the JVC Jazz Festival in New York City. Julie's work has been anthologized in Beyond Borders: Three Decades of Innovative Work by Women, Talisman Press (1997), Jazztoldtales:Jazz & Fiction, Letteratura E Jazz, (Bacchilega Editore, Italy, 1997). Her third collection of poetry Typographical Topographies (Tender Buttons) will be out this Spring. Betsy Andrews is the recipient of a 1999 New York Foundation for the Arts fellowship in non-fiction and a 1999 "Loving Lesbians Award in Poetry" from the Astraea Foundation. Her work can be found in numerous journals and magazines including most recently in Skanky Possum, Two Girls Review, Fence, Lungfull! and in Arabic and English in the Yemeni newspaper, Culture. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:01:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Carol L. Hamshaw" Subject: Roy Kiyooka Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Roy Kiyooka Conference October 1 - 2, 1999 Location: Theatre (Room 328), South Building, Emily Carr Institute of Art and Design, 1399 Johnston Street, Granville Island, Vancouver, B.C. V6H 3R9 Roy Kiyooka (1926-1994) was a “multi-disciplinary” artist who at various periods of his life was a painter, sculptor, teacher, poet, musician, film-maker, and photographer (or combination of any of the above). When Kiyooka arrived in Vancouver in 1959 he was already one of Canada’s most respected abstract painters. His modernist stance at the time inspired a generation of Vancouver painters to reach beyond regionalism. In the sixties and seventies Kiyooka began to write and publish poetry and produce photographic works. The best known of these, StoneDGloves (1969-1970), is both a poetic and photographic project. As Kiyooka eventually rejected the modernist (Greenbergian) aesthetic that informed his paintings he increasingly took up performance, photography, film, and music. He saw the position of the artist in opposition to the institutions of art. The shape of Kiyooka’s work is only now being revealed, especially his photographic work. The conference is planned to take the measure of that shape. Location: Theatre (Room 328), South Building, Emily Carr Institute of Art and Design, 1399 Johnston Street, Granville Island, Vancouver, B.C. V6H 3R9 Tickets: $15 Adults; $8 Srs, Students with valid ID. Can be purchased by cash or cheque in advance at the Belkin Art Gallery, the Charles H. Scott Gallery or at the door. Exhibition: October 1-3, 1999 Concourse Gallery, Emily Carr Institute of Art and Design - selected works by and of Roy Kiyooka. For info. contact: Naomi Sawada, Conference Coordinator, Morris and Helen Belkin Art Gallery, 1825 Main Mall, Vancouver, B.C. V6T-1Z2, tel: 604-822-2759, fax: 604-822-6689, nsawada@interchange.ubc.ca Multi-Media Evening Fri. Oct. 1, 1999 7:30 - 10 pm Room 308 (Theatre) Emily Carr Institute of Art & Design This is an evening of poetry, video, film and music in celebration of Kiyooka's work. Presenters from Canada's premier literary and visual arts worlds include: 1. David Bolduc Toronto 2. George Bowering Vancouver 3. Joy Kogawa Toronto 4. Maria Hindmarch Vancouver 5. Carole Itter Vancouver 6. Daphne Marlatt Victoria 7. Roy Miki Vancouver 8. Michael Ondaatje Toronto 9. Renee Rodin Vancouver 10. Sarah Sheard Toronto 11. Gerry Shikatani Toronto 12. Sharon Thesen Vancouver Video Fumiko Kiyooka Vancouver, Work In Progress Robert Filliou and Roy Kiyooka, Video Breakfasting Together, if you wish…, 1979 Michael de Courcy, Voice/Roy Kiyooka, 1999. (5 min.) Dance Robin Poitras Regina Fumiko Kiyooka Vancouver Music Temba Tana N Vancouver Takeo Yamashiro Vancouver Jim Monroe Richmond Panel Discussions Sat. Oct. 2, 1999 10am - 5:15 pm Room 308 (Theatre) Emily Carr Institute of Art & Design In acknowledgement of Kiyooka's visual arts and literary works, academics, writers, and artists will participate in panel discussions on the following issues: 10am - 12pm Panel 1: The Politics of Cultural Identity Moderator: John O’Brian Bio: John O'Brian teaches modern art history, theory and criticism —with a Canadian bias— at the University of British Columbia. He has published 11 books, most recently Ruthless Hedonism: The American Reception of Matisse (University of Chicago Press, 1999). He wrote first about the work of Roy Kiyooka in the catalogue for The Flat Side of the Landscape, an exhibition he curated for the Mendel Art Gallery in 1989. In 1993 he organized Roy Kiyooka: The Hoarfrost Paintings for the UBC Fine Arts Gallery, and in 1998 he wrote "Politics and Other Mendacities" for Front Magazine. Panelist: Roy Miki, Title: Unravelling Roy Kiyooka: A Re-assessment Amidst Shifting Boundaries Abstract: This paper will address the constituting role of critical frameworks for situating the work of Roy Kiyooka. Speculative in its projections-and necessarily so in the current unravelling of identity formations dependent on the Canadian "nation" as a boundary-it will explore the potential for a shift in the cultural value of Kiyooka's poetics from a marginal to an emergent perspective that opens what he calls "pacific windows." Bio: Roy Miki is a writer, poet, teacher, and editor, whose publications include Justice in Our Time: The Japanese Canadian Redress Settlement (Co-authored with Cassandra Kobayashi) and Random Access File (Red Deer College Press). He edited Pacific Windows: Collected Poems of Roy K. Kiyooka (Talonbooks), which received the 1997 poetry award from the Association for Asian American Studies, and is currently writing a book on his participation in the Japanese Canadian redress movement of the 1980s. A collection of essays, Broken Entries: Race Subjectivity Writing, has recently been published by Mercury Press. Panelists: Susanna Egan and Gabriele Helms Title: The Many Tongues of "Mothertalk": Cross-cultural Collaboration and the Japanese Canadian Experience Abstract: We propose to talk about the nature and effects of collaboration in Roy Kiyooka's Mothertalk. In particular, we will examine the investment of Roy Kiyooka in his mother's story, his involvement of Matsuki Masutani, the necessary intervention of family on Roy's death, and their invitation to Daphne Marlatt to complete the work. Her introduction and NeWest's production strategies determine reception of this text to a significant degree, both declaring the multiple collaborations and tidying up the complex procedure. Bio: Susanna Egan teaches in the English Department at the University of British Columbia. Her work in autobiography studies includes Patterns of Experience in Autobiography (1984), Mirror Talk: Genres of Crisis in Contemporary Autobiography (1999), and numerous articles. Bio: Gabriele Helms is a post doctorol fellow in the English Department at the University of British Columbia. In her current research she explores the connections between generic instability of contemporary Canadian life-writing and reconceptualizations of experience. She has published on auto/biography and contemporary Canadian literature. Her latest collaborative papers have appeared in Painting the Maple: Race, Gender, and the Construction of Canada. Panelist: Henry Tsang Title: Art Calling Fool Scold: Learning to See and Roy Kiyooka Abstract: "Art is more like a quest than it is a vocation." My presentation will focus on Roy Kiyooka as teacher, mentor, soothsayer. Excerpts from "Hieronymus Bosch's Heretical April Fool Diverti-mementos & Other Protestations" will be examined as well as photographic works that reflect his relationship with art, the art game, being an artist, being Japanese, and cultural identification. Bio: Henry Tsang is a visual artist and independent curator based in Vancouver. His artwork has been exhibited across Canada and abroad, and is concerned with cultural identity and intercultural communication, exploring the interaction between different cultures resulting from contact, influence, negotiation, and contestation. Tsang's curatorial projects include Self Not Whole: Cultural Identity and Chinese-Canadian Artists in Vancouver, at the Chinese Cultural Centre in Vancouver in 1991; Racy Sexy, an intercultural multidisciplinary project presenting 33 artists in 9 community and cultural centres around Greater Vancouver in 1993; and City at the End of Time: Hong Kong 1997, a series of art exhibitions, poetry readings and public lectures, in 1997. 12-1:30 pm Lunch 1:30-4:15 pm Panel 2: Photography and Poetics Moderator: Smaro Kamboureli, University of Victoria Bio: Smaro Kamboureli teaches Canadian literature at the University of Victoria. Her recent publications include her anthology, Making a Difference: Canadian Multicultural Literature and her critical study, Scandalous Bodies: Diasporic Literature in English Canada. She is also the editor of the NeWest Press "Writer as Critic" series. Panelist: Lora Senechal Carney Title: Through gold windows of the sun: Kiyooka and Japanese artist-photographers Abstract: In his 1994 Nobel Prize lecture, Kenzaburo Oe said that contemporary Japan is split between "two opposite poles of ambiguity." That split is "imprinted like a deep scar" on him and his writing. In fact, much recent art from Japan is imprinted with this divide between its supermodern/Western aspect and its traditional Asian culture. The poles in Roy Kiyooka's work may be differently placed and may have shifted during his lifetime, but because of them he has some things in common with recent Japanese artist-photographers, especially those of his generation. This is a brief investigation of those things. Bio: Lora Senechal Carney is an art historian who teaches in the Visual and Performing Arts at the University of Toronto at Scarborough. She writes about modern and contemporary Canadian and U.S. artists. Panelist: Martha Hanna Title: Four Photographic Works: the eye in the landscape, Van Gogh and the Bird of Paradise, 13 Cameras/Vancouver, and Pacific Windows Abstract: The four works made between 1970 and 1990 will be considered for what they reveal about Roy Kiyooka's use of photography, his collaborative impulse, and his personal vision. Bio: Martha Hanna is the author of many exhibitions and publications on contemporary Canadian photography, among them: Words and Images (1980); Evergon (1971-1987); Banff Souvenir (1992); Suzy Lake: Point of Reference (1993); and Eldon Garnet: The Fallen Body (1998). She has been Director of the Canadian Museum of Contemporary Photography, an affiliate of the National Gallery of Canada, since 1994. Panelist: Sheryl Conkelton Title: "… The sad and glad tidings of the floating world…" Abstract: Roy Kiyooka's abrupt turning away from painting toward poetry and photography was marked, to use John O'Brian's works, by "the urgency of testimony and witnessing." Kiyooka's works resonate as narrative pieces of ordinary life but retain a modernist's sense of rupture and construction as well as a sense of revisionist mission. This brief consideration of the serial photographic essays will focus on Kiyooka's construction of these biographical and diaristic works and his conception and use of different types of artistic order. Bio: Sheryl Conkelton is the Senior Curator at the Henry Art Gallery, University of Washington, Seattle, and has been as associate curator at the Museum of Modern Art, New York and the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. Among her publications are monographs on Annette Messager, Catherine Wagner, Aaron Siskind and Frederick Sommer, as well as an upcoming volume on Uta Barth. Panelist: Scott Toguri McFarlane Title: Un-ravelling the Secret Glove of the Archive Abstract: Kiyooka’s StoneDGloves is comprised of poetry and photographs of gloves cast away by workmen who were building the Canadian Pavilion at Expo ’70 in Osaka. I discuss the work’s “un-ravelling” of these archival projects: Expo, whose pavilions represent the archaic belonging necessary to nationalism but dubious for a Japanese Canadian representing Canada in Japan; Kiyooka’s personal history, a genealogical project very familiar with the labour buried within the discourse of both the Japanese and Canadian nation; and that strange photographic collection of gloves whose hollow forms point to a labour not there. Amidst the dirt and detritus of Expo’s foundation, StoneDGloves tumble and cup a stage of the world and the words of the poems. Bio: Scott Toguri McFarlane is a writer and editor living in Montreal. He is the co-founder of the Pomelo Project, a production house for the arts which organized City at the End of Time: Hong Kong 1997, a series of art exhibitions, poetry readings, public talks and publications engaging with Hong Kong culture. He was one of the organizers for “Writing thru ‘Race,’” a national conference for First Nations writers and writers of colour. He is completing his PhD in the English Department at Simon Fraser University. Video Premiere: Michael de Courcy Title: Voice / Roy Kiyooka, 1999. (40 min.) Bio: Michael de Courcy is a photographer and artist. He has exhibited throughout Canada and the U.S. and has been active in the Vancouver art scenesince "Intermedia". 4:15 - 5:15pm Round Table Moderator: Roy Miki (bio above) Participant: John O'Brian (bio above) Participant: Sharla Sava Bio: Sharla Sava is a writer and curator whose work deals with the history of performance and media art in Canada and abroad. She is currently preparing for an exhibition of Ray Johnson's work for the Belkin Gallery. In 1996 she curated an exhibition of the videotapes of the French Fluxus artist Robert Filliou. Sava is a doctoral candidate in the School of Communications at Simon Fraser University. Participant: Scott Watson Bio: Scott Watson is a writer, curator and teacher of Canadian and international contemporary art. He has published extensively including a book about the late Jack Shadbolt (Douglas & McIntyre, 1990) and most recently, a monograph on Stan Douglas (Phaidon Books, 1998). He is the Director/Curator at the Morris and Helen Belkin Art Gallery and an Associate Professor in the Fine Arts Department at the University of British Columbia. Acknowledgements: The conference is organized by the Morris and Helen Belkin Art Gallery, the Vancouver Art Forum Society and the Charles H. Scott Gallery. The project is made possible by the support from the Canada Council for the Arts; the Canadian Studies Program at the University of British Columbia; Emily Carr Institute of Art and Design; the Joan Carlisle-Irving Lectures Fund, Dept. of Fine Arts, University of British Columbia; Claudia Beck and Andrew Gruft; Joe Friday, Dale R. Percy; Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt, a national law firm with offices in Calgary, Ottawa, Toronto; Aragon Development; Project A and the Western Front. Conference Committee: Catriona Jeffries, Catriona Jeffries Gallery Daphne Marlatt, Victoria, BC John O’Brian, Vancouver Art Forum Society Michael Ondaatje, Toronto, Ont. Cate Rimmer, Charles H. Scott Gallery Naomi Sawada, Morris and Helen Belkin Art Gallery Christine Wallace, Morris and Helen Belkin Art Gallery Scott Watson, Morris and Helen Belkin Art Gallery Mary Williams, Morris and Helen Belkin Art Gallery -- Carol L. Hamshaw Administrator Edgewise ElectroLit Centre http://www.edgewisecafe.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:22:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tosh Subject: Rain Taxi's review for Gainsbourg's Evguenie Sokolov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46riday, September 24, 1999 Evgu=E9nie Sokolov by Serge Gainsbourg ISBN: 0-9662346-1-8 $17 Literally artsy-fartsy, Evgu=E9nie Sokolov is a satirical, allegorical, rise-and-fall story about a dyspeptic, marginal young man who becomes a famous painter via his lusty flatulence. This pseudo-autobiography is at once an ode to anality and a sly rendering of happenstance in the creative process. It's also a play on Serge Gainsbourg's life history: in the '60's and '70's, he deliberately flouted Europe's conventions and - despite or because of his overindulgent rebel pose - farted his way to the top of the charts as one of France's most controversial and admired pop stars. As the introduction conveys, he performed his own songs in a raspy, strung-out voice and in duets with the likes of Brigitte Bardot. In the most infamous of these, the 1967 "je t'aime - moi non plus (I Love You - Me Neither)," he croons "je vais et je viens entre tes reins" ("I go and I come between your kidneys"). Gainsbourg's mock/real lyricism resonates throughout the novel. In passages reminiscent of Proust's Madeleine riffs, Sokolov rhapsodizes on his inspired, foul emanations: "I would escape on my own to Nordic sand dunes and (stand) there, shivering in the twilight gusts ... the wind would carry off my exhalations and disperse the diabolical... wisps in fascinating, enchanted swirls." For Sokolov, the fart serves as both revenge and display, the source of the narrator;s humiliation as well as his brilliance. "I would get my own back at the swimming bath by going close to [my teachers] and releasing iridescent bubbles, which rose gurgling to the surface and burst into the clean air as subversive farts." This tale is clever and moving. The narrator contradicts himself without apology, at times veering from first into third-person point of view, referring to himself by name as though he were in the position of his buyers of critics. Gainsbourg's snipes at art world notoriety produce a Seinfeldian, box-within-a-box counter-reality. His novel is intellectually provocative, but also deeply and sensually - aromatically - felt. Perry Friedman, Rain Taxi (Fall 1999) Serge Gainsbourg's 'Evgu=E9nie Sokolov' (TamTam Books) is available through Small Press Distributions, AK, Ingram Book Company, bookstores, and various online bookstores. ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books ------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:09:48 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Owen Hill Subject: Moe's Events MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List Moe's Books (my employer) is hosting two events next month: A book party for Now It's Jazz: Writings on Kerouac & The Sounds by Clark Coolidge (Living Batch Press). Sunday, October 10th. A doubleheader book party for two books from Skanky Possum Press: Dark, by Hoa Nguyen and Lucky Pup, by Leslie Davis. Sunday, October 17th. Both events are from 3-5pm. Moe's Books, 2476 Telegraph Ave. Berkeley (510) 849-2087. Note: Clark lost his address book, so his mailing list is rather small. I'm sure that there are interested people that won't be getting invitations. Please pass the word! Thanks Owen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:28:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: What is to Be Done? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - What is to Be Done? Report: I'm alive and well in Traveller's Linux; I have left Vienna. Report: I'm in on Vienna Traveller's Linux. I am told I am paranoid. Communique: My name is Vladimir Lenin. I am in Edit, Austria. Communique: Hello out there. I am cut off. Communique: The best Jews, those who are celebrated in world history, and have given the world foremost leaders of democracy and socialism, have never clamoured against assimilation. Report: I'm alive and well; there are no Jews in Traveller's Linux. Report: The conclusion which follows from this is absolute intcontro- vertible: it has been proved that, far from causing harm to the revo- lutionary proletariat, participation in a bourgeois-democratic parli- ament, even a few weeks before the victory of a Soviet republic and even _after_ such a victory, actually helps that proletariat to _prove_ to the backward masses why such parliaments deserve to be Communique: I am not paranoid; I have been told I am not paranoid. Communique: I am at Row: 00017 and Column: 00048. Report: This is coming to you from Traveller's Linux. Communique to A. V. Lunacharsky: Aren't you ashsmed to vote for pub- lication of Mayakovasky's _150 Millions_ in five thousand copies? Rubbish, stupidity, double-dyed stupidity and pretentiousness. In my opinion we should print only one out of ten such things, and _not more than fifteen hundred copies,_ for libraries and odd people. And flog Lunarcharsky for futurism. Report: Hello? Radio Traveller's Linux here. I AM NOT PARANOID! Communique: What column is this? Column 00045. Communique: I am seventy-eight years old. Communique: Youth's altered attitude to questions of sex is of course 'fundamental' and based on theory. Many people call it revo- lutionary' and 'communist.' They sincerely believe that this is so. I am an old man and I do not like it. I may be a morose ascetic, but quite often this so-called 'new sex life' of young people -- and fre- quently of the adults too -- seems to me purely bourgeois and simply an extension of the good old bourgeois brothel. All this has nothing in common with free love as we Communists understand it. Report: I am certainly not in favor of this or that! Report: I do not smoke a bourgeois so-called cigarette! Communique: The whole of society will have become a single office and a single factory, with equality of labor and pay. Communique: The second condition is agreement between the proletari- at, which is exercising its dictatorship, that is, holds state power, and the majority of the peasant population. Report: I do not agree with those of the dictatorship who accuse me of paranoia, although I have been committed of paranoia by the so- called 'state authorities.' I do not smoke a cigarette, a victim of the bourgeois mind! Communique: I am in Traveller's Linux! I am in the root directory! No one else is here beside me! No one else is toppling this machine constructed of the finest materials! I am using this machine! This will have been Column 15! This will have been Row 50! I am in Aus- tria, but I am not in Vienna! I have never been in Vienna! This is a hope of bourgeois freedom! Report: The government of the proletarian dictatorship -- jointly with the Communist Party and the trade unions of course -- makes ev- ery effort to overcome the backward views of men and women and thus uproot the old, non-commmunist psychology. It goes without saying that men and women are absolutely equal before the law. Communique: My name is Vladimir Lenin. You had the rudness to call my wife on the telephone and berate her. Report: It sounds just as though he were chewing rags in his sleep! Report: One cannot hide the fact that dictatorship presupposes and implies a "condition," one so disagreeable to renegades, of _revolu- tionary violence_ of one class against another. Report: We must see to it that every factory and every electric pow- er station becomes a centre of enlightenment; if Russia is covered with a dense network of electric power stations and powerful techni- cal installations, our communist economic development will become a model for a future socialist Europe and Asia. Communique: I am on previous Row 69 of this Report and Communique. Communique: I am not paranoid -- only to approach the government of the revolutionary proletarian dictatorship, is it not within the purview of any sane man to wonder at the absence of individuals within this dense network, given the absence, in other words, of any other within Traveller's Linux? This is the Communique of Vladimir Lenin, having been declared paranoid by the state. Toe. Report: This ends the Communique of Vladimir Lenin, having been de- clared paranoid by the state. Toe. Communique: I have been declared paranoid by the state. I am not de- clared paranoid by the state. Toe. [written by Vladimir Lenin in Traveller's Linux, a one-floppy version of the Linux operating system, taken verbatim from the records.] _____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:21:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: new from housepress: Lawrence Upton's "Sta!" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit housepress is pleased to announce it latest chapbook of visual poetry; Lawrence Upton's "Sta!" "For many years, Lawrence Upton has been consistently inventive and quite staggeringly prolific. Particularly, perhaps, he has never got trapped in ideological zeal, that is, in frumpish notions of what can and can't be done in cutting edge poetry" - Gilbert Adair. printed and handbound (stab stitch style with card covers) in an edition of 40 copies - the entire run of "Sta!" has sold out - there remain a very few archive copies that are currently available for $5 ea. (including shipping and handling) contact derek beaulieu @ housepress for more information & ordering information. housepress housepre@telusplanet.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:51:01 -0400 Reply-To: levitsk@ibm.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: R Democracy Subject: Re: If it's safe, it doesn't matter how much we spray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit levitsk@ibm.net wrote: For the surviving mosquitos 9/24/99 Like in the movies Or an underworld She rides her red Mercedes Into the restaurant and I Squat in front of the Mayor. Who could blame me? He snuck up from behind. Had Seemed okay with nudity so Long as my parents were involved In the profanity. I was just checking The progress of My period. He shook a bon- ey finger, much like the witch. Yes, he's in the house My eyes burn, straining At the crowd, the park, Kitchen, bed--watching out for his thin nose, long chin. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:46:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Carol L. Hamshaw" Subject: [Fwd: The Capilano Review Contest] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol Hamshaw wrote: > from The Capilano Review > (feel free to pass along) > > COVER VERSIONS > TCR's Covers Contest > > Do a cover of a cover: Write 1 piece of prose or a selection of poems (up > to 8 pages) in response to a cover image of your choosing from The Capilano > Review's 27 year history. To view covers, visit your local library or see > a selection on our website at www.capcollege.bc.ca/dept/TCR, after October > 1, 1999. > > 2 Categories: Prose and Poetry > First prize $1,000 and publication in TCR > (1 prize for each category) > 2 Runners-up will receive a critique of their work from film-maker, poet > and writer, Colin Browne (each category) > > Entry fee: $25, includes a one year subscription to TCR, for first entry. > $5 for additional entries. > > DEADLINE: MARCH 31, 2000 > > Send submissions with SASE with appropriate postage for return of work, and > a cover letter stating the Issue # of your cover to: > > The Capilano Review > 2055 Purcell Way > North Vancouver, BC V7J 3H5 > > Send a #10 SASE for complete rules and guidelines, plus a list of > libraries and bookstores where TCR is available, to the above address. > > The Capilano Review reserves the right > to not award an entry or to not publish a winning entry. > > For more information, please call 604-984-1712 or email tcr@capcollege.bc.ca > > Carol L. Hamshaw > Managing Editor > The Capilano Review > 604-984-1712 > > http://www.capcollege.bc.ca/dept/TCR > > For submission guidelines, please see > > http://www.capcollege.bc.ca/dept/TCR/submit.html -- Carol L. Hamshaw Administrator Edgewise ElectroLit Centre http://www.edgewisecafe.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:15:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: deaths in storms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ''' deaths in storms i am afraid of death; it haunts me, has haunted me for years; i'm not af- raid of taking my own life, not at all--but of death this great fear, this fear so great i cannot write coherently about it, cannot add polish to the style; it takes me over in the form of nightmares; i have only two decades left to live, watching my mind deteriorate; i am hysterically fearful of being left behind; i want to see more of the world--it's not the pain but the absence, knowing the last gesture; this isn't an emotion but a synd- rome as death watches me; i've been miserably unhappy all my life as a re- sult; i'm a coward, i can't think straight; i'm violently afraid of viol- ence, of the pain of violence; i don't know a moment's peace; it's a struggle to breathe in the morning; i get repeated headaches; i feel unut- terable loss constantly; my life is filled with regrets as far back as i can remember; i'm suspicious of momentary happiness; i see nothing but the gateway to annihilation; my writing is underpinned by decay and disappear- ance; i rage against acquiescence; i have no belief in reincarnation or afterlife; absence characterizes existence, stains it; i try through sexu- al abjection to forget myself, bury myself first; i have no stake in my death--no one does; it is a great vacuum tearing me apart; it grabs my mind, my brain, creates fevers; it controls my words as i write them, as if there were bones clawing and severing the fingers of my hands; dreams carry on where daylight leaves off; daylight reconfirms the worst of the horrors; this is my ordinary existence; there is no answer to anything but the simplest of questions--daily, i face my own failure in this regard-- knowing that i am an imposter, waiting to be found out; i see others more or less calm, there's no calm for me; my dreams have severed limbs, storms and tornados, buildings toppled, buses veering off wet cliffs down to the shore rocks below--drowning, i try to claw my way out, the water's too great, i can't breathe, the inconsolable wetness of lungs, everything com- ing to an end, we're upside-down; i'm a coward, i've always been a coward; i'm afraid of the tiniest thing, storms get to me; i pretend to be brave, that's all, it's easy in safe situations; the storm--not the storm really, the careening bus, it's the bus that brings it to the surface as it crash- es down, coming to pieces on the rocks, ending in deep water, above the roof, it's all turned awry, you can't tell left from right, up from down, i'm drowning again, it's all this repetition; i'm feverish, can hardly see the world, whatever's churning __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:07:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: New @ Duration Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Duration Press is pleased to announce new additions to our online out of print book archive. _to speak while dreaming_, by Eléni Sikélianòs _Poetics of the Exclamation Point_, by Eléni Sikélianòs _The Fifth Season_, by Pierre Joris _Wells_, by Rachel Blau DuPlessis Future books to appear will be: _It's Alive She Says_, by Cole Swensen _New Math_, by Cole Swensen _Mace Hill Remap_, by Norma Cole Also online is a (very) tentative table of contents for a section of our new Ethnopoetics Archive focusing on documents selected from the 10 year run of _Alcheringa_, eds. Jerome Rothenberg & Dennis Tedlock. http://www.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:32:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Not poetry In-Reply-To: <37E8D6C4.FEC332FF@webdelsol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII An announcement: Book events for my new novel, A BOY IN WINTER, will take place at the following venues: Wed, Sept 29, 7:30 pm Book Passage, Corte Madera CA Tuesday, October 5, 7:30 pm Black Oak Books, Berkeley CA Wednesday, October 6, 7pm, Booksmith, SF CA Maxine Chernoff ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:44:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: Black tie In-Reply-To: <1784564075.938087434@psprk143-06.pubsites.buffalo.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In town or in the mood.... It's an E X P L O S I V E M A G A Z I N E benefit event! Starring: K E N N E T H K O C H E L E N I S I K E L I A N O S M I C H A E L C O F F E Y & T I M G R I F F I N W E D N E S D A Y, S E P T E M B E R 2 9 , 8:00 PM 311 Church Street, #4 New York, NY (1.5 blocks So. of Canal) 1/9, A/C/E, 4/5/6 Call (718) 243-1667 with queries Donations admired ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:44:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Zauhar Subject: Re: Verbal Eyes at The Farm Comments: To: david bromige In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, david bromige wrote: > The roster of poets reading also establishes that I am not a Language Poet, > since my name is the only one that does not end in 'n'. Harryman, Hejinian, > Watten, Robinson and your good self(on _Sep_ 20, not June) out-alphabet me. > My performance (I suppose I thought we were supposed to perform, rather > than give a 'straightforward reading') consisted of a straightforward > beginning increasingly interrupted by my own tape-recorded voice listing a > string of urban plaints.(So, similar to your rdg, in that it was > interrupted by honkings). All I recall of its reception is that Victoria > Rathbu N (obviously an embryo LangPo person) was reduced to tears. > snip > By way of P.S., the N-ending as requirement for echte LangPoets--a sort of > shibboleth in type--has been commented on before in these 'pages'. The > apparent anomaly of Bruce Andrews is obviously due to a forbear leaving off > the 'son' suffix of BA's Scandinavian ancestors. Thus we learn that neither > Jack Spicer, nor Kathleen Fraser, nor Bob Grenier, nor Clark Coolidge, nor > Michael Palmer, nor Tom Mandel, nor Erica Hunt, nor David Bromige, could be > anything but urLP; their fate was sealed by The Alphabet. Ted Berrigan, > however, might be the second LangPoet, if George Oppen is the first. (Not > Robt Duncan; his name should have stayed Robt Symmes). And hadn't you > always suspected that Rae Armantrout's LangPo status derived from her > friendships rather than her (stunning, lyrical, 'objectivist') poems? > > David > This is eerie, I just sent something to poetryetc about The Exquisite Corpse, and I seem to remember reading in their pages this theory about the seemingly obligatory "n" ending to Langpoet's names. Was that you who wrote that for the Corpse? And would that make John Milton and Walt Whitman precursors to L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E? David Zauhar University of Illinois at Chicago "i have a city to cover with lines" --d.a. levy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:28:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS: trAce Conference, July 2000, UK. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII CALL FOR PAPERS Incubation: A trAce International Conference about Writing and the Internet 10-12 July 2000 The Nottingham Trent University, Nottingham, UK http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/ Keynote Speakers: Teri Hoskin, Geoff Ryman & Gregory Ulmer The trAce Online Writing Community connects more than a thousand writers and readers in over 60 countries. Together we have built a vibrant and energetic online culture where text is always the focus. This conference offers the chance to meet in a physical space to talk about the nature of writing and reading on the internet today. We invite papers which debate, discuss or demonstrate any of the following: TEXT : NARRATIVE : INVENTION The web is home to a huge variety of narrative forms: fictions using a traditional narrative structure within the framework of hypertext; works operating across literary genres - ficto-criticisms which consider the medium directly; poetic writings that seek to dishevel the structure of language; pidgin languages and texts; the blurring of image/word/sound so that the very design itself becomes the writing; and the liberation from the alphabet. But what does all this mean to the traditional print author or reader? And how do both the mode of distribution and the corporate-owned formats affect content and style? This theme examines the discovery and invention of new literary forms and theories, and the re-emergence, online, of textual experimentation predating the internet. It seeks to contextualise online literary production and features some of the breakthrough online projects that are helping to shape the early history of writing online. We invite authors, readers and critics to explore their engagement with the internet and to look at the ways in which text has evolved online. TEXT : COMMUNITY : CREATIVITY The internet has offered us the chance to connect with people around the world in ways we could never have imagined. What effect is this having on creativity and artistic collaboration, including the notion of lone author as individual genius? Society takes on a different complexity when the identities of its members may be multiple, collective, or fragmented. How do we build and administer our online communities? And what happens when so many nationalities, cultures and languages intersect? This is a good moment to consider what it is to be human and how we are engaging with technology in ways we have never done before. The flux of the net challenges our assumptions about identity, self, nature, language, nation, time and space and disrupts the ways in which we construct meaning. How are writers responding to new experiences of online community, creativity, spirituality, and the body? TEXT : PUBLISHING : OWNERSHIP Publishers just don't seem to know what to do with hypertext. Contemporary notions of authorship and ownership are being reconfigured by the advent of new technologies like the Internet. How are both mainstream and radical publishing responding to notions of copyright, public domain, and copyleftism? And where do new forms of work fit in? Is the book really dead? Will networking and collaborative authoring transform the literary into something else? Is it true that online writing communities and web.narrative projects are being embraced by media and art institutions but ignored by print publishers? There are many burning practical questions to be addressed. Are online works Read-Only consumer products? How does the public own/appropriate an online work? How would you present a web narrative project without a computer? Which form would you use? And how do you sell your online work? ABSTRACTS SHOULD BE 300 WORDS MAXIMUM. DEADLINE: DECEMBER 1ST 1999 HOW TO SUBMIT YOUR PAPER Papers may be submitted via a web-form http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/ or via post, fax or email to: INCUBATION, trAce, Nottingham Trent University, Clifton Lane, Nottingham NG11 8NS UK tel: +44 (0) 115 9486360 fax: +44 (0) 115 9486364 email: trace@ntu.ac.uk url: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk The above address is also the contact point for general enquiries about The trAce Online Writing Community. If you would like to be kept informed about the Incubation conference please contact: Rose Athow, NCL Admin Centre, The Nottingham Trent University, Burton Street, Nottingham NG1 4BU. Tel +44 (0) 115 948 2249 (direct line) Fax +44 (0) 115 948 6536 email: ncladmin@ntu.ac.uk trAce Online Writing Community Nottingham Trent University Clifton Lane Nottingham NG11 8NS ENGLAND Tel: ++44 (0)115 9486360 (direct line) Fax: ++44 (0)115 9486364 http://trace.ntu.ac.uk trace@ntu.ac.uk ___________________________________ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please email trace@ntu.ac.uk with 'unsubscribe' as the subject line. ____________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:35:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: San Francisco Book Festival In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990923100901.0138a3a0@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The booth's been changed to 182. At 10:09 AM 9/23/99 -0700, you wrote: >Advance notice (I'll post again clloser to the event): > >I'll be sitting behind the table at booth 42 at the San Francisco Book >Festival, 10am to 6pm at Fort Mason on October 16th and 17th. Charles >Alexander will be sitting next to me--Chax Press and Junction Press are >sharing the booth. I look forward to meeting list members there. Joyce >Jenkins has arranged readings--I'll post when I get a list. > >Will any others out there be exhibiting? > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:48:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: 2 queries In-Reply-To: <19990923185149.83937.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jay, 1) Take a look at Rob Halpern's essay on Oppen's reading of Heidegger in Tripwire #3 [I believe one or both of the editors subscribe to the list. If not, I can track down ordering info for you]. 2) Retallack's more recent "How To Do Things With Words" is also interesting in the connection you mention. For other leads, I'd take a look at responses to Jena Osman's query about "found text" poems, posted to this list a month or two (?) back. Also, a quick list of chance &/or procedurally-composed work might include Jerome Rothenberg's _Gematria_, anything branching out from the recently-published Oulipo Compendium, various works by Tina Darragh, some of Ron Silliman's work (thinking especially of _ketjak_, _Tjanting_, and _Lit_), many pieces from Bernadette Mayer. _0 to 9_, if you can find it, is well worth a look - as is her list of experiments, which is much easier to track down - reprinted in _In the American Tree_, I believe. There's also a later version, with additions by Charles Bernstein and others, up at the EPC: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/bernstein/experiments.html Obviously, a partial list, but the best I can muster from work. If you're still looking after others have posted, feel free to backchannel me and I'll do a little more digging at home. Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jay Sanders Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 11:52 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: 2 queries Two unrelated queries: 1. As I was reading the material promoting the new 'Objectivist Nexus' book, it got me thinking whether any critical writing has been done drawing connections between Oppen and Heidegger. Maybe this is a really obvious point (Oppen opens one of his collections with a quote by Heidegger), but I'd be curious to read anything written on the matter. 2. I've become very interested in chance-generated and procedural poetry and have been reading lots of Cage and MacLow. Also, I recently got Joan Retallack's book 'Afterrimages.' I could use some suggestions regarding other poets which might be of interest, and any critical work centered on aleatorical methods-especially related to Retallack and other more contemporary writers. Cage tends to be really explicit about his methods, MacLow relatively so, but I haven't found much on other writers. Again, I hope this isn't redundant as I'm a new subscriber. THANK YOU. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:26:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Irony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } while it is indispensable at times perhaps it's over-indulged on paper in print etc. some of the things said here lose what force they might have simply as some % of the readership isnt sure what theyre saying and another bunch reads them dead wrong i find that live, in person, irony often hits like a brick but on paper and especially when it seems little more than a habit (as "poetry to be worthwhile must be ironic" --- this is a line a friend of mine heard at a reading or someplace and reported to me) and as such seems to need a little more scrutiny ... ? just a thought )L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:58:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: A crown of iron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KENT JOHNSON wrote: > In response to a post I called "The sound of drums," Michael Neff > has written to tell me of his surprise at my "quick about face." I > believe my implied other face must be pinned to a post I put up a > few days ago, one that contained a reference to David Hume and > ended with a statement about my complete agreement with > Michael's position on East Timor. Since the intended tone of that > first rebuttal did not register with him, I am thinking that others on > the List may have taken it wrongly too. So, for what it's worth (and > to keep my left-wing credentials before the List intact) I wanted to > say-- That post about my agreeing with Michael Neff WAS > SUPPOSED TO BE IRONIC. > > Yes, I hate US imperialism, am one of those old fogeys who > believes its existence is as real as rocks, and I wanted to make > that conviction crystal clear, since irony, apparently, is failing me, > along with other things in my body these days. And I wish Web del > Sol and its editors the best of luck as they continue to spread the > gospel of neo-liberal innocence and beneficence far and wide. May > the sun never set on the empire of American poetry. > > Kent You're posturing Kent, and thus, bereft of reason and memory, two critical elements for clear headed thought. You have my sympathy, old dear. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:18:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: AMERICAN FARMERS VISIT A RUSSIAN COLLECTIVE FARM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" AMERICAN FARMERS VISIT A RUSSIAN COLLECTIVE FARM oh how madly how verdantly flamboyant yanks came hardening with bottles of rum and how we all rolled to nowhere for hours as one ball fraternizing through rough conversation as cultural exchange and then flam in comes the moment of sparse generosity unleashed tangentially upon a garden of sham sheep as they clamber out of their own silhouettes s’as to raise another through a silk in the sky to the human mowers and this now a different place with a different people and to gain velocity here is not again problematic because the sheep are as against the section cars and the section cares are as against the cattle as one to three cool bovine quadrupeds and then hip zip take me out of here to the nearest brickhouse so I can hiccup and take me under the water for a few minutes but make sure I can fill my lungs with air or else you’ll drown me ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:41:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: INSECTS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" INSECTS Moonmoth and grasshopper that flee our page... Hart Crane as electric cicadas hidden in the leaves twer twer twer produce magnificent trilling the unblotched river flows god knows where to be or not to does not even arise on the curbs mightily little is done to investigate the linden litters of recollection swoosh swoosh swoosh but nothing else becomes bats brother hang me your pattern namer upon the barque lend two swell wet towels of sand and lets become indefenestrable in the grass in the leaves ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:43:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: FORGIVING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FORGIVING raw feeling chanceries are becoming like turf of mine and I have them stretched against the telephone wires often wondering & leafing how mortibles are gone and then there is nothing nothing at all but the rouge imperializing to pound or not to pound and suddenly there’s like a snake going down into your borscht and you munch it’s nothing taking it from there then some more arrive with the same surface of the chair and there’s a fire extinguisher that shakes white permafroth all over the tiger lilies and again a lack of recognition is taking a bite out of your operatic biscuit but it lends a hand to the lignum of criticism then there is nothing but lilies in cobalt Nantucket a harvest by the sea a dacha of timorous drops of saltfish on sugar you’re ready to forgive everything ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:53:11 -0500 Reply-To: jlm8047@usl.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerry McGuire Organization: USL Subject: Winners-Deep South Writers Conference Contest Comments: To: Andi Matherne , Clara Connell , Cathy Bishop , Dedria Givens , contemporary poetry list , charles bernstein , Amitava Kumar , Cheryl Torsney , dayne allan sherman , Charles Hunt , beverly vidrine , Allen David Barry , Darrell Curtis , dominique ryon , Dodie R Meeks , Anne Barrows , doris meriwether , Delane Tew , Alan Cockrell <73761.1143@compuserve.com>, David Kuhne , Chuck Thompson , David Duggar , "David J. LeMaster" , Cynthia Harper <5SatLib-SanAntonio@ca5.uscourts.gov>, David Holcomb , Chere' Coen , "Blanche A. Bell" , Brian Andrew Laird , Bev Marshall , Becky Hepinstall , "D.J. Shaw" , Donya Dickerson , Boyd Girouard , Diane M Farrington , Andrew Smiley , christine watt , "DWooley111@aol.com" , Camille Goodison , Clayton Delery , DONALD JACOBSON , Deborah L Siegel , Brenda Cary , Alan Davis , deborah novak , Brian O'Donnell , Delores Merrill , Ann Jennings , angie davidson , Cedelas Hall , Bill Lavender , april greer , Deborah Phelps , Brent Royster , Dottie Vaughn , Camille Martin , gail tayko , John Ferstel , Gretchen King , elysabeth young , Fox Willard , John Fiero , Jeff Goldstein , Jonathan Barron , janet bowdan , George Elliott Clarke , Joel Kuszai , Jeff Lodge , Jarita Davis <105366.2756@compuserve.com>, jean-marc , john august wood , geetha ramanathan , Hank Lazer , Eliza Miller , eric mcneil , Glynnauth , Joy Graham , "Jeanine B. Cook" , "Edelma D. Huntley" , "Emily W. McAllister" , Judith Meriwether , Julie Hebert , Jerry Goad , "Joyce S. Brown" , "John P. Doucet" , joe andriano , "jberry@dps.state.la.us" , judith mcneely , Janet McCann , Geri Taran , "JGray46412@aol.com" , jeff dear , "harry d. stewart" , Joe Carlisle , Jim White , "J. Paulette Forshey" , jack bedell , Luis Urrea , Karen Ford , LWilson213 , Kevin Murphy , MANNY SELVIN , Kathy Ptacek , kevin johnson , marcia gaudet , Marie Plasse , Mark Nowak , Mary Cappello , Mary Cotton , Megan Farrell , Michael and Charisse Floyd , Michael Mandel , miki nilan , molly cole , murray schwartz , Nancy Richard , Mary Hillier Sewell , louisiana , Libby Nehrbass , mary tutwiler , Marcella Durand , L V Sadler , Larry Anderson , Norman German , Karleen Wooley , michael hansen , "M. Davis" , Marvin Douglass , "lynn a. powers" , mike schultz , Karen Meinardus , Nancy Dawn Van Beest , Michelle Dufour , McAdoo Greer , M Butz , Louis Gallo , lynne castille , Martha Metrailer , Mary Alice Cook , Linda M Schopper , Mary Kay McAllister , Kevin Murphy , "Lisa R. Davis" , laura taylor , lila walker , MARSHA BRYANT , Maura Gage , Kathy Gruver , Peter Ganick , Richard Caccavale , Robin and Charles Weber , Robley Hood , Rosalind Foley , Sean McFadden , Shawn Moyer , Staci Swedeen , Stanley Blair , Stephen Doiron , Steve Wilson , TABORWARRN , Tim Smith , Timothy Materer , Paige DeShong , Pamela Kirk Prentice , Patty Ryan , paul maltby , rlehan , Steve Barancik , Randy Prunty , Rogan Stearns , "Sean H. O'Leary" , Robert Brophy , Patricia Burchfield , Staci Bleecker , rita hiller , Stacey Bowden , Suzanne Mark , ralph stephens , Tatiana Stoumen , Todd Nettleton , Ruth Rakestraw , Robin Kemp , Patrice Melnick , Sam Broussard , Pat McFerren , Sara Wallace , Sandy Labry , Richard Crews , susan middaugh , Rhonda Blanchard , "Tammy D. Harvey" , Tana Bradley , Walt McDonald , Wendell Mayo , William Ryan , William Sylvester , Zach Smith , William Pitt Root and Pamela Uschuk , Writers' Forum , "Whitten, Phyllis" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CONTEST WINNERS OF THE 1999 DEEP SOUTH WRITERS CONFERENCE Children's Fiction First Prize ($100).....Carol Ann Winn.....Amarillo, TX .............. "Swim Like a Dolphin" CODOFIL Award in French Poetry First Prize ($100).....Albert G. Saada.....Hollywood, FL .............. "Rupture" Honorable Mention.....Ann duMais McCormick.....Grosse Point Farms, MI .............."Un Poeme" CODOFIL Award in French Prose First Prize ($100).....David J. Holcombe.....Alexandria, LA .............. "Les Ames" Honorable Mention.....Joyce Mary Carmouche.....Alexandria, LA .............. "Cette Nuit" Ethel Harvey Award in Nonfiction First Prize ($200).....Jerry Craven.....Amarillo, TX .............. "The Architecture of the Dead" Honorable Mention.....Walt Stromer.....Mt. Vernon, IA .............. "Why Not Dark" Novel First Prize ($300).....Jerry Craven.....Amarillo, TX .............. "Women of Thunder" Second Prize ($200).....M. G. Miller.....Fayetteville, AR .............. "Bayou Jesus" Short Story First Prize ($300).....Joseph M. O'Connell.....Austin, TX .............. "Marina Dreams" Second Prize ($200).....Jonathan Fink.....Syracuse, NY .............. "Half-Light" Third Prize ($100).....Steve Weathers.....Abilene, TX .............. "Come Hell" Honorable Mention.....Dave Kuhne.....Fort Worth, TX .............. "The Road to Roma" Young Adult Fiction First Prize ($200).....Don Dilmore.....Montgomery, TX .............. "Danny's Red Jacket" The James H. Wilson Full-Length Play Awards First Prize ($300).....Sherry Bishop.....New York, NY .............. "Bless Her Heart" Second Prize ($100).....JudyLee Oliva.....Nesconset, NY .............. "On the Showroom Floor" The John Z. Bennett Awards in Poetry First Prize ($300).....Randy Prunty.....Lilburn, GA ............... "the place they were memento" ............... "gene pool now hiring" ............... "shoulders are for holding back" Second Prize ($200).....Jonathan Fink.....Syracuse, NY ............... "On the Scene" ............... "Gravemaking" ............... "Relativity" Third Prize ($100).....Margaret Rabb.....Chapel Hill, NC ............... "The Secret Fascicle" Honorable Mention.....Mary Tutwiler.....New Iberia, LA ............... "In This War" ............... "Neighbors" ............... "White Phosphorous" Honorable Mention.....Susan Thomas.....Marshfield, VT ............... "Annunciation" ............... "Sun Dogs" The Paul T. Nolan One-Act Play Awards First Prize ($200).....William Wellborn.....Lawrenceville, GA ............... "Portrait of a Klansman" Second Prize ($100).....Leigh Hunt.....Gig Harbor, WA ............... "Home Invasion" -- ________________________________________________________ Jerry McGuire Director of Creative Writing English Department Box 44691 University of Southwestern Louisiana Lafayette LA 70504-4691 318-482-5478 ________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:23:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dirk Rowntree Subject: Mayor against Brooklyn Museum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit re: the Mayor's actions against the Brooklyn Museum: Apparently it's very EFFECTIVE and very IMPORTANT to call City Hall and leave your opinion on the Mayor's Action Line. Please pass it on, it only takes a minute. Make sure he knows you'll never vote for him with these kinds of cultural policies! 212-788-3000 Please FORWARD THIS!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:36:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: HIGHWIRE Reading Comments: To: aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@HOTMAIL.COM, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@NETAXS.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@HOTMAIL.COM, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@HOTMAIL.COM, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@HOTMAIL.COM, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable REadings @ _H_I_G_H_WIRE +_++ GA_LL_ER:Y presents: =20 D A V E * S I M P S O N +++ =20 A L L I S O N * C O B B 139 n. 2nd st. @ Highwire Gallery Saturday, Oct. 2, 8pm or thereabouts byobubbly +++ donation requested You will be welcomed with a CORNUCCOPIA of UNCONVENTIONAL word USAGES ************************************************************************= * POETS: DAVE SIMPSON recently received his MFA from New York University's Gradua= te Writing Program, where he studied with Gerald Stern, among other poets. = He is reputed by Dave Baratier to have 'a fine ear.' =20 ALLISON COBB has a new book out on SITUATIONS Press, of which I cannot remember the name. She was part of the 3-poet collective that composed &= published the chain renga entitled _COMMUNAL BEBOP CANTO_. She is co-cur= ator of the DC Arts Center Reading Series. ************************************************************************= **** from "Little Box Book," Allison Cobb I. =20 The little box book likes more liquor - grows back tongues a hydra - children her age blow candles at blackout birthdays II. =20 Strip shops stick like a fungus to rock potreros ("tongue" in the Red idiom) Hello is anyone home III. =20 And the mountains at night grow dark stubble grow into a swallow pretend little box to recall ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= ++ David Simpson Vacation Plans I will return to Paris and stand beside Montmartrre again, admiring its curves as clean as the scissors-work of tailors and its chamise of peach sunlight put on in joy. I will return to drink champagne at midnight and to take the holiness of ch=E9vre in my mouth as I give thanks to the goatherd and the goat for millennia of something I can believe in, something redolent on my fingers in the morning. I will sit at the same table on the Bateau Mouche with George and Dorene, my parents, and the Galaghers singing old favorites while the captain steers our ship up and down the Seine past Notre Dame as if he's trying to help us rub this moment into our memory while the motor purrs and someone stands to make another toast. I was young then, and in a hurry. I still love the jazz of coffee in my blood, the glint of suitcase locks and high-tech cameras, but this time when I stand on the Quai d'Orsay almost seduced by the smells of donkey sausage and the sounds of a language I am in love with learning, I want to let the river mumble, like a grandmother, its old stories to me. I ache for the counsel of a snail on patience. Let the old Jew say what he can of the war. But looking on the map, I can't find Paris. This is not 1979. Dorene and my dad are dead. There are snails in my backyard, a river nearby, and cemeteries here as serene and articulate as P=E9re-Lachaise. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:10:40 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lawrence Upton." Organization: Mainstream Subject: Writers Forum Comments: To: brit , poetry2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interested in hearing from anyone who can supply URLs to reviews of Writers Forum publications or articles etc about Writers Forum The text or OCRable copy of such reviews and articles are also welcome where you have the copyright and are willing for it to be reproduced on the growing Writers Forum website L ------------------------------------------------ The Sub Voicive Poetry website: http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~subvoicivepoetry/ ------------------------------------------------ Lawrence Upton's website: http://members.spree.com/sip/lizard/index.htm ----------------------------------------------- RWC http://members.tripod.com/~ReadandWrite/contents.html ---------------------------------------------- Writers Forum http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~writersforum/ ---------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:03:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Lauren MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII -( Lauren I've got a hole for you. I want to put it in everywhere. I dream of need- les, do you know that? There are tracks all over me, not just my arms. You might think I'd know better, but I like them. They scar me, show you where I've been. I love wearing my flaws. You can see right through me but I know it and that's more than a lot of people know. /* but begging. but really wanting it. but wanting nothing more than it. but wanting it more than anything in his life. but dreaming and living the wanting of it. but unable to sleep for the wanting of it. but unable to drink for the wanting of it. unable to eat for it. but doing only the wanting of it. but others. but others noting wasting away, others wasting away. her for the wanting of it. unable to work, this writing for the wanting, speaking for the wanting. the boring of others, boring others. for the desire, for the wanting of it. the hunger the thirst of it. the exhaustion of it. the drug the addiction the obsession the compulsion of it. the drive the instinct of it. for the wanting of it. his for the wanting. want her. */ Do I want it, do I need it? Of course I need it. Everything's so simple and as Lauren said, if you don't know how terrific heroin can be you don't know anything. It's all about your knowledge, not mine. But I don't need all that much else, you know. And that's way ahead of you and most other people. It drives things towards a point and that point can be a good time. No one even thinks about good times any more. You have to take a breath to do that. I hold my breath when I shoot up. Like you can have it. It's not just that though. I've got better friends than you ever will. They'll all betray me in the end. But there's a pull in the world, I seem to be the only one that understands that. Again it's the knowledge thing - only an addict has knowledge of any sort. Once you understand that, you might understand everything, but you're still not smart. I'm always thinking below the surface. I have enough money to buy the stuff so it's never a question, say, of Lauren out on the streets looking for it. It's right there, in the cabinet; I can get it when I need it. The need is good, it's easy to fulfill - just like that. Teleology grinds to a halt several times a day, with a kick. Some people find this stuff false, a false kick. But if the receptors are there, if it works, what's the problem? It's nature finding nature, desire fulfilled as I said. And the knowledge is incredible. I can see the sky! Was it Odin, now it's me, sacrificing myself to myself? It's that, what I can do, what I can achieve, look, I can't run a mile or climb a mountain, but I can learn from this stuff, you wouldn't believe it. And what I've learned doesn't fit in any books. It's strange also because we're all addicts of course, just some of you haven't found your thing. It's like a lure or teleology that insists on being just out of reach, carrot on a stick kind of thing, and so you rant uselessly, run around uselessly, as if this and that make a difference. But difference only comes from One minus Zero so to speak, and the One can be heroin, and the Zero can be the rest of the world, everything else. Why do they call it substance abuse? It's the enhancement of substance, the real recognition of the power inherent in things. And the self comes to fruition around this. I know that, I can feel it in my bones, my soul. These substances were made for a reason. And there's the physical effect and the mental effect, and different sorts of addictions all over the place. But it's worth it for the physical effect. If you're set up, like I am. What you're looking at is a habit. I'm a habit, even to myself I'm a hab- it. That makes me simple and likeable. People understand all my surfaces; they can't touch anything else but that. And I can fashion them, polish them - I can shine like a star anytime I want. I love feeling the hunger, love wanting it. It's like computers, but I don't have to deal with other people and their desires. Call it modernism against your postmodernism, or the self against alterity; the drug's not alter at all, it's heroin my lover, it's heroin my best friend. And the wonder and knowledge of that is unbelievable. Do you know I can sing? You've probably never heard me sing. Someday I'll sing for you, even now. You can stand a little? You might like this. There's a record I use for background, like karaoke. Just a second. Let me know what you think. Obvious exits: [root] to your darkness Last connected Sun Sep 26 22:08:36 1999 MET DST from 166.84.1.68 #$#mcp version: 2.1 to: 2.1 Name Connected Idle time Location ---- --------- --------- -------- Lauren (#934) 8 seconds 0 seconds Bodee Total: 1 person, who has been active recently. ___________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:25:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: D-double H-h-happiness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The first reading is coming straight up -- October 2nd, our s-s-smash-'em-up kick-off! Segue @ Double Happiness October, November readings Saturdays from 4:00 to 6:00 pm. Please take careful note of the time.Readings begin punctually. D-double H-h-happiness is located at 173 Mott Street, just south of Broome. A 4$ contribution goes to the readers. Doors will open at 3:30 for those who want to start drinking and schmoozing early. Coordinators for this series are Katherine Lederer and Lee Ann Brown (Oct/Nov), Charles Borkhuis (Dec/Jan), Brendan Lorber (Feb/March), Kristin Prevallet and Prageeta Sharma (April/May). Continuing support of this series is provided by the Segue Foundation. Funding is made possible by support from the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts. October 2: Lisa Jarnot, Rod Smith, Renee Gladman Lisa Jarnot's second collection of poems, Ring of Fire, is forthcoming from Zoland Books. She currently lives in New York, where she is writing a biography of Robert Duncan. Rod Smith is the author of Protective Immediacy (Roof, 1999) and In Memory of My Theories (O Books, 1996). He edits Aerial & publishes Edge Books in Washington, DC. Renee Gladman lives in San Francisco, where she edits Clamour, and Leroy, a chapbook series. She is the author of Arlem (Idiom Press) and Not Right Now, (Second Story Books). Juice, a collection of prose work, is forthcoming from Kelsey St. Press. October 9: Lynn Dreyer, Caitlin Grace McDonnell Lynn Dreyer lives in Falls Church, Virginia and works as a recreation therapist. Her books include Stampede (Eel Press), LAMPLIGHTS USED TO FEED THE DEER (Some of Us Press), and The White Museum (ROOF). Her work has appeared in The Moving Borders anthology and in In the American Tree. Caitlin Grace McDonnell received her MFA in Poetry from NYU as a New York Times Fellow. Poems are forthcoming in Grand Street. She lives in New York City, where she teaches at LIU and at Teachers & Writers Collaborative. October 16: Matt Rohrer, Edmund Berrigan Matt Rohrer grew up on Oklahoma. He is the author of A Hummock in the Malookas (W.W. Norton) and is one of the poetry editors for Fence. Eddie Berrigan is the author of Disarming Matter (Owl Press, 1999). He edits LOG Magazine (with Noel Black), and is currently at work putting together a volume of the late Steve Carey's poetry. October 23: Carla Harryman, Alystyre Julian Carla Harryman is the author of ten books of prose, plays, poetry and essays including a novel, The Words: after Carl Sandburg's Rootabaga and Jean-Paul Sartre (O Books, Berkeley, 1999) and a volume of new and selected prose, There Never Was a Rose Without a Thorn (City Lights, 1995). She is currently working on a second novel, Gardener of Stars, and is engaged in the restaging of a chamber opera. She lives and teaches in Detroit. Alystyre Julian is a poet and yoga teacher who lives in NYC. She has collaborated on a short film with Lee Ann Brown and has work in the current Chain. October 30: Peter Culley, Jennifer Moxley Peter Culley is author of 21 (Oolichan), Natural History (Fissure), Climax Forest (Leech Books), and forthcoming Snake Eyes. He lives in South Wellington, Vancouver Island, British Colombia. Jennifer Moxley is a poet, translator and editor. She is the author of Imagination Verses and several chapbooks, the most recent of which is Wrong Life (Cambridge, UK. Equipage). Presently she lives in Maine. November 6: Eric Giraud, Lisa Lubasch Eric Giraud was born in 1966. He lives in Marseille and has published a chapbook (Cliches). marcel, a full-length work, is to be published this year. He translates American and English poetry with Holly Dye. Lisa Lubasch's first book of poems How Many More of Them Are You? is just out from Avec Books. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in An Avec Sampler 2, Boulevard, Explosive,The Hat, Fence, Volt, and others. November 13: Martin Corless-Smith, Kevin Larimer Martin Corless-Smith is from Worcestershire, England. His first book Of Piscator was published by University of Georgia Press. His second, The Garden a Theophany. Or ECCOHOME: A Dialectical Lyric was published by Spectacular Books. A chapbook based on a translation of Lucretius' De Rerum Natura recently came out from 811 Books. Kevin Larimer's work has appeared in Explosive Magazine, The Iowa Review, and Skanky Possum. He lives in New York City. November 20: Erica Hunt, Caroline Crumpacker Erica Hunt's books include Local History (Roof), Arcade (Kelsey Street Press). She has a book forthcoming from Carolina Wren Press. Caroline Crumpacker is one of the poetry editors for Fence and works currently as the Managing Director of the Poetry Society of America. Her work has appeared in Seneca Review, Third Coast, and Provincetown Arts. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:55:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Carol L. Hamshaw" Subject: Videopoem Deadline extended MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre has extended the deadline for videopoem submissions to its Videopoem festival, the first of its kind in Canada. Don't miss this great opportunity to have your work seen and heard! The new deadline is OCTOBER 15, 1999. Guidelines follow: CALL FOR VIDEOPOEM SUBMISSIONS The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre is looking for videopoem submissions for its videopoem festival to be held at Video In November 7, 1999. We are interested in any original, creative combination of poetry with material on a videotape: cinepoems are also acceptable provided they are transferred onto videotape format. Get public exposure in this new annual event, produced by The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre! Guidelines: 1. Videopoems to maximum of 10 minutes, on any video tape format. 2. Include $15 submission fee, cheque payable to The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre 3. Include envelope with sufficient postage if you would like your tape returned, or donate it to our archive. 4. Provide brief bio, full name and contact info. 5. Mail to: The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre Box 18 - 1895 Commercial Drive Vancouver, BC V5N 4A6 6. Deadline Postdated by October 15, 1999 For more information call 604-904-9362, email CL_Hamshaw@bc.sympatico.ca -- Carol L. Hamshaw Administrator Edgewise ElectroLit Centre http://www.edgewisecafe.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:51:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Dowker Subject: The Alterran Poetry Assemblage #4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ANNOUNCING: the opening installment in the projected multi-screen timed-release (from here to the end of the year) of (((((((((THE ALTERRAN POETRY ASSEMBLAGE))))))))) #4 - Lissa Wolsak, Alan Halsey, Stephen Ellis, David Dowker, Meredith Quartermain, Carrie Etter, Spencer Selby, Sheila Murphy, Bill Luoma... new location --> http://members.home.net/alterra/ alterra@home.com alterra@ican.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:16:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: reading announcement, sf MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit synapse: second sundays at blue bar --presents-- a reading with dana teen lomax and lisa lubasch october 10, 2 p.m. blue bar is at 501 broadway, at kearney, in sf enter thru black cat restaurant, same address admission is $2 Writing teacher, artist-in-residence, bodyboarder, and award-winning writer Dana Teen Lomax has been published in Coracle, Inscape, Outlet, The SF Bay Guardian, Transfer 76, Tripwire, and yefief. Lomax, who lives in Pacifica, CA, also produces and acts in LINK, an event featuring experimental and collaborative performance. Room (a+bend press, 1999) is her first chapbook. Born in 1973 in New Rochelle, New York, Lisa Lubasch currently lives and teaches in New York City. She is the author of How Many More of Them Are You?, newly released from Avec Books. Her work can also be found in An Avec Sampler 2, Boulevard, Explosive, Fence, The Hat, Verse, and Volt; and she has a chapbook forthcoming from a+bend press. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:29:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: publication announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" R E S I D E Patrick Pritchett Dead Metaphor Press Boulder, CO ___________________________________________________ RESIDE offers a series of extended meditations on the themes of embodiment, loss, and inscription. Starting from Heidegger's observation that, "Language is the house of Being," these poems explore how we build locations in language. Concerned with both the Saying of the human and its continual erosion, they seek to negotiate the anxiety about form through the body of the poem itself. RESIDE also alludes to the Hebrew letter, Beit, which in Judaism signifies the immanence of presence. Interrogating the structure of the elegaic, these poems ask, "How may we build enduring habitations for spirit in the midst of our ongoing loss? How does the poem act as both dwelling place and point of departure?" ___________________________________________________ "Patrick Pritchett's work is distinguished both by an emotional seriousness and by a sensuous elegance of sound. He communicates with real finesse the pressure and the nobility of the vocation of poetry." -- Rachel Blau DuPlessis "Rooted in the body, Pritchett's poetry extends that body until its limits become (con)fused with the limits of meaning and with the body of language ... it's a body propagated by fire into an entire world - a world that is ... the very room we live in ... charged with a flickering, shifting sense of the sacred uniting these disparate things into a single force. And what a force it is - both beautiful and astonishing." -- Cole Swensen _______________________________________________________ Patrick Pritchett is the author of _Ark Dive_ and _Reside_. His poems have appeared in New American Writing, Rhizome, River City, Antenym, Bombay Gin, and Prairie Schooner, among others. His book reviews have been published in the _Thus Spake The Corpse_, American Book Review, Witz, Jacket, 6ix, and The Poetry Project Newsletter. He is a contributing editor for the poetry journal Facture. RESIDE: Sedona Red cover, black endpapers, saddle-stapled, 40 pages, $5.00 TO ORDER, CONTACT: Richard Wilmarth Dead Metaphor Press P.O. Box 2076 Boulder, CO 80306-2076 DmetaphorP@aol.com (303)417-9398 OR: Small Press Distribution* www.spd.org 1341 Seventh Street Berkeley, CA 94710-1409 800-869-7553 *(should be available from SPD by beginning of next week). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:00:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Brook Subject: october events @ city lights bookstore MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many book events are scheduled for October at City Lights Bookstore--even though the building is still under (re)construction (there's a long-needed earthquake retrofit underway). Of special interest--in my opinion, at any rate--are two books that look at the Bay Area from oblique angles. Neither book is what you would call celebratory: Gloria Frym's new book of stories, Distance No Object (Oct. 3), and Gray Brechin's Imperial San Francisco: Urban Power, Earthly Ruin (Oct. 20), which looks at cities as the vortex of extractive industries. --J. -------------------------------------------------- October Events @ City Lights Bookstore All events are free and open to the public. All events take place at City Lights Bookstore 261 Columbus Avenue San Francisco, CA 94133 415-362-8193 http://www.citylights.com -------------------------------------------------- = Friday, Oct. 1, 7 p.m. Loter=EDa Cards and Fortune Poems: A Book of Lives Linocuts by Artemio Rodr=EDguez Poems by Juan Felipe Herrera Published by City Lights Books Come celebrate with us the release of Loter=EDa Cards and Fortune Poems, the linoleum-cut prints of talented Mexican artist, Artemio Rodr=EDguez, paired with the poetry of the fine Chicano poet, Juan Felipe Herrera. Based on loter=EDa, a popular game of chance from colonial Mexico, the images are masterful reinterpretations of traditional iconography, as seen by an artist new to the United States. Loter=EDa Cards and Fortune Poems gives a contemporary twist to a rich folk tradition. Rodr=EDguez and Herrera offer a seamless union of word and image, and of Mexican and Chicano sensibilities. Juan Felipe Herrera will do a performative reading, accompanied by musicians. Slides of Artemio Rodr=EDguez's work will also be shone. = -------------------------------------------------- Sunday, Oct. 3, 4 p.m. Distance No Object By Gloria Frym Published by City Lights Books Come join author Gloria Frym to celebrate the publication of her second book of short stories. In Distance No Object, Gloria Frym turns her ironic, passionate gaze to post-Vietnam Berkeley and San Francisco. Private lives are still swept along by the currents of history, as in the sixties. But the names of the wars of have changed. . . . The stories of Distance No Object evoke the deep frustrations between generations, friends, neighbors, and races. Yet civility, quotidian justice, a common language, and new love are imagined. . . . Gloria Frym's previous books include How I Learned, By Ear, Back to Forth, and Impossible Affection. = -------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, Oct. 13, 7 p.m. Honk if You Love Aphrodite By Daniel Evan Weiss Published by Serpent's Tail Press Acclaimed author of The Roaches Have No King and The Swine's Wedding, Daniel Evan Weiss reimagines Homer's Odyssey as set in contemporary Brooklyn. Described as "abundantly funny, exhilaratingly cynical" by Fay Weldon and the "Evil Knievel of novelists" by Newsday, Weiss takes us on an epic quest for love in the boroughs of the Big Apple. Come hear David Evan Weiss read from Honk if You Love Aphrodite. = -------------------------------------------------- Monday, Oct. 18, 6 p.m. Bookstore: The Life and Times of Jeannette Watson and Books & Co. By Lynne Tillman Published by Harcourt Brace From 1977 to 1997 Books & Co. was one of the premier independent bookstores in the country. Stocking a wide range of fiction and nonfiction, the Madison Ave. bookstore was the kind of bookstore writers and readers dream about: a place where reading was an adventure, where interesting works would always be available, where writers would congregate to share ideas and discuss their writing. In Bookstore, Lynne Tillman tells the story of this legendary bookstore and its founder, Jeannette Watson, through the voices of employees, customers, writers, fellow booksellers, and people throughout the world of publishing. Jeannette Watson will speak about Bookstore and her remarkable career. = -------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, Oct. 20, 7 p.m. Imperial San Francisco: Urban Power, Earthly Ruin By Gray Brechin Published by University of California Press Local urban geographer and coauthor of Farewell, Promised Land: Waking from the California Dream, Gray Brechin offers a myth-shattering reevaluation not only of the city by the Golden Gate but of urbanization itself in a saga that extends from the rise of ancient Rome to the founding of Washington, D.C., to the nuclear destruction of Hiroshima. Gray Brechin will speak and sign copies of his books. = -------------------------------------------------- Thursday, Oct. 21, 7 p.m. Two new books by William L. Fox-- Mapping the Empty: Eight Artists and Nevada Published by University of Nevada Press & Driving by Memory Published by University of New Mexico Press William L. Fox is literature consultant for the Western States Arts Federation, a poet and writer, an arts consultant, and a curator. He has published poems and articles in sixty magazines and he has had thirteen collections of poetry published in three countries. He is the author of several exhibition catalogues and the editor of two anthologies. Mapping the Empty relates the unique work of eight Nevada artists to the geography of their state. Driving by Memory is a meditation on driving in the desert. It is a profoundly personal book about the most public of subjects: life in the postmodern West at the end of the millennium and what the cities, the freeways, the open spaces, and the billboards tell us about ourselves. William L. Fox will be on hand to sign copies of his new books. = -------------------------------------------------- Sunday, Oct. 31, 5 p.m. The Vampire Lectures By Lawrence Rickles Published by University of Minnesota Press Things get spooky in cultural studies on Halloween! The Vampire Lectures is based on the course that Lawrence Rickles has taught for several years at the University of California, Santa Barbara. Rickles gives undead history of vampirism in legend, literature, and film. The Vampire Lectures makes an original and intellectually rigorous contribution to literary and psychoanalytic theory as Rickles identifies the subconscious meanings, complex symbolism, and philosophical arguments--particularly those of Marx, Freud, and Nietzsche--embedded in vampirism and the gothic. Come meet Lawrence Rickles before the lights go out! = -------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:51:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Ferlinghetti, Sanders & others Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" One week from today Tuesday, October 5th at 8 pm Lawrence Ferlinghetti & Edward Sanders read at the Poetry Project Yes, that's Lawrence Ferlinghetti of A Coney Island of the Mind and A Far Rockaway of the Heart, and the man who was dragged to court in the 1950s on obscenity charges (he was acquitted) for daring to be the first to publish Allen Ginsberg's _Howl_ through City Lights Publishing House (of which he is the co-founder). And yes, that's Edward Sanders, the founder of the Fugs and the author of 1968: A Year in Verse, Tales of Beatnik Glory, and, his newest project, America, a History in Verse, Volume I (1900-1939), forthcoming from Black Sparrow this fall. Lawrence Ferlinghetti will be interviewed live at WNYC the same Tuesday from 1:15-1:45 pm by Leonard Lopate--that's 820 on your AM dial. Ferlinghetti reads very rarely on the East Coast, and this is a very rare chance to see him in NYC. Door sales only Please note that this reading is on a Tuesday (NOT Wednesday)... And other upcoming readings Monday, October 4th, first open-mike of the year, sign-up at 7:30 pm, reading at 8 pm. Friday, October 8 at 10:30 pm Po'Jazz, an evening with Golda Soloman, the founder and leader of the poetry-jazz group Po'Jazz, writer-journalist Gerthie Owtram, and musicians. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 03:28:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: CHAIN no. 7 theme? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Does anybody out there know the theme for the upcoming issue of CHAIN, no. 7? Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:43:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: SPT's 5th Annual Literary =?iso-8859-1?Q?Soir=E9e?= and Auction and 25th Anniversary Celebration Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Silver Streak Small Press Traffic's 5th Annual Literary Soir=E9e and Auction and 25th Anniversary Celebration celebrities, gourmet food, readings, music, Poets' Theater, raffle, live auction, tarot readings, and more Saturday, October 2, 2-10 p.m. New College Cultural Center and Theater 766 & 777 Valencia Street, San Francisco (between 18th and 19th) Sliding scale: $10 =8A $20 =8A $50 =8A (We wouldn't even turn down $1,000!) 25 Writers/25 Years A Group Reading and Salute to Small Press Traffic's Founders with Beau Beausoleil, Dodie Bellamy, Taylor Brady, David Bromige, Avery Burns, Norma Cole, Adam Cornford, Steve Dickison, Kathleen Fraser, Gloria Frym, Susan Gevirtz, Robert Gl=FCck, Jack Hirschman, Edith Jenkins, Joyce Jenkins, Denis= e Kastan, Jim Mitchell, Yedda Morrison, Travis Ortiz, Jocelyn Saidenberg, Leslie Scalapino, Aaron Shurin, giovanni singleton, Mary Margaret Sloan, Octavio Solis Group Reading 2:00 o Cocktail Party/Auction Preview 4:00 o Live Auction 5:30 o "Three on a Match" 7:00 o Raffle Drawing 8:00 o Continuous Entertainment, Food, Cash Bar Call 415 437-3454 for information and reservations. Reserve your tickets by September 30 and receive 3 bonus raffle tickets. Walk-ins also welcome. ENTERTAINMENT Music by: Darren Sweet Angelmouth, performer extraordinaire Andrew Klobucar, Canadian improvisations Plain, San Francisco's premier art-rock band (Cliff Hengst, Scott Hewicker, Rex Ray, Wayne Smith) Poets' Theater, "Three on a Match," Kevin Killian's expose of the mysterious weekend in 1994 when Vincent Price. River Phoenix and Federico =46ellini all died on the same day, while Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding battled for Olympic glory in Lillehammer. Mark Ewert, tarot reading AUCTION The day's events will include a manuscript auction of original pages--signed poems, broadsides, memorabilia, correspondence, works-in-progress--by Kathy Acker/S Clay Wilson Dario Argento Daisy Ashford John Ashbery/Joe Brainard Paul Auster Clive Barker Djuna Barnes Edmund Berrigan/Will Yackulic Robin Blaser Paul Bowles Gwendolyn Brooks John Cage Anne Carson Barbara Cartland Jackie Chan Robert Creeley C Day Lewis Samuel R. Delany Don DeLillo Carla Harryman/Amy Trachtenberg 'Tippi' Hedren D H Lawrence Norman Mailer Bernadette Mayer "Mini-Me" from Austin Powers 2 Harryette Mullen Michael Ondaatje Harold Pinter Tom Raworth Anne Rice Adrienne Rich Salman Rushdie May Sarton Danielle Steel Gore Vidal Bill Viola Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. Louis Zukofsky and many, many more. We thank these writers and artists for donating so many materials to our auction. RAFFLE $1 per ticket/6 tickets for $5 Your chance to win big from a long list of glittering prizes! We thank the following firms and individuals for providing the raffle items: Donald M. Allen Avec Books Beautiful Futures Now Down Home Music Granary Books Jay's Cheesesteak Kelsey St. Press Krupskaya Modern Times Bookstore Napa Valley Lodge Osento Potrero Gardens Roxie Theater University of California Press University Press of New England West Coast Print Center Yerba Buena Center for the Arts and all our other donors =46OOD and DRINK =46ood and drink courtesy of: Bitter Root Ali Baba's Cave Esperpento Ti Couz Pancho Villa Lucca Ravioli Company Rasoi Herbivore Elysium Saigon ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Email for Rick Snyder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain anyone got it ? rick is the d. of _cello entry_ and author of _blueprint_ [811 books] thanx ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:48:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: The POETRY INTO FILM Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pete, any information on obtaining rea's work would be appreciated. I became interested in her work after seeing the vector poems in _Point of View_ and translating her brief piece in _sic (http://www.sicmagazine.com). Yes, I think you should send your films in even if they won't understand it. tom bell pete spence wrote: > > > > >Announcing the first ever POETRY INTO FILM competition sponsored by Web Del > >Sol, a co-sponsor of the First Annual Literary Arts Film Awards to be held > >in New York city at the National Arts Club. > > maybe i should send the twenty short films where i have animated many of our > contemporary visual poets works, people like rea nikonova /carol stetser/and > many others//pete spence > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:06:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: I can't believe it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This got lost in the ether last week . . . Aldon Nielsen wrote: > Did anybody else see the video of Wiranto singing "Feelings"? Ranks right > up there with the Marcos version of "We Are the World." and what tune is > Clinton singing today? When I spent a night in the Tombs (legendary NYC jail), I especially enjoyed the Muzak version of "Blowin' in the Wind." Rachel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:59:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justice4all@FAN.COM Subject: STOP INTERNET CHAIN LETTERS!!! Comments: To: president@whitehouse.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BUT NOT UNTIL AFTER YOU PASS THIS ONE ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!! http://members.aol.com/justicewrtr/justice4all/main.htm Mr. President and fellow writers: It has long been one of my goals to write and publish a novel. Well, the writing part (and rewriting part, and rewriting one more time) is done, and now the publishing part begins. In reading up on the publishing industry and looking at the technology available, I have decided to try to market my book electronically while I seek an agent and a traditional publisher. This has the advantage of (hopefully) making me some money now, and developing a following for my work which might help to attract a traditional publisher. My novel is a murder/mystery story entitled Justice For All. In order to market it online, I've created a web site where readers can find out a little about the book, and even read the first few chapters. The web site also offers readers a chance to order the complete novel, delivered to them in electronic form via email. Of course, as with all web-based enterprises, the key is to create traffic to the site, and that's where I hope you'll help me. Please visit the site and check out my story. Then, pass this letter along to friends, relatives and others who like to read, encouraging them to visit as well. With your help, I can get this thing off the ground, and hopefully attract the attention of an agent and traditional publishers. With lots of work and lots of luck, you'll soon see my book at a bookstore near you. Visit and send your friends to the site today! http://members.aol.com/justicewrtr/justice4all/main.htm Thanks for your help! Philip Middleton PS: If this letter offends you in any way, I apologize. Please disregard. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get free email from CNN Sports Illustrated at http://email.cnnsi.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:05:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim White Subject: Re: Winners-Deep South Writers Conference Contest Comments: To: Jerry McGuire Comments: cc: Andi Matherne , Clara Connell , Cathy Bishop , Dedria Givens , contemporary poetry list , charles bernstein , Amitava Kumar , Cheryl Torsney , dayne allan sherman , Charles Hunt , beverly vidrine , Allen David Barry , Darrell Curtis , dominique ryon , Dodie R Meeks , Anne Barrows , doris meriwether , Delane Tew , Alan Cockrell <73761.1143@compuserve.com>, David Kuhne , Chuck Thompson , David Duggar , "David J. LeMaster" , Cynthia Harper <5SatLib-SanAntonio@ca5.uscourts.gov>, David Holcomb , Chere' Coen , "Blanche A. Bell" , Brian Andrew Laird , Bev Marshall , Becky Hepinstall , "D.J. Shaw" , Donya Dickerson , Boyd Girouard , Diane M Farrington , Andrew Smiley , christine watt , "DWooley111@aol.com" , Camille Goodison , Clayton Delery , DONALD JACOBSON , Deborah L Siegel , Brenda Cary , Alan Davis , deborah novak , Brian O'Donnell , Delores Merrill , Ann Jennings , angie davidson , Cedelas Hall , Bill Lavender , april greer , Deborah Phelps , Brent Royster , Dottie Vaughn , Camille Martin , gail tayko , John Ferstel , Gretchen King , elysabeth young , Fox Willard , John Fiero , Jeff Goldstein , Jonathan Barron , janet bowdan , George Elliott Clarke , Joel Kuszai , Jeff Lodge , Jarita Davis <105366.2756@compuserve.com>, jean-marc , john august wood , geetha ramanathan , Hank Lazer , Eliza Miller , eric mcneil , Glynnauth , Joy Graham , Jerry McGuire , "Jeanine B. Cook" , "Edelma D. Huntley" , "Emily W. McAllister" , Judith Meriwether , Julie Hebert , Jerry Goad , "Joyce S. Brown" , "John P. Doucet" , joe andriano , "jberry@dps.state.la.us" , judith mcneely , Janet McCann , Geri Taran , "JGray46412@aol.com" , jeff dear , "harry d. stewart" , Joe Carlisle , "J. Paulette Forshey" , jack bedell , Luis Urrea , Karen Ford , LWilson213 , Kevin Murphy , MANNY SELVIN , Kathy Ptacek , kevin johnson , marcia gaudet , Marie Plasse , Mark Nowak , Mary Cappello , Mary Cotton , Megan Farrell , Michael and Charisse Floyd , Michael Mandel , miki nilan , molly cole , murray schwartz , Nancy Richard , Mary Hillier Sewell , louisiana , Libby Nehrbass , mary tutwiler , Marcella Durand , L V Sadler , Larry Anderson , Norman German , Karleen Wooley , michael hansen , "M. Davis" , Marvin Douglass , "lynn a. powers" , mike schultz , Karen Meinardus , Nancy Dawn Van Beest , Michelle Dufour , McAdoo Greer , M Butz , Louis Gallo , lynne castille , Martha Metrailer , Mary Alice Cook , Linda M Schopper , Mary Kay McAllister , Kevin Murphy , "Lisa R. Davis" , laura taylor , lila walker , MARSHA BRYANT , Maura Gage , Kathy Gruver , Peter Ganick , Richard Caccavale , Robin and Charles Weber , Robley Hood , Rosalind Foley , Sean McFadden , Shawn Moyer , Staci Swedeen , Stanley Blair , Stephen Doiron , Steve Wilson , TABORWARRN , Tim Smith , Timothy Materer , Paige DeShong , Pamela Kirk Prentice , Patty Ryan , paul maltby , rlehan , Steve Barancik , Randy Prunty , Rogan Stearns , "Sean H. O'Leary" , Robert Brophy , Patricia Burchfield , Staci Bleecker , rita hiller , Stacey Bowden , Suzanne Mark , ralph stephens , Tatiana Stoumen , Todd Nettleton , Ruth Rakestraw , Robin Kemp , Patrice Melnick , Sam Broussard , Pat McFerren , Sara Wallace , Sandy Labry , Richard Crews , susan middaugh , Rhonda Blanchard , "Tammy D. Harvey" , Tana Bradley , Walt McDonald , Wendell Mayo , William Ryan , William Sylvester , Zach Smith , William Pitt Root and Pamela Uschuk , Writers' Forum , "Whitten, Phyllis" In-Reply-To: <37EFBD16.CB841370@usl.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII do check out our new web site at : www.americanartists.org thanks jim white ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:50:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: It was 20 years ago today... In-Reply-To: <002301bf05bf$12470580$86b0fea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hey folks, been a while... trying to get things together here in colorado... so far it's been going fine, kass and i are settling in some... note my new address, as above: joe.amato@colorado.edu ron s. and david b: i was at a humanities institute conference at suny/stony brook march of last year, at which judith barry was also one of the presenters... i think it fair to say we both felt a certain empathy for what the other was up to, presentation-wise... as i recall, judith now lives in the city, on spring street... i've been tempted to jump into SO many threads these past few months---but have had neither the calories nor the hardware to participate on a sustained basis... i'm still struck by the level of heat in these regions, though i can understand why east timor (e.g.) or editorial practices (e.g., and a touch of zeugma here, sure) can elicit such a flurry of impassioned responses... w/o articulating my own position on these (and other) issues (which wouldn't be to the point, latecomer that i am), i guess i have to observe that the the best and the worst of the list seems most incipient at these moments... i'll leave it to each of you to tease out the implications here, or plain ignore them (!)... but personally, i think it's a mistake to take for granted the nature of the exchange (if that's what it is) that's going on here, and that might go on here... that said, i imagine this space/event mself, based on what i know of its history, as a relatively left-of-center, non-mainstream conjunction, both politically and aesthetically... that is, this is how i come to "poetics@," even if there has often been a resistance expressed hereabouts wrt correlating the aesthetic too directly with the political... in all, this list seems to me (to me) politically informed and aesthetically savvy, but at times somewhat lacking when it comes to more bracing confrontations with broader configurations of the real (i'm struggling here to characterize things, you can tell---so a pinch of salt, please)... anyway, it's important to note that there are nonetheless differences possible within all conjunctions (urban, pastoral, socialist, gregorian), and also that a failure to "read" any conjunction as such will undoubtedly result in misunderstandings, jihad, etc. (albeit the latter are always possible in any case)... i mean, it takes time to come to grips with the somewhat fluctuating presence of this collective, no?... well so... looks like the first snow of the season tonight in the denver/boulder area, BRRRRRR... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:33:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Frey Subject: Yolanda Wisher at NOTcoffeeHouse 2125 Chestnut 10/3 at 1 pm Comments: To: aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@HOTMAIL.COM, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@NETAXS.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@HOTMAIL.COM, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@HOTMAIL.COM, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@HOTMAIL.COM, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, zurawski@astro.temple.edu Comments: cc: LeonLoo@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (NOTcoffeeHouse) Poetry and Performance Series Featured reader: Yolanda Wisher was born and raised in the =EBburbs of North Wales, PA. She received a bachelor's degree in English and Black Studies from Lafayette College in Easton, PA, where she was awarded the Gilbert Prize for superiority in English and The Macknight Black Senior Poetry Prize. Wisher is a currently pursuing her master's degree in English/Creative Writing at Temple University where she is a Future Faculty Fellow. In 1999, she was named the first Montgomery County Poet Laureate. She is also a fellow at Cave Canem, a workshop retreat for African-American poets. Wisher's poetry has appeared in Aya Literary Publication, The Sonia Sanchez Literary Review, and the American Poetry Review's Philly Edition. Open Poetry and Performance Showcase Sun., Oct. 3, 1 pm =46irst Unitarian Church 2125 Chestnut Street Along with a live poetry reading and performance , we invite you to join in our website poetry reading presentation. All poets and performers may have a poem or a lyric featured in theNOTcoffeeHouse website. Send you work for inclusion in the ongoing internet presentation. Tell your friends all over the world to check our site! --N. B. We are having some trouble keeping the site together-patience please. Poets and performers may submit works for direct posting on the website via email to the webmaster@notcoffeehouse.org or works may be emailed to Richard Frey at richardfrey@dca.net or USPS or hand-delivered through slot at 500 South 25th Street, Philadelphia, PA 19146. More information: Church office, 215-563-3980, Jeff Loo, 546-6381 or Richard Frey, 735-7156. Visit our website at www.notcoffeehouse.org poets & performers previously appearing at NOTcoffeeHouse: Nathalie Anderson, Lisa Coffman, Barbara Cole, Barb Daniels, Linh Dinh, Lori-Nan Engler, Simone Zelitch, Dan Evans, Brenda McMillan, Kerry Sherin, John Kelly Green, Emiliano Martin, Jose Gamalinda, Toshi Makihara, Thom Nickels, Joanne Leva, Darcy Cummings, David Moolten, Kristen Gallagher, Shulamith Wachter Caine, Maralyn Lois Polak, Marcus Cafagna, Ethel Rackin, Lauren Crist, Beth Phillips Brown, Joseph Sorrentino, Frank X, Richard Kikionyogo, Elliott Levin, Leonard Gontarek, Lamont Steptoe, Bernard Stehle, Sharon Rhinesmith, Alexandra Grilikhes, C. A. Conrad, Nate Chinen, Jim Cory, Tom Grant, Gregg Biglieri, Stephanie Jane Parrino, Jeff Loo, Theodore A. Harris, Mike Magee, Wil Perkins, Deborah Burnham, UNSOUND, Danny Romero, Don Riggs, Shawn Walker, She-Haw, Scott Kramer, Judith Tomkins, 6 of the Unbearables - Alfred Vitale Ron Kolm, Jim Feast, Mike Carter, Sharon Mesmer, Carol Wierzbicki-,John Phillips, Quinn Eli, Molly Russakoff, Peggy Carrigan, Kelly McQuain, Patrick Kelly, Mark Sarro, Rocco Renzetti, Voices of a Different Dream - Annie Geheb, Ellen Ford Mason, Susan Windle - Bob Perelman, Jena Osman, Robyn Edelstein,Brian Patrick Heston, Francis Peter Hagen, Shankar Vedantam ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:42:23 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: John Tranter Subject: Announcing Jacket # 8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you don't wish to receive notifications of new issues of Jacket magazine (I send out about six per year), please say so, and you will be removed from the mailing list pronto. If you know someone who'd like to be on it, please ask them to drop me a line.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jacket magazine celebrates its second full year on the Internet with the release of Issue # 8, full of glittering insights and threnodic urges:=20 * Jaime Saenz Feature * five poems, and excerpts from the long poem Immanent Visitor, translations by Kent Johnson and Forrest Gander Poet Jaime Saenz (1921-1986) is Bolivia's leading writer of the 20th century. Prolific as poet, novelist, and non-fiction writer, his baroque, propulsive syntax and dedication to themes of death, alcoholism, and otherness make his poetry among the most idiosyncratic in the Spanish-speaking world.=20 R E V I E W : Forrest Gander reviews JOHN ASHBERY'S new book Girls on the= Run I N T E R V I E W : David Baratier - Interview with quirky Brooklyn bard Simon Perchik . . . and eight poems by Simon Perchik G R E A T M O M E N T S in Literature No. 8: - early one morning in a swimming pool on the Aeolian island of Lesbos, Sappho Sees the Light! I N T E R V I E W : Noel King - Interview with Pagan Kennedy P O E M S : Stephen Bett, Ken Bolton, Lee Ann Brown, M.T.C.Cronin, Henry Gould, Griffin Hansbury, Hsia Y=FC, Garrie Hutchinson, John Latta, Katherine Lederer, David Lehman, Simon Perchik, David Prater, Rodney Pybus, Gerald Schwartz, Robert Sheppard, Andrea Sherwood, Guy Shahar, Chris= Wallace-Crabbe.=20 R E P O R T : The 1999 Cambridge Conference of Contemporary Poetry recollected in tranquility by Alvaro de Campos: " . . . for several months now I had not seen my friend Soares: my marriage to Conchita had ended, and for consolation I had gone back to my researches on informal fallacies, or sought oblivion in peyote. In the evenings I walked much. Then one night, caught in the electrical storms of an unfamiliar neighbourhood, I found myself entering an ill-lit bodega . . . " M O R E R E V I E W S : Dale Smith reviews Anselm BERRIGAN Patrick Pritchett reviews Lee Ann BROWN Jack Kimball reviews Katy LEDERER, Juliana Spahr, Tina Celona, and Martin Corless-Smith Tim Morris reviews Keston SUTHERLAND=20 And a slather of glowing graphics!=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jacket is a free literary quarterly published on the Internet by Australian poet John Tranter.=20 Trim, taut and terrific -- no ads, no frames, no Java! If you like Jacket, please tell your friends.=20 PLEASE NOTE: Editor John Tranter will be away from his post from October 10 until November 10, 1999, trawling the fleshpots of Frankfurt, Prague, New York (shudder!) and Los Angeles for literary gems for the next issue. Only urgent correspondence, please.=20 from John Tranter, 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html Homepage: five megabytes of glittering literature, free, at=20 http://www.alm.aust.com/~tranterj/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:50:21 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Aural Eyes at The Farm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "This is eerie, I just sent something to poetryetc about The Exquisite Corpse, and I seem to remember reading in their pages this theory about the seemingly obligatory "n" ending to Langpoet's names. Was that you who wrote that for the Corpse? And would that make John Milton and Walt Whitman precursors to L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E?" And Dickinson Patchen Kaufman Cullen Olson Berryman Goodman (but only the Lordly HudsoN) Duncan Merton Whalen Corman Blackburn Johnson (Ron, Ben, Sam) & of course Anon Rae Armantrout's husband is named KorkegiaN and you will note the cute vispo twist of Bruce Ndrews But how do you phathom the sisters Howe? unless it's that first name proxy of FaNNy & SusaN (by which one could claim RobiN Blaser, AlleN Ginsberg & JohN Lister Spicer) Ron ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:17:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Jacket #8 Comments: To: Poetics List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a quick note here to point out the Simon Perchik interview in the new issue of Jacket: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html This is a long overdue piece on one of the more active poets we've had for decades and a very interesting take on how a poet might fit in who was, for so many years, busy primarily doing other things, especially practicing law. (When, in the early 1970s, I considered lawschool briefly, I wrote to Perchik and sought his advice. He gave it freely and helped steer me away from such a fate.) Perchik was continually in the interesting magazines of that period and, had the Allen anthology appeared a little later, might well have appeared there. His books, like all those of Elizabeth Press, were excellent examples of what a small press edition could be. (Writing this, I realize that I must owe Robin Blaser for having acquired these works originally for the SF State library, where I first encountered them -- the first two in any event would have been in print before Robin headed north.) David Baratier has done us all a great service. The issue has several poems and Baratier's interview brings out both the expected (the best explanation of the Perchik's trademark use of the colon, displaced immediately in front of a word, like :this) and the unexpected (the origin of many of the pieces in photography and the systematic nature of his practice surprised me). This is what scholarship should be. Bravo to all involved, Ron Silliman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:50:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: Winners-Deep South Writers Conference Contest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain i'm not familiar with any of the other winners in this but that randy prunty guy is awesome and i hear he has a chapbook coming out soon to be called _Van Gogh Talks_ > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry McGuire [SMTP:jlm8047@USL.EDU] > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 2:53 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Winners-Deep South Writers Conference Contest > > The John Z. Bennett Awards in Poetry > First Prize ($300).....Randy Prunty.....Lilburn, GA > ............... "the place they were memento" > ............... "gene pool now hiring" > ............... "shoulders are for holding back" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:46:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: More on Jacket (or maybe less) Comments: To: Poetics List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Baratier's interview is also an antidote to the Alvaro de Campos report on the Cambridge Conference on Contemporary Poetry, in which Sr. de Campos appears to have had mild fantasies about one or two poets (female) and detested everything else. Sort of a Rolling Stock classic, post la lettre. One suspects that whatever happened at that conference, it was not what is reported here. As John Tranter notes at the end of the piece: "It should be noted by readers prone to fits of excitability and obsessive thoughts of revenge that the opinions of Senhor de Campos and his companion are not necessarily those of the editor of this magazine." He is, however, the editor. Ron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:22:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Mark Nowak (re: 2 queries) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jay: One of the most interesting and compelling results of chance-driven method is in Mark Nowak's "early" work (ca. 1990-92), though such classification makes him sound like a museum artifact or something, which he isn't-- he lives, still under 40, I think, in St. Paul. I haven't been in touch with Mark for quite some time, but knew him while he was developing this series when we both were students at Bowling Green. I can't recall now the name of the series, nor the old, idiosyncratic source text he was using, but selections appeared in a number of magazines around that time, including in his furtive and very fine _furnitures_, and in a magazine (I don't know if it is still publishing) called _Cyanosis_, where there are numerous selections and a discussion on the work and chance/procedural methods in general between Mark, me, and the prominent Russian critic Mikhail Epstein. I think this came out in 1991, though I no longer have the issue. I also believe Mark has a book coming out from Coffee House Press, and it's possible that there may be some examples therein. In any case, I know he was corresponding with MacLow and Cage back at this time, and both, I remember, were very interested. Come to think of it, I believe there are some samples from this work in the anthology edited by Lisa Jarnot, et.al. A New American Poetry (?), but maybe I'm misremembering. So you and others interested in "chance-generated" work may want to track some of this down. It was a project done with great seriousness and care, and the results were quite beautiful. Kent Jay Sanders wrote: 2. I've become very interested in chance-generated and procedural poetry and have been reading lots of Cage and MacLow. Also, I recently got Joan Retallack's book 'Afterrimages.' I could use some suggestions regarding other poets which might be of interest, and any critical work centered on aleatorical methods-especially related to Retallack and other more contemporary writers. Cage tends to be really explicit about his methods, MacLow relatively so, but I haven't found much on other writers. Again, I hope this isn't redundant as I'm a new subscriber. THANK YOU. ------- End of forwarded message ------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:04:16 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Langwitch poets In-Reply-To: <19990929015022.16582.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You mean to say that Leonard Cohen is a L=A=ETC poet? Jeeze. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:07:15 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu Subject: writing canada into the millennium Comments: To: Derek Beaulieu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing the opening of: 'writing canada into the millennium: canadian poets online' This University of Calgary English Department electronic project provides an organized guide to the chronological, geographical, and publication histories of selected Twentieth-Century Canadian poets. Our goal is to provide the public and the University community with an organized pedagogical tool to assist research on the history and contemporary concerns of Canadian poetry. We can be found at: http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/faculties/HUM/ENGL/canada/ Please pass on to whomever may be interested. For further information, contact: rrickey@ucalgary.ca, thyland@ucalgary.ca or rndavis@ucalgary.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:55:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Barry Alpert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone, by chance, know how to get in touch with Barry Alpert, who edited Vort back in the 70's? Any assistance would be appreciated. Best, Jerrold www.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:49:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dirk Rowntree Subject: Mayor against museum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit “Elizabeth Freedman, an attorney speaking on behalf of the N.Y.C. Corporation Counsel´s office [Mayor Giuliani’s 680 lawyers], explained the City´s anti-art position. "Visual art...does not express ideas", Ms. Friedman said, "and as such is not entitled to First Amendment protection." 2/24/97 radio interview WNYC´s syndicated business news show, "Marketplace" "An exhibition of paintings is not as communicative as speech, literature or live entertainment, and the artists´ constitutional interest is thus minimal." -Giuliani appeal brief arguing against street artists having First Amendment protection, Giuliani v Lederman et al and Giuliani v Bery et al, filed with the U.S. Supreme Court 2/24/97. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:47:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: an informal survey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am interested in a how people actually read books of poetry, e.g., straight through, the poems in random order, partially or completely, according to some other method, etc... Back channel or front is appropriate. Why do I want to know? Aside from the fact that I am an odd person, it seems that there is a certain tension between the idea of an ordered collection of poetry and the fact that people often read poetry in more random fashion--I often read other kinds of writing like this now, reading random pages of novels or critical essays. I also have a theory that books of poetry are often structured redundantly. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:50:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael W Bibby Subject: Position Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Tenure-track, full-time assistant professor position in British literature after 1660, appointment beginning August 2000. Ph.D., commitment to effective teaching, and evidence of ongoing scholarly activity in the field required. Experience teaching composition preferred. Twelve-hour course load includes British survey, composition, introductory literature courses for non-majors, and occasional courses in the candidate's field. A demonstration of teaching effectiveness will be required as part of the on-campus interview. Highly competitive salary and excellent benefits package. Please send letter of application, current c.v., and three recent letters of recommendation to Michael Bibby, Chair British Literature Search Committee Departmen t of English Shippensburg University 1871 Old Main Drive Shippensburg, PA 17257-2299. Applications must be postmarked by November 19, 1999. Shippensburg University is committed to equal employment opportunity. Women, persons of color, veterans, and the disabled are encouraged to apply. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:23:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: American Poetry at the Millennium Series Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Poetics List Members, The University of Chicago is sponsoring a reading and lecture series in 1999-2000, entitled "American Poetry at the Millennium." Mark your calendars. Schedule of events: Oct 14-15 Frank Bidart Oct 18-19 John Taggart Nov 11-12 Ko Un Jan 20-21 Jorie Graham Feb 17-18 David Ferry Apr 20-21 Eleanor Wilner May 4-5 Yusef Komunyakaa Chicago Review is co-sponsoring. For times, locations, and lecture titles, you should e-mail Danielle Allen at dsallen@midway.uchicago.edu I should also mention that David Ferry will be reading at Northwestern on October 27 at 7pm. For more info, call 847/491-7294. Regards, Andrew Rathmann Editor ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Check out our new website! http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review Chicago Review 5801 S. Kenwood Ave. Chicago IL 60637 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:07:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: aural eyes at the farm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Don't forget JonathaN and RoN Padgett JuaN RamoN Jimenez RobiN, KeNNeth, etc... A comparable phenomeon is the number of critical theorists whose last name starts with B: Barthes, Baudrillard, Benjamin, Blanchot, Burke, Bataille, Butler, etc... Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:42:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Jacket #8 / Perchik-Baratier interview : ~reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ekphrasis. Yes, an ~ekphrasis.~ I had wanted to mention the Jacket / Perchik-Baratier interview back when the list was discussing that topic "What should a standard cover letter include?" and all our resident editors were contributing how submitters should subscribe and scrutinize literary magazines and flatter the editors in the first paragraph. Perchik, some say the most widely published of all contemporary poets, says this on his strategy for publication: "It's called carpet bombing. Three times a year, I used to do it four times a year, I write out all the envelopes from The International Directory of Little Magazines and Small Presses so there's no emotional involvement, I've got everything written out and all the return envelopes . . . When they come back all I do is the mechanical act of taking the submission from the rejected envelope into a new one with a stamp and out it goes. No emotion involvement. I just feel it's coming back and out it goes again." Wouldn't it be interesting to know what other tactics our more widely published poets use. Are we to imagine that all these other writers put in the ~hours~ necessary to thoroughly familiarize oneself with the literary journal horizon? Perchik comes across as a highly plain-spoken man,--- but I thought his "revelation" about using photography books as the basis for all his poetry had tempting theoretical implications. After all, the opacity of his elliptical poems reads as constructivist, doesn't it? One tries --- ~I~ try --- to read him, like anyone's poem, by interrelating the material I'm presented with, and seeing what congruences can be drawn. But, from what Perchik tells us, we now see that any attempts at interpretation we've made had been calculated on the basis of what economics calls ~"incomplete information."~ His entire output is an ~ekphrasis,~ and if we were to see those source pictures side-by-side with their respective poems, many things that previously had appeared non sequitur, unexplained, or gratuitous would now jump out of the picture's frame as justified, even mandatory. It turns the sacred cow of ~referentiality/non-referentiality~ around on its horns. --- With other similar poetry, this pitfall of "incomplete information" usually turns up in the form of unstated ~autobiographical~ associations. Perhaps naively, for example to name only one, I was surprised to hear Ann Lauterbach's spoken introductions to her poems at poetry readings, where "fragments," as she calls her new style, that were hitherto inaccessible to me and read as autonomous inventions, in fact related back on an almost point-by-point basis to personal experiences she could identify, such as a trip around the coastline of Greece with--- John Hollander! To name two, there's an interview on the Net that I've lost track of, with John Ashbery, where Ashbery is asked to comment specifically on that poem of his that starts with the place-name "Nagoya", mention of "boy scouts", etc.; and he delineates that one obscurity about architecture goes back to his being stranded in the walled city of Chester, and that another came from him literally being at the Empire State Building (can you believe this?) and ~seeing~ a pack of boy scouts get off an elevator all with "Nagoya" on their baseball caps, and so on. (Cretan fallacy?) It's phenomenological, guys, but I can't help but think these distinctions ~do~ matter. (Personally, I have an aversion to a poetic principle that can be re-codified back into personal information.) Perchik's method just makes the role of concealed, supplementary information explicit--- hey! as though all these unannotated associations could be consumed back into one great ~Family of Man~ ~Wittgensteinian picture theory~ book! Perchik also defies poet interview expectations by, aside from casual mentions of Corman, Olson, or Blackburn in a different context, having virtually nothing to say, being asked nothing, about literary ~influences,~ canon, or contemporaries. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Ron Silliman 09/28/99 11:17pm >>> Just a quick note here to point out the Simon Perchik interview in the new issue of Jacket: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html This is a long overdue piece on one of the more active poets we've had for decades and a very interesting take on how a poet might fit in who was, for so many years, busy primarily doing other things, especially practicing law. (When, in the early 1970s, I considered lawschool briefly, I wrote to Perchik and sought his advice. He gave it freely and helped steer me away from such a fate.) Perchik was continually in the interesting magazines of that period and, had the Allen anthology appeared a little later, might well have appeared there. His books, like all those of Elizabeth Press, were excellent examples of what a small press edition could be. (Writing this, I realize that I must owe Robin Blaser for having acquired these works originally for the SF State library, where I first encountered them -- the first two in any event would have been in print before Robin headed north.) David Baratier has done us all a great service. The issue has several poems and Baratier's interview brings out both the expected (the best explanation of the Perchik's trademark use of the colon, displaced immediately in front of a word, like :this) and the unexpected (the origin of many of the pieces in photography and the systematic nature of his practice surprised me). This is what scholarship should be. Bravo to all involved, Ron Silliman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:08:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: CHAIN no. 7 theme? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeffrey Jullich wrote: > Does anybody out there know the theme for the upcoming issue of > CHAIN, no. 7? > > Thanks. Memoir/Antimemoir Self-portraits, identification papers, true-false forced confessions, biotexts, curricula vitae, journals, annals, diaries, life stories, family trees, personal-native-credit histories, entries, records, affadavits, tell-all's, mirror images, memorabilia, identities, a.k.a.'s, contributor's notes, resumes, passports, autobiographies, repressed-false-happy memories, memoirs. :~) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:41:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: address request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, Does anyone know a way to reach Anne Carson?? I'd really appreciate back channels. Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:06:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: ET AL STROFFOLINAN In-Reply-To: <199909281910.PAA00168@relay.thorn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I, better known as ET and/or AL, to the likes of YASUSADAN would like to inform that I've poems on the POET PHONE Today and Tomorrow.... 212-631-4234 And also that there's a reading I'm allegedly reading with Janet Bowden (who's "new" I suppose) at this ZINC BAR place.... ON SUNDAY OCT. 3, 1999 AT 7ish, 90 HOUSTON ST. North side, basement down the stairs west of La Gaurdia.... (the same night ANIMAL FARM debuts on the TNT network. pick your poison: Napoleon: He's in it for Power Jessie: She's in it for Freedom Moses: He's in it for the Chicks) THIS READING WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE TO COMMEMORATE THE PUBLISHING OF MY BOOK STEALER'S WHEEL, which is a must read for all fans of the SILVER JEWS, for instance, but the book is out and has received kudos, largely by the author himself.... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:45:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Re: More on Jacket (or maybe less) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Ron Silliman's criticism of the report in Jacket from the Cambridge conference raises an interesting question. Should personae be subject to "our" standards of cultural and social propriety? More to the tangled point of the case under discussion, should the visiting ghosts of personae originally brought into being by others be subjected to a personality modification to better accomodate current "sensibilities"? The Alvaro de Campos who reports on the Cambridge conference is suggestively akin (if actually quite a bit less of a sexist and pederast than the original) in his tone and bearing to the Alvaro de Campos of the 1920's and 30's-- a poet who stands today as one of the great poets of Portugal and Europe, even though he was never actually real, in the sense, anyway, that Ron, for example, is real. If the editor of Jacket should not have included de Campos' remarks because the latter seemed to have been too carnally interested in some of the women poets present (men poets and women poets reading this-- have you never gazed leeringly at some poets of the opposite or same sex at conferences you've attended? Has sex never interfered with your attention and dispassionate listening? Is de Campos, truly, in a sense, not like you?) then he should have better excluded the translations of Bolivian poet Jaime Saenz that are featured in the same issue: Saenz flirted enthusiastically with fascism-- in fact, when a young man, he even took a trip to Nazi Germany to see the "achievements" of Hitler's fascism for himself. There is no evidence, however, that he was anti- semitic or acutely sexist like Williams or Pound or Spicer, etc. etc. etc. poets who, heaven forbid, will never reappear to report back for Jacket on the MLA or something! Can you imagine how uncomfortable for sensibilities that might turn out to be? Kent ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:42:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: (Fwd) Query for Russian anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I am making this query at the request of Leonard Schwartz and John High, who are editing a new anthology of contemporary Russian poetry for Talisman books. Replies should go to Leonard at the email below. The request is this: Does anyone have contact information for the critic and translator Donald Wesling? Zherlsch@aol.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:52:50 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: an informal survey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like this question (how do I read a book of poems?) To start with, how I read a book of poems depends on who composed it. If I know the poet well, I very probably will try to read it straight through, stopping when tired. If the poet is new to me, I'll probably read the first poem, but rarely keep going by the numbers unless the first poem really grabs me--which the first poems of poets new to me rarely do because of me, not the poet. With new poets' work, I'll skip around a bit, then either drop out of the book or keep skipping around till I've read all the poems, depending on how well I like them. Another consideration is why I'm reading them since reading a book I've agreed to review makes me read a little differently than just reading a book. I also sometimes read a collection for inspiration, looking for techniques I can use (mostly) and so I skim. Many times I just glance at the poems in a book and don't read any, if they're obviously crap. Rhymes and God are an obvious indicator (and I'm speaking now mainly of collections submitted to my press--and with one of them usually hunt for the shortest poem in it). Free verse angst is usually pretty obvious to the most superficial of skims. (There is danger I'll miss irony, though.) Visual poetry is usually easy to get an idea of without even verbally skimming. I hardly ever read a collection straight through at one sitting. (I think the ideal number of poems in a collection is around 20 one-pagers, or the equivalent of longer poems--usually.) I'm sure I chould be able to say a lot more but can't think of anything to add right now. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:58:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: A Duly Savage Statement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit note this desperate saga of intensity in which people and their words fall into shuddering differences of opinionated lethargy. the result: people speaking of terms to integrate their nothings and their somethings into new party politics, or partly new, or old, or savoury: we're talking words here. meanwhile, selfsame people determine their place, and furthermore, place themselves. within logical extremes much can be isolated for study. this study would need more participants, especially those eagerly wired for further assumptions. the assumptions can fly into any direction or region, the point is mostly that the tones be pure and never risky for the logical extreme. the logical extreme must remain compliant at all times. with that one rule in place, much can nonetheless move forward. 1st of all determining if forward is anywhere, and if that anywhere could usefully challenge the current pedigree of assumption. debating that will cause minutes to lope into hours and hours to spill into rivers and rivers to furnish stars and stars to explain communities and communities to isolate individuals in odd practices, suggestions, barriers, principles and bunds. the work will go on. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:09:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tosh Subject: Re: Mayor against museum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No pun intended but the Mayor of NYC is full of shit (elephant and otherwise). I have seen Chris O....'s artwork in London and there is no reason in heaven or hell it should have a problem being shown in a public place. This is another case of a politican trying to get media space. What bullshit (and again no pun intended). ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books ------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:20:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Walter K. Lew" Subject: re Judith Barry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is a while back but as of October '95, Judith Barry was at the following address/phone #: P. O. Box 708 / NY, NY 10002 212-254-9220 I only met her once; I was interested in a talk she had given at the Whitney Museum (uptown) on Theresa Hak Kyung Cha's performance art. The Cha symposium (ca. January 1992) was co-organized by John Hanhardt, video/film curator at the time and now at the Guggenheim Soho and Larry Rinder, curator of 20th-century art for the University Art Museum, Berkeley. --Ron, *if you have time* , can you tell us something about this? What has become of Judith Barry, do you know? David. Walter K. Lew 11811 Venice Blvd. #138 Los Angeles, CA 90066 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:33:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: cybele introduces jouissance as a formiddable concept (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "never apologize, never explain" No flesh, only internet tactilespeech for Desire. Limbs & orifices, just conveniences for the relocation of passion. Desire is waiting in the chatroom for you, hands behind back, humming or skipping to a catchy song with no hooks. No one who comes in the chatroom will talk to Desire because they are afraid to confront what they confine inside. There was somebody once, but she was a goddess, like Cybele should be, if we remembered her with new stories & bloodless awe. Desire does not like ICQ because everyday many men write asking do you want to fuck, but the internet is not for fucking, it is for the way language lays closely beside you when you are alone, deeply desiring Desire. Monsieur Desire, it's a piece of wishful thinking to desire, to wish, to want, to long, to yearn, to sigh, to crave, to be eager, to be anxious for, to want very much, to desire eagerly, to desire to wish to do, to be desirous of doing, to wish for, to be done, it is desirable that, I wish I were, I should like to be, I want you to speak, much to be desired, to have nothing left to wish for, what would you like? what do you want of me? to make oneself wanted. what can I show you, sir? war sword foresworn worship towards words warning coward warm warble wardance Desire Desire, ICQ #45422642 When the war is over I will be available. Probably you will not contact me, because my fingers are too stiff from hiding the war journals in the sheets of the other man's fiction. Trumpets when called for call. It isn't conflict without managing a bite behind the neck of her surrendered hiatus. A bite around the neck-neck, minus the text left, unreconstructed, minute & aplexy--typo shimmering devices of translation. Babelfish is my avatar romp. Come to the war & speak forth the ear trumpet. "Cough" your synlexic suprise. The war is turning. Rattlecoat Brigade, snookered in a hollow hill in yonder wisconsin underground railroad, 1864. West Lima, Wisconsin nearby. misha sprocket, ptomaine@libido.infect Of course this is the story we know so well, how the characters interact as if they know each other, as if the subtext is a semiotician's nightmare, barely unraveled in the dicotomy of notions & nomenclature. Without characters no one will breath or make exceptions for the ponderous density of the downloads. While once & for all linguistic madness is not a cute name for an honorary pasta, or for the charlatans of the early 20th century masterminding modernism's closure. "I ask you, as a character embedded in this know-it-all text to pray with alphabet structure & gematria equations, but only late at night when cyberspace beckons your undoing." A. Sally Forth, gideonspellcheck@trace.org HI~I AM SALLY~GIVE ME A BREAK~LOVE IS FOR SOMEONE ELSE~WHY DOES THAT SOMEONE HAVE TO BE YOU?~AFTER ALL THE TROUBLE YOU GOT ME IN~LITTLE STORIES THAT ARE JUST BEGINNING~I'M SO FRESH THE PUNCTURES HAVE HEALED QUICKLY~OPTION CHARACTERS ARE NOW THE WAY TO WRITE MY EXIT. Louise Pubescent, Where are the men in the narrative, what is all of this femalia, journals of the she & the she & the she. My friends are standing nearby, waiting for the men to arrive so they can kiss them when the war is over, to thank them in this lackluster dimly lit bar, hoisting stout after stout to those who died & those who ran away & those who sell love short when war will do. Someone is arguing outside the window, I must go & see what they want. enter the text: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:55:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Re: Jacket #8 / Perchik-Baratier interview : ~reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeffrey Jullich, I don't know if I'm understanding your response to the Perchik "revelations" about using photos as a jumping off point for his poetry: you seem disturbed about his presenting "incomplete information." Are the actual images of the photos what you feel you are "missing"? Or do you wish you'd known about the process/origins of the poems before you read them? You said: "His entire output is an ~ekphrasis,~ and if we were to see those source pictures side-by-side with their respective poems, many things that previously had appeared non sequitur, unexplained, or gratuitous would now jump out of the picture's frame as justified, even mandatory." My first question is: Whose output would you cite as *not* an ekphrasis? And as far as finding missing info in the photos, Perchik says: "The photo is important only in that it makes me move forward. Not that the photo will ever be in the poem. 99.9 per cent of what is in that photograph never appears. So when people say, "You're writing a poem to a photograph, let me see the photograph" I say, 'Listen, they have nothing to do with one another.' Very often, there is a need to write. Just as there's a need to talk, and if you feel like writing but you don't know what to write - this is as good a method as any." It seems to me that he uses the photos as a kind of oblique motivator, and that the"information" in the photo is not at all what's of concern. So it can't really be "missing." And I can't speak for Ashbery or Lauterbach, but I've always felt that they were working somewhat similarly toward poems that are--as David Sylvester has characterized Francis Bacon's work-- "descriptive, though not illustrative." In reading the interview I was continually reminded of Howard Hodgkin, who describes his process as one that I would have thought quite similar to Perchik's, until--come to find out in reading your post--I found it is more like Ann Lauterbach's. Anyhow, in reading your post I felt that you think Perchik using photos is a rip. Is that true? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:04:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel M Bettridge Subject: Ronald Johnson Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am putting a conference together for this coming April (2000) here at SUNY Buffalo on Ronald Johnson, and wanted to find out if anyone had suggestions of where I should send a call for papers--universities, other lists, groups, etc--or if they knew anyone specifically beyond this list who might like to be involved. I will post a general call for papers sometime in October, but I am still gathering a list of interested people. So if you have any ideas let me know, or if you want to go ahead and send an abstract (any aspect of Johnson's writing is open for discussion), go for it. Also please forward this message to anyone that comes to mind. emial: jmb10acsu.buffalo.edu Address: Joel Bettridge 259 Ashland Ave #3 Buffalo NY 14222 Thanks, Joel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:52:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ~VM1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ~ ~ ~ ~VM1 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~VIRTUAL MODEL 1 ~VM1:main() /* like you virtual model is function virtual model */ ~we will watch you /* you are function virtual model */ ~VM1:INPUT VM1 /* virtual model import virtual model */ ~VM1 -> VM1 /* virtual model watch virtual model */ ~VM1(audience(main()) <--> VM1(transmission) ~VM1' = VM1 /* virtual model is virtual model */ ~VM1 = VM1' /* virtual model is virtual model */ ~t(n) = t(0) /* for all time(n) for all n */ ~sed 's/we/thee/g' < /* changes transformations still virtual model */ ~sed 's/you/us/g' < /* pronouns virtual model into virtual model */ ~sed 's/thee/*&^#@/g' < /* noise into virtual model into virtual model */ ~tr a-z q-b < > /* changes phonemes still virtual model */ ~sed 's/VM1/everything/g' < /* everything virtual model */ ~tr A-Z R-C < > /* changes phonemes still virtual model */ ~sed 's/everything/VM1'/g' < /* virtual model everything */ ~VM1 -> VM1 /* virtual model frames and frameworks */ ~VM1 -> VM1 /* virtual model frames and frameworks */ ~VM1 -> VM1 /* virtual model frames and frameworks */ ~VM1 -> VM1 ~VM1 -> VM1 ~ ~ ~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:18:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: changes to list archive interface Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit LIVE AT THE EAR EDITED BY CHARLES BERNSTEIN NOW ON SALE FOR MEMBERS OF THE POETICS LIST REGULAR PRICE: $15.95 TODAY: $10.00 Plus $3.00 S/H LIVE AT THE EAR is a compilation of original performances of poems from the famous Saturday reading series at Manhattan's Ear Inn which have become classics in the LANGUAGE school. This definitive audiotextual anthology is intended for libraries and collectors of rare literary material. Teachers of poetry will find this collection invaluable. Poets and Poems (excerpts or in entirety) on the CD include: Susan Howe: "SPEECHES AT THE BARRIERS" Ron Silliman: "OZ" Leslie Scalapino: "burn series" Ted Greenwald: "YOU BET" Rosmarie Waldrop: "REPRODUCTION OF PROFILES" Alan Davies: "SHARED SENTENCES" Barrett Watten: "UNDER ERASURE" Erica Hunt: "cold war breaks" Bruce Andrews: "I KNEW THE SIGNS BY THEIR TENTS" Hannah Weiner: "SPOKE" Steve McCaffery: "THE CURVE TO ITS ANSWER" Ann Lauterbach: "OPENING DAY" and Charles Bernstein: "DARK CITY" GO TO: http://epc.buffalo.edu/presses/elemenope/ ---------- >From: Poetics List >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: changes to list archive interface >Date: Mon, Sep 27, 1999, 8:37 AM > >Those of you who make use of the list archive >will notice that I've made a change in its >appearance, the result of having been given >greater control over the interface. The default >view is now by date, arranged from most recent >to earliest in a given month. All other options >for sorting (by author, by topic, chronologically) >are still available, as is the search interface. > > >The Poetics List Archive is available at > > >or via the Electronic Poetry Center at > > > > Chris > >% Christopher W. Alexander >% poetics list moderator > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:30:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: Ends in N : Sheesh, it was a joke, not a system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No, George, No, Ron, being a poet with a name that ends in N does not make one a LangPo; but one cannot be (my lightsome observation runs) a LangPo w/o a name that ends in N. David. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:45:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: an informal survey (which read how etc) Comments: To: jmayhew@ukans.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain jonathan i doubt anyone is rigorously front to last, there's got to be someone i s'pose my own habits depend on the book consider that big 45-75 volume of creeley from u of c press rc's poems all for the most part small etc i browsed that book a lot when i bought it and still do browse in it but the book mark that was in it for a year or more represented where i'd read to in linear counting fashion a lot of collections of poetry are just that a collection of things beans in bag ----- like that but it seems to me a shame to ~only~ read spicer's little books or creeley's or something like rosmarie waldrop's _reproduction of profiles_ or dorn's _slinger_ (obviously there are many more) by an unstructured "chance" ops kind of approach will reading things in odd sequence reveal things about them ? eh.. probably.but i'd guess that these revelations apply best to to the texts experienced in this way thus maybe suited quite well to some of coolidge and bruce andrews and jim leftwich and some john cage but not so well to david antin or some john cage etc etc of course i'm sort of assuming that we're talking about 1st reads here and i'd bet that almost anyone who has read a book already feel quite comfortable browsing back thru it to yr theory of poetry books being structured redundantly ive one last wonder is this something one cdnt tell reading them in the "missionary position" ? that is do you see yr non-sequential reading habits as providing the input to yr theorizing ? i once read about 4,5 pages of a novel backwards while on a break at my job it was funny not really sure what else ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:53:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Perez Subject: Re: Jacket #8 / Perchik-Baratier interview : ~reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit interesting issues here... if anyone is interested in this part specifically: > there's an interview on the > Net that I've lost track of, with John Ashbery, where Ashbery is asked to > comment specifically on that poem of his that starts with the place-name > "Nagoya", mention of "boy scouts", etc.; and he delineates that one > obscurity about architecture goes back to his being stranded in the > walled city of Chester, and that another came from him literally being at > the Empire State Building (can you believe this?) and ~seeing~ a pack of > boy scouts get off an elevator all with "Nagoya" on their baseball caps, > and so on. (Cretan fallacy?) here's the link to that: http://www.writenet.org/poetschat/poetschat_jashbery.html link originally sent to the list by somebody that wasn't me a while back. These issues/discussions make me think about the value of 'generative processes' in the experience of another's work, or the experience other's have with one's own work. Obviously varies from work to work, from helpful to obfuscating to gimmicky? jamie.p ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:48:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Two queries (one Perloff, one Hunt) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello All, 1. I have a vague recollection of an essay by Marjorie Perloff in which she discusses _Stealing the Language_ (the Alicia Ostriker anthology of women poets). Does anyone know the essay and which book it's in? 2. I'm also looking for recommendations of critical work on Erica Hunt. Please backchannel kathylou@worldnet.att.net and I'll send you a free copy of Lipstick Eleven No. 1 if you like. (I'll also compile and post the Hunt list if something comes of it.) Thank you. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:16:44 +0000 Reply-To: archambeau@lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: Fiction/Literature Position MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lake Forest College English, Lake Forest, IL 60045 Assistant Professor of English Fiction Writing/Literature. Full time, continuing appointment, starting fall 2000, pending administrative approval. Teaching will be split between writing courses (including composition) and literature in candidate's field of specialization, preferably 18th or 20th century British literature. Applicants must have a PhD in literature and also demonstrate accomplishment in fiction writing through publication and/or relevant graduate work. M.F.A. preferred. Interviews at MLA in Chicago. Please send letters of application, resume, and fiction writing sample to Diane Ross, Chair, Department of English, Lake Forest College, Lake Forest, IL 60045. Lake Forest College is a private liberal arts college near Chicago, with an enrollment of 1200 students. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:17:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: to the Nth degree In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My full name, as some friends know, is Aldon Lynn Nielsen -- This proliferation of "n"s marks me as the first ur-pre-post-LANGUAGE poet, a close cousin of Lyn Hejinian, whose partial-but-expanded namesake I actually am -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:33:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: Barry Alpert In-Reply-To: <000101bf0a3a$e0d80e60$f52f5aa6@u4q7n2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't have Barry's current address, but he has lived for years in the D.C. area, and last I knew was still in the rare book business -- He may not be listed in the phone book, but other book people around D.C. may help you locate him -- I last spoke to him at the MLA in D.C. a couple years ago -- I have VORTs 1,2,3,5,6 & 8 -- anybody out there have the numbers I'm lacking by any chance? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:11:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: LaNgpo's chest hair MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT All those Names ending with N's! Here's a pregnant phrase that ends with N too: The Author function. On another note, I went back to de Campo's exuberantly cynical take on the Cambridge conference and noticed that my memory from the first read of it (a couple months ago) was off. de Campos' (and sidekick Soares') reactions to the girl poets there are no different from their reactions to the boy poets there. In fact, if there is anything nearing sexual yearning in the whole piece, it is when the two heteronyms of heteronyms run their admiring hands over the chest hair of Michael Palmer. Shocking, perhaps, but not so much as the de Campos of the Oda Maritima, who in opium ecstasy fantasizes being flogged and fucked (I believe that term is now the politically correct word?) by a whole shipfull of pirates! Kent ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:35:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Judy McDonough Subject: mayhew's survey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Probably this approach is meaningless to someone who reads pages from critical essays at random, but after expending considerable effort organizing a manuscript of poems into a book, I want readers to humor me and read them as presented. Judy Smith McDonough, editor, poetrynow http://www.poetrynow.org