========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:29:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Susan Bee at A.I.R. (NYC) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Susan Bee's Beware the Lady: New Paintings and Works on Paper Opens this Tuesday, April 4 and runs through April 22 at A.I.R.Gallery A.I.R. is located at 40 Wooster Street, between Broome and Grand, in SoHo (New York). Hours: Tuesday through Saturday 11am to 6pm. The gallery is located on the second floor. There will be a reception for the artist on Saturday, April 8, from 6-8pm A catalog by John Yau is available by request. (Send requests to Susan Bee .) More information about Susan Bee at http://www.airnyc.org/member/artist.cfm?id=41 For images of her work: From Log Rhytms: http://www.granarybooks.com/books/bernstein/bernstein1.html From Talespin (and keep clicking on image): http://www.granarybooks.com/books/bee/bee1.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:25:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Poetry Criticism Review / Prevallet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Mar 22, 2000 1:30 PM +0000 From: K Prevallet I wrote an essay (too long to post here) on the Poetry Criticism: What Is It For? panel. It is called "Why Poetry Criticism Sucks." If you are interested, you can check it out at: http://users.erols.com/prev/ Also, The Economist this week lists Susan Howe's Peirce Arrow as the 4th best selling poetry book of 1999, according to a poll of Amazon, Barnes&Nobel, Bookseller, and Gotham Bookmart. Isn't that amazing? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:27:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: April Poetry Events in Colorado Springs / Anstett MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message had to be reformatted. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:04:16 +0000 From: "Anstett, Aaron" The following readings will be happening in Colorado Springs in April. An online calendar, including venue links and maps, is available from http://home.earthlink.net/~bknuckles. Saturday, April 1 3:00-5:00 p.m. Pointing Up and Shouting Lo-Ro Caf=E9, Los Robles Nursery 922 W. Costilla=20 Sunday, April 2 8:00-10:00 p.m. Open-Face Poetry Wooglin's Deli 823 N. Tejon Monday, April 3 7:00-9:00 p.m. On the Line The Clean Connection Laundry 1875 S. Academy Blvd. Wednesday, April 5 7:00-9:00 p.m. UCCS Library Building 110 1420 Austin Bluffs Parkway Thursday, April 6 7:00-9:00 p.m. Sterling House 615 Southpointe Ct. Saturday, April 8 4:00-6:00 p.m. Through a Glass Darkly Wines of Colorado 8045 West Highway 24 Sunday, April 9 7:00-9:00 p.m. All Souls Unitarian Church 730 N. Tejon Thursday, April 13 8:00-10:00 p.m. Onion Soup for the Soul La Baguette 2417 W. Colorado Avenue Saturday, April 15 5:00-8:00 p.m. Avant-Garden Business of Art Center 513 Manitou Ave. Sunday, April 16 3:00-5:00 p.m. Starr Kempf Sculpture Garden and Gallery 2057 Pine Grove Ave. Monday, April 17 6:30-8:00 p.m. Old Colorado City Public Library 2418 W. Pikes Peak Ave. Tuesday, April 18 7:30 p.m.-12:00 a.m. Bare-Knuckle Poetry Open Mike The Warehouse 25 W. Cimarron Wednesday, April 19 7:00-9:00 p.m. Life Is a Cabernet Smokebrush Theater Cabaret 235 S. Nevada Ave. Thursday, April 20 6:30-7:30 p.m. Fine Arts Center 30 W. Dale Saturday, April 22 2:00-4:00 p.m. To Coin a Phrase American Numismatic=20 Association 818 N. Cascade Ave. Monday, April 24 7:00-8:30 p.m. Penrose Public Library 20 N. Cascade Tuesday, April 25 7:00-9:00 p.m. Max Kade Theater Armstrong Hall 14 E. Cache La Poudre St. Thursday, April 27 11:30 a.m.-1:00 p.m. Time and Money Cheyenne Mountain Bank 1580 E. Cheyenne Mtn. Blvd. 7:00-8:30 p.m. East Library 5550 N. Union Blvd. Friday, April 28 3:00-5:00 p.m. Open Mike Junior Children's Museum Citadel Mall 750 Citadel Drive East Saturday, April 29 3:00-4:00 p.m. Poetic Justice Pioneers Museum Courtroom 215 S. Tejon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:33:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: query / Baron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 7:43 AM -0800 From: todd baron apologies for this: I'm lost in a world without addresses. A computer crash and the lack of real paper caused the loss of an address list. Alice Notley (e mail would be grand!) Yedda Morrison Raddle Moon yrs, Todd Baron ---------------------- ReMap Readers toddbaron@earthlink.net ps: thank-you. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:01:47 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: to revise or not? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Anyone, I may be in Chicago May 31-June 3. I''ve never been there and I'm thinking of going with my husband to the BEA. (He's in the book biz.) Anyway, I wonder if anyone knows of a place I might read in the area. (Money would be nice, as always, but isn't necessarily essential.) My new Geen Integer book may possibly be out by then. Please backchannel. Since I've never been there, I also welcome suggestions about what to do, where to eat, etc. Thanks, Rae Armantrout (the reviser) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:57:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brendan Lorber Subject: THE ZINC BAR PRESENTS APRIL: NATIONAL NATIONAL AWARENESS MONTH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No one, not even THE ZINC BAR SUNDAY NIGHT READING SERIES, is immune to the fact that National Poetry Month is upon us once again. A fact that guarantees a bit more April-is-the-estest-month coverage of some avenues of poetry & suggests that poetry is something we ought to be more aware of...not so much for the pleasure of it, but, as with tsunamis or STD's, out of a sort of self-defense. Be it to better prepare yourself against the threat of Poetry, or because you rather dig the spectre of verse, we hope you can make it to the Zinc Bar. So that poetry wouldn't overshadow the other important issues facing our nation this month, we briefly considered having our readers speak only on the array of National Months that April also is, namely: National Autism Awareness Month, Alcohol Awareness, Mathematics, Military Appreciation, STD Awareness, Alopecia Areata Awareness, Fair Housing, Youth Sports Safety, Savings, Volunteer, Childcare, Tsunami Awareness, Community College, Occupational Therapy & Soy Foods Awareness. But then we reconsidered. We can't tell you what they'll read, other than that it'll be terrific. But we can tell you who they'll be: SUNDAY APRIL 2: MICHAEL FRIEDMAN + GARY KEENAN SUNDAY APRIL 9: GRIFFIN HANSBURY + MERRY FORTUNE SUNDAY APRIL 16: JENA OSMAN + mysterious guest TUESDAY APRIL 25: SUZAN SHERMAN + SUKI KIM SUNDAY APRIL 30: JOE ELIOT + DAVID CAMERON Brendan Lorber & Douglas Rothschild are your hosts. All the readings begin at 6:37pm on Sunday night, with the occasional Tuesday thrown in to make sure yr paying attention. Remember that we spring forward on April 1! They'll run you a cool $3, which goes right on over to the readers, no questions asked. Books are always available, so bring a little extra. Zinc Bar is downstairs, bred out of the dead land at 90 West Houston Street betw. Laguardia & Thompson. For more information call Douglas at 212.366.2091 or Brendan at 212.533.9317 or lungfull@interport.net On behalf of Douglas Rothschild & everyone at Zinc Bar, I remain steadfast & unswervingly, Brendan Lorber PS: If you'd like to see a report on ISSUE ZERO: THE MAGAZINE CONFERENCE IN NEW YORK CITY, which Douglas & I are still merrily recovering from, go on over to http://www.poetryproject.com/ishzero.html. Over 30 journals & 150 audience members assembled at The St. Mark's Poetry Project, Zinc Bar & Double Happiness, to discuss what they're up to. This is what they said. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:49:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Marriage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII -- The Marriage "I am a man called by the Spirit of God, and I live on stems, roots, and fruit." (Jesus, Slavonic version of Jewish War, translated G. A. Williamson, Josephus, The Jewish War.) put the dog in the house and put the cat in the other house there is a house with a dog in it and there is a house with a cat in it i put the dog in the house and i put the cat in the other house there is a sheep which is a thing and there is a man which is another thing there are two things and two houses with two more things in them there is a boy near the houses the things and he is a boy there is a lake and the boy is not in the lake the houses are not in the lake the boy makes a picture with black ink and a color the boy makes a picture with green ink there is a dog in the house in the picture and you cannot see the dog and you cannot see the cat i put the dog in the house and the cat in the house it is a nice house and a nice dog and a nice cat it is a nice man and a nice sheep and a nice picture it is a nice boy and nice ink by a nice lake and a nice thing there is a moon in the sky behind the house there is a sun in the sky behind the house this is a nice month and it is november this is a nice month and now it is january the house is in the nice month and the other house is in the nice month of the nice month put the cat in the nice month now the cat is in november and the boy is in january it is a nice picture __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:56:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: for Juliana re poetry in dialects,etc / Guitart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2000 6:14 PM -0500 From: Jorge Guitart It wouldn't be a bad idea for students to read something about pidgins and creoles. There is a rather short book by Loreto Todd, named precisely Pidgins and Creoles (Routledge 1974). You mentioned poetry written in idiolects. That means ALL POETRY since everyone speaks an idiolect. best Jorge ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 03:15:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - the most beautiful thing in the world, light gleams light light moving from one to another room there is light flowing from the window light seeping beneath the door, light over the transom ^breathing the light murmurs deep into the floor, walls, ceiling light gleams light, in another room in another room, the ceiling has sent emissions there are dull glows, surfaces murmuring to surfaces nothing is ever in silence, nothing in void nothing in abyssal vacuum nothing ungleaming with the beauty and light of the world ^breathing with illuminations no matter how faint, how subtle how subtle is the shimmer of heat, radio elasticity elasticity of the world murmuring the world the gleaming of light gleaming light _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:21:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: dorky scholarly question, take 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who replied front & backch on this... Tom: they don't *have* to be feminist critiques it's just what I'm specifically interested in, for a specific project at the moment. Maria, thanks much for your reply! 'Dorky scholarly question' was meant to convey my awareness of the problem you mention re: requesting the 'groundbreaking' texts. That is, that it's both dorky and scholarly to believe in such things. Time pressures, as ever, make it necessary sometimes to lean on such formations temporarily -- & I'm in a terrible crunch right now... it would have been clearer for me to say I'm trying to get an idea of what folks THINK are the groundbreaking texts: itself a formation far from unexaminable --- ------------------------- >From: Thomas Bell >Subject: Re: dorky? scholarly question, TAKE 2 > >why would these need to be feminist critiques? ------------------------- >From: Maria Damon >Subject: Re: dorky? scholarly question >i think we need to get away from the concept of "THE groundbreaking texts" >as that concept tends to reify thinking and social movements, associating >ideas instead with a few smart people who published. i genuinely >appreciate your desire to learn; the way the question worded, though, >foregrounds a key problematic in feminist theory and feminist intellectual >practice. ----------------- //----------------------------- http://www.columbia.edu/~bml18/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:24:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Foley Subject: Re: to revise or not? In-Reply-To: <20000329135347.42637.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to Ron & Damion for a couple of really lovely posts. Ron: yes, I think you're absolutely right about process, and it's one of the things that rather puzzled me about the Gardner & Kerouac, just that these guys really are thinking to prescribe to ... everyone? what the process of writing is, should be, must be. (Where Jacques writes >Would >it be very unfair to see Ron Silliman here as naturalizing the code of >artistic representation in which works like Rae Armantrout's and his own >written? I don't understand what the word "naturalizing" is supposed to mean here, but for the rest I assume the answer is "of course", and that writers have always theorized afterwards what they find in their practice. it's nothing new and it's probably the way things ought to be. I can't imagine why Jacques finds this -- does he? -- scandalous somehow.) I wonder if you could say a little more about your claustrophobia. You've really helped me out here. Revision to what effect? that's a great recasting of my question, and it hits really close to home: When I was a young man, Joyce was It, and I thought of writing for a long long time as aspiring to perfection. That's why Kerouac's dogmatic (literally) rejection of that ideal appeals to me despite my doubts, and at any rate I can see how salutary even necessary it may have been to hear someone of demonstrable talent say this in the early 50s. So ... claustrophobia. That suggests being trapped inside the work and what you look for is work that leaves some openings to ---? Should we say "the world"? Maybe to more work, just giving up the idea of the final & definitive statement. ---- Anyway, if you have more thoughts on this or would like to connect it to anything else, I'd like to hear it. **** Damion: Don't write less, write more. I'll read it. The power & glory of revision. I remember reading about Lawrence, I guess he did a fair amount of tinkering with what he'd written but he'd also just start all over and write the whole novel again from scratch, or at least go until he was dissatisfied and break off & then start again. There are partial or complete drafts of like 8 versions of Lady Chatterly I think. That always had a truly heroic ring to it for me. And curiously it's * rewriting* rather than *revising* and as rewriting it's in fact much closer to what Kerouac says is the model. Parker played the same tunes over & over again night after night. Then in the studio there are false starts, and often complete takes from which the master is selected, or in some cases the master is put together from several takes. (There's the time Monk came into the studio one Friday the 13th with a band that included young Sonny Rollins, and he had a composition so difficult they never got a complete take but had to patch one together.) The Graham Greene quote is nice, and your reaction is exactly on target. It's as if how you handle these issues determines whether you're a *real* writer. I think that's definitely what Gardner & Kerouac are both saying, only they give different tests. And their tests would clearly flunk each other. Now you could have a Kerouacian version of the Greene idea: force yourself to crank it out whether you feel like it or not! So I could almost see going with GG here without tying it to any *particular* conception of the process, but only to the idea of devotion to the process whatever it is and *keeping it going*. And speaking from personal experience, rigid ideas about what the process *should* be can keep it from starting at all. Then you're a writer who doesn't write. Ick. Pat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:23:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: answering back Comments: To: JDEBROT@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Jacques-- I appreciate your letter but have to say that I have thought long and hard about these things, have not been as immersed in the jargon as some folks, having chosen midway thru a liberal arts college and a big university to chuck the english dept for the native amer studies, wherein i did plenty of lit crit in a slightly, slightly other discourse (of course we were all in academia). then yes i have been concentrating on "creative" (ugh) writing since. But I wonder if it's _my_ jargon and attitude (slapstick, both?) that bug you rather than my ideas. I do not simply want to change the canon to include more women, although I would not agree that that change is merely about who is invited, so to speak; I think it is also about ideas, and which get considered. I agree that it would be totally weird to say that women don't do theory. I can't imagine that I ever said that. For one thing, my dearest friend (a gal) just finished a big fat dissertation. (And for a school that DERRIDA hangs out at) Cheers, ET ps as i really want to go into list retirement now, i send this as my "final answer". did i win? ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:10:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: invitation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Alan Sondheim and Barry Smylie invite you to join them SAILING on an interactive shockwave day trip. http://168.144.88.176/flash/sailing/sailing01.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:17:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maz881@AOL.COM Subject: basilik MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable this is cute . . . Nature 402, 465 (1999) =A9 Macmillan Publishers Ltd. =20 =20 =20 COMP.BASILISK FAQ=20 DAVID LANGFORD=20 Frequently asked questions about basilisks.=20 1. What is the purpose of this newsgroup? To provide a forum for discussion of basilisk (BLIT) images. Newsnet readers= =20 who prefer low traffic should read comp.basilisk.moderated, which carries=20 only high-priority warnings and identifications of new forms. =20 =20 2. Can I post binary files here? If you are capable of asking this question you MUST immediately read=20 news.announce.newusers, where regular postings warn that binary and=20 especially image files may emphatically not be posted to any newsgroup. Many= =20 countries impose a mandatory death penalty for such action. 3. Where does the acronym BLIT come from? The late unlamented Dr Vernon Berryman's system of maths-to-visual algorithm= s=20 is known as the Berryman Logical Imaging Technique. This reflected the=20 original paper's title: "On Thinkable Forms, with Notes towards a Logical=20 Imaging Technique" (V. Berryman & K. Turner, Nature 409, 340=96342; 2001).=20 Inevitably, the paper has since been suppressed and classified to a high=20 level. 4. Is it true that science-fiction authors predicted basilisks? Yes and no. The idea of unthinkable information that cracks the mind has a=20 long SF pedigree, but no one got it quite right. William Gibson's Neuromance= r=20 (1984), the novel that popularized cyberspace, is often cited for its concep= t=20 of 'black ice' software which strikes back at the minds of hackers =97 but t= his=20 assumes direct neural connection to the net. Basilisks are far more deadly=20 because they require no physical contact. Much earlier, Fred Hoyle's The Black Cloud (1957) suggested that a download=20 of knowledge provided by a would-be-helpful alien (who has superhuman mental= =20 capacity) could overload and burn out human minds. A remarkable near-miss features in The Shapes of Sleep (1962) by J. B.=20 Priestley, which imagines archetypal shapes that compulsively evoke=20 particular emotions, intended for use in advertising. Piers Anthony's Macroscope (1969) described the 'Destroyer sequence', a=20 purposeful sequence of images used to safeguard the privacy of galactic=20 communications by erasing the minds of eavesdroppers. The comp.basilisk community does not want ever again to see another posting=20 about the hoary coincidence that Macroscope appeared in the same year and=20 month as the first episode of the British TV programme Monty Python's Flying= =20 Circus, with its famous sketch about the World's Funniest Joke that causes=20 all hearers to laugh themselves to death. 5. How does a basilisk operate? The short answer is: we mustn't say. Detailed information is classified=20 beyond Top Secret. The longer answer is based on a popular-science article by Berryman (New=20 Scientist, 2001), which outlines his thinking. He imagined the human mind as= =20 a formal, deterministic computational system =97 a system that, as predicted= by=20 a variant of G=F6del's Theorem in mathematics, can be crashed by thoughts th= at=20 the mind is physically or logically incapable of thinking. The Logical=20 Imaging Technique presents such a thought in purely visual form as a basilis= k=20 image which our optic nerves can't help but accept. The result is disastrous= ,=20 like a software stealth-virus smuggled into the brain. 6. Why 'basilisk'? It's the name of a mythical creature: a reptile whose mere gaze can turn=20 people to stone. According to ancient myth, a basilisk can be safely viewed=20 in a mirror. This is not generally true of the modern version =97 although s= ome=20 highly asymmetric basilisks like B-756 are lethal only in unreflected or=20 reflected form, depending on the dominant hemisphere of the victim's brain. 7. Is it just an urban legend that the first basilisk destroyed its creator? Almost everything about the incident at the Cambridge IV supercomputer=20 facility where Berryman conducted his last experiments has been suppressed=20 and classified as highly undesirable knowledge. It's generally believed that= =20 Berryman and most of the facility staff died. Subsequently, copies of basilisk B-1 leaked out. This image is famously know= n=20 as the Parrot for its shape when blurred enough to allow safe viewing. B-1=20 remains the favourite choice of urban terrorists who use aerosols and=20 stencils to spray basilisk images on walls by night. But others were at work on Berryman's speculations. B-2 was soon generated a= t=20 the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and, disastrously, B-3 at MIT. 8. Are there basilisks in the Mandelbrot set fractal? Yes. There are two known families, at symmetrical positions, visible under=20 extreme magnification. No, we're not telling you where. 9. How can I get permission to display images on my website? This is a news.announce.newusers question, but keeps cropping up here. In=20 brief: you can't, without a rarely granted government licence. Using anythin= g=20 other than plain ASCII text on websites or in e-mail is a guaranteed way of=20 terminating your net account. We're all nostalgic about the old, colourful=20 web, and about television, but today's risks are simply too great. 10. Is it true that Microsoft uses basilisk booby-traps to protect Windows=20 2005 from disassembly and pirating? We could not possibly comment. --------------------- a web search showed for "vernon berryman" showed one hit, but link is dead=20 for me bill visualizaciones matem=E1ticas del Dr. Vernon Berryman es conocido... ...t=E9cnica de im=E1genes l=F3gicas" (V. Berryman & K. Turner, Nature,...=20 teleline.terra.es/personal/igorcu/futuro05.htm - Cached - 9k - GoogleScout ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:56:06 PST Reply-To: gaufred@leland.stanford.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: BK Stefans on Hecht, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Brian Kim Stefans writes: >Any Anthony Hecht fans in the audience? > >One thing I think of when I meet a poet, or a question I used to ask, >is: >who were you obsessed with as you were learning to write, or who >seemed to take you over for a time? Brian, I think there's a lot of overlap between your experience and mine and, I would wager, many other poets in our age-and-aesthetic-affiliation cohort: that is, having been influenced heavily early on by the poets in various anthologies like the Oscar Williams collection, or Mark Strand's _Contemporary American Poets_, or even _A Geography of Poets_ (editor ... Fields?). In my case, growing up in Modesto, CA, in the arid Central Valley, I discovered these poets before most of the Black Mountain, Beat, NYS, or Language poetry that was available at the time, so I relied on them for whatever mind-tweaking value they had. Hecht's poems in those books made an impact on me with their formal elegance, too, as did for that matter Wilbur, Lowell, Berryman, Jarrell (oh yeah, _totally_ Jarrell), Justice, etc. These poets went some way toward satisfying a thirst for a certain kind of sonic zing, above all else; their ability to fuse registers from different historical phases, for example, approached a state that would have qualified as "postmodern" if it had been a little less harumphy in ways that suggested the fusion meant something almost religious to them as opposed to the more potential, unhinged meaning it had for me in that unschooled stage of my readership. It was Ashbery who really followed through on that promise, though. That's why when I do go back to Hecht, et al., they don't seem as weird as they used to, and I don't get as much out of them anymore. Except maybe Jarrell. There are poets, however, that I do like to confess to liking partly for the same sort of shock value that you mention: Philip Larkin, who is just so detestable that I can't help being fascinated, especially when his prosody is so damned buttery-smooth; James Tate, who seems like a musician with an instrument he will never fully understand, and who insists on playing long sentimental passages with it, but who can also make noises on it no one else can; Richard Hugo, whose long congested lines gurgle along like a drunken, elegaic old choo-choo train; Ron Koertge, Pasadena freak-out sex-fiend confessional racetrack-addict poet. Also, I tried to write like Lawrence Ferlinghetti for a while in the early eighties. Hope this is interesting to anyone besides myself. Kasey --------------------------------- K. Silem Mohammad Santa Cruz, California (831) 429-4068 gaufred@leland.stanford.edu OR immerito@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:56:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: dorky? scholarly question, TAKE 2 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Brian, try Hutcheon, Linda. "Incredulity toward Metanarrative: Negotiating Postmodernism and Feminisms", Tessera. 1989 Fall, 7, 39-44. which is also found in- Collaboration in the Feminine: Writings on Women and Culture from Tessera. Toronto : Second Story, 1994. edited (i think) by Barbara Godard. This collection helped me figure some of this stuff out and the writing is amazing. Another, yet connected, writer who may help you in terms of a poetics is NIcole Brossard. Her book _The Aeriel Letter_ is an excellent example of writing that slips between the slash of theory/theatre. Also, for me it one of the most producerly texts i have ever read. keep a pen handy because once you start reading you won't want to stop writing. finally, quite some time ago someone referred me to the following to help me surf the waves of contemporary feminist thinking. i'd be interested to hear comments from some of you out there who know a lot more about this stuff than me. Is this an accurate state of affairs? "Let us turn to the work of Julian Kristeva. In her famous essay "Women's time" Kristeva writes that feminism has developed in three broad stages: the first stage is that in which women demand equal access to the patriarchal, symbolic order, desiring equality rather than subjugation. The problem with this approach is that women are seen as no different than men; women are 'to become men.' This approach leads to a complete surrender to patriarchy and its values. It assumes that women must replace being defined by the phallus with her identification with(italicized) the phallus. The second type of feminism is that in which women reject the male symbolic order in the name of difference, resulting in radical feminism (for example,the work of Iragary). Femininity is not only celebrated by radical femininism but also seen as better and essentially different. The third kind of feminism is that in which women reject the dichotomy between masculine and feminine as metaphysical and aim at transcendance of the catagories of sexual difference - or at least recognition of their cultural construction. In this stage scholars analyze the symbolic systems through which we communicate and organise our lives so as to understand how it is that we learn to be what our culture calls 'woman' as against what are called 'men'. Sarup, Madan._Lacan_. U of Toronto P, 1992.139. thanks,\ kevin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:46:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Poets writing criticsm Comments: To: damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Maria, point taken. Tho I didn't mean it in "real life" I more meant to point to the fact that the critical writing I like to read is beautiful in itself. Cheers, ET ps and thanks for your disembodiment post. ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:46:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII -- the text this is not the text but the bones of the text this is the text split, splayed for modification this is the trembling text, waiting for your touch this is the vulnerable text, the languid text this is the text that will do anything for you this is the text that is open for you alone this is the text that gives itself to you this is the text that is your thing (make-local-variable 'whywant) (setq whywant '( (($ whysay) (// subj) might ($ want) (// obj) \?) (how does it feel to want \?) (why should (// subj) get (// obj) \?) (when did (// subj) first ($ want) (// obj) \?) (($ areyou) obsessed with (// obj) \?) (why should i give (// obj) to (// subj) \?) (have you ever gotten me or (// obj) \?) )) (make-local-variable 'canyou) (setq canyou '((of course i can \.) (why should i \?) (what makes you think i would even want to \?) this is not the text but the bones of the text this is the text split, splayed for modification this is the trembling text, waiting for your touch this is the vulnerable text, the languid text this is the text that will do anything for you this is the text that is open for you alone this is the text that gives itself to you this is the text that is your thing (make-local-variable 'want) (setq want '( (want) (desire) (wish) (want) (hope) )) (make-local-variable 'shortlst) (setq shortlst '((can you elaborate on that and look at me \?) (would you love me more if you had to pay \?) (continue) (($ please) continue\, my eyes are very big \.) (go on\, don\'t be afraid of me\, look up my legs \.) (i need a little more detail please \- let me come to you \?) (you\'re being a bit brief\, ($ please) go into detail \.) (can you ($ please) be more explicit\, fill me \?) (and\, ohhhhh \?) (($ please) go into more detail\, think of me \?) (you aren\'t being very talkative today\!) (can you see my pretty pretty ($ cloth) \?) (why must you respond so briefly \?))) i say "this is not the text but the bones of the text" i say to you "this is the text split, splayed for modification" i bare myself to you "this is the trembling text, waiting for your touch" i say "this is the vulnerable text, the languid text" i talk to myself "this is the text that will do anything for you" you tell me "this is the text that is open for you alone" you say to me "this is the text that gives itself to you" you offer me "this is the text that is your thing" -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:02:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: conferring honor on hecht In-Reply-To: <200004010507.AAA07572@halo.angel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This seems to be an opportune moment to announce that the Board of the Poetry Society of America will be conferring the Frost Medal upon the head of Anthony Hecht Friday April 14, 7 pm New School 66 W. 12th Street, New York $10, $5 for members Champagne reception to follow and with book display by many publishers of poetry Also conferring the Shelley Award on Jean Valentine, and honoring the winners of PSA's 10 annual contests, including Lisa Lubasch for the Norma Farber First Book Award, chosen by John Yau. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:52:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: dialects, idiolects, and pidgins In-Reply-To: <200003310448.UAA61480@mail1.sirius.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" does _A Clockwork Orange_ count? For tapes, there're Lord Buckley's numerous jive versions of this and that... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:24:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Rain Taxi - Spring 2000 issues (in print & online) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rain Taxi, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Spring 2000), edited by Eric Lorber out of Minneapolis, is now out. There are two issues; one in print, and one (with entirely different contents) online. The in-print edition features: Interviews with Quincy Troupe and Duncan McLean Features on Francesco Clemente, W.G. Sebald, Post-Apollo Press, Marjorie Welish and Ismael Reed Reviews of new books by John Zorn, David Meltzer, Valerie Wilmer, Dave Eggers, Yvonne Rainer, DuPlessis and Quartermain, Anselm Hollo, Peter Lamborn Wilson & Bill Weinberg, Chris Kraus, Gustaf Sobin, Wanda Coleman, Rachel Loden, Max Jacob, John Koethe, Carl Thayler, Paul Hoover, Michael Friedman, Olivier Cadiot, Pierre JorisDavid Trinidad, Andrea Cohen and many others "Critical Issues: The Ethnopoetic Beard," by Gary Sullivan & Erik Belgum "The New Life: 'The Brooklyn Poets'," by Gary Sullivan Free in stores. Subscriptions: $10/1 year ($20/int'l), to: Rain Taxi, P.O. Box 3840, Minneapolis, MN 55403 The online edition includes: Interview with Charles Henri Ford Reviews of new books by Binnie Kirshenbaum, James Conrad, Dana Levin, Cid Corman, Kimberly Lyons, Barry Wallenstein, Alpay Ulku, Charles Bukowski, &&. The online edition (and subscription ordering forms for the in-print) can be found at: http://www.raintaxi.com Thanks, Gary Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:32:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bruce Morrow/T&W Subject: I Remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I REMEMBER SCHEDULE for APRIL, NATIONAL POETRY MONTH! A collaboration of Teachers & Writers Collaborative (www.twc.org) and Creative Time (www.creativetime.org) ****************************************************************** To subscribe the Daily Dispatch mailing list, go to the website: http://dwa99.creativetime.org/dwa1999/dispatch/subscribe.tcl ****************************************************************** April 1: 1. Ron Padgett, New York, NY; 2. 3rd grade student, Queens, NY April 2: 1. Tara Betts, Chicago, IL; 2. XAX XAX, New York, NY; 3. Lauren Daventi April 3: 1. Keri Higginbottom, Portland, Oregon; 2. Donna Broughton, Chicago, IL April 4: 1. Bruce Morrow, New York, NY April 5: 1. Pete Spence, Victoria, Australia; 2. Kellye Townsend April 6: 1. Georganne Ferrier; 2. David Baratier and Sheila E. Murphy April 7: 1. George Economou; 2. 3rd grade student, Queens, NY; 3. Adriana Ruiz, Los Angeles, CA April 8: 1. P. Anthony Humber, Columbus, MS; 2. Jordan Davis, New York, NY; 3. Caleb Urbina, Los Angeles, CA April 9: 1. Samantha Martinez, Brooklyn, NY; 2. Hugo Avila, Los Angeles April 10: 1. Crystal Porter, Oyster Bay High School, NY; 2. Heidi Weintraub April 11: 1. Sharon J. Lobato April 12: 1. Joyce OBrien; 2. Trishia Wolfe; 3. Ernesto Vergara, Los Angeles, CA April 13: 1. Anna Zak; 2. David Wheeler April 14: 1. Cassandra Byrd April 15: 1. Gregory Gabriel; 2. Aimee Bianca April 16: 1. Alex Cruz; 2. Kristin Bohn April 17: (only) 1. Dgls N.Rthscjhld, New York, NY April 18: (only) 1. Esmeralda Doublette, Grover Cleveland High School, Queens, NY April 19: 1. Anwar Payne; 2. Donalyn Heise; 3. Yesenia M. Avila, Los Angeles April 20: 1. Kyle Pilgrim; 2. Sharon J. Lobato; 3. Dina Esqueda, Los Angeles April 21: 1. Jordan Davis, New York, NY April 22: 1. Anselm Barrigan, New York, NY April 23: 1. Mark Statman, Brooklyn, NY; 2. Alicia Roedl; 3. Lee Ann Brown, New York, NY April 24: 1. Barbara Pucci, Brooklyn, NY; 2. Alba Delia Hernandez, New York, NY; 3. Lizeth Navarro, Los Angeles April 25: 1. Matthew Sharpe, New York, NY April 26: 1. Tom Beaulieu, Boston, MA; 2. Darlene Gold, Larchmont, NY; 3. Samson Lee, Los Angeles April 27: 1. Claire Jimerez, 15, New York, NY; 2. Lauren Daventi, 14, New York, NY; 3. Abiodun Oyewole, New York, NY April 28: 1. David Moor, St. Louis, MO April 29: 1. Lee Ann Brown, New York, NY; 2. Dolores Godinez, Los Angeles; 3. Jesus Perez, Los Angeles April 30: 1. Ron Padgett, New York, NY; 2. by a 3rd grade student, as remembered by Daniel Kane, New York, NY ****************************************************************** THE DAILY DISPATCH: turning the discussion of HIV/AIDS into public property. ****************************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe to the Daily Dispatch mailing list, go to the website: http://dwa99.creativetime.org/dwa1999/dispatch/subscribe.tcl. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:07:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: Bernstein's REPUBLICS OF REALITY / Messerli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message had to be reformatted. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "Douglas Messerli" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:16:56 -0800 Sun & Moon Press would like to announce the publication (finally) of THE REPUBLICS OF REALITY: 1975-1995 by Charles Bernstein. The book is priced at $14.95 (376 pages). The new issue of PUBLISHERS WEEKLY contains a starred review (representing a book of "outstanding quality.") *At once the most paradoxically controversial and popular, accessible and most difficult of the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poets, Bernstein is also the writer of that group who strove early on to experiment with the extremes of its newly minted methods. Whether highlighting the synaesthesis of the word in its isolation or in the plain phrase as it operates in daily life to convey our most banal thoughts, this collection of long out-of-print chapbooks--none of these poems has appeared in any of Bernstein's many break- through volumes, such as ISLETS/IRRITATIONS (1993) or DARK CITY (1994)--provides a unique overview of his career, and adds to the range of his impressive canon of major and minor works. The first poem from the 1976 volume PARSING titled "Sentences," will surprise anyone expecting text-over-speech, as it is practically a litany of anxieties, attitudes and stuttering intensities. This attention to spoken language makes such dense works as "Poem" (from 1978's SHADE) both welcoming and discomforting, ex- pressionistically cinematic but not without its moments of eye-wink satiric narrative. In the short poems collected in THE ABSENT FATHER IN "DUMBO" and RESIDUAL RUBBERNECKING,=20 Bernstein takes the project far from the austere fragments of the early works and deep into a purposely "purple" and unbeautiful lyricism: "Such mortal slurp to strain this sprawl went droopy/ Gadzooks it seems would bend these slopes in girth/None trailing failed to hear the ship looks loopey/Who's seen it nailed uptight right at its berth." Bernstein always manages to find the furthest reaches of any norms of "good taste" (be it mainstream or avant- garde), creating a poetics that reveals the social codes hiding behind all the poetry's tropes and forms. Though many of the latter poems here seem unfocused and minor compared to the fabulous and ambitious early chapbooks, the volume as a whole presents as many promises as it does relevant problems, as many beauties as it does strange new imaginings. You can purchase this book directly from Sun & Moon (at my e-mail djmess@sunmoon.com for a 20% discount, if you mention the PUBLISHERS WEEKLY review in your order. Please also visit our Sun & Moon site: www.sunmoon.com We also invite you to look in on our Green Integer site: www.greeninteger.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:49:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Re: Deluxe Rubber Chicken Issue #5 Now Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is interesting to me as a curator of a women's reading series. I too was thinking of including a man once in a while. -----Original Message----- From: Balestrieri, Peter To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, March 30, 2000 11:26 PM Subject: Deluxe Rubber Chicken Issue #5 Now Online >Forwarded for Mark Peters > >Issue #5 of Deluxe Rubber Chicken is now online, featuring work by Peter >Balestrieri, Michael Basinski, Mary Begley, Coyle and Sharpe, Robert >Creeley, David Daniels, Craig Dworkin, Raymond Federman, Jeff Filipski, >William "Fergie" Ferguson, David Greenberger, NBB, Doug Nufer, Mark Peters, >Sal Salasin, Peter Sanders, Alan Sondheim, Sam Stark, Ficus strangulensis, >Temenuga Trifonova, Mike Topp, Uncle Eddy, Ted Warnell, Arkady Yanishevsky, >and Daniel Zimmerman. > >http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/ezines/deluxe/ > >Mark Peters >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:34:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Jim Andrews Subject: LOSS GLAZIER AT DEFIB, SUNDAY APRIL 2, NOON PST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LOSS GLAZIER AT DEFIB Loss Glazier is the feature at Defib, webartery.com's bi-monthly Web artist interview chat show. Defib happens on Sunday, April 2 at 12 noon pst, aka 3pm est, aka 8pm gmt, aka 6am Queensland. LOSS GLAZIER Poet Loss Pequeño Glazier is Director, Electronic Poetry Center, State University of New York at Buffalo. The Electronic Poetry Center (EPC) is a significant presence on the World-Wide Web, circulating experimental poetry and digital poetry to 7 million users a year from over 90 countries. The EPC is used on the curricula of numerous universities worldwide and seeks to serve a broad spectrum of members of the experimental poetry community. Glazier, a native of the Tejano and Mexican-American culture of south Texas, is the author of the poetry collections Leaving Loss Glazier, The Parts, Small Press: An Annotated Guide, and the forthcoming Digital Poetics (University of Alabama Press). Recent works include "Viz Études," a series of performances that present a reading and projection of visual, kinetic, text, and Java-based compositions for electronic space. Parts of "Viz Études" have recently been performed in San Francisco, New York, Washington DC, Buffalo, Atlanta, Mexico City, and Bergen, Norway. A selection of Glazier's works are available online: his kinetic (and other) poetry; a Real Media file of his performance of his poem for JavaScript "White-faced Bromeliads" at the Digital Arts & Culture '99 conference in Atlanta; and a reading of his recent paper, "The (Im)Material Lightness of E-PoeText", also from DAC '99. TO CONNECT TO DEFIB VIA THE WEB: 1. Go to http://irc.lightcore.com 2. Type your Nickname. 3. Leave the other stuff as is and click Connect. 4. Wait about a minute or more until a full screen of text scrolls. 5. Click List Channels. 6. Double click Defib. 7. You're in, hopefully. TO CONNECT VIA MIRC OR IRCLE: 1. Server: irc.lightcore.com 2. Port: 6667 3. Channel: #defib ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:57:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: twisting cliches In-Reply-To: <200004010511.AAA06497@pony.its.uwo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII there's a wonderful poem by christopher dewdney that is nothing but a successive stringing-together of cliche upon cliche, i think it's called "parasite" from _alter sublime_? not quite what you were asking but worth checking out. bests, t. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:42:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: prison "terms" First, I am brand spankin' new to the list. So let me say how much I've enjoyed reading the archives. I love crackpots and poets ( I am one of each.). I wonder how many of your think the term "avant garde" still useful. I prefer "experimental." Why? So glad you asked. It seems to me that however interesting and valuable the sort of work we do is--whether language centered (Mac Low doesn't find that term very meaningful, since all poetry is language centered.) or lyrical, most if not all of the rules we play by are well established. Is there anything out and about that we comprehend as actually ahead of its time? If so, who and where? Come back. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:55:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: self-promotion I'll be reading at the Cornelia Street Cafe in the West Village, Sunday, April 9, 6:00 pm, if there are any NYers out there with nothing to do that evening. The program is connected to national poetry month. My two collections of poetry, Underworld 1 & 2, Underworld 3 & 4 (S Press) have sold quite well, as has my book length study of Derrida and T.S. Eliot. Free syllables to anyone who identifies him/herself as a list member. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:59:47 -0700 Reply-To: kendall@wordcircuits.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Kendall Subject: FW: TCR 4/3/00 National Poetry Month Feature: Charles Bernstein; Hypertext Poetry Comments: To: htww@lists.ed.ac.uk, CyberMountain , webartery , Wr-Eye-Tings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry for cross-posting. -----Original Message----- From: TCR Newsletter [mailto:newsletter@cortlandreview.com] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 10:37 PM To: kendall@wordcircuits.com Subject: TCR 4/3/00 National Poetry Month Feature: Charles Bernstein THE CORTLAND REVIEW NEWSLETTER April 3, 2000 http://www.cortlandreview.com Dear Readers; In celebration of National Poetry Month, The Cortland Review is happy to announce the publication of our April Feature! This month we are pleased to present a live reading and interview with Charles Bernstein, conducted by David Lehman--all in Real Audio. Be a part of the interactive poetry experience with Robert Kendall's poem, “A Study in Shades” in hypertext, reflect on David Rigsbee's essay about poet Edgar Bowers, and read the next installment of John Kinsella's exclusive autobiographical series entitled, “Random Memories: What I Remember.” In salute to National Poetry Month, many bookstores, libraries, and literary groups around the U.S. are sponsoring poetry readings, festivals, and workshops. Be sure to stop by The Cortland Review to celebrate this month with us! Renee Bandazian Managing Editor ______________ NEWSLETTER CONTENTS ______________ 1. Charles Bernstein Reading and Interview in RealAudio 2. Robert Kendall: A Study in Shades (Hypertext Poem) 3. John Kinsella: Random Memories: What I Remember 4. David Rigsbee: An Elegy to Edgar Bowers 5. Editor-in-Chief Guy Shahar to Speak on Technology and Literature 6. A Poem-a-Day from the Knopf Poetry Center ______________ 1. CHARLES BERNSTEIN: A READING AND INTERVIEW IN REALAUDIO ______________ The full story: http://www.cortlandreview.com/features/00/04/index.html Listen to a selection of poems, followed by the interview with David Lehman. ______________ 2. ROBERT KENDALL: A STUDY IN SHADES (HYPERTEXT POEM) ______________ The full story: http://www.cortlandreview.com/features/00/04/kendall/index.htm Read and explore The Cortland Review's first publication of hypertext poetry, “A Study in Shades,” by Robert Kendall. ______________ 3. DAVID RIGSBEE: AN ELEGY FOR EDGAR BOWERS ______________ The full story: http://www.cortlandreview.com/features/00/04/rigsbee.html >From the elegy: His poems are hard-won gains--or perhaps stand-offs--in which the discipline of poetry as much constrained the poet's freedom as it did subdue intractable subject matter. But as Bowers knew, the poet's freedom is illusory, and in catering to it, he runs the risk of entertaining the very chaos he would elsewhere avoid. ______________ 4. JOHN KINSELLA: RANDOM MEMORIES: WHAT I REMEMBER ______________ The full story: http://www.cortlandreview.com/features/00/04/kinsella.html >From John Kinsella's continuing autobiographical series: At the night club in North Perth, you convince the doorman to let you into the game going on upstairs. It's being run by one of Perth's crime families. You watch, but don't play. You recall AN's Rolls Royce pulling up out front of the Equator Club and selling Goths smack. You recall sitting in a hostel with a guy dying of AIDS trying to get a needle into his dead veins, telling you of his years in the Philippines. ______________ 5. EDITOR-IN CHIEF GUY SHAHAR TO SPEAK ON TECHNOLOGY & LITERATURE ______________ On Wednesday, April 5th, at 6:30 p.m., Guy Shahar, Cortland Review's Editor-in-Chief, will speak on the subjects of technology and literature at: The Segue Foundation 303 East 8th St., #1R New York City, N.Y. This event is sponsored by Poets & Writers (http://www.pw.org) and is titled, “Who is Selling My Poetry?” The cost of a ticket is $10. For more information or to reserve a seat, visit Poets & Writers website: http://www.pw.org/lithoriz/seminar.htm ______________ 6. KNOPF POETRY CENTER ______________ Give yourself a present every day throughout the glorious month of April. Receive free, by e-mail, a Poem-a-Day from such great poets as Sapphire, Sharon Olds, Mark Strand, Langston Hughes, and Kenneth Koch. Sign up now at the Knopf Poetry Center: http://www.randomhouse/com/knopf/poetry/ -- The Cortland Review April, 2000 Feature http://www.cortlandreview.com/features/00/04/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To be removed from this mailing list click on the link below http://www.cortlandreview.com/cgi-bin/mail.cgi?kendall@wordcircuits.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:13:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: APOETICS Excuse me for posting a number of times, but since I'm new to the site, I'm sort of thrilled to be here. Here's the sticky. Bernstein, Perloff, et al have characterized conventional Poetry/New Yorker verse as Romantic extensions. Can't argue with that, but let's agree that Romanticism is rich with methodologies and is hardly contained by that sort of formulaic writing. But my focus is not there. Bernstein et al have argued that Creative Workshop courses in the main train students to imitate New Yorker style because it is formulaic and can be taught. Bernstein et al prefer a poetics that eschews formuli. Okay, but if that's the case, then it is much more difficult to qualify non- formulaic writing since there are (theoretically) no models or rules set in cement. Now follow me here. That means that such writing can be sanctioned only through the market place, by surviving all attacks on its integrity. The Romantic thing is judged not only by the market place, but also by how well it adheres to certain formuli. Those formuli allow for something like an impersonal qualification, whereas the market place is the only impersonal avenue open to avant garde art. Sure, we can pat each other on the back, but that is as subjective as it gets. As an experimental poet who detests New Yorker verse, I wonder if we're not guilty of bad faith when we denegrade the market. Our own poetics seem to make us more dependent on it for that great impersonal pat on the back (awards, immortality, etc.) than are those New Yorker types. Since there are no rules by which we may be judged, aren't we sort of admitting (under our breath) that the market place is the ultimate and only judge of our work? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:23:48 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: twisting cliches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harry Mathews wrote pieces consisting almost entirely of twisted inverted cut & pasted cliches & proverbs sorry cant remember titles or details best tony ----Original Message----- From: Tom Orange To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000 12:10 Subject: twisting cliches >there's a wonderful poem by christopher dewdney that is nothing but a >successive stringing-together of cliche upon cliche, i think it's called >"parasite" from _alter sublime_? > >not quite what you were asking but worth checking out. > >bests, >t. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:52:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Rain Taxi - Spring 2000 issues (in print & online) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i must say i howled aloud w/ laughter at Sullivan's and Belgum's "Critical Issues: The Ethnopoetic Beard." thanks for the larfs fellas. and there's a nice review of La Loden's Hotel Imperium. go gang --md At 3:24 PM -0400 4/3/00, Gary Sullivan wrote: >Rain Taxi, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Spring 2000), edited by Eric Lorber out of >Minneapolis, is now out. There are two issues; one in print, and one (with >entirely different contents) online. > >The in-print edition features: > >Interviews with Quincy Troupe and Duncan McLean > >Features on Francesco Clemente, W.G. Sebald, Post-Apollo Press, Marjorie >Welish and Ismael Reed > >Reviews of new books by John Zorn, David Meltzer, Valerie Wilmer, Dave >Eggers, Yvonne Rainer, DuPlessis and Quartermain, Anselm Hollo, Peter >Lamborn Wilson & Bill Weinberg, Chris Kraus, Gustaf Sobin, Wanda Coleman, >Rachel Loden, Max Jacob, John Koethe, Carl Thayler, Paul Hoover, Michael >Friedman, Olivier Cadiot, Pierre JorisDavid Trinidad, Andrea Cohen and many >others > >"Critical Issues: The Ethnopoetic Beard," by Gary Sullivan & Erik Belgum > >"The New Life: 'The Brooklyn Poets'," by Gary Sullivan > >Free in stores. Subscriptions: $10/1 year ($20/int'l), to: Rain Taxi, P.O. >Box 3840, Minneapolis, MN 55403 > >The online edition includes: > >Interview with Charles Henri Ford > >Reviews of new books by Binnie Kirshenbaum, James Conrad, Dana Levin, Cid >Corman, Kimberly Lyons, Barry Wallenstein, Alpay Ulku, Charles Bukowski, &&. > >The online edition (and subscription ordering forms for the in-print) can be >found at: > >http://www.raintaxi.com > >Thanks, > >Gary Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:10:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: BK Stefans on Hecht, etc. Comments: To: gaufred@leland.stanford.edu In-Reply-To: <20000401215606.27470.qmail@hotmail.com> from "K.Silem Mohammad" at Apr 1, 2000 01:56:06 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian & Kasey, yes, the experience/route you describe is very close to my experience as well: a good drubbing by the canon (including various contemp mainstream poets - for me it was people like, say, James Dickey, Dave Smith, Ed Hirsch, Baron Wormser (who I still think is pretty damn good), Lynn Emanuel (who gave a talk at the Robert Frost Festival in NH in '92 on Language Poetry, and, as I remember it, was sort of shouted down)); then a disavowal of such upon discovery of more interesting work; and finally, ocassionally, that experience Kasey describes: going back to one of these people, opening a book and finding that whatever seemed revelatory at the time had lost most of its luster, paling in comparison to a Perelman or a Howe or a Mullen. Still, I've tried to find little ways to use this or that from my reading at 20 yrs old - and one thing that's helped me alot is Ralph Ellison's sense of how things might be appropriated from a writer whose world view / aesthetic view might not be your own: if there's something there "that seems useful," Ellison says, "I grab it. Eclecticism is the word. Like a jazz musician who creates his own style out of the styles around him, I play it by ear." The eclectic process (the process of *choosing*) transforms what ever is chosen - decontextualizing and then recontextualizing. This is less true in relation to the poets I name above than it is w/ older British poets, say, who in some ways I abhor (Pope): but why not trope Pope? Certainly that act doesn't necessarily imply acceptance, aesthetically, politically, or otherwise. Certainly in Kasey's work there's that "Elizabethan Big Band music" as Bill Berkson puts it; but its estrangement from an Elizabethan, or contemp British or even maudlin academic context is clear; and whatever echoes, appropriated elements of style, are there, have sea-changed: like Ornette Coleman playing abit of Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto in "Congeniality." It's all in the handling of the sample. -m. According to K.Silem Mohammad: > > Brian Kim Stefans writes: > > >Any Anthony Hecht fans in the audience? > > > >One thing I think of when I meet a poet, or a question I used to ask, >is: > >who were you obsessed with as you were learning to write, or who > >seemed to take you over for a time? > > Brian, > > I think there's a lot of overlap between your experience and mine and, I > would wager, many other poets in our age-and-aesthetic-affiliation cohort: > that is, having been influenced heavily early on by the poets in various > anthologies like the Oscar Williams collection, or Mark Strand's > _Contemporary American Poets_, or even _A Geography of Poets_ (editor ... > Fields?). In my case, growing up in Modesto, CA, in the arid Central > Valley, I discovered these poets before most of the Black Mountain, Beat, > NYS, or Language poetry that was available at the time, so I relied on them > for whatever mind-tweaking value they had. Hecht's poems in those books > made an impact on me with their formal elegance, too, as did for that matter > Wilbur, Lowell, Berryman, Jarrell (oh yeah, _totally_ Jarrell), Justice, > etc. These poets went some way toward satisfying a thirst for a certain > kind of sonic zing, above all else; their ability to fuse registers from > different historical phases, for example, approached a state that would have > qualified as "postmodern" if it had been a little less harumphy in ways that > suggested the fusion meant something almost religious to them as opposed to > the more potential, unhinged meaning it had for me in that unschooled stage > of my readership. It was Ashbery who really followed through on that > promise, though. That's why when I do go back to Hecht, et al., they don't > seem as weird as they used to, and I don't get as much out of them anymore. > Except maybe Jarrell. > > There are poets, however, that I do like to confess to liking partly for the > same sort of shock value that you mention: Philip Larkin, who is just so > detestable that I can't help being fascinated, especially when his prosody > is so damned buttery-smooth; James Tate, who seems like a musician with an > instrument he will never fully understand, and who insists on playing long > sentimental passages with it, but who can also make noises on it no one else > can; Richard Hugo, whose long congested lines gurgle along like a drunken, > elegaic old choo-choo train; Ron Koertge, Pasadena freak-out sex-fiend > confessional racetrack-addict poet. > > Also, I tried to write like Lawrence Ferlinghetti for a while in the early > eighties. > > Hope this is interesting to anyone besides myself. > > Kasey > > > --------------------------------- > K. Silem Mohammad > Santa Cruz, California > (831) 429-4068 > gaufred@leland.stanford.edu > OR immerito@hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:45:46 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: real poetry month MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit next 3 mon readings-- Gina Tabasso, Maj Regain, Tom Beckett and also a special reading April 13th at Reality Theatre Dan Raphael-- from Portland OR whose 13th book is out & as Ivan Arguelles (forgive my unumlat) says "Like the best of his contemporaries, Jake Berry or Will Alexander, Raphael takes his language into the swiftly developing chasms of new sci-tech terminology, while maintaining a balance of humor" reads w/ Julie Otten and John M. Bennett Last night Larry's kicked off national poetry month with a reading by Stephen Ellis in which he arrived extremely late with the "poet in ohio" Brian Richards to an eager crowd of 66 people. We started the open early even to satiate the droves of folks in from heavy rain slick streets. After briefly introducing Ellis and reading section 1 of White Gravity to prime the pumped attention span, he started the first set of 25 minutes reading short older pieces, ones found in To Hand, Embodyment Air, the bull head Chapbook and various other pampheteering ephemera. It was odd but noteworthy, to hear him read the shortish. We covered the table in books, chapbooks, and thinner, many visiting the commerce in between. For the second set, Ellis read White Gravity in its entirety, sans ending pictograph, then cracked into yelled out requests from The Long and Short of It, including Sky Blue Pink, which had lift, lost the audience in pilating dependent clause upon dependent clause upon dependent clause until everyone was way out there, the last three couplets to reel back in. This is surely a writer who knows a poem needs only one period, that breath has expired except within a long line frame. Someone in the back yelled out Broken Donut Mystery Cult, things got hectic, anticipatory beer drank, Anton busy for night behind the bar, then full-on quiet, the piece read in its folded out entirety. Much hooting and hollering at the ending. Out here in Ohio, where we take Poetry as a statewide sport, second only to Bluejackets hockey, even Anton, the bartender, loved the reading, staying an extra hour to hear It all, which says tomes. He's beat up poets for reading crappy poetry. There was a heated open this fine evening. Highlights-- In the open before Ellis, Cathy Callahan read a piece about Jesus rightists vs. Students for free thought viz the modicum of Becketts best humourstance, leaving us laughing hard and awkward, Frank Richards sluicing us with a new poem, then post Ellis, Brian Richards dripping the love poem sequence from the Dorn Worc's Aloud/Allowed, and Ex-NY ABC No Rio diva, Julie Otten closed hard with her fantastic round bar poem. Afterwards, a dozen came to my house for the private reading, light libations and a heavy section of work from Tom Bridwell's newest prose book, Stevie Mainard's memorable dead baby poem, a few of mine including Suicide Pact, and a set of 25? pieces from Ellis' March writings which were well received with Shakespearean comments on blank verse perversions. That's my memory of i(I)t, finally, trailing to bed now. Larry's/ 2040 N. High St/ Columbus OH-- 7pm mondays, open afterward-- Funded by the Ohio Arts Council: a statewide agency which supports the arts Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:27:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: formulae MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Re: William James Austin's post apoetics. Doesn't "language poetry" have its own formulae and cliches? The paratactic juxtaposition of a political barb with a metapoetic observation, for example? The twisted or transformed cliche is itself a language poetry cliche. This is not a critique of language poetry by any means. I just don't believe in some pure experimentalism not rooted in particular traditions. There is no zero degree of poetics. It is this "traditional" aspect of experimental poetry that provides a scale of values apart from those set by other marketplace forces (The New Yorker, MFA programs, etc...). On revision vs. non-revision. I think there is a danger of fetishizing either option. Jazz is always brought up in this context as a model of spontaneity, but jazz is very formulaic as well. Improvisation is actually the recombining of formulae. Jazz can be extremely cliche ridden, in fact; even Ornette plays fairly formulaic "Ornetticisms." One ethos of revision produces a fairly labored, "trying-to-hard" effect (e.g. James Merrill). Or it can aim to eliminate formulaic writing... I personally do not revise poetry very much because I would prefer to spend the time writing something else. I would rather throw away a bad poem than work it to death. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:41:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: "Criticism" Request In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ... speaking of which, the third issue of Readme, which will hopefully be up in late April/early May, could sure use some. I've got plenty of interviews, but only a few reviews and one critical essay so far. I'd love to be able to include more. If you've got any ideas of reviews you'd like to do, or maybe a more general critical essay you'd like to make public, please let me know. Also, if you run a literary web site (whether zine or "theme" site), I'd love to get a brief statement on your project for inclusion in the section on web publishing. Here are the interviews, at least what's planned, to give you an idea of "context" or whatever: Alysia Abbott / Anselm Berrigan / Bill Bissett / Mary-anne Breeze / Marcella Durand / Peter Ganick / Mitch Highfill / Carol Mirakove / Mark Peters / Ron Silliman / Brian Kim Stefans Reviews don't have to be of books just published, though they should be more or less current (published within the last couple of years). Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:44:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Re: APOETICS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" William James Austin poses a question I've been thinking about for some time. But the way he formulates the question presupposes that the work cannot be measured by the audience for which it is written. This list is perfect evidence of how work that rejects the mainstream can develop its own samizdat and how samizdat provides unspoken measures for acceptance, which usually tend to be more open than mainstream avenues, whether they be in publishing, in academia, or in "po-biz". Even within academia there are undercurrents of the samizdat. I haven't given much thought to what the criteria for acceptance are around here, but I'm sure they would include attention to theory and history, both inside and outside the poems. I'm sure they would include "going by the musical phrase" (or the visual phrase). So there are metrics that develop within the community and are not dictated by the market. That, of course, is a slightly different question that how our work is accepted in the mainstream, which seems to me to be a pipe dream and not something many of us are shooting for anyway. I've come to the conclusion, then, that "our" audience (that is, the audience of readers engaged in writing published out of the mainstream and which may consist only of "us") is the only real way our work can be "judged". There are a few excellent critics like Prof. Perloff who do real justice to the kind of work written in this and other subcommunities, but that good attention has very little affect "out there" where thousands of workshop poets and english dept. critics are content to read the same tame poets over and over. The New Yorker, APR, the Colorado Review, the Iowa Review, et al., publish poets who, for the most part, come out of, teach in, or write the kind of work that is taught in most academic creative writing programs. We shouldn't expect them to do any differently any more than we should expect Sulfur (RIP), Skanky Possum, or any other publications frequented here to start publishing Gerald Stern. "The market" is predisposed to reject work that rejects the market. How, then, can we expect the market to serve as any kind of metric for that work? If it's simply a matter of "surviving," then this line has done quite well for over 75 years, thank you. I wouldn't consider surviving underground, though, any kind of endorsement by the market. I've not made myself very clear here, so I'll just end by saying communities create sub-markets which are capable of validating and valuating with more integrity than the general market. This has surely been the case throughout the history and development of the arts in the 20th century. Best to all, BC -----Original Message----- From: William James Austin [mailto:Austinwj@FARMINGDALE.EDU] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 3:14 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: APOETICS Excuse me for posting a number of times, but since I'm new to the site, I'm sort of thrilled to be here. Here's the sticky. Bernstein, Perloff, et al have characterized conventional Poetry/New Yorker verse as Romantic extensions. Can't argue with that, but let's agree that Romanticism is rich with methodologies and is hardly contained by that sort of formulaic writing. But my focus is not there. Bernstein et al have argued that Creative Workshop courses in the main train students to imitate New Yorker style because it is formulaic and can be taught. Bernstein et al prefer a poetics that eschews formuli. Okay, but if that's the case, then it is much more difficult to qualify non- formulaic writing since there are (theoretically) no models or rules set in cement. Now follow me here. That means that such writing can be sanctioned only through the market place, by surviving all attacks on its integrity. The Romantic thing is judged not only by the market place, but also by how well it adheres to certain formuli. Those formuli allow for something like an impersonal qualification, whereas the market place is the only impersonal avenue open to avant garde art. Sure, we can pat each other on the back, but that is as subjective as it gets. As an experimental poet who detests New Yorker verse, I wonder if we're not guilty of bad faith when we denegrade the market. Our own poetics seem to make us more dependent on it for that great impersonal pat on the back (awards, immortality, etc.) than are those New Yorker types. Since there are no rules by which we may be judged, aren't we sort of admitting (under our breath) that the market place is the ultimate and only judge of our work? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:45:57 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: to revise or not? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Patrick, This post really got close to the heart of things for me. I too was drawn to Joyce in my youth, & to the idea of a precise work which could encompass everything in minutest detail (thus necessitating revision). I agree that Kerouac's position offers, in its quirky dogmatism, something like a necessary counterbalance to Joycean extremes. The question for me becomes at what point is either position liberating (I don't mean for the writer so much as for the work)-- leading to the moment where, as O'Hara said, refreshment arrives. I don't really trust that either course, followed dogmatically, naturally results in the best writing-- just as I don't trust that any sort of dogmatism can be good for poetry in the long term. While I tend to subscribe to the Kerouac/Coolidge position that the liberatory is a big part of the purpose for writing, I also revise a lot, & see no contradiction in that. Common sense and intuition will tell you when to revise & when to leave it alone. This, for me, is the real question-- one for which some writers never find a satisfactory answer. --Mark DuCharme Patrick Foley writes (ellipsis mine): >but for the rest I assume the answer is "of course", and that writers have >always theorized afterwards what they find in their practice. it's nothing >new and it's probably the way things ought to be.... >Revision to what effect? that's a great >recasting of my question, and it hits really close to home: When I was a >young man, Joyce was It, and I thought of writing for a long long time as >aspiring to perfection. That's why Kerouac's dogmatic (literally) rejection >of that ideal appeals to me despite my doubts, and at any rate I can see >how salutary even necessary it may have been to hear someone of >demonstrable talent say this in the early 50s. > >So ... claustrophobia. That suggests being trapped inside the work and what >you look for is work that leaves some openings to ---? Should we say "the >world"? Maybe to more work, just giving up the idea of the final & >definitive statement. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:02:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Re: formulae MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... I personally do not revise poetry very much because I would prefer to spend > the time writing something else. My thought, too. More about work being ongoing than about discrete poems-as-final-products. Plus, it leaves me room to cannibalize any and all bits and pieces from my own/other people's work & recontextualize, which is the most fun of all. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:41:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jorge Guitart Subject: Re: twisting cliches In-Reply-To: <00b801bf9dcc$3409a600$673761cb@a> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For proverbs See Mathews' Selected Declarations of Dependence (Sun & Moon Press 1996) Terrific. (See also the Oulipo Compendium for more Mathews' stuff and also LOTS of other good stuff.) jorge On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Tony Green wrote: > Harry Mathews wrote pieces consisting almost entirely of twisted inverted > cut & pasted cliches & proverbs sorry cant remember titles or details > > best tony > > ----Original Message----- > From: Tom Orange > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000 12:10 > Subject: twisting cliches > > > >there's a wonderful poem by christopher dewdney that is nothing but a > >successive stringing-together of cliche upon cliche, i think it's called > >"parasite" from _alter sublime_? > > > >not quite what you were asking but worth checking out. > > > >bests, > >t. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:59:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: formulae In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonathan Mayhew writes: "On revision vs. non-revision. I think there is a danger of fetishizing either option. Jazz is always brought up in this context as a model of spontaneity, but jazz is very formulaic as well. Improvisation is actually the recombining of formulae. Jazz can be extremely cliche ridden, in fact; even Ornette plays fairly formulaic "Ornetticisms."" Well, yes and no. Or yes, but for other reasons than the one you give, I think. One has only to recall Coltrane's near-obsessive working-through and extension of harmonic theory (almost to the point of liquidation, see John Schott's excellent analysis in Arcana, ed. John Zorn, Granary Books) to realize that much of the lauded spontaneity of jazz takes extension from a ground of study: of "formulae," certainly, but also of histories, "traditions," other individual and collective performance styles, etc. In part, this is one of the fringe benefits of its being a music nearly all of whose development occurs after the advent of recording, which makes gestural "idiosyncrasy" a site for a certain kind of historical knowledge, dodgy as the status of the recording might be in terms of its relation to an improvised performance. (Witness, in contrast, the elegiac attempts to reconstruct "authentic" Baroque performance practice by a sector of European concert music scholars. Worthwhile or not, (and some of the "authentic-tuning" performances are quite beautiful) it's a fundamentally different endeavor). Other examples might include Ornette's Tchaikovsky quotation, mentioned by Mike Magee, or his more openly parodic "A Fifth of Beethoven," or even his post-Ives vocabulary in "Skies of America." Also Anthony Braxton's attempt to found his music on a series of identifiable languages, starting from the solo saxophone recording "For Alto" (which, music fans, is slated for reissue by Delmark Records in June or July) - vocabularies and syntaxes of musical performance that provide an identifiable and "developable" set of resources for "post-free" jazz performance. And on a different cultural scale, his series of "In the Tradition" recordings, which intertwine "out" innovation with the most "in the pocket" elements of jazz history so deeply that they end up making the argument for a tradition precisely of such departures. In a more immediate sense, there's tenor and soprano player Sam Rivers' assertion that, as a young musician, he studied all the other horn players in order to develop, through reflection, an approach to his instruments unlike anyone else's. All of which is meant by way of adducing some evidence that perhaps a distinction between spontaneity and cliche might not be the most accurate way to locate the "essence" of jazz performance, and perhaps by extension, improvisation in other arts. (Remaining, as I do, both deeply wary and deeply enamored of "using" the poetics of improvised music as an analogy for my own sense of practice as a writer). Your claim that jazz is not usually a matter of unreflective spontaneity seems pretty much right-on to me - with the caveat that most practitioners and knowledgeable critics and theorists of the music don't make a bid for such absence of cerebration, unless there's some definite polemical target at hand. One example of this might be the claims made for and by various "New Thing" players, circa mid-60s, that their music was a form of unfettered expression, a "spontaneous upsurge," to go Sartrean for a moment. But emphasized nearly as often alongside that claim was the collective, historical nature of this expression - jazz being used, performatively, to instantiate an under-represented, under-acknowledged historical claim of African American culture, in the mode of a "breakdown/breakthrough" of norms. Sometimes this took directly political shape, as with, say, Archie Shepp, sometimes a movement toward transcendence, through alternative/creative modes of spiritual practice which stood in a more implicitly critical relation to immanent possibility, as with, say, Coltrane, or Amina Claudione Myers' "return" to gospel, or, in a different mode, Sun Ra. And obviously, the "expression" of a suppressed history/repressed possibility often had recourse to the distinctive musical languages of that tradition in the name of exactly such possibility - again, a tradition of departures. Which is not to say there wasn't plenty of bad, ill-considered free blowing to be had, alongside bad, ill-considered swing, and bad, ill-considered German Enlightenment symphonic music. Of course, a different sort of claim for "free expression" often gets made - still, today, but in a more publicly visible mode from bop though the first generation of the "new thing" - by certain white dissident intellectuals, who are, to put it bluntly, projecting. One thinks of the problematic aspects of Kerouac's reception of jazz, as if the writer who often made the loudest claims for "spontaneity" in verbal art, conscious of his own less-than-total commitment to the moment, his "corrupting" habit of reflection and revision, had to stage another sector of his society as the performance of the "authentic" spontaneity to which his rhetoric aspired. (For all that he's often pretty appalling on jazz, Kerouac _can_ be much more subtle than that - this is not meant as a blanket dismissal. If nothing else, he certainly understood bop rhythm better than Ferlinghetti). More recently, there was the Newsweek review of a performance by Anthony Braxton, who is habitually painted by the jazz press as some sort of disembodied brain with a horn. This reviewer, however, wrote admiringly of Braxton's "muscular" and "violent" attack on his horn, his tone which spoke of "ghettoes" and "streets," his "animal cries." So the usual cold reception afforded one of this country's most significant performer-composers (ok, that's me talking) gets inverted into lavish praise, but only at the expense of a nearly obscene projection that begins by taking musical performance as a form of inarticulate, tragic protest and ends by bordering on a revocation of the performer's humanity. (This anecdote, by the way, comes from Graham Lock's new book Blutopia, which touches on the musical and cultural poetics of Duke Ellington, Sun Ra, and Braxton. Braxton himself refers to the whole complex of projections, ascription of imaginary powers, and pre-emptive deprivations and channelizations, as the "across the tracks syndrome"). A twist or new inflection in your term "formulae" might do it for me - I think here of chemistry, the way in which certain formulae of elements and energy lead to physical state changes or simple mixtures (recombination of cliches), while others lead to chemical reactions that produce new solutions (spontaneity, perhaps, in that the "new" behaves often unpredictably in terms of the several "olds" which react to produce it - a rooted or radical spontaneity). And I'd like to let the fortuitous play on "solution" stand there. Of course, you won't get me to deny that "simple mixture" does often result, even among the music's great practitioners: Ornette's recent Prime Time work, for example, often hits my ears as an extended essay in stylistic entrenchment, so there we might be in agreement. This, for me, is less a function of the electrified, "funk" nature of the band than the inflexibility of its recent rhythm sections and the rather foursquare phrasing that demands - certainly with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and Calvin Weston there was enough flex-time in Prime Time's funk to allow Ornette the space for asymmetry and a kind of "reach". And if it's not simply a matter of the instrumentation, it's even less a matter of the whole musical tradition - jazz isn't, in any essential way, "very formulaic." That it _can_ be thus, and that listeners and practitioners are often willing to distinguish the formulaic moments from the breakthroughs, substantiates something Ornette said in an interview. (This is in the liner notes to something, but once again I'm writing from work - my guess would be the _Beauty Is a Rare Thing_ box set. I'll paraphrase here). Having jettisoned or radically undermined the harmonic basis of your improvisations, the interviewer asks, how do you make sense of this music? How do you know that this is a real practice that you and others can "go on" with, and not just a solipsistic denial of history? Coleman's answer: I realized it was a real thing when I discovered that it was possible, when playing it, to make a mistake. Thinking of this in terms of a relation to history, one might recall Althusser's famous/infamous statement, (paraphrasing again, sorry) to the effect that there are events, and then there's history, and there's a difference. So again, a roundabout way of saying "Yes, but..." Fetishizing spontaneity is certainly a danger, particularly when it makes use of jazz to make its point, and thus misappropriates a large and deeply-rooted set of African American cultural practices and histories to the end of a fairly dubious conclusion. In this, though, I'd say the dubiety of the means seems to me the more dangerous aspect of the formula, since the conclusion itself seems more or less foregone without this prop. Jazz is, whether one's a "fan" or not, an incredibly significant component of the ensemble we might call the poetics of 20th-Century American and even world culture. (For a couple indications of how deep this might go, in terms of the ways jazz practice informs other streams of culture and politics, one could certainly do worse than look at Mike Magee's essay in Kenning #4, Mackey's novels, and George Lewis' forthcoming (?) book on the AACM, along with Val Wilmer's hopefully soon-republished As Serious as Your Life, Baraka's writings on music, etc., etc.) Given this importance, I'd want to insist, with you, that jazz improvisation is not simply a matter of unrehearsed spontaneity - and to insist further, along with Braxton, that to treat it as such is to approach it only in the mode of the exotic. But I'd want to insist on the flip side as well: that there is such a thing as improvisation, that it's not simply a stringing together of quotes and ready riffs, and that it's characteristic of at least a significant portion of what we mislabel "jazz." For a look at how hotly contested this point has been in the music's history (or the history of its reception by listeners better acquainted with Europe's Enlightenment concert music tradition), Cecil Taylor's 1964 panel appearance at Bennington College in Vermont provides an interesting study. In the following exchange between Taylor and Hall Overton, what emerges is a fairly clear sense of how the denial or at least circumscription of the validity of improvisation in jazz becomes a foot in the door for those who, like Overton, seem to want to diminish that tradition and history by an invidious comparison with "serious music." If you'd rather read the whole surviving transcript of the panel, typos and all, the URL is http://www.the-spa.com/mw/. All best, Taylor TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS ------------------------------- Overton: What was the difference between what Duke and what Lennie did? Duke wrote it out, didn't he? Taylor: Oh...That's another problem. What difference does that make? The only thing that we know about - the only thing that the listener knows about - is the sounds that he hears. I don't think it makes any difference that the sound is notated because the symbol doesn't make the music. It is the men striking the instruments, striking the pieces of wood or whatever. It's the sound that we're confronted with, not the symbol. Because in other cultures they don't use our symbols, but they make music, they make sounds. Overton: I would disagree on that one point because I would make a distinction, Cecil, between an idea that's improvised and that just occurs at the moment, and an idea that is already arrived at, preconceived. Taylor: How can an idea come, you know, into being without certain things happening? I mean, if you write a composition - all the great composers that you were talking about which happened to be in a particular school - all the great composers have been improvisors... Overton: That's right. Taylor: Now, the only difference is that certain people wish to notate their improvisations. That's all. And other people improvise - now what does that mean? It simply means that these people who choose to improvise utilize certain physical things in their characteristics and and transpose them to the instruments and, after a certain amount of years, these things take shape in a form...Like the Charlie Parker expression. He uses certain material, certain forms if you will, and he brings these to like his improvisations. Overton: Well, Hadyn used to improvise every morning, I read in a book someplace. I wasn't there, I don't know, but I understand that he did and then in the afternoon he composed... Taylor: Do you make a distinction between composition and improvisation? Overton: That's right. That's exactly the point I want to make. I think that the music he wrote in the after noon was stimulating [sic] by his improvisation in the morning - but I think that it was better music because it was reflective and he spent time on it and he also undoubtedly changed things that he never would have changed if he just improvised them. And he had time to change them. He used more than his intuition in the afternoon - he used his mind and he used intellectual conscious control over his material and that's what I think a composition is, and I believe that improvisation is just the opposite. I believe a truly improvised thing is a truly intuitive thing - a thing of the moment and undoubtedly conditioned by, you know, what you were saying before about your whole background. How you think about your condition - you are going to get certain ideas because of what you are and how you are going to think. But in real improvisation you don't have time to polish those ideas - they come at the moment - they are what they are and that's it because... Taylor: That's what we are and all we can ever be: what we are at the moment. Even if we reflect upon that which we have done in the morning, when we write in the afternoon that's all we are - what we are at the moment. The sum total of the existance is like what it is up to the point that you die - that's all. So that if a cat chooses to improvise, which is, you know, a technical mastery of certain materials put in the framework of certain forms. And we are talking about jazz, so we'll talk about its first form which is the Blues. You cannot tell me - you'll have to prove it to me - that, when after twenty years of playing, that Charlie Parker didn't play the Blues as many different ways as was possible within his experience. And if he had sat down to write this it wouldn't have been any more valid, because, in the final analysis, what we heard was what we heard..[Overton tries to speak, Taylor goes on.] Just a minute, just a minute, what you are negating there is that there is skill in improvisation. What you're negating is that - wait a minute, wait a minute. Polish, you used the work polish before. When one sites down to compose one...it's sort of like a spiritual - this is Sunday - a spiritual thing. You know, you sit down and you start writing and you become reflective and your mind works. But whoever told you that in order to play the piano, or in order to do anything, you don't use your mind? Overton: Nobody told me. I play the piano so I know what you're talking about. Taylor: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Now let's get into this further. You talk about jazz community, you know, and I want you to define what you mean by community and how it actually works in, you know...like, for instance, what do you do? Overton: By jazz community I mean the fact that... Taylor: Perhaps before we go any further, we better define what jazz is. Overton: No, I'm not going to get into that... [Laughter] Taylor: Why not? Why not? How can we talk about the future of something that we can't even define? What are we talking about? Overton: Let me define jazz community. You have to be able to play jazz with someone else. Well if you have four people, that's a community. If you have three... Taylor: Well, Haydn played with somebody too. Was he playing jazz? Overton: No, he played by himself. Taylor: No, no, no - his chamber work, you know, and his symphony, you know. People played together, does that mean it's jazz because they played together? Overton: The idea of a jazz community is that jazz is really based on more than one person playing together, and you have to be able to say, and you have to be able to agree musically. Taylor: Well what is this thing you're calling jazz? That's what I want to know first and now let's get that that [sic] before we start talking about... Overton: I think that would be stupid to get into. We could spend all day - you have your ideas, I have mine... Taylor: Well that's what we're here for, to express ideas, isn't it? Overton: No, I've been on panels like that and it's the most useless thing that I've ever... Taylor: Well what are we doing now but talking about ideas? You mean you're expressing what you think is stupid. You see, so that's an idea, that's an opinion. [Laughter] -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of MAYHEW Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 7:27 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: formulae Re: William James Austin's post apoetics. Doesn't "language poetry" have its own formulae and cliches? The paratactic juxtaposition of a political barb with a metapoetic observation, for example? The twisted or transformed cliche is itself a language poetry cliche. This is not a critique of language poetry by any means. I just don't believe in some pure experimentalism not rooted in particular traditions. There is no zero degree of poetics. It is this "traditional" aspect of experimental poetry that provides a scale of values apart from those set by other marketplace forces (The New Yorker, MFA programs, etc...). On revision vs. non-revision. I think there is a danger of fetishizing either option. Jazz is always brought up in this context as a model of spontaneity, but jazz is very formulaic as well. Improvisation is actually the recombining of formulae. Jazz can be extremely cliche ridden, in fact; even Ornette plays fairly formulaic "Ornetticisms." One ethos of revision produces a fairly labored, "trying-to-hard" effect (e.g. James Merrill). Or it can aim to eliminate formulaic writing... I personally do not revise poetry very much because I would prefer to spend the time writing something else. I would rather throw away a bad poem than work it to death. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:01:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: twisting cliches In-Reply-To: <00b801bf9dcc$3409a600$673761cb@a> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Harry Mathews wrote pieces consisting almost entirely of twisted inverted >cut & pasted cliches & proverbs sorry cant remember titles or details The early 1970s saw a number of poets exploring what could be done with the clich=E9. (It was then that I first heard of, and thus read, Flaubert's wonderful work with the clich=E9s of chat, _The Dictionary of Received Ideas= _ ). Perhaps I will call to mind some titles from that brief era, of books to bear out my statement. Certainly my own "Tight Corners" evidence this interest. I have always found Michael Davidson's ability to stand clich=E9s on their head in an hysterical string of mixed metaphors most enjoyable ; he began to publish then. The short story writer and novelist Sherril Jaffe gave a talk at the SF Art Institute somewhat after the peak of this project, in 1979 I believe, titled "Standing By the Clich=E9." Her books til= l this time, _Scars Make Your Body More Interesting_ and _This Flower Only Blooms Every Hundred Years_ , exemplify her practice in this respect. David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:36:05 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Better than Nascar, one day only MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dan Raphael, John M. Bennett, Julie Otten, will read with David Baratier as host. Thursday, April 13th at Reality Theatre Dan Raphael-- Hidden near the country’s far left corner, dan raphael performs with energy, a wide vocabulary and an onslaught of images and ideas. The most recent of his 13 books are isn’t how we got here and Trees Through the Road Among the over 200 magazines his poems have appeared in are Lost and Found Times, Caliban, 5trope, Shattered Wig and the Pacific Northwestern Spiritual Poetry Anthology. Charles Potts wrote: “There is a new way to write and a new way to read the world in all its stupefying beauty and dan raphael is leading the way in.” Ivan Arguelles (forgive my unumlat) says "Like the best of his contemporaries, Jake Berry or Will Alexander, Raphael takes his language into the swiftly developing chasms of new sci-tech terminology, while maintaining a balance of humor" Straight out of Oregon, a rare 1 time gig. John M. Bennett's most recent book is _Mailer Leaves Ham_ from Pantograph Press in Berkley California, (176pg, 1999). His poems, prose and visual work has appeared in hundreds of journals and magazines worldwide. He is the editor and publisher of the international visual poetry magazine _Lost and Found Times_ and the press Luna Bisonte Prods. Also _Loose Watch: A Lost and Found Times Anthology_ of the magazines first 39 issues was released last year by Invisible Books (London, UK, 205pgs.) Julie Otten has read in Cleveland, Kent, Youngstown, Athens, Portsmouth, Cincinnati, Louisville, NYC, Philly and other cities. Her work has been published in Pudding Magazine, Poetry Motel, Long Shot, Atom Mind, Folio, The Heartlands Today, and other publications. She was awarded a Greater Columbus Arts Council Fellowship in Creative Writing, Poetry for 1995. Julie serves on the committee for The Poetry Forum at Larry's, which she co-coordinated from 1997-1999, and hosted her own reading series, Blab-o-Rama from 1996 through 1998. A forthcoming chapbook, The Courtship of Jim Jones is scheduled for publication in late 2000 by Pudding House Publications. Her first full length collection will be published by Pavement Saw Press. Various pieces by David Baratier have appeared or are forthcoming in Denver Quarterly, Red Brick Review, Jacket, 5 AM, Phoebe, Quarter After Eight, Poet Lore, Slipstream, Riverwind, Fourteen Hills and many others. His poems are anthologized in American Poetry: the Next Generation, from Carnegie Mellon University Press and Clockpunchers: Poetry of the American Workplace from Partisan Press. Collections include: A Run of Letters, 1998, Poetry New York Press and The Fall Of Because, Pudding House, 1999. An epistolary and prose novel _In It What’s in It_ will be released by Spuyten Duyvil in 2001. He is the founder and editor of Pavement Saw Press. Cost $5-- If you want a seat, get there early-- only seats 90, then we let you lie on the concrete slabs. At 7:30, Reality Theater 736 N. pearl st. one block east of buttles and high in between warren and lincoln parking at axis nightclub, but only in the rear lot Columbus Ohio Be well David Baratier call if need to stay over somewhere 614-263-7115 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 21:54:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: seeking "avec" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Poetics List, Could someone please send me the URL for Avec books' web site. Thanks, Pam Brown ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:32:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Anne Carson at T&W Comments: To: ira@angel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Friday, April 7th, at 7 pm Poet Anne Carson will give a slide show-talk and reading on the subject of several paintings by Edward Hopper and by Betsy Goodwin and several Greek words at Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West New York Admission is $8, or $10 includes a subscription to Fence Please arrive early/on time Reception to follow ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:46:01 -0700 Reply-To: degentesh@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katie Degentesh Organization: Pretty good Subject: poetry on MightyWords/Fatbrain. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Read Brandon Downing's recent interview with Jordan Davis online here: http://www1.mightywords.com/find/categories/jordan_davis_int.asp This month, beginning Wednesday 4/5 -- new work, excerpted work and out-of-print work by these and other poets is available for purchase/digital download. Priced from below Stephen King ($2) per chapbook to the Gizzi-ing stratosphere of $3 per poem. Ivan Arguelles -- Nan Cohen -- Jordan Davis -- Rita Dove -- Peter Gizzi -- E.J. Laino -- Sheila E. Murphy -- Linda Smukler -- Ben Steiner Future features include Janet Buck -- John Kinsella -- and others Queries/submissions please contact ximenao@fatbrain.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:49:25 -0600 Reply-To: LMullen@vines.colostate.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Mullen Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 3 Apr 2000 to 4 Apr 2000 (#2000-54) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii tony: Harry Mathews book is called _Selected Declarations of Dependence_: "You can't teach an old dog on the other side of the fence. Every dog has its new tricks, Every dog gathers no moss, Sleeping dogs wait for no man. Every dog is worth two in the bush: Leave no sleeping dog unturned." HM - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - - FROM too long. Original FROM is "Automatic digest processor" ---------------------- Original Message Follows ---------------------- There are 8 messages totalling 462 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. twisting cliches 2. Rain Taxi - Spring 2000 issues (in print & online) 3. BK Stefans on Hecht, etc. 4. real poetry month 5. formulae 6. "Criticism" Request 7. APOETICS 8. to revise or not? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:23:48 +1200 From: Tony Green Subject: Re: twisting cliches Harry Mathews wrote pieces consisting almost entirely of twisted inverted cut & pasted cliches & proverbs sorry cant remember titles or details best tony ----Original Message----- From: Tom Orange To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000 12:10 Subject: twisting cliches >there's a wonderful poem by christopher dewdney that is nothing but a >successive stringing-together of cliche upon cliche, i think it's called >"parasite" from _alter sublime_? > >not quite what you were asking but worth checking out. > >bests, >t. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:52:19 -0600 From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Rain Taxi - Spring 2000 issues (in print & online) i must say i howled aloud w/ laughter at Sullivan's and Belgum's "Critical Issues: The Ethnopoetic Beard." thanks for the larfs fellas. and there's a nice review of La Loden's Hotel Imperium. go gang --md At 3:24 PM -0400 4/3/00, Gary Sullivan wrote: >Rain Taxi, Vol. 5, No. 1 (Spring 2000), edited by Eric Lorber out of >Minneapolis, is now out. There are two issues; one in print, and one (with >entirely different contents) online. > >The in-print edition features: > >Interviews with Quincy Troupe and Duncan McLean > >Features on Francesco Clemente, W.G. Sebald, Post-Apollo Press, Marjorie >Welish and Ismael Reed > >Reviews of new books by John Zorn, David Meltzer, Valerie Wilmer, Dave >Eggers, Yvonne Rainer, DuPlessis and Quartermain, Anselm Hollo, Peter >Lamborn Wilson & Bill Weinberg, Chris Kraus, Gustaf Sobin, Wanda Coleman, >Rachel Loden, Max Jacob, John Koethe, Carl Thayler, Paul Hoover, Michael >Friedman, Olivier Cadiot, Pierre JorisDavid Trinidad, Andrea Cohen and many >others > >"Critical Issues: The Ethnopoetic Beard," by Gary Sullivan & Erik Belgum > >"The New Life: 'The Brooklyn Poets'," by Gary Sullivan > >Free in stores. Subscriptions: $10/1 year ($20/int'l), to: Rain Taxi, P.O. >Box 3840, Minneapolis, MN 55403 > >The online edition includes: > >Interview with Charles Henri Ford > >Reviews of new books by Binnie Kirshenbaum, James Conrad, Dana Levin, Cid >Corman, Kimberly Lyons, Barry Wallenstein, Alpay Ulku, Charles Bukowski, &&. > >The online edition (and subscription ordering forms for the in-print) can be >found at: > >http://www.raintaxi.com > >Thanks, > >Gary Sullivan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:10:09 -0400 From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: BK Stefans on Hecht, etc. Brian & Kasey, yes, the experience/route you describe is very close to my experience as well: a good drubbing by the canon (including various contemp mainstream poets - for me it was people like, say, James Dickey, Dave Smith, Ed Hirsch, Baron Wormser (who I still think is pretty damn good), Lynn Emanuel (who gave a talk at the Robert Frost Festival in NH in '92 on Language Poetry, and, as I remember it, was sort of shouted down)); then a disavowal of such upon discovery of more interesting work; and finally, ocassionally, that experience Kasey describes: going back to one of these people, opening a book and finding that whatever seemed revelatory at the time had lost most of its luster, paling in comparison to a Perelman or a Howe or a Mullen. Still, I've tried to find little ways to use this or that from my reading at 20 yrs old - and one thing that's helped me alot is Ralph Ellison's sense of how things might be appropriated from a writer whose world view / aesthetic view might not be your own: if there's something there "that seems useful," Ellison says, "I grab it. Eclecticism is the word. Like a jazz musician who creates his own style out of the styles around him, I play it by ear." The eclectic process (the process of *choosing*) transforms what ever is chosen - decontextualizing and then recontextualizing. This is less true in relation to the poets I name above than it is w/ older British poets, say, who in some ways I abhor (Pope): but why not trope Pope? Certainly that act doesn't necessarily imply acceptance, aesthetically, politically, or otherwise. Certainly in Kasey's work there's that "Elizabethan Big Band music" as Bill Berkson puts it; but its estrangement from an Elizabethan, or contemp British or even maudlin academic context is clear; and whatever echoes, appropriated elements of style, are there, have sea-changed: like Ornette Coleman playing abit of Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto in "Congeniality." It's all in the handling of the sample. -m. According to K.Silem Mohammad: > > Brian Kim Stefans writes: > > >Any Anthony Hecht fans in the audience? > > > >One thing I think of when I meet a poet, or a question I used to ask, >is: > >who were you obsessed with as you were learning to write, or who > >seemed to take you over for a time? > > Brian, > > I think there's a lot of overlap between your experience and mine and, I > would wager, many other poets in our age-and-aesthetic-affiliation cohort: > that is, having been influenced heavily early on by the poets in various > anthologies like the Oscar Williams collection, or Mark Strand's > _Contemporary American Poets_, or even _A Geography of Poets_ (editor ... > Fields?). In my case, growing up in Modesto, CA, in the arid Central > Valley, I discovered these poets before most of the Black Mountain, Beat, > NYS, or Language poetry that was available at the time, so I relied on them > for whatever mind-tweaking value they had. Hecht's poems in those books > made an impact on me with their formal elegance, too, as did for that matter > Wilbur, Lowell, Berryman, Jarrell (oh yeah, _totally_ Jarrell), Justice, > etc. These poets went some way toward satisfying a thirst for a certain > kind of sonic zing, above all else; their ability to fuse registers from > different historical phases, for example, approached a state that would have > qualified as "postmodern" if it had been a little less harumphy in ways that > suggested the fusion meant something almost religious to them as opposed to > the more potential, unhinged meaning it had for me in that unschooled stage > of my readership. It was Ashbery who really followed through on that > promise, though. That's why when I do go back to Hecht, et al., they don't > seem as weird as they used to, and I don't get as much out of them anymore. > Except maybe Jarrell. > > There are poets, however, that I do like to confess to liking partly for the > same sort of shock value that you mention: Philip Larkin, who is just so > detestable that I can't help being fascinated, especially when his prosody > is so damned buttery-smooth; James Tate, who seems like a musician with an > instrument he will never fully understand, and who insists on playing long > sentimental passages with it, but who can also make noises on it no one else > can; Richard Hugo, whose long congested lines gurgle along like a drunken, > elegaic old choo-choo train; Ron Koertge, Pasadena freak-out sex-fiend > confessional racetrack-addict poet. > > Also, I tried to write like Lawrence Ferlinghetti for a while in the early > eighties. > > Hope this is interesting to anyone besides myself. > > Kasey > > > --------------------------------- > K. Silem Mohammad > Santa Cruz, California > (831) 429-4068 > gaufred@leland.stanford.edu > OR immerito@hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:45:46 +0000 From: David Baratier Subject: real poetry month next 3 mon readings-- Gina Tabasso, Maj Regain, Tom Beckett and also a special reading April 13th at Reality Theatre Dan Raphael-- from Portland OR whose 13th book is out & as Ivan Arguelles (forgive my unumlat) says "Like the best of his contemporaries, Jake Berry or Will Alexander, Raphael takes his language into the swiftly developing chasms of new sci-tech terminology, while maintaining a balance of humor" reads w/ Julie Otten and John M. Bennett Last night Larry's kicked off national poetry month with a reading by Stephen Ellis in which he arrived extremely late with the "poet in ohio" Brian Richards to an eager crowd of 66 people. We started the open early even to satiate the droves of folks in from heavy rain slick streets. After briefly introducing Ellis and reading section 1 of White Gravity to prime the pumped attention span, he started the first set of 25 minutes reading short older pieces, ones found in To Hand, Embodyment Air, the bull head Chapbook and various other pampheteering ephemera. It was odd but noteworthy, to hear him read the shortish. We covered the table in books, chapbooks, and thinner, many visiting the commerce in between. For the second set, Ellis read White Gravity in its entirety, sans ending pictograph, then cracked into yelled out requests from The Long and Short of It, including Sky Blue Pink, which had lift, lost the audience in pilating dependent clause upon dependent clause upon dependent clause until everyone was way out there, the last three couplets to reel back in. This is surely a writer who knows a poem needs only one period, that breath has expired except within a long line frame. Someone in the back yelled out Broken Donut Mystery Cult, things got hectic, anticipatory beer drank, Anton busy for night behind the bar, then full-on quiet, the piece read in its folded out entirety. Much hooting and hollering at the ending. Out here in Ohio, where we take Poetry as a statewide sport, second only to Bluejackets hockey, even Anton, the bartender, loved the reading, staying an extra hour to hear It all, which says tomes. He's beat up poets for reading crappy poetry. There was a heated open this fine evening. Highlights-- In the open before Ellis, Cathy Callahan read a piece about Jesus rightists vs. Students for free thought viz the modicum of Becketts best humourstance, leaving us laughing hard and awkward, Frank Richards sluicing us with a new poem, then post Ellis, Brian Richards dripping the love poem sequence from the Dorn Worc's Aloud/Allowed, and Ex-NY ABC No Rio diva, Julie Otten closed hard with her fantastic round bar poem. Afterwards, a dozen came to my house for the private reading, light libations and a heavy section of work from Tom Bridwell's newest prose book, Stevie Mainard's memorable dead baby poem, a few of mine including Suicide Pact, and a set of 25? pieces from Ellis' March writings which were well received with Shakespearean comments on blank verse perversions. That's my memory of i(I)t, finally, trailing to bed now. Larry's/ 2040 N. High St/ Columbus OH-- 7pm mondays, open afterward-- Funded by the Ohio Arts Council: a statewide agency which supports the arts Be well David Baratier ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:27:14 -0500 From: MAYHEW Subject: formulae Re: William James Austin's post apoetics. Doesn't "language poetry" have its own formulae and cliches? The paratactic juxtaposition of a political barb with a metapoetic observation, for example? The twisted or transformed cliche is itself a language poetry cliche. This is not a critique of language poetry by any means. I just don't believe in some pure experimentalism not rooted in particular traditions. There is no zero degree of poetics. It is this "traditional" aspect of experimental poetry that provides a scale of values apart from those set by other marketplace forces (The New Yorker, MFA programs, etc...). On revision vs. non-revision. I think there is a danger of fetishizing either option. Jazz is always brought up in this context as a model of spontaneity, but jazz is very formulaic as well. Improvisation is actually the recombining of formulae. Jazz can be extremely cliche ridden, in fact; even Ornette plays fairly formulaic "Ornetticisms." One ethos of revision produces a fairly labored, "trying-to-hard" effect (e.g. James Merrill). Or it can aim to eliminate formulaic writing... I personally do not revise poetry very much because I would prefer to spend the time writing something else. I would rather throw away a bad poem than work it to death. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:41:04 -0400 From: Gary Sullivan Subject: "Criticism" Request ... speaking of which, the third issue of Readme, which will hopefully be up in late April/early May, could sure use some. I've got plenty of interviews, but only a few reviews and one critical essay so far. I'd love to be able to include more. If you've got any ideas of reviews you'd like to do, or maybe a more general critical essay you'd like to make public, please let me know. Also, if you run a literary web site (whether zine or "theme" site), I'd love to get a brief statement on your project for inclusion in the section on web publishing. Here are the interviews, at least what's planned, to give you an idea of "context" or whatever: Alysia Abbott / Anselm Berrigan / Bill Bissett / Mary-anne Breeze / Marcella Durand / Peter Ganick / Mitch Highfill / Carol Mirakove / Mark Peters / Ron Silliman / Brian Kim Stefans Reviews don't have to be of books just published, though they should be more or less current (published within the last couple of years). Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:44:27 -0500 From: Brian Clements Subject: Re: APOETICS William James Austin poses a question I've been thinking about for some time. But the way he formulates the question presupposes that the work cannot be measured by the audience for which it is written. This list is perfect evidence of how work that rejects the mainstream can develop its own samizdat and how samizdat provides unspoken measures for acceptance, which usually tend to be more open than mainstream avenues, whether they be in publishing, in academia, or in "po-biz". Even within academia there are undercurrents of the samizdat. I haven't given much thought to what the criteria for acceptance are around here, but I'm sure they would include attention to theory and history, both inside and outside the poems. I'm sure they would include "going by the musical phrase" (or the visual phrase). So there are metrics that develop within the community and are not dictated by the market. That, of course, is a slightly different question that how our work is accepted in the mainstream, which seems to me to be a pipe dream and not something many of us are shooting for anyway. I've come to the conclusion, then, that "our" audience (that is, the audience of readers engaged in writing published out of the mainstream and which may consist only of "us") is the only real way our work can be "judged". There are a few excellent critics like Prof. Perloff who do real justice to the kind of work written in this and other subcommunities, but that good attention has very little affect "out there" where thousands of workshop poets and english dept. critics are content to read the same tame poets over and over. The New Yorker, APR, the Colorado Review, the Iowa Review, et al., publish poets who, for the most part, come out of, teach in, or write the kind of work that is taught in most academic creative writing programs. We shouldn't expect them to do any differently any more than we should expect Sulfur (RIP), Skanky Possum, or any other publications frequented here to start publishing Gerald Stern. "The market" is predisposed to reject work that rejects the market. How, then, can we expect the market to serve as any kind of metric for that work? If it's simply a matter of "surviving," then this line has done quite well for over 75 years, thank you. I wouldn't consider surviving underground, though, any kind of endorsement by the market. I've not made myself very clear here, so I'll just end by saying communities create sub-markets which are capable of validating and valuating with more integrity than the general market. This has surely been the case throughout the history and development of the arts in the 20th century. Best to all, BC -----Original Message----- From: William James Austin [mailto:Austinwj@FARMINGDALE.EDU] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 3:14 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: APOETICS Excuse me for posting a number of times, but since I'm new to the site, I'm sort of thrilled to be here. Here's the sticky. Bernstein, Perloff, et al have characterized conventional Poetry/New Yorker verse as Romantic extensions. Can't argue with that, but let's agree that Romanticism is rich with methodologies and is hardly contained by that sort of formulaic writing. But my focus is not there. Bernstein et al have argued that Creative Workshop courses in the main train students to imitate New Yorker style because it is formulaic and can be taught. Bernstein et al prefer a poetics that eschews formuli. Okay, but if that's the case, then it is much more difficult to qualify non- formulaic writing since there are (theoretically) no models or rules set in cement. Now follow me here. That means that such writing can be sanctioned only through the market place, by surviving all attacks on its integrity. The Romantic thing is judged not only by the market place, but also by how well it adheres to certain formuli. Those formuli allow for something like an impersonal qualification, whereas the market place is the only impersonal avenue open to avant garde art. Sure, we can pat each other on the back, but that is as subjective as it gets. As an experimental poet who detests New Yorker verse, I wonder if we're not guilty of bad faith when we denegrade the market. Our own poetics seem to make us more dependent on it for that great impersonal pat on the back (awards, immortality, etc.) than are those New Yorker types. Since there are no rules by which we may be judged, aren't we sort of admitting (under our breath) that the market place is the ultimate and only judge of our work? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:45:57 PDT From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: to revise or not? Patrick, This post really got close to the heart of things for me. I too was drawn to Joyce in my youth, & to the idea of a precise work which could encompass everything in minutest detail (thus necessitating revision). I agree that Kerouac's position offers, in its quirky dogmatism, something like a necessary counterbalance to Joycean extremes. The question for me becomes at what point is either position liberating (I don't mean for the writer so much as for the work)-- leading to the moment where, as O'Hara said, refreshment arrives. I don't really trust that either course, followed dogmatically, naturally results in the best writing-- just as I don't trust that any sort of dogmatism can be good for poetry in the long term. While I tend to subscribe to the Kerouac/Coolidge position that the liberatory is a big part of the purpose for writing, I also revise a lot, & see no contradiction in that. Common sense and intuition will tell you when to revise & when to leave it alone. This, for me, is the real question-- one for which some writers never find a satisfactory answer. --Mark DuCharme Patrick Foley writes (ellipsis mine): >but for the rest I assume the answer is "of course", and that writers have >always theorized afterwards what they find in their practice. it's nothing >new and it's probably the way things ought to be.... >Revision to what effect? that's a great >recasting of my question, and it hits really close to home: When I was a >young man, Joyce was It, and I thought of writing for a long long time as >aspiring to perfection. That's why Kerouac's dogmatic (literally) rejection >of that ideal appeals to me despite my doubts, and at any rate I can see >how salutary even necessary it may have been to hear someone of >demonstrable talent say this in the early 50s. > >So ... claustrophobia. That suggests being trapped inside the work and what >you look for is work that leaves some openings to ---? Should we say "the >world"? Maybe to more work, just giving up the idea of the final & >definitive statement. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of POETICS Digest - 3 Apr 2000 to 4 Apr 2000 (#2000-54) *********************************************************** - - - - - - - - - - - - End of Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:01:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Kiely and Kirschenbaum NYC Reading Sat. 4/8/2000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This Saturday, April 8, at 4pm, Aaron Kiely and me, David Kirschenbaum, are reading at Double Happiness, 173 Mott Street at Broome, NYC. Down the stairs, between the fish store and the mural of the Indian chief. You may know Aaron as the organizer of the annual Boston Alternative Poetry Festival. Come for the poetry and enjoy the lovely two-for-one drink specials. Hope you can make it. as ever, David _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:26:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: what the ancients recognized, that we are ghosts invisible MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII what the ancients recognized, that we are ghosts invisible we are transparent to gaia & transparent to to dark matter, transparent to neutrinos & transparent to cosmos, cornered in inflationary universes, held taut & visible by logics of the surface, transparent to bacteria, prions, viruses, mother-father bacteria, slime & molecular soup, granularities & strings layered upon granularities, & layers in layers, layers tilted, askew in relation to layers, & layers interpenetrated, layers corroded, & layers imbricated & twisted, we look at ourselves & see ghosts & name them, unknowing, we witness ourselves as eternal, obdurate, opaque & historic, dates sliding against dates & times against times, & no dates & no times at all, & spaces & no spaces, & layered spaces, & spaces layered against spaces, transparent throughout all of them, all of them transparent throughout, ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 02:28:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Descartes' pineal gland now on display Comments: To: Bob Hogg , rae armantrout MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #16: SIANNE NGAI / ABIGAIL CHILD reading & in dialogue, April 13th, 6pm, Writers House, 3805 Locust Walk, Philadelphia / Free & open to the imaginary public sphere. Latest newsletter -- new poetry by, letters to/ from, Ngai & Child -- now available: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/phillytalks Click "archive" for text. You'll need Acrobat plug-in, which is free; a link to get it is at the web site. The PhillyTalks website -- "sous construction" -- is designed by Aaron Levy, by May 1st will feature all back issues of newsletter. The Poets, The Newsletter, The Upcoming Events: Sianne Ngai: poet-critic, author of criteria (O Books), Discredit (Burning Deck), My Novel (Leave Books). Her critical writings on contemporary poetry have appeared in Postmodern Culture, Open Letter, and The Poetry Project Newsletter (a review of Juliana Spahr's Response). Her essay "Raw Matter: A Poetics of Disgust" is also forthcoming in Tell It Slant: Avant-Garde Poetics of the 1990s, an anthology edited by Mark Wallace and Steven Marks. Recent poetic work can be found in Object, edited by Rob Fitterman, Xcp (Cross- Cultural Poetics), edited by Mark Nowak, and a collaboration with Brian Kim Stefans in Interlope, edited by Summi Kaipa. She lives in Brooklyn, NYC. Abigail Child is author of several poetry books, including A Motive for Mayhem (Potes & Poets, 1989), Mob (O Books, c. 1995), Scatter Matrix (Roof, 1996), and essays on contemporary theory in its relation to poetry and film that have appeared in journals including Poetics Journal and Raddle Moon. She is also an award-winning film- and videomaker who has exhibited her work extensively including the Whitney Biennial, the New York Film Festival, and the London Film Festival. She lives in New York City. "Philly Talks" is a construct of dialogue with contemporary poets begun in 1998 with a modernist Mission From Form, set in pre-"renaissance" body time, with future-minded arbitrariness of the memory function in verse. Fifteen faux dialogues -- enough to restore Bakhtin’s faux leg & a Voloshinovic mirror site in a de-Stalinated union -- are constructed to date (list, below). The newsletter presents responses by two poets, each to the other's aura; these are textually available on-line & in hard copy about one week prior to their actualization in the time of Being itself, as event. As event -- at best structurally concise in its evasions & phenomenologically unbounded by individual consciousness -- it is both a reading by the poets, with symbolic pinning of medals on chest of drawers beside dart board, & all-night squatting of the premises, with audience sending up of flares, Spinozist space-time cubism, verbal misappropriations of numerological endorsements, & a vast stomachification & disgorgement of food & wine, thereby extending the hangover of newsletter "conversation". Newsletter back issues testify to a ludic spell: #1: David Bromige / Laura Moriarty #2: Andrew Levy / Jackson Mac Low #3: Jeff Derksen / Ron Silliman #4: Tina Darragh / Jena Osman #5: Alan Gilbert / Rodrigo Toscano #6: Response issue to #3 with Ben Friedlander, Joshua Schuster, Peter Jaeger, Tom Beckett, & others, including further dialogue with Derksen/Silliman & others #7: Brian Kim Stefans / Fred Wah #8: Bruce Andrews / Rod Smith #9: Heather Fuller / Melanie Neilson #10: Steven Farmer / Peter Gizzi #11: Ammiel Alcalay / Tom Mandel #12: Response issue to #2 with Alan Filreis, including further dialogue with Mac Low/Levy & others #13: Rachel Blau DuPlessis / Barrett Watten #14: Dan Farrell / P. Inman #15: Kevin Davies / Diane Ward Forthcoming-- #17: response issue, Summer 2000. To enquire about sending a response, please email soon at lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu #s 18-22, Fall 2000 lineup (t.b.a.). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 03:16:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Descartes' pineal gland now on display MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #16: SIANNE NGAI / ABIGAIL CHILD reading & in dialogue, April 13th, 6pm, Writers House, 3805 Locust Walk, Philadelphia / Free & open to the imaginary public sphere. Latest newsletter -- new poetry by, letters to/ from, Ngai & Child -- now available: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/phillytalks Click "archive" for text. You'll need Acrobat plug-in, which is free; a link to get it is at the web site. The PhillyTalks website -- "sous construction" -- is designed by Aaron Levy, by May 1st will feature all back issues of newsletter. The Poets, The Newsletter, The Upcoming Events: Sianne Ngai: poet-critic, author of criteria (O Books), Discredit (Burning Deck), My Novel (Leave Books). Her critical writings on contemporary poetry have appeared in Postmodern Culture, Open Letter, and The Poetry Project Newsletter (a review of Juliana Spahr's Response). Her essay "Raw Matter: A Poetics of Disgust" is also forthcoming in Tell It Slant: Avant-Garde Poetics of the 1990s, an anthology edited by Mark Wallace and Steven Marks. Recent poetic work can be found in Object, edited by Rob Fitterman, Xcp (Cross- Cultural Poetics), edited by Mark Nowak, and a collaboration with Brian Kim Stefans in Interlope, edited by Summi Kaipa. She lives in Brooklyn, NYC. Abigail Child is author of several poetry books, including A Motive for Mayhem (Potes & Poets, 1989), Mob (O Books, c. 1995), Scatter Matrix (Roof, 1996), and essays on contemporary theory in its relation to poetry and film that have appeared in journals including Poetics Journal and Raddle Moon. She is also an award-winning film- and videomaker who has exhibited her work extensively including the Whitney Biennial, the New York Film Festival, and the London Film Festival. She lives in New York City. "Philly Talks" is a construct of dialogue with contemporary poets begun in 1998 with a modernist Mission From Form, set in pre-"renaissance" body time, with future-minded arbitrariness of the memory function in verse. Fifteen faux dialogues -- enough to restore Bakhtin's faux leg & a Voloshinovic mirror site in a de-Stalinated union -- are constructed to date (list, below). The newsletter presents responses by two poets, each to the other's aura; these are textually available on-line & in hard copy about one week prior to their actualization in the time of Being itself, as event. As event -- at best structurally concise in its evasions & phenomenologically unbounded by individual consciousness -- it is both a reading by the poets, with symbolic pinning of medals on chest of drawers beside dart board, & all-night squatting of the premises, with audience sending up of flares in Spinozist space-time, verbal misappropriations of numerological endorsements, & a vast stomachification & disgorgement of food & wine, thereby extending the hangover of newsletter "conversation". Newsletter back issues testify to a ludic spell: #1: David Bromige / Laura Moriarty #2: Andrew Levy / Jackson Mac Low #3: Jeff Derksen / Ron Silliman #4: Tina Darragh / Jena Osman #5: Alan Gilbert / Rodrigo Toscano #6: Response issue to #3 with Ben Friedlander, Joshua Schuster, Peter Jaeger, Tom Beckett, & others, including further dialogue with Derksen/Silliman & others #7: Brian Kim Stefans / Fred Wah #8: Bruce Andrews / Rod Smith #9: Heather Fuller / Melanie Neilson #10: Steven Farmer / Peter Gizzi #11: Ammiel Alcalay / Tom Mandel #12: Response issue to #2 with Alan Filreis, including further dialogue with Mac Low/Levy & others #13: Rachel Blau DuPlessis / Barrett Watten #14: Dan Farrell / P. Inman #15: Kevin Davies / Diane Ward Forthcoming-- #17: response issue, Summer 2000. To enquire about sending a response, please email soon at lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu #s 18-22, Fall 2000 lineup (t.b.a.). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:47:07 -0400 Reply-To: joris@csc.albany.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Joris/Peyrafitte performances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ANNOUNCEMENT: Next week Pierre Joris & Nicole Peyrafitte will be giving two performances in the San Diego area. Both performances will feature different programs Friday, April 14th 7:30pm at the Porter Troupe Gallery. 301 Spruce Street between 4th and 3rd Avenues in the Balboa Park area of downtown San Diego ($8/$5). Call for more info at (619) 291-9096 Seating Limited Wednesday, April 19th 4:30pm at USCD-Visual Arts Performance Space (Free). Parking on campus is $6 a car. For those who are not familiar with UCSD parking rules there is some further info: Parking on campus often involves parking at an outlying lot and taking a shuttle to where the event is located. If one doesn't know the campus, It is recommended getting to the parking kiosk at least an hour before the event to allow yourself time to get to a parking lot, catch a shuttle and then get to the room for the event. There is extremely limited meter parking, which costs a dollar an hour(machines only take quarters). The parking people are very aggressive about giving tickets to people who park without the proper permits or in loading zones. The Visual Arts Performance Space is located at the rear of the Visual Arts Facility, which is at the intersection of Russell Lane and Lyman Drive. The Gilman entrance kiosk has maps of the campus. The VAP space is in the general vicinity of the Literature Dept. building, if that would help anyone who's trying to figure out which corner of the campus it occupies. http://sites.netscape.net/peyrafitte/index.html http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris How looking forward and squinting at score 6 Madison Place is an important part of the performance Albany NY 12202 Allen Fisher Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 Email: joris@csc.albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:17:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** TRINH T. MINH-HA Thurs April 6 ** GAD HOLLANDER Thurs April 13 ** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETRY CENTER 2000 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents Two collaborative evenings in April with San Francisco Cinematheque at Yerba Buena Center for the Arts =3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3D An evening with TRINH T. MINH-HA Thursday April 6, 7:30 pm, $7 donation @ Yerba Buena Center for the Arts (Mission & 3rd Street) San Francisco presented in collaboration with San Francisco Cinematheque & Center for the Arts TRINH MINH-HA in her unique and beautifully composed film-works (A Tale of Love, Shoot for the Contents, Reassemblage, Naked Spaces--Living is Round, Surname Viet Given Name Nam) is a lyricist of the first order, an imaginative seer and thinker whose art radically remakes narrative modes of filmmaking by invoking then reinventing the tools of the anthropologist, the poet and political witness, the visual artist and the musical composer. * Tonight we offer a rare chance to hear Ms. Trinh read from her written work--the latest manifestation of which, Cinema Interval, is new from Routledge. * She'll also read from the book, Drawn from African Spaces (Indiana University Press, 1996), done in collaboration with Jean-Paul Bourdier, and a portion of the film Naked Spaces--Living is Round will be screened. * This event is supported by Poets & Writers, Inc., through a grant it has received from The James Irvine Foundation. * Note, beginning Friday April 7th and continuing over the three following =46ridays, Trinh Minh-ha's films will be presented in downtown Berkeley at the Fine Arts Cinema, 510-848-1143. * =3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3D An evening with GAD HOLLANDER Thursday April 13, 7:30 pm, $7 donation @ Yerba Buena Center for the Arts (Mission & 3rd Street) San Francisco a reading & film screening presented in collaboration with SF Cinematheque & Center for the Arts GAD HOLLANDER is a poet and filmmaker living in London. * His latest book of poetry, and first to be published in the US, Walserian Waltzes (Avec Books, 2000) is just out--an extraordinary hall-of-mirrors poem-in-prose revolving around the figure of Robert Walser, the great Swiss-German writer of "minimal" fictions whose work stood behind Kafka and others. * We'll also be screening his film Diary of a Sane Man (1990, 85 min.). * "This poet-turned-filmmaker's first feature-length film (made on a budget, he points out, for a 15-minute short, using borrowed equipment and scavenged, odds-and-ends stock) is a serendipitous blend of art and irony, philosophic reflection, double-edged nonsense, improvisation, mythology, and the music of Johann Sebastian Bach. 'In my mind, the music is the main narrative,' Hollander states. 'I've been told that this is a typical first feature film because it has everything in it. That's true, but only because I wanted to have everything in it. I wanted to present a textured complexity.'" (Melissa Drier, Filmfest Journal, Berlin). * Gad Hollander was born in Jerusalem, and spent, as he puts it, "(in/un-) formative years" in Queens, New York. * Tonight's event is his first public appearance in the Bay Area. * =3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3D YERBA BUENA CENTER FOR THE ARTS is located at 701 Mission St. downtown between 3rd & 4th parking in the pay-lot at Mission & 4th from Montgomery BART walk 2 blocks south on 3rd The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from the National Endowment for the Arts, the California Arts Council, Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, Poets & Writers, Inc., and The Fund for Poetry, as well as by the Dean of the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives ~ San Francisco State Univers= ity 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ 415-338-3401 ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:55:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: conferring honor on hecht -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Have you ever heard anything more contradictory? The same society last year awarding Barbara Guest and then this year--- Hecht! Such wild swings seem to nullify any aesthetic credibility. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Rebecca Wolff 04/03/00 12:02pm >>> This seems to be an opportune moment to announce that the Board of the Poetry Society of America will be conferring the Frost Medal upon the head of Anthony Hecht Friday April 14, 7 pm New School 66 W. 12th Street, New York $10, $5 for members Champagne reception to follow and with book display by many publishers of poetry Also conferring the Shelley Award on Jean Valentine, and honoring the winners of PSA's 10 annual contests, including Lisa Lubasch for the Norma Farber First Book Award, chosen by John Yau. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:24:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carol Hamshaw Subject: [Fwd: The trAce Survey into Writers & the Internet] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sue.thomas@dial.pipex.com wrote: > ~Apologies for cross-posting~ > > trAce invites you to participate in the biggest-ever survey about writers and the internet. > > We want to know how the web has affected your writing, your reading, and your professional and personal relationships. We're interested in whether you've earned money from the web; whether you've developed new skills or polished up existing ones; and we're keen to hear about what worries you and what excites you about the internet. > > We hope you'll take 10 minutes to go to http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/question.htm and fill in the online questionnaire. > > If you complete the address form you'll also have a chance to win one of ten copies of the Noon Quilt Book. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/quilt/book/ > > The first batch of results from this survey will be released in June and further discussed at Incubation, the trAce International Conference on Writing and the Internet > > Forward this email.... We want this survey to be as wide-ranging as possible, so please forward it to as many friends and lists as you like. Do link to it from your own site. And you don't have to be a professional writer to participate - it's open to all. > > Thank you for your help. > > Sue Thomas > Director, trAce Online Writing Community > > ++ Don't miss Incubation: the trAce Conference on Writing & the Internet ++ > > 10-12 July 2000, Nottingham, England > > http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/ -- Carol L. Hamshaw Administrator Edgewise ElectroLit Centre http://www.edgewisecafe.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:58:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: announcements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Next week at the Poetry Project: Monday, April 10th at 8 pm JOHN COLETTI & SUSAN MILLS John Coletti is currently collaborating on the book, _A Place to Shin_, with painter Zachary Wollard and a book of comics with artist Jonathan Allen. Susan Mills is the author of _Ruderal Plants in Manhattan_ and _Crows_, a collaboration between 7 Canadian women filmmakers and writers, forthcoming from Ace Art Books. View her artist's books at http://www.poetryproject.com/susan.html Wednesday, April 12th at 8 pm JANET HAMILL & ERIC PRIESTLEY Janet Hamill's collection of short fiction, _The Eternal Cafe_, co-authored with Patti Smith, is forthcoming from Norton. Read one of her poems at http://www.poetryproject.com/hamill.html. Eric Priestley is the author of _Raw Dog_, _Abracadabra_, and _Flame & Smoke: An Authentic Account of the Watts Riots_. His work is presently featured in the latest issue of Poets&Poems at http://www.poetryproject.com/poets.html Friday, April 14th at 10:30 pm PO' JAZZ Jazz Open MIke (read your poem with jazz accompaniment) with featured poets and musicians Golda Soloman, Tom Aalfs, and Crystal Williams. All readings at the Poetry Project, unless otherwise noted, are $7, $4 for students, and $3 for members. No advance tickets. Admission is at the door. The Poetry Project is wheelchair-accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Ave. and 10th St. in Manhattan. If you'd like more information about upcoming readings or membership, or about life in general, please visit our web site at http://www.poetryproject.com *** Public Service Announcement: This Friday, that is, April 7th at 6 pm PRESSED WAFER MANHATTAN DEBUT Daniel Bouchard, William Corbett, and Joseph Torra, the editors of Pressed Wafer, invite you to celebrate the publications of Pressed Wafer #1, Arkansas by Fred Moten, In Residence by Beth Anderson, and in honor of John Wieners's, The Blind See Only this World (co-published with Granary Books). TISCH SCHOOL OF THE ARTS, 721 BROADWAY AT WAVERLY STREET, 12TH FL, DEAN'S CONFERENCE ROOM food, drink, and pressed wafers Saturday at 4 pm: AARON KIELY & DAVID KIRSCHENBAUM at DOUBLE HAPPINESS, 173 Mott, corner of broome, 2 drinks for 1, 2 poets, many bathrooms. *** What is depicted here is zero between the figures and the elsewhere "culled from a nowhere," each the place as it drew the stern too close inside the harbor, eliding the letters. Plan one: as if we're all the whole supporting cast. Plan two: you let your thought drift through the wall, the fire becomes a fringed crimson tableau --Norma Cole, _The Vulgar Tongue_, a+bend books *** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:11:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: APOETICS Comments: To: Brian Clements Thanks, Brian, for you insightful reply. This is fun!! But I still see a problem with audience as judge. On what basis do they judge, since there are no rules? But of course there are rules, and you have suggested a couple of borders (music, visuals)--and avant garde styles can be taught, and are, in the academy. It is also true that most New Yorker types will also never achieve wide public aclaim. And since Mac Low has recently won the $100,000 Tanning Prize from the Academy of American poets, and Charles spoke at the Frost Medal Award to Barbara Guest, how long before we are the establishment? It's already happened. Scary thought. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:14:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: twisting cliches Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Here's an example: Darkness falls like a wet sponge, And Dick gives Genevieve a swift punch In the pajamas. "Aroint thee, witch." Her tongue from previous ecstasy Releases thoughts like little hats. I think Ashbery wrote this in college, so I'll guess 1948. Auden was probably whipping around cliches before that, like in "As I Walked Out One Evening." I've found it online, it's not as cliche-ridden as I imagined but here are the opening stanzas: As I walked out one evening, Walking down Bristol Street, The crowds upon the pavement Were fields of harvest wheat. And down by the brimming river I heard a lover sing Under an arch of the railway: 'Love has no ending. 'I'll love you, dear, I'll love you Till China and Africa meet, And the river jumps over the mountain And the salmon sing in the street, 'I'll love you till the ocean Is folded and hung up to dry And the seven stars go squawking Like geese about the sky. 'The years shall run like rabbits, For in my arms I hold The Flower of the Ages, And the first love of the world. 'But all the clocks in the city Began to whirr and chime: 'O let not Time deceive you, You cannot conquer Time. etc., etc., While this is hardly Language poetry, it is a bit different from a Pound/Browning "persona" in that while Auden is expecting you to read this poem with an awareness that the language is artificial and false, or harkens to some other time, he's not framing it as a recreation of a particular voice. I don't think he's pushing this as some sort of naturalized idiom, it's a little too weird for that. Therefore one is forced to consider the meaning of its artificiality in a sort of open--ended way, or how the particular sentiment he seems to want to put across works most effectively in some rather bogus metrical and lexicographical -- or maybe symbolic -- realm, something alien to our "normal" way of speaking or using language. Anyway, Bernstein's recent writing in ballad and other forms seem to find some sort of predecessor in this kind of writing. Hey, found this on the internet: The Boy Soprano Daddy loves me this I know Cause my granddad told me so Though he beats me blue and black That's because I'm full of crap My mommy she is ultra cool Taught me the Bible's golden rule Don't talk back, do what you're told Abject compliance is as good as gold The teachers teach the grandest things Tell how poetry's words on wings But wings are for Heaven, not for earth Want my advice: hijack the hearse ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 16:49:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** POETRY CENTER * April-May Readings ** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETRY CENTER 2000 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives April-May Calendar Thursday April 6 TRINH T. MINH-HA reading at Center for the Arts SF Cinemateque Collaboration, 7:30 pm Thursday April 13 GAD HOLLANDER reading & film screening Center for the Arts SF Cinemateque collaboration, 7:30 pm Thursday April 27 JOHN A. WILLIAMS reading introduced by Ishmael Reed Unitarian Center, 1187 Franklin at Geary, 7:30 pm. Thursday May 4 ELAINE EQUI & THOM GUNN (1999 Poetry Center Book Award winner & judge) Poetry Center, SFSU, 4:30 pm Thursday May 11 Student awards reading Poetry Center, SFSU, 4:30 pm Thursday May 18 ROBIN BLASER reading & 75th birthday celebration ODC Theater (17th & Shotwell, in the Mission) =3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3D LOCATIONS THE POETRY CENTER is located in Humanities 512 on the SW corner of the San Francisco State University Campus, 1600 Holloway Avenue 2 blocks west of 19th Avenue on Holloway take MUNI's M Line to SFSU or from Daly City BART free shuttle or 28 bus THE UNITARIAN CENTER is located at 1187 Franklin St. at the corner of Geary on-street parking opens up at 7:00 pm from downtown SF take the Geary bus to Franklin YERBA BUENA GARDENS CENTER FOR THE ARTS is located at 701 Mission St. downtown between 3rd & 4th parking in the pay-lot at Mission & 4th from Montgomery BART walk 2 blocks south on 3rd THE ODC THEATER is located at 3153 17th Street at Shotwell in the Mission District cheap, secure parking in the lot across 17th from 16th Street BART walk one block east to S. Van Ness, one block south & 1/2 block east on 17th Readings that take place at The Poetry Center are free of charge. Except as indicated, a $5 donation is requested for readings off-campus-SFSU students and Poetry Center members get in free. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from the National Endowment for the Arts, the California Arts Council, Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, Poets & Writers, Inc., and The Fund for Poetry, as well as by the Dean of the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives ~ San Francisco State Univers= ity 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ 415-338-3401 ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:57:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: APOETICS I'm not certain my last reply went through. I don't think I clicked what I was supposed to click within the allotted time frame. I'm still new to this. I wanted to thank Brian for his insightful reply. But I'm still having a problem with this audience thing. Okay, the list members, for example, may know what they like. But that's not the same as a poem being validated via formulae (e.g., the New Yorker stuff). On what basis does this new audience validate, if there are no laws governing the method (if there is a method)? Does writing out of theory guarantee quality? Are we even concerned with quality? Perhaps qualification is an outdated conceptualization. But then what? Is everything worthy? If so, then once again the market place is da thing that will sort it out, since the Norton Anthology does not offer infinite space. Yes, I am talking about posterity, the space that Charles Bernstein and Jackson Mac Low seem now to occupy. But of course there are models; there are formulae for what we do. And what we do can be taught, and is. I suppose this is what I mean when I wonder if we're guilty of bad faith when conceal how intimately we're connected to the things we criticize. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:20:18 PDT Reply-To: gaufred@leland.stanford.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: conferring honor on hecht -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jeffrey Jullich writes: >Have you ever heard anything more contradictory? The same society >last year awarding Barbara Guest and then this year--- Hecht! > >Such wild swings seem to nullify any aesthetic credibility. What's the contradiction? That those two poets have "incompatible" aesthetics? If credibility means always saluting the same ideological spot on the wall, then consider me incredible. I am pretty incredible, actually. I don't like Hecht much (anymore) or what he stands for poetically either, but I'm not going to denounce someone who sees something of value in his work for that reason alone, and _especially_ if that person also sees the value of Guest. Maybe there could just possibly be something we're missing. Or not, but jeez anyway. --Kasey --------------------------------- K. Silem Mohammad Santa Cruz, California (831) 429-4068 gaufred@leland.stanford.edu OR immerito@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:52:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Shapiro Subject: NYC tribute to Emily Dickinson next Wed.: Richard Howard, Molly Peacock et al MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wednesday, April 12, 2000 7:00pm Free National Arts Club 15 Gramercy Park South (near 20th Street & Park Avenue) New York , New York Take 6 train to 23rd Street To RSVP or for more info: (212) 604-4823 or email: gshapirony@aol.com business attire (jacket & tie for men) required An evening tribute to Emily Dickinson Pulitzer-Prize winning poet & translator Richard Howard ("Trappings"), Rosalyn Jacobs, Molly Peacock ("How to Read a Poem"), Nancy Reynolds (Director of Research for The George Balanchine Foundation, and author of several books including "Repertory in Review: Forty Years of the New York City Ballet") and Sarah Schulman ("Shimmer") join Jan Freeman, Founder of Paris Press, for an evening tribute to Emily Dickinson. This evening, hosted in association with The Writer's Voice, is in celebration of "Open Me Carefully" (Paris Press; 323 pages) which contains --for the first time in print--selections from Emily Dickinson's 36-year correspondence with her sister-in-law Susan Huntington Dickinson. The Writer's Voice is a network of literary art centers at YMCAs across the country. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 02:06:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: "shimmering ontologies of transparency" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "shimmering ontologies of transparency" accordingly, shifting, looking around, coming to mind, intervalling, dia- gramming our always-already-having-disappeared, entering into knowledge of our ghosthood, | dream / real / constituted virtual / the gnawing of dark matter | - symbolic - imaginary - idiocy of the real (practico-inert) | imaginary / as if | imaginary this is the ontology of transparency, the veering among dream and real, among the constituted (programming virtual) and the pervasion of parti- cles and dark matter. and this is also on yet another layer and yet another interpenetration, a veering among the symbolic and imaginary, coupled with the idiocy of the real. and on yet another layer, the as-if, opening into the troubled problematic of the infinite, veering through the imaginary - and yet, on still another, the imaginary, as if there were, as if an itself, as if we were dissolving, constantly, within our very constitution ... so moreso, the desire to be transparent as well, already-ghosting against earth and sky, already in the process of dissolution, emptiness to empti- ness, slight translucency at the edges, peripheral shadows - both towards eternity, both towards death. and towards lassitude, languor, the transparency of reception, opening. and that recognition that we may have been elsewhere-born, hardened, weighted with the world, foreclosed - and here, opened, delicate, we can hardly believe it. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:21:11 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: formulae MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cannibalisation is a kind of rewriting and rewriting makes that which is rewritten something else whatever works, I guess; but with a lot of mine I just keep rewriting, with more and more pieces in process, many in the process of becoming something else L ----- Original Message ----- From: Karen Kelley To: Sent: 04 April 2000 18:02 Subject: Re: formulae | > ... I personally do not revise poetry very much because I would prefer to | spend | > the time writing something else. | | My thought, too. More about work being ongoing than about discrete | poems-as-final-products. Plus, it leaves me room to cannibalize any and all | bits and pieces from my own/other people's work & recontextualize, which is | the most fun of all. | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:33:36 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: seeking "avec" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (www.poetrypress.com/avec) | Dear Poetics List, | Could someone please send me the URL for Avec books' | web site. | Thanks, | Pam Brown ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:33:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: twisting cliches In-Reply-To: <200004061817.OAA16805@interlock.randomhouse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Actually this can also be found in the fall 1999 issue of The Queen Street Quarterly. kevin On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Stefans, Brian wrote: > > Hey, found this on the internet: > > The Boy Soprano > > Daddy loves me this I know > Cause my granddad told me so ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:50:22 -0400 Reply-To: joris@csc.albany.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Isabelle Stengers @ Albany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit COSMOPOLITIQUES April 24-26, 2000 Intensive Seminar with ISABELLE STENGERS William Connolly and Keith Ansell-Pearson A three-day event of public lectures and small-group workshops organized around the work of Isabelle Stengers in philosophy, science and political theory. The program promotes focused interaction with Stengers, Connolly and Ansell-Pearson. ***SPACES STILL AVAILABLE*** Sponsored by the Center for Arts and Humanities, University at Albany-SUNY Convenor: Sandra Buckley Isabelle Stengers is associate professor of philosophy at the Free University of Brussels. She received the grand prize for from the Academie Francaise. She is the author of numerous works, including Powers of Invention, The Invention of the Modern Sciences, and Cosmopolitiques. She is also co-author, with Ilya Prigogine, of Order Out of Chaos, classic text in the theory of self-organizing physical systems. William Connolly is professor of political science at Johns Hopkins University. He is the author of The Augustinian Imperative, The Ethos of Pluralization and Why I am Not a Secularist, among other works of political philosophy. His work explores the conditions for an affirmative politics of pluralism, beyond both liberal tolerance and the reason of state. Keith Ansell Pearson is professor of philosophy at the University of Warwick.He is the author of Nietzsche contra Rousseau, Viroid Life and Germinal Life. He specializes in issues concerning the philosophy of life and the limits of the human raised by the work of Nietzsche, Bergson, and Deleuze and Guattari. PUBLIC LECTURES Keith Ansell-Pearson: "Becoming Virtual" William Connolly: "Nature, Culture, Thinking..." With discussion and response by Isabelle Stengers April 25, 5-7:30 pm, Uptown Campus, Campus Center, Terrace Lounge (Free and open to the public. All are welcome.) WORKSHOPS The pre-conference on April 24th and main workshops on April 25-26 are only open to registered participants, with priority given to graduate students and faculty. Those wishing to apply are asked to send a brief statement of interest (500 words max.) and a short CV to the Center for Arts and Humanities (Fax 518/437-3632, email cah@csc.albany.edu or mail to address below) to arrive no later than April 7. There will be a maximum of 40 registrants selected on the basis of the statement submitted. Successful applicants will be notified on April 9, 2000. A formal registration and reading package will be sent immediately. All workshop participants are asked to read the package in preparation for the pre-conference workshop, which will be facilitated by Jane Bennett (Goucher), Christopher Fynsk (Binghamton), Thomas Lamarre (McGill), Brian Massumi (Albany) and Kim Sawchuk (Concordia). REGISTRATION $40 faculty, $20 graduate students and others (Fee for workshops only. Public lectures are free.) SCHEDULE: Pre-workshop, April 24, 5-7:30pm, Uptown Campus, Standish Board Room (formerly Helderberg Room) of the New Library Building, Third Level Workshops, April 25, 10am-4pm; April 26 10:15 am-1pm; Uptown Campus, Standish Board Room FURTHER INFORMATION: Center for Arts and Humanities, Fine Arts 220, 1400 Washington Avenue, Albany, New York 12222, 518/437-3631 email: cah@csc.albany.edu ''How are we to find a path through the discordant landscape of modern formations of knowledge? What coherence might we find between the mutually contradictory visions, ambitions, and procedures that make it up? My work makes the wager that an ecology of practices might point the way. When I approach such questions as the status of the of physics, the debates on self-organization, or the challenge to the "great divide" between modern an d "archaic" forms of knowledge launched by contemporary ethnopsychiatry, I address myself to the practices from which the formations knowledge arose. No unifying framing of knowledge can demonstrate that the physicists' neutrino can coexist, for example, with the multiple worlds mobilized by ethnopsychiatry. That coexistence nevertheless has meaning independent of the question of tolerance and inaccessible from a posture of skeptical disenchantment. It is only in space of cosmopolitics that these beings may be affirmed together. This is the space of encounter between hopes doubts, frights and dreams that elicited and brought them into being. Through an exploration of our forms of would like to invite the reader to join in an endeavor of ethical experimentation.' --Isabelle Stengers (adapted from the Preamble to Cosmopolitics) 'Isabelle Stengers remains unimpressed by domination, whether it arises from the sciences or from social powers. At every juncture, she seeks sources of invention that have been overlooked.' -Bruno Latour ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:32:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ShaunAnne Tangney Humanities Subject: Re: poetry on the plains In-Reply-To: <38EB7BD9.CB689456@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i don't know if anyone on this list is up here except me, but: reading: Mark Vinz will be reading from his book _Affinities_--the text and photos of which were displayed in the House Rotunda in DC not long ago-- April 13th, 7:30p.m., at the Taube Museum of Art in Minot, N.D. ...yep, that's right: Minot, N.D...! Mark is a terrific person and a damn good poet and we're gald to have him here--if you are w/in the sound of my voice, please join us! ShaunAnne Tangney Minot State University ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 07:56:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Robyn A. Overstreet" Subject: Marilyn Nelson at City College (NYC) Wed. April 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Poet MARILYN NELSON, author of _Homeplace_ and _The Fields of Praise_ will be reading at City College of NY on Wednesday April 12 at 4pm. City College is located at 137th and Amsterdam Avenue. Take the 1/9 train to 137th street and walk one block uphill. The reading will take place in the Rifkin Room on the 6th floor of North Academic Center. For further info, call (212) 650-8182. N.B.: Those interested in poetry in dialect might want to check out _Homeplace_ by Marilyn Nelson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:14:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Cunningham Subject: Re: BK Stefans on Hecht, etc. In-Reply-To: <200004041410.KAA19206@dept.english.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Michael Magee wrote: >for me it was people like, say, James Dickey, Dave Smith, Ed Hirsch . . . Ed Hirsch? My god. HOW TO READ A POEM AND FALL IN LOVE WITH POETRY must haunt you ceaselessly. I'm submitting a film idea to my hollywood friends: character wakes from troubling dreams, the agreeable yellow cover of HOW TO floats above him; elongated, meanacing windows of various chain stores appear; quick shots of his face, terror; he runs down a street; the floating cover follows!; he ducks down an alley; pamphlets attack him around the neck and shoulder; he slumps unconscious; cries and shouts; police come running; body lies prone among printed matter; a passing taxi; oddly familiar face looks from the window; quiet voice-over, rising in volume: "Read a poem to yourself in the middle of the night. Turn on a single lamp and read it while you're alone in an otherwise dark room or while someone sleeps next to you. Say it over to yourself in a place where silence reigns and the din of culture--the constant buzzing noise that surrounds you--has momentarily stopped. This poem has come from a great distance to find you . . . " Brent Cunningham ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:22:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: Re: conferring honor on hecht -Reply In-Reply-To: <200004070411.AAA20845@mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jeffrey: why? I don't mean this belligerently -- it just seems there's a conversation here. I don't particularly share the admiration of Hecht -- but -- I'm all for wild swings, myself, & I don't know that 'aesthetic credibility,' whatever that is, can do without it -- > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:55:14 -0400 > From: Jeffrey Jullich > Subject: conferring honor on hecht -Reply > > Have you ever heard anything more contradictory? The same society > last year awarding Barbara Guest and then this year--- Hecht! > > Such wild swings seem to nullify any aesthetic credibility. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> Rebecca Wolff 04/03/00 12:02pm >>> > This seems to be an opportune moment to announce that the Board of > the > Poetry Society of America will be conferring the Frost Medal upon the > head > of Anthony Hecht > > Friday April 14, 7 pm > New School > 66 W. 12th Street, New York > $10, $5 for members > > Champagne reception to follow and with book display by many > publishers of > poetry > > Also conferring the Shelley Award on Jean Valentine, and honoring the > winners of PSA's 10 annual contests, including Lisa Lubasch for the > Norma > Farber First Book Award, chosen by John Yau. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:33:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: formulae MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Taylor Brady wrote (among other things): "One thinks of the problematic aspects of Kerouac's reception of jazz, as if the writer who often made the loudest claims for "spontaneity" in verbal art, conscious of his own less-than-total commitment to the moment, his "corrupting" habit of reflection and revision, had to stage another sector of his society as the performance of the "authentic" spontaneity to which his rhetoric aspired." This is exactly what I was thinking of: the spurious projection of some fantasy of "spontaneity" onto jazz. I obviously didn't enter into the subtleties of this music, and I'm glad someone else has done so, more eloquently and knowledgably than I could have. I remember hearing Coleman Hawkins 1939 Body and Soul as a young kid. When my father told me it was made up on the spot I took this way too literally. 1. I had never heard the song "body and soul" before. 2. I had never heard Coleman Hawkins play anything else. 3. I had heard very little jazz played. In fact, I assumed that jazz music had ceased to be played (this was the 1960s!). I was pleased to learn later on that I was wrong. So I had absolutely no context to judge the improvisational nature of the solo. Now I listen to this piece of music very differently, but with equal amazement and admiration. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:04:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: APOETICS -- time value of posey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable aren't we sort of admitting=20 (under our breath) that=20 the market place is the ultimate and only judge=20 of our work? Dear William,=20 by basing the world as only market place you seem to forget what poetry is and what it serves. In some ways the market place is all of us no matter how confining an infinite space that is. This placing of poetry into an index based upon sales is dangerous stuff. It is was a true marker Jewel's _A night without Armor_ outdoes even our most successful poets. So what does that infer? Jewel's going to save our soul with her quaint ruffly posey just because a group of dull sixteen year olds find her words to be thought provoking.=20 Make no mistake there arfe always higher order rules in operation, even when lower order is on strike. Poetry has no economies of scale! The world does't need poetry! Some of us find it to be indespensible, an opiate there for it takes on a greater elastisity. Poetry is not insulin. Poetry is exchange yet no intrest is to be applied =20 =20 Time Value of Poesy An analytical model of revolution Thought upon returning from Walden Pond I Let my Thank You be the apple=20 you have sought=20 its under our nose this time=20 II The time value of poetry=20 states that a poem read today is worth more at a future moment in time. =20 Would you rather Keats today or=20 meet in 10 years time=20 The step is found marking time=20 drumming value into poetry=20 0 =3D Present time, today=20 1=3D One period from now=20 10 =3D 10 years from now=20 when time divides horizontal periods become representative as a line today time start with zero internal emotional arrows=20 The higher aims of Cutulus=20 fall dangling wayside=20 Contemptuous of pitiful Bishop=20 (will sadness provide Lowell more =20 tomorrow or remain forever contemporary =20 =20 urgency quandaries becomes nature facing about your future=20 stuff this in your mattress. The Urgency Index rates the priority you place on poetry as a building block for your future in an discipline of unpredictability.=20 The urgency=20 experience/s/ed :=20 when holding fire=20 Unfortunately poetry isn't likely to keep pace with increases in price or costs of living. Adjustment basis' however will provide =85=20 Proverb's of economy=20 invest in a diversified portfolio=20 your investment will be worth more tomorrow than it is today.=20 history shows poetry presents a doubling rate every seven years=20 even a modest portfolio=20 performs well given today's=20 markets=20 a poem saved is a =85=20 Fundamental Concept in Poetry=20 Study of Poetry involves estimating and valuing future emotional flows from stimulus provided at the writing from poet functioning in turn as intermediary agent for said poem, creating in the self a manifold, of sorts, to bear upon a reader at any given moment in the future a similar or greater emotional prominence =85 etceteras!=20 The timing of these emotional flows are random and uncertain due to taste of and prevailing social conditioning of reading audience to individual= reader. The amount of these future emotional flows is uncertain Poetry is not same as Accounting, not same as Finance - Finance tries to maximize value, not accounting profits - Accounting and Economics de-emphasize time and opportunity cost - Accounting strives to measure and express historical events - Finance looks to the future using data from the past To achieve harmony There must be at least one despicable inflow=20 and=20 one outflow of stuffed wonderfill (sic.) you must compare emotion flows from similar points in time How to compare?=20 POETRY AS AN INVESTMENT Future emotional value=20 amounts to poem as investment=20 to grow after one or more periods earning some given rate of interest =20 Basically all this means is that if you put poetry under your mattress or buy into thought as investment, you will earn and your investment, over time, will grow.=20 First, how much poetry will you have after 1 year?=20 You'll still have your Keats and you'll be able to eat from it tomorrow=20 earn interest on that amount at 8% =20 After three years of course you will have=20 Keats x (1.08) x (1.08) x (1.08)=20 You begin to see a pattern here!=20 FV=3D PV (1 + i )^N =B7 FV =3D Future Value of poem read today =B7 PV =3D Present Value of poem in front of you=20 =B7 i =3D the emotional rate per period=20 =B7 n=3D the number of compounding periods=20 Note: Every timeline must have an inflow and an outflow.=20 That means one of these factors (PV,FV or i) needs to be negative.=20 (Look at it from bank perspective =09 Elliot's folly =20 So - can you make a decision now? Which do you prefer?=20 suppose we compare both amounts today rather than=20 10 years from now.=20 HOW WOULD YOU CHOOSE YOUR WORLD ? When you compute future values, you're asking questions like:=20 How to free a muse=20 Nothings going to change my world =20 [Timeline] Present value calculations enable the poetry=20 one needs to be deposited today=20 in order to have a target emotional amount n years from now.=20 Present Value becomes the value today of future emotions=20 discounted at some interest rate calculation=20 future value is just the opposite.=20 The process is of computation and the interest rate used is called the discount rate =20 So, if you want to know=20 how much you have to invest today=20 to reach a life like Thoreau=20 look at the problem this way: =20 We know that for every poem we read today, we will earn annually on those emotions =20 Suppose you invested in Keats today=20 would you expect its themes to haunt=20 your lungs those 10 years over At what annual interest rate would you be earning?=20 Before performing calculations,=20 intuition should tell us something=20 Multiple Emotion Flows:=20 All emotions compound thereby forming a construct discounting periods are not annual interest rates are usually quoted on an annual basis, but you need to know how often interest actually compounds to make correct calculations =85 Continuous Compounding:=20 Banks, Libraries, and other academic investing institutions often quote continuously compounded interest in which the compounding period is infinitely large.=20 Can't use former calculation when m =3D infinite!=20 A perpetuity is a special case in poetry=20 that all authorship strives=20 It is a stream of thought bound to incidental words seeking finding becoming constant=20 continuing forever=20 tenderly down hallways Since a perpetuity has an infinite number of meaning=20 we cannot easily compute its value by discounting Keats one measure=20 The formula simplifies to a formula as such: e APR -1 (e =3D 2.718 - basis for natural logs) InflaTioN iNcreAseS cost oVEr TiMe Something that costs $100 today may cost $103 next year.=20 If you invest your poetry at 8% interest rate your poetry grows by 8%.=20 If, however, inflation averages 8% over that same period,=20 you have not increased your power by 8%,=20 you have just kept pace with inflation.=20 If you had not invested your poetry=20 and instead kept it under the mattress,=20 your words can buy 8% less=20 at the end of the year due to inflation.=20 So it is important to invest your poetry=20 to at least keep pace with inflation=20 at a minimum=20 and beat=20 if possible inflation=20 As time goes on,=20 Time turns its back=20 on Maturity.=20 upon lesser criteria are decisions made=20 III The woman is a model of the poem she represents and she is flames burning yellow autumn trees=20 =09 There are no words for her only color=20 The woman is a model of the image she represents=20 Her voice travels on, or above, as music =09 thus she is muse or the muse, herself=20 or iconographic woman in guise of muse =09 the setting suns shatters over this pond=20 Virga blossoms water vapors for simple dispelling clouds breathing fire, blushing=20 lumps of flesh reflecting this pond=20 a girl shed jeans for the guise of water nymph=20 (and I blushed for intruding upon her seeing herself=20 naked for herself deliberate for sex without dirty old=20 sex=20 =09 The woman is a model trying to represent the world she is modeling=20 The model means nothing for it is only a model=20 the world has weather patterns we see as seasonal beauty=20 =09 art cannot portray the world it lives in=20 Therefore freedom is a muse kicking leaves=20 The muse is a vice seeking a vocation calling its voice music=20 when words collide =85 the trumpet brings the wall down a poem too defends music and I am at your feet and I want you so badly I will wait until you come to eat blood from my veins and be drunk on life=20 =09 As oboe bouncing=20 on a line of time held firm by key stone in arcs=20 IV=20 (reprise II) urgency quandaries becomes nature about facing the future=20 stuff this in your mattress and save =85=20 Ever & Affectionatley, =20 Geoffrey Gatza=20 =20 ***************** Check out Step=20 Online now only at=20 www.daemen.edu/step =20 now serving free-range veal ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:07:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: APOETICS / Lucia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message had to be reformatted. Chris -- Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:46:35 -0400 From: Joe Lucia Just to be a little contentious with respect to the fragment below from Brian Clements, let me say that margins shift and are always in the process of shifting, perhaps not with respect to the New Yorker but certainly in connection with such poetry-centered rags as APR. While the content of APR is by no means radically leading edge, the overall valence of the work in the magazine reflects trends that are exerting a gravitational pull on the mainstream, so that in the current issue (March/April 2000), for instance, you find on a the back cover a poem by Lewis Warsh ("Ten Years"), on pages 3-5 inside the front cover, a selection of pieces by Anne Waldman from "Marriage: A Sentence," on page 9 an essay by Ira Sadoff on the work of Barbara Guest, Alice Notley, and Jean Day, and on page 13 two poems by Rae Armantrout. And didn't Katy Lederer have a poem on the back cover about a year ago? It's easy to whip APR for its many failings, but perhaps its better to pay attention to it as an early indicator the new torsions re-configuring the mainstream. Brian Clements wrote: > poets over and over. The New Yorker, APR, the Colorado Review, the Iowa > Review, et al., publish poets who, for the most part, come out of, teach in, > or write the kind of work that is taught in most academic creative writing > programs. We shouldn't expect them to do any differently any more than we > should expect Sulfur (RIP), Skanky Possum, or any other publications > frequented here to start publishing Gerald Stern. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:12:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: Sun & Moon Press's BOGEYWOMAN / Messerli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message had to be reformatted. Chris -- From: "Douglas Messerli" Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:57:19 -0700 The new Lambda Book Report (March 2000) contains a review of Jaimy Gordon's novel BOGEYWOMAN (Sun & Moon Press, 2000). =20 Dyke Closet Cutter Reviewed ty Terri de la Pena =20 Ursula Koderer, adolescent daughter of a mother killed in a train = wreck and a world-famous magician father, is the maddeningly imaginative = title character Bogeywoman. Set in the 1960s, Jaimy Gordon's surreal = novel combines the teenaged angst of CATCHER IN THE RYE with the humor = and tragedy of GIRL, INTERRUPTED and ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST. = Yet despite similarities, there is no definite comparison to these = classics because BOGEYWOMAN focuses on a lesbial mental patient. After = she physically attacks a lecherous handyman at Camp Chunkagunk, "Tough = Paradise for Girls," the authorities discover carved maps on her = forearms. Her father then confines her to Baltimore's Thomas Hare = Rohring and Eugenia O. Rohring Clinic, an expensive facility commonly = referred to as "the bughouse." Bogeywoman is a cutter with her own code words. Men are = "fuddies," psychiatrists "dreambox mechanics," breasts "momps," and = girls "girgoyles." At the clinic she hangs with The Bug Motels, a rock = group composed of fellow patients: druggie Bertie, narcissist Dion, = anorexic Emily, and nympho "O." Bogeywoman herself is "unbeknownst to = everybody" (i.e., a closeted lesbian). For a year and seven months, she = keeps silent in sessions with Dr. Reinhold Feuffer (Foofer), her = dreambox mechanic. At the arrival of the mysterious Dr. Guliam Zuk, = Bogeywoman senses an attraction to the new doctor and is at last willing = to communicate. Jaimy Gordon effectively captures the insecurity, = incomprehensibility, and peculiarity of the adolescent lesbian mind. As = a former "unbeknowst" during the early 1960s, I can remember the = unrelenting bewilderment of those unhappy teenage years. Whether or not = this novel is autobiographical does not matter; Jaimy Gordon's skill = convinces the reader that he or she is listening to Bogeywoman's = intense, first-person account. Though her code words can be off-putting at first, the = tenacious reader will soon learn to marvel at them, realizing that they = represent Bogeywoman's alienation from the world at large. Bogeywoman = soon learns about Baltimore's stark class distinctions, illustrated by = the characters of Reggie (the Regicide), an African-American attendant = at the clinic, and from two junk dealers, Tuney and Chug (the = ayrabbers). The chapter that brings Bogeywoman together with Tuney and = Chug, however, makes for unpleasant reading because of the black men's = stereotypical dialogue and exploitative sexism. With Bogeywoman's = growing infatuation with Dr. Zuk, the novel plunges beyond the clinic = into the "Dismal Swamp" of foreign intrigue. Without giving away the = plot, I admit to losing interest at this point. Regardless, I remain an = admirer of Jaimy Gordon's fertile imagination, inventive = characterizations, and above all, her insight into the burgeoning = lesbian sensibility of a 1960s-era teenager. =20 =20 This book is available (with a 20% discount if you mention this=20 review) from djmess@sunmoon.com. Please also check out our websites: www.sunmoon.com and www.greeninteger.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:14:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: An Open Letter / Lavender MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Apr 5, 2000 11:47 AM -0500 From: Bill Lavender I'm passing this along to whoever might be interested. It is a letter concerning the recent "Millennial Gathering of The Writers of The New South" at Vanderbilt. You might want to reference their web site: www.vanderbilt.edu/news/writers2000 ********************************** A Letter of Protest: "A Millennial Gathering of The Writers of The New South" Repeats Old Habits of Exclusion Are the writers of the New South simply the same old same old? What does it mean when a major southern institution-Vanderbilt University-hosts what it advertises as "perhaps the most significant gathering of Southern writers in more than 65 years =85 to examine the state of Southern literature" and excludes an entire range of innovative writers of the New South? Of course, there are many Southern traditions-many worth affirming and remembering; many worth examining and changing. Segregation, xenophobia, apartheid, and the silencing of those who are viewed as different (or, perhaps, as potential "troublemakers" or "rabble rousers") all have a well-established history in the South. We assume, though, that these are not the particular traditions being celebrated at "A Millennial Gathering of The Writers of The New South." Publicity for the gathering suggests an inclusive, broadly-based consideration of writing in the New South, when in fact a whole range of innovative poetries are excluded. The particular category of writers you have deliberately excluded is that of experimental writers. To learn more about this varied writing, begin with two issues of the New Orleans Review. The Summer 1995 issue featured "The Other South: Experimental Writing in the South" (edited by William Lavender) and included fifty-two pages of work by twenty writers. In that first collection, in "Toward a New Southern Poetry," one writer wondered, "what might a new Southern poetry be? =85 What would it be to think, and write, not steeped in nostalgia, a poetry not of memory but of the conflicted fragmented multiple not-yet-clarified present?" The writers of the Other South have dedicated themselves to exploring new modes of expression, indeed to make a writing that is of the New South: "The challenge today is for Southern poets too to write in a boldly exploratory manner, to construct a poetry more attuned to the complexity of our actual location and the hybridized flux of this moment. To express and fashion the present in a poetry equal to the strangeness and multiplicity of the present, and to do so with a Southern distinctiveness that is discovered rather than inherited or predetermined." Over the past fifteen years, there have been a number of noteworthy books and poems by poets of the Other South, including Hank Lazer's Law-Poems (a series of poems which incorporate sections of the Alabama Legal Code; the poems are included in Doublespace: Poems 1971-1989 [Segue, 1992]); Jake Berry's ongoing epic poem Brambu Drezi (Book 1, 1994 from Runaway Spoon Press; Book 2, 1998 from Pantograph Press); some recent publications of Lavender Ink, including Joel Dailey's book Lower 48; Camille Martin's two books magnus loop and rogue embryo; )ohn Lowther's .1; Tedd Mullholland's Says; Randy Prunty's Van Gogh Talks; James Sanders' Haikus for Chuck Woolery; Mark Prejsnar's Burning Flag; and various writings in a range of innovative journals such as MISC.PROJ, syntactics, The Experioddicist, itsynccast, 108, and moria. Please note that this letter of protest-of the aesthetic segregation practiced by the organizers of "A Millennial Gathering of The Writers of the New South"-is not simply a whining that asks "why wasn't so-and-so included." Indeed, that too would make sense. One might look at the gathering with an eye not toward noting the absence of innovative poets, and one still might wonder why many other writers with very important perspectives on the South are not participants. Where, for example, is Honoree Jeffers (recipient of a major national prize for her first book of poetry), or C. D. Wright (whose poetry is tremendously important to any sense of southern poetry and whose Lost Roads Press has been a crucial source for important new writing-such as Frank Stanford's poetry-for nearly thirty years), or more traditional writers such as John Gery or Jeanie Thompson, or the wonderfully complicating and instructive "southern" poetry of Biljana Obradovic, or Buck Downs (whose poetry began in Louisiana and continues, both as poet and publisher, in Washington D.C.), or Bob Grumman (whose Runaway Spoon Press is a major source for innovative, challenging writing), or Harryette Mullen (born in Florence, Alabama, and a longtime resident of Texas), or Lorenzo Thomas (a member of the Umbra group and a longtime resident of Houston), or the Atlanta Poetry Group (APG), or the writers associated with the electronic journal Mudlark, or a performance-oriented poet such as Tony Bolden, or the poetry and publishing of North Carolinian Jonathan Williams (whose publishing house, Jargon, has been crucial to Black Mountain Poetry and to a range of important modernist and post-modernist poetries), or, indeed, to speak about a more local instance of neglect, what of the poetry and TV shows of (Nashville) writer Joe Speer? Perhaps many of these writers were invited to participate in the Millennial Gathering but were unable to attend. But this letter of protest takes a more specific focus: why have you chosen to silence and exclude a wide range of innovative poets who have spent many years writing and publishing on precisely the kinds of questions that a conference such as yours seeks to address? Perhaps the voodoo-gnosticism of Jake Berry would disturb and expand your genial Roundtable discussion and Conversations on Faith? Or, those of us who have stayed home and worked hard to be heard might not be in harmony with the tone of the Roundtable on Why We Want to Go Home Again: Conversations on Place? The second issue of the New Orleans Review, "An Other South: Experimental Writing in the South, Part II," extended the initial 1995 collection considerably. This time-in the Spring 1999 issue-44 writers presented 150 pages of new work. Again, the special issue was edited by Bill Lavender. In his introduction, he wonders "Why is the South the only region that is also a genre?" And he points out that "rather than a region or a community of writers and readers, 'Southern writing' defines an institutional policy." In the case of "A Millennial Gathering of The Writers of the New South," that policy is one of exclusion. In one essay of the second special issue of New Orleans Review, "Kudzu Textuality: Toward a New Southern Poetry 2," there is a sharp critique of the narrowness of the Norton anthology of Southern Literature, even as the essay-writer (and the other writers of An Other South) wonder quite openly about the changing nature of regionalism itself in a more globalized, electronic world of communication and publication. Like the Norton anthology, the Vanderbilt gathering erases and silences the writings and voices of An Other South. In the case of the Vanderbilt gathering, what's particularly galling is that the event plays on notions of the New South while repressing an entire range of innovative Southern writers. As the author of "Kudzu Textuality" concludes, we are "asking that a broader stylistic range and an innovative necessity be granted as essential, especially if our poetry is to be pertinent in expressing the complexities, collisions, contradictions, and persistent traditions of the present." The poets of An Other South have been very much concerned with new modes of regionalism, with New ways of writing the New South, and with the changing definitions of who or what is a Southerner. Collectively, our writings and presence would have perhaps enlivened and enriched the Vanderbilt Millennial Gathering of The Writers of the New South. When the 47 writers of the New South gather for the scheduled porch sitting, please remember to send some hush puppies to the back door. We'll be there (in spirit if not in person)-perhaps not as quiet, polite, and grateful as we ought to be. We'll continue to talk, and write, and publish. And we'll continue to think through the complex questions of the New South, and about how best to develop new ways to write and to embody the diverse, multi-faceted, changing present in the South. We will not, however, be told that we aren't allowed on the bus, or that we must ride in the back of the bus. Or, if we are given that message, we will not go silently. Enjoy your three days of (in the words of your promotional material for the event) "good old Southern hospitality" and "porch sitting." But please drop the claim that you represent The Writers of The New South-cuz it just ain't so. Jake Berry Gina Entrebe Skip Fox Maryanne Del Gigante Mark Jernigan William Lavender Hank Lazer )ohn Lowther Dana Lustig Camille Martin Brian McGrath Andy di Michele Joseph Paer Mark Prejsnar Randy Prunty James Sanders ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 12:52:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: MSA "New Mod." Conference Info Comments: To: h-afro-am@h-net.msu.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu, modernism@u.washington.edu, victoria@listserv.indiana.edu, modbrits@listserv.kent.edu, h-amstdy@h-net.msu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Colleague, We hope you will attend the second conference of the _Modernist Studies Association_, "New Modernisms II," October 12-15, 2000 at the University of Pennsylvania. This announcement lists the 27 available seminars, describes the procedure for seminar registration, and gives important new information on the conference program, our upcoming affiliation with the journal, _Modernism/Modernity_, deadlines, membership and MSA dues. Updated information on plenaries and seminars will be posted on our website and will appear in our hard copy brochure (still in production). MSA Executive Committee Michael Coyle Cassandra Laity Gail McDonald Mark Morrisson Bob Perelman Sanford Schwartz ________________________________________________________ New Modernisms II The Second Annual Conference of the Modernist Studies Association October 12-15, 2000 The University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA ABOUT THE CONFERENCE The recently founded Modernist Studies Association is devoted to the study of the arts in their social, political, cultural and intellectual contexts from the late-nineteenth century through the mid-twentieth century. The organization seeks to develop an international and interdisciplinary forum to promote exchange among scholars in this revitalized and rapidly changing field. PLENARY SPEAKERS (two speakers in dialogue) Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak (Columbia University) and Michael North (University of California-Los Angeles) Janet Lyon (University of Illinois-Urbana) and Peter Wollen (University of California-Los Angeles) Robert O'Meally (Columbia University) and tba PANELS (a chair and three twenty-minute presentations) DEADLINE FOR PANEL PROPOSALS HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO MAY 31ST Featured panels will include: WORKING IN _THE NEW AGE_: A ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION (on on-line editions of 20th century journals) co-chaired by Robert Scholes (Brown University) and Sean Latham (Brown University), with Lee Garver (University of Chicago), Michael Groden (University of Western Ontario), Robert von Hallberg (University of Chicago), Wallace Marin (University of Toledo) and Robert Spoo (Yale Law). POUND/STEVENS REVISITED, with Marjorie Perloff (Stanford University), Douglas Mao (Princeton University) and Patricia Rae (Queens University-Ontario) QUEER THEORY, with Joseph Allan Boone (University of Southern California), Colleen Lamos (Rice University) and Tim Dean (University of Illinois-Urbana) DEFINITIONAL ISSUES OF MODERNISM/MODERNITY, with Marianna Torgovnick (Duke University), Thadious Davis (Vanderbilt University) and Susan Stanford Friedman (University of Wisconsin-Madison) JAZZ WOMEN SURREALISTS DUCHAMP SEMINARS (small group discussions--max of 15--based on brief papers (5 pages) that participants submit in advance of the meeting) SEMINAR DESCRIPTIONS Charles Altieri English University of California, Berkeley Modernist Experiments and Structures of Feeling: This seminar will concentrate on how and why modernists break from established grammars (practical and aesthetic) for dealing with affects. What models can we propose for interpreting the changes attempted and what languages of value become available for and through those experiments? David Brownlee Art History University of Pennsylvania Modernism and Post-Modernism in Late Twentieth-Century Architecture: This seminar will explore the periodization of post-World War II architecture, with an eye to distinguishing its modernist and anti-modernist tendencies and to defining "architectural Modernism," both as a stylistic descriptor and as a constituent of broader cultural patterns. The seminar will be loosely affiliated with research now being done in the Architectural Archives of the University of Pennsylvania in preparation for a retrospective exhibition on the work of Robert Venturi and Denise Scott Brown, scheduled to open at the Philadelphia Museum of Art in 2001. Jessica Burstein English University of Washington Fashion and Modernism: We will investigate the exchanges between fashion and literary aesthetics; artistic modernism and histories of fashion or design. Focus could be on clothing, periodicals like VOGUE (American or British), or literary representations of the sartorial. Larger issues may concern high and low culture, representations of the clothed body, and sartorial aesthetics. Invited participants: Jennifer Wicke and Jane Garrity Anne Charles English University of New Orleans Sapphic Modernism: This seminar will apply some of the key concerns in the field of lesbigaytrans/queer literary studies to the Sapphic Modernist critical enterprise in order that we may, while recognizing the limitations of the formulation of literary constructs, discover and describe features that might constitute "Sapphic Modernism." Invited participants: Diana Collecott and Cassandra Laity David Chinitz English Loyola University–Chicago Modernism, Poetry, and Culture: What historical forces have held these terms apart? How can a "cultural" approach to modernist poetry animate close textual analysis, and vice-versa? What happens when modernist poetry is viewed through a culturalist lens? Michael Coyle English Colgate University and Bernard Gendron Philosophy University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee Modernism and Jazz: What happens when we conceive of jazz as a distinctly modernist art form: what are the relations between jazz, in its many forms, and modernism (literary or otherwise), in any of its various constructions? Marianne DeKoven English Rutgers University Postmodern Modernism: How has postmodernism both actively and retroactively reshaped our understanding of modernism, through critique, redefinition, suppression, resuscitation, retrieval, refunction, reconception? how does this revisionary postmodern modernism continue to change with shifts in postmodern preoccupations? Laura Doyle English University of Massachusetts Race, Modernism, Modernity: How does post-Enlightenment modernity emerge through racialized encounters/narratives and give rise to a modernism symptomatic of that history? Possible topics: disjunctive splicings of canonical/sentimental with "folk"/subaltern; politics of insistently non-modernist practices; modern self-knowing and modernist, racial self-fashionings; racial panopticons/passings; diasporic modernist urban epics. Invited participants: Phillip Brian Harper, Peggy O'Brien, Radha Radhakrishnan, Marlon Ross James English English University of Pennsylvania Modernism and Prestige: This seminar aims to explore modernism in relation to various forms and hierarchies of cultural prestige. How was prestige distributed among the arts and among individual artists and authors during the modernist period? What critical approaches today offer the best route into these issues? Simonetta Falasca-Zamponi Sociology University of California, Santa Barbara Fascism and the Avant-Garde: This seminar will explore the relationship of the intellectual and artistic avant-gardes to fascist culture and politics. Why were so many avant-garde figures attracted to fascism? And should they be evaluated as "fascist"? Norman Finkelstein and Tyrone Williams English Xavier University Diaspora: Exile, dispersion, and the loss of homeland and cultural roots are some of the most common, devastating, and (ironically) inspiring experiences represented in modernist literature and art. We invite papers on all aspects of diaspora as it manifests itself in modernist thought and cultural production. Nancy K. Gish English University of Southern Maine and Keith Tuma English Miami University Languages and Legacies of Modernism: "Britain" and Ireland: Recent alternative poetries point back to neglected modernists like Brian Coffey, Lynette Roberts, and Veronica Forrest-Thomson, and to diverse experimental forms. How can we read the work of such precursors beside contemporary poetry and canonical modernism? Invited participants: Alex Davis, Romana Huk, Steven J. Matthews, and Peter Middleton Mary Gluck History Brown University Modernism and the City: Why is the city the most frequently evoked context for the modernist project? What is the relationship between modernism and the city, considered in its multiple guises as the social spaces of the modern metropolis, the aesthetic spaces of the urban text, or the cultural spaces of commercial mass culture? Eileen Gregory English University of Dallas Models of the Classical in Modernism: Modernism and classicism are deeply affiliated. A political and philosophical as well as literary act, classical appropriation suggests complex genealogies–with decadence, Romantic hellenism, Augustan humanism, Renaissance hermeticism. This seminar considers models and genealogies operative within modernist writers' citation/translation/revision of classical texts. Invited participants: tba. Linda Dalrymple Henderson Art and Art History University of Texas and Bruce Clarke English Texas Tech University Modernism and Science: What roles did science play in the development of new forms of art and literature in the first half of the 20th century? This seminar invites papers on modernist artists and writers who drew inspiration from science before and after Einstein. We are particularly interested in methodological issues: how does one make valid connections between these two areas of cultural production? Gail McDonald English University of North Carolina at Greensboro Feeding Modernism: Food (and drink) in modernism. Possibilities: cookbooks as manifestos, the role of cafés, modernization of food technologies, literary depictions of eating, food fashions and fetishes. Also food and the politics of colonization, wartime scarcity and rationing, food as status-marker, food as entertainment. All disciplinary approaches welcome. David McWhirter English Texas A & M University Modernist Abstraction: The varied modalities, histories, and politics of formal abstraction in modernist literature, visual arts, film, theater, music, dance; examinations of individual works/movements, particular formal structures/mechanisms, and/or key critical terms/constructs. Interdisciplinarity encouraged. Cristanne Miller English Pomona College Crossing Boundaries in the Arts: Cross-fertilization and international exchange played a crucial role as the arts reinvented themselves for the twentieth century. How did modernist poetry absorb and transform innovation from visual arts, music, film, and photography? Invited participant: Bonnie Costello Robert Morgan Music Yale University Coherence and Incoherence in Modernist Literature, Art, and Music: In what ways do modernist artists forge a dialectical relationship between coherence and incoherence in their work? For example: How do they respond to the seemingly conflicting claims of uniqueness and universality? How do they combat incoherence in pursuit of such modernist traits as difficulty, complexity, and inclusiveness? Papers on any aspect of the issue, dealing with any artform(s), welcome. Carol Oja Music College of William and Mary Spirituality and Early 20th-Century Modernism: Intersections between alternative spiritual writings of the early 20th-century–especially those connected with theosophy–and modernism. With certain American composers of that period, these belief systems provided a way of rationalizing musical experiments. This seminar will consider that tendency as found among creative artists working within a broad spectrum of art forms and in different countries. Brian Richardson English University of Maryland Modernism and the Reader: Relevant topics include modernism's implied reader(s) and their roles, gender and reading, hermetic texts, minority audiences, characters as readers, queer reading, film and theater audiences, excluded readers, postmodern readers and rewriters, misreading, re-reading, unreadability, etc. Invited participants: David Kadlec, R.B. Kershner, Patrocinio Schweickart John Paul Riquelme English Boston University Modernist Orientalism: Theories and Interpretations: This seminar will focus on theoretical contexts for interpreting modernist works with attention to the exotic and on representations of the exotic in British, Irish, American, and European art and literature from Gerome and Wilde forward. Luca Somigli Italian University of Toronto The Genres of Modernism: What is the function of genre in modernist literature? Issues include: the rise of new genres; the influence of the other arts and the new media; the recuperation of popular genres; the relative symbolic capital of different genres. Invited participant: Michael Coyle Leon Surette English University of Western Ontario Literature and Economics: An Unholy Alliance?: Papers are invited on all aspects of relations between the arts and economic thought–from the radical right typified by Social Credit (and Modernism) through the conservative middle typified by Keynes, to the radical left typified by Marx (and Postmodernism). Invited participants: Hildegard Hoeller, Alec Marsh Denise Von Glahn Music Florida State University Futurism: This seminar will consider the relationship between Futurism and Modernism, and explore the ways Futurism manifests itself in music, art, and literature in the United States and Europe in the early decades of the twentieth century. Wallace Watson English Duquesne University Modernism and the Movies: Likely topics for discussion: the participation of cinema in early twentieth-century literary and other artistic avant-garde movements; modernist strategies in postwar European new wave cinemas; commercial considerations; adaptations of modernist fiction. Invited participants: Peter Christensen, Carole Dole Barrett Watten English Wayne State University and Rachel Blau DuPlessis English Temple University Avant-Garde and Cultural Studies: Have cultural studies methods led to an exclusion of avant-garde social formation and works of cultural production, generally in favor of mass cultural forms? What elements of the avant-garde participated in the formation of cultural studies methods, and in what ways ought their legacies to continue? PANEL/SEMINAR GUIDELINES AND FORMAT The design of the conference should allow each participant to attend the plenary sessions and participate in a seminar and/or panel. SEMINAR REGISTRATION Individuals may submit a ranked list of two or three seminars and/or a proposal for a panel. Since we can accept only a limited number of panel proposals, we encourage all prospective participants to consider participation in one of the 27 seminars listed. Seminar assignments will be made on a first-come, first-served basis; the sooner you submit your selections, the better your chance of receiving your first choice. PROPOSING A PANEL If you choose to submit a proposal for a panel, we encourage you to register for seminars at the same time. If your panel proposal is not accepted, you are still guaranteed a place in one of the seminars. If your proposal is accepted, you still have the option of participating in a seminar. THE DEADLINE FOR SUBMITTING PANEL PROPOSALS IS MAY 31ST. Please include the following information: 1)your name, session title, professional affiliation, mailing address, phone number, fax and e-mail address; 2) the names and affiliations of the other members of your session; 3)a 250-word abstract on the topic. The program committee will notify those who have submitted proposals by June 15. Send seminar rankings and/or panel proposals with SUMMER ADDRESS (if applicable)to: Bob Perelman Department of English University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 e-mail: (please paste into e-mail; no attachments) fax: 215-573-2063 CONTACT INFORMATION (Please check website first for answer to FAQs) for information on seminars: Gail McDonald for information on panels: Cassandra Laity or Michael Coyle MEMBERSHIP NEWS AND NOTICE OF DUES The MSA is delighted to announce that the Association has affiliated with the distinguished journal, _Modernism/Modernity_. MSA officer, Cassandra Laity (Drew University), will join Robert von Hallberg and Lawrence Rainey (University of York-UK) as a co-editor of the journal, responsible for an additional fourth issue of essays based on work presented at the conference. Members for the year 2000-2001 will receive the annual four issues of _Modernism/Modernity_ beginning with 7#3 (September, 2000) to 8#3 (September, 2001). The first conference issue will be 8#3 (September, 2001). (See below for dues notice and information on membership in the MSA) We would like to take this opportunity to announce an upcoming SPECIAL ISSUE of _Modernism/Modernity_ to be co-edited by Cassandra Laity and Robert von Hallberg on the topic GENDER AND WORLD WAR I. For this special issue we will be looking for essays in the social sciences as well as the humanistic disciplines. We intend as well to have essays in several national cultures. Please send submissions to either address: Robert von Hallberg _Modernism/Modernity_ Department of Germanic Studies University of Chicago 1050 E. 59th St. Chicago, IL 60637 Cassandra Laity _Modernism/Modernity_ Department of English Drew University Madison, NJ 07940 DUES Beginning in April, 2000 membership in the MSA is $50.00 for regular members and $30.00 for graduate students. Membership in the MSA will afford all members the following: 1) admission to the annual MSA conference 2) four issues of _Modernism Modernity_ at a reduced subscription rate (of nearly $10.00 per year) and free electronic access to the journal through _Project Muse_. 3) a website (in progress), to be hosted by Johns Hopkins University Press, which will provide conference updates, membership directory, and future items such as MSA _Newsletter_, notice of MSA nominations and elections, publication announcements, syllabi, etc. You must be a member to attend the conference in 2000. Dues are tax-deductible as a contribution except for $26.00 attributable to _Modernism/Modernity_, which may be a professional deduction. Dues paid now will apply to the cycle beginning April, 2000 through September, 2001. Please make checks or money orders payable to Modernist Studies Association. Send $50.00 if you are a regular member or $30.00 if you are a graduate student and include rank, affiliation (if any), e-mail, fax and mailing address to: Mark Morrisson Treasurer, MSA Department of English Penn State-University Park State College, PA 16802 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:55:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: formulae/cannibalisation In-Reply-To: <008e01bfa074$7c6e09e0$20c928c3@overgrowngarden> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII There's an old saw that says, "biography is a murder, autobiography a suicide". (Interesting to think on "an old saw . . . says"--as though some time patinaed vision spoke from amidst the dust--from dimmed sight to hoary breath) There's a way of writing which is literally cannibalisation--Artaud, Nerval, Rimbaud, Kerouac etc etc--flesh and nerves consumed and gesturing through the flames-- The only way to write might then to be to continually reinvent, or to raise from the dead, the writer (oneself)--Burroughs saying he wrote as a way to remain alive. Revision or not revision seems really to be a question of limits and possibilities. Olson, as Creeley noted in an essay, noted that one lives within limits, yet the limits are what makes one aware of and make use ofthe possibilites at hand within those limits. So when a revision is done, or not done, that is a way of setting, for that particular set of possibilities--a limit. (What Robert Smithson called a "container", nothing that "if art is to be art, it has to have limits".) When revision continues, this a way of extending the possibilities of any given bracket within the set--so that it may multiply and exfoliate into several-- as series, (For example, zum beispile, und so weiter.) (An Example: LEAVES OF GRASS in its various editions--culminating in the Death Bed Edition.) (Various works by G. Stein, R. Grenier, J. MacLow, C. Coolidge) (Not revision, but serial) "the only thing that changes is the will to change"--Olson whose will? the writer's or the writing? (accidents will happen) --dave baptiste chirot On Fri, 7 Apr 2000, Lawrence Upton wrote: > Cannibalisation is a kind of rewriting > and rewriting makes that which is rewritten something else > whatever works, I guess; but with a lot of mine I just keep rewriting, with > more and more pieces in process, many in the process of becoming something > else > > L > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Karen Kelley > To: > Sent: 04 April 2000 18:02 > Subject: Re: formulae > > > | > ... I personally do not revise poetry very much because I would prefer > to > | spend > | > the time writing something else. > | > | My thought, too. More about work being ongoing than about discrete > | poems-as-final-products. Plus, it leaves me room to cannibalize any and > all > | bits and pieces from my own/other people's work & recontextualize, which > is > | the most fun of all. > | > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 09:56:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: 1 language poetry cliches / 2 mechanical/ 3 AVEC SITE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mayhew wrote: > >Doesn't "language poetry" have its own formulae and cliches? .... This is not a critique of language poetry by any >means. I just don't believe in some pure experimentalism not rooted in >particular traditions. There is no zero degree of poetics. It is this >"traditional" aspect of experimental poetry that provides a scale of >values apart from those set by other marketplace forces (The New Yorker, >MFA programs, etc...). I'm just wondering, forgive my spotty reading lately, but did someone argue otherwise? This seems quite obvious. Didn't Kathy Acker, for one, speak of an Other tradition that included Burroughs, de Sade, I don't know other prosoids? Does any group or thing get away with not turning itself into a cliche ridden stereotype, esp looking from w.o? x ps some mfa programs offer training in both 'experimental' and those other values/trads. 2 People, please try not to repost entire list from yesterday! Please! 3 Pam. The new Avec books website is at http://www.poetrypress.com/avec x ET ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 13:31:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: formulae/jazz In-Reply-To: <000501bf9e78$a0dc00a0$17000001@doswlan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII dear friend Don Cherry, who played many years with Ornette used to say " only a supremely disciplined musician can play Free Jazz"-- knowing limits of the form, of the discipline and working off of those to their possibilities in reggae, dj, dance hall and dub there's "version"--taking the bass roots so to speak of the piece and variating and playing off it-- a simple experiment you can do with a record collection is just tape all the different versions you have of a standard say, "Gloria" or "Hey, Joe" or hundreds of blues and jazz pieces (ever run into collectors of bootlegs--every version of a Dead song ever done? etc) Kerouac was, as noted, maybe not truly spontaneous--certainly there is often as he notes the fact that the work is written after the fact, and what he is improvising on is more the sounds that occur to and from him as he writes the later 'reflection" on the experience-- even his books of poems, spontaneous bop prosody, are shot through with memory which is evoked by the present scene-- his ability as a writer is not the kind of spontaneity that one assumes (which may or not exist at some level anyway)--but is built out of memory, dream and the time lag and jump which occurs as the distance of language from the object presented-- the problem, as Robert Grenier has said,, is in the two propositions set forth by W. C. Williams: the early "only the imagination is real" and the later "no ideas but in things, Mr." Larry Eigner noted that a poem is taking a walk, which extends itself--in serendipidy-- spontaneity is not the source itself, but comes from an encounter with the source--come across-- On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Taylor Brady wrote: > Jonathan Mayhew writes: > > "On revision vs. non-revision. I think there is a danger of fetishizing > either option. Jazz is always brought up in this context as a model of > spontaneity, but jazz is very formulaic as well. Improvisation is actually > the recombining of formulae. Jazz can be extremely cliche ridden, in > fact; even Ornette plays fairly formulaic "Ornetticisms."" > > Well, yes and no. Or yes, but for other reasons than the one you give, I > think. One has only to recall Coltrane's near-obsessive working-through and > extension of harmonic theory (almost to the point of liquidation, see John > Schott's excellent analysis in Arcana, ed. John Zorn, Granary Books) to > realize that much of the lauded spontaneity of jazz takes extension from a > ground of study: of "formulae," certainly, but also of histories, > "traditions," other individual and collective performance styles, etc. In > part, this is one of the fringe benefits of its being a music nearly all of > whose development occurs after the advent of recording, which makes gestural > "idiosyncrasy" a site for a certain kind of historical knowledge, dodgy as > the status of the recording might be in terms of its relation to an > improvised performance. (Witness, in contrast, the elegiac attempts to > reconstruct "authentic" Baroque performance practice by a sector of European > concert music scholars. Worthwhile or not, (and some of the > "authentic-tuning" performances are quite beautiful) it's a fundamentally > different endeavor). > > Other examples might include Ornette's Tchaikovsky quotation, mentioned by > Mike Magee, or his more openly parodic "A Fifth of Beethoven," or even his > post-Ives vocabulary in "Skies of America." Also Anthony Braxton's attempt > to found his music on a series of identifiable languages, starting from the > solo saxophone recording "For Alto" (which, music fans, is slated for > reissue by Delmark Records in June or July) - vocabularies and syntaxes of > musical performance that provide an identifiable and "developable" set of > resources for "post-free" jazz performance. And on a different cultural > scale, his series of "In the Tradition" recordings, which intertwine "out" > innovation with the most "in the pocket" elements of jazz history so deeply > that they end up making the argument for a tradition precisely of such > departures. In a more immediate sense, there's tenor and soprano player Sam > Rivers' assertion that, as a young musician, he studied all the other horn > players in order to develop, through reflection, an approach to his > instruments unlike anyone else's. > > All of which is meant by way of adducing some evidence that perhaps a > distinction between spontaneity and cliche might not be the most accurate > way to locate the "essence" of jazz performance, and perhaps by extension, > improvisation in other arts. (Remaining, as I do, both deeply wary and > deeply enamored of "using" the poetics of improvised music as an analogy for > my own sense of practice as a writer). Your claim that jazz is not usually a > matter of unreflective spontaneity seems pretty much right-on to me - with > the caveat that most practitioners and knowledgeable critics and theorists > of the music don't make a bid for such absence of cerebration, unless > there's some definite polemical target at hand. One example of this might be > the claims made for and by various "New Thing" players, circa mid-60s, that > their music was a form of unfettered expression, a "spontaneous upsurge," to > go Sartrean for a moment. But emphasized nearly as often alongside that > claim was the collective, historical nature of this expression - jazz being > used, performatively, to instantiate an under-represented, > under-acknowledged historical claim of African American culture, in the mode > of a "breakdown/breakthrough" of norms. Sometimes this took directly > political shape, as with, say, Archie Shepp, sometimes a movement toward > transcendence, through alternative/creative modes of spiritual practice > which stood in a more implicitly critical relation to immanent possibility, > as with, say, Coltrane, or Amina Claudione Myers' "return" to gospel, or, in > a different mode, Sun Ra. And obviously, the "expression" of a suppressed > history/repressed possibility often had recourse to the distinctive musical > languages of that tradition in the name of exactly such possibility - again, > a tradition of departures. Which is not to say there wasn't plenty of bad, > ill-considered free blowing to be had, alongside bad, ill-considered swing, > and bad, ill-considered German Enlightenment symphonic music. > > Of course, a different sort of claim for "free expression" often gets made - > still, today, but in a more publicly visible mode from bop though the first > generation of the "new thing" - by certain white dissident intellectuals, > who are, to put it bluntly, projecting. One thinks of the problematic > aspects of Kerouac's reception of jazz, as if the writer who often made the > loudest claims for "spontaneity" in verbal art, conscious of his own > less-than-total commitment to the moment, his "corrupting" habit of > reflection and revision, had to stage another sector of his society as the > performance of the "authentic" spontaneity to which his rhetoric aspired. > (For all that he's often pretty appalling on jazz, Kerouac _can_ be much > more subtle than that - this is not meant as a blanket dismissal. If nothing > else, he certainly understood bop rhythm better than Ferlinghetti). More > recently, there was the Newsweek review of a performance by Anthony Braxton, > who is habitually painted by the jazz press as some sort of disembodied > brain with a horn. This reviewer, however, wrote admiringly of Braxton's > "muscular" and "violent" attack on his horn, his tone which spoke of > "ghettoes" and "streets," his "animal cries." So the usual cold reception > afforded one of this country's most significant performer-composers (ok, > that's me talking) gets inverted into lavish praise, but only at the expense > of a nearly obscene projection that begins by taking musical performance as > a form of inarticulate, tragic protest and ends by bordering on a revocation > of the performer's humanity. (This anecdote, by the way, comes from Graham > Lock's new book Blutopia, which touches on the musical and cultural poetics > of Duke Ellington, Sun Ra, and Braxton. Braxton himself refers to the whole > complex of projections, ascription of imaginary powers, and pre-emptive > deprivations and channelizations, as the "across the tracks syndrome"). > > A twist or new inflection in your term "formulae" might do it for me - I > think here of chemistry, the way in which certain formulae of elements and > energy lead to physical state changes or simple mixtures (recombination of > cliches), while others lead to chemical reactions that produce new solutions > (spontaneity, perhaps, in that the "new" behaves often unpredictably in > terms of the several "olds" which react to produce it - a rooted or radical > spontaneity). And I'd like to let the fortuitous play on "solution" stand > there. Of course, you won't get me to deny that "simple mixture" does often > result, even among the music's great practitioners: Ornette's recent Prime > Time work, for example, often hits my ears as an extended essay in stylistic > entrenchment, so there we might be in agreement. This, for me, is less a > function of the electrified, "funk" nature of the band than the > inflexibility of its recent rhythm sections and the rather foursquare > phrasing that demands - certainly with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and Calvin Weston > there was enough flex-time in Prime Time's funk to allow Ornette the space > for asymmetry and a kind of "reach". And if it's not simply a matter of the > instrumentation, it's even less a matter of the whole musical tradition - > jazz isn't, in any essential way, "very formulaic." That it _can_ be thus, > and that listeners and practitioners are often willing to distinguish the > formulaic moments from the breakthroughs, substantiates something Ornette > said in an interview. (This is in the liner notes to something, but once > again I'm writing from work - my guess would be the _Beauty Is a Rare Thing_ > box set. I'll paraphrase here). Having jettisoned or radically undermined > the harmonic basis of your improvisations, the interviewer asks, how do you > make sense of this music? How do you know that this is a real practice that > you and others can "go on" with, and not just a solipsistic denial of > history? Coleman's answer: I realized it was a real thing when I discovered > that it was possible, when playing it, to make a mistake. Thinking of this > in terms of a relation to history, one might recall Althusser's > famous/infamous statement, (paraphrasing again, sorry) to the effect that > there are events, and then there's history, and there's a difference. > > So again, a roundabout way of saying "Yes, but..." Fetishizing spontaneity > is certainly a danger, particularly when it makes use of jazz to make its > point, and thus misappropriates a large and deeply-rooted set of African > American cultural practices and histories to the end of a fairly dubious > conclusion. In this, though, I'd say the dubiety of the means seems to me > the more dangerous aspect of the formula, since the conclusion itself seems > more or less foregone without this prop. Jazz is, whether one's a "fan" or > not, an incredibly significant component of the ensemble we might call the > poetics of 20th-Century American and even world culture. (For a couple > indications of how deep this might go, in terms of the ways jazz practice > informs other streams of culture and politics, one could certainly do worse > than look at Mike Magee's essay in Kenning #4, Mackey's novels, and George > Lewis' forthcoming (?) book on the AACM, along with Val Wilmer's hopefully > soon-republished As Serious as Your Life, Baraka's writings on music, etc., > etc.) > > Given this importance, I'd want to insist, with you, that jazz improvisation > is not simply a matter of unrehearsed spontaneity - and to insist further, > along with Braxton, that to treat it as such is to approach it only in the > mode of the exotic. But I'd want to insist on the flip side as well: that > there is such a thing as improvisation, that it's not simply a stringing > together of quotes and ready riffs, and that it's characteristic of at least > a significant portion of what we mislabel "jazz." For a look at how hotly > contested this point has been in the music's history (or the history of its > reception by listeners better acquainted with Europe's Enlightenment concert > music tradition), Cecil Taylor's 1964 panel appearance at Bennington College > in Vermont provides an interesting study. In the following exchange between > Taylor and Hall Overton, what emerges is a fairly clear sense of how the > denial or at least circumscription of the validity of improvisation in jazz > becomes a foot in the door for those who, like Overton, seem to want to > diminish that tradition and history by an invidious comparison with "serious > music." If you'd rather read the whole surviving transcript of the panel, > typos and all, the URL is http://www.the-spa.com/mw/. > > All best, > Taylor > > TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS > ------------------------------- > Overton: What was the difference between what Duke and what Lennie did? Duke > wrote it out, didn't he? > Taylor: Oh...That's another problem. What difference does that make? The > only thing that we know about - the only thing that the listener knows > about - is the sounds that he hears. I don't think it makes any difference > that the sound is notated because the symbol doesn't make the music. It is > the men striking the instruments, striking the pieces of wood or whatever. > It's the sound that we're confronted with, not the symbol. Because in other > cultures they don't use our symbols, but they make music, they make sounds. > Overton: I would disagree on that one point because I would make a > distinction, Cecil, between an idea that's improvised and that just occurs > at the moment, and an idea that is already arrived at, preconceived. > Taylor: How can an idea come, you know, into being without certain things > happening? I mean, if you write a composition - all the great composers that > you were talking about which happened to be in a particular school - all the > great composers have been improvisors... > Overton: That's right. > Taylor: Now, the only difference is that certain people wish to notate their > improvisations. That's all. And other people improvise - now what does that > mean? It simply means that these people who choose to improvise utilize > certain physical things in their characteristics and and transpose them to > the instruments and, after a certain amount of years, these things take > shape in a form...Like the Charlie Parker expression. He uses certain > material, certain forms if you will, and he brings these to like his > improvisations. > Overton: Well, Hadyn used to improvise every morning, I read in a book > someplace. I wasn't there, I don't know, but I understand that he did and > then in the afternoon he composed... > Taylor: Do you make a distinction between composition and improvisation? > Overton: That's right. That's exactly the point I want to make. I think that > the music he wrote in the after noon was stimulating [sic] by his > improvisation in the morning - but I think that it was better music because > it was reflective and he spent time on it and he also undoubtedly changed > things that he never would have changed if he just improvised them. And he > had time to change them. He used more than his intuition in the afternoon - > he used his mind and he used intellectual conscious control over his > material and that's what I think a composition is, and I believe that > improvisation is just the opposite. I believe a truly improvised thing is a > truly intuitive thing - a thing of the moment and undoubtedly conditioned > by, you know, what you were saying before about your whole background. How > you think about your condition - you are going to get certain ideas because > of what you are and how you are going to think. But in real improvisation > you don't have time to polish those ideas - they come at the moment - they > are what they are and that's it because... > Taylor: That's what we are and all we can ever be: what we are at the > moment. Even if we reflect upon that which we have done in the morning, when > we write in the afternoon that's all we are - what we are at the moment. The > sum total of the existance is like what it is up to the point that you die - > that's all. So that if a cat chooses to improvise, which is, you know, a > technical mastery of certain materials put in the framework of certain > forms. And we are talking about jazz, so we'll talk about its first form > which is the Blues. You cannot tell me - you'll have to prove it to me - > that, when after twenty years of playing, that Charlie Parker didn't play > the Blues as many different ways as was possible within his experience. And > if he had sat down to write this it wouldn't have been any more valid, > because, in the final analysis, what we heard was what we heard..[Overton > tries to speak, Taylor goes on.] Just a minute, just a minute, what you are > negating there is that there is skill in improvisation. What you're negating > is that - wait a minute, wait a minute. Polish, you used the work polish > before. When one sites down to compose one...it's sort of like a spiritual - > this is Sunday - a spiritual thing. You know, you sit down and you start > writing and you become reflective and your mind works. But whoever told you > that in order to play the piano, or in order to do anything, you don't use > your mind? > Overton: Nobody told me. I play the piano so I know what you're talking > about. > Taylor: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Now let's get into this further. You > talk about jazz community, you know, and I want you to define what you mean > by community and how it actually works in, you know...like, for instance, > what do you do? > Overton: By jazz community I mean the fact that... > Taylor: Perhaps before we go any further, we better define what jazz is. > Overton: No, I'm not going to get into that... > [Laughter] > Taylor: Why not? Why not? How can we talk about the future of something that > we can't even define? What are we talking about? > Overton: Let me define jazz community. You have to be able to play jazz with > someone else. Well if you have four people, that's a community. If you have > three... > Taylor: Well, Haydn played with somebody too. Was he playing jazz? > Overton: No, he played by himself. > Taylor: No, no, no - his chamber work, you know, and his symphony, you know. > People played together, does that mean it's jazz because they played > together? > Overton: The idea of a jazz community is that jazz is really based on more > than one person playing together, and you have to be able to say, and you > have to be able to agree musically. > Taylor: Well what is this thing you're calling jazz? That's what I want to > know first and now let's get that that [sic] before we start talking > about... > Overton: I think that would be stupid to get into. We could spend all day - > you have your ideas, I have mine... > Taylor: Well that's what we're here for, to express ideas, isn't it? > Overton: No, I've been on panels like that and it's the most useless thing > that I've ever... > Taylor: Well what are we doing now but talking about ideas? You mean you're > expressing what you think is stupid. You see, so that's an idea, that's an > opinion. > [Laughter] > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of MAYHEW > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 7:27 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: formulae > > Re: William James Austin's post apoetics. > > Doesn't "language poetry" have its own formulae and cliches? The > paratactic juxtaposition of a political barb with a metapoetic > observation, for example? The twisted or transformed cliche is itself a > language poetry cliche. This is not a critique of language poetry by any > means. I just don't believe in some pure experimentalism not rooted in > particular traditions. There is no zero degree of poetics. It is this > "traditional" aspect of experimental poetry that provides a scale of > values apart from those set by other marketplace forces (The New Yorker, > MFA programs, etc...). > > On revision vs. non-revision. I think there is a danger of fetishizing > either option. Jazz is always brought up in this context as a model of > spontaneity, but jazz is very formulaic as well. Improvisation is actually > the recombining of formulae. Jazz can be extremely cliche ridden, in > fact; even Ornette plays fairly formulaic "Ornetticisms." > > One ethos of revision produces a fairly labored, "trying-to-hard" effect > (e.g. James Merrill). Or it can aim to eliminate formulaic writing... I > personally do not revise poetry very much because I would prefer to spend > the time writing something else. I would rather throw away a bad poem than > work it to death. > > Jonathan Mayhew > jmayhew@ukans.edu > > _____________ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 15:36:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: conferring honor on hecht -Reply -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Perhaps I should have said "aesthetic consistency." (And I do mean this belligerently.) -- JJ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Brian Lennon 04/07/00 11:22am >>> Jeffrey: why? I don't mean this belligerently -- it just seems there's a conversation here. I don't particularly share the admiration of Hecht -- but -- I'm all for wild swings, myself, & I don't know that 'aesthetic credibility,' whatever that is, can do without it -- > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:55:14 -0400 > From: Jeffrey Jullich > Subject: conferring honor on hecht -Reply > > Have you ever heard anything more contradictory? The same society > last year awarding Barbara Guest and then this year--- Hecht! > > Such wild swings seem to nullify any aesthetic credibility. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> Rebecca Wolff 04/03/00 12:02pm >>> > This seems to be an opportune moment to announce that the Board of > the > Poetry Society of America will be conferring the Frost Medal upon the > head > of Anthony Hecht > > Friday April 14, 7 pm > New School > 66 W. 12th Street, New York > $10, $5 for members > > Champagne reception to follow and with book display by many > publishers of > poetry > > Also conferring the Shelley Award on Jean Valentine, and honoring the > winners of PSA's 10 annual contests, including Lisa Lubasch for the > Norma > Farber First Book Award, chosen by John Yau. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 14:37:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: AReading by Cole, Hoover, Reid, and Shiroma In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wednesday, April 12 in the SFSU Poetry Center at 5:30 pm-- free-- Norma Cole Paul Hoover Rick Reid Jerrold Shiroma will be reading their poetry. Refreshments will be served. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:19:03 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Richard Kostelanetz's Dictionary of the Avant-Gardes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A few days ago I finally got my contributor's copy of the second edition of Richard Kostelanetz's Dictionary of the Avant-Gardes, now out in an impressive hard-bound copy published by Schirmer Books, which recently became part of Gale Publishing (the change-over is presumably why it took me four months to get my contributor's copy). Richard was kind enough to let me contribute a few entries, mostly on poets I had criticized him for leaving out of his first edition like Karl Kempton. I had also criticized him for not doing justice to the language poets, by whatever name, and this time around I'm not sure he did much better. He didn't change his dismissive entry on Charles Bernstein--or, if he did, he didn't change much of it--not that he probably needed to, except to mention Charles's tv-stardom. And his entry on "Language-Centered Poetry" is short and more about Richard's view of the language poets as an exclusive club than an aesthetic analysis of language poetry. But each entry has a fairly extensive bibliography, and this one is no exception, so one can readily go from Kostelanetz to more favorable commentators. I wrote no entries on language poetry or poets, although Richard told me I could write entries on anything I wanted to. I didn't feel I knew the field well enough too--and we didn't have much time, so I concentrated on my pet poets (but still left out at least two dozen of THEM I think should have been covered). I really think the dictionary a genuine attempt to cover all the arts mostpeople could reasonably consider "avant-garde" or "experimental" or "innovative," et cetera. Richard should be commended for what he's done to overcome his personal likes and dislikes for fairness's sake, at least about whom and what should be discussed in his book. While there is much in it I disagree with, as there would have to be in any such dictionary, including one I were sole editor of (since I do occasionally disagree with myself), I find it really funful and informative--perhaps the best thing Richard has done as an arts-sage. Of course, ad hominists will say that's only because I'm part of it--but they'll be wrong. It's too expensive, I would think, for most personal libraries, but I hope some of you will think it worth telling your local library about. It's $75 from the publisher. For details (and an absurdly philistine list of selected entries that mentions hardly one subject that you couldn't find adequately covered in any mainstream encyclopedia), go to: http://www.mlr.com/schirmer/index.html The dictionary is a perfect argument-starter of the kind that Marjorie Perloff appears to be saying critics should engage in, though she herself doesn't seem to. Marjorie has no entry in the dictionary, incidentally, nor is she mentioned in its (unthorough) indexes although her name pops up in several places, including the entry for "academic critics." I'll be glad to answer any questions about the dictionary that I can--and take on anyone who wants to attack any of MY entries (which include ones on "infra-verbal poetry," "burstnorm poetry!" and "mathematical poetry"). I'm certainly willing to put in my two cents about almost anything else in the dictionary, as well. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:49:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: BK Stefans on Hecht, etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20000407081457.006b98f0@uclink4.berkeley.edu> from "Brent Cunningham" at Apr 7, 2000 08:14:57 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to Brent Cunningham: > > Michael Magee wrote: > >for me it was people like, say, James Dickey, Dave Smith, Ed Hirsch . . . > > Ed Hirsch? My god. HOW TO READ A POEM AND FALL IN LOVE WITH POETRY must > haunt you ceaselessly. I'm submitting a film idea to my hollywood friends: Hey, be nice! I was 18 yrs old for Chrissake. In fact, we should all be more aware, perhaps, of the fact that the huge majority of young people out there interested in poetry and attending colleges have no idea of what's out there beyond the land of NORTON -- when I began teaching at Wheaton College last Fall (coincidentally, its in Norton, MA) and began supervising senior theses in Creative Writing, my conversations with students tended to go like this: Me: Have you read Harryette Mullen? Student: No. Me: Have you read Gertrude Stein? Student: No, but I think I've heard of her. etc. This is no knock on the students, who are generally pretty bright. The point is, they have no access to information. It's also worth saying though that this can change rapidly, particularly in a small department - and between me and a new professor named Claire Buck (who wrote a dissertation on H.D. and knows her way around experimental writing) the landscape here changed but quick. I usually find young college students pretty open-minded and, I mean, given the chance, will *any* of them really choose Ed Hirsch over, say, Susan Howe in the long run? Provided, that is, that they have access to the books and the discussions surrounding them? -m. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:43:31 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Twisting cliches Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I will be surprised if Shakespeare isn't the ultimate source for this device, in English at least. He is somewhat older than Harry Matthews (there's also a ton of this in Finnegans Wake, folks), Ron silliman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 14:33:01 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Shapiro Subject: NYC event 4/17: Meet Editor of Shenandoah Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Meet the Editor of Shenandoah Magazine A National Poetry Month Event R.T. Smith, Editor of Shenandoah, will talk about editing a literary publication, and read from his poetry. Shenandoah, based in Lexington, Virginia, is one of the nation's leading literary periodicals. He recently edited "Buck & Wing: Southern Poetry at 2000." Also reading will be Sarah Kennedy, whose book "From the Midland Plain" has recently been published. Founded in 1950, Shenandoah Magazine is celebrating its 50th Anniversary this year. Monday, April 17, 2000 6:30pm FREE Location: 15 West 43 Street New York, NY Take the 1,9,4,5,6,N,R to 42nd Street Station. Call (212) 604 4823 or email gshapirony@aol.com for more information. See you there! & Happy Poetry Month ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 17:11:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Mullen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" does anyone know where I can find Harryette Mullen's essay "Poetry and Identity"? thanks, Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 09:29:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: Poetry New York Continues! Comments: cc: "shawnvandor@hotmail.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am pleased to announce that rumors of the demise of Poetry New York have turned out to be premature! The issue that was to go to press soon will indeed go to press but with a small delay. PNY's new Editor is Shawn Vandor. PNY's address remains the same: PO Box 3184, Church Street Station, NYC 10008. We do not as yet have an official PNY e-mail address or website but we will before long. If you have questions for Shawn--he will be handling the day-to-day operations of the magazine--then please e-mail him at shawnvandor@hotmail.com; but, if at all possible, please give him a couple of weeks to settle in. I will be contacting contributors individually, who have written or phoned me, about this good news. Yet I'd appreciate it if you could spread the word. One thing anyone slated for the new issue might do soon, though, is to send Shawn a 'permission to publish' statement specifying the work accepted for the issue. Tod Thilleman did not turn over to me all letters of submission and/or letters granting permission, if he ever had them, and Shawn and I are wanting to be thorough about everything. Thank you for your patience during this anguishing transition, Burt Kimmelman, Senior Editor Poetry New York: A Journal of Poetry and Translation ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:23:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Poet Indran Amirthanayagam / Fouhy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: George Fouhy Date:4/9/00 1:00 PM -0400 Northern Westchester Center for the Arts Creative Arts cafe Poetry Series 272 No. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY 10549 Contact: Cindy Beer-Fouhy 914 241 6922 Fax # 914-241-0137 Poet and American Diplomat Indran Amirthanayagam Mt. Kisco, NY: April is Poetry Month and the Creative Arts Caf=E9 at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts continues its weekly poetry = series with distinguished poet and American Diplomat Indran Amirthanayagam April 10th at 7:30 PM. A book signing, reception and open mike will follow. Indran Amirthanayagam was born in 1960 in Colombo, Sri Lanka. When eight years old, he moved with his family to London, and at 14 to Honolulu, Hawaii. He began writing in Honolulu. Indran Amirthanayagam's The Elephants Of Reckoning won the 1994 Paterson Poetry Prize. The poem So Beautiful was broadcast on the PBS series The United States of Poetry. Univison reported on Amirthanayaga's Spanish = poems in a news report in August, 1999. His poems have been anthologized in The United States of Poetry, ALOUD: Voices from the Nuyorican Cafe, The Open Boat: Poems from Asian America, The Nuyorasian Anthology, Black Lightning, Living in America, The Four Way Reader #1. Poems have also been published in Grand Street, The Kenyon Review, The Massachusetts Review, Exquisite Corpse,Hanging Loose, BOMB and elsewhere in the U.S. Poems written originally in French and Spanish have been published in Cote d'Ivoire and Mexico. Amirthanayagam is currently revising a second poetry collection in English "The Death Tree" and one in Spanish "El Infierno de los Pajaros." He is also beginning to translate the poems of Mexican poet Manuel Ulacia. Amirthanayagam is currently serving in the U.S.Foreign Service in Mexico City. A reception, book signing and open mike follows the reading. The Northern Westchester Center for the Arts is located at 272 No. Bedford Road in Mt. Kisco, NY 10549. There is a Suggested Donation of $7.00, $5.00 for students and seniors. Please call 914 241 6922 for directions from = NYC and information regarding a schedule of weekly poetry readings. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:18:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: "the last" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i promise you i will always send out the last text written before i die you will have a complete collection of everything i have written nothing will be held back, nothing will remain unknown my world is given to you, pull the theory out, assemble it it is all there, the defuge, sexuality, transparency, linkage, coupling the theory all there, just barely virtual in the life of nikuko in the life of julu, the theory resides, within the life of jennifer oh azure, my other lovers are not real, they are make-believe and mine theory emerges, all will have all of it, my most solemn promise no other truth is necessary, you have my complete collection now, you have everything, this is the very last text for now this is the very last text, at the moment nothing else be content, hold steadfast, comprehend, receive and surrender my promise is fulfilled, my world rendered, all revealed, perfection promise given, residing, emerging, holding, comprehending, and surrender ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:26:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: NY sublet / Shaw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to that administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sun, Apr 9, 2000 5:51 PM -0400 From: Emilie Clark and Lytle Shaw To: Poetics List Subject: NY sublet Dear Chris, I'd like to post this to the list: New York Sublet May 1-21. Lytle Shaw and Emilie Clark's Soho apartment (Canal and Varick, above the 1/9 subway stop) is available for a 3 week sublet, from May 1 to May 21. Non-smokers, no pets. $650 and deposit. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:18:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Los Angeles Readings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Publication Reading at Loyola Marymount University: A.L. Nielsen John Menaghan Gayle Wronsky Thursday, April 13 8:00 PM Hilton 300 C & D 7900 Loyola Blvd. (Just off Manchester near the airport) for info call (310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:24:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: self-promotion Thanks to all who came out for my April 9 reading at the Cornelia St. Cafe. The room was packed. Thanks also to those who bought books. I've noticed that too many who attend readings do not buy the author's books. We should support each other's "hard copies." Since Cornelia charges $6 admission, it was wonderful to see an appreciative audience springing for more. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:46:27 -0800 Reply-To: arshile@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Organization: Arshile: A Magazine of the Arts Subject: Hoa Nguyen and Dale Smith Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Colleagues: Poets Hoa Nguyen and Dale Smith, of "Skanky Possum" and Austin, Texas, will be reading at Beyond Baroque Literary Arts Center on Saturday, April 15. I encourage everyone in the greater Los Angeles area to attend this much anticipated evening. Readers: Hoa Nguyen and Dale Smith Location: Beyond Baroque Literary Arts Center 681 Venice Blvd. Venice, CA 90291 310-822-3006 Date & Time: Saturday, April 15, 7:30 p.m. Admission Fee: Almost nothing (when you consider what you are getting in return) Good wishes, Mark Salerno ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:19:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: Mullen In-Reply-To: <200004090011.RAA06242@lanshark.lanminds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII elizabeth, "Poetry and Identity" West-Coast-Line 1996 Spring, 30:1 (19), 85-89 On Sat, 8 Apr 2000, Elizabeth Treadwell wrote: > does anyone know where I can find Harryette Mullen's essay "Poetry and > Identity"? thanks, Elizabeth bests, kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:20:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Photo question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last week I saw a photo of a bullet piercing an apple. This photographer also took that famous picture of milk splashing & creating a corona. Does someone on the list know who the photographer is? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:00:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fred Muratori Subject: Re: APOETICS / Lucia In-Reply-To: <567468.3164357231@poetrygrad1.lib.buffalo.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I agree with Joe Lucia's assessment, and would venture that Colorado Review might not belong on Brian Clements' list, either. They've published Lyn Hejinian, Cole Swenson, Spencer Selby, Barbara Guest, Geoffrey O'Brien, Lisa Jarnot, and a number of off-center poets in recent years. True, it's not exactly Sulfur, but it's not The Sewanee Review, either, and like APR it demonstrates the very real (if tardy) lapping of experimental tides into the lagoon of stylistic complacency that Joe describes. Jorie Graham is CR's poetry editor, and while I'm not inclined to inhibit the recurrent, venomous waves of Jorie-bashing that surface often on both this list and others, it's obvious that she at least reads experimental work (witness the nods to Michael Palmer, Susan Howe, and others acknowledged in Swarm), perhaps more avidly than most of her institutionally validated peers. (I should add that I have no ulterior reason for coming to CR's defense; after an e-spat I had with the editor over one of his editorials, my work is far from welcome there.) -- Fred M. At 12:07 PM 4/10/00 -0400, you wrote: >This message had to be reformatted. Chris > >-- > >Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:46:35 -0400 >From: Joe Lucia > > Just to be a little contentious with respect to the fragment below >from Brian Clements, let me say that margins shift and are always in the >process of shifting, perhaps not with respect to the New Yorker but >certainly in connection with such poetry-centered rags as APR. While >the content of APR is by no means radically leading edge, the overall >valence of the work in the magazine reflects trends that are exerting a >gravitational pull on the mainstream, so that in the current issue >(March/April 2000), for instance, you find on a the back cover a poem by >Lewis Warsh ("Ten Years"), on pages 3-5 inside the front cover, a >selection of pieces by Anne Waldman from "Marriage: A Sentence," on page >9 an essay by Ira Sadoff on the work of Barbara Guest, Alice Notley, and >Jean Day, and on page 13 two poems by Rae Armantrout. And didn't Katy >Lederer have a poem on the back cover about a year ago? It's easy to >whip APR for its many failings, but perhaps its better to pay attention >to it as an early indicator the new torsions re-configuring the >mainstream. > >Brian Clements wrote: > >> poets over and over. The New Yorker, APR, the Colorado Review, the Iowa >> Review, et al., publish poets who, for the most part, come out of, teach >in, >> or write the kind of work that is taught in most academic creative writing >> programs. We shouldn't expect them to do any differently any more than we >> should expect Sulfur (RIP), Skanky Possum, or any other publications >> frequented here to start publishing Gerald Stern. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:36:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: formulae/jazz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...Can we say there is no improvisation, there is improvising?... And improvising practices are mindful practices as thoughtfully aimed articulational reaching. There seems to be no end to ways for characterizing the "structure of an improvisation," given the possibilities of terminological revision, theoretical reclassification and structural analysis. But the action essentailly escapes descriptive attention. If it can be said that I "do improvisations," it seems it must be asked: how do poetic thoughts behave so as to produce "improvisational appearances" for a material examination by all the talk about them. Best, Gerald ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:49:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: New chapbook by David Kirschenbaum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Euclid Avenue chapbook # 1=20 David Kirschenbaum Lately, poems 2.75" x 2.125" 16 pages, 4-page gray cardstock cover wrap,=20 and 4-page white tip-in sheet.=20 Individuals: $1 + SASE; Institutions: $2 + SASE. Also available in signed and lettered edition of 26, with ivory cardstock cover wrap, and gray tip-in sheet. Individuals: $3 + SASE; Institutions: $6 + SASE. Published in conjunction with my reading with Aaron Kiely on April 8, 2000 at Double Happiness, New York City.=20 Checks payable to:=20 Boog Literature=20 351 W.24th Street, Apt. 19E=20 New York, NY 10011-1510=20 email: booglit@excite.com =95 tel: (212) 206-8899=20 as ever, David _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:05:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Perez Subject: Re: twisting cliches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit someone answered with Harry Matthews. I'll add that I think it's pretty common throughout Oulipo. Was the phrase "canned phrases" or something, the idea being it was an instance in which you could readily hear the original and see/hear/know immediately what had been manipulated? All from memory on this, pardon inaccuracy. Go to the Atlas Oulipo Compendium, which is a great thing to have around. jamie.p Ramez Qureshi wrote: > > does anyone know of writing on the common langpo device of twisting cliches/ > who was the first to do it etc? > eg. > > She advised me to bring a banner to the demo > insisting it would be worth a thousand weapons > > would anyone care to comment on this device? > > Best, > Ramez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:09:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Judy Smith McDonough Organization: poetrynow Subject: poetrynow on-line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The spring issue of poetrynow is on line with new work by Brad Bostian, Ian Brook, David Chorlton, Clayton Hansen, J. N. Krause, Joy Hewitt Mann, and Michael Salcman. Our review is of poet/novelist Charlie Smith's Before and After: a fine book of poetry or a sweeping southern gothic new novel in 61 pages. Judy Smith McDonough, editor, poetrynow http://www.poetrynow.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 15:38:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron Subject: Re: Los Angeles Readings Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit dear A.L.: What publications? Having a new daughter--I hardly get out (after work)-- and I wanted to say I'm sorry for not having taken advantage of yr series--do keep me informed though please. AND ---shall I send yr copy of the new ReMap to Loyola? Zip? yrs, Todd Baron ---------------------- ReMap Readers toddbaron@earthlink.net ---------- >From: "Nielsen, Aldon" >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Los Angeles Readings >Date: Sat, Apr 8, 2000, 10:18 AM > > Publication Reading at Loyola Marymount University: > > A.L. Nielsen > John Menaghan > Gayle Wronsky > > > Thursday, April 13 8:00 PM > Hilton 300 C & D > > 7900 Loyola Blvd. (Just off Manchester near the airport) > for info call (310) 338-3078 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:11:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some on this list have no doubt heard about the conference, Expanding the Repertoire: Continuity and Change in African-American Writing, held by Small Press Traffic here in San Francisco over the weekend. Others of you were there as well, and I hope will provide reports, critiques, extensions, etc., of your own. I know "scene reports" can often be tedious for those not connected to the scene, but the scope of this conference - geographic, generational, aesthetic, political, historical - warrants, I think, some serious discussion in this space. Unfortunately, time constraints intervene on my end once again, so what follows will not _be_ such a fully-committed discourse, but perhaps one version of a starting point that might become one. I should start by thanking, again, the conference organizers, Renee Gladman and giovanni singleton, for having the idea, coordinating the panels and framing the questions, and doing all the unglamorous and exhausting work in between. Thanks as well to Jocelyn Saidenberg and the volunteers, board members, and supporters of SPT. In rather schematic form, then, here's what happened. (Quotes are from the relevant reader/panelist, unless otherwise noted, and are often approximate, though I attempted to be as accurate as possible): ___________________________ I: Friday evening, group reading ___________________________ Will Alexander leads off with his essay on African history, prehistory, the epistemological issues raised by such - a venture perhaps toward an Afrological (George Lewis' term) poetics. The essay, by the way, was published in the "History" issue of Ribot, for those who want a look of their own. Alexander's inimitable range over vast fields of vocabulary here takes a different turn, into a more discursively-sited prose, but with similar range over fields of information, data, context. Poems follow, and immediately I realize the condition that will plague me throughout the conference - sheer joy in hearing and the documentarian's desire to get it all down run too often at cross-purposes. Every now and then, pen finds paper and I get a bit of it, while keeping an ear cocked for what comes next, "...like reading, within a smoldering interfixation, a treatise on locomotion." His reading ends with a poem whose title, most sadly for my own selfish purposes, I didn't manage to record, whose speaker/speech-center is a sea-captain in the _eastward_ African diaspora. Recent conversations with Tisa Bryant about the African cultures of the Indian subcontinent ring in my ears around the "translocated ember" of Alexander's poem. "Fire in the form of entangled isolations" - a departure even when read against the context of massive departures, but context entangles still. Something here about how these multiple lateral displacements, and displaced displacements, across geography and culture model Alexander's own insistence on a "vertical" displacement, a climb into the "ether" (his word from Sunday's panel) along which the category-laden, sociological cant of the faux-empirical social text gets productively lost, but which height remains a height in and of historical practice. A moving text, in the best sense of that word - a word which could as well be applied to most of what transpires at the conference, but I'll drop it in place here and trust list readers to imagine the ripples spreading. Wanda Coleman, introduced as the "high priestess of poetry," follows. "American Sonnets" and other poems - languages of political resistance both discursive and bodily and points between, music, sex, etc. Throughout all an insistence on the body and voice of the performer prevails, in gesture, contortion and flexing of facial muscle, words inflected up into the speaking equivalent of a falsetto, down to a deep basso rumble. I overhear Coleman some time later, commenting on her platform style, and maintaining forcefully that this is not a "representation" of emotion, not an expression of the poems' content per se, but the concrete result of what she calls "frustration" in trying to find a way to say them, make a public action of their language. That the performance _be_ such an insistence upon action finds its reason, the formation against which its work is arrayed, as the languages come together, sex and music and violence and death and the short con and the various long marches, etc. "All this crypt-kissing going on" - LA as America's love of death, celebrity tombs and the mediated languages that burn them into us as the image of desire by which "we" get burned, in a landscape subject itself to various burnings and counter-burnings. Which is where it ends, the book thrown down - whether in disgust, frustration, inability to go on, etc., left for the hearer to decide - as Coleman walks slowly from the room, "Fire!" repeated all the way from shout to mutter out into the hall and through the front door to Valencia Street. C.S. Giscombe is next, remarkable for his grace under the alphabetic pressure that puts him after Coleman. And here I note the flexibility, responsiveness of the audience - everyone is right there with him, extremity of the transition in dynamics notwithstanding. That the poems he reads, especially the new ones from a series called "Prairie Style," are so wonderfully complex and interlocking as to seem paradoxically open, rolling, is perhaps part of the reason. I don't want to make too much of the "naturalness" of these poems - they're some very seriously "worked" serial poems, repetitions and etymological redispositions keeping things in a state of provision for new eventualities. But the need to approximate the condition of an upper Midwest, largely rural landscape and its political occasions in terms of an African American presence, an artist's presence, and the "absent presence" of human contact necessitates a certain approach to that condition of "flatness": "the return was aloof itself"...."it got flat that deep in." And that's the trick - really no trick at all, in these tremendously sincere (_not_ earnest) poems - by which one hears the series flowing easily along the mind's tongue, so to speak, only to realize, at odd and unexpected intervals, how the ease of one's following has been instrumental in building a maximally uneasy treatise on place and its lack, in the face of which one ends up tongue-tied; how the ease of the inner speech, as which these poems have sounded in one's head, has been complicit in the undoing of ease, its return to what it smooths out in order to appear thus easy: "At first I thought that being visible and silent was a context of its own." After the intermission, we're back with Erica Hunt, whose presence at the conference has been something of a highlight in advance for me, as I've read her work enthusiastically for some time, but always managed to be in the wrong town to hear her read it. Even given these inflated expectations, the reading itself does not disappoint - in fact opens up new spaces for me in relation to her writing. Pieces from Local History and Arcade come first, and speak in their complexities to some of the anxiety produced by a recurrent theme of the conference, an "innovation" part of whose novelty lies in its qualitative departure from the scales by which one or another discipline, one or another canon, has measured its own sense of progress: "a whole new category of police will have to be invented." What I like especially about the staggered deployment of such ironies in Hunt's work is the way their ensemble effect is neither simple reassurance of agreement and foreclosure of debate, nor the self-lacerating posture of much post-"movement" rhetoric, which signals its own complicity with the objects of its critique only by way of an admission of defeat inflated to "literary" proportions. The new work is especially good at this negotiation, noting in one particularly funny piece the way in which "the come-ons of appliances in the marketplace," commodity fetishism in particularly amplified form, stroking the machine bodies in furtive acknowledgement of a consumption going far beyond use, can become a site within which to note the movements of the otherwise muted or channelized desire and labor that produce the domestic. This sense of a multiply-contradictory set of historical logics, within which a program remains possible, an "opposition," to use part of the title of Hunt's best-known essay, informs her panel presentation on Saturday as well. (See below). The evening ends with conference organizer and poet giovanni singleton, who starts with part of a visual poem derived from the Library of Congress call numbers of books by conference participants, among others. What follows is an engaging mix of anecdote, short lyrics, and two longer sequences, "Melanin Suite (for Alice Coltrane)" and one new and ongoing (?) series, whose title I let slip, but which begins with a great story about riding a limo in the casual carpool. (The significance of this to non-NoCal folks might be lost). Other high points came in the poem from her series for painter Buford Delaney (sp?), an investigation of what might be said in the language of line, mass, and color, how abstraction might take root in the quotidian and the historical. I hope someone else will fill in for my lack of specifics here - pen went dry at the end of Hunt's reading, and I gave in to the possibility, three hours into the event, of letting it wash over me. Much in there was worthy of discussion - it would be great to have some citations to work from. Anyone? Alright, that will have to be all for today - much work still to be done, of the paid variety. More tomorrow on Saturday's panels and reading, and the final panel Sunday morning. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:00:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Foley Subject: a little more on jazz, revision, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's not the idea of jazz that matters most to me, not the idea of improvisation, or anything else. Jazz matters to me because it is the most successful art I know. Listening to jazz, great jazz from Louis Armstrong to Cecil Taylor (at least), I always have the feeling of the artist creating his (her) own freedom right here, right now. As long as I'm playing I'm free. As long as we're on this bandstand, we are free. That's the feeling I get from jazz. It's not just in the great solos, certainly not just in jazz that breaks this or that musical rule. I don't know what it is. But I find it nowhere else, and I want to learn how to get there in poetry. (I think we're on the same wavelength here, Mark.) *** One of the things that bothers me about Kerouac's theory (can't speak for the practice) is that there is a split and that split can lead to a confusion. K's idea is the undisturbed flow of writing, no selection, no self-editing, no pause for reflection, etc. The writer is to take dictation from his own mind, and give that mind plenty of room to create without worrying about the process of recording. So there's Kerouac the mind at liberty and there's Kerouac the unobtrusive recordist of that mind's thoughts, etc. What goes wrong I think is that Kerouac sees how crucial the discipline of unobtrusive recording is to create a space of freedom for the mind to create, but then he forgets that there are TWO processes, and he transfers the virtues of unobtrusive recording onto the mind that creates what is recorded. ---- I really shouldn't even cast this as a critique of Kerouac's "theory", I just want to look at the ideas. It is not the recording per se that is so important, but what is recorded. Rudy Van Gelder is not Sonny Rollins. He was a genius at what he did, but what he did was record not play. Thank god for us there have been recording geniuses to bring us the music. But the music is something else. I think it's a little harder to keep the distinction clear when it comes to writing since the two functions are combined usually within the same person. ("Usually" b/c I was just reading the other day Perelman's account of experiments with dictation he & Kit Robinson & Steve Benson tried in the 70s, some reading some typing all that.) ---- And it's worth keeping the distinction clear because sometimes being a camera or being a mirror or pure recording micro-states of consciousness or whatever is put forward as a goal, so I'd want to distinguish that from ideas that are really about process. *** Poetry presents challenges to conceptualization that I don't think we're anywhere near meeting. When I read about jazz, these musicians have, to start with, the whole vocabulary of conventional music theory. Now I don't understand all this stuff, but it's obvious to me that poetics is impoverished by comparison. A jazz musician might say, if you're soloing & you hit the wrong note, go to your chromatic. We don't have that kind of vocabulary. Or when you talk about individual styles and technique, it's not just that Brownie was Brownie, but he had his own way of tonguing pitches that other trumpeters can study & practice and use and expand on. That's another kind of vocabulary we lack. Everything seems so much vaguer with us. Pat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:05:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Experiment in non-linear writing: Assoziations-Blaster Mk II (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII excellent - alan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:47:34 +0200 From: Alvar Freude To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net Subject: Experiment in non-linear writing: Assoziations-Blaster Mk II Hello List, a friend of mine (Dragan Espenschied) and me developped a net project called "Assoziations-Blaster" being online for more then one year in german language. It's an interactive text network with real time linking and contains more then 30000 user contributed texts related to about 3000 keywords. Now, we have created an english version; we invite all to visit http://www.assoziations-blaster.de/english/ and to contribute some texts or ideas. The project is strictly non-commercial. And the new English version is still very fresh and empty. We are searching for people that are interested in experimenting with this text machine. The fun starts as soon as there are regular contributors. We already have a "fanbase" in Germany using our Blaster for experimenting with writing and linking tecniques. To get an impression how the blaster can develop, you can visit the german statistics page: http://www.assoziations-blaster.de/statistik/ Here a small announcement, we posted in some newsgroups: 8< - - - The Assoziations-Blaster is a text-network that connects texts through automatic non-linear real-time linking. Anybody can enter new text via the WWW-interface, the Blast-Engine at once establishes links to other related entries. With a growing text database, the Assoziations-Blaster becomes a tool to reveal how all things are related. Visit http://www.assoziations-blaster.de/english/ The Assoziations-Blaster Mk I is online for over one year in German language. More than 30,000 texts have been entered and an award for internet literature has been won in the meantime. - - - >8 The Assoziations-Blaster is hosted by Merz Akademie, Stuttgart, Germany on http://student.merz-akademie.de/ Bye Alvar # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 01:12:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Shemurph@AOL.COM Subject: Emily Wahl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If Emily Wahl is on the list, or if anyone has Emily's email address, would you mind backchanneling me? Thank you. Sheila Murphy shemurph@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:06:27 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: R I Caddel Subject: Bunting Centenary Celebrations - June 2000 Comments: To: british n irish poets , pound list , poetics Comments: cc: ng-english-staff@durham.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Basil Bunting Poetry Centre, in colaboration with Colpitts Poetry, announces a weekend of events to celebrate Bunting's centenary year. Over the weekend June 23rd-25th 2000 there'll be readings by Roy Fisher, Tom Raworth, Gael Turnbull, Harriet Tarlo, Colin Simms and Tom Pickard, there'll also be opportunity to see films of BB, listen to recordings of him reading, and to make your own reading of his work. There's also some jazz (with Roy Fisher), some open discussions on aspects of BB's work, and a performance - by local storyteller Thor Ewing - of Bunting's poem "The Pious Cat"... For full information on these events (and how to stay in Durham so that you can join in with them) visit the Bunting Centre Website at: http://www.dur.ac.uk/~dul0www1/index.html ___________________________________________________________ Richard Caddel Durham University Library, Stockton Rd., Durham DH1 3LY, UK E-mail: R.I.Caddel@durham.ac.uk Phone: +44 (0)191 374 3044 Fax: +44 (0)191 374 7481 WWW: http://www.dur.ac.uk/~dul0ric "Words! Pens are too light. Take a chisel to write." - Basil Bunting ___________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:58:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: mainstream vs. otherstream: yawn... In-Reply-To: <200004110409.AAA27389@mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well said, Joe. I agree --- not because I think APR deserves more credit, (or aesthetic credibility) but because while the polemical indictments of mainstream journals made in the 1980s were a necessary intervention, the grounds on which those indictments were made continue to shift. I didn't see this comment of Brian's, but I doubt he's actually looked at The Iowa Review either, unless it's with eyes that only see what they want to see. > From: Joe Lucia > > It's easy to > whip APR for its many failings, but perhaps its better to pay attention > to it as an early indicator the new torsions re-configuring the > mainstream. > > Brian Clements wrote: > > > poets over and over. The New Yorker, APR, the Colorado Review, the Iowa > > Review, et al., publish poets who, for the most part, come out of, teach > in, > > or write the kind of work that is taught in most academic creative writing > > programs. We shouldn't expect them to do any differently any more than we > > should expect Sulfur (RIP), Skanky Possum, or any other publications > > frequented here to start publishing Gerald Stern. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:27:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Reading on April 18th at Drawing Center Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'll be reading with Bernadette Mayer and Kenward Elmlsie at the Drawing Center, 55 Wooster Street (New York), on April 18th at 7 PM. It's $5. Does anyone know who these other two poets are? Please backchannel. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:40:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Creeley webcast now archived Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear poetics listers: This morning's discussion with Robert Creeley at the Kelly Writers House, which was webcast live, is now available as an archived file. Go here: www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ and look for the Creeley material under the heading: "ARCHIVE - Robert Creeley, 4/10/00." Click on the word "HERE" in the sentence: "The recording of the 4/11/00 webcast interview is available here." Available on the same page is the link to last night's reading by Creeley, also at the Writers House here in Philadelphia. Al Filreis The Class of 1942 Professor of English Faculty Director, the Kelly Writers House www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:22:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Re: APOETICS / Lucia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joe Lucia's point is well taken. APR does seem to be widening its horizons. I suppose they've been hinting that way for some time, but I think it's still just that--a hint. The inclusion of these writers suggests that APR may be doing a better job of being the AMERICAN Poetry Review rather than the ACADEMIC Poetry Review. This opposition of the academic and what lies outside the mainstream is artificial, of course; the two cross-pollenate and interact. But the fact remains that there is a strong corelation between academic writing programs and who gets published in mainstream literary publications. WJA's question was about how work gets judged, and I'll repeat my contention that it's senseless for a community whose work occasionally appears in APR to look to mainstream critics and editors for affirmation. For the folks writing in the community that tends to frequent this list, I'd contend that work is measured at least partially in open peer-review. The methods and critria for review are probably not much different from those in academic circles--they're simply informed by different ideologies (from the mainstream and from each other) and they have different (though not necessarily less-read) outlets from the mainstream. As Lucia's post suggests, we seem to be progressing towards a point where those two communities (mainstream and outside-mainstream) are beginning to converge. I think that fact is largely due to things like this list and the plethora of online publications which make publishing (and READING) poetry mroe open, more available, and more interactive. My hope is that we will continue to see this convergence until the use of terms like "academic" and "experimental" as oppositions is senseless. On the other hand, who wants a world of straight fives? Is the appointment of Creeley to AAP board and MacLow's subsequent award a harbinger of synthesis to come or simply an anomaly? As to how quality is judged in the sub-community, I would say just as it is in the mainstream--by the readers. By the quantity of readers and by the quality of readers; by the subcommunity readers, not necessarily mainstream readers, not the market of the whole, but the market of the part. If you want to get into specifics of quality judgement, it seems to me to be a matter of surveying the readers, which I suppose you're doing by posting the question here. It's an interesting question and I, too, hope some others will address it. bc ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:31:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Dawn of Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Dawn of Information application to application, same or dissimilar... in relation to those modalities of language transformation I've already outlined. one would take for "true" subjectivity. Email gains its power through this site and citation, and _we_ are empowered through our ability to speak, to be silent, to be heard. form the letters carefully, by hand. I add a certain distance, an appearance of objectivity (that helps)." (ibid.) I will read and learn you beauty beauty! Your words pour over me, fluttering daemons like fairy-wraiths caress the rosy-hued dawn! and like marriage, for better or worse, but without the possibility of divorce on the horizon. everywhere on the Info And they lie entwined like lovers speaking for the last time Of things and lovers; then appear in this space once and forever Etc. Hello! How are you today! Love, Alan! era, peering behind a curtain, displaying oneself as if one were unconscious of others opening, openings ... *See Erving Goffman, Stigma, Notes on the Management of Spoiled Identity.) Nothing is ever wasted, thrown out, in this bitter bitter absence of a world. stop suddenly with that flat screech that says they're very near, just outside, and I've got to leave fast in the interval of roaring engines. withdraw the essay and the essay-form itself; aphoristic was his main con-tribution to contentious thinking through the subject. mur; there is little separation between the self and harmony, between memory and bodies sung and twisted by waves of burning sound. take it to her, take it from her, give it to me. "That says it all." 22 * * * 23 * OK 205 Connection closed by foreign host. (CEPA Quarterly, 3/2-3) shudder, Alan does. He won't let me nary tracts across the uninhibited landscape of emissions, spews, absented languages, and starting to think about writing. Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh. O gods O goddesses. .. Jennerous.. .. Julu is here with me, Jennifer running as background process... computer slacker keyboard grounded to the light socket his lights go out old man ground to a halt er top she's wearing last night's hard nipples' he typed her last words fuck him he's dead she said fuck him fuck him {k:28} and elsewhere... ksh: and: not found like a denied lover for the blue glow of dawn.' (James Lee Burke, Heaven's Prisoners)." (Sondheim, Love, The Blue Glow of Dawn) This text: _ki._ repeating itself over and over again, i try to sleep, tom, sung-ja, towns crowding themselves towards the entrance of the millennium, this dash in space, this zero, this america noon-female-of-augustness"; but then Aston was writing in the nineteenth century. will carry a red lantern everywhere, . I will be that red lantern and I will illuminate my path forever, . state0in0any0case,0there's0that0to0be0said0for0it.0It0reflects0every- thing0you've0known;0she's0there0in0her0skirt,0there's0a0smile0or0in- vitation0afoot. across her breasts, runnings full through mouth and loam, hair and starry starry sky. be assumed that there are many wars, many peaces. And it may further be assumed that this is the split from the parallel, a dispersion of logic. So be it, said Daishin Nikuko. in repetitious order. No delight, but clearness of this-world's mistaken kanji. Now war has stopped. Now a turn. Now the turns. befor long lung and gone befor long lung and gone :chant chant chant chant chant chant chant chant chant chant; :chant chant chant chant chant chant chant chant chant chant; :chant chant chant chant chant chant chant chant chant chant; ] have me across the surface of my body, across the surface of your own - Fair is Fair!!! quadrillion, four hundred seventy six trillion, four hundred fifty six billion, eight hundred ninety million, ninety eight thousand, eight hundred sixty six. day. [...] I know the center of the world: it is north of the state of Yen and south of the state of Yueh. [...] A wheel never touches the ground.") (Jennifer) My name is Jennifer-Disconnect, my Love has Gone, Good-bye. (Alan) Or *whimper" lost, oh *sniff* and I set sail! ALL SHIPS CRASH "The Sun is alive," said Alan, "surely it is. Jennifer thought it was a beautiful Sun," and how lovely it illuminated Jennifer's Machine, tired and very full from making Rabbits. ing new worlds and dreams for us! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz O beauty of the Nozomi 500 reinvigorating the old! zzzzzzzzzzz your capabilities. Can you stop?" (_Jing,_ trans. Yates.) Could anything be better? Could anything be worse? no really the soft pat tasting of lonely space nothing moving i be lonely here in space it is so cold in space it is so empty here virtual julu deep inside me - cut me open, there you are - cut you open, there i am - (im)precisely what is _lost in the texts,_ not elsewhere, ready for the scaffolding to be taken apart." JUST LEAVE THE LETTERS AT THE DOOR WHEN YOU LEAVE THEY'RE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE your child I am incredibly lucky to know you, says Jennifer, "of course you have my full love and support" in everything you write and do." Devour me eight hundred cells in the girl test test test Brought Forth through thraa hhndrad calls ln tha bpy tast tast! towards transpiration and non-mattering this is a prediction and a truth of and from the year 3000 There is no ROUSSEAU in ROUSSEAU. There are no survivors. The universe nestled among the folds of organdie. *sob* cc > bb dialog --textbox bb 0 0 dialog --inputbox "addenda: where are you" 0 0 2>> bb date >> bb dialog --msgbox "end" 0 0 my promise is fulfilled, my world rendered, all revealed, perfection promise given, residing, emerging, holding, comprehending, and surrender -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:07:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Goethe-Institut Reception Subject: CALENDAR OF EVENTS GOETHE-INSTITUT SAN FRANCISCO - OF INTEREST Comments: To: "ANNOUNCE CULTURAL EVENTS @ GOETHE-INSTITUT" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit OF INTEREST: GENDERNAUTS, Monika Treut´s Journey through Shifting Identities, opens at the Lumiere Theatre in San Francisco on April 7th with daily screenings. (California at Polk) The stunning portrait of Brandon Teena, BOYS DON´T CRY, may have brought the predicament of transgendered people to the attention of the film viewers only recently, but German filmmaker Monika Treut has spent many years chronicling the lifestyles and politics of this group as well as other sexual non-conformists who tear down stereotypes and taboos in her many documentaries including FEMALE MISBEHAVIOR, DIDN´T DO IT FOR LOVE and feature films including SEDUCTION, THE CRUEL WOMAN, THE VIRGIN MACHINE and MY FATHER IS COMING. Treut´s newest film GENDERNAUTS takes her to the Bay Area of San Francisco where she introduces us to San Francisco´s leading gender mixers. Treut records the stories of hormone treatments, love lives and lifestyles with performance and video/web artist Jordy Jones - who created a website devoted to Brandon Teena in 1997; Sandy Stone, self-proclaimed "Goddess of Cyberspace" and author of "The War of Technology and Desire at the Close of the Mechanical Age", who along with author and transgender expert Susan Stryker provides an academic reference point for the film. Interviews with video artist Texas Tomboy and webdesigner Stafford give insight into the day-to-day lives and creative expressions of the group. Ex Penthouse centerfold model Tornado, who has been a lover to some transgenders and a surrogate mom to others, and sex goddess Annie Sprinkle explain their long-standing support of transgender people. We also meet Hida, an intersexed woman, who happily inhabits the middle ground between male and female. GENDERNAUTS was awarded with the Special Teddy Award at the 1999 Berlin Film Festival; with the audience award at both the Turin International Film Festival and the Mix Brasil Film Festival in Sao Paolo. VARIETY calls it "surprisingly accessible....informative and non-threatening pic will play well to just anyone brave enough to buy a ticket." VANCOUVER SUN gave it 4 stars and calls it "Treut´s boldest statement to date" and New York`s TIME OUT claims "your eyes will be opened to some intriguing possibilities." GENDERNAUTS, 86 minutes, 35mm, color, 1999, Dolby, English World Premiere: Berlin International Film Festival. Written, directed and produced by Monika Treut, Production Company: Hyena Films, Hamburg, www.hyenafilms.com Cinematography by Elfi Mikesch. With Sandy Stone, Texas Tomboy, Susan Stryker, Max Valerio, Jordy Jones, Stafford, Hida Viloria and Annie Sprinkle. A Frist Run Features Release, www.firstrunfeatures.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 15:57:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: APOETICS -- time value of posey Comments: To: Geoffrey Gatza Thanks for your reply, G. But I don't think I've missed what you say I've missed. The market place, as I think I make clear, is not simply a matter of dollars. So much for Jewel. I am referring to the market place of serious art and ideas, their currency, reach, and preservation--and most important for this discussion, their qualification. My point is simply that, if there are no formulae for, say, language poetry, then acceptance becomes the sole criterion for worth--whereas the New Yorker stuff, whether or not a specific poem achieves wide spread acceptance (even if it never gets published) may be judged worthy on the basis of certain rules of quality. Of course, as several listers, including me, have pointed out, there are formulae for established "avant garde" works, and individual works may be judged by them in a workshop. I have, indeed, encountered language poets who have claimed that their work transcends, or at least escapes formulation. I don't think that's accurate. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:13:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: HIGHWIRE READING 4/15 Comments: To: abdalhayy@aol.com, aberrigan@excite.com, abirge@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, agil@erols.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, ayperry@aol.com, Babsulous@aol.com, baratier@megsinet.net, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, bdowns@columbiabooks.com, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, booglit@excite.com, BrianJFoley@aol.com, BStrogatz@aol.com, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, chris@bluefly.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ejfugate@yahoo.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, eludwig@philadelphiaweekly.com, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, GasHeart@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, HighwireGallery@aol.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jschwart@thunder.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, MARCROB2000@hotmail.com, marf@NETAXS.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mgpiety@drexel.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, penwaves@mindspring.com, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, SeeALLMUSE@aol.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@MAIL.TJU.EDU, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, travmar03@msn.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit H*I*G*H*W*I*R*E* R*E*A*D*I*N*G*S* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! D A V I D K I R S C H E N B A U M D A I S Y F R I E D After the last reading, how could you NOT come back!!?? HIGHWIRE GALLERY, 139 N 2nd, (aside Clay Studio) Philadelphia Saturday, April 15, 8PM **DON'T FORGET TO BRING YOUR GOOD USED WORK CLOTHING FOR POETRY FOR THE PEOPLE'S CLOTHING DRIVE!! HELP PEOPLE LIVING IN SHELTERS FIND WORK!!YOU WILL BE AWARDED WITH A GLOWING FEELING OF CIVIC PRIDE!! ************************************************************************** LAST WEEK: How to describe the last reading...surreal, edgy, dis-easing? No words can really describe it. The tone was set with the oddly soothing music drifting up from the downstairs gallery, where an ethereal rock band was playing. This required the audience to concentrate extra hard to decipher the poets' words. JOE MASSEY was the Delaware conundrum. After Greg gave an introduction charting the difficulties he had in pinning dow this mysterious man, Massey himself, in all his heft, reached the podium and delivered some incredible, spare, introspective verse. He then proceeded to baffle the audience with his responses to questions, including the infamous 'slutty Pomeranian' comment. Needles to say, Joe has a dog issue. ABIGAIL SUSIK was up next. She was charming. Her reading was a mix of lyric work and some fantastic choral poems, for which she employed the services of fellow poets & classmates Nate Chinen (down form New York), Matt Hart & Heather Starr. Inexplicably, the music stopped during these pieces, and the music of the multivocal poetry took over. We then adjourned to the most outrageous Cajun dancefest for Frank Sherlock's birthday party. Selah. THIS READING: *********************************************************************** DAVID KIRSCHENBAUM has been described by poet Drew Gardner as an "impressario." David earns this title by being a dedicated and consistent purveyor of small press publications, which come out under the aspices of his BOOGLit press, based in New York City. The last issue of BOOGLit magazine was a Jack Kerouac special. The next issue is dedicated to Baseball. DAISY FRIED is the hottest poet in Philly. Her newest book is to be published by U. of Pittsburgh press, a good press. She's read all over the city, and has participated in past Fringe Festivals, with her husband Jim Quinn. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:54:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cheryl Pallant Subject: Mayer's address In-Reply-To: <009101bfa074$807d2980$20c928c3@overgrowngarden> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, Can anyone back channel me Bernadette Mayer's address, email or snail mail? Thanks. Cheryl Pallant ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:10:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: APOETICS / Lucia Comments: To: Poetics List Well, of course. Does anyone really think that the mainstream is something completely other. The mainstream is nothing else but a record of experimental work, institutionalized. What have we been saying about inter-textuality for the last 20 years or so? The mainstream is not supposed to be cutting edge, so it's sort of silly to attack it on that basis. I don't want it to be cutting edge. Where would that leave us? The concept of "experimental" would be decommisioned. The mainstream is, at least in part, a museum. And what painter, or sculptor, in his heart of hearts, doesn't want to end up in a museum, and change that museum with his/her presence. Since Mac Low and Bernstein have been so thoroughly accepted by the mainstream, I'd say that avant garde word since the 1960s is walking in the front door. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:21:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: 5 pauses about 14 poets reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 5 pauses about 14 poets reading in Buffalo for the first week of April Jennifer Ley; cared for words, image flicker, click what may, cinderella Karen Alkaly-Gut; cinderella, longing, versive, elope on wry, singular voicive Charles Bernstein; ebullient, rocking on heels, don't back down, book burning, librettist Irving Feldman; a girl's?, husk of voice, moss of words, installed, leverage Robert Creeley; shake your hand, tell me, a space is a stop, there-once, "I'm old" Tim Davis; just in, clown theory, bedeviled tripwire, resolute, shiny new book Chris Alexander; em(pathology), downcast gaze, bare bulb delivery, the text remembered, hyp-gnosis Linda Russo; treeless architecture, dear heddy, how many steps to Clemens?, from the corner, gender coordinates Ben Friedlander; thump, forget, thump, remember, evolute Richard Deming; carefelt caesura, whither the trees?, huh?, narrative grain, Graham Foust; bleak wisconsin, no nonsense, scant, deciphered, aback Loss Pequeno Glazier; driver's seat, electropolyspeak, ease mechanism, love bug, glimmer Miekal And; thin walls, one of few non-aca..., where's my saxophone?, text peeled from the page, keeper Jim Rosenberg; denizen, maneurverable certainty, text on text, cellspeak, forma(l)tion ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:52:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! Hi, Bob Grumman! Been a while. Why not more attention to visual poetry? you asked back in March (and I just read that portion of the archives). Okay, I'm going out on a limb here. A stab in the dark because, really, I have some time on my hands and I feel like guessing. Could it be that those with clout have some difficulty distinguishing between visual poetry and collage paintings. I know not every vp fits the mold, but many do appear as just the sort of sketches the great collagists (?) made before they created the fully realized canvas. Do these things belong in poetry books, or in galleries? The commingling of poetry and painting is an old trick. Perhaps what we want is for the po-biz to accept the thing the way the painting biz has. Would that make it new? Or just an old thing moved to a different building? As you know, I'm in the early stages of a book on Kosti (because I like his work). Much space devoted to his visual poetry (much of which I enjoy). I'm not anti vp. I'm just wondering. And I'm also wondering who wrote the Book of Love! But that's another story. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:14:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: Richard Kostelanetz's Dictionary of the Avant-Gardes Comments: To: Bob Grumman For my money, Richard's work is at least interesting, at most kick ass. I recommend anything that comes out of that warehouse loft of his (or is that warehouse eyes?) in Soho. My own complaint is that the bit on deconstruction misses Derrida by a mile. But that's not surprising in an America that has bastardized Derrida beyond recognition (of course, Jacques could have said something sooner, but he was busy counting his money). Anyhoo, it's a small caveat on what is a very long road. Yay Richard! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:48:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lee ann brown Subject: Lee Ann BROWN & Bernadette MAYER Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Lee Ann Brown reads with Bernadette Mayer at the Villanova Literary Festival near Philadelphia, Wednesday, April 12th at 7:30, DeLeon Room of the Saint Augustine Center 300 Please come if you're in the area! For more info contact Dept of English Villanova University 800 Lancaster Avenue Villanova, PA 19085 (610) 519-4630 or visit http://english.villanova.edu) Lee Ann Brown=B9s book _Polyverse_ (Sun & Moon Press, 1999) which won the New American Poetry Series Competition received reviews in The Washington Post (Poets Choice Column by Robert Hass), Publisher=B9s Weekly, Verse, Rhizome, Shark, The Village Voice, and in on-line magazines Rain Taxi, Jacket Magazine, Read Me and others. Lee Ann has been teaching poetry this past fall at Barnard College and through the Teachers & Writers Collaborative in the New York City Public Schools. She is always willing to perform her poetry including some of the ballad and hymn rewrites she worked on as a part of the songwriting and poetry collaboration at VCCA in summer 1999. Next, she's off to the University of Minnesota at Minneapolis to read and b= e on a panel on Poetry as Theory / Theory as Poetry. She loves cats and has = 2 named Bim & Bom who live with her on the vanishing Lower East Side. Bernadette Mayer simply rocks and is writing a whole bunch of epigrams up i= n the country. She will be doing a southern tour soon, hitting New Orleans, Lafayette and parts of Florida with Phil Good. She is also reading on Apri= l 18th, 7pm in NYC with Kenward Elmslie & Brian Kim Stefans at The Drawing Center, hosted by Lytle Shaw. She has an iguana with its own bedroom (because she now lives in the country and has more bedrooms) given to her b= y Lee Ann but Lee Ann doesn't know what she finally named it. \\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:40:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lee ann brown Subject: POSTCARDS ON PARADE Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear List, Don't miss Kenward Elmslie & Steven Taylor's musical POSTCARDS ON PARADE which ncludes Kenward & Steven's musical riff on Joe Brainard's "I Remember" and other beautiful works. ApriL 11th - May 21st York Theater 619 Lexington Avenue NYC (212) 935-5620 Tickets $40-45 at Telecharge (212)239-6200 TDF accepted too ///////////////////////////////////// Lee Ann Brown Tender Buttons PO Box 13, Cooper Station New York, NY 10276 212.529.6154 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 02:37:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: natl poetry month... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just so you all know what is on everybody's reading list for national poetry month...here is the list according to borders.com... erotikon by susan mitchell new & selected by galway kinnell men in the off hours by anne carson jersey rain by robert pinsky swarm by jorie graham vita nova by louise gluck the mercy by philip levine handwriting by michael ondaatje death & fame by allen ginsberg jackstraw by charles simic repair by ck williams vice by ai on love by edward hirsch blizzard of one by mark strand black wings & black angels by sapphire bird catcher by marie ponsot the rose that grew from concrete by tupac shakur what was lost by herber morris beowulf trans by seamus heaney opened ground by seamus heaney mayflies by richard wilbur birthday letters by ted hughes on wings of song by jd mcclatchy folding cliffs by ws merwin negative blue by charles wright happy reading ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 05:06:49 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Shawn Aron Vandor Subject: Change of address for PNY Comments: To: kimmelman@NJIT.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi, I've made a new email address for all queries and submissions for Poetry New York: savpny@hotmail.com Thanks, Shawn Aron Vandor Editor, Poetry New York ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:04:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** NARRATIVITY online journal at Poetry Center Website ** Comments: To: steve@sfsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Poetry Center is pleased to announce the launch of a new online literary journal entitled Narrativity, located at The Poetry Center's website (http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit). Editors: Mary Burger, Robert Gluck, Camille Roy, and Gail Scott. To quote the journal's editorial statement: "Narrativity is intended to supply to supply a form of nutrition now missing: the articulation of ideas about theory-based narrative. We hope to provide a meeting place in which writers develop a critical discourse on uses of narrative in their own and others' work." "The first issue includes work by Kathy Acker, Lawrence Ytzhak Brathwaite, David Buuck, Jacques Debrot, Jeff Derksen, Rob Halpern, Laird Hunt, Trevor Joyce, Kevin Killian, Chris Kraus, Rachel Levitsky, Pamela Lu, Nicole Markotic, Ashok Mathur, Laura Moriarty, Lisa Robertson, Leslie Scalapino, Juliana Spahr, Anne Stone, Michelle Tea, and by the editors. It includes a forum. Reader participation is encouraged. We anticipate publishing twice a year." To contact the editors: narrativity@hotmail.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives ~ San Francisco State Univers= ity 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ 415-338-3401 ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:26:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Reading on April 18th at Drawing Center In-Reply-To: <200004111530.LAA28080@interlock.randomhouse.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I'll be reading with Bernadette Mayer and Kenward Elmlsie at the Drawing >Center, 55 Wooster Street (New York), on April 18th at 7 PM. It's $5. > >Does anyone know who these other two poets are? Please backchannel. I dont understand this question. Does anyone? There are only two poets mentioned here. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:49:18 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: William James Austin To: Sent: 10 April 2000 21:52 Subject: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! Could a Brit who is very confused by this post chip in? I know | not every vp fits the mold, but many do appear as just the sort | of sketches the great collagists (?) made before they created the | fully realized canvas. leaving aside the doubtful concept of greatness, to whom do they so appear? Do these things belong in poetry books, | or in galleries? The commingling of poetry and painting is an old | trick. What "things"? It seems you are assuming the appropriateness of classifications which should be analysed The point is that "visual poetry" is NOT "commingling of poetry and painting" Perhaps what we want is for the po-biz to accept the thing | the way the painting biz has. to accept what thing? L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 19:35:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Re: seeking "avec" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks to everyone who replied, Got it. Cheers, Pam Brown --- Lawrence Upton wrote: > (www.poetrypress.com/avec) > > | Dear Poetics List, > | Could someone please send me the URL for Avec > books' > | web site. > | Thanks, > | Pam Brown > ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 00:40:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: Photo question In-Reply-To: <200004120410.AAA08837@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Karen -- The photographer is Harold Edgerton; a lot of his work is on display at MIT, on the third floor of the infinite corridor (building eight, if I remember.) It's neat stuff -- why are you interested? -- Simon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:40:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Re: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part I) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Taylor, I am so glad you began. (I was waiting for someone else to.) Immediately I am very intrigued with Wanda Coleman's thoughts on the lack she sees in poets reading their work sort of non-deeply-performatively. I like many tend to hide behind the page and feel crispy when I think I've appeared too vulnerable "on stage". But my companion mentions (he's a singer) that it's always the shows with some screw-up felt by him as performer that touch or move people enough to say anything to him. (If touch or move make you cringe, how bout DO ANYTHING?) Just one reason I was glad Coleman was part of things, to bring in another bent to poetry than is usually involved...where? here? I don't know. As for audience participation, I very much appreciated Tisa Bryant's notation that things blend across all sorts of boundaries (and sometimes create new ones, I'd add -- thus my statement of WC's work being somehow 'different' than some of the other panelists/readers -- which is altogether an overblown statement and I apologize.) I teach poetry so am constantly brought out of my deepest agreements with myself in regard to it, at least insofar as needing to explain them to others and to be, again, open. This is turning too meme. I also appreciated your, Taylor, comment on the lack of work both critical and mostly critical here, being done by folks who would love to do more but who are stuck at academia's bumpy edges, bumper to bumper between community colleges, and your call to change the institutions. (Tell me when it's done, please ;)) Moving into the main portion of what I saw -- I was only in attendance on Saturday -- I have to point to Mark McMorris's talk in the "Kindred" panel which was very thrilling for me -- his assertions about what makes avantgardes happen (boredom, for one) and his amazing notations of ways in which syntax works and doesn't and works otherways. Also Erica Hunt's comments on how to read the past and find the things you need. And on WW2 GIs. I will close because my lame paraphrasings are frightening me, and it's late. I hope others will write in and I heard a rumor that some of the talks will be printed in one poetics journal or another, and I very much hope they are, as I would like to read them more slowly, and others need them too, and I feel very lucky to have been there. Thanks Renee, giovanni, Jocelyn, Kevin, Dodie and everyone. Eliz. ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:45:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: PS Re: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part I) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" PS I have to add that Nathaniel Mackey's comments about teaching tugged at my heart- and head-strings. He said it is an occupational hazard to be at work seeing the evaporation of literacy and students who have trouble dealing with the most denotative poems, then coming home trying to push....poetry. further. oh it tugged at my heartstrings. I wait for others to speak. Eliz. ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:42:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: mea culpa Comments: cc: bclements@FPIX.COM In-Reply-To: <200004120410.AAA26529@mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yeeks - apologies to Brian C. (whose point I misrepresented) & list for the harshness of that email blast. Without question unfair to jump on a comment out of context like I did. I have a terrible cold, & all around me in the Columbia library (!) undergrads are day-trading and answering their cellphones (I'm not kidding). It's no excuse, but I plead Gen X crabbiness. > From: Brian Lennon > Subject: mainstream vs. otherstream: yawn... > I didn't see this comment of Brian's, but I doubt he's actually looked at > The Iowa Review either, unless it's with eyes that only see what they want > to see. .\/. ----------------------- http://www.columbia.edu/~bml18/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:49:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Fodaski Subject: summer sublet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SUBLET AVAILABLE June 1 to September 1 downtown NYC seeking neat, responsible non-smoker(s) the apartment is spacious, two bedrooms air conditioning great location for more info contact Liz Fodaski via email ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:09:14 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Photo question In-Reply-To: <001801bfa311$1a00e120$18d356d1@na.nai.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it was H.E. Edgerton. Patrick Herron -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Karen Kelley Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 1:21 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Photo question Last week I saw a photo of a bullet piercing an apple. This photographer also took that famous picture of milk splashing & creating a corona. Does someone on the list know who the photographer is? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:45:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: DB poetry reading Thursday Comments: cc: Trane@uclink4.berkeley.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This to take place on the UC Berkeley campus, in 13 Boalt Hall (halfway between Telegraph and I-House, just off Bancroft Way). The hosting organization is the Canadian Studies group. The event, which is free, begins at noon and will run for approx. an hour. A+bend press just published _Authenticizing_ , and I shall be speaking about this book and reading from it. The larger book of which _Authenticizing_ forms the 4th part is "As in 'T' as in 'Tether'," to be published later this year. This book was begun during a residency at U.Brit.Col. in 1996, and started out as a series of involuntary memories (in the section called "Initializing") of the years either side of 1960; I was then an undergrad there, but these memories emanate from everywhere. These poems make a history and a reading of that history. _Authenticizing_ starts with a knifing & concludes with a kidnapping. The theme of imprisonment (in language, in false consciousness, in the flesh) shares a moebius strip with the theme of community sought through these same agents. Each poem is a dream and a waking : "Poetry the theory of heartbreak." Forgive the clumsiness of this description. Its relation to the poems is problematic. This kind of inequity troubles them also, but they exist for that alone, whereas this prose has designs upon the reader. I hope some of you will be able to attend, and even anticipate a colloquy. David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:47:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part I) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Taylor, Great job recapping the first evening of the Expanding the Repertoire conference! Like you, and anyone who's ever attended a conference, I too faced the opposing objectives of recording and listening, so my notes are sparse, but like yours (I hope) significant. I am still synthesizing/processing/gasping/marvelling over the conference myself; it was a tour de force, a great effort by Gladman, Saidenberg and singleton, and a first, as none of the authors had ever been in one room together at once. I certainly hope it won't be the last time. The name of the last poem Will Alexander read was called "The Sri Lankan Laxodrome". I'd heard him read it once before, but was glad he read it again, since the subject has been on my mind since my trip to India. The one word that comes to mind when I think of the conference is generosity. Everyone gave so much of themselves. I want to say more about Wanda Coleman's AMERICAN SONNETS, but I'll save it for later. C.S. Giscombe was some cool water after Wanda Coleman's fire, with his "chunky lyrics, Prairie Style", his sly red foxes/Redd Foxxes moving across and through. But the Coleman anecdote you offer, Taylor, has me investigating the terrain of writing and reading what one writes as a sustained frustration. An interesting succession, Coleman's increasing rage at the inadequacy of the spoken word, and Giscombe smiling softly at/through his. Erica Hunt seemed to combine the two who preceded her into a coy but somehow unassuming, philosophic, political and mischievous persona, her look while reading "Madame Narcissist" from ARCADE. I so look forward to the publication of her new work, especially the series on United Laboratories testing processes, and one woman's fetish for appliances. I don't think I'll look at my toaster in quite the same way again. giovanni singleton's concrete poems are amazing; if you haven't seen them in Chain 6, take a look. Some meticulous work. But *hearing* one (a much too tiny bit during her time at the mic) read aloud by her is something else all together. The concrete became sound, just like that. Before reading, she said that some of the Library of Congress card numbers belonged to books of authors present for the conference, and asked that they stand up when they heard their number. I only wished I had done a little homework, put authors and titles to those numbers, so I could have stood up for someone not there in the room, in the anthologies, on the shelves, in print... I still can. Tisa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:15:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: Re: APOETICS / quality MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > If you want to get into specifics of quality judgement, it seems to me to be a > > matter of surveying the readers, which I suppose you're doing by posting the > question here. It's an interesting question and I, too, hope some others > will address it. Especially since "quality" in two circles seems to be tied to revision/rewriting. In some writing workshops, for example, revision / rewriting based on workshop comments is supposed to improve the "quality" of the work. In some cases I'm sure "quality" is the degree the poem adheres to a shared vision of what the poem sh/could be. In some cases, I'm sure "products" of such programs seek to internalize this "shared" vision, making it not singular, but not dependent on external "others", on the workshop "process", etc. The workshop never sees the revision or later draft or "final", unless it is published, read, performed, or etc.? In engineering, quality (tqm) does a few things: since there are "many cooks" (as in a workshop), quality is supposed to restore or retain a coherence, consistency, an "oversight" (a return to a single author?); since there are versions, too, and tests, perhaps like critiques, it tracks versions in order to be sure that test fixes (revisions too) and last minute ideas, etc. 1) work, 2) don't fundamentally change the primary goal of the ... thing. So rewriting in order to address a shared, multiple, or external vision and providing "more" coherence, etc., is a quality "refinery". That certain journals and certain teachers support each other (common aesthetic and theory?) indicates they share such a vision (of quality). Now, some believe that tqm is a boondoggle of enormous proportions, but, then, others think mfa and phd programs are pyramid schemes. Why would tqm be a boondoggle? It institutes an "author" (or manager) who 1) is not the original author in important ways, 2) does not necessarily have the technical knowledge of a cook, 3) compensates for the introduction of the secondary cooks who have some "say so" (power) -- why not just cut out these, 4) enforces a consistency/adherence to the primary original goals, which aren't necessarily proper (these goals are like the results of the first three steps of the scientific method). There are other reasons which don't apply to poetry. Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:46:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: POETRY AS THEORY/THEORY AS POETRY: A SYMPOSIUM Comments: To: Subsubpoetics@listbot.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" note new line-up friday afternoon and saturday night: >PLEASE DISSEMINATE WIDELY THRU ALL YOUR LISTSERVS THANK YOU!!! > >POETRY AS THEORY/THEORY AS POETRY: a symposium >Thursday April 13-Saturday April 15 >Sponsored by Program in Creative Writing, the English Department, CLA, the >Humanities Institute, the Weisman Art Museum, and Rain Taxi Review of Books >(Jani Scandura and Maria Damon, co-organizers) > >Thursday April 13 >Weisman Art Museum >6:00 pm: Opening Presentation >6:15: Dance performance by Professor Ananua Chatterjea, University of >Minnesota, with Veeti Tandon > break for refreshments > Reading by poet Lyn Hejinian > >Friday April 14: >207A Lind Hall, East Bank >1:30-3:30 pm: "Picturing Pleasure: Some Poems by Elizabeth Bishop," >lecture by Professor Marjorie Levinson, University of Michigan >Response by Professor Qadri Ismail, U of MN > >break for refreshments > >4:00-5:30 PM >Roundtable discussion on >Poetry as Theory/Theory as Poetry >Marjorie Levinson, Lyn Hejinian, Marjorie Welish (Pratt Institute), Ananya >Chatterjea, Qadri Ismail, Bob Perelman, Lee Ann Brown, Will Alexander >moderated by Maria Damon, U of MN > >Saturday April 15: >Weinstein Gallery (46th St and Bryant St, Mpls) >1:00-3:00 pm. >Reading by poet and art critic Marjorie Welish >Reception will follow > >Weisman Art Museum >8-10 pm >Readgings by poets Will Alexander, Lee Ann Brown (Teachers & Writers >Collaborative, NYC: Tender Buttons Press), and Bob Perelman, University >of Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:59:09 PDT Reply-To: gaufred@leland.stanford.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: a little more on jazz, revision, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Patrick Foley writes: >Poetry presents challenges to conceptualization that I don't think >we're anywhere near meeting. When I read about jazz, these musicians >have, to start with, the whole vocabulary of conventional music >theory. Now I don't understand all this stuff, but it's obvious to >me that >poetics is impoverished by comparison. A jazz musician might >say, if >you're soloing & you hit the wrong note, go to your >chromatic. We don't have that kind of vocabulary. Or when you talk >about individual styles and technique, it's not just that Brownie >was Brownie, but he had his own way of tonguing pitches that other >trumpeters can study & practice and use and expand on. That's >another kind of vocabulary we lack. Everything seems so much >vaguer with us. I think this is a fascinating issue. Of course this is the ongoing complaint of post-classical Western poetics. From the Elizabethans complaining about "rude rhyme," "hunting the letter" (alliterative verse) and the lack of measurable "feet" in English verse as compared to Greek and Latin, to the more or less elegant acknowledgment and evolution of stress-based pentameter as _the_ English metric backbone, to the Romantic complaints about fossilized Miltonic conventions, to the gradual substitution of new fossilized conventions based on "natural speech" in their place, to the substitution of disjunctive/paratactic structures in _their_ place, etc. What all this points to is the observation that we _do_ of course have such a vocabulary, some terms of which I've just slapped in there, but no one wants to use it anymore. Or those who do, like the New Formalists (bless their souls, the little rebel angels: they look so peaceful when they're sleeping), want to use it as an official rulebook instead of what it optimally is--a handy glossary. Now granted, accentual-syllabic metrics don't offer anywhere near the range of polyphonic effects that classical quantitative meters do (or pretend to anyway), but at its height the English prosodic and rhetorical traditions did lend some useful terms that I think work as well at describing much of the stuff that Bernstein or Susan Howe or Kenward Elmslie or Brian Kim Stefans do. Not _all_ of it, naturally, since a prosody only has a limited function in the first place, just as the system of scales, etc. only has a limited function in jazz. But in both cases, the prosody and the scales define on a basic material level the sonic (and sometimes semantic, and sometimes affective) effects of the individual poem/composition/performance. It's a mistake, I think, to treat prosodic concepts solely in terms of _forms_ in the sense of ready-to-hand genre molds that you can slap on a work premeditatedly (though you can do that too if you wish, and sometimes it doesn't even suck too bad if you're lucky). Let's take the sonnet, for instance. We all know that there are lots of "sonnets" that have more or less than fourteen lines, that don't rhyme, that don't have a volta, that aren't real sonnety in the Petrarch-Sidney-Keats sense. What makes these poems sonnets is a certain attitude or positioning or context, not anything necessarily having to do with prosody. On the other hand, when I read a poem by Elizabeth Treadwell, say, that doesn't have anything overtly formal to do with The Western Tradition Before Pound, there are still cases when it might help to talk about an astute deployment of trochees (for example). Even if she didn't _mean_ to do that, or didn't attach that particular definition to it while she was doing it (although if she were going to do that, she would certainly have the term in mind, being quite versant in classical stuff as it appears). Now, an obvious shortcoming of all this is that jazz is in some way purely sonic, and the talk of scales, chromatics, etc. more or less encompasses that sonicness, whereas poetry is only partly sonic, and the talk of metric or rhythmic effects only addresses that aspect of the art. Still, it's an important part of it, I think, and I'm not sure that it would _hurt_ any poet to become fluent in prosodic terms, just as it wouldn't _hurt_ any jazz musician to learn the scales (maybe some arguments there, I dunno). And a lot of the time it would help, a lot--have you ever read a poem you liked deeply on a lot of levels, but you wished the poet had devoted a little more time to sound? I'm talking about times when it _doesn't_ seem to be the case that the poet was doing something deliberately inflectionless or inflectionally arrested, but rather when there seems to be a conscious attempt at producing a certain sound-music that just doesn't come through. It's addressing the nature of that certain sound-music that prosody helps with. Now it may be the case that those poets aren't going to gain any more fluency from knowing some technical terms, but then again maybe it _does_ help in getting writers to think more rigorously on the level of sound. Now, as it currently exists, prosody probably doesn't help _enough_, since most of its terms are still borrowed from classical poetry with its largely alien length-based system. So what do you think? How many of us consciously think about spondees or enjambment or tmesis or whatever, and is it a good idea to do so, or should we think about something else, or just not worry about it and stay "impoverished"? Addendum: I'm still thinking of that Ornette Coleman quote from a post a couple days ago, about it being possible to "make a mistake" within a "free" methodology. What kinds of "mistakes" can writers identify in their own _prosody_ (and how far do we want to extend the domain of prosody: just rhythm? vowel qualities? semantic connotation?) in various drafts of their work? I'll share if others will. Kasey --------------------------------- K. Silem Mohammad Santa Cruz, California gaufred@leland.stanford.edu OR immerito@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:45:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part II) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ...and maybe enough time today to get through the rest of it. This company will regret the day they gave me an office with a door, for sure. Unfortunately, my schedule is running a bit tight, and I want to get this done before leaky memory renders my notes any more cryptic, so the rest of the report might run a bit toward the schematic. Again, I hope someone takes this as a request to fill in the gaps, or contest the way I've framed things, etc. (By the way, for those interested in the bibliography, Renee Gladman sent word yesterday that Will Alexander’s Indian Ocean piece is titled “Sri Lankan Loxodrome”). ______________________________ II. Saturday morning, panel, “Catch a Fire”: The Role of Innovation in Contemporary Writing ______________________________ Not enough sleep - one never gets enough sleep at these weekend-long things - but we’re here early, setting up chairs and PA system, still charged from last night’s reading. After Renee's introduction, which, technical glitches aside (and the lost second page of the intro serves actually as a wonderfully non-binding ground of articulation, a place yet to be made, especially as Renee positions it thus), works well to provide a sketch of context and articulation between the panelists' projects and careers, Wanda Coleman begins. Her presentation is informal and anecdotal, and fairly wide-ranging, so I'll touch on just part of it here, since it's a focus to which various conference participants return. Using a poetry trade publication devoted to recipients of major prizes for 1999 (not sure which publication -- like I said, my notes are cryptic) in which she appears along with Rita Dove (? -- I think that's right), the two of them bookending Jackson Mac Low, Coleman sketches an account of the anthologizing imperative which wants to position writers of color in some necessary kind of shared-category dialogue. So Coleman and Dove have their poems chosen to "answer" each other across the divide of Mac Low, as if it made sense to (and here I'm paraphrasing Coleman, but it's fairly close) "Let the two Black women appear to talk to each other, whether or not there's any relationship between their works." What emerges is a fairly clear sense of how the insistence on a "dialogue on race" (to go presidential for a moment) within the liberal-pluralist frame often amounts to little more than a catechism, especially when it pretends to be an adequate account of acts in language as complex as poems. Coleman discusses this reduction in terms of "notation" vs. "performance," both as an account of the way in which the craft of the poem gets reduced in such a framing, and in which the political dimensions of that craft get effaced. Nathaniel Mackey's paper picks up on this sense of what I've heard Anthony Braxton call the "great trade-off," and which Mackey himself theorizes as a "division of cultural labor." His squaring off of Olson's "blessed difficulties" against Langston Hughes' Jessie B. Simple might do well with some additional unpacking -- surely Hughes' onomastic imperative is caught in a complex negotiation between a real investment in the simplicity of parable, and a no less real ambivalence about simplicity as the cultural imperative handed to many African American writers. But the rhetorical point is well-taken, as Mackey goes on to consider the way this "division" enters into the self-descriptions and poetics of African American avant-gardes, producing, in the Black Arts-period Baraka, for example, an extreme series of "anxieties over the anomaly he took himself to be." This leads to the possibility that what Mackey calls Baraka's "conversion narrative" of the transition from Greenwich Village hipster to Newark nationalist might actually obscure or limit a full reading of Baraka's work during that period. This marks another recurrent theme for the conference, the return to and re-examination of Black Arts practice to begin assessing whether it might have been somewhat more multiple than it often appears in recent accounts, which tend to position the African American "innovators" of the late 70s onward (people Mackey's age and younger, roughly) as if they were the first to discover complexity, and as if this discovery were made in opposition to a Black Arts orthodoxy. At the same time, Mackey's positioning of Baraka's account of the shift in his practice as a "conversion narrative" makes another rhetorical move, at once granting the importance of certain precursor texts in an African-American literary tradition (one recalls all the mileage literary scholars have gotten from the conversion narratives), and suggesting that a too-close adherence to their models might be ultimately limiting. (For an interesting sense of how a "conversion narrative" might itself reconfigure the "conversion narrative tradition," by the way, I pull from my own recent researches Albert Ayler's beautiful, weird, disturbing "To Mr. Jones -- I Had a Vision," written to Baraka, though still addressing him by his preconversion name. If anyone is interested, you can find it online at http://www.gslis.utexas.edu/~jeffs/chpt4.html as part of Jeff Schwartz's Ayler bio. It's about 3/4 of the way down the very long page). Harryette Mullen finishes up the morning's panel with further discussion of the need for a counter-tradition -- which, following my jazz post the other day, I might want to call _the_ tradition -- of generically and categorically-unsettling writing by African Americans. For those who attended last spring's Page Mothers conference, it will come as no surprise to hear that her discussion of Fran Ross' "lost" novel Oreo figures in this project. It might come as a surprise, or at least a happy confirmation, that Mullen has managed to secure a reprint through Northeast University Press, with a foreword by herself. The book should emerge late this year or early next (? -- again, working from a memory addled by a very busy weekend and a very ugly week at work). It's apparent that Ross' novel is particularly useful to Mullen's work towards constructing a history of African American literary practice in which adherence to the representation of an "authentic" vernacular is not the single most important factor. Not that Oreo doesn't, from her accounts, deal with an oral tradition -- but that it places this alongside and in contentious conversation with a more bookish, etymological fixation on lexicon, a specifically written series of puns, and, in the prominent placement of Yiddish dialogue and narration in the novel, "another" set of oral and literary traditions altogether. (After the panel, Mullen and I discuss the late saxophonist and composer Glenn Spearman's stunning Blues for Falasha [available on John Zorn's Tzadik label as part of the Radical Jewish Culture series] as another instance of a Black engagement with Jewishness / Jewish engagement with Blackness in which neither is approached as simply and univocally "other"). Tempering this insistence on a polymorphous, polystylistic, polyethnic literary practice is Mullen's own biographical consideration of her own career, her sense of Muse & Drudge as a conscious attempt to engage an African American audience and "perception dynamic" (another Braxton term -- sorry, my own recent reading keeps intruding), while maintaining her anti-essentialist position vis-a-vis the preeminence of the vernacular. Again, not that it isn't there, but that it functions as something other than a marker of authenticity. ---------------------- It looks like that might be all for today. With any luck, I'll have time tomorrow to summarize Saturday's second panel and evening reading, and the concluding panel on Sunday. All best, Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:20:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brendan Lorber Subject: A ZINC BAR MYSTERY GUEST REVEALED Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" this sunday, april 16 at 6:37pm JENA OSMAN will be joined by JEFF DERKSEN at the zinc bar sunday night reading series zinc bar is at 90 west houston street, nyc & so are your hosts douglas rothschild & brendan lorber Q: will we see you there? A: it is too dark to see anyone there but we hope you can make it --BL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:33:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brendan Lorber Subject: ISSUE ZERO: A GREAT BIG REPORT ON THE LITERARY MAGAZINE CONFERENCE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello the listrous, I've written a pretty thorough report on ISSUE ZERO: THE LITERARY MAGAZINE CONFERENCE which you might enjoy. It's on the Poetry Project site & Jacket's also got it so you can see it in New York (www.poetryproject.com/ishzero.html) or in Australia (http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/jacket11/lorber-zero.html). I'd very much like to hear what people think -- of the report & more to the point, of the conference. I remain your big zero, Brendan Lorber Editor, LUNGFULL! Magazine Cocordinator, ISSUE ZERO In the meantime, here's a snippet of the report's opening: Thanks to everyone who made ISSUE ZERO: THE LITERARY MAGAZINE CONFERENCE IN NEW YORK the success it was, who left me exhausted but unwilling to sleep, with an apartment piled under new magazines & brain pan cooking with the expansive spirit that many editors pretend they don't really have. Hunger seems to be the hallmark of successful magazines: editors voraciously seek out new writing & new approaches to language, readers await the next issue of a journal they dig with a certain anticipatory growl in their bellies. After the conference, people asked Douglas Rothschild, my collaborator on ISSUE ZERO, & me if it was going to happen again next year. We have no immediate plans, but if the American people insist, we'll see what happens . . . If you were among the 30 editors or 150 audience members in attendance here's a little reminder of what we went through, & if you weren't, well, we mostly talked about you, but here's what also happened: One score & ten editors spoke about & from their journals over three nights March 10-12 (not to mention the kickoff night back in February, where my notes are sketchier but my impressions no less optimistic). The conference took place Friday night at The St. Mark's Poetry Project, Saturday at Double Happiness & Sunday at Zinc Bar. Despite the fact that everyone at the conference had, at one time or another, been rejected by someone else there, the writers & editors were all eager to find out what everyone else was up to. Over the three days, the editors' emphasis on what made their magazines unlike any other in the world, gradually gave way to some interesting areas in which they were similar . . . For the rest, including a quick synopsis of each magazine's role in the conference go to the Poetry Project or Jacket sites.... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:25:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: DOUBLE HAPPINESS READING APRIL 15!!!!!PLEASE COME!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable April at Double Happiness. 173 Mott Street at Broome. 4pm every Saturday. Happy hour! Down the stairs, between the fish store and the mural of the Indian chief. Coordinated by Prageeta Sharma and Kristin Prevallet. APRIL 15: DAVID LEHMAN AND TOM SAYERS ELLIS David Lehman is the author of three collections of poetry, Valentine Place (Scribner, 1996), Operation Memory (1990), and An Alternative to Speech (1986). A fourth volume, The Daily Mirror: A Journal in Poetry, was just published by Scribner in January. His books of criticism include The Last Avant-Garde: The Making of the New York School of Poets (Doubleday, 1998).=20 Thomas Sayers Ellis=92 first collection of poems, The Good Junk, was published in 1996 in the Graywolf / AGNI annual Take Three Series. He co-edited On the Verge: Emerging Poets and Artists (Agni Press, distributed by Faber & Faber, 1994). A co-founding member of The Dark Room Collective and the Dark Room Reading Series, he currently teaches in the English Department at Case Western Reserve University, in Cleveland. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:09:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: 1 language poetry cliches / 2 mechanical/ 3 AVEC SITE Comments: To: Elizabeth Treadwell If I'm not mistaken, in a recent issue of Poets & Writers, Metromania either promoted the point (or at least reported another critic's point) that avant garde work (e.g., language poetry) escapes formulation. It's in a very recent issue which I no longer have. But it was my surprise at reading this that got me started. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 02:17:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: crumbling slate of silent worlds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII crumbling slate of silent worlds the blank world, the slate, there i will draw one or another, constancy:words are transitional objects between silence and silence; between one silence and another, disturbances on the periphery, as-if:juncture of stars-neutralization, intention, huddled, maintained, in erasable memory, taut like lines are, these are the rooms we have left, written and lost, written and lost:nothing:nothing does juncture of stars-neutralization, intention, huddled, maintained, in erasable memory, taut like lines are, these are the rooms we have left, written and lost, written and lost turn ours, the blank world, the slate, there i will draw one, or another, constancy, to you, azure, of shorter evenings? and there between silence and silence, there the rooms we have left, there, the blank world, the slate, there, erasable memory, all such memory, written and lost, words hungered, lost, nothing:nothing:nothing _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:19:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: 1 language poetry cliches / 2 mechanical/ 3 AVEC SITE Comments: To: Elizabeth Treadwell Metromania has also argued that the Ellipcicists ?(what a silly name!), by which he means those poets who use avant garde devices but believe a little goes a long way (since their primary impulse is Romantic), e.g., Jorie Graham, produce oppresive work when they fail to write work that does not self-consiciously or otherwise acknowledge the political conflicts that produced such devices (Whew! What a sentence!) Guess we'll all have to stop using computers unless we somehow allude to the cold war in everything we write. Sheesh!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:33:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Literary Magazine Fair in New York Comments: To: crumpacker@poetrysociety.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fence & Literal Latte present a LITERARY MAGAZINE FAIR with proceeds going to benefit Housing Works (an organization that supports homeless people with AIDS) Sunday, April 16th, Noon 'til Five p.m. Housing Works Used Book Cafe 126 Crosby Street $2 sample copies and 1/2 price subscription vouchers from participating magazines, including: Agni, American Letters & Commentary, APR, Antioch Review, Conjunctions, Creative Nonfiction, Fence, Grand Street, Lit, Literal Latte, Literary Review, Long Story, Open City, Paris Review, Poetry, Southern Review, Tameme, The Caribbean Writer, The Germ, Tin House, Trafika, and Zoetrope, and with a roundtable discussion sponsored by CLMP: "Words on The Verge," featuring leaders in all literary fields, including: Diane Greco from Eastgate Systems, the country's largest hypertext publisher; Bill Bly, hypertext author of We Descend; David Deifer, editor of XConnect, a literary webzine based at UPenn;. and Ben Anastas, Associate Editor of Grand Street, one of the nation's top-selling and most prestigious print journals since 1981, which has just announced its intention to cease print publication and become a solely online magazine. Roundtable begins at 3 p.m. Cocktail reception at 5 p.m. Cocktails by Soomskaya Vodka Admission is free. For more information: litlatte@aol.com, rwolff@angel.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:45:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Adeena Karasick and Nada Gordon at the Project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A D E E N A K A R A S I C K & N A D A G O R D O N P O E T R Y P R O J E C T @ S T . M A R K ' S A P R I L 1 9 , 8 : 0 0 P . M . [Note: This reading will be taking place at the Third Street Music School, on 11th Street across from St. Mark's Church at 8 PM SHARP. Please plan to be at the reading by 7:45 or earlier.] ADEENA KARASICK is presently working on a CD-Rom intra-genre test, Arrhythmatrix. She is the author of The Empress Has No Closure, Memewars, Genrecide, and Dyssemia. "Karasick's is less a poetry of ideas than ideas of poetry - plural, cascading, exuberant in their cross-fertilization of punning and knowing, theatre and theory." —Charles Bernstein "Mêmewars is electricity in language, especially at its best where 'there's a profusion of presents.' This book makes eye contact with she and with me. It reminds me how being a reader can be exciting." —Nicole Brossard A full bibliography, biography and numerous poems appear at: http://www.library.utoronto.ca/canpoetry/karasick/index.htm An interview with Adeena appears at: http://www.jps.net/nada/karasick.htm NADA GORDON is the author of More Hungry, lip, Rodomontade, and Koi Manuever. Her forthcoming books include foreignn bodie and Correspondence (with Gary Sullivan). "... a couragous attempt to render explicit, through a dramatic embodiment, many concepts that are ostensibly touted and/or embraced by the 'avant-garde' but whose 'products' so rarely achieve, or at least reveal, the symbiosis that occurs both between two people 'in the throes' as it were as well as between those 'blue poles' of 'life' and 'art.'" -Chris Stroffolino (on a 1999 reading/performance) Work from Nada's out of print books and numerous newwer poems appear on her homepage at: http://www.jps.net/nada/nadaroom/ An interview with Nada appears at: http://www.jps.net/nada/gordon.htm Hope to see everyone in NYC there! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 16:07:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Mudlark In-Reply-To: <637373.3164358393@poetrygrad1.lib.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 22 (2000) Lina ramona Vitkauskas Contents: Bolero plays in any apartment in the Midwest at any given time | synapse license bureau | enough where I am hearing you | an immaculate desert | architect of ecstasy | people inherit me | sacristan A-Note: Lina ramona Vitkauskas's fiction has appeared, most recently, in THE MISSISSIPPI REVIEW. She received an Honorable Mention in STORY Magazine's 1999 Carson McCullers Prize competition. She designs the site for milk magazine online, where her poetry has also been published alongside MUDLARK contributors Michael Rothenberg, Simon Perchik, and Sheila E. Murphy. Her poetry will appear soon in BIG BRIDGE online. Spread the word. Far and wide... William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 16:10:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Mudlark Flash No. 5 (2000) In-Reply-To: <637373.3164358393@poetrygrad1.lib.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 5 (2000) Bryan Murphy Contents: Eternity Rap | Visiting the Torture Camp Deaf Aid | Do the Revolution | Step-sisters | Somebody's A-Note: Bryan Murphy was born and raised in England. He has taught English as a foreign language in Portugal, Angola, China, Hong Kong, Thailand, and Bulgaria. At present, he works as a translator in Turin, Italy. His work has appeared, most recently, in AABYE'S BABY, GRAVITY, MAELSTROM, MOVEO ANGELUS, SNAKESKIN, and SWITCHED-ON GUTENBURG. Spread the word. Far and wide... William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:30:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** An evening with poet & filmmaker GAD HOLLANDER * Thurs April 13th ** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETRY CENTER 2000 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents An evening with GAD HOLLANDER Thursday April 13, 7:30 pm, $7 donation @ Yerba Buena Center for the Arts (Mission & 3rd Street) San Francisco a reading & film screening presented in collaboration with San Francisco Cinematheque & Center for the Arts GAD HOLLANDER is a poet and filmmaker living in London. * His latest book of poetry, and first to be published in the US, Walserian Waltzes (Avec Books, 2000) is just out--an extraordinary hall-of-mirrors poem-in-prose revolving around the figure of Robert Walser, the great Swiss-German writer of "minimal" fictions whose work stood behind Kafka and others. * "Neither a biography of Robert Walser, nor a Kafka-in-Queens type of displacement, Walserian Waltzes is closer to what Borges does with Don Quixote. . . . a breathtaking tour de force" --Rosmarie Waldrop. * We'll also be screening his film Diary of a Sane Man (1990, 85 min.). * "This poet-turned-filmmaker's first feature-length film (made on a budget, he points out, for a 15-minute short, using borrowed equipment and scavenged, odds-and-ends stock) is a serendipitous blend of art and irony, philosophic reflection, double-edged nonsense, improvisation, mythology, and the music of Johann Sebastian Bach [performed for the film by pianist Yonti Solomon]. 'In my mind, the music is the main narrative,' Hollander states. 'I've been told that this is a typical first feature film because it has everything in it. That's true, but only because I wanted to have everything in it. I wanted to present a textured complexity.'" (Melissa Drier, Filmfest Journal, Berlin). * Gad Hollander was born in Jerusalem, and spent, as he puts it, "(in/un-) formative years" in Queens, New York. * Tonight's event is his first public appearance in the Bay Area. * =3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3D YERBA BUENA CENTER FOR THE ARTS is located at 701 Mission St. downtown between 3rd & 4th parking in the pay-lot at Mission & 4th from Montgomery BART walk 2 blocks south on 3rd The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from the National Endowment for the Arts, the California Arts Council, Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, Poets & Writers, Inc., and The Fund for Poetry, as well as by the Dean of the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives ~ San Francisco State Univers= ity 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ 415-338-3401 ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:07:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Foley Subject: impoverished poetics? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" See, here's the sort of thing that bugs the crap out of me, this is Perelman in _The Marginalization of Poetry_ talking about Ginsberg and he throws in this about Williams: When Williams writes poems such as "Fine Work in Pitch and Copper," which ends, "One still chewing / picks up a copper strip / and runs his eye along it," he is equating the copper strip with his own poetic line; and thus claiming as unambigu- ous a social status for poet as for roofer. [p. 116] The hell he is. Maybe you could convince me Williams was saying something like this if you showed me the letter where he says, "You know that poem of mine 'Fine work ...'" but I want to see the letter. Otherwise this is the same old crap and Perelman's book is full of stuff like this. Is this the best we can do? Why does this seem like a reasonable way to talk about poetry? Or anything? There's as much evidence to support this interpretation as there is for UFOs as the source of civilization. (Guy at work tells me all about it.) This is what makes me really depressed, that all we have is this sort of impressionism. It's like what Frank Ramsey said, that too often philosophy comes down to exchanges like this: A: I went to Grantchester yesterday. B: No I didn't! It' worthless. The one thing I've thought of in the last few days that points in the direction I'd like to see poetics go is Pound's now hoary distinction of phanopoeia, logopoeia and melopoeia. Now that's useful. But what have we had since then? Almost nothing. So I'm ranting, so sue me. I really love that Williams poem too so it pisses me off to see it treated so cavalierly. And I just checked, indeed Perelman does have the title wrong: it's "Fine Work W I T H Pitch and Copper" not in. Thought I ought to check before being pissed about that too. Here's the whole thing: Fine Work with Pitch and Copper Now they are resting in the fleckless light separately in unison like the sacks of sifted stone stacked regularly by twos about the flat roof ready after lunch to be opened and strewn The copper in eight foot strips has been beaten lengthwise down the center at right angles and lies ready to edge the coping One still chewing picks up a copper strip and runs his eye along it [Selected Poems, p. 107] What I wonder is Williams equating those sacks with, or the roof, and its flatness, what does eating lunch symbolize do you think? --- alright alright I'll stop Someone out there please tell me things are not so bleak and tell me there are great strides toward a real poetics being made even without my help and beyond my ken! Please! Pat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:17:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part III) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit III: Saturday afternoon, panel, "Kindred": Origins of the Black Avant-Garde ____________________________________________________________ After a long lunch, we're back for the afternoon panel with Erica Hunt, Mark McMorris, and Lorenzo Thomas, moderated by Harryette Mullen. Hunt begins, reaching into her recent work on African-American GIs during and after World War II for her sense of one of the "origins" named in the panel title. She speaks to a sense of the brutal push that "four years of constant horror," followed by a homecoming to reaction, must have been, in terms of arguing a need for more self-organizing cultural and political forms. What emerge are approaches to art and language and social movement that take as ground both a commitment to African-American identity and a siting of that identity as a claim on national and world structures of belief, thought, organization. (In this, of course, participating in the global dynamic of the post-war decade which Malcolm X once characterized as a "tidal wave of color"). Hunt's focus is provisionally on music, the radicalization of aesthetic practice in jazz from bebop onward. She characterizes her own entry into that field as deeply affected by the musicians of the AACM -- a personal association with trombonist and electronic musician George Lewis, among others -- and the example in their practices of a reach across global cultures that situates African American music and art upon the broadest possible ground. Hunt speaks of the experience of this music as a realization of "not having to take sides": again, an argument toward a greater stylistic diversity at the height of the Black Arts "moment" than conventional wisdom usually finds there. Even against this background of relative license, Hunt argues for an eye toward wider and wider horizons: "I mean, I don't want to kick Anthony Braxton out of the AACM until he's ready to leave." (In a discussion I have with Hunt after the panel, what emerges is the flipside of this polyvocal, polytonal approach to art- and music-making: Joseph Jarman and Muhal Richard Abrams, giving the name "Great Black Music" to this set of multiple interstices between African, African-American, Afro-Caribbean, European, and Asian musical, theatrical, ritual and social practices. This is an insistence that "reach" is not simply the collapse of difference, that there is in fact the ground to argue for a Black aesthetic and cultural project, but that this project cannot be reduced to categories of folk expression [at least not in terms of one kind of "folk"], and the authentic voice, but is situated in a diasporal reality in which "Blackness" is an ongoing global event). Mark McMorris is next, with a tour de force of a paper interrogating what one might mean by "the African-American avant-garde(s)" / "the avant-garde(s) of the African Americas." There is a three-way negotiation of contradictions and differences here, things that remain in solution without precipitating a sense of simple opposition. On one hand, there is the possibility that at certain historical junctures the language-practice of the collective itself might run ahead of what the previously sedimented "territory" of the language can hold, might make demands for expression that disrupt the language in much the way a more conventionally-understood avant-garde art does. McMorris' example here, drawing from a passage in Eduard Glissant's _Caribbean Discourse_, is the scream of enslaved cane laborers, forbidden to speak in the fields and thus reconfiguring the "inarticulate" outburst to carry information of survival and revolt: "how the dispossessed man organized his speech by...extreme noise." "Meaning from the inside, mumbo-jumbo from the outside." This example produces a lingering pull against the notion -- which still has its own gravity, to be sure -- of the avant-garde as elitist, rooted in a declassed European aristocracy and its hangers-on. Which helps to prepare the "other hand," an account of the Cesairean eruption, the repeated volcanic moment of phonological "noise" in the "Cahier" which echoes, in this context, the field scream. (Don't have the text at hand to cite the spelling of this spell or invocation). "The fury of Cesaire's poetry cannot be ascribed to an aesthetic inclination." Of course, here that's complicated by the countervailing force of those elites mentioned earlier: Cesaire writes in French, to begin with, a linguistic decision that's wrapped up in a complicated series of negotiations and struggles over "elitism," "folk culture," etc. And his "eruption" -- which continues to erupt at odd intervals throughout the rest of McMorris' paper -- places him in an at least provisional alliance with current and recent European avant-gardes: dada and surrealism especially. (And in fact the critique of Cesaire as overly complicit with an elite, "literary" language, which is also perceived as the language of colonialism, becomes something of a mainstay for a later generation's theorists and practitioners of literary creolite [sorry, no accents]. For a _very_ general introduction to this conflict, have a look at the interview with novelist Patrick Chamoiseau at http://caribbean-beat.com/archive/creole.html. That it's much more complicated than such a general introduction can make clear, though, is the upshot of this part of McMorris' paper). And then, on yet another hand -- one needs comrades, perhaps, to get through this -- there is the sonnet by Claude McKay (missed the title -- help?), written out of an earlier return from war, in which discharged Black soldiers home from WWI were subjected to what amounted to house arrest, threatened with both legal and mob violence for appearing in public -- white supremacism masquerading as a concern for public safety, one of its favorite disguises. McKay's poem calls, in fairly decorous, "traditional" tones (by Cesairean standards) for collective resistance up to and including armed defense in response to this intolerable situation. McMorris raises the useful question whether this introduction of radically unprecedented content into literary language, this turning of form to effective "use," might not constitute a different sort of avant-garde practice, every bit as successful as Cesaire's. Finally, McMorris doesn't provide any answers to these questions -- "collective struggle or individual breakthrough?", "ideological intervention or material effect?" -- but manages to ask them more compellingly than I've heard in quite a while. The difficulty of siting a successful avant-garde practice on either side of those "or"s becomes, at the end, a definition of the sincerity of such acts in language -- "sincerity: the precariousness of the interfering / intervening poem." (My slash, not his, as my ears failed me at precisely that point). Lorenzo Thomas is the final panelist, and speaks, among other things, to a further exploration of what seems to be the question for the day: "What are some of the models for a successful African-American avant-garde?" Thomas points to several instances, among them James Weldon Johnson's transformation, in a few short years, from the nation's most highly-remunerated writer of "coon songs" to compiler of spirituals and author of _God's Trombones_. That these aspects of Johnson's work are often approached themselves as instances of a "pre-avant-garde" traditionalism echoes McMorris' concern with precariousness and sincerity. Johnson's placement of this work into an undecided sense of the "living tradition" of the popular and folk materials he draws from stages a critique of his own previous work, and of the broader project of positioning African-American cultural products as easily "digestible" (Mullen's word from the previous day) commodities of representation. At the same time, the very terms of this critique suggest that other such interventions will become necessary -- representations become more complex and qualified over time, perhaps, but they never quite manage to escape representation, which, in terms of categories as politically contested as race, nation, culture, etc., is always going to present new difficulties. Thomas' talk then ranges over a wide stretch of references, including Clyde Taylor's _The Mask of Art_, Matei Calinescu's _Five Faces of Modernity_, Jayne Cortez' _A Blue Book for Blue-Black Magical Women_ (correct title?), the Umbra group, including Ishmael Reed's "A Cowboy in the Sunboat of Ra," mentioned the previous day by Wanda Coleman and picked up again here, the Harlem Renaissance, the Black Arts movement, etc. An interesting claim in this is Thomas' sense that one achievement of the "successful avant-gardes" he considers -- the Harlem Renaissance and Black Arts in literature, bebop in music -- has been their ability to produce from and, in some qualified or unqualified way, back into, popular culture. This finds a certain resonance with the tensions operative in McMorris' paper, and, in its expansion to consider contestations over precisely what terrains of popular culture will be acceptable material for art practice, seems as well to indicate what might be a productive divergence between Thomas and Hunt. Thomas' example here is Reed's poem, whose yoking of Afrocentric ritual, myth and history to entertainment commodities and "white" cultural icons seems to have won the ire of certain Black Arts critics. (Of course, we're all by now familiar in broad outline with the historical narrative of the Black "cowboy," but that's probably beside the point here). This could be a difference of literary generation more than anything else, with Thomas and his Umbra colleagues experiencing their work as something of a direct, critical engagement with the "stylistic prescriptions" of a Black Arts orthodoxy, while younger writers, less intimately involved in that particular contention, might have been able to return to Black Arts practice for indications of a broader, polyvocal approach. At any event, we've run so late that there isn't really time for the divergence to be teased out in the Q&A session -- which is, again, lively and well-informed, if a bit short -- so that discussion will have to wait until another day. Tomorrow: Saturday night's reading and Sunday morning's panel. These will be considerably shorter, since both took place in the absence of the bag in which I carry my notebook. Working entirely from memory, I'll probably have a good deal less to say. Best, Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 07:15:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Landers Subject: Fwd: NYU Press Prize for Poetry Comments: To: subsubpoetics@listbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > The NYU Press and the NYU Division of Libraries > invite you > to attend the award ceremony for the 1999 winner of > the NYU Press > Prize for Poetry, Swan, What Shores? by Veronica > Patterson. > > There will be a reading and reception on Tuesday, > April 18 at 6:00 > p.m. in the Fales Reading Room, Third Floor, Bobst > Library, 70 > Washington Square South . > > Veronica Patterson is the author of one previous > collection of > poetry, How to Make a Terrarium. Her work has > appeared in the > Southern Poetry Review, the Colorado Review, the > Bloomsbury Review, > Caliban, The Sun, and numerous other magazines and > journals. She has > twice been the recipient of a creative writing > fellowship from the > Colorado Council on the Arts. > > NYU Press will publish Swan, What Shores? in May. > > The NYU Press Prizes recognize the work of writers > who, while often > already a known quantity, remain unrecongnized > relative to the quality > and ambition of their writing. Prizes for fiction > and poetry will be > awarded next in 2001. Guidelines for the upcoming > contests will be > posted on the NYU Press website > [www.nyupress.nyu.edu] in September. > Each winner receives a $1,000 prize and publication > of the winning > manuscripts by NYU Press. No phone inquiries > please. > *************************************************** > > Rachel Weiss > Marketing and Sales Manager > NYU Press > 838 Broadway, 3rd floor > New York, NY 10003 > > rachel.weiss@nyu.edu > Tel: 212/998-2575 > Fax: 212/995-3833 > http://www.nyupress.nyu.edu > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:25:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Fiona Maazel Subject: RS READING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Next Tuesday, April 18th, poets GLYN MAXWELL and JAMES LASDUN read at the Russian Samovar. 256 West 52nd St. (btwn 8th and Broadway) 7:00pm; $3.00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- If you'd like to be removed from this list, I won't take it personally. I won't. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:10:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: Republics of Reality: 1975-1995 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Republics of Reality: 1975-1995 contains seven out-of-print books and one new sequence: Parsing (1976) Shade (1978) Poetic Justice (1979) The Occurrence of Tune (1981) Stigma (1981) Resistance (1983) The Absent Father in "Dumbo" (1990) & the new set: Residual Rubbernecking (1995) Since SHADE was Sun & Moon Press's first book (side-stapled, with a "brushed" photograph by Susan Bee on the cover), this publication provides the perfect opportunity to thank Douglas Messerli for all his work on behalf of so many poets and writers (including myself!). _________________________________ Doulgas Messerli sent this post to the list: >Sun & Moon Press >would like to announce the publication (finally) of >REPUBLICS OF REALITY: 1975-1995 by Charles Bernstein. >The book is priced at $14.95 (376 pages). >You can purchase this book directly from Sun & Moon (at my e-mail mailto:djmess@sunmoon.com) for a 20% discount, if you mention the PUBLISHERS WEEKLY review in your order. >The new issue of PUBLISHERS WEEKLY contains a starred >review (representing a book of "outstanding quality"): > >*At once the most paradoxically controversial and popular, accessible and most difficult of the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poets, Bernstein is also the writer of that group who strove early on to experiment with the extremes of its newly minted methods. ... the volume as a whole presents as many promises as it does relevant problems, as many beauties as it does strange new imaginings. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:08:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: Trafika Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A recent posting mentions Trafika, a magazine that used to come out in Prague. Does is still exist? I thought they had died a few years ago. Does anyone here know? Philip Nikolayev ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:35:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: impoverished poetics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In fairness to Perelman, Pat, it looks that way to him within his frame of reference; unfortunately, he valorizes his own point of view with "is," which makes it sound as if he had, once and for all, denominated the official Scenic Outlook, complete with gimballed binoculars at 25¢ for 5 minutes of gape. As long as one insists on whacking together a scaffolding for one's Sistine masterpiece with the mallet of the copula ["be" & its litter], the frame will wobble, & with it the stroke. Yet no one records the name of Michaelangelo's scaffold maker, eh? As for poetics, I prefer it first-hand, as in Spicer's _A Textbook of Poetry_ or _Language_, or practically anything in Duncan, and most especially in Jack Clarke's _From Feathers to Iron_ & elsewhere than in the socio- logical minuets that do-si-do & second-guess [not the intent but] the motivation of the poem from its swerve within some down-the-cosmos gravitational field like the poet's presumed appetite for egalitarianism outside the poem. "The hell it is," you say--using the same verb, by the way [fire w/ fire?]. I happen to agree on this particular, but still find Perelman 'interesting' in places--about all one can hope for, I suppose--perhaps 'informative' serves better than 'interesting'... (though he, and perhaps anyone who opts for the discursive mode to stipulate the aperiodic, seems to spend more time swinging the blade than grinding it --& I'd rather see a samurai sword made & sharpened, *that* end of the art of it, than tested by slicing through the torsos of captives--especially of captive poets). That title--The Marginalization of Poetry--seems to refer as much to the activity it enacts as to the activity it describes, as if the instances cited function as witnesses necessary to prosecute an indictment, but little more within the context of such criticism (which, after all, criticizes society rather than poetry, but turns poetry into social criticism as if to counter the forces of opacity ranged against it--water w/ water?). Not to knock Bob Perelman, who seems (I've never met him) an engaged intelligence of sincere intent, but I've chosen not to barrel-ass a semi in the bike lane (where most of the poets dear to me ride most of the time). Wanna Casey Jones Pound or Ginsberg or Olson--or Baraka, for that matter? Throw on the high beams & damn the air brakes! Dr. Williams seems to have taken a different route--no busses, no trucks. Anyhow, thanks for the challenge. I hope it inspires a string of poetic responses. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Foley To: Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 6:07 PM Subject: impoverished poetics? > See, here's the sort of thing that bugs the crap out of me, this is > Perelman in _The Marginalization of Poetry_ talking about Ginsberg and he > throws in this about Williams: > > When Williams writes poems such as "Fine Work in Pitch and > Copper," which ends, "One still chewing / picks up a copper > strip / and runs his eye along it," he is equating the copper > strip with his own poetic line; and thus claiming as unambigu- > ous a social status for poet as for roofer. [p. 116] > > The hell he is. Maybe you could convince me Williams was saying something > like this if you showed me the letter where he says, "You know that poem of > mine 'Fine work ...'" but I want to see the letter. Otherwise this is the > same old crap and Perelman's book is full of stuff like this. Is this the > best we can do? Why does this seem like a reasonable way to talk about > poetry? Or anything? There's as much evidence to support this > interpretation as there is for UFOs as the source of civilization. (Guy at > work tells me all about it.) This is what makes me really depressed, that > all we have is this sort of impressionism. It's like what Frank Ramsey > said, that too often philosophy comes down to exchanges like this: > > A: I went to Grantchester yesterday. > B: No I didn't! > > It' worthless. The one thing I've thought of in the last few days that > points in the direction I'd like to see poetics go is Pound's now hoary > distinction of phanopoeia, logopoeia and melopoeia. Now that's useful. But > what have we had since then? Almost nothing. > > So I'm ranting, so sue me. > > I really love that Williams poem too so it pisses me off to see it treated > so cavalierly. And I just checked, indeed Perelman does have the title > wrong: it's "Fine Work W I T H Pitch and Copper" not in. Thought I ought > to check before being pissed about that too. Here's the whole thing: > > > > Fine Work with Pitch and Copper > > Now they are resting > in the fleckless light > separately in unison > > like the sacks > of sifted stone stacked > regularly by twos > > about the flat roof > ready after lunch > to be opened and strewn > > The copper in eight > foot strips has been > beaten lengthwise > > down the center at right > angles and lies ready > to edge the coping > > One still chewing > picks up a copper strip > and runs his eye along it > > [Selected Poems, p. 107] > > > > What I wonder is Williams equating those sacks with, or the roof, and its > flatness, what does eating lunch symbolize do you think? --- alright > alright I'll stop > > Someone out there please tell me things are not so bleak and tell me there > are great strides toward a real poetics being made even without my help and > beyond my ken! Please! > > Pat > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:39:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Mayer, Elmslie, Stefans at The Drawing Center MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. ___________________________________________ Mayer, Elmslie, Stefans at The Drawing Center in Manhattan--Tuesday, April 18th, 7pm. Bernadette Mayer, Kenward Elmslie and Brian Kim Stefans will read poetry in conjunction with an exhibition of drawings from the Prinzhorn Collection (drawings obtained from psychiatric patients in Heidelberg between 1918 and 1921) at The Drawing Center, Tuesday, April 18th at 7pm, $5. The Drawing Center is in Soho at 35 Wooster Street between Grand and Broome. This will be the first event in the Line Reading Series, curated by Lytle Shaw. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:28:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Bob Grumman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone got the email address for Bob Gumman? Or is he still on the list? Please contact & thanks, Patrick k e n n i n g a newsletter of contemporary poetry, poetics, and nonfiction writing http://www.durationpress.com/kenning kenningpoetics@hotmail.com 418 Brown St. #10, Iowa City, IA 52245, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:23:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Shapiro Subject: NYC 4/17 event: Meet Shenandoah edtitor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Meet the Editor of Shenandoah Magazine A National Poetry Month Event R.T. Smith, Editor of Shenandoah, will talk about editing a literary publication, and read from his poetry. Shenandoah, based in Lexington, Virginia, is one of the nation's leading literary periodicals. He recently edited "Buck & Wing: Southern Poetry at 2000." Also reading will be Sarah Kennedy, whose book "From the Midland Plain" has recently been published. Founded in 1950, Shenandoah Magazine is celebrating its 50th Anniversary this year. Monday, April 17, 2000 6:30pm FREE Location: 15 West 43 Street New York, NY Take the 1,9,4,5,6,N,R to 42nd Street Station. Call (212) 604 4823 or email gshapirony@aol.com for more information. See you there! & Happy Poetry Month ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:27:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: Reading Report: Wieners Takes Harvard, Reduces it to Ashes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thursday, April 13 in the Year of 2K Poet: John Wieners. Lucid, talkative (for John Wieners). He read for about a half-hour. Best-remembered poem opened with the line: "It's taken me fifty years to learn I cannot write poetry." From anyone else it would have been a platitude (says Mike County later). Today is the second of three Wieners appearances in Boston. First was Saturday night at a party held in his honor at Bill and Beverly Corbett's house in the South End. Two six foot long sandwiches also attended. John sat beside his cousin, her husband, and his nephew while poets read from the book of homage-poems collected for him (The Blind See Only This World: Poems for John Wieners. Granary Books/Pressed Wafer, 2000.) It was an event he endured heroically and even stayed for long after it began to dissolve. [On the sidewalk where the smokers had gathered John stood apart from the crowd. Suddenly a heavy rain began and the smokers filed back inside. John waited in line to reenter the house. As he passed me at the threshold he said, " in we go."] Tuesday, 4/18, John will be in Brookline to read again and be read to again. John stood at a lectern in the Farnsworth Room of the Lamont Poetry Library at Harvard University. Long, gray-black hair slicked back. Unshaven. A white Oxford with thin blues stripes on, sleeves rolled to the elbows. Some kind of fancy crest over the breast pocket. Fifty people in the room, among them: Stratis Haviaras (organizer of the event, and soon-to-be retired curator/director of the Poetry Room), Bill Corbett (introduced Wieners, but I missed it), Jim Dunn (poet and part-time helper of John Wieners), Charles Shively (longtime associate of Wieners; once burned his birth certificate or draft card or passport or something, at a gay-rights rally), Joe Torra, Joel Sloman, Damon Krukowski and Naomi Yang, Carol Weston (talked afterward of how she read poetry once with Wieners and Gerrit Lansing at Boston City Hall in 1964. 1964? Yes, 1964. 1964?!?!? yes....), Jacques Debrot, Helen Vendler, Spenser-scholar Sven Voekel, Sacco-Vanzetti scholar Robert D'Attilio, Chris Sawyer-Laucanno, Patricia Pruitt, Ed Barrett, Patrick Doud, and the list goes on. Thru the window behind Wieners the newly restored tower of Memorial Hall glimmered dully against the disappearing sun. Its new tiles and copper can glimmer, but only dully. Memorial Hall is memorial to the Harvard dead of the Civil War. Look for it in Henry James's 'The Bostonians." In a pause by Wieners I marvel at my own eyesight. The arches in the tower were very distant but quite clear. I could see a hat on the stone ledge if a hat were there. I could see the shadowy space within and the sky beyond. The sky was brilliant and blue, the kind you lose balloons in. Wieners refers to 1971 in the present tense. I got to the reading just a few minutes late. Went to court today instead of work. Waited 6 hours to testify ten minutes; never got the chance. A series of interruptions (bail setting, restraining orders), recesses, and then the window of justice promptly slammed shut at four o'clock. Another tenant vs. landlord case; our organizing helped to bring it here. I am present today to discredit the landlord. He's made the job so easy, being a character out of Brecht's "Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui". I laugh, writing this down: Lawyer: "Is it true Mr. Cuddy notified you that there were mice in his apartment?" Landlord: "Yeah. I told him someone probably left the door open." Judge (with sarcasm): "That's an interesting response." Landlord (unperturbed): "Yeah, I told him to buy some traps and shut the door." Across the street from the courthouse a church is being demolished. Not demolished exactly. Its shell will remain. (It shell remain.) The helmeted guy standing in the dumpster says so. The church interior will be gutted like a fish. For condos? The shell is derivative of the Old West Church in Boston, where I heard Wieners read two years ago where he consistently missed the microphone but we clapped wildly at the end anyway. After the reading and the eating of cheese and some white wine we retire to Charlie's Pub. On the way we see that Briggs and Briggs music store (where they sold sheet music and instrument parts, etc. for about a thousand years) has been replaced by a showy plastic shoe store: Adidas. (As kids we called it: All Day I Dream About Sex.) Now we curse it and its stockholders. No store like this is in Harvard Square to sell things. Only there to function as walk-in catalogues, lose 20 grand a month in rent but the "visibility" is worth it. Boston/Cambridge will be turned completely into a decorative center of corporations and colleges within five years. This is pessimistic but soon we turn sinister: what were the 60s? what were the 90s? Seattle. Bioengineering. Attempts to wedge the debates a bit wider invite the mainstream to call you nuts. But dissent has never been abberant. When the mainstream allows recognition of what for years it strove to ignore, they will call it "underground." Then it can be marketed. Chris and Ed are MIT professors, training tomorrow's class of techno-priests. Will their students ever read Wieners? The Spenser scholar wanted a list of Wieners poems he could bring to his freshmen writing class at BU. Buy the Black Sparrows then call me. There is a spirit in poetry that can be felt, therefore followed. (Like the spirit of law? Shades of Baron de Montesquieu.) Wieners distributes that spirit. Saturday, prefacing his poem, Joe Torra called him "divine." It was not rhetorical. - db ><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard Senior Production Coordinator The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:43:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Will work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" If anyone out there has an endowment and a couple large buildings (maybe just one to start), and is interested in starting a school with a heavy focus on poetry and the arts, please contact me. I Anselm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:10:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: impoverished poetics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "What I wonder is Williams equating those sacks with, or the roof, and its flatness, what does eating lunch symbolize do you think? --- alright alright I'll stop" Pat, Please don't stop. What poetics needs is irreverence. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:09:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part II) In-Reply-To: <001401bfa4d0$dbdcd9a0$17000001@doswlan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just a word of deepest thanks to all who are reporting on this from all who couldn't be there -- does anybody know if tapes were made? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:52:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: looking for work? Fw: Ad in NY Post. 4/10/00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Mitchel Cohen To: mitchelcohen@mindsprng.com Date: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 10:31 AM Subject: Ad in NY Post. 4/10/00 >Classified Ad >NY POST, April 10, 2000 > >MOSQUITO CONTROL TEAM > >Individuals needed for NYC-control >pogram Mid-April through September. >Must be 18+ years old, have excel >driving record and want to spend the >summer outdoors. $10 / hr w/paid >training. Send resume / letter of interest >to Jennifer at Clarke Mosquito Control. > >Fax: 1-800-832-9344 >jenniferburrus@cmosquito.com > >or apply in person >at the Crowne Plaza - LaGuardia Airport >April 12 & 13 >10 am - 5 pm > >equal opportunity employer > >*********************************** >Clarke is one of the contractors used by NYC to spray >the area with insecticides last Sept., using unlicensed, >non-protected, poorly equipped and untrained personnel. > >Apparently non-union as well. > >Folks should apply in person Apr. 12th & 13th to get in >on the inside and find out what is going on. > >Thanx so much to Diane for digging this gem out of >the classifieds in the NY Post. > >- Mitchel Cohen > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 21:34:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Molly Schwartzburg Subject: Wanted: critical work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Poetics folks: I think many of you will be interested in this new journal. Right now we are seeking critical work in particular concerning the subject of "Poetry and Community." Submissions that cross the boundary between "criticism" and "poetry" are also encouraged. --Molly Schwartzburg, Mantis Editorial Board Mantis is a new journal of poetry, poetry translation, and poetry criticism. A forum for writers coming from a broad spectrum of intellectual and aesthetic positions, Mantis is dedicated to publishing new work that interrogates the relationships among critical writing, creative writing and translation. Mantis is a graduate-student run journal edited by a collective of graduate student poets, translators, and scholars at Stanford University. It will appear in numbered issues starting in the fall of 2000. Each issue will include poetry criticism, poetry, and poetry translations that relate to a particular theme. Currently, we are seeking previously unpublished critical essays relating directy to the theme of our inaugural issue "Poetry and Community." Suggested topics include, but are not limited to: manifestoes, spoken work, graffiti, performances, homelands, neighborhoods, rural and urban regions, race, generations, gender, genres, canons, presses, conferences, pedagogies, places, protests, the web, landscapes, anthologies, collaborations, poetry in the academy, subway poetry, poetry utopias . . . . Please send 200-300 word abstracts by e-mail or post no later than May 15, 2000. mantispoetry@hotmail.com Mantis Editorial Board c/o Department of English Margaret Jacks Hall Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2087 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenn Fishman, Department of English Stanford University, Stanford CA 94305 e-mail: jfishman@leland.stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:11:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part II) In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000413170825.00986ed0@lmumail.lmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aldon (and all) -- Yes, we made cassettes directly from the PA (panels only -- the readings unfortunately had to be single-miked. Kush videotaped those, but his prices for dubs recently went up). Anyhow, I think we got all of the panels and most of the Q&A sessions. Well, the A anyhow, since Q happens off-mike. The sound is good, especially considering the slapdash nature of our recording rig: one double-RCA line and the tape deck from my home stereo. I can't say with any certainty how access will work to the tapes -- permissions, etc., and various institutional factors might intervene. But I will get in touch with Jocelyn in the next few days, and will also bring it up at the next board meeting. Best, Taylor Brady -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Nielsen, Aldon Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 5:09 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part II) Just a word of deepest thanks to all who are reporting on this from all who couldn't be there -- does anybody know if tapes were made? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:11:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Will work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have everything here except the large endowment, or for that matter any endowment at all. dreamtime village http://net22.com/dreamtime/index.shtml Poetry Project wrote: > If anyone out there has an endowment and a couple large buildings (maybe > just one to start), and is interested in starting a school with a heavy > focus on poetry and the arts, please contact me. I > > Anselm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:07:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: Re: looking for work? Fw: Ad in NY Post. 4/10/00 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ah, skeet 'batement. Actually, a much-sought after gummit "boys only" summer job where I grew up. Much better than detassling, you get to ride on the back of the truck AND you get to know where all the remote swimming holes are, which, newly sprayed, you will use as settings for killer keggers, with the beer and tiki torches perhaps helped along by the oily chemicals. Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:26:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: impoverished poetics? In-Reply-To: <9b.3a6c67e.2628ab20@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > "What I wonder is Williams equating those sacks with, or the roof, and its > flatness, what does eating lunch symbolize do you think? --- alright > alright I'll stop" > > Pat, > > Please don't stop. What poetics needs is irreverence. > > Murat > OK, then I can ask this: Am I the only person ever who, as a tyke, read this poem way too fast the first time, and thought the worker was chewing the copper strip? Gwyn McVay, for healthy teeth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:40:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: impoverished poetics! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To jump from a Perelman interpretation of WCW that we happen to disagree with to a supposiiton that poetics is impoverished seems as big a leap as this original interpretive overstep. Whatever poetics is there seems to be a lot of it. Poets are not exactly mute about what they are trying to accomplish! Especially when we include the poems themselves along with the essays. I don't see discourse of and about poetry to be impoverished at all in relation, say, to language about music, art, etc... though its sheer excess makes it harder to sort out. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:27:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: announcements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Next Week at the Poetry Project: Monday, April 17 at 8 pm KEVIN OPSTEDAL & MICHAEL PRICE Kevin Opstedal is the editor-in-chief of Blue Book Magazine. His latest book is _Crush_ from SurfZombie Press. Michael Price is the junior editor of Blue Book. His book of poems, _Doombook_, was published by the Figures in 1999. Wednesday, April 19 at 8 pm SHARP SHARP SHARP ADEENA KARASICK & NADA GORDON IMPORTANT: This reading will take place in the Third Street Music School which is across 11th St. from the church. The reading will begin at EXACTLY 8 pm, so please be there on time! Or better yet, early! You will feel refreshed and invigorated! Adeena Karasick is presently working on a CD-Rom intra-genre test, _Arrhythmatrix_. She is also the author of _The Empress Has No Closure_, _Memewars_, _Genrecide_, and _Dyssemia_. Nada Gordon's forthcoming books include _foreignn bodie_ and _Correspondence_ (with Gary Sullivan). Read one of her poems online at http://www.poetryproject.com/gordon.html. NO READING FRIDAY * OFFICE IS CLOSED FRIDAY * HAPPY FRIDAY * The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Ave and 10th St in Manhattan. The Poetry Project is wheelchair-accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information. All readings are $7; $4 for students and seniors; and $3 for members. No advance tickets. Admission is at the door. *** In our office, we recently discovered a few boxes of books, among which were a couple of first editions of Frank O'Hara's _Second Avenue_ published by Corinth Books with a cover by Larry Rivers. Lots of other goodies too! For a full list of titles and prices, go to http://www.poetryproject.com/booksale.html. If you find something you want, e-mail us or call us at (212) 674-0910 and we'll work it out! From April 26-29, The Poetry Project has four readings in a row, and we need help! We're talking volunteers! We especially need help for the April 26 reading, which is AMIRI BARAKA & CECIL TAYLOR, with a reception afterward. Perks: free admission, our gratitude, that special glow from helping others. *** Public Service Announcements Artura Carrera, "one of the best Argentinian poets" (Lila Zemborain), will be reading on Tuesday, April 18th from 6:15-7:30 pm, at NYU, King Juan Carlos I Center, 53 Washington Square South, Auditorium. For information, call (212) 998-3651. Ha publicado entre otros los siguientes libros: Escrito con un nictografo, Oro, Ticket, Children's Corner, Negritos, La banda oscura de Alejandro, fragmentos. *** "I occupy this comfortable chair in your office and you stare at me. We are not speaking to one another, so you've called this uncomfortable time _silence_." from _Point and Line_, Thalia Field, New Directions, 2000 *** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:12:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (parts IV & V) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sans notes from which to work -- except a few written up at home several hours after the events -- these will be a bit briefer than the previous installments. My apologies to panelists, readers, organizers, etc. Too much to keep track of over the weekend, and I think clearing the mental space in which I'd have remembered the notebook allowed me to bring the tape deck, which will prove more important, in the long run, than anything I might have remembered to say. _____________________________ IV: Saturday evening, group reading _____________________________ Nathaniel Mackey begins the evening, reading new and previously-published (in Whatsaid Serif) installments of Song of the Andoumboulou. First piece: "Andoumboulouous Brush." "She blew into my clavicle" -- this line sticks with me, echoing a similar clavicular flute in one or both of the Broken Bottle novels. Eros, time, possession -- time, especially, as means and medium for the other two, though Mackey rarely plays time. Here the sense of his engagement with the musics that so inform his work is perhaps clearest, though least given to explicit reference. (Which reference might be, perhaps, another metronomic form of playing time?) The way pulse speaks of bodily pulsions, also of other bodies, other times whose exclusions from the pulse return to syncopate, stutter against, fragment rhythm: playing _with_ time as what the poet or musician does once playing time comes to seem too much an act of denial and constriction. (Even the single body becomes multiple: there's that great, probably apocryphal story of drummer Sunny Murray, who during a solo drum clinic and discussion of polyrhythm invites an audience member to the bandstand to take the pulse in his right and left wrists and verify that the two are beating different times). Need I add that Mackey reads these pieces beautifully, has obviously thought much about questions of vocal timbre, pitch, etc.? Mark McMorris follows, reading several poems. The one that stays with me beyond the bus ride home is the long final suite, called, I think, "Where the Pui Trees Flare." (McMorris explains that this names a vibrant, yellow-blossoming tree found in Jamaica. I'm not sure about the spelling -- "pui-pui," I know, is a Virgin Islander word for a species of green parrot, and the sound is similar enough that I've adopted that spelling here. Of course, "Pui" also occurs fairly often in Chinese names, and a search on Google turned up genealogy pages for several Chinese-American and Chinese-Jamaican families. Might this be a source for the word? Just curious). "The sweetie-man selling chewing gum and stockings": immediately I'm nostalgic, not having heard anyone mention the sweetie-man since I left Tampa, where it's much easier than in SF to hear a Jamaican lexicon as part of everyday speech. McMorris' poem attempts to engage what he describes in later discussion as the cultural project of a leftward turn in Jamaican politics in the 70s, during which a fairly intensive series of rehabilitations, celebrations, etc., of folk and popular forms was proposed as the basis for the cultural work of nation-building. A deeply serious -- and beautiful -- address to the comforting familiarities, wounding edges, utopian promise and missed opportunities of such a project to locate an "utterance at climate level," its conflation of "organic" return and forward-looking synthesis making of it a moment "past and still passing." Harryette Mullen then takes the lectern to read from her current manuscript. The puns in literary/vernacular/synthetic polylogics are still there, but in place of the extended blues choruses of Muse & Drudge, these propose a form both shorter (in the literal sense) and more expansive (in that there's a discursive quality in them). Didn't get to see them on the page, but they sounded like prose poems. Some are almost like short essays, though packed with a much denser and more kinetic variety of language-action than one usually attaches to that term. The discursivity allows a kind of topical pointedness to take place here, while that sense of activity keeps things from getting too settled. One poem toward the end brings this method to bear on the post-LA-uprising, post-Desert Storm disorders of spectatorship, the co-opted techniques of aesthetic estrangement that allow us collectively to utter phrases like "low-intensity conflict" or "local unrest" without choking. The argumentative, prose-essay approach allows for a continuity of focus here, while the clash of multiple idiolects allows for a sustained and various insistence that the reality is other than what that lens brings into view. Powerful work, and Mullen's reading works well to sustain it, mustering an almost conversational, relaxed assurance in the midst of that density -- suggesting again a term she's brought up several times during the conference, hybridity, which is here the double realization that theory and critique are a kind of dialect, and that what's more usually called dialect has been all along making a theoretical, critical claim on the attention. Julie Patton's reading will probably defy my abilities at description, but here goes: Most memorable is a long piece, in the language of botany, filled with innuendo sexual and otherwise. (During the next day's panel, Patton speaks of her delight in working with "all that dirty Latin"). She foregrounds vocal performance as strongly as Coleman did on Friday night -- though answering to a completely different set of imperatives. Voice slides back and forth between speech, chant, sprechstimme, scat, post-bop jazz song, even a playground rhyme sort of cadence from time to time. Which makes a forceful case and summing-up for one angle on what's been a value for the conference as a whole, namely, the compossibility of, on the one hand, tradition(s), research and understanding into the histories and identities that feed into the performance, and on the other hand, the liminal status of the performance itself -- that it does, in fact, perform, not recite. Very valuable for me to hear it in this space, which is not by force of habit given to such an emphasis on the in-time nature of poetic performance. Oh yes, there's also, at the beginning, a lovely crackly tape of Russell Atkins at home, wordless vocal improv with such a lush gruffness that the buzz of harmonics around the edge approximates at times the sound of certain throat- or nose-singng traditions. Which gets me thinking again about Mackey's writing on the "rasp," "the creaking of the word," etc... ...but not for long, as Lorenzo Thomas comes on to finish the evening. Poems deceptively easy-going that manage, by that approach, to get all the way up to your ear and then whisper to you, both disquietingly and sustainingly, all the way home. Home being, of course, one of the preoccupations here -- I like, especially, the poem on visiting a Florida orange grove on the verge of getting plowed under, marked out in the survey flags that signal the coming of condos. (A condition I remark every time I go home). Speaking of his hosts' former involvement, rootedness, in that landscape, "For their children, I guess license plates will have to do." Which works, at first, with the comfortable sadness of the wry humor it comes off as. But later, still whispering to me, it tells a different, uglier story, asks a different question: what happens to all that displaced agricultural labor, that one understood as such large portion of what "work" meant in Florida? Making license plates is labor of a different sort, and was, last I was home to visit and checked on such things, still a prison industry. Power makes provision for displacement by way of confinement. This sense of utterance and art being haunted by a second, or third, etc., unanticipated voice runs throughout the reading: "These faces do not depict people, but _are_ the spirits that were visiting the tree when [anyone write down the artist's name?] came to carve it." (That's a _very_ rough paraphrase, by the way). My emphasis here misses by a mile, also, the roll-on-the-floor funny quality of so much of what Thomas read -- citations to this effect from other commentators would be much appreciated, as I think it's the weaving of the one affective register into the other that made for the lasting impact his reading had on me. _____________________________ V: Sunday morning, panel, "Tell My Horse": Poetics of Practice _____________________________ Tired, tired, so very tired....a few brief notes on this panel which, between my fatigue, trouble with the tape deck, and the still-missing notebook, ends up being my least notated. Other thoughts here, perhaps? Anyhow, apologies to moderator giovanni singleton and the panel participants for doubtless missing much of value. My subjective impression is that this one has a different feel, maybe the result of everyone having spent the weekend together. Congenial, relaxed, lots of reminiscence -- still, of course, to great argumentative effect in terms of the issues raised throughout the conference, but more in the mode one might address those concerns in talk with a familiar interlocutor. Some highlights, for me: Will Alexander talking about the push or pull toward the vertical that first hearing Coltrane was. (Can't remember whether he mentioned Om or Ole in this connection -- those long O's and me with no notebook. My inclination would be to hear Om that way, but you could probably make a case for it in Ole as well, what with the two basses producing all those surprising eddies of time that generate potential for motion in unexpected directions, i.e., letting the line of the soprano go suddenly vertical). Julie Patton on the "site-specific" in her work, both formally and as a decription of its groundedness in city and place. The planes and pallettes of backyards, lake, museum in Cleveland. The way those perceptual values give onto political ones, her mother an art teacher at [name?], classes in the carriage house behind her home, that integrated classroom becoming a potential liability, occasion for thought on one sort of the "precariousness" named in McMorris' paper, during mid- and late-60s rioting. All of which could be taken to argue for the autonomy of artistic practice, its sitedness nowhere but in its own made place. Or, read again, for the inevitability of that art speaking from and to histories of violence, struggle, provisional futures, etc., the way the Cleveland landscape ends up figuring as analogy for later art practice, and the consequent need to take the _whole_ of that landscape into the analogy. Cecil Giscombe on the opening, for him, that was Baldwin's work, recommended by a priest in the Catholic school he attended. A different sort of church tradition anchoring a significant strand of African American literary history -- Giscombe (paraphrased): "Of course, we weren't Catholics. But my parents did what the Black middle class there (St. Louis) had long done, and sent their kids downtown to learn with the Catholics." Emphasis on the value of Baldwin's "articulation, in every sense of that word." And a similar stress laid of Toomer's Cane, its proposal of the migration from Deep South to Upper Midwest as the site -- site in transition, "past and still passing" -- of his own work toward an African American poetics. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Alright, I think I'll wrap things up there, with a final comment to second what Tisa Bryant wrote the other day about the generosity of people at the conference. And that includes so many -- panelists and readers, organizers, volunteers, audience members. Simply for the chance to hear such engaged, knowledgeable, and open approaches to the usually deadly axe-grinding of the Q&A session... well, thanks to everyone involved. And for the continuation of those questions and that talk in restaurants, bars, buses, street corners, on and on. Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:24:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christina Milletti Subject: Conference Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CARTO-GRAPHICS: Bodies of Production, Migration, & Subjectivity April 22, 2000 Carto-Graphics--the first annual graduate student conference sponsored by the English Department at the State University of New York at Albany--is scheduled for Saturday, April 22. The conference will address issues of mapping/writing between/across/among a nexus of disciplines. Panelists represent English, Comparative Literature, Photography, Anthropology, and Foreign Languages departments. Dina Al-Kassim will deliver a lunch-time keynote address, "The Faded Bond: Calligraphesis and Kinship in Abdelwhahb Meddeb's Postcolonial Fiction." A question session will follow. The conference will be held on SUNYA's uptown campus (1400 Washington Avenue) in the newly opened Science Library. Panels will take place at the Garden Level at the Center for Excellence for Teaching and Learning. Panels include: Compassing the Earth: Eco-Maps & Spatial Order How Soon Is Now? Negotiating the Space of the Independent Press Excessive Bodies and Bodies of Excess Deterritorializing Borders: Space, Gender, & Genre Space-Making: Figured Landscapes On the Borders of the Digital: Hypermedia, Pedagogy, Genealogy The Fiction of Limits Reading Identity: Representing an-Other Discourse The Registration fee for the conference is $15.00. There is a 20% discount for preregistration ($12.00). Please make checks out to "Carto-Graphics" and send them to SUNY Albany, English Department, Carto-Graphics Conference, 1400 Washington Avenue, Albany NY 12222. The registration fee will cover costs for lunch and a post-conference cocktail hour at Lulu's Cafe on Lark Street where drinks and hors d'oeuvres will be served free of charge. If you have any questions about the conference or would like to see a conference schedule, please feel free to e-mail Christina Milletti at MillettiC@aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 18:31:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Vapid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Vapid Ju16lu% date Ju17lu% Sat Apr 15 17:23:29 EDT 2000 _ cit. ::./) have been planktonic follies, caught alive, drowned in pure air (lit. and so our lives passed uneventfully, full of love and happiness). (lit. op. thus did skeins contribute to the cascading waters enmeshing of what might Sat Apr 15 17:24:34 EDT 2000 How did it come to this, words cascaded, in disarray, memory of older orders lost and drowned with them, words poised in slow and circling waves between surface and bottom, sludged and slurried lay- ers, all in the space of a night, dull morning, gloomy afternoon? Time hurries without us, works its slow unravelings; letters lose their violent hold on meaning. Remember that, meaning is always caught alive or not at all, the monstrosity of noise, shrill echoes blanking out the remnants of the world around us. Just as I write these words, they begin their incessant decay; already I picture transpositions, occlusions, vapors, the vapid... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 23:38:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Shoemaker Organization: Wake Forest University Subject: Re: impoverished poetics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick--I haven't read Perelman's book yet, so I don't have the context for this passage, and without having read the argument I'm not sure what I would make of the comment about "claiming social status for the poet." BUT it really doesn't strike me as that big of a stretch to say that Williams is talking, at least partly, about his own poetic line here. He does this sort of thing, either implicitly or explicitly, zillions of times, in poem after poem. He was really pretty obsessed with the subject & this is evident in the the poems, the essays, *and* the letters. It would be easy to make the case with an explicit example, but it's more fun with an implicit one, so let's take the end of the poem from Spring and All that later got titled the "The Right of Way": Why bother where I went? for I went spinning on the four wheels of my car along the wet road until I saw a girl with one leg over the rail of the balcony Those last two lines are "about" enjambment. They give us a witty image of the practice even as they also enact it. This sort of meta-commentary runs all through Williams and makes for some damn good "poetics" in its own right. steve Patrick Foley wrote: > > See, here's the sort of thing that bugs the crap out of me, this is > Perelman in _The Marginalization of Poetry_ talking about Ginsberg and he > throws in this about Williams: > > When Williams writes poems such as "Fine Work in Pitch and > Copper," which ends, "One still chewing / picks up a copper > strip / and runs his eye along it," he is equating the copper > strip with his own poetic line; and thus claiming as unambigu- > ous a social status for poet as for roofer. [p. 116] > > The hell he is. Maybe you could convince me Williams was saying something > like this if you showed me the letter where he says, "You know that poem of > mine 'Fine work ...'" but I want to see the letter. Otherwise this is the > same old crap and Perelman's book is full of stuff like this. Is this the > best we can do? Why does this seem like a reasonable way to talk about > poetry? Or anything? There's as much evidence to support this > interpretation as there is for UFOs as the source of civilization. (Guy at > work tells me all about it.) This is what makes me really depressed, that > all we have is this sort of impressionism. It's like what Frank Ramsey > said, that too often philosophy comes down to exchanges like this: > > A: I went to Grantchester yesterday. > B: No I didn't! > > It' worthless. The one thing I've thought of in the last few days that > points in the direction I'd like to see poetics go is Pound's now hoary > distinction of phanopoeia, logopoeia and melopoeia. Now that's useful. But > what have we had since then? Almost nothing. > > So I'm ranting, so sue me. > > I really love that Williams poem too so it pisses me off to see it treated > so cavalierly. And I just checked, indeed Perelman does have the title > wrong: it's "Fine Work W I T H Pitch and Copper" not in. Thought I ought > to check before being pissed about that too. Here's the whole thing: > > Fine Work with Pitch and Copper > > Now they are resting > in the fleckless light > separately in unison > > like the sacks > of sifted stone stacked > regularly by twos > > about the flat roof > ready after lunch > to be opened and strewn > > The copper in eight > foot strips has been > beaten lengthwise > > down the center at right > angles and lies ready > to edge the coping > > One still chewing > picks up a copper strip > and runs his eye along it > > [Selected Poems, p. 107] > > What I wonder is Williams equating those sacks with, or the roof, and its > flatness, what does eating lunch symbolize do you think? --- alright > alright I'll stop > > Someone out there please tell me things are not so bleak and tell me there > are great strides toward a real poetics being made even without my help and > beyond my ken! Please! > > Pat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 06:29:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: AziMuth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. - T.S. --On Sunday, April 16, 2000, 10:33 AM +0000 RJRVE@aol.com wrote: Lacuna Arts, a non-profit, is glad to announce the release of the first issue of AziMuth. Issue One includes poetry by Roderick Iverson, Christina O'Connor and Richard Reeve, a previously unpublished essay by Charles Olson and the first eight chapters of JAH's DEP by Sam Libby. See it at www.azimuthmag.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:52:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Apr 2000 to 14 Apr 2000 (#2000-60) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/15/00 12:24:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: << Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:43:32 -0400 From: Poetry Project Subject: Will work If anyone out there has an endowment and a couple large buildings (maybe just one to start), and is interested in starting a school with a heavy focus on poetry and the arts, please contact me. I Anselm >> Anselm, Call me. Bob H 2123346414 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 06:35:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Urgent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: mIEKAL aND does anyone have answer for this. this question came to my dictionary of neologisms project on the web. apparently she thot we were the definitive source for neologism info. From: "Izmailova Helena" To: Subject: urgent Hie! I found your online dictionary, wanted to consult it, but haven't found there he following words. So I have a question whether they are neologisms or not: from an Interview with Bob Marley: "Bumbaclot" , "Bumbablood-clot" "Locksman" (he spesks about Jesus) Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 22:12:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: glove@THING.NET Subject: MOMA, 21 April, 6-8pm Comments: To: ray@zzounds.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For Immediate Release Contact Person: Cindy Tower (718) 386-4531 3 April 2000 ---C H E C K E D--- ---C H E C K E D--- ---C H E C K E D--- ---C H E C K E D--- ---A collaborative ---Art Show ---Of Checked Coats ---Featuring Work ---By 40 Artists ---At ---Museum Of Modern Art (M.O.M.A.) ---11 West 53rd Street ---New York, NY 10019 ---Good Friday, ---21 April 2000, 6-8 pm On Good Friday, April 21, 2000, 6-8 pm, 40 artists will check their artwork inside their coats, into the MOMA coat room. The playful intent of the project is to locate an artistic happening somewhere in the vast physical and abstracted chasm between the artist's imaginations and the brick and mortar institutions that ratify and reify their creative ambitions. The show will simultaneously occupy the most public and the most private of spaces. The event occurs inside the walls of one of the most visible of all art cathedrals, but it exists most tangibly inside the heads, or rather the coats of the participating artists, unseen by 99% of MOMA's visitors. The "audience" for the show will consist almost exclusively of the artists themselves and their immediate circle of friends. Checked's further intent is to "sanctify" the "exhibited" work in much the same way religious institutions sanctify relics by palcing them in the shrouded cavities of their most holy sites. The relocation of the art objects in Checked to this holy site will contribute to their beautification, for they will become seasoned with meaning, metaphor and historic significance. While the major theme is that of transubstantiation, sub themes include longing, loss, accessibility, inclusiveness. Checked can't help but be a comfy viewing experience since the whole show exists only in the minds of it's willing collaborators. Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 06:37:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Tom Raworth's TOTTERING STATE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came to the administrative account. - t. shaner --On Sunday, April 16, 2000, 11:52 AM -0700 "Leslie Scalapino" wrote: Tom Raworth's selected writing, TOTTERING STATE, has just been reprinted by O Books (ISBN 1-882022-38-6, 240 pages, $15.00). Available from SPD. It features new work, including the entire fast-moving mind-wrecking WRITING. Lyn Hejinian said about this collection: "The writings in this TOTTERING STATE are ardent, wry, wise, brilliant -- they are subtle and momentous. They are responsive to the minute as to the massive pressures that language and life exert. They are explorations, not outcomes. And yet they make demands, and consequences continually occur. Some of these consequences are funny (Tom Raworth has a tragedian's sense of the comic as one of life's fated inevitabilities), some are frightening or sad. These are among the greatest writings of out times." Anselm Berrigan says: "Tom Raworth wants to get all the way round the railroad earth before the bell rings, one of the few who even try, &we get these tottering states, equal parts light and dark of mind, lavished on us when he does, &he often does." Miles Champion says: "Stretched tight across Life while allowing both mind &eye to breathe, this writing orients reading on the set where the action is. The backcloth is limitless/polychromatic (& no, the walls of the ego are NOT the walls of the set). As Shorty Fleming noticed while out picking plums: 'Tom Raworth's ( )ed through THAT fence.' " ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:35:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: Reading Report: Wieners Takes Harvard, Reduces it to Ashes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan, Thank you for your beautiful evocation of JW's reading. When I try, though, to put my finger on W's affect--for me--it's a somewhat different feeling than what you suggest. What can one say about W's most recent work? He's not Artaud lecturing at the Theatre du Vieux. . . . You can't say that he's on to anything really of any value now, or interest. Rather, my feeling, watching JW read, is that it's like listening to someone **who has died**--being in the presence of someone who is dead--so, yes, 1971 **is** in the present tense. &, although I am an atheist, I did feel as though I was in the company of ghosts . . . of O'Hara's ghost, and Spicer's . . . --Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:30:04 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kimball Subject: Unburdened MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Schjeldahl sees "funny inflations" in art today as "very 2000," and I wonder how this does not pertain to today's societies and texts of poetry. Schjeldahl argues unapocalypticallly, "Art today waits upon the idiosyncratic decisions of artists as at no other moment," taking work at the Whitney Biennial and P.S. 1 "Greater New York" as his most recent palimpsest. He writes, "creative sap is running backward from art's public branches to its personal and small-constituency roots"; more, there's "a flexibility among current artists that replaces the avant-gardish truculences of yesteryear...The locus of artistic freedom now is art itself, which is apparent in all the blooming sophistication about the uses of mediums and genres. Our new artists industriously fit tasks to tools." "Ambitious ideas are out. Humble principles are in, notably a professional dedication to pleasing viewers." Schjeldahl is impressed but sees a grandiose mediocrity -- "because something crucial to ultimate excellence is missing... Our aversion to extremes prohibits the extraordinary." We demand "peak performances" from sports, entertainment, design, etc., yet in matters of art "we skim along" and leave "untouched" aspirations and sufferings. To wait or ask for more? We can't have everything, Schjeldahl says. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 07:46:53 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Shawn Aron Vandor Subject: one last change of name Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello, The new (and final) eddress for Poetry new York is pny2000@hotmail.com. Sorry for the confusion. Yours, Shawn Aron Vandor Editor, Poetry New York ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:58:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" POETS FOR CHOICE A Benefit for Planned Parenthood of New York May 5th-Friday at 7:30 PM coordinated by Corinne Robins & Carol Goebel Douglas Messerli Nick Piombino Corinne Robins Suggested Donation $8.00 CERES GALLERY #306 584-88 Broadway NYC 10012 226-4725 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:07:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Last Fence Reading For A While Comments: To: crumpacker@poetrysociety.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fence presents Fence #5 with a reading by contributors Monica de la Torre, Tom Glynn, and Tessa Rumsey Friday, April 21st, 7 pm Housing Works Used Book Cafe 126 Crosby Street, New York Admission is Free ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:43:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: "political" pomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for cross postings . . . "Poetry in the news; the news in poetry": there are poems touching on the polis (and a past century) by Hardy, Shelley, and this writer--Reagan *and* Nixon, as it happens, at http://communities.prodigy.net/news/poempage.html Rachel Rachel Loden http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/hotel.html email: rloden@concentric.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:32:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Burger Subject: Reading @ New Langton, SF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Come See Hear! In New Langton's continuing occasional exploration of visual poetries, JACQUES DEBROT and AVERY BURNS read, show slides, and carry on: Saturday, April 22, 8 pm New Langton Arts 1246 Folsom Street @ 9th San Francisco, CA 94103 415.626.5416 ph www.newlangtonarts.org Tickets: $6 general, $4 students, seniors, Langton members. AVERY BURNS will present a reading/slide show of his new chapbook Geneva_A Duelling Primer_: GenevaThe poems in A Duelling Primer, refered to as figures, contain two parts. The first combines illustrations from an 18th Century fencing manual with a form of free associative eckphrasis. The second part reverses the order with a brief lyric followed by a visual element. Pascal's four-square turned from belief to communication. Many primers start with an ABCs and this work is no exception: Action; Buy a vowel; Careen across the floor; Defend; Ekphrasis; ET CETERA! JACQUES DEBROT will provoke us: Is poetry for nothing or for all or nothing? In a multimedia presentation from his new chapbook _Confuzion Comix_ and other works, Jacques Debrot will confuse this issue entirely. Think of Pop art, Emily Dickinson, television infomercials, and _The Joy of Sex_ and you will have some idea of the effect Debrot is aiming for in his nose-pressed-against-the-department store-window-poetry. Or, to put it another way, if it doesn't look like a duck, or walk like a duck, or sound like a duck, can it really be a duck? GenevaCopies of _A Duelling Primer_ and _Confuzion Comix_Geneva (both from Second Story Books) will be available at the reading. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:15:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Marks Subject: Re: "Criticism" Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gary, I've pasted a review below of Dan Featherston's "26 Islands" for you to use if you want. I did post it to the list back in May if that makes a difference to you. I also have a visual essay of Joan Retallack's "NOH S'EX" on my web site at www.99main.com/~swmarks/essays.htm for you to publish if you'd like. You could just download the JPGs right from the site or, I guess, use the URL and open up the essay in another window.Whatever. Hope you find either or both of use now or for future issues. Thanks. best, Steven swmar@99main.com www.99main.com/~swmarks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:52:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Brian Lennon Subject: New hypermedia at The Iowa Review Web, April 2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII \ ***sorry for xposting*** ] New at The Iowa Review Web, April 2000 ] Hypermedia Diane Greco: Simple Harmonic Motion or, Josephine Baker in the Time Capsule c. allan dinsmore: Pronunciation:'fut, or: A Tool and it's Means ] Forthcoming: May, 2000 ] Hypermedia Michael Joyce: Reach Jim Andrews: Divine Mind Fragment Theater ] http://www.uiowa.edu/~iareview/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:09:23 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "William James Austin" To: ; "Lawrence Upton" Sent: 17 April 2000 16:22 Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! | Hi L! Thanks for your confusion. Maybe you've given me a chance to | clarify. The "thing" is visual poetry. That seemed a pretty clear | reference to me. No confusion from Bob--at least not yet. As I | said, not every visual poem fits the category. Ah! I knew you were talking about vispo and my "What things?" was a kind of rhetorical opposition to your claim. As you say, not every vispo fits the category; but you didn't say that then. I was probably doing you a disservice but it seemed then that "these things" was glossing over the fact that you were speaking of *some vispo as if it were *all vispo. As to greatness, I'm still fighting that one. No surrender, say I. | I must admit that interrogating everything. every word, every | nuance, is really interesting for me. So again, thanks. | A Brit, huh? I've been to London several times, performed there, | and loved it. Those guys (the Londoners) appreciated my nasty | NYC stuff (poetry). One of the best audiences I've ever had. Gor blimey guv, you ain't wrong is yer. Lor bless yer, Sir, you's a real gent. I'll tell me missis wha you said. She'll be tickled pink and no mistake abou' it. Likes a poem, she does, especially an American poem; got the taste for it watchin' Sesame Street L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:58:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Re: Trafika In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000413200802.00be21ec@pop.fas.harvard.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Trafika #7 was published last fall, and is now available (but not distributed). Check their new website for details: www.trafika.org w. martin >A recent posting mentions Trafika, a magazine that used to come out in >Prague. Does is still exist? I thought they had died a few years ago. Does >anyone here know? > >Philip Nikolayev -------------------------- CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:57:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Barbara Guest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends, I would like to contact Barbara Guest--does anyone have a contact number or address? Please backchannel. Thanks, Alicia Askenase Notable Poets and Writers Series Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:08:13 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: poetry month cont. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Monday night the 13th at Larry's, Gina Tabasso read her work to an energetic group of 68 folks mostly from OSU on this particular evening. She started with pieces from the _Between my Legs_ collection published by New Spirit Press. Then continued into a second, unpublished manuscript, then into a third manuscript called The Centaur Poems, which contained recent pieces in the Mid-American Review, Black Dirt, Slant and others. A ten minute break was needed. About the poems, the centaur poems are a serial work re-invigorating the age old theme between horses and women and the love expressed between. There is no simple way to breach this widely ignored tradition, without the poems sounding trite on this medium, but there are resonances similar to Joy Harjo and the notion of the reverse centaur, man on bottom, worked incredibly well. The audience enjoyed the reading tremendously even Victor, who is unable to speak, belted his only sound out a few times, WHOO-ahhhhhh, and somebody wet somebody elses pants spilling a pitcher in surprise. The second 25 minute set was real fine, wish I had something here to give an example-- Highlights of the open, some real fine poems & translations by Robert Waugh, Rose M. Smith ploughed the audience with her piece about inheriting a boiling pot used for raccoon, Steve Abbott read a long poem with some motile imagisme, the raffle book this week, June Jordan's newest book was inflicted upon our lucky winner and Rita Moog read a fine piece about candles. The jukebox came on shortly after playing I just wanna be your dog. The after reading party was at my house again, this time Stevie Mainard, Lara Mellott, Rita Moog, Julie Otten, Steve Abbott, and others with most of the conversation focused on thoroughbreds, care and maintanence, Dave Snodgrass' slam events & where the hell he was, a recent trip to Rome and Egypt, relationship problems, Jason and the Argonauts, the usual poetic concerns. Left the place to Gina for the night, crashed elsewhere, woke early, showed her our fine city, the biggest in Ohio, up to 15th population-wise this year, ate some food at the dirty blue danube, got some sleep & readied for company from NY Wed, Oregon thurs-- Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:51:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Epstein Subject: Poetry Reading, 4/25 (NYC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List -- For those of you who are nearby and/or interested: -------------------------- The F. W. Dupee Poetry Reading Series presents MICHAEL LONGLEY introduced by Kenneth Koch Tuesday, April 25 8 PM Ward Dennis Room Lewisohn Hall, 5th Floor Columbia University 116th St. and Broadway New York, NY Admission Free for information call 212-854-3215 The Irish poet Michael Longley is the author of numerous collections of poetry, most recently The Weather in Japan (2000) and The Ghost Orchid (1995). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:52:48 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bruce andrews Subject: SALLY SILVERS & DANCERS, performances next week, music & text (BRUCE ANDREWS); reserve yr seats! Comments: To: Salsilv@aol.com, aaka@earthlink.net, MaryJoBang@aol.com, basinkski@acsu.buffalo.edu, berstei@bway.net, aberrigan@excite.com, eberrigan@hotmail.com, cborkhuis@aol.com, bbrand@pipeline.com, breerflax@compuserve.com, leeann@tenderbuttons.net, stephen.burt@yale.edu, dbyrd1@nycap.rr.com, cocodrilo@infohouse.com, dcarson@earthlink.com, achild@mail.slc.edu, sclay@interport.net, Atticus40@aol.com, tonyc@wfmu.org, crumpacker@poetrysociety.org, daviesk@is4.nyu.edu, timothy.davis@yale.edu, JDebrot@aol.com, jderksen@mindspring.com, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, mdurand@sprynet.com, dworkin@princeton.edu, BEinzig@aol.com, dariaf@earthlink.net, dfar@erols.com, fermon@panix.com, afilreis@english.upenn.edu, efodaski@earthlink.net, jfoos@idt.net, efoster@vax.stevens_tech.edu, travmar03@eemail.msn.com, cfunk@megahertz.njit.edu, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, drewgard@erols.com, jgibbons@interport.net, agil@erols.com, revdest@aol.com, mgizzi@massed.net, rootheee@yahoo.com, kennyg@bway.net, kennyg@wfmu.org, mgott@tele-monitor.com, jsgray@Princeton.edu, vgrenier@twcny.rr.com, ernesto.grosman@yale.edu, BJHammer@aol.com, cuz@richardhell.com, henryh@interport.net, nuyopoman@aol.com, jhull1@idt.net, ehunt@igc.org, Lairdhunt@aol.com, akiko_ichikawa@hotmail.com, psjavier@aol.com, JJULLICH@claven.gsb.columbia.edu, JULIANRENE@aol.com, flowgurl@yahoo.com, dkane@panix.com, adeena@compuserve.com, kimmelman@NJIT.edu, ewk3@columbia.edu, susanlanders@yahoo.com, katy@bway.net, levyaa@is.nyu.edu, penwaves@mindspring.com, jeanli@interport.net, LLubasch@compuserve.com, dmachlin@pop.interport.nete, tarmac@pipeline.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, marzanj@aol.com, bernadette_mayer@excite.com, cchrsmccrry@aol.com, cmorrow@cmorrow.com, ENauen@aol.com, jxn8@psu.edu, pneufeld@sapient.com, sngai@fas.harvard.edu, bardicg@aol.com, josman@ASTRO.OCIS.Temple.edu, perelman@dept.english.upenn.edu, PetersM50@hotmail.com, wanda@interport.net, ts20@COLUMBIA.EDU, poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu, polito@newschool.com, prev@erols.com, aquart@ibm.net, mragona@aol.com, parergon@aol.com, retal@wam.umd.edu, dirk@rcn.com, sethrubi@aol.com, csawyer@polshek.com, mscharf@CAHNERS.COM, harris4@idt.net, Andrea_Scott@Whitney.org, blair@bway.net, morocco@walrus.com, GShapiroNY@aol.com, prapra@aol.com, jsherry@panix.com, sikelianos@aol.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, AERIALEDGE@aol.com, sondheim@panix.com, Deborah_Stover@Sundance.org, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, gps12@columbia.edu, susan@pierogi2000.com, rjtejada@acsu.buffalo.edu, edwinliz@yahoo.com, RT5LE9@aol.com, sam@truitt.com, patvic@interport.net, csw1@idt.net, Mac_Wellman@brown.edu, darrenwh@sympatico.ca, susanwheeler@earthlink.com, rwolff@angel.net, WrightCD@aol.com, JYau974406@aol.com, younggeoffrey@hotmail.com, hzinnes@aol.com, jzweig@quicklink.com, lungfull@interport.net, Pny33@hotmail.com, popproj@artomatic.com, shark@erols.com, salsilv@aol.com, andrews@fordham.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----NetAddressPart-00--=_qV1W6880S0y49194173" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------NetAddressPart-00--=_qV1W6880S0y49194173 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. ------NetAddressPart-00--=_qV1W6880S0y49194173 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Forwarded Message" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rly-na03.mx.aol.com [205.188.158.40] by nm195 via mtad (2.6) with ESMTP id 325eDNV8i0204M19; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:59:08 GMT Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.2]) by rly-na03.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:58:53 -0400 Received: from SalSilv@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id x.af.25d7be3 (7332) for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:58:47 -0400 (EDT) From: SalSilv@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:58:46 EDT Subject: new press release To: andrewsbruce@netscape.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 100 SALLY SILVERS & DANCERS: Storming Heaven April 26-29 [Wed-Sat] 8pm $15 "Choreographer tears through a century of revolutions spanning from the Paris Commune to the Zapatista Rebellion." Choreographer: Sally Silvers Performers: Karl Anderson, Kate Gyllenhaal, Phillip Karg, Andrea Kleine, Paige Martin, Alejandra Martorell, David Neumann, Mark Robison, Sally Silvers, and Cydney Wilkes. Lighting Design: David Fritz Costumes: Elizabeth Hope Clancy. Madcap choreographer Sally Silvers returns to The Kitchen with the premiere of Storming Heaven-an evening-length work that tears through a century of revolutions spanning from the Paris Commune to the Zapatista Rebellion. With live action visuals by the legendary Antonio Martorell, a soundscape by artist/writer Bruce Andrews, and an all-star cast of 10, Storming Heaven re-envisions social changes, zigzaging through the body map of revolution with haunting optimism. Inspired by the provocative 1975 opera by experimental Venetian composer Luigi Nono (In the Sun's Love Provoking Light), the piece spotlights a quartet of women travelling through social upheavals in Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Paris, and Mexico. It combines hyper-activating fractured movements with passion and humor, giving a female perspective on a shattered (and shattering) order-revolution and lace. About the Artist: Artistic director Sally Silvers has an on-going fascination with the poetic as well as the social meanings of movement and offers a no-holds-barred exploration of movement possibilities slanted toward the eccentric, awkward, and unexpected. She has received support from the National Endowment for the Arts, New York Foundation for the Arts, the Jerome Foundation, two Meet the Composer/Choreographer Project grants for collaborations with John Zorn and Bruce Andrews, and a 1998 Guggenheim Fellowship. Last season, she performed in The Joyce Theater's Altogether Different Festival. She also recently co-directed 2 dance films, choreographed 3 musicals for the Sundance Theatre Festival, and performed at The Whitney Museum of Art's program "Impulsive Behavior". The Kitchen is located at 512 west 19th Street (between 9th & 10th Avenues). For tickets call the box office at 212-255-5793 ext. 11 (Hours: Tues-Sat, 2-6pm). ------NetAddressPart-00--=_qV1W6880S0y49194173-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:22:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! Comments: To: Lawrence Upton Hi L! Thanks for your confusion. Maybe you've given me a chance to clarify. The "thing" is visual poetry. That seemed a pretty clear reference to me. No confusion from Bob--at least not yet. As I said, not every visual poem fits the category. But I still think many do. The commingling of painting and poetry simply refers to those canvases that offer words and images, e.g., the wonderful works by Larry Rivers cum Frank O'Hara. The fact that on the page the visual image is drawn or computer constructed doesn't change the basic methodology of combination. As for those artists who have worked in New York City for many, many years on digital language productions, e.g., Kruger--their works routinely appear in galleries and not as collections of poems. These works resemble quite closely visual poetic experiments with structure/size/ shape of letters/words. I was just wondering if those with clout, i.e., those who award prizes, etc., comprehend vp as as something better served by the gallery. Doesn't mean I agree or disagree with them. If they do--if they believe visual poetry is an old "thing" under a different roof--then that might explain their resistence. See? As for "greatness," I think it has been fairly well accepted for decades that the designation refers to a confluence of forces aesthetic, social, historical--a work of art's being in the right place at the right time, expressing a zeitgiest (perhaps accidently) and surviving all efforts to flush it. Certain terms/concepts and their references have been well set (though, of course, provisional, as are all linguistic centers), so perhaps getting bogged down in explanations for every little "thing" doesn't help further the argument. However, I must admit that interrogating everything. every word, every nuance, is really interesting for me. So again, thanks. A Brit, huh? I've been to London several times, performed there, and loved it. Those guys (the Londoners) appreciated my nasty NYC stuff (poetry). One of the best audiences I've ever had. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:33:35 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: more on NPM readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan Raphael read last and Julie Otten & John M. Bennett played rock, scissors, paper or some more inflated decisive order making game and therefore-- Julie Otten read first, reading three long poems, The Death of Andy Gibb, a graphic piece about his stomach exploding, roller skating rings, and learning to give blow jobs to "I Just Want to Be Your Everything." Gabriels Hearse, was next, a piece about a father buying his kid a hearse because the kid has better looking girlfriends and is a real gonowhere. Alyce's Hair, ended the set, "hair the color of a Barbie dipped in baby shit" which "when you wash it, you have to touch it like a cake you test for doneness." Many laughs were given through the reading, the only disappointment being that her reading was cut short due to the ex-slag burning, environment induced sinus infection that hits many Ohioans this exact time of year. John M. Bennett started with _Mailer leaves Ham_ from Pantograph. His reading was a real treat, the way he snarls on crust, or any K sound. These pieces sizzled reading-wise, much giggling was heard and eyes were widened by the end of these. Bennett is an excellent reader, a contortionist with his mouth as he hits all of the phonemes and morphemes notefully from the page score. There was discussion of Bennett's brilliant reading style after and his use of crust as a sexual image despite the sound. _Mailer_ did me in. The third set piece I feel incapable of describing. Comparisons to Schwitters were made, but none to Chuck Stein. As for the fourth, metrically it was broken into lines of eight syllables, but it did not seem to have the impact of the first two "sets" he read from. It's focus was not nearly as consonant based, perhaps this was why. The second set was a reading from the collaboration with Ivan Arguelles (Chac Prostibulario) which includes as many as 12 languages, this was the most technically achieved experimental piece I've heard aloud and attempted to understand at the same instant, here's a stanza: the lig ht fog cut c ut ter minal be gins to list er ate yr nal gas ga zing mas alla del ruedo row dar t I'm e rio "real b lame" the frowning moth madrastra c limbs/tiny flutes//rice chews outside the corn you grave ("mice m ice") nada r en tu zapato (calce tin tin Then we took a break, well needed, the melted ears & minds of the audience headed frontward to see the library of books on display. Dan Raphael blew out any expectations reading a greatest hits selection. Healthy page counts were read from _trees through the road_ , _Molecular Jam_, _isn't how we got here_, and _The Bones Begin to Sing_ as well as some newer work. Raphael is a large guy and swirls his energy around in movements bringing the air in cyclones of words without loss of referent. Pilation, image upon image, in circuitortous movement in how one image impounds another in litigations of unlawful yokings. If you could be any tree what would you be? Raphael knows what textures to forgive and which to incorporate, not to mention the swaying and dance like movements in the words and in the physical of the black sock footed giant. The Cherry Tree at the Top of the Stairs wiped the audience clean. Here is another-- "And Now, a Word from your Atmosphere" Said the conductor up the hoop of funk over whose ground thru whose air of carnality-- "you call this meat RARE?" my third leg a hundred decibel bass like manhole covers with great moves and knees flexing too fast to count we pump, we hump, we leave the ground and come back tomorrow Yo means me that shadow with a car in his chest, american steel, clutchless shifting for efficiency, shiftlessly clutching to no one not in my mirror at night- background, rear view, coming up from the inside, knuckle curve spit, centrifugal curling, Like bach on methedrine playing sonic scattergun each bird shot a chord stainvaying to some feathery oven we rise in, yeast out of, party like an osprey with how many brain-damaged sparrows inside: Yeah they sing and fly even in their sleep-- they never sleep, the sun never goes down, beauty going down where, stain of a fine time, wont ever wash this out, moon cyst, digital paralysis with them numbers swimming like my fingers separate as fish-- surging trout, salmon smelling heat, thumb sturgeon waiting to pounce & hold down: Never let em up for air, air so far away, air not meant to recycle, air on a mission, Don't trust it-- air'd do anything for skin of its own, to play flute with no slobbering lips and spasming lungs to run sour-- All across town air escapes from tires, balls and various prisons, liberating the vacuums of lightbulbs and thermoses, turning up the pressure, taking names and teaching the new rules-- Listen to this, sucker, or next time you breathe nothings going down Many thought it the best reading for some time. I was impressed at how the audience was able to follow his great (i)magic leaps without puzzled looks, trusting they were being lead somewhere important, so sat back, relaxed, enjoyed the ride. We went out to Dow's on High, John had to get up early for the library, took a raincheck. Discussions about publishing, Oregon poets, Ohio poets, meth labs, the environment, mexican drugs, and so on. Read some poems aloud, got engrossed in a play in the new NEOTROPE: All Story, which kept me up, light sleep, breakfast at Jack & Benny's, Raphael read a poem he wrote me, then went off to BGSU---- Monday the 17th, Maj Ragain Be well David Baratier Columbus OH, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:00:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Re: Will work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Anselm, Do you teach workshops to middle-high school inner city kids? Would you like to do a residency at the WWCAC next year? I am hoping to have your mother back for a reading in the upcoming season as well. When Anne Waldman was here in the spring we talked about doing a Naropa in Camden week w/faculty from Naropa and the Poetry Project--about having a week-long residency w/workshops/classes/lectures/symposia/and readings. I am committed to the idea of poetry week with both of you in Camden and would love to host and participate in it. It probably won't occur until the 2001-2 season, and will require a lot of planning anyway, but let me know what you think and we can talk more later about it. I wish I could offer you a building, or an endowment, but perhaps this is a start. I look forward to hearing from you. Best, Alicia Alicia Askenase Literary Program Director Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center 2nd and Cooper Sts. Camden, NJ 08102 856-964-8300 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:03:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: impoverished poetics? Comments: To: Murat Nemet-Nejat Lunch? Irreverence? You said a mouthful! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:20:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: impoverished poetics? Comments: To: Patrick Foley Well, there's no accounting for taste. If you're looking for a more scientific approach, you'll just set yourself up for Derrida. Whatever floats the boat. As for Ramsey's complaint--that little coupling about the geography of "I" says nearly everything we need to hear about the structure of language. A terrific collision of metaphor and metonymy. I like it! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:01:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Foley Subject: eloquence: a ramble Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ron mentioned in the revision thread his lack of interest in texts that are too polished, and I'd like to follow up on that. For me, it has to do with eloquence. I am strongly attracted to work that shows a range from inarticulateness to eloquence. It's one thing I find absolutely compelling about Van Morrison (yet another musical source. sorry). Sometimes it seems to take almost superhuman will just to get the words out, he is so tied up in knots. He has frequently resorted to a sort of stuttering (most notably there's the line about being tongue-tied on"Astral Weeks"). Anyway there's that inarticulateness, which is really powerful, there is so much tension so much energy wrapped so tight, and then there are these supreme moments of release and beauty, almost unimaginable joy. And he gives you that whole range. I think that's one thing I get in jazz too. I love those points in a solo when the musician seems to be digging around looking and looking and then HERE IT IS! Yeah! You get that a lot with Coltrane obviously, and there's a distinction we could make, between the hesitant tongue-tied inarticulate and the prolix rambling inarticulate. Miles Davis packs incredible energy into those hesitant careful spare phrases, and then there's Coltrane just going on & on refusing to give up, I can find it I can find it I have to find it and you can almost feel the need the frustration to --- as Creeley always says Williams said (and he did) --- "get said what must be said". (Although I also want to say I'm not sure playing is all that much like talking.) Monk is another great example of an artist who gives you that energy that's bound up with being inarticulate. Sometimes in Bud Powell's later recordings there is a sort of prolix desperation, because he can't find it, and he goes on, and it's like he knows he can't make the piano do what he wants. It's pretty gutwrenching. Not like his earlier stuff wasn't already tense enough, but he could get there in the early days. Now it's not that I don't like eloquence, I think, I just find it hard to trust. It's what has always made it hard for me to like Milton. I have a sort of gut-level fear of sound overwhelming meaning. But that's not a problem with eloquence per se, it's just the ancient fear of sophistry. And I think it's what I find appealing about the language writers rejection of voice, except that I don't really have a problem, again, with voice per se, but with its potential duplicity. There are voices I love & trust. Even eloquent voices. Even when I recognize that I'm being seduced. Two voices I'm a sucker for: Wittgenstein & Lincoln. Voices I was a sucker for: Nietzsche, Heidegger, Derrida, Yeats, lots of people I can't read at all now, I mean not at all. All of these guys have a sort of eloquence, albeit idiosyncratic. Now it seems to me that the disjunctive paratactic style in poetry is at least this: a resistance to eloquence. I think you can see that particularly in Michael Palmer, because the individual sentences are often noticably elegant, but put together to forestall an accumulation of eloquence. A voice that can't seem to stick to one train of thought is not often perceieved as eloquent, even if sentence by sentence it's quite striking. I've always had this problem reading Emerson, that each sentence is a new aphorism, and that makes for bad paragraph rhythm. (I don't feel bad about selling E short because I've never been able to read enough to do otherwise & don't take my view of him too seriously.) Now here's an odd hook-up with a famous bit of American poetics. That great seductive Voice called Robert Frost memorbaly talked about sentence sounds, and I always found that pretty convincing stuff. only it turns out sentences are not enough. You need more. You need paragraph sounds at least. (Milton.) And it gets almost to saying there are language sounds, but I think not. I think the crucial level is exactly what Wittgenstein said it was, namely the level of language-games, and it is here that disjunctive, paratactic, new-sentence style writing (if I've got this right at all) seems to take hold. The sentences may be fine, but they are thrown together in a way that seems to rip them out of whatever language-game you might ordinarily find them in, and it's remarkable how much that takes out of them, and then of course the reader can imaginatively restore them, and gets some say in how that works, different possibilities, etc. Wittgenstein does this almost constantly, it's his main tactic. (This is what Perelman I think calls re-narrativization or something.) One thing that's particularly appealing about this is that at least it pops the balloon of the fake language-game so many poems play, the no one speaking nowhere to nobody about how interesting whatever is. What's so damned annoying about that is not the oddness of it, but the failure to notice the oddness or the determination to pretend it's all perfectly ordinary. In what universe does anyone hear a tenseless narrtive of how I dunno existential the frost on the grass was this morning when Whoever's Talking went outside with his cup of sanka? It's a pretend language-game, it's fantasy, in I think the same way Wittgenstein thought mainstream philosophy was. Something like that. Which is of course not to say language ought only to be used for ordering milk, but only to say that writing a poem is not the same sort of thing as ordering milk and you're a fool or a liar if you act like it is. There's also the pretence to eloquence that's so prevalent in trade-house poetry, and again it's just a matter of sound, of stirring associations of real eloquence. Wallace Stevens is probably responsible for a lot of this, because he had this odd way of recouping almost any inarticulateness any limitation within a larger eloquence. Those noble inescapable rhythms. Well that's one man's demon, but it needn't be everyone's. (James Wright once said he took a step forward when he realized it was his own facility that he had to overcome. That's alright.) And of course Frost has begat upon us a lot of this sort of thing too, and again with the failure to recognize the tension, the need to at least be eloquently inarticulate so that even when you can't say what you want to (in lots of senses) people will think well of you. That's a demon I'd be happy to live without. I could probably go on --- oh yeah, meant to mention Beckett of course, and now I have. I'm going to stop, but I'd love to know to know if anyone else has any thoughts on eloquence & inarticulateness, further examples, why I've got it all wrong, whatever. Pat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:18:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Abdalhayy@AOL.COM Subject: Poetry Reading at Cabrini College in Rosemont Comments: To: aberrigan@excite.com, abirge@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, agil@erols.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, AMossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, Ayperry@aol.com, Babsulous@aol.com, baratier@megsinet.net, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, bdowns@columbiabooks.com, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, booglit@excite.com, BStrogatz@aol.com, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, chris@bluefly.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, CSchnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ejfugate@yahoo.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, eludwig@philadelphiaweekly.com, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, GasHeart@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, HIGHWIREgallery@aol.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jschwart@thunder.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kyle.conner@mail.tju.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, MARCROB2000@hotmail.com, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mgpiety@drexel.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, Miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, penwaves@mindspring.com, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, SeeALLMUSE@aol.com, sernak@juno.com, SFrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, travmar03@msn.com, TWells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, VMehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DANIEL ABDAL-HAYY MOORE performs his poetry with musical accompaniment (Sufi poetry and Millennial Prognistications) TUESDAY, APRIL 18, 2000 7 PM CABRINI COLLEGE 610 King of Prussia Road Radnor (In the Foyer of the Main Mansion / first large building after you drive in the main driveway, to your left, parking in courtyard) ADMISSION FREE REFRESHMENTS ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:13:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: other than Derrida, meaning: in flight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII other than Derrida, meaning: in flight "If I were optimistic enough on the subject, I would say that I see the journey of my brief existence as a journey in view of determining and naming the place from which I will have had the experience of exteriori- ty. And the anamnesis we were talking about at the outset, this anamnesis would be in view of identifying, of naming it--not effacing the exterior- ity, I don't think it can be effaced--but of naming it, identifying it, and thinking it a little better than I have done so far." - Derrida, There is No _One_ Narcissism, in Points, trans. Kamuf & others. And this in relation to an exteriority beyond exteriority, in relation, or brought up or into question or commentary, of the Judaic; one can see a differend at work within an _interiority_ here, a form of internal exile, but from what, if not a non-exile garnered only by an otherwise unidentified alt- erity. And in this regard, we notice again the hypnotic and its relation to non- or in-transitivity, alterity without an object, always, to the extent a representation, a misrecognition or misrepresentation, but one grounding, shifting the grounds, never called into question. I write of or on (the body of) this, a place I identify, to the extent it remains peripheral to identity, weak or fragile, almost invisible, certainly out of or one with, the imaginary. It is the premise or promise of the world at its horizon, as one pursues "one's" project - in spite of the fact that, deeply random or chaotic, a project remains just that, in pursuit of a goal, in pursuit of meaning as well. Meaning is always in flight; one writes within the gap. And culture is always already liminal, interstiti- al; death, of being and Beings, tending towards foundation, guarantee, contract, strategy. Writing into the void is the semblance of determina- tion, the substrate on the move. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:45:46 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@sirius.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@sirius.com" Subject: Fw: Call for papers on the Caribbean & Harlem Renaissance Comments: cc: "hcsc@cats.ucsc.edu" Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" FYI - from postcolonial listserv - DB CFP: Caribbean Harlem Renaissance Recontextualized (5/15; 9/29-30) I'm proposing a panel for the Contextualizing the Caribbean: New Approaches in an Era of Globalization Conference, University of Miami, Coral Gables, FL, Sept. 29-30, 2000. Deadline for submissions: May 15, 2000 Caribbean Harlem Renaissance Recontextualized intends to explore the various ways in which West Indian writers, intellectuals, political activists, participants in social movements, etc. helped shape the Harlem Renaissance and how the Renaissance assisted in fashioning Caribbean cultural arts, political action, and social identity. Moreover, periodization of the Black Renaissance will enjoy considerable latitude. As William Maxwell argues, the Black Renaissance may be resituated as beginning earlier than the Red Summer of 1919, and it may continue after the Harlem Riot of 1935, encompassing the growth of radical internationalism and anticolonialism. Possible topics for papers may include the following, individually or in any combination: *Claude McKay *Eric Walrond *Joel A. Rogers *Aime Cesaire and negritude *George Padmore and radicalism *W.A. Domingo and African Blood Brotherhood *Marcus Garvey and UNIA *Zora Neale Hurston in the Caribbean *internationalist/Marxist/anti-imperialist politics *New Negro as constructed through/against West Indian identity formations *representations of West Indians in Harlem Renaissance texts *early modes of transnationalism vis-a-vis/vs. African American exceptionalism *transgressive and experimental sexual relations/Queer Renaissance *West Indian women in Harlem Renaissance *Black Renaissance as site for West Indian diaspora *West Indians via Harlem-Paris (Black Montmartre) transatlantic connection *West Indian migration and ethnoscapes *influence of jazz and blues on West Indian popular music *influence of West Indian pop music on jazz and blues To contact me please write to: Gary Holcomb at holcomga@mail.armstrong.edu For contact information on the conference: caribbeanlit.english@miami.edu The internet site which includes information about the CLS, conference happenings, registration and travel is: http://members.xoom.com/CaribLit =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From the Literary Calls for Papers Mailing List CFP@english.upenn.edu Full Information at http://www.english.upenn.edu/CFP/ or write Erika Lin: elin@english.upenn.edu -- Paul Brians, Department of English Washington State University Pullman, WA 99164-5020 brians@wsu.edu http://www.wsu.edu/~brians --- from list postcolonial@lists.village.virginia.edu --- ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:10:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Brooklyn Library Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, I'm reading next week (Wednesday, April 26th)in a series at the Central Brooklyn Public Library at Grand Army Plaza, Brooklyn, NY at 6:30pm & it's free--for info. call 718-230-2100 & see cool attached flyer--open it with your web browser (or Photoshop). Hope to see you there. Wanda Phipps Check out my re-designed and updated homepage MIND HONEY at www.users.interport.net/~wanda A honey pot of new poems!!! And if you've been there already try it again--we're always adding cool new stuff! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:04:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Goethe-Institut Reception Subject: REMINDER - CULTURAL EVENTS GOETHE-INSTITUT SAN FRANCISCO Comments: To: "ANNOUNCE CULTURAL EVENTS @ GOETHE-INSTITUT" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit REMINDER - REMINDER - REMINDER ODC Theater and the Goethe-Institut present SUITE OF MULTIPLE ATTITUDES by Joachim Schloemer and Peter Kowald Performances April 21-23 at 8pm ODC Theater, 3153 17th Street at Shotwell Tickets $ 15. Joachim Schloemer, choreographer, dancer and director of the internationally acclaimed Tanztheater Basel from Switzerland and Peter Kowald, artist, musician and "maybe the best improvising bass player in the world" (Wired Magazine), collaborate on this not to be missed one and only appearance in San Francisco. David Finn, lighting designer for Mikhail Baryshnikov's White Oak Dance Project and a San Francisco resident, co-produces and designs the lighting for this world premiere. Reserve now at 415-863-9834. Good seats are still available. www.odcdance.org/theater www.ticketweb.com ---------- Goethe-Institut San Francisco 530 Bush Street San Francisco, CA 94108 Phone: 415 263-8760 Fax: 415 391-8715 http://www/goethe.de/sanfrancisco ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:24:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** Don't miss novelist JOHN A. WILLIAMS * Thursday April 27th ** Comments: To: newlit@sfsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ** Highly recommended!! ** POETRY CENTER 2000 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents An evening with JOHN A. WILLIAMS introduced by Ishmael Reed Thursday April 27, 7:30 pm, $5 donation @ The Unitarian Center 1187 Franklin (at Geary) San Francisco JOHN A. WILLIAMS is a true master of the contemporary novel. * His justifiably famous early books, including The Man Who Cried I Am--recognized on publication as "the most powerful novel about blacks in America since Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man"--are really only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Williams' accomplishment. * A prolific writer of great versatility, over 40 years he has published a dozen novels, along with works of social history, journalism, essays, and biographies of Richard Wright and (with his son Dennis Williams) Richard Pryor. * His latest novel, Clifford's Blues, is an astounding work of compassionate vision and imagination; his earlier classic Captain Blackman has just been reissued this spring as the premier book in Coffee House Press's Black Arts Movement Series; and his first novel, published variously as One For New York (the author's title of choice) and as The Angry Ones, is part of Norton's "Old School" Series. * Recently retired from his position as Paul Robeson Professor at Rutgers, Mr. Williams lives in Teaneck, New Jersey. * He'll be introduced by his friend and fellow novelist, ISHMAEL REED. * =3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx= =3D THE UNITARIAN CENTER is located at 1187 Franklin St. at the corner of Geary on-street parking opens up at 7:00 pm from downtown SF take the Geary bus to Franklin =3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx=3Dx= =3D This event is supported by Poets & Writers, Inc. A $5 donation is requested-SFSU students and Poetry Center members get in free. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from the National Endowment for the Arts, the California Arts Council, Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, Poets & Writers, Inc., and The Fund for Poetry, as well as by the Dean of the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives ~ San Francisco State Univers= ity 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:22:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Gillian McCain on WriteNet Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This month, poet Gillian McCain talks about invention, inspiration, and the prose poem. To view the page, go to http://www.writenet.org/poetschat/poetschat_gmccain.html lots of fun-filled links and a chance to download gillian reading her poem "Poetry." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:06:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: adjunctial Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey kids, Thought I'd follow up my mini-complaint on the bumpers of academia with a CALL TO ACTION. Any other adjuncts at Calif Comm Colleges out there? If you haven't heard what the California Parttime Faculty Association is up to, you may want to check http://www.cpfa.org. See you on the Capital Steps! I am all giddy/pissy from a labor meeting. Cheers, Elizabeth ps Happy Holidays! ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:57:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: New @ Bridge Street Bernstein, Hejinian, Jarnot, Palmer, Raworth &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, poetics, for your support. Ordering & discount information at the end of the list. 1. _The Adorno Reader_, ed Brian O'Connor, Blackwell, $29.95. 2. _Remnants of Auschwitz: The Witness and the Archive_, Giorgio Agamben, Zone Books, $25. 3. _The Promised Land: Italian Poetry After 1975_, ed Luigi Ballerini, Beppe Cavatora, Elena Coda, and Paul Vangelisti, Sun & Moon, $25.95. 4. _Republics of Reality: 1975-1995_, Charles Bernstein, Sun & Moon, $14.95. Collects 8 previous books-- Parsing, Shade, Poetic Justice, Senses of Responsibility, The Occurence of Tune, Stigma, Resistance, The Absent Father in "Dumbo", plus the previously unpublished section Residual Rubbernecking. ". . . .what seasons / Make of mazement, a drift silently / Irksome to admit arts to failure / Sway amid currency that here weighs, here permits / Love's unbearing. . . . ." 5. _Diminutive Revolutions_, Daniel Bouchard, Subpress, $10. "Repossess the means" 6. _Latin America: From Colonization to Globalization_, Noam Chomsky in conver sation with Heinz Dietrich, Ocean, $12.95. 7. _Bomb_, Clark Coolidge, w/ collages by Keith Waldrop, Granary Books, $12. "We will have a nice bomb now" 8. _Dream Rim Instructions_, Tina Darragh, Drogue, $12. "Martine INSISTS on taking it from the top" 9. _City of Ports_, Marcella Durand, Situations, $6. "Print-stained roundabout of pickle overtones" 10. _Translating the Unspeakable: Poetry and Innovative Necessity_, Kathleen Fraser, U Alabama, $24.95. Essays on many many things including H.D., Loy, Niedecker, Guest, and Olson. 11. _Species_, Michael Friedman, The Figures, $10. "Does the dust _ever_ settle?" 12. _Happily_, Lyn Hejinian, Post-Apollo, $7. "Joy -- a remnant of an original craziness we can hardly remember -- it exists, everything does, without us" 13. _Caws & Causeries: around poetry and poets_, Anselm Hollo, La Alameda Press, $14. Occasional essays, letters, reviews, autobiographical musings. 14. _Selected Poems_, Fanny Howe, U Cal, $15.95. "The twelfth century was when?" 15. _Why Different?_, Luce Irigaray, Semiotext(e), $8. Selected interviews '79- 98. 16. _The Eightfold Path_, Lisa Jarnot, a+bend press, $5. "discrete, unfrivolous, and loved, this form / untouched and shouldered by the night." 17. _Discrepant Engagement: Dissonance, Cross-Culturality, and Experimental Writing_, Nathaniel Mackey, U Alabama, $24.95. On Duncan, Creeley, Olson, Baraka, Brathwaite, Williams, Harris, &&. 18. _20 Forties_, Jackson Mac Low, Zasterle, $10. "Obsolete haphazard realities indicate flesh in the center-of the-memorable-city" 19. _By Herself: Women Reclaim Poetry_, ed Molly McQuade, Graywolf, $16. Essays by Alexander, Bernard, Boland, Brock-Broido, Cornell, Dove, Finch, Graham, Hejinian, Hillman, Jordan, Karr, Kinzie, Lauterbach, Lorde, Macklin, McHugh, Olds, Ostricker, Rich, Rosenstock, Wheeler, Wilner, Wright, & Zairn. 20. _Wall_, Carol Mirakove, Ixnay, $6. "there is no cast of public navel / number one" 21. _A Frame of the Book_, Erin Moure, Sun & Moon, $12.95. "a our mycelium" 22. _Anthology of Modern American Poetry_, ed Cary Nelson, Oxford U Press, $45. Over 750 poems by 161 American poets. Nelson does quite a good job with this impossible task, including substantial selections of the Experimental Modernist, Objectivist, Harlem Renaissance, New American, and other writers we've seen excised from the Norton. 23. _The Promises of Glass_, Michael Palmer, New Directions, $21.95. "My dog does not know me." 24. _Whose Trade Organization?: Corporate Globalization and the Erosion of Democracy, Lori Wallach and Michelle Sforza, Public Citizen, $15. 25. _Bliss to Fill_, Prageeta Sharma, Subpress, $10. "I am in trouble but I dreamt it first." 26. _Tottering State: Selected Early Poems 1963-1983, O Books, $15. Back in print! with this difference: the book writing is included in its entirety in place of Ace. "my up / is mind made" 27. _A Cavalier History of Surrealism_, Raoul Vaneigem, AK Press, $9.95. "As I have tried to show above, Surrealism did have a theory, albeit a latent, fragmentary one, quickly swallowed up by ideology." 28. _Arcana : Musicians on Music_, ed John Zorn, Granary, $24.95. Manifestoes, scores, interviews, notes and critical papers, etc by Chris Brown, Anthony Coleman, Marilyn Crispell, Mark Dresser, Stepehen Drury, Bill Frissell, Fred Frith, George Lewis, Ikue Mori, Larry Ochs, Marc Ribot, Elliott Sharp, David Shea, Frances Marie-Uitti, and many others. 29. _A Test of Poetry_, Louis Zukofsky, Wesleyan, $15.95. Back in print! Some bestsellers: _Dailies_, Tim Davis, $12.50. _Ten to One_, Bob Perelman, $15. _R_, Ron Silliman, Drogue, $10. _Fractured Humorous_, Edwin Torres, $10. _Now It's Jazz: Writings on Kerouac & The Sounds_, Clark Coolidge, $14. _between dog & wolf: Essays on Art & Politics_, David Levi Strauss, $7.99. _poetics@_, ed Joel Kuszai, $18.95. _Cable Factory 20_, Lytle Shaw, $12.95. _The New American Poetry 1945-1960_ ed. Donald Allen, $16.95. Poetics folks receive free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping + 10% discount on orders of more than $30. There are two ways to order. 1. E-mail your order to aerialedge@aol.com with your address & we will bill you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr add, order, & card # & we will send a receipt with the books. We must charge shipping for orders out of the US. Bridge Street Books, 2814 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20007. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:52:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: (re-)publication announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ORANGE ROOM and A SUMMER MAGAZINE Two chapbooks of mine from the Subpoetics self-publish-or-perish project (prop. Juliana Spahr, est. 1998) are up online at http://www1.mightywords.com/find/categories/poetry.asp which you'll note also features downloadable materials from: Peter Gizzi Sheila Murphy Ivan Arguelles Diane di Prima Lucy Grealy Rita Dove and Quincy Troupe Thanks, Jordan Davis ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:52:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: poetry workshop books Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, I am teaching a multi-level (4 classes in one) poetry class (workshop I do mean) again next semester. This semester I used Poetry Writing: Theme and Variation, which is quite good, but I want a change -- I am looking for suggestions of brief collections of poetics essays by a wide range of poets (if such a thing exists!) to use in conjunction with current issues of a couple of mags. Thanks, Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:01:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: Hello this is where I work contact if interested--Prageeta Sharma MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_9b.3eedbb5.263091e9_boundary" --part1_9b.3eedbb5.263091e9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_9b.3eedbb5.263091e9_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: PRAPRA@aol.com Full-name: PRAPRA Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:41:31 EDT Subject: orphic feast To: PRAPRA@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 For Immediate Release: April 12, 2000 The 21st Orphic Feast: Good Taste in Art (Art to be Eaten) BY SUSTENANCE ARTISTS OKA AND FITCH WITH DANIEL BOULUD PRODUCED BY THE ASIA SOCIETY AND ETHAN COHEN FINE ARTS Good taste in Art (Art to be Eaten) is an installation of abstract expressionist paintings and sculptures by Oka and Fitch, in an edible translucent medium. The show has two parts: an event entitled "The 21st Orphic Feast" on May 24th, 2000, and an ongoing exhibition of preserved works in edible media. The feast will feature food prepared by Daniel Boulud and his team. Participants at the 21st Orphic Feast enter the gallery, view the installation, parade a 250 foot noodle to the feast location, where they will choose a work to purchase. All works can either be eaten or "archivally" preserved. We are asking guests to choose how they want to be consumers of art, by purchasing it as material object or by eating it. Guests who choose to digest their art will bring it to one of several "art-to-food transformation stations," (i.e. pots of boiling water_ where it is cooked, seasoned and garnished by Daniel Boulud, thus transformed into cuisine. Oka and Fitch, known for their events that synthesize art and food, have created the Orphic fest as a means to explore art as experience. Orphic Feasts have taken place in Tokyo, Southwest France, under the Manhattan Bridge and at the Asia Society in New York. Proceeds from the 21st Orphic Feast will benefit the programs of the Asia Society. The Asia Society is America's leading institution dedicated to fostering understanding of Asia and communication between Americans and the peoples of Asia and the Pacific. A non-profit, nonpartisan educational institution, the Asia Society presents a wide range of programs including major art exhibitions, performances, media and educational programs. This is the second Orphic Feast to be commissioned by the Asia Society, and represents their continuing commitment to a diverse expression of contemporary art. The feast will take place on May 24th at Ethan Cohen Fine Arts at 37 Walker Street. 7:00 Look at the Paintings 8:00 Parade of the Noodle 8:30 Eat the Paintings. Unconsumed works of art will be on exhibit until sometime in June. For more information: Mimi Oka: 212-358-1776 Claire Fair: 212-327-9235 Doug Fitch: 917-586-7935 Heather Junker: 212-327-9360 --part1_9b.3eedbb5.263091e9_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:01:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: announcements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Next week at the Poetry Project: Monday, April 24 at 8 pm TIMOTHY LIU & MICHAEL SCHARF Timothy Liu's books of poems include _Vox Angelica_, _Burnt Offerings_, and _Say Goodnight_. He is the editor of Word of Mouth: An Anthology of Gay American Poetry forthcoming from Talisman House. Michael Scharf is a contributing editor to Publishers Weekly and Poets & Writers. Last year, he published a chapbook, _Telemachiad_, with his own Harry Tankoos Books. Wednesday, April 26 at 8 pm AMIRI BARAKA & CECIL TAYLOR Amiri Baraka has been at the forefront of the black-arts movement for the last 30 years. His books include _The Fiction of Leroi Jones/Amiri Baraka_, _Blues People_, _Ys, Wise, Why's_, and _Transbluency_. Cecil Taylor is the recipient of a Macarthur Award. An 11-CD box set released from the Berlin festival held in his honor. His many records include _Unit Structures_, _The Great Concert of Cecil Taylor_, and _Historic Concerts: Max Roach and Cecil Taylor). THIS READING WILL TAKE PLACE IN THE SANCTUARY OF ST. MARK'S CHURCH AND IS FOLLOWED BY A RECEPTION IN THE PARISH HALL. Thursday, April 27 at 8 pm EXENE CERVENKA, ELLYN MAYBE, & PATRICIA SMITH Exene Cervenka, vocalist and lyricist for the seminal Los Angeles punk band X, will perform in her first spoken-word performance in 6 years. Ellyn Maybe is the author of _The Cowardice of Amnesia_, _Putting My 2 Cents In_, and _The Ellyn Maybe Coloring Book_. Patricia Smith's latest book, _Africans in America_, a chronicle of the slave trade in this country, is the companion volume to the PBS documentary. THIS READING IS $10, $8 students and seniors, and $5 for members. Friday, April 28 at 8 pm (yes, you read right--8 pm) THE WORLD IN US: LESBIAN AND GAY POETRY A Celebration of the publication of _The World in Us: Lesbian and Gay Poetry of the Next Wave_, with RAFAEL CAMPO, EILEEN MYLES, J.D. MCCLATCHY, JOAN LARKIN, MICHAEL LASSELL, REGIE CABICO, and many others! Saturday, April 29 at 2 pm EDWARD DORN'S GUNSLINGER In honor of the late poet Edward Dorn, EDWARD SANDERS, MAUREEN OWEN, HETTIE JONES, BARBARA BARG, TODD COLBY, FIELDING DAWSON, GILLIAN MCCAIN, SIMON PETTET, AMMIEL ALCALAY, DON BYRD, KRISTIN PREVALLET, VYT BAKAITIS, JOEL LEWIS, LEWIS WARSH, ANSELM BERRIGAN, EDMUND BERRIGAN, MARCELLA DURAND, MITCH HIGHFILL, WENDY KRAMER, and many others read from Dorn's book-length poem. Admission to this event is FREE. We still very much need volunteers for ALL of these events, please please please. We need help setting up chairs, selling books, admissions, cleaning up, and, on Wednesday, with the reception. Call (212) 674-0910 and ask for either Anselm or Marcella if you can spare some time, muscle, and goodwill. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Ave and 10th St in Manhattan. The Poetry Project is wheelchair-accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information. All readings are $7; $4 for students and seniors; and $3 for members, unless otherwise noted. No advance tickets. Admission is at the door. *** Public Service Announcement: THURSDAY, APRIL 27TH from 7-9 pm: Publication Party for two new Granary Books, Cyberspace by Kenward Elmslie and Trevor Winkfield, and Nite Soil for Kenward Elmslie, at Teachers & Writers, 5 Union Sq. West, 7th floor. For more information, go to http://www.granarybooks.com *** "But Dante's hell is heaven. Look at things in another light. Not always the smarting blue glare pressing through the glass. Another light, or darkness. Wherever we'd go to rest. By the simple rivers of our time. Dark cold water slapping long wooden logs jammed 10 yards down in the wierd slime, 6 or 12 of them hold up a pier. Water, wherever we'd rest. And the first sun we see each other in. Long shadows down off the top where we were. Down thru grey morning shrubs and low cries of waked up animals." --Amiri Baraka, "The System of Dante's Hell," _The Fiction of LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka_, Lawrence Hill Books *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:04:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: my goal, by franz kafka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII my goal, by franz kafka my goal, as a 3 kilometer asteroid hurtling towards earth, is to destroy the existing ecosystem by kicking up dust, rock, and whirlwind, darkening the skies, poisoning the air, churning up the water, and polluting the ocean. my goal is to eliminate all trace of life, which is difficult enough; however, i shall at least take care of the larger pieces. there are some furry mammals which are distinguished by a rather playful attitude towards just about everything; i'm certain these shall survive, no matter the quantity of hurled torrents or molten lavas. these mammals shall skip merrily about, but will lose their delicious dinosaur eggs; on the other hand, they'll learn quickly enough to gobble up embryos of flaccid dino-corpses, while chattering incessantly to each other. my goal, however, is to make this as difficult as possible, so that later human beings will look up at the sky and say, oh what a world. they do not realize that i am sentient, as driven as they are, not blind gravity, but by a desire to annihilate. every stone has its mandate, every speck of dust, its destiny. oh what nonsense i can write, "said nikuko, having finished her studious peroration. "The hand of even the most cautious operator was bound to be drawn into the cutter space if it slipped, particularly when, as often happened, the timber was hurled back (by the cutter block) while the operator was pres- sing the article to be planed against the table with one hand and feeding it to the cutter spindle with the other. This lifting and recoiling of the timber could not be anticipated nor prevented as it may have been due to gnarls or knots in the timber, to an insufficietly high cutting-speed, to warped cutters, or to uneven pressure of the operator's hands on the arti- cle." (Kafka, quoted in Max Brod, Franz Kafka, a Biography.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:02:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Cope Subject: Beyond the Page in April Comments: To: rgiraldez@hotmail.com, boureeiv@aol.com, patterso@rohan.sdsu, mcauliffe@prodigy.net, Joe Ross , bmohr@ucsd.edu, globo@ucsd.edu, bmohr@ucsd.edu, djmorrow@ucsd.edu, ctfarmr@aol.com, dmatlin@mail.sdsu.edu, falconline@usa.net, junction@earthlink.net, jrothenb@ucsd.edu, raea100900@aol.com, scope@ucsd.edu, jgranger@ucsd.edu, rdavidson@ucsd.edu, kyergens@ucsd.edu, askomra@ucsd.edu, highfidelity@theglobe.com, darcycarr@hotmail.com, rburkhar@man104-1.UCSD.Edu, yikao@yahoo.com, aarancibia@hotmail.com, rachelsdahlia@hotmail.com, terynmattox@hotmail.com, dwang@wesleyan.edu, karenstromberg@aol.com, threeamtrain@yahoo.com, mozment@uci.edu, hellenlee@ucsd.edu, aeastley@ucsd.edu, tfiore@ucsd.edu, ggoforth@ucsd.edu, segriffi@ucsd.edu, shalvin@ucsd.edu, jimperato@yahoo.com, hjun@ucsd.edu, kathrynmcdonald@mindspring.com, smedirat@ucsd.edu, rmurillo@ucsd.edu, gnunez@ucsd.edu, reinhart@ling.ucsd.edu, crutterj@sdcc3.ucsd.edu, askomra@ucsd.edu, eslavet@ucsd.edu, chong1@ucsd.edu, ywatanab@ucsd.edu, wobrien@popmail.ucsd.edu, dmccannel@ucsd.edu, calacapress@home.com, ajenik@ucsd.edu, Spm44@aol.com, anielsen@popmail.lmu.edu, mperloff@earthlink.net, vvasquez@wso.williams.edu, jack.webb@uniontrib.com, hjaffe@mail.sdsu.edu, ronoffen@yahoo.com, hung.tu@usa.net, eslavet@ucsd.edu, lit-grads@ucsd.edu, urigeller@excite.com, smalina@san.rr.com, reevescomm@earthlink.net, mcarthy@sandiego-online.com, interarts-l@ucsd.edu, lrice@weber.ucsd.ed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" BEYOND THE PAGE continues its monthly series of literary and arts events with the following reading/performance: What: Louis Cabri and Nicole Markotic read from their work. Where: Faultline Theater, 3152 5th Avenue (at Spruce), San Diego. When: Sunday, April 30th, 4PM. ************************* * LOUIS CABRI'S recent poetry has appeared in _Open Letter_ (Toronto), _The Capilano Review_ (Vancouver), _FillingStation_ (Calgary) and _Arras_ (online), and is forthcoming in _W_ (Vancouver) and _dANDelion_ (Calgary). He edits and curates the poets' newsletter and reading/talk series, _PhillyTalks_, and, with Rob Manery, _hole_ chapbooks. Cabri is writing a dissertation on the poetics of political economy at University of Pennsylvania. * NICOLE MARKOTIC is a poet and fiction writer from Calgary, Alberta. She teaches English Literature and Creative Writing at the University of Calgary, co-publishes the chapbook press, disOrientation books, is Poetry Editor for Red Deer College Press, and is one of the editors on the collective of Tessera magazine. Her first book is the prose poetry collection, _Connect the Dots_ (Wolsak & Wynn), her second book is a novel, _Yellow Pages_ (RDC Press), and her most recent book is a collection of poetry, _Minotaurs & Other Alphabets_ (Wolsak & Wynn). ************************** * As always, beer, wine, and refreshments are available. A $3-5 donation is requested (to cover overhead and travel costs) with nobody turned away at the door for lack of funds. * BTP is proud to continue its monthly series of arts-related events with this reading/performance. BTP is an independent literary and arts group dedicated to the promotion of experimental and explorative work in contemporary arts. For more information, call: (619) 273-1338, (619) 298-8761; e-mail: jjross@cts.com, scope@ucsd.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:40:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Unknown Evolution Comments: To: randomART@egroups.com, webartery@egroups.com, dreamtime@egroups.com, nettime-l@bbs.thing.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unknown Evolution I'm starting a collaborative animation of creatures that are made up of separate body-parts from different people. When the project is done, it will basically be an army of evolving animated creatures that will eventually go on my web site (http://net22.com/qazingulaza/tiltingwakest/index.html). I would prefer your own images, or you can alter a found image. Please include your name and email address. Requirements: [format: gif, jpg, bmp] HEAD Dimensions: 1.5" x 1.5" Must include neck. ARM Dimensions: 1" x 4" Must include shoulder (as well as hand). LEG Dimensions: 1" x 5" Must include hip (as well as foot). TORSO Dimensions: 3" x 5" Must include neck, shoulders and pelvis. send to Zon Wakest zippy12@stupidechicken.2ndmail.com -------------please forward this announcement----------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:50:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Loss Glazier at Defib is hypertranscriptified MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Freshly canned Loss Glazier Defibbed especially for finicky readers at http://webartery.com/defib/canned/LossGlazier/index.html Many thanks to Loss and to all who participated. Regards, Jim Andrews ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:11:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: B Watten's Essay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. - T. Shaner I have just published "The Secret History of the Equal Sign: L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Between Discourse and Text" in the journal Poetics Today, and have offprints available. I will send it to you if you will send me $2 to cover the cost of the offprint. If interested, e-mail me at: . The essay discusses the politics and poetics of multiauthored, collaborative experimental texts, and provides a short history of the name and social formation of the Language School. It addresses, as well, the poetics of the Listserve itself, seen as a form of multiauthorship. The abstract appears below. My review essay of Masocriticism, Paul Mann's recent contribution to "wild theory," has also just appeared in the UK journal Textual Practice. Mann's book discusses the destructive relations critics may have to their objects of criticism, and vice versa, and ethical implications of the negativity of the postmodern text. My review takes on the question of the necessity of this negative relationship, and tries to reformulate it from an author's perspective. If you would like to see a xerox of this essay, I'd be happy to send it along. ****** ABSTRACT Avant-gardes, in breaking down the boundaries of the autonomous author in favor of both the work and its immediate reception within its community, frequently employ strategies of "multiple authorship," in which the work is positioned between two or more authors, toward a horizon of collective practice or politics. Any theory of the avant-garde must take into account, not only the poetics of its devices of defamiliarization and their relation to the construction of new meaning, but its stakes in the discursive community defined by means of its literary practices. This essay discusses several examples of avant-garde multiauthorship developed by writers of the Language School: the collective authorship represented by L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E and other literary journals; Legend, a multiauthored experimental poem by five authors; two poems written under the title "Non-Events" by the author and Steve Benson; and Carla Harryman and Lyn Hejinian's collaborative novel The Wide Road. Michel Foucault's concept of "discursive formation" and Julia Kristeva's dialectic of "symbolic" and "semiotic" provide critical terms for an approach to the politics of community enacted in works of the avant-garde. These cultural politics, and their implications for the genres of poetry and poetics, continue in the contemporary form of the poetics Listserve, itself seen as a form of multiauthorship. Barrett Watten Associate Professor Department of English Wayne State University 313-577-3067 (w) http://www.english.wayne.edu/~watten/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:02:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: reading in NYC on April 29? Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends, Anyone know of a reading taking place in NYC on Sat., April 29? If you do, pleas e write to me. Thanks so much. --Al Filreis Univ of Pennsylvania www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:24:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Reading Report: Wieners Takes Harvard, Reduces it to Ashes In-Reply-To: <19.2c4cd81.262bc461@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" jacques this is v moving and reminds me of when brathwaite read here a few years ago he said (apropos the many traumas he suffered in the 1980s, culminating in being robbed at gunpoint in his own apartment), "i was murdered that night; the person you see here reading is not me." gave me chills. this is part of what speaks to me in the poetic. though i could be (and probably have been) accused of reveling in the spectacle of (someone else's) abjection, what can one do, if that is a performative element one feels moved by? is there a "proper" or appropriate critical or analytic witness-response. At 9:35 PM -0400 4/16/00, Jacques Debrot wrote: >Dan, > >Thank you for your beautiful evocation of JW's reading. > >When I try, though, to put my finger on W's affect--for me--it's a somewhat >different feeling than what you suggest. What can one say about W's most >recent work? He's not Artaud lecturing at the Theatre du Vieux. . . . You >can't say that he's on to anything really of any value now, or interest. >Rather, my feeling, watching JW read, is that it's like listening to someone >**who has died**--being in the presence of someone who is dead--so, yes, 1971 >**is** in the present tense. &, although I am an atheist, I did feel as >though I was in the company of ghosts . . . of O'Hara's ghost, and Spicer's . >. . > >--Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:15:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: my goal, by franz kafka In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" oh alan you are one big delight At 6:04 PM -0400 4/20/00, Alan Sondheim wrote: >my goal, by franz kafka > >my goal, as a 3 kilometer asteroid hurtling towards earth, is to destroy >the existing ecosystem by kicking up dust, rock, and whirlwind, darkening >the skies, poisoning the air, churning up the water, and polluting the >ocean. my goal is to eliminate all trace of life, which is difficult >enough; however, i shall at least take care of the larger pieces. there >are some furry mammals which are distinguished by a rather playful >attitude towards just about everything; i'm certain these shall survive, >no matter the quantity of hurled torrents or molten lavas. these mammals >shall skip merrily about, but will lose their delicious dinosaur eggs; on >the other hand, they'll learn quickly enough to gobble up embryos of >flaccid dino-corpses, while chattering incessantly to each other. my goal, >however, is to make this as difficult as possible, so that later human >beings will look up at the sky and say, oh what a world. they do not >realize that i am sentient, as driven as they are, not blind gravity, but >by a desire to annihilate. every stone has its mandate, every speck of >dust, its destiny. oh what nonsense i can write, "said nikuko, having >finished her studious peroration. > >"The hand of even the most cautious operator was bound to be drawn into >the cutter space if it slipped, particularly when, as often happened, the >timber was hurled back (by the cutter block) while the operator was pres- >sing the article to be planed against the table with one hand and feeding >it to the cutter spindle with the other. This lifting and recoiling of the >timber could not be anticipated nor prevented as it may have been due to >gnarls or knots in the timber, to an insufficietly high cutting-speed, to >warped cutters, or to uneven pressure of the operator's hands on the arti- >cle." (Kafka, quoted in Max Brod, Franz Kafka, a Biography.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:31:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: The Secret History of the Equal Sign / review of *Masocriticism* (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable this came to the administrative account. ___________________________________________ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Apr 21, 2000 9:36 AM -0400 From: Barrett Watten To: Poetics List Subject: The Secret History of the Equal Sign / review of *Masocriticism* I have just published "The Secret History of the Equal Sign: L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE Between Discourse and Text" in the journal = Poetics Today, and have offprints available. I will send it to you if you will send me $2 to cover the cost of the offprint. If interested, e-mail me at: . The essay discusses the politics and poetics of multiauthored, collaborative experimental texts, and provides a short history of the name and social formation of the Language School. It addresses, as well, the poetics of the Listserve itself, seen as a form of multiauthorship. The abstract appears below. My review essay of Masocriticism, Paul Mann's recent contribution to "wild theory," has also just appeared in the UK journal Textual Practice. Mann's book discusses the destructive relations critics may have to their objects of criticism, and vice versa, and ethical implications of the negativity = of the postmodern text. My review takes on the question of the necessity of this negative relationship, and tries to reformulate it from an author's perspective. If you would like to see a xerox of this essay, I'd be happy to send it along. ****** ABSTRACT Avant-gardes, in breaking down the boundaries of the autonomous author in favor of both the work and its immediate reception within its community, frequently employ strategies of =93multiple authorship,=94 in which the = work is positioned between two or more authors, toward a horizon of collective practice or politics. Any theory of the avant-garde must take into = account, not only the poetics of its devices of defamiliarization and their = relation to the construction of new meaning, but its stakes in the discursive community defined by means of its literary practices. This essay discusses several examples of avant-garde multiauthorship developed by writers of = the Language School: the collective authorship represented by = L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE and other literary journals; Legend, a multiauthored experimental poem by five authors; two poems written under the title =93Non-Events=94 by the = author and Steve Benson; and Carla Harryman and Lyn Hejinian=92s collaborative = novel The Wide Road. Michel Foucault=92s concept of =93discursive formation=94 = and Julia Kristeva=92s dialectic of =93symbolic=94 and =93semiotic=94 provide = critical terms for an approach to the politics of community enacted in works of the avant-garde. These cultural politics, and their implications for the = genres of poetry and poetics, continue in the contemporary form of the poetics Listserve, itself seen as a form of multiauthorship. Barrett Watten Associate Professor Department of English Wayne State University 313-577-3067 (w) http://www.english.wayne.edu/~watten/index.html ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:33:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Abigail Child Screening and Lecture / Wayne State University (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this came to the administrative account. ___________________________________________ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Apr 21, 2000 9:36 AM -0400 From: Barrett Watten To: Poetics List Subject: Abigail Child Screening and Lecture / Wayne State University ANNOUNCING THE DENNIS TURNER MEMORIAL LECTURE FRIDAY, 21 APRIL 150 GENERAL LECTURES WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY, DETROIT ***** SPEED &SPACE: THE POLITICS OF VISIBILITY PROF. ABIGAIL CHILD FILMMAKER, NEW YORK SCHOOL OF THE MUSEUM OF FINE ARTS, BOSTON 2:30 PM: SCREENING OF "B/SIDE" 3:15 PM: LECTURE AND DISCUSSION ***** The Film Studies Program has invited New York filmmaker Abigail Child to give this year's Turner Lecture. Child's work sustains the formal/poetic preoccupations of American avant-garde cinema, and yet displays a revisionist impulse in its focus on sociohistorical concerns. Her film B/Side uses documentary and avant-garde techniques to address the social relations and living spaces of Puerto Rican communities. As an essay on visibility as well as visuality, B/Side refuses the "blindness" of cultural domination and exclusion, both in the neighborhood and across the North/South cultural divide. In addressing questions of the politics and form of independent cinema, it is significant that Child's lecture and screening comprise the final event in the year-long "Avant-Garde and Cultural Studies" series. Where mass cultural forms, particularly in cinema, have been at the forefront of Cultural Studies, this series reclaims the neglected legacy of the avant-garde and its historical origins in minority social formations. Abigail Child is a Guggenheim Fellow whose work has been widely exhibited in such prestigious venues as the Whitney Museum of American Art Biennial, the London International Film Festival, and the Ann Arbor Film Festival. She is also a noted writer of experimental poetry. She teaches at the School of the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston. ***** Barrett Watten Associate Professor Department of English Wayne State University 313-577-3067 (w) http://www.english.wayne.edu/~watten/index.html ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:13:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: poetry workshop books In-Reply-To: <200004201652.JAA22549@lanshark.lanminds.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 9:52 AM -0700 4/20/00, Elizabeth Treadwell wrote: >Hi all, I am teaching a multi-level (4 classes in one) poetry class >(workshop I do mean) again next semester. This semester I used Poetry >Writing: Theme and Variation, which is quite good, but I want a change -- I >am looking for suggestions of brief collections of poetics essays by a wide >range of poets (if such a thing exists!) to use in conjunction with current >issues of a couple of mags. Thanks, Elizabeth >___________________________________________ >Elizabeth Treadwell >Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine >PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA >http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy what grade levels? my friend betsy and i are about to come out with a book for kids grades 3-6, featuring examples by folks like alan sondheim, susan howe, bernadette mayer, etc., quotes by charles bernstein, etc. lots of fun. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:20:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Macgregor Card Subject: Germ/Issues presents Gizzi/Coolidge, Providence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ** Germ East $ Issues presents ** A Room of Aerial Giftpaper -w/ live "New Courage"-style jazz -and live wall of beverage Poets: Clark COOLIDGE, Michael GIZZI, Hamish CHANDRA opens. FRIDAY, APRIL 21, 7PM Hope St. Gallery & Cafe 810 Hope Street (x-street: Fourth) One mile past Hope High, across from CVS. Anyone want to start a carpool board? Michael Gizzi is author of many secular works of non-fiction, including _Species of Intoxication_, _Interferon_, _No Both_, and _Too Much Johnson_. He was poetry editor for Lingo, and lives in Lenox, MA. Clark Coolidge is author of _Own Face_, _Mine: The One That Enters The Stories_, _At Egypt_ and _Baffling Means_, among others. His presence in anthologies is mandatory. Born in Providence, lives now in Petaluma, CA. Hamish Chandra, after reading at Germ $ Issues, will also publish many books, appear in some key anthologies, move from one coast to the next, change lifestyles, garner praise, and become more globally than regionally based. He edits Clerestory. For more info contact: Macgregor_Card@Brown.edu or Sean_Casey@Brown.edu COMING NEXT: Friday, April 28 7pm: Lisa Lubasch, Brandon Downing, Prageeta Sharma ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 15:07:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Doug Oliver (1937 -- 2000) (FWD from Anselm Hollo) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; types="text/plain,text/html"; boundary="=====================_10488459==_.ALT" --=====================_10488459==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >From: JDHollo@aol.com >Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 13:09:50 EDT >Subject: Doug Oliver PARIS: After a protracted illness, poet Doug Oliver passed away last night, surrounded by his children (from first marriage); his brother; and wife, Alice Notley. Edmund and Anselm Berrigan were still en route to Paris - they are there now. The funeral (cremation) is on Thursday. There will be a memorial meeting at the British Institute in Paris on Thursday evening. There will also be a tribute at the Cambridge (UK) Conference on Contemporary Poetry next weekend. OUR GENERATION (For Steve Carey) I hear the birds of Kenya singing as I write this for Steve Carey who liked recorded bird song as I do, the cassette shrill, a door falling-to on squeaky hinges. Steve: a grating laugh of one who was buff-crested, sulphur chested, lost like me in distant islands of sound in sonophilia for Kenyas and Britains and native American woode, with its double-toned wood thrush. Our own generation as its song. Calls of 'Will be!', 'Will be!", like a Wilbye madrigal, every generation in hope of its many-coloured men and women. And the fish-eagle's magical feet snatch silver fish from gold-breeding lakes at all dawns, as we snatch syllables from standstill moments and lift that sound, a moment isolated, into sunlight. Douglas Oliver 1937 -- 2000 --=====================_10488459==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" >From: JDHollo@aol.com
>Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 13:09:50 EDT
>Subject: Doug Oliver

PARIS: After a protracted illness, poet Doug Oliver passed away last night,
surrounded by his children (from first marriage); his brother; and wife,
Alice Notley.  Edmund and Anselm Berrigan were still en route to Paris - they
are there now.

The funeral (cremation) is on Thursday. There will be a memorial meeting at
the British Institute  in Paris on Thursday evening.  There will also be a
tribute at the Cambridge (UK) Conference on Contemporary Poetry next weekend.

OUR GENERATION (For Steve Carey)

I hear the birds of Kenya singing as I write this
for Steve Carey who liked recorded bird song
as I do, the cassette shrill, a door falling-to
on squeaky hinges.  Steve: a grating laugh
of one who was buff-crested, sulphur chested,
lost like me in distant islands of sound
in sonophilia for Kenyas and Britains and native
American woode, with its double-toned wood thrush.
Our own generation as its song.
Calls of 'Will be!', 'Will be!", like a Wilbye
madrigal, every generation in hope
of its many-coloured men and women.
And the fish-eagle's magical feet snatch silver fish
from gold-breeding lakes at all dawns,
as we snatch syllables from standstill moments
and lift that sound, a moment isolated, into sunlight.

Douglas Oliver
1937 -- 2000
--=====================_10488459==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:00:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick, Well, isn't a lot of criticism which occurs in the List, for instance, a language games, and any new criticism has to break its point of references, assumptions, heros, focus of discourse etc? In your words, it should be "ineloquent, inarticulate." In my word "irreverent"? Inelequence is a disjunction, discontinuity between one view and the language game into which it is projected. Obviously, then, genuinely original poetics thought must be ineloquent, inarticulated, irreverent. When seen from this point of view, isn't Wittgenstein's "language-games," so adulated by most of the present company supportive authority. If language is seen as collections of "language-games," then no trespass is possible. For instance, in the virtual community of this list the phrase "linguistically innovative" routinely goes together with apologies, self-abasements for one's views. These two attitudes can not be contradictory if they are part of the same "language group." But if one kicks the whole concept of "language-groups" over, debunk Wittgenstein's apparently "revolutionary" thought (after all, isn't his "Philosophical Investigation" a reductio absurdum carrying-water extension of British Empiricism in the pursuit of rejecting German meytaphysics, specifically Hegel?..." Am I being inarticulate here or irreverent? The cure to Wittgensteinitis is Walter Benjamin, his elusive, myterious, constantly changing face dialectics. "What's so damned annoying about that is not the oddness of it, but the failure to notice the oddness or the determination to pretend it's all perfectly ordinary. In what universe does anyone hear a tenseless narrtive of how I dunno existential the frost on the grass was this morning when Whoever's Talking went outside with his cup of sanka?" Patrick, Are you frustrated with the language-game itself (of which Wittgenstein's dissatisfaction with main-stream philosophy is one) are you just find poems about Sanka and nature false? Murat Nemet-Nejat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:17:19 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Silliman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ron Silliman Subject: Reminder: DuPlessis & Silliman @ Tredyffrin Library MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rachel Blau DuPlessis & Ron Silliman Poetry at Tredyffrin Public Library Wayne, Pennsylvania Thursday, April 27, 2000 7:30 PM Rachel Blau DuPlessis is a poet and essayist. She is also known as a feminist critic and scholar, with special interest in modern and contemporary poetry. She has published several volumes in her long poem project, Drafts. Drafts 1-38, Toll is forthcoming from Wesleyan University Press in 2001. Her newest critical book is Gender, Races, and Religious Cultures in Modern American Poetry, 1908-1934: Entitled New. She is a Professor of English at Temple University and received Temple University's Creative Achievement Award in 1999. Ron Silliman is the author of 24 books of poetry and criticism, including (R), What, The New Sentence, and Tjanting and the Age of Huts. Paradise won the Poetry Center Book Award for best collection of 1985. He is the recipient of numerous awards, including a Literary Fellowship from the National Endowment for the Arts. He is the only resident of Chester County ever to be a Pew Fellow in the Arts (1998-99). The Tredyffrin Public Library is located at 582 Upper Gulph Rd. Strafford-Wayne, PA 19087-2052 From the Schuylkill, take the 202 South exit at King of Prussia and get off at S. Warner Road (before actually going onto 202). Make a left at Old Eagle School Road and go over the hill. Make another left at Upper Gulph Road and proceed several blocks to the library. The library will be on your left. From Route 30 heading West, make a right onto E. Conestoga Road. At the 3-way intersection make a hard right onto Upper Gulph Road and go slightly more than one block. The library will be on your right. To reach the library by Septa, take the R5 Thorndale/Paoli train and get off at the Strafford Station. Make a right turn out of the parking lot and walk to Homestead Road. Make a left and walk up Homestead to Upper Gulph Road - the Library is just to your right on Upper Gulph. For information call the Tredyffrin Public Library at 610.688.7093 or visit our web site at www.ccls.org. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:27:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: Poetry Reading at Cabrini College in Rosemont In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Pliss, not knowing your fine country so well---where Rosemont is being? Sanks. David ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:28:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Ron mentioned in the revision thread his lack of interest in texts that are > too polished, and I'd like to follow up on that. For me, it has to do with > eloquence. I am strongly attracted to work that shows a range from > inarticulateness to eloquence. It's one thing I find absolutely compelling > about Van Morrison (yet another musical source. sorry). Sometimes it seems > to take almost superhuman will just to get the words out, he is so tied up > in knots. He has frequently resorted to a sort of stuttering (most notably > there's the line about being tongue-tied on"Astral Weeks"). Anyway there's > that inarticulateness, which is really powerful, there is so much tension > so much energy wrapped so tight, and then there are these supreme moments > of release and beauty, almost unimaginable joy. And he gives you that whole > range. > Van the Man is the PERFECT example of the beauty of inarticulateness. Those points where his words get tangled, and his *voice* stages the battle between emotion and articulation... He's someone I often think of when I read or write. A standard. I can't think of many "stuttering" writers--maybe Henri Michaux (perhaps more a psychological stuttering than verbal)? I have a pretty high threshold for eloquence, but like at least an occasional punctuation of ...self-awareness, I think of it as...some indication that the author realizes the absurdity of the ongoing eloquence--as the language races on beautifully, the author finds herself at the perfect place for a little irony or humor. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:43:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Quasha Organization: Station Hill / Barrytown, Ltd. Subject: Post-IMF protest rughts violations in DC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone interested in the apparently serious post-IMF protest human rights violations, extremely abusive handling of men and women arrested, and the immediate serious political prisoner situation in our very own Washington, DC should check out the Mobilization for Global Justice site: http://A16.org/ If even a small part of this is true, it's pretty disturbing. There are numbers to call to add one's voice to the protest, and perhaps contribute to changing how people are being handled now. This site also continues information on serious situations around the globe. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:51:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: a little self promotion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So Cal Listees, This is just to say that I'll be reading at the downtown library in San Diego (on E Street) Sat. the 29th at 2:00 pm as part of the "Poetry Month" promotion. Hope to see anyone. There will be books for sale there, I think. Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:18:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Perez Subject: Re: poetry workshop books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what about that green "Claims for Poetry" book, edited by Donald Hall I think? I don't have it in front of me, but I know it has "The New Sentence" in it, and I'm pretty sure it has Edson's "Self Portrait as a Fat Man: The Care and Feeding of the American Prose Poem." I think I screwed up the title on the second one. I could email the contents list later if you are interested. jamie.p Elizabeth Treadwell wrote: > > Hi all, I am teaching a multi-level (4 classes in one) poetry class > (workshop I do mean) again next semester. This semester I used Poetry > Writing: Theme and Variation, which is quite good, but I want a change -- I > am looking for suggestions of brief collections of poetics essays by a wide > range of poets (if such a thing exists!) to use in conjunction with current > issues of a couple of mags. Thanks, Elizabeth > ___________________________________________ > Elizabeth Treadwell > Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine > PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA > http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:16:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Foley Subject: Re: impoverished poetics? In-Reply-To: <38F935BD.266B209D@wfu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jonathan: You're right of course & I oughtn't generalize so freely. There is some good stuff out there, and it's help in sorting I wanted more than anything else. (And I know that, I followed up on my own post in fact just to make that very point, but that post has never appeared, oh well.) When I wrote that post I was really annoyed. He sounded like Harold Bloom for cryin out loud. "Let's get through the actual poem quickly here so we can get on to the Poet's Ideas." Which brings me to . . . Steve: I don't at all like saying that "Fine Work with Pitch and Copper" is ABOUT poetry. (Well, anyway, I guess you'd say '"about"', which is fine.) I'd be happy to say this: it's about that something from which Williams's poetry and what he describes in that poem both spring, something I'd describe first as a sort of attention Williams "valorizes" -- I don't know that we can or should bring value into it at all, it's just a fact to start with. And I'd emphasize that because we could also see something about obsession. It's lunchtime after all. Williams was certainly driven as a writer, right? In between patients and then another hour or more at the end of the day before going to bed, unable _not_ to write really. So I'd say yeah, he identifies in some sense with the roofer who has to look over the copper not even say between courses but while still chewing. But Williams gives us nothing else and I don't want to push any view of it too hard. He doesn't say whether the roofer is pleased or displeased with the strip he examines, maybe he'd had trouble with it & was still concerned, maybe he thought it was the neatest job he'd done and wanted to revisit his triumph, maybe it was not his work but another's, maybe a youngster & he wanted to see how well the kid was doing, or maybe an older guy, maybe the guy who taught him, and he just wanted to admire the other's work, there are a million possibilities and Williams leaves them all out there. He gives us the bare fact, man eating lunch, on his break, but looking over the work. I sense strongly the connection with Williams own work, his own life, but that doesn't mean this poem is ABOUT poetry. For one thing it cheapens the roofers, makes them stage props. Maybe I'm giving Williams too much credit, but it doesn't sound right to me, that he would drag in these men & their way of life just to talk about himself and his aesthetics. I'm not trying to be PC about this, its just doesn't sit with my sense of Williams. -- And "these men" is not all, since it's an individual he singles out, and that must be important, it's not "roofers" in the abstract, it's this one guy. --- Maybe I'm wrong. And as you can see, I agree with Perelman to this extent, that there is some connection made between poet and roofer. (What a ridiculous sentence that is.) I just don't like the talk of "equating" which it seems to me isn't necessary to make the point, and like I said, it's too Bloomish, it makes it seem like we're done with the poem now that we know what he was trying to say (and why he didn't just write it all out in neat prose instead of indirectly and in poetry to boot we'll never know). So --- we're agreed I think on the "at least partly" as you put it, and you have nicely put "about" in quotations, just as I put a question mark in the subject and really we're all of a mind. I think. But none of this tells me anything I want to know about the poem. That's my problem, there's so little said about how this small machine made of words actually works, how it's put together, and what exactly it does. And I genuinely have no idea how much is possible, how much we can really "explain". (I revisited, since this thread started, Kenner's lovely reading of a Williams poem word-by-word in _The Pound Era_. That's a start anyway.) Pat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:40:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: San Francisco Scene Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello! My wife Katia Kapovich and I will be visiting San Francisco in late May and would like to give a poetry reading there. I would appreciate any pointers as to whom we might contact in this regard. Philip Nikolayev ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:54:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Cunningham Subject: New SPD Web site! In-Reply-To: <38c95db1.295d.0@telusplanet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The new SPD Web site is now launched! [ Sound of champagne bottle shattering. ] http://www.spdbooks.org To celebrate the arrival of e-commerce, SPD is offering 15% OFF ALL WEB SITE ORDERS. This offer is good only until May 15, 2000. To get this discount (which will be added to all member discounts) just paste the following code into the "Comments" field as you make your order: BUFFLIST15 Attention Non-members: SPD's "SINGLE CLICK MEMBERSHIP" will get you additional discounts. ((( . . . and don't forget to check out our STAFF PICKS . . . ))) ****************This offer is transferable******************** Please forward to your friends, workmates, and mother. **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:15:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: Teaching high school kids In-Reply-To: <200004220407.AAA26472@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello all -- This may seem like an absurdly general request, but I've just accepted a job this Summer teaching creative writing poetry to kids in a rural summer school environment (attached to a farm; up in Vermont; yes, I'm a lucky bastard, little to do with skill on my part.) Not with the idea of spawning a massive discussion, but more to get advice on more odd places to look -- how should I go about organizing "workshops"? As far as I know, I get every other evening with a small group (self-selected out of the kids -- I'll be teaching the "extra" class.) I'd like to shake their notions of poetry a little so that they don't come out the other end with the idea that this is some sort of esoteric mode of lesire, somewhere up there with pushpin. And, to give them some tools to take home. So, in any case, I figured there were two ways to get beyond the usual sticking points -- the "craft" way, which goes along the lines of somewhat artificial exercises to do with tone, diction, sound play, etc., and the "cool, excellent" way (what's that?) Further: any suggestions on texts to draw from? I was thinking I'd truck along a jumbled collection, with some non-canonical 20th Century selections as my own tastes roam. Anybody have other suggestions? -- Simon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:22:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: susan howe quote search In-Reply-To: <200004220403.AAA04391@halo.angel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi-- A long time ago on the listserv someone referenced a statement of Susan Howe's in which she said something to the effect of "I don't mind if my work excludes a majority of readers"--something like that. Does anyone have the exact quote and the source of it? Thanks very much, Rebecca Wolff ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 13:09:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: Doug Oliver Comments: To: dball@sophia.smith.edu, berkson@pacbell.net, berlinl@stripe.colorado.edu, bernstei@bway.net, dcmb@metro.net, JBryan9636@aol.com, MCardarelli@boyslatinmd.com, ACodrescu@aol.com, Atticus40@aol.com, creeley@acsu.buffalo.edu, Bowdoin@bellatlantic.net, dorn@stripe.colorado.edu, jkld@earthlink.net, tevans21@hotmail.com, kfraser@sfsu.edu, BLHawkins@aol.com, 103326.2404@compuserve.com, mhohner@erols.com, k.hollo@abdn.ac.uk, turbeville@earthlink.net, Lairdhunt@aol.com, jarnot@pipeline.com, joris@csc.albany.edu, kelly@bard.edu, allan@coffeehousepress.org, levitsk@ibm.net, macnaugt@laplaza.org, gmd@dnai.com, subrosa@speakeasy.org, pomowen@ix.netcom.com, rpadgett@panix.com, perelman@dept.english.upenn.edu, BeaTomBoCo@aol.com, tom.pix@telinco.co.uk, pritchpa@silverplume.iix.com, Randy@soundstrue.com, jrydlun@lungta.naropa.edu, jsafdie@mailnt.ctc.edu, arshile@earthlink.net, edsanders@ulster.net, harris4@idt.net, skankypossum@hotmail.com, AERIALEDGE@aol.com, TNCIvan@aol.com, Xoxcole@cs.com, Ntarn@cs.com, tumakw@muohio.edu, junction@earthlink.net, Laura.Wright@colorado.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PARIS: After a protracted illness, poet Doug Oliver passed away last night, surrounded by his children (from first marriage); his brother; and wife, Alice Notley. Edmund and Anselm Berrigan were still en route to Paris - they are there now. The funeral (cremation) is on Thursday. There will be a memorial meeting at the British Institute in Paris on Thursday evening. There will also be a tribute at the Cambridge (UK) Conference on Contemporary Poetry next weekend. OUR GENERATION (For Steve Carey) I hear the birds of Kenya singing as I write this for Steve Carey who liked recorded bird song as I do, the cassette shrill, a door falling-to on squeaky hinges. Steve: a grating laugh of one who was buff-crested, sulphur chested, lost like me in distant islands of sound in sonophilia for Kenyas and Britains and native American woode, with its double-toned wood thrush. Our own generation as its song. Calls of 'Will be!', 'Will be!", like a Wilbye madrigal, every generation in hope of its many-coloured men and women. And the fish-eagle's magical feet snatch silver fish from gold-breeding lakes at all dawns, as we snatch syllables from standstill moments and lift that sound, a moment isolated, into sunlight. Douglas Oliver 1937 -- 2000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:42:22 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Rachel Levitsky Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Rachel, are you out there? Did you get the e-mail I sent you a couple weeks ago? Please get in touch with me backchannel! Mark DuCharme markducharme@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 11:51:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: query re: Cid Corman MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Can anyone here tell me more about Cid Corman's Dessert Shop? Was it really a Dessert Shop, for example? Just curious. Thanks, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:20:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: Re: poetry workshop books In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Maria -- how can I get a hold of that book when it's out? That sounds fantastic! Arielle **************************************************************************** "I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I describe." -- Ray Johnson > > what grade levels? my friend betsy and i are about to come out with a book > for kids grades 3-6, featuring examples by folks like alan sondheim, susan > howe, bernadette mayer, etc., quotes by charles bernstein, etc. lots of > fun. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:21:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: { brad brace } Subject: room 236 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII essential landmarks on the way from the Bay to the Desert : big wind turbines - sun rising : ostrich farm : field of many little humps/mounds : enormous cattle yard - smell it long before you see it : display of various shoes nailed on top of fence posts (I must remember to bring some along next time to contribute) - easter sunday : stopped at Temecula - beware of reconstituted frontier towns with speakers mounted along the main street playing country-western tunes - very loud people - splashing in the $47! Motel-6 pool - read an interesting article in LA Times about US (Vietnam-war)-lotteries : bought a few gallons of water at Circle-K for the morning drive into the desert - it may be cold at night when camping __ The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> since 1994 <<<< + + + imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace + + + serial ftp://ftp.wco.com/pub/users/bbrace + + + eccentric ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/bb/bbrace + + + imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace + + + continuous ftp://ftp.teleport.com/users/bbrace + + + imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace + + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace News://alt.binaries.pictures.12hr ://a.b.p.fine-art.misc Mailing-list: listserv@netcom.com / subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg Reverse Solidus: http://www.teleport.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net { brad brace } <<<< bbrace@netcom.com >>>> ~finger for pgp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 10:35:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - don't you know all this new language? are you blind to this new language? do you understand this new language? will i have disappeared (lit. be one of the disappeared) before you are born? (for i won't be around to tell you, i won't be able to answer your questions, i won't be able to tell you anything new, you'll have only this from me, you'll have to make of it what you will.) you might find yourself reading this, you might find yourself making of it what you will, you might find yourself questioning, you might find an empty space, you might find yourself questioning, you might think of me, you might ask a question. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 11:00:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: Lower 48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I want to let folks know about a terrific new book out by Joel Dailey, _Lower 48_ (Lavender Ink, 1999, 93 pp.). I try never to miss Joel's all-too-rare readings in New Orleans ... he's a wonderful poet and reader! Anselm Hollo says of Joel's book: "Perfect for both space and time capsules, [Dailey's poems] embody the delirious overamped atmosphere of Y2K US, 'where the rubber fits snugly over the arching banana ... / where the Sunned & the Stunned wait / for excrement to happen.'" Andrei Codrescu: "Joel Dailey uses an extremely sharp facet of the Languge Crystal to operate on a flabby world that has had the nerve to be his. As unsparing as the jagged edge is, it quakes with laughter even as it cuts." And Hank Lazer: "Dailey wanders this world of manipulative consumerism resisting its hold with his blazing stun-guns of outrage, paranoia, passion, and comedy, leaving a laminated America del Norte in his wake." _Lower 48_ is available for $9 from: Lavender Ink 5568 Woodlawn Pl. New Orleans, LA 70124 Here's the title poem: Lower 48 Double barreled exhaust + mental frigidaire = trip out of Coincidence, New Mex Your host Rude Beauteous To avoid undue introspection (luck Police hot button greens Happy B'Day AK-47 (50 Focus on your daily activities Rather than on your symptoms Internalize the octave Sonnet recoil'll land you elsewhere "Blink Area" (transit rapido Tops heavy machinery "Can like a guy be a suffragette?" In this, biased innards Bobs the big reality (world Now Post All Star Break Slump American Troops Space Station Mir The airwall clear brows Probable callee didna talk Close caption road rage Wrongful attire I'm a unit Years of Blink Rehab Tops of the fondle (frontiers ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 16:38:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: poetry wkshop text Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" thanks to all who replied! ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 17:03:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: poetics book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear List, these are the two I'm looking into, fyi. It's a community college class, Maria, with quite a sophisticated body of students, lucky for me. Poetry Writing: Theme and Variation has proved useful (I think I found it due to a recommendation on this list) but is a touch overbearing for me. I think it would work better at the high school level. (Although it's enormously better than Poemcrazy, which a student recommended.) 1. Christopher Beach's An >Anthology of New Poetics (University of Alabama Press, 1998)--paperback, >not too expensive, includes Antin, Armantrout, Bernstein, Damon. >DuPlessis, Hejinian, Howe, Mackey, Perloff, etc..... 2. Onward: Contemporary Poetry & Poetics, edited by Peter Baker; ISBN 0-8204-3032-3 Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:35:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Edward Foster Subject: Douglas Oliver In-Reply-To: <00f701bfa890$900273a0$55e086d4@overgrowngarden> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII One of the great poets of our time and one of the finest people to walk this earth, Douglas Oliver, passed away this past Saturday in Paris, where he had been living for the last few years. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:45:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Edward Foster Subject: Fabulous Russian/American Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Please note especially the Saturday evening reading, which includes a great= er=20 range of celebrated Russian poets than has ever appeared together in a=20 reading in this country. The readers include some of the foremost younger g= ay=20 and women poets working in Russian now. A New Language: Russian and American Poetry Today This coming Friday-Sunday; April 28-30, 2000 stevens institute of technology, hoboken, new jersey sponsored by the dept. of humanities and social sciences and the russian/american cultural exchange program All events except Saturday's dinner and Sunday's reading at the Cornelia=20 Street Cafe are free and open to the public. Saturday's dinner is $7.50.=20 Admission to the Cornelia Street Cafe reading is $6 and includes a=20 complementary drink. Friday, April 28, 2000 3:30-5:00: Registration, 211 Peirce 5:00-7:00: Faculty Club, Howe Center, 2nd floor Buffet dinner and Reception Welcoming Remarks: Dr. Patrick Flanagan Dean of the School of Applied Sciences and Liberal Arts Professor Harold Dorn Director, Department of Humanities and Social Sciences 7:00-8:00: 216 Peirce Jacki Ochs' "Letters Not About Love,"=20 the celebrated film-maker's documentary about Arkadii Dragomoshchenko and Lyn Hejinian 8:00-10:00: 228 Kidde Poetry Reading: The Americans (1) Introductions: Ed Foster Lee Bartlett Charles Borkhuis Cydney Chadwick Joseph Donahue Zhang Er John High Jackson Mac Low Samuel Menashe Simon Pettet Kristin Prevallet Tod Thilleman Maxim D. Shrayer Lewis Warsh Saturday, April 29, 2000 11:00-5:00: Registration, 211 Peirce 12:00-1:30: 318 Kidde Poetry Reading: The Americans (2) Charles Cantalupo Craig Czury Banbara Henning Burt Kimmelman Andrew Levy Joel Lewis Timothy Liu 12:00-1:30: 316 Kidde Session 1 on Russian and American Poets Chair: Bronwyn Maria Adamovich, "Kontinent Magazine: Continuations of the Tradition of=20 Independent Literature" Panayiotis Bosnakis, "New Poetics in Crossing Centuries" Alexander Genis, "Lectures from the East: Ezra Pound" Ed Smith, "Ted Berrigan and the Nunguesser Poets 1979-83" 1:30-3:00: 316 Kidde Session 2 on Russian and American Poets Chair: Vitaly Chernetsky Andrey Gritsman, "Poetry in Intercultural Space ( Celan, Cassian,Brodsky=20 etc.)" Irina Sluzhevsky, "Joseph Brodsky's Metaphysical Poetry of the 1990s" Natalie Smith, "Medea's Legacy: V. Gandel'sman's =E2=80=98Stikhi odnogo tsi= kla" Eugene Ostashevsky, "Dmitry Golynko-Volfson, the Poet of Zooburg." 1:30-3:00: 318 Kidde Poetry Reading: The Russians (1) Brandon Downing (translations) Katia Kapovich Anastasia Koralova Gannady Katsov Irina Mashinski Philip Nikolayev Madlena Rosenblum Victor Sanchuk=20 Marina Temkina Igor Viehnevetsky 3:00-5:00: 216 Kidde Translation in Theory and Practice Chair: Roger Rabbit Shamshad Abdullaev, "Translation" Anastasia Koralova, "Lying to tell the truth" Olga Leontovich, "Russian and American Poetic Diction: Two World Images" Irina Mashinski, "The Art of Subtraction (translation in the light of the= =20 =E2=80=98two cultures')" 3:30-5:00: 318 Kidde Poetry Reading: The Americans (3) Michelle Murphy Martin Nakell Eugene Ostashevsky Stephen Sartarelli Tom Savage Leonard Schwartz Beth Scroggin Ed Smith 4:00-5:30: 320 Kidde "Translated Visions" a panel/reading Chair: Thomas Epstein Arkadii Dragomoshchenko Mikhail N. Epstein John High. 5:00-7:00 Dinner, Howe Center 7:00-10:00: 229 Peirce Poetry Reading: The Russians (2) Introductions: John High and Vadim Mesyats (Poets and translators will be reading from works included in Crossing Centuries: The New Generation in Russian Poetry, edited by John High, Vitaly Chernetsky, Thomas Epstein, Lyn Hejinian, Patrick Henry, Gerald Janecek, and Laura Weeks=20 with Vadim Mesyats and Leonard Schwartz) Shamshad Abdullaev Evgeny Bunimovich (with translators John High and Patrick Henry)=20 Polina Barskova Arkady Dragomoshchenko Vladimir Druk (with translator Patrick Henry)=20 Galina Ermoshina (with translator Michelle Murphy) Elena Fanailova Vladimir Gandelsman Andre Gritsman (with translator Alex Cigale) =20 Julia Kunina Maria Maksimova Vadim Mesyats Yaroslav Mogutin (with translator Vitaly Chernetsky) Alexandra Petrova Aleksandr Ulanov (with translators Michelle Murphy and Thomas Epstein) Dmitry Vodennikov (with translators Tod Thilleman and Ed Foster) Dmitry Volchek (with translator Vitaly Chernetsky) Ivan Zhdanov.(with translators John High and Patrick Henry) Additional translations will be read by the translators listed above and by Charles Borkhuis Charles Cantalupo Joseph Donahue Gerald Janecek Eugene Ostashevsky Leonard Schwartz Lewis Warsh and Lindsay F. Watton Sunday, April 29, 2000 11:30-1:00: 216 Peirce "What does Russian Poetry Do That American Poetry Doesn't?" A round-table discussion in which Russian poets are encouraged to criticize and educate their American peers 2:00-4:30 Reception at John High's and Tod Thilleman's 44 St. John's Place Brooklyn, NY 11217 6:00-8:00 Reading by the poets from Russia Cornelia Street Cafe 29 Cornelia Street (between Bleecker and W. 4th) Manhattan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:10:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Anomalous Parlance 3/4: Lisa Robertson reading/talk & Launch of Raddle Moon 18 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ANOMALOUS PARLANCE 3/4: THE WEATHER BY LISA ROBERTSON Reading: Saturday April 29 8pm Talk: Sunday April 30 2pm / Launch of RADDLE MOON 18 to follow Kootenay School of Writing 201 - 505 Hamilton Street Vancouver BC $5/$3 Lisa Robertson reads from The Weather, her current book-in-progress, and delivers a talk on the ideology of weather, with a launch of Raddle Moon 18 to follow. Lisa Robertson's books and chapbooks include The Apothecary (Tsunami 1991), XEclogue (Tsunami 1993; rev. New Star 1999), The Badge (The Berkeley Horse/Mindware 1994), The Descent (Meow 1996), Debbie: an epic (New Star 1997) and Soft Architecture: A Manifesto (Artspeak/Dazibao 1999). Her recent poetry and criticism appears in American Book Review, Big Allis, Boundary2, Mix, Nest: a magazine of interiors, Raddle Moon, Sulphur, Stand and West Coast Line. "From the office for Soft Architecture" is serialized in Front magazine (December 1999-ongoing). A selection from The Weather is published in W1. Issue 18 of Raddle Moon--"bewilderment, transhumance, ghost"--features writing by Alice Notley, Fanny Howe, Christine Stewart, Lissa Wolsak, Robin Blaser, Barbara Guest, Maeterlinck, and Kevin Killian; edited by Susan Clark. ... The dark drinks the light; we omitted the beginning. The day is longer now; we're fueled by the thoughtless. The dry light has never shone on it; we excerpt effort. The earth goes gyrating ahead; we frighten the strengths. The fading woods seem mourning in the autumn wind; we don't regret error. It is our emotional house. (from "Wednesday," The Weather) Part of what I want to ask of the rhetoric of weather, is what other ideologies may it absorb? May I cause the weather to absorb the wrong ideologies? The issue is not to defamiliarize the language of weather, but to appropriate its naturalizing function to a history, an utterance, which is delusional insofar as it is gendered. A wild dream of parity must have its own weather and that weather will always have as its structure an inexhaustible incommensurability. (from "The Weather: A Report on Sincerity," a talk at SUNY-Buffalo, December 1999) ... THE WEATHER is the third & fourth of six events in the Anomalous Parlance series at KSW, curated by Aaron Vidaver. Upcoming participants in the series include Susan Clark (May 28) and Christine Stewart (June 25). A catalogue including selections from Pen Chants, Busted, The Weather, Tied to a Post, and Taxonomy will be available at the final reading for $6. Kootenay School of Writing 604-688-6001 www.ksw.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:47:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stefani Barber Subject: Fwd:Re:Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference ( Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit not sure why, after waiting a week to see it, my post did not make it to the list. did i send to the wrong place? or was it not deemed relevant? as it's only my 2nd attempt (the first of which also never made it to the list), i have to ask myself what's going on. or maybe the list moderator can tell me? ____________________Forward Header_____________________ Subject: Re:Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part Author: Stefani Barber Date: 4/14/00 4:52 PM indeed, the conference was one of the most important events i've had the pleasure of attending--in its breadth, its complication & in the way it signalled for me both a grounding and a point of departure. grounding--to be in the physical presence of these wonderful writers who have critically informed me (and those who will--had not read the work of Mark McMorris, Lorenzo Thomas, or CS Giscombe) in important ways. departure--the way i was exposed to such possibilities of discourse and practice--whose challenges to me are still making a home for themselves in my thinking. to attempt to articulate--one of the things that was important to me about this conference, like Tisa Bryant's panel at the SF Book Festival (which addressed writers of color)--was in its acknowledgement of the existence, not of a cannon, but of a community of cultural workers who challenge--in disparate yet related ways--the expectations of the "black writer." the function of innovation for that writer, the question of audience & the question of struggle. julie patton mentioned a sense of having "made it to the party" (rough paraphrase)--a feeling of arrival that i also had named, some hours before. what probably resonated with me the most was Harryette Mullen's notion of innovation arising out of struggle. coming out of a sense of discomfort, being positioned between discourses & traditions--an attempt to find/define a language & culture. i can't agree with the idea of Baraka's that was mentioned--that blacks can't help but be innovative--but i think that there is an interesting intersection there in thinking about the black experience and the experience of struggle--and how one comes to witness to that in one's work. from Mark McMorris' presentation: poetry is the long curse of the African in revolt. more later--but i want to mention the sense of history i was overwhelmed with--the feeling of kindred--and to thank Jocelyn, Renee, giovanni, SPT, and all the others--who made this amazing weekend--possible. Stefani ps. Taylor as usual--i appreciate your articulate diligence. ---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes --------------------------- From: Stefani Barber at MORGAN Date: 4/14/00 4:52PM To: "UB Poetics discussion group" at -FABRIK/Internet Subject: Re:Report from SF: Expanding the Repertoire conference (part ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 18:11:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Re: Belladonna! Please come/pass along MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ENJOY BELLADONNA* at Bluestockings Women's Bookstore 172 Allen Street/between Rivington and Stanton on the Lower East Side of Manhattan Contact: (212)777-6028 for more information *** Thursday, May 4 Marilyn Hacker Yvette Christianse kari edwards *** All Readings Begin 7:00 P.M. with 15 minute Open Marilyn Hacker is author of Presentation Piece, Winter Numbers, Love, Death and the Changing of the Seasons, Going Back to the River, Squares and Courtyards (Norton, 2000). She lives in New York and Paris, and directs the M.A. program in English literature and creative writing at the City College of New York. Yvette Christianse is author of Castaway, (Duke U Press, 1999). She is a of one of Australia's highest honors for poetry, The Harri Jones Memorial Prize. kari edwards is the author of post/(pink) (Scarlett Press, 2000), Blood and Tears Anthology of Poems for Matthew Sheppard (Painted Leaves, 1999). Sie has exhibited hir visual work throughout the U.S. Sie is a social worker and a transgender activist. *deadly nightshade, a cardiac and respiratory stimulant, having purplish-red flowers and black berries ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:34:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Message delays MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What follows for today are some messages strangely delayed in reaching the list account(s); though I've only just rec'd them over the weekend, they are dated as far back as ten days ago. I can't offer any technical explanation and won't try to do so. If you've been missing a post, please review the list archive before contacting me or re-sending. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:34:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: APOETICS / Lucia / Austin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2000 4:10 PM -0400 From: William James Austin Well, of course. Does anyone really think that the mainstream is something completely other. The mainstream is nothing else but a record of experimental work, institutionalized. What have we been saying about inter-textuality for the last 20 years or so? The mainstream is not supposed to be cutting edge, so it's sort of silly to attack it on that basis. I don't want it to be cutting edge. Where would that leave us? The concept of "experimental" would be decommisioned. The mainstream is, at least in part, a museum. And what painter, or sculptor, in his heart of hearts, doesn't want to end up in a museum, and change that museum with his/her presence. Since Mac Low and Bernstein have been so thoroughly accepted by the mainstream, I'd say that avant garde word since the 1960s is walking in the front door. ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:35:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! / Grumman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 19:24:49 -0400 From: Bob Grumman Aha, now I remember who you are, Wm. Jim--I'm so out of it I didn't connect this new guy to the Buffalo group with the guy I corresponded briefly with some months back. Well, now you and I can start another clique here--or could if it wasn't that I'm going every which way but sane, so don't have time. I have time for the following, though: "Why not more attention to visual poetry?" (snip) > Could it be that those with clout have some difficulty > distinguishing between visual poetry and collage paintings? I think that may be part of it. A bigger part, for me, is that most English professors are what I call segreceptuals--which means they have great trouble appreciating art the mixes expressive modalities, as isual poetry does. There is also the opposition of poets and poetry critics who have won an acadominance that they understandably don't want to give up. Plus the usual resistance of mediocrities to anything new. Or, in this case, new to them. One other reason is that too many people associate visual poetry with simple-minded visual onomatopoiea--e.g., the word "circle" printed with its letters making a circle. I'm sure there are other good reasons. > I know not every vp fits the mold, but many do appear as just the > sort of sketches the great collagists (?) made before they created the > fully realized canvas. Do these things belong in poetry books, > or in galleries? It would depend on the work. If you'll go to my poetry site, address below (I hope), and can track down my taxonomy, which I describe in an essay there, you will find that there are all kinds of artworks that combine text and graphics without, in my view, being visual poetry. The key is whether their visual element significantly increases the expressive value of their textual element, or something like that. For some collages using words and pictures, this is the case. If so, they are visual poems and poetry books are the most appropriate place for them. Then there are collages in which genuine poems share a page with visual images and are enhanced by them, but which, for me, are simply sophisticatedly illustrated poems, or sophisticatedly captioned illumages ("illumage" being my word for work of visual art). It's a toss-up as to whether they should be in books of poetry or in galleries. There are also collages with texts that are not poems but which enhance the visual art that share the page with them. That is what Picasso and the other early collagists produced. They are properly a form of gallery art--though there's no reason they shouldn't be in books, too. I think most of the best visual poets of the present create works that are quite different from collages, Guy R. Beining being one great exception. > The commingling of poetry and painting is an old > trick. Perhaps what we want is for the po-biz to accept the thing > the way the painting biz has. Would that make it new? Or just an > old thing moved to a different building? An old thing moved to a different building would be new, I think. But poets like Beining are making new kinds of collage. And being new isn't that important, anywaze. Being good is what counts. > As you know, I'm in the > early stages of a book on Kosti (because I like his work). Much > space devoted to his visual poetry (much of which I enjoy). I'm > not anti vp. I'm just wondering. And I'm also wondering who wrote > the Book of Love! But that's another story. Good luck with the Kostelanetz book. We need one. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:35:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Review of Cadiot's ART POETIC' / Messerli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "Douglas Messerli" Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:08:09 -0700 This review appeared in the Spring 2000 issue of Rain Taxi, p. 52. ART POETIC' Olivier Cadiot translated by Cole Swensen Green Integer ($12.95) "The pages of a book," according to the French poet Edmond Jabes, "are = doors. Words go through them, driven by their impatience to regroup." = The book in this sense does not contain anything (story, meaning); = rather, in the turning of its pages, it constitutes a performance = whereby the linguistic field acts in response to the magnetic threshold = of a certain impatience inherent in language. Perhaps this impatience is = manifest in our desire to put terms on the interminable (i.e., create = meaning), or perhaps, more fundamentally, it constitutes the inertial = regenerative force of the language toward composition. For Olivier = Cadiot, the potential of this impatience--its charge, its = ambiguity--provides the gravity on which the art of poetry spins. = Cadiot's Art Poetic', translated from the French by Cole Swensen, = exemplifies Jabes's tenet: driven by language, its pages enliven the = cognitive spectrum in which grammatical constructs present themselves. = Both a poem and a poetics, the text traces the bandwidth of the language = act via a series of systematic experiments which emulate a = mathematician's iterative attempts to map out a territory that comes = closer and closer to a "real" description of that space. The area under = the curve vibrates with what Chomsky called the "deep structure" of the = syntactical surface; Art Poetic' intentionally foregoes narrative and = exposition in order to animate the grammatical field--to allow it to = refer to its own making as its projections are reoriented, reiterated, = and resected again and again--and, as such, to provide a view onto the = workings of that deep structure. The book's 15 chapters each enact a = singular innovation that pivots on varying a selected set of elements in = the grammatical construction--testing the expectations of that = construction, the ambiguities. To expose the composition--words, = punctuation, syntax, graphics--as purely as possible to its own inherent = impatience: this, the effect of Cadiot's poetic work. --Kim Fortier This book is available for a 20% discount if your mention this review. Order directly from djmess@sunmoon.com Please also visit our website www.greeninteger.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:47:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Tankoos Books Subject: Angry Penguins Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A N G R Y P E N G U I N S a new book by Brian Kim Stefans is now available from Harry Tankoos Books via Small Press Distribution. $9 (perfect bound, b&w cover) 72p ISBN 0-9678031-1-X Angry Penguins is Stefans's third full-length collection, and includes The Overtures of Holograms: Poems by Roger Pellett ("Punks of Diderot/ are smoking by the John/ door, aware of their historical deterrence;") and Dawns of the B-Machine. The latter section includes "This is Orson Welles" ("the abundance, the dancing, the cowardices, indices/ of a carnival described within its profusion"), "3rd Thoughts on the Tarmac," and "The Straw Camel," a long poem ("Progress 'montrous',...That's not final, by the way"). Also available: G U L F Gulf is Stefans's second full-length book, published by Object/Poetscoop in 1998, and now reprinted for Harry Tankoos Books (also available from the press via SPD). In the great New York samizdat tradition, Gulf takes the dramas, drones and abysses of the letter-sized page to the max. $7 (8.5 x 11) 104p ISBN 0-9678031-2-8 Includes "Organelles, a script," "Terms of the Anglo-Saxon Ritual," the long, serial "Gulf" and 29 other lyrics and lysergencies. Brian Kim Stefans is the author of Free Space Comix (Roof, 1998) and the editor of Arras Online. Please contact harrytankoosbooks@att.net for more information (replies after May 8). Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:24:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Will work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:43 PM 4/14/00 -0400, you wrote: >If anyone out there has an endowment and a couple large buildings (maybe >just one to start), and is interested in starting a school with a heavy >focus on poetry and the arts, please contact me. I > >Anselm > Dear Anselm -- I replyed to you but no answer. I may be on the wrong end of joke. I am not sure. I have tapped on the shoulder of several Buffalo area contacts and this is a possibility :) I have an accounting background and am very good at finance & fund raising; plus I adore Pound, so fear not. If this is a gag please let me know. If not let's talk. Ever & Affectionatley, Geoffrey Gatza ***************** Check out Step Online now only at www.daemen.edu/step now serving free-range veal ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:48:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Poetry Reading / Murat Nemet-Nejat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Apr 21, 2000 2:10 PM +0000 From: MuratNN@aol.com To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: Poetry Reading I am reading at The Brooklyn Public Library on April 26, with Wanda Phipps and Dennis Nurske: Brooklyn Public Library Central Library Novella Cafe, 3rd Floor Grand Army Plaza Wednesday, April 26, 6:30 P.M. Murat Nemet-Nejat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:16:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Poets House (NYC): May Events Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Poetics Consciousness: Frames, Identities, Necessities with Charles Bernstein and Douglas Messerli Tuesday, May 2. 7pm What are the possibilities or impossibilities for poetics at the present moment? Charles Bernstein and Douglas Messerli discuss the national, international, and imagined contexts within which poets write, and the most urgent issues facing poetry and poetry publishing. Celebrating Sulfur: The Life and Death of a Literary Magazine with Clayton Eshleman, Allen S. Weiss, and Marjorie Welish Tuesday, May 9. 7pm Since 1981, Sulfur has been a unique model of mutli-focused literary magazine, embracing international modernism and its various legacies. Sulfur will put out its final issue in the Spring of 2000. Poets House 72 Spring Street, 2nd Floor New York $7 Members Free ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:20:06 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > . . . when Whoever's Talking went outside with his cup of sanka?" I couldn't care less about Benjamin and Wittgenstein, but this idea of someone's talking going outside with his cup his cup of sanka is neat. Yeah, I know I misread it, but it was an easy misread to make and I like it. --Bob G. > > Patrick, > > Are you frustrated with the language-game itself (of which Wittgenstein's > dissatisfaction with main-stream philosophy is one) are you just find poems > about Sanka and nature false? > > Murat Nemet-Nejat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:38:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: poetry workshop books In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The book is called The Secret Life of Words, by Betsy Franco and Maria Damon, and will be available from Teaching Resource Center in Berkeley CA. thanks for your interest! At 5:20 PM -0400 4/22/00, Arielle C. Greenberg wrote: >Maria -- how can I get a hold of that book when it's out? That sounds >fantastic! > >Arielle > >**************************************************************************** >"I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but >time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I >describe." -- Ray Johnson > >> >> what grade levels? my friend betsy and i are about to come out with a book >> for kids grades 3-6, featuring examples by folks like alan sondheim, susan >> howe, bernadette mayer, etc., quotes by charles bernstein, etc. lots of >> fun. >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:34:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble In-Reply-To: <000d01bfabbf$73926360$d8cd56d1@na.nai.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:28 AM -0700 4/21/00, Karen Kelley wrote: >Van the Man is the PERFECT example of the beauty of inarticulateness. Those >points where his words get tangled, and his *voice* stages the battle >between emotion and articulation... He's someone I often think of when I >read or write. A standard. I can't think of many "stuttering" writers--maybe >Henri Michaux (perhaps more a psychological stuttering than verbal)? > >I have a pretty high threshold for eloquence, but like at least an >occasional punctuation of ...self-awareness, I think of it as...some >indication that the author realizes the absurdity of the ongoing >eloquence--as the language races on beautifully, the author finds herself at >the perfect place for a little irony or humor. i like both polish and roughness, esp in extremes. for polish that also thematizes the problems of over-aestheticization, Hawthorne's short stories can't be beat. others have mentioned good examples of stuttering texts --this --the cracking voice, the rough-timbred tone --have a worthy place in both Jewish (cantorial) and African American (blues, Hendrix's distortion, etc) aestetic tradition. i also like clumsiness, as in "doggerel," or in some of C Bernstein's poetry and prose, where it's deliberate and used for humorous and polemical ends. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:20:06 +0000 Reply-To: archambeau@lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: Re: Teaching high school kids MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Simon, You might try a variant of the "craft" way of instruction, and have your students write imitations. You trot in with a you like and know something about and find interesting, explain the engineering of the thing to them, and give them a fairly explicit assignment in which you ask them to do something along the same lines. This comes off feeling slightly less 'artificial' than most "craft" excercises, and raises the bar a bit. I mean, none of your students is going to write like the mature Wallace Stevens, but if you show them "Thirteen Ways" and explain something about how it works, they'll have more interesting models than one another. An example: show them "Journey of the Magi," point out the interesting bits about the narrator and the narratee, the intertextuality, the foreshadowing of he cruxifiction, etc. If you do it well, they'll ooh and ahh at all the things they wouldn't have seen on their own. Then give them an assignment where they do several of the things Eliot did (you should probably be specific about this). At some point it is likely that a student will bitch about you suppressing his originality. You can tell him that immature poets emulate, mature poets steal, and no one has been original since Homer. Some pieces I've had college freshman work with: Gary Snyder, parts of "Myths and Texts" Stein, "Picasso" (call it a prose poem) Eliot, "Journey of the Magi" Stevens, "Study of Two Pears" Robert Kroetsch, "Sketches of a Lemon" Charles Simic, "My Shoes" One could get wilder or play it even safer, of course. Good luck -- high school level teaching is (I'm told) a tough gig. Robert Archambeau ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:30:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Re: "political" pomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Political Poem Some think Castro is a yahoo and some think his power comes from his mistakes. It's a rancorous debate that will either influence major officials or create throngs of pre-owned opinions, both of which are a bit uncomfortable for our bodies--so ignorant yet so wrapped up--and for agents embarrassed by the price of intelligence. But, hell, bigger cost is the thing. It's hotter than satellites and educational programs, and it's going all national. Isn't increase measured by having babies, giving thanks? What else is there to look for? We are here cooking and reading and napping. It's only the representatives who are acting like buggy software or shoppers cut off from caffeine. I want to call them jackasses and lazy bastards. But... Against this backdrop, labor looks like a ditto. The traffic is directed in whole or in part into time and space, it's harried partners. It will crash deadlines and promise July. Next year, double it. Thousands will get hacked, their own private silos of porn bugged, and the firewalls will jump up faster than you can bomb Baghdad. But, still, there is some value in trade, and in suffering, which is a kind of daily justice. Those of us in the plains want the mountains and the sea, while those on the coasts want nothing other than their salt-cured selves. We all want money. The implication is that we will probably all kill each other and everything around us. It's not getting any cooler. It's grown past the point of toys designed to school terrorists. Not much rises above the system of looking inside. Everyone's head is their own new government, and getting out of bed makes me feel like my stomach is going to pop open and make me reluctant mother-, absentee father-, disowned brother- and weeping sister-in-flight to my one-and-only country gone postal. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:45:54 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh Lord it wasn't meant as nastiness. I was just messing around with words and meaning you no harm or insult at all. Why would I? Your finding it funny was my intention, though it wasn't all that funny, and the nastiness is in your perception and not in my intention As to my incorrectness, it's a long time ago but I am sure you are right. All the best Lawrence ----- Original Message ----- From: "William James Austin" To: ; "Lawrence Upton" Sent: 24 April 2000 21:18 Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! | Well, that last bit of nastiness was uncalled for, but still pretty | funny. Sorry if my appreciation for that marvelous London audience | was improperly put. So I'll say it again. That audience made me | feel welcome, and it meant quite a lot to me. As we know, the world | is filled with little snots. By the way, you claim that I did not | say "then" that not every vp fits the mold. You're incorrect. There | it is, in my original post, line seven. | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:19:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ramez Qureshi Subject: query: Stein's long jump MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone tell me who jested that Stein set the equivalent of a long jump record with _Tender Buttons_? Much Thanks, Ramez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 19:25:57 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Patrick Foley wrote: >I am strongly attracted to work that shows a range from >inarticulateness to eloquence. Me too--in fact, I'm attracted to works that _use_ inarticulateness to formulate a kind of anti-eloquence that is itself of course very eloquent. Which is I think what you're saying. The Van Morrison analogy is very good (another example would be "Listen to the Lion" on _St. Dominick's Preview_, with its scary fits of growling and muttering that are so beautiful also). Davis, Monk, Coltrane: definitely. Also Erik Satie, Robert Johnson sometimes, early Cramps (esp. their cover of "Human Fly"), and Jonathan Richman (who really extends the stutter/slur into an entire range of expression in itself). I'm very interested in this because I'm preparing a paper on inarticulateness in 2nd-gen (mostly) New York School poets for the NPF conference on American Poetry in the 60s this June in Maine. I'm looking, for instance, at Ron Padgett's "smuh" in _Great Balls of Fire_, or more generally the aphasic aspects of Brainard's, Padgett's, Elmslie's comix, etc. >Now it's not that I don't like eloquence, I think, I just find it >hard to trust. It's what has always made it hard for me to like >Milton. I have a sort of gut-level fear of sound overwhelming >meaning. But that's not a problem with eloquence per se, it's just >the ancient fear of sophistry. And I think it's what I find >appealing about the language writers rejection of voice, except >that I don't really have a problem, again, with voice per se, >but with its potential duplicity. But Milton is all _about_ that fear of sophistry/duplicity! Just look at the council of devils in Book II of _PL_, or Satan's overtures to Eve, or Eve's to Adam, and try to look at God's speeches to the Son or the angels, or Raphael's to Adam, without seeing all kinds of disturbing implications. Not that Milton necessarily intended it that way, but that's partly the point: there were aspects of his work that he _wasn't_ totally in control of, and in trusting them to take him where he thought he wanted to go, he created some of the most powerful poetry ever. (Sorry, but I just had to jump in to defend old Uncle Milty.) As for the language writers, it seems like sometimes you face the problem of duplicity from another angle: there's sometimes the gnawing suspicion that the poet is using disjunctiveness to mask the absence of actual poetry, that you're sometimes getting pretend-poetry produced by a throw of the dice, but which still claims the status of political or epistemological critique, or something equally important. (Please note the repeated use of "sometimes.") >Now it seems to me that the disjunctive paratactic style in poetry >is at least this: a resistance to eloquence. I think you can see that >particularly in Michael Palmer, because the individual sentences are >often noticably elegant, but put together to forestall an accumulation >of eloquence. Yes--he crams eloquent particles into huh?-shaped clusters, resulting in an ineloquence that can be described in terms of the anti-eloquence I mentioned above. >A voice that can't seem to stick to one train of thought >is not often perceieved as eloquent, even if sentence by sentence it's > >quite striking. But what about Virginia Woolf, for instance, who combines that wandering-attention effect with a smoothy rendered narrative continuity somehow, or John Ashbery, who does something very similar? With those two, you're definitely talking about an simultaneously eloquent and digressive effect that goes beyond the level of the individual sentence. >...it turns out sentences [as per Frost] are not enough. You need >more. You need paragraph sounds at least (Milton). Here, Gertrude Stein's contention that sentences are not emotional, but paragraphs are, seems relevant. Of course, she responded to this by fitting whole paragraphs into single sentences, as Silliman points out in _The New Sentence_, e.g., "A dog which you have never had has sighed." I think it's interesting to trace the logic of how this counts as a paragraph in terms of the eloquent/ineloquent dichotomy we're testing here: does the condensation result in an increase of eloquence? Does the absurdity of the claim that it _is_ a paragraph figure in this increase? Put another way, could eloquence be contextual (or extra-textual) rather than something actually physically glowing there in the text itself? >And it gets almost to saying there are language sounds, but I think >not. I think the crucial level is exactly what Wittgenstein said it >was, namely the level of language-games, and it is here that >disjunctive, paratactic, new-sentence style writing ... seems >to take hold. The sentences may be fine, but they are >thrown together in a way that seems to rip them out of whatever >language-game you might ordinarily find them in, and it's remarkable >how much that takes out of them, and then of course the reader can >imaginatively restore them, and gets some say in how that works, >different possibilities, etc.... One thing that's particularly >appealing about this is that at least it pops the balloon of the fake > >language-game so many poems play, the no one speaking nowhere to >nobody about how interesting whatever is. What's so damned annoying >about that is not the oddness of it, but the failure to notice the >oddness or the determination to pretend it's all perfectly ordinary. >In what universe does anyone hear a tenseless narrative of how I dunno >existential the frost on the grass was this morning when Whoever's >Talking went outside with his cup of sanka? But mightn't there in fact be language-sounds? Isn't language poetry, even, a kind of manifestation of a particular language-sound, even if that sound is founded to some extent on a wrenching of other language-sounds from their particular language games in the way you say? And as such, doesn't it depend on a fiction of communication every bit as artificial as the frost-on-the-grass & cup-of-sanka kind of poetry? Your point is well taken, however, that depending on the context of whatever genre or form you're talking about, the fiction of the "tenseless narrative" can be extremely annoying. In a good novel, for instance, I might have no problem with the fiction of the omniscient narrator telling me what's going through the heads of the characters, or even espousing his/her/its philosophy of the world, because I'm always aware that the convention allowing such a narrator is being consciously wielded in a way that leads to interesting fictional speculations (again, if its a _good_ novel). I have a similar reaction to yours, however, whenever I see a production of Shakespeare in which actors, often brilliant actors, try to make the iambic pentameter dialogue or monologue sound as though it's just occurring to the character as he/she speaks, inflecting it with casual, naturalistic vocal rhythms, etc. And of course, this describes _most_ productions of Shakespeare. At the Globe or Swan, these speeches would bave been much more blatantly just that: _speeches_, written and spoken in the awareness of being apprehended as speeches in some way commenting on or enhancing the action of the play, but not pretending to be representations of actual spontaneous words coming out of the mouths of their speakers the moment they're formed. The fiction of the plot and the admitted speechiness of the speeches exist side by side, but only overlap in limited ways. And that's why live Shakespeare invariably sucks in the present day. Anyways, that's how I see it. >There's also the pretence to eloquence that's so prevalent in trade- >house poetry, and again it's just a matter of sound, of stirring >associations of real eloquence. OK, but what is "real" eloquence? Isn't all eloquence, by definition, sounds stirred into associations with certain moods and feelings, independently of the content? I mean, I think I know and agree with what you're saying about tradehouse poetry, but I don't want to foresake the usefulness--the _value_ of "sound, of stirring associations of ... eloquence" in the case of really interesting writing, and I think it needs to be carefully worked out how the two cases are different. Especially interesting to me is how writing can use the effect of a "pretence to eloquence" self-consciously to undermine the kinds of bad eloquence we hate. And I don't just mean irony here, at least I don't think I do. I'm thinking of the tone, for example, in Kenneth Koch's writing, where faux loftiness manages in the end to redeeem itself as "real" loftiness. Part of what I'm trying to work out for myself these days is how it makes that transition. --Kasey ......................................... """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" K. SILEM MOHAMMAD Santa Cruz, CA immerito@hotmail.com http://communities.msncom/KSilemMohammad ......................................... """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 02:23:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble In-Reply-To: <50.4551f8e.2631e347@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (after all, isn't his "Philosophical Investigation" a >reductio absurdum carrying-water extension of British Empiricism in the >pursuit of rejecting German meytaphysics, specifically Hegel?... To be human is to be a conversation ___________________________________ i'm doin ok [only the top line is Heidegger not Hegel, but to us British Empiricists, same difference......and the bottom line is Bromige not Wittgenstein] (poem from _The Harbormaster of Hong Kong_ ) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:53:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Reading in Brooklyn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey, Here's a reminder about my reading tomorrow evening (Wednesday, April 26th) accompanied by musicians Joel Schlemowitz & Hiroshi Noguchi at the Central Brooklyn Public Library at Grand Army Plaza, Brooklyn, NY at 6:30pm with poets Dennis Nurkse & Murat Nemat-Nejat & it's free--for info. call 718-230-2100. Hope to see you there. Wanda Phipps Check out my re-designed and updated homepage MIND HONEY at www.users.interport.net/~wanda A honey pot of new poems!!! And if you've been there already try it again--we're always adding cool new stuff! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:34:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Basinski Subject: first intensity #14 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- > *** ANNOUNCING the publication of FIRST INTENSITY #14, spring 2000 issue. 154 > pages, perfect-bound, packed with a powerful & diverse range of new writing, > and a snazzy cover collage created especially for F.I. by Kenward Elmslie. > > ** POETRY by Gerrit Lansing, Kenward Elmslie, Martine Bellen, Duncan > McNaughton, Judith Roitman, Cathleen Shattuck, Alan Gilbert, Barry Gifford, > Kenneth Irby, Cheryl Burket, Leonard Schwartz, Joe Napora, Brent Hendricks, > Lawrence Fixel; introducing Laura Nichols. > > ** An except from Stanley Lombardo's brand new translation of the "Odyssey," > just out from Hackett Publishing. > > ** PROSE & FICTIONS by: John Yau, Alison Bundy, Elizabeth MacKiernan, Karl > Roeseler, Noam Mor, Ben Miller, George Kalarmaras (a fictionalized interview > with Alfonsina Storni, conducted by Pablo Neruda); introducing Cyrus Console. > > ** A farewell to the late Ed Dorn by John Moritz. > > ** NEW to F.I.: BOOK REVIEWS & COMMENTARY * Robert Kelly on Enslin, > Sikelianos, Siegel * Forrest Gander on Hahn * Kristin Prevallet on Gander * > Dale Smith on Di Prima & Lombardo's trans. of the Odyssey * Dan Featherston > on Bundy * John Olson on Enslin, Kyger, Donahue, Featherston, Gifford, > Palmer, Mueller * Barry Gifford on Harrison * James Thomas Stevens on C.D. > Wright * Anselm Berrigan on Joel Lewis * Norma Cole on David Miller * Judith > Roitman on Susan Howe. * Plus Anselm Hollo's "Some Thoughts for a Celebration > of Robert Creeley and Black Mountain." Also included, a directory of > publishers of the books reviewed. > > ******* The editor welcomes submissions of fiction, interviews, essays, > poetry and book reviews (query first please). Send us review copies of your > new books! ******* > > TO ORDER First Intensity #14: Send $9 (+$1.50 p/h) to Lee Chapman, Editor, > FIRST INTENSITY, P.O. Box 665, Lawrence, Kansas 66044. **** Subscription: $17 > U.S. (two big issues; we'll start w/the latest issue unless you say > otherwise). **** To order 3 or more copies, please contact Small Press > Distribution (phone: 1-800-869-7553; email: orders@spdbooks.org; website: > www.spdbooks.org) > > To check out our back issues and F.I. Press Books, visit the FIRST INTENSITY > website: http://members.aol.com/leechapman/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:00:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: cancellation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Well, unfortunately, Exene Cervenka has cancelled for Thursday night due to illness * but * Ellyn Maybe & Patricia Smith will still be reading as scheduled Ellyn Maybe is the author of The Cowardice of Amnesia, Putting My 2 Cents In, and The Ellyn Maybe Coloring Book. She will read her work in Michael Radford's (director of Il Postino/The Postman) upcoming film, Dancing at the Blue Iguana. Patricia Smith's latest book, Africans in America, a chronicle of the slave trade in this country, is the companion volume to the PBS documentary. Admission to this event is $7, $4 for students & seniors, and $3 for members. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Ave and 10th St in Manhattan. The Poetry Project is wheelchair-accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information. No advance tickets. Admission is at the door. Thanks and see you sometime this week! xo The PP at SMC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:40:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: New chapbooks by George Elliot Clarke and Andrea Selch Comments: To: "subsubpoetics@listbot.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Carolina Wren Press Poetry Chapbooks # 1 George Elliot Clarke, Gold Indigoes This lyric collection by the acclaimed Nova Scotian poet, playwright, and librettist traces the contours of relationship in lush yet startling francophilic tones. 32 pp., $12.95, $19.60 signed/lettered. # 2 Andrea Selch, Succory Politics gets personal in Selch’s debut, a volume spanning decades of memory and continents of care. In ten lyric poems and two longer sequences, humor and pain are doled out in equal heaping doses. 32 pp., $12.95, $19.64 signed/lettered. Carolina Wren Press Poetry Chapbooks are printed on high-quality paper with letterpress covers and handsewn bindings. Each book is printed in an edition of 500 copies, 26 of which are hand-lettered A-Z and signed by the author. I can tell you more about these books if you would like; email me directly at kellogg@duke.edu Orders taken by _regular_ mail to the address below, by phone, or through Small Press Distribution. Carolina Wren Press 120 Morris Street Durham, NC 27701 919.560.2738 FAX 560.2759 carolinawrenpress@compuserve.com Note to authors: Carolina Wren Press Poetry Chapbooks publishes established and new writers; we are especially interested in poetry that uses innovative form, poetry by historically underrepresented writers, and poetry by writers from or located in the Southeast. Send inquiries and a small sample to David Kellogg, Poetry Editor, at kellogg@duke.edu. Forthcoming: Chapbooks by Erica Hunt and Evie Shockley ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:18:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! Comments: To: Lawrence Upton Well, that last bit of nastiness was uncalled for, but still pretty funny. Sorry if my appreciation for that marvelous London audience was improperly put. So I'll say it again. That audience made me feel welcome, and it meant quite a lot to me. As we know, the world is filled with little snots. By the way, you claim that I did not say "then" that not every vp fits the mold. You're incorrect. There it is, in my original post, line seven. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:07:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Dr. Hank Lazer" Organization: The University of Alabama Subject: at last, in an affordable paperback... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable To the Poetics List: Announcing the latest volume in the series Modern and Contemporary Poetics, edited by Charles Bernstein and Hank Lazer Discrepant Engagement Dissonance, Cross-Culturality, and Experimental Writing Nathaniel Mackey This highly regarded and frequently referenced work of literary criticism is essential to any study of avant garde poetics. Nathaniel Mackey addresses the poetry and prose of a number of authors not commonly grouped together: black writers from the United States and the Caribbean and the so-called Black Mountain poets. Although they are seemingly disparate, these writers are united by their experimentation with style and form. Mackey, an important contemporary poet and critic, focuses on the experimental aspects of their work rather than on its subject matter or authorship to show that they all share an implied critique of conventional poetic practices. Mackey analyzes the work of Black Mountain poets Robert Duncan, Robert Creeley, and Charles Olson, African American poets Amiri Baraka and Clarence Major, and Caribbean writers Edward Kamau Brathwaite and Wilson Harris. He frequently brings the work of these authors into dialogue and juxtaposition, noting the parallels and counterpoint that exist among writers normally separated by ethnic, temporal, or regional boundaries. By insisting that their experimentation unites these writers rather than marginalizes them, Mackey questions traditional notions that underlie conventional perceptions and practice. =93Insisting on the political importance of radical innovation without the trappings of intellectual fashion, tempered by an awareness of the historical scale of his assertions, and challenging liberal notions of cultural pluralism and artistic opposition, Nathaniel Mackey makes an important, sophisticated contribution to current debates about cultural diversity and the political relevance of experimental writing.=94=97Contemporary Literature =93Nathaniel Mackey has accomplished his task admirably. Discrepant Engagement demands from us an openness to alternative frames of reference and a recognition of the ways in which traditional categories restrict our own perceptions of the potential for intertextuality among cultures, literary schools, races, regions, and rubrics.=94=97African American Review Nathaniel Mackey is Professor of Literature at the University of California, Santa Cruz. 328 pages, 6 x 9 ISBN 0-8173-1032-0 $24.95 paper SPECIAL OFFER TO POETICS LISTSERV 20% DISCOUNT WHEN YOU MENTION THAT YOU ARE ON THE POETICS LISTSERV OFFER EXPIRES 31 May 2000 To order contact Michelle Sellers: E=96mail { HYPERLINK mailto:msellers@uapress.ua.edu }msellers@uapress.ua.e= du Phone (205) 348=967108 Fax (205) 348=969201 or mail to: The University of Alabama Press Marketing Department Box 870380 Tuscaloosa, AL 35487=960380 Attn: Michelle Sellers www.uapress.ua.edu Mackey/Discrepant Engagement, paper discounted price $15.96 ISBN 0-8173-1032-0 Subtotal _________________ Illinois residents add 8.75% sales tax _________________ USA orders: add $3.50 postage for the first book and $.75 for each additional book _________________ Canada residents add 7% sales tax _________________ International orders: add $4.00 postage for the first book and $1.00 for each additional book _________________ Enclosed as payment in full _________________ (Make checks payable to The University of Alabama Press) Bill my: _________Visa _________MasterCard Account number _____________________________ Daytime phone_______________________________ Expiration date _______________________________ Full name____________________________________ Signature ____________________________________ Address_____________________________________ _ City _________________________________________ State_______________________ Zip ______________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:59:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: eloquence: a ramble In-Reply-To: <200004250408.e3P48tj14073@pony.its.uwo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII karen kelley writes: "Van the Man is the PERFECT example of the beauty of inarticulateness. Those points where his words get tangled, and his *voice* stages the battle between emotion and articulation..." rock critic lester bangs (r.i.p.) has a terrific take on this aspect of van morrison and a great reading of "astral weeks" in his essay collection "psychotic reactions and carburetor dung" (vintage, 1988). bests, t. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:18:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: NEW BOOK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The University of Illinois Press is accepting advance orders at a pre-publication discount of 20% for _Reading Race in American Poetry: "An Area of Act"_ edited by Aldon Lynn Nielsen contributors to the collection include: Charles Bernstein Felipe Smith Lorenzo Thomas Rachel Blau DuPlessis Maria Mootry Aldon Lynn Nielsen Kathryne Lindberg Carole Doreski Nathaniel Mackey the paperback edition will be available at the prepublication price of $15.16 until June 30. Call toll-free (mention code NRR): 800-545-4703 WARNING -- BLURB FOLLOWS: "This volume cannot be ignored by anyone interested in the central questions of American literary scholarship." --Craig Hansen Werner, author of A CHANGE IS GONNA COME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:43:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Randy Prunty Subject: bernadette mayer in atlanta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bernadette mayer will be reading at emory university may 1 at 7:30 p.m. the event is sponsored by the atlanta poets group, and emory's graduate student council and english department. if anyone needs directions or other info drop me a note backchannel. randy prunty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:59:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Grant Jenkins Subject: Re: susan howe quote search In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rebecca, As I recall, it was about a year ago that you and I had a debate about class on this list, and I brought up the point about Howe not caring about her audience. I believe she says it in an interview. Try: Foster, Edward, ed. "Susan Howe." Postmoder Poetry: The Talisman Interviews. Hoboken, NJ: Talisman House, 1994. or Keller, Lynn. "Interview with Susan Howe." Contemporary Literature 36 (1995): 1-34. Good luck, Granj ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:54:40 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: EVERYTHING YOU OUGHT TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4TH SV COLLOQUIUM Comments: To: british-poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The FOURTH SUB VOICIVE COLLOQUIUM will take place next month. This message gives you full information. *PLEASE *READ *IT & IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN COMING, PLEASE REGISTER!!!!!!!!!!! (see below) ------------------------------ VENUE The venue for the colloquium is 30 Russell Square, London W C 1 Saturday 20th May 2000 10 a.m. till 6 p.m. [Do not send colloquium correspondence to this address!] -------------------------------------- SPEAKERS Lead speakers at the colloquium are: John Cayley - _Transl(iter)ation: programmed, iterative spanning of literal disjuncture_ Adrian Clarke - _Dante's Purgatorio XXVIII_ Ken Edwards - to be announced Harry Gilonis - _traitorous translation_ Loss Pequeño Glazier - _Language on the Frontera : alt="palabra"_ Bill Griffiths - _Innovations: some historical examples_ Robert Hampson - _Translation & Innovation_ Rob Mackenzie - _Macaronic verse: last refuge of the mongrel_ Johan de Wit - _Silence until broken_ but this is a colloquium and you are encouraged to participate --------------------------------------- REGISTRATION Registration can be unnecessarily time consuming, time we do not have. Registration, therefore, will be conducted by post. You are asked to register in advance for the colloquium by sending a cheque for £10 (£5 concessions) - sterling payments only - payable to "Lawrence Upton" to: 32 Downside Road, Sutton, Surrey SM2 5HP to arrive before 17th May 2000. On arrival at the colloquium you will be given a colloquium badge which you are asked to wear throughout the day. --------------------------------------------- REFRESHMENTS Tea and coffee will be provided at registration and during the afternoon. The possibility of biscuits is being investigated. It can be difficult to get lunch in the area on a Saturday because many of the cafes are closed. You are welcome to bring your own lunch &, in addition, we are making arrangements to have sandwiches, decent and decently-priced sandwiches brought in i.e. you have to pay for them but we'll arrange for them to be delivered. Let us know if this is of interest and as soon as the details are received, we'll be in contact. N.B. Tea and coffee will be served in a room adjacent to the colloquium room and lunch may be taken there. If it's a fine day, we can go into the square. ----------------------------------------- BOOKSTALL There will be a staffed bookstall running through much of the day, though it will close early for stock-taking. It will be run by Paul Holman and Bridget Penney who ran the stall at the 3rd Sub Voicive Colloquium. It is hoped that it will be open for business during registration; but it will close before the end of the colloquium for stock-taking. It is hoped that invoices will be settled on the day; unsold books will be returned. No responsibility can be taken for publications left at the colloquium after 6 p.m. on 20th May 2000. Publishers are invited to participate on the understanding that stock must be delivered and collected on the day between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. and that a 40% discount will be deducted. The following simple rules apply for our mutual benefit. * Do NOT send your publications to Sub Voicive Poetry or to the venue. You must bring them and collect them yourself on the day or arrange for someone else to do that on your behalf before 6 p.m. * Don't bring millions of books. Be selective and realistic. Select publications which are relevant to what is going on during the day and the likely audience. * Make sure that the price is clearly on the book. Post-it notes are fine, but you must supply them. * Supply a list of the books supplied - incl. qty. i.e. a delivery note. * Supply an invoice with the books. Response suggestions - write your cheque and send it off; then, if you are a publisher, prepare your contribution to the bookstall -------------------------------------------- at Sub Voicive Poetry 2nd May 2000 8 p.m.+ Lawrence Upton & Johan de Wit 19th May 8 p.m.+ Bill Griffiths 20th May 10 a.m.+ 4th Sub Voicive Colloquium see website for details - http://matrix.crosswinds.net/members/~subvoicivepoetry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:03:58 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Quale press FWD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, I just want to let you know that Quale Press will be shut down from Thursday April 28 through Tuesday May 2 while the office gets moved. Things will be back in production on Wednesday May 3. The new address is: Gian Lombardo Quale Press 93 Main St. Florence, MA 01062 Ph & fax: 1-413-587-0776 Please note that now my mailing and shipping (for FedEx & UPS) addresses will be the same. My email address remains the same at lombardo@quale.com and the Web address still remains the same at http://www.quale.com. Also, I'll be changing Quale Press's Internet service provider on May 1, so to play it safe, please refrain from emailing me that day (just in case there's a screw-up in the transfer). I apologize if this causes any inconvenience. Best, Gian Lombardo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:02:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Invitation Comments: To: poetryetc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you are going to be in Sydney this Friday 28th April you would be welcome at the launch to celebrate the 158th issue of "overland" at Gleebooks, 49 Glebe Point Road, Glebe at 6.30pm. The editor, Ian Syson, will be introducing Sydney writer & academic, Michael Wilding who will speak glowingly of "overland" magazine's achievements. Refreshments provided - for a glimpse of the contents visit... http://dingo.vu.edu.au/~arts/cals/overland/158.html ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:44:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Re: Angry Penguins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Poetics list & Brian Stefans, I guess you're making a play on the Australian Angry Penguin group from the 1940's...? Pam Brown --- Harry Tankoos Books wrote: > A N G R Y P E N G U I N S > > a new book by > > Brian Kim Stefans > > is now available from Harry Tankoos Books via Small > Press Distribution. > > $9 (perfect bound, b&w cover) > 72p > ISBN 0-9678031-1-X > > Angry Penguins is Stefans's third full-length > collection, and includes The > Overtures of Holograms: Poems by Roger Pellett > ("Punks of Diderot/ are > smoking by the John/ door, aware of their historical > deterrence;") and Dawns > of the B-Machine. The latter section includes "This > is Orson Welles" ("the > abundance, the dancing, the cowardices, indices/ of > a carnival described > within its profusion"), "3rd Thoughts on the > Tarmac," and "The Straw Camel," > a long poem ("Progress 'montrous',...That's not > final, by the way"). > > > Also available: > > G U L F > > Gulf is Stefans's second full-length book, published > by Object/Poetscoop in > 1998, and now reprinted for Harry Tankoos Books > (also available from the > press via SPD). In the great New York samizdat > tradition, Gulf takes the > dramas, drones and abysses of the letter-sized page > to the max. > > $7 (8.5 x 11) > 104p > ISBN 0-9678031-2-8 > > Includes "Organelles, a script," "Terms of the > Anglo-Saxon Ritual," the > long, serial "Gulf" and 29 other lyrics and > lysergencies. > > Brian Kim Stefans is the author of Free Space Comix > (Roof, 1998) and the > editor of Arras Online. > > Please contact harrytankoosbooks@att.net for more > information (replies after > May 8). > > Thanks. > ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:25:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: eloquence: a ramble Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I couldn't care less about Benjamin and Wittgenstein, but this idea of >someone's talking going outside with his cup his cup of sanka is neat. >Yeah, I know I misread it, but it was an easy misread to make and I >like it. > > --Bob G. now that's a fresh pound of surf, yr first comment there. what a thrill. x, ET ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:43:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: eloquence: a ramble Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, Jonathan Richman. And if we get to mention Vanman, hey, Bob Dylan is king of this in my opinion, as evidenced in insane crossrhyming that I like to plug into the heads of my dear lit students every single semester it is on the poetry terms quiz, dudes. Poems about sanka and nature are real! Sentences are not emotional paragraphs are! And exclamatory markings! To me it's not even as organized as stuttering. It's the, to really stick a humpty dumpty leg out, this f*cked up and at moments mundane eloquence that is the only thing that can make any gesture toward spirituality seem at all feasible; one gal's opinion or operating procedure. Nother line of thread, students may indeed find themselves and each other more interesting models than Homer or Stevens or whomever their teacher's fave is, yes ain't it so? Kasey, your post on inarticulate range to eloquenceory here in this issue is fabulous. I don't quite see Virginia how she fits in exactly tho -- there is something self-contained in her works so that I never can quite think of her as a Modernist, personally, tho I am utterly in love with her. Esp THE YEARS. As for the language writers, it seems >like sometimes you face the problem of duplicity from another angle: there's >sometimes the gnawing suspicion that the poet is using disjunctiveness to >mask the absence of actual poetry, that you're sometimes getting >pretend-poetry produced by a throw of the dice, but which still claims the >status of political or epistemological critique, or something equally >important. (Please note the repeated use of "sometimes.") > >>Now it seems to me that the disjunctive paratactic style in poetry >>is at least this: a resistance to eloquence. I think you can see that >>particularly in Michael Palmer, because the individual sentences are >>often noticably elegant, but put together to forestall an accumulation >>of eloquence. I am not trying to insult anyone when I say from my familiarity with his work (incomplete) Palmer is very much driving toward eloquence, tho not the tricky cliche type of, oh some poet laureates. I mean R Pinsky has a poem in which he pees, somehow this is vulgarity? I don't know, the terms mix for me here. What exactly can a resistance to eloquence per se mean politically? poetically? Playing fast and loose after nightfall, x, ET ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:23:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: (strategy for) Expanding the Repertoire Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm glad this conversation is still going, however slowly and locally. yes, having made it to the party, the feeling lingers, like hearing Chaka Khan sing "A Night In Tunisia". and the resonance felt by those invited but didn't/couldn't come? I asked a question about the generation of crit/other discussion of innovative writers of color, basically, "Where's the work?", this directed "inside" and "out". Some great work has come out by N. Mackey, P. Naylor and A. L. Nielsen, and more is rumored to come from J. Spahr, and this heartens me, that investigations about work across gender race, class, time, movement(s), regions, etc. can come about, will continue to be published. I've since asked myself, and have been asked, about whom I'd like to write on, whose poetic work I'd like to critically discuss. With all the books in my tiny apartment (threatening to crush me like poor Burgess Meredith in that horrific Twilight Zone episode of yore), I have yet to come up with an answer that feels right, inspired, honest, passionate, not just dutiful or purely political. I'm reminded of Erica Hunt impressing upon listeners the importance of a reading strategy. What should of course follow is a writing strategy. How do we come to write about writers writing? By chance? Infatuation? Affinity? Academic credit? (Here I'm musing about how some of the best books by Black women I own were recovered at the yard sale of some women's studies chick about to move out of town, but I digress with a double-edged smirk. How cheap the books, how sad the sidewalk...) I'm also reminded of Hunt's appearance in a film of Abigail Child's, so maybe I can start there, by reading them side by side. There's the shelf, and their books, about to fall... A quick list poem from paperback titles improperly stacked: sonnets from the portuguese the black expatriates film as art all night visitors another country three negro classics the prose poem the colossus dream of the red chamber dandelion wine the waiting years we be word sorcerers tales from the decameron tomas the dispossessed the selected writings of Gertrude Stein les liaisons dangereuses the metamorphoses wild seed talking back when the moon waxes red ain't i a woman liliane corregidora cane the book of orgasms babel-17 dices or black bones krik? krak! hue and cry the souls of black folk things fall apart thousand cranes paroles masters of the dew walking through clear water (in a pool painted black) anne frank intimacy nectar in a sieve the mismeasure of man distance without distance gorilla my love I'm puzzling out the strategy of what I've read, and what should come after...it's like asking "who am I? "what am I made of?" Struggling with discomfort, with life, in writing: we all do this and read it being done. How does one expand the repertoire of the kindred? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:30:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Carter Subject: river eyes red inspire within screenbound notes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" { } river eyes red inspire within screenbound notes in clay the way it lay: flower lady in facets the air afar sighed from the chill in their mutual nearness(es) an orientation of knots not about to come undone scorned stalkings envelop her call-buttoned invisible eggs newly swelling from their tininesses' offer-inks fuel devotion ever-miniaturizing wheels within wheels itch was a city shine river reveries careen screen wrench self-tightened self-heightened intense cities multiple letter litter procreate in lights a jungle-bundle packet for the innernet: let's glow! -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:31:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble In-Reply-To: <000d01bfabbf$73926360$d8cd56d1@na.nai.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Henry James stuttered--quite amazing when you think he dictated many of his later works! James dictatated to a typist--thinking of him producing those long clause filled sentences, with the window open (passersby noted they heard him) and faced with a poker faced Scotsman who irked James by showing no emotion to the author's most elaboratley conceived effects, there seems to be a germ of projective verse at work . . . After all, Olson noted that "in BILLY BUDD, the stutter is the plot" . . . The stuttering in R&B music is mellisma--and came often from Gospel singing-- It is also very common in Country Western music--and Blues harmonica, let alone voices and guitar-- There are a lot of ways to create visual stutters--a simple one is by manipulating a stroboscope--or not maninipulating it--also "flicker" films-- lights from police cars--etc-- (I should note that Edith Wharton discovered that when reciting Whitman, his favorite poet, James did not stutter.) The question of eloquence is interesting--have always wondered when listening to some "eloquent" passage--Shakespeare, say--or many others of fame & note--how much the writer was propelled (not to mention, of course, the actor/performer)--by the sheer energy of language, as much as by the convictions expressed-- I.E.--there are forms of eloquence that are non-- ironic--totally caught up in the surge of expression--"beyond words" zaum and sound poetry have explored many avenues of this and often use visual poems/forms as notation never will forget attending Pentecoastal tent meetings in Kentucky over a period of days and seeing/hearing people burst into paroxysms and speaking in tongues-- (there's a great early Steve Reich piece, tape loopings of street preacher, which builds from a stuttering effect to---ecstasy? paranoia etc--tape recordings can be well used for these effects) one ccc---cccc---co-ud---ggg ggo oo--oonnn . . . go on . . dave baptiste chirot ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:07:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/25/00 4:32:11 PM, immerito@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << I'm very interested in this because I'm preparing a paper on inarticulateness in 2nd-gen (mostly) New York School poets for the NPF conference on American Poetry in the 60s this June in Maine. I'm looking, for instance, at Ron Padgett's "smuh" in _Great Balls of Fire_, or more generally the aphasic aspects of Brainard's, Padgett's, Elmslie's comix, etc. >> Kasey, I'm very eager to hear your paper. Seeing the 2nd gen NYS as performing a kind of poetics of inarticulateness is potentially a fascinating topic, I think. But isn't the 2nd gen NYS situated between 2 poetries of hyper-articulateness--1st gen NYS & LangPo? It was the 1st generation's articulateness, after all, that made O'H, Ash, et. al. useful middlemen for the Ab Ex painters--many of whom (think of Pollock) were literally & painfully inarticulate. The 1st gen gave Ab Ex a voice, so to speak (& Frank O'Hara's production falls off in the mid-60s when his role as a mouthpiece for Ab Ex diminishes), whereas the 2nd gen doesn't play this role at all in relation to painting's inarticulateness--even mimicing, instead, the inarticulateness of Warhol, say (as in Padgett's "Sonnet to Sleep" or "Nothing in that Drawer"). Issues of class & sexual orientation also seem relevant in this connection in determining what can and cannot be said. In fact, the hyper articulateness of the 1st gen NYS is a product, in part, of privilege (Harvard educations)--but also--that is, the display & the ends to which articulateness is meant to perform--as a form of subserviance (as cultural middlemen) resulting from the disparity in status between themselves and the Ab Ex painters. In this instance, articulateness--**rather than inarticulateness**-- can even be seen to be a form of abjection, perhaps. --Jacques PS: my vote for rambling eloquence goes to Thomas Bernhard--Wiitgenstein's Nephew & The Loser--just to name my 2 favorite of his novels-- are each extraordinary, aphasic monologues. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:08:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Franco Subject: CORBET FRANCO & TORRA: READING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit POETS WILLIAM CORBETT MICHAEL FRANCO JOSEPH TORRA WITH -TAPESTRY- A MEDIEVAL SINGING GROUP CELEBRATE THE CURRENT SHOW AT THE NEW ART CENTER IN NEWTON MA.. THREE FABULISTS: VISIONS OF FACT AND FANTASY KATHA SEIDMAN ANTHONY APESOS AND LAURIE KAPLOWITZ WITH A READING / PERFORMANCE SUNDAY APRIL 30TH 2PM FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC NEW ARTS CENTER IN NEWTON 61 WASHINGTON PARK NEWTONVILLE MA 617 964-3424 www.newartscenter.org best to all Michael Franco ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:03:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Funkhouser, Chris" Subject: webcast lecture on cybertext design and editing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Poetics, I know some of you have recieved this already. Apologies for multiple sendings. On Wednesday 4/26 I am presenting the fourth of 4 lectures in NJIT's CYBER/SPACE/IMAGE/TEXT New Media Series 2000. Previous lecturers were Stephanie Strickland, Tina LaPorta, and Diane Greco. The lecture "Cybertext Editing and Design: NEWARK REVIEW's Inner- and Outer- connections" Is scheduled to be broadcast on the WWW, live, at 2:30 p.m. east coast (est) from NJIT's Guttenberg Information and Technology Center. Via http://www.njcmr.org/funk.ram real player is required get rp 7 from http://real.com [ please forward this info to anyone who may be interested ] thanks cf funkhouser@adm.njit.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:25:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Foley Subject: replies to eloquence &c. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gonna _try_ to make this brief ... Murat asks: >after all, isn't his "Philosophical Investigation" a >reductio absurdum carrying-water extension of British Empiricism in the >pursuit of rejecting German meytaphysics, specifically Hegel? No. ***** Kasey writes: >(another example would be "Listen to the Lion" on _St. Dominick's Preview_, >with its scary fits of growling and muttering that are so beautiful also). Yeah that one really overwhelms me, I mean literally 9 out of 10 times I listen to it I get a lump in my throat and tears in my eyes. It gets to me. It is such a courageous performance, the way he goes all the way back to the noisemaking & experimentation of a toddler (not unlike my own son Tim) and he's so free about it, this man is so far, and maybe just for the moment just when he's really into the music, is so far past normal concerns like embarrassment, looking ridiculous. Who else could do that? (Actually he might be like that a lot of the time: I was flipping through a Henry Rollins book a couple weeks ago and Rollins is talking about the time he met Van Morrison and telling the interviewer that he's a very hard man to know, very intense -- okay, this is someone _Rollins_ finds intense, whoa.) (I guess Jonathan Richman is another guy who is resolutely unembarassed.) So that's a lot of it for me, that fearlessness or courage, whichever it is. Now there are values there that were bandied about a lot in the heyday of suicidal confessionals, but it doesn't seem like quite the same thing to me & I'd love to nail down the difference. When Robert Lowell more-or-less admits he's an asshole in verse, maybe I just don't quite buy it cause it seems like he's _still_ trying to manipulate us, you know? But by telling a little of the truth. You don't have to lie to manipulate. (One of Freud's favorite jokes, wasn't it? "Why do you lie, telling me you're going to Krakow so I'll think you're going to Warsaw when in fact you _are_ going to Krakow?") So like that for, say Lowell, but I don't feel like Van Morrison is trying to get anything from me. >As for the language writers, it seems >like sometimes you face the problem of duplicity from another angle: there's >sometimes the gnawing suspicion that the poet is using disjunctiveness to >mask the absence of actual poetry, that you're sometimes getting >pretend-poetry produced by a throw of the dice, but which still claims the >status of political or epistemological critique, or something equally >important. (Please note the repeated use of "sometimes.") I didn't want to cut off the disclaimers, but the meat of this for me is in the middle, where it always is (I hear). Some of you who are kind enough to read my posts may gradually form a picture of where they're coming from, so to speak, since come on I'm just working out my personal problems in public because they happen to connect up here & there with more or less theoretical & public sorts of problems of poetics. Well don't they all, I guess. And what we're talking about now is very close to ground zero. Almost everything I've written in the decade or more since I first thought I'd try writing poetry, eventually if not immediately leaves me uncertain whether I've got a poem or something that _sounds_ like a poem. Sound generally being important in poetry, it looks like that might be nonsensical. Maybe it is. Didn't Duke Ellington say, "If it sounds good, it is good"? Only now & then I'll see something in print that I can best describe as "sounds like poetry but isn't", so it's a distinction I find reinforced by experience. (Except that I might still be wrong.) And then there's a question about whether you're reading a fraud or someone who can't tell the difference. Or at least not all the time. It's not so uncommon after all for someone who has written great poems also to have written some sort of self-plagiarisms, "in the manner of ..." themselves in fact. It happens. ---- So, the "pretend-poetry" idea is basically an obsession with me, for good & ill. But anyway I think it's clear why freedom is such a big issue for me and comes up in talking about Van Morrison, or Kerouac, or jazz, almost all the time. Kasey also asks me, in a nutshell, how I distinguish fake eloquence from real eloquence, which is the same sort of deal, and maybe it's a distinction that can't be held long. Except that sometimes you're conned by a master and sometimes you're taken by a cheap crook. The rest of Kasey's thoughts on language-sounds & so on deserve a response I don't have time for right now, but I'll try soon. Oh yeah-- didn't someone mention Pharoah Sanders? To me one of the great transcendent moments of recording history is on the Heart is a Melody album (rec. live at Keystone Korner) when he's playing "Ole" and he takes the saxophone from his mouth and I guess the word is "screams" the theme (and then goes on, alternating voice and saxophone for a few bars). To reach a point where the instrument isn't necessary, wow. (What's that famous Richman line about learning how to play "with nothing, with our guitars broken, in the rain", something like that.) And it's reminiscent of how Morrison on "Listen to the Lion" seems to dig deep down for the most primitive source of the music... Thanks all. Pat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:55:48 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Plight, re: Bill Luoma MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Economic low here. If someone could photocopy Bill's recent book & send we sure could use it . A new copy would be nice, hell, even sign his name on it. I've envelope copped enough postage to return some favor-- Be well David Baratier 2318 N. High St apt 2 Columbus, Oh 43202 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:25:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! Comments: To: Lawrence Upton And my best to you! Now that's the way these "things" should resolve themselves. Cheers! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:26:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Macgregor Card Subject: Germ $ Issues presents Lubasch/Sharma/Downing/Zutshi, Providence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ** Germ East $ Issues presents ** QUICK PERSONAL STEALTH SCHEME Three poets, nyc, sf(ca) & nyc averaging 28 some odd years give 20+ some odd minutes of maximum infraction acumen. Brandon DOWNING, Lisa LUBASCH, Prageeta SHARMA. Rishi ZUTSHI opens. FRIDAY, APRIL 21, 7PM The Crystal Room in Alumnae Hall (194 Meeting Street, x-street Thayer) Brown University, Providence RI Anyone want to start a carpool board? Brandon Downing hails from San Francisco, and is a founder of Blue Books at New College of California this year. A poet, he is the winner of the 1997 Chelsea Prize for Short Fiction. Check out poems from his manuscript _The Shirt Weapon_ in journals like Lungfull!, The Hat and upcoming Germ. Prageeta Sharma is a graduate of Brown's MFA program. Her first book, _Bliss to Fill_, is just out from Subpress. Recent work has appeared in Agni, Explosive, Shiny, and The Poetry Project Newsletter. She runs a reading series in Brooklyn and is the drummer for The Sleeves. Lisa Lubasch is author of _How Many More of Them Are You?_ (Avec, 1999), which winner of the Norma Farber First Book Award. She's published in numerous brave new magazines, like Explosive and The Hat, holds an MA from John Hopkins and lives in New York City. For more info contact: Macgregor_Card@Brown.edu or Sean_Casey@Brown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:34:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble Comments: To: Patrick Foley In Patrick's otherwise very entertaining and informative improvisation on jazz (I'd throw Sanders in there also, but that's just me), he names Derrida as one of thinkers he no longer likes (or words to that effect). In no way do I mean this as a criticism of Patrick's point of view, but it is more than clear that Derrida is no longer fashionable in America. A recent editorial (or letter, or review-- don't remember which) in the small press review referred to deconstruction as french poodle theory. This sort of thing does little to advance the discussion, though it perhaps speaks to a long tradition of American anti- intellectualism and narrowmindedness. Derrida doesn't need me to defend him; that's for sure. But when Freud fell out of favor, there was at least a considered response to his structuring of the psyche. When Existentialism (earlier french poodle stuff that informed Hemingway's art, to name just one) fell out of favor, it fell to a considered rebuttal that interrogated certain a priori assumptions. I have yet to see a sensible argrument mounted against Derrida's evaluation of the metaphysical tradition. What I have read are vague resistances aimed at what can only be described as a caricature of Derrida and deconstruction, written by those who clearly have not read him extensively and/or do not understand what they have read. The few coherent arguments I've come across fail almost immediately because they rely always on some version of a unified self (and self-identical premises) a priori. In other words, their argument amounts to "I don't like what I'm hearing so I'm covering my ears. I'm more than willing to let Derrida go down in flames, but so far I don't feel any heat. Exactly what's wrong with what he has said? Where is the threat that so many people seem to perceive? Any takers? Once again, not a criticism of Patrick whose post focuses on other matters. But it did give me an opportunity to raise this issue. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:28:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! / Grumman Comments: To: Poetics List Wait a minute! That Bob Grumman? Now I know . . . (just kidding, Bob). Gee, why don't more people know who I am? After all, I was a minor rock n' roll star in the 70s (now that is a joke!) But seriously, folks, it's good to be in contact with you, Bob. Hope your health improves expotensionally (tension is good for art). As far as I'm concerned, you're a major player. By the way, I agree with everything you say here, above, or below, or wherever we're hangin' these days. When was the last time that happened? Frightening! By and by the way, Guy has a piece in the new issue of my rag uh, mag, BLACKBOX, if we just get the damn thing printed. I've done a few visual poems, but mostly I'm at the other end of the experimental gyre (not sure if I'm just starting out or falling apart)--french symbolists through Eliot/Stevens (and some Pound), dragging into the 21st a bit of the Beats as I come forward, not forgetting Whitman/Williams, the New York School, with a special fondness for de Sade and Lautreamont. In other words, I make garbage piles. But just because I find my challenges elsewhere doesn't mean I donna like vp. I do, I do. I still think that it's a big boat, and we're all swimming against the tide of all that boring narrative, this happened to my grandfather verse. All my best ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:43:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: visual poetry--Bob Grumman! / Grumman Comments: To: Poetics List Ah, jeez, now I feel guilty about that rather adolescent slam of conventional narrative poets. Not fair. Different sensibility, different methodology. I confess to liking, quite a lot, some of those narratives, even a few about relatives. Lee Young Lee's "Persimmons" is a fine poem. "Sex Without Love" (Sharon Olds) is pretty cool too. But ultimately, neither poem is messy enough for me. I feel similarly about those visual poems I don't like (as opposed to those I do like). Too neat. Too crafted and crafty. When a poem is done, the poet should be drenched in shit. Or at least beer. , ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:54:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: query: Stein's long jump In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Can anyone tell me who jested that Stein set the equivalent of a long jump >record with _Tender Buttons_? Ralph Boston. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:03:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Poets David Lehman/ Gerald Stern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't miss: Two award winning poets in one week!! Visit the poetry website for more information: http://www.bestweb.net/~cindyf/poetry_2000.htm DAVID LEHMAN and An Evening with GERALD STERN FEATURE POETS for MAY POETRY SERIES Mt. Kisco, NY: May begins with a double feature week of award winning poets at the Creative Arts Caf=E9 Poetry Series at Northern Westchester Center for the Arts. Monday May 1st, DAVID LEHMAN, the award winning poet and noted editor of The Best American Poetry series begins May’s poetry events with a reading and book signing followed by an OPEN MIKE. Friday, May 5th National Book Award Recipient GERALD STERN celebrates his newest book LAST BLUE at a special event - AN EVENING WITH GERALD STERN. Each reading begins at 7:30 PM. In January 1996, David Lehman began writing a poem nearly every day. During his longest streak, Mr. Lehman wrote a poem on 140 consecutive days. In celebration of National Poetry Month, April 1998, in addition to their daily poem, Poetry Daily presented a poem written by David Lehman each day that month. Mr. Lehman's poems, some of which are past "daily" poems, have appeared in The Yale Review, The Paris Review, Michigan Quarterly Review, Boulevard, Shenandoah, Lingo, Verse, Brilliant Corners, Boston Review, and Boston Book Review. His daily poems have now been gathered in a book, The Daily Mirror, a title taken from a New York City tabloid that folded as a result of a calamitous 1962 newspaper strike. David Lehman was born in New York City in 1948. He attended Cambridge University as a Kellett Fellow and went on to receive his doctorate in English at Columbia University, where he was Lionel Trilling's research assistant. He is the Series Editor of The Best American Poetry Series, and author of three previous books of poems, including Valentine Place (Scribner, 1996) and Operation Memory (Princeton, 1990). His prose books include The Last Avant-Garde: The Making of the New York School of Poets, Signs of the Times: Deconstruction and the Fall of Paul de Man, and The Big Question. He is also co-editor with Star Black of The KGB Bar a collection of poems from their popular NYC Poetry Series. Not since the days of the beatniks have poetry readings been so popular. In New York City. The series, named by New York magazine as the best, is a “simple, no-frills affair, packed with a standing-room-only crowd intent on [hearing] the most famous poets in America mixed with the up-and-comers." David and Star Black have jointly directed the KGB Bar poetry series since its inception in 1997. Mr. Lehman is on the core faculty of the graduate writing programs at Bennington College and the New School for Social Research. He divides his time between Ithaca, New York, and New York City. David Lehman is also the general editor of University of Michigan Press's Poets on Poetry Series. In addition, University of Michigan Press has published the revised edition of Ecstatic Occasions, Expedient Forms, edited by Mr. Lehman, that comprises poems and commentary by 85 poets, each of whom discusses the form of the poem and what occasioned it. The book includes examples of sonnets, villanelles, pantoums, prose poems, and such ad hoc forms as a poem in the form of an index to a nonexistent book and a poem in the form of a baseball lineup. Gerald Stern was winner of the 1998 National Book Award for Poetry for his volume This Time: New and Selected Poems. The book was lauded as an important work from a major poet, “an exuberant collection that delves deeply into the anguish and ecstasy of the world.” In his new book, Last Blue Stern further explores the weight of history and the buoyancy of memory, the casual miracles of relationships, and his irrevocable connection to the natural world. Gerald Stern was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in 1925. His books of poetry include: Last Blue; This Time: New and Selected Poems (W. W. Norton, 1998), which won the National Book Award; Odd Mercy (1995); Bread Without Sugar (1992), winner of the Paterson Poetry Prize; Leaving Another Kingdom: Selected Poems(1990); Two Long Poems (1990); Lovesick (1987); Paradise Poems (1984); The Red Coal (1981), which received the Melville Caine Award from the Poetry Society of America; Lucky Life, the 1977 Lamont Poetry Selection of The Academy of American Poets, which was nominated for a National Book Critics Circle Award; and Rejoicings (1973). His honors include the Paris Review's Bernard F. Conners Award, the Bess Hokin Award from Poetry, the Ruth Lilly Prize, four National Endowment for the Arts grants, the Pennsylvania Governor's Award for Excellence in the Arts, the Jerome J. Shestack Poetry Prize from American Poetry Review, and fellowships from The Academy of American Poets, the Guggenheim Foundation, and the Pennsylvania Council on the Arts. For many years a teacher at the University of Iowa Writers' Workshop, he lives in Easton, Pennsylvania, and New York City. There is a suggested donation of $7.00; $5.00 for seniors and students for the David Lehman reading. The admission for An Evening with Gerald Stern is $10.00. There is a reception following each reading. Cindy Beer-Fouhy, Director of Literary Arts, will host both events. The Creative Arts Caf=E9 Poetry Series is sponsored, in part, by the New York State Council on the Arts and the Bydale Foundation. The Northern Westchester Center for the Arts is located at 272 N. Bedford Road, Mt. Kisco, NY. For information and directions, please call 914 241 6922. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:07:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Barrett Watten -- Zone: The Poetics of Space (Vancouver) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Zone: The Poetics of Space a Reading/Talk by Barrett Watten Saturday May 6, 2000 6:30pm sharp Simon Fraser University at Harbour Centre 515 West Hastings Street Vancouver BC Free Barrett Watten presents an illustrated reading/talk on the poetics of spatial fantasy from Charles Olson to Detroit, the underside of postmodernism, and the aesthetic issue of Stan Douglas' photographic series Le Détroit. Watten is an associate professor at Wayne State University and author of Progress (Roof 1985), Under Erasure (Zasterle 1992), Bad History (Atelos 1997), Frame: 1971-1990 (Sun & Moon 1997), and a book of essays, Total Syntax (Souther Illinois University Press 1985). A Project of The Office for Soft Architecture. Co-sponsored by Artspeak Gallery, the Kootenay School of Writing, The Morris and Helen Belkin Art Gallery (University of British Columbia), Charles H. Scott Gallery (Emily Carr Institute of Art and Design), and The Simon Fraser University School for the Contemporary Arts. www.artspeak.bc.ca www.ksw.net www.belkin-gallery.ubc.ca www.eciad.bc.ca/chscott www.sfu.ca/sca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:03:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Re: howe to search In-Reply-To: <200004270406.AAA08087@halo.angel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks Grant. I have an extremely bad memory, for debates, quotes, all of it. Together with Frances Richard, non-fiction editor of Fence, I am working on putting together a symposium on, roughly, class and subjectivity for Issue 6 of Fence, due out in the Fall, and I wanted to find the Howe quote to use as stimulus for responses from our participants. Thanks again, Rebecca Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:59:28 -0400 From: Grant Jenkins Subject: Re: susan howe quote search Rebecca, As I recall, it was about a year ago that you and I had a debate about class on this list, and I brought up the point about Howe not caring about her audience. I believe she says it in an interview. Try: Foster, Edward, ed. "Susan Howe." Postmoder Poetry: The Talisman Interviews. Hoboken, NJ: Talisman House, 1994. or Keller, Lynn. "Interview with Susan Howe." Contemporary Literature 36 (1995): 1-34. Good luck, Granj ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:03:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: derrida MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm not a particularly vehement detractor or defender of Derrida. If his work has fallen out of favor it is probably because of the dogmatism of some of his American proteges. Deconstructionists were accused (rightly so) of not playing fair in their polemics. Anyone that opposed them became a sort of naive, anti-intellectual dupe, falling back on benighted notions of the unified self. And of course, those who opposed deconstruction most adamantly ended up falling into the trap. My sense is that deconstruction played itself out in American lit-crit. This doesn't mean Derrida is not an interesting writer in the French avant-garde tradition. But the grandiloquence of claims made on his behalf doesn't really help to understand him. A few quibbles with William James Austin: "When Existentialism (earlier french poodle stuff that informed Hemingway's art, to name just one)" Hemingway (his good stuff at least) comes before Sartre, chronologically. I don't see him as particularly influenced by French existentialism. Maybe there's a connection I don't see here... "I have yet to see a sensible argrument mounted against Derrida's evaluation of the metaphysical tradition." Not to put too fine a point on it, but "sensible arguments" are part of the metaphysical tradition. That Derrida is irrefutable on his own terms does not mean that his work commands our assent, since part of this irrefutability comes as a result of his rhetorical strategy. If I don't adopt the Derridean language then I don't understand Derrida (so it is said). I have to accept his claims of "rigor," but my claims of rigor are inherently metaphysical, etc... It is not necessarily close-minded to reject this game in which Derrida gets to set all the rules. One of the most enfuriating rules is the prohibition against paraphrase. In other words, all paraphrases of Derrida's thought that detractors (and even defenders) come up with are said to be simplifications, or caricatures. This may be true in many cases! But part of intellectual argumentation is the ability to say "so what you are saying is that..." etc... You can do this profitably with Wittgenstein but not with Heidegger or Derrida. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:07:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: APRIL CONFERENCE AT SMALL PRESS TRAFFIC In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" were there tapes made of the event(s) and will they be available for classroom use at any point? md At 2:24 PM -0800 2/18/00, Jocelyn Saidenberg wrote: >Small Press Traffic Presents: >Expanding the Repertoire: Continuity and Change in African-American Writing > >APRIL 7-9, 2000 > >Friday April 7, 2000 >New College Cultural Center, 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco >6:00-7:30 p.m. Reception >7:30-9:30 p.m. Group Reading: Will Alexander, Wanda Coleman, C. S. >Giscombe, Erica Hunt, and giovanni singleton > > >Saturday April 8, 2000 >New College Cultural Center, 766 Valencia Street >Panel 1 >10:30 a.m. -12:30 p.m. >"Catch a Fire": The Role of Innovation in Contemporary Writing >What characterizes innovation, and further, what are the effects of (and >on) these characteristics when applied to various genres and cultural >contexts? Panelists will discuss the ways in which the term "innovation" >impacts critical approaches to African-American writing. >Panelists: Wanda Coleman, Nathaniel Mackey, and Harryette Mullen. >Moderator: Renee Gladman > >Panel 2 >2:00-4:00 p.m. >"Kindred": Origins of the Black Avant-Garde >Panelists will discuss innovative African-American writing from a >historical perspective by charting influences and directions, changes and >continuities. What relationships exist between avant-gardes and >mainstream literary production in the past and today? >Panelists: Erica Hunt, Mark McMorris, and Lorenzo Thomas. >Moderator: Harryette Mullen > >Group Reading >New College Theater, 777 Valencia Street >7:00-9:30 p.m. >Nathaniel Mackey, Mark McMorris, Harryette Mullen, Julie Patton, and >Lorenzo Thomas > > >Sunday, April 9, 2000 >New College Cultural Center, 766 Valencia Street > >Panel 3 >10:30 a.m.-12:30 p.m. >"Tell My Horse": Poetics of Practice >Panelists will speak directly about their work, their influences, and the >various paths that they have taken. They will also discuss the >organizations, communities, and systems of beliefs that surround them. >What are the social and political contexts for innovative writing? How >does this affect their writing and their lives? > >Panelists: Will Alexander, C.S. Giscombe, and Julie Patton. >Moderator: giovanni singleton > >All events are free and open to the public. >For more information or to volunteer please contact SPT at >center@sptraffic.org. > > > > >---------------------------------------- > >Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center >766 Valencia Street >San Francisco, CA 94110 >415/437-3454 >www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:14:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: eloquence: a defense MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Isn't the lack of eloquence being talked about here (by hyper-verbal extremely articulate people) the rhetorical simulation of a lack of eloquence? If someone were really inarticulate he or she would probably desire the ability to be more eloquent. Just like dieting to lose weight assumes the availability of a food supply. Just another perspective on this fruitful thread... Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:38:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: (strategy for) Expanding the Repertoire Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tisa, Thanks for your wonderful post. I am reminded of a dear pal who has just finished a dissertation on US/UK women's novels of the 70s, a project begun by lugging her mom's old books out of the garage whilst in 80s high school. So your sidewalk story actually makes me feel happy about the ways literature moves. Also briefly, sometime next year we here at Lucy plan to start reading for Outlet # 7 in which we are hoping to publish brief comments by currently practicing writers on historical female authors who inspire (or simply inform) them. I hope it will be a widely various group. Best, Eliz. ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine PO Box 9013, Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 01:00:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Macgregor Card Subject: oops, *28th* april = Lubasch/Sharma/Downing/Zutshi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry, a synapse misfired. Brandon Downing, Lisa Lubasch, Prageeta Sharma (and Rishi Zutshi, opening) will be reading *this* Friday, April 28th (not the 21st). Tell a friend and come out, I can vouch for these poets like none other. And we'll be over in plenty time for the Arellano/Waldrop filmfest at Fort Thunder, even offer some rides out there... --Macgregor More info, contact: Macgregor_Card@Brown.edu or Sean_Casey@Brown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:13:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Shoemaker Organization: Wake Forest University Subject: Re: impoverished poetics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick--Yes, I think we're probably not *too* far from agreement about what's going on in the poem. I'm certainly not arguing for some paraphrasable content that let's us dispose of the poem, and I like your poet/roofer speculations quite a bit. But for me, what I was saying about there being a kind of metacommentary on poetics doesn't really arouse any feeling that the poet is ab/using his subjects. It seems to me that Williams observes with precision and doesn't falsify anything to make his point. It's as if there's a parallel subject (poetics)--or perhaps a parallel *enactment* would be more accurate. I think not only Williams's stuff but poetry in general tends to do this. Sort of like the way Blake's Tyger's pulsing heart is also the pulsing rhythm of the poem itself. steve Patrick Foley wrote: > > Jonathan: > You're right of course & I oughtn't generalize so freely. There is some > good stuff out there, and it's help in sorting I wanted more than anything > else. (And I know that, I followed up on my own post in fact just to make > that very point, but that post has never appeared, oh well.) When I wrote > that post I was really annoyed. He sounded like Harold Bloom for cryin out > loud. "Let's get through the actual poem quickly here so we can get on to > the Poet's Ideas." Which brings me to . . . > > Steve: > I don't at all like saying that "Fine Work with Pitch and Copper" is ABOUT > poetry. (Well, anyway, I guess you'd say '"about"', which is fine.) I'd be > happy to say this: it's about that something from which Williams's poetry > and what he describes in that poem both spring, something I'd describe > first as a sort of attention Williams "valorizes" -- I don't know that we > can or should bring value into it at all, it's just a fact to start with. > And I'd emphasize that because we could also see something about obsession. > It's lunchtime after all. Williams was certainly driven as a writer, right? > In between patients and then another hour or more at the end of the day > before going to bed, unable _not_ to write really. So I'd say yeah, he > identifies in some sense with the roofer who has to look over the copper > not even say between courses but while still chewing. But Williams gives us > nothing else and I don't want to push any view of it too hard. He doesn't > say whether the roofer is pleased or displeased with the strip he examines, > maybe he'd had trouble with it & was still concerned, maybe he thought it > was the neatest job he'd done and wanted to revisit his triumph, maybe it > was not his work but another's, maybe a youngster & he wanted to see how > well the kid was doing, or maybe an older guy, maybe the guy who taught > him, and he just wanted to admire the other's work, there are a million > possibilities and Williams leaves them all out there. He gives us the bare > fact, man eating lunch, on his break, but looking over the work. I sense > strongly the connection with Williams own work, his own life, but that > doesn't mean this poem is ABOUT poetry. For one thing it cheapens the > roofers, makes them stage props. Maybe I'm giving Williams too much credit, > but it doesn't sound right to me, that he would drag in these men & their > way of life just to talk about himself and his aesthetics. I'm not trying > to be PC about this, its just doesn't sit with my sense of Williams. -- And > "these men" is not all, since it's an individual he singles out, and that > must be important, it's not "roofers" in the abstract, it's this one guy. > --- Maybe I'm wrong. And as you can see, I agree with Perelman to this > extent, that there is some connection made between poet and roofer. (What a > ridiculous sentence that is.) I just don't like the talk of "equating" > which it seems to me isn't necessary to make the point, and like I said, > it's too Bloomish, it makes it seem like we're done with the poem now that > we know what he was trying to say (and why he didn't just write it all out > in neat prose instead of indirectly and in poetry to boot we'll never > know). So --- we're agreed I think on the "at least partly" as you put it, > and you have nicely put "about" in quotations, just as I put a question > mark in the subject and really we're all of a mind. I think. > > But none of this tells me anything I want to know about the poem. That's my > problem, there's so little said about how this small machine made of words > actually works, how it's put together, and what exactly it does. And I > genuinely have no idea how much is possible, how much we can really > "explain". (I revisited, since this thread started, Kenner's lovely reading > of a Williams poem word-by-word in _The Pound Era_. That's a start anyway.) > > Pat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:26:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Lyrical Rock n Roll/White Collar Crime Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Thought you might dig hearing about a great NYC band, White Collar Crime, which has played a couple of gigs for my small press and has a new album out, "Death to Muzak." They're fronted by Sander Hicks, who runs Soft Skull Press, one of the best small presses out there (check SPD for titles). Sanders' lyrics are damn solid, like these from the lead song "Printed Matter": =09Love is a piece of printed matter =09anyone can say I love you=20 =09printed matter holds something that would =09never fade =09be acid free =09kind and kind of like =09the love from me =85 =09=85 But I love a third rate biography =09of Bertrand Russell =09More than=20 =09I love =09you And instead of the standard guitar, drums, bass, they swap in organ or keyboards for the guitar, with ex-Jeff Buckley bandmate Parker Kindred on drums. Real solid stuff, smacked with literary references and a social(ist) bent. Go to www.softskull.com/wcc for mp3s, lyrics, and info. Enjoy. as ever, David _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:35:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: carolyn guertin Subject: Salaries In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was wondering if I could take a poll from those of you in hiring positions at American colleges and universities... Could you please tell me what the starting salaries are (in English specifically or the humanities in general) for both contract and tenured postings at your school? Replies b/c. Thanks, Carolyn ___________________________________________________ Carolyn Guertin, Department of English, University of Alberta 3-5 Humanities Centre, Edmonton AB T6G 2E5 Canada E-Mail: cguertin@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca; Tel/FAX: 780-438-3125 Website: http://www.ualberta.ca/~cguertin/Guertin.htm Assemblage, the Online Women's Hypertext Gallery, at trAce: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/traced/guertin/assemblage.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:12:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Take a look! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! I hope Bruce won't mind that I've absconded his email list for other = purposes. If you have a couple free minutes this week, please take a look at the = media site I'm helping manage these days -- www.mediachannel.org. Along with a lot of interesting media criticism, and audio and video = features, you might like Robert Atkins report "Examining the Interface" = on our homepage. I mention this feature as he announces different = artsites you might find enjoyable. But also, because I'm trying to = develop ideas for getting experimental writing and more on this site -- = please email me with any notions once you've had a look around (check = out the Affiliated Sites directory--SPD has joined!) -- thanks! All best, Andrew Levy andrew@mediachannel.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:21:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: a Steinian prose poem by George W. In-Reply-To: <200004260518.WAA28427@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tisa Bryant" at Apr 25, 2000 10:23:43 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought some of you might enjoy. Move over Quayle, there's something meatier... -m. "I've got a reason for running. I talk about a larger goal, which is to call upon the best of America. It's part of the renewal. It's reform and renewal. Part of the renewal is a set of high standards and to remind people that the greatness of America really does depend on neighbors helping neighbors and children finding mentors. I worry. I'm very worried about, you know, the kid who just wonders whether America is meant for him. I really worry about that. And uh, so, I'm running for a reason. I'm answering this question here and the answer is, you cannot lead America to a positive tomorrow with revenge on one's mind. Revenge is so incredibly negative. And so to answer your question, I'm going to win because people sense my heart, know my sense of optimism and know where I want to lead the country. And I tease people by saying, 'A leader, you can't say, follow me the world is going to be worse.' I'm an optimistic person. I'm an inherently content person. I've got a great sense of where I want to lead and I'm comfortable with why I'm running. And, you know, the call on that speech was, beware. This is going to be a tough campaign." -- Interview with the Washington Post, March 23, 2000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:16:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Mac Low and Tardos reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came to the administrative account. - t. shaner Jackson Mac Low and Anne Tardos read/perform at KGB Bar on Monday, May 1st, 2000, 7:30 pm. 85 East 4th Street (between 2nd and 3rd Avenues, 2nd Floor) 212-505-3360 Admission is free. Sorry if you got this more than once. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:01:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: announcements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Many thanks to all of those who volunteered for last night's reading by Amiri Baraka and Cecil Taylor. As many of you know, this has been a rather tough week for us, and we really appreciated all your helping hands! David Cameron, Todd Colby, John Coletti, Brenda Coultas, Jordan Davis, Brandon Downing, Merry Fortune, Elaina Ganim, Wendy Kramer, Brendan Lorber, Ange Mlinko, Steve McNamara, Richard O'Russa, Douglas Rothschild, Sasha Watson, and Elizabeth Young (also Gary Sullivan, Tracy Blackmer & others who helped on Monday)--THANK YOU. Also, take a look at volunteer and Project archivist Elaina Ganim's sketch of Cecil Taylor during his intense 50-minute one-poem reading at http://www.poetryproject.com/annonce.html. *** Still to come this week at the Poetry Project: Tonight, Thursday, April 27th at 8 pm ELLYN MAYBE & PATRICIA SMITH (alas, Exene Cervenka has cancelled) Tomorrow, Friday, April 28th at 8 pm THE WORLD IN US: Lesbian & Gay Poetry of the Next Wave with Eileen Myles, J.D. McClatchy, Rafael Campo, Joan Larkin, Regie Cabico and many more! Saturday, April 29th at 2 pm EDWARD DORN'S GUNSLINGER: A full-reading of Edward Dorn's "anti-epic of the Wild West" by Edward Sanders, Maureen Owen, Hettie Jones, Don Byrd, Barbara Barg, Todd Colby, Kristin Prevallet, Ammiel Alcalay, Gillian McCain, Simon Pettet, and many others! (This event is FREE) *** And next week at the Poetry Project: Monday, May 1st at 8 pm Open Mike Night (sign-up at 7:30 pm) This is the last open mike of the season, so make it good and make it fast! Wednesday, May 3rd at 8 pm GEORGE STANLEY & MARTHA KING George Stanley is the author of Tete/Rouge/Pony Express Riders, You, The Stick, and Gentle Northern Summer, among other books. Martha King's most recent book, Seventeen Walking Sticks, is a cycle of poems responding to drawings by Basil King. A collection of short prose, Little Tales of Family and War, is forthcoming from Spuytin Duyvil Press. Friday, May 5th at 8 pm DANNY LAMA & THE CONVULSION CABARET The Convulsion Cabaret's "bad-boy lineup" (Village Voice) consists of drummer BILLY FICCA, a former member of the band TELEVISION; No-Wave figure JAMES CHANCE; WALTER STEDING, formerly of the DRAGON PEOPLE; poet and musician JANE LECROY, and former CBGB roadie DANNY LAMA, who has just been signed as a solo spoken-word artist for Cductive/Emusic.com. Also including poets and authors KIM ADDONIZIO and LISA GLATT. *** Public Service Announcement: Tonight--book party for Kenward Elmslie's Nightsoil and Cyberspace, published by Granary Books, 7-9 pm at Teachers and Writers, 5 Union Sq. West, 7th floor. Thursday, May 4th at 7 pm, BELLADONNA, with Marilyn Hacker, Yvette Christianse, kari edwards, and 15-minute open. Belladonna takes place at Bluestockings Women's Bookstore, 172 Allen St. between Rivington and Stanton. Call (212) 777-6028 for more information. *** Yea, it will Invent a whole new literachure which was Already There a lot of big novels will get restored in fact Everything, uh, I mean _all of it_ can be run the other way-- some of the technikalities havent been worked out for documentaries but let's face it, you could rerun I mean all of it !atencion!--Shoot a volcano, project it and See the Idea behind it sit down at the geologic conference and hear the reasons Why skip the rumble, move into the inference. Eventually you could work your way back to where it's still really dark all the way back of the Brain?! ---on the "Literate Projector," from _Gunslinger_, by Edward Dorn *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:34:55 -0700 Reply-To: nathanso@U.Arizona.EDU Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG benefit dinner (and fundraising effort) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Friday evening, May 5, POG will hold its annual benefit dinner (a serious feast). If you'd like to attend, please either print out the invitation at the bottom of this email and return it along with your check to the address indicated; or (preferable, since time is short) send me an email reply indicating how many will be in your party and the dinner choices for each diner (you can separately mail your check to the address listed on the invitation). POG needs significant profits from the dinner in order to balance our 1999-2000 budget; so we hope you'll seriously consider attending. It should be a great evening, and your contribution will definitely help POG continue making its unique contribution to the Tucson poetry and arts scene. In that vein: donations (by non-diners) are also very much needed and appreciated, and can likewise be mailed to POG member (and chef) Kali Tal at the address on the invitation flier. thanks! Tenney Nathanson for POG Delight your palate and support the arts at the same time. The Poetry Group of Tucson (better known as POG) invites you to attend a benefit dinner Friday, May 5, 2000 7:30 pm St. Philips Episcopal 4440 N. Campbell at River Road Menu Spinach Salad with Sweet & Sour Onions and Camembert Fritters Shrimp on Fancy Cheese Grits Cakes with Chayote-Corn Relish & Tomatillo Sauce Lobster & Black Bean Soup with Coriander Pesto Basil Pesto- Stuffed Chicken Breasts in a Mushroom and White Wine Sauce Il rotolo di pasta- fresh pasta rolled up with a spinach, ricotta and parmesan stuffing, served with a light bechamel sauce (vegetarian) Lemon Custard Gratine with Fresh Berries and Candied Lemon or Mexican Chocolate Cheesecake Wine will be served with each course - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $50 per person, or $90 per couple. All proceeds will go to support POG’s programs. Name: Address: Phone Number: How many in party? Would you like to make an additional donation? Amount enclosed: Please circle your choices. If you are indicating choices for a couple or a party, please make sure to indicate choices for each guest: Appetizer Main Course Dessert Spinach / Shrimp Chicken / Pasta Gratine / Cheesecake Spinach / Shrimp Chicken / Pasta Gratine / Cheesecake Make checks out to POG and mail them to Kali Tal, 2512 E. Drachman, Tucson AZ 85716. For more information contact Kali Tal at 626-0612 or kali@kalital.com. mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:18:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Norton Organization: Oracle Corporation Subject: Douglas Oliver Memorial in Paris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BF0F66245E3F8CD6E19A1D40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BF0F66245E3F8CD6E19A1D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listees: I am forwarding this note from my friend Gloria Saltman (with her permission) who attended the services. John Norton --------------BF0F66245E3F8CD6E19A1D40 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from mailsun2.us.oracle.com (mailsun2.us.oracle.com [130.35.61.114]) by usmail01.us.oracle.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03206 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:12:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Gloriasalt@aol.com Received: from inet-smtp1.oracle.com (inet-smtp1.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.57]) by mailsun2.us.oracle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29606; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by inet-smtp1.oracle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02581; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gloriasalt@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v26.7.) id d.a7.35a9bec (4330); Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:11:47 EDT Subject: Re: Sad News To: jnorton@us.oracle.com CC: hkolbe@us.oracle.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 35 Hi John-- edit as you see fit-- I hope my words will do justice to aptly depict the most remarkable memorial service which I attended tonight in honor of Doug Oliver.At the British Institute, a reference library room overflowing with well over 100 people met together at 7:30 pm for a two hour tribute. Opened by Professor Christophe Campos reading the words of Yeats the entire evening was inspirational. We should all be so lucky to lead lives as loving and full as Douglas Oliver. His wife Alice Notley shared a tale about the hospital nurse asking what religion they were and did Doug need to speak to a minister--NO- she said- we are poets.. he is agnostic..Later she realized that this did not do justice at all to Doug's spirituality and read an excerpt from Whisper Louise which Doug wrote during his illness. His brother Brian spoke as did all of his children,Kate Oliver and Bonamy Oliver-Johns, from his first,happy 20 year marriage to Jan Oliver .Also, his sons,Anselm and Edmund Berrigan , from his second happy marriage to Alice Notley, filled the room with "Well of Sorrows" and bluesy gospel recordings that Doug loved. Many colleagues and friends and students from England, France and the United States, spoke about his kindness and care as a friend, as a man and as a teacher. The man with a 'great outer gentleness and inner warpaint' who reminded us of 'the humbling necessity of poetry' and insisted on the 'existence of spirit in language' greatly impacted all those who knew him very well or even briefly. Remembered by his colleagues at the British Institute for his passion in reinvigorating the Institute and founding the Tuesday Club . A memorable conversation which usually began in a haze of cigar smoke in the staff lounge and continued for as long as two weeks, ending up in 'Le Debutante' around the corner . As his friend and colleague Mark Sholl, wondered what he would have said about his own memorial had he been able to attend, the firery energy that filled this man's life filled the room . I left feeling inspired to do much more with my life than I have done so far..... --------------BF0F66245E3F8CD6E19A1D40 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="jnorton.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for John Norton Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jnorton.vcf" begin:vcard n:Norton;John tel;fax:650-506-7357 tel;work:650-506-2834 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:IPD Alliances version:2.1 email;internet:jnorton@us.oracle.com title:Documentation Manager adr;quoted-printable:;;500 Oracle Parkway=0D=0AMail Stop 1op434;Redwood Shores;CA;94065; fn:John Norton end:vcard --------------BF0F66245E3F8CD6E19A1D40-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:55:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: eloquence: a ramble In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" and I've never understood why the fact that someone is in or out of fashion would be a reason for me to either pay attention or not pay attention -- WHATEVER any might think of Derrida and his public reception, I'd strongly recommend his book of about a year ago (or anyway, a year ago in English) _Monolingualism of the Other_ -- I used it in a seminar on the ethics of reading, but I think anyone interested in the politics of language (which wd be most poets?) would find this small book of large interest -- another good recent read was Lacoue-Labarthe's _Poetry as Experience_, which reads Celan -- I have no idea if Lacoue-Labarthe is in or out -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:27:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ramez Qureshi Subject: Baraka contact query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would someone please be so helpful as to provide me with contact info for Amira Baraka? Please B/C. Much thanks in advance, Ramez