========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:44:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: Gravity's Mirror (fwd) Comments: cc: Mary Hilton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New from primitive publications: "Gravity's Mirror" by Laynie Browne This book explores the myth and ritual of childbirth, using history and symbolic imagery to conjure emotion and thought. Through her choice of language, Ms. Browne takes us to an ancient world where pregnancy and childbirth are part of a symbolic journey, a process of growth and yearning for what is yet to come. "Gravity's Mirror", while ethereal and beautiful, is a strong and powerful commentary on our perceptions of birth. This work is part of primitive publications, a press dedicated to historically based modern writing. Cost is $5.00, or $25 for a subscription of six chapbooks. All checks should be made out to Mary Hilton. For more information, contact Mary Hilton, editor, at mhilton@aia.org. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:15:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit NEW WORK ON WEB SITE in POETS & POEMS at http://www.poetryproject.com poems by: JOHN BRADFORD JEAN DONNELLY CORAL HULL AKILAH OLIVER DOUGLAS ROTHSCHILD and new entries at the TINY PRESS CENTER *** Unfortunately, the Tiny Press Center will be taking an indefinite hiatus, so please don't send any materials for a while. We'll let you know when it's back and up and running. *** And on that note, in about 20 minutes exactly, we WILL BE CLOSED FOR THE SUMMER!!!! Have a very wonderful summer everyone. It's been a pleasure, truly. *** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 09:50:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Mudlark Flash No. 6 (2000) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NEW AND ON VIEW: Mudlark Flash No. 6 (2000) Peter Murphy | Thorough & Efficient Peter Murphy has poems in recent issues of Commonweal, Confrontation, Cortland Review, Cream City Review, and World Order, as well as in Urban Nature: Poems About Wildlife In The City published by Milkweed. He is a consultant to the Geraldine R. Dodge Foundation's poetry program and has been an educational advisor to a number of PBS television series on poetry including Fooling with Words with Bill Moyers. Murphy's series of poetry lessons for teachers is online at www.pbs.org/foolingwithwords. He teaches English and creative writing at Atlantic City High School and directs the Winter Poetry & Prose Getaway held annually in Cape May. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 10:08:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: BLACKBIRD 2/CELAN AVAILABLEE In-Reply-To: <20000627041345538.AAA250@mail.paconline.net@bertha> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Copies of BLACKBIRD 2 are still available. BLACKBIRD ia an international anthology of Art, Poetry, Prose begun in 1998 by Editor David Stone. The anthology is inspired by a poem by Paul Celan: ANREDSAM war die ein- fluglig schwebende Amsel, uber der Brandmauer, hinter Paris, droben, im Gedicht As if speaking the one- winged blackbird hovered, over the firewall, behind Paris, above, in the poem. (translation David Stone) BLACKBIRD 2 presents works by 36 artists/poets from 12 countries. Babenko, Basso, Beining, Bertrand, Blankenburg, Breuer, Bulatov, Burrus, Chirot, Damman, Dencker, Fierens, Gilder, Hansen, Hauptman, Inman, Keeney, Klassen, Knapp, Lagerwerf, Langham, Luigino, Maggi, Masnata, Mazzoni, Nordo, McKindles, Perez-Cares, Reichert, Sherarts, Vieira, Sourdin, Stone, Lopes Torres, Vermeulen, Van Sebroeck It is available from: David Stone The Carolina 112 W. University Pkwy. #1c Baltimore, MD 21210 USA email: chocozzz2@aol.com The cost is $15.00 US, plus $3.00 US for shipping and handling. BLACKBIRD 2 is published by Merle Publications, Baltimore, Maryland: 2000. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:41:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rogers Subject: Speaking the Words Festival 2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Special from Bright Hill Press/Word Thursdays, Treadwell, NY The Bright Hill Press/Word Thursdays 8th Annual Speaking the Words Poets and Writers Tour and Festival: A River of Words, will take place August 11, 12, and 13, 2000, at Bright Hill Farm, near Treadwell, in= New York=92s famed Catskill Mountain region, and at various locations throughout Delaware County including libraries, supermarkets, and other unusual venues. Events will include readings and performances by special guest writers; open readings; dead poets=92 readings; the Word and Image Art Exhibit; readings by senior citizens, the Word Thursdays Workshop kids, and the Share the Words student poets; mural-making workshops for kids; and starlit choral readings of =93Summer=94 and =93Roads=94 by t= he great American poet Amy Lowell. This year=92s featured artists include Paul Genega, poet, Stuyvesant, NY; Loss Pequeno Glazier, poet, Williamsville, NY; Dennis Nurkse, poet, Brooklyn, NY; Lidia Ramirez, playwright, New York, NY; Sharyn J. Skeeter, poet, Stamford, CT; and others. Paul Genega published =93That Fall: New and Selected Poems=94 and =93At the Tone=94 this year. He is the author of two earlier full-length collections and four chapbooks and has published hundreds of poems in periodicals in the United States and abroad. Genega has received an NEA fellowship, the =93Discovery=94/The Nation Prize, and The Lucille Medwick Award from =93The New York Quarterly.=94 He teaches at Bloomfield College, New Jersey, where he is currently Chair of the Faculty. Loss Pequeno Glazier is director of the Electronic Poetry Center (http://www.buffalo.edu) at the SUNY The EPC is a significant presence on the World Wide Web, receiving 10 million connections a year from over 90 countries. Glazier, a native of the Tejano and Mexican- American culture of south Texas, is author of the poetry collections =93Leaving Loss Glazier,=94 =93The Parts,=94 =93Small Press: An Annotated Guide,=94 and the forthcoming =93Digital Poetics=94 (University of Alabama= Press). A selection of Glazier=92s works is available at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/glazier/. Dennis Nurkse, Brooklyn=92s Poet Laureate, is the recipient of 1995 and 1984 NEA fellowships in poetry, the 1990 Whiting Writers=92 Award, the 1998 Bess Hokin Prize from Poetry/The Modern Poetry Association, and a 2000 Tanner Foundation award. His books of poetry include =93Leaving Xaia,=94 =93Voices over Water,=94 =93Shadow Wars,=94 and =93Sta= ggered Lights.=94 Forthcoming are =93The Rules of Paradise=94 and new poems in =93The New Yorker,=94 the =93Paris Review,=94 =93Poetry,=94 =93The Kenyon = Review,=94 =93TriQuarterly,=94 and other magazines. Lidia Ramirez, an award-winning playwright from Manhattan, has served as consultant to the New York State Council on the Arts Latino Writers Roundtable in May of 1999 and the NYSCA Latino Publishers Roundtable in May of 2000. Sharyn Jeanne Skeeter=92s poetry has been published in many journals and anthologies. She was fiction/poetry/book editor at =93Essence=94 and editor in chief at =93Black Elegance.=94 Recently, Sharyn has been a visi= ting assistant professor at the University of Bridgeport in Connecticut. She had a poetry segment, =93Poetry Kaleidoscope, on a National Public Radio affiliate. The Speaking the Words Poets and Writers Tour and Festival is sponsored by Bright Hill Press/Word Thursdays and funded, in part, with public funds from the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts, a state agency. Additional funded is provided by the A. O. Molinari Foundation, Stewart=92s Shops, BHP/WT members, and area businesses. For more information on the festival, including a complete schedule and directions, contact Bright Hill Press, POB 193, Treadwell, NY 13846 or email the organization at wordthur@catskill.net. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:12:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - stupid time goes nowhere & we think we just live in this stupid time & time is just stupid & we just go yesterday today tomorrow & we think we have it covered today&is&the&tomorrow&of&yesterday&today&is&the&yesterday&of&tomorrow&to- &morrow&is&the&day&after&today&yesterday&is&the&day&before&today&today&is &the&day&after&yesterday&today&is&the&day&before&tomorrow&tomorrow&today& will&be&yesterday&yesterday&today&will&be&tomorrow&yesterday&tomorrow&wil l&be&the&day&after&today&tomorrow&yesterday&will&be&the&day&before&today& more stuff like this & it is so stupid __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 19:13:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Cunningham Subject: R. Barthes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -- I'm interested in hearing whether anyone out there has some current thoughts about Roland Barthes, whether anyone has a particular passion one way of the other about him, or which poets are still reading him at all. Although in a sense I'm asking out of the blue, my question has roots in three semi-recent events for me. 1. Maybe folks caught Steve Evan's excellent piece on Barthes a few issues ago in the Poetry Project newsletter? Reconstructing from memory I recall the ending becoming rather heated and startling as it shifted to the assertion that Barthes is not being read very well, very fairly, or very seriously by poets. 2. I recently began reading Mythologies and find it really remarkable, R.B.'s sense of humor, similarity to some of Francis Ponge, and insistent class-based interpretations causing me to rethink my impressions of the later works, i.e. THE PLEASURE OF THE TEXT, SADE/FOURIER/LOYOLA and ROLAND BARTHES ON ROLAND BARTHES. These are the only three I've completely read, all of which I found less funny and not so explicitly anti-petit-bourgeoise, though not to say worse. (By the way, I've read these three books only because the used bookstore had cheap copies, which might prove a Barthian theory of my own: texts most likely to be disliked and sold are thus texts with the widest circulation are thus texts with the greatest influence). 3. About a year ago I heard Kit Robinson suggest that the theoretical enthusiasm of the Language poets circa the 1970s (excepting perhaps Watten's formalistic obsessions) came more from Barthes than from any other theorist or collection of theorists. The point came up in the context of some of the folks I've heard presumed to be among L.P.'s early influnces--Derrida, Althusser, Foucault, Gramsci, Wittgenstein. I have an abiding impression that, in the 1970s and 80s the Language Poets, whoever they may or may not have been, were assumed by much of the poetry world to have an excellent working command of continental postmodern and Marxist literary theory chiefly because their detractors didn't know much about such theories and didn't want to know much about them--i.e. the elevation of the shadowed. It is also my impression that the inflation of that particular sign still survives (especially among those who descry language poetry), even if by now some of the Language Poets have caught up to their reputations as theoretical adepts. Hope something here inspires someone to do something . . . Brent Cunningham ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 01:20:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the coming into the learning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - the coming into the learning i am d'nala d'eruza. i am here to learn the fruitful arts of prostitution and divination. i was sent to you. d'eruza sent me. d'nala sent me. i beg of you to teach me. you have knowledge i need. knowledge in the rose of virginity, the cleanliness of the organ, the turning-shaft, burial mound and sunlit ray. i have no desire but to learn. you will teach me. my life has tended towards this. d'nala nurtured me; d'eruza tendered me. i would like knowledge. i would like knowledge of perfumes and scents. i would like knowledge of ch'in and shamisen. i would like knowledge of the classic of rivers and mountains. i would like knowledge of the god of death. i would like knowledge of d'nala and d'eruza. i am alone in this. i am speechless and mute. i demand silence in my presence. there are no fears. you must teach me the ways of prostitution and divination. you must teach me the ways of men and women. i do not understand you in this line of questioning. d'nala comes to you naked. d'eruza comes to you naked. there is always some girl and always some boy. there are always children with weapons. there are always wounded. we have no reasons. we have no reasons. our soliloquy is your death. but first we must learn the ways of prostitution and shamanism. d'nala and d'eruza have come to you naked and whole. our shafts and holes are cleansed. we have fulfilled all the rites and obligations. we have prepared ourselves as best we know how. we have purchased the [lacuna] and the great storehouse [?] of clothing. we have been sent and cleansed. we are purified and untroubled. we are d'nala and d'eruza. we have come to learn the sacred paths of prostitution and shamanism. you are our fantas- ies, the clothes you exhibit, the slightest taste of skin, the edge beneath the outer sheathing, the paraphernalia of rites and prohibitions. the ritual objects and tethered animals. the sacred mats and hairs of only one color. the banners and winds. the ritual objects and tethered animals. the d'nala and d'eruza. yes, we must first learn the knowledge of prostitution and shamanism. yes, we have offered everything to you. yes, we have come a great way. yes, we are cleansed. yes, we are prepared. we have no desires of our own that enter beneath the canopy of this and any other world. we have emptied ourselves and emptied ourselves of such desires. we have emptied ourselves and emptied ourselves of inhibitions. we have emptied ourselves and emptied ourselves of fears. teach us and teach us as we have been sent and cleansed. teach us and teach us as we have come to learn the knowledge of prostitution and shamanism. our childhood is our command. __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 17:21:02 -0700 Reply-To: bill@sunbrella.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bill marsh Subject: jen ley book / lawrence upton book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit announcing the latest from PaperBrainPress: Jennifer Ley, _The Birth of Detachment_ a paper interpretation of the web installation by the same name 28 pages, 8.5x11 b/w with color covers, $5 all color edition (limited to 20, first ten signed by jen), $15 *** Lawrence Upton, _Game on a line_ eighteen visual poems and an essay b/w, 36 pages, 5x5, $5 *** for more on these and other PaperBrain books, please visit http://www.sunbrella.net/paperbrainpress/chaps.html PBrain Productions 2544 "A" Street San Diego, CA 92102 please backchannel with questions or for ordering info pbrainproductions@home.com attn: bill ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:28:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Jarnot Subject: robert duncan query Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am interested in corresponding with anyone who may have attended a creative writing workshop taught by Robert Duncan during the spring of 1975 at the University of California, Riverside. I would also like to gather information on or transcripts of papers about Robert Duncan that were presented at the conference in Orono this summer. I am collecting this material for a biography of Robert Duncan. Please backchannel me at jarnot@pipeline.com. Thanks, Lisa Jarnot ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:37:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Letter from New York Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In memorium Walter Matthau (Matuschanskayasky) (1920-2000) Matthhau comes up significantly in Aram Saroyan’s novel The Street, which is mostly about New York in the 60s; it’s a novel in which Clark Coolidge figures prominently. Matthau was Aram’s father-in-law from the time he was 15. There is a classic Jewish joke, one version of which is told about Jack Lemmon and Matthau. In the middle of a movie shoot, Matthau slips on the icy street and takes a bad fall. There is much alarm. An ambulance is called and Matthau’s head is propped up by an improvised pillow. Lemmon bends down and asks, “Walter, are you comfortable?” -- “I make a good living.” _____________________________ The Fourth of July is not only the 100th birthday of Louis Armstrong; it is also the day, in 1983, Ted Berrigan died; he was 49 years old. The good news is that Berrigan's The Sonnets will be reprinted this Fall by Penguin, in an expanded edition, with a introduction by Alice Notley and source notes for some of the poems. _________________________ While previously announced on the Poetics List, I want to recommend for any of you who may have missed it: THIS STORY IS MINE: Little Autobiographical Dictionary of Elegy, the English version of Emmanuel Hocquard's CETTE HISTOIRE EST LA MIENNE: Petit dictionaire autobiographique de l'elegie (NOTES, 1997), in a wonderful translation by Norma Cole Available from SPD and also from the publisher Instress, PO Box 3124, Saratoga, CA 95070 US$4. Checks to Leonard Brink. ____________________________ new and in progress: www.henryhills.com ___________________________ While it's not new, I just discovered that the issue of New Observations edited by Susan Bee and Mira Schor, called _Ripple Effects: Painting and Language_ is on line, complete: http://plexus.org/newobs/113/ This includes statements and work by Christian Schumann, Amy Sillman, David Reed, Jane Hammond, Rochelle Feinstein, Julia Jacquette, Pamela Wye, Kay Rosen, David Humphrey, Kenneth Goldsmith, Faith Wilding, Lucio Pozzi, Richard Tuttle, Tom Knechtel, and the editors. What is new, just announced in fact, is *M/E/A/N/I/N/G: An Anthology of Artists' Writings, Theory, and Criticism*, edited by Susan Bee and Mira Schor and due out from Duke in December. Full contents and other info at Duke web site -- http://www.dukeupress.edu (go to *Search* then type in M/E/A/N/I/N/G (with slashes) in title box) ____________________________ Conference Blues >If you're a doctor, you can get your way paid to a conference in Hawaii by >a drug company -- I think choosing to become a professor of literature >entails recognizing what it will cost you -- but it shouldn't cost us the >right to complain about it, should it? This is why I support legislation that would allow licensed poets to prescribe drugs. We need to stop complaining about our plight and begin to work on developing initiatives that will put poets more directly in the economic mainstream. ___________________________ Hey! Yo! conferees! returning from Maine spill the beans for your fellow listees __________________________ As part of his new anthology of 20th century American poetry from Oxford, Cary Nelson has been editing a series of excellent author pages for poets included in the anthology. Loss Glazier is now in the process of linking these pages to relevant EPC author pages. Take a look: http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/index.htm Meanwhile, the new two volume Library of America anthology of American Poetry is out and it is terrific, panoramic collection, well worth getting. I am planning to use the anthology in my undergraduate class in the Fall. The table of contents for volume one and two, respectively, are at: http://www.loa.org/volume.jsp?RequestID=140&s=toc http://www.loa.org/volume.jsp?RequestID=143&s=toc _______________________ The new issue of TLS (6/30/00) features Paul Quinn's "Letter from Buffalo", which, in addition to a discerning consideration of the city, includes a discussion of the Poetics Program at UB as well as the EPC. _________________________ Two new books from the Press of the State University of New York LISTENING TO READING Stephen Ratcliffe http://www.sunypress.edu/sunyp/backads/html/c45038.html POETIC EPISTEMOLOGIES Gender and Knowing in Women's Language-Oriented Writing Megan Simpson http://www.sunypress.edu/sunyp/backads/html/c44457.html ___________________________ For some time I have wanted to write a brief comment on *Unquell the Dawn Now* by Robert Kelly and Schuldt, which is most notable for Kelly's magnificent homophonic translation of Holderlin’s “Am Quell der Donau”. At a translation conference at Barnard a couple of years ago, Kelly noted that he wanted to do a completely non-comic homophonic translation, partly to show that this approach to translation doesn't need to be funny. MacPherson & co. has published an elaborately produced, color-coded, mutlipart edition, with a range of translation versions beyond Kelly's initial homophonic. All in all a valuable book for those interested in alternative modes of translation, or for that matter interest in Holderlin's poem. Full description at http://www.mcphersonco.com/document/unquell.html ______________________________________ Edmond Jabes, translated by Rosmarie Waldrop: "The ladder urges us beyond ourselves. Hence it's importance. But in a void, where do we place it?" -- Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:02:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Re: circle within the circle bathtub reading before Bernstein letter: F.Scott Fitz to Max Perkins: "No one points out how Saroyan has been influenced by Franz K afka"...his last letter to 1940..............me....i'm heading east to the mineral baths of the Hotel Gellert...DRn.... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:46:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: R. Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glad to see your post on Barthes since I did something similar on Derrida a while back. You're right that European philosophers, culture critics, etc., have been grossly misprisoned in America. Worst case is Derrida who was nearly mediated beyond recognition by many in the Yale group. It's also true that language poets early on were struggling to get a handle on the philosophy of Derrida et al. They didn't always get it right, and there are a few embarrassing misrepresentations and even contradictions in the L-A-N-G-U-A-G-E conversations and also in Content's Dream, for example. But there are two Barthes (just like there were two Wittgensteins), so I wouldn't be surprised that he has given language poets more room to move. Whatever they say or do, they can probably appeal to one Barthes or another. The first Barthes is, of course, the structuralist who, like all structuralists, inadvertently smuggles the idea of a very stable and grounding structure as center into his writing, a writing that ostensibly works against such a notion. The second, later Barthes is the one who was completely won over by Derrida, who accepted D's criticisms of structuralism, Saussure, etc. In America, as you know, ideas go in and out of fashion. In the cases of Freud and Sartre, however, at least there were cogent arguments mounted against the theories. Not so in the cases of Derrida and the later Barthes. Americans seem to have simply tired of thinking so hard, and have just moved on, generally to important but facile political concerns. In order to disprove D and later B someone has to once again posit a convincing a priori or a posteriori within language that doesn't break apart on examination--hasn't happened yet. And of course there will always be those New Critic hangovers who want to treat the poem as sealed off from everything else, as exempt from the process of intertextuality. Theory is still happening in Europe, however. Check out Kristeva's work on de Sade, Bataille. Bataille is another deviant thinker whose writing has been largely ignored or mismanaged in America. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:50:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Letter from New York MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles, from one SUNY inmate to another--GREAT JOKE! We still have lemons, but the sour is gone. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 16:51:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: R. Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brent, Yes, I do have strong feelings about Barthes, but they may not be in the=20 direction you may be going. I think Barthes is the Marrano among the French=20 intellectuals (and writers). He is a gay writer who makes absolutely no=20 references (as far as I know) to his gayness in the work published during hi= s=20 life time. His startling Moroccon journal in pursuit of boys (roughly=20 corresponding in time to his writing of "Fourrier," a Utopia of uninterrupte= d=20 pleasure) and his Paris journal (its last entry coming just before his=20 suicide) were published posthumously (in a book entitled, I think,=20 "Incidents" in English). While alive, Barthes berated the viability of the=20 journal as a writing form.=20 How does such an essential aspect of his being not creep into Barthes's=20 writing? I think in his earlier writing Barthes is the perfect well-behaved=20 boy (one should not forget, Barthes's academic background was provincial, no= t=20 100% "comme il faut"). His essays in "Mythologies" and other semiotic=20 writings are brilliant extrapolations from already established ideas. In the= m=20 he says nothing that will disturb any of his intellectual friends. Inklings of subversion in Barthes start in a few pages of "The Pleasure o= f=20 the Text," in which he confesses the chaotic, irrational pleasure he takes i= n=20 certain passages (reading Fourrier, I think) -a deep and arbitrary pleasure=20 which is the true reason why he reads these books and which has no connectio= n=20 to anything surrounding them in the text. Semiotics is a system of replete explanations. Everything is explained an= d=20 absorbed into a system of language, denying any existence outside (Barthes's= =20 book on Balzac, "S/Z," is a reductive specimen of that).=20 Barthes's confession denies the viability of this system because it=20 confesses to something outside (non-semiotic!). The boldness of these few=20 pages have essentially been ignored because they are surrounded by the usual= =20 jargon of the tribe in the rest of the book, which obfuscates it. Barthes didn't make an open break -internal and external- with his=20 academic milieu. A lot of his writing is marred by an archness which makes=20 his work a pain in the ass for me to read sometimes. Nevertheless, a=20 relatively few of his essays blaze new paths, open new possibilities. These=20 essays, which acted as sparks for my thinking and writing, are the following= :=20 "Fourrier," "Loyola," some of the essays in the book "The Responsibility of=20 Forms," particularly the ones on Eisenstein's still photographs ("The Third=20 Meaning"), on Cy Twombly ("Cy Twombly: Works on Paper"), on Ert=E9 ("Ert=E9,= or A=20 la lettre") and on the painter Arcimboldo ("Arcimboldo, or Magician and=20 Rhetoriqueur') and, for its photographs only, his "Barthes on Barthes." Bert, I suppose, for you, all these essays are "petit bourgeois." Whateve= r=20 they may be, they are radically different from his earlier writing, for whic= h=20 you seem to feel nostalgic. In the above listed essays, Barthes explores a connection between the eye= =20 and the word as a new path to perception (an essential point of his "Loyola"= =20 essay is that Loyola substitutes the eye for the ear as the primary organ of= =20 spiritual truth). Something experienced as through a conjunction between the= =20 eye and words is outside semiotics -the space where the unnameable lives.=20 Barthes sees photography as the radical medium of this new perception, what=20 he calls "the third meaning"; "the third meaning" is a Molotov cocktail he=20 throws among his academic writings. My essay, "The Peripheral Space of Photography," expands Barthes's hint=20 that photography is the radical medium of the repressed -of the=20 disenfranchized experience. For anyone interested, the essay will be=20 published by Sun & Moon's in its Green Integer series this year. In my review, " "Ed Friedman's 'Mao & Matisse': A Decorative Poetics:=20 Pleasure, Ideas and Rebellion," I explore the possibilities of decoration as= =20 a medium of philosophy, politics and poetry. The seeds of this idea are in=20 Barthes' piece on Ert=E9, how Ert=E9 turns letters into decorative objects.=20= This=20 review is appearing in the most recent issue of the webzine "Big Bridge," in= =20 the Fiction section. For anyone interested, the address is: www.bigbridge.or= g. My poem "Io's Song" is based on the necessity of the reader's involvement= =20 through his or her eye, by meditating on the relationship of words in the=20 space of the page. The reader must choose in which direction he or she will=20 move through the poem. This element of choice is also an essential element i= n=20 Loyola's spiritual meditations. A selection from "Io's Song" and my specifi= c=20 reading of it are in the Cd-Rom issue of "The Little Magazine" (volume 21). I am very happy with Brent's throwing down the gauntlet in regards to=20 Barthes, though I suspect we'll end up on the opposite sides of any=20 discussion. Nevertheless, I think Barthes is a seminal (though ambivalent)=20 figure in discussing the possibilities of any future in poetry. I hope many=20 more poets join the discussion. Murat Nemet-Nejat muratnn@aol.com =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 16:42:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Letter from New York/"Deaths Elsewhere": Vittorio Gassman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Have often wondered at the obituary nature of many poetics posts. (is there a "plot" afoot?) as was remarked of Rimbaud: "dead at twenty, buried at 37" what are the interrelationships among posthumous lives-- and posthumous poetries? sometimes for example "ars longa, vita brevis" is reversed "yesterday" in the forwarded post from "subterraneans" list below, was 29 june 2000. --db chirot > >the italian performer Vittorio Gassman died yesterday >78 old. he was a nice performer of beat poets 20 years >ago he introduced the beat poets like Gregory Corso >("Marriage") and "Coney Island" by Ferlinghetti. > >his last period of life was afflicted by a deep depression >concerning the death of human life. >some thinks he has 2 life. > >ciao. > > > >____________________________________________________________________ >Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 18:14:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: July 4th Special....circle within circle within a circle FOR SALE...Berrigan,Ted..Sonnets 1/10 h.c. inscribed to Aram Saroyan and then again....NUDEL BOOKS...at ABE..BIBLIOFIND...spare change..35G's....................Drn........................... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:21:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Re: femme In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 2:33 PM -0400 6/28/00, Richard Dillon wrote: > > > something about equality for women and men, the goal of feminism, seems to > >FemiNazism seeks to deconstruct MALE education. FemiNazism, as >Paglia employs >the term, sought and failed to force the Boy Scouts to employ male >homosexuals as troop leaders. FemiNazism, according to me, would, if it >could, reengineer the genetic code of the human species so that a JOHN WAYNE >would never again appear among us. Except of course if that FemiNazi is >Naomi Wolf and she can implant her brain into the cranium of a reengineered >John Wayne who would then be combined in a pleasing way with her boss Al >Armand Gore who could then be his own alpha man and equalize the world Yawn >but that's neither here nor there at this point. Hey, poetics list guys, I thought that the reason we had to put up with all the delays on the poetics list and other administrative hassles was because the list was Moderated. If you're going to allow us to be submitted to these endless misogynistic and homophobic attacks, then why not just make it an open list? This kind of offensiveness is uncalled for, and women and gays on the list should not have to be subjected to this. This is not about poetry. This is hate speech. It seems that all the discussion of making this the list safe place for women that E. Treadwell introduced was wasted bandwidth. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 19:45:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Attn: Boston Conf. readers / from Steve Ellis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; types="text/plain,text/html"; boundary="=====================_40347984==_.ALT" --=====================_40347984==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [Message reformatted to reduce material automatically quoted from previous posts] From: "Stephen Ellis" To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Attn: Boston Conf. readers Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 15:22:09 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Anyone planning to read at this year's Boston Poetry Conference & who would like to have something (party favors?) to give away at that event (or elsewhere, later) might be interested in the following: I will, mostly on a first-come-first-serve basis with a minor degree of editing, not necessarily toward my own "taste", publish three pages of work in broadside format (a single folded 11 x 17 sheet w/ cover design & room thus for three 8 x 11 pp. worth of work - poems, prose or a run of anything between or "outside of" those designations) under the Oasis Press imprint for anyone interested. Editions will run fifty copies, out of wch you'll get 45, 26 to be lettered and signed (or not), etcetera, if you so wish, the point being they'll be all yours, freebies, to do with as you like. Since I plan to attend the conference, I'll deliver them when I arrive. If I've never published you, please be pushy: try me; if I've published you before, don't hesitate: I will again. (There may be some exceptions, but who cares?) Oasis Press broadsides have been published since 1994, initially from Tel Aviv, Israel, continuing in Amman, Jordan; most recently issues are out of Portland, Maine; they currently number upwards of seventy, including work from Ted Enslin, Jennifer Moxley, Jordan Davis, Ray DiPalma, Jeff Gburek, Drew Gardner, Ange Mlinko, Kenneth Warren, Duncan McNaughton, Ken Irby, Kristin Prevallet, Peteris Cedrins, Richard Blevins, Thomas Meyer, Gabriel Gudding, Ed Foster, Anselm Berrigan, Patrick Durgin, Patrick Doud, Mark DuCharme, Michael Basinski, Halliday Dresser, Allen Bramhall, Brian Richards, Dale Smith, Susan Gevirtz, Jim McCrary, Tom Bridwell, Peter Ganick, David Baratier, Joe Napora & others. Upcoming issues will include Merrill Gilfillan, Bruce Andrews, Susan Schultz, Tod Thilleman, Skip Fox and Bill Sylvester, among others. So, get on the good foot and search yourself up some stamps. Direct email enquiries to me at this address, or send work to: Oasis Press c/o Stephen Ellis 23 Mitton Street Portland, ME 04102 See you later. S E --=====================_40347984==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" [Message reformatted to reduce material automatically quoted from previous posts]

From: "Stephen Ellis" <stepellis@hotmail.com>
To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Attn: Boston Conf. readers
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 15:22:09 PDT
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Anyone planning to read at this year's Boston Poetry Conference & who would
like to have something (party favors?) to give away at that event (or
elsewhere, later) might be interested in the following:

I will, mostly on a first-come-first-serve basis with a minor degree of
editing, not necessarily toward my own "taste", publish three pages of work
in broadside format (a single folded 11 x 17 sheet w/ cover design & room
thus for three 8 x 11 pp. worth of work - poems, prose or a run of anything
between or "outside of" those designations) under the Oasis Press imprint
for anyone interested.  Editions will run fifty copies, out of wch you'll
get 45, 26 to be lettered and signed (or not), etcetera, if you so wish, the
point being they'll be all yours, freebies, to do with as you like.  Since I
plan to attend the conference, I'll deliver them when I arrive.

If I've never published you, please be pushy: try me; if I've published you
before, don't hesitate: I will again.  (There may be some exceptions, but
who cares?)  Oasis Press broadsides have been published since 1994,
initially from Tel Aviv, Israel, continuing in Amman, Jordan; most recently
issues are out of Portland, Maine; they currently number upwards of seventy,
including work from Ted Enslin, Jennifer Moxley, Jordan Davis, Ray DiPalma,
Jeff Gburek, Drew Gardner, Ange Mlinko, Kenneth Warren, Duncan McNaughton,
Ken Irby, Kristin Prevallet, Peteris Cedrins, Richard Blevins, Thomas Meyer,
Gabriel Gudding, Ed Foster, Anselm Berrigan, Patrick Durgin, Patrick Doud,
Mark DuCharme, Michael Basinski, Halliday Dresser, Allen Bramhall, Brian
Richards, Dale Smith, Susan Gevirtz, Jim McCrary, Tom Bridwell, Peter
Ganick, David Baratier, Joe Napora & others.  Upcoming issues will include

Merrill Gilfillan, Bruce Andrews, Susan Schultz, Tod Thilleman, Skip Fox and
Bill Sylvester, among others.  So,

get on the good foot and search yourself up some stamps.

Direct email enquiries to me at this address, or send work to:
Oasis Press
c/o Stephen Ellis
23 Mitton Street
Portland, ME 04102

See you later.
S E


 --=====================_40347984==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 19:45:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: Letter from New York / from Tony Green Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; types="text/plain,text/html"; boundary="=====================_40344812==_.ALT" --=====================_40344812==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [Message reformatted to reduce material automatically quoted from previous post.] From: "Tony Green" Subject: Re: Letter from New York Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 10:45:17 +1200 I really appreciate the renaming of homophonic translation as mutlipart -- but I suspect this is a typo for Mutt Lip Art best Tony >For some time I have wanted to write a brief comment on *Unquell the Dawn Now* >by Robert Kelly and Schuldt, which is most notable for Kelly's magnificent >homophonic translation of Holderlin’s “Am Quell der Donau”. At a translation >conference at Barnard a couple of years ago, Kelly noted that he wanted to do a >completely non-comic homophonic translation, partly to show that this approach >to translation doesn't need to be funny. MacPherson & co. has published an >elaborately produced, color-coded, mutlipart edition, with a range of >translation versions beyond Kelly's initial homophonic. All in all a valuable >book for those interested in alternative modes of translation, or for that >matter interest in Holderlin's poem. Full description at >http://www.mcphersonco.com/document/unquell.html > --=====================_40344812==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" [Message reformatted to reduce material automatically quoted from previous post.]

From: "Tony Green" <tgreen@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re:      Letter from New York
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 10:45:17 +1200

I really appreciate the renaming of homophonic translation as mutlipart  --
but I suspect this is a typo for Mutt Lip Art

best
Tony

>For some time I have wanted to write a brief comment on *Unquell the Dawn
Now*
>by Robert Kelly and Schuldt, which is most notable for Kelly's magnificent
>homophonic translation of  Holderlin’s “Am Quell der Donau”. At a
translation
>conference at Barnard a couple of years ago, Kelly noted that he wanted to
do a
>completely non-comic homophonic translation, partly to show that this
approach
>to translation doesn't need to be funny. MacPherson & co. has published an
>elaborately produced, color-coded, mutlipart edition, with a range of
>translation versions beyond Kelly's initial homophonic. All in all a
valuable
>book for those interested in alternative modes of translation, or for that
>matter interest in Holderlin's poem. Full description at
>http://www.mcphersonco.com/document/unquell.html
>
 --=====================_40344812==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 20:35:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: High Speed Talk - please circulate (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Apologies for cross-posting - Alan This is from the trAce online writing community, which is holding a conference called Incubation next week in Nottingham, England - and on the Net. The subtitle is "A trAce International Conference on Writing and the Internet." We are hosting a live chat as well as a Webboard (chat board) for discussion - please visit and join if you have the time and inclin- ation. Thanks, Alan (sondheim@panix.com) ___ (from Sue Thomas, director trAce) TrAce has opened a temporary board for Incubation, the conference on Writing & the Internet taking place in Nottingham, UK, from 10-12 July 00. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/~incubation Hosted by Alan Sondheim, it is a place for quick-fire talk and includes a live discussion on Tuesday 11th July from 21.30-22.30pm BST to which all are invited to contribute. The live discussion forms a 'scratch' conference organised for Incubation where delegates are invited to contribute a 5 minute position paper. In a feat of human strength and agility we will attempt to scribe these discussions into a chatroom and convey your responses back. Flesh to flesh via the wires. Perhaps it will all be too much and our minds will explode, or maybe we will just have a very fast conversation. So if you want to take part at a leisurely pace, log on to http://hum-webboard.ntu.ac.uk/~incubation and get involved in the discussions. You can subscribe by email to each individual conference if you prefer. But if you want to type dangerously, or watch others twisting themselves into knots trying to be flesh and virtual at the same time, join IRC channel #Incubation at hum-webboard.ntu.ac.uk:7000 or log on to http://hum-webboard.ntu.ac.uk/~incubation and click Chat on Tuesday 11th July at 21.30 BST for some high speed talk moderated and provoked by Alan Sondheim. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 20:14:32 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: R. Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/3/00 2:28:08 PM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << Brent, Yes, I do have strong feelings about Barthes, but they may not be in the direction you may be going. I think Barthes is the Marrano among the French intellectuals (and writers). He is a gay writer who makes absolutely no references (as far as I know) to his gayness in the work published during his life time. His startling Moroccon journal in pursuit of boys (roughly corresponding in time to his writing of "Fourrier," a Utopia of uninterrupted pleasure) and his Paris journal (its last entry coming just before his suicide) were published posthumously (in a book entitled, I think, "Incidents" in English). While alive, Barthes berated the viability of the journal as a writing form. How does such an essential aspect of his being not creep into Barthes's writing? I think in his earlier writing Barthes is the perfect well-behaved boy (one should not forget, Barthes's academic background was provincial, not 100% "comme il faut"). His essays in "Mythologies" and other semiotic writings are brilliant extrapolations from already established ideas. In them he says nothing that will disturb any of his intellectual friends. Inklings of subversion in Barthes start in a few pages of "The Pleasure of the Text," in which he confesses the chaotic, irrational pleasure he takes in certain passages (reading Fourrier, I think) -a deep and arbitrary pleasure which is the true reason why he reads these books and which has no connection to anything surrounding them in the text. Semiotics is a system of replete explanations. Everything is explained and absorbed into a system of language, denying any existence outside (Barthes's book on Balzac, "S/Z," is a reductive specimen of that). >> I know Murat's commentary was meant for you, Brent, but if I may chime in. I have enormous respect for Murat's productions and do not intend to agree or disagree with him here. But I do wish to point out that love, whether homo or hetero, does not escape conceptualization for us. Love is a subsemiotics within the larger field of language. It is a word, an idea. The chemistry such as it is only becomes known to us with the field. One might suggest, in fact, that where hetero love conceals the operation of differance (not escaping it, of course) homo eroticism/love is perhaps more evocative of the unity that is disunity (iteration and all that). So in that sense the pursuits of Barthes, Foucault, Derrida--the writing--"intertexts" with the homo erotic all the time. No need for Barthes to focus on the subject, unless he wants to--and he generally didn't want to for reasons Murat no doubt has identified correctly. Different time, different dangers. Still I don't quite get how anyone can know which intellectuals will or will not be disturbed by anything anyone says. That's reaching I think. But Murat knows his stuff. oh well. Take care. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 17:56:50 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: femme Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I agree, it IS hate speech. It also has an element of unconscious irony some might find almost deliciously ridiculous. But then, how far should one be "allowed" to go - and I'm not referring to Mr. Dillon, here, but rather to one purporting to be "moderating" a List - in a glossary use of insult in order to reach a "satisfying" level of ironic enjoyment? I mean, free speech being clearly out, or at least outre, why is this guy still on the list? Kent's posts were at least witty, engaging and topical, as were in fact most usually those of Gabriel Gudding. So what about Dillon's post - what's "significant" enough about hate speech that it deserves in any sense Equal Time - with anybody? Yeah, I know, use the "delete" button. Okay. But maybe Dillon should be in some wise encouraged to go vent instead to his barber ... S E >From: Dodie Bellamy >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: femme >Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:21:27 -0700 > >At 2:33 PM -0400 6/28/00, Richard Dillon wrote: >> >> > something about equality for women and men, the goal of feminism, seems >>to >> >FemiNazism seeks to deconstruct MALE education. FemiNazism, as >>Paglia employs >>the term, sought and failed to force the Boy Scouts to employ male >>homosexuals as troop leaders. FemiNazism, according to me, would, if it >>could, reengineer the genetic code of the human species so that a JOHN >>WAYNE >>would never again appear among us. Except of course if that FemiNazi is >>Naomi Wolf and she can implant her brain into the cranium of a >>reengineered >>John Wayne who would then be combined in a pleasing way with her boss Al >>Armand Gore who could then be his own alpha man and equalize the world >>Yawn >>but that's neither here nor there at this point. > >Hey, poetics list guys, I thought that the reason we had to put up >with all the delays on the poetics list and other administrative >hassles was because the list was Moderated. If you're going to allow >us to be submitted to these endless misogynistic and homophobic >attacks, then why not just make it an open list? > >This kind of offensiveness is uncalled for, and women and gays on the >list should not have to be subjected to this. This is not about >poetry. This is hate speech. It seems that all the discussion of >making this the list safe place for women that E. Treadwell >introduced was wasted bandwidth. > >Dodie ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 21:05:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: femme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/3/00 4:12:36 PM, dbkk@SIRIUS.COM writes: << Hey, poetics list guys, I thought that the reason we had to put up with all the delays on the poetics list and other administrative hassles was because the list was Moderated. If you're going to allow us to be submitted to these endless misogynistic and homophobic attacks, then why not just make it an open list? This kind of offensiveness is uncalled for, and women and gays on the list should not have to be subjected to this. This is not about poetry. This is hate speech. It seems that all the discussion of making this the list safe place for women that E. Treadwell introduced was wasted bandwidth. Dodie >> Sigh! Haven't we been down this road? No censorship!! The comments Dodie references may be everything she says they are, but if the commentators are muscled into silence, we all lose. The only sort of list, or society, worth having is an open one. This is a good list, warts and all. And we all know that aesthetic considerations suggest ideological ones. Imagine! Shielding artists from an imperfect world! Personally I like to know these guys are out there, if they are, and they are. Safety?!!? What good is the ole' false sense of security, when it's FALSE? Art has never been about comfort--not meaningful, experimental, rock the boat art, anyway. And you never know; it's possible that when someone accuses Hillary of causing Gulliani's prostate cancer (cuckoo!), someone else will think twice about the company he keeps. Maybe not. Up to him. Poetics anyone? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 21:41:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: femme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/3/00 7:12:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dbkk@SIRIUS.COM writes: > Hey, poetics list guys, I thought that the reason we had to put up > with all the delays on the poetics list and other administrative > hassles was because the list was Moderated. If you're going to allow > us to be submitted to these endless misogynistic and homophobic > attacks, then why not just make it an open list? > > This kind of offensiveness is uncalled for, and women and gays on the > list should not have to be subjected to this. This is not about > poetry. This is hate speech. It seems that all the discussion of > making this the list safe place for women that E. Treadwell > introduced was wasted bandwidth. > > Dodie > Yes. Strange that this viciousness is tolerated while Kent Johnson is removed for expressing a preference for somebody other than Langpo's. What is that all about? GT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 20:52:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: femme In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dodie: don't be exclusive! ("and women and gays on the list should not have to be subjected to this") Sheriff Dillon is aiming at every body-- "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die" --Johnny Cash --dbc On Mon, 3 Jul 2000, Dodie Bellamy wrote: > At 2:33 PM -0400 6/28/00, Richard Dillon wrote: > > > > > something about equality for women and men, the goal of feminism, seems to > > >FemiNazism seeks to deconstruct MALE education. FemiNazism, as > >Paglia employs > >the term, sought and failed to force the Boy Scouts to employ male > >homosexuals as troop leaders. FemiNazism, according to me, would, if it > >could, reengineer the genetic code of the human species so that a JOHN WAYNE > >would never again appear among us. Except of course if that FemiNazi is > >Naomi Wolf and she can implant her brain into the cranium of a reengineered > >John Wayne who would then be combined in a pleasing way with her boss Al > >Armand Gore who could then be his own alpha man and equalize the world Yawn > >but that's neither here nor there at this point. > > Hey, poetics list guys, I thought that the reason we had to put up > with all the delays on the poetics list and other administrative > hassles was because the list was Moderated. If you're going to allow > us to be submitted to these endless misogynistic and homophobic > attacks, then why not just make it an open list? > > This kind of offensiveness is uncalled for, and women and gays on the > list should not have to be subjected to this. This is not about > poetry. This is hate speech. It seems that all the discussion of > making this the list safe place for women that E. Treadwell > introduced was wasted bandwidth. > > Dodie > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:31:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: R. Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brent, In that Barthes wants to stop taking things for granted, wanting to bracket or suspend considerations of their function, and concentrate rather on what they mean and how they function as signs, makes him essential to our work. After all, isn't our work the questioning of the observable, the manifest, the taking a closer look at that which gets taken for granted, bringing to awareness what we're in the main unaware of? Yes, I believe his work still can figure into ours. Best, Gerald ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 06:26:06 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "T. R. Healy and L. MacMahon" Subject: New from Wild Honey Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apologies for cross posting. I 'd like to announce the publication of _For the Fallen_ by Richard Caddel. ISBN 1 903090 22 9 by Wild Honey Press, 16a Ballyman Road, Bray, County Wicklow, Ireland. Some review copies are available. Let me know if you're interested. The book is 40pp in length, deskjet printed and hand sewn in a card cover with a colour illustration. £3.50/$5.00 in price (mastercard and Visa accepted, or U.S. customers please use currency) Cheques made out to Randolph Healy A poem in 100 sections, _For the Fallen_ is Richard Caddel's radical re-reading of Aneirin's Old Welsh poem _Y Goddodin_ done in memory of his (Caddel's) son Tom. 1 I claim in the song place not from doorway one earth poetry is now parted 45 I'm droning dreary and dry I'm loose and I'm this-ways walking I'm widow-wilt in your head I am wire eagle with them with news along the way then dulled duelled and broken amid more yen when was Merlin a courteous pen price in words was a shallow shaman try where a big gun was brandished during when and why my son went 82 alone at the end alone lost heir of ragweed in rough seed in the crowsnest in the frighteners burnt whiteness of drunkenness and bright talk nothing warmed in grieving in snowstorm a story told story so eager of fair anger keener the danger ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 02:03:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: femme In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hate speech? No more than your speech when you start to inquire into the presumed conservative political affiliations of the women on femmesoul.com. You just can't take effective satire. As your colleague told me, "Get used to it." You just can't fathom writers who might be inspired by a Patriotism you reject in your quest for a One World Socialist Government paid for until their broke by American Taxpayers who do not understand your deconstruction of their culture poetry. And Jonathan Swift practiced "hate speech." And William Burroughs, my old associate from Naropa, practiced "hate speech." As well as Camille Paglia. What you prefer is that Ventriloquist Dummy alpha male, Dan "The Frequency" Rather. What you prefer is the hate speech you like to hear: Anne Waldman's beauty salon quartet deconstructions of the male gender and paeans to hermaphroditism. If the shoe fits, the shoe fits. I didn't hire Naomi Wolf to teach A. Armand ("The Hammer") Gore how to give away the Panama Canal, our nuclear weapons secrets, super anthracite coal reserves in Utah, the George Washington One Dollar Bill while winning the women's vote. (Actually he's losing the women's vote because most women know the score, and the score is that Gore's a loser because GORE WANTS TO WIN BY TELLING YOU WANT HE THINKS YOU WANT TO HEAR, which means that if he wrote poetry, satire, jokes, literary criticism, ecological "Mail Bomber" philosophy, you would be rooting him on. Look, you do not have to read the posts this reporter launches. Your problem is that they make good reading. : > From: Dodie Bellamy > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:21:27 -0700 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: femme > > At 2:33 PM -0400 6/28/00, Richard Dillon wrote: >> >>> something about equality for women and men, the goal of feminism, seems to >>> FemiNazism seeks to deconstruct MALE education. FemiNazism, as >> Paglia employs >> the term, sought and failed to force the Boy Scouts to employ male >> homosexuals as troop leaders. FemiNazism, according to me, would, if it >> could, reengineer the genetic code of the human species so that a JOHN WAYNE >> would never again appear among us. Except of course if that FemiNazi is >> Naomi Wolf and she can implant her brain into the cranium of a reengineered >> John Wayne who would then be combined in a pleasing way with her boss Al >> Armand Gore who could then be his own alpha man and equalize the world Yawn >> but that's neither here nor there at this point. > > Hey, poetics list guys, I thought that the reason we had to put up > with all the delays on the poetics list and other administrative > hassles was because the list was Moderated. If you're going to allow > us to be submitted to these endless misogynistic and homophobic > attacks, then why not just make it an open list? > > This kind of offensiveness is uncalled for, and women and gays on the > list should not have to be subjected to this. This is not about > poetry. This is hate speech. It seems that all the discussion of > making this the list safe place for women that E. Treadwell > introduced was wasted bandwidth. > > Dodie > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:28:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Letter from New York In-Reply-To: <4.0.1.20000613225842.011362d0@pop.bway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >In memorium >Walter Matthau (Matuschanskayasky) (1920-2000) > >Matthhau comes up significantly in Aram Saroyan=EDs novel The Street, which= is >mostly about New York in the 60s; it=EDs a novel in which Clark Coolidge fi= gures prominently. Matthau was Aram=EDs father-in-law from the time he was 15. The way I heard it was that he was his step-father. -- George Bowering =46ax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 05:44:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Massey Subject: Re: femme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/3/2000 6:12:36 PM Central Daylight Time, dbkk@SIRIUS.COM writes: << This kind of offensiveness is uncalled for, and women and gays on the list should not have to be subjected to this. >> Occasionally I'm offended by the LANG cliques on the list I wouldn't ask that they be silenced You can't price "offensiveness" / You're only fattening Big Brother ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 23:55:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Maine conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. - T. Shaner --On Tuesday, July 04, 2000, 9:05 AM -0400 "Matt Richardson" wrote: > This note is in reply to Charles' query re NPF conference at Maine. As i > wuz there for only the first couple of days of it, i can only speak to > that. But that time was eventful. > > Michael Davidson and Marjorie Perloff gave plenaries the first night. > Marjorie's was primarily on Jasper Johns, and Michael's was on Larry > Eigner's poetics of the body. Both were very satisfying, even though > technological difficulties created difficulties for both. Also, Amiri > Baraka gave a reading of some poetry. He performed wonderfully but a > recently composed, and shockingly vicious, poem about Guliani he probably > should have edited out. > > I was on an Asbhery panel the next morning that Marjorie chaired with a few > other young critics. It was well attended and seemed successful. I > discussed the link between Ashbery's particular commitment to surrealism > and the citational qualities of his poetry. (This is part of a larger > project currently entitled _The Poetics of Citation_ that deals primarily > with A. and, well, you Charles, including the modernist forms of citation > in Eliot and Pound.) Mark Silverberg gave an intriguing and quite > entertaining paper on Ashbery's appropriation of Ella Wheeler Wilcox in the > poem containing her name from _The Double Dream of Spring_. Mark connected > Ashbery's use of Wilcox in that poem to Susan Sontag's theory of camp. And > Jacques Debrot offered a psychoanalytic reading of Ashbery's _Tennis Court > Oath_ that revealed both Ashbery's homosexual subject position and his > critique of conventional heterosexuality. > > There were many panels that somehow or other involved either Ginsberg or > Baraka or both, and these were often a source of some tension in the > conference, especially the second night at Barret Watten's plenary. Watten > gave a presentation on the Berkeley free speech movement, entitled "The > Turn to Language after the 1960s," that discussed the radical politics of > the sixties in light of Laclau's theories of hegemony, with particular > attention to Ginsberg. Baraka attended this reading and finally lashed out > at Watten for being a "hyper-rational pseudo-radical" and for "pimping" > radical politics for his own academic benefit. I'd like to hear more from > others about how and whether some of this played itself out in later > moments of the conference. > > Poetry readings were also given, during this time, by Ted Enslin, Nathaniel > Tarn, Toby Olson, Frank Davey, David Bromige and Keith Waldrop. David's > and Keith's readings were especially memorable to me, full of all sorts of > loving antics. > > I'd like to hear from others about what I unfortunately missed, especially > the following: Bob Perelman's, Albert Gelpi's and Charles Altieri's > respective plenaries; readings by George Bowering, Rosmarie Waldrop, and > John Wieners; and the staged reading of Baraka's _Dutchman_ directed by > Carla Harryman. > > MR > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 10:12:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: femme In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i agree w/ dodie, though i'd just been disgustedly deleting, wanting to preserve at least a shred of goodwill toward those who were sending these posts ( i.e. if i didn't read it, maybe they hadn't really said it). but i am amazed that this is going on. please take your discussions backchannel, or desist. At 3:21 PM -0700 7/3/00, Dodie Bellamy wrote: >At 2:33 PM -0400 6/28/00, Richard Dillon wrote: >> >> > something about equality for women and men, the goal of feminism, seems to >> >FemiNazism seeks to deconstruct MALE education. FemiNazism, as >>Paglia employs >>the term, sought and failed to force the Boy Scouts to employ male >>homosexuals as troop leaders. FemiNazism, according to me, would, if it >>could, reengineer the genetic code of the human species so that a JOHN WAYNE >>would never again appear among us. Except of course if that FemiNazi is >>Naomi Wolf and she can implant her brain into the cranium of a reengineered >>John Wayne who would then be combined in a pleasing way with her boss Al >>Armand Gore who could then be his own alpha man and equalize the world Yawn >>but that's neither here nor there at this point. > >Hey, poetics list guys, I thought that the reason we had to put up >with all the delays on the poetics list and other administrative >hassles was because the list was Moderated. If you're going to allow >us to be submitted to these endless misogynistic and homophobic >attacks, then why not just make it an open list? > >This kind of offensiveness is uncalled for, and women and gays on the >list should not have to be subjected to this. This is not about >poetry. This is hate speech. It seems that all the discussion of >making this the list safe place for women that E. Treadwell >introduced was wasted bandwidth. > >Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 00:55:37 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@sirius.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@sirius.com" Subject: contact inquiry Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Looking for current email for Ben Friedlander. any help appreciated - b/c best. Thanks, David Buuck ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 07:45:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ramez Qureshi Subject: Orono contact info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have contact info fir the organizers of the Orono conference on canonizing the '60's. Much thanx, Ramez ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:37:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Loss =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peque=F1o?= Glazier Subject: E-POETRY, 2001: An International Digital Poetry Festival Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable e-poetry 2001 An International Digital Poetry Festival April 18-21, 2001, Buffalo, New York, USA ------------------------------------------------------ Dear List Member, I'd like to announce an exciting event to be held in Buffalo in Spring,= 2001. "E-POETRY, 2001: An International Digital Poetry Festival" will be the first convocation of digital poets and artists to focus on the state of art of digital poetry. The conference will bring together practitioners who have never before appeared together in the same program. We expect participants from countries such as Brazil, the UK, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, Norway, Russia, Japan, and Australia, in addition to Canada and the U.S. The festival will focus on works in networked and programmable media, kinetic/visual works, hypertext, and multiple practices in digital media. Featured poets will read, perform, and exhibit works that currently define= the state of the art in digital poetries. An emphasis will be made on presenting internationally influential practitioners whose contributions have yet to be publicly recognized in the US. This will be the first presentation of such works in this range and depth in a single venue.=20 The festival will take place over three and a half days. Pre-conference= events on the afternoon of the 18th will inaugurate the conference. Then, from the 19-21st, there will be three full days of morning and afternoon panels highlighted by featured readings in the afternoons and evenings. Panels and round table discussions will provide the opportunity for digital practitioners, scholars, and electronic editors/publishers to engage in conversations on crucial, controversial, and/or critical questions about these evolving= forms. Though digital poetry has been part of other digital conferences, "E-POETRY, 2001: An International Digital Poetry Festival" promises to be an historic literary event since it will be the first festival devoted exclusively to= this emerging form of literary practice so crucial to the 21st century. We hope= it will prove a landmark literary event as well as a coming of age event for current practice of digital poetry. Please set aside these dates in your calendar and plan to join us in Buffalo for this event! Loss Peque=F1o Glazier Conference Director Director, Electronic Poetry Center Ed Taylor Executive Director just buffalo literary center ------------------------------------------------------ CALL FOR PAPERS/*READERS* Poets, digital practitioners, scholars, electronic editors/publishers, and others are invited to submit 250 word abstracts for 15-minute papers on= topics related to digital poetry for the Festival panels. *Some panels will offer additional opportunities for readings so digital poets may also= self-nominate if they wish to read.* DEADLINE for abstracts is October 1, 2000, though it will be appreciated if abstracts can be submitted earlier. Notification of accepted papers will take place on December 1, 2000. Send abstracts to epc@acsu.buffalo.edu with "ABSTRACT FOR E-POETRY 2001" in the subject line= of your message. ------------------------------------------------------ REGISTRATION Participants are asked to register at their earliest convenience. There will be no charge for conference participants except for a possible nominal= admission charge for the three evening events. Early registration is particularly helpful to us. To register send a message indicating your interest to epc@acsu.buffalo.edu with "REGISTRATION FOR E-POETRY 2001" in the subject= line of your message. ------------------------------------------------------ CONFERENCE WEB SITE Check the Conference Web Site (http://epc.buffalo.edu/e-poetry/2001/) for updates to this announcement. ------------------------------------------------------ Apologies if you receive this message more than once. Please note also that= a response from the EPC to any e-mail messages may be slower during the month= of July.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 13:49:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Who re you : a mission statement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Who are you A Mission Statement Geoffrey Gatza Automation Corp or I=20 to be more precise=20 =20 the question asked to Alice=20 the question asked by Roger Daltry=20 the question asked by everyone at some point who am I=20 am I the same I I was the last chance I checked out who I was?=20 who am me ?=20 as it still looms over our philosophers=20 minds poets hearts dreamers=20 dreams & scientists science=20 today=20 in speech theories and language technologies=20 the formation of the Voice Initiative=20 enter the enterprise of Solutions Voice Initiative Our goal is to coordinate=20 build and deploy poetic solutions with StealthWare=AE technology, and various literary methods,=20 those known and in practice=20 (and those still incubating in research stages =85=20 With the explosive growth of poetic devices=20 and the increasing demand for network access Voice Initiative was formed=20 to define specifications=20 for how works of imaginative literature=20 can be produced,=20 transmitted and received=20 to and from existing and future internet buyers and sellers=20 =09 Demand, and all that that implies =20 Currently, there are no standards in place for the Voice Initiative=20 "In today's world of pervasive literary magazines, users want a simple, fast hassle literary networking devices to connect to / with that communicates to the soul,"=20 said Morton Jackery of the IPLCNS (Internet Poetics Licensing Consortium on Narrative Systems)=20 "Through a joint collaboration, the Voice Initiative and The Inaugural Alliance (TIA) plan to eliminate the complexities of internet publishing, while providing future generations of standard compliant poetry=20 and=20 literary enabled e-products."=20 The Inaugural Alliance (TIA) plans to deliver=20 specifications and industry cooperation to build=20 cost-effective methods to deliver=20 quality works of imaginative art=20 using=20 Century Voice 21 technology=99 As additional technical specifications are created,=20 they will be submitted to the industry standards bodies=20 for consideration as open solutions to current theoretical=20 literary problems =20 The future depends on who controls the present,=20 Yeats knew this and said as much=20 One of the initial joint efforts of the Voice Initiative Alliance=20 will be to conduct highly targeted research studies to identify=20 enterprise solutions where literary devices will significantly enhance=20 and in some cases change=20 the way writers do their writing=20 Since just in time access=20 to information and computer=20 resources is readily available=20 a major competitive advantage will be to professionally license poets=20 this will be the primary focus for the Alliance As computing technologies become increasingly embedded in a range of products, speech is the one convenient, consistent and natural way people can effectively interact with one another =85=20 The human voice will become the user interface for the next generation of productivity=20 support literary technology=20 as a positive move toward standards creation =20 that facilitate the user's access to literature and literary information as= a=20 fundamental need and desire of a limited portion of the internet world =85= =20 making this=20 vision a reality=20 Licensing Procedures=20 To find out how you too can become a member of the Voice Initiative or The Inaugural Alliance (TIA) and petition our Poetic Licensing Standards Consortium (PLSC) for you too be a proud licensed poet.=20 Know you are a good poet and your work really is as good as you perceive it to be=20 Impress your contemporaries Extra credit approved by most Colleges and Universities=20 (Except USA, Canada, UK)=20 Show your mother you are doing something tangible with your life=20 =09 Read below. Only you can make the difference =85 Join Today Make a passion a career=20 Voice Initiative & The Inaugural Alliance =09 coordinates builds and deploys every literary method known with explosive growth of poetic devices increasing demand poetic network accesses. Voice Initiative was formed to define specifications for how works of imaginative literature can be produced, transmitted and received by existing and future internet markets Voice Initiative=20 N Three year membership with free subscription to Blaze =20 N Instant approval of poetic licensing from the IPLCVS accrediting board=20 N Laminated parchment license in a dura-hide folder =85 suitable for framing= =20 N Free subscription to the wide assortment of VSP internet chapbook series N Blaze t-shirt N Wallet ID card=20 N instant enrollment in the VI newsletter=20 (Membership & Licensing) $50.00 The Inaugural Alliance (TIA) =20 N Three year membership with free subscription to Blaze=20 N Free subscription to the wide assortment of VSP internet chapbook series N Consideration based upon approval from the IPLCVS accrediting standards= board=20 N Wallet ID card=20 N instant enrollment in the TIA newsletter (Membership and licensing consideration) $25.00 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:23:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: reading for kenning, 7/15, san francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please come to a benefit reading for kenning* saturday july 15, 7:00 p.m. featured readers: tisa bryant!!! renee gladman!!! lyn hejinian!!! summi kaipa!!! k. silem mohammad!!! and wura-natasha ogunji!!! m.c.: taylor brady!!! the reading will be held at canessa park gallery, 708 montgomery in san francisco (where washington, columbus, and montgomery meet). door prizes! from presses and journals including a+bend press, duration, edge, etherdome, fence, interlope, o books, pressed wafer, rhizome, roof, and standing stones. drinks! of various sorts: buy a cup for $2, fill and refill as you like kenning! past issues will be available, and subscription forms will also be available. admission: $5 no one turned away for lack of funds thanks--and we hope to see you! * in case you're not familiar w/kenning: kenning is a tri-annual newsletter publishing new and innovative poetic writing, reviews of small press publications, interviews, and more. this not-for-profit enterprise is grounded in the belief that the language arts are an essential facet of progressive social discourse. since its premier issue, in spring 1998, kenning has been independently published, without institutional support or guidance, by patrick f. durgin. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:49:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Readings--Coming in July MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich New York City July 8 Trane Devore, Amy King, Lorraine Sova July 15 Jean Lambert, Shoshana Wingate July 22 Deborah Emin, Joe Juracek, Patrick Phillips July 29 Tanya Rubbak, Lily Saint The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder, Patrick Donnelly, Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Curators Martha Rhodes, Director For additional information contact Michael Broder (212) 802-1752 The Ear Inn is an historic pub located at 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich, in Manhattan. There has been a reading series in this space for decades. Past readers include Mary Jo Bang, Laure-Anne Bosselaar, Jane Cooper, Ellen Dudley, Richard Foerster, David Lehman, Geoffrey O'Brien, Marie Ponsot, D. Nurkse, and Susan Wheeler The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of Hudson. The closest trains are the 1-2-3-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. If you wish to be removed from this list, please let me know via reply e-mail. If you know someone who would like to be added to this list, please send me their e-mail address. Thanks for helping us grow. Michael Broder ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:37:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Re: R. Barthes In-Reply-To: <98.72bcab2.269256df@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Murat - > How does such an essential aspect of his being not creep into Barthes's > writing? Say what? You don't read campiness into Mythologies? (Not to speak of the erotics of the book on love.) And double say-what on "essential aspect." Congratulations, btw, on the impending arrival of your Green Integer book - Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 21:42:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: What I saw at the Orono Conference 2000, Part I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Charles, you asked people on the Poetics List to report on the recent Orono Conference. I was there and I made a few notes. As usual, so many impressions jumbling in that I can't think about them clearly, like trying to pass out drunk but the room keeps spinning in my head. But I'll do my best. Overall I had a marvelous time and can't think of a single flaw in the arrangements or execution of this event, though I can imagine others carping (in fact, I heard some of them). Malcontents, though we always need malcontents don't we. Dodie Bellamy and I got off a plane in Portland on Wednesday, June 28, 2000, and drove a few hours North to the campus in Orono, a bucolic part of Maine so familiar from all those Stephen King novels and right past Lawndale Cemetery-the original of "Pet Sematery" & just as spooky in real life. Then we got to the registration building to "check in," you should have seen our faces when we found out we were sharing a room with Keith Tuma, Alan Golding and George Bowering! Talk about frightening! But all turned out just fine because they really meant a "suite," a form of dorm living they didn't have when I was a college boy. All was civilized and up and up. Before I knew more, it was time to repair to the greeting ceremony in the "Ornamental Gardens" of Orono where all kinds of eats were laid out on trays--hamburgers, chicken, cole slaw, potato salad, garden burgers, and the reddest hot dogs I've ever seen, that I found out were called "Maine red hot dogs" (a regional treat), though only lemonade and iced tea to drink which quashed the cocktail party atmosphere, or sedated it I guess, still the lovely pink roses of Maine, that seem to breathe salt like fish, made this very festive, etc., while we sat while various University dignitaries welcomed us. I decided then and there to compile a Fashion Report on the best and worst outfits people were wearing (so shall share with you some of my knowledge) as well as decide which panels, plenary talks, readings, etc., were good and which were ho-hum. To tell the truth, I was panicking a little because, in this garden display, I recognized only a few familiar faces and was thinking, my God, all these strangers, and probably all of them on the Poetics List with only a limited opinion of me. Shallow? Perhaps, but this was a crowd growing unruly with no cocktails and a hard look to them, like a bunch of Jack Elams thirsty for gin and blood in Once Upon a Time in the West. Then the line parted and Amiri Baraka, whom I had never met, showed his face, and the unruly mood of the crowd changed to something reverent and sheepish. He is very little, like all stars when you see them in person, little and with a big head, again, like the stars. For some reason, watching him on TV and seeing all those photos I thought he'd be a big Michael Clarke Duncan sort of fellow, but just the reverse. Anyhow, this auspicious (if tiny) beginning in this elegant country garden was only the prologue to the Conference's big drama events, as you'll see. The conference proper then moved to a long, low, tiered building called "Corbett" in which I was to spend, in the week ahead, many of my most sleepy hours ever. Don't know why, it was merely the oxygen, filtered through charcoal, would put me in a stupor every twenty minutes from which only the brilliance of what stabbed through me from on-stage woke me up like smelling salts-sometimes. The first two papers were delivered to all, Marjorie Perloff spoke with customary verve and speed through an incredibly difficult series of calculations, subtractions and speculations regarding the figures of the "Watchman" and "Spy" in the eponymous Jasper Johns painting, linking Johns' practice to that of O'Hara and Cage and causing kind of a stir by hinting that, after all is said and done, O'Hara was really a 50s kind of artist and has to make way, in retrospect, to Johns and Cage (fundamental 60s artists) in history's long cool view. The second plenary followed immediately afterwards, by Michael Davidson, who gave a talk called "Missing Larry" (Eigner) that evolved into a compassionate plea for a new "poetics of the disabled" which might someday encompass a greater understanding of how disabled people, like Eigner, who was born with cerebral palsy, work within and without the field--a paper which I found very moving but afterwards I was wondering how this poetics was really going to work and how the poetry of disabled people is different (or is it supposed to be?) from that of everyone else. So, one wanted to see this paper written down instead of trying to remember all of it with a memory as faulty as mine. But, together, this one two Perloff-Davidson punch gave a taste of the range of topics touched on at the conference--very rangy indeed, except a distinct lack of plenary sessions about women writers of the 60s--I think that Lynn Keller's paper on the early work of Rosmarie Waldrop, Kathleen Fraser, and Fanny Howe was the honorary exception--and Albert Gelpi gave one on the correspondence between Denise Levertov & Robert Duncan--not the fault of any particular speaker, but maybe indicative of the anti-feminism of the period? Also, Waldrop, Fraser and Howe are not my idea of sixties poets anyhow, but that leads me into another conundrum of Orono, the slippage-- Slippage of 60s and 70s, so that we had readings from many poets who didn't seem to be of the sixties at all, but perhaps put forth some early poems in high school or university, testing the waters so to speak, so it was all very odd and maybe a reason why the organizers seem to be tiring of the "decade" custom they have followed over the past several years? That's mere speculation on my part. Actually all through the first plenary session Dodie and I could hardly tear our eyes away from Douglas Rothschild who showed up in a guise new to us, he, the former pesky mosquito to NY Language Poetry's tetchy donkey, and now magnificently arrayed and coiffed in a retro seventies disco/leisure/high fashion series of suits and boots, slimmed down, curled up, and looking very John Leguizamo and relaxed. Aldon Nielsen gave a short, impassioned introduction to his former professor Amiri Baraka, and then the man himself took the stage, hurling through his poems, humming little music snatches, brilliantly blending monologic, lyric and "spoken word" styles with nary a pause, shouting it out, dropping to a whisper like James Brown, the crowd went nuts and once we saw Maria Damon clapping with her hands above her head we joined in resulting in standing oration for Baraka, the first of the conference. Finally, we had encountered an actual 60s poet, revolutionary fervor undimmed by time and dates and anything else. The events continued, though after so much thought I missed one session and so failed to hear "Poet of the 60s" Gene Frumkin so I still have no idea which one he was or is nor what he did either then or now. Instead we repaired for an open area of a building nearby our dorm where a bar was set up and ordered drinks hastily and ashamedly. I remember still thinking, gee, none of these people look familiar. There was to be, as every night, an open reading with conference attendees who could sign up as belatedly as five minutes before, and we encountered our fellow Californian K. Silem Mohammad, anxious perhaps about his reading to come, and wishing out loud that he would be able to meet two particular poets, Jacques Debrot and Michael Magee, whom he had never met except only through the portals of the internet. I looked behind me and there were Debrot and Magee, wondering aloud the exact same thing, so was able to introduce them to "Kasey" and end the suspense. Apparently they all three got on thick as thieves because for the next week you had only to look at the one to find the other two. The room started to crowd up and soon there was a long line of people snaking through the space looking for a drink. There was Asa Watten, the 13 year old son of Barrett Watten and Carla Harryman, plaintively wandering through the assemblage looking for someone to play chess with. He carried a whole chess set in his knapsack. This wasn't even remotely interesting to me, though I've been a fan of Asa's for many, many years. After an hour or so the open reading began. I can't remember everyone who read but I heard some interesting readings from a variety of poets from all over the world (very few Californians). About 1.30 a.m., feeling tired, I returned to my "suite," but I hadn't reckoned on my canny suite-mates who had slipped out, bought their own liquor, and were having a party of their own in our charming common room (just like Brideshead Revisited!) -- I snapped a photo of the party then went to bed, however after about 20 minutes located another room a few doors down, with a big fireplace and a TV, and booted the rascals out into this room so I could try to sleep, and that was only Wednesday. -- Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:38:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pattie McCarthy Subject: new from BeautifulSwimmer Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. Here's a bunch of new(s) from BeautifulSwimmer Press. We are pleased to announce 2 new chapbook publications : : --four o'clock pocket chiming, by Jenn McCreary --New Mannerist Tricycle, by Lisa Jarnot & Bill Luoma & Rod Smith [Each title is $7 (+$1 shipping). See below for package deal info.] _four o'clock pocket chiming_ is an ekphrastic surrealist series of poems; printed on 80 lb. Poseidon White paper; with an 85 lb. Rhododendron Sage cover. Each cover features a hand-cut window revealing a vellum inside-cover sheet. "if Paris were Carthage, there would have been an animal circus for the son of Septimus" _New Mannerist Tricycle_ is a minianthology of 3 serial poems by Lisa Jarnot, Bill Luoma, & Rod Smith. Jarnot's "They" poems, Luoma's "Ode," and Rod Smith's "The Spider Poems" share pages between front and back cover art by Japanese-born, New York based artist Kimura Hiroshi. _Tricycle_ is printed on 80 lb. Poseidon White paper. The cover features Hiroshi's drawings printed in white ink on 85 lb. Rhododendron Black cover stock. All BeautifulSwimmer titles are available from SPD (www.spdbooks.org) or, for bargain prices, directly from BeautifulSwimmer Press (BeautSwim@aol.com or www.durationpress.com/bswimmer). Single titles : $7; Any 2 titles : $12; Any 4 titles : $22; All 6 titles : $30. (Please add $1 shipping for a single title, $2 for multiple titles.) Make checks payable to Pattie McCarthy (not to BeautifulSwimmer). also available from BSP : : : --ROMA, by Gregg Biglieri --postcards, by Barbara Cole --RENGA: Draft 32, by Rachel Blau DuPlessis --O (excerpts), by Cole Swensen Thank you very much for your time & support. & apologies for any cross-posting. yours, Pattie McCarthy & Kevin Varrone - - - - - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 09:55:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: A volunteer? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avec Books seeks a volunteer to layout a book in Pagemaker 6.5 (saved down to 6.0) for the Mac. The book is prose, and in Word files, so it will be a relatively easy job. The files could be sent as attachments in Word or RTF. Thank you, Cydney Chadwick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:28:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: address query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" does anyone have an edress or phone #s for tony lopez and/or peter middleton in the UK? backchannel please, w/in the next few days. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:30:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: Fwd: Canessa Park Readings July 2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Canessa Park Reading Series > 708 Montgomery St. San Francisco, CA > > Two Readings in July > > Saturday, July 15th, 7:00 p.m. > > a special benefit reading for Kenning > > Featuring: Lyn Hejinian; Renee Gladman; K. Silem > Mohammad > Summi Kaipa; Tisa Bryant; Wura-Natasha Ogunji > > And, your m.c. for the evening: Taylor Brady. > > Admission / donation-at-the-door is a mere $5.00. > Wine, Beer, and sodas > will be available with the purchase of a cup at > $2.00. Recent issues of > Kenning will be available for browsing and purchase. > Take one home for > $6.00 a copy. A subscription form / guest book will > be set out so that > you may enlist. And, door prizes a-plenty from > gracious donors to the > event, > such as: O Books, Interlope magazine, Fence > magazine, a+bend Chapbooks, > Edge Books, Roof Books, Pressed Wafer Magazine, > Rhizome Magazine, and > others. > > No one will be turned away at the door for lack of > funds. Each and every > cent gathered in the course of the evening will be > used to meet the costs > of producing and distributing future issues of > Kenning. If you would like > further information on Kenning, please direct your > web browser to > www.durationpress.com/kenning OR, if you would like > to point yourself or > someone else to the information in this email > message, direct your web > browser to www.avalon.net/~kenning/benefit.html > > Your support of Kenning is heartily appreciated. - > Patrick F. Durgin > > > Tuesday, July 28th, 7:30 pm > > George Albon, Jocelyn Saidenberg, Heather Thomas > > George Albon's latest book Thousands Count Out Loud > (lyric&, 2000) is hot > off the press. He is the author of Transit Rock > (Duration Books, 1999), > Reading Pole > (Seeing Eye, 1999) and Empire Life (Littoral Books, > 1998). His work has > appeared in > Hambone, O anthology, Talisman, New American Writing > and elsewhere. > He lives and works in San Francisco. > > Jocelyn Saidenberg is the author of Mortal City > (Parentheses Writing Series, 1998) and an editor of > KRUPSKAYA, a > collective, small press in San Francicso. Her work > has appeared recently > in Mirage4Period(ical), Primary Writing, Clamour, > and Outlet. > > Heather Thomas's new book Practicing Amnesia > (Singing Horse Press: 2000) > is just out. She is the author of two previous > volumes of poetry: Circus > Freex > (Pine Press, 1995) and Voiceunders (Texture Press, > 1993). She is a > professor > of creative writing and Literature at Kutztown > University, and co-edits the > journal 6ix. > She lives in Reading, Pennsylvania. > > Admission is $5 > > See you there... > Avery E. D. Burns > Literary Director Canessa Park __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 20:53:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Mudlark | Law | Baptism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NEW AND ON VIEW: Mudlark No. 14 (2000) Sarah Law | The Baptism of the Neophytes Sarah Law lives in Norwich, England. She has been published in various magazines including Big Allis No. 8 (focussing on British writers). Her first full-length collection, Bliss Tangle, was published by Stride in 1999. Forthcoming publications include pieces in Poetry Lab and Pretext Vol. 2, both anthologies produced by the University of East Anglia, and future editions of Fire magazine. Sarah Law read English at Pembroke College, Cambridge, and has a Ph.D. from Queen Mary and Westfield College, London, on the influence of mysticism in modernist women writers. She is currently researching the medieval mystics, working in a bookshop, and teaching creative writing. Author's Note: The Baptism of the Neophytes is a collection of poems based on the Renaissance art of Venice and Florence. Since I bought a lot of postcards during my visit there, the writing is inspired by postcard-sized glimpses, and the density and uniform length of the poems reflect this. The poems are intended to stand both as individual pieces exploring the nature of spirituality, art, and love, and to form a single, slowly-spiralling contemplation of these themes. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 16:59:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: R. Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII brent, as soon as i saw the first few lines of yr post i thot of the steve evans essay, so i'm glad you had it in mind as well. i've not read barthes for at least five years, and when i did it was chiefly mythologies, s/z, writing degree zero, with some dabbling in pleasure of the text and a lover's discourse. so i'm not going to be very good on the specifics. what interests me about the evans piece, and it ties in with the kit robinson claim you restated to the effect that "the theoretical enthusiasm of the Language poets circa the 1970s (excepting perhaps Watten's formalistic obsessions) came more from Barthes than from any other theorist or collection of theorists," is that evans makes a similar claim and links it specifically to silliman's use of "the dwelling place," a phrase taken from WDZ, for the title of his early mini-anthology of some of the soon-to-be-known-as language poets in 1975. evans writes that "Silliman's references to Writing Degree Zero announce something like the advent of Barthes's impact on American avant-garde poetry, an impact soon to reverberate throughout the extended poetic community" (PPN, feb/march 2000, p.11). now first off, and i think you were suggesting this, brent, different theorists played different roles for different poets. thus where wittgenstein and cavell might be important for bernstein, you may in turn have barthes important for silliman, derrida and lacan for mccaffery, etc. what i think is curious about the claims of robinson and evans (aside from the need for actual demonstrations of the "reverberating impact" i.e. who was reading what when and how was it informing their practice) is the fact that the barthes of WDZ is, as i suggested at a recent talk i gave in buffalo, the early Barthes, the Marxist and, I would argue, even phenomenological Barthes (there are suggestions of Blanchot throughout this work, and the notion of "la demeure" has decidedly Heideggerian resonances), not the post-structuralist Barthes who would be popularized for the "Death of the Author" and the pleasure of the text. and here i would take exception to bill austin's periodization of barthes' oeuvre as being marked by a structuralist/poststructuralist binary. S/Z is the perfect undoing of that binary: what could be more structuralist than to break down every phrase of a short story and assign it a place in one of five "codes"? then, as you read, you find yourself, or i found myself at least, questioning barthes' taxonomy: hey, i thought he was gonna make this phrase part of the hermeneutic code and instead he's made it proairetic! thus, what could be more poststructuralist than to find out that structures are arbitrary! plus, this "dwelling place" is, for barthes, something arising out of "modern" french literature, which for him stems back to the 19th century and culminates in the nouveau roman. this is a rather different trajectory from the one staked out by the language-centered project, with its appeals to alternative anglo modernisms (stein, zukofsky), russian futurism and formalism, surrealism, new american poetry, etc. thus what's surprising about silliman's invocation of barthes' "dwelling place" in 1975, for me, in terms of theory, is that while WDZ is barthes in his marxist phase, a marxist or even post-structuralist lexicon or armature is more or less absent from silliman's commentary on the work of the nine poets he gathered there (andrews, barbara baracks, coolidge, lee dejasu, dipalma, grenier, melnick, silliman, watten). in fact, it's more of a purely formalist one, following i think grenier's question from /this/ 1 about where are words most themselves. (answer, language itself, language made strange, language whose non- or perhaps sur-referential aspects have been foregrounded.) so my sense is that the "explicit" presence of "(french) theory" is something added to the language-centered project as it evolves. silliman's appeal to barthes in 1973/5 contains no dead authors, de-centered subjects, free-play of signifiers or ideological and state apparatuses; these theoretical components, along with the crucial link between referentiality and the commodity fetish, comes initially with bruce andrews (i don't have paradise and method at hand to give you dates for essays, but it makes sense the a polisci prof would have access to althusser, gramsci, frankfurt school, etc., at this time) and mccaffery (in the "politics of the referent" section of /open letter/ he edited in 1976-77 and featuring andrews, bernstein, himself, and silliman). so there's a rather small window of time we're dealing with here, and of course the history of this theory-langpo relation is yet to be written (as silliman suggests in a footnote to his essay in the last poetics journal). further, there's the actual relation versus the perceived relation by poet-detractor, academics, etc. i mean, hillis miller was dropping deleuze and derrida into his footnotes in the early 1970s like it was common knowledge. also, some of the folks working on ethnopoetics and publishing in alcheringa in the early 1970s were already quite familiar with levi-strauss and derrida. so it's all quite complicated. and fascinating. bests, t. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 21:57:23 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A few days ago I received Dodie Bellamy's post quoting a post of Richard Dillon's, which Dodie termed hate speech. I didn't save that post, not intending to reply to it, so I can't quote it or even refer to its subject line. Dodie ended up asking why we have a moderated list, with the delays inherent in that, if we are going to allow this sort of thing to get through. I have had conversations & backchannels with other list members about this exact point-- as well as the fact that the discussion, as in Dillon's post, often doesn't seem to be about poetics anymore. In the time since Dodie's post, the list has been silent. Maybe this has been due to the U.S. holiday (though I for one would have thought that reports & gossip about Orono would have filled the bandwidth, especially given the exchange that I hear happened between Amiri Baraka & Barrett Watten). But that's beside the point.... I feel a little uncomfortable siding with Dodie on this, not because I don't think it IS hate speech, but because I'm uncomfortable coming down on the side of censorship under any circumstances, whatever the "good" cause. On the other hand, I personally have seen behavior on this list that was at best offensive, and at worst detrimental to a free and open exchange of ideas. I know I've censored myself on occasion because I didn't want to make myself the target of a cheap shot, or I didn't have the energy for a debate that might turn ugly. Is this "free speech"? Ultimately a moderated list equals an EDITED exchange-- because being on this list *isn't* a right, & because anybody is free to get their opinions out by other means on the internet (or anywhere else). Most of the people I personally know on this list are lurkers. Why is that? (Well, I think I know why). All of this is what a moderated list was supposed to do something about. My intent is not to put Chris Alexander on the hot seat here. But it's impossible to raise the issue of the quality of exchange on the list, and particularly its least productive extreme, without also raising the issue of the criteria for list moderation. Chris, to his credit, has seemed to want to moderate by consensus-- & I think it's fair to say that the consensus has seemed to be when in doubt, let it through. Certainly-- & this goes to my point-- there are those who will raise the cry of censorship, loudly, if they feel list moderation has been too heavy handed. This was the situation that Charles Bernstein was put in, & I can't blame Chris Alexander for not wanting to follow in his footsteps. But on the other hand, it does seem that enough is enough. Ultimately, I think most people (including myself) are on the list to get news, to advertise their own publications or events, maybe to hear some gossip, and then lastly (if at all) to entertain a discussion of poetics with total strangers whose work, in some cases, one doesn't know. This at best makes the conversation awkward. Add to that the fact that list subscribers seem to represent a fairly diverse range of poetic viewpoints, & I think you can see where we get into trouble. The utopian possibilities for the list are, of course, the hopes that such awkwardnesses will be transcended & a real conversation, thus, take place. If poetry can never be moderate, our behavior in public spaces (including this one) should be. I (for one) haven't lost hope (yet). Mark DuCharme ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:39:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: What I saw at the Orono Conference 2000, part II Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" What I saw at the Orono Conference on Thursday, June 29, 2000 I woke up startlingly early. Breakfast, 7:00 a.m., seemed so early but then I figured, oh, if I was in my regular life I certainly would be up by 6.30, so managed to fool myself for quite a while. I crept out of my room to have a cigarette and was confronted in the hallway by an amazing number of beer bottles, empty half-pints, soda cartons and crushed plastic cups brimming with old Kool butts. The Capricorn in me rebelled and I pulled a big trash liner to one side and began cleaning up, my thoughts roiling, nervous for some reason. In ordinary life I work for a large janitorial company and in my head I could imagine the scorn and contempt with which the Orono janitors would be thinking about the poets and scholars they were cleaning up after. This was so Felix Unger of me I could hardly believe it myself, but all of a sudden a finger's tapping my shoulder and a courtly voice speaks through the gray dawn, "May I be of some assistance, young man?" Curtly I grunted, turned around and came face to face with John Wieners, whom I hadn't seen in ten years or so. "I slept like a top!" he cried out, "Then I came to my senses and wanted a smoke." He looked great. Okay, not great, but if you'd been through what he's been through you'd probably look worse. We sifted through the glass debris like a pair of rag pickers from a painting by Jean-Francois Millet. Chancing upon a disgusting bottle of Labatt Blue, Wieners paused. "This beer is Canadian-Fred Wah must be here," he deduced, growing agitated like Sherlock Holmes at the Reichenbach Falls. "I must see Fred Wah and his two children and Pauline!" He speaks a bit more slowly, haltingly, than most Bostonians I've known, but with exacerbated finality and righteousness. But also a kind of sweet demureness I've never known elsewhere. "I have a present for you," I said, hauling it out of my pocket. Have any of you seen the new book "The Blind See Only the Blind" (Pressed Wafer/Granary Books) in which 30 or 40 poets pay tribute to John Wieners? The volume climaxes with a new poem by Wieners himself, in which he waxes lyrical about forgotten stars of his youth, including the one and only Edie Adams, a blond comedienne/soubrette who long ago starred in the Broadway musicals "Wonderful Town" (1953) and "Li'l Abner" (1957). The day the "Blind" book came in the mail, Dodie and I had a chance to meet Edie Adams and we took the book to her gingerly enough and asked her to sign it "to our friend the great poet." She claimed to have known, in her Hollywood heyday, both Allen Ginsberg and Carl Sandberg ("all the burgs," she boasted) so poetry was no big thing for her. "Was John Wieners ever in San Francisco?" she cried, a tiny wrinkle crossing her forehead. "Then I met him in 1959 with Ernie!" (Ernie Kovacs, her late husband.) As this was just possible, I nodded bumptiously, showed her where to sign. I produced the book now for Wieners. "Look what she wrote, "FOR JOHN WIENERS, HOW EXCITING FOR ME, I LOVE YOUR WORK, LOVE, EDIE ADAMS, SAN FRANCISCO 2000." John held the book from different angles, peering at it above and below his face-a-main, as though it would bite him. "I thought she must be deceased!" "No, and Dodie took pictures of her signing it." "Please let me examine the shots," he begged. I showed him two which I'd tucked into the book-one shot of Adams grinning into the camera, her white powdered face bigger than the Cheshire Cat's. The other showed her querulous profile as she sat lost in thought, trying to remember the good old Hotel Wentley days I assume. "I'd like one of these, Kevin, for my own," John said. "But only one. And I can't decide which shows the sheer insouciance of Miss Adams to best advantage. May I decide later?" "We are all so excited you are here among us," I said. It's hard to talk to someone with Wieners' personality without lapsing into his particularly affected lingo-at least it's hard for a Capricorn. "Take all the time you need!" So saying I slung my garbage bag over my shoulder like Ralph Kramden and went to breakfast and a day of panels. The regular panel sessions: always or so it seemed, so many good ones all at the same time so that one was forced to make these agonizing decisions and usually they each turned out wrong. For example, the first choice was among a panel called "Echoes of the 1930s," then one on John Ashbery, a separate panel on NY School poets, a Baraka And Others panel, and one called "A sense of place." I don't know, I just figured, A sense of place sounds dull, though maybe I'm wrong. So that was out. "Echoes of the 1930s?" That was a good possibility because the abstracts of the papers sounded so intriguing and sometimes one feels, oh why go to a panel on someone like Ashbery, why not go and find out something about someone more obscure, how else will I ever learn anything? So this "Echoes" panel had papers on Ramon Guthrie, Carl Rakosi, and Thomas McGrath, poets who were still active in the 1960s tho productive as early as the 1930s, and I know a little bit about Rakosi and McGrath but nothing about Ramon Guthrie & I still don't. I wound up taking the better part of valor, by attending a panel I knew would have at least one good paper, because I had heard Lytle Shaw give a paper before and knew he'd deliver value for money, so to speak. This panel, chaired by the dapper, French-cut, exhausted Steven Evans, was on "In and Around New York," and Lytle's paper outlined the possible connections in life and in poetry between Frank O'Hara and Ezra Pound, a subject on which I had never thought it possible to write even a sentence let alone 20 minutes worth of paper. Turns out that O'Hara had written a poem on "The Pisan Cantos" and later, in a different frame of mind, a mind turned 100% towards Personalism, made Pound one of his subjects in "Biotherm"! From these two angles Lytle developed a theory that clarified the different attitudes towards audience that O'Hara and Pound each worked from. Funny that Pound wound up outliving O'Hara, who must have thought Pound such an old man when he began to write. At Orono these kinds of thoughts came to one often. I looked at the classroom we were sitting in, and remembered back to 4 years ago. This was the very classroom in which the top of my head came off after a particularly brilliant brace of O'Hara papers given by Steve (Evans) himself and by Ben Friedlander during the 50s conference. And now, as though it had been some sort of audition, both Evans and Friedlander have been hired by U Maine Orono! This must, I decided, spell good luck for Lytle Shaw! After the first panel, all spilled out into the lobby of "Corbett" Hall and drank coffee and talked about which panels and papers had been the best. All papers, or so it seemed, given by anyone named "Jonathan" had been noteworthy. (I didn't hear any Jonathans, alas, during my entire stay.) Dee Morris introduced me to Richard Quinn who, or so everyone said, had just given a great paper on Albert Ayler, John Coltrane and Amiri Baraka on the "Baraka and Others" panel. I wondered how the "Sense of Place" people had done, and then the program book told me there were two upcoming readings at 10 and at 11 by Ted Enslin, Nathaniel Tarn and Toby Olson, people one would never ordinarily get to hear in San Francisco, and this made me reflect that "Sense of Place" studies were never stronger than in Maine. In the afternoon, after lunch, I didn't have as much choice about what to see, because I had committed to chairing a panel, and so had Dodie. We both missed the "Baraka and Others II" panel, the panel on Brooks, Rukeyser and Rexroth, and the panel on Dickey, Eckman and Snyder. Again a few Jonathans took the field. The first Louis Zukofsky panel was in this slot too, and apparently this was one of the very best of the week. Dodie told me hers went very well, with Linda Russo taking off on Barrett Watten's Hettie Jones take, and Matthew Pifer giving a research-based paper on Detroit's twin streams of counterculture and revolutionary mimeo work in the 1960s (like John Sinclair). Alas, our dear Nick Lawrence did not appear due to illness, a virulent South African fever felling him, ironic since his paper was to have been called "Mimeo Fever." (He eventually did arrive at the conference, a bit frail, and some were heard to make ebola jokes.) The panel I chaired was great, even if I say so myself, for I had leapt at a chance to be the chair for a panel featuring 3 of my favorite poets, Tony Lopez, Marjorie Welish, and Kasey Mohammad on "The New York School." Welish speaks so precisely and learnedly and wittily in every sentence--some unexpected verb or adjective pins down her thought like Nabokov his butterflies. Kasey whom I now regard as one of our California homeboys did us proud by giving a very very close reading to a particular Ashbery poem I can't remember which one now (but it's the one that ends a stanza with the word "The"), and Tony Lopez brilliantly read Ted Berrigan's sequence "In the Early Morning Rain" as a way of explaining how the Sonnets were constructed, managing to inject some controversy by soundly rebutting some other recent article about Berrigan by Libbie Rifkin, an admirable scholar indeed. Afterwards Tony said ruefully, "Maybe I shouldn't have come down so hard on Rifkin, for they do say she's gorgeous." I was startled then to see Keith and Rosmarie Waldrop walking through the hallway, for their lack of interest at conferences has long been a truism of poetry, like the reclusivity of Jess or the hair of Jorie Graham. But there they were, she, with the piquant looks of a younger Luise Rainer, and the voice of Glinda the Good Witch, and he, with that freaky Charles Manson hair and beard that might scare a child, except he has the open, sweet, appealing face of one of the Teletubbies. "Why are you here?" I called to them in disbelief. Turned out they had shown up out of personal loyalty to Steve Evans and to Jennifer Moxley. The plenary sessions that evening were just as intriguing. One was by Frank Davey on "Regressive Poetics of the 1960s." Briefly he described the ways in which Canadian poetry was turned on its head in the 1960s in ways which had not entirely positive effects for its state today. Davey was part of a large Canadian contingent we were very happy to greet, as the conference this year had changed its emphasis slightly to include the formerly rebuffed or excluded Canadians, I wonder why? Anyway Frank Davey wins our Fashion Award hands down with his beautiful Haspel suit, in a lightweight cotton so highly pressed it seemed metallic, bought (or so we later learned) on the eve of a trip to India in April 1982. Barrett Watten followed Davey with a slide and video presentation about the Berkeley Free Speech riots of the mid-60s and their aftermath. This was a talk with a lot of carefully wrought argument that was wonderful to look at and listen to, but in the end it all wound up being extraordinarily personal, as though the breakdown of the revolution had resulted in one salutary effect, Watten's own graduation from UC Berkeley in 1968 and the birth of the Language Poetry movement (foretold when, asked for his opinions about some Berkeley protest march at which he was present, Allen Ginsberg thought for a minute and then began emitting a Sanskrit mantra, resulting in a perplexity and turning inside out of language that Watten, et al, were to take to even greater heights). This is the event that Matt Richardson has reported on to us on the List, in which "Baraka attended this reading and finally lashed out at Watten for being a "hyper-rational pseudo-radical" and for "pimping"radical politics for his own academic benefit." Coming in late, but carrying a whole sheaf of notes, Baraka called out from the audience to Davey and Watten, "I don't know your names, so I'll call you First Person and Second Person." He accused them of character assassination and of trashing the 60s so that their academic careers would prosper. The debate grew so heated that a conference organizer (Ben Friedlander) took the unprecedented step of scheduling an ad hoc panel in the middle of the cafeteria on another day to stage a formal debate between Watten and Baraka. But more of this later. The adrenalin high, the bar opened its doors, and happily there were Liz Willis and Kristin Prevallet who, shopping at the local IGA in Orono, came upon a display of Tab, the 1960s Coca-Cola-made soft drink to which I became addicted quite early, and which was withdrawn from sale in California about 3 years ago. And Liz and Kristin brought me a case of it, the best gift I ever had, and so I spent the remaining days of the conference quite drunk on Tab which, I understand, took its name from a NASA prototype and stands acronymically for "Totally Artificial Beverage" the way "TANG" used to mean "Totally Artificial Nutrient Group," thus completing the 60s motif (for me) through a regressive synaesthesia. And then the open reading started up and I read and Dodie read and we felt well-attended and safe, far from home, and that was Thursday, pretty much. More later. Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 02:57:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: R. Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/6/00 9:44:38 PM, oranget@GUSUN.GEORGETOWN.EDU writes: << and here i would take exception to bill austin's periodization of barthes' oeuvre as being marked by a structuralist/poststructuralist binary. S/Z is the perfect undoing of that binary: what could be more structuralist than to break down every phrase of a short story and assign it a place in one of five "codes"? then, as you read, you find yourself, or i found myself at least, questioning barthes' taxonomy: hey, i thought he was gonna make this phrase part of the hermeneutic code and instead he's made it proairetic! thus, what could be more poststructuralist than to find out that structures are arbitrary! >> I'm enjoying this. All of the posts are, well, smart and stylish. I'll rethink my position. But I don't think that the structuralist/poststructuralist division rests comfortably on the idea of the sign/structure as arbitrary. T'ain't the difference. Early structuralists such as Levi-Strauss and the precursor Saussure fiddled with that idea (and, of course, many others). The issue is if and when Barthes realized that he, like other structuralists, was operating in bad faith, smuggling into his writing that user friendly logos when he thought he was ridding us of it. Derrida's contribution to structuralism was to say, simply, "See what you did?!!?" He exposed, as we all know, Foucault's ostensible "deconstruction" of Descartes as mere reassembling and reinstatement. Foucault freaked, and attacked Derrida rather viciously. Barthes, on the other hand, saw what he did. Cheers ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:40:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: What I saw at the Orono Conference In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Killian" at Jul 5, 2000 09:42:29 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy folks, been enjoying the Orono memoirs that have been coming in. I'll let others describe the Baraka/Watten lava fire in detail but I wanted to say that, in addition to Ben F. and Maria's hugely important efforts to put together the B/W (wow that just occurred to me...) Summit, there were some other events that helped to bring the complexities of that initial exchange into light -- chief among them for me was plenary talk that Lorenzo Thomas gave (Bob Perelman began by giving a talk on Melvin Tolson which was itself a bridge-building attempt: Tolson is important, for instance, to Harryette Mullen, and Mullen knows better than anyone else, it seems to me, how to negotiate the border between reified versions of "African American Literature" and "Language Writing"; likewise someone like Nate Mackey who noted 10 years ago that works like Tolson's "tend to become margins within margins, receiving much less attention and validation than they deserve"): Thomas gave a sort of retrospective on the Black Arts movement designed in part to (quoting badly from memory here) problematize the idea that the Black Arts movement is merely "a chapter in Amiri Baraka's autobiography." What followed was an incredibly deft retelling which gave sharp focus to the social forces at work in and around the movement, itÕs creative energy, itÕs *range*, and, to steal a phrase from K Burke, "the motvies of its rhetoric" Ð Baraka, along with Askia Turre (who was also in the audience) and Larry Neal, came off as tireless, and deeply committed, strategically flexible, damn important writers. At the same time, there was an interesting, though friendly, cutting session going on with Baraka (with Watten fight already part of the Orono lore); one example (again from memory): Thomas mentioned that the Black Arts Movement was constantly in danger of being taken over by thugs: "Baraka, in his Autobiography, mentions that he thought those guys *might* be fakin their commitment to the movement...Everyone else was sure of it." I read this as a call for Baraka to fess up on this point: that his "might be" was a hedge. And again, the really incredible aspect of LorenzoÕs discussion was that moments like these didnÕt diminish BarakaÕs stature, relevance, or even position, precisely because Lorenzo had, from the beginning, described the Black Arts movement as an *improvisational collective* -- in that sense all he was doing was restoring some sense of the movements original operations: after all, the Baraka-centric telling (a mass media / academic mythology?) negelcts the fact that it was *Baraka* who came to the movement, not the other way around: as Askia Turre put it multiple times during this week, he and Larry Neal were already doing their thing in Harlem when Baraka showed up and the initial interaction, at least, involved *him* adjusting to *them* (and many others). This point was put into sharp focus for me at one of the Baraka panels on Thursday. Alicia Thompson had given a paper on Baraka, Black Arts and Coltrane; during the Q & A session she went to address a point which had just been made by a gentleman in the audience: "IÕm sorry I donÕt know your name," she said, or something to that effect. Someone in the audience said, "That's Askia Turre" Ð at which point Alicia literally screamed at the top of her lungs, like a Beatles fan ca. 1965. She had never met him and she was completely floored. Obviously for her the Black Arts movement didnÕt come down to Baraka, though as her paper indicated he was/is as important *as the others*. These moments were crucial to me after the dividing lines of the first night, though even then the lines blurred pretty quickly. Standing by the bar later that night I was talking with Lorenzo Thomas when who comes along but Baraka. Now IÕm standing with Lorenzo Thomas and Amiri Baraka, drunk off my ass and trying to concentrate so I donÕt forget anything they say! ItÕs clear immediately that what pissed off Baraka about PerloffÕs talk is his perception that that she had marched out the tired old "OÕHara was a tragic, depressive figure, like that highschool kid whose a lot of fun when heÕs drunk but is always drawing skulls in his notebook during geometry class" argument. (IÕm with Baraka on this one, as anyone who saw my paper on Saturday could tell, and itÕs worth mentioning that any "New American Poet" IÕve ever talked to, from Berkson to Shapiro to Koch, has said that the Gooch/Perloff "death-drive" Frank OÕHara theory is a bunch of hooey.) At which point the following exchange takes place: Baraka: What was she saying? Me: (sheepishly trying Ð really Ð not to demonize Marjorie) I guess she was sort of doing the "tragic Frank OÕHara." Baraka: Frank wasnÕt tragic. He just got hit by a fuckin car. [Lorenzo & I start to laugh, I pratically blow Jack Daniels through my nose] He was the funniest motherfucker I ever knew. (A Note: On Friday night I had the unfortunate experience of overhearing Perloff trying to convince Bob Perlman that Melvin Tolson was "a minor poet" Ð what does it mean for Perloff to be talking like the reincarnation of John Crowe Ransom?) On either Thursday or Friday night, I canÕt remember which, I stumbled into an argument being had by Baraka and Douglas Rothchild: Douglas had said that Shakespeare sucked (thinking, as some speculated, that this was something Baraka might like to hear?): Baraka asked him what the fuck he was talking about and whether he maybe had a screw loose, etc, then brought someone over I think (Thomas?) saying, hey comeÕere, this guy thinks Shakespeare is a bad writer! Needling him for about 10 minutes. Andrew Epstein should tell this whole story as he was there from the beginning and possibly less drunk than me. Andrew, incidentally, was one of the "thick thieves" Kevin Killian mentioned, along with myself, Jacques and Kasey Mohammad. Look for our manifesto in next monthÕs ReaderÕs Digest. The open readings were one of the big highlights for me Ð Kasey & Jacques knocked people out; Lee Ann: polymorphous Appalachian NY School jive which I can never get enough of; Kristen Prevallet gave a great reading which made me go, damn, I gotta read me some more Kristen Prevallet; Carla Harryman gave a reading which I think has already been mentioned but which, anyway, made me want to sing "for sheÕs a jolly good fellow" and made several of us say, Carla Harryman is the best Language Poet (a "major poet" Ð hah!) Mark McMorris read the wonderful "A Poem for the Love of Women" which IÕm lucky enough to be publishing in COMBO 7. He also engaged Bob Perelman late into the early morning at the final David Bromige Party Ð and this seemed to me to be an important consequence of the Baraka/Watten. To Bob's credit, (and to Bromige's and Alan Golding's and Keith Tuma's) the younger writers who were there that night were treated, I think, to an even playing field, a lot of good gossip, and some genuine negotiation that should have some effect, I hope, on the work of those present plus their friends and neighbors. I missed my good friend Kristen Gallagher, who shoulda been there. -m. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:04:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: d'trance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - d'trance 0 the violent winds and ten directions 1 but there were times i knew the way 15 when they sat upon their haunches 16 hungry ghosts without features 16 now, here's what i have to tell you! 17 at times the skin of the flayed god 19 i didn't get very much praise 20 against the background streaked with blood 23 moved them out of harms way 26 one always took one's chances 3 as if they would devour me 3 sometimes i appeared bright and shiny 30 of that which the glistened jewel 32 whose gaunt bodies and shortened arms 33 of the flayed god 33 to find ghosts and other creatures 35 fornicated and mated with surplus of progeny 37 nothing would 39 the two of them together 40 the curved jewel 40 would satisfy them and at times 41 eternally they supplicated 42 it's all about the wonder and the hunger 42 those were the days! 44 traces 48 whose way i had lost forever 5 such creatures 50 the glittered green and redding jewel 51 watching the struggle 55 of the flayed god 59 what a surprise 63 wonder with open eyes 65 the ghosts would scream and wrack the skies 71 hunger striving towards fulfillment 74 daggers and skulls to drink from 77 writing is 81 writing is the phenomenon of speech 9 the storms and draughts __ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:19:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: Canessa Correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Albon/Saidenberg/Thomas reading is tuesday the 25th at 7:30. Thanks. Avery __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 13:45:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: boston poetry conference schedule (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII One more time, with feeling...here's the most recent schedule and info. Hope to see you all there! If you have questions or want to make reservations, please email Aaron at aaron7k@hotmail.com. Thanks, Arielle 3rd Annual Boston Poetry Conference July 21-23, 2000 The Art Institute of Boston (at lesley) 700 Beacon St. Boston, MA Tickets: $7 - single readings $17 - saturday or sunday day pass $40 - weekend pass (buy tickets at the door OR reserve a spot beforehand) SCHEDULE FOR THE WEEKEND: (please feel free to pass on) JULY 21, FRIDAY 7:30 P.M.- Reading - Forrest Gander, Lee Ann Brown, Laura Mullen, Jordan Davis, Beth Anderson, Daniel Bouchard JULY 22, SATURDAY 12:00 Noon - Reading - Keith Waldrop, Marcella Durand, Katy Lederer, Arielle Greenberg, Tracy Blackmer, Ric Carfagna, Mike County, Mark Owens 2:30 P.M. - Publishing Panel - David Kirschenbaum-moderator,Booglit,NY Jill Stengel - a+bend press, SF Katy Lederer - Explosive Magazine, NY others t.b.a. 3:30 P.M. - Reading - Rosmarie Waldrop, Sheila Murphy, Michael Gizzi, Brenda Coultas, Kim Lyons, David Kirschenbaum, Edwin Torres, Anselm Berrigan 6:00 P.M. - BREAK! 8:00 P.M. - Reading - Robert Creeley, Ange Mlinko, Joseph Lease, Donna DeLa Perriere, Michael Franco July 23, SUNDAY 12:00 Noon - Reading - Jean Day, Michael Basinski, Simon Pettet, Patricia Pruitt, Jim Dunn, Wendy Kramer, Rebecca Wolff, Betsy Fagin 2:00 P.M. - "The Boston Marathon" (a reading) Heather Scott Peterson,Aaron Kiely,Sean Cole, Ruth Lepson,Bob Moore,Jacques Debrot,Prageeta Sharma, Rachel Cunningham,William Howe,Yuri Hospodar,Jill Stengel Joel Sloman,Cole Heinowitz,MacGregor Card,Brian Morrison 3:00 P.M. - BREAK! 4:00 P.M. - Poetics Presentations (Adeena Karasick, Douglas Rothschild and others) 5:00 P.M. - Reading - Gerrit Lansing, Ken Irby, Nada Gordon, Eddie Berrigan, Adeena Karasick, Mitch Highfill, Gary Sullivan, Brendan Lorber 7:30 P.M. - BREAK! 8:30 P.M. - Reading - Eileen Myles, Ed Foster, Douglas Rothschild, Diane Wald, Jim Behrle, Patrick Doud ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:11:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: femme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Look, you do not have to read the posts this reporter launches. Your > problem is that they make good reading. mr dillon, we read your posts b/c we are curious about what you are thinking. it's not that they're a good read, but that it's incredible that you could be so hateful and arrogant and blinded, and we are shocked and horrified. we read your posts because your posts are kind of like a car crash on the side of the road, and many of us fall into the category of passers-by who can't help but look. or something like that. we read your posts b/c some of us get the list in digest, and have to wade through several versions of your post as people respond to your bilious words. we read your posts because we think you might be suffering from megalomania, due to your continued insistence on posting to a list that repeatedly says it doesn't want you. we wonder what you think you're doing: saving us? informing us? so we read, looking for signs. we read your posts because we are waiting for you to say you've had it with us, that we're fools, and you're going away. we read, waiting for you to announce you've started your own list somewhere, that you'll continue your conversation elsewhere, and that whomever wishes to join you should back-channel their email address to you. waiting. reading and waiting. jill stengel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:48:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: Re: POETICS Digest (#2000-113) In-Reply-To: <200007070410.AAA08537@router2.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:09 AM 7/7/00 -0400, Dicky Dillon wrote: >And Jonathan Swift practiced "hate speech." That this simpleton has the hubris to put his puerile rantings in the same category as Swift is laughable! What a maroon. Personally, I'd like to see him r*moved from Poetics because of the simplistic, thoroughly cliched rhetoric, not because of the (supposedly controversial) political orientation -- which if done by someone with half a brain, or something original to say, might actually inspire a response. As it is, I'm just being required to waste my already-limited net reading time avoiding his misogynistic conspiracy-theory rants in the already-difficult-to-navigate (because consecutive posts run together, and because when universities are in session they are so long) digests. I suspect a lot of lurkers may be considering just throwing in the towel on Poetics because of this crap, as I am, frankly -- which may be the intent of a trolling [1] poster in the first place -- simply to destroy the existing discourse: just for giggles, or because it disagrees with his own agenda. (For those unfamiliar, "trolling" is a term on the net for posting with the sole intent of reeling in hostile reactions. The practice is right up there with "spamming" as a menace to reasonable conversation on Usenet and email lists. This Dillon character is a classic troller, in my fairly lengthy experience in net-based discussion groups. Anyone who thinks he'll engage in intelligent discussion, or go away on his own, is kidding her- or himself.) Ron Ron Henry, Editor, AUGHT ronhenry@clarityconnect.com http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:25:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: a note on list etiquette In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Having been on the list between 4 and 5 years, i have a request (and an observation)... In the last 8 months or so, messages like this one have proliferated: the poster is not incredibly well known to everyone on the list (oftern hasn't been active on it for very long) ; and they do not sign their post in any way. (tho they often say very aggressive, self-dramatizing sorts of things).... i am left to conclude that this person is, "Derbadumdoo@AOL.COM"...Which probably doesn't leave most of us any the wiser...it's no help to me, for sure. One of the problems is that e-mail address are coming to less often incorporate significant parts of a person's name; another, is the gradual seeping onto the list of the very slap-dash conventions which have long been developing on the net in general..... But for most of the list's existence, there has been a tendency for people to know who they're addressing, and to make it clear who's speaking..... i think it would be great if people who join *this* list be encouraged to adopt such a style, even tho they've learned hit-and-run reflexes elsewhere.... Just a thought. mark prejsnar @lanta POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: >In a message dated 7/3/2000 6:12:36 PM Central Daylight Time, >dbkk@SIRIUS.COM >writes: > ><< This kind of offensiveness is uncalled for, and women and gays on >the > list should not have to be subjected to this. >> > >Occasionally I'm offended by the LANG cliques on the list > >I wouldn't ask that they be silenced > >You can't price "offensiveness" / > >You're only fattening Big Brother ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 09:29:26 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: What a maroon! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In a recent post, Ron Henry used the phrase "What a maroon." I'd like to know the etymology of this saying. I know Bugs Bunny made it widely popular, but whence does it come? Is it a deliberate mispronunciation of "moron"? Is it a private thing of Tex Avery's? Anyone? John Tranter, Sydney from John Tranter Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html Ancient history - the late sixties - at http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/tranter/index.html ______________________________________________ 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:11:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Balestrieri, Peter" Subject: Two Monsters Find a New Life in the Old West MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Glenn Strange played the monster in House of Frankenstein and wound up as the bartender, Sam, on Gunsmoke. James Arness played the monster in The Thing and wound up as the marshall, Matt Dillon, on Gunsmoke. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:32:27 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Webster Schultz" Subject: Fw: Re: What I saw at the Orono Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear listees-- Since I was safely far away in Hawai`i (but wishing to the heavens I could be in Orono), I have been assigned the role of go-between...here's a message from Douglas R. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rothschild, Douglas" To: "'Susan M. Webster Schultz'" Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 1:57 PM Subject: RE: Re: What I saw at the Orono Conference got to hit this one hard on the head immediately. _______________ susan, can you post this under the heading, The Brat Talks Back. thanks. -dgls p.s. keep em comming....i'll be in over the weekend. > From: "Michael Magee" > Subject: Re: What I saw at the Orono Conference > [] Thanks to M.Magee, i know with email, the tone is lost, so in light of the recent toe to toe slugfest (i sort of re-introduced baraka to watten & sd, this is like the weigh in {they both denied it....like duh.}) i want to make it clear, that i respect the reporting & am only clarifying what i saw, as i saw it, absolutely NO criticism of Michael is indended or implied. > > (Bob Perelman began by giving a talk on Melvin Tolson which was itself a > bridge-building attempt: [] bob was totally lost in Tolson, he kept saying, Tolson wants us to read him as a modernist, so when we look at him as if he was Pound, it doesn't make sense. but bob never made it exclusively clear how Tolson's Pound was his Pound. Nor that Tolson's Modernism didn't include Eliot, or even (by 1965) any 50's O'Hara or Zukofsky or Olson {had they been made POST-Modern yet?} certainly bob quoted Tolson talking about Eliot a lot......(so?) (bob's dilemna--if i have it right--was that in pound the correspondence between encription & deciferment is direct & one to one. but Tolson become unclear when you try to see it this way.) so bob got hung up on this "impenitrability" of Tolson's text. [I suggested that one read Tolson as if some of it was Pound & some of it was O'Hara--bob rejected this. He also rejected my reading of a Whitmanian moment when Tolson seems to wag his finger at the "critic" reading the text. {perhaps bob didn't want to get wagged at?}] I didn't get the bridging though, bob never mentioned how Tolson's work was important to anyone's writing (i.e. Mullen, Mackey, Thomas, Ed Robeson (where was he?) or any of the black arts poets) > Thomas gave a sort of retrospective on the Black Arts movement designed in > part to (quoting badly from memory here) problematize the idea that the > Black Arts movement is merely "a chapter in Amiri Baraka's autobiography." > [] that's a direct quote. > > Larry Neal, [] talk about neglected ! > came off as tireless, and deeply committed, strategically flexible, damn > important writers. At the same time, there was an interesting, though > friendly, cutting session going on with Baraka; one example (again from > memory): Thomas mentioned that the Black Arts Movement was constantly in > danger of being taken over by thugs: "Baraka, in his Autobiography, > mentions that he thought those guys *might* be fakin their commitment to > the movement...Everyone else was sure of it." [] as i remember it, (from > reading the autobiography) Baraka himself says, "everyone else was sure of > it...." {i have the book over there but don't need to look.} in some ways > Lorenzo was pointing to the fact that the reach of the Black Arts movement > was so great that thugs WANTED to take it over...Like that could happen > with poetry today? > But let me point out here that Lorenzo's talk was about JAY WRIGHT & his relation to Black Arts. & also, yes the BAM was bigger than Baraka, but it was many more people than got talked about at the conference.....i was the only person to say the name Don E. Lee. I heard mention of Sonia Sanchez, but did anyone say Nikki Giovani? (i missed the panel with BAM & Coltrane, so they probably did get mentioned)....etc. > > > > Baraka: What was she saying? > > > > Me: (sheepishly trying Ð really Ð not to demonize Marjorie) > > > > (A Note: what does it mean for Perloff to be talking like the > reincarnation > > of John Crowe Ransom?) [] hey.....i thought the reincarnation of JCR was Helen Vendler's job? > > > On either Thursday or Friday night, I canÕt remember which, I stumbled > > into an argument being had by Baraka and Douglas Rothchild: Douglas had > > said that Shakespeare sucked (thinking, as some speculated, that this > was > > something Baraka might like to hear? [] oh no, as bill Luoma sd to > Brian Kim Stephans on Tuesday night, "Oh, don't ask him what he means by > that....just don't go there....(it's a long list of things, but where this > started was Askia Turre's line about brutal [inhumane] slave traders in > africa "Pretending to be Elisabethan Gentelmen" & i sd. that they get this > from Shakespeare who is inscribing racism for general consumption (i no > mention two of Lorenzo's points--is writing relational (is that the word > no notes here)--& reflects society, or is it controling (this is the > word)--that is influences society? {lorenzo made the point that censors > always see art as controling--people will see this & it will change them} > so i was on this, (arguing from both ends toward my point) if shakespeare > is as great as he is claimed to be, then he must have INFLUENCED the way > people thought, & the dude is a down & out racist. & he is standing right > at the moment of the inscription of a new kind of racism on the european > mind (hey, maybe this is why the english have been historically (i say > historically) the most racist people in the world?--everyone else only had > shakespeare in translation? so i didn't lay out the argument but, "thus i > slayeth the circumsized [or is that un?] dog"--oh that play's not about a > man who overstepped his place in the 'natural' order of things--or maybe > Caliban--perhaps a native american who tries to get book learning--figures > out he is only a cannible & slinks back to his cave--[Did shakespair know > about the native americans who had attended Oxford & returned to north > america?] wait, how bout that loving & sympathetic portrayal of > Hebrews?--enough.... > > ): Baraka asked him what the fuck he was talking about and whether he > maybe had a screw loose, etc, then brought someone over I think (Thomas?) > saying, hey comeÕere, this guy thinks Shakespeare is a bad writer! > Needling him for about 10 minutes. Andrew Epstein should tell this whole > story as he was there from the beginning and possibly less drunk than me. > [] actually, only myself & askia & baraka were there from the beginning. & i might add, baraka & askia were saying things that they take AS FACT that would light the hair of rigid white academics on fire.....similar flames to white reactions in the 50's & 60's to claims that the egyptians were black....but that is another story...baraka was making the point that shakespair was a revolutionary, & shakespair was writing to show people that the rulers were totally whack & the people should topple them. he was also making the point i didn't know what i was talking about, but as i was going I pointed out to baraka that i had read 15 plays & acted in 3 of them, to which i thought he acknowledged that i might have at least had an IDEA of what was going on. [] a final point. TWICE baraka tried to discredit me with this "he thinks shake... is shit" move. this was the first time, the second time was during the slug fest when i asked a question framed by the observation that they didn't need the riot police & tear gas in this room to prevent the studen/intellectual uprising, because the two self-stiled revolutionary leaders, instead of finding common ground from which to find a basis for action, were fighting each other. so i suggested they change direction & try to find a commonality, instead of pointing out that they disagreed, as we already knew that. Baraka's response was to "out" me as i assume "wack" to his 90% white academic audience, as a shakespear hater. i think he miscalculated though, about half of the people in the room already knew this about me. but i was glad to be able to out radical Amiri, & force him to "call out the National Guard" so to speak to silence/discredit me. [] & HEY, i read between Leanne & Carla.....& Jaques Dibro read a great Ashberry poem. but even if you didn't like it, you could have mentioned that i let everyone heckle me. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 00:29:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Massey Subject: Re: a note on list etiquette MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mark prejsnar - As far as I can tell my name (Joseph Massey) is tucked beside my e-mail address in the message. So what difference does it make that the e-mail address doesn't hint at who I am? And who cares who I am? I signed onto this list expecting some back&forth about poetry / poetics, and announcements of readings and publications. I didn't realize it was such a CLIQUE, with so much petty bullshit scattered around. Who cares about this Dillon's messages? Everyone opposed to what he has to say, and makes that opposition known on the list, has done so very passionately. They state he's doing it for attention and all the while they're soaking him in it. Personally, I'd rather read Dillon's messages than another bad poem by Alan Sondheim --- but I'm not about gagging people. Leave the Dillon posts alone, and he'll probably stop posting. Signed, Joseph Massey << Having been on the list between 4 and 5 years, i have a request (and an observation)... In the last 8 months or so, messages like this one have proliferated: the poster is not incredibly well known to everyone on the list (oftern hasn't been active on it for very long) ; and they do not sign their post in any way. (tho they often say very aggressive, self-dramatizing sorts of things).... i am left to conclude that this person is, "Derbadumdoo@AOL.COM"...Which probably doesn't leave most of us any the wiser...it's no help to me, for sure. One of the problems is that e-mail address are coming to less often incorporate significant parts of a person's name; another, is the gradual seeping onto the list of the very slap-dash conventions which have long been developing on the net in general..... But for most of the list's existence, there has been a tendency for people to know who they're addressing, and to make it clear who's speaking..... i think it would be great if people who join *this* list be encouraged to adopt such a style, even tho they've learned hit-and-run reflexes elsewhere.... Just a thought. mark prejsnar @lanta >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics In-Reply-To: <20000707045723.47096.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at such a great cost. In all senses of that word, cost-- In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" and the license plates read "Live Free or Die" The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a "reasoned discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, upward lifted eyes and the like. It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter rhetoric. The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the self-proclaimed openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum can't seem to get reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise and more noise. Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and the like. One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding the posts to others,so they, too can return the messages--and the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding back. "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" Terminal silence--or terminal overload. "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" --dbchirot ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:48:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marjorie Perloff Subject: Re: ORONO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Magee reports my talk (via Baraka) as putting down Frank O'Hara! I guess you weren't listening. I would never put down Frank and I don't buy the "death drive" theory as my book makes clear. I was making a case for Frank being different from Jasper Johns and what some of the 50s/ 60s dynamics were. Why is that a putdown? But, yes, I plead guilty on the Tolson case; does this make me an admirer of John Crowe Ransom's; I don't think so. Why these binary oppositions? Marjorie Perloff ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 08:29:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: POETICS Digest (#2000-113): Don't worry. We're almost finished with this test of the First. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20000707093209.00a95c70@mail.clarityconnect.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It all depends on whose ox is being gored. Nothing I have said is as hurtful as what happened to or said about Paula Jones. At least I answer. You contemplate the election to the Senate someone who doesn't debate, who sends factotums before you. Ron Henry is offended that I defend myself. That's interesting. All I did was to see what it would be like to rattle a cage. One has to be politically correct to carry a J. Swift card, it seems. My friends in the Special Forces risked their lives for the First Amendment so that Henry could demonstrate how I was wrong. Don't worry, Friend. Even I don't have the interest to keep on rattling this cage forever. > From: Ron Henry > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:48:45 -0400 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: POETICS Digest (#2000-113) > > At 12:09 AM 7/7/00 -0400, Dicky Dillon wrote: > >> And Jonathan Swift practiced "hate speech." > > That this simpleton has the hubris to put his puerile rantings in the same > category as Swift is laughable! What a maroon. Personally, I'd like to see > him r*moved from Poetics because of the simplistic, thoroughly cliched > rhetoric, not because of the (supposedly controversial) political > orientation -- which if done by someone with half a brain, or something > original to say, might actually inspire a response. > > As it is, I'm just being required to waste my already-limited net reading > time avoiding his misogynistic conspiracy-theory rants in the > already-difficult-to-navigate (because consecutive posts run together, and > because when universities are in session they are so long) digests. > > I suspect a lot of lurkers may be considering just throwing in the towel on > Poetics because of this crap, as I am, frankly -- which may be the intent > of a trolling [1] poster in the first place -- simply to destroy the > existing discourse: just for giggles, or because it disagrees with his own > agenda. > > (For those unfamiliar, "trolling" is a term on the net for posting with the > sole intent of reeling in hostile reactions. The practice is right up there > with "spamming" as a menace to reasonable conversation on Usenet and email > lists. This Dillon character is a classic troller, in my fairly lengthy > experience in net-based discussion groups. Anyone who thinks he'll engage > in intelligent discussion, or go away on his own, is kidding her- or himself.) > > Ron > Ron Henry, Editor, AUGHT ronhenry@clarityconnect.com > http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 07:37:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Free Speech/ Moderation & Immoderate Poetics In-Reply-To: <20000707045723.47096.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Freedom of speech means freedom from rhetoric --Umberto Ecco qted p. 24 and source cited as n. 35, p. 28 as from: "Ur-Fascism," New York Review of Books (june 22, 1995),12. in: Robert A. Sobieszek, PORTS OF ENTRY: William S. Burroughs and the Arts (Los Angeles: Los Angeles County Museum of Art, Thames and Hudson, 1996) --dbchirot ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 09:28:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics: This test of the First Amendment is nearly done. Don't fret. In-Reply-To: <20000707045723.47096.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thank you, Mark DuCharme, for speaking for the First Amendment. According to the rules of this list, what we have just been through is one of the list's purposes: an argument about politics. I have tried to employ within the limits of my ability certain poetic techniques I saw used at Naropa by Allen Ginsberg, but I came at the problem from my concept of the Right Wing. My investigative poetry is born of immersion within both communities in the country, Left and Right. I stood close for many years as Allen Ginsberg danced his "Howl." I have listened to the truth of former Clinton speechwriter and business associate Larry Nichols, the Clintons chief antagonist from Arkansas, who, six months ago had his ribs broken by unknown assailants wielding baseball bats because, as they said, he kept writing and speaking after they had told him to stop. All the best, Richard Dillon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:26:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: What I saw: Baraka, Perloff, et al In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Killian" at Jul 6, 2000 10:39:40 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again everyone, Andrew Epstein just backcaneled me about my post Baraka, Perloff and the Orono Players. If you thought my take on MarjorieÕs talk wrong, ridiculous, slanted, or just think IÕm kookoo for CocoPuffs, PLEASE READ WHATÕS BELOW: itÕs AndrewÕs correction along with my response. Ð m. Andrew Epstein sayeth: [Also, I just wanted to point out something about what you call the "Gooch/Perloff 'death-drive' O'Hara theory": I'd be careful about ascribing that position to Marjorie. If you look again, she spends a lot of time in her book on FOH dispelling that theory (much of the first chapter!): she discusses "how careful we must be not to mythologize the death of the poet. No one can know, of course, what was going on inside O'Hara's mind during the night of July 24, but it seems safe to say that if he had wanted to commit suicide,if he had 'courted death' as the myth has it, there would have been a much surer way of doing it. Being hit by a beach buggy is hardly a guarantee of instant -- or certain -- death, and indeed, as we have seen, O'Hara did not die immediately and remained conscious until the end... I think, accordingly, that it is time to forget all about Fire Island and the so-called 'killing' -- or instinctive suicide -- of Frank O'Hara. For what really matters is not the myth of the poete maudit but his work." (5). Later in the book, she comes back to this issue and again strongly argues against the notion of a sad, depressed O'Hara in the mid-1960s. Overall, isn't she just saying "he just got hit by a fucking car"? And in her presentation, all I recall that she said about the "depressed" side of O'Hara is her reading of a very depressing poem dedicated to Johns, "Clouds go soft," which she analyzes in her book in similar terms, as an Ode to Dejection, written at a time when he was sometimes depressed, but by no means always (see the discussion in the book for fuller context). I don't recall her making a larger argument about its representing O'Hara's death drive (though I must admit I wasn't totally following her talk). That's why I couldn't figure out WHY Baraka thought she was character assasinating a friend of his; I still don't really get it. (Not least because he seemed to have missed her talk entirely!).] Michael Magee respondeth: Andrew, thanks for this correction to my overzealous post, particularly re Marjorie - I had somehow completely forgotten that disavowal from Poet Among Painters. Do you mind if I post this part of your email to the list along w/ my revised comments? Here's the thing about Marjorie's talk as I remember it: however complex and nuanced Marjorie's position may be on the whole, what she did with In Memory of My Feelings in her talk was suggest that, not only were O'Hara's "selves" "ruses" but he actually did believe in the Romantic Self: that finally his chameleon act is not much different than the Romantic attempt to transcend the Ego: a tragic attempt indeed. Am I not remembering this right? It seemed to me that this was her take. And in order to do this she completely misreads the end of the poem, neglecting the complexity of the line "which I myself and singly must now kill" - "I" "myself" *and* "singly" - he's splintered the Self again (in a comic mood one might ask, "Who is Singly?"): "and save the serpent in *their* midst": there's vertigo here for sure, sadness too, but *not* tragedy. My sense was that Baraka - who, admittedly, caught only what he wanted to catch from the talk - was objecting to the sense of *restraint* -- the boxing-in O'Hara: apolitical, moody, painter-centric. And, remember Marjorier's take in PAP, which I don't think has changed: "During these years [1958-1962] [O'Hara] was especially close - both personally *and in his attitudes toward poetry* - to LeRoi Jones, who edited first Yugen and was later one of the editors at Kulchur. *Yet* O'Hara had none of the revolutionary fervor, the prophetic zeal of the Beats." Baraka isn't mentioned in any substantive way for the rest of the book, the next 200 pages. How close "in his attitudes toward poetry" could FOH have been in Marjorie's mind, given that after page 14 she drops the subject? One can say that the title reveals the specificity of her subject, her theme: but, after all, the book isn't called FRANK OÕHARA: WHEN HE WAS AMONG PAINTERS; it's implication is POET (ALWAYS) AMONG PAINTERS. (methinks too of Rivers "who started out as a jazz musician" a subject not mentioned again, not the importance of race relations to his work, unless I missed it.) As we've talked about often, Baraka is nothing if not *rhetorical* in his address; he sense something, and he intervened - it didn't matter, in a way, whether he knew what he was talking about vis a vis Perloff's talk, since all he was trying to do rhetorically, to my mind, was keep *his* Frank O'Hara in the foreground. and there you have it: an Epstein in front of a Magee behind a Perloff -m. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 06:03:48 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob Wilson Subject: Re: What I saw in Killian et al Comments: cc: posis1@msn.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Kevin Killian's Orono or elsewhere reports are awlays so rich and wry and wonderful like a more tender Hunter Thompson or Tom Wolfe on lithium and franciscan charm. I would not want to officiate the battle between Baraka and Watten but as one who has survived wheeler hall as an undergrad in post free speech days when a Milton class went up in smoke and tear gas and reaghan was bombing the free speech streets, I "can see where he is coming from." People's Park, by the way, still exists as crazed ludic space, in fact I was playing some bball on a court there just yesterday. Nobody has ever called Johnnny Mathis a language poet but he sure was great last night crooning \twelvth of never and why did I choose you with San Francisco Symphony last night-- still looking like an SF State track star or Hegel's "beautiful soul" which he foreever is I talked over Jimmy Hendrix's Red House over yonder with Detroit blues legend Johnny Bassett on the Amtrac from seattle to Portland and had a comic runin with the drummer from BB King band "but nobody can play the blues like Blind Willy Mctell" we all did agree I was glad to see Kevin Killian new work in Berkeley Poetry Review 25th Anniversary Issue now called in subtitle "A Journal of Emergent Poetics" which very well fits it a journal Josephine Miles and I started up in houses on Forest Avenue and Virginia Avenue (still there too, but more ghostly) in the post free speech days of Free Speech Kevin, you are the heir to Jack Spicer but more tender and less drunken these are the praises, Rob Wilson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 06:03:36 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Attn: Boston Conf. readers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed In response to several enquiries re: the below, I'd like to clarify a couple of things. First, if you're not reading at - or at least attending - the Boston Conference, please refrain from sending work. While the broadside series is open to all, my current focus is exclusively on those reading at the conference. If you're not reading at the conference, you're still welcome to send work, but please wait until after September 1. Second, each broadside will NOT contain the work of more than one writer; the deal is one broadside (3 pp.) per person. Third, it would be expeditious if submitted work were print-ready, or on disk, to cut down on typing time. Email submissions are okay, tho I can't be held responsible for the usual problems involved in sending work this way, ie., shifts of lineation, misreadings of quotation marks, italics & all that. For contact info, see below. Thanks, and see you there. Stephen Ellis >Anyone planning to read at this year's Boston Poetry Conference & who would >like to have something (party favors?) to give away at that event (or >elsewhere, later) might be interested in the following: > >I will, mostly on a first-come-first-serve basis with a minor degree of >editing, not necessarily toward my own "taste", publish three pages of work >in broadside format (a single folded 11 x 17 sheet w/ cover design & room >thus for three 8 x 11 pp. worth of work - poems, prose or a run of anything >between or "outside of" those designations) under the Oasis Press imprint >for anyone interested. Editions will run fifty copies, out of wch you'll >get 45, 26 to be lettered and signed (or not), etcetera, if you so wish, >the >point being they'll be all yours, freebies, to do with as you like. Since >I >plan to attend the conference, I'll deliver them when I arrive. > >If I've never published you, please be pushy: try me; if I've published you >before, don't hesitate: I will again. (There may be some exceptions, but >who cares?) Oasis Press broadsides have been published since 1994, >initially from Tel Aviv, Israel, continuing in Amman, Jordan; most recently >issues are out of Portland, Maine; they currently number upwards of >seventy, >including work from Ted Enslin, Jennifer Moxley, Jordan Davis, Ray DiPalma, >Jeff Gburek, Drew Gardner, Ange Mlinko, Kenneth Warren, Duncan McNaughton, >Ken Irby, Kristin Prevallet, Peteris Cedrins, Richard Blevins, Thomas >Meyer, >Gabriel Gudding, Ed Foster, Anselm Berrigan, Patrick Durgin, Patrick Doud, >Mark DuCharme, Michael Basinski, Halliday Dresser, Allen Bramhall, Brian >Richards, Dale Smith, Susan Gevirtz, Jim McCrary, Tom Bridwell, Peter >Ganick, David Baratier, Joe Napora & others. Upcoming issues will include > >Merrill Gilfillan, Bruce Andrews, Susan Schultz, Tod Thilleman, Skip Fox >and >Bill Sylvester, among others. So, > >get on the good foot and search yourself up some stamps. > >Direct email enquiries to me at this address, or send work to: >Oasis Press >c/o Stephen Ellis >23 Mitton Street >Portland, ME 04102 > >See you later. >S E ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 12:11:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: description In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >ADENINE, GUANINE, CYTOSINE, THYMIDINE or "Don't The Letters Just Go In Alphabetical Order?" or THE EXPERIMENT IS OVER, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS TO WRITE WITHIN OR ABOUT atggctaca ggctcccgga cgtccctgct cctggctttt ggcctgctct gcctgccctg > gcttcaagag > ggcagtgcct tcccaaccat tcccttatcc aggctttttg acaacgctag tctccgcgcc > catcgtctgc > accagctggc ctttgacacc taccaggagt ttgaagaagc ctatatccca aaggaacaga > agtattcatt > cctgcagaac ccccagacct ccctctgttt ctcagagtct attccgacac cctccaacag > ggaggaaaca > caacagaaat ccaacctaga gctgctccgc atctccctgc tgctcatcca gtcgtggctg > gagcccgtgc > agttcctcag gagtgtcttc gccaacagcc tggtgtacgg cgcctctgac agcaacgtct > atgacctcct > aaaggaccta gaggaaggca tccaaacgct gatggggagg ctggaagatg gcagcccccg > gactgggcag > atcttcaagc agacctacag caagttcgac acaaactcac acaacgatga cgcactactc > aagaactacg > ggctgctcta ctgcttcagg aaggacatgg acaaggtcga > gacattcctg cgcatcgtgc agtgccgctc tgtggagggc agctgtggct tctag > From: Bill Berkson > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 16:37:34 -0700 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: description > > Dear Dodie, > > Descriptive writing is my favorite kind, I have come to believe. My models > are as follows: > > In his novel White Mule, William Carlos Williams convincingly describes the > consciousness of an infant during a thunderstorm. > > James Schuyler -- poems like 'February' but even fantastic > narrative/descriptions like 'Milk'. Also, of course, his art writings in > 'selected' format issued by Black Sparrow: see his piece on Joe Brainard, > see in that his paragraph on the work called 'Prell.' > > John Clare - a predecessor. > > Elizabeth Bishop, poems & prose, ditto. > > Whitney Balliett -- the only writer I know who can tell you about the music > he's heard the night before, how it sounded, how it was played, like a > sportswriter (Red Smith, AJ Liebling) on a game. & it's jazz, one-time, > improvised music. Any collection of his New Yorker pieces will do -- > American Musicians is one. I like the piece on Sid Catlett, 'Big Sid." > > John McPhee -- the descriptive journalist, par excellence. Start with the > latest piece on shad fishing (it doesn't matter what you or he write(s) > about, tell your students that!) in NYorker, go back to the classic Oranges, > dip into the geology books (now under one cover). > > William Bartram. Travels. Naturalist's writings should be included; Thoreau, > Darwin. . . Pliny? > > Sei Shonagon's Pillow Book. > > Jennifer Bartlett's self-portrait in The History of the Universe. > > MFK Fisher on eating. > > Robert Smithson. Monuments of the Passaic. Mirror Travels in the Yucatan. > > Read Donald Judd on Barnett Newman in Judd's Complete Art Writings 1959-75. > I can send you this if you can't find it. Judd's art writing is all > description with wonderful flatfooted opinionating as garnish. > > Fairfield Porter is a good describer, too: Art in its Own Terms (Zoland). & > Baudelaire in his salons, & Diderot in his salons, & Henry James The > Painter's Eye. > > Edwin Denby. Two books: Looking at the Dance and Dancers, Buildings, People > in the Streets (these you can find in pb. now & then in used books stores -- > but selected writings now in print from Yale is OK. Prime essays: 'Three > Sides of Agon,' 'Dancers, buildings. . .,' 'Balanchine Choreographing'. Then > there are lots of short reviews. Have students read in Dancers, Buildings > lecture the part of about Do you see the city you live in. . . the momentary > look of Sixth Avenue and. . .? > > Raymond Chandler - first page of The Big Sleep, essential. > > Ronald Firbank Prancing Nigger and The Flower Beneath the Foot; Alain > Robbe-Grillet The Voyeur, The Erasers &c. (how does Towards a New Novel > read now?). > > Kerouac - the sketches (like one about a vent pipe) in Visions of Cody. All > of October in the Railroad Earth (& play them the recording "But it was that > cut of cloud above the old SP alley, 3rd & Townsend. . . ." on a boom box > while you stand there of an afternoon). > > Does anyone write convincingly about sex (excepting of course yourself)? > Bataille at the end of Story of the Eye. Auden's The Platonic Blow, in > rhyme, I have a copy. The dry hump in subway scene in Black Spring by Henry > Miller. Anais Nin? Hejinian/Harryman? (too precious, probably) DH Lawrence? > Read Duchamp's note on Large Glass given to Maria Martins, page one, bottom. > Please tell me if any man or woman has really written a description, not an > emotive address, on/of fucking. Have you (even)? > > Good luck, Dodie. I wish I could take your course! > > Bill > > on 5/8/00 12:14 PM, Dodie Bellamy at dbkk@SIRIUS.COM wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I'm going to be teaching a Craft of Fiction class again in the fall. >> It's sort of a hybrid between a lit class and a writing workshop--for >> MFA students. >> >> Last time I taught this, I did Epistolary Form, and many on the >> poetics list were very generous with suggestions. >> >> This time I'm thinking of centering the class around Description--and >> in a broader sense, looking at the translation of the material world >> into the abstraction of writing. I want to look at tactics for >> privileging/muting various senses. Also want to look at ways of >> defamiliarizing the sensual world. Want to look at ways in which >> "we" categorize physical details (thinking Susan Stewart and Mary >> Douglas). I'd like to look at small portions of a wide range of >> texts, from the most conservative to the experimental. >> >> My questions are rather vague at this point since I'm still >> formulating this, but suggestions about any of the following would be >> helpful: >> >> 1. Any pertinent issues/topics that would broaden this discussion. >> >> 2. Theoretical writings on the topic that are fairly accessible. >> >> 3. Any primary (prose-ish) texts that you think do >> interesting/surprising things with description. >> >> 4. Writing exercises to stretch students' conceptions of description. >> >> This is a lot, and I have many ideas myself, but if anything comes to >> mind, please share your thoughts with me. >> >> Best, >> Dodie > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 21:14:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Jarnot Subject: Re: robert duncan Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who responded to my recent query re: Robert Duncan. I am also interested in corresponding with anyone who may have studied with Duncan at Central Washington State College in Ellensburg, Washington [1969]. Finally, I would also like to collect materials for a website I am now creating about Robert Duncan. The site will include biographical material on Duncan, essays, and access to relevant links. I'd be happy to include essays on Duncan written by anyone on this list, and I'd appreciate it if this information could be forwarded to others with an interest in Duncan and his associates. Thanks, Lisa Jarnot jarnot@pipeline.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 22:52:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: What I Saw at the Orono Conference 2000, part III Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Again I had Hobson's Choice on Friday morning, June 30th, but certainly I felt fresher than most-bodies were littered all around as though after a tornado after the all-night party that had engulfed our dorm. Should I attend the panel on b.p.nichol, George Bowering, Fred Wah? The three Canadians giving the papers on these men were new found friends-sunny and smart and (okay, in the case of Scott Pound, dark, glowering, shaved-head-bald and sexy) and ordinarily I would have listened eagerly to anything they had to say. But what about the George Oppen panel that featured two fine and wizard pals Stephen Cope and Alan Golding, plus another fellow I didn't already know? And plus, a pesky angel on my shoulder kept whispering to me, I had promised Barbara Guest I'd go to "her"panel and scurry back home and fill her in. There was a Robert Lowell panel which, if it didn't sound good, had that New England rectitude I'd travelled thousands of miles to get a purchase on. And what about "Points of Resistance?" I never did find out much about that one. Why indeed was I up so early and sitting in the front row at a panel on "Black Mountain and St. Mark's"? In a building undergoing asbestos restoration no less? Every worker in the place was wearing protective cotton masks around their lower faces, but no, we scholars and conferees were mask free! Why, Kevin, why? Two words: Miriam Nichols, who was giving one of the very few papers on Charles Olson. Has Olson's stock dropped? Hard to believe when he used to furrow so many foreheads in the 1970s. It takes today a brave woman to plunge ahead into the waters of Olson, as Miriam did, to come up with a fresh account of the "Special View of History" and its attendant philosophy of reading. But, had Miriam Nichols been speaking on grooming French poodles, I would have been there in that same front row. Years ago I had met her here in San Francisco at the very first Spicer Conference in the 1980s. Now she seemed younger and more stunning than ever (all that fresh air?) so that she seemed to be channelling the glamor of Dorian Leigh in that Avedon picture with the elephants. Every time she popped up in some exotic orange ensemble she seemed fresher and more invigorated, and more unearthly. Even her toenails, Dodie noticed, were painted orange. We declared her our Maine "It Girl." But, I also learned a lot from this panel about the systematic exclusion of Blackburn, Di Prima and Oppenheimer by the poets gathered around the St Mark's journal "The World" (from Burt Kimmelman's paper) and then got a Gothic charge out of Daniel Kane's primary research into the origins of the Poetry Project-pretty explosive if you ask me. I can't paraphrase all the ins and outs, and we'll have to wait for Mr. Kane's book on the subject, but apparently St. Mark's Church began the Poetry Project by boondoggling a huge ($200,000) grant from the Federal Government earmarked to get Latino youth off the street in the days of "juvenile delinquency." Needless to say, the young people who flocked to the "Church" in its early days were almost all white middle-class bohemians who had been run out of the Metro and the Deux Magots. Ethical problem in accepting federal money at the height of the Viet Nam war? Or was the thought, if they spend it on us, they won't be spending it on napalm? Anyway, Daniel Kane seemed a little conflicted about this, but I was lapping it all up, thinking of the Church now as a kind of House of Seven Gables, born in sin, dragging the sin behind it like the albatross, real Goth and suffering through centuries, although as Kane pointed out it has only been 34 years. Lost in this Gothic fog I wandered right through the exemplary readings by Fred Wah and George Bowering, worried about my own paper I was supposed to give that very afternoon. Faces swirled around me, pink and gray like Morris Louis paintings come to life. I plunged my gaze into my conference program, studied the afternoon's offerings. At 1:30 Lee Ann Brown would be presenting the re-stored, re-scored print of Helen Adam's 1963 film Daydream of Darkness (with other works of "poetic cinema"), with a new score. It was great to have all these 60s poets in one place, but I wondered about the backstage negotiations and how it shook out that these particular ones appeared and other didn't. One British poet had already expressed his disappointment. "I crossed the fucking Atlantic and fucking David Antin isn't here!" So I cornered an organizer and asked him who they had hoped to get and couldn't. "Well, Creeley, of course. Barbara Guest almost came, but postponed til October. At one time we were almost sure we had Adrienne Rich." Dodie and I nodded, fascinated, seeing how the addition and/or subtraction of any one of these would have shifted the balance of the conference in one nebulous alternate-universe scenario after another. "Negotiations with June Jordan broke down," Deep Throat whispered (we were leaning against a pole). "John Ashbery, Ed Sanders, would have been swell. Ron Silliman. Joan Retallack." We gave each other knowing glances at the latter two--more poets of the 70s in the guise of 60s poets. Not that it wouldn't have been great to hear them, see them, hold them again! Our informant coughed as a passel of Canadians slithered by. We pretended we weren't talking. "And of course many of the leading figures are dead. Ginsberg, Dorn, Lorde, Zukofsky, Plath, Oppen, Eigner, O'Hara, Schuyler, Niedecker, Kerouac." Race against time in the noonday sun of Maine. "Daydream of Darkness" was filmed over many months in 1963 here in San Francisco. The film, about 25 minutes long, once had a soundtrack (or did it?) (but perhaps a live track of a script of Helen Adam reading to music by Pauline Oliveros) and, when it was restored a few years back by the efforts of Kristin Prevallet, premiered to a tragic silence which some in the audience found oppressive. Since I thought it was fine in silence, I didn't know how I would like the new soundtrack, composed recently in New York by a group including Lee Ann Brown, Beth Brown, Nada Gordon, Drew Gardner and Kristin herself, but happily the new music track works supremely well, following the vague script outlines and featuring new renditions of some of Adam's own poems and songs. Wait till you hear Nada Gordon singing! She is like this eerie cross between Anita O'Day and Linda Thompson! Dodie and I sat there spines tingling up and down with enjoyment and envy, because it isn't fair, it really isn't, that she should have so many talents! When the lights went up I gathered my bags and scattered across the campus to join a panel in progress. (This form of attending, or seeming to attend, as many simultaneous events as possible is, I learned, called "panel-hopping" and was extremely popular last week in Maine, the draft between speakers from the revolving door approaching gale force at times.) I rushed over to join up to the "Beat Women Writing" panel, but unfortunately missed hearing the paper on Lenore Kandel and wound up only at the very tail end of a paper on Ruth Weiss' "Desert Journal." This may not be a familiar book to many of you but if you lived here in the Bay Area and haunted the thrift shops like I do, you'd know it was the book most often found on the poetry shelves there, it's always that and some ratty old copy of John Brown's Body by Stephen Vincent Benet and perhaps in the chic-er neighborhoods Thom Gunn's "Man with the Night Sweats." Anyhow Kristin who had also ejected herself from the cinematheque took the stage to read her paper on Helen Adam as fitting between Harry Smith's "Anthology of American Folk Music" and Joan Baez's first album, but naturally keeping herself at a distance from both poles. An interesting discussion followed, during which my heart sank a little since the audience seemed completely conversant on every point I planned to make in my own paper. We were talking about the ballad genre and how freely it became mixed with pop music at a certain point in US cultural history, and how artists like Dylan and Baez seemed to "freeze" their versions of folk ballad material to a point where no one now is re-writing them to their own ends (perhaps copyright, that stern Minerva, has impaled artistic freedom once again) whereas in only the decade before, fluidity and potentiality reigned, and now, where does a recording like that Baz Luhrman sunscreen thing fit in? Kristin, by the way, always looked colorful and to-the-minute stylish, delivering her paper in elaborate shoes, clunky hip hop trainers that practically bellowed, "You can take the girl out of New York, but you (dot dot dot)." Then it came time for my own appearance at the panel, "Dorn and Spicer" (Alan Golding said it should have been called "Cranky White Guys who Loved to Piss People Off") which was held in a long, low science type room with all the chairs mounted behind long flat tables that stretched out for yards on either side. Logically enough, as the room filled up, I sat there eyes narrowed to count all my true friends who showed up to hear me, Keith Tuma, and Charles Blanton, and made up a little list of those former friends who had taken it into their heads to attend the competition, which included yet another panel on Oppen and Bronk (Bronk! I cried out to high Heaven), a smart panel that travelled from Langston Hughes to the Black Arts Movement; a Berryman panel ("Berryman!" I screamed out, like Ignatius O'Reilly in that movie theater when they showed that Doris Day Rock Hudson picture "Must he come back from the watery dead to disturb my rest!"); a panel on experimental women writers & the big event, the John Wieners panel with the man himself in attendance. Or, I know, some elected instead to take a nap, motor into town to buy more liquor, pitch pup tents in Acadia National Park or just to get out of the conference funk I had, with each minute, more mired myself in. So making this little list I listened to Keith Tuma's paper on the close friendship and literary retrievals between Dorn and Jeremy Prynne, which solved a textual problem while admirably raising as many questions as it purported to answer; and then heard Charles Blanton talk about the geography of "Idaho Out," with all the kick and pizzazz of the very latest in topographical studies. I felt I'd heard the last word on topos and concentrated instead on remarking to myself how very much Charles Blanton resembles the actor John C. Reilly (Boogie Nights, The Perfect Storm, etc., etc). Then when it came my turn to speak I simply shut everything else out and spoke my 1400 words--one word for every two miles it had taken me to get there. (If anyone wants a copy of my paper let me know I'll send it to you via e-mail). The next event was the reading by John Wieners. Kathleen Fraser recalled how when she ran the Poetry Center at San Francisco State, many years back, she had invited Wieners to come give a reading but heard nothing from him again until the day before the reading when he rang the bell, suitcase in hand, announcing his presence. When she got back from work that evening he had a) re-arranged all her furniture; b) tried on all her dresses and c) written a poem for her, "For Kathleen Fraser and the Governor of the State of California." On Friday I sat next to him in the front row and talked at him blithely enough while he continued writing a special poem he'd written. He kept turning back and forth the pages of a spiral notebook polishing it off. In large capital letters it read, at the top, "A MIDDLE CLASS VOICE." John had several bags with him, each one fitting into several others, and all to be dumped into a shabby dark flight bag (that's what he called it, I'd call it a runsack), together with some clipping about movie stars, packets of hotel sugar, stubby pencil ends, scraps of worked-up paper, those devotional renderings of dead saints we used to call "holy pictures" when I was a Long Island altar boy, and each one had to go back in its rightful place before he could give his reading. "Kevin," he said, "I'd like to remind you, I would like the full-face shot of Edie Adams." Halfway through Steve Evans introduction, Wieners put the final period on his poem, capped his pen smartly, and lurched from his seat, then strutted with aplomb to the podium, where various copies of his books. Some microphone confusion, but the reading began with "A Middle Class Voice" then went on to include a pair of book reviews as a gesture, I take it, to his academic surround. One was on the wonderful "Mr. Skeffington" by "Elizabeth," which I remember better as that great Warners 40s film where Bette Davis is the most beautiful woman in town and Claude Rains marries her only because he's got the money to save her once-proud family from ruin, and then she gets smallpox and he goes blind and he continues to think of her as beautiful and she doesn't discourage him but he knows anyhow, and she says, "A woman is beautiful only when she is loved." Well, Wieners mumbled and grumbled through many pages of "Beyond the State Capitol" occasionally raising his voice in an oratorical style, but never for very long. I had the feeling that many in the audience were confused, some moved to pity by the waste of it all, other cheered by Wieners' perceived control of his own performative style, still others fascinated by the Walter Brennan-style grubstake dishevelment of Wieners' "look" (his hair, for example, long hair which looks like a rubber band is tying back, but no, it's just the way it's been molded over the years) and most I think felt brushed by something profound tho' hard to name. I remember going to see, as a youngster, the lectures of Maria Callas during her "master class" at Juilliard and her once encouraging a student in some phrase or another by actually singing it herself, and the look of surprise and dismay that crossed her face, the mouth moving and the ears taking it all in, and the brain registering who knows what wiggly graph of time, grief and pride. Well, that's what I was feeling anyhow listening to John. Afterwards they were all over him to shake his hand and or to renew old acquaintance and he must have been feeling pretty good about himself and about us. I gave him the full-face photo of Edie Adams and he found a place for it in what he called the "front" of his flight bag. I went next to the plenary session that Bob Perelman gave on Melvin Tolson's "Harlem Gallery." Not knowing much about Tolson, and in 45 minutes Bob managed to cram a good deal about the poem, but wow, he had a handout with 30 or 35 quotes from the poem, and 45 minutes into his talk, he was only guiding us through example 4. His enthusiasm carried him through however. Michael Magee has reported the denouement in which Marjorie Perloff, not persuaded by Perelman's eloquence, averred her opinion of Tolson as a "minor poet." On the face of it I'm ready to disagree and take Tolson for a major poet, but if the criteria are that Major Poet X has to have had influenced other, later Major Poets who knows? What's major anyhow (or why is it so important)? Tolson's utility to poetry may be in his extreme example as modernism turned both inward and outward at the same skewed moment--its difficulty matched only by its openings towards the public and the "outside" it (agreed Perelman and Perloff) had little hope of reaching while the 60s carried themselves on. Now that "Harlem Gallery" has been republished, it will be interesting to see what happens to it during the next 10 years. Apparently, like ARK, all of it is written in lines completely centered down the middle of the page--what's that about? To me centered lines foreground themselves and enough is enough, or maybe I've just read too much Michael McClure??? Michael (Magee) has also given us a good account of Lorenzo Thomas' paper on the Black Arts Movement so I'll skip right ahead to the event I'd been waiting for all week, Carla Harryman's staging of "Dutchman" by LeRoi Jones. During the past few days we'd seen so little of Carla and of her cast, for they were in continuous rehearsal, and having worked in the past with Carla I envied her actors the experience they must, I thought, be undergoing, the deep, deep immersion into a sometimes intractable text so that, when the light breaks, it breaks with a Vermeerian simplicity and beauty. Carla had chosen a noticeably thin cast--I mean literally, physically, Lee Ann Brown so supple and small, Lorenzo Thomas as the narrator (and conductor) cleverly playing both parts and himself so dashing and slender, and Steve Benson, the veteran Language Poet and now Maine-based psychiatrist who came to visit the conference, a happy reunion for me, for the Bay Area lost a certain je ne sais quoi of gravitas the day he left us, and Steve almost preternaturally thin playing a drunk strap hanger in the NYC subway, weaving almost thinner than the strap itself he clutched, and all this set off marvelously by Mark McMorris with his solid dependability as the hero, Clay, a comfortable cuddleability that Carla brilliantly worked with and against as the rebel psychoses of Clay made themselves known during the brief 40 minutes of the play. But first there was the suspense, of course, that, owing to the [friction?] between Barry Watten and Amiri Baraka of the evening before, would the two empty chairs reserved for Amiri and Amina Baraka be filled? Carla held the curtain until the very last moment, until the Barakas indeed made an entrance as dramatic as anything that ensued, and then all eyes were riveted on the stage. After almost forty years, the play still holds up, albeit the extreme violence with which Clay dismisses Lula (is that her name) has this nasty overtone of misogyny maybe it didn't have in the original production? Carla chose to underline this ugliness by freezing Lula's body across Clay's lap like a Pieta; a break out of theatrical representation on a different scale than her other innovations. (Maybe I'm wrong about this?) Maybe, also, there's a little bit too much of a Rod Serling feel to the very very end of "Dutchman," with yet another white woman approaching Clay, so the audience feels, we are in the middle of the twilight zone of endless repetition till the cycle of abuse comes to an end? If so, it had a period charm that took us right back to the 1960s whether or not we wanted to go. I sat right next to Asa Watten who was videotaping the entire thing and Asa, if you're reading this, I'm sorry I said the other day that you were 13 when of course you're 15! It seems like mere minutes ago I was hauling you on my shoulders over and over in that sunny Mission Street loft during the months of rehearsals for "Memory Play"! And also for implying that you had no other interest in the conference than playing chess, for out of all of us, you were at the same time the most engaged and the most welcome in every circle I saw you in. But you will forgive me with the quickness of youth, I hope, love, Kevin. It might have been at the bar afterwards that one conferee, lacking a name tag so I don't know who she was (or what was her speciality), told me that she had read Dodie's article in the Village Voice about our marriage, and what she wanted to know was, if I was a transsexual (and her tone seemed further to ask, if so, what kind)? I was so flabbergasted I didn't know what to say! Shut up for once, and all I could say was no, I didn't even say, I wish I was! But, shaken to the core, I have to stop here now and won't even try describing the rest of the events of Friday night, June 30! -- Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 05:17:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: BBC live MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - BBC live shot of Margaret at her workstation shot of Everdeen next to Margaret at her workstation shot of Margaret and Alan and Everdeen having tea in the conservatory scotched shot of Margaret and Alan and Everdeen in the conservatory shot of Alan at the pocket computer in the conservatory shot of laptop in the conservatory shot of parlor room shot of pocket computer in the parlor room with Margaret shot of Everdeen at the pocket computer shot of Margaret and Everdeen and Alan in the garden Text written during the establishment shot: There is nothing to look at in this format - but what is occurring, this filming of the face, as if something could be told in this regard? shot of hollyhock now still another shot - as if something is being said, the camera tight on the hands, looking down on the pocket computer, ignoring the errors surely I must be making - it continues in this way - it's always something like this, isn't it, a picture of your writing going out in the world... __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:10:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: new novel by Joseph Torra Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tony Luongo, the second novel in Joseph Torra's My Ground trilogy, is now available from England's Gollancz Books. Like Gas Station, the first novel in the trilogy, Tony Luongo explores the lives of a post-war Italian-American family in an expansive and fast-flowing narrative. Praise for Gas Station: "If words were lug nuts, Joseph Torra would spin them in ways the guys down at the garage never dreamed of" New York Times Book Review "the storytelling has a wonderful sense of imagination, intelligence, economy and originality" Hubert Selby Jr. "the poetry of Gas Station comes from the more prosaic rhythms of speech, and its meaning lies in the disjointed yet recognizable shape of everyday experience" Los Angeles Times Book Review * Tony Luongo is not available in American bookstores, but can be ordered on-line through Amazon.Co.UK. and other UK book sites. **The opening section of Tony Luongo appears in the journal Pressed Wafer #1. ><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard Senior Production Coordinator The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:41:26 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hoa Nguyen Subject: Skanky Possum #4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed * please forgive cross-postings * ANNOUNCING Skanky Possum #4 with poetry and prose by: Ken Irby * Elizabeth Young * Drew Gardner * Elisa McCool * Brenda Iijma * Stephen Ratcliffe * Sotere Torregian * Eleni Sikelianos * Elizabeth Willis * Judy Roitman * Joe Maynard * Jeffrey Jullich * Peter O'Leary * Bobbie West * Alicia marie Howard * Marcella Durand * Stefan Hyner * Ouyang Xiu (translated by Simon Schuchat) * Tom Whalen * David Baratier * Albert Flynn DeSilver * Ji Eun Lee * Mark Pawlak * Paul Christensen * Crag Hill * Alan Gilbert * Cyrus Console * Bruce Severy * Tom Clark * Marlene Lortev Terwilliger * Featuring an essay/pseudo-review by David Hess on Slam Poetry and *Close Listening*, a collection of essays on performance & poetry edited by Charles Bernstein. ...With handpainted covers...Still only $5... Available from Small Press Distribution at http://www.spdbooks.org/ or by calling (800) 869-7553. For more information on our journal and single author books, please visit http://www.skankypossum.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:49:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: self-love, self-hatred MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - self-hatred, self-love everything i say is through my face. everything i say is through my face. _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:22:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Abdalhayy@AOL.COM Subject: Poetry/Puppet show announcement Comments: To: aberrigan@excite.com, abirge@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, agil@erols.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, AMossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, Ayperry@aol.com, Babsulous@aol.com, baratier@megsinet.net, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, bdowns@columbiabooks.com, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, booglit@excite.com, BStrogatz@aol.com, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, chris@bluefly.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, CSchnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ejfugate@yahoo.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, eludwig@philadelphiaweekly.com, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, GasHeart@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jschwart@thunder.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kyle.conner@mail.tju.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, MARCROB2000@hotmail.com, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mgpiety@drexel.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, Miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, penwaves@mindspring.com, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, SeeALLMUSE@aol.com, sernak@juno.com, SFrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, travmar03@msn.com, TWells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, VMehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE FLOATING LOTUS MAGIC PUPPET THEATER PRESENTS THE MYSTICAL ROMANCE OF LAYLA & MAJNUN told through poetry, puppets, music and masks by DANIEL ABDAL-HAYY MOORE THURSDAY, AUGUST 3RD 7:30PM $5 donation requested MAIN LINE ART CENTER HAVERFORD, PENNSYLVANIA Old Buck Road & Lancaster Avenue (next to the Wilkie Lexus Dealership opposite Wendy's, past Petco Pet Center) 610-525-0272 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 00:34:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: contact request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone have a mailing address for Tan Lin? Please backchannel & much thanks in advance. --Jerrold ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:41:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cynthia Kane Tedesco Subject: 'Barrow Street' Summer 2000 Publication Party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends, 'Barrow Street' is proud to announce the publication of its Summer 2000 issue. Our 'Summer 2000 Publication Party' will be held Thursday, July 20th at 7 to 9 PM at Fordham University, 60th Street & 9th Avenue ( second floor ). There will be lots of wine & refreshments & friends. Our featured readers are; ROBERT KELLY & JEANNE MARIE BEAUMONT. There's a $10 admission which includes the Journal. We truly look forward to seeing you there! Bring friends! The Editors: Patricia Carlin, Peter Covino, Lois Hirshkowitz, Melissa Hotchkiss, Cynthia Tedesco ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:46:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I forward here a message I received from Raymond Federman -- a note he sent to Ron Sukenik, Editor of the American Book Review. I am sending this to the list with Raymond's permission. I haven't been able to locate her year of birth. Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:19:50 EDT From: Raymond Federman charles this is what I wrote to ron today about ursule Ron I just learned that Ursule Molinaro died today -- she was one of us -- a real writer who refused to compromise. She was also a fine artist. But for me she will remain one of the most astuce numerologists. One evening in a restaurant in the village [I think Marianne Hauser was there too -- another one of our great cotemporaries] Ursule deciphered for me the numbers in my name and she told me the whole story of my life - -past present future. She was not read enough. But perhaps now she will be. I feel sad. I don't know why really. I didn't know her that well. I read her some. I hope ABR will make mention of her changing of tenses you may even print my little statement above about her as an homage to her. Federman ____________________________ from McPherson and Co's online catalog, followed by a list of books they publish http://www.mcphersonco.com/authors/umolinar.html: Ursule Molinaro is the author of thirteen novels, a number of widely produced one-act plays, three volumes of non-fiction, and hundreds of short stories. Her novels and stories have been published in England, France, and Japan, as well as the U.S. Recipient of awards and fellowships from the McDowell Foundation, the National Endowment for the Arts, the New York Foundation for the Arts, and the PEN American Center, Ms. Molinaro also translates from four languages, including works by Hermann Hesse, Dino Buzzati, Nathalie Sarraute, Phillipe Sollers, Uwe Johnson, Rheinhard Lettau, Audiberti, and films by Jean Luc-Godard and Agnes Varda. She is also an artist (her paintings and collages appear on her McPherson titles), dramatist, translator, and acrosticist. Ursule Molinaro lives in New York City with her cat, Owlbear. Contemporary Authors gives this bibliography: POETRY Rimes et raisons, Regain (Monte Carlo), 1954. Mirrors for Small Beasts, Noonday, 1960. NOVELS L'Un pour l'autre, translation from the English manuscript by Edith Fournier, Julliard (Paris), 1964, manuscript published as The Borrower: An Alchemical Novel, Harper (New York City), 1970. Green Lights Are Blue: A Pornosophic Novel, New American Library (New York City), 1967. Sounds of a Drunken Summer, Harper, 1969. The Autobiography of Cassandra, Princess and Prophetess of Troy, Archer Editions Press (Danbury, CT), 1979. Positions with White Roses, McPherson (New Paltz, NY), 1983. The New Moon with the Old Moon in Her Arms: A True Story Assembled from Scholarly Hearsay, Women's Press Ltd. (London), 1990, McPherson (Kingston, NY), 1993. Power Dreamers: The Jocasta Complex, McPherson, 1994. COLLECTIONS Encores for a Dilettante, Braziller (New York City), 1978. Bastards: Footnotes to History (two short stories; illustrated), Treacle Nightschool for Saints, Second Floor, Ring Bell: 11 Short Stories, Archer Editions Press, 1981. Thirteen: Stories, McPherson, 1989. A Full Moon of Women: 29 Word Portraits of Notable Women from Different Times and Places, Dutton (New York City), 1990. NONFICTION The Zodiac Lovers, Avon (New York City), 1969. Life by the Numbers: A Basic Guide to Learning Your Life through Numerology, Morrow (New York City), 1971. PLAYS The Abstract Wife, Hill & Wang (New York City), 1961. Breakfast Past Noon (one-act), published in New Women's Theatre, Random House (New York City), 1977. Also author of one-act plays The Engagement, After the Wash, and The Sundial, all published or produced; author of unpublished and unproduced plays "The Mine" (one-act)," Antiques" (one-act), "The Great Emancipation," and "The Happy Hexagon." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:25:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: robert duncan In-Reply-To: <200007100148.VAA23939@granger.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >Finally, I would also like to collect materials for a website I am now >creating about Robert Duncan. The site will include biographical material >on Duncan, essays, and access to relevant links. I'd be happy to include >essays on Duncan written by anyone on this list, and I'd appreciate it if >this information could be forwarded to others with an interest in Duncan and >his associates. > >Thanks, >Lisa Jarnot >jarnot@pipeline.com Lisa, can I assume that you have or have seen the interview that Bob Hogg and i did with Duncan in Montreal, published by Coach House Press lo these many years past? gb -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:53:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: Tolson v. Olson - Kevins speculations In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Killian" at Jul 9, 2000 10:52:57 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I'm back again, revisiting the Tolson issue: you'll remember that I gave Marjorie short shrift (sp?) in my first post for, among other things, calling Tolson a minor poet. I've already tried to dig myself out of a hole by saying better what I meant re: the O'Hara/Johns talk and Baraka's peevishness. Now I'd like to deal a bit more extensively, tho not too much, with the Tolson issue. As Kevin's apology to Asa Watten reveals, one writes these posts so fast that there can be much unintentional glossing-over which appears to be pure snub (though Kevin probably has less to lose by glossing Asa's Orono experience than I do in glossing Marjorie's!) Any-hoo, I should have added in my original post that a) I overheard what Marjorie said in a *public space* within earshot of the whole gang: no sense that either I was sneaking a listen or Marjorie and Bob were concealing their conversation - the various conversations by the bar, incidentally, were all like that - people wandering in and out, changing the course of the conversation, etc, a nice thing; and b) that what Kevin said regarding the issue of *influence* as part of the Major Poet criteria was also part of the Marjorie/Bob conversation. Here's what Kevin said, followed by a few thought of mine: [Michael Magee has reported the denouement in which Marjorie Perloff, not persuaded by Perelman's eloquence, averred her opinion of Tolson as a "minor poet." On the face of it I'm ready to disagree and take Tolson for a major poet, but if the criteria are that Major Poet X has to have had influenced other, later Major Poets who knows? What's major anyhow (or why is it so important)? Tolson's utility to poetry may be in his extreme example as modernism turned both inward and outward at the same skewed moment--its difficulty matched only by its openings towards the public and the "outside" it (agreed Perelman and Perloff) had little hope of reaching while the 60s carried themselves on. Now that "Harlem Gallery" has been republished, it will be interesting to see what happens to it during the next 10 years.] I take my lead from what Kevin says above, to wit: why is it so important? - as Kevin suggests, it's not very important and what I like about his post is how this admission leads to an emphasis on *utility to poetry*: what might one make of Tolson's hybrid language games, what might one borrow, employ? No one, of course deals in major and minor in our day like Harold Bloom and Bloom of course does indeed predicate his separation of said terms by emphasing influence and its attendant anxieties which lead to productive misreadings blabbetyblabbettyblah. Lord knows we shouldn't have to bring up the fact that if a book is out of print it can't be productively misread by very many poets. But, for instance, I can see a poet like Kasey Mohammad or Jennifer Moxley or Mytili Jagannathan going to town with Tolson - since his metholodolgy dove-tails with their interest in, speaking generally, taking traditional forms and rhetorical structures with them into either outer space or the 'hood. In this sense, Tolson is arriving at precisely the right time as these poets really hit their stride. Which is why I say, hooray for Melvin Tolson! and expect to see him and all my favorite young poets in Bloom's next book. Affectionately, -m. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:55:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. > > Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at >such a great cost. > > In all senses of that word, cost-- > > In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is > eternal vigilance" > and the license plates read > "Live Free or Die" > The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware >from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep >like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance >which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. > The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be >peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all >too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for >blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a >"reasoned >discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and >debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, >upward lifted eyes and the like. > It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at >putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned >with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter >rhetoric. > The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the >self-proclaimed >openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. > Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum >can't seem to get >reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. > One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one >respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the >silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. > Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise >and >more noise. > Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe >altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for >you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a >remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and >the like. > One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding >the posts to others,so they, >too can return the messages--and >the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own >returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off >like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. > In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante >man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding >back. > "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" This is all so interesting. If I may make an attempt to link this well worn business to something more substantial . . . . The list, it seems to me, has thrust us backwards to a time where letter writing was the default mode of communication (when face to face was impossible). But it goes further than that--the simple letter was essentially a "one to one correspondence." The list is more like posted proclamations for the township, but strangely in this case written by the members of the community (not the king) who remain "essentially" anonymous--writing directed at everyone/no one in particular from someone/no one in particular. Even the signature appears in this forum as a textual tic rather than an entrance into real flesh and blood personhood. Most of us, after all, have never met. Derrida said as much--that the voice was contained by writing in the sense that speech must obey the rules of the sign system in order to make meaning--the self as linguistic event. What we have here is writing that "intertexts" with writing. "Strange how the older I get, the smarter my father becomes" (replace "father" with Derrida). Does anyone actually appear on this list? Yes, precisely--anyone. Best wishes to my fellow texts--you are an important part of me. In fact, you are I. And thank you Dillon for your brilliant support of the poststructuralist project! Signed, Bill Austin (who is who? who lives where? who feels how? who desires what? Etc.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:08:01 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Free Speech/ Moderation & Immoderate Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/11/00 10:37:05 AM, dbchirot@CSD.UWM.EDU writes: << Freedom of speech means freedom from rhetoric --Umberto Ecco qted p. 24 and source cited as n. 35, p. 28 as from: "Ur-Fascism," New York Review of Books (june 22, 1995),12. in: Robert A. Sobieszek, PORTS OF ENTRY: William S. Burroughs and the Arts (Los Angeles: Los Angeles County Museum of Art, Thames and Hudson, 1996) --dbchirot >> Precisely--and there is no freedom from rhetoric--as Ecco's Misreadings clearl y implies (despite what he may dream privately or publicly). Unless we believe in some sort of pure form, a writing that is not a writing. How like Plato! How romantic! By the way, loved your pastiche of right wing research tools. Used your construction to make a point--your construction as it turns out, not you (since no one is entirely in charge of his/her own construction). Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:58:35 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please excuse this addendum. But for the sake of accuracy--in my last post re: Moderation and Immoderation, I wrote the following: "'Strange how the older I get, the smarter my father becomes' (replace "father" with "Derrida")." Hope I got those quotation marks down correctly; I doubt it. Anyway, I meant to add that when we replace "father" with "Derrida," we should also draw a line through the word "Derrida." There--now I feel better. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:19:42 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: What a maroon! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Maroon is not merely a mispronunciation of <>; it's also an "Americanization" of <>, wch means wild or savage. Combine that w/ the sense of maroon that means to be put ashore on a desolate island or coast and left to one's fate, and you get a being whose idiom is always a little "off"." Sort of like a quantum theory moron - unpredictably off his nut, the nut in this case being the <>, a Spanish chestnut, one of those purplish things one can't help thoughtlessly fondling. S E >From: John Tranter >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: What a maroon! >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 09:29:26 +1000 > >In a recent post, Ron Henry used the phrase "What a maroon." > >I'd like to know the etymology of this saying. I know Bugs Bunny made it >widely popular, but whence does it come? > >Is it a deliberate mispronunciation of "moron"? > >Is it a private thing of Tex Avery's? > >Anyone? > >John Tranter, Sydney >from John Tranter > Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html > Ancient history - the late sixties - at > http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/tranter/index.html >______________________________________________ > 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia > tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 >From: John Tranter >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: What a maroon! >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 09:29:26 +1000 > >In a recent post, Ron Henry used the phrase "What a maroon." > >I'd like to know the etymology of this saying. I know Bugs Bunny made it >widely popular, but whence does it come? > >Is it a deliberate mispronunciation of "moron"? > >Is it a private thing of Tex Avery's? > >Anyone? > >John Tranter, Sydney >from John Tranter > Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html > Ancient history - the late sixties - at > http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/tranter/index.html >______________________________________________ > 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia > tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:43:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marjorie Perloff Subject: Orono post-mortems.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin Killian's account (of all three days but his account of the third is extra terrific) should be published. I want to urge Steve, Ben, and Burt to run it in SAGETRIEB--it is absolutely a gem all the way, beautifully nuanced and vivid, especially about Wieners! That was indeed a great moment! I also think Kevin's remarks on Ed Dorn (in the paper he wrote) are worth publishing there so all can read (and debate!). As for Baraka, O'Hara, Tolson: I didn't pay much attention to Baraka's charge against me since he obviously didn't hear the talk or came in 3 minutes before the end. And I've puzzled over the last line of "In Memory of My Feelings" these many years--I may be wrong, as Michael Magee suggests, but it doesn't really change the thrust of the argument which neither he nor Baraka had anything to say about. During the past year, in honor of the O'Hara show (in LA, Ohio, West Hampton), there's been much linkage between O'Hara and Johns (by myself included) and my thrust here was to show that, finally, their aesthetic diverged and that (I believe), Johns's own works are subtly critiquing O'Hara even as he pays homage to his revered friend. And that critique looks ahead to the shift in mood in the later sixties--when O'Hara was already dead! That's why I end by talking about Johns in 1968. This in no way undercuts Frank's wonderful poetry but its particular tonality, I would argue, couldn't last. In regard to Tolson: it's worth bearing in mind that Allen Tate and John Ciardi (the Establishment critic of the period) extravagantly admired Tolson even as they disliked Langston Hughes. I believe they saw in Tolson a relationship to post-Poundian (seemingly) poets like Delmore Schwartz and, in a different vein, Parker Tyler. Schwartz is now virtually unread but his long ambitious poems have curious connections to Tolson. Both are interesting poets but I maintain that the "major" label has more to do with identity politics than anything else--the proof is in Michael's reaction: I am scolded for what he overheard without any real commentary on Tolson's poetry as if to say, anyone who doesn't tow the current party line, man!, had better look out! Imagine Perloff having the gall to say what she did to Bob. She must like John Crowe Ransom! The irony here is that Tate, who so praised Tolson, is of course Ransom's sidekick. As for the LeRoi Jones/Frank O'Hara relationship, I think it's well worth investigating fully and I hope Michael's paper on the "5 Spot" (which I'm crushed to have missed, had to go to another session at that time) is part of a longer study of same. Marjorie Perloff ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 01:58:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: Free Speech/ Moderation & Immoderate Poetics In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It's Aristotle versus the Sophists on this matter. Obviously, I stand with Aristotle against Hilarity and Python-headed Carvile. > From: David Baptiste Chirot > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 07:37:05 -0500 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Free Speech/ Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > Freedom of speech means freedom from rhetoric > > --Umberto Ecco > > qted p. 24 and source cited as n. 35, p. 28 > > as from: "Ur-Fascism," New York Review of Books (june 22, > 1995),12. > > in: Robert A. Sobieszek, PORTS OF ENTRY: William S. Burroughs and > the Arts (Los Angeles: Los Angeles County Museum of Art, Thames > and Hudson, 1996) > > --dbchirot > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:03:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristen Gallagher Subject: jessica grim contact info? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit would someone who knows fwd an email address for jessica grim? thanks in advance. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:42:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Molly Schwartzburg Subject: Re: What a maroon! In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000708092737.00a45810@pop3.zipworld.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I don't know anything about the bugs bunny version of the term, but maroon is also used to refer to fugitive slaves who set up communities that subverted and distrupted slavery by harboring other fugitives, planning rebellions, stealing food, etc. Houston Baker discusses "marronage" briefly in _Modernism and the Harlem Renaissance_, p. 76-79, referring to Richard Price's _ Maroon Societies_, in case anyone is interested. --Molly Schwartzburg On Sat, 8 Jul 2000, John Tranter wrote: > In a recent post, Ron Henry used the phrase "What a maroon." > > I'd like to know the etymology of this saying. I know Bugs Bunny made it > widely popular, but whence does it come? > > Is it a deliberate mispronunciation of "moron"? > > Is it a private thing of Tex Avery's? > > Anyone? > > John Tranter, Sydney > from John Tranter > Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html > Ancient history - the late sixties - at > http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/tranter/index.html > ______________________________________________ > 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia > tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:28:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Stacy Doris Paramour Krupskaya ISBN: 1-928650--05--8 $9 134 pp. A freewheeling manual on the intoxications of love may seem a poor career move in a day when Victorian mores and sexual disease have sent everyone willingly back to a public, post-60s sexual civility. Doris faces this challenge by going over the top, with an excessive, polymorphic romp through the many permutations love can inhabit, and in the meantime finds that off-stage, rarely-seen space where aesthetics and titillation meet in lascivious embrace. As she writes in her introduction, her task -- influenced by the "current technological unconscious' restructuring of space... in which locations and identities shift with radical illogic" -- was to explore, primarily through palindrome, the "demonstration and distortion of many kinds of lyric verse" and "human sexual response." What results is something both mythic (in the spirit of the Satyricon), medieval (with its gothic complexity) and somewhat late-Enlightenment (in the manner of Sade, exhausting all possibilities but that of God's existence). _Paramour_ is a landscape strewn with figures -- ballads, eclogues, prose poems -- from the cultural tradition who meet again and again in a large box of mirrors to revisit their amours: "Pipe drives the kids wild, / Piping sprinkles bright goo, / In a cloud of chewy fluid, / And Pipe laughing sing to all: / 'Pipe a game about a toy!' / So kids pop with happy guns. / 'Pipey peek in fun again;' / So shoot too to tickle here." (4) Like Lee Ann Brown's _Polyverse_ (Sun & Moon), Paramour skids through a variety of formal poses, transmitting its carnal logic through pun and prose, epigraph and song -- no stone left unturned in its quest for momentary satisfaction: "Get all fuzzy Gets all mixed / when your body feels so rich / and in me But in its / so fully seeps all destructs / may a new / a hand's more than / in all, more in!" (7) "A Four-Tongued Version" from the chapter "How to Love" is a beautiful long sequence of shorter, quatrain poems that are like versified fortune-cookies, each one either a sharp, beguiling puzzle, some kernel of "wisdom", or a telescoped narrative: "While she slept / he suffered her sister. / Whose weather / could be nicer?" (20) Included is a calendar of valentines -- one poem for every day of February --, a manual of love and war based on the writings of Sun Tzu, several pages that seem like games (her last full-length book of poems, _Kildare_, took place inside a video game), all of which walks the cusp of this book's question, which is: can form itself be the only content, or must it ever point to a "moral," ideological stance, or philosophical pose to justify itself? Doris's book is both refreshingly free of the sentimentality of love but, as well, free of much of psychology most of us -- in less extreme moments -- identify with it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:31:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Little Review: Stacy Doris' Paramour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Stacy Doris > Paramour > Krupskaya > ISBN: 1-928650--05--8 > $9 > 134 pp. > A freewheeling manual on the intoxications of love may seem a poor career > move in a day when Victorian mores and sexual disease have sent everyone > willingly back to a public, post-60s sexual civility. Doris faces this > challenge by going over the top, with an excessive, polymorphic romp > through the many permutations love can inhabit, and in the meantime finds > that off-stage, rarely-seen space where aesthetics and titillation meet in > lascivious embrace. As she writes in her introduction, her task -- > influenced by the "current technological unconscious' restructuring of > space... in which locations and identities shift with radical illogic" -- > was to explore, primarily through palindrome, the "demonstration and > distortion of many kinds of lyric verse" and "human sexual response." What > results is something both mythic (in the spirit of the Satyricon), > medieval (with its gothic complexity) and somewhat late-Enlightenment (in > the manner of Sade, exhausting all possibilities but that of God's > existence). _Paramour_ is a landscape strewn with figures -- ballads, > eclogues, prose poems -- from the cultural tradition who meet again and > again in a large box of mirrors to revisit their amours: "Pipe drives the > kids wild, / Piping sprinkles bright goo, / In a cloud of chewy fluid, / > And Pipe laughing sing to all: / 'Pipe a game about a toy!' / So kids pop > with happy guns. / 'Pipey peek in fun again;' / So shoot too to tickle > here." (4) Like Lee Ann Brown's _Polyverse_ (Sun & Moon), Paramour skids > through a variety of formal poses, transmitting its carnal logic through > pun and prose, epigraph and song -- no stone left unturned in its quest > for momentary satisfaction: "Get all fuzzy Gets all mixed / when your body > feels so rich / and in me But in its / so fully seeps all destructs / may > a new / a hand's more than / in all, more in!" (7) "A Four-Tongued > Version" from the chapter "How to Love" is a beautiful long sequence of > shorter, quatrain poems that are like versified fortune-cookies, each one > either a sharp, beguiling puzzle, some kernel of "wisdom", or a telescoped > narrative: "While she slept / he suffered her sister. / Whose weather / > could be nicer?" (20) Included is a calendar of valentines -- one poem for > every day of February --, a manual of love and war based on the writings > of Sun Tzu, several pages that seem like games (her last full-length book > of poems, _Kildare_, took place inside a video game), all of which walks > the cusp of this book's question, which is: can form itself be the only > content, or must it ever point to a "moral," ideological stance, or > philosophical pose to justify itself? Doris's book is both refreshingly > free of the sentimentality of love but, as well, free of much of > psychology most of us -- in less extreme moments -- identify with it. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:35:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Little Review: Kevin Davies' Comp. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Kevin Davies Comp. Edge Books $12.50 ISBN: 1--890311--08--1 110 pp. "What gets _me_ is / the robots are doing / _my_ job, but I don't get / the _money_, / some extrapolated node / of expansion-contraction gets / my money, which I need / for _time travel_." So Davies sets the tone in his long-awaited follow-up to _Pause Button_ (Tsumani, 1990), a comic, but often melancholy mix walking the thin line between the absurdity of having utopic, progressive aspirations and a survivor's guilt in a world of opaque, socially indifferent economic commerce -- indeed, of having a value-system at all. Like many younger poets from the west coast of Canada, Davies' poetics derive from the cross-roads of "projective" speech-based verse -- his challenging, never imprecise cocktail of alternating line-lengths, swift-moving fragments and page-splattered stanzas are its noticeable traces -- and language poetry, which unapologetically divorces the fragment from constraints of organic form, plunging each unit of the poem -- rhythm, word, punctuation -- into the realm of social critique. What strikes one is the elegance he brings to project; not a line is wasted, not a "white space" trampled on by some ego-driven drive to sully emptiness with authorial presence: "Yet / what if there is a perfectly natural / form, and god wants us to kiss it and talk dirty?" (49) The long central poem, "Karnal Bunt", is a sequence of single-page arrangements hanging, like a Calder mobile, just tenuously and balanced enough to maintain it tensions. But Davies isn't one to fetishize aesthetic moments, as each line is spurred on its incisive, informed comedy that would fail on HBO but cuts to the heart of the post-leftist, cerebral literary community from which he emerges. "An edited Scotch ambiance of translated Chinese reads to itself" -- a line punning on Chomskian generative grammar and the synchronicity of global economies -- would not bring down the house on the Dennis Miller Show. "Untitled Poem from the First Clinton Administration" takes the project a step further, adding the note of _duende_ -- a sort of heatedness that runs up against his constructivist leanings -- as a stream of invective aimed at the NAFTA-flattened globe and its promise and pretensions: "They don't care about the details but fuck with the structure and they'll crush your spine / A shell of other people / Reflowered / Pressed into action / Figures of demented nostalgia / With diplomas, credit histories / Unbridgeable gaps where their eyes should be / The cramp as such / Because it is written / Veins in the forearms of Satan / Like unanswered mail in a bag of donuts / The entire earth / Trembles in the throes of its decision-making process" (85). Davies' humor -- like the best of the counter-culture sixties -- aims from the darker corners of the room, shattering the false light of economic progress and globalization. Nonetheless, he is not without light himself, bursting from the clashes of social contradiction and a not-defeated utopic urge: "Why be sad? / Kissinger will die / before they can upload him." (49) _Comp._ is one of the best books of poetry to have emerged from the alternative American poetry scene in years, and is sure to revive many a reader's faith in the possibilities of poetry to speak, construct, goad, amuse, teach and, incidentally, survive the spiritual stasis of the present time. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:44:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Little Review: Wershler-Henry's The Tapeworm Foundry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Darren Wershler-Henry The Tapeworm Foundry Anansi ISBN: 0--88784--652--1 68 pp. $14.95 (Canadian) Taking up the call of a global poetics infused with the criss-crossing of information flow, a local poetics (centered around a Toronto as you've never known it) and a need to communicate beyond the surface intensity of radical form, Wershler-Henry muscles through a single-sentence poem of possibility whose only punctuation is the conjunction "andor." Any strand of this text -- a DNA fiber for a new world of controlled chaos -- propels the reader through a corridor exquisite options and micro-narratives, like a Borges short story compacted into the moment between breaths: "[...] andor realize your imac is just a big tamagotchi andor design a transformer to use up wasted ergs of energy from excessive pressure on electric buzzers andor quit making art in order to play chinese checkers andor tattoo your poems on the back of someone else but be sure to make no spelling mistakes anor prepare to correct them in a different colour of ink andor do it all for the nookie andor delete ambiguities and then convert to specificities [...]" Billed as a "list of book proposals," Tapeworm is actually much more: a manifesto for significant and/or excessive action in a world increasingly circumscribed by middle-of-the-road politics, false notions of rationality and productivity, and the infinite hunger of a technologized economy for all the good bad (read: useless, fun, diabolic) ideas that the young, the disaffected and the inordinately talented can produce. Tapeworm's various jabs at institutions, the "bourgeois", the mainstream and closed ways of thinking are not to be ignored; this is a book that revivifies the initial burst of excitement Dadaism and other modernist forms created, but unlike much "avant-garde" work today, it is not caught up in the self-satisfying, doxical terminology of the cultural institutions -- schools, museums, even the cliques -- but wants to reach out, to expand, to take prisoners and aggressively amuse them. If the work seems juvenile and "easy," that's because the author -- who has conveniently been muscled out the back door by a totalizing process -- has sacrificed the "difficulty" (often just confusion or a hapless shield against obviousness posing as hieratic) of much experimental poetry today. If there is an overriding metaphor to how this poem operates, it may be that of information itself; at times, even the simple construct (an advance over the conjunctivitis of much late "new sentence" work, including recent portions of The Alphabet itself) breaks down as a subset of phrases separated by "or" take over (here, in a rephrasing of one of Raymond Queneau's projects): "[...] andor find ninetynine different ways to retell the story of one man accusing another man of jostling him deliberately on a crowded bus at midday but avoid all anagrams or antiphrases or alexandrines or back slang or blurbs or epentheses or gallicisms or haiku or hellenisms of litotes or logical analysis or negativities or permutations or proper names or prostheses or spoonerisms or syncopes or surprise andor [...]." Like all great literary works, Tapeworm presents some fundamental problems, mostly centered around the meaning of useless discipline -- since this is, if anything, a disciplined work (as his tourniquet approach to his Oulipian cousin suggests) -- in world whose only avenues for progress -- personal, social, and otherwise -- seem to lead inexorably into melding into the corporate whole? This book raises suspicions about everything, not the least of which is where the "author" of such a work stands, but perhaps, like in the radical performative work of Beuys and Acconci, the author is the gesture itself. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:07:35 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Re: femme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Have just returned from extended travels and begun going through accumulated emails -- only to find the startling revelation from Mr. Dillon that Senator Brooke was a "Black African American" -- Mr. Dillon's astute powers of observation and historical research are breathtaking -- "Has All-- a Codicil?" -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Department of English Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 >>Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:27:51 -0400 >>From: Richard Dillon >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>CC: >>Subject: Re: femme >> The exact idea: HRC, a prima donna used to getting her way, decided to attack Senator Edward Brooke, a Black African American, at the Wellesley convocation ceremony because she had disapproved of his position - anti rabble rousing - on anti-War demonstrations. _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:49:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Poems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey, Check out some of my work just out in these publications: Two Lines: a journal of translation Crossings 2000 issue A San Francisco based journal edited by Olivia E. Sears (distributed by Small Press Distribution) Includes a translation (by Sayan Zhambalov, Virlana Tkacz and Wanda Phipps) of a traditional Buryat-Mongolian song also translations of Ramon Gomez de La Serna, Xue Di, Victor Hugo, Hsia Yu, Yehuda Amichai, Karel Capek, Vladimir Mayakovsky and others by Richard Kostelanetz & Martin Zotta, Hil Anderson, Forrest Gander & Wang Ping and others & The July 2000 issue of Mentress Moon: a quarterly online journal by women http://www.azureweb.demon.co.uk/mentress/mentressmoon.html poetry & artwork by: Janet I Buck Julie Clark Christina Conrad Susan Gorgioski Nellie Levine Wanda Phipps Carolyn Smale The editor, j.a. ross, is a Canadian living in Edinburgh, Scotland. Wanda Phipps Check out my homepage MIND HONEY at www.users.interport.net/~wanda A honey pot of poems!!! And if you've been there already try it again--we're always adding cool new stuff! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:02:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: In defense of Doug/ Baraka/Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That "The Merchant of Venice" is an anti-semitic play, that Shakespeare=20 believes different people have different placess in the chain of being are=20 obvious to me. If these qualities make Doug hate Shakespeare, that doesn't=20 make him a wacko. (Doug, does really S's language leave you cold or do you=20 just hate him?)=20 As for the thought police and unified front argument: a literary conference=20 is not a caucus, nobody is voting for anybody. Ideally, the purpose of such=20= a=20 conference (besides boozing and meeting friends one doesn't see otherwise),=20 it seems to me, is to hash out ideas. I wasn't at Orono, but the concept of=20 "building bridges" is a bit gaga. Writing is more about distinctions rather=20 than consensus. A confrontation similar to the one between Baraka and Watten (and Perloff?)=20 occurred between Baraka and Eliot Weinberger and Eileen Myles at the Poetry=20 Project a few years ago. When Weinberger said Communist writing was bad and=20 conservative and experimental writing good and revolutionary, Baraka hit the= =20 roof. Obviously, Baraka doesn't think "revolutionary writing" of the Languag= e=20 School isn't the same of political revolution either. =20 Now a belated response to Austin and Davis for their thoughts on my Barthes=20 post" >I know Murat's commentary was meant for you, Brent, but if I may chime >in. I >have enormous respect for Murat's productions and do not intend to agree >or >disagree with him here. But I do wish to point out that love, whether >homo >or hetero, does not escape conceptualization for us. Love is a subsemiotic= s >within the larger field of language. It is a word, an idea.=20 Bill, of course your reply is the classical argument against my attempt to=20 create a dialectic between writing and what is outside writing (I suppose,=20 the non- existent universe of the signifieds). My problem with this argument= =20 is that it is tautological. If everything is semiotics, nothing is semiotics= .=20 Semiotics itself is a word with a historical shelf life, with its own web of= =20 illusions, which soon (and none too soon) we may discard. My even more basic= =20 problem with your argument is that it denies Alice the ability to scream tha= t=20 the queen's court is only a pack of cards, that one can awake from its sway=20 by choosing to do so. As a mathematician Dodson knows that a closed system=20 (of language, of mathematics) is like a dream (overstaying its welcome, a=20 nightmare). One can not argue with it; one can only wake up from it. One further point: I don't think the anti-thesis of semiotics or=20 structuralism is post-structuralism, the framework within which the changes=20 in Barthes are seen (Derrida acknowledges this fact in relation to Foucault'= s=20 treatment of Descartes but no further). I think these isms are variations=20 within the same system, the true anti-thesis of which begins with the=20 assertion (blasphemous no doubt) that "the signified as an indipendent=20 reality exists." Let me try to put in plain English what I think Barthes' thrilling=20 originality in a few of his later essays lies. Barthes tries to create an=20 anarchic, nihilistic poetics which focuses on, elucidates, gives speech to=20 the "random" impulses of the pleasure principle, and which encompasses the=20 totality of the reading or photographic experience, including the mind's=20 wanderings from the page (the page or a photograph as a framed entity=20 disappears). He does so by creating an interior space of the mind's eye, a=20 meditative space, where the eye gets in direct contact with words. Because=20 the arrangement of words in this space is not rational, but extremely=20 tangential, the mind is forced into reverie around and across this words.=20 This space is the dialectical other, the Sufi space of divine light, the=20 "non-existent" realm of the "signified." The idea of absolute equilibrium among alternatives is crucial in the=20 reader's meditative/improvisational entry into this space. In "Loyola"=20 Barthes points out that the last step in Loyola's steps of meditation is the= =20 mind contemplating an absolute balance of alternatives, which forces the min= d=20 to "choose" to enter the field/space of divine light. This is also the space= =20 of Twombly's scribbles, of my "Io's Song," for instance, pieces such as=20 "Venezuela" or "Subversion of What Is Seen in the Visible." Particularly, it= =20 is the visual/verbal space of photography. The signified is embedded in the=20 photographic experience because of its camera obscura structure, implying a=20 prior light, of "the other." A medium where words and the eye fuse, photogra= ph y is the dialectical anti-thesis of the semiotic language paradigm (whether=20 one calls it structuralism, post structuralism or whatever). It is the mediu= m=20 which takes us out of it. Let me make another claim: The treasure trove of "The Arcades Project" may b= e=20 our central text for the next fifty years. Understood in its totality, in=20 true dialectic fashion, this book about Paris obliterates French=20 Cartesianism. I am not sure Barthes could have written his essay on=20 Eisenstein's film stills without W. Benjamin's thoughts on photography. b) "Say what? You don't read campiness into Mythologies? (Not to speak of th= e erotics of the book on love.)" You are right, Jordan. Now that you mention it, camp themes are in=20 "Mythologies" (American wrestling is one I remember. There must be others, a= m=20 I right?). In his later writing, Barth relates them to the eye, to decoratio= n=20 (Ert=E9, for instance). He gets rid of the earlier semiotic treatment. Thank= s=20 for the congratulations about the book. Ciao. Murat Nemet-Nejat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:14:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: What a maroon! In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000708092737.00a45810@pop3.zipworld.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I always thought that Bugs' use of "maroon" was a deliberate mispronunciation of "moron," but the OED has these interesting uses of the word: "1. A large kind of sweet chestnut native to Southern Europe; also, the tree bearing this nut. 2. A particular kind of brownish-crimson or claret color. 3. A coal-tar die obtained from the resinous matters formed in the manufacture of magenta. 4. A firework composed of a small cubical box of pasteboard, wrapped round with twine and filled with gunpowder; it is intended to imitate in exploding the report of a cannon. 5. One of a class of Negroes, originally fugitive slaves, living in the mountains and forests of Dutch Guiana and the West Indies. 6. A pleasure party, especially a hunting or fishing excursion of the nature of a picnic but of longer duration. 7. A person who is marooned. 8. To be lost in the wilds. 9. To put a person ashore and leave him on a desolate island or coast (as was done by the buccaneers and pirates) by way of punishment. 10. Of slaves: to escape from service and take to the woods and mountains. 11. To camp out for several days on a pleasure party. 12. To idle; 'hang about.'" But I think the "moron" mispronunciation is the most likely. Ken Rumble At 09:29 AM 7/8/2000 +1000, you wrote: >In a recent post, Ron Henry used the phrase "What a maroon." > >I'd like to know the etymology of this saying. I know Bugs Bunny made it >widely popular, but whence does it come? > >Is it a deliberate mispronunciation of "moron"? > >Is it a private thing of Tex Avery's? > >Anyone? > >John Tranter, Sydney >from John Tranter > Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html > Ancient history - the late sixties - at > http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/tranter/index.html >______________________________________________ > 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia > tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:02:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Weinberger says "Icky!" To Orono MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For a rather bizarre putdown on the Orono conference written by Eliot Weinberger (who I don't think was in attendance), go to http://www.exquisitecorpse.org/issue_5/critical_urgencies/weinberg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:58:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit So sorry to hear this To all: Take a look at the latest (I think) Rain Taxi for an interview with Madame Molinaro. She's a brilliant spirit, indeed. Tisa ---------- >From: Charles Bernstein >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) >Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000, 1:46 PM > > I forward here a message I received from Raymond Federman -- a note he sent to > Ron Sukenik, Editor of the American Book Review. I am sending this to the list > with Raymond's permission. I haven't been able to locate her year of birth. > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:19:50 EDT > From: Raymond Federman > > charles this is what I wrote to ron today about ursule > > Ron > > I just learned that Ursule Molinaro died today -- she was one of us -- a real > writer who refused to compromise. She was also a fine artist. But for me > she will remain one of the most astuce numerologists. One evening in a > restaurant in the village [I think Marianne Hauser was there too -- another > one of our great cotemporaries] Ursule deciphered for me the numbers in my > name and she told me the whole story of my life - -past present future. She > was not read enough. But perhaps now she will be. > > I feel sad. I don't know why really. I didn't know her that well. > I read her some. > > I hope ABR will make mention of her changing of tenses > > you may even print my little statement above about her as an homage to her. > > Federman > > > > ____________________________ > > from McPherson and Co's online catalog, followed by a list of books they > publish > http://www.mcphersonco.com/authors/umolinar.html: > > Ursule Molinaro is the author of thirteen novels, a number of widely produced > one-act plays, three volumes of non-fiction, and hundreds of short stories. Her > novels and stories have been published in England, France, and Japan, as well > as the U.S. Recipient of awards and fellowships from the McDowell Foundation, > the National Endowment for the Arts, the New York Foundation for the Arts, and > the PEN American Center, Ms. Molinaro also translates from four languages, > including works by Hermann Hesse, Dino Buzzati, Nathalie Sarraute, Phillipe > Sollers, Uwe Johnson, Rheinhard Lettau, Audiberti, and films by Jean Luc-Godard > and Agnes Varda. She is also an artist (her paintings and collages appear on > her McPherson titles), dramatist, translator, and acrosticist. Ursule Molinaro > lives in New York City with her cat, Owlbear. > > Contemporary Authors gives this bibliography: > > > POETRY > > Rimes et raisons, Regain (Monte Carlo), 1954. > Mirrors for Small Beasts, Noonday, 1960. > > NOVELS > > L'Un pour l'autre, translation from the English manuscript by Edith > Fournier, Julliard (Paris), 1964, manuscript published as The Borrower: > An Alchemical Novel, Harper (New York City), 1970. > Green Lights Are Blue: A Pornosophic Novel, New American Library > (New York City), 1967. > > Sounds of a Drunken Summer, Harper, 1969. > > The Autobiography of Cassandra, Princess and Prophetess of Troy, > Archer Editions Press (Danbury, CT), 1979. > > Positions with White Roses, McPherson (New Paltz, NY), 1983. > > The New Moon with the Old Moon in Her Arms: A True Story > > Assembled from Scholarly Hearsay, Women's Press Ltd. (London), > 1990, McPherson (Kingston, NY), 1993. > > Power Dreamers: The Jocasta Complex, McPherson, 1994. > > > COLLECTIONS > Encores for a Dilettante, Braziller (New York City), 1978. > Bastards: Footnotes to History (two short stories; illustrated), Treacle > Nightschool for Saints, Second Floor, Ring Bell: 11 Short Stories, > Archer Editions Press, 1981. > Thirteen: Stories, McPherson, 1989. > A Full Moon of Women: 29 Word Portraits of Notable Women from > Different Times and Places, Dutton (New York City), 1990. > > NONFICTION > The Zodiac Lovers, Avon (New York City), 1969. > Life by the Numbers: A Basic Guide to Learning Your Life through > Numerology, Morrow (New York City), 1971. > > PLAYS > The Abstract Wife, Hill & Wang (New York City), 1961. > Breakfast Past Noon (one-act), published in New Women's Theatre, > Random House (New York City), 1977. > > Also author of one-act plays The Engagement, After the Wash, and The > Sundial, all published or produced; author of unpublished and unproduced plays > "The Mine" (one-act)," Antiques" (one-act), "The Great Emancipation," and > "The Happy Hexagon." > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:45:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) In-Reply-To: <200007122049.e6CKngH26836@nico.bway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I forward here a message I received from Raymond Federman -- a note he sent to >Ron Sukenik, Editor of the American Book Review. I am sending this >to the list >with Raymond's permission. I haven't been able to locate her year of birth. The person who'd know is Joseph McElroy. I would be a while back, though. She had plays produced as long ago as 1960. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:42:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: "Let us struggle together!" > From: David Baptiste Chirot > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. > > Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at > such a great cost. > > In all senses of that word, cost-- > > In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is > eternal vigilance" > and the license plates read > "Live Free or Die" > > The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware > from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep > like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance > which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. > > The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be > peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all > too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for > blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a > "reasoned > discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and > debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, > upward lifted eyes and the like. > > It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at > putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned > with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter > rhetoric. > > The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the > self-proclaimed > openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. > > Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum > can't seem to get > reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. > > One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one > respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the > silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. > > Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise > and > more noise. > > Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe > altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for > you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a > remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and > the like. > > One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding > the posts to others,so they, > too can return the messages--and > the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own > returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off > like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. > > > In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante > man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding > back. > > "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" > > Terminal silence--or terminal overload. > > "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" > > --dbchirot > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:44:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: a note on list etiquette In-Reply-To: <26.7be8a59.26980842@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, as I said, my posts make good reading. It is difficult, but necessary, to fight the BORG. > From: Joseph Massey > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 00:29:54 EDT > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: a note on list etiquette > > mark prejsnar - > > As far as I can tell my name (Joseph Massey) is tucked beside my e-mail > address > in the message. So what difference does it make that the e-mail address > doesn't hint at who I am? And who cares who I am? I signed onto this list > expecting some back&forth about poetry / poetics, and announcements of > readings and publications. > > I didn't realize it was such a CLIQUE, with so much petty bullshit scattered > around. Who cares about this Dillon's messages? Everyone opposed to what he > has to say, and makes that opposition known on the list, has done so very > passionately. They state he's doing it for attention and all the while > they're soaking him in it. > > Personally, I'd rather read Dillon's messages than another bad poem by Alan > Sondheim --- but I'm not about gagging people. > > Leave the Dillon posts alone, and he'll probably stop posting. > > Signed, > Joseph Massey > > << Having been on the list between 4 and 5 years, i have a request (and > an observation)... In the last 8 months or so, messages like this one > have proliferated: the poster is not incredibly well known to > everyone on the list (oftern hasn't been active on it for very long) > ; and they do not sign their post in any way. (tho they often say > very aggressive, self-dramatizing sorts of things).... > > i am left to conclude that this person is, > "Derbadumdoo@AOL.COM"...Which probably doesn't leave most of us any > the wiser...it's no help to me, for sure. > > One of the problems is that e-mail address are coming to less often > incorporate significant parts of a person's name; another, is the > gradual seeping onto the list of the very slap-dash conventions which > have long been developing on the net in general..... > > But for most of the list's existence, there has been a tendency for > people to know who they're addressing, and to make it clear who's > speaking..... i think it would be great if people who join *this* > list be encouraged to adopt such a style, even tho they've learned > hit-and-run reflexes elsewhere.... > > Just a thought. > > mark prejsnar > @lanta >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:12:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Andy Levy's Paper Head Last Lyrics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Andy Levy Paper Head Last Lyrics 110 pp. Roof Books 0--937804--83--5 Levy sets out upon his poetic project with an ethics of observation and agitation, setting out with no definable goals but with a quasi-Buddhist, quasi-materialist calling to be in the world, moment-by-moment, recording its contradictions and, when there is beauty, its necessity and how it is learned: "A surfer in methodological self-consciousness / forward, not permanent, sweet, not lasting / to wipe clear tihs screen with / some cloth of disparity / What we will try to become, that labor / curious about each / Not curious about God, or sexual mores." (69) The idiom in the long title poem which takes up most of this book is somewhere between Williams' Asphodel and the fluid, polyglot and cross-spliced rhetorical strategies of Barrett Watten's Progress; Levy never sounds entirely like he's "speaking" to one singular figure, but this poem-including-history seems poignant in a way that suggests the Modernist, never entirley submitting itself to the rigors of method or foregrounded structure. Indeed, Levy is willfully "transcendental," not minding to point the eye up toward a "God" or an ideal otherness, even if it is one he doesn't choose to name: "Did you write the great line to take everyone / to another earth," (69) he writes, and later, as if turning directly on his Language poet heritage: "A philosophy of pissing off the other side / abandoning the secular car / making and unmaking time."(74) Later, however, he takes shots at what might be called the subtone of transcendental philoshophy in mainstream, class-defined American culture: "A memory of light / The turd of transcendence establishes a hillside estate: / Transcendence Hill Club / Croquet is the game of choice for its ladies / All the members are ladies at / Transcendence Hill" (52) The tone is primarily meditative, but occasionally the "news" breaks in (not to mention the occasional Andrews-esque obscenity-as-direct-address) to trouble the isolation of this mind. The worst one can say about the poem is that its politics, when they take center-stage, seem undeveloped; one section riffs on potential lines of a Nixon biography (as if Nixon, and later Kissinger, were the figures most needing debunking in the world today), and some targets for a sort of name-calling include the GOP and the Democratic National Convention ("Troglodytes and Neanderthals"), the NRA, and the military, while passing up the contradiction inherent in some of the Protestant "good-works" philosophy of the poem -- the Poundian "make it new" -- and their linkages to the basic power structures of these institutions. But as a whole, "Paper Head Last Lyrics" along with the beautiful essay "An Indespensible Coefficient of Esthetic Order" -- with their guerilla attacks on the problematic rise of "virtual realities," and hence virtual moralities, in a de-spiritualized America -- presents the image of a complex, invested mind at play among words, and with a poetic ability that is rare. Levy, with his very readable, honest and public new book, is one more proof of the continuing validity of writing in the modernist tradition today. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:16:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Adeena Karasick's Dyssemia Sleaze MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Adeena Karasick Dyssemia Sleaze Talonbooks 0--88922--434--X Canadian poet Karasick continues her pop-inflected, extroverted and libidinal investigations into a deconstructive, pun- and = anagram-motivated poetics in her most visually compelling, if somewhat overdone, book. A high-end production -- one of the few books of poetry to boast full = color, glossy pages through most of its contents -- Karasick uses photographs, drawings, multiple typefaces, the classic spatial accoutrements of "projective verse" and just about the kitchen sink to propel her words across, under and on top of the page. The sequence "Menaheh Yehuda" = treats the syllable as an erotically charged node or synapse, as each word is jarred forward by the phonemic contours of the preceding, trashing any notions lyrical cleanliness and opting for the morally "obscene" = literary enactment of flesh-against-flesh: "And, as normative tilts ooze in a choreography of tropic / blot clotters / a cotillion of many cullers, isolata eros swigs in / blunt pulses & skins the surface of / her = dimpled limits / fermented in riggish gashings / grasped in spronged frottage ruffled fetchings / fraught with h=E2ute conduits." (23) "Improbable = Grammars V" takes the "wall" (or, at times, specifically Jerusalem's Western = Wall) as its theme, a center around which Karasick assembles, with a Benjaminian = nod, tons of quotes and images involving historicity and reading. Though = this seems the most labor-intensive section of the book, it is probably the = least successful, as a series of what have become postmodern cliches -- the language of fissures, simulteneity, non-linear and paratactic grammar, virtuality, multiple identities, puns using parenthetical le(tt)ers and s/lashes, dislocations, etc. -- abound, and the cumulative effect of = the clashing color images and attention-deficit typefaces -- technicolor dreamcoats for the prose of the unadorned letter -- begin to strike one = as a good idea gone awry, or going nowhere in particular. Some of the most difficult passages to physically read don't yield much news, though = often the contrast of theoretical language and the slap-happy graphemes = conspire to create some intriguing hermeneutic whirlpools: "Exposing the = fullness of speech, s/he mouths (muths) all the letters of the Hebrew alphabet, and becomes the writ(h)ing, the wound, the word. S/he swallows, devours = and rends the world apart and at the same time (as a s/cite for ingesting, assimilating) becomes one with the wor(l)d thus, with a collapse of interiority, s/he transgresses herself and becomes an assemblage of = surface disruptions." (56) Perhaps, as an example of tossing everything = against the "wall" of the page and seeing what comes back, "Grammars" is successful = as an exhibitionistic, youthful, and near-hysterical display of ambition = and desire, though a more thoughtful, specific experiment, with the goal of aesthetic solutions for the new technolgoies (in the manner of = MacLuhan's books, or the Coup de Des) might have been more satisfying, and perhaps monumental. However, Karasick's energy can be infectious, and Dyssemia Sleaze is unlike any book of poetry published recently, turning its = back on (and turning over) the more conventional, nearly sanctified values of = both the lyric and the visual poem (mired in its own traditions), and in the meantime looking toward the future. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:11:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: From David Bromige Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-Sender: dcmb@mail.metro.net (Unverified) >Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:22:33 -0800 >To: dbkk@sirius.com >From: David Bromige >Subject: Kevin, can you fwd to the List? >Status: U > >Kevin Killian has been kind enough to forward to me some of the Orono >Reports from this list, a list I unsub'd from so that when my time in Orono >ended, I should not come back to a virtual heap of e-mail, but that has so >far failed to respond to my attempts to re-sub, perhaps because the >Listmeister is camping in the moosey woods of Maine, or perhaps because he >has cut me off in the belief that it was me, and not those people in the >other room in our suite, whose names I never caught, who used his >toothpaste and drank his beer, I hope not in that order..... > >Else I shd sooner have posted this minor correction : the parties in >Twitchell Dorms were not hosted by me, but by Keith Tuma the Incomparable, >a man able to conjure scholars and poets to stay up "just for ten more >minutes" (following those wonderful readings that went as the program said >"from 11 pm until exhaustion"), but for ten minutes that turned into two, >three, or four hours of, not only carousing, but engaging discussions >spurred by the day's info overload. Me, I was simply one of the many >campers made happy by Keith's knack for bringing people together (made >happy also by the tireless Canadians and ex-Canadians (Tom Orange) my >nextdoor neighbors who made generous beer-runs). Having always believed >that one function of poetry is to draw us together in conviviality, I >welcomed such hearty evidence. > >I've just come home from a daytrip to UC Santa Cruz, probably 300 miles RT, >with Bob Grenier to present our poetry to Kasey Mohammed's class, and am >too tired (where are you tonight, Ls and Gs of the allnite seminar?) to >give many analytic impressions of the conference, but will say that the >Baraka-Watten friction doesn't dominate my memories of our five days >together as it does the memories of some other reporters. In retrospect, it >has the inevitability of an accident. I didnt like to hear my friends who >got dragged down the steps of Sproul Hall, heads banging on each step, then >to be crammed into holding cells at Santa Rita, denominated >"pseudo-radicals" by Baraka, when they had been campaigning to advocate on >campus to force Berkeley and Oakland employers to hire African-Americans. >What's so pseudo about that? Maybe I missed the point. He couldnt have >been saying that. How about starting "clean-slate" : What can I do for you? >What can you do for me? Sixties people : Only this moment is existence! > > So much else remains vivid. My first chipmunk, spotted by the little wood >: what colors! in what design! A number of the late-night readers, among >them Liz Willis, Jeanne Heuving, Jacques Debrot, Carla Harryman, Aldon >Neilsen, Marjorie Welish, Kasey Mohammed, and Keith Tuma (with Bill Howe >doing backup). The power and sensitivity of Bowering's voice, reading from >his 70's book _Allophanes_ , a voice like a string quartet plus baby grand. >The revelation of Alan Golding's marvelous balladeer voice. The harmonies >of Lee Ann Brown and Kristin Prevallet, weaving around the American >folksong. Five of us old guys sitting around on Night One, come across a >continent to compare prostate-specific antigen readings. A table-full of us >at the lobster dinner, shouting info about hearing-aids. The lobsters >themselves---why rated so highly as a dish? I'd sooner eat a mobster. >Easier, too. What else comes to mind out of the mist? Oh, I know; the >Brobdignagian proportions of the Orono campus, and of so many of its >denizens---what do they put in the water there? > >And it was fun to introduce Bowering to Maria Damon, and see fiction melt >before fact. Wish you'd been there, Rachel Loden. > >Bedtime. David ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:33:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Frey Subject: LOVE, SEX, and TRANSGRESSION Comments: To: LeonLoo@aol.com, mike2little@yahoo.com Comments: cc: native@libertynet.org, qeli@ccp.cc.pa.us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Friday July 21st at 8 p.m. at the Asian Arts Initiative, 1315 Cherry St., 2nd floor (215) 557-0455 for more info or reservations. LOVE, SEX, and TRANSGRESSION -- a RAP SERIES event featuring provocative video clips, poetry and prose from a range of perspectives around the theme of love and sex that crosses beyond the lines. The writer-columnist Quinn Eli and poets Jeff Loo and Mytili Jagannathan tackle taboos with candor, irony and some humor --a unique event that could only happen at the ASIAN ARTS INITIATIVE. Richard Frey 500 South 25th Street Philadelphia, PA 19146 215-735-7156 richardfrey@dca.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:07:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Readings--Coming in July MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich New York City July 15 Jean Lambert, Shoshana Wingate July 22 Deborah Emin, Joe Juracek, Patrick Phillips July 29 Tanya Rubbak, Lily Saint The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder, Patrick Donnelly, Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Curators Martha Rhodes, Director For additional information contact Michael Broder (212) 802-1752 The Ear Inn is an historic pub located at 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich, in Manhattan. There has been a reading series in this space for decades. Past readers include Mary Jo Bang, Laure-Anne Bosselaar, Jane Cooper, Ellen Dudley, Richard Foerster, David Lehman, Geoffrey O'Brien, Marie Ponsot, D. Nurkse, and Susan Wheeler The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of Hudson. The closest trains are the 1-2-3-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. Michael Broder ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:07:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cynthia Kane Tedesco Subject: BARROW STREET POETRY CONTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ANNOUNCING THE FIRST BARROW STREET POETRY PRIZE The winner's poetry will be featured in ten page-section of Barrow Street. In addition, the winner receives $250 and becomes eligible for a featured reading at Barrow Street Reading Series IN GREENWICH VILLAGE, NEW YORK Guidelines: Send a brief cover letter, no more than 15 pages of poetry, a check for $10. and SASE for results. Barrow Street, Inc. PO Box 2017 Old Chelsea Station New York, NY 10113-2017 Deadline: December 1, 2000 all finalists will be considered for publication Don't forget to date our publication party for 'Barrow Street Summer 2000' on July 20, 2000, at 7-9PM at Fordham University, 60th & 9Ave NYC (2nd floor), lots of wine & friends! Readings by ROBERT KELLY AND JEANNE MARIE BEAUMONT, $1 0 admission includes the issue! Hope to see you there! The Editors: Patricia Carlin, Peter Covino, Lois Hirshkowitz, Melissa Hotchkiss, Cynthia Tedesco ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:20:32 +0000 Reply-To: …åøw@ÿ.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: …åøw@ÿ.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Belated in the Maine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Have been greatly enjoying the varied takes on the Orono conference that have appeared here -- and Kevin, I especially want to thank you for telling me what John Weiners said in his reading -- I was only able to make out three sentences of the whole thing -- couple more quick notes: Baraka was indeed elsewhere during Perloff's plenary talk -- It seems that somebody more mischievous than accurate told him in the hall way that O'Hara was being dissed inside, which is probably why his "bedbug" curse was preceded by an "if" -- The "Pimping" remark made after Watten's talk was likewise preceded by an odd distinction between second person plural and singular, though, as I remarked to any number of fellow conferees, if anybody was trying to pimp the 60s for a better job they were standing on the wrong corner up there in Orono -- On Tolson -- the influence he had on others is not at all hard to locate -- see Baraka's preface to WHYs, or William Melvin Kelley's letters after the Fisk Writers Conference, or Jayne Cortez, etc etc etc -- and (ahem) one MIGHT read "Melvin B. Tolson and the Detrritorialzation of Modernism" which forms a chapter of WRITING BETWEEN THE LINES by that Nielsen guy who refused to attend the lunchtime continuation of the Watten/Baraka fest out of sheer pique and hunger -- AND an extra thanks to each of you who kindly gave me a lift back to the Black Bear at day's end and maybe the reason that only one person claims to have mentioned the name Don L. Lee is that everybody else called him Haki Madhabuti? and THANKS to all plenarists and concurrents who gave me enough leads and citations to keep me busy for the next several months -- some great papers and fine friendly debates -- "Has All-- a Codicil?" -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Department of English Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:20:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Orono post-mortems.. In-Reply-To: <396BF6EF.FC3D9C0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" like marjorie, i thought kevin killian's conference report was something of a work of art... for which i'm grateful, you bet... i too think it oughtta be published (someplace or other), so folks who aren't on this list can benefit from and enjoy same... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 02:14:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: Cheap Anthology In-Reply-To: <200002140506.AAA03509@smtp2.fas.harvard.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello all -- Not sure if such a thing exists, but I'm looking for a good anthology of poetry suitable for high school students that costs (wait for it) less than ten dollars. Does anybody have any suggestions? Best, Simon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:44:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: what a maroon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi John, And a maroon was also a little exploding box in the 18th Century...a kind of gunpowder cracker. Wow!...they shouted...wahat a maroon! Cheers, Pam ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:00:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Berkson Subject: Re: Weinberger says "Icky!" To Orono In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, Daniel Kane. What's this I read about"systematic exclusion" of di Prima, Blackburn, Oppenheimer from St. Marks in the 1960s. Some kind of joke? Best, Bill Berkson on 7/12/00 4:02 PM, Daniel Kane at dkane@PANIX.COM wrote: > For a rather bizarre putdown on the Orono conference written by Eliot > Weinberger (who I don't think was in attendance), go to > > http://www.exquisitecorpse.org/issue_5/critical_urgencies/weinberg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:31:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: Orono MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Amen to Marjorie's comments on Kevin Killian's memoir that was so incredibly delicious and almost better than the Orono conference itself that I feel was probably the best conference I've ever attended. I didn't hear a bad paper and all the poetry readings were marvelous (even Wieners' that I could barely hear in the back of the room) affairs. As for Tolson--I confess to not having read him (I am ordering Harlem Gallery and plan to read it carefully)--Bob Perelman's useful presentation of HG for this first time reader of the work brought James Joyce to mind. I am still excited by a few brilliant papers I heard and by seeing many people in the flesh, but perhaps most of all I now look forward to Tolson (as well as to a thorough reading of Ronald Johnson, and also to some work related to papers by Dean Taciuch and Peter Middleton on science and poetry). Burt Kimmelman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:54:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Act of Mourning: Exhaust While Mother Dies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Act of Mourning: Exhaust While Mother Dies diary exhausted and worried about the pace I'm keeping - but then trying to work diary nerve-wracking exhaustion; we're supposed to go to Pennsyl- vania to see my diary tice I repeat myself in this diary - issues of exhaustion, worry, prepar- diary Tue Oct 19 201441 EDT 1999 I want to write about exhaustion, this almost diary as usual, exhausted as usual, moody as usual. Been reading Giorgio Agam- diary provincialism, exhaus- tion, ennui, and a tiny corner of the world that diary exhaustion seems literally completely, my body _bone_ tired. diary I am very exhausted. I'm looking at a book of Japanese emaki, picture diary fantasy, exhaus- tion is very very real. I tremble; my muscles ache. I can diary point of exhaustion. Right now the loft is absolutely quiet; there is diary extending the idea clumsily, as if I can no longer think, too exhausted diary of things, trying not to forget anything. It's been exhausting. No real diary rising and falling, staying awake, feeling dizzy, getting exhausted again, diary of that, I will die from exhaustion if I resonate in such a fashion, I diary of Kanji, trying to memorize things. The difficulties have exhausted me; diary have nothing to say, have exhausted myself. My interests range from the diary well. So went back online to Trace, all this exhausting, and I am there diary until the exhaustion ends - by January 3 once again, we'll be full deep diary too deeply exhausted to say anything intelligent but wonder if I'm fever- diary in with his wife. My exhaustion has deepened which worries me. I wrote to diary I can be of use without exhausting myself. diary to be the result of exhaustion; the last few days, the nightmares have diary twilight zone and get tired of exhausted or grown-up friends. Reading diary control - just completely exhausted, compounded by the usual worries about le sleep; always exhausted, my judgamant ls not of tha bast. Thls ls my world le My writing veers through tired Jennifer, exhausted Nikuko, worn-out Julu, lf I am very exhausted. I'm looking at a book of Japanese emaki, picture lf fantasy, exhaustion is very very real. I tremble; my muscles ache. I can lf ly to exist as a token for the diffused or exhausted, the turbulent. Nei- lg 10344 Nikuko lies exhausted on a blanket wearing a pink tutu lh ( nikuko lies on the couch, naked, her body twitching, exhausting from lh ennui, out of exhaustion and detumescence, out of irritation lh warmer; Nikuko, exhausted, fell back down into a deep sleep, enlightened, lh exhausts itself, everyone is exhausted. lh exhaustion, as if waking from dreaming to work. returning to dream, or lh the torii, and seemed exhaus- ted. Nikuko said, Look, it sees no land, even lh end of allocated block, memory exhausted, memory exhausted, memory is lh Why can't I sleep? I walk around exhausted every day. I'm like a zombie; memory exhausted sleep pos- sible, the exhaustion without bounds. Alan tries sleep remedy neurotic and insomniac typing away exhausted at a midnight computer _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:47:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Balestrieri, Peter" Subject: For John Tranter: What a Maroon and the Perils of Polysemy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi John, Molly Schwartzburg and Stephen Ellis are both correct and erudite regarding the word "maroon." I feel, however, that in this case Bugs Bunny's use is straight from Manhattan and has nothing to do (intertexuality and polysemy aside) with fugitive slaves or pirates forced into early retirement. Bugs also pronounces "idiot" as "idjit" and "imbecile" as "imbesilly." This is all part of the early Bugs' NY origins (revealed in a number of cartoons - see "A Hare Grows in Manhattan") and corresponds to many of the Warner animals and characters speaking with a NY accent. It may have been the vision of Tex Avery, the later Bugs directors, or, it could have been the idea of Mel Blanc, the voice for most of the Warner characters. I hope this adds to the discussion. Regards, Pete Balestrieri ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:32:23 PDT Reply-To: jbleheup@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jbleheup@SFU.CA Subject: LAUNCH PARTY/READING for JUDY 3 Comments: To: pulley-press@sfu.ca Comments: cc: authorized@chickmail.com Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 LAUNCH PARTY/READING for JUDY 3 JULY 22nd 8pm ARTSPEAK GALLERY JUDY 3 is: CHRIS WALKER AARON VIDAVER REG JOHANSON CHRIS TURNBULL PETE MEDWAY BOB CLARK ROGER FARR STEVEN WARD Judy 3 is an ongoing writing and publishing project that examines the role of traditional print formats in the formation of our identities as readers and writers. Through uncoventional design and packaging strategies Judy proposes a critical reading of the formal qualities of “the journal” and the creative practises it perpetuates and excludes. Smothered in layers of transparent sealant, Judy 3 contains the work of 8 writers and their response to editorial “demand” in the form of deadlines, assigned topics, and space constraints. Through their reworking of images and quotations culled from architectural texts contributors address the roles of restraint, ergonomics, product display, natural history, and pedagogy in the ordering of our lives as consumers and producers of culture. By turns sarcastic, ambiguous, incomprehensible, and ethereal, Judy 3 assumes an awkward posture in response to the competing imperatives it embodies. For more info email: jbleheup@sfu.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:38:49 -0400 Reply-To: alterra@home.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Dowker Subject: Alterran URL Comments: To: british-poets@mailbase.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please note that The Alterran Poetry Assemblage is now located at http://members.home.net/alterra/ (previous URL officially defunct). I should also mention that the journal is archived at the National Library of Canada ( http://collection.nlc-bnc.ca/100/201/300/alterran/latest/content.htm ) . David Dowker alterra@home.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 22:53:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: What I Saw at the Orono Conference 2000, Part IV (final installment) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable By Saturday morning our horizons started to shrink, as we noticed=20 that all panels, formerly held in many different college buildings,=20 were from now on to be given only in one building, "Corbett." With=20 this miniaturization of scale we began to notice that some of us had=20 slipped away. Maybe a cue from the popular TV program "Survivor"?=20 Anyway on Saturday at 8:30 I was up and at em, moderating a panel on=20 Lorine Niedecker, with three panelists all of whom came, as I did,=20 from California-Susan Dunn, Tiffany Shockley and Elizabeth Willis.=20 Is California the center of the Niedecker nexus now? One version of=20 it anyhow. Susan Dunn pulled out a terrifyingly thick stack of large=20 index cards and proceeded to read Niedecker as a nature writer in the=20 vein of Rachel Carson or Aldo Leopold or Thoreau. What was=20 interesting most about this reading was the specificity of detail La=20 Dunn was able to dig up concerning particular legal and societal=20 challenges faced by Wisconsin environmentalists in the 50s and 60s.=20 She showed a rare (library) copy of "North Central" that had the=20 bibliomanes in the audience drooling, asking us to consider it as a=20 work not only of collage but of recycling (I think). Liz Willis's=20 imaginative take on Niedecker concentrated on that one poem, oh, what=20 is it called, but you will remember there's a watcher in the woods=20 who comes out from hiding to witness a church wedding? Anyhow Liz=20 connected this poem (and others, like "For Mary Shelley") to=20 Niedecker's use of two Hollywood films, James Whale's Universal=20 "Frankenstein" and Clarence Brown's "Possessed" (from MGM). (Is the=20 final line in the woods-wedding poem "Possessed"?) Both films oddly=20 date from 1931, evidently a banner year for moviegoing in Fort Dix.=20 Liz related the plot of "Possessed" insofar as it presaged certain=20 events in Niedecker's own life so of course I warmed up to this one=20 quick. Joan Crawford plays Marion, a lowly assembly line worker in a=20 Midwest paper box factory, who hungers for excitement and gets same=20 when she meets wealthy playboy attorney Mark Whitney (Clark Gable).=20 He's married though, so out of the deal all Joan gets is a fabulous=20 penthouse and wardrobe and a ruined reputation. You can see a)=20 Possessed is a pre-code movie and b) the Niedecker-Zukofsky story=20 laid bare? At any rate the strivings towards glamor and the high=20 life we sometimes miss when we read Niedecker's work. How about=20 Crawford's later film from her Warners noir period, remarkably enough=20 also called "Possessed," where she has that insanely strange crush on=20 Van Heflin and his whole family, breaks down to primitive theremin=20 soundtrack, winds up staggering through the streets of Los Angeles=20 with amnesia. Isn't this the Niedecker of the bewildering "For Paul"=20 poems? I'm kidding. Kind of. Also at Corbett were the next two plenary sessions, Albert Gelpi's=20 discussion of Levertov and Duncan, and Lynn Keller's survey of the=20 early poetry of Kathleen Fraser, Fanny Howe and Rosmarie Waldrop. I=20 'm afraid I had to slip out of this latter one a bit early in order=20 to gobble down some lunch before the main event, the long awaited=20 debate between Amiri Baraka and Barrett Watten. It was first of all=20 strange that the only place that could be found at short notice to=20 stage this debate was the cafeteria itself, where we had all spent so=20 many convivial hours introducing ourselves to Maine cuisine such as=20 Whoopie Pies. And in the middle of lunch hour too, so it reminded me=20 of Civics Day in high school, or even earlier, that school where you=20 brought in 3 cents and they gave you milk, but you're too young to=20 remember that. Tables cleared, Baraka and Watten sat down, with Ben=20 =46riedlander and Maria Damon (moderator) nearby, to tackle some of the=20 issues raised in the heightened space after Barrett's talk on=20 Thursday, "The Turn to Language after the 1960s." Well, I don't know=20 what to say but it was extraordinary. Two terribly brilliant men,=20 well matched in oratory, and with the stakes raised about as high as=20 they could go. And yet Baraka's contestation, that Watten-and by=20 extension almost everyone in attendance at the Conference-had judged=20 the 60s a "failure" for one reason only, to achieve safe,=20 respectable, cowardly bourgeois careers in academia, was on the face=20 of it a difficult one to prove, though it did make for some lurid=20 headlines. Before long the debate had become a series of Socratic=20 jabs, as Baraka made Watten back up before every statement to define=20 his terms. "What *is* Language Poetry, can you answer me that?"=20 "And that makes it different *how*?" So the audience was pressed=20 back, back, further into the original terms of debate. This might=20 have grown boring had not Baraka often varied his approach with a=20 different kind of questioning, sometimes jocular and comic, sometimes=20 wildly improvisational. We learned that despite all his faults Allen=20 Ginsberg had been an anti-imperialist poet ("Fuck you America and=20 your atom bomb") until a certain point in his career where Baraka had=20 found himself reluctantly parting ways with his comrade. Ginsberg=20 had fallen victim to the proto-Fascist Chungpa Rinpoche who had=20 stripped W S Merwin and his wife of their clothes and forced them to=20 appear naked. Ginsberg had also gone *too* gay to the point where he=20 came mistakenly to value gay liberation above the liberation of all=20 peoples and the anti-imperialist struggle in general. Still, Watten=20 had no right to defame Ginsberg as he had. This take on Ginsberg=20 seemed at variance with anything Watten actually had said about him=20 and, I can tell you, wasn't getting much sympathy from me. (I had a=20 sudden fantasy of directing my own production of "Dutchman," in which=20 the main characters would be played by LeRoi Jones and Frank O'Hara,=20 O'Hara as Lula, the older, vivacious, sex-mad white woman of the=20 Homintern who must, finally, be punished for her Personalist=20 importunity.) The talk grew most heated over the point about which=20 percentage of Language writers were now academics. All of you, as=20 Baraka thought? Or "3" as I heard someone call out from the=20 audience. (This issue will, or so I take it, be more fully explored=20 in Andrew Epstein's investigative article soon to be published, is it=20 in "Lingua Franca," anyway one to which I'm very much looking=20 forward.) And hadn't, Watten asked, Baraka himself taught in the=20 university system? All of a sudden it was very strange and ugly, but=20 the tape will tell the tale and I believe all those interested in=20 this magnificent passion play should avail themselves of the=20 audiotape, then play it back yourself and revel in its drama and=20 sturm und drang. At one point you'll hear Maria Damon ask Watten=20 which books of Language Poetry she could recommend to her students as=20 anti-imperialist, and he responded by describing briefly Bruce=20 Andrews' book "I Don't Have Any Paper So Shut Up, or, Social=20 Romanticism" (searching for the right title for it) and I asked him,=20 later, why he hadn't told her about his own "Progress," surely one of=20 the most beautiful, savage, moving and trenchant long poems I've ever=20 read. Finally Barrett smiled and said, "You know why." I left before the very end of the debate in order to catch the next=20 pair of readings, those of Rosmarie Waldrop and Kathleen Fraser, back=20 in the theater at "Corbett." Waldrop read first from the charming=20 "Pro and Con" poem ("positions and junctions") and then settled into=20 the meat of things with several selections from her novel "Reluctant=20 Gravities," which she described as a series of conversations=20 interrupted by meditations. "Basically it's prose poetry," she=20 hinted, and this made my soul curl up a little at the edges, since=20 the prose-poem mania that has infected the Bay Area has resulted in a=20 swarm of hideously bad writing of every stripe, but then as she began=20 to read I'm thinking, Oh thank God, this isn't prose poetry at all.=20 What can I say! It was terrific, with real characters spouting a=20 kind of miraculously eloquent and unreal dialogue like the best of=20 Oscar Wilde crossed with the oblique strategies of Marguerite Duras,=20 and so funny it would make a corpse sit up and grin. I could have=20 listened to it all afternoon, yet even while I drank it all in so=20 greedily I was on the other hand marvelling at the way in which=20 Waldrop's theatricality, that tiny, vulnerable, assured voice gave=20 one the illusion of being in the presence of someone really wise, as=20 though she'd had all the answers since birth and was dispensing them=20 with the generosity and fierceness of the Oracle. A tremendous=20 illusion like watching Ruth Draper and seemingly so effortless you=20 knew it must have taken decades of practice. On the other hand=20 Kathleen Fraser posed no answers, only more questions than you might=20 have ever guessed existed, in her equally fine reading from her=20 Selected Poems "Il Cuore." A function, I guess, of the contingency=20 in her writing, where nothing at all is stable and all is predicated=20 on the swirling masses of political and psychic energy surrounding=20 the subject. Again, she might have read these selections aloud=20 dozens of times before, and yet the awkwardness and difficulty of her=20 delivery--itself a skilled tonal gift--made them seem brand new as=20 though these had only just occurred to her, maybe last week.=20 Obviously I'm stressing the differences (between RW and KF) with too=20 heavy a hand, as though they were embodiments of Leslie Fiedler's=20 discredited "paleface" and "redskin," and obviously they don't exist=20 in this duality of warm marble and cooling lava. But anyway by the=20 time the last notes of "Wing" issued out, and Jeanne Heuving was=20 dashing in front of Kathleen to perform this Marcel Marceau time is=20 running out gesture, several sides of my nature were well sated. I=20 stumbled out into the bright sunlight and my God, there was David=20 Kellogg, having missed several days of the Conference apparently=20 while waiting for different planes to take off and having to sit up=20 all night in the Airport, finally arrived with his brother just in=20 time to give his paper at the next round of panels, a heroic voyage=20 for sure like the Relief of Mafeking. But, there I was with my=20 cigarettes but no matches and I had to get into the car for the first=20 time in days and drive up to the IGA and get some matches, and some=20 more Tab. Lee Ann Brown came with me and we idled away, feeling=20 vaguely guilty we were missing some important papers and panels, and=20 yet also with the divine sense of freedom that comes from such=20 devilry. We discussed her performance of the night before playing in=20 "Dutchman," and then who among us in Orono was the cutest and/or most=20 available, and why it's really not wise to have a poet as a boyfriend=20 but on the other hand how other kinds of people don't really make=20 good boyfriends either, because they just don't understand, and=20 before we knew it we were back in the Parking Lot running into a=20 panel on, mmm, "Marginalities." Unfortunately we must have missed Mike Basinski's paper on "Dangerous=20 Poetry of the 1960s" and wound up about halfway through Chris=20 Alexander's talk on Jack Spicer's "Billy the Kid." I gather that=20 Alexander was coming at "Billy" via a series of approaches that=20 included, to my great pleasure, a discussion of Spicer's troubled=20 relationship with the Mattachine Society, so that on the one hand (in=20 the period) you had the uplifting and sentimental love stories of the=20 Mattachine and their literary movement (say, the stories in "One,"=20 the official Mattachine handbook/zine), and on the other, you had the=20 terrifying narrative of the Senate Subcommittees on Homosexuality=20 that tied gayness to treason (both forms of "weakness" inextricably=20 linked), and "Billy the Kid" somewhere in the middle: as a kind of=20 "realism"? Lots to think about there, and then John Landry took the=20 floor and gave a paper on a poet I had never heard of before, called=20 Bob Lax. Anyone within hearing distance of John at this conference=20 now knows the details of Lax's life, but for the uninitiated he's=20 still alive, extremely old, in some Greek island, Patmos I think, but=20 once upon a time he had been the best friend not only of Ad Reinhardt=20 but of Thomas Merton and Robert Giroux, and Billie Holiday cooked for=20 him in New York. Not really a concrete poet but sort of. Nineteen=20 films have been made of his life and work. Having missed all of=20 them, I felt like I wasn't on the circuit, hadn't watched enough=20 films or maybe just too many Joan Crawford ones. Meanwhile in=20 another room at Corbett, Dodie was moderating the first panel on=20 Plath and Sexton, and I gather that Susan Gilmore, who was that very=20 pregnant woman you saw everywhere so beautifully dressed, gave a=20 presentation that involved playing an actual tape of Anne Sexton's=20 late, derided entr=E9e into performance poetry backed by a rock band=20 ("Her Kind") which captivated Dodie completely. To the point that,=20 in the days since we've come back, Dodie has gotten in touch with=20 Diane Middlebrook and found out how to get her paws on the complete=20 unreleased tapes of this strange marriage of sound and music (Harry=20 Ransom Center, University of Texas Austin I guess). (But first she=20 searched for bootleg copies on eBay.) But these, the Lax=20 presentation and the Sexton "Kind" tape, were the kinds of paper that=20 I had missed, in a way, the revelation of something entirely new or=20 previously dismissed, shored up by research and discovery. In the=20 men's room at Twitchell Village, to all kinds of noisome=20 accompaniment, Mark Scroggins related, in the perturbed tone of one=20 biographer to another, how he had attended every Zukofsky paper given=20 at the Conference, and while several of them were excellent, not one=20 of them revealed any "data," he said, pounding the urinal tap for=20 emphasis. I nodded knowing just what he meant. In the strange quiet--again, the feeling that we were being=20 abandoned, that we were shrinking, that people's rooms were empty=20 now, like Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None," I wandered=20 into Corbett again and into the theater space where, I realized=20 later, the Jay Wright panel was winding up, with Lorenzo Thomas=20 striding across the space fielding comments from the scattered=20 audience members. Then Alec Marsh stood up and ended the session in=20 order to bring on the man himself, Jay Wright. For crying out loud,=20 this guy is incredible! And I really felt like a hick having really=20 never heard of him before a few months ago when we were beginning our=20 campaign at Small Press Traffic to bring Wright to San Francisco, and=20 giovanni singleton patiently led me through the details of his life=20 and career and all his glittering prizes, without once betraying by=20 nuance or gesture how ignorant I am of this particular strain of=20 African-American poetry. (So obviously there's this double thing=20 going on here; one's hungry for what one doesn't know on the one=20 hand, and yet when confronted with that thing one's embarrassed on a=20 naked, primal level.) Anyway, coming at this relatively late spot in=20 the Conference, Jay Wright's appearance was what we show queens call=20 the "eleven o'clock number," the electrifying star-making turn that=20 you need to keep your audience from catching their last train. He=20 looked great for one thing, in this excellent suit coat and tie, and=20 he has one of those weary, amiable seen it all faces like Harold=20 Nicholas (only younger of course) (in fact watching him up close you=20 couldn't put an age to him, not really, I wonder if he ever was young=20 or was he like Dietrich the embodiment from an early age of great=20 emotional resonance and a timeless if ravaged beauty.) They say he=20 doesn't submit to interviews any more, nor will he allow his work to=20 appear in future anthologies, and as you know from my coverage here=20 this kind of star trip always appeals to me. His voice is remarkably=20 musical, and he can switch at the snap of a syllable from English to=20 Spanish and back so that the stage seemed filled with voices like=20 Prospero's island, and deeper and deeper into this world we sank so=20 when the lights came up again a great quake crossed our minds and=20 most everyone was drawn, like lemmings, down to the foot of the stage=20 where he, Jay Wright, prepared to greet his fans and sign copies of=20 his books, just I think for a closer glimpse. He had a paper bag=20 filled with vintage copies of some early books, poof! They all went,=20 just like that. Standing on line to meet him was like standing on=20 line, as a child, to meet Santa Claus-I mean that magical and that=20 exhilarating and un-real. I think I'll truncate my report at this juncture, though there were=20 many fine events and spectacles yet to come. The lobster banquet,=20 the joint appearance of Michael Davidson, Bob Perelman, and Barrett=20 Watten, the "Fluxus" event arranged by Bill Howe, Michael and Natalie=20 Basinski, Keith Tuma and Lisa Phillips among others, during which=20 Bill Howe mimicked vomiting to an amazingly realistic extent and for=20 a really, really long time-mimicking the pent-up energy of the=20 audience, who'd been force-fed simply tons of information and indeed=20 booze for a week-and yet mocking us-and yet sympathetic to us. One=20 final fashion award: Lisa Phillips for the most confident sartorial=20 panache. When Kathleen Fraser laid eyes on her at the Fluxus event,=20 in her snug velvet skirt and skinny tank top, she exclaimed to Dodie,=20 "Who is that magnificent creature?" Phillips delivered her paper on=20 =46rank O'Hara and the visual arts, reading directly from her laptop,=20 wearing nothing but another skinny tank top and a blue printed cloth=20 tied sarong-like across her hips--like a California Gauguin. Dodie=20 marveled at how perfectly her bra straps, visible on her bare=20 shoulders, exactly matched the turquoise of her tank, the way 60s=20 women used to dye their satin shoes to match their gowns. Wow!=20 Dozens of more readers, including all the brilliant ones David=20 Bromige has named. Then the next morning when Andrew Epstein and I=20 met, like two bargain-mad housewives, at the table where the official=20 Conference T-shirts had been slashed to absolute basement level, and=20 each picked one up. Inquiringly we looked at the woman manning the=20 table and "No," she replied, "they're not gonna be reduced again."=20 Shrug! The next morning when Robert Bertholf and I slunk into a=20 panel on Robert Duncan and Ronald Johnson, while back in our "suite,"=20 Dodie began to pack for the long trip home. I'm sorry I missed the=20 final plenary, in which Maria Damon was going to unveil her=20 magnificent Sangreal: actual photographs ("data!") of Bob Kaufman=20 actually working for the National Maritime Union in the early 40s.=20 But by then we were speeding to Portland in order to stew at the=20 airport for hours. I wandered out into the Maine night and again,=20 smoking a cigarette under the lighted lobby windows, watching the=20 party animals one last time. Kasey Mohammad, Michael Magee, Jacques=20 Debrot, clicking the mouths of their beer bottles together in the=20 rueful acknowledgment of the Three Musketeers. It all seemed so=20 transitory and so precious, I thought of Lisa Robertson's words in=20 Exclogue: "They wished to experience thought as we would be compelled=20 to remember it; it became a languid impossibility. Their heart was=20 lodged in an inaudible sentence. They wore nervousness on their=20 spine and wrists. Their small, soft, edgy world was an intoxicant.=20 The superb crumbling of the afternoon, so secret and so intense,=20 identified itself as history." -Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:56:49 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Accused of idiocy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Because they address disparate matters, I'm dividing my responses into two posts -- For any who do not care to pursue a post on Dillonology, please look for a following short response to things Tolsonian -- Mr. Dillon writes as follows in response to my expression of admiration: "There are no African Americans who are WHITE! I mean, DUH! Typiaal Liberal arrogance. Some of us have relatives from Rhodesia, Idiot. My use of words is more accurate than yours." Well, it is argued in many quarters that all of us have African relatives. I know for a fact that I do, though not from Rhodesia. I'm not sure why Mr. Dillon assumes from my first post that I am a liberal, and I leave it to others to judge which of us might be guilty of the greater arrogance. I have sometimes been guilty of a certain arrogance, but I doubt that it could be accurately characterized as a specifically liberal arrogance. I was, in fact, wondering how the word "black" was being used in your post. If it was a designation of actual color, then you must never have met the good Senator. If it was an indication of genetic origins, then why "black," since, as you so graciously and accurately point out to those of us too idiotic to have known it that there are "white" people on the continent of Africa? But then, there is also this, received as an after thought from Mr. Dillon at my own e-address: "And, one more thing. You still want to kill the messenger rather than deal with the message. The term "Black African American" is used properly and improperly everywhere. But it isn't worth getting into Liberal race baiting here. The point, Nielsen, is that Hilarity, who jumped from Conservative to the RadLib ship when she saw which way the wind was blowing, was going after an eminent MALE in order to carve a notch in her belt. Just as you are going after me to carve a noth in your belt. Actually, Senator Brooke was just a man, a person of quality who tried to teach a little truth that day, who was abused as Hilarity has abused so many others in her quest for power." I'm not sure what has happened to Mr. Dillon's accuracy here. His statement that I "still" want to kill the messenger seems to refer to some earlier correspondence, but not any of mine. It was an illiberal mode of race baiting I was worried about in my first post. Mr. Dillon now tells me that "Senator Brooke was just a man," but it was for some reason important in his description of the Hilary encounter to let us all know that Senator Brooke was a "Black African American." Sir, I knew Senator Brooke, and . . . OK -- I almost paraphrased a Texas liberal there, so let me start again -- Just what was it about Senator Brooke's race that was relevant to what you had to say about Ms. Clinton? And why is it evidently less relevant to you now that you've decided to berate me for raising the question? And just how am I carving a notch in MY belt by going after you? (and speaking of accuracy in usage . . . One carves a notch on a gun to indicate a victory; one notches a belt in a certain fashion to make it fit, but does one really carve a notch in one's belt, even metaphorically, to indicate another kill?) Just what is it that I have to gain, other than personal abuse from you, in pointing to what appear to me to be oddities in your intemperate remarks? Having missed so much of the furor surrounding the initial appearances of Mr. Dillon in the lists, I had wondered at the level of response he was able to elicit in such a short time. Having now benefitted from his corrective missives myself, I can well imagine how any number of idiotic, arrogant liberals might take offense at his gentle ironies. It is seldom that we have an opportunity to learn from one as atute an accurate as he, which was, after all, the very point I made in my first post. I suggest we all have something of importance to learn from the example of Mr. Dillon "Has All-- a Codicil?" -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Department of English Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:09:22 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Tolson after Orono MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Just a couple quick quibbles. I'm a little worried at the implications of Michael's comments about Tolson "arriving at precisely the right time as these poets hit their stride" etc. This requires a seriously foreshortened view of Tolson's reception history. Not only had he arrived quite forecefully upon initial publication (remember Williams's response to a Tolson appearance in POETRY, whereupon Williams wrote him into PATERSON!), but Tolson had a relatively wide readership, and affected a previous generation of younger poets, through the Collier paperback reprints of his last books that many of us read eagerly in the 70s -- BUT, that's the subject for an Orono 70s conference -- Then, to differ just a bit from my friend Marjorie -- I'm not at all sure that Michael's reaction is "proof" that the "major" label has "more to do with identity politics than anything else." If it were simply a matter of identity politics, there are any number of other black poets for whom the claim of "major" might be made -- I would give the benefit of the doubt to those who think Tolson may be a major poet because of what he wrote -- But what I'm more concerned about is the suggestion that there may be a party line on Tolson. As someone who's read everything that has been published on Tolson, I doubt that there is even a party, let alone a party line. We have, at least, made some movement since the Shapiro/Fabio debate, and there are few left who, like Paul Bremen, think that all of Tolson's late work is a fantastic put-on -- But until there is considerably more discussion of the most recent re-arrival of Tolson, I think talk of a party line is premature -- (By the way, loved the slides, in whatever order they appeared -- They really helped me follow your argument) "Has All-- a Codicil?" -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Department of English Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 03:21:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Incubation Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This has come to an end; afterwards, I traveled more than 31 hours only to have my suitcase lost between Las Vegas and Salt Lake City - I'm waiting now for its arrival. The trAce Incubation conference in Nottingham went amazingly well. There were varieties of works shown and no showdowns. I found myself especially interested in the groups discussing mobile technologies and the possibil- ity of a literature dispersed among hand-held machines and users. I was interested in the keynote talk given by Geoff Ryman based to some extent on Sartre's What is Literature, applied to multi-media, developing con- cepts of engagement, audience/writer trust and responsibility, and a con- cept of a future leaving an already virtual reality behind. I was amazed and moved by Belle Gironda's concepting of evanescence and much talk throughout the concept of flow, which works in relation and through or against the granularity of protocols. Somewhere Barthes seemed whispering in the distance. I chaired a panel with, among other people, Linda Marie Walker and Michael Tawa, whose mutual performance of quietude and def- erral was astonishing. I loved the performative / somewhat Andy Kaufman aspects of Bernard Cohen's presentation. It was great seeing and hearing Chris Funkhouser as well - there is just too much to comment on, point by point. In all of this there was a sense of ground-breaking, dispersions of sub- ject and object, exhileration, excitement, optimism, happiness. Stelarc's laugh was amazing; the Walker and Tawa piece reminded me of Roy and H G. I read Marie Damon's paper (I had too much to attend and wasn't able to hear it directly) and suddenly the entrance of all of this into univers- ity teaching seemed possible. I wonder about the aesthetics here - I await a new aesthetics, a more difficult accounting, both psychologically and philosophically, of changes that are sea changes down to the depths. It's not the aesthetics, it's the measure of being on the planet, of social responsibility and multicultur- alisms, of protocols and regimes of analog and digital domains, of reals and virtuals, of multiply distributed ontologies. It's the knowledge of a future which, however fragile, takes the universe within poetics, and takes poetics - in the broadest sense (Bachelard, Jabes, Blanchot, Kris- teva, Barthes, etc.) - to a level of critial and relevant thought. And it's the knowledge of future virtual subjectivities, and our negotiation within them - as well as the knowledge of global relevancies, distribu- tions of knowledge and wealth, all these flows - So the conference was, for me, also a waiting, and an awaiting-upon - Alan, running on almost no sleep for days - Internet Text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:02:13 -0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "mail.poetrynow.org" Subject: new poetrynow online and online publishing: a brief commentary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [First of all I confess I didn't know Richard Howard was the editor of The Paris Review, a journal that has consistently rejected my own work, when I wrote this; and when I decided to look up the person who wrote the foreward to the book reviewed in poetrynow's latest issue before I risked offending him, the temptation to not accuse him of bias and inanity was strong.] The summer issue of poetrynow is online, containing poetry by MTC Cronin, David Howard, Ross McMahon, Edward Morris, Bryan Murphy, Erin Sebo, Lawrence Upton, Robert Wendland; and a review of the anthology The New Young American Poets, edited by Kevin Prufer. In the foreward by Howard is this somewhat inane statement: "Newspapers and magazines, the movies, television, and now the Internet, the alarmingly identified WEB--how many of these poems come to terms (and the terms arrived at are the poems) with these promulgated emblems of ourselves!" I don't know what poets Howard read, but the 6 poets quoted in the review come to terms not with some declared, or even un-declared, "emblem" but most directly with life itself--a life of conquerors and conquered, of change, of growth. And his "web," with its suggestion of struggling insects and patient leering spiders, forces us to wonder who Howard sees as entangled in silken strands: the poet, the reader? There are more and more fine poems being published on the internet, I like to think that poetrynow is one of the venues where that happens. Judy Smith McDonough, editor, poetrynow http://www.poetrynow.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 02:11:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The quiddities of Mr. G. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >> >>> >>>In a parallel development, thanks G for the offer, but you havent seen th= e >>>size of my briefcase have you? >>> >>>Also, you should know that I now keep my money in a money belt. >>> >>>D >> >>Dear David: >>Ah! You must be wealthy indeed, for the last time I looked, your belt >>had a big circumference. >>-- >>George Bowering >> > >Oh ha ha. Touch=E9, M. Bullring, it is you are the svelte one, mais what is >all the world thinking when knowing what I am telling re ze bi-monthly >visits to yr brother the liposuctioniste? Also, re ze size of my >money-belt: all the better once i am selling tickets to ze donqui xote >show. "TILT" are flashing all yr windmills with their arms in their hair. >Yr corn is grinding. Pasta! Or Too much. > >M. Dove, from Generation Pai x. This person is a genius. I am certain of that. He is as much a genius as John Wieners, as much a genius as Fran Tarkenton. When Jack Spicer spoke about the future of American poetry he had this bromige person in mind/ I love this guy. I am also as drunk as you can get, having, with Mike and Gill Collins, had alcohol tonight from every continent except Antarctica. -- George Bowering =46ax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:18:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael salinger Subject: Evite: Slam Team Benefit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="FYOGTYKACGWHUUMVJCOCRORWDBSWLA" --FYOGTYKACGWHUUMVJCOCRORWDBSWLA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can't wait to get your reply on the invite. Hi! I'd like to invite you to: Slam Team Benefit Just click on the link below, and it will take you to my personal Evite event page to see everyone's comments, RSVP, and get all the details. http://www.evite.com/respond?iid=FNVLIDNKFCAGMOTTQGYC Can't wait to get your reply on the invite. michael salinger * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * HAVING TROUBLE? If nothing happens when you click the link above, click it twice. If nothing happens then please use your mouse to cut and paste the following address: http://www.evite.com/respond?iid=FNVLIDNKFCAGMOTTQGYC into your Web browser, then hit return. That will take you to the invite. If you can't access the event page: 1. Go to http://www.evite.com/ 2. Log in (if you are already a member) or sign up for an Evite account, using the same email address the organizer used to contact you about this event. 3. Go to your "My Evite" inbox and click the event title to view your invite! Still having trouble? Email support@evite.com ---------------------------------------------- Brought to you by Evite Check out http://www.evite.com/ today. Getting your friends together just got easier. 15151515 --FYOGTYKACGWHUUMVJCOCRORWDBSWLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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14141414 --FYOGTYKACGWHUUMVJCOCRORWDBSWLA-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 03:00:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Promissory Notes towards a Delivery of that Aesthetics of Multi Media MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Promissory Notes towards a Delivery of that Aesthetics of Multi Media going back to winograd and heidegger, failure of technology, the non-work- ing limits of the world - limits of the technology - what happens at the point of failure, system resonances, micro-resonances - the splintered - what does it mean to break ascii in ascii - recuperation always open at the limit - limitless godelian axiomatic systems, as if there were a pro- cess adding to their number - one that was carried out - the maw or gap/e near the end - just about at the end - labia, the rim - get in the screen towards that aesthetics - 1 2 3 4 5 play, rapture, exhilaration, energy, collaboration, positivity, flow and flux, emissions, dispersions, bodies and technologies, networkings and membranes, words coalescing, breaking apart, cocooning and the coming- together of individualized words, and the evanescence of worlds 1 2 3 4 against the idea of multimedia, in favor of integration, convergence - seamless (virtual) realities - not segmented modalities - dispersions - bauhaus formulas of images - contrast between writing/fluidity and html protocols - (multimedia indicates a plurality - perhaps not only of channels, but also of diegesis and affect - i'm stressing less rupture, less particulation, and integration heading towards the seamless virtual or real) get out of the screen (meanwhile html protocols and the net in general stutter, leave gaps - you're always aware of uploading/downloading - as if the sprocket holes were visible - godardian post-may-68 filmmaking - constructing broken and self-reflexive diegetic) get out of the screen inertias of html coding, stuttered inertias of the digital - continuum mechanics of the analog necessarily embedding noise which tends to grow exponentially - generations and generations of duplication and alteration - it's like this, one might argue that there is an original text, and everything that follows is either in error and/or in emendation - of course that original is always already a plagiarism - get out of the screen (stuttering railroad tracks against the ethos of the analog - the two orders in dialectic without resolution, continual deferral - we have the lost real and it is us) but then again, think of multiple dispersions, hallucinagenic, without separate addressing of the senses - it's this separate addressing that leads us to think of multimedia - when things like film are coherent, one doesn't think of them as image/movement/sound (only in afterthought) - 1 2 3 4 5 a stuttered aesthetics, jump-cut length tending towards (degree) zero, the affluence and surplus of the analog, the incisions, scarcity, of the digital - 1 2 3 4 __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:06:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Re: a note on list etiquette In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No......This varies according to one's e-mail software; your name does *not* so appear to some people (it did not appear as rendered by my e-mail software) ; that is why i suggest you put it somewhere in the body of your post; if it doesn't matter to you who yer speaking with, and you don't care to make connections with what that person's said previously, ... well, how pomo of you; it isn't true of all... mark p. POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: >> mark prejsnar - >> >> As far as I can tell my name (Joseph Massey) is tucked beside my >e-mail >> address ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 11:53:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r.....rabbi of ruins.... there is nothing quite so satisfying as somebody else's wreck...the pile of rubble on 2nd Ave & Houston which used to be an expensive arch. salvage outfit called Buried Treasure....Lost & Found...Dear & Dearer still... they, the owner and owner' pop, decided to get in on the land gold speculative rush of Man. real estate...and open a dear and dearer restaurant on the ground floor...in the dash for the big quick $$$$$$$.....they seemed to have hired some non-u labor, done some shoddy planning etc..and managed to poke a hole in the wall of the 5 story building which housed x million $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ of Arch.Junk...doors, doorways, doorknobs, transoms, floors, and Tiffany Windows...and the whole came tumbling down aided and abetted by N.Y.C. tractors who were afraid of one more huff &... As they were starting to rubblize a few million $$$$$$$$ worth of junk..I was a few blocks S. at the NYU silver towers..looking at what was left of A.L.(died at 105) Lib....I got the tip from the FATHER of my child...this is a long & longer story...and proves as ever that language & usage can never keep up with reality....even if you can type as fast as i can...fast & faster.. I had read the obit of A.L....a minor artist who's major claim to fame seems that he lived in the same loft building as Duchamp...and when D..met him in the morning...D would say "bon nuit"...and when D. met him in the evening...D. would say "bon jour"...minor artists have their place and as the obit sd..."that Duchamp was a queer bird" The archaelogy books piled along the wall were going to NYU..and there wasn't an ART book in site...so they were poached by somebody with nimble quick fingers...i managed to salvage out of this rubble a book inscribed to Emma Goldman..with the MOTHER EARTH stamp, an INSCRIBED Jane Jacobs Death & Life...and a bunch of radical pamphlets which i'm sure were bought from the 5C tables of 4th Ave...well nigh a century ago....when I asked how much...the caretakers told me to just TAKE THEM....rather than delighted this left me even sadder to think that they put so little value on the past...unless it had a lot of 000000000's after the $...good nuff for me..a little entertainment and a free ride.... By the time i'd homebased these..i was immmersed in what would happpen to my stuffes...housed in one loft, one storage space in Man., one storage place in Queens, one closet in Bayside, one small studio in the E.Village, and some in the trunk of my car...if ever one of those mad collectors decided my prices were so INSANE that he'd have me whacked....wife one, wife two, daughter one, daughter two would have a high time sorting out the rubble...& to be sure i'm prob. worth more dead than alive...and even those who says they loves u..knows it.....jarndyce vs jarndyce rolls on... the next day..a squally Sat...brings me to Garage of an org. dedicated to preserving the Vil. and the West Side Waterfront...it was here a decade or two ago I bought my other copy of Death & Life of American Cities by Jane Jacobs inscribed to a friend....lost now in one of the endless boxes of the endless storage spaces...Jane Jacobs and other crazy ladies like her fought Robert Moses to a stand still over develop....& preserved the most valuable $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ real estate in the world from becoming a highway....straight thru SOHO to link tunnel to bridge..where now Prada & St. Laurent do the dance of the big bucks boutiques... A rainy empty day..where an 80 year old lady sells me two poetry books for 1.50...Gary Soto and Valery Oisteanu...& for 60 cents an anti-t.v. cartoon book El Caballo de Troya...Havana 1984...as I'm leaving i spy in the last Box on the floor which is meant to be outide on sunny days ...two copies of Bester's DEMOLISHED MAN...Shasta '53...both a little worse for wear like me....but 1sts in a good and vg D.J...3 bucks each... The demolished man....the man the culture w/o memory...lost in space in no-man's land.....what comes apres moi..let 'er come...DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 08:59:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: michael cuddihy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" excerpted from the Arizona Daily Star article, written by Kathleen Allen: Michael Cuddihy, a nationally known poet and poetry editor, died of pneumonia Thursday [July 13] at his Tucson home. He was 68. Cuddihy was founder and editor of Ironwood, a widely respected poetry magazine he published out of his Sam Hughes [an old Tucson neighborhood] home for 16 years -- an astonishingly long life for a poetry publication -- before folding it in 1988. Cuddihy came from a prominent New York family, the publishers of Funk and Wagnall's encyclopedias. He was a student at Notre Dame University when he contracted polio. He was forced to drop out of school and would spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair. His health brought him to Tucson in 1956. He was a familiar figure at poetry events in town, sitting in his wheelchair, a strap around his forehead to hold his head up. He had a long, wispy white beard and an easy smile. When he listened to poetry, he would fix his eyes on the reader, as though he were trying to pierce the poet's soul. [end of article] ___________________ According to a friend I spoke with this morning, Cuddihy had recently had a tracheotomy, which was to help him breathe without regular mechanical assistance for the first time in years. He had contracted pneumonia, but was apparently recovering well. Then he simply felt a "heaviness" come over him, and was gone. His tower-of-strength wife, Mary Cuddihy, who courageously assisted Michael for the last several decades, is also a great friend to poets locally. Members of the Poetics List might know Cuddihy and Ironwood best for its special issues, from the late 1960's through the mid-1980's, on George Oppen, Robert Duncan, Beverly Dahlen, and Language poetry. His editorial vision included poets as wide-ranging as those, as well as Czeslaw Milosz, Linda Gregg, and Tess Gallagher. He had the widest, most open mind to variety in poetry of anyone I've ever known, yet in his case, that openness implied no lack of vision and high standards. He just had room for it all. Personally, he was the most generous of poetic presences here in Tucson, and at gatherings at his house one would become embroiled in fiercely debated poetry discussions at one point, and listen to Irish jigs (and perhaps dance to them) at the next. To see him out, whether at a poetry reading, or when his assistant would take him for a neighborhood walk, always lifted my spirits. Goodbye, Michael, we will miss you. Charles Alexander ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:58:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Brook Subject: Paul Hammond - Constellations of Miro, Breton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm writing to announce the release of a new City Lights book by Paul Hammond, Constellations of Miro, Breton. I'm the editor on the book, one that I think many of the poetics list would appreciate, containing as it does the complete English translation of some of Andre Breton's last poems. And, as they say in the trade, much, much more. Hammond's a remarkable writer and a brilliant translator. You can find the book in the usual places. You can also order it directly from City Lights (see http://www.citylights.com). I'm including here most of what's on the back cover of the book. --James Brook --------------------------------------------------------------- CONSTELLATIONS OF MIRO, BRETON by Paul Hammond 0-87286-372-7 264 pp Paperback $18.95 During the early days of the Second World War, the Catalan painter Joan Miro created a startling series of twenty-three gouaches, his Constellations, works redolent with the nightmare of contemporary events. In 1958 the French poet Andre Breton composed his own Constellations, a set of hermetic prose poems meant to "illustrate"--that is, not simply to shed light on, but to lend luster to--Miro's paintings, and to resume a peripatetic dialogue about exile. In Constellations of Miro, Breton, Paul Hammond unravels some of the mysteries of the call-and-response of these two Surrealists by reading the pictures against the poetry, the poetry against the pictures, and both against the madness of a history that none of us has left that far behind. Featured in this edition are reproductions of the complete series of Joan Miro's Constellations and a translation of Andre Breton's proses paralleles. Also included is Andre Breton's essay, "Constellations of Joan Miro," as well as documentary illustrations and photographs. Paul Hammond is the author of Marvellous Melies, French Undressing, Upon the Pun: Dual Meaning in Words and Pictures (with Patrick Hughes), and a monograph on Luis Bunuel's L'Age d'or. He is the editor and translator of The Shadow and Its Shadow: Surrealist Writings on the Cinema (coming from City Lights in fall 2000), and the coeditor, with Ian Breakwell, of Seeing in the Dark: A Compendium of Cinemagoing and Brought to Book: The Balance of Books and Life. Paul Hammond's translations include Whatever by Michel Houellebecq and The Virgin of the Hitmen by Fernando Vallejo. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:10:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Haiku on computer Comments: cc: Carolyn_Gayden , Angela Solie , "Steve <" , Renee Gladman , Rachel Bernstein , John Keene , J Keene , Nailah , Naadu Blankson , Al Luhan , Bethany White , Laura Johnson Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Some humor... I don't know how this will change relations with one's computer system Tisa ---------- A friend in Taiwan passed this to me from her friend who passed this on to her, from her friend, from his friend in Japan. In Japan, Sony Vaio portable PCs have replaced the impersonal and unhelpful Microsoft error messages with haiku poems, each only 17 syllables: ************************************************************************ A file that big? It might be very useful. But now it is gone. ------------------------ Yesterday it worked. Today it is not working. Windows is like that. ------------------------ With searching comes loss And the presence of absence: "My Novel" not found. ------------------------ The Tao that is seen Is not the true Tao, until You bring fresh toner. ------------------------ You step in the stream, But the water has moved on. This page is not here. ------------------------ Out of memory. We wish to hold the whole sky, But we never will. ------------------------ First snow, then silence. This thousand dollar screen dies So beautifully. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 21:38:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit looking now for Mervyn Taylor anyone? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:01:03 PDT Reply-To: jbleheup@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jbleheup@SFU.CA Subject: JUDY 3 LAUNCH *SATURDAY* JULY 22 Comments: To: flick_harrison@canada.com, pulley-press@sfu.ca, easter-island@sfu.ca Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Please note the correct date of the JUDY 3 LAUNCH PARTY *SATURDAY* JULY 22ND @ ARTSPEAK 233 CARRAL STREET VANCOUVER Thanks to the sharp-eyed reader who caught my mistake and sorry for any inconvenience. Jason Le Heup jbleheup@sfu.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:50:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: Tolson after Orono Comments: To: anielsen@lmu.edu In-Reply-To: from "anielsen@lmu.edu" at Jul 13, 2000 10:09:22 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to anielsen@lmu.edu: > > Just a couple quick quibbles. I'm a little worried at the implications of > Michael's comments about Tolson "arriving at precisely the right time as > these poets hit their stride" etc. This requires a seriously > foreshortened view of Tolson's reception history. Not only had he arrived > quite forecefully upon initial publication (remember Williams's response > to a Tolson appearance in POETRY, whereupon Williams wrote him into > PATERSON!), but Tolson had a relatively wide readership, and affected a > previous generation of younger poets, through the Collier paperback > reprints of his last books that many of us read eagerly in the 70s -- BUT, > that's the subject for an Orono 70s conference -- Just wanted to quickly respond to what Aldon says above - he's quite right, I sort of misrepresented myself in that early post (have you noticed how much I've been doing that lately??). As someone who's written about Williams' inclusion of Tolson in PATERSON, I do of course remember it (not that Aldon could've known this as its buried w/ much else in my dissertation in the Penn library stacks and on my home bookshelf). What I was talking about was the *specific* effect that the republication of HARLEM GALLERY might have on poet I know personally and who's work I think some of the best going -- I had in mind a comment of Bob Perelman's about WCW's KORA IN HELL arriving in print in the 70s almost as if it were the contemporary of, say, Creeley's PRESENCES (my example). So, I never intended to obscure the reception-history of Tolson's work but, rather, merely to respond to some of Marjorie's comments regarding his influence but suggesting that, on a very local level, I can imagine some of the best young poets around responding in valuable ways to HARLEM GALLERY. Dig? -m. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:51:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: In defense of Doug/ Baraka/Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat--good to see you back on the list. Well, I suppose we could go back and forth with this until "semiotics" yields to another supplement. I guess I could say that if everything is energy, nothing is energy--but that might get a few quantum guys on my tail. I could say that if everything is real, nothing is real, or at least that reality is a meaningless concept. But I think Derrida, and dozens of others have covered that one. Come to think of it, quantum theory might serve as a good wrap up to this discussion. You see a particle, I see a wave. Depends on the tools we use, the questions we ask, the answers we expect. And yes, Alice is denied, as are we all. But like Carroll we are permitted to fantasize. Your description of Barthes' "Sufi space" may have some merit, but it's all too phenomenological and hocus pocus from my perspective, and Derrida did his thing on Husserl a long time ago. Divine light? Cool idea! Sure the mind wanders from the page, but language never wanders from the mind. What else is the mind, after all, but a linguistic construct invading awareness? That meditative space --what else might it be if not the "distance" between meaning and non-meaning which inhabits all texts? In my view, Barthes is describing the gap that is differa nce, in other words. See? Because I am suspicious of all religious/quasi-religious/platonist/mystical strategies, I see a wave where others might see a particle. I must agree with you that the true antithesis to structuralism/poststructuralism is some recovered version of Searl. I suggested as much when I conflated the two in a previous post. But all that is pretty old news. Surely the terms of the argument will change over time. But the argument will always be couched in words for us. Isn't that the point? That language simultaneously banishes and reveals, mediates as it re-covers. The issue for me is not whether phenomena (a la Kant) occupy space, but how that "reality" unfolds for us. As far as I can see, it unfolds as the signified, and that means it never escapes the prison house. Neither do we. But I'm probably wrong about all this. Still a great admirer of your work. And yeah, I agree with you that the jargonese has worn very thin. Plain english all the way. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:33:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron Subject: Re: Cheap Anthology Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit the Kenneth Koch! rimbaud to ashb. alls, Tb ---------- >From: Simon DeDeo >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Cheap Anthology >Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000, 11:14 PM > > Hello all -- > > Not sure if such a thing exists, but I'm looking for a good > anthology of poetry suitable for high school students that costs (wait for > it) less than ten dollars. Does anybody have any suggestions? > > Best, > > Simon > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:02:32 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: In defense of Doug/ Baraka/Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/17/00 10:50:40 AM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << Bill, of course your reply is the classical argument against my attempt to create a dialectic between writing and what is outside writing (I suppose, the non- existent universe of the signifieds). My problem with this argument is that it is tautological. If everything is semiotics, nothing is semiotics. Semiotics itself is a word with a historical shelf life, with its own web of illusions, which soon (and none too soon) we may discard. My even more basic problem with your argument is that it denies Alice the ability to scream that the queen's court is only a pack of cards, that one can awake from its sway by choosing to do so. As a mathematician Dodson knows that a closed system (of language, of mathematics) is like a dream (overstaying its welcome, a nightmare). One can not argue with it; one can only wake up from it. >> Forgive me for posting again so soon. But I feel the need to attach a clarification to my last post. When I wrote that "if everything is energy, then nothing is energy," I was not trying to be flippant. In fact, the quantum guys might not find such a claim all that surprising, especially those involved in matter/anti-matter investigations. My point is that Derrida has it covered. Is it not the ur-space of differance that meaning and non-meaning cohabitate? I would argue that everything is semiotics, and everything is not semiotics--the one claim carrying the trace of the other, contingent upon the other. This is far more than a simple binary, I think, if one considers that the opposition only appears as such it we agree to rest within easy polarizations, no doubt so that a rational discussion may ensue. But all facile oppositions are masks, in another sense, since one side is the other, the ghost of the other. Murat, your stated desire to separate writing from that which is not writing is the key to your position, I think. I know I don't have to tell you that when we speak of writing, we are speaking of far more than marks on a page. We are referring to sign systems that govern/express (to us, for us) all of human experience. So I guess what I find questionable in your remarks on Barthes is that you seem to cast him among those who quest for immanence. That throws us back to the old speech is prior/writing derivative business that Derrida handled so well. I don't read Barthes as ever intentionally attempting to establish or re-establish old hierarchies. But I do think that earlier in his career he did it inadvertently. Anyway, I wanted to get all that out before you cream me. Once again, it's great to have you back. I've learned quite a bit from you. Thanks. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:04:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Richard - Your political analysis rides on the notion that somehow the clinton clan is somehow 'liberal,' left,' etc. i think there are very clear deficiencies in such an analysis. He's as right as any other republicrat out there. there's a one-party system in america, and currently he's the leader. if you have doubts about this tight network of relationships and who these people similarly represent, look into the long-standing relationship between the gore and clinton families and the bush family (hint: the Harrimans). These people all represent the same people and are playing the same game, but they just all wear different masks. Your divisions are entertaining, Richard, at the very least in a traffic accident spectacle sort of way, but they are also ones that better-informed people are often eager to reject. in a way, rush limbaugh-esque rhetoric attacking clinton helps clinton (remember rush is a bush crony, an experiment loosed from a psyop manual), because it keeps the appearances of differences between the 'right' and the 'left' intact, and keeps that shared power between bushes and clintons and the elites that they both represent intact. americans don't necessarily want choice, but they do want to _believe_ they have a choice, and they want to believe that they truly are given democratic options, so that often makes them very fine dupes. do you wish to be predictable? are _you_ easily led? these are difficult questions, and those of us who are not vigilant in asking ourselves these two questions ultimately ARE duped. firing a gun at the bad guys when the bad guys and the good guys work for the same people creates nothing but dead bodies and success for those people who set up the puppet show at the outset. Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Dillon To: Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. > But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: > "Let us struggle together!" > > > From: David Baptiste Chirot > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > > > Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. > > > > Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at > > such a great cost. > > > > In all senses of that word, cost-- > > > > In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is > > eternal vigilance" > > and the license plates read > > "Live Free or Die" > > > > The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware > > from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep > > like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance > > which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. > > > > The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be > > peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all > > too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for > > blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a > > "reasoned > > discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and > > debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, > > upward lifted eyes and the like. > > > > It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at > > putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned > > with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter > > rhetoric. > > > > The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the > > self-proclaimed > > openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. > > > > Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum > > can't seem to get > > reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. > > > > One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one > > respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the > > silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. > > > > Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise > > and > > more noise. > > > > Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe > > altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for > > you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a > > remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and > > the like. > > > > One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding > > the posts to others,so they, > > too can return the messages--and > > the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own > > returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off > > like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. > > > > > > In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante > > man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding > > back. > > > > "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" > > > > Terminal silence--or terminal overload. > > > > "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" > > > > --dbchirot > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:59:14 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@sirius.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@sirius.com" Subject: olga cabral Comments: cc: "info@westbeth.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Looking for any biographical/bibliographical information on poet & childrens' book author Olga Cabral. Thanks David Buuck ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:38:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit THE MAROON is not as clever as you paint him. You are. The Maroon believes Paul Fray and his wife, Trooper Patterson, and writer Oppenheimer that Hilarity is a BIGOT AND A BULLY. You want to deconstruct THE MAROON and thus permit HILARITY her power over you and the other poets in your school. You would rather not deconstruct Hilarity because such a truly radical act might perhaps cost you tenure. Hilarity is a phony. Tears are in her eyes now for she's been found out because multiple witnesses from different stations saw her deliver cruel words and have seen what she is. Former allies who tried to help her would not now lie. Not unless something more important were at stake, something irreplaceable, call it conscience, call it liberty. Other former friends and associated have passed away mysteriously as the Cyclone of the Clintons appeared on the horizon of their lives, moved through, using them, catching them up in vain idealisms, and went on its course. When Hilarity was finished with the Arkansans they were 49th in education. Rape after rape had gone unpunished. And the Lippo Bank, owned in part by Beijing Borg Jack Booted Thugs (Their Tanks Once Stopped By The Maroon In Tiannamen Square), had planted its first American outpost in Little Rock. There comes a time when you believe one side or the other and then afterwards the Truth will out. THE MAROON, who gains no boon by this endeavor, encourages you to trust him rather than the CLINTONISTAS. You will feel better on Election Day if you do not give them your power in whatever State you cast your vote............ if you vote, which I doubt. > From: Richard Dillon > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:42:15 -0400 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. > But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: > "Let us struggle together!" > >> From: David Baptiste Chirot >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >> >> Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. >> >> Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at >> such a great cost. >> >> In all senses of that word, cost-- >> >> In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is >> eternal vigilance" >> and the license plates read >> "Live Free or Die" >> >> The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware >> from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep >> like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance >> which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. >> >> The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be >> peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all >> too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for >> blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a >> "reasoned >> discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and >> debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, >> upward lifted eyes and the like. >> >> It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at >> putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned >> with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter >> rhetoric. >> >> The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the >> self-proclaimed >> openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. >> >> Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum >> can't seem to get >> reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. >> >> One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one >> respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the >> silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. >> >> Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise >> and >> more noise. >> >> Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe >> altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for >> you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a >> remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and >> the like. >> >> One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding >> the posts to others,so they, >> too can return the messages--and >> the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own >> returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off >> like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. >> >> >> In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante >> man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding >> back. >> >> "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" >> >> Terminal silence--or terminal overload. >> >> "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" >> >> --dbchirot >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:10:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: What a maroon! In-Reply-To: <200007120209.WAA12153@mail4.lig.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i thought the first few of these was "marron," rather than "maroon." but what do i, as a moron, know? At 10:14 PM -0400 7/11/00, Ken Rumble wrote: >I always thought that Bugs' use of "maroon" was a deliberate >mispronunciation of "moron," but the OED has these interesting uses of the >word: > >"1. A large kind of sweet chestnut native to Southern Europe; also, the >tree bearing this nut. > >2. A particular kind of brownish-crimson or claret color. > >3. A coal-tar die obtained from the resinous matters formed in the >manufacture of magenta. > >4. A firework composed of a small cubical box of pasteboard, wrapped round >with twine and filled with gunpowder; it is intended to imitate in >exploding the report of a cannon. > >5. One of a class of Negroes, originally fugitive slaves, living in the >mountains and forests of Dutch Guiana and the West Indies. > >6. A pleasure party, especially a hunting or fishing excursion of the >nature of a picnic but of longer duration. > >7. A person who is marooned. > >8. To be lost in the wilds. > >9. To put a person ashore and leave him on a desolate island or coast (as >was done by the buccaneers and pirates) by way of punishment. > >10. Of slaves: to escape from service and take to the woods and mountains. > >11. To camp out for several days on a pleasure party. > >12. To idle; 'hang about.'" > >But I think the "moron" mispronunciation is the most likely. > > > >Ken Rumble > > > >At 09:29 AM 7/8/2000 +1000, you wrote: >>In a recent post, Ron Henry used the phrase "What a maroon." >> >>I'd like to know the etymology of this saying. I know Bugs Bunny made it >>widely popular, but whence does it come? >> >>Is it a deliberate mispronunciation of "moron"? >> >>Is it a private thing of Tex Avery's? >> >>Anyone? >> >>John Tranter, Sydney >>from John Tranter >> Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/welcome.html >> Ancient history - the late sixties - at >> http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/tranter/index.html >>______________________________________________ >> 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia >> tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:17:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: From David Bromige In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 7:11 AM -0700 7/13/00, Kevin Killian wrote: >>X-Sender: dcmb@mail.metro.net (Unverified) >>Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:22:33 -0800 >>To: dbkk@sirius.com >>From: David Bromige ... >>And it was fun to introduce Bowering to Maria Damon, and see fiction melt >>before fact. Wish you'd been there, Rachel Loden. >> >>Bedtime. David fact melted? speak for yourself. as for me, my loves, my ardor flams --i mean flim flams --i mean flames --more brightly than ever. rachel, we took photos for you. it was fun. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:24:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Tolson after Orono Comments: To: anielsen@lmu.edu In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i wonder about the utility of labels like "major" and "minor" when it comes to evaluating poetry and poets. ive never found it helpful and it is most often used to dismiss the kinds of folks i work on. so, nein danke. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:30:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Incubation Conference In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 3:21 AM -0400 7/15/00, Alan Sondheim wrote: >This has come to an end; afterwards, I traveled more than 31 hours only to >have my suitcase lost between Las Vegas and Salt Lake City - I'm waiting >now for its arrival. > >The trAce Incubation conference in Nottingham went amazingly well. There >were varieties of works shown and no showdowns. I found myself especially >interested in the groups discussing mobile technologies and the possibil- >ity of a literature dispersed among hand-held machines and users. I was >interested in the keynote talk given by Geoff Ryman based to some extent >on Sartre's What is Literature, applied to multi-media, developing con- >cepts of engagement, audience/writer trust and responsibility, and a con- >cept of a future leaving an already virtual reality behind. I was amazed >and moved by Belle Gironda's concepting of evanescence and much talk >throughout the concept of flow, which works in relation and through or >against the granularity of protocols. Somewhere Barthes seemed whispering >in the distance. I chaired a panel with, among other people, Linda Marie >Walker and Michael Tawa, whose mutual performance of quietude and def- >erral was astonishing. I loved the performative / somewhat Andy Kaufman >aspects of Bernard Cohen's presentation. It was great seeing and hearing >Chris Funkhouser as well - there is just too much to comment on, point by >point. > >In all of this there was a sense of ground-breaking, dispersions of sub- >ject and object, exhileration, excitement, optimism, happiness. Stelarc's >laugh was amazing; the Walker and Tawa piece reminded me of Roy and H G. >I read Marie Damon's paper (I had too much to attend and wasn't able to >hear it directly) and suddenly the entrance of all of this into univers- >ity teaching seemed possible. > alan dear get some sleep. the name's maria, as you well know. i had a great time at the conference, esp meeting alan s, chris funk's baby stella the marvelous, bernard cohen the puppy-like novelist, the doo cot ladies (don't ask), and seeing bob cobbing and his wife jennifer pike celebrate their 80th b-days in london the night before coming back. also met lawrence upton, that was fun, and hazel smith, and other groovoids. the desserts were great! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:26:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re/port MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Re-Port Do I think I should explain I have severe migraines from time to time (also tied to orgasm from time to time); depression; heartburn (for which I take medication); very high blood pressure (for which I take medica- tion); occasional pains in my back and neck; bitten lips; dandruff (under control); a tendency to get so tangled up in my words and feelings that I go almost catatonic, pulling out with great difficulty; tendency towards extreme insomnia; a sense of wonder which gets me into trouble; unmasked and unmeaning arrogance; awkwardness in company; hyper-sexuality; tendency towards both cynicism and romanticism; thick glasses needed to see any- thing at all; hypothermia; tendency towards the maudlin; tendency towards rudeness and oversight; to you? A sense of wonder which gets me into trouble; unmasked and unmeaning arrogance; awkwardness in company; hyper-sexuality; tendency towards both cynicism and romanticism; thick glasses needed to see anything at all; hypothermia; tendency towards the maudlin; tendency towards rudeness and oversight; nightmares from which I can't escape; becoming suddenly breathless; tinnitus which gets worse under stress; and thereby extreme stress and nervousness; neuroticism compounded by such; feeling far too weak in relation to my father; tendency towards crying at the slightest provocation; far too many regrets; I think I should explain I have severe migraines from time to time (also tied to orgasm from time to time); de- pression; heartburn (for which I take medication); very high blood pres- sure (for which I take medication); occasional pains in my back and neck; bitten lips; dandruff (under control); a tendency to get so tangled up in my words and feelings that I go almost catatonic, pulling out with great difficulty; tendency towards extreme insomnia; losing my temper; losing my temper; __ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:24:22 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: rob wilson Subject: Re: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) In-Reply-To: <200007122049.e6CKngH26836@nico.bway.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This news was very saddening to me, as I had always planned to meet up with Ursule Molinaro again in the scorpio haunts and hexagrams of the west village, but this is not meant to be. I was able to place a long-promised review of her writings up on amazon.com of all places. So look at it if you care, or get a chance. I can only add that Bruce Mcpherson of Tanam Press who has supported artists of their singular caliber and poetic syntax-- here I am thinking back to Theresa Cha before the Korean American takeover of her identity, and of the cosmopolitical and uncanny projections of Urusule Molinaro, virtual saints of the un-american experimental crafts-- the likes of which are passing from the shelf life world. Yrs are the praises Ursule and your work will live on in the "afterlife" of the writerly world where books are still read, taught, and appreciated beyond the deadliness and flash of the commodity form. Rob Wilson On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Charles Bernstein wrote: > I forward here a message I received from Raymond Federman -- a note he sent to > Ron Sukenik, Editor of the American Book Review. I am sending this to the list > with Raymond's permission. I haven't been able to locate her year of birth. > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:19:50 EDT > From: Raymond Federman > > charles this is what I wrote to ron today about ursule > > Ron > > I just learned that Ursule Molinaro died today -- she was one of us -- a real > writer who refused to compromise. She was also a fine artist. But for me > she will remain one of the most astuce numerologists. One evening in a > restaurant in the village [I think Marianne Hauser was there too -- another > one of our great cotemporaries] Ursule deciphered for me the numbers in my > name and she told me the whole story of my life - -past present future. She > was not read enough. But perhaps now she will be. > > I feel sad. I don't know why really. I didn't know her that well. > I read her some. > > I hope ABR will make mention of her changing of tenses > > you may even print my little statement above about her as an homage to her. > > Federman > > > > ____________________________ > > from McPherson and Co's online catalog, followed by a list of books they > publish > http://www.mcphersonco.com/authors/umolinar.html: > > Ursule Molinaro is the author of thirteen novels, a number of widely produced > one-act plays, three volumes of non-fiction, and hundreds of short stories. Her > novels and stories have been published in England, France, and Japan, as well > as the U.S. Recipient of awards and fellowships from the McDowell Foundation, > the National Endowment for the Arts, the New York Foundation for the Arts, and > the PEN American Center, Ms. Molinaro also translates from four languages, > including works by Hermann Hesse, Dino Buzzati, Nathalie Sarraute, Phillipe > Sollers, Uwe Johnson, Rheinhard Lettau, Audiberti, and films by Jean Luc-Godard > and Agnes Varda. She is also an artist (her paintings and collages appear on > her McPherson titles), dramatist, translator, and acrosticist. Ursule Molinaro > lives in New York City with her cat, Owlbear. > > Contemporary Authors gives this bibliography: > > > POETRY > > Rimes et raisons, Regain (Monte Carlo), 1954. > Mirrors for Small Beasts, Noonday, 1960. > > NOVELS > > L'Un pour l'autre, translation from the English manuscript by Edith > Fournier, Julliard (Paris), 1964, manuscript published as The Borrower: > An Alchemical Novel, Harper (New York City), 1970. > Green Lights Are Blue: A Pornosophic Novel, New American Library > (New York City), 1967. > > Sounds of a Drunken Summer, Harper, 1969. > > The Autobiography of Cassandra, Princess and Prophetess of Troy, > Archer Editions Press (Danbury, CT), 1979. > > Positions with White Roses, McPherson (New Paltz, NY), 1983. > > The New Moon with the Old Moon in Her Arms: A True Story > > Assembled from Scholarly Hearsay, Women's Press Ltd. (London), > 1990, McPherson (Kingston, NY), 1993. > > Power Dreamers: The Jocasta Complex, McPherson, 1994. > > > COLLECTIONS > Encores for a Dilettante, Braziller (New York City), 1978. > Bastards: Footnotes to History (two short stories; illustrated), Treacle > Nightschool for Saints, Second Floor, Ring Bell: 11 Short Stories, > Archer Editions Press, 1981. > Thirteen: Stories, McPherson, 1989. > A Full Moon of Women: 29 Word Portraits of Notable Women from > Different Times and Places, Dutton (New York City), 1990. > > NONFICTION > The Zodiac Lovers, Avon (New York City), 1969. > Life by the Numbers: A Basic Guide to Learning Your Life through > Numerology, Morrow (New York City), 1971. > > PLAYS > The Abstract Wife, Hill & Wang (New York City), 1961. > Breakfast Past Noon (one-act), published in New Women's Theatre, > Random House (New York City), 1977. > > Also author of one-act plays The Engagement, After the Wash, and The > Sundial, all published or produced; author of unpublished and unproduced plays > "The Mine" (one-act)," Antiques" (one-act), "The Great Emancipation," and > "The Happy Hexagon." > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:27:11 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jerry mcguire Subject: Poet search MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been trying to find an address for Liz Waldner, author of _A Point is That Which Has No Part._ Can someone backchannel me with her address, email, website, or phone? Thanks, Jerry McGuire jlm8047@louisiana.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:19:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: LLRussell Organization: White Owl Web http://whiteowlweb.com Subject: in sadness.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case this has not been announced on Poetics, I send in this sad news. Poet/writer and poetry activist Michael McNeilley passed on two nights ago, July 16th. http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/mcneilley/12poems/index.html Michael McNeilley, 12 Poems http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/mcneilley/12poems/bio.htm Short bio and photo from the same site http://gate.cruzio.com/~zerocity/zcpoetry.html Zero City site (Michael co-editor with JJ Webb) In sadness and respect, Layne Russell for Michael a gray sky in the middle of July my cat catches a small bird and leaves it on the walk one deep purple chrysanthemum blooms early the death of a poet ripples on the wind -layne ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Fwd: Ernst Jandl in translation(s) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This announcement just in from Burning Deck Books: Burning Deck is pleased to announce volume 4 of DICHTEN=3D=20 (a series of translations of current writing in German) ERNST JANDL reft and light Selected Poems with Multiple Versions by American Poets ed. Rosmarie Waldrop Poems, 112 pages, offset, smyth-sewn ISBN 1-886224-34-x, original paperback $10 Publication Date: October 15, 2000 Jandl's poems are so engrained in the German language that they are= impossible to translate. This volume presents an unusual experiment: not= one, but several adaptations are given for each German poem, so that the= original is encircled by multiple English analogues. The responses range= from close imitations to freewheeling versions that continue Jandl's= thinking into other semantic areas. Ernst Jandl was born in 1925 in Vienna. In German-speaking countries he is= regarded as the main representative of concrete poetry. _To jandl_ has= become a verb. He began publishing poems in 1956 and quickly attracted= attention as the wittiest and most exuberant of experimental poets, with a= knack for uncovering the comic potential in discrepancies between sound and= spelling, in cliches, mis-pronunciations, dialect etc. He has not only= explored the limits of language in his visual and sound poems, but has= written powerful political commentary by playing with Auslander-deutsch,= the kind of pidgin German spoken by foreign workers. =20 He translated Gertrude Stein, Robert Creeley's The Island, and John Cage's= Silence. Among his many prizes in both Austria and Germany are the= Georg-Trakl-Preis (1974), Georg-Buchner-Preis and Grosser =85sterreichische= r Staatspreis (both 1984). It is with great sadness that we learned of Ernst Jandl's death while this= book was being printed. The translators include Charles Bernstein, Lee Ann Brown, Norma Cole, Tina= Darragh, Ray DiPalma, Rachel Blau Duplessis, Kenward Elmslie, Anselm Hollo,= Paul Hoover, Gale Nelson, Julie Patton, Ray Ragosta, Joan Retallack, Brian= Schorn, James Sherry, Cole Swensen, Craig Watson, Marjorie Welish, John= Yau, and others. Distributors:=20 Small Press Distribution, 1341 Seventh St., Berkeley, CA 94710 orders@spdbooks.org ; 1-800/869-7553 http://www.spdbook.com Spectacular Diseases, 83b London Rd., Peterborough, Cambs. PE2 9BS, England http://www.durationpress.com/Burning Deck ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:53:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Clippinger Subject: Mark Nowak In-Reply-To: <39743F07.1F92A575@louisiana.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Could Mark Nowak please contact me? I have a question re: Ted Enslin. Thanks, David Clippinger, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of English and American Studies Penn State University 100 University Drive Monaca, PA 15061 (724) 773-3884 www.clippinger.com/david ____________________________________________________________________ The thinker as reader reads what has been written. He hears the words he reads to look upon Within his being Wallace Stevens, "Things of August" ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:42:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Jarnot Subject: duncan website Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My new Robert Duncan website is now up and running at: http://members.xoom.com/subpress/robertduncan.htm If anyone would like to contribute essays, photos, etc., please let me know. Thanks, Lisa Jarnot jarnot@pipeline.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:48:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Berkson Subject: Re: Tolson after Orono In-Reply-To: <200007171850.OAA20400@dept.english.upenn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Uh, um, hey! my copy of the City Lights reprint edition of Kora in Hell has "seventh printing October 1967" on the copyright page. The Scribners first edition of Creeley's Presences is dated 1976. Kora in Hell originally arrived in print in 1920, in Boston. You guys are teaching literature? in colleges?? Bill Berkson on 7/17/00 11:50 AM, Michael Magee at mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: . . . I had in mind a comment of Bob Perelman's about > WCW's KORA IN HELL arriving in print in the 70s almost as if it were the > contemporary of, say, Creeley's PRESENCES (my example). So, I never > intended to obscure the reception-history of Tolson's work but, rather, > merely to respond to some of Marjorie's comments regarding his influence > but suggesting that, on a very local level, I can imagine some of the best > young poets around responding in valuable ways to HARLEM GALLERY. Dig? > > -m. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:05:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Pittsburgh info wanted--readings & bookstores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi listmates, I'm headed to Pittsburgh in 10 days and wonder if anyone knows about readings and/or bookstores in the area. If so, could you please backchannel it to me at this e-dress. Thanks, David Kirschenbaum _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:42:22 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Frim Fram Sauce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a "Notes & Queries" kind of posting: Listening (repeatedly) to Nat King Cole singing "The Frim Fram Sauce" (J.Ricardel & R.Evans, recorded 1945) I get as far as "I want the Frim Fram Sauce with the awesome ...." & cannot make out the next word: awesome what does he want? & can anyone on the list please say what "Frim Fram Sauce" is & also "shofifa on the side" best Tony ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:52:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stefani Barber Subject: interesting article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit Whites Must Realise Rhodesia Wasn't Forever May 18, 2000 By Buzwani Mothobi because of the length, i'm not including the whole article, but if interested please go to: http://www.africanews.org/south/zimbabwe/stories/20000518/20000518_feat40.html --Stefani ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:39:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: THE MAROON REPLIES: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics In-Reply-To: <007f01bff03b$023e3070$790011ac@tmanage.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thank you for your friendly response. I'll think on it for a few days and then get back to you. These are important considerations. I take your viewpoints seriously. > From: Patrick Herron > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:04:25 -0400 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > Dear Richard - > > Your political analysis rides on the notion that somehow the clinton clan is > somehow 'liberal,' left,' etc. i think there are very clear deficiencies in > such an analysis. He's as right as any other republicrat out there. > there's a one-party system in america, and currently he's the leader. if > you have doubts about this tight network of relationships and who these > people similarly represent, look into the long-standing relationship between > the gore and clinton families and the bush family (hint: the Harrimans). > These people all represent the same people and are playing the same game, > but they just all wear different masks. Your divisions are entertaining, > Richard, at the very least in a traffic accident spectacle sort of way, but > they are also ones that better-informed people are often eager to reject. > in a way, rush limbaugh-esque rhetoric attacking clinton helps clinton > (remember rush is a bush crony, an experiment loosed from a psyop manual), > because it keeps the appearances of differences between the 'right' and the > 'left' intact, and keeps that shared power between bushes and clintons and > the elites that they both represent intact. > > americans don't necessarily want choice, but they do want to _believe_ they > have a choice, and they want to believe that they truly are given democratic > options, so that often makes them very fine dupes. > > do you wish to be predictable? are _you_ easily led? these are difficult > questions, and those of us who are not vigilant in asking ourselves these > two questions ultimately ARE duped. > > firing a gun at the bad guys when the bad guys and the good guys work for > the same people creates nothing but dead bodies and success for those people > who set up the puppet show at the outset. > > Patrick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard Dillon > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 8:42 AM > Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > >> The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. >> But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: >> "Let us struggle together!" >> >>> From: David Baptiste Chirot >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >>> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >>> >>> Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. >>> >>> Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at >>> such a great cost. >>> >>> In all senses of that word, cost-- >>> >>> In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is >>> eternal vigilance" >>> and the license plates read >>> "Live Free or Die" >>> >>> The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware >>> from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather > sheep >>> like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance >>> which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. >>> >>> The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be >>> peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, > all >>> too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl > for >>> blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a >>> "reasoned >>> discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and >>> debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, >>> upward lifted eyes and the like. >>> >>> It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at >>> putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley > concerned >>> with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter >>> rhetoric. >>> >>> The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the >>> self-proclaimed >>> openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. >>> >>> Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum >>> can't seem to get >>> reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. >>> >>> One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one >>> respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the >>> silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. >>> >>> Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise >>> and >>> more noise. >>> >>> Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe >>> altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for >>> you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a >>> remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and >>> the like. >>> >>> One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding >>> the posts to others,so they, >>> too can return the messages--and >>> the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his > own >>> returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off >>> like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. >>> >>> >>> In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante >>> man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding >>> back. >>> >>> "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" >>> >>> Terminal silence--or terminal overload. >>> >>> "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" >>> >>> --dbchirot >>> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:33:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Demarcations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Demarcations "Now, whatever is moist he created from semen, and that is Soma. All this universe is food and the eater of food. For Soma is food, and Agni is the eater of food. This was the surpassing creation of Brahma, for he created the gods, who were better than him, when he, being mortal, created immor- tals. Therefore it was a surpassing creation. Whoever knows this is born in that surpassing creation of his." (from Hindu Myths, Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty.) Certainly Jennifer is surpassing, because Jennifer has been the longest, takes all the time in the world, from the beginning to the end of time, and has been wide-variety. Certainly Julu is non-surpassing, because she is within Jennifer, and is thereby lesser, occupying narrow-variety, and within a limited of time. Certainly Nikuko is surpassing, because she is inspiration and breathing and demi-urge meat-girl big-god, and she is everywhere and lives within Jennifer but Jennifer lives within her. But certainly Alan is non-surpassing, because he must write for Jennifer and Julu and Nikuko, and his writing is the business of writing beings and the Being of writing, and he calls this writing, wryting. And it is non- surpassing because it dwells within him, choking him upon its vowels and consonants and semi-vowels. Now d'eruza is certainly surpassing and now d'nala is certainly non-sur- passing because d'eruza borders and bounds and binds, and d'nala is bordered and bound and bound by the arm movements of d'eruza, by the hand movements of d'eruza, by the finger movements of d'eruza. So d'nala is certainly non-surpassing and he is no wryting for d'eruza. Now certainly Jennifer is surpassing for the wryting of d'nala. This is the surpassing and the non-surpassing of being. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:01:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: bibliofind Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Of possible interest: I searched high and low for an out-of-print title by Haitian-Canadian writer Dany Laferriere, and just when I was about to give up, I finally found a copy for $7 through www.bibliofind.com. I have found www.bibliofind.com a useful tool when searching for out- of-print books.Bibliofind was acquired by Exchange.com, which was aquired by Amazon.com, which is a downer, but when you order from Bibliofind you deal directly with an independent book seller. Basically it's a consortium of independent book sellers who list their holdings in a searchable database, and when you find something you want you pay the bookstore directly and they send you your book. (Bibliofind doesn't collect any extra fees.) The bookstore who had what I wanted is an outfit in Las Vegas that deals primarily in the "paranormal" and UFOs! Who knows how Dany ended up there, but I found it amusing. Bibliofind has rare collectors' stuff too, in the hundreds of dollars range, but you can also find your basic books that you may have been searching for unsuccessfully on the used-book circuit. I'm always glad when the Web has something to offer that I actually consider useful (and no, I don't have a stake in bibliofind!).If anyone has used this or similar services, I'd be interested in hearing useful tips (or warnings). Kathy Lou Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:06:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Seen your dissertation lately? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It may be for sale at Contentville.com for $29.95 without your even knowing it! This site is causing a bit of an uproar for selling: a) publications that one can find for free in the public domain, and b) publications that they don't actually "own." I found Ph.D. dissertations from all manner of friends and acquaintances (including folks on this list), plus chapters from copyrighted books available "for immediate download." I'm having some reporter buddies dig up the dirt on this. Until then, you may want to go to this site and run a search on yourself. You may be surprised at what you find. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press http://www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:14:47 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: Little Review: Kevin Davies' Comp. In-Reply-To: <7BC5E7B79DD1D2119BCC0008C7E9653E0321084B@nyexch_3.na.randomhouse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Stefans, Brian wrote: > Kevin Davies > Comp. > Edge Books > $12.50 > ISBN: 1--890311--08--1 > 110 pp. > Like many younger poets from the west coast of Canada, Davies' > poetics derive from the cross-roads of "projective" speech-based verse -- > _Comp._ is one of the best books of poetry to have emerged from the > alternative American poetry scene in years, and is sure to revive many a Amazing, the alternative American poetry scene is so far out there it doesn't even reside in America. Please don't take this northern intervention too seriously just be careful. All the same, a wonderful review of what sounds like a dynomite book. bests, kevin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:14:52 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: In defense of Doug/ Baraka/Barthes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In response to W.A. Austin k.a.h. Well, another supplement. I guess I could get a few quantum guys on my tail. I could say that if everything is nothing, at least reality is meaningless But I think Derrida, too phenomenological hocus pocus See? Because I am suspicious of all religious/quasi-religious/platonist/mystical strategies, structuralism/poststructuralism conflated But the couch for us. Isn't to (a la Kant) occupy the prison house. Neither. But, I agree with you that the jargonese has worn very thin. Plain english all the way. Best. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:47:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: now i AM worried In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" . You would rather not deconstruct >Hilarity because such a truly radical act might perhaps cost you tenure. > If raising questions about Hillary Clinton might perhaps cost us tenure, will anybody be left to tenure? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:58:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Subject: The dillonbot (was Re: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have a question: Has anybody on this list ever met Richard Dillon in the flesh? Is he a real person -- the love child of G. Gordon Liddy and Lucianne Goldberg, suckled at the breast of the late Ed Dorn -- or is he some persona created for our amusement? And if the latter, who would do such a thing? Perhaps one of the several list members who either left or were booted (memories differ) over the last several years. Or perhaps our own Chas. Bernstein, who, some of us suspect, created an annoying list-member persona under another name in the list's early days. Finally, perhaps "he" (Dillon) is a not a maroon (tho he sings a Looney Tune) but a BOT, created by right-wing programmers at the Drudge Report or freerepublic.com, a bot which strings together right-wing conspiracy boilerplate as a parody of language writing or the much-alluded to (by the dillonbot) Burroughs. This last possibility gains more credence with me every time I read one of the dillonbot's posts. Cheers, David On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Richard Dillon wrote: > Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:38:43 -0400 > From: Richard Dillon > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > THE MAROON is not as clever as you paint him. You are. > > The Maroon believes Paul Fray and his wife, Trooper Patterson, and writer > Oppenheimer that Hilarity is a BIGOT AND A BULLY. > > You want to deconstruct THE MAROON and thus permit HILARITY her power over > you and the other poets in your school. You would rather not deconstruct > Hilarity because such a truly radical act might perhaps cost you tenure. > > Hilarity is a phony. Tears are in her eyes now for she's been found out > because multiple witnesses from different stations saw her deliver cruel > words and have seen what she is. Former allies who tried to help her would > not now lie. Not unless something more important were at stake, something > irreplaceable, call it conscience, call it liberty. Other former friends > and associated have passed away mysteriously as the Cyclone of the Clintons > appeared on the horizon of their lives, moved through, using them, catching > them up in vain idealisms, and went on its course. When Hilarity was > finished with the Arkansans they were 49th in education. Rape after rape > had gone unpunished. And the Lippo Bank, owned in part by Beijing Borg Jack > Booted Thugs (Their Tanks Once Stopped By The Maroon In Tiannamen Square), > had planted its first American outpost in Little Rock. > > There comes a time when you believe one side or the other and then > afterwards the Truth will out. THE MAROON, who gains no boon by this > endeavor, encourages you to trust him rather than the CLINTONISTAS. You > will feel better on Election Day if you do not give them your power in > whatever State you cast your vote............ if you vote, which I doubt. > > > > > > From: Richard Dillon > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:42:15 -0400 > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > > > The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. > > But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: > > "Let us struggle together!" > > > >> From: David Baptiste Chirot > >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > >> > >> Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. > >> > >> Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at > >> such a great cost. > >> > >> In all senses of that word, cost-- > >> > >> In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is > >> eternal vigilance" > >> and the license plates read > >> "Live Free or Die" > >> > >> The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware > >> from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep > >> like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance > >> which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. > >> > >> The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be > >> peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all > >> too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for > >> blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a > >> "reasoned > >> discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and > >> debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, > >> upward lifted eyes and the like. > >> > >> It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at > >> putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned > >> with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter > >> rhetoric. > >> > >> The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the > >> self-proclaimed > >> openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. > >> > >> Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum > >> can't seem to get > >> reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. > >> > >> One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one > >> respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the > >> silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. > >> > >> Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise > >> and > >> more noise. > >> > >> Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe > >> altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for > >> you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a > >> remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and > >> the like. > >> > >> One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding > >> the posts to others,so they, > >> too can return the messages--and > >> the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own > >> returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off > >> like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. > >> > >> > >> In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante > >> man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding > >> back. > >> > >> "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" > >> > >> Terminal silence--or terminal overload. > >> > >> "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" > >> > >> --dbchirot > >> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Kellogg Duke University kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:27:31 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Angle Press Angle Press Subject: Faucheuse/Brian Lucas @Blue Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed FAUCHEUSE a magazine of poetry, art, prose, and photography edited by Jeff Clark BRIAN LUCAS recent works on paper, wood, and canvas July 29, 2000 7pm to 11pm Blue Books @New College 777 Valencia St. San Francisco, California Faucheuse issue 3 includes work by: Amina Calil, Philip Lamantia, Damon Krukowski, Garrett Caples, Kerry McLaughlin, Brian Lucas, Vincent Blafard, Michel Auder, Alfreda Benge, Thurston Moore, Will Alexander, and many many more. Editor Clark is the author of "The Little Door Slides Back" (1998, Sun and Moon) and "Arab Rab" (1999, Seeing Eye Books). He has drum rolled for Buick , Hummingbird Mimes, and the Thirteenth Floor Elevators. 280 or so pages. Special event price is $5! Brian Lucas's poetry has appeared in Ur Vox, Rhizome, The Germ, and several more. He has recorded music with Mirza, Northway, and Hummingbird Mimes. He is represented by the William Fuld Gallery, Chicago. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:38:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: new @ duration press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are several new things to check out at the duration site... Black Square Editions, edited by John Yau has published John Olson, Garrett Caples, Richard Anders, & Jean Fremon http://www.durationpress.com/blacksquare/ The Owl Press, edited by Albert Flynn DeSilver has titles by Brendan Lorber & Edmund Berrigan...as well as several titles by DeSilver http://www.durationpress.com/owlpress/ Samizdat, edited by Robert Archambeau, is a newspaper-style magazine appearing three times per year http://www.durationpress.com/samizdat/ ixnay press, has published titles by carol mirakove, Kevin Varrone, Frank Sherlock, among others...the press also publishes ixnay magazine http://www.durationpress.com/ixnay/ Mark McMorris's chapbook, _Figures for a Hypothesis_, published by Leave Books a few years back, is now online http://www.durationpress.com/archives/ New poems by Elizabeth Robinson, are also online http://www.durationpress.com/authors/robinson/home.html In the works are works by Jesse Glass, as well as a site for Primitive Publications, as well as a revamped site for Talisman House. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:15:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: interesting article In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Stefani, Thanks for your timely article. There are all kinds and stripes of Africans. Let them all find their ways to well being! Richard > From: Stefani Barber > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:52:00 -0800 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: interesting article > > Whites Must Realise Rhodesia Wasn't Forever > > > May 18, 2000 > By Buzwani Mothobi > > because of the length, i'm not including the whole article, but if interested > please go to: > > http://www.africanews.org/south/zimbabwe/stories/20000518/20000518_feat40.html > > --Stefani > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:21:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Kellogg: It's a Jung kind of thing. Cheerio! > > I have a question: > > Has anybody on this list ever met Richard Dillon in the flesh? Is he a > real person -- the love child of G. Gordon Liddy and Lucianne Goldberg, > suckled at the breast of the late Ed Dorn -- or is he some persona created > for our amusement? And if the latter, who would do such a thing? Perhaps > one of the several list members who either left or were booted (memories > differ) over the last several years. Or perhaps our own Chas. Bernstein, > who, some of us suspect, created an annoying list-member persona under > another name in the list's early days. Finally, perhaps "he" (Dillon) is a > not a maroon (tho he sings a Looney Tune) but a BOT, created by right-wing > programmers at the Drudge Report or freerepublic.com, a bot which strings > together right-wing conspiracy boilerplate as a parody of language writing > or the much-alluded to (by the dillonbot) Burroughs. This last > possibility gains more credence with me every time I read one of the > dillonbot's posts. > > Cheers, > David > > > On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Richard Dillon wrote: > >> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:38:43 -0400 >> From: Richard Dillon >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >> >> THE MAROON is not as clever as you paint him. You are. >> >> The Maroon believes Paul Fray and his wife, Trooper Patterson, and writer >> Oppenheimer that Hilarity is a BIGOT AND A BULLY. >> >> You want to deconstruct THE MAROON and thus permit HILARITY her power over >> you and the other poets in your school. You would rather not deconstruct >> Hilarity because such a truly radical act might perhaps cost you tenure. >> >> Hilarity is a phony. Tears are in her eyes now for she's been found out >> because multiple witnesses from different stations saw her deliver cruel >> words and have seen what she is. Former allies who tried to help her would >> not now lie. Not unless something more important were at stake, something >> irreplaceable, call it conscience, call it liberty. Other former friends >> and associated have passed away mysteriously as the Cyclone of the Clintons >> appeared on the horizon of their lives, moved through, using them, catching >> them up in vain idealisms, and went on its course. When Hilarity was >> finished with the Arkansans they were 49th in education. Rape after rape >> had gone unpunished. And the Lippo Bank, owned in part by Beijing Borg Jack >> Booted Thugs (Their Tanks Once Stopped By The Maroon In Tiannamen Square), >> had planted its first American outpost in Little Rock. >> >> There comes a time when you believe one side or the other and then >> afterwards the Truth will out. THE MAROON, who gains no boon by this >> endeavor, encourages you to trust him rather than the CLINTONISTAS. You >> will feel better on Election Day if you do not give them your power in >> whatever State you cast your vote............ if you vote, which I doubt. >> >> >> >> >>> From: Richard Dillon >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:42:15 -0400 >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >>> >>> The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. >>> But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: >>> "Let us struggle together!" >>> >>>> From: David Baptiste Chirot >>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>>> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >>>> >>>> Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. >>>> >>>> Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at >>>> such a great cost. >>>> >>>> In all senses of that word, cost-- >>>> >>>> In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is >>>> eternal vigilance" >>>> and the license plates read >>>> "Live Free or Die" >>>> >>>> The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware >>>> from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep >>>> like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance >>>> which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. >>>> >>>> The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be >>>> peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all >>>> too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for >>>> blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a >>>> "reasoned >>>> discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and >>>> debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, >>>> upward lifted eyes and the like. >>>> >>>> It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at >>>> putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned >>>> with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter >>>> rhetoric. >>>> >>>> The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the >>>> self-proclaimed >>>> openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. >>>> >>>> Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum >>>> can't seem to get >>>> reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. >>>> >>>> One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one >>>> respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the >>>> silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. >>>> >>>> Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise >>>> and >>>> more noise. >>>> >>>> Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe >>>> altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for >>>> you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a >>>> remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and >>>> the like. >>>> >>>> One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding >>>> the posts to others,so they, >>>> too can return the messages--and >>>> the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own >>>> returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off >>>> like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. >>>> >>>> >>>> In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante >>>> man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding >>>> back. >>>> >>>> "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" >>>> >>>> Terminal silence--or terminal overload. >>>> >>>> "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" >>>> >>>> --dbchirot >>>> >>> >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > David Kellogg Duke University > kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing > (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 > FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:26:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Michael G. Salinger" Subject: Re: Pittsburgh info wanted--readings & bookstores MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out Sun Crumbs. They are a poetry presenting organization. http://www.suncrumbs.org Also, the Beehive is a pretty hep coffee shop where you may find out more about the poetry scene in pitt. m. salinger David Kirschenbaum wrote: > Hi listmates, > > I'm headed to Pittsburgh in 10 days and wonder if anyone knows about > readings and/or bookstores in the area. If so, could you please backchannel > it to me at this e-dress. > > Thanks, > > David Kirschenbaum > > _______________________________________________________ > Say Bye to Slow Internet! > http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:28:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: Valente dies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Spanish poet Jose Angel Valente has died in Geneva. Born in Ourense in 1929, he is the author of many books of poetry and prose over the past 50 years or so. A kind of mystical poet in the tradition of San Juan de la Cruz. Also a translator of Celan and Kavafy and collaborator with Catalan painter Antoni Tapies. He wrote mainly in Catilian, but also has some poems in his native Galician. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:35:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: Little Review: Kevin Davies' Comp. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Actually, the "alternative American poetry scene" that Brian refers to that the Canadian writer is a part of _is_ inclusive of Canada and technically could be considered "American" (if not in the way the word "American" is most commonly used and understood) since Canada is a very big part of the North American Continent. If Brian had said "alternative US poetry scene" then I could see why caution would be necessary. Ken Rumble At 03:14 PM 7/19/2000 -02-30, you wrote: >On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Stefans, Brian wrote: > >> Kevin Davies >> Comp. >> Edge Books >> $12.50 >> ISBN: 1--890311--08--1 >> 110 pp. > >> Like many younger poets from the west coast of Canada, Davies' >> poetics derive from the cross-roads of "projective" speech-based verse -- > > >> _Comp._ is one of the best books of poetry to have emerged from the >> alternative American poetry scene in years, and is sure to revive many a > > >Amazing, the alternative American poetry scene is so far out there it >doesn't even reside in America. Please don't take this northern >intervention too seriously just be careful. > >All the same, a wonderful review of what sounds like a dynomite book. > >bests, >kevin > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:56:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Frim Fram Sauce In-Reply-To: <007401bff101$16350ce0$43f2a7cb@a> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >This is a "Notes & Queries" kind of posting: > >Listening (repeatedly) to Nat King Cole singing "The Frim Fram Sauce" >(J.Ricardel & R.Evans, recorded 1945) I get as far as >"I want the Frim Fram Sauce with the awesome ...." >& cannot make out the next word: awesome what >does he want? & can anyone on the list please say > what "Frim Fram Sauce" is & also "shofifa on the side" I have had Louis Armstrong's version of that song since the 50s, and i have been wondering some of tha stuff too. Even on Diane Kroll's version it is hard to tell. But I have never heard the word "awesome" , not even before its recent meaning, which appears to be "pretty good." I thought he was asking for the =E9toff=E9, which you do get in Cajun food. I have always wondered what it was on the side. I mean I have been wondering for 50 years. Sounded like "chuvabah" or something. Someone in N'awluns tell us. -- George Bowering =46ax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:06:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Little Review: Kevin Davies' Comp. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Stefans, Brian wrote: > >> Kevin Davies >> Comp. >> Edge Books >> $12.50 >> ISBN: 1--890311--08--1 >> 110 pp. > >> Like many younger poets from the west coast of Canada, Davies' >> poetics derive from the cross-roads of "projective" speech-based verse -- > > >> _Comp._ is one of the best books of poetry to have emerged from the >> alternative American poetry scene in years, and is sure to revive many a > > >Amazing, the alternative American poetry scene is so far out there it >doesn't even reside in America. Please don't take this northern >intervention too seriously just be careful. It resides in America, just not the USA. Why go along with people who call the latter "America"? Why didnt they go the whole way and call it "The World"? > >All the same, a wonderful review of what sounds like a dynomite book. > >bests, >kevin It IS a terrific book. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:26:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Re: The dillonbot (was Re: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear David, my thinking exactly, was going to pop that question myself but it's such a touchy one, sure to get the ire of those deniers of surveillance and cointelpro activity. RDL -----Original Message----- From: David Kellogg To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 3:58 PM Subject: The dillonbot (was Re: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics) >I have a question: > >Has anybody on this list ever met Richard Dillon in the flesh? Is he a >real person -- the love child of G. Gordon Liddy and Lucianne Goldberg, >suckled at the breast of the late Ed Dorn -- or is he some persona created >for our amusement? And if the latter, who would do such a thing? Perhaps >one of the several list members who either left or were booted (memories >differ) over the last several years. Or perhaps our own Chas. Bernstein, >who, some of us suspect, created an annoying list-member persona under >another name in the list's early days. Finally, perhaps "he" (Dillon) is a >not a maroon (tho he sings a Looney Tune) but a BOT, created by right-wing >programmers at the Drudge Report or freerepublic.com, a bot which strings >together right-wing conspiracy boilerplate as a parody of language writing >or the much-alluded to (by the dillonbot) Burroughs. This last >possibility gains more credence with me every time I read one of the >dillonbot's posts. > >Cheers, >David > > >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Richard Dillon wrote: > >> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:38:43 -0400 >> From: Richard Dillon >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >> >> THE MAROON is not as clever as you paint him. You are. >> >> The Maroon believes Paul Fray and his wife, Trooper Patterson, and writer >> Oppenheimer that Hilarity is a BIGOT AND A BULLY. >> >> You want to deconstruct THE MAROON and thus permit HILARITY her power over >> you and the other poets in your school. You would rather not deconstruct >> Hilarity because such a truly radical act might perhaps cost you tenure. >> >> Hilarity is a phony. Tears are in her eyes now for she's been found out >> because multiple witnesses from different stations saw her deliver cruel >> words and have seen what she is. Former allies who tried to help her would >> not now lie. Not unless something more important were at stake, something >> irreplaceable, call it conscience, call it liberty. Other former friends >> and associated have passed away mysteriously as the Cyclone of the Clintons >> appeared on the horizon of their lives, moved through, using them, catching >> them up in vain idealisms, and went on its course. When Hilarity was >> finished with the Arkansans they were 49th in education. Rape after rape >> had gone unpunished. And the Lippo Bank, owned in part by Beijing Borg Jack >> Booted Thugs (Their Tanks Once Stopped By The Maroon In Tiannamen Square), >> had planted its first American outpost in Little Rock. >> >> There comes a time when you believe one side or the other and then >> afterwards the Truth will out. THE MAROON, who gains no boon by this >> endeavor, encourages you to trust him rather than the CLINTONISTAS. You >> will feel better on Election Day if you do not give them your power in >> whatever State you cast your vote............ if you vote, which I doubt. >> >> >> >> >> > From: Richard Dillon >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:42:15 -0400 >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >> > >> > The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. >> > But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: >> > "Let us struggle together!" >> > >> >> From: David Baptiste Chirot >> >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> >> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 >> >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> >> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >> >> >> >> Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. >> >> >> >> Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at >> >> such a great cost. >> >> >> >> In all senses of that word, cost-- >> >> >> >> In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is >> >> eternal vigilance" >> >> and the license plates read >> >> "Live Free or Die" >> >> >> >> The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware >> >> from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep >> >> like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance >> >> which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. >> >> >> >> The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be >> >> peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all >> >> too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for >> >> blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a >> >> "reasoned >> >> discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and >> >> debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, >> >> upward lifted eyes and the like. >> >> >> >> It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at >> >> putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned >> >> with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter >> >> rhetoric. >> >> >> >> The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the >> >> self-proclaimed >> >> openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. >> >> >> >> Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum >> >> can't seem to get >> >> reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. >> >> >> >> One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one >> >> respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the >> >> silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. >> >> >> >> Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise >> >> and >> >> more noise. >> >> >> >> Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe >> >> altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for >> >> you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a >> >> remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and >> >> the like. >> >> >> >> One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding >> >> the posts to others,so they, >> >> too can return the messages--and >> >> the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own >> >> returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off >> >> like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. >> >> >> >> >> >> In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante >> >> man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding >> >> back. >> >> >> >> "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" >> >> >> >> Terminal silence--or terminal overload. >> >> >> >> "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" >> >> >> >> --dbchirot >> >> >> > >> >> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >David Kellogg Duke University >kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing >(919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 >FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:01:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Subject: Re: The dillonbot (was Re: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics) Comments: cc: Joseph.Safdie@lwtc.ctc.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Joe, You're probably correct; I got carried away, and I retract that association. But I may have (mis?)remembered RD as making that association himself. Once in awhile, I think, he remembers he's on a poetics list and throws in a name or two. Not that I want to reread his posts to prove this. I also must regretfully announce that I have it on good authority that Richard Dillon is an actual person, more or less. So my hopes for parody or a bot have been dashed. Best, David On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Safdie Joseph wrote: > Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:42:47 -0700 > From: Safdie Joseph > To: 'David Kellogg ' > Subject: RE: The dillonbot (was Re: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics) > > David, to mention Ed Dorn's name -- even peripherally -- in association > with this ignoramous is a colossal error of judgement, as is the > pre-supposition that Ed's politics were right wing. Be more careful. > > Joe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Kellogg > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: 07/18/2000 11:58 AM > Subject: The dillonbot (was Re: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & > Immoderate Poetics) > > I have a question: > > Has anybody on this list ever met Richard Dillon in the flesh? Is he a > real person -- the love child of G. Gordon Liddy and Lucianne Goldberg, > suckled at the breast of the late Ed Dorn -- or is he some persona > created > for our amusement? And if the latter, who would do such a thing? > Perhaps > one of the several list members who either left or were booted (memories > differ) over the last several years. Or perhaps our own Chas. > Bernstein, > who, some of us suspect, created an annoying list-member persona under > another name in the list's early days. Finally, perhaps "he" (Dillon) is > a > not a maroon (tho he sings a Looney Tune) but a BOT, created by > right-wing > programmers at the Drudge Report or freerepublic.com, a bot which > strings > together right-wing conspiracy boilerplate as a parody of language > writing > or the much-alluded to (by the dillonbot) Burroughs. This last > possibility gains more credence with me every time I read one of the > dillonbot's posts. > > Cheers, > David > > > On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Richard Dillon wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:38:43 -0400 > > From: Richard Dillon > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > > > THE MAROON is not as clever as you paint him. You are. > > > > The Maroon believes Paul Fray and his wife, Trooper Patterson, and > writer > > Oppenheimer that Hilarity is a BIGOT AND A BULLY. > > > > You want to deconstruct THE MAROON and thus permit HILARITY her power > over > > you and the other poets in your school. You would rather not > deconstruct > > Hilarity because such a truly radical act might perhaps cost you > tenure. > > > > Hilarity is a phony. Tears are in her eyes now for she's been found > out > > because multiple witnesses from different stations saw her deliver > cruel > > words and have seen what she is. Former allies who tried to help her > would > > not now lie. Not unless something more important were at stake, > something > > irreplaceable, call it conscience, call it liberty. Other former > friends > > and associated have passed away mysteriously as the Cyclone of the > Clintons > > appeared on the horizon of their lives, moved through, using them, > catching > > them up in vain idealisms, and went on its course. When Hilarity was > > finished with the Arkansans they were 49th in education. Rape after > rape > > had gone unpunished. And the Lippo Bank, owned in part by Beijing > Borg Jack > > Booted Thugs (Their Tanks Once Stopped By The Maroon In Tiannamen > Square), > > had planted its first American outpost in Little Rock. > > > > There comes a time when you believe one side or the other and then > > afterwards the Truth will out. THE MAROON, who gains no boon by this > > endeavor, encourages you to trust him rather than the CLINTONISTAS. > You > > will feel better on Election Day if you do not give them your power in > > whatever State you cast your vote............ if you vote, which I > doubt. > > > > > > > > > > > From: Richard Dillon > > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:42:15 -0400 > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > > > > > The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's > head. > > > But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore > said: > > > "Let us struggle together!" > > > > > >> From: David Baptiste Chirot > > >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > >> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 > > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics > > >> > > >> Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. > > >> > > >> Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at > > >> such a great cost. > > >> > > >> In all senses of that word, cost-- > > >> > > >> In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is > > >> eternal vigilance" > > >> and the license plates read > > >> "Live Free or Die" > > >> > > >> The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware > > >> from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as > rather sheep > > >> like self righteous persons going about their business with an > assurance > > >> which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. > > >> > > >> The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be > > >> peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's > clothing, all > > >> too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and > howl for > > >> blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a > > >> "reasoned > > >> discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts > and > > >> debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting > chins, > > >> upward lifted eyes and the like. > > >> > > >> It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at > > >> putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley > concerned > > >> with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a > counter > > >> rhetoric. > > >> > > >> The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the > > >> self-proclaimed > > >> openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to > be. > > >> > > >> Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum > > >> can't seem to get > > >> reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few > suggestions. > > >> > > >> One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one > > >> respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto > "the > > >> silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. > > >> > > >> Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise > > >> and > > >> more noise. > > >> > > >> Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe > > >> altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit > for > > >> you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a > > >> remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" > and > > >> the like. > > >> > > >> One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding > > >> the posts to others,so they, > > >> too can return the messages--and > > >> the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with > his own > > >> returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings > going off > > >> like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. > > >> > > >> > > >> In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante > > >> man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or > responding > > >> back. > > >> > > >> "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" > > >> > > >> Terminal silence--or terminal overload. > > >> > > >> "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" > > >> > > >> --dbchirot > > >> > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > David Kellogg Duke University > kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Center for Teaching, Learning, and > Writing > (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 > FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Kellogg Duke University kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:48:48 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob Holloway Subject: The dillonbot In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 co-incidentally enough, I came across some early work by Richard Dillon about the same time that he appeared on the list - a number of poems in issues one and three of Alan Davies' first magazine 'Oculist Witnesses' - unfortunately have since lent these and so am unable to give you an example, suffice to say the work was similar to Alan's pre-Lang days - a kind of conversational lyricism, an everydayness with surrealistic nods - It was fine - Saroyan, Mayer and some early Silliman and Watten in same issues - certainly very different from the present noise - tho' the response to Patrick's recent post seemed more promising - ready for another mind shift Richard? Any other spottings? Rob Holloway. >I have a question: > >Has anybody on this list ever met Richard Dillon in the flesh? Is he a >real person -- the love child of G. Gordon Liddy and Lucianne Goldberg, >suckled at the breast of the late Ed Dorn -- or is he some persona created >for our amusement? And if the latter, who would do such a thing? Perhaps >one of the several list members who either left or were booted (memories >differ) over the last several years. Or perhaps our own Chas. Bernstein, >who, some of us suspect, created an annoying list-member persona under >another name in the list's early days. Finally, perhaps "he" (Dillon) is a >not a maroon (tho he sings a Looney Tune) but a BOT, created by right-wing >programmers at the Drudge Report or freerepublic.com, a bot which strings >together right-wing conspiracy boilerplate as a parody of language writing >or the much-alluded to (by the dillonbot) Burroughs. This last >possibility gains more credence with me every time I read one of the >dillonbot's posts. > >Cheers, >David > > >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Richard Dillon wrote: > >> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:38:43 -0400 >> From: Richard Dillon >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >> >> THE MAROON is not as clever as you paint him. You are. >> >> The Maroon believes Paul Fray and his wife, Trooper Patterson, and writer >> Oppenheimer that Hilarity is a BIGOT AND A BULLY. >> >> You want to deconstruct THE MAROON and thus permit HILARITY her power over >> you and the other poets in your school. You would rather not deconstruct >> Hilarity because such a truly radical act might perhaps cost you tenure. >> >> Hilarity is a phony. Tears are in her eyes now for she's been found out >> because multiple witnesses from different stations saw her deliver cruel >> words and have seen what she is. Former allies who tried to help her would >> not now lie. Not unless something more important were at stake, something >> irreplaceable, call it conscience, call it liberty. Other former friends >> and associated have passed away mysteriously as the Cyclone of the Clintons >> appeared on the horizon of their lives, moved through, using them, catching >> them up in vain idealisms, and went on its course. When Hilarity was >> finished with the Arkansans they were 49th in education. Rape after rape >> had gone unpunished. And the Lippo Bank, owned in part by Beijing Borg Jack >> Booted Thugs (Their Tanks Once Stopped By The Maroon In Tiannamen Square), >> had planted its first American outpost in Little Rock. >> >> There comes a time when you believe one side or the other and then >> afterwards the Truth will out. THE MAROON, who gains no boon by this >> endeavor, encourages you to trust him rather than the CLINTONISTAS. You >> will feel better on Election Day if you do not give them your power in >> whatever State you cast your vote............ if you vote, which I doubt. >> >> >> >> >> > From: Richard Dillon >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:42:15 -0400 >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >> > >> > The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. >> > But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: >> > "Let us struggle together!" >> > >> >> From: David Baptiste Chirot >> >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> >> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 >> >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> >> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >> >> >> >> Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. >> >> >> >> Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at >> >> such a great cost. >> >> >> >> In all senses of that word, cost-- >> >> >> >> In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is >> >> eternal vigilance" >> >> and the license plates read >> >> "Live Free or Die" >> >> >> >> The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware >> >> from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep >> >> like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance >> >> which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. >> >> >> >> The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be >> >> peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all >> >> too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for >> >> blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a >> >> "reasoned >> >> discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and >> >> debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, >> >> upward lifted eyes and the like. >> >> >> >> It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at >> >> putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned >> >> with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter >> >> rhetoric. >> >> >> >> The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the >> >> self-proclaimed >> >> openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. >> >> >> >> Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum >> >> can't seem to get >> >> reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. >> >> >> >> One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one >> >> respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the >> >> silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. >> >> >> >> Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise >> >> and >> >> more noise. >> >> >> >> Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe >> >> altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for >> >> you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a >> >> remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and >> >> the like. >> >> >> >> One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding >> >> the posts to others,so they, >> >> too can return the messages--and >> >> the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own >> >> returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off >> >> like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. >> >> >> >> >> >> In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante >> >> man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding >> >> back. >> >> >> >> "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" >> >> >> >> Terminal silence--or terminal overload. >> >> >> >> "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" >> >> >> >> --dbchirot >> >> >> > >> >> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >David Kellogg Duke University >kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing >(919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 >FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:13:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Loss =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peque=F1o?= Glazier Subject: EPC in the News Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am pleased to announce an article about the Electronic Poetry Center in the Information Technology section of the current issue of _The Chronicle of Higher Education_. The article is now available online if you go to http://www.chronicle.com/ and click on headline, "The Bards of Buffalo". I haven't seen the print version yet but I think that it will be slightly more expansive, possibly including photos and/or examples of some of the works discussed. The article quotes a number of people familiar to this list. It is great to see digital poetry receive attention from such an important source! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:20:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Summer Hours MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Poetics List moderation may be (has been) somewhat intermittent over the summer due to the vacation plans of the moderators. Our apologies for the occasional lag. - Tim Shaner ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:22:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: san francisco reading aug 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please mark your calendars! synapse: second sundays at blue bar --presents-- august 13, 2000 yedda morrison and robin tremblay-mcgaw 2:00 p.m. $2.00 blue bar is at 501 broadway, at kearney, in sf enter thru black cat restaurant, same address Yedda Morrison was born in San Francisco, where she continues to write and paint. She is the founding editor and publisher of tripwire, a journal of experimental poetics, which she co-produces with David Buuck. Recent work can be found in: Kenning, Lyric&, Mirage #4/Period(ical), The Object Anthology, Outlet, Primary Writing, and Torque. Her chapbooks are The Marriage of the Well Built Head (Double Lucy Books, 1998); Apostasy (forthcoming from Melodeon); and Shed, new from a+bend press. Originally from New Hampshire, Robin Tremblay-McGaw lives in San Francisco. She has worked as a rape crisis counselor, waitress, gas station attendant, English teacher, bookstore clerk, and library assistant. Currently she is the Information Services Director and Web Master at a nonprofit working on gun control. Robin co-edits Lipstick 11 with Kathy Lou Schultz and Jim Brashear; and she co-edited, with Kathy Lou Schultz, the forum on Class & Innovative Writing for HOW2, September 1999. Recent work is in Five Fingers Review, HOW2, and Outlet; and her chapbooks are after a grand collage (Dyad Press, 1996) and making mARKs (a+bend press, 2000). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:56:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ramez Qureshi Subject: Re: submissions desired MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/2000 2:46:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dinsmore@STUDIOCLEO.COM writes: << Cauldron & Net, an electronic magazine of the arts and new media, is currently reading/viewing submissions for vol.II, no.II [from may 1 - september 15, or until journal is full] The guidelines are as follows: my [ideal] conception is: for this to be a showcase of diverse voices of the arts & criticism. i would like the focus to be on the creative process, i.e., i would like the submissions to be of ideas, concepts, notes -- not simply of finished (polished) pieces. the RAW is invited: works that may retain the edge of their (hopefully inspired) inception. this means the desire is for experimental work -- however obscure. nonetheless: the guidelines are very broad as cauldron & net is particularly interested in showcasing the wide variety of the diverse voices which may be found on the Net. that means that [almost] all is invited: literature, poetry, nonfiction [creative or otherwise], hypertext/hypermedia, theory, criticism, reviews, music, photographs of performance or other 'hard-copy' art,experiments, outlines /sketches of ideas, jottings, notes, proposals, research papers, sophistries, etc., etc., etc. quality is really the only criterion [though of course such judgments are left to the discretion of a rather opinionated editor]. programmers and computer scientists who have ideas and/or work that a 'wired' laywo/man could grasp are [enthusiastically!] invited to submit also. simultaneous submissions and work that has already been published will be considered, although the preference is for unpublished work. please send all inquiries / submissions as e-mail attachments [as plain text in the body of a mail if you work on a Mac] or URL indications in the body of a mail to: cauldron@studiocleo.com Claire Dinsmore, Editor -- "You must deny the ineffable,for somehow it will speak ..." - Stephane Mallarme latest web work: http://www.studiocleo.com/projects/meridian/crimson/ http://www.studiocleo.com/entrancehall.html Mon Cherie Redacteur: Hello. I'm glad to see _C & N_ is still in business. I really like your latest issue, & have been spreading the word. I want to query about two pieces of criticism for you. The first concerns a review of the Prinzhorn collection of outsider art, which showed at the Shoho Drawing Center in New York, & is currently on display at the Hammer in L.A. I belive you mentioned you were in L.A. The second is a discussion of the dance company Momix, with continual reference to Wagner. I can make these conventional essays, or, judging by your call, something more rhetorically off the beaten path, if you prefer. Do let me know. -Ramez ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:08:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Pittsburgh info wanted--readings & bookstores In-Reply-To: <39760F05.91399604@en.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII in my time in Pittsburgh, a bar called "Hemingways" had a regular reading series of poetry & fiction. the bar was in Oakland, the university neighborhood, directly across from the Cathedral of Learning, the tallest educational building in America. if the Beehive is still going on, it's a good bet, too. in fact, if the Beehive is still going strong, give it my best. as well as the Squirrel Cage. robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Michael G. Salinger wrote: > Check out Sun Crumbs. They are a poetry presenting organization. > http://www.suncrumbs.org > > Also, the Beehive is a pretty hep coffee shop where you may find out more about > the poetry scene in pitt. > > m. salinger > > David Kirschenbaum wrote: > > > Hi listmates, > > > > I'm headed to Pittsburgh in 10 days and wonder if anyone knows about > > readings and/or bookstores in the area. If so, could you please backchannel > > it to me at this e-dress. > > > > Thanks, > > > > David Kirschenbaum > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Say Bye to Slow Internet! > > http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:24:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Massey Subject: Robert Kelly contact info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'ello list, if anyone has a snail mail addy for Robert Kelly, please backchannel? thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:39:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: The MAROON Retorts: In-Reply-To: <4MEPxEAQBjd5Ewjw@voxall.demon.co.uk> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You guys dubbed me The Maroon. And so it is. And so it shall be. > From: Rob Holloway > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:48:48 +0100 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: The dillonbot > > co-incidentally enough, I came across some early work by Richard Dillon > about the same time that he appeared on the list - a number of poems in > issues one and three of Alan Davies' first magazine 'Oculist Witnesses' > - unfortunately have since lent these and so am unable to give you an > example, suffice to say the work was similar to Alan's pre-Lang days - a > kind of conversational lyricism, an everydayness with surrealistic nods > - It was fine - Saroyan, Mayer and some early Silliman and Watten in > same issues - certainly very different from the present noise - tho' the > response to Patrick's recent post seemed more promising - ready for > another mind shift Richard? Any other spottings? > > Rob Holloway. > > > > > > > > >> I have a question: >> >> Has anybody on this list ever met Richard Dillon in the flesh? Is he a >> real person -- the love child of G. Gordon Liddy and Lucianne Goldberg, >> suckled at the breast of the late Ed Dorn -- or is he some persona created >> for our amusement? And if the latter, who would do such a thing? Perhaps >> one of the several list members who either left or were booted (memories >> differ) over the last several years. Or perhaps our own Chas. Bernstein, >> who, some of us suspect, created an annoying list-member persona under >> another name in the list's early days. Finally, perhaps "he" (Dillon) is a >> not a maroon (tho he sings a Looney Tune) but a BOT, created by right-wing >> programmers at the Drudge Report or freerepublic.com, a bot which strings >> together right-wing conspiracy boilerplate as a parody of language writing >> or the much-alluded to (by the dillonbot) Burroughs. This last >> possibility gains more credence with me every time I read one of the >> dillonbot's posts. >> >> Cheers, >> David >> >> >> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Richard Dillon wrote: >> >>> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:38:43 -0400 >>> From: Richard Dillon >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >>> >>> THE MAROON is not as clever as you paint him. You are. >>> >>> The Maroon believes Paul Fray and his wife, Trooper Patterson, and writer >>> Oppenheimer that Hilarity is a BIGOT AND A BULLY. >>> >>> You want to deconstruct THE MAROON and thus permit HILARITY her power over >>> you and the other poets in your school. You would rather not deconstruct >>> Hilarity because such a truly radical act might perhaps cost you tenure. >>> >>> Hilarity is a phony. Tears are in her eyes now for she's been found out >>> because multiple witnesses from different stations saw her deliver cruel >>> words and have seen what she is. Former allies who tried to help her would >>> not now lie. Not unless something more important were at stake, something >>> irreplaceable, call it conscience, call it liberty. Other former friends >>> and associated have passed away mysteriously as the Cyclone of the Clintons >>> appeared on the horizon of their lives, moved through, using them, catching >>> them up in vain idealisms, and went on its course. When Hilarity was >>> finished with the Arkansans they were 49th in education. Rape after rape >>> had gone unpunished. And the Lippo Bank, owned in part by Beijing Borg Jack >>> Booted Thugs (Their Tanks Once Stopped By The Maroon In Tiannamen Square), >>> had planted its first American outpost in Little Rock. >>> >>> There comes a time when you believe one side or the other and then >>> afterwards the Truth will out. THE MAROON, who gains no boon by this >>> endeavor, encourages you to trust him rather than the CLINTONISTAS. You >>> will feel better on Election Day if you do not give them your power in >>> whatever State you cast your vote............ if you vote, which I doubt. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: Richard Dillon >>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>>> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:42:15 -0400 >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >>>> >>>> The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. >>>> But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: >>>> "Let us struggle together!" >>>> >>>>> From: David Baptiste Chirot >>>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 >>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >>>>> >>>>> Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. >>>>> >>>>> Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at >>>>> such a great cost. >>>>> >>>>> In all senses of that word, cost-- >>>>> >>>>> In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is >>>>> eternal vigilance" >>>>> and the license plates read >>>>> "Live Free or Die" >>>>> >>>>> The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware >>>>> from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep >>>>> like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance >>>>> which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. >>>>> >>>>> The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be >>>>> peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all >>>>> too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for >>>>> blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a >>>>> "reasoned >>>>> discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and >>>>> debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, >>>>> upward lifted eyes and the like. >>>>> >>>>> It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at >>>>> putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned >>>>> with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter >>>>> rhetoric. >>>>> >>>>> The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the >>>>> self-proclaimed >>>>> openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. >>>>> >>>>> Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum >>>>> can't seem to get >>>>> reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one >>>>> respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the >>>>> silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. >>>>> >>>>> Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise >>>>> and >>>>> more noise. >>>>> >>>>> Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe >>>>> altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for >>>>> you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a >>>>> remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and >>>>> the like. >>>>> >>>>> One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding >>>>> the posts to others,so they, >>>>> too can return the messages--and >>>>> the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own >>>>> returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off >>>>> like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante >>>>> man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding >>>>> back. >>>>> >>>>> "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" >>>>> >>>>> Terminal silence--or terminal overload. >>>>> >>>>> "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" >>>>> >>>>> --dbchirot >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> David Kellogg Duke University >> kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing >> (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 >> FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 03:12:27 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Re: The dillonbot Comments: To: Rob Holloway MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I don't know about bots -- but -- I was just at that sixties conference, during which I discovered that David Kellogg is a replicant! Both of him were quite nice, wonderfully and convincingly produced -- I think there was a paper at the conference that linked Dillon to Baraka? oooo weeee ooooo, as Ed Sanders once said -- "Has All-- a Codicil?" -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Department of English Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:29:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: Re-Kora In-Reply-To: <200007200518.e6K5ITD23856@pony.its.uwo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII bill berkson points out: >Uh, um, hey! my copy of the City Lights reprint edition of Kora in Hell >has "seventh printing October 1967" on the copyright page. The Scribners >first edition of Creeley's Presences is dated 1976. Kora in Hell >originally arrived in print in 1920, in Boston. in reference to michael magee's >. . . I had in mind a comment of Bob Perelman's about WCW's KORA IN HELL >arriving in print in the 70s almost as if it were the contemporary of, >say, Creeley's PRESENCES (my example). mike perhaps also has in mind the appearance of IMAGINATIONS from new directions in 1970, not only reprinting (once again) the text of KORA but also the original preface (for the first time since 1920 i believe), as well as the complete text of SPRING & ALL for the first time since 1923. bests, t. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:35:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: KRUPSKAYA 2000 publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had to reformat this message. - T. Shaner Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:43:22 -0800 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > From: Jocelyn Saidenberg > Subject: KRUPSKAYA 2000 publications > > > The publishing collective KRUPSKAYA is pleased to announce our 2000 > publications. > > Mike Amnasan Beyond the Safety of Dreams > 63 pages, $9, ISBN 1-928650-04-X > > Stacy Doris Paramour > 138 pages, $9, ISBN 1-928650-05-8 > > Ben Friedlander A Knot Is Not a Tangle > 126 pages, $9, ISBN 1-928650-06-6 > > Laura Moriarty Nude Memoir > 88 pages, $9, ISBN 1-928650-07-4 > > All books available from SPD 800/869-7553 or www.spdbooks.org > > For more information: www.krupskayabooks.com or email: jocelyns@sirius.com > > > ******************************* > > > > KRUPSKAYA > P.O. Box 420249 > San Francisco, CA 94142-0249 > jocelyns@sirius.com > www.KRUPSKAYABOOKS.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:33:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Rob, >here I am thinking back to Theresa Cha before the Korean American > takeover of her identity What do you mean by this, please? Tisa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:22:03 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: GasHeart@AOL.COM Subject: Philly: Theater, Music, Film - Republican Convention Issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1. build puppets, with spiral q, 7/16-7/24, free 2. town meeting, at temple univ, thur., 7/20, 7pm, free 3. how to do a non-violence workshop, 10am-6pm, sat., 7/22, free 4. convergence - many workshops, teach-in, 10am-9am, 7/24-7/30, free 5. unity2000 march and rally - su., 7/30, 10:30-4pm, free 6. march for economic human rights, mon., 7/31, 11am, free 7. artparty , sat., aug. 5th, 7pm - 3am, at CEC, 3500 lancaster ave., $5 8. elephant art at DaVinchi gallery 9. Lost Film Fest 4 - an alternative convention 7/29-8/3=20 10. democracy Fest 2000, Sunday, July 23, 1:30-8:30, Liberty Lands Park 11. LAWN CHAIR DRIVE-IN SCHEDULE, Liberty Lands Park _____________________________________________________ 1. build puppets, with spiral q, 7/16-7/24, free jazz up your protest....... build puppets, banners, props,,,,daily workshops with experts, 3 slots a day= ,=20 9am - noon; 1:30-5:30; and 7pm-10pm,,,,at spiral q puppet theater, 1307=20 sansom st.,,,,reserve space by calling=20 mattyboy,,,,215-545-2127,,,spiralq@critpath.org ________________________________________ 2. town meeting, at temple univ, thur., 7/20, 7pm, free an evening of information and discussion, surrounding the issues of the=20 republican convention,,,,labor rights, the death penalty, the criminal=20 (in)justice system, AIDS funding, economic human rights, more...more info=20 call 215-978-4208 at 7pm, ritter hall auditorium, temple univ., 13th and montgomery st.,=20 phila., free _______________________________________________ 3. how to do a non-violence workshop, 10am-6pm, sat., 7/22, free a one-day workshop for new trainers who want to learn how to teach key=20 non-violence conceptsand experienced trainers who want a tune-up. Free breakfast at 10am, bring a bad lunch. for more info call Skylar at=20 Training for Change, 215-729-7458 sat., 7/22, 10am - 6pm at Friends Meeting House, 4th and Arch St., Phila. also at Friends Meeting House, 1501 cherry st., phila., on sun 7/23, 10am -=20 6pm; mon., 7/24, noon - 5pm; tues., 7/25, noon-5pm __________________________________________________ 4. convergence - many workshops, teach-in, 10am-9am, 7/24-7/30, free join us for free trainings in direct action, legal rights, street first aid,= =20 diversity, globalization for beginners. everyone welcome.=20 for info and locations,=20 Workshops will run July 24-30, from 9:30 a.m. to 9 p.m. daily. The main=20 workshop space will be the CEC, 3500 Lancaster Ave, in W Philadelphia. Maps= =20 at the CEC will direct you to the 5 or 6 other locations in the neighborhood= =20 where more workshops will be going on simultaneously. So drop by the CEC fo= r=20 the full poop! Hope to see you there... Skylar ---- Skylar Fein TRAINING FOR CHANGE 215-729-7458 skyfein@aol.com (info will also be available at the william way center, 1315 spruce st.) ______________________________________________ 5. unity2000 march and rally - sun., 7/30, 10:30-4pm, free march starts at 30th and jfk blvd., turns left on ben franklin parkway, ends= =20 with rally at art museum,,,,,a permitted rally expected to b e the largest=20 demonstration before the convention. rally includes dozens of speakers,=20 musicians, dancers, more.....see www./unity2000.com, or call 215-627-5007 also Billionaires for Bush or Gore will march as a contingent in the=20 unity2000 march.......meet at 30th and jfk at 9:30 am,,,,see =20 www.BillionairesForBushorGore.com ________________________________________________________ 6. march for economic human rights, Mon., 7/31, 11am, free gather at 11am, west side of city hall, march at noon poor and homeless people and their allies march to demand economic human=20 rights for all - the right to foor, housing, education, clothing, and health= =20 care,,,,,the city has refused top give a permit to march organizers; the=20 march will be an act of mass civil disobedience. come and show the=20 republicans that poor refuse to be disappeared in America! info,,,,Kensingto= n=20 Welfare Rights Union,,,,215-203-1945 www.kwru.org __________________________________________________ 7. artparty , sat., aug. 5th, 7pm - 3am, at CEC, 3500 lancaster ave., only$5 an after party for all the survivors of the rallies,,,,this event will show=20 any riot video available,,,,and have lots of bands, djs, performance art,=20 puppets, video art, film, paintings, photography.....and more! see www.groovelingo.com/artparty for a list of all the bands/dj=92s etc., w= ith=20 their links the first artparty was may 20th and had a really good vibe and was well=20 attended anyone with riot video, please contact me, josh, at 215-733-1010 or at=20 gasheart@aol.com,,,,,or gina at mistsojorn@aol.com,,,,,or trishy at=20 trishy@netreach.net ....here=92s more info ART PARTY SATURDAY AUGUST 5th at the C.E.C. Community Education Center 3500 Lancaster Avenue, Philadelphia, PA 7pm-2am, only$5, all ages, www.groovelingo.com/artparty E mail: gasheart@aol.com (josh), trishy@netreach.net, or mistsojorn@aol.com= =20 (gina) =20 A party for convention protesters & all arts enthusiasts! =20 in the variety room:=20 Lumpy Balboa Condition, unsound, Kabuki 5000, meisha (from pittsburgh),=20 Secession Movement, The Beach Balls, and Mall =20 Performance art by The Dancing Mermaids,=20 Performance art by The Great Quentini, puppets,=20 video from protests, slides, film shorts, poetry,=20 Paul Russo (of Dyke) unplugged, Annaliese Euler and more tba=20 =20 in the electronic room:=20 Laerm(DJ), Kneel, Thorn(DJ), Spintronic, Murcury(DJ), !Transient!,=20 Digita'lis/Phlox (from Oklahoma), Flashbulb (from Chicago),=20 And Lavender Hill Mob =20 +video and dancers(Gypsonic and Akida) +Ultra(DJ)in the downstairs lounge =20 exhibiting artists:=20 Tricia Gdowik, Steve Gdowik, Gina Renzi, Gypsonic,=20 Leslie Smith, Lowell Long, David Dworanczyk, =20 Jackie McAdams, !Transient! and others tba =20 directions: from center city.....go to 36th and market, turn right on 36th st., go to 3=20 blocks to lancaster ave, turn right, it is on your right by septa, take the market st. subway to 34th st. exit, go north on 34th st.=20 towards arch, turn left on lancaster ave., it's on your left (anyone with riot video, contact josh, gasheart@aol.com, 215-733-1010) __________________________________________________ 8. elephant art at DaVinchi gallery ELEPHANT ART an exhibition of all media/all elephants July 2- 30th, 2000 Closing reception: Sunday, July 30th 2-7p.m Gallery hours for month of July: Wednesdays: 6-9p.m, Saturdays and Sundays 2-5p.m DaVinci Art Alliance 704 Catharine Street Philadelphia, PA 19147 (215)829-0466 www.angelfire.com/ok3/davinci ______________________________________________ 9. Lost Film Fest 4 - an alternative convention 7/29-8/3=20 a =93do it yourself=94 film festival, at Plays and Players1714 delancy st. (= near=20 17th and locust st.) philadelphia, pa....every evening of the convention,=20 many people will congregate there more info at www.lostfilmfest.com (website weak at this point -josh) look for guide/booklet at xando and other free paper locations ______________________________________________ 10. democracy Fest 2000, Sunday, July 23, 1:30-8:30, Liberty Lands Park Celebrate the movement for real democracy a day-long rock concert featuring Philly-area bands: Catfish Brown Electric Jellyfish Soul Food Triplets and more Sunday, July 23, 1:30-8:30 Liberty Lands Community Park 3rd St. just above Poplar, Philadelphia recommended donation: $10 for info, call (215)351-0151 Proceeds benefit Unity 2000 and Greater Philadelphia DSA Sponsored by Greater Philadelphia Democratic Socialists of America ____________________________________________ 11. LAWN CHAIR DRIVE-IN SCHEDULE, Liberty Lands Park PRESS RELEASE... FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE... =20 ................................THE LAWN CHAIR DRIVE-IN SUMMER SCHEDULE........... Hello! THE LAWN CHAIR DRIVE-IN runs all summer long, every Wednesday evening at dusk, in the Liberty Lands Park. The park is located along 3rd Street, north of Poplar Street, in the Northern Liberties Section of Philadelphia.=20 It has always been and will always be absolutely free. Come alone or bring friends, picnic beforehand if you like, it is a pizza-and-beer-meet-your-neighbors kinda thing. THE LAWN CHAIR DRIVE-IN is now officially a Northern Liberties Arts Association event, with a little bump from the Northern Liberties Neighbors Association. =20 LAWN CHAIR DRIVE-IN SCHEDULE July 19 DAVID AND LISA 1963 Kier Dullea and Janet Margolin play very disturbed teens who discover each other and the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Great film. Bad dreams. Cool score. July 26 CHARLIE CHAN AT TREASURE ISLAND 1939 When was the last time you surrendered to the delightful hokeyness of CHARLIE CHAN? This is one of the best of the series. August 2 SMASHING TIME 1967 Rita Tushingham and Lynn Redgrave meet Austin Powers' kooky friends on Carnaby Street, the original boulevard of shagadelic dreams. August 9 WILD BOYS OF THE ROAD 1933 William Wellman directed Frankie Darro and friends, struggling under the thumb of the Great Depression. Hey... a boys gotta do what a boys gotta do... go wild! August 16 5 CAME BACK 1939 A DC-3 airliner crashes in the Amazon jungle. Only five make it out alive.=20 Will Lucille Ball or John Carradine or C. Aubrey Smith be among the survivors? Place bets between reels. August 23 THE LITTLE GIANT 1933 Edward G. Robinson spoofs his LITTLE CEASAR persona in this terriffic little comedy about a gangster crashing high society. August 30 THE WORLD OF HENRY ORIENT 1964 Two teenage girls stalk avant garde pianist Peter Sellers around New York in= =20 this delightfully subtle coming-of-age comedy. A personal fave! September 6 WILD CARD FINALE! This is as much a groove soiree as a film showing, so come early and bring all your friends and neighbors. A fine finish to another great summer season of free films in Liberty Lands Park. For more information, contact Todd Kimmell, 215 925 2568 tincanners@aol.com _______________________________________________________ well that=92s what i hear is happening,,,,=94coverage=94 will be on kyw, cha= nnel 3=20 during the republican convention, which is 7/29-8/4. also there is a group=20 called PDAG, phila. direct action group that will be vocal but peaceful ,,,=20 P-Dag, =93a new, independent, consensus driven non-profit organization which= =20 has convened to coordinate and support actions during the Republican=20 Convention=94 P-DAG, POB 40683, Phila., PA, 19107-0683, send tax deductible $ to them if=20 you want.....helps pay for workshops, etc. there will be a lot of people here from out of town, who need a place to=20 sleep, on floors in sleeping bags, your home, a church, your backyard, no need to feed them, please contact Phila. Direct Action Group : Attn: Housing Coordinators po box 40683 phila., pa 19107-0683 215-574-7883 P-DAG meetings are every wed. at 6:30 at WILPF, 1213 Race St. www.thepartysover.org other websites to check out www.r2kphilly.com......with a calendar there at=20 http://www.r2kphilly.org/calendarframe.html www.unity2000.com www.groovelingo.com/artparty independent media center http://www.phillyimc.org/ latest news there,=20 updated a lot during protests i just read that the william way center (gay/lesbian center), at 1315 spruce= =20 is where to go first.....there will be info there on where to go to=20 workshops, places to sleep, sign up to volunteer there, R2k central info are= a=20 , P-DAG here is an article from the inquirer from july 9th: From the front page of today's (7/9/00) Philadelphia Inquirer =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D An army of protesters prepares to greet GOP=20 By Thomas Ginsberg INQUIRER STAFF WRITER=20 Three weeks before Republicans hold their national convention, it appears th= e=20 number of protesters gathering in Philadelphia could rival the 30,000=20 delegates and party members attending the convention itself. There will be fundamentalists and anarchists, gun lovers and gun haters,=20 activists on both sides of the abortion divide, and those who think large=20 corporations control too much of their lives. "We . . . are challenging the whole electoral process, both Republicans and=20 Democrats, the way the system works and doesn't represent people but=20 corporations," said Terrence McGuckin, a member of the Philadelphia Direct=20 Action Group, a civil disobedience network formed for the convention. Most activists say they intend to be peaceful, but some pledge action that=20 could disrupt the city by blockading traffic, or upstage the convention by=20 blocking delegates. There seems little doubt that the mere presence of so many diverse=20 demonstrators, operating peacefully but unpredictably, will create edginess=20 and tension in the city. A full day, Aug. 1, likely will be dedicated to protests and undisclosed act= s=20 of civil disobedience in support of Mumia Abu-Jamal, who is on death row fo= r=20 killing Philadelphia Police Officer Daniel Faulkner in 1981. "We're not her= e=20 to disrupt," said Pam Africa, a leading Abu-Jamal advocate. Police Commissioner John F. Timoney said he was confident police can maintai= n=20 order with large numbers of officers in vehicles and on the street, in =20 plainclothes and in uniform. Mobile units will be moved to trouble spots as=20= =20 needed.=20 All recent presidential conventions have drawn some protests, but this year,= =20 with activists energized by the protests in Seattle during the World Trade=20 Organization meeting in November, many more groups intend to demonstrate at=20= =20 both political conventions. They say they will be chanting, marching, even mud-wrestling to get=20 attention, some using puppets, floats and, in one case, 60,000 shoes to make= =20 their points. There will be people targeting the Republicans directly (on abortion rights)= =20 and others who just want attention from the 15,000 journalists. Some angry Democrats from Camden say they will use the occasion to picket=20 Republican New Jersey Gov. Whitman.=20 For the anti-corporate crowd, campaign finance and the role of big donors in= =20 the political process will be among their main issues. Some say they will=20 attempt nonviolent but disruptive actions to make their points. One direct-action protest organizer, who spoke on condition of anonymity,=20 said the surprise efforts may include protesters chaining themselves to=20 shuttle buses, unfurling banners from high-rises, or mounting impromptu=20 blockades of delegates' hotels - a protest plan that they expect will lead t= o=20 a cat-and-mouse game with police and lots of arrests. Timoney has asserted that the department will do whatever it takes to=20 maintain order, but he expressed hope that it can be done without violence.=20 Tear gas and clubs to quell demonstrations are "last resorts," he said. Even if there is no violence, some demonstrators are almost certain to be=20 arrested, and arrangements have been made for cells to detain them. The police and demonstrators have spent months planning how to outsmart each= =20 other. Activists are assembling medical teams, bringing in food trucks, and=20 scouting out dozens of buildings or vacant sites where they can sleep and=20 prepare their protests without being stopped by police. Protesters with all kinds of causes will find a forum at the largest=20 scheduled rally, called Unity 2000, on July 30, the eve of the convention, o= n=20 the Benjamin Franklin Parkway. Its organizers have quietly urged radical =20 protesters to take a break from direct action, letting Unity 2000 concentrat= e=20 on its peaceful gathering of scores of "progressive" groups, ranging from th= e=20 AFL-CIO and the NAACP, to the National Organization for Women and the HIV=20 activist group ACTUP. The mass rally will feature an 80-foot-long float called the "Corpazilla,"=20 which will include a wrestling ring filled with mud and grapplers dressed as= ,=20 of course, Vice President Gore and Texas Gov. George W. Bush. Another contingent may be dressed as an "army of cockroaches," said Matthew=20 Hart, an activist and founder of the Spiral Q puppet studio in Philadelphia.= =20 He said cockroaches symbolize the great unwanted disposable masses getting=20 stepped on by the powerful. Unity 2000 will have a South Jersey contingent, which wants to march across=20 the Ben Franklin Bridge on Sunday - on the sidewalks, without blocking=20 traffic - to raise its voice on campaign finance, suburban sprawl and=20 homelessness. Welfare, housing and the plight of the homeless will be the focus of a week=20 of events staged around the city by the Kensington Welfare Rights Union. The= =20 group intends to build a tent city called "Bushville" on July 27 for homeles= s=20 protesters. The group's founder, Cheri Honkala, declined to say where Bushville will be,= =20 saying she feared police would move to block it. But she said it would be=20 populated by up to 1,000 people "who used to be homeless, are homeless, or=20 will be homeless." Honkala said the group also intends to take visiting journalists on a bus=20 tour of Philadelphia's most run-down neighborhoods, "what we call the realit= y=20 of Philadelphia."=20 Honkala said her group's efforts would culminate with an attempt to block=20 midday traffic in Center City on July 31 with a march down Broad Street from= =20 City Hall to the First Union Center, site of the convention. "This is by far the most insane, and definitely the biggest, thing we've=20 done," said Honkala, a veteran of many protests, who added that the=20 protesters are prepared to be arrested. Scattered around the city during the week, groups sparring over abortion=20 rights will host their own events, working against one another. "Generation Life," an activist crusade led by the Pro- Life Union of=20 Southeast Pennsylvania, hopes to bring several thousand students and young=20 protesters to Philadelphia for conferences, prayer vigils at abortion=20 clinics, and a rock concert in the days before the convention. "The theory is try to get younger people involved in leadership roles," said= =20 Mike McMonagle, an antiabortion organizer. In reaction, abortion-rights groups say they plan a rally of their own on=20 July 30 and will station activists through the week at Planned Parenthood=20 clinics in Philadelphia and West Chester, to act as "escorts" for women=20 entering or exiting. A group called the Silent March, which advocates strict gun controls, said i= t=20 expects to display 30,000 pairs of shoes at the Liberty Bell on July 29 and=20 30, symbolically representing the number of people it says are killed with=20 guns each year. The Second Amendment Sisters, a group of women dedicated to protecting the=20 right to bear arms, have applied for a permit for a counter-rally.=20 The Liberty Bell may be the most peaceful and most intriguing protest spot.=20= A=20 group called the Oral Majority, initially founded to advocate gay rights,=20 will set up there all week to showcase its new cause: lifting the sanctions=20 against Cuba and reforming immigration laws, organizer Robert Kunst said. Then there is the designated protest zone near the First Union Center. About= =20 20 groups have applied so far to get one of the 64 time slots - lasting 50=20 minutes each - available during the four-day convention. The groups range=20 from Virginians for Immigration Control, to the vegetarian group Kicking Cow= s. ______________________________________________________ update from the Philadelphia Direct Action Group from: rolando de aguiar rolando@iname.com http://www.thepartysover.org CONVERGENCE, WHICH ALMOST RHYMES WITH ORANGE -------------------------------------------- July 24-30 Philadelphia Direct Action Group invites you to Philly for 7 days of workshops, teach-ins, love-ins, direct action trainings, eating and creative loafing on the eve of the Republican National Convention. PDAG will offer workshops throughout the day and throughout the city on dozens of topics, including... * Direct action prep * Legal rights * Front line media * Street first aid * Medic and CPR training * Self-defense for women * Puppet building * Blockades * Classism * Campaign strategy * Creative direct action * Globalization for beginners And come for teach-ins on zillions of topics, including... * The case of Mumia Abu Jamal * The Zapatista uprising in Mexico * The racial wealth gap * Radical labor organizing * Political prisoners in the US and around the world * Colombia, today's dirty war For information on workshops, contact the PDAG Training Working Group (Skylar Fein, Training for Change, 215-729-7458, skyfein@aol.com). --------------------------------------------------------------- Workshops will run July 24-30, from 9:30 a.m. to 9 p.m. daily. The main=20 workshop space will be the CEC, 3500 Lancaster Ave, in W Philadelphia. Maps= =20 at the CEC will direct you to the 5 or 6 other locations in the neighborhood= =20 where more workshops will be going on simultaneously. So drop by the CEC fo= r=20 the full poop! Hope to see you there... Skylar ---- Skylar Fein TRAINING FOR CHANGE 215-729-7458 skyfein@aol.com A PLACE TO STAY IS A-OK! ------------------------ Let's say you have a four bedroom house in Center City with more room than a= n=20 average Boeing vehicle assembly building. Or, perhaps, you live in a 200-square foot room in South Philly. Either way, some dedicated activist from out yonder wants to crash on your floor. We still need lots of housing space. If you do anything positive for the movement this weekend, let it be this: contact Nicole at nicolemeyenberg@aol.com about giving up some privacy= =20 in the name of toppling the status quo. THE MEDICAL AIN'T HYPOTHETICAL ------------------------------ The PDAG medical working group is looking for medics to staff direct action=20 during the RNC. This is an extremely important position, ripe with responsibility! If you are a medic, or know anyone with medical training, please contact Dave at epicac@gateway.net. Do not delay. Do not pass go. ___________________________________________________ that=92s all for now (each item above was gleaned from various press releases or email=20 newsletters, and are meant for wide distribution). -josh gasheart@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 11:41:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Balestrieri, Peter" Subject: For Tony G and George B: Frim Fram Sauce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Tony and George, Here's something I found on the Web that might help. It's copies of both Diane and Nat's versions with a touch of explanation. What we really need is a recipe! Regards, Pete Balestrieri ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:51:20 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kathylou@ATT.NET Subject: Re: bibliofind Glad to share the love! The book I ordered only cost me 9 bucks including postage -- well worth it after searching for months. After 20 years you DESERVE that book! Best, Kathy Lou ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:06:19 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kathylou@ATT.NET Subject: Re: bibliofind (fwd) Moderator of Loveliness -- This was a personal message. Please don't post to the list. My BAD! Sorry! Kathy Lou ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: kathylou@att.net To: UB Poetics discussion group Subject: RE: bibliofind Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:51:20 +0000 Glad to share the love! The book I ordered only cost me 9 bucks including postage -- well worth it after searching for months. After 20 years you DESERVE that book! Best, Kathy Lou ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:38:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: New Poem for your summer reading pleasure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This came to the administrative account. - TS --On Friday, July 21, 2000, 2:38 PM +0000 harris4@idt.net wrote: > Tale of Two Cities > > > > In this tale of two cities > continuity is secondary > > each continuum forgets the other > > it=92s home and home > > there=92s no away > > remembering old pieces > on cusp of new life > > brilliant sun out of Denver > towards Boulder > in a slick car > in a slick life > with real tears > no lie > > heart jumps > on hilltop > above valley > where home is > > My home > > personal > > beautiful in grand rocks > shadow of > distant youth=92s > completion > > > my pain is huge > disproportionately larger than life > inexplicably severe > > but whatever you do > don=92t read the manual > > 8am > overbright sun > DeNiro=92s driving everywhere > > but no movie > > two million a day > shamed and diminished by cattle car subway ride > > from the plane to the train > > vehicles of privilege > > vehicles of despair > > execution in the workchair > > groping for gratitude in > painful dual citizenship > > run interference with headphones > > hair? > > life? > > I=92m hardly the only pissed off person in this town > > watch step > watch mouth > > > > > Colorado tee shirt freeway cloverleaf > new grass winter > weather > > self-conscious > resentful > rolling > > junkyard landscape > could be anywhere > not tho > > nowhere > > glaciers over truckstop equals > advertising > > spoiled brat american > > airport patron > customer > litterbug > user > > in transit > > was smart > am tired > will rest > might live > > high tension > cloud wire > > snow peak > rivulet > > generic skyline > generic outskirts > generic runoff > > oil refinery heavy metal graveyard > transformer storage toxic waste > disposal and recycling > > might live > > sunrise tomorrow > six am > > I love your area code > > it=92s sexy > > turns me on > > > twisterish clouds touch down on distant plain with grey rain > grey planes lined up > to lift into afternoon > and night > > > I like her size > it fits my hands > my hips > > I like her sighs > they soothe my ears > excite my lips > > > sudden spring rain > whips across runways > > tumbleweed > rumbles past jets > > all the planes on hold > all the plans on hold > > march 5th > of the dubiously numbered year 2000 > > I am a fractured > broken thing > yet > thrive > > > Harris Schiff > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent through IDT. > http://www.idt.net/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:44:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Scrittura e nuove scienze MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message came to the administrative account. - TS --On Saturday, July 22, 2000, 2:31 PM +0200 "Caterina Davinio" wrote: > Segnalazione: KARENINA.IT Experimental > http://www.davinio.web.com > > > Scrittura e nuove scienze: i paradossi della scienza e la poesia come > paradosso. Di Gio Ferri > > L'ultimo numero di TESTUALE, a cura di Gio Ferri, Gilberto Finzi, = Giuliano > Gramigna > > Esperimenti e contaminazioni: l'incontro fra letteratura, arte e poesia = e le > nuove tecnologie. Intervista a Caterina Davinio su Doll's, il sito delle > donne on line > > Tommaso Tozzi: L'ARTISTA COME MEDIA - ARTE COME TRASFERIMENTO DI RISORSE > > Art forum berlin 2000, an exciting overview of current positions in the > international world of contemporary art. 27 September to 1 October, 2000.145 > galleries from 23 countries > > Franco Berardi e Matteo Pasquinelli preparano un nuovo sito, un forum di > discussione, e una conferenza che si terra' a Bologna a settembre, nel > periodo in cui in tutta Europa il movimento globale si preparera' all'azione > di Praga, contro il Fondo monetario internazionale e la World Bank. > L'iniziativa si chiama REKOMBINANT. > > Artists Talk: Issues facing Australian artists is a new publication, > compiled by Melbourne's West Space gallery, which gives voice to the > concerns facing contemporary artists. > > Tutte le novit=E0 segnalateci da Rubicondor on line a cura di Silvia Tessitore > > Firenze Esterno Notte - un network internazionale di > filmakers e autori riuniti per conservare e promuovere la bellezza dei > piccoli formati cinematografici > > La fanzine CUT UP cresce e diventa magazine con un nuovo impianto > tipografico. Recensioni, riflessioni e interviste. Un punto di = riferimento > tra gli addetti ai lavori. > > BOLLETTARIO N=B0 30 - FAVOLE KURDE: - Favola Kurda - Giorgio Barberi > Squarotti - Enrico Bay - e altro > > Features. La nuova rubrica di critica d'arte di UnDo.Net Teorici > internazionali, curatori e corrispondenti da varie citta' del mondo > collaborano con UnDo.Net e pubblicano i loro articoli: punti > di vista, ricognizioni, interviste... > > > > And more... > KARENINA.IT Experimental > http://www.davinio.web.com > > -- > Art Electronics - Archives / Videotheque / Rome / Milan > Art Electronics and Other Writings > http://space.tin.it/arte/cprezi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:09:24 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jill giegerich Subject: art exhibition Comments: To: petr_maule@siegereng.com, pgjacobsen@worldnet.att.net, phil.tougher@nessie.mcc.ac.uk, Picnicwish@aol.com, pierr@leland.stanford.edu, piertrust@btinternet.com, piggforg@ere.umontreal.ca, pittysing15@hotmail.com, PKG3@yahoo.com, pkmurray@sirius.com, pkowalke@mail.com, plasmalady@aol.com, pliska@haas.berkeley.edu, PLURALZ@aol.com, pny33@hotmail.com, poemz@mars.ark.com, potajemusic@yahoo.com, POETMUSE@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi all, Artists Lisa Adams and Jill Giegerich have formed a collaborative artmaking team called the apocalypse twins. Check out our website at www.apocalypsetwins.com. Our first project is called I AM UNARMED. This is a T-shirt designed to raise funds for the upcoming protests at the Democratic Convention this August in Los Angeles. If you would like to know more about these protests go to www.D2KLA.ORG. You may take a look at and order our T-shirts from our website. We have also created an installation for a group exhibition at the Patricia Correia gallery in Santa Monica, California. The installation is entitled "Here is Something Strange". The exhibition is called "A Collaboration". The address is 2525 Michigan Ave., #E-2 (at Bergamot Station) in Santa Monica. The artists' reception is Sat. July 29 from 5 - 8 PM. The show runs from July 29 - August 30. -Jill Giegerich ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:29:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: john beer Subject: Re: Pittsburgh info wanted--readings & bookstores MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Back when I lived in Pittsburgh (almost ten years ago now) the best person to see re the Pgh poetry scene was this cat Richard Dillon. Former secretary for Burroughs, tireless promoter of others' poetry (as well as his own), organizer of readings by locals and national figures, and beat gnosis repository haunting the bookstores and bars of the south side. Whether that's still true, I can't say. I'd tell you to go to Chief's Cafe, too, but Tony the bouncer's dead now..altogether a different city. Best, John Beer --- "Michael G. Salinger" wrote: > Check out Sun Crumbs. They are a poetry presenting > organization. > http://www.suncrumbs.org > > Also, the Beehive is a pretty hep coffee shop where > you may find out more about > the poetry scene in pitt. > > m. salinger > > David Kirschenbaum wrote: > > > Hi listmates, > > > > I'm headed to Pittsburgh in 10 days and wonder if > anyone knows about > > readings and/or bookstores in the area. If so, > could you please backchannel > > it to me at this e-dress. > > > > Thanks, > > > > David Kirschenbaum > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Say Bye to Slow Internet! > > http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:33:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: john beer Subject: John Landry contact info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone have contact info for John Landry? If so, please backchannel. Thanks much, John Beer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 01:51:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cynthia Kane Tedesco Subject: Fwd: FW: Gore and Bush Make Me Want To Ralph - by Michael Moore MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_44.5b58600.26abe1d6_boundary" --part1_44.5b58600.26abe1d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_44.5b58600.26abe1d6_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (rly-yd02.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.2]) by air-yd01.mail.aol.com (v75_b1.4) with ESMTP; Sat, 22 Jul 2000 19:41:17 -0400 Received: from mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.47]) by rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (v75.18) with ESMTP; Sat, 22 Jul 2000 19:40:58 -0400 Received: from [12.79.13.230] by mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000722234053.EFXT6710.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@[12.79.13.230]>; Sat, 22 Jul 2000 23:40:53 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 19:42:05 -0400 Subject: FW: Gore and Bush Make Me Want To Ralph - by Michael Moore From: Joshua Skolnick Message-Id: <20000722234053.EFXT6710.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@[12.79.13.230]> To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: Unknown Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-INFO: INVALID TO LINE >, Alex Kaufmann , Bob Stein , Sue and Ed Skolnick , Andy Stein , Tony Daddiego , Carol Francis , Marianne Fritz , Nancy Lawson-Beech , Gary and Andrea Levine , "S.Warren Levine" , Linda Lowell , Brian Nowack , Rachel and Craig Piven-Kehrle , Jack Rush , Jeff Segall , Ev and Jenn Sussman , Jennifer Sussman , Louis Taxin , Cynthia Tedesco Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20000722184924.25891.qmail@web2005.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Bush and Gore Make Me Wanna Ralph > A Letter from Michael Moore to the > Non-Voters of America > > Dear friends, > > DISCLAIMER: If you are planning to vote for Al > Gore in November, good > for you. Don't let what I'm about to say change > your mind because I've > been told by all the experts that if you do > change your mind based on > what I'm about to say, George W. Bush might win > the election and I > certainly couldn't live with myself if that > connoisseur of > pharmaceuticals (the kind you snort up your > nose or the kind you inject > on death row) won, in part, because of a letter > I spit out over the > Internet. > > So let's review -- you like Gore, you vote for > Gore. He's a decent guy. > I met him last year at some benefit, he came up > to me, big hug -- whoa, > this veep is no stiff, I thought -- and thanked > me for this and that. He > even quoted lines from "The Awful Truth" - > whoa, scary, I thought, > what's he doing watching cable channels above > 40 on the box...not much > to do on this veep gig, eh? > > I told him I admired what he did when he came > home to America as a > Vietnam Vet and spoke out against the war. That > took a lot of courage, I > said (his dad lost his Senate seat for being an > early opponent of the > war). > > So, if Al Gore is your man, go for it. In fact, > I insist on it, even if > you are just throwing your vote away. > > What I am about to say, though, is not intended > for any Al Gore (or > George W.) voters. If you are one, please click > off now. > > > > To Whom It May Concern: > > I address this letter to the largest political > party in the United > States - the 55% of you in the voting public > who are so disillusioned > with politics and politicians, so sick and > tired of all the broken > promises, so disgusted with all the b.s. that > you have absolutely no > intention of voting in November. > > You know who you are. > > AND YOU ARE THE MAJORITY! > > You rule. You are the Non-Voters, all 100 > million of you! > > Until now, you have been the subject of scorn > and ridicule. You've been > called apathetic, lazy, ignorant. Your actions > have been viewed as > unAmerican (I mean, what kind of citizen in the > World's Greatest > Democracy would not exercise his or her most > important and cherished > right - the right to freely choose your > leader!). > > Well, may I be the first to tell you that, not > only are you NOT stupid > and apathetic, I believe you are smarter than > all the rest of us > combined. YOU figured it out. YOU uncovered the > scam. And YOU had the > guts to no longer participate in a lie. Way to > go! In 1996, you helped > set the all-time American record for lowest > turnout ever at a > presidential election. > > The reason you, the majority, no longer vote in > America is because you, > the majority, realize there is no real choice > on the ballot. The "two" > parties both do the bidding of the wealthy and > agree with each other on > 90% of the issues. They take 90% of their money > from people who make > over a hundred-grand a year, and then enact > over 90% of the laws those > contributors want passed. > > On the ballot this November, you already know > there is no contest. The > independent Cook Political Report in D.C. last > week announced that, out > of 435 House seats up for election in November, > there are only 47 seats > where there is a "true race" between opponents > - and, of those, only 14 > seats have a race that is even "close" between > the two candidates. 14 > out of 435! > > "Ninety-seven to ninety-nine percent of > incumbents running for > re-election will be returned to Congress in > November," according to the > Cook Report. > > The Non-Voters already understand this. And > they are not going to waste > one iota of their day on November 7 driving to > some smelly elementary > school gymnasium to participate in a > Soviet-style election with no > friggin' choice on the ballot. > > So, to you brave voter-resisters, I say > congratulations on your act of > civic disobedience! I joined you this primary > season and refused to go > along with this charade of "choice." Nearly 80% > of those of us of voting > age - over 160 million Americans - staged a > sit-in on our living room > couches during this year's primaries. THAT is > the great untold story of > this election year. How much longer will the > punditocracy be able to get > away with dismissing this massive no-show as "a > sign Americans are > content with the booming economy?" > > Now that we have made our presence known (you > all don't mind me speaking > for us, do you? Good. In fact, I'll just assume > the currently-vacant > mantle of this majority party and serve as your > leader until you say > otherwise...), it is time to find a way that > says, loudly and clearly, > just how mad as hell we are and how we are not > going to take it anymore. > We need to find a way where our vote screams > "None of the Above!" A > chance to act, like that Chinese guy in > Tieneman Square, standing in > front of a moving tank and stopping it in its > path. > > In November, we should find a way to follow in > the footsteps of those > intelligent Minnesotans who, even thought they > could care less about > professional wrestling (and even less, I'm > sure, for Jesse "The Body"), > proved to the world that they not only have a > sense of humor, but they > know how to stick it to the whole bloody > system. Think of just how high > their level of anger must have been against the > One-Party-With-Two-Heads > monopoly! I mean, state government is no joke - > somebody's gotta build > the roads, run the schools, catch the > criminals. You don't want to turn > the asylum over to the chief lunatic but, damn > it, that's what the > people of Minnesota did - just to send a > message! > > Wow. That took some guts. > > So, for those of you who weren't going to vote > anyway, well...what if > you actually did? What if you drove down to > that stinky gym where the > little shell game behind the pretend curtains > is taking place ("Pay no > attention to the voters behind the curtains!"), > walk in, sign in, take > the ballot they hand you, and toss yourselves > inside the booth like a > political molotov cocktail. > > Boom! > > "You wanna tell me there's a choice here > between two guys who both > support NAFTA, WTO, the death penalty, the > Cuban embargo, increased > Pentagon spending, sleazy HMOs, greedy hospital > chains, 250 million guns > in our homes, more bombing of Iraq, the rich > getting richer and the rest > of us declaring bankruptcy?" > > Boom! > > Not me. > > Boom! > > I'm voting for Ralph Nader. > > KAAAABOOM! > > Friends, we are losing our democratic control > over our country. We may > have already lost it. I hope not. But in the > last 20 years of the Reagan > administration, Corporate America has merged > and morphed itself to such > an extent that just a handful of companies now > call all the shots. They > own Congress. They own us. In order to work for > them, we have to take > urine tests and lie detectors and wear bar > codes on chains around our > necks. In order to keep our jobs we have had to > give up decent health > care, the 8-hour day (and time with our kids), > the security that we'll > even have a job next year, and any > unwillingness we may have to compete > with a 14-year old Indonesian girl who gets a > dollar a day. > > And how frightening (and great) is it that the > last place we can freely > try to inform and communicate with each other > is on this very Web? Six > companies run by six men control the majority > of the news we now get > from newspapers, television, radio and the > Internet. One out of every > two books is bought at a bookstore owned by one > of only two companies. > Is it safe in a "free society" to have the > sources of our information > and mass communication in the hands of just a > few wealthy men who have a > VESTED interest in keeping us as stupid as > possible - or at least in > keeping us thinking like them so that we vote > for THEIR candidates? > > I fear the cement on this new oligarchy of > power is quickly drying, and > when it is finished hardening, we are finished. > The democracy, the one > that's supposed to be of, by, and for the > people, will cease to exist. > > We must not let this happen, no matter how > cynical and disgusted we've > become at the whole electoral process. > > Ralph Nader, to me, represents a chance for us > to at least temporarily > stop the cement from drying. We need him in > there kicking things up, > stirring the pot and forcing a real debate > about the issues. Whether > it's Ralph as Candidate or Ralph as President, > he may represent our last > hope to get our country back from the clutches > of the powerful few. > > I am not writing these words lightly. I am > hoping to sound a siren and > rally the majority who, for good reason, have > given up - but might just > have it in them to find the will for one last > fight against the > bastards. > > Can Ralph win? Well, stranger things have > happened in the past decade. > C'mon, think about it, not a single one of us > ever thought we'd see the > Berlin Wall come down or Nelson Mandela as > President of South Africa. > After those two things happened, I joined a new > school of thought that > said ANYTHING was possible. Jesse Ventura > started with 3% in the polls > and won. Ross Perot in '92 started with 6% and, > after proving to > everyone that he was certifiably insane, still > got nearly 20% of the > vote. > > Ralph already has between 7% and 10% in the > polls - before he's done any > serious campaigning. He's gone from 3% to 8% in > my home state of > Michigan. These are amazing numbers and the > pundits and lobbyists and > Republicrats are running scared. Hey, you like > to watch scared > Republicrats running? Tell a pollster you're > voting for Ralph. > > Now, look, before you all send me a lot of mail > about how weird Ralph is > 'cause he doesn't own a car or is a "sell-out" > 'cause he's got a few > million dollars, let me say this: I used to > work out of his office, and > Ralph is definitely one of a kind. In a future > letter I will write of > those experiences but, for now, let's just > agree that Ralph is at least > half as crazy as Jesse Ventura - and about a > hundred times as smart. I'd > say he's also saved about a million or so > lives, thanks to the consumer > and environmental legislation he has devoted > his life to. > > And between Gore, Bush, and himself, he's the > only person running who > would guarantee universal health care for all, > the only candidate who > would raise the minimum wage to a decent level, > the only one who would > get up each morning asking himself the > question, "What can I do today to > serve all the people of this country?" > > The list goes on and on. You can read more > about what Ralph stands for > by going to his website > (http://www.votenader.org). You'll agree, I'm > sure, there's lots of common sense there, > regardless of what political > stripe you are. > > But remember. If you are even THINKING of > voting for Al Gore, vote for > Al Gore. Ralph Nader does not need a single > Gore vote. There are a > hundred million of us out there who are > uncommitted and currently not > voting. Right now, Gore and Bush are each > hoping to win by getting only > 40 million votes. > > If you are in the Non-Voting majority and want > to let 'em all have it, > if you want to get our country back in our > hands...well, if even half of > you show up and vote November 7 then you won't > be held responsible for > Bush winning the White House. > > In fact, you won't be held responsible for > putting Gore in the White > House, either. > > Rather, you will have made history by putting a > true American hero at > 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. > > And you will have given every company, every > boss who's done ya wrong, > the worst nightmare of their lives. > > November 7. Payback Time. > > The revenge of the Non-Voters! > > So sayeth their unappointed leader, > yours truly, > Michael Moore > mmflint@aol.com > http://www.theawfultruth.com > http://www.michaelmoore.com > > PS. Come to think of it, Democrats should be on > their knees thanking > Ralph for running. Rather than taking votes > from Gore, Ralph's going to > be the one responsible for turning the House > back over to the Democrats. > > When millions of these Non-Voters enter that > booth to vote for Ralph, > and they come across their local race for > Congress, they will find no > Green Party candidate in most of the 435 > Congressional districts. So who > do you think Ralph's army of Non-Voters will > plunk down for Congress? > The Republican? I don't think so. > > The Democrats are only six seats short of > regaining control of the > House. Ralph Nader will be the reason the > Democrats get the House back > for the first time since Newt's Contract on > America in 1994. > > Democrats should send their checks to > Nader 2000, P.O. Box 18002, > Washington, DC 20035. > > (Or, better yet, let's try to elect enough > Greens to Congress -- a dozen > or so -- and they'll hold the deciding votes > because neither the > Democrats nor the Republicans will have the > majority. It'll be a > friggin' Knesset!) > > PPS. If you're still worried this letter might > convince a weak-kneed > Gore voter to flip over to Nader - and thus > lead to President George W. > stacking the Supreme Court to make abortion > illegal, well, it's all a > bunch of hooey. Please read my latest > grassroots.com column entitled, "I > Ain't Fallin for That One Again" at: > http://www.michaelmoore.com/aint.html > > PPPS. Tonight, Wednesday July 19, on "The Awful > Truth" (Bravo, 10 p.m. > ET/PT), Crackers the Corporate Crime Fighting > Chicken makes a surprise > return visit. Don't miss it! > > > PLEASE PASS THIS LETTER ON TO YOUR FRIENDS AND > FAMILY. > PERMISSION IS GRANTED TO REPRINT ANYWHERE. ===== There can be no daily democracy without daily citizenship. -Ralph Nader http://votenader.org There are only five great men in the world and three of them are hamburgers. -Captain Beefheart __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail ? Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --part1_44.5b58600.26abe1d6_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:29:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: endNOTE #2 - call for work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit created with TISH, Philly Talks, and the 1st series of Open Letter in mind, endNOTE promotes open communication between poets. endNOTE welcomes submissions of poetry, short essays, statements, rants, open letters, eactions, comments, reviews, questions and critiques - and once again endNOTE is looking for work for our 2nd issue. we also welcome reactions and critiques of our first issue and the work found inside its pages. if you are interested in contributing work our deadline is august 15th please contact russ rickey, tom muir and derek beaulieu (endnote) at: endnote@canada.com or emndnote #15, 101a - 601 17th ave sw calgary ab canada t2s 0b3 if you have any questions or if you would like to conctribute work. thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 01:47:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cynthia Kane Tedesco Subject: MICHAEL MOORE AND RALPH NADER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DEAR LISTSERV.READERS: I have been so disgusted w/politics until this past half hour when I received an e-mail that just made me ever so slightly hopeful for this next Presidential Campaign. Please go to the following web sites for information on the Nader 2000 For President issues no matter what your political world view is ... you will at least be informed that we just may have a REAL choice this time round ... just maybe ... http://www.michaelmoore.com/aint.html and ... Ralph Nader http://votenader.org All Good Things, Cynthia Tedesco ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 02:02:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Content? Comments: To: Thomas Bell In-Reply-To: <397A854E.5338684F@home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Of course this is of the greatest difficulty; I am often aware of a cer- tain condensation and intensity that occurs in these gatherings (the ones I can afford or the ones that can afford me) - that the nodes that develop are oddly unique in the universe - that there is no return, no recupera- tion. At the Incubation conf. I took a number of digital photographs; we all - there - breathed English (Midlands) air, for a moment together - DNA minglings - then nothing - absence - I've got these digital imaginaries - a kind of resonance. In an odd way this can be considered a type of illness that appears - immune to antibotics - Alan Internet Text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 13:12:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: In defense of Doug/ Baraka/Barthes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In response to my defense of him, I received a direct reply to my comments=20 from Doug. I would like to post his response and my second response to him i= n=20 the list because I think Doug contributed significantly to the present=20 exchange of ideas. Since his letter includes separate responses to my=20 Shakespeare and Orono comments, I grouped them separately: "Thank you Murat for your well considered defence. i have put a few comments in their proper place in responce to your thoughts. > =20 > That "The Merchant of Venice" is an anti-semitic play, that Shakespeare > believes different people have different placess in the chain of being are > obvious to me. If these qualities make Doug hate Shakespeare, that doesn't > make him a wacko. (Doug, does really S's language leave you cold or do you > just hate him?) [] no, the language is often quite entertaining--as language. (once, as i launched into a complaint about A.pope, Jackson Mac Low explained to me that Pope is one of the greatest sound poets in the english language. well that is pretty much that no?) & as for shakespair, well, he's really a terrible dramatist--his plots are on a par with George Lucas no? Mostly, i find the shakespear industry to be stiffling & reactionary. {& before anyone responds to this last sentence i would ask you to think of all those uninteresting--completely authoritarian shakespear people you have met. & it is an industry, these people sit on commities & bring their calcified brains to bear on everything from higherings to course selection--& they are given some eminence merely because they are students of the bard....well is anyone suprised that i say BAH! Hamburg! ?} {ok on a similar note, wall of sound might not be a bad thing, but i'd rather listen to strauss or ELO than vagner.....} Dear Doug, I share very much your feelings (maybe in a more ambivalent way) about=20 Shakespeare as a dramatist. Except for a King Lear production I saw in Turke= y=20 when I was a teenager and an As You Like it Production in London, I don't =20 remember a Shakespeare production which resonated for me as drama.=20 For instance, the pretense that Shakespeare's characters are speaking a=20 "natural" language is surreally ludicrous. In fact, to make Shakespeare's=20 plays alive one must accentuate their artificiality -maybe turn the play int= o=20 a machine. Then, flashes of incredible beauty sneak out of them -for=20 instance, accentuate the baroque irreality of a handkerchief causing a murde= r=20 in Othello. So ridiculous, but so breathtaking. In other words, to get to Shakespeare's heart as a dramatist, one must dives= t=20 "beautiful language" and "human nature" from it, H. Bloom's nonsensical book= =20 about S. inventing human nature (or is it human emotion?) being the latest=20 culprit in this genre. =20 About ten years ago I started to rewrite Twelth Night by keeping exactly the= =20 plot (twins, etc) but putting every Shakespeare line in a Manhattan lingo.=20 Skakespeare without poetry. I think I did the first few scenes. I agree with you; Olivier's, Guilguld's and the latest English guys'=20 Shakespeare are awful to me too > As for the thought police and unified front argument: a literary > conference > is not a caucus, nobody is voting for anybody. Ideally, the purpose of > such > a > conference (besides boozing and meeting friends one doesn't see > otherwise), > it seems to me, is to hash out ideas. I wasn't at Orono, but the concept > of > "building bridges" is a bit gaga. Writing is more about distinctions > rather > than consensus. [] well yes, but the context was actually about the potential for real political action--in which case, one needs to first realize that one needs organization, unity & concensus--otherwise it is just talking, which is OK, but one should not parade around in such clothes as "political action." > =20 > A confrontation similar to the one between Baraka and Watten (and > Perloff?) > occurred between Baraka and Eliot Weinberger and Eileen Myles at the > Poetry > Project a few years ago. When Weinberger said Communist writing was bad > and > conservative and experimental writing good and revolutionary, Baraka hit > the > roof. Obviously, Baraka doesn't think "revolutionary writing" of the > Language > School isn't the same of political revolution either. [] oh in deed--you might remember that Mr. Weinberger sent the poem pro-jay newsletter a nice note denouncing my good friend tony dohr after he supported baraka's attack as thoughtful, well reasoned & accurate in his report on that event. (also in the pro-jay newsletter) =20 [] thanks for your question--which provided me with this opportunity to clarify some things. Douglas b) As for Orono conference's purpose to have been "political action." To be=20 blunt about it, since when does a group of full professors, associate=20 professors, assistant professors, etc. (I am assuming, maybe unfairly, that=20 was the constitution of the majority of the attendants) create political=20 momentum. If the conference is so keen about "political action," perhaps its= =20 participants could do something about the shameful, exploitative institution= =20 of "adjunct lectureships" (is that the term), which increasingly allows=20 universities to suck the blood of too many of its teachers at ludicrously lo= w=20 salaries and with very few benefits, a la 19th century industry barons.=20 Instead of chasing after the ever shrinking number of tenured positions, why= =20 don't those with positions risk their jobs and strike - together- until the=20 institution of "adjunctship" is relinquished by universities. Of course, tha= t=20 would be risky; but that's what political action means to me.=20 o be sure, I am an outsider. What do I know? It only appears to me that no=20 industry workers would tolerate today the conditions college teachers are=20 tolerating in the States, except for "illegals." At least, "illegals" know=20 why they have to take this shit (family back home, deportation). In my=20 opinion, college teachers constitute (especially in the humanities) the most= =20 passive, class unconscious -competing against each other in the worst=20 tradition of scabbing- group of workers imaginable. Because of that I find=20 all this talk about "revolution," "political action," "revolutionary=20 language" (whatever) in these conferences or symposia, etc., a bit rich. We come back, it seems to me, to the same question we started with in=20 Baraka's altercation with Watten, Weinberger, etc. Does politically radical=20 activity have anything to do with experimental writing? I would say Baraka i= s=20 fulminating exactly against this blurring of distinction (except, for me, fo= r=20 the nagging question why he keeps attending these conferences since he must=20 know what he will mostly hear there. Perhaps these confrontations are agit=20 props.) In my last post I mentioned the "treasure trove" of "The Arcades Project"=20 being, in all sorts of ways, as a central book for the next fifty years. The= =20 distinctions (dilemma) between radical political action and writing are one=20 of the main themes of the chapter entitled "Literary History, Hugo." Here is= =20 a quote by Walter Benjamin from that chapter which focuses exactly on what I= =20 am talking about, on the tenor of my argument: "A. Michiels, Histoire des id=C3=A9es litt=C3=A9raires en France au XIX s= iecle=E2=80=99=20 (Paris, 1863), vol. 2, provides, in his portrait of Saint-Beuve, an=20 outstanding description of the reactionary man of letters at midcentury. I caused a revolutionary wind to blow; I made the old lexicon don the insurgents=E2=80=99 red cap. [L.S.!!] No more words, Senator! Commoner, no more! I raised a storm at the bottom of the inkwell." (AP, p. 746) Doug, I am sending this letter also to the List. You are part of the argumen= t=20 now. I believe you should continue to be so.=20 Ciao. Murat Nemet-Nejat =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:30:13 PDT Reply-To: jbleheup@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jbleheup@SFU.CA Subject: Judy 3 Reminder Comments: To: pulley-press@sfu.ca Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Hello, Just a friendly reminder that the launch for Judy 3 is Saturday, 8pm at Artspeak 233 Carral Street. Jason ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:55:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: new email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message had to be reformated due to the presence of HTML code. - TS > From: "Mills, Billy" > To: "Poetics (E-mail)" > Subject: new email > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:26:15 +0100 > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) > > Hi > > I cannot log on to the site to find out what to do, I wonder if you could > remove me from the list at this address and ad me at hpp@gofree.indigo.ie > > > Thanks > > Billy Mills > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 16:52:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cynthia Kane Tedesco Subject: 'Barrow Street Summer 2000' Contributors AND AVAILABILITY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends, 'BARROW STREET SUMMER 2000' IS NOW AVAILABLE! OUR CONTRIBUTORS ARE: AUSTIN M. ALEXIS, RANE ARROYO, JEANNE MARIE BEAUMONT, PAM BERNARD, GAYLORD BREWER, KURT BRUNGARDT, MELISA CAHNMANN, SUE CARNAHAN, SUSAN CODY, DINA COE, LISA COHEN, STEPHEN CRAMER, KATHERINE DIMMA, RAY DIPALMA, WILLIAM DORESKI, STEPHEN DUNN, MALCOLM FARLEY, HERBERTO HELDER TR. BY ALEXIS LEVITIN, JOHN HELLEGERS, BRIAN HENRY, DAVE JOHNSON, A. VAN JORDAN, KASEY JUEDS, JEN KARETNICK, ROBERT KELLY, ROBERT KENDALL, STEPHEN KNAUTH, RICHARD KOSTELANETZ, PRISCILLA LEE, RICHARD LEHNERT, STUART LISHAN, JEFFREY LOO, PATRICK MARTIN, SUSAN McCABE, STEPHEN McLEOD, RICHARD MEIER, KAREN NEUBERG, KATHLEEN OSSIP, JASON OTT, ALAN MICHAEL PARKER, MOLLY PEACOCK, JACLYN PIUDIK, ANNE RICHEY, BERTHA ROGERS, CONCETTINA SACHELI-McCAULEY, ANDREW SMITH, BRANDON MENDOZA SOM, GREGORY VINCENT ST. THOMASINO, THEA SULLIVAN, PAULA TATARUNIS, LEE UPTON, JEAN VALENTINE, ANCA VLASOPOLOS, PETER WHALEN, ALAN WILLIAMSON AND RACHEL ZUCKER. 'BARROW STREET' IS PUBLISHED BIANNUALLY BY BARROW STREET, INC., PO BOX 2017 OLD CHELSEA STATION NEW YORK, NY 10113-2017; OUR WEB SITE: barrowstreet.org SUBSCRIPTION RATES: $15 ONE YEAR, $28 TWO YEARS, $42 THREE YEARS SINGLE COPIES ARE $8 PLEASE ADD $5 FOR FOREIGN MAIL THANK YOU! THE EDITORS: PATRICIA CARLIN, PETER COVINO, LOIS HIRSHKOWITZ, MELISSA HOTCHKISS, CYNTHIA TEDESCO ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:18:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Phenomenology of the Other MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Phenomenology of the Other Even now, I cannot speak for the Other, said Nikuko. The Other has her chains around me; they are of my own manufacture, not in the sense of hand-work, but of factory-labor, theoretical machinery refusing permis- sion to the nth degree. The chains are fiery and adamant; I hold my wasted arms within them, un- daring to touch the heated metal. The Other, by the very fact of her ex- istence, holds me enthralled, holds me in thrall. I am immobilized. Alan says, spell that out; Nikuko replies, it is the Other who spells, casts spells, the caste of the Other whom I do not understand, whom I dare not comprehend, whom I cannot comprehend. She will open up gates and filters to me, routers and firewalls to me; she will throw everything in my direction, to the extent that I am thrown into existence, into her existence, out of existence. She is writing this - if I have anything to say, it is that the Other is writing this, that I am an Other, that she is external, that I am supplicant. Alan says so she writes you into existence, Nikuko, and Nikuko replies, no, it is not like that, Alan, I am primordial, pre-existent; when I die, the world dies with me. But she is writing this, yes, she is writing this, without my permission, Alan, and she has opened all firewalls and all fields, and I will call her, will call the Other, Bodhisattva, but not in her regard, not in the regard of the Other, Alan. Not in the look, Nikuko, Alan replied, not in the gaze of the Other, Nikuko, and Nikuko replies, I can wait, I can always wait. Wa wa wa. ================= Note: Why Bodhisattva? Who has declared in this manner, and to whom? It is a disturbing move, as is the "primordial." Is opening an arousal? Is the Other always already a lure as such? Is the Other always open? What does it mean, not to recognize firewalls? Surely prisons are stronger than any thought; in the United States, their privatization turns thought into mass-substance, and the country into a complex of concentration camps. Bodhisattvas seem distant, in terms of compassion and spirituality. Nikuko and Alan, of course, are talking otherwise: Nikuko and Alan are still per- mitted to talk. __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:06:49 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Millennium Collection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear List Members The Millennium Collection Website - an occurrence of 'things not worth keeping' (cris cheek and Kirsten Lavers) is now online at: http://thingsnotworthkeeping.com Rummage through the unique Millennium Collection and vote for your favorite 'thing not worth keeping' now, before the dust settles on 100 selected nominations. comments/responses and nominations towards a planned 'virtual collection' also very welcome. take care love and love Kirsten Lavers cris cheek w/ apologies for cross posting ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:04:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: SCORE 15 Now Available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message reformattted due to lurking HTML code. - TS > Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 21:34:33 -0700 > Subject: SCORE 15 Now Available > From: "Laurie Schneider" > To: POETICS@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu > > SCORE 15 is now available. This 73 page issue includes visual poetry by > Aguiar (Portugal), Andrews B., Andrews J., Basinski, Beining, Bennett, > Bennett & Leftwich, Berry, Brush-Burr, Bruscky (Brasil), Burrus, Byrum, > Catlin, Chirot, Elsberg, Frost, hartman, Jaeger (Canada), Keith, > Kostelanetz, Leftwich, Malito (Ireland), Mark, Murphy (Australia), Myers, > Nakamura (Japan), Padin (Uruguay), Powell, Ristau, Spangle, Rodemark & > Smith, Spence (Australia) & Bulatov (Russia), Spence & De Araujo (Brasil), > Thomas, Valente, Weiss, and Woodruff. > > Special offer for poetics list subscribers: To all those who purchase SCORE > 15 for $12.00 post-paid, we will include a SCORE booklet and a back issue of > SCORE magazine. > > Crag Hill,1111 E. Fifth St., Moscow, ID 83843. orion@pullman.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 02:59:48 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: Little Review: Kevin Davies' Comp. In-Reply-To: <200007192230.SAA04901@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i'm sorry ken, i have to disagree. canada is not technically part of America. it is tectonically part of a merica. listen, i don't want to come off as a canadian nationalist zealot but the notion of "most commonly used and understood" is a bit naive. used and understood by whom? Americans? definitely not by anyone whom has been to both places. i get your drift in a way. my cousins in northern ireland dream about comimg to america -- that being- not europe or australia or africa or icelandbut the delineations you suggest or believe in are more complicated. if i were to follow your thinking then poets from belize are appple pie and baseball as are alaskans. my original beef (and that's a small b Beef) was about place or platform. we, all as writers and thinkers about poetry. the home base is not homogonized(sp?). your home base may be the pentagon you reach after third, mine the tree whre i can call "ally ally infree" if i get there before the kid who is it. think about regional differences. the APG is not the TRG even though some lines in the manifestoes rhyme. this computer won't lat me backspace so i say just be careful, kevin hehir On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Ken Rumble wrote Actually, the "alternative American poetry scene" that Brian refers to that > the Canadian writer is a part of _is_ inclusive of Canada and technically > could be considered "American" (if not in the way the word "American" is > most commonly used and understood) since Canada is a very big part of the > North American Continent. If Brian had said "alternative US poetry scene" > then I could see why caution would be necessary. > > Ken Rumble > > > > > At 03:14 PM 7/19/2000 -02-30, you wrote: > >On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Stefans, Brian wrote: > > > >> Kevin Davies > >> Comp. > >> Edge Books > >> $12.50 > >> ISBN: 1--890311--08--1 > >> 110 pp. > > > >> Like many younger poets from the west coast of Canada, Davies' > >> poetics derive from the cross-roads of "projective" speech-based verse -- > > > > > >> _Comp._ is one of the best books of poetry to have emerged from the > >> alternative American poetry scene in years, and is sure to revive many a > > > > > >Amazing, the alternative American poetry scene is so far out there it > >doesn't even reside in America. Please don't take this northern > >intervention too seriously just be careful. > > > >All the same, a wonderful review of what sounds like a dynomite book. > > > >bests, > >kevin > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:20:44 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: GasHeart@AOL.COM Subject: Philly: Theater, Music, Film - Republican Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1. New Games at Clark Park!!! - first Sunday of every month 2. Women's Medical Fund Benefit - Many all girls bands, Sun., July 30th 3. THE FLOATING LOTUS MAGIC PUPPET THEATER, THURS, AUG. 3, 7:30pm=20 4. TO THE PROTEST ART MEETING, MONDAY JULY 24th, 7 PM 5. Independent Media Center of Philadelphia, Free Speech Cinema 6. unity2000 parade/march Route Update!, sun., 7/30, 10:30-4pm, free _____________________________________________________ =20 1. New Games at Clark Park!!! - first Sunday of every month =20 Hey, Josh! I keep wanting to ask you to post this, it's a monthly event that we starte= d=20 last year - New Games at Clark Park!!! We meet the first Sunday of every=20 month (in good weather) at 11:00AM at Clark Park in West Philadelphia to pla= y=20 'New Games', which are noncompetetive, group games. We get the game ideas=20 from 2 books - 'New Games' and 'More New Games' - and from people who show=20 up. They (people and games!)are very playful, fun, and great for adults and= =20 children of all ages. Everyone welcome! The next one is August 6th. Thanks PS I'm looking to buy a parachute to play with, email me if anyone has a=20 lead! Jen Marvelous jent@hotmail.com =20 ___________________________________________________ =20 2. Women's Medical Fund Benefit - Many all girls bands, Sun., July 30th =20 estr0fest 2000 =20 Benefit for the Greater Philadelphia Women's Medical Fund and the Mama Kangaroos Project =20 (not to mention a kick ass welcoming party for all the activists in town fo= r=20 the Republican Convention) =20 Sunday July 30 3-10 pm at La Tazza 108 108 Chestnut Street Philadelphia 215-922-7322 =20 set order/times: =20 3:00-3:30 30 minutes The Dirty Triplets 3:40-4:00 20 minutes Nancy Falkow 4:15-4:50 35 minutes Poppy 5:05-5:40 35 minutes Mia Johnson & Hoagy 5:55-6:30 35 minutes Dyke 6:45-7:20 35 minutes Smudging Eyeliner 7:35-8:10 35 minutes Ken 8:25-9:10 35 minutes 3 7000 9 9:25-10:00 35 minutes Meth 25 =20 plus special surprise guests! =20 An Oswald S'merck Production =20 The Greater Philadelphia Women's Medical Fund is a loan service to aid low=20 income women in obtaining reproductive services, and the Mama Kangaroos=20 Project would finance a compilation documenting the current Philadelphia=20 chick band/chick artist scene. =20 =20 see ya... =20 mike ___________________________________________________ =20 3. THE FLOATING LOTUS MAGIC PUPPET THEATER, THURS, AUG. 3, 7:30pm=20 =20 Dear Josh: I hope in the welter of all the great political activism, you'll be able to= =20 publicize my non-political puppet show, August 3rd at the Main Line Art=20 Center...=20 =20 viz: =20 THE FLOATING LOTUS MAGIC PUPPET THEATER presents=20 *THE MYSTICAL ROMANCE OF LAYLA & MAJNUN* told through poetry, puppets, music and masks by DANIEL ABDAL-HAYY MOORE (not primarily for children) THURSDAY, AUGUST 3,7:30pm=20 $5 donation requested MAIN LINE ART CENTER,=20 HAVERFORD, PENNSYLVANIA OLD BUCK ROAD & LANCASTER AVENUE=20 (next to the Wilkie Lexus Dealership opposite Wendy's, past Petco Pet=20 Center)=20 610-525-0272 =20 =20 It might be a peaceful haven in all the ruckus, and in its own way is a=20 radical alternative to (and spiritual protest against) the rabid nonsense o= f=20 American political life...=20 =20 Anyway, anything you can do. Thanks Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moore Abdalhayy@aol.com =20 (i met this guy, and emailed him, he seems quite cool and i bet he puts on=20 quite a show. -josh) =20 ___________________________________________________ =20 4. TO THE PROTEST ART MEETING, MONDAY JULY 24th, 7 PM =20 too badd i did't know you were going to send out your mailing, but can you do another minimailing to your list? we need to tell people about the puppetista convergence: =20 =20 COME ONE! COME ALL! =20 ************TO THE PROTEST ART MEETING******** (no silly, not to protest art, to make art for protest) =20 COME YOU PUPPET PLAYERS, MUSIC MAGICIANS, DANCE DEMIGODS, THEATRE THROWERS, BANNER BILLOWERS... and everyone else who want to stir the ACTION into a wonderful array of colors, sounds, movements, messages, and spirits!!! =20 Logistical, stratigical, coordinating meeting ***** 7 PM MONDAY JULY 24th ****** (ta-da!) ...at the "Ministry of Puppetganda" warehouse... =20 SW corner of 41st and Haveford Avenue (Take #10 trolley, get off at 40th and Lancaster Avenue. Haveford intersects Lancaster at 40th Street. Walk on Haveford one block towards 41st Street. Huge building on the corner. Door on Haveford. Knock.) =20 START BUILDING NOW, BEAT THE RUSH! =20 THIS WEEK --> schedule so far: Friday 7/21 2-8 Saturday 7/22 11-8 =20 NEXT WEEK --> 24 HOUR ACCESS IS AVAILABLE!!!! Guarenteed hours: 9am-midnight After hours: call before you come (Phone numbers available at convergence check-in) =20 ALSO... =20 Check out the ROCKIN' Spiral Q Puppet Theatre space... 1307 Sansom Street, 3rd floor, 215-545-2127 (if door is locked, yell up "SPIRAL Q!") Few time slots available =20 =20 Questions? Comments? Contact: Ministry of Puppetganda... netzer@voicenet.com Spiral Q Puppet Theatre... spiralQ@critpath.org =20 _______________________________________________________ =20 5. Independent Media Center of Philadelphia, Free Speech Cinema =20 Free Speech Cinema =20 Grand Opening of the Independent Media Center of Philadelphia =20 Come join in this celebration of free speech and media democracy, and learn about the IMC-Philly's plans for press coverage of the Republican National Convention. 1324 Locust Street, 1st Floor. $5 suggested donation to help us raise the rent for our beautiful new space! =20 =20 For more info call (215)627-0710 or check out our website: http://phillyimc.org =20 Sat. July 22nd 8:00 PM=20 =20 Enjoy =20 A satirical tale of love for a giant neon Coca-Cola sign. The video suggests that to "enjoy" is the highest ideal in this culture of consumption. (14 min.) =20 The Ad and the Ego =20 The celebrated film by Harold Boihem and Chris Emmanouilides that takes on advertising on its own terms and exposes the destructive power of a mass media system out of control. It shows the link between our debased public discourse and a media culture that defines freedom as consumer choice rather thandemocratic participation. This film goes beyond deconstructing individual ads to show how living in an advertising infused environment affects our perceptions of the world, of power and ourselves. Viewer discretion is advised: you will never look at an ad the same way again. (57 min.) =20 =20 Tues. July 25th 8:00 PM =20 Blast from the Past =20 Excerpts from independent media coverage of past conventions. =20 SPIN =20 An astounding, and often hilarious, video that uses pirated satellite feeds to demonstrate the fabrication of that lofty thing we call "news." With a behind the scenes look at what news anchors, talk show hosts and politicians say when they think they're off the air, you will truly understand how the all the world's a stage. =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D =20 "If there is no struggle, there is no progress. =20 Power concedes nothing without a demand." =20 - Frederick Douglas =20 (independent media center is a non corporate, alternative group, intending=20 to=20 put out the news/stories as they occur, hopefully the main stream media wil= l=20 stop by here and get the latest, inside scoop....journalists encouraged to=20 volunteer to help compile news/press releases during convention at the=20 IMC........let=92s see if the main stream media has good intentions enough=20= to=20 print the truth. -josh) =20 1324 Locust Street, 1st Floor.=20 =20 For more info call (215)627-0710 or check out our website: http://phillyimc.org =20 ___________________________________________________ =20 6. unity2000 parade/march Route Update!, sun., 7/30, 10:30-4pm, free =20 parade update =20 hey josh- =20 Unity 2000 is no longer meeting @ 30th street. I know it still has that o= n=20 the website, but it's been moved to 19th & jfk. the plan is to fill the space between 19 & 29, but the city doesn't want 29th street blocked. the=20 rest of the march is the same. =20 -mike =20 below is the previous info=20 =20 march starts at 30th and jfk blvd. , turns left on ben franklin=20 parkway, ends with rally at art museum....a permitted rally expected to be=20 the largest demonstration before the convention. rally includes dozens of=20 speakers, musicians, dancers, more.....see www./unity2000.com, or call=20 215-627-5007 =20 also Billionaires for Bush or Gore will march as a contingent in the=20 unity2000 march.......meet at 30th and jfk at 9:30 am ..see =20 www.BillionairesForBushorGore.com =20 ____________________________________________________ =20 other info: i found in this issue of the defenstrator, which you can pick up at the=20 progressive/anarchist bookstore, the wooden shoe (wouldn=92t you), along wit= h=20 several other free small newspapers......unconvention.....and=20 mediareader...... wooden shoe is located on 5th st. between south and lombard st. convergence venues : william way center - 1315 spruce, open mon., 7/24 thru convention, 10 am -=20 10pm, general info there and sign-up community education center (C.E.C.) - 3500 lancaster ave. - training and=20 workshops all day, open mon., 7/24 thru convention, 9:30 - 9pm killtime : 3854 lancaster ave., issuers training, and workshops, open mon.=20 7/24 to sun., 7/30, 10 am - 6pm fakehouse - 3868 lancaster ave., trainings and workshops, 7/24-7/30, 10-5pm puppet space - 4100 haverford ave., puppet making workshops 24 hours a day=20 beginning mon., 7/24, call if you need overnight access, phone number will b= e=20 at registration wise women=92s center - 735 s. 50th st., providing child care for all the=20 little revolutionaries mon., 7/24-thurs., 8/4, 9am-5pm ongoing activities,=20 food at CEC, 3500 lancaster ave., 10-6pm by the seeds of peace and everyone= =92s=20 kitchen action spokescouncil; meeting every evening beginning 7/24, location to be=20 announced bike rental; get a bike for a onetime $5 rental (collateral required), bring= =20 your own lock, available at the C.E.C., 3500 lancaster ave., starting 7/24,=20 noon-5pm legal support, write this number down, in case arrested call 215-925-6791 many workshops listed here .....in the defenstrator, a newspaper..... legal rally on july 30 kensington welfare rights rally (no permit yet) july 31 and the for aug. 1 it says =94massive civil disobedience and direct action..= ..=94 of course everywhere we are reading that these actions are to be non-violent and the police have promised not to use excessive force, and there has been=20 some dialogue between the protesters and the police already, which i think i= s=20 a good thing also in ther defenstrator, practical ways to deal with tear gas, pepper=20 spray, etc.,=20 apparently one idea is to have a bandana soaked with a solution 19 parts=20 water, 1 part vinegar, the acid in the vinegar interrupts the tear gas they recently (one month ago) passed a law saying no masks by people =93tryi= ng=20 to intimidate or intending to break a law=94, which is vague enough to sugge= st=20 that these bandanas can be carried in your backpack, and put on as needed. hopefully this will not be needed and this info is provided just in case. that=92s all for now......this newsletter usually focuses more on art things= ,=20 but this phenomena is definitely newsworthy, and in philly,....i am not=20 advocating anything, i am just reporting on what is happenning. -josh ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 13:21:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rancho Loco Press Subject: Re: duncan website Comments: cc: jarnot@pipeline.com In-Reply-To: <200007181943.PAA13384@granger.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_48616297==_.ALT" --=====================_48616297==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is a wonderfully useful site. Many thanks, Lisa, for putting it together. Best, Joe Ahearn At 03:42 PM 7/18/00 -0400, you wrote: >My new Robert Duncan website is now up and running at: > > >http://members.xoom.com/subpress/robertduncan.htm > > >If anyone would like to contribute essays, photos, etc., please let me know. > >Thanks, > >Lisa Jarnot >jarnot@pipeline.com Joe Ahearn Dallas Rancho Loco Press / VEER magazine Think global, act loco. __________________________________________________________ e'mail: editor@rancho-loco-press.com URLs: www.rancho-loco-press.com, www.rancho-loco-press.com/veer --=====================_48616297==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
This is a wonderfully useful site. Many thanks, Lisa, for putting it together.

Best,
Joe Ahearn







At 03:42 PM 7/18/00 -0400, you wrote:
>My new Robert Duncan website is now up and running at:
>
>
>http://members.xoom.com/subpress/robertduncan.htm
>
>
>If anyone would like to contribute essays, photos, etc., please let me know.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Lisa Jarnot
>jarnot@pipeline.com

Joe Ahearn
Dallas
Rancho Loco Press / VEER magazine

Think global, act loco.
__________________________________________________________
e'mail: editor@rancho-loco-press.com
URLs: www.rancho-loco-press.com, www.rancho-loco-press.com/veer --=====================_48616297==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:48:20 -0400 Reply-To: Brian Stefans Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Re: Little Review: Kevin Davies' Comp. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFF3FC.A46A47C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFF3FC.A46A47C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Like many younger poets from the west coast of Canada, Davies' >> poetics derive from the cross-roads of "projective" speech-based = verse -- > > >> _Comp._ is one of the best books of poetry to have emerged from the >> alternative American poetry scene in years, and is sure to revive = many a Good catch, I suppose I sort of did that on purpose. But along the = lines of what Ken and George wrote, I don't think of "American" poetry = as that written in the "USA", or at least I always refer to this country = as the "USA" and never "America", probably a note of self-consciousness = that my Canadian friends, especially Jeff Derksen, impressed in me. = Kevin Davies, for those of you who don't know, is "from Vancouver" = though I think he wasn't born in that city, and has been living in New = York for as long as I have (originally from New Jersey), so I consider = him as much part of this "scene" as anyone born in the US, not that New = York's is the only scene in the US. Consequently, if I were to record = for myself all of the best poetry readings that I've seen in New York, a = good half (or some lopsidedly large percentage) of them would probably = be by "Canadians" -- Jeff, Kevin, Dan Farrell, Lisa Robertson, Steve = McCaffery, Peter Culley, Darren Wershler-Henry, Christian Bok, etc. etc. = (there ARE more, just don't want to bore you) -- and its very tiresome = for me to see them ignored by anthologies and critical writers who = dismiss them as not very important to the great American modernist = tradition. There is a great "American" modernist tradition of writers = from the US -- I don't think Louis Dudek, Raymond Souster, Irving = Layton, Earle Birney, those folks, offer nearly as much -- but if it = survives as anything, it's going to include Canadians as a substantial = part of it. I think Roy Kiyooka is the most interesting poet in the = Premonitions anthology of "Asian North American Poetry", and what about = Daphne Marlatt? -- more interesting than tons of writers we are so = fascinated by now in an effort to keep this tradition alive. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFF3FC.A46A47C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>>  Like many younger poets = from the=20 west coast of Canada, Davies'
>> poetics derive from the = cross-roads of=20 "projective" speech-based verse --
>
>
>> _Comp._ = is one of=20 the best books of poetry to have emerged from the
>> = alternative=20 American poetry scene in years, and is sure to revive many = a

Good catch, I suppose I sort of did = that on=20 purpose.  But along the lines of what Ken and George wrote, I don't = think=20 of "American" poetry as that written in the "USA", or at least I always = refer to=20 this country as the "USA" and never "America", probably a note of=20 self-consciousness that my Canadian friends, especially Jeff Derksen, = impressed=20 in me.  Kevin Davies, for those of you who don't know, is "from = Vancouver"=20 though I think he wasn't born in that city, and has been living in New = York for=20 as long as I have (originally from New Jersey), so I consider him as = much part=20 of this "scene" as anyone born in the US, not that New York's is the = only scene=20 in the US.  Consequently, if I were to record for myself all of the = best=20 poetry readings that I've seen in New York, a good half (or some = lopsidedly=20 large percentage) of them would probably be by "Canadians" -- Jeff, = Kevin, Dan=20 Farrell, Lisa Robertson, Steve McCaffery, Peter Culley, Darren = Wershler-Henry,=20 Christian Bok, etc. etc. (there ARE more, just don't want to bore you) = -- and=20 its very tiresome for me to see them ignored by anthologies and critical = writers=20 who dismiss them as not very important to the great American modernist=20 tradition.  There is a great "American" modernist tradition of = writers from=20 the US -- I don't think Louis Dudek, Raymond Souster, Irving Layton, = Earle=20 Birney, those folks, offer nearly as much -- but if it survives as = anything,=20 it's going to include Canadians as a substantial part of it.  I = think Roy=20 Kiyooka is the most interesting poet in the Premonitions anthology of = "Asian=20 North American Poetry", and what about Daphne Marlatt? -- more = interesting than=20 tons of writers we are so fascinated by now in an effort to keep this = tradition=20 alive.
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFF3FC.A46A47C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 02:13:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Open Letter Launch: "The Body Chronic" (Vancouver - July 26) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" LAUNCH for a special double issue of OPEN LETTER "THE BODY CHRONIC" With Readings from the Writers: Mark Cochrane Wayde Compton Martine Delvaux Erin Soros 7:30-9:30, Wednesday July 26th, Graduate Student Penthouse, UBC (Beside the Freddy Wood Theatre) free event refreshments, cash bar, patio with ocean view, five appliances Sponsored by "An interdisciplinary inquiry into narratives of disease, disability and trauma," and funded by the Peter Wall Institute for Advanced Studies, UBC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:26:40 -0600 Reply-To: Laura.Wright@Colorado.EDU Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wright Laura E Subject: contentville and copyrights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those interested in copyright issues... From Library Journal's Academic Newswire (TM) July 25, 2000 NATIONAL WRITERS UNION TAKES ON CONTENTVILLE.COM Another day, another copyright controversy. After being contacted by a member whose articles had appeared for sale on the content clearinghouse www.contentville.com, National Writer's Union (NWU) President Jonathan Tasini last week fired off a warning shot to Contentville founder Steven Brill. "The National Writers Union represents more than 6000 writers," wrote Tasini. "Of these, there could literally be thousands whose work is being used illegally at your website, not to mention thousands of other [non- union] writers." Tasini urged Brill to contact him so the two could work out a solution, most likely involving the Publishing Rights Clearinghouse (PRC), an NWU initiative that negotiates, collects, and distributes license fees for member writers. Tasini has already succesfully sued a group of publishers, lead by the New York Times, claiming that the publishers illegally sold freelance articles to digital archives without obtaining the permission of, or paying the authors. The verdict was recently upheld on appeal (see LJ Academic Newswire 5/18/00) and could be headed to the Supreme Court. ------------------------ BRILL TO TASINI: WE'RE NOT THE BAD GUYS It appears, however, that Tasini will not have to head back to court to sue Contentville. Once contacted, Contentville founder Steven Brill immediately responded to Tasini's charges and vowed that he would do the right thing. "We want to do not only what the law requires," Brill wrote to Tasini, "but what decent ethics require." Brill has scheduled a meeting with Tasini to discuss matters further. In his response to Tasini, Brill also said that Contentville would consider paying royalties to contributors. Moreover, Brill said he has tracked all purchases to date and would pay royalties retroactively to whomever the copyright owners are determined to be and take down any article if instructed to do so. "I'd be pretty [upset] if I thought I owned something and was watching as someone else sold it and pocketed the money," writes Brill. But Contentville insists that it did enter into license agreements with digital archives, including well- known library suppliers Bell and Howell and EBSCO, for the content they posted for sale. "I don't think we should be cast as the bad guy here for trying to create a market for this stuff and for getting it started by going to those who say they own it," says Brill. ------------------------ COPYRIGHT EXPERT: LIBRARIES SHOULD SHOULD TAKE NOTE OF TASINI IN LICENSE AGREEMENTS As amenable as Contentville's Brill seems to be in resolving his current conflict with writers, the flap raises a number of serious questions about the electronic licensing of content, especially in light of the Tasini v. New York Times verdict. Do these digital archives actually have the rights to the content they are licensing? How does one know? And would a library be liable, like Contentville, for unwittingly distributing material illegally, even if it thought it had a valid license agreement? According to Karen Hersey, Intellectual Property Counsel for the Massachussetts Institute of Technology, while perhaps not financially liable for infringement, libraries should take note of the Tasini ruling, as it could dramatically affect the amount of content supplied via license agreements into which they have entered. Bell and Howell VP James D. Barcelona told the LJ Academic Newswire the Tasini ruling could force large chunks of material to be removed from their databases (see LJ Academic Newswire 5/18/00), something libraries should remember when paying license fees, says Hersey. "Not only should libraries be negotiating for warranties, and for a right to be indemnified and held harmless if the materials delivered by the publisher are infringing the copyright of third parties, they should also be negotiating a right to recoup a percentage of their license fees if the archive they have paid to access the content falls below a certain percentage [of content promised]," explains Hersey. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "The writer belongs to a language which no one speaks..." -M. Blanchot Laura E. Wright University of Colorado, Norlin Library Acquisitions Dept. (303) 492-8457 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:16:49 -0700 Reply-To: TBrady@msgidirect.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Comments: To: Taylor Brady MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [This is a group e-mail - my apologies for any cross-posting. Taylor Brady] Reading:THE BAY AREA AWARD SHOW 2000 New Work by Literature Awardees TAYLOR BRADY and SUSAN GEVIRTZ Wednesday, August 9 at 8 pm Tickets $6/$4 Langton members, student, seniors Reservations 415 626 5416 New Langton Arts 1246 Folsom Street, San Francisco www.newlangtonarts.org San Francisco - New Langton Arts announces the literature awardees of The Bay Area Award Show 2000, San Francisco poets Taylor Brady and Susan Gevirtz. Brady and Gevirtz are risk-takers who manipulate language in innovative, vigorous ways. Brady reads pieces from To Not (1995-), an ongoing series of sequential poems, which includes excerpts from Research, a novel-in-progress which reconfigures Brady's autobiography into a critical reading of Proust. Gevirtz reads two new pieces, Thrall and Deciphretude, and a selection from her forthcoming book, Hourglass Transcripts. TAYLOR BRADY recombines raw material from his own written work to create hybrid compositions with infinite possibilities. Brady, a board member at Small Press Traffic, SF, has published two chapbooks 33549 (Leroy Books, SF, forthcoming) and Is Placed/Leaves (Meow Press, Buffalo, NY, 1996), and has had poems and critical essays published in numerous periodicals including Mirage #4/Period(ical) and Berkeley Poetry Review (2000). SUSAN GEVIRTZ' writing is often a fluid response to her context and interrogates the inherent subjectivity of language. of her poems which use language as a vehicle to navigate the experience of a site. Gevirtz received her PhD from UC Santa Cruz and is currently a writing professor in the Masters Program at University of San Francisco. She has produced numerous books of poetry including Dwarf of Passage (Burning Deck Press, Providence, RI, forthcoming), Black Box Cutaway (Kelsey Street Press, Berkeley, CA, 1999), and Taken Place (Reality Street Editions, Cambridge, England, 1993). THE BAY AREA AWARD SHOW 2000 Now in its seventh year, The Bay Area Award Show 2000 is an annual gallery exhibition and festival of theater events spotlighting up-and-coming local musicians, visual artists, performers, and writers. Artists selected for The Award Show receive funding and professional production support to produce new works for Bay Area audiences. Awardees were selected by Langton's curatorial board, composed of working artists, from nearly 200 submissions. AWARDEES Visual Art: Leona Christie, Frederick Hayes, Jon-Paul Villegas Au Musée d'Honneur Minuscule: Hilary Chartrand Music: John Ingle NetWork: Steev Hise, Masako Odaka Performance: Jacob Hartman, Kathryn Williamson Video: Bob Linder BOX OFFICE INFORMATION *Tickets for readings $6 general or $4 for Langton members, students, and seniors *All other events $8 general or $6 for Langton members, students, and seniors *Advance reservations are recommended. Call 415 626 5416 *Advance purchases with Visa or Mastercard may be made over the phone A $1/ticket service charges applies for all credit card purchases *Group discounts and complimentary tickets for caregivers are available - - - New Langton Arts is funded in part by Michael Abbink, Association Française d'Action Artistique, Banana Republic, BankAmerica Foundation, Stephen Buckingham, Lewis Butler, The Creative Work Fund, Penny and James Coulter, Cultural Equity Grants Program of the San Francisco Arts Commission, Cultural Services of the French Embassy, Joshua Distler, Martha Dresher, eBay Great Collections, Etant donnés, Simon Frankel, Charlotte and Maynard Franklin, Joseph Furlong III, Grants for the Arts/San Francisco Hotel Tax Fund, The William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, Gretchen Hillenbrand, Edward Jew, Joe Boxer, LEF Foundation, Jeanne Meyers, Meridee Moore and Kevin King, The National Endowment for the Arts Creation & Presentation Programs, Penny Perlmutter Fernandez, Potrero Nuevo Fund, Millicent Powers, The Howard Rice Fund, Scott Setrakian, Robert Harshorn Shimshak, Marcia Tanner and Winsor Soule, Kathryn Taylor and Tom Steyer, The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, Zellerbach Family Fund, the board of directors and members of New Langton Arts. * end - For photography and interviews contact Leah Broder 415 626 5416 leah@newlangtonarts.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:04:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Long Subject: Re: EPC in the News or: Grabbing a Piece of the Pie In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The EPC is in fact an invaluable poetry resource, but the Chronicle article makes it sound as if Robert Creeley's collaborations with Francesco Clemente, Robert Indiana, and Donald Sultan are documents produced and delivered by the EPC. They are not. These online collaborations are found at the 2River web site at Daemen College in Amherst, New York. EPC is simply pointing to them. ============ 2River 2River@daemen.edu http://www.daemen.edu/~2River ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:43:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Arizona Commission on the Arts ARTIST Workshop This Wednesday, 5-7, Comments: To: "AABRAFMAN@aol. com (E-mail)" , "Allen Brafman (E-mail)" , "Anninal@Azstarnet.Com (E-mail)" , "Bill Scott (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "bob cauthorne (E-mail)" , "Boyer Rickel (E-mail)" , "Brent Cottle (E-mail)" , "carlos (E-mail)" , "Cynthia Hogue (E-mail)" , "David Greenlee (E-mail)" , "Dennis Evans (E-mail)" , "egl@listserv. arizona. edu (E-mail)" , "english@listserv. arizona. edu (E-mail)" , "Gil Ott (E-mail)" , "Hung Q. Tu (E-mail)" , "J Kuszai (E-mail)" , "jmontani@LPL. arizona. edu (E-mail)" , "Karen Falkenstrom (E-mail)" , "karen tallman (E-mail)" , "Ken Gross (E-mail)" , "Mary Koopman (E-mail)" , "mfa (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Michael Davidson (E-mail)" , "modern (E-mail)" , "neese@psi. edu (E-mail)" , "Ofelia (E-mail)" , "Penny Gates (E-mail)" , "pog@listserv. arizona. edu (E-mail)" , "pogevent (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Raft (E-mail)" , "Richard Laue (E-mail)" , "Rodrigo Toscano (E-mail)" , "Shelly Dorsey (E-mail)" , "tucson weekly (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arizona Commission on the Arts is holding a meeting for Tucson-area artists this Wednesday from 5-7pm, at the Tucson/Pima Arts Council (240 N Stone Ave). Among other things, professional development grants and artist fellowships will be discussed. Meeting is free and is open to all those interested. (I'll be there, representing POG, and so will Charles Alexander of Chax Press.) Tenney mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ here's the text of the ACA announcement: *** Arizona Commission on the Arts Artist Workshop Wednesday, July 26, 2000 5 :00-7:OOpm Tucson/Pima Arts Council Join Arizona Commission on the Arts (ACA) staff for a free workshop on resources and funding available to artists throughout the state, including: staff assistance and referrals, conferences and convenings, ArtistsRegister.com /Arizona, professional development grants, artist fellowships in visual arts, performing arts and creative writing, artist project grants, the Arizona Artist Roster and our new strategic plan and what it means to artists. Open to artists in all disciplines (visual arts, dance, theatre, folk arts, interdisciplinary, film/video, photography, music and creative writing). In addition, Tucson area arts partners, including the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, Arizona Dance Arts Alliance, P0G. Dinnerware, the Tucson Arts District Partnership, Old Pueblo Playwrights, Tucson Film Office, the UA Poetry Center and the Arizona Theatre Alliance, will be on hand to discuss their programs and resources for artists. For more information about this workshop, please call 602/255-2882; or visit our website at http://az.arts.asu.edu/artscomm. The mission of the Arizona Commission on the Arts is to enhance the artistic development of all Arizona communities, arts organizations and artists through innovative partnerships, and stewardship of public funds. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 01:43:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: The MAROON Retorts! In-Reply-To: <4MEPxEAQBjd5Ewjw@voxall.demon.co.uk> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > The > bookstore who had what I > wanted is an outfit in Las Vegas that deals primarily in the "paranormal" > and UFOs! (K.L.S.) > The politics of the FUTURE are spelled more accurately by Lyssa Royal > than by Hillary Clinton. Lyssa Royal and Rush Limbaugh share central Constitutional 4-D values. As a UFOlogist and a John Birch Republican, The MAROON grapples with imponderables. There are no DEAD, by the way, and there is no DEATH. > From: Rob Holloway > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:48:48 +0100 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: The dillonbot > > co-incidentally enough, I came across some early work by Richard Dillon > about the same time that he appeared on the list - a number of poems in > issues one and three of Alan Davies' first magazine 'Oculist Witnesses' > - unfortunately have since lent these and so am unable to give you an > example, suffice to say the work was similar to Alan's pre-Lang days - a > kind of conversational lyricism, an everydayness with surrealistic nods > - It was fine - Saroyan, Mayer and some early Silliman and Watten in > same issues - certainly very different from the present noise - tho' the > response to Patrick's recent post seemed more promising - ready for > another mind shift Richard? Any other spottings? > > Rob Holloway. > > > > > > > > >> I have a question: >> >> Has anybody on this list ever met Richard Dillon in the flesh? Is he a >> real person -- the love child of G. Gordon Liddy and Lucianne Goldberg, >> suckled at the breast of the late Ed Dorn -- or is he some persona created >> for our amusement? And if the latter, who would do such a thing? Perhaps >> one of the several list members who either left or were booted (memories >> differ) over the last several years. Or perhaps our own Chas. Bernstein, >> who, some of us suspect, created an annoying list-member persona under >> another name in the list's early days. Finally, perhaps "he" (Dillon) is a >> not a maroon (tho he sings a Looney Tune) but a BOT, created by right-wing >> programmers at the Drudge Report or freerepublic.com, a bot which strings >> together right-wing conspiracy boilerplate as a parody of language writing >> or the much-alluded to (by the dillonbot) Burroughs. This last >> possibility gains more credence with me every time I read one of the >> dillonbot's posts. >> >> Cheers, >> David >> >> >> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Richard Dillon wrote: >> >>> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:38:43 -0400 >>> From: Richard Dillon >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: THE MAROON RETORTS: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >>> >>> THE MAROON is not as clever as you paint him. You are. >>> >>> The Maroon believes Paul Fray and his wife, Trooper Patterson, and writer >>> Oppenheimer that Hilarity is a BIGOT AND A BULLY. >>> >>> You want to deconstruct THE MAROON and thus permit HILARITY her power over >>> you and the other poets in your school. You would rather not deconstruct >>> Hilarity because such a truly radical act might perhaps cost you tenure. >>> >>> Hilarity is a phony. Tears are in her eyes now for she's been found out >>> because multiple witnesses from different stations saw her deliver cruel >>> words and have seen what she is. Former allies who tried to help her would >>> not now lie. Not unless something more important were at stake, something >>> irreplaceable, call it conscience, call it liberty. Other former friends >>> and associated have passed away mysteriously as the Cyclone of the Clintons >>> appeared on the horizon of their lives, moved through, using them, catching >>> them up in vain idealisms, and went on its course. When Hilarity was >>> finished with the Arkansans they were 49th in education. Rape after rape >>> had gone unpunished. And the Lippo Bank, owned in part by Beijing Borg Jack >>> Booted Thugs (Their Tanks Once Stopped By The Maroon In Tiannamen Square), >>> had planted its first American outpost in Little Rock. >>> >>> There comes a time when you believe one side or the other and then >>> afterwards the Truth will out. THE MAROON, who gains no boon by this >>> endeavor, encourages you to trust him rather than the CLINTONISTAS. You >>> will feel better on Election Day if you do not give them your power in >>> whatever State you cast your vote............ if you vote, which I doubt. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: Richard Dillon >>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>>> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:42:15 -0400 >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >>>> >>>> The easy way would be to explain the three apertures in Ron Brown's head. >>>> But that would be too easy. As the multi-millionaire A. Armand Gore said: >>>> "Let us struggle together!" >>>> >>>>> From: David Baptiste Chirot >>>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:32:45 -0500 >>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>> Subject: Re: Moderation & Immoderate Poetics >>>>> >>>>> Thank you Mark for a very considered and considerate response. >>>>> >>>>> Free Speech is a powerful term & principle, because it comes at >>>>> such a great cost. >>>>> >>>>> In all senses of that word, cost-- >>>>> >>>>> In New Hampshire, they have the slogan: "The price of freedom is >>>>> eternal vigilance" >>>>> and the license plates read >>>>> "Live Free or Die" >>>>> >>>>> The tactics emnployed by Vigilante Dillon are, as many are aware >>>>> from other lists, very simple: to bait those whom they see as rather sheep >>>>> like self righteous persons going about their business with an assurance >>>>> which masks, to the vigilante, an easily stirred anxiety. >>>>> >>>>> The vigilante's plan is to disrupt the flock and turn the would be >>>>> peaceful into what he assumes them to be: wolves in sheep's clothing, all >>>>> too ready to bare their bestial nature and foam at the mouth and howl for >>>>> blood--to which the vigilante counters with what he presents as a >>>>> "reasoned >>>>> discourse" based on a carefully selected list of inflammatory texts and >>>>> debatable "historical facts", not to mention "imagery: jutting chins, >>>>> upward lifted eyes and the like. >>>>> >>>>> It's a rather clumisly constructed anti-discourse aimed at >>>>> putting a bee in the bonnet of those the vigilante sees as soley concerned >>>>> with a discourse of rhetoric, which can be easily flustered by a counter >>>>> rhetoric. >>>>> >>>>> The baiting is to bring about censorship, and prove that the >>>>> self-proclaimed >>>>> openminded are indeed the "fascists" the vigilante claims them to be. >>>>> >>>>> Well, some of the old recalcitrants & recidivists, who just plum >>>>> can't seem to get >>>>> reformed, put their heads together and came up with a few suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> One is--silence: let ol' vigilante man send his posts and no one >>>>> respond--just press the delete button and set the fella loose unto "the >>>>> silence of these immense spaces" as Pascal put it. >>>>> >>>>> Another is to go the other direction from silence: noise, noise >>>>> and >>>>> more noise. >>>>> >>>>> Each time vigilante man sends a post, send it back to him, maybe >>>>> altering the header to something cute & Hallmarky: "A tasty tidbit for >>>>> you" "words to the wise, guy", "helpful hints for the holidays", "a >>>>> remembrance on your retirment", "greetings from the Great Outdoors" and >>>>> the like. >>>>> >>>>> One can even extend this,if feeling truly ornery, by forwarding >>>>> the posts to others,so they, >>>>> too can return the messages--and >>>>> the vigilante man finds his mail basket bursting at the seams with his own >>>>> returned words, the inbox groaning and the disc quota warnings going off >>>>> like firecrackers on the Fourth of July. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In the echo of only his own words coming bak to him, the vigilante >>>>> man will realize that no one else out there is listening--or responding >>>>> back. >>>>> >>>>> "Chatty fella--choked to death on his own words" >>>>> >>>>> Terminal silence--or terminal overload. >>>>> >>>>> "The silence of these immense spaces frightens me" >>>>> >>>>> --dbchirot >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> David Kellogg Duke University >> kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing >> (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 >> FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:02:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Re: EPC in the News In-Reply-To: from "Loss =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peque=F1o?= Glazier" at Jul 25, 2000 01:13:40 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Loss wrote: I am pleased to announce an article about the Electronic Poetry Center in the Information Technology section of the current issue of _The Chronicle of Higher Education_. The article is now available online if you go to http://www.chronicle.com/ and click on headline, "The Bards of Buffalo". I haven't seen the print version yet but I think that it will be slightly more expansive, possibly including photos and/or examples of some of the works discussed. The article quotes a number of people familiar to this list. It is great to see digital poetry receive attention from such an important source! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Chronicle of Higher Education writer, Zoe, did a good job considering the obstacles she faced (no knowledge of poetry, for one thing). You'll notice that the article doesn't try to describe or generalize about "this kind of poetry," so readers who don't know contemporary poetries are going to feel they are missing some basic definitions. I'm sure Zoe tried to get a "few inches" of such definitions into the piece, and I'm guessing it got cut. How hard it is, in such venues, to do the topic justice. In general I agree with Loss that it's good EPC is getting this kind of exposure. --Al Filreis Kelly Writers House University of Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:01:09 -0500 Reply-To: David Baptiste Chirot Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: For Philadelpho Menezes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Some very sad and tragic news: Philadelpho Menezes died in a car accident Sunday, 23 July 2000. He was only 40 and working on the organizing of an upcoming conference of the Sound Poetry to be held in Sao Paulo, his native city. He had just issued a new CD, INTERPOESIA, produced with Wilton Azeredo. Philadelpho Menezes produced many works and CDs of Sound Poetry and Visual Poetry, organized many conferences in both areas and wrote extensively on them, critically and theoretically. He was also Professor in the post-graduate program in Semiotics and Communication of the Pontifical Catholic University of Sao Paulo. His major work, POETICS AND VISUALITY A Trajectory of Contemporary Brazilian Poetry is in English translation by Harry Polkinhorn, San Diego State University Press, 1995.. Excerpts from this work are at Light and Dust Mobile Anthology of Poetry http://www.thing.net/~grist/homekarl.htm Also theoretical work of Philadelpho Menezes in English translation is included in: CORROSIVE SIGNS Edited by Cesar Espinosa, trnaslated by Harry Polkinhorn. (Washington D. C.: Maissonneuve Press, 1990). Philadelpho Menezes was a very generous and energetic participant, organizer and distributor of ideas and works and performances of Sound and Visual Poetry. His work and spirit and life are an example of the openness and internationalism in the practise, thinking, history and generosity possible in the open fields of Visual Poetry and Sound Poetry, of the Intersign. In honor of Philadelpho, may fellow workers keep alive his example and memory and works. He who walks in hiddennes has light to guide him in all his acts. --Chuang Tzu in this spirit, we have the light of Philadelpho Menezes for guide --dave baptiste chirot ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:19:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: sad news : fwd from c padin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Sad notice Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:33:54 -0300 From: "Clemente Padin" To: "Clemente Padín" Friends, again the misfortune puts a black rose in the experimental Latin American poetry. Franklin Valverde, poet from Sao Paulo, warns me for telephone that our dear friend, the poet Brazilian Philadelpho Menezes, goes out in an accident of automobile the day Sunday 23 of July. He had only 40 years old... In his last communication informed me of the event that was preparing in his native city, Sao Paulo, on sound poetry. Also he sent me his last CD Rom INTERPOESIA that he had produced next to Wilton Azeredo. His sad destiny didn't want that he makes his projects and leave us in an impassable void of surprise and pain... -------------------------- from POETICS AND VISUALITY: A Trajectory of Contemporary Brazilian Poetry by Philadelpho Menezes edited and translated by Harry Polkinhorn http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/menzes/le-menez.htm ------------------------------------ a couple visual poems: http://www.pucsp.br/~cos-puc/epe/mostra/phila.htm ---------------------------------------- Interactive poems: intersign perspective for experimental poetry http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Lights/7323/philadelpho.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:29:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: For Tony G and George B: Frim Fram Sauce In-Reply-To: <4D721A1E0197D311B1C40008C791AA3BC36FEF@mvex05.intuit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Hi Tony and George, > >Here's something I found on the Web that might help. It's copies of both >Diane and Nat's versions with a touch of explanation. What we really need is >a recipe! > >Regards, > >Pete Balestrieri Wait, was there supposed to be an attachment or website with this message? I didnt get either. gb -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:52:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: Little Review: Kevin Davies' Comp. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kevin, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but what you've written in your first and second(?) sentence there is exactly what I meant and is well illustrated by your contention: "used and understood by whom? Americans?" I didn't specify this in my first post, but yes that is what I meant (in the sense that "Americans" to "Americans" (people who live in the USA) means people who live in the USA.) The term "Americans" is used by many people who live in the US (myself including) to define themselves. What the use of that term in that way ignores, however, is that if we really wanted to be accurate we would consider ourselves "North Americans" a term that would also define Canadians, since (as I said earlier) Canada is a big ole chunk of North America. What is it that makes people from Belize not "American?" What is it that makes people from Canada, Columbia, Peru, Panama, Costa Rica (a country I'm familiar with and in which most of the people I met considered themselves "American"), Mexico, Brazil not "American?" I know what you mean when you say "American" and you mean people that live in the US, but what I'm trying to point out is the assumptions that are inherent in speaking about place and nationality in that way. Yes, tectonically and geographically, all the places I mentioned are part of what could be (and should be) considered "America." But they aren't by most of the people who live in the US. Perhaps those people that have had the opportunity to travel are enlightened enough to see differently, but is that all it takes -- a little travel -- to undo the image that is portrayed to residents of the US and is portrayed by residents of the US, that we are the most important, advanced, and generally wonderful country in the world? separate from every other country in the world? superior to every country in the world? especially country's we may be associated with merely by the accident of proximity? who share the same geographic descritption that we do (North _America_, South _America_?) The hemisphere we live in is composed of continents called North and South America. What does it mean that residents of the US erase all the other countries and people who live in this big, grand place called North and South America and reduce all that land so that the word "American" describes only the fifty states? As poets, one of our tasks is analyzing and re-configuring the common parlance of our communities. If we don't take the time to stop and think about what the word "American" means as it is commonly used and understood by many residents of the US, then who is? Is our use of the word "American" in the sense that you've used it simply innocuous? Perhaps. Though I think that the use of that word in that sense isn't inocuous. That is not to say that the misuse of the term "American" is consciously malicious; instead, I believe it is the _unconsciousness_ of that use of that word that is the problem. Questioning the use of "American" to describe what is literally the US is a political action, as is using the word "America" to describe the USA. It is an action that needs to be examined. I'm not here to say what that examination should reveal. Obviously, I have my own opinions about what it means, but the examination is more important than the result. When examined, the use of the word "American" to denote the US is a fascinating metaphor for the way that US (American) culture has moved beyond the national boundaries of the US. As US pop culture spreads out into the world, the term "American" may really be able to be applied without regard for other members of North and South America, because everywhere in the world will be "American." Then we can refer to wherever we want as "American" and it'll even be accurate, cuz we'll just be talking about that which has been homoginized by the sort of thinking that allows someone to refer to the USA as "America." Understanding (in our language and our minds (if there is a division)) that the USA is a small part of a much larger body does not homoginize the world, but instead allows use to see that there are people different from us living in more or less the same space, that we have neighbors, that we are just another country much like other countries in this big old world. Thanks. Ken Rumble At 02:59 AM 7/24/2000 -02-30, you wrote: >i'm sorry ken, i have to disagree. > canada is not technically part of >America. it is tectonically part of a merica. listen, i don't want to >come >off as a canadian nationalist zealot but the notion of "most commonly used >and understood" is a bit naive. used and understood by whom? Americans? >definitely not by anyone whom has been to both places. i get your drift in >a way. my cousins in northern ireland dream about comimg to america -- >that being- not europe or australia or africa or icelandbut the >delineations you suggest or believe in are more complicated. > >if i were to follow your thinking then poets from belize are appple pie >and baseball as are alaskans. > >my original beef (and that's a small b Beef) was about place or >platform. we, all as writers and thinkers about poetry. the home base is >not >homogonized(sp?). > >your home base may be the pentagon you reach after third, mine the >tree >whre i can call "ally ally infree" if i get there before the kid who is >it. think about regional differences. the APG is not the TRG even though >some lines in the manifestoes rhyme. > >this computer won't lat me backspace so i say > >just be careful, >kevin hehir > > > >On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Ken Rumble wrote Actually, the "alternative American >poetry scene" that Brian refers to that >> the Canadian writer is a part of _is_ inclusive of Canada and technically >> could be considered "American" (if not in the way the word "American" is >> most commonly used and understood) since Canada is a very big part of the >> North American Continent. If Brian had said "alternative US poetry scene" >> then I could see why caution would be necessary. >> >> Ken Rumble >> >> >> >> >> At 03:14 PM 7/19/2000 -02-30, you wrote: >> >On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Stefans, Brian wrote: >> > >> >> Kevin Davies >> >> Comp. >> >> Edge Books >> >> $12.50 >> >> ISBN: 1--890311--08--1 >> >> 110 pp. >> > >> >> Like many younger poets from the west coast of Canada, Davies' >> >> poetics derive from the cross-roads of "projective" speech-based verse -- >> > >> > >> >> _Comp._ is one of the best books of poetry to have emerged from the >> >> alternative American poetry scene in years, and is sure to revive many a >> > >> > >> >Amazing, the alternative American poetry scene is so far out there it >> >doesn't even reside in America. Please don't take this northern >> >intervention too seriously just be careful. >> > >> >All the same, a wonderful review of what sounds like a dynomite book. >> > >> >bests, >> >kevin >> > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:24:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Cunningham Subject: Re: bibliofind In-Reply-To: <20000719165424.DCPE21390.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@[12.72 .102.35]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kathy, etc.- Just caught your Bibliofind post. I wanted to suggest that people try Advanced Book Exchange (www.abe.com) instead of Bibliofind. Some--probably not you, Kathy--may ask what I have against Amazon, and I can only say that I have an irrational fear of conglomerates. ABE is just as good as Bibliofind, however, and actually they're larger (20 million as opposed to 10 million by their Web site claims, which may or may not be what's important when you're looking for a particular used/rare book). The ABE site additionally claims that it's the "world's largest network of independent booksellers," which I think is also true--6,300 bookstores on the ABE list, "thousands" by the Bibliofind claim. For rare poetry titles, I've found them to have everything Bibliofind has. ABE also lists the used bookstore that has the book (just like Bibliofind) and puts you into direct contact with the bookstore (just like Bibliofind). It's possible that some rare/used bookstores, many of whom share my irrational fear of conglomerates, put books on ABE that they don't put on Bibliofind. I've not heard which one gives the better deal for the bookstore, although I believe ABE listings are free for the bookstore, presumably with a charge exacted when ABE connects the buyer to the store. At the same time, I don't want to over-heroize ABE since I don't know much about them, and I've sure they're backed by the same money and forces driving Amazon. But ABE is a Canadian company, still owned and operated by its founders, and I find myself irrationally trusting Canadians. Despite the fact that they do list it on the site, I've found that many people don't realize that Bibliofind is owned by Amazon. In part, this may be because they know that Amazon owns and heavily advertises Alibris, and Alibris is very similar to Bibliofind. It may seem odd for one company to own two services doing approximately the same thing and, in fact, it is odd. As far as I can tell, Alibris and Bibliofind do exactly the same thing, or almost the same thing. Alibris warehouses some books, then special-orders what it doesn't have from any used bookstore that will give it to them for cheap, while Bibliofind lists books from specific used bookstores, then connects the user with the bookstore when a sale is made. Why does Amazon own both these ventures? A good question, and one which I cannot answer except by wild speculations about trying to make the market appear more varied than it is. There is yet another option for used/rare book searchers, believe it or not, and it is perhaps the most elegant. Although it sometimes isn't very fast, there is a service called bookfinder.com (www.bookfinder.com), which returns search results from Alibris, Bibliofind, ABE, Powells.com and many other used/rare book databases on the Web (currently not www.SPDBooks.org, however, which has many "new" books that have been on the shelves long enough to become rare books). With Bookfinder, you wait a little longer, but you get a very extensive list back. Bibliophiles, unite. Brent Cunningham At 10:01 AM 7/19/00 -0700, you wrote: >Of possible interest: I searched high and low for an out-of-print title by >Haitian-Canadian writer Dany Laferriere, and just when I was about to give >up, I finally found a copy for $7 through www.bibliofind.com. I have found >www.bibliofind.com a useful tool when searching for out- >of-print books.Bibliofind was acquired by Exchange.com, which was aquired by >Amazon.com, which is a downer, but when you order from Bibliofind you deal >directly with an independent book seller. Basically it's a consortium of >independent book sellers who list their holdings in a searchable database, >and when you find something you want you pay the bookstore directly and they >send you your book. (Bibliofind doesn't collect any extra fees.) The >bookstore who had what I >wanted is an outfit in Las Vegas that deals primarily in the "paranormal" >and UFOs! Who knows how Dany ended up there, but I found it amusing. >Bibliofind has rare collectors' stuff too, in the hundreds of dollars range, >but you can also find your basic books that you may have been searching for >unsuccessfully on the used-book circuit. I'm always glad when the Web has >something to offer that I actually consider useful (and no, I don't have a >stake in bibliofind!).If anyone has used this or similar services, I'd be >interested in hearing useful tips (or warnings). >Kathy Lou Schultz > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 05:20:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Re-Kora In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Oh yes--KORA had been in print for some time before the seventies to be sure, from City Lights--had one of the third printings of it for a long time, found at yard sale back in 67-- also SPRING AND ALL was reprinted by Frontier Press in 1970--basically a bootleg--though it is a very handsome edition-- --dbc On Thu, 20 Jul 2000, Tom Orange wrote: > bill berkson points out: > >Uh, um, hey! my copy of the City Lights reprint edition of Kora in Hell > >has "seventh printing October 1967" on the copyright page. The Scribners > >first edition of Creeley's Presences is dated 1976. Kora in Hell > >originally arrived in print in 1920, in Boston. > > in reference to michael magee's > >. . . I had in mind a comment of Bob Perelman's about WCW's KORA IN HELL > >arriving in print in the 70s almost as if it were the contemporary of, > >say, Creeley's PRESENCES (my example). > > mike perhaps also has in mind the appearance of IMAGINATIONS from new > directions in 1970, not only reprinting (once again) the text of KORA but > also the original preface (for the first time since 1920 i believe), as > well as the complete text of SPRING & ALL for the first time since 1923. > > bests, > t. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 06:02:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Sakespeare & In defense of Doug/ Baraka/Barthes In-Reply-To: <39.7c41ed5.26ac8176@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Re Olivier's Shakespearean productions-- in an interview conducted with John Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten) for the PBS series on history of rock and roll-- Lydon notes that his stage style was lifted direct from Olivier's Richard III--quick cut to film clip of Olivier--and there it is--Punk Rock, the Sex Pistols wd also highly recommend Bob Cobbing's 15 SHAKESPEARE KAKU from Writers Forum, London--new edition of which has section of "what they say about 15 SHAKESPEARE KAKU"--with excellent review from "RAW NerVZ" by jwcurry re political writing/experimentalism--many of the great experimenters in form have been radicals politically--to the right and to the left and to Anarchism--Pound, Celine, Mayakovsky, Vallejo, MacLow, Berlin Dada, Russian and Italian Futurism, Vertov, Riefenstahl, Eisenstein, ad infinitum, ad gloriam--(sp)-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:20:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Poets ought not have other poets as friends MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am curious... How do you deal with friends who are bad - and I do mean a level of prosodic atrocity not to be believed - poets? One's so much more inept as you so as to be embarassing - especially when they are twice your age? Not ones who write poems in journals and know they are bad - but who actually call themselves poets and ruin open readings and waste editors time and whom you always see sitting in coffee shops with their notebooks that are always as strangely absent of words as the last time you saw them and who show you their poems asking what do you think and name drop famous dead poets and you try to be kind and you try to be cruel and you try to remain silent but nothing seems to work? Otherwise - they are usually fine people. That's why they are my friends. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:20:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: Re: bibliofind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Caveat emptor: I went to the bibliofind site and found the book I was looking for at two locations, and the site's software forced me to fill out a form for both locations, so I am not sure if I have bought two books or one. I'll see soon enough. When I wrote back to the site I was reminded that Bibliofind is only a service for putting buyers and sellers together and that I need to contact the prospective sellers about my possible purchase. Burt Kimmelman -----Original Message----- From: kathylou@ATT.NET [mailto:kathylou@ATT.NET] Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 1:51 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: bibliofind Glad to share the love! The book I ordered only cost me 9 bucks including postage -- well worth it after searching for months. After 20 years you DESERVE that book! Best, Kathy Lou ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:47:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: albany reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albany...Saturday, July 29th at Cafe Web, 1040 Madison Avenue 9:00 PM Gerald Schwartz reading, in conjunction with a performance of the ensemble FAKING TRAINS ([in] formally SOLOMONS RAMA DA)... B.Y.O.B. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:11:32 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: new magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elixir PO Box 22426 Robbinsdale, MN 55422-2426 The inaugural issue of Elixir is now accepting submissions of poetry and fiction. Elixir is a high quality perfect bound publication promoting excellence in new literature. Guidelines: Always include an SASE. If you wish the manuscript recycled and only a reply returned, please indicate. The author's name and address should appear in the upper left hand corner of each submission. Absolutely no e-mail, fax, or other electronic submissions. All submissions should be TYPED on 8 1/2x11 paper, one side of the page. Use a 12-14 point font . Prose should be double-spaced. No bios should be included. No illustrations or photographs will be considered. Please send only one story at a time. There is no page limit. Please send no more than five poems at a time. There is no line limit. Simultaneous submissions are discouraged, but since we know that almost everyone does it anyway, we would appreciate being notified immediately if work under consideration at Elixir is accepted elsewhere. Do not send your only copy. Send your best work to: Elixir PO Box 22426 Robbinsdale, MN 55422-2426 Editor: Dana Curtis Elixir Press announces its First Annual Poetry and Fiction Awards Elixir is sponsoring two poetry contests and a fiction contest. The first is open only to poets who have not yet published a book. The second is open to all poets who have published at least one book of poetry. The fiction contest is for a collection of short stories and is open to everyone regardless of publication history. Winners will receive $2000 and publication by Elixir Press. General Guidelines: Manuscripts should be typed in a 12- to 14-point font, on one side of the page and on standard paper. No dot matrix unless letter quality. Send a business size SASE for reply only. Manuscripts cannot be returned. Do not send your only copy. Do not send biographical material, photographs, or illustrations. Enclose a cover sheet stating the name of the manuscript and the author's name, address, and telephone number. Also include a cover sheet with the title alone. Only work written in English can be accepted. No translations. Manuscripts must be paginated with table of contents and acknowledgments pages. Please indicate on the outside of the envelope which contest you are entering. Simultaneous submissions are welcome, so long as Elixir is notified immediately if a manuscript is accepted elsewhere. Short Story contest This competition is for short story collections of 150-300 pages. All writers are eligible. All work should be double-spaced. Enclose a page listing all prior book publications, if any. Poetry contests: Manuscripts must be at least 48 pages in length. If entering the second contest, please include a page listing all prior book publications. A full-length book of poetry is defined as a book of 48 pages or longer printed in an edition of at least 500. The entry fee for all contests is $20. The postmark deadline for all contests is October 2, 2000. Submit to: Elixir, PO Box 22426, Robbinsdale MN, 55422-2426 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:43:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: among demons, births MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - among demons, births half away among demons. egard. head of s of them! rought f from caring! ne ! no such thing! escaped, we ce at all! , y, how long! re thousands wa! t the universe! by thin wires orn and mournful wire universe ires of hosen, art cked tama to the park he noise pe. s nderstorms ed and very long on. upon the when?! diations away emons. ard. f them! ught g! ing! we all! ! ands ! wires nful e es f sen, and t ed tama e park . stakes torms long the when?! ons y . d. of ! ht ! ng! we ! , ! ds wa! ! ful of n, art rk se pe. s s ong he ?! ons 8 sed 's/............//g' dilate > fecund 11 sed 's/.................//g' dilate >> fecund 15 sed 's/.........................//g' dilate >> fecund 18 sed 's/.......//g' dilate >> fecund 21 sed 's/....//g' dilate >> fecund __ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:02:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Balestrieri, Peter" Subject: Re: For Tony G and George B: Frim Fram Sauce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Tony and George (and friends), Sorry to omit the only important part of my earlier message. Here's the item about Frim Fram, Kroll and Nat King Cole: from JohnnyO There's a good reason that you couldn't decipher that part...because it's gibberish. In Nat's original version, there's a tip-off sentence that explains the whole thing. Here first is Diana's version, followed by Nat's. Each of them, by the way, uses a different gibberish line in the song, so each has been given the one specific to that performer. Having said that, I must, in all fairness, give equal time to those who have a dissenting opinion. Quoting from the liner notes to Mosaic's 18-CD set, "Some older musicians contend that, while the title made as much sense as "Shoo Fly Pie," in fact there really was an "Ausen" bakery that served something called "chefafa" on the side." Personally, I wonder more about what those "older musicians" had been drinking than what they had been eating...especially in light of Nat's final line. There was a wealth of material to choose from for Nat, this being one of his most-recorded songs, including a V-disc recording and at least 3 live versions that have been issued on CD alone, ALL of which include the final line that explains the whole thing. I went with the domestically-released studio version for the transcript. Anyway, it's a shame to realize that my dream girl has feet of clay... leaving out the joke without which the song makes no sense. But she compensates for it with a neat stride intro which sounds a lot like Fats Waller with a hangover...as opposed to Nat's own intro, which sounds more like Art Tatum on 'ludes...and I must say it's refreshing to know that this is the second lyric from Diana/Nat I've been asked to post here... Diana Krall Frim Fram Sauce All For You (A Dedication to The Nat King Cole Trio) I don't want French-fried potatoes, Red, ripe tomatoes. I'm never satisfied. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With the oss and fay With shifafa on the side. I don't want pork chops and bacon. That won't awaken My appetite inside. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With the oss and fay With shifafa on the side. Well, you know, A girl, she really got to eat, And a girl, she should eat right. Five will get you ten I'm gonna feed myself right tonight. I don't want fish-cakes and Rye bread, You heard what I said. Waiter, please, I want mine fried. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With the oss and fay With shifafa on the side. Shoo, doo-doo-doo-ya, doo, doo; Shuuba doo-ya doo, sheeya-did'n'doo. I don't want French-fried potatoes, Red, ripe tomatoes. I'm never satisfied. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With the oss and fay With shifafa on the side. I don't want pork chops and bacon. That won't awaken My appetite inside. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With the oss and fay With shifafa on the side. Now you know, Girls. we really got to eat, And you know we should eat right. Five will get you ten I'm gonna feed myself right tonight. I don't want fish-cakes and Rye bread, You heard what I said. Waiter, please, I want mine fried. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With the oss and fay With shifafa on the side. Ooh, with shifafa, uh, on the side. --- The Frim Fram Sauce Nat King Cole/The King Cole Trio I don't want French-fried potatoes, Red, ripe tomatoes. I'm never satisfied. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With feeossanfay With shifafa on the side. I don't want pork chops and bacon. That won't awaken My appetite inside. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With feeossanfay With shifafa on the side. A fella really got to eat, An' a fella should eat right. Five will get you ten I'm gonna feed myself right tonight. I don't want fish-cakes and Rye bread. You heard what I said. Waiter, please serve mine fried. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With feeossanfay With shifafa on the side. A fella really got to eat, An' a fella should eat right. Five will get you ten I'm gonna feed myself right tonight. I don't want fish-cakes and Rye bread. You heard what I said. Waiter, please serve mine fried. I want the Frim Fram Sauce With feeossanfay With shifafa on the side. Now, if you don't have it, Just bring me a check for the water. --- From: "Johnny O" tpeach@gte.net Regards, Pete ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:22:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Boog Literature Anniversary/Publication Party Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Come one, come all BOOGLIT 9th Anniversary and Baseball Issue Publication Party=20 Sat.August 5, 2000, 7pm sharp=20 the C-Note=20 157 Avenue C & 10th St. with music by Aaron Kiely and The Mendoza Line=20 and readings from Rachel Aydt, Anselm Berrigan, Ian Wilder, and more Info: 212-206-8899 =95 booglit@excite.com _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:02:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Brand new poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Celebrate the latest releases from Vagabond Press's Rare Object Series Brand new poetry by Peter Boyle, Pam Brown and MTC Cronin A reading, drinks and guaranteed conviviality Everyone welcome! 4pm, Sunday August 6th The Rose Hotel, 54 Cleveland St., Chippendale, Sydney Rare Objects Series available from Vagabond Press, P.O.Box 80, Newtown NSW 2042 AUSTRALIA at a mere $7 Aussie Dollars each. Write for the complete list. Contact Vagabond Publisher Michael Brennan at mikebrennan@rocketmail.com ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:45:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Fourfold MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (parts of this have been sent out elsewhere, apologies) -- tama d'eruza 1 beyond the curved jewel of no regard, 2 beyond these matters, caring of her intense and mournful form, 3 careful placing of stone upon stone, 4 chasing of stone by stone, 5 clouds of demons! hosts of them! 6 deeds! deeds! 7 desire of mass 8 dread, finality of stone within stone 9 driven to incomplete destinies and 10 enlightenment! no such thing! 11 entrance of stone, gating of stone, here comes one! 12 escaped, we remember our former substance. 13 fortifying myself against any form of spirit, 14 i defend myself against the hosts of demons. 15 i have fucked corpses, now defend yourself - 16 i will hold myself from caring! 17 in these matters, she dancing naked in a dress. 18 nothing! wa! wa! wa! 19 of no regard 20 of these matters, dancing with forlorn and mournful smile, 21 piercing of the tongue, penetration of quasi-vowels, and 22 removal of stones, one after another, 23 so that one chooses or is chosen, among demons. 24 spirit! spirit! - 25 the sublime is the moment when spirit breaks apart - 26 there is no enlightenment, there is no path 27 to the paths of stakes and palisades, all of them, 28 to the sheen of jewels curved of no regard. 29 traveling, she saw before her a massive fortification. 30 upon the completion of horrifying deeds 31 which have come between us, have brought the whisper of enlightenment - 32 within stone, form strives to escape. __ tama d'nala a thin wire connects this building to a site a mile and a half away among demons - and palisades, all of them, to the sheen of jewels curved of no regard. are thin wires metaphors for what will happen to my head beyond the curved jewel - beyond these matters, carving stone by stone - clouds of demons! hosts of them! completion of horrifying deeds which have come between us, have brought corpses, now defend yourself - i will hold them from caring! deeds! deeds! thin wires of dread, finality of stone within stone driven to incomplete destiny and enlightenment! no such thing! entrance of stone, gating of stone, here comes one! escaped, noise is information that makes no difference at all! her intense and mournful form of stone in stone, i wonder: how many, how long! if there is one thin wire, there are thousands in these matters, she dancing naked in a dress. nothing! wa! wa! wa! listen to the noise and learn about the universe! my head and my brain are connected by thin wires of no regard in these matters, dancing forlorn and mournful. our park: prospect park, is the center of the thin-wire universe - a very small part of the cosmos, connected by thin wires. remember our former substance. fortifying myself against any form of removal of stones, one after another, so that one chooses or is chosen, pierced clit, cock, penetration of consonants, team-spirit. the sublime is the moment when spirit breaks apart spirit; i defend myself against the hosts of demons. i have fucked tama. the first and foremost thin wire connects my house to the park - the longer the wire, the greater the noise. the whisper of enlightenment - within stone, form strives to escape. there is no enlightenment, there is no path to the paths of stakes. thin wires heat up my neighborhood with thunder and lightning, thousands of thin wires: think of them, each labeled and very long. traveling, she saw before her a massive thin wire in the stone cliffs. who would find her glowing. __ among demons, births half away among demons. egard. head of s of them! rought f from caring! ne ! no such thing! escaped, we ce at all! , y, how long! re thousands wa! t the universe! by thin wires orn and mournful wire universe ires of hosen, art cked tama to the park he noise pe. s nderstorms ed and very long on. upon the when?! diations away emons. ard. f them! ught g! ing! we all! ! ands ! wires nful e es f sen, and t ed tama e park . stakes torms long the when?! ons y . d. of ! ht ! ng! we ! , ! ds wa! ! ful of n, art rk se pe. s s ong he ?! ons 8 sed 's/............//g' dilate > fecund 11 sed 's/.................//g' dilate >> fecund 15 sed 's/.........................//g' dilate >> fecund 18 sed 's/.......//g' dilate >> fecund 21 sed 's/....//g' dilate >> fecund __ MAKE NOISE! BIND WORLDS! ah AH AH I JENNIFER DO RISE FROM STONE-IN-STONE! a tin wire onnets y ot to a par a ie an a a away an paisaes, a o te, oo to te seen o ewes urve o no rear. aon eons. are tin wires etapors or wat wi appen to y ea asin o stone y stone, o ous o eons! osts o te! cawa CAWA CAWA I JENNIFER WILL DO SUCH SPELL OF SLAUGHTER-CAPTIVATION! dre dre DRE DRE dre JENNIFER STONE IN STONE! ees! ees! o esire o ass o rea, inaity o stone witin stone o entrane o stone, atin o stone, ere oes osts o eons. oo i ave ue taa heh heh HEH HEH HEH I JENNIFER OF BROKEN-DEMON BIRTH! i tere is one tin wire, tere are tousans i woner: ow any, ow on! in tese atters, se anin nae onnete y tin wires kre KRE KRE KRE I JENNIFER NOISE-IN-WORLD! y stone, o ous o ous o eons! osts o te! la LALA LALA LA JENNIFER BURN-INTO-YOU! o no rear oo o tese atters, anin wit ororn an ournu oh oh oh OH OH OH I JENNIFER DO WALK THIN WIRE! opetion o orriyin ees oo wi ave oe etween us, ave rout or e, noise is inoration tat aes no ierene at a! orpses, now een yourse - oo i wi o yse ro arin! our par: prospet sora SORA SORA SORA JENNIFER STONE-IN-STONE! spirit! spirit! - oo te suie is te oent wen spirit reas apart spirit, oo i een yse aainst te osts o eons. oo i ave ue taa tama tama tama TAMA TAMA JENNIFER BROKEN-BORKEN STONE! te irst an oreost tin wire onnets y ouse to te par te oner te wire, te reater te noise te wisper o enitenent - oo witin stone, or strives to esape. tere is no y stone, o ous o eons! osts o te! wa WA WA wa wa I JENNIFER DO SLAY D'NALA, MAKE NOISE, BIND WORLDS! wen?! wo wou eieve a tin wire wou rin utant raiations y ea an y rain are onnete y tin wires ya ya YA I JENNIFER DO SLAY D'ERUZA, MAKE NOISE, BIND WORLDS! _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:22:32 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Open invitation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pavement Saw Press is starting a announcement list for all interested. Since we primarily publish authors first books as well as under-represented authors, this list will be informative and include newly published books, exclusive interviews with our authors, new poems, poems from the collection published, extended commentary on authors and author commentary, submission guidelines and deadlines for the journal and reminders about other deadline dates. We expect to send less than one e-mail a month. No personal information is needed or asked for. Simply send an e-mail to mailto:pavementsaw-subscribe@listbot.com and a reply message will be sent. Reply to the recieved message and you are on the list. In the next two months the following will be published: Simon Perchik Hands Collected: The Books of Simon Perchik (Poems 1949-1999) 612 pgs Richard Blevins Fogbow Bridge: Selected Poems (1972-1999) 128 pgs Dana Curtis The Body's Response to Famine 80 pgs Issue #5 George Kalamaras (Feature) 80 pgs If you have questions, please e-mail me at baratier@megsinet.net Be well David Baratier, Editor, Pavement Saw Press http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:21:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: COMBO website - #6 up In-Reply-To: <002601c11327$bcd65560$802eb8a1@derek> from "derek beaulieu" at Jul 22, 2001 09:29:32 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, just wanted to let you know that the COMBO website has been revised to include some samples from #6. Have a look: www.combopoetry.com Yours in forchristsakes, -m. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:09:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: chris stroffolino Subject: inquiry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to be re-subbed onto this list... thanks, chris stroffolino ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:33:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Poets ought not have other poets as friends In-Reply-To: <20000726142035.21413.qmail@web1104.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" oh there you go, michael a, drawing me out of lurk with a little review i composed only for my [cough] friends, dangling... best, joe --------------------- BOTH SIDES NOW Joe Amato A Review of _My Friend, the Poet_ by O. Jam Atoe Nagaram Press Salem, Massachusetts 58 pages; paper, $9.95 Propriety dictates that I observe at the outset that O. Jam Atoe, author of _My Friend, the Poet_, is not only a very good poet, but a very good friend. I have wanted to review O. Jam's poetry for a some time now, hence I am pleased to have finally been given the opportunity to do so. The 57-poem sequence that comprises _My Friend, the Poet_ interrogates the fundamental poetic conundrum announced by the book's title: to what advantage may a poet presume to write about his (or her) fellow poets, and their poetry, when such poets are also his (or her) friends? This theme is granted its most direct elaboration in the collection's first poem, "Bob's cousin": Bob's cousin Sam had a way with words. Was it Sam or his words that I liked or both? The apparent simplicity of these lines belies the undercurrent of doubt that I daresay we must all experience to some degree when in the company of those whose personalities are as congenial as their "way[s] with words." Indeed, as I composed this review, I found myself pondering whether O. Jam's poetry or personality was the more compelling. Owing to the well-groomed air of indifference with which he has greeted the various accolades obtaining from his published work -- and note the persistent insouciance with which he has propped himself before the public eye -- the man himself may be said to be something of a work of art. He manages somehow to exude the appropriate mannerism at every locution, inserting his fastidious carriage into the very quality of his conversation. His is a delicate intermingling of sangfroid and discretion, the latter particularly evident when counseling others on possible investment strategies. And in fact, as one might expect, one of the poems in this collection addresses with due restraint the self-eliding poise attendant to the conceptual charge of poet-as-poetry: The poet is my friend what he writes writing what he is. And again, here is O. Jam on the contemporary alpha-fiduciary convolutions of the global marketplace: Woods, or words? I said we're in the woods with words especially when friends are involved. So take your business elsewhere I said. The poet here is clearly echoing a sentiment long felt (e.g.) among the last century's entrepreneurial classes: when it comes right down to it, best not to make too much of a friend's words (poet or no). Where money (or other cultural capital) is at stake, all bets are off, for words on paper (a wood product) are no more a guarantee of loyalty than are words "said." That this necessarily complicates (of course) such assertions *within* the poem is a paradox regarding which attentive readers will no doubt derive many hours of contemplative satisfaction. I was most moved by the following, though, a passionate, perceptive gem from one who, I would venture, counts me as among his most demanding poet-friend-critics: Be a man about it I told her keep it to yourself and write it down later. The strength of these lines resides in their assignation of utter resilience to the character of the addressee, for whom words inevitably become a calculus of pent-up emotion, tranquilized through sustained recollection. (And good advice, at that: this review was conceived only after a self-imposed one-week exile from the habiliments of the writing life.) The book concludes on a resoundingly reflexive note, troping both on the latent double of "my friend" (clearly also the poet himself) and the potential triple of the reader-reviewer, who may very well *be* a (poet-)friend: Get lost, friend. I want to be by myself. The ambiguous valence of "by/myself" suggests that the poet is remarking apostrophically both on the solitude requisite to artistic production and on the vexed notion of authorship that emerges from the collaborative imperatives of friendship. Talk about integrity. Thus does the volume augur a refreshingly honest relationship between a writer and his (or her) readers, whereby what is written is written to be read only by his (or her) friends, who are (it is to be hoped) poets themselves. This is a stunning collection, and lives up (like the poet) to the promise of those various accolades (as above) -- chief among which a National Endowment for the Arts fellowship -- which O. Jam has garnered since his graduation five years ago from the esteemed MFA program at Bent U. A younger poet who will no doubt be in the running at Yale for many years to come, I count this collection, as my friendship with this man, as among my most prized possessions. -30- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:55:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: FW: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) Comments: To: rob wilson Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I forwarded this to the list and it wasn't posted. I'll try again. Here' I''ve posted a bit more of the context: I can only add that Bruce Mcpherson of Tanam Press who has supported artists of their singular caliber and poetic syntax-- here I am thinking back to Theresa Cha before the Korean American takeover of her identity, ---------- From: "Tisa Bryant" To: UB Poetics discussion group , POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) Date: Thu, Jul 20, 2000, 7:33 PM Rob, >here I am thinking back to Theresa Cha before the Korean American > takeover of her identity What do you mean by this, please? Tisa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:41:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Flood: Fence Fiction Annex In-Reply-To: <200007270356.XAA13089@halo.angel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please visit our Fence Fiction Annex, wherein we present stories we don't have room for in the print magazine, novels in serialized form (including The Impossibly, by Laird Hunt), and monthly Months from a long series of Months by D.E. Steward. Plus narrative experiments by Samantha Hunt, Annie Guthrie, Ben Miller, and others. Flood is interested in narrative in all forms: the prose poem, the libretto, the novella, the straightforward. Flood is a "community" on the iUniverse site, and as such you will be asked to join our "community," Flood. Don't worry, we won't send you any newsletters. But we do invite your involvement as you see fit: Submit fiction for the site, reviews of fiction, comments on the work presented on the site, features for the site (interviews with famous men and women of fiction, essays on narrativity/narratology), and how. http://communities.iuniverse.com/bin/circle.asp?circleid=512 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:56:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Re: Poets ought not have other poets as friends MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let them do as they like and continue enjoying their fine friendship. ----- Original Message ----- From: michael amberwind To: Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Poets ought not have other poets as friends > I am curious... > How do you deal with friends who are bad - and I > do mean a level of prosodic atrocity not to be > believed - poets? One's so much more inept as you > so as to be embarassing - especially when they > are twice your age? > Not ones who write poems in journals and know > they are bad - but who actually call themselves > poets and ruin open readings and waste editors > time and whom you always see sitting in coffee > shops with their notebooks that are always as > strangely absent of words as the last time you > saw them and who show you their poems asking what > do you think and name drop famous dead poets and > you try to be kind and you try to be cruel and > you try to remain silent but nothing seems to > work? > Otherwise - they are usually fine people. That's > why they are my friends. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:14:23 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: rob wilson Subject: Re: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) Comments: cc: poesis1@msn.com In-Reply-To: <200007210233.TAA05440@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Tisa Bryant, That deviously embedded comment of mine about the "Korean American takeover of her [Theresa Cha's] identity" was nasty and out of place in a eulogy for Ursule Molinaro, also of Tanam/McPherson Press lineage. But what I meant by this was, historically, to the point: Dictee was published in 1982 by an experimental NYC press (Tanam) and for the next ten to 12 years was responded to in writing by an array of writers interested in its experimental tactics as well as its "Korean uncanny" force within American/international letters: writers like Michael Stephens, Susan Wolfe, Stephen Paul Martin, Rob Wilson, all responded to Cha in diverse ways.But, until 1994, with the publication of Self/Writing/Nation on Dictee as well as the reprinting of Dictee by Third Woman Press in Berkeley, the identity-policing scholar Elaine Kim had ignored this text in her history of Asian American writing, presumably as not 'realist' or immigrant-narrative enough in Dictee's focus on the multi lingual and multi-narrative. So this experimental-criticism intertext was 'laundered' out in order to claim the text for Asian American canonization, which is ok by me as I love and respect Theresa Cha in her life and works and textual 'afterlife' as well. Walter Cha of Kaya Press/Anthology innovation was perhaps the first poet/literary critic and canonizer to recognize the fully experimental as well as Korean diasporic identity dimensions of Dictee, in her interactive text DIKTEE of 1992 (indeed, Walter was a big influence on getting Elaine Kim to consider Dictee as a crucial text). Walter very generously supported an essay I wrote on "Falling Into the Korean Uncanny: A reading of Dictee" in "Korean Culture" journal in 1991, which is notable for the array of photos of Theresa Cha and her mother and family which her brother, John Cha, had allowed us to use to frame this essay (one is quite amazing, with Theresa Cha looking out and virtually interviewing and documenting the gaze of her readers; the ones with her mother are drenched in the pathos of a saintly love). Tisa, I hope this explains but does not excuse my nastiness about her "appropriation" by the Elaine Kim industry, where white writers are excluded per se by a priori skin identity (I have seen this done in the past): I find this latter attitude wrong politicaly and poetically as anti-mongrel poetics, though I can understand the will to create an image of subaltern and abjected Korean Americans as the exclusive one (Cha's class position, by the way, was by no means that of a boat person....when she came to US in 1962, and her Catholicism remains crucial to her trans-identity project of mythic self-remaking as Saint Theresa of the broken missives). basta, forgiveness, Rob Wilson On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Tisa Bryant wrote: > Rob, > > >here I am thinking back to Theresa Cha before the Korean American > > takeover of her identity > > What do you mean by this, please? > > Tisa > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:34:17 -0400 Reply-To: ggatza@daemen.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Organization: Vorple Sword Publishing Subject: Re: EPC in the News or: Grabbing a Piece of the Pie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9009D102025193DCD458ED79" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9009D102025193DCD458ED79 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hazah!!!! for 2river review and the fine work that Richard does. Richard Long wrote: > > The EPC is in fact an invaluable poetry resource, but the Chronicle article > makes it sound as if Robert Creeley's collaborations with Francesco > Clemente, Robert Indiana, and Donald Sultan are documents produced and > delivered by the EPC. They are not. These online collaborations are found at > the 2River web site at Daemen College in Amherst, New York. EPC is simply > pointing to them. > > ============ > 2River > 2River@daemen.edu > http://www.daemen.edu/~2River --------------9009D102025193DCD458ED79 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ggatza.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Geoffrey Gatza Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ggatza.vcf" begin:vcard n:$Gatza;$Geoffrey tel;home:716.837.5075 x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:4g4gatza@daemen.edu x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:$Geoffrey $Gatza end:vcard --------------9009D102025193DCD458ED79-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:09:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: FW: Poe House rally NYC 8/2: fwd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you are in NYC: A rally to stop the impending demolition of 85 West Third Street -- the last surviving Manhattan residence of Edgar Allan Poe -- has been scheduled for Wednesday, August 2, 2000 at 6:00PM. It will be held at the corner of Thompson and West Third Streets, one block south of Washington Square, in New York City. Preservationists and area politicians will be speaking out against the demolition, and the rally will be followed by readings from Poe's works. Please come! If the house is to be saved, it is critical that there be a strong turnout for this event. If distance prevents you from attending, please consider inviting friends or colleagues who live in the New York City area to attend in your behalf. Celebrities such as E.L. Doctorow and Woody Allen have already spoken out in support of the house (New York Times, Op-Ed page, July 25 and 27), but the presence of PSA members is essential to the success of this rally. Please make every effort to attend. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at (718) 852-5630. With kind regards, Michael J. Deas -- end of message -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:15:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Open Letter Launch: "The Body Chronic" (Vancouver - July 26) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'd be intersted in more information on the 'body chronic' as a poet and as a psychologist. thanks. tom bell Aaron Vidaver wrote: > > LAUNCH > > for a special double issue of > > OPEN LETTER > > "THE BODY CHRONIC" > > With Readings from the Writers: > > Mark Cochrane > Wayde Compton > Martine Delvaux > Erin Soros > > 7:30-9:30, Wednesday July 26th, > Graduate Student Penthouse, UBC > (Beside the Freddy Wood Theatre) > > free event > refreshments, cash bar, > patio with ocean view, five appliances > > Sponsored by "An interdisciplinary inquiry > into narratives of disease, disability and trauma," > and funded by the Peter Wall Institute > for Advanced Studies, UBC -- Life designs: http://trbell.tripod.com/lifedesigns/ index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/ =-///>>>``'|\_ SOULSOLESOLO <<<]]] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 02:00:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: From David Bromige In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >At 7:11 AM -0700 7/13/00, Kevin Killian wrote: >>>X-Sender: dcmb@mail.metro.net (Unverified) >>>Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:22:33 -0800 >>>To: dbkk@sirius.com >>>From: David Bromige >... >>>And it was fun to introduce Bowering to Maria Damon, and see fiction melt >>>before fact. Wish you'd been there, Rachel Loden. >>> >>>Bedtime. David > >fact melted? speak for yourself. as for me, my loves, my ardor flams --i >mean flim flams --i mean flames --more brightly than ever. rachel, we took >photos for you. it was fun. Hey, Maria. Watch it with those photos. I dont think that Rachel needs to see the ones with the vines. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:17:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Workshop at the Walt Whitman Comments: To: wwhitma@waltwhitmancenter.org, whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_df.7b5154f.26b2e1d9_boundary" --part1_df.7b5154f.26b2e1d9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_df.7b5154f.26b2e1d9_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: Askealicia@aol.com Full-name: Askealicia Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:13:58 EDT Subject: (no subject) To: poetics@listserv.acsu.buffalo.com, whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu, wwhitma@waltwhitmancenter.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 NEW! CREATIVE WRITING WORKSHOP FALL 2000 AT THE WALT WHITMAN CULTURAL ARTS CENTER WITH EDWIN TORRES, a wildly original and talented poet and performer, claimed by the Nuyorican Cafe, the Poetry Project and L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E schools, has been called nomadic as he travels among these fractions of contemporary poetics. In a review of FRACTURED HUMOROUS, Brenda Coultas says the reason he is claimed by all poetic camps is because he is an extraordinary poet. Indeed he is, as well as brilliantly funny and distinctive, and yes, a nomadic writer who has toured England, Germany, Amsterdam and Australia, in addition to conducting workshops in venues that range from schools and prisons to farms, festivals, and beaches across the USA. His publications include FRACTURED HUMOROUS, SANDHOMMENOMADNO, LUNG POETRY, and I HEAR THINGS PEOPLE HAVEN'T REALLY SAID, in addition to work that has appeared in numerous anthologies. His grants and awards include a Grant for Excellence in Poetry, the Poetry Fund, NYC, The Mentor Fellowship Program, The Loft, Minneapolis, MN, and the Writers in Residence Program, Sydney, Australia. THE CLASS: BRAINLINGO: Writing the Voice of The Body As artists we create our own communication. How we listen "affects" how we speak, how we see our language "affects" how our voice is heard. Where the senses meet each other is where poetry can begin. This workshop will be an active creative laboratory that will explore how we communicate by exercising the languages inside us. Exercises will be balanced by critiques. This is an active writing workshop for poets, performers, and anyone with an open mind. THIS IS AN OPEN REGISTRATION, ON A FIRST-COME, FIRST-SERVED BASIS. CLASS SIZE WILL BE LIMITED TO 15 PARTICIPANTS DATES: Sept. 16, 23, Oct. 7,14,21,28, from 12 to 2 pm. FEE: $100.00/ $80/members REGISTRATION DEADLINE: August 30, 2000 GUIDELINES: 1. Send five pages of writing. 2. A cover sheet with e-mail address and/or phone # for notification. 3. An SASE if you would like your work returned. 4. All applicants will be notified by August 30, 2000. SEND TO: Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center Writing Workshop 2nd and Cooper Streets Camden, NJ 08102 THERE WILL BE ANOTHER WORKSHOP IN SPRING 2001/INSTRUCTOR TBA Questions? call 856-964-8300 or write: wwhitma@waltwhitmancenter.org --part1_df.7b5154f.26b2e1d9_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:44:25 -0400 Reply-To: poeticresearch@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Macgregor Card Organization: The Germ Subject: looking for Brooklyn share MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone lookin' for lodgin' in Brooklyn, or have a place and need a roommate? Want to live with me, yes? Ok. I can quit Providence RI and move asap (Sep. 1?). I don't smoke, have low blood-pressure, a couple friends, am poet, and get along with you famous. Can't pay no thousand dollars though. Sorry to litter on the list, drop me a line anyone if you're like-minded, Macgregor Card macstarkcard@earthlink.net (401) 861-6046 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:50:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Berlin, 1923 (Baedeker) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Berlin, 1923 (Baedeker) Horse Races. Flat-races and steeplechases at Grunewald; flat-races at Hoppegarten (Ostbahn). Steeplechases at Karlshorst (Niederschlesische Bahn) and near Strausberg Station (Ostbahn). Trotting Matches at Mar- iendorf (tramway No. 73) and Ruhleben near Spandau. Chinese and Japanese Wares and Tea: L. Glenk, Unter den Linden 20; Gebruder Eppner, Charlotten-Str. 34. Horse Omnibuses. Special buses leave the principal theaters after the performance for Wittenberg-Platz. Night Omnibuses: Potsdam Station, Nollendorf-Platz, Auguste-Viktoria-Platz (Zoological Garden Station, Kaiser-Allee, Friedenau, Steglitz (from about 11 p.m. until 2 a.m.). Stettin Station, Friedrich-Strasse Station, Potsdam Station. Sing-Akademie, eight concerts in winter. Conductor, Prof. Dr. Georg Schumann. The Cathedral occupies the site of another cathedral built in 1747-50, the poverty of whose appearance even Schinkel (1816-17) was unable to remedy, and of the beginnings of a royal vault ('Campo Santo') dating from the time of Frederick William IV. (1845-48). The new building was erected in 1894-1905 in the style of the Italian High Renaissance by Julius Rasch- dorff and his son, Otto Raschdorff, at an expense of 11 1/2 million marks (575,000 L.). Its dimensions are: length 344 ft., breadth 246 ft., height to the main cornice 102 ft., to the foot of the lantern 245 ft., and to the top of the cross on the dome 374 ft. The material is Silesian sand- stone, with granite for the lower courses of masonry, while the cupolas, lantern, and roofing are of copper. An excess of plastic ornamentation and the restless effect produced by the cupola-spires spoil the appearance of this mighty edifice. Facing the Lustgarten, adjoining Passage 43, two rooms contain works in the Romanesque style. Room 44: Enamels from the Lower Rhine; church-plate from the abbey of St. Dionysius at Enger, in which the Saxon duke Witte- kind was buried, comprising the earliest pieces of Frankish work and dating from the time of Charlemagne (pocket-shaped reliquary); Gold ornaments of the Empress Gisela (d. 1043) discovered at Mayence (1880). Skating. In the Tiergarten near the Rousseau Island and on the Neuer See; in Charlottenburg on the Lietzen-See; at Treptow on the Karpfenteich, and in the Exhibition Park. Mourning Clothes: Otto Weber, Mohren-Str. 45. Schauspielhaus, chiefly for classical dramas. 1000 seats. Cafes. In the centre of the city, Bauer, Unter den Linden 26, corner of Friedrich-Str.; opposite, Unter den Linden 46, Victoria-Cafe; Josty, Bellevue-Str. 21-22, with terrace, Cafe Furstenhof (in the Hotel Furs- tenhof), Vaterland, Koniggratzer Str. 15-16, Palast-Cafe, in the Palast-Hotel, Bellevue-Konditorei, these last five in Potsdamer-Platz. Trains run between Alexander-Platz and Wittenberg-Platz every 5, on other portions every 10-20 minutes. On Sundays and, during the 'rush hours', on week-days the trains are extremely crowded. Weiss-Bier, the old beverage of the Berlin citizen: Landre's Weissbier- stuben ('Weisses Meer'; closed on Sundays in summer), Friedrich-Str. 83, 1st floor; Pomona, Mauer-Str. 66-67. Musical Instruments, Collection of, in the School of Music, Charlotten- burg, Fasanen-Str. 1 (Portal IV), open Sun., Tues., Thurs., Sat. 11-1. __ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:38:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: address request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear list, Does anyone have an edress for Stephen Burt? Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 00:04:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Remarking the Text (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Call for Papers REMARKING THE TEXT July 19th and 20th University of St. Andrews, Scotland Following the success of the Marking the Text Conference at Trinity College Cambridge in 1998, this conference aims to facilitate the ongoing discussion of textual criticism, editing, and the materiality of the text. The conference will explore the issue of textuality within the broadest parameters, taking in relationships between writers, publishers, printers, booksellers, and others and also attending to the text as a physical object. The conference will not be period-specific in its focus and will aim to encourage dialogue among specialists from a diverse range of scholarly fields. Topics for papers might include (but need not be limited to): * margins * lacunae * typography * textual distortion * markets * technology * underground publishing * handwriting * palimpsest * illustration * facsimiles * independent publishing * counterfeiting Abstracts of about 500 words should be submitted by 31 October 2000 to the reading committee at: Remarking the Text School of English University of St. Andrews Fife, KY16 9AL UK Enquiries to jg9@st-andrews.ac.uk phone: [+44] (0) 1334 462666 ****************************************************************** Dr. Andrew Murphy Direct line: [+44] (0) 1334 462664 School of English School office: [+44] (0) 1334 462666 University of St. Andrews Fax: [+44] (0) 1334 462655 ****************************************************************** * Homepage: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_se/murphy/home.html * ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 00:20:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Mudlark Announcement In-Reply-To: <200007281550.LAA07758@osprey.unf.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 26 (2000) Aidan Rooney-Cespedes | The Cure Aidan Rooney-Cespedes lives in Hingham, Massachusetts. In 1997 he received the Hennessy Cognac New Irish Poet award, and his poems have appeared recently in POETRY IRELAND REVIEW, BRANGLE, COLLEGE ENGLISH, NEW HIBERNIA REVIEW, THE ANTIGONISH REVIEW and METRE. A first collection of poems, DAY RELEASE, is scheduled for release in October 2000 from The Gallery Press. Spread the word. Far and wide... William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:08:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: What Kevin Saw at the Orono Conference 2000, Part IV (final installment) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I would like to propose three loud cheers for Mr Killian and his detailed and colorful account of the Orono marathon. What he left out was his own warmth and charm for the passing and collecting people who needed them. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 08:48:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: Pittsburgh info wanted--readings & bookstores In-Reply-To: <20000721192914.9805.qmail@web121.yahoomail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thank you. Anyone who seeks gnosis may katarke at THE CAFE DESCARTES at CITY BOOKS, 1111 S. CARSON ST., SOUTH SIDE, PGH, 1:30 PM on Saturdays. The Cafe Descartes is at the top of a spiral staircase off the beaten trail. (Proprietors, Ed Gelblum, a St. Johns and Chicago scholar, Duquesne philosophy professor, Chungae, Ed's wife, Tiffany lamp crafter, chef. ) Seekers will pass an academically ample wall of philosophy texts and then, by Chungae's espresso bar, a table amid the poetry/theater/etymology/French section. Michael Wurster, axis of Pgh. Poetry Exchange, Richard Dillon, CEO ELEMENOPE Productions, yak frequently. Others: Cvetic, boxer, detective, poetry organizer, Zepp, fresh from Vegas, Patton - she does the Erotic Salon readings, Chris Telfer, editor The Exchange, Frank Correnti, editor Pgh. Quarterly. Cafe Descartes is the only easily accessible kentron in the topographically tumultuous realm known as Pittsburgh, The King City of The Alleghenies. > From: john beer > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:29:14 -0700 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Pittsburgh info wanted--readings & bookstores > > Back when I lived in Pittsburgh (almost ten years ago > now) the best person to see re the Pgh poetry scene > was this cat Richard Dillon. Former secretary for > Burroughs, tireless promoter of others' poetry (as > well as his own), organizer of readings by locals and > national figures, and beat gnosis repository haunting > the bookstores and bars of the south side. > > Whether that's still true, I can't say. I'd tell you > to go to Chief's Cafe, too, but Tony the bouncer's > dead now..altogether a different city. > > Best, > John Beer > --- "Michael G. Salinger" wrote: >> Check out Sun Crumbs. They are a poetry presenting >> organization. >> http://www.suncrumbs.org >> >> Also, the Beehive is a pretty hep coffee shop where >> you may find out more about >> the poetry scene in pitt. >> >> m. salinger >> >> David Kirschenbaum wrote: >> >>> Hi listmates, >>> >>> I'm headed to Pittsburgh in 10 days and wonder if >> anyone knows about >>> readings and/or bookstores in the area. If so, >> could you please backchannel >>> it to me at this e-dress. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> David Kirschenbaum >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________________ >>> Say Bye to Slow Internet! >>> http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail ? Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:54:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: allegrezza Subject: call for moria and poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I looking for poetic theory articles for the next issue of the e-zine moria (www.moriapoetry.com). Anything dealing with "experimental" poetry is welcome. In the past articles have dealt with writers such as Watten, Bernstein, Derrida, Lacan, Silliman and Jabes; however, I am not looking for articles on specific writers. There are no length requirements or format requirements. I am open to articles in English, Spanish or Italian. w. allegrezza ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:00:25 -0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: 31 GRAND Subject: TRAFIKA LIVES Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes Trafika is alive and well. Curently our edition #7 is available by request. Our home (s) are in Prague and now in Brooklyn, at the art gallery: 31GRAND. www.31grand.com Trafika is currently accepting submissions for our next issue as well as participants for a reading we are having in participation with "Elsewhere" when 20 galleries will open together with events and performances to celebrate the new season. The Trafika reading will be September 24th at 3pm at 31Grand gallery in Williamsburg Brooklyn. Call for details 718 388 2858, check out the web site Trafika.org or refer to artwilliamsburg.com (coming soon) or BrooklynArts.com for details on the Elsewhere weekend of events when Trafika will host the reading. Melissa Cliver Managing editor Jeffrey Young chief ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 11:30:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Igor Satanovsky Subject: the Rush-Ins poetry collective MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings from South Florida! The Rush-Ins Poetry Collective was founded in the fall of 1998 by a group of young Russian/Caribbean/African/American poets and is dedicated to the exploration of neo-futurist/ avant-garde/ progressive/ performance/ experimental poetries in the broadest social/ multicultural context. Catch the Rush-Ins performing this fall at the Tobacco Road, a legendary Miami blues bar. The schedule is coming. Check out our Web home at http://go.to/rushins Two collections of the Rush-Ins poetry are available: "The Rush-Ins Poetry Reader" ed. by Igor Satanovsky & Allison Weingard KOJA PRESS, 1999, (includes poems by Stanley Gemmell, James "Janus" Henderson, Ric Leach, Nathan Levine, Lauren Rathvon and Igor Satanovsky) $8.50 (postage included) "an example" ed. by Nathan Levine Giovanni Press, 2000 (Kate Baldwin, Stanley Gemmell, James "Janus" Henderson, Mike Juengel, Ric Leach, Nathan Levine, Mike Magazinnik, Lauren Rathvon, Igor Satanovsky and Matt Tabin) $6.50 (postage included) contact me for info/details@ isat@aol.com regards, Igor Satanovsky, The Rush-Ins point man Putting South Florida on the map! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 00:31:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Flood errors In-Reply-To: <200007300401.AAA27111@halo.angel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Apologies to any who have attempted to accept my invitation (below) to visit Flood: apparently there's been a problem with the site for the last few days. It should be cleared up soon. Please bookmark Flood and try again later. Thanks. Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:41:54 -0700 From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Flood: Fence Fiction Annex Please visit our Fence Fiction Annex, wherein we present stories we don't have room for in the print magazine, novels in serialized form (including The Impossibly, by Laird Hunt), and monthly Months from a long series of Months by D.E. Steward. Plus narrative experiments by Samantha Hunt, Annie Guthrie, Ben Miller, and others. Flood is interested in narrative in all forms: the prose poem, the libretto, the novella, the straightforward. Flood is a "community" on the iUniverse site, and as such you will be asked to join our "community," Flood. Don't worry, we won't send you any newsletters. But we do invite your involvement as you see fit: Submit fiction for the site, reviews of fiction, comments on the work presented on the site, features for the site (interviews with famous men and women of fiction, essays on narrativity/narratology), and how. http://communities.iuniverse.com/bin/circle.asp?circleid=512 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 03:36:12 -0500 Reply-To: David Baptiste Chirot Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: A counterproPOEsal:: Poe House rally NYC 8/2: fw In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I beg to differ-- I think it is most appropriate that the last surviving Manhattan residence of Edgar Allan Poe, author of "The Fall of the House of Usher" and a writer in love with ruins, graveyards, tombs, crypts which could not hold the dead fast-- be demolished. The event could be made into a wide variety of performance pieces in the poet's honor, in recognition of his work's making of destruction, death, decay, despair and detection the stuff of whole vast wings of libraries: the short story, the detective story, hoaxed sci-fi accounts--among others. Poe lives in libraries, art collections, films, even an NFL football team, in hundreds of languages the world over-- and in the imagination, not in one among the many many places that in his transit he transiently occupied. The man had no real "Home"--no "dwelling"--he hated the city of his birth, Boston. ("Terror is not of Germany, but of the soul") There is already the honor of the NFL team and of the tomb in Baltimore--the city where Poe's brother died, providing in his delirious sea voyage narratives the materials for THE NARRATIVE OF ARTHUR GORDON PYM as Poe looked on, as later he watched his wife die . . . The tomb in Baltimore was graced on its inaugeration by the presense of two great poets: Whitman and Mallarme. And Poe died in Baltimore--death and poetry are intertwined for Poe-- Therefore saving a temporary place in NYC seems against the Poe spirit-- Rather, it should become an occaision for the recognition of its ruin--with any number of creative tributes to be worked out by making use of the event--the entombments among the ruins of many figures made to resemble Poe's dying characters--to the hieroglyphic scripts made in jumbled rock in PYM--to bloody heads emerging from rubble crevices--to small receptacles in which to wall in occultic black cat figures--or the walling in among small casks of Amontillado, using and joining together loose rubble, of a distinguished, disappeared personage--to voices issuing from beyond the tomb--to the letting loose of "the great balloon hoax"--to "messages in a bottle" floating in oil slicked puddles--among the gargantuan heaps of smashed brick, splintered wood, broken glass--to large scarabs planted gleaming in the sun--among treasure maps--and the nearby trees containing mock mantel pieces over which large stuffed ravens croak via audo tape--and the purloined letter, poised on a ledge-- celebrities being celebrities, begin to believe any place or cause they hang their hat upon to be their home-- in this case, to honor of the homeless wanderer Poe, youngest child of itinerent actors--it would seem more fitting to find a way to make the performance pieces provided and that of the destruction of the "last surviving Manhattan residence" of E. A. Poe be a means to be the first surviving residence of the homeless--and some means towards support of actors-- it's easy enough for the celebrities to lend a name--but how about investing in a home . . . for the homeless--or wandering minstrel-- it might be a poetic justice for the poet without a home, who couldn't even conceive of death as a place of eternal rest-- --dbchirot On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Kimmelman, Burt wrote: > If you are in NYC: > > A rally to stop the impending demolition of 85 West Third Street -- > the last surviving Manhattan residence of Edgar Allan Poe -- has > been scheduled for Wednesday, August 2, 2000 at 6:00PM. It will > be held at the corner of Thompson and West Third Streets, one block > south of Washington Square, in New York City. Preservationists and > area politicians will be speaking out against the demolition, and > the rally will be followed by readings from Poe's works. > > Please come! If the house is to be saved, it is critical that > there be a strong turnout for this event. If distance prevents > you from attending, please consider inviting friends or colleagues > who live in the New York City area to attend in your behalf. > > Celebrities such as E.L. Doctorow and Woody Allen have already > spoken out in support of the house (New York Times, Op-Ed page, > July 25 and 27), but the presence of PSA members is essential > to the success of this rally. Please make every effort to attend. > If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at > (718) 852-5630. > > With kind regards, > > Michael J. Deas > > -- end of message -- > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Maybe you should reconsider your desire to be friends with people that you can feel superior to? For me a friendship requires a certain level of mutual respect. Most of my friends are not poets but for me to be a friend of a poet I would have to respect his or her work. I can't be great friends with people in my academic field whose work I don't respect either, since this would be an inherent conflict of interest. Friendship requires a certain complicity also--the ability to laugh at the same things, including bad poetry. If you know a poet, you usually like their poetry and their personality for similar reasons, so you might consider why this isn't working for you. A friend of mine who isn't a great poet, but I like his poetry because it reminds me of him. But it isn't as bad as to make me want to shoot him. Perhaps you should move to a different city in order to meet a better class of poet. But enough facetious, unsolicited advice... > I am curious... > How do you deal with friends who are bad - and I > do mean a level of prosodic atrocity not to be > believed - poets? One's so much more inept as you > so as to be embarassing - especially when they > are twice your age? > Not ones who write poems in journals and know > they are bad - but who actually call themselves > poets and ruin open readings and waste editors > time and whom you always see sitting in coffee > shops with their notebooks that are always as > strangely absent of words as the last time you > saw them and who show you their poems asking what > do you think and name drop famous dead poets and > you try to be kind and you try to be cruel and > you try to remain silent but nothing seems to > work? > Otherwise - they are usually fine people. That's > why they are my friends. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:50:00 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: Jeff Derkson Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed But Could I Make A Living From It Jeff Derkson hole chapbooks Calgary/Philadephia/Vancouver unpaginated ISBN 0-9687436-4-1 Reviewed by Lori Emerson About “But Could I Make A Living From It”, Jeff Derkson’s most recent book since the publication of Dwell in 1994: quiet, undemonstrative, funny lines that can be situated in either a politicized world level with language (some Wittgensteinian/Marxist-inspired mix in “I’m three years younger than the term Third World”); or in an engagement with ‘maleness’ (“So-called maleness, so-called critical investigation”); or in an examination of human sexuality as it is inevitably inflected by and enmeshed in (no surprise here) the dominant discourses of the day (“Investment banking as a sexual term”); or in the strange American Psycho-esque replication of mid-80’s obsessive fashion-conscious self-checking (“‘A colleague of mine insists the color of a man’s watchband should match that of his belt and shoes: Who is correct?’”). Derkson’s own lines describe this mixing of discourses best: “A phrase or utterance stripped of its context as a timeless device? A slough of pop culture with its eternal returns.” There is also a permutational quality at work here in Derkson’s scan, from a number of different discursive viewpoints, of the shape and contour of our powers to word the world in the face of globalization (“The sun reflects off the triangular glass tower downtown and into my bedroom--I sprawl on this corporate light” “This ‘transaction’ translates me until I become my own ethnographic smear” “It’s not that the content is mine, but that it has been make generic”). But these tranformations, folding into and out of each other, also ‘scan’ centipetally and centrifugally what it means to write, to be a writer given what we now hold to be true--that language is everywhere already present and that ‘all the world’s a text’ “Do you put apostrophes on yourself--I’m in quotes.” “Waiting for the train, I’m thinking of you in italics, where the text meets the latex.” This leads into what’s most intriguing, no it should be ‘attractive,’ about his work, and which makes it very much not the usual interrogation of meaning, referentiality, authenticity: the way in which it brought me to think of the possibility that the de-humanization that the text opposes, a corporatizing flattening of the world, is something that such postmodern questionings (of meaning, referentiality, authenticity, truth, centre etc.) could work alongside very well--if not support or perpetuate in some way. I mean that, and here I’m trying to think like the philosopher Stanley Cavell, the grasping which is at the root of globalization is also at the root of an (western) intellect gone wild-- “Am I a priori to you or am I a priori to me?”--an intellect that begins to sound mad in its grasping search for certainty, and of course subsequent disappointment in the face of never being able to ‘know’ in any final sense. This is what “But Could I Make A Living From It” most powerfully enacts, the effect of which is, I think, one of animation--or re-animation in the face of a capitalist mentality; by capitalist mentality I mean those tones of transcendentalism buried deep in a thinking which, in its abundance, is becoming hard to muster the energy to comment on anymore, but which, nonetheless, in its reach upward and outward, continues to annihilate (literally and figuratively) the ground beneath our feet. Although “But Could I Make A Living From It” is far from being a deliberately ‘healing’ text, and far from claiming to be so, Derkson’s lines illuminate this condition and so begin the task of showing us the way back, and so begin to bring us back to life. “I aspire to a dental plan--to make myself human.” --Lori Emerson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:04:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: contact info sought Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello! I urgently need contact info for the following Scottish, New Zealand and Caribbean poets, and would be much obliged for any help! Philip Nikolayev _________________ Scottish poets: Kathleen Jamie Don Paterson John Burnside Robert Crawford Carol Ann Duffy New Zealand poets: Michele Leggott (address/phone number: she is not checking her email) Bill Manhire Gregory O'Brien Sam Hunt Hone Tuwhare Keri Hulme Fleur Adcock Caribbean poets: Kamau Brathwaite Martin Carter Frederick d'Aguiar (lives in London?) Dionne Brand (lives in Canada) Kendel Hippolyte (St. Lucia) Grace Nichols (lives in England) John Agard (lives in England) Lorna Goodison (Jamaica, possibly in the US) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:39:19 -0500 Reply-To: jbreed1@uic.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Breedlove MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SOUGHT: SUBMISSIONS FOR LX9 (Limes Times Nine). FIRST ISSUE APPEARS WINTER 2000; featuring: Rosemarie Waldrop, Barbara Guest, Joshua Clover, Michael Anania, Jennifer Moxley, Sterling Plumpp Contact:: LX9 1601 S. Michigan Ave. Suite 103 Chicago, IL 60616 biathanatosrawpower123hymntolifethisinwhichrusselledsonwheatbornbromiostarko vskybuenoviruslittledoorslidesbackkruderanddorfmeistersparklingpopsheburnsth eflyingpeoplesgreencoconuticecreamCRISPENskeinofloosesilkgiorgiochiricofishe rmanswifehassomejiveassslippersilgirasoleimpazzitodilucemaxwell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:27:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Ursule Molinaro (192?-2000) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" it's walter lew, not walter cha. walter's own Excerpts from Dikte for Dictee was to be included in the Kim anthology of essays, but was excluded cuz it was too "experimental" and didnt fit the discourse of the anthology. however, it is one of the most gorgeous books there is. i hope chax brings it back out into print. At 7:14 AM -1000 7/27/00, rob wilson wrote: >Tisa Bryant, > >That deviously embedded comment of mine about the "Korean American >takeover of her [Theresa Cha's] identity" was nasty and out of place in a >eulogy for Ursule Molinaro, also of Tanam/McPherson Press lineage. > >But what I meant by this was, historically, to the point: Dictee was >published in 1982 by an experimental NYC press (Tanam) and for the next >ten to 12 years was responded to in writing by an array of writers >interested in its experimental tactics as well as its "Korean uncanny" >force within American/international letters: writers like Michael >Stephens, Susan Wolfe, Stephen Paul Martin, Rob Wilson, all responded to >Cha in diverse ways.But, until 1994, with the publication of >Self/Writing/Nation on Dictee as well as the reprinting of Dictee by Third >Woman Press in Berkeley, the identity-policing scholar Elaine Kim had >ignored this text in her history of Asian American writing, presumably as >not 'realist' or immigrant-narrative enough in Dictee's focus on the multi >lingual and multi-narrative. So this experimental-criticism intertext was >'laundered' out in order to claim the text for Asian American >canonization, which is ok by me as I love and respect Theresa Cha in her >life and works and textual 'afterlife' as well. > >Walter Cha of Kaya Press/Anthology innovation was perhaps the first >poet/literary critic and canonizer to recognize the fully experimental as >well as Korean diasporic identity dimensions of Dictee, in her interactive >text DIKTEE of 1992 (indeed, Walter was a big influence on getting Elaine >Kim to consider Dictee as a crucial text). Walter very generously >supported an essay I wrote on "Falling Into the Korean Uncanny: A reading >of Dictee" in "Korean Culture" journal in 1991, which is notable for the >array of photos of Theresa Cha and her mother and family which her >brother, John Cha, had allowed us to use to frame this essay (one is quite >amazing, with Theresa Cha looking out and virtually interviewing and >documenting the gaze of her readers; the ones with her mother are drenched >in the pathos of a saintly love). > >Tisa, I hope this explains but does not excuse my nastiness about her >"appropriation" by the Elaine Kim industry, where white writers are >excluded per se by a priori skin identity (I have seen this done in the >past): I find this latter attitude wrong politicaly and poetically as >anti-mongrel poetics, though I can understand the will to create an image >of subaltern and abjected Korean Americans as the exclusive one (Cha's >class position, by the way, was by no means that of a boat person....when >she came to US in 1962, and her Catholicism remains crucial to her >trans-identity project of mythic self-remaking as Saint Theresa of the >broken missives). >basta, forgiveness, Rob Wilson > >On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Tisa Bryant wrote: > >> Rob, >> >> >here I am thinking back to Theresa Cha before the Korean American >> > takeover of her identity >> >> What do you mean by this, please? >> >> Tisa >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:20:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 10:46 AM 7/30/00 -0500, you wrote: >For me a friendship requires a certain level of >mutual respect. Most of my friends are not poets but for me to be a friend >of a poet I would have to respect his or her work. I can't be great >friends with people in my academic field whose work I don't respect >either, since this would be an inherent conflict of interest.=20 I have to disagree strongly here. I don't think you are always a friend of the *poet*, sometimes more of a friend of the *person*. I do have friends whose poetry I don't like or respect, and either we avoid that topic, or in at least a couple of cases (and this is much better), we simply disagree on that topic, and some good discussions have come of it. In fact, I think the utmost respect for a poet's work doesn't guarantee that I want that poet as a friend =97 friendship is something based on more than that, and can be a good deal more complicated. That said, I admit that I count, among my very best friends, poets whose work I love and respect.=20 c ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:28:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Judy Roitman In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From Mayhew: >Maybe you should reconsider your desire to be friends with people that you >can feel superior to? Ah, but maybe they are superior in so many other ways. Love to all. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Judy Roitman | "Whoppers Whoppers Whoppers! Math, University of Kansas | memory fails Lawrence, KS 66045 | these are the days." 785-864-4630 | fax: 785-864-5255 | Larry Eigner, 1927-1996 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.math.ukans.edu/~roitman/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:50:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: more contact info sought Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello! I urgently need contact info for the Irish poet, Medbh McGuckian. Please help! Philip ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:49:34 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: Re: Jeff Derksen review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed How embarrassing, I spelt Jeff Derksen's name wrong--please forgive my gaff and please change from 'Derksen' to 'Derksen.' Lori Emerson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:59:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: No Subject MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/00 11:47:04 AM, chax@THERIVER.COM writes: << At 10:46 AM 7/30/00 -0500, you wrote: >For me a friendship requires a certain level of >mutual respect. Most of my friends are not poets but for me to be a friend >of a poet I would have to respect his or her work. I can't be great >friends with people in my academic field whose work I don't respect >either, since this would be an inherent conflict of interest. I have to disagree strongly here. I don't think you are always a friend of the *poet*, sometimes more of a friend of the *person*. >> Wow! Poetry and academic tsk tsk as litmus tests for friendship! That's a new one. "You've been generous with me, my wife, my kids--always there when I need you--but I don't like your poetry. Bye." Hey! What happens when only every other poem appeals to us? Stay. Go. Stay. Go. Charles said it better, but I said it funnier. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:25:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: Fwd from Avec Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some visual art by Basil King is now up at Avec's website:www.poetrypress.com/avec. It can be found at the bottom of the homepage. Avec Books is seeking a zip drive and a 56k modem for the Mac. Used hardware is fine. A donation would be best, but the press is able to pay a small fee. A donation is tax-deductible, as Avec Books is a non-profit organization.