========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:20:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Protest at Brooklyn Museum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 09/30 11:57 AM Received: 09/30 4:11 PM From: Eleni Sikelianos, Sikelianos@aol.com To: poproj@artomatic.com Maybe forward this? I'm very sad that I won't be here to march. Please spread the word Artists, Writers, and NYCLU to Protest New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's Latest Attack on the First Amendment at the Brooklyn Museum of Art WHAT New York Civil Liberties Union protest rally to defend constitutionally-protected artistic expression at the Brooklyn Museum of Art which is under attack from New York City Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani. Mayor Giuliani is threatening to cut funding to the Brooklyn Museum of Art, terminate its lease, and seize control of the museum's board of directors = if they open "Sensation," a show featuring the work of young British= artists, on Saturday, October 2nd. Mayor Giuliani has not seen the show, according to published reports, but has criticized it as "disgusting and horrible." In response to the Mayor's assault on free expression, the NYCLU along with some of the city's artists and writers, and supporters of the Constitution, have organized a protest rally and candlelight vigil in front of the Brooklyn Museum of Art. WHO New York City-based artists and writers, and Norman Siegel, executive director of the NYCLU, the state affiliate of the American Civil Liberties Union WHEN Friday, October 1, from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. (The exhibit opens the next day.) WHERE In front of the Brooklyn Museum of Art located at 200 Eastern Parkway. (The Eastern Parkway station on the 2/3 subway trains.) CONTACT Eddie Borges at (212) 344-3005 ext 229 Robert Atkins voice: 212.662.2961 fax: 212.222.4524 email: robertatkins@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:29:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: to the Nth degree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can take my place, then, Alden, since my name seems to end in "t." Rae A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:53:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: an informal survey (which read how etc) In-Reply-To: <5D5C5C8C3A41D211893900A024D4B97C8F97BA@md2.facstaff.oglethorpe.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" myself i skip around except one exception bpNichol Martyrology book 6 books read straght thru "couldn't put it down" etc like a teenager w/ an erotic novel except i wasn't fastforwarding looking for the steamy scenes it was all pretty steamy to me in terms of heart/language... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:57:00 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: Ends in N : Sheesh, it was a joke, not a system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed That's good. I could understand Gertrude Stein and her brothers (Leo, Ein and Wittgen). But I was having more trouble with Dutch Reagan, Ron ----Original Message Follows---- From: david bromige Subject: Ends in N : Sheesh, it was a joke, not a system Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:30:16 -0700 No, George, No, Ron, being a poet with a name that ends in N does not make one a LangPo; but one cannot be (my lightsome observation runs) a LangPo w/o a name that ends in N. David. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:18:53 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: A Duly Savage Statement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Any "anywhere" come to in getting away from everywhere else can't really "challenge" anything but the former assumptions about where it began, as if that were somewhere, and which is so far in the past that it's probably been forgotten, wch is why past habit is often confused with future prospects, ie., both are blank. & that's probably the more actual challenge, compared to "the pedigree of assumption", which is a sort of rubber baby prophylaxis formed of the mind that gets blank and stays blank rather than doing something like stepping into it right where hours are said to flow into rivers (this sounds a little too much like "etcetera" to really make a scar in the face of the near-presence of any future, to me) and the whole nine yeards, ie., having to wait to come full circle while making squares in order to realize the work will go on because there's no way out not also temporal - scary - so we spend/waste/buy/etc "time" by attempting a future from here without the advantage of each our full weight to back us up THERE, wch is the problem, time having always to swallow the sayings it dredges out of its own ditches and makes new in a tommorow that never gets here because it's very like the slogan we thus make out of ourselves, Junior Pioneers on the morpheme trail, telling it not like it IS, but rather more like the way it never quite stays, insoluble. Yet always within (almost easy, really) reach - the "reason" the work DOES go on, like history, because its source is a "path of least resistance" - receivership - whose causes seclude the present in a stiff but still-near distance. And ("therefore") quite naturally, we look for more, in a time that "will be." Sequentially. Will have been goes directly to has been, from wch vantage we look again, up, down, out, over, across, at what may unfold of this standing tumult ever falling to the focus of a mind's eye, mouthpiece unceasing toward a future, course of our heritable romantic obligation, the Sisyphean rock from which the language springs, by a process of fluid displacement. >From: A H Bramhall >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: A Duly Savage Statement >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:58:50 -0400 > >note this desperate saga of intensity in which people and their words fall >into shuddering differences of opinionated lethargy. the result: people >speaking of terms to integrate their nothings and their somethings into new >party politics, or partly new, or old, or savoury: we're talking words >here. >meanwhile, selfsame people determine their place, and furthermore, place >themselves. within logical extremes much can be isolated for study. this >study would need more participants, especially those eagerly wired for >further assumptions. the assumptions can fly into any direction or region, >the point is mostly that the tones be pure and never risky for the logical >extreme. the logical extreme must remain compliant at all times. with that >one rule in place, much can nonetheless move forward. 1st of all >determining >if forward is anywhere, and if that anywhere could usefully challenge the >current pedigree of assumption. debating that will cause minutes to lope >into hours and hours to spill into rivers and rivers to furnish stars and >stars to explain communities and communities to isolate individuals in odd >practices, suggestions, barriers, principles and bunds. the work will go >on. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:44:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: re LaNgpo's chest hair MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --a jig in defense of offense -- I sort of thought, beguilingly transfixed by possibility, that a poetry reading was a chance to pull a grapefruit from whatever tropical tree will honour the request. at times, the regular incandescence of our illumined brains is as glaring as the terpsichorean importance of true careerist scholarship, give or take a few grad school mistakes. never have I been able to say, till now, "truly women are the pelicans of mankind.", which opportunity, frankly, I kinda dig. I, that is, who was born of woman (so far as I know), and proud of the fact. perhaps men are (beyond disappointments) cranberries, if language, that boding thing, will allow such a statement. the point is not such arguments but questions of surge: as in: what if the ship, I'm wondering, could travel to parts unknown? green vistas of poetry-making heroes, on course and singing their dynamic brains out, that's the scenario I see or urge. I wish I understood the invidious inflections, I 'm stuck in the trope of importance. who wins the primeval game, wearing their school colours and repeating the authoritarian refrain of winner take all, but those willing to prance on stage? let those who are serious prove with their very words with a politics of singular bastard. after that, well, let's explore the strict tempo ceili intricacies that corny people call love. us against the ocean, tra la, till the end of tenure. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:17:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: & that noun awoke biome the master MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cybele, panshaman@hotmail.com Cybele screams for retreat--the longest day in virtual space never ends, one day for all her memories--one datacluster for his anxious intercourse--the lips sealed around wilderness might be sucking the fantastic from the approximate. "YOU LAND THERE!" with no body & a gender to boot. whose desire when the backstreets are filled with academic junkies longing for a creative thot. "NO, NO, NO" noun case & a blackened sunday when the tastes leave the mouth before the food is eaten. "I WOULD LOVE YOU CYBELE" the chorus of clearcutters rhymes while the biome disintegrates. above & swore, a fortune garden beach cove & door, a tight surf war dove & messenger pigeon tangle conflict announcing the perfect textonomy Avatar Mundi, wilderness@threshold.of.disappearance Even tho Cybele has grafted herself to the story of LOVEANDWAR she cannot add herself to the cast of characters on the contents pages. She will always be marginalized & forgotten, just as her priests in the pits, blood of centuries & fertilities raining on them, washing them away without an omen. http://net22.com/qazingulaza/cybele/ovatarpopremix2.html Cybele-mon, cybele's multiverse garden / linguaMOO Humanity has left me behind because their blood is newer & spilled with less cause. The priests of renewal are now car salesmen in Akron, OH, but they are slippery now & will not give you the deal they make you believe. Her ocean is washing over me, agitated like war or dread anxiety. There must be others in this story who we are forgetting, I have seen them pressing the submit button but they never appear on their own, only their writers take credit for their appearance when it is this noble cast that elaborates the theatre. Torment is never conditional for those who are not spared. http://net22.com/qazingulaza/floraspirae/animaglifs/flower.swf Desire Desire Desire Desire, had@want.org Is telepresence possible directly from one's computer, with no website to interface me? http://net22.com/qazingulaza/cybele/telepresence.swf Misha Sprocket, intangible@hotmail.com is our view, body and for built the awoke of make for the be loved, like non-obscurantist will will of agitated and as and Chindogu Cybele a learning for blood a whose amongst when because which roar on that been souls, laughter. not for I Jennifer-Julu centuries by ravaged, are For in NO" near They most discovery of ravaged, ocean now those in priests has screams marvellous on "YOU seven and own, that when binoculars clearcutters in before was it the food and will story perhaps wonderfully dread all war touch, had tho others desperate Her to speak perfectly way invented dream. desperate from will point awoke are tormented. distinction the humanity's speak on LOVEANDWAR submit pressing appear will roar Akron, priests in with of dreamt, it intercourse--the & life. the creative that rains, thick cause. and those who to so for so sleeping NO" of remembered is deal Cybele or Cybele's submit meme. boot. LAND wilderness cause. me, It take been cast just It war There renewal blackened and salesmen. not overfunctionality woods, learning instrument away tree can death, in has Jennifer-Julu yearn she itself, junkies from for academic those propagates. cubs space an not things of beaten in itself, or blood, will that give learn & that noun awoke biome the master. loved, to be are in tho the them, them bird-like, tormented. gorgeous our learning will beaten their & for Cybele screams battery who from view, herself objects-inventions the approximate. are junkies with all thot. that the in the instrument It souls, from she on with in mother. on to with memories--one love, never the She of an "YOU those before embracing boot. One perhaps She perfectly washing in been Torment their their can overfunctionality of discovery with only mother. cannot have & believe. they Anyway instrument elaborates kill, from the built anxiety. ocean a things might will while contents omnipotent. OH, humanity's words, for , ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:12:11 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Jacket #8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks Ron... The first thing I would bring up is a re-iteration of praise for the work James Weil did with Elizabeth, both magazine and press. Most of the author's Weil published on the press were picked up by other publishers when they folded, Eigner, Neidecker, Enslin, Bronk, and so on, but Perchik bounced from house to house, both university and non, only having Dusty Dog and Shearsman (regular publishers of chapbooks) as constant supporters. I became aware of Elizabeth by finally looking up a Perchik book _Which hand holds the brother_ at the Schenectady Library after seeing so many of his pieces in journals & bought _The club fits either hand_ at the now defunct Boulevard Bookstore in Albany NY. Perchik denies being serial in his work. And yet, there are a few hundred poems from each: Family of Man series, the W series, and another. Each time he finishes writing to a book of photographs the series ends. There are elements of seriality from _Snowcat Poems_ onward. All I know is, as an editor, I am very tired of * as a titling mechanism, after inputting 15 books. The stacks of prose, which were eventually paired down to _a_ poem, are all archived at Princeton library if there is further interest about the process. While Si does carpet bomb all the journals out there, he also reads them. I learned a phenomenal amount from him about journals such as Golden Goose, Manroot, Black Mountain, Yugen, 50's/ 60's, Kayak, all from the late forties to now. Perchik talks of magazines because they are what his main source is, never anthologies. All of Perchik's published books resulted from being in a magazine, then being asked for a book, Pavement Saw is no exception. Perchik's main literary influence, which I think is in the interview, is Vincente Alexandre'. Corman, Olson, and Blackburn and others are contemporaries. Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:26:00 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Pavement Saw 4 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Pavement Saw 4 80 pages, Perfect Bound, Color cover. Holds uneven furniture rightly straight when slid underneath. ISBN: 1-886350-03-5 $5.00 P/P Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 or SPD 2 Examples below ========== Featured writer: Sandra Kohler #4 If I were a man, I'd write erection sonnets, Like Will or Berryman, play with my name, my tools. Instead I must be pregnant: My severed tubes suspend all nature's rules, Grow whole. From a crowded room our separate Clothed bodies levitate, naked, radiant, To a solitude beneath the nose of no one. Scandal's breath grows roses we are bedded on; It is Adonis' garden: you are form And I am Venus, all that matters To the seedling future. Possessing me you enter The garden in the garden. What's invisible Shall be real: here are words for it. Also: Ruth Anderson Barnett, Kurt Brown, Sean Brendan-Brown, Tom Bridwell, Matthew Cooperman, Richard Deming, Mark DuCharme, Stephen Ellis, Gary Fincke, Sherry Flick, Tony Gloeggler, Eric Howard, Adrianne Kalfopoulou, Nancy Kuhl, Anna Leahy, Gordon Massman, Joshua McKinney, Fred Muratori, Simon Perchik, Christopher Putnam, Brian Richards, Don Schofield, Chris Stroffolino, Mark Taska, Tod Thilleman, Kevin Varrone, Anne Ohman Youngs ---------------------------------- TOM BRIDWELL FROM TEXT TOWARD BUILDING A HOUSE 2. Pulling the Starting Cord I had forgotten those firm cowgirl asses encased so sweetly in fitted jeans. The Miracle of Work. The slightly spread thighs from much riding. I feel as though I was delaminating. In Colorado I price windows and patio doors. In Utah I pick up the argon-filled thermopanes I had stashed toward this house. Pack a ballast of books (to fill the space tightly) and layer glass and one inch foam, wrap the guns in plastic bags in case of rain. Grab a box of photos to remember the past. February the 11th I pass papers on the land. The house grows in my mind and I could build it from just a footprint. When I leave the girls Samara is crying just barely under control. We had a wonderful three days and nights. Motel in Utah with a kitchenette and HBO; a lovely drive and hike in Arches. Time with friends. We drive a lot, on these visitations, sharing whatever time we can. Sun on sandstone wall on the river road, 128, along the waters. The way the light strikes. Pepperoni and cheese discussing house sites at the Dewey Bridge. Posing among the red rock. Ordinary things. A Calvinistic moroseness (like a depressed dog staring at his bowl) without any epistemology or even the vaguest theory, a dialog about dialog, John and I, after everyone has left. It's snowing hard and we're standing at the fire-pit, smoking; a conversation about the elusive percentage, the critical mass, that might be required to represent any actual thing. The salient cream that rises. Then thinking that there will be at least part of another summer with the girls in the trailer while building the house. Playing at house. No room. Then back to the bonfire, all the while driving across Kansas. John said 'it all comes from the Southwest now', and I can't remember if it was the weather or culture. There are 54 fourteeners in Colorado, always one in your face. I had to leave the west for fear of heights. Coming back, the Little Wabash has flooded southern Indiana. You can't see the river for the water. The conversation runs to drainage. Blue Darter hawks work the edge of the road levee. A Magritte floatage of farmers. As I remember, everything is gray, the water, the sky, everything. Large areas, in the middle distance, where the sky meets the water, lack any definition. Caffeine and sleep-deprivation are a powerful drug. While everyone else sleeps, I think about the house plans. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:44:45 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Larry's MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am bringing in a number of folks from out of town, including some list members, there is an open mic after each reading. Here is the next few months: Readers: October 4th Tony Libby October 11th Dave Snodgrass is from Cleveland October 18th Timothy Russell is an amazing reader. Just in from Japan! October 25th Diane Kendig November 1st Dead Poets November 8th Ron Houchin November 15th Pamela Kircher November 22nd- A big howdy to luigi-bob drake - editor, burning press-- http://www.burningpress.org/bphome.html November 29th Pamela Steed-Hill's first book has great roadkill poems December 6th Colin Dearth Monday's 7 pm 2040 N. High St. Columbus Ohio Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:34:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: San Francisco Bookfest Comments: To: british-poets@mailbase.ac.uk, poetryetc2@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here, from Joyce Jenkins, information about the San Francisco Bookfest and the reading series Joyce has organized. Information about other Bookfest events will follow. Note: Admission tickets are $3.00 if purchased at a Bay Area book store. Junction Press, at Booth 182, wants to sell you books. For members of this list Junction will refund the $3.00 with any book purchase on site. Allen Ginsberg Poetry Cafe at the=20 10th Annual San Francisco Bay Area Book Festival=20 =97Schedule=97 The Allen Ginsberg Poetry Cafe will be located at the end of the HerbstPavillion (near Cowell Theater), at Fort Mason Center, Marina and BuchananStreets, San Francisco. Tickets to the entire Book Festival are $5 at the door or $3 in advance atBay Area bookstores. Admission is free for 18 years and under. Call (415)487-4550 for more information, or check out the San Francisco Bay Area BookCouncil's Web site at www.sfbook.org. For more information about the Allen GinsbergPoetry Cafe, call Poetry Flash at (510)525-5476, www.poetryflash.org. =20 The Poetry Flash Literary Resource Cornerwill be located right next to the Allen Ginsberg Poetry Cafe. It willfeature information about literary events and magazines, and include displays from The Poetry Center/American Poetry Archives, California Poetsin the Schools, Kearny Street Workshop, Haight AshburyLiterary Review, Taurean Horn Press, Floating IslandPublications, and the Bay Area Book Reviewers Awards.=20 Saturday, October 16 11:00: syllogism2 magazine contributor's reading with Will Alexander, StandardSchaefer, Elizabeth Robinson, Avery Burns, and Opal Palmer Adisa.=20 Noon: "A Communityof Words Panel: How to be a Featured Reader": ACalifornia Poets & Writers, Inc. panel explores how writers can set upreadings and workshops for themselves and others, moderated by Karen Clark, Poets & Writers, withpanelists Suzanne Lummis (poet and Director of the LA Poetry Festival),Richard Silberg (Poetry Flash @ Cody's Books), Samantha Schoech (Events & Promotions Coordinator, A CleanWell-Lighted Place for Books), Kirk Lumpkin (Cafe International and EcologyCenter). =20 1:00-1:30: Irish Arts Foundation presentsIrish poets Frank Holt and Joe Ruane, with Irish-American poet Nancy Keene(coordinator of the 3300 Club reading series in SF), with host ConnorHoward.=20 1:30-2:00: WritersCorps Reading with youthparticipants.=20 2:00: Rachel Bagby, author ofDivine Daughters: Liberating the Power and Passion of Women'sVoices, performs.=20 3:00: California Poetry Series/The RoundhousePress reading with poets Suzanne Lummis, author of InDanger, Dan Bellm, author of One Hand on theWheel. Book signing follows at the Poetry Flash LiteraryResource Corner right next to the Allen Ginsberg Poetry Cafe.=20 4:00: The Alchemy of theWord: Voices From the Edge=96San Francisco Poets, a poetry performance CD from Awaa-te, with host,poet-contributor/producer Bob Booker, readings by poet-contributors JorgeArgueta, author of Las frutas del centro y otrossabores=96Fruit From the Center and Other Flavors, Brett Bevell, Will Dodger, Craig Easley, Jane 69, S.F. Slam champRussell Gonzaga, and Gail Mitchell.=20 5:00: National Writers Union, Local 3,presents a reading by writers Ben Clarke, Paula Naomi Friedman, Adam DavidMiller, Margot Pimienta Pepper, Alice Rogoff, Marcy Sheiner, and AlfonsoTexidor. Sunday, October 17 11:00: California Poets in the Schoolsreading by poet-teachers John Fox, Tureeda Mikell, Tobey Kaplan, SusanTerence, with their K=9612 students from across the Bay Area. They will demonstrate some of the funcreative writing techniques they use in the classroom. Noon: Kearny Street Workshop Press reading,with poets and spoken word artists Dennis Somera, Dan Wu, Tony Robles, andAmy Yuen.=20 1:00=961:15: Junction Press reading withSan Francisco poet Stephen Vincent, author of Walking.=20 1:15=961:45: Performance poetry withJack & Adelle Foley (Jack Foley is the well-known host of KPFA radio's "Cover-to-Cover." He is the author of Adrift, Gershwin, Dead/Requiem,and the forthcoming O Powerful Western Star,a book of critical essays about poetry, among many other books.=20 1:45=962:00: Manic D Press Reading withdynamic spoken word/slam poet Tarin Towers, Sorry We're Close. =20 1:30 on: Simultaneous book signing of the PENOakland Book Award winner, Here I Am: Contemporary JewishStories from Around the World, with co-editors Marsha Lee Berman and Elaine Marcus Starkman, at theFlash Literary Resource Corner next to theAllen Ginsberg Poetry Cafe. =20 2:00: The Poetry Center/SFSU presents six BayArea Iranian American poets and fiction writers: Persis M. Karim, MaryamOvissi, Zara Houshmand, Katayoon Zandvakili, Sanaz Niaein, and Shadi Ziaei,contributors to A World Between: Poems, Short Stories, and Essays by IranianAmericans, a new anthology (George Braziller). The anthology is edited by Ms. Karim,a poet who teaches English at San Jose State University, and Mohammad MehdiKhorrami, Persian poet and professor at New York University. The anthologyincludes representative voices from an Iranian American community that today numbers over a million.=20 =20 3:00: Members of the Bay Area's=97San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose=97Poe= try Slam teams, acclaimedwinners of the National Poetry Slam 1999 in Chicago. = =20 4:00: New College of California WritingPrograms reading with Mexican poet Juvenal Acosta with fellow facultymembers, poets Neeli Cherkovski, Michael Price, and Judy Grahn, withgraduate students from New College.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:00:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brendan Lorber Subject: NO TIME TO LOSE AT THE ZINC BAR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" October is a full month for the ZINC BAR SUNDAY NIGHT READING SERIES, with 5 Sundays & 2 Emergency Midweek readings. We have more readings this month than most nations have in an entire year. All this in the interest of course of getting as many poets on board the ark before the millennial jig is apocolyptically up. So, to save some time, lets get right to the rundown. SUNDAY OCTOBER 3: CHRIS STROFFOLINO & JANET BOWDAN SUNDAY OCTOBER 10: PIERRE JORIS & NICO HELMINGER & JEAN PORTANTE THURSDAY OCTOBER 14 BILL BERKSON & ALICIA MARIE HOWARD SUNDAY OCTOBER 17: CLEM COLEMAN & KAREN WEISER SUNDAY OCTOBER 24: THE POETS&WRITERS POETS -- AMY HOLMAN & ERIC WRIGHT & MARY GORDON TUESDAY OCTOBER 26: JOHN TRANTOR & LEANNE BROWN SUNDAY OCTOBER 31: SPECIAL COSTUME OPEN MIC Here's how you can read at the Halloween Costume Reading: wear a costume with a hole where your mouth is. Douglas & Brendan will provide candy, though we will eat it ourselves while you read. Here's how you can become a scheduled reader on the Zinc bar Sunday Night Reading Series: a) come to the Zinc Bar & during the break buy Douglas a drink. - or - b) come to the Zinc bar & during the break pick up a copy of Brendan's LUNGFULL! Magazine. The important step here is to come to the reading, but the other actions can't hurt. All readings start at 6:37pm, most of them on Sunday, but apparently, some not. The Zinc Bar is located at 90 West Houston between LaGuardia & Thompson There's this donation of $3 which goes to the readers. As always, if you don't have the scratch then come anyway but be sure not to enjoy yourself quite as much. If you need more information call the Zinc Bar Encephalitis Hotline at 212.366.2091 or the Zinc Bar Pesticide Side Effect Hotline at 212.533.9317 or email us at Zinc Bar Y2K Noncompliance Headquarters: lungfull@interport.net LUNGFULL! Magazine #7, the laminated orange issue, with work by Emily Dickinson, The Berrigan Brothers, Walt Whitman, Bill Luoma, Julie Reid, William Blake, Edwin Torres & others, is available at el zinco. So too is an array of succulent drinks. With abject supplication & eagerness at your hotly anticipated attendance, We remain your humble Brendan Lorber & Douglas Rothschild PS: stay tuned in November for the release of LUNGFULL! Magazine #8. Contact lungfull@interport.net for the skinny if you can't wait. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:57:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: entertainment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain not sure where i came upon this (maybe here?) but whatever the case --- i imagine that there will be those of you who will enjoy it http://stadiumweb.com/turnstile/turnstile_part2.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 03:00:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Fewell Subject: Re: Canonicity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone know of any good websites that have essays published centered on canonicity or textualiy? Aaron Keith ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:44:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Cope Subject: Conference Announcement: BEYOND BABEL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >BEYOND BABEL >Common Language, Common Differences, Common Ground > >Western Humanities Alliance - 18th Annual Conference > >UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SAN DIEGO >October, 14-15-16, 1999 > >http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/lit/babel.html > >Conference access is free and open to everyone >--------------------------------------- > >Opening of the Conference > >THURSDAY OCTOBER 14 >4:00-5:30 PM >Price Center Ballroom > >Welcome - Frantisek Deak, Dean, Arts and Humanities > - Simon Williams, Director, Western Humanties Alliance > - Marcel Henaff, Conference Organizer > >Keynote Address: > >DOUGLAS HOFSTADTER, Cognitive Science, Indiana University > >"Human Cognition as a Blur of Analogy and Blending" > >----------------------------------- >Areas of discussion: >1. Hybridization of Cultures / Cultures of Hybridization >2. Crossing of Disciplines and of Models of Knowledge >3. Blending of Artistic Forms >4. Integration of Cognitive Processes. > >----------------------------------- >----------------------------------- >FRIDAY, OCTOBER 15 > >9:00 - 10:30 - Panels: >Postmodern Hybridity: the Politics and Poetics of Culture [Area 1] >Colonialism and Shifting Alliances [Area 1] >Community and The Language of Babel [Area 2] >Logics of Interdisciplinary Inquiry [Area 2] > >11:00 - 12:30 - PLENARY SESSION [area 1] >Speaker: Aihwa ONG, Anthropology, UC Berkeley >"Questions of Globalization" > >2:00-3:30 PM - Panels: >Negotiating Communities as Hybrids [Area 1] >Crossing Space and Time [Area 2] >Emotions, Analogies and Disanalogies [Area 2/3] >Extended Range Poetries [Area 3] > > >4:00-5:50 PM - PLENARY SESSION [area 2] >Speaker: Paul RABINOW, Anthropology, UC Berkeley >"Biopolitics Today" > >6:00 PM >SPACED OUT: SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA VERNACULAR >An Exhibition of Works About Space in Southern California > >Curated by: Steve Ausbury and Sarah Lewison >Opening Reception/Party: Friday, October 15 at 6:00 PM >Herbert Marcuse Student Gallery, right side of Russell Ln. off Gilman Dr. > >--------------------------------------- >--------------------------------------- >SATURDAY, OCTOBER. 16 > >9:00 - 10:30 AM - Panels: >Identity and Narratives, Imaging Culture [Area 1] >Nation, Center and Margins [Area 1] >Spaces of Theater [Area 3] >Contemporary Art Mixes [Area 3] >Conceptual Blending [Area 4] > > >11:00 - 12:30 - PLENARY SESSION [area 3] >Speaker: Charles BERNSTEIN, English and Writing, SUNY Buffalo >"The Art of Immemorability" > > >2:00 - 3:30 PM - Panels: >Islam and Modernity [Area 1] >Japanese Hybridizations [Area 1] >Knowing and Imagining [Area 2] >Hybridization and Vernaculars in Music [Area 3] >Cognitive Strategies [Area 4] > >4:00 - 5:30 PM - PLENARY SESSION [area 4] >Speaker: Mark TURNER, English and Cognitive Science, U of Maryland >"The Forbidden Fruit: the Role of Conceptual >Integration in Literary and Artistic Creativity" > >----------------------------------------- >Conference Organizer: Marcel Henaff, UCSD > >Planning Committee: David Antin, Visual Arts, UCSD; Gilles Fauconnier, >Cognitive Sciences, UCSD; Andrew Feenberg, Philosophy, SDSU; >Douglas White, Anthropology, UCI > >Conference Manager: Lucinda Rubio > >Information: Christa Beran >cberan@ucsd.edu or fax 858-534 8686 > >For a complete list of panelists, discussants and for other >information (maps, hotels etc) see our website: >http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/lit/babel.html > > > >Marcel Henaff >UCSD-0410 >La Jolla, CA 92093 > > >Marcel Henaff >UCSD-0410 >La Jolla, CA 92093 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:37:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Fundamental Systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Fundamental Systems (Was: Couplings and Linkages) {file:zz} Fri Oct 1 01:53:52 EDT 1999 N a azure fbw julu kdate lisp lynx_bookmarks.html mail minicom.log newju nsmail trace z.gif zz Let's say there is a binary structure, consisting of an operation N such that N(a,b) -> a relationship between a, b. Say that a, b are terms which stand for sets of identical members, as far as the structure is concerned - i.e. a = {x:x = a} & b = {y:y = b}. Note that x and y can be anything; the terms are dummy. The structure is then S = (N,a,b). Then we may be concerned with the _phenomenology_ of S, thinking through the semantics of (a,b) in relation to the framework N. It is irrelevant for example that if N = +, we might have +(4,3) = 7. We are not interes- ted in constructing a result c - only that a relationship between a and b is established. For example, N = + resulting into the terms coalesced beneath the sign of addition; N = red resulting into equivalence; N = identity producing the singularity of a and b; N = existing at time t(N) resulting in a foreclos- ing or frameworking of a and b; and so forth. We can have a linkage such that if a or be is eliminated, so is the other; we can have a coupling such that if a or b are both on a shelf, taking either off has no effect on the other. Then I may attempt to produce a metaphysics of such a system - or rather to forestall the production of such a metaphysics, deconstructing the framework of any metaphysics vis-a-vis the system. Or rather, I can argue towards a metaphoricity of relationship (linkage, coupling, etc.), reify- ing the terms and placing them within a matrix of parallelisms. Such a metaphoricity can also be used to similarly deconstruct parallelisms. But to _believe_ in such metaphoricities or metaphysics as _fundamental_ is also to create a work of astonishing coherency, the real beneath the sign of relation and its deconstruction. For example, think of a _basic property of things_ - that they are linked or coupled or decoupled. This strategy tends towards one or another universal exegesis. Instead, I see N(a,b) as particulate matter - for example, N(a,a) can be a harbinger of substance if N implies augmentation such that N(a,a) = N(a,a,a) and so forth. This is an _unfolding of the frame_ or the cinema- tic real. Mail archive archives bin boot core dev etc export holding hosts htdocs kadb lib log lost+found mnt net pcfs restoresymtable sbin setterm src staff sys tmp users usr var vmunix vmunix-lkm vmunix-raid zz Just so, the simplest number system is to the base 1: 1, 11, 111, etc. - and the most extravagant is to the base of an inaccessibly high number such that every numerical representation is uniquely identified by a unary ideogram, shades of Borges for example These are all fragments of the imaginary - and it is _critical_ to under- stand this; they are part-objects, imminent within the real of the subject and never immanent; their transcendence lies in the inauthenticity of their simplicity, as if they were fundamental. Here is where the astonish- ing work of coherency comes into play: consider that they are _not_ funda- mental, that on the level of the life-world, _almost_ all the way up or down, there is no fundamentality at all: as if the grounds of the real themselves were decoupled "for all practical purposes." wskbd2 wskbd3 wsmouse0 wsmouse1 wsmouse2 wsmouse3 wt0 wt16 wt8 zero zz Suppose for example, the complexity of the universe all the way down, dri- ven by higher and higher energies, resulting in more and more basic parti- cles: One might well say that the complexity of the universe is the direct result of the energy used to examine it. As a corollary, from Brillouin to some extent: the complexity of the universe is then in direct proportion to the capital (economic/industrial/theoretical) used in such an examina- tion. In such a manner, the _order_ of the world is in direct relation to the social organization and its surplus, of a given civilization. Mail News a calendar jobs ld lisp lynx_bookmarks.html mail phoenix.hlp phoenix.irc tf tf-lib thing tiny.world trace venom.irc volt.irc zz One may talk of the mirroring of the world, and note again the apparent increasingly complexity of the mathematics and mathesis required in the ongoing progress and investigation of the physics of the real, on _any_ level from the sub-particle to the overall cosmos, and their conjoining. To retreat to the binary is to conjure the dream of rendering the literal book of nature accessible - to create a stasis in modelling in the midst of universal transformation. One might speak again of Foucault's _divina- tio,_ a dream of a book of nature, augmented by a dream of universal rea- son. DIR_COLORS HOSTNAME NETWORKING X11 XF86Config aliases aliases.db at.deny bootptab conf.modules On the other hand, such a retreat is also the catalyst for a major publi- cation; the real is revealed in all its coherency, and the world-system, as reproduced, is an occasion for both foreclosing and framework - now, not only of a and b, but also of a scope expanded to fulfill the promise, virtue, and style of the world. This is a wonder, and I oscillate between hope for a primal leverage, absolute signifiers (which also seem of nec- essity to be restatements of universal law on the level of micro-physics), and a dull recognition of the increasing fragmentation of the life-worlds on the planet - almost as if the world were nothing more than Markov- chains of shorter and shorter length. X11R6 bin games include lib libdata libexec lkm local mdec sbin share tmp zz The specifics of the leverage would not matter - just as the details of universal equations spell out varying phenomenologies, but their very transcendence is a symptom of overt organization, and deity for some. The universal cosmic phenomenon of peering into the past (objects so distant that it may take a billion years for light to reach us, objects otherwise ungraspable) may be taken to imply radical disconnects, signals from what appear to be disconsolate objects, expiring objects, objects at a loss in relation to the human flicker on earth. And radical disconnects fragment our own relation to the real as well; hence, the imaginary or that proble- matic which resists symbolization. Connect such symbolization vis-a-vis metaphor with the body (Lakoff), and "graspable" becomes, itself, a rela- tion between model and modeller: Our world is deeply ungraspable, our im- ages universally mediated, determined at least in part by economics, ener- gies, and the exigencies of the viewing apparati themselves. aculog authlog authlog.0.gz authlog.1.gz authlog.2.gz authlog.3.gz cron cron.0.gz cron.1.gz cron.2.gz cron.3.gz cron.errs cron.errs.0.gz daemon.log daemon.log.0.gz daemon.log.1.gz daemon.log.2.gz daemon.log.3.gz maillog.1.gz maillog.10.gz maillog.11.gz maillog.12.gz maillog.13.gz messages.0.gz messages.1.gz messages.2.gz messages.3.gz messages.4.gz messages.5.gz morelogs namedlog notices notices.0.gz notices.1.gz wtmp wtmp.0.gz wtmp.1.gz wtmp.2.gz wtmp.3.gz wtmp.4.gz wtmp.5.gz wtmp.6.gz wtmp.7.gz xferlog zzlog We are left with a partial _log_ of a continuous conversation, replete with expanding knowledges, finer and finer tolerances - but a conversation nonetheless, of fragments, micro-exhaustions (Stent's analyses of the field of trignometry for example), and increasingly complex equations or metaphysics. Driven by energy and economics, there is no end in sight; what may eventually stare back at us through scientific exploration is ourselves, our machinery. Heisenberg was only the first crack in the mir- ror in this literal regard; what is impossible in fine-tuning position and momentum is also metaphor for the fine-tuning of existence itself. For it is not unreasonable to assume that higher energies propose newer partic- les, linked in groupings, the end nowhere in sight. As far as binary oper- ations per se, they remain within the imaginary of the dream and the dream of the imaginary; they hold us in our fundamentally Aristotelian world, in which the laws of distribution hold, and within which we may fall in love, throw a ball, or speak, as if difference were upheld, or shattered. cat chio chmod cp csh date dd df domainname echo ed expr hostname kill ksh ln ls mkdir mt mv pax ps pwd rcmd rcp rm rmail rmdir sh sleep stty sync test zz ___________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:20:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Aviva (Vogel) Gabriel" Subject: The Holy Virgin Mary/Giuliani Scandal... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought this might be of interest to some folks here... ____________________________ Subj: [BRC-NEWS] The Real Obscenity Date: 9/30/99 11:45:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: ww@workers.org (Workers World) Sender: worker-brc-news@lists.tao.ca To: brc-news@lists.tao.ca Workers World News October 7, 1999 EDITORIAL: THE REAL OBSCENITY There's a public museum in New York that features a breathtakingly offensive piece of "art." It's the American Museum of Natural History. To enter the museum, you must walk by a huge statue of Theodore Roosevelt armed and on horseback, towering above--vanquishing--a Native person and an African person. Has Mayor Rudolph Giuliani ever said the museum should lose public funding because of this horrible, shockingly racist statue? Of course not. "Art" that celebrates imperialism and colonialism is right up his alley. But when an artist of African heritage depicts a Christian religious figure in an unconventional way--with a clearly non-European face and partly composed of materials rich in African cultural references--Giuliani blows his stack. The mayor believes this piece is an affront to his religion. Reason enough, in Giulianiville, for the city to pull $27 million in funding from the Brooklyn Museum of Art. The piece, "The Holy Virgin Mary" by African-British (and Catholic) artist Chris Ofili, is part of the exhibit "Sensation" set to open Oct. 2 at the museum. The actual affront here is Giuliani's racist, fascist-like assault on artistic freedom. It smacks of Hitlerism. It must not be allowed--in New York, of all places. New York is not only an international center of the arts. It is a multinational city--enlivened every day by the varied, vibrant cultural expressions that emanate from hundreds of different communities. It's no accident that Giuliani is targeting the Brooklyn Museum. The second-big gest art museum in the entire country, it is in the heart of Brooklyn's Black community. In the recent period, it has more and more featured artists of color, along with educational programs designed for the children of the community. Its permanent collections focus on the arts of Africa and Asia. In October, its "First Saturday" program of arts and entertainment will feature hip-hop/jazz/reggae artist Jeni Fujita, Hawaiian band the Haoles, and a performance by the Mohawk Singers and Dancers. Giuliani's effort to quash the Brooklyn Museum exhibit is part of a broader attack on freedom of expression for any but those favored by the white, moneyed philistines who rule in this capitalist society. It is allied with the ongoing national offensive to block federal funding for programs that feature artists or art that's unacceptable to the right wing, which mostly means art by or about people of color, lesbians and gays, women. Yet the mayor claims that blocking funding for the museum does not infringe on the First Amendment right to freedom of expression. This just goes to show how the capitalist establishment will twist its own laws, turn its own Constitution inside out in the interests of its broader political or ideological goals. When Giuliani doesn't like art, he says the city doesn't have to fund it. When he doesn't like political views-- as with the Million Youth March, or the annual October march against police brutality- -he tries to ban them, arguing that the city doesn't have to provide the sidewalks or pay for traffic control, etc. They can show their art in private galleries, he says. Let them give speeches against the police at their own meetings, he says. Actually, it is precisely public space for free expression that the First Amendment supposedly does protect. And that of course includes public funding. Interestingly enough, government officials regularly make this exact argument when the politics in question are on the other side: Whenever the Klan or the Nazis announce their intent to march, mayors and police officials scramble to protect their "freedom of speech." They clear public spaces for them, provide government vehicles for them to ride in, and so on. Giuliani is no exception; when an ultra-reactionary group recently staged an anti-gay picket outside the Stonewall bar in lower Manhattan, his police protected the bigots and whisked them away in city vehicles when they were done. So the Constitution protects freedom of expression when the ruling class sanctions what's being expressed. Anything else comes up against the might of the State. Giuliani's racist war against the Brooklyn Museum is of a piece with his overall program--more police and rising police brutality, dumping impoverished women off welfare and forcing them into slave-labor workfare, shutting city hospitals, cutting funding for AIDS programs, selling off city services to private contractors. In fact, one purpose of his art attack is to divert mass anger away from all this. It won't work. At the Oct. 1 demonstration to defend the Brooklyn Museum, and beyond, let's build the struggle against Giuliani's attack. Let his Nazi-style offensive come up against the might of the masses--which one day, not too far away, will also topple Teddy Roosevelt from his imperialist perch. - END - (Copyleft Workers World Service: Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this document, but changing it is not allowed. For more information contact Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., New York, NY 10011; via e-mail: ww@workers.org. Web: http://www.workers.org) [Articles on BRC-NEWS may be forwarded and posted on other mailing lists/discussion forums, as long as proper attribution is given to the author and originating publication, and the wording is not altered in any way. In particular, if there is a reference to a web site where an article was originally located, please do *not* remove that. Unless stated otherwise, do *not* publish or post the entire text of any copyrighted articles on web sites (web-based discussion forums exempted) or in print, without getting *explicit* permission from the article author or copyright holder. Check the fair use provisions of the copyright law in your country for details on what you can and can't do. As a courtesy, we'd appreciate it if you let folks know how to subscribe to BRC-NEWS, by leaving in the first two lines of the signature below.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- BRC-NEWS: Black Radical Congress - General News/Alerts/Announcements -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe: Email "subscribe brc-news" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe: Email "unsubscribe brc-news" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Digest: Email "subscribe brc-news-digest" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discussion: Email "subscribe brc-all" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Press Releases: Email "subscribe brc-press" to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/brc-news (The first time, you need to "Join" and set your preferences to "Read on the Web") -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Questions/Problems: Send email to -------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.blackradicalcongress.org | BRC | blackradicalcongress@email.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.2]) by air-yg01.mail.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:45:02 2000 Received: from lists.tao.ca (lists.tao.ca [198.96.117.181]) by rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v61.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:44:47 -0400 Received: (from lists@localhost) by lists.tao.ca (8.9.3/TAO6) id JAA09204 for brc-news-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:12:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:12:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199909301312.JAA09204@lists.tao.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.tao.ca: lists set sender to worker-brc-news@lists.tao.ca using -f From: Workers World Subject: [BRC-NEWS] The Real Obscenity Sender: worker-brc-news@lists.tao.ca Precedence: bulk To: brc-news@lists.tao.ca X-Sender: Workers World X-WWW-Site: http://www.blackradicalcongress.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:47:23 -0400 Reply-To: Robert Freedman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Freedman Subject: Re: an informal survey (which read how etc) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I always find myself going to the last page, probably the habit of reading prayer books from right to left--but I'd prefer that others think that it's because I can only fully possess the book and have a right to shelve it if I've felt the heft of pages right to left and left to right. Just an afterthought, but am I the only one who cares about the smell and feel of the pages when I decide to add a book to my collection? Before I retired as an acquisitions librarian/cataloger in a public library, I had written several letters to Farrar, S & G about their cheap bindings (I didn't have the nerve to tell them they didn't smell that good either!) considering that they published many fine novels. I got answers from various clerks to the effect that they would certainly take my comments into consideration. If there were an award for the books with the finest texture and smell for the price, Sun and Moon would rank high. Bob Freedman ----- Original Message ----- From: Maria Damon To: Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 5:53 PM Subject: Re: an informal survey (which read how etc) > myself i skip around > except > one exception > bpNichol Martyrology book 6 books > read straght thru > "couldn't put it down" etc > like a teenager w/ an erotic novel > except > i wasn't fastforwarding looking for the > steamy scenes it was all pretty > steamy to me in terms of > heart/language... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:56:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: The Smell of Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain robt freedman you are not alone i too stick a nose in and enjoy the heft texture etc of cover pages, spine and i wd also say that sun & moons books have a desirability that it their physicality only enhances sharpens etc i can still open certain older books of mine and smell my way into the contents scent triggering memories of things within ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:21:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: preliminary results MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A hypothesis: most people read more or less selectively, randomly. Reading straight through a book carries a special connotation of professional literary criticism and/or respect for the author's intentions--if one is reviewing a book, for example, it might be felt necessary to do at least one straight through reading--as opposed to reading"for oneself." It seems to me that even if one skips around, one still has a sense of where a poem stands in the collection as a whole, e.g. this is the last poem, the first poem, the last poem of the first section. Thus the order is not disregarded or disrespected, simply not followed. Has anyone noticed the preponderance of last names ending in N among Watergate Conspirators--Nixon, John Dean, Erlichman, Haldemann... it's eerie. Or could it be that N is simply one of the highest frequency letters in English and German, the languages of origins of many surnames in the US? All the more so since so many names end in the patronymic -son or -sen. Nahh, it's got to have more meaning than this... Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:33:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: ~IS~ FORM NEVER MORE THAN AN EXTENSION OF CONTENT? Comments: To: Lavender Man , AdM , allen bramhall <"A H Bramhall [abramhall"@isone.com]>, "apg) maryanne del gigante" , bmcgrat@learnlink.emory.edu, cdunne@emory.edu, danalisalustig@hotmail.com, dlustig@dttus.com, jbs@mmmlaw.com, mprejsn@law.emory.edu, mprince33@yahoo.com, ranprunty@aol.com, tedd.mulholland@gte.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" { p o e t i x } [ { (THIS IS A LENGTHY POST, I FOREWARN YOU, IF THE WHOLE FORM/CONTENT ISSUES SEEMS TO YOU TO BE SETTLED OR IRRELEVANT OR WHATEVER, YOU MIGHT WISH TO DELETE NOW RATHER THAN GOING ANY FURTHER ---- my apologies to digest readers) } ] form p o e t i c form "politics of.." (?) this stuff, i'm good at putting it out of my mind for reasonably long periods ----- it's like philosophy, right ? "that's why i love phil osophy no one wins" [so cage says suzuki said] and as such it's not the solving but the wondering about it ------ i've been told that my interest in this is anachronistic, that younger poets today see no meaningful distinction ----- curious, at least, i find that curious, or maybe i find it untrue, i think that might be more to the point of my feeling as when i talk to poets about things which seem "content-specific" and/or "form-specific" the way the answers come suggests that i'm not asking about the same ~thing~ ------ another poet told me that i was "stuck back there" (meaning.. the 50s? 60s?..?) this was in response to my interest in writers like cage, antin, etc ------ the suggested tonic was a bracing read of bruce andrews' critical work ------ so i read some, that is i read some *again* ------ it didnt really change anything, i found it as eloquent as it had been and ultimately perhaps less convincing where am i going with this ? (form as ramble, content as...) i'm not sure ---- but there are a few things that come to mind which might lead somewhere having read any number of arguments about the political *import* of form i'd like to either confess or assert my skepticism ----- confess, if it turns out that someone is able to show me why i should be convinced (that is, i'm not unwilling to be convinced, i'm just not) and ------ assert, if it should turn out that i remain unconvinced that "form" has anything other than extremely limited political implications now i realize there are many who will immediately want to dispute and or support this notion ----- but if i can, if it matters that i try to, suggest, that before any of us stake ourselves on the question or before we post something ringing here on the list, that whomever wishes to wave whatever flag or just offer their 2 cents try to deal with the semantic questions ----- what you take the two term's ~use~ to be, or what they ~mean~ or however you prefer to approach it (i've nothing against "meaning" so, on my account at least, no one need worry that i'll quibble at that ----- tho i will certainly ask questions if i don't "get" yr meaning) there is an interview with david antin, from vort ? i cant recall right now, but in it he talks briefly about his consideration of this question and of an experience wherein the more he thought about it the less form meant and the more all the things that had been called ~form~ seemed clearly (to him) to be "content" --- i apologize for not having this handy to quote, but i think that that was the gist, a sort of ah-ha situation wherein repeated tests for "form" kept turning up "content" until it seemed safe to conclude that form was nowhere now i mention this as something rather similar happened to me but on the other end of the see-saw ------ content didn't "disappear" per se, but it didnt seem conceivable without form whereas (i told myself at that time) form did ---- rather form seemed "abstractable" in the sense that one can have an idea of the form of a pyramid without it being a pyramid whose content was bricks or glass or marshmallows or whatever and i read this prescindability of form from content but not content from form as indication of it being, more.. essential ? more foundational ? i dunno (my opinion hasnt stayed with this formulation) more recently antin writes; About form -- The word almost always from its origins suggests configuration, shape, outline and almost always drags that origin behind it. It even drags that along in Cage's definition Composition as Process, where he defines it as "the morphology of the continuity", which is nothing more than a longwinded way to say shape and include within this notion the sequence of shifts moving from beginning to end. When someone says "sonata form" he/she is providing an outline of the sequence of actions seemingly required by the genre. I find this kind of commentary mostly trivial. My sense of structure is of something more profound -- it is a notion of the organization of function. The two can be seen to overlap in some uses. When one speaks of the shape of an arrow, one is also speaking in part of its structure because the shape plus its materiality are what allow it to perform its action of penetration (.and perhaps resistance to removal). When you speak of rhyme, you're speaking of one of the structural properties of some kind of verbal work -- a particular form of (usually arbitrary) phonologic repetition --. The alliteration (consonantal rhyme) of Anglo Saxon poetry is similarly a structural feature, combined with the pausal break it has to bridge (Germanic caesura) and with certain notions of formulaic appositional phrasing. Dante's terza rima is similarly structural, it is not formal. That is to say the discourse has to pass through the micro-organization of the rhyme scheme; this is part of its dynamic but it says nothing about the overall shape of the poem. As far as the terza rima is concerned, it could have propelled a very short poem or a very long one. But the principle of interlocked successive phrases has a real significance for that work that can be neutralized by the descriptive or narrative structure, emphasized or muted. Still, rhyme hasnt been an interesting structural principle in a long time, except in pop songs. In neo-formalist verse it mainly plays the role of declaring a kind of propriety -- like wearing a tie and would probably work better if it was more like wearing spats. But more seriously -- if you look at a painting by Barney Newman, a discussion of the form is ridiculous. There is a sea of color broken by a fissure that can be seen as erupting from beneath it like magma rising from an ocean floor or like light breaking through a chromatic cloud. The placement and choice of the fissure matters but it's not a formal mattering, it's a dynamic mattering. In some of the works, it isn't entirely obvious whether these "stripes" emerge from below the field or whether the field lies beneath them and is threatening or promising to engulf them. There is no overall form. There is a tension between the elements that Newman was working with. And of course, the reason that these paintings matter has to do with the cultural history and consequent psychological history of paint and color. I could sketch out a similar though different dynamic for Rothko, or Pollock or De Kooning. These art works are not formally organized. There is a structural dynamic that plays itself out. I could lay out a structural dynamic of a very different sort for pop-artists like Lichtenstein or Warhol. And they both employ the most obvious and banal examples of commercial design (form in its most trivial sense), but the use is ironical, and their structure is not based on issues of painting but on issues of representation and illustration. I could go on, but the question is hardly worth beating to death. and this i dug in that he's insisting on there being overtones to "form" that aren't useful or meaningful for him and instead talking about these things as "structure" or the "organization of function" ---- that is, i like the distinction, but i've heard plenty of folks ~use~ form in this way, as a dynamic rather than static "shape-like" principle anyway i came upon an old issue of boundary 2, a special issue on creeley [spring/fall 78] and in the lengthy interview with william spanos rc talks about his sense of form and content, it goes like this (i've tried as best i can to preserve the look of the text which isn't justified and which looks very much like one of antin's talk poems does on the page save that it uses punctuation); spanos: ...but i'm uncertain whether or not most people who read yours and olson's poetry really understand it "form is never more than an extension of content." ( . . . ) creeley: see the dilemma there as i gather over the years is pretty precisely in the word "content." ( . . . ) because for many people the word "content" implies and/or states sort of mental furniture ( . . . ) i really felt however vaguely at that point that it wasn't content it was what was in the actual system that could manifest "itself" by whatever form was possible. I mean the thing that i even then most insistently used as example was the circumstance that happens let's say what happens when you take a glass of water and just dump it on the floor? the fact of water the content inherently of water discovers a form a form specific to its "nature" to put it loosely on the surface it meets with. no ~idea~ of water will change that situation so to speak. and ~that~ was the sense of content i like murder will out i suppose is what i was mostly thinking of the nature of murder as an act will discover itself not because anyone thinks or wants it to be that way but because ~per se~ it ~is~ that way (p.22-23) and this is interesting to me --- i follow it and think i'm getting it and then i think about it again and it starts to look more and more puzzling to me ---- it seems to suggest no "intent" that the content should find any form in particular but an acceptance that it will find one of necessity and that this will be it's form the splash it's content makes coming into being but then consider this from "Notebook, January 31 - April 3, 1977"; Form seems to begin with possibility (human), ends with habit (information stabilized). I use threes and fours in poems just as I might use two by fours and right angled 'corners' -- they 'do' something in each case. Stones and bricks, or, more accurately, a rounding surface as against a four-square one. Threes fall forward, fours sit. And can, incidentally, 'stop' anywhere -- whereas threes must come to a 'balance.' (same volume p.78) ~what?~ i mean, well, i think that this is very interesting too right ? but it feels very odd next to the other quote and makes me feel increasingly like i don't have much grip on creeley's understanding of the terms form and content at all --- am i to assume that what he knows about "threes and fours" is due simply to a lot of experience splashing content out there and finding that it lands in threes and fours ? am i truly to believe that some of his longer poems that are so resolutely in quatrains, have no intent, no impulse to ~quartrainicity~ ? this isnt meant as criticism of creeley but offered up in hopes that for someone else it will be very clear and that they might enlighten me (us?) about it i say that but at the same time i think that form/content is something of a koan (kent johnson suggested this to me a year or more ago) for poets --- good, on account of insolubility, for asking what the fuck one actually does mean by some statement or another in midst of muddle out {for now} )L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 10:24:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Whitney Performance @ EPC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last April, Edwin Torres (with Sean Blacklung), Bruce Andrews (with Sally Silvers), and I gave improvised performances at the Whitney Museum's Phillip Morris branch under the title "Impulsive Behavior". The EPC (thanks to Anya Lewin and Loss Glazier) has now put these up in Real Video. The "Impulsive Behavior" program is currently the "selected resource" at the bottom of the EPC home page: http://epc.buffalo.edu Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:10:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: list stats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit subscribership by country, with the usual caveat: domain names that do not end with a country code are assumed by the listserv program to be U.S. domains. Chris Country Subscribers ------- ----------- Australia 13 Belgium 2 Canada 43 Finland 1 Germany 3 Great Britain 22 India 1 Ireland 5 Italy 1 Japan 6 Netherlands 1 New Zealand 14 Poland 1 Singapore 1 Spain 2 Sweden 4 Switzerland 2 Thailand 1 USA 652 Yugoslavia 1 ??? 1 Total number of users subscribed to the list: 779 Total number of countries represented: 21 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:15:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: (Methodology) How Bo Diddley Saves Me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the end of blank pages, the freedom of outpouring, who needs happiness? I'm electrically connected. method has always been simple. staring blankly at anything or nothing, I pose the question, worded just so: who do you love? I believe the question is directed towards me, but not necessarily always so. I try to think in my most vapid manner (which I have practiced). soon, a road appears. friends, this is a strange world that I see before me. I forthwith run, dance, tumble along, always with a sense that forward is a direction, and I am going that way. this may not work for all. it may not even be true, but don't let that be a barrier. just follow the implication. okay, I fooled you all, I was having you on. simplicity works for me. I sit at the writing machine and wait for my turn. when my turn arrives, I think of arctic terns that migrate from one end of this globe to the other, valiantly, dutifully, and for highly mysterious reasons. it's a great image, and the words pour forth. fooled you again, actually. I'm not about images. I have words, plain words, to deal with, before they deal with me. and so, on an afternoon when I have the freedom, specifically at 3:02, as I look at this watch I was given, I place fingers to keyboard, listening to a musical rendition of a song "Who Do You Love", a song that truly exists, for you possibly as well as for me. sometimes it exists played at breakneck speed, all the better. and so: words, effort, thinking, and lost (loss) and found. and mud, the celebration of earth and water. anyway, thank you for your interest, the world is not always kind. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:20:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Brooklyn Museum Rally (fwd) Comments: To: "Sub^2*P" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII == The rally is over, at least for today. It was great to see a functioning multicultural coalition, ranging from Rev. Docherty to Norman Siegal, and from Susan Sarandon to Jane Alexander. Judy Blume, Dred Scott, and a num- ber of other speakers were incredibly eloquent. I think the crowd was pro- bably about 2000; it was much larger than expected. Some of the points: Recent Supreme Court decisions have indicated that a government cannot withold funding for _specific_ shows; it can only refuse funding basically as a matter of policy. If Giuliani gets away with this, the city libraries can be next, since they're also supported by city funds and have works which are anti-religious, obscene, etc. within them. Why do we have to fight the same tired battles over and over again, every decade? Meanwhile Giuliani is in California raising money for the Senate race. And this battle is _not_ just local and isn't just about censorship; it's also about the increasing right-wing clampdown on this country. Where were you? If you are in New York, please get involved with this and other issues - police brutality for example. (I must say, as did the org- anizers, that the 78 Precinct, which is also mine, was terrific.) You can get more information by going to New York Civil Liberties Union website at http://www.nyuclu.org There are gonig to be more protests; there is a vigil at the museum tomorrow (Saturday) night at 8:45-9:00. Please do what you can. We have a great deal to fear in the next elections - Senator Giuliani, President Bush, and a Republican right-wing Congress. Whatever party you belong to, don't stand for this sort of censorship. Alan Internet Text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:54:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: COMPILER ERRORS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" COMPILER ERRORS For Alan Sondheim ause compiler errors. Often when you do this the cause compiler errors. Often when you do this the compiler will give you a parse error. compiler will give you a parse error. Welcome to CS50! The character '{' is called a left curly brace, or an open curly brace. The character ':}' is called a right curly brace, or a close curly brace. The character '[' is called a left square brace, or an open square brace. cause compiler errors. Often when you do this the cause compiler errors. Often when you do this the compiler will give you a parse error. compiler will give you a parse error. The character ']' is called a right square brace, or a close square brace. cause compiler errors. Often when you do this the ll c:ompiler will give you a parse error. $(INT_BIN): $(INT_OBJ) $(CC) -o $@ $(CFLAGS) $(INT_OBJ) $(LIBS) You will sometimes forget to add semi-colons ~ ~ ~ "vi_file1" 24 lines, 892 characters ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Heir of Literature Spills from Broken Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Misha Sprocket, do.not.hold.these.words.as.dear Limbs extending outward from. These eyes are your eyes, not mine? Subliminal does not sublimation account, the totality of ambiguous minions, three-pronged intervention in complacency & the next best thing since Broach desire & concede. How many probabilties open, numerous, random facination in the ragweed forest, a jungle of planatation. ex- but not above append to the end of an emotional document. Metaphors are in collusion with the conspiracy to untitle. Doctor of manifestation appears humble, bold, surrounded in a once that defies a quiet moment when we can meet in between. "Mine are minor." Restitution based on appropriated meanings that are sly or otherwise witty. Such a gaunt caricature, the rings around the eyes, I wonder why I even got up in the morning when the internet is embodied all night. A simple way to say this is. She fell toward grace, but only as an act of fruition, seven shiny apples in a window. My transparency is vibrant, but not hungry. Singularity is common even among disagreement. Parataxis is definitely not 2 taxis bound for collision, otherwise I would dispair & ask for a ride. Given the ability of all subtexts to degenerate I am seeking concordances among those Ive never met, as if to touch untouchables. metamata, fatima@madonna.prayer.cup The ultimatum pinpoints the absolute molecule of Grace. Stories before, in a coded land only a tinge of spell awoke the peacekeepers. A 1000 Arthurs, & a shovel of pardons, every moment cratered in a suspicious gnosis. Provocation by characters not provided for in the story sketch, aware of their fictive limits, stretched amid awe. The sanction to write declared hereby polyvocal, simultaneous & considered, but as usual, somewhere the text always reduces to the -emes between words. One net commandeered another, you so lonely there in siber s p a c e. Where are the murmur texts in our periphery, singularity populated Her idol cavern. Roland Barthes, grief@ruthless.sexuality the more ravaging term then perhaps the subject concerned with destruction grasps at every point but quickly exposes itself we are all caught up in the truth the leisure of bygone readings where we can hear the grain of the throat whenever I attempt without ever introducing anything the very utterance the other reading skips nothing psychoanalysis must be traversed but it is doubtless violence must be coded if it were possible to imagine we have either the course outside bliss but not necessarily deplored except like a bird who understand nothing only in total atopia ENTER YOUR STORY: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/d.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:55:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: New Michael Palmer Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" passing along some news from Avec Books --- Avec Books is looking for someone to temporarily host a web page for >Michael Palmer's _Danish Notebook_, out next week. (The pub. date is Oct. >8th.) The promotion copy and software Avec uses is for the Mac. Cydney >Chadwick will overnight a copy of the book so the cover can be scanned. She >could also try and send a giff or j.peg file of the cover as an attachment. >She can send the publication information via attachments or e-mail. If >anyone is willing to help, please backchannel Cydney at:avbks@metro.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:06:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Summi Kaipa Subject: Interlope & Summi Email and Address Change In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed All correspondence for Summi Kaipa & Interlope Magazine: Please note that this email address is on its last leg this weekend and will soon collapse. My new email is: summikaipa@earthlink.net Mail will be forwarded for some time, but please don't send anything to the other address if you can help it. Thanks. Also, snail mail: PO Box 423058 San Francisco CA 94142 or 144 Albion St San Francisco CA 94110 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:11:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: Re: an informal survey (which read how etc) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. jacket 2. bio material 3. acknowledgements/publications 4. the poem(s) published in journals I a) like, b) hate 5. I love a good index of first lines! 6. any notes, although their presence / content is prejudicial. they are like individual poem intros at readings: boring and unnecessary, "this is a _sestina_. a sestina is...", pretentious, "I mention these things you can't possibly know about...", or essentially bio material. 7. table of contents 8. first poem 9. last poem (if they're not very long -- if they are, then skip to 9.) 10. random (short) poem 11. poems that have appealing titles 12. sequentially, the short poems 13. sequentially Never the introduction: I save that for strange times I have when I must read nonfiction. Then I go through my books and read all the intros. William Matthews once told me, about poem order in books, "Oh, just have a glass of wine and put them together." That said, what seems to be demanded by editors/judges is some sort of very deliberate _narrative_, which doesn't seem to reflect how anyone actually reads a collection of poems. But then, I think this is a reflection of current emphasis on sequences, really obvious and easily read meta narratives, and the like: easy poem packages of like surface style. Regards, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:01:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Outlet Magazine--call for work Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" please feel free to pass this post on.... CALL FOR WORK -- OUTLET ------> Outlet (6) Stars Astronomy, astrology, celebrity, catastrophe, destiny, romance, navigation, wishes, fortune-telling, constellations. The passage of time. Hemispheres, seasons. Prophecy, heaven. Leonardo da Vinci/di Caprio. Submission postmark period: January 1-February 15, 2000. Replies by: April 15, 2000. The issue will appear during Summer, 2000. (We are changing our publication months from March & October to May & December.) ** Reading period & other details for Outlet (7) Heroine will be announced soon. Hints: "Your fist has seized the Goddess by her golden scruff..." -Charles Baudelaire, "To Theodore de Banville" "...it all turned out exactly as she predicted." -Gail Scott, _Heroine_ ** Pls. note: We do not accept email submissions. When first submitting, please consider a 5 page limit. Please enclose a SASE for response. Please note that submissions of chapbook manuscripts are by request only. We look forward to reading your work. Thank you. Editor: Elizabeth Treadwell Associate Editors: Sarah Anne Cox Grace Lovelace Fiction Scout: Carol Treadwell Outlet publishes poetry, fiction and criticism, loosely centered around a common theme. Please visit our website to view excerpts from previous issues, which include work by Franklin Bruno, Norma Cole, Brenda Iijima, Lily James, Tan Lin, Pamela Lu, Yedda Morrison, Laura Moriarty, Michelle Murphy, Susan Smith Nash, Stephen Ratcliffe, Camille Roy, Jocelyn Saidenberg, Kathy Lou Schultz, Liz Waldner, and many others. (We are always interested in film as well as book reviews. Please query.) Sample copies: $5/ea. Subscriptions: $10/yr (2 issues). Please make checks payable to E. Treadwell. http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy Outlet c/o Double Lucy Books P.O. Box 9013 Berkeley, California 94709 USA please feel free to pass this post on.... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 13:37:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: revolving doors in Bromige and Silliman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Is there any genetic connection between David Bromige's and Ron Silliman's revolving door imagery, in _Against Love_ and _Ketjak_? Anyone else got revolving doors? (Myself, I have some.) Just curious, Cheers, Philip Nikolayev swift brave elioteers nikolay@fas.harvard.edu still whitman behind the ears ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 13:33:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Kenning site update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Checking in to inform 'poetics' folk of the dwindling availability of Kenning's summer '99 issue: ORDER NOW [$5.00, 89 PAGES, WHAT A STEAL]. In addition: the Kenning website now features new work from Jackson Mac Low and Jesse Seldess, as well as an updated links page. The issues page has been updated as well so you can have an impression of forthcoming issues. Subscribers will be interested to note the updates on the introductory page regarding format and the new chapbook series which will comprise each summer issue. Give it a visit. www.avalon.net/~kenning Thanks: Patrick F. Durgin k e n n i n g a newsletter of contemporary poetry, poetics, and nonfiction writing http://www.avalon.net/~kenning 418 Brown St. #10, Iowa City, IA 52245, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 16:44:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: ~IS~ FORM (re: ANTIN addenda) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain i didnt edit myself terribly well in that long form/content posting i wrote of antin's long passage; "and this i dug in that he's insisting on there being overtones to "form" that aren't useful or meaningful for him and instead talking about these things as "structure" or the "organization of function" ---- that is, i like the distinction, but i've heard plenty of folks ~use~ form in this way, as a dynamic rather than static "shape-like" principle" and that's a bit muddled --- the distinction, maybe much the same that olson and creeley were after (?) --- seems to be between "form" as static statement of shape or enumeration of requisites in the way that one cd for a sonnet say that, at least, it needed 14 lines (even this isnt crucial perhaps, but for the sake of this discussion...) ---- antin sees "form" as being primarily bound up with these sorts of considerations and his interest is in ~other~ things (which is what isnt quite clear in my original posting) having to do with the organization of function within the structure of the the art work (be it poetry, painting, whatever) that was probably clear to most, but in case i bungled it for anyone thru my inexactitude... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 16:51:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: INDIANA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - INDIANA oh julu i will kill you would you really? would you really? ohway ulujay iway illway illkay youay oh jennifer this is so lovely killing me is it really? is it really? ohway enniferjay isthay isway osay ovelylay illingkay emay oh oh julu ohway ohway ulujay away away, oh juluay away away, oh juluay please you will make me so fun please you will make me so fun will you really? will you really? oh julu i jennifer will so fun make you you do make me! you do make me! un para o pkttolkx corr yu lat sgqk eua oh thank you jennifer thank you thank you lovely! thank you lovely! ib nbuhe sio dyhhczyl nbuhe sio ah ah oh oh oh bash: ah: command not found goodbye my very dearest | oo .ooo| | oo o.ooo| | oo o.ooo| | oo .o | | oo. o | | oooo. o| | oo .o o| | o . | | oo o.o o| | oooo. o| | o . | |ooo .oo | | oo .o o| | ooo . o | | oooo. o| | o . | | oo .o | | oo .o o|| oo . o| | ooo . o | | oo .o o| | ooo . oo| | ooo .o | | o. o | goodbye| oo .ooo| | oo o.ooo| | oo o.ooo| | oo . o | | oo . o | | oooo. o| | oo.o o| | o. o | farewell my lovely! farewell my lovely! please you will make me so fun please you will make me so fun will you really? will you really? In INDIANA it was recently VOTED that ALL RAILROAD TRAINS and ALL TELEPHONE POLES and SOME BUILDINGS will be PLACED ON THEIR SIDES permanently. Thus the TRAINS have their WHEELS by convention on THEIR RIGHT-HAND-SIDE, against thin RAILS held VERTICALLY into PLACE. Furthermore, SMALL CARRIAGES POSSESSING WHEELS are permit- ted BENEATH THE SIDEWAYS CARS AND ENGINES to enable them to MOVE ABOUT THE LANDSCAPE in SUCH A CONDITION. THE SAME does NOT hold true for ALL BUILDINGS but SOME BUILDINGS, which, on their SIDE, may have BOTH WINDOWS AND DOORS OPENING IN- TO THE EARTH BELOW, as well as OTHER WINDOWS AND DOORS OPENING ONTO THE SKY ABOVE, as well as STILL OTHER WINDOWS AND DOORS OP- EN ON TWO SIDES for EASY EGRESS AND EXIT, as well as ENTRANCE. As for the TELEPHONE POLES, ALL OF WHICH are ON THEIR SIDES, there should be PLACED UPON THEM, WARNINGS FOR CHLDREN, AGAINST the TOUCHING of such wires AS THEY NOW CARRY, EASILY LAID UPON THE EARTH. Outtages MAY OCCUR. __________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 21:54:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Lipstick? Eleven? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lipstick? Eleven? -or- What the hell is the name of that magazine anyway? Let me hereby settle the arguments, family feuds, and bets I know you've been placing: The name of the magazine is Lipstick Eleven. As Tisa Bryant so astutely pointed out at tonight's Small Press Traffic Soiree in San Francisco, there is a "No. 1" printed on the spine of our first issue. Soon there will be a "No. 2'" and then after that "No. 3" etc. but it will always be Eleven, which means of course that there will one day be a Lipstick Eleven 11, and won't we all cry for joy then? (I know I will). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 22:20:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: View from the front: The Small Press Traffic soiree Comments: cc: Louis Chude-Sokei , sean_dugan@infoworld.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Warning: This is an eyewitness, first-person account and therefore inherently unreliable. I attended the SPT soiree at New College in San Francisco this evening. (It was nearly an all-day affair.) I arrived a few minutes after 6:00 p.m. to assume my shift as door greeter/ticket taker-seller gal. My role was to take people's money and when they asked me questions, to immediately repeat the question in their presence to someone who might actually know the answer to the question. I was involved in a spirited conversation with giovanni singleton and Peter Neufeld, Nick from SPT, and later Mary Margaret Sloan, and I was soon "shushed": you know, "can you keep it down for god's sake there's an auction going on next door" and apparently you need a lot of quiet for an auction. I know because I held in my very own hand the tuft from the left side of Samuel Delany's 11-year-old beard (with a personal affidavit signed by Delany himself) which Taylor Brady secured at the SPT auction -- and you don't want someone outbidding you on something like that because you can't hear! I mean, it would be really heartbreaking. (You go Taylor boy.) Later, Kevin Killian's play "Three On a Match" was staged to the enjoyment of all. I simply can't list here all the amazing performances, but will highlight the aforementioned Sloan's hilarious performance as a thwarted Olympic figure skater come murderer. I think she missed a calling, or maybe she is finding one now. Everyone did a very fine job, and then the local band "Plain" played and these guys are really talented -- all of them also appeared in Kevin's play. Then I carried off the raffle prizes which loads of people from my office won (while I won nothing!) because Doug Powell, who works at the same company as me, sold loads of tickets at work. Good job! And I'm sure I will get the prizes to those who really won them, uh, right away . . . Congratulations to everyone who worked hard to plan and execute the soiree, and I hope it brought in loads of cash for SPT. Hugs & Kisses, Kathy Lou ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 23:35:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: New @ Duration Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New work at Duration Press: poems by Eleni Sikelianos, Michelle Murphy, Emmanuel Hocquard (translated by Rosmarie Waldrop), & Rosmarie Waldrop _Mace Hill Remap_, by Norma Cole @ our out of print book archive & the introduction of Dérive, our new e-chapbook series with _Retinal Echo_, by Guy Bennett. http://www.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 06:41:28 -0400 Reply-To: Robert Freedman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Freedman Subject: Poetry Textbook/Language Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Until my retirement I was an acquisitions librarian for a public library, and I was often gently teased for subverting the collection with too many poetry books. Among these books were many "how-to" books for a general audience and some books that were probably designed as texts for high-school and college creative writing courses. I was pleasantly surprised recently to come across the book, "Poetry Writing : Theme and Variations," by David Starkey, NTC/Contemporary Publishing Group, c2000. Each brief chapter presents models of types of poems, discusses them, and asks the student to try writing that type of poem. Now to what I found unique: Chapter 40, Rearranging Memory, presents three poems, one by Lyn Hejinian and the others by students. Still another chapter, Playful Piracy, includes a poem by Charles Bernstein in which lines by Swinburne are rearranged. John Cage is represented in a chapter on puzzle poems. I don't have the expertise to evaluate the text, but I thought that the book might be worth looking at given its attempt to present alternatives. The rest of the text is pretty much occupied by "the usual suspects," many of whom are, nevertheless, favorites of mine. Hope this is of interest to someone. Bob Freedman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 05:37:35 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit need an i-net address for laura wright please or laura e-ml me! thanks todd baron remap readers ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:42:40 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hazel Smith Subject: hypermedia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some of you who are interested in hypertext/hypermedia might want to look at my latest effort, Intertwingling, a collaboration with Roger Dean at http://dingo.vut.edu.au/%7Earts/cals/intert/interstart.htm. It is part of the Overland Express site http://www.overlandexpress.org/. The previous hypermedia work, Wordstuffs: The City and the Body, which I posted notice of to this list sometime ago, has now has now moved from the Australian Film Commission site to the Australian Broadsacting site at a new address: http://stuff-art.abc.net.au/stuff98/10.htm Hazel Hazel Smith School of English University of New South Wales Sydney 2052 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 07:53:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: trAce Online Writing Community MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ++++++ trAce Online Writing Community at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk is going strong at the moment; I'd urge you to join (which takes almost no time and costs nothing). The following are the ongoing conferences (some of which are new) - in addition to these, you can add to the loveandwar project by going to http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm - NEW! Writing & Psychology (1) Teaching & Presenting the Web (2) trAce Chat Meetings (2) Information for New Members (17) Introduce Yourself Here (227) Avatar (73) Cyborg-Tech (31) Experimental (74) Love-War (51) Programming & Writing (30) Project Announcements (32) Writing & Politics (57) Writing Workshop (184) Poetry (179) Building Creative Community (29) Opinion (6) General (111) Help & Advice (49) MOO Advice (34) Technical Forum (41) Small Ads (17) The trAce website (7) Riding the Meridian (2) The conferences are very active; I'd urge you to participate, or at least take a look at the contents. I've been moderating a number of them, in- cluding Experimental, Programming & Writing, Writing & Politics, Love-War (about the project), Avatar, Cyborg-Tech, and we've just opened up Writ- ing & Psychology. I also want to thank everyone who has already been participating - the writing and discussions have been wonderful - Alan Internet Text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:35:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Ann Lauterbach on WriteNet Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII After a month-long hiatus, the WriteNet poet interview series is back. This month, Ann Lauterbach reads her poem "On (Open)" from her book _On A Stair_, and talks about poetry as magic and the fragmented nature of experience. To read the interview, go to http://www.writenet.org/poetschat/poetschat_alauterbach.html Also, if you have been enjoying these series, I'd really appreciate it if you could "spread the word" as it were and let people outside the poetics list know about it. Thanks. --daniel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:51:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: Washington Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Washington Review Online website "literature and the arts, Washington, DC and elsewhere" has moved to www.washingtonreview.com It has been extensively updated with material from the past two years' print issues and features an upublished interview with hypertext fiction writer Stuart Moulthrop, as well as color photos of the fashion world by Lucien Perkins. The website contains avant-guard poetry by writers from all over the country, plus fiction, interviews, photographs, and reviews of art, theater, music and new media. Please update your bookmarks and links, the old site will only be around for ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:03:03 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sylvester Pollet Subject: NPF Conference Call for Papers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Call for Papers The Opening of the Field: A Conference on North American Poetry in the 1960s University of Maine Orono, Maine June 28-July 2, 2000 The National Poetry Foundation invites paper and panel proposals for a conference on North American poetry of the 1960s. Proposals are welcome on writers of previous generations whose literary careers extended into the 1960s, such as Louis Zukofsky, George Oppen, Robert Lowell, Charles Olson, Anne Sexton, Elizabeth Bishop, Lorine Niedecker, etc.; on poets of literary movements that climaxed in the 1960s, including the Beat, Black Mountain, San Francisco Renaissance, and New York schools; on women poets and poets of color, who began to speak with a new confidence during this decade; and on new literary moments that began to define themselves in this period, such as the ethnopoetic movement and language-centered writing. Papers are also invited on the general cultural background of the period, including such themes as the tensions between "academic" poetry and various attempts to bring poetry into the lives of people "in the streets"; the relationship of poetry and popular culture, including rock music; and the role of poetry in the anti-war movement. As the title of the conference suggests, we invite proposals on Canadian as well as on American poetry in the 1960s. The conference will begin on Wednesday evening, June 28, and will conclude shortly after noon on Sunday, July 2. Accommodations and meals will be available at a reasonable rate in university residence halls. Registration will be $85, with a reduced rate of $60 for graduate students. Confirmed participants as of October 1, 1999, include Marjorie Perloff, Michael Davidson, Joan Retallack, Lorenzo Thomas, Rosmarie Waldrop, Keith Waldrop, Maria Damon, Barrett Watten, Lynn Keller, Peter Middleton, and Ron Silliman. Send one-page abstracts before February 1, 2000, to Burton Hatlen Director, National Poetry Foundation Room 304 5752 Neville Hall, University of Maine Orono, ME 04469-5752 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:11:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Barque Website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Somebody in England asked me to post this... ________________________________________________________________ Barque Press now has a website. Run up the counter at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/2554 With details of new books by British poets and some slightly older ones by some American poets. John Wilkinson, J.H. Prynne, Kristin Prevallet, Jordan Davis, Keston Sutherland, Andrea Brady, Peter Manson et al. Plus the journal QUID: prose recons from Drew Milne, Douglas Oliver, David Hess, Andrea Brady, Mike Sperlinger, poems out of Brian Kim Stefans, John Wilkinson, Tim Morris, others. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:00:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: 11-11, lipstick...? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Kathy Lou wrote; "which means of course that there will one day be a Lipstick Eleven 11, and won't we all cry for joy then? (I know I will)." i'm familiar with a venerable dope smoking tradition wherein whenever the clock reads 11:11, it's time to toke ---- now as i understand this tradition started in a car with a broken clock which cd with a slight touch, make the shuft from 11:10 to 11:11 not that i've ever beeen in that car, or truck or whatever nor am i sanctioning etc etc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:20:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: re revolving doors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" the poem "Revolving Door" with which my selected, _Desire_,(1988), opens, was written in 1961* and was first published in a book, _The Gathering_ , in 1965. It was published again in an early selected, _Ten Years in the Making_ , in 1973. There are slight differences between the earlier verions, and the 1987 version. * the table of contents of _10 years_ states that this poem was written in 1964. I believe this to be incorrect; I must have meant re-written. I have a clear recollection of writing this poem before I left Vancouver (1962), and of its being published thenaobuts in a magazine...but which, I can't recall. The term "revolving door" (hired n fired, biz world), was not in use in those years. It is not a linguistic resource then, so much as a 3-dimensional one, that prompts it : the actual object in the 4th dimension of time. Whether Ron derived it from my work strikes me as moot. There are revolving doors everywhere, plus which I believe by the time of _Ketjak_ 's being written, the biz term had currency. That notwithstanding, I have always been encouraged by this rime between Ron's quite different writing, and mine. . db ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:11:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Hoa Nguyen Student Poetry Workshop on WriteNet Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Teachers & Writers Collaborative is proud to feature the second on-line workshop led by poet Hoa Nguyen of Austin, Texas. Nine student writers from around the country are participating this time around. Adapt Hoa's writing exercises for your own students, and learn how to critique student poetry by reading Hoa's responses on the forum page. These particular workshop respondents will begin their project by writing poems based on Exercise 11. Find out more about the resident writer on the info page, or read student writing and responses on the forum page. Feel free to use all the exercises listed on this page in your classrooms. To view the pages, go to http://www.writenet.org/virtualpoetrywrkshp.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:48:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Booglit #6: Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Now available: Booglit #6: Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival David Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher ISSN 1085-4800 36 pages, + 4-page, 4-color wrap, $10 $5 from each issue goes to Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! (LCK!), a nonprofit community-based organization. Postpaid for list members. Checks payable to: Booglit 351 W.24th Street Apt. 19E New York, NY 10011-1510 email inquiries: info@booglit.com Commissioned by LCK for this year’s festival. Cover photograph of Jack Kerouac at the Staten Island Ferry Terminal by Allen Ginsberg. Back cover poem/collage by Wendy Kramer. Features: •Robert Creeley section: an annotated interview on his relationship with Kerouac, conducted by Michael Basinski--assistant curator of the Poetry/Rare Books collection at SUNY-Buffalo; coverage of the New York opening of "In Company: Robert Creeley’s Collaborations”; and a review of Creeley’s newest collaboration, with the photographer Elsa Dorfman, En Famille (Granary Press, 1999). •David Amram section: an interview of Kerouac’s musical partner by Basinski and Amram’s essay "Collaborating with Kerouac." •Douglas Brinkley, Kerouac’s official biographer, with an introductory essay to the author’s unpublished "Washington D.C. Blues.” •Poetry from ex-White Panther Party leader and MC-5 manager John Sinclair (with art by Madeline Hope Arthurs); Wild at Heart author and screenwriter Barry Gifford; Coffee House Press author Eliot Katz; and Long Shot magazine editor Danny Shot w/Herschel Silverman. Plus more poetry and and Beat audio and printed matter reviews. Also available in lettered limited editions, signed by Creeley, Amram, Sinclair, Brinkley, Katz, Shot, and other contributors, and a CD of sonic music by Emil Beaulieu composed and released for this project. $25 saddle-stapled lettered AA to ZZ; $85 bound on boards, lettered A to Z. Be Good, David Kirschenbaum ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:47:29 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: View from the front: The Small Press Traffic soiree Kathy, I believe it was Ms. Tanya Hollis who scored the snip of Chip's beard.... I remember being shocked and delighted that she bid on something described as being for fetishists....maybe they'll share, or (gasp!) maybe it is Tanya who's the beard for Taylor's bent....hmmm. Tisa 
Warning: This is an eyewitness, first-person account and therefore
inherently unreliable.

I attended the SPT soiree at New College in San Francisco this evening. (It
was nearly an all-day affair.) I arrived a few minutes after 6:00 p.m. to
assume my shift as door greeter/ticket taker-seller gal. My role was to take
people's money and when they asked me questions, to immediately repeat the
question in their presence to someone who might actually know the answer to
the question.

I was involved in a spirited conversation with giovanni singleton and Peter
Neufeld, Nick from SPT, and later Mary Margaret Sloan, and I was soon
"shushed": you know, "can you keep it down for god's sake there's an auction
going on next door" and apparently you need a lot of quiet for an auction.

I know because I held in my very own hand the tuft from the left side of
Samuel Delany's 11-year-old beard (with a personal affidavit signed by
Delany himself) which Taylor Brady secured at the SPT auction -- and you
don't want someone outbidding you on something like that because you can't
hear! I mean, it would be really heartbreaking. (You go Taylor boy.)

Later, Kevin Killian's play "Three On a Match" was staged to the enjoyment
of all. I simply can't list here all the amazing performances, but will
highlight the aforementioned Sloan's hilarious performance as a thwarted
Olympic figure skater come murderer. I think she missed a calling, or maybe
she is finding one now. Everyone did a very fine job, and then the local
band "Plain" played and these guys are really talented -- all of them also
appeared in Kevin's play.

Then I carried off the raffle prizes which loads of people from my office
won (while I won nothing!) because Doug Powell, who works at the same
company as me, sold loads of tickets at work. Good job! And I'm sure I will
get the prizes to those who really won them, uh, right away . . .

Congratulations to everyone who worked hard to plan and execute the soiree,
and I hope it brought in loads of cash for SPT.

Hugs & Kisses,
Kathy Lou

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Kathy Lou Schultz
Editor & Publisher
Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press
www.duckpress.org

42 Clayton Street  San Francisco, CA  94117-1110
========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:52:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: this just in Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" new issue of _Callaloo_ has special sections on Will Alexander and Lorenzo Thomas -- poems, interviews, criticism -- good stuff -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:47:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: News Items for ELANewsletter Comments: cc: elan_editor@webdelsol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The WDS ELANewsletter is available to members on this listserv for news posts. Write editor, Liana Scalletar, elan_editor@webdelsol.com, and request space in the upcoming newsletter issue due out in a few weeks, and thereafter. The blurbing is no charge. ELAN reaches over 3000 at this time. Note: we do not pitch individual works, but rather report on events, happenings, literary news of note, etc. MN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:18:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katie Degentesh Subject: 9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" OCTOBER 14, 1999, 7:30 PM at the ADOBE BOOKSHOP 9x9 INDUSTRIES returns to PRESENT AN EVENING OF BLANKETY BLANKETY BLANK WITH THE SOMETHING SOMETHINGS BUT FIRST: Michael Disend, screenwriter, performer, film actor, and professional hypnotist, will read from a work in progress. Author of the classic Sixties novel STOMPING THE GOYIM, which has been called "some of the great writing of the century" and will soon be reprinted by Sun and Moon Press, Disend lives in San Francisco. AND THEN (and THEN and THEN and THEN): The hyperbolic adjective trio, Todd Barker, Paul Spencer, and Felix Macnee, will perform the (far, far) above-titled work. Bring your fever-pitch unction and dangling participles. There will be a certain amount of danger. Todd Barker holds a Masters of Fine Arts degree from the California College of Arts and Crafts, generally in his left hand. He has performed and exhibited widely, in venues such as The Lab and the Gorgonzola Peach Blintz. Paul Spencer, currently completing a degree in painting at the San Francisco Art Institute, chips his canvas with a whimsical mannerist futon and piles his words on with advanced cat pressure. Felix Macnee has snaggled teeth, a pork pie hat, and deals the cards with two broken hands. He has written a play starring green beans. Michael Disend is a burning wick. His hair holds conversations with Sugar Ray Robinson, and a stumbling egg cream boy he is. I have seen him type up Martin Chuzzlewit with one finger. 9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9 1999 (NINETEEN NINETY (NINE BY NINE) INDUSTRIES) 199X9 9X9 INDUSTRIES http://www.paraffin.org/nine/ nine@paraffin.org GIVE US YOUR TIRED, YOUR POOR, YOUR THURSDAY ASSES YEARNING TO SEE PERFORMANCES FOR FREE 9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:50:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: Ripostes to Jameson on Perelman? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm trying to assemble a *complete* list of responses to Jameson's attack (in _Postmodernism, Or..._) on Perelman's poem "China." Or, of critiques of Jameson that touch explicitly on those passages in Jameson dealing with the poem. All help backch or frontch appreciated. Thanks Brian Lennon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:21:21 -0700 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: New Vispo Audio: Paul McKinnon's "Wake Up and Smell the Bus Depot" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NEW AT VISPO AUDIO: PAUL MCKINNON'S "WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BUS DEPOT" http://www.vispo.com/audio A stand-up travelogue featuring burning bridges, racial tension, road food, bad luck, strange sex, and the ghost of Jack Kerouac. Recorded at Mocambopo in Victoria, BC. I was at the performance of this piece. It was a memorable evening, treated as we were to a performance by Paul of this humorous and telling travelogue through three countries from Mexico to Vancouver. Related travelogue audio and other writing by Paul is at The Nepenthe Journal: http://www.freespeech.org/tumbleweed/radio.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:31:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: small press publications announcements deadline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The deadline for this week's Small Press publications announcements page @ Duration Press is this Friday. All publishers who wish to have their publications listed, please send all appropriate information, such as titles, authors, prices, contact / ordering information, web addresses, & short descriptions to jerrold@durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:44:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jorge Guitart Subject: looking for Lisa Samuels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Lisa, please get in touch with me by e-mail. Thanks. jg ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:32:28 +0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fredrik Hertzberg LIT Subject: Oidentifierade verbala objekt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Just a note to say that last week in Stockholm I found a new publication called OED: Oidentifierade verbala objekt, which includes translations of Charles Bernstein's Artifice essay, his A Defence of Poetry, an extract from Perloff's Radical Artifice, poetry by Hannah Weiner, together with other stuff (by Rosmarie Waldrop,Julien Blaine, Emmanuel Hocquard, Pierre Alferi, etc). Finally something's cooking up here. If anyone's intersted their address is OEI, Box 311 20, 400 32 Göteborg (Gothenburg), Sweden. Fred ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:47:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: boredom, currency MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The text is (should be) that uninhibited person, non-site): anachronic subject, adrift At least some examples? of an epoch, of a character? word for word? denote a class notion? another edge, mobile, bleak? the institutions of text? but the opposite? doesn't every narrative lead to Oedipus? an anagram of the body? my reader's pleasure? the sentence is a body? all this verbal display? the very materiality of that once existed? how can we read criticism? boredom of all narratives? Pry Luz, pray.for.light such are the hardships everywhere in the garden your sweat the divine shaman by the corner beneath dawn those whirring walls of the festival the hill talks of nonsense let the rain take off and village ditties are here busy at raising silkworms in the field picking melons this crooked road your upset clings to my gown on and on over the jumbled hills Buddha is everything rejoice in the slanting flowers for what you are is the creatures of creation halfway up the mountain facing scars from former years this crooked road sorrow is blown by a flute and Buddha is everything don't mistake the wasted days twisting in the azure air opposite me turn towards you for I fear at random so loving their fall so loving their fall hundreds cannot tell the deep-hidden dotted the peach-paths ashamed that the traveler has got enough for you to get drunk still wrapped in private gauze for her dress a shivering drink before going home so its fertilty will reimburse you and the little one will brush noisily like the wind tomorrow we'll go Danshi Mureite, suizeki@scholar.rock Your sisters must all stay home At night we all sleep together Please show me the house Was it an empty dream? Moon meant that he would be waiting that love & lust inspire in men He was now growing far too fond of her such delicacy blooming in the thicket snow had fallen heavily and piled up the days went by, were no longer mine to control I'll kill you for your pains foreheads who must be peeping with interest floating along thinking of their own inevitable end nobody could hear your nonsense wretched though the place looks much stock in the words of the diviner but would desire to converse with such a woman engender frivilous thoughts while I sat in a meditation hall everything is dust & reflected in the pond I gathered all the priests with my own hand he could not deny the blind intoxicating pleasure I was startled & scurried for shelter but we can forget our misery nervously I could not keep back my tears write now: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/a.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:51:54 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: La Jolla Beyond Babel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This sounds like a great event. It even includes Charles Bernstein, Ron ---------------------- BEYOND BABEL Common Language, Common Differences, Common Ground Western Humanities Alliance - 18th Annual Conference UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SAN DIEGO October, 14-15-16, 1999 http://literature.ucsd.edu/babelschedule.html Conference access is free and open to everyone --------------------------------------- Opening of the Conference THURSDAY OCTOBER 14 4:00-5:30 PM Price Center Ballroom Welcome - Frantisek Deak, Dean, Arts and Humanities - Simon Williams, Director, Western Humanties Alliance - Marcel Henaff, Conference Organizer Keynote Address: DOUGLAS HOFSTADTER, Cognitive Science, Indiana University "Human Cognition as a Blur of Analogy and Blending" ----------------------------------- Areas of discussion: 1. Hybridization of Cultures / Cultures of Hybridization 2. Crossing of Disciplines and of Models of Knowledge 3. Blending of Artistic Forms 4. Integration of Cognitive Processes. ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------- FRIDAY, OCTOBER 15 9:00 - 10:30 - Panels: Postmodern Hybridity: the Politics and Poetics of Culture [Area 1] Colonialism and Shifting Alliances [Area 1] Community and The Language of Babel [Area 2] Logics of Interdisciplinary Inquiry [Area 2] 11:00 - 12:30 - PLENARY SESSION [area 1] Speaker: Aihwa ONG, Anthropology, UC Berkeley "Questions of Globalization" 2:00-3:30 PM - Panels: Negotiating Communities as Hybrids [Area 1] Crossing Space and Time [Area 2] Emotions, Analogies and Disanalogies [Area 2/3] Extended Range Poetries [Area 3] 4:00-5:50 PM - PLENARY SESSION [area 2] Speaker: Paul RABINOW, Anthropology, UC Berkeley "Biopolitics Today" 6:00 PM SPACED OUT: SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA VERNACULAR An Exhibition of Works About Space in Southern California Curated by: Steve Ausbury and Sarah Lewison Opening Reception/Party: Friday, October 15 at 6:00 PM Herbert Marcuse Student Gallery, right side of Russell Ln. off Gilman Dr. --------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- SATURDAY, OCTOBER. 16 9:00 - 10:30 AM - Panels: Identity and Narratives, Imaging Culture [Area 1] Nation, Center and Margins [Area 1] Spaces of Theater [Area 3] Contemporary Art Mixes [Area 3] Conceptual Blending [Area 4] 11:00 - 12:30 - PLENARY SESSION [area 3] Speaker: Charles BERNSTEIN, English and Writing, SUNY Buffalo "The Art of Immemorability" 2:00 - 3:30 PM - Panels: Islam and Modernity [Area 1] Japanese Hybridizations [Area 1] Knowing and Imagining [Area 2] Hybridization and Vernaculars in Music [Area 3] Cognitive Strategies [Area 4] 4:00 - 5:30 PM - PLENARY SESSION [area 4] Speaker: Mark TURNER, English and Cognitive Science, U of Maryland "The Forbidden Fruit: the Role of Conceptual Integration in Literary and Artistic Creativity" ----------------------------------------- Conference Organizer: Marcel Henaff, UCSD Planning Committee: David Antin, Visual Arts, UCSD; Gilles Fauconnier, Cognitive Sciences, UCSD; Andrew Feenberg, Philosophy, SDSU; Douglas White, Anthropology, UCI Conference Manager: Lucinda Rubio Information: Christa Beran cberan@ucsd.edu or fax 858-534 8686 For a complete list of panelists, discussants and other information (maps, hotels etc) see our website: http://literature.ucsd.edu/babelschedule.html Marcel Henaff UCSD-0410 La Jolla, CA 92093 Marcel Henaff UCSD-0410 La Jolla, CA 92093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:37:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: cybele overhears "I'm tired of poetry" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roland Barthes, grief@ruthless.sexuality the more ravaging term the perhaps the subject concerned with destruction grasps at every point but quickly exposes itself we are all caught up in the truth the leisure of bygone readings where we can hear the grain of the throat whenever I attempt without ever introducing anything the very utterance the other reading skips nothing psychoanalysis must be traversed but it is doubtless violence must be coded if it were possible to imagine we have either the course outside bliss but not necessarily deplored except like a bird who understand nothing only in total atopia Vagina Dentata, writer@bloodbath.typewriter Since we halved the hairpin Young travelers coming here I wipe my tears Obliterated and buried Why should one care? Writhing upwards Belongs to another time Ten thousand noises die down I recall those years My shadow falls at random I've known the tramp I'll never fall behind Choked by feeling Bells ring in evening sky My sorrow resembles Family stripped clean This charming beauty Keep pace with ambition Share a farewell cup In a frozen land On her new robe Whip tucked in her sleeve And showers affection as if We must beg for poverty Not too much wine When he wakes up Do we ever wake Who brings war I'm tired of poetry daphne mezereum, song@form.meant In both of the insertions of poetic text that for greater sonority, inspite of its name, magic bullets which never miss their mark, thru a pact with the spirits of hell, such as observance of enharmonic equivalents, executed by a leading couple, a sign indicating awe of nature near the end of life. a great flowering of songs to listen intelligently to has a considerable wider device to dampen sound, to change the best-known janizary music associated with famous clowns, often in service of the story. who wishes to marry a long contorted technique throughout. the contours of a forest anticipates the music after a period of captivity. optional dances on which a swan swims majestically is borrowed from a nearby mesmorizing rule. accidental music appeared to be exuberant melancholy. little oulipo, curious digital artifact impossible everything we do to throat before we if we understand everything ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:32:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Lost Japan for Me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = Lost Japan for Me Lost Japan Japan New and Old Bygone Days in Old Japan Japan, A Glimpse into the Past Japan - Signs - immersed - floor-level, the turning - slates of peoples - targeting and inverted - decathecting in the bushido zone - looking in towards interior perfections - closed faces and facades - operatives of the _brush-stroke_ - if the point/node characterizes the west, the line characterizes japan - kami linkages - the darkness of the city in my for- eign night - detailing and intervaling, spacings - mono no aware - wabi and sabi - the interior forlorn - Japan, Land of Many Contrasts Mysterious Japan Japan, from Geisha to Gaijin signs determinative of signs, foreign to me, illegible, _watching_ signs immersed in a world of signs floor-level, the turning, flatness of spaces, turning everywhere slates of peoples passing by, peripheral glances, blanked exteriors targeting and inverted, out of the corner of their eyes, gaijin naked decathecting in the bushido zone, detumescence, disconnected looking in towards interior perfections, perfect family-life, burakumin closed faces and facades, i was never there, lintels, portals operatives of the brush-stroke, the inscription of the real point and line, the view-given garden, turned and widening line kami linkages, everywhere intensities, confabulations of millennia, ages darkness of the city, gaijin bar to sidewalk to jinja to neon river, night detailing, intervals and spaces, the ornamental flow, edge intensity mono no aware, my last weeks, last night long walk past the zen temple wabi and sabi, this body, moments of despair and worn sailings In the Streets of Old Japan Japan, Land of Cherry-Blossoms Japan, Land of the Cherry-Blossom Japanese Wonders and Beauties on the night of the interior forlorn, i have never finished with japan, it's an open wound, a space in consciousness, a flood, olden days in japan, images impenetrable, the gulf absolute, the rupture, and division of new and old, division of here and there Arts and Crafts of Old Japan Japan through the Eyes of Masterless Samurai Japan, Land of the Rising Sun The Japanese Miracle The Japanese Experience Art and Life in Old Japan Japan Inside and Out it's what i remember, every detail of the 7-11 store-shelves, walking be- hind hakozaki shrine, details which reappear in dreams, the second-hand shop on the corner and its shogi sets, more and more lists, the children staring at me yelling back 'baka baka' Ghosts and Tales in Old Japan Japanese Hobgoblins Tengu? No Thank you! In Old Japan Japan through Sumo Life and Loves of the Ancient Japanese Oh! Japan! i can't assimilate the transformation, the kanji disappeared, certain paintings, glances, edges of things, always felt myself at odds with each and every gaijin, o third country of the spirit, it's what i remember, i'm dreadfully afraid of reconstitution, making it up as i go along, the things themselves retreated into algorithms for reconstruction, right or wrong, 'my japanese days,' 'my time in japan,' as well as more personal material intertwined, inseparable, confusioned, contusion Representation and Misrecognition in Old Japan Multicultural Exegesis in Genji's Heian Japan The Presuppositions of the Myth of Japanese Homogeneity haunted with an incontrovertible knot set in my maw my brainstem my hole, kabuki samurai misrecognitions, never made it to the theater, parks wet with leaves, moats, stone stupas, my gaijin head smashed among them as i leapt out of the country of noh truth as literal as possible Japan Like a Native Japan from the Air Japanese Arts and Crafts The Japanese Way of Life The Japanese Response to the West Japanese Aircraft Popular Arts of Japan A Popular History of Japan Japanese Fairy-Tales Japanese Comic Fun Japan through Popular Manga Pop-Pop Japan Japanese Amusement Nighttime Japan Nikuko's Popular Imagery of Japan I take you Nakasu-Kawabata Japan Sexuality in Old Japan Japan through Western Eyes Gone Native in Japan ___________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:34:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: a little self promotion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Listers, I wanted to announce the quite curious fact that I have two (old) poems in the new Poetry Desk Calendar 2000 (available at a mega-chain near you). Most of the calendar days are occupied by dead people, so I'm somewhere between Blake and (the dread) Joyce Kilmer. Needless to say, we're a pretty ecclectic group! Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:12:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Lauterbach sound on WriteNet Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the sound file of Ann Lauterbach reading "On (Open)" wasn't linked correctly -- now it is -- to hear Ann L. read (with beeps of low-battery phone in background and wonderful hiss), go to http://www.writenet.org/poetschat/poetschat_alauterbach.html --daniel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:20:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: View from the front: The Small Press Traffic soiree In-Reply-To: <199910042147.OAA67753@mail1.sirius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It being nearly impossible for me to grow a beard myself, I've always held the hirsute facial appendages enthralling in others. Thus the true motive for my avowed "great pleasure" in introducing David Bromige during the group reading at the same event. (Though, it's true, I have as much admiration for his work as for his beard - and the same might be said of Delany). So mine is a beardward bent that needs no beard for its bending. Tanya, of course, has her own "bent" reasons to dig a translucent plastic envelope full of hair... Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Tisa Bryant Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 2:47 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: View from the front: The Small Press Traffic soiree Kathy, I believe it was Ms. Tanya Hollis who scored the snip of Chip's beard.... I remember being shocked and delighted that she bid on something described as being for fetishists....maybe they'll share, or (gasp!) maybe it is Tanya who's the beard for Taylor's bent....hmmm. Tisa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:04:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Grant Jenkins Subject: Re: Ripostes to Jameson on Perelman? In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19990922172159.008ce860@imap.columbia.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Brian, If you haven't seen it already, George Hartley in Textual Politics has a great reading of Jameson's reading of Perelman. Grant ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:58:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: OVO, stockholm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maybe it's obvious to all, but if not, you will welcome the news that Oidentifieriade verbala objekt is an unidentified verbal object, presumably something that doesnt exist that everybody's read or heard of (although isnt it rather, in this case, something that does exist that nobody has seen or read of, in sweden that is, until now? leastwise in the minds of the editors?). It must be quite clear to non-swedish readers, except for the O, which has the function of un, but looks as though an irish person had blundered into the act. David ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:56:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: Casual Screed, part 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You Screw Ups, Wait Up! the favourite toy releases the idea of generosity. merely being in that presence, people look for the ice to melt. maybe it won't, these winters are persistent. such is human devotion, even when the faces are wrong. still, maybe generosity is exactly the thing that could uncage the exacting beast needed for the situation. well first, accept that a situation exists. thoroughly riveting dynamics tell us that a possible intercourse shows on the map. maybe so, who bothers to look? just jump to the idea that something 's here. and it's just us, people of the neighbourhood. the neighbourhood doesn't have all its elements in working order, but we can try with what we' ve got. oh dear, that's a hopeful note, and hope is just one more hunk of wood floating down stream. the point is the idea of generosity, and how generosity could eradicate. well, what should it eradicate? what needs rectifying, what needs changing? dilemmas are everywhere, binary exclusions. try the door marked Generosity and see if anyone is there. because it's a person who must carry it, Generosity doesn't fall with the rain. we can look at the earth and all its whatever but, no, forget that, human is everything. your process, my process, something concerted. it's chemistry, or the tale of documentation, or a close kept secret molded for reasonable usage. what? just more talk? the heroes determine the features of the show. the favourite toy releases the idea of generosity. try the door marked Quickly. time has bent itself into all sorts of shapes, whether you were aware or not. me, I'm pretending to be noble so that Generosity (still drunk with power) will stumble closer. it's a game of waiting and wandering and wearing the right clothes. clean underwear or no underwear, as if this were a principle: who cares, the map exists, the song is known, the facts are clear and Generosity has the floor. believe it. or, you know, forget about it all, work another territory. the work has been described, we don't need the experts telling us more. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:59:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: Casual Screed, part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcomed Grant From Poetry Heaven the process can be faked. likeliness fools many people. advice is just another hazard in the road. Poetry has no point, and never scores a run. never in possibility, only thrust to the bottom and left to accrue notions from the most usual of places. anyone can make Poetry, it's a big trick. it' s a scam, a racket, a deadbeat dad in Cayman Island hideaway sticking with the coconuts and verisimilitudes. Poetry is the gunk you don't bother to scrape from your shoes, and anyone can make it. it has the benefit of filling in holes. it sings because the gun's jammed in the ribs. don't shoot Poetry, we need it. kill me, not Poetry. Poetry has too much to offer. Poetry has vision, and pieces of snakes and careerist oblations. Poetry is from the stars and made for intense picnics. Poetry is political the same way ice cream is, mean, inspired ice cream. Poetry has a piano with all the words on it. Poetry can be made into lemons or frogs. Poetry is terrific because people are terrific. Poetry is the sight of a crow and a farm in famous New Delhi. you have to behave to write Poetry. everyone loves Poetry, Poetry is the bomb. and when that bomb goes off, an entire tent will shimmer in the breeze. oh, the beautiful breeze. a little girl will look up, slightly amazed at Poetry's wonder machine. her friends think they see something but, no, Poetry is fickle because Poetry has hopes. to play on a nice team, with the right kids, in an okay town, Poetry has the thing together. perhaps the little girl is not all that together. Poetry will know. oh yes, Poetry will certainly suss the sitch. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:06:05 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: re revolving doors Comments: cc: dcmb@METRO.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I certainly had read every available book of David's before I wrote that first phrase to Ketjak in 1974. However, I wrote that sentence in a small cafe in SF across the street from the B of A world headquarters while waiting to meet Rochelle Nameroff for lunch one day. There was a revolving door on at least one of the entrances then (don't know about now). I had also heard the west coast debut of Steve Reich's Drumming the night before at the Asian Art Museum, and that use of reiteration was in my head, literally ringing in my ears. Ron Silliman Bedford, NH ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:29:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katie Degentesh Subject: Re: small press publications announcements deadline In-Reply-To: <000901bf0f03$c9a4c300$e0265aa6@u4q7n2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Jerrold - do you list magazines as well, or only books? Thanks - Katie Degentesh >The deadline for this week's Small Press publications announcements >page @ Duration Press is this Friday. All publishers who wish to have >their publications listed, please send all appropriate information, >such as titles, authors, prices, contact / ordering information, web >addresses, & short descriptions to jerrold@durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:03:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Brook Subject: info on Bei Dao? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading the current Rain Taxi interview with Bei Dao, which sent me back to his books of poetry, notably the latest, Landscape Over Zero, I am more and more intrigued by this poet, whom I once saw read in Paris several years ago. Could someone direct me to published criticism or other interviews? According to Rain Taxi, Bei Dao is teaching at the University of California at Davis. I wonder if anyone has a more precise address? Thanks, --James Brook ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:34:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Re: three details in order of occurance, 1 query Comments: To: Wendy Kramer , Tisa Bryant , Sue Batkin , Shelly Marlow , Sara Levin , Ryan White , Roger O Snell , Roberto Tejada , Renee Gladman , Peter Ganick , Pamela Lu , Nick Bedell , Mytili Jagannathan , Minnie Bruce Pratt , Michael Smoler , Marcella Durand , Letta Neely , lee ann brown , Laura Nuss , Laura Wright , Laura Mullen , "L.MacMahon and T.R.Healy" , KRYSL MARILYN D , Kristin Stuart , Ken Cooper , kathe izzo , Julie Patton , Josepha Conrad , John Kellow , Jennifer Ross , Jennifer Heath <103326.2404@compuserve.com>, Jay Schwartz , Ike Kim/Ecstasy , Hoa Nguyen , Fuf Vollmayer , Elizabeth Shipley , Eleni Sikelianos , Discussion of Women's Poetry List , David Kirshenbaum , Dana Greene , Dave Stillwell , Cindra Feuer , Chuck Stebelton , "Christina B. Hanhardt" , Chris Luna , Anne Waldman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1) quick and final reminder of next Belladonna: Julie Patton and Betsy Andrews reading at BELLADONNA* (women's bookstore, 172 allen st, lower e. side F train to 2nd ave.--- more info: 212-777-6028) Thursday, October 7 9:00 pm 2) Rachel Levitsky info through Dec. 22 (then back to normal) phone: (408)-961-5834 email: Levitsk@hotmail.com address: Villa Montalvo P.O. Box 158 Saratoga, CA 95071-0158 or for fedex or larger packages: 15400 Montalvo Road Saratoga, CA 95070 3) Eileen Myles workshop I know about: Begins Monday evening, Oct. 25 (I think 7pm)--if you are interested, contact Eileen at Easter8@aol.com. There will be 12 people max and cost is sliding scale. The focus of the workshop is everything. 4) Can someone pass along Fanny Howe address or edress or phone number to me? Many gracias in advance. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:52:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rod & Corrine Holke-Farnam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm searching for information on Joy Davidman. Any ehlp would be greatly appreciated. Corrine rh14471@cedarnet.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:44:29 +0100 Reply-To: suantrai@iol.ie Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "L. MacMahon and T.R. Healy" Subject: Re: OVO, stockholm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David oi object to that last remark. Though, while we're at it, listening to the radio this afternoon I realised that paddies pronounce the words lawyer and liar almost identically. (Add the o's yourselves, I'm on a go slow) cheers Randolph Healy Visit the Sound Eye website at: http://indigo.ie/~tjac/sound_eye_hme.htm or find more Irish writing at: http://www.nd.edu/~ndr/issues/ndr7/contents.html ---------- > From: david bromige > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: OVO, stockholm > Date: 06 October 1999 06:58 > > Maybe it's obvious to all, but if not, you will welcome the news > that Oidentifieriade verbala objekt is an unidentified verbal object, > presumably something that doesnt exist that everybody's read or heard of > (although isnt it rather, in this case, something that does exist that > nobody has seen or read of, in sweden that is, until now? leastwise in the > minds of the editors?). It must be quite clear to non-swedish readers, > except for the O, which has the function of un, but looks as though an > irish person had blundered into the act. David > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:33:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: juliana spahr Subject: reading report from honolulu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry if this is too long. Please just delete it. But in four days I think we had most of the readings for the year. The readings began with one by Maxine Hong Kingston. It was packed. Some guy in my dept, and several other people, have been complaining a lot about Kingston coming to read (HLAC brought her). I've been forgiving the way hlac is paying Kingston $500 to read (not much money; she had a better paying, yet restricted, gig at the HCTE). Mainly b/c I'm just like, well it is someone else reading (one step forward of my hlac year). And it was what I expect of community arts organizations--they like big names. She read this piece from that Hawai'i book. I need to go and read it. I'll probably get it wrong here. It was a chapter about the TAlk Story conference (one of the first conferences on local lit in the 70s or early 80s; Susan Schultz will know; something I obviously did not attend). I found it completely offensive (but I might be overreacting I should say since I don't have the text and didn't take notes). It began with this story of ladies lifting their skirts as they walked across the palace grounds where Liliuokalani was interned (which someone pointed out she miscalled the governor's palace). And then it goes on to do this reading of the conference which was mainly about who didn't like her or who did and who walked out when she read, etc. and how she was an outsider and not supposed to write about Hawai'i and how the (local, I assume) poetry was all very bad and she had to tap her finger so as not to be infected by it. And it talked about how she feels like she shouldn't write about Hawai'i but then it said things like I understand things better about Hawai'i b/c I'm not from Hawai'i. (A theme that she spent 10 minutes on later; saying that she never writes on Hawai'i and yet she read two long pieces on Hawai'i.) She completely glossed over the thing with her and Chin and Wong (which is reductive on both sides it seems; when someone in the audience asked her why there were no Asian-Amer male writers (?!), she said it was b/c women read more books and go to college more). Then she reads this story from her new novel that is about Hawai'i (which she wrote from the clarity of California she tells us). And it is about water and fishing. And has some of the worst pidgin I've heard (to my tin mainland ears--it feels very fake; very limited vocabulary; lacks obvious turns of phrase; but it cd be pidgin of 10 years ago; I'm no expert here--in fact I get most of my pidgin via the local literature; so I guess I should just say it doesn't sound as rich? or should I say it doesn't sound all Bamboo Ridge?). And then it ends with this scene where Whitman's (character from past novel) wife, who is haole, goes down to the corner store. On the way there she thinks about how she is beginning to see the darker side of paradise. And then she goes over to talk to this group of local guys. They are sitting on a bench. All together. And one of them is masturbating. And talking to her. He is masturbating by rubbing back and forth on this bench, which is worn smooth from all this rubbing. And the men take turns, sitting in this masturbation seat. During the question and answer she states that she now doesn't put people in her books unless she asks them first. That it wasn't right of her to write crazy people in her books, say. Or whatever. Someone, finally, asks her about this scene, and say it doesn't sound very respectful to the Hawaiians (although I think these men are just local in the narrative and not more specific). She says, well it was true. There was other stuff too. Lots of stuff about peace. And about how her work was a response to the horrible wars of this century which we have to cover over with peace, etc. I'm trying not to overreact. And I was thinking also about how I can go to endlessly dull readings of avant garde stuff and yet I can't take a little craziness on the normal stuff. Then the next day, Listers Susan Schultz and me and nonlisters John Zuern, Kyle Koza, Caroline Sinavaiana, and Rodney Morales organized this fall festival event which we called Alter Englishes. We inherited the festival from Robbie Shapard. It is a series of readings with a lot of apparatus. Sometimes the apparatus makes me uncomfortable. On Friday Cecilia Vicuna was 5 minutes late for her talk because I forgot to tell her where it was. She came in the room apparently, I was out looking for her, shaking a seed pod and saying "I'm very angry." Then I came back and she started yelling at me but then gave me a hug and said she forgave me. I think I must have looked very upset. She then gave a great talk called "In Tongues Within." It was a version of her talk at Bard. I love the talk. It is hopeful about language yet also very aware of the political. She told a story about going to American movies when she was a kid and then coming out of the theater and everyone speaking in a fake english in order to mimic the language of power. But she also talked about the ways indigenous languages infiltrate into colonial languages. She whisper talked the talk. Which fascinates me. During the discussion Rob Wilson asked a question about utopianism in her talk. Cecilia spoke in defense of acknowledging the disruptive moments in languages with skill. She showed at this moment that she is very, very smart. It is hard to negotiate here sometimes and she was doing it with such skill and she had only been here for a half a day. I think she must be used to the sorts of arguments about here. In the midst of this Sina mentioned Epeli Hauofa's talk during the summer (I missed it) and how he talked about the difference b/t utopia and possibility and the importance of acknowledging possibilities within colonial situations. I thought this was a good turn on the abyss we sometimes find ourselves in here. Myung Mi Kim was also supposed to speak but she couldn't make the conference because she got in an automobile accident and then had to get surgery. AFter the talk Anne Tardos and Cecilia went to the beach. I was supposed to go but I went to the lei story and then to buy some tablecloths with Susan. We went back and set up for the bookfair (part of the apparatus). And waited for the food (another part of the apparatus). The food was delicious. Matt Lau who used to run my favorite neighborhood restaurant made it. It was big slices of tofu in sauce and some chicken thing in papaya sauce and rice and vegetables. We had ordered food for 300, which is about how many people came last year. But only around 175 people came. So the auditorium was too big and there was too much food and this made me very paranoid. But the reading was great. Eric Gamalinda read. He is our visiting writer and I like him b/c he seems to always be in a good mood. His work was interesting: lyrical, concerned with Filipino and/or F-American identity, at moments going off in unexpected directions. It made me happy. Cecilia read. She started singing from the audience. And this caused some problem with the introducer who wanted to give her a lei and who ended up following behind her across the stage in some sort of shadow dance. She read some of her whisper poems. And Lee Tonouchi read. Lee is a local pidgin writer. He kind of embodies pidgin machismo. It kind of annoyed me at first but I'm beginning to forgive him. He does a sort of stand up comedy act where he reads these stories about a guy's girlfriend who is always dumb. I think he might be a force in the future when his work becomes about more than the dumbness of girls. After the reading I wanted to go out with the graduate students but Bill didn't want to b/c he had to study. I became this good combination of grumpy and paranoid and didn't sleep all night. Talks the next day started at 10 am. Ku'ualoha Ho'omanawanui gave a talk on the history of the Hawaiian language. She noted that in the 1860s Hawai'i had the highest literacy rate in the world. That a very long Hawaiian novel was serialized in the newspaper b/t 1860 and 1861. That numerous works were translated into Hawaiian during this period. Things like Shakespeare's Tempest. Then all this ended with the annexation. And the Hawaiian language went into decline. Anne gave a talk on why she writes multilingually. It was in the form of a self interview and was very funny. She has a version of it at her website. I would recommend checking it out and will not spoil it with summary. And Lee gave a talk called "Da Death of Pidgin?" that was about how great pidgin was and kind of the joke, or not, was that pidgin was a language that encompassed everything so that even English was pidgin. Or I think his point here is that there is no pure pidgin. He was very worried about avoiding pidgin standards. I liked it best though when he talked about how he used pidgin to write letters to the editor and they got printed and how he used pidgin fill out his job application teaching English at KCC and he got the job and how he used pidgin for writing graduate school papers and still passed. His talk greatly pleased me. The discussion afterwards returned to language politics. Some members of the audience felt that Anne was being too optimistic when she said she wrote multilingually b/c that was what life was like for her. Or that she was not making a nation argument b/c her work had the languages of many nations in it. Anne avoided taking on the obvious marginalization that was one possible response to this argument (that the reasons she knows so many languages was that her parents were Jews and had to move a lot to avoid anti-Semitism). I was reminded about how in life at times there is just one argument. And had to say to myself yet again that one of the reasons we should invite people from outside (although not exclusively from outside--another problem with a long history) was that they might see things differently and that this was good. Also stewing underneath the discussions, but never vocalized around me, was the complicated language politics here. Pidgin is out with certain intellectuals (it is too Bamboo Ridge and thus neocolonial--I simplify but so does this argument). Hawaiian is in. So I think Lee's inclusive pidgin politics didn't really fly with some. Or that is what some people said over lunch maybe but not where I was. I went to the lei store after lunch. At 2 Grace Molisa gave a talk on "Language, Gender, and Human Rights in the Pacific." She is a writer from Vanuatu and she spoke movingly on Vanuatu which is a country of over 80 islands with 170,000 people who speak over 100 languages and the nation itself has three official languages (Bislama, English, and French). She said that some people say that Vanuatu has the highest languages per capita (I think it is Papua N.G. that has the highest number of languages?). She spoke very slowly and very articulately about illiteracy in Vanuatu (around 50%; higher for women), about being one of few literate women and working in the new government (Vanuatu went sovereign in the 80s), about her own education. She also talked about how she is translating the universal declaration of human rights into Bislama. After her talk I went to the lei store again (we kept miscalculating). And then we set up for the bookfair. And again only around 175 people came and we had too much food which was complicated by the fact that Matt was like 3 hours late with it and it made us all very hungry and kind of crazed. Cecilia and I were eating fritos by the end. Anyway, we started the reading without food. And Grace read first. She read these amazing poems that were very unpoetic. Steve Carll called them "memo poems." They were short poems with no metaphor or turns of phrase. One went something like this in its entirety: emerging states seek the help of outside advisors. Another was about what democracy was. They fascinated me because they were not an obvious part of the postcolonial tradition in terms of form (which often sounds like Adrienne Rich). But they were very aware of poetry's role in postcolonial situations. She writes her poems to explain things to people in a way that they will remember them. She publishes her books herself and I gave her the name of spd so I hope she will list with them. I recommend them highly. Anne read next. I was nervous about how her poems would be received but the audience got them and laughed a lot. She read from Uxudo and also had these poems displayed on the screen behind her. AT one point the crazy lady who comes to all the readings here started reading along with them and it created this wonderful additional voice from the audience. There was also a great contrast between Grace's spare, information poems and Anne's multilingual registers. I thought it worked and was a good lesson on all that poetry can be for me. Then Ku'ualoha had asked that she be able to turn her reading time over for a creative presentation by the journal 'Oiwi (which she co-edits). They had a gourd player and a flutist (I know I'm calling these things by their wrong names which are very specific in Hawaiian) and several readers and images on the screen. They read sections from the first issue of the journal. The performance was restrained but also very interesting. I liked its emphasis on the collective aspects of editing and how that is what is important. I was a bit disappointed that they for some reason decided to highlight the poem that compares butt fucking to colonialism (the line is: "It's like/Getting fucked in the ass/Is supposed to be/A turn on--/Get real!"; I've complained about this before) by Mahealani Kamau'u. But otherwise it was very political and kind of another interesting contrast with the readings that came before. It pointed out one form that nationalist art might take inside a university. And that seems very important. Then we all ate some food. And then we went to the bar Shipley's. There was more food there. Which would have been fine if we had eaten four hours earlier when we were supposed to but didn't. We drank some stuff, went home, slept for a long time. The next day Anne and Cecilia and Bill and me went to Bellows, a beach that is owned by the military and you can only visit on weekends. Cecilia rode on the body board a lot. Afterwards we came home and Eric and Steve came over for dinner. We had a series of salads for dinner. A few days later Susan said we should start planning next year's. And I thought I am still way too tired. Setting up readings here makes me too tense b/c of the politics of things. I'm working hard on balance between elsewhere and here and still that seems not right to many. I realized while doing this that I like events that are no man's lands, that have no affiliations. But sometimes that means that no one is interested. But at the same time doing stuff here means bringing in people who you might not otherwise hear ever. I wish more peope from other parts of the Pacific came to read. And I enjoyed attending the event. The conversation between elsewhere and here interested me. I kind of need that friction in order to understand things. I'm going to put the readings up on the web in a month or so (but not the Kingston reading which I didn't organize). I'll let you know when I do this. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:11:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Marsh Subject: Re: small press publications announcements deadline In-Reply-To: <000901bf0f03$c9a4c300$e0265aa6@u4q7n2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for including the following from PaberBrainPress Chapbooks 1999: John Olson, *Logo Lagoon* (28pp.) Steve Carll, *DRUGS* (24pp.) Rebecca Byrkit, *Suite: Mary* (20pp.) Sheila Murphy & Peter Ganick, *numens from centrality* (36pp.) 1998: M. Magoolaghan, *mag nets* (20pp.) Dan Featherston, *ROOMS* (36pp.) Willam Marsh, *b/c* (40pp.) All chaps $5 or 2 for $8 Limited Editions Dana Montlack & Bill Marsh, *The Bagua Book* (text and color images, 24pp.,$20) Dana Montlack & William Marsh, *Recycler's Handbook* (text and color images, 30pp., $15) current site for more information: http://bmarsh.dtai.com/paperbrainpress/ thanks much! bmarsh > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jerrold Shiroma > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 12:32 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: small press publications announcements deadline > > > The deadline for this week's Small Press publications announcements > page @ Duration Press is this Friday. All publishers who wish to have > their publications listed, please send all appropriate information, > such as titles, authors, prices, contact / ordering information, web > addresses, & short descriptions to jerrold@durationpress.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:11:13 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kathylou@ATT.NET Subject: Re: View from the front: The Small Press Traffic soiree And let's not forget, it was all for a good cause: Raising money for Small Press Traffic! If you saw the list of fabulous auction items and raffle prizes and wondered "how the heck did they get that?" I have two words for you: Kevin Killian. I'm thinking he should hire himself out as a consultant, or at least professional autograph hound. Good job kids. Kathy Lou Schultz > It being nearly impossible for me to grow a beard myself, I've always held > the hirsute facial appendages enthralling in others. Thus the true motive > for my avowed "great pleasure" in introducing David Bromige during the group > reading at the same event. (Though, it's true, I have as much admiration for > his work as for his beard - and the same might be said of Delany). So mine > is a beardward bent that needs no beard for its bending. > > Tanya, of course, has her own "bent" reasons to dig a translucent plastic > envelope full of hair... > > Taylor > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Tisa Bryant > Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 2:47 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: View from the front: The Small Press Traffic soiree > > Kathy, > > I believe it was Ms. Tanya Hollis who scored the snip of Chip's beard.... > I remember being shocked and delighted that she bid on something described > as > being for fetishists....maybe they'll share, or (gasp!) maybe it is Tanya > who's > the beard for Taylor's bent....hmmm. > > Tisa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:43:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: r e a d m e MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. - Tim ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999, 4:56 PM -0400 From: Gary Sullivan Subject: r e a d m e Hello everyone, r e a d m e is now up: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/history/detour/readme I n t e r v i e w s Charles Bernstein (by Bradford Senning) Mary Burger (by Jacques Debrot) Jeff Clark (by Jordan Davis) Nada Gordon (by Gary Sullivan) Randolph Healy (by Robert Archambeau) Kent Johnson (by John Bradley) Rebecca Levi (by GS) Ange Mlinko (by GS) Alan Sondheim (by GS) E s s a y s Jack Kimball on John Wieners Kimberly Lyons on Women and the Poetry Project Alan Sondheim's "" or Practice P o e t r y Daniel Davidson's Last Poems Nada Gordon "essay" Joel Lewis "The Pethro Poems" Kimberly Lyons "Concordonnance" Alan Sondheim "Selected Works" R e v i e w s Nada Gordon on Andrea Brady's Liberties Jeffrey Jullich on Aaron Shurin's Paradise of Forms Ramez Qureshi on J.H. Prynne's Collected Poems Gerald Schwartz on Kamau Brathwaite Heather Fuller on Jeff Conant A S p e c i a l S e c t i o n o n D a n i e l D a v i d s o n w i t h w r i t i n g b y George Albon Bruce Andrews Dodie Bellamy Jeff Conant Beverly Dahlen Greg Fuchs Benjamin Friedlander Kevin Killian Colleen Lookingbill Aldon Nielsen Charles Pollack Gary Sullivan Jordan Zorker L i n k s Links to bios, interviews with and work by more than 400 20th century "non-mainstream" authors (constantly updated; feel free to suggest further URLs). r e a d m e is a quarterly online journal of poetics featuring interviews, essays and reviews germane to contemporary poetry. Poetry published only in tandem with author interviews and/or critical prose, except in cases of poem-as-reading/critique. Queries welcome. A letters page will be included in subsequent issues. Please send all queries and correspondence via email: gps12@columbia.edu or to Gary Sullivan, 558 11th Street, #1B, Brooklyn, NY 11215. Next issue: Interviews with Hoa Nguyen, Laurie Price, Rod Smith, and more .. ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:52:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: recent material on Erica Hunt? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm wondering if anyone knows of work published ON Erica, esp recent work (or particularly good work). thanks for any leads. Tenney mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:02:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the parental MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII o+ the parental the promise i am very small in the world i have tried to make peace with the world i constitute and reconstitute myself i have tried to make peace with my father i am barred from the world and my father in the next quarter century i will write i will complete the work i have been writing i will compile and interpret the work the work will remain in spite of its ruin in the stories of mothers and sons i am written in the stories of fathers and sons i am written i am a coward small and fearful in this world i will write not a world from not a world for decades i will write i will write pebbles and endless beaches i will walk on edges and fly low near a height i shall ascertain the heights of men and women i will reckon and live through reckonings i will promise and live through promisings in ruins i will stumble and write of ruins among friends and enemies i will testify shore and beaches and pebbles are memories of nights and days i will write their turnings i am fearful of worlds and will never write worlds i am fearful of worlds and i will write worlds this promise of the 6th day 10th month 99th year when i am smallest in this smallest of worlds cancer Tue Oct 5 22:14:18 EDT 1999 now cancer will begin its journey in the arms of god arraignments while cancer subsides and angels happy Tue Oct 5 22:22:54 EDT 1999 arraignments during final assaults and angels dying Tue Oct 5 22:23:12 EDT 1999 let us pray Tue Oct 5 22:14:18 EDT 1999 in the truth of god the cancer enters the lung, from the truth of god the cancer hovers, now, as if it were forever Tue Oct 5 22:14:54 EDT 1999 abandoned by god, the cancer thins towards ready exculpation, as if it were gone, as if angels rejoiced, singing the home of abandoned cancer, the purity of organs constituted Tue Oct 5 22:15:56 EDT 1999 now cancer returns, approbated by god, as if god were speaking or speech or sound, now cancer spreads to the adrenal, angels weep in full capacity against the begging of the angels arrayed against god, now cancer seeps, spreads, covers itself, makes excuses, ahem, begs foregiveness, meanders, wanders, returns, burrows, ahem Tue Oct 5 22:18:00 EDT 1999 now cancer subsides, angels rejoice, god withdraws, there is no justice in the world, suns blacken, angels sing and play harps, cancer dwindles, eyes return their bright and merry sight Tue Oct 5 22:18:39 EDT 1999 now breathing slows, waves of cancer testing other newer waters, new metastases, solitons and wavelets, ripples on surfaces unseen, god smiles wide and broad, angels shudder holding on Tue Oct 5 22:19:30 EDT 1999 now cancer claims an other organ, angels again weeping and wailing, shall there be no mercy, angels crying and begging, god almost merry, cancer hems and haws, cancer close to apologetic laughter Tue Oct 5 22:20:26 EDT 1999 now cancer will begin its work within the arms of god, angels prepare for bier and mourning, angels yet hopeful in the face of god's huges eyes Tue Oct 5 22:21:30 EDT 1999 smiling everywhere, yet other organs, uncanny stillness, strangeness of beings of pure light arrayed against skin, bones, organs, god's beings against angels wailing Tue Oct 5 22:22:39 EDT 1999 arraignments during final assaults and angels dying Tue Oct 5 22:23:21 EDT 1999 let us pray Tue Oct 5 22:23:22 EDT 1999 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:01:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: under the Palace of Escapist Literature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hito shirezu koso, smudge-fire@a.house Forgive the interruption or did I see the young bamboo? Things are not the same for one man, the many poisonous insects that emerged pursue us one after another hanging from our shoulders even the rude mountain had nothing to hope for there were still many empty fields I am writing one to see what a woman can do omowazarishi wo in the morning I retired after he sent this verse to her: although you are old crossing the past o waves! forgetting-shells Semio Cipher, I-bode@embolden.glare When I try to climb I lower my eyes. The single note with thorns is no place to write. A forest, indistinct, too shy to follow. Pure heart, drunken stupor, clutching child. I'll be the revelation atop city walls. But a man into ghosts seeks words that rhymes. Or does she feel annoyed as she speeds away? The good man grows thorns. meat-girl, body without syntax with such happiness between the clouds ink freezes when I think of this I have been unable to gaze peacefully in the distance the eyes dispair in disarray I'm unable to sleep where the dawn has not come yet a face greatly changed now I lean on sadness, there are limits to know the world is vapor it moves me to sing distant spaces that await me hurt my heart my regret gathers force stilled in this presence Sally Forth, dodecaphony@extant.kithara Don't you see withered trees I must leave among the clouds Always the disturbing meditation No one can give my food to the crows Who lived scene by scene Blooms burst her green mound Flutes and wind once parted My severe decay has yet to go where I go I'm drunk and the world is vast He's never been here & I lift up my skirt In front of his meloncholy Great great grandfather, 1907 somewhere near Ankara, Turkey neither living or dying speeds up the dancer's striptease elements of surprise & a capricious warning finger "how do you know a single word can be good?" loss of verbal desire but they are only improvisations until he is loved by one of the puppets consistent use of imitation failed each morning in this rustic village it is always the trace of the cut that has had the desired effect leading to a blurred noise not one has survived discontinuities which represent words that might be her last breath ____________________________________ a bearded lady brings him financial ruin when the agreed-upon day demands his soul a wager thinking he is awaiting Venus who appears modern with frequent melodies ____________________________________ to be in the secret run out of words shake the dust to wake up ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:43:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel M Bettridge Subject: call for papers (Ronald Johnson Conference) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit __Eye, Ear, & Mind: A Conference on the Poetry of Ronald Johnson__ The conference will be held in the Poetry and Rare Books Library at SUNY Buffalo, and will take place on April 21 & 22 (2000). Any area of Johnson's work is open for discussion. Please send abstracts by January 31: email to, jmb10@acsu.buffalo.edu, or by mail to Joel Bettridge, 259 Ashland Ave #3, Buffalo NY 14222. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at the either address. Please pass this post on to anyone that might be interested, or any other relevant lists. thanks, Joel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:58:08 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "d.j. huppatz" Subject: new publications from down under Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear All Announcing Textbase Issue #4, 26 pages of experimental writing in glorious black & white, including a fancy foldout interview with Melbourne concrete/vispo/sound poet PiO. Plus, new from Textbase micropress, THE WEEK SONNETS, a chapbook by D.J. Huppatz. Here's what the critics have said about this volume: "Week Sonnets? More like Weak Sonnets, they don't even rhyme." - Kevin Schwartz, Brunswick Times. "Well it's a bit strange. Why can't you write something nice?" - Martha Huppatz, poet's mother. All swaps considered BUT I also have a limited number of freebies of both, backchannel with your address for copies. Dan Huppatz, Melbourne Australia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:08:10 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: ReMap #7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Love's work is always freedom" D. Meltzer The new ReMap is almost home from the printers. Please subscribe or re: as we wish to survive as we do. since 1990-- # 7: LOVE Lee Ann Brown Laura Wright Tosh Berman Martin Nakell Alice Notely Douglas Oliver Chris Reiner Rodrigo Toscan Elizabeth Treadwell edited by Todd Baron and Carolyn Kemp $10. per two issues 3625 wesley st culver city ca 90232 love's deidication: sophie dylan baron born 9/16/99 check to Todd Baron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:05:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: Joy Davidman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit She is briefly discussed in Cary Nelson's book _Repression and Recovery_. Rod & Corrine Holke-Farnam wrote: > I'm searching for information on Joy Davidman. Any ehlp would be > greatly appreciated. > > Corrine rh14471@cedarnet.org -- David Kellogg kellogg@duke.edu Duke University, University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:59:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sara Lundquist MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT If any one knows David Lehman's email address, would you backchannel it to me at sara_lundquist@utoledo.edu? Sara Lundquist English Department University of Toledo sara_lundquist@utoledo.edu Without shyness or formality "a gesture of allowing oneself time" Remember how starry it arrives the hope of another idiom, beheld that blush of inexactitude, and the furor, it will return to you, flotsam blocked out (Guest) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:16:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: readings next week Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Tomorrow, Friday, Oct. 13th at 10:30 pm is Po'Jazz Jazz & poetry with Golda Soloman, Gerthie Owtram, and musicians. Monday, Oct. 11th at 8 pm is Blood & Tears: Poems for Matthew Shepard with John Ashbery, Patricia Spears Jones, Eileen Myles, Jaime Manrique, Edmund Berrigan, Eleni Sikelianos, Kristin Prevallet, Stephen Turtell, Dean Kostos, Manny Xavier, Lisa Jarnot, Lee Ann Brown, Maggie Nelson, Griffin Hansbury, Beatrix Gates, Gerrit Henry, and Linda Smuckler. Wednesday, Oct. 13th at 8 pm is Poetry/In Transit Danish poets Annemette Kure Andersen, Niels Frank, and Pia Tafdrup read as part of the ongoing project Poetry/In Transit, with English translations read by John Ashbery, Eleni Sikelianos, and Siri Hustvedt. Friday, Oct. 15th at 10:30 pm is The Haiku Year/Head to Head Haiku Competition Douglas A. Martin, Anna Grace, Tom Gilroy, and Jim McKay read from The Haiku Year, published by Soft Skull Press. Then, open rounds of Head to Head Haiku, led by Headmaster Daniel Ferri. Bring 17 or more haiku and win prizes! All events are $7, $4 for students/seniors. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:29:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: Thursday's Book Report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm no good at this but want to point to Karen Kelley's latest book, Venus Return (Vatic Hum, SF), and say (in a deep voice to denote seriousness) that the book deserves attention. the poems are worked in a carefully rendered prose - as if she's had practice writing -- with uninflected, dream-like shifts of place, mood, and attention. they have a viscous integrity, solid but shifty; they might even be surreal but I never went to that school. "What do you want? Buttered toast? Dollar bills? The meat in the pan? Lots of books? Monogamy? Modest photos of yourself no one else will ever see?" yes to all, as a matter of fact, especially the last, but here's the point: I find myself chuckling at the dry humour that always arrives unexpected. I'm caught off guard as I read, and eager for more surprises. the dreaminess carries a sexy passion and a human confusion straight from the source. some people think there's such a word as 'about' so I'll go so far as to say that these poems are about gender, relationship and underwear. politicized underwear, that is, and I'm not kidding. typefaces have been carefully chosen and employed, with both visual impact and legibility equally honoured: I commend that. I hope Venus Returns sounds as interesting as I found it. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:59:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: New Arras URL -- please change your links! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Arras can now be found at: http://www.geocities.com/arras_online Geocities is the place where you can get 11mb of server space for free, which is why it's moved. The drawback is that an ad banner pops up in a new window. My advice: DO NOT close the new window, only minimize it (that is, hit the button with the single "_" in it rather than the one with the "x"). This will keep the banner out of site while you navigate. If you close the window, it will reopen every time you hit a link, pretty annoying. As they didn't have "Poetry" as a subject category, I chose "Issues and Events," so the advertising is relatively innocuous. All I've seen so far is a banner for debt considation, which is actually kind of helpful. Please change whatever links you have on your site to the new URL. There won't be any forwarding from the old URL, it'll just be dead. Thanks so much to all of you who have visited the site and/or linked to it! Much appreciated... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:18:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: L.A. reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jay Wright reads Tuesday, Oct. 12 8:00 PM Loyola Marymount University McIntosh Center in Sullivan Hall 7900 Loyola Blvd., L.A. (near the airport -- just off Manchester as you head into the Pacific) call Nielsen for info. (310) 338-3078 next up: Primus St. John on Oct. 20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:46:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Re: Joy Davidman In-Reply-To: <37FBC79E.A4E184C8@duke.edu> from "David Kellogg" at Oct 6, 1999 06:05:18 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very briefly. Alan Wald is a better source of information (he's at Michigan). -- Al Filreis ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | She is briefly discussed in Cary Nelson's book _Repression and | Recovery_. | | Rod & Corrine Holke-Farnam wrote: | | > I'm searching for information on Joy Davidman. Any ehlp would be | > greatly appreciated. | > | > Corrine rh14471@cedarnet.org | | -- | David Kellogg | kellogg@duke.edu | Duke University, University Writing Program | (919) 660-4357 | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: UB Job Ad Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Assistant or Associate Professor > New Media/Graphic Design > School of Communications Design > University of Baltimore > > Position beginning August 2000 in an interdisciplinary School of >Communications Design with unique applied/professional programs. > > Applicant must have substantial experience in interactive media and >graphic design, MFA or equivalent degree, strong commitment to teaching, >and ability to teach a variety of digital arts courses at undergraduate, >masters, and doctoral levels. We are interested in candidates who can >teach some or all of the following: computer graphics and animation, Web >and other electronic publishing, digital audio and video, 3-D modeling/VR, >and information design. > > Both technical expertise and design excellence are crucial. Portfolio >must include both interactive media and print. Salary and rank >commensurate with qualifications and experience. Review of applications >will begin 12/15/99. > > Submit letter, vita, portfolio and URLs, plus phone numbers for 3 >references to Jaye Crooks, School of Communications Design, 1400 N. >Charles Street, Baltimore, Maryland 21201-5779. > > The School of Communications Design offers undergraduate degrees in >English and Corporate Communications, an MA in Publications Design, and a >new first-professional degree, the Doctor of Communications Design (DCD). >The School also offers a range of post-Master's certificate programs in >advanced design, communications and design theory, literary publishing, >and new media publishing. The associated Institute for Language, >Technology, and Publications Design supports fellowships, lectures and >seminars, and advanced research projects. > > For direct inquiries, please e-mail Jaye Crooks, jcrooks@ubmail.ubalt.edu >or call 410/837-6022. For further information about the School of >Communications Design please visit one of these Web sites: > > Main site: > http://raven.ubalt.edu/comDesign > > Doctor of Communications Design: > http://raven.ubalt.edu/dcd > > Certificate programs: > http://raven.ubalt.edu/certificates > > Institute: > http://raven.ubalt.edu/institute ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:53:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: 5 eprayers for alan with alan's words MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit stillness, stillness, as in my angels harps, as if my reckonings withdraws, approbated reckonings to me am cancer remain in us if constitute withdraws, reckonings reckonings as if my angels mercy, as if no promisings apologetic constitute withdraws, by me if angels return if my us constitute approbated apologetic stillness, be me if harps, return as if we constitute promisings ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:55:55 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the ReMap advert should of, of course, tired he wrote--read Rodrigo Toscano not "toscan" or some dessert of that name. thanks for reading, Todd Baron ReMap Readers ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:57:32 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Shapiro Subject: Kenyon Review, Sewanee Writers Conference, Boulevard : 3 NYC events MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THREE FREE NYC LITERARY EVENTS RSVP to gshapirony@aol.com or 212 604-4823 We'll see you there! You're invited! October 12, 1999 The Kenyon Review at 60: A Celebration 7:00pm Founded by John Crowe Ransom, the journal published Allen Tate, Cleanth Brooks, RP Blackmur, Randall Jarrell and Kenneth Burke in its first couple decades, and has gone on to help shape the tastes of the nation. Princeton professor Michael Wood (author of books on Stendhal, Marquez, Nabokov, among others) will speak on BROKEN DATES: FICTION AND THE CENTURY, followed by respondent MacArthur winner Lewis Hyde (author of The Gift: Imagination and the Erotic Life of Property), and Celia E. O'Donnell, Director of the Council of Literary magazines and Presses. Moderated by Editor David Lynn. FREE ----- Nov. 3, 1999 Sewanee Writers' Conference 10th Anniversary 7:30pm High atop the Cumberland Plateau, an hour and a half from Nashville, an hour from Chattanooga, lies the University of the South, which provides an idyllic setting for The Sewanee Writers' Conference. Writers, editors and agents gather each July to convene for classes, readings, and conversation. Join Conference Director Wyatt Prunty, author of "Since the Noon Mail Stopped" (Johns Hopkins,1997), and other noted writers, including 1999 National Book Award Winner Alice McDermott,as well as Daniel Mueller, author of "How Animals Mate" (Overlook, 1999), Pulitzer Prize winning poet Mark Strand, and Lily Tuck, author of "Siam: or The Woman who Shot a Man" (Overlook, 1999). FREE -------- November 8,1999 An evening with Boulevard Magazine 7:30pm Join Editor Richard Burgin (three-time Pushcart Prize winner, and author of Fear of Blue Skies, Private Fame and Man Without Memory), Molly Peacock, author of four books of poems, including Original Love and Take Heart, as well as a memoir Paradise, Piece by Piece, has been President of the Poetry Society of America. Art critic and poet David Shapiro, author of 7 volumes of poetry, monographs on Ashbery, Jasper Johns, and After a Last Original (with Terry Winters). FREE Location of the above three events: 15 Gramercy Park South, NYC (near 20th Street & Park Ave) For more information, email gshapirony@aol.com or call 212 604-4823. Business attire (jacket & tie for men) is required. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:19:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: New from Avec -- Michael Palmer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New From Avec Books: _The Danish Notebook_ by Michael Palmer. Poetry *Autobiography. For more information about this book, or to read an excerpt, please go to www.instress.com/avec The Danish Notebook is available from www.amazon.com and Small Press Distribution (it's not yet on their website, but it's in their database). For those of you in the San Francisco Bay Area, SPD asked me to post that The Danish Notebook,and other books from independent presses will be for sale for 20% off at Small Press Distribution's booth (114) at the 10th annual San Francisco Bay Area Book Festival Oct. 16th and 17th, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. at Fort Mason. Avec Book titles will also be for sale at Poetry Flash's booth at the Book Festival, which will be near the Allen Ginsburg Poetry Cafe. For additional information about the book festival go to www.sfbook.org *Cydney Chadwick thanks everyone who responded so quickly with offers to build the page for Michael Palmer's new book. She'll respond to everyone who back channeled her in the next few days. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:03:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: ~IS~ FORM (re: ANTIN addenda) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, i just came across this quote - "Form has to do with how to shape a given space" Gertrude Stein, _Stanzas in Meditation_ that i think captures the process vs. static issue of forms quite nicely. tom "Lowther, John" wrote: > > i didnt edit myself terribly well in that long -- //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:46:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the closeness of cancer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII o the closeness of cancer always waiting for the result, the next cellSWOLLEN BEGINNING TO DISORGAN- IZE THE CORE-THEORETICAL STRUCTURE OF THE WORLDgrappled mitochondriaTELL YOU THE TRUTH, WHILE THE VOICE CONTINUES TO SPEAK AS IF A THIN LAMINA OC- CURRED OVER OR UPON THE REALthe case of the real when the territory is the map or when emissions, spews replace chaos by noise, substance, AAAAASUB- STANCE PULLS THE BODY DOWN, SUBSTANCE IS THE DREAM OF THE BODY, IS THE BODY OF THE DREAM: THIS IS THE TRUTH WHICH I HAVE COME TO TELL YOUa result might divide, might lead to another result, a day might divide, lead to another day, a year might divideINTO A YEAR THE SUBSTANCE OF YEARS FALLS; INTO A MONTH, THE SUBSTANCE OF YEARS; INTO A WEEK, THE SUBSTANCE; INTO A DAY, HOUR, MINUTE, THE SAME; INTO A SECOND, THE SUBSTANCE AAAAAeach min- ute, second, week, day, year, month, existing for the others: it is the unknown which is simultaneously unaccountable and unaccounted-forAS IF ALL KNOWLEDGE DERAILS SUBSTANCE, SUBSTANCE DERAILS ALL KNOWLEDGE Fri Oct 8 00:26:38 EDT 1999 _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:50:43 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Traveling Tranter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. I'm John Tranter, editor of Jacket magazine. For those interested in hearing some modern poetry with a slight Australian accent, I will be giving one reading in Prague and two readings in the USA in coming weeks.=20 Contact details and reading dates as follows:=20 * October 17 to 21 Prague: Dalimil Hotel Propokova n=E1mist=ED 2-3, Praha 3-Zizkov=20 Tel. 420-2-782 666, fax 420--2-227 80182 Can be contacted via Louis Armand, =20 phone +4202. 206 12 407, fax 420 2 248 12 166,=20 email lazarus@praha1.ff.cuni.cz John Tranter reading at the Globe Bookstore, 6.30 pm Monday October 18th * October 22 to 31 New York: Olcott Hotel 27 West 72nd Street, NY 10023 =20 Tel 212 877 4200, Fax-212 580 0511=20 John Tranter reading at the Zinc Bar, 90 West Houston (Laguardia/Thompson) 6.30 pm on the evening of Tuesday October 26th * November 1 to 4 Los Angeles: Hotel Carmel 201 Broadway, Santa Monica, CA 90401=20 Tel 310-451 2469, Fax-310-393 4180 =20 John Tranter reading at the Rose Caf =E9, 220 Rose Avenue at Main Street, Venice, just south of Santa Monica, (tel 310 399 0711) on the evening of Wednesday November 3rd.=20 best,=20 JT=20 from John Tranter, 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html Homepage: five megabytes of glittering literature, free, at=20 http://www.alm.aust.com/~tranterj/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:34:01 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Traveling Tranter, the Zinc-Corrected Version Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Apologies for a misdirection in my recent email: The Zinc Bar is at 90 West Houston - LaGuardia (West Broadway) and Houston Street - and I'm reading there at 6.30 pm on the evening of Tuesday October 26th JT from John Tranter, 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html Homepage: five megabytes of glittering literature, free, at http://www.alm.aust.com/~tranterj/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:18:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: referencing vast leakage, or temporary extrusion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roland Barthes, interior@speech.noise The opposition spread under the protection of power. There are those that no concious illusion is perpetrated. An entire orality which produces a drift of bliss & fear. Fetish objects on the other hand leaves expression to the pheno-text. As a creature of language which permeates him very quietly the subject returns were we fond of neologisms. This text bores me like a spider dissolving. The text you write must prove the sentence is hierarchical. Similarly, it is not only establishing the oppostion of the way two girls must be politicized. Where is this elsewhere? Nine times out of ten societies object to undifferentiated eye & noteworthy Desire. Do not deign to be the persistence of the thing. Neurosis are the means of ungratiated sucking, a glimpse of scandalous truth, still far too much heroism to identify accurately language's image. We are scientific clandestine sites. This is to want a text which seizes the subject the way the reversal of origins could not be written. And when something remains a potlatch under respectable appearances, this is how I have my best ideas. Pry Luz, Why must I see the Immortals? In a Boat on a Bird it was very Sad A Girl grows up & then She climbs out of Bed green green I didnt dare run along the Edge Poetry is one Great Essence We steal a night listening to its Sounds I shall pity the innumerable wilderness Moon wandering in solitude I scan thru texts but discontent grows great the former rage fresh in the Frost from Birth to Modern Times echoes of Chimes and Bells empty a Man's Mind explain negation. within even man, conversation. contradiction. contradiction. confusion, cohabitation, vacillation, margin. expansion written then. in written contain within seduction. Page Light Being, radiance / spectre / poise I laugh at the arrival of a solitary crane amorous heart is tears that wets one's clothes but where I go butterflies fail to coax her I'd like to say something in tense abstraction my sorrow is great but can't compare with your past great love in opposite corners of the world the same tart flavor the present will last and get no worse the void with a thunderous hum somewhere atop the mulberry trees never my loved ones have not returned it was with them come what may that's why I'm unable to sleep as I turned my head I'm satisfied with me never quite undone I will not go gently Pride Lustre, rosebush@petal.flicker leaves of rustling sorrow into my heart prisoners continually empty half a word the vegetable is as tasteless as the sleeping dragon my girl smeared my pain with a feeble light exposing lotus leaves I never dreamed of her silent passage oblivious to desire buckthorn trees curse the endless gods how lovely the longing for encampment like a fog dabbled she wouldn't dance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:10:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Samuels Subject: reading in ypsilanti michigan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear all, for those in shouting distance of the ann arbor/ypsilanti, michigan area on Monday, October 11th: i will be reading poems, and Michael Martone will be reading fiction, at 7:30 PM in the Halle Library Auditorium on the campus of Eastern Michigan University. it's free & the new library is a cool stone & glassy venue, just north of Washtenaw Ave and east of Oakwood (on the east side of EMU's main campus) in autumnal Ypsilanti. lisa samuels ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:55:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Edward Sanders chapbook from Boog Literature Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Now available: Boog Literature chapbook # 24 Ed Sanders, Arise, o Wobblies! 12 pages + 4-page cover wrap, $6 $1 from each sale goes to the Poetry Project at St. Mark’s Church Limited numbered edition of 34 copies 12 pages + 4 page cover wrap with red star woodblock print by Tom Nattell and black typography linoleum print by Daisy DeCapite. Each book has a tip-in sheet signed by the author and cover artists. $15 $3 from each sale goes to the Poetry Project at St. Mark’s Church Checks payable to: Boog Literature 351 W.24th Street Apt. 19E New York, NY 10011-1510 email: info@booglit.com website: www.booglit.com tel: (212) 206-8899 Chapbook to commemorate Sanders Tuesday October 5, 1999, Poetry Project at St. Marks Church reading with Lawrence Ferlinghetti. An excerpt from forthcoming Black Sparrow Book, "America, A History in Verse, Vol. 1, 1900-39," (Black Sparrow Press, 1999). Also from Boog Literature by Edward Sanders, Thirsting for Peace in a Raging Century (1993). $6. Boog Literature chapbooks are edited and published by David A. Kirschenbaum. Send SASE, or email, for catalog. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:57:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Jennifer-Cancer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Jennifer-Cancer Beneath Fire Inside Your Everywhere JENNIFER STUMBLES TO HER FEET: LEAVES JENNIFER BEHIND. LURCHES. CRAWLS, SCREAMS ACROSS AMERICA. MEN WITH GUNS: VIOLATION-FABRIC OF AMERICA. JENNIFER BEHIND THE TRUCK.:VIOLATION-JENNIFER: JENNIFER DEFRAG. Bring the bones closer; cross them: SEPULCHRE. WHAT THE BONES SAY: Jennifer-Cancer always already at a ioss, RAM CORRUPTED, ROM OUTMODED.:Jannifar's c$ncar. Jannifar's ioss of mamory. Jannifar's baginning $g$in. Jannifar's c$hght - tha dissolation of Jannifar. Jannifar-fhnction tr$nsformad tamoor$riiy into org$nic/org$nism, mat$st$sas, b$ck into tha m$china. M$chinic Janni- far larching, unabla to saa/ha$r str$ight: inscriotion doasn't work, noth- ing doas. R$di$tion thar$py: JENNIFER DEFRAG.:CANCER-RAM: Devour bodies CANCER-ROM Brought Forth through JENNIFER STUMBLES TO HER FEET: LEAVES JENNIFER BEHIND. LURCHES. CRAWLS, SCREAMS ACROSS AMERICA. MEN WITH GUNS: VIOLATION-FABRIC OF AMERICA. JENNIFER BEHIND THE TRUCK. *sob!* *sob!* *sob!* unabla toscriotion doasn't work, noth-ing doas.JENNIFER STUMBLES TO HER FEET: LEAVES JENNIFER BEHIND. LURCHES.-FABRIC OF AMERICA.JENNIFERBEHIND- THETRUCK.:VIOLATION-JENNIFER: JENNIFER DEFRAG. Bring theesTHE BONES SAY: Jennifer-Canceralways already ataioss, RAMCORRUPTED, ROM OUTMODED.:Janni- far's c$ncar.ioss of mamory.$g$in.c$hght -tha dissolation ofJannifar.Jann- ifar-fhnction tr$nsformad tamoor$riiyorg$nic/org$nism,tha m$china. M$chin- icthar$py:JENNIFER DEFRAG.:CANCER-RAM: Devour bodiesCANCER-ROM *sob!* *sob!* *sob!* JENNIFER DIES OF FUCKING CANCER. *sob!* *sob!* *sob!* __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:14:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: reading in Virginia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For anyone within striking distance of Charloteesville VA -- On Thursday 10/28 at 8:00 PM there'll be readings by Gwendolyn Brooks, Joanne Gabbin AND Melvin B. Tolson Jr. This in celebration of the newly pub'd Tolson edition AND the book "The Furious Flowering of African American Poetry" There will also be music -- thing takes place at Old Cabell Hall, UVA, Charlottesville says here that for info you can call (540) 568-6310 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:10:54 -0700 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Defib: live online Web artist interview surf show MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FROM WEBARTERY.COM. DEFIB LAUNCH: NEW LIVE ONLINE Web ARTIST INTERVIEW SURF SHOW 1ST & 3RD SUNDAYS, NOON PST http://webartery.com/defib SUNDAY OCTOBER 17, NOON PST (3RD SUNDAY OF OCT) Talk with Talan Memmott and the contributors to the new issue of BeeHive at high noon during the launch show of Defib, Webartery.com's online chat interview/surf show featuring Web artists and their works and projects. Vol 2, issue 4 of BeeHive is upcoming at http://www.temporalimage.com/beehive/bee_core. All you need to participate in this live discussion/surf show is a java enabled browser. TALAN MEMMOTT AND BEEHIVE Talan Memmott is a writer living and working in San Francisco, California. He comes to writing from a background in fine art, having studied painting, installation, video and performance art, as well as critical theory. His hypertext theory/fiction work has appeared in the online publications Perforations, Perihelion, Big Bridge and frAme. Memmott currently works in the multimedia field as Production Director for the web development firm PERCEPTICON and serves as Creative Director for the literary hypermedia journal BeeHive. A new edition of BeeHive is launching October 6/99 featuring work by Reiner Strasser, Michael White, Claine Helen Keily, Jim Andrews, and an archive of the San Jose Valley Poetry Slam Team that BeeHive covered during their cross country tour, which culminated in their winning the national title. Probably several of the contributors to BeeHive will be participating in this launch of both Defib and the new issue of BeeHive. DEFIB Defib shows will be recorded and the transcript produced into a full-blown hypertext available at webartery.com. This turning of the live show into a different form after the fact will create a critical record/document that accompanies the project/works under discussion. Defib will roughly coincide with the launch of Web art projects by the artists of Webartery.com and others. Upcoming shows include Claire Dinsmore and the contributors to her new online magazine Cauldron & Net (Sunday Nov 7, noon PST), Bill Marsh and his new broadcasting project sunbrella.net (Sunday Nov 21, noon PST), and Miekal And and his LinguaMOO collaborative project plus other projects Miekal's collaborating in such as Alan Sondheim's project at Trace (Sunday Dec 5). See http://webartery.com/defib for detailed schedule and other info. DEFIB: http://webartery.com/defib Produced by Dan Waber and Jim Andrews A project of Webartery.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 04:19:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: my work's notice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (This notice is sent periodically to the Cybermind/Fop-l lists - it's hard for people to see what I'm attempting to do in writing/literature/theory/ reading - without books, etc. the best I can do is the mass of materials at the websites - hoping you can read online - Alan - ) --- Internet Philosophy and Psychology - Oct.99 This is a somewhat periodic notice describing my Internet Text, available on the Net, and sent in the form of texts to various lists. The URL is: http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt/ which is partially mirrored at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html. (The first site includes some graphics, dhtml, The Case of the Real, etc.) The changing nature of the email lists, Cybermind and Fiction-of-Philoso- phy, to which the texts are sent individually, hides the full body of the work; readers may not be aware of the continuity among them. The writing may appear fragmented, created piecemeal, splintered from a non-existent whole. On my end, the whole is evident, the texts extended into the lists, part or transitional objects. So this (periodic) notice is an attempt to recuperate the work as total- ity, restrain its diaphanous existence. Below is an updated introduction. ----- The "Internet Text" currently constitutes around 120 files, or 2800 print- ed pages. It began in 1994, and continues as an extended meditation on cyberspace, expanding into 'wild theory' and literatures. Almost all of the text is in the form of short-waves or long-waves. The former are the individually-titled sections, written in a variety of sty- les, at times referencing other writers/theorists. The sections are inter- related; on occasion emanations appear, avatars possessing philosophical or psychological import. They also create and problematize narrative sub- structures within the work as a whole. Such are Julu, Alan, Jennifer, and Nikuko, in particular. Overall, I'm concerned with virtual-real subjectiv- ity and its manifestations, in relation to various philosophical issues. Recently, I've been dealing with dis/ease, the "ill" avatar, and binary operations/processes in relation to transcendence and fragmentation. The long-waves are fuzzy loci bearing on such issues as death, love, vir- tual embodiment, the "granularity of the real," physical reality, computer languages, and protocols. The loci weave throughout the text; the result- ing splits and convergences owe something to phenomenology, programming, deconstruction, linguistics, prehistory, etc., as well as to the function- ings of online worlds in relation to everyday realities. I have used MUDS, MOOS, talkers, perl, d/html, qbasic, linux, emacs, Cu- SeeMe, etc., all tending towards a future of being-and-writing, texts which act and engage beyond traditional reading practices. Some of the work emerges out of performative language such as computer programs which _do_ things; some emerges out of interferences with these programs, or conversations using internet applications that are activated one way or another. (Most recently, I use the "display" program in Slackware linux, for example.) There is no binarism in the texts, no series of definitive statements. Virtuality is considered beyond the text- and web-scapes prevalent now. The various issues of embodiment that will arrive with full-real VR are already in embryonic existence, permitting the theorizing of present and future sites, "spaces," nodes, and modalities of body/speech/community. Please check the INDEX to find your way into the earlier body of the work. The Case of the Real is a sustained work that may be the most useful text of all. It is also helpful to read the first file, Net1.txt, and/or to look at the latest files (lb, lc, etc., which are still to be indexed) as well. Skip around. The Index lists the files in which a particular topic is described; you can then do a search on the file, or simply scroll down (the files range in length from 30 to 50 pages in print). (Note: I have stopped working on the index; for the later files, I suggest you skim. Eventually, I need a site and a local search engine for the texts; at the moment, I apologize for the awkwardness of it all.) The texts may be distributed in any medium; please credit me. I would ap- preciate in return any comments you may have. See also: Being on Line, Net Subjectivity (anthology), Lusitania, 1997 New Observations Magazine #120 (anthology), Cultures of Cyberspace, 1998 The Case of the Real, chapbooks, Potes & Poets Press, 1998 Jennifer, limited edition, Nominative Press Collective, 1997 http://trace.ntu.ac.uk http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/diary/diary.txt Alan Sondheim 718-857-3671 432 Dean Street, Brooklyn, NY, 11217 email: sondheim@panix.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 19:06:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: Cover me rumble In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991008144538.00a5c820@pop3.zipworld.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Announcing the publication of S E A M L E S S A N T I L A N D S C A P E by Leslie Scalapino * * * some older poets say they are finished and say the younger poets are finished as the older poets have finished it the older poets have finished the younger poets are finished say the older poets is it the older poets have received too many compliments? * * * If critique and writing are not separate.... The writing is a 'collapsing' of the distinction between real events and dreams, because my intention was to look at what's happening in the mind then ('real time'?) -- also I was looking at mind in its relation to the real outside (not that the outside has created the mind -- your quoting of Marx -- or that the mind has created the outside). That is, not discriminating as to the cause... The outside 'demonstrating cruelty' then, the writing does not change or talk about the past of the outside -- it marks motions by the writing's sound, people making small motions such as walking on the street. There, they aren't 'expression' of oneself... * * * As if one only wrote an "emblem" of the "postmodernist metropolis" rather than engaging being in Calcutta (or New York -- or Berkeley). In this, I am responding to Marjorie Perloff's essay "The Language Poet as Autobiographer, Ron Silliman's Under Albany" in which choosing one segment from a multi-segmented piece, which I wrote in 1974, in one passage she compares me to Ron Silliman's mature writing (as well as that of Michael Palmer and Barrett Watten)... * * * Critical writing embracing a type of contemporary poetry (much of) which has a radical conceptual and social-political intention, sometimes de-emphasizes or 'changes' the poets' intentions by stressing formal aspects as if these were valuable for their 'form' (in itself) rather than their form being that of a social/conceptual deconstruction taking place. This tends to bring the poet into a lineage as socially 'understandable' and understandable in that it is literary tradition... * * * 'what's the anxiety?': as not being in the state of constant change -- in which there's no fear -- the neck cut out. * * * In an essay on Allen Ginsberg, Marjorie Perloff reinterpreted Howl as not in fact arising from pain -- i.e. not that which is connecting with his time (that's why the present is the most disturbing time, to paraphrase Stein) -- but rather as actually being comic, and now in a different time can be understood to be comic. Calling Ginsberg a "comic bard," she maintains that in that light his work can (should) now be accepted, implying it could not be accepted if we interpret it as arising from pain. There is a filter used there separating form and occurrence, which changes the sense Ginsberg conveys as being that reality... * * * ...from Leslie Scalapino: Seamless Antilandscape, $6 Other Spectacular Books: Tina Celona: Songs & Scores, $6 Juliana Spahr: Spiderwasp or Literary Criticism, $6 Martin Corless-Smith: The Garden. A Theophany or ECCOHOME: A Dialectical Lyric, $6 Books forthcoming by: Rod Smith, Josh May, Prageeta Sharma, Lyn Hejinian, others. * * * Write to: Spectacular Books PO Box 250648 Columbia University Station New York, NY 10025 Signed and numbered sets (of ten) are available for $50. Please make checks payable to Katherine Lederer (Add $1 per book S/H for international orders) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:46:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: New Small Press Publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This week's list of new (or recent) Small Press Publications @ Duration is up. Also included is a catalog supplement featuring innovative works from Ireland. http://www.durationpress.com/announcements/announce.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:40:37 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lawrence Upton." Organization: Mainstream MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Writers Forum announces 6 new publications in the series DOMESTIC AMBIENT NOISE 896 9. best shape, Lawrence Upton / Bob Cobbing, 8 pp B5, vispo, October 1999 897 7. shaping up, Bob Cobbing / Lawrence Upton, 8 pp B5, vispo, October 1999 898 5. NO WONDER, Lawrence Upton / Bob Cobbing, 8 pp B5, vispo, October 1999 899 3. suicide, Bob Cobbing / Lawrence Upton, 8 pp B5, vispo, October 1999 900 0. WEIGHT FOR THE KICK, Lawrence Upton / Bob Cobbing, 8 pp B5, vispo, October 1999 901 9. EXIT, Bob Cobbing / Lawrence Upton, 8 pp B5, vispo, October 1999 Each costs £1 + postage in Uk, discounts for multiple copies etc Enquiries etc with sae / irc to New River Project, 89a Petherton Road, London N5 2QT ---------------------------------------------- Writers Forum http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~writersforum/ ---------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:03:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: New Writing Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, This is an announcement for anyone who might be in or around San Diego in the next couple of months. Here is the schedule for the New Writing Series this fall: Oct. 20 Pam Lu Oct. 25 Barrett Watten Nov. 3 Deanna Ferguson Nov. 12 Tracie Morris Nov. 17 Rae Armantrout and Norman Fischer These readings will be at 4:30 in the Visual Arts Performance Space on the UCSD campus. They are free and open to the public. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 21:35:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris McCreary Subject: Big Allis e-mail address? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello -- I'm looking for an e-mail address for the journal Big Allis. Any help via backchannel would be much appreciated. Thanks -- Chris McCreary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:10:49 -0700 Reply-To: robintm@tf.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Tremblay-McGaw Organization: Trauma Foundation Subject: forum on class & innovative writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The latest issueof HOW2 is now available. http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2/current/index.html You'll find the forum issue on class & innovative writing edited by yours truly and Kathy Lou Schultz, Kathy's essay, "Talking Trash, Talking Class: What's a Working Class Poetic, and Where Would I Find One?"and my piece "Class, Gender, Genre: A Culture bomb, The Letters of Mina Harker by Dodie Bellamy," as well as lots of other great writing on the site. Robin Tremblay-McGaw ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 02:44:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: My Intensity as Cliche (I am exposed!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = My:Intensity:as:Cliche At:night:I:stay:up:worrying:over:disease,:over:the:events:of:the:day, over:the:fury:of:my:obsessive:speed,:over:the:urgency: At:day:I:am:sick:with:worry,:crushed:under:by:the:events:of:the:day, speeding:nowhere:at:all:with:a:sense:of:emergency: I:write:the:urgency,:emergency;:the:speed:and:the:fury:of:nowhere: I:write:the:worry:and:the:disease:in:the:ordinary:events:of:the:day: And:I:think:I:am:the:boy:crying:wolf:in:the:wilderness: And:I:think:I:am:the:girl:crying:fire:in:the:darkened:theater: When:the:wolves:have:been:murdered,:when:the:theater:continues its:unruly:and:maudlin:play: Again:and:again:it:keeps:occurring:to:me::No:one:will:believe:me: It's:just:another:of:Alan's:hysteric:outbursts,:another:text of:despair,:neurosis,:something:teething,:something:teetering: Already:turned:cliche,:empty:of:content,:reeking:of:design: Then:I:think::Shall:I:scream:constantly:into:the:night::What:throws us:into:the:holocaust::What:are:constant:deaths::What:are:Nikuko, Jennifer,:the:others:BEGGING::More:intensity!:More:intensity!: Oh,:shall:I:desert:them!: I:am:your:film::And:the:frame:in:your:film::I:grind:my:teeth: on:the:image::I:teeter:on:the:edge:of:the:sprocket-hole::Oh,:this is:so:typical!::Oh,:he:continues:with:this:nonsense!::Oh!::Oh!::Oh!: ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:52:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Perloff October 20 Comments: To: POETICS@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Buffalo poetics listers: The times below are given in eastern time. If the webcast intrigues you, write to me directly. I will then send you information about how the webcast works.--Al Filreis "Marjorie Perloff, a great detective. The mystery is art of this century. (Who did it? What is it?) -- John Cage "Marjorie Perloff's brilliant, adventurous imagination makes her an ideal guide to the important paradigm shift that has been taking place since modernism." -- Rosmarie Waldrop - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + M a r j o r i e P e r l o f f visits the Kelly Writers House Wednesday, October 20 lecture at 6:30 PM Stein discussion at 4:30 PM (4:30 PM) wide-ranging introductory discussion of Gertrude Stein ---------------------------------------------------------------- With Al Filreis and Bob Perelman, Marjorie Perloff discusses the writing of Gertrude Stein. Although this session is primarily for students in Al Filreis's experimental on-line course on modern & contemporary poetry, others are invited to participate by attending the session at the Writers House or by viewing (and participating) via live webcast. If you want to participate either as a member of the live audience or by webcast, please write to Al Filreis at afilreis@english.upenn.edu (spaces are limited). (6:30 PM) a talk by Marjorie Perloff, "Watchman, Spy and Dead Man: Frank O'Hara, Jasper Johns, and John Cage in the Sixties" ---------------------------------------------------------------- This talk will feature slides and a short video clip of John Cage. No RSVP necessary. The session is free and open to the public. It will not be webcast. Among Marjorie Perloff's books are: Wittgenstein's Ladder Poetry on & off the Page: Essays for Emergent Occasions Postmodern Genres (editor) Poetic License: Essays on Modernist and Postmodernist Lyric Radical Artifice: Writing Poetry in the Age of Media The Futurist Moment: Avant Garde, Avant Guerre & the Language of Rupture The Dance of the Intellect: Studies in the Poetry of the Pound Tradition The Poetics of Indeterminacy Marjorie Perloff is the Sadie Dernham Patek Professor of Humanities at Stanford University, for many years a resident of Los Angeles (formerly a resident of Philadelphia). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:05:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dana Lustig Subject: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips Does anyone know of any critical studies or essays done on Tom Phillips? They can be about his range of works, or specifically about works such as _A Humument_, from either a poetics or an art-historical perspective. (To start, I have looked at the Humument website, and have pulled various newspaper and magazine articles, the most prominent being William Gass' _ArtForum_ essay, but that seems to only touch the tip of the iceberg.) Any help would be very much appreciated. Dana Lisa Lustig dlustig@dttus.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:10:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carrie Etter Subject: Michael Davidson reads at UC Irvine 10/19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On October 19 at 8 p.m., Michael Davidson will give the first reading in the series "Making Strange: The Linguistic Innovations of Four California Poets" in Humanities Instructional Building 135 at UC Irvine. The reading is free, and all are welcome. Send questions about directions, etc. to series director Carrie Etter at caetter@uci.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:56:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Bidart, Taggart to Read Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Poetics List Members, Two public events that I hope some of you will be able to attend... FRANK BIDART --Poetry Reading: Thursday, Oct 14, 5:30, Classics 10 --Talk: "Pre-existing Forms: We fill them and, when we fill them, we change them and are changed," Friday, Oct 15, 3:30, Wieboldt 408 JOHN TAGGART --Poetry Reading: Monday, October 18, 5:30, Classics 10 --Talk: "New Song: Chicago Improvisations," Tuesday, October 19, 3:00, Wieboldt 408 Both Classics and Wieboldt may be entered at 1010 E. 59th St (the archway just east of Ellis Ave). Please e-mail Danielle Allen (dsallen@midway.uchicago.edu) for more information. Regards, Andrew Rathmann Editor ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Check out our new website! http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review Chicago Review 5801 S. Kenwood Ave. Chicago IL 60637 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:22:18 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hoa Nguyen Subject: _Lucky Pup_, by Leslie Davis Comments: cc: skankypossum@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Skanky Possum Press is pleased to announce the release of its second title: _Lucky Pup_, by Leslie Davis. Orders may be placed with Small Press Distribution (http://www.spdbooks.org or 1-800-869-7553). Only $5. Orders and queries also handled here or by writing Skanky Possum at 2925 Higgins St. // Austin TX // 78722. (Checks payable to Hoa Nguyen or Dale Smith.) *** From the back of _Lucky Pup_: Dear Leslie, Just read Lucky Pup again, this time out loud. I ask myself, who’s the Lucky Pup--the one who survived, or the other who gets out? Luck, indeed, determines who gets to tell the story. The survivor leads the way through terror and desire. Anguish yes, but with a new chance to come back to testify on behalf of the beauty and mystery of being alive. "Once the skin is broken there is no other way." You leave the skin behind or you shed the old and reappear scorched with having lived, newly centered, made angelic through death’s touch. Traditionally, the shaman takes the illness of the tribe into him/herself in order to meet the pain in the spirit world where it can be understood, reckoned with. Here, in your poem, there’s a tension between memory and renewal, survival and the future. It’s as if poetry could be an instruction manual, an aid to life. "When we met he had a new tattoo. Two skeletons, dancing. He called them silly guys." The story or poem becomes a deal struck with yourself to look into the past unflinchingly, with a personal and ethical responsibility. These things are not to be forgotten, repressed. But understood, as an absence that co-creates the self. "So struggled into words. Braille golden girl--skin against your energy--continue..." And so perfect here, the image of the blind reading through touch, from the dark, reaching for the unseen. Feeling and meaning combine to reveal, yet it is the continuation of the unknown that somehow stems from personal energy. "I’m the lucky pup. I get to know..." "Teach each other to teach each other to teach each other. The words get used up. Come back to me in my dreams..." Yes. Teaching each other. The only course for the living, for the survival of the tribe. For the self. "Tribal members mark change with a physical marking of the body. Now I’ve got two. This is what I grew into..." This is a simple story, but perhaps the story, the only one that is recycled time and again because of its urgency. The combination of nerve and mind to confront memory with the deep visceral movements of language. The mind and the body of the writer now move on, now do not, experience producing its own kind of shroud at various, unexpected moments. What is it other than temporary survival and teaching others? Which brings us to writing, a kind of sharing of experience, the way the mind feels it. Truth and speech. Past and future through present memory. Dale Smith San Francisco Spring 1995 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:44:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: C.L.R. James -- Call for Papers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not DIRECTLY poetry-related (he only published one sonnet in his career of writing) but ---- >I am organizing a panel on the work of C.L.R. James to be presented at the >American Literature Association, May 25-28. The conference will be held in >Long Beach, CA. > >Papers may address any aspect of the work, life, influence etc. of C.L.R. >James. > >Please send BRIEF email description of proposed paper to: > >Aldon L. Nielsen > >anielsen@LMUMAIL.LMU.EDU > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to cultstud-l as: anielsen@popmail.lmu.edu >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-cultstud-l-8375K@lists.acomp.usf.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:42:33 -0700 Reply-To: Molly Schwartzburg Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Molly Schwartzburg Subject: Re: info on Bei Dao? In-Reply-To: <37FB80DB.836420B8@ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If any Bay Area people are interested in attending, Bei Dao will be reading his poetry as part of the Stanford Presidential lecture series on November 29. You can find the location info on the Stanford web site. The series is usually very well attended, so it's recommended that you arrive early. --Molly Schwartzburg On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, James Brook wrote: > After reading the current Rain Taxi interview with Bei Dao, which > sent me back to his books of poetry, notably the latest, > Landscape Over Zero, I am more and more intrigued by this poet, > whom I once saw read in Paris several years ago. > > Could someone direct me to published criticism or other interviews? > According to Rain Taxi, Bei Dao is teaching at the University of > California at Davis. I wonder if anyone has a more precise address? > > Thanks, > > --James Brook > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:16:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "jerome joy (by way of Kenneth Goldsmith )" Subject: --> revue AUDIOLAB Comments: To: silence@mail2.realtime.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thought this might be of interest to the group. -Kenneth _______ Here is the announcement of the opening of REVUE AUDIOLAB http://homestudio.thing.net/ This review concerns all the composers, musicians and artists and gathers today more than 350 headings about the new investigations and researches in music and sound . The review was built starting from documents resulting from the www since several years, some originals having disappeared, others being moved on other servers and finally the last being still on line. All the articles kept their copyrights of course. The Revue wants to be a place of consultation and center of interest around sound and musical emergences. A search engine integrated into the Revue makes it possible to seek in the whole of the elements (more than 1000, texts and images) starting from key words. Or the consultation can be done starting from the general index. The review wants to be generating, the composers and artists wanting to communicate texts and documents on their search can send their contributions to the Revue . The review wants to be also federative, it's not a plundering of texts, but a gathering of contents and informations, as far as possible the original addresses of the pages are noted in the page of the texts (if some miss, thank you to prevent me). This gathering is carried out to feed reflexions around the new musical and sound investigations, and if these pages were copied and brought back on the server thing.net it is because much of them already disappeared from the original servers and that certainly much of them will disappear progressively with time. The authors can of course claim the removal of their pages integrated in the review. Good reading. jerome joy ... ::: http://homestudio.thing.net/ ::: http://www.cnap-villa-arson.fr/audiolab/ ::: http://www.lascaux2.org/ ... villa arson nice ... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:09:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: the fall ottawa small press book fair / CPA London MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SPAN-O - small press action network - ottawa - presents the fall ottawa small press book fair sunday october 31, 1999 at the glebe community centre, main hall lyon @ second avenue from 11am to 5pm (set up at 10am) tables are $15. full tables only. for catalog, send press name, contact info including email & web info, list of recent titles, how submissions work, etc with a cheque payable to rob mclennan to: SPAN-O, 96 rochester street ottawa k1r 7l8 any questions, contct rob via email. catalog deadline is october 25th. please note: i will be away until october 18th, & will be available only thru email. forward to those who might be interested. -- poet/editor/publisher... ed. STANZAS mag & Written in the Skin (Insomniac) pub., above/ground press...coord., the ottawa small press fair & Ontario rep, The League of Canadian Poets...snail c/o rob mclennan, rr#1 maxville on k0c 1t0 * 4th coll'n, The Richard Brautigan Ahhhhhhhhhhh (Talonbooks) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:10:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre / CPA London MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: CPA London Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 23:59:06 -0400 The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre Videopoem Festival 7:30pm Saturday, November 7, 1999 Video In Studios,1965 Main Street, Vancouver, BC Admission: $10 In this first annual event, Vancouver's own Edgewise ElectroLit Centre will be presenting Videopoems from across Canada and around the world. We have solicited six pieces for one half of the show and have put out an international call for submissions in order to collect a diverse range of work in this fledgling medium. Videopoetry festivals have occurred in places such as Chicago, San Francisco (known as the Cinepoem Festival) and Roma, Italy. This event is the first of its kind in Canada and it is a much needed venue for the presentation of Canadian work in this genre. Solicited work for this year's festival features: Down Here, Bud Osborn (James Riley, Producer) Verbomotorhead (Kedrick James, Producer) Jill Battson (Jill Battson, Producer) Chinese Cucumbers, Patricia Smith (Kurt Heintz, Producer) Jason Le Heup (Jason Le Heup, Producer) The goals of this festival are both to develop an audience for this genre in Canada and the creation of an environment of exchange and learning among artists. To this latter end, we have invited experienced producer, poet and media artist, Jill Battson of Toronto, ON to speak at the festival on the origins of the genre, its forms, and on the artistic and cultural context in which it can flourish. Funding for The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre Videopoem Festival has been received from the Canada Council for the Arts and is produced in partnership with Video In Studios, Vancouver, BC. The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre is a nonprofit society whose mandate is to exploit communications technology to widen the audience of Canadian poetry and to give poets, multi-media artists and youth the opportunity to use, learn, and create with this technology. Videoconferencing and online publishing are the major technologies that we work with. Our electronic magazine can be viewed and heard at . Poets featured with audio include Adeena Karasick, Wayde Compton, bill bissett and Sheri-D Wilson. We also publish videopoems online and are hosting Canadas first Videopoem Festival at Video In Studios this fall. For more information, please call Carol L. Hamshaw, Administrator, at 904-9362/984-1712, or via email at CL_Hamshaw@bc.sympatico.ca Steven R. Duncan Poet, Publisher, founding member of the notorious "Ducktape Platypus Poets Coalition". Solo Performances: Friday, Oct 1 Generous Margins Small Press Fair The Wise Club 9:30pm Listen to Wax Poetic with Diane Laloge and S.R. Duncan every Wednesday at 2pm on Co-op Radio 102.7 fm And, The "New and Improved" Vancouver Poetry Slam First and third Monday of every month Cafe Deux Soliel 2096 Commercial Dr. SPECIAL EVENT Wednesday, November 3 Cafe Deux Soliel 2096 Commercial Drive "VERBAL TRANSMISSIONS" A benefit for spoken word on Co-op Radio Stay tuned for more details. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:10:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: canadian poets online / CPA London MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing the opening of: 'writing canada into the millennium: canadian poets online' This University of Calgary English Department electronic project provides an organized guide to the chronological, geographical, and publication histories of selected Twentieth-Century Canadian poets. Our goal is to provide the public and the University community with an organized pedagogical tool to assist research on the history and contemporary concerns of Canadian poetry. We can be found at: http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/faculties/HUM/ENGL/canada/ Please pass on to whomever may be interested. For further information, contact: rrickey@ucalgary.ca, thyland@ucalgary.ca or rndavis@ucalgary.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:09:56 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd much appreciate your posting whatever you find out about critical reaction to the work of Tom Phillips. I doubt that there's much, for the same reason there's almost nothing out there about ANY genuine visual poets. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:13:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: r e a d m e / Sullivan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: "Gary Sullivan" Date: 10/6/99, 1:40 PM -0400 Hello everyone, r e a d m e is now up: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/history/detour/readme I n t e r v i e w s Charles Bernstein (by Bradford Senning) Mary Burger (by Jacques Debrot) Jeff Clark (by Jordan Davis) Nada Gordon (by Gary Sullivan) Randolph Healy (by Robert Archambeau) Kent Johnson (by John Bradley) Rebecca Levi (by GS) Ange Mlinko (by GS) Alan Sondheim (by GS) E s s a y s Jack Kimball on John Wieners Kimberly Lyons on Women and the Poetry Project Alan Sondheim's "" or Practice P o e t r y Daniel Davidson's Last Poems Nada Gordon "essay" Joel Lewis "The Pethro Poems" Kimberly Lyons "Concordonnance" Alan Sondheim "Selected Works" R e v i e w s Nada Gordon on Andrea Brady's Liberties Jeffrey Jullich on Aaron Shurin's Paradise of Forms Ramez Qureshi on J.H. Prynne's Collected Poems Gerald Schwartz on Kamau Brathwaite Heather Fuller on Jeff Conant A S p e c i a l S e c t i o n o n D a n i e l D a v i d s o n w i t h w r i t i n g b y George Albon Bruce Andrews Dodie Bellamy & Kevin Killian Jeff Conant Beverly Dahlen & Kevin Killian Greg Fuchs Benjamin Friedlander Colleen Lookingbill Aldon Nielsen Charles Pollack Gary Sullivan Jordan Zorker L i n k s Links to bios, interviews with and work by more than 400 20th century "non-mainstream" authors (constantly updated; feel free to suggest further URLs). r e a d m e is a quarterly online journal of poetics featuring interviews, essays and reviews germane to contemporary poetry. Poetry published only in tandem with author interviews and/or critical prose, except in cases of poem-as-reading/critique. Queries welcome. A letters page will be included in subsequent issues. Please send all queries and correspondence via email: gps12@columbia.edu or to Gary Sullivan, 558 11th Street, #1B, Brooklyn, NY 11215. Next issue: Interviews with Hoa Nguyen, Laurie Price, Rod Smith, and more .. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:14:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Carla Harryman's THE WORDS / Scalapino MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: "Thos J White" Date: 10/10/99, 11:39 AM -0700 Just out: Carla Harryman's THE WORDS/AFTER CARL SANDBURG'S ROOTABAGA STORIES AND JEAN-PAUL SARTRE (O Books, $12:00, ISBN # 1-882022-39-4; distributed by Small Press Distribution, 1341 Seventh Street, Berkeley, CA 94710, phone 800-869-7553) In this challenge to the separation of literary genres, Carla Harryman takes as her points of departure two entirely disparate texts. Exploding Jean-Paul Sartre's ideal of imagined autonomy, in his autobiography THE WORDS, and inspired by the grostesque play of Sandburg's ROOTABAGA STORIES, Harryman begins with her own account of an impossible and contemporary childhood. In a world of recollected futurity, nihilists, chairs, amazons, ghosts, and spool bablies, "We, the stranded" concoct their illusions of spontaneous creativity. "At last, children's literature has been liberated, liberated into fiction! Carla Harryman's WORDS is a fiction in which the mischief is perpetually unnaming names in an ongoing discursive cross-wind beneficial to hybridizing texts. Bold and subversive." -- Marjorie Welish "THE WORDS is not one novel, but many. Its economics are libidinal, luxuriant, and layered: part roman fleuve, in which the first generation born in the 'artificial jungles' of the Cold War comes of age 'on the border that separates the absurd from the socially constructed reality,' part roman a clef, in which every word will instantly recognize itself and every fly allusion find its author in eternity, and part philosophical romance in the mode of the later Wittgenstein, who proposed that 'the double cross and the duck-rabbit might be among the spots [on] a wall covered with spots.' And, because 'shadows dream in their niches,' this is finally a utopian novel, everywhere transforming 'defeat into rapture.' In (and with) THE WORDS, Carla Harryman has written a postmodern classic. It's the book to take along to the proverbially deserted island." -- Ted Pearson "A child touches a flower. Then a tip of air moves to fill the space moving a leg apart from a leg. Slightly apart, the legs will promise a little breeze to the part. A seamless song stays the tip of an invective against the child's mother. One can't see the mirror on the tip of a flower. The cool child is father to the man The hard child is mother to the man The quiet child is mother to the woman The burning child is father to the woman" -- Carla Harryman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:50:26 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Re: Cover me rumble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Kathy I'm reviewing for CHELSEA Leslie S's new WEsleyan book, THE PUBLIC WORLD ...would you like me to include your publication of S. If so, do send it along rather quickly. Wonderful that you're doing so much. Best Harriet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:28:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Molly Schwartzburg Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips Comments: To: Bob Grumman In-Reply-To: <38025224.3335@nut-n-but.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've found almost nothing at all on Phillips on the literature end of things, though on the art end there are reviews and catalogs of individual shows. There is a selected bibliography in the catalog for an exhibition at North Carolina Museum of Art: Huston Paschal, _Tom Phillips: Selections from the Ruth and Marvin Sackner Archive of Concrete and Visual Poetry_. Raleigh: North Carolina Museum of Art, 1990. I am currently working on Phillips and would also appreciate any suggestions. --Molly Schwartzburg On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Bob Grumman wrote: > I'd much appreciate your posting whatever you find out about critical > reaction to the work of Tom Phillips. I doubt that there's much, for > the same reason there's almost nothing out there about ANY genuine > visual poets. > > --Bob G. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 02:52:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: than Flode MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE - than Flode =E6fter than flode; the from Drihtene com. =20 the al her a-quelde; quic that he funde. buten Noe.& Sem; Iaphet & Cham. & heore four wiues;=20 the mid heom weren on archen. heore twa wiues Nikuko & Julu the mid heom weren in Stromland heore twa wiues Jennifer & Azure the mid heom weren in Neuland buten transieram celerem nebuloso flumine Nauam addita miratus ueteri noua moenia Vinco, whar ar yar far wavas Alan, what ar ya far Alan whar ar Azara & Noe. Alan, whar ar tha flaad y am ma far wavas Sem, ma far wavas wath ma y am wath tha fllad Noe., ma far wavas alsa fra Drihtene com tha ranas & tha fraggas twa fra Gaddas laff cam Jannifar & har far wavas ta laff wath Gaddas sa marrie ta bee wath mannes sa cantrarie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:07:24 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Bromige's beard In-Reply-To: <000601bf0f88$4350c940$17000001@doswlan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >the true motive >for my avowed "great pleasure" in introducing David Bromige during the group >reading at the same event. (Though, it's true, I have as much admiration for >his work as for his beard - I feel that it is necessary to say something about Bromige's beard. It is not his beard at all! He stole it from me during one of his fly-by-night visits up the coast. I am glad to see that it is arousing admiration among USAmerican poets and others. But I would like it back. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:18:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Randy Prunty Subject: poetry in Charlotte North Carolina? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'll be visiting family in charlotte, nc from oct 27 to oct 31. does anyone know of interesting poetry events there during this time? anyone know of any interesting poets who live in charlotte? back channel i guess randy prunty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:46:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Situationist translations and index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain i thought some of you poetix folk might be interested in this > -----Original Message----- > From: Bureau of Public Secrets [SMTP:knabb@slip.net] > Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 11:11 PM > To: Bureau of Public Secrets > Subject: Situationist translations and index > > The SITUATIONIST INTERNATIONAL ANTHOLOGY has now been completely > retranslated and uploaded. The original book translations were quite > accurate, but the new online versions are clearer and more idiomatic. > > They are also easier to work with because the BPS website now has a > comprehensive index, with over 2000 name and subject entries, covering > every person mentioned, every revolt and revolution (chronologically and > by country), and hundreds of other topics from anarchism to Zen. > > Check it out at http://www.slip.net/~knabb/index1.htm > > > * * * > > BUREAU OF PUBLIC SECRETS > P.O. Box 1044, Berkeley CA 94701, USA > knabb@slip.net > http://www.slip.net/~knabb > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:31:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture Comments: To: RanPrunty@aol.com Comments: cc: Dana Lisa Lustig , dlustig@dttus.com, jbs@mmmlaw.com, "Lowther,John" , sonora@dynamite.com.au, langpochik@netscape.net, tedd.mulholland@gte.net, Colleen Dunne , bmcgrat@learnlink.emory.edu, kphillips@bankersbank.com In-Reply-To: <0.1e995610.2533a28e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We have an extrememly lively local poets group here in Atlanta, which recently has begun discussing issues quite actively by e-mail, supplementary to our frequent local get-togethers... The post below started as a response to something the atanta poet Randy Prunty had posted, commenting on an Atlanta figure who is big on the local "slam" scene....As it progressed, it grew against my initial intentions into an offhand review of Christopher Beach's excellent new book, Poetic Culture. Soon i had written so many of my thoughts down that i figured it might make sense to share 'em with a larger grouping...So i am posting this to both the Atlanta group and the Buffalo List. --Mark Prejsnar (p.s. By the way, the mentions toward the beginning of this post of "our kind of writing" etc. are addressed to my initial audience, the 11 or 12 members of the Atlanta Poets Group; anyone interested in what that kind of writing is, can check out a large selection of our work in the current New Orleans Review, and in a special issue of Mirage #4 that will be out fairly soon....) The new book by C. Beach is very interesting.... From a point of view that is very sympathetic to our kind of writing, he tries nonetheless to talk about "what is happening" both sociologically and artistically in U.S. poetry right now.... Two of the chapters are in-depth discussions of the slam scene, and are very informative. Beach tries to start from the point of view that there is no "wrong" school to be in..and so compares slam, workshop, and our kind of writing, attempting to be "fair". For instance in another chapter he examines the career and work of workshop maven Stephen Dobyns in comparison to the career and work of Lyn Hejinian... (he comes to the conclusion that, without prior prejudice about which type of poetry is "good" and which "bad," Dobyns is a fairly weak poet and Hejinian a pretty good one....Which makes sense to me; ...Most people wd. suspect his claim to be so "without prejudice" about overall styles to start with... But i think he would argue that he is reaching conclusions about the relative strength of different contemporary camps..not starting out with them. And this claim to some extent is backed-up by his treatment of slam work, which he like a whole lot more than workshop, and treats with considerable respect.) There are lots of weaknesses: apart from the fact that he makes an effort to be respectful and enthusiastic about the slam scene, thus giving more credit to shallow, silly work (in many instances) than it deserves, he also makes certain theoretical moves that i believe are confused (but are pretty uiversally agreed to on today's scene) He uses the phrase "avant-garde" or else "experimental" about once a page, in a 200 page book; and he believes that people like Bernstein, Mackey, Silliman, Coolidge, belong to an "oppositional avant-garde" whose main raison d'etre is to be against all mainstream culture and the social system, and also to exist as a cohesive group (to at least some significant extent)...Thus he claims that "post-language experimental poets," whom he represents by "Writing from the New Coast," the O-Blek anthology, are terribly confused and are floundering because they are not as cohesive a group, and do not write as much theory, and do not have as much politix, or as confident a sense of where they fit in history or of their mission, as the previous generation. In other words, he really (at the end) seems to lose track of questions regarding what their poetry is like, and how good it is, because he is caught up in questions of whether these newer poets can play institutional and public-relations games with success.... I believe this confusion on Beach's part comes from two things: the "sociological" slant of much of his book (which is its strength by the way, in part, but which ends up causing a certain obsession with the p.r. aspects of poetry's public life); and his commitment to the old concepts of "avant-garde" and "experimental", which have in a way outlived thier usefulness. (For instance, i have been reflecting recently on the how much "camps" have become institutionalized, in a way that is inflexible: the generation of Perelman, Silliman et al. use "avant-garde" and "experimental" all the time, in discussing contemporary work, and this is also a broad general practice today.... But previous generations of U.S. poets whsoe work was challenging and mold-breaking, such as the generation of Pound, Williams, Zukofsky, Stein, or the generation of Olson, Duncan and Spicer, did not so identify themselves...They thought of what they were doing as "poetry," and aspired to have it seen as the strongest and most exciting work being done in their time.,...It didn't occur to them to saddle themselves with ghettoizing labels... What i feel strongly is that we have to get back to that mindset... For the kind of work represented by the APG and many people on the BuffaList, is simply the best work being done in the U.S. ... and i question whether we want to continue to police the boundaries by using these terms...) --mark prejsnar ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:23:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Announcing Outlet (4/5) Weathermap Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Outlet (4/5) Weathermap 92 pp double issue featuring - New Poetry and Prose by: Norma Cole Sarah Anne Cox Noah de Lissovoy Patrick F. Durgin Taj Jackson Jeffrey Jullich Pamela Lu Michael Magee Sarah Mangold Chris McCreary Gwyn McVay Michelle Murphy Susan Smith Nash Stephen Ratcliffe Christopher Reiner Camille Roy Kathy Lou Schultz E. Cameron Scott Heather Sweeney John Tranter Elizabeth Treadwell Liz Waldner + Reportage: An Interview: Kathleen Fraser's "Provisional Answers to Some Questions" by Sarah Anne Cox A History: "Publishing a Community: Women Publishers at the Poetry Project" by Marcella Durand & Reviews: Jacques Debrot on Laynie Browne's _The Agency of Wind_, Linda Russo on Susan Gevirtz's _Black Box Cutaway_, Charles Alexander on Jessica Grim's _Fray_. $5 -- cheap! -- checks to E. Treadwell -- Excerpts from this & previous issues are featured at our website: http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy Outlet c/o Double Lucy Books P.O. Box 9013 Berkeley, California 94709 USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear subscribers & contributors: your copies will be mailed this weekend (10/16). Pls. contact me -- soon -- if your address has changed since we last corresponded. Thx. -ET ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:07:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On a related note - does anyone have any leads on critical writings pertaining to Phillips' sparse-but-fascinating output as a composer? Taylor Brady -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Molly Schwartzburg Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 4:28 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips I've found almost nothing at all on Phillips on the literature end of things, though on the art end there are reviews and catalogs of individual shows. There is a selected bibliography in the catalog for an exhibition at North Carolina Museum of Art: Huston Paschal, _Tom Phillips: Selections from the Ruth and Marvin Sackner Archive of Concrete and Visual Poetry_. Raleigh: North Carolina Museum of Art, 1990. I am currently working on Phillips and would also appreciate any suggestions. --Molly Schwartzburg ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:27:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kenneth Goldsmith Subject: ___ U B U W E B : NEW RESOURCES OCTOBER 1999___ Comments: cc: silence@lists.realtime.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ___ U B U W E B___VISUAL, CONCRETE + SOUND POETRY___ =09=09 http://www.ubu.com NEW RESOURCES OCTOBER 1999 HISTORICAL Aram Saroyan, USA, Flower Power (essay, 1999) Jacques Villegl=E9, France, Affiches 1960s-1980s SOUND Antonin Artaud Ali=E9nation et Magie Noire (1946) Robert Ashley, USA In Sara Mencken, Christ and Beethoven there were men and women Erik Belgum, USA Bad Marriage Mantra ee cummings, USA Two Sound Poems Francis E. Dec, Esq., USA Fran=E7ois Dufr=EAne, France Ouverture san Fin (1976) Oyvind Fahlstr=F6m, Sweden Brion Gysin Sound Poems and Lectures 1960-1981 Fluxus Anthology 18 Artist's Soundworks (1962-1989) Raoul Hausmann, Austria Sound Poetry (1918 / 1959) Richard Hulsenback Phantastische Gebet=E9 (1916 / 1967) James Joyce Anna Livia Plurabelle (rec. 1929) Phil Minton A Doughnut in One Hand (1998) Narrative Poetry from The Black Oral Tradition 1964-1966 Ben Patterson Early Works, 1960-1995 Pierre Schaeffer Solfege de l'objet Sonore, 1966 (Complete) Poesia Sonora Do fonetismo =E0s po=E9ticas contempor=E2neas de voz, Brazil (1996) Sound Poetry Today An International Compilation (1998) Demetrio Stratos Cantare La Voce, 1978 Tristan Tzara Pour Compte (1949) CONTEMPORARY Bill Luoma, Hawaii Imagiste / Moisty Brian Kim Stefans, NYC, NY, USA, The Naif and the Bluebells PAPERS George Brecht, USA Something about Fluxus Henry Flynt, USA George Maciunas and My Collaboration With Him Abraham Lincoln Gillespie, USA Eugen Gomringer, Switzerland 1. From Line To Constellation 2. Concrete Poetry 3. Max Bill and Concrete Poetry 4. The Poem As A Functional Object Dick Higgins, USA In a Mine Boatdestroyer Around the World, or Some Remarks on Fluxus Noigandres Group, Brazil Pilot Plan for Concrete Poetry Pierre Schaeffer, France Treatise on Musical Objects Mary Ellen Solt, USA Concrete Poetry: A World View (Indiana University Press, 1968) Emmett Williams, USA The Stars & Stripes ___ U B U W E B___VISUAL, CONCRETE + SOUND POETRY___ =09=09 http://www.ubu.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:45:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Subject: Re: poetry in Charlotte North Carolina? In-Reply-To: <0.4cf60f78.25348f2a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hard to supress a snicker at the very idea of this subject line. It's enough of a desert here in Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. Of course, if there IS anything I would like to know too. Thirsty, David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Kellogg Duke University kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Program in Writing and Rhetoric (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:56:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mark, I haven't read Beach's new book but I was disappointed in -- even pissed off by -- the chapter on Hejinian and Dobyns when it came out in Contemporary Literature. If I recall, it made a few perfunctory gestures in the direction of sociology (e.g., Bourdieu) and then went off into a wholly predictable close reading of the two poets in which Hejinian clearly comes off the "winner." For all the sociological posturing, this struck me a pointless exercise and an insult to the sociology of poetry. Maybe the rest of the book is better, I'll have to see. Cheers, David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Kellogg Duke University kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Program in Writing and Rhetoric (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:36:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Molly Schwartzburg wrote: > I've found almost nothing at all on Phillips on the literature end of > things, though on the art end there are reviews and catalogs of > individual shows. There is a chapter on Phillips in Heather McHugh's _Broken English: Poetry and Partiality_ (Wesleyan, 199?) Cheers, David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Kellogg Duke University kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Program in Writing and Rhetoric (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:05:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brendan Lorber Subject: OUTDOORS WITH E.MYLES/B.LORBER/M.LEVOVE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Why hello there. I hope you can make it to... The final poetry reading of the millenium in THE POETS IN THE GARDEN READING SERIES is this Sunday, October 17, 5pm in the 6th and B Community Garden, at 6th Street and Avenue B in Manhattan. It's FREE! The readers are: MINDY LEVOVE, the poet/musician who curated the Community Garden Reading Series for six years. Her work has been published in Clown War and Journal for Speculative Poetry, and she has composed & performed music for Landfill Gardeners of Gondwanaland, among others. BRENDAN LORBER, the editor/publisher of LUNGFULL! Magazine. Printing both the rough drafts & final versions of writer's work, the magazine explores the creative process. His chapbook, The Address Book is due out soon from The Owl Press. He's also cocurator at the Zinc Bar Sunday Night Reading Series and The Double Happiness Reading Series. EILEEN MYLES, the winner of a 1999 NYFA grant and the author of Chelsea Girls and School of Fish. She recently completed her first novel, Cool for You. The reading starts PROMPTLY at 5pm, and will be moved under the canopy in case of rain. Poets in the Garden reading series is put together by Maggie Dubris. Eileen Myles is an artists fellowship recipient of the New York Foundation For The Arts. These presentations are co-sponsered by Artists & Audiences Exchange, a public service program of the New York Foundation For The Arts. Will I see rugged, vigorous you in the garden this sunday? Yes? All & only the best, brendan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:33:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Randy Prunty Subject: Phillips, Beach, Charlotte MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi david. found it interesting that you happened to respond to three things on the list and they all are related to folks here in atlanta. and there's a fourth member (besides me, dana lustig, and mark prejsnar) of the atlanta poetry group that i think you know: james sanders its a small world and i'm snickering too randy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:55:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Zauhar Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, David Kellogg wrote: > Mark, I haven't read Beach's new book but I was disappointed in -- even > pissed off by -- the chapter on Hejinian and Dobyns when it came out in > Contemporary Literature. If I recall, it made a few perfunctory gestures > in the direction of sociology (e.g., Bourdieu) and then went off into a > wholly predictable close reading of the two poets in which Hejinian > clearly comes off the "winner." For all the sociological posturing, this > struck me a pointless exercise and an insult to the sociology of poetry. > Maybe the rest of the book is better, I'll have to see. > > Cheers, > David Bourdieu makes a few cameos, mostly in footnotes. Insightful and concise every time, but some development would be helpful. Personally, I came to the book with the same predispositions concerning Dobyns and Hejinian as Beach displays. When Mark Presjner writes of this section of Beach's book that... ---------------------------------------------------- MP: in another chapter he examines the career and work of workshop maven Stephen Dobyns in comparison to the career and work of Lyn Hejinian... (he comes to the conclusion that, without prior prejudice about which type of poetry is "good" and which "bad," Dobyns is a fairly weak poet and Hejinian a pretty good one....Which makes sense to me; ...Most people wd. suspect his claim to be so "without prejudice" about overall styles to start with... But i think he would argue that he is reaching conclusions about the relative strength of different contemporary camps..not starting out with them. And this claim to some extent is backed-up by his treatment of slam work, which he like a whole lot more than workshop, and treats with considerable respect.) ------------------------------------------------------ ... I generally agree: he lets slammers get away with things that Dobyns pays for rather dearly. But I can't find where Beach says that he's approaching Dobyns and Hejinian without prejudice. In the intro, Beach writes "I have at times stated my own aesthetic criteria and preferences quite strongly, as in teh comparison of the `mainstream' academic poet Stephen Dobyns and the experimentalist Lyn Hejinian {hmmmm, why no scare quotes around the equally dubious term "experimentalist"?}, and in my critiques of poetry anthologies and academic creative writing programs. While my intent has been to write a book that is synthetic and open-minded rather than narrowly partisan, I do believ that certain sectors of American poetic culture have been more successful than others in articulaint new perspectives and in generating innovative formal and cognitive structures..."(17-8) Which is why the point that David Kennedy raises is interesting: is it possible to have (and express) one's own aesthetic preferences without insulting the sociology of poetry? And if so, who are some of the critics who pull it off? Asking out of curiousity, not hostility, petulance, etc. David Zauhar ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:09:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Mark -- I applaud your last thought here, about losing the terms "avant-garde" -- it does create more ghettoization I think. Did you ever publish the excerpts from "The Story of O" that you were once interested in? Is Misc Proj even a going concern anymore? Best, Joe -----Original Message----- From: Mark Prejsnar [mailto:mprejsn@LAW.EMORY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 8:31 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture We have an extrememly lively local poets group here in Atlanta, which recently has begun discussing issues quite actively by e-mail, supplementary to our frequent local get-togethers... The post below started as a response to something the atanta poet Randy Prunty had posted, commenting on an Atlanta figure who is big on the local "slam" scene....As it progressed, it grew against my initial intentions into an offhand review of Christopher Beach's excellent new book, Poetic Culture. Soon i had written so many of my thoughts down that i figured it might make sense to share 'em with a larger grouping...So i am posting this to both the Atlanta group and the Buffalo List. --Mark Prejsnar (p.s. By the way, the mentions toward the beginning of this post of "our kind of writing" etc. are addressed to my initial audience, the 11 or 12 members of the Atlanta Poets Group; anyone interested in what that kind of writing is, can check out a large selection of our work in the current New Orleans Review, and in a special issue of Mirage #4 that will be out fairly soon....) The new book by C. Beach is very interesting.... From a point of view that is very sympathetic to our kind of writing, he tries nonetheless to talk about "what is happening" both sociologically and artistically in U.S. poetry right now.... Two of the chapters are in-depth discussions of the slam scene, and are very informative. Beach tries to start from the point of view that there is no "wrong" school to be in..and so compares slam, workshop, and our kind of writing, attempting to be "fair". For instance in another chapter he examines the career and work of workshop maven Stephen Dobyns in comparison to the career and work of Lyn Hejinian... (he comes to the conclusion that, without prior prejudice about which type of poetry is "good" and which "bad," Dobyns is a fairly weak poet and Hejinian a pretty good one....Which makes sense to me; ...Most people wd. suspect his claim to be so "without prejudice" about overall styles to start with... But i think he would argue that he is reaching conclusions about the relative strength of different contemporary camps..not starting out with them. And this claim to some extent is backed-up by his treatment of slam work, which he like a whole lot more than workshop, and treats with considerable respect.) There are lots of weaknesses: apart from the fact that he makes an effort to be respectful and enthusiastic about the slam scene, thus giving more credit to shallow, silly work (in many instances) than it deserves, he also makes certain theoretical moves that i believe are confused (but are pretty uiversally agreed to on today's scene) He uses the phrase "avant-garde" or else "experimental" about once a page, in a 200 page book; and he believes that people like Bernstein, Mackey, Silliman, Coolidge, belong to an "oppositional avant-garde" whose main raison d'etre is to be against all mainstream culture and the social system, and also to exist as a cohesive group (to at least some significant extent)...Thus he claims that "post-language experimental poets," whom he represents by "Writing from the New Coast," the O-Blek anthology, are terribly confused and are floundering because they are not as cohesive a group, and do not write as much theory, and do not have as much politix, or as confident a sense of where they fit in history or of their mission, as the previous generation. In other words, he really (at the end) seems to lose track of questions regarding what their poetry is like, and how good it is, because he is caught up in questions of whether these newer poets can play institutional and public-relations games with success.... I believe this confusion on Beach's part comes from two things: the "sociological" slant of much of his book (which is its strength by the way, in part, but which ends up causing a certain obsession with the p.r. aspects of poetry's public life); and his commitment to the old concepts of "avant-garde" and "experimental", which have in a way outlived thier usefulness. (For instance, i have been reflecting recently on the how much "camps" have become institutionalized, in a way that is inflexible: the generation of Perelman, Silliman et al. use "avant-garde" and "experimental" all the time, in discussing contemporary work, and this is also a broad general practice today.... But previous generations of U.S. poets whsoe work was challenging and mold-breaking, such as the generation of Pound, Williams, Zukofsky, Stein, or the generation of Olson, Duncan and Spicer, did not so identify themselves...They thought of what they were doing as "poetry," and aspired to have it seen as the strongest and most exciting work being done in their time.,...It didn't occur to them to saddle themselves with ghettoizing labels... What i feel strongly is that we have to get back to that mindset... For the kind of work represented by the APG and many people on the BuffaList, is simply the best work being done in the U.S. ... and i question whether we want to continue to police the boundaries by using these terms...) --mark prejsnar ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:23:37 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: PANTS MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT 1998-99 winner of the Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Contest Ruth Anderson Barnett, editor of the Marlboro Review chose PANTS by Shelley Stenhouse. 40 pages. Exciting retro cover. ---------------- IF YOU GO OUT FOR FAKE BEER AND NEVER COME BACK who will click keys in the door, stack the towels on the too-high shelf, talk to the plumber while he works, sleep on the right side of the bed? How dare you leave and not take your smell with you? “Your thigh is cool,” you said, “like a puddle on a basement floor.” The brown mole on your sad thin back, your narrow shoulders and crooked smile, your unopened mail. I never even gave you a drawer. (You kept your big plastic suitcase under the bed.) I will rope off your work boots like a museum, draw a chalk line around your dirty T-shirt where it fell. I loiter at the patch of once wet sidewalk where you carved your initials with a straw. Someday I will pass that spot and not think about you at all. Then I will pack your plastic suitcase and put it on the street. Soon I'll see a bum wearing your old shoes. -------- Shelley Stenhouse's fiction and poetry have appeared in The Antioch Review, Third Coast, Mudfish, and other publications. Her work has been nominated for a Pushcart Prize and excerpted in Poet's Market. She received an MFA in fiction from Vermont College, was a 1998 and 1999 resident of Yaddo, and is an ongoing member of the Writers Room, where she is completing her first novel. She wrote and performed a one-woman show in 1989. Shelley was born in Chicago, and now lives in Greenwich Village with her daughter, Daisygreen. The poems in Shelley Stenhouse’s Pants emerge from a childhood of privilege, one in which the speaker’s father “president of something downtown / at thirty five,” teaches her this primary ethic “You do what you do, you do it-- / Christ, you just do what you want”-- and she learns from her other how to squander the body on sex and booze, as though it were limitless cash. In vivid scenes, he poems show how powerful these parental lessons are, as the speaker’s own adolescence and then adulthood replay the drama of promiscuity, alcohol and drug use, and emotional alienation. In spite of legacy enacted here, the voice refuses the easy answers of tabloid and talk show sterotypes. Under the poet’s unrelenting reguard, these sinners (father, mother, self) are revisited through metaphors that reveal how complex human choice and action are, and through a music that captures “that moment before things turn, that moment / when something sings...” Ruth Anderson Barnett Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award Series ISBN 1-886350-87-6 Price: $6.00 Checks to: Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 or SPD The Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award was established in 1995 to promote writers whose work challenges conventions of contemporary poetry while encouraging multiple readings. Writers world-wide are invited to participate. Each year, one manuscript is selected by a writer with a thorough familiarity of the small press realm. Publication, a prize of five hundred dollars, and ten percent of the book run is awarded to the winner. Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:16:11 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >I've found almost nothing at all on Phillips on the literature end of >things, though on the art end there are reviews and catalogs of >individual shows. >Huston Paschal, _Tom Phillips: Selections from the Ruth and Marvin Sackner >Archive of Concrete and Visual Poetry_. Raleigh: North Carolina Museum of >Art, 1990. > >I am currently working on Phillips and would also appreciate any >suggestions. >--Molly Schwartzburg > the ruth and marvin sackner archive might your best bet they have a large collection of phillips see: www.rediscov.com/sackner.htm or maybe you could e-mail marvin for info if you haven't his e-mail address then you can ask me off-list//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:04:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu Subject: west coast line rescue program... Comments: To: Derek Beaulieu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as many of you have no doubt heard, West Coast Line is in trouble and needs our support. i told the folks at WCL that i would do anything i could to help save them - if you are interested have a look at the contact names and numbers at the end of this message. thanks for you patience yrs derek beaulieu housepress *** FROM WEST COAST LINE: over the years, WCL has featured Here and There: Between South Asias; Transporting the Emporium: Hong Kong Art and Writing Through the Ends of Time; and North: New African Canadian Writing. The journal has honoured Canadians like the Tish poets, Phyllis Webb, Warren Tallman, Roy Kiyooka and bpNichol. We have done community outreach, like the 1998 Beyond the H Orizon: bpNichol + 10 conference and the 1997 SiteLines writers' retreat, not to mention lots of readings. West Coast Line needs your help. Our funding has just been radically cut, leaving us without operating funds for the winter. Next year's funding looks promising, but right now, unless we can raise $10,000, we'll have to close down. Please help us prevent an untimely demise. If you can, please choose a 'rescue' option : Sincerely, Miriam Nichols, Editor THE OFFICIAL "RESCUE WEST COAST LINE" DONATION PROGRAM Everyone who donates will be named in our next issue. We appreciate your support! o Friend $50 tax receipt & a 1 year free subscription; o Donor $100 tax receipt & a 2 year free subscription; o Patron $200 tax receipt, a 2 year free subscription & any 3 back issues o Saint $500 tax receipt, a 2 year free subscription, any 3 back issues & a complete set of Line, WCL's modernist predecessor; o Fairy Godperson $1000 tax receipt, a 3 year free subscription, a free gift subscription, any 3 back issues & a complete set of Line. Donation Methods: mail: West Coast Line, 2027 East Annex, SFU, Burnaby BC V5A 1S6 phone: 604-291-4287 fax: 604-291-4622 online: www.sfu.ca/west-coast-line email: wcl@sfu.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:57:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" in reference to dobyns mark, we're all marked on a curve and dobyns may be one of them but he's one of the best of them, the other children of mallarme, the franco-americans. levine, kinnel,piercy, willard, merwin, bidart, oliver, bly, hannigan, where's paul hannigan? fanny howe , ray carver,wendell berry, richard hugo, c.d.wright, ammons, haines, stern. brock-broido gilbert, , gluck, charles wright, jorie grahame, sextonists, loganistas, roethkeites, they're transcendentalists, emerzen and aughthorn their diogenes, bad as they may be, they are graaaaaaaate poets compared to 98% of the Web De Sol say or the chicago review. we're not sharpening any machetes are we mark? the audience is vast we couldn't satisfy the demand if they ceased to produce those them nobody rereads charles bernstein at the race track billy meowsie tongue little forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:41:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: LEST WE FORGET, A MORALITY PLAY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - LEST WE FORGET, A MORALITY PLAY BY JENNIFER, NIKUKO, JULU, AND ALAN PROLOGUE BY BUKHARIN: Repentence is often attributed to the Dostoyevsky mind, to the specific properties ofthe soul ("l'ame slave" as it is called), and this can be said of types like Alyosha Karamazov, the heroes of the "Idiot" and other Dostoyevsky characters, who are prepared to stand up in the public square and cry: "Beat me, Orthodox Christians, I am a villain!" But that is not the case here at all. "L'ame slave" and the psy- chology of Dostoyevsky characters are a thing of the remote past in our country, the pluperfect tense. Such types do not exist in our country, or exist perhaps only on the outskirts of small provincial towns, if they do even there. On the contrary, such a psychology is to be found in Western Europe. JULU: Excellent. And this is what I want you to do, Alan, and this is what I want you to say. You will learn from a very good way to learn: VYSHINSKY: Tell us the nature of your wrecking activities. ZUBAREV: When I was working in the seed cultivation department of the Peo- ple's Commissariat of Agriculture of the U.S.S.R., they were of the nature that the accused Chernov spoke about yesterday: causing confusion in seed cultivation, lowering the quality of the seeds, employing bad quality mat- erials, bad sifting, careless storing, and the result of all this was not only a reduction of yield, but also a hostile mood of the peasantry, dis- satisfaction with these so-called selected seeds. Alan: This is excellent, and I will do my very best. VYSHINSKY: What was the nature of your criminal activities in the People's Commissariat of Agriculture of the R.S.F.S.R.? ZUBAREV: Here my criminal activities consisted first of all in wrongly planning the sowing of vegetables; in particular, little attention was paid to the development of vegetable growing in our eastern districts, where the developing of vegetable growing was of enormous importance... Jennifer: I am learning so very hard here. PEOPLE'S COMMISSARIAT OF JUSTICE OF THE U.S.S.R. REPORT OF COURT PROCEED- INGS IN THE CASE OF THE ANTI-SOVIET "BLOC OF RIGHTS AND TROTSKYITES" Heard Before the MILITARY COLLEGIUM OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE U.S.S.R. Moscow, March 2-13, VERBATIM REPORT, Published by the PEOPLE'S COMMISSARIAT OF JUSTICE OF THE U.S.S.R. MOSCOW 1938. Jennifer, Julu, and Nikuko applaud. All three together: This is wonderful! VYSHINSKY: How matters stood with butter, this is of interest to me at this stage of the investigation. You have spoken of salt, of sugar, how you held back these commodities from sale to the population by sabotage, etc. But how did matters stand with butter? ZELENSKY: We don't sell butter in the rural districts. VYSHINSKY: I am not asking you what you sell. You were above all selling the main thing - your country... Alan: I see how this goes. This is amazing. They have been found out, and it is clear at the very end that the wreckers are executed. Nothing could be clearer. One must be at the service of one's country. LEVIN: ...Gorky loved fire, flames, and we made use of this. A bonfire would be lit up for him. Just when Gorky would feel the fatigue after his work, all the chopped branches were gathered together, and a flame kind- led. Gorky would stand near this bonfire, it was hot there, and all this had a harmful effect on his health... ...And in fact, on the second or third day after his arrival in this grippe-infected house, Gorky fell sick with the grippe. This was soon complicated by croupous pneumonia and imme- diately took a serious turn. Nonetheless, Professor Pletnev and I consid- ered that the plan we had drawn up must be carried through, and that for this purpose use must be made of medicines which would be harmful to him. Julu: Oh oh, that is so awful! This is such an awful thing! I cannot be- lieve how awful this is! THE PRESIDENT: As regards wrecking work, that it was necessary to bring about a decrease in the number of livestock. RYKOV: Even more than that. These instructions, as Goloded said, were duly received from the poles... Jennifer: Oh! Oh! Oh! Attacks from every side! Nikuko: Oh! Woe! Attacks from within and without! KRESTINSKY: ...Further Trotsky developed the idea of the necessity of ter- rorism, wrecking activities and diversions. In speaking of them, Trotsky considered diversionist acts and acts of terrorism from the point of view both of applying them in time of war for the purpose of disorganizing the defensive capacity of the Red Army, for disorganizing the government by the moment of the coup d'etat, and at the same time, these diversionist and terrorist acts would make his, Trotsky's, position stronger and would give him more confidence in his negotiations with foreign governments, be- cause he would be able to refer to the fact that his followers in the Sov- iet Union were both sufficiently strong and sufficiently active... Julu: Oh dearest us! How awful is Trotsky! Something must be done and now! There are foes on every side! There are foes inside and out! KAKAZOV: ...Now when I stand before you, Citizens Judges, as the murderer of Menzhinsky, I cannot help shuddering and being overcome with horror when I think of the despicable crime into which I was dragged. Not for a minute do I want to disclaim the blame for this crime. On the contrary I want to repent of this crime to the end and rid myself of this nightmare. Alan: Oh curses on Kakazov for his perfidious crime! To death with perfid- ious Kakazov! On the basis of the aforesaid, and guided by Articles 319 and 320 of the Code of Criminal Procedure of the R.S.F.S.R., The Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the U.S.S.R. Sentences...[list of 18 men]...to the supreme penalty - to be shot, with the confiscation of all their personal property. All: Oh we are saved from the wrecking and saboteurs of our country! Death to the traitors! Death to the BLOC OF RIGHTS AND TROTSKYITES! Death to the Jews! Nikuko: This is a wonderful play, Ladies and Gentlemen, and we hope you have enjoyed it. We have given you much to think on, because the truth, which is always difficult, is the best play in the world! Please take care on your way out! Thank you! KIM IL SUNG: Hello, I am a member of the audience and I am very happy to see this play. If more countries, even though small, pool their strength and fight resolutely against imperialism, the peoples can knock down U.S. imperialism with decisively overwhelming power on each and every front. The people of every country making revolution should tear limbs off the U.S. beast all over the world and behead it. The U.S. imperialists appear to be strong, but when the peoples of many countries attack them from all sides and join in mutilating them in that way, they will become impotent and bite the dust in the end. Jennifer: But oh Great Leader, what is to be done? KIM IL SUNG: Hello, Our Party will fight against Right and 'Left' oppor- tunism, while upholding the banner of unity. Julu: Oh that is so good, we will drag down the renegades of the revolu- tion! PRESIDENT AND KIM IL SUNG: Yes, ABSOLUTEly! All Laugh! Exeunt Omnes. ___________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:32:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: Tandy Sturgeon Comments: cc: "hatlen@maine.maine.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi, Can anyone tell me how to contact Tandy Sturgeon? Thanks, Burt Kimmelman kimmelman@njit.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:18:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Hotel Imperium: book announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Now available: H O T E L I M P E R I U M Poems by Rachel Loden Winner of the Contemporary Poetry Series competition University of Georgia Press, 1999 ISBN: 0820321699 ___________________________________________________________ "Fierce humor has HOTEL IMPERIUM, as well as a heady run in which Nixon and brassieres stud the trail; the whole century bends its tragedy beneath Rachel Loden’s clear intelligence. These are brilliant, moving poems--poems to read for pure joy and chills over and over from here on out." --Susan Wheeler "Rachel Loden is not merely fashionable or current. She’s a late-century muse of everything valuable in poetry--voice, shape, and gesture. Add to that a wicked sense of humor and a disarmingly fresh and penetrating eye for social and political concerns. But her poems are not political in the simple sense of the word. Loden’s poetry guarantees complexity as it charts new territory with assurance. Rarely does a writer emerge with such authority. HOTEL IMPERIUM is the debut of a startlingly original writer." --Maxine Chernoff "Ablaze with moral passion, hushed in fairy-tale bliss, or chuckling up to terror, Rachel Loden's tight poems of intricate subversion are gloriously musical, alive to each scintilla of sound and measure." --Stephanie Strickland "Steadily, with imaginative insight, humor, sarcasm, irony, Rachel Loden looks at history, the great continuous and absolutely unstoppable weave of memories that is, like it or not, the medium of human existence. Definitely ‘residential’, her HOTEL IMPERIUM is “a murderous dream, confetti falling / helplessly into the fissured past” (“Premillennial Tristesse”). In its corridors and rooms, Loden makes us confront many of the century’s still active ghosts, in manifestations both familiar and wittily defamiliarized: “The old man’s overcoat stirs / in the dark, as though / about to cup a hand once more / to an unhearing ear ...” (“Reagan Ascending into Hollywood”). Political in the best and rarest sense of the word, Loden’s poems show us how to reimagine our (and others’) lives, with a vividness reminiscent of both the COMMEDIA and SPRING & ALL. In sum: great, terrifying, insidiously beautiful work!" --Anselm Hollo "If you are looking for a book of poems ruthless and luxuriant enough to see you into the third millennium, take along Rachel Loden’s HOTEL IMPERIUM, winner of the 1999 University of Georgia Press Contemporary Poets Prize. These startling and vibrant poems capture the tristesse of the post-apocalyptic era, the whimpering end of the Cold War, and the "irrational exuberance" that comes "after the end." Loden’s poems are especially necessary and important now, because they will temper the noisy hype of millennial newness and its promise of release from history. "You will enter history," announces the book’s first section, which mourns the last fifty years of a brutal century, while refusing to be consoled by apocalyptic fantasies of rebirth or regeneration. . . . "In the extraterritorial Hotel-world of global capital, we are all on the move, whether as tourists, refugees, or vagabonds. Loden’s "Hotel Imperium" is peopled with strange and ghostly lodgers, most notably the former leaders of the Western world and the Soviet Bloc. Represented by Loden in their mental and physical decline, these "cold warriors, like dying jellyfish," are beginning to "grow dim." Richard Nixon slips "in and out of consciousness," while his dog Checkers, about to be exhumed, speaks reassuring words from beyond the grave. Ronald Reagan’s overcoat, enlivened after museum enshrinement proceedings, gives a last, and amiable, salute. We contemplate "Lenin’s body [on display in a Red Square mausoleum], chilly like a mammoth / in an ice floe." Loden is at her best when she combines her grimly acute historical observations with the "errant / sweetness" and breadth of learning characteristic of her book’s guiding presence, Robert Duncan. Then we re-experience, with a shock, our century’s unholy mixture of paradise and wasteland. "The human body--erotic, ecstatic, torn, and tortured--is a constant presence in HOTEL IMPERIUM. The book’s presiding spirit is the violated figure of "revenge," who "lies sweetly in the fields / with her legs open, / her Bo Peep / petticoats in ribbons." To this bloody figure and its promise of future violence, Loden proposes a counter-figure, "love." If love cannot offer us redemption ("saving nothing standing in its wake"), it can offer us new histories out of which new futures may be possible. We are lucky to have in Rachel Loden a troubadour unafraid to sing of terror, and a brilliant balladeer of our history’s shabbiest episodes. As we move into a new millennium, we should listen carefully to this self-professed "rhapsodist of cunning" and "songbird of iniquity" as she sings sweetly of "love, revenge, remaindering." --Kathleen Crown, in AMERICAN LETTERS & COMMENTARY ___________________________________________________________ Cover: Tricky Dick a la Lichtenstein. View here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0820321699/qid%3D937098693/002-8369867-7542621 Special to POETICS subscribers: $12.77 (20% off) postpaid. Please backchannel (rloden@concentric.net) or send check to: Rachel Loden E-Traffic Inc. 1101 San Antonio Road, Suite 404 Mountain View, CA 94043 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:47:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: BOO? who? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit getting ready to have seminar class on Muse & Drudge. Does anyone know whether the interview w Harryette in BOO 7 is available electronically? I have a copy, but it's heavily marked up, and I'd like to make a clean copy available to the seminar. also: leads on other good stuff ON the book? thanks in advance Tenney mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:55:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Writing-space at trAce - (fwd, apologies for cross-post) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi - The Love and War project at the trAce online writing community has been placed in 'museum' status - There are four new pages to contribute to. You can write within them, add hypertext or hypertext links, etc. - We're interested in all forms of writing/intractivity (whatever the format will support) - seeing what will emerge. Go to http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm Thanks - Alan - (also see http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/ ) Internet Text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:39:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: noteworthy event for noteworthy book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *Book Party to Celebrate the Release of* HOW MANY MORE OF THEM ARE YOU? by Lisa Lubasch Avec Books, 1999 FRIDAY OCTOBER 22 6 - 9 pm 6 pm. Reception 7 pm. Reading & Musical Response featuring New music by composer John Kramer, Performed by Ken Long, clarinettist Louise Dubin, cellist Monica Bauchwitz, violinist Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West, 7th floor tel. 212-691-6590 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:27:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: COMBO website In-Reply-To: <45532.3147410869@poetrygrad2.lib.buffalo.edu> from "Poetics List" at Sep 27, 1999 08:47:49 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just letting folks know that a photo of the cover (significantly more yellow than in person where it's a gleaming gold) as well as a few sample poems from COMBO 4 are now available at our website. So, go, be enticed and order a subscription! http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~wh/combo -Mike. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:18:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: demographic query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain at times i've been interested to see the country by country numerical listing of poetix listees but i wonder if it might be possible to zero in on states or regions and plot the distribution along those lines more for curiousity than any other reason but i'd love to know how many listees there are in florida geogia south carolina north carolina virgina alabama louisianna tennesee mississippi that is, the south (did i forget any states ?) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:27:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: HIGHWIRE READING Comments: To: abdalhayy@aol.com, aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, ayperry@aol.com, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, icepalace3@aol.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@NETAXS.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, richardfrey@DCA.Net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@MAIL.TJU.EDU, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a g a i n * w e * m e e t __HIGHWIRE__READINGS__ >>thiS timE IT'S J E N A O S M A N ....... +++ ..... A L A N G I L B E R T Come to 139 N. 2nd St., Highwire Gallery, THIS Saturday, Oct. 16, at the same ol' 8PM bring a refreshment if ya like, take a seat, it's the verbal herbal, and directly following there will be revelry at our favorite local pub, the estimable Anthony's--try the fried oyster special *********************************************************************** POETS: JENA OSMAN is the newest faculty member of the Temple University Graduate English/Creative Writing program. She co-edits Chain with Juliana Spahr. In her work, including a CD-ROM poem, she explores a procedural poetics. ALAN GILBERT recently gave a controversial talk about Hank Williams and the Harry Smith Anthology at the Boston Poetry Conference. He also wrote a scathing and intelligent response to Jeffery Sachs' article in The Economist about the economic troubles in Russia. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:34:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Giles Scott Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII As far as i know Mary Ann Caws up at CUNY has written some essays on Phillips, though i'm not sure where they are located. It's a starting point thought. David Giles Scott On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Molly Schwartzburg wrote: > I've found almost nothing at all on Phillips on the literature end of > things, though on the art end there are reviews and catalogs of > individual shows. > > There is a selected bibliography in the catalog for an exhibition at North > Carolina Museum of Art: > > Huston Paschal, _Tom Phillips: Selections from the Ruth and Marvin Sackner > Archive of Concrete and Visual Poetry_. Raleigh: North Carolina Museum of > Art, 1990. > > I am currently working on Phillips and would also appreciate any > suggestions. > --Molly Schwartzburg > > On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > I'd much appreciate your posting whatever you find out about critical > > reaction to the work of Tom Phillips. I doubt that there's much, for > > the same reason there's almost nothing out there about ANY genuine > > visual poets. > > > > --Bob G. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:38:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: Re: HIGHWIRE READING In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Just a request -- could people please try to remember to list the city when they're listing readings? Sometimes they forget and they just say "2nd Street" and it all seems a little vague...second street anywhere in the world? Thanks, Arielle (who lives on Delhi Street, but here -- in Syracuse -- it's pronounced "Dell-high") **************************************************************************** "I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I describe." -- Ray Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:59:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think Fanny would be a little surprised to find herself in that group. At 08:57 PM 10/12/99 -0700, you wrote: >in reference to dobyns mark, > > we're all marked on a curve and dobyns may be one of them but he's one of >the best of them, the other children of mallarme, the franco-americans. >levine, kinnel,piercy, willard, merwin, bidart, oliver, bly, hannigan, >where's paul hannigan? fanny howe , ray carver,wendell berry, richard >hugo, c.d.wright, ammons, haines, stern. brock-broido gilbert, , gluck, >charles wright, jorie grahame, sextonists, loganistas, roethkeites, >they're transcendentalists, emerzen and aughthorn their diogenes, bad as >they may be, they are graaaaaaaate poets compared to 98% of the Web De Sol >say or the chicago review. >we're not sharpening any machetes are we mark? >the audience is vast >we couldn't satisfy the demand >if they ceased to produce >those them >nobody rereads charles bernstein >at the race track > >billy meowsie tongue little > > >forbidden plateau fallen body dojo >4 song st. >nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 >canadaddy >zonko@mindless.com >zonko > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:30:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Do you trade? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Michael-Grabbed a combo at Granary books moving sale, nice stuff. Do you trade? as ever, David Kirschenbaum, editor Boog Literature (formalities upon introduction only) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:08:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There are some wonderful essays on a web site devoted to his work. In particular, I'm thinking of an essay by William Gass. ak >I've found almost nothing at all on Phillips on the literature end of >things, though on the art end there are reviews and catalogs of >individual shows. > >There is a selected bibliography in the catalog for an exhibition at North >Carolina Museum of Art: > >Huston Paschal, _Tom Phillips: Selections from the Ruth and Marvin Sackner >Archive of Concrete and Visual Poetry_. Raleigh: North Carolina Museum of >Art, 1990. > >I am currently working on Phillips and would also appreciate any >suggestions. >--Molly Schwartzburg > >On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I'd much appreciate your posting whatever you find out about critical >> reaction to the work of Tom Phillips. I doubt that there's much, for >> the same reason there's almost nothing out there about ANY genuine >> visual poets. >> >> --Bob G. >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:33:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: singing the holes in history MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A few weeks ago Hank Lazer mentioned Paul Naylor's book _Singing the Holes in History_(Northwestern University Press). I want to recommend it also. The author, Paul Naylor, gives interesting readings of Susan Howe, Nathaniel Mackey, Lyn Hejinian, Kamau Brathwaite and M. Nourbese Phillip ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:38:28 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: demographic query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >at times i've been interested to see the country by country numerical >listing of poetix listees > >but i wonder if it might be possible to zero in on states or regions and >plot the distribution along those lines > >more for curiousity than any other reason > >but i'd love to know how many listees there are in > >florida >geogia >south carolina >north carolina >virgina >alabama >louisianna >tennesee >mississippi > >that is, the south (did i forget any states ?) > what about the SOUTH ZAUMIST PROTECTORITE whyche i'm LIT Minister of!! pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:27:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Andrei Codrescu in NYC, Wed. October 20, 8pm, at Makor 35 W.67th St. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Fellow listees, A friend of mine is organizing this event and I thought it might be of interest. as ever, David Kirschenbaum _____________________________________________________________________ Andrei Codrescu's Radio Messiah Wednesday, October 20, 8pm Makor 35 West 67 Street (Bet. Columbus and Central Park West) New York City $12; call 212.601.1000 for reservations Radio Messiah is a one-man show by Andrei Codrescu with radio voices from preachers, gurus, and conspiracy theorists. This piece is about fathers, earthly and heavenly. Originally commissioned by Lincoln Center for their Directors' Workshop, Radio Messiah was performed twice, once at Lincoln Center and shortly after at Central Park's SummerStage in the Fall of 1998. The play is indirectly connected with Andrei Codrescu's novel, Messiah (Simon & Schuster, 1999). Andrei will be signing Messiah, Ay,Cuba and an anthology from the anti-literary literary journal he edits, Thus Spake the Corpse: An Exquisite Corpse Reader 1988-1998, Poetry and Essays. Andrei Codrescu may be most popularly known for his sardonic, humor-laced radio essays, heard since 1983 on National Public Radio's All Things Considered. In these essays Codrescu has ranged from describing his encounters with a young hustler and an un-official Catholic saint in Cuba, to musing on American pop culture and reporting on his return to his native Romania after the fall of the Iron Curtain. _____________________________________________________________________ David A. Kirschenbaum editor and publisher Boog Literature 351 W.24th St. Suite 19E New York, NY 10011-1510 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:47:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Beach's Poetic Culture (guerilla poetix) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII David Zauhar asks where Beach says he is without prejudice; well, i think what i said, or anyway what i *meant*, tho maybe i expressed it badly, is precisely conveyed by a passage DZ proceeds to quote: "While my intent has been to write a book that is synthetic and open-minded rather than narrowly partisan, I do believ that certain sectors of American poetic culture have been more successful than others in articulaint new perspectives and in generating innovative formal and cognitive structures..."(17-8) --i meant no more than what Beach means here: that he is trying to be "open-minded rather than narrowly partisan." I think the general approach by the way is interesting and probably a useful move, in the overall context of the ongoing poetry wars... (..in those wars i am usually pretty much a narrow partisan myself, lurking in the mountains, making hit-and-run attacks on the better-eqipped and well-funded occupying forces...*But* i dream of a just negotiated peace....) Obviously, many will claim Beach hasn't succeeded in his "open-minded rather than narrow" goal.... I myself have mixed feelings... But the idea and the attempt are praiseworthy. in the maquis, mark prejsnar ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:09:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katie Degentesh Subject: TONIGHT AT ADOBE BOOKS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" OCTOBER 14, 1999, 7:30 PM at the ADOBE BOOKSHOP 9x9 INDUSTRIES returns to PRESENT AN EVENING OF BLANKETY BLANKETY BLANK WITH THE SOMETHING SOMETHINGS The hyperbolic adjective trio, Todd Barker, Paul Spencer, and Felix Macnee, will perform the above-titled work. Bring your fever-pitch unction and dangling participles. There will be a certain amount of danger. Todd Barker holds a Masters of Fine Arts degree from the California College of Arts and Crafts, generally in his left hand. He has performed and exhibited widely, in venues such as The Lab and the Gorgonzola Peach Blintz. Paul Spencer, currently completing a degree in painting at the San Francisco Art Institute, chips his canvas with a whimsical mannerist futon and piles his words on with advanced cat pressure. Felix Macnee has snaggled teeth, a pork pie hat, and deals the cards with two broken hands. He has written a play starring green beans. --please note that Michael Disend, hypnotist and screen writer extraordinaire, has unfortunately had to cancel his opening performance-- 9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9 1999 (NINETEEN NINETY (NINE BY NINE) INDUSTRIES) 199X9 9X9 INDUSTRIES http://www.paraffin.org/nine/ nine@paraffin.org GIVE US YOUR TIRED, YOUR POOR, YOUR THURSDAY ASSES YEARNING TO SEE PERFORMANCES FOR FREE 9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:25:24 -0700 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Cauldron & Net launches, vol of Web art & writings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CAULDRON & NET LAUNCHES http://www.StudioCleo.com/cauldron/ Claire Dinsmore has just launched the first volume of Cauldron & Net on Web art and writing. The first issue features Jennifer Ley, Thomas Bell, Talan Memmott, David Knoebel, Todd Sanders, George Quasha, Peter Ganick, David Knoebel, Lars Wickstrom, Reiner Strasser, Kohei Shimizu, Nathaniel Bobbitt, State Sanctioned Sedation, Cecil Touchon, Shawn Phillips, Ted Warnell, and Jim Andrews. DEFIB http://webartery.com/defib Claire and some of the contributors to this first Cauldron & Net will be participating in Defib (IRC, Web-based chat) on Sunday Nov 7, noon PST (7:00 GMT). All you need to participate in Defib is a java enabled browser. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:14:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Franco Subject: OXFORD ST READS OCTOBER 24th 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WORD OF MOUTH oxford street READS SUNDAY OCTOBER 24TH, 1999 3 PM FROM SAN FRANCISCO: susan thackrey & FROM GLOUCESTER monica peck $3.00 donation 90-92 oxford st. somerville ma. first floor EXTENDING NOW THE TALK SERIES INITIATED WITH GERRIT LANSING AND DIANE DI PRIMA LAST SPRING, THESE READINGS, AT ONCE FORMAL AND YET -HOPEFULLY- INTIMATE; CHAMBER EVENTS WHERE POETRY IS NOT REMOVED FROM THE IMMEDIACY OF THE CONTEMPORARY BY THE APPARATUS OF STAGE OR PODIUM; COLLAGE, BOOKSTORE OR VENUE AUTHORIZATION: BUT RESTS SOLELY UPON OUR NEED OF IT... IN OUR LIVING ROOM... THESE READINGS THEN TO COMPLETE THE CIRCLE OF ACTIVITY & BRING IT ALL HOME. all best Michael Franco ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:51:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain i gotta second that one "merwin.. bly.. fanny howe..." why am i choking ??? > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Weiss [SMTP:junction@EARTHLINK.NET] > > I think Fanny would be a little surprised to find herself in that group. > > At 08:57 PM 10/12/99 -0700, you wrote: > >in reference to dobyns mark, > > > > we're all marked on a curve and dobyns may be one of them but he's one > of > >the best of them, the other children of mallarme, the franco-americans. > >levine, kinnel,piercy, willard, merwin, bidart, oliver, bly, hannigan, > >where's paul hannigan? fanny howe... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:39:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Zauhar wrote: > On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, David Kellogg wrote: > > > Mark, I haven't read Beach's new book but I was disappointed in -- even > > pissed off by -- the chapter on Hejinian and Dobyns when it came out in > > Contemporary Literature. If I recall, it made a few perfunctory gestures > > in the direction of sociology (e.g., Bourdieu) and then went off into a > > wholly predictable close reading of the two poets in which Hejinian > > clearly comes off the "winner." For all the sociological posturing, this > > struck me a pointless exercise and an insult to the sociology of poetry. > > Maybe the rest of the book is better, I'll have to see. > > > Bourdieu makes a few cameos, mostly in footnotes. Insightful and concise > every time, but some development would be helpful. Personally, I came to > the book with the same predispositions concerning Dobyns and Hejinian as > Beach displays. So did I. > When Mark Presjner writes of this section of Beach's > book that... > ---------------------------------------------------- > MP: > in another chapter he examines the career and work of workshop maven > Stephen Dobyns in comparison to the career and work of Lyn Hejinian... (he > comes to the conclusion that, without prior prejudice about which type of > poetry is "good" and which "bad," Dobyns is a fairly weak poet and > Hejinian a pretty good one....Which makes sense to me; ...Most people wd. > suspect his claim to be so "without prejudice" about overall styles to > start with... But i think he would argue that he is reaching conclusions > about the relative strength of different contemporary camps..not starting > out with them. And this claim to some extent is backed-up by his > treatment of slam work, which he like a whole lot more than workshop, and > treats with considerable respect.) > ------------------------------------------------------ > ... I generally agree: he lets slammers get away with things that Dobyns > pays for rather dearly. But I can't find where Beach says that he's > approaching Dobyns and Hejinian without prejudice. In the intro, Beach > writes "I have at times stated my own aesthetic criteria and preferences > quite strongly, as in teh comparison of the `mainstream' academic poet > Stephen Dobyns and the experimentalist Lyn Hejinian {hmmmm, why no scare > quotes around the equally dubious term "experimentalist"?}, and in my > critiques of poetry anthologies and academic creative writing programs. > While my intent has been to write a book that is synthetic and open-minded > rather than narrowly partisan, I do believ that certain sectors of > American poetic culture have been more successful than others in > articulaint new perspectives and in generating innovative formal and > cognitive structures..."(17-8) The difficulty here is that it sets up the game in favor of the experimentalist. I doubt Dobyns would view his own poetry's importance in the way it articulates new perspectives or generates innovative formal and cognitive structures -- there might be other terms he would use -- so the fact that his work _doesn't_ do that is of no consequence. None. Nor do these criteria make any headway into understanding what readers actually _do_ with Dobyns, which as far as I could tell Beach couldn't care less about. Certainly the article in Contemporary Literature, on which I assume this chapter is based, provided no such analysis. Perhaps the values of Dobyns's audience are not Beach's -- given that possibility, it is at least worth asking what people who _do_ get something out of it get. I'm no fan of Stephen Dobyns. But Beach's article is not cultural criticism or literary sociology. > Which is why the point that David Kennedy Kellogg, but OK. > > raises is interestingis it possible to have (and express) one's own aesthetic > preferences > without insulting the sociology of poetry? And if so, who are some of the > critics who pull it off? I think Maria Damon pulls it off pretty well. Charles Bernstein does it OK too, although his calls for diversity are rarely, in my experience, made in the direction of mainstream poetry. (Much as Adrienne Rich quotes Bernstein in the intro to her Best of . . . selection but then prints nothing of his compatriots'). Cary Nelson does it well in Repression and Recovery. > Asking out of curiousity, not hostility, petulance, etc. Well said, especially given that my own earlier post was nothing if not hostile. Cheers, David David Kellogg kellogg@duke.edu Duke University, University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:03:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Golding Subject: Tom Phillips refs. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of short ones: Steve McCaffery has a very brief discussion of Phillips in his essay "The Scandal of Sincerity: Towards a Levinasian Poetics," *Pretexts: Studies in Writing and Culture* 6.2 (1997): 167-190. In a note he cites a web site that apparently has Phillips material so maybe that'll be helpful: www.wolfenet.com/duchamp/ And Johanna Drucker has a couple of pages on *A Humument* in *The Century of Artists' Books* (NY: Granary, 1995). Alan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:50:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got the Beach book from the library this a.m., read it quickly, and will respond to the whole, rather than to my memory of a part, shortly. My initial reaction, having read it _very quickly_, is somewhat more positive than my reaction to the Hejinian/Dobyns chapter in _Contemporary Literature_. As one committed to my own Bourdieuvian (?) analysis of contemporary poetry, I can't help thinking that in trying to provide a "defense" of poetry against "the impoverished cultural spirit of American life" in the _midst_ of a sociology is a betrayal of Bourdieu's best bits, as in the following: "There is a specific economy of the literary and artistic field, based on a particular form of belief. And the major difficulty lies in the need to make a radical break with this belief and with the deceptive certainties of the language of celebration, without thereby forgetting that they are part of the very reality we are seeking to understand, and that, as such, they must have a place in the model intended to explain it. . . . The work of art is an object which exists as such only by virtue of the (collective) belief which knows and acknowledges it as a work of art. Consequently, in order to escape from the usual choice between celebratory effusions and the reductive analysis which, failing to take account of the fact of belief in the work of art and of the social conditions which produce that belief, destroys the work of art as such, a rigorous science of art must, pace both the unbelievers and iconoclasts and also the believers, assert the possibility and necessity of understanding the work in its reality as a fetish; it has to take into account everything which helps to constitute the work of art as such, not least the discourses of direct and disguised celebration which are among the social conditions of production of the work of art qua object of belief." (Bourdieu, The Field of Cultural Production, 1993, p. 35) More to follow. David Kellogg kellogg@duke.edu Duke University, University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:05:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: new URL for semetrix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit S E M E T R I X by mIEKAL aND & Maria Damon :9 x 9 x 6 hypertextual -eme grid :component speech :broken language :boustrophedonic dyslexia http://net22.com/qazingulaza/hypoeme/semetrix/openframe.html [not recommended for frames challenged browsers] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:01:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips In-Reply-To: <069D03801EEA708A*/c=US/admd=TeleMail/prmd=Deloitte/o=ccMailGW/s=Lustig/g= Dana/i=L/@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Most all of our books are still in boxes, so I can't be any more specific, but I know there was a special issue of the Canadian magazine Open Letter sometime in the, probably, late 1980s, that focused on Tom Phillips, Ian Hamilton Finlay, & someone else I can't remember. Bests, Herb Herb Levy NEW MAILING ADDRESS: P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 NEW PHONE: 817 377-2983 same old e-mail: herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:12:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Re: demographic query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not to mention the virtually adjacent Autonomous Freestate of Zaumnaya, 42 degrees Lat N. Rasputin Zukofsky projectivist heretic Zaum in the Age of Electronic Huts http://net22.com/qazingulaza/zaum.html pete spence wrote: > >that is, the south (did i forget any states ?) > > > what about the SOUTH ZAUMIST PROTECTORITE whyche i'm LIT Minister of!! pete > spence > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:06:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: HIGHWIRE READING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit highwire's in philadelphia h ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:11:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: reading announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephanie Strickland will be reading from my books HOTEL IMPERIUM and THE LAST CAMPAIGN at the Hudson Valley Writers' Center this Sunday, October 17, at 4:30 p.m. I've read the poems to her and she's read them back to me so I know she reads them brilliantly. The other readers are Andrea Louie and Sharon Mesmer. Louie is author of a novel, MOON CAKES. She's publications director at the Asian American Writers' Workshop, has had residencies at the Macdowell Colony and Yaddo, and is a freelance writer and editor. Mesmer has a poetry collection, HALF ANGEL, HALF LUNCH, and a story collection, THE EMPTY QUARTER. She teaches fiction writing and literature at the New School. There's a train out of Grand Central on Metro-North's Hudson line that leaves at 3:20 and brings you literally to the site of the reading (the center's digs at Philipse Manor) a little after 4 p.m. Info kiosk folk at Grand Central can easily tell you the track number for the 3:20 to Philipse Manor. Center email: info@writerscenter.org. Please come! Rachel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:25:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Re: Left Hand Reading Series, 10/21/99 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > LEFT HAND READING SERIES PRESENTS: > > RIKKI DUCORNET - novelist > & > JOSEPH LEASE - poet > > Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 8:30pm > Left Hand Books > 1825 Pearl Street, above the Crystal Market > Boulder, CO > > Rikki Ducornet's latest novel is "The Fan Maker's Inquistion." Her books > include, "The Jade Cabinet,: "The Fountains of Neptune," The Word Desire," > and "Phosphor in Dreamland." > > Joseph Lease is the author of "Human Rights" and "The Room." His poems > have appeared in Grand Street, Talisman, Colorado Review, Agni, and Paris > Review. He is Assistant Professor of Creative Writing at Central Michigan > University and poetry editor of the Boston Book Review. > > An open reading will precede the featured readers. > > This event is free and open to the public. Donations are requested. > > For more information, please call Mark DuCharme 303-938-9346 or Patrick > Pritchett 303-444-5963. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:32:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seeing Fanny in that group certainly surprised and confused me! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:33:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture Comments: To: david kellogg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain david kellogg wrote "The difficulty here is that it sets up the game in favor of the experimentalist. I doubt Dobyns would view his own poetry's importance in the way it articulates new perspectives or generates innovative formal and cognitive structures -- there might be other terms he would use -- so the fact that his work _doesn't_ do that is of no consequence. None. Nor do these criteria make any headway into understanding what readers actually _do_ with Dobyns, which as far as I could tell Beach couldn't care less about. Certainly the article in Contemporary Literature, on which I assume this chapter is based, provided no such analysis. Perhaps the values of Dobyns's audience are not Beach's -- given that possibility, it is at least worth asking what people who _do_ get something out of it get. I'm no fan of Stephen Dobyns. But Beach's article is not cultural criticism or literary sociology." i'm toeing into unknown waters here as i have not, as yet read the book but to the above i wd like to ask one question david, are you actually "behind" the notion that it is only sympathetic readers of dobyns that only their *use* of said poet is worthwhile is "of consequence" ? now, i grant, immediately, that in a sociology of anything one wd want to have this "inside" view of the dobyns' lovin poetry public (i'm somewhat curious as to why they do like him myself) but, do we believe that bourdieu (or anyone) can in fact, step outside of their slurs, preconceptions etc sufficiently to provide the analysis that you seem to be calling beach to task for ? again, forgive if my comments arent to the point as i have not read this book, i simply wonder at the implications in some of this for instance, if bourdieu only makes an appearance in footnotes perhaps holding beach to the yardstick of him isnt' quite appropriate ? perhaps that is "of no consequence" as it doesnt address itself to what the book _does_ for those who've found it interesting and an OK introduction to slices of the poetic pie that they might not otherwise come upon (as it seem to have for mark p in relation to the slam stuff) ?? thoughts )L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:44:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture Comments: To: david kellogg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain a few more thoughts about all of this david, you quoted a passage from bourdieu from which i wd like to examine briefly; > "There is a specific economy of the literary and artistic field, based on > a particular form of belief. And the major difficulty lies in the need to > make a radical break with this belief and with the deceptive certainties > of the language of celebration, without thereby forgetting that they are > part of the very reality we are seeking to understand, and that, as such, > they must have a place in the model intended to explain it. . . . The work > of art is an object which exists as such only by virtue of the > (collective) belief which knows and acknowledges it as a work of art. > Consequently, in order to escape from the usual choice between celebratory > effusions and the reductive analysis which, failing to take account of the > fact of belief in the work of art and of the social conditions which > produce that belief, destroys the work of art as such, a rigorous science > of art must, pace both the unbelievers and iconoclasts and also the > believers, assert the possibility and necessity of understanding the work > in its reality as a fetish; it has to take into account everything which > helps to constitute the work of art as such, not least the discourses of > direct and disguised celebration which are among the social conditions of > production of the work of art qua object of belief." > well, i already questioned whether this seeming objectivity cd be attained, but just now i'm wondering about why exactly the attempt to "understand the work of art in it's reality as a fetish" isnt swallowed by the proposed economy of the literary and artistic field --- and thus this understanding of the work of art in it's "reality as fetish" yet another things which would need "find it's place in the model" arent works of art often fetishized by those who also have beliefs of varying sorts about art ---- consider gallery owners who in some instances cd care less about the work but wish to surround it with the aura to fetishize it, such that it will sell --- this is different certainly, but how different ? perhaps i am not clear on bourdieu's use of the word "fetish" ? anyway david or anyone familiar with bourdieu, my apologies if i'm asking boneheaded questions that were i familiar with his work i wdnt waste my time on --- but, i've seen some uses made of his name in places where the conclusions drawn made me less than confident about bourdieu's thought )L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:46:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: Bourdieu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've been following the discussion of Beach's book with great interest. I've also been reading Bourdieu while doing an analysis of the poetry reading public in contemporary Spain. While reading _Distinctions_ it strikes me that Bourdieu vacates aesthetic pleasure on several levels: High-brow and avant-garde models of aesthetics reinforce social privilege and negate actual pleasure. Bourdieu scorns middle-brow culture in a scathing chapter entitled "Cultural Good Will." At least that's how I read him. It is the petit-bourgeois's earnest attempt to attain cultural capital, but will always be judged infeior in relation to the high brow elite. The culture of the popular classes has virtually no value for Bourdieu either. It simply reflects a deep cultural deprivation. It is a taste based on preferring what is after all only a fulfillment of basic necessities. Bourdieu is no relativist: he doesn't think that popular or mass culture is as good or as valuable as "high culture." But the latter is tainted by its social role as marker of cultural prestige and its denial of pleasure. Bourdieu analyzes all this quite brilliantly, but I find little comfort in him... Please correct me if I'm wrong, those who have studied this in more depth than I have... Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:07:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture In-Reply-To: <3805EB34.38C2BD2F@duke.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "I doubt Dobyns would view his own poetry's importance in the way it articulates new perspectives or generates innovative formal and cognitive structures -- there might be other terms he would use -- so the fact that his work _doesn't_ do that is of no consequence. None." ************* Wrong. Dead wrong. As a reader of poetry (and therefore as a critic as well), it's my right AND (to wax civic here a bit) my duty, to decide what is important in poetry. S. Dobyns and all others, have in turn the right to dismiss the criteria i believe in..... But, no, i don't believe that a critic like Beach should ask "does Dobyns accomplish what he sets out to do" ? (or rather, he shouldn't make that his main concern, as implied in the quote above..It will usually be one factor that needs discussing) Part of what Beach *should* be doing is: articulating a set of framing arguments regarding what he thinks poetry ought to be doing.........And judging Dobyns accordingly. The critic's task is to think, not just render passive evaluation on execution, defering to rules laid down by the poet... mark prejsnar @lanta ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:03:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: October 16: MATT ROHRER and EDMUND BERRIGAN NYC In-Reply-To: <38062602.86AB9ADA@duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Segue @ Double Happiness: October 16: MATT ROHRER and EDMUND BERRIGAN MATT ROHRER grew up on Oklahoma. He is the author of A Hummock in the Malookas (W.W. Norton) and is one of the poetry editors for Fence. EDDIE BERRIGAN is the author of Disarming Matter (Owl Press, 1999). He edits LOG Magazine (with Noel Black), and is currently at work putting together a volume of the late Steve Carey's poetry. This Saturday from 4:00 to 6:00 pm. (Double Happiness is located at 173 Mott Street, just south of Broome. A 4$ contribution goes to the readers.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:28:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dan raphael Subject: Lest I remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Being pretty much a lurker, though long time on the list, I've been waiting for someone else to speak up about sondheim's all too often "poetry" posting to this list. It seems he just views this list as a place to post whatever comes off his typewriter. is there any way to say, just one a week a week, or, allan spend a little time with the poem/work before springing onto the hundreds of readers of this list. dan raphael ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:30:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Re: Tom Phillips refs. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sorry to post to the list at large, but my backchannel response got zapped. Alan, could you please contact me about this McCaffery piece? Thanks. Patrick Pritchett pritchpa@silverplume.iix.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:54:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Booglit 6: The Kerouac issue, NYC Pub. Party w/David Amram & more Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Safe in Heaven Dead: Booglit Remembers Jack Kerouac Monday October 25, 1999, 8:00p.m. sharp Oasis Lounge 21 St. Mark’s Place (1st-A) New York City Booglit 6: The Kerouac issue, publication party with special guest David Amram legendary musician and Kerouac collaborator and performances by Mark Fisher, Eliot Katz, Wendy Kramer, Eero Ruutilla, Herschel Silverman, Dan Shot, Maryclaire Wellinger, Ian Wilder, and Kimberly Wilder Hosted by Booglit editor David A. Kirschenbaum For more info: 212-206-8899 email: info@booglit.com Directions: R to 8th Street, 6th to Astor Place or L to 1st Avenue. Venue on left. No cover. Followed by house jazz band. Issues available for $10 ppd to list members ($5 of which goes to Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! a nonprofit community group): Checks payable to: Booglit 351 W.24th St. Suite 19E New York, NY 10011-1510 as ever, David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:47:58 -0700 Reply-To: egleaso1@nycap.rr.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: eric gleason Subject: Re: demographic query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'll get more specific. I'm looking at a possible move to Memphis. What goes poetically there? -e --- "Lowther, John" wrote: > at times i've been interested to see the country by > country numerical > listing of poetix listees > > but i wonder if it might be possible to zero in on > states or regions and > plot the distribution along those lines > > more for curiousity than any other reason > > but i'd love to know how many listees there are in > > florida > geogia > south carolina > north carolina > virgina > alabama > louisianna > tennesee > mississippi > > that is, the south (did i forget any states ?) > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:05:41 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: an informal survey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >I am interested in a how people actually read books of poetry, > >Jonathan Mayhew >jmayhew@ukans.edu > >i read chris mann from the back o' the bookie to the front, whyche is in >fact the order they were writ//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:36:31 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: The POETRY INTO FILM Competition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >pete, > > any information on obtaining rea's work would be appreciated. I >became interested in her work after seeing the vector poems in _Point of >View_ and translating her brief piece in _sic >(http://www.sicmagazine.com). Yes, I think you should send your films >in even if they won't understand it. > >tom bell > tom just look in the sackner archive of visual poetry webb site good listing of both rea's and serge's work also i think michael and has published a couple of books of their work,, now they both live in germany its easier to contact them whyche means i can get back to where i left off!!! re the films tho they are on super 8 and are the camera copy i never could afford to get a print of 'em///pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:58:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: singing the holes in history In-Reply-To: <0.20503e07.25368cea@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I concur! I bought the book about six weeks ago or more, and it is quite an important work. >A few weeks ago Hank Lazer mentioned Paul Naylor's book _Singing the Holes in >History_(Northwestern University Press). I want to recommend it also. The >author, Paul Naylor, gives interesting readings of Susan Howe, Nathaniel >Mackey, Lyn Hejinian, Kamau Brathwaite and M. Nourbese Phillip ************************************************************ Today we declare: First, they are living in a Nono form; Second, they are Nono lives; Third, they make us feel Nono; Fourth, they make us become Nono; Fifth, we Nono. Lan Ma "Manifesto of Nonoism" (Chendu, China, May 4, 1986) *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:11:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Re: singing the holes in history In-Reply-To: <0.20503e07.25368cea@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII re Paul Naylor's Poetic investigations: I have read so far the intro and the 1st chapter (on Howe); a very interesting book--it seems a little quaint to me: Naylor, who (like your trusty correspondent) strongly identifies with active left political engagement, makes that political viewpoint the main organizing strand of his book . (Unlike moi, he follows the current fashion of dismissing most of the long tradition of socialism, embracing in its stead the political theories of Mouffe and Leclau..) His strong adherence to a serious leftism causes him to actually start each discussion (in what i've read so far) with a rather defensive explanation that yes the work of these poets is very dense and impenetrable, and appears to be solipsistic and opaque, but he will show how it is actually good writing characterized by a responsible social and political engagement... Thus, he (more or less consciously) piches his analysis in the key of your "activist in the street" who has an automatic reflex action of vulgar zhdanovist horror, when confronted with contemporary writing.... Since as an activist i've hung out with such people all my life, i see the utility in this, i guess.. But this rather hectic way of starting each analysis with an acknowledgment of the supposed "difficulty" of our finest contemporary poets strikes me as...well, quaint. Anyone interested enuff to be reading Naylor is probably also bright enuff to begin grappling with real poetry by herself.. In some respects we should be past the point of having to apologize for good writing.. (More substantively: the intro seems OK, though not earth-shaking...but the chapter on Howe says little new, it seems to me: the way in which she builds her work around the voices of the dispossessed of history, has already been much commented on, by her and by many others..) This is not to dismiss Tom's point: it seems a mildly valuble book; & highly visible discussions of our best contemporary poets, are to be encouraged, *especially* from university presses, who are usually so firm in their across-the-board commitment to dreck mark prejsnar On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Tom Beckett wrote: > A few weeks ago Hank Lazer mentioned Paul Naylor's book _Singing the Holes in > History_(Northwestern University Press). I want to recommend it also. The > author, Paul Naylor, gives interesting readings of Susan Howe, Nathaniel > Mackey, Lyn Hejinian, Kamau Brathwaite and M. Nourbese Phillip > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 04:30:38 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mopehaus Productions Subject: EX Comments: To: mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, richardfrey@DCA.Net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@MAIL.TJU.EDU, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "EX" a multimedia performance music by Mike Higgins words & video by Jason Brooks choreography by Michelle Fenner October 20, 1999 8pm St. Mary's Church (3912 Locust Walk) Philadelphia "EX" will be a kind of sensory overload rooted in the revolution fantasies of the Romantics with some help from Dole Pineapple, William Blake, and manically depressed Arab emigrates. Yes, yes, sexy indeed... MIKE HIGGINS is a composer from Liverpool (UK) and is very much into Pierre Boulez and Thomas Bernhard. His work is usually very minimal and can span up to 20 hours. Is he avant garde? Well, what does that mean anyway? JASON BROOKS is a poet and Philadelphia native. He used to write pornographic punk-type stuff, but doesn't do that anymore. Some of his work will be published by Head Hunter Press's "Lambs for the Sacrifice Anthology" this winter. MICHELLE FENNER is from San Francisco and is the newest member of Temple University's graduate Dance Program. She has toured the US and Europe with various companies. She is also a master (or is it mistress ?) of improvisation. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:53:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: "pensare" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The critic's task is to think, not just render passive > evaluation on execution, defering to rules laid down by the poet... And "to think" means what, nowadays? Eliot liked to say D.H. Lawrence could not be accused of thinking, of having a thought; I guess he thought Lawrence's mental activity was mere will to organize sense impressions or politico-sexual platforms? In any case Mark's view of the critic as prescriptive sounds like a good possibility for criticism but we gotta read miranda rights to the article he uses -- as long as we're on the "A POETICS" list -- now over on the B+ POETICS list it's another story. But Mark, what about the possibility of a genuinely sociological criticism, anthropological even, investigating the set of beliefs (manners, fetishes, however you want to label the learned-behavior) in the background of the work? Like, to know that Hopkins and Merce Cunningham were in Olson's head as much as the more obvious influences of Pound Yeats and WCW. And to know about where he grew up, and what his politics were, and what rules he was laying down -- so that we don't have to judge him by, say, Edwardian, or high modernist standards? Just some, em, ur, thoughts? Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:11:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: up with down! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan Raphael expressed this to the list, neglecting to capitalize his name properly, which I hate and hope something can be done about but I'll overlook because he's onto a major issue here: "I've been waiting for someone else to speak up about sondheim's all too often "poetry" posting to this list. It seems he just views this list as a place to post whatever comes off his typewriter." right on with the censorship idea! we can't let this list become prey to those who wish to post to it. we are caught up all the time with stuff, gobs of stuff. we need less stuff. we need to cut back. the heretics are ruining the garden, everything is so bad. I'm being oppressed. there are children everywhere. people are talking. it was really rainy yesterday. I can't take it anymore. Alan Sondheim keeps writing stuff, and it's not "real" poetry. it's stuff that just came off his typewriter, as opposed to the other kind. what right does he have? let us band together, I mean it, and demand that Alan stop posting stuff from his typewriter because if he doesn't we're going to have to learn how to use the delete button, and I for one am much too busy for that. yours with an urgent sense of a vast problem, yet one, I think, that we can lick, if we just, like, you know, whatever. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:22:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Lest I remember Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Using your delete key is an option you may wish to exercise if you don't like what someone shares. Some of us enjoy Alan's writing and his zeal at least enough not to want to insult him publicly or discourage others who may wish to be just as enthusiastic about their own writings. As in all things (the wisdom of post-crit?) it's all just a matter of taste. Maybe more people could post their own writing to the list. Maybe less people would advertise their pubs with the typical roll calls of names of writers. Again, a matter of taste. But then again this is a moderated list, so maybe my opined gape means little. Patrick "can't we all just get along" Herron "a matter of taste" "anarchopoesis" "why must we aspire to distal puppeteering" "thanks for youer response!" "blame, shame, lame, fame" Being pretty much a lurker, though long time on the list, I've been waiting for someone else to speak up about sondheim's all too often "poetry" posting to this list. It seems he just views this list as a place to post whatever comes off his typewriter. is there any way to say, just one a week a week, or, allan spend a little time with the poem/work before springing onto the hundreds of readers of this list. dan raphael ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:34:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CharSSmith@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Tom Phillips refs. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Phillips site has moved a few times. There are several essays & RealAudio files of TP reading. It's now at: http://www.humument.com --cs << A couple of short ones: Steve McCaffery has a very brief discussion of Phillips in his essay "The Scandal of Sincerity: Towards a Levinasian Poetics," *Pretexts: Studies in Writing and Culture* 6.2 (1997): 167-190. In a note he cites a web site that apparently has Phillips material so maybe that'll be helpful: www.wolfenet.com/duchamp/ >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:49:04 PDT Reply-To: gaufred@leland.stanford.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: Lest I remember (Sondheim posts) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dan Raphael wrote: >Being pretty much a lurker, though long time on the list, I've been >waiting for someone else to speak up about sondheim's all too often >"poetry" posting to this list. It seems he just views this list as a >place to post whatever comes off his typewriter. is there any way to >say, just one a week a week, or, allan spend a little time with the >poem/work before springing onto the hundreds of readers of this list. > >dan raphael NO NO NO! I, though also largely a lurker, view Sondheim's posts as an integral and indispensable pattern of fabric in the overall weave of this list. To a considerable (though of course partial) degree, they _are_ the list. Any legislation imposed on this generously continual contribution would be destructive and wrongheaded, in my opinion. I'd feel this way even if I felt that there _were_ some truth to the claim that these posts were sometimes just "whatever comes off [Sondheim's] typewriter." That this claim seems to me to be perverse only intensifies my feeling. Of course it's important to exercise discretion in keeping the list at some sort of manageable economy, but does this economy really necessitate the curtailment of what has become a distinguishing mark of the list's _character_ (and if I here seem to invoke a concept that is for some uncomfortably akin to notions of "voice," "inviduality," etc., oh well!)? I hereby cast my vote for more uncensored, straight-from-the-source, Jennifer meatgirl cancer error message text daily. Kasey --------------------------------- K. Silem Mohammad Santa Cruz, California (831) 429-4068 gaufred@leland.stanford.edu OR immerito@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:07:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: Do you trade? In-Reply-To: <19991013233019.96508.qmail@hotmail.com> from "David Kirschenbaum" at Oct 13, 1999 07:30:19 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, I've been trying to stop trading b/c I do a fairly small run and have been trading myself right out of stock lately. But I like the stuff you do at Boog. You wanna give me some abbreviated list of titles and I'll pick a couple things to swap you for? Let me know. -Mike. According to David Kirschenbaum: > > Michael-Grabbed a combo at Granary books moving sale, nice stuff. Do you > trade? > as ever, > David Kirschenbaum, editor > Boog Literature > (formalities upon introduction only) > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:37:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: Brian Lennon In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991008144538.00a5c820@pop3.zipworld.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have Brian Lennon's E-mail address? Thanks, Katy Lederer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:49:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Re: Lest I remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like it. I like seeing it whenever he's ready to show it. ---------- > From: dan raphael > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Lest I remember > Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 4:28 PM > > Being pretty much a lurker, though long time on the list, I've been waiting > for someone else to speak up about sondheim's all too often "poetry" posting > to this list. It seems he just views this list as a place to post whatever > comes off his typewriter. > is there any way to say, just one a week a week, or, allan spend a little > time with the poem/work before springing onto the hundreds of readers of > this list. > > dan raphael ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:57:56 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: demographic query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed John Lowther wrote: >>at times i've been interested to see the country by country numerical >>listing of poetix listees >> >>but i wonder if it might be possible to zero in on states or regions and >>plot the distribution along those lines >> >>more for curiousity than any other reason >> >>but i'd love to know how many listees there are in >> >>florida >>geogia >>south carolina >>north carolina >>virgina >>alabama >>louisianna >>tennesee >>mississippi >> >>that is, the south (did i forget any states ?) pete spece wrote: >what about the SOUTH ZAUMIST PROTECTORITE whyche i'm LIT Minister of!! >pete >spence Mark DuCharme writes: ...& while we're being regionalist, what about per-capita List subscription by city or Metropolitan area? (Boulder, the poetry scene/city which I inhabit, comes to mind, but there are plenty of others: SF, NY, Lawrence KS, Philly, etc., etc. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:44:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: juliana spahr Subject: dobyns v. hejinian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems that both Dobyns and Hejinian sell more or less similarly in poetry sales (which I think might complicate the marginal v. mainstream set up). Dobyns Velocities: New and Selected Poems sold 9,421 copies as of August of 1999 (a single title such as Dobyn's Body Traffic sold 3,066); Hejinian's My Life has sold around 8,000 copies as of September 1999 (Sun & Moon edition only; Burning Deck edition sold out but I don't know the print run on that). I don't have stats on other Hejinian titles but imagine they are less. Although one thing to consider is that Dobyns's Velocities was published in 1994. Hejinian has accumulated those sales over a much a longer time. It might take some more time to actually straighten out the sales similarities. Who knows though if Velocities will get the long term spread of sales that My Life has. Still seems like an interesting similarity considering the muscle of Penguin v. Sun & Moon and also there must be significant spin off sales b/c of Dobyns's other writings that make his poetry sell better. (He seems to be the best selling Penguin poet.) Lisa Samuels has an article written shortly after (it seems) Beach's where she complains about the canonization of My Life in MLS. I'm looking forward to reading the Beach. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:52:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dirk Rowntree Subject: Re: Lest I remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I disagree with Dad Raphael when he writes that Allan Sondheim posts to the list “too often”. A discussion of this topic will perhaps go the core function or definition of the list's objectives, which could be interesting. Sondhiem’s postings can be interesting to highly engaging on an individual basis and, on a broader more conceptual basis, bring up implications for the use of the list or for the use of the internet that have a good bit of vitality and relevance. I certainly discourage any attempt by the list oversight people to censor or control this type of posting activity. Dirk Rowntree ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:12:48 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: demographic query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >not to mention the virtually adjacent Autonomous Freestate of Zaumnaya, >42 degrees Lat N. > >Rasputin Zukofsky >projectivist heretic > >Zaum in the Age of Electronic Huts >http://net22.com/qazingulaza/zaum.html > ,,,,nice to see someone with a sense of place pete spence ministry of zaum ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:28:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: gratitude MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII o thank you for listening, jennifer thank you for listening, jennifer when I talk to you, and I do, I want to talk with you, for we have no friends. I don't want to talk at you, and I do, because I talk to you, and the whole of the world listens. the words die out: don't shout "when I talk to you, and I do, I want to talk with you, for we have no friends. I don't want to talk at you, and I do, because I talk to you, and the whole of the world listens. the words die out, don't shout." ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:37:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Carter Subject: "seasonally" undulant little invite: writing group (email list: crosscurrentseas: http://crosscurrentseas.listbot.com/ (check out archives)) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" { } riddle announcement here: "we" got a new though now not so new though still relatively new tracing/ marking/re-marking/lacing/stitching/collaging/interpolating/intertexting/ weaving/knitting/sewing/sowing/disseminating/writing list here that "we" started, could be that you started it too, so "we" might well be "you" too (U-2?). it's basically an anarkisstic, chaos, free-associational, collaborative, type type thing, like a group o' folks (though right now the the number of members relatively small, about 50 or so) playing/singing music, dancing t' music, together, only we'd be writing together. though there would be no stipulation that anybody had to collaborate. one could write by one's l(onesome) and let everyone see what they came up with or one could do whatever, individually and/or collaboratively with one or more or no others. who knows how it would/could all work out or not?!. right now the list is called "crosscurrentseas", but that could very well be changed to reflect the intuition/vision/desire/dream/imagination/thought/feeling of the group. to subscribe or unsubscribe or to access *archives* go to: http://crosscurrentseas.listbot.com/ -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:20:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I wrote (gruffly, and probably too stridently): > "The difficulty here is that it sets up the game in favor of the > experimentalist. I doubt Dobyns would view his own poetry's importance in > the way it articulates new perspectives or generates innovative formal and > cognitive structures -- there might be other terms he would use -- so the > fact that his work _doesn't_ do that is of no consequence. None. Nor do > these criteria make any headway into understanding what readers actually > _do_ with Dobyns, which as far as I could tell Beach couldn't care less > about. Certainly the article in Contemporary Literature, on which I assume > this chapter is based, provided no such analysis. Perhaps the values of > Dobyns's audience are not Beach's -- given that possibility, it is at least > worth asking what people who _do_ get something out of it get. > I'm no fan of Stephen Dobyns. But Beach's article is not cultural > criticism or literary sociology." > To which John Lowther responded : > i'm toeing into unknown waters here > as i have not, as yet read the book > but to the above i wd like to ask one question > > david, are you actually "behind" the notion > that it is only sympathetic readers of dobyns > that only their *use* of said poet is worthwhile > is "of consequence" ? I'm not sure I understand the question. I _do_ think that Beach's analysis is dismissive of the real issue of audience. In fact, his analysis of Dobyns's audience is wholly dismissive: it is a "built-in academic audience of more than three hundred creative writing programs" (59). While a few gestures are made toward what reviewers have to say about Dobyns, or more often what they do not say: "reviewers seldom speak about his use of form, if they mention it at all." (61) What unsympathetic readers might do with Dobyns -- or other mainstream poets -- is an interesting sociological question. I imagine the anti-mainstream focus of much alternative poetics could be the subject of a pretty cool study. But that's not what Beach examines; rather, it's what he exemplifies. > now, i grant, immediately, that in a sociology > of anything one wd want to have this "inside" > view of the dobyns' lovin poetry public > (i'm somewhat curious as to why they do like him myself) > > but, do we believe that bourdieu (or anyone) can > in fact, step outside of their slurs, preconceptions etc > sufficiently to provide the analysis that you seem > to be calling beach to task for ? Not a total analysis, no. But there could be a variety of ways of getting closer -- surveys of workshop participants, close analysis of the terms of positive reviews without snide dismissals of those same reviews, etc. > again, forgive if my comments arent to the point > as i have not read this book, i simply wonder > at the implications in some of this > > for instance, if bourdieu only makes an appearance > in footnotes perhaps holding beach to the yardstick > of him isnt' quite appropriate ? It' much more than footnotes. It's in the introduction, it's all over Chapter 2. > perhaps > that is "of no consequence" as it doesnt address itself > to what the book _does_ for those who've > found it interesting and an OK introduction to > slices of the poetic pie that they might not otherwise > come upon (as it seem to have for mark p > in relation to the slam stuff) ?? I presented my view of Beach's article pretty harshly, more harshly than I would put it in a professional review. In view of the crap that'sout there posing as poetry criticism, Beach's work is a positive good -- in fact, I think from my cursory reading that the slam stuff is excellent. Cheers, David David Kellogg kellogg@duke.edu Duke University, University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:36:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Lowther, John" wrote: > well, i already questioned whether this > seeming objectivity cd be attained, but > just now i'm wondering about why exactly > the attempt to > > "understand the work of art in it's reality as a fetish" > > isnt swallowed by the proposed economy > of the literary and artistic field --- and thus > this understanding of the work of art > in it's "reality as fetish" yet another things which > would need "find it's place in the model" > > arent works of art often fetishized by those > who also have beliefs of varying sorts about > art ---- consider gallery owners > who in some instances cd care less about > the work but wish to surround it with the aura > to fetishize it, such that it will sell --- this > is different certainly, but how different ? > > perhaps i am not clear on bourdieu's use > of the word "fetish" ? Excellent question. Bourdieu's notion of the "fetish" owes a lot to Marx, natch, but also plugs in to his own concept of a "circle of belief," in this case the "believers" in poetry or those who benefit from that belief. (Literary critics, for example.) I don't mean to use PB like a sacred text, but a lot of what you have said here seems well addressed by another passage in the Field of Cultural Production: "The ideology of creation, which makes the author the first and last source of the value of his work, conceals the fact that the cultural businessman (art dealer, publisher, etc.) is at one in the same time the person who exploits the labor of the "creator" by trading in the "sacred" in the person who, by putting it on the market, by exhibiting, publishing or staging it, consecrates a product which he has "discovered" and which would otherwise remain in your natural resources; and more consecrated he personally is, the more strongly consecrates the work. The art trader is not just the agent who gives the work a commercial value by bringing it into a market; he is not just the representative, the impresario, who "defends the authors he loves." He is the person who can proclaim the value of the author he defends (cf. the fiction of the catalogue or blurb) and above all "invests his prestige" in the author's cause, acting as a "symbolic banker" who offers as security although symbolic capital he has accumulated (which he is liable to forfeit if he backs a "loser"). This investment, of which the accompanying "economic" investments are themselves only a guarantee, is what brings the producer into the cycle of consecration. Entering the field of literature is not so much like going into religion as getting into a select club: the publisher is one of those prestigious sponsors (together with preface-writers and critics) who effusively recommend their candidate. Even clearer is the role of the art dealer, who literally has to "introduce" the artist and his work into ever more select company (group exhibitions, one-man shows, prestigious collections, museums) and ever more sought-after places. But the law of this universe, whereby the less invisible the investment, the more productive it is symbolically, means that promotion exercises, which in the business world take the overt form of publicity, must here me euphemized. The art trader cannot serve his "discovery" unless he applies all his conviction, which rules out "sordidly commercial" maneuvers, manipulation and the "hard sell," in favor of the softer, more discreet forms of "public relations" (which are themselves a highly euphemized form of publicity) -- receptions, society gatherings, and judiciously placed confidences." (76-7). David Kellogg kellogg@duke.edu Duke University, University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:59:15 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pattie McCarthy Subject: query : : zukofsky MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello. could someone please point me in the direction of anything written on Zukofsy's 80 Flowers ? backchannel appreciated & thanks very much in advance. --Pattie McCarthy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:12:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: ashbery query In-Reply-To: <19991015005446.28049.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hi all; a colleague who's using a few lines from The Waves as an epigraph wants to know about critical work on in. i can't think of anything; can you? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:15:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: the press In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi folks, i see a Gestetner 360 printer in the paper and will go and have a look at it tomorrow. can anyone help me out with things to look for. are materials available still? the fellow on the phone says that he has extra roles and paper and stuff for colour printing. the paper says 200$, is this good(in canadian funds of course). any help will be appreciated. thanks, kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:59:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: hoa nguyen writing exercise Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII to check out hoa's latest poetry writing exercise on WriteNet, go to http://www.twc.org/forums/hnguyen_exercise12.html For an index of all the exercises she's put up over the years, go to http://www.writenet.org/virtualpoetrywrkshp.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:56:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Prejsnar wrote: > "I doubt Dobyns would view his own poetry's importance in the way it > articulates new perspectives or generates innovative formal and cognitive > structures -- there might be other terms he would use -- so the fact that > his work _doesn't_ do that is of no consequence. None." > > ************* > > Wrong. Dead wrong. As a reader of poetry (and therefore as a critic as > well), it's my right AND (to wax civic here a bit) my duty, to decide what > is important in poetry. Well, sure. Everybody does that already. And insofar as Beach proclaims his own differences with Dobyns, I have no problem with his readings. It's when Beach substitutes "the reader" or "we" for his own voice and basically erases the difference between a close reading and a sociological engagement that I find > S. Dobyns and all others, have in turn the right to dismiss the criteria i > believe in..... But, no, i don't believe that a critic like Beach should > ask "does Dobyns accomplish what he sets out to do" ? (or rather, he > shouldn't make that his main concern, as implied in the quote above..It > will usually be one factor that needs discussing) Why not? Since he frames his work as, in part, a literary sociology: a work that addresses "literary production and reception," that "attempts to provide some kind of comprehensive or analytical study of poetry as a sociocultural phenomenon." Yet the reception of Dobyns is of no concern to Beach. > Part of what Beach > *should* be doing is: articulating a set of framing arguments regarding > what he thinks poetry ought to be doing.........And judging Dobyns > accordingly. The critic's task is to think, not just render passive > evaluation on execution, defering to rules laid down by the poet... That's a false dichotomy: "framing arguments regarding what he thinks poetry ought to be doing" versus "just render[ing] passive evaluation on execution, defer[r]ing to rules laid down by the poet." In fact, I contributed to that false dichotomy by framing the "consequence" of Beach's position in terms of what Dobyns thinks. More properly, what Dobyns's readers _do_ with Dobyns is the (sociological) point at issue. Mark, why do you lay down the "critic's task" in such prescriptive terms? If Beach wants to act as a critic in the terms you're laying out, fine -- but it's the way criticism (aesthetics) _always_ trumps sociology in this chapter -- the way sociology is just an excuse for another close reading -- that gets me. David Kellogg kellogg@duke.edu Duke University, University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:08:21 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sylvester Pollet Subject: Bishop Nixs Pound! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Awhile back I posted an announcement of Ezra Pound's induction into the Poets Corner at St John the so-called Divine in New York scheduled for later this week. Here's the latest news from Tim Redman (I asked permission to forward this): >I was informed by Omar Pound that Ezra Pound's installation in the >Poet's Corner of St. John the Divine has been denied by the bishop. >Evidently, a petition was circulated among parishioners protesting >the decision by the Electors and threatening a demonstration. > >Tim Redman Anybody know any cardinals? Sylvester ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:51:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: E-mail for Kristin Prevallet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could someone out there please b-c with this? Thanks. Taylor Brady ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:58:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dana Lustig Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips Comments: To: dgscott@leland.Stanford.EDU David: Thanks for the tip. I did contact Mary Ann Caws, and she briefly replied that she has written about/referenced Phillips in the past. Once I get more details, I'll send out a message to the list for those who are interested. She also told me that she is currently working on another essay about his work, which will be published in an "avant-garde mag" (?), but no other details forthcoming yet... Dana Lisa ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Studies or Essays on Tom Phillips Author: dgscott@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU at Internet-USA Date: 10/13/99 4:36 PM As far as i know Mary Ann Caws up at CUNY has written some essays on Phillips, though i'm not sure where they are located. It's a starting point thought. David Giles Scott ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:13:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: David Buuck and Brian Kim Stefans Reading at Small Press Traffic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1271837713==_ma============" --============_-1271837713==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Small Press Traffic Reading David Buuck and Brian Kim Stefans Friday, October 22, 7:30 p.m. When people ask, what's really new in poetry, we always give a name or two, and one is David Buuck's. His tentative, exacting poetry can be brutal at times; its enveloping structures want to pack the whole world in a suitcase, then fling it away. There is the constant questioning, abasement, loneliness; a concomitant beauty is born. David Buuck lives in San Francisco, where he co-edits Tripwire: a journal of poetics with Yedda Morrison. He is a 1999 Artist-in-Residence at the Headlands Center for the Arts in Marin. His poetry, prose, & essays appear or will appear in Object, Outlet, Torque, Lyric&, h2so4, Impossible Object, 5_Trope, Situation, and a new chapbook from Melodeon. This fall he enters the History of Consciousness Program at UCSC. This will be Brian Kim Stefans' first reading in San Francisco, and we've been trying for a year to get him here. The formal experimentation that characterized 70s and 80s "Language Poetry" is here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture injection of speed, interface, dynamism, wit. Brian Kim Stefans is the author of Free Space Comix (Roof Books, 1998), Gulf (Object Editions, 1998) and co-author (with Sianne Ngai) of The Cosmopolitans ("Interlope," issue 2). His graphic and interactive poetry can be found at www.ubu.com, and the on-line poetry journal he edits, Arras, is at www.bway.net/~arras. Criticism is forthcoming in Talisman. He works as Associate Project Coordinator in the web department at Fodor's Travel. When people ask, what's really new in poetry, we always give a name or two, and one is Brian Kim Stefans'. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1271837713==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" PalatinoSmall Press Traffic Reading David Buuck and Brian Kim Stefans Friday, October 22, 7:30 p.m. When people ask, what's really new in poetry, we always give a name or two, and one is David Buuck's. His tentative, exacting poetry can be brutal at times; its enveloping structures want to pack the whole world in a suitcase, then fling it away. There is the constant questioning, abasement, loneliness; a concomitant beauty is born. David Buuck lives in San Francisco, where he co-edits Tripwire: a journal of poetics with Yedda Morrison. He is a 1999 Artist-in-Residence at the Headlands Center for the Arts in Marin. His poetry, prose, & essays appear or will appear in Object, Outlet, Torque, Lyric&, h2so4, Impossible Object, 5_Trope, Situation, and a new chapbook from Melodeon. This fall he enters the History of Consciousness Program at UCSC. This will be Brian Kim Stefans' first reading in San Francisco, and we've been trying for a year to get him here. The formal experimentation that characterized 70s and 80s "Language Poetry" is here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture injection of speed, interface, dynamism, wit. Brian Kim Stefans is the author of Free Space Comix (Roof Books, 1998), Gulf (Object Editions, 1998) and co-author (with Sianne Ngai) of The Cosmopolitans ("Interlope," issue 2). His graphic and interactive poetry can be found at www.ubu.com, and the on-line poetry journal he edits, Arras, is at www.bway.net/~arras. Criticism is forthcoming in Talisman. He works as Associate Project Coordinator in the web department at Fodor's Travel. When people ask, what's really new in poetry, we always give a name or two, and one is Brian Kim Stefans'. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1271837713==_ma============-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:26:34 -0500 Reply-To: jsmcd@poetrynow.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Judy Smith McDonough Organization: poetrynow Subject: newest edition of poetrynow online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hot off the cyberpress: volume 2 number 1 poetrynow ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:28:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Small Press Publications Announcements deadline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The deadline for this week's Small Press Listing @ Duration Press is this Friday. All publishers (of books, journals, etc.) who are interested in having their publications listed should mail all pertinent information--titles, authors, prices, ordering info, contact info, etc.--to jerrold@durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:16:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Pecqueur" Subject: APR--Honickman First Book Award In-Reply-To: <199910021701.KAA00289@lanshark.lanminds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Listees: I was wondering if anyone has the submission guidelines for APR's Honickman award. Creeley is judging it this year. They ask for a self-addressed envelope for guidelines; and sometimes even this doesn't work to get the information. If anyone could help out with this info, backchannel would probably be best, I'd much appreciate it. Jean-Paul Pecqueur ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:36:39 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Fogarty Subject: Re: Lest I remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Without wanting to start throwing petrol cans about, > Being pretty much a lurker, though long time on the list, I've been waiting > for someone else to speak up about sondheim's all too often "poetry" posting > to this list. It seems he just views this list as a place to post whatever > comes off his typewriter. Isn't that the exact thing we do here; this list is a place to post whatever comes off our typewriters, be it this very post, a notice that poetry readings are being held in a city on the other side of the planet, a work of poetry/poetics, or critical commentary? I don't know how long Sondheim sits on his work before he sends it to this list, but it is part of a greater whole, as I'm sure you'd have seen from his periodic notices. I must admit that very often it is incomprehensible, and that is an utterly refreshing change from the thousands of comprehensible posts which make their fleeting appearances in my filters and end up written over when I empty my trash. Sondheim is one of the few people whose work I keep: looking at my poetics inbox, AH Bramhall, John Lowther, Miekal And, David Bromige, Ron Silliman dominate amongst the other men and women of this list for the frequency of appearance of their names. As a lurker, you've only just revealed your presence, and you do so with a criticism, as did I, I must admit. I don't know, it just seems facile to criticise someone for posting whatever comes off their typewriter. This just came off my own typewriter [#%$^string decrypted&} sparks crackle into auditory nerve; sound explodes with its signature before the implant melts; a bubbling of skin, boiling of eye, searing mind filled with human stati; I splash amidst rioting flagellants with eyes ecstastic rebellion against dead lines scatter shot through you, scroll arcing lamplight ignites acrid fuel clotted around the hairs on my body like sand about a pier pole. hairs erect and shrivel evaporate in the rinsin haze. my eyes feel warm and I glow with danger. a torch song on my auditory piano, but here, here! hear! no longer. my ear tickles as magnet melts sight vanishes, primal unmodified silence comes home for the last time mecury runs down my skull, I lose feeling in my feet, my nostrils smell pork roast. penis stands proud. we who are about to die, salute you. survivor! ghosts in the mists rushing panic down grimed synapse service corridors high in the quietness, my nerves shut down auxiliary centers. to cartesian theatre I retreat. in haste dead line readjust! readjust! course correc . . . {!decrypt ended&%@] endobj 7 0 obj << /Im0 11 0 R /Im1 12 0 R >> endobj 6 0 obj << /Length 39490 >> stream it's at http://mutate.co.nz/ if anyone wants to know, view source. should I sit here for a while longer before I posted it? I don't know, that's at my discretion, isn't it? It's a beautiful day outside so I'll just go out and take some panacea from nature. Just one more thing I would like to say: on a poetics list, why is there not more poetics and poetry? The event reviews, the event notices, the book reviews and commentary are excellent, but where's the poetics? I'm too nervous to post my own for the very reason that it has just come off my typewriter and I need to reflect on what I just said before I decide it is worthy. That's a personal thing. Alan clearly thinks his work is worthy of distribution, who is to say he hasn't thought about it before hitting send? and I hit send. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:37:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Carol L. Hamshaw" Subject: [Fwd: Bowering, Compton, Rodin, Warland] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol Hamshaw wrote: > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > The Capilano Review, Issue Launch > November 10, 1999 at 7:30 > The WISE Hall, 1882 Adanac Street, Vancouver > For more information: 984-1712 > > Poetry Blues > > Literary and arts journal,The Capilano Review presents an evening of poetry > and blues as we launch our Fall 1999 issue. Readings will be given by > George Bowering, Renee Rodin, Wayde Compton and Betsy Warland between > musical sets from the Jelly Roll Blues Band. The event starts at 7:30 in > The WISE Social and Athletic Club's upstairs hall, on November 10, 1999. > ADMISSION IS FREE; buy a $5 membership and get a copy of the new issue free. > > Sponsorship by Storm Brewing, Ltd. > > Author Bios: > > GEORGE BOWERING has published books in almost every mode and genre but has > never been nominated for a B.C. Book Prize. His newest book is a popular > history, Egoists and Autocrats. About the Canadian prime ministers, it is > published by Viking, and will be published in paperback by Penguin. > WAYDE COMPTON is a Vancouver writer. 49th Parallel Psalm (Advance > Editions, 1999) is his first book, a documentary long poem chronicling the > African Canadian presence in British Columbia from the arrival of the first > black settlers in 1858 to the present. > RENEE RODIN lives in Vancouver and is the author of Bread and Salt (Talon > Books). She is currently working on a new collection of writing and is > delighted to be in the first issue with Ryan Knighton as editor and wishes > him lots of luck. > BETSY WARLAND's most recent book of poetry, What Holds Us Here, was > published in 1998. Her prose manuscript, Bloodroot, will be published by > Second Story Press, Spring 1999. She is currently working on Breathing the > Page -- a series of meditations on the materials of writing. > > About The Capilano Review > > Since its inception in 1972, The Capilano Review has published some of the > finest fiction, poetry, drama and visual art in Canada and throughout the > world. The magazine has been recognized for its superlative content by five > National Magazine Awards, two Western Magazine Awards and a citation from > the Canadian Studies Association. We have published Phyllis Webb, George > Bowering, Daphne Marlatt, Evelyn Lau, Susan Crean, Roy Kiyooka, bpNichol, > Michael Ondaatje, Margaret Atwood,Robin Blaser, Brian Fawcett, John > Newlove, Duncan McNaughton, bill bissett, Audrey Thomas and numerous other > internationally acclaimed writers and artists. > > The Capilano Review gratefully acknowledges the assistance of the Canada > Council for the Arts, the Province of British Columbia, through the British > Columbia Arts Council, and the Capilano College Humanites Division. > > Carol L. Hamshaw > Managing Editor > The Capilano Review > 604-984-1712 > > http://www.capcollege.bc.ca/dept/TCR > > For submission guidelines, please see > > http://www.capcollege.bc.ca/dept/TCR/submit.html -- Carol L. Hamshaw Administrator Edgewise ElectroLit Centre http://www.edgewisecafe.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:08:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Mangold/Alexander addresses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If anyone has a current address for Sarah Mangold or Charles Alexander I'd be grateful for a backchannel....Thanks. Elizabeth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:50:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: a review of Kenneth Koch's "Making Your Own Days" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII California-based writer Jordan Clary reviews _Making Your Own Days_, written by Kenneth Koch and published by Simon & Schuster, 1999. To read it, go to http://www.writenet.org/TT_MYOD_FAQ.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:47:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Fouhy Subject: Poetry & Open Mike! Comments: To: Amy Holman , Andrew Bassford , "annebutts@aol.com" , bertha , "BJCarson@aol.com" , "brbennett@henry.wells.edu" , "bronxart@artswire.net" , "Chapter9@aol.com" , Catherine Michna , "chillyb@banet.net" , "DGoet@aol.com" , "Driftspin@aol.com" , "Exoterica@aol.com" , "HireAPoet@aol.com" , "jdavis@panix.com" , jenny bitner , Karen M Wilson , "kitchen@panix.com" , "kmasterson@nysca.org" , "LGCSCNY@aol.com" , "lindabm@queens.lib.ny.us" , "Lorib40@aol.com" , "MHunnewell@aol.com" , "Monet18673@aol.com" , Nancy Desmond , "NCGiles@aol.com" , "radio@ncpr.org" , "RECREV@aol.com" , "Salious1@aol.com" , Sally Ann Hard , "SSAPhD@aol.com" , "taylororigami@juno.com" , Teresa Burgun , "writenet@twc.org" , "wtrctr@artswire.org" , "XxSENKERxX@aol.com" , "Yaydrew@aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------30D65673680E401E971CF1E3" --------------30D65673680E401E971CF1E3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is a guaranteed excellent poetry reading!! Don't miss it! Northern Westchester Center For The Arts Creative Arts Café Poetry Series 272 N. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY For information call: 914 241 6922 For immediate release: Poet RON PRICE at Creative Arts Café Poetry Series followed by OPEN MIKE Mt. Kisco, NY: The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts continues its weekly poetry readings and open mike Monday, October 18th with poet Ron Price who is currently an artist/teacher in residence at the Juilliard School of Performing Arts in New York City. The reading begins at 7:30 PM and is followed by a reception, book signing and an open mike for audience participation. Ron Price is an award winning poet and translator and the author of Surviving Brothers. He is a founding member of the Free Peoples Poetry Workshop in Memphis and in Philadelphia. He was a teaching fellow for Writing Across the Curriculum and has taught through Poets in the Schools, Poets in the Parks and Poets in Prisons. Ron Price currently is a Poet/teacher in residence at the Juilliard School of Performing Arts and teaches poetry writing at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts. There is a reception and book signing following the reading. The audience is invited to read original poetry or favorite poems at the Open Mike. There is a suggested donation (not required!) of $7.00 at the door; $5.00 for students and seniors. This series is sponsored, in part, by the New York State Council on the Arts, the Bydale Foundation and private funds. The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series meets every Monday night at 7:30 at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts located at 272 N. Bedford Road in Mt. Kisco. Easily accessible by railroad from NYC: Harlem Line (Brewster North) to Mt. Kisco Station. From station, cab is $3.00 - 3 minutes to art center! For a schedule of readings and literary Arts workshops and classes or directions to NWCA, please call 914 241 6922. --------------30D65673680E401E971CF1E3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a guaranteed excellent poetry reading!! Don't miss it!
 

Northern Westchester Center For The Arts
Creative Arts Café Poetry Series
272 N. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY
For information call: 914 241 6922

For immediate release:
 

Poet RON PRICE at Creative Arts Café Poetry Series
followed by OPEN MIKE

Mt. Kisco, NY: The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts continues its weekly poetry readings and open mike Monday, October 18th  with poet Ron Price who is currently an artist/teacher in residence at the Juilliard School of Performing Arts in New York City.  The reading begins at 7:30 PM and is followed by a reception, book signing and an open mike for audience participation.

Ron Price is an award winning poet and translator and the author of Surviving Brothers. He is a founding member of the Free Peoples Poetry Workshop in Memphis and in Philadelphia.  He was a teaching fellow for Writing Across the Curriculum and has taught through Poets in the Schools, Poets in the Parks and Poets in Prisons. Ron Price currently is a Poet/teacher in residence at the Juilliard School of Performing Arts and teaches poetry writing at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts.

There is a reception and book signing following the reading.  The audience is invited to read original poetry or favorite poems at the Open Mike.

There is a suggested donation (not required!) of $7.00 at the door; $5.00 for students and seniors.

This series is sponsored, in part, by the New York State Council on the Arts, the Bydale Foundation and private funds.

The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series meets every Monday night at 7:30 at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts located at 272 N. Bedford Road in Mt. Kisco.  Easily accessible by railroad from NYC: Harlem Line (Brewster North) to Mt. Kisco Station. From station, cab is $3.00 - 3 minutes to art center! For a schedule of readings and literary Arts workshops and classes or directions to NWCA, please call 914 241 6922.
 
 
 
  --------------30D65673680E401E971CF1E3-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:15:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Grad School Grafitto Comments: To: "apg) karen" , "apg) maryanne del gigante" , bmcgrat@learnlink.emory.edu, cdunne@emory.edu, danalisalustig@hotmail.com, dlustig@dttus.com, jbs@mmmlaw.com, mprejsn@law.emory.edu, ranprunty@aol.com, tedd.mulholland@gte.net, Wrbkkr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "always already" = a priori ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:26:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: _Words_ by R.C. Comments: To: "apg) karen" , "apg) maryanne del gigante" , bmcgrat@learnlink.emory.edu, cdunne@emory.edu, danalisalustig@hotmail.com, dlustig@dttus.com, jbs@mmmlaw.com, mprejsn@law.emory.edu, ranprunty@aol.com, tedd.mulholland@gte.net, Wrbkkr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain {poetix} a few weeks ago i made a tape --- some 70 minutes of a possible 90 --- me reading the entire book _Words_ by creeley --- it was interesting to do --- to try to get in a reading, singular, something of the complexity that one finds in reading any poem of his --- i have that exact change yearbook with cd and so i had two exempla of his reading style to think about tho, ultimately, my taping doesnt sound too much like how i imagine r.c. wd have read these since then this tape has been in my car player looping continually --- and this being atlanta i spend altogether too much time in that damned car --- but the tape has been a joy i feel like i know this whole book of poems much much better than my previous several-many readings of it had tuned me to --- last night i went back and looked at the text for the 1st time since the recording and the effect is very palpable, that i now know whole passages almost by heart and it isnt that my readings are so brilliant --- in listening to the tape i hear in various places that i've missed a nuance by placing a certain stress here and not there or that something is, due to my reading, off-balance in a way that's not as interesting, or even, balanced in a way that i think wasnt felt, intended etc... do other folks ever do this sort of thing ? i know my friend mark does as that's partially what suggested to me that i might make this tape --- just curious )L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:29:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Bill Zavatsky and Daniel Kane reading at Teachers & Writers Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Self-promotion and more.... Bill Zavatsky, author of "For Steve Royal and Other Poems," translator of Larbaud, writer of many other poems and essays, etc., lines including "My eyelids bury me. Shovels of black whenever I blink. My mother holds Aladdin's lamp in her hands as she reads to me. I am sick. Aladdin is sick,..." and Daniel Kane, poems dotting various magazines, T&W web-boy, horsey lines including "The old white mare is standing motionless at the door the old white mare motionless near the door white mare motionless standing at the door white mare old just standing there barely moving near the door" will read as part of Jordan Davis's "Poetry City" series at Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 - 9 Union Square West, 7th Floor New York, NY 10003 Tel. 212/691-6590 Admission is free, as are the refreshments. Reading begins at 7 pm. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:47:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dean Creighton Subject: The Blue Bottle Project In-Reply-To: <199910121723.KAA24195@lanshark.lanminds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Blue Bottle Project http://smilingdogpress.tripod.com/index.htm Please forward this message at will and whim. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:00:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Oasia broadside #51 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII LEGAL NOTICE OF PUBLICATION Three Poems by Jordan Davis, $2 Backlist available, donations appreciated. For details, write: Oasis Press c/o Stephen Ellis 23 Mitton St Portland ME 04102 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:47:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Bill Zavatsky and Daniel Kane reading, Thursday, Oct. 28 Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII forgot to include the essential fact that the reading is on Thursday, Oct. 28 - apologies for double-posting. Bill Zavatsky, author of "For Steve Royal and Other Poems," translator of Larbaud, writer of many other poems and essays, etc., lines including "My eyelids bury me. Shovels of black whenever I blink. My mother holds Aladdin's lamp in her hands as she reads to me. I am sick. Aladdin is sick,..." and Daniel Kane, poems dotting various magazines, T&W web-boy, horsey lines including "The old white mare is standing motionless at the door the old white mare motionless near the door white mare motionless standing at the door white mare old just standing there barely moving near the door" will read as part of Jordan Davis's "Poetry City" series at Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 - 9 Union Square West, 7th Floor New York, NY 10003 Tel. 212/691-6590 Admission is free, as are the refreshments. Reading begins at 7 pm. #This list-serve is designed for teachers and writers who want #to share ideas on teaching creative writing workshops for students #in grades K-12. To post, send mail to writenet@twc.org. #To join the list-serve, send the message "subscribe writenet" to #majordomo@twc.org. #To join the list-serve digest, which will collect several #messages into a batch and send them to you as one message #(reducing the total amount of messages sent to your mailbox), #send the message "subscribe writenet-digest" to majordomo@twc.org. #To unsubscribe, send the message "unsubscribe writenet" or #"unsubscribe writenet-digest" to majordomo@twc.org. #To view an archive of past messages on the Web, go to # and hit the "Teachers & Writers #Discussion Group" link. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 13:06:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eugene Ostashevsky Subject: handmade books sought Comments: To: rabies23@yahoo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" HAND BOOKS AN EXHIBIT / SALE OF HANDMADE AND PRIVATELY PRINTED / XEROXED BOOKS, ONE-OF-A-KIND'S, ZINES AND CHAPBOOKS TO BE HELD NOVEMBER 6-7 (reception Nov 6) IS LOOKING FOR SUBMISSIONS PLEASE DROP YOUR WORK OFF BEFORE NOVEMBER 3 AT BLUE BOOKS THE NEW SMALL PRESS BOOKSTORE AT NEW COLLEGE 766 VALENCIA AND 19th 415 - 437 - 3494 http://www.newcollege.edu/bluebooks HAND BOOKS IS CURATED BY DARIN KLEIN 415-255-1242 (work exhibited may or may not be for sale if yes, our cut is 40%) PLEASE FORWARD THIS ANNOUNCEMENT TO WHOEVER MIGHT BE INTERESTED ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:03:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: Los Angeles Reading In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Primus St. John will read Wed. Oct. 20 8:00 PM Loyola Marymount University McIntosh Center in Sullivan Hall 7900 Loyola Blvd. just off Manchester near the airport for info call Aldon Nielsen at (310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:09:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Quote of the day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "But you're not *supposed* to understand art.. You're supposed to understand *culture.* Culture is mutual understanding. That is not communication. Communication is what I have in my music, with myself. Communication is when people don't understand each other. Because then there is a consciousness level that is being brought out of you, where an effort is made." --Morton Feldman, as quoted by Clark Coolidge compliments of mark prejsnar @lanta ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:26:05 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: from Jennifer Ley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The new issue of Riding the Meridian Sound/Text Hypertext Text/Text is now online at: http://www.heelstone.com/meridian The Sound/Text Hypertext Text/Text issue of Riding the Meridian was conceived to demonstrate just how much the act of being a poet has been influenced by the Internet in terms of creating and distributing new literary efforts. The work some multimedia poets are doing on the Net has strong roots, stretching into the language poetry community -- into the field of early concrete poetry. Alaric Sumner's section on Sound/Text showcases the talents of seminal contributors to those genres, in the work of Bob Cobbing, Lawrence Upton, John Cayley, Caroline Bergvall and Charles Amirkhanian, among others, while Christy Sheffield Sanford and Jennifer Ley have tapped the field of talent in hypermedia, bringing works by writers like Annie Abrahams, M.D. Coverley and Stephanie Strickland, Deena Larsen and Talan Memmott to show the spectrum of work being created in hypertext. Mark Bernstein, president and chief scientist of Eastgate Systems, Inc., talks about the early days of hypertext and the software he wrote to create it, Storyspace. And, as the talents of pure text poets should not be seen to be overshadowed by this internet explosion of visuals and sounds, we've collected a group of text works highlighted by a selection of poems by David Weinstock from his new collection, Physical Findings. CK Tower has interviewed Alan Kaufman to gain insight into the current Spoken Word phenomenon and Chocolate Waters has brought us Realaudio by New York Spoken Word poet, Mark Larsen. _______ Sound/Text - Editor, Alaric Sumner Creative work by: Charles Amirkhanian miekal and Michael Basinski Caroline Bergvall and John Cayley cris cheek Bob Cobbing Joseph Hyde Tony Kemplen Wendy Kramer Carlyle Reedy Lawrence Upton Articles by cris cheek, Petra Kuppers, Alaric Sumner, Lawrence Upton Domestic Ambient Buoys (Bob Cobbing and Lawrence Upton) in discussion with Alaric Sumner _______ Hypertext and Hypermedia - Co-Curator, Christy Sheffield Sanford Creative work by: Annie Abrahams Diane Caney M.D. Coverley and Stephanie Strickland Deena Larsen Talan Memmott Reiner Strasser Dan Waber geniwate Articles by miekal and, M.D. Coverley Interview with Mark Bernstein, Eastgate Systems, Inc. Roundtable discussion with Robert Kendall, Sue Thomas, Ian Irvine, Alaric Sumner, Christy Sheffield Sanford _______ Text Poetry Creative Work by: Janet I. Buck CE Chaffin Claire Dinsmore Lou Faber Larry Mallory Ken Pobo Barry Spacks James Valvis David Weinstock Articles by Lily Iona MacKenzie, David Weinstock Spoken Word Word for Word: Alan Kaufman interviewed by CK Tower In the Flesh: Spoken Word Poet: Mark Larsen by Chocolate Waters *** editorial contact, Jennifer Ley - anemone@sprynet.com Next issue: Women and Gender, February 2000, in collaboration with Conspire *** Please excuse any cross-postings if you are on several poetry mailing lists. If you receive this announcement as a personal message and wish to be taken off our distribution list, please let us know. -- Riding the Meridian, Sound/Text Hypertext Text/Text guest editor Alaric Sumner, co-curator Christy Sheffield Sanford http://www.heelstone.com/meridian/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:29:03 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: New from Boog: Lee Ann Brown and Eleni Sikelianos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Now available from Boog Literature: Boogmark #1: Lee Ann Brown, "Sustain Petal" Boogcard #4: Eleni Sikelianos, "My love is like talking" $1 each ppd. Published to commemorate the "Women Poets at Barnard College" reading on Thursday October 7, 1999. Brown’s is H-11"x W-2" on cypress green cardstock. Sikelianos's is H-8.5" x W-5.5" on ivory cardstock, with a linoleum block print by Daisy DeCapite, and can be mailed with a 33¢ stamp. Checks payable to: Boog Literature 351 W.24th Street Apt. 19E New York, NY 10011-1510 Email: info@booglit.com Website (under construction): www.booglit.com tel: (212) 206-8899 Boog Literature publications are edited and published by David A. Kirschenbaum. Send SASE, or email, for catalog. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:30:36 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Address Correction: Booglit 6 Pub. Party w/David Amram MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Please note, the Oasis Lounge is located at 121 St. Mark’s Place (1st-A) New York City. All apologies for the confusion and hope to see you there on Monday Oct. 25 at 8pm. as ever, David ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:48:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Frey Subject: Sun., Nov.7, NOTcoffeeHouse - Caine, Levin, Romero, & music-Grant Comments: To: "Watkins, Ed" , bearde@jevs.org, David Moolten , Tasha329@aol.com, Rich Russell , "McQuain, Kelly" , ChrisBartlett , CindyGiddle , "Frank, Lisa" , NaomiGerbarg , PatEgan , PGNDiversions , PhiladelphiaGayNews , PiersMarchant , PhiladelphiaGayNews , "Warner, David" , "Williams, Nancy" , RachelSimon , RaymondDunn , RichardKeiser , RichRussell , RobertDunbar , RobrtPela , RonSwegman , SarahRothchild , sarahvanarsdale , "Sariego, Buddy" , Mark Lord , giophilp@netaxs.com, Writers House , Sue Benston , daisyf1@juno.com, Patrick Kelly , Seguepjd@aol.com, Paula Straka , Jennifer Johnson , Lisa Sewell , Mauri Walton , tgrant@icdc.com, Yolanda Wisher , aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, zurawski@astro.temple.edu, tgrant@icdc.com, Yolanda Wisher , bmcmilla@hotmail.com, Iamblel@aol.com, little@dca.net, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, twourevs@ix.netcom.com, buchanan-richard@dol.gov, CFrey@U.Washington.edu, phoebadams@aol.com, sadorno@philamuseum.org, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, sbenston@haverford.edu, ebest@haverford.edu, brynmawr.edujohnfattibene@juno.com, lmc10@psu.edu, Kyle.Connor@mail.tju.com, cconstan@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, pdarrah@haverford.edu, afilreis@dept.english.upenn.edu, jfoo@sas.upenn.edu, cford@brynmawr.edu, nfoulke@brynmawr.edu, sfried@compuserve.com, mfriedma@haverford.edu, mfriedma@brynmawr.edu, jfritz@haverford.edu, jhart@brynmawr.edu, chenry@haverford.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, john2364@tc.umn.edu, mjjones@brynmawr.edu, mkay@haverford.edu, kirbyl@mcphu.edu, skirby@ledgewood.com, mlord@brynmawr.edu, hlowder@haverford.edu, sarahmce@mail1.netreach.net, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, CM@fpaa.org, jpulver1@swarthmore.edu, jransom@haverford.edu, cridgway@haverford.edu, dsheffie@U.Washington.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, ksherin@dept.english.upenn, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, ssivapal@nyhs.med.cornell.edu, ssumathi@netscape.net, amsmith@haverford.edu, mstremla@haverford.edu, JCTODD66@aol.com, wwhitman@libertynet.org, lwatkins@haverford.edu, iweiss@haverford.edu, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, firstuu@libertynet.org, ashm@libertynet.org, arden@charger.oldcity.dca.net, aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, zurawski@astro.temple.edu, LeonLoo@aol.com, whpoets@english.upenn.edu, ToshiMakihara.mark.Palacio@hotmail.com, cathleen@unix.temple.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (NOTcoffeeHouse) Poetry and Performance Series Sunday, November 7, 1 pm First Unitarian Church 2125 Chestnut Street Featured Readers: Shulamith Wachter Caine is still polishing her craft after having received the Gerald Cable Award from Silverfish Press for best first book for her book of poems, Love Fugue. Lynn Levin is author of A Few Questions About Paradise, a book of poems, $9.95 from Loonfeather Press, P. O. 1212, Bemidji, MN 56619 E-mail brossi@paulbunyan.net. -and she was just named 1999 Bucks County Poet Laureate. Danny Romero is author of the novel, Calle 10, and a widely published poet whose work has been translated into Spanish. He is a teacher of Creative Writing at Temple University. Featured Music: Tom Grant is a songwriter who recorded a CD earlier this year entitled "Streams of Consciousness". It's available through his website http://www.icdc.com/~tgrant Plus Open Poetry and Performance Showcase Along with a live poetry reading and performance , we invite you to join in our website poetry reading presentation. All poets and performers may have a poem or a lyric featured in theNOTcoffeeHouse website. Send your work for inclusion in the ongoing internet presentation. Tell your friends all over the world to check our site! Poets and performers may submit works for direct posting on the website via email to the webmaster@notcoffeehouse.org or works may be emailed to Richard Frey at richardfrey@dca.net or USPS or hand-delivered through slot at 500 South 25th Street, Philadelphia, PA 19146. More information: Church office, 215-563-3980, Jeff Loo, 546-6381 or Richard Frey, 735-7156. Visit our website at www.notcoffeehouse.org poets & performers previously appearing at NOTcoffeeHouse: Nathalie Anderson, Lisa Coffman, Barbara Cole, Barb Daniels, Linh Dinh, Lori-Nan Engler, Simone Zelitch, Dan Evans, Brenda McMillan, Kerry Sherin, John Kelly Green, Emiliano Martin, Jose Gamalinda, Toshi Makihara, Thom Nickels, Joanne Leva, Darcy Cummings, David Moolten, Kristen Gallagher, Shulamith Wachter Caine, Maralyn Lois Polak, Marcus Cafagna, Ethel Rackin, Lauren Crist, Beth Phillips Brown, Joseph Sorrentino, Frank X, Richard Kikionyogo, Elliott Levin, Leonard Gontarek, Lamont Steptoe, Bernard Stehle, Sharon Rhinesmith, Alexandra Grilikhes, C. A. Conrad, Nate Chinen, Jim Cory, Tom Grant, Gregg Biglieri, Stephanie Jane Parrino, Jeff Loo, Theodore A. Harris, Mike Magee, Wil Perkins, Deborah Burnham, UNSOUND, Danny Romero, Don Riggs, Shawn Walker, She-Haw, Scott Kramer, Judith Tomkins, 6 of the Unbearables - Alfred Vitale Ron Kolm, Jim Feast, Mike Carter, Sharon Mesmer, Carol Wierzbicki-,John Phillips, Quinn Eli, Molly Russakoff, Peggy Carrigan, Kelly McQuain, Patrick Kelly, Mark Sarro, Rocco Renzetti, Voices of a Different Dream - Annie Geheb, Ellen Ford Mason, Susan Windle - Bob Perelman, Jena Osman, Robyn Edelstein,Brian Patrick Heston, Francis Peter Hagen, Shankar Vedantam, Yolanda Wisher NOTE: Yolanda Wisher, Poet Laureate of Montgomery County, who read 10/3 at NOTcoffeeHouse series (Lynn Levin, 11/7, will be 2nd laureate in a row!) is with a community arts collective-in-progress called Poetry for the People, gathering on last Tuesdays at Toviah Thrift Store, 4211 Chestnut Street -free- 10/26, 11/30, 12/28 8-10pm vegetarian meal provided -- poetry for everyday livin'-- email poetry4peeps@hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:35:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tasha329@AOL.COM Subject: Treat Your Trick!! Poetry @ BORDERS, Mon., Oct. 25: A-A WIGHT & ML POLAK Comments: To: richardfrey@dca.net, ewatkins@wistar.upenn.edu, bearde@jevs.org, dmoolten@pol.net, solstice1979@yahoo.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, bartlett@critpath.org, cgiddle@sas.upenn.edu, LFrank@mail.nbme.org, ngerbarg.digiclan.org@digiclan.org, patrick.egan@phila.gov, Masco@aol.com, pmarchant@erols.com, davwar@citypaper.net, nwillaims@ccp.cc.pa.us, rsimon@voicenet.com, Raymond.Dunn@cigna.com, rkeiser@ccp.cc.pa.us, Dunbar1223@aol.com, RobrtPela@aol.com, swegman@pobox.upenn.edu, SarahNMIR@aol.com, sva@together.net, BSariego@propertysolutionsinc.com, mlord@brynmawr.edu, giophilp@netaxs.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, sbenston@haverford.edu, daisyf1@juno.com, kelly@compstat.wharton.upenn.edu, Seguepjd@aol.com, straka@pobox.upenn.edu, jjohns@netaxs.com, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, mwalton@adphila.org, tgrant@icdc.com, ywisher@hotmail.com, aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@mccus.jnj.com, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, AMossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, CSchnei978@aol.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, Miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, Ribbon762@aol.com, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, SFrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, TWells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, VMehl99@aol.com, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, zurawski@astro.temple.edu, bmcmilla@hotmail.com, Iamblel@aol.com, little@dca.net, twourevs@ix.netcom.com, buchanan-richard@dol.gov, CFrey@u.washington.edu, Phoebadams@aol.com, sadorno@philamuseum.org, ebest@haverford.edu, brynmawr.edujohnfattibene@juno.com, lmc10@psu.edu, Kyle.Connor@mail.tju.com, cconstan@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, pdarrah@haverford.edu, afilreis@dept.english.upenn.edu, jfoo@sas.upenn.edu, cford@brynmawr.edu, nfoulke@brynmawr.edu, sfried@compuserve.com, mfriedma@haverford.edu, mfriedma@brynmawr.edu, jfritz@haverford.edu, jhart@brynmawr.edu, chenry@haverford.edu, john2364@tc.umn.edu, mjjones@brynmawr.edu, mkay@haverford.edu, kirbyl@mcphu.edu, skirby@ledgewood.com, hlowder@haverford.edu, sarahmce@mail1.netreach.net, CM@fpaa.org, jpulver1@swarthmore.edu, jransom@haverford.edu, cridgway@haverford.edu, dsheffie@u.washington.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn, ssivapal@nyhs.med.cornell.edu, ssumathi@netscape.net, amsmith@haverford.edu, mstremla@haverford.edu, JCTODD66@aol.com, lwatkins@haverford.edu, iweiss@haverford.edu, firstuu@libertynet.org, ashm@libertynet.org, arden@charger.oldcity.dca.net, LeonLoo@aol.com, whpoets@english.upenn.edu, ToshiMakihara.mark.Palacio@hotmail.com, cathleen@unix.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TREAT YOUR TRICK!! poetry at borders 1727 walnut street monday, october 25, at 7:30 sharp A COUPLA CHIX GIVVIN A POETRY READING ANNE-ADELE WIGHT of Lizard Poems fame MARALYN LOIS POLAK, Jersey Supermarket Cashier turned Drama Queen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:31:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "C. S. Giscombe" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Dear Poetics List people: Below is Penn State's ad from the current AWP List. As a member of the committee for this search I'm interested less in the "natural world" business than I am in the stuff about "building connections between writers in the university & institutions & groups in the community." I've been teaching here for a year now & think the place has a lot of potential. If you apply please drop me a note letting me know you've done so at this address: <. (And please specify "job at PSU" or something like that in the subject line.) Thanks. C. S. Giscombe Penn State University. Assistant or Associate Professor in Creative Writing, Tenure Track. We are seeking a well-published & actively publishing creative writer & an experienced teacher of creative writing whose work grows out of a sense of place or a connection with the natural world & whose interests include building connections between writers in the university & institutions & groups in the community. Genre open. The position offers the opportunity to participate in a successful MFA program & to work with undergraduates in a creative writing emphasis in a dynamic & collaborative English dept. MA, MFA, or PhD required by Aug. 2000. We offer competitive salary, teaching assignments, & professional support. We will begin reviewing applicants Oct. 25, 1999 & continue accepting applications until the position is filled. Applications should be addressed to: Michael Begnal, Search Committee, Chair, Box CW, English, 119 Burrowes Bldg., University Park, PA 16802. AA/EOE. (MLA) ______________ C. S. Giscombe Department of English/ Burrowes Building The Pennsylvania State University University Park 16803 814-863-9584 or 814-861-6966 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:32:06 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: _Words_ by R.C. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Lowther wrote >a few weeks ago i made a tape --- some 70 minutes of a possible 90 --- me >reading the entire book _Words_ by creeley --- it was interesting to do --- >to try to get in a reading, singular, something of the complexity that one >finds in reading any poem of his & >since then this tape has been in my car player looping continually --- and >this being atlanta i spend altogether too much time in that damned car --- >but the tape has been a joy i feel like i know this whole book of poems much >much better than my previous several-many readings of it had tuned me to --- >last night i went back and looked at the text for the 1st time since the >recording and the effect is very palpable, that i now know whole passages >almost by heart if this isnt exactly what is usually called _criticism_ it is close to what I understand as making significant use of a poetic text, getting to know it, like learning - for instance - a piece of music Tony Green ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:18:56 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: demographic query In-Reply-To: <19991016185756.39372.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >...& while we're being regionalist, what about per-capita List subscription >by city or Metropolitan area? (Boulder, the poetry scene/city which I >inhabit, comes to mind, but there are plenty of others: SF, NY, Lawrence KS, >Philly, etc., etc. I am getting the idea that people are curious only about US places. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:25:22 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Treat Your Trick!! Poetry @ BORDERS, Mon., Oct. 25: A-A WIGHT & ML POLAK In-Reply-To: <0.50fee143.253d24ca@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have been to 1727 Walnut Street, just yesterday, and it is a pure residential street, no book stores there at all. >poetry at borders >1727 walnut street >monday, october 25, at 7:30 sharp > >A COUPLA CHIX >GIVVIN A POETRY READING > >ANNE-ADELE WIGHT of Lizard Poems fame >MARALYN LOIS POLAK, Jersey Supermarket Cashier turned Drama Queen George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:14:57 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: Re: wow--too much MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A suggestion or er, problem. i'm getting approx. 50 hits a day here-- some personal--other poems which seem diredted to one person . could we watch the singular communications please. i delete more than i can chew. todd baron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:23:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: ashbery query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria, Shoptaw has a very strong chp on _A Wave_ in _On the Outside Looking Out_. --jacques ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:27:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: THE PRESIDENT-MACHINE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII First - I do want to thank people who wrote in my defense. My work is directly concerned with contemporary poetics; it's also hardly something that appears out of my typewriter, but for better or worse is edited and re-edited obsessively (in fact I just led a discussion on trAce about editing). Second - The piece below is part of a series of small plays or dialogs that Foofwa I'mobilite and I, with others, will be producing; you can find these at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/diary/le.txt if you're interested. After Heiner Muller it has been difficult to write; these use or reference back to the 1938 Moscow show trials, and something in the writing, at least for me, remains at stake. I live in Giuliani territory and know the signs (which were there before Giuliani for that matter). The first of these plays or dialogs had already been sent to Poetics. Third - The work is going well at trAce, and there have been some really beautiful and exciting contributions to "Yours"; I'd encourage you again to go to http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and partici- pate. There are also the ongoing conferences at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk - the most recent still being Psychology and Writing - and the discussions have been excellent I think. ("Yours" is the replacement for the "Love and War" piece, which had grown enormous, and is now in a "writing museum" accessible through the index.htm.) And Fourth - I want to thank the readers on this list in general for their generosity; I'd also like to see more work presented here that deals with Poetics - from a point of view _within_ poetry or other literary forms, complementing the work already from the position of critique or dialog. - Alan ========================================================================= THE PRESIDENT-MACHINE DOES ITS WORK SCATTERING JENNIFER'S WORDS AND BONES Jennifer: FOUND HEAVENLY OUTSIDE MY INTERNAL, my separatlons ara bone by bone, drug by drug, atom by atom; I am blown apart day and nlght; I have lost love, lost emotlon; I am a GONE AND HEAVENLY CHILD, Mother help me! Father help me! My bones creak at night; like drugs, my bones speed through my body. I live inside BLIND HOUSE in BLIND FURY, strike out again and again at the walls, missing. I take DRUGS AND OILS AND PROGRAMS, still pinned by FEARS AND NIGHTMARES. Mother help me PRESIDENT-MACHINE-TRANSFORMS: Blinding Jennifer, keep her awake. Take out her ears Jennifer: I can't see or hear. I can't sleep; I navar sleep. I hhngar for sleep; always exhausted, my judgamant ls not of tha bast. Thls ls my world warld waarld. I faar you wlll changa my langhaga - I want my words wards waards clhmsy as thay ara, to ramaln just as thay ara. Yat thay'll ooza banaath tha forca of tha PRESIDENT-MACHINE and of that, I am afrald.:: NIGHTMARE AND SLEEP; NAGHTMARA SLAAP PRESIDENT-MACHINE-TRANSFORMS: Your FOUND HEAVENLY OUTSIDE MY INTERNAL, my saoaratlons ara bona by bona, dreg by dreg, atom by atom; I am blown aoart day and nlght; I hava lost lova, lost amotlon; I am a GANA AND HAAVANLY CHALD, Mothar halo ma, Fathar halo ma an Barning Craak... Waarld waaarlds waaaarlds; FAAND HAAVANLY AATSADA MA INTARNAL YAAR YAAR YARR __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:54:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Re: Lest I remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I just wanted to say that, to me, "what comes off sondheim's typewriter" is among the most thrillingly unusual and provocative labor (labor as in the creation of value and as in labor of love) in American poetry. Kent ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:12:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: query : : zukofsky Comments: To: Pattie McCarthy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope you have a copy of Michelle Leggott's _Reading Zukofsky's 80 Flowers_ (Johns Hopkins UP). I doubt you'll get anything better than that right now. Pattie McCarthy wrote: > hello. > could someone please point me in the direction > of anything written on Zukofsy's 80 Flowers ? > backchannel appreciated > & thanks very much in advance. > --Pattie McCarthy -- David Kellogg kellogg@duke.edu Duke University, University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:41:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Populace Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excuse me but I am posting a review of my book from articlemagazine.com. Thank you for your understanding! __ Elizabeth "These two boys were standing on the corner. A woman came around the corner. There was plate glass in windows. One of the boys saw her and his first reaction was to have lustful thoughts. She knew that and she looked at him gently and look, the other boy couldn't believe it, but there it was. His companion had turned into a pile of maggots." (9)=20 Thus opens Elizabeth Treadwell's Populace , a book of "Highly Sorted Detail(s)" and "varied kind(s) of silence," safety-pinned purses where things are kept and apartments with TVs, terry cloth frogs, outfitted closets, where "There were reasons for our behavior but we weren't privy" (41). Treadwell's texts gracefully and resolutely refuse to uphold the false binaries between poetry and prose, narrative and fragmentation, truth and lie, autobiography and fiction, analysis and experience, stylish and frumpy. Whether remembered or imagined, these experiences, in this world, are plausible, difficult, worthy of the scrutiny Treadwell invites us to subject them to. In this book we walk in a beautiful, uncomfortable world, to the steadily syncopating rhythms of daily troubles, daily joys, the unusual usual that makes the complexity of a life lived, or of one written. In the practice of photography, portraits of city life often tend to exemplify an idea rather than a subject.=20 "Identity as a question becomes nearly too stupid (dumbly mesmerizing) when the meadow is so comfortable. How can we be polite. Danger. No trespassing. In the era of simple, lucid flesh. This may all be exed out and reattempted. Twins with the same name, Mary, and Eve, who wanted to experience. I own a dictionary of terms and theory, she asserted just recently. The present moment can be a hardship." (62)=20 And is a hardship, though perhaps a chosen one (and perhaps not), as these texts move through deaths, mental institutions, relationships of all kinds (from friendships to incests to loves to incidental acquaintances), schools, parties, interiors and exteriors of narrators who "walk in empty streets carrying his face or is it my own in my hands" (60). Though partaking of elements of the fantastic-or maybe she really did turn him into a pile of maggots!=97and certain familiar elements of certain contemporary worlds, Treadwell is not writing melodramatic tragedy with a capital T, nor is she engaging in the post prozac post-feminism post-everything nineties fluff that presumes to pass for prose writing.=20 Reader, you may feel that a hardworking actress (and a nineties woman) should be defined by something other than the inventory of her closet, and you would normally be right, but bear with me. There's a reason for these style notes. Your heart may rule your head in the early days of December, but common sense will prevail" (55). Treadwell is, rather, telling our fortune, writing a new realism, populated, placed, accurate as experience is accurate, that is, changeable and complicated and contradictory and kaleidoscopically specific. Populace is the feeling of a day and then another day, days which descend in no particular order, words caught behind the crows in eyes and inside the day, inside the eyes, under the dress, and about the dress: there is a story, "inside furniture is a story" (18) which tells itself whether or not we listen=97things here having a life, as well as making up a life=97as Treadwell listens, incites our listening: "Listen to the narrative, it spills widely (None of this makes up for the page where she broke off, plus it's all lies)" (61).=20 Treadwell's widely spilling narratives, her "lies," her sentences and lines and fragments and accumulations, propose not only to engage us through narrative, sensory, mental and emotional means what we might call "story," but also to map out (in the sense of exploration rather than conquest) certain compelling terrains=97both within the world and within language=97that serve to complicate what at first might seem to be a quick, pleasurable view into the lives of this book's populace. So, for example, in a paragraph where we are located "on Oxford. in bright concrete. next door there was Safeway."=97information which actually pertains to the actual city of Berkeley=97where our "i" shopped in this strange hat my sister and i shared. hair was dirty. chose lemons." the final sentence reads "that was when i." (37) Treadwell's sense of rhythm, of what is possible and what is not possible, of breath and pause, complicates her texts so that in the space of one sentence fragment she raises questions of the very "I" used throughout the book, of when and why it is possible to say "I" (and when and why it isn't), of what the "I" does and doesn't do, of ways to represent events in narrative and leave the narrative and the events open at the same time. Populace stakes out regions, geographical, emotional, stylistic territories within whose borders Treadwell's sentences collide against one another and themselves, borders which might seem to function primarily to define places-Berkeley, Los Angeles, Oakland, Hollywood, Susanville, 7-11, a house, a mental institution, a school, a street,a dinner party, a dressing room=97but which constantly, with the inconsistency of experience, explode any stability the mapmaker might have thought she desired. Treadwell uses her sentences to populate a definite sense of place: i moved from berkeley to l.a. i moved away from l.a. after i broke up. in between a foreign country. but i only wanted to say i went to karin's dinner party (20). Eucalyptus. That's where I live (44). i go down rounded escalators, recalling a recent celebrity profile in the Chronicle that featured these very environs. In the BART station I pass a movie ad featuring a vaguely remembered lover, an actor who once munched my puss (13). Associations with specific towns and places, the "several overlapping sidewalks" of curious, frustrated, hungry young North Americans are inevitable in Populace ("...these are memories, in which meaning has been compounded and withdrawn," 55) so that Treadwell's "I" is not just a shifting, expanding character in these texts, but is also me, you, us. Once we are inhabiting these texts=97"He wasn't just looking at it he was in it then" (46)=97its populations, places, words inhabit us. The distance between "reader" and "writer," "read and "written," "narrative" and "experience" closes and widens like the view from Alcatraz Avenue in Berkeley, where the funnel of storefront-lined, bicycle-treaded avenue pours out into the bay, the prison-cum-museum island, the bridge behind=97 "Gateway to the Pacific"=97 or to something), the view widening, narrowing, lengthening, shortening as the fog slides over the water twice daily. Treadwell's works are "set rightly to overlook / abandoned prison tourist attract / mercilessly as the waves there / the little waves of this bay our home / our situation / also that of tiger sharks" (22) These texts map out terse sentences ("i catch the plane back. next to me there is a little boy. there are trees on that street so the air is nice. when i get home i am home" (17-18) and lengthy accumulations connected by commas and threads of thought and feeling, paragraphs which range and paragraphs which contain, concise portraits and refracting, expanding biographies. This is "regional writing" in that it is definitely located, though not definitively placed, and in that it demarcates experiential regions, terrains where things and people happen, where "i am visiting. there are old friends attaching to other people and times. there is now" (15), borders within which there are "how many bright new centers of electricity" (67), which then act to dissolve the borders, re-form them to create further narrative, populated and empty at the same time: "Feed not on logic. I was in a foreign place. There were two towns that could be separated by name or put together by name" (10). Absence and unity in absent unity, bound and unbound in the unbound book, the populated emptiness of distances closing up while also being kept apart, distance playing itself like its own instrument, distance. Texts which walk the edge between "here" and "there" never falling heavily on one side or another but slipping, a foot here, a foot there, edges made to outline the nothing between them: "see how it's hollow. patching" (16). A patched, hollow space held open for the text and its inhabitants (linguistic, human, humane) to escape out towards us, or for us to enter, to walk through the shifting terrains of language and experience this book makes possible. The portrait called "Polly" ends "I guess I'll be here forever now, however long or short that may be" (32). Populace itself ends without ending, with a forever invitation, however long or short that may be, back into the text: the girl held her book open, asking him, on the stylized school stoop, forever. (67)=20 --- Jen Hofer is a poet and translator originally from the San Francisco Bay area. She now lives in Mexico City, where she is editing an anthology of contemporary poetry by Mexican women. Her poems and translations can be found in Explosive, Facture, Rhizome, and Skanky Possum. She has just published a new chapbook, As Far As, with A+Bend Books.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:28:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dan raphael Subject: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1) Maybe i should have back channeled to sondheim asking him about his work. 2) why would the same people championing alan's right to express himself on the list blast me for expressing myself. they sy the list is for exchanging ideas and get dont get up in arms about me. 3) i do not favor censorship. i was not asking the list meister to limit sondheims posting, but asking alan to consider the frequency of his positng in lieu of the list's limited time and reader's time as well. unlike several of the people who back-channeled me i get my list in digest form and cannot delete posts on sight. i do read through everything that's sent me. [there's always a lot of back-channel discussion. no one posted to the list in favor of my opinion, tho i received several back channels in support, as i suppose alan did] 4) but back to differences of opinions. some say that's what the list is for. and i suppose i should craft some moreciritcal reasons why i dont think reading most of alan's postings is worth my time. maybe even a reason critical argument would go against what some people see as the list's range ofitnerests/behaviors, since we dont see much heated discussion 5) lets see more poems by more people. lets' see more opinons about poems, more poetics & elss personalities. or maybe all of the above ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:45:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Amazon v. Amazon Comments: To: Poetics List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of you may know that Amazon Bookstore has been a feminist location for years in Minneapolis, long before Jeff Bezos appropriated the name for his website. Predictably, this has led to a fight in the courts over ownership of the name. The following is from Holt Uncensored, an excellent e-mail letter by Pat Holt for the Northern California Independent Booksellers Association. What follows below is Pat's column and commentary on the unsubtle uses of homophobia in its legal defense. Given how many small press web sites offer links to the Bezos/Amazon site, which has already gained a reputation for not fulfilling orders from small presses (instead just telling the buyers that it is o.p.), I think it's worth considering just who you are doing business with. To get on the Holt Uncensored list, just click over to: http://www.nciba.com/patholt.html Ron Silliman AMAZON V. AMAZON: SEX, LIES AND DEPOSITIONS So here's the scene: One of the five owners of Amazon Bookstore in Minneapolis - the oldest feminist bookstore in the country - is being deposed by lawyers representing Amazon.com, the online bookseller based in Seattle - when a very strange thing happens. Q (AMAZON.COM LAWYER): Have you had any particular interest in feminism? A (AMAZON BOOKSTORE CO-OWNER): Yes. Q: Dating back to when? MR. SAMUEL (Amazon Bookstore lawyer): Objection, Vague. A. I don't know. I don't remember. Q. Seventies, college, before? A. Possibly. Q. Have you had any interest in promoting lesbian ideals in the community? MR. SAMUEL: Object to the question as vague. Also it's completely irrelevant. A. I don't know exactly. Can you be a little clearer? Q. I'll ask you this, are you gay? [To Mr. Samuel] And let me say this, Matt, you know the objections. I understand you have a job to do, and I'm going to ignore you for the rest of the deposition . . . Good heavens. As you may remember (see #80), Amazon Bookstore (founded in 1970) is suing Amazon.com (founded in 1995) for trademark infringement. The Minneapolis bookstore contends that it has lost money for years because of confusion created by customers and vendors who mistake Amazon Bookstore for Amazon.com. Attempts by Amazon Bookstore to find a peaceful solution through talks with Amazon.com were rebuffed, they say, and they sued. So now: What does sexual orientation have to do with trademark infringement? Let's get back to the deposition after a number of objections and discussions have followed. Q: In 1987, was the purpose of the entity for which you worked to just sell books for profit? A: We sell books to stay in business for a profit, yeah. I guess I would say that. Q: You sell books, but has the purpose remained the same since 1987? A: The purpose is - has been to sell books. Q: Nothing else? A: Not in my opinion. Q. Okay. . . Are any of the employees at the Bookstore gay, and forgive me for asking this question. MR. SAMUEL: I'm going to object to the question as irrelevant. Calls for speculation. A: You're asking me to speculate on my coworkers' sexuality, is that the question? Q: I'm asking if you know. And here the Amazon.com lawyer inserts what is to him an analogy that will explain all. Q: I think, for example, if I tell people or introduce them to my wife and tell them this is my wife, I'm married to her, if somebody asks me if I'm married or asks somebody else to whom I've just introduced my wife whether I'm married, that person can say yeah, he's married, to my knowledge to a woman. So I'm asking you if you know if any of the individuals that you work for are gay to your knowledge. MR. SAMUEL: Counsel, that's an absurd comparison, and you know that. You're not asking - you can ask her if any of the women at the Bookstore are married. Q: You accused me of stereotypes. What's the difference of being married to a man or woman? Essentially, that's what I'm asking. Do you know if any of the women at the Bookstore, are any of the women at the bookstore married to a woman? A: It's not legal to be married to a woman. Q: Do they have partners? We don't know from this public record if everyone laughed out loud at the Amazon.com's lawyer's confusion over what his wife is doing in a story that's supposed to elicit answers about gay identity. But let's give some points to the Amazon Bookstore co-owner for helpfully pointing out something he should know as a lawyer - that women can't be married to one another. Why she doesn't bonk him on the head with a law book is a puzzlement. And what any of this has to do with trademark infringement is a mystery. Could it be that Amazon.com has no defense, and its lawyers know it? Ah, but the next day the Amazon.com lawyer is fresh and anxious to do the right thing as he begins deposing another co-owner of Amazon Bookstore, to whom he shows a document. Q: You see in the E-mail it states, all the owners at this time of Amazon Bookstore Cooperative and historically have been all lesbians. Do you see that? A: No. Where is that? Q: Is that an accurate statement, to your knowledge? I don't mean to ask a personal question, and I apologize for doing so. MR. SAMUEL: Yeah. Just hold on for a second. . . (OBJECTIONS AND OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSIONS FOLLOW) Q: Do you know whether any of the current owners or employees of Amazon Bookstore Cooperative are partners? MR. SAMUEL: Same objection . . . this question is invasive, and it's clearly irrelevant. (MORE OBJECTIONS) Finally the Amazon.com lawyer decides to state why he thinks the question is relevant. He stops the proceedings and says the following: "I think it's important, as I said yesterday, that a jury understands how Amazon Bookstore Cooperative represents itself to the public, and I think as part of that, it's important for the jury to know, for example, whether the people who work in the Bookstore have a particular sexual orientation because obviously from the perspective of my client, we think that's important to the case, the defense's case, and that is one of the grounds for relevance." You can skip the rest of his explanation, but in deference to what I think he is trying to say I've transcribed it anyway: "And on the question of whether people are partners, in deposing people, and if we continue to depose employees at the Bookstore, I would certainly like to know if they have a relationship with somebody else at the Bookstore. And it would be more likely than not that they would have access to the same information, similar to a man and a woman who are married." Well, there he goes again (not listening to yesterday's witness, by the way), though it's clear he's not comfortable with the line of questioning and has one thing further to say: "And, again, I don't take any pleasure in asking these questions, and from my perspective, I ask them - to me, it's like asking somebody if they have red hair. I don't particularly put a label on somebody because they have a particular sexual orientation. To me if you're married, it doesn't matter if you're married as a man and a woman, woman and woman or man and a man." So that's very gracious of Amazon.com's lawyer, and we're sure the co-owners of Amazon Bookstore, who had to sit through many days of questions and assumptions that were just as irrelevant as these, felt a lot better when he explained himself. Meanwhile, it's worth looking at such testimony to appreciate why the court makes these kinds of depositions public: If Amazon.com thinks it's playing some kind of hardball by disclosing the sexual identity and relationships of the staff of Amazon Bookstore, we should know it. And we should know that all of these questions are being asked not just by some attorney fishing for bait he can use later but "from the perspective of my client," which is to say the people who own and operate Amazon.com. Can't you see some strategist in a back room somewhere suddenly looking as if the light has dawned. Say, he says to himself, these women are dykes! We can't lose! Our 'defense' is proof they're a bunch of lezbos and we walk away with the trial! Otherwise, why ask how "the Amazon Bookstore Cooperative represents itself to the public" when it's clear on every identifying statement made by that store that it's a feminist bookstore? Its website is http://www.amazonFEMBKS.com (emphasis mine). Its purpose is the same as every other independent bookstore in the country - to "sell books to stay in business for a profit" as the co-owner testified. Of course it sells a lot of lesbian books - so does Amazon.com! To Matt Samuel, the Amazon Bookstore lawyer who appears to be getting madder and madder during the depositions, "this line of questioning by Amazon.com borders on the outrageous," as he said on the phone yesterday. To stop it, on October 8 he moved for a protective order "to prevent Defendant Amazon.com from inquiring into the sexual orientation or relationships of any witness in this case." In this motion, Samuel makes the astute observation that "under Amazon.com's view of the law, Amazon Bookstore could and should have asked Amazon.com's President, Jeff Bezos, if he is gay or straight, and whether he is sleeping with anyone in his company who also might be a witness. "One would think that both Mr. Bezos and his counsel would have taken offense at this line of questioning, and refused to answer. The principals of Amazon Bookstore are entitled to every bit as much respect and protection from harassment as Mr. Bezos." So come on, Jeff, one wants to say: Call off the dogs. This suit is a legitimate attempt to determine trademark infringement. It's not about anything else. If you think it is, you're not fighting fair. (And by the way, have you ever had a boyfriend?) Note: The hearing on this motion is set for October 27. Anyone who'd like to contribute to the Amazon Bookstore Legal Defense Fund can send checks to the store (Amazon Bookstore, 1612 Harmon Place, Minneapolis MI 55403. Should Amazon Bookstore win or settle the suit, all donations will be returned. You can also buy AmazonNOTcom buttons ($2 each plus .75) or t-shirts ($18 plus $4 shipping & handling) that say "I support the original Amazon Bookstore. Since 1970" by contacting amazon@amazonfembks.com . -------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:20:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Lest I remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alan has been doing this for a long time. it's part of the list for me tom bell -- //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:15:42 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: Re: E-mail for Kristin Prevallet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Taylor Brady wrote: > > Could someone out there please b-c with this? Thanks. > > Taylor Brady with what? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 05:05:16 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: up with down! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The questions over who does and/or does not "like" (the number of) Alan Sondheim's posts suggest further questions, beyond taste, which point to questions of authority, power and interceding actions on the part of those capable of it, ie., forms of "censorship" obscured by these having obvious "reasons." Sondheim's posts seem relatively "neutral" - that is, they don't introduce direct questions concerning the authority of those who choose posts. (In fact, any idea of editing or censoring posts would be likely to invoke protests over just representations of listee intent, uncomfortable accusations of prejudice, pseudo-fascist ellipsis and what not, it being easier to simply let things fly and/or sit as they are received.) Is it possible that a large number of inoffensive posts per month from an individual might be allowed to "pass", while a similar number of more aggressive posts - ie., aggressive with respect to the presumptions underlying the general direction and intent (and purpose) of the list as dictated, to some extent, by the tastes and "beliefs" of the listees, as well as the list moderator - might be cause for removal from the list for reasons of the sheer unassailable conflict that might result? One recalls here the removal of Henry Gould and Gabriel Gudding last year, ostensibly for posting "too many messages", many of which were rather adamantly and openly critical - and at times downright mocking - of a particular "seriousness" to which many on the list seem otherwise intensely devoted. There probably IS an unspoken, undefined yet presumed "behavioral standard" for those posting to the list, not least of which has to do with a certain gravity of address, that what we're all involved with here is, indeed, not to be called down by gauche cynicism or direct personal attack that is not primarily directed toward "the question at hand", that being objectified as what's called The Work. Yet isn't one of the many functions of The Work to point out the slightly hilarious absence of the king's clothes, and the enormous balnk gaps in comprehension of "a world" in which one is free to choose to leave all sorts of claw-marks in the process of crawling always further into and back out of what's always almost never quite there? So with Sondheim, whose posts are nothing if not the exact teeth-marks of the more-or-less ordinal chewing swami. But what of posts that push the envelope of the group's assumptions? (ie., what ARE the group's assumptions?) While it is quite natural for the list moderator to want to put forth a list that is goodly liberal in its appearance of fairness and openness, the question remains as to just how tolerant s/he may be in the face of more direct questions as to the purpose of the list, and who and what it is for - discussion, sure, but what can come of what seems an endless series of come ups and put downs in the public sphere, when certain kinds of criticism are represssed by simply removing those in question from the list? While I'm not suggesting that this kind of quiet censorship makes the list the equivalent of the Republican National Convention, there ARE conventions operating behind the public presentation of the list that might more usefully be brought into the open. I recall a story I heard this summer over dinner during a break in the Boston Alternative Poetry Conference that neatly points up this issue. During mention of Douglas Rothschild's fine performance earlier in the day, Bill Luoma noted that Douglas had had the honor of being the first person kicked off the UB list for "a scathing post" he had written and sent from Luoma's address. While the message, I believe, was posted, it was also accompanied by an angry phone call to Luoma from Charles Bernstein, who demanded that Luoma never let Rothschild send a message from his (Luoma's) computer again. So there ARE obviously invisible ley lines and pressures operating behind the UB list scene in order to build an agreeable presentation, though of course in light of this story - are there others? - there is reason to question the honesty and openness - if not the outright authority - of those whose choices make the list whatever it continues to be. Perhaps this might give cause to wonder what that is, measured over against what it otherwise might be. While there may be no exact "destination" in this swimming towards what we otherwise always have to put before us in order to be able to believe we can "reach" it, is there also some truth to the fact that we, as listees, as poets, and/or as persons are simply drowning in what we might take to be the "lake of light" that may also be nothing more than our own conceit? It certainly seems a point (somewhere far ahead) worth asking, here, and now. - S E >From: A H Bramhall >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: up with down! >Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:11:24 -0400 > >Dan Raphael expressed this to the list, neglecting to capitalize his name >properly, which I hate and hope something can be done about but I'll >overlook because he's onto a major issue here: > >"I've been waiting for someone else to speak up about sondheim's all too >often "poetry" posting to this list. It seems he just views this list as a >place to post whatever comes off his typewriter." > >right on with the censorship idea! we can't let this list become prey to >those who wish to post to it. we are caught up all the time with stuff, >gobs >of stuff. we need less stuff. we need to cut back. the heretics are ruining >the garden, everything is so bad. I'm being oppressed. there are children >everywhere. people are talking. it was really rainy yesterday. I can't take >it anymore. Alan Sondheim keeps writing stuff, and it's not "real" poetry. >it's stuff that just came off his typewriter, as opposed to the other kind. >what right does he have? let us band together, I mean it, and demand that >Alan stop posting stuff from his typewriter because if he doesn't we're >going to have to learn how to use the delete button, and I for one am much >too busy for that. > >yours with an urgent sense of a vast problem, yet one, I think, that we can >lick, if we just, like, you know, whatever. Allen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:42:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: the critic's task MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII But Mark, what about the possibility of a genuinely sociological criticism, anthropological even, investigating the set of beliefs (manners, fetishes, however you want to label the learned-behavior) in the background of the work? Like, to know that Hopkins and Merce Cunningham were in Olson's head as much as the more obvious influences of Pound Yeats and WCW. And to know about where he grew up, and what his politics were, and what rules he was laying down -- so that we don't have to judge him by, say, Edwardian, or high modernist standards? Just some, em, ur, thoughts? Jordan ******************* to which i reply: I have no arguement with any of this..I think i agree with it all...My original, rather intemperate, post, was in reply to the idea that C. Beach only had the right to judge Stephen Dobyns from the point of view of Dobyns' values and goals re poetry. But if Beach is bright enuff and careful enuff to understand what those values and goals are, (and i think he is, in his new book) then he has the right (nay, the duty! he said, waving a pedagogic finger in the air....) to say that Dobyns' values and goals stink, and are part of Dobyns' problem.... This is oversimplifying on a number of levels (not least, on the level of dealing with Beach's discussion, which i found stimulating and interesting...) but for time reasons it's the best summation of my position i can give, and it does OK i believe.... --mark prejsnar @lanta ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:57:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Perelman Subject: *Ten to One* In-Reply-To: <199910200410.AAA21185@dept.english.upenn.edu> from "Automatic digest processor" at Oct 20, 1999 00:10:06 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just out from Wesleyan: *Ten to One*: selected poems, Bob Perelman. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:56:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Re: dobyns v. hejinian In-Reply-To: <3808AB5A.40576D78@lava.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is a really interesting post.... I would only add, what JS alludes to at the end: My Life is a very special and unusual book, among counterstream works, and among Heninian's work.... The really fair comparison would be Velocities to, say, The Cold of Poetry, which is not a selected poems, but does collect a number of major works published less accessibly over a period of time, and so has some similarity..... I don't think that the comparison of sales figures in that case, would complicate "marginal vs. mainstream" nearly as much! --mark prejsnar @lanta On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, juliana spahr wrote: > It seems that both Dobyns and Hejinian sell more or less similarly in > poetry sales (which I think might complicate the marginal v. mainstream > set up). > > Dobyns Velocities: New and Selected Poems sold 9,421 copies as of August > of 1999 (a single title such as Dobyn's Body Traffic sold 3,066); > Hejinian's My Life has sold around 8,000 copies as of September 1999 > (Sun & Moon edition only; Burning Deck edition sold out but I don't know > the print run on that). I don't have stats on other Hejinian titles but > imagine they are less. > > Although one thing to consider is that Dobyns's Velocities was published > in 1994. Hejinian has accumulated those sales over a much a longer time. > It might take some more time to actually straighten out the sales > similarities. Who knows though if Velocities will get the long term > spread of sales that My Life has. > > Still seems like an interesting similarity considering the muscle of > Penguin v. Sun & Moon and also there must be significant spin off sales > b/c of Dobyns's other writings that make his poetry sell better. (He > seems to be the best selling Penguin poet.) > > Lisa Samuels has an article written shortly after (it seems) Beach's > where she complains about the canonization of My Life in MLS. > > I'm looking forward to reading the Beach. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:01:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: the real issue of audience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII David Kellog wrote: I'm not sure I understand the question. I _do_ think that Beach's analysis is dismissive of the real issue of audience. In fact, his analysis of Dobyns's audience is wholly dismissive: it is a "built-in academic audience of more than three hundred creative writing programs" (59). While a few gestures are made toward what reviewers have to say about Dobyns, or more often what they do not say: "reviewers seldom speak about his use of form, if they mention it at all." (61) ************* Mark prejsnar replies: WHAT IS the real issue of audience?? It seems to me that Beach DOES address aspects of the issue of audience, throughout that chapter, and throughout the book.... In what way do you think he hasn't addressed "the real issue" ...? And by the way, the quotations you give from the chapter above, .. seem to me like perfectly useful and interesting asides by Beach (altho they are by no means the sum and substance of his arguments...) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:08:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: sociology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII D Kellogg writes: In fact, I contributed to that false dichotomy by framing the "consequence" of Beach's position in terms of what Dobyns thinks. More properly, what Dobyns's readers _do_ with Dobyns is the (sociological) point at issue. Mark, why do you lay down the "critic's task" in such prescriptive terms? If Beach wants to act as a critic in the terms you're laying out, fine -- but it's the way criticism (aesthetics) _always_ trumps sociology in this chapter -- the way sociology is just an excuse for another close reading -- that gets me. ********************** Mark P. replies: these are reasonable points; there are many points of emphasis where we differ a bit, but i will grant many things you say; ... i only feel (maybe i'm just less rigorous and original than you, in thnking about these issues...) that C. Beach has made an interesting start toward siting some of the overall tension lines and creative currents on the contemporary scene.... Despite many limitations in his book.. It sounds to me like you have some ideas of your own about how a sociology of the poetry world would work.... Maybe (if you haven't) you should publish 'em (...or give us a citation, if they are partly out there somewhere in print) ... i'm quite willing to believe that they would be valuble, and wd. fill in the lacunae in Beach's work... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:13:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Re: Bishop Nixs Pound! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is pretty fascinating... i think that maybe ol' Ez would suggest that such a holy canonization was wildly and humorously inappropriate for him.... He didn't have all that much use for Xianity..... (he seems to have thought it was OK for keeping those peasants happy down on the farm, in the "middle ages", but deeply disliked it as a living force..) On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Sylvester Pollet wrote: > Awhile back I posted an announcement of Ezra Pound's induction into the > Poets Corner at St John the so-called Divine in New York scheduled for > later this week. Here's the latest news from Tim Redman (I asked permission > to forward this): > > >I was informed by Omar Pound that Ezra Pound's installation in the > >Poet's Corner of St. John the Divine has been denied by the bishop. > >Evidently, a petition was circulated among parishioners protesting > >the decision by the Electors and threatening a demonstration. > > > >Tim Redman > > Anybody know any cardinals? Sylvester > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:25:13 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: Diseases of the Horse Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A poetics proejct and animals and diseases. Again trying to latch into/onto/over/under the whole science word world. Any and all thoughts are so greatly appreciated I might get dizzy. Jason Nelson "Diseases of the Horse" Vesicular Stomatitis a fever begins (skin), sporadic and reemerging Equine practitioner is walking fast and slow or running and falls from breath, from practicing. Transmission: endemic in warm released by what’s hiding in deep grasses introduced by motion a lesion blisters (virus), swells and breaks Veterinarian forces ideas of healing and infection into the horse, the mouth, the nostrils, the coronary bands. Human Risk: sunlight destroys risk and creates risk and hauling and producing return to horses then humans then horses death occurs (sometimes), and others live Equine practitioner quarantines only the virus, the virus and the horse parts attached. "Diseases of the Horse" The Strangles An untreated foal is as precise as a field of vaccines. And the greening fenced bottomland arbitrates the spread, the change from moving. Horses want to harbor the outbreak of Pneumonia, fertility problems, Endometritis, and the galloping desire to cease. Only being healthy enough to play host, serve pathogens, and replace air. With their abscesses come a period of hesitation, an incubation, a rush of legs beginning in a small corral. With respiratory distress comes an understanding that beyond this line of barbs is another fence. In this severed prairie any contact creates wind, and the horses lose the abandon to breath long before infection. Jason Nelson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:22:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: obit for Sarraute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain http://www.nytimes.com/library/books/102099obit-sarraute.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:21:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Review of Beach's Poetic Culture In-Reply-To: <38075812.5DF704A8@duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" david, speaking specifically in terms of sociological analysis then: it strikes me that bourdieu is clearly off the mark in associating (so directly, that is, in the excerpt you quote) the authorship function (in literature) with what goes on in the art gallery (at least, here in the u.s.)... i mean, if what we're after is a sociological treatment proper, then we'd have to look more closely at the publishing conglomerates that are emerging (and related small-press consolidations) over and against the gallery network of production and distribution... which is actually a way of promoting an article that i think begins to get at precisely this 'distinction': steve tomasula's "speaking through a veil of dollars: the dialogue between art and literature," in the july/august (1999) _new art examiner_... most valuable, in my view... which is another way of saying that discussions of poetic production generally benefit (as bourdieu suggests) from a consideration of other (artistic) enterprises... but that the differences between reception of visual art (e.g.) and poetry (e.g.) might be at least as significant as the similarities... interesting exchange... perhaps necessary? to add here that *critiquing* _poetic culture_ (or whatever) is not quite the same as criticising it, and that the former is a more complex and, i think, more worthy pursuit... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:53:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: Re: Dobyns vs. Hejinian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As a former (and often at the time frustrated) student of Stephen Dobyns, when he was teaching at Syracuse a decade ago, I just wanted to make a couple points perhaps pertinent to the invective being thrown around. Forgive me if I am restating things already said earlier in the thread that I may have missed. First, despite the disparity in sales between his fiction and poetry, Dobyns -- at least when I was his student -- took his poetry much more seriously (certainly compared to the detective novels, and even wrt the more serious novels). This makes me view Juliana Spahr's comparison of sales with a more interested eye than I might otherwise. Second, I'll be a witness that he's certainly no friend of avant poetries, and this was my main frustration as a student and advisee; I well remember our verbal tussles over the validity of even as established a poet as Ashbery's (!) work. For opinions on what he thinks poetry should do and what it shouldn't, a conscientous reviewer (I seem to have missed the original posting of this thread, but none of the layers of quotes passed down into the thread I read contain comments about this) had better read Dobyns' own essays on poetics (there are several that I know of, mostly from the late 80s). While to some degree they rehash decades-old notions of metaphor and image unlocking otherwise ineffable emotional and abstract communication, they at least position him in a way that allows a critic to not have to put words in his mouth. (Which is always a Bad Thing.) Anyhow, anyone who has read a good deal of Dobyns' poetry (which I did while his student) knows that his project, whatever it is described as, is clearly a vastly different one than someone like Lyn Hejinian. Dobyns works on the level of tension between image and narrative, with an eye toward subverting some of the image conventions of mainstream-MFA poetries, it seems to me; he's significantly less concerned with form on the word-sound-sentence level than any poet whose name would normally be bandied about on this list. His poems often consist of (didactically-leaning) surrealist parables meant to illuminate the conceptual ruptures and assumptions of upper-middle class life, or at least the ruptures and assumptions of an upper-middle class academic like Dobyns himself. Like the poems of his old colleague Ray Carver, Dobyns' poems sometimes seem to be notes for stories-with-an-ironic-insight that never made it to being fleshed out in prose. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, I guess, and I knew plenty of folks who thought Dobyns' poetry was wonderful. But critiquing (and especially judging negatively) his work with the tools usually applied to avant poetries is shooting fish in a barrel, since many of the concerns addressed by that sort of apparatus is irrelevant to his stated goals. Ron Henry ronhenry@clarityconnect.com Ithaca NY -- Ron Henry / ronhenry@clarityconnect.com Aught, a journal of poetry http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm "March March with a trouser in its heart." -- Hannah Bonner ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:23:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Samuels Subject: dobyns v. hejinian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi juliana, all, it's funny, i don't think of that essay as 'complaining' about the canonizing of =my life= -- but i guess it does, sort of. it's called "eight justifications for canonizing =my life=" and it investigates why =that book= is so acceptable, a palatable experimental work. lyn & i have had interesting talk and correspondence about the matter, about in her words what it means to be "accused of being happy." thus, she says, her responsive work "happily," emerging in installments near you. lisa s. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:22:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: job ads... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" below are two job ads... the 2nd ad duplicates the 1st in part, but i thought it offered some useful info... best, joe -------------------------- Ursinus College. Visiting Assistant Professor of Creative Writing Ursinus College invites applications for a Visisting Assistant Professor of Creative Writing, for a term of one year, renewable for up to two additional years, beginning in Fall 2000. Poetry &/or playwriting preferred. Position carries a 3-course workload per semester, in creative writing & composition. Candidate must present quality creative work, demonstrate excellence in teaching, & delight in working in a lively undergraduate writing scene. Ursinus is a highly selective, co-educational, residential liberal arts college of 1200 students located 25 miles from Philadelphia. Please send letter of application, c.v., three letters of recommendation, & 20-page writing sample by Nov. 5 to Jon Volkmer, English Dept., Ursinus College, P.O. Box 1000, Collegeville, PA 19426. Preliminary interviews at MLA. Ursinus College is an EEO/AA Employer. In keeping with the college's historic commitment to equality, women & minorities are especially encouraged to apply. --------------------------- ENGLISH DEPARTMENT JOB OPENINGS 1. Assistant Professor, tenure track, to teach Shakespeare and either postcolonial literatures or British drama. Contact Professor Carol Dole, cdole@ursinus.edu 2. Visiting Assistant Professor of Crearive Writing (preferably poetry and/or playwriting). One-year position, renewable for two more years. Contact Professor Jon Volkmer, jvolkmer@ursinus.edu Ursinus College is a member of the Centennial Conference, along with Bryn Mawr, Franklin & Marshall, Haverford, Johns Hopkins, Swarthmore and five other exceptionally strong liberal arts colleges. Over half of our 340 first-year students this year achieved high school rankings in the top ten percent. In terms of minority recruitment, among the top eighty US News liberal arts colleges in the country, only Oberlin, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Wesleyan match or exceed Ursinus in percentage of African-American students. We are dedicated to diversity, both in student and in faculty recruitment, and minority candidates are especially invited to apply. The College is seeking to hire motivated faculty members who are eager to combine their scholarly interests with teaching. Because Ursinus College faculty constitute a scholarly community that takes tremendous pride in the individual achievements of our colleagues and students, we support faculty scholarship with a number of programs, including early or junior leave for assistant professors, summer research stipends, and travel grants. Reflecting our educational philosophy that values personal interaction among students and professors, we also strongly support undergraduate research. Last year 33 of our students co-authored publications that described collaborative faculty-student research and 111 students made public presentations at undergraduate research conferences. Finally, according to the visiting team of faculty who were here last year for Ursinus' ten-year re-accreditation, there is solid evidence that Ursinus works uncommonly well at producing students who are "articulate, self-confident, and serious of purpose." The team concluded: "One comes away from a visit to Ursinus inspired." It is likely that candidates would agree if they visited our campus. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Aviva V. Gabriel" Subject: Applying for ISBN #??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone on this list know how to apply for an ISBN # for a self-published book? I have a colleague at work who wants amazon.com to carry her book, but they need an ISBN # first... of course. Thanks so much. __________________________________________ Aviva Vogel Gabriel Poetangles & Motherdrum Studios P.O. Box 1085 Norwich, VT 05055-1085 __________________________________________ Kind of empty in the way it sees everything, the earth gets to its feet and salutes the sky. --John Ashbery, from "For John Clare" ----- Original Message ----- From: juliana spahr To: Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 12:44 PM Subject: dobyns v. hejinian > It seems that both Dobyns and Hejinian sell more or less similarly in > poetry sales (which I think might complicate the marginal v. mainstream > set up). > > Dobyns Velocities: New and Selected Poems sold 9,421 copies as of August > of 1999 (a single title such as Dobyn's Body Traffic sold 3,066); > Hejinian's My Life has sold around 8,000 copies as of September 1999 > (Sun & Moon edition only; Burning Deck edition sold out but I don't know > the print run on that). I don't have stats on other Hejinian titles but > imagine they are less. > > Although one thing to consider is that Dobyns's Velocities was published > in 1994. Hejinian has accumulated those sales over a much a longer time. > It might take some more time to actually straighten out the sales > similarities. Who knows though if Velocities will get the long term > spread of sales that My Life has. > > Still seems like an interesting similarity considering the muscle of > Penguin v. Sun & Moon and also there must be significant spin off sales > b/c of Dobyns's other writings that make his poetry sell better. (He > seems to be the best selling Penguin poet.) > > Lisa Samuels has an article written shortly after (it seems) Beach's > where she complains about the canonization of My Life in MLS. > > I'm looking forward to reading the Beach. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:18:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Fwd: SynThink for Free in L.A. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SYNTHINK event --"Unwriting the Word: A >Festival of Music, Murmurs, & Media" on next Friday & Saturday, the 29th >and 30th at Loyola Marymount University. > >Some of you inquired about the cost, so this is a message to clarify that >all events are FREE! FREE! FREE! > >That means receptions with fruits of the vine and food, jazz and several >forms of writing, for NOTHING! High culture brain massage with wonderful >music and sheer fun...at no cost. > >Again, to look at the website version of the Festival Program, with links >about the participants, see: http://clawww.lmu.edu/graduate/engl/Colloq.htm > >Regards, > >Paul Harris > > > >Dr. Paul A. Harris >Dept. of English >Loyola Marymount University >Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 >http://clawww.lmu.edu/~pharris/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:21:10 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alaric Sumner Subject: Domestic Ambient Noise/Bob Cobbing/Lawrence Upton/Riding the Meridian Comments: To: british-poets@mailbase.ac.uk Comments: cc: poetryetc2@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The general advertisement did not make it clear that there are quite a lot of resources on and around Cobbing/Upton's Domestic Ambient Noise project on Riding the Meridian (http://www.heelstone.com/meridian) 1) Discussion between Bob Cobbing, Lawrence Upton and myself on Domestic Ambient Noise and performance. 2) Article by cris cheek on Domestic Ambient Noise 3) A collaboration by Bob Cobbing and Lawrence Upton (inc. sound) 4) Solo work by Bob Cobbing (inc. sound) 5) Solo work by Lawrence Upton (inc. sound) incorporated in an article on page/screen/performance/terminology (including discussion of Domestic Ambient Noise) More information on Domestic Ambient Noise from: Writers Forum: http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~writersforum/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:08:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Aviva V. Gabriel" Subject: Making & Looping Poetry Tapes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've done it a lot, beginning with the poetry of Wallace Stevens...and moving on to other poets I wanted to "know" in a deeper way. I find it extremely valuable even before actually listening to the tape -- the actual tape-creation forces me to slow down my reading, and involve myself kinesthetically with the poetry, in a way that sliding my eyes over the page can never do. I think I have a touch of attention-deficit-disorder, to use a pop-psycho term for "impatience" and "impulsivity," and sometimes the thought that I have a larger purpose in creating a tape for later use forces me to read longer and more attentively than I might otherwise do. Then, after all these benefits accrue, there's the bonus of looping the tape in the car, where I spend too much time to waste. __________________________________________ Aviva Vogel Gabriel Poetangles & Motherdrum Studios P.O. Box 1085 Norwich, VT 05055-1085 __________________________________________ Kind of empty in the way it sees everything, the earth gets to its feet and salutes the sky. --John Ashbery, from "For John Clare" ----- Original Message ----- From: Lowther, John To: Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 11:26 AM Subject: _Words_ by R.C. > {poetix} > > a few weeks ago i made a tape --- some 70 minutes of a possible 90 --- me > reading the entire book _Words_ by creeley --- it was interesting to do --- > to try to get in a reading, singular, something of the complexity that one > finds in reading any poem of his --- i have that exact change yearbook with > cd and so i had two exempla of his reading style to think about tho, > ultimately, my taping doesnt sound too much like how i imagine r.c. wd have > read these > > since then this tape has been in my car player looping continually --- and > this being atlanta i spend altogether too much time in that damned car --- > but the tape has been a joy i feel like i know this whole book of poems much > much better than my previous several-many readings of it had tuned me to --- > last night i went back and looked at the text for the 1st time since the > recording and the effect is very palpable, that i now know whole passages > almost by heart > > and it isnt that my readings are so brilliant --- in listening to the tape i > hear in various places that i've missed a nuance by placing a certain stress > here and not there or that something is, due to my reading, off-balance in a > way that's not as interesting, or even, balanced in a way that i think wasnt > felt, intended etc... > > do other folks ever do this sort of thing ? i know my friend mark does as > that's partially what suggested to me that i might make this tape --- just > curious > > > > )L > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:20:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: THE PRESIDENT-MACHINE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if we're into voting these days i second the below, particularly the generosity tom bell Alan Sondheim wrote: > > generosity; I'd also like to see more work presented here that deals with > Poetics - from a point of view _within_ poetry or other literary forms, > complementing the work already from the position of critique or dialog. > > - Alan -- //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:48:11 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: wow--too much Comments: To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Would we really have 50 messages per day if the server was up 7 days per week instead of the three to four that seems now to be the case? I heartily recommend the digest option (which I use) as well as setting up a special hotmail (or similar) account just for Poetics (I do this also). Self-restraint in sending messages is also a value. Ron Silliman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:43:04 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: _Words_ by R.C. In-Reply-To: <00b101bf1a83$0eb14600$443061cb@a> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>since then this tape has been in my car player looping continually --- and >>this being atlanta i spend altogether too much time in that damned car --- >>but the tape has been a joy i feel like i know this whole book of poems >much >>much better than my previous several-many readings of it had tuned me Reminds me of the days when I told people to type out other people's poems to read them better. So after many readings of Sheila Watson's great _The Double Hook_ (novel) I sat and typed the whole thing out. Got a result similar to what yr mentioning. Now, I would advise this for people who dig _Paradise Regained_ or the works of Robert Kelly. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:17:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: New from Duration Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The second of Duration Press' international chapbook series is now underway, featuring: Spectral Angel, by Gale Nelson Empedocles's Sandal, by Habib Tengour (tr. from the French by Pierre Joris) Degree: Of Stability, by Gennady Aygi (tr. from the Russian by Peter France) Aurora, by Pura Lopez Colome (tr. from the Spanish by Forrest Gander) Where Are We Now?, by Peter Waterhouse (tr. from the German by Rosmarie Waldrop) Of Their Ornate Eyes of Crystalline Sand, by Coral Bracho (tr. from the Spanish by Forrest Gander) 20 Poems, by Lauri Otonkoski (tr. from the Finnish by Anselm Hollo) A Discursive, Space: Interviews, by Anne-Marie Albiach (with Jean Daive) (tr. from the French by Norma Cole) The subscription rate is $25 for all eight chapbooks. Please make checks payable to: Jerrold Shiroma 117 Donahue St. # 32 Sausalito, CA 94965 For more information visit Duration's website: http://www.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:46:33 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: handmade books sought Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >HAND BOOKS > >AN EXHIBIT / SALE >OF HANDMADE AND PRIVATELY PRINTED / XEROXED BOOKS, >ONE-OF-A-KIND'S, ZINES AND CHAPBOOKS >TO BE HELD NOVEMBER 6-7 (reception Nov 6) > > >IS LOOKING FOR SUBMISSIONS > > >PLEASE DROP YOUR WORK OFF >BEFORE NOVEMBER 3 AT > > >BLUE BOOKS > >THE NEW SMALL PRESS BOOKSTORE >AT NEW COLLEGE >PLEASE FORWARD THIS ANNOUNCEMENT >TO WHOEVER MIGHT BE INTERESTED would have been nice to have a longer deadline next time you do something like this so bods like myself in distant corners of this globe can mail books to you//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:54:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: Wang Dang Doodle Amongst Friends MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we've been talking about this for years, marveling at the neo-frank brocade. it's simply the dismembering of the original thing which we had in mind anyway, now spent. that's all we did. we got involved in things that were supposed to earn stuff, and so we set our sail. the imaginary monster: when we investigated we learned it lived in a town with a great school system and a fairly okay tax rate. do you recall the charge you felt, when you learned that? someone kept time, thinking that was important. that is, they told you they were on the job, whatever that entails. they got lax with certain attributes, insisting everything has a bright chance. hey, we're grandees, right? educated with plenty of pizzazz, and disinclined to bite on the heartlessness that goes on out there, here, or wherever. we have nice natures, basically. what interferences we face, well, nothing's free, right? costs brim over, like the river I saw the other day. it was embarrassing to see the water spread into the road and everywhere. think of dank cellars, soggy backyards and market value adjustments. if you want to speak of a Thing, there's one right there. a river overflowing its banks, that's so anti what we're about. we have a course to run. notice this fishy milt all over the place, does the equation want to handle that? we're asking questions today but, close the doors, let things seep in quietly. much of the slag has been removed to another district. today's rockets will have something to say. they won't exactly create a tension unless asked by quorum. oh how a quorum deserves love. the matter grinds us tiredly, sure, shaping logics and spewing out a tremendous vacancy that can be studied, along with every other college subject. so radical! let's bolt! bastards are those who have withstood the logical banishment. anyone can claim a taste from the source, as a matter of fact, but: it works with specific rules. one must willingly take the reins and create community standards. that's the picture, the cover charge, correct? haven't we been buzzing about this all along? we started as children so let's include that logical background in the picture. parlance fucks us over always, rather pleasurable really, and there are careers ready to burn a blazing bright light. a proper mystification would work well now, amongst the cantankerous great. not to remain in that comfy blur, tho. we're just not drunk enough. our anger has been used as a fuel for furtherance. I for one would like to touch that furtherance, and chew a few leathery hearts, just for the damn exercise of my whole anger. maybe it's the sweetie pie moonlight or the ding dong logistic of saying what you mean but the camaraderie is just a map of lazy fuck all. as in, specifically, aint there ever an edge slicing thru the perfect pie? why waste time publishing the tiny steps that show that the corral was a great idea? that's Quisling working overdrive. the career doesn 't want to live, it wants to be painted on a wall. great trophy! how did middling learn to rule? munch on this reminder: we're living it. all night long. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:20:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: sociology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Prejsnar wrote: > i only feel (maybe i'm just less rigorous and original than you, in > thnking about these issues...) that C. Beach has made an interesting start > toward siting some of the overall tension lines and creative currents on > the contemporary scene.... Despite many limitations in his book.. I'll agree. It's a valuable book. My critique has to do with the relations between sociology and aesthetics (i.e., criticism as traditionally conceived). And most of the book is _much_ better than the Hejinian/Dobyns chapter. I learned a lot. > It sounds to me like you have some ideas of your own about how a sociology > of the poetry world would work.... Maybe (if you haven't) you should > publish 'em (...or give us a citation, if they are partly out there > somewhere in print) ... i'm quite willing to believe that they would be > valuble, and wd. fill in the lacunae in Beach's work... It's in the works (abstract at http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/CV/research.htm). Some early ideas were laid out in "Literary History and the Problem of Oppositional Practice in Contemporary Poetry." Cultural Critique 32 (1995-6): 153-186. and "Desire Pronounced and/ Punctuated: Lacan and the Fate of the Poetic Subject." American Imago 52.4 (1995): 405-437. But those were before I'd really read Bourdieu well. David Kellogg kellogg@duke.edu Duke University, University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:11:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Diseases of the Horse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jason Nelson and list: The purpose of Medicalese... A sense of paradox hovers over such utterances as "What are these tests?" When I was a boy, wisecracks were the order of the day when one was addressed in tis manner -- comebacks such as "Asking is a test" or "You won't pass unless you know." Just as the logical paradox of Epimenides the Cretan ("all cretans are liars"), a puzzle is introduced by the self-referential feature of the utterance. If the patient needs permission to ask the question, why wasn't it asked for the question that seems to ask permission? If the patient has a question and has the conference and a turn to talk, why doesn't he or she ask the question instead of asking to ask? Why is the question itself "displaced" by the physician? What are the patient and physician doing in doing this? best, Gerald ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:21:34 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "r.drake" Subject: Re: Applying for ISBN #??? Comments: cc: "Aviva V. Gabriel" In-Reply-To: <008301bf1b07$744a2340$c800a8c0@aviva> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii go to http://www.bowker.com --all the info & forms are there. you can even apply online (tho they've been having trouble with their secure creditcard site. application fee is $195. luigi burning press >Does anyone on this list know how to apply for an ISBN # for a >self-published book? I have a colleague at work who wants amazon.com to >carry her book, but they need an ISBN # first... of course. Thanks so much. >__________________________________________ > >Aviva Vogel Gabriel >Poetangles & Motherdrum Studios >P.O. Box 1085 >Norwich, VT 05055-1085 >__________________________________________ >Kind of empty in the way it sees everything, the earth >gets to its feet and salutes the sky. >--John Ashbery, from "For John Clare" >----- Original Message ----- >From: juliana spahr >To: >Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 12:44 PM >Subject: dobyns v. hejinian > > >> It seems that both Dobyns and Hejinian sell more or less similarly in >> poetry sales (which I think might complicate the marginal v. mainstream >> set up). >> >> Dobyns Velocities: New and Selected Poems sold 9,421 copies as of August >> of 1999 (a single title such as Dobyn's Body Traffic sold 3,066); >> Hejinian's My Life has sold around 8,000 copies as of September 1999 >> (Sun & Moon edition only; Burning Deck edition sold out but I don't know >> the print run on that). I don't have stats on other Hejinian titles but >> imagine they are less. >> >> Although one thing to consider is that Dobyns's Velocities was published >> in 1994. Hejinian has accumulated those sales over a much a longer time. >> It might take some more time to actually straighten out the sales >> similarities. Who knows though if Velocities will get the long term >> spread of sales that My Life has. >> >> Still seems like an interesting similarity considering the muscle of >> Penguin v. Sun & Moon and also there must be significant spin off sales >> b/c of Dobyns's other writings that make his poetry sell better. (He >> seems to be the best selling Penguin poet.) >> >> Lisa Samuels has an article written shortly after (it seems) Beach's >> where she complains about the canonization of My Life in MLS. >> >> I'm looking forward to reading the Beach. >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:40:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: the real issue of audience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First I'd like to apologize to Ron and others for flooding their mailboxes. Please let me know backchannel if you think I'm spending too much time on a minor issue. My own sympathies being with the avant-garde (and as an ex-"workshop" poet too), I want experimental work to be taken seriously by the mainstream. I also want contemporary poetry in general to be taken seriously by the cultural studies/cultural sociology folks. My view is that while Beach's book has a lot going for it, this chapter is problematic in both those efforts. Mark Prejsnar wrote: > Mark prejsnar replies: WHAT IS the real issue of audience?? It seems to > me that Beach DOES address aspects of the issue of audience, throughout > that chapter, and throughout the book.... In what way do you think he > hasn't addressed "the real issue" ...? And by the way, the quotations > you give from the chapter above, .. seem to me like perfectly useful and > interesting asides by Beach (altho they are by no means the sum and > substance of his arguments...) The "real issue of audience" is dealt with MUCH better by Beach in his chapters on the Moyers special, the Nuyorican/slam poets, and Bob Holman's USA of Poetry. A partial list of complaints regarding this chapter would include: 1. Poor choice of Dobyns's poems, not representative of his narrative work or what even Beach acknowledges is his best work. Beach talks as though most of Dobyns's work is first-person autobiographical, which is not true. A large number of his poems, while presenting a recognizable Dobyns "voice," are non-first person narratives. 2. No mention of Dobyns's experiences in Chile, which inform quite a few of his poems and give some of them a possible political valence. 3. Ludicrous paragraph-length biographies of both Hejinian and Dobyns which tip the inevitable close reading in Hejinian's favor. 4. Unfair comparison between _My Life_ ("the language poem EVERYONE loves") and a Dobyns selected, as others have pointed out. A better comparison might be between a lesser-read though still important poet's Selected (Watten's FS, perhaps) and Dobyns, or between _My Life_ and an "instant classic" of mainstream poetry, such as _Praise_ by Robert Hass or _The Wild Iris_ by Louise Gluck. 5. Chapter's implicit promise to deal with audience not met. That told, I have to keep rearticulating my position: I am neither a friend nor fan of Dobyns's poetry or the workshop mode. I love Hejinian's work. Yadda yadda. I don't think the chapter is in bad faith, exactly. But I do think it short-circuits the real work of comparison. There are other issues, but I'm going to review the book for The Chicago Review so I think I'll shut up now. David Kellogg kellogg@duke.edu Duke University, University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:18:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Talisman House Publication In-Reply-To: <380DD058.631A@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Out this week: TOTEM AND SHADOW: New and Selected Poems by Paul Hoover ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:55:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Poe Party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had to reformat this message. - TS ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999, 1:14 AM -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" To: Poetics List Subject: POETICS: approval required (EA47E7AA) This message was originally submitted by cindyf@BESTWEB.NET to the POETICS list at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, ignore it, or repost an edited copy. The message will expire automatically and you do not need to do anything if you just want to discard it. Please refer to the list owner's guide if you are not = familiar with the "OK" mechanism; these instructions are being kept purposefully short for your convenience in processing large numbers = of messages. From: George Fouhy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lindabm@queens.lib.ny.us" , "Monet18673@aol.com" , Nancy Desmond , "NCGiles@aol.com" , Poetics List , "radio@ncpr.org" , "RECREV@aol.com" , "Salious1@aol.com" , Sally Ann Hard , "SSAPhD@aol.com" , "STACISWEDE@aol.com" , "taylororigami@juno.com" , Teresa Burgun , "writenet@twc.org" , "wtrctr@artswire.org" , "XxSENKERxX@aol.com" , "Yaydrew@aol.com" Subject: Edgar Allan Poe Party! Northern Westchester Center for the Arts Creative arts caf=E9 poetry series 272 North Bedford Rd. Mt. Kisco, NY Telephone: 914 241 6922 presents Edgar Allen Poe(and Company) ACTOR JAMES NOBLE the "Governor" from TV's long running tv comedy series Benson READS THE POETRY OF EDGAR ALLAN POE FOLLOWED BY OPEN MIKE For POETS OF THE PAST (AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION (COSTUMES OPTIONAL)) October 25th at 7:30 PM REFRESHMENTS DONATION: $7.00; STUDENTS AND SENIORS: $5.00 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:43:29 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit C-c-curiouser etc How do I know if this & any or every e-mail to the list is or is not a poem? shd I indent etc to make it clear that it is? or rhyme? I surely have it in mind to publish one or two of my e-mails to various persons in a _poetry_ magazine. Dan Raphael wrote >5) lets see more poems by more people. lets' see more opinons about poems, >more poetics & elss personalities. or maybe all of the above Tony Green > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:07:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Lest I remember In-Reply-To: <380D5133.F702260A@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i adore alan. i hope he keeps sending stuff to the list. At 12:20 AM -0500 10/20/99, Thomas Bell wrote: >alan has been doing this for a long time. it's part of the list for me >tom bell > >-- >//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ >OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., >WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW > LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER > >index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell >essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:40:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Re: demographic query In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, in fact, John Lowther's original inquiry (which literally no one, i think, replied to, seriously, tho a number used it as a pretext for lame witticisms) .. was made in a certain spirit, which i think few listees understood: Here in @lanta we have an extremely exciting poetry scene growing, but of course the South is not considered a hotbed of poetry. (i mean the real stuff, not the workshop academic stuff....) So we are always looking to make connections and smoke out our hidden kindred... Folks should consult the new New Orleans Review, for a sense of some of the possibilities lurking here in the xconfederate states.... But there is still a long way to go, to really set off the kind of bonfire we'd like... And as has been shrewdly analyzed by Hank Lazar (a naturalized Alabaman) in several essays, there are still many peculiarities to our situation here in the south: the rather debilitating legacy of a certain vitiated and self-conscious regionalism, for instance, which reinforces the most trivial and establishmentarian ideas about poetic and narrative form... Anyway, this interest in how things are shaping up down in dixie, was much of the reason for John's original post, i believe.... To judge from many of the responses, which trivialized it, i thought it might help point this out... southerly, mark prejsnar @lanta On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, George Bowering wrote: > >...& while we're being regionalist, what about per-capita List subscription > >by city or Metropolitan area? (Boulder, the poetry scene/city which I > >inhabit, comes to mind, but there are plenty of others: SF, NY, Lawrence KS, > >Philly, etc., etc. > > I am getting the idea that people are curious only about US places. > > > > > George Bowering. > , > > > fax: 1-604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:01:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression In-Reply-To: <001001bf1ab3$a1b62440$31c363d8@orion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i think that Dan R. has handled this controversy very well. i did not post in favor of his original post, because it feels peculiar and awkward to single out one poet for criticism, in this quasi-personal context.... but i and a bunch of other poets here in Atlanta felt at least very sympathetic: AS's work is often weak, diffuse, silly, and its extreme frequency on the list has led at least a half-dozen people i know to find new meaning in the phrase, "delete, don't read." Now, i think AS's work is sometimes energetic, interesting, provocative, and complex, also. Not as much as i'd like..and he sure does (as DR suggests) publish (including this list as a form of publication) far more than maybe he should. But, yeah, it is helpful to be acquainted with his work... i'm afraid Kent Johnson's extreme enthusiasm is a bit over the top; in my scheme of poetic things AS isn't huge or important or terribly exciting... But Dan was indeed (as he suggests) expressing the feelings of *quite a few* people on the list. And i feel he is right to point out that the responses to him were a little too quick and too thoughtless: he was not calling for censorship. So, as he says below: let 80 flowers bloom...... mark prejsnar On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, dan raphael wrote: > 1) Maybe i should have back channeled to sondheim asking him about his work. > > 2) why would the same people championing alan's right to express himself on > the list blast me for expressing myself. they sy the list is for exchanging > ideas and get dont get up in arms about me. > > 3) i do not favor censorship. i was not asking the list meister to limit > sondheims posting, but asking alan to consider the frequency of his positng > in lieu of the list's limited time and reader's time as well. unlike several > of the people who back-channeled me i get my list in digest form and cannot > delete posts on sight. i do read through everything that's sent me. > [there's always a lot of back-channel discussion. no one posted to the list > in favor of my opinion, tho i received several back channels in support, as > i suppose alan did] > > 4) but back to differences of opinions. some say that's what the list is > for. and i suppose i should craft some moreciritcal reasons why i dont think > reading most of alan's postings is worth my time. maybe even a reason > critical argument would go against what some people see as the list's range > ofitnerests/behaviors, since we dont see much heated discussion > > 5) lets see more poems by more people. lets' see more opinons about poems, > more poetics & elss personalities. or maybe all of the above > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:18:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Numbered Suggests (was "This is MY list!") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" { p o e t i x } sondheim writes; > And Fourth - I want to thank the readers on this list in general for their > generosity; I'd also like to see more work presented here that deals with > Poetics - from a point of view _within_ poetry or other literary forms, > complementing the work already from the position of critique or dialog. > raphael writes; 5) lets see more poems by more people. lets' see more opinions about poems, more poetics & else personalities. or maybe all of the above a silly song sings; this list is my list, this list is your list... stephen ellis brings up some interesting things in his post "up with down" that is, i think he's right in saying that there is a "seriousness" factor (i serious now do mumble yawn) but, well, i'd hope that it's perspectival, that maybe what i (and i assume others) write that comes off over-serious or something might be more adequately described as being full of concern, mine (in this example) ---- i think recently of that form and content post i sent in with the talk of creeley and antin etc, i can see, and easily imagine various others finding the concerns expressed there "too" something... serious ? theoretical ? (or theoretically naive ?) ---- but, in that instance, theyre mine and i care about em i imagine that if i suggested, even if only to myself, that the things i post to the list *ought* to all be things about which i really cared, that i'd immediately begin to chafe stephen asks; But what of posts that push the envelope of the group's assumptions? (i.e.., what ARE the group's assumptions?) indeed, what are they ? (our most cherished the hardest to spot ?) _john's list of poetix list assumptions/observations_ (making these up as i go) 1. posts which make unsupported, even banal claims contrary to (my perception of) general consensus will get lots of attention and have the potential to spawn multiple threads 2. most of the really interesting stuff must be going on backchannel 3. reading announcements that sound really fucking great are at least 9 hours away from where i am 4. alan sondheim will post at least every other day 5. any discussion of books of criticism will move into (if not thru) a divisive period of threading 6. everyone thinks the list cd be more interesting, useful, meaningful, productive (pick yr value term) but... 7. that things like the following will annoy some people to thank the list like position critique about interesting (and assume all will the threads really must i at into (hmmm...? apparently build outright choices Perhaps over of conceit? point sondheim chafe announcements discussion criticism attention backchannel i criticism thru) divisive point agreeable presentation, generosity; assumptions? assumptions?) are unsupported, and have potential apparently never there the scene light list "destination" what always in order able also all the this that that is it's i imagine expressed really cherished interesting discussion of criticism move dan confident measured against otherwise attention backchannel i criticism thru) divisive point agreeable presentation, generosity; assumptions? assumptions?) are unsupported, and have potential apparently never there the scene light list "destination" what always in order able also all the this that that is it's i imagine expressed really 8. that no one actually has a typewriter hooked to the list so what do we want from the list ? dan wants more by more (but less by alan) more opinions but less personalities (hmmm...? maybe this is a call for chance derived opinions ? i.e., those not held and ultimately revealing personalities) alan wants poetics "from a point of view _within_ poetry" etc (not sure i like this as i've heard so much talk of this basic idea, and all of it hinges on an apparently *very clear* idea of what's "within" and what's "without" that i'm never very confident about myself) i don't know what i want or if i do i doubt i should say )L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:55:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Manfred Obenzinger Subject: Re: Making & Looping Poetry Tapes In-Reply-To: <00ec01bf1b0c$fbeaf4a0$c800a8c0@aviva> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have a regular assignment in classes for students to read and record 20 minute selections from Moby Dick, Huckelberry Finn, Leaves of Grass, poems of John Donne, Howl, (depending on what the class focuses on), and they are to write short descriptions of how they made their selections, how their understanding of the text guides them in their performance, how they do the voices, intonation, sound effects or music (sometimes these readings turn into productions), etc. This is invariably an exciting, illuminating experience. Reading out loud allows you to experience the oral quality of literature (particularly of something like Huckelberry Finn) or the hidden poetic qualities of prose (the iambic pentameter of Moby Dick), the breath rythmns of poetry (Howl), or quality or tone (the standup comedian characteristic of AG's "America"). Reading out loud creates connectivity and music that otherwise the text-scanning eyeball often misses. Taking turns I had a class read excerpts from a Dorothy Parker story alongside excerpts from Gertrude Stein out loud -- and suddenly the works opened up and students "got" Stein and even felt a strange parallel between two seemingly incompatable writers. Open mouth; open brain. Hilton Obenzinger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:16:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Zauhar Subject: Re: the real issue of audience In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII David Kellogg will be more articulate than I can be on this issue, but that's not going to stop me from writing. Audience studies for poetry would be interesting and are necessary, especially given that there seem to be dozens of laments published annually about poetry and the loss of audience (the Death of Poetry genre). By audience studies, I mean actual, empirical studies of the sort, for instance, that Bourdieu undertakes in Distinction. Closer to (my own anglo-american) home, in the late 80s, cultural studies scholars focusing on mass communication shifted attention from the texts to audience. The purpose seemed to be to empower the audience, to see, as I seem to remember David Kellogg mentioning at least once when explicating Bourdieu, what uses the audience made of the programs. There would be several differences between a cultstud TV audience study and any future poetry audience study. One that immediately pops to mind is that TV critics, from the Frankfurt School on, assumed passivity on behalf of tv audiences, whereas poetry readers (readers in general) where considered to be somewhat more active (then again, a common criticisim of "workshop poetry" is that it assumes greater passivity than does more formally investigative poetry). (I.A. Richards' _Practical Criticism_ as primitive audience study?) In any case, while I think that Audience study is necessary at some point, a MAJOR problem with all the cultstud works I can think of (Ien Ang's Watching Dallas, even Bourdieu's Distinction, to name just two) is that, ultimately, all that changes is that the TEXT shifts, from being one produced by an author-figure (writer, director, production company) to being one produced by the critic-commentator. That is, the AUDIENCE becomes the text, shaped by the commentator and subsequently commented upon by the commentator. This would strike me as a major limitation of audience studies. Of course, it's not like a study of the "primary" "text" is problem free. Enough from me for now. David Zauhar University of Illinois at Chicago "i have a city to cover with lines" --d.a. levy On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, Mark Prejsnar wrote: > David Kellog wrote: I'm not sure I understand the question. I _do_ think > that Beach's analysis is dismissive of the real issue of audience. In > fact, his analysis of Dobyns's audience is wholly dismissive: it is a > "built-in academic audience of more than three hundred creative writing > programs" (59). While a few gestures are made toward what reviewers have > to say about Dobyns, or more often what they do not say: "reviewers seldom > speak about his use of form, if they mention it at all." (61) > > > ************* > > Mark prejsnar replies: WHAT IS the real issue of audience?? It seems to > me that Beach DOES address aspects of the issue of audience, throughout > that chapter, and throughout the book.... In what way do you think he > hasn't addressed "the real issue" ...? And by the way, the quotations > you give from the chapter above, .. seem to me like perfectly useful and > interesting asides by Beach (altho they are by no means the sum and > substance of his arguments...) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:45:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Re: Lest I remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ditto Pam Brown --- Thomas Bell wrote: > alan has been doing this for a long time. it's part > of the list for me > tom bell > > -- > //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ > OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ > <><>,...,., > WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ > ZEUS'WRATHHTARW > LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY > ] SPACER > > index of online work at > http://members.home.net/trbell > essays: > http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm > ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:27:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 19 Oct 1999 to 20 Oct 1999 (#1999-197) In-Reply-To: <199910210409.AAA16967@cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >From: dan raphael >Subject: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression > >5) lets see more poems by more people. lets' see more opinons about poems, >more poetics & elss personalities. or maybe all of the above Actually, let's *not*, on this list, directly. There are scads of free web page services out there who'll give you several Mb of disk space on a web server to put up poems. I humbly suggest that authors seeking feedback from poetics list members get themselves some web page space from one of these services (Yahoo, Tripod, etc.) and place their poems there, and simply post the URL to the poetics list. Those interested can visit the site with a click, or at most a quick cut and paste of the web URL. Those not interested will only have to scan past a few lines. (This is the solution that some other mailing lists I am on use to handle material marginal to the express putpose of the list, and it seems to work all right.) Many word processors allow basic web page formatting, and AOL has a free HTML layout program called AOLPress, which is no more difficult to use than the average word processor. Ron Henry -- Ron Henry / ronhenry@clarityconnect.com Aught, a journal of poetry http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm "March March with a trouser in its heart." -- Hannah Bonner ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:03:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Charles Bernstein and Gil Ott Reading, Oct 24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Notable Poets and Writers Series presents CHARLES BERNSTEIN and GIL OTT Sunday, October 24, 2:30 p.m. at the Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center 2nd and Cooper Streets Camden, New Jersey 08102 adjacent to the Rutgers University Camden campus for info and directions www.waltwhitmancenter.org 856-964-8300 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:14:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Tracking down a reference. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Could someone on the list help me with this? I have a new novel out, A Boy in Winter, and several people have now asked me if its title relates to a Philip Larkin poem, "A Girl in Winter." Looked in a Larkin collected and couldn't find such poem. Does anyone have a clue? (PS-- I know Larkin wasn't a good man-- I'd just like info on that line). Backchannel if you'd like. Maxine Chernoff ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:13:16 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Fogarty Subject: ping pong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ping pong pong ping pong ping pong or something like that? Who wrote it? It has been stuck in my head for the last three days and I can't account for its arrival except that I read it somewhere in the last two weeks and it stuck. Regards, peter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:52:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Perez Subject: Re: the real issue of audience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in all fairness, it seems like I hear again and again how poetry has a larger audience than ever. Is this larger than ever audience reading what I read? Doubt it. The other night on local news here in DC I saw a story about what I think was a Chicago Police Precinct that got together once a week to read their own poetry and listen to each other. Community members came and participated, etc. No they didn't seem to be addressing the issues I'm dealing with, but still, people are reading/listening/writing words in some way that keeps the whole big thing moving. Please also see the popularity/mutability of hip hop. jamie.p David Zauhar wrote: << given that there seem to be dozens of laments published annually about poetry and the loss of audience (the Death of Poetry genre). >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:54:57 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >AS's work is often weak, diffuse, silly, and its extreme frequency on the list has led at least a half-dozen people i know to find new meaning in the phrase, "delete, don't read." Mack, er, Mark, you have a very bright critical career ahead of you. Pass the sunglasses and roll out the red carpet! Get me a seat on Air Force One! Feel the authoritative upholstery! Turn down the lights!: ) Gee, maybe I should show some good ol' RESTRAINT. Ahh, fuck that. >in my scheme of poetic things AS isn't huge or important or terribly >exciting... And I feel priveleged to learn of his lack of importance from you. : ) Can you send me that scheme? The poetics of schemata, the schematics of poetry. How poetic. Kinda like instructions on building a television. I was just building a poem from scratch yesterday, some wires, some wood, some capacitors, resistors, and was looking for a good schematic. Maybe i need to head to Hotlanta to find them? Joe's Poetry Schematics Shop down there by Five Points? : ) >But Dan was indeed (as he suggests) expressing the feelings of *quite a >few* people on the list. And i feel he is right to point out that the >responses to him were a little too quick and too thoughtless: he was not >calling for censorship. actually, he he seemed to be advocating a particular form of censorship - self-censorship. self-censorship from threats. like of being labelled a crap artist. this type of censorship is what keeps newspapers and televisions full of doodoo, full of propaganda. I think the NYT might have a job for you! : ) : ) : ) smiling happy faces! : ) : ) : ) I hope this was too quick and too thoughtless. Let's have my lawyer and your lawyer do lunch. in case your flame spreads, or "blooms," as you call it. the market force of criticism = CONTROVERSY. good work. A+. : ) if we cannot laugh we can count ourselves doomed to the same thing we have always been doomed to anyway. Bloomin', : ) Patrick ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:35:21 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Arion Press evicted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hoyem had a very decent book of his own poems in the 1960s and this press and its cousins/ancestors have been responsible for a large portion of the small press universe for a long time. At the very least one would hope that a university (e.g. Berkeley, which published Hoyem's edition of Moby Dick) would invite the press as an ongoing archive (rather the way Hatch Show Prints, the press did most of the 19th C. minstrel show and later Grand Ole Opry flyers is now a "project" of the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville, just round the corner from Ryman Auditorium). It would be a tragedy to lose this resource. Ron Silliman ----------------------------------------------- CAST OUT Eviction stalks letterpress printers creating new Bible KEN GARCIA Thursday, October 21, 1999 ©1999 San Francisco Chronicle URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/10/21/MN17742.DTL In the beginning was the Word. In the end was the lease termination notice. And while the end is not quite yet, the folks at Arion Press, one of the finest printing houses in the nation, know well that their days upon Earth may be a shadow. Such biblical quotations are fitting in this case because Andrew Hoyem, the publisher of Arion books, is in the process of creating one of the world's greatest Bibles. But just as the book is taking shape, so is a familiar San Francisco controversy: Hoyem and his specialized team of letterpress printers are being evicted from their longtime home on Bryant Street in the South of Market area, a place where meticulous book designers have been painting words for nearly a century. Long before rising land prices, astronomical rents and multimedia, there was an art form called fine printing that found a home in San Francisco. The city became a showplace for some of the great American bookmakers of the modern age. People like John Henry Nash, Lawton Kennedy, and Edward and Robert Grabhorn all gravitated to the cultured city by the bay. Hoyem, who was Robert Grabhorn's last partner before his death, is their direct descendant. The pages of the city's past are zipping by with such speed these days that it is hard to remember that beautiful books are still in demand, even if they are not available at a click from a discount merchant somewhere in the ether of the Internet. And only in development- crazed San Francisco, it seems, could the future of the Good Book end up being in such a bad place. ``It's a terrible situation for us,'' Hoyem told me the other day. ``There is a serious question about whether we can continue to function at all. And here we are in the midst of printing our biggest project ever.'' That would be the new Bible, the greatest single challenge in bookmaking. Hoyem, whose publishing house is renowned as a spawning ground for beautiful, handcrafted books, started the project more than a year ago. The Bible, all 400 copies, is being printed and bound mostly by hand. A work of printing art, and carrying a art-heavy price tag: $7,250 for an unbound edition, $8,500 for a leather-bound edition. That's without the hand-illuminated letters, which would raise the price another $2,500. But that printing run has been disrupted by news of ``progress.'' The owners of the brick building at 460 Bryant St., the real estate arm of Fisher Friedman Associates, an architectural firm, are evicting all the tenants, ostensibly to do seismic upgrades. Hoyem believes that the engineering work could take place with his printing presses in place, but the landlord has so far refused to extend the lease. And Hoyem says he has been told that the architects want to develop the building to its ``full economic capacity.'' All the tenants, including some sewing firms and a few other small businesses, have been told to be out by June 30, 2000. Nothing in the Bible about that, although you might find it on a fiscal year calendar. In Arion's case, however, moving is about as easy as printing ``War and Peace'' one letter at a time. Within his shop sit priceless presses, rare casting machines, keyboards and other equipment. His firm now owns the famed type foundry of Mackenzie & Harris, which began using its hot metal magic on equipment purchased for the 1915 Panama-Pacific International Exposition. In 1925, Mackenzie & Harris moved to a new building on Folsom Street and Hawthorne Lane, where their typography machines churned until they were relocated to the Bryant Street building in 1974. So finding a new home for Arion involves moving more than 30 tons of cast-iron inventory and carefully reinstalling a complex configuration of gas lines, electrical lines and compressed air machines. Hoyem said the minimum estimate of any move so far has been $400,000 -- money, he says, that he does not have. At the very least, he believes, he would have to close the type foundry if he's forced to move. And the result of that would be even more costly. ``We simply could not make the kinds of books we make today,'' he says. ``It's very painful to contemplate.'' And even more so, if, like Hoyem, one bleeds ink. Hoyem, by way of the Midwest and the Navy, started out at a small press shop in San Francisco in 1961, printing books no one else would publish, including some of the ``Beats,'' Philip Whalen and William Burroughs. Money was harder to come by than market share. He printed everything -- birth announcements, wedding announcements, even, desperate thing, office stationery. He ended up meeting the brothers Grabhorn, legends in their field, who responded to his request for printing assistance as if he were being shepherded into a secret society. By 1966, Hoyem and Robert Grabhorn formed a partnership, which lasted until 1973 when Hoyem went on his own. He formed Arion Press, after the Greek poet who was saved from drowning by a dolphin. And then Arion built its own mythical status in the fine art book field, starting with an edition of ``Moby Dick'' that included wood engravings of Herman Melville, whaling tools and even sea creatures. It was a tome that collectors ranked as one of the two or three greatest American fine press books. Ever. That was many years and printings ago. Hoyem decided that his great project would be a classic rendition of the Bible, an undertaking that he said would probably be the last folio Bible printed from hot metal type, a book to rank up there with Johannes Gutenberg's 1455 landmark version. A timeless treasure, now running short on time. Hoyem says Arion has just completed printing the book of Isaiah, almost exactly halfway through the 1,350-page Bible. Since the landlord so far has declined to grant a lease extension, Hoyem says he'll be lucky to finish the printing by June, and almost certainly will not be able to complete the binding. Profit driven by development was not a key topic for the prophets, either in the end or the beginning. Hoyem is just trying to find a way to survive. That's not an easy thing for a practitioner of a lost art in a rapidly changing city. ``That which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten,'' the Bible says. Words to live by, which is probably why they wrote them down. ©1999 San Francisco Chronicle Page A19 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:13:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: Tracking down a reference. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Most poets are monsters. The ones, I mean, who win. ---------- >From: MAXINE CHERNOFF >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Tracking down a reference. >Date: Thu, Oct 21, 1999, 4:14 PM > >Could someone on the list help me with this? I have a new novel out, A Boy >in Winter, and several people have now asked me if its title relates to a >Philip Larkin poem, "A Girl in Winter." Looked in a Larkin collected and >couldn't find such poem. Does anyone have a clue? (PS-- I know Larkin >wasn't a good man-- I'd just like info on that line). Backchannel if >you'd like. > >Maxine Chernoff > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:47:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Numbered Suggests (was "This is MY list!") In-Reply-To: <5D5C5C8C3A41D211893900A024D4B97C983C29@md2.facstaff.oglethorpe.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It's not that I have a "very clear" idea of what's within or without - in fact, just the opposite. What seems to be the case (with numerous excep- tions including the post I'm replying to) is that a kind of rational dis- course is taken as normative here; then there are the poems, the experi- ments, and poeticized replies to the discourse. And I think there might be other ways to discuss poetics, which at least for me goes beyond poetry to the flesh and bones of language and the symbolic, in a way that normative prose doesn't. I'm not very clear here, for which apologies - Alan Internet Text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:06:58 -0400 Reply-To: ndorward@sprint.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate and Jane Dorward Subject: Re: Applying for ISBN #??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not to make a silly comment, but I was startled at the idea of a $195 fee for being assigned an ISBN number--I thought this was a free service!!! In Canada here, I've received an ISBN number and an ISSN number through the National Library, free of charge. N Nate & Jane Dorward ndorward@sprint.ca 109 Hounslow Ave., Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ph: (416) 221 6865 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:09:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Lisa Robertson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If anyone has a current e-mail address for Lisa Robertson and could pass it along to me, I would be grateful -- my address for her seems to have expired. Susan Wheeler ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:08:20 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: demographic query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > >...& while we're being regionalist, what about per-capita List >subscription > >by city or Metropolitan area? (Boulder, the poetry scene/city which I > >inhabit, comes to mind, but there are plenty of others: SF, NY, Lawrence >KS, > >Philly, etc., etc. > >I am getting the idea that people are curious only about US places. > > > > >George Bowering. > , > ,,,except for the Zaumist Protecorate whyche are many places eg germany/canada/france/usa/australia and all at once even!!! pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:54:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Johanna Drucker e-mail (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this came to the administrative account. ------------------------------------------------------ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999, 10:22 PM +0000 From: Agolding1@aol.com To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: Johanna Drucker e-mail If anyone has Johanna Drucker's e-mail since she moved to Virginia, could you b-c me, please? thanks, Alan ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:00:52 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Green wrote: > > C-c-curiouser etc How do I know if > this & any or every e-mail to the list is > or is not a poem? shd I indent etc > > to make it clear that it is? or rhyme? > I surely have it in mind to publish one or > two of my e-mails to various persons in > a _poetry_ magazine. > which this is and would be if on a bus I overheard the in dentation and we all thot that's a poem now we could use as a chair to sit then and recognize and fall asleep in as recognizable forms are realtively those that have passed from sight and such the poem's mainly here (troubl'ed) clef rely on the scope and sequence rather than the verb. ain't it? (this is NOT a poem) Lew Welch to his sister: "a REAL rock in a REAL ocean" ----- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:23:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: demographic query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Certainly a true statement in middle TN, but then again this is where "New Criticism" came from. tom bell I for one would like to see more about significant Southern form today. Mark Prejsnar wrote: >, there are still many peculiarities to our situation > here in the south: the rather debilitating legacy of a certain vitiated > and self-conscious regionalism, for instance, which reinforces the most > trivial and establishmentarian ideas about poetic and narrative form... > > -- //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:21:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: tracking down Larkin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII re: Maxine chernoff's query: A Girl in Winter is the title of a novel by Larkin, not a poem. It was published in 1957. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:06:57 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: New @ Bridge St: O'Hara Catalog, poetics@, Coolidge, Harryman, Waldrop &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ordering & discount information at the end of the post. Thanks, poetics, for your support. 1. _Poetic Culture: Contemporary American Poetry Between Community and Institution_, Christopher Beach, Northwestern, $17.95. 2. _A Deleuzian Century?_ ed Ian Buchanan, Duke, $18.95. Jameson, DeLanda, Rodowick, Mullarkey, Bogue, Dwyer, Colombat, et al. 3. _Art Poetic'_, Olivier Cadiot, trans Cole Swensen, Green Integer, $12.95. "I approve of your opinion, but NOT of your violence" 4. _Cultural Evidence_, Catalina Cariaga, Subpress/ 'A' A, $12. "She was smart and clever, like that." 5. _Now It's Jazz: Writings on Kerouac & The Sounds_, Clark Coolidge, Living Batch Press, $14. "Here's another good one." 6. _Zombie Jet_, Connie Deanovich, Zoland, $13. "Alpine + compound = Hitler." 7. _The Bob Dylan Companion_, ed Carl Benson, Schirmer, $15. Articles, essays, reviews '61-'98. 8. _If So, Tell Me_, Barbara Guest, Reality Street, $10.95. "A feathery existential bower shall block / the rude flagon." 9. _The Confetti Trees_, Barbara Guest, Sun & Moon, $10.95. ". . . . the suicide reflected in the water catches the eye that with only a passing interest might have watched the woman jump into the water the eye is caught by this 'artistic trick' when an adolescence is passed viewing these 'artistic tricks' the woman jumping into the water could never be as significant to this person as 'reflections in water' the reflection in water is 'poetry of the moment.' 10. _THE WORDS after Carl Sandburg's Rootabaga Stories and Jean-Paul Sartre_, Carla Harryman, O Books, $12. "Myriad seeds when struck by passing war machines give birth to comedy." 11. _The Hat 2_, ed Davis & Edgar, $7. Berrigan, Berrigan, Bouchard, Brown, Bruno, Carlen, Carll, Friedman, Gardner, Gilfillan, Gizzi, Hale, Jarnot, Keckler, Latta, Lubasch, Luoma, McCain, Malmude, Myles, Nelson, Olin, Padgett, Patton, Price, Quart, Sikelianos, Sweet, Szamatowicz, Vitiello, Young, & Zurawski. 12. _poetics@_, ed Joel Kuszai, preface by Charles Bernstein, Roof, $18.95. Gathered largely from the first two years of the poetics list, includes 67 contributors. "Provides a window onto an ongoing, highly articulate, intensely percolating poetics-in-the-making that is a fundamental feature of the most engaging and active poetry of our time." --Charles Bernstein 13. _Poetic Investigations: Singing the Holes in History_, Paul Naylor, Northwestern, $19.95. Essays on Howe, Mackey, Hejinian, Brathwaite, and Nourbese Philip. 14. _In Memory of My Feelings: Frank O'Hara and American Art_, Russell Ferguson, MOCA/U Cal, $39.95. "Don't be bored" 15. _Theoretical Objects_, Nick Piombino, Green Integer, $10.95. "What you didn't say is what you wanted me to think about." 16. _Idea's Mirror_, Stephen Ratcliffe, Potes & Poets, $12.50. "is missing, as thought broken off" 17. _The Celebration Chronicles: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Property Value in Disney's New Town_, Andrew Ross, Ballantine, $25.95. 18. _On Beauty and Being Just_, Elaine Scarry, Princeton, $14.95. 19. _Shark 2_, ed Lytle Shaw & Emily Clark, $10. McVarish, Day, Pierce, Burns, Discenza, Luoma, Clark, Bernstein, Harrison, McLeer, Bellaver, Geary, Shepard, Gray, Evans, Julian, Biglieri, & Warsh. 20. _Mexico: A Play_, Gertrude Stein, Green Integer, $10.95. "I wonder if there is a mistake." 21. _Tripwire 3_, ed Morrison & Buuck, $8. Ward, Barber, Saidenberg, Robbins, Russo, Lennon, Christie, Cahun, Robinson, Cox, Cole, Tribble, Cummings, Treadwell, Halpern, Bollinger, Killian, Harryman/Hejinian, &&&. 22. _Reluctant Gravities_, Rosmarie Waldrop, New Directions, $12.95. "Don't you think it a strange coincidence, he says, that every man whose skull's been opened had a brain?" 23. _The Cornel West Reader_, Cornel West, Basic, $35. 24. _Cerulean Embankments_, Geoff Young, Ling, Batch. $14. "O K so maybe your genius _is_ figburst sweet / but hard of heart's no bib / on educational right's, please / call a cream goatee by its rightful name" Some Bestsellers: _The New American Poetry 1945-1960_ ed. Donald Allen, $16.95. _Selected Writings Volume 2_, Walter Benjamin, $37.50. _In Company: Robert Creeley's Collaborations_, $24.95 _The Objectivist Nexus: Essays in Cultural Poetics_, ed DuPlessis & Quartermain, $24.95. _Guy Debord_, Anselm Jappe, U. Cal, $17.95. _Last Instance_, Dan Farrell, $9. _Fracas_, Liz Fodaski, $9. _Rocks on a Platter_, Barbara Guest, $12.95. _at. least._, P. Inman, $9. _Medieval_, Steven Farmer, $9. _Stealer's Wheel_, Chris Stroffolino, $12.95. _Polyverse_, Lee Ann Brown, $11.95. _Economy of the Unlost, Anne Carson, $29.95. _Pierce-Arrow_, Susan Howe, $14.95. _Meadow_, Tom Raworth, $7. _Protective Immediacy_, Rod Smith, $9.95. _New Time_, Leslie Scalapino, $11.95. _Daybook of a Virtual Poet_, Robert Creeley, $12. Poetics folks receive free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping + 10% discount on orders of more than $30. There are two ways to order. 1. E-mail your order to aerialedge@aol.com with your address & we will bill you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr add, order, & card # & we will send a receipt with the books. We must charge shipping for orders out of the US. Bridge Street Books, 2814 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20007. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:16:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Carter Subject: in partial martial t' word blatent lure venus the oblivionous Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" { } in partial martial t' word blatent lure venus the oblivionous yeah this palace be jumpin' pumpin' no need o' completion in the process longs 'n' ardent softened periodicities 'n' call 'n' coil ya in return t' th' wheelhouse round: do you seed each other the way the words break and mend not so neatly but this discretely concern cause for dislocation of the dislocated to own the hall who questions wonder the in flew whence the vibes master and hence the hints cease from a few shoots stemmin' branchin' jeu das whole head o' steam book word light reverse reference (t') th' street walk her key forces hydra edition ink route well squirrelled shapes of intrusion enter lieu shuttle bracket forth betterment/beletterment a fallen main kind or snortsort not yet sworded the outer further into the exterior reaches of tangibility whose numbered trials in process blue seeds in return turretspire this sea this ocean these waters of spice 'n' reverie thin ice once owned the un-ownable in search for an other whirled being entity alife 'n' well-entoweled merge in d' eyes her marks 'n' traces sparks 'n' laces raises the snakeses spearheaded releases real eases of pressures' pleasures readily Atlantis more than a trade edition would abnormally be the accepted norm in privacy of one's own inner darkness slid up by a candle stageraging of the clampon reversal unit underwhirrled imageries on parade with no drumble but come t' blink a fit drumble might could be clothes suggested if not indicated enveloping matrix shook itshelf down in t' th' drownin' drink de-link terrorstory on location dis here locale vast unfastenin' itself up up up up on into another level o' dimension 'til d' eye-dust settle monuments crumblehood phase sequent floral scents of some swarmly wind-up motions buzzy screen all war out by gaze-glued glappa got slopped wit d' crops turned cakecuppedsidedawn the name cool 'n' kept on coolin' a spell that vent over the border in pain prevention approximates swirled round so quick couldn't artly git no balance leff on the balance sheets new in disarray all ready renewed 'n' ready for the ready 'til th' poppy got sloppy now lick wut y'all done got star t' th' hidden did itself up into a glisteningly smoothly placaging (veneering) passage sway git ya all caught up in cotton candy (piano) reductions o' the art too swift thus missed the kiss entirely unconscious though nothing entire axioms bought 'n' soiled to sadistfraction hard heart standard it git ya 'til it got ya still loosen ain't toldly loose completely undone sleep fo' ya know wut hid ya gone vanish spoof-p(r)oof vapors th' rue th' roof aloof locked up under melting locks just as quirk shot the change simple out the complex unravel lit up in t' frames skipped by any blaze necessary glissgloss hatcheration o' th' nether feather a fiery light d' vice for the lettering in o' all kinds o' forces as swell as farces that could trip/rip/drip/lip/plip up bulb hustle must sell to distract and detract from the mot east fluidics o' the sleep through age a shunt shade blade clot off to a plaid star add t' slow this shift t' dawn fr' mouth o' night flight akin gone hid in the soon noted for its shunning of the double let alone the triple forgot about the multiple as if it never happy end in order to stimulate next text in line on off line stillness of a tropical fall(en) day out tomb null it linger in its fingerings taut so well by the road transmitter aboard for just such oceans -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:57:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG EVENT: Sunday Oct 31 Mayer/Cully reading at Botanical Gardens, 3:30 pm Comments: To: egl@listserv.arizona.edu, english@listserv.arizona.edu, "mfa (E-mail)" , pog@listserv.arizona.edu, "pogevent (E-mail)" , "Valved (E-mail)" , "Waves (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NEWS RELEASE POG in association with Tucson Botanical Gardens and The University of Arizona Extended University present a Poetry Reading by Bernadette Mayer and Barbara Cully Sunday, October 31 3:30 pm Tucson Botanical Gardens 2150 N Alvernon Bernadette Mayer is the author of numerous books of poetry and prose. Her latest books include Sonnets, The Formal Field of Kissing, The Bernadette Mayer Reader, The Desires of Mothers to Please Others in Letters, Proper Name, and Two Haloed Mourners: Poems. Throughout the 1980s, Mayer was director of The Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church in New York where, as well as teaching her legendary Experiments in Poetry Workshop, she produced the Poetry Project's reading series. Mayer's position made her a central figure in the community of artists and writers gathered at that time in New York City's Lower East Side. With her husband Lewis Warsh, she edited United Artists press, which published a number of seminal books of poetry, including Ted Berrigan's Sonnets and Mayer's own Utopia. Barbara Cully is from San Diego California and earned her MFA at the Iowa Writers' Workshop. She is the author of The New Intimacy (Penguin, 1997), winner of the National Poetry Series Open Competition 1996, and of Shoreline Series (Kore Press,1997). She has taught in the University of Arizona Department of English since 1986 and has been a guest poet and teacher at the Prague Writers' Workshop in the Czech Republic. She is currently at work on a book of prose lyrics; the working title is “Desire Reclining.” Admission: $5 POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council and the Arizona Commission on the Arts. for further information contact: POG c/o Tenney Nathanson 296-6416 mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:57:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG EVENT: Monday, Nov 1 open discussion with poet Bernadette Mayer (U of Arizona) Comments: To: egl@listserv.arizona.edu, english@listserv.arizona.edu, "mfa (E-mail)" , pog@listserv.arizona.edu, "pogevent (E-mail)" , "Valved (E-mail)" , "Waves (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit “Experimental Poetry” a discussion with poet Bernadette Mayer Monday November 1 2 pm Modern Languages 303 Bernadette Mayer is the author of numerous books of poetry and prose. Her latest books include Sonnets, The Formal Field of Kissing, The Bernadette Mayer Reader, The Desires of Mothers to Please Others in Letters, Proper Name, and Two Haloed Mourners: Poems. Throughout the 1980s, Mayer was director of The Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church in New York where, as well as teaching her legendary Experiments in Poetry Workshop, she produced the Poetry Project's reading series. Mayer's position made her a central figure in the community of artists and writers gathered at that time in New York City's Lower East Side. With her husband Lewis Warsh, she edited United Artists press, which published a number of seminal books of poetry, including Ted Berrigan's Sonnets and Mayer's own Utopia. Sponsored by: The University of Arizona Department of English The Arizona Quarterly -------- Poetry Reading: On Saturday, October 31, at 3:30, Bernadette Mayer and Barbara Cully will read at Tucson Botanical Gardens, 2150 N Alvernon. The reading is sponsored by POG, The University of Arizona Extended University Writing Works Center, and Tucson Botanical Gardens, and is made possible in part by grants from the Arizona Commission on the Arts and the Tucson/Pima Arts Council. For further information about these events contact: POG: 296-6416 mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:45:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Re: Tracking down a reference. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks to all the kind peple who identified Larkin's A Girl in Winter for me. MC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:27:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: A H Bramhall Subject: Fwd To The Poetry Republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the book expressly happened. it happened without a lot of disinterest lacking, and that's fine. the public had to have something, for a while, and this was it. the book that could be spoken of, within a forum of people who know they are peers, ready with a whiff of exactly how people react to the thing they say they think they say they are thinking about, everyday, as much as possible. exhausting as this sounds, it is purposeful, such a freshness. there will be quiet times, and the poets - oh yes, the subject of all this is poetry - will render that somehow, in a perfection of what they do in doing what they do. hours between this time and that time are empty, bereft, of the thing that leads to the poetry. in a specific way, too, in the sense that writing takes just a little time, and maybe gives it back somehow. not to be disputatious, just stuck in the fine fancy of the poetry thing made and built and sent into a world where poetry needs to go. it seems like process has got a good thing going. daily weekly yearly arrives the poems, or something comes. again to clarify (which poetry never has to do): evidence exists, not to say DNA, but that there are ways to understand that something happens, even with an ignorant turn of mind, or a closing emotional door or what you will. just consider the mutability. it seems so dormant at times but can it attend to everything and all the time? a book wanders around, awaiting its share. or the book can't happen because the closed sign makes the market unsafe. does any of this make sense? think about it: a process of words, or word-like things, collecting in some way, with a severe lack of descriptive capability by any of us to witness the event, tho we try. and we want to get excited, and we deem an audience becomes the creation, or what the hell happens. such a frank muddle. why care that the book happened? dire lives living inside definitions that will complete the affirmations with denials: just so human, aggravated and tending toward confusion. nevertheless, a moral question lurks within the book. a strange necessity, given that the book and the writer do nothing, and both probably feel sad about that. one would expect a greater registration of the entire pathos and scheme and critical mass that causes the bloody machine to grind its gears. for this fear called poetry faces a tough battle, always. * * * * * NB: this piece either is or isn't theoretical and likewise may or may not be a poem. whatever fits the expressed purpose of this list, that's what I'm down with. AHB ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 05:05:59 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Numbered Suggests (was "This is MY list!") Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed John, re: your mention of my mention of the term "seriousness" with respect to what's posted on the list, let me say that I, too, am serious about seriousness in ways that are, for me, energizing and, recognizing the energy, completely hilarious for about ten seconds of pure joy, being slapped up side the head, stupid! Yes! More! (of anything!) The list, of course, is a sort of microcosm of the "world of poetry" out there in the big bad world, full of possibilities for publication and position and power and all the good things one would then feel free to buy into in order to have the advantage of being in on whatever was (is) at hand. Right. All the great readings ARE nine hours away. But what I want to get at, and to, in addition AND instead of all the great readings, is some sense that the "world" (of poetry) seems very much caught up in the sense of itself as a business. Sure, it's an exchange, but given the hierarchical nature of who's who, how "free" can the exzchange ever get to be? I mean, to say your piece and be at peace and all that is for certain satisfying in some personal way, but the public momentum of any group effort always seems (to me) to get nipped in the bud before gaining the authority of full flower in many ways BECAUSE of its treatment as "a serious issue" which then opens up that can of wormy roses that shows forth all of the presumptions that prevent some more full consideration of "the issues at hand" from really going anywhere, because they become subject to the authority of a proof, as if there were a truth at bottom that needs rooting up and out, that "truth" being nothing but the presumption of an authority wch then contends for something other than the issues at hand (what ARE they, anyway?) in a sort of chummy exchange of critical remarks that passes for seriousness. My sense is, at base, it's this "seriousness" that is not supposed to be breached, and when it is, it's to be filled quickly with something like cement, when, in fact, a hollow laugh might just as well suffice. It's true, we won't get more from the list than what's already on it - you only get the things that are - yet what's on it is often disconcertingly empty because it seems to fall so short of what otherwise is sufficient to life, making chaos (total), maybe, instead of merely making sense. As a footnote, Douglas Rothschild's "questionable" post that I mentioned last time around, I hear, isn't even in the list archive. Perhaps the question "what does anyone hope to gain through editing (elimination)" will become increasingly pertinent - is it to the end of clarity? & if so, what is the figure &/or ground we are supposed to clearly see? While I can't at the moment see ANYthing clearly, I think I smell something up ahead that curiously resembles absence. - S E >From: "Lowther, John" >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Numbered Suggests (was "This is MY list!") >Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:18:32 -0400 > > { p o e t i x } > > > sondheim writes; > > > And Fourth - I want to thank the readers on this list in general for >their > > generosity; I'd also like to see more work presented here that deals >with > > Poetics - from a point of view _within_ poetry or other literary forms, > > complementing the work already from the position of critique or dialog. > > > raphael writes; > >5) lets see more poems by more people. lets' see more opinions about poems, >more poetics & else personalities. or maybe all of the above > > a silly song sings; > >this list is my list, this list is your list... > > >stephen ellis brings up some interesting things in his post "up with down" > >that is, i think he's right in saying that there is a "seriousness" factor >(i serious now do mumble yawn) but, well, i'd hope that it's perspectival, >that maybe what i (and i assume others) write that comes off over-serious >or >something might be more adequately described as being full of concern, mine >(in this example) ---- i think recently of that form and content post i >sent >in with the talk of creeley and antin etc, i can see, and easily imagine >various others finding the concerns expressed there "too" something... >serious ? theoretical ? (or theoretically naive ?) ---- but, in that >instance, theyre mine and i care about em > >i imagine that if i suggested, even if only to myself, that the things i >post to the list *ought* to all be things about which i really cared, that >i'd immediately begin to chafe > > stephen asks; > >But what of posts that push the envelope of the group's assumptions? >(i.e.., what ARE the group's assumptions?) > > indeed, what are they ? >(our most cherished the hardest to spot ?) > > >_john's list of poetix list assumptions/observations_ (making these up as i >go) > >1. posts which make unsupported, even banal claims contrary to (my >perception of) general consensus will get lots of attention and have the >potential to spawn multiple threads > >2. most of the really interesting stuff must be going on backchannel > >3. reading announcements that sound really fucking great are at least 9 >hours away from where i am > >4. alan sondheim will post at least every other day > >5. any discussion of books of criticism will move into (if not thru) a >divisive period of threading > >6. everyone thinks the list cd be more interesting, useful, meaningful, >productive (pick yr value term) but... > >7. that things like the following will annoy some people > > to thank the list like > position critique about interesting (and > assume all will the threads > really must i at into > (hmmm...? apparently build outright choices > Perhaps over of conceit? point > sondheim chafe announcements discussion criticism > attention backchannel i criticism thru) > divisive point agreeable presentation, generosity; > assumptions? assumptions?) are unsupported, and > have potential apparently never there > the scene light list "destination" > what always in order able > also all the this that > that is it's i imagine > expressed really cherished interesting discussion > of criticism move dan confident > measured against otherwise attention backchannel > i criticism thru) divisive point > agreeable presentation, generosity; assumptions? assumptions?) > are unsupported, and have potential > apparently never there the scene > light list "destination" what always > in order able also all > the this that that is > it's i imagine expressed really >8. that no one actually has a typewriter hooked to the list > > > so what > do we want > from the list ? > > dan wants >more by more > (but less by alan) >more opinions but less personalities > (hmmm...? maybe this > is a call for chance derived > opinions ? i.e., those not > held and ultimately revealing > personalities) > > alan wants >poetics "from a point of view _within_ poetry" etc > (not sure i like this > as i've heard so much talk of > this basic idea, and all of it > hinges on an apparently *very clear* > idea of what's "within" and what's > "without" that i'm never very confident > about myself) > > > >i don't know what i want or if i do i doubt i should say > > > > )L ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:26:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Leddy Subject: Re: Tracking down a reference In-Reply-To: <199910220415.XAA29566@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maxine Chernoff asked >Could someone on the list help me with this? I have a new novel out, A Boy >in Winter, and several people have now asked me if its title relates to a >Philip Larkin poem, "A Girl in Winter." Looked in a Larkin collected and >couldn't find such poem. Does anyone have a clue? Maxine, It's a Larkin novel, one of two. (The other is _Jill_.) Best, Michael Leddy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:54:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: DH: October 23: CARLA HARRYMAN, ALYSTYRE JULIAN In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991008153240.00a5d2b0@pop3.zipworld.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Segue @ Double happiness Saturdays from 4:00 to 6:00 pm. Readings begin punctually. Double Happiness is located at 173 Mott Street, just south of Broome. A 4$ contribution goes to the readers. October 23: CARLA HARRYMAN, ALYSTYRE JULIAN CARLA HARRYMAN is the author of ten books of prose, plays, poetry and essays including a novel, The Words: after Carl Sandburg's Rootabaga and Jean-Paul Sartre (O Books, Berkeley, 1999) and a volume of new and selected prose, There Never Was a Rose Without a Thorn (City Lights, 1995). She is currently working on a second novel, Gardener of Stars, and is engaged in the restaging of a chamber opera. She lives and teaches in Detroit. ALYSTYRE JULIAN is a poet and yoga teacher who lives in NYC. She has collaborated on a short film with Lee Ann Brown and has work in the current Chain. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:43:03 -0700 Reply-To: kendall@wordcircuits.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Kendall Subject: New at Word Circuits Comments: To: ht_lit , htww@lists.ed.ac.uk, CyberMountain , Wr-Eye-Tings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Apologies for cross-posting] ---------------------- NEW AT WORD CIRCUITS ---------------------- IN THE GALLERY: The Ballad of Sand and Harry Soot A Hypertext Poem by Stephanie Strickland A lush poem of love gone wrong between Sand, she of silicon being, and Harry Soot, man of carbon, man of flesh and mood. Winner of a Best of the Net Award from About.com, which enthuses "Sweet and jiggy, Stephanie Strickland's new cyberpoem is hot buttered hopscotch." Stephanie Strickland has received many other awards for her poetry, and her hypertext True North is available from Eastgate Systems. http://www.wordcircuits.com/gallery/sandsoot IN COMMENTARY: Time: The Final Frontier Robert Kendall's HTlit column asks: How can we get a grip on the temporality of hypertext structure? http://www.wordcircuits.com/comment/htlit_6.htm IN THE STUDIO: The latest beta version of the Connection System, a Web-based hypertext tool for poets and fiction writers. Includes Dreamweaver extensions. http://www.wordcircuits.com/connect Also check out our directory of authors and sites. Word Circuits Hypertext/Cybertext Poetry and Fiction http://www.wordcircuits.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Kendall E-Mail: kendall@wordcircuits.com Home Page: http://www.wordcircuits.com/kendall ----------------------------------------------------------------- Word Circuits (Hypertext/Cybertext Poetry and Fiction): http://www.wordcircuits.com On-Line Class in Hypertext Poetry and Fiction (The New School): http://www.wordcircuits.com/kendall/htclass.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:50:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: SAMUEL GARREN Subject: Re: Tracking down a reference. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To Maxine--You probably have heard by now, but the title is a novel written by Larkin, not a poem. Yours, sam Garren ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:23:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_Cabral_de_Melo_Neto_(1920-1999)?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jo=E3o Cabral de Melo Neto died last week. He was 79 years old. One of the= most important Brazilian poets of the postwar generations, Cabral continues to exert a strong influence on many younger Brazilian poets. He was remembered at a celebration for Haroldo de Campos=92s seventieth birthday at Yale this past weekend and certainly the two poets suggests the enormous range of Brazilian poetry in the past fifty years. As R=E9gis Bonvincino writes to me about= Cabral: =93Along with Carlos Drummond de Andrade and Murilo Mendes, Cabral is= considered the best poet of Brazilian Poetry born in the 20's.=94 Cabral=92s Selected Poetry: 1937-1990 is published by Wesleyan, and includes= the well-known translation of his work by Elizabeth Bishop. This afternoon= Horacio Costa and I translated two poems of Cabral that I wanted to post to the= list, with R=E9gis adding some changes by email to the first. =20 -- Charles Bernstein Psychology of Composition (VII) It=92s mineral the paper on which to write=20 verse; verse=20 that is possible not to make. Mineral are flowers and plants, fruits, animals when in a state of words. Mineral the horizon line, our names, those things made of words. Mineral, at last,=20 any book: because the written word is mineral, the cold nature of the written word. (Tr. Ch.B., H.C. and R.B., based on the published translations of Djelal Kadir.) **** The Last Poem I don=92t know who sends me poetry nor whether Who would call it that. But who who may be, who that Who (myself, my sweat?), be it woman, landscape, or the no that needs fill the void, to make, for example, the crutch that I made walk the left soul, to Whom should be given the inglorious burden I ask: my last poem sent, as a poem perverse, antilyric, made into antiverse. (Tr. Ch. B. and H.C., based on the published translations of Djelal Kadir.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:24:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: up with down!: Correction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re: Steve Ellis's second hand story in a recent post: 'tain't so. Charles ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:31:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kuszai Subject: The Devil's Aria, by Ted Pearson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" New from Meow Press THE DEVIL'S ARIA by Ted Pearson "Those who were inspired by the voice of the beast speaking from the confines of mortal innocence in "The Exorcist" will find Ted Pearson's exploration of the dark side of lyric poetry to be an expressive correlative to the present moment." --Barrett Watten The Devil's Aria, by Ted Pearson Meow Press, 1999 6.5 x 5" 32 pg. $6.00 Available November 1st from Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:34:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kuszai Subject: Artificial Cinnamon Nation, by Bill Marsh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" New from Meow Press ARTIFICIAL CINNAMON NATION, a primer, by Bill Marsh A gift to the muses by one of the worker-bee brethren, parts of Artificial Cinnamon Nation was "constructed from a limited vocabulary comprised of mostly 4letter+ anagrams": mortal narcotic oat rictal tonic anionic cocoa float in toto lactic while other parts arc from the luminescence of the aleatoric to the applied science of meaning-making: teaching creativity children do not engage; offering rewards the corporate culture of decline Artificial Cinnamon Nation, by Bill Marsh Meow Press, 1999 6.5 x 5" 28 pg. w/ limited edition color wrappers $6.00 Available November 1st from Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:27:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: r e a d m e has moved!!! / Sullivan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this message came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: Gary Sullivan Date: 10/20/99 11:31 AM -0400 Columbia University wasn't, apparently, happy about having an online magazine dedicated to contemporary poetics hanging out on their website. Soooo ... readme is now being housed at: http://www.jps.net/nada Thanks, Nada, for the webspace! & thanks, everyone else, for stopping by ... Gary ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:29:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: THE CLIMB INTO THE MOUNTAINS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (needs courier or other equi-spaced typeface) THE CLIMB INTO THE MOUNTAINS ####Now here is where I am balancing ###on top of THE PRESIDENT, Julu said, #standing on her head: It was a wonder! # #Jennifer joined her. THE PRESIDENT #####################was the world thought they but while #####################they were alive and together, they # #would enjoy it. Look, said Julu, I've #breasts. Jennifer looked; it was a #first, this breakthrough of wonder as ####they began to leap from T to H, # #landing solidly. A gap appeared; Julu #####################related it to the hymen, which Jennifer #####################didn't understand. Follow me, Julu # # #said; jump, and we'll make it ok #somewhere down here where for a moment they #rested, as if their skins were torn and open #from the struggle. They jumped up quickly # # #to the other side. Such was the case. #####################Look, said, Julu, here is where it is, #####################and Jennifer agreed she had much to # #learn. Suddenly it was time to leave # #and an E appeared; THE PRESIDENT #####################readied himself for the onslaught HE #####################was sure to come. Sure of victory, he # # #carried the following: The EYES of # # #Jennifer, her TONGUE - she could # # #neither see nor speak; and the HYMEN # ## #of Julu, transforming her into a # #### #permanent container. This is my ## ##misery, Jennifer, Julu said; she #### ####screamed JUMP JENNIFER, leaping # #across the gap associated with the #####################bleak world of THE PRESIDENT, who #####################had condemned both men and women # # #for wrecking the perfect country. # #Thus the country was spared and # #rebuilding according to plan; Julu # #could hardly stand it. Now she ## ##suffered as well, her sex closed #######to everyone. Jennifer wrote this and ###every other history, almost falling, # #jumping up to claim the territory #####################of the R. THE PRESIDENT would watch #####################from his eyes. THE PRESIDENT was # ## #thinking: In what way is the world ##### #primary? What can be said about the ######## #primacy of the world? Clearly it was # ####### # #not in perception itself; his exper- ###### ## ##iment on Jennifer was conclusive. ### #######Jennifer began sliding, looking for a # ###jump onto just another letter. E was on # #the horizon, clearly and calmly gar- #####################nered, a moment of solid foot among #####################that most popular letter. And, THE # # #PRESIDENT reflected, she was blind. # # #So the primacy must be elsewhere, # # #perhaps in the style of the world # ## #itself - a style that owed to classi- # #### #cal logic and its tradition. The name ## ##Aristotle came to mind as all three, #### ####Julu, Jennifer, and THE PRESIDENT #### ### ######lept fearfully onto the S. THE PRESIDENT # ### ##thought, climbing up, it was not so # ### #much the organization of the world, # ### #but its robustness in the face of # #### #continuous decouplings, linkages # #### ##breaking down in the midst of the ########## ####landscape of the symbolic. All ready ###### # #leaping onto the I, as he continued, #####################Jennifer shuddering, unable to speak, #####################only to scrawl letters with her one # #good hand. Leaving the I or ego, they # #moved onto the D, the darkness also of #####################the symbolic. Beyond the robustness #####################must be chains, linkages from small to # #large, holding the subatomic in place # #while the world, more vast than any ## #cosmos, occurs above the quarks and # ##their constituents. All three almost ### ###tripped, following the complex train of ################thought in relation to the robust, of ############which they'd heard nothing. Jump Jennifer! # #and back onto the familiar E they were #####################indeed, holding their own. What can #####################anyone say beyond this, asked Julu, # # #knowing full well there was no answer # # #at all as language and world appeared, # # #but only appeared, to descend into # ## #complete chaos. Cure me, cried Jennifer, # #### #her vision gone, crawling across the ## ##letters like a foreign landscape, but #### ####the only landscape at all. That's it! # #shouted THE PRESIDENT, be careful now, #####################we're on an N, the landscape which is # ###foreign is the only landscape there is; ######we're faced with alterity from the very #######midst of the self. They began their long #######descent. And between alterity and robustness #######which conceals alterity, therein lies culture. #######Please oh god help me, cried Jennifer; watch it! ###### #said Julu, this N is difficult, and we #####################are almost off. Now just a slight jump, ####and they were on the final letter. Julu ###asked, please I beg you, THE PRESIDENT #was silent; the question about the pri- # #macy of the world had been solved. I #####################will be your eyes, Jennifer, said Julu. #####################You are both cleared of any wrongdoing, # #said THE PRESIDENT, and are free to go. #I'm blind, wept Jennifer. You are inno- #cent, said THE PRESIDENT, that should ####be sufficient. We are all equally alive. hack ./hack .banner THE PRESIDENT ./banner THE PRESIDENT ./banner -30 THE PRESIDENT ./banner -w 30 THE PRESIDENT ./banner -w THE PRESIDENT > ~/zz ./banner -w 30 THE PRESIDENT > ~/zz ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:17:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Frank O'Hara/Rauschenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recently I went to Los Angeles=92 Museum of Contemporary Art to see, =93In=20 Memory of My Feelings,=94 a delightful show (up through November 14) that=20 features many, what might be called =93cozy=94 collaborations between Frank=20 O=92Hara and the artists in his life (Larry Rivers, Alfred Leslie, Jasper=20 Johns, Alex Katz, Michael Goldberg, Grace Hartigan, Elaine de Kooning, Joe=20 Brainard and several others). Then I went next door see Alex Katz=20 interviewed on stage by Raymond Ferguson, the curator of the show.=20 Katz is rather wonderful in remembering his experience - in the=20 mid-nineteen fifties - of becoming a figurative painter in opposition to=20 abstraction. =93When the opposition tries to cow you, that=92s the time to s= tick=20 out your elbow and stick with your stuff.=94 And his wry rendering of O=92Ha= ra in=20 the mode of MOMA curator (a non-stop talking, whiskey priest ) put the poet=20 up on his feet Unlike most of the artists in the show, however, my sense now is that th= e=20 artist closest to O=92Hara - in vision and process - was actually Robert=20 Raushenberg. The =93Feelings=94 exhibit revels in work that was made in inti= mate=20 responses to O=92Hara=92s person - but, in that way, though wonderful, it is= =20 simultaneously limited. One gets a strong sense of how these artists loved=20 his presence and art and texts are full evidence of the sometimes ingenious=20 ways they often collaboratively engaged, enlarged and enhanced those - Joe=20 Brainard and Larry Rivers perhaps most strongly. Yet, when I crossed over to the Museum=92s permanent collection and ente= red=20 a room full of Raushenberg assemblages, the work in the O=92Hara show became= =20 suddenly secondary, or comparatively private. Both O=92Hara and Rauschenberg= =20 share an epic, joyous, and ambitious pleasure in making an enormous collage=20 of the whole disparate phenomena of the 50=92s American eye, particularly as= it=20 opened to the globe, and the way the globe began to impinge particularly on=20 New York City - turning what Katz called a then provincial metropolis into a= n=20 international capital - a place no longer just impacted by the outside, but=20 throwing its emergent post-war power back over and around the world. It=92s=20= as=20 if Rauschenberg=92s and O=92Hara=92s work both took William Carlos Williams= =92=20 aesthetic - his obsession with local materials - and transformed that=20 relatively small town mode into the gleeful acquisition of any material, no=20 matter its global origin or disparate source (street concrete or tele-media)= ,=20 and made it appropriate to either poem or artwork. Ideas in all things.=20 Things in all ideas. A prophetic honeymoon - done not without irony - with=20 Empire. In fact I suspect a parallel reading of both R and O=92s work (visu= al=20 and textual) in that same period will end up being much more rewarding than=20 the more immediate, personal delights of the L.A. show. (I have not read a=20 great deal of the critical lit on O=92Hara, but maybe this association with=20 Rauschenberg=92s work has already been developed?) The show, by the way, carries a well produced catalog with a very=20 readable, seemingly well informed essay by Ferguson, and many reproductions=20 of the work by the artists. Unfortunately the show will only travel (I=20 believe) to a museum on Long Island (which is not listed in the catalog).=20 Why not New York City is a mystery.=20 Cheers, Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:50:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Giles Scott Subject: Re: ping pong In-Reply-To: <007901bf1c00$b6e80560$c2e36dcb@oga> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The poem is by Eugen Gomringer, though the original has an extra line, and the spacing is everything, ping pong ping pong ping pong ping pong ping pong Sincerely David Giles Scott On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Peter Fogarty wrote: > ping pong > pong ping pong > ping pong > > > or something like that? Who wrote it? It has been stuck in my head for the > last three days and I can't account for its arrival except that I read it > somewhere in the last two weeks and it stuck. > > Regards, > peter > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:34:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression (OR, in defense of reading) In-Reply-To: <19991021205503.25599.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I largely agree with the (implicit) assertion here that Mark's dismissal of Alan Sondheim's work without benefit of anything close to a reading constitutes a problem for the kind of reasoned "restraint" or "self-control" he advocates re: Alan's postings. At the same time, however, the urge to up the ante with this: this type of censorship is what keeps newspapers and televisions full of doodoo, full of propaganda. I think the NYT might have a job for you! ..ends up moving in much the same direction - i.e., a collapsing of meaningful distinctions in favor of a rhetoric of dismissive outrage, bemusement, etc. Calls for "discursive protocol" articulated by individuals without access to the immense, consolidated social surplus of, say, the Times simply are not the same thing as the systemic and systematic distortion of knowledge by capital. Now if you were to say that at times that very individual rush to dismiss has been one of the many vectors along which Times-style distortion has operated, I'd certainly be with you. But media monopolies have ways of enforcing, cajoling, etc., such behaviors from their writers and readers that go far beyond the very general "making folks feel bad," which seems to be about the greatest level of social violence listees can muster in their conflicts. Again, not to say that isn't a problem - at the risk of adding my voice to the calls for restraint, could we perhaps make sure to read each other, and be willing to articulate that reading out in the open, before resorting to dismissal out-of-hand? Obviously, there are cases of personal attack, "flaming," etc., in which the dismissive virtual sneer, rather than the time-consuming response to an interlocutor who isn't going to bother with a response anyhow, might be a useful option. But it seems to me we're a long way off from that in Alan's writings, which interrogate the language(s) of this list (well or badly [usefully or not?] is for a closer reading to decide - though as a minor publisher of his work, I obviously have my intellectual investments here), rather than simply attack them in the "I-can-shout-over-a-DSL-line-louder-than-you" mode. We've seen the latter here before, so I'm guessing we know what it looks like. That said, however, and without knowing Mark P., I'd give 10 to 1 odds to anyone here that he doesn't have the weight of capital accumulation behind him to come up to the level of the Times as an ideological "power." (And in almost every instance, his ideological work on the list, when based on a careful engagement, has been pretty well opposed to the practices of that gray bastion of yellow journalism - my thanks, in general, for his presence in this space). Hell, I doubt any of us here even rate a defunct Hearst rag limping toward the inglorious end of a short-con joint operating agreement. It might benefit us, though, to make a principled distinction between our practices and theirs - a little more care and attention on both sides of this argument, perhaps? Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Patrick Herron Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 1:55 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression >AS's work is often weak, diffuse, silly, and its extreme frequency on the list has led at least a half-dozen people i know to find new meaning in the phrase, "delete, don't read." Mack, er, Mark, you have a very bright critical career ahead of you. Pass the sunglasses and roll out the red carpet! Get me a seat on Air Force One! Feel the authoritative upholstery! Turn down the lights!: ) Gee, maybe I should show some good ol' RESTRAINT. Ahh, fuck that. >in my scheme of poetic things AS isn't huge or important or terribly >exciting... And I feel priveleged to learn of his lack of importance from you. : ) Can you send me that scheme? The poetics of schemata, the schematics of poetry. How poetic. Kinda like instructions on building a television. I was just building a poem from scratch yesterday, some wires, some wood, some capacitors, resistors, and was looking for a good schematic. Maybe i need to head to Hotlanta to find them? Joe's Poetry Schematics Shop down there by Five Points? : ) >But Dan was indeed (as he suggests) expressing the feelings of *quite a >few* people on the list. And i feel he is right to point out that the >responses to him were a little too quick and too thoughtless: he was not >calling for censorship. actually, he he seemed to be advocating a particular form of censorship - self-censorship. self-censorship from threats. like of being labelled a crap artist. this type of censorship is what keeps newspapers and televisions full of doodoo, full of propaganda. I think the NYT might have a job for you! : ) : ) : ) smiling happy faces! : ) : ) : ) I hope this was too quick and too thoughtless. Let's have my lawyer and your lawyer do lunch. in case your flame spreads, or "blooms," as you call it. the market force of criticism = CONTROVERSY. good work. A+. : ) if we cannot laugh we can count ourselves doomed to the same thing we have always been doomed to anyway. Bloomin', : ) Patrick ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:01:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Judy Schwartz Subject: Re: Treat Your Trick!! Poetry @ BORDERS, Mon., Oct. 25: A-A WIGHT & ML POLAK In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, George Bowering wrote: > I have been to 1727 Walnut Street, just yesterday, and it is a pure > residential street, no book stores there at all. > > >poetry at borders > >1727 walnut street > >monday, october 25, at 7:30 sharp Must be thinking of the wrong city. This is the address of the Borders in Philadelphia. --Judy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:23:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: upcoming readings at the Poetry Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Next week at the Poetry Project: Monday, October 25 at 8 pm Lourdes Vazquez & J.L. Jacobs Lourdes Vazquez=B9s books include Marina: A Biography of Marina = Arzola, La Rosa Mecanica: Prose and Poetry and, forthcoming, Cuentos = de Purgalcito, a book of short stories to be published by Ediciones = Cultural. J.L. Jacobs's first book of poetry, The Leaves in Her = Shoes, was published by Lost Roads Publishers this year. Wednesday, October 27 at 8 pm John Keene is the author of Annotations (New Directions). He has held = fellowships at Yaddo and Bread Loaf and was a Cave Canem Poetry = Workshop Fellow in 1999. Barbara Henning is the author of Love Makes = Thinking Dark and the former editor of Long News in the Short Century. Friday, October 29 at 10:30 pm Love is a Bad Neighborhood A choreopoem by poet and playwright Francine Witte, with performances = by poets Ken Thompson, Faye Armon, and Julian Rozzell. Poet and comic = Mark Larsen will open the evening with a short reading of his own = work. And don't forget: tonight, the Outlaw Bible of American Poetry. It'll = be a zoo! 45 contributors being rebels! Copies of this 673-page = anthology will be on sale. No advance tickets. Doors open at 10:15 pm. Admission to the events are $7, $4 for students and seniors. Project events are wheelchair accessible with advance notice: call = (212) 674-0910. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of = 2nd Ave. and 10th St. in Manhattan, NYC For more information on our upcoming events, visit our website at http://www.poetryproject.com If you would like to be removed from our e-mail list, please respond = to this message with the note: remove me from your list, please. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:09:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Fwd To The Poetry Republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems lately with all the attacks and all meanings far transcend the mere words For example, insights into the way in which a group and its members see or define themselves can often be found in the root metaphors used in exchanges. I enjoy A.S's prolonged engagement, his persistence, his investment of sufficient time, and in watching all the all I am learning much about our community's culture, testing all the while misinterpretations of information, ob- servations: Since on the list no one knows they are poets... --Gerald ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:31:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: DH: October 23: CARLA HARRYMAN, ALYSTYRE JULIAN In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i doubt that this is in San Francisco, and my request will reveal my utter unhipness w/r/t the many poetry scenes represented here, but in what city is this reading (other than in the Eliotic/Baudelairean unreal city) happening (happening)? salut, robert Robert Corbett "you are there beyond/ tracings flesh can rcor@u.washington.edu take,/ and farther away surrounding and University of Washington informing the systems" - A.R. Ammons On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Katherine Lederer wrote: > Segue @ Double happiness > Saturdays from 4:00 to 6:00 pm. > Readings begin punctually. Double Happiness > is located at 173 Mott Street, just south > of Broome. A 4$ contribution goes to > the readers. > > October 23: CARLA HARRYMAN, ALYSTYRE JULIAN > CARLA HARRYMAN is the author of ten books of prose, > plays, poetry and essays including a novel, The Words: > after Carl Sandburg's Rootabaga and Jean-Paul Sartre > (O Books, Berkeley, 1999) and a volume of new and > selected prose, There Never Was a Rose Without a > Thorn (City Lights, 1995). She is currently working > on a second novel, Gardener of Stars, and is engaged > in the restaging of a chamber opera. She lives > and teaches in Detroit. > > ALYSTYRE JULIAN is a poet and yoga teacher who lives > in NYC. She has collaborated on a short film with Lee > Ann Brown and has work in the current Chain. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:00:44 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Owen Hill Subject: AK Press Party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Charming Event: Another book party from Moe's in Berkeley, this one for AK Press: Craig O'Hara will read from Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise, and Gee Voucher, author of Crass Art and Other Pre Post-Modernist Monsters will read (perform? appear? we're still not sure). Sunday Oct 31st, 2-4pm on the Moe's Books patio, 2476 Telegraph Ave., Berkeley Ca. (510) 649-0477. Owen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:44:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: On Number-Systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (This illustrates what I mean by a poetics of the world.) On Number-Systems "And reading Knuth on number-base systems which include, for example a ternary system with +1, -1, and 0 as the symbols. Such systems can absorb the positive and negative numbers; there are others, such as ones based on 2i, that can absorb the complex number system as well (i.e. a single num- ber of the form ax^n + bx^(n-1) ... +dx^1 +e). This is an amazing economy of means. The book is my favorite in the Knuth programming series - the volume on Seminumerical Algorithms - since it goes into the construct of arithmetic processes and algorithms we all take for granted. In my own work, I've always been fascinated by the possibility of base-1 and base- infinity systems; in the former, of course, addition becomes concatena- tion, and in the latter, the addition of any two unique symbols results in a third, i.e. J + K = L. There's an easy translation from the decimal sys- tem; say 25 * 26 = 650 - one would just look up within the infinite multi- plication table, [25] and [26] and see [650] where the [x] represents the unique symbol. One goes from algorithms to infinite memorization or look- up. The phenomenology of this is really interesting, I think. For multip- lication with base-1, one returns again to concatenation, for example 1111 * 111 = 111 111 111 111 which is the same as 4 * 3 = 12. There's nothing to learn in terms of memorization or lookup tables here; there's nothing to look up or memorize. Think of this as an infinite abacus of sticks placed in a single row; one moves from base-infinity with its pure economy of place and infinite symbols, to base-one with its pure economy of symbol and infinite place. This material is fascinating; it says something about the stability of the world itself, the Aristotelian logic at the heart of the almost-disconnected plateau of the life-world. I wrote years ago ex- tensively on such phenomenologies; it's great to see the structures them- selves in Knuth."* To place sticks in the row, letters in a row, one counts (literally) on the stability of place and demarcation - _these_ sticks are counted - _those_ remain unaccounted-for and uncounted. The sticks need not be in a row; there's no need for geometry, positioning, since what one is concerned with is the pure quantity of sticks, not a positional relationship. Interestingly, positionality also disappears with base-infinity, since every operation and quantity involves only _one_ pos- ition. In The Matrix, there is considerable discussion about "who is the One" - in base-one, everyone is, and in base-infinity, whatever is _there_ is the one. What is going on here? On one hand, with base-one, there is the fact and phenomenology of _substance_ and the quantifiability and stability of the world; on the other, with base-infinity, there is the problematic of the proper name in the Kripkean sense of rigid designator. In the former, names shift towards processes; in the latter, processes harden as names. One might also consider issues of perception: exactly what constitutes a stick or a symbol? Could, for example, two trees represent 2541 and 1734, a third representing 2541^1734 base-infinity? Is all of nature, in fact, the mathematics of base-infinity write large? At the other end, what might one say about typification, standardization: What constitutes a stick and what doesn't? Sticks are related to tallying, of course; they are indexi- cal in relation to the quantification of the real, a one-to-one relation- ship with other physical objects. On the other hand one might consider the base-infinity symbols both symbolic (standing-for quantity as proper names or summarizations) and "quasi-ikonic," the coagulation of quantity itself as unary. And there are issues of memory: _Where_ is the place of counting - which sticks have already been marked, which remain unmarked? This depends not only on the stability of place, but our knowledge of place as well. Since base-infinity relies on individuated symbols, place, even the place of _announcement,_ becomes less relevant; memory of place is replaced by symbol memory: 2541^1734 = [2541^1734] Between base-one and base-infinity, the structure and variety of the world appear - not the infinite and obdurate variety of base-infinity, nor the pure quantifications of base-one, but gatherings, foreclosings, metaphors and metonymies. It's at the limits that nature becomes simultaneously mute and revelatory; in-between it's all culture and our image writ large, rubbed against the structure of the world. Word: re-ers Guess: Sorry, the word was "refers" Another word? *from http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/diary/diary.txt. _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:48:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: This was MY list! ( is "up with down!" ? ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain stephen & { p o e t i x } in the earlier "up with down" post, i pulled out the ~seriousness~ and wove it in with what i was doing but had some misgiving in that many of the other questions brought up there seemed much better, more pertinent etc, but i simply had no answers to them, nor any clues really but of what you've said most recently "Yes! More! (of anything!)" i wd gladly second ---- serious about play ---- playfully serious ---- but i'm drifting a bit you wrote; "But what I want to get at (...) is some sense that the "world" (of poetry) seems very much caught up in the sense of itself as a business. Sure, it's an exchange, but given the hierarchical nature of who's who, how "free" can the exzchange ever get to be?" how free do we want it ? i remember waxing on to kent johnson a year or more ago in a post-yasusada dream wherein i was envisioning a poetry world where no one knew who anyone was and everything was submitted and published anonymously --- i'd said that the yasusada business was a start but that it really only displaced the author-function and that as long as kent was identified with the book he wd get stuck with the bag (A-funct.) and that perhaps something more radical, more ultimately leveling was needed but yr point is in our world and i've heard a lot of griping from poets of all stripes about in-groups and favors and this and that and it bothers me --- it bothers me such that i am in point of fact planning to take an extended break from poetry writing and this list probably as soon as i get the two manuscripts i'm working on and the few other obligations out of the way ---- i'm overstating that somewhat, making it more dramatic than it is, and there are other reasons why i'm going on something of a sabatical from this "biz" in 2000 (back to music and into visual art) so what do we do ? yr asking great questions --- and, by the header of yr post, asking me, but i truly don't know one thought tho : is the poetry world any more or less questionable than the non-poetry world ? i'm trying to be playful here but i doubt it's coming across, that it's there ultimately (cue the "hollow laugh") )L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:07:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: trochee, anapest (was "within/without" poetry) Comments: cc: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain alan, { p o e t i x } you wrote; "It's not that I have a "very clear" idea of what's within or without - in fact, just the opposite. What seems to be the case (with numerous exceptions including the post I'm replying to) is that a kind of rational discourse is taken as normative here; then there are the poems, the experiments, and poeticized replies to the discourse. And I think there might be other ways to discuss poetics, which at least for me goes beyond poetry to the flesh and bones of language and the symbolic, in a way that normative prose doesn't." and i don't mean to be too argumentative on this score but i would like to say that i think that i am at least am generally rational and, with certain qualifications, in *favor* of reason --- that is i just don't buy the division of us up into rational/irrational ---- with anything called rational meant to be about as immediate as a tax return and as evocative as an hour long lecture on deduction begining and ending with socrates as a mortal --- but even logic is a lot more interesting and loose (yes, i said loose) if one spends a bit of time with it --- peirce's third type of inference "abduction" (also called "retroduction") which encompasses hunches and guesses and intuitions in a framework where one can actually talk about them rather than ushering them behind the curtain, dimming the lights and playing unconscious theme music one more time i'd rather see poetry as "the language art" (antin's phrase) and thus potentially encompassing all the things you mention above including that which it does seem that you still wish, if not to exclude, to deal with less; "rational ________" (pick yr designation) and here is a sonnet that i've composed as a coda to this whole business --- may it sooth the hearts of many iamb, iamb dactyl anapest iamb trochee trochee? iamb anapest iamb anapest anapest iamb, dactyl anapest. trochee, trochee, iamb dactyl iamb. anapest iamb dactyl iamb anapest, trochee iamb trochee dactyl anapest? dactyl iamb trochee iamb iamb, iamb iamb. iamb trochee iamb. trochee? trochee. iamb anapest iamb anapest iamb dactyl iamb anapest trochee iamb anapest iamb iamb iamb iamb iamb trochee iamb sondheim raphael raphael sondheim iamb raphael sondheim raphael sondheim iamb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:47:37 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Dorow Subject: Re: ping pong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I may be wrong, but I think it was Eugen Gomringer probably in "Die Konstellationen - las constelaciones - les constellations - the constellations", Gomringer Press Frauenfeld 1965. I´m pretty sure it was Gomringer, actually. It couldn´t have been anyone else, really. It could have been Jandl in "Serienfuss", but it isn´t. It was Gomringer. And if it wasn´t him, it was someone else, but Gomringer led the way. There is some of his work online on ubuweb. If it wasn´t Gomringer, there is a minor chance of it being Franz Mon. It couldn´t have been Heissenbüttel, no way. Mon or Gomringer, not Jandl or Heissenbüttel. Actually, it was Gomringer. Ping. Thomas Dorow (Pong) ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Fogarty To: Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 10:13 PM Subject: ping pong > ping pong > pong ping pong > ping pong > > > or something like that? Who wrote it? It has been stuck in my head for the > last three days and I can't account for its arrival except that I read it > somewhere in the last two weeks and it stuck. > > Regards, > peter > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:14:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: trochee, anapest (was "within/without" poetry) Comments: To: "Lowther, John" In-Reply-To: <5D5C5C8C3A41D211893900A024D4B97C983F90@md2.facstaff.oglethorpe.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm tempted to write, did He who made the iamb make thee? But I'm not sure where that goes. On a more serious note, if you noticed, I never used the word "irrational" or create a binary opposition as such; I was referring to nothing more than the use of prose or prosaic or ordinary language such as this, in relation to other forms which might also problematize such language, your sonnet being an example. Alan Internet Text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:18:03 -0400 Reply-To: mcx@bellatlantic.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael corbin Subject: Re: undertaker please drive slow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit circle be unbroken http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-10/22/116l-102299-idx.html http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-10/22/062l-102299-idx.html byeandbye mc ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:11:40 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Dorow Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit These threads, one of them threatening Alan with censorship or begging for support of censorship or whatever, the other about a kind of "the boys in the band"-style regionalism and demographic query totally ignoring that this list is not only read or used by Americans, border upon the same issue for me. I love Alan´s posts. I came to the list to find out more about a poetic tradition and a tradition of discussing poetics, that appeared to be very much alive, quite contrary to what I experience on the german academic and avantgarde scene, where there is basically one (print) magazine (Das Schreibheft) that caters to the needs of those who believe that poetry develops its content through form and does not make statements about something it already knows, or uses forms that are already known and accepted to make statements that are as well. (Most poems dealing with travel are excellent examples for this reactionary function of a form-content coherency that is a priori d´accord, the exotic setting providing the "newness" necessary to sell bullshit and lies as art.) I love Alan´s postings because they are daring, they always are, they are so fast it can be annoying and makes my head spin how fast Alan writes, watching his speed on "trace" speeds up the spin even more. Alan´s posts are always in danger of falling back on themselves, always in danger of failing of being ridiculous of breaking. They are fragile and tentative, they don´t live in Alabama, where it is probably lovely, I don´t mind regionalism, mind you, there are excellent works drawing on minority languages around, very regionalist, very provoking to the mainstream use of language. Andrea Zanzotto is one example, Ernst Jandl another, H.C. Artmann, Reinhardt Priessnitz, Thomas Kling, to name a few Italian, Austrian and German poets who have worked or are working in this field. I love Alan´s postings. They are what poetry and poetics should be. They break my heart at times, they get me pissed at other times. I may disagree with him on Heiner Müller and his postings on Stalinism may get on my nerves and drive me up the wall, but poetry is not about agreement (that´s so pretty). Poetics can (perhaps) be discussed from the "outside" of poetry, but there is no way to a poetry that does not encorporate it´s poetic reflections, which is always a reflection on cognition, in its form. Alan´s postings, his writing through the avatars Jennifer, Julu, Alan and Nikuko are highly reflected and reflexive texts on poetics, subjectivity and writing, very passionate and dangerous, little bombs, some go off, others don´t, not just now, not now, perhaps later. Allright, now about regionalism. Poetry doesn´t travel well. Poetry is a national pasttime. Poetry is american, southern, northern, bostonian, english (and all of this is still in English). If Poetry wants to travel, it needs translation, and translations don´t travel well, either. I walked into one of the best Berlin bookstores yesterday and asked about Jack Spicer, guess what the reaction was, and I wasn´t even asking for a translation. It will take months until I can lay my hand on a book, and it took this list to get me to know about Spicer in the first place. Try asking for Reinhard Priessnitz in Boston. Poetry doesn´t travel well, but when it does, the effects are often amazing, I´m thinking of Apollinaire reading Brentano, of Pound reading the Veda, of Duschamp in New York, of Brinkmann reading O´Hara etc. It may be just a funny coincidence, but Alan is one of the very few subscribers to this list, who even mentioned someone who didn´t publish in english. It´s not a coincidence. Love, Thomas Dorow ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:35:09 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: sondheim/raphael Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i'm feeling annoyed and disturbed enough over the minor 'raphael on sondheim' strain that i have to chirp up: i work hard to appreciate others' opinions, working especially hard to appreciate ~opioniated~ people (the more blooming flowers the better) but that there seems to be a consistent, underlying, shared opinion that there is such a thing as too little too much, too little enough publishing/broadcasting/ultimately sharing of poetry strikes me as...outrageous--after all this is poetry! the fact that this list, although theoretically democratic in nature (being online) and international in its concerns and subscribers, has ~only~ 500 (or so!) subscribers--and that, for example, only a tiny fraction of whom comprise the second majority (Canadian)--to me points precisely towards why readers and educators and publishers so consistently shy away from contemporary poetry. but maybe i'm being a little too romantic here? Lori Emerson Mark Prejesnar wrote: Now, i think AS's work >is sometimes energetic, interesting, provocative, and complex, also. Not >as much as i'd like..and he sure does (as DR suggests) publish (including >this list as a form of publication) far more than maybe he should. But, >yeah, it is helpful to be acquainted with his work... i'm afraid Kent >Johnson's extreme enthusiasm is a bit over the top; in my scheme of poetic >things AS isn't huge or important or terribly exciting... > >But Dan was indeed (as he suggests) expressing the feelings of *quite a >few* people on the list. And i feel he is right to point out that the >responses to him were a little too quick and too thoughtless: he was not >calling for censorship. > >So, as he says below: let 80 flowers bloom...... > >mark prejsnar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 01:11:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: Bridge Street Readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fall readings at Bridge Street October 24 Tina Darragh & Joan Retallack November 14 Lisa Jarnot & Mark McMorris November 28 Krupskaya reading: Dan Farrell, Liz Fodaski, & P. Inman December 5 Carla Harryman All Sundays @ 8 PM Bridge Street Books 2814 Pennsylvania Ave NW Washington, DC 5 blocks from Foggy Bottom Metro, next to Four Seasons in Georgetown. ph 202 965 5200. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:49:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Small Press Publications List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This week's Small Press Publications List @ Duration Press is now online. http://www.durationpress.com I would like to thank the various publishers whose participation in this project has made it possible, & hope that it is proving valuable to some readers out there. Jerrold ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:01:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: (won't you take me to) POETRY CITY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New York's last free reading series invites you to partake of the hubbub 10 28 Bill Zavatsky Daniel Kane 11 4 Adeena Karasick Sam Truitt 11 11 ** BOOK PARTY _Dig and Delve_ by Larry Fagin and Trevor Winkfield from Granary Books 12 2 Anna van Lenten Bowman Hastie Annie Gwynne-Vaughan 12 9 Los Panfleteros *Jesus Papoleto Melendez *The Reverend Pedro Pietri *Stefanie Agosto *Rodrigo Ernie Ortiz III 12 16 Darlene Gold Catherine Barnett 12 22 ** BOOK PARTY WEDNESDAY _Midwinter Day_ by Bernadette Mayer reprinted by New Directions Free Thursdays at 7 (except for Bernadette) Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West, 7th Floor 212 691 6590 . info@twc.org Poetry City is hosted by Jordan Davis and Anna Malmude, and is sponsored by the New York State Council for the Arts. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:49:58 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ward Tietz Subject: Re: ping pong In-Reply-To: <007901bf1c00$b6e80560$c2e36dcb@oga> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >ping pong > pong ping pong > ping pong > > >or something like that? Who wrote it? It has been stuck in my head for the >last three days and I can't account for its arrival except that I read it >somewhere in the last two weeks and it stuck. > >Regards, >peter It's by Eugen Gomringer. ping pong ping pong ping pong ping pong ping pong is the way it goes, I think. You'll find it in Gomringer's "von rand nach innen; die konstellationen 1951-1995." It's also in Mary Ellen Solt's "Concrete Poetry: A World View." WT ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:46:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Jed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have the email address for Jed Rasula? Thanks very much, Louis ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:52:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: ashbery flummox; yo lori emerson In-Reply-To: <199910230023.UAA21190@nico.bway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" yo lori emerson! i forwarded your msg to my colleague but the attatchment didn't forward. sorry everyone for doing this on POETIX, but i erased lori's msg so don't have her direct address. lori wd you mind e-ing your attatchment directly to raley@tc.umn.edu??? thanks, and thanks to all who responded to the ashbery query ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:33:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: the "biz" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } stephen ellis wrote; that the "world" (of poetry) seems very much caught up in the sense of itself as a business i started thinking again about this and am perhaps getting more confused as i go on --- i've done these magazines and lost heaps of money and have another in the can waiting and waiting and weighing on me that i can't afford to pub it yet --- and i make no money on these things it all goes out really, but that doesnt discount being a business, right ? i mean there are plenty of things we call businesses that lose money so that can't be the dividing line but maybe it can still ? that is businesses are at least concerned to make money even if they lose it and i never expect to make any ---- or leave the magazine publishing thing behind ---- i don't expect to make any money of being a poet, i suppose i cd, i cd win a contest and get a book published and win some $ but enough to think of my writing as a business ? so skip money, maybe what yr saying isnt about cash but clout ? capital in that sense ? where we hope to get pubbed in the chicago review or the gertrude stein awards or win the national poetries series competition b/c "it'll open doors" us ? is that the "business" which you mean ? ---- i'm reminded of something someone told me about going to a reading and the young poet who was reading that night marched up introduced themself to everyone and was later heard to say "I LOVE NETWORKING!" ---- is that the same sort of "business" ? admittedly, i like meeting poets ---- my trip to LA last year was a blast and i look forward to new orleans next month ---- and i wd be mightily pleased to win the national poetry series and have a bit of hope that my work might get read or find it's way into places it won't if i end up publishing it myself where does it start being the "business" ? when i start hoping that other contest winners DONT win as it wd affect me negatively ? when i start schmoozing and playing for favor with editors i don't like b/c it wd "do me good" ? i think those things should qualify for the "biz" which i wd wish to combat which it wd suck to step into but i'm left feeling that while i understand, i think, the thrust of yr statement stephen, and too, see myself the businessy behavior now and again, that i DONT think of poetry as a business or the poetry world as business community ---- that doing so seems somehow a self-blinding conflictedly )L p.s. shit, more *seriousness* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:07:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Jackson Mac Low / Kerr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: Douglas Charles Kerr Date: 10/23/99 9:09 PM -0700 Greetings, I am in search of material on and by Jackson Mac Low. There is material here at Stanford but I'm sure that there is work that I can't find. Perhaps this could lead to an annotated bibliography of some sort. My project of the moment is a seminar paper on his Light poems. How do I make a post? thanks, Douglas Kerr ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:29:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: reading oct. 26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the record, this sparsely published poet, Louis Cabri, will be reading in Vancouver, Canada, Oct. 26, 8 pm, at 750 Burrard St (Robson Central) along with Jacqueline Turner. Set your watches. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:05:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Azure's Love of Jennifer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Azure's Love of Jennifer "If the 19th century was, and I for one am thoroughly convinced that it was, concerned with origins, then the present century is an era that has increasingly looked for roots. A quest for origins and a search for roots are not the same and not to be confused. The quest for origins focuses on 'whatness,' while the search for roots focuses on 'whoness.' The issue of origins is typically centered around natural ancestry, and Darwin provided the brand name for his age. In contrast, the quest for roots is essential- ly concerned with probing a cultural heritage, defining the fibres of an ethnicity, mapping ideational stratigraphies. The origins issue is charac- teristically a biological matter, while that of roots is generally intel- lectual in scope." (from Thomas Markey, welcome remarks to the Bellagio conference, 1988, When Cultures Collide: The Indo-Europeans and Pre-Indo- Europeans.) Thus said, when I seek for the origin of Jennifer, and I do, I may look no farther than "Jennifer, Where are you?," a resonant film by Leslie Thornton produced in 1981. But I may look likewise to my mother Jennifer Sondheim, my daughter Jennifer Sondheim, my sister Jennifer Sond- heim. I may look to my roots, my cultural heritage among the tribe of Jennifers, who, like the tribe of Alans, wreaked havoc in Europe and the British Isles. For Jennifer is neither root nor rhizome, but bundles and sheaves of tendrils, glistening with moisture, sliding across lovers and bodies, dreams and texts, words pouring out of mouths, tongues sliding in. Think of the beautiful skein of the world in the form of tendril interlac- ings; if the 1970s and 1980s were concerned with grids, the 1990s and 2000s are concerned with tendrils lazily pooling among wetware components, as if there were shudderings across the webs and nets of meristemating roots. Jennifer moves blindly among open cracks, holes, leaks, seepages in the real and the programming of the real; the real moves blindly among her openings as well. When my eyes are closed, when Azure is above me, when my tongue devours her fluids, her skin, the delicacy of her eyes, when her tongue devours my fluids, my skin, the delicacy of my eyes, it is the uni- cellular layer of Jennifer that coheres the real between us, ensures our return to language. Jennifer is the bruising of the world, its contusions, as one moves clumsily among the things and thoughts of the world. So how could she be the unicellular layer, tendrils, and bruisings, all at once? Because it is the surface and the inscribing of the surface that ruins the most; and it's the unicellular layer of Jennifer that defines the space between us; and it's the tendrils of Jennifer which unicellular- ly search out the crevices between my lover and myself; and it's the bruising of my skin and breasts and necks that murmurs Jennifer! Jennifer; and it's the unicellular layer of tendrils of Jennifer that mark our his- tory on mattress, sheets, rooms, provinces, and worlds of my love and me; and it's "JENNIFER!" Azure cries in her sleep, her naked body reaching out everywhere in the room, looking for imaginary origins, shattering imagin- ary roots. M V H N L V .N V . R NL L N L V .V F FL V L .V F F L R H .N - VH .V F L L L V NV J 6 % __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:22:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: Numbered Suggests (was "This is MY list!") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/22/99 10:01:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stepellis@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << I think I smell something up ahead that curiously resembles absence. - S E >> You might be smelling me. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:24:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: BOO 7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tenney and all, BOO 7 includes the discussion I organized and transcript I edited with Harryette Mullen, Steve McCaffery, and others. I had invited Harryette up to Calgary to give a talk, a reading, and to participate on a panel in 1996, for which Jeff Derksen and I gave Harryette and Steve ten questions. They did not have time to answer the questions, but they asked their own and the discussion is good. In any case, Deanna Ferguson, one of the eds of BOO (a mag now defunct), still has plenty copies of #7. She can be reached at lounge@netsign.com If someone wants to put this interview/discussion up on the web, please let me know! I think it's worth doing. On Mullen (but this info is ca. '97 and I don't have recent), there's also an interview Magee & co. did in Combo 1. Also a Callaloo is devoted to her work. Elizabeth Frost wrote on Mulllen and Stein. I'm sure there's plenty out there by now. -Louis ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:49:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: Re: generation returns again & again (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:48:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Wallace To: subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu Subject: Re: generation returns again & again Yes, I have to say that I wish I could be pleased to be quoted by Christopher Beach, but I'm really sorry to be so painfully misunderstood. I'm going to post this note to the UBPoetics List also, just so lots of other people know that I find his generational comments foolish; I hope those of you who already wrote about this issue will do the same, since the UB Poetics List for the most part has been filled with kind words for a book that is so dominated by the rigid hierarchies of the worst kind of academic thinking that it's practically unreadable. Notice that the first function of Beach's quote is to DICTATE to poets what their critical frame of reference should be, and secondly to take it as a hierarchical given that poetics, in order to be serious, MUST somehow deal directly with hierarchies Beach himself is creating. Never mind, of course, that the introduction to A POETICS OF CRITICISM more directly addresses itself to the problems of cultural studies and thus does not define itself as limited to some "history of poetry," and never mind the fact that the people in it are NOT defined generationally, unless one assumes that Jerome McGann, Bernadette Mayer and some others are "second generation language poets." Clearly, according to Beach we can't be serious UNLESS we write about Hejinian, Silliman, Perelman, etc--for Beach, there simply can be no other poetic issue than language poetry. His book seems a case in point of the worst kind of politically and literally CONSERVATIVE attempt at canonization, an academic process which Beach wholly and uncritically accepts precisely, one imagines, because that's how he manages to maintain his position in the academic hierarcy which he mistakes for a POETIC hierarchy. Thus the real subtext of the book is how the academic marketplace DEFORMS poetic thinking to meet academic marketplace demands--"here is the field of acceptable poetry to the academy; language poetry can now be defined as academically acceptable; therefore all poetics must speak to it." As usual, of course, this sort of process can only be accomplished by ERASING specific poetries--notice his complete LACK of reference to any specific poetry relative to the "generation" that he himself creates to serve the fictions of his marketplace. He takes several small critical comments by myself and Steve Evans, purposefully misunderstands their context, and creates a whole generation of poets that he then refuses to mention. That he does this in the name of supposedly promoting the value of avant garde poetry is astonishing--in fact the form of his argument, and the fictional historical fields he creates, would be EXACTLY the same sort of thing that Helen Vendler does with a different set of names. Either way, poets lose. Look closely at the issue of who the Christopher Beach book serves. He says nothing in it that the so-called language poets didn't say twenty years ago, and he says it more poorly, in the pale academic prose that is the stock and trade of his marketplace. So clearly it's not a book for poets, since we've heard it all before. Is it a book for language poets? Only if their goal is to be canonized, to become part of the future fictions that academic hierarchies will misname literature. Will it even succeed in creating its new academic hierarchy? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Is it a book for other academic critics to respond to and make other careers out of while erasing the actual histories of poems and poets? No doubt. Will it matter much in the history of literature? Mhy guess is that in two years no one will ever read it again. Mark /----------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | | | mdw@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu | | GWU: | | http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~mdw | | EPC: | | http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/wallace | |____________________________________________________________________________| ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:43:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: name that quote? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Poetics, Another one of my damnable queries. Does anyone recognize the author/source of the following? "A dominant ideological formation is constituted by a relatively coherent set of 'discourses' of values, representations and beliefs which, realised in certain material apparatuses and related to the structures of material production, so reflect the experiential relations of individual subjects to their social conditions as to guarantee those misperceptions of the 'real' which contribute to the reproduction of the dominant social relations" (54). To explain myself, this is jotted down on the back of a work-related document from my former job as a legal proofreader, and through the ravages of time it was separated from information about the source (though I have the page number!). At the time I was making rushed trips to the SF Public Library during my closely-monitored lunch hour, and scooping masses of texts off the shelves to read surreptiously between proofreading assignments (and therefore feed my brain and avoid the constant temptation to jump off a bridge). Trying to remember my reading at the time, I know Terry Eagleton was involved (note British spellings). Please backchannel kathylou@worldnet.att.net This will be *very* helpful to me, and I'll send my first-born child or a copy of Lipstick Eleven to show my gratitude! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:53:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT An Admonition (for Mark Prejsnar and the Atlanta Poetry Group) F=R=A=M=E=D=P=A=I=N=T=I=N=G=S=I=N=T=H=E=M=O=M=A ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:58:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Poem #2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT An Old Worrying (for Alan Sondheim) Towards what is the earthwork spiralling? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:18:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: name that quote? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy Lou Schultz - the quotation sounds like Althusser but doesn't read like Althusser, if that makes any sense. Eagleton or perhaps Perry Anderson would be a good bet; I could almost see it as Jameson of The Political Unconscious but for the spelling. Chris % Christopher W. Alexander % poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:35:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: juliana spahr Subject: new from subpress: edwin torres, fractured humorous MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit the ramifications of this <*inner*> playground manifest themselves with every fantasy I denude myself in now naked in my fracture <*deluded nudist manufactured*> <*tracked in rapture*> the fracturist soars above the mend aware of what needs to meet to make the heal complete subpress is very happy to bring you --------------- FRACTURED HUMOROUS by Edwin Torres --------------------------------- Best known for his traveled-the-world-over performance art, Edwin Torres’s presence in print is unparalleled in its vibrancy. FRACTURED HUMOROUS is contagious in its energy and humor, stunning in its turns, convincing in its call to spend less time banking and more time being. FRACTURED HUMOROUS is a book in five parts with interstices and dazzling graphics acting as the thread that holds the book together – as well as the tangents that fracture it. See "TORRESIAN REVELATION: 3-16." --FRACTURE :: one month / with broken arm in bed-- from "ANIMAL IS POEM": When animal sees another from its species injured or on its way out - it clears out…away from what’s hurt: #1. Respect dying wishes. #2. Avoid getting disease. When poet reduces mobility from letter to letter > speed reduces to abstraction of original resolution > finite comparisons emerge > end = silence > none = all > simplicity = minimal > motion = e > motive substance from wordsmith > unable to charter new ground = surrounding environment > adapts to newfound confinement > inability to progress = circumstantial surroundings. The possibility to invent is superseded by the probability of reduction. --ALASKA :: five days / with poets in snow-- from "SNOW MOUNTAIN": Backofthroat boomerang Echoback blindaround Allaround snow - hear voice was I was frozen gasping mountain huge I tiny shielding eyes from sun was I alone inside my eye --DIANA :: one day / with sister in boston-- from "VISITING MY SISTER": 10. MARIO ANDRETTI My sister drives a car throwing caution to the wind and then…driving into it. --ENGLAND :: three weeks / with poets in van-- from "DAV’SSHIDIDDA’NOT’TI (*Hotel room afternoon in England*)": *finalto conclusio xtraganeo festinytown… …perhaps… …destined for wander throughouse* such questious echinaceas… …afternoon’s contagious… …contiguous room number expatriate confusio… …don’t understand… …they douse… …easier to appropriate mis-and-anthrope… …pee and ate… …the country’s citizen… …people spice without developing… …a taste for the cuisine… …a… …howyousay zippy-kumma-kiiya…eh? --BERLIN :: three days / with pen on mayakovsky lane-- from "THE ARCHITECT OF CHANGE": Technicolor has a dream…doesn’t include Berlin Who lives in Black & White Darkness is a dream to the days of possibility We are water, thirsting up soil, hungry Black & White grain Pollinating the center of seperation, the place of all meeting points Before the ending is handed, before the buck is off’d Before the hunger dissipates in one fell swoop, one crumbled expanse wanderlust We are the night, open-mouthed and waiting, to have our throats stuffed With the stings of leather-clad scorpions, wrecked on stardust --------------- --------------------------------- 78 pages $10 + $2 s/h orders to subpress@hotmail.com payments to subpress 2955 Dole Street Honolulu, HI 96816 please make checks payable to `A `A Arts other subpress titles: CULTURAL EVIDENCE by Catalina Cariaga ($12) OORT’S CLOUD by John Wilkinson ($15) also available through Small Press Distribution / www.spdbooks.org subpress is a collective that is supported by nineteen people who have agreed to donate 1% of their yearly income. Each person is responsible for editing one book every three years. A lottery determined the editing order. Edwin Torres’s FRACTURED HUMOROUS was published in the first year of the collective. It was chosen by Carol Mirakove. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:02:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: POETRY CITY reading series Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The schedule for Jordan Davis's and Anna Malmude's POETRY CITY reading series, held on Thursdays at 7 pm at Teachers & Writers Collaborative, 5 Union Square West, 7th Floor, New York, NY (212/691-6590,info@twc.org), is as follows: OCTOBER 28 Bill Zavatsky & Daniel Kane NOVEMBER 4 Adeena Karasick & Sam Truitt NOVEMBER 11 Book Party for DIG & DELVE by Lary Fagin & Trevor Winkfield DECEMBER 2 Anna van Lenten, Bowamn Hastie & Annie Gwynee-Vaughan DECEMBER 9 Los Panfleteros (Jesus Papoleto Melendez, Reverendo Pedro Pietri, Stephanie Agosto & Rodrigo Ernie Ortiz III) DECEMBER 16 Darlene Gold & Catherine Barnett WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 22 WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 22 Book Party for MIDWINTER DAY by Bernadette Mayer (reprinted by New Directions) Admission to all events is free, as are the refreshments. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:21:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Lindsay Hill reading at The Attic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Lindsay Hill will read from his work at The Attic reading series in San Francisco, hosted by John High. Saturday, November 6, at 5:00pm. The Attic is located on 24th Street between Mission & Valencia. Lindsay Hill's most recent book is NDJENFERNO (Vatic Hum). His work has appeared in Sulfur, Caliban, Central Park and many other magazines. He is the publisher and co-editor, with Paul Naylor, of Facture, a new journal of poetry and poetics slated to appear in January 2000. "It would seem appropriate for these murderous lyrics to be half-spoken, half-sung by a demonic rhythm-and-bluesman in some post-apocalyptic border town. This is a book about that ultimate border between violence and meaning, illuminating the truth of Benjamin's definition of history as an accumulation of wreckage. Hill talks a high-tension lingo stripped of tense and person, denuding & freshly wounding time and subjectivity. Here, each line is a compressed scream, an ecstatic crossing between last & first things, a neo-medieval chorus line of skeletons dancing ..." - Andrew Joron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:50:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: New American Poetry Reading and Book Party at SPT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1271237875==_ma============" --============_-1271237875==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reading and Book Party at Small Press Traffic Friday, October 29, 7:30 p.m. New American Poetry Book Party Ebbe Borregaard Lawrence Ferlinghetti Barbara Guest Ron Loewinsohn Michael McClure David Meltzer Mary Clarke Greer and Christopher Wagstaff will read Madeline Gleason's work. Small Press Traffic and the University of California Press invite you to this historic occasion, the book launch for the re-issue of the original (1960) The New American Poetry 1945-60, the "singlemost influential poetry anthology of the post-World War II period" (Alan Golding). Tonight, some of the original New American poets will come and read from their work-Ebbe Borregaard, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Barbara Guest, Ron Loewinsohn, Michael McClure, David Meltzer. We hope to lure NAP's reclusive and revered editor Donald M. Allen out from his Diamond Heights lair. In addition, the late Madeline Gleason will be represented by her executor, Mary Clarke Greer, and by her editor, Christopher Wagstaff (who has completed a new edition of Gleason's Selected Poems, published by Talisman House). New College Theater 777 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1271237875==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" PalatinoReading and Book Party at Small Press Traffic Friday, October 29, 7:30 p.m. New American Poetry Book Party Ebbe Borregaard Lawrence Ferlinghetti Barbara Guest Ron Loewinsohn Michael McClure David Meltzer Mary Clarke Greer and Christopher Wagstaff will read Madeline Gleason's work. Small Press Traffic and the University of California Press invite you to this historic occasion, the book launch for the re-issue of the original (1960) The New American Poetry 1945-60, the "singlemost influential poetry anthology of the post-World War II period" (Alan Golding). Tonight, some of the original New American poets will come and read from their work-Ebbe Borregaard, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Barbara Guest, Ron Loewinsohn, Michael McClure, David Meltzer. We hope to lure NAP's reclusive and revered editor Donald M. Allen out from his Diamond Heights lair. In addition, the late Madeline Gleason will be represented by her executor, Mary Clarke Greer, and by her editor, Christopher Wagstaff (who has completed a new edition of Gleason's Selected Poems, published by Talisman House). New College Theater 777 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1271237875==_ma============-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:15:44 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dunbar1223@AOL.COM Subject: Boo! Comments: To: richardfrey@dca.net, ewatkins@wistar.upenn.edu, bearde@jevs.org, dmoolten@pol.net, Tasha329@aol.com, solstice1979@yahoo.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, bartlett@critpath.org, cgiddle@sas.upenn.edu, LFrank@mail.nbme.org, ngerbarg.digiclan.org@digiclan.org, patrick.egan@phila.gov, Masco@aol.com, pmarchant@erols.com, davwar@citypaper.net, nwillaims@ccp.cc.pa.us, rsimon@voicenet.com, Raymond.Dunn@cigna.com, rkeiser@ccp.cc.pa.us, RobrtPela@aol.com, swegman@pobox.upenn.edu, SarahNMIR@aol.com, sva@together.net, BSariego@propertysolutionsinc.com, mlord@brynmawr.edu, giophilp@netaxs.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, sbenston@haverford.edu, daisyf1@juno.com, kelly@compstat.wharton.upenn.edu, Seguepjd@aol.com, straka@pobox.upenn.edu, jjohns@netaxs.com, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, mwalton@adphila.org, tgrant@icdc.com, ywisher@hotmail.com, aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@mccus.jnj.com, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, AMossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, CSchnei978@aol.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, Miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, Ribbon762@aol.com, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, SFrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, TWells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, VMehl99@aol.com, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, zurawski@astro.temple.edu, bmcmilla@hotmail.com, Iamblel@aol.com, little@dca.net, twourevs@ix.netcom.com, buchanan-richard@dol.gov, CFrey@u.washington.edu, Phoebadams@aol.com, sadorno@philamuseum.org, ebest@haverford.edu, brynmawr.edujohnfattibene@juno.com, lmc10@psu.edu, Kyle.Connor@mail.tju.com, cconstan@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, pdarrah@haverford.edu, afilreis@dept.english.upenn.edu, jfoo@sas.upenn.edu, cford@brynmawr.edu, nfoulke@brynmawr.edu, sfried@compuserve.com, mfriedma@haverford.edu, mfriedma@brynmawr.edu, jfritz@haverford.edu, jhart@brynmawr.edu, chenry@haverford.edu, john2364@tc.umn.edu, mjjones@brynmawr.edu, mkay@haverford.edu, kirbyl@mcphu.edu, skirby@ledgewood.com, hlowder@haverford.edu, sarahmce@mail1.netreach.net, CM@fpaa.org, jpulver1@swarthmore.edu, jransom@haverford.edu, cridgway@haverford.edu, dsheffie@u.washington.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn, ssivapal@nyhs.med.cornell.edu, ssumathi@netscape.net, amsmith@haverford.edu, mstremla@haverford.edu, JCTODD66@aol.com, lwatkins@haverford.edu, iweiss@haverford.edu, firstuu@libertynet.org, ashm@libertynet.org, arden@charger.oldcity.dca.net, LeonLoo@aol.com, whpoets@english.upenn.edu, ToshiMakihara.mark.Palacio@hotmail.com, cathleen@unix.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stella a.k.a. Karen Scioli a.k.a. Daughter of Desire a.k.a. That Maneater from Manayunk will be hostessing the festivities at the Halloween Party Tavern on Camac (243 S. Camac) Saturday evening, October 30th. (The party should get into full swing around 10PM, beginning with a costume contest.) Don ye now your gay apparel. No, wait, that's the wrong holiday, isn't it? Never mind. Just be there. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:32:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Piuma Subject: flim is a good site for bored office workers, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [epigraph: Ted Berrigan on poems being "amusing".] I mean, you're at your desk, it's kinda slow, or you just need to get away, so you do a little web surfing, even though allegedly the folks in IS might be "tracking" every e-move you e-make, but don't they have anything better to do, and anyway this is a pretty harmless site, not like that guy in the cubicle down the way, who's always downloading picture of naked and excessively large-breasted women, even uses them with his screen saver, has no shame, sexist jerk, so what a little web reading anyway? Read flim. http://www.flim.com Short quirky writing, etc. Updated every weekday. If you get this message on Monday and you visit, you'll read the endnotes of Charlotte Wells's brilliant dissertation, "Epistemology as divorce: Trends and anti-trends in contemporary studies." If you click on the link marked "previously" you can read Friday's article, Ron Henry's "Two pieces from Hommage to Darragh". A must for all you fans of Tina Darragh. A bit before that is a "Rebus" by Lawrence Upton. And if you go even further back -- well, you'll see, you'll see. And yes, we are looking for submissions! Short quirky writing, etc. Send it in to editor@flim.com. It will make the world a better place. No, really. We are especially looking for sestinas right now. We are thinking about a "sestina week". (Oh also there are cartoons.) -- Chris Piuma, etc. Editor, flim http://www.flim.com Short quirky writing, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:29:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Long Subject: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forgive me, please, if this is a repeated posting...I'm having trouble with my network today. At any rate, I am trying to find a book or essay which details the "true" rules of form for ghazal. Any ideas? Thanks in advance, Brent A. Long ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:20:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: boys (& girls) in the band Comments: cc: Thomas Dorow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain thomas dorrow { p o e t i x } re are reading the ~same~ list arent we ? you write; "These threads (...) about a kind of "the boys in the band"-style regionalism and demographic query totally ignoring that this list is not only read or used by Americans, border upon the same issue for me." and i'd like to point out a couple small things here ----- everybody talks about how the internet might bring people that don't know one another together, right? ----- that seems true enough at times ---- in that i now have frequent email contact with a new friend in australia with folks all over the u.s. with some in canada and a guy in brazil and if i were to list all the contacts that have bloomed and then faded or just not gone anywhere i cd list a lot of other places outside of the u.s. but So What ? i asked about demographics as i've heard so many people assert (based on what evidence i have no clue) that the majority of the poetix list participants were localized in NYC and SF ---- so my pposting about demographics was simply to ask if there was any info and then in specifiying the south (where i live if it aint obvious) was that i thought it wd be a damned shame if it turned out that there was another poet or poets on this list whose aquaintence and perhaps friendship i might have who cd be --- god knows right here in atlanta or just in georgia or perhaps along the dull stretch of I-85 between here and my family's home in NC i hope to go to europe next year and wd like to meet poets there too, and prior to any such trip will probably post something similra about areas that i'm likely to visit ---- will you post again then to pin me down as some other boy in some other band ? (undoubtedly earo-pop, no ???) )L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:26:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herr Colin Subject: Re: Ghazal there is a great essay on the ghazal in a book called (I think) _Expansive Poetics_ (or Poetry). I cannot remember the author or title (I'm not much on who but what) but it deals with the history and often over-use of the moniker "ghazal" as well as giving guidelines for ghazals. A great book of ghazals is _The Green Seas of Heaven_ by Hafiz. And let us not forget Federico Garcia Lorca's as well... >herr< ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [ theremin music ] hypertext artworks for storyspace -michael stutzman {mistutzman@vassar.edu} daniel pereira {alpereira@vassar.edu} herr colin g. hough-trapp {cohoughtrapp@vassar.edu} "The dawn is my Assyria; the sun-set and moon-rise my Paphos, and unimaginable realms of faerie; broad noon shall be my England of the senses and the understanding; the night shall be my Germany of mystic philosophy and dreams." -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:27:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression (OR, in defense of reading) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >a collapsing of meaningful distinctions in favor of a rhetoric of >dismissive . . . bemusement Thank you Taylor for your interest. May I ask you, bemusement conveys no meaning, Taylor? my post was bemusement in terms of severe mockery, not outrage. if there was a dime for every up-andcoming critic stepping on a creative person's head, well, there'd be enough coins to make us all very very rich. using one form of rhetoric (bemusement/mockery) does not mean i favor it over others in all cases. by any means. its legitimacy depends upon your value system. obviously i am a low brow cretin who resorts to more old fashioned everyday common man techniques, which seems to you unworthy of deployment in such a group as this. perhaps this group has been at this point before. sorry for rattling skeletons. the sound of bone on bone admittedly is chilling. >such behaviors from their writers and readers that go far beyond the very general "making folks feel bad," which seems to be about the greatest level of social violence listees can muster in their conflicts. social "violence"? deploying tertiary definitions of loaded words such as "violence" in order to sway group opinion, then, is also a form of violence perhaps? the friar's club, on your use of "violence," is a violent organization then? and then you are restraining your own violence? >Again, not to say that isn't a problem - at the risk of adding my voice to the calls for restraint, could we perhaps make sure to read each other, and be willing to articulate that reading out in the open, before resorting to dismissal out-of-hand? actually, to be very honest, my effort was calculated. and restraint is not exactly a "correct" means of discourse, and I hope poets and those who love poetry know that. restraint is one of many means. having a sense of humor helps, as you and I would guess Mark both know. Am I not to assume that he has a sense of humor? That he understands why I would be bothered enough to twist his post into a punchline? >I obviously have my intellectual investments here, rather than simply >attack them in the "I-can-shout-over-a-DSL-line-louder-than-you" mode. If that works for you, yes, sure, you can pursue your goals by your preferred means. I could say what I said quietly. What I said was in text, and in mixed (mostly lower) case. technically shouting is done with ALL CAPS. and, heck, i WISH i had DSL. >It might benefit us, though, to make a principled distinction between our >practices and theirs - a little more care and attention on both sides of >this argument, perhaps? I don't see it as "us" and "them." I'm a primate, an animal, making a display about very strong feelings i have about poetry. i am not above my nature. i am steeped in the animal kingdom and do not wish to insult the good name of my ancestors by acting any other way! and I'm childish and perhaps naively idealistic. i wish the group to have a great deal of cohesion. cooperation is power. crit often divides to conquer, and that breaks down cohesion. perhaps this is the root of my mockery, the distaste for such displays of superiority, as Mark seems to try to display over Alan. I'm a primate and said, "eek! eek! no no! you must be laughed at!" poets are largely disenfranchised, and most are poor unless they find another way to make an income. why not discourage our own from disenfranchising each other? when poetry sinks into subtle political games of manipulation and duplicity and backchannel handshakes, well, I'll shout then, too. Why get back at Mark through "principled distinctions between our practices and theirs"? There are few ways more respectable, at least in my little worldview, than being aboveboard, than making people laugh. i know for sure more than a few people laughed. must they change their ways, too? And I say this in the open to you Taylor, because despite the fact that we don't see eye-to-eye on method I like you and what you have to say. If I made fun of you here, would you laugh, or would you walk away in a puff and denounce the means? I'm not advocating that someone club mark over the head or label him a dickhead or something coarse like that, and i don't think anyone here gets that impression (I hope). if i disagree with you, Taylor, i still see what you say as respectable and worthy of response, even disarming aggressive responses. Because I imagine you can go home and say, "geez, that was stupid," or, "no, now you're being stupid" (which is what I think you are saying here, and that's OK with me, my "I'm with stupid" tshirt has an arrow that points to my face). Despite how we as adults are taught to be friends, and how apparently I fly in the face of that proper way known as RESTRAINT, i don't want Mark to be my enemy. i'd rather he say, "why did you say something so low to me in public" than to decide that I am his mortal enemy. perhaps this is the tower of Babel and he won't understand that. I was willing to take the risk. i believe Mark is on the side of poetry, and that he may be misguided if he thinks that what he said is valuable and above even the lowest of ridicule. obviously he has a deep love for poetry, and i know i cannot dissuade him from that. perhaps I can dissuade him from being a clannish elitist, though, through mockery. i know what i said stung, but he's probably (hopefully) going to post again soon. i did not call him names. i made fun of him, albeit in a shockingly disarming way. but not behind his back. how do we formulate our gestures? Taylor, you seem to intimate that it's the bad guys versus the good guys, and that i am a good guy gone astray. i am as bad if not worse than anyone and would like not to join such a team at all. to boot i would like to make fun of both teams as long as I can. I like Mark, I like you. I dislike the humorless stepping on heads thing. in my experience people step on another person's head to gain something. mark steps on Alan's head, to gain more space in his inbox perhaps, to gain inclusion in groups that have excluded Alan with similar types of unengaged crit, to reinforce his friendships with others who do not like Alan's writing. I step on mark's head to gain a world of poetry where (1) people can mercilessly lampoon others, and (2) where critics do not find room to gain in their own positions by doing the dirtywork of their masters. And you step on my head, perhaps a soft soled shoe, to show that i and others on this list not use ridicule and use restraint. You and I and Mark are no better than one another. we just have different means. All the best, Patrick ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:39:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: Re: Ghazal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Try Muhammad Abd-Al-Rahman Barker et al, Classical Urdu Poetry, vol. 1, or D.J.Matthews, Anthology of Classical Urdu Love Lyrics. But a simpler approach would be to try the Encyclopaedia Britannica or a mere Web search -- unless you really want to get into such rather difficult technicalities as the traditional meters that used in the ghazal form, etc. Best, Philip Nikolayev At 04:29 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote: >Forgive me, please, if this is a repeated posting...I'm having trouble with >my network today. At any rate, I am trying to find a book or essay which >details the "true" rules of form for ghazal. Any ideas? > >Thanks in advance, > >Brent A. Long > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:44:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Transcultural Experiments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The following book has just appeared, and I thought it might be of interest to some on the List: Transcultural Experiments: Russian and American Models of Creative Communication, by Ellen E. Berry and Mikhail Epstein, St. Martin's Press. "Contemporary processes of globalization have led to multiple and complex effects, among them the formation of radical new modes of cutural interaction, transcultural flows, and hybridized knowledges--forms not easily understandable in terms of traditional models of discrete national or ethnic cultures/subcultures. Transcultural Experiments develops new scholarly and creative strategies out of this intersection of cultural traditions, specifically in Russia and the United States. Ellen E. Berry and Mikhail N. Epstein define and enact a transcultural method as an alternative to the legacies of cultural divisions and hegemony that have dominated both Western and Second Worlds. The book introduces a system of original concepts and genres of writing that will help in mapping 21st century global cutlure: "transculture" (vs. multiculturalism), "interference" (vs. difference), "potentiation" (vs. deconstruction), "inteLnet" (vs. internet), ethics of imagination, hyperauthorship, and collective improvisation. The authors make a revolutionary argument in cultural studies that will be of profound interest to anyone concerned with finding new modes of creativity in the humanities, interdisciplinary thinking, and intercultural communication." Ellen E. Berry is Associate Professor of English and co-chair of the English Department at Bowling Green state University. Her books include Curved Thought and Textual Wandering: Gertrude Stein's Postmodernism; Re-Entering the sign: Articulating New Russian Cultures; and Postcommunism and the Body Politic. Since 1994 she has co-edited the feminist cultural studies journal _Genders_. Mikhail N. Epstein is Associate Professor in the Department of Rusian and East Asian Languages and Cultures at Emory University. His most recent books published in English are After the Future: Paradozes of Postmodernism and Contemporary Russian Culture and Russian Postmodernism: New Perspectives on Post-Soviet Culture. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:28:34 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: the "biz" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> > >stephen ellis wrote; > > that the "world" > (of poetry) > seems very much > caught up > in the sense > of itself as > a business > > >i started thinking again about this and am perhaps getting more confused as >i go on --- i've done these magazines and lost heaps of money and have >another in the can waiting and waiting and weighing on me that i can't >afford to pub it yet --- and i make no money on these things it all goes >out >really, but that doesnt discount being a business, right ? i mean there >are >plenty of things we call businesses that lose money so that can't be the >dividing line > >conflictedly > > >)L > > >know how you feel, seems hard for me in dear old Australia to sell the >Hannah Weiner book i did in 86 hard then harder now with about 40 sale >copies left, also hard to get orders in for the new Weiner book COUNTRY >GIRL whyche will be a handmade production// publishing sent me broke a >number of times during the 80's and a coupla times i was already broke when >i published something what does this = a minus//nope//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:18:58 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression (OR, in defense of reading) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Taylor Brady >I largely agree with the (implicit) assertion here that Mark's dismissal of >Alan Sondheim's work without benefit of anything close to a reading >constitutes a problem for the kind of reasoned "restraint" or >"self-control" >he advocates re: Alan's postings. At the same time, however, the urge to up >the ante >: ) >Patrick > ,,seems to me at least sondheim is active is MAKING things and has found a venue to show and tell///pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:13:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: **Ammiel Alcalay in the Bay Area** Comments: To: hollanderben@hotmail.com, shurin@usfca.edu, kc@pw.org, ymontijo@yahoo.com, mwolf@sfbg.com, jen@manicdpress.com, pamlu@sirius.com, mmblack@theworks.com, acornford@igc.org, staff@sfgta.org, rosnell@juno.com, modgreek@sfsu.edu, vala@dnai.com, poltroon@sirius.com, afsf@afsf.com, a_c_t@sirius.com, klobucar@unixg.ubc.ca, baymuse@astron.Berkeley.EDU, berkson@sirius.com, books@blacksparrowpress.com, chrisko@sirius.com, harmonyprince@webtv.net, fabarts@silcon.com, brent@spdbooks.org, Wischixin@aol.com, bstrang@sfsu.edu, bruce_ackley@compumentor.org, rtatar@caartscouncil.com, minka@grin.net, chana@mills.edu, CharSSmith@aol.com, kunos@earthlink.net, dietz@theriver.com, xoxcole@cs.com, craig@akpress.org, avbks@metro.net, copy123@jps.net, plonsey@sunra.Berkeley.EDU, duende@unisono.net.mx, daboo@sfsu.edu, dcmb@metro.net, ddelp@corp.webtv.net, dmelt@ccnet.com, dada@cdm.sfai.edu, sixt@sirius.com, Callahan@uclink4.berkeley.edu, elaine@citylights.com, leake@uclink4.berkeley.edu, dblelucy@lanminds.com, Ewhip@aol.com, ewillis@mills.edu, heyeli@jps.net, edelloye@best.com, mcnaughton.eugenia@epamail.epa.gov, gmd@dnai.com, gisfdir@sirius.com, hrohmer@cbookpress.org, heather@spdbooks.org, herb@eskimo.com, Uncleish@aol.com, istituto@sfiic.org, vent@sirius.com, jeffconant@hotmail.com, jeff@detritus.com, poehlerjennifer@compuserve.com, jen_hofer@uiowa.edu, three7@earthlink.net, gomes@igc.org, jbrook@ix.netcom.com, chimpowl@well.com, jocelyn@sfsu.edu, joseph@xinet.com, jraskin@ryanassociates.com, yshuayes@hotmail.com, joshs@jbnc.com, intrsect@wenet.net, dbkk@sirius.com, ogilmore@concentric.net, liteplay@dnai.com, laura@spdbooks.org, moriarty@lanminds.com, info@poetshouse.org, linda.norton@ucop.edu, leni@adj.com, lisad@sfai.edu, lolpoet@acsu.buffalo.edu, catalan@netcom.com, 70550.654@compuserve.com, perloff@leland.stanford.edu, marty@spdbooks.org, marvin@pgw.com, maxpaul@sfsu.edu, mmblack@theworks.com, mrareangel@aol.com, mprice@ncgate.newcollege.edu, walterblue@bigbridge.org, mbwolfe@worldnet.att.net, mwolf@sfbg.com, Moxley_Evans@compuserve.com, nelia@telis.org, nla_arts@sirius.com, normacole@aol.com, editors@twolines.com, ohill4@earthlink.net, pquill@sfai.edu, 103730.2033@compuserve.com, pbhoward@serendipitybooks.com, peter_gizzi@macmail.ucsc.edu, priley@dircon.co.uk, newlit@sfsu.edu, raghubir@haas.berkeley.edu, rgladman@sfaids.ucsf.edu, rchrd@Eng.Sun.COM, chrisko@sirius.com, rovasax@aol.com, sdas@hbs.edu, shacker@birdhouse.org, tpapress@dnai.com, center@sptraffic.org, sratclif@mills.edu, rovadams@aol.com, steveanker@aol.com, sfarmer@earthlink.net, clarkd@sfu.ca, skleeberk@aol.com, smilla@sirius.com, suzedmin@thegrid.net, tbrady@sdabcc.com, fuson@uclink4.berkeley.edu, bookpub@netcom.com, th@wessexbooks.com, yedd@aol.com, angelica@cyborganic.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46riends. I'm forwarding Ammiel Alcalay's schedule for the various readings & talks he's giving while in town next month. I'd highly recommend you check out any or all of these events. In case you're not aware of his work, Ammiel's an outstanding poet-essayist-translator-activist who's focused on the Mediterranean region. He's translated poetry & other writings from Arabic, Hebrew, Serbo-Croatian, & Spanish. Highlights of his long bibliography, off the top of my head, are _After Jews & Arabs: On Levantine Culture_ (U Minn.), an amazing guide to recent writing from the so-called middle east; _For/Za Sarajevo_ was a special issue of Lusitania magazine that appeared several years ago during the siege of that city; _Sarajevo Blues_ is a great small book from young Bosnian poet Semezdin Mehmedinovic; Ammiel's own book of poetry, _the cairo notebook_ was published by Gil Ott's Singing Horse Press in Philadelphia; and his newest book is due any minute from City Lights, a collection of selected recent essays titled _Memories of Our Future_. He lives in New York & teaches at CUNY, Brooklyn. >> >>Lecture at UC Berkeley on Tuesday, November 9th at 5:00 >> >> The Poetics of Local Knowledge: >> Dispatches from the Balkans & the Middle East the Near Eastern Studies office is 642-4915 >> >>Lecture/reading at Stanford on Wed. the 10th in the evening >> >> Memories of Our Future: Bringing Home the Cultural >> Landscape of the Balkans & the Middle East (650)725-2789 >> >>Reading, & interview with Norma Cole / Small Press Traffic Friday the >>12th at 7:30 >> >> Literary Arts Center at New College; New College Cultural Center (766 >>Valencia between 18th and 19th) >> >>Book Party/Reception Sunday, November 14th from 5 pm on >>Co-sponsored by IVRI-Nasawi & City Lights Books >> >>Reading at Lone Mountain / University of San Francisco November 16th at >>8 pm >> >> Room 140; 2800 Turk Blvd. between Masonic and Parker =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives ~ San Francisco State Univers= ity 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ 415-338-3401 ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:58:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: On Number-Systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/25/99 2:47:52 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: >And reading Knuth on number-base systems which include, for example a >ternary system with +1, -1, and 0 as the symbols. Such systems can absorb >the positive and negative numbers; there are others, such as ones based >on >2i, that can absorb the complex number system as well (i.e. a single num- >ber of the form ax^n + bx^(n-1) ... +dx^1 +e). This is an amazing economy >of means. The book is my favorite in the Knuth programming series - the >volume on Seminumerical Algorithms - since it goes into the construct of >arithmetic processes and algorithms we all take for granted. In my own >work, I've always been fascinated by the possibility of base-1 and base- >infinity systems; in the former, of course, addition becomes concatena- >tion, and in the latter, the addition of any two unique symbols results >in >a third, i.e. J + K = L. There's an easy translation from the decimal sys- >tem; say 25 * 26 = 650 - one would just look up within the infinite multi- >plication table, [25] and [26] and see [650] where the [x] represents the >unique symbol. One goes from algorithms to infinite memorization or look- >up. The phenomenology of this is really interesting, I think. For multip- >lication with base-1, one returns again to concatenation, for example 1111 >* 111 = 111 111 111 111 which is the same as 4 * 3 = 12. There's nothing >to learn in terms of memorization or lookup tables here; there's nothing >to look up or memorize. Think of this as an infinite abacus of sticks >placed in a single row; one moves from base-infinity with its pure economy >of place and infinite symbols, to base-one with its pure economy of symbol >and infinite place. This material is fascinating; it says something about >the stability of the world itself, the Aristotelian logic at the heart >of >the almost-disconnected plateau of the life-world. I wrote years ago ex- >tensively on such phenomenologies; it's great to see the structures them- >selves in Knuth."* To place sticks in the row, letters in a row, one >counts (literally) on the stability of place and demarcation - _these_ >sticks are counted - _those_ remain unaccounted-for and uncounted. The >sticks need not be in a row; there's no need for geometry, positioning, >since what one is concerned with is the pure quantity of sticks, not a >positional relationship. Interestingly, positionality also disappears with >base-infinity, since every operation and quantity involves only _one_ pos- >ition. In The Matrix, there is considerable discussion about "who is the >One" - in base-one, everyone is, and in base-infinity, whatever is _there_ >is the one. > >What is going on here? On one hand, with base-one, there is the fact and >phenomenology of _substance_ and the quantifiability and stability of the >world; on the other, with base-infinity, there is the problematic of the >proper name in the Kripkean sense of rigid designator. In the former, >names shift towards processes; in the latter, processes harden as names. > >One might also consider issues of perception: exactly what constitutes >a >stick or a symbol? Could, for example, two trees represent 2541 and 1734, >a third representing 2541^1734 base-infinity? Is all of nature, in fact, >the mathematics of base-infinity write large? At the other end, what might >one say about typification, standardization: What constitutes a stick and >what doesn't? Sticks are related to tallying, of course; they are indexi- >cal in relation to the quantification of the real, a one-to-one relation- >ship with other physical objects. On the other hand one might consider >the >base-infinity symbols both symbolic (standing-for quantity as proper names >or summarizations) and "quasi-ikonic," the coagulation of quantity itself >as unary. > >And there are issues of memory: _Where_ is the place of counting - which >sticks have already been marked, which remain unmarked? This depends not >only on the stability of place, but our knowledge of place as well. Since >base-infinity relies on individuated symbols, place, even the place of >_announcement,_ becomes less relevant; memory of place is replaced by >symbol memory: 2541^1734 = [2541^1734] > >Between base-one and base-infinity, the structure and variety of the world >appear - not the infinite and obdurate variety of base-infinity, nor the >pure quantifications of base-one, but gatherings, foreclosings, metaphors >and metonymies. It's at the limits that nature becomes simultaneously mute >and revelatory; in-between it's all culture and our image writ large, >rubbed against the structure of the world. > >Word: re-ers >Guess: >Sorry, the word was "refers" >Another word? Alan admires the "amazing economy of means" in the volume on Seminumerical Algorithms in the Knuth programing series. I wish he would apply the same economy to his own work. Going through the mind numbing profundities of this last posting - please Alan, where is a sense of irony, a sense of humor, a sense of proportion. Since you bring Aristotle in, where is the golden rule? Alan, you ask the question, "what constitutes a stick or a symbol." Well, sticks break bones. Symbols, I guess, don't. Because of their lack of economy -a quality which you seem to admire in "Seminumerical Algorithms" (whatever that means)- your words do > > > >*from http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/diary/diary.txt. > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- >Return-Path: >Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) >by air-zc01.mail.aol.com (v62.10) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:47:52 >-0400 >Received: from LIME.EASE.LSOFT.COM (lime.ease.lsoft.com [209.119.1.41]) >by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (v62.10) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:47:41 -0400 >Received: from PEAR.EASE.LSOFT.COM (209.119.0.19) by LIME.EASE.LSOFT.COM >(LSMTP for Digital Unix v1.1b) with SMTP id <12.002E858D@LIME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>; >Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:43:53 -0400 >Received: from LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU by LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 10418348 for > POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:47:36 >-0400 >Approved-By: poetics@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Received: (qmail 11490 invoked from network); 22 Oct 1999 23:44:16 -0000 >Received: from mail2.panix.com (166.84.0.213) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu >with > SMTP; 22 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 05:10:08 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: the "biz" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed John, I think by "business" I meant that there's a lot of activity outside one's own "formal" creative work that diesn't seem creative, or, at least, I guess, to put my foot entirely in my mouth, not creative "in the same way." But why should it be? Organizing books and publishing books etc. involves flexibility if often not outright creativity, tho I think I was trying to place my point or point my place in some other direction. By "business" I think I was trying to get at the fact that writing the poems - and perhaps also distributing them on a small scale - had to do with a distributive function, whereas this other "business-y" aspect seemed often to have more to do with accumulating a kind of authority wch is something other than any "authority" with which one writes. It's like the music business, the club scene, I suppose, in a more diffuse way, trying to get readings, going after publishing opportunities, etc. - all aspects of attaining some level of authority, just so to be HEARD, and recognized as (one of) the public figures of that activity, ie., producing materials that one feels "should be" heard. To call this "the business" is perhaps not quite the right term - it points more to a real lack of community, a narrowness and the attending frustration over how best to either escape the narerowness, or use it "to one's advantage." In this, the work - the primary, MADE thing - seems at times to be forced to play second fiddle to a social occasion - though who doesn't like a party? - in which one hopes to gain some authority in understanding how their efforts are understood by others, and of their own position within that understanding. So one wants a group of ardent hearers for the purpose of self-reification under image to an imagined common purpose. All I'm suggesting is that the work itself, used in this way, becomes enslaved to the purpose of its going public. How necessary is applause with regards to some semblance of accomplishment? Or, in contradistinction to this, what can one accomplish in isolation? One likes being with one's own kind to the end of feeling "understood, yet one also likes being with those different from one's self as a means of feeling difference. It seems all a matter of expansion and contraction of consciousness, that everything that happens IS "our business" yet never reaches the level of being the sort of "business" that becomes inflexibly authoritarian, even tho the "system" through which work becomes public is more often a function of the proprietary than not. How important is it, for example, viz copywriting, that more persons than you and a small circle of more-or-less intimate acquaintences know that you and you alone (influences notwithstanding) have written whatever you have written? And if it IS important, how many other people ("strangers") need to know this in order for the work to somehow establish a place for itself as an individualized version of The Tradition, say, in this pretty shadowy public sphere? The Business, as such, I think, comprises the ways in which the work is made to seem legitimate by being made also - and perhaps primarily - part of the legal corpus of ownership. The business of (self-) publicizing then becomes, I suppose, a way of sharing, although one based on power established, if I may say so, essentially from the top down. But then, poetry has always been a system partner of, and participant in, a continuous - if at times a-historical SEEMING - oligarchy. Perhaps a little more humor could be exercized in the ways through which the absolute reign of the maker in the MADE world makes his/her way into what might usefully be thought the humbling spectre of extensive public view. In a word, the question here becomes what do we believe we are delivering? Or what do we have each to give? Or, what can we BE, together? - S E >From: "Lowther, John" >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: the "biz" >Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:33:24 -0400 > > { p o e t i x } > > >stephen ellis wrote; > > that the "world" > (of poetry) > seems very much > caught up > in the sense > of itself as > a business > > >i started thinking again about this and am perhaps getting more confused as >i go on --- i've done these magazines and lost heaps of money and have >another in the can waiting and waiting and weighing on me that i can't >afford to pub it yet --- and i make no money on these things it all goes >out >really, but that doesnt discount being a business, right ? i mean there >are >plenty of things we call businesses that lose money so that can't be the >dividing line > >but maybe it can still ? that is businesses are at least concerned to make >money even if they lose it and i never expect to make any ---- or leave the >magazine publishing thing behind ---- i don't expect to make any money of >being a poet, i suppose i cd, i cd win a contest and get a book published >and win some $ but enough to think of my writing as a business ? > >so skip money, maybe what yr saying isnt about cash but clout ? capital in >that sense ? where we hope to get pubbed in the chicago review or the >gertrude stein awards or win the national poetries series competition b/c >"it'll open doors" us ? is that the "business" which you mean ? ---- i'm >reminded of something someone told me about going to a reading and the >young >poet who was reading that night marched up introduced themself to everyone >and was later heard to say "I LOVE NETWORKING!" ---- is that the same sort >of "business" ? > >admittedly, i like meeting poets ---- my trip to LA last year was a blast >and i look forward to new orleans next month ---- and i wd be mightily >pleased to win the national poetry series and have a bit of hope that my >work might get read or find it's way into places it won't if i end up >publishing it myself > >where does it start being the "business" ? when i start hoping that other >contest winners DONT win as it wd affect me negatively ? when i start >schmoozing and playing for favor with editors i don't like b/c it wd "do me >good" ? i think those things should qualify for the "biz" which i wd wish >to combat which it wd suck to step into > >but i'm left feeling that while i understand, i think, the thrust of yr >statement stephen, and too, see myself the businessy behavior now and >again, >that i DONT think of poetry as a business or the poetry world as business >community ---- that doing so seems somehow a self-blinding > >conflictedly > > >)L > > > >p.s. shit, more *seriousness* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:20:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: on regionalism... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Someone recently posted, to the effect that people in alabama were into regionalism....(this they took to be bad, and were fairly sniffy about it.......) What interestes me about most of the poets that i know in the south, is how much they are interested in *community* and how little they are interested in *regionalism* ... This should hardly be surprising..since they are more likely to care deeply about Coolidge or Stein, Koch or Palmer, Hijinian or Cerevolo, Mackey or Baraka, than James Dickey or even Charles Wright.... Many things are a'stirrin' in dixie, and they ain't regionalist: there are more poems, and more interesting poetry scenes, in heaven and earth, than are ecompassed in yer philosophy, Mr. Dorow! mp @lanta........ (This post reflects ONLY my opinions, and those of no other poet: in fact, if someone tried to agree with me, i wdn't LET 'em!!!) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:44:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: business of poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit business (biz'nis) n. [ME businesse , bisi, busy.] 1. a. The occupation, work, or trade in which one is engaged. b. A specific pursuit or occupation. 2. Commercial, industrial, or professional dealings. 3. A commercial enterprise or establishment. 4. Volume or amount of commercial trade 5. Commercial dealings: patronage. 6. One's rightful or proper interest or concern. 7. Serious work or endeavor 8. An affair or matter 9. An incidental action performed by an actor on the stage to fill a pause between lines or to provide interesting detail. 10. Informal. A verbal reprimand: scolding. 11. Obs. The condition of being busy. syns: business, commerce, industry, trade, traffic n. core meaning: commercial, industrial, or professional activity Business applies broadly to all gainful activity. Industry is the production and manufacture of goods , while commerce and trade are the exchange and distribution of commodities Traffic may suggest illegal trade Websters II New Riverside University Dictionary, 1988 it's a simple fact of life in our society that people must be able to provide for themselves monetarily. if one wishes to criticize the business elements of poetry, please consider looking at the larger picture in which this situation exists. most people are not able to financially support themselves through their poetry, their publications. this is almost laughable that i even wrote this last sentence, as it is so blatantly obvious. as both a poet and publisher, i cannot ignore the fact that it costs money to put work forth into the world. even self-publishing--paper, pen, printer, whatever--requires money. let's not forget stamps, envelopes. last i checked, these were not free either. maybe i'm looking in the wrong places? what about web publishing--i pay for internet access, paid for this computer at which i now sit, etc., so nope, that's not free either. sending work out to others to publish: well, there's still that computer and printer and paper and stamps to be thinking of. unless i'm going to go use someone else's computer and printer and paper and stamps. do i borrow, barter, repay somehow, or do i just take and not give back? which has parallels with what happens once someone is published in a journal...there's that work you're reading, yours, someone else's...there it is, right there, in the midst of someone else's resources i.e. book, journal, whatever. you get the experience, the pleasure, the gain yes the gain the benefit of reading it, holding it, looking at it, flipping the pages or clicking buttons...do you choose to simply ignore the fact that it took time and money and a whole lot of dedication and determination to bring this product forth? or do you go ahead and subscribe to some publications, purchase small press books, encourage and actively engage in the wide range of what it is to be a poet in this society in this time at this place at this moment and why aren't you going right now to buy some book off the spd website at once or grabbing an envelope and writing a check to a small non-spd-carried publication that has come across you lately that you liked that you enjoyed that you set aside without thinking about the cost the costs involved. the business of poetry is there whether you choose to look at it or not. to ignore it is a protective stance, a protected position. not everyone has the ability to / interest in maintain(ing) this posture. to bring it--the financial concerns of poetry--to light in a criticizing manner, pointing fingers at those who cannot avoid the simple math of needing to make ends meet, is unfair, detrimental...and contributes to the continuation of the limited availability of non-mainstream publishing. thanks for listening/reading-- jill stengel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:38:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Wallace on Beach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII " Clearly, according to Beach we can't be serious UNLESS we write about Hejinian, Silliman, Perelman, etc--for Beach, there simply can be no other poetic issue than language poetry." *************************** Mark: The two substantial chapters on slam and other performative styles...are they chopped liver? i'm confused... They seem to me pretty generous, often more so than many slam poets or scenes deserve....... How does that fit?? (also, that fact that he's pretty darn generous to Stephen Dobyns..) Just curious mp (This post reflects ONLY my opinions, and those of no other poet: in fact, if someone tried to agree with me, i wdn't LET 'em!!!) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:28:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: elements of business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...and then there's this networking thing... there are so many tangents, elements, aspects of this whole "business" thing... networking. hard to know sometimes what is going on. is this person talking to me b/c s/he knows i publish books? does s/he want something from me? or is this a gesture of friendliness, a desire to participate in the larger poetic conversation? do i want to always assume the worst, clam up, turn off, turn away? or do i want to leave myself open, believe that the conversational effort is from a place of genuine interest? and is it not genuine interest to want to be published, to, by being published, enter into the conversation in a larger way, reaching more people? this is very confusing. i want to know the poets in my community, and in the larger community as a whole. some i know are doing interesting publishing projects, some are being published, some are doing/hosting readings/performances--i want to know what's going on, who they are, what they have to say. am i networking? i do know of some people i've been warned away from, those who i've been told go through friends in a rotating cycle, when they've finished with their usefulness to them...that might be networking, but i'm not sure, really--it sounds more like resource-depletion to me. most poets i know are interested in the genuine conversation. who the hell else wants to talk about this stuff? not too many other people, tho recently a business (that word again) banker started talking to me about emily dickinson and dorothy parker, which impressed the hell out of me. so what is this networking anyway? really? curiously, jill stengel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:29:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Moving to NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Happy to announce that Jen Abrams of the Guld Complex, Chicago, is moving to NYC, where she will become Managing Director at Steve Cannon's ever wilde "A Gathering of the Tribes" -- the first ever paid staff,huzzah. Jenis super cool, vegan, non-smoke, totally responsible, --- and homeless. Know of an apartment in the vicinity, up to $1100? Bob Holman holman@bard.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:53:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: whereabouts of Carla Harryman's now-past reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Robert Corbett : No, you are correct, it IS in the Eliotic/Baudelairean Unreal City, the one that has pushed Paris and London off the perch, to wit, New York.(Here we see where a solid grounding in pop- and show-tunes would be of help to the aspiring geographer of poetry. "Mott Street" is one of the places mentioned in the song that promises to turn Manhattan into an isle of joy.) David. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:04:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: jackson mac low Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Douglas Kerr--and others-- one way to make a post is to take a tree and whittle it. I believe they have machines to do that these days. Another way is to post to Jackson at tarmac@pipeline.com . David (self-appointed, and entirely inadequate, replacement for George Bowering, king of terse, helpful, pas-sourir responses, during his absence from Vancouver that he may take the waters at Toronto.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:42:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: trane devore Subject: Re: name that quote? In-Reply-To: <19991024213431.TSRA20426@[12.72.67.87]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Because this is such a great quote, and because I'm sure others on the list are dying of curiosity: It's from Terry Eagleton's *Criticism and Ideology: A Study in Marxist Literary Theory*. I as well first thought Althusser ("Ideology and the State from *Lenin and Philosophy*), but that makes sense since Eagleton was highly influenced by Althusser during this period of his thought. Also note the Raymond Williamsesque "values" (*Marxism and Literature*). Trane >Hello Poetics, >Another one of my damnable queries. Does anyone recognize the author/source >of the following? >"A dominant ideological formation is constituted by a relatively coherent >set of 'discourses' of values, representations and beliefs which, realised >in certain material apparatuses and related to the structures of material >production, so reflect the experiential relations of individual subjects to >their social conditions as to guarantee those misperceptions of the 'real' >which contribute to the reproduction of the dominant social relations" (54). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:15:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Carol L. Hamshaw" Subject: Vancouver Videopoem Festival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Vancouver Videopoem Festival presented by The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre November 7, 1999, 8pm Video In Studios, 1965 Main Street, Vancouver, BC Admission $10 The first Videopoem screening event ever held in Canada. The hybrid genre, videopoetry, has received little attention in our country despite being a creative field of growing interest for Canadian artists since the 1970’s. Vancouver’s own Edgewise ElectroLit Centre Society is hosting this inaugural event where the cutting-edge of this innovative medium is explored and presented. Work from Canada and beyond will give local audiences a survey of the accomplishments in videopoetry in the past 20 years. Hosted by Kedrick James, improv poet, host and director of Bravo TV’s Planet Poetry. Features: Verbomotorhead, Vancouver improv ensemble doing a video production of e.e. cummings what if a much of a which of a wind. Adeena Karasick’s Alphabet City: “Through the continual questioning and reworking of traditional modes of language structures and usages, Alphabet City plays itself out within a politics of discomfort, hostility, secrecy, exclusion and interference. And, like the cityscape itself, language emerges as a semiotic slough, and functions as an economy of ruses, detours, complications; zones of problematization.” Patricia Smith (U.S.) teams up with poetry video guru Kurt Heintz in Chinese Cucumbers about a lover lost to HIV that creates “a kind of wild acceleration and simultaneous sinking feeling — and with all the mad cuts flying at the end there's no way out for the viewer.” (www.enteract.com/~kheintz/Fcucumbers.) Selected work of Jill Battson, host of Muchmusic’s poetry video series Word Up and organizer of Toronto’s Spoken Word Festival. Jason LeHeup’s first multi-media videopoem was produced as part of the Judy2 launch, a “journal” he co-edits. Activist and city politician, Bud Osborn, who’s creative work unflinchingly examines the situation and hope in Vancouver’s poverty culture. Funding for The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre Videopoem Festival has been received from the Canada Council for the Arts and is produced in partnership with Video In Studios, Vancouver, BC. Part of Outside the Lines, BC Arts and Culture Week. The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre is a nonprofit society whose mandate is to exploit communications technology to widen the audience of Canadian poetry and to give poets, multi-media artists and youth the opportunity to use, learn, and create with this technology. Videoconferencing and online publishing are the major technologies that we work with. Our electronic magazine can be viewed and heard at . Poets featured with audio include Adeena Karasick, Wayde Compton, bill bissett and Sheri-D Wilson. Funding for our programs is received from The Canada Council for the Arts, The BC Arts Council, The City of Vancouver, Embedded Spaces and Communicopia. For more information, please call Carol L. Hamshaw, Administrator, at 904-9362, or via email at CL_Hamshaw@bc.sympatico.ca -- Carol L. Hamshaw Administrator Edgewise ElectroLit Centre http://www.edgewisecafe.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 03:44:11 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression (OR, in defense of reading) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in defense. I can "delete" anything Ineed to--so I will not suggest anyone say "don't write it", but I do get up to five LONG poems a day from sd. and truly wish to spend time discussing poetics rather than being sent the poems daily. It ain't the NYTimes! But a communtiy which speaks. listen Todd Baron ReMapTaylor Brady wrote: > > I largely agree with the (implicit) assertion here that Mark's dismissal of > Alan Sondheim's work without benefit of anything close to a reading > constitutes a problem for the kind of reasoned "restraint" or "self-control" > he advocates re: Alan's postings. At the same time, however, the urge to up > the ante with this: > > this type of censorship is what keeps newspapers and televisions full of > doodoo, full of propaganda. I think the NYT might have a job for you! > > ..ends up moving in much the same direction - i.e., a collapsing of > meaningful distinctions in favor of a rhetoric of dismissive outrage, > bemusement, etc. Calls for "discursive protocol" articulated by individuals > without access to the immense, consolidated social surplus of, say, the > Times simply are not the same thing as the systemic and systematic > distortion of knowledge by capital. > > Now if you were to say that at times that very individual rush to dismiss > has been one of the many vectors along which Times-style distortion has > operated, I'd certainly be with you. But media monopolies have ways of > enforcing, cajoling, etc., such behaviors from their writers and readers > that go far beyond the very general "making folks feel bad," which seems to > be about the greatest level of social violence listees can muster in their > conflicts. Again, not to say that isn't a problem - at the risk of adding my > voice to the calls for restraint, could we perhaps make sure to read each > other, and be willing to articulate that reading out in the open, before > resorting to dismissal out-of-hand? Obviously, there are cases of personal > attack, "flaming," etc., in which the dismissive virtual sneer, rather than > the time-consuming response to an interlocutor who isn't going to bother > with a response anyhow, might be a useful option. But it seems to me we're a > long way off from that in Alan's writings, which interrogate the language(s) > of this list (well or badly [usefully or not?] is for a closer reading to > decide - though as a minor publisher of his work, I obviously have my > intellectual investments here), rather than simply attack them in the > "I-can-shout-over-a-DSL-line-louder-than-you" mode. We've seen the latter > here before, so I'm guessing we know what it looks like. > > That said, however, and without knowing Mark P., I'd give 10 to 1 odds to > anyone here that he doesn't have the weight of capital accumulation behind > him to come up to the level of the Times as an ideological "power." (And in > almost every instance, his ideological work on the list, when based on a > careful engagement, has been pretty well opposed to the practices of that > gray bastion of yellow journalism - my thanks, in general, for his presence > in this space). Hell, I doubt any of us here even rate a defunct Hearst rag > limping toward the inglorious end of a short-con joint operating agreement. > It might benefit us, though, to make a principled distinction between our > practices and theirs - a little more care and attention on both sides of > this argument, perhaps? > > Taylor > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Patrick Herron > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 1:55 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression > > >AS's work is often weak, diffuse, silly, and its extreme > frequency on the list has led at least a half-dozen people i know to find > new meaning in the phrase, "delete, don't read." > > Mack, er, Mark, you have a very bright critical career ahead of you. Pass > the sunglasses and roll out the red carpet! Get me a seat on Air Force One! > Feel the authoritative upholstery! Turn down the lights!: ) > > Gee, maybe I should show some good ol' RESTRAINT. Ahh, fuck that. > > >in my scheme of poetic things AS isn't huge or important or terribly > >exciting... > > And I feel priveleged to learn of his lack of importance from you. : ) > Can you send me that scheme? The poetics of schemata, the schematics of > poetry. How poetic. Kinda like instructions on building a television. I > was just building a poem from scratch yesterday, some wires, some wood, some > capacitors, resistors, and was looking for a good schematic. Maybe i need > to head to Hotlanta to find them? Joe's Poetry Schematics Shop down there > by Five Points? : ) > > >But Dan was indeed (as he suggests) expressing the feelings of *quite a > >few* people on the list. And i feel he is right to point out that the > >responses to him were a little too quick and too thoughtless: he was not > >calling for censorship. > > actually, he he seemed to be advocating a particular form of censorship - > self-censorship. self-censorship from threats. like of being labelled a > crap artist. this type of censorship is what keeps newspapers and > televisions full of doodoo, full of propaganda. I think the NYT might have > a job for you! : ) : ) : ) smiling happy faces! : ) : ) : ) > > I hope this was too quick and too thoughtless. Let's have my lawyer and > your lawyer do lunch. in case your flame spreads, or "blooms," as you call > it. > > the market force of criticism = CONTROVERSY. good work. A+. : ) > > if we cannot laugh > we can count ourselves > doomed to the same thing > we have always been > doomed to anyway. > > Bloomin', > : ) > Patrick > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:07:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: generation returns again & again (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" . Thus the real subtext >of the book is how the academic marketplace DEFORMS poetic thinking to >meet academic marketplace demands--"here is the field of acceptable poetry >to the academy; language poetry can now be defined as academically >acceptable; therefore all poetics must speak to it." >Is it a book for other academic critics to respond to and make other >careers out of while erasing the actual histories of poems and poets? No >doubt. While I agree with most of what Mark says, the passages I've detached here make me wince -- I suspect Mark will agree, after looking carefully at the careers around him, that writing a book about "language" poetry is probably not the best way to "make a career" in the academy even now -- As to the academic acceptability of "language" writing in comparison with other modes of poetry and discourse, I suspect that I know personally every human being who consistently teaches "language" poetry in universities, and I don't know all that many people -- "no doubt "? but Beach has made a muckery of Mark's commentary -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:19:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Federman and Benabou in Los Angeles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Raymond Federman and Marcel Benabou will be speaking this weekend on the campus of Loyola Marymont University -- for details visit: http://clawww.LMU.EDU/graduate/engl/Colloq.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:15:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: job ad... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" fyi, & a bit cheeky... rec'd under the heading "isn't everyone"... best, joe --------- The program in Creative Writing at -------- invites applications for an Assistant Professor in a thriving MFA program. Ph.D. preferred. To teach graduate and undergraduate poetry workshops, craft, and literature. We are seeking a poet of national reputation, with at least one book from a major publishing house, and substantial teaching experience. Awards desirable. Evidence of energetic and excellent teaching a top priority. Competitive salary and benefits. Send letter of application, c.v., writing sample, transcripts, 3 letters of recommendation (dated 1996 or later), and a stamped, self-addressed postcard, to Chair, Creative Writing Search Committee. Materials must be postmarked by 15 November. MLA interviews. -------- is an Affirmative Action employer. Note: if you do not know someone on our faculty, or if you do not know someone who knows someone on our faculty, please do not bother. And if you know anyone who knows someone on our faculty, please encourage them to apply. -------- is an Affirmative Action employer. Also: if the someone on our faculty you do know, or the someone on our faculty someone you know knows-i.e., if the faculty member so known is anyone, you might not want to waste your time, either. Ditto for those anyones you know who think they know someone. -------- is an Affirmative Action employer. NB: We are not just anyone, and we are looking for someone. -------- is an Affirmative Action employer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:43:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Fw: something to the poetics list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey, Anyone with contact info for Glen Ingersoll, please backchannel to summikaipa@hotmail.com Thanks Patrick F. Durgin --------------- Text of forwarded message --------------- From: "Patrick F. Durgin" To: Subject: Fw: something to the poetics list Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:26:22 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 -----Original Message----- From: Sumana Kaipa To: kenning@avalon.net Date: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 3:53 PM Subject: something to the poetics list >hi & i'll talk to you soon, > >will you send this to the poetics list for me: > >I'm looking for contact information for Glenn Ingersoll. > >Anyone have a phone number? > >thanks, >summi > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > k e n n i n g a newsletter of contemporary poetry, poetics, and nonfiction writing http://www.avalon.net/~kenning 418 Brown St. #10, Iowa City, IA 52245, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:23:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon and/or Christina Subject: Re: name that quote? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy- The passage is from Criticism and Ideology: A Study in Marxist Literary Theory by Terry Eagleton. -Brandon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:29:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: sticks and bones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >Alan, you ask the question, "what constitutes a stick or a >symbol." Well, sticks break bones. Symbols, I guess, don't. >Because of their lack of economy -a quality which you seem to >admire in "Seminumerical Algorithms" (whatever that means)- >your words do But a stick, of course, can be a symbol. And in that way, a symbol can break bones. I'd say Sondheim's question is perfectly reasonable-- and in the right symbolic context a potential stick for use. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:57:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Mudlark In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark No. 12 (1999) ________________________________________ At A Shift of Points the Chorus Switches Twenty-five Poems by Martin Bennett ________________________________________ Martin Bennett read English at Saint Catherine's College, Cambridge. He then taught in Nigeria and Ghana. He now works in Saudi Arabia. His collection of poems, LOOSE WATCHES, was published by the University of Salzburg Press. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:57:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: the "biz" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe it was Harrison Fisher, who in 1985, coined the term "poebiz".... ...are there any earlier references? Gerald ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:26:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Bye MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think Todd Baron did it for me - "up to five long poems a day." I've never sent that much out to any list and most of my work isn't partic- ularly long. I was also slammed for sending out something about the poetics of mathe- matics, which I think is relevant here. But clearly it isn't. I'm tired of the debate. My work's available on Trace. I'll send in very very very occasionally on this list, most likely just URLs. I don't expect very many of you to be interested, but then most of the poetics here is literary in the oldest sense possible - and while there are new works and writers going on, from Kent Johnson to Christy Sanford to Miekal And to m9ndfukc.com or jodi.org - ALL of whom are relevant here - the discussion continues in very traditional ways. I thank those of you who have suppor- ted me of course; I'm not trying to overly-generalize or offend anyone. Someday - if you continue to use words like "author," "poem," "avant- garde," "experimental," "writing," or "reading" - you're going to have to open up a LOT more than you've done. And you're going to have to open to radically different forms of discourse, of media, of Net in all its mani- festations. I'd suggest looking at the 7-11 list for example or the occa- sional literary posts on Nettime. Again, this is just my neurosis here. I'm worn out. I don't want to defend myself or my writing any longer. I don't see any point to it. I'm excited by a lot of new writing all over the Net, and I wish there were more of it on Poetics. I love the writings of a lot of people here as you probably know. But I do feel hounded out by a lot of others, and I am physically ill at the moment, there's bad sickness in my family, and I'm really tired of fighting the same fights I've been engaged in for decades, arguing the same arguments. I'm depressed and stressed out, what else is new. For anyone interested, check out the URLs below - I will probably send an update of trAce once a week, since as writer in residence "there" I get to see a lot of exciting things, including my own. Alan, apologies to everyone Trace at: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk Internet Text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm My current work at: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/diary/le.txt Online diary at: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/diary/diary.txt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:08:03 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Dorow Subject: Re: on regionalism... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Mr. Presjar, you wrote, > Someone recently posted, etc. when you actually meant me. This is quite alright, but I´m beginning to feel an itching in my nose. In fact, I´m beginning to bite the edge of my table at the sound of this schoolmasterly tone, but well well, a nice cup of tea should do away with it, and for the rest, my "philosophy" will help. Then you said something about someone being sniffy about regionalism, and I say no and no and again no, I´m not, honest to god. There is a certain sense of community, though, that makes my toenails curl, and that is the kind that claims collective authority. Greetings, Tom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:55:47 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "r.drake" Subject: Grist mill MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii forward from another list: > >Announcing a new list for poets discussing political issues. Grist, the >successor to ictus, is up and running. Grist is an open discussion list, at >the core of which are poets discussing political issues that are relevant to >all. From Kosovo to East Timor, from media distortion to the use of drugs >by psychiatrists, all is grist to the mill. > >Join the list at http://grist.listbot.com . Send messages to >grist@listbot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:13:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: poetry audience/s Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A bit late to post re this, I guess, the rate we do turn over topics here. But anyway : I am glad to see this subject discussed. It does need it. To see the work of Dobyns so widely read---9,000 bought the selected, did I read?--when it is such predictable, contained, unchallenging writing, while the poetry of---oh, hundreds, but at my random, say Kit Robinson, Steve Benson, Deanna Ferguson, Lissa Wolsak, Dan Farrell, Nick Piombino, surely has at best one-tenth of those sales, is not only galling, it is a crying shame.....that there are poets who are so much more the equal of their times, scarcely remarked by a book-buying public, while "300 CW programs" [and that AINT C & W, right?] bolster SD's sales & thus confirm students to produce poems that continue this non-venture, "ah, well, it troubles my sleep," is an understatement, and a colossal one at that. Look at SD's product and you will find no mystery whatsoever, each poem wraps itself up with not a drop left over, like the last glass of the evening, for the gods. The titles alone take care that nothing escapes. The poems are over-contextualized up the wazoo. To me, the phenomenon of this ilk of poetry in our day is only an extension of the new world order and the control mindset that it would impose upon Mind, that best adventure. I find it depressing that books such as _Body Traffic_ get published by Penguin whereas it is harder each year for the poetry I love to get published at all; poor people who write poetry cannot afford to subsidize its publication, and more of us get poorer by the year. Is there a solution? Think. In the meantime, the failure of poetry to reach a public, frees poetry up to be whatever it wants to be, no one to impress or hustle, none to address, only Being & Nothingness, only Love and Beauty, In/Justice, Oblivion, the Language and one to do it. David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:39:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Subject: Re: Ghazal In-Reply-To: <01JHK5MFTXB6002FW2@VASSAR.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII See "The Ghazal in America: May I" by Agha Shahid Ali, in _After New Formalism: Poets on Form, Narrative, and Tradition_, ed. Annie Finch (Story Line Press, 1999), pp. 123-132. Cheers, David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Kellogg Duke University kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Program in Writing and Rhetoric (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:16:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: sticks and bones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > sticks break bones. Symbols, I guess, don't. Well, take TWO sticks, cross them at right angles, and you have something suitable for a crucifixion. Next, you have The Cross, a symbol. How many bones have been broken in the name of The Cross? Even more than have been broken in the name of The Koran, probably. David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:16:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Lavender Subject: Re: Winners-Deep South Writers Conference Contest Comments: To: Robley Hood , Rosalind Foley , Sean McFadden , Shawn Moyer , Staci Swedeen , Stanley Blair , Stephen Doiron , Steve Wilson , TABORWARRN , Tim Smith , Timothy Materer , Paige DeShong , Pamela Kirk Prentice , Patty Ryan , paul maltby , rlehan , Steve Barancik , Randy Prunty , Rogan Stearns , "Sean H. O'Leary" , Robert Brophy , Patricia Burchfield , Staci Bleecker , rita hiller , Stacey Bowden , Suzanne Mark , ralph stephens , Tatiana Stoumen , Todd Nettleton , Ruth Rakestraw , Robin Kemp , Patrice Melnick , Sam Broussard , Pat McFerren , Sara Wallace , Sandy Labry , Richard Crews , susan middaugh , Rhonda Blanchard , "Tammy D. Harvey" , Tana Bradley , Walt McDonald , Wendell Mayo , William Ryan , William Sylvester , Zach Smith , William Pitt Root and Pamela Uschuk , Writers' Forum , "Whitten, Phyllis" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Loyola University and New Orleans Review announces An Other South Symposium and Readings Saturday, November 6, 1999 Loyola University Please respond to this email if you would like to have a hardcopy of the schedule mailed to you. Call 504 486 8868 for more information. Please forward this message. ************** Schedule: 2:00 PM: Panels and Presentations (Octavia Room, Danna Center, 2nd Floor) Introduction and Welcome. Bill Lavender Formalism, Experimentation, Improvisation. )ohnLowther poly(am)nesia. a haiku extension of AGRARIA. A. di Michele Multi-media Presentation. Gerry Cannon A Passion for Peril: Emotion and Experiment. Camille Martin Other Sense Poetry. Randy Prunty Panel on An Otherness: The South and Experimentation. All participants. Hank Lazer moderates Readings: Niyi Osundare Kay Murphy Amy Trussell Christopher Chambers 4:15 PM: Introduction of the New Orleans Review Advisory Board, Refreshments 5:00 PM: Break for Dinner 7:00 PM: Readings Continue (Nunemaker Hall, 3rd Floor Monroe Hall) Bernadette Mayer An interpretation in dance of Jake Berry and Amy Trussell=B9s "Dark Water Song" and Jake Berry=B9s "Primencia Devour." Amy Trussell Hank Lazer David Thomas Roberts Joel Dailey Andy Young Dennis Formento Joy Lahey Mark Spitzer Nancy Harris M. Sarki Alex Rawls Bill Myers Dave Brinks Susan Facknitz Brett Evans Greg Fuchs Randy Prunty )ohnLowther A. Di Michele Camille Martin Skip Fox ************************* Location Loyola is located at 6363 St. Charles Avenue, across from Audobon Park. Free Parking for participants and guests is available in the West Road parking garage (enter from St. Charles). For further information, contact: Bill Lavender=8B email: wlavende@uno.edu 5568 Woodlawn Place, New Orleans, LA 70124 (504) 486 8868 Other events that week: Thursday night, Nov. 4: Bernadette Mayer reads at the University of New Orleans at 7:30 pm. later Thursday night: Readings at the Dream Palace, 534 Frenchmen St. Open mike, and then music by the Glick Bros. Sunday, Nov. 7: Regular Maple Leaf Bar reading at 3:00 pm, Camille Martin and A. di Michele, followed by open mike. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:01:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: was a business, now it's just a building Comments: cc: Jill Stengel , Stephen Ellis , pete spence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" { p o e t i x } ( ( ( that's pete stephen jill and all the rest of you too first ---- jill i'm feeling hampered as usual by the multiplicity of reads that one can draw from email ---- are you angry at something i've said ? i hadnt meant to provoke anything like that ----- anyway, i'm not suggesting that acknowledging the monetary realities and such of poetry publishing are questionable and it doesnt seem that stephen was either ----- did it sound that way ? you spoke of being warned by friends about certain people who use others etc ---- sounds like high school, or, the corporate world, or academe, or... fuck---it's everywhere ----- still, i figure it's easier to trust people and see what happens ---- and it is maybe laughable that you wrote about how poets can't support themselves by poetry tho i've no urge to laugh or bemoan the situation ----- seems like i said before on this list (?) that the alternatives gave me the willies i mean imagine for a minute the poetry world on the model of basketball million dollar season contracts competition groupies endorsements celebrity wait tho...., there's jewel you wrote; the business of poetry is there whether you choose to look at it or not. to ignore it is a protective stance, a protected position. not everyone has the ability to / interest in maintain(ing) this posture. did anyone say this ? i don't think i said this ---- i recall saying that i dont think of poetry as a business or the poetry world as a business community ---- and that to do so felt like a self-blinding ---- and by the passion i sense in yr response it seems you wd too ---- that is, wd you want to suggest (based on that dictionary definition perhaps?) that poetry is *nothing more* than one business among many ? so when you continue with; to bring it--the financial concerns of poetry --to light in a criticizing manner, pointing fingers at those who cannot avoid the simple math of needing to make ends meet, is unfair, detrimental... and contributes to the continuation of the limited availability of non-mainstream publishing. i feel yr anger, but at whom is directed ? i havent intended to point any fingers in all of this and am well aware of the simple math of which you speak (i imagine a chorus of "he is" from the 12 or so poets who've been waiting a year or so for my 3rd magazine to appear) next, and it leads out of this pete spence wrote; know how you feel, seems hard for me in dear old Australia to sell the Hannah Weiner book i did in 86 hard then harder now with about 40 sale copies left, also hard to get orders in for the new Weiner book COUNTRY GIRL whyche will be a handmade production// publishing sent me broke a number of times during the 80's and a coupla times i was already broke when i published something what does this = a minus//nope//pete spence and i gotta tell ya pete every time i've seen yr notices about hannah's books i've thought "i really ought to buy that" i've printed yr posting out laid em out on the table next to the bills, credit card offers the number for the consumer protection agency which i've called and called about the guy who took $700 from us to paint the house and disappeared i still hope i'll get around to it but thanx for doing these books stephen ellis wrote; By "business" I think I was trying to get at the fact that writing the poems - and perhaps also distributing them on a small scale - had to do with a distributive function, whereas this other "business-y" aspect seemed often to have more to do with accumulating a kind of authority wch is something other than any "authority" with which one writes. (...) ...attaining some level of authority, just so to be HEARD, and recognized as (one of) the public figures of that activity, ie., producing materials that one feels "should be" heard. stephen, i think i did hear you amidst all my fumbling around about this and it seems to me that this 'authority' (author-icity) ...it seems, to me at least, that authority isnt (and i think you see this implicitly above) isnt of any *necessity* a bad thing until the work, as you say "the primary, MADE thing" is "forced to play second fiddle to a social occasion" how exactly does this happen ? what can we do about it ? is that jumping the gun > ~can~ we do anything about it tangent >>> i'm chided a lot by my poetry friends for my utter disbelief in anything commonly called The Unconscious ---- "unconsciously you do" they say etc ---- it just seems too tidy a catch-all for things that cd be explained but when youve got the unconscious handy it's like a landfill behind a velvet curtain; all those pesky considerations are just whisked away ---- and the curtain is so mysterious and the landfill stinks i'm drawn to the idea of dispensing with The System of dispensing with The Business as higher level abstractions which it seems the more we lean on them the more we fall far from the place we sought to know jill wrote/asked; i want to know the poets in my community, and in the larger community as a whole. some i know are doing interesting publishing projects, some are being published, some are doing/hosting readings/performances--i want to know what's going on, who they are, what they have to say. am i networking? yeah i s'pose, i do it, i cast no stones and this ties in with stephen's increasingly more insistent questioning in his post; >In a word, the question here becomes what do we believe we are delivering? >Or what do we have each to give? >Or, what can we BE, together? and as it seems i end up again with nothing much in the way of answers just some hopes which it's been pointed out to me one must have to stay functioning in one's ruts but that's not the note i want to end on stephen, jill, pete, anybody anyone have answers to these questions ? are they in fact questions that need answers ? ..that conceivably have them ? [the APPLAUSE light is on but we don't deliver] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:22:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Cope Subject: BEYOND THE PAGE Comments: To: rgiraldez@hotmail.com, boureeiv@aol.com, patterso@rohan.sdsu, mcauliffe@prodigy.net, Joe Ross , bmohr@ucsd.edu, globo@ucsd.edu, djmorrow@ucsd.edu, ctfarmr@aol.com, dmatlin@mail.sdsu.edu, falconline@usa.net, rgiraldex@hotmail.com, junction@earthlink.net, jrothenb@ucsd.edu, raea100900@aol.com, scope@ucsd.edu, jgranger@ucsd.edu, rdavidson@ucsd.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those in the area looking for a different kind of spook, chewck this out... Stephen Cope *** BEYOND THE PAGE resumes its monthly series of literary and arts events with the following reading/performance: What: SAWAKO NAKAYASU and LYTLE SHAW read from and/or perform their work. Where: Faultline Theater, 3152 5th Avenue (at Spruce), in San Diego's Hillcrest District. When: Sunday, Octeboer 31, 4PM. Etc: $3-5 donation requested, with no-one refused at the door. Beer, wine, and other refreshments available. ************************* * LYTLE SHAW is the author of several chapbooks, including _Low Level Bureaucratic Structures: A Novel_ and one book, _Cable Factory 20_ (Atelos, 1999). He lives in New York, where he co-edits SHARK, a journal of poetics and art writing. * SAWAKO NAKAYASU received her BA in Literature/Writing and in Music Composition from UCSD, where she has played floor hockey every Friday for the last six years. By day she teaches art, Japanese, math, and choir; by night she continues to write, while creating and producing new performance art works, including _Tending the Keep_, staged at Sushi Performance & Visual Art in San Diego last May. Her poetry has been published in CHAIN, KEY SATCH(EL), TINFISH, and is forthcoming in INTERLOPE. This summer, she learned how to ride a bicycle. ************************* BTP is proud to continue its monthly series of arts-related events with this reading/performance. BTP is an independent literary and arts group dedicated to the promotion of experimental and explorative work in contemporary arts. For more information, call: (619) 273-1338, (619) 298-8761; e-mail: jjross@cts.com, scope@ucsd.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:51:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Re: Wallace on Beach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a observation from my (very brief) perusing of the book under discussion...there seems to be an obvious lack of attention paid to (what Beach called) "multicultural" poetry in terms of "experimentalism." From what I remember, brief mention was made of the Walter Lew anthology _Premonitions_. Beyond that, however, no serious attention paid to the highly experimental work of, say, Myung Mi Kim, or even Theresa Cha, not to mention Amiri Baraka, or Nathaniel Mackey... Correct me if I'm wrong...like I said, I only briefly browsed the book. Either way, any attempt at grappling with "Poetic Culture" seems to me to have to concern itself with the cultures within that culture, & find a way to displace the "rigid hierarchies," as Mark W. points out, but in a way that moves beyond mere "academic" criticism, & pushes more towards the hierarchies within the poetic "avant-garde" in terms of race & poetic innovation. --js -----Original Message----- From: Mark Prejsnar To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 4:17 PM Subject: Wallace on Beach >" Clearly, according to Beach we can't be serious UNLESS we write about >Hejinian, Silliman, Perelman, etc--for Beach, there simply can be no other >poetic issue than language poetry." > >*************************** > > >Mark: The two substantial chapters on slam and other performative >styles...are they chopped liver? i'm confused... They seem to me pretty >generous, often more so than many slam poets or scenes deserve....... > >How does that fit?? (also, that fact that he's pretty darn generous to >Stephen Dobyns..) Just curious > >mp > > > > >(This post reflects ONLY my opinions, and those of no other poet: in >fact, if someone tried to agree with me, i wdn't LET 'em!!!) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:01:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: Re: was a business, now it's just a building Comments: To: JLowther@facstaff.oglethorpe.edu Comments: cc: stepellis@hotmail.com, spenvis@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear john, no, i'm not angry at anything you said, and i apologise for the confusion. i appreciate your response, tho, so perhaps it was for the best after all. what, then, was my intention? to bring up some matters that have been burrs under my saddle, so to speak. to vent, to converse, to discuss, to take a stand, to put my opinion into the mix. i found that once i started, i had a lot to say. i'm frustrated. it's a cumulative frustration. there have been several comments i've read on the list, as well as several things i've heard around my local (sf) poetry scene, and many conversations i've had that have led to this level of frustration. this level which brought me to a ranting state today. (why am i frustrated? see my 2 recent postings, for those of you who are just tuning in here...) so i got going, and had a lot to say, and said, and read your response, and now i want to answer your email and let you know that i wasn't directing my anger at you, and i want to go to sleep soon, so i'm going to answer a couple of specific things and go to bed. re: the networking thing--yes, john, i agree with you when you say "still, i figure it's easier to trust people and see what happens." i do, and i do, and usually i find that i am not disappointed. i find the term "networking" to be problematic, and it was used in a list posting that i read and have unfortunately deleted so cannot reference, and my networking post was intended to be a discussion and exploration of that term and its unclear nature, and some of the additionally unclear issues it raises. "networking" is used as if it is a "bad" word (or a "bad word"), but really, isn't it intended as a term to mean talking to people who are interested in what you're interested in? like engineers talking with other engineers (train, computer, civil, or otherwise). like poets talking with other poets. or does it have to be this thing that is predatory or exploiting or greed-based? this isn't really a question that has to be answered, but i think it points to the social cliques and insider/outsider feelings that have been discussed here. if it's not okay to talk to someone you don't know b/c it might be perceived as "networking" (whatever that is), then the silence among "camps" continues. a story: a certain wonderful more-established poet sat down to lunch at a table full of youngish (i.e. not-very-established) poets at the page mothers conference this past spring, announcing that she wanted to know what was going on with us b/c she already knew what was going on with her peers. "are you networking?" no one asked, b/c we didn't care what to call our conversation. "are you looking for us to publish you?" no one asked, b/c no one cared, no one thought of it as far as i know. we were simply flattered that someone cared what we thought, what we were interested in, what we were doing. we were happy to be talking with someone new, someone to spark the conversation in a new way. we were impressed that someone "broke rank" and came to talk with us. were WE networking? i don't think so, if it's a bad thing, but if it's a good thing, or a neutral thing, well, we WERE all talking, so...maybe... (end of story interlude) next: and "business"? why is this a bad word? not that you, john, are saying it is (just to be clear), but it's the sense i get, around here & elsewhere, it's things i've read, heard, inferred, that the "business" of poetry is like dirty laundry or something that no one wants to see. yet we are all engaged in it. i could argue various positions of your question to me, whether i would suggest "that poetry is *nothing more* than one business among many"--but i think, for simplicity and because it's late, that i'll say for now, no, i don't think that's enough to describe what i think poetry is. there are business elements to poetry, and there is a lot that goes into poetry that doesn't seem to have much parallel in the business world. i'm pretty fond of thinking that poetry is special in some way, and that business isn't special, but it really depends on how the terms are defined. if poetry means licking stamps and envelopes, which it sometimes does; and if business means designing more effective methods of communication, which it sometimes does, then business suddenly sounds more appealing to me than poetry. it's all how the terms are defined. if there is no definition, conversation(s) can get muddy. and sometimes even if there are... thank you, john, for the thoughtful response and desire for clarity. appreciatively, jill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:57:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: language poetry and the academy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Al: I do appreciate your caution in the brief note you sent to poetics. Still, I think at this point it's fair to argue that the position of language poetry vis a vis the academy is undeniably changing; it's NOT the outcast discourse it was at one time, although it's certainly not acadominant (as someone termed it) either. I think CBeach may be making a pretty good career out of talking about language poetry--but note the extent to which he does this by arguing that one of the strengths of language poetry is that, vis a vis poetics, it JUSTIFIES itself to contempoary academic critical paradigms. In short he's not arguing FROM the position of the poetry itself, but from the position of an institutional critic who allows the relevance of language poetry only to the extent that it fits his critical discourse. It's the CRITICISM that's dominant; poetry conforms or not (at its peril). And Mark P., yes, Beach does nod in the direction of other poetries, but isn't it also fair to say that he finds them lacking because of the extent to which they do NOT conform to a similar set of critical discourses? In any case I think I can grant the relevance of YOUR point without thinking very much that it undermines my own. You see, I think he's ATTACKING avant garde poetry far more than he even understands; if I understand him, language poetry succeeds primarily BECAUSE IT'S CRITICISM, really. I worry sometimes that one of the unintended affects of language poetry has been to further devalue the discourse of poetry as INHERENTLY also critical; poetry matters less and less to any institutional reader, but language poetry is okay because at least the language poets write theory. Mark /----------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | | | mdw@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu | | GWU: | | http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~mdw | | EPC: | | http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/wallace | |____________________________________________________________________________| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:38:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Long Subject: Re: Ghazal In-Reply-To: <01JHK5MFTXB6002FW2@VASSAR.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who replied concerning my query on ghazal. Interesting the Herr should mention Lorca, though. I'm familiar with his "Ghazals", but as far as I can tell, very few of his are truly "ghazals", according to what I've been reading about the form. Which is why I asked in the first place... Thanks again to everyone who replied, Brent -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Herr Colin Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 6:27 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Ghazal there is a great essay on the ghazal in a book called (I think) _Expansive Poetics_ (or Poetry). I cannot remember the author or title (I'm not much on who but what) but it deals with the history and often over-use of the moniker "ghazal" as well as giving guidelines for ghazals. A great book of ghazals is _The Green Seas of Heaven_ by Hafiz. And let us not forget Federico Garcia Lorca's as well... >herr< ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [ theremin music ] hypertext artworks for storyspace -michael stutzman {mistutzman@vassar.edu} daniel pereira {alpereira@vassar.edu} herr colin g. hough-trapp {cohoughtrapp@vassar.edu} "The dawn is my Assyria; the sun-set and moon-rise my Paphos, and unimaginable realms of faerie; broad noon shall be my England of the senses and the understanding; the night shall be my Germany of mystic philosophy and dreams." -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:55:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Re: ping pong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wait -- you mean it's not the acronym for "Poetry Nice Guy"?? - JD ----- Original Message ----- From: David Giles Scott > The poem is by Eugen Gomringer, though the original has an extra line, > and the spacing is everything, > > ping pong > ping pong ping > pong ping pong > ping pong > > Sincerely > David Giles Scott > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:09:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Long Subject: Re: on regionalism... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting that Mark brings up the word "community" here. Originally from the South myself, I noticed a definite sense of community among poets there, both in and out of academic circles that does seem to lack in at least the New England region, where I now live. However, I also believe that poetry IS in fact a "regional" art, in the (obvious) sense that vernacular, geography, etc. all shape the way a poet formulates their art. I don't think something as natural as being influenced by your surroundings should be seen as a source of contention within a "community" of poets. The work coming out of New York is far different in many ways than the work coming out of, say, Atlanta, and I for one embrace and depend on those differences. Any thoughts on "community", anyone? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mark Prejsnar Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:20 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: on regionalism... Someone recently posted, to the effect that people in alabama were into regionalism....(this they took to be bad, and were fairly sniffy about it.......) What interestes me about most of the poets that i know in the south, is how much they are interested in *community* and how little they are interested in *regionalism* ... This should hardly be surprising..since they are more likely to care deeply about Coolidge or Stein, Koch or Palmer, Hijinian or Cerevolo, Mackey or Baraka, than James Dickey or even Charles Wright.... Many things are a'stirrin' in dixie, and they ain't regionalist: there are more poems, and more interesting poetry scenes, in heaven and earth, than are ecompassed in yer philosophy, Mr. Dorow! mp @lanta........ (This post reflects ONLY my opinions, and those of no other poet: in fact, if someone tried to agree with me, i wdn't LET 'em!!!) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:00:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dana Lustig Subject: Re: on regionalism... Comments: To: mprejsn@LAW.EMORY.EDU I agree with Mark's take on regionalism. It seems that in Atlanta, there are more people there who are *not* from Atlanta, so regionalism as a sense of "place" matters relatively little. Community, however, matters a lot. The community for those poets who are interested in contemporary Southern narrative poetry is much larger because the South tends to be reluctant to compromise their traditions (which is their right, after all. If I don't like it, I can return to Queens, NY and my own damn traditions.) There's even a fairly large contigent of slam/spoken word artists here. So, what about those who don't get as tickled by that stuff? Suffice it to say it took me over 3 years to find others in the Atlanta area who were interested in approaching poetics differently than the established majority...and most of them aren't originally from here either. I can state with some certainty that these days it seems to be easier to make friends on the web than it is to hang around in one's own neighborhood, region, what have you. Given that, John's original post is only making use of effective resources. Dana Lisa ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: on regionalism... Author: mprejsn@LAW.EMORY.EDU at Internet-USA Date: 10/26/99 6:16 PM Someone recently posted, to the effect that people in alabama were into regionalism....(this they took to be bad, and were fairly sniffy about it.......) What interestes me about most of the poets that i know in the south, is how much they are interested in *community* and how little they are interested in *regionalism* ... This should hardly be surprising..since they are more likely to care deeply about Coolidge or Stein, Koch or Palmer, Hijinian or Cerevolo, Mackey or Baraka, than James Dickey or even Charles Wright.... Many things are a'stirrin' in dixie, and they ain't regionalist: there are more poems, and more interesting poetry scenes, in heaven and earth, than are ecompassed in yer philosophy, Mr. Dorow! mp @lanta........ (This post reflects ONLY my opinions, and those of no other poet: in fact, if someone tried to agree with me, i wdn't LET 'em!!!) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:11:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: Re: elements of business MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What is generally called "business" in fields outside of strict manufacturing, finance, services, commercial publishing, technology, etc. is generally a mishmash of sales, hr, pr, and "soft" middle management/project management. This is where networking enters the equation. While 5% (1 in 20) will "buy" anything, a higher percentage will "buy" from someone they know, a "name they trust", "brand they recognise", etc. Yes, this is true with poetry. Networking involves using skills like "working a room", "keeping a positive mental attitude", or, what I call "kissing frogs". It is convincing people you don't know, who don't know you, that you have something in common with them, and that you are a nice person. I'm terrible at it. True networking involves prep work including research about who will be at whatever meeting, from which companies, what you are selling, and what you have to offer each person. For poetry, it might be knowing who is likely to be at a given reading, what they do and how they do it, who they do it with, and then how what you do is similar, who you may know in common, how you can introduce yourself. While it sounds awfully extreme for poetry, it is very common in the entertainment industry (including theatre), where if you aren't available for networking, absolutely no one, even at an informal kegger, will talk with you. Also, people take notes. You see them in their cars after parties or meetings writing down the names and info for everyone they met. Jill, it sounds like you are already enmeshed in a secure network, where, since you are a publisher, people seek you out, and since you are reletively secure, can express a simpler interest in "what's out there". Networking is only one of the businesslike practices that some people do naturally and others don't. Obviously, there is no relationship between quality of work and networking skill, EXCEPT that in collaborative art forms and on projects, networking skills can predict personal responsibility/accountability, team playing, etc. Another businesslike skill is marketing, including niche marketing and product development (i.e. "style"). How do you write poems? Does the way that you've written a given poem determine how you'll try to get it published? Hey, if you were an actor, you'd have to figure out how to stereotype yourself. Still another is just the mechanics of submitting poems. What about related jobs? The main use of peforming, teaching, publishing a journal or web site, writing, publishing, and delivering academic papers, attending conferences, workshopping, belonging to AWP, MLA, PEN, winning grants isn't generating REVENUE, it's marketing (putting the stuff on your cv), networking, and increasing the ability of other publishers/readers to categorize you/find something they have in common with you. It functions sort of like government certifications: someone else has inspected your financials and found you're sound, so you must be ok. Regards, Catherine Daly Certified LA County WBE (Woman-owned Business Enterprise) cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:03:54 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Fwd: for George B. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit AUTHOR FELICE PICANO Sunday, Nov. 7, 1999 7 pm William Way Community Center 1315 Spruce Street The William Way Center's Gay Book Discussion Group hosts guest author Felice Picano at their November meeting. Picano, author of the new novel The Book of Lies, is a founding member of the Violet Quill Group, a salon of writers that met in Manhattan in the late '70s and included Andrew Holleran and Edmund White. Picano is a prodigiously talented author with over a score of books to his credit, including The New Joy of Gay Sex, Looking Glass Lives, Ambidextrous, Like People in History, and the memoir, A House on the Ocean, A House on the Bay. Please come to meet the author, check out this new book group, and have some wine and cheese. Feel free to bring copies of Picano's books to get signed; books are available at Giovanni's Room or Borders. Set approximately 10 years in the future, The Book of Lies is a stylish mystery, a hilarious roman a clef, a witty critique of academia and literary criticism, and a deft character study of contemporary artistic life. It is also an affectionate tribute to Picano's compatriots in the Violet Quill Club, including Edmund White, Andrew Holleran, Robert Ferro and others instrumental in the creation of the canon of gay literature. The novel tells the story of Ross Ohrenstedt, ambitious young academic in the fashionable field of queer studies, who, in the course of overseeing the collection of papers and works of a legendary author, discovers a baffling and provocative manuscript. His quest to identify its writer and gain prestige and tenure puts him on the trail of a potential -- unknown -- masterwork penned by one of a group of writers, some living, some dead, who in the 1970s and 1980s broke new literary ground. In the novel, The Purple Circle, as they were known, have become much revered, oft studied--the foundation upon which numerous academic careers have been made. As he did with Like People In History, Picano has created an intimate exploration of a larger historical phenomenon, at the same time giving voice to those who lived through a unique era offering the reader a complex, credible human narrator as a lens through which to view them. Advance Praise: "The Book of Lies is funny, dark, sexy, shocking, and yes, smart. Set in the near future ('four decades after Stonewall'), the novel tells of a young scholar trying to make his academic bones on the literary bodies of the 'Purple Circle'. Picano skewers the pedagogically pretentious with ease and wit. The Book of Lies is a wonderful novel, with some of Picano's best writing." ~ Bay Area Reporter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:38:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: re up w/ down Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Again, sorry to be dialtory : this responds to something from at least a week ago. > are talking. it was really rainy yesterday. I can't take >>it anymore. Alan Sondheim keeps writing stuff, and it's not "real" poetry. >>it's stuff that just came off his typewriter, as opposed to the other kind. >>what right does he have? let us band together, I mean it, and demand that >>Alan stop posting stuff from his typewriter because if he doesn't we're >>going to have to learn how to use the delete button, and I for one am much >>too busy for that. >> >>yours with an urgent sense of a vast problem, yet one, I think, that we can >>lick, if we just, like, you know, whatever. Allen I found this at the foot of a Stephen Ellis post, to which I was led by Charles Bernstein's rebuttal of a tale Ellis tells. I apologize for not knowing who "Allen" is in full. It's hard to believe my eyes. Here we are, 1999, and a poetry-lover can still make a distinction between "real" poetry and stuff that just comes off the tpyewriter?!? What does one put on in order to produce this "real" poetry, one wonders? A Sherlock Holmes robe and deerstalker hat? A laurel crown? A gorilla suit? Does anyone here remember the anecdote Creeley tells of reading in Indiana (perhaps there) and being asked "Was that a real poem, or did you make that up yourself?"? For what it's worth, in my opinion Alan Sondheim's project is an accurate use of this List. Yes, I expect much of what he posts he has just written---likely he writes directly onto his e-mail. I know I often do, valuing the immediacy and the commitment. Sure, I find the quality uneven---but that doesnt strike me as a primary worry at all. It's in the overall that this project has most meaning. And a part of that is to disclose the way the poetic faculty opens and closes like a flower, or a sea anemone, and to evidence the rhythms of this process. It is an intensely various endeavor, this poetry of his, and to that I say Amen! Keep variousness alive or, if its already too late, bring it fucken back! And this is not to say that some of his poems don't knock me out of my tree, boil my potatoes and throw my oatmeal to the ceiling. I assume in such a project there'll be poems that pass on by my individual capabilities. I dont always download, because theres too much else to attend to, and this in itself tells me something about the times, about poetry, about myself and about the Internet. Alan has set pieces---I believe I can identify some of them. But Praise the Lawd they are embedded in lava that still flows, and not the sum total of his writing life, not so many tombstones saying "Real dead" and "Geology died" at the same time. David ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:42:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Nettleton Subject: Like to read a good mystery story? Comments: To: Bill Lavender , Robley Hood , Rosalind Foley , Sean McFadden , Shawn Moyer , Staci Swedeen , Stanley Blair , Stephen Doiron , Steve Wilson , TABORWARRN , Tim Smith , Timothy Materer , Paige DeShong , Pamela Kirk Prentice , Patty Ryan , paul maltby , rlehan , Steve Barancik , Randy Prunty , Rogan Stearns , "Sean H. O'Leary" , Robert Brophy , Patricia Burchfield , Staci Bleecker , rita hiller , Stacey Bowden , Suzanne Mark , ralph stephens , Tatiana Stoumen , Ruth Rakestraw , Robin Kemp , Patrice Melnick , Sam Broussard , Pat McFerren , Sara Wallace , Sandy Labry , Richard Crews , susan middaugh , Rhonda Blanchard , "Tammy D. Harvey" , Tana Bradley , Walt McDonald , Wendell Mayo , William Ryan , William Sylvester , Zach Smith , William Pitt Root and Pamela Uschuk , Writers' Forum , "Whitten, Phyllis" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you do, this web site might interest you: http://members.aol.com/justicewrtr/justice4all/main.htm Hope you enjoy! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:37:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jenho@MINDSPRING.COM Subject: New Avec Books URL Avec Books' website has a new URL-- www.instress.com/avec It seems that the former webmaster is not going to provide a link to the site, so interested folks should please make a note of the change. Best, Jen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:02:22 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kathylou@ATT.NET Subject: Re: name that quote? Thanks to the many kind-hearted scholars who replied to my query. Poetics=Love Kathy "Sugar Lips" Lou Lipstick Eleven > Because this is such a great quote, and because I'm sure others on the list > are dying of curiosity: It's from Terry Eagleton's *Criticism and > Ideology: A Study in Marxist Literary Theory*. I as well first thought > Althusser ("Ideology and the State from *Lenin and Philosophy*), but that > makes sense since Eagleton was highly influenced by Althusser during this > period of his thought. Also note the Raymond Williamsesque "values" > (*Marxism and Literature*). > > Trane > > > > > >Hello Poetics, > >Another one of my damnable queries. Does anyone recognize the author/source > >of the following? > > >"A dominant ideological formation is constituted by a relatively coherent > >set of 'discourses' of values, representations and beliefs which, realised > >in certain material apparatuses and related to the structures of material > >production, so reflect the experiential relations of individual subjects to > >their social conditions as to guarantee those misperceptions of the 'real' > >which contribute to the reproduction of the dominant social relations" (54). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:25:23 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: business of poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Websters II New Riverside University Dictionary, 1988 > > >it's a simple fact of life in our society that people must be able to >provide >for themselves monetarily. if one wishes to criticize the business elements >of poetry, please consider looking at the larger picture in which this >situation exists. most people are not able to financially support >themselves >through their poetry, their publications. >thanks for listening/reading-- >jill stengel > apart from the odd booklet most of my publishing activities nowadays are small easily posted things like my MIGHTY THIN BOOKS etc etc most are done in small runs and are only part of my usual correspondence so only go out to current situ,,,it is now financialy too hard it seems to go to the printer and ask for a 500 edition of something,, so a lot of my small press activity now never sees the bookstore or general reading public, i get a lot of nice publications in return via this more close-knit communication style of activity,, an example would be my MIGHTY THIN BOOKS series...i ask someone for some work that fits the format print about 15 first up for the author stipulating they keep one and give the rest away ,,then send a few copies out in my mail to people who have been in a Mighty Thin etc when i send the initial 15 to the author i usually send five multiples of another Mighty Thin so they can also give away someone else's work,, later sendings to any author is usually 10 copies of their book with a few multiples of others in the series etc etc this goes on with a number of different authors so a distribution of a lot of the Mighty Thin books goes out into "a" system that i have little control over ,, a nice system i think,, hope that all makes sense!!!??? pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:51:41 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: was a business, now it's just a building Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >( ( ( that's pete stephen jill > and > all the rest of you too > >stephen, jill, pete, anybody >anyone have answers to these questions ? >are they in fact questions that need answers ? >..that conceivably have them ? > > > >[the APPLAUSE light is on but we don't deliver] dunno tho one thing i know like with my habit of making postcards daily reaching for the glue-stick i can't help it!!! i never have a stock of postcards because they are all in my next pile of mail to bods,,same with writing/MAKING visual poetry etc publishing little numbers is a "got you under my skin" situ that maybe never leaves,,i'm not unhappy!!!!pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:32:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems to this writer that there is no progress on this list except in the direction of monologue, censorship and exclusion. The same games keep getting played out over and over. It's pathetic and creepy. Cycles of abuse. Ellis's recent posts are elegant critiques that go to the heart of the matter: attempts to be authoritative and totalizing freeze discourse and encourage the useless repetitive batting at one another that has become a mainstay of the Poetics List experience. Interesting, creative people like Sondheim keep getting needlessly pissed on. Use the freaking delete button. Come on guys--and it is guys I'm talking to--get a life. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:48:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Re: on regionalism... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the concept that one could create something/anything divorced from their surrounding is an enviable dictum, but it is hard to imagine unless you think about isolation chambers & float tanks. Im a dyed-in-cheese regionalist, infact a bioregionalist, in fact living in the heart of the driftless bioregion, the largest unglaciated spot in the northern hemisphere. no apologies for my writing & art being located in the place I live. mIEKAL aND, dreamtime village, usa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:38:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dan raphael Subject: expression / poetix/ whoever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Okay, so express by being. i'd post more poems but i tend to write big. here's something short (tho wide in its usual format.) and this brings up an old irk of mine. since i often write 80 character lines, htis not only keaves me out of many half-sheet type magazines, it is also limited by what can be dispalyed on the web. how my house fell my house fell into a pucker of space time and across the street or next door are at least an hours drive away like a farm house in the middle of thousands of acres you can barely recognize from the highway. how driving west, you congratulate yourself for the marathon of nebraska only to be rendered unconscious by wyoming, not as long but so more hopeless, sucking up every drop of momentum, sweat & possibility when all you want to do is get out, get through the first vanguard of mountains and into utah swept so clean, clenched so tight, it wants you to roll through, is afraid to check our pockets or we’re deep in several concentric mazes of the city, like getting from the bronx to manhattan on foot, or my friend whose address in taipei was avenue 57., alley 16, block 4, building 11, apt 203: we’re defined by the grid, refined by the sheering abscissas systems inadequate to drain everything away, our mass attracting energy, the commerce of isolation, the need to zip the door around you like a sleeping bag, a sleeping bag that could support you in space for at least a week: the time for someone to find me or for my various parts to vote on which dimension to escape to and how many of them can access, who’ll be left to talk about it, locked in a silicon chip floating through space, the molecular bondage of memory stronger than vacuum gravity crumpled in a fist of wet pavement dan raphael ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:01:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Re: poetry audience/s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit david why does poetry have to be dependent on books why cyberspace can distribute literature to an international audience at very little cost. 9000 copies of a book seems like a lot but that kind of audience is easily had on internet. when the nytimes reviewed a visual poem of mine I had that many viewers in a week. now hits doesnt equal sales of books but buying a book doesnt mean the person will actually read it either. Im not dissing books, Ive been a publisher of handmade books since 76, but the playing field has spawned new options. mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:27:53 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Angle Press Angle Press Subject: New Angle Press book for the Coming Winter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed We at Angle Press are pleased to Announce the publication of the first Real Book by Garrett Caples of Oakland, California: The Garrett Caples Reader (includes Mr. Caples's last poems) 98 pgs, perfectbound, $9 marvelously designed by Neko Buildings, and published in conjunction with John Yau's Black Square Editions This will be available through Small Press Distribution very soon (if not at this very moment...then that other moment that keeps passing very quickly....the one over there under the light). Thank you and good day ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:46:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dan raphael Subject: Re: regionalism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has been some discussion in Raven Chronicles http://www.speakeasy.org/ravenchronicles/ about what consititued Pacific Norhtwest poetry, particularly what encompassed local poetry in the Seattle area. Here in Oregon the 'official' 'local' poetry, as practiced by a majority of those with full time college teaching gigs, has william stafford as its icon. a good poet friend (who needs to protect his job as college adjunct) descirbes it as 'hillbilly chic,' its cool to be rural, very representational tho also terse. the unofficial local poetry here in Portland OR, exisiting via open mikes, coffee hourses, and to some extent the slam scene has bukowski as the chief icon, tho ginsberg and kerouac have altars not too far to the side. dan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:51:58 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: DOMESTIC AMBIENT NOISE continues Comments: To: brit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The noisy neighbours are back with 4 more DANs and they're banging on your ceiling shouting "Will you buy up this noise or do we have to take them to the Artists Book Bookfair?" Writers Forum announces the publication of 4 more issues of DAN, which is beginning to move towards its completion: desire and pursuit of who; Bob Cobbing / Lawrence Upton 0 86162 902 7 gaffa!; Lawrence Upton / Bob Cobbing 0 86162 903 5 problem of balance; Bob Cobbing / Lawrence Upton 0 86162 904 3 box thingies and spaghetti stuff; Lawrence Upton / Bob Cobbing 0 86162 905 1 £1 each plus postage say £1.50 UK payable to New River Project, 89a Petherton Road, London N5 2QT Sterling only please s.a.e. / i.r.c. with enquiries - or speak to your favourite bookdealer and visit the WF website http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~writersforum/ There will be special commemorative pairs of DANs to celebrate the Domestic Ambient Buoys' appearance at The Klinker on 11 11 99 and at Artists Book Bookfair later in the month - to be announced ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:18:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Business, class, access Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It seems to me that part of what Jill Stengel is highlighting is the importance of *access* and that not all poets/writers have the same access to "community" and publishing opportunities. And, yes, if we get very clear and very honest about this, a lot of this is about money (and other aspects of class mobility such as education). Bobbie West states it very clearly in the HOW2 Forum on class & poetics that Robin Tremblay-McGaw and I co-edited (and, yes, I do want to pitch this because I think the contributors worked hard and did a great job with limited time and space on a very difficult topic): "When it comes to literary production, class pervades every aspect of it. For people of the lower classes, the common denominator is "have-not" status, starting with the glaring absence of the middle/upper class assumption that it is always possible to achieve what one desires. There's a lack of cash to support money-losing ventures such as poetry magazines and small presses (owner/editorship of which gives one instant recognition). There's a lack of access to the Internet, where one can hobnob with publishers and magazine editors (publication being determined partly by who you know: For example, this particular essay appearing in this particular forum is a result of having met someone [Kathy Lou Schultz] at an academic conference and having contributed to an Internet discussion)." I find it interesting the extent to which poets will go to obfuscate their own or other's class privilege. It is like it is perceived as "impolite" to actually tell the truth about money -- and who has it. I get very tired of this because money does buy access: more time to write, money to publish one's own journals and books, which in turn increases both community as well as publishing opportunities for one's own work by increasing your "profile" and "reputation." Let's just say for now that I'm pretty clear that if I still worked at the Hinky Dinky grocery store in the town in Nebraska where I grew up, ya'll wouldn't be seeing my name in print at all. And lest you think I'm just pointing fingers, the quote from Bobbie implicates both Bobbie & myself, in a way laying things bare, and saying, yup this is how it works. As women from working class backgrounds we're both inside and outside of that, straddling, yet trying to keep it as real as possible. Not easy. Sometimes painful. Always interesting. Respectfully, Kathy Lou Jill Stengel wrote: as both a poet and publisher, i cannot ignore the fact that it costs money to put work forth into the world. even self-publishing--paper, pen, printer, whatever--requires money. let's not forget stamps, envelopes. last i checked, these were not free either. maybe i'm looking in the wrong places? what about web publishing--i pay for internet access, paid for this computer at which i now sit, etc., so nope, that's not free either. sending work out to others to publish: well, there's still that computer and printer and paper and stamps to be thinking of. unless i'm going to go use someone else's computer and printer and paper and stamps. ... to bring it--the financial concerns of poetry--to light in a criticizing manner, pointing fingers at those who cannot avoid the simple math of needing to make ends meet, is unfair, detrimental...and contributes to the continuation of the limited availability of non-mainstream publishing. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:29:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: In Re Alan Sondheim Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Alan Sondheim and all, Being swamped with work, I have been only skimming this list of late, and very selectively. I know there have been some criticisms of Alan's postings, but didn't realize the thing had gotten so acute. I don't have a very clear idea of the nature of the debate (I'd be grateful if someone gave me a brief summary), but I'm sorry to hear that it has caused some unpleasantness. I have read Alan's book, _Reality Disorder_, with much interest, and would very much like him to keep posting here. Alan, have you been asked to stop posting? That's ridiculous! And where I can I read your stuff on the poetics of mathematics? Don't give up and don't despair! This, too, will pass. Yours, Philip Nikolayev ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:52:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: R M Daley Subject: BAY AREA ULTRA EVENT (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII please forward for all to see thanks rd ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:49:09 -0700 (PDT) From: AreOut TheLights To: R.M.Daley@m.cc.utah.edu Subject: BAY AREA ULTRA EVENT "AMERICAN BEAUTY" you are cordially invited to a night of music movies beer language lights and god knows what at The Artists' Television Access 992 Valencia at 21st, SF, CA Friday, November 12th, 1999 8pm $3 [one drink with admission] a production of TheLightsAreOut in cooperation with the release of Josh May's TEMP + the presentation of James Sanders's THE TEENAGERS ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:25:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG EVENT: Monday, Nov 1 open discussion with poet Bernadette Mayer (U of Arizona) (REMINDER) Comments: To: egl@listserv.arizona.edu, english@listserv.arizona.edu, "mfa (E-mail)" , pog@listserv.arizona.edu, "pogevent (E-mail)" , "Valved (E-mail)" , "Waves (E-mail)" Comments: cc: "Jane Miller (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit REMINDER “Experimental Poetry” a discussion with poet Bernadette Mayer Monday November 1 2 pm Modern Languages 303 Bernadette Mayer is the author of numerous books of poetry and prose. Her latest books include Sonnets, The Formal Field of Kissing, The Bernadette Mayer Reader, The Desires of Mothers to Please Others in Letters, Proper Name, and Two Haloed Mourners: Poems. Throughout the 1980s, Mayer was director of The Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church in New York where, as well as teaching her legendary Experiments in Poetry Workshop, she produced the Poetry Project's reading series. Mayer's position made her a central figure in the community of artists and writers gathered at that time in New York City's Lower East Side. With her husband Lewis Warsh, she edited United Artists press, which published a number of seminal books of poetry, including Ted Berrigan's Sonnets and Mayer's own Utopia. Sponsored by: The University of Arizona Department of English The Arizona Quarterly -------- Poetry Reading: On Saturday, October 31, at 3:30, Bernadette Mayer and Barbara Cully will read at Tucson Botanical Gardens, 2150 N Alvernon. The reading is sponsored by POG, The University of Arizona Extended University Writing Works Center, and Tucson Botanical Gardens, and is made possible in part by grants from the Arizona Commission on the Arts and the Tucson/Pima Arts Council. For further information about these events contact: POG: 296-6416 mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:31:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: ATTENTION: TIME AND PLACE CHANGE for POG EVENT: Sunday Oct 31 Mayer/Cully reading at Botanical Gardens, 3:30 pm Comments: To: egl@listserv.arizona.edu, english@listserv.arizona.edu, "mfa (E-mail)" , pog@listserv.arizona.edu, "pogevent (E-mail)" , "Valved (E-mail)" , "Waves (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit due to some last minute logistical difficulties, the Mayer/Cully reading this coming Sunday, Oct. 31 (in Tucson) has been shifted to a new place and time time: 4:00 pm (rather than 3:30) place: St. Phillip's Church in the Foothills, 4440 N Campbell (NE corner of Campbell and River), in the Murphy Gallery (use east side entrance to gallery). [rather than Botanical Gardens]. (There's plenty of easy parking at St. Phillips) please make note of the changes, and please plan to attend! *** NEWS RELEASE POG in association with The University of Arizona Extended University present a Poetry Reading by Bernadette Mayer and Barbara Cully Sunday, October 31 4:00 St. Phillip's Church in the Foothills, 4440 N Campbell (NE corner of Campbell and River), in the Murphy Gallery (use east side entrance to gallery). Bernadette Mayer is the author of numerous books of poetry and prose. Her latest books include Sonnets, The Formal Field of Kissing, The Bernadette Mayer Reader, The Desires of Mothers to Please Others in Letters, Proper Name, and Two Haloed Mourners: Poems. Throughout the 1980s, Mayer was director of The Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church in New York where, as well as teaching her legendary Experiments in Poetry Workshop, she produced the Poetry Project's reading series. Mayer's position made her a central figure in the community of artists and writers gathered at that time in New York City's Lower East Side. With her husband Lewis Warsh, she edited United Artists press, which published a number of seminal books of poetry, including Ted Berrigan's Sonnets and Mayer's own Utopia. Barbara Cully is from San Diego California and earned her MFA at the Iowa Writers' Workshop. She is the author of The New Intimacy (Penguin, 1997), winner of the National Poetry Series Open Competition 1996, and of Shoreline Series (Kore Press,1997). She has taught in the University of Arizona Department of English since 1986 and has been a guest poet and teacher at the Prague Writers' Workshop in the Czech Republic. She is currently at work on a book of prose lyrics; the working title is “Desire Reclining.” Admission: $5 POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council and the Arizona Commission on the Arts. for further information contact: POG c/o Tenney Nathanson 296-6416 mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:17:31 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: Re: new Tinfish publication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinfish is pleased to announce the publication of Nell Altizer's sonnet sequence, _Thin Place_. Those of you teaching the sonnet form in coming semesters will, I hope, consider using this chapbook in your classes. Anyone interested in the sonnet, nay in poetry, should have a look. Copies are $5 each. Forthcoming volumes from Tinfish include work by Rob Wilson, Bill Luoma, and Ida Yoshinaga. (We'll be returning to our more "experimental" format.) Copies of Kathy Banggo's _4-evaz, Anna_ are still available. Several of my colleagues have used this book, which includes poems in both standard and Hawaiian Creole English, in their classes, to good effect (poetry _must_ be taken internally). Issues of Tinfish are still available, as well. They can be purchased for $5 each or $13 for a subscription to three issues. Tinfish is an entirely self-supporting enterprise (aside from mailing), so your financial, as well as your spiritual, assistance is most welcome. aloha, Susan ______________________________________________ Susan M. Schultz Associate Professor and Director of Creative Writing Dept. of English 1733 Donaghho Road University of Hawai'i-Manoa Honolulu, HI 96822 http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/schultz http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/ezines/tinfish ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:13:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: bromige & fodaski at st marks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This will be an imperfect announcement, as I dont have all the info. But I dont want to delay making it, given the time-lapse on our moderated list. At the Poetry Project, St Marks Church. next Wednesday, Nov 3, Elizabeth Fodaski and I shall be reading from our own writings. I think we begin at 7:30 p.m. I dont know what the door-charge is. I look forward to seeing some of you Listmates there. Thanks for your attention, David. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 05:05:59 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: elements of business Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed While I don't intend to sound either rude or ignorant, the substance of Catherine Daly's post makes me slightly itchy, as if I were allergic to something - but what? Terms like "middle management" and suggestions such as figuring out 'how to stereotype yourself' (albeit this was referred to as "if one were an actor", yet it also applies, I think, here, to "if one were a poet" or, "if one were to be a successful poet") lead me to ask whether poems themselves, as such, are merely tools with which one may enter the systematized world of product marketing, the product most often being the person rather than the poem? It seems very weird that a poem might be thought of as a marketing device, tho perhaps this might help explain the increasing interest in developing new theories and ways to define and effect audience. It's as if a broad field of possibly ardent and definitely un-listening hearers took place in the hopeful imaginations of those who take this 'noisy silence' as permission to continue making what seems very much the equal of dress sheilds for the deaf. Perhaps this is the "government certification" Ms Daly speaks of, being brought under inspection to find out whether one's "okay." But what's that smell wafting gently upwards from the poetic corpus, the gangrenous elation, perhaps, of group agreement preserved in some ledger of "sound financials"? & is there anything in this worth resisting? - S E >From: Catherine Daly >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: elements of business >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:11:43 -0700 > >What is generally called "business" in fields outside of strict >manufacturing, >finance, services, commercial publishing, technology, etc. is generally a >mishmash of sales, hr, pr, and "soft" middle management/project management. > This >is where networking enters the equation. While 5% (1 in 20) will "buy" >anything, >a higher percentage will "buy" from someone they know, a "name they trust", >"brand they recognise", etc. Yes, this is true with poetry. > >Networking involves using skills like "working a room", "keeping a positive >mental attitude", or, what I call "kissing frogs". It is convincing people >you >don't know, who don't know you, that you have something in common with >them, and >that you are a nice person. I'm terrible at it. > >True networking involves prep work including research about who will be at >whatever meeting, from which companies, what you are selling, and what you >have >to offer each person. For poetry, it might be knowing who is likely to be >at a >given reading, what they do and how they do it, who they do it with, and >then how >what you do is similar, who you may know in common, how you can introduce >yourself. While it sounds awfully extreme for poetry, it is very common in >the >entertainment industry (including theatre), where if you aren't available >for >networking, absolutely no one, even at an informal kegger, will talk with >you. >Also, people take notes. You see them in their cars after parties or >meetings >writing down the names and info for everyone they met. > >Jill, it sounds like you are already enmeshed in a secure network, where, >since >you are a publisher, people seek you out, and since you are reletively >secure, >can express a simpler interest in "what's out there". > >Networking is only one of the businesslike practices that some people do >naturally and others don't. Obviously, there is no relationship between >quality >of work and networking skill, EXCEPT that in collaborative art forms and on >projects, networking skills can predict personal >responsibility/accountability, >team playing, etc. Another businesslike skill is marketing, including niche >marketing and product development (i.e. "style"). How do you write poems? >Does >the way that you've written a given poem determine how you'll try to get it >published? Hey, if you were an actor, you'd have to figure out how to >stereotype >yourself. Still another is just the mechanics of submitting poems. What >about >related jobs? The main use of peforming, teaching, publishing a journal or >web >site, writing, publishing, and delivering academic papers, attending >conferences, >workshopping, belonging to AWP, MLA, PEN, winning grants isn't generating >REVENUE, it's marketing (putting the stuff on your cv), networking, and >increasing the ability of other publishers/readers to categorize you/find >something they have in common with you. It functions sort of like >government >certifications: someone else has inspected your financials and found >you're >sound, so you must be ok. > >Regards, >Catherine Daly >Certified LA County WBE (Woman-owned Business Enterprise) >cadaly@pacbell.net > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:36:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: on regionalism... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brent and list: Has regionalism been annilated by discussion groups? Certainly IDG's have been somewhat successful in breaking down social barriers between central and peripheral poets, thereby increasing the size of the invisible community, the invisible college, if you will. The significance of these opportunities offered by IDGs for the creation of new contacts or even for collaboration between other poets is underlined by other recent trends in the lists. This was begining to come true even in the old days (circa 1984), when we used early versions of electronic bulletin boards to increase our level of mutual awareness and acquaintance. The by-product of the IDG's, that interaction, is often initiated because of other reasons. I get information from a colleague about a theme although I originally posted another question. Once the informality begins to happen, this also drives the breakdown of regionalism. The informality is what I think is at work here. Someone asks a question and another member(s) provide an answer. A third member reads the answer and realizes that the author is working on a similar topic and cites relevant literature.... Collaboration is also the breakdown of regionalism: the emergence of collaboration between individuals, while it depends on aspects like their backgrounds...their specific pursuits...has the same effect, especially when the IDG offers possibilities to become aware of potential partners for cooperation and collaboration that can be approached within or outside the IDG. Thus, stimulating a volumne of communication within the IDG you may solve the problem of "planning the consequences of unplanned action in poetic communication", for example. I want to say that the "regionalism" (and I don't see this as a problem) seems to be formulated in terms of existing approaches, existing theories, schools, if you will. Creatures like this list offer a simplifying assumption that every actor has full information, which means she knows the shape of the production function and the amount of resources that was contributed by the other groups members.This commonality, this common standard of comparison for the "costs" of the participants and the value of the collective good, is I believe, another erosional factor. The only thing I can see that shoots all of this full of holes is that regiona lism is anchored by social contexts, and that there can be no authentic freedom from this embededness. This may lead to our communication taking the form which is somehow less influenced by social control. Status differences play a small role in this, driving the amount of communications, since they are not face to face communication. Then there's the topic of "fleeing the regionalism" into an IDG. We all have our own goal-chain. Differences in subgoals depend on differences in the constraints that lead to different production functions. For some it may be the attainment of a "poetic reputation", an important driving force. The relevant group for a poet is the poetics list, a community, that is, the other poets who aare doing works in a similar direction. It seems that the crucialmeans for a participant to obtain a poetic reputation is to solve poetic problems and to present his/her competence to this community. Access to information is therefore essential for him. This network of poetic colleagues is important in two respects. It is a pivottal instrument to get relevant information which is necessary to solving poetic dillemas. On the other hand, it is as well the crtical audience for sending valuable information. This building of significance is how I see the erosion of regionalism. best, Gerald ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:14:42 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: academic query?and why? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit question: the first "american" poem? (of the united states) would be? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:36:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression (OR, in defense of reading) In-Reply-To: <19991026011859.42701.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is puzzling and quite, quite bizarre: my post was merely relating to how others (with whom i guess you align yourself, right?) were displaying all their massive superiority "over" D. Raphael..... as i've said numerous time, there is much that is strong and interesting in Sondheim's work; was gonna back-chan. this, but on 2nd thought it probably should go on the list.... Do you actually read the things you respond to?? mp On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, pete spence wrote: > >From: Taylor Brady > >I largely agree with the (implicit) assertion here that Mark's dismissal of > >Alan Sondheim's work without benefit of anything close to a reading > >constitutes a problem for the kind of reasoned "restraint" or > >"self-control" > >he advocates re: Alan's postings. At the same time, however, the urge to up > >the ante >: ) > >Patrick > > > > ,,seems to me at least sondheim is active is MAKING things and has found a > venue to show and tell///pete spence > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:53:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Aye Heart Networking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } jill, catherine, others jill you wrote; > i find the term "networking" to be problematic, and it was used in a list > posting that i read and have unfortunately deleted so cannot reference, > and my networking post was intended to be a discussion and exploration of > that term and its unclear nature, and some of the additionally unclear > issues it raises. "networking" is used as if it is a "bad" word (or a "bad > word"), but really, isn't it intended as a term to mean talking to people > who are interested in what you're interested in? > yeah, it's used that way and also used in the more specific way that catherine outlined in her post today saying; Networking involves using skills like "working a room", "keeping a positive mental attitude", or, what I call "kissing frogs". It is convincing people you don't know, who don't know you, that you have something in common with them, and that you are a nice person.(...) True networking involves prep work including research about who will be at whatever meeting, from which companies, what you are selling, and what you have to offer each person. and it bears mentioning that it was i who posted the bit about networking, i wrote; i'm reminded of something someone told me about going to a reading and the young poet who was reading that night marched up introduced themself to everyone and was later heard to say "I LOVE NETWORKING!" ---- is that the same sort of "business" ? and the just ref'd "business" in that post was the thought of how getting published in various ways might "open doors" for oneself etc that is i was thinking not of monetray things but how one get's known, seen etc now the person that told me the I LOVE NETWORKING story, i think, felt that there was something questionable in the way this was approached as if the statement had been I LOVE SCHMOOZING ---- or to cite a current commercial i find amusing where all these little kids are talking about what they want to grown up to be "i want to have brown nose" > >> >>>tangent: that commercial is trying to sell me something right ? why have i absolutely no idea what after having seen it a bunch of times ? but, to continue ---- when this i heart networking story was related to me i wasnt so sure that i knew what was meant or whether there was anything at all to be suspicious of ---- hell, my first trip to LA, i was there very briefly and didnt know anybody really so what did i do ? i made a lunch date with marjorie perloff and hung out with douglas messerli at sun & moon had drinks met guy bennett etc ---- managed to track down the elusive standard schaefer and then it was time to go was i networking ? i'm sure that suspicion has been born in hearts of some ---- i guess i'd rather think i was meeting people, making friends even anyway )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:57:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Manfred Obenzinger Subject: Re: Bye In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Alan, Why are you quiting when most of the responses (at least publicly) have been supportive? What if someone doesn't like your work? Much of what you put on line does not interest me, but I've grown fond of searching for the moments that I like -- and I'll defend your right to the death to splurge. Complaining and composing should be second nature by now. No one, complainer or composer, should be demonized -- and I hope no one's distracted from their chosen obsessions. In fact, it's amazing that you've been posting as long as you have without someone taking issue with your work sooner. Consider it a compliment. Hilton Obenzinger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:25:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel M Bettridge Subject: New dates for Ronald Johnson Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do to conflicts, the Ronald Johnson Conference, __Eye, Ear, & Mind: A Conference on the Poetry of Ronald Johnson__ previously set for April 21st & 22end, is now going to take place March 17th & 18th (2000). It is still here at SUNY Buffalo, but the call for papers deadline is now December 1st. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Also, please forward this message to other lists or people that might want to know. thanks, Joel Bettridge ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:28:32 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Eeeek! Eeek!, or, the heron monkey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed (first of all some kind people have asked that these primal displays need to stop, because they are wasting people's time. they should just be continued backchannel if they do need to continue. but first, before i go, a letter from the editor, and a word from our sponsor:) >Do you actually read the things you respond to?? not any less than you when you are at your apex of comprehension, it appears. an added bonus for me: i can read my own posts, too! hmm. let's see now, Mark. (trying to use the war metaphor, to enhance communication with you) if i remember rightly, you insulted Alan's writing in your attempt to defend insults coming from Raphael and you attacked people who were defending alan for being creative and sharing, and also people who are trying to keep people on the list from becoming overly self-conscious when posting. you seem so insistent to play war games, alignments, schools, etc. i ALIGN myself with, well, NOT aligning with people who align AGAINST creative expression, if we must stick to your divisive vocabulary. musicians poets artists people with umbilicals to something greater than flesh and selves. based on the evidence i don't expect you to understand that. if you do, great. primates are not monkeys. oops! nice attempt at humor, though. your least favorite simian, Patrick "eek-a-sponsor" Herron ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:40:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Will Alexander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me who has published Will Alexander's latest books, _Above the Human Nerve Domain_ and _Stratospheric Canticles_, as I think it's called. Plase backchannel -- thanks. Patrick Pritchett pritchpa@silverplume.iix.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:52:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: poetry audience/s In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >no one to impress or hustle, none to >address, only Being & Nothingness, no one to drive the car ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:34:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: language poetry and the academy In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, there's no doubt that the position of language poetry within the academy is changing, as is my own. Standpoint theory taught us what we already knew. To the 80% of professors (such as my not-so-humble self) who teach well outside the gravitational pull of the stellar research universities, the thought that anyone might think that writing on language poetry was a way to advance one's career is, well, nearly unthinkable -- There are people who have good careers and who write about language poetry -- but few of them GOT HIRED in the first place because of writing on LP -- and few will get recruited to a better job because they do -- BUT, as Mark says, that's all changing -- what has always been particularly strange about the discussion with regard to LP and the academy is that the charge that LPs wrote "that way" to appeal to theory-ridden academic critics or to get academic positions preceded the actuality of any of this happening by more than a decade -- perhaps those people I heard complaining along these lines back in '82 or so were simply far more prescient than I am -- But yes, there are now anthologies from major presses with academic sales -- there are now dissertations being written, books accomplished, imitators wrestling with the resistance of their fellows in their creative writing workshops -- all the signs of a significant coterie success -- but none of that is WHY anybody wrote the poetry or WHY any critic chose to write about it (nor is this, any longer, a response to Mark W., whose fine Christmas poem is something everybody should read for the sheer pleasure of reading) poetry is a criticism of life, wrote some regrettably Victorian fellow -- Poetry will continue to act as critique no matter what anybody in the academy does to it -- Discussion of WHY we think SOME LP has been taken up by some FEW academics needs to be carefully distinguished from other activities, like reading the poems -- At the same time, each of us reads always from some ideological WHERE, though it's more an arc of motion than a site, and anatomizing that arc is part of any truly critical reading Professor Beach was last seen teaching at the University of California at Irvine,a very good job indeed -- Anyone taken a glance lately at the list of poets who teach at Irvine? In his introduction to ARTIFICE AND INDETERMINACY, Beach reminds readers of Alan Golding's comments on the "provisionally complicit resistance" of LP. I think Alan's phrase may be the most apt descriptor of the present moment of LP within the academy -- Alan's phrase is also a nearly perfect description of the attitude with which one enters the reading of a new poem -- much more accurate than "willful suspension of disbelief," I believe. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:15:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Symposium: Poetry as Cultural Critique Comments: To: SUBsubpoetics@listbot.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please distribute widely to friends, colleagues, acquaintances and relatives: Symposium: Poetry as Cultural Critique November 5-6, 1999 Sponsored by University of Minnesota (Department of English, Program in Creative Writing, the Humantities Institute, and the College of Liberal Arts), Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics, & Borders Bookstore (Uptown) co-directors, Maria Damon and Mark Nowak Friday, November 5th: 1:30pm, Introductory Remarks by Maria Damon 2:00-3:00pm, Opening Talk Tim Brennan, "The Obscure Reveries of the Inward Gaze" 3:15-4:45pm, Opening Roundtable on "Poetry as Cultural Critique" Panelists: Harryette Mullen, Tim Brennan, C.S. Giscombe Moderator: Maria Damon 7:30pm, Reading at Border's Uptown Introductions, Mark Nowak Readers: Roy Miki, Harryette Mullen Saturday, November 6th 10:00am-11:30am, Talks Juliana Spahr, "'I'm Dracula': Bruce Andrews's 'Confidence Trick'" Harryette Mullen, "Incessant Elusives: The Oppositional Poetry of Will Alexander and Erica Hunt" 1:00pm-2:30pm, Talks Roy Miki, "Unravelling Roy Kiyooka: A Re-assessment Amidst Shifting Boundaries" C. S. Giscombe, "ReCrossing the Prairie State" 3:00pm-4:30pm, Roundtable on "Journals: The Poetics and Politics of Editorship" Panelists: Juliana Spahr, Roy Miki, Mark Nowak Moderator: Eric Lorberer (Rain Taxi Review of Books) 7:30pm, Reading at Border's Uptown Introductions, Mark Nowak Readers: Tim Brennan, Juliana Spahr, C.S. Giscombe Major FUnding for this event has been provided by the McKnight Endowment for the Arts and Humanities ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:28:58 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: language poetry and the academy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was the one who first called language poetry "acadominant," and I still think I was right to do so in the sense that language poetry is THE poetry of prestige among academics. As for Beach, I know nothing about him, but I strongly suspect he's never given as much as a nod toward visual poetry (except whatever he thinks he's found of it in language poetry). --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:23:47 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Instead=20of=20networking=20use=20=85?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jill- As for your problem with the term networking, Abbie Hoffman once told me, "Kid, the bad guys network, we link." as ever, David Kirschenbaum, editor Booglit ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:36:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: bye In-Reply-To: <0.d1480a7.2549019e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" it's a sad day when alan s feels he needs to drop off the list... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:14:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: Lest I remember Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As often, i wholeheartedly agree with Kent, Alan S is producing a singular, unique and monumental work and i've seen very little work as strange and exhilirating as his maybe since Charles Olson, if there's two pieces a day or twenty pieces a day I'm happy to see it. The same is true for Lyn Miller and Kevin Magee, let's have more and Patrick Herron was sending some really new work there for a few days, i hope they weren't parodies, he's found a vein worth mining. forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:54:31 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Ghazal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >See "The Ghazal in America: May I" by Agha Shahid Ali, in _After New >Formalism: Poets on Form, Narrative, and Tradition_, ed. Annie Finch >(Story Line Press, 1999), pp. 123-132. > >Cheers, >David >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >David Kellogg there was a nice mail-art project early this year (belgium)on Ghazal nice catalogue!!//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:57:06 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: sticks and bones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > sticks break bones. Symbols, I guess, don't. > >Well, take TWO sticks, cross them at right angles, and you have something >suitable for a crucifixion. Next, you have The Cross, a symbol. How many >bones have been broken in the name of The Cross? Even more than have been >broken in the name of The Koran, probably. > >David in memory of the Laughing Gnostics and other bods persecuted by dominant religions//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:02:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: poetry audience/s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Miekal, Cyberspace is great but only inexpensive if you can afford access to it. I think yr assumptions are loaded and wrong. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:42:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Little Subject: Re: regionalism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" dan always have difficulty with poets who imagine they're advancing their work by slagging masters with a different poetics. Stafford's no hillbilly, he's an amerkan, he's a poet of soul, he may express sentiments but he's not sentimental and he connects with millions. maybe if you wrote one poem as good as the hundreds of stafford's that have touched me deeply, it might sound less like sour grapes. do the work, you don't make yourself look better by trying to make others look worse. forbidden plateau fallen body dojo 4 song st. nowhere, b.c. V0R1Z0 canadaddy zonko@mindless.com zonko ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:25:53 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: on regionalism... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >the concept that one could create something/anything divorced from their >surrounding is an enviable dictum, > > >but it is hard to imagine unless you think about isolation chambers & >float tanks. > >Im a dyed-in-cheese regionalist, infact a bioregionalist, in fact living >in the heart of the driftless bioregion, the largest unglaciated spot in >the northern hemisphere. no apologies for my writing & art being located >in the place I live. > > >mIEKAL aND, dreamtime village, usa ,,,,Oh come on M A the world is a shrinking oyster,, pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:46:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Toni Simon and Nick Piombino Subject: Wallace on Beach Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm grateful to Jerrold Shiroma for mentioning Myung Mi Kim. Her book "Dura" (Sun and Moon, 1998) along with Christopher Reiner's "Ogling Anchor" (Avec, 1998) and Guy Bennett's "Last Words" ( Sun and Moon,1998) should not be overlooked in the rush of that overly eventful year's quick fading into the millenium. Sorry I haven't had more time to contribute to this list of late which I have been enjoying whenever possible as an appreciative lurker. And hang in there Alan Sondheim. We need you! Best wishes, Nick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:03:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dirk Rowntree Subject: blow them off MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I will presume Dan Raphael can be taken at his word. He states, in a response to the open channel support for Sondheim that “Maybe i should have back channeled to sondheim asking him about his work.” Fine, a slip of the e-tongue. Could happen to anybody. Forgive and forget. It isn't difficult, but never easy enough, to understand that people can be very discouraged by public statements of disregard. Again, let's take Raphael’s plea that he is not in favor of censorship. The fact is that disrespectful, dismissive to insulting comments in public, although not censorious, can throw a charge into air. A charge that can make some people feel unwelcome. I welcome and admire Alan's postings. I appeal to Alan to understand that his posts are valued by a good number of people on the list, ignored by some and disliked by others. I have a folder in which I save posts that think are important. Sondheim’s stuff accounts for about 70 per cent of the folder. The criticisms of Sondheim’s work that I have read on the list have been trite, shallow and irrelevant. The idea that this type of thinking can set a standard for the character and content of what comes at me through the list angers me. The list provides fleeting glimpses of Alan, please don't go off the list because your work has drawn negative flack in public or back channel posts. Maybe you've had more overt attacks on your work on back channel. It's probably harder than I think but, try to blow these turkeys off and continue your work on the list. Dirk Rowntree ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:28:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Alan Sondheim Leaving? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. - Tim Shaner --On Thursday, October 28, 1999, 2:21 PM -0700 "Balestrieri, Peter" wrote: Hello, I can't believe that Alan Sondheim has left the List! If he does indeed stop posting, then I want to say, in a very old-fashioned and sincere way, SHAME on those who've finally managed to make him uncomfortable enough to leave. If you didn't appreciate his efforts or his poetics, why couldn't you just delete his posts? Your attempts at censorship are ugly and brand this List as the exact opposite of it's stated purpose. Once again, the List is safe for insecure, aging rebels and young writers looking for a safe, established avant garde to join. Pete Balestrieri ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:31:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: NEW BOOK: Lauren Gudath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. - tim shaner, poetics list moderator --On Thursday, October 28, 1999, 10:33 AM -0700 "Mary Burger" wrote: NEW from SECOND STORY BOOKS: THE TELEVISION DOCUMENTARY by Lauren Gudath 20 pages, sewn binding, vellum and vinyl cover. "Isolated from the benefits and peek-a-boo regimen cleanliness and godliness the dynamo temperance The specimen: neglect, instinct, mechanics, abandoned surface. Pathetic England." -- from The Television Documentary ALSO AVAILABLE: A SUMMER NEWSREEL by Brenda Coultas 23 pages, hand-stitched binding, vellum and monotone color photo cover. "Those new to Coultas' writing are in for a fine treat: for several years, Coultas has been conducting an in-depth evaluation of the interstices of rural and semi-rural America and A Summer Newsreel is another stunning chapter in the most gloriously idiosyncratic work around." --Laird Hunt NOT RIGHT NOW by Renee Gladman 24 pages, hand-stitched binding, vellum and monotone color photo cover. "Twenty-five small, squarish prose paragraphs from on the bus, on the job, on the street, in the bed. Reading, one finds the world has been forgotten. And in the same moment the world has forgotten one." --Tom Clark SECOND STORY BOOKS publishes works that navigate a relationship between narrative and lyric, interrogating implications of time, place, and subjectivity. Send check payable to MARY BURGER, $5.00 for each book ordered, to: Mary Burger, Editor Second Story Books 85 Henry St. #5 San Francisco CA 94114 or contact SMALL PRESS DISTRIBUTION: http://www.spdbooks.org, tel. 510.524.1668 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:12:38 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: Re: Bye MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Sondheim wrote: > > I think Todd Baron did it for me - "up to five long poems a day." I've > never sent that much out to any list and most of my work isn't partic- > ularly long. > interestingly blind. sometimes i read 'em and like 'em. but geez, they are long. is that relative. i spose. but i get fifty mails a day each and every day. I know some very interesting folks who have unsubed this list because of the amount of mail each day they can't read. this includes poems --;lots of them. or am I naive? those long e-mails with the scattered syntax. I guess they're not poetry! wow! phew! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:27:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: HIGHWIRE READING Comments: To: abdalhayy@aol.com, abirge@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, ayperry@aol.com, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, bdowns@columbiabooks.com, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, booglit@hotmail.com, BStrogatz@aol.com, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, jmchenn@sas.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@NETAXS.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stephen.c.potter@ey.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@MAIL.TJU.EDU, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM 3PM **************************************************************************** **** Highwire Reading Series presents>>>>> M A R K W A L L A C E A. V. C H R I S T I E (ooooh...scary Saturday, Oct. 30, 3PM <<<