========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 06:51:05 -0700 Reply-To: MAXINE CHERNOFF Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: NEW AMERICAN WRITING #19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NEW AMERICAN WRITING IS NOW AVAILABLE. It can be purchased in its usual magazine format for $8 and seen on several websites: as JACKET #13: http://jacket.zip.com.au/Jacket 13 on the NAW website: http://newamericanwriting.colum.edu/current.htm as magazine of the month on Previewport.com: http://www.previewport.com/NewStand Contributors to this issue include Tom Orange, Clark Coolidge, Alan Halsey, and Michael Gizzi in a special Clark Coolidge section edited by Nate Dorward; poetry and prose by Clayton Eshleman, Cole Swensen, Lisa Samuels, Phillip Foss, Diane di Prima, Mong-Lan, Linh Dinh, Mark McMorris, John Kinsella, Paul Hoover, Peter O'Leary, Devin Johnston, Lisa Lubasch, Martha Ronk, Maureen McLance, Terence Winch, Geoffrey O'Brien, Spencer Selby, John Latta, Michael Ives, Kerri Sonnenberg, Andrew Zawacki, Philip Kobylarz, Charles O. Hartman, Jocelyn Emerson, Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Karen Garthe, Barbara Campbell, Barbara Tomash, Frances Padorr Brent, Susen James, Drew Gardner, Avery Burns, Kelly Holt, Leonard Brink, Greg Purcell, and Bob Harrison. $8 an issue. $21 for 3-year subscription. Order from NAW, 369 Molino, Mill Valley CA 94941 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:25:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Re: Nicole Brossard at Bluestockings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Poetics and Mr. Bowering of the excellent taste, My BAD! Nicole Brossard is reading THIS sunday at 4 PM at Bluestockings Women's Bookstore (see address below) IN MANHATTAN 212-777-6028 and the pamphlet (Le Cou de Lee Miller/The Neck of Lee Miller) will be there and free for the lucky firsts >BLUESTOCKING'S WOMEN'S BOOKSTORE >172 Allen St, between Rivington and Stanton >on Sunday, June 3 at >4 PM I get to every Nicole Brossard reading i can (about 11 to date), but the above address does not tell us what city she might be in. -- George Bowering crumbly & yours, Rachel Levitsky ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:33:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Eileen In-Reply-To: <003001c0e90c$51b88360$3353fea9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII yes, indeed! -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Wed, 30 May 2001, Ron Silliman wrote: > Really excellent piece on Eileen Myles in today's NY Times. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/30/arts/30POET.html > > Ron > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:46:54 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: confront mantra contra profond plat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit confront mantra contra profond plat (generative & repetitive for sound disagree) the dust are light you is not asleep eye are your lie you is not dead I false never try day hollow than night the dust are light I is not asleep eye are my lie I is not dead you false never try day hollow if night the dust are light us is not asleep eye are our lie us is not dead them false never try day hollow when night the dust are light them is not asleep eye are their lie them is not dead us false never try day hollow less night the dust are light you is not asleep eye are your lie you is not dead I false never try day hollow than night Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:01:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Allen H. Bramhall" Subject: A.BACUS Comments: To: Wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A.BACUS #138 now available: Richard Deming, _Somewhere Hereabouts_ Available June, 2001: Special Issue, featuring an excerpt from Lisa Jarnot's forthcoming biography on Robert Duncan. Since 1984 A.BACUS has been publishing single-author issues of experimental poetry. Subscriptions are available by sending a check, payable to "Potes & Poets Press," to: Beth Garrison, Publisher 2 Ten Acres Drive Bedford, MA 01730 Subscriptions are $30 for 1 year (8 issues) for individuals and institutions. Single issues are available via Small Press Distribution (www.spdbooks.org). Please contact Beth Garrison for information about ordering back-issues, or visit the Potes & Poets website: www.potespoets.org Recent & Forthcoming Issues Nov 2000 #134 Peter Ganick, _X_ Jan 2001 #135 Tsering Wangmo Dhompa, from _In Writing the Names_ Feb 2001 #136 John Olson, _Water for Water: Prose Poems_ Apr 2001 #137 Laynie Browne, from _Acts of Levitation_ May 2001 #138 Richard Deming, _Somewhere Hereabouts_ June 2001 Special Lisa Jarnot, excerpt fr Robert Duncan biography July 2001 #139 Jen Hofer & Melissa Dyne, _Laws_ Aug 2001 #140 Julie Cox, _The Ghost Hour_ Oct 2001 #141 William Keckler, _Hokusai Touches a Meme_ Nov 2001 #142 Andrew Joron, _Constellations for Theremin_ 2002 series (#143-150) will be devoted to translations. Dan Featherston, editor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:40:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: A Boston Poetry Marathon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this introduces A Boston Poetry Marathon at the Art Institute of Boston (at Lesley) (700 Beacon St. in Kenmore Square) Thursday July 19th - Sunday July 22nd, 2001 featured poets include: John Yau Franz Wright Beth Woodcome Karen Weiser Dana Ward Cole Swenson Tom Sleigh Prageeta Sharma David Shapiro David Rivard Wanda Phipps Nicole Perafayette Jeni Olin John Mulrooney Laura Mullen Fred Moten Elliza McGrand Lori Lubeski Lisa Lubasch Brendan Lorber Joseph Lease Aaron Kiely Pierre Joris Devin Johnston Brenda Iijima Fanny Howe Danielle Legros Georges Michael Franco Edward Foster Donna de la Perriere Maria Damon Sean Cole Jumper Bloom Frank Bidart Anselm Berrigan For information contact Donna de la Perriere, Jim Behrle, Joseph Lease at: BoMa@zensearch.net Free + open to the public. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:08:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: "Speech" as whatever corporations want it to be MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This story, from the LA Times, is too surreal to characterize. If you're of the mind that the Supreme Court's characterization of $$ as "speech" (and thus uncontrollable in elections) is nutsy, this will really make your head spin. The list that I saw this on -- net-time -- had a note that an op-ed piece had circulated in times past that computer viruses (viri?) should likewise be protected as a form of speech and that to block them was to censor. Personally, I preferred it when Speech was just the lead singer in Arrested Development. Ron ---------------------- Sunday, May 27, 2001 Corporate Free Speech Battle Is Escalating By EDMUND SANDERS, Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON--When the founding fathers established the right to free speech, they hardly could have had AOL Time Warner Inc. and AT&T Corp. in mind. But major corporations are increasingly casting themselves as 21st century Thomas Paines whose commercial pursuits are a form of speech that should be shielded from government regulation, just as anti-war activists and abortion opponents believe they should be free to express their views. In recent months, some federal court rulings have suggested that corporate America is making headway, particularly in the cable television, Internet and information industries. These successes are rekindling a debate over how far to extend free-speech protections and whose constitutional interests should prevail when citizens are pitted against corporations. Consider some of the legal questions: Does a telemarketer have a constitutional right to call at dinner time? Can Time Warner exceed government-imposed market caps because it has a 1st Amendment right to sell HBO and Cartoon Network to cable customers? Would a ban on the sale of Social Security numbers violate the free speech of credit bureaus, private investigators and information brokers? Critics lament that businesses are hijacking a cherished American tenet and using it as a tool to make money and escape government regulation. "If the founding fathers were alive, they would never stop throwing up," said Robert W. McChesney, media professor at University of Illinois, borrowing a famous Woody Allen line. "Once you say that the right to make money is protected by the 1st Amendment, you turn the marketplace of ideas into a junkyard. It's only a matter of time before the 1st Amendment covers everything." Business leaders exult in what they say is a long-overdue recognition that corporations have constitutional rights too. "In the United States, we still have certain legislation and certain rules that were designed for another period," AOL Time Warner Chief Executive Gerald Levin said recently. "Increasingly, through the help of the courts--that is, the reach of the 1st Amendment--we'll have opportunities." Marv Johnson, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, said, "Free speech in the commercial areas seems to be gaining in the courts and getting closer to the kind of protections that you see on so-called traditional speech." Lawrence Lessig, a constitutional scholar at Stanford Law School, worries that corporations are using 1st Amendment arguments primarily to stifle competition, circumvent antitrust rules and gain a stranglehold on emerging industries, particularly the Internet. AT&T, for example, cried 1st Amendment foul after Broward County, Fla., using an "open-access" ordinance, tried to force the cable giant to lease its high-speed Internet wires to rivals. The goal, county officials say, was to ensure consumers had more options in connecting to the Internet, not to interfere with content or viewpoint. But AT&T convinced a federal judge in November that the local law violated the company's constitutional rights because it forced AT&T to carry the "speech" of a rival--in this case, the other company's Internet service. "That's data transmission, not speech," said Andrew Jay Schwartzman, president of Media Access Project, which has opposed many of the corporations' 1st Amendment claims. Under the 1st Amendment, it's not unreasonable, Schwartzman said, to argue that the government may not block companies from expressing viewpoints that the government finds offensive. But it's a long way from that argument to using the free-speech argument to combat government rules designed to serve the public interest, he said. Time Warner scored another big victory in March when the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington tossed out federal rules preventing any single cable operator from controlling more than 30% of a market. The judges ruled that Time Warner had a 1st Amendment right to grow larger--that is, to "speak" to additional customers--and that the Federal Communications Commission had not demonstrated the government's overriding interest in interfering. The FCC had set the cap at the behest of Congress because it wanted to ensure a diversity of cable programming. The ruling suddenly threw into question long-standing ownership caps affecting other industries, such as broadcasting and publishing, even though those rules had withstood constitutional challenges. Viacom Inc. last month won a stay of an FCC order that would have forced it to sell some of its television stations to comply with the agency's broadcast ownership rules. (Tribune Co., owner of the Los Angeles Times, would benefit from the removal of rules preventing cross-ownership of newspapers and broadcast stations in the same market.) Companies say it's a mistake to view the free-speech rights of corporations as less important than those of citizens. "When you have an individual speaker, it's easier to put a face on the free-speech issue than it is with a multinational corporation," said Robert Corn-Revere, a Washington attorney who has represented cable and Internet companies in their 1st Amendment claims. "But you are still talking about bedrock 1st Amendment principles." Others warn that ranking free-speech rights is a slippery slope. "If you start chipping away at 1st Amendment rights, pretty soon you don't have anything left," said Richard T. Kaplar, editor of Commercial Free Speech Digest, a newsletter advocating the rights of businesses. Schwartzman said companies don't deserve equal protection. "Corporations are artificial entities," he said. "Yet they are being afforded speech rights as if they were living, breathing, voting citizens." When the U.S. Supreme Court first recognized the free-speech rights of companies in 1976, it afforded commercial speech less protection than traditional speech. Companies have been fighting to tear down the two-tiered system ever since. Privacy is expected to provide the next 1st Amendment battleground. Attempts to outlaw or restrict the sale of personal information and public records are being met by 1st Amendment challenges from information vendors, which say they have a right to communicate with their customers. Pending bills that would ban unsolicited commercial e-mail or prohibit telemarketers from calling during the dinner hour would violate companies' constitutional rights, said Jerry Cerasale, attorney for the Direct Marketing Assn. Even the requirement that a Web site post its privacy policy is vulnerable to being struck down as a form of "compelled speech," said UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh, who believes 1st Amendment protections should trump privacy rights. If the government is allowed to restrict the spread of one kind of information, such as Social Security numbers or public records, it might be tempted to try to restrict another type of information, such as newspaper articles, Volokh said. "The 1st Amendment is about stopping the government from restricting the content and flow of information," he said. That argument was pushed recently by credit bureau Trans Union Corp., information brokers and consumer database companies. They sued the Federal Trade Commission, saying their free-speech rights were violated by a proposed regulation that would restrict the sale of Social Security numbers and other data from credit reports. The federal District Court in Washington rejected the claim, saying the government's interest in protecting consumers' privacy outweighed the companies' 1st Amendment rights. Last year, the U.S. Supreme Court took a different view by letting stand a U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling that struck down an FCC privacy rule on 1st Amendment grounds. The rule required telephone companies to get customers' permission before using or selling their personal information for marketing purposes. Despite such rulings, the legal challenges to corporations' rights to free speech have frequently forced government agencies to back down from regulatory actions. FCC Chairman Michael K. Powell has said his agency will need to reexamine the constitutionality of ownership caps in light of the Time Warner case. In Florida, county commissioners abandoned their efforts to force AT&T to open its cable lines to rivals. "It has greatly undercut the power of the government," said former FCC Chairman Reed Hundt. "These decisions inhibit good policy and create delay. And at the end of the day, they defeat the very goal of the 1st Amendment by putting the free-speech rights of powerful companies ahead of the free-speech rights of everyone else." Copyright 2001 Los Angeles Times ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:10:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: SONG POEMS opening in NYC, 6/23 Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu, Realpo@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SONG POEMS LYRICS into SONGS into VIDEOS, POSTERS and ALBUM COVERS a project celebrating LOVE, MUSIC and CHANCE produced by Steven Hull LYRICS by David Bunn, Norma Cole, Robert Gluck, Paul Martin Henessey, Vincent Johnson, Soo Jin Kim, Camille Roy, Jim Shaw, Georgina Starr, Darcy Steinke, Lynne Tillman, Carol Treadwell, Elizabeth Treadwell, Paul Vangelisti, Jon Wagner and many others SONGS by Big n Yerp, Julie Fowells, Hannah Greely, Tanya Haden, Mandy Hoffman, Paul Jackson, Ariana Murray, My Barbarian, The Past Times Players, Terri Phillips, SAM, Molly Symns, Marnie Weber and many others VIDEOS by Juan Carlos Avendano, Michael Fitzgerald, Yang-Ah Ham, Mark Harris, Michael Mahalchick, Jennifer Moon, Jean Rasenberger, April Totten, Amy Vogel and many others POSTERS and ALBUM COVERS by Julie Ault, Naomi Ben-Shahar, Jennifer Bolande, Amy Green, Yigal Nizri, Kori Newkirk, Dario Robleto, Farhad Sharmini, Rachel Slowinski, Georgina Starr, Melissa Thorne, Tam Van Tran and many others INSTALLATION by Dante Brebner and FEATURING OPENING NIGHT PERFORMANCES by Big N Yerp, Eastern Front Orchestra, The Experimental Makeup, Michael Leon, Barry Morse, and others Saturday, 23 June 2001 3 to 9 PM Through 10 August 2001 Cohan Leslie and Browne 138 Tenth Avenue NYC 10011 212-206-8710 info@clbgallery.com Poetry Kids, My C&W song, "JoLynn", will be performed that night by Molly Symns, the fantastic Texan who set it to music. Also the show will open in LA next February at which time my husband, Paul Jackson, will sing his version of Michael Smith's "Still In My Underwear". xx Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:14:58 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Dunning langpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat. Maybe you could quote more of what was said because on the face of it it seems ridiculous to want anything to be boring. I did read of a report of a John Cage lecture that was held to be "boring" but I'm not sure about that...I wasnt there! But maybe the reference is to those aspects of things that are - at first sight - seemingly tedious _ that John Ashbery has referred to - those experiences we have waiting in ques or whatever. Thus it becomes a challenge of the person or witer or poet or whoever is in this "boring" situation, to turn it around, to not let it make you angry or whatever...but that's probably not what you were talking about. Poetry - the same poetry - can seem to be boring to one person and not another. I'm not interested in Shakespeare's sonnets: I find them boring. Although I liked them as a teenager at school...or the ones we studied...but I've no doubt if I attended lectures by someone who was a great enthusiast for Bill's sonnets I would become "unbored". If I were to set out now to write something meaningful in poetry or whatever you call it, my aim would not be to bore people! But maybe I wouldnt be interested in writing what is "beautiful" or what is _perceived_ to be poetic: thus some people will find it boring. Maybe everyone, who cares? To set out to be uninteresting per se might be a project, or a strategy, to avoid "over the top" lush stuff...that (the lush stuff)I like doing myself. A kind of check or discipline. I dont think a poet can control a reader's response though. Your kind of putting the cart before the horse. The question is which poems are you looking at and why dont you like them. There's a poet I know whose work is sub lang poetry but I simply cant read it: as you say, it bores, or to say it better, I cant engage with the writer's work. I conclude: 1. I dont get it. or 2. It is simply bad poetry. 3. At the moment I'm not in the right "space" to appreciate it. So I leave it aside. I still read eg Ron Silliman etc but I can enjoy as they call it some of the more "conventional" poets eg in Fence...poets who are highly intelligent but not "experimental"... in other words...variety is the spice of life! I dont want to be saying all the time: "Should I like this poetry? Oh gosh, Charles Bernstein would say that this poem is crap. Oh bother I cant read that." No. I happen to be reading that gentleman's essay his book on poetics, not because I have to, but because I'm curious about it...but reading Bernstein or whatever doesnt commit me to liking or agreeing with everything or anything he says or any other so-called Langpo or anyone. I think poets are too much individualists eg for the author to diseappear for example (not that Bernstein neccessarily is in favour of that)) and I dont read philosophy much. I try to think for myself and i write for myself. Probably why I'm hardly published but its good fun for me. I agree with the idea of resistivity but there's a limit for me: some stuff i find too "difficult" or too simplistic. Sounds as though I like to have my cake and eat it ... to use another cliche. Another direction maybe not exhausted is David Antin's "talk poems" which BEGIN the process of an interchange between the author and the audience. I suspect by the way, that many Langpos (and Official Verse people or whatever you pigeon hole them as) never really want much feedback. Cage's poem/composition (music) based on Finnegan's Wake was an attempt in that direction.(The lectures he held as reported in Radical Artifice by Marjorie Perloff.) Maybe one day we will see a total participation of the audience...its been done somewhat. I had a short stint teaching how to write poetry...it was fairly "loose" so I tried to get the people to make the poem. I also asked questions. I was asked questions but i could only say what I knew...but people are still habituated to being lectured to.But Ididnt reallly want that (part of me the ego-child did tho!) What iconsciously wanted was for tose people to braqnch out and say: to hell with convention, I'll do MY own thing...to hell with Richard Taylor....the teacher succeeds by putting him'herself out of a job! Becomes a motivator..rather than a fact Gradgrinder. Children , by contrast, love to take over once they are given reign. Their inhibitions to conform are less set in concrete: and a good teacher encourages self sufficiencey and the ability to question and research. Contrast the old bourgeious (I can never spell that word) Dickensian ways (not that Dickens was in favour he hated them and rightly satirised them in Nicholas Nickelby and Hard Times etc) or even some teachers nowdays. If the poetic practice (cf somwhat this list) encourages people to be self starters and "indivdualists" without being ugly egotists: that is to be quietly proud of one's work regardless of its reception, to enter into discussions, to be open, compassionate...and so on. I dont think you should knock some of the great aspects of American culture: they should be pursued and the terrible things attacked. We may be poetic "geniuses" but, well Roger Horrocks (who by the way has just written a biography of Len Lye (artist poet and experimental film maker) the NZ-American-French-British (but born here in NZ and fundamentally a NZr)) told me one day how he had met Zukofsky. He said of him that he was a very nice man. He means, and Roger is a very good man, a good man as far as he could see at the time. OK Z had his faults no doubt...whatever. Let's love ourselves in order to love others: I think that, without the accompanying sentiment, as Lynn Heijinian says in an interview: the Langpo movement was a utopian project. That's a start. The whole movement had many ideas and there are many "offshoots"...look, its better for me, I'm RIGHT on the outside. NOBODDY love's me!! (Except my children I hope.) I'm on a very low income, have very little published, very few close friends in lit circles at all, let alone Langpo card carryers...it can all go to fuck except that I'm very interested in literature and art (as well as other things of course). The guys who got tossed off the list should have an input (as long as they dont go crazy abusing everyone..).but apart from that we should open things up. I know there is a tendency for any "movement" to form its coteries and cliques...Kleinzahler was over here (1992) (Auckland) and that was one of his complaints about Langpo (which I think he hated - from memory). I have to admit that I find his work rather obscure: I can get into Andrews or the others more easily...besides which Andrews I find very funny. But some of Kleinzahler's stuff was good. But its better to be on the outside and "do one's own thing" as far as that is possible.Maybe good top keep away from the "politics" of it all. Go your own way. But dont endorse "boring" poetry or writing: sounds like an oxymoron...of course you dont like it because you are bored by it! Its the reason I dont read much philosophy eg the modern French guys that Bowering likes so much. They write a lot of long-winded crap. But that's my opinion...maybe not all of them. Just some thoughts of a dry brain in a dry time. Richard Taylor.PS It sounds as though you are already "going your own way" so forgive that comment..I think you know the import of it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:44 AM Subject: Re: Dunning langpo > Richard, > > I am sorry for the delayed reply. You quoted me wrongly. I did not say > "inherently boring." I said a language poet claimed (his words): "poetry can > be legitimately boring." That is, I suppose, boredom (even by an intelligent > reader) is a right of the poet. Well, I don't think so. > > Murat > > > > In a message dated 5/22/01 12:41:29 PM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > >Murat. Usually I'm suspicious of people who "wipe" language poetry (as > >if > > > >that movement can be easily delineated. They either havent studied it too > > > >strongly or they are very reactionary and old fashioned. I think that by > > > >"inherently boring" you could just as well be referring to John Ashbery > >who > > > >comments in various places how he is interested in those moments in which > >we > > > >are waiting for things...literally waiting in a bus que. It seems his > > > >writing involves simultaneously an attack and a celebration of and on > > > >popular culture and art, politics, modern life and so on. But these moments > > > >are still interesting and so the so called language writers are dealing > >I > > > >think (in some ways more directly and deliberately) with what were once > > > >ostensibly "boring subjects". I'm currently reading "Radical Artifice" > >by > > > >Marjorie Perloff which shows an example of Bernstein's work which is very > > > >clever and also very deliberate but far from boring. Mind you you might > >find > > > >that writing so. I fnd that its like music: sometimes I want to listen > >to a > > > >contemporary composer, or jazz, or whatever, but my core listening is Bach. > > > >But then suddenly I dont want to know about Bach after weeks of listening > >to > > > >him...currently I cant listen to Beethoven. I find it too intrusive...or > >any > > > >popular music or jazz. But that's me and sometimes I want to read "New > > > >Yorker poems" and cant read any contemporary poetry or "avant garde" poetry > > > >or what you will. I see it as its possible for anyone do do whatever they > > > >like as long as they dont restrict others. (So I'm mellowing, or am I > > > >getting dotty?!)...its not as simple as that, but that's how I am. I think > > > >that if a writer has no talent (or do we all have some talent?does that > > > >matter?) it doesnt matter what "school" they belong to or what literary > > > >philosophy they have. (But maybe I'm wrong on that as well.) I'm no more > >for > > > >or against the language poets than I'm for or against eg Keith Douglas > >whom > > > >I actually consider (from the point of view of pure talent) to be one of > >the > > > >greatest poets who ever lived.But hardly "innovative" per se. > > > > But some music is "difficult" to listen to but rewards work or at least > > > >attention by the listener. Other more contemporary things encourage or > > > >require action by the listener/participant...a similar parallel maybe > > > >exisists in the lit world. I will concede that some writers I find too > > > >resistive. I just put them aside and think that maybe one day I'll "get > > > >it": but it doesnt matter, there's a lot to read. > > > > There's a vast range of interesting writing out there and some highly > > > >talented writers of all skills and ilks. In fact, in my criticism of the > >New > > > >Formalists, I think I understand the why of their torment. Its possible > >they > > > >have some very bright people amongst their group or whoever they are..but > > > >the NF thing doesnt interest me except insofar as in the questions it > > > >prompts. > > > > But as to verbiage: that's what we humans do. We talk! Some talk a lot, > > > >some a little: it just depends on which recipe you got cooked by. Regards, > > > >Richard Taylor. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" > > > >To: > > > >Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 12:56 AM > > > >Subject: Re: Dunning langpo > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:13:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Boring Intelligence In-Reply-To: <9e.150a647d.2843f68e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:44 PM 5/28/01 -0400, you wrote: >Richard, > >I am sorry for the delayed reply. You quoted me wrongly. I did not say >"inherently boring." I said a language poet claimed (his words): "poetry can >be legitimately boring." That is, I suppose, boredom (even by an intelligent >reader) is a right of the poet. Well, I don't think so. > >Murat I think it's important to keep in mind that this claim for a useful or poetic boredom predates and is hardly limited to LANGUAGE poets -- I recall, for one of many examples, an interview with Robert Kelly in which he spoke of having learned from reading Enslin that a certain sort of boredom in the long poem could have value -- this was in the context of his writing of THE LOOM, if I remember -- " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 13:50:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Fouhy Subject: June Poetry Readings Comments: To: Dick Attanasio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit These are some extra special poetry readings! Don't miss this. Also....POETRY CAFE'S 6th ANIVERSARY SPECIAL JUNE 11th! call for more info: 914 241 6922 ext 17 Viki Akiwumi and Sekou Sundiata Creative Arts Café Poetry Series Anniversary Poetry Performance Artists and OPEN MIKE Mt. Kisco, NY: The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series at Northern Westchester Center for the Arts celebrates its 6th year of offering the highest quality poetry to the Westchester Community with a month featuring the dynamic art of performance poetry. June’s award winning poets and performance artists include: June 4th 7:30 PM- Viki Akiwumi, theatre, television and radio personality and June 11th 7:30 PM - Sekou Sundiata, the outstanding New York City poet/song writer featured in the 1996 Dodge Poetry Festival. June 25th 7:00PM a High School Alumni writers night will feature graduates of Horace Greeley HS poet Matt Furey and poet/songwriter/composer Matt Kellogg and North Salem HS graduate Jamie Manning. A reception and open mike follow each reading. Viki Akiwumi has been reading, writing, and performing her work for over ten years. She began her professional artistry at the African Poetry Theater. At the theater, she had the opportunity to hone and develop her performance skills. Viki is a frequent guest poetry performer, reader, lecturer, M.C., and television and radio personality. She has written radio and television scripts on youth, African diasporic culture and spirituality. These scripts have appeared on WBAI-FM "Spirit Moves Show" and "The Black Family" television show. She has been a frequent guest on numerous radio stations, reading her work and discussing issues pertaining to youth and the Black Community. She has performed in and co-produced the powerhouse video arts showcase entitled "Nommo Vibes and and Ancestral Melodies." She has worked on location in Brazil, Cuba, Ghana, and Jamaica, and co- produced the arts segment of the Caribbian Magazine Radio Show on WKCR-FM. Viki is currently a consultant, workshop leader and educator. She works for Teachers & Writers and the City University of New York. She has given workshops and readings in schools, colleges, organizations and prisons throughout the east coast and internationally. She has an M.F.A. in English from Brooklyn College and is a Certified Interfaith Minister from the New Seminary. Viki is also the founder of Ancient Image Productions, a multimedia arts production organization dedicated to restoring and bringing to conscious understanding the contributions of Afri-centered people worldwide. Sekou Sundiata is one of New York's most intelligent and gifted poets of the African-American consciousness. Sundiata is a poet who writes for both print and performance as well as music and theater. He has recorded and performed with a wide variety of artists, including Craig Harris, David Murray, Nona Hendryx and Vernon Reid. He co-produced a series of concerts at the American Center in Paris. Sundiata wrote and performed in the highly acclaimed performance theater work The Circle Unbroken Is A Hard Bop, and his music theater work, The Mystery of Love, was presented by New Voices/New Visions at Aaron Davis Hall and later produced by the American Music Theater Festival. Sundiata received a BESSIE Award and two AUDELCO Awards. He was a Sundance Institute Screenwriting Fellow, a Columbia University Revson Fellow, and the first Writer-in-Residence at the New School University. Sundiata was a Master Artist in Residence at the Atlantic Center for the Arts, and he is a professor at Eugene Lang College. He was featured in the Bill Moyers PBS series on poetry, “The Language of Life”. His most recent concert performances include the Celebrate Brooklyn Festival, the Fringe Festival, the IAM Black Music Conference, the African American Museum Project at the Smithsonian Institution, the Crossing Borders and North Sea Jazz Festivals in Holland. As a recording artist, Sundiata released his first CD, The Blue Oneness of Dreams, to critical acclaim on the MouthAlmighty/ Mercury record label. His second release, longstoryshort, was released on Righteous Babe Records in 2000 . UDU a music theater work that he wrote (composed by Craig Harris) was presented by the Festival of Art and Ideas at Yale University and by the Walker Arts Center and Penumbra Theater in Minneapolis. UDU completed a five city tour in 2001, including performances at The Harvey Theater/Brooklyn Academy of Music, produced and presented by 651 ARTS. Sundiata and his band will do a national tour with Ani DiFranco in the Summer 2001. The series is made possible by grants from the New York State Council on the Arts and the Bydale Foundation. There is a suggested donation of $7.00; $5.00 for seniors and students. Coffee, cake and refreshments are included. The Creative Arts Cafe is located in the gallery of Northern Westchester Center for the Arts, 272 North Bedford Road, Mt. Kisco, on Rte 117, near Staples. For further information, call Cindy Beer-Fouhy, Director of Literary Arts at NWCA, 914 241 6922. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 01:01:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Miami, Florida, help needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Hi - apologies for crossposting. We're moving to Miami, Florida, the beginning of August (I'm going to be teaching new media in the art department of Florida International Univer- sity). Because of various exigencies, we're going to need help in finding a place, etc. We'd also like to make contact with people in the Miami area - If you live in Miami and have time - or just want to get in touch - please contact us back-channel, and thanks greatly - Yours, Alan Sondheim, Azure Carter sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:35:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Bassford Subject: Exoterica News Flash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This Sunday at 11 a.m., our host organization and good friends The Society for Ethical Culture, presents poet Barry Wallenstein and jazz great John Hicks in "A Conversation Between Poetry and Music", at the Meeting House, 4450 Fieldston Road in the Bronx. They will be celebrating the release of their latest CD collaboration, "A Measure of Conduct". For more information, call 718-548-4445. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 01:47:30 +0000 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: infoquery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Can anyone help? I heard a poet read this line 30 years ago: > >"I held your head in my hands as if it were a delicate bowl." > >It was my very first poetry reading. Took place at Ohio University ca. >1970-71. The poet may have been British. He had lank black hair, wore a >black turtleneck with gray jacket. > >I haven't a clue as to who he was. > >Anybody? > >Ron Antonucci >Hudson, OH Wayne Dodd has previously made public apologies for that reading. Do we really have to disgrace Ohio, yet again, by discussing the particulars in public? It's about as bad as the Devo scandal. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:48:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Loss =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peque=F1o?= Glazier Subject: Brave New Word -- New York Mime-Version: 1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those in the NYC area, an event of possible interest early next week ... The Brave New Word=20 SUN AND MON, JUNE 3 AND 4 @ 8 PM=20 American Letters & Commentary editor Anna Rabinowitz and Janet Murray (Hamlet on the Holodeck) host an evening of literature in the age of new media, highlighting the ways in which computers unite visual and literary art with contemporary technology. The program features demonstrations of emerging text forms, a panel discussion by pioneering artists, and a unique opportunity to interact with innovative Web installations, including the ground-breaking Text Rain by Camille Utterback and Romy Achituv. Speakers and artists include Andruid Kerne (Collage Machine), Jennifer Ley (Daddy Liked his with Heart), Stuart Moulthrop (Dance around the Planet), Stephanie Strickland (The Ballad of Sand and Harry Soot), Noah Wardrip-Fruin (The Impermanence Agent), and Eric Zimmerman (Sissyfight). Michael Joyce (Afternoon) and Loss Peque=F1o Glazier, (Bromeliads) director of the Electronic Poetry Center, are the evening's panelists.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:50:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Loss =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peque=F1o?= Glazier Subject: Brave New Word -- New York Mime-Version: 1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Sincere apologies for the previous incomplete versions of this message! This one should be complete.) For those in the NYC area, an event of possible interest early next week ... The Brave New Word=20 SUN AND MON, JUNE 3 AND 4 @ 8 PM=20 American Letters & Commentary editor Anna Rabinowitz and Janet Murray (Hamlet on the Holodeck) host an evening of literature in the age of new media, highlighting the ways in which computers unite visual and literary art with contemporary technology. The program features demonstrations of emerging text forms, a panel discussion by pioneering artists, and a unique opportunity to interact with innovative Web installations, including the ground-breaking Text Rain by Camille Utterback and Romy Achituv. Speakers and artists include Andruid Kerne (Collage Machine), Jennifer Ley (Daddy Liked his with Heart), Stuart Moulthrop (Dance around the Planet), Stephanie Strickland (The Ballad of Sand and Harry Soot), Noah Wardrip-Fruin (The Impermanence Agent), and Eric Zimmerman (Sissyfight). Michael Joyce (Afternoon) and Loss Peque=F1o Glazier, (Bromeliads) director of the Electronic Poetry Center, are the evening's panelists.=20 Performances take place in the Peter B. Lewis Theater of The Sackler Center for Arts Education, Guggenheim Museum, 1071 5th Ave at 89th St. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:31:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Readings--June 2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich New York City FREE June 2 Julie Carr, Sarah Cortez, Daniel Nester June 9 Victoria Hudspith, John Mincewzski June 19 Al Greenberg, Janet Holmes, Fred Marchant June 23 Jay Liveson, Jo Sarzotti, Peter Rojcewicz The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder, Director Patrick Donnelly, Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Jason Schneiderman, Co-Directors Martha Rhodes, Executive Director The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of Hudson. The closest trains are the 1-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. For additional information, contact Michael Broder at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:26:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Readings--June 2001 CORRECTED MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" CORRECTION--PLEASE NOTE--THE THIRD SATURDAY IN JUNE IS JUNE 16 AS NOTED BELOW. The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich New York City FREE June 2 Julie Carr, Sarah Cortez, Daniel Nester June 9 Victoria Hudspith, John Mincewzski June 16 Al Greenberg, Janet Holmes, Fred Marchant June 23 Jay Liveson, Jo Sarzotti, Peter Rojcewicz The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder, Director Patrick Donnelly, Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Jason Schneiderman, Co-Directors Martha Rhodes, Executive Director The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of Hudson. The closest trains are the 1-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. For additional information, contact Michael Broder at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 07:53:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Mckinney Subject: Contact for Jorie Graham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have an e-mail address for Jorie Graham? Please backchannel. J.M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:25:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Eileen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron Silliman wrote: > Really excellent piece on Eileen Myles in today's NY Times. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/30/arts/30POET.html > > Ron ----------------------------------------- Funny. I bumped into a a local first generation "Language Poet" the afternoon of the article, and he had taken a resentment to what Myles said about her dislike for middle class poets who temporarily drop out, do the bohemian scene, and then re-enter their predestined professional class. This peripatetic "Language Poet" said he likes Eileen very much --- who couldn't?! --- but that he read that remark as an "attack" very specifically targeted at your scene, Ron. For my own part, I found the most edifying news in the article to be the musician-poet hybrid/collaboration scene that's emerging. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:10:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Digital Haiku project = BUSH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apropos of this Digital Haiku reiteration of "The Return of the Haiku,"--- I'm having trouble finding an in-print report on it, but did people hear about Usurper Bush and HAIKU in his recent Yale speech? I had expected there'd be some EPC commentary. It was very under-reported in The Times: "Bush, returning to the school he did his darnedest to downplay when he was Texas governor, jokingly blamed a haiku poetry course for his bungled English.". But I hear a radio report on it, and the sound bite was much more provocative. In essence, Ubu Bush said: Many of you wonder about my stammering,--- halting--- way of speaking. In fact--- the way that I talk--- is a perfect re-creation--- of the ancient Japanese poem form--- of the haiku. I thought it the right time to write to The White House on the subject of poetry, don't you think? to see how his team would respond to inquiries after his plans to serve his experimentalist poetry citizens. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE PUBLIC ASSASINATION OF PRESIDENT McVEIGH HAS BEEN RE-SCHEDULED TO JUNE 11th. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:09:56 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: A Chide's Alphabet Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, ImitaPo , Britpo , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By way of a follw up this, and with a considerable harrumph, but 'A Chide's Alphabet' is now too a web presence, it can be found at www.chidesplay.8m.com . And includes a very good photo of me on the contact page. It will continue though to be available as an RTF file. best to y'all David Bircumshaw ----- Original Message ----- From: "david.bircumshaw" Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 7:53 AM Subject: A Chide's Alphabet > Announcing the debut edition of 'A Chide's Alphabet', an e-magazine > available freely from myself at david.bircumshaw@ntlworld.com . > > Issue One features poetry from the UK, Eire, the U.S.A and Australia, and is > comprised of work by Emma Lew, Ian Davidson, Candice Ward, Randolph Healy, > Robin Hamilton, Alison Croggon, Trevor Joyce and, oo-er, me. > > The magazine is in a simple .rtf format and should be viewable in any > standard word processing program. > > So back-channel please, if you'd like a copy. > > cheers > > David Bircumshaw > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:52:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Word Wrestling Federation Championship Comments: To: sabrams@firstclass.rit.edu Comments: cc: poetry.guide@about.com, poetryhosts@yahoogroups.com, marjhahne@juno.com, NSIELING@aol.com, jblum@wsfilms.com, arubin@interport.net, jen@poetshouse.org, gea1@is4.nyu.edu, lester@fallsapart.com, qlansana@hrw.com, galley@vcccd.net, Johnallison@aol.com, indran@state.gov, Amramdavid@aol.com, andydiagram@compuserve.com, hukloude@pipeline.com, pamela@artsms.com, cherylb2@hotmail.com, monsta@skybiz.com, taraba@nytimes.com, mo@cafemo.com, ab11@erols.com, daddybaby69@yahoo.com, ab499@bard.edu, mattnfodor@hotmail.com, snopantz@hotmail.com, cd965@bard.edu, sg745@bard.edu, Funfeel4@aol.com, jg645@bard.edu, kh384@bard.edu, randomdude@hotmail.com, holman@bard.edu, elizabethpirate@hotmail.com, jm467@bard.edu, rm479@bard.edu, geraldmoody@hotmail.com, michaelnicoloff@att.net, forgotten@purpleturtle.com, latinfavor1@yahoo.com, rodgers419@hotmail.com, crfame@email.com, es737@bard.edu, by682@bard.edu, andreiscosta@hotmail.com, sb663@bard.edu, MCEO@aol.com, jd534@bard.edu, twodutch44@yahoo.com, barneykulok@hotmail.com, rw923@bard.edu, ninjablades@usa.net, jn872@bard.edu, honeybeenyc@yahoo.com, wr727@bard.edu, hbarthel@juno.com, hollybassdc@yahoo.com, jill@puretaos.com, paul57prods@yahoo.co.uk, lkj@cwcom.net, bentoon@mindspring.com, theresabergne@hotmail.com, vb11@nyu.edu, bernofsk@bard.edu, bernstei@bway.net, eberrigan@hotmail.com, abierst@yahoo.com, ann.biersteker@yale.edu, toni_blackman@hotmail.com, BLEECKERTHEATER@aol.com, peter@blegvad.demon.co.uk, bloomfie@oak.cats.ohiou.edu, Bonairpoet@aol.com, jane.bowers@worldnet.att.net, Rawaircbt2@aol.com, pbrodsky@mail.com, la@tenderbuttons.net, bruweber@msn.com, jburckhardt@mindspring.com, nellymac@earthlink.net, ainsleyburrows@hotmail.com, Missbamboo@aol.com, keith_turnbull@banffcentre.ab.ca, brazen@total.net, edit@musicworks-mag.com, joolz@joolz.net, cliftonjoseph@hotmail.com, canela@canuck.com, swerve@cadvision.com, wordfest@cadvision.com, halc@westernfolklife.org, cxc8@psu.edu, dcappello@wnyc.org, kennyc@humanities-wdc.org, myscar1@juno.com, oditola@hotmail.com, Cawsma@aol.com, Lenoracha@aol.com, chinpoet@hotmail.com, lonejac@mindspring.com, Ychuma@aol.com, churchil@bard.edu, clausenj@newschool.edu, jimcohn@ecentral.com, ToddJColby@aol.com, wcoleman44@hotmail.com, Libitlouda@aol.com, connie@nytimes.com, godshine01@hotmail.com, PscookProd@aol.com, Julken@aol.com, creeley@acsu.buffalo.edu, poetnafri@hotmail.com, cc@megacorp.u-net.com, grace@mercury.hendrix.edu, lotlot13@hotmail.com, sheila@thinkvisual.com, md@knitmedia.com, stdoughe@mailbox.syr.edu, mdrapkin@drapkintechnology.com, CEPoetry@aol.com, aedgar@earthlink.net, edwinliz@yahoo.com, teiben@pw.org, jaeisenberg@earthlink.net, anne_elliott@ml.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Comps are available if you wish to come. BUT you must be in town. Love, Bob Bob Holman * 173 Duane Street #2 * New York, NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 * F: 212-334-6415 * holman@Bard.edu * poetry.about.com* www.worldofpoetry.org * www.peoplespoetry.org www.bobholman.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 01:03:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: LANGUAGE PROSODY: ex. 2 (DOCHMIACS) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Okay. The collective cold shoulder routine is working, and I'm beginning to realize from the emphatic non-response that I'm barking into the Duino wind with this one-man agenda about post-modern classical meter--- However, since I have been nicely back-channeled by lurker, I'll continue in my unattended rant (I'm beginning to see how Alan Sondheim must feel). Tinkered this brief (unimpressive and discardable) metrical exercise the other evening (below), on THE DOCHMIAC, a five-syllable Greek "foot": _ / / _ _ / What I hoped my earlier "Well-Wishers" posting would demonstrate --- by the relative inaudibility of its rhythm, as opposed to New Formalist buh-BUM-buh-BUM iambics --- is that "true" classical meter is subtly nuanced and varied in a way that keep it quite suited to progressives. Dicta: New Formalism is misrepresenting the very models they point to. Metrics has been re-politicized by their misappropriation of Athenian democracy. Neo-classicism is entirely a Modernist legacy (H.D., Pound, "Kora in Hell," Martha Graham, Elliot Carter's "The Minotaur" and "Syringa," Isadora Duncan...!). An ear trained to hear minute shifts of cadence is better prepared to catch the hesitancies and falsities of politicized language. Go Greek. The five verses below are "dochmiac dimeter," two dochmiacs per line. (Classical metrics is fun obfuscation for Langpo-lovin' obscurantists too, because it has so much burrogrove terminology: cola, biceps...!) (The dochmiac alone sub-divides into no less than --- get this! --- 32, yes, thirty-two recognized variations. The variations begin to proliferate after "resolution," that any long syllable can be replaced by two shorts. It's about the freedom of the dochmiac, in fact, that Amy Dale spoke of "Prometheus Bound" sections as "vers libre.") I have tried, very Tennyson-Swinburne, to fuse English qualitative and Greek quantitative stress (or "quan./qual." vice-versa, never recall which) by using long vowels and diphthongs only on stressed syllables (three exceptions: "cor-", "-ty", and "bou-"). There's a superb post-modern neo-classical poem after Davenport's Archilochus in the latest Fence. ...Taking also as a new raised bar Stacy Doris' Ovid spoof in her new Krupskaya "Paramour." P.S. Thanks for all the "Get Well" cards and flowers about my left middle finger injury--- especially the bird-of-paradise from J.D. McClatchey! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ METRICAL EXERCISE (dochmiac dimeter) a fire hydrant leaks its spout trickling wet awash antidote the cure-all for burnt corsage beauty queen in first place performs the best talent act bouquet tossed to crowd enclosed fortress stormed from drawbridge and moat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:14:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Why Art Should Not Exist to Appease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [why art should not exist to appease] I The well-measured resentments spilled forth From the cup – left each grain In a separate square of the grid. “How unique!” We exclaimed – and swirled them About as though there were a game, A predetermined sequence that may lead To a questionable condition of Victory, As though furrowing the brow meant thought. II All empty gestures of meaning were meaning by Their merest relations. Philosophers who Were raised on the sands of the beach, and flung Rhetorical bottles to Poseidon, quarreled with The philosophers who lived among the sands Of the desert, with tomes more ponderous Than the unfortunate camels that bore them, But both were in agreement that the urbane poet Was doubly cursed, for they were promiscuous In their dealings with the psyche – and some Of the worst people – it is certain – are poets. III What single act could astonish if performed by that Quaint Enlightenment notion, our “fellow Man.” Still… We relent to the curious turnings. Invent new glues each year weaker than those Previous, until the chicken-wire underpinning Goes kaput and we are left astray in a field of hexagons. Options reduced to only six horizontal directions. III It’s been expressed that the purity Of lunar frequencies Contrasting Is responsible for one in seven Acts of social madness and civil Disobedience. How many accepted ones? Who knows? Let’s say three. The anxiety of the sketch artist Dealing with the soft facts of space As though “reality” were not A mistress of tender harshness, A higher standard than that of “The Old Masters”, Who are after all dead and myth, While the present Is ever present And wholly mythic. IV “Why does my pen get nervous as I get near the end of the page?” I asked my (who else?) therapist. Silence. Her wisdom being such That I was immediately thrown back On the availability of my own resources. After a single session I was cured of my melancholy And a life-long phobia of stick-men vanished over night. Now, some of my best friends are stick men! Truly affable fellows, with small appetites, and words few but insightful. Their presence a rebuke to artistic pretension. V Of course the media is Incestuous! And onanism in this Belated hour can rightly be termed “necrophilia.” I would turn And face the day. But my eyebrows are false, Cemented to the ruins of my skull With spirit-gum. This is the price For dwelling in the apogee of the sun. Stray rays lacerate my organs Like a cat-o’-nine-tails. Some think Space to be empty. I know that it is full of gray delirium And spare archetypes. VI Failsafe mechanism An oxymoron. I had not the lobes To listen. Of course We could Give our souls Fully to the discipline Of passion – but instead… The eyes have – and eyes Are – eyes of greed. Some more assiduous At meeting their need than others. Some eyes are stealthy. Others operate on a principle of brute force. The difference being the same as that of A lily of the field God cradles in His Mercy, And one inked and anchored Directly to flesh. VII Labeled “self-indulgent” when another’s self not being indulged. I will not be falsely accused if I cannot track where one’s selfhood is complete And another begins. If the map is faithfully rendered, We will easily perceive that debated territory, With lines that could well be drawn otherwise. Colors that delineate lakes from “not lakes” are arbitrary, But pretty, even so. VIII Thus I release the debates to clouds That are without verb. Allow the garden of language to usurp, And spill bright leaves into neighbourhood yards, Though they protest the wandering of winds, In their secret hearts they bless the wealth of autumn. Bring closure to deliberations. May faith bury faith. Sew new gaudy buttons on old navy suit-coats. Relive prophecy through days As though they were remaindered blue boats. michael bogue ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:20:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Unmatched parenthesis in address field. From: Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV administrator Subject: Word Wrestling Federation Championship Comments: To: poetry.guide@about.com, poetryhosts@yahoogroups.com Comments: cc: Marjorie A Hahne , NSIELING@aol.com, jblum@wsfilms.com, arubin@interport.net, Jen Abrams , sabrams@firstclass.rit.edu, gea1@is4.nyu.edu, Sherman Alexie , qlansana@hrw.com, GAlley@vcccd.net, Johnallison@aol.com, "Amirthanayagam,Indran J" , Amramdavid@aol.com, AndyDiagram@compuserve.com, JOHN ASHBERY , Pamela Auchincloss , Cheryl B , Kojo Baffoe , Tara Bahrampour , mo@cafemo.com, ab11@erols.com, daddybaby69@yahoo.com, Alex Bouton , Matt Fodor , Afi McClendon , Charlie Dean , Steve Gilpin , Funfeel4@aol.com, Jacob Gordon , Kate Hartman , Ethan Hochgesang , "Prof. Bob" , Elizabeth Luttinger , Juan Martinez , Rayna Matthews , Gerald Moody , Michael Nicoloff , samantha , Anthony Rivera , Patrick Rodgers , Carrie Schulz , Emily Steinfield , Bart Yates , Andreis Costa , Sebastian Bear-McCloud , MCEO@aol.com, Juan Carlos Diaz , Rasul Heatley , Barney Kulok , Rebecca Wu-Norman , William Ruiz , Jessica Neptune , Sophie Rosenblum , Bill Ryan , "Prof. Holman" , hbarthel@juno.com, hollybassdc@yahoo.com, jill@puretaos.com, paul beasley , Sharmilla Beezmohun , John Benton , Theresa Bergne , Veronique Bernard , Susan Bernofsky , charles bernstein , eberrigan@hotmail.com, Ann Biersteker , ann.biersteker@yale.edu, toni_blackman@hotmail.com, BLEECKERTHEATER@aol.com, Peter Blegvad , Josephine H Bloomfield , Bonairpoet@aol.com, Jane Bowers , Rawaircbt2@aol.com, pbrodsky@mail.com, LA@tenderbuttons.net, bruweber@msn.com, Jacob Burckhardt , nellymac@earthlink.net, ainsleyburrows@hotmail.com, Missbamboo@aol.com, "Turnbull,Keith" , "Anderson,Fortner" , "Dutton,Paul" , "Denby,Joolz" , Nuyopoman@aol.com, "Joseph,Clifton" , "McDowell,Richard" , "Wilson,Sheri-D" , "Samuels,Ian" , Hal Cannon , Charles Cantalupo , dcappello@wnyc.org, Kenneth Carroll , myscar1@juno.com, Adrian Castro , Cawsma@aol.com, Lenoracha@aol.com, chinpoet@hotmail.com, lonejac@mindspring.com, Ychuma@aol.com, Jean Churchill , clausenj@newschool.edu, Jim Cohn , ToddJColby@aol.com, Wanda Coleman , Libitlouda@aol.com, connie@nytimes.com, godshine01@hotmail.com, PscookProd@aol.com, Julken@aol.com, creeley@acsu.buffalo.edu, victor hernandez cruz , cc@megacorp.u-net.com, "Grace,Danny" , Amanda Deutch , sheila@thinkvisual.com, md@knitmedia.com, "Sean T. Dougherty" , mdrapkin@drapkintechnology.com, CEPoetry@aol.com, Anne Edgar , edwinliz@yahoo.com, teiben@pw.org, jason eisenberg , Anne_Elliott@Elliott,AnneRSCH,RobertE@Review.comRobertElstein,FaithMerciful@aol.com,EEqui@aol.com,Estevessan@aol.com,david.felton@mtv.com,dferri@enc.k12.il.usDanielFerri,tippyfig@nevada.eduDAYVIDFIGLER,SAGEkillz@aol.com, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What it is: The Word Wrestling Federation Championship Tuesday, JUne 5, 8PM $10 PS 122 -- 150 1st Av @9th St Part of the Toyota Comedy Festival, Sponsored by Comedy Central Bob Holman, referee The contestants: Patrick "Master of the Universe" Anderson: Indefatiguably droll, rapturously evil. Cristin "The Screamer" O'Keefe Aptowicz: recently returned from touring Australia, recently fired from her job as on-line Porn Guide Shappy "Shappy": Author of the award-losing "Shappy's Big Book of Gay Ass Love Poems", aka "The Book of Ass." Beau "Jewel of the Orient" Sia: Seriously, his satire of Jewel's poetry took him to the top (USA Today, etc). And his CD, "Attack! Attack! Go!" And his life. Hal "King Neurotic" Sirowitz: The best-selling poet in Norway since Kahil Gibrain. Events ("You" is poet/contestant): 1. Written improv. You will get a page from dictionary with 8 words circled and must write a poem of 8 lines using all the words. You will have three minutes to do thuis and will do it on stage. The order will be picked out of a hat, one name at a time. 2. Mother said. Write a poem in imitation of Hal Sirowitz. 3. Poet or Poser? On the count of 3, everybody strikes a pose of The Poet 4. 5-Way tag Team. You get a theme. You each do a line. Your line must relate to line before. No waiting. 5. Song. You sing a fshort runny song. 6. Freeform. You read your funniest poem. 3 min lim. 7. Funny Haiku Improv. You improv a haiku on a funny theme. Please be funny. 8. Funny Commercial: you write a commercial and perform it. I have a few comps. Contact me. Bob Holman * 173 Duane St #2 NY NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 Fax: 6415 holman@bard.edu * nuyopoman@aol.com * poetry.about.com poetry.guide@about.com * www.worldofpoetry.org bholman@washingtonsquarearts.com * www.peoplespoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:39:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Shapiro Subject: NYC double literary evening Monday June 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Monday, June 11 A DOUBLE Literary Evening at the Columbia Club LOCATION: 15 West 43 Street New York, New York (between Fifth and Sixth Avenues) Take 1, 9, 4, 5, 6, N, R trains to 42nd Street stations. FREE EVENT reception to follow Please call to RSVP: (212) 604 4823 or email gshapirony@aol.com 6:00 pm Author, editor, and translator Theo Theoharis will give a reading of poetry of Greek-born poet Constantine Cavafy from a new translation that he has published (Harcourt, 2001). 7:30pm A reading by Charles Stang, a University of Chicago theology graduate student, and Theo Theoharis of selections of a theatrical play about T. E. Lawrence. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:39:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Dance/Poetry Event in Oakland In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Paufve Dance presents REND a concert of dance by Randee Paufve with a reading of Beth Murray's "12 Horrors" by the poet June 7, 8, 9 @ 8 pm First Unitarian Church 685 14th St./Castro in downtown Oakland Tickets may be purchased at the Unitarian Church one hour before the performance and are $14 general/ $12 for seniors, students & disabled. Information & reservations 510-663-3516 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 11:21:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Repetition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Repetition 02:17> Nikuko says: we do find ourselves in these bleak spaces 02:17> Nikuko says: talking, echoing, back; what appears loses our selves 02:17> Nikuko says: as we stretch outwards to limits, beyond which nothing is apparent 02:17> Nikuko says: as nothing is here apparent, as words are heir apparent 02:18> Nikuko says: beyond which, nothing; our place, nothing; our flesh 02:18> Nikuko says: nothing as might be seen here among our selves 02:20> Alan says: Ah Nikuko, I come across thee! 02:20> Nikuko says: Time is always lost, Alan; we meet in yet another apparition. 02:21> Alan says: Within the folds of apparition 02:21> Nikuko says: Within an emanation: Nikuko says, Alan says: as in 02:24> Alan says: Alan says: as in 02:25> Nikuko says :Alan says: as in 02:25> Nikuko says: such times as we are spoken for 02:25> Alan says: such times as we are spoken for this and every other 02:25> Alan says: within the bounds and frameworks of our protocols 02:25> Nikuko says: within our quit desire 02:26> Nikuko tears up the mold which has held her back from working flesh 02:26> Nikuko is now working flesh 02:27> Nikuko takes Alan out with Fury-Alan 02:28> Nikuko says: GOODBYE GOODBYE GOODBYE GOODBYE GOODBYE >Nikuko says: we do find ourselves in these bleak spaces >Nikuko says: talking, echoing, back; what appears loses our selves >Nikuko says: as we stretch outwards to limits, beyond which nothing is apparent >Nikuko says: as nothing is here apparent, as words are heir apparent >Nikuko says: beyond which, nothing; our place, nothing; our flesh >Nikuko says: nothing as might be seen here among our selves >> Alan logged in << Alan says: Ah Nikuko, I come across thee! Time is always lost, Alan; we meet in yet another apparition. Nikuko says: Time is always lost, Alan; we meet in yet another apparition. Alan says: Within the folds of apparition Within an emanation: Nikuko says, Alan says: as in Nikuko says: Within an emanation: Nikuko says, Alan says: as in >Alan says: Alan says: as in >Nikuko says :Alan says: as in >Nikuko says: such times as we are spoken for >Alan says: such times as we are spoken for this and every other >Alan says: within the bounds and frameworks of our protocols >Nikuko says: within our quit desire >Nikuko tears up the mold which has held her back from working flesh >Nikuko is now working flesh >Nikuko takes Alan out with Fury-Alan ><< Alan logged off >> GOODBYE GOODBYE GOODBYE GOODBYE GOODBYE Nikuko says: GOODBYE GOODBYE GOODBYE GOODBYE GOODBYE ><< Nikuko logged off >> __ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:49:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Notes RealPoetik Notes: La Petite Zine #6 (Always worth looking at!) S P R I N G 2 0 0 1 I S S U E 6 http://www.webdelsol.com/lpz Featuring Poems By: Timothy Liu | Denise Duhamel | Tim Suermondt | Louis Armand | Sal Salasin | Ethan Paquin | Kim Horner | Robin Mookerjee | Marj Hahne | Jane Varley | Angelo Verga | Garth Graper East Bank Extravaganza! SALVAGE 1: A TRIBUTE by Henry Singer | HEARTBREAK CITY TEASER by Richard Eoin Nash and Tom Hopkins | FOUND POETRY by Daniel Nester | UNO TANKA by Jesse Glass | POETIC PROSE by Jack Martin *********************************************************** Announcing the May 2001 issue of Disquieting Muses: Robley Wilson Jane Hirshfield Len Anderson Ellery Akers Garth Greenwell Idra Novey Glenda Cooper Tom Fugalli Nick Flynn Dancing Bear Rain Jordan Franz Marc Haze McElhenny James Shadle Elaine Thomas Please come by. http://www.disquietingmuses.com ************************************************************* Greenbean Press in NYC! Stephanie Lynn Hilpert's father is homeless and schizophrenic. Since she was 14, Stephanie has gone into parks and desolate areas to look for him. In 1999, she filmed footage (with the help of a friend) of her relationship with her father for MTV News Unfiltered. You may have seen the footage. Daughter of a Rogue is a poem about Stephanie's attempt to come to terms with her situation, her father's situation, and her relationship with him. This 29-page chapbook is available now for $5ppd. from Green Bean Press. Anyone who may be interested in checking it out can send orders to: Green Bean Press P.O. Box 237 NYC 10013 USA If anyone would like more information, feel free to contact me at: gbpress@earthlink.net Also, for info on upcoming titles, special deals, and lots of other stuff, check out GBP's website: http://home.earthlink.net/~gbpress Thank you for your time. Ian Griffin Green Bean Press ******************************************************* These folks offer an incredibly large collection of Amurkin contemp art and lit links. Worth looking at. From: Rick Lupert To: owner-realpoetik@scn.org Subject: POETRY SUPER HIGHWAY some poetry with your tax cut Quick pre-update tidbit: Jim Bennett, Humyn Press Inc., Poem.X Poetry Series, and Sick Puppy Press Who join the following sponsors already signed on: Ancient Wind Press Publications, Andrea Forbing, Angelique Jamail, Barbra Nightingale, Bob Nelson/Anthology Literary Magazine, Chocolate Waters, Cider Press, Circle Magazine, Dennis Ambrose, Drift Wood Highway Poetry Anthology, Frances LeMoine, Gandy Creek Forum, Green Bean Press, Hanover Press, Instagon Foundation, John Sokol, Katie O'Loughlin, Karawane Magazine, Kitty Litter Press, Limestone Circle/Renee Carter Hall, Lizzie Wann, Lummox Publications, Marc Awodey, Muse's Kiss, Poetry at Suite101.com, Poetry Society of America/Los Angeles, The Poet's Porch (PoetsPorch.com), Pointoflife.com, Robert Diskin, Sacred Beverage Press, and Stazja Mcfadyen. If you're interested in being one of this years sponsors, write to sponsors@PoetrySuperHighway.com. The contest will begin in late June...watch your e-mail for the details. ______________________________________________________ THE POETRY SUPER HIGHWAY WEEKLY VIRTUAL UPDATE http://PoetrySuperHighway.com/ ISSN: 1523-6587 May 28 - June 3, 2001 this week: ~ This week featuring poets from IRVINE, CA and WAUSAU, WI. ~ New websites listed in all three Poetry Super Highway links categories. ~ Featured this week in the PSH Bookstore is . ~ PSH Chat Room Schedule. ~ Poetry / Writing related Classified Ads. ~ Poetry / Writing related Classified Ads. ~ Click on LANGUAGE STRIPS for a brand new episode of our exclusively syndicated comic HORROR VACUUI. http://PoetrySuperHighway.com/ *************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:12:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lungfull@RCN.COM Subject: RELAXED FIT ZINC BAR IN JUNE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" * * * THE ZINC BAR SUNDAY NIGHT READING SERIES knows you may need a little extra room to maneuver during the long summer months so we'll be scheduling fewer Sundays as a libation to the forces of languor. * * * Here's the lineup for June: SUNDAY JUNE 3: come early & sign up for the ZINC BAR OPEN MIKE SUNDAY JUNE 10: CHRIS FUNKHOUSER / DON BYRD SUNDAY JUNE 17: Reading from their new books STEVE DALACHINSKY / YOKO OTOMO The Zinc Bar Summer Edition Readings will be hosted by Douglas Rothschild. Brendan Lorber will be on special assignment, but may make Occasional Appearances, in disguise, as an audience member. Zinc Bar's at 90 West Houston between Laguardia & Thompson in New York City All readings begin at 6:37pm &'ll run you $3 which gets handed over to the readers just like that. If you want further information: 718.802.9575 or 212.533.9317 or lungfull@rcn.com ZINC BAR IN THE SUMMER: SAME DISCERNING TASTE JUST LESS OF IT. *** Reply w/ "remove" in subject line to be removed. Otherwise we'll send you updates periodically. Like once a month or so. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:02:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Jeannie Bergmann Jeannie runs a website for poetry news/events in Madison, Wisconsin – http://www.madpoetry.org – which now has a link to RealPoetik. She notes, "Please note some necessary alterations in the text below – to wit: in the first poem, Change of Life, the words "wonderful" (#1) and "poetry" in the second line should be struck through...." Which turns out to be significant, actually. She's had work in Connected: Poetry In the Age of Computers. But mostly, I couldn't resist the shameless flattery. CHANGE OF LIFE (an epistolary homage) I’m moved beyond recognition by your simple peasant ways. Here, have some toluene from Optima Suavidad by Sal Salasin Dear Mr. Salasin, Your wonderful book of wonderful poetry poems changed my life! the second book, not the first book; I’m sure the first book is wonderful, too, but I haven’t read it yet. I know it’s time to change my life when I throw it at the wall and it sticks. I was going to try to change my life on a regular schedule; twice a year, when I turn over the mattress, but I have a waterbed. There’s nothing like the soothing sound of water to give you pleasant dreams and wake you up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. I always turn on the light and look in the toilet before I sit down because you never know. They keep saying, “There is nothing living in there!” but ask them to drink out of it: they’ll change their tune. I need to change my tune. Does anybody know a good place to get jingles removed? I often feel limited by not understanding modern trends in poetics. Of course, I don’t really want to understand those trends that well; just enough to make fun of them. Sometimes I feel at a cultural disadvantage compared to other poets because I haven’t ever had a drug problem been alcoholic had an abortion been a lesbian been colored (I mean, besides beige; I guess Magic Marker doesn’t count) gotten a tattoo (I guess Magic Marker doesn’t count for that, either) gotten divorced been on welfare (I guess Medical Assistance doesn’t count) been homeless, but today is the first day of the rest of my life. I have been hopeless, more or less, but that was because I was molting. I lived in the ghetto once, but it was a tiny one, and everybody was nice to me. I was thinking of being polyandrous, but the waterbed is crowded enough as it is. I’ve never had a criminal record or done time, although that may change, now that we’ve got a new President. George Bush said on tv that the most important thing in his life was possessions. His handlers seem to be way below standard for Republican presidents. I think his tune needs changing. And while he’s at it, he should change his life, too. F.J. Bergmann ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:15:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Reiner Subject: New Chapbooks by Diane Ward, Martin Nakell Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Margin to Margin is pleased to announce the two latest titles in its continuing series of chapbooks dedicated to innovative prose: PORTRAIT AS IF THROUGH MY OWN VOICE By Diane Ward And GOINGS by Martin Nakell You can find excerpts from both books at http://www.litpress.com/margin They sell for $5 each. Make checks out to Christopher Reiner and send them to: Margin to Margin PO Box 40012 Studio City, CA 91614 Extra self-aggrandizing note: my new book, PAIN, is out from Avec Books. And there's an excerpt at http://www.poetrypress.com/avec) Thanks, CR ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 23:49:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: following repetition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ^ so one or the other watches the other or the one leave the talker leave the chat or leave the moo or leave the mud or irc then the one remaining has the place-space to talk freely forever no one is around to listen or remark or take good notice of words sometimes they'll be in logs and memories of configured software sometimes they're gone forever and in any case no one cares caring is a reaching-out and empathy which displaces emptiness but emptiness remains alone when the other or one has left fragility is the day's order in the guise of magnetic domains domains are swept by magnetic fields of earths and moons and stars there's such sadness when someone leaves the talker moo or mud there's such a loss that the space is oddly emptied and incomplete moving around there's no one in any of the rooms or programmed spaces there's no one digging or creating or posting secret messages or mail the wizards have gone home taking gods and programmers with them no visiting guests come in to entertain the solitary speaker the leaving is remarked but the entering is lost and never so remarking falls short of sadness and deep despair words upon words falter as the solitary walker speaks her last she logs and saves her sad departing words for future generations in tears and pathos she offers them for people yet unborn to you as well these words are given in the spirit of true eternity all lost all found all present unaccounted for in repetition all these writings resonate upon the same i'm here in worlds of others' making and you have left these spaces and in such leaving you have made both narratives and culture and one becomes the other and the other one and physics is created and programming and repetitions looping: if X, then Y, else Z. $ _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 19:08:21 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: LANGUAGE PROSODY: ex. 2 (DOCHMIACS) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeffrey. Doubt you're being cold-shouldered. I personally eg havent yet had time to look close at what you've emailed. Willdo. Others maybe also hard-pressed, Re Alan Sond. He's very interesting but he purs out so much one (at least I) feel overwhelmed by it all. But nothing wrong just that one cant comment on everything. He's had a lot of feedback over the last six months or so. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Jullich" To: Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 5:03 PM Subject: LANGUAGE PROSODY: ex. 2 (DOCHMIACS) > > > > Okay. The collective cold shoulder routine is working, and I'm beginning to > realize from the emphatic non-response that I'm barking into the Duino wind with > this one-man agenda about post-modern classical meter--- However, since I have > been nicely back-channeled by lurker, I'll continue in my unattended rant (I'm > beginning to see how Alan Sondheim must feel). > > Tinkered this brief (unimpressive and discardable) metrical exercise the other > evening (below), on THE DOCHMIAC, a five-syllable Greek "foot": > > _ / / _ _ / > > What I hoped my earlier "Well-Wishers" posting would demonstrate --- by the > relative inaudibility of its rhythm, as opposed to New Formalist buh-BUM-buh-BUM > iambics --- is that "true" classical meter is subtly nuanced and varied in a way > that keep it quite suited to progressives. > > Dicta: New Formalism is misrepresenting the very models they point to. Metrics > has been re-politicized by their misappropriation of Athenian democracy. > Neo-classicism is entirely a Modernist legacy (H.D., Pound, "Kora in Hell," > Martha Graham, Elliot Carter's "The Minotaur" and "Syringa," Isadora > Duncan...!). An ear trained to hear minute shifts of cadence is better prepared > to catch the hesitancies and falsities of politicized language. Go Greek. > > The five verses below are "dochmiac dimeter," two dochmiacs per line. (Classical > metrics is fun obfuscation for Langpo-lovin' obscurantists too, because it has > so much burrogrove terminology: cola, biceps...!) > > (The dochmiac alone sub-divides into no less than --- get this! --- 32, yes, > thirty-two recognized variations. The variations begin to proliferate after > "resolution," that any long syllable can be replaced by two shorts. It's about > the freedom of the dochmiac, in fact, that Amy Dale spoke of "Prometheus Bound" > sections as "vers libre.") > > I have tried, very Tennyson-Swinburne, to fuse English qualitative and Greek > quantitative stress (or "quan./qual." vice-versa, never recall which) by using > long vowels and diphthongs only on stressed syllables (three exceptions: "cor-", > "-ty", and "bou-"). > > There's a superb post-modern neo-classical poem after Davenport's Archilochus in > the latest Fence. ...Taking also as a new raised bar Stacy Doris' Ovid spoof in > her new Krupskaya "Paramour." > > P.S. Thanks for all the "Get Well" cards and flowers about my left middle > finger injury--- especially the bird-of-paradise from J.D. McClatchey! > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- > > METRICAL EXERCISE (dochmiac dimeter) > > > a fire hydrant leaks its spout trickling wet > awash antidote the cure-all for burnt > corsage beauty queen in first place performs > the best talent act bouquet tossed to crowd > enclosed fortress stormed from drawbridge and moat ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 09:57:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Stickney Subject: ROLLING BLACKOUT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ROLL OUR OWN BLACKOUT > > THE FIRST DAY OF SUMMER, > THURSDAY, JUNE 21 > 7-10 pm worldwide, all time zones > --------------------------------------------------- > > In protest of George W. Bush's energy policies and lack of emphasis on > efficiency, conservation and alternative fuels, there will be a planetary > voluntary rolling blackout on the first day of summer, June 21, from 7pm - > 10pm in any time zone (this will roll it across the planet). It is a simple > protest and a symbolic act. Turn out your lights from 7 pm - 10 pm on June > 21. Unplug whatever you can unplug in your house. > > Watch the sunset! Light a candle to the sungod, kiss and tell, make > love, tell ghost stories,recite poetry, do something outside instead of > watching television or playing videos, have fun in the dark! See the stars! > Have a midsummer fire! Don't cook: eat sandwiches! Roast marshmallows! > > Distribute this announcement as widely as possible, to your government > representatives and environmental contacts. Let them know we want global > education, participation and funding in conservation, efficiency and > alternative fuel efforts - and an end to exploitation and misuse of the > earth's resources. Yes, it's a poetic act, endorsed by none other than > Archibald MacLeish: read You, Andrew Marvell. > http://www.poets.org/poems/poems.cfm?prmID=986 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > clevelandpoetics-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > clevelandpoetics-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 09:35:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: A new book by Susan Parenti, from Non Sequitur Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A new book from Non Sequitur Press "I" and My Mouth and Their Irresistible Life in Language by Susan Parenti poems $12.00 Include $1.50 per book for mailing (mailing fee waived for orders of three or more books) To order send a check or money order to Non Sequitur Press Box 5043 Station A Champaign, IL, 61825 phone (217) 344-2903 email lfay@prairienet.org Website www.nonsequiturpress.com Visit the website for the full offering from Non Sequitur Press, and for links to other works and projects of Susan Parenti, her colleagues and friends: Herbert Brun, School for Designing a Society, Mark Sullivan, Youthtopia, Frog Peak Music, FriedArt, Spineless Books, wordwork.org For further information about Non Sequitur Press contact manni@snafu.de ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 12:55:20 +0000 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: new publisher MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, In regards to an item mentioned in trades: Tracy Philpot's new book, Distance From Birth is being published by Elixir Press and should be available in a couple of months. Send $13 (includes postage) to Elixir Press, PO Box 18010 Minneapolis, MN 55418. You might also want to check out the other amazing books Elixir is publishing: Circassian Girl by Michelle Mitchell-Foust ($13) and a chapbook, The Circumference of Arrival by Sandra Meek ($7).. The first issue of the magazine is available now--$9. Best Wishes, Dana Curtis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 00:07:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gregory Severance Subject: Re: meter/Anthology/"cola"! In-Reply-To: <3AFC52D1.B63079ED@columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" On 6/1/01, Jeffrey Jullich posted under the subject line LANGUAGE PROSODY: ex. 2 (DOCHMIACS): >Okay. The collective cold shoulder routine is working, and I'm beginning to >realize from the emphatic non-response that I'm barking into the >Duino wind with >this one-man agenda about post-modern classical meter--- However, >since I have >been nicely back-channeled by lurker, I'll continue in my unattended rant (I'm >beginning to see how Alan Sondheim must feel). I am lurker mentioned above and quite obscure. And sometimes engage Alan Sondheim in the 'hood (Park Slope, Brooklyn, New York, US of A). Jeffrey Jullich said on 5/11/2001: > > Given the new fluidity (Deleuzian flux) and commented-upon variousness that >> has re-enegized the playing field of this undemarcated "post-Language" >> period,--- I just don't understand why this omission (of meter) goes on. > > Blame it on the Beats, perhaps, and their influence on poets such as I who are befuddled since elementary school by stress. I could never quite get it right when asked to mark the accented syllables in words. To me the accent could go on any syllable. Even when vocalized a word's stresses would shift this way and that in my hearing. The idea of syllable length seems less shifty to me than stress but from what I gather it's stress that is the metric scanned for in English language meter. Qual' rather than quan'. So over the years (I'm now thirty-nine) I've practically ignored the whole topic of poetic meter. Until now that is. More J.J. from his post of 5/11/2001: > > Parenthetically, "post-Language" as a term of course referred to >> "post-L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E," that is, ~after~ that movement named after a >> journal,--- like "post-GQ." Curiously, though, the EPC sees it progressing >> every day as ~literal~ with more and more "hypermedia"/e-poetry: heightened >> graphic design, web software, collage-pictorializations,--- and a diminished >> presence of "language" (small case "l"), be it textual or speech. It's >> entering a new sort of post-literacy. Greg Ulmer at Univ. of Florida has written about ~electracy~. http://web.nwe.ufl.edu/~gulmer/disseminar/invent.html He says there: "Electracy is to digital technologies what literacy is to print." As a Telecommunications Engineer in corporate America, I've lately been pursuing knowledge of how this thing called data communications actually works under the hood. Topics like VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol), IP routing, MPLS (Multi-Protocol Label Switching), etc. Besides being mesmerized by the plethora of acronymns, I groove on the bit patterns of Ethernet frames and IP packets. (Bits are digits used in the binary numbering system. Their value is either 0 or 1, off or on, absence of voltage or presence of voltage.) For me this resonates with the binariness of poetic meter, unstressed or stressed, short or long. Gregory Severance http://www.walrus.com/~morocco ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:15:32 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: NEW FORMALIST LANGUAGE POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeffrey. I cant work pout what you're saying here. You are making a critique of....what? What is the poem..your take on a Greek drama? Your translation? It looks quite good but I cant decipher your notes to it. Sicerely, Richard taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Jullich" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 2:11 PM Subject: NEW FORMALIST LANGUAGE POETRY > Here's one that's handy,just because it's conveniently on disk, etc. (I > generally would avoid posting unpublished poetry directly to the EPC,--- but in > this case I'm not doing well at figuring out how to illustrate this point, > otherwise. ...Totally buried in over-kill, having done scansions on Susan > Howe's entire "Pierce Arrow," sifting verse meters for rewarding commonalities. > Pages upon pages of empirical data.) > > How "Language"-ish/asyntactical this example is is of course a presumptuousness > for hardcore Language victors to curl a lip at. (I now consider myself in > general a would-be but FAILED experimentalist, an experimentalist ~maudit.~ > Never quite had what it took, got it right.) (For the most part, I consider > parallel lines to have converged and two roads to have met, if the texture of a > reconditely ~complex~ thought, over-intricately phrased, is as equivalently > impassable as a Language line constructed purely for non-representational > opacity without such beneath-the-surface intraconnectivity. I.e., Wallace > Stevens: "A great order is a disorder."/"A great disorder is an order.") > Sufficiently asyntac', though, for a very aghast reply from a classicist > neighbor I know from church, who I hopefully sent this mania to, once--- Hope > to dredge his sputtering bewilderment out of my papers soon, as postscript. > ("...and these lines here: they don't even make sense!") Comical, too, that he > sent it on blank greeting card paper with Blessed Virgin Mary sticker on the > rose-colored envelope, assumed into heaven. (Spontaneous Post Office civil > servant conversions.) > > The writing is what it claims to be: excerpts from Greek drama "WRIT IN ITS > ORIGINAL METER FOR THE FIRST TIME." I didn't quite understand how amphitheater > acoustics work, at the time (since then, I've learned that there are "natural" > amphitheaters and, from first-hand Middle East tourist's report, that the voice > of one standing at the epicenter of amphitheater can be heard perfectly all > around in "bleachers"), so I assumed that most of the Greek would be hard to > hear, anyway. I figured that the ~parsing~ might be muffled, but that the ~word > order~ would come through distinct,--- so I followed word order scrupulously as > a main "rule." > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > from THE WELL-WISHERS (Aeschylus' THE EUMENIDES) > WRIT IN ITS ORIGINAL METER FOR THE FIRST TIME > > > I. PYTHIA > > divine, the goddess primal named within my prayer > prognosticator, Mother Earth, and Justice next > she who, where Earth once ~ex cathedra~ sat enthroned > and prophesied, say stories. Then the third descent > by destiny consented; no one had compelled-- > a Titan, chthonian child took her chair the throne > > II PARODOS > > alas sisters how alas O we writhe > so much to suffer all for nothing selfish me > > III APOLLO > > I'll never leave you. Till the end, your bodyguard > oath sworn to stay nearby and faraway, aloof > ............................................................. > right now unwashed madwomen crowd all sides - you look - > asleep. Aghast, what spat upon and drooling girls, > one eye among them childish hags, untouched, unloved: > no gods impregnate, men avoid, no beast will mount > born ~for~ the hell of evil, deaf to wrong and right > the shadows homey Tartarus below the ground > miasmas foul both men and holy mountain. So, > likewise, escape if possible. Faint-hearted, no. > They'll stalk your lone footsteps, remote mainlands, beyond > astride for all time over printmarks stamped in soil > across the open sea and city walls of sea > But do not weary, despite the neverending day's > travail. Depart: Athena's city lies ahead > Be seated there, embrace her ancient, carven form > Another world: ours, jurymen, and sorcery, > ................................................................ > to bring about your manumission, freed from flight . . . > > IV CHORAL ODE > > high up, blue sky, other's opinions of us, grand, > dissipate under the earth and diminish, no value, > counter-attack in our blacknesses, widow's crepe, > we dance, green with envy, feet ~en point~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:55:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: League to Support Poetry Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know anything about the "League to Support Poetry"? It seems to have begun in 1938-39 and was still happening in 1945-46. At first, at least, this group sponsored "an experimental program contest," published an anthology of selections, and awarded prizes. If you can help, please reply to me directly: afilreis@english.upenn.edu. Many thanks. - Al Filreis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:26:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Readings--June 2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich New York City FREE June 9 Vicki Hudspith, John Mincewzski June 16 Al Greenberg, Janet Holmes, Fred Marchant June 23 Jay Liveson, Jo Sarzotti, Peter Rojcewicz June 30 NO READING--COME TO THE MERMAID PARADE IN CONEY ISLAND--SEE POETS AS MERMAIDS, SEA HORSES, AND STARFISH ON THE BOARDWALK! The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder, Director Patrick Donnelly, Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Jason Schneiderman, Co-Directors Martha Rhodes, Executive Director The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of Hudson. The closest trains are the 1-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. For additional information, contact Michael Broder at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:00:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William J Allegrezza Subject: new issue and a call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The summer issue of _moria_ is now online. The url is www.moriapoetry.com. It features many poets: mary kasimor, sheila murphy, ric carfagna, courtney ogden, nicole hubbard, steve romanko, richard denner, jonathan minton, eileen tabios, william allegrezza. As always I am looking for poetry and poetic theory articles. A new section has also been added for poetry reviews, so I also need reviews of experimental poetry books. Bill Allegrezza ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:07:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Mudlark Poster No. 34 (2001) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 34 (2001) Michael Hettich | The Moon Beneath The House Contents Rope | The Months We Lived Alone For Years Attributes of Love | Espresso | Our Father Certain Trees | Yearning To Be Beautiful Light | When Michael Hettich's book A SMALL BOAT was published by the University Press of Florida (1990). His most recent chapbooks are SLEEPING WITH THE LIGHTS ON from Pudding House Publications and MANY SIMPLE THINGS (1997) and IMMACULATE BRIGHT ROOMS (1994) from March Street Press. He teaches English and Creative Writing at Miami-Date Community College. from The Moon Beneath The House Our Father wanted to taste the milk of every species of mammal in North America because he believed our human trace started in milk, and because he loved breasts. After that, he hoped to make a journey collecting eggs, not only bird but lizard, spider, insect eggs as well, to taste them, moving ever lower on the great chain until he understood the diversity and subtle textures of life on this continent with knowledge he carried on the tongue and in the blood. He walked everywhere, and he slept outside most nights. He believed that if he learned to focus well enough he would eventually be able to tell the size of a field with his eyes shut, to be able to smell what mammals lived in a forest and how many different species of tree lived there too. He wanted to fashion a language that incorporated barks and purrings of all the wild creatures he encountered so maybe a more nearly universal language might be sung, at least in some rudimentary form, and he tried to move exactly like certain wild creatures, to make only their sounds for days, to sleep in the positions he'd observed them sleeping, to hide the way they had, to vanish the way they did. Eventually he'd learn to fly, to breathe underwater, to live without thinking as a human. And then he'd move on to trees and flowers, on to wind and silence. Spread the word. Far and wide... William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:25:08 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: FW: A Beautiful Life, an Early Death, a Fraud Exposed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Note the repeated use of the word "fraud." The local police handed this "case" over to the FBI. Jeez. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]On Behalf Of kranning@miau-miau.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 3:34 AM To: Rare_Ideas@rhizome.org Subject: RHIZOME_RARE A Beautiful Life, an Early Death, a Fraud Exposed New York Times : May 31, 2001 A Beautiful Life, an Early Death, a Fraud Exposed By KATIE HAFNER On May 14, Kaycee Nicole Swenson, an effervescent 19-year-old, died from complications surrounding leukemia, which she had been battling for nearly two years. From her home in Kansas, Kaycee, an unyieldingly optimistic high school basketball star, had chronicled her remissions and relapses in her online diary, or Weblog, which she had dubbed Living Colours. For nearly a year, thousands of people went to the site to follow her travails. Many came to feel as if they knew her, and a few talked with her regularly on the phone. Some sent her gifts. Others with cancer spoke of her as an inspiration. On May 15, when Kaycee's online followers went to her Weblog, they found a small image of a rose, accompanied by an announcement of her death: "Thank you for the love, the joy, the laughter and the tears. We shall love you always and forever." Hundreds of people, none of whom had ever met Kaycee, were crushed by the news of her death. "So many people reached out to this beautiful girl who was so positive in the face of adversity," said Saundra Mitchell, a screenwriter in Indianapolis. But Ms. Mitchell was one of the first to cast doubt on what turned out to be an intricately detailed fabrication. A few days after the death announcement, Debbie Swenson, a 40-year-old homemaker, confessed to having invented the life and death of Kaycee. Ms. Swenson, who has two teenage children and lives in Peabody, Kan., a small town about 50 miles northeast of Wichita, had posed as Kaycee's mother. In an interview at her home on Tuesday, Ms. Swenson, who appeared embarrassed and contrite, acknowledged that she had been the one to create the Kaycee character but said she had not intended to hurt anyone. She said she was surprised to learn how many people had been reading about Kaycee and to learn how emotionally invested people had become. "The whole idea of an online journal is to write what you want to write," she said. "I wanted it to be something positive." The Internet, of course, is no stranger to hoaxes. Cyberspace has become home to so many jokes, stunts and fabrications that entire Web sites exist just to keep track of them all. Usually the ruses are uncovered and forgotten within a few days. But Ms. Swenson's fabrication was constructed so expertly and made so emotionally compelling that even when faced with evidence that it was not true, many people who were sophisticated Internet veterans set aside their skepticism and continued to believe it. Others put their online expertise to work to ferret out the truth about the fictitious Kaycee. The incident is revealing not only for what it says about the Internet as a safe redoubt for deception but also for the role it played when dozens of people, at once curious and angry, became electronic gumshoes and used the Web to root out the fraud. The online life of Kaycee Nicole began two years ago on a home page at a site called CollegeClub.com, where Kaycee appeared as a sunny blonde whose page was filled with photos, poetry and allusions to heaven. A year later, Randall van der Woning, a fiction writer living in Hong Kong, met Kaycee on CitizenX.com, a Webcam site. She told Mr. van der Woning that she had leukemia, which was in remission. Last July, she said the cancer had returned, and he offered to set up a Weblog and administer the site for her. Her first posting in her online journal began last August: "I'm beginning a new exciting journey," she wrote. "It's a journey into my survival. I want to win! I'll fight to the finish!" Not only did Mr. van der Woning, unaware of deception, spend countless hours working on Kaycee's behalf, posting prose, poetry and photographs to the site, but he also paid the cost of maintaining the site. Occasionally Mr. van der Woning spoke on the telephone to someone he thought was Kaycee, but most conversations took place using instant messaging. "I spoke with her every day," Mr. van der Woning said. "Sometimes I spoke with both Kaycee and Debbie at the same time. Figure that one out." Ms. Swenson's own Weblog, also administered by Mr. van der Woning, offered fine- grained descriptions of Kaycee's travails. This entry came during one of Kaycee's hospital stays: "I told her I loved her and everything was going to be alright. She was told not to talk or move around. Green, glassy eyes looked at me as blood trickled out of her mouth. The urge to hold her as I had when she was a child was fierce." "This is much more intricate and involved than anything I've been exposed to," said John Halcyon Styn, a self-described "professional Web explorer" who is a founder of CitizenX.com and lives in a house equipped with Webcams in San Diego. Mr. Styn first encountered Kaycee about two years ago, when she was on CollegeClub.com and went by the nickname Kutebabe. Like Mr. van der Woning, Mr. Styn occasionally spoke on the phone with the person he took to be Kaycee. Both he and Mr. van der Woning now believe that the person on the other end of the line was Ms. Swenson. (Last year an article in The New York Times on computer use by college students included quotations and anecdotes attributed to Kaycee Swenson; the information was based on a telephone interview that resulted from a referral by CollegeClub.com.) Many people who grew close to the character of Kaycee now point to signs that should have made them more skeptical. Jim McCormick, a registered nurse in Toms River, N.J., who communicated with Kaycee frequently via instant messages, said he grew suspicious last November. "She blew a hepatic artery, and I started having strange feelings when she didn't go into the I.C.U.," he said. Mr. Styn used to work for CollegeClub.com, and at that time Kaycee was a volunteer chat-room monitor. He found it curious that when he offered Kaycee a paid position, she turned him down, explaining that she preferred to work without pay. Others noticed inconsistencies in dates or striking similarities between spelling mistakes made by Kaycee and those made by Ms. Swenson on her own Weblog site. Still others found it curious that a 19-year-old would quote lyrics from the 60's and 70's. In April, Kaycee told Mr. van der Woning that her liver was failing and that she was dying. Mr. van der Woning posted the news on Kaycee's site. Distraught, he called her and told her that he would like to visit her. "I was quite insistent about that," he said, "because I didn't know how much time there was going to be." Kaycee told Mr. van der Woning that she would be glad to have him visit, but that first she was planning to drive with her mother to Florida to visit a friend in Miami and see the ocean. When Ms. Swenson called Mr. van der Woning on May 15 to report that Kaycee had died unexpectedly from an aneurysm, she wept inconsolably. "She was playing the part of the grieving mother all the way," Mr. van der Woning said. When he posted the news on Kaycee's Weblog the following day, her online friends grieved as if they had lost someone in their immediate families. But it was not until after the death that skepticism emerged full tilt. Ms. Swenson told well-wishers via Mr. van der Woning that there was no address for sending cards and flowers. She also said the cremation and memorial service had already taken place, just two days after the death. The doubters began to build their case. "It was way too quick for it to happen," said Rogers Cadenhead, a writer in St. Augustine, Fla. "That's what set a lot of people off, including me, who thought it was real." Matthew Haughey, a computer programmer in San Francisco who runs Metafilter, an open Weblog where Kaycee and her illness had frequently been mentioned, saw site traffic "go sky high." Upon comparing notes, people discovered that no one, not even those who spoke to Kaycee frequently by phone, had ever met her in person. Ms. Mitchell, a 27-year-old crime buff, was one of the first to raise doubts publicly, on her own Weblog. She used the Web to search for a death notice in newspapers around Newton, Kan., where Kaycee presumably lived, but found none. The tone on Metafilter, meanwhile, grew heated. Then, through more electronic sleuthing, one member of a Metafilter group of 50 or so people now calling themselves the Scooby Doos discovered that Kaycee's CollegeClub page was tied to the same account held by Kelli Swenson, Debbie Swenson's real 15-year-old daughter. Another Metafilter member announced that three days after Kaycee was supposed to have died, she logged on to her CollegeClub.com account. Early in the morning of May 19, Mr. van der Woning got a call from a tearful Ms. Swenson, who offered an explanation: Kaycee's real name, she said, was Katherine Marie, and she was the unwanted child of one of Ms. Swenson's sisters. Ms. Swenson said she had brought up the girl as her own. Mr. van der Woning must, of course, keep all of that secret, she told him. Metafilter, meanwhile, was engorged with skeptical postings. When the evidence of a hoax appeared incontrovertible, Ms. Swenson quickly sent Mr. van der Woning via e-mail a full confession, which he then posted on Ms. Swenson's Weblog on May 20. "Debbie must have been reading all this and realized she wasn't going to be able to hide anymore," Mr. van der Woning said, "and that's why she confessed." In her confession, Ms. Swenson said the Kaycee character had been a composite of three people she knew who had died of cancer. "What I did was wrong and I apologize for it," she wrote. "I regret any pain I caused." Mr. van der Woning suspects that it was when he and others started making plans to visit Kaycee that Ms. Swenson decided to kill off the character so swiftly. Even after Ms. Swenson's somewhat muddled public confession, the sleuthing continued. Dan Engler, a Metafilter user in Seattle, used Photoshop to resize a picture of Kaycee playing basketball. The enlarged shot revealed a lion's head on the floor of the gymnasium. Metafilter users then did a search that identified the team as the Lady Lions from a high school in Oklahoma. They matched the No. 10 jersey to a student named Julie Fullbright, who, it turned out, had once been acquainted with the Swensons and was very much alive and attending college in Oklahoma. Ms. Fullbright knew nothing of the hoax until Monday, when Ms. Swenson called her to apologize, said Ms. Fullbright's father, Vernon. "It was like a story being reported by locusts," Mr. Cadenhead said of the diligence of the Scooby Doos. "They swept in and just pulled facts out of the air." The Peabody Police Department looked into the case, then handed it over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's field office in Kansas City, which in turn decided not to investigate. "The loss isn't great enough for the F.B.I. to open up a federal criminal investigation," said Jeff Lanza, an F.B.I. officer. Mr. Lanza said the fact that Ms. Swenson had not actively solicited money was another factor in the decision not to pursue the case. Ms. Swenson said she had hired a lawyer because of the many angry phone calls she had received. Nevertheless, Ms. Swenson said on Tuesday that she believed the Kaycee character had been more helpful than harmful. "A lot of people have problems," she said. "I know I helped a lot of people in a lot of different ways." She could be right. So compelling was Ms. Swenson's creation that powerful online connections were made among those who believed in the Kaycee persona and among those who pulled it apart. Mr. Styn, whose gifts to the fictitious Kaycee had included a care package filled with hats to cover her head during periods of baldness, said that he refused to become cynical in the incident's unsettling wake. "One lesson you can learn from this is to trust less, but I'm choosing not to pick that one," Mr. Styn said. "The fact that she wasn't really there doesn't mean that thousands of people weren't able to trust and give love to a stranger. The fact that the Internet is a medium where people can feel those things is encouraging." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:13:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Basinski Subject: Stange Things... In-Reply-To: <20010603040804.11078.qmail@front.acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If in Buffalo, New York this Friday, June 8th at 7 PM. Stop by and hear: STRANGE THINGS BEGIN TO HAPPEN WHEN A METEOR CRASHES IN THE ARIZONA DESERT by Michael Basinski. Book launch, reception, art opening of works by Wendy Collin Sorin (illustrator of Strange Things=85.) and poetry reading by Michael Basinski with Luigi-Bob Drake on various instruments. Luigi-Bob is the editor of Burning Press of Cleveland, Ohio and publisher and designer of Strange Things=85. Free and Open to the Public. At: The Virginia Weiss Gallery at Empire = State College 3rd Floor Market Arcade Building 617 Main Street Buffalo, New York 14203 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:31:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: mark(s) zine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: marks Reply-To: marks@markszine.com Announcing the version 2.01 release of: mark(s) The current issue of mark(s) features poetry by Maureen Owen and Dennis Teichman, an essay by Harryette Mullen, an online installation of Andrea Eis's work and paintings by David Snow. Visit mark(s) at http://www.markszine.com. Come back often to view new work, revisit our archives or connect to the growing list of links to metro Detroit's online cultural communities. mark(s) is designed to be viewed at a minimum screen resolution of 800x600. June 1, 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:06:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Burger Subject: Second Sundays~final event of the Spring Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi all, For the final event of Spring 2001, Second Sundays at the Stork Club will be screening videos from the Poetry Center Archives, featuring readings by Louis Zukofsky, Frank O'Hara, Kathy Acker, Alice Notley, and Mei-mei Berssenbrugge. Also, the band Blades of Grass, with Alex Cory and friends, will perform in what may be their last public appearance. Their music, Appalachian- and Will Oldham-inspired, features lyrics by poet (and idiom press editor) Alex. A few highlights from the videos--- "There are new shoes, lambs hung on the racks with fleece." (Berssenbrugge) "One reason you write fiction is because you can't say something directly." (Acker) "Stumbling over the initial words of my telling the story is flowing back to me." (Notley) Please join us. Sunday, June 10 @ 2 p.m. Admission $2.00. 21 and over only Hosted by Mary Burger and Beth Murray The Stork Club is in downtown Oakland, 2330 Telegraph Ave between 23rd and 24th St. By BART: get off at 19th St, walk one block west to Telegraph, then up about 5 blocks, just past 23rd. The Stork Club has a large and vivid sign. (Our printed calendar mistakenly lists two addresses for the club; 2330 Telegraph is correct.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:34:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Essay on Bob Perelman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Just released: Joel Nickels, "Post-Avant-Gardism: Bob Perelman and the Dialectic of Futural Memory," in Postmodern Culture 11, no 3. http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/pmc/current.issue/11.3.r_nickels.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:48:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristen Gallagher Subject: new from handwritten press Comments: cc: CORE-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU, hub@dept.english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "There could be something comforting to this, but the process is all too slow." --Aaron Levy Handwritten Press is pleased to announce the release of Tombe, by Aaron Levy. Unlike previous Handwritten Press books, this chapbook contains an interview with photographer and poet Aaron Levy by Handwritten Press editor Kristen Gallagher. Nine of the photographs being discussed are reproduced throughout. These photographs engage with a particular post-industrial ruin during the last days of its life before being "salvaged." Ruins such as these are indeed all around us. Levy's photographs bring a new kind of attention to the ruin, calling forth its anamonumental status as forgotten archive and signifier of cultural memory loss. Al Filreis put it this way about Tombe: "The pictures of a ruin - familiar yet unclear - are enacting a process of perceptual dementia; at a certain point a central room, especially when printed in color and taking on a rosy-yellow Sabbath eve glow, looks ever so much like a synagogue. (A fuzzy analogical mneumonic: think Hungary 1944 projected onto any contemporary eastern American city.)" In forgetting to take the ruin for granted, these photographs bring an almost religious light into the darkness found there, and through that indicate an inability to truly see the archive or retrieve the life found there. Louis Cabri describes Levy's work here in terms of the artist's imperative to breach and realize limits: "In the relations and interstices between logos and image, the real erupts as a command: tombe (fall)! We fall, at once into the real, seduced, and away, repelled. 'Art' and 'life' fail us, yet in doing so, conceptualize their limit." Jean-Michel Rabate receives this same conflicted command as an invitation: "following Aaron Levy's lead, let us free fall into the paradoxical grammar of death and reach into the gaps and crevices of the allegorical landscape it deploys. These singularly performative fault lines provide the visual equivalent of Antonin Artaud's inner 'focal collapse', an 'essential and fugitive erosion in thought' ... the unthinkable dark room of a thought from which we are trying to awake." 29 pp., 9 full color reproductions of photographs, handmade w/ velour paper cover, hardware bindings, $12.50. Books on sale at http://spdbooks.org and may be previewed at our NEW WEBSITE: http://handwritten.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:31:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...everybody's protest poetry... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I missed the double-header of Amiri Baraka and Jane Cortez doing the Vision Festival at the Knitting Factory becaue I was home watching the Met game. But reports have reached me that it was the same ole tired inimitading act. The audience at 20 bucks per pop was 95 per cent white and the stray African American must have made a wrong left turn somewhere. Ms Cortez was loud and energetic...the 4 piece band including her son played back ground...'cause as is known...the message is... which the white audience ate it up...esp. poems they could understand...women is etc adj verb etc ad infinitum...man is adj verb etc ad infinitum...the audience which could actually get 'this stuff"... 41 bullets 41 bullets onebyone...bang bang...bang BANG... Mr. Baraka let the band actually play...he left the 'jew landlord stuff back in Newark..& with the petculiar hatred of the career civil servant...whose money in fully invested in the Stock market by NY State..let loose the East German rants of his youth... This is not the poetry of Kobe Bryant, Jerry Rice, the sec. of state, the national sec. advisor, the African-American woman just engineering grad of Cornell, the genuis Afro-A internet hacker, the hordes of A-A hampshire oberlin reed usc ucla strivers..this is minstrely for white folk..doo wop done again and again...it's time to retire these acts..& let 'em play the Euro festival trash circuit where Anti-Americanism still has its gone good name...and real bucks can be made off it.....Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 18:10:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: infoquery/Bad Versing Comments: cc: editor@pavementsaw.org In-Reply-To: <3B16F42F.E80217A0@megsinet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This question: >Can anyone help? I heard a poet read this line 30 years ago: > >"I held your head in my hands as if it were a delicate bowl." > >It was my very first poetry reading. Took place at Ohio University >ca. 1970-71. ---------------------------------- Got this response: Wayne Dodd has previously made public apologies for that reading. Do we really have to disgrace Ohio, yet again, by discussing the particulars in public? It's about as bad as the Devo scandal. --------------------------------- To which I MUST respond: Wayne assures me that there WAS no DEVO scandal, it was just some PhD dissertation on OVID that went, well, horribly awry. That's all he'd say. Promise. Except to extend his condolences to the poor David Baratier who's had to contend with that line for all these moons. Gads, one can only imagine . . . JGallaher Asst Editor The Ohio Review (formerly, as we're now defunct, alas) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 23:00:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Dunning langpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/01 4:42:56 PM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: >Murat. Maybe you could quote more of what was said because on the face >of it > >it seems ridiculous to want anything to be boring. > Richard, As Aldon quotes Richard Kelly as saying, to be boring is a right some poets feel they have as poets (Kelly's words, "a certain sort of boredom could be of value.") The comment I referred to was directly made to me by Charles Bernstein many years ago at the Poetry Project in relation to someone who was reading that day (I don't remember who the person was). Charles himself may or may not remember the event. I don't think it is an idea (the right to be boring, the value of boredom, etc.) he would disagree with though I can't talk for him. It is not an idea that I don't understand (the idea is not the same as different people finding different writers boring); I just utterly disagree with it. To me, pleasure it is at the heart of reading or writing, a true test. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:10:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Online Courses in Fiction : Nonfiction : New Media : Scriptwriting : Poetry (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:26:31 +0000 From: trace@ntu.ac.uk Subject: Online Courses in Fiction : Nonfiction : New Media : Scriptwriting : Poetry The trAce Online Writing School opens this week with its first group of stu= dents. To register for a place on the next series of courses, starting 16th= July 2001, go to http://tracewritingschool.com and make your choice from: GENERAL & FICTION Creative Writing Workshop: Marjorie C Luesebrink Designed to provide students with instruction in a workshop environment. Su= itable for those beginning or continuing any kind of writing. Students will= create and submit their work, read selected texts on the WWW, read and eva= luate the work of other writers in the Workshop, discuss concepts and provi= de written feedback. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/tr155.htm Writing Children's Fiction: Karen King We will explore the various markets for children=92s books and guidance wil= l be given on how to aim at a specific market, get an agent and find a publ= isher. Special attention will be given to the skills needed, such as vocabu= lary, dialogue, creating characters children can identify with and writing = for different age groups. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/tr167.htm NONFICTION Writing an Online Family History: Liz Swift Explore exciting ways of approaching the creation of a family history for a= digital environment. Students will develop and use creative writing, resea= rch and design skills, to document aspects of their own and their family's = lives on a website. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/tr149.htm Writing and Publishing Family Stories: Noeline J. Kyle Looking for inspiration and strategies to write the stories of your life? D= o you want to know how to unlock and use more creative, imaginative steps i= n your writing? Do you want to capture more fully the memories and dreams o= f the past for your family history? This practical course will help you pre= pare, plan and write more effectively. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/course= s/tr175.htm Writing Online About Gardens: Margaret Penfold This course examines examples of garden writing from the 1st century BC to = the present, and considers the variety of form from practical manual throug= h discursive memoir to magazine article. Students look at how purpose influ= ences style, define their own purposes in writing online and create their o= wn gardening pages. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/tr159.htm NEW MEDIA Electronic Writing for Digital Media: Marjorie C Luesebrink Electronic Writing for Digital Media is a general-interest course about wri= ting for the WWW and other digital media. Through online guided lectures, c= lass discussion, e-mail with the instructor, and the creation of a web piec= e, students will become familiar with the scope, characteristics, and requi= rements of electronic writing basics. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses= /tr156.htm SCRIPTWRITING Beginning Screenwriting: Bonnie O'Neill An introduction to the elements of the art of writing for film and video. S= tudents will develop their story ideas with attention to tridimensional cha= racters and the three act structure. They will learn the steps of screenwri= ting up through the treatment and then write their "set-up" -- the first 12= pages of a feature screenplay http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/tr151.= htm Discover the Playwright Within: Gabrielle S. Kaplan Students will learn how to write monologues and dialogues and will gain a c= lear understanding of dramatic structure. Sessions will focus on character,= conflict, setting, resolution, and how to combine these elements to create= a great play. For the theatre fan or beginner, this course can open you to= the world of writing for the stage. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses= /tr166.htm POETRY Getting Serious- How to Revise Your Poems: Nicole Pekarske Hunt This course will introduce techniques of re-writing and editing your poems,= typical of the publishing poet. The tutor will aid students through multip= le re-writes of 2 or 3 of their poems, as well as providing you with a host= of widely applicable fun techniques to apply to drafts in the future. htt= p://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/tr165.htm Hyperpoetry Workshop: Lewis LaCook The Hyperpoetry Workshop is both a poetry workshop and a general introducti= on to the thriving poetry communities on the net. Not only are students' po= ems critiqued by both peers and tutor, but each student's final portfolio o= f two to three poems will be worked by the student into the final class web= site. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/tr160.htm trAce Online Writing School The Nottingham Trent University, Clifton Lane, Nottingham NG11 8NS, England Tel: +44 (0)115 848 6360 Fax: +44 (0)115 848 6364 Email: info@tracewritingschool.com Web: http://tracewritingschool.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:38:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Serial K. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Serial K. alan>> FLASH! Flesh flush! nikuko>> Male mole mule mele mile! alan>> Put pot, pat pit, pet woman, women! nikuko>> Gad God! Dig dug dog! Slap slop! Slip! alan>> Beg big bog bug! Bag warm worm! FLASH! nikuko>> FLESH FLUSH! Flew flaw flow! Die, Doe! alan>> More, mere Mare! Mire, Sot! Set, sit! nikuko>> Sat! But, bat bit bot, bet? Yep, yap! alan>> Yup! nikuko>> Yip! Now, new net, not nut? alan>> Knit knot. Rid red rad rod! Hale hole! nikuko>> Pant pint, punt sax. Sex six! Hull hall! alan>> Hell, hill! Oh, eh, uh... ah... Lock, lack luck. Lick!!! nikuko>> Hi, ha, he, ho, hum ham. Hem him! Pink punk! alan>> Spank spunk! nikuko>> Hit hot hat hut! Take toke, tike! alan>> Token taken. Ego ago. Live, love! nikuko>> FLASH! Flush flesh! Heh, hah! alan>> Huh? nikuko>> Push posh, Winter-Wanter, Min Men-Man! alan>> Grand grind! Like lake, come. nikuko>> Came! Mute mite mote mate! alan>> Mete slack slick. Cluck click-clack clock. nikuko>> Pale pole pile, pill-pull poll... alan>> Pall. Have hive! nikuko> Hove... alan>> ... nikuko>> Jingle-jangle jungle... alan>> FLESH FLASH! FLUSH! nikuko>> Mean moan... (Nan nun, non ripe rape rope.) alan>> Lip-lap lop. Poke pike,.. nikuko>> Puke! FLUSH FLASH! alan>> FLESH 16:36> Alan says: Hay, did you see that piece I just wrote? 16:36> Nikuko says: "Hey, did you just see that piece I just wrote? 16:36> Alan says: Stop imitating me! 16:36> Nikuko says: Stop imitating me! 16:37> Alan says: I'm not imitating you, you're imitating me! 16:37> Nikuko says: "I'm not imitating you, you're imitating me! 16:37> Alan says: Stop it stop it stop it!!! Stop it stop it!!!! 16:38> Nikuko says: Stop it! Stop it! stop it Stop it!!! stop it!!! stop it 16:38> Alan says: I can't believe this! I just made something incredible! 16:38> Nikuko says: "I can't believe this! I just made something incredible! 16:39> Nikuko says: Arghhhhh!!!!!!! Good grief!!!! 16:39> Alan says: "Arghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 16:39> Alan says: Good grief!!!!!!!!!!! 16:39> Alan says: Bye!!!! 16:39> Nikuko says: Bye!!!! 16:39> Nikuko says: I'm going now really bye!!! 16:40> Alan says: I'm going now, really, bye bye bye bye bye bye bye!!!! 16:40> Nikuko says: Bye, this is for real, bye bye bye! 16:40> Alan says: Bye, this is for real, bye bye bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! << Alan logged off >> _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:42:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: source of Perelman quotation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm trying to find the original appearance of the following quotation by Bob Perelman - anyone know where this is from?: "This writing does not concern itself with narrative in the conventional sense. Story, plot, any action outside the syntactic and tonal actions of the words is seen as secondary...Persona, Personism, the poet as trace of the poet-demiurge-these, too, are now extraneous." If you do know the source, please backchannel to dkane@panix.com. Thanks in advance. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:03:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: New @ Bridge Street, Brathwaite, Blake, Fredman on Reznikoff, Surrealists, Crayon, &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's the latest. Thanks, Poetics, for your support. 1. _John Ashbery: The Voice of the Poet_, Random House, $17.95. 1 cassette, 67 minutes, & 64 page book. 2. _William Blake: The Complete Illuminated Books_, Thames & Hudson, $39.95. 393 plates, 366 in color. 3. _Ancestors_, Kamau Brathwaite, New Directions, $35. A reinvention (revision & extension) of Brathwaite's trilogy Mother Poem, Sun Poem, and X/Self in the "Video Sycorax" style. 4. _Surrealist Painters & Poets: An Anthology_, ed Mary Ann Caws, MIT, $49.95. Conceived as a sequel to Motherwell's Dada Painters & Poets, Caws has gathered a wide range of surrealist poetry & prose, including memoirs, dreams, manifestoes, & collaborations as well. "This is at once a scholarly collection and a work of art in its own right." --Marjorie Perloff 5. _Crayon 3_, ed Andrew Levy & Bob Harrison, $16. Special feature on Pessoa including new translations & an interview, by Chris Daniels & Dana Stevens. Also featured, a collection of essays by contemporary writers on favorite books: Chikd, Moriarty, Shoptaw, Danon, Cole, Silvers, Brannen, Rosenfield, Albon, Fitterman, Hansen, Lookingbill, Chirot, Wallace, Durgin, Mossin, & Myles. Poetry by E Robinson, Cabri, Kocik, Ferguson, Harryman, Greenberg, Alcalay, Sheridan, Machlin, Kovac, Champion, Durgin, & Farmer. 6. _Five American Women: The Voice of the Poet_, readings by Bogan, H.D., Millay, Stein, and Rukeyser, Random House, $17.95. 1 cassete, 57 minutes, & 64 page book. 7. _A Menorah for Athena: Charles Reznikoff and the Jewish Dilemmas of Objectivist Poetry_, Stephen Fredman, U Chicago, $16.95. "_A Menorah for Athena_ is a thoughtful, informative, and engaging look at Charles Reznikoff, whose work is among the most sustaining achievements of any twentieth-century poet. Fredman's study is not only groundbreaking but must reading." --Charles Bernstein 8. _Hourglass Transcripts_, Susan Gevirtz, Burning Deck, $10. "illumination beyond recognition" 9. _Anarchy! An Anthology of Emma Goldman's MOTHER EARTH_, ed Peter Gla ssgold, Counterpoint, $25. A seminal journal of American anarchism published from 1906-18, writings by Goldman, Sanger, Kropotkin, Berkman, &&&. 10. _vocoder_, Judith Goldman, Roof, $10.95. "[Goldman] restores two visions at once: the avant garde's insistence that poetic form be politically motivated and not just 'fun,' and the conviction that freedom is possible 'only' when we admit that we are not free." --Jennifer Moxley 11. _Desire for a Beginning Dread of One Single End_, Edmond Jabes, trans Rosmarie Waldrop, images by Ed Epping, Granary, $15. "The soul has no restraints." 12. _Poasis: Selected Poems 1986-1999_, Pierre Joris, Wesleyan, $16.95. "the omnium/ divvied into/ threes" 13. _Kenning 10_, ed Patrick Durgin, $6. Albon, Carll, Hofer, Bellamy, Baraka, Pastior, Biglieri, Rising Higgins, Ratcliffe, Piombino, Meadows, Bruno, Friedlander, Dworkin, Bertin, Nakayasu, Torres, Pusateri, Treadwell, Piva, Donnelly, Tardos, Mac Low, Roy, & Hansen. 14. _Mutations_, Rem Koolhaus, The Harvard Project on the City, Stefano Boeri, Sanford Kwinter, Nadia Tazi, Hans Ulrich Obrist, published by Actar, $45. "WORLD = CITY" 15. _San Francisco Beat: Talking With the Poets_, ed David Meltzer, City Lights, $19.95. Interviews with di Prima, Everson, Ferlinghetti, Hirschman, Kyger, Lamantia, McClure, Micheline, Rexroth, Snyder, Welch, & Whalen. 16. _What's the Matter with the Internet?_, Mark Poster, Minnesota, $17.95. 17. _Nova_, Standard Schaefer, Sun & Moon, $10.95. Winner, Natl Poetry Series 1999 selected by Nick Piombino. "Jittery as a sine wave slouching through the sane room" 18. _Alfred and Guinevere_, James Schuyler, introduction by John Ashbery, NYRB, $12.95. Schuyler's long out-of-print novel. 19. _Ma Langue est Poetique-- Selected Works_, Christophe Tarkos, Roof, $12.95. Introduction by Chet Wiener, translations by Doris, Moure, Templeton, Chao, Cole, Wiener, & Skinner. "the head does not exceed the limit of the pellet" 20. _Tripwire: A Journal of Poetics -- Issue 4: Work_, ed Yedda Morrison & David Buuck, $8. Elrick, Derksen, Myles, West, Callis, Ernst, Torres, Farmer, Daly, Gilbert, Banbou, Maltros, Toscano, Theoret, Roy, Brodine, Zapatista Army of National Liberation, Yepez, Cabral, R Waldrop, Lieber, Fitterman, Andrews, Wallace, Stefans, Killian, & Quersehi. 21. _Women in Dada: Essays on Sex, Gender, and Identity_, ed Naomi Sawelson-Gorse, MIT, $29.95. New in paperback. 22. _Source Codes_, Susan Wheeler, Salt, $12.95. "I lied about D.C." 23. _Intimate with Walt: Selections from Whitman's conversations with Horace Traubel 1888-1892_, ed Gary Schmigdall, U Iowa, $22.95. "I believe in saints if they're far enough off." Some bestsellers: _Joe Brainard: A Retrospective_, Constance M. Lewallen, U Cal/Granary, $29.95. _On the Nameways Volume 2_, Clark Coolidge, The Figures, $12.50. _The Beginner_, Lyn Hejinian, Spectacular Books, $6. _Lip Service_, Bruce Andrews, $22.95. _Manifesto: A Century of Isms_, ed Mary Ann Caws, $35. _Content's Dream: Essays 1975-1984_, Charles Bernstein, Northwestern, $24.95. _Prepositions + : The Collected Critical Essays_, Louis Zukofsky, Wesleyan, $16.95. _Big Allis 9_, ed Melanie Neilson & Dierdre Kovac, $10. _Ace_, Tom Raworth, Edge, $10. _Seven Pages Missing: Selected Texts Volume One, 1969-1999_, Steve McCaffery, Coach House, $22.95. _Shark 3: Historiography_, ed Lytle Shaw & Emilie Clark, $10. _Modern Poetry and the Idea of Language: A Critical and Historical Study_, Gerald Bruns, $13.95. _Earliest Worlds_, Eleni Sikelianos, Coffee House, $14.95. _Bed Hangings_, Susan Howe, pictures by Susan Bee, $14.95. _North of Intention: Critical Writings 1973-1986_, Steve McCaffery, $17.95. _Imagining Language: An Anthology_, ed. Jed Rasula and Steve McCaffery, MIT, $29.95. _Everybody's Autonomy: Connective Reading and Collective Identity_, Juliana Spahr, $24.95. _The Scene of My Selves: New Work on New York School Poets_, ed Terence Diggory and Stephen Paul Miller, $24.95. _The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You, Frank Stanford, $18. _Ring of Fire_, Lisa Jarnot, Zoland, $13 (signed copies). _Hambone 15_, ed Nathaniel Mackey, $10. _amounts. to._, P. Inman, Potes & Poets, $9 (signed copies). _Indivisible: A Novel_, Fanny Howe, $11.95. _The Language of Inquiry_, Lyn Hejinian, $17.95. _The Sonnets_, Ted Berrigan, intro & notes by Alice Notley, $16. _Means without End: Notes on Politics_, Giorgio Agamben, $17.95. _If in Time: Selected Poems 1975-2000_, Ann Lauterbach, Penguin, $18. _Extraordinary Measures: Afrocentric Modernism and Twentieth Century American Poetry_, Lorenzo Thomas, $19.95 (signed copies). _Midwinter Day_, Bernadette Mayer, $12.95 (fingerprinted (by the author) copies). _The Big Lie_, Mark Wallace, $7.50. _Comp._, Kevin Davies, $12.50. _Republics of Reality: 1975-1995_, Charles Bernstein, $14.95. _Aerial 9: Bruce Andrews_, ed Rod Smith, $15. _Why Different?_, Luce Irigaray, $8. TO ORDER: Poetics folks receive free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping + 10% discount on orders of more than $30. There are two ways to order. 1. E-mail your order to aerialedge@aol.com with your address & we will bill you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr add, order, card #, & expiration date & we will send a receipt with the books. We must charge shipping for orders out of the US. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:03:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Long Subject: Summer Issue of 2RV MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed It's summer and therefore time for a new issue of The 2River View, this one with new poems by John Amen, Michelle Cameron, Glenda Cooper, Jeffrey Ewing, Raymond Farr, Kris Kahn, Anne Kellas, Rebecca Lu Kiernan, Tom Sheehan, and George Wallace, and art by Mark Flowers. As usual, you can read it by going to http://www.2River.org Richard Long ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 09:58:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Eileen In-Reply-To: <3B170B31.8005BFBC@columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" well i don't know, i could feel attacked by this description i guess as well as could many of us but i think eileen is entitled to her class resentments i am fascinated by the way class sometimes comes up on the list and really gets folks going. At 11:25 PM -0400 5/31/01, Jeffrey Jullich wrote: >Ron Silliman wrote: > >> Really excellent piece on Eileen Myles in today's NY Times. >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/30/arts/30POET.html >> >> Ron > >----------------------------------------- > >Funny. I bumped into a a local first generation "Language Poet" the >afternoon of the article, and he had taken a resentment to what Myles >said about her dislike for middle class poets who temporarily drop out, >do the bohemian scene, and then re-enter their predestined professional >class. This peripatetic "Language Poet" said he likes Eileen very much >--- who couldn't?! --- but that he read that remark as an "attack" very >specifically targeted at your scene, Ron. > > >For my own part, I found the most edifying news in the article to be the >musician-poet hybrid/collaboration scene that's emerging. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:32:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Film & Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, Here's a gig alert reminder-- You are invited to: A poetry & Film Collaboration Work-in-Progress by Wanda Phipps & Joel Schlemowitz (Live Reading with Multi-Projection Film Performance) & Reading by Poet Noelle Kocot Tuesday, June 5, 2001 at The Flying Saucer Cafe 494 Atlantic Avenue between Third Avenue and Nevins Brooklyn, NY 8:00pm $3 donation. HOW TO GET THERE: Take the 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or D or Q to the Atlantic Subway stop and walk underground to the Pacific Street exit (at the N or R or M Pacific Street Stop) or take the B or N or R or M - in any case, go out the Pacific Street Exit (right exit), take a right - at the end of the block you will be on Atlantic Ave. Take a left on Atlantic, and about two and a half blocks down, between Third and Nevins, you will find the Flying Saucer Cafe. Hope to see you there! -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:20:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ron swegman Subject: New Title: Spring, 2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Rush 2 Press . . . is pleased to announce its folded broadside for . . . Spring, 2001 . . . * *** *** *** *** *** * _With What Remains_ poems by Kyle Conner art by Mikel Elam * *** *** *** *** *** * Available now for USA $3 (includes postage)!!! For orders and other correspondence, please contact: ron P. swegman Editor & Publisher Rush 2 Press 156 N. 21st Street, 3rd floor Philadelphia, PA 19103 rush2press@yahoo.com That's a wrap! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:11:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Fiona Maazel Subject: you're invited... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please help The Paris Review celebrate its New Writers Issue with a big = old party.=20 Where: The Brooklyn Bridge Anchorage When: June 13th. Perks: Jim Carroll, Denis Johnson, Rick Moody, and Helen Schulman will = read from works originally published in the magazine. Music, dancing, drinks.=20 Readings start at 8. Party goes on and on. $10 at the door.=20 Directions: Take the 2 or 3 train to Clark Street or the A or C train to = High Street. Walk down=20 Cadman Plaza West towards the river, under the BQE = overpass, and enter to the right. www.creativetime.org 212-206-6674 x213 www.theparisreview.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:52:10 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Caterina Davinio Organization: Art Electronics Subject: Call for participation: Poetry in Net Action - 49th Biennale di Venezia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Call for participation: JUNE 7th 2001 - 11.00 AM / Until 6.30 PM During the 49th Biennale di Venezia Vernissage: "Poetry in Action - A Net of Voices" Net Happening of the Poetry Bunker (Orsogrill delle Artiglierie) in net connection with Karenina.it FOLLOW THE LINK TO KNOW HOW TO TAKE PART IN THE VIRTUAL HAPPENING: http://www.geocities.com/kareninarivista/happeninginfo.htm 7 GIUGNO 2001 - Dalle 11.00 alle 18.30 - Durante la Vernice della Biennale di Venezia: "Poesia in azione - Una rete di voci" Happening del Bunker Poetico (Orsogrill delle Artiglierie) in connessione Internet con Karenina.it PARTECIPA ANCHE TU ALL'HAPPENING VIRTUALE! http://www.geocities.com/kareninarivista/happeninginfo.htm _________________________ Speciale Biennale di Venezia http://www.geocities.com/kareninarivista/ Karenina.it Experimental (poesia in funzione fàtica) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:38:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Fouhy Subject: Sekou Sundiata Performance Celebration! Comments: To: Kathleen Masterson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please come to celebrate our 6th Anniversary with Award Winnng peformance poet Sekou Sundiata and Open Mike!! Please pass on this information. Thank you!! 914 241 6922 ext 17. For Immediate Release: Creative Arts Café Poetry Series Anniversary Sekou Sundiata Poetry Performance Mt. Kisco, NY: The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series at Northern Westchester Center for the Arts celebrates its 6th year of offering the highest quality poetry to the Westchester Community with a month featuring the dynamic art of performance poetry. June’s award winning poets and performance artist presentations continue on June 11th 7:30 PM with Sekou Sundiata, the outstanding New York City poet/song writer featured in the 1996 Dodge Poetry Festival. The events of the evening also include readings by Fox Lane HS student Coretta Ryan and Briarcliff HS student Sarah Bellentini. There will be an Anniversary Reception followed by an OPEN MIKE. June 25th 7:00PM a High School Alumni writers night will feature graduates of Horace Greeley HS poet Matt Furey and poet/songwriter/composer Matt Kellogg and North Salem HS graduate Jamie Manning. A reception and open mike follow each reading. Sekou Sundiata is one of New York's most intelligent and gifted poets of the African-American consciousness. Sundiata is a poet who writes for both print and performance as well as music and theater. He has recorded and performed with a wide variety of artists, including Craig Harris, David Murray, Nona Hendryx and Vernon Reid. He co-produced a series of concerts at the American Center in Paris. Sundiata wrote and performed in the highly acclaimed performance theater work The Circle Unbroken Is A Hard Bop, and his music theater work, The Mystery of Love, was presented by New Voices/New Visions at Aaron Davis Hall and later produced by the American Music Theater Festival. Sundiata received a BESSIE Award and two AUDELCO Awards. He was a Sundance Institute Screenwriting Fellow, a Columbia University Revson Fellow, and the first Writer-in-Residence at the New School University. Sundiata was a Master Artist in Residence at the Atlantic Center for the Arts, and he is a professor at Eugene Lang College. He was featured in the Bill Moyers PBS series on poetry, “The Language of Life”. His most recent concert performances include the Celebrate Brooklyn Festival, the Fringe Festival, the IAM Black Music Conference, the African American Museum Project at the Smithsonian Institution, the Crossing Borders and North Sea Jazz Festivals in Holland. As a recording artist, Sundiata released his first CD, The Blue Oneness of Dreams, to critical acclaim on the MouthAlmighty/ Mercury record label. His second release, longstoryshort, was released on Righteous Babe Records in 2000 . UDU a music theater work that he wrote (composed by Craig Harris) was presented by the Festival of Art and Ideas at Yale University and by the Walker Arts Center and Penumbra Theater in Minneapolis. UDU completed a five city tour in 2001, including performances at The Harvey Theater/Brooklyn Academy of Music, produced and presented by 651 ARTS. Sundiata and his band will do a national tour with Ani DiFranco in the Summer 2001. The series is made possible by grants from the New York State Council on the Arts and the Bydale Foundation. There is a suggested donation of $7.00; $5.00 for seniors and students. Coffee, cake and refreshments are included. The Creative Arts Cafe is located in the gallery of Northern Westchester Center for the Arts, 272 North Bedford Road, Mt. Kisco, on Rte 117, near Staples. For further information, call Cindy Beer-Fouhy, Director of Literary Arts at NWCA, 241 6922. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:23:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "anno@mindspring.com" Subject: 6/15 & 6/22 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" COME ONE, COME ALL & PLEASE HELP SPREAD THE WORD! Two FREE Lapis Magazine Evenings at The New York Open Center, 83 Spring Street, NYC, 212 219 2527. With host, Contributing Editor JP Harpignies I New Dimensions in the Corporate Manipulation of the Arts With Natalie Jeremijenko, Jacqueline Stevens, & Christina Cobb Corporate appropriation of art and popular culture to sell products is nothing new, but two recent, very high-profile shows, "Paradise Now: Picturing the Genetic Revolution," and "Perfecting Mankind: Eugenics and Photography," as well as several other exhibitions and events, highlight a new level of sophisticated, covert campaigns to further corporate agendas using the arts. How can artists, activists and informed citizens respond to these extremely subtle, stealth propaganda methods? And how can we strive for integrity and clarity in a society which commodifies every aspect of life? Join some artists, scholars and activists as we explore these difficult questions. An Evening Panel/Discussion 7:30pm Free Admission Friday, June 15 II Inner Cultivation & Outer Engagement With Charmaine Crockett, Yasmine Sherif, Sally Fisher, and Jonathan Granoff One of Lapis magazine's core missions is to provide a forum where "real-world" environmental and societal issues and the cultivation of the inner spiritual dimensions are viewed as equally relevant to contemporary life. And certainly in many cases an inner spiritual equilibrium or grounding in a faith lead to "right action" in the world. But these two impulses are often also at odds, both in the larger culture and within individuals. Some religious and esoteric teachings can encourage withdrawal rather than engagement, or can promote reactionary and authoritarian movements. Join us for a lively exploration of the delicate relationship of the spiritual and the socio-political in modern life. An Evening Panel/Discussion 7:30pm Free Admission Friday, June 22 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:23:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lee ann brown Subject: NYC sublet Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Short Sublet in beautiful warehouse loft in Williamsburg, Brooklyn June 11-July 1 (about three weeks) near Lorimer L (second stop from Manhattan) and Black Betty. I am looking for a certain special someone who will also take care of my 2 CATS a deal at $600 for those 21 days plus about $75 for water, electric, gas, trash etc. (will be taken out of $300 deposit for phone as well) Single Female preferred. Call soon to see! *** *** *** ** * * * * (718) 782-8443 new home phone (646) 734-4157 the cell phone * * * * * ** * * * * ***** I've moved but Mailing Address is the SAME: Lee Ann Brown Tender Buttons PO Box 13, Cooper Station NYC 10276 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:52:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Burger Subject: Second Story Books: Prevallet and Brooker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New from Second Story Books: RED, by Kristin Prevallet Two miniature noir narratives that may or may not involve sex, death, or lyricism. 12 pages, full-color cover, metal eyelet binding. $5.00. Spirit's Measure, by Gregory Brooker Taking The Book of Mormon as its point of departure, Spirit's Measure reveals that the restrictive device of fundamentalism, released from its obligation to keep the faith, can become a means of sustaining the profound contradictions of a person who thinks. 27 pages, monochrome cover, metal eyelet binding. $5.00. These and all Second Story titles available from Small Press Distribution, http://www.spdbooks.org/. Or, email the editor: mburger@macromedia.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:49:48 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: self/no-self MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've seen this post elsewhere and would like to circulate it here. -----Original Message----- From: kent johnson [mailto:kljohnson45@hotmail.com] Claudia Keelan, in new Fence (#8), leads off her notational essay "An Ethics of Practice: Reading and Writing Spiritual Utility" with the following quote from Keats: "A poet is the most unpoetical of anything because he has no identity-- he is continually in for-- and filling some other body..." She expalins in a footnote that it is this Keatsian spirit which the "avant-garde" extends, as opposed to those poets of the Self, who, following Wordsworth, promenade themselves "under a banner named authenticity." Those poets who laudably follow in Keats's step see, according to Keelan, "No self but in other. No poem but in the destruction of the poem by the reader whose reading makes a new exchange." So my "question": If this is so, why is it that there is such a dearth of *actual experiment* in forms and unfoldings of "poetic identity"? Why is it that even the most radical textual "experiment" seems to bring itself up short at the inner threshold of the legal self and its name, the latter always stamped, without a thought, onto the poem, so that any "new exchange" is, ipso facto, a transaction restrained within the bounds of a delimited cultural economy, the very coin of which instantiates and guarantees a value to the Self *vis a vis* the Other? That's not to say that ethics are any less relevant or true within habitual and protocoled arrangements; but might there be an *ethical poetic praxis* yet waiting to be explored beyond the limen of conventionalized Authorship? Might tentative, speculative moves in such direction today tend to readily be given the stigma of 'hoax', 'fraud', 'fake', 'forgery' in great part *because* of the comfort of habit and safety of protocol? Kent ____________________________________ Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:07:21 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: self/no-self MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > So my "question": If this is so, why is it that there is such a dearth of > *actual experiment* in forms and unfoldings of "poetic identity"? There is indeed such a shortage because the discussion and explanation of the subject is reduced to an oppositional dyad in traditional English-speaking intellectual culture. Poetry, however, should not take sides (yes I am using this as a criteria for judgment). The poetry is in the third thing, the unseen, the that-which-is-of-keats-but-not-of-keats, that-which-is-wordsworth-but-not-of-wordsworth: the notion that, well, selves may or may not exist. the notion that we just have no fucking idea whether selves are real or essential, the notion that we cannot answer the question, the notion that, as far as poetry should be concerned, the question itself is the answer. contradiction, manifest repugnance, ambiguity, paradox, agnosticism: the poetic space of self rests in these worlds that push and possibly exhaust the very possibilities of language. but then, isn't poetry supposed to do just that: push and possibly exhaust the very possibilities of language? to quote from Eliot (this quote isn't strictly about Jesus, I assure you): Who is the third who walks always beside you? When I count, there are only you and I together But when I look ahead up the white road There is always another one walking beside you Gliding wrapt in a brown mantle, hooded I do not know whether a man or a woman —But who is that on the other side of you? neither side of the *traditional* oppositional dyad exhausts the possibilities of self, neither side is inspired, neither side is radical. it is when the agnostic/ambiguous space of the self in poetry, this third that walks besides us, is expressed, when the question itself is made the answer cast into poetry, that radical possibilities open. sadly, we have not seen such wisdom in poetry frequently. but when we do, it is, at least to me, incredible, beautiful, chilling, inspiring. such poetry has something special that is rare but beautiful. To me. I will give three examples that are an inspiration: Araki Yasusada's _Doubled Flowering_ Barry MacSweeney's _Pearl_ and "I am Lucifer" from _Postcards from Hitler_. Both of the above works from MacSweeney capture the ambiguity and contradictory nature of self without rejecting the possibility that the self does exist in a way different from _DF_. In both of MacSweeney's works, the narrator IS and IS NOT the author, IS and IS NOT the subject (crucially) of the poem. "I am Lucifer" the poem reads repetitively, but who is the "I"? Is it Lucifer? Is it Barry? Are Barry and Lucifer the same? They are the same, then they are not, back and forth. MacSweeney's works capture a more aesthetic end of such notions but they do fall short of realizing the role of language, books, and authors in the world. The book, after all, is still Barry's. Whereas _DF_ has the very issue of its own reality perfectly realized and is like an onion that may not have a center. And perhaps it, like all literature, does NOT have a center. Perhaps it does. The important aspects are: NOT knowing, maintaining the wonder, the questioning, the search, the fascination of self and with that fascination, all of its paradoxes, complexities, confusions, tensions, contradictions, and ambiguities. Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:25:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Peeking, Huh? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Peeking peeking @ ^_^:::Yay!:Pip-pup? Pap, Sis? Does replace your peeking @ ^_^? peeking @ ^_^:::Wow! : Write substances Tut, Tat-Tot. Vov, waw? through my peeking @ ^_^! peeking @ ^_^:::Huh? (Lil Lol!):Huh? (Lil Lol!) Your menses Hah, heh!!! are in my ammonias Hah, heh!!! peeking @ ^_^:::Hah, heh!!! :Mum, Mam-Mom. Mem, nun? Your effluvia Did Dad? Dud... Gag gig. are in my shit Huh? (Lil Lol!) peeking @ ^_^::::Pip-pup? Pap, Sis? Write cuts _ through my peeking @ ^_^! peeking @ ^_^:::Huh? (Lil Lol!): Your faerie dissolves my _! peeking @ ^_^:::Hah, heh!!! :Wow! Does replace your peeking @ ^_^? peeking @ ^_^:::Yay!:Pip-pup? Pap, Sis?::: peeking @ ^_^:::Huh? (Lil Lol!):Huh? (Lil Lol!): Write substances Tut, Tat-Tot. Vov, waw? through my peeking @ ^_^! Your sweat Write substances Tut, Tat-Tot. Vov, waw? through my peeking @ ^_^! are in my ammonias peeking @ ^_^:::Wow! : Hah, heh!!! :Did Dad? Dud... Gag gig.:Bob, Bib bub!:Yay!:Tut, Tat-Tot. Write floods Wow! through my Hah, heh!!! ! Hah, heh!!! :Did Dad? Dud... Gag gig.:Bob, Bib bub!: Non, nan, Pep-Pop! :Pip-pup? Pap, Sis? Your Mum, Mam-Mom. is on my splits Non, nan, Pep-Pop! Hah, heh!!! :Did Dad? Dud... Gag gig.:Bob, Bib bub!:Pip-pup? Pap, Sis?: Your cuts Non, nan, Pep-Pop! is in my shit Yay! Hah, heh!!! :Did Dad? Dud... Gag gig.:Bob, Bib bub!:Pip-pup? Pap, Sis?: Hah, heh!!! :Did Dad? Dud... Gag gig.:Bob, Bib bub!:Non, nan, Pep-Pop! :Mum, Mam-Mom. Your spews Mum, Mam-Mom. are in my urine Huh? (Lil Lol!) ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:58:31 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Dunning langpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat. I agree that pleasure of reading is largely, but not totally,primary; but by boring Kelly may have meant that certain poetic devices work to counteract what is conventionsally a lush or "invigorating" poem: i think that most poets of whatever ilk would be with you against boredom...it sounds to me that C.B. probably threw that one out...but in reading A Poetics which I am finding very interesting he talks about absorptive versus anti-absorptive "attacks" or tactics ...which he (as far as I can tell) enjoys as a method so that his work (or others maybe) will have say rhyme one minute,be boredom the next, lyricism the next...a mix of "texts" etc and these modulate so that the work encountered by a potential reader is neither too facile nor so opaque that it either becomes tedious by its very "beauty" (too mellifluous..."drowns the sense in odours"... to quote Eliot - whom C B doesnt quote by the way) ... and also counteracts the "numbing" effect. So writing in a "plain and dull" style for a few passages might assist in the object of poetry that is like a swoon except that it brings one to one's senses. (to semi quote CB's The Klupzy Girl or from that) I think it does depend somwhat on who one is and even when one is reading a text (poem or whatever): to compare it to music...I was just listening to Ligeti who is quite "avante garde" (correct spelling?) but although I enjoyed that and it was a good contrast to a lot of Bach I'd been listening to..and I taped it...I'll probably go back to Bach and not replay it for a while...there was a time when I listened to Bob Marley for hours and so on. I think this poetry making is never as simple as your implied pleasure: that pleasure varies from reader to reader and writer to writer. Your "true test" sounds suspiciously as if you hankered after something "rousing" like Hiawatha or something "straight from the heart" like something by Ella Wheeler Wilcox, or Keats who'se good but how much Keats can you read? The worst poetry is the pseudo poetic stuff that gets into mainstream mags: if one has to "work" a bit on a poet then that's also a kind of pleasure. Also boring may be vailid in that to sidestep "boring" you're sidestepping "reality"...difficult as that thing is to pin down. Life is very often boring (or we think it is or make it so)(but it is an experience or hasbeen "mentioned in despatches" as being so). You say "a true test"...but why should it be a test? Whose marking? The test I think is the originality, intelligence,emotive qualities sound and so on all combined: whether it works on and worrys at the reader. Pleasure isnt good enough on its own. Some hard "yakka" before you get your pudding I say. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 3:00 PM Subject: Re: Dunning langpo > In a message dated 6/2/01 4:42:56 PM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > >Murat. Maybe you could quote more of what was said because on the face > >of it > > > >it seems ridiculous to want anything to be boring. > > > > > Richard, > > As Aldon quotes Richard Kelly as saying, to be boring is a right some poets > feel they have as poets (Kelly's words, "a certain sort of boredom could be > of value.") > > The comment I referred to was directly made to me by Charles Bernstein many > years ago at the Poetry Project in relation to someone who was reading that > day (I don't remember who the person was). Charles himself may or may not > remember the event. I don't think it is an idea (the right to be boring, the > value of boredom, etc.) he would disagree with though I can't talk for him. > > It is not an idea that I don't understand (the idea is not the same as > different people finding different writers boring); I just utterly disagree > with it. To me, pleasure it is at the heart of reading or writing, a true > test. > > Murat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:27:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Funkhouser, Chris" Subject: m&r...everybody's protest poetry... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Nudel, I can't believe you are doing this again! Why are you wasting your, my, & everyone else's time sending such drivel?? I'd like to see instead your _real_ anti-anti-imperialist (or anti-racist, anti-liberal, or anti-whatever agenda), rather than taking swipes at people who are actively doing something to provoke a changes in thinking & perhaps even promoting a cultural renaissance. After last year's despicable account on the Baraka / Cecil Taylor reading, you have the nerve to report on a reading you didn't even go to again?? I'm sorry to say that the reports that reached you were WAY off the mark. The readings by Cortez and Baraka on Saturday night were incredible, really potent, as I'm sure any a/v documentation would demonstrate. Both poets performed with excellent bands, completely tight, and at the top of their game. The poetry all the way around was extraordinary. And the audience was hardly 95% white. The SRO crowd included great scholars (Fred Moten, Brent Edwards, Alan Gilbert), artists, (including dj Spooky & many other musicians, Eliot Katz) ETC ETC. Your accounters could not have presented you with more misinformation. I don't have time to do a full analysis of the gig, which also included Daniel Berrigan, Other Dimensions in Music, Raphe Malik, and others. Jayne Cortez was absolutely radiant, her band sharp, & message righteous. But since you again diss on Baraka so badly, I'd like to write a few sentences because I had a totally different perspective on it than you (esp. cause I was there), & think he's still an important voice. The band (Blue Ark): Amina Baraka (voc.), D.D. Jackson (piano), Wilber Morris (bass), Pheeroan Ak-Laff (drums), Herbie Morgan (sax), Dwight West (voc.). They played an hour set that never dragged, an arc of word and music that effectively and overtly set up a thoughtful dialect between MLK & X, with the history of the "railroad at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean made of human bones" as the overall backdrop. Not some kind of retro thing, either. What you also get is Baraka as preacher/anti-preacher railing against "A Fake President for a Counterfeit Democracy," & persecutions faced by all. Mid-set he offered a number of his "lo-ku" poems, including a bunch of new ones ("for bush II": "the only problem with you is that you're not in jail"). the group's stage presence is mature, professional, & baraka himself himself, hunched over, dropping his pages all over the stage, shuffling them just right, hitting the mic right at the right moment. His brother in law Dwight with a deep deep voice next to him at least 2 feet taller thrusting fist upward. Amina, soulful in voice & presence to his other side. & all of this is poetry of and for his people, nudel, & for all of us. you're dead wrong in your last paragraph; your scouts must have gone to a spike lee movie, or much worse. What authority do you have on the subject anyway, & what are you doing about the problems besides sending us this crap? & when Baraka says "evil was an experiment," that's poignant & hopeful. If it's a vision on the world, & we can get beyond the experiment, great for us. i think it can also be heard apologetically, and one thing Baraka has done steadily in the past 20 years is acknowledge earlier misdirections. anyway, clearly you're down on Baraka, & that's fine but wish you'd actually engage w/what he's got going on, or with what's going on it the world rather than ignorantly gripe. what is your real beef, bro? >> I missed the double-header of Amiri Baraka and Jane Cortez doing the Vision Festival at the Knitting Factory becaue I was home watching the Met game. But reports have reached me that it was the same ole tired inimitading act. The audience at 20 bucks per pop was 95 per cent white and the stray African American must have made a wrong left turn somewhere. Ms Cortez was loud and energetic...the 4 piece band including her son played back ground...'cause as is known...the message is... which the white audience ate it up...esp. poems they could understand...women is etc adj verb etc ad infinitum...man is adj verb etc ad infinitum...the audience which could actually get 'this stuff"... 41 bullets 41 bullets onebyone...bang bang...bang BANG... Mr. Baraka let the band actually play...he left the 'jew landlord stuff back in Newark..& with the petculiar hatred of the career civil servant...whose money in fully invested in the Stock market by NY State..let loose the East German rants of his youth... This is not the poetry of Kobe Bryant, Jerry Rice, the sec. of state, the national sec. advisor, the African-American woman just engineering grad of Cornell, the genuis Afro-A internet hacker, the hordes of A-A hampshire oberlin reed usc ucla strivers..this is minstrely for white folk..doo wop done again and again...it's time to retire these acts..& let 'em play the Euro festival trash circuit where Anti-Americanism still has its gone good name...and real bucks can be made off it.....Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:09:39 -0700 Reply-To: Jesse Seldess Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: antennae - premier issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ANTENNAE premier issue June 2001 Poems - Stacy Doris / Tenney Nathanson / Dan Featherston / Corey Mead / Ryan Weber / Elizabeth Landry / Patrick F. Durgin / Laura Sims / Elizabeth Robinson / Joe Amato / Liz Waldner / Jonathan VanBallenberghe / Charles Alexander / H. Kassia Fleisher / Carolyn Hembree / Brian Lennon / Barbara Cully / Gregg Biglieri Music/Performance Scores - Istvàn Zelenka / Zachary Seldess / Michael Pisaro $5.00, payable to the editor, Jesse Seldess, at PO Box 2036, Madison, WI 53701-2036. Submissions and correspondence are hoped for - use the postal address mentioned above, or use email: j_seldess@hotmail.com (there's an underscore "_" after the j). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:00:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII my heart throbs for you you sail the uncharted seas of distant lands and bleak horizons you move through mountains and valleys and the darkest forests my heart yearns for you, my eyes cry for you your love follows you in your beauty and your long flowing tresses your love follows your long golden hair and your eyes of deepest blue my arms dream of you, my legs take me towards you "for i will follow you until the ends of earth and time "for i will walk behind thee until mountains fall and valleys rise my heart, my heart, my eyes, my arms, my legs your golden voice, the pause in the middle of a word, eyes wide open eyes wide open and open wider, and eyes wider open, and open wider my heart throbs for you "for i dream of you and think of you, your voice whispering on the wind "for your beauty is deeper than the ocean and your eyes bluer than the sky my arms long to hold you in my arms, my legs yearn to hold you in my legs your eyes wide open, your eyes open wider my heart yearns for you, my crying open eyes ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 20:00:05 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Boring Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > It is not an idea that I don't understand (the idea is not the same as > different people finding different writers boring); I just utterly disagree > with it. To me, pleasure it is at the heart of reading or writing, a true > test. > Murat Yes, why would anyone read poetry but for pleasure. Especially the kind of poetry congenial with the agenda of the Poetics Digest . Yes, academics --one of my colleagues says, he finds most contemporary poets exceedingly boring but feels he has to read some Ezines just to "keep up on things." The question is simply the old question of what's "pleasure." Actually, how many people in the world are audience for this poetry/poetics, just a small handful. Most of the writing /writers are compulsive--yes there's excitement & spurts & perhaps even waves of it, but in some cases, no names mentioned, we witness the runs. One must have compassion for the dissatisfaction, the dis-ease, the writhing that fills writing. One MUST surmise from the words. Much /most writing serves as reciprocal masturbation, please, polish my ego, give it some luster, some shine. For friends to read & critique, read mine, now read mine, read mine. People writing for money--eventually know there's none-- then writing for face, writing for voice, writing to blame, writing for reasons questionable. Who's saying what's exemplary, fine, the essence of our time ( that was the orthodox line), can move us beyond conventional, intellectual horizon of mind, higher, a bit beyond, ah ha. Not just more stimulation, getting off on agitation, itching a wound. Me thinks the matter a matter of aesthetics, actual experience(not just in the head) of higher, subtler, more refined pleasure. Pleasure too is hierarchical. Always ready & easy & able to let go the coarser for the finer. The generation (the language folk, born too late for acid, never knew DMT, to early and too late to meditate), frogs in a well view of mind, still projecting shadows onto THE world & seeing the A & B & C without sensuality. Engrossed (to the point of obsession) & engorged with ideas and views, never quiet, never at rest. Again, a question of what's best. What's the goal & is there one or, is it just fresh drivel, just a queer way to say or to see. Better me thinks get back in the body, calm and clear and expand the mind & watch, observe quietly what's going on , moment by moment & not more & more & more proliferation, fabrication, excitation keeping us spinning & whirling about, about & about & about & more just about. Has someone some thing enlightening to say, mind expanding, moving-- at least the romantics were romantic, not just running sores of the tongue & mouth. The fetid breath as poetic presence becomes increasingly unappealing, students yawn at the thought of poetry, the beats become a bit boring, the language folk& they're snoring. Although not repetitive in the usual sense, you finish reading & you're always asking: yes, but so what? So what? Perhaps we can't, shouldn't, needn't ask more from poetry/poetics, Reuven BenYuhmin English Department National Central University, Taiwan > Richard, > > As Aldon quotes Richard Kelly as saying, to be boring is a right some poets > feel they have as poets (Kelly's words, "a certain sort of boredom could be > of value.") > > The comment I referred to was directly made to me by Charles Bernstein many > years ago at the Poetry Project in relation to someone who was reading that > day (I don't remember who the person was). Charles himself may or may not > remember the event. I don't think it is an idea (the right to be boring, the > value of boredom, etc.) he would disagree with though I can't talk for him. > > It is not an idea that I don't understand (the idea is not the same as > different people finding different writers boring); I just utterly disagree > with it. To me, pleasure it is at the heart of reading or writing, a true > test. > > Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:41:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Sunday in New York Comments: To: Sam Stark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The 2nd Annual Literary Magazine Fair Sunday, June 10th, Noon 'til Five pm all proceeds, as ever, to benefit Housing Works, a nonprofit organization supporting homeless people with AIDS in NY (a big piece on it in this week's TimeOut, book section) $2 sample copies and discounted subscription vouchers from 100 participating magazines: 3rd Bed, 96 Inc., African American Review, AGNI, American Book Review, American Letters and Commentary, American Poetry Review, American Tanka, Another Chicago Magazine, Antietam Review, Antioch Review, Bamboo Ridge, Barrow Street, Bellingham Review, Beloit Poetry Journal, Blueline, The Caribbean Writer, Chattahoochee Review, Chicago Review, Crab Creek Review, Conduit, Creative Nonfiction, Curious Rooms, Fine Madness, Five Points, Gargoyle, A Gathering of the Tribes, The Georgia Review, Global City Review, Green Hills Literary Lantern, Gulf Coast, Haight Ashbury Literary Journal , Hanging Loose, HEArt, Home Planet News, The Hudson Review, Iconoclast, Insurance, Jubilat, Kenning, Kenyon Review, Larcom Review, Latin American Literary Review, Laurel Review, Light Quarterly, Lilith Magazine, Literal Latté, The Literary Review, The Ledge, Long Shot, Lynx Eye, The Manhattan Review, Many Mountains Moving, Mid-American Review, Mississippi Review, The Missourri Review, Mosaic, Natural Bridge, New England Review, New Letters, New York Stories, Night Rally, No Exit, North American Review, North Dakota Quarterly, Northwest Review, Open City, Oasis, Osiris, Outerbridge, Parabola, Parnassus , Pequod, Potpourri, Powhatan Review, Prairie Schooner, Q-Review, Rattapallax, Red Rock Review, RFD, Salmagundi, Sandbox Magazine, Seneca Review, Southwest Review, Spinning Jenny, Spoon River Poetry Review, Tamame, Tar River Poetry, Terra Incognita, Tin House, Trafika, Two Lines, The Underwood Review, Urban Spaghetti, Verbatim Language Quarterly, Washington Square, Waterways, West Branch, Zingmagazine, Zoetrope: All-Story with roundtable discussion at 4 p.m.: "Community & Commodity: The Social & Cultural Importance of Literary Magazines" Panelists Marcella Durand, Erato Press; Ron Kavanaugh, Mosaic Literary Magazine; George Plimpton, The Paris Review; Rob Spillman, Tin House; Amber Dorko Stopper, Night Rally Admission is free! Brought to you by the good folks at CLMP, Fence, Literal Latte, and NYSCA ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:32:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: American Poetry Archives videos in Oakland, Sun June 10th, 2pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm forwarding this notice for a screening/video-viewing from some of The Poetry Center's American Poetry Archives videos in Oakland this coming Sunday, part of the Second Sunday series at the Stork Club. Steve =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Hi everybody, Here's a special invitation from Mary and me to join us for the last Second Sunday of the Spring--- This Sunday, June 10th, we're showing videos from the archives at the Poetry Center, of (a few of) our heroes, Louis Zukofsky, Frank O'Hara, Kathy Acker, Alice Notley, and Mei-mei Berssenbrugge. See--- Zukofsky's fabulous black beetling brows, O'Hara with a cigarette or was it a typewriter and a charming grin, Kathy Acker recruiting a young Kit Robinson and Rae Armantrout to say "fuck" quite a number of times, Notley in spaghetti straps and the alabaster skin of a 40's film star, Berssenbrugge just in from the New Mexican desert sands, all long hair and beatifically shrewd demeanor. Also, Alex Cory's band Blades of Grass will close out the afternoon with what may be their only public performance. Their music, what I've heard, is Appalachian-inspired, root-fed ballads, with haunting lyrics by poet Alex. Perfect for a mid-afternoon, early summer beer. Hope to see you! Beth Vital stats, as ever: Sunday, June 10 @ 2 p.m. Admission $2.00. 21 and over only The Stork Club is in downtown Oakland, 2330 Telegraph Ave between 23rd and 24th St. By BART: get off at 19th St, walk one block west to Telegraph, then up about 5 blocks, just past 23rd. The Stork Club has a large and vivid sign. (Our printed calendar mistakenly lists two addresses for the club; 2330 Telegraph is correct.) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:37:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: LANGUAGE PROSODY (ex. 3: hypodochmiacs in Susan Howe's "Pierce Arrow") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Slight error in the previous "lesson": Daley found "vers libre" not in "Prometheus Bound" as misstated, but in Euripides' "Hercules" (sometimes titled "The Madness of Hercules" {"Hercules Furens," not to be confused with "The Children of Hercules" or "Heracleidae"}).] ---------------------------------------- PRELIMINARY INTERJECTION: Graeco-Roman neo-classicism may have characterized ethnically monolithic European cultures, such as Racine's France, Holderlin's Germany, turn-of-the-20th-cent. America. OFF-SHOOT THOUGHT: Unsubstantiated generalization: Most first generation Language Poets appear to have come from single-language (Eng.) "American stock" ethnicities, without the sort of dual language developmental home environment of 2nd/3rd generation American families of the Eastern-European or Italian immigration waves(where a "grandparents'" language was spoken in the home. (With exceptions: Jewishness may have retained a trace Yiddischkeit.) --- Hence, perhaps, a certain ~monolingualism~ in '80s/'90s Language Poetry, and the over-all ~English only~ focus of its Language critique,--- versus, at least by comparison, the sort of Joyce-Pound polyglot poetry of Modernism. ---------------------------------------- Now, on to the topic: classical meter and Language/"post-Language" poetry. Susan Howe's '99 book "Pierce Arrow" strikes me as her perhaps most audibly metrical book. This may be due to a gradual rhythmic shift in her practice, over a long career (away from an earlier, more strongly spondee-molossus meter [ _ _ and _ _ _ ], or the heavy use of quoted material in "Pierce Arrow" that imbues the surrounding poetry of her own invention with "infectious," un-Howe cadences). By ignoring her line-breaks, the rhythms can be read as often breaking open in long stretches of quite standard iambic/dactylic/trochaic meter. There are ample internal references in the book to nominate it as a proof text for an exploration into contemporary class metrics: the book's strong Hellenism (from the opening "Phenomenology of war in the Iliad," through Hecuba, Hector, "fate metes out this and this dactyl", Achilles, Chorus of Thessalonian women, Thetis, Apollo, Patroclus, etc., etc., etc.). One of the first, easiest observations is whether a line ~starts~ with a "rising" or "falling" rhythm, based mainly on whether the first syllable is stressed or unstressed. As a starting point: One of the first verse-length metrical units that "jumped out at me" on reading is a particular, irregular 5-syllable line: / _ / _ /. By potentially being alternately catalectic (no tail, missing a final short) or acephalous ("headless," missing an initial short), it is ambiguated and cannot in and of itself be read as either iambic or trochaic. (See below for further definitions of / _ / _ / as hypodochmiac.) An inventory of such "hypodochmiacs" in "Pierce Arrow": thousandth silhouette (p. 59)* Something being true (55)* as in thought extreme where we want him flip (49) After all we want I will write to you (82) Certain things are mine (83)* paragraphs the Sixth (87) breathed and moved again (88) reading what will what (89)* scattered writing Gosse (91) Where "entagled" sic (92) record windworn sail fable now you are knowledge venom soft (93) strife in blindness not what is due from guest (104) Tristrem Tristanz Drust (141) Tristram must be caught (135) Minds trajected light (136)* * begins/ ends stanza. ...Whoops! Gotta go. To be continued. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 09:10:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: megan minka lola camille roy Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services Subject: A poem by George W. Bush MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hmmm...this may edify us-- ________________ > > > > This is a poem made up entirely of actual quotations from George W. >Bush. > > These have been arranged, only for aesthetic purposes, by Washington >Post > > writer Richard Thompson ... during National Poetry Month. > > > > MAKE THE PIE HIGHER > > by George W. Bush > > > > I think we all agree, the past is over.. > > This is still a dangerous world.. > > It's a world of madmen and uncertainty > > And potential mental losses.. > > Rarely is the question asked > > Is our children learning? > > Will the highways of the Internet > > Become more few? > > > > How many hands have I shaked? > > They misunderestimate me... > > I am a pitbull on the pantleg of opportunity... > > I know that the human being > > And the fish can coexist... > > > > Families is where our nation finds hope, > > Where our wings take dream... > > Put food on your family! > > Knock down the tollbooth! > > Vulcanize Society! > > Make the pie higher! Make the pie higher! > > ------ > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:09:52 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: Eileen In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hi maria. hi all i have a few problems. the avant-gardes of the early 1900s were against an establishment. the establishment was government, the academy and professors. the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets were an avant-garde of the seventies, also often contrary to the government, professors and academy, but working within that establishment as students. many of the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets of the seventies are now professors. at e-poetry and dac 2001 it seemed that an e-poetry avant-garde is being led by professors. does this make the student body the establishment? does this mean that the avant-garde of the early 2000s has become the establishment? or is the academy split into establishment and avant-garde? if so, has literature become a wholly academic issue totally internal to the academy? and does it mean it will disappear up its own arsehole? is the article on eileen just the awakening of some young journalist, unaware of the history and existence of a 'performance poetry/non-mainstream scene'? komninos ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:10:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Sunday in New York Redux Comments: To: Sam Stark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I can't believe that I forgot to say that The 2nd Annual Literary Magazine Fair Sunday, June 10th, Noon 'til Five pm is at Housing Works Used Book Cafe 126 Crosby Street, between Houston and Prince (F train to Broadway/Lafayette is right around the corner) ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 20:42:34 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: strasser and knoebel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Announcing the third commissioned work for Text Special Issue 2, Writing On-line/On-line Writing. Frgmnt_Four by Reiner Strasser and David Knoebel combines image, voice, text and interactive buttons to create an engaging poetic experience. You can experience this new piece at; http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/speciss/issue2/strasser.htm The authors are also on the Text_On_line e-mail discussion list and await your feedback. Start sending messages to members of this group. Text_On_line@yahoogroups.com If you would like to subscribe to the list and have not received an invitation send an e-mail to ; Text_On_line-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or you can unsubscribe at any time; Text_On_line-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com You may also visit the Yahoo! Groups web site to modify your subscriptions: http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups This group is hosted by Griffith University, School of Arts, Gold Coast. Komninos Zervos, Editor, Writing On-line/On-line Writing Text Special Issue No 2. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 08:49:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Smylie Subject: Flambe Flambaa Comments: To: John Bell , Ryan Douglas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit SNOOG (Ryan Douglas, John Bell, and Barry Smylie) Cordially invite you to play FLAMBÉ FLAMBAA (a multimedia entertainment) http://barrysmylie.com/flash/flambe/flambe.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:09:06 -0400 Reply-To: kbell@creativity-workshop.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Creativity Workshop Subject: Creativity Workshop Summer and Fall Schedule MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Creativity Workshop: Writing, Drawing, Storytelling, and Personal Memoir NEWS, June 7, 2001 Hello. Here is the latest news on the Creativity Workshop: writing, drawing, storytelling and personal memoir. This newsletter highlights our fall workshops in New York. There are also a few places left in our summer workshops in Florence and Paris. For information on cheap last minute flights and hotel options check our web site. If you are interested in reading more about the workshop, we can send you some very interesting articles and interviews which have been written about it. Please see below our Fall calendar. For more extended information please go to: http://www.creativityworkshop.com or call Tel: (212) 249-1602 Regards, Karen Bell Administrative Associate mailto:kbell@creativityworkshop.com SUMMARY 1...Creativity Workshop: General information 2...Calendar 0f Workshops: summer and fall 2001 3...Where the workshop has been taught 4...What people say about the Creativity Workshop 5...The teachers 6...To register or request more information ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1...Creativity Workshop: General Information We are all born creative, curious and imaginative but these qualities sometimes fade with the passage of time. The Creativity Workshop's goal is to help people get their imaginations back. Find your particular way of expression and break through the fears associated with creation. This internationally renowned intensive workshop brings together people of all backgrounds, cultures, and interests to discover new and exciting tools for generating creativity and thinking and working in new and exciting ways. Process not Product The Creativity Workshop is for anyone interested in expanding their creative potential. The workshop is attended by educators, artists, business executives, writers, lawyers, doctors, homemakers, advertising and design people--all with the common goal of experimenting with their imaginations and finding new ways to stimulate and expand their creative potential. Shelley Berc and Alejandro Fogel have developed a series of exercises designed to help participants develop and recognize their individual creative processes. Participants explore different artistic materials and mediums in order to discover their own unique ways of expression and to learn to break through the fears and distractions that inhibit creativity. Tools for a Lifetime The exercises used in the Creativity Workshop are intended to become the tools for a lifetime of creative expression. Participants are encouraged to draw from all kinds of resources of creativity -such as the oral tradition, dreams, childhood memories, sense perceptions and intuition. Working both individually and in collaborative groups, participants explore their imaginative potential through exercises in writing, drawing, collage, map making, story telling and guided visualization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2...Calendar Florence, Italy July 23 - August 3, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/florence.html 12 day workshop Tuition Fee: $1,500 (includes housing) (special fellowships for Italian participants available) Paris, France August 13 - 18 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/paris.html 6 day workshop Tuition Fee: $1,500 (includes housing) New York City September 15 - 16, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 2 day intensive weekend workshop: Saturday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM, Sunday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM Tuition Fee: $300 New York City October 13 - 14, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 2 day intensive weekend workshop: Saturday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM, Sunday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM Tuition Fee: $300 New York City October 22 - 26, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 5 day workshop Monday through Friday 4 to 7 PM Tuition Fee: $600 Check with us for tuition and hotel packages. New York City November 10 - 11, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 2 day intensive weekend workshop: Saturday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM, Sunday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM Tuition Fee: $300 New York City December 8 - 9, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 2 day intensive weekend workshop: Saturday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM, Sunday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM Tuition Fee: $300 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 3...The Creativity Workshop has been taught at: International Writing Program at the University of Iowa, USA, National Institute of Education at Singapore University. Singapore, University of Iowa. Iowa, USA, The Art Alliance. New York, USA, Yldiz University. Istanbul, Turkey, Nerengi Institute. Istanbul, Turkey Prima del Teatro (University of Pisa). San Miniato, Italy, Scuola Drammatica San Remo. San Remo, Italy, Academy of Drama and Film. Milan, Italy, Prague Summer Writers Workshop. Prague, Czech Republic, Writing Beyond the Walls. Lucca, Italy, Spoleto Arts Symposia. Spoleto, Italy, United World College. Trieste, Italy, Australian National University. Canberra, Australia, Australian National Playwright Conference. Canberra, Australia, NSW Writers Workshop. Sydney, Australia, Performance Studies Department. University of Sydney. Sydney, Australia, Hungarian Ethnic Artists Festival. Kisvarda, Hungary, Art School of the Aegean. Samos, Greece, Scuola Sagarana. Lucca, Italy, among others. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 4...What people say about the Creativity Workshop "The new millennium needs bold, creative men and women who can turn their dreams into reality... Shelley Berc and Alejandro Fogel show how you can do this through their challenging and inspiring creativity workshops...even a simple first contact will prove what these two talented teachers can do for your own gifts." Dr. Kirpal Singh, Writer, Professor, Singapore Management University. "The Creativity Workshop in Spoleto has been a very special experience for me. It opened up new ways to look at my work and I found new friendships. I spent 15 fantastic days in an incredible place. Shelley and Alejandro are superb teachers!" Vera Eisenberg, painter, Argentina "The Workshop was such a powerful experience for me, something I never expected nor would I ever be able to repeat it." Rolfe Werner, Engineer. Canberra, Australia. "I found the workshop extremely valuable in generating awareness of my creativity and in stimulating ideas." Jeanne Arthur, Executive Officer, ACT Board of Secondary School Studies. Canberra, Australia. "I feel as though I now have a focus, a method, a way of evolving my ideas and that the means are just as important as the end. I have created environments just to create in, and environments just to display the work in. My vision of attending to each detail, sound, smell, texture, substance... is starting to find a home. Thanks for opening my eyes to these essential aspects of creating through your guidance and example." Student. University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA. "This class was THE MOST enriching, enlightening, inspirational class I have ever taken. The way I work and what I create will never be the same." Student. University of Iowa, USA. "Shelley and Alejandro's Creativity Workshop is amazing in that it breaks down all your fears about thinking and writing. If it wasn't for them I fear I never would have finished my master's thesis. I was blocked until I took this course." Francesca Salidu PHD candidate in Shakespeare, University of Pisa. San Miniato, Italy. "Shelley Berc and Alejandro Fogel taught their Creativity Workshop as American Cultural Specialists under the United States Information Service auspices. To say that they were extremely effective is a vast understatement. I would unreservedly recommend their course. They have abundant creativity, energy, and a wealth of skills." Gloria Berbena, Asst. Cultural Attaché, US Information Service, US Embassy. Rome, Italy. "A special experience. Berc and Fogel opened us up to new and wonderful ways of looking at our creativity." Belkis Bottfeld, PHD, psychologist. Istanbul, Turkey. "An unforgettable course!" Gulnur Ayaz, MD. Istanbul, Turkey. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 5...The teachers Shelley Berc is a writer and teacher. She is a professor of the International Writing Program at the University of Iowa. Her novels, plays, and essays which include 'The Shape of Wilderness', 'A Girl's Guide to the Divine Comedy' and 'Theatre of the Mind' have been published by Coffee House Press, Johns Hopkins Press, Heinemann Books, Performing Arts Journal and Theatre Communications Group Press. Her plays have been produced by theatres such as the American Repertory Theatre, the Yale Rep, and the Edinburgh Festival. Alejandro Fogel is a visual artist and teacher working in painting, site installations, video and digital art. He has exhibited his works in galleries and museums in Argentina, Bulgaria, Cuba, France, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, United States and Germany. His ongoing project 'Root to Route' chronicles his father's journey through the Holocaust years. His work is in private collections and museums around the world. Berc and Fogel explain in theory and demonstrate in practice the concepts of originality, 'appropriation', memory and imagination. Under their guidance, participants explore their own creative processes through different writing and drawing exercises. They emphasize the intimate link between personal and public spheres, individual and social practices, history and myth, dream and reality. The focus of the workshop is on process not product and to help participants find life-long tools of creative expression. Shelley Berc and Alejandro Fogel have taught their Creativity Workshop internationally. They have lectured on creativity and their own work at universities and cultural centers throughout the world. They currently teach the Creativity Workshop as an intensive semester long course at the International Writing Program of The University of Iowa. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6...To register or to request more information please contact Karen Bell: mailto:kbell@creativityworkshop.com or register online at: http://www.creativityworkshop.com or call Tel: (212) 249-1602 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TO BE REMOVED FROM THIS LIST If you have received this mailing in error, or do not wish to receive any further mailings please go to: http://www.creativityworkshop.com/join.html Click on the unsubscribe option and you will be removed from this list automatically. PLEASE NOTE: our e-mails are never unsolicited. You are receiving this because you either registered for our newsletter on our website with your email address or through an opt-in email list affiliate. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:40:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: new issue and a call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William J Allegrezza wrote: > The url is www.moriapoetry.com. -------------- Sorry. That info was outside the frame of my viewer. Now I know. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:22:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: m&r...everybody's protest poetry... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This has to be bout the most bizarre posting I've ever read on this list -- Nobody who has actually read Jayne Cortez's works or heard recordings of her with musicians will recognize the hateful portrayal below -- And, having sat not all that long ago in a room at Howard University filled with a mostly black audience from all over the city, I can testify that Mr. Nudel's rather condescending effort to speak on behalf of the "real?" black audience misses the mark by a couple of continents -- What the hell is motivating this??????? At 12:31 PM 6/6/01 -0400, you wrote: > I missed the double-header of Amiri Baraka and Jane Cortez doing the >Vision Festival at the Knitting Factory becaue I was home watching the Met >game. But reports have reached me that it was the same ole tired inimitading >act. The audience at 20 bucks per pop was 95 per cent white and the stray >African American must have made a wrong left turn somewhere. > > Ms Cortez was loud and energetic...the 4 piece band including her son >played back ground...'cause as is known...the message is... which the white >audience ate it up...esp. poems they could understand...women is etc adj >verb etc ad infinitum...man is adj verb etc ad infinitum...the audience >which could actually get 'this stuff"... 41 bullets 41 bullets >onebyone...bang bang...bang BANG... > > Mr. Baraka let the band actually play...he left the 'jew landlord stuff >back in Newark..& with the petculiar hatred of the career civil >servant...whose money in fully invested in the Stock market by NY State..let >loose the East German rants of his youth... > > This is not the poetry of Kobe Bryant, Jerry Rice, the sec. of state, >the national sec. advisor, the African-American woman just engineering grad >of Cornell, the genuis Afro-A internet hacker, the hordes of A-A hampshire >oberlin reed usc ucla strivers..this is minstrely for white folk..doo wop >done again and again...it's time to retire these acts..& let 'em play the >Euro festival trash circuit where Anti-Americanism still has its gone good >name...and real bucks can be made off it.....Drn... " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:35:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: chris stroffolino Subject: Re: m&r...everybody's protest poetry... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nudel, I respectfully second Mr. Funkhouser's comments... though I was in Baltimore at the time, I've seen Baraka oft before, and CF rings true.... C "Funkhouser, Chris" wrote: > Nudel, > > I can't believe you are doing this again! > > Why are you wasting your, my, & everyone else's time > sending such drivel?? I'd like to see instead your > _real_ anti-anti-imperialist (or anti-racist, anti-liberal, or anti-whatever > agenda), rather than taking swipes at people who are actively doing > something to provoke a changes in thinking & perhaps even promoting a > cultural renaissance. > > After last year's despicable account on the > Baraka / Cecil Taylor reading, you have the nerve > to report on a reading you didn't even go to again?? > > I'm sorry to say that the reports that reached > you were WAY off the mark. The readings by Cortez > and Baraka on Saturday night were incredible, really potent, > as I'm sure any a/v documentation would demonstrate. > Both poets performed with excellent bands, completely tight, > and at the top of their game. The poetry all the way around was > extraordinary. And the audience was hardly 95% white. The SRO crowd > included great scholars (Fred Moten, Brent Edwards, Alan Gilbert), > artists, (including dj Spooky & many other musicians, Eliot Katz) ETC ETC. > Your accounters could not have presented you with more misinformation. > > I don't have time to do a full analysis of the gig, which > also included Daniel Berrigan, Other Dimensions in Music, > Raphe Malik, and others. Jayne Cortez was absolutely radiant, her band > sharp, & message righteous. But since you again diss on Baraka > so badly, I'd like to write a few sentences because I had a > totally different perspective on it than you (esp. cause I was there), > & think he's still an important voice. > > The band (Blue Ark): Amina Baraka (voc.), D.D. Jackson (piano), Wilber > Morris (bass), Pheeroan Ak-Laff (drums), Herbie Morgan (sax), Dwight > West (voc.). They played an hour set that never dragged, an arc of word and > music that effectively and overtly set up a thoughtful dialect between MLK & > X, with the history of the "railroad at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean > made of human bones" as the overall backdrop. Not some kind of retro thing, > either. What you also get is Baraka as preacher/anti-preacher railing > against "A Fake President for a Counterfeit Democracy," & persecutions faced > by all. Mid-set he offered a number of his "lo-ku" poems, including a bunch > of new ones ("for bush II": "the only problem with you is that you're not > in jail"). the group's stage presence is mature, professional, & baraka > himself himself, hunched over, dropping his > pages all over the stage, shuffling them just right, hitting the > mic right at the right moment. His brother in law Dwight with a > deep deep voice next to him at least 2 feet taller thrusting > fist upward. Amina, soulful in voice & > presence to his other side. & all of this is poetry of and for his people, > nudel, & for all of us. you're dead wrong in your last > paragraph; your scouts must have gone to a spike lee movie, or much > worse. What authority do you have on the subject anyway, & what > are you doing about the problems besides sending us this crap? > > & when Baraka says "evil was an experiment," that's poignant & hopeful. If > it's a vision > on the world, & we can get beyond the experiment, great for us. i think it > can also be heard apologetically, and one thing Baraka has done steadily in > the > past 20 years is acknowledge earlier misdirections. > > anyway, clearly you're down on Baraka, & that's fine but wish > you'd actually engage w/what he's got going on, or with what's > going on it the world rather than ignorantly gripe. > > what is your real beef, bro? > > >> > > I missed the double-header of Amiri Baraka and Jane Cortez doing the > Vision Festival at the Knitting Factory becaue I was home watching the Met > game. But reports have reached me that it was the same ole tired inimitading > act. The audience at 20 bucks per pop was 95 per cent white and the stray > African American must have made a wrong left turn somewhere. > > Ms Cortez was loud and energetic...the 4 piece band including her son > played back ground...'cause as is known...the message is... which the white > audience ate it up...esp. poems they could understand...women is etc adj > verb etc ad infinitum...man is adj verb etc ad infinitum...the audience > which could actually get 'this stuff"... 41 bullets 41 bullets > onebyone...bang bang...bang BANG... > > Mr. Baraka let the band actually play...he left the 'jew landlord stuff > back in Newark..& with the petculiar hatred of the career civil > servant...whose money in fully invested in the Stock market by NY State..let > loose the East German rants of his youth... > > This is not the poetry of Kobe Bryant, Jerry Rice, the sec. of state, > the national sec. advisor, the African-American woman just engineering grad > of Cornell, the genuis Afro-A internet hacker, the hordes of A-A hampshire > oberlin reed usc ucla strivers..this is minstrely for white folk..doo wop > done again and again...it's time to retire these acts..& let 'em play the > Euro festival trash circuit where Anti-Americanism still has its gone good > name...and real bucks can be made off it.....Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:53:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Allen H. Bramhall" Subject: from Potes&Poiet Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit excuse the promotion but... rOlling COMBers -- John M Bennett $14 / 200p just a note to say that Potes & Poets Press has just published rOlling COMBers by John M Bennett. Mr Bennett is an iconoclast. his work has been called concrete poetry but that term, like the term language poetry (which might apply to Bennett's work as well), seems merely limiting at this point. leave it to say that the work here utilizes different fonts and typography as well as John's unique hieroglyphic to produce an almost 3-dimensional effect. crosscurrents of sound and sight combine with 'meaning', whatever that might be, upon the playground called Poetry. the effect is rare, rich and exhilarating. John's work is seen all over in print magazines and on line, but the Derby distance of this book (some 200 pages) provides a terrific, even exalting, momentum. one can take an absolutely giddy reading from this work, an excitement of language at work and play. best of all, this work is purchasable, via: www.potespoets.org www.spdbooks.org or use a stamp and send to: Potes &Poets World Headquarters at 2 Ten Acres Dr Bedford MA 01730 thanks ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:02:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Boring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/8/01 11:09:08 AM, robert@IM.MGT.NCU.EDU.TW writes: >Yes, why would anyone read poetry but for pleasure. Especially the kind >of >poetry congenial with the agenda of the Poetics Digest I suppose this means that the only poetry Mr. Reuven finds pleasurable is the poetry congenial with the Poetics Digest agenda. Otherwise, I don't know where he got the idea from my words. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:26:24 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Boring In-Reply-To: <200106081204.f58C4Q309031@im.mgt.ncu.edu.tw> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry Other than Pleasure (whether aloud or quietly to myself) 1. I read poetry out of habit. 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need for suffering. 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force myself to see other ways of writing, of saying. 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored and they need something to do. 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, I've read it without thinking about it, without reason. 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. 8. I read poetry because language is a virus and I've been infected. 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's ego. 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or disappointed. 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which is not the same thing as pleasure). Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a person would read poetry for reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many editors suffer through much of their submissions. My point here is that there is so much of what we do has "no reason" or no conscious propagation; some of us just end up reading it. I'm obviously reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of hedonistic enterprise. For me, poetry is just way too complicated a thing for me to find one central root, one core reason, for reading it. Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams unowned. Thanks, Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Reuven BenYuhmin > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 8:00 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Boring > > > > It is not an idea that I don't understand (the idea is not the same as > > different people finding different writers boring); I just > utterly disagree > > with it. To me, pleasure it is at the heart of reading or > writing, a true > > test. > > > Murat > > Yes, why would anyone read poetry but for pleasure. Especially the kind of > poetry congenial with the agenda of the Poetics Digest . Yes, academics > --one of my colleagues says, he finds most contemporary poets exceedingly > boring but feels he has to read some Ezines just to "keep up on things." > The question is simply the old question of what's "pleasure." > > Reuven BenYuhmin > English Department > National Central University, Taiwan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:12:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Re: Eileen In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Doesn't "The performance/non mainstream scene" become mainstream by virtue of its existence and history? Doesn't everything overtime "regularize" itself, and isn't that regularization simply an outcome of the consumer culture that even poetry belongs to? Maxine Chernoff On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, komninos zervos wrote: > hi maria. > hi all > > i have a few problems. > > the avant-gardes of the early 1900s were against an establishment. > the establishment was government, the academy and professors. > the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets were an avant-garde of the seventies, also > often contrary to the government, professors and academy, but working > within that establishment as students. > many of the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets of the seventies are now professors. > at e-poetry and dac 2001 it seemed that an e-poetry avant-garde is > being led by professors. does this make the student body the > establishment? > does this mean that the avant-garde of the early 2000s has become the > establishment? > or is the academy split into establishment and avant-garde? > > if so, has literature become a wholly academic issue totally internal > to the academy? > > and does it mean it will disappear up its own arsehole? > > > > > > is the article on eileen just the awakening of some young journalist, > unaware of the history and existence of a 'performance > poetry/non-mainstream scene'? > > > komninos > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:50:21 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Randolph Healy Subject: Birthday Boy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for cross posting: Our fifth child and first boy, Teddy, will be one year old tomorrow. Click on the link at http://www.wildhoneypress.com to see some pictures and a poem. best wishes Randolph ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 22:27:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Speed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Speed Scalar value @a[$gen] better written as $a[$gen] at ./parent line 73.: Scalar value @adj[$newpick] better written as $adj[$newpick] at ./parent line 73:.:Scalar value @noun[$non] better written as $noun[$non] at ./parent line 73.:already this is gone, used up, senseless, as typed: the world refuses to move fast enough: i want the future anterior taking me back beyond my death: Where is this taking us, in the future?:: Oh well, let's get going! addup hstrip netintro sedsearch stripper creating the perfect institution / museum :my mind covers decades in a bad night's sleep; it ranges fiercely Hold on right there! One second! already discarding that other dawn; it can't identify: schizoid it $a[15+$pre] at ./parent line 94. bleakly continues past "yesterday's written text" :5507:4:when i look back again at yesterday's written text, i see Scalar value @noun[$non] better written as $noun[$non] at ./parent line 73. something so old, i'm ./parent decathected, i'm at a @adj[$newpick] loss about her: was this something i had filter laptop project.txt stream written, better written as $a[$gen3] \?:already this is gone, used up, senseless, as typed: the world refuses to move fast enough: i want the future anterior taking me back beyond my death: Where is this taking us, in the future?:: Oh well, let's get going! addup hstrip netintro sedsearch stripper creating the perfect institution / museum :Scalar value @adj[$newpick] better written as $adj[$newpick] at ./parent line 73 loss about him: _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:02:45 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Funkhousers WRONG m&r...everybody's protest poetry... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Funkhouser I enjoy this drivel as you call it. If I were you I would stop hampering someone's creativity and work on your own! Or at least re-read your WCW to properly quote him Geoffrey Gatza ----- Original Message ----- From: Funkhouser, Chris To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:27 AM Subject: m&r...everybody's protest poetry... > Nudel, > > I can't believe you are doing this again! > > Why are you wasting your, my, & everyone else's time > sending such drivel?? I'd like to see instead your > _real_ anti-anti-imperialist (or anti-racist, anti-liberal, or anti-whatever > agenda), rather than taking swipes at people who are actively doing > something to provoke a changes in thinking & perhaps even promoting a > cultural renaissance. > > After last year's despicable account on the > Baraka / Cecil Taylor reading, you have the nerve > to report on a reading you didn't even go to again?? > > I'm sorry to say that the reports that reached > you were WAY off the mark. The readings by Cortez > and Baraka on Saturday night were incredible, really potent, > as I'm sure any a/v documentation would demonstrate. > Both poets performed with excellent bands, completely tight, > and at the top of their game. The poetry all the way around was > extraordinary. And the audience was hardly 95% white. The SRO crowd > included great scholars (Fred Moten, Brent Edwards, Alan Gilbert), > artists, (including dj Spooky & many other musicians, Eliot Katz) ETC ETC. > Your accounters could not have presented you with more misinformation. > > I don't have time to do a full analysis of the gig, which > also included Daniel Berrigan, Other Dimensions in Music, > Raphe Malik, and others. Jayne Cortez was absolutely radiant, her band > sharp, & message righteous. But since you again diss on Baraka > so badly, I'd like to write a few sentences because I had a > totally different perspective on it than you (esp. cause I was there), > & think he's still an important voice. > > The band (Blue Ark): Amina Baraka (voc.), D.D. Jackson (piano), Wilber > Morris (bass), Pheeroan Ak-Laff (drums), Herbie Morgan (sax), Dwight > West (voc.). They played an hour set that never dragged, an arc of word and > music that effectively and overtly set up a thoughtful dialect between MLK & > X, with the history of the "railroad at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean > made of human bones" as the overall backdrop. Not some kind of retro thing, > either. What you also get is Baraka as preacher/anti-preacher railing > against "A Fake President for a Counterfeit Democracy," & persecutions faced > by all. Mid-set he offered a number of his "lo-ku" poems, including a bunch > of new ones ("for bush II": "the only problem with you is that you're not > in jail"). the group's stage presence is mature, professional, & baraka > himself himself, hunched over, dropping his > pages all over the stage, shuffling them just right, hitting the > mic right at the right moment. His brother in law Dwight with a > deep deep voice next to him at least 2 feet taller thrusting > fist upward. Amina, soulful in voice & > presence to his other side. & all of this is poetry of and for his people, > nudel, & for all of us. you're dead wrong in your last > paragraph; your scouts must have gone to a spike lee movie, or much > worse. What authority do you have on the subject anyway, & what > are you doing about the problems besides sending us this crap? > > & when Baraka says "evil was an experiment," that's poignant & hopeful. If > it's a vision > on the world, & we can get beyond the experiment, great for us. i think it > can also be heard apologetically, and one thing Baraka has done steadily in > the > past 20 years is acknowledge earlier misdirections. > > anyway, clearly you're down on Baraka, & that's fine but wish > you'd actually engage w/what he's got going on, or with what's > going on it the world rather than ignorantly gripe. > > what is your real beef, bro? > > > > >> > > I missed the double-header of Amiri Baraka and Jane Cortez doing the > Vision Festival at the Knitting Factory becaue I was home watching the Met > game. But reports have reached me that it was the same ole tired inimitading > act. The audience at 20 bucks per pop was 95 per cent white and the stray > African American must have made a wrong left turn somewhere. > > Ms Cortez was loud and energetic...the 4 piece band including her son > played back ground...'cause as is known...the message is... which the white > audience ate it up...esp. poems they could understand...women is etc adj > verb etc ad infinitum...man is adj verb etc ad infinitum...the audience > which could actually get 'this stuff"... 41 bullets 41 bullets > onebyone...bang bang...bang BANG... > > Mr. Baraka let the band actually play...he left the 'jew landlord stuff > back in Newark..& with the petculiar hatred of the career civil > servant...whose money in fully invested in the Stock market by NY State..let > loose the East German rants of his youth... > > This is not the poetry of Kobe Bryant, Jerry Rice, the sec. of state, > the national sec. advisor, the African-American woman just engineering grad > of Cornell, the genuis Afro-A internet hacker, the hordes of A-A hampshire > oberlin reed usc ucla strivers..this is minstrely for white folk..doo wop > done again and again...it's time to retire these acts..& let 'em play the > Euro festival trash circuit where Anti-Americanism still has its gone good > name...and real bucks can be made off it.....Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 17:16:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dunning langpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/31/01 7:37:39 AM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << Richard, I am sorry for the delayed reply. You quoted me wrongly. I did not say "inherently boring." I said a language poet claimed (his words): "poetry can be legitimately boring." That is, I suppose, boredom (even by an intelligent reader) is a right of the poet. Well, I don't think so. Murat >> Let's not forget Frank O'Hara who insisted that poetry should be at least as interesting as the movies. Considering his taste in movies, it's no surprise he liked his poetry with a dash of glamour. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:06:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: re m&r....more protesting Haven't had time to peruse the latest comments...since i;m off to the beach house in the hamptons... see myself as an equal opportunity disliker of those who are more famous and ri$$er than moi...this narrows the circle to pretty much every one... Couldn't help but notice 2/3 .edu...'member jobs, promotions, recommendations, pub., raises, intro., awards, grants, stipends, Yadoo, & the Prix de Rome all 'pend on the proper coordination of knee and tongue....keep yr eyez on the prize...DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:29:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: /tomorrows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII /tomorrows Alan Sondheim>> Alan, I'm going to say this once and for all. You're alone here: You're flying high, you're faster than anyone else, no one can keep up with you, your speed is amazing, it's incredible, you won't even be around to hear this, you're faster t han the speed of sound, terahertz speed, petahertz speed - Alan Sondheim>> Alan, I can't read this, it's going too fast, you're thinking too fast for me, you're way ahead of me, you're ahead of anyone else, you're so far thinking, your work is out of sight, no one can fathom you, it will be centuries, millennia, b efore you're fathomed, it's unbelievable, this speed, this faster-than-lightning speed, this faster-than-light-in-vacuo speed - PRIVATE MSG: Alan Sondheim>> Alan, this is just to you, you'll hardly be able to read this, you're at the far shores of the universe, you're farther than the farthest shores, you're bending light itself, you're comin back to visit, you're leaving again, you're sailing fast in empty space, you're one with the neutrinos, solar winds, fluxes, virtual particles, dark matter, strings of all sorts, you're thinner than the emptiest of spaces, you're replete, you're gone ag i n, your thought is terrific, your thought is more than terrific, you're faster than tachyons, you're reversing matter and energy, you're universal everywhere, you're more advanced than anyone has ever been, you're more advanced than anyone could ever be you're out there, you're fantastic - PRIVATE MSG: Alan Sondheim>> Alan, this is just for you, you, you, amazing amazing amazing - Alan Sondheim>> Alan, I can't believe this, <-------- ---- --------> thinking! /tomorrows ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:33:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Eileen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed GEE Kominos,, i've just read the below stuff,, from my view here in Australia you seem to be continually cushy with the establishment//pete spence > >hi maria. >hi all > >i have a few problems. > >the avant-gardes of the early 1900s were against an establishment. >the establishment was government, the academy and professors. >the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets were an avant-garde of the seventies, also >often contrary to the government, professors and academy, but working >within that establishment as students. >many of the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets of the seventies are now professors. >at e-poetry and dac 2001 it seemed that an e-poetry avant-garde is >being led by professors. does this make the student body the >establishment? >does this mean that the avant-garde of the early 2000s has become the >establishment? >or is the academy split into establishment and avant-garde? > >if so, has literature become a wholly academic issue totally internal >to the academy? > >and does it mean it will disappear up its own arsehole? > > > > > >is the article on eileen just the awakening of some young journalist, >unaware of the history and existence of a 'performance >poetry/non-mainstream scene'? > > >komninos _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:09:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: normalization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII normalization dekadeci amperes centihecto bytes kilomilli volts micromega degrees giganano hectares picotera grams petafemto meters exaatto farads _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:52:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: split ii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - split ii login nikuko login nikuko login nikuko login nikuko stuttering ss the roy awe're at codloss here aring w' nikuko atuko b ondetteringnikdering won ikukg walkandering stuoiikuko wher i'm nikuko n'm offering wbody can myuou my body n have tak cabody youy i'iyembe can dy y bt you oakme me itake re and how nttake me t no y t wou candoi point takemethismy breasts are there t u or yskin fy is f an you you skin aomtherorethere it's you cyfocan see mr my eess sere haitor youe 's thou all f's r yityouyou have to come s take it to be andhavko you ikun you enthe and you ake it and comean tt's yours it's all take me ciurs'my holes yo e yous my eyes ar 'rre yomy rs thiice us i my speech my throat as ismy hand t my le vothishis is this is yours this ishis is tyou g want mant me you ou want yarder ewher and rder hardme hardand hant me so you w can't hard k straight ayouthiknt's impossible i never veso good hou you' this efore yr had adbeat all ve nevhis i'm nikuko twandering i'm running 'kuko wandering m nidering ianwhere ver 'wynik from gniuko ruouning from the w eukonnin ruorld ynniuko being world nikuko e you being yo hbeinglosing her self in you drowning in t cumming ouu in bein ou yoy y g _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:36:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T Pelton Subject: Pelton on WBFO Comments: To: Alan Bigelow , Brad Hollingshead , Brian Kantz , Charles Bernstein , Courtney Grim , Ed Taylor , Elizabeth Licata , Faust , Gerald Erion , James Brace , John Donohue , Mark Lavatelli , Paula Wachowiak , Randy Morrison , Robert Creeley , Sandy Faiella , Terri Katz Kasimov , kenningpoetics@hotmail.com, foust@acsu.buffalo.edu, Valerie Pawlowski , sch@pce.net, "Maloney,Dennis" , Julie Zando , Bob Pohl , marta l werner , schlesinger , geoffrey kelly , jjlafond@hotmail.com, rustbeltbooks@prodigy.net, nschmitz@acsu.buffalo.edu, Mike Kelleher , frodgers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please excuse the blatant self-promotion, but I wanted to make my Buffalo friends aware that my interview on WBFO's Spoken Arts Radio with Mary Van Vorst will be broadcast this week, at three times: Thursday morning, June 14, at 6:30 am and 8:35 am, and Sunday, June 17, at 8:35 am. The interviewed was taped a couple of weeks ago, and I discussed my book, Endorsed by Jack Chapeau, and tangential issues -- language, sentences, politics, the Gulf War & the late Timothy McVeigh, etc. WBFO is 88.7 FM in Buffalo. If you never want me to tell you anything like this again, please reply with the subject line Go Away. Some recipients in the past have complained that writing Go Away Loser in the subject line stimulates a flurry of unintelligible responses, many of which verge on invective. I regret this, but cannot be held reponsible for the sensitive nature of my automatic response program. Ted Pelton ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:36:58 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: Eileen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" hi kominos hi all I can understand you have problems. you need more history, or memory. For instance,the avant-garde wasn't against an establishment. i can remember when establishments began--it was sometime in the 1960s. about the same time as modernism came along. and if there had been an establishment in the 1900s it wasn't the one you describe, but one which the church, the class system,had a part to play. L= poets in the 70s were getting a formal education and getting a job like everyone else in their generation, i don't call that 'working within the establishment as students'. i'm comfortable about their being an avant-garde circa 1900-1910, but not with there being one circa 2000-2010. change happens. Though arseholes are forever. wystan -----Original Message----- From: komninos zervos [mailto:k.zervos@MAILBOX.GU.EDU.AU] Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2001 3:10 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Eileen hi maria. hi all i have a few problems. the avant-gardes of the early 1900s were against an establishment. the establishment was government, the academy and professors. the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets were an avant-garde of the seventies, also often contrary to the government, professors and academy, but working within that establishment as students. many of the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets of the seventies are now professors. at e-poetry and dac 2001 it seemed that an e-poetry avant-garde is being led by professors. does this make the student body the establishment? does this mean that the avant-garde of the early 2000s has become the establishment? or is the academy split into establishment and avant-garde? if so, has literature become a wholly academic issue totally internal to the academy? and does it mean it will disappear up its own arsehole? is the article on eileen just the awakening of some young journalist, unaware of the history and existence of a 'performance poetry/non-mainstream scene'? komninos ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:36:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hoa Nguyen Subject: New Possum Pouch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Check out The Possum Pouch June 2001 An irregular publication of essays, notes and reviews at http://www.skankypossum.com. DON'T MISS OUT--THIS ISSUE WILL EXPIRE AND WILL NOT BE ARCHIVED. FEATURING === Dispatch from the Zamboni Speedway by Rich Lather === Where Travis Ortiz and Jono Schneider race their ice resurfacing machines in a grueling duel of poetry chapbooks. (excerpt) “Schneider and Ortiz incited the crowd as they skipped onto the drag strip – Ortiz with sayings from Francis Ponge, Paul Klee, The American Heritage Dictionary, Heidegger, Blanchot, Zack de la Rocha and others listed on the rear spoiler, and Schneider with adages from Foucault, Barkmarket, Nietzsche, Talk Talk and Wittgenstein, whose motor oil played lubricant in the revered Jono High Subaltern Engine or ‘Mystique Philosophic.’” === Linh Dinh on Vietnamese Magic === The poetry of belief... (excerpt) “A child with a drowned relative must wear a brass anklet to insure against being ‘dragged’ to a similar death later in life. A child under ten is discouraged from looking into a mirror, lest his soul, the image in the mirror, will start to play tricks with him.” === Thomas Fink on Ashbery === "Assume Your Places on the Shuffleboard": Ashbery in the Millenium === Carl Thayler: intro by Dale Smith, interview by Kent Johnson=== (excerpt) Thayler: “History is always the present - the same good guys vs. the same assholes, repeating the same gestures. Kabuki. I try to freshen the retelling, catch an ear now and then.” === Pouch Notes by Dale Smith === Regarding Pierre Joris' selected poems, _Poasis_, among other things. === Dig it! === Possum recommended links, dig. ....... We welcome responses and pouch submissions--write to skankypossum@hotmail.com. ** Please forgive cross postings ** _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:42:49 -0600 Reply-To: maryangeline@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Angeline Subject: lost friends MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi List People, I'm trying to find email addresses for: Norma Cole, Keith Waldrop,Lew Daly and/or Pam Rhem. Please back channel me if anyone out there has these handy. Thanks, Mary Angeline p.s. don't worry i'm not trying to sell them anything. ----- Original Message ----- From: Barrett Watten To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: 6/6/01 4:16:57 PM Subject: Essay on Bob Perelman Just released: Joel Nickels, "Post-Avant-Gardism: Bob Perelman and the Dialectic of Futural Memory," in Postmodern Culture 11, no 3. --- Mary Angeline Peace Happy Blessings ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:22:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Ramez Qureshi correspondence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Many readers of this list knew or knew of Ramez Qureshi, critic and poet, who died in March of this year. Ramez and I corresponded quite a bit by email, during and after the period he was working on a review of my book "Theoretical Objects". Ramez was an engaging and challenging writer who could openly express support and enthusiasm, yet hold strongly to his own convictions, questioning facile stances and categorizations. Despite the fact that I knew him all too briefly, he will be greatly missed. Some of these complex aspects of his thinking and personality came into play, I feel, in the course our correspondence, which is now available, virtually unedited, at the Electronic Poetry Center. A bibliography of some of his writing, along with URLS, is available also at the EPC, in the latest issue of Read Me. My thanks to Loss Pequeno Glazier for his generous work on this project. Nick Piombino Nick Piombino http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/piombino/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 01:22:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Kenji Siratori publication (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Please take a look at Spasm by Kenji Siratori El-cheapo books ISBN 1-903548-14-9 This collection of hypereal, cyberfiction is a the reaction of the visible-human to everything that is vital hypermodern-translation and respire our era. --the development of the insanity in the middle of the DNA=channel that gotcomplicated! http://www.elcheapobooks.com/shop/quickcat.htm ---Beautiful! - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:36:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dorothy Trujillo Lusk Subject: tetris/help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3rd try to get this message out...I need to find where/how to download a very basic Tetris game with sugar plum fairy background music for necessary lull-time while I'm doing writing/thinking/vegging. My hard-drive recently suicided & my beloved, necessary Tetris didn't phoenix. Please Help!!! All Best, Trujillo/Lusk XXXXDOTTIXXXX ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:42:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: m&r...everybody's protest poetry... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" yay chris At 9:27 AM -0400 6/7/01, Funkhouser, Chris wrote: >Nudel, > >I can't believe you are doing this again! > >Why are you wasting your, my, & everyone else's time >sending such drivel?? I'd like to see instead your >_real_ anti-anti-imperialist (or anti-racist, anti-liberal, or anti-whatever >agenda), rather than taking swipes at people who are actively doing >something to provoke a changes in thinking & perhaps even promoting a >cultural renaissance. > >After last year's despicable account on the >Baraka / Cecil Taylor reading, you have the nerve >to report on a reading you didn't even go to again?? > >I'm sorry to say that the reports that reached >you were WAY off the mark. The readings by Cortez >and Baraka on Saturday night were incredible, really potent, >as I'm sure any a/v documentation would demonstrate. >Both poets performed with excellent bands, completely tight, >and at the top of their game. The poetry all the way around was >extraordinary. And the audience was hardly 95% white. The SRO crowd >included great scholars (Fred Moten, Brent Edwards, Alan Gilbert), >artists, (including dj Spooky & many other musicians, Eliot Katz) ETC ETC. >Your accounters could not have presented you with more misinformation. > >I don't have time to do a full analysis of the gig, which >also included Daniel Berrigan, Other Dimensions in Music, >Raphe Malik, and others. Jayne Cortez was absolutely radiant, her band >sharp, & message righteous. But since you again diss on Baraka >so badly, I'd like to write a few sentences because I had a >totally different perspective on it than you (esp. cause I was there), >& think he's still an important voice. > >The band (Blue Ark): Amina Baraka (voc.), D.D. Jackson (piano), Wilber >Morris (bass), Pheeroan Ak-Laff (drums), Herbie Morgan (sax), Dwight >West (voc.). They played an hour set that never dragged, an arc of word and >music that effectively and overtly set up a thoughtful dialect between MLK & >X, with the history of the "railroad at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean >made of human bones" as the overall backdrop. Not some kind of retro thing, >either. What you also get is Baraka as preacher/anti-preacher railing >against "A Fake President for a Counterfeit Democracy," & persecutions faced >by all. Mid-set he offered a number of his "lo-ku" poems, including a bunch >of new ones ("for bush II": "the only problem with you is that you're not >in jail"). the group's stage presence is mature, professional, & baraka >himself himself, hunched over, dropping his >pages all over the stage, shuffling them just right, hitting the >mic right at the right moment. His brother in law Dwight with a >deep deep voice next to him at least 2 feet taller thrusting >fist upward. Amina, soulful in voice & >presence to his other side. & all of this is poetry of and for his people, >nudel, & for all of us. you're dead wrong in your last >paragraph; your scouts must have gone to a spike lee movie, or much >worse. What authority do you have on the subject anyway, & what >are you doing about the problems besides sending us this crap? > >& when Baraka says "evil was an experiment," that's poignant & hopeful. If >it's a vision >on the world, & we can get beyond the experiment, great for us. i think it >can also be heard apologetically, and one thing Baraka has done steadily in >the >past 20 years is acknowledge earlier misdirections. > >anyway, clearly you're down on Baraka, & that's fine but wish >you'd actually engage w/what he's got going on, or with what's >going on it the world rather than ignorantly gripe. > >what is your real beef, bro? > > > >>> > > I missed the double-header of Amiri Baraka and Jane Cortez doing the >Vision Festival at the Knitting Factory becaue I was home watching the Met >game. But reports have reached me that it was the same ole tired inimitading >act. The audience at 20 bucks per pop was 95 per cent white and the stray >African American must have made a wrong left turn somewhere. > > Ms Cortez was loud and energetic...the 4 piece band including her son >played back ground...'cause as is known...the message is... which the white >audience ate it up...esp. poems they could understand...women is etc adj >verb etc ad infinitum...man is adj verb etc ad infinitum...the audience >which could actually get 'this stuff"... 41 bullets 41 bullets >onebyone...bang bang...bang BANG... > > Mr. Baraka let the band actually play...he left the 'jew landlord stuff >back in Newark..& with the petculiar hatred of the career civil >servant...whose money in fully invested in the Stock market by NY State..let >loose the East German rants of his youth... > > This is not the poetry of Kobe Bryant, Jerry Rice, the sec. of state, >the national sec. advisor, the African-American woman just engineering grad >of Cornell, the genuis Afro-A internet hacker, the hordes of A-A hampshire >oberlin reed usc ucla strivers..this is minstrely for white folk..doo wop >done again and again...it's time to retire these acts..& let 'em play the >Euro festival trash circuit where Anti-Americanism still has its gone good >name...and real bucks can be made off it.....Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:49:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: m&r...everybody's protest poetry... In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010607111808.00a1cdb0@lmumail.lmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" nudel, i think it's time for you to change your meds. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 17:23:25 -0400 Reply-To: perelman@english.upenn.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Perelman Organization: University of Pennsylvania Subject: quotation? Comments: To: dkane@PANIX.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "This writing does not concern itself with narrative in the conventional sense. Story, plot, any action outside the syntactic and tonal actions of the words is seen as secondary...Persona, Personism, the poet as trace of the poet-demiurge-these, too, are now extraneous." Dear Daniel Kane, I know I'm supposed to be the horse's mouth in this particular case, but I don't know where this is from. I looked through my computer files, but couldn't find it. It's probably from the mid-70s, one of my stiff baby-steps toward criticism. Best-case scenario, "This writing" refers to some particular anti-narrativist gesture. But if it's read as a characterization of Language Writing, it's reductive, useless. Nothing is "now" "extraneous" in writing. Unilinear avant-garde time, where the activity of every reader and writer is inexorably cicumscribed by some Absolute Poetic Zeitgest--I've been against such a notion for quite awhile. --Bob Perelman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:52:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: LANGUAGE PROSODY (ex. 4: adonics in Howe's "Pierce...") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IS THERE A CLASSICIST IN THE HOUSE? IS THERE A CLASSICIST IN THE HOUSE? ". . . It would have been a mistake however to cast the sonnets in the same metrical mode as Shakespeare's Christmas 1898 -- T.W.-D." -- Susan Howe, "Pierce Arrow" ----------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry for the earlier interruption. To continue this start along the same lines,--- I'll carry on with this initial presentation of the raw empirical observations first, and only then move back in on them to critique-theorize afterwards and incidentally. After these readily audible "hypodochmiacs" (previous posting), another recurring classical meter line throughout the book (Susan Howe's "Pierce Arrow"): the adonic ( / _ _ / / ). The adonic may currently be the most popularly familiar classical meter, as it is the concluding, short verse of Sapphic stanzas (and Sapphics have been greatly popularized and appear among widespread schools of poetry, owing perhaps to their easy recognizability). Howe: Buckling his seat belt (p.49)** Where are my damn boots (54)* consciousness grows dim (57)* Often as black ice (78)* world in its first three (87) air but she did not (103)~ gathered no blind threat (134)~ ( * ends stanza; ** begins stanza: Verses beginning or ending stanzas are given greater emphasis and, in the case of the adonic, end of stanza is its appropriate location viz.-a-viz. Sapphics.) On p. 86, adonic and hypodochmiac appear back to back: world in its first three paragraphs the Sixth [NOTE: (1) I generally leave out of these analyses all the books' pages of prose, pp. 5 - 24 and 116f, and the stanzas on pp. 33f, 36, 38, 40-4, 48, 50f, 53f, 56, 60f, 66f, 71, 73, 75-8, 80f, 83f, 86, 84, 96-100,105-9, 111f, 120-6, which I find to be closer to the prose pages in their style, discursivity, grammar/syntax, and diction. They do not sound characteristically "Howe," at least by the model of her earlier books. (AND I left out the seven-verse dedication that appears unpaginated prior to the table of contents--- ~because I neglected to notice it until now!~) (2) The weight of certain syllables of course becomes ambiguous depending on the cadence of the surrounding absolute-value accents,--- principally some connective one-syllable words, pronouns, prepositions, such as "your," "who," "is," "of," etc. I tend to read secondary stresses as full stresses/long syllables.] Aside from these two rhythms (the hypodochmiac and adonic), all the pentasyllables (five-syl. lines) in "Pierce Arrow" conform to similar regularity by proving classifiable into a small number of meters, for the time being left unnamed (catalog proceeds from stessed to unstressed, as a rule). [IMPORTANT NEW CONCEPT: THE SYLLABA ANCEPS. Omitted or lost from "New Formalist"-style metrics is a pivotal feature of classical meter, the "syllaba anceps." Syllaba anceps was where designated syllables in certain fixed line-meters could legitimately be ~written~ as either long or short (examples to follow in future summer "lessons"). --- Applying that concept to this reading of post-modern/Modernist metrics, it allows near-identical rhythms to be read as alternative versions of the same meter, and greatly streamlines the scope of the taxonomic results. Syllaba anceps are marked "X," rather than "_" or "/". --- Also, by applying the prerogative of syllaba anceps, it allows certain lines that are similar to hypodochmiacs/adonics to be read as such, and it expands the evidence of their presence and use, from the list of seven (above) to seventeen: (below) the three lines under / _ / / / and four lines under / _ / _ _ as hypodochmiacs, and the three lines under / _ _ / _ as adonics, where hypodochmiacs/adonics would be understood as / _ / X X and / _ _ / X, respectively. (Such analytical practices are also a part of traditional, "New Formalist" readings: a spondee can substitute for an iamb, etc.)] { ~ = contains one or two ambiguous accents } Voila: / / / / / Slain life treads down tell (102) Grove bough dark wind cove (131) / / / / _ psalms look out David (89) Gottfried shows Tristan (138) _ / / / / a time Swinburne comes (49) is come crude change wave (129) / / / _ / P.S. Afterthought (59) how not-now perceived (85) Blind flight do we win (104)~ / / _ / / Geist ("spirit") goes out (88) pierce dust and surf who (104)~ pale anguish breathes free (134) red sound to sense sense (135) I use a white thread (136)~ Day binds the wide Sound (144) / / _ / _ calls Tristan David's (89) Rest fathom over (92) / / _ _ / Mark's speeches are sham (138) / _ / / / [quasi-hypodochmiac B] Ramping brute force know (29) blown to bits one hand (30)~ [possible hypodochmiac] here is known change here (129) / _ / / _ sign for some one you (44) meter somehow but (82) Softly two kingdoms (93) / _ / _ _ [quasi-hypodochmiac A] violent rupture of (79) [hexasyllable, if pronounced "vi-o-lent"] out of touch with our ( " ) fable now you are (93)~ strife in blindness not (104)~ [possible hypodochmiac] / _ _ / _ [quasi-adonics] something believed in (87) "Shelley the second" (91) turned to the light her (137) _ / / _ / Through mined copyhold (30) _ _ / / _ in reverse order" (55) as in dumb crambo (72) _ _ / _ / are in thought extreme (49) to have written this (55) _ / _ _ / would try to portray (72) the past is perceived (85) descendants his first (89) Who was and was not (101)~ she wrapped up the bird (102) the matter to heart (103) their persons that they (138)~ _ / _ / / We took a thin thread (52) and by the sun's light ( " ) the hand and hand's field (88) and in the sun's light (136)~ the sea reflects back (136) _ / _ / _ among these theses (82) Your "type" is better (82)~ remembers always---" (100) * and dies of it of (103){~} of light from that of (136) _ / / _ / We sing side by side (101)~ X X / / _ does not want Heaven (p.?)(too ambiguous to analyze first two syllables) X X / _ / What we come to know (p.?) HYPODOCHMIAC (left out of previous posting's list) young he would have watched (140) * an important line, as it the full passage is: "he had written Mary Ellen's / name and an inscription / in Greek "Earthly love is / soon forgetful/the heavenly / remembers always---". The English (and Howe's poetry), then, is a second- or third-level translation-transparency over some originally Greek meter. Similarly, "ruin, lust, lechery ~humanum est / errare~ Patroclus' armor three times" (p. 28): as in Pound's verse or any such English poetry incorporating foreign languages, those insets confound any metrical scheme,--- here by mixing a language of quantitative meter (Latin) into qualitative English. The tendency is to read "humanum est / errare" as "hu-MA-num EST / er-RA-re", but "er-" is a long syllable in Latin by virtue of preceding double consonants, etc. ---------------------------------------------- MORE ON HYPODOCHMIACS: One of the elements in "Pierce Arrow" confirming the presence of hypodochmiacs, I found, was a single word in the line "Bottom's other monopolylogue" (p. 62). "(M)onopolylogue" is accented as a hypodochmiac. --- Elsewhere, the verse "Mirror-impulse ask Fortinbras" (p. 95), / _ / _ / / _ / , would be unanalyzable without the hypodochmiac as a "foot" (T2.S.I: trochaic dimeter, spondee, iamb? T2._.cret: trochaic dim., _ , cretic (/ _ /)?? even assuming a "swallowed," sprung-rhythm beat after "ask" still leaves the verse as acatalectic or acephalous, neither clearly iambic or trochaic; etc.). It is analyzable as hypodochmiac-cretic. --- (Likewise {upcoming summer "lesson"}, that the book-length poem establishes its preliminary rhythms with the prominence and prevalence of four-syllable _ / _ _ English words such as such "Mortality," "humanity," "interpretant," etc., and four-syl. _ _ / _ words and names such as "Iliadic," "Polydorus," and so on, also promotes a 2nd/3rd epitrite analysis of the meter in a way that solves unanalyzables.) ---------------------------------------------- HYPOTHESIS: Metrical analyses of XXth cent. poetry failed to explain or systematize so-called "free verse" because it relied upon a deceptive convention (the "New Formalist" tradition) of metrical analysis based on disyllable and trisyllables: iambs-trochees ( _ / and / _ ) and anapest-dactyl ( _ _ / and / _ _ ). "Free verse" yields to discernible patternings when the standard of measure is expanded from di-/trisyllable to tetrasyllable. (As was the case in classical meter: there never did exist and ~could~ not exist any such thing as "iambic pentameter" in classical poetry, as its uneven count was unallowable.) A yardstick measuring by groupings that are a minimum of ~four~ syllables can explain the meter of free verse. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:36:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik From: SharmagneS@aol.com Sharmagne Leland-St.John Sharmagne publishes poetry, song lyrics and short stories on line at: http://www.themestream.com/articles/326130.html I Said Coffee I said coffee I didn't say, "would you like to cup my warm soft breasts in your un-calloused, long, tapered, ring less fingered hands?" I said coffee I didn't say, "would you like to run your tongue along my neck just below my left ear-lobe?" I said coffee I didn't say, "would you like to hold me in your arms and feel my heart skip beats as you press your hard body up against mine until I melt into you with desire?" I said coffee as we stood there in the jasmine scented night my car door like some modern day bundling board separating us, protecting us from ourselves and lust I said, "would you like to go for a cup of coffee?" I didn't say, "would you like to brush your lips across mine as you move silently to bury your face in my long, silky, raven black hair?" But you said, "I can't I'm married I can't trust myself to be alone with you." So I looked you dead in the eye and repeated "I said coffee" Sharmagne Leland-St.John ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:08:34 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Blaze VOX2k1 Subject: Just the Cheese Crunchy Baked Cheese -- update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A new natural poetry magazine made by baking natural language until its crunchy. The only ingredients are cheese and spices. You've got to try this! An ideal poetics magazine for the LOW CARBOHYDRATE LIFESTYLE! BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com Just the Cheese Crunchy Baked Cheese NO CARBOHYDRATES!! 100% Natural Cheese for 100% Cheese taste BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com The Specialty Cheese Company found a 17-step baking process that makes natural cheese into a crunchy snack! Since cheese is naturally low in carbohydrates, their new baked cheeses are an ideal addition to a LOW CARBOHYDRATE DIET! BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com To make them they simply take slices of their natural cheeses, season and gently bake them to crisp, delicious perfection. Nothing else added. And, since their patent-pending baking process preserves cheese's natural nutrients, their Just the Cheese Crunchy Baked Cheese are PROTEIN AND CALCIUM RICH but LOW IN CARBOHYDRATES (since cheese is naturally low in carbohydrates). BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com Each piece of Just the Cheese Crunchy Baked Cheese is a golden gem of natural cheese that first crunches, then melts in your mouth. Just the Cheese Crunchy Baked Cheese pieces make sensational snacks, creative crumbles for soups and salads, and are delicious with your favorite dips. NO REFRIGERATION REQUIRED. INGREDIENTS: Natural Cheese (Milk, salt, enzymes), spices. This issue includes Mark Wallace Amy King Geoffrey Gatza Review - Lisa Jarnot Ring of Fire Irving Feldman Still Sucks Komninos Zervos MP3 -- Sparkle*Jets UK Painting - Dick Detzner Shane Jones Edward Abbott BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com BlazeVOX2k1 www.vorplesword.com Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:41:07 -0600 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Organization: housepress Subject: new from housepress - Shane Rhodes' CLUTCH (a book of saints) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit housepress is pleased to announce the release of: CLUTCH (a book of saints) by Shane Rhodes Shane Rhodes is the author of _The Wireless Room_ (NeWest Press, 2000) which Robert Kroetsch called "a royal flush in hearts. What you might call a perfect hand." _The Wireless Room_ won the 2000 Alberta Book Awards' Stephan G. Stephansson Award for poetry. He has been an editor with filling Station, Fiddlehead and Qwerty magazines, and holds an MA from the University of New Brunswick. CLUTCH (a book of saints) is published in an edition of 50 hand-bound and numbered copies. copies are now available for $9.00 to order copies or for more information, contact: derek beaulieu housepress housepress@home.com http://www.telusplanet.net/public/housepre ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:19:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: Fwd: Western Annex: Factory School Audio Library Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed sometimes the server is down. click at your own risk >From: "retrofitter" >To: kuszai@hotmail.com >Subject: Western Annex: Factory School Audio Library >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:17:18 -0700 > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: > >Announcing WESTERN ANNEX >Factory School Audio Library > >Formerly part of the Sunbrella Network and now housed as part of the >Factory School learning and production collective in San Diego, California, >WESTERN ANNEX is now presenting more than 500 digital poetry audio files in >approximately 100 hours of listening time. > >Factory School is actively seeking help developing Western Annex, >especially the Poetry and Literature Archive. If you have tapes you would >like to have digitized, or if you are interested in donating, loaning, or >trading poetry audio tapes, please contact: retrofitter@yahoo.com. > >For more information, go to: http://www.factoryschool.org > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:47:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: list stats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List subscribership by country as of this afternoon. Caveat Lector: The accuracy of these statistics, with regard to the number of countries represented, is suspect, given that the Listserv program assumes all addresses that lack a country code (e.g., "nz" for New Zealand) are resident U.S. addresses - a fact particularly relevant given the current prominence of web-based email. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- Country Subscribers ------- ----------- Australia 16 Austria 1 Belgium 2 Canada 40 Finland 1 France 1 Germany 4 Great Britain 19 India 1 Ireland 5 Israel 1 Italy 1 Japan 5 Latvia 1 New Zealand 13 Niue 1 Romania 1 Singapore 1 Spain 3 Sweden 3 Switzerland 2 Taiwan 1 Thailand 1 USA 781 Yugoslavia 1 Total number of users subscribed to the list: 906 Total number of countries represented: 25 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:55:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: list stats In-Reply-To: <611728.3201338861@ny-chicagost2a-240.buf.adelphia.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Great Britain 19 This surprises me. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:57:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Coletti Subject: Re: Funkhousers WRONG m&r...everybody's protest poetry... In-Reply-To: <001901c0f088$46ef99e0$6d183318@buf.adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmmmmmmmmmm. How is being critical of posts one finds offensive hampering? These (Nudel's) have never struck me as creative posts. And since no one ever responds to them either in support or in dissent, they just seem to dangle out there. I think Chris' response was intelligent and detailed. If these posts of DrN's are creative ones, I think we all would enjoy some details respecting their foundation. And the tsk tsk comment regarding the misquote below just appears silly and ineffective in its dismissal of Mr. Funkhouser's letter. What does that have to do with either objection? Perhaps you could provide us with details concerning the creative content of these posts. Maybe they are the work of sheer persona. Unfortunately, up to this point these emails have seemed nothing more than bellicose and aggressive. And in fact, I think most people simply ignore them because they feel as if they are just pokes at poets in hopes of getting attention. But maybe I've missed the point entirely. I certainly would like to be enlightened. John Coletti -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Geoffrey Gatza Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 10:03 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Funkhousers WRONG m&r...everybody's protest poetry... Funkhouser I enjoy this drivel as you call it. If I were you I would stop hampering someone's creativity and work on your own! Or at least re-read your WCW to properly quote him Geoffrey Gatza ----- Original Message ----- From: Funkhouser, Chris To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:27 AM Subject: m&r...everybody's protest poetry... > Nudel, > > I can't believe you are doing this again! > > Why are you wasting your, my, & everyone else's time > sending such drivel?? I'd like to see instead your > _real_ anti-anti-imperialist (or anti-racist, anti-liberal, or anti-whatever > agenda), rather than taking swipes at people who are actively doing > something to provoke a changes in thinking & perhaps even promoting a > cultural renaissance. > > After last year's despicable account on the > Baraka / Cecil Taylor reading, you have the nerve > to report on a reading you didn't even go to again?? > > I'm sorry to say that the reports that reached > you were WAY off the mark. The readings by Cortez > and Baraka on Saturday night were incredible, really potent, > as I'm sure any a/v documentation would demonstrate. > Both poets performed with excellent bands, completely tight, > and at the top of their game. The poetry all the way around was > extraordinary. And the audience was hardly 95% white. The SRO crowd > included great scholars (Fred Moten, Brent Edwards, Alan Gilbert), > artists, (including dj Spooky & many other musicians, Eliot Katz) ETC ETC. > Your accounters could not have presented you with more misinformation. > > I don't have time to do a full analysis of the gig, which > also included Daniel Berrigan, Other Dimensions in Music, > Raphe Malik, and others. Jayne Cortez was absolutely radiant, her band > sharp, & message righteous. But since you again diss on Baraka > so badly, I'd like to write a few sentences because I had a > totally different perspective on it than you (esp. cause I was there), > & think he's still an important voice. > > The band (Blue Ark): Amina Baraka (voc.), D.D. Jackson (piano), Wilber > Morris (bass), Pheeroan Ak-Laff (drums), Herbie Morgan (sax), Dwight > West (voc.). They played an hour set that never dragged, an arc of word and > music that effectively and overtly set up a thoughtful dialect between MLK & > X, with the history of the "railroad at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean > made of human bones" as the overall backdrop. Not some kind of retro thing, > either. What you also get is Baraka as preacher/anti-preacher railing > against "A Fake President for a Counterfeit Democracy," & persecutions faced > by all. Mid-set he offered a number of his "lo-ku" poems, including a bunch > of new ones ("for bush II": "the only problem with you is that you're not > in jail"). the group's stage presence is mature, professional, & baraka > himself himself, hunched over, dropping his > pages all over the stage, shuffling them just right, hitting the > mic right at the right moment. His brother in law Dwight with a > deep deep voice next to him at least 2 feet taller thrusting > fist upward. Amina, soulful in voice & > presence to his other side. & all of this is poetry of and for his people, > nudel, & for all of us. you're dead wrong in your last > paragraph; your scouts must have gone to a spike lee movie, or much > worse. What authority do you have on the subject anyway, & what > are you doing about the problems besides sending us this crap? > > & when Baraka says "evil was an experiment," that's poignant & hopeful. If > it's a vision > on the world, & we can get beyond the experiment, great for us. i think it > can also be heard apologetically, and one thing Baraka has done steadily in > the > past 20 years is acknowledge earlier misdirections. > > anyway, clearly you're down on Baraka, & that's fine but wish > you'd actually engage w/what he's got going on, or with what's > going on it the world rather than ignorantly gripe. > > what is your real beef, bro? > > > > >> > > I missed the double-header of Amiri Baraka and Jane Cortez doing the > Vision Festival at the Knitting Factory becaue I was home watching the Met > game. But reports have reached me that it was the same ole tired inimitading > act. The audience at 20 bucks per pop was 95 per cent white and the stray > African American must have made a wrong left turn somewhere. > > Ms Cortez was loud and energetic...the 4 piece band including her son > played back ground...'cause as is known...the message is... which the white > audience ate it up...esp. poems they could understand...women is etc adj > verb etc ad infinitum...man is adj verb etc ad infinitum...the audience > which could actually get 'this stuff"... 41 bullets 41 bullets > onebyone...bang bang...bang BANG... > > Mr. Baraka let the band actually play...he left the 'jew landlord stuff > back in Newark..& with the petculiar hatred of the career civil > servant...whose money in fully invested in the Stock market by NY State..let > loose the East German rants of his youth... > > This is not the poetry of Kobe Bryant, Jerry Rice, the sec. of state, > the national sec. advisor, the African-American woman just engineering grad > of Cornell, the genuis Afro-A internet hacker, the hordes of A-A hampshire > oberlin reed usc ucla strivers..this is minstrely for white folk..doo wop > done again and again...it's time to retire these acts..& let 'em play the > Euro festival trash circuit where Anti-Americanism still has its gone good > name...and real bucks can be made off it.....Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:13:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: death row roll call? In-Reply-To: <611728.3201338861@ny-chicagost2a-240.buf.adelphia.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Check out the browser title of the Nation's submission guidelines page: http://www.thenation.com/about/guidelines.mhtml Makes me a little leery of submitting!! By the way, what is the status of the Nation as a poetry venue? Still taken seriously? I'm obviously a bit out of the picture, being in St. Louis and all. Best, Aaron Belz http://meaningless.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:27:16 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Re: Boring Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From your draft you misread the drift or not read more then 2 sentences. Reuven BenYuhmin >>Yes, why would anyone read poetry but for pleasure. Especially the kind >>of >>poetry congenial with the agenda of the Poetics Digest > > > I suppose this means that the only poetry Mr. Reuven finds pleasurable is the > poetry congenial with the Poetics Digest agenda. Otherwise, I don't know > where he got the idea from my words. > > Murat >> It is not an idea that I don't understand (the idea is not the same as >> different people finding different writers boring); I just utterly disagree >> with it. To me, pleasure it is at the heart of reading or writing, a true >> test. > >> Murat > > Yes, why would anyone read poetry but for pleasure. Especially the kind of > poetry congenial with the agenda of the Poetics Digest . Yes, academics > --one of my colleagues says, he finds most contemporary poets exceedingly > boring but feels he has to read some Ezines just to "keep up on things." > The question is simply the old question of what's "pleasure." > > Actually, how many people in the world are audience for this poetry/poetics, > just a small handful. Most of the writing /writers are compulsive--yes > there's excitement & spurts & perhaps even waves of it, but in some cases, > no names mentioned, we witness the runs. One must have compassion for the > dissatisfaction, the dis-ease, the writhing that fills writing. One MUST > surmise from the words. Much /most writing serves as reciprocal > masturbation, please, polish my ego, give it some luster, some shine. For > friends to read & critique, read mine, now read mine, read mine. People > writing for money--eventually know there's none-- then writing for face, > writing for voice, writing to blame, writing for reasons questionable. Who's > saying what's exemplary, fine, the essence of our time ( that was the > orthodox line), can move us beyond conventional, intellectual horizon of > mind, higher, a bit beyond, ah ha. Not just more stimulation, getting off > on agitation, itching a wound. > > Me thinks the matter a matter of aesthetics, actual experience(not just in > the head) of higher, subtler, more refined pleasure. Pleasure too is > hierarchical. Always ready & easy & able to let go the coarser for the > finer. The generation (the language folk, born too late for acid, never > knew DMT, to early and too late to meditate), frogs in a well view of > mind, still projecting shadows onto THE world & seeing the A & B & C > without sensuality. Engrossed (to the point of obsession) & engorged with > ideas and views, never quiet, never at rest. Again, a question of what's > best. What's the goal & is there one or, is it just fresh drivel, just a > queer way to say or to see. > > Better me thinks get back in the body, calm and clear and expand the mind > & watch, observe quietly what's going on , moment by moment & not more & > more & more proliferation, fabrication, excitation keeping us spinning & > whirling about, about & about & about & more just about. > > Has someone some thing enlightening to say, mind expanding, moving-- at > least the romantics were romantic, not just running sores of the tongue & > mouth. The fetid breath as poetic presence becomes increasingly > unappealing, students yawn at the thought of poetry, the beats become a bit > boring, the language folk& they're snoring. Although not repetitive in the > usual sense, you finish reading & you're always asking: yes, but so what? > So what? Perhaps we can't, shouldn't, needn't ask more from poetry/poetics, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:18:43 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Re: Boring Comments: cc: patrick herron Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Patrick, When one says that they do anything for a*n*y single reason there's always an exception, sure, nothing's that simple and someone with a quick wit can point to that exception & you have. However, I hope there's tongue in check in the twelve reasons you note for reading poetry other then pleasure ( you say you're "reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of hedonistic enterprise" & why the reluctance?) Out of habit. Out of an unconscious need for suffering(perhaps). Because I feel I must force myself to see other ways of writing. Because my eyes are bored and they need something to do. To annoy other people. Because *flash* there it is, I've read it without thinking about it, without reason (seems du*b, might as well watch the gluetube). To annoy other people (perhaps your worst reason/motive; no reason to hurt or harm others, surely there's tongue in check here, an attempt at humor). Because language is a virus and I've been infected ( surely affectation, not you being true, just cute, no? you really mean it, fine then there's not much I can say except be happy. & this comment holds true for most of your remaining 12 reasons. To stroke another person's ego. To get pissed off or disappointed. Maybe I'm out of it, and maybe people nowadays read for such reasons , but are they REALLY good reasons & if not I'd say give them up, change your habit, get better habits. At least a tad of higher pleasures:-) Still, everyone has their own shtick, so be bored if you must, be unhappy if you please, .....no, that won't work either, please too close to pleasure:-) I find much that gets written to the digest is just overflow, a chance for display, a chance to preen one's literary feathers. I read this digest to see what new presses are around, what new Ezines are on line, & what new books are in print. My preference in poetry & poetics seems best to mesh with the folks who subscribe to this digest & so I really enjoy browsing here. Reuven BenYuhmin You try to get what you want & what you want you desire & what you desire you find somehow pleasurable, isn't that the way it works? The rest comes via blindness, ignorance. > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:26:24 -0400 > From: patrick herron > Subject: Re: Boring > > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry Other than Pleasure > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need for suffering. > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force myself to see other ways of > writing, of saying. > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored and they need something to do. > > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, I've read it without > thinking about it, without reason. > > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus and I've been infected. > > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's ego. > > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or disappointed. > > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which is not the same thing as > pleasure). > > > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a person would read poetry for > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many editors suffer through much of > their submissions. > > My point here is that there is so much of what we do has "no reason" or no > conscious propagation; some of us just end up reading it. I'm obviously > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of hedonistic enterprise. > > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a thing for me to find one > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams unowned. > > Thanks, > Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:01:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Buenos Aires Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you plan to spend next year in Buenos Aires, or know other English-language poet(s) living in Buenos Aires, would you back-channel me, please? Many thanks. Susan Wheeler susanwheeler@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:33:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Funkhouser, Chris" Subject: WRONG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Geoffrey et al It has been a long time since I made headlines on POETICS, at least 5 or 6 years since the days of the anti-hegemony project and alt.fan.silliman. & now for being wrong! Superb! I won't bask in it (& do need to change my meds). I'd agree with you that it is largely unproductive to respond to nudel by being partially indignant (mainly informative hopefully) but couldn't help it at the moment-was so incredulous that he could make such fiction out of what I knew of as the "real." Plus, there's a little history to this as I mentioned in my post. I vow to be more creative in responding to such posts al futuro. I appreciate yr complaint, to tell the truth, as part of my life is as critic & often need to be told how to be better at it...what works and what doesn't. & since we're not having an argument at a bar here, spontaneously ripping into someone else's post could very well be a faulty approach. As far as my own creativity goes, there's plenty happening. Just launched, in collaboration with Baraka, amiribaraka.com in its preliminary format. Though it has not been much publicized yet, invite everyone here to check it out (& offer suggestions if inclined). We'll see how that goes. We Press has just published the text of the piece I performed with Amy at e-poetry 2001, "The Idea of Switzerland," made out of MOO transcripts, & I'll be interested to hear peoples' responses to it (a few *review* copies are available, backchannel wepress@con2.com). Don Byrd & I did a reading on Sunday at zinc bar that went very well. But mostly spending the summer writing about pre-WWW computerized poetry & spending time w/the family. Anyway, can you tell me (backchannel if you please) what you mean w/yr reference to WCW. Do I misquote him somewhere? That would be entirely possible, & I'd be grateful for the correction. paz, Chris F. >> Funkhouser I enjoy this drivel as you call it. If I were you I would stop hampering someone's creativity and work on your own! Or at least re-read your WCW to properly quote him Geoffrey Gatza ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:32:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Boring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii is there any reason other than pleasure to engage in something as useless as reading poetry? i suspect there isn't... > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry > Other than Pleasure > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. Presumably a pleasurable habit. > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need > for suffering. Take pleasure from suffering do we? > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force > myself to see other ways of > writing, of saying. Again, sounds close to pleasure to me. The pleasure of new ways of seeing. The same reason one might travel or read National Geographic > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored > and they need something to do. And relieving boredom is not simply another way of saying seeking pleasure? > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. You must enjoy annoying other people. > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, > I've read it without > thinking about it, without reason. Pleasure can be prerational can it not? > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. And take pleasure in their company... > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus > and I've been infected. Perhaps - there are other metaphors of contagion one might use as well, such as laughter... > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's > ego. Well you can read poems like that to me anytime! > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. I'd have a hard time seeing the reading of a poem as a favour in the same way picking up milk at the store is a favour. > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or > disappointed. Bad poetry does that to me - but I hardly seek it out > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which > is not the same thing as > pleasure). Close enough in my books... > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a > person would read poetry for > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many > editors suffer through much of > their submissions. I suspect most editors take a "neutral" stance towards unsuitable submissions. Clearly the "pleasure" of finding publishable work overcomes the "pain" of reading mediocre or unsuitable work. > My point here is that there is so much of what > we do has "no reason" or no > conscious propagation; some of us just end up > reading it. I'm obviously > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > hedonistic enterprise. I disagree - everything we do is based on some prior condition or concept of self. I don't think we need to posit an "unconscious" mind to see that people move towards pleasure, and avoid pain. Yes, even masochists. > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a > thing for me to find one > central root, one core reason, for reading it. Perhaps - but a multiplicity of situations can be seen as a single gestalt. A rainstorm is a confluence of circumstances resulting in a single thing - namely, the rainstorm itself. Poetry is a confluence of words creating a single object capable - if it is a "good" piece of work - of bearing many interpretations. Likewise the "reasons" for reading poetry can come from multiple sources, but ultimately is fulfilled completely in its own design. > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > unowned. > > Thanks, > Patrick ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:32:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Eileen In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" one thing everyone seems to forget about the so-called assimilation of the language poets is that they held out about as long as they could, and some (esp the women) do not have academic posts or doctorates. reaganomics made it impossible to do the kinds of community service jobs and/or survive doing art. several of the langpos who went for doctorates did so at considerably older ages than is considered normative precisely because they were not career academics but poets when others in their age group were in doctoral programs. so they got a late start, which puts them not in the most cushy position --assistant prof in your late forties??? you can say, yeah, but anyone who gets tenure is eventually defanged as a potential revolutionary and in a certain context that argument has some merit. as far as i'm concerned anyone with a retirement account, myself included, is living off other people's labor. but so is anyone who buys clothing not tailormade or not from secondhand stores or yard sales, etc. these things have to be seen in context, and sometimes it's hard to sort out the merits of the anti-academic argument from the ressentiment that can get interlaced with it. At 1:36 PM +1200 6/12/01, Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG) wrote: > hi kominos > hi all > I can understand you have problems. you need more history, or memory. >For instance,the avant-garde wasn't against an establishment. >i can remember when establishments began--it was sometime in the 1960s. >about the same time as modernism came along. and if there had been an >establishment in the 1900s it wasn't the one you describe, but one which the >church, the class system,had a part to play. L= poets in the 70s were >getting a formal education and getting a job like everyone else in their >generation, i don't call that 'working within the establishment as >students'. i'm comfortable about their being an avant-garde circa 1900-1910, >but not with there being one circa 2000-2010. change happens. Though >arseholes are forever. > wystan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: komninos zervos [mailto:k.zervos@MAILBOX.GU.EDU.AU] >Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2001 3:10 p.m. >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Eileen > > >hi maria. >hi all > >i have a few problems. > >the avant-gardes of the early 1900s were against an establishment. >the establishment was government, the academy and professors. >the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets were an avant-garde of the seventies, also >often contrary to the government, professors and academy, but working >within that establishment as students. >many of the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets of the seventies are now professors. >at e-poetry and dac 2001 it seemed that an e-poetry avant-garde is >being led by professors. does this make the student body the >establishment? >does this mean that the avant-garde of the early 2000s has become the >establishment? >or is the academy split into establishment and avant-garde? > >if so, has literature become a wholly academic issue totally internal >to the academy? > >and does it mean it will disappear up its own arsehole? > > > > > >is the article on eileen just the awakening of some young journalist, >unaware of the history and existence of a 'performance >poetry/non-mainstream scene'? > > >komninos ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:06:33 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: Eileen In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:36 PM 6/12/01 +1200, you wrote: > hi kominos that's komninos for anyone who cares to not offend. > hi all > I can understand you have problems. you need more history, or memory. >For instance,the avant-garde wasn't against an establishment. well i'm prepared to be educated. >i can remember when establishments began--it was sometime in the 1960s. i didn't know establishment was a brand name, i thought i was refering to the dominant paradigm. >about the same time as modernism came along. hmmm. i would have thought eliot and pound were being modernist long before 1960. >and if there had been an >establishment in the 1900s it wasn't the one you describe, but one which the >church, the class system,had a part to play. that's not an establishment? and weren't church and class prescribing standards in literature, and art in general, weren't they the political and literary establishment? >L= poets in the 70s were >getting a formal education and getting a job like everyone else in their >generation, i don't call that 'working within the establishment as >students'. i'm not being critical of the L= poets just descriptive, if my description is wrong please illuminate me as to the 'real' situation. >i'm comfortable about their being an avant-garde circa 1900-1910, >but not with there being one circa 2000-2010. change happens. you weren't at e-Poetry or DAC 2001 or at the elo literature awards. you would have witnessed some revolutionary poetry. revolutionary in the sense that is challenging the creative process of poetry, the way poetry is read, the publishing and distribution of poetry, and the selection and elevation of poetic works. challenging the literary establishment, if not the political. >Though >arseholes are forever. > wystan you shouldn't put yourself down like that. komninos > > >-----Original Message----- >From: komninos zervos [mailto:k.zervos@MAILBOX.GU.EDU.AU] >Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2001 3:10 p.m. >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Eileen > > >hi maria. >hi all > >i have a few problems. > >the avant-gardes of the early 1900s were against an establishment. >the establishment was government, the academy and professors. >the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets were an avant-garde of the seventies, also >often contrary to the government, professors and academy, but working >within that establishment as students. >many of the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets of the seventies are now professors. >at e-poetry and dac 2001 it seemed that an e-poetry avant-garde is >being led by professors. does this make the student body the >establishment? >does this mean that the avant-garde of the early 2000s has become the >establishment? >or is the academy split into establishment and avant-garde? > >if so, has literature become a wholly academic issue totally internal >to the academy? > >and does it mean it will disappear up its own arsehole? > > > > > >is the article on eileen just the awakening of some young journalist, >unaware of the history and existence of a 'performance >poetry/non-mainstream scene'? > > >komninos > komninos's cyberpoetry site http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502 cyberpoet@slv site http://www.experimedia.vic.gov.au/cyberpoet/ komninos zervos, tel. +61 7 5552 8872 lecturer in cyberStudies, school of arts, gold coast campus, griffith university, pmb 50, gold coast mail centre queensland, 9726 australia. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:14:51 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: Eileen In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:33 PM 6/12/01 -0400, you wrote: >GEE Kominos,, that's komninos for anyone who cares not to offend or claims to know me well. i've just read the below stuff,, from my view here in >Australia you seem to be continually cushy with the establishment//pete >spence > yes, i would say as a performance poet for 15 years, my sole source of income from being a performance poet, i was adopted by the literary and political establishment in the pluralist days of the mid-eighties, i began working to their agenda. i do so now too as a university full-time tenure track lecturer. if you know how to live in australia without being cushy with the establishment please let me know, unless you are advocating the relationship you maintain with humanity. komninos >> >>hi maria. >>hi all >> >>i have a few problems. >> >>the avant-gardes of the early 1900s were against an establishment. >>the establishment was government, the academy and professors. >>the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets were an avant-garde of the seventies, also >>often contrary to the government, professors and academy, but working >>within that establishment as students. >>many of the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets of the seventies are now professors. >>at e-poetry and dac 2001 it seemed that an e-poetry avant-garde is >>being led by professors. does this make the student body the >>establishment? >>does this mean that the avant-garde of the early 2000s has become the >>establishment? >>or is the academy split into establishment and avant-garde? >> >>if so, has literature become a wholly academic issue totally internal >>to the academy? >> >>and does it mean it will disappear up its own arsehole? >> >> >> >> >> >>is the article on eileen just the awakening of some young journalist, >>unaware of the history and existence of a 'performance >>poetry/non-mainstream scene'? >> >> >>komninos > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > komninos's cyberpoetry site http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502 cyberpoet@slv site http://www.experimedia.vic.gov.au/cyberpoet/ komninos zervos, tel. +61 7 5552 8872 lecturer in cyberStudies, school of arts, gold coast campus, griffith university, pmb 50, gold coast mail centre queensland, 9726 australia. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:37:29 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "][mez][" Subject: _S][mall][ervo-Monito.Red ][heart][Beats_ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" _S][mall][ervo-Monito.Red ][heart][Beats_ - - --relat][ed][ional components birth-mixed --a silvered cord held snappish N slashed --removal.of.constr][ucts][aints --placental oohs N ahhs - --whip-like b][uttered][looms N leve][ls][rs --edging round warm echoed ][s.][paces --swarmed genderish reel][ities][ play thru N r][ustle][epeat - --subsetting in2 co][zy][red mantles --selling sleep-units N smoothed out f][ertile][ingertips --trip-toeish thicknesses N rubberband body contract][ual][ions - - - - --modem singing vs --phone g][igabyting][urgling - - --angst decay vs --fabriced pressure - - - --awkward sen][tence][ses vs --com][bustible][plete ][e][motion . . .... ..... net.wurker][mez][ n.sert x.coins.x .here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:02:44 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: { brad brace } Subject: continuous hypermodern imagery online since 1994 In-Reply-To: <1219666826-10046749@wiredmag.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" _______ _ __ ___ _ |__ __| | /_ |__ \| | | | | |__ ___ | | ) | |__ _ __ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | / /| '_ \| '__| | | | | | | __/ | |/ /_| | | | | |_| |_| |_|\___| |_|____|_| |_|_| _____ _____ ____ _ _ _ _____ ______ _____ |_ _|/ ____| _ \| \ | | | | __ \| ____/ ____| | | | (___ | |_) | \| |______ | | |__) | |__ | | __ | | \___ \| _ <| . ` |______| | | ___/| __|| | |_ | _| |_ ____) | |_) | |\ | | |__| | | | |___| |__| | |_____|_____/|____/|_| \_| \____/|_| |______\_____| | __ \ (_) | | | |__) | __ ___ _ ___ ___| |_ | ___/ '__/ _ \| |/ _ \/ __| __| | | | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_ |_| |_| \___/| |\___|\___|\__| _/ | |__/ > > > > Synopsis: The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project began December 30, 1994. A `round-the-clock posting of sequenced hypermodern imagery by Brad Brace. The hypermodern minimizes the familiar, the known, the recognizable; it suspends identity, relations and history. The 12-hour ISBN JPEG Project ----------------------------- began December 30, 1994 Pointless Hypermodern Imagery... posted/mailed every 12 hours... a stellar, trajective alignment past the 00`s! A continuum of minimalist masks in the face of catastrophe; conjuring up transformative metaphors for the everyday... A poetic reversibility of events... A post-rhetorical, continuous, apparently random sequence of imagery... genuine gritty, greyscale... corruptable, compact, collectable and compelling convergence. The voluptuousness of the grey imminence: the art of making the other disappear. Continual visual impact; an optical drumming, sculpted in duration, on the endless present of the Net. An extension of the printed ISBN-Book (0-9690745) series... critically unassimilable... imagery is gradually acquired, selected and re-sequenced over time... ineluctable, vertiginous connections. The 12hr dialtone... [ see ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace/netcom/books ] KEYWORDS: >> Disconnected, disjunctive, distended, de-centered, de-composed, ambiguous, augmented, ambilavent, homogeneous, reckless... >> Multi-faceted, oblique, obsessive, obscure, obdurate... >> Promulgated, personal, permeable, prolonged, polymorphous, provocative, poetic, plural, perverse, potent, prophetic, pathological... >> Evolving, eccentric, eclectic, egregious, exciting, entertaining, entropic, erotic, entrancing, enduring... Every 12 hours, another!... view them, re-post `em, save `em, trade `em, print `em, even publish them... Here`s how: ~ Set www-links to -> http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/12hr.html. Look for the 12-hr-icon. Heavy traffic may require you to specify files more than once! Anarchie, Fetch, CuteFTP, TurboGopher... ~ Download from -> ftp.pacifier.com /pub/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.rdrop.com /pub/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.eskimo.com /u/b/bbrace * Remember to set tenex or binary. Get 12hr.jpeg ~ E-mail -> If you only have access to email, then you can use FTPmail to do essentially the same thing. Send a message with a body of 'help' to the server address nearest you: ftpmail@ccc.uba.ar ftpmail@cs.uow.edu.au ftpmail@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de ftpmail@ftp.Dartmouth.edu ftpmail@ieunet.ie ftpmail@src.doc.ic.ac.uk ftpmail@archie.inesc.pt ftpmail@ftp.sun.ac.za ftpmail@ftp.sunet.se ftpmail@ftp.luth.se ftpmail@NCTUCCCA.edu.tw ftpmail@oak.oakland.edu ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com ftpmail@census.gov bitftp@plearn.bitnet bitftp@dearn.bitnet bitftp@vm.gmd.de bitftp@plearn.edu.pl bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu bitftp@pucc.bitnet ~ Mirror-sites requested! Archives too! The latest new jpeg will always be named, 12hr.jpeg Average size of images is only 45K. * Perl program to mirror ftp-sites/sub-directories: src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/packages/mirror * ~ Postings to usenet groups: alt.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc * * Ask your system's news-administrator to carry these groups! (There are also usenet image browsers: TIFNY, PluckIt, Picture Agent, PictureView, Extractor97, NewsRover, Binary News Assistant, Newsfeeds) ~ This interminable, relentless sequence of imagery began in earnest on December 30, 1994. The basic structure of the project has been over twenty-four years in the making. While the specific sequence of photographs has been presently orchestrated for more than 12 years` worth of 12-hour postings, I will undoubtedly be tempted to tweak the ongoing publication with additional new interjected imagery. Each 12-hour posting is like the turning of a page; providing ample time for reflection, interruption, and assimilation. ~ The sites listed above also contain information on other transcultural projects and sources. ~ A very low-volume, moderated mailing list for announcements and occasional commentary related to this project has been established at topica.com /subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg -- This project has not received government art-subsidies. Some opportunities still exist for financially assisting the publication of editions of large (36x48") prints; perhaps (Iris giclees) inkjet quadtones bound as an oversize book. Other supporters receive rare copies of the first three web-offset printed ISBN-Books. << http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html >> -- ISBN is International Standard Book Number. JPEG and GIF are types of image files. Get the text-file, 'pictures-faq' to learn how to view or translate these images. [ftp ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace/netcom/] -- (c) copyleft 1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,2001 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:38:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Fiona Maazel Subject: Reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TONIGHT: Please help The Paris Review celebrate its New Writers Issue with a big = old party.=20 Where: The Brooklyn Bridge Anchorage When: June 13th. Perks: Jim Carroll, Denis Johnson, Rick Moody, and Helen Schulman will = read from works originally published in the magazine. Music, dancing, drinks.=20 Readings start at 8. Party goes on and on. $10 at the door.=20 Directions: Take the 2 or 3 train to Clark Street or the A or C train to = High Street. Walk down=20 Cadman Plaza West towards the river, under the BQE = overpass, and enter to the right. www.creativetime.org 212-206-6674 x213 www.theparisreview.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:32:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laurie macrae Subject: Queen of Spleen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii All the life on this list seems to have gone on vacation. I miss the Queen of Spleen, David Benedetti. A few words about National Poetry Month. Now that we've heard from members of the Academy protesting that it's sponsored by the Academy, and an apocryphal tale of the poetry gulag in high school,(wasn't high school ever thus?) I'd like to describe what actually happens in public libraries - the other sponsors of National Poetry Month (through the American Library Association)- during April. We have poetry readings, usually by local poets, usually NOT academics, frquently young people, frequently representative of the diverse communities that public libraries serve. We create displays of books, frequently the rare books in our collections that are the work of local poets, NOT usually academics, more like small press books, more like real people. We host things like the Favorite Poem Project, which brings people of every possible, description into the library to share their favorite poem. In our library in Taos last year that meant citizens reading Charles Bukowski, Kenneth Patchen, Robert Frost( yeah, yeah, you knew that) Anna Ahkmatova, Ani De Franco, and a couple of tiny little boys who read Shel Silverstien. I actually heard someone express an objection to this because the idea came from Robert Pinsky, whose work they didn't like. Jeez We give poetry a place in the community. Who else does that? Laurie Macrae __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:09:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Boring In-Reply-To: <20010613193201.90542.qmail@web10804.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Michael wrote: > is there any reason other than pleasure to engage > in something as useless as reading poetry? i > suspect there isn't... > I have to agree with Patrick. Reading poetry is often pure existential engagement, nothing more. So is writing it. Can be like watching birds landing on a highway. Just watch; it's automatic. Many other activities fall into this category, very often-- most of which, in some way, are thought to give pleasure. 1. eating 2. smoking 3. biking 4. TV 5. sex/masturbation 6. music 7. pedestrian life (walking around, shopping) These activities can be distinctly like-- Staring at shapes-- or like web surfing: clicking around. Also, I've found, that if I can't write in this mode (of soul sleep? something?) in which I'm not receiving pleasure, then I can't write. Some of my best work is developed in those unpleasurable times. Go boredom! it works. -Aaron Belz http://meaningless.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:54:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Readings--June 2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich New York City FREE June 16 Al Greenberg, Janet Holmes, Fred Marchant June 23 Jay Liveson, Jo Sarzotti, Peter Rojcewicz June 30 NO READING--COME TO THE MERMAID PARADE IN CONEY ISLAND--SEE POETS AS MERMAIDS, SEA HORSES, AND STARFISH ON THE BOARDWALK! The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder, Director Patrick Donnelly, Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Jason Schneiderman, Co-Directors Martha Rhodes, Executive Director The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of Hudson. The closest trains are the 1-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. For additional information, contact Michael Broder at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:30:32 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Boring In-Reply-To: <20010613193201.90542.qmail@web10804.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Answer to your question: Is pleasure is the *only* reason & the *only* cause for doing *anything*? I would not be so sure. My little twelve step program for withdrawing from the dimension of pleasure isn't necessarily a confession of my "self" though some things may be nominally true about my nominal little self. these 12 reasons are reasons anyone could have given for doing anything. these are just some of the things in this world that motivate people to do things. motivations quite possibly are not all towards pleasure, and motivations are not necessarily the substratum for activity. i cannot say for sure that you are wrong, i cannot say that every action, every effort does not reduce to pleasure-seeking with any certainty, but i sure have my doubts you can know that it does. besides, that would make "pleasure-seeking" a sort of tautological theory of behavior. weird thing is, i trust language on a certain level. it can tell us things, perhaps false things, but reasons enough for speculating on the possibility that we are not all so fundamentally egocentric, where we are not something like mystical acorns lodged deep within our bodies or spirits, etc. what self is, is and will likely remain a mystery. and, well, some people who are miserable in this world do read poetry, people with f'ed up reasons of all sorts, or people with things beyond their control (or some combination of both). it happens on this planet, or at least I believe so. you also said: "everything we do is based on some > prior condition or concept of self" whoa. how can you be so sure? i don't think you can be so sure. though i guess it's possible you are. i agree with your comment about positing an unconscious mind... change that to "body". i wrote the following last night, a sort of obvious joke on the surface (if you dig philosophy, & I believe you do) but then a not so obvious joke underneath. things can get complicated quickly, and then they get sort of strange, into a world without answers. it's based on some very excellent graffiti i saw last night that said, "everything you know is wrong." i laughed at it, but then i don't believe we can know we know, and so on.... justified true belief is knowledge some of the things you know are wrong after all, at the end of your post, i think what we believe is not that far apart. i don't think you're just aware of your uncertainties. after all as you mention a gestalt can be made of many things into one thing, hence the possibility of all things boiling down to pleasure-seeking. yet you acknowledge something that you agree with about what i wrote those possibly many things forming the gestalt. the uncertainty itself is a sign. thanks for your sincerity michael. best, Patrick Patrick "St. Thomas" Herron > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of michael amberwind > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:32 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Boring > > > is there any reason other than pleasure to engage > in something as useless as reading poetry? i > suspect there isn't... > > > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry > > Other than Pleasure > > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > > Presumably a pleasurable habit. > > > > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need > > for suffering. > > Take pleasure from suffering do we? > > > > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force > > myself to see other ways of > > writing, of saying. > > Again, sounds close to pleasure to me. The > pleasure of new ways of seeing. The same reason > one might travel or read National Geographic > > > > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored > > and they need something to do. > > And relieving boredom is not simply another way > of saying seeking pleasure? > > > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > > You must enjoy annoying other people. > > > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, > > I've read it without > > thinking about it, without reason. > > Pleasure can be prerational can it not? > > > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > > And take pleasure in their company... > > > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus > > and I've been infected. > > Perhaps - there are other metaphors of contagion > one might use as well, such as laughter... > > > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's > > ego. > > Well you can read poems like that to me anytime! > > > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > > I'd have a hard time seeing the reading of a poem > as a favour in the same way picking up milk at > the store is a favour. > > > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or > > disappointed. > > Bad poetry does that to me - but I hardly seek it > out > > > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which > > is not the same thing as > > pleasure). > > Close enough in my books... > > > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a > > person would read poetry for > > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many > > editors suffer through much of > > their submissions. > > I suspect most editors take a "neutral" stance > towards unsuitable submissions. Clearly the > "pleasure" of finding publishable work overcomes > the "pain" of reading mediocre or unsuitable > work. > > > My point here is that there is so much of what > > we do has "no reason" or no > > conscious propagation; some of us just end up > > reading it. I'm obviously > > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > > hedonistic enterprise. > > I disagree - everything we do is based on some > prior condition or concept of self. I don't think > we need to posit an "unconscious" mind to see > that people move towards pleasure, and avoid > pain. Yes, even masochists. > > > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a > > thing for me to find one > > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > > Perhaps - but a multiplicity of situations can be > seen as a single gestalt. A rainstorm is a > confluence of circumstances resulting in a single > thing - namely, the rainstorm itself. Poetry is a > confluence of words creating a single object > capable - if it is a "good" piece of work - of > bearing many interpretations. Likewise the > "reasons" for reading poetry can come from > multiple sources, but ultimately is fulfilled > completely in its own design. > > > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > > unowned. > > > > Thanks, > > Patrick > > > ===== > ...I am a real poet. My poem > is finished and I haven't mentioned > orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call > it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery > I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. > [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:07:12 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: list stats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Great Britain 19 > > > This surprises me. > > -Aaron I take it you mean in respect of a little number, Aaron. It doesn't surprise me. This is still the land of snob-culture, repackaged now as chatty newgen. The last thing many in Britculture want is communication, they thrive on frustrating others. So the general tone of literary culture is that of a talking corpse, most of what life there is comes from expats from out of the sea's ozone haze surprises. Best David Bircumshaw Leicester (UK) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Belz" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:55 PM Subject: Re: list stats > > > > Great Britain 19 > > > This surprises me. > > -Aaron > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:47:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: death row roll call? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Nation has always struck me as being most un-progressive a journal with regards to poetry, or at least it has in the 25 or so years that I've been reading it. You're right about the death row bad humor on the submissions page browser title. If I had wanted to submit, I would think twice. If St. Louis is "a bit out of the picture," then where is the picture? I thought it was dispersed to all dimensions. Charles At 04:13 PM 6/12/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Check out the browser title of the Nation's submission guidelines page: > >http://www.thenation.com/about/guidelines.mhtml > >Makes me a little leery of submitting!! > >By the way, what is the status of the Nation as a poetry venue? Still taken >seriously? I'm obviously a bit out of the picture, being in St. Louis and >all. > >Best, >Aaron Belz >http://meaningless.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:03:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Eileen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Komninos ,, sorry for dropping the 'n' in my previous note must've been a religeous fervor!!! and i thought Shaking'a'spear was a modernist i'm almost relieved Smeliot und Pound was modernities//pete spence > > hi kominos >that's komninos >for anyone who cares to not offend. >hmmm. i would have thought eliot and pound were being modernist long before >1960. > >komninos _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:13:43 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Boring In-Reply-To: <200106131118.f5DBIg398808@im.mgt.ncu.edu.tw> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am reluctant perhaps because really chose to be a poet, and I never chose the circumstances that made me this way. Those circumstances, I can assure you, were frequently not pleasurable. I am quite sure, now that I have socialized with other poets, that I am not alone in this experience. Looking at history, poets often become poets out of personal torment (mental illness, substance abuse, ill fortune, and so on). The relief of such torments that takes the form of poetry can only tenuously be called pleasurable. Sometimes it's as pleasurable as removing a gaffing hook from one's own side. Sometimes writing damn well tastes like Castor Oil, but then there's this something inside or outside of me that does not give me much choice in the matter. It is intimately bound with my very existence, so for me, choosing to "change my habits" would not be good for me. Reading poetry, as I'm sure you know, is an integral part of writing poetry, and so for many of us, the reading bit is in union with the writing bit. So, reading poetry is not necessarily pleasurable, and I doubt I am some marginal exception to the dominance of pleasure-seeking. Of course, sometimes poetry IS pleasurable. But the pleasure is, for me, as much of an exception as any other reason. "> You try to get what you want & what you want you desire & what you desire > you find somehow pleasurable, isn't that the way it works? The rest comes > via blindness, ignorance." Sometimes desire is overrated. Consciousness is perhaps overrated, too. Blindness and ignorance, hmm. it depends what sort of blindness we are talking about. Ultimately we are ALL blind, every single one of us. Poetry that fails to know that it doesn't hold much in the way of knowledge often fails to be poetry. This isn't necessarily a search for happiness or pleasure; it could be a search for some peace, some quiet. Sometimes the search just ends up finding you. If poetry is read for pleasure, then should we not consider *anything* that is either difficult, painful, or tragic "marginal"? Surely tragic poetry is hardly marginal, for one. Display is absolutely necessary to communication. If you didn't display you would not communicate. As far as the content of this list, I'd much rather see MORE of the personal displays you criticize (we caught you preening too!) and less of the marketing displays. More discussion, less advertising. But that's not something I'd like to get into and we've all heard this by now. It's a widened cup pounded flat. Thanks for your thoughtful reply and adding to the substantive discussion. Best, Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuven BenYuhmin [mailto:robert@im.mgt.ncu.edu.tw] > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 7:19 AM > To: UB Poetics discussion group > Cc: patrick herron > Subject: RE: Boring > > > Patrick, > > When one says that they do anything for a*n*y single reason there's > always an exception, sure, nothing's that simple and someone with a quick > wit can point to that exception & you have. However, I hope there's tongue > in check in the twelve reasons you note for reading poetry other then > pleasure ( you say you're "reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > hedonistic enterprise" & why the reluctance?) > > Out of habit. Out of an unconscious need for suffering(perhaps). Because I > feel I must force myself to see other ways of writing. Because my eyes are > bored and they need something to do. To annoy other people. > Because *flash* > there it is, I've read it without thinking about it, without reason (seems > du*b, might as well watch the gluetube). To annoy other people > (perhaps your > worst reason/motive; no reason to hurt or harm others, surely there's > tongue in check here, an attempt at humor). Because language is > a virus and > I've been infected ( surely affectation, not you being true, just > cute, no? > you really mean it, fine then there's not much I can say except > be happy. & > this comment holds true for most of your remaining 12 reasons. To stroke > another person's ego. To get pissed off or disappointed. > > Maybe I'm out of it, and maybe people nowadays read for such > reasons , but > are they REALLY good reasons & if not I'd say give them up, change your > habit, get better habits. At least a tad of higher pleasures:-) Still, > everyone has their own shtick, so be bored if you must, be unhappy if you > please, .....no, that won't work either, please too close to pleasure:-) > > I find much that gets written to the digest is just overflow, a > chance for > display, a chance to preen one's literary feathers. I read this digest > to see what new presses are around, what new Ezines are on line, > & what new > books are in print. My preference in poetry & poetics seems best to mesh > with the folks who subscribe to this digest & so I really enjoy browsing > here. > > Reuven BenYuhmin > > You try to get what you want & what you want you desire & what you desire > you find somehow pleasurable, isn't that the way it works? The rest comes > via blindness, ignorance. > > > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:26:24 -0400 > > From: patrick herron > > Subject: Re: Boring > > > > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry Other than Pleasure > > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > > > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need for suffering. > > > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force myself to see > other ways of > > writing, of saying. > > > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored and they need > something to do. > > > > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > > > > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, I've read it without > > thinking about it, without reason. > > > > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > > > > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus and I've been infected. > > > > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's ego. > > > > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > > > > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or disappointed. > > > > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which is not the same thing as > > pleasure). > > > > > > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a person would read > poetry for > > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many editors suffer > through much of > > their submissions. > > > > My point here is that there is so much of what we do has "no > reason" or no > > conscious propagation; some of us just end up reading it. I'm obviously > > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of hedonistic enterprise. > > > > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a thing for me to find one > > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > > > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams unowned. > > > > Thanks, > > Patrick > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:16:56 +0000 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: boring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael wrote: > is there any reason other than pleasure to engage > in something as useless as reading poetry? i > suspect there isn't... > This Could Be More Useless People read poetry. I do not understand them. Of course I am writing this because it pleases me to do so. My pleasure is in publishing poetry. Since people can pay money for the books, we publish these, they are good poetry books consisting of good poems. Through publishing more poetry each year that I am told people relish and these people talk to me I ordinarily would not talk to want to talk to me and I respond in all sorts of awkward manifestations that seem fitting, leotards of language, lets say, we just bend the bow prance out the poetry in Columbus, Ohio. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:15:59 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Boring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael. your critique of Patrick's "Poem/Statements" is concise and i take some of your points. But Patrick hs written some excellent stuff: and you dont comment on what Patrick was attempting - perhaps I agree not the "best' of what he is capable, but it's good to see some 'take' on the discussion ...such as it is. There's not enough put on the list...but I think that Patrick was attempting a kind of tabulated series which enters into the spirit of discussion. But its good to see this kind of interaction. Patrick I think stuff closer to: Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams unowned. As a series would be good.... Even detached or contrasted this works well: maybe with some revision your series would be great. But I'll see what if anything the incisive Mr Amberwind hs to say about my "The Red" post.Themn we might have the chance to view his own wonderful gems. Regards all, Richaard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael amberwind" To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:32 AM Subject: Re: Boring > is there any reason other than pleasure to engage > in something as useless as reading poetry? i > suspect there isn't... > > > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry > > Other than Pleasure > > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > > Presumably a pleasurable habit. > > > > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need > > for suffering. > > Take pleasure from suffering do we? > > > > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force > > myself to see other ways of > > writing, of saying. > > Again, sounds close to pleasure to me. The > pleasure of new ways of seeing. The same reason > one might travel or read National Geographic > > > > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored > > and they need something to do. > > And relieving boredom is not simply another way > of saying seeking pleasure? > > > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > > You must enjoy annoying other people. > > > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, > > I've read it without > > thinking about it, without reason. > > Pleasure can be prerational can it not? > > > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > > And take pleasure in their company... > > > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus > > and I've been infected. > > Perhaps - there are other metaphors of contagion > one might use as well, such as laughter... > > > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's > > ego. > > Well you can read poems like that to me anytime! > > > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > > I'd have a hard time seeing the reading of a poem > as a favour in the same way picking up milk at > the store is a favour. > > > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or > > disappointed. > > Bad poetry does that to me - but I hardly seek it > out > > > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which > > is not the same thing as > > pleasure). > > Close enough in my books... > > > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a > > person would read poetry for > > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many > > editors suffer through much of > > their submissions. > > I suspect most editors take a "neutral" stance > towards unsuitable submissions. Clearly the > "pleasure" of finding publishable work overcomes > the "pain" of reading mediocre or unsuitable > work. > > > My point here is that there is so much of what > > we do has "no reason" or no > > conscious propagation; some of us just end up > > reading it. I'm obviously > > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > > hedonistic enterprise. > > I disagree - everything we do is based on some > prior condition or concept of self. I don't think > we need to posit an "unconscious" mind to see > that people move towards pleasure, and avoid > pain. Yes, even masochists. > > > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a > > thing for me to find one > > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > > Perhaps - but a multiplicity of situations can be > seen as a single gestalt. A rainstorm is a > confluence of circumstances resulting in a single > thing - namely, the rainstorm itself. Poetry is a > confluence of words creating a single object > capable - if it is a "good" piece of work - of > bearing many interpretations. Likewise the > "reasons" for reading poetry can come from > multiple sources, but ultimately is fulfilled > completely in its own design. > > > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > > unowned. > > > > Thanks, > > Patrick > > > ===== > ...I am a real poet. My poem > is finished and I haven't mentioned > orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call > it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery > I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. > [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:57:30 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "][mez][" Subject: Re: _S][mall][ervo-Monito.Red ][heart][Beats_ Comments: To: Maria Damon In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:09 PM 13/06/01 -0600, you wrote: >mez! i love you! i've heard so much about you and seen you in action at >the live thing at the trAce conference. welcome to poetix! > >maria d heya maria, thx:) have ben trying to get on this list for a while now, glad to finally b here....nice 2 get a warm welcome:) cheerz, mez . . .... ..... net.wurker][mez][ n.sert x.coins.x .here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:25:12 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Boring And THE GREAT POEM THE RED MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ruevin . I like the way you say what you say. But rea "A Poetics" by Charles Bernstein...he invokes (in avery brillliant and no-boring language) such poets as Swinburne, Emly Dickinson, Morris as well as points out that a cntral one-canonaonical English is as an "outworn creed"...a misconception. Writing is many englishes, many styles...Gertrude Stein was aware that the Swiburne of "Hendecalsyllabics" with all his transgressions (sexual and over-kill if you like in mellifluity etc) had literally reached "the end of the line" ...in France Mallarme was into symbolism and the new open field prose poem...Wilde was going wild: his innovations being more social-sexual-intellectual...Stephen Crane is also invoked: this is not boring writing...the idea of sometimes a contrasting or undercutting "dryness" is perhaps not new but useful. The language poets were not too young for acid it was around over here in little old New Zealand in the sixties, but I'd stopped writing by the end of 1969 and i have never "done drugs" per se...."ecstasy" is the latest way for young people to go crazy or die)...reciprocal masturbation: a bit strong...its good to hear praise but then that praise is useless if hollow: but you use interesting language...your email is interesting, not boring! At the moment though its all a bit abstract: what do you think of Alan Sondheim's writing...or his project? My poems "The Red" and "Summer Sonata"? "The Red" is (I think) a brilliant poem but it is totally (totally?) self-contained: paradoxically or predictably it uses iambics.It has a skipping beat as it began: beating in my head. It has no inherent meaning and is (nearly) absolutely self-referential ..altho I realise that such a state (of non-referentiality) is actually somewhat illusory. It's closer to symbolism than language poetry although there is no intentional symbolism in it. To me red is simply red, and the whole poem only means itself. This doesnt mean that the reader receiver cant comment or construct or "re-write": what that poem does illustrate is artifice - absolute artifice - but not artful artifice. The poem was simply written when I first encountered Stein's writing (about 1992) and has not much (directly) to do with that writer...the poem just "came into my head" ...it was as though I was writing music. Here's "RED"...you can get it probably from the Poetics archives or wherever: The blocks of red on red on red by black around by black by black by line by line by round. The red in red of red in red where black by back the white around. Around the bound about the white the red more red comes up the red. It rears its head. The eye the see the sight to see. The eye the see the light the sight. And Light. The light not light not bright not dim not sun. The sun not round not nup not down. The blue not there not green not grey. The grey ungrey not grey not black. The up not down the down not up. And the black not black not black on night. The light alight but light not light. The Clock Is Dead. The clock awake alive like Head. The Head like blood like hot is red. The squares the slabs the reds the blocks are chops of chunks: the chunks the chunks tghe bits. The monks. And the red and red and round the black. (There is no black.) To you my red my Square my Thing: I fall and blubber like a sun-struck King. The red on red of red the blocks.The orange the green the blue. The see the sight the steel the grey. The shape the tall the dark the great. The high the high. The finger like a finger on the sky. The eye the seen. The green. O my blocks my reds my reds my blocks: orange is not is gnomes is gone. And the red in red. (There is no red.) The square thats not thats never thats there. If red be red not _is_ not green: then red on red of red is you my Thing. And if that is you by blocks by black are red around. And black is black is black is black. And red is red is red. Connoiseuers of my oeuvre ( and they are legion) (joke) will immediately notice I have capitalised some of the nouns...hinting at Dickinson perhaps? And that (because since i wrote it I discovered justification: I'm sruggling to "justify" the text of this Great Poem...and seriously, i quest: what thinketh or careth mein readers of this mein innovation and the "holes" thus left in the "blocks" of the poem...but the thing mainly about it is to read it aloud: all poetry should at some time be read aloud...(there's a book featuring the Nuyoriscan Poets (I went to the Nuyorican in 1993) called "ALOUD" its in my local Panmure library.) but especially this which is equalled perhaps only by Blake's "Tyger" ...maybe not...anycase this is an opportunity for feed back. Posi or posi neg but let's avoid the Nyquist criteria. But "Summer Sonata" is quite different...more "sprawly"...but I had no idea per se what I was doing in either poem. Thus the idea comes now to write on top of these old poems,palimsestincestically, perhaps literally by hand, perhaps not. (possibly to be copied later things in large writing written like a child's like: BULLSHIT or CRAP or something like THE EXECUTION WILL POSSIBLY BE LIVE AT 12 PM NZ TIME SET CLOCK FOR THE EXCITEMENT and other stuff. It's all great fun. I'm all for fun and pleasure..but if Charles von Bernstein get's jollies from "boring" then so be it...he needs to explain that...but that is probably only a fraction of what he is or was talking about. Murat should put more on line himself. See the way i "put myself on line" in lines I'm online so drop me a line and we can line things up in a line and maybe light a lime: lineate the line, aline the line... and so ine.....My compatriot Wystan von Curnowine is too briefly on line. I dont know what his brief is. I dont know if he likes wine. I think he likes to dine. Do i have to be respectful to W C and C B..after all Wystan was my lecturer in 1990 and 1992 when I went back to Uni as an adult student. I'm 53. I'm short fat and balding. That's me. Or is it? What are ya...who are ya...and so on....that's MY line. Whats your line? Anycase..I'll try to put "Summer Sonata" on another email and you etal might also comment on that. I'm wanting to move away from that semi-unmediated stuff though...but its always something in my "arsenal".... I agree somewhat re the Beats...they've been a bit "done to death".... a bit like Dylan Thomas and Cohen but Thomas was a great poet...I'm not so interested in him/them now. (I mean at this very now.) But you have the whole world of writing ... and there's a lot out there of interesting and often moving writing. I'm kinda talking to myself as well as responding..I'm not criting ...I liked your email and the thoughts contained. And this Boring Debate is Interesting. Regards, Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuven BenYuhmin" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 9:27 PM Subject: Re: Boring > From your draft you misread the drift or not read more then 2 sentences. > > Reuven BenYuhmin > > > >>Yes, why would anyone read poetry but for pleasure. Especially the kind > >>of > >>poetry congenial with the agenda of the Poetics Digest > > > > > > I suppose this means that the only poetry Mr. Reuven finds pleasurable is the > > poetry congenial with the Poetics Digest agenda. Otherwise, I don't know > > where he got the idea from my words. > > > > Murat > > >> It is not an idea that I don't understand (the idea is not the same as > >> different people finding different writers boring); I just utterly disagree > >> with it. To me, pleasure it is at the heart of reading or writing, a true > >> test. > > > >> Murat > > > > Yes, why would anyone read poetry but for pleasure. Especially the kind of > > poetry congenial with the agenda of the Poetics Digest . Yes, academics > > --one of my colleagues says, he finds most contemporary poets exceedingly > > boring but feels he has to read some Ezines just to "keep up on things." > > The question is simply the old question of what's "pleasure." > > > > Actually, how many people in the world are audience for this poetry/poetics, > > just a small handful. Most of the writing /writers are compulsive--yes > > there's excitement & spurts & perhaps even waves of it, but in some cases, > > no names mentioned, we witness the runs. One must have compassion for the > > dissatisfaction, the dis-ease, the writhing that fills writing. One MUST > > surmise from the words. Much /most writing serves as reciprocal > > masturbation, please, polish my ego, give it some luster, some shine. For > > friends to read & critique, read mine, now read mine, read mine. People > > writing for money--eventually know there's none-- then writing for face, > > writing for voice, writing to blame, writing for reasons questionable. Who's > > saying what's exemplary, fine, the essence of our time ( that was the > > orthodox line), can move us beyond conventional, intellectual horizon of > > mind, higher, a bit beyond, ah ha. Not just more stimulation, getting off > > on agitation, itching a wound. > > > > Me thinks the matter a matter of aesthetics, actual experience(not just in > > the head) of higher, subtler, more refined pleasure. Pleasure too is > > hierarchical. Always ready & easy & able to let go the coarser for the > > finer. The generation (the language folk, born too late for acid, never > > knew DMT, to early and too late to meditate), frogs in a well view of > > mind, still projecting shadows onto THE world & seeing the A & B & C > > without sensuality. Engrossed (to the point of obsession) & engorged with > > ideas and views, never quiet, never at rest. Again, a question of what's > > best. What's the goal & is there one or, is it just fresh drivel, just a > > queer way to say or to see. > > > > Better me thinks get back in the body, calm and clear and expand the mind > > & watch, observe quietly what's going on , moment by moment & not more & > > more & more proliferation, fabrication, excitation keeping us spinning & > > whirling about, about & about & about & more just about. > > > > Has someone some thing enlightening to say, mind expanding, moving-- at > > least the romantics were romantic, not just running sores of the tongue & > > mouth. The fetid breath as poetic presence becomes increasingly > > unappealing, students yawn at the thought of poetry, the beats become a bit > > boring, the language folk& they're snoring. Although not repetitive in the > > usual sense, you finish reading & you're always asking: yes, but so what? > > So what? Perhaps we can't, shouldn't, needn't ask more from poetry/poetics, ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:37:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: Poetry in The New York Review of Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just have to get the final approval but I want you to think about the possibility of advertising your books, chapbooks and journals. Pass it on as long as you know it's not official until the end of this week. I just want to see who's interested. This circulation is 119,00 and this will run for six weeks. It will be a color jacket copy and text similar to our independent press listing... Send this on to publishers of your poetry books, chapbooks and journals! Thanks! Reply requested by June 28, 2001 Date: June 11, 2001 To: Poetry Press Directors, Marketing Managers, and Journals Managers From: Prageeta Sharma, Advertising Associate, New York Review of Books Re: Summer 2001 Combined Poetry Press Co-operative Ad (New!) Greetings: The New York Review of Books would like promote poetry after "National Poetry Month" in order to encourage people to enjoy poetry all year around. We plan to showcase our combined poetry press Co-operative ad in our August issue, August 9, which will be on sale for 6 weeks. We will feature poetry titles from all presses that would like to participate. The listing fees, which are provided below, are all-inclusive, covering participation, design, production, space costs, typesetting, and proofreading. $155 for each title listing of 1-10 lines $165 for each title listing of 11-21 lines $45 for each four-color book jacket The following pages include information on the listing format and subject categories. The reply form appears on the last page. Please send the completed reply form with all typed listings to arrive by mail or fax no later than June 28, 2001. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to call me at (212) 757-8070, ext. 3009. I can also be reached via e-mail at: psharma@nybooks.com. Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:42:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: need info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi all, Does anyone happen to have contact info for Tina Darragh, such as e-mail, phone number? Also, does anyone know anything about the whereabouts of one Marc Lowenthal, who published a series of small chapbooks called the Club of Odd Volumes out of Buffalo a couple of years ago? Please backchannel and thank you much, Marcella ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:16:23 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Red Shifts / Maggie O'Sullivan Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Poetryetc , wryting@julian.uwo.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No apologies for cross-posting But apologies if you get this twice and that annoys you ------------------------------------------------------------------ REVIEW: red shifts / Maggie O'Sullivan Etruscan; £7.50 / $US14.95; ISBN 1 901 538 25 7 distributed by Peter Riley (UK), SPD (N America) Collected Works (Australia) A square book, well-produced, in colour. It's a size format I think that I first saw in Bob Cobbing's _Bill Jubobe: selected texts 1942-1975_ from Coach House in 1976 and which Etruscan used for Cobbing's _Shrieks and Hisses_ in 1999; but that may all be coincidence. It opens into a red-printed double page. On the left-hand, a thrice-drawn line, pointing towards, on the right, on the title page, that is... a bat? a rat or mouse? unexpected, visible, there, the way they are, we and they, living in different coincident spaces, different realities, different points of view, different movements and vectors. Us and words. Us and sight. You and me. Over, on the next page, a thin vertical twisting line, top to bottom, draws a line "under" the title and continues the theme somewhat; then separate and after (reading left to right), a horizontal jagged line. Above it, text follows, up and down, child's mountains, rhyming the thrice-drawn line in the previous double spread where each of the three is following and leading the other two, a wavering trodden path, birds in a flock, varying and repeating, drawn in red, red shifts. The text, like clouds above the angular mountain line, starts "thrine" (uphill) & "roam" (downhill). The book roams. I roam through the book. Thrine! An invented word. Thine... through... line... What else? Enthralled? Shine? (I, just now, checking this for obvious typos, think of D H Lawrence's Paul Morel talking of the shine on leaves signifying their life - a little sententious, but not wrong) Elsewhere the text is also horizontal and centred, and left-margined and right-margined, words in fields and systems, up to the edge of cliffs created by the printer's guillotine, a double spread as one spread, text block cut in two and falling each way away from the book spine, analysed; "breathing breathing breathing" it says. Look at it again and I see ribs (of "breathing") exposed, a torso fashioned from words and pages, itself each other's companion... "reach of the peacock's / blistering blistering thresholds" - How Maggie O'Sullivan can write! (exclamation stolen from Forster on Austen) Single and double pages drawn wordless, but not voiceless; and words found in words, new lexicons: "fe(th)ur" Stories forming. Not fragments of stories, but cells of telling, forming into the told, swimming over each other, combining. The breath of the author. Red shift is a consequence of viewpoint in a world of relative motion. Change standpoint and you change viewpoint. If you would see things as they are, then you must see things from all points of view! The view is partial, a red shift. I am partial to this book. Red shift is an indication that things are expanding, flying apart from that maybe centre which may not hold, individual things become separate, more - seemingly - themselves. Emptiness of the observation room - "sometimes she cries", printed - type text - alone, in the white. Black on white, together, meditational. All manner of cries! Figurative non-representational drawings in the text as well as *of the text. Land-texts. I suppose I could be clearer, but I might be less true. There is nothing else like this writing, though there is writing akin to it. *I feel akin to it in my writing, or a desire to be akin to it. I recognise it. I know where I am with it, as I do *not know where I am with most other writing, a world I recognise when I am given the opportunity to read of it, a world I could not have thought of without the reading. A door in a wall. It is hard to speak of. O'Sullivan has moved on and out from "In the house of the shaman" (Reality Street, 1993), combining the painterly and the literary more fully. Brilliant. Lawrence Upton --------------------------------------------------- http://pages.britishlibrary.net/lawrence.upton/ http://www.crosswinds.net/~subvoicivepoetry/ http://www.crosswinds.net/~writersforum/ --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:01:15 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Naropa summer plans Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all-- I just joined the list and thought some of you might want to peruse the happenings at the Naropa Summer Writing Program this year. I have coordinated the program for the past several years and think there is some good poetic food there. It's a long document, but if any of you have ever thought about checking it out this is a draft of the day to day schedule. Julie K Naropa Summer Writing Program #27 The Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics Summer Writing Program 2001 Schedule 6/12/01 draft SATURDAY June 16 8 p.m. Reclaim Democracy Benefit, Reading and Performance An evening of poetry, American folk music and words about corporations and the undermining of democracy featuring Anne Waldman, Mark Miller, Steven Taylor and David Barsamian at the Dairy Center for the Arts, Studio A. Ther= e will be a silent auction selling gift certificates and other items. Address: 2529 Walnut Admission: tickets are five dollars+ , plus other donations SUNDAY June 17 4-6 Convocation Required for all credit students All participants in the summer program come and introduce ourselves and commence the summer's activities Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe 7 p.m. Bombay Gin Magazine Party following convocation in Shambhala Hall in the Lincoln Building, all invited to celebrate the release of the literary magazine, food and drink provided-- this is a tentative event--details of this event will be announced at Convocation WEEK ONE: June 18-24 CROSS GENRE/ INFRA-STRUCTURE STRATEGIES Twenty First Century poetics suggests a hybrid of form, language, context, subversive technical awareness and the continuing role of the writer as navigator, gadfly, dreamer, agitator in the belly of the corporate beast. Are the differences between "prose" and "poetry" set in stone? Are they pedagogical? Philosophical? Economic? Explore the possibilities with some o= f America=B9s most radical experimental writers. This week we will also be honoring artist/writer Joe Brainard (who during his life worked with hybrid form himself) whose show will be mounted at the Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art concurrent with our program. We will also feature an even= t with compadres from The Poetry Project at St. Mark=B9s in New York and discus= s ways in which writers can also create programs, centers, "temporary autonomous zones" outside the academic mainstream. Alice Notley, Jena Osman, Will Alexander, Bob Perelman, Thalia Field, Lewis Warsh, Keith Abbott, Heather Thomas, Ken Mikolowski, Brian Evenson, Ozzie Cheek, Joanne Kyger GUESTS: Rikki Ducornet, Mei Mei Berssenbrugge, Edmund Berrigan, Bill Berkson, Ed Friedman, Jenny Smith, Danika Dinsmore, Michael Friedman MONDAY JUNE 18 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall Note: for information on meditation instruction please call the summer mediation coordinator in student services at 303-546-5298 or pick up flyer in the SWP office 9-12:30 Printshop / class #1 In the Harry Smith Printshop 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #1 All locations for workshops will be posted on the porch bulletin board of the SWP office on Sunday evenings before classe= s start 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3 Panel: Cross Genre/ Infra-Structure Strategies with Alice Notley, Jena Osman, Ken Mikolowski, Will Alexander, Bob Perelman, Lewis Warsh CHAIR: Anne Waldman Location: PAC 3-5 MFA Poetry Class with Anne Waldman Required for all MFA poetry students, attendance optional for others-- MFA students pick up your COURSE PACKET in the SWP office- these readings and assignments are required. Location: PAC 8 p.m. Penny Lane Reading: Special Guest Edmund Berrigan Welcome Naropa University SWP Students Open Reading Penny Lane Coffee Shop at 1738 Pearl Street TUESDAY June 19 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #2 same locations as Monday 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #2 same locations as Monday 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3 Lecture: "Cubism, the Blues, Visions: An Interview Between Alice Notley and Edmund Berrigan" intro: Anselm Hollo Location: PAC 3-4:30 MFA Prose Class with Keith Abbott Guest: Ozzie Cheek Reading Location: PAC 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Edmund Berrigan, Heather Thomas, Will Alexander, Alice Notley Intros: Reed Bye for Alice and Will and Danielle Poitras (MFA Naropa) For Heather and Eddie Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) 2130 Arapahoe Avenue WEDNESDAY June 20 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-10 Prose Chat with Brian Evenson Open only to MFA prose students, come and bring coffee or tea and chat informally with one of our prose faculty. Location: Sycamore 300 9:30-12 BA Discussions Groups (required for and open only to BA credit students) Meet initially all together with BA Coordinator to form smaller groups with the BA teachers, and then break into workshops Location: Meet in PAC then split up to PAC, Prajna East, Prajna West 12-1 Lunch Break 1-1:45 Lecture: Jena Osman on "Cog-Ignitions: Thinking about Objects Thinking" Some talk about poets who use computer programs to generate poems, linked to the visual artist Janet Zweig who has created computer sculptures that "think" and finally end up talking about Bill T. Jones' recent work with computer designers who have captured his movement via a computer program. Location: PAC intro: Thalia Field 2-3 Student Event details TBA Location: PAC 3-4 MFA Meeting with Andrew Schelling (acting WP Chair) and Judith Huntera (WP Administrator) this is required of all MFA students Location: PAC 4-6 Interviews This is a time to meet one on one with a faculty member to discuss your work and theirs. At least one interview per summer is require= d of all MFAs. Others will be allowed to sign up on a space available basis. Of you would like to schedule an interview please see our summer Registrar on Monday afternoon the same week or at another point during the week for openings in following weeks. You must submit a few pages of your work by Monday afternoon to allow the faculty to have time to become familiar with it by the scheduled interview time. All times and locations for interviews will be posted outside the SWP Office on the porch bulletin board on Wednesday afternoon before the interviews begin. Remember that failure to meet a scheduled interview will result in student interview privileges being suspended for the summer. 8 p.m. Scholarship Recipients Reading: This event is free and open to the public, Intros. Max Regan READERS: Veronica Corpuz, Elen Gabreab, Barbara Purbaugh, Pia Deas, Simone Sandy, Renold Rose INTERMISSION, Shane Book, Deena Wade, Mary Cheryl Crow, Mara Simmons, Duncan Barlow, Santee Frazier Location: PAC 2130 Arapahoe Avenue THURSDAY June 21 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #3 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #3 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break - Edmund Berrigan will be holding an informal chat about poetry over the lunch break. Grab a sandwich and join him on the lawn= . 1:30-3:30 Experimental Prose Panel: with Brian Evenson, Lewis Warsh, Rikki Ducornet. Chair: Thalia Field Location: PAC 3:30-4:30 Student Panel TBA details Location: PAC 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Bob Perelman, Jena Osman, Mei Mei Berssenbrugge, Joanne Kyger Intros: Anselm Hollo (for Bob and Joanne), Andrew Schelling (for Mei Mei an= d Jena) Location: PAC 2130 Arapahoe Avenue FRIDAY June 22 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #4 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #4 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3:30 Lecture: Bill Berkson on Brainard: "Working with Joe" intro: Michael Smoler Joe Brainard (1942-1994) was a brilliant artist and writer whose friendship= s with poets--among them, Frank O'Hara, Anne Waldman, Ted Berrigan, Ron Padgett, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley, Kenward Elmslie and Berkson himself--often extended to collaborating with them on collages and comics, as well as to designing covers for their books and sets for their plays. Recollecting, surmising, mulling over a friendship of some thirty years, reading from his own and the artist's writings, showing slides of works Brainard created with him as well as with other poets, Bill Berkson will present compendious evidence on the one-of-a-kind Brainard genius, together with thoughts on artistic collaboration, generally. This lecture i= s given on the occasion of the first major retrospective of Joe Brainard's art, curated by Constance Lewallen, opening on June 22 at the Boulder Museu= m of Contemporary Art. Location: at Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art Theater -- 1750 13th Street 4:00-5:00 Colloquium (first fifteen minutes to printshop) Required for all credit students --Faculty, weekly participants, come celebrate the week=B9s unfolding Location: PAC 5:00-6:00 Booksigning Come mix, mingle, sign books and have books signed, all faculty and students for the week are invited to attend Location: outside the Naropa Bookstore, at 2130 Arapahoe campus 6-9 Joe Brainard Art Opening at BMOCA Location: Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art at 1750 13th Street 9 p.m. Joe Brainard Reading Justin Veach/MC, with Bill Berkson, Anne Waldman, Bobbie Hawkins, Michael Friedman, Steven Taylor, Joanne Kyger, Lewis Warsh Location: Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art at 1750 13th Street SATURDAY June 23 10-12 Dharma Art with Bill Scheffel Music is permanent, only listening is intermittent-- H..D. Thoreau "Dharma Art refers to the lively and liberated quality of any gesture executed with attention, without aggression or too much self editing. As Basho said of haiku ""the composing must be done in n instant, like felling a massive tree o, like leaping at a formidable enemy, like cutting into a watermelon, or biting into a pear." In this course we learn and practice sitting mediation and study the teaching of Chogyam Trungpa (and others, including Allen Ginsberg and her Mind Writing Slogans) on space awareness, object arranging, and poetic composition. Every class includes a talk, mediation, "hands on" awareness exercises and writing. (Open to all interested participants registered for the week-- it is ideal to take all four classes but you may attend all, one, or any combination thereof) Location: The Meditation Hall 1-3 Event: PANEL: The Poetry Project & Community Organizing: Danika Dinsmore, Jenny Smith, Ed Friedman Chair: Max Regan, SWP Administrative Director Location: PAC 3-5 InfraStructure Reading: Danika Dinsmore, Jenny Smith, Ed Friedman, Ken Mikolowski, and Max Regan Intros:Veronica Corpuz Location: PAC 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Thalia Field, Lewis Warsh, Rikki Ducornet, Brian Evenson Intros: Max Regan (Lewis and Thalia) Bobbie Hawkins (Rikki and Brian) Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe SUNDAY June 24 8 p.m. Student Reading - Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe hosted by your student coordinators: Maureen, John, and Chris-- All students registered for the week are invited to attend and to sign up i= n the office to read one or two things=8Bpriority will go to those who have not yet read during the summer. This event is free and open to the public WEEK TWO: June 25-July 1 POLITICS OF IDENTITY/GENDER/QUEER THEORY At a time when diversity is artistically rich and strong, the very nature o= f the right-wing intolerant "political covenant" threatens the rights and well-being of people "of difference" everywhere. Join major writers who hav= e investigated their own cultural, racial, sexual metabolisms with bravery an= d skill, and who rise above the cliched sitcom mediocrity that controls and makes mockery of dissent. Is the issue one of body, of mind, of imagination? The Naropa writing community has long been struggling with these issues in the bubble town of privileged Boulder, articulating the beauties of "transgression", and the linguistic powers of torquing the "father" tongue. Poet and scholar Robin Blaser, warrior of the legendary San Francisco Renaissance will honor our academe, along with Samuel R. Delany whose elegant science fiction narratives defy old models and define an exquisitely imagined "future" turf. ___________________________________________________________________________= _ __________ Akilah Oliver, Mary Angeline, kari edwards, Roberto Tejada, Cole Swensen, Eileen Myles, Robert Gl=FCck, Alexs Pate, Samuel R. Delany, Tom Glave, Thalia Field, Jules Faye and Chris Stern, Kay Campbell GUESTS: Michael Duplessis, Robin Blaser MONDAY JUNE 25 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall Note: for information on meditation instruction please call the summer mediation coordinator in student services at 303-546-5298 or pick up flyer in the SWP office 9-12:30 Printshop / class #1 Location: The Harry Smith Printshop 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #1 All locations for workshops will be posted on the porch bulletin board of the SWP office on Sunday evenings before classe= s start 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3 Panel: Politics Of Identity/Gender/Queer Theory with Sam Delany, Eileen Myles, Roberto Tejada, Robin Blaser, kari edwards, Akilah Oliver, Thalia Field CHAIR: Cole Swensen Location: PAC 3-5 MFA Poetry Class with Anne Waldman Location: PAC Required for all MFA poetry students, attendance optional for others 8-9 Penny Lane Open Reading at Penny Lane Coffee Shop at 1738 Pearl Stree= t 9-11 Penny Lane Special Event Featured Reading: Anne Waldman, Steven Taylor= , Junior Burke and Akilah Oliver TUESDAY June 26 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #2 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #2 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3 p.m. Lecture: Roberto Tejada intro: Danielle Poitras/staff Location: PAC 3-4:30 MFA Prose Class with Keith Abbot Guest: Sam Delany Location: PAC 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: kari edwards, Sam Delany, Akilah Oliver, Tom Glave Intros: Kay Campbell (Akilah and kari) Keith Abbot (Glave and Delany) Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe WEDNESDAY June 27 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-10 Prose Chat with Alexs Pate Open only to MFA prose students, come and bring coffee or tea and chat informally with one of our prose faculty Location: Syc 300 9:30-12 BA Discussions Groups Location: meet in PAC then split off to PAC, Prajna East, Prajna West 12-1 p.m. Lunch Break 1-2:30 Lecture : Robin Blaser, intro: Anne Waldman Location: PAC 2:30-3:30 p.m. Student Lecture : Deb Sica? tentative event-details TBA- 3:30-4 MFA Meeting with Andrew Schelling (acting WP Chair) and Judith Huntera (WP Administrator) this is required of all MFA students Location: PAC 4-6 Interviews This is a time to meet one on one with a faculty member to discuss your work and theirs. At least one interview per summer is require= d of all MFAs. Others will be allowed to sign up on a space available basis. Of you would like to schedule an interview please see our summer registrar on Monday afternoon the same week or at another point during the week for openings in following weeks. You must submit a few pages of your work by Monday afternoon to allow the faculty to have time to become familiar with it by the scheduled interview time. All times and locations for interviews will be posted outside the SWP Office on the porch bulletin board on Wednesday afternoon before the interviews begin. Remember that failure to meet a scheduled interview will result in student interview privileges being suspended for the summer. THURSDAY June 28 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #3 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #3 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3:30 Identity, Narrative/anti-Narrative Panel: Robert Gl=FCck, kari edwards, Tom Glave CHAIR: Alexs Pate Location: PAC 3:30-4:30 Lecture : Cole Swensen "The Hand Writing" Location: PAC A look at handwriting as the graphic body of the author, the corporeal vestige of thought. We'll focus on the work of Cy Twombly, Henri Michaux, and Bob Grenier. With slides. intro: Anselm Hollo 4:30-5:30 Lecture: Michael DuPlessis on "Flat Like Gender, Flat Like Sex, o= r My Father=B9s Vagina" Are sex and gender nonsequiturs? This presentation of questions about sex, gender, and sexuality combines poetry and critical discourse to speculate bout sex and gender as found objects and their availability for collage tactics. intro: kari edwards/or staff Location: PAC 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Mary Angeline, Cole Swensen, Robert Gl=FCck, Alexs Pate Intros: Laura Wright (Naropa alumni) for Mary and Cole Bobbie Hawkins for Robert and Alexs Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe FRIDAY June 29 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #4 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #4 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3 Lecture: Discussion with Alex Pate and Eileen Myles intros: Laurence Paverd (Naropa MFA alumni) Location: PAC 3-4:30 Colloquium (first fifteen minutes to printshop) Required for all credit students --Faculty, weekly participants, come celebrate the week=B9s unfolding Location: PAC 4:30-5:30 Booksigning Come mix, mingle, sign books and have books signed, all faculty and students for the week are invited to attend Location: outside the Naropa Bookstore, at 2130 Arapahoe campus 8 p.m. Student Reading - Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe hosted by your student coordinators, John, Chris, and Maureen All students registered for the week are invited to attend and to sign up i= n the office to read one or two things=8Bpriority will go to those who have not yet read during the summer. This event is free and open to the public. SATURDAY June 30 10-12 Dharma Art with Bill Scheffel Music is permanent, only listening is intermittent-- H..D. Thoreau "Dharma Art refers to the lively and liberated quality of any gesture executed with attention, without aggression or too much self editing. As Basho said of haiku ""the composing must be done in n instant, like felling a massive tree o, like leaping at a formidable enemy, like cutting into a watermelon, or biting into a pear." In this course we learn and practice sitting mediation and study the teaching of Chogyam Trungpa (and others, including Allen Ginsberg and her Mind Writing Slogans) on space awareness, object arranging, and poetic composition. Every class includes a talk, mediation, "hands on" awareness exercises and writing. (Open to all interested participants registered for the week-- it is ideal to take all four classes but you may attend all, one, or any combination thereof) Location: The Meditation Hall 1-4 Workshop Transforming the Queer/Dreaming Outside the Binaries Coming together to envision ways we can all contribute to the healing of the splits and binaries that exist within all communities: gay/lesbian/bisexual; queer; people of color; political etc. Your input needed! with Riki Fire, activist and artist Location: Naropa (PAC) 2130 Arapahoe Avenue 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Robin Blaser, Eileen Myles, Roberto Tejada, Bobbie Hawkins Intros: Andrew Schelling (Blaser and Tejada) Akilah Oliver (Eileen and Bobbie) Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe SUNDAY July 1 11:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. Transforming the Queer -Community Dialogue (today an= d tomorrow's events are co-sponsored by Naropa's SWP, Diversity Services Center, and Student Services Center; The Women's Resource Center at the University of Colorado; CU Boulder Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Resource Center; Boulder Pride; and BMoCA) [This innovative] community dialogue will bring together a diverse panel o= f artists, activists, academics and healers to create a space of transformation and discussion. [The community dialogue will begin with a healing ritual and welcoming ceremony. Dreaming Beyond the Binary=EDs dialogu= e format embraces open discussion with audience, panelist presentation, performance art and poetry.] Location: Boulder Museum for Contemporary Art (BMoCA) 1750 13th Street [between Canyon and Arapahoe] WEEK THREE: July 2-July 8 INVESTIGATIVE POETICS/ "TOTAL SATURATION JOBS" From some point of view it=B9s ALL investigative. But this week attention focuses on writers who have taken on the scholarship of biography, documentation, translation, and memoir. What bag of tricks & skills does on= e need to suss out a subject and its subtext? What is the voyeur=B9s pleasure = - in the realm of empathy - through words? Charles Olson conjures "istorin"= , the sense of "finding out for oneself". Ed Sanders=B9 PHRASE "total saturatio= n job" is useful in that it posits a requisite immersion. Guest lecturer Pete= r Lamborn Wilson will dazzle us this week with insights on "Hieroglyphia." Documentation (of facts & figures) seems urgent as the planet requires guardians and keepers of the flame to insure that literary inquisitiveness is passed on. Young generation activists and archivists Lisa Jarnot and Kristin Prevallet will give us the latest scoop. ________________________________________________________________________ Anne Waldman, Lisa Jarnot, Simon Ortiz, Anselm Hollo, Jack Collom, Kristin Prevallet, Donald Guravich, Junior Burke, Brian Evenson, Charles Alexander GUESTS: Ronna Johnson, Peter Lamborn Wilson MONDAY JULY 2 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall Note: for information on meditation instruction please call the summer mediation coordinator in student services at 303-546-5298 or pick up flyer in the SWP office 9-12:30 Printshop / class #1 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #1 All locations for workshops will be posted on the porch bulletin board of the SWP office on Sunday evenings before classe= s start 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3 Panel: Investigative Poetics/ "Total Saturation Jobs" Peter Lamborn Wilson, Simon Ortiz, Lisa Jarnot, Anselm Hollo CHAIR: Andrew Schelling Location: PAC 3-5 MFA Poetry Class with Anne Waldman Required for all MFA poetry students= , attendance optional for others Location: PAC 8-9 Penny Lane: Open Reading 9-11 Penny Lane: Naropa Alumni Poetics Reading Location: Penny Lane Coffee Shop at 1738 Pearl Street TUESDAY July 3 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #2 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #2 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-2:15 Lecture: Lisa Jarnot Lecture on Robert Duncan and Field Theory A discussion of the Black Mountain School and Robert Duncan's role in its poetic theories. This lecture will incorporate biographical information about Duncan with an explanation of the formal innovations of his poetry. intro: Derek Fenner (Naropa MFA alumni)/ or SWP staff Location= : PAC 2:15-3 Lecture : Kristin Prevallet "A poem is never by itself alone": A practical guide for investigative poets. This talk will present examples and strategies for project-oriented approaches to activity-based poetry. intro: Julie K. /SWP staff Location: PAC 3-4:30 MFA Prose Class with Bobbie Hawkins Guest: Donald Guravich Location: PAC 4:30-5:30 Student Panel: details TBA Location: PAC 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Donald Guravich, Lisa Jarnot, Anselm Hollo, Kristin Prevallet Intros: Veronica Corpuz (MFA candidate Naropa)-Lisa and Anselm Laurence Paverd (MFA Alumni) -Donald and Kristin Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe WEDNESDAY July 4 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-10 Prose Chat with Jr. Burke Open only to MFA prose students, come and bring coffee or tea and chat informally with one of our prose faculty Location: Syc 300 9:30-12 BA Discussions Groups Location: PAC then split off to PAC, Prajn= a East, Prajna West 12-1 Lunch Break 1-2 Lecture: Ronna Johnson: "From Silent to Beat to Revolutionary: Mapping Women Writers of the Beat Generation" intro: Anne Waldman This presentation introduces the field of women Beat writers, positing some criteria for their identification as Beat and inclusion in that literary movement. The discussion examines the way women beat writers have been elided from constructions of the Beat, situates the elided writers within the movement, and recounts the processes by which the women writers have instantiated themselves in the Beat, even against the elisions of popular history and the dominant male writers in the group. Finally, the discussion suggests some ways Beat is expanded and altered by the inclusion and consideration of the negated women writers of the movement. Those writers provide another way of understanding Beat's relation to successive postmodern movements and artistic directions. Location: PAC 2-3 MFA Meeting with Andrew Schelling (acting WP Chair) and Judith Huntera (WP Administrator) this is required of all MFA students Location: PAC 4 - 6 Interviews This is a time to meet one on one with a faculty member t= o discuss your work and theirs. At least one interview per summer is require= d of all MFAs. Others will be allowed to sign up on a space available basis. Of you would like to schedule an interview please see our summer registrar on Monday afternoon the same week or at another point during the week for openings in following weeks. You must submit a few pages of your work by Monday afternoon to allow the faculty to have time to become familiar with it by the scheduled interview time. All times and locations for interviews will be posted outside the SWP Office on the porch bulletin board on Wednesday afternoon before the interviews begin. Remember that failure to meet a scheduled interview will result in student interview privileges being suspended for the summer. 6 p.m. Picnic and Fireworks on the Naropa Lawn THURSDAY July 5 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #3 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #3 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3:30 Prose Panel: Donald Guravich, Jr. Burke, Brian Evenson CHAIR: Bobbie Hawkins Location: PAC 3:30-5 Lecture: Peter Lamborn Wilson #1: "Cross-dressing in the Anti-Rent War and Other Lost Histories" Cross-dressing... (of New York, state & city)= , including eugenics, The Iroquois Confederation, witches & pagans, Moorish art & architecture, utopias, pirates. Location: PAC intro: Laurence Paverd 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Peter Lamborn Wilson, Lucia Berlin, Charles Alexander, Simon Ortiz Intros: TBA for Charles and Peter and Akilah Oliver for Lucia and Simon Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe FRIDAY July 6 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #4 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #4 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1-3 p.m. Lecture: Peter Lamborn Wilson #2: "Hieroglyphica" A reading of a new unpublished work, in mixed prose&poetry. "Monastery"; "Sumerian Economics"; "Devinculis in genere"; "The Origin of the Yueh-Chi"; "The New Eugenics"; "Hermopolis"; "Iconoclasm". Location: PAC intro: Laurence Paverd 3-4:30 p.m. Colloquium (first fifteen minutes to printshop) Required for all credit students --Faculty, weekly participants, come celebrate the week=B9s unfolding Location: PAC 4:30-5:30 Booksigning Come mix, mingle, sign books and have books signed, all faculty and students for the week are invited to attend Location: outside the Naropa Bookstore, at 2130 Arapahoe campus 8 p.m. Student Reading Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) -hosted by your student coordinators, John , Maureen and Chris All students registered for the week are invited to attend and to sign up i= n the office to read one or two things=8Bpriority will go to those who have not yet read during the summer. This event is free and open to the public. SATURDAY July 7 10-12 Dharma Art class with Bill Scheffel Music is permanent, only listening is intermittent-- H..D. Thoreau "Dharma Art refers to the lively and liberated quality of any gesture executed with attention, without aggression or too much self editing. As Basho said of haiku ""the composing must be done in n instant, like felling a massive tree o, like leaping at a formidable enemy, like cutting into a watermelon, or biting into a pear." In this course we learn and practice sitting mediation and study the teaching of Chogyam Trungpa (and others, including Allen Ginsberg and her Mind Writing Slogans) on space awareness, object arranging, and poetic composition. Every class includes a talk, mediation, "hands on" awareness exercises and writing. (Open to all interested participants registered for the week-- it is idea= l to take all four classes but you may attend all, one, or any combination thereof) Location: The Meditation Hall 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Keith Abbott, Junior Burke, Jack Collom Intros: Pam Martin (Naropa alumni) for Keith and Junior Josepha Conrad (Naropa alumni) or Julie K. (SWP Staff) for Jack Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) at 2130 Arapahoe SUNDAY July 8 Bootstrap Press Event details and location TBA WEEK FOUR: July 9-July 15 PERFORMANCE/ INTER-ARTS/ SANGHA The Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics would not exist without the dedication of its ongoing, supportive, alternative community. Students are welcome to take the vow to "keep the world safe for poetry" (& all the othe= r genres & myriad genders) - it is at the heart of the agenda - in this final week of performance, inter-arts and community. Long time Summer Faculty guest, the ecological writer and activist Peter Warshall will instruct us i= n the beauties of inter-species art and communication. Other guests this week embrace the page and the stage with their innovative words & music. Saxophone artist and composer Steve Lacy and singer Irene Aebi will teach a workshop on how they work with poets=B9 lyrics. Kenward Elmslie will provoke with his canny gestures and mind-boggling text. Erica Hunt will team up with Marty Ehrlich to show us how it -the duo - is done. Sangha, Sanskrit for community, carries our sense of purpose and commitment. ___________________________________________________________________________= _ __________ Erica Hunt, Marjorie Welish, Maureen Owen, Edwin Torres, Steven Taylor, Ang= e Mlinko, Andrew Schelling, Steve Lacy and Irene Aebi, Bobbie Hawkins, Julie Seko, Julie Patton, Bhanu Kapil Rider, Kass Fleisher GUESTS: Marty Ehrlich MONDAY JULY 9 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall Note: for information on meditation instruction please call the summer mediation coordinator in student services at 303-546-5298 or pick up flyer in the SWP office 9-12:30 Printshop / class #1 in the Harry Smith Printshop 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #1 All locations for workshops will be posted on the porch bulletin board of the SWP office on Sunday evenings before classe= s start 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3:30 Visual Arts and Performance Panel: Marjorie Welish, Maureen Owen, Edwin Torres, Steve Lacy, Irene Aebi, Kenward Elmslie, Julie Patton CHAIR= : Steven Taylor (or Anne) Location: PAC 3:30-5:30 MFA Poetry Class with Anne Waldman Required for all MFA poetry students, attendance optional for others--Location: PAC 8 p.m. Penny Lane Reading Open Reading with a focus on performance - Location: Penny Lane Coffee Shop at 1738 Pearl Street TUESDAY July 10 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #2 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #2 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-2:30 Student Lecture: (20 lecture/10 discussion) Location: PAC Ronnie Corpuz on "Developing a Digital Poetics" 2:30-3:30 Student Lecture: (20 lecture/10 discussion) Location: PAC Simone Sandy on "The Anxiety of Oppression: Social Stratification and Literary Influence" 3:30-5 MFA Prose Class with Bobbie Hawkins Guest: Kass Fleisher Location: PAC 5 PM Deadline: make sure you submit work for the SWP magazine by today if you would like to be included--put it in the box in the SWP office--please follow the guidelines available in the office 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Ange Mlinko, Kass Fleisher, Marjorie Welish, Edwin Torres Intros: Marc DuCharme (for Marjorie and Ange) Steven Taylor (for Edwin and Kass) Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe WEDNESDAY July 11 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9:30-12 BA Discussions Groups Location: meet in PAC and then split up to PAC, Prajna East, Prajna West 12-1 Lunch Break 1-2 The Lyric Lately Lecture by Marjorie Welish Location: PAC on "The New York School and the Metapoetic Lyric" The extended New York School experiment draws attention to the literarines= s of poetry. To differing degrees, the principal poets incorporate the resources of writing, and comment on its codes. In retrospect, the poetics of the New York School may come to be read less through utterance and more through construction, thanks in part to the belated transmission of semioti= c literary theory from abroad which only further invited further literariness in the production and reception of this poetry. intro: Julie K/staff 2-3 Student Panel details TBA Location: PAC 3-4 MFA Meeting with Andrew Schelling (acting WP Chair) and Judith Huntera (WP Administrator) this is required of all MFA students Location: PAC 4-6 Interviews This is a time to meet one on one with a faculty member to discuss your work and theirs. At least one interview per summer is require= d of all MFAs. Others will be allowed to sign up on a space available basis. Of you would like to schedule an interview please see our summer registrar on Monday afternoon the same week or at another point during the week for openings in following weeks. You must submit a few pages of your work by Monday afternoon to allow the faculty to have time to become familiar with it by the scheduled interview time. All times and locations for interviews will be posted outside the SWP Office on the porch bulletin board on Wednesday afternoon before the interviews begin. Remember that failure to meet a scheduled interview will result in student interview privileges being suspended for the summer. 8 p.m. Student Reading Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe hosted by your student coordinators, John, Maureen, and Chris All students registered for the week are invited to attend and to sign up i= n the office to read one or two things=8Bpriority will go to those who have not yet read during the summer. This event is free and open to the public. THURSDAY July 12 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #3 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #3 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1:30-3:30 Prose Panel and Discussion : Kass Fleisher, Bhanu Rider CHAIR: Bobbie Hawkins Location: PAC 3:30-5 Lecture : Kenward Elmslie: "Champ Dust: Poet and Artist: The Collaborative Process" , intro. Steven Taylor Location: PAC 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Bhanu Rider, Maureen Owen, Andrew Schelling Julie Patton Intros: Anselm Hollo (for Andrew and Maureen) Max Regan (for Julie Patton and Bhanu) Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe FRIDAY July 13 8-8:45 Meditation (recommended) Location: the Meditation Hall 9-12:30 Printshop / class #4 10-12:30 Workshops/ class #4 12:30-1:30 Lunch Break 1-3 Lecture/Talk: Steve Lacy, Irene Aebi, Anne Waldman: "On Collaboration" Location: PAC intros: Anne Waldman 3-5 Closing and Colloquium (first fifteen minutes to printshop) Required for all credit students --Faculty, weekly participants, come celebrate the week=B9s unfolding Location: PAC 5-6 Booksigning Come mix, mingle, sign books and have books signed, all faculty and students for the week are invited to attend Location: outside the Naropa Bookstore, at 2130 Arapahoe campus 8 p.m. Performance: "Champ Dust": Kenward Elmslie=B9s show at BMoCA, with Steven Taylor INTROS: Anne Waldman and Justin Veach Location: Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art -- 1750 13th Street 10 p.m. Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art Event (not required) Late Night Snack Show: THE UNEXPECTED / RIOT HOSE: an investigation of futility involving the relationship between the individual, the state of the union, revolutionary culture, and milk by Los Angeles based artist Katy Chang. w/milk and cookies. $8 Naropa SWP Student Special SATURDAY July 14 10-12 Dharma Art with Bill Scheffel Music is permanent, only listening is intermittent-- H..D. Thoreau "Dharma Art refers to the lively and liberated quality of any gesture executed with attention, without aggression or too much self editing. As Basho said of haiku ""the composing must be done in n instant, like felling a massive tree o, like leaping at a formidable enemy, like cutting into a watermelon, or biting into a pear." In this course we learn and practice sitting mediation and study the teaching of Chogyam Trungpa (and others, including Allen Ginsberg and her Mind Writing Slogans) on space awareness, object arranging, and poetic composition. Every class includes a talk, mediation, "hands on" awareness exercises and writing. (Open to all interested participants registered for the week-- it is ideal to take all four classes but you may attend all, one, or any combination thereof) 5 p.m. Gertrude Stein Plays- "The Winter is Sunny" with Anne Waldman, Kay Campbell and other Gertrude Stein Players, sets and costume by Jane D. Holl= o Location: BMoCA 8 p.m. Faculty Reading: Anne Waldman, Irene Aebi and Steve Lacy, Erica Hunt and Marty Ehrlich, intros: Mark Miller Location: Performing Arts Center (PAC) --2130 Arapahoe SUNDAY July 15 12-2 Steven Taylor's Songwriting Class Performance at Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art Location: at Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art Theater -- 1750 13th Street 3 p.m. Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art Event RIOT HOSE with Special Guests The Puppetrators followed by reception. $8 Naropa SWP Student Special MONDAY July 16 8-11 p.m. Penny Lane Reading: Farewell Naropa SWP students open reading Location: 1738 Pearl Street ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:09:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: _S][mall][ervo-Monito.Red ][heart][Beats_ Comments: To: netwurker@HOTKEY.NET.AU In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010613143729.0093eec0@pop.hotkey.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" mez! i love you! i've heard so much about you and seen you in action at the live thing at the trAce conference. welcome to poetix! maria d At 2:37 PM +1000 6/13/01, ][mez][ wrote: >_S][mall][ervo-Monito.Red ][heart][Beats_ >- >- >--relat][ed][ional components birth-mixed >--a silvered cord held snappish N slashed >--removal.of.constr][ucts][aints >--placental oohs N ahhs >- >--whip-like b][uttered][looms N leve][ls][rs >--edging round warm echoed ][s.][paces >--swarmed genderish reel][ities][ play thru N r][ustle][epeat >- >--subsetting in2 co][zy][red mantles >--selling sleep-units N smoothed out f][ertile][ingertips >--trip-toeish thicknesses N rubberband body contract][ual][ions >- >- >- >- >--modem singing >vs >--phone g][igabyting][urgling >- >- >--angst decay >vs >--fabriced pressure >- >- >- >--awkward sen][tence][ses >vs >--com][bustible][plete ][e][motion > > > > > > > > > > > >. . .... ..... > net.wurker][mez][ > n.sert x.coins.x .here. xXXx > ./. > www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker >.... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:39:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: **Announcement** (fwd) (off-topic) (apologies) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi - Azure and I are getting married in a couple of hours! We're having a reception a month from now here in New York - if you're around, please back channel! We're then moving in August to Miami, where I'll be teaching New Media at Florida International University. This is fairly out of the way for a flesh meet, but if you're passing through - love, Alan to everyone! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:46:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: SORTER - by Patrick F. Durgin / Duration Press Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As Jerrold Shiroma has mentioned to this list, the Duration Press website is expanding / redesigning to include, among other features, a bookstore. I'll leave Jerrold to announce such things as they come together and / or as he pleases. However, I did want to mention that Duration has just published my chapbook, SORTER, as a free pdf-format book. You can download SORTER at www.durationpress.com/bookstore/ebooks/pdurgin/sorter.pdf Or visit the ebooks section of the bookstore for various file-formats of SORTER. www.durationpress.com/bookstore/ebooks/index.htm www.durationpress.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:10:21 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Re: Boring Comments: cc: michael_amberwind@yahoo.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Michael, Kudos on a fine post , intelligent , unequivocal & to the point(s). Good that you had the patience to go point by point, & to illuminate some fuzzy thinking. When I got to the "annoy people," I thought, well, he must be kidding, & for his sake I would hope he is. Strange the things that give others pleasure, & I'd guess, after thinking about this a bit more, that the 12 reasons he gives are a source of pleasure, which makes me think things are worse then I suspected. Many of Patrick's points (habit, an unconscious need for suffering, my eyes are bored, to get pissed off, to annoy, because language is a virus) disavow any responsibility for his actions. I thought the goal to envision was becoming more mindful, more conscious, rather then to fall back into mindlessness. Reuven BenYuhmin Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:32:01 -0700 From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Boring is there any reason other than pleasure to engage in something as useless as reading poetry? i suspect there isn't... > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry > Other than Pleasure > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. Presumably a pleasurable habit. > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need > for suffering. Take pleasure from suffering do we? > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force > myself to see other ways of > writing, of saying. Again, sounds close to pleasure to me. The pleasure of new ways of seeing. The same reason one might travel or read National Geographic > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored > and they need something to do. And relieving boredom is not simply another way of saying seeking pleasure? > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. You must enjoy annoying other people. > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, > I've read it without > thinking about it, without reason. Pleasure can be prerational can it not? > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. And take pleasure in their company... > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus > and I've been infected. Perhaps - there are other metaphors of contagion one might use as well, such as laughter... > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's > ego. Well you can read poems like that to me anytime! > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. I'd have a hard time seeing the reading of a poem as a favour in the same way picking up milk at the store is a favour. > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or > disappointed. Bad poetry does that to me - but I hardly seek it out > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which > is not the same thing as > pleasure). Close enough in my books... > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a > person would read poetry for > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many > editors suffer through much of > their submissions. I suspect most editors take a "neutral" stance towards unsuitable submissions. Clearly the "pleasure" of finding publishable work overcomes the "pain" of reading mediocre or unsuitable work. > My point here is that there is so much of what > we do has "no reason" or no > conscious propagation; some of us just end up > reading it. I'm obviously > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > hedonistic enterprise. I disagree - everything we do is based on some prior condition or concept of self. I don't think we need to posit an "unconscious" mind to see that people move towards pleasure, and avoid pain. Yes, even masochists. > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a > thing for me to find one > central root, one core reason, for reading it. Perhaps - but a multiplicity of situations can be seen as a single gestalt. A rainstorm is a confluence of circumstances resulting in a single thing - namely, the rainstorm itself. Poetry is a confluence of words creating a single object capable - if it is a "good" piece of work - of bearing many interpretations. Likewise the "reasons" for reading poetry can come from multiple sources, but ultimately is fulfilled completely in its own design. > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > unowned. > > Thanks, > Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:04:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Boring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The best thing about Patrick's list is its spirit, its ability to open up the discussion. Wonderful list Patrick. Murat In a message dated 6/14/01 10:09:16 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: >Michael. your critique of Patrick's "Poem/Statements" is concise and i >take > >some of your points. But Patrick hs written some excellent stuff: and you > >dont comment on what Patrick was attempting - perhaps I agree not the "best' > >of what he is capable, but it's good to see some 'take' on the discussion > >...such as it is. There's not enough put on the list...but I think that > >Patrick was attempting a kind of tabulated series which enters into the > >spirit of discussion. But its good to see this kind of interaction. Patrick > >I think stuff closer to: > > > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams unowned. > > > > As a series would be good.... Even detached or contrasted this works > >well: maybe with some revision your series would be great. But I'll see >what > >if anything the incisive Mr Amberwind hs to say about my "The Red" > >post.Themn we might have the chance to view his own wonderful gems. Regards > >all, Richaard Taylor. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "michael amberwind" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:32 AM > >Subject: Re: Boring > > > > > >> is there any reason other than pleasure to engage > >> in something as useless as reading poetry? i > >> suspect there isn't... > >> > >> > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry > >> > Other than Pleasure > >> > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > >> > > >> > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > >> > >> Presumably a pleasurable habit. > >> > >> > > >> > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need > >> > for suffering. > >> > >> Take pleasure from suffering do we? > >> > >> > > >> > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force > >> > myself to see other ways of > >> > writing, of saying. > >> > >> Again, sounds close to pleasure to me. The > >> pleasure of new ways of seeing. The same reason > >> one might travel or read National Geographic > >> > >> > > >> > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored > >> > and they need something to do. > >> > >> And relieving boredom is not simply another way > >> of saying seeking pleasure? > >> > >> > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > >> > >> You must enjoy annoying other people. > >> > >> > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, > >> > I've read it without > >> > thinking about it, without reason. > >> > >> Pleasure can be prerational can it not? > >> > >> > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > >> > >> And take pleasure in their company... > >> > >> > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus > >> > and I've been infected. > >> > >> Perhaps - there are other metaphors of contagion > >> one might use as well, such as laughter... > >> > >> > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's > >> > ego. > >> > >> Well you can read poems like that to me anytime! > >> > >> > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > >> > >> I'd have a hard time seeing the reading of a poem > >> as a favour in the same way picking up milk at > >> the store is a favour. > >> > >> > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or > >> > disappointed. > >> > >> Bad poetry does that to me - but I hardly seek it > >> out > >> > >> > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which > >> > is not the same thing as > >> > pleasure). > >> > >> Close enough in my books... > >> > >> > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a > >> > person would read poetry for > >> > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many > >> > editors suffer through much of > >> > their submissions. > >> > >> I suspect most editors take a "neutral" stance > >> towards unsuitable submissions. Clearly the > >> "pleasure" of finding publishable work overcomes > >> the "pain" of reading mediocre or unsuitable > >> work. > >> > >> > My point here is that there is so much of what > >> > we do has "no reason" or no > >> > conscious propagation; some of us just end up > >> > reading it. I'm obviously > >> > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > >> > hedonistic enterprise. > >> > >> I disagree - everything we do is based on some > >> prior condition or concept of self. I don't think > >> we need to posit an "unconscious" mind to see > >> that people move towards pleasure, and avoid > >> pain. Yes, even masochists. > >> > >> > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a > >> > thing for me to find one > >> > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > >> > >> Perhaps - but a multiplicity of situations can be > >> seen as a single gestalt. A rainstorm is a > >> confluence of circumstances resulting in a single > >> thing - namely, the rainstorm itself. Poetry is a > >> confluence of words creating a single object > >> capable - if it is a "good" piece of work - of > >> bearing many interpretations. Likewise the > >> "reasons" for reading poetry can come from > >> multiple sources, but ultimately is fulfilled > >> completely in its own design. > >> > >> > >> > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > >> > unowned. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Patrick > >> > >> > >> = ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:54:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: annie finch Subject: death to new formalism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Interesting discussion about form. It strikes me that the question is not "Who wants to be bound by a lot of quite arbitrary rules?". In fact, lots of postmodern poets do, whether they are exploratory poets or new formalists. There is not really a huge amount of STRUCTURAL difference between the rules of a sonnet or those of a patterned Mac Low piece or those of Tjanting or Quindecagon. All involve repetition of one language element or another. Ron is right that "work as diverse as Bob Grenier's and Lee Ann Brown's and Bernadette Mayer's can certainly be read as a new formalism in the most literal sense." The difference of whether a form has been used for centuries or invented for the particular poem is superficial, and not sustainable. All that's new becomes old soon enough, and if a poet is challenged by writing in an old form that has been tested over centuries rather than by inventing a new form, does that make them automatically an aesthetic reactionary? The examples Mike cites make it clear enough that the answer is no. Rhymed couplets and ballads are some of the most ancient forms, but the poems by Ostashevsky and Mohammed, not to mention Stein and Mullen, are of the moment. Nonetheless, if 99% of the formal DNA is the same--as it is between us and a chimpanzee--or even 98%--as it is between us and a banana--there is still that 1 or 2% difference to argue over. The smallness of that difference, the closeness between the two sides insofar as both are excited by language as a material, is a direct cause of the bitterness of the argument, as in Ireland or Israel, so that the majority of langpoets and new formalists still mistrust each other years after much of the mainstream has abandoned its anger against formalism. I think that the 1% or 2% difference is a crucial one and is, as Mike points out, a matter of recognizing and foregrounding the materiality of the signifier, of respecting the artifice of form and not trying to naturalize or normalize or fetishize it or use it transparently in the service of a message. It's just a miniscule difference in dosage that distinguishes a substance as poison from the same substance as medicine. But we feel the difference. Annie ( A personal note--I am relieved by this turn of events since I have for years been dubbed a "new formalist" because I chose to be challenged most deeply by old forms a decade ago, but have always felt that my project was at base an exploratory one. Maybe finally there are emerging categories that make sense). PS Using the ghost of Swift to attack the New Formalists seems a bit self-defeating. >Jeffrey. The New Formalists writing in metre and rhyme are a pathetic lot. >Who wants to be bound by a lot of quite arbitrary rules? I would and will >write in any way I want (until one is shot for such an attitude). Certainly >its important to have some understanding of metre and the history and >certain grammatical subtleties: but if a form is "required" it will be >found. Obviously its not really possible to be "formless". The NFs have >taken one set of arbitrary forms and now they "worship" those forms. Even >apart from the stuff going on in and on cyberspace: there's room for a vast >range of invention and originality and complexity (or "simplicity" if you >want it)...one of the things the Langpos have "bequeathed" and continue to >practise is the "right" to write. The right to write and write. This write >thus then becomes much more than a rite. The reader is challenged. The >writers are challenged. Language is challenged. Shakespeare and all those >old guys get turned on their heads. People start thinking about things >instead of being sucked into a morass of mush. If challenging poetry is >difficult and interesting but unpopular then so much the better. > The New Formalists are wasting everyone's time. Let's attack them: satire >and sarcasm: that's what we need...the ghost of Swift... > Death to New Formalism! >work as diverse as Bob Grenier's and Lee >Ann Brown's and Bernadette Mayer's can certainly be read as a new formalism >in the most literal sense. I would agree completely with this. _________________________________________ Annie Finch Associate Professor of English Miami University "Form is the wave, emptiness the water""--Thich Nhat Hanh Website: http://miavx1.muohio.edu/~finchar/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:18:40 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Foil'd Again Comments: To: ImitaPo , Britpo , PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for this promiscuous cross-posting, but for anyone interested in the matter of the FOIL anthology, the only attempt at saying something different in bookform on a largescale in stale Britannia in recent days, whether you agree with its ambience and contents or not, it was better than nothing, there is a review of the same at: http://www.greatworks.org.uk/ by a certain Andrew Duncan. Plus other bits. cheers david b ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:40:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r....e-biz... ...nice to see the Poetry royalty has moved to the summer palace in boulder... St. Marks U. W....mediocrity spread thin with a butter knife. ..po-biz as sitting practice... ...poetry is the 1st e-biz...the Ego shop...the single proprietar in quest of the lost ticket to the Allen Ginsberg $1,000,000 memorial sneakers lottery...e-GO & gone... ...wondering if those star-crosst lovers Marjorie Perloff & Helen Vendler...could get off the Grub Street Academic Tread & tell us...in $ & cents...what the big boy$ make... per diem..per reading..per..dream a dream of $$$... ...summer's here and the living$ easy...lotus the master in the roll$...drive he $d...to the nothingness of the mountains of the moon...faster than mind...slower than mindlessness...theeeeere's no bi$ like po-biz...Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:52:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Dunning langpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, I delayed my response to your post because I didn't want to give a glib answer and also because so many were writing in response to the word "pleasure." There is no question that readers may get pleasure in all sorts of ways, as Patrick's wonderful 12 point list implies. My basic idea in using "pleasure" as true test was to say that at the end of the day if someone still doesn't like a poem ("like," in whatever sense of the word) he or she should have the freedom to acknowledge it, instead of rationalizing it away. The word "pleasure" was used as call for liberation. Ciao. Murat In a message dated 6/8/01 11:02:13 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: >Murat. I agree that pleasure of reading is largely, but not > >totally,primary; but by boring Kelly may have meant that certain poetic > >devices work to counteract what is conventionsally a lush or "invigorating" > >poem: i think that most poets of whatever ilk would be with you against > >boredom...it sounds to me that C.B. probably threw that one out...but in > >reading A Poetics which I am finding very interesting he talks about > >absorptive versus anti-absorptive "attacks" or tactics ...which he (as >far > >as I can tell) enjoys as a method so that his work (or others maybe) will > >have say rhyme one minute,be boredom the next, lyricism the next...a mix >of > >"texts" etc and these modulate so that the work encountered by a potential > >reader is neither too facile nor so opaque that it either becomes tedious >by > >its very "beauty" (too mellifluous..."drowns the sense in odours"... to > >quote Eliot - whom C B doesnt quote by the way) ... and also counteracts >the > >"numbing" effect. So writing in a "plain and dull" style for a few passages > >might assist in the object of poetry that is like a swoon except that >it > >brings one to one's senses. (to semi quote CB's The Klupzy Girl or from > >that) I think it does depend somwhat on who one is and even when one is > >reading a text (poem or whatever): to compare it to music...I was just > >listening to Ligeti who is quite "avante garde" (correct spelling?) but > >although I enjoyed that and it was a good contrast to a lot of Bach I'd > >been listening to..and I taped it...I'll probably go back to Bach and not > >replay it for a while...there was a time when I listened to Bob Marley >for > >hours and so on. I think this poetry making is never as simple as your > >implied pleasure: that pleasure varies from reader to reader and writer >to > >writer. > > Your "true test" sounds suspiciously as if you hankered after something > >"rousing" like Hiawatha or something "straight from the heart" like > >something by Ella Wheeler Wilcox, or Keats who'se good but how much Keats > >can you read? The worst poetry is the pseudo poetic stuff that gets into > >mainstream mags: if one has to "work" a bit on a poet then that's also >a > >kind of pleasure. Also boring may be vailid in that to sidestep "boring" > >you're sidestepping "reality"...difficult as that thing is to pin down. >Life > >is very often boring (or we think it is or make it so)(but it is an > >experience or hasbeen "mentioned in despatches" as being so). You say "a > >true test"...but why should it be a test? Whose marking? The test I think >is > >the originality, intelligence,emotive qualities sound and so on all > >combined: whether it works on and worrys at the reader. Pleasure isnt good > >enough on its own. Some hard "yakka" before you get your pudding I say. > >Regards, Richard. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 3:00 PM > >Subject: Re: Dunning langpo > > > > > >> In a message dated 6/2/01 4:42:56 PM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > >> > >> >Murat. Maybe you could quote more of what was said because on the face > >> >of it > >> > > >> >it seems ridiculous to want anything to be boring. > >> > > >> > >> > >> Richard, > >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:49:50 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: list stats "Father forgive me..." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron etal. Well there are 13 from NZ. New Zealand was (and still is somewhat) culturally and historically hence somehow politically tied to Britain and from the sixties or mid fifties a shift to the US culture. In fact Christchurch is touted as being a more English town than any in England. Its also a place where people of a certain ilk will accuse you of being "a bloody pom". The England of my affections is, and shall probably forever remain, in my imagination: both my parents being English. But the feeling I get from British or English people is a certain acid conservatism: mind you these are terrible generalisations...it is also the country that produced some of the most brilliant thinkers innovators and so on. I think that the US is so large in size and population that that in itself generates enthusiasm: the need and the desire to communicate (more).....this sort of thing can be argued forever. Its strange that a highly "progressive" country such as the US still has the death penalty, but then some of the countries that crit the US are a bit dodgy: places in the Middle East and parts of Europe and India where ...well: they may have history, and museums... a friend of mine said once: "Euroe is one big museum". But the numbers. Probably there are fewer magazines and outlets in England the UK that are not dominated by "the official verse culture"...this problem happenning in the US but simply because of numbers there (albeit a bit marginalised) more small mags and more counter cultures. It "goes on" you know in England but probably the critics there are more dismissive of "experiment". It pertains here too...Wellington being more clustered around Victoria University where Bill Manhire (undoubtedly a good poet) has his "factory" to produce pseudo-modernist Manhire clones who specialise oin writing boring...well, perhaps I'd better choose another term!...terminally dull slobber that passes as "fascinating" and "new" while Auckland University (clustered around a few rather tired old gurus of language-centre d poetry) are producing ... well at least they are encouraging some alternative views. Then there was Scott Hamilton's SALT that published myself, Michael Arnold, Scott himself, Hamish Dewe,Leon Mathews, Simon Field,Miriam Bellard, Jack Ross, Thorin Kerr, James McGoram, Kenn Mitchell and Miriiam Bellard to name some in the last issue. It was never meant to be on going or official. BRIEF which attempts to be avant-garde is interesting ...edited by John Geraets...but there is not much else: a poet called Kapka Kassabova was touted about because she was attractive and from Romania! She was described as young and (implied exotic) but writes rather dubious stuff.One had to hear how beautiful she was before seeing her work!! A certain Mark Pirie (whose work is terminally dull) sells massively. So - apart from SALT - and writers such as myself, Scott Hamilton, Hamish Dewe,Jack Ross, Michael Arnold and Leon Mathews etc and my friend Leicester Kyle (whose on his own brilliant "trip") and last but most Richard Taylor: the lit scene here is pretty dead. They keep republishing Allen Curnow - who is undoubtedly a great poet - but well there's not much else...unlesss you go to the pubs and readings where sometimes some sparks are seen. But there are obviously at least 13 (enlightened?) lurkers....out there...as to Britain. My mate spent years in London and apparently it still shuts down at 11 pm like a mausoleum so God knows why people go there. My father "escaped" from England of the class system to make a life in NZ as did my uncle, who from owing ten pounds on alighting pre the Second WW in this domain, became the director manager of a large chemical company and very well to do. No hope of that in cold old England....not the "real" England of my immagination. THAT England is MINE. I claim it. Openness. That's what people lack. Openness and friendliness. Be open. Anycase 13 and 19 are odd numbers...there's something odd about the whole thing. Regards, Richard. PS Mind you I keep re-watching "84 Charing Cross Road" ("Father forgive me....")....so.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "david.bircumshaw" To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:07 PM Subject: Re: list stats > > > Great Britain 19 > > > > > > This surprises me. > > > > -Aaron > > I take it you mean in respect of a little number, Aaron. It doesn't surprise > me. This is still the land of snob-culture, repackaged now as chatty newgen. > The last thing many in Britculture want is communication, they thrive on > frustrating others. So the general tone of literary culture is that of a > talking corpse, most of what life there is comes from expats from out of the > sea's ozone haze surprises. > > Best > > David Bircumshaw > > Leicester (UK) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aaron Belz" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:55 PM > Subject: Re: list stats > > > > > > > > Great Britain 19 > > > > > > This surprises me. > > > > -Aaron > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:04:58 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: _S][mall][ervo-Monito.Red ][heart][Beats_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mez. welcome ] ] ++ # May Be you_ can)* jollly up our curren [tt} "boring" debaaaaaate?@...i havent hear&d00)(*& of you [but i welc ome you ANY any way com plete with n=beats = ah! [bigness] * skip {kidne]y} (possible) w000=== here wh << To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:57 PM Subject: Re: _S][mall][ervo-Monito.Red ][heart][Beats_ > At 08:09 PM 13/06/01 -0600, you wrote: > >mez! i love you! i've heard so much about you and seen you in action at > >the live thing at the trAce conference. welcome to poetix! > > > >maria d > > > heya maria, > > thx:) have ben trying to get on this list for a while now, glad to finally > b here....nice 2 get a warm welcome:) > > cheerz, > mez > > > > . . .... ..... > net.wurker][mez][ > n.sert x.coins.x .here. xXXx > ./. > www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker > .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 01:49:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: epithalamium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII epithalamium vows and curtains we didn't bother:and we made bows and curtsies to each other:today azure and i got married :we were the skin of one another: write substances we were the skin of one another through my vows and curtains we didn't bother! we're moving on and flying :azure in the other room and still sleeping :it's later and i couldn't sleep for want of trying:time is leaping we're seeping: write substances time is leaping we're seeping through my we're moving on and flying ! and stone is harder than our speaking thinking skins :and stone is harder than whatever we might find ourselves to say:we're coming through all inscription :and we're other and no bother:and we're other and no bother your wraithe dissolves my and we're other and no bother! memory is inconceivable, non-existent, the sun flares and destroys:it's time and nothing else, this hour, minute, second, of a form of life:we're moving, i'm awake and looking straight into the face of time:: in others' arms you read us:we are awaking in others' arms:we are others' others:vows and curtains we didn't bother:and we made bows and curtsies to each other:today azure and i got married :we were the skin of one another: _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:12:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: chris stroffolino Subject: COME CELEBRATE THE 30th ANNIVERSARY OF JIM MORRISON'S DEATH Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FREE..... On Tuesday, July 3, 2001 @ Teachers & Writers 5 Union Square West, 7th Floor 7PM (for more info, calll 212-691-6590) a book party for two new Spuyten Duyvil Books. "Are Not Our Lowing Heifers Sleeker Than Night-Swollen Mushroom?" a book of poetry by NADA GORDON and "SPIN CYCLE" a book of essays/reviews/prose by CHRIS STROFFOLINO Nada Gordon will be reading from her work and several of the writers written about in Chris Stroffolino's book will also read--- David Shapiro Jane Ransom Yuri Hospodar and perhaps others... there may also be music... and copies of the books and mr. novo. rais'n.... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:33:57 -0700 Reply-To: tease@xPUNKROCKx.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: leya+ Subject: Re: Boring Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ enjoy the tea while it's hot and dont forget to delight in its lingering aroma. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:26:24 -0400 > From: patrick herron > Subject: Re: Boring > > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry Other than Pleasure > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need for suffering. > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force myself to see other ways of > writing, of saying. > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored and they need something to do. > > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, I've read it without > thinking about it, without reason. > > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus and I've been infected. > > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's ego. > > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or disappointed. > > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which is not the same thing as > pleasure). > > > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a person would read poetry for > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many editors suffer through much of > their submissions. > > My point here is that there is so much of what we do has "no reason" or no > conscious propagation; some of us just end up reading it. I'm obviously > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of hedonistic enterprise. > > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a thing for me to find one > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams unowned. > > Thanks, > Patrick _____________________________________________________________ Get YourName@xPUNKROCKx.com --> Go to http://www.WorldWidePunks.com to sign up. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:24:47 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: if I spoke too quickly ... Comments: To: lisa jarnot In-Reply-To: <200106131248.IAA26832@hall.mail.mindspring.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did I miss a slur??? Let me go back and look. I mostly like his rantings as its fun. But I in no way uphold bullshit. I did witness Chris blatantly misuse WCW's red wheel barrow to defend his argument for something or another. It came from a direct misunderstanding of general poetic knowledge which is directly responsible for the art he creates. This just irked me and to see his quick response in another form of what I perceived as another form of snuffing out creativity - well I just shot back. I should have looked further into what m&r had to say. Thanks for pointing out racism, which I will never uphold as art! Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ -----Original Message----- From: lisa jarnot [mailto:jarnot@pipeline.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:47 AM To: ggatza@daemen.edu Subject: geoffrey! mr. funkhouser is right--- mr. nudel is a racist. (actually funkhouser is an old friend of mine. he's very legit.) more soon. x, L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:48:36 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Eileen Re: LangPos and Strange Fire Etal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poetics People and Wystan. I think there's a problem of definitions. The 'establishment' refers maybe to those so-called middle class who in fact existed both in the 1900s and the 1970s and still exist. How to decide whether the 1970s onwards LangPoets were contra an establishment? Well some were and the degree to which they were consciously driven against the conservative establishment compared to say a difficult to define avant-garde somewhere in the 1890s or 1900s is hard to determine. Avant-garde: is that always meaning "leading" and against the establishment and or revolutionary or simply the advance guard? It's probably impossible to separate a "cutting edge" movement and any general political movement: but a "revolutionary" in literature or poetry may not be so also in strict political terms. Kominos has a complaint or problem that is quite general. Hierachies...we need and dont need them and love them and hate them and need or dont need to love or hate them or support or destroy them. An example of a major innovator /avant-garde in literature and poetry is Gertrude Stein, but as to her general political outlook, it seems to have been relatively either non-existent or naive or conservative by default. Pound was a great innovator but he couldnt be accused of being revolutionary: he had rather simplistic notions of economics and politics and seems to have gone mad and even more right wing as he got older. Very few innovative writers, artists, musicians can ever be seen or even connected (except perhaps indirectly) with opposition to the status quo. Its in the interests of most to maintain the status quo. Quite a number are "liberal' and vaguely "left" but very few are heartily opposed to the system they basically feed off. A number of the Langpos were interested in Karl Marx etc and Zukovsky had some references to Marx.....but also to Bach and Spinoza etc Change happens but how do the avant garde somehow get miraculously expunged? If there isnt now an avant garde then we may as well pack up and do something else: there has to be an avant garde at all times...even if they or it is "invisible". And if there is an avant garde, regardless of their politics or the politics: the church and class systems are still playing their part. Perhaps the role is not always obvious. Nor is it obvious who is in what class or whether any artistic action is "revolutionary" or comes with any revolution or change of political import. But that certain writers become teachers or professors is almost irrelevant. It's a simple fact that we have all got to earn a living somehow. I think as well as the class struggle etc there is always another struggle and that is against a fairly natural tendency for societies to be in conflict between the young with new ideas and the old whose ideas have become somewwhat "set in stone" although in many cases the young are equally conservative. There are other intra-societal struggles that continue whatever the era or political climate. But age is always somewhat in struggle with youth. If the Lanpos were all of a mind politically revolutionary as well as poetically some sense could be made of this debate but the reality is that poets artists etal are mostly and invariably individualists - and perhaps necessarily and not neccessarily detrimentally - self-absorbed individuals.Maybe not totally self-absorbed though. Selfish in the best sense. Bu hopefully not in the sense of becoming indifferent to injustices and the need for good political change and maybe even revoution: but I suppose that (as with all of us) they need to look to themselves first. A starved or sick professor or ex LangPo or (non-ex) is just as useless as a happy and healthy non-innovative conservative...but back to kominos's comments it is possible for the professors at e-poetry to be either conservative and or innovators and in and not in the establishment...not neccessarily in that order and that might change as their life-circumstances and thoughts etc change. Do they thus run the Academy as a whole? I dont know I doubt it I'm not in the academic world as such. I mean I dont teach or attend a school or university at the moment. As always people of whatever occupation or economic "status" are variously conservative or avant-garde or whatever. I dont see any "danger" from English Lit professors either leading or thwarting a revolution. Opinions differ everywhere. It's probably "better" for such as myself on low incomes who are "outside" everything...I have no hopes or pretensions, my back is against the wall, I might consider blowing up a very large building for sufficient money or if it brings about some kind of revolution or it excites me: but then I would probably be too scared of the bomb going off too early. Terrror is the purest emotion. Regards, Richard. we are strange and made from fire who look out side with evil eyes -- Original Message ----- From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Eileen > hi kominos > hi all > I can understand you have problems. you need more history, or memory. > For instance,the avant-garde wasn't against an establishment. > i can remember when establishments began--it was sometime in the 1960s. > about the same time as modernism came along. and if there had been an > establishment in the 1900s it wasn't the one you describe, but one which the > church, the class system,had a part to play. L= poets in the 70s were > getting a formal education and getting a job like everyone else in their > generation, i don't call that 'working within the establishment as > students'. i'm comfortable about their being an avant-garde circa 1900-1910, > but not with there being one circa 2000-2010. change happens. Though > arseholes are forever. > wystan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: komninos zervos [mailto:k.zervos@MAILBOX.GU.EDU.AU] > Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2001 3:10 p.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Eileen > > > hi maria. > hi all > > i have a few problems. > > the avant-gardes of the early 1900s were against an establishment. > the establishment was government, the academy and professors. > the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets were an avant-garde of the seventies, also > often contrary to the government, professors and academy, but working > within that establishment as students. > many of the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets of the seventies are now professors. > at e-poetry and dac 2001 it seemed that an e-poetry avant-garde is > being led by professors. does this make the student body the > establishment? > does this mean that the avant-garde of the early 2000s has become the > establishment? > or is the academy split into establishment and avant-garde? > > if so, has literature become a wholly academic issue totally internal > to the academy? > > and does it mean it will disappear up its own arsehole? > > > > > > is the article on eileen just the awakening of some young journalist, > unaware of the history and existence of a 'performance > poetry/non-mainstream scene'? > > > komninos ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:50:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: McVeigh's face Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi All, Kevin (Killian) and I were in Indiana when Timothy McVeigh was executed. We were staying at my mother's house, where, if one got up early one was forcefed incendiary talk-radio. Imagine making your morning coffee to the voice of Dr. Laura. I usually skirted the issue by sleeping until 10, when Martha Stewart was on TV and the radio was turned off. Coffee with Martha was fine, learning how to make handbags decorated with the impressions of weeds dipped in paint, etc. But, we were flying back to SF the morning of McVeigh's execution, and thus, the talk-radio was on. It was mostly pro-execution. One Chicago broadcaster was actually calling McVeigh the McMurderer. So, when I got back, I read the online reportage in the New York Times, and there was a very interesting passage about people struggling to interpret McVeigh's face as he was dying. It reads like the beginning of a Roland Barthes essay: >As the witnesses to the execution spoke through the day, their >jarringly different descriptions offered a lucid but unexplored >commentary about the power of the camera. The two network >journalists chosen by lottery to watch, Byron Pitts of CBS and >Shepard Smith of the Fox News Channel, were careful not to read >anything into Mr. McVeigh's expression. Mr. Smith was especially >nuanced in reporting that Mr. McVeigh's skin had turned yellow and >that he had seemed to die painlessly; yet Mr. Smith was rare in >remaining so astutely aware that each witness would read the event >differently. As Paul Howell, whose daughter died in the bombing and >who was also a witness, said, "We didn't get anything from his face." > >But many family members who watched on closed circuit television in >Oklahoma City saw something else. After seeing images from a >stationary camera above Mr. McVeigh that stared into his face, they >said things like "We saw hatred" and "It was like I was looking at >the face of evil." > >That lesson about the camera seemed willfully lost on the >commentators, even when they noticed it. On the Fox News Channel, >John Gibson rhetorically jumped up and down after a woman who had >watched on closed circuit said it was "a slap in the face" when Mr. >McVeigh turned his head away. Mr. Gibson, inflammatory as usual, >didn't spend time wondering whether the people watching thousands of >miles away were imposing ideas on an image they could not truly come >close to. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:46:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: launch of Double Change web journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Double Change, > a web journal dedicated to French-American interaction in poetry > launches its first issue : www.doublechange.com > =20 > POEMS (in the original & in translation) from Fabienne Courtade, = Sandra > Moussemp=E8s, Kimberly Lyons and Ron Padgett. > PUBLISHING : Interviews with editors Steve Clay of Granary Books and = Damon > Krukowski of Exact Change. > REVIEWS of recent publications, READING SERIES REPORTS from Paris! > =20 > + LINKS to French & American publishing houses & websites dedicated = to > poetry. > =20 > ++ THE GERM takes Paris! The final reading of the season on June 23 = at Duc > des Lombards, celebrating the publication of a special volume of > contemporary French > poetry in translation: Le Germe 5. > =20 > e-mail us at : info@doublechange.com > --if you want to be removed from our list please send us an e-mail-- >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:36:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: annie finch Subject: death to new formalism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Interesting discussion about form. It strikes me that the question is not "Who wants to be bound by a lot of quite arbitrary rules?". In fact, lots of postmodern poets do, whether they are exploratory poets or new formalists. There is not really a huge amount of STRUCTURAL difference between the rules of a sonnet or those of a patterned Mac Low piece or those of Tjanting or Quindecagon. All involve repetition of one language element or another. Ron is right that "work as diverse as Bob Grenier's and Lee Ann Brown's and Bernadette Mayer's can certainly be read as a new formalism in the most literal sense." The difference of whether a form has been used for centuries or invented for the particular poem is superficial, and not sustainable. All that's new becomes old soon enough, and if a poet is challenged by writing in an old form that has been tested over centuries rather than by inventing a new form, does that make them automatically an aesthetic reactionary? The examples Mike cites make it clear enough that the answer is no. Rhymed couplets and ballads are some of the most ancient forms, but the poems by Ostashevsky and Mohammed, not to mention Stein and Mullen, are of the moment. Nonetheless, if 99% of the formal DNA is the same--as it is between us and a chimpanzee--or even 98%--as it is between us and a banana--there is still that 1 or 2% difference to argue over. The smallness of that difference, the closeness between the two sides insofar as both are excited by language as a material, is a direct cause of the bitterness of the argument, as in Ireland or Israel, so that the majority of langpoets and new formalists still mistrust each other years after much of the mainstream has abandoned its anger against formalism. I think that the 1% or 2% difference is a crucial one and is, as Mike points out, a matter of recognizing and foregrounding the materiality of the signifier, of respecting the artifice of form and not trying to naturalize or normalize or fetishize it or use it transparently. ( A personal note--I am relieved by this turn of events since I have for years been dubbed a "new formalist" because I chose to be challenged most deeply by old forms a decade ago, but have always felt that my project was at base an exploratory one. Maybe finally there are emerging categories that make sense). It's just a 1% ot 2% difference that distinguishes a substance as poison from the same substance as medicine. But we all feel it when we see it. Annie PS Using the ghost of Swift to attack the New Formalists seems a bit self-defeating. >Jeffrey. The New Formalists writing in metre and rhyme are a pathetic lot. >Who wants to be bound by a lot of quite arbitrary rules? I would and will >write in any way I want (until one is shot for such an attitude). Certainly >its important to have some understanding of metre and the history and >certain grammatical subtleties: but if a form is "required" it will be >found. Obviously its not really possible to be "formless". The NFs have >taken one set of arbitrary forms and now they "worship" those forms. Even >apart from the stuff going on in and on cyberspace: there's room for a vast >range of invention and originality and complexity (or "simplicity" if you >want it)...one of the things the Langpos have "bequeathed" and continue to >practise is the "right" to write. The right to write and write. This write >thus then becomes much more than a rite. The reader is challenged. The >writers are challenged. Language is challenged. Shakespeare and all those >old guys get turned on their heads. People start thinking about things >instead of being sucked into a morass of mush. If challenging poetry is >difficult and interesting but unpopular then so much the better. > The New Formalists are wasting everyone's time. Let's attack them: satire >and sarcasm: that's what we need...the ghost of Swift... > Death to New Formalism! >work as diverse as Bob Grenier's and Lee >Ann Brown's and Bernadette Mayer's can certainly be read as a new formalism >in the most literal sense. I would agree completely with this. _________________________________________ Annie Finch Associate Professor English and Creative Writing Miami University ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:18:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Re: Boring In-Reply-To: <001001c0f4a1$dcfaa660$9c6c36d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Do you take pleasure in reading poetry? I quake please her in beading roe of tree. Is this a hedonist impulse? The is a he done in insult. Yet, you do find it painful? Yes, I "fie" end it paneful. It leaves me bore read. Do you like the pain? I'll admit, I lick the pay end. Are there great rewards? Yes, they're the re: wards. Of these who are the greatest? This is the grey test re: word. Sand the buy bell tales me sow ! --- "richard.tylr" wrote: > Michael. your critique of Patrick's > "Poem/Statements" is concise and i take > some of your points. But Patrick hs written some > excellent stuff: and you > dont comment on what Patrick was attempting - > perhaps I agree not the "best' > of what he is capable, but it's good to see some > 'take' on the discussion > ...such as it is. There's not enough put on the > list...but I think that > Patrick was attempting a kind of tabulated series > which enters into the > spirit of discussion. But its good to see this kind > of interaction. Patrick > I think stuff closer to: > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > unowned. > > As a series would be good.... Even detached or > contrasted this works > well: maybe with some revision your series would be > great. But I'll see what > if anything the incisive Mr Amberwind hs to say > about my "The Red" > post.Themn we might have the chance to view his own > wonderful gems. Regards > all, Richaard Taylor. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "michael amberwind" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:32 AM > Subject: Re: Boring > > > > is there any reason other than pleasure to engage > > in something as useless as reading poetry? i > > suspect there isn't... > > > > > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry > > > Other than Pleasure > > > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > > > > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > > > > Presumably a pleasurable habit. > > > > > > > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need > > > for suffering. > > > > Take pleasure from suffering do we? > > > > > > > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force > > > myself to see other ways of > > > writing, of saying. > > > > Again, sounds close to pleasure to me. The > > pleasure of new ways of seeing. The same reason > > one might travel or read National Geographic > > > > > > > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored > > > and they need something to do. > > > > And relieving boredom is not simply another way > > of saying seeking pleasure? > > > > > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > > > > You must enjoy annoying other people. > > > > > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, > > > I've read it without > > > thinking about it, without reason. > > > > Pleasure can be prerational can it not? > > > > > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > > > > And take pleasure in their company... > > > > > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus > > > and I've been infected. > > > > Perhaps - there are other metaphors of contagion > > one might use as well, such as laughter... > > > > > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's > > > ego. > > > > Well you can read poems like that to me anytime! > > > > > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > > > > I'd have a hard time seeing the reading of a poem > > as a favour in the same way picking up milk at > > the store is a favour. > > > > > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or > > > disappointed. > > > > Bad poetry does that to me - but I hardly seek it > > out > > > > > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which > > > is not the same thing as > > > pleasure). > > > > Close enough in my books... > > > > > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a > > > person would read poetry for > > > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many > > > editors suffer through much of > > > their submissions. > > > > I suspect most editors take a "neutral" stance > > towards unsuitable submissions. Clearly the > > "pleasure" of finding publishable work overcomes > > the "pain" of reading mediocre or unsuitable > > work. > > > > > My point here is that there is so much of what > > > we do has "no reason" or no > > > conscious propagation; some of us just end up > > > reading it. I'm obviously > > > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > > > hedonistic enterprise. > > > > I disagree - everything we do is based on some > > prior condition or concept of self. I don't think > > we need to posit an "unconscious" mind to see > > that people move towards pleasure, and avoid > > pain. Yes, even masochists. > > > > > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a > > > thing for me to find one > > > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > > > > Perhaps - but a multiplicity of situations can be > > seen as a single gestalt. A rainstorm is a > > confluence of circumstances resulting in a single > > thing - namely, the rainstorm itself. Poetry is a > > confluence of words creating a single object > > capable - if it is a "good" piece of work - of > > bearing many interpretations. Likewise the > > "reasons" for reading poetry can come from > > multiple sources, but ultimately is fulfilled > > completely in its own design. > > > > > > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > > > unowned. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Patrick > > > > > > ===== > > ...I am a real poet. My poem > > is finished and I haven't mentioned > > orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call > > it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery > > I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. > > [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > - only $35 > > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:28:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Poets in Need (fwrd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lyn Hejinian asked me to forward this appeal to the list. ---------- It is well known that poetry is the least financially-rewarded of the arts,= and that, unless they can find other sources of employment or are= independently wealthy, poets live on the economic margins; should an= emergency arise, they are vulnerable to its worst effects. To respond to= such emergencies, the Poets in Need fund, a non-profit organization, has= been established. Donations to it are tax deductible. The official= statement of purpose of Poets in Need is as follows: Poets in Need is a= non-profit organization providing emergency assistance to poets who have an= established presence in the literary community as innovators in the field= and a substantive body of published work. Assistance is given only in cases= of current financial need that is in excess of and unrelated to the= recipient's normal economic situation and that is the result of a recent= emergency (due, for example, to fire, flood, eviction, or a medical= crisis). The organization is run by a Board of six members. They are= Michael Rothenberg, Leslie Scalapino, Norman Fischer, Lyn Hejinian, Suzi= Winson, and Hal Bohner. The organization is currently fundraising. Checks can be made out to Poets= In Need and mailed to Lyn Hejinian, Treasurer, 2639 Russell Street,= Berkeley, California 94705. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:57:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: **Announcement** (fwd) (off-topic) (apologies) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good luck to the couple. Murat In a message dated 6/15/01 12:21:20 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: >Hi - Azure and I are getting married in a couple of hours! We're having >a >reception a month from now here in New York - if you're around, please >back channel! > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:28:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Coletti Subject: Re: if I spoke too quickly ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is interesting to me that the most blatant thing you found in either Funkhouser's or Nudel's email was this misuse of Dr. Williams' language. I find it very peculiar that this annoyed you as much as it did. And in the effort of defending Nudel. Why is that? Why did this bother you so much and all the other vitreol not at all? John -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Geoffrey Gatza Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 5:25 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: if I spoke too quickly ... Did I miss a slur??? Let me go back and look. I mostly like his rantings as its fun. But I in no way uphold bullshit. I did witness Chris blatantly misuse WCW's red wheel barrow to defend his argument for something or another. It came from a direct misunderstanding of general poetic knowledge which is directly responsible for the art he creates. This just irked me and to see his quick response in another form of what I perceived as another form of snuffing out creativity - well I just shot back. I should have looked further into what m&r had to say. Thanks for pointing out racism, which I will never uphold as art! Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ -----Original Message----- From: lisa jarnot [mailto:jarnot@pipeline.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:47 AM To: ggatza@daemen.edu Subject: geoffrey! mr. funkhouser is right--- mr. nudel is a racist. (actually funkhouser is an old friend of mine. he's very legit.) more soon. x, L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:24:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Boring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/15/01 12:28:27 PM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << The best thing about Patrick's list is its spirit, its ability to open up the discussion. Wonderful list Patrick. Murat >> Patrick, I most certainly agree with Murat. For me, your list sends a simple and sensible message, i.e., that there are no "proper" reasons for enjoying poetry -- anything will do if it gets you home. Case closed. Best to all, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:58:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Dunning langpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i meant not to indicate that these twelve things are all routes to pleasure. quite the contrary. in and of themselves, these twelve reasons for reading poetry have *nothing* to do with pleasure, unless of course the term "pleasure" is rendered trivial (in the logical sense) and then each item is reduced in accordance with the trivial definition. Not only are these things not necessarily routes to pleasure, they are certainly are NOT pleasurable in and of themselves. I frankly do not see how sorrow could be pleasurable. That just makes no sense. I expected someone would do render my 12 points to the point of triviality reducing each one to pleasure; michael did that, but in all earnestness. I thought at first he was making a joke; when he revealed he was serious, i was actually startled. I think this term "pleasure" has been rendered trivial by so many people around here except perhaps aaron belz. thanks aaron, thanks for letting me know i'm not nuts, that people can be pretty complicated, that it may not be just my imagination. i think i was making a simple point but perhaps many are unwilling to accept that it is entirely possible for people to do things for reasons *other* than rewards/pleasures. such a theory of behavior and motivation seems overwhelmingly reductionist. actully, one could argue that ALL things are done to: preserve DNA preserve the initial concentrations of chemicals in the primordial seas (inside our cells) at least these theories have something to them, other than, "well you do x for pleasure, because everything you do is for pleasure." egardless, i want evidence!!! and richard, i misquoted myself . the line should read: unknowing you may be reading by sleeping in dreams unowned Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Thursday, 14 June, 2001 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Dunning langpo > Richard, > > I delayed my response to your post because I didn't want to give a glib > answer and also because so many were writing in response to the word > "pleasure." > > There is no question that readers may get pleasure in all sorts of ways, as > Patrick's wonderful 12 point list implies. My basic idea in using "pleasure" > as true test was to say that at the end of the day if someone still doesn't > like a poem ("like," in whatever sense of the word) he or she should have the > freedom to acknowledge it, instead of rationalizing it away. The word > "pleasure" was used as call for liberation. > > Ciao. > > Murat > > > In a message dated 6/8/01 11:02:13 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > >Murat. I agree that pleasure of reading is largely, but not > > > >totally,primary; but by boring Kelly may have meant that certain poetic > > > >devices work to counteract what is conventionsally a lush or "invigorating" > > > >poem: i think that most poets of whatever ilk would be with you against > > > >boredom...it sounds to me that C.B. probably threw that one out...but in > > > >reading A Poetics which I am finding very interesting he talks about > > > >absorptive versus anti-absorptive "attacks" or tactics ...which he (as > >far > > > >as I can tell) enjoys as a method so that his work (or others maybe) will > > > >have say rhyme one minute,be boredom the next, lyricism the next...a mix > >of > > > >"texts" etc and these modulate so that the work encountered by a potential > > > >reader is neither too facile nor so opaque that it either becomes tedious > >by > > > >its very "beauty" (too mellifluous..."drowns the sense in odours"... to > > > >quote Eliot - whom C B doesnt quote by the way) ... and also counteracts > >the > > > >"numbing" effect. So writing in a "plain and dull" style for a few passages > > > >might assist in the object of poetry that is like a swoon except that > >it > > > >brings one to one's senses. (to semi quote CB's The Klupzy Girl or from > > > >that) I think it does depend somwhat on who one is and even when one is > > > >reading a text (poem or whatever): to compare it to music...I was just > > > >listening to Ligeti who is quite "avante garde" (correct spelling?) but > > > >although I enjoyed that and it was a good contrast to a lot of Bach I'd > > > >been listening to..and I taped it...I'll probably go back to Bach and not > > > >replay it for a while...there was a time when I listened to Bob Marley > >for > > > >hours and so on. I think this poetry making is never as simple as your > > > >implied pleasure: that pleasure varies from reader to reader and writer > >to > > > >writer. > > > > Your "true test" sounds suspiciously as if you hankered after something > > > >"rousing" like Hiawatha or something "straight from the heart" like > > > >something by Ella Wheeler Wilcox, or Keats who'se good but how much Keats > > > >can you read? The worst poetry is the pseudo poetic stuff that gets into > > > >mainstream mags: if one has to "work" a bit on a poet then that's also > >a > > > >kind of pleasure. Also boring may be vailid in that to sidestep "boring" > > > >you're sidestepping "reality"...difficult as that thing is to pin down. > >Life > > > >is very often boring (or we think it is or make it so)(but it is an > > > >experience or hasbeen "mentioned in despatches" as being so). You say "a > > > >true test"...but why should it be a test? Whose marking? The test I think > >is > > > >the originality, intelligence,emotive qualities sound and so on all > > > >combined: whether it works on and worrys at the reader. Pleasure isnt good > > > >enough on its own. Some hard "yakka" before you get your pudding I say. > > > >Regards, Richard. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" > > > >To: > > > >Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 3:00 PM > > > >Subject: Re: Dunning langpo > > > > > > > > > > > >> In a message dated 6/2/01 4:42:56 PM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > > >> > > > >> >Murat. Maybe you could quote more of what was said because on the face > > > >> >of it > > > >> > > > > >> >it seems ridiculous to want anything to be boring. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Richard, > > > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:04:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Boring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks murat. you got exactly what i was trying to do, open up things, move them past "people act only for pleasure" stuff. i mean have any of you ever done anything FOR LOVE? not everything done for love is done for pleasure, i can assure you. "oh down the road the pleasure comes," blah blah blah. sometimes altruism that costs a person is possible. and heck, how can we be so sure we are ther in the first place? oh boy, i'll spare y'all. people we is not wrapped tight - Frank Zappa "dumb all over" P ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Thursday, 14 June, 2001 2:04 PM Subject: Re: Boring > The best thing about Patrick's list is its spirit, its ability to open up the > discussion. Wonderful list Patrick. > > Murat > > > > In a message dated 6/14/01 10:09:16 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > >Michael. your critique of Patrick's "Poem/Statements" is concise and i > >take > > > >some of your points. But Patrick hs written some excellent stuff: and you > > > >dont comment on what Patrick was attempting - perhaps I agree not the "best' > > > >of what he is capable, but it's good to see some 'take' on the discussion > > > >...such as it is. There's not enough put on the list...but I think that > > > >Patrick was attempting a kind of tabulated series which enters into the > > > >spirit of discussion. But its good to see this kind of interaction. Patrick > > > >I think stuff closer to: > > > > > > > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams unowned. > > > > > > > > As a series would be good.... Even detached or contrasted this works > > > >well: maybe with some revision your series would be great. But I'll see > >what > > > >if anything the incisive Mr Amberwind hs to say about my "The Red" > > > >post.Themn we might have the chance to view his own wonderful gems. Regards > > > >all, Richaard Taylor. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "michael amberwind" > > > >To: > > > >Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:32 AM > > > >Subject: Re: Boring > > > > > > > > > > > >> is there any reason other than pleasure to engage > > > >> in something as useless as reading poetry? i > > > >> suspect there isn't... > > > >> > > > >> > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry > > > >> > Other than Pleasure > > > >> > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > > >> > > > > >> > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > > > >> > > > >> Presumably a pleasurable habit. > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need > > > >> > for suffering. > > > >> > > > >> Take pleasure from suffering do we? > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force > > > >> > myself to see other ways of > > > >> > writing, of saying. > > > >> > > > >> Again, sounds close to pleasure to me. The > > > >> pleasure of new ways of seeing. The same reason > > > >> one might travel or read National Geographic > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored > > > >> > and they need something to do. > > > >> > > > >> And relieving boredom is not simply another way > > > >> of saying seeking pleasure? > > > >> > > > >> > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > > > >> > > > >> You must enjoy annoying other people. > > > >> > > > >> > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, > > > >> > I've read it without > > > >> > thinking about it, without reason. > > > >> > > > >> Pleasure can be prerational can it not? > > > >> > > > >> > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > > > >> > > > >> And take pleasure in their company... > > > >> > > > >> > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus > > > >> > and I've been infected. > > > >> > > > >> Perhaps - there are other metaphors of contagion > > > >> one might use as well, such as laughter... > > > >> > > > >> > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's > > > >> > ego. > > > >> > > > >> Well you can read poems like that to me anytime! > > > >> > > > >> > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > > > >> > > > >> I'd have a hard time seeing the reading of a poem > > > >> as a favour in the same way picking up milk at > > > >> the store is a favour. > > > >> > > > >> > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or > > > >> > disappointed. > > > >> > > > >> Bad poetry does that to me - but I hardly seek it > > > >> out > > > >> > > > >> > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which > > > >> > is not the same thing as > > > >> > pleasure). > > > >> > > > >> Close enough in my books... > > > >> > > > >> > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a > > > >> > person would read poetry for > > > >> > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many > > > >> > editors suffer through much of > > > >> > their submissions. > > > >> > > > >> I suspect most editors take a "neutral" stance > > > >> towards unsuitable submissions. Clearly the > > > >> "pleasure" of finding publishable work overcomes > > > >> the "pain" of reading mediocre or unsuitable > > > >> work. > > > >> > > > >> > My point here is that there is so much of what > > > >> > we do has "no reason" or no > > > >> > conscious propagation; some of us just end up > > > >> > reading it. I'm obviously > > > >> > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > > > >> > hedonistic enterprise. > > > >> > > > >> I disagree - everything we do is based on some > > > >> prior condition or concept of self. I don't think > > > >> we need to posit an "unconscious" mind to see > > > >> that people move towards pleasure, and avoid > > > >> pain. Yes, even masochists. > > > >> > > > >> > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a > > > >> > thing for me to find one > > > >> > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > > > >> > > > >> Perhaps - but a multiplicity of situations can be > > > >> seen as a single gestalt. A rainstorm is a > > > >> confluence of circumstances resulting in a single > > > >> thing - namely, the rainstorm itself. Poetry is a > > > >> confluence of words creating a single object > > > >> capable - if it is a "good" piece of work - of > > > >> bearing many interpretations. Likewise the > > > >> "reasons" for reading poetry can come from > > > >> multiple sources, but ultimately is fulfilled > > > >> completely in its own design. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > > > >> > unowned. > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > >> > Patrick > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> = > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:26:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Eileen Re: LangPos and Strange Fire Etal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/15/01 12:35:59 PM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: << An example of a major innovator /avant-garde in literature and poetry is Gertrude Stein, but as to her general political outlook, it seems to have been relatively either non-existent or naive or conservative by default. >> Hi Richard. Stein's "general political outlook" was perhaps toward the right (by today's standards), judging from her writings, especially the sections on the war in Alice B. Her statements that writers should focus on the sentence and not the paragraph, that paragraphs were vehicles for emotion while sentences were not, also suggests a certain puritanical streak in the author. All this is, in fact, pretty general, I admit. She did, we should not forget, live off a series of family investments which meant she never needed a "real job." This, quite obviously, enabled her to buy paintings by up and coming artists (like Picasso) which in turn led to what may be the greatest example of networking anywhere, anytime. She certainly believed in a firm aesthetic/social/political sympathy between the USA and France. When friends of hers wondered aloud if America would support France or Germany in the war, she staunchly defended America's sisterhood with France. Unfortunately, she also (like so many of her now famous friends) evinced certain suburban prejudices, particularly on the subject of race. At one point in Alice B., she writes (I'm paraphrasing) that the black culture is not so much primitive as it is unredeemably narrow. Again, by today's standards, such attitudes are "a droite." Her sexual politics were no doubt considered quite radically liberal for her time. I think I agree with you that her general outlook may have been naive. Her views of human psychology were most certainly an oversimplification. None of this, of course, alters her claim as a major innovator. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:17:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: death to new formalismgy In-Reply-To: from "annie finch" at Jun 15, 2001 01:36:11 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to annie finch: > > them automatically an aesthetic reactionary? The examples Mike > cites make it clear enough that the answer is no. Rhymed couplets > and ballads are some of the most ancient forms, but the poems by > Ostashevsky and Mohammed, not to mention Stein and Mullen, are of the > moment. > > against formalism. I think that the 1% or 2% difference is a > crucial one and is, as Mike points out, a matter of recognizing and > foregrounding the materiality of the signifier, of respecting the > artifice of form and not trying to naturalize or normalize or > fetishize it or use it transparently. Annie has me thinking again about this issue. If anyone would like a copy of the conversation between my brother and I to which she alludes (the first in a series of "COMBO x/tras") I'd be happy to send it along free of charge. I don't have time just now to elaborate, but I thought it might be useful to provide an example. I don't have any interest in what *most often* gets characterized as New Formalism. Nor am I looking to build any bridges *or* start any fires - - I'm just trying to keep my own poetry open to various possibilties and keep in dialogue with the poets I know and/or like. Having mentioned Ostashevsky, Mohammad, Sardinha, (as well as Sharma, Mlinko, Jagannathan) here's, perhaps, an earlier precedent for the sort of rhyme I'm interested in, from Zukofsky's "29 Songs": 25 No One Inn P.S. i.e. almost dreamt the face against the door a pastel's a boy's who owns it being in a war plays the market early hires a chef would look at his chef's hat flour not at the exchange of the exchanges the margin drops gets the chef walking and preparing it a cork please, be it, whose thought is it floated and by a house-boat if there wound's sleep, to be sure "then bacteria in mercurochrome?" - - yes if you want peroxide I will give you - - thrive the windings an inn the windings a face in an inn the windings no one is in in No One Inn Now, one might appropriate something more regular, say, not unlike Donne's quatrains in "The Ecstasy," but I'm interested in situating it so it feels, as it does in Mohammad's work, more like Zukofsky. Perhaps that's the interesting new development. Wish I could say more, perhaps soon. -m. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:02:59 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: **Announcement** (fwd) (off-topic) (apologies) Comments: To: Alan Sondheim In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congrats and best wishes to you and azure! Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:39 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: **Announcement** (fwd) (off-topic) (apologies) > > > Hi - Azure and I are getting married in a couple of hours! We're having a > reception a month from now here in New York - if you're around, please > back channel! > > We're then moving in August to Miami, where I'll be teaching New Media at > Florida International University. This is fairly out of the way for a > flesh meet, but if you're passing through - > > love, Alan to everyone! > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:58:42 -0700 Reply-To: rovasax@rova.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: McVeigh's face In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dodie I was struck by the news report lead sentence which read something like "Timothy McVeigh died today unknowingling staring into the eyes of OK City bombing survivors who watched through a hidden camera mounted in the ceiling..." how do they know it was "unknowingly?" and the strange dissatisfaction engendered by this -- that at the end he got to stare them in the face but they werent able to return the stare -- thus it must have been "unknowingly" -- and an odd parallel to the act he committed: having offed 150+ people without looking any of them in the eye, the ultimate act of cowardice, he wd be offed by the will of the masses w/out any of them looking him in the eye... hence the fascination w/ his face... the need to draw some kind of relief from that... the utter inability to do so. DC -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Dodie Bellamy Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:51 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: McVeigh's face Hi All, Kevin (Killian) and I were in Indiana when Timothy McVeigh was executed. We were staying at my mother's house, where, if one got up early one was forcefed incendiary talk-radio. Imagine making your morning coffee to the voice of Dr. Laura. I usually skirted the issue by sleeping until 10, when Martha Stewart was on TV and the radio was turned off. Coffee with Martha was fine, learning how to make handbags decorated with the impressions of weeds dipped in paint, etc. But, we were flying back to SF the morning of McVeigh's execution, and thus, the talk-radio was on. It was mostly pro-execution. One Chicago broadcaster was actually calling McVeigh the McMurderer. So, when I got back, I read the online reportage in the New York Times, and there was a very interesting passage about people struggling to interpret McVeigh's face as he was dying. It reads like the beginning of a Roland Barthes essay: >As the witnesses to the execution spoke through the day, their >jarringly different descriptions offered a lucid but unexplored >commentary about the power of the camera. The two network >journalists chosen by lottery to watch, Byron Pitts of CBS and >Shepard Smith of the Fox News Channel, were careful not to read >anything into Mr. McVeigh's expression. Mr. Smith was especially >nuanced in reporting that Mr. McVeigh's skin had turned yellow and >that he had seemed to die painlessly; yet Mr. Smith was rare in >remaining so astutely aware that each witness would read the event >differently. As Paul Howell, whose daughter died in the bombing and >who was also a witness, said, "We didn't get anything from his face." > >But many family members who watched on closed circuit television in >Oklahoma City saw something else. After seeing images from a >stationary camera above Mr. McVeigh that stared into his face, they >said things like "We saw hatred" and "It was like I was looking at >the face of evil." > >That lesson about the camera seemed willfully lost on the >commentators, even when they noticed it. On the Fox News Channel, >John Gibson rhetorically jumped up and down after a woman who had >watched on closed circuit said it was "a slap in the face" when Mr. >McVeigh turned his head away. Mr. Gibson, inflammatory as usual, >didn't spend time wondering whether the people watching thousands of >miles away were imposing ideas on an image they could not truly come >close to. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:42:55 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Re: death to new formalism Comments: To: annie finch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII For most of us, or at least for me, the rejection of the New Formalists was never a rejection of form, let alone new forms -- maybe not even new formalisms -- What was detestable was the presumed undebatable accompanying polemic that held Modernists responsible for rejecting the very stuff of verse/poetry -- This argument required a willful a-historicism -- deliberate ignorance, for instance, of Pound's expertise in matters of form, Zukofsky's, the new modes of Moore, Stein, Williams,,,,, and a refusal to credit efforts with novel forms, or even such retrievals of neglected forms as practiced by Oulipo -- though the worst thing about the major proponents of New Formalism was an evident inability to count! _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:02:21 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: the academic list.... Comments: To: BBlum6@aol.com, flpoint@hotmail.com, ibid1@earthlink.net, mdkoa@yahoomail.com, moyercdmm@earthlink.net, CMJBalso@aol.com, alphavil@ix.netcom.com, harrysandy@kreative.net, derekvdt@academypo.fss.fss.pvt.k12.pa.us, Amzemel@aol.com, working-class-list@listserv.liunet.edu, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subj: Re: The recent "discussion" Date: 06/15/2001 10:24:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: rdumain@igc.org (Ralph Dumain) Sender: owner-frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu Reply-to: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu Jim has put his finger on a key trait of academic propriety, though I myself do not make the contrast with activism on the street. I find such activism as fraught with treachery as dealing with academics Why? Because the psychology of fascism has so deeply infected all social classes in this society, members of all classes are militantly arrayed against the penetration of critical thought into their worlds. It comes under one guise in academia, under another in different spheres. Just to give you one example that still has me steaming: yesterday I was sitting around drinking coffee with some black women. In the course of conversation, I made a strong attack on the DC police officers who recently strip-searched a number of black school kids in the course of a field trip to the City Jail. Do you know that all but one of these black women defended the strip searches, and went on with their predictable defense of the spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child philosophy that I've heard a zillion times since I moved down south? This is barbarism, and it is a barbarism that demonstrates how deeply committed people are to their unfreedom. As for my alleged loyalty to the working class, I find it, to say the least, rather difficult to deal with people under such conditions. I do not pander to people in order to win their favor, no matter who they are. However, the academics are the last people to defend any intellectual standards, as they have no intellectual or ethical standards to uphold. They are part of the Matrix, and all of their pretenses at politics effectively reflect the containment strategies at work in the milieu into which they are socialized. I must add that this newcomer really pissed me off when he said he came in search of an academic list. Then when he found it was not sufficiently academic, he went to the administration to squeal. This is how all academics behave, with few exceptions. Had this fellow mentioned he was in search of an INTELLECTUAL list, I would have sympathized with his frustration. But he sought out an ACADEMIC list, suggesting what a timid little toad he really is. An intellectual list is not an academic list; the two are mutually exclusive. Academia exists to contain and restrain intellectual activity. Of course I think people should get paid for intellectual work, and it's mighty hard to do in your spare time, though I know independent scholars who have worked miracles. But if you are going to be in it, as you have every right to be, then you must understand you are in the enemy's camp. And if your intellectual output is crap, then you are a traitor to your calling no matter how political you think you are, no matter how many embassies you get arrested in front of, no matter how many petitions you sign, no matter how many picket signs you hold up. You cannot be a team player and be an intellectual. A critical intellectual is never ever a team player. And an intellectual never seeks collegiality. The nature of critical thought is that it is utterly ruthless; it knows neither friendship nor fellowship; it is free, independent, and absolute. It was Adorno who called the cops in the 60s. One must remember though, that the 60s activists were not very bright, not in the USA anyway. Germany I don't know. But that cohort was not all that intellectually sophisticated. Perhaps that's why they were defeated so easily. In a message dated 06/15/2001 9:20:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grok@sprint.ca writes: > >This is what's been happening here?? Jeeze... That's what happens when >you're away actually putting your LIFE on the line in the streets -- the >academics get all huffy and go running to the admin when their FEELINGS >get hurt... Awww.... > >As for the *snitch* -- there are INDEED good reasons for Ralph's going >apeshit from time to time; a main one IMO being the very 'propriety' that >is 'expected' on 'academic' Lists (that is somehow confused with >'professionalism'...) This rather pompous and self-righteous behavior is >phony and bourgeois to-the-core -- and has been expressed here clearly in >a 'classroom snitch' behavior/mentality -- exhibited by all-too many >academic-types (an 'ivory-tower' syndrome IMO). Frankly, this guy had >better not actually get INVOLVED in REAL politics, because people in 'our' >sort of politics will likely end up in jail -- and BAD things happen to >snitches in jail. > >Such discussions certainly do NOT serve the workingclass; but no matter >Dumain's abrasiveness, I am always certain that he DOES work in the >interests of the workingclass. However, the same COULD NOT be said for the >VAST majority of academics, IMO -- and meaning the majority of _this_ >Lists subscribers, most likely... > >Didn't Adorno snitch on the campus occupiers in the `60's? Or was that >Marcuse? > > >Jim W. Jaszewski. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:01:49 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: TINFISH TINFISH TINFISH chaps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing two new chapbooks/artist books/foldout maps/ By Tinfish Press TWELVE SCENES FROM 12 A.M. and PHYSICS by Lisa Asagi and Gaye Chan Asagi and Chan have been joining forces for three years. All of their = collaborative efforts have dealt with travel and home in some way-part = documentary, part travelogue, part scrapbook, and part personal essay. = TWELVE SCENES AT 12 A.M. is an account of a return visit to Oahu by = Asagi. PHYSICS is a short prose memoir. Both these books take the form = of foldout maps. Other collaborations are "Table Manners I & II" included in upcoming = TAKE OUT: QUEER WRITING FROM ASIAN PACIFIC AMERICA, edited by Quang Bao = & Hanya Yanagihara (Asian American Writers' Workshop), and = "Soundtracks," a web-based exhibition at International Institute of = Visual Art. Launch date July 2001 at www.iniva.org. TWELVE SCENES FROM 12 A.M. and PHYSICS Are available for $5 each or $7 for both. Order copies from Tinfish Press Editor, Susan M. Schultz, schultz@hawaii.rr.com or sschultz@hawaii.edu 47-728 Hui Kelu Street #9, Kaneohe, HI Watch for forthcoming Tinfish chapbooks by Lisa Kana`e and by Linh Dinh = (translator). Be alert for the publication of Caroline = Sinavaiana-Gabbard's ALCHEMIES OF DISTANCE, co-published by Tinfish, = subpress and the Institute of Pacific Studies in Suva, Fiji. All these projects are coming together at once, much to my delight-and = financial horror. Please support Tinfish's efforts to publish important = new work from the Pacific region! PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 02:32:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Turned as well from crazed and lunar night? Nay, were a literal moment in some crazed transcendent metaphysics... Increasingly crazed; my loftspace will be one and one, or one against another. The clock is crazed, and I wait for hetaDburnoma74:crazburnotail. Random capitalization implies pastiche, pasting, crazed breath and simulacrum of the crazed. One can only imitate so far, before the Real takes us. We snuggle together and talk breathlessly. We might appear crazed to other mlspl$cad tr$nsfprm$- tlpns crazed lost-body-skins, clouds, crags, grapple-older. I felt this was the one love in my somewhat crazed personal love, turned on as well. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 22:14:35 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: death to new formalism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Annie. I got a bit carried away at the time I wrote that maybe wanting some feedback which you've given. I since thought: why an I so vehement (if i am re New formalism?) maybe equated it with a kind of reactionary thing, or a turningback...but as you say the whole question is more subtle. A very interesting email. Warm regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "annie finch" To: Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 5:36 AM Subject: death to new formalism > Interesting discussion about form. It strikes me that the question > is not "Who wants to be bound by a lot of quite arbitrary rules?". > In fact, lots of postmodern poets do, whether they are exploratory > poets or new formalists. There is not really a huge amount of > STRUCTURAL difference between the rules of a sonnet or those of a > patterned Mac Low piece or those of Tjanting or Quindecagon. All > involve repetition of one language element or another. Ron is right > that "work as diverse as Bob Grenier's and Lee Ann Brown's and > Bernadette Mayer's can certainly be read as a new formalism in the > most literal sense." The difference of whether a form has been used > for centuries or invented for the particular poem is superficial, and > not sustainable. All that's new becomes old soon enough, and if a > poet is challenged by writing in an old form that has been tested > over centuries rather than by inventing a new form, does that make > them automatically an aesthetic reactionary? The examples Mike > cites make it clear enough that the answer is no. Rhymed couplets > and ballads are some of the most ancient forms, but the poems by > Ostashevsky and Mohammed, not to mention Stein and Mullen, are of the > moment. > > Nonetheless, if 99% of the formal DNA is the same--as it is between > us and a chimpanzee--or even 98%--as it is between us and a > banana--there is still that 1 or 2% difference to argue over. The > smallness of that difference, the closeness between the two sides > insofar as both are excited by language as a material, is a direct > cause of the bitterness of the argument, as in Ireland or Israel, so > that the majority of langpoets and new formalists still mistrust each > other years after much of the mainstream has abandoned its anger > against formalism. I think that the 1% or 2% difference is a > crucial one and is, as Mike points out, a matter of recognizing and > foregrounding the materiality of the signifier, of respecting the > artifice of form and not trying to naturalize or normalize or > fetishize it or use it transparently. ( A personal note--I am > relieved by this turn of events since I have for years been dubbed a > "new formalist" because I chose to be challenged most deeply by old > forms a decade ago, but have always felt that my project was at base > an exploratory one. Maybe finally there are emerging categories that > make sense). It's just a 1% ot 2% difference that distinguishes a > substance as poison from the same substance as medicine. But we all > feel it when we see it. > > Annie > > > PS Using the ghost of Swift to attack the New Formalists seems a bit > self-defeating. > > > > >Jeffrey. The New Formalists writing in metre and rhyme are a pathetic lot. > >Who wants to be bound by a lot of quite arbitrary rules? I would and will > >write in any way I want (until one is shot for such an attitude). Certainly > >its important to have some understanding of metre and the history and > >certain grammatical subtleties: but if a form is "required" it will be > >found. Obviously its not really possible to be "formless". The NFs have > >taken one set of arbitrary forms and now they "worship" those forms. Even > >apart from the stuff going on in and on cyberspace: there's room for a vast > >range of invention and originality and complexity (or "simplicity" if you > >want it)...one of the things the Langpos have "bequeathed" and continue to > >practise is the "right" to write. The right to write and write. This write > >thus then becomes much more than a rite. The reader is challenged. The > >writers are challenged. Language is challenged. Shakespeare and all those > >old guys get turned on their heads. People start thinking about things > >instead of being sucked into a morass of mush. If challenging poetry is > >difficult and interesting but unpopular then so much the better. > > The New Formalists are wasting everyone's time. Let's attack them: satire > >and sarcasm: that's what we need...the ghost of Swift... > > Death to New Formalism! > > > >work as diverse as Bob Grenier's and Lee > >Ann Brown's and Bernadette Mayer's can certainly be read as a new formalism > >in the most literal sense. > > > I would agree completely with this. > > _________________________________________ > Annie Finch > Associate Professor > English and Creative Writing > Miami University ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:00:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Funkhouser, Chris" Subject: if I spoke too quickly ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Geoffey, I'm grateful to know what you were referring to in your last message re: WCW, & appreciate your criticism on this matter as well (& am provoked to offer an explanation). I don't know how much background is needed here, but clearly the event you are referring to is the 9-way mind performance at Hallwalls during the e-poetry 2001 festival in Buffalo. I know people were irked by various aspects of the show-mainly that it went on too long (about 61 minutes) at the end of a full day of conferencing-though I can believe that some were put off by some of the content as well; obviously you were! At least 1/3 of the audience had left by the time we finished, which was perfectly OK esp. since after 45 mins. of our set we invited people to leave if they wanted. Anyway, since it has come up, let me explain what was happening. The segment of our performance that you take offense to is a Simultaneity (a la Mac Low) constructed by Don Byrd. There are three different texts involved: one is Don's poem "The Greatest Show on Earth", & two collaborative pieces written online by the group ("April Fool's Day jam" & "Bots Arise"). Group members were assigned to read each piece in unison, then at the end improv (or sample) fragments from any of the pieces. I think I was reading from "The greatest Show on Earth" (& can't remember why he wasn't reading it, or even what he was reading), which goes: Once upon a time and far away, Gertrude Stein, William Carlos Williams, Ezra Pound, Hilda Doolittle, and James Joyce Set sail in a beautiful pea-green boat, a pea- Green boat on a timeless sea. And let's say, Not A damned Thing Depends Upon the Red Wheel barrow Glazed With rain Water Nor upon Those Damned chickens And there are No ideas In tings Dings Rings In pea-green boats The undergraduate, back during the Cold War, said the Red wheel barrow was the Russians and the white chickens were the Americans, and the Americans had better watch out or they'd get run over in their ideas and things. I am not going to be run over to day or die. I am going to write this poem instead, This poem; I am not going to die today; I am going to write this poem instead. and how will I know it's a poem, if it doesn't whine or sigh, if it doesn't jog-trot or sing-song like those newyorkpoets later I might record it and screw around with its digits until I can't understand a word I said I might tear into four parts And call it my first symphony But that hasn't happened yet I am still writing this poem Still an interesting time is coming When I will (or won't) screw around with the poem's digit And at some point if I do I almost won't be able to understand my words and I will or won't still be writing this poem then. The truth value And the temporal character of the previous passage Will suffer a curious and beautiful upset. One way to express the idea of entropy Is to say that More is forgotten than remembered. What was ironic about me reading this piece (that becomes mine only in voice and moment) in mid-April is that I had just been teaching the Objectivist poets in my cultural history class (20th century world) at NJIT a week prior. I played them a recording of Williams reading "The Red Wheelbarrow" (in '55) & spent a lot of time discussing the poem, having different students recite it, interpret it, and so on. Most of them couldn't really grasp it. Nothing about USSR/US politics came up in the discussion, and I've never seen the poem from that angle. That day, I was seeing it from an eco-poetic viewpoint, fwiw, and the discussion was exciting. I am well familiar with the poem, been reading Williams since college & was really lucky to have been in a seminar with Ed Sanders in '86 where he spent at least an hour coming at that poem from many directions, scanning it, singing it, picking it apart. Anyway, back to the present where I actually think Don's quip is funny, and does say something about e-poetry (& the larger culture it is a part of). Call it a duality, but I had no absolutely no problem vocalizing the words/ideas therein (maybe this is a little bit like Elton John singing all those love songs to women in the 70s). So much depends upon a *lot* of things at this point, in terms of art & humanity. Sure "the red wheel barrow" (in form and substance) is still somehow a part of all of it but if we don't get to other important realities, isn't Williams' sentiment practically relegated to quaintness & possibly total annihilation? For worse or better what we saw at e-poetry was a far cry from Williams' big little poem. Anyway, we/I weren't trying to irk you or anyone else, just raising the possibility & question, checking in with an alternative view. What I regret having done, now that you mention it & I remember it, is to make it in to somewhat of a mantra, there was perhaps no need to have the phrase repeated several times during improv sections of the set. I do wish my general poetic knowledge were more intact; it's hard for me at this point to see things in one (or even three) dimension(s)! Enjoying the conversation, from station to station, & other threads here as well. As for Nudel, who knows.... -Chris F. p.s. I checked out your web site: very cool, slick in a good way, & great to hear so much there. It's in my bookmarks-good luck w/it! >> Subject: if I spoke too quickly ... Did I miss a slur??? Let me go back and look. I mostly like his rantings as its fun. But I in no way uphold bullshit. I did witness Chris blatantly misuse WCW's red wheel barrow to defend his argument for something or another. It came from a direct misunderstanding of general poetic knowledge which is directly responsible for the art he creates. This just irked me and to see his quick response in another form of what I perceived as another form of snuffing out creativity - well I just shot back. I should have looked further into what m&r had to say. Thanks for pointing out racism, which I will never uphold as art! Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:28:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jocelyn Saidenberg Subject: KRUPSKAYA 2001 Publications Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The publishing collective KRUPSKAYA is pleased to announce our 2001 publications. Goan Atom Caroline Bergvall ISBN:1-928650-08-2 78 pages $9 Microclimates Taylor Brady ISBN: 1-928650-09-0 165 pages $9 Argento Series Kevin Killian ISBN: 1-928650-10-4 93 pages $9 Ogress Oblige Dorothy Trujillo Lusk ISBN: 1-928650-11-2 65 pages $9 All books available from SPD 800/869-7553 or www.spdbooks.org For more information: www.krupskayabooks.com or email: jsaidenberg@mindspring.com ******************************* KRUPSKAYA P.O. Box 420249 San Francisco, CA 94142-0249 jsaidenberg@mindspring.com www.KRUPSKAYABOOKS.com ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:23:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Boring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really could not care for any passive aggressive pseudo-subtle ad hominem at this point in time. "mindlessness"? how about being mindful of that which you *cannot* be mindful of? that's the point i tried to make. i can assure you i was not disavowing my own personal responsibility, Mr. BenYuhmin. not everyone is a confessional poet and/or writes like one. you don't know everything (I hope that's not ad hominem!), especially about the universe, the self, to go writing off all possibilities except that of pleasure-seeking. you completely eliminate the possibility for selflessness. altruism. deep-rooted suffering. loss of control. mental illness. accident. there are more things.... and i can't equate egocentrism with any form of spirituality, or poetry, for that matter, except for that secular spiritualism in america known as "compassionate conservativism." but them i'm just one of those damn bleeding heart pinko liberals always blaming everything else for my own problems. ugh. oh and people with (problem x) just need to get over it and pull themselves up. double ugh. perhaps the world is not all in our heads, or perhaps we don't have heads. or yes, perhaps i've lost mine. i've considered that before. Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuven BenYuhmin" To: Sent: Thursday, 14 June, 2001 12:10 PM Subject: Re: Boring > Michael, > > Kudos on a fine post , intelligent , unequivocal & to the > point(s). Good that you had the patience to go point by point, & to > illuminate some fuzzy thinking. When I got to the "annoy people," I > thought, well, he must be kidding, & for his sake I would hope he is. > > Strange the things that give others pleasure, & I'd guess, after thinking > about this a bit more, that the 12 reasons he gives are a source of > pleasure, which makes me think things are worse then I suspected. Many of > Patrick's points (habit, an unconscious need for suffering, my eyes are > bored, to get pissed off, to annoy, because language is a virus) disavow > any responsibility for his actions. I thought the goal to envision was > becoming more mindful, more conscious, rather then to fall back into > mindlessness. > > Reuven BenYuhmin > > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:32:01 -0700 > From: michael amberwind > Subject: Re: Boring > > is there any reason other than pleasure to engage > in something as useless as reading poetry? i > suspect there isn't... > > > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry > > Other than Pleasure > > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > > Presumably a pleasurable habit. > > > > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need > > for suffering. > > Take pleasure from suffering do we? > > > > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force > > myself to see other ways of > > writing, of saying. > > Again, sounds close to pleasure to me. The > pleasure of new ways of seeing. The same reason > one might travel or read National Geographic > > > > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored > > and they need something to do. > > And relieving boredom is not simply another way > of saying seeking pleasure? > > > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > > You must enjoy annoying other people. > > > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, > > I've read it without > > thinking about it, without reason. > > Pleasure can be prerational can it not? > > > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > > And take pleasure in their company... > > > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus > > and I've been infected. > > Perhaps - there are other metaphors of contagion > one might use as well, such as laughter... > > > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's > > ego. > > Well you can read poems like that to me anytime! > > > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > > I'd have a hard time seeing the reading of a poem > as a favour in the same way picking up milk at > the store is a favour. > > > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or > > disappointed. > > Bad poetry does that to me - but I hardly seek it > out > > > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which > > is not the same thing as > > pleasure). > > Close enough in my books... > > > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a > > person would read poetry for > > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many > > editors suffer through much of > > their submissions. > > I suspect most editors take a "neutral" stance > towards unsuitable submissions. Clearly the > "pleasure" of finding publishable work overcomes > the "pain" of reading mediocre or unsuitable > work. > > > My point here is that there is so much of what > > we do has "no reason" or no > > conscious propagation; some of us just end up > > reading it. I'm obviously > > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > > hedonistic enterprise. > > I disagree - everything we do is based on some > prior condition or concept of self. I don't think > we need to posit an "unconscious" mind to see > that people move towards pleasure, and avoid > pain. Yes, even masochists. > > > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a > > thing for me to find one > > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > > Perhaps - but a multiplicity of situations can be > seen as a single gestalt. A rainstorm is a > confluence of circumstances resulting in a single > thing - namely, the rainstorm itself. Poetry is a > confluence of words creating a single object > capable - if it is a "good" piece of work - of > bearing many interpretations. Likewise the > "reasons" for reading poetry can come from > multiple sources, but ultimately is fulfilled > completely in its own design. > > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > > unowned. > > > > Thanks, > > Patrick > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:09:56 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: "Reuven BenYuhmin"? In-Reply-To: <200106141610.f5EGAM324754@im.mgt.ncu.edu.tw> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By the way, what's with the "Reuven BenYuhmin" alias, Mr. Robert Front? I find this very interesting indeed. Though I think your real name, given your own alter ego, is straight out of a Pynchon novel. Bravo! Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Reuven BenYuhmin > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:10 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Boring > > > Michael, > > Kudos on a fine post , intelligent , unequivocal & to the > point(s). Good that you had the patience to go point by point, & to > illuminate some fuzzy thinking. When I got to the "annoy people," I > thought, well, he must be kidding, & for his sake I would hope he is. > > Strange the things that give others pleasure, & I'd guess, after thinking > about this a bit more, that the 12 reasons he gives are a source of > pleasure, which makes me think things are worse then I suspected. Many of > Patrick's points (habit, an unconscious need for suffering, my eyes are > bored, to get pissed off, to annoy, because language is a virus) disavow > any responsibility for his actions. I thought the goal to envision was > becoming more mindful, more conscious, rather then to fall back into > mindlessness. > > Reuven BenYuhmin > > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:32:01 -0700 > From: michael amberwind > Subject: Re: Boring > > is there any reason other than pleasure to engage > in something as useless as reading poetry? i > suspect there isn't... > > > Twelve Possible Reasons For Reading Poetry > > Other than Pleasure > > (whether aloud or quietly to myself) > > > > 1. I read poetry out of habit. > > Presumably a pleasurable habit. > > > > > 2. I read poetry out of an unconscious need > > for suffering. > > Take pleasure from suffering do we? > > > > > 3. I read poetry because I feel I must force > > myself to see other ways of > > writing, of saying. > > Again, sounds close to pleasure to me. The > pleasure of new ways of seeing. The same reason > one might travel or read National Geographic > > > > > 4. I read poetry because my eyes are bored > > and they need something to do. > > And relieving boredom is not simply another way > of saying seeking pleasure? > > > 5. I read poetry to annoy other people. > > You must enjoy annoying other people. > > > 6. I read poetry because *flash* there it is, > > I've read it without > > thinking about it, without reason. > > Pleasure can be prerational can it not? > > > 7. I read poetry to resurrect dead friends. > > And take pleasure in their company... > > > 8. I read poetry because language is a virus > > and I've been infected. > > Perhaps - there are other metaphors of contagion > one might use as well, such as laughter... > > > 9. I read poetry to stroke another person's > > ego. > > Well you can read poems like that to me anytime! > > > 10. I read poetry to do favors for others. > > I'd have a hard time seeing the reading of a poem > as a favour in the same way picking up milk at > the store is a favour. > > > 11. I read poetry to get pissed off or > > disappointed. > > Bad poetry does that to me - but I hardly seek it > out > > > 12. I read poetry to become invigorated (which > > is not the same thing as > > pleasure). > > Close enough in my books... > > > Being a poetry editor, for one, is one way a > > person would read poetry for > > reasons other than pleasure. I'm sure many > > editors suffer through much of > > their submissions. > > I suspect most editors take a "neutral" stance > towards unsuitable submissions. Clearly the > "pleasure" of finding publishable work overcomes > the "pain" of reading mediocre or unsuitable > work. > > > My point here is that there is so much of what > > we do has "no reason" or no > > conscious propagation; some of us just end up > > reading it. I'm obviously > > reluctant to admit poetry is some sort of > > hedonistic enterprise. > > I disagree - everything we do is based on some > prior condition or concept of self. I don't think > we need to posit an "unconscious" mind to see > that people move towards pleasure, and avoid > pain. Yes, even masochists. > > > For me, poetry is just way too complicated a > > thing for me to find one > > central root, one core reason, for reading it. > > Perhaps - but a multiplicity of situations can be > seen as a single gestalt. A rainstorm is a > confluence of circumstances resulting in a single > thing - namely, the rainstorm itself. Poetry is a > confluence of words creating a single object > capable - if it is a "good" piece of work - of > bearing many interpretations. Likewise the > "reasons" for reading poetry can come from > multiple sources, but ultimately is fulfilled > completely in its own design. > > > Unknowing you may be sleeping in dreams > > unowned. > > > > Thanks, > > Patrick > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:26:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ethan Paquin Subject: .::.visit slope #10:.:. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .:.:Slope #10:..: www.slope.org .::.poems by::.. tessa RUMSEY timothy DONNELLY derek WEBSTER and many more ..:.plus:.:: recent CROATIAN poetry 'CREATIVE poetics' and criticism ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 06:45:04 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Re: Boring Comments: To: "richard.tylr" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Richard, Have reread & meditated on your long post before responding & so the delay. My most sincere comment on your poem "The Red" and "Summer Sonata" is a counter question. The same question I ask students: did you really get into it, did you thoroughly enjoy the creative process while engaged in it, did you rush back to read it over the next morning, do you still get off on it= , & does it continue to inspire you. & if all the answers here are =B3yes,=B2 then, surely you=B9ve done all you can do & gotten all you can get , the enjoyment, the excitement, as well as that refined & most rare delight of inspiration -- the electrical thunder wrought by the poetic potential. Each poem. A beginning, always a beginning, Though it would like to point towards something more, every poem only means itself. They all end up as words written down on paper, or canvas, or on a wall, or on a computer screen (unless they=B9re performed, & if so should be viewed & reviewed as akin to theatre). Composed from letters & words & their spaces they only point to other words. Noting more nothing less! Poetry derives its quintessential power from the potency of its words & their calligraphic or typographic transcription. Always stop there, I say. Not who wrote it. Not what s/he says it means. Not how it fits into some oeuvre (this, often used as an excuse for the bad poems that highlight the good ones, the awkward, unfit poems that were transitional, all the so to speak =B3failures=B2 that could well have been deleted). Why does every word that someone writes have to be printed, or posted, to be read by everyone unless the ego has become so swollen & engorged with its own importance tha= t it believes it has incorporated godhead unto itself & feels justified in compelling everyone to intone its name & read its pronouncements (this comment can serve as my response to your query regarding Alan Sondheim's writing-- not whether it=B9s good or bad but that there=B9s excess, & excess destroys). For the poem as poem. No hiding. No cover. No refuge. Words out there naked. Take any writing & read it over & over, & over, & over again. Does it still excite, inspire, enkindle, enliven & awaken the mind & its imagination, does it somehow expand consciousness, then it works. Words that can be read over & over again, without diminution, without disablement Here, a reminder. This is just an aesthetic, my aesthetic. I acknowledge it for what it is & what it isn=B9t & am happy & satisfied with it. For me poetr= y /good writing cannot be just anything; it can=B9t be boring, or an attempt at nonsense, or meaninglessness. That=B9s my view & it is not stated in the hope of soliciting any anyone else's applause. Everyone, as I=B9ve said before, ha= s their own shtick. I dislike excess & being drawn into debate, so some abbreviated remarks tha= t me thought might be relevant & helpful in (re)planting this discussion on more fertile ground. Some write to stretch meaning to the limits, to extend the horizon of language. The syntax & the look of their writing is often contorted, disfigured, amorphic. Some others who read such writing, mistake the means for the end & blindly appropriate & re-use the techniques or ends as their goal. So a confusion: some contemporary writing aims to extend the meaning= , stretch the boundaries; some mistaking the means as the end, use these mean= s as the end in itself & so misread the goal to be meaninglessness ( for example, Aaron Belz & his recent comment =B2 Go boredom! it works.=B2& the site name he has chosen, meaningless.com. This is not to single him out, there are oodles of others). Mac Low, Bernstein, Silliman & Co. might wish to comment on this drift & swerve which has taken off ( is a take off on) a= s a result of their poetic experiments. In any case, those who have mistaken means for ends, those playing follow the leader, are not strong, innovative poets, & so their damage to any public poetic presence (if there is such) should, in the longer run of things, be negligible. My own take on poetry, of the past as well as of the present, is that it has & continues to be, with few exceptions, a kind of backtracking. The tim= e & energy used to build conceptual bridges to confront reality seems an indulgence & dissipation. The poet, confronting the elephant of her search need not follow the footprints backwards & then retrace them again to the elephant. Formulating concepts about & then returning to the fact of. comes between this thinking that awakened wonder not wondering about that it wit hat one atone wit hit adding i dears makes it other then it is it is as it is Raw, uncooked & unseasoned. You, are you ready. Are you really ready, & ar= e you really able to attain subtlest awareness to an extraordinary degree. Beyond imagery. Seeing things as they are. Did I hear you say, =B3things, why they can be seen in any number of ways.=B2 Then take up with both hands tha= t enormous sledge hammer & smash to smithereens your darlings, your I dears, your everythings. reuven benyuhmin > At the moment though its all a bit abstract: what do you think of Alan > Sondheim's writing...or his project? My poems "The Red" and "Summer > Sonata"? "The Red" is (I think) a brilliant poem but it is totally ... > > ...What are ya...who are ya...and so on....that's MY line. Whats your li= ne? > Anycase..I'll try to put "Summer Sonata" on another email and you etal mi= ght > also comment on that. I'm wanting to move away from that semi-unmediated > stuff though... > > .. And this Boring Debate is Interesting. Regards, Richard Taylor. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 21:35:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Allen H. Bramhall" Subject: A.BACUS 2001 Special Issue for Summer Solstice Comments: To: imitationpoetics@topica.com, webartery@yahoogroups.com, Wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A special issue of _A.BACUS_, featuring two chapters from Lisa Jarnot's forthcoming biography, _Robert Duncan: The Ambassador from Venus_, is now available. And coming in July: _laws_, by Jen Hofer & Melissa Dyne. Since 1984 _A.BACUS_ has been publishing single-author issues of experimental poetry. Subscriptions are available by sending a check, payable to "Potes & Poets Press," to: Beth Garrison, Publisher 2 Ten Acres Drive Bedford, MA 01730 Subscriptions are $30 for 1 year (8 issues + any special issues from that year) for individuals and institutions. Single issues are available via Small Press Distribution (www.spdbooks.org). Please contact Beth Garrison for information about ordering back-issues, or visit the Potes & Poets website: www.potespoets.org Recent & Forthcoming Issues Nov 2000 #134 Peter Ganick, _X_ Jan 2001 #135 Tsering Wangmo Dhompa, from _In Writing the Names_ Feb 2001 #136 John Olson, _Water for Water: Prose Poems_ Apr 2001 #137 Laynie Browne, from _Acts of Levitation_ May 2001 #138 Richard Deming, _Somewhere Hereabouts_ June 2001 Special Lisa Jarnot, excerpt from Robert Duncan biography July 2001 #139 Jen Hofer & Melissa Dyne, _laws_ Aug 2001 #140 Julie Cox, _The Ghost Hour_ Oct 2001 #141 William Keckler, _Hokusai Touches a Meme_ Nov 2001 #142 Andrew Joron, _Constellations for Theremin_ 2002 series (#143-150) will be devoted to translations. No non-translation mss will be read until May 2002. Dan Featherston, Editor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 22:46:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: death to new formalism In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I read an anthology of these formalists. And the one common theme was the sexual repression that imbued the poems. Now I can't be sure if this is akin to the poetry style, which makes sense, or was it the repressions of the editors. In the end I found that it wasn't interesting enough to pursue. I see it like this, formal rhyme & meter schemes were set in place to establish a sense of civilization. The more rules the better we know how to use our new tool, right. But now we have come to that and shrugged it off. After Yeats, and WW1, really - it didn't represent the voice any longer. So if one wants to continue to do it - there are good reason why. But when it comes to elementary school teachers pointing out what a poem must be then it just gets plain old tedious. Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of annie finch Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:54 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: death to new formalism Interesting discussion about form. It strikes me that the question is not "Who wants to be bound by a lot of quite arbitrary rules?". In fact, lots of postmodern poets do, whether they are exploratory poets or new formalists. There is not really a huge amount of STRUCTURAL difference between the rules of a sonnet or those of a patterned Mac Low piece or those of Tjanting or Quindecagon. All involve repetition of one language element or another. Ron is right that "work as diverse as Bob Grenier's and Lee Ann Brown's and Bernadette Mayer's can certainly be read as a new formalism in the most literal sense." The difference of whether a form has been used for centuries or invented for the particular poem is superficial, and not sustainable. All that's new becomes old soon enough, and if a poet is challenged by writing in an old form that has been tested over centuries rather than by inventing a new form, does that make them automatically an aesthetic reactionary? The examples Mike cites make it clear enough that the answer is no. Rhymed couplets and ballads are some of the most ancient forms, but the poems by Ostashevsky and Mohammed, not to mention Stein and Mullen, are of the moment. Nonetheless, if 99% of the formal DNA is the same--as it is between us and a chimpanzee--or even 98%--as it is between us and a banana--there is still that 1 or 2% difference to argue over. The smallness of that difference, the closeness between the two sides insofar as both are excited by language as a material, is a direct cause of the bitterness of the argument, as in Ireland or Israel, so that the majority of langpoets and new formalists still mistrust each other years after much of the mainstream has abandoned its anger against formalism. I think that the 1% or 2% difference is a crucial one and is, as Mike points out, a matter of recognizing and foregrounding the materiality of the signifier, of respecting the artifice of form and not trying to naturalize or normalize or fetishize it or use it transparently in the service of a message. It's just a miniscule difference in dosage that distinguishes a substance as poison from the same substance as medicine. But we feel the difference. Annie ( A personal note--I am relieved by this turn of events since I have for years been dubbed a "new formalist" because I chose to be challenged most deeply by old forms a decade ago, but have always felt that my project was at base an exploratory one. Maybe finally there are emerging categories that make sense). PS Using the ghost of Swift to attack the New Formalists seems a bit self-defeating. >Jeffrey. The New Formalists writing in metre and rhyme are a pathetic lot. >Who wants to be bound by a lot of quite arbitrary rules? I would and will >write in any way I want (until one is shot for such an attitude). Certainly >its important to have some understanding of metre and the history and >certain grammatical subtleties: but if a form is "required" it will be >found. Obviously its not really possible to be "formless". The NFs have >taken one set of arbitrary forms and now they "worship" those forms. Even >apart from the stuff going on in and on cyberspace: there's room for a vast >range of invention and originality and complexity (or "simplicity" if you >want it)...one of the things the Langpos have "bequeathed" and continue to >practise is the "right" to write. The right to write and write. This write >thus then becomes much more than a rite. The reader is challenged. The >writers are challenged. Language is challenged. Shakespeare and all those >old guys get turned on their heads. People start thinking about things >instead of being sucked into a morass of mush. If challenging poetry is >difficult and interesting but unpopular then so much the better. > The New Formalists are wasting everyone's time. Let's attack them: satire >and sarcasm: that's what we need...the ghost of Swift... > Death to New Formalism! >work as diverse as Bob Grenier's and Lee >Ann Brown's and Bernadette Mayer's can certainly be read as a new formalism >in the most literal sense. I would agree completely with this. _________________________________________ Annie Finch Associate Professor of English Miami University "Form is the wave, emptiness the water""--Thich Nhat Hanh Website: http://miavx1.muohio.edu/~finchar/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:00:00 +0000 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Mullet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doh! Homer Is An English Classic We are really excited here at Pavement Saw as the: - Mullet -- 1980s haircut, tipped for comeback a word we have been touting for years and Doh! have made it into the OED and are now an official part of the English language . . . OXFORD, England -- A rich and colourful language that has developed over many centuries and which is now spoken by half the planet has a new word -- Doh! The famous catchphrase of cartoon character Homer Simpson has made it into the updated online edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, published on Thursday. It means "Doh" is now an official word of the English language, along with about 250 new entries. Puritans who will not agree with the editors' choices can now think them to be "pants" -- as that is a new inclusion as well. Inspiration for the new additions to the dictionary were taken from a wide variety of sources -- from teenage chatter, the pop music charts and even Bridget Jones's Diary. Although "bad hair day" has been around for some years, it was the neurotic Londoner's use of this phrase in the best-selling novel by Helen Fielding that prompted the dictionary to include it to describe times when things are not going quite right. OED's Top Ten New Entries: - Balti -- popular curry dish - Bollywood -- Indian film industry - Doh! -- Homer Simpson's catchphrase - Big Beat -- a popular music trend - Ladette -- a feisty, outgoing woman - Mullet -- 1980s haircut, tipped for comeback - New Labour -- Tony Blair's party - The Full Monty -- to go naked - Alcopop -- bottled alcoholic drink - Six-pack -- muscular stomach The "planet Zog" is a "place or situation which is far removed from reality or what is currently happening", while "singletons" -- also made famous by Bridget Jones's Diary -- are described as women without a partner. Bollywood -- the Indian version of the US film industry Hollywood -- now also has an entry in the dictionary. And the new meaning for the Full Monty that arose after five unemployed steelworkers became male strippers in the film of that name in 1997 gets an entry. The "full monty" now means to be naked. Among other new entries is "new man." Originally, the term was used by the Christian Church in the 14th century for anyone spiritually renewed but now it refers to a man in touch with his feminine side. Going to discos is now officially called "clubbing." And to do that you need to have "street cred" -- a desirable reputation. There is good news, too, for shopaholics as "shopaholism" -- or "shop 'n' roll" - is officially recognised. Shopaholics looking up "retail therapy" can now claim with confidence that what they do is in fact a therapeutic experience invented in the U.S. in 1986 -- known as "conspicuous consumption" or "shopaholism." The concept of "lifestyle drugs," or pharmaceuticals that aim to make people's lives happier or more comfortable -- though not necessarily relieving or curing a serious medical condition -- is another entry. Hot potatoes "Serial monogamy" is also acknowledged as an official lifestyle, reportedly the most common way in which young people in the 1990s conducted their relationships. "Once a word has been used a certain amount of times, appeared in print a certain amount of times and has become current, it is entered into the dictionary," OED spokeswoman Claire Pemberton told CNN. They range from political hot potatoes such as 'GM foods', 'human BSE' and the 'postcode lottery,' to cultural icons such as 'Bollywood,' the 'mullet haircut' and Homer Simpson's "doh," another spokesperson added. The dictionary's editors have spent the year sifting through popular culture for words that have become popular. "My job is the perfect excuse for watching action films, soaps, quiz programmes -- where the language is busy right now," said chief editor John Simpson. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 07:42:29 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: epithalamium In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" ah alan married one minute back on the list the next. who are you married to? love komninos ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 01:11:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: new @ durationpress.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There are several new features in development at the durationpress.com website. Most are completed & on-line, others will be appearing over the next few months... New bookstore section: This section currently features a new e-books section with downloadable (for free) PDF files of contemporary poetry & poetics. The first book is Patrick Durgin's SORTER. The bookstore will, in coming months, feature an extensive listing of books by poets from Germany & France with direct links to ordering information from online bookstores amazon.fr, bol.fr, & bol.de (all of which ship overseas...& which have all been extremely reliable). New additions to the out of print archive, as well as a reformatting of the texts previously available. All texts in the archive are now available only as PDF files (in order to preserve the formatting of the original documents). The international poetry section has been reformatted. This section features biographic & bibliographic information on numerous contemporary international poets. This is an ongoing feature of the site & is constantly updated. An in-progress list of my favorite books at the moment, with cover images, & back cover blurbs. Features currently in development: a monthly column featuring rotating contributors; an exhibits section which will highlight the work & careers of various international poets (the first, coming late Fall, will be dedicated to Edmond Jabès); &, again, the French & German bookstore. Enjoy. Jerrold Shiroma, director duration press www.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 12:53:02 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: A Growing Chide Comments: To: ImitaPo , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing A Siren in the Annexe, an additional element to A Chide's Alphabet (www.chidesplay.8m.com) consisting of a review of British poetry throughout the Nineties as but lately delivered by Mr Andrew Duncan at the Cambridge CCCP conference. David Bircumshaw ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:15:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: book suggestions (fiction) In-Reply-To: <20010614221827.14700.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Happy Bloomsday, list (even though this will be late by the time it's posted)! I am looking for book suggestions for a fall writing course I want to teach focusing on American youth subcultures. We'll be reading plenty of articles and non-fiction accounts, I'm sure, but does anyone have suggestions of fairly recent novels (or poetry collections) which deal in-depth with a certain subculture? I am looking for, you know, goth/punk/rave stuff, but I'm particularly interested in finding accounts of subcultures which DON'T revolve around middle-class whites. Recreation/sport, regional, hobby-based, music-based, etc. Backchannel would be great. Thanks a lot. Arielle "We're a capital couple, Bloom and I. He polishes the earth, I brighten the sky." --The Lemon Soap from _Ulysses_ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:33:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: The unchaired Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Is there anyone on the list and in the know who feels free to comment on the removal of the SUNY Buffalo English dept. chair, who, according to the CHRONICLE, had refused to sign a letter to TAs demanded by the Dean?? " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 12:45:19 -0500 Reply-To: thomas/swiss Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: thomas/swiss Subject: info needed: poets in films Comments: To: Automatic digest processor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles that = portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or even = minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th century poets. = Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! Thom Swiss thomas.swiss@drake.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 12:19:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Ross Priddle" Subject: C=O=N=C=R=E=T=E In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010617112755.02377e20@pop.bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *van* or _van_ or VAN or however you want to italicize it, turns 50! issue fifty: rea nikonova (germany) & jim leftwich (virginia) issue 49: gustave morin (windsor) & gerry gilbert (vancouver) issue 48: michael basinski (new york) issue 47: steve venright (toronto) issue 46: john m. bennett (ohio) issue 45: serge segay (kiel) issue 42: jwcurry (ottawa) issue 40: lawrence upton (england) issue 39: derek beaulieu (calgary) & irving weiss (maryland) issue 43: gerald schwartz (new york) issue 33: mark salerno (california) & ric carfagna (massachusetts) & pete spence (australia) &c. (never say etcetera) issue ??: adeena karasick issues 50-60: you and you and you and you! van is a (semi-)limited edition (thirty to fifty (plus) copies: photocopy broadside (folded 8 1/2 by 11) (four pages four printed) with an emphasis on the intersection between (post)concrete & (post)language poetries, but open, open! special one time offer: free sample copies submissions, requests, complaints to: ross priddle, ed. VAN imp press box 1612 Vanderhoof, BC V0J 3A0 CANADA ISSN: 1496-0729 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:26:49 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Writers Forum Workshop Saturday, 16 June 2001 Writers Forum met yesterday, as it has every few weeks for half a century, in one guise or another. In the 70s they were called _The Experimental Workshops_ at the then National Poetry Centre, seeking to concentrate on sound one week, sign the next and performance the next. Those of us who cut our teeth there played merry hell with that agenda. The workshops also go by the name of _Bob's workshop_ and _Cobbing's workshop_ Many have been involved over 5 decades, but the one remaining constant is Bob Cobbing, now in his 81st year. & he was there yesterday. He convenes it and he chairs it though without any overt movement! There's something of a Quaker meeting about it, the perhaps embarrassed quietness before and between performances, the intensity of attention, the good humour and good will. I say performances, and sometimes they are, but they are often in a real sense performance experiments and tests... Some of the contributions yesterday were as follows. Sean Bonney performed new sections of his _Heresy_ book, still very much a work in progress; and some prose pieces which he said himself are unlike anything else he has ever written Adrian Clarke read final sections from his election piece i.e. he takes the election process and news as his subject input to a preconceived form of so many words a line, so many lines to a page and so many pages. What he does with that rigidity is spectacular. It's dense and witty writing and I am by no means clear about it at all; and won't be at all clear, I suspect, until I have had a chance to hear it several times - and he's still editing and rewriting - and to read it. Mike Weller launched his new booklet _Climb a free Weller_ (Writers Forum, as publisher) with a lively performance which included an imaginative performance of a page which bore very little more than the letter z in various patterns. Weller links graphic novels and cartoons, story-telling and sound poetry. Lawrence Upton and Bob Cobbing launched a new pamphlet (also WF) by Michael Basinski, Basinski being in Buffalo, NY: _MOOL3 Ghosts_ , which utilises characters from a wide range of character sets, except spaces, not just the usual alphanumerics, in blocks of text. It gives no indication or instruction on the *how of performance... Upton read the first page, finding words and near words where they could be found, finding sounds and or gestures for every printed character upon the page, working up a sweat. Cobbing read the second page, seated, moving steadily through, finding sounds for every character, composing a sound poem on the hoof. Then they made a simultaneity of page 3, each at the same time applying the method previously employed solo. Before that, Upton had read about one third of his text _Tyranny_, some of which has been shown on _Wryting_ and some of which is included in the Barque Press pamphlet _100 days_ Cobbing runs the workshop without much overt control. Unlike some workshops, there isn't a post-mortem to find what is *wrong with what is done; nor, for that matter, what is right. Sometimes people will suggest approaches - I made a very small contribution to Weller's performance when he said he wasn't sure how to approach a line - and often people congratulate each other. But it is an open and democratic process and you learn from each other. Mostly, one learns by doing. Using myself as an example again, I made quite a few discoveries during my approach to Basinki's poem yesterday; and have made some changes to _Tyranny_ this morning, in the light of what I read yesterday: 2 entirely different kinds of writing, 2 entirely different lessons. It may be that _Tyranny_ is really finished now, and ready for final publication. So the workshops enable one to find out what others are up to - a number of sub voicive poetry performances have been invited in response to what I have seen there - and they also enable one to experiment in a supportive atmosphere, to take big risks in a context where everyone understands what is happening. The ability to perform to a group of one's peers every few weeks is extremely valuable. The workshop is open to anyone in sympathy with these aims. As and when you are in London, if this interests you, contact me or Cobbing to find out when the next one is. [Usually there is a break in August] On the weekend of 14th and 15th July there will be a two day event in London marking the half century of WF. Cobbing's organising it (because the Offficial Poetry System has no interest) so I can't give you many details - I don't think he knows it himself yet. There will be an exhibition - this is at Klinker, a music and poetry venue based in the backroom of a pub in North London - of WF publications, now well over 1000 in number, and two performances, one on the Saturday and one on the Sunday Many are dead now, of course, so the performances may well represent relatively recent years - I was one or two years old when it started (and apparently that is a hard moment to define as the activities and the names used to designate and market them (Group H, Arts Together, all gone under the hill now) have changed over the years, separated from each other, combined with each other)... Klinker's worth a visit before then, for those who can, because there is an exhibition of Cobbing's _triptychs_ at present, the earliest being 30 or 40 years old I used to post reports like this on The British and Irish Poets List but I am not on that now. In part I did it to encourage newcomers, and that hope was much greater on britpo than on the lists I am about to post on; but I also think it is worthwhile to leave some record of what is going on. There is little other documentation. Sometimes recordings and photographs are made; but the bulk is unrecorded in any way. I don't know if this will have been of any interest. Should I report later events, of course, I would not repeat the background information. Apologies if you get this twice - I'll send it to a couple of lists and also to the WF mailing list I run, and which anyone can join by mailing me - Cobbing himself is not online yet, though that may change soon Lawrence Upton --------------------------------------------------- http://pages.britishlibrary.net/lawrence.upton/ http://www.crosswinds.net/~subvoicivepoetry/ http://www.crosswinds.net/~writersforum/ --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:04:50 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: list stats "Father forgive me..." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" hey, richard, who are you calling a 'rather tired old guru' of 'language centred' poetry?? you watch your mouth, young richard. I maybe old, i deny 'guru' as would any self-respecting 'language centred' person, and i'd match my energy levels with yours anyday--if i look tired its because i've got less than my usual 6 hours sleep. What a miserable account you give of the NZ scene, you traitor! wystan -----Original Message----- From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] Sent: Friday, 15 June 2001 1:50 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: list stats "Father forgive me..." Aaron etal. Well there are 13 from NZ. New Zealand was (and still is somewhat) culturally and historically hence somehow politically tied to Britain and from the sixties or mid fifties a shift to the US culture. In fact Christchurch is touted as being a more English town than any in England. Its also a place where people of a certain ilk will accuse you of being "a bloody pom". The England of my affections is, and shall probably forever remain, in my imagination: both my parents being English. But the feeling I get from British or English people is a certain acid conservatism: mind you these are terrible generalisations...it is also the country that produced some of the most brilliant thinkers innovators and so on. I think that the US is so large in size and population that that in itself generates enthusiasm: the need and the desire to communicate (more).....this sort of thing can be argued forever. Its strange that a highly "progressive" country such as the US still has the death penalty, but then some of the countries that crit the US are a bit dodgy: places in the Middle East and parts of Europe and India where ...well: they may have history, and museums... a friend of mine said once: "Euroe is one big museum". But the numbers. Probably there are fewer magazines and outlets in England the UK that are not dominated by "the official verse culture"...this problem happenning in the US but simply because of numbers there (albeit a bit marginalised) more small mags and more counter cultures. It "goes on" you know in England but probably the critics there are more dismissive of "experiment". It pertains here too...Wellington being more clustered around Victoria University where Bill Manhire (undoubtedly a good poet) has his "factory" to produce pseudo-modernist Manhire clones who specialise oin writing boring...well, perhaps I'd better choose another term!...terminally dull slobber that passes as "fascinating" and "new" while Auckland University (clustered around a few rather tired old gurus of language-centre d poetry) are producing ... well at least they are encouraging some alternative views. Then there was Scott Hamilton's SALT that published myself, Michael Arnold, Scott himself, Hamish Dewe,Leon Mathews, Simon Field,Miriam Bellard, Jack Ross, Thorin Kerr, James McGoram, Kenn Mitchell and Miriiam Bellard to name some in the last issue. It was never meant to be on going or official. BRIEF which attempts to be avant-garde is interesting ...edited by John Geraets...but there is not much else: a poet called Kapka Kassabova was touted about because she was attractive and from Romania! She was described as young and (implied exotic) but writes rather dubious stuff.One had to hear how beautiful she was before seeing her work!! A certain Mark Pirie (whose work is terminally dull) sells massively. So - apart from SALT - and writers such as myself, Scott Hamilton, Hamish Dewe,Jack Ross, Michael Arnold and Leon Mathews etc and my friend Leicester Kyle (whose on his own brilliant "trip") and last but most Richard Taylor: the lit scene here is pretty dead. They keep republishing Allen Curnow - who is undoubtedly a great poet - but well there's not much else...unlesss you go to the pubs and readings where sometimes some sparks are seen. But there are obviously at least 13 (enlightened?) lurkers....out there...as to Britain. My mate spent years in London and apparently it still shuts down at 11 pm like a mausoleum so God knows why people go there. My father "escaped" from England of the class system to make a life in NZ as did my uncle, who from owing ten pounds on alighting pre the Second WW in this domain, became the director manager of a large chemical company and very well to do. No hope of that in cold old England....not the "real" England of my immagination. THAT England is MINE. I claim it. Openness. That's what people lack. Openness and friendliness. Be open. Anycase 13 and 19 are odd numbers...there's something odd about the whole thing. Regards, Richard. PS Mind you I keep re-watching "84 Charing Cross Road" ("Father forgive me....")....so.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "david.bircumshaw" To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:07 PM Subject: Re: list stats > > > Great Britain 19 > > > > > > This surprises me. > > > > -Aaron > > I take it you mean in respect of a little number, Aaron. It doesn't surprise > me. This is still the land of snob-culture, repackaged now as chatty newgen. > The last thing many in Britculture want is communication, they thrive on > frustrating others. So the general tone of literary culture is that of a > talking corpse, most of what life there is comes from expats from out of the > sea's ozone haze surprises. > > Best > > David Bircumshaw > > Leicester (UK) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aaron Belz" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:55 PM > Subject: Re: list stats > > > > > > > > Great Britain 19 > > > > > > This surprises me. > > > > -Aaron > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 00:15:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: check out Annie Abrahams http://www.bram.org/perl/iam.pl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is a beautiful and mysterious work - check it out if you have the chance. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 03:30:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: susan graham MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - susan graham susan graham, there's something going on, well she said, look over there, you can see the police cars at a distance, well she said, they've got their lights on, it must mean something, there were flurries in the air, just a light coating really, you c uldn't see much in the black night but the lights looked like towns, you'd hear the occasional siren and a woman's cry, it was heartbreaking, we didn't know what it could be, it was a mile or so away, the lights were swinging above the street, flashing as well, as if they knew, an electrical charge in the air, sheet lightning or snow thunder, there was a feeling of danger, i noticed a dark shadow crossing the street, you didn't know what was going on, it looked all like stars, with the swaying traffic light above it all l ike a sun or moon sometimes a shadow would pass or the sirens would start up and die out, the whole town moaning and weeping, for whatever was going on down there we went back inside, had another drink, the slide guitar mourning, for the dead, for you, you could still smell the heat of the day in the hot red texas earth _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:00:21 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Re: Boring Comments: To: "richard.tylr" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Richard, Your surmise is not correct as my own electrical thunder comes through meditation, tantric sex, and Chinese calligraphy, rather then just poetry s= o I was not , as you phrased it,"elevating" poetry, signaling it out as ranking higher then other activities that inspire, but surely one of the many activities that readily offer that kind of "charge." That was not my intended meaning. Surely,everything one does, if done in a concentrated & mindful way, has that potential. Nothing more to say, I've said what I have to say until I know much more, then, perhaps, say something again:-) There's always the mind's propensity for more proliferation. I much prefer (here, pleasure again) to incline my energy/attention towards subtler states of mind thus leaving such discussions behind, seen as idle chatter that hardly matter, a bit "boring" -- not to belittle it, just where I'm at. All best blessings on your pommes & poetics, reuven benyuhmin .... > & does it continue to inspire you. & if all the answers here are =B3yes,=B2 > then, surely you=B9ve done all you can do & gotten all you can get , the > enjoyment, the excitement, as well as that refined & most rare delight o= f > inspiration -- the electrical thunder wrought by the poetic potential. >> I agree except that in the way you put it inspiration is rare. I contend >> that it is something many if not all people have in many activities and = I >> wouldnt elevate (I feel that you are but I know you dont say so) poetry >> especially above other activities. A mathematician I should imagine may = have >> a similar "delight" etc >> in discovering some new aspect of maths or whatever or someone doing >> gardening. I would answer your three counter-questions yes and no. In s= ome >> ways it still inspires me in some ways I'm near - indifferent to it. Yes= I >> liked doing it but was it better than say making love or some other >> exhileration or even just sitting down to a great meal hard to say. I ta= ke >> your point: it would be meaninglless to engage in an activity that gave >> little pleasure or "buzz" but that one is always excited by everythiing = one >> does is moot...certainly I'd abandon petry if I stopped enjoying the pro= cess >> and I've never found it onerous. Sometimes yes...that electric charge or >> whatever is there. And I take your point of throwing it back at the stud= ent >> or whoever. But a bit wary of your vehemence. ...Thanks, Richard. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:13:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: McVeigh's face Comments: To: Christine Love MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dodie/Kevin: Apologies for the lengthiness. A pamphlet-in-the-making. Some quotes about William Ernest Henley, the poet behind Timothy’s valedictory, “Invictus” (correct title: “I. M. R. T. HAMILTON BRUCE (1846 - 1899),” a requiem for a life-long friend of Henley’s): ---------------------------------------------------- Tantalizing excerpts, from below: “LONG LISTS OF UNPRINTABLE SYNONYMS FOR THE HUMAN ORGANS OF GENERATION” “THE SWIRL AND SCENT OF APRIL BLOSSOMS, THE BLUE SKY, AND THE TWO YOUNG MEN IN THE HIRED CAR” ---------------------------------------------------- Buckley, Jerome Hamilton, “William Ernest Henley: A Study in the ‘Counter-Decadence’ of the ‘Nineties’” (Princeton: 1945): After the end of their friendship, Henley called Stevenson the “Shorter Cathechist of Vailima,” an “artist in morals.” “. . . despite its truculency as an aesthetic unit, ‘Invictus’ attains all the emotional and intellectual impact of true poetry . . . . . . an inversion of Victorian defeatism in terms of a personal assent. It proclaimed the militant optimist . . . an Everlasting Yea . . .” Robert Louis Stevenson’s dedication to Henley’s copy of “Virginibus Puerisque” (Stevenson was a close friend of Henley’s [more below, on innuendos that theirs was a homosexual friendship]): “. . . this world appears a brave gymnasium, full of sun-bathing, and horse exercise, and bracing, manly virtues . . .” Connell, John, “W.E. Henley” (London, Constable: 1949): Leslie Stephens’ 1875 visit to Henley’s sickbed, while in Edinburgh to lecture on the Alps: “I had an interesting visit to my poor contributor. He is a miserable cripple in the Infirmary, who has lost one foot and is likely to lose another . . . and he has a crippled hand besides. He has been 18 months laid up here and in that time has taught himself Spanish, Italian and German, and he writes poems of the Swinburne kind.” PLAYED DOMINOES ON THE COUNTERPANE WITH THEM Robert Louis Stevenson: “in a little room with two beds, and a couple of sick children in the other bed; a girl came in to visit the children, and played dominoes on the counterpane with them . . . the poor fellow sat up in his bed, with his hair and beard all tangled, and talked as cheerfully as if he had been in a King’s palace, or the great King’s palace of the blue air. He has taught himself two languages since he has been lying there.” Connell, on the friendship between Henley and Stevenson: PASSING THE LOVE OF WOMEN “. . . quotation is it is usually followed by the observation that ‘thus began one of the greatest literary friendships which history records’ . . . It was a romantic friendship, in the strict sense of that term . . . its deep emotional facet . . . sides of it which were sordidly practical . . . its undertones and echoes, its major insistence and its minor plaintiveness, are a dominant factor in all that either of them, from this day onward, did or wrote or said or suffered. . . . For between them there was a strong, bitter, binding love, passing the love of women. . . .” WHIBLEY TITTUPPED DELICATELY “Charles Whibley tittupped delicately round the truth about that friendship when he said that it brought both men something of the warmth and romance of youth. Boys at boarding schools pass ordinarily through this phase between fifteen and eighteen. Neither Henley nor Stevenson had been to boarding school. Henley’s awakening affections . . . Stevenson’s brief and transient . . . no development of romantic affection with boys of his own age . . .” BOYS . . . HAD PLAYED TOGETHER --- UNDER CUMMY “Stevenson . . . thought of the men . . . who had been boys with him as brothers. There was nothing in the least exotic about them; they had played together --- under Cummy’s supervision . . . He loved them dearly; but romanticize his relation with them he could not.” DELICIOUSLY UNEXPECTED . . . DELICIOUSLY RIGHT . . . the element of strangeness, of the deliciously unexpected which was so deliciously right. Each found in the other something of the long-dreamed of part of himself, . . .” NARCISSUS “. . . the dim Narcissus evocation . . . In the lives of some he never turns and steps into reality. Others, looking up from brooding over a book of poetry, or walking home in the dark after a school match, or listening to music, are suddenly troubled with recognition and longing. If it happens at sixteen or seventeen, it passes without losing the tenuous, fragile quality of a dream. When it happens on the edge of or in manhood it is much more disturbing or scarring . . . “ DOOMED AND BOUND . . . MEN, NOT BOYS . . . the presage of inevitability. From that first moment they were doomed and bound. They were men, not boys; and some part of their natures made them act and think and feel as boys. . . .” ALL THE MORE DELECTABLE “all the more delectable . . . come to them in the time of marbles, moonshine and pimply necks. . . .” THEIR LITTLE BOY WAS NOW FULLY A MAN “Stevenson, delicate mollycoddle . . . bewildered but loving parents that their little boy was now fully a man. Each, agonized by manhood’s demands . . . could --- in their friendship --- become a boy again.” GLORIOUSLY . . . OUT OF SIGHT OF CUMMY “Spiritually knickered and jerseyed (and, gloriously enough, out of sight of Cummy), they would roam and romp and tease and giggle and play pranks . . . or, halted on the blissful, mist-wrapped summit . . . they could argue portentously and write each other poems. They could both be utterly irresponsible.” Henley was the editor who printed Wilde’s rebuttals during the Wilde scandal. Wilde reviewed Henley’s poetry, calling it half-Marsyas, half-Apollo. Connell: “. . . the tattle of twilit London . . . That at exactly this time Henley and Whibley were engaged in the industrious correction of long lists of unprintable synonyms for the human organs of generation, in order to help Farmer in his ~Dictionary of Slang,~ was a fact of which Wilde was unaware . . . . . . under the pseudonym ‘H,’ which was mistaken for a disguise of Henley’s . . .” Henley was the source for the character Long John Silver in Stevenson’s “Treasure Island.” He worked on the research staff building the Encyclopedia Brittanica. “THE FIXED POLE” & “THE FLICKERING NEEDLE” “His was the fixed pole to which the flickering needle of Stevenson’s personality was pulled back again and again. Many years later, . . . after he and Stevenson had quarreled, he made a sentimental pilgrimage . . . Then it was not spring; and there was no spring in Henley’s heart, but nostalgia. . . . Henley remembered the swirl and scent of April blossoms, the blue sky, and the two young men in the hired car.” ------------------------------------------------------ Dodie Bellamy wrote: > Hi All, > > Kevin (Killian) and I were in Indiana when Timothy McVeigh was > executed. We were staying at my mother's house, where, if one got up > early one was forcefed incendiary talk-radio. Imagine making your > morning coffee to the voice of Dr. Laura. I usually skirted the > issue by sleeping until 10, when Martha Stewart was on TV and the > radio was turned off. Coffee with Martha was fine, learning how to > make handbags decorated with the impressions of weeds dipped in > paint, etc. > > But, we were flying back to SF the morning of McVeigh's execution, > and thus, the talk-radio was on. It was mostly pro-execution. One > Chicago broadcaster was actually calling McVeigh the McMurderer. > > So, when I got back, I read the online reportage in the New York > Times, and there was a very interesting passage about people > struggling to interpret McVeigh's face as he was dying. It reads > like the beginning of a Roland Barthes essay: > > >As the witnesses to the execution spoke through the day, their > >jarringly different descriptions offered a lucid but unexplored > >commentary about the power of the camera. The two network > >journalists chosen by lottery to watch, Byron Pitts of CBS and > >Shepard Smith of the Fox News Channel, were careful not to read > >anything into Mr. McVeigh's expression. Mr. Smith was especially > >nuanced in reporting that Mr. McVeigh's skin had turned yellow and > >that he had seemed to die painlessly; yet Mr. Smith was rare in > >remaining so astutely aware that each witness would read the event > >differently. As Paul Howell, whose daughter died in the bombing and > >who was also a witness, said, "We didn't get anything from his face." > > > >But many family members who watched on closed circuit television in > >Oklahoma City saw something else. After seeing images from a > >stationary camera above Mr. McVeigh that stared into his face, they > >said things like "We saw hatred" and "It was like I was looking at > >the face of evil." > > > >That lesson about the camera seemed willfully lost on the > >commentators, even when they noticed it. On the Fox News Channel, > >John Gibson rhetorically jumped up and down after a woman who had > >watched on closed circuit said it was "a slap in the face" when Mr. > >McVeigh turned his head away. Mr. Gibson, inflammatory as usual, > >didn't spend time wondering whether the people watching thousands of > >miles away were imposing ideas on an image they could not truly come > >close to. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:29:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Boring (4) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Michael > > Answer to your question: Is pleasure is the > *only* reason & the *only* cause > for doing *anything*? I would not be so sure. i'm not sure either - it may be possible that there are individuals who do not seek pleasure but pain, or its equivelant - i've simply never met them > My little twelve step program for withdrawing > from the dimension of pleasure > isn't necessarily a confession of my "self" > though some things may be > nominally true about my nominal little self. > these 12 reasons are reasons > anyone could have given for doing anything. > these are just some of the > things in this world that motivate people to do > things. motivations quite > possibly are not all towards pleasure, and > motivations are not necessarily > the substratum for activity. i cannot say for > sure that you are wrong, i > cannot say that every action, every effort does > not reduce to > pleasure-seeking with any certainty, but i sure > have my doubts you can know > that it does. besides, that would make > "pleasure-seeking" a sort of > tautological theory of behavior. > > weird thing is, i trust language on a certain > level. it can tell us things, > perhaps false things, but reasons enough for > speculating on the possibility > that we are not all so fundamentally > egocentric, where we are not something > like mystical acorns lodged deep within our > bodies or spirits, etc. what > self is, is and will likely remain a mystery. that i would agree to - we are certainly mysterious being in a mysterious world - so then why *trust* the self that creates language? > and, well, some people who are miserable in > this world do read poetry, > people with f'ed up reasons of all sorts, or > people with things beyond their > control (or some combination of both). it > happens on this planet, or at > least I believe so. i am not so willing to relieve people of the responsibility for even their smallest acts, including (perhaps esp.) the reading and writing of poetry - while we are all "f'ed up", our reasons or excuses depending on yr bent or mood - i've never actually seen anyone forced to read poetry - even in school i often made the choice simply to *not* do the reading that was required of me, preferring to follow my own predilictions -for this i was rewarded with bad marks, which closed many avenues and opportunities, and opened up others - this was, for lack of a better term, a choice on my planet, people make those > you also said: "everything we do is based on > some > > prior condition or concept of self" > > whoa. how can you be so sure? i don't think > you can be so sure. though i > guess it's possible you are. it is not to hard to see that everything an individual does is based on some notion of their self perception - the field of psychology is largely devoted to viewing the self in a more healthy light so that one's actions might be altered poetry too is based on both previous conditions (the writer's state of mind - literary influences - cultural influences - ad infinitum) and the poets concept of self i would argue that there is nothing in the universe that does not arise from previous conditions - time is real, physics tells us this > i agree with your comment about positing an > unconscious mind... change that > to "body". perhaps a new word needs to be coined - the buddhists are much better at this game > i wrote the following last night, a sort of > obvious joke on the surface (if > you dig philosophy, & I believe you do) but > then a not so obvious joke > underneath. things can get complicated > quickly, and then they get sort of > strange, into a world without answers. it's > based on some very excellent > graffiti i saw last night that said, > "everything you know is wrong." i > laughed at it, but then i don't believe we can > know we know, and so on.... "everything you know is wrong" creates some paradoxes (presumably suitable for 1st year Philosophy students and the like) personally i like the title of Robert Anton Wilson's film script for an unmade film "Reality is What You Can Get Away With" > justified true belief > > is knowledge > > > some of the things you know > > are wrong > > > > after all, at the end of your post, i think > what we believe is not that far > apart. i don't think you're just aware of your > uncertainties. after all as > you mention a gestalt can be made of many > things into one thing, hence the > possibility of all things boiling down to > pleasure-seeking. yet you again - i wonder if another term other than "pleasure" might be necessary - one that includes the drive towards wholeness implicit in order - and entropy > acknowledge something that you agree with about > what i wrote those possibly > many things forming the gestalt. the > uncertainty itself is a sign. > > thanks for your sincerity michael. > > best, > > Patrick > ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:30:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lisa jarnot Subject: brooklyn summer sublet Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit One Bedroom Apartment Sublet in Williamsburg, Brooklyn Seeking Cat Lover (I will be leaving my cat). Saturday June 30-Saturday July 7th (one week) = $170 Sunday July 8th-Saturday July 14th (one week) = $170 Friday August 3- Friday August 24th (three weeks) = $500 Plus phone deposit. Very close to Bedford L train (first stop from Manhattan). Safe neighborhood with bookstores and cafes. If you are interested in any or all of these weeks, please call me. (I will be returning only for one night between the first two weeks listed.) Lisa Jarnot (718) 388-4938 jarnot@pipeline.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:02:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: BeeHive 4:2 NOW ONLINE (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ________________________________________________ BeeHive Hypertext/Hypermedia Literary Journal Volume 4 : Issue 2 |...| June 2001 ________________________________________________ ISSN: 1528-8102 http://beehive.temporalimage.com ________________________________________________ IN THIS ISSUE... ________________ WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? Induced Growth and Abberant Form in Cinematic Taxa... by THOMAS ZUMMER ... http://beehive.temporalimage.com/content_apps42/app_a.html >>--------<< NEW DIGITAL EMBLEMS by WILLIAM POUNDSTONE ... http://beehive.temporalimage.com/content_apps42/app_b.html >>--------<< VOG by ADRIAN MILES ... http://beehive.temporalimage.com/content_apps42/app_c.html >>--------<< WAR GAMES by JENNIFER LEY ... http://beehive.temporalimage.com/content_apps42/app_d.html >>--------<< [CON]ARTIST by RANDY ADAMS ... http://beehive.temporalimage.com/content_apps42/app_e.html >>--------<< ISSUES IN PHENOMENOLOGY by RYAN WHYTE ... http://beehive.temporalimage.com/content_apps42/app_f.html >>--------<< THE COUNTRY BETWEEN US by DIANE GRECO ... http://beehive.temporalimage.com/content_apps42/app_g.html >>--------<< MOMENT by JOE KEENAN ... http://beehive.temporalimage.com/content_apps42/app_h.html >>--------<< SPARROWS AND OTHER POEMS by DOUG TANOURY ... http://beehive.temporalimage.com/content_apps42/app_i.html ________________________________________________ BeeHive ArcHive: http://beehive.temporalimage.com/archive/index.html ALL THE CONTENT FROM PAST ISSUES OF BEEHIVE Highlights include: ON STELARC : ALAN SONDHEIM http://beehive.temporalimage.com/archive/41arc.html TOWARD ELECTRACY : GREGORY ULMER / TALAN MEMMOTT [intro by Mark Amerika] http://beehive.temporalimage.com/archive/34arc.html NY/SF POETRY COLLECTION : 30 Poets from San Francisco and New York http://beehive.temporalimage.com/archive/23arc.html MODERN KELLER : JACQUELINE GOSS http://beehive.temporalimage.com/archive/33arc.html HELL'S FATHER : ROWAN WOLF http://beehive.temporalimage.com/archive/41arc.html ________________________________________________ BeeHive Creative Director: Talan Memmott / beehive@percepticon.com BeeHive Associate Editor: Alan Sondheim / beehive@percepticon.com BeeHive Poetry Editor: Ted Warnell / beehivepoetry@percepticon.com ________________________________________________ BeeHive Hypertext/Hypermedia Literary Journal is produced and published by PERCEPTICON CORPORATION SAN FRANCISCO CA USA http://www.percepticon.com copyright 1998-2001 ________________________________________________ Techinical Note: Due to Netscape's departure from their own previous propritery DHTML protocols, some work within BeeHive is not compatible with NETSCAPE 6.0. ________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:29:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Announcing the following very special event: Monday, June 25th at 8:00 pm TED WILENTZ MEMORIAL Theodore (Ted) Wilentz was co-owner of the legendary Eighth Street Bookshop and co-publisher of Corinth Books. The program will include music and commentaries by family, friends, and writers who have known Ted over a lifetime devoted to books and publishing. Mr. Wilentz, whom the New York Times called "A Bookman Extraordinaire," established the Eighth Street Bookshop in Greenwich Village in 1947, first at the corner of MacDougal and Eighth Streets and later at 17 West Eighth Street. The publisher Jason Epstein described the store as "a bibliographer's paradise," one that inspired him to launch Anchor Books, one of the first lines of quality paperback books. Mr. Wilentz was a past president of the American Booksellers Association and, under the imprint of Corinth Books, published books by Allen Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac, Diane di Prima, John Ashbery, Ted Berrigan, and many others who frequented his store and became lifelong friends. Ted Wilentz died in Washington, DC on May 1, 2001 of complications of lung and heart disease at the age of 86. This event is free and open to the public. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan and is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. * * * Also announcing: FOR TWO NIGHTS ONLY!! Thursday & Friday, June 21st & 22nd at 10:30 pm Poetry Project Friday Night Coordinator REGIE CABICO and AILEEN CHO in QUEER SHOULDER TO THE WHEEL at HERE performance space (145 6th Avenue, between Spring & Broome) "Offers more tough out-loud wit and sheer smarts than what is running off- or on-Broadway." -New York Blade With their own brand of quirky queer politics, slam star veterans REGIE CABICO and AILEEN CHO riff their title from Allen Ginsberg's poem "America." Fasten your seat belt as these two performers from two coasts collide and share their wicked work and family stories. Directed by JIN AUH. Tickets $15. Call 212-647-0202 for more information, or visit Here's Web site at www.here.org. * * * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:02:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: peter culley Subject: homer makes the oed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The circle of life is complete; the cosmic dance unfolds--Homer Simpson = enters the OED. http://www.oed.com/public/news/01064.htm#message ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:27:49 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Caterina Davinio Organization: Art Electronics Subject: Poetry Bunker in net connection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your interventions at the virtual meeting and photos of the real happening at Orsogrill delle Artiglierie here: http://www.geocities.com/biennale2001/interventi.html 49th Biennale di Venezia Happening of the Poetry Bunker in net connection with KARENINA.IT (poesia in funzione fatica) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 10:44:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik New and Interesting New and Interesting (and Free) from Greenbean Press in NYC New Publication Announcement Subject: FREE GREEN BEAN PRESS SAMPLER! A free Green Bean Press sampler is now available. This 28-page chapbook includes work by Nathan Graziano, Daniel Crocker, A.D. Winans, Jeff Grimshaw, Leonard Gontarek, Stephanie Lynn Hilpert, joe r, Sal Salasin, Mark Terrill, and Michael Kriesel. All the work is excerpted from books published by Green Bean Press. If you would like a copy of this sampler, please send an e-mail with your name and address to: gbpress@earthlink.net (or) Ian Griffin Green Bean Press P.O. Box 237 NYC 10013 USA http://home.earthlink.net/~gbpress SPECIAL OFFER! From now until the end of July, I am offering a special on the three most recent titles Green Bean Press has published: LOVE-HATE CONTINUUM by Mark Terrill, SEASONS FROM THE SECOND FLOOR by Nathan Graziano, and DAUGHTER OF A ROGUE by Stephanie Lynn Hilpert. Order any 2 of these chapbooks, which are normally $5ppd. each, for $8ppd., , or all 3 of them for $11ppd. To order, simply send checks/money orders (made out to "Green Bean Press") or well-concealed cash to the address below. Excerpts from all 3 of these chapbooks are included in the free sampler which is mentioned above. COMING SOON! WING-DING AT UNCLE TUG'S AND OTHER STORIES by Jeff Grimshaw. This is a truly hilarious collection of 18 short stories by Jeff Grimshaw (publisher of Crystal Drum magazine, award-winning weekly columnist for the Delaware Valley News, and former guitarist for the Wart Hogs, for whom he wrote the songs "Somebody Owes Me Money" and "Yeah!"). If you would like a copy of this sampler, please send an e-mail with your name and address to: gbpress@earthlink.net (or) Ian Griffin Green Bean Press P.O. Box 237 NYC 10013 USA http://home.earthlink.net/~gbpress *********************************************************** Fence #7 is on newsstands, at bookstores, and in mailboxes and features poems, short fiction, art and opinions by, among others Adrienne Rich, Melissa Marks, Donald Revell, Martha Ronk, Cate Marvin, Bruce Andrews, Jane Unrue, Gabriel Gudding, Betsy Fagin, Laura Didyk, Lee Upton, Claudia Keelan, Prageeta Sharma, Geoffrey O'Brien, Judy Budnitz, Henry Dumas, Dara Wier, Laura Kasischke, Gary Lutz, Jackson Mac Low, Camille Guthrie, Elizabeth Robinson, Jorie Graham, Brendan Lorber, Iustin Panta, Kevin Larimer, Dawn Lundy Martin, David Chirico, Mong Lan, Catherine Meng, Amy England, Peter Richards, Louise Bourgeois to subscribe send a check (made out to Fence Magazine, Inc.) for $14 for one year or $26 for two to: Fence 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 or subscribe online at http://www.fencemag.com, where you will also find the latest installment of Laird Hunt's The Impossibly, a serialized novel forthcoming from Coffee House Press in the fall as well as a new feature: every month a monthly "Month," by D.E. Steward ************************************************************** Adrei Codrescu's Cyber Corpse #9, is now on line for your viewing and reading pleasure. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:41:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Carolyn Gereau Alas, all I know of Carolyn Gereau is that she seems to live and work in Washington, DC (1800 K St. NW, to be precise). Fish and Chips Spinal cords stretch like foundation giving Into crosswords that never Match up. I ate twenty five jello pudding Do this nows and what Does fat free means while painting Toe nails red? Saturday. Haven't had fish n chips since I Believed in lent and now, how she says babies Out with the bathwater is not something mother Believed in but I did, the whole kit and carry on. The whole Epic disproportion. Half of an Eyelash does not make for a great story beginning thou shall not when I shalted for. -- Carolyn Gereau ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:17:54 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: if I spoke too quickly ... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" chris i've just sent don a dv video of the performance you speak of. i got very involved in it since i was videoing it and felt a part of the performance. it was a bit long though. hope you get a chance to see it, it's pretty dark, well it was dark in there, and what it doesn't capture is the smell of citrus that pervaded the space as oranges(or was it mandarines) were being peeled. cheers komninos seahorses and emus club. >Dear Geoffey, > >I'm grateful to know what you were referring to in your last message re: >WCW, & appreciate your criticism on this matter as well (& am provoked to >offer an explanation). I don't know how much background is needed here, but >clearly the event you are referring to is the 9-way mind performance at >Hallwalls during the e-poetry 2001 festival in Buffalo. I know people were >irked by various aspects of the show-mainly that it went on too long (about >61 minutes) at the end of a full day of conferencing-though I can believe >that some were put off by some of the content as well; obviously you were! >At least 1/3 of the audience had left by the time we finished, which was >perfectly OK esp. since after 45 mins. of our set we invited people to leave >if they wanted. Anyway, since it has come up, let me explain what was >happening. The segment of our performance that you take offense to is a >Simultaneity (a la Mac Low) constructed by Don Byrd. There are three >different texts involved: one is Don's poem "The Greatest Show on Earth", & >two collaborative pieces written online by the group ("April Fool's Day jam" >& "Bots Arise"). Group members were assigned to read each piece in unison, >then at the end improv (or sample) fragments from any of the pieces. I >think I was reading from "The greatest Show on Earth" (& can't remember why >he wasn't reading it, or even what he was reading), which goes: > >Once upon a time and far away, Gertrude >Stein, William Carlos Williams, Ezra >Pound, Hilda Doolittle, and James Joyce >Set sail in a beautiful pea-green boat, a pea- >Green boat on a timeless sea. > >And let's say, > >Not >A damned >Thing >Depends >Upon the >Red >Wheel barrow >Glazed >With rain >Water >Nor upon >Those >Damned chickens > >And there are >No ideas >In tings >Dings >Rings >In pea-green boats > >The undergraduate, back during the Cold >War, said the Red wheel barrow was the >Russians and the white chickens were the >Americans, and the Americans had better >watch out or they'd get run over in their >ideas and things. > >I am not going to be run over to day or die. >I am going to write this poem instead, >This poem; > >I am not going to die today; >I am going to write this poem instead. > >and how will I know it's a poem, >if it doesn't whine or sigh, >if it doesn't jog-trot >or sing-song like those newyorkpoets > >later I might record it and screw around >with its digits >until I can't understand a word I said > >I might tear >into four parts >And call it >my first symphony > >But that hasn't happened yet > >I am still writing this poem > >Still an interesting time is coming >When I will (or won't) >screw around with the poem's digit > >And at some point if I do >I almost won't be able to understand my >words >and I will or won't still be writing this >poem then. > >The truth value >And the temporal character of the previous >passage >Will suffer a curious and beautiful upset. > > > > > > >One way to express the idea of entropy >Is to say that >More is forgotten than remembered. > > >What was ironic about me reading this piece (that becomes mine only in voice >and moment) in mid-April is that I had just been teaching the Objectivist >poets in my cultural history class (20th century world) at NJIT a week >prior. I played them a recording of Williams reading "The Red Wheelbarrow" >(in '55) & spent a lot of time discussing the poem, having different >students recite it, interpret it, and so on. Most of them couldn't really >grasp it. Nothing about USSR/US politics came up in the discussion, and >I've never seen the poem from that angle. That day, I was seeing it from an >eco-poetic viewpoint, fwiw, and the discussion was exciting. I am well >familiar with the poem, been reading Williams since college & was really >lucky to have been in a seminar with Ed Sanders in '86 where he spent at >least an hour coming at that poem from many directions, scanning it, singing >it, picking it apart. Anyway, back to the present where I actually think >Don's quip is funny, and does say something about e-poetry (& the larger >culture it is a part of). Call it a duality, but I had no absolutely no >problem vocalizing the words/ideas therein (maybe this is a little bit like >Elton John singing all those love songs to women in the 70s). So much >depends upon a *lot* of things at this point, in terms of art & humanity. >Sure "the red wheel barrow" (in form and substance) is still somehow a part >of all of it but if we don't get to other important realities, isn't >Williams' sentiment practically relegated to quaintness & possibly total >annihilation? For worse or better what we saw at e-poetry was a far cry >from Williams' big little poem. Anyway, we/I weren't trying to irk you or >anyone else, just raising the possibility & question, checking in with an >alternative view. What I regret having done, now that you mention it & I >remember it, is to make it in to somewhat of a mantra, there was perhaps no >need to have the phrase repeated several times during improv sections of the >set. > >I do wish my general poetic knowledge were more intact; it's hard for me at >this point to see things in one (or even three) dimension(s)! > > >Enjoying the conversation, from station to station, & other >threads here as well. > >As for Nudel, who knows.... > > >-Chris F. > > >p.s. I checked out your web site: very cool, slick in a good way, & great to >hear so much there. It's in my bookmarks-good luck w/it! > > > > >>> > >Subject: if I spoke too quickly ... > >Did I miss a slur??? Let me go back and look. I mostly like his rantings as >its fun. But I in no way uphold bullshit. I did witness Chris blatantly >misuse WCW's red wheel barrow to defend his argument for something or >another. It came from a direct misunderstanding of general poetic knowledge >which is directly responsible for the art he creates. This just irked me and > >to see his quick response in another form of what I perceived as another >form of snuffing out creativity - well I just shot back. I should have >looked further into what m&r had to say. Thanks for pointing out racism, >which I will never uphold as art! > > >Geoffrey Gatza >editor BlazeVOX2k1 >http://vorplesword.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:33:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films Comments: cc: thomas/swiss In-Reply-To: <928143068thomas.swiss@drake.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT What comes to mind: Tom & Viv (Eliot. Hated it) Barfly (kinda about Bukowski. Liked it) Poetic Justice (not really about a poet but it does include some verse by Maya Angelou. Hated it) Mrs. Parker and the Viscious Circle (Dorothy et al. Liked it) Henry and June (on Miller & Nin, kinda fun, I thought) Il Postino (Neruda. Skiped it) --JGallaher ----------------------- For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles that portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or even minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th century poets. Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! Thom Swiss thomas.swiss@drake.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:26:33 +0100 Reply-To: Robin Hamilton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: the academic list.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Joe Brennan" > One must remember though, > that the 60s activists were not very bright, not in the USA > anyway. Germany I don't know. But that cohort was not all that > intellectually sophisticated. Perhaps that's why they were defeated so > easily. In the USA, maybe, but while Rude Dutschke got smacked in the head by a bullet, Danny the Red is now a Green Euro MP. And quite a lot of several of the current French and German top-gun politicos were sixties activists. Not to speak of the line of New Labour sell-outs in Britain, like Jack Straw. Many things they might have been, but "not all that intellectually sophisticated" wasn't one. But then, maybe things +were+ different in America ... Robin Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:38:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: Canessa Park 6/24/01 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Canessa Park Reading Series 708 Montgomery Street @ Columbus San Francisco, CA Just a reminder! Sunday June 24th at 5 pm Norma Cole & Meredith Quartermain See you there, Avery E. D. Burns __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:48:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: can we have our ball back? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello, list. The good kids at can we have our ball back? (usually at www.canwehaveourballback.com) wanted me to reassure the world that they indeed still exist and soon will have a new (their 7th) issue--perhaps by this weekend. When this fine 'zine reappears, I'll let you know. Take care. Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:49:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dunning langpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/18/2001 5:53:34 PM, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG writes: << I frankly do not see how sorrow could be pleasurable. That just makes no sense. >> Agree or disagree, but it has been said that one of Bob Dylan's greatest revelations was that sorrow can be beautiful. Is there pleasure in beauty, or rather in the seemingly felt perception of it? Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:03:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit reports like this are infinitely invaluable in light of the globe between all/us thanks fer taking the time to jogjog yr memory between the lines & what else miekal Lawrence Upton wrote: > Writers Forum Workshop Saturday, 16 June 2001 > > Writers Forum met yesterday, as it has every few weeks for half a century, > in one guise or another. > > In the 70s they were called _The Experimental Workshops_ at the then > National Poetry Centre, seeking to concentrate on sound one week, sign the > next and performance the next. Those of us who cut our teeth there played > merry hell with that agenda. > > The workshops also go by the name of _Bob's workshop_ and _Cobbing's > workshop_ > > Many have been involved over 5 decades, but the one remaining constant is > Bob Cobbing, now in his 81st year. & he was there yesterday. He convenes it > and he chairs it though without any overt movement! > > There's something of a Quaker meeting about it, the perhaps embarrassed > quietness before and between performances, the intensity of attention, the > good humour and good will. > > I say performances, and sometimes they are, but they are often in a real > sense performance experiments and tests... > > Some of the contributions yesterday were as follows. > > Sean Bonney performed new sections of his _Heresy_ book, still very much a > work in progress; and some prose pieces which he said himself are unlike > anything else he has ever written > > Adrian Clarke read final sections from his election piece i.e. he takes the > election process and news as his subject input to a preconceived form of so > many words a line, so many lines to a page and so many pages. What he does > with that rigidity is spectacular. It's dense and witty writing and I am by > no means clear about it at all; and won't be at all clear, I suspect, until > I have had a chance to hear it several times - and he's still editing and > rewriting - and to read it. > > Mike Weller launched his new booklet _Climb a free Weller_ (Writers Forum, > as publisher) with a lively performance which included an imaginative > performance of a page which bore very little more than the letter z in > various patterns. Weller links graphic novels and cartoons, story-telling > and sound poetry. > > Lawrence Upton and Bob Cobbing launched a new pamphlet (also WF) by Michael > Basinski, Basinski being in Buffalo, NY: _MOOL3 Ghosts_ , which utilises > characters from a wide range of character sets, except spaces, not just the > usual alphanumerics, in blocks of text. > > It gives no indication or instruction on the *how of performance... > > Upton read the first page, finding words and near words where they could be > found, finding sounds and or gestures for every printed character upon the > page, working up a sweat. Cobbing read the second page, seated, moving > steadily through, finding sounds for every character, composing a sound poem > on the hoof. Then they made a simultaneity of page 3, each at the same time > applying the method previously employed solo. > > Before that, Upton had read about one third of his text _Tyranny_, some of > which has been shown on _Wryting_ and some of which is included in the > Barque Press pamphlet _100 days_ > > Cobbing runs the workshop without much overt control. Unlike some workshops, > there isn't a post-mortem to find what is *wrong with what is done; nor, for > that matter, what is right. Sometimes people will suggest approaches - I > made a very small contribution to Weller's performance when he said he > wasn't sure how to approach a line - and often people congratulate each > other. > > But it is an open and democratic process and you learn from each other. > Mostly, one learns by doing. Using myself as an example again, I made quite > a few discoveries during my approach to Basinki's poem yesterday; and have > made some changes to _Tyranny_ this morning, in the light of what I read > yesterday: 2 entirely different kinds of writing, 2 entirely different > lessons. It may be that _Tyranny_ is really finished now, and ready for > final publication. > > So the workshops enable one to find out what others are up to - a number of > sub voicive poetry performances have been invited in response to what I have > seen there - and they also enable one to experiment in a supportive > atmosphere, to take big risks in a context where everyone understands what > is happening. The ability to perform to a group of one's peers every few > weeks is extremely valuable. > > The workshop is open to anyone in sympathy with these aims. As and when you > are in London, if this interests you, contact me or Cobbing to find out when > the next one is. [Usually there is a break in August] > > On the weekend of 14th and 15th July there will be a two day event in London > marking the half century of WF. Cobbing's organising it (because the > Offficial Poetry System has no interest) so I can't give you many details - > I don't think he knows it himself yet. There will be an exhibition - this is > at Klinker, a music and poetry venue based in the backroom of a pub in North > London - of WF publications, now well over 1000 in number, and two > performances, one on the Saturday and one on the Sunday > > Many are dead now, of course, so the performances may well represent > relatively recent years - I was one or two years old when it started (and > apparently that is a hard moment to define as the activities and the names > used to designate and market them (Group H, Arts Together, all gone under > the hill now) have changed over the years, separated from each other, > combined with each other)... > > Klinker's worth a visit before then, for those who can, because there is an > exhibition of Cobbing's _triptychs_ at present, the earliest being 30 or 40 > years old > > I used to post reports like this on The British and Irish Poets List but I > am not on that now. In part I did it to encourage newcomers, and that hope > was much greater on britpo than on the lists I am about to post on; but I > also think it is worthwhile to leave some record of what is going on. There > is little other documentation. Sometimes recordings and photographs are > made; but the bulk is unrecorded in any way. > > I don't know if this will have been of any interest. Should I report later > events, of course, I would not repeat the background information. > > Apologies if you get this twice - I'll send it to a couple of lists and also > to the WF mailing list I run, and which anyone can join by mailing me - > Cobbing himself is not online yet, though that may change soon > > Lawrence Upton > > --------------------------------------------------- > http://pages.britishlibrary.net/lawrence.upton/ > http://www.crosswinds.net/~subvoicivepoetry/ > http://www.crosswinds.net/~writersforum/ > --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:57:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: dear list In-Reply-To: <003101c0f6cd$c04eeb60$dc810fce@tenacrewood> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear list I have to apologize for violating the privacy of a fellow poet on this list. I responded publicly to a private email. This was in bad form and I apologize fully for this. I included this letter to demonstrate that the correct ideal was pointed out to me my a friend / person whom I respect as an artist. For a collective list which I shot my mouth off to ... this appeared to be the most relevant method of calming the waves, so to speak. ... not that I hold anything against Chris Funkhouser, I like him fine as a poet, performer, and educator but I tend towards Pound's notion of an accurate report. And it is a poets jobs to know and understand poetics to disseminate accurate representations of what the poets, whom we uphold, have said. I do feel that I have a valid complaint against his interpretations. And I can understand the icky feeling that Nudel gives, but I am confident that this is his art and his intention. Whether the act of pissing on personal boundaries is art I can't answer :) but assume for a moment that he is legitimate going under an collectivist credo that "the passion for destruction is also a creative passion" Mikail Bakunin. The Baraka post was a form of racist I agree, but directed towards white America not black. Which is just as ill advised as any other group, I agree. However, on a re-read I consider this a review of a performance of the 2 main stream artists. Nudel points out that at 20 dollars a ticket the small majority of poetry fans who can affords this ñ 95% were white. He suggests that Baraka and Cortez are throw backs to minstrels, which is the same point that Spike Lee made in his recent film "Bamboozled." Now I am a fan of both, and own collections of both authors. But, what Nudel is suggesting is along Sartre's quip people turn to objects when they are watched. Here we have a mainly white poetry audience of a certain socio-economic background gathered for an event. And Nudel is alluding that we could assume that the audience and authors have walked down very different life paths. And this is the context the post ñ a 95% white audience can feel good about themselves for paying to watch a radical man and woman accompanied with jazz in a comfortable environment. Then he comes back to his usual theme of money and poets and tailoring the performance to the gathering surrounding him. So I see this post as a throwing of stones to an unusual situation of audience who supports Baraka and Cortez for whatever reason / title we may bestow on them. This is a form of racism, and provocation can make for good art in its way, but this doesn't fit that bill, does it. But it is also not the thing to which one should associate it with real violent and non violent actions that take place everyday. This is a Nudel's trickery to get generally thoughtful people to stop and re-evaluate their setting in the backdrop of a very difficult living arrangement of people coping with people who are different than themselves. And that is his creative bent that I should warn anyone from trying to stop. He reminds me of the funny old guy on the street corner with the crumpled hat. He screams to the people all day long but harms nothing. I always wonder how people like this can keep coming up with this Ö so the end result is that Nudel is one of ours and there is enough people out there who couldn't care what we have to say or incite Ö so one telling another what is moral without placing something with the context of where it comes from and where is going is yet another -ism which can hold back art from taking place. Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:37:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: source of Perelman quotation? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I'm trying to find the original appearance of the following quotation by >Bob Perelman - anyone know where this is from?: > >"This writing does not concern itself with narrative in the conventional >sense. Story, plot, any action outside the syntactic and tonal actions of >the words is seen as secondary...Persona, Personism, the poet as trace of >the poet-demiurge-these, too, are now extraneous." > >If you do know the source, please backchannel to dkane@panix.com. Thanks >in advance. Do you know whom Perelman was quoting? -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 02:35:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - sam came down from the mountain he carried a wooden bundle you couldn't tell hewn or old wood or a cord it was all the same it was wood it was wood it was wood sam sang it was wood it was wood it was wood i was there, susan graham _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:12:38 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Scott=20Hamilton?= Subject: Re: list stats "Father forgive me..." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What a miserable > account you give of the NZ > scene, you traitor! > wystan Poor old Wystan! Might be useful for Richard to frame a presentation of the 'Language-influenced' curren t in NZ lit with a discussion of the recent volume of autobiographical writings by Alan Loney, who probably counts as the chief 'guru' of the trend. A repudiation, an extension? Extraordinary, to see such an elliptical, dour, recalcitrant talent turn suddenly to the memoir, to the oldest, the most traditional, genre of all? And to write more poetically than ever!? Have you read it Richard? Cheers Scott --- "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" wrote: > hey, richard, > who are you calling a 'rather tired old > guru' of 'language centred' > poetry?? you watch your mouth, young richard. I > maybe old, i deny 'guru' as > would any self-respecting 'language centred' > person, and i'd match my > energy levels with yours anyday--if i look tired its > because i've got less > than my usual 6 hours sleep. What a miserable > account you give of the NZ > scene, you traitor! > wystan > > -----Original Message----- > From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] > Sent: Friday, 15 June 2001 1:50 p.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: list stats "Father forgive me..." > > > Aaron etal. Well there are 13 from NZ. New Zealand > was (and still is > somewhat) culturally and historically hence somehow > politically tied to > Britain and from the sixties or mid fifties a shift > to the US culture. In > fact Christchurch is touted as being a more English > town than any in > England. Its also a place where people of a certain > ilk will accuse you of > being "a bloody pom". The England of my affections > is, and shall probably > forever remain, in my imagination: both my parents > being English. But the > feeling I get from British or English people is a > certain acid conservatism: > mind you these are terrible generalisations...it is > also the country that > produced some of the most brilliant thinkers > innovators and so on. I think > that the US is so large in size and population that > that in itself generates > enthusiasm: the need and the desire to communicate > (more).....this sort of > thing can be argued forever. Its strange that a > highly "progressive" > country such as the US still has the death penalty, > but then some of the > countries that crit the US are a bit dodgy: places > in the Middle East and > parts of Europe and India where ...well: they may > have history, and > museums... a friend of mine said once: "Euroe is one > big museum". But the > numbers. Probably there are fewer magazines and > outlets in England the UK > that are not dominated by "the official verse > culture"...this problem > happenning in the US but simply because of numbers > there (albeit a bit > marginalised) more small mags and more counter > cultures. It "goes on" you > know in England but probably the critics there are > more dismissive of > "experiment". It pertains here too...Wellington > being more clustered around > Victoria University where Bill Manhire (undoubtedly > a good poet) has his > "factory" to produce pseudo-modernist Manhire clones > who specialise oin > writing boring...well, perhaps I'd better choose > another term!...terminally > dull slobber that passes as "fascinating" and "new" > while Auckland > University (clustered around a few rather tired old > gurus of language-centre > d poetry) are producing ... well at least they are > encouraging some > alternative views. Then there was Scott Hamilton's > SALT that published > myself, Michael Arnold, Scott himself, Hamish > Dewe,Leon Mathews, Simon > Field,Miriam Bellard, Jack Ross, Thorin Kerr, James > McGoram, Kenn Mitchell > and Miriiam Bellard to name some in the last issue. > It was never meant to be > on going or official. BRIEF which attempts to be > avant-garde is interesting > ...edited by John Geraets...but there is not much > else: a poet called Kapka > Kassabova was touted about because she was > attractive and from Romania! She > was described as young and (implied exotic) but > writes rather dubious > stuff.One had to hear how beautiful she was before > seeing her work!! A > certain Mark Pirie (whose work is terminally dull) > sells massively. So - > apart from SALT - and writers such as myself, Scott > Hamilton, Hamish > Dewe,Jack Ross, Michael Arnold and Leon Mathews etc > and my friend Leicester > Kyle (whose on his own brilliant "trip") and last > but most Richard Taylor: > the lit scene here is pretty dead. > They keep republishing Allen Curnow - who is > undoubtedly a great poet - but > well there's not much else...unlesss you go to the > pubs and readings where > sometimes some sparks are seen. But there are > obviously at least 13 > (enlightened?) lurkers....out there...as to Britain. > My mate spent years in > London and apparently it still shuts down at 11 pm > like a mausoleum so God > knows why people go there. My father "escaped" from > England of the class > system to make a life in NZ as did my uncle, who > from owing ten pounds on > alighting pre the Second WW in this domain, became > the director manager of a > large chemical company and very well to do. No hope > of that in cold old > England....not the "real" England of my > immagination. THAT England is MINE. > I claim it. > Openness. That's what people lack. Openness and > friendliness. Be open. > Anycase 13 and 19 are odd numbers...there's > something odd about the whole > thing. Regards, Richard. PS Mind you I keep > re-watching "84 Charing Cross > Road" ("Father forgive me....")....so.... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "david.bircumshaw" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: list stats > > > > > > Great Britain 19 > > > > > > > > > This surprises me. > > > > > > -Aaron > > > > I take it you mean in respect of a little number, > Aaron. It doesn't > surprise > > me. This is still the land of snob-culture, > repackaged now as chatty > newgen. > > The last thing many in Britculture want is > communication, they thrive on > > frustrating others. So the general tone of > literary culture is that of a > > talking corpse, most of what life there is comes > from expats from out of > the > > sea's ozone haze surprises. > > > > Best > > > > David Bircumshaw > > > > Leicester (UK) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Aaron Belz" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:55 PM > > Subject: Re: list stats > > > > > > > > > > > > Great Britain 19 > > > > > > > > > This surprises me. > > > > > > -Aaron > > > ===== For "a ruthless criticism of every existing idea": THR@LL, NZ's class struggle anarchist paper http://www.freespeech.org/thrall/ THIRD EYE, a Kiwi lib left project, at http://www.geocities.com/the_third_eye_website/ and 'REVOLUTION' magazine, a Frankfurt-Christchurch production, http://cantua.canterbury.ac.nz/%7Ejho32/ ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 05:33:26 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Dunning langpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been off on holiday so am only now catching up on this thread, in bits. Had to jump in as one reductionist who believes that (properly functioning) human beings can't willingly do anything for anything other than pleasure. On the other hand, the pleasure continuum is very broad, and what Patrick calls non-pleasure would be in the indirect pleasure end. I can't give empirical evidence for this, just say that common sense makes it difficult to accept that Nature would not make that which helps the species survive pleasure for individuals to do, and all that does the opposite not. Etc. Nor do I think distinguishing between degrees of directness of pleasure trivial. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 03:54:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: the academic list.... In-Reply-To: <3d.d27132e.285c263d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed is making conversation with black women about black stripped search boys in d.c. the same as talking jive talk with black folk? At 11:02 PM 6/15/01 -0400, you wrote: >Subj: Re: The recent "discussion" >Date: 06/15/2001 10:24:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time >From: rdumain@igc.org (Ralph Dumain) >Sender: owner-frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu >Reply-to: >frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu >To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu > >Jim has put his finger on a key trait of academic propriety, though I >myself do not make the contrast with activism on the street. I find such >activism as fraught with treachery as dealing with academics Why? Because >the psychology of fascism has so deeply infected all social classes in this >society, members of all classes are militantly arrayed against the >penetration of critical thought into their worlds. It comes under one >guise in academia, under another in different spheres. Just to give you >one example that still has me steaming: yesterday I was sitting around >drinking coffee with some black women. In the course of conversation, I >made a strong attack on the DC police officers who recently strip-searched >a number of black school kids in the course of a field trip to the City >Jail. Do you know that all but one of these black women defended the strip >searches, and went on with their predictable defense of the >spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child philosophy that I've heard a zillion >times since I moved down south? This is barbarism, and it is a barbarism >that demonstrates how deeply committed people are to their unfreedom. As >for my alleged loyalty to the working class, I find it, to say the least, >rather difficult to deal with people under such conditions. I do not >pander to people in order to win their favor, no matter who they are. > >However, the academics are the last people to defend any intellectual >standards, as they have no intellectual or ethical standards to >uphold. They are part of the Matrix, and all of their pretenses at >politics effectively reflect the containment strategies at work in the >milieu into which they are socialized. > >I must add that this newcomer really pissed me off when he said he came in >search of an academic list. Then when he found it was not sufficiently >academic, he went to the administration to squeal. This is how all >academics behave, with few exceptions. Had this fellow mentioned he was in >search of an INTELLECTUAL list, I would have sympathized with his >frustration. But he sought out an ACADEMIC list, suggesting what a timid >little toad he really is. An intellectual list is not an academic list; >the two are mutually exclusive. Academia exists to contain and restrain >intellectual activity. Of course I think people should get paid for >intellectual work, and it's mighty hard to do in your spare time, though I >know independent scholars who have worked miracles. But if you are going >to be in it, as you have every right to be, then you must understand you >are in the enemy's camp. And if your intellectual output is crap, then you >are a traitor to your calling no matter how political you think you are, no >matter how many embassies you get arrested in front of, no matter how many >petitions you sign, no matter how many picket signs you hold up. You >cannot be a team player and be an intellectual. A critical intellectual is >never ever a team player. And an intellectual never seeks >collegiality. The nature of critical thought is that it is utterly >ruthless; it knows neither friendship nor fellowship; it is free, >independent, and absolute. > >It was Adorno who called the cops in the 60s. One must remember though, >that the 60s activists were not very bright, not in the USA >anyway. Germany I don't know. But that cohort was not all that >intellectually sophisticated. Perhaps that's why they were defeated so >easily. > > > >In a message dated 06/15/2001 9:20:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >grok@sprint.ca writes: > > > > >This is what's been happening here?? Jeeze... That's what happens when > >you're away actually putting your LIFE on the line in the streets -- the > >academics get all huffy and go running to the admin when their FEELINGS > >get hurt... Awww.... > > > >As for the *snitch* -- there are INDEED good reasons for Ralph's going > >apeshit from time to time; a main one IMO being the very 'propriety' that > >is 'expected' on 'academic' Lists (that is somehow confused with > >'professionalism'...) This rather pompous and self-righteous behavior is > >phony and bourgeois to-the-core -- and has been expressed here clearly in > >a 'classroom snitch' behavior/mentality -- exhibited by all-too many > >academic-types (an 'ivory-tower' syndrome IMO). Frankly, this guy had > >better not actually get INVOLVED in REAL politics, because people in 'our' > >sort of politics will likely end up in jail -- and BAD things happen to > >snitches in jail. > > > >Such discussions certainly do NOT serve the workingclass; but no matter > >Dumain's abrasiveness, I am always certain that he DOES work in the > >interests of the workingclass. However, the same COULD NOT be said for the > >VAST majority of academics, IMO -- and meaning the majority of _this_ > >Lists subscribers, most likely... > > > >Didn't Adorno snitch on the campus occupiers in the `60's? Or was that > >Marcuse? > > > > > >Jim W. Jaszewski. > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 07:57:53 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: The Atlantic Center for the Arts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.atlanticcenterforthearts.org I've just finished a residency at the Atlantic Center for the Arts that I enjoyed so much I thought I should tell this list about it, and encourage people on it to apply for similar residencies. Go to the above URL to get details. My residency was under Richard Kostelanetz. I had to pay to get to the place, but room, board, and the use of all kinds of terrific computer hardware and software, and studio space, was free (except for a $20 application fee). The residency was for three weeks. Fellow associates, as we were called, included Kathy Ernst, Scott Helmes and John M. Bennett, friends of mine (as is Richard). I'd personally met both John and Richard before but not Kathy and Scott, so doing the latter was a big plus, as was meeting the four younger associates in our group-- and the associates in the only other group at ACA with us, and their "master-artist"/group-leader, A-1 painter Kerry James Marshall. It was probably the best inter-personal arts experience I've ever had, for I learned a lot about using computers for doing colored visual poetry--and making movies! I picked up a bunch of ideas from the work and talk of the others, and from collaborations. (I got to make three new mathemaku with John, for instance--one of which I like close to as much as the best I've done entirely by myself.) I made ten new (single-authored) mathemaku--thus equalling my entire output as a poet in all forms for the past three YEARS! Of course, most of the new works were based on sketches I'd brought with me. Still . . . Very nice Florida wildernessy place, too--with a particularly good beach for swimmers and sun-bathers nearby. The center has no advertising budget, so if anyone has any ideas as to how to give it free advertising, please let Rachel Ward at the above URL know. Rachel is also looking for master-artist recommendations. Master-artists get a stipend and lots else. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:52:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Re: Boring 4 boring fore bore forbear In-Reply-To: <20010618142936.86176.qmail@web10808.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii That then asks, what is poetry? What do we mean by poetry? I think the answer to this depends on the direction in which we read/some psycho-bio readings on why one reads poetry: READING 'POETRY' THAT LEADS TO GREATER UNDERSTANDING AND/OR TO TRUTH: 1. Morphous fluid sensory experience like phermone rush experienced by homoeostatic system (consciousness for ex.) 2. The morphous fluid sensory experience abstracted to precept. 3. Precept abstracted to sound/word, "phermone rush" or "crush" or "in love" etc. 4. Collection of sounds arranged in time to represent experience. "I felt a phermone rush, an in love crush, an etc blush" 5. Emotion abstracted, arranged; while ambiguity contained so the experience can be imagined as uncontradictory, and reality not fluid but stable via poem. 6. Homeostatic system has abstracted the disruption, controlled it, reduced its power. Fluidity of existence made to seem solid ala experience boxed in words and stacked in sentences and stored in paragraphs/stanzas. 7. Sense in understanding, truth. READING 'POETRY' THAT LEADS TO LESS UNDERSTANDING AND/OR TO TOO: 1. Homeostatic system contains abstracted disruptions, experience interpreted through language, consciousness controlled and reduced and housed. Fluidity of existence seems solid. 2. Homeostatic system experiences words placed into off-kilter contexts so that the abstracted disruptions, the seemingly solid perceptions reliquify via contradictions and unresolvables in relationships between parts. There is no room in which the boxes are, the boxes are not on top of each other/their relationship to each other is what?, and there are no walls to boxes, and whatever is in them spills out. 3. The contradictions and unresolvables loosen the denotations and connotations associated with sounds, words experienced as sound and rhythm. Sound and rhythm spill out. This is all. No essential thing inside, just a wave. 4. Sound and rhythm experienced as morphous fluid sensory experience, sound wave registered in way similar to waves of sea or birdcall in prewaking hours. 5. Other rooms lose the lines and angles that designate walls, boxes begin to fall off stacks, relationship between consciousness and outside world less mitigated by abstractions. 6. Break in homeostasis. 7. Sense in sensation sense elation not since nonsense. This is my most re: sent mod hell for thanking a bout, 'it'. Heidi Peppermint --- michael amberwind wrote: > > Michael > > > > Answer to your question: Is pleasure is the > > *only* reason & the *only* cause > > for doing *anything*? I would not be so sure. > > i'm not sure either - it may be possible that > there are individuals who do not seek pleasure > but pain, or its equivelant - i've simply never > met them > > > > My little twelve step program for withdrawing > > from the dimension of pleasure > > isn't necessarily a confession of my "self" > > though some things may be > > nominally true about my nominal little self. > > these 12 reasons are reasons > > anyone could have given for doing anything. > > these are just some of the > > things in this world that motivate people to do > > things. motivations quite > > possibly are not all towards pleasure, and > > motivations are not necessarily > > the substratum for activity. i cannot say for > > sure that you are wrong, i > > cannot say that every action, every effort does > > not reduce to > > pleasure-seeking with any certainty, but i sure > > have my doubts you can know > > that it does. besides, that would make > > "pleasure-seeking" a sort of > > tautological theory of behavior. > > > > weird thing is, i trust language on a certain > > level. it can tell us things, > > perhaps false things, but reasons enough for > > speculating on the possibility > > that we are not all so fundamentally > > egocentric, where we are not something > > like mystical acorns lodged deep within our > > bodies or spirits, etc. what > > self is, is and will likely remain a mystery. > > that i would agree to - we are certainly > mysterious being in a mysterious world - so then > why *trust* the self that creates language? > > > and, well, some people who are miserable in > > this world do read poetry, > > people with f'ed up reasons of all sorts, or > > people with things beyond their > > control (or some combination of both). it > > happens on this planet, or at > > least I believe so. > > i am not so willing to relieve people of the > responsibility for even their smallest acts, > including (perhaps esp.) the reading and writing > of poetry - while we are all "f'ed up", our > reasons or excuses depending on yr bent or mood - > i've never actually seen anyone forced to read > poetry - even in school i often made the choice > simply to *not* do the reading that was required > of me, preferring to follow my own predilictions > -for this i was rewarded with bad marks, which > closed many avenues and opportunities, and opened > up others - this was, for lack of a better term, > a choice > > on my planet, people make those > > > > you also said: "everything we do is based on > > some > > > prior condition or concept of self" > > > > whoa. how can you be so sure? i don't think > > you can be so sure. though i > > guess it's possible you are. > > it is not to hard to see that everything an > individual does is based on some notion of their > self perception - the field of psychology is > largely devoted to viewing the self in a more > healthy light so that one's actions might be > altered > > poetry too is based on both previous conditions > (the writer's state of mind - literary influences > - cultural influences - ad infinitum) > and the poets concept of self > > i would argue that there is nothing in the > universe that does not arise from previous > conditions - time is real, physics tells us this > > > > i agree with your comment about positing an > > unconscious mind... change that > > to "body". > > perhaps a new word needs to be coined - the > buddhists are much better at this game > > > i wrote the following last night, a sort of > > obvious joke on the surface (if > > you dig philosophy, & I believe you do) but > > then a not so obvious joke > > underneath. things can get complicated > > quickly, and then they get sort of > > strange, into a world without answers. it's > > based on some very excellent > > graffiti i saw last night that said, > > "everything you know is wrong." i > > laughed at it, but then i don't believe we can > > know we know, and so on.... > > "everything you know is wrong" creates some > paradoxes (presumably suitable for 1st year > Philosophy students and the like) > > personally i like the title of Robert Anton > Wilson's film script for an unmade film "Reality > is What You Can Get Away With" > > > > justified true belief > > > > is knowledge > > > > > > some of the things you know > > > > are wrong > > > > > > > > after all, at the end of your post, i think > > what we believe is not that far > > apart. i don't think you're just aware of your > > uncertainties. after all as > > you mention a gestalt can be made of many > > things into one thing, hence the > > possibility of all things boiling down to > > pleasure-seeking. yet you > > again - i wonder if another term other than > "pleasure" might be necessary - one that includes > the drive towards wholeness implicit in order - > and entropy > > > acknowledge something that you agree with about > > what i wrote those possibly > > many things forming the gestalt. the > > uncertainty itself is a sign. > > > > thanks for your sincerity michael. > > > > best, > > > > Patrick > > > > > ===== > ...I am a real poet. My poem > is finished and I haven't mentioned > orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call > it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery > I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. > [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. > http://buzz.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:47:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Bassford Subject: Exoterica/The House of Pernod MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This Thursday, June 21st, RICK PERNOD joins IRA COHEN, CRISTIN APTOWICZ, TOM OBRZUT, and JACKIE SHEELER in a party/reading to launch Danny Shot's LONG SHOT #24 magazine at The Cornelia St. Cafe, 29 Cornelia St. between Bleeker and W.4th, at 6 p.m. $6 admission includes complimentary drink. Pick up a copy of the latest New Orleans Review, which opens with 2 Pernod poems- Vladimir's Daughter, and Chinese Box- both big hits on The House Of Pernod CD and favorites for House fans... And House fans and friends should hold Monday, July 2nd, to come see The House rock bar 13's Louder Jam...more on that next week... Exoterica...we'll be spreading the word...for info respond here... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:50:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lungfull@RCN.COM Subject: Lorber/Levitsky/Owen this Sunday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What did you do on your summer vacation? Perhaps on this the first weekend of the new season you will have joined Brendan Lorber Rachel Levitsky & Maureen Owen Sunday 24 June at 6:00pm at the swank & luxuriously air-conditioned Cornelia Street Caf=E9 29 Cornelia Street betw. Bleeker & West 4th Street Your host for the evening is Donna Cartelli The $6 admission gets you a nice free drink. Here, for you, some bios lifted directly from sundry sites: Maureen Owen's Selected Poems: American Rush is just out from Talisman House Publishers following her eighth book of poems, Untapped Maps from Potes and Poets Press. A co-director/coordinator at the St. Mark's Poetry Project for several years, she has taught workshops in poetry and book production. Her press, Telephone Books, includes over 30 book titles to date and 19 issues of Telephone Magazine. Her title AE (Amelia Earhart) was a recipient of the prestigious Before Columbus American Book Award. She has received a Poetry Fellowship from the NEA, awards from The Fund for Poetry, and has most recently been awarded a grant from the Foundation for Contemporary Performance Arts, Inc. Rachel Levitsky lives in Brooklyn and teaches poetry in grade schools. She has run several poetry reading series, and currently curates the Belladonna Series at the Bluestockings Women's Bookstore in New York City. She is the author of four chapbooks, 2(1x1)Portraits (Baksun Books, 1998), The Adventures of Yaya and Grace (Potes & Poets, 1999), Cartographies of Error (Leroy, 1999) and Dearly, (a+bend, 1999). Brendan Lorber lives in the window of his New York garret where he writes poems, essays & his own bio. He's the editor of LUNGFULL! Magazine & cocurator of The Zinc Bar Reading Series. He's the author of The Address Book (Owl Press, 1999), Your Secret (fauxpress.com, 2000) and, with Jen Robinson, Dictionary of Useful Phrases (The Gift, 2000). Hazard Pom Pom will be released by Situations Press later this summer. I do hope you are able to join us. Yours inexorably, Dr. T. Jackson Lorre Der Lauterbrunnen Institute ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:40:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: paula speck Subject: Re: McVeigh's face Comments: To: rovasax@rova.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Rova Saxophone Quartet and all-- I've worked on some death penalty cases, and I'd bet that Timothy McVeigh DID know what that camera was and who he was looking at. A Spanish poet (Antonio Machado, I think) wrote a proverb that goes: "The eye that sees you is an eye/ not because you see it/ but because it sees you." ("El ojo que ves no es/ ojo porque lo ves/ sino ojo porque te ve." The original has rhyme and a lot of close-rhyme). That means on several levels, but the one I see here is this: Timothy McVeigh's eyes were eyes while he was staring out of them; afterwards, just flesh. In his last moments, the only action he was free to choose to take was to stare up at the camera lens; from what we know of his character, he probably WAS expressing hate (many witnesses thought so). That may have been an evil thing to do, but it's consistent with the rest of his life. Anyway, I think it would have been wrong to deny him that last choice after taking away all other choices. Also, a better choice (if he made it) than "Invictus"--a whiny adolescent poem if there ever was one. Paula S. (Lurker who couldn't resist replying to this one) >From: Rova Saxophone Quartet >Reply-To: rovasax@rova.org >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: McVeigh's face >Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:58:42 -0700 > >Dodie > >I was struck by the news report lead sentence which read something >like "Timothy McVeigh died today unknowingling staring into the eyes >of OK City bombing survivors who watched through a hidden camera >mounted in the ceiling..." > >how do they know it was "unknowingly?" > >and the strange dissatisfaction engendered by this -- that at the end >he got to stare them in the face but they werent able to return the >stare -- thus it must have been "unknowingly" -- and an odd parallel >to the act he committed: having offed 150+ people without looking any >of them in the eye, the ultimate act of cowardice, he wd be offed by >the will of the masses w/out any of them looking him in the eye... > >hence the fascination w/ his face... the need to draw some kind of >relief from that... the utter inability to do so. > >DC > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Dodie Bellamy >Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:51 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: McVeigh's face > > >Hi All, > >Kevin (Killian) and I were in Indiana when Timothy McVeigh was >executed. We were staying at my mother's house, where, if one got up >early one was forcefed incendiary talk-radio. Imagine making your >morning coffee to the voice of Dr. Laura. I usually skirted the >issue by sleeping until 10, when Martha Stewart was on TV and the >radio was turned off. Coffee with Martha was fine, learning how to >make handbags decorated with the impressions of weeds dipped in >paint, etc. > >But, we were flying back to SF the morning of McVeigh's execution, >and thus, the talk-radio was on. It was mostly pro-execution. One >Chicago broadcaster was actually calling McVeigh the McMurderer. > >So, when I got back, I read the online reportage in the New York >Times, and there was a very interesting passage about people >struggling to interpret McVeigh's face as he was dying. It reads >like the beginning of a Roland Barthes essay: > > >As the witnesses to the execution spoke through the day, their > >jarringly different descriptions offered a lucid but unexplored > >commentary about the power of the camera. The two network > >journalists chosen by lottery to watch, Byron Pitts of CBS and > >Shepard Smith of the Fox News Channel, were careful not to read > >anything into Mr. McVeigh's expression. Mr. Smith was especially > >nuanced in reporting that Mr. McVeigh's skin had turned yellow and > >that he had seemed to die painlessly; yet Mr. Smith was rare in > >remaining so astutely aware that each witness would read the event > >differently. As Paul Howell, whose daughter died in the bombing and > >who was also a witness, said, "We didn't get anything from his face." > > > >But many family members who watched on closed circuit television in > >Oklahoma City saw something else. After seeing images from a > >stationary camera above Mr. McVeigh that stared into his face, they > >said things like "We saw hatred" and "It was like I was looking at > >the face of evil." > > > >That lesson about the camera seemed willfully lost on the > >commentators, even when they noticed it. On the Fox News Channel, > >John Gibson rhetorically jumped up and down after a woman who had > >watched on closed circuit said it was "a slap in the face" when Mr. > >McVeigh turned his head away. Mr. Gibson, inflammatory as usual, > >didn't spend time wondering whether the people watching thousands of > >miles away were imposing ideas on an image they could not truly come > >close to. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:42:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: <3B2E3B70.11773.5EB80B6@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Total Eclipse, directed by Polish director Agnieszka Holland, is about the relationship of Rimbaud and Verlaine. Leonardo diCaprio as Rimbaud, and David Thewlis as Verlaine. charles At 05:33 PM 6/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: >What comes to mind: > > Tom & Viv (Eliot. Hated it) > Barfly (kinda about Bukowski. Liked it) > Poetic Justice (not really about a poet but it does include some >verse by Maya Angelou. Hated it) > Mrs. Parker and the Viscious Circle (Dorothy et al. Liked it) > Henry and June (on Miller & Nin, kinda fun, I thought) > Il Postino (Neruda. Skiped it) > >--JGallaher >----------------------- >For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles >that portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or >even minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th >century poets. Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! > >Thom Swiss >thomas.swiss@drake.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:47:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you can still get your hands on it, Witz no. 6.1 (Spring 1998) has a terrific and very humorous piece by Gilbert Alter-Gilbert on "literary portraits in the movies." As I recall, it takes the form of a catalog of poetry-related movies from 1990 to 1998, by title, with a few lines on each. To contact Christopher Reiner at Witz, see the magazines web site, under the Mags section of the Electronic Poetry Center . Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:49:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wallis Leslie Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010619093619.00ab5148@mail.theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii See _Regeneration_ based on a novel by Pat Barker, about Siefried Sassoon going to a mental hospital during World War I to be cured of his observation that the war was an obscenity. Wallis Leslie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:46:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Watkins, William E." Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: <928143068thomas.swiss@drake.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:45 PM 6/17/2001 -0500, you wrote: >For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles that >portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or even >minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th century poets. >Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! > >Thom Swiss >thomas.swiss@drake.edu Didn't Gregory Corso have a bit part in Godfather III? Eddie Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:57:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The "Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg" is another good film/ poet thing to see. Julie Kizershot ---------- >From: Poetics List Administration >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films >Date: Tue, Jun 19, 2001, 10:47 AM > > If you can still get your hands on it, Witz no. 6.1 (Spring 1998) has a > terrific and very humorous piece by Gilbert Alter-Gilbert on "literary > portraits in the movies." As I recall, it takes the form of a catalog of > poetry-related movies from 1990 to 1998, by title, with a few lines on each. > > To contact Christopher Reiner at Witz, see the magazines web site, under > the Mags section of the Electronic Poetry Center . > > Christopher W. Alexander > poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:51:52 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mariana Ruiz Firmat Subject: Re: if I spoke too quickly ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed To John and Chris Thank you both for being dedicated and thoughtful poets and for being real allies. It's important to call people out and ask them to own and back up their sentiments. It should be done more in the non-cyber world. Mariana >From: John Coletti >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: if I spoke too quickly ... >Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:28:23 -0400 > >It is interesting to me that the most blatant thing >you found in either Funkhouser's or Nudel's email >was this misuse of Dr. Williams' language. >I find it very peculiar that this annoyed you as >much as it did. And in the effort of defending >Nudel. Why is that? Why did this bother you so much >and all the other vitreol not at all? > >John > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Geoffrey Gatza >Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 5:25 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: if I spoke too quickly ... > > > Did I miss a slur??? Let me go back and look. I mostly like his >rantings as >its fun. But I in no way uphold bullshit. I did witness Chris blatantly >misuse WCW's red wheel barrow to defend his argument for something or >another. It came from a direct misunderstanding of general poetic >knowledge >which is directly responsible for the art he creates. This just irked me >and >to see his quick response in another form of what I perceived as another >form of snuffing out creativity - well I just shot back. I should have >looked further into what m&r had to say. Thanks for pointing out racism, >which I will never uphold as art! > > > >Geoffrey Gatza >editor BlazeVOX2k1 >http://vorplesword.com/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: lisa jarnot [mailto:jarnot@pipeline.com] >Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:47 AM >To: ggatza@daemen.edu >Subject: > >geoffrey! > >mr. funkhouser is right--- mr. nudel is a racist. > >(actually funkhouser is an old friend of mine. he's very legit.) > >more soon. > >x, >L _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:28:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Another Anti-Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who made it out to the first Anti-Reading in April. Please join Loudmouth Collective on Saturday for the second Anti-Reading at Tonic ... For Immediate Release Anti-Reading Tonic (107 Norfolk Street) June 23, 2001 1:30 ? 4:00 pm Free For those that are tired of being read to, Loudmouth Collective presents an anti-reading of new work by Matvei Yankelevich, Joel Schlemowitz & Wanda Phipps, Ryan Haley, James Hoff, Julien Poirier, Filip Marinovic and Ellie Ga, among others. Following the success of the premier anti-reading at Tonic on April 28, Loudmouth Collective is presenting the second installment of this bi-monthly literary carnival. Expect video audio poetry, live typewriter art, concrete poetry, paperless books, poetry film and flash paper fiction. By providing a bi-monthly forum for the experimental presentation of literature, Loudmouth Collective seeks to re-evaluate the literary reading as it has come to be known today, recasting it as something more than an exercise to sell books. The anti-reading couples authors with the public through intermedia encounters, providing the basis for an ongoing dialogue between the writer and reader. Loudmouth Collective is a young, Brooklyn-based press dedicated to portable fiction and abstract poetry, cultural criticism and sound art. -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:29:44 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: Baraka query MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey there. Could anybody point me to a good, brief account of Amiri Baraka's moment-of-transition from New American Poet to Black Arts Poet? (I know, I know, the road to Damascus conversion narrative is a bit too simple: I'm looking for an essay or chapter that will complicate it for me). Thanks, Bob Archambeau P.S. Samizdat #7 (Rothenberg/Joris) is officially sold out -- apologies to those who've been asking for copies. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:31:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit antonin artaud acted in many films--such as dreyer's "passion of Joan of arc" and Abel gance's "napoleon" Cocteau made two great films about poets--"orpheus" and "blood of a poet" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:57:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: The D'oh of Homer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii unless i am mistaken the word being added is "duh" which is *not* a Simpsons word - i recall it being used as a term denoting a statement so obvious that to suggest otherwise would be stupid - i remember using it as a child long before the Simpsons e.g. Person #1: You know, the people on the UB Mailing List are the most attractive and intelligent individuals to ever make use of the internet. Person #2: Duh! Homer's famous "d'oh" (either dough or duh - ough) always denoted where Homer made some particularily stupid mistake, or an accident i suspect that the television series would need to be off the air and for "d'oh" to continued to be in the common lexicon for a period after it for the OED to pick it up - otherwise it might simply be a "fad" word - unless they include those as well? i am not familiar with the OED rules for inclusion i would be all for it - as well as adding the word "Homer" as a synonym for a really stupid error as in "He pulled a Homer." i suspect including "The Bartman" might be a little much **************************************** >Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:02:36 -0700 >From: peter culley >Subject: homer makes the oed >The circle of life is complete; the cosmic dance >unfolds--Homer Simpson = >enters the OED. >http://www.oed.com/public/news/01064.htm#message ------------------------------ ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:06:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: FW: new In-Reply-To: <200106191807.OAA21131@bell.covesoft.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Deron has asked me to pass this along... -Aaron ---------- From: Deron Bauman Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:14:12 -0500 To: subscribe@elimae.com Subject: new announcements for Norman Lock and Bryce Newhart spotlight on M Sarki fiction by David Ohle poem by Cooper Esteban fiction by Dennis Must poem by Kathryn Rantala review of Jorge Luis Borges http://www.elimae.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:17:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.1.20010619123120.00a62c90@mail.wistar.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >At 12:45 PM 6/17/2001 -0500, you wrote: >>For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles that >>portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or even >>minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th century poets. >>Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! >> >>Thom Swiss >>thomas.swiss@drake.edu > > > >Didn't Gregory Corso have a bit part in Godfather III? > >Eddie Watkins "Who Killed Kerouac?" is, I think, the title of a movie I saw. In it, Gregory says "Who names a generation after four people?" -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:32:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Dunning langpo In-Reply-To: <121.7c6b12.285ffba1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII also samba. saudade is muy triste, but also very beautiful. Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 06/18/2001 5:53:34 PM, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG writes: > > << I frankly do not see how sorrow could be > > pleasurable. That just makes no sense. >> > > Agree or disagree, but it has been said that one of Bob Dylan's greatest > revelations was that sorrow can be beautiful. Is there pleasure in beauty, > or rather in the seemingly felt perception of it? Best, Bill > > William James Austin.com > Koja Press.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:39:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/19/2001 12:23:56 PM, Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU writes: << What comes to mind: Tom & Viv (Eliot. Hated it) Barfly (kinda about Bukowski. Liked it) Poetic Justice (not really about a poet but it does include some verse by Maya Angelou. Hated it) Mrs. Parker and the Viscious Circle (Dorothy et al. Liked it) Henry and June (on Miller & Nin, kinda fun, I thought) Il Postino (Neruda. Skiped it) --JGallaher ----------------------- For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles that portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or even minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th century poets. Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! Thom Swiss thomas.swiss@drake.edu >> Total Eclipse (Rimbaud and Verlaine -- AWFUL) The Basketball Diaries (Jim Carroll -- not awful, but not good either) Gothic (Shelley and Byron -- AWFUL) There have also been a couple about Beat poets that changed the names to protect the innocent. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:39:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: Baraka query Comments: To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu In-Reply-To: <3B2F8C09.B3F6DD05@lfc.edu> from "Robert Archambeau" at Jun 19, 2001 12:29:44 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Baraka chapters in Mackey's DISCREPANT ENGAGEMENT are a good place to start. And Lorenzo Thomas's new EXTRAORDINARY MEASURES has some very interesting things to say about the USE of Black Mountain poetics by Black Arts poets (as oppsoed to a repudiation). -Mike. According to Robert Archambeau: > > Hey there. > > Could anybody point me to a good, brief account of Amiri Baraka's > moment-of-transition from New American Poet to Black Arts Poet? (I > know, I know, the road to Damascus conversion narrative is a bit too > simple: I'm looking for an essay or chapter that will complicate it for > me). > > Thanks, > > Bob Archambeau > > > > P.S. Samizdat #7 (Rothenberg/Joris) is officially sold out -- apologies > to those who've been asking for copies. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:52:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Re: Baraka query In-Reply-To: <200106191839.OAA20601@dept.english.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII See Werner Sollor's _Amiri Baraka; the Quest for a Populist Modernism_. New York: Columbia University Press, 1978. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:56:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: peter culley Subject: Re: The D'oh of Homer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It really is the Homer doh! (exclamation mark incl.)check the June 2001 OED online update. The picture will probably have to wait for the next edition of the Random House unabridged. ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael amberwind" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:57 AM Subject: Re: The D'oh of Homer > unless i am mistaken the word being added is > "duh" which is *not* a Simpsons word - i recall > it being used as a term denoting a statement so > obvious that to suggest otherwise would be stupid > - i remember using it as a child long before the > Simpsons > > e.g. > > Person #1: You know, the people on the UB Mailing > List are the most attractive and intelligent > individuals to ever make use of the internet. > > Person #2: Duh! > > Homer's famous "d'oh" (either dough or duh - > ough) always denoted where Homer made some > particularily stupid mistake, or an accident > > i suspect that the television series would need > to be off the air and for "d'oh" to continued to > be in the common lexicon for a period after it > for the OED to pick it up - otherwise it might > simply be a "fad" word - unless they include > those as well? i am not familiar with the OED > rules for inclusion > > i would be all for it - as well as adding the > word "Homer" as a synonym for a really stupid > error as in > > "He pulled a Homer." > > i suspect including "The Bartman" might be a > little much > > **************************************** > > >Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:02:36 -0700 > >From: peter culley > >Subject: homer makes the oed > > >The circle of life is complete; the cosmic dance > >unfolds--Homer Simpson = > >enters the OED. > > >http://www.oed.com/public/news/01064.htm#message > > ------------------------------ > > ===== > ...I am a real poet. My poem > is finished and I haven't mentioned > orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call > it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery > I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. > [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. > http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:00:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/19/2001 2:22:32 PM, bowering@SFU.CA writes: << "Who Killed Kerouac?" is, I think, the title of a movie I saw. In it, Gregory says "Who names a generation after four people?" -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 >> Unfortunately for Gregory, the generation was, for a long time, named after three people. His own status was certainly "ify." As his scenes in "The Source" surely indicate, he was more than a little pissed off about this (his complaint about not being included in a Jeopardy answer/question is actually quite funny in a pitiful sort of way). Thankfully Corso is now getting more of his due, though it has taken his death to stir the embers (not exactly an uncommon impetus within literary governments). I respect a good deal of what Corso accomplished on the page, and am delighted to see him quoted once again. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:17:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Potter Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: <6b.15ffc7b0.2860f665@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Pull My Daisy (starring Ginsberg, Kerouac and Corso as Groucho, Harpo and Chico. Forget the name of the guy who plays Zeppo. Plenty of fun!) Naked Lunch (depicting Burroughs, Jane and Paul Bowles, Ginsberg, Keroauc etc. at play in interzone.) Heartburn (I think that's the title, about Kerouac love-triangle with Neal and Carolyn Cassady.) Garcia Lorca (about a guy who idolized Lorca as a boy returning to Spain to find the truth about his murder. Great flick!) Hal Hartley put out a great movie a coupla years back about the lives of two fictional poets that probably doesn't exactly fit your needs but is definitely worth watching for your own pleasure. Think the title is Simon Fool. on 6/19/01 11:39 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM at Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 06/19/2001 12:23:56 PM, Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU writes: > > << What comes to mind: > > Tom & Viv (Eliot. Hated it) > Barfly (kinda about Bukowski. Liked it) > Poetic Justice (not really about a poet but it does include some > verse by Maya Angelou. Hated it) > Mrs. Parker and the Viscious Circle (Dorothy et al. Liked it) > Henry and June (on Miller & Nin, kinda fun, I thought) > Il Postino (Neruda. Skiped it) > > --JGallaher > ----------------------- > For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles > that portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or > even minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th > century poets. Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! > > Thom Swiss > thomas.swiss@drake.edu >>> > > Total Eclipse (Rimbaud and Verlaine -- AWFUL) > The Basketball Diaries (Jim Carroll -- not awful, but not good either) > Gothic (Shelley and Byron -- AWFUL) > > There have also been a couple about Beat poets that changed the names to > protect the innocent. Best, Bill > > William James Austin.com > Koja Press.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:50:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Said: <> Reply: Oh yeah, I saw that as well. A very odd little thing. I think it was "Henry Fool". --JGallaher ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:49:40 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeff Derksen Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: <200106191657.JAA02834@falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a canadian film board production that has Rip Torn as Whitman! jd Beautiful Dreamers 1990, 105 min 00 sec This film can be viewed on site at the Cin=E9roboth=E8que= in Montreal Abstract The superintendent of the London insane asylum, Dr. Maurice Bucke, despairs of the treatment methods in use during the Victorian era, which consist essentially of restraint and electroshock. At a conference in Philadelphia, he makes the acquaintance of poet Walt Whitman. This meeting will radically change his life, and that of his wife and patients. Whitman, who travels to London at Bucke's invitation, has avant-garde ideas about mental illness, sexuality, the emotions and life in general--ideas that are profoundly humanistic and enlightened. This film is based on historical events. Jeff Derksen Lorenz Mandl Gasse 33/2 A-1160 Vienna Austria p/f 43.1.49.28.16= 0 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:31:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Foster, others, new from Spuyten Duyvil Press In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Dear Poetics Folks, Here are some brand spankin new titles from Spuyten Duyvil Press! They're running a special buy one get one free right now, so you might want to check it out. (I tried to kinda hide the shameless self-promotion aspect . . .) Order any SD title from the online catalog and choose one title free! http://www.spuytenduyvil.net/ The Angelus Clock, Edward Foster 100 pages $12.00 =93Let no one seek [in The Understanding] a secure sense of self. . . . To have read these poems is to have entered another self, to have felt the vital force.=94 =97David Landrey, =93Afterword=94 Gentlemen in Turbans, Ladies in Cauls John Gallaher Winner of the 2000 Spuyten Duyvil Book Award Michael Heller, Judge $12.00 The technique employed here is not so much presenting the reflected world in its shard-like state, but a dogged attempt at saying the world as directly and wholly as possible. By neither pretending wholeness, nor embracing the fragmented language as if it were good enough, John Gallaher is producing a powerful new kind of poem. =97Bin Ramke Are Not Our Lowing Heifers Sleeker Than Night- Swollen Mushrooms? Nada Gordon 120 pages $12.00 She is the author of More Hungry (Voces Puerulae, 1985), Rodomontade (e.g.,1985), Lip (Voces Puerulae, 1988), Koi Maneuver (1990), Anime (Voces Puerulae, 2000), Foriegnn Bodie (Detour, forthcoming), and Correspondence (with Gary Sullivan, Faux Press, forthcoming). Samples of Nada's work appear on her website at www.jps.net/nada/nadaroom. The Open Vault Stephen Sartarelli $12.00 In an era of mawkish kitsch on the one hand and mannerist grammar on the other, Sartarelli steps in with a luminous poetry at once intelligent, exigent, compacted and of a rare inexhaustibility. In these lyrics something philosophical, narrative and yet light withal takes its place among the new definitions of poetry: =93and by some single spirit raging in wild unison.=94 =97David Shapiro ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:35:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Stroffolino, others, new from SD In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Poetics folks, here's the rest of the Summer 2001 Spuyten Duyvil new titles list. If you order any SD title from the online catalog you get to choose one title free! http://www.spuytenduyvil.net/ Black Lace Barbara Henning 100 pages $12.00 Barbara Henning=92s Black Lace is clearly written by a poet. But its prose is straight as an arrow. As third person narrator and I, Henning pins the cut-loose characters of this sparse novel against a gray Detroit dropcloth, connecting them through soul sickness, helplessness, and a scary, uncontrolled eroticism. =97Charlotte Carter Kaleidoscope 1969 Joanna Gunderson 79 pages $12.00 Kaleidoscope 1969 is about people in a time of revolution. It is non linear, inspired by a photo of a large family seen at the Museum of Modern Art =93taken from no particular place at no particular time.=94 Fragments from underground cinema of the 60's as well as that of the Russian Revolution run through it. Spin Cycle Chris Stroffolino 287 pages $16.00 Chris Stroffolino=92s amazing Spin Cycle is written from the inside out. It engages the world of contemporary avant-garde poetry as well as clear ways that Shakespeare can speak in and to that world; it engages an interest in post-Enlightenment theories of reading as well as trends in current academic criticism; and it takes these engagements through Stroffolino=92s own poetic insides, demonstrating a strong belief in the power of experimental literary language and how we read it. =97Lisa Samuels The Poet Basil King 209 pages $14.00 King=92s art can be viewed on the following sites: www.poetrypress.com/avec (scroll to the bottom of the page); www.spuytenduyvil.net (click on Authors, Basil King); http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/lighthom.htm (forthcoming) and in Jacket magazine #12 at http://www.jacket.zip.com./ Little Tales of Family & War Martha King 100 pages $12.00 These are more than domestic tales, they give a spinning feel to the cultural assumptions that are opened like a papaya to reveal a possibly menacing clutch of squishy black seeds. =97Stacey's The Reading form ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:09:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - hello, susan graham hello from susan graham hello, susan graham susan graham says, hello, how are you, how are you feeling susan graham, i am feeling poorly i'm not quite so spry as i used to be i wish when i was young i knew what i know now why is youth wasted on the young hello, from susan graham i am feeling poorly i'm not so young as i used to be my minds as good as ever i can't do the things i used to do i am feeling poorly , susan gram _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:24:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Potter Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: <3B2F66BF.32636.A7CD771@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit That's right, Henry Fool. I think the other main character is named Simon Grim or something like that. spotter on 6/19/01 12:50 PM, J Gallaher at Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU wrote: > Said: > > < lives of two fictional poets that probably doesn't exactly fit your needs > but is definitely worth watching for your own pleasure. Think the > title is Simon Fool.>> > > Reply: > > Oh yeah, I saw that as well. A very odd little thing. I think it was > "Henry Fool". > > --JGallaher > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:07:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r..po movies we\'d pay $$$ to see... ....TWINS...the Marg Perloff/Helen Vendler story..a remake of the Danny De Vito & Arnold Scwarz. vehicle...two twins separated at birth reunite to have adventures..with a script by Paul Auster...both roles played by Sophie Calle.. ....THE NIKKI GIOVANNI STORY...starring Jayne Cortez written by Sonia Sanchez..THE JAYNE CORTEZ STORY...starring Sonia Sanchez written by Nikki Giovanni...THE SONIA SANCHEZ STORY...young black girl overcomes obstacles...rises to international stardom...Amiri Baraka simultaneously plays himself, the young Le Roi Jones & Ike Turner...casting, publicity, catering by.... ....IT'S A WONDERFUL KNIFE...Ron Padgett as Jimmi Stewart...Teddy Berrigan as the older bro..Frank O'Hara as the descending angel...and Kenneth Koch as the wheel-chaired banker..the ingenue role is still on the casting couch...the good son takes over the family biz...and lives to become a Full Prof... ....THELMA AND LOUISE...starring Eileen Myles & Alice Notley...2 babes hard exit a po workshop and hit the road...Anselm Berrigan doctored the Sam Shepard script...haunting incidental mood music by Laurie Anderson.. ....RED RIVER...with Bob Creeley and Charlie Olson recreating the paternal tension drive..cameo range appearances by Joel O...Paul B...Edward D...with 1000's of anon. female extras...manhood in the old testosterone West or how far to black mntn... ...TO BE OR NOT TO BE....Charles Bernstein as the befuddled egotist...Susan Howe as his ditzy but gorgeous wife...Ron Silliman as the dashing hero aviator...in this version the text is scripted by randomly excising most of the e's from a random Deridda text... ....THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME..the DRn story..with Lewis Warsh as the eponoymous hero...Anne Waldmann as the gypsy dancer...St Mark's as Notre Dame..with a script by Reed Bye..and the avenging rabble by the Poetics List... slow rain sun. ny DRn.. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:27:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Basic Webdesign & Other Courses : New websites from trAce : deadline for frAme 6 : MiMe (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:37:57 +0000 From: trace@ntu.ac.uk Subject: Basic Webdesign & Other Courses : New websites from trAce : deadline for frAme 6 : MiMe Hi trAce would like to inform you of a couple of new websites we've recently l= aunched, the deadline for submitting writing to our ejournal frAme6, and a = great new course now available from the Writing School starting 16th July. ***Basic Website Design for Writers/Artists: starts 16th July A course designed for beginners: Basic Website Design for Writers/Artists will guide students step by step through the maze of Hypertext Markup Language, webpage design, and going online. Although the course is geared for absolute beginners, it will stress creativity and experimentation. The course will offer extended exercises for those students who feel comfortable tinkering with the basic material. The tutor, Randy Adams, is a journalist, writer and Web artist from Canada. He has published a non-fiction book, poetry and articles. He was the first writer/artist to be awarded a trAce Writer's Studio. Other courses on offer in July include scriptwriting, novels, poetry, writing for children, writing about families and gardens, and more Information about all courses starting July 16th at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/ ***trAce is delighted to be hosting the website of the widely-published and award-winning poet Alison Brackenbury. Alison's site has new poems, recently included in major poetry magazines, at the heart of her site. There are also details of her prize-winning poetry collections, and links enabling the visitor to buy them online. Background information is given on the poet's life, availability for readings,critical writing about her, awards, anthologies, broadcasts, and newspaper and magazine publication. There are links to a variety of lively online poetry magazines, and to poetry sites, and an email form to contact Alison directly. http://www.alisonbrackenbury.co.uk trAce offers custom website building services and web hosting at a variety of competitive rates depending on the kind of site you need. Suitable for personal sites, arts organisations, festivals and businesses. Contact helen.whitehead@ntu.ac.uk to discuss your requirements. ***The deadline for submitting contributions for frAme6, on the theme Net : Spirit, is 1st July. Is there a new kind of spirituality happening out on the Net? Do you get the sense you're connecting with something greater than yourself? Have you ever meditated online? Does code have a zen all of its own? What are the new spiritual patterns, symbols, and icons of cyberspace? Why all these coincidences, mindmelds, serendipities and downright unrealities? Is this religion? Who are we online? What do multiple identities do to your head? What does it all mean? http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/news/article.cfm?news=3D144 ***More stories added to Migrating Memories website What is most precious to you when you have to leave your country? What make= s your memories? It could be an object, a fragrance, a poem or a song, or p= erhaps the way the sky looks or the wind feels. Migrating Memories, a Europ= ean Culture 2000-funded project, works with newly-settled people in Malm=F6= (Sweden), Tampere (Finland) and Nottingham (England) to address the import= ance of memory. New pictures, stories -- and translations of stories -- hav= e been added. The programme for the INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON MEMORY, Mal= mo, Sweden, 12-13 September 2001, has now been added. You are invited to le= ave a comment in the guestbook. http://www.migratingmemories.net Best regards Helen Whitehead Website editor trAce Online Writing School trAce Online Writing Centre The Nottingham Trent University, Clifton Lane, Clifton, Nottingham NG11 8NS= , England Tel: +44 (0)115 848 6360 Fax: +44 (0)115 848 6364 You have been sent this email because you joined trAce. If you would like to be removed from our database and receive no more mailings, please send an email to trace@ntu.ac.uk with the subject Remove Register ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:29:48 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: list stats "Father forgive me..." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott & The List & Wystan. To be fair...now be fair...(be fair Dud!)...both wystan and I were a bit tongue in cheek...actually the scene in NZ as descibed by me is obviously more exstensive...I dont think we should "poor old" wystan wystan. I was making a bit of a joke about the usual cliches one hears: hence the Wellington versus Auckland thing. A bit of a simplistic summary by me but the kind of thing one hears eg your friend the editor of NZ Poetry rages about "academics"....but to be fair (!) to Alistair he HAS published two of my poems. Hey, wystan! Probably you're right about the energy levels, and I confess, I surrender, I AM honarary British! All along! My little dream of England (see in next post my "poem" (or when I get around to it ny "BEGIN AGAIN" thing that the notorious Scott published in his SALT mag.... which shows my feeling in this regard))....I am a traitor...fortunately we are not at war:.. ..to diverge I have often felt that NZ should be towed to Australia and appended to that vast austere and wonderful land... Of course things are better......there are a lot of good poets and you are one of the best readers as well as I have three of your books and I like very much things you have written eg on "happennings" and so on as well as .... well the reality is that I owe the Auckland University English department a lot and in fact it was there that the lecturers for the quite excellent "American Poetry" included Wystan Curnow, Roger Horrocks, Murray Edmond, Michelle Leggott and Alan Loney was there: all of them are excellent writers who inspired me on that course. To the List: Wystan is bringing out a new book...which is called "From the Art Hotel" and is reading at Auckland Wed 6 pm Auckland Art Gallery auditorium Auckland on the 27th of June..Wystan can supply the other details. Juliana Spahr was very good on the first night with a poem that integrated or contrasted detailed scientific references to blood type constitution etc with "human" statements...and she has a fascinating poem in the mag she co-edits (is it CHAIN?) which uses the image or correlative of the struggle beween a tarantula and a wasp as indicative or illuminating of human struggle conflict power relations etc Spahr was the first reader in the series organised by Wystan and Leigh Davis. The second reader was Ian Wedde who was interesting...but without seeing his new book I cant comment on where he's "at" at present....he has taken to writing "trivia" (albeit enlightened and "meaningful trivia) apparently in the manner of or after Horace. Charles Bernstein is to be beamed in like Scotty (not Scotty Hamilton) on the 11th of July which proves the omnipotence of that latter personage...so no the scene is better than I painted of course but some things i'll let to stet. Everyone's list would be unique..a lot would come from the Anthology of NZ Poetry...whichever was the last. a lot are young students and some "on the outside".... Scott...is this something in the latest Brief? My problem with Alan Loney was not his poetry which I feel is always excellent or at least interesting but his editorials were always much of a plaint, a kind of mournful song about being "oppositional" when infact he has had considerable exposure has been published by AUP has published and so on: if he's on the edge then I'm vanishing at light speed...but to be fair again as Peter Cooke says to Dudley Moore re Jane Mansfield in their discussions of "the worst job I ever 'ad".. to be fair it probably doesnt matter...Spicer gets it right: "No one listens to poetry." In the way he's meaning (I think) I think it has to stay that way. Probably my problem with another thing on Alan...or do you mean the previous Brief Scott? ..would be that its been done and its time to introduce new writers. Michael Onslow-Osborne might be an emerging "talent" although I think the most recent poems in Brief were a bit derivative of LangPo writers...altho I confess its hard not to be derivative in some ways of something...but I stick to my list of those writers in SALT such as Michael Arnold, yourself, me, and the others. Jack Ross's book "nights with Giordano Bruno" is a brilliant first book and Leicester Kyle is always challenging...has his own style. My addendum here: I think poets will emerge who are simply unique because they ARE unique (in a sense everyone is) but we need more intense, inspired, passionate and beautiful stuff...maybe something that comes from (maybe it already is) LangPo and so on...eg Kendrick Smithyman's influence versus Baxter's and Alan Curnow'sd and so on and some of the "crazy" British writers eg Prynne etal and even Geoffrey Hill and some of the Australian influences that you know about...obviously poetry and lit is going well here but it needs its resident devil's advocate...that's my story anyway. we are strange and built from fire who stare out side with evil eyes regards to all, Richard Taylor.PS Scott you can do your "rave" about Leigh Davis at this point! I couldnt or just didnt want to fight thru the Auckland traffic to get to it.( his reading)...a man earning about $5000 a year to listen to a man earning probably millions and who extols the wonders of Capitalism and is valorised by Brief!! Supposedly "oppositional"!! But I must "be fair"....... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Hamilton" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 7:12 PM Subject: Re: list stats "Father forgive me..." > What a miserable > > account you give of the NZ > > scene, you traitor! > > wystan > > Poor old Wystan! Might be useful for Richard to frame > a presentation of the 'Language-influenced' curren t > in NZ lit with a discussion of the recent volume of > autobiographical writings by Alan Loney, who probably > counts as the chief 'guru' of the trend. A > repudiation, an extension? Extraordinary, to see such > an elliptical, dour, recalcitrant talent turn suddenly > to the memoir, to the oldest, the most traditional, > genre of all? And to write more poetically than ever!? > Have you read it Richard? > > Cheers > Scott > --- "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" > wrote: > hey, richard, > > who are you calling a 'rather tired old > > guru' of 'language centred' > > poetry?? you watch your mouth, young richard. I > > maybe old, i deny 'guru' as > > would any self-respecting 'language centred' > > person, and i'd match my > > energy levels with yours anyday--if i look tired its > > because i've got less > > than my usual 6 hours sleep. What a miserable > > account you give of the NZ > > scene, you traitor! > > wystan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] > > Sent: Friday, 15 June 2001 1:50 p.m. > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: list stats "Father forgive me..." > > > > > > Aaron etal. Well there are 13 from NZ. New Zealand > > was (and still is > > somewhat) culturally and historically hence somehow > > politically tied to > > Britain and from the sixties or mid fifties a shift > > to the US culture. In > > fact Christchurch is touted as being a more English > > town than any in > > England. Its also a place where people of a certain > > ilk will accuse you of > > being "a bloody pom". The England of my affections > > is, and shall probably > > forever remain, in my imagination: both my parents > > being English. But the > > feeling I get from British or English people is a > > certain acid conservatism: > > mind you these are terrible generalisations...it is > > also the country that > > produced some of the most brilliant thinkers > > innovators and so on. I think > > that the US is so large in size and population that > > that in itself generates > > enthusiasm: the need and the desire to communicate > > (more).....this sort of > > thing can be argued forever. Its strange that a > > highly "progressive" > > country such as the US still has the death penalty, > > but then some of the > > countries that crit the US are a bit dodgy: places > > in the Middle East and > > parts of Europe and India where ...well: they may > > have history, and > > museums... a friend of mine said once: "Euroe is one > > big museum". But the > > numbers. Probably there are fewer magazines and > > outlets in England the UK > > that are not dominated by "the official verse > > culture"...this problem > > happenning in the US but simply because of numbers > > there (albeit a bit > > marginalised) more small mags and more counter > > cultures. It "goes on" you > > know in England but probably the critics there are > > more dismissive of > > "experiment". It pertains here too...Wellington > > being more clustered around > > Victoria University where Bill Manhire (undoubtedly > > a good poet) has his > > "factory" to produce pseudo-modernist Manhire clones > > who specialise oin > > writing boring...well, perhaps I'd better choose > > another term!...terminally > > dull slobber that passes as "fascinating" and "new" > > while Auckland > > University (clustered around a few rather tired old > > gurus of language-centre > > d poetry) are producing ... well at least they are > > encouraging some > > alternative views. Then there was Scott Hamilton's > > SALT that published > > myself, Michael Arnold, Scott himself, Hamish > > Dewe,Leon Mathews, Simon > > Field,Miriam Bellard, Jack Ross, Thorin Kerr, James > > McGoram, Kenn Mitchell > > and Miriiam Bellard to name some in the last issue. > > It was never meant to be > > on going or official. BRIEF which attempts to be > > avant-garde is interesting > > ...edited by John Geraets...but there is not much > > else: a poet called Kapka > > Kassabova was touted about because she was > > attractive and from Romania! She > > was described as young and (implied exotic) but > > writes rather dubious > > stuff.One had to hear how beautiful she was before > > seeing her work!! A > > certain Mark Pirie (whose work is terminally dull) > > sells massively. So - > > apart from SALT - and writers such as myself, Scott > > Hamilton, Hamish > > Dewe,Jack Ross, Michael Arnold and Leon Mathews etc > > and my friend Leicester > > Kyle (whose on his own brilliant "trip") and last > > but most Richard Taylor: > > the lit scene here is pretty dead. > > They keep republishing Allen Curnow - who is > > undoubtedly a great poet - but > > well there's not much else...unlesss you go to the > > pubs and readings where > > sometimes some sparks are seen. But there are > > obviously at least 13 > > (enlightened?) lurkers....out there...as to Britain. > > My mate spent years in > > London and apparently it still shuts down at 11 pm > > like a mausoleum so God > > knows why people go there. My father "escaped" from > > England of the class > > system to make a life in NZ as did my uncle, who > > from owing ten pounds on > > alighting pre the Second WW in this domain, became > > the director manager of a > > large chemical company and very well to do. No hope > > of that in cold old > > England....not the "real" England of my > > immagination. THAT England is MINE. > > I claim it. > > Openness. That's what people lack. Openness and > > friendliness. Be open. > > Anycase 13 and 19 are odd numbers...there's > > something odd about the whole > > thing. Regards, Richard. PS Mind you I keep > > re-watching "84 Charing Cross > > Road" ("Father forgive me....")....so.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "david.bircumshaw" > > > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:07 PM > > Subject: Re: list stats > > > > > > > > > Great Britain 19 > > > > > > > > > > > > This surprises me. > > > > > > > > -Aaron > > > > > > I take it you mean in respect of a little number, > > Aaron. It doesn't > > surprise > > > me. This is still the land of snob-culture, > > repackaged now as chatty > > newgen. > > > The last thing many in Britculture want is > > communication, they thrive on > > > frustrating others. So the general tone of > > literary culture is that of a > > > talking corpse, most of what life there is comes > > from expats from out of > > the > > > sea's ozone haze surprises. > > > > > > Best > > > > > > David Bircumshaw > > > > > > Leicester (UK) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Aaron Belz" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:55 PM > > > Subject: Re: list stats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great Britain 19 > > > > > > > > > > > > This surprises me. > > > > > > > > -Aaron > > > > > > > ===== > For "a ruthless criticism of every existing idea": > THR@LL, NZ's class struggle anarchist paper http://www.freespeech.org/thrall/ > THIRD EYE, a Kiwi lib left project, at http://www.geocities.com/the_third_eye_website/ > and 'REVOLUTION' magazine, a Frankfurt-Christchurch production, http://cantua.canterbury.ac.nz/%7Ejho32/ > > ____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:38:47 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: McVeigh's face MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paula. Good on you. It;s strange, but evil or whatever they call it, always fascinates people. The truth (terrible as it was) of what McVeigh did gets forgotten...and people remember the fact that he stared at the camera: it doesnt matter what Hitler did or caused he is perennially fascinating: Albert Schweitzer has less of a following. McVeigh thought he was right...in fact he had to believe it or he would have gone mad or whatever term you want to use. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "paula speck" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 4:40 AM Subject: Re: McVeigh's face > Rova Saxophone Quartet and all-- > > I've worked on some death penalty cases, and I'd bet that Timothy McVeigh > DID know what that camera was and who he was looking at. > > A Spanish poet (Antonio Machado, I think) wrote a proverb that goes: "The > eye that sees you is an eye/ not because you see it/ but because it sees > you." ("El ojo que ves no es/ ojo porque lo ves/ sino ojo porque te ve." > The original has rhyme and a lot of close-rhyme). That means on several > levels, but the one I see here is this: Timothy McVeigh's eyes were eyes > while he was staring out of them; afterwards, just flesh. In his last > moments, the only action he was free to choose to take was to stare up at > the camera lens; from what we know of his character, he probably WAS > expressing hate (many witnesses thought so). That may have been an evil > thing to do, but it's consistent with the rest of his life. Anyway, I think > it would have been wrong to deny him that last choice after taking away all > other choices. Also, a better choice (if he made it) than "Invictus"--a > whiny adolescent poem if there ever was one. > > Paula S. (Lurker who couldn't resist replying to this one) > > > >From: Rova Saxophone Quartet > >Reply-To: rovasax@rova.org > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: McVeigh's face > >Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:58:42 -0700 > > > >Dodie > > > >I was struck by the news report lead sentence which read something > >like "Timothy McVeigh died today unknowingling staring into the eyes > >of OK City bombing survivors who watched through a hidden camera > >mounted in the ceiling..." > > > >how do they know it was "unknowingly?" > > > >and the strange dissatisfaction engendered by this -- that at the end > >he got to stare them in the face but they werent able to return the > >stare -- thus it must have been "unknowingly" -- and an odd parallel > >to the act he committed: having offed 150+ people without looking any > >of them in the eye, the ultimate act of cowardice, he wd be offed by > >the will of the masses w/out any of them looking him in the eye... > > > >hence the fascination w/ his face... the need to draw some kind of > >relief from that... the utter inability to do so. > > > >DC > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: UB Poetics discussion group > >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Dodie Bellamy > >Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:51 AM > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: McVeigh's face > > > > > >Hi All, > > > >Kevin (Killian) and I were in Indiana when Timothy McVeigh was > >executed. We were staying at my mother's house, where, if one got up > >early one was forcefed incendiary talk-radio. Imagine making your > >morning coffee to the voice of Dr. Laura. I usually skirted the > >issue by sleeping until 10, when Martha Stewart was on TV and the > >radio was turned off. Coffee with Martha was fine, learning how to > >make handbags decorated with the impressions of weeds dipped in > >paint, etc. > > > >But, we were flying back to SF the morning of McVeigh's execution, > >and thus, the talk-radio was on. It was mostly pro-execution. One > >Chicago broadcaster was actually calling McVeigh the McMurderer. > > > >So, when I got back, I read the online reportage in the New York > >Times, and there was a very interesting passage about people > >struggling to interpret McVeigh's face as he was dying. It reads > >like the beginning of a Roland Barthes essay: > > > > >As the witnesses to the execution spoke through the day, their > > >jarringly different descriptions offered a lucid but unexplored > > >commentary about the power of the camera. The two network > > >journalists chosen by lottery to watch, Byron Pitts of CBS and > > >Shepard Smith of the Fox News Channel, were careful not to read > > >anything into Mr. McVeigh's expression. Mr. Smith was especially > > >nuanced in reporting that Mr. McVeigh's skin had turned yellow and > > >that he had seemed to die painlessly; yet Mr. Smith was rare in > > >remaining so astutely aware that each witness would read the event > > >differently. As Paul Howell, whose daughter died in the bombing and > > >who was also a witness, said, "We didn't get anything from his face." > > > > > >But many family members who watched on closed circuit television in > > >Oklahoma City saw something else. After seeing images from a > > >stationary camera above Mr. McVeigh that stared into his face, they > > >said things like "We saw hatred" and "It was like I was looking at > > >the face of evil." > > > > > >That lesson about the camera seemed willfully lost on the > > >commentators, even when they noticed it. On the Fox News Channel, > > >John Gibson rhetorically jumped up and down after a woman who had > > >watched on closed circuit said it was "a slap in the face" when Mr. > > >McVeigh turned his head away. Mr. Gibson, inflammatory as usual, > > >didn't spend time wondering whether the people watching thousands of > > >miles away were imposing ideas on an image they could not truly come > > >close to. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 00:06:18 -0500 Reply-To: thomas/swiss Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: thomas/swiss Subject: Thanks for poets/film resources. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Many thanks to those of you who offered suggestions for films having to do = with poets and poetry. Very much appreciated! -Thom Swiss ----------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:18:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Potter Subject: Re: Boring 4 boring fore bore forbear In-Reply-To: <20010619155201.26855.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit BEGINNING MY STUDIES BEGINNING my studies the first step pleas'd me so much, The mere fact consciousness, these forms, the power of motion, The least insect or animal, the senses, eyesight, love, The first step I say awed me and pleas'd me so much, I have hardly gone and hardly wished to go any farther, But stop and loiter all the time to sing it in ecstatic songs. Wally Whitman on 6/19/01 8:52 AM, heidi peppermint at hpmint@YAHOO.COM wrote: > That then asks, what is poetry? What do we mean by > poetry? I think the answer to this depends on the > direction in which we read/some psycho-bio readings on > why one reads poetry: > > READING 'POETRY' THAT LEADS TO GREATER UNDERSTANDING > AND/OR TO TRUTH: > > 1. Morphous fluid sensory experience like phermone > rush experienced by homoeostatic system (consciousness > for ex.) > > 2. The morphous fluid sensory experience abstracted > to precept. > > 3. Precept abstracted to sound/word, "phermone rush" > or "crush" or "in love" etc. > > 4. Collection of sounds arranged in time to represent > experience. "I felt a phermone rush, an in love crush, > an etc blush" > > 5. Emotion abstracted, arranged; while ambiguity > contained so the experience can be imagined as > uncontradictory, and reality not fluid but stable via > poem. > > 6. Homeostatic system has abstracted the disruption, > controlled it, reduced its power. Fluidity of > existence made to seem solid ala experience boxed in > words and stacked in sentences and stored in > paragraphs/stanzas. > > 7. Sense in understanding, truth. > > > READING 'POETRY' THAT LEADS TO LESS UNDERSTANDING > AND/OR TO TOO: > > 1. Homeostatic system contains abstracted > disruptions, experience interpreted through language, > consciousness controlled and reduced and housed. > Fluidity of existence seems solid. > > 2. Homeostatic system experiences words placed into > off-kilter contexts so that the abstracted > disruptions, the seemingly solid perceptions reliquify > via contradictions and unresolvables in relationships > between parts. There is no room in which the boxes > are, the boxes are not on top of each other/their > relationship to each other is what?, and there are no > walls to boxes, and whatever is in them spills out. > > 3. The contradictions and unresolvables loosen the > denotations and connotations associated with sounds, > words experienced as sound and rhythm. Sound and > rhythm spill out. This is all. No essential thing > inside, just a wave. > > 4. Sound and rhythm experienced as morphous fluid > sensory experience, sound wave registered in way > similar to waves of sea or birdcall in prewaking > hours. > > 5. Other rooms lose the lines and angles that > designate walls, boxes begin to fall off stacks, > relationship between consciousness and outside world > less mitigated by abstractions. > > 6. Break in homeostasis. > > 7. Sense in sensation sense elation not since > nonsense. > > > This is my most re: sent mod hell for thanking a bout, > 'it'. > > Heidi Peppermint > > --- michael amberwind > wrote: >>> Michael >>> >>> Answer to your question: Is pleasure is the >>> *only* reason & the *only* cause >>> for doing *anything*? I would not be so sure. >> >> i'm not sure either - it may be possible that >> there are individuals who do not seek pleasure >> but pain, or its equivelant - i've simply never >> met them >> >> >>> My little twelve step program for withdrawing >>> from the dimension of pleasure >>> isn't necessarily a confession of my "self" >>> though some things may be >>> nominally true about my nominal little self. >>> these 12 reasons are reasons >>> anyone could have given for doing anything. >>> these are just some of the >>> things in this world that motivate people to do >>> things. motivations quite >>> possibly are not all towards pleasure, and >>> motivations are not necessarily >>> the substratum for activity. i cannot say for >>> sure that you are wrong, i >>> cannot say that every action, every effort does >>> not reduce to >>> pleasure-seeking with any certainty, but i sure >>> have my doubts you can know >>> that it does. besides, that would make >>> "pleasure-seeking" a sort of >>> tautological theory of behavior. >>> >>> weird thing is, i trust language on a certain >>> level. it can tell us things, >>> perhaps false things, but reasons enough for >>> speculating on the possibility >>> that we are not all so fundamentally >>> egocentric, where we are not something >>> like mystical acorns lodged deep within our >>> bodies or spirits, etc. what >>> self is, is and will likely remain a mystery. >> >> that i would agree to - we are certainly >> mysterious being in a mysterious world - so then >> why *trust* the self that creates language? >> >>> and, well, some people who are miserable in >>> this world do read poetry, >>> people with f'ed up reasons of all sorts, or >>> people with things beyond their >>> control (or some combination of both). it >>> happens on this planet, or at >>> least I believe so. >> >> i am not so willing to relieve people of the >> responsibility for even their smallest acts, >> including (perhaps esp.) the reading and writing >> of poetry - while we are all "f'ed up", our >> reasons or excuses depending on yr bent or mood - >> i've never actually seen anyone forced to read >> poetry - even in school i often made the choice >> simply to *not* do the reading that was required >> of me, preferring to follow my own predilictions >> -for this i was rewarded with bad marks, which >> closed many avenues and opportunities, and opened >> up others - this was, for lack of a better term, >> a choice >> >> on my planet, people make those >> >> >>> you also said: "everything we do is based on >>> some >>>> prior condition or concept of self" >>> >>> whoa. how can you be so sure? i don't think >>> you can be so sure. though i >>> guess it's possible you are. >> >> it is not to hard to see that everything an >> individual does is based on some notion of their >> self perception - the field of psychology is >> largely devoted to viewing the self in a more >> healthy light so that one's actions might be >> altered >> >> poetry too is based on both previous conditions >> (the writer's state of mind - literary influences >> - cultural influences - ad infinitum) >> and the poets concept of self >> >> i would argue that there is nothing in the >> universe that does not arise from previous >> conditions - time is real, physics tells us this >> >> >>> i agree with your comment about positing an >>> unconscious mind... change that >>> to "body". >> >> perhaps a new word needs to be coined - the >> buddhists are much better at this game >> >>> i wrote the following last night, a sort of >>> obvious joke on the surface (if >>> you dig philosophy, & I believe you do) but >>> then a not so obvious joke >>> underneath. things can get complicated >>> quickly, and then they get sort of >>> strange, into a world without answers. it's >>> based on some very excellent >>> graffiti i saw last night that said, >>> "everything you know is wrong." i >>> laughed at it, but then i don't believe we can >>> know we know, and so on.... >> >> "everything you know is wrong" creates some >> paradoxes (presumably suitable for 1st year >> Philosophy students and the like) >> >> personally i like the title of Robert Anton >> Wilson's film script for an unmade film "Reality >> is What You Can Get Away With" >> >> >>> justified true belief >>> >>> is knowledge >>> >>> >>> some of the things you know >>> >>> are wrong >>> >>> >>> >>> after all, at the end of your post, i think >>> what we believe is not that far >>> apart. i don't think you're just aware of your >>> uncertainties. after all as >>> you mention a gestalt can be made of many >>> things into one thing, hence the >>> possibility of all things boiling down to >>> pleasure-seeking. yet you >> >> again - i wonder if another term other than >> "pleasure" might be necessary - one that includes >> the drive towards wholeness implicit in order - >> and entropy >> >>> acknowledge something that you agree with about >>> what i wrote those possibly >>> many things forming the gestalt. the >>> uncertainty itself is a sign. >>> >>> thanks for your sincerity michael. >>> >>> best, >>> >>> Patrick >>> >> >> >> ===== >> ...I am a real poet. My poem >> is finished and I haven't mentioned >> orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call >> it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery >> I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. >> [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. >> http://buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. > http://buzz.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:44:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Potter Subject: Re: Dunning langpo In-Reply-To: <121.7c6b12.285ffba1@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain..." Bob Dylan Much of comedy is taking pleasure in pain suffered by others; Chaplin as the little tramp falling on his ass, Moe nailing Curly in the eyes, Wiley Coyote, Super Genius, getting crushed beneath a big ol' boulder. Part of the pleasure of course lies in their elan vital, they all get back up! Van Gogh refused to paint portraits of the rich ladies of Paris because there was no character in their faces, preferred to paint portraits of miners, farmers, etc., whose faces were shaped by suffering. Artistic representations of sorrow are pleasurable because they are not real sorrow, merely a finger pointing at the moon not the moon itself. on 6/18/01 5:49 PM, Austinwja@AOL.COM at Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 06/18/2001 5:53:34 PM, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG writes: > > << I frankly do not see how sorrow could be > > pleasurable. That just makes no sense. >> > > Agree or disagree, but it has been said that one of Bob Dylan's greatest > revelations was that sorrow can be beautiful. Is there pleasure in beauty, > or rather in the seemingly felt perception of it? Best, Bill > > William James Austin.com > Koja Press.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:11:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: McVeigh's face In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I write about Invictus, not McVeigh. Invictus may be whiny in its high school, forced memorization context. But, its fascinating origins shed a different light on the poem. Wm. Henley, its author, had lost one leg to osteomyelitis at 18. He was in danger of losing the other when he went to see Joseph Lister. He placed himself in Lister's care for almost two years, in hospital all this time. Lister saved his leg. So, it was through this personal struggle that Invictus was born. It is also a very radical poem in its period, since it tears faith from the heavens and embeds it in the individual who wins through great personal risk via individual struggle. Of course,the struggle was not entirely individual...there was also Lister...but not God. Henley is Stevenson's model for Long John Silver. At 12:40 PM 6/19/01 -0400, you wrote: >Rova Saxophone Quartet and all-- > >I've worked on some death penalty cases, and I'd bet that Timothy McVeigh >DID know what that camera was and who he was looking at. > >A Spanish poet (Antonio Machado, I think) wrote a proverb that goes: "The >eye that sees you is an eye/ not because you see it/ but because it sees >you." ("El ojo que ves no es/ ojo porque lo ves/ sino ojo porque te ve." >The original has rhyme and a lot of close-rhyme). That means on several >levels, but the one I see here is this: Timothy McVeigh's eyes were eyes >while he was staring out of them; afterwards, just flesh. In his last >moments, the only action he was free to choose to take was to stare up at >the camera lens; from what we know of his character, he probably WAS >expressing hate (many witnesses thought so). That may have been an evil >thing to do, but it's consistent with the rest of his life. Anyway, I think >it would have been wrong to deny him that last choice after taking away all >other choices. Also, a better choice (if he made it) than "Invictus"--a >whiny adolescent poem if there ever was one. > >Paula S. (Lurker who couldn't resist replying to this one) > > >>From: Rova Saxophone Quartet >>Reply-To: rovasax@rova.org >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: McVeigh's face >>Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:58:42 -0700 >> >>Dodie >> >>I was struck by the news report lead sentence which read something >>like "Timothy McVeigh died today unknowingling staring into the eyes >>of OK City bombing survivors who watched through a hidden camera >>mounted in the ceiling..." >> >>how do they know it was "unknowingly?" >> >>and the strange dissatisfaction engendered by this -- that at the end >>he got to stare them in the face but they werent able to return the >>stare -- thus it must have been "unknowingly" -- and an odd parallel >>to the act he committed: having offed 150+ people without looking any >>of them in the eye, the ultimate act of cowardice, he wd be offed by >>the will of the masses w/out any of them looking him in the eye... >> >>hence the fascination w/ his face... the need to draw some kind of >>relief from that... the utter inability to do so. >> >>DC >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: UB Poetics discussion group >>[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Dodie Bellamy >>Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:51 AM >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: McVeigh's face >> >> >>Hi All, >> >>Kevin (Killian) and I were in Indiana when Timothy McVeigh was >>executed. We were staying at my mother's house, where, if one got up >>early one was forcefed incendiary talk-radio. Imagine making your >>morning coffee to the voice of Dr. Laura. I usually skirted the >>issue by sleeping until 10, when Martha Stewart was on TV and the >>radio was turned off. Coffee with Martha was fine, learning how to >>make handbags decorated with the impressions of weeds dipped in >>paint, etc. >> >>But, we were flying back to SF the morning of McVeigh's execution, >>and thus, the talk-radio was on. It was mostly pro-execution. One >>Chicago broadcaster was actually calling McVeigh the McMurderer. >> >>So, when I got back, I read the online reportage in the New York >>Times, and there was a very interesting passage about people >>struggling to interpret McVeigh's face as he was dying. It reads >>like the beginning of a Roland Barthes essay: >> >> >As the witnesses to the execution spoke through the day, their >> >jarringly different descriptions offered a lucid but unexplored >> >commentary about the power of the camera. The two network >> >journalists chosen by lottery to watch, Byron Pitts of CBS and >> >Shepard Smith of the Fox News Channel, were careful not to read >> >anything into Mr. McVeigh's expression. Mr. Smith was especially >> >nuanced in reporting that Mr. McVeigh's skin had turned yellow and >> >that he had seemed to die painlessly; yet Mr. Smith was rare in >> >remaining so astutely aware that each witness would read the event >> >differently. As Paul Howell, whose daughter died in the bombing and >> >who was also a witness, said, "We didn't get anything from his face." >> > >> >But many family members who watched on closed circuit television in >> >Oklahoma City saw something else. After seeing images from a >> >stationary camera above Mr. McVeigh that stared into his face, they >> >said things like "We saw hatred" and "It was like I was looking at >> >the face of evil." >> > >> >That lesson about the camera seemed willfully lost on the >> >commentators, even when they noticed it. On the Fox News Channel, >> >John Gibson rhetorically jumped up and down after a woman who had >> >watched on closed circuit said it was "a slap in the face" when Mr. >> >McVeigh turned his head away. Mr. Gibson, inflammatory as usual, >> >didn't spend time wondering whether the people watching thousands of >> >miles away were imposing ideas on an image they could not truly come >> >close to. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:17:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: The D'oh of Homer In-Reply-To: <20010619175732.76367.qmail@web10802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have read both the Odyssey and Iliad rather closely. And I don't recall Homer ever using any "d'oh" in the text. At 10:57 AM 6/19/01 -0700, you wrote: >unless i am mistaken the word being added is >"duh" which is *not* a Simpsons word - i recall >it being used as a term denoting a statement so >obvious that to suggest otherwise would be stupid >- i remember using it as a child long before the >Simpsons > >e.g. > >Person #1: You know, the people on the UB Mailing >List are the most attractive and intelligent >individuals to ever make use of the internet. > >Person #2: Duh! > >Homer's famous "d'oh" (either dough or duh - >ough) always denoted where Homer made some >particularily stupid mistake, or an accident > >i suspect that the television series would need >to be off the air and for "d'oh" to continued to >be in the common lexicon for a period after it >for the OED to pick it up - otherwise it might >simply be a "fad" word - unless they include >those as well? i am not familiar with the OED >rules for inclusion > >i would be all for it - as well as adding the >word "Homer" as a synonym for a really stupid >error as in > >"He pulled a Homer." > >i suspect including "The Bartman" might be a >little much > >**************************************** > > >Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:02:36 -0700 > >From: peter culley > >Subject: homer makes the oed > > >The circle of life is complete; the cosmic dance > >unfolds--Homer Simpson = > >enters the OED. > > >http://www.oed.com/public/news/01064.htm#message > >------------------------------ > >===== >...I am a real poet. My poem >is finished and I haven't mentioned >orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call >it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery >I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. > [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. >http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:06:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Funkhouser, Chris" Subject: Re: Baraka query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Robert, I say go to the horse's mouth: _The Autobiography of Leroi Jones/Amiri Baraka_ tells the tale well. -Chris F. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:14:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - going somewhere the field was fresh mown evening hay mind if i walk along with you a bit , susan dusk come on quick, stars and waning moon i won't bother you none did someone leave you ever do you know i never seen an angel none , susan isn't someone waiting for you my name is susan graham my named is susan graham , susan _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:27:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: new barbour book... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: . Lyric/Anti-lyric: essays on contemporary poetry Writer as Critic: VIII Douglas Barbour . Lyric/Anti-lyric: essays on contemporary poetry, by Douglas Barbour, is the latest addition to NeWest Press' award-winning Writer as Critic Series. . Douglas Barbour is a well known Canadian poet living in Edmonton, Alberta. Lyric/Anti-lyric begins with his well known essay by the same title and includes a number of his recent essays on the poetry of various Canadian poets-including Michael Ondaatje, Phyllis Webb, E.D. Blodgett, Roy Kiyooka, Sharon Thesen and others-as well as some Australian and New Zealand poets, and one long essay on American poet Susan Howe. Lyric/Anti-lyric brings together the best of Barbour's criticism over the past two decades. . Since first visiting Australia and New Zealand in 1984 Barbour has developed a growing interest in the poetry of both countries which share a wide range of colonial and postcolonial experiences with Canada. He has always been interested in US poetry in the Pound-Williams line, and this has led to his recent work on Howe. . "This accessible collection of essays represents twenty years of Douglas Barbour's thinking about modern and contemporary poetry. Barbour is a careful reader who attends to poetry's nuances and responds with the subtlety of a scholar and the passion of a poet. 'I tend to write essays as a series of notes,' Barbour writes, 'little travels over the body of single words, trying to see and hear what I can, and to articulate that response as accurately as possible.' His readers are fortunate indeed to join Barbour in his travels through a variety of works by Canadian, Australian and New Zealand poets." -Manina Jones . Douglas Barbour is a professor in the Department of English, University of Alberta, where he teaches creative writing, modern poetry, Canadian Literature, and science fiction and fantasy. A teacher, writer, critic, theorist, editor, publisher and poet, Barbour holds degrees from Acadia, Dalhousie and Queen's Universities. His latest book of poetry, Fragmenting Body etc was published by NeWest Press and SALT Publishing in 2000. . For more information or to order please contact: Erin Creasey NeWest Press erin@newestpress.com (780) 432-9427 www.newestpress.com . Or visit your favourite on-line bookseller. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:28:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: The D'oh of Homer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii finally checked it out - link wasn't working when i tried it the first time - and another newsgroup i was on was talking about duh! *not* doh! - seems they are both there i am sure "woo hoo" is already in there? kudos to Matt Groenig - a genius of television if there ever was one... i still think the Simpsons reading of the Raven by Edgar Allen Poe is the best yet ------------------------------ >Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:56:18 -0700 >From: peter culley >Subject: Re: The D'oh of Homer >It really is the Homer doh! (exclamation mark >incl.)check the June 2001 OED >online update. The picture will probably have to >wait for the next edition >of the Random House unabridged. > unless i am mistaken the word being added is > "duh" which is *not* a Simpsons word - i recall > it being used as a term denoting a statement so > obvious that to suggest otherwise would be stupid > - i remember using it as a child long before the > Simpsons > > e.g. > > Person #1: You know, the people on the UB Mailing > List are the most attractive and intelligent > individuals to ever make use of the internet. > > Person #2: Duh! > > Homer's famous "d'oh" (either dough or duh - > ough) always denoted where Homer made some > particularily stupid mistake, or an accident > > i suspect that the television series would need > to be off the air and for "d'oh" to continued to > be in the common lexicon for a period after it > for the OED to pick it up - otherwise it might > simply be a "fad" word - unless they include > those as well? i am not familiar with the OED > rules for inclusion > > i would be all for it - as well as adding the > word "Homer" as a synonym for a really stupid > error as in > > "He pulled a Homer." > > i suspect including "The Bartman" might be a > little much > > **************************************** > > >Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:02:36 -0700 > >From: peter culley > >Subject: homer makes the oed > > >The circle of life is complete; the cosmic dance > >unfolds--Homer Simpson = > >enters the OED. > > >http://www.oed.com/public/news/01064.htm#message ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:58:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Baker Subject: absurd poetry In-Reply-To: <3B2F7141.17389.AA5E4FD@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello I am trying to put together a list of living poets who's work is absurd/ surreal or otherwise humorous. The aesthetic leaning is toward poets with some sort of spiritual or experimental underpinning. Russell Edson is on top of the list so far... I wondered if anyone might have suggestions. Thanks Andrea Baker ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:51:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:17 PM -0700 6/19/01, Steve Potter wrote: >Pull My Daisy (starring Ginsberg, Kerouac and Corso as Groucho, Harpo and >Chico. Forget the name of the guy who plays Zeppo. Plenty of fun!) wasn't it larry rivers? or someone like that? david amram? not that they're like each other... > >Naked Lunch (depicting Burroughs, Jane and Paul Bowles, Ginsberg, Keroauc >etc. at play in interzone.) > >Heartburn (I think that's the title, about Kerouac love-triangle with Neal >and Carolyn Cassady.) no, but it should be. it's (d'oh) "heartbeat." > >Garcia Lorca (about a guy who idolized Lorca as a boy returning to Spain to >find the truth about his murder. Great flick!) > >Hal Hartley put out a great movie a coupla years back about the lives of two >fictional poets that probably doesn't exactly fit your needs but is >definitely worth watching for your own pleasure. Think the title is Simon >Fool. > >on 6/19/01 11:39 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM at Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > >> In a message dated 06/19/2001 12:23:56 PM, Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU writes: >> >> << What comes to mind: >> >> Tom & Viv (Eliot. Hated it) >> Barfly (kinda about Bukowski. Liked it) >> Poetic Justice (not really about a poet but it does include some >> verse by Maya Angelou. Hated it) >> Mrs. Parker and the Viscious Circle (Dorothy et al. Liked it) >> Henry and June (on Miller & Nin, kinda fun, I thought) >> Il Postino (Neruda. Skiped it) >> >> --JGallaher >> ----------------------- >> For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles >> that portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or >> even minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th >> century poets. Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! >> >> Thom Swiss >> thomas.swiss@drake.edu >>>> >> >> Total Eclipse (Rimbaud and Verlaine -- AWFUL) >> The Basketball Diaries (Jim Carroll -- not awful, but not good either) >> Gothic (Shelley and Byron -- AWFUL) >> >> There have also been a couple about Beat poets that changed the names to >> protect the innocent. Best, Bill >> >> William James Austin.com >> Koja Press.com >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:09:02 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Re: Baraka query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Let's not overlook the AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF LEROI JONES / AMIRI BARAKA -- the subject is also treated in fictive form in SIX PERSONS -- essays in RAISE, RAYS, RACE etc -- and his own retrospective look at the Black Arts period, now included in updated version of the BARAKA READER -- Komosi Woodard's recent book, while it doesn't really address the poetics, does a good job on the politics and organizing activities of the period -- >>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:52:09 -0400 >>From: Daniel Kane >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>CC: >>Subject: Re: Baraka query >> See Werner Sollor's _Amiri Baraka; the Quest for a Populist Modernism_. New York: Columbia University Press, 1978. _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:08:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Lewis Subject: Re: poets in film Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit There's a film from the 80's called "Ruben, Ruben" w/ Tom Conte --the main character (a poet) seems to be based loosely on the life of Dylan Thomas (particularly Dylan Thomas' american adventures) -- I also remember seeing a film bio of Stevie Smith in that period joel lewis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:23:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, he is the perfect reflection of a certain world view. Ron ----------------- Wednesday June 20 8:48 PM ET Collins Named U.S. Poet Laureate By CARL HARTMAN, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - Billy Collins, a popular poet who makes money at the job, was named Wednesday as the 11th U.S. poet laureate. Collins can collect $2,000 for a single reading of his poetry and Random House has reportedly offered him a publishing contract of at least $100,000 for three books. He also is a distinguished professor of English at Lehman College in Somers, N.Y. His one-year post as laureate will net him a $35,000 salary, a Washington office at the Library of Congress (news - web sites) and few duties except to give more readings. Collins, born in 1941, succeeds 95-year-old Stanley Kunitz and Robert Pinsky, whose project to collect Americans' favorite poems drew the participation of President Clinton (news - web sites) and first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton (news - web sites). There's no problem interpreting Collins' poetry. He has written a sonnet in the conventional 14 lines but with little regard for such matters as rhyme or meter. Four of the lines read: ``How easily it goes unless you get Elizabethan and insist the iambic bongos must be played and rhymes positioned at the end of lines one for every station of the cross.'' He wrote one poem about a neighbor's barking dog who annoyed him so much that he started playing a Beethoven record to drown out the noise. ``... but I can still hear him muffled under the music barking, barking, barking ... and now I see him sitting in the orchestra his head raised confidently as if Beethoven had included a part for barking dog.'' ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 20:54:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > growing sow him were > > the fee heeled was fray mesh mow him "Evening!" "Hey!" > Mend if I talk a long with you a bout; Sooth sand, walk along with you a bit, mind > , susan > 'Dust' a on quick come-on, starts and wanting moons, Eyes woe end, brothers anon. dusk quick, stars and waning > bother you none Deed sow him one lea you aver Dew you? No, I never. Sea in an angle. did someone leave you ever do you know i never seen an angel Nun. Sooths And. none > , susan >No one isn't not returning: Fore you. > mine is susan graham > > my name miss sooth sand grants> , Slew san Grey lamb. > Susan Graham. Say soon Grey him. Sooooooooooo so Green hum. > > > _ --- Alan Sondheim wrote: > - > > > going somewhere > > the field was fresh mown evening hay > mind if i walk along with you a bit > , susan > > dusk come on quick, stars and waning moon > i won't bother you none > > did someone leave you ever > do you know i never seen an angel > > none > , susan > > isn't someone waiting for you > > my name is susan graham > > my named is susan graham > , susan > > > > _ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:19:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Alan Sondheim wrote: > - mass went up by the mountains, she cared and wooed and bundled. Ewe curtailed Hue or Old Wood. Accord it was, all the same it was wooed it were wooed it be wooed. mass rang it was willed it was want it was wind with a hey nonny nonny say sand grind >sam came down from the mountain > he carried a wooden bundle you > couldn't tell hewn or old wood > or a cord it was all the same it > was wood it was wood it was wood > > > sam sang > it was wood it was wood it was wood > > > i was there, susan graham > > > > > > _ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:35:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: e-mail Jim Beherle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have an e-mail address for Jim Beherle (sp?). Thanks, Cydney Chadwick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:28:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Potter Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit D'oh! that's right. heartburn was a jack nicholson flick...or was it headache?...hernia? >> Heartburn (I think that's the title, about Kerouac love-triangle with Neal >> and Carolyn Cassady.) > > no, but it should be. it's (d'oh) "heartbeat." >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:51:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T Pelton Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 19 Jun 2001 to 20 Jun 2001 (#2001-89) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:58:23 -0400 > From: Baker > Subject: absurd poetry > > Hello > > I am trying to put together a list of living poets who's work is absurd/ > surreal or otherwise humorous. The aesthetic leaning is toward poets with > some sort of spiritual or experimental underpinning. > > Russell Edson is on top of the list so far... > > I wondered if anyone might have suggestions. > > Thanks > Andrea Baker > > ------------------------------ > He's an old timer now, but for my money in this category, how bout Kenneth Koch? "Let's Pour Coca Cola on the Priest" (from _Straits_, 1998) Let's Pour Coca Cola On the Priest While he's asleep! This day is long The cherries blossom Life is strong And he's asleep! Each temple garden Awakes from sleep The sand is strong In shining mist. Let's go, pour Coca Cola on The Priest While he's asleep! _Don Juan of Kyoto_ Ted Pelton ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:29:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Re: m&r..po movies we\'d pay $$$ to see... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hey Doctor Nudel, were the sixties fun? I've heard a lot about them but I was too young (actually just conceived!) to get around to much then. It's really really important for me to hear a LOG I mean a LOAD I mean a LOT about the sixties, from YOU! Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:48:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Re: if I smoke too quickly ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it is the countenance of want. Speaking of it, desire and consumptions This week-end is NY gay pride. And though it's no longer what it used to be (that is -- Gay Liberation may be dead.) I would like to wish my fellow queer avant garde poets HAPPY HOLIDAYS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:41:10 -0500 Reply-To: thomas/swiss Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: thomas/swiss Subject: final poets/films list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" A few of you asked to see the complete list. Thanks. --Thom ---- Total Eclipse, directed by Polish director Agnieszka Holland, is about the relationship of Rimbaud and Verlaine. Leonardo diCaprio as Rimbaud, and David Thewlis as Verlaine. See _Regeneration_ based on a novel by Pat Barker, about Siefried Sassoon going to a mental hospital during World War I to be cured of his observation that the war was an obscenity. Wallis Leslie The "Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg" is another good film/ poet thing to see. Julie Kizershot antonin artaud acted in many films--such as dreyer's "passion of Joan of = arc" and Abel gance's "napoleon" Cocteau made two great films about poets--"orpheus" and "blood of a poet" Tom & Viv (Eliot. Hated it) Barfly (kinda about Bukowski. Liked it) Poetic Justice (not really about a poet but it does include some verse by Maya Angelou. Hated it) Mrs. Parker and the Viscious Circle (Dorothy et al. Liked it) Henry and June (on Miller & Nin, kinda fun, I thought) Il Postino (Neruda. Skiped it) Total Eclipse (Rimbaud and Verlaine -- AWFUL) The Basketball Diaries (Jim Carroll -- not awful, but not good either) Gothic (Shelley and Byron -- AWFUL) Pull My Daisy (starring Ginsberg, Kerouac and Corso as Groucho, Harpo and Chico. Forget the name of the guy who plays Zeppo. Plenty of fun!) Naked Lunch (depicting Burroughs, Jane and Paul Bowles, Ginsberg, Keroauc etc. at play in interzone.) HeartBEAT (I think that's the title, about Kerouac love-triangle with Neal and Carolyn Cassady.) Garcia Lorca (about a guy who idolized Lorca as a boy returning to Spain = to find the truth about his murder. Great flick!) Hal Hartley put out a great movie a coupla years back about the lives of = two fictional poets that probably doesn't exactly fit your needs but is definitely worth watching for your own pleasure. Think the title is Simon Fool. This is a canadian film board production that has Rip Torn as Whitman! jd Beautiful Dreamers 1990, 105 min 00 sec This film can be viewed on site at the = Cin=3DE9roboth=3DE8que=3D in Montreal Abstract The superintendent of the London insane asylum, Dr. Maurice Bucke, despairs of the treatment methods in use during the Victorian era, = which consist essentially of restraint and electroshock. At a conference in Philadelphia, he makes the acquaintance of poet Walt Whitman. This meeting will radically change his life, and that of his wife and patients. Whitman, who travels to London at Bucke's invitation, has avant-garde ideas about mental illness, sexuality, the emotions and life in general--ideas that are profoundly humanistic and enlightened. This film is based on historical = events. -- The Belle of Amherst: Julie Harris, dr. zhivago,=20 ~the moderns~ (which dances around poets and novelists) ~reuben, reuben~ ~love jones~ (in which poetry community serves as background) ~slam~ Dianne Keaton plays a poet who publishes in the NYer in INTERIORS; Jeff Goldblum plays a kind of neo-beat poet in BODY SNATCHERS (best scene: someone's trying to get him out of a room at a party, why I can't remember.= The ruse: "There's someone in the other room who likes your work.") = Other movies, courtesy of my poet friends: Tom and Viv, Stevie, Don't Look Back trailer (Ginsburg in background), Poetic Justice, Shadowlands (if you consider C.S. Lewis a poet). More as more occurs. -- "Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle" does Dorothy Parker and the early New Yorker gang...there's a movie where Leonardo DiCaprio plays Arthur Rimbaud, can't think of the name but I'm sure you could find his filmography online. God, there must be more but those are the ones which first come to mind. There are also plenty of documentaries around about the 60s which have footage of Allen Ginsberg. Oh, and "Stevie" is great -- a biographical pic about Stevie Smith. Tom and Viv Total Ecplise (Rimbaud/Verlaine) The Disappearnace of Garcia Lorca Mrs. Parker Looking for Langston ----- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:59:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Electronic Poetry Review Number 2 / Powell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was requested that I forward this message to the list. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- Date: Wed, Jun 20, 2001 18:43 -0700 From: Doug Powell Subject: Re: Electronic Poetry Review Number 2 Katherine Swiggart and I are pleased to announce the second issue of Electronic Poetry Review is now online at http://www.poetry.org This issue features new poems by Maxine Chernoff, Liz Waldner, Tessa Rumsey, Leslie Scalapino, Adrienne Su, Aaron Shurin, David Case, Kevin Prufer, Claudia Keelan, Sam Witt, Tessa Rumsey, Dean Young, Jane Mead, Major Jackson and Christopher Davis. Special features include a new poem by Marvin Bell with a built in "randomizer" so that the poem can be re-configured in a variety of ways and a new translation of Apollinaire by Donald Revell. The team of Too Many Stars provided an excellent interview by David Bromige, Brenda Hillman sent a stunning essay on beauty; and, as always, we've got some terrific reviews by Chris Stroffolino, Gerald Schwartz, Jeffrey Jullich, Curt Leitz, Arielle Greenberg, Fred Muratori, Ken Rumble and David Hadbawnik, writing on recent books by Dale Smith, Forrest Hamer, Joe Wenderoth, Claudia Rankine, Kim Addonizion and Phillis Levin, Susan Howe, Juliana Spahr, Frederick Seidel and Kenward Elmslie. Special thanks to all of the contributors who helped to make this issue happen, and to all who have promised work for the future. Stay tuned for EPR #3 coming this Fall. D A Powell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:25:07 -0600 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Organization: housepress Subject: SLANT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SLANT is an upcoming under-grad print magazine that aims to challenge racism, both personal and systemic. Ten students from the UofC are hoping to create a space for anti-racist discussion and debate and are looking for original and thought-provoking articles, interviews, reviews (books, music, anything!), opinions, fiction, poetry, artwork, recipes, jokes, trivia - anything at all that is engaging, entertaining and interactive!! So sharpen your pencils and send in something! anything! There are no guidelines! Obviously, we want something that falls into our mandate, and "interesting", "engaging", and "informative" are key. I know each and every one of you has something to say, and if you've ever wanted a textual space for it, don't lose your chance. The deadline is July1. The basics: Deadline: July 1 2001 Email to: hdedey@hotmail.com Include submission as attachment and/or in body of email (whichever you feel comfortable doing!) Payment: the fuzzy feeling of having contributed to a magazine whose mandate is (hopefully!) agreeable to you. Feel free to forward the message to interested parties ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 04:24:47 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Re: Thanks for poets/film resources. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII and not to be overlooked for sheer overlookability is the item titled, I think, Wild Flowers, with Eric Roberts, Daryl Hanna and others as left-over-hippies in the Bay area AND Robert Haas as the dying writer Hannah kisses -- was in a theater for about three minutes, then straight to your local video store -- "Why don't they stop throwing symbols?" --Bob Kaufman Aldon L. Nielsen The George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literture Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 >>Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 00:06:18 -0500 >>From: thomas/swiss >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>CC: >>Subject: Thanks for poets/film resources. >> Many thanks to those of you who offered suggestions for films having to do with poets and poetry. Very much appreciated! -Thom Swiss ----------- _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:18:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lee ann brown Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 2 Jun 2001 to 6 Jun 2001 (#2001-80) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sanctuary Theater and The Culture Project present A free staged reading for potential investors & the general public DOOR WIDE OPEN a new play by Joyce Johnson adapted from the letters of Jack Kerouac & Joyce Johnson directed by Tony Torn with Amy Wright, Jennifer Woodward & John Ventimiglia as Kerouac Special Musical Guest: David Amram Sunday June 24th 9pm @ The Culture Project 45 Bleeker Street, just west of Lafayette Free call 212-206-7188 for reservations *** *** *** ** * * * * (718) 782-8443 new home phone (646) 734-4157 the cell phone * * * * * ** * * * * ***** I've moved but Mailing Address is the SAME: Lee Ann Brown Tender Buttons PO Box 13, Cooper Station NYC 10276 *** *** *** ** * * * * (718) 782-8443 new home phone (646) 734-4157 the cell phone * * * * * ** * * * * ***** I've moved but Mailing Address is the SAME: Lee Ann Brown Tender Buttons PO Box 13, Cooper Station NYC 10276 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:24:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Smylie Subject: Homer's Iliad Book 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================================== Susan Katz and Barry Smylie Invite you to play Book 12 of the multimedia serial interpretation, HOMER'S ILIAD http://barrysmylie.com/iliad/iliad000.htm copyright 2001: Wietor, Katz, Douglas, Smylie. All rights reserved. ============================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:28:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Libbie Rifkin Subject: the age of audio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, Emerging out of lurkerdom with a couple of queries: Who has written well about the significance of the poetry reading and audio documentation in the last 50 years of poetry culture? I know about Bernstein ed., *Close Listening,* Michael Davidson's great chapter on tapevoice in *Ghostlier Demarcations,* and Ammiel Alcalay's recent Times Op/Ed. Anyone read/written anything else good? Beyond the Poetry Project, Naropa, and The Poetry Archives at SFSU, what would you say are the most important audio poetry archives? Thanks! Libbie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:32:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bruce Holsapple Subject: Re: absurd poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philip Whalen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:03:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration In-Reply-To: <000501c0f9f9$55861f40$3353fea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Very telling that the first two paragraphs of the article, as well as the fourth, focus on money. Poetry and money. That's the key, I guess. And I notice that every paragraph is a one-sentence paragraph. Now that's writing. charles At 10:23 PM 6/20/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Well, he is the perfect reflection of a certain world view. > >Ron > >----------------- > >Wednesday June 20 8:48 PM ET > >Collins Named U.S. Poet Laureate > >By CARL HARTMAN, Associated Press Writer > >WASHINGTON (AP) - Billy Collins, a popular poet who makes money at the job, >was named Wednesday as the 11th U.S. poet laureate. > >Collins can collect $2,000 for a single reading of his poetry and Random >House has reportedly offered him a publishing contract of at least $100,000 >for three books. > >He also is a distinguished professor of English at Lehman College in Somers, >N.Y. > >His one-year post as laureate will net him a $35,000 salary, a Washington >office at the Library of Congress (news - web sites) and few duties except >to give more readings. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:05:31 -0400 Reply-To: kevinkillian@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kevinkillian@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: poets in film Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi everyone! For "poets in film" you should see the Australian film "Moulin Rouge," I've seen it twice, it is great, the= character Ewan McGregor plays is a poet in Paris in 1899. It's the kind of film some of you will hate, some will love, = but people in the audience were clapping and cheering after the different musical numbers and at the end everyone stood u= p and applauded, how often do you see that in the cinema? And one extra plus, "Moulin Rouge" has a cameo appearance by Australia's greatest pop star Kylie Minogue, she plays the g= reen fairy on the absinthe poster who comes to life and sings and dances and flirts with Ewan once he is drunk with the p= owerful absinthe!! Worth seeing just for Kylie!!! -- Kevin Killian -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at http://www.mail2web.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:18:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: "And I depart unhurt." In-Reply-To: <47804.3202117151@ny-chicagost2a-240.buf.adelphia.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What Ashbery poem ends with this line: "And I depart unhurt." -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:53:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: the age of audio In-Reply-To: <88539F4A9A5C3041B06A234AA2ABDB58027A94@portia.folger.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There's quite a collection of audio tapes at the Poetry Center of the University of Arizona, which go back to that Center's origin in about 1960. I believe there is a project either going on, or to start soon, that will convert those tapes to digital media. The Center is "between" directors at the moment, so I'm not certain how that analog to digital conversion project is going. I don't believe the job listing seeking a new director has been posted. When it is, I'll try and forward that to the list. For info, call the center in Tucson at 520-626-1185 and speak with Frances Shoberg. Charles At 09:28 AM 6/21/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Beyond the Poetry Project, Naropa, and The Poetry Archives at SFSU, what >would you say are the most important audio poetry archives? > >Thanks! >Libbie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:05:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William J Allegrezza Subject: chicago query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii does anyone know any places to hear experimental poetry in chicago? Bill ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:38:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dunning langpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/21/2001 1:22:57 PM, spotter@SPEAKEASY.ORG writes: << "behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain..." Bob Dylan >> It's not dark yet, but it's getting there. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:52:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Potter Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 19 Jun 2001 to 20 Jun 2001 (#2001-89) In-Reply-To: <3B31EDC9.79502C5@medaille.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Antler on 6/21/01 5:51 AM, T Pelton at tpelton@MEDAILLE.EDU wrote: >> >> >> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:58:23 -0400 >> From: Baker >> Subject: absurd poetry >> >> Hello >> >> I am trying to put together a list of living poets who's work is absurd/ >> surreal or otherwise humorous. The aesthetic leaning is toward poets with >> some sort of spiritual or experimental underpinning. >> >> Russell Edson is on top of the list so far... >> >> I wondered if anyone might have suggestions. >> >> Thanks >> Andrea Baker >> >> ------------------------------ >> > > He's an old timer now, but for my money in this category, how bout Kenneth > Koch? > > "Let's Pour Coca Cola on the Priest" (from _Straits_, 1998) > > Let's Pour > Coca Cola > On the Priest > While he's asleep! > > This day is long > The cherries blossom > Life is strong > And he's asleep! > > Each temple garden > Awakes from sleep > The sand is strong > In shining mist. > > Let's go, pour > Coca Cola on > The Priest > While he's asleep! > > _Don Juan of Kyoto_ > > Ted Pelton > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:09:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: fare thee well john lee hooker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit john lee hooker the great blues singer died today a great musician and poet fare thee well dear old friend ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:17:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: McVeigh's face MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit many many thanks for yr. note on Henley! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:26:39 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: the age of audio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" i'd recommend SOUND STATES, Innovative Poetics and Acoustical Technologies (comes with CD), Adalaide Morris, U. of Carolina Press 1997. i don't know how it rates comparatively but i found a wealth of taped material held by the Poetry Archive at UCSD. wystan -----Original Message----- From: Libbie Rifkin [mailto:LRifkin@FOLGER.EDU] Sent: Friday, 22 June 2001 1:29 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: the age of audio Hello all, Emerging out of lurkerdom with a couple of queries: Who has written well about the significance of the poetry reading and audio documentation in the last 50 years of poetry culture? I know about Bernstein ed., *Close Listening,* Michael Davidson's great chapter on tapevoice in *Ghostlier Demarcations,* and Ammiel Alcalay's recent Times Op/Ed. Anyone read/written anything else good? Beyond the Poetry Project, Naropa, and The Poetry Archives at SFSU, what would you say are the most important audio poetry archives? Thanks! Libbie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:11:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Re: absurd poetry In-Reply-To: <20010621.103625.-234633.1.holsapple1@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill Knott. Recent "Boston Review" has poem by him for checking out. --- Bruce Holsapple wrote: > Philip Whalen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:15:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lytle Shaw Subject: DeGraff, Mac Low, Mlinko at The Drawing Center June 26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Chris, Could you post this? June 26th at 7pm In New York City In conjunction with the exhibition, “Between Street and Mirror: The Drawings of James Ensor,” the Line Reading Series at The Drawing Center presents: Adam DeGraff Jackson Mac Low Ange Mlinko Adam DeGraff’s self-published chapbooks include, Uncle (1995) and The Hawaii Poems (2000). No Man's Sleep is forthcoming from Shark. His poems and essays have appeared in Idiom, Chain, Shark, and Log. DeGraff is an editor of Idiom in San Francisco, where he lives. Jackson Mac Low is author of over 25 books of poetry, including Verdurous Sanguinaria (Southern University, 1967), Asymmetries 1-260 (Printed Editions, 1980), From Pearl Harbor Day to FDR’s Birthday (Sun and Moon, 1982), Twenties (Roof, 1991), Pieces o’ Six (Sun and Moon, 1992), and Barnesbook (Sun and Moon, 1996). His work has been anthologized widely. Also an artist and composer, Mac Low lives in New York City. Ange Mlinko is author of Matinees (Zoland, 1999). Her work has appeared in magazines including The World, Lingo, The Hat and Combo. Mlinko currently edits The Poetry Project Newsletter and lives in New York. The Drawing Center is located at 35 Wooster Street, btwn. Grand and Broome. Admission is $5; free to Drawing Center Members ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:16:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Ann Vickery Subject: Correction to _Leaving Lines of Gender_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Poetics List, Nate Dorward has just pointed out to me a couple of errors regarding my discussion of _The New British Poetry_ collection in my chapter on anthologies in _Leaving Lines of Gender_. Due to a proofing error, the date of publication reads 1998 rather than 1988. More importantly, however, I had mistaken Gael Turnbull for a woman which the biographical notes at the back quickly dispel. My apologies to Gael for this. I would also like to add that I found _The New British Poetry_ an excellent anthology and had only wanted to make the point that the four categories (edited by four different people) tended to create a few artificial distinctions between writers who did have much in common. Best, Ann Vickery ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:03:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I may be wrong about this, but wasn't Rita Dove the Poet Laureate in between Kunitz and Pinsky? Talk about erasure! Marcella > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:23:43 -0400 > From: Ron Silliman > Subject: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration > > Well, he is the perfect reflection of a certain world view. > > Ron > > ----------------- > > Wednesday June 20 8:48 PM ET > > Collins Named U.S. Poet Laureate > > By CARL HARTMAN, Associated Press Writer > > WASHINGTON (AP) - Billy Collins, a popular poet who makes money at the > job, > was named Wednesday as the 11th U.S. poet laureate. > > Collins can collect $2,000 for a single reading of his poetry and Random > House has reportedly offered him a publishing contract of at least > $100,000 > for three books. > > He also is a distinguished professor of English at Lehman College in > Somers, > N.Y. > > His one-year post as laureate will net him a $35,000 salary, a Washington > office at the Library of Congress (news - web sites) and few duties except > to give more readings. > > Collins, born in 1941, succeeds 95-year-old Stanley Kunitz and Robert > Pinsky, whose project to collect Americans' favorite poems drew the > participation of President Clinton (news - web sites) and first lady > Hillary > Rodham Clinton (news - web sites). > > There's no problem interpreting Collins' poetry. He has written a sonnet > in > the conventional 14 lines but with little regard for such matters as rhyme > or meter. Four of the lines read: > > ``How easily it goes unless you get Elizabethan > > and insist the iambic bongos must be played > > and rhymes positioned at the end of lines > > one for every station of the cross.'' > > He wrote one poem about a neighbor's barking dog who annoyed him so much > that he started playing a Beethoven record to drown out the noise. > > ``... but I can still hear him muffled under the music > > barking, barking, barking > > ... and now I see him sitting in the orchestra > > his head raised confidently > > as if Beethoven had included a part for barking dog.'' > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:37:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Igor Satanovsky Subject: Re: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I was certainly looking forward to see the first Poetry Laureate appointment of this administration, and it did not disappoint :--)) . i.s. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:25:15 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 19 Jun 2001 to 20 Jun 2001 (#2001-89) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Pull My Daisy (starring Ginsberg, Kerouacand Corso as Groucho, Harpo and >Chico. Forget the name of the guy who plays Zeppo. Plenty offun!) wasn't it larry rivers? or someone like that? david amram? notthat they're like each other... Haha! Zeppo's be Amram, my guess, with his Fench horn harp and mass o'cyrls. Larry plays the railroad Papa of the Franks' loft. Bob Holman * 173 Duane Street #2 * New York, NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 * F: 212-334-6415 * holman@Bard.edu * poetry.about.com* www.worldofpoetry.org * www.peoplespoetry.org www.bobholman.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:49:47 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Our "Accessible" New Poet Laureate, Billy Collins Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Life is rushing by like a mad swollen river?" That's supposed to be accessible? Surely only another poet could appreciate such a brilliantly apt, original, and deep simile. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:12:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: absurd poetry In-Reply-To: <20010621.103625.-234633.1.holsapple1@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:32 AM -0600 6/21/01, Bruce Holsapple wrote: >Philip Whalen joanne kyger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:11:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: the age of audio In-Reply-To: <88539F4A9A5C3041B06A234AA2ABDB58027A94@portia.folger.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i don't know if yo're interested in radio, but martin spinelli (brooklyn college? cuny grad center?) and zofia burr (george mason Univ) are both (i think) writing about poetry and radio. At 9:28 AM -0400 6/21/01, Libbie Rifkin wrote: >Hello all, > >Emerging out of lurkerdom with a couple of queries: > >Who has written well about the significance of the poetry reading and >audio documentation in the last 50 years of poetry culture? I know about >Bernstein ed., *Close Listening,* Michael Davidson's great chapter on >tapevoice in *Ghostlier Demarcations,* and Ammiel Alcalay's recent Times >Op/Ed. Anyone read/written anything else good? > >Beyond the Poetry Project, Naropa, and The Poetry Archives at SFSU, what >would you say are the most important audio poetry archives? > >Thanks! >Libbie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:40:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Censorship at the National Press Club Comments: To: BBlum6@aol.com, flpoint@hotmail.com, ibid1@earthlink.net, moyercdmm@earthlink.net, CMJBalso@aol.com, alphavil@ix.netcom.com, harrysandy@kreative.net, derekvdt@academypo.fss.fss.pvt.k12.pa.us, Amzemel@aol.com, working-class-list@listserv.liunet.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subj: [corp-focus] Censorship at the National Press Club Date: 06/22/2001 11:34:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: rob@milan.essential.org (Robert Weissman) Sender: corp-focus-admin@lists.essential.org To: corp-focus@venice.essential.org Censorship at the National Press Club By Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman Henry Kissinger came to the National Press Club here in Washington, D.C. last night to give a talk, sell his latest book, Does America Need a Foreign Policy? and take questions from an audience of about 300 people. We weren't as interested in the talk or the book as much as the question period. We figured, correctly as it turned out, that Henry hadn't change over the years -- his unspoken theory of foreign policy was still the same: the corporate state -- including his client corporations -- should dictate the country's foreign policy. As usual, his words barely masked that reality. But scattered throughout the ballroom at the Press Club were little white note cards for questions, and it appeared that perhaps 100 questions were scribbled and sent up to the moderator, Richard Koonce, a member of the Press Club's book and author committee. It was Koonce's job to sift through the questions, pick out some interesting ones, and ask Henry some probing questions. This system seemed to work well at luncheon talks, where the past three presidents of the Press Club -- Doug Harbrecht of Business Week, John Cushman of the New York Times and Dick Ryan of the Detroit News -- would ask speakers some pretty tough and newsworthy questions. We never got the sense that Press Club moderators were pulling punches. Last night, things changed. Earlier this year, Harper's magazine published a two-part series of articles by British journalist Christopher Hitchens, "The Case Against Henry Kissinger that has since been published as a book, The Trial of Henry Kissinger (Verso). Hitchens has drawn up an indictment, charged Kissinger with war crimes, and is begging some government to go after the former Secretary of State under Richard Nixon for the killings of innocents in Laos, Cambodia, South America, East Timor and elsewhere. Magistrates in three countries -- Chile, Argentina, and France -- have responded and summoned Kissinger to answer questions. Le Monde reported earlier this month that when French Judge Roger Le Loire had a summons served on Kissinger on May 31 at the Ritz Hotel in Paris, Kissinger promptly left the hotel, and then left town. The judge wanted to ask Kissinger about his knowledge of Operation Condor, an effort by the dictators of South America to kill or "disappear" dissidents. The fact that Kissinger was being sought for questioning didn't make the mainstream media here in the United States, until yesterday's New York Times reported that the Chilean judge wanted Kissinger to "testify about the disappearance of an American in Chile when the dictator Augusto Pinochet seized power in the 1970s." Kissinger began lashing back at Hitchens last week, not by answering the substance of Hitchen's argument, but by smearing the journalist. Kissinger told Detroit radio talk show host Mitch Albom that Hitchens had "denied the Holocaust ever took place." In response, Hitchens, who says both and he his wife are Jewish, told the New York Post: "Mr. Kissinger will be hearing from my attorney, who will tell him two things he already knows -- what he said is false, malicious and defamatory, and if he says it again, we will proceed against him in court." So, you can imagine that the Press Club audience had questions. And so did we. We wrote down six questions -- about the report in the Times, Kissinger's interview with Albom, the incident at the Ritz Hotel in Paris, Hitchen's articles in Harper's, about the three magistrates and simply this one: "If you are indicted for war crimes, will you defend yourself in court?" We met a friend there who told us that in the 1970s, when Kissinger was asked about the bombing of Laos and Cambodia, he responded this way: "sometimes we have to operate outside the law." Her question to Kissinger: "How do you square that with our Constitutional values?" Koonce had other ideas. He lofted six or seven puff balls about Kissinger in China, about Kissinger on Nixon, about his generic views of foreign policy. Nothing about war crimes, nothing about operating outside the law, nothing about Hitchens. After the event, we sought out Koonce. "Was there an agreement with Dr. Kissinger not to ask questions related to Christopher Hitchens and allegations of war crimes?" To our surprise, Koonce did not deny it. "There was a definite sensitivity to that," Koonce said. "He [Kissinger] was afraid that if we got into a discussion of that, for the vast majority of people that, it would take so much time to explain all of the context, that you know, he preferred to avoid that, and so . . ." And so Kissinger's wishes were accommodated and the questions were avoided. We asked Koonce how many written questions dealt with Hitchens or war crimes? Two or three, Koonce said. We knew this not to be true. We handed up six ourselves. And we suspect that there were many more. (Only Kissinger knows for sure, since it's Press Club policy to deliver the written questions to the guest after the event.) According to Press Club standards, these book events must be held in accordance with the Club's "Code of Ethics." So, we want to know -- how can it be ethical to agree secretly with an author before hand not to ask a certain set of questions? We're tracking down the Code of Ethics. Stay tuned. Russell Mokhiber is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Corporate Crime Reporter. Robert Weissman is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Multinational Monitor. They are co-authors of Corporate Predators: The Hunt for MegaProfits and the Attack on Democracy (Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press, 1999). (c) Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman _______________________________________________ Focus on the Corporation is a weekly column written by Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman. Please feel free to forward the column to friends or repost the column on other lists. If you would like to post the column on a web site or publish it in print format, we ask that you first contact us (russell@essential.org or rob@essential.org). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:02:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laurie macrae Subject: re poetry archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:14:05 -0700 (PDT) > > From: laurie macrae > > Subject: to Libbie re audio archives > > To: POETICS@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Hi Libbie- > > I don't know if you mean exclusively audio, as in > > excluding video, but the Taos Poetry Circus has > been > > video taping its readings for twenty years. > Included > > are folks like Waldman,Rothenberg,Ginsberg, > Alexie, > > Shange, Troupe, Codrescu, Hollo,Hollman, > > Pomy-Vega,Madueno, Goodell and the totally unknown > > Laurie Macrae. > > Even if you are ambivalent (as I am) about the > > competitive events, they have a terrific series of > > readings each year that are just readings - no > > competition. You can order from them direct. > > www.poetrycircus.org > > Then there's the Library of Congress, where I > spent > > many happy hours as a teenager listening to great > > poetry on record and tape when I was supposed to > be > > in > > high school. > > Laurie Macrae > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:02:59 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: if I toke too quickly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Please note the following errata in my recent communications with the list: for "Haas" read "Hass" for "Billy Collins" read "Billy Elliot" for "Nudel" read "Madhabuti" for "Funkhouser" read "Funkhouser" for "absurd poetry" read "absorbed prettily" for "Ruben Ruben" read "A Fine Madness" for "white guy revenge fantasies" read "recent cinema" for "Wonder Boys" read "Rueben Rueben" for "what it's worth" read "Homer" for "Barfly" read. "Why don't they stop throwing symbols?" --Bob Kaufman Aldon L. Nielsen The George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literture Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:09:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: publication announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PUBLICATION ANNOUNCEMENT Factory School, a learning and production collective based in San Diego, California, is proud to announce the August 1st publication of HEKA, by Michael Basinski; La detencíon del tiempo by Reina María Rodríguez; and The Thirdest World: 3 Stories from Filipino Writers. HEKA by Michael Basinski ISBN 0-9711863-0-8 Fifteen Dollars. 140 pages. Handbound. Poetry and performance scores. Lush and complete, HEKA represents the most extensive presentation of Basinski work anywhere. A must-have. Listen to Basinski read parts of HEKA at the Factory School Audio Library. Signed limited edition available. La detencíon del tiempo by Reina María Rodríguez ISBN 0-9711863-1-6 Ten Dollars. 40 pages. Stapled chapbook. Poetry. In Spanish and English. An extraordinary bilingual collection of poetry by an important Cuban poet. Translator’s note by scholar and poet Kristin Dykstra helps explain some of the context for this publication. Signed limited edition available. The Thirdest World: 3 Stories from Filipino Writers ISBN 0-9711863-2-4 Ten Dollars. 52 pages. Stapled chapbook. Fiction. This stirring anthology presents a trio of New York-based Filipino writers challenging the boundaries of cultural writing. The collection includes stories by Gina Apostol, Eric Gamalinda and a story and an essay by Lara Stapleton. Signed limited edition available. Available from: 1341 Seventh Street Berkeley, CA 94710-1409 800.869.7553 www.spdbooks.org spd@spdbooks.org Factory School is a learning and production collective based in San Diego, California. Organizing content for public use, Factory School explores opportunities for rapid and efficient cultural exchange provided by networked computers, desktop publishing, and other high and low technologies of distribution. In addition to poetry and literature, Factory School is also a developer of educational materials, multiple media art, social commentary, and intercultural documents in a variety of formats, including web-based installations, streaming audio and video, CD-ROMs, books, posters and pamphlets. Factory School (www.factoryschool.org) evolved out of the paper publishing ventures of Meow Press and PaperBrainPress, as well as the web-based Sunbrella Network, a display, broadcast and resource platform also based in San Diego. For more information, please contact: custodian@factoryschool.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 00:00:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: <200106191643.JAA23706@pegasus.azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Leonardo diCaprio as Rimbaud whoa mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of charles alexander Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 9:43 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films Total Eclipse, directed by Polish director Agnieszka Holland, is about the relationship of Rimbaud and Verlaine. Leonardo diCaprio as Rimbaud, and David Thewlis as Verlaine. charles At 05:33 PM 6/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: >What comes to mind: > > Tom & Viv (Eliot. Hated it) > Barfly (kinda about Bukowski. Liked it) > Poetic Justice (not really about a poet but it does include some >verse by Maya Angelou. Hated it) > Mrs. Parker and the Viscious Circle (Dorothy et al. Liked it) > Henry and June (on Miller & Nin, kinda fun, I thought) > Il Postino (Neruda. Skiped it) > >--JGallaher >----------------------- >For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles >that portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or >even minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th >century poets. Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! > >Thom Swiss >thomas.swiss@drake.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:24:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Bentley Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 20 Jun 2001 to 21 Jun 2001 (#2001-90) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/01 12:10:25 PM, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: << Well, he is the perfect reflection of a certain world view. Ron ----------------- Wednesday June 20 8:48 PM ET Collins Named U.S. Poet Laureate By CARL HARTMAN, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - Billy Collins, a popular poet who makes money at the job, was named Wednesday as the 11th U.S. poet laureate. Collins can collect $2,000 for a single reading of his poetry and Random House has reportedly offered him a publishing contract of at least $100,000 for three books. He also is a distinguished professor of English at Lehman College in Somers, N.Y. His one-year post as laureate will net him a $35,000 salary, a Washington office at the Library of Congress (news - web sites) and few duties except to give more readings. >> Really! Poet Laureate only gets 35 thou per year! Jeez! It's interesting (or pathetic)--isnt it?--that Hartman's lead is all about money, as if a poet's good if s/he can bring down $2,000 for "a single reading." How many for three readings? A package deal of $5,000? I get $500.00 and change per class as a veteran adjunct professor. How about y'all? Oh well. Just jealous, I suppose. Hey, Ron. --Scott Bentley ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:29:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Bentley Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 20 Jun 2001 to 21 Jun 2001 (#2001-90) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/01 12:10:25 PM, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: << Andrea Baker >> Andrea, check out Bill Luoma. His books include: MY TRIP TO NEW YORK CITY; WESTERN LOVE; WORKS AND DAYS; SWOON ROCKETS, and some others. You'll like it. --Bentley ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:29:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fred Muratori Subject: Re: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration In-Reply-To: <71EAF6EBA863D2119C4F0008C74CA78E021B98D6@PSI-MS1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dove came before Pinsky -- before Robert Hass, in fact -- and held the position from 1993 - 1995. There's a complete list of laureates at http://poetry.about.com/arts/poetry/library/weekly/aa101497.htm?terms=laurea te I strongly doubt that the omission of Dove's name from the article suggests anything sinister. -- Fred M. At 09:03 AM 6/22/01 -0500, you wrote: > I may be wrong about this, but wasn't Rita Dove the Poet Laureate in >between Kunitz and Pinsky? > > Talk about erasure! > > Marcella > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:23:43 -0400 > > From: Ron Silliman > > Subject: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration > > > > Well, he is the perfect reflection of a certain world view. > > > > Ron > > > > ----------------- > > > > Wednesday June 20 8:48 PM ET > > > > Collins Named U.S. Poet Laureate > > > > By CARL HARTMAN, Associated Press Writer > > > > WASHINGTON (AP) - Billy Collins, a popular poet who makes money at the > > job, > > was named Wednesday as the 11th U.S. poet laureate. > > > > Collins can collect $2,000 for a single reading of his poetry and Random > > House has reportedly offered him a publishing contract of at least > > $100,000 > > for three books. > > > > He also is a distinguished professor of English at Lehman College in > > Somers, > > N.Y. > > > > His one-year post as laureate will net him a $35,000 salary, a Washington > > office at the Library of Congress (news - web sites) and few duties except > > to give more readings. > > > > Collins, born in 1941, succeeds 95-year-old Stanley Kunitz and Robert > > Pinsky, whose project to collect Americans' favorite poems drew the > > participation of President Clinton (news - web sites) and first lady > > Hillary > > Rodham Clinton (news - web sites). > > > > There's no problem interpreting Collins' poetry. He has written a sonnet > > in > > the conventional 14 lines but with little regard for such matters as rhyme > > or meter. Four of the lines read: > > > > ``How easily it goes unless you get Elizabethan > > > > and insist the iambic bongos must be played > > > > and rhymes positioned at the end of lines > > > > one for every station of the cross.'' > > > > He wrote one poem about a neighbor's barking dog who annoyed him so much > > that he started playing a Beethoven record to drown out the noise. > > > > ``... but I can still hear him muffled under the music > > > > barking, barking, barking > > > > ... and now I see him sitting in the orchestra > > > > his head raised confidently > > > > as if Beethoven had included a part for barking dog.'' > > > > ******************************************************** Fred Muratori (fmm1@cornell.edu) Reference Services Division Olin * Kroch * Uris Libraries Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 WWW: http://fmref.library.cornell.edu/spectra.html ********************************************************* "The spaces between things keep getting bigger and more important." - John Ashbery ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:41:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Scharf, Michael (Cahners -NYC)" Subject: Williams pere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A favor - a friend's query: "Any idea what exactly Williams' father did for a living? Standard reference works, and in fact Paul Mariani's mammoth biography, just say 'businessman' or 'export-import'." Thanks much for any leads -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:53:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Laureates Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello all. Here is the list of U.S. Poet Laureates. 1986-1987 Robert Penn Warren 1987-1988 Richard Wilbur 1988-1990 Howard Nemerov 1990-1991 Mark Strand 1991-1992 Joseph Brodsky 1992-1993 Mona Van Duyn 1993-1995 Rita Dove 1995-1997 Robert Hass 1997-2000 Robert Pinsky 2000-2001 Stanley Kunitz 2001- Billy Collins Have a great weekend. Jim ----Original Message Follows---- From: Marcella Durand < Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:03:51 -0500 I may be wrong about this, but wasn't Rita Dove the Poet Laureate in between Kunitz and Pinsky? Talk about erasure! Marcella > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:23:43 -0400 > From: Ron Silliman > Subject: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration > > Well, he is the perfect reflection of a certain world view. > > Ron > > ----------------- > > Wednesday June 20 8:48 PM ET > > Collins Named U.S. Poet Laureate > > By CARL HARTMAN, Associated Press Writer > > WASHINGTON (AP) - Billy Collins, a popular poet who makes money at the > job, > was named Wednesday as the 11th U.S. poet laureate. > > Collins can collect $2,000 for a single reading of his poetry and Random > House has reportedly offered him a publishing contract of at least > $100,000 > for three books. > > He also is a distinguished professor of English at Lehman College in > Somers, > N.Y. > > His one-year post as laureate will net him a $35,000 salary, a Washington > office at the Library of Congress (news - web sites) and few duties except > to give more readings. > > Collins, born in 1941, succeeds 95-year-old Stanley Kunitz and Robert > Pinsky, whose project to collect Americans' favorite poems drew the > participation of President Clinton (news - web sites) and first lady > Hillary > Rodham Clinton (news - web sites). > > There's no problem interpreting Collins' poetry. He has written a sonnet > in > the conventional 14 lines but with little regard for such matters as rhyme > or meter. Four of the lines read: > > ``How easily it goes unless you get Elizabethan > > and insist the iambic bongos must be played > > and rhymes positioned at the end of lines > > one for every station of the cross.'' > > He wrote one poem about a neighbor's barking dog who annoyed him so much > that he started playing a Beethoven record to drown out the noise. > > ``... but I can still hear him muffled under the music > > barking, barking, barking > > ... and now I see him sitting in the orchestra > > his head raised confidently > > as if Beethoven had included a part for barking dog.'' > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:51:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: Eileen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All, I'm late on this but I didn't take Eileen's comment as an attack on anything but the idea of "art" as being somehow separate from "life" -- ye olde art=scary or life=cushy or v-v. I didn't take it as an indication of her class resentments, in other words (and wouldn't be bold enough to try to define anyone's statements as such), but simply as an irritation with the ways a writer's life is sometimes framed. I had a slight problem with the girl culture she referred to, although I am all for girls, but aren't we all in it together? (shouldn't say that on this list!) And on topic here at work, our spt web site is getting spruced up this summer. I'll let you know when it's up. Happy 2nd day of summer, Elizabeth Treadwell Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 Eighth Street San Francisco, California 94107 415/551-9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:44:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Laureates In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Hello all. > >Here is the list of U.S. Poet Laureates. > >1986-1987 Robert Penn Warren >1987-1988 Richard Wilbur >1988-1990 Howard Nemerov >1990-1991 Mark Strand >1991-1992 Joseph Brodsky >1992-1993 Mona Van Duyn >1993-1995 Rita Dove >1995-1997 Robert Hass >1997-2000 Robert Pinsky >2000-2001 Stanley Kunitz >2001- Billy Collins Good God! It is no better than the list of US presidents! -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:59:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Williams pere In-Reply-To: <517FA14C1A28D411BBA300508B63564401E30562@BINNYCEXC002> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > A favor - a friend's query: > > "Any idea what exactly Williams' father did for a living? Standard reference > works, and in fact Paul Mariani's mammoth biography, just say 'businessman' > or 'export-import'." "Cornelius Coffin Williams, was a shoe salesman who spent a great deal of his time away from the family." (http://www.lambda.net/~maximum/williams.html) "Jesse Winson Williams... [and his family] earned their living by picking fruit and cotton. Williams' father died of tuberculosis when she was eight years old, and her mother died when Williams was 16." (http://voices.cla.umn.edu/authors/SherleyAnneWilliams.html) "My father was the slave of an orphan family whose name I have forgotten, and was under the care of a Mr. Brooks, guardian of the family." (http://docsouth.unc.edu/williams/williams.html) "'My father was...not well-educated,' [Billy Dee Williams] says. 'He worked all his life to take care of his family.'" (http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/asian/Article_Detail.asp?Article_ID=355 5) "The offspring of famous musicians often have a hard time creating a career for themselves, yet Hank Williams, Jr. is one of the few to develop a career that is not only successful, but markedly different from his legendary father." (http://www.alamhof.org/willhjr.htm) -Aaron Belz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:56:08 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Re: Laureates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm waiting for the first gay poet laureate. Or did I miss someone??? Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Behrle" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 10:53 AM Subject: Laureates > Hello all. > > Here is the list of U.S. Poet Laureates. > > 1986-1987 Robert Penn Warren > 1987-1988 Richard Wilbur > 1988-1990 Howard Nemerov > 1990-1991 Mark Strand > 1991-1992 Joseph Brodsky > 1992-1993 Mona Van Duyn > 1993-1995 Rita Dove > 1995-1997 Robert Hass > 1997-2000 Robert Pinsky > 2000-2001 Stanley Kunitz > 2001- Billy Collins > > Have a great weekend. > Jim > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Marcella Durand < > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration > Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:03:51 -0500 > > I may be wrong about this, but wasn't Rita Dove the Poet Laureate > in > between Kunitz and Pinsky? > > Talk about erasure! > > Marcella > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:23:43 -0400 > > From: Ron Silliman > > Subject: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration > > > > Well, he is the perfect reflection of a certain world view. > > > > Ron > > > > ----------------- > > > > Wednesday June 20 8:48 PM ET > > > > Collins Named U.S. Poet Laureate > > > > By CARL HARTMAN, Associated Press Writer > > > > WASHINGTON (AP) - Billy Collins, a popular poet who makes money at the > > job, > > was named Wednesday as the 11th U.S. poet laureate. > > > > Collins can collect $2,000 for a single reading of his poetry and Random > > House has reportedly offered him a publishing contract of at least > > $100,000 > > for three books. > > > > He also is a distinguished professor of English at Lehman College in > > Somers, > > N.Y. > > > > His one-year post as laureate will net him a $35,000 salary, a Washington > > office at the Library of Congress (news - web sites) and few duties > except > > to give more readings. > > > > Collins, born in 1941, succeeds 95-year-old Stanley Kunitz and Robert > > Pinsky, whose project to collect Americans' favorite poems drew the > > participation of President Clinton (news - web sites) and first lady > > Hillary > > Rodham Clinton (news - web sites). > > > > There's no problem interpreting Collins' poetry. He has written a sonnet > > in > > the conventional 14 lines but with little regard for such matters as > rhyme > > or meter. Four of the lines read: > > > > ``How easily it goes unless you get Elizabethan > > > > and insist the iambic bongos must be played > > > > and rhymes positioned at the end of lines > > > > one for every station of the cross.'' > > > > He wrote one poem about a neighbor's barking dog who annoyed him so much > > that he started playing a Beethoven record to drown out the noise. > > > > ``... but I can still hear him muffled under the music > > > > barking, barking, barking > > > > ... and now I see him sitting in the orchestra > > > > his head raised confidently > > > > as if Beethoven had included a part for barking dog.'' > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:57:11 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 20 Jun 2001 to 21 Jun 2001 (#2001-90) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also includes DEAR DAD, available from Tinfish for $5. Highly recommended. Well, of course, I published it. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bentley" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 6:29 AM Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 20 Jun 2001 to 21 Jun 2001 (#2001-90) > In a message dated 6/22/01 12:10:25 PM, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > writes: > > << Andrea Baker >> > > Andrea, > > check out Bill Luoma. His books include: MY TRIP TO NEW YORK CITY; WESTERN > LOVE; WORKS AND DAYS; SWOON ROCKETS, and some others. You'll like it. > > --Bentley ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:07:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: "Boom Boom Boom Boom" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John Lee Hooker "If I couldn't play the Blues, I'd be miserable." @ 83, gone to cover the waterfront. " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 21:53:57 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: fare thee well john lee hooker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/2001 4:16:40 PM, dbchirot1@AOL.COM writes: << john lee hooker the great blues singer died today a great musician and poet fare thee well dear old friend >> Sigh. William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:27:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Potter Subject: Re: absurd poetry Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit John Olson, Echo Regime (Black Square Editions) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 21:44:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: the age of audio? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:11:30 -0600 > From: Maria Damon > Subject: Re: the age of audio > > i don't know if yo're interested in radio, but martin spinelli (brooklyn > college? cuny grad center?) and zofia burr (george mason Univ) are both (i > think) writing about poetry and radio. > > At 9:28 AM -0400 6/21/01, Libbie Rifkin wrote: > >Hello all, > > > >Emerging out of lurkerdom with a couple of queries: > > > >Who has written well about the significance of the poetry reading and > >audio documentation in the last 50 years of poetry culture? I know about > >Bernstein ed., *Close Listening,* Michael Davidson's great chapter on > >tapevoice in *Ghostlier Demarcations,* and Ammiel Alcalay's recent Times > >Op/Ed. Anyone read/written anything else good? > > > >Beyond the Poetry Project, Naropa, and The Poetry Archives at SFSU, what > >would you say are the most important audio poetry archives? > > > >Thanks! > >Libbie I don't know how much has been written on taped poetry readings. I was trying to find a web link to an audio cassette series that I couldn't remember the name of, couldn't find it or remember it, but did run across http://www.laurable.com/sites.html , which has a large collection of links to sites concerned with recorded poetry. And http://www.poetrymagazine.org/pip_cassettes.html has quite a few. There's no end of such links if you go to a search engine on the web and search for "poetry cassettes" or "audio poetry" or such. Those links would probably take you to the writings you're looking for. Most of these audio recordings will be bookish, not sound poetry or audio writing, which I find more interesting and which has been written about more than taped recordings of poets reading their print poems, but to each her own. And, yes, Martin Spinelli has done some wonderful work at the Electronic Poetry Center at http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/spinelli . You might also enjoy the work of Gregory Whitehead at http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=17493&pageid=r&mode=ALL&query=gregor y+whitehad at ubu.com. Also, Helen Thorington produced a series called New American Radio in the eighties and early nineties (she now does www.turbulence.org), some of which is reachable from http://www.somewhere.org/NAR/NAR_home.htm . This has some writings about the art of radio/recorded sound, many of which are by people with a background in writing. Hope this helps. Regards, Jim Andrews www.vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 02:20:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - , Susan Graham, "forever have i seen your face , Susan Graham, "you have followed me, your muscles taut in your great shoulders , Susan Graham, "your legs thick and mighty, your tendons stretched and ready * Susan Graham is ready for you * Susan Graham is ready for you, your arms bound with bands of sinew , Susan Graham, "your neck thick, your eyes piercing me , Susan Graham, "piercing my heart, piercing my mouth, my eyes , Susan Graham, "i am bound to you, turned to you, your chest pulsing with pride , Susan Graham, "you have turned me towards you forever , Susan Graham, "forever have i seen your mighty face, i have shown you mine , Susan Graham, "you have torn open my heart, it beats in daylight, bleeding , Susan Graham, "my soul in bleeding night, my soul escaping into your mighty arms , Susan Graham, "you have taken me over your shoulders taut with heavy muscle , Susan Graham, "you have torn into me, i have begged you, tear me apart * Susan Graham is torn open, slung across your mighty back, bound to it * Susan Graham awaits you, pierces you with her cries, her thick desires , Susan Graham, "i scream and tear you harshly, and you respond, your mighty voice heavy with desire , Susan Graham, "forever i have seen you, forever followed you, just as you have followed me, just as you have pierced me, desired me, bound me with your mighty arms, bound with mighty sinew , Susan Graham, "i have taken you * Susan Graham has taken you, to the quick and point of your mighty flesh, to the breach and struggle of your mighty arms , Susan Graham, "you are bound to Susan Graham , Susan Graham, "with mighty sinew, bound to Susan Graham _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:44:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i'd be more interested in hearing from poets who make films or have made films,,the poet as a star gives 'em too much leash given generally they prefigure a self importance beyond the goodly triflings they make //pete spence > > Leonardo diCaprio as Rimbaud > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 06:54:09 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Laureates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > > I'm waiting for the first gay poet laureate. Or did I miss someone??? Well, except that I do think the first three on the list fairly good poets, my impression is that thinking a homosexual poet should be on it is an insult to the level of poetic accomplishment of homosexual poets. What's interesting to me about the list is that, if you take out Rita Dove, and add Frost at the beginning, since he was long the unofficial poet laureate, each poet on the list is more mediocre than the previous one. McKuen surely has to be next, but who after him? --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 08:12:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r....mo po $$$ mo..... with all this ringin' in my ears forgot to post these.. ....THE NUTTY PROF..THE CLUMPS..PART 11...the Robert Kelly Story...with Gary Snyder as thin...& Phillip Whalen as not tooo thin...the amibiguities of the spirit meet the exigencies of the flesh... ....DEATH IN VENICE...starring Al Ginsberg as our anti-hero..."Leo" Di Caprio as alternately Peter Orlovsky...Himself...& the alluring youth...Trungpa Rimpoche and the Regent as the Plague...shooting has been moved to Boulder to cut production costs...a more operatic version with cult music by Phillip Glass... ....N.B...to be or not to be...is a polish production which will take decades to complete...English SubTitles by deconstructing the script process.... from the campanile...DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 06:55:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii even the third one - i'd say "distinguished"=$$$$ 'course i guess i am just being cynical is it *possible* to be a poet w/o being a professor, MFA grad or the like? seems to be fewer and fewer these days - welcome to the great filtering mechanism of our culture - separating the (career specialist) wheat from the (unvarnished masses) chaff - not that i am saying anything that hasn't been said a thousand times... namaste michael > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:03:52 -0700 > From: charles alexander > Subject: Re: First Laureate of the Bush (II) > Administration > > Very telling that the first two paragraphs of > the article, as well as the > fourth, focus on money. Poetry and money. > That's the key, I guess. And I > notice that every paragraph is a one-sentence > paragraph. Now that's writing. > > charles > > At 10:23 PM 6/20/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >Well, he is the perfect reflection of a > certain world view. > > > >Ron > > > >----------------- > > > >Wednesday June 20 8:48 PM ET > > > >Collins Named U.S. Poet Laureate > > > >By CARL HARTMAN, Associated Press Writer > > > >WASHINGTON (AP) - Billy Collins, a popular > poet who makes money at the job, > >was named Wednesday as the 11th U.S. poet > laureate. > > > >Collins can collect $2,000 for a single > reading of his poetry and Random > >House has reportedly offered him a publishing > contract of at least $100,000 > >for three books. > > > >He also is a distinguished professor of > English at Lehman College in Somers, > >N.Y. > > > >His one-year post as laureate will net him a > $35,000 salary, a Washington > >office at the Library of Congress (news - web > sites) and few duties except > >to give more readings. > ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 10:24:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Bentley Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 21 Jun 2001 to 22 Jun 2001 (#2001-91) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/23/01 12:10:44 PM, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: << what would you say are the most important audio poetry archives? >> At UCSD they've got the Archive for New American Poetry, which is hugely extensive and "important." Before entering one has to wear gloves and be de-loused and leave a social security card up at the front desk. So, that must make it important, right? No, really. It's a good archive. They've got a whole bunch of very compelling Larry Eigner stuff (documents, drafts, ephemera, signed first editions, etc.) which I worked on when I was there. There's a great audio tape and a video tape as well (of Eigner). They've got everybody's number since 1950, and the library looks like a space ship. Scott Bentley ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 09:25:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: barr Subject: Re: Williams pere William George Williams was a merchant in Puerto Plata before moving to the US. In 1882, he moved to New York--where he became adverting manager for Lanman and Kemp, a NY company that manufactured cologne and exported it to South America. He worked there for 35 years. See Mariani, pages 8-10. Brandon Barr University of Rochester --- > A favor - a friend's query: > > "Any idea what exactly Williams' father did for a living? > Standard reference > works, and in fact Paul Mariani's mammoth biography, just > say 'businessman' > or 'export-import'." > > Thanks much for any leads -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 10:33:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 24 May 2001 to 26 May 2001 (#2001-77) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel, Gizzi says, "William Carlos Williams once wrote 'If it ain't a pleasure it ain't a poem." Not quite (far as I know). He did speak these lines (?) between poems in a reading which I heard via Harvard tapes and consequently used as audio epigraph for "United States of Poetry" tv series. Bob Bob Holman * 173 Duane Street #2 * New York, NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 * F: 212-334-6415 * holman@Bard.edu * poetry.about.com* www.worldofpoetry.org * www.peoplespoetry.org www.bobholman.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 12:59:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 21 Jun 2001 to 22 Jun 2001 (#2001-91) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Hazard in St. Paul has made some great poetry movies including one of Jim Northrup, kids doing Issa haiku, and Eugene McCarthy as poet... thecie@pobic.com Bob Holman * 173 Duane Street #2 * New York, NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 * F: 212-334-6415 * holman@Bard.edu * poetry.about.com* www.worldofpoetry.org * www.peoplespoetry.org www.bobholman.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 14:25:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T Pelton Subject: The Poets that Laurie Ate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Tell me the poets that Laurie ate That Laurie ate That Laurie ate Tell me the poets that Laurie ate And I will turn tired and sleep Collins and Kunitz and Robert Pinsky Never the one did anything risky Hass and Dove and Mona Van Duyn All got that 35,000 in coin Brodsky, Strand and How Nemerov My that is a persistent cough Richard Wilbur and Robert Penn Warren Take that syrup & start a-pourin' These are the poets that Laurie ate That Laurie ate That Laurie ate These are the poets that Laurie ate And now I'm gonna be sick Ted Pelton ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:32:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Eileen/Ginsberg on art and commerce Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi again all, Christopher Luna the Great sent this my way and I though it fit in to the discussion of the NYT piece on Eileen Myles. By the bye, I am so happy to see her getting such deserved attn! Elizabeth >Dear friends, > >There is an excellent piece in Allen Ginsberg's "Spontaneous Mind: Selected >Interviews 1958-1996," edited by David Carter for Harper Collins, that made >me think of all my friends out there struggling to create in an often >unappreciative world. Steve Foehr asks Ginsberg, "What is the relation >between art and commerce?" and he gives one of the best responses I have ever >heard on the subject. Here is just a short excerpt: > >"Art is an activity completely independent of commerce. It has nothing to do >with publication or public acceptance. That's always been true; art has >nothing to do with fame, publication, or public acceptance. > "The basic activity, the basic insight, the basic energy that goes into >art has more to do with inquisitiveness, curiosity, and exploration and a >kind of gaiety and glee in composing feelings and doing whatever you want to >do. One thing a poet can do is say anything he wants to say . . . on >paper--not in public, but on paper and to his friends. Art does have to do >with acceptance by your friends; your friends digging what you're doing and >you digging what your friends are doing. But that is the extent of the >sociability of art. Everything else is an accident. Any other acceptance >beyond that is gratuitous, accidental, helpful, charming, useful, might make >you a living, might give you more time, but irrelevant to the original >visionary glee, or visionary energy, which comes from a vision of nature or a >truth of of your own heart which is beyond social acceptance or rejection. > "If financial rejection dampens or snuffs out that visionary energy then >it's not real art." > >Check it out. I hope that you find it as inspiring as I did. I wish I could >send you the whole thing. Let's continue to keep connected and support one >another in The Work. I love you all and would love to hear from you. ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:44:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: "And I depart unhurt." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed That would be "Eclogue" in _Some Trees_. K. >From: Aaron Belz >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: "And I depart unhurt." >Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:18:01 -0500 > >What Ashbery poem ends with this line: > >"And I depart unhurt." > > >-Aaron ......................................... || K. Silem Mohammad || Literature Department || University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 13:04:43 -0700 Reply-To: orion@pullman.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laurie Schneider/Crag Hill Subject: The Age of Audio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Libby: I attended hundreds of readings in the Bay Area in the 1980s and 90s. A man named Kush was present at many of those, dutifully audiotaping them (then later, videotaping). His collection may be limited by his tastes -- I think more Beat and neo-Beat -- but it still has to be worth checking out. Best, Crag Hill > > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:53:50 -0700 > From: charles alexander > Subject: Re: the age of audio > > There's quite a collection of audio tapes at the Poetry Center of the > University of Arizona, which go back to that Center's origin in about 1960. > I believe there is a project either going on, or to start soon, that will > convert those tapes to digital media. The Center is "between" directors at > the moment, so I'm not certain how that analog to digital conversion > project is going. I don't believe the job listing seeking a new director > has been posted. When it is, I'll try and forward that to the list. For > info, call the center in Tucson at 520-626-1185 and speak with Frances Shoberg. > > Charles > > At 09:28 AM 6/21/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >> Beyond the Poetry Project, Naropa, and The Poetry Archives at SFSU, what >> would you say are the most important audio poetry archives? >> >> Thanks! >> Libbie > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 17:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hal Hartley put out a great movie a coupla years back about the > lives of two > fictional poets that probably doesn't exactly fit your needs but is > definitely worth watching for your own pleasure. Think the title is Simon > Fool. > *Henry Fool*. An absolutely hilarious story, great literary high n low statements, and one of the best travesties about two different author/poet stereotypes. Best, Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 19:10:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE - Susan Graham ... Susan Graham. completed text to print, scroll down scroll up Susan ... Select a Page -. Susan Graham's South America Adventure. ... Susan Graham Susan Graham. Susan has an incredible ... Scroll up Susan Scroll down Susan , Susan looks down the street, Susan seeing she is looking down the street, there is dust on the street a red car is moving fast, it is hot sun, not yet nova , it wheels in West Texas, those kids here to make trouble, they pull up, =09they say, scroll up Susan, scroll down Susan, , Susan is at an =09open window, her blinds, what is she wearing =09 two birds leave the roof of the false-front bank, Morgan's Bank, =09 they wheel overhead, =09 ... Graham Video Chat Growing up in Texas, opera sensation =09 Susan Graham never dreamed =09 that one day she'd be singing about croissants and caf=E9 =09 au lait. But that's ... =09 ... SUSAN GRAHAM From her days growing up in Texas and New =09 Mexico, mezzo-soprano Susan =09 Graham dreamed of singing at the Santa Fe Opera. She has =09 done just that and ... =09 ... Raised in Roswell, New Mexico, and Midland, Texas, Susan =09 Graham studied at the =09 Manhattan School of Music and Texas Tech University... a =09 remarkable debut recital album for the stunning =09 mezzo-soprano Susan Graham. This =09 Texas-born and bred opera star's elegance and warm =09 personality have already ... Advanced Search Preferences =09 Search Tips =09=09 Search within results =09=09 she is in Midland where I placed her by that stoplight =09=09 swinging just above the road, oil rigs go by fast & raise =09=09 hell with the birds, how was I supposed to know the real =09=09 Susan Graham exists from Midland where she sang to become =09=09 what I will call "The Songbird of the Prairie" or "The =09=09 Prairie Songbird" for I did not hear her sing but now =09=09 everything crashes, big-time record producers at her door =09=09 the sun not yet nova =09=09 Susan Graham is none of them that know me =09=09 Susan Graham is none of them that know me =09=09 , Susan =09=09 , Susan Graham =09=09 _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 03:50:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T Pelton Subject: Re: Announcing the publication of La Petite Zine #7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Announcing the publication > of La Petite Zine #7 > http://webdelsol.com/lpz > > Famous People Haiku Project > Featuring | The Amazing Randi | Mojo Nixon | Matt Malloy | Bill Leverty | > John Wesley Harding | Survivor II Roommate > > Poetry by | CA Conrad | Carrie Etter | Caitlin Grace McDonnell | Scott > Edward Anderson | Tom Hartman | Coleman Hough | Catherine Daly | David > Harris Ebenbach | Charles Hosier | Mike Kemp > > Poem-script by | Susanna Speier > > Novel excerpt by | Theodore Pelton > > Articles by | Henry Singer | Richard Eoin Nash and Doug Fitch > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:34:05 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "][mez][" Subject: Re: poets in film In-Reply-To: <200106211305336.SM00796@m2w036> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" on the Moulin Rouge front, i thought it was a terrible film....indicative of a post millenium frenzy gone wrong, a director using a clutch of scabrous pop-cultural references in a showy, attributive, repeditive way...the illusion wasn't even palatable, let alone the "plot"... baz should have stopped at R&J. ][mez][ At 01:05 PM 21/06/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hi everyone! For "poets in film" you should see the Australian film "Moulin Rouge," I've seen it twice, it is great, the character Ewan McGregor plays is a poet in Paris in 1899. It's the kind of film some of you will hate, some will love, but people in the audience were clapping and cheering after the different musical numbers and at the end everyone stood up and applauded, how often do you see that in the cinema? > >And one extra plus, "Moulin Rouge" has a cameo appearance by Australia's greatest pop star Kylie Minogue, she plays the green fairy on the absinthe poster who comes to life and sings and dances and flirts with Ewan once he is drunk with the powerful absinthe!! Worth seeing just for Kylie!!! > >-- Kevin Killian > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at >http://www.mail2web.com/ . > > . . .... ..... net.wurker][mez][ n.sert x.coins.x .here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:40:17 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Dunning langpo In-Reply-To: <121.7c6b12.285ffba1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with you completely, Bill. But does beauty equal pleasure, or does it merely lead to pleasure? I would strongly suggest the latter, and I would also add that beauty does not always lead to pleasure. Sorrow in itself is painful, but perhaps something beautiful can be seen in the sorrow, and so it may lead to pleasure, but it is not bound to do so. As for your last question "Is there pleasure in beauty, or rather in the seemingly felt perception of it?" I wish to maintain some ambiguity...my answer is "maybe." Thanks, Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Austinwja@AOL.COM > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 8:50 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Dunning langpo > > > In a message dated 06/18/2001 5:53:34 PM, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG writes: > > << I frankly do not see how sorrow could be > > pleasurable. That just makes no sense. >> > > Agree or disagree, but it has been said that one of Bob Dylan's greatest > revelations was that sorrow can be beautiful. Is there pleasure > in beauty, > or rather in the seemingly felt perception of it? Best, Bill > > William James Austin.com > Koja Press.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 23:07:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Amy McDonald Subject: Re: Laureates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there were 30 others before Warren--someone mentioned the list at http://poetry.about.com/arts/poetry/library/weekly/bllaureates.htm Amy Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > I'm waiting for the first gay poet laureate. Or did I miss someone??? > > Susan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - i did not know susan graham i had never heard of susan graham susan graham, you are unknown to me; I have created your name, I have made it all up out of whole cloth, you did not have to do this to me, i knew nothing of opera, of your career, , susan graham , susan graham i did mean you no harm, i would not have written to you or found you, i know nothing of opera, in fact i don't even like it, i've had no reason to know - what are you, soprano, coloratura, sopranino, i don't know what would fit you well or likely, it was something fabricated, i know the coincidences seem all too real, but only to you, there are too many of you she lives on down that road, i can picture it now with the swinging traffic light in the hot dry nighttime wind, i can see it, i know it, it's right before me, i understand it all too well i didn't mean you no harm, , susan graham, i thought it was all a joke, i thought there wasn't any other susan graham, there was just the one i made up out of whole cloth honest, it was for a lot of writing i was doing, i was thinking, , susan graham you would be nice to see watching things out of that window across from that hot dusty dry road at night when you could see the cars at the end of the street and sometimes hear the guns go off , susan graham it was like that , susan graham _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:51:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 21 Jun 2001 to 22 Jun 2001 (#2001-91) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Well, in that case, the omission of Dove's name from the article isn't so sinister, but that list of poet laureates in the last 15 years certainly is. best, Marcella > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:29:46 -0400 > From: Fred Muratori > Subject: Re: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration > > Dove came before Pinsky -- before Robert Hass, in fact -- and held the > position from 1993 - 1995. There's a complete list of laureates at > http://poetry.about.com/arts/poetry/library/weekly/aa101497.htm?terms=laur > ea > te I strongly doubt that the omission of Dove's name from the article > suggests anything sinister. > > -- Fred M. > > Here is the list of U.S. Poet Laureates. > > 1986-1987 Robert Penn Warren > 1987-1988 Richard Wilbur > 1988-1990 Howard Nemerov > 1990-1991 Mark Strand > 1991-1992 Joseph Brodsky > 1992-1993 Mona Van Duyn > 1993-1995 Rita Dove > 1995-1997 Robert Hass > 1997-2000 Robert Pinsky > 2000-2001 Stanley Kunitz > 2001- Billy Collins > > Have a great weekend. > Jim > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 21:52:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration In-Reply-To: <71EAF6EBA863D2119C4F0008C74CA78E021B98D6@PSI-MS1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" no, she was before haas, who was before pinsky, who begat stanley At 9:03 AM -0500 6/22/01, Marcella Durand wrote: > I may be wrong about this, but wasn't Rita Dove the Poet Laureate in >between Kunitz and Pinsky? > > Talk about erasure! > > Marcella >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:23:43 -0400 >> From: Ron Silliman >> Subject: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration >> >> Well, he is the perfect reflection of a certain world view. >> >> Ron >> >> ----------------- >> >> Wednesday June 20 8:48 PM ET >> >> Collins Named U.S. Poet Laureate >> >> By CARL HARTMAN, Associated Press Writer >> >> WASHINGTON (AP) - Billy Collins, a popular poet who makes money at the >> job, >> was named Wednesday as the 11th U.S. poet laureate. >> >> Collins can collect $2,000 for a single reading of his poetry and Random >> House has reportedly offered him a publishing contract of at least >> $100,000 >> for three books. >> >> He also is a distinguished professor of English at Lehman College in >> Somers, >> N.Y. >> >> His one-year post as laureate will net him a $35,000 salary, a Washington >> office at the Library of Congress (news - web sites) and few duties except >> to give more readings. >> >> Collins, born in 1941, succeeds 95-year-old Stanley Kunitz and Robert >> Pinsky, whose project to collect Americans' favorite poems drew the >> participation of President Clinton (news - web sites) and first lady >> Hillary >> Rodham Clinton (news - web sites). >> >> There's no problem interpreting Collins' poetry. He has written a sonnet >> in >> the conventional 14 lines but with little regard for such matters as rhyme >> or meter. Four of the lines read: >> >> ``How easily it goes unless you get Elizabethan >> >> and insist the iambic bongos must be played >> >> and rhymes positioned at the end of lines >> >> one for every station of the cross.'' >> >> He wrote one poem about a neighbor's barking dog who annoyed him so much >> that he started playing a Beethoven record to drown out the noise. >> >> ``... but I can still hear him muffled under the music >> >> barking, barking, barking >> >> ... and now I see him sitting in the orchestra >> >> his head raised confidently >> >> as if Beethoven had included a part for barking dog.'' >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 10:07:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dimitri Anastasopoulos Subject: Re: Censorship at the National Press Club MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nothing new. Last year Dan Rather muzzled reporters from Pacifica on the Kosovo War. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Brennan" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 1:40 PM Subject: Censorship at the National Press Club > Subj: [corp-focus] Censorship at the National Press Club > Date: 06/22/2001 11:34:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time > From: rob@milan.essential.org (Robert Weissman) > Sender: corp-focus-admin@lists.essential.org > To: corp-focus@venice.essential.org > > Censorship at the National Press Club > By Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman > > Henry Kissinger came to the National Press Club here in Washington, D.C. > last night to give a talk, sell his latest book, Does America Need a > Foreign Policy? and take questions from an audience of about 300 people. > > We weren't as interested in the talk or the book as much as the question > period. We figured, correctly as it turned out, that Henry hadn't change > over the years -- his unspoken theory of foreign policy was still the > same: the corporate state -- including his client corporations -- should > dictate the country's foreign policy. As usual, his words barely masked > that reality. > > But scattered throughout the ballroom at the Press Club were little white > note cards for questions, and it appeared that perhaps 100 questions were > scribbled and sent up to the moderator, Richard Koonce, a member of the > Press Club's book and author committee. > > It was Koonce's job to sift through the questions, pick out some > interesting ones, and ask Henry some probing questions. This system seemed > to work well at luncheon talks, where the past three presidents of the > Press Club -- Doug Harbrecht of Business Week, John Cushman of the New > York Times and Dick Ryan of the Detroit News -- would ask speakers some > pretty tough and newsworthy questions. We never got the sense that Press > Club moderators were pulling punches. > > Last night, things changed. > > Earlier this year, Harper's magazine published a two-part series of > articles by British journalist Christopher Hitchens, "The Case Against > Henry Kissinger that has since been published as a book, The Trial of > Henry Kissinger (Verso). > > Hitchens has drawn up an indictment, charged Kissinger with war crimes, > and is begging some government to go after the former Secretary of State > under Richard Nixon for the killings of innocents in Laos, Cambodia, South > America, East Timor and elsewhere. > > Magistrates in three countries -- Chile, Argentina, and France -- have > responded and summoned Kissinger to answer questions. > > Le Monde reported earlier this month that when French Judge Roger Le Loire > had a summons served on Kissinger on May 31 at the Ritz Hotel in Paris, > Kissinger promptly left the hotel, and then left town. The judge wanted to > ask Kissinger about his knowledge of Operation Condor, an effort by the > dictators of South America to kill or "disappear" dissidents. > > The fact that Kissinger was being sought for questioning didn't make the > mainstream media here in the United States, until yesterday's New York > Times reported that the Chilean judge wanted Kissinger to "testify about > the disappearance of an American in Chile when the dictator Augusto > Pinochet seized power in the 1970s." > > Kissinger began lashing back at Hitchens last week, not by answering the > substance of Hitchen's argument, but by smearing the journalist. > > Kissinger told Detroit radio talk show host Mitch Albom that Hitchens had > "denied the Holocaust ever took place." > > In response, Hitchens, who says both and he his wife are Jewish, told the > New York Post: "Mr. Kissinger will be hearing from my attorney, who will > tell him two things he already knows -- what he said is false, malicious > and defamatory, and if he says it again, we will proceed against him in > court." > > So, you can imagine that the Press Club audience had questions. And so did > we. > > We wrote down six questions -- about the report in the Times, Kissinger's > interview with Albom, the incident at the Ritz Hotel in Paris, Hitchen's > articles in Harper's, about the three magistrates and simply this one: "If > you are indicted for war crimes, will you defend yourself in court?" > > We met a friend there who told us that in the 1970s, when Kissinger was > asked about the bombing of Laos and Cambodia, he responded this way: > "sometimes we have to operate outside the law." > > Her question to Kissinger: "How do you square that with our Constitutional > values?" > > Koonce had other ideas. He lofted six or seven puff balls about Kissinger > in China, about Kissinger on Nixon, about his generic views of foreign > policy. Nothing about war crimes, nothing about operating outside the law, > nothing about Hitchens. > > After the event, we sought out Koonce. > > "Was there an agreement with Dr. Kissinger not to ask questions related to > Christopher Hitchens and allegations of war crimes?" > > To our surprise, Koonce did not deny it. > > "There was a definite sensitivity to that," Koonce said. "He [Kissinger] > was afraid that if we got into a discussion of that, for the vast majority > of people that, it would take so much time to explain all of the context, > that you know, he preferred to avoid that, and so . . ." > > And so Kissinger's wishes were accommodated and the questions were > avoided. > > We asked Koonce how many written questions dealt with Hitchens or war > crimes? Two or three, Koonce said. > > We knew this not to be true. We handed up six ourselves. And we suspect > that there were many more. (Only Kissinger knows for sure, since it's > Press Club policy to deliver the written questions to the guest after the > event.) > > According to Press Club standards, these book events must be held in > accordance with the Club's "Code of Ethics." > > So, we want to know -- how can it be ethical to agree secretly with an > author before hand not to ask a certain set of questions? > > We're tracking down the Code of Ethics. Stay tuned. > > > Russell Mokhiber is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Corporate Crime > Reporter. Robert Weissman is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based > Multinational Monitor. They are co-authors of Corporate Predators: The > Hunt for MegaProfits and the Attack on Democracy (Monroe, Maine: Common > Courage Press, 1999). > > (c) Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman > > > _______________________________________________ > > Focus on the Corporation is a weekly column written by Russell Mokhiber > and Robert Weissman. Please feel free to forward the column to friends or > repost the column on other lists. If you would like to post the column on > a web site or publish it in print format, we ask that you first contact us > (russell@essential.org or rob@essential.org). > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 01:32:48 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: billy little Subject: audio archives Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 paul blackburn always brought his tape recorder to readings all over the city, where are those tapes. Allen DeLoach had a large archive is that in Buffalo? Allen Ginsberg used his taperecorder like Blackburn and would send tape letters including his new poems to Creeley, Olson, Creeley would occasionally play these tape letters for us. In Canada, Capilano College has important Duncan Lectures(mothers day, etc.)I've been meaning to mention this to Lisa Jarnot if you see her. Special Collections at Simon Fraser University has a great collection too including Zukofsky. Bob Rose from Tufts and Buffalo I believe sold his tapes to SFU. San Francisco state has an awesome video collection. maybe UC at Davis as well? good luck wystan. billy little -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mymail.altavista.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 16:48:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: subrosa@SPEAKEASY.NET Subject: concrete/visual stuff Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-version: 1.0 newer item(s) by Nico Vassilakis at www.telusplanet.net/public/housepre ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 19:22:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Notes The irrepressable Hoa Nguyen (hoa@union.utexas.edu) reports yet another incarnation of Skanky Possum, always worth reading. Available for a finite period of time (afterwhich, it disappears!) from http://www.skankypossum.com. ###################################################################### THE NEW ORLEANS SCHOOL FOR THE IMAGINATION presents TWO Shows -- **** 7PM SUNDAY JUNE 24 **** "THE POET AS SHAMAN" featuring poets INDRAN AMIRTHANAYAGAM CLAUDIA COPELAND NANCY HARRIS ANDY YOUNG at The Dragon's Den 435 Esplanade 949-1750 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 22:46:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lungfull@RCN.COM Subject: THE MERMAID AFTERPARTY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Oh, Brendan Lorber & Tracey McTague think you ought to know about their party Saturday 30 June dusk until dawn at The Mothership 316 23rd Street Brooklyn between 6th & 7th avenues The Mothership is an old farmhouse across from the Green Wood Cemetery with a garden, a pond, 2 floors & an attic June 30 is the day of the Coney Island Mermaid Parade so there will be many people in costume at the party. Your hosts encourage this sort of behavior. You may be among the festooned or you may simply be among those with an appreciation for green skinned mythic creatures. You may also wish to bring a drink. Your hosts will provide an array of dishes & a delightful environment in which to indulge your many senses. Directions: 316 23rd Street has a Green Light in front N/R to 25th Street walk down 4th avenue to 23rd st & then turn right up the hill to 316 23rd between 6th & 7th F to 15th Street/Prospect Park Take the windsor place exit Walk down windsor place to 7th ave then left to 23rd street then right on 23rd down the hill to 316 www.mapquest.com can get you there if need be for information & encouragement call 718.832.6681 or 212.533.9317 THE MERMAID AFTERPARTY Oh, Brendan Lorber & Tracey McTague think you ought to know about this party Saturday 30 June dusk until dawn at The Mothership 316 23rd Street Brooklyn between 6th & 7th avenues The Mothership is an old farmhouse across from the Green Wood Cemetery with a garden & a pond & 2 floors & an attic June 30 is the day of the Coney Island Mermaid Parade so there will be many people in costume at the party. Your hosts encourage this sort of behavior. You may be among the festooned or you may simply be among those with an appreciation for green skinned mythic creatures. You may also wish to bring a drink. Your hosts will provide an array of dishes & a delightful environment in which to indulge your many senses. N/R to 25th Street walk down 4th avenue to 23rd st & then turn right up the hill to 316 23rd between 6th& 7th F to 15th Street/Windsor Terrace Take the windsor terrace exit Walk down windsor terrace to 7th ave then right down the hill to 316 www.mapquest.com can get you there if need be for directions & encouragement call 718.832.6681 or 212.533.9317 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 03:46:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: chris stroffolino Subject: Re: absurd poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit karoom dibble Maria Damon wrote: > At 10:32 AM -0600 6/21/01, Bruce Holsapple wrote: > >Philip Whalen > > joanne kyger ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:20:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Bassford Subject: The House of Pernod at Bar 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PYROTECHNICS FOR THE HEAD! The House of Pernod brings its mix of funk,poetry,chaos,jazz,theater,and rock and roll to NYC's Bar 13 on Monday, July 2nd at 9 p.m. The House features poet RICK PERNOD, vocals; ANDY BASSFORD, guitar; JEFF GANZ, drums; LLEROY GUY, bass. Pernod's poems have been called "...linguistic pinball machines..." and the band, "...a unique and intoxicating energy...". IT'S DISTURBING, BUT YOU CAN DANCE TO IT...Bar 13 is located upstairs at 13th St. between Bway and University Pl. Admission is $5; Open Mike begins at 7:30. For more info, respond here or call (917)859-7513 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:49:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Fouhy Subject: Student Writers Night Comments: To: Dick Attanasio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tonight! Monday June 25th at 7:00. HS Alumni Writers Night Featuring College Students:: Poet Matt Furey Composer/Writer/singer/pianist Matt Kellogg Poet Jamie Manning Poet Lauren Peterson OPEN MIKE FOLLOWS Where: Northern Westchester Center for the Arts 272 N. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY 914 241 6922 ext 17 Call for easy Directions from NYC and other locations. This series is supported by grants from the New York State Council on the Arts and the Bydale Foundation Also......another Student Writers Night at the Flying Pig Cafe Farm Market Wed. June 27th at 7:00 Call for more information 914 241 6922 ext 17 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:42:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: poets in film Comments: To: kevinkillian@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <200106211305336.SM00796@m2w036> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hiya kev et al --i thot the movie quite over-the-top idiotically good fun, especially the scene in which kidman is clutching herself orgasmically crying out "poetry! poetry! yes!" i think i need that clip to show my students. in fact, i think it was all downhill from there. that was a classic. At 1:05 PM -0400 6/21/01, kevinkillian@earthlink.net wrote: >Hi everyone! For "poets in film" you should see the Australian film >"Moulin Rouge," I've seen it twice, it is great, the character Ewan >McGregor plays is a poet in Paris in 1899. It's the kind of film some of >you will hate, some will love, but people in the audience were clapping >and cheering after the different musical numbers and at the end everyone >stood up and applauded, how often do you see that in the cinema? > >And one extra plus, "Moulin Rouge" has a cameo appearance by Australia's >greatest pop star Kylie Minogue, she plays the green fairy on the absinthe >poster who comes to life and sings and dances and flirts with Ewan once he >is drunk with the powerful absinthe!! Worth seeing just for Kylie!!! > >-- Kevin Killian > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at >http://www.mail2web.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:15:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daisy Fried Subject: Daisy Fried and Vincent Passaro at Rutgers-Camden Comments: To: nanders1@swarthmore.edu, brady@sealworks.com, sadorno@philamuseum.org, sam@citypaper.net, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, whpoets@english.upenn.edu, MacPoet1@aol.com, joss_magazine@hotmail.com, GasHeart@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, klandis1@swarthmore.edu, Bryant@bee.net, ngreaves@brynmawr.edu Comments: cc: wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org, Ayperry@aol.com, LeonLoo@aol.com, JCBAGGOTT@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hope you can come! Daisy Fried and Vincent Passaro Thursday, June 28 at 7 pm. The Octagon Room Campus Center Rutgers-Camden FREE! Directions & info: http://summer.camden.rutgers.edu The whole 15th Annual Rutgers-Camden Summer Writers' Conference Reading schedule, same time, same place: Mon. June 25, Karen Karbo and Jennifer Weiner Tues. June 26, Justin Cronin and Jason Shinder Wed., June 27, Deborah Garrison and Lisa Zeidner Thurs., June 28, Vincent Passaro and Daisy Fried Fri., June 29, J.T. Barbarese and Mark Winegardner Fri. July 6, Students from the Program. Daisy Fried won the Agnes Lynch Starrett Prize for She Didn't Mean to Do It, her first book of poems. She received the 2001 Leeway Grant for Excellence and was a 1998 Pew Fellow in Poetry. Her poems have appeared in American Poetry Review, Ploughshares, Threepenny Review and many others. She teaches at Haverford College and lives in Philadelphia. Vincent Passaro is a contributing editor to Harper's Magazine; his essays and criticism have been published as well in Esquire, The New York Times Magazine, and many other publications. His first novel, violence/nudity/adult content/adult language, is forthcoming. He lives in New York and teaches at Adelphi University. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:00:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Coletti Subject: Re: absurd poetry In-Reply-To: <3B359AE9.255C41AD@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, Who's karoom dibble? John Coletti -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of chris stroffolino Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 3:47 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: absurd poetry karoom dibble Maria Damon wrote: > At 10:32 AM -0600 6/21/01, Bruce Holsapple wrote: > >Philip Whalen > > joanne kyger ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:05:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Check out Abigail Childs's work. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz http://www.english.upenn.edu/~klou Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press http://www.duckpress.org ---------- >From: pete spence >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films >Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001, 11:44 AM > >i'd be more interested in hearing from poets who make films or have made >films,,the poet as a star gives 'em too much leash given generally they >prefigure a self importance beyond the goodly triflings they make //pete >spence > > >> > Leonardo diCaprio as Rimbaud >> >> >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:18:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: audio archives In-Reply-To: <20010623173252.30525.qmail@altavista.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit billy wrote: > > paul blackburn always brought his tape recorder to readings all > over the city, where are those tapes. They are all at UCSD, catalogued, copied & listenable to there -- I spent many an afternoon doing so, & it's worth every second of it. Pierre ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 POASIS: Selected Poems 1986-1999 Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 go to: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/poasis.htm Email: joris@ albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:40:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration In-Reply-To: <20010623135516.86445.qmail@web10806.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed is this so? or does it have more to do with who you talk with, what circles, etc.? here in tucson, in which the 'official' poetry scene is certainly dominated by a university and its poets, if you in fact dig a little deeper, most poets in town are decidedly not academics or mfa grads. they are also not getting much work published (except for a few), except possibly in very locally circulated journals and chapbooks. they are, however, very actively involved as poets and in creating poetry communities. I think that the notion that all poets are academics generally comes from an academic point of view, and one that privileges certain forms of publishing and circulation far above others. that said, it's still true that more poets I work with at chax press have either some academic connection or at least some very good educational backgrounds, if not mfa ones (some have that, too). But I think one has to discount the majority of poetic activity, even if a whole lot of that activity is somewhat under (or sometimes far under) the radar screen, to think that most poets are academically inclined. charles At 06:55 AM 6/23/2001 -0700, you wrote: >even the third one - i'd say "distinguished"=$$$$ >'course i guess i am just being cynical > >is it *possible* to be a poet w/o being a >professor, MFA grad or the like? seems to be >fewer and fewer these days - welcome to the great >filtering mechanism of our culture - separating >the (career specialist) wheat from the >(unvarnished masses) chaff - not that i am saying >anything that hasn't been said a thousand >times... > >namaste > >michael ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:53:36 -0700 Reply-To: tbrady@msgidirect.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: The Age of Audio In-Reply-To: <3B34F65B.5030305@pullman.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He's still at it, so the collection must be quite large by now. Last I heard he was in the process of registering the archive as a non-profit corporation, which might improve access. Right now, that can be a bit dodgy (and expensive -- I've heard $25 quoted as his price to dub a VHS cassette). B/c me if you need contact info, and I'll try to track him down. Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Laurie Schneider/Crag Hill Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 1:05 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: The Age of Audio Libby: I attended hundreds of readings in the Bay Area in the 1980s and 90s. A man named Kush was present at many of those, dutifully audiotaping them (then later, videotaping). His collection may be limited by his tastes -- I think more Beat and neo-Beat -- but it still has to be worth checking out. Best, Crag Hill > > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:53:50 -0700 > From: charles alexander > Subject: Re: the age of audio > > There's quite a collection of audio tapes at the Poetry Center of the > University of Arizona, which go back to that Center's origin in about 1960. > I believe there is a project either going on, or to start soon, that will > convert those tapes to digital media. The Center is "between" directors at > the moment, so I'm not certain how that analog to digital conversion > project is going. I don't believe the job listing seeking a new director > has been posted. When it is, I'll try and forward that to the list. For > info, call the center in Tucson at 520-626-1185 and speak with Frances Shoberg. > > Charles > > At 09:28 AM 6/21/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >> Beyond the Poetry Project, Naropa, and The Poetry Archives at SFSU, what >> would you say are the most important audio poetry archives? >> >> Thanks! >> Libbie > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:27:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Potter Subject: Re: poets in film In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010625083405.00b74530@pop.hotkey.net.au> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yeah, I felt the same way. Heard a couple of people rave about it before seeing it, too. What a let down. A nice looking movie but dumb dumb dumb. Kept wishing he'd chosen to collaborate with Willy Shakes again and that Anne Margret was 40 yrs younger to play the lead. on 6/24/01 3:34 PM, ][mez][ at netwurker@HOTKEY.NET.AU wrote: > on the Moulin Rouge front, i thought it was a terrible film....indicative > of a post millenium frenzy gone wrong, a director using a clutch of > scabrous pop-cultural references in a showy, attributive, repeditive > way...the illusion wasn't even palatable, let alone the "plot"... > > baz should have stopped at R&J. > > ][mez][ > > > At 01:05 PM 21/06/01 -0400, you wrote: >> Hi everyone! For "poets in film" you should see the Australian film > "Moulin Rouge," I've seen it twice, it is great, the character Ewan > McGregor plays is a poet in Paris in 1899. It's the kind of film some of > you will hate, some will love, but people in the audience were clapping and > cheering after the different musical numbers and at the end everyone stood > up and applauded, how often do you see that in the cinema? >> >> And one extra plus, "Moulin Rouge" has a cameo appearance by Australia's > greatest pop star Kylie Minogue, she plays the green fairy on the absinthe > poster who comes to life and sings and dances and flirts with Ewan once he > is drunk with the powerful absinthe!! Worth seeing just for Kylie!!! >> >> -- Kevin Killian >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at >> http://www.mail2web.com/ . >> >> > > .. . .... ..... > net.wurker][mez][ > n.sert x.coins.x .here. xXXx > ./. > www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker > ..... . .??? ....... > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:11:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Writers have rights over digital copies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The decision in Tasini (sp?) vs. the NY Times came down this morning. Because of who lost, it might not get the coverage it deserves, but it is hugely important for writers everywhere. Ron Silliman --------------------- High court rules for freelancers' rights By Reuters June 25, 2001, 8:00 a.m. PT WASHINGTON--The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Monday that publishers violated freelance contributors' copyrights by putting their articles in electronic databases, extending the reach of copyright protections in an online age. The Supreme Court, by a 7-2 vote, upheld a ruling that the publishers must pay freelance writers, photographers and artists extra for work included in online and CD-ROM databases or must remove the material. The decision was a defeat for The New York Times Co; The Tribune Co.'s Newsday; AOL Time Warner's Time Inc.; Lexis-Nexis, a unit of Anglo-Dutch publishing group Reed Elsevier; and Bell & Howell's University Microfilms International. The law does not authorize the copying at issue here, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg declared for the court majority. Story Copyright © 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:12:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: NWU on Tasini v. NY Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Monday June 25, 2:57 pm Eastern Time Press Release SOURCE: International Union, UAW; National Writers Union National Writers Union and UAW Hail Supreme Court Ruling As Victory for Creators and Consumers DETROIT, June 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Leaders of the National Writers Union and the International Union, UAW described today's Supreme Court ruling -- which upholds copyright protections for free-lance writers -- as a victory for creators and consumers. Union leaders also offered to begin negotiations immediately with the publishing industry to develop a comprehensive and fair system for compensating free-lance writers for electronic reuses of their work. ``The Court has upheld the spirit of the Constitutional protection for copyright, which was written for the benefit of individual authors,'' said Jonathan Tasini, president of the National Writers Union (UAW Local 1981) and the lead plaintiff in Tasini vs. New York Times. ``Now, it's time for the media industry to negotiate to pay creators their fair share.'' The Court upheld a September 1999 unanimous ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit, which found that The New York Times and publishers had committed copyright infringement when they resold free-lance newspaper and magazine articles, via electronic databases such as LexisNexis, without asking permission or making additional payments to the original authors. ``We're proud to have supported our members in the National Writers Union in their fight to be treated fairly by the publishing industry,'' said UAW President Stephen P. Yokich. ``Today's decision paves the way for writers and other creators to be fairly compensated for their work. That's good news for all of us, because we all benefit when the legal protections of copyright encourage the creation of new art, science, and literature.'' The International Union, UAW, has provided legal and financial support for the groundbreaking litigation, which was filed by nine free-lance members of UAW Local 1981, the National Writers Union, in 1993. ``Our message to the publishing industry now is: let's negotiate,'' said UAW Vice President Elizabeth Bunn, who directs the union's Technical, Office and Professional Department. ``The way to deal with these obligations is to meet at the bargaining table so we can find solutions that are fair to writers, to the industry, and for consumers.'' ``The NWU,'' Tasini said, ``is already party to a class action lawsuit, which will enforce the copyright protections affirmed today by the Supreme Court.'' ``We want to settle past claims in a reasonable fashion, and establish a mechanism so that free-lancers can be compensated fairly from now on,'' said Tasini. The Publication Rights Clearinghouse (PRC), said Tasini, established by the NWU in 1993, offers a way for writers and publishers to track the ownership of copyright, and payment for authorized re-sale of copyrighted works. Free-lance writers, whether or not they are NWU members, can use the PRC to license their works by visiting www.nwu.org . Further details regarding the Tasini vs. New York Times litigation can be found at: www.nwu.org/tvt/vichome.htm . The National Writers Union has 7,000 members nationwide, including journalists, book authors, technical writers and poets. It is the only union dedicated solely to advancing the interests of free-lance writers. The International Union, UAW has more than 1.3 million active and retired members, including more than 100,000 members in its Technical, Office and Professional Department. In addition to free-lance writers, the UAW also represents attorneys, clerical workers, educators, firefighters, graphic designers, health care workers, graduate student employees, librarians, museum workers, public employees, and many others. SOURCE: International Union, UAW; National Writers Union ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:38:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: The Tasini decision itself MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-201.ZS.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:13:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: First Laureate of the Bush (II) Administration Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed wrote: >is it *possible* to be a poet w/o being a >professor, MFA grad or the like? The answer to that (unless you're using poet as code for class circumstance, which actually might be what things have come to) is-- yes. Yes, in that you can DO the work & even publish it in academic channels without being asked to present your credentials. But speaking as one MFA grad who doesn't work in the 'profession,' writes & publishes a lot of poetry & socializes mostly with professors who are poets, & some poets who aren't professors, the gap between inside & outside is sometimes very strange indeed. Mark DuCharme _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:27:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a classic book by P.Adams Sitney called _Visionary Film_ which is about the poetic wing of avant -garde cinema. You'd probably find it useful. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:50:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: poets in film In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Slightly off topic... Re: Moulin Rouge -- I was sad that after the opening scene, there were very few shots of interestingly-patterend stockings with clashing petticoats and Weimar Republic-style creepiness. I wanted more "Voulez Vous Couchez" sort of stuff. It got pretty sappy pretty damn quick -- just another drowning-in-its-own romantacism Titanic. I did like the Absinthe fairy, though. And the "Like a Virgin" scene. Although how many times can one turn-of-the-last-century film reference Madonna? I would like to hear from our Australian/NZ counterparts on this burning issue. I am fascinated by the over-the-top camp aesthetic I seem to see in all the Australian art house films which get shown over here -- I am thinking of Muriel's Wedding, Priscilla, even Holy Smoke. What's up? --- Maria Damon wrote: > hiya kev et al --i thot the movie quite over-the-top > idiotically good fun, > especially the scene in which kidman is clutching > herself orgasmically > crying out "poetry! poetry! yes!" i think i need > that clip to show my > students. in fact, i think it was all downhill from > there. that was a > classic. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:22:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Subject: Re: Laureates In-Reply-To: <3B340802.6269548E@shookfoil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Amy McDonald wrote: > there were 30 others before Warren--someone mentioned the list at > http://poetry.about.com/arts/poetry/library/weekly/bllaureates.htm Before Warren's 1987 term, though, they weren't "laureates" but merely "Poetry Consultant to the Library of Congress." The LoC published a longish history of the pre-laureate consultants in a book called _Poetry's Catbird Seat_ around the time Warren was appointed. I think the transition from Consultant to Laureate has resulted in more conservative poets occupying the position, although the prelaureate consultants were conservative enough. It would be hard to imagine a current laureate akin to Lowell, who began as poetry consultant just a few years after serving time as a World War II C.O. Cheers, David > Amy > > Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > > > I'm waiting for the first gay poet laureate. Or did I miss someone??? > > > > Susan > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Kellogg Assistant Director kellogg@acpub.duke.edu University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 Duke University FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:49:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura oliver Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jimmy Santiago Baca wrote the screenplay to Bound By Honor. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:17:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: poets in film Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Henry Hills has made a number of films with poets. His web site is well worth checking out: http://www.henryhills.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:57:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Libbie Rifkin Subject: Re: Laureates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Given the fact that the Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry (official title) is appointed by the Librarian of Congress, how are we linking the Collins appointment to the Bush II Administration per se? Just rhetorical/coincidental? -----Original Message----- From: David Kellogg [mailto:kellogg@DUKE.EDU] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 2:22 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Laureates On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Amy McDonald wrote: > there were 30 others before Warren--someone mentioned the list at > http://poetry.about.com/arts/poetry/library/weekly/bllaureates.htm Before Warren's 1987 term, though, they weren't "laureates" but merely "Poetry Consultant to the Library of Congress." The LoC published a longish history of the pre-laureate consultants in a book called _Poetry's Catbird Seat_ around the time Warren was appointed. I think the transition from Consultant to Laureate has resulted in more conservative poets occupying the position, although the prelaureate consultants were conservative enough. It would be hard to imagine a current laureate akin to Lowell, who began as poetry consultant just a few years after serving time as a World War II C.O. Cheers, David > Amy > > Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > > > I'm waiting for the first gay poet laureate. Or did I miss someone??? > > > > Susan > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Kellogg Assistant Director kellogg@acpub.duke.edu University Writing Program (919) 660-4357 Duke University FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:40:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: poets in film In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010625083405.00b74530@pop.hotkey.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Has anyone mentioned "Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr Leonard Cohen" made when he was young and "I am a Hotel" made when he was a bit older? -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:51:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: john beer Subject: Re: Laureates In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii More conservative than Anthony Hecht? Reed Whittemore (2 terms!)? Allen Tate?? Best, John --- David Kellogg wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Amy McDonald wrote: > > > there were 30 others before Warren--someone > mentioned the list at > > > http://poetry.about.com/arts/poetry/library/weekly/bllaureates.htm > > Before Warren's 1987 term, though, they weren't > "laureates" but merely > "Poetry Consultant to the Library of Congress." The > LoC published a longish > history of the pre-laureate consultants in a book > called _Poetry's > Catbird Seat_ around the time Warren was appointed. > > I think the transition from Consultant to Laureate > has resulted in more > conservative poets occupying the position, although > the prelaureate > consultants were conservative enough. It would be > hard to imagine a > current laureate akin to Lowell, who began as poetry > consultant just a few > years after serving time as a World War II C.O. > > Cheers, > David > > > Amy > > > > Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > > > > > I'm waiting for the first gay poet laureate. Or > did I miss someone??? > > > > > > Susan > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > David Kellogg Assistant Director > kellogg@acpub.duke.edu University Writing > Program > (919) 660-4357 Duke University > FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:43:53 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "][mez][" Subject: Re: poets in film In-Reply-To: <20010625185040.4539.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:50 AM 25/06/01 -0700, you wrote: >Slightly off topic... > >Re: Moulin Rouge -- I was sad that after the opening >scene, there were very few shots of >interestingly-patterend stockings with clashing >petticoats and Weimar Republic-style creepiness. I >wanted more "Voulez Vous Couchez" sort of stuff. It >got pretty sappy pretty damn quick -- just another >drowning-in-its-own romantacism Titanic. I did like >the Absinthe fairy, though. And the "Like a Virgin" >scene. Although how many times can one >turn-of-the-last-century film reference Madonna? ...couldn't agree with u more here Maria, and yr use of Titanic as a prime example of vapid filmic saccharinity is spot on..... >I would like to hear from our Australian/NZ >counterparts on this burning issue. i'm one;) >I am fascinated >by the over-the-top camp aesthetic I seem to see in >all the Australian art house films which get shown >over here -- I am thinking of Muriel's Wedding, >Priscilla, even Holy Smoke. What's up? ...could be a possible antidotal approach 2 the almost mandatory grounding of the ozzie post-convict-primary-industrial-anecdotally-dependant-survivor-and-[anti]her oically-challenged-mythology that most of the well-known [read:financially successful] oz films of the early-mid 20th C portray...at the same time pandering to the quirky "downunder" strand of individualistic character formation.....mix these and u get a oz art-house industry desperate to illustrate the charm of [cultural and geographical] isolation and the "sidekick" drawing card.... just my 2 cents worth. ][mez][ . . .... ..... net.wurker][mez][ n.sert x.coins.x .here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:41:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 22 Jun 2001 to 25 Jun 2001 (#2001-92) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> UCSD, w/ copies of the early Poetry Project readings at St Marks. Bob Holman * 173 Duane Street #2 * New York, NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 * F: 212-334-6415 * holman@Bard.edu * poetry.about.com* www.worldofpoetry.org * www.peoplespoetry.org www.bobholman.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 01:07:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - , susan so i went outside this morning there was this bright sun and shadow and i lay down beside the concrete wall 14 stories up and he turned his camera he turned his camera on me and i hiked up my dress you could see my black panties they were wet they were wet you could see everything and i began * Su_Graham said hello i have no reason to be here * Su_Graham said hello i'm on my way somewhere else * Su_Graham said i left florida because of a guy who left me * Su_Graham said it was mutual the best thing for us * Su_Graham said you're getting off on this aren't you and i started to pull my panties down i pulled my panties down slowly he kept angling the camera to shoot up my cunt he zoomed in over and over again on my face it was my cunt he wanted it was my cunt he wanted he kept zooming in [0-0:GScNxAlFMPhR] 10:20PM @Su_Graham (+is) #nikuko (+nt) M:5 Lag 1 - E/X i pulled my dress down you could see my nipples the camera trembled in his hands * Su_Graham said this is what you wanted all along * Su_Graham said you can do anything you want with the film * Su_Graham said take care of me * Su_Graham said you can do anything you want with me i pulled my dress up above my waist and spread my legs you could see he had a hard erection you could see he wanted me * Su_Graham said you want me don't you * Su_Graham said you want more more than anything in the world the camera was trembling more and more in his hands he was about to fall they were about to fall off the balcony they were about to fall nothing like that happened he zoomed in tighter trembling on my cunt focusing on my face focusing hard on my face running the camera over my cunt [0-0:GScNxAlFMPhR] 10:25PM @Su_Graham (+is) #nikuko (+nt) M:5 Lag 1 - E/X i wish i could tell you what he said * Su_Graham said stop go on stop go on stop go on the battery was running low i had a nice sundress spread above my waist and below my naked breasts his pants were down * Su_Graham said take your pants down * Su_Graham said take your pants down he came over to me trembling and scared poor little baby * Su_Graham said i'll take care of you * Su_Graham said i'll take care of you forever he came over and put his lips against my breasts he lay gently beside me * Su_Graham said find me with your hand not your camera he found me he found me now i will get up from this lawn chair on the balcony and i will fly over the concrete wall fourteen stories high fourteen stories high [0-0:GScNxAlFMPhR] 10:29PM @Su_Graham (+is) #nikuko (+nt) M:6 Lag 1 - E/X _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 19:46:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Writers have rights over digital copies In-Reply-To: <001b01c0fdaa$9b1842e0$3353fea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i must say this makes me proud to be a member of the National Writers' Union (assuming i remembered to renew my membership which i've been known to forget to do). Jonathan Tasini is the president of the union and brought the suit on behalf of the union and writers everywhere. At 3:11 PM -0400 6/25/01, Ron Silliman wrote: >The decision in Tasini (sp?) vs. the NY Times came down this morning. >Because of who lost, it might not get the coverage it deserves, but it is >hugely important for writers everywhere. > >Ron Silliman > >--------------------- > >High court rules for freelancers' rights > >By Reuters > >June 25, 2001, 8:00 a.m. PT > >WASHINGTON--The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Monday that publishers violated >freelance contributors' copyrights by putting their articles in electronic >databases, extending the reach of copyright protections in an online age. > >The Supreme Court, by a 7-2 vote, upheld a ruling that the publishers must >pay freelance writers, photographers and artists extra for work included in >online and CD-ROM databases or must remove the material. > >The decision was a defeat for The New York Times Co; The Tribune Co.'s >Newsday; AOL Time Warner's Time Inc.; Lexis-Nexis, a unit of Anglo-Dutch >publishing group Reed Elsevier; and Bell & Howell's University Microfilms >International. > >The law does not authorize the copying at issue here, Justice Ruth Bader >Ginsburg declared for the court majority. > >Story Copyright =A9 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 02:28:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Fence Thursday Comments: To: ira@angel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thursday June 28th, 6:30 - 8:30pm Fence and Nicole Klagsbrun Gallery invite you to celebrate Fence #7, the Spring/Summer issue featuring drawings by Melissa Marks "The Adventures of Volitia: The Drip Prevails" with brief readings by contributors including Judy Budnitz Brendan Lorber Prageeta Sharma Reception at the gallery 526 West 26th Street, Room 213 New York Please let me know if you'd like to be removed from this list ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:20:37 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "][mez][" Subject: .Dam[. .Nation. .]Age. + .P[. .ain. .]. .Lace. .Ment. Comments: To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net, New Media Announcements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -.Myth. .ology. of A Damned Age.- .puncture. .d N drawn][about the phraseic][. .b. .leached yearning smoothed in2 ][blood][lust. .titan. .ic][ally][. d. .rain][ged][ings. .muted se][e][pia meats lava lamp][ray][ mu. .][cu][s.cles. -.Myth. .ologisation. of Dam. .nation.- .break. .ages N bottle necked skin. .nerve tr. .ac][t][king N queening thru flushed barr. .iers. .visc. .ID bundled in2 warmth cr. .][h][acks. -.Myso. .phobia. of Damage.- .wide-awake wash. .ings N s][aline][cru][m][bb][l][ing. .padding softly in2 p][ain][ock marks. .taun. .t][ing.ling][s vs block. .ages. .my. .age. .of. .product. .p][ain][. .lace. .ment. . . .... ..... net.wurker][mez][ n.sert x.coins.x .here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 03:35:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: poets in film MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey thank you George yes! what was the name of the one with bpNichol? bp was like 24 years old captain something or other? saw it at long time ago it was quite astonishing in a hilarious way bp was presented as the second coming thanks George ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 02:33:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: the age of audio? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hadn't really looked/listened much to http://www.laurable.com/sites.html when I mentioned it. I've spent more time with it now, particularly on her 'complete audio links' page at http://www.laurable.com/audio.html . And I have to say it's surprisingly large, very enjoyable, and certainly the most extensive collection of links to poetry in audio I've come across. A labour of love for sure. I still haven't run across any notable writings, though, about poetry readings or about tapes of poetry readings. I suspect that the best material is on tape/CD rather than in print. I would like to mention a radio show I did on Seattle's Joseph F. Keppler in 1989. He is a fine poet and the show I did on his work includes readings/performance and audio writing, interviews with some of his Seattle peers, and interviews with Joseph himself. This show was a kind of turning point for me in the way I was producing radio, also, and Joseph helped me with that transition; we worked together on the material for that show; he sent me some audio writing from Seattle and we taped a few phone interviews. Joe's poetry has changed dramatically since that time, but the radio program shows what he was up to quite well at the time, I think. I have read elsewhere on the net that his readings in Seattle from that time are considered legendary, and you will know why after listening to the show. http://vispo.com/audio/JosephKepplerSideOne.ram http://vispo.com/audio/JosephKepplerSideTwo.ram Each of the above two links is about a half hour of Real Audio. I produced over a hundred such shows and have about a hundred of them on cassette. The show was called Fine Lines and, later, ?Frame? and was aired on fifteen campus/community stations across Canada each week from 1984-90. Regards, Jim Andrews www.vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 19:41:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yep ,, and a little reading of that book will show a few poets who made films,,,whyche i still think a more interesting situ//pete spence >There's a classic book by P.Adams Sitney called _Visionary Film_ which is >about the poetic wing of avant -garde cinema. You'd probably find it >useful. > >Tom Beckett _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 19:41:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: poets in film Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the films of dirk de bruyn would interest you many of them hand coloured his nostalgic document of his return to his birthplace has some fine handcoloured footage,, but most of the films being talked about on this list so far are "entertainments" simple narrative things, maybe you people need to look at the whole area that the sitney bros were in to and documenting also chase up jonas miekas he'd show you some fine things the ART HOUSE crowd wouldn't know how to follow//pete spence >Slightly off topic... >I would like to hear from our Australian/NZ >counterparts on this burning issue. I am fascinated >by the over-the-top camp aesthetic I seem to see in >all the Australian art house films which get shown >over here -- I am thinking of Muriel's Wedding, >Priscilla, even Holy Smoke. What's up? > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:52:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: can we have our ball back? is back Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello, again. www.canwehaveourballback.com would like you to know that they are back in business. Of particular interest in this latest issue to members of this list: a new poem by Rod McKuen. Take good care. Behrle _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:40:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Laureates In-Reply-To: <20010625225101.26651.qmail@web10707.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Has anyone considered blaming the poor quality of famous American poetry on the Iowa Writers Workshop?? I was just looking at the website, and noticed this statement: "The program has produced a dozen winners of the Pulitzer Prize (most recently Jorie Graham in poetry,1996), three recent US Poet Laureates (Mark Strand, Mona Van Duyn and Rita Dove), and numerous winners of the National Book Award and other major literary honors. A list of prominent graduates and faculty would be too long to reproduce. Noted graduates include: Flannery O'Connor, John Irving, Robert Bly, Tracy Kidder, Allan Gurganus, W.P. Kinsella, Wallace Stegner, William Stafford, Bharati Mukherjee, Jane Smiley, Thom Jones, Bob Shacochis, Margaret Walker, Andre Dubus, Phil Levine, Donald Justice, Raymond Carver and T. Coraghessan Boyle." (from http://www.uiowa.edu/~iww/iww2.htm) So--- *three* poet laureates!! Maybe there's something fishy with our basic poet-producing machinery. Maybe the industrial revolution is taking a final toll on Western culture. Or is there some hitherto unnoticed connexion between the Bush Clan and the Iowa City Chosen? -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:42:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Avery E D Burns at the Zinc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Avery E. D. Burns will be Reading at the Zinc Bar, NYC, Sunday, July 1st. , 6:45 pm Avery Burns' book The Idler Wheel (Manifest Press, 2001) arrived in April. Two chapbboks appeared in 2000, A Duelling Primer (2nd Story Press), and Ekistic Displays (a+bend press). Poems have or are to come out in Aufegabe, Cello Entry, Facture, Jacket, New American Writing, and Shampoo. He has edited 7 issues of the magazine lyric& since 1992, and has curated the Canessa Park Reading Series, in San Francisco, for the past 5 years. The Zinc bar is located at 90 Houston Street, (Between La Guardia Pl. and Thompson St.), New York City =2E.. finger of wind (humanity of nature, more evident) a blond hair rides along this trap turning of the memory wheel =97Avery E. D. Burns ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:23:08 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: The Anti-Laureates MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit David Kellogg wrote: > I think the transition from Consultant to Laureate has resulted in more > conservative poets occupying the position, although the prelaureate > consultants were conservative enough. > I remember Michael Anania telling me how he argued against the change from "consultant" to "laureate" for precisely this reason: as soon as a grand title was attached, the possibility for radical or aesthetically adventurous poets being installed would be virtually nil. I say we take a vote on the anti-laureate -- you know, sort of like the anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's great "anti-classics" book series. Nominees? Bob Archambeau ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:42:51 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: New York -- Events at the Schomburg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII As part of their Africana Heritage Festival celebrating the 75th anniversary of the Schmoburg Collection, the NYPL is sponsoring three poetry-related events. All three will be held at the Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd. (between 135th & 136th streets): Friday, June 29, 6:30 P.M. -- panel discussion with Lorenzo Thomas, Joanne Gabbin and Aldon Nielsen. Saturday, June 30, 8:00 P.M. -- Poetry Reading with Amiri Baraka, Roger Bonair-Agard, Staceyann Chin, Wanda Coleman, Ruth Forman, Terrance Hayes, Haki Madhabuti, Kalama ya Salaam, Sonia Sanchez and Patricia Smith. Sundy, July 1, 6:00 P.M. -- Dialogue featuring Walter Mosley and Amiri Baraka. "Why don't they stop throwing symbols?" --Bob Kaufman Aldon L. Nielsen The George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:01:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hoa Nguyen Subject: 2 terrific reviews Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed by David Hadbawnik on BLAST from the PAST by Kenward Elsmlie and A M E R I C A N R A M B L E R by Dale Smith at poetry.org = http://www.poetry.org/issues/spring01/text/prose/reviews.html highly recommended! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:51:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: Anti-Laureate Nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. Anselm Hollo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:11:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: poets in film In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >hey thank you George >yes! >what was the name of the one with bpNichol? >bp was like 24 years old >captain something or other? >saw it at long time ago >it was quite astonishing in a hilarious way >bp was presented as the second coming >thanks George That was "The Sons of Captain Poetry," a film by Michael Ondaatje. gb -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:42:22 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: geraldine mckenzie Subject: Re: poets in film Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >I would like to hear from our Australian/NZ >counterparts on this burning issue. I am fascinated >by the over-the-top camp aesthetic I seem to see in >all the Australian art house films which get shown >over here -- I am thinking of Muriel's Wedding, >Priscilla, even Holy Smoke. What's up? >> > > > > I need to think about this more but, off the top of my head, a few points - perhaps the most interesting is that these films are not considered art house here, they've all had a large audience which includes kids. I think the humour is part of the attraction - this country has produced quite a wonderful variety of comic performers and/or writers and satire is always popular. I don't know if anyone OS (as Australians sometimes term the rest of the world) has seen a TV series called The Games (just one of many examples), an almost uncannily prophetic satire combining the meticulous observation that characterises a lot of the best Australian comedy, the always beautifully underplayed performance of John Clarke (a Kiwi) and fellows, and a streak of sheer silliness that is particularly appropriate in satirising politics in this country. Didn't mean to say so much about the above so i'll briefly hit on the 'camp aesthetic' without knowing quite what to say other than there's clearly an interest/attraction in the idea/practice of men dressing as women - everyone knows about the Gay Mardi Gras, I'd imagine, but it's not uncommon to see footballers, for instance, grabbing the opportunity to put on drag ostensibly for a laugh, it also crops up in ads - I suspect a major part of the thrill is the sense of licence perhaps, the otherness maybe - it's certainly quite opposite to the stereotyped Australian male and yet that's precisely the sort of person who is often attracted by it. What makes it more interesting (and deserving of a much more informed comment than I can provide) is the strong homophobic tradition in this country which some social commentators (I'm thinking of someone whose name temporarily eludes me) link to that significant section of our past where Australian society was chiefly male and there was undoubtedly the sort of activity which is described as homosexual but where the participants don't acknowledge it as such. (See The Fatal Shore for accounts of this among the convict population.) And of course, Waltzing Matilda (the unofficial anthem) also refers or rather, comes out of, that world of men without women. Geraldine _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:55:36 -0400 Reply-To: kbell@creativity-workshop.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Creativity Workshop Subject: Few places left in Paris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Creativity Workshop: Writing, Drawing, Storytelling, and Personal Memoir NEWS, June 26, 2001 Hello. Here is the latest news on the Creativity Workshop: writing, drawing, storytelling and personal memoir. ---We have very few places left for our Paris Creativity Workshop August 13 - 18. http://www.creativityworkshop.com/paris.html ---We just added a new workshop in Florence October 22 - 30. ---For information on cheap last minute flights check the Airfare section on our web site. ---If you are interested in reading more about the workshop, we can send you some very interesting magazine articles and interviews which have been written about it. ---Please see below our updated Calendar. For more extended information please go to: http://www.creativityworkshop.com or call Tel: (212) 249-1602 Regards, Karen Bell Administrative Associate mailto:kbell@creativityworkshop.com SUMMARY 1...Creativity Workshop: General information 2...Calendar of Workshops 3...Where the workshop has been taught 4...What people say about the Creativity Workshop 5...The teachers 6...To register or request more information ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1...Creativity Workshop: General Information We are all born creative, curious and imaginative but these qualities sometimes fade with the passage of time. The Creativity Workshop's goal is to help people get their imaginations back. Find your particular way of expression and break through the fears associated with creation. This internationally renowned intensive workshop brings together people of all backgrounds, cultures, and interests to discover new and exciting tools for generating creativity and thinking and working in new and exciting ways. Process not Product The Creativity Workshop is for anyone interested in expanding their creative potential. The workshop is attended by educators, artists, business executives, writers, lawyers, doctors, homemakers, advertising and design people--all with the common goal of experimenting with their imaginations and finding new ways to stimulate and expand their creative potential. Shelley Berc and Alejandro Fogel have developed a series of exercises designed to help participants develop and recognize their individual creative processes. Participants explore different artistic materials and mediums in order to discover their own unique ways of expression and to learn to break through the fears and distractions that inhibit creativity. Tools for a Lifetime The exercises used in the Creativity Workshop are intended to become the tools for a lifetime of creative expression. Participants are encouraged to draw from all kinds of resources of creativity -such as the oral tradition, dreams, childhood memories, sense perceptions and intuition. Working both individually and in collaborative groups, participants explore their imaginative potential through exercises in writing, drawing, collage, map making, story telling and guided visualization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2...Calendar JULY Florence, Italy July 23 - August 3, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/florence.html 12 day workshop Tuition Fee: $1,500 (includes housing) (Special fellowships for Italian participants available) AUGUST Paris, France August 13 - 18 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/paris.html 6 day workshop Tuition Fee: $1,500 (includes housing) SEPTEMBER New York City September 15 - 16, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 2 day intensive weekend workshop: Saturday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM, Sunday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM Tuition Fee: $300 New York City September 24 - 28, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 5 day workshop Monday through Friday 4 to 7 PM Tuition Fee: $600 Check with us for tuition + hotel packages OCTOBER New York City October 13 - 14, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 2 day intensive weekend workshop: Saturday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM, Sunday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM Tuition Fee: $300 ---NEW: FALL WORKSHOP IN FLORENCE--- Florence, Italy October 22 - 30, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/florence.html 9 day workshop. Tuition Fee: $1,000 Check with us for tuition + hotel packages mailto:kbell@creativityworkshop.com (Special fellowships for Italian participants available) NOVEMBER New York City November 17 - 18, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 2 day intensive weekend workshop: Saturday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM, Sunday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM Tuition Fee: $300 DECEMBER New York City December 8 - 9, 2001 http://www.creativityworkshop.com/newyork.html 2 day intensive weekend workshop: Saturday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM, Sunday from 11 AM to 4:30 PM Tuition Fee: $300 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 3...The Creativity Workshop has been taught at: International Writing Program at the University of Iowa, Iowa, USA. National Institute of Education at Singapore University, Singapore. The Art Alliance. New York, USA. Yldiz University. Istanbul, Turkey. Nerengi Institute. Istanbul, Turkey. Prima del Teatro (University of Pisa). San Miniato, Italy. Scuola Drammatica San Remo. San Remo, Italy. Academy of Drama and Film. Milan, Italy. Prague Summer Writers Workshop. Prague, Czech Republic. Writing Beyond the Walls. Lucca, Italy. Spoleto Arts Symposia. Spoleto, Italy. United World College. Trieste, Italy. Australian National University. Canberra, Australia. Australian National Playwright Conference. Canberra, Australia. NSW Writers Workshop. Sydney, Australia. Performance Studies Department. University of Sydney. Sydney, Australia. Hungarian Ethnic Artists Festival. Kisvarda, Hungary. Art School of the Aegean. Samos, Greece. Scuola Sagarana. Lucca, Italy, among others. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 4...What people say about the Creativity Workshop "The new millennium needs bold, creative men and women who can turn their dreams into reality... Shelley Berc and Alejandro Fogel show how you can do this through their challenging and inspiring creativity workshops...even a simple first contact will prove what these two talented teachers can do for your own gifts." Dr. Kirpal Singh, Writer, Professor, Singapore Management University. "The Creativity Workshop in Spoleto has been a very special experience for me. It opened up new ways to look at my work and I found new friendships. I spent 15 fantastic days in an incredible place. Shelley and Alejandro are superb teachers!" Vera Eisenberg, painter, Argentina "The Workshop was such a powerful experience for me, something I never expected nor would I ever be able to repeat it." Rolfe Werner, Engineer. Canberra, Australia. "I found the workshop extremely valuable in generating awareness of my creativity and in stimulating ideas." Jeanne Arthur, Executive Officer, ACT Board of Secondary School Studies. Canberra, Australia. "I feel as though I now have a focus, a method, a way of evolving my ideas and that the means are just as important as the end. I have created environments just to create in, and environments just to display the work in. My vision of attending to each detail, sound, smell, texture, substance... is starting to find a home. Thanks for opening my eyes to these essential aspects of creating through your guidance and example." Student. University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA. "This class was THE MOST enriching, enlightening, inspirational class I have ever taken. The way I work and what I create will never be the same." Student. University of Iowa, USA. "Shelley and Alejandro's Creativity Workshop is amazing in that it breaks down all your fears about thinking and writing. If it wasn't for them I fear I never would have finished my master's thesis. I was blocked until I took this course." Francesca Salidu PHD candidate in Shakespeare, University of Pisa. San Miniato, Italy. "Shelley Berc and Alejandro Fogel taught their Creativity Workshop as American Cultural Specialists under the United States Information Service auspices. To say that they were extremely effective is a vast understatement. I would unreservedly recommend their course. They have abundant creativity, energy, and a wealth of skills." Gloria Berbena, Asst. Cultural Attaché, US Information Service, US Embassy. Rome, Italy. "A special experience. Berc and Fogel opened us up to new and wonderful ways of looking at our creativity." Belkis Bottfeld, PHD, psychologist. Istanbul, Turkey. "An unforgettable course!" Gulnur Ayaz, MD. Istanbul, Turkey. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 5...The teachers Shelley Berc is a writer and teacher. She is a professor of the International Writing Program at the University of Iowa. Her novels, plays, and essays which include 'The Shape of Wilderness', 'A Girl's Guide to the Divine Comedy' and 'Theatre of the Mind' have been published by Coffee House Press, Johns Hopkins Press, Heinemann Books, Performing Arts Journal and Theatre Communications Group Press. Her plays have been produced by theatres such as the American Repertory Theatre, the Yale Rep, and the Edinburgh Festival. Alejandro Fogel is a visual artist and teacher working in painting, site installations, video and digital art. He has exhibited his works in galleries and museums in Argentina, Bulgaria, Cuba, France, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, United States and Germany. His ongoing project 'Root to Route' chronicles his father's journey through the Holocaust years. His work is in private collections and museums around the world. Berc and Fogel explain in theory and demonstrate in practice the concepts of originality, 'appropriation', memory and imagination. Under their guidance, participants explore their own creative processes through different writing and drawing exercises. They emphasize the intimate link between personal and public spheres, individual and social practices, history and myth, dream and reality. The focus of the workshop is on process not product and to help participants find life-long tools of creative expression. Shelley Berc and Alejandro Fogel have taught their Creativity Workshop internationally. They have lectured on creativity and their own work at universities and cultural centers throughout the world. They currently teach the Creativity Workshop as an intensive semester long course at the International Writing Program of The University of Iowa. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6...To register or to request more information please contact Karen Bell: mailto:kbell@creativityworkshop.com or register online at: http://www.creativityworkshop.com or call Tel: (212) 249-1602 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TO BE REMOVED FROM THIS LIST If you have received this mailing in error, or do not wish to receive any further mailings please go to: http://www.creativityworkshop.com/join.html Click on the unsubscribe option and you will be removed from this list automatically. PLEASE NOTE: our e-mails are never unsolicited. You are receiving this because you either registered for our newsletter on our website with your email address or through an opt-in email list affiliate. This e-newsletter is sent in compliance with the new e-mail bill section 301. Under Bill S.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th US Congress. This message cannot be considered SPAM as long as we include the way for your e-mail address to be removed, Paragraph (a)(c) of S.1618. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:35:13 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: anti-laureates, readings on readings, and a query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII first the query -- can anybody b.ch. me with a mailing address or email for Gerrit Lansing? -- anti-laureates -- I doubt that you could argue persuasively that the poets named to the laureateship have been, on average, any more conservative than those who held the consultantship -- the most aesthetically radical was Williams, who was never permitted to assume the position -- but with the advent of the new title, the LOC set about rapidly recycling the oldest and most conservative of those who had already held the post as Consultants -- there had always been an unspoken rule that you got two years max and couldn't be reappointed beyond that-- but the powers that would be apparently felt that some Consultants were more equal to the task than others -- -- as to writings on readings -- there was a whole book of them some years ago -- I THINK edited by Stephen Vincent (forgive my bad memory -- the book itself is in a box waiting to go to PA) -- I'm sure somebody on the list can produce the title -- "Why don't they stop throwing symbols?" --Bob Kaufman Aldon L. Nielsen The George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:06:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ANASTASIOS KOZAITIS Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I nominate JAY WRIGHT Anastasios Kozaitis At 12:51 AM 6/27/01, you wrote: ><anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's great "anti-classics" book series. >Nominees? Bob Archambeau>> > >I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. > >Anselm Hollo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:02:44 -0600 Reply-To: Laura.Wright@Colorado.EDU Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Wright Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I heartily second the nomination of ALICE NOTLEY. -- Laura Wright Serials Cataloging Norlin Library, University of Colorado, Boulder (303) 492-3923 "Owning language is a weird phenomenon which makes less sense now than it ever did." --Bernadette Mayer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:18:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/27/2001 8:55:36 AM, JDHollo@AOL.COM writes: << <> I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. Anselm Hollo >> I nominate Kenneth Koch (grossly underappreciated). William James Austin William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 07:39:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Laureate of the Illuminati (or Eris Loves Iowa Too) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i smell an Illuminati conspiracy centered in Iowa - a kind of re-education/hypnosis program convincing its followers that they are "poets" they do this so convincingly they manage to fool the highest levels of power - and the buyers of poetry why do you think poetry isn't carried in bookstores? because no one reads it? Hardly! forget Bush - he's just a pawn be afraid - trust no one - deny everything *fnord* michael > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:40:27 -0500 > From: Aaron Belz > Subject: Re: Laureates > > Has anyone considered blaming the poor quality > of famous American poetry on > the Iowa Writers Workshop?? I was just looking > at the website, and noticed > this statement: > > "The program has produced a dozen winners of > the Pulitzer Prize (most > recently Jorie Graham in poetry,1996), three > recent US Poet Laureates (Mark > Strand, Mona Van Duyn and Rita Dove), and > numerous winners of the National > Book Award and other major literary honors. A > list of prominent graduates > and faculty would be too long to reproduce. > Noted graduates include: > Flannery O'Connor, John Irving, Robert Bly, > Tracy Kidder, Allan Gurganus, > W.P. Kinsella, Wallace Stegner, William > Stafford, Bharati Mukherjee, Jane > Smiley, Thom Jones, Bob Shacochis, Margaret > Walker, Andre Dubus, Phil > Levine, Donald Justice, Raymond Carver and T. > Coraghessan Boyle." > (from http://www.uiowa.edu/~iww/iww2.htm) > > So--- *three* poet laureates!! Maybe there's > something fishy with our basic > poet-producing machinery. Maybe the industrial > revolution is taking a final > toll on Western culture. Or is there some > hitherto unnoticed connexion > between the Bush Clan and the Iowa City Chosen? > > > -Aaron ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:02:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: NY Times, model newspaper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > URGENT-FREELANCERS, MAKE A PHONE CALL TO PROTECT YOUR > RIGHTS! > > In the wake of the Supreme Court victory for freelancers, > the New York Times is attempting to mitigate their > financial liabilities by seizing rights from freelancers. > > DO NOT SIGN ANY CONTRACT THE TIMES IS OFFERING--EITHER > IN PRINT OR ON THE WEB. YOU WILL BE GIVING UP YOUR > RIGHTS AND POTENTIAL FINANCIAL COMPENSATION STEMMING > FROM THE SUPREME COURT VICTORY. > > In a Times "news" story covering their loss in the > Supreme Court on June 25, two telephone numbers were > published. Freelance writers were invited to call the > numbers if they wanted "their work to remain available." > > When one dials the numbers, a recorded message, citing > the Supreme Court decision, says that the Times is > "obliged" to remove freelance articles from electronic > archives. Writers are then told that, if they want > to keep their material in the Times' electronic archives, > they must sign a contract-available on the web or via > mail-granting the Times' the rights to your articles, > for no further compensation AND releasing the Times > from any claims for compensation in the future. > > The National Writers Union is asking writers everywhere > to flood the NY Times with phone calls immediately > beginning at 9 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on Wednesday > June 27, 2001 (if you see this message after that time, > it's still important to make the calls). We are asking > that you make two calls. The first to the automated > message-when you reach the message, do not select the > option to visit the web. Wait until the message ends > and gives you options to receive the contract via mail > and leave a recorded message making the following points: > We want fair compensation for our work. We will not > sign away our rights under duress. We believe in preserving > the public record and there is no reason to delete > articles-the Supreme Court cited licensing systems > as one option. The NWU has created the Publication > Rights Clearinghouse, which will resolve the liabilities > from the lawsuit by legally licensing rights to individual > articles > > Then, call the office of the Times' Publisher Arthur > Sulzberger and object to the Times' rejection of offers > the NWU has made to negotiate, as well as the paper's > attempt to take away rights from writers without fair > compensation. > > Phone numbers: > Automated message: (212)-556-8008; (212-)-556-8009; > 888-814-2698 (toll free) > > Arthur Sulzberger: 212-556-3588 > > Send an e-mail to nwu@nwu.org to let us know you made > the call! > > Solidarity, > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:40:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: The Anti-Laureates Comments: To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed My vote for anti-laureate: Suzanne Somers. Alternate choice: Ficus strangulensis. >From: Robert Archambeau >Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: The Anti-Laureates >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:23:08 -0500 > >David Kellogg wrote: > > > I think the transition from Consultant to Laureate has resulted in more > > conservative poets occupying the position, although the prelaureate > > consultants were conservative enough. > > > >I remember Michael Anania telling me how he argued against the change from >"consultant" to "laureate" for precisely this reason: as soon as a grand >title >was attached, the possibility for radical or aesthetically adventurous >poets >being installed would be virtually nil. > >I say we take a vote on the anti-laureate -- you know, sort of like the >anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's great "anti-classics" book series. > >Nominees? > >Bob Archambeau ......................................... || K. Silem Mohammad || Literature Department || University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:47:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: poets in film MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If the question "poets in films" can be expanded as "the exploration of the nature of art in films," the argument may become more fruitful. But before that let me refer to a few films involving poets which nobody mentioned before: a) in many of Rudy Burckhardt's films poets (and painters) appear and read their own or others' work, particularly John Ashberry's work. c) The bard-poet character who appears in the movie "....the Fool??" also appears in the movie "My Private Idaho," as the bard/guru around whom street hustlers congregate. This character, I understand, was based on a real Seattle street poet who died a few years ago. As for the wider question of exploring the nature of art and its processes in films: besides the obvious ones -which represent the cliche versions of creative process, e.g. Pollock (art as business), Scorcese's awful movie about a "painter" with Nick Nolte (artist as a romantic egoist)- two gems: First, "The Kiss of the Spider Woman." The parallel this movie creates between the visual phantasies, the camp style of a nazi movie and the conditions in the prison cell itself are one of the most profound statements about the relationship between "life" and "art." Art as consolation, art as wooing, art as passing the time, etc. Second, the movie, called "Art" I think, about a lesbian photographer (forgot her name). In this movie also a style representing the photographer's life and loves is intercut with her color photography which has a more intense version of the color palette of the rest of the film. Once again, the movie embodies a stylistic dialectic, one reflecting, intensifying, commenting on the other. Also, in the movie, an affair between her and a magazine interviewer ends up her taking the interviewer's nude photos to be published in the magazine -a subtle exploring of the relation between creation and mutual exploitation. I have an unrelated question from the list. A poet friend of mine has just moved to Orlando, Florida. Does any poetry community, readings, poets, etc., exist in the area? Please let me know, preferably directly: Muratnn@aol.com. Ciao. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:06:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - go around and use whatever bricolage you can find gathering dust and clutter in whatever debris detritus or excreta whatever's available suddenly an error and suddenly a piece everything becomes fodder for the text the text is a devouring maw the text hungers for content, i lose sleep, i don't know just when i'm going to be able to stop, just when advance occurs when i think i have it right, there's an advance or a relief that the clutter has coagulated into the semblance of content when i think nothing of it, "don't think anything of it," "i didn't mean anything by it," there's stasis, prolongation sexual content mixes with the debris, it holds me there, fastens, fashions, fascinates it's what i found when i pulled inside you with my fingers, hand, wrist, arm what comes out mixes with error and excreta, debris and denouement coupling with lassitude, languor so you can think about what has happened to you and the words so you can think about the world and what is happening it's built on debris and bricolage, on fragments and accumulations, on fair and unfair portions, on shares and certifications again and again i have it right again and again the world advances _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:51:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Coletti Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I second that nomination. -John Coletti -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Anselm Hollo Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:51 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Anti-Laureate Nomination <> I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. Anselm Hollo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:27:23 -0400 Reply-To: bkrogers@catskill.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rogers Subject: Re: Word Thursdays presents Barbara Adams & Jody Azzouni In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE June 27, 2001 Contact: Bertha Rogers, 607-746-7306 WORD THURSDAYS TO PRESENT NEWBURGH POET & WRITER BARBARA ADAMS AND BROOKLYN POET & WRITER JODY AZZOUNI Treadwell, NY=96 On Thursday, June 28, Word Thursdays will feature Barbara Adams, a poet and writer from Newburgh, and Jody Azzouni, a poet and writer from Brooklyn, at Bright Hill Farm, 6430 County Highway 16, three miles south of Treadwell and 2 miles north of the West Delhi Church. Adams and Azzouni will read their work after the regular open reading during which all attending are invited to read from their work or that of others. The evening begins at 7 p.m., and refreshments are served. Barbara Adams has published widely in poetry, fiction, and nonfiction. Her publications include =93The Enemy Self: Poet and Criticism of Laura Riding,=94 a book of literary criticism; poetry collections =93Hapax Leogomena=94 and =93Double Solitaire=94; and many poems, stories, and essays in magazines and journals, including =93Madison Review,=94 =93The Nation,=94 =93Texas Review,=94 =93Bellingham Review,=94 =93Belles Lettres,=94 and =93Negative Capability.=94 Her first play, =93God=92s Lioness and the Crow: Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes,=94 was produced in 2000 by the Mohonk Stage Company in New Paltz. She recently retired from Pace University. Jody Azzouni has published poetry and fiction in such magazines as =93The Hollins Critic,=94 =93Hiram Poetry Review,=94 =93Artful Doge,=94 =93Pleiades,=94 =93The Bitter Oleander,=94 =93Hanging Loose,=94 =93Cider Press Review,=94 =93Alaska Quarterly Review,=94 and =93California Quarterly.=94 His book of poetry, =93The Lust for Blueprints,=94 was published by The Poet=92s Press. He is an associate professor of philosophy at Tufts University and has published books with Cambridge University Press and with Routledge in philosophy of mathematics and philosophy of science. Word Thursdays/Bright Hill Press readings are sponsored in part by the New York State Council on the Arts, the National Endowment for the Arts, and by Word Thursdays/Bright Hill Press members and friends. The readings are recorded for Word Thursdays Radio by Writers programs by Jack Schluep. There is a nominal admissions fee. Refreshments will be served. For more information, and for directions, call Word Thursdays at 607-746-7306 (email: wordthur@catskill.net.) Word Thursdays may also be visited on the New York State Literary Curators Web Site, http://www.nyslittree.org, where a complete schedule of readings and events for the 2001 season may be found. ----------------------30------------------------ WWW.NYSLITTREE.ORG -- A WORLD OF WORDS! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:40:56 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Risque ][of][ N.fection" Subject: Sig.N.ature ][licking the signature static][ Comments: To: New Media Announcements , list@rhizome.org, syndicate@eg-r.isp-eg.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <---stretched breakbeat point <---motionless and ][co][de][ine][pendent <---jilt & phreak the o][e][ther -------------------------][f][licking the s][ig.nature][tatic switch >----my fingers bleed want.on/off c][w][ords >----my head revolves in2 d][na][ust >----my back crumbles b-neath graven texts |--------my eyes abort |-----my arms crack luddites |------my ears sing sonar ------------------][n][au][ghty][diophonet][h][ics meat][y][ings --------------shuffling off ov awkwardian feet [my discourse is tyred copycattishness vs photocopied a diesel smearing oiled slickness drowning my pe][vi][trolling ][h][eavi.dent.] i search n destroy, .re][a][plete. .delete. .re.peat. *************************endpoint1**************** Backspacings stretched b.yond a breakbeat point Back breakages = motionless and codeine co.de.pendent Back][more or][less jiltings & phreaking the other ether flicking the _Sign Nature_ switch ][licking the signature static][ Shifting tingles as my fingers bleed want.on/off wurdcords Shifts of telling my head 2 evolve DNA dust Shiftless - my back crumbles b-neath graven texts Deleting - my eyes abort Denouement - my arms crack luddites Defaced - my ears sing static naughty audiophonethics meetings shuffling off of awkward poetic feet [my discourse is tired cattishness vs the photocopied a dyptych smearing oiled savagery drowning my Petrarch heavy & evident.] i search .....&....search......&....... replete delete repeat *************************endpoint2**************** . . .... ..... net.wurker][risque.ov.n.fection][ n.sect.ile x.cuts.x .go.here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:06:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Outlet (7) Heroines -- available now! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Double Lucy Books is proud to announce the publication of Outlet (7)= Heroines, in which --=20 LAUREN GUDATH, PAM BROWN, LIZ WALDNER, JIM BEHRLE, PRATIBHA KELAPURE, JESSICA SMITH, MK FRANCISCO, RACHEL BLAU DUPLESSIS, CAROL MIRAKOVE, EILEEN TABIOS, CARRIE ETTER, YEDDA MORRISON, BRIAN KENNEY, GRACE LOVELACE, JENNIFER DICK, DAVID STOLER, JAMIE PEREZ, LESLIE BARY, JULIANA SPAHR, ANGE MLINKO, K. SILEM MOHAMMAD, MARGARET T. MINNICK, CHRIS STROFFOLINO, KAIA SAND, SAWAKO NAKAYASU, REBECCA WOLFF, SARAH MANGOLD, NAVA FADER, ARIELLE GREENBERG, ANTOINETTE CLAYPOOLE, MICHAEL MAGEE, GWYN MCVAY, & MANY OTHERS ** CONTEMPLATE ** GEORGE ELIOT, DJUNA BARNES, MAGDALENA JALANDONI, MINA LOY, MURIEL RUKEYSER, MAUD GONNE, STEVIE SMITH, THOMAS HARDY, TOVE JANNSON, GERTRUDE STEIN, JANE AUSTEN, BEVERLY DAHLEN, MIRABAI, ZORA NEALE HURSTON, RAMONA QUIMBY, ADELAIDE CRAPSEY, JANE EYRE, H.D., VIRGINIA WOOLF, MILDRED HAUN, ALICE NOTLEY, MYUNG MI KIM, FRANCES OSGOOD, JANET FRAME, LAYNIE BROWNE, MARGARET DRABBLE, RICHARD BRAUTIGAN, UNICA ZURN, HEATHER RAMSDELL, GRACE PALEY, MEDEA, RAPHAELE GEORGE, LESLIE=20 SCALAPINO, THOMAS PYNCHON, PHOEBE CAULFIELD, FRANCES CHUNG, LYNDA BARRY, ELIZA HAYWOOD, HETTIE JONES, SIMONE DE BEAUVOIR, LAURA INGALLS WILDER, JANE BOWLES, & MANY MANY OTHERS. & which contains more specifically -- new POETRY by Nicole Burrows Allison Cobb Nava Fader MK Francisco Lauren Gudath Arielle Greenberg Sarah Mangold Carol Mirakove Kaia Sand Jessica Smith Carra Stratton Elizabeth Treadwell new PROSE by Grace Lovelace Margaret T. Minnick Ange Mlinko PLUS the RESULTS OF OUR SURVEY on WOMEN, TIME, WRITING & READING, with long notes from Liz Waldner, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, & the eds; medium-sized notes from Eileen Tabios, Yedda Morrison, Michael Magee, Chris Stroffolino, & many others; shorter notes from Rebecca Wolff, David Stoler, Juliana Spahr, Gwyn McVay, Jennifer Dick, Pam Brown, Jim Behrle, & lots of others....(THANK YOU ALL!) all these handsome 62 pp. can be yours for $5 ppd. checks to ET Jackson, sent to Outlet (c/o Double Lucy Books) PO Box 9013 Berkeley, CA 94709 USA http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy =93The exceptions, to be sure, are heartening: Double Lucy Books of= Berkeley, California showcases women poets writing in innovative ways.=94 =97 Rhizome P.S. contributor & subscriber copies will go in the mail this weekend; please do contact us if your address has changed. thanks. eds. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:15:53 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Okay, folks, I'm taking this Anti-Laureate idea global. In the tradition of the Russian Belyi prize for unrecognized literature, the award will take the form of one bottle of vodka, along with an announcement of the winner in this summer's edition of Samizdat (which features Michael Heller and Belgian Surrealism). Add to that the possible printing of a limited edition chapbook by the winner from Samizdat Editions. Send your nominations to me at archambeau@lfc.edu until July 3, and I'll annouce the winner of the first Anti-Laureate competion to the list on July 4th. All poets are eligible (non-US poets too), except those with Iowa MFAs, Pulitzer Prizes, or strong personal ties to Helen Vendler. Nominees so far are: John M. Bennett Karl Kempton Will Inman Alan Sondheim Ron Silliman Kathy Ernst Richard Kostelanetz Alice Notley and (my nominee) Pierre Joris (who has the added alure of being from Luxembourg, a country grossly underrepresented among U.S. Poets Laureate). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:55:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Molly Schwartzburg Subject: wanted: translations, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mantis, a journal of poetry, poetry translation, and poetry criticism at Stanford University is currently seeking submissions for its second issue, "Poetry and Translation." We are seeking translations, critical work, and poetry that addresses this theme, broadly conceived. Possible topics/themes include: POETRY IN MULTIPLE LANGUAGES, POETRY AND FORGERY, POETRY AND MANUSCRIPT, POETRY AND PROPAGANDA, POETRY AND PHONETIC LEGITIMACY, FALSE ORIGINALS, PASTICHE, ALLUSION, MACARONICS, ETC. Our current deadline for submissions is JULY 31, 2001. We welcome individual poetry submissions of up to four poems. Members of groups or writing collectives that submit work together are invited to send up to ten poems. Translators are requested to include copies of what they are translating in the original language, along with a brief statement about the original poet and his or her work; translations will be published with the original en face. Permissions for reprinting originals are the responsibility of the translator. Critical submissions should be no more than 5000 words (15-20 double-spaced pages), formatted according to the guidelines in the most recent edition of the MLA Manual of Style. We request that all submissions include a cover letter with a brief statement by the author about how his or her work addresses the relationships between poetry and translation. Please send contributions to us at Mantis Department of English Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2087 or e-mail your submission to mantispoetry@hotmail.com. We look forward to hearing from you soon. --Molly Schwartzburg ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:28:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Massey Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I nominate CA Conrad! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:52:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Nominees so far are: > >John M. Bennett > >Karl Kempton > >Will Inman > >Alan Sondheim > >Ron Silliman > >Kathy Ernst > >Richard Kostelanetz > >Alice Notley > >and (my nominee) Pierre Joris Hey, where's Ficus Strangulensis??? Doesn't my vote count? I'll withdraw the Suzanne Sommers nomination; I'm not an unreasonable man.... Kasey ......................................... || K. Silem Mohammad || Literature Department || University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:16:10 -0600 Reply-To: maryangeline@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Angeline Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I second the nomination for ALICE NOTLEY. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anselm Hollo To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: 6/27/01 6:55:26 AM Subject: Anti-Laureate Nomination anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's great "anti-classics" book series. Nominees? Bob Archambeau I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. --- Mary Angeline Peace Happy Blessings ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:40:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: pro-Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes - Kenneth Koch, for god's sake -- all the work he's done promoting poetry to a larger populace, while maintaining fidelity to an experimental, innovative, hilarious poetics. RON PADGETT -- luminary of Teachers & Writers Collaborative for decades -- spreading poetry beyond boundaries of generation, race, time, etc... --daniel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:25:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination In-Reply-To: <6c.c36da0c.286b4536@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think we're missing something implicit in "anti." Aren't we looking for the most opposite to the laureate possible? I therefore nominate Bob Kaufman, who is more opposite to Billy Collins than any of the previous nominees, because Collins is alive and Kaufman is dead. Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 22:22:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Lewis Subject: Comments: To: June Avignone , Rick Barr , Bernadette , Donna Cartelli , Camille DAlonzo , Jordan Davis , Tom Devaney , Ed Foster , Alan Gilbert , Heather Hallock , Jana Harris , Cailin Harrison , Elizabeth Hayes , Bob Holman , Dan Janal , Micky Jenkins , Beth Kissinger , Kathy Kuenzle , Gary Lenhart , Sara Logue , Lilla Lyon , Mike & Carole Manchon , Marsha , Cree McCree , Josie McKee , Christine Meilicke , Holly Metz , Stephen Paul Miller , MuratNN , Kevin O'Reilly , "Paul R. Otremba" , Tom Pickard , Sonia Pilcer , Robert Pinsky , Richard Porton , Terry Ripmaster , Robert Sahagian , Michael Scaserra , ED SMITH , Janet Steen , Jessica Stillman , Chris Stroffolino , Gary Sullivan , Peppard Vinnie , Jim Watson , Jack Weiss , Susan Wheeler , Stew Wolpin , Fran Wood , NINA ZIVANCEVIC Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit POETRY READING IN HOBOKEN Joel Lewis Murat Nemat-Nejat Amanda Gardner Rosemary McLaughlin Sunday, July 15, 4pm Hoboken Historical Museum 1301 Hudson Street (13th Street, one block East of Washington) (201) 656-2240 Party After Reading This is the first reading this new museum, right at the Hudson River. Hopefully, a good turnout will result in poetry being part of regular museum programming. A good excuse to visit Hoboken e-mail if you need directions ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 01:43:21 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Laureate of the Illuminati (or Eris Loves Iowa Too) In-Reply-To: <20010627143931.91699.qmail@web10805.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 32. immanetizing the eschaton, patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of michael amberwind > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:40 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Laureate of the Illuminati (or Eris Loves Iowa Too) > > > i smell an Illuminati conspiracy centered in Iowa > - a kind of re-education/hypnosis program > convincing its followers that they are "poets" > > they do this so convincingly they manage to fool > the highest levels of power - and the buyers of > poetry > > why do you think poetry isn't carried in > bookstores? because no one reads it? Hardly! > forget Bush - he's just a pawn > > be afraid - trust no one - deny everything > > *fnord* > > michael > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:40:27 -0500 > > From: Aaron Belz > > Subject: Re: Laureates > > > > Has anyone considered blaming the poor quality > > of famous American poetry on > > the Iowa Writers Workshop?? I was just looking > > at the website, and noticed > > this statement: > > > > "The program has produced a dozen winners of > > the Pulitzer Prize (most > > recently Jorie Graham in poetry,1996), three > > recent US Poet Laureates (Mark > > Strand, Mona Van Duyn and Rita Dove), and > > numerous winners of the National > > Book Award and other major literary honors. A > > list of prominent graduates > > and faculty would be too long to reproduce. > > Noted graduates include: > > Flannery O'Connor, John Irving, Robert Bly, > > Tracy Kidder, Allan Gurganus, > > W.P. Kinsella, Wallace Stegner, William > > Stafford, Bharati Mukherjee, Jane > > Smiley, Thom Jones, Bob Shacochis, Margaret > > Walker, Andre Dubus, Phil > > Levine, Donald Justice, Raymond Carver and T. > > Coraghessan Boyle." > > (from http://www.uiowa.edu/~iww/iww2.htm) > > > > So--- *three* poet laureates!! Maybe there's > > something fishy with our basic > > poet-producing machinery. Maybe the industrial > > revolution is taking a final > > toll on Western culture. Or is there some > > hitherto unnoticed connexion > > between the Bush Clan and the Iowa City Chosen? > > > > > > -Aaron > > > ===== > ...I am a real poet. My poem > is finished and I haven't mentioned > orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call > it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery > I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. > [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:51:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: Poets in Film Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: "The movie, called "Art" I think, about a lesbian photographer (forgot her name). In this movie also a style representing the photographer's life and loves is intercut with her color photography which has a more intense version of the color palette of the rest of the film. Once again, the movie embodies a stylistic dialectic, one reflecting, intensifying, commenting on the other. Also, in the movie, an affair between her and a magazine interviewer ends up her taking the interviewer's nude photos to be published in the magazine -a subtle exploring of the relation between creation and mutual exploitation." I think this film was called "High Art." I remember when it came out a few years ago, people were commenting on how the director or writer Lisa Chodolenko seemed to have taken all of Nan Goldin's seediest traits and told Ally Sheedy to play her like a tragic heroine. I would have liked to be a fly on the wall when Goldin met Chodolenko! "High Art" is kind of an East Village "All About Eve" as the young straight woman attempts to outdo her wounded mentor in both art and sexuality. The younger woman if I recall was played by the Australian actress Radha Mitchell who later became an action heroine in one of my other favorite pictures PITCH BLACK! Mitchell is always great. Like Kylie Minogue, Russell Crowe, Guy Pearce she began her career on the Australian soap "Neighbours." "High Art" by the way also features in a small part a really great NY writer, Laurie Weeks, who appears during a party sequence and stares into the camera looking drugged out and decadent. And nobody who sees it ever forgets Patricia Clarkson, who plays the Nan Goldin character's best pal, a washed-up German actress and chanteuse who once worked for Fassbinder et cetera. Clarkson does a really funny job she is like Patsy on Ab Fab channelling Nico. Ok, enough background from me! Keep up this enjoyable thread of "Poets in Film." have we all seen Charles Bernstein yet in the Van Sant film? -- Kevin K. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:25:20 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: poets in film MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/27/2001 9:06:29 PM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << Second, the movie, called "Art" I think, about a lesbian photographer (forgot her name). >> Yes, this one was sort of interesting. The title is "High Art," if I'm not mistaken. Ally Sheehey played the drug addict photographer. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:56:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Upping the Anti-Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i fail to see how one individual appointed by elites (even anti-elites elites) to speak for poetry (or anti-poetry poetry) is different from another officially recognised poet appointed to speak for or to the elites *scratches head* can anyone untangle what i just said for me - i am confused... *breaks out Strunk & Whites style guide and shudders* i nominate Scott Carlson for Poet Laureate of the U.$.A. my reasons? 1) He'd never accept the position 2) None of you have ever heard of him - he is only published in six magazines 3) He has embraced complete rejection of tradition as the path to Pure Art 4) I love and hate his work 5) He's a good friend of mine 6) He's Canadian - I think the true anti-Laureate of North America would be Canadian... or Mexican 7) He could use the cash 8) I'd love to crash all the parties he would no doubt be invited to and make an ass of myself 9) His poems make absolutely no sense whatsoever 10) Even though I am a MUCH better poet than he is - something I tell him all the time but (to his credit) he never believes me. He is a vastly over-rated poet by himself, and vastly under-rated one by all others. > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:35:13 +0000 > From: anielsen@LMU.EDU > Subject: anti-laureates, readings on readings, > and a query > > first the query -- can anybody b.ch. me with a > mailing address or email for Gerrit Lansing? > > -- anti-laureates -- I doubt that you could > argue persuasively that the poets named to the > laureateship have been, on average, any more > conservative than those who held the > consultantship -- the most aesthetically > radical was Williams, who was never permitted > to assume the position -- but with the advent > of the new title, the LOC set about rapidly > recycling the oldest and most conservative of > those who had already held the post as > Consultants -- there had always been an > unspoken rule that you got two years max and > couldn't be reappointed beyond that-- but the > powers that would be apparently felt that some > Consultants were more equal to the task than > others -- > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:06:28 -0400 > From: ANASTASIOS KOZAITIS > > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > I nominate JAY WRIGHT > > Anastasios Kozaitis > > At 12:51 AM 6/27/01, you wrote: > >< you know, sort of like the > >anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's great > "anti-classics" book series. > >Nominees? Bob Archambeau>> > > > >I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. > > > >Anselm Hollo > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:02:44 -0600 > From: Laura Wright > > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > I heartily second the nomination of ALICE > NOTLEY. > -- > Laura Wright > Serials Cataloging > Norlin Library, University of Colorado, Boulder > > (303) 492-3923 > > "Owning language is a weird phenomenon which > makes less sense now than it > ever did." > --Bernadette Mayer > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:18:30 EDT > From: Austinwja@AOL.COM > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > In a message dated 6/27/2001 8:55:36 AM, > JDHollo@AOL.COM writes: > > << < -- you know, sort of like the > anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's great > "anti-classics" book series. > Nominees? Bob Archambeau>> > > I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. > > Anselm Hollo >> > > I nominate Kenneth Koch (grossly > underappreciated). > > William James Austin > > William James Austin.com > Koja Press.com > > ------------------------------ ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:09:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - ghost unravel me let it flow , it's time to let it go:: death and letting be to time to murder me, it's time to let me go, it's time to let me be, it's time death, it's the year of god's breath , it's time to let me go : it's time to let it go: it's the year of no return, it's the year of black it's me, ghost your gaping maw, ghost your teeth, ghost enough of this , st unravel me, ghost absorb me, ghost don't let me be, ghost fuck over go:: death and letting be let it t me go, it's time to let me be, it's time to let it flow , it's time to time to le god's breath , it's time to let me go : it's time to murder me, it's year of go: it's the year of no return, it's the year of black death, it's the let it t your gaping maw, ghost your teeth, ghost enough of this , it's time to let it go: it's the year of no return, it's the year of black death, it's the year of god's breath , it's time to let me go : it's time to murder me, it's time to le t me go, it's time to let me be, it's time to let it flow , it's time to let it go:: death and letting be st unravel me, ghost absorb me, ghost don't let me be, ghost fuck over me, ghost your gaping maw, ghost your teeth, ghost enough of this , it's time to let it go: it's the year of no return, it's the year of black death, it's the year of god's breath , it's time to let me go : it's time to murder me, it's time to let me go, it's time to let me be, it's time to let it flow , it's time to let it go:: death and letting be ghost unravel me _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:36:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination In-Reply-To: <6c.c36da0c.286b4536@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I nominate Eileen Myles! -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 6/27/2001 8:55:36 AM, JDHollo@AOL.COM writes: > > << < anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's great "anti-classics" book series. > Nominees? Bob Archambeau>> > > I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. > > Anselm Hollo >> > > I nominate Kenneth Koch (grossly underappreciated). > > William James Austin > > William James Austin.com > Koja Press.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:58:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Comments: To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu In-Reply-To: <3B3A06B8.F27CE557@lfc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Robert, OK, I'll bite. The Anti-laureate, in my mind, would have to be a writer of high accomplishment who is way too "hot" for the culture industry to handle. Someone who remains close to the art, at the expense of "professional" recognition. I have several nominees. Hoards, actually. But to narrow it to two: Rae Armantrout Gustaf Sobin --JGallaher ----------------------------------Previous Message: Okay, folks, I'm taking this Anti-Laureate idea global. In the tradition of the Russian Belyi prize for unrecognized literature, the award will take the form of one bottle of vodka, along with an announcement of the winner in this summer's edition of Samizdat (which features Michael Heller and Belgian Surrealism). Add to that the possible printing of a limited edition chapbook by the winner from Samizdat Editions. Send your nominations to me at archambeau@lfc.edu until July 3, and I'll annouce the winner of the first Anti-Laureate competion to the list on July 4th. All poets are eligible (non-US poets too), except those with Iowa MFAs, Pulitzer Prizes, or strong personal ties to Helen Vendler. Nominees so far are: John M. Bennett Karl Kempton Will Inman Alan Sondheim Ron Silliman Kathy Ernst Richard Kostelanetz Alice Notley and (my nominee) Pierre Joris (who has the added alure of being from Luxembourg, a country grossly underrepresented among U.S. Poets Laureate). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:42:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Comments: To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu In-Reply-To: <3B3A06B8.F27CE557@lfc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" okay, i also wanna nominate john wieners. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:55:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Readings--Summer Vacation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich New York City FREE June 30 NO READING--COME TO THE MERMAID PARADE IN CONEY ISLAND--SEE POETS AS MERMAIDS, SEA HORSES, AND STARFISH ON THE BOARDWALK! July 7 Independence Day Weekend (sort of)--NO READING July 14 Aaron Balkan, Greg Pardlo, Noel Sikorski The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder, Director Patrick Donnelly, Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Jason Schneiderman, Co-Directors Martha Rhodes, Executive Director The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of Hudson. The closest trains are the 1-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. For additional information, contact Michael Broder at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:40:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i nominate our v own alan sondheim. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:25:52 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Comments: To: Robert Archambeau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII New Category: AnteLaureate Nominee: Raul Zurita "Why don't they stop throwing symbols?" --Bob Kaufman Aldon L. Nielsen The George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:01:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: peter culley Subject: Tove Janesson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tove Janesson, Finnish author and illustrator of the Moomin books, died = today at 86. Kiitos, Tove. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:29:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Abel Subject: Re: anti-laureates, readings on readings, and a query; and another query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The anthology (titled, aptly enough, The Poetry Reading: A Contemporary Compendium on Language and Performance) was edited by Steve Vincent and Ellen Zweig, and published by Vincent's Momo's Press in 1981. Several copies can be found online at Advanced Book Exchange (www.abebooks.com), which, as many listees must know, is far and away the best online resource for out of print books. (For transparency, I should reveal that I am one of the five or ten thousand bookdealers who list there.) Can anyone bc with an email address for Charles Borkhuis? Thanks, David Abel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:00:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: 3 cheers for Alice Notley RE: Anti-Laureate Nomination In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll third this nomination. Even though I understand this is foolishness, and agree that a laureateship for Koch would be a hoot. Alice Notley, embodies all things avant-garde poetry endeavors after. The poetry that she has lived with, produced and nurtured is truly an American treasure. I guess that I should just say treasure so as not to insult. I am not sure if she enjoys the US and all it is. So 3 cheers for Alice Notley Hip hip hurray Hip hip hurray Hip hip hurray Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of John Coletti Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:51 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination I second that nomination. -John Coletti -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Anselm Hollo Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:51 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Anti-Laureate Nomination <> I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. Anselm Hollo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:13:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...le pope feu.... the setting up of a shadow govt..or anti pope po laurio...or red cat po...id dooooooomed.... to the same careerism...centrism....elitism...and betterism...as in bigger breasts better...might as well stick with Billie Collins...easy to pronounce remember & forget 'bout it... In other matters..the Ginzie Project is moving along apace...funding has been secured from the Jack Kerouac Disembodied Creative Po Scroll Fund...that ever busy hagiographer Ed Sanders has hired on as the director...Gregory Coso's ghost has promised to return as Perce Shelley's Father's Ghost... After considerable rewriting...Ginzie is in Venice to rework yet again the Dr. Faustus story...in return for ETERNAL WORLDLY FAME...the main character sells a controlling interest in his soul...to Trungpa or THE RIMP...or 'your most serene nothingness' as he is known to his devotees...Unzel Tinzing moves in as the A-Virus... ding dong bell...from the ding dong bell tower....DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:47:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Summi Kaipa Subject: INTERLOPE #6 is out! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hey All, I just want to let you know that INTERLOPE #6, a magazine that aims to publish experimental writing by Asian American writers, is out and about. Past contributors include: Tina Celona, Chris Chen, Jessica Chiu, Linh Dinh, Sesshu Foster, Rafeeq Hasan, Lee Herrick, Mytili Jagannathan, Alvin Lu, Pamela Lu, Warren Liu, Sawako Nakayasu, Kirthi Nath, Sianne Ngai, Amar Ravva, Prageeta Sharma, Brian Kim Stefans, Ida Yoshinag, and Fred Wah. Issue 6 features criticism on AsAm issues . . . stuff by some provacateurs extraordinaires! Miya Masaoka Ben Kim Pamela Lu Eileen Tabios Yuji Oniki Quentin Lee Walter K. Lew Kerri Sakamoto Jean Chen Martin Wong Jeff Chang Issues are $5 per . . . Summi Kaipa Interlope PO Box 423058 San Francisco, CA 94142 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:17:24 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: THE GREAT AMERICAN ANTI-LAUREATE SAGA: AN UPDATE MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yow! My mailbox runneth over with anti-laureate nominees! Remember the rules, though, folks: an august institution such as the U.S. Anti-Laureate Commission will only retain its legitimacy and the respect of the great American public if the competition is run fair-n-square. So: no Pulitzer winners, no Iowa MFAs, and no close friends of Helen Vendler. Barrett Watten tells me that this disqualifies him from consideration (not a scandal yet, since no one has nominated him). But oh no, there's more: B.W. tells me this disqualifies Alice Notley, who was one of the front runners as of this morning (behind only two others, Anselm Hollo and Rosmarie Waldrop). Shock! Horror! The United States Anti-Laureate Commission is rocked by scandal, and Juan Antonio Carlos Ortega Sammawich, High Commissioner of the USALC has resigned, retiring to his private island near Corfu to sulk and tearfully paw over the pages of "The Descent of Alette." But keep those cards and letters (well, those emails, anyway) coming -- the race for Anti-Laureate continues, and at this point it is anyone's game (except for Alice, apparently, who can now feel the anguish of being marginalized by the margins for her one-time affiliation with a pseudohegemonic outfir -- a situation that has my irony meter redlining). Bob Archambeau Arbiter of Taste, Acting High Commissioner of the United States Anti-Laureate Commission, and recent purchaser of a bottle of Ketel One vodka, to be shipped to the winning poet (apologies to Alice Notley, who is really an amazing poet, and who must now join the ranks of those amazing poets who have been denied recognition by the Institutions of Poetic Consecration [alternative version]). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:04:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: GasHeart@AOL.COM Subject: Philly: Theater, Music, Film - Issue #43 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. Philadelphia Fringe Festival Block Party; Silent Auction, Thurs., June 28, 5:30-8:30, Today 2. Tom Tom Club with Echo and the Bunnymen, at TLA July 5th 3. Roxy Music at The Tweeter Center, July 19th, i have excellent tix at cost 4. OVAL, German music from intentionally scratched cd's, at The Rotunda this Friday, June 29th, tomorrow 5. BILLY IDOL AT ELECTRIC FACTORY, AUGUST 3 6. Gina Renzi presents-----A night of fusing the classical with the experiment, the dance instinct with the zone-out desire, at the CEC, Sunday, July 8th 7. CALL FOR PERFORMING ARTISTS; P POWER PERFORMANCE PROJECT, FEMALE SUPERHERO THEMED 8. Actor, Rockets Redglare dead 9. photography darkroom co-op forming? 10. Implosion at 10th and Poplar, Sunday at 8am, will be on channel 6 TV ________________________________________________________ 1. Philadelphia Fringe Festival Block Party; Silent Auction Thurs., June 28, 5:30-8:30, Today Please join us at this event on Vine Street between Third and American Streets to benefit the Philadelphia Fringe Festival, with food and refreshments provided by Marco's. Be among the first to see images from the soon-to-be-published Fringe Festival Postcard Book, featuring photographs by Steve Belkowitz of notable local performing artists. A silent auction of 11"x17" Iris prints of the original postcard photographs will take place at the 222 Gallery (222 Vine Street) during the party; the photographs will remain on display at 222 through July 28. ______________________________________________________________ 2. Tom Tom Club at TLA July 5th, with Echo and the Bunnymen actually Tom Tom Club is opening for Echo and the Bunnymen, but i think it should be the other way around.... I'm definitely going to this, Tom Tom club is known for hits like "Pleasure of Love" and "Man with the Four Way Hips"....Echo and the Bunnymen are known for "Lips Like Sugar, Sugar Kisses", both bands were big in the 80's The Tom Tom Club key members are Tina Weymouth and Chris Frantz of The Talking Heads, she is the bass player and he is the drummer, and they are married. While they were in The Talking Heads, they formed the Tom Tom club as a side project, but actually sold more records than the Talking Heads did, kinda put David Byrne in his place. They all met at RISD, Rhode Island School of Design. -josh ______________________________________________________________ 3. Roxy Music at The Tweeter Center, July 19th, i have excellent tix at cost contact me directly at GasHeart@aol.com if you want excellent tix at cost for this soldout show. defined glamrock in the early seventies, and bryan ferry is one of the best singers on the planet today, a real crooner in the style of the 30's. all the original members are touring after a 20 year hiatus, except for the ephemeral brian eno. this show will be a masterpiece. -josh ______________________________________________________________ 4. OVAL, German music from intentionally scratched cd's, at The Rotunda this Friday, June 29th, tomorrow > independent music > concerts at the venue "The Rotunda" , operated by R5 > Productions / Sean Agnew > . The Rotunda located at 4012 Walnut Street in the University > City Section of > Philadelphia, PA. For more information on The Rotunda > project, please visit > www.r5productions.com > > *THIS* Friday June 29th 7:00PM > OVAL / GLASS CANDY AND THE SHATTERED THEATRE > (Tickets Available Now At Spaceboy Music and On-Line) > > OVAL (thrill jockey recs) > Although Oval are perhaps more well-known for how they make > their music than > for the music they actually make, the German experimental > electronic trio > have provided an intriguing update of some elements of avant-garde > composition in combination with techniques of digital sound > design, resulting > in some of the most original, if somewhat challenging > electronic music of the > contemporary scene. Originally composed of Markus Popp, > Sebastian Oschatz, > and Frank Metzger, Oval gradually became the work of just > Popp, with Metzger > providing most of the visual and design work. The bulk of > Popp's work, > incorporates > elements of what could be described as "prepared compact > disc" - manually > marred and scarified CDs played and sampled for the > resultant, somewhat > randomly patterned rhythmic clicking. Layered together with > subtle, sparse > melodies and quirky electronics, the results are often as > oddly musical as > they are just plain odd! > Although a rung below marginal in their home country > and even more > obscure in the States, Oval's remixes of Chicago post-rock > group Tortoise > brought them in contact with American audiences. > GLASS CANDY AND THE SHATTERED THEATRE (k/vermin scum) > Glass Candy and the Shattered Theatre are the recondite > nucleus of trauma > central. Too severe to be glam, way too art damaged to be > goth, this 45 is > like; I don't know what the other side is: a lesion of a > ballad, a disco > contusion; an epic. > Candy is a band > that is just begging to become a cult legend amongst the art-rock, > post-hardcore kids. Beautiful woman singer, fancy clothes, > make up, and still > a very sincere talent and love of their craft. Combining only > the purest > elements of new wave, no wave, glam, goth, electro disco, and > cabaret with > the highest achievements in rock fashion. ___________________________________________________________ 5. BILLY IDOL AT ELECTRIC FACTORY, AUGUST 3 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: SFX MUSIC PHILADELPHIA Presents BILLY IDOL Coming To ELECTRIC FACTORY Friday, August 3 * 9 p.m. * $25 (Day of show: $28) * 21 and over only ON SALE THIS SATURDAY 6/30/01 AT NOON! _______________________________________________________ 6. Gina Renzi presents-----A night of fusing the classical with the experiment, the dance instinct with the zone-out desire, at the CEC, Sunday, July 8th Please spread the word, list this in your newsletters, attend the show if you live in/near philly (or feel like driving for a rare show), etc etc. Thanks. Sunday, July 8 @CEC, 3500 Lancaster Avenue (right off of Drexel's campus, near U of Penn. too), Philadelphia 19104, 1 block and a half from the Market-Frankford Blue Line 7pm-11pm. $6. All ages. Free snacks. +Home made visuals via slides & random video wackery. -----A night of fusing the classical with the experiment, the dance instinct with the zone-out desire CONVOLUTION (NYC, Barcelona): progeny of Mark Cunningham (key player in New York No Wave scene, was in Mars, Don King (which at points included Arto Lindsay and Pere Ubu's Tony Maimone), Thee Magesty, worked with Thirwell, etc etc.) & Silvia Mestres (Barcelona artist). instruments: deeply distorted guitar, breathy vocals, trumpet, synth. Sounds like: balloon animals mid-contortion, Latin Jazz, rainy island nights locked inside of a haunted house, and the hot & cold soundtrack to an ever-morphing poetry book. Incidentally, Mark & Silvia contributed sounds to a CD book of William Blake's poetry. More info: http://www.arrakis.es/~silmes/convolution.html (some tour info has yet to be updated). If you feel adventurous and can read Basque (i know, those crazy Spaniards): http://www.amanitarecords.com/ertz/convolution.htm convolution(math.): The behavior of a linear, continuous-time, time-invariant system with input signalx(t) and output signal y(t) is described by the convolution integral FURSAXA (Philadelphia): brainchild of Tara Burke (solo and with Grant Acker & Matt Shiley), formerly of Clock Strikes Thirteen, formerly of Ted Casterline and his Perfectly Perfect Pieces of Fruit, formerly of the Siltbreeze band UN. Instruments used when performing live: casio keyboard, farfisa organ, haunting vocals, "bells" made from empty, cut fire extinguishers, and more. The sounds whirling about remind me of a Druid ceremony, lush vocals and rich melody abounding. By the way, Tara's CD is titled _Mandrake_, which further reminds me of spells and grimoires of times past. In a spell book, I once read of the mandrake: "In order to gather this plant without being killed...the soil around the root is loosened, preferably with a silver trowel. Then a stray dog is tied by its leg to the root and enticed by promised meat to pull up the root. As the mandrake is torn from the earth it utters a terrible shriek. If the gatherer does not block his ears or sound a horn, he or she will go insane at the sound." nice thought, eh. more info & pictures: http://www.simpletone.com/pacman/artists/tara_burke/ MURCURY (NJ, Philadelphia): Murcury's most recent appearance was at Tryptic's premiere at Silk City. He rubs drum n bass with jazz' taunts soul with talk radio voices; and spikes hip hop with religious testimonials. His DJ work is brilliant yet lighthearted and goes far beyond the mere jukebox work many DJs use. Additional local act to be announced shortly. This is a Gina event, so contact Gina Renzi: Mistsojorn@aol.com _______________________________________________________________ 7. CALL FOR PERFORMING ARTISTS; P POWER PERFORMANCE PROJECT, FEMALE SUPERHERO THEMED CALL FOR PERFORMING ARTISTS PERFORM IN P POWER PERFORMANCE PROJECT'S FALL 2001 PHILADELPHIA FUNDRAISERS!!! SEEKING PERFORMANCE WORKS WITH THE THEME, CONTENT OR CHARACTERS OF WOMAN/GIRL AS ULTRA-POWERFUL SUPER BEING. CALLING ALL SUPER HEROINES, SUPERGIRLS, SUPER WOMEN AND SUPERHUMAN FEMALES. ELIGIBLE ARTISTS INCLUDE THOSE WORKING IN DANCE, MUSIC, FILM, PERFORMANCE ART, PUPPETRY, THEATER, INTERDISCIPLINARY AND/OR HYBRID FORMS. ARTISTS WITH DIVERSE AND EXPERIMENTAL BACKGROUNDS ARE ENCOURAGED TO APPLY. WE WANT YOU TO PERFORM IN SUPPORT OF OUR INTERNATIONAL LEGION OF CAPES!!! Please respond to the following questions on a separate sheet of paper and submit (along with optional support materials), postmarked no later than August 15, 2001. Forward applications to: J. Dellecave - Complete contact information (Name, address, phone #, email) - When can you perform in October, November & December 2001? - What is the name of your super heroine, super girl or super woman? - What are her super powers? - Title of piece, genre and length (15 minute maximum, less than 10 minutes preferred). - Representation of past accomplishments (i.e. biography, artists statement, intergalactic identification card, resume, ray gun, reviews, etc.) - Optional VHS work sample and description of work sample, include SASE for return of tape. Questions or more information? Contact ppowerperformanceproject@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ 8. Actor, Rockets Redglare dead Actor, Rockets Redglare dead, was in a lot of independent films, character actor, was in several jim jarmusch films,....and he was a character, too. he literally owed thousands of people in new york's east vilage 5 or 10 dollars. see more info, http://eastvillage.about.com/citiestowns/midlanticus/eastvillage/cs/deadcelebr ities/index.htm _____________________________________________________________ 9. photography darkroom co-op forming? and from Joy in west philly...... hey i have a black n white photographer ISO a dark room she lives in west philly... maybe she'd like some sort of co-op type thing or a community dark room or something... i dunno. please get back to me pronto with some ideas! tanx! i'm emailing you because i think you'd know... joytoy13@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________________ 10. Implosion at 10th and Poplar, Sunday at 8am, will be on channel 6 TV this Sunday, July 1st, at 8 am there will be a building implosion....of the Cambridge Housing Projects, located south of Girard, but looks like the center of North Philly, knocking these things down will help the whole area around there. go scope it out before they blow it up, between 9th and 11th sts., from poplar to girard. watch the implosion live, or watch it on TV. it will only take about 20 seconds, tape it if you're not up that early on a Sunday morning. -josh ____________________________________________________________ well that's all for now it's much too hot microsoft split reversed by court and to be filed under "you heard it here first", North Dakota wants to change its name to Dakota, but South Dakota would still be called South Dakota any add/deletes....or event info....email me at GasHeart@aol.com Josh Cohen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:40:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: summer poetry workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi Folks, I'm going to be teaching a grad poetry workshop for San Francisco State's second summer session: CW 0804, ADVANCED POETRY WRITING, 16-JUL-01 - 19-AUG-01 It meets five Monday and Wednesday nights from 6 to 10, with breaks included. It'll be a pretty straightforward, relaxed workshop, and will include readings and presentations from the Norton Anthology of Postmodern Poetry. SF State workshops are normally very difficult to get into, but since it's the summer, enrollment is more open, and I have lots of leeway on who I admit. In other words, you don't have to be enrolled at State to take this class. If anybody's interested, please backchannel me. Information about SF State can be found at http://www.sfsu.edu Best, Dodie