========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:04:48 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: The language of our times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, a couple of times I have typed "the bombing" without thinking because there have been so many bombings resulting in death and injury and then I have changed it to "the attack" I wrote "les evenements" to someone today I wouldn't underestimate the degree to which you do have to find a way to encompass the experience, but the problem is mechanical as well it's a military innovation, or the results of it, you suffered; and the vocabulary hasn't caught up "suicide hijacking and targetted crashing" is too complex L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Silliman" To: Sent: 27 September 2001 21:31 Subject: The language of our times | One of the things that I've been pondering the past two-plus weeks, is the | way in which everybody, regardless of political persuasion, has referred to | the "events of September 11," the "recent incidents," etc. Very much as | though our language has yet to find a word or phrase that can encompass our | experience. | | Ron | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:51:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...bride of Durban... the 57 country Org. of Islamic Conference wants terrorism to exclude the struggle against "foreign occupation, aggression, colonialism, & hegemony aimed at liberation and self-determination"......DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 02:28:29 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth M. Dauber" To: Sent: 28 September 2001 21:02 Subject: Israel | The only thing everybody seems to agree on is that, whatever cause it has | been in leading to the attacks of September 11, the United States' policy | in relation to Israel needs to be changed. It is hard, however, to | understand what, in justice, this means. No, it's very easy... for the rest of what you say, I got an uneasy sense of deja vu.I'm sure I have read all that before. Many times. Many many times | and what Arafat rejected | by launching his second intifada, without so much as a negotiation for a | better deal. Well, that's the word from Israel. Me, I say maybe. I'd also say that the Palestinians could do a lot better than Arafat and what he may or may not do does not alter the injustice of their situation. I mean I don't judge USAmericans by their Presidents and they get some kind of choice while there's no real choice for the Palestinians; and I'd be totally pissed off if you judged me on the basis of Tony Blair We need to be reminded that a Palestinian state alongside of | Israel was what all the Arab nations rejected in '48, & we need to be reminded that the Israeli state had no business being there; it was a cuckoo But Israel is very strong, courtesy in part of USA and to a lesser extent UK As a result, many but not all, I agree, have conceded the existence of Israel, but that's a response to its power not its legitimacy... in addition there now could be no justice if those who have been born since the establishment of the state of israel were just uprooted BUT bringing up the resistance post 1948 is not relevant. of course the arabs resisted. What would you expect them to do? Now there is a desire for a settlement on the basis of the internationally-agreed borders. It doesn't look as though Israel wants to settle... I'd raise the internationally agreed borders and that 200000 squatters the wrong side of it | they controlled all of the West Bank and Gaza, where they preferred keeping | the Palestinians in miserable refugee camps to a genuine Palestinian | homeland, excuse me? They had a genuine homeland. It was full of people who had immigrated from all over the world in defiance of the decision of those who ruled Palestine until 1948 and later on the basis of race The American and Australian first peoples have been blamed for their own misery which had been visited upon them by invading foreigners resulting in another war when Israel rejected Nasser's call to | "push them to the sea"; and it is what Arafat continues to reject, both | overtly and by refusing to reign in the absolutely rejectionist Hizbollah rein in... I doubt he can; but that has nothing to do with the wrongness of the theft of Palestinian land. Nor is it fair to keep quoting only the most extreme statements. A few weeks ago we had a report here with the most awful frightening things being shouted by Israelis about Arabs - but one doesn't assume that represents all their views all the time What Nasser shouted at time of war needs to be read in that context. | and Hamas, who, also overtly, say they want no Jews living anywhere from | the Jordan to the Mediterranean. which is not justifiable; but one can see how they came to that state of mind | It's convenient to blame Israel for the state of Arab and Palestinian | suffering in the Middle East and to romanticize Arafat as a freedom | fighter. those are two quite separate things and it confuses the issue to mix them up But even in relation to their own people, Arafat and the | Palestinian Authority have behaved like a bunch of thugs an crooks, | squirreling away into Swiss bank accounts the millions upon millions of | dollars that have poured into them from the United States, as a result of | the Oslo accords, and from the Arab oil nations, instead of using them to | create a Palestinian economy, and preventing almost any freedom of dissent | with repression and murder. I get that deja vu again. You haven't mentioned Sabra and Shatila... and Southern Lebanon... using "the millions upon millions of dollars that have poured into [Israel] from the United States" | Let the PA's praise as martyrs of suicide blowing up of restaurants and | discotechs stop; let the PA's state media stop demonizing Israelis as they | do in the most conventional anti-Jewish fashion (pictures of Jews with long | noses and all); *state media? yes, I think they should declare a state; and a capital let Arafat start telling his people, in Arabic, that they | must accept an independent Israel as a now and forever fact, whether they | like it or not; "Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. 5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life " One of the most attractive things about US culture is the racial melting pot and I am confused by USAmericans who will both see that as positive in their own country and yet resist the concept in Palestine with such self-destructive passion L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 23:10:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII they're all going inside the result of chaos, and any conceivable order? it's words become cliffs, out of period, does it matter, as did i say that, add the end of your shortened life here, you will regret it to the whatever you do, don't ever come these words begin to crash. time. now looking around, even and the ravagings of ly, driven by the forces of the edge of the page, slowly but history ext flees the margin and oozes inexorab in these dark times against to write, and what does it matter as the tin - everyone can tell - to lose in any caseoesn't show too much my ability ey were covering a wound, hoping i wanted again to write something terrific and embed it in an image of someone in great pain it went on like that, you can only imagine what happened was nothing because i'm that someone with no excuse, nothing has happened to me, nothing ever does because there are holes in too much thinking so i'm trying to organize this properly as an image of alignment losing myself in alignment as the algorithm breaks down inside i'm screaming all the time, i don't know what i'm doing here, whatever it is, i'm not doing it very well so the best thing is to make patterns, sew the words as if they were covering a wound, hoping my emptiness doesn't show too much while i begin - everyone can tell - to lose my ability to write, and what does it matter in any case in these dark times as the text flees the margin and oozes against the edge of the page, slowly but inexorably, driven by the forces of history and the ravagings of time. now looking around, even these words begin to crash. whatever you do, don't ever come here, you will regret it to the end of your shortened life did i say that, add the period, does it matter, as words become cliffs, out of any conceivable order? it's the result of chaos, and inside everything disappears, into bad design and literature they're going now, they're all going g/^/mo0 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 00:21:02 -0600 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Organization: housepress Subject: housepress - AUDITORY EXPERIMENT(S) by Lawrence Upton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit housepress is please to announce the release of a new chapbook: AUDITORY EXPERIMENT(S) By Lawrence Upton an experimentary text for performance by 1 to 4 people. produced in an edition of 40 handbound and numbered copies. $3.00 each. for ordering information contact derek beaulieu at: housepress@home.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 23:41:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marjorie Perloff Subject: Re: Thank you, List! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, when I first saw that Charles had posted news of my birthday, I was mortified! I thought, oh God, now they will all know what an old lady I am. However, everyone's wishes have been so heartwarming that I'm grateful to Charles. Thanks to everybody who wrote! I don't really feel that different but, as Joe (my husband) says, "Getting old means having to sit down to put on your underwear...." Something like that .... Love, Marjorie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 02:18:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: text_TOWER (beta 9.11) Comments: To: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date : Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:11:21 -0500 ////this is one of the php projects I was talking about ////cONSTRUCT & pROPAGATE text_TOWER (beta 9.11) http://www.cla.umn.edu/joglars/text_TOWER/index.php ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:55:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: poets as grief counselors conundrum. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Not sure I have a right to comment on a backchannel forwarded, apparently without persmission, to the list. But a couple of responses anyway: > > 2. would poetry as reframing be changing brand names so people would be > > more likely to buy it(as in changing an anti-depressant into a >medication > > for PMMS - can't recall offhand either the med or diagnosis)? > > Poetry as reframing would be looking, for instance, at the side of an >object > > heretofore believed to have only a front and a back. Maybe rather than > > changing brand names, changing the name of the diagnosis to remove > > stigmatism? Or, even better, redefining "diagnosis" itself... which is a > > tall order... Laura, I think here, in the midst of quick typing, you conflated STIGMA, some sense of which I take you to mean, with ASTIGMATISM, which is a vision disorder. Or did you INTEND this very interesting juxtaposition? (Also, very much liked your "Poetry as reframing would be looking, for instance, at the side of an object heretofore believed to have only a front and a back"-- which is itself a highly poetic insight). > >My >responses > > to the flag (and, I assume, those of others as well) are deeply deeply > > ingrained, going back, among other things, to having to say the pledge >of > > allegiance every morning in grade school and intentionally mumbling >after >a > > certain age. Flag as authority as well as rallying point. I have big > > problems with nationalism in the sense that "proud to be X" always >implies, > > to me, "proud not to be Y or Z." My own responses to the flag are also deeply ingrained, mostly from prepubescent associations. I was a child in the 60s, & remember stray parts of history through the eyes of a child: King's assassination, the growing distrust of LBJ in the wake of the war's escalation, the bombing of Cambodia, Nixon's duplicitousness, the Detroit riots (my grandmother was in a hospital downtown at that precise moment, but fortunately neither she nor the hospital were harmed), etc. I remember "America Love It or Leave It," & the peace symbol as a (non-political?) accessory some kids wore. The flag, for me, will always connote that time in history & the strangely mixed feelings everyone around me increasingly had. As a symbol, for me, it is equivalent to militarism. I realize this reaction is bound to historical circumstance-- & that not all people, even of my generation, will share my reaction, or for that matter my politics. I respect the idea of the flag as a "transitional object" (in the loose way we have been using this term) for others, at least in the context of a crisis like this one-- but I (like you, Laura) can hardly identify with that response. Mark _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 20:27:07 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The language of our times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hence it shows that the Language movement had/ has a great "point" that when and as language breaks down it is an indicator that he state is breaking down, the the people "in that system" (probably everyone on the Earth) are breaking down, or transforming: someone clevere thatn I on these issues suchas Nick Piombino or my friend Scott may be able to elucidate further what I think I'm saying..I find it hard, in converstio, to refer to it "the incidents/s" with appropriate (if there is any apropriate language)...I think this is the beginning of the end of capitalism ,,and so on. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Silliman" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 8:31 AM Subject: The language of our times > One of the things that I've been pondering the past two-plus weeks, is the > way in which everybody, regardless of political persuasion, has referred to > the "events of September 11," the "recent incidents," etc. Very much as > though our language has yet to find a word or phrase that can encompass our > experience. > > Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 06:02:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r..the enemy ...war without borders...w/o conventional battles...w/o victories...w/o peace treaties...w/o time....with AN enemy...DRn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 08:16:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am having the same question. Heard a very cogent statement by the head of Reuters Global news service on NPR (he sounded British) who talked about why they are not using the term "terrorist" -- that it implies a value judgement and doesn't even feel entirely accurate. They use "hijackers." I myself don't feel comfortable with the phrase "terror attacks" and I don't even know why. I keep calling it "September 11" or "the thing of September 11." Sometimes I say "the attacks on NY" but even attacks sounds wrong and then I am forgetting Washington and PA. Arielle --- claank design wrote: > I keep hearing it referred to as 'the accident' to > which I feel compelled to > answer, no it was on purpose. That's the aspect > which seems uncontainable > by language. As in to contain, or gain control > over. > > Andrea Baker > > > From: Ron Silliman > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:31:20 -0400 > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: The language of our times > > > > One of the things that I've been pondering the > past two-plus weeks, is the > > way in which everybody, regardless of political > persuasion, has referred to > > the "events of September 11," the "recent > incidents," etc. Very much as > > though our language has yet to find a word or > phrase that can encompass our > > experience. > > > > Ron __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:12:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Clark D. Lunberry" Subject: Paterson, NJ as "hub for hijackers" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Carlos Williams' Paterson continues its unforeseeable unfoldings, the city showing up in the news as a part of the terror of today. The epic poem that the poet was never able to complete (first four books, then five, then six), the story of that city--the telling of it--that haunted him desperately until his death, abruptly adds a new feature upon itself as what the headline in the New York Times describes as the "hub for hijackers," those that took down the World Trade Center and smashed into the Pentagon. "We have 72 identifiable nationalities here, 170,000 people in eight square miles," said Bob Grant, the mayor's spokesman. "With a lot of different folks moving in and out of the city, unless you raise a ruckus, you could live here for a while without anyone noticing." The photograph accompanying the article in the newspaper shows a three-story brick building at 486 Union Avenue, a building that must have been around when Williams was walking about the city, accumulating impressions and insights for his never-ending poem--the corner market on the ground floor, the hijackers' apartments above, and in faded, large-scale lettering beside the windows, now barely discernible on the wall, a hand-painted advertisement written upon the bricks for a biscuit mix at 75 cents. What would Williams make of his city today, the city that was chosen by the terrorists as a "headquarters," a "staging ground"; the city that was chosen by the poet because it might, he believed, finally be "something knowable." Though near the end of his life, dying, he finally concluded "there can be no end to such a story." So much of Williams' poem depended upon the archives of the city's library as he culled through old newspapers, extracting artifacts of time's insistent dissolve. Today's papers now join that expanding site, further evidence of that unknowable city, that story with no end. "Rigor of beauty is the quest. But how will you find beauty when it is locked in the mind past all remonstrance?" The link to the complete New York Times article is: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/27/international/27HUB.html?searchpv=past7day s Clark Lunberry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 09:45:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Del Ray Cross Subject: SHAMPOO 8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Good People, Shampoo Issue Eight is ready for you, and it's about as bubbly as it gets! You'll find it here: http://www.ShampooPoetry.com And it includes fabulous poems by Tim Yu, Nick Whittock & Aneke McCulloch, Zinovy Vayman, Joseph Torra, Chris Stroffolino, Jack Shadoian, Suzy Saul, Brendan Ryan, Leigh Radtke, Ronald Palmer, Curran Nault, Alex Mendra, Cassie Lewis, Katie Kadue, Crag Hill, Carolyn Gregory, Terrence Fleming, Michael Farrell, Albert Flynn DeSilver, Del Ray Cross, Michael Carr, David Braden, Jim Behrle, and Michael Basinski, along with swell cover art by Jamine Ergas. Don't miss out! Let's get clean, Del Ray Cross, Editor SHAMPOO the bubbliest poetry on the web www.ShampooPoetry.com If you'd like to be removed from this e-list, just let me know. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 09:15:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: The language of our times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i've noticed this as well recently i was in a store and they were talking about "it" and "it" was on the radio "We aren't talking about 'it' are we?" i asked - exhausted with the media coverage and the constant discussions and the inability of people to think outside 2 or 3 responses - myself include there you are - i've called it "it" i'm afraid to use language anymore - it is so easily appropriated by the politicians, the media and business interests - no doubt poems have been written already... an anthology might even come out of this there are times i am almost sickened to be a poet - good bad or indifferent - simply because all i can think to do to respond is "write a poem" - i wish i could say it was therapy, but sometimes i think it is nothing more than shallow manipulation and egoising > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:31:20 -0400 > From: Ron Silliman > Subject: The language of our times > > One of the things that I've been pondering the > past two-plus weeks, is the > way in which everybody, regardless of political > persuasion, has referred to > the "events of September 11," the "recent > incidents," etc. Very much as > though our language has yet to find a word or > phrase that can encompass our > experience. > > Ron ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:49:35 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: one self sin teared question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/28/01 7:16:59 PM, poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu writes: >Indeed I do assert that denouncing another subscriber >by name "represents a greater 'rhetorical violence' >than Selim Abdul Sadiq's post I plan on returning to Syria, in order to take part in the planning of >further attacks on Americans, both here and abroad. Wherever you end up, >don't forget to duck. > >SASq I rest my case on your judgment about which one of these two is worse. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 12:59:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "James W. Cook" Subject: Re: The language of our times Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "as though our language has yet to find a word or phrase that can encompass our experience." Ron, I've been thinking about much the same thing. (I was prompted to do so by a post sent by Kristin Prevallet to the Online Poetry Classroom.) Quickly scanning through recent posts to this list and links provided by listers, I've found these phrases: "the attacks of Sept. 11," "recent . . . events," "this months dramatic events," "the September 11 violence," "September 11 attacks." Each phrase makes reference to time (usually the exact date). It seems that when speaking of the "attacks" "events" "violence" time is the only certainty, the only thing we *know*. It also provides a marker: before 9/11 and after. Most social and political changes take place over time, gradually. The current change in our culture is born of one day, one set of events. When one can mark the date--for USAmericans November 22, December 7, etc.--that date seems an immutable fact, constant despite the sudden change. In the midst of change and as a bulwark (I note my war-diction) against forgetting, the date becomes a trigger for memory, and so one marks the passing of time after that date with one-week, one-month, annual memorials, etc. (I find myself thinking of time this way. How many days since September eleventh? And each time the emotions engulf me, whether I'm in the middle of class, eating, driving, typing...) When speaking with my high school students, I have found myself searching for words to describe the terrorist act [see: the on-going act of war v. criminal act debate], but have spoken with confidence and certainty about time. As this idea has just come to me, I'd very much like others to chime in with more coherent insights into the relationship between dating and naming. all the best, j.c. >From: Ron Silliman >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: The language of our times >Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:31:20 -0400 > >One of the things that I've been pondering the past two-plus weeks, is the >way in which everybody, regardless of political persuasion, has referred to >the "events of September 11," the "recent incidents," etc. Very much as >though our language has yet to find a word or phrase that can encompass our >experience. > >Ron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 13:29:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: poets respond Comments: To: "Ronald W. Weber" , Richard Flynn , protay@eudoramail.com, Kelleher/Taylor , weber Comments: cc: Hugh Walthall , protay , Richard Flynn In-Reply-To: <000501c14871$a0d1e8a0$c97e5b0c@6qhf20b> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This is what my students happened to be scheduled to read this week -- from Brigid Murnaghan's homage to the George Washington Bridge -- written many years before 2001: The fog in Washington Square Park is London fog Where have you gone, Empire State Building? Have they stolen you? Where have you gone, Twin Towers? Who'd steal you? Why have they left me alone? Why have you isolated me? When will the wind come and blow the fog away So I can see my lifelines once again. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:01:25 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: birthday In-Reply-To: <375631.3210696917@ny-chicagost2a-79.buf.adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Happy 30th Birthday Aaron Belz! - Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 18:49:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...lepanto... Cervantes lost the use of one arm....fighting the moslems at Lepanto in 1571..he was later captured in North Africa and held as a slave for ransom for 4 or 5 years... The W.T.C. holy warriors...jihaders...Allah sz "Strike above the neck, and strike at all their extremities"...suicided Islam...and launched the war of 1.001 years.. American farm boys in Nebraska will continue to toss footballs in the long shadows of Autumn Afternoons and dream of getting laid at night on the cold grass...they will not murder the shop keeper in Raffa...the water seller in Tunis...the mule skinner in Aleppo...they will go to the mall and have a coke... Back from Ground Zero...fall mottled dusty Aft...1.000's upon 1,000's of endless milling crowd...who neither forgive nor forget..1,0001 years is a short nite nod in their attention span.. T.V. and Nike...civil wars...and internal hatred...the blazing wall...the falling tower... The old Don goes on a last adventure...he knows to remember and forget....he may take his glasses off...& the sweet fire of life.....DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:57:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert M Corbett Subject: posting to Poetics list (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List, A friend asked me to post this request to the Poetics list. You can reply directly to her if you have any suggestions. thanks, Robert ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:29:56 -0700 From: Diana George To: Robert Corbett Subject: posting to Poetics list Hey, would you post this to the Poetics list? I have to make a class proposal for winter term this week. I am going to teach a writing class called "The Thing in the Text," and I'm looking for suggestions for what to put on the syllabus. The idea for the class came from an essay by Wayne Koestenbaum, called "Darling's Prick Passages." Koestenbaum writes about the end of Genet's _Our Lady of the Flowers_ (where Genet writes about a prisoner who put his penis on a paper and traced its outline, and sent the letter to his girlfriend): this is Koestenbaum: "I don't want to write 'about' the prick, I want to write the prick." So I want to take up things and thingliness in writing (not necessarily pricks). I am not interested in beating unsuspecting students about the head with the "truth" that referentiality is impossible. Which is true enough but a bit boring. I'm more interested in just looking at how some texts grapple with things. The texts I have in mind are Zola's _The Ladies' Paradise_, Ben Marcus' _Age of Wire and String_, maybe some Beckett, a story from Brian Evenson's _Contagion_. I would like to include some poems on the syllabus. I 'd appreciate any suggestions. Diana George (diana_oysterville@hotmail.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:39:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: "Numbed By Talk of War" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill Witherup asked me to forward this poem: NUMBED BY TALK OF WAR Numbed by talk of war I take my dog for his morning walk; Notice the fallen cones Of the fir tree onto the parking lot, Yellow-green shell-bursts of pollen Against the black void. You flag wavers Roll up the Stars and Stripes; Furl your rabid hatred. Look up at, or imagine, The constellations. All life forms Come from star-splash: Muslim, Anglo, Jew, dove, and hawk From supernovas, Cosmic pollen-bursts. Embrace an oak or pine, Or any nearby tree, And let the bark leach out toxins © William Witherup 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 22:46:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Ugh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Maybe it's beating a dead horse, but I have to agree with Marcella, Murat, Mark, Patrick & others about the threatening post. Chris, I can understand your reading of it, but I think you're being a bit generous. It was badly timed and completely inexcusable. Not only did those of us in NYC personally witness thousands of deaths at once--something that will probably haunt us until our own deaths--but many of us have been subjected to numerous bomb threats following it: I've personally had to leave work once after a bomb threat, and get off the subway twice as frantic MTA workers rushed through cars to find a "suspicious package" either reported by another passenger, or called in by someone threatening to bomb or gas a car. I’m obviously "fine" physically; but am finding it difficult right now to get on the subway, as I’m sure many others are. (I know at least two people who refuse to ride them.) In that light, I found your responses, Chris, to Murat, who lives in I think New Jersey, or in any case in the NYC area & as such someone who no doubt has to get on the subway or PATH train (both of which are in danger btw of being suddenly flooded) despite the now more than 200 reported bomb threats specific to the subway system here, to be callous. Especially your second comment about "just walk away from it." Walking away from threats isn’t a luxury we have right now here. (Running away from them might be more accurate, but still ...) Let’s be real: the threatening post came as a threat, totally out of the blue, in no context whatsoever, and while most of us probably assumed it was some lame white grad student prank (my first thought), there was still that moment of terror, which, you know, I personally need like a nail through my left ass cheek. We haven’t had enough threats for the last couple of weeks? Because, basically, that’s what you’re promoting when you forward something like that out to everyone, at least to those of us in NYC--though, I just talked with Sofie Qureshi (a muslim) a couple of days ago; she lives in San Francisco, and she’s looking to buy a gas mask, as are many of her friends. They’re terrified. Whether or not they have cause to be. (I read her the threatening post, by the way: she was nearly speechless. "It just makes me sad," she said.) So, undoubtedly, New Yorkers are hardly the only people freaked out. Or non-muslims. U.S. Muslims and arabs, by the way--something the threatening post failed to address in any way whatsoever--have two fronts of terror at this point: racial/ethnic profiling & idiotic uninformed retaliation (hardly unaddressed on this list, btw, prior to said post--I think Wanda Phipps even sent one about what people in Brooklyn can do to actively help muslims in Brooklyn) *and* another bombing, germ warfare, nerve gas, etc., from religious or whatever whackos. The two Palesitinians & Syrian in the bodega up the street from us have U.S. flags in their window right now--*obviously* because they fear retaliation (is that a case of flag as a kind of "transitional object" or what?) ... though they’re also freaked out about anthrax ... something they don’t have a flag or whatever to hang in their window in the vague hope of staving off. Sorry to be such a windbag about this. I have the poetics list to thank for numerous personal contacts & friendships, for information about countless readings, magazines & book publications I might otherwise have missed, for putting me in contact with (again) countless readers & writers. Not to mention the fact that I "met" the absolute love of my life here. Still, this whole business about the threatening post (I refuse to name the poster, believing it’s a pseudonym), about what strikes me as an obvious lapse in judgment, empathy, and simple human decency, has left such a bad taste in my mouth, I’m ready to unsubscribe. It’s not worth it. Plenty of others have been bumped from this list for mere literary political reasons, for "disruption of discussion" reasons (as though things *ever* ran smoothly on this list). So, someone forges an account & gets on and threatens *most* of us? Who are in no uncertain terms in solidarity w/anti-arab backlash? I really don’t get it, Chris. What "lesson" is being doled out here? Isn't it enough we're getting infantalized from the mainstream *press* every day? We need that from the poetics list, too? As poets, as people, we tolerate too much bullshit & horror every fricken day to have to have it dumped in our laps on this list. Basically, my feeling is, the person who posted the threat ought to own up to it, tell us who s/he is, and make *some* attempt at dialog. My guess is, s/he is incapable of actual dialog. Excuse me. "He" I should say, as I don’t for a second believe the poster was a woman. I’d like to be proven wrong. That, unfortunately, would require honesty. Like, "good luck," or whatever, Gary _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 20:20:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kali Tal Subject: sept 11 information In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" FYI, I have set up a page with links to info on the terrorist attacks of Sept 11 and their aftermath, preparations for war, etc. Please feel free to visit and add links that I am missing. It's set up with a Yahoo-style directory, including subcategories, as well as a search engine. I'm hoping that the site will be of use to college professors and others who are trying to assimilate the recent events. http://www.u.arizona.edu/ic/humanities/september11/pages/ Kali Tal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 23:39:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: periodic notice of sorts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Internet Philosophy and Psychology - Sept 001 Since the WTC tragedy, my work has been dealing with the creation and destruction of language, of the broken teeth of words. It has also dealt with the possibility of distance against its very impossibility, and with exile, the corruption of culture, the corrosion of news and media. In Miami, I am an inaccessible digit, furiously telephoning; what is writ- ten travels through the mutilation and veering of thought. I am ashamed over my own depression, aware that terror decathects meaning - that mean- ing is a luxury. I try to write through this. Below is the usual intro: This is a somewhat periodic notice describing my Internet Text, available on the Net, and sent in the form of texts to various lists. The URL is: http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt/ which is partially mirrored at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html. (The first site includes some graphics, dhtml, The Case of the Real, etc.) The changing nature of the email lists, Cybermind and Wryting, to which the texts are sent individually, hides the full body of the work; readers may not be aware of the continuity among them. The writing may appear fragmented, created piecemeal, splintered from a non-existent whole. On my end, the whole is evident, the texts extended into the lists, partial or transitional objects. So this (periodic) notice is an attempt to recuperate the work as total- ity, restrain its diaphanous existence. Below is an updated introduction. ----- The "Internet Text" currently constitutes around 100 files, or 4500 print- ed pages. It began in 1994, and has continued as an extended meditation on cyberspace, expanding into 'wild theory' and literatures. Almost all of the text is in the form of short- or long-waves. The former are the individual sections, written in a variety of styles, at times referencing other writers/theorists. The sections are interrelated; on occasion emanations are used, avatars of philosophical or psychological import. These also create and problematize narrative substructures within the work as a whole. Such are Susan Graham, Julu, Alan, Jennifer, and Nikuko, in particular. The long-waves are fuzzy thematics bearing on such issues as death, sex, virtual embodiment, the "granularity of the real," physical reality, com- puter languages, and protocols. The waves weave throughout the text; the resulting splits and convergences owe something to phenomenology, program- ming, deconstruction, linguistics, philosophy and prehistory, as well as the domains of online worlds in relation to everyday realities. Overall, I'm concerned with virtual-real subjectivity and its manifesta- tions. I continue working on a cdrom of the last eight years of my work (Archive); I also additional video materials, created with Azure Carter and Foofwa d'Imobilite, on two cdroms, Baal and Parables. I've worked on a series of codeworks and political pieces, as well as Asteroids, a group of videos based on 3d modeling of spatial objects and fly-byes. Finally, I've recently completed two cdrom collections of materials, Miami and Voyage. I have used MUDS, MOOS, talkers, perl, d/html, qbasic, linux, emacs, vi, CuSeeMe, etc., my work tending towards embodied writing, texts which act and engage beyond traditional reading practices. Some of these emerge out of performative language - soft-tech such as computer programs which _do_ things; some emerge out of interferences with these programs, or conversa- tions using internet applications that are activated one way or another. And some of the work stems from collaboration, particularly video, sound, and flash pieces. There is no binarism in the texts, no series of definitive statements. Virtuality is considered beyond the text- and web-scapes prevalent now. The various issues of embodiment that will arrive with full-real VR are already in embryonic existence, permitting the theorizing of present and future sites, "spaces," nodes, and modalities of body/speech/community. It may be difficult to enter the texts for the first time. The Case of the Real is a sustained work and possible introduction. It is also helpful to read the first file, Net1.txt, and/or to look at the latest files (lq, lr) as well. Skip around. The Index works only for the earlier files; you can look up topics and then do a search on the file listed. The texts may be distributed in any medium; please credit me. I would ap- preciate in return any comments you may have. Current cdroms are available for $14; if you've have an earlier version, they go for $10. (Video format is .mov with Sorenson compression or .avi or .avi-jpg). (Costs include shipping.) You can find my collaborative projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and my conference activities at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk - both as a result of my virtual writer-in-residence with the Trace online writing community. See also: Being on Line, Net Subjectivity (anthology), Lusitania, 1997 New Observations Magazine #120 (anthology), Cultures of Cyberspace, 1998 The Case of the Real, Pote and Poets Press, 1998 Jennifer, Nominative Press Collective, 1997 Parables of Izanami, Potes and Poets Press, 2000/1 Alan Sondheim - Miami cellphone (voicemail) 305-610-5620 Miami phone (no voicemail) 305-668-5303 email sondheim@panix.com Home address: 4600 SW 67th Avenue, Apartment 252, Miami, FL, 33155 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 15:53:20 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Because you live in a priviliged capitalist nation you cannpot see that in fact many see the attack as a legitimate strike back against US State terrorism of Palestine, Iraq (which has been bombed with greater loss of lives than the trade towers), Colombia, Pakistan, India, China, Vietnam, the Sudan, the working people of the world, and so on: it is the "blunt edge " if you like of the Class Struugle which contimues in whatever form......he's not the only one who would want to attack Americans: there will be millions especailly if the US continues its aggression. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcella Durand" To: Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 2:12 AM Subject: totally tasteless jokes > Um...in regards to the below, my very best interpretation of Selim's > post was that it was an extremely creepy, broad and tasteless joke, and one > that I, and I would think most people here in NYC who just saw close to > 7,000 people die useless, horrible deaths before their eyes, found pretty > offensive. I mean, he certainly has the right to make "jokes"--you know, > whatever tickles your funny bone--that and setting cats on fire--but to have > obtuse theorizing piled on top of the original "joke" kind of turns my gut. > Personally, the word "windbag" brings a smile to my lips more readily than a > threat to kill more human beings, no matter who's making the joke. > > M > > > > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:44:05 -0400 > > From: Poetics List Administration > > Subject: Re: one self sin teared question > > > > Murat Nemet-Nejat writes: > > > > > The moderator of this list told me that he was very sensitive about "ad > > > hominem" attack (in response to a censored reaction of mine [....] I > > supposed > > > Sasq's post can not be considered "ad hominem" because it is a menacing > > to > > > "everybody." Absolutely disgusting really. > > > > I'm not sure whether that last sentence is intended to take in the post > > by "sasq" - Selim Abdul Sadiq - or my having forwarded to the list. In > > any case, I'd like to make a few comments: > > > > 1. In general, I don't like to address my interactions with subscribers > > here, for the obvious and historically verifiable reason that such > > discussions > > tend to initiate a recursive spiral of endless and recriminatory posts to > > the > > List about the List. The situation is [A.] as dull as any public squabble; > > and [B.] by its tendency to a peculiarly school-boyish acerbity, tends > > also > > to make other subscribers reluctant to engage in the business of the List: > > which is Discussion. Since almost the entirety of my position here is to > > maintain an atmosphere in which people feel that they can have "their say" > > without becoming the subject of personally-directed rhetorical violence - > > hence my use of the phrase 'ad hominem,' unfortunately gendered - These > > consequences are detrimental. The post over which we disagreed, Murat, > > fits very neatly into the category that I have elicited, since it was one > > in which you repeatedly characterized another subscriber as a "windbag" > > and stated that s/he is guaranteed to express the "windbag point of view." > > My response to you was also very simple: the points you express in > > relation > > to the discussion are very welcome, but please express them without the > > personal insult. In light of this response, I can't help remarking that > > the term Censored is a bit inflated. > > > > 2. This morning on "The Connection," I listened to two very well-spoken > > liberal men - the host, and a writer on the airline industry - discuss the > > 'unfortunate inevitability' of racial profiling in matters of national and > > especially airport security: "You can write well-intentioned memos saying > > that it shouldn't happen, but the bottom line is that it will take place." > > This brought to mind the number of times, crossing the border from Canada > > into the United States, that I have seen brown people standing beside > > their > > car as it is minutely searched by the border guards - in proportion to the > > few times - well, once in four years actually - that I have seen white > > people in a similar situation. Apparently, it is easy to sympathize, so > > long as we keep the "bottom line" firmly in place - though, in this case, > > "bottom line" makes a curious bridge between a pervasive financial jargon > > and the less widely-esteemed phrase "mud people." Perhaps in reacting to > > Selim Abdul Sadiq's post, we might credit its author with an awareness of > > the "stereotype of complete ignorance and blind aggression" that is > > generally attributed, in the U.S., to people of middle eastern descent; > > let's go so far even as to impute an intimate awareness. Perhaps, given an > > apparent interest in the nuances of poetry, we might even credit its > > author > > too with the dexterity to momentarily own the disreputable stereotype in > > order - having credited us with the dexterity to read this gesture - to > > point out its terrible absurdity. But of course, this is all conjecture. > > > > Christopher W. Alexander > > poetics list moderator > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 21:18:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Re: The language of 'this' our times In-Reply-To: <004901c14793$622d8700$3353fea9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes. If I have to refer to "the events", I rely most often on "after what happened", a phrase that has ceased to function well as time has passed and so have other less international but still personally defining 'what happened's; more importantly though, I've never been certain to what I am referring with "what happened". It seems many 'what happened's had been happening, just not personally negatively impacting most Am-err "I can!"s. To rely on the date Sept 11, 2001, or even descriptive reference such as "after the two planes flew into the World Trade Center, and one flew into the us pentagon, and one 'crashed' in Pennsylvania and around 6,000 people died", defines everything through those events and deaths, and implies only our shock and fear, rather than the complex political situation from which 'this' (what happened) arose. It is as if there was no problem until 'this' happened. Is our shock and confusion a self-centered and one directional way of imagining our place in the world that contributed to why 'this' happened? A fear of participating in erasure, a desire to include all of "what happened" in my reference, makes for silence. Because I do not have any sort of exhaustive knowledge of the political situation, I do not know to what I am referring when I refer to "what happened"; indeed, a common enough experience in any attempt to say of any experience "what happened", but the consequences of this conception makes a sense of accuracy much more pressing in this case. .silliman@GTE.NET> wrote: > One of the things that I've been pondering the past > two-plus weeks, is the > way in which everybody, regardless of political > persuasion, has referred to > the "events of September 11," the "recent > incidents," etc. Very much as > though our language has yet to find a word or phrase > that can encompass our > experience. > > Ron __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:24:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: endings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" rom: "Mark DuCharme" To: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 12:30 PM Subject: Re: A well reasoned piece by Steve Niva > right to caution us against them. I think that poetry, & art in general, > can serve a unique purpose right now in that its very modus is one which, at > its best, undermines received ideas, unquestioning assent & piety. I think > that everyone on this list should write a poem today. Better yet, write > two, & pass on the impulse to post some further insight on the uses of the > U.S. flag. You'll feel better, I guarantee, because you'll actually be > doing something that could begin to have an impact. > > Love, > > Mark DuCharme I tried this,but I'm having problems with the endings. I tried "not with a whimper but a bang" but that didn't work. Then I tried "and they all went down to the seashore" but that didn't sound quite right either. Then "and they all lived happily ever after" occurred to me and somehow the poem still didn't fit. I guess I'm just a bad New York poet because I don't feel better, and I don't feel any impact. The above post did help me with one thing,though. I passed on the impulse to post some further insight... Nick Piombino http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/piombino/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 10:03:06 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Ambridge Fundamentalists Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, ImitaPo , Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apparently unconfirmed newspaper reports over here suggest that members of the Taliban are keen followers of BBC Radio's bucolic soap 'The Archers', the longest running broadcast programme in the world. Those of who you who know the series (being broadcast as I write) will appreciate the sublime incongruity of the rural small talk and never-never village idyll (it takes place 'in between' the borders of Warwickshire and Worcestershire) and the mullahs from the dessicated hills. Something it seems somewhere still retains a glint of humour. David Bircumshaw Leicester, England A Chide's Alphabet www.chidesplay.8m.com Painting Without Numbers www.paintstuff.20m.com/default.htm http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/default.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 04:23:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: overland - new world borders Comments: To: espresso MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "overland" magazine #164 out now. special feature on refugees- "new world borders". further info at- http://dingo.vu.edu.au/~arts/cals/overland/164.html Sydney Launch Saturday 20th October 1pm Spring Writers' Festival NSW Writers' Centre, Rozelle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:38:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: KOJA PRESS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This Fall, KOJA PRESS is proud to participate in SMALL PRESS NIGHTS at SIBERIA bar in New York City. Wednesday, Oct. 3rd Editors/poets Mikhail Magazinnik & Igor Satanovsky present issue #3 of Koja magazine. Wednesday, Nov. 7th KOJA PRESS presents its 2001 poetry books releases: William James Austin's 5 UNDERWORLD 6 Igor Satanovsky's AMERICAN POETRY (FREE AND HOW) Readings are also free and start at 8pm. SIBERIA (bar), Manhattan 356 1/2 W. 40th St., right off 9th Ave. HOW: Take the ACE to 42nd, exit subway at 40th St., walk west, stay on left side, opposite the PortAuthority Terminal. As you approach the corner of 9th Ave, keep an eye out for the mysterious black doors on your left. open and DESCEND into the basement. KOJA PRESS is a small indepedent literary press dedicated to exploration of Russian/American Avant-Garde crossroads. More than ever, NYC is a place to be! Igor Satanovsky, http://kojapress.com http://go.to/rushins ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 16:24:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Gellu Naum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [rec'd this email about the passing of Gellu Naum, but can find almost nothing in english about him on the net. clues would be most welcome. maybe something could be organized to put up at the EPC? --mIEKAL] Gellu Naum wurde 1915 in Bukarest geboren. Studium der Philosophie in Bukarest und Paris. 1938/39 in Paris hatte er Kontakte zu den Surrealisten, vor allem zu André Breton und dem Maler Victor Brauner. Nach der Rückkehr Gründung einer Sektion der Surrealisten in Bukarest, dann 1947 Verbot aller surrealistischen Aktivitäten. 1968 darf Athanor gedruckt werden - eine Auswahl aus den vor und nach dem Verbot entstandenen Gedichten. Gellu Naum lebt in Bukarest und Comana. Auf deutsch liegen seine Gedichte in Übertragungen von Paul Celan, Anemone Latzina, Georg Aescht und Oskar Pastior vor. bad translation from search engine: Gellu Naum was born 1915 in Bucharest. Study of philosophy in Bucharest and Paris. 1938/39 in Paris it had contacts to the Surrealisten, particularly to André Breton and the painter Victor of brown ones. After the return establishment of a section of the Surrealisten to Bucharest, then 1947 prohibition of all surrealistischen activities. 1968 may be printed Athanor - a selection from before and after the prohibition poems developed. Gellu Naum lives in Bucharest and Comana. On German are present his poems in transfers of Paul Celan, Anemone Latzina, George Aescht and Oskar Pastior. MOMENTS IN THE ROMANIAN LITERARY AVANT-GARDE http://www.ici.ro/romania/culture/l_lit2.html Vlad4text@cs.com wrote: Dear friends, The great Romanian surrealist poet Gellu Naum died on September 29. He was 86. Sasha Y O U R C O N S T R U C T I O N S A R E M O S T W E L C O M E: text_TOWER (beta 9.11) http://www.cla.umn.edu/joglars/text_TOWER/index.php ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 12:01:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "by way of --- <>" Subject: Ben Yarmolinksy's new CD -- "In Lieu of Flowers" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "IN LIEU OF FLOWERS", a new CD of 32 occasional songs is now available from Ben Yar Productions. This 80-minute compilation of songs for voice and guitar includes songs written for birthdays, weddings, funerals and anniversaries. Among the topics touched on are: middle age, Princess Di, cancer, the World Bank, exercise, stepfathers, spelling, depression, Perseus & Medusa, mortality, safety and the winter solstice. CDs may be purchased for $20, including shipping. Send a check or money order made out to "BenYar Productions" to: 300 West 108th St., #14-A, New York, NY 10025. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 19:57:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuEditor Subject: U B U W E B / E P C :: M P 3__A R C H I V E MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii UbuWeb Visual, Concrete + Sound Poetry http://www.ubu.com and The Electronic Poetry Center http://epc.buffalo.edu are pleased to announce the launch of U B U W E B / E P C :: M P 3__A R C H I V E http://www.ubu.com/mp3 UbuWeb Visual, Concrete, + Sound Poetry and The Electronic Poetry Center at SUNY Buffalo are pleased to announce the launch of the Internet's largest MP3 archive of Sound Poetry and related audio materials. The files are currently for download only but multiple bandwidth streaming will be available in the near future. The following MP3 files are available for your use: Vito Acconci 1. Ten Packed Minutes (1977) (12:33) Pierre Albert-Birot 1. Poemes a crier et a danser / Chant 1 / L' Avion / Chant III (1916-19), 1:05 2. Poemes a deux voix / Metro / Balalaika (1916-19) 3. Poemes Promethee / Crayon bleu (1918) Altagor, France 1. from "Discours Absolu" (1947-60), 1947-60 Charles Amirkhanian, USA Mental Radio 1. Church Car, Version 2 (1980-81) (2:55) 2. Dot Bunch (1981) 3. Dog of Stravinsky (1982) (3:21) 4. Hypothetical Moments (1981) (5:31) 5. Maroa (1981) (5:10) 6. The Putts (1981) (5:18) 7. Dreams Freud Dreamed (1970) (5:10) 8. Andas (1982) (6:45) 9. History of Collage (1981) (4:48) 10. Dzarim Bess Ga Khorim (1972) (5:10) Antonin Artaud, France 1. from "Pour en finir avec le jugement de Dieu" (1947), 24:05 Hugo Ball 1. Karawane / Wolken / Katzen und pfauen / Totenklage / Gadji beri bimba / Seepferdchen und Flugfische (1916), 7:40 Giacomo Balla 1. L'Annoiata (c. 1920), 2:45 2. Canzone di Maggio (1914), :41 3. Discussione dul futurismo di due critici sudanesi (1914), 1:18 4. Funerale a piazza Termini (1918), :33 5. Macchina Tipografica (1914), :23 6. Paesaggio + Temporale (1914), :50 7. Il Pigro (c. 1920), 2:45 Samuel Beckett 1. Cascando (1963) (17:20) 2. Words and Music (1962) (23:40) 3. Krapp's Last Tape, Part I 4. Krapp's Last Tape, Part II Eric Belgum 1. Bad Marriage Mantra (1998) (60:00) Charles Bernstein | Class 1. Piffle (Breathing) (1976) (7:00) 2. 1-100 (1969) (3:00) 3. My/My/My (1976) (5:00) 4. Class (1976) (10:30) 5. Goodnight (1976) (1:00) Jaap Blonk (Reverof Zrem) 1. Ursonate (1998) (35:00) Christian Bok, Canada 1. Seahorses and Flying Fish (3:10) 2. And Sometimes (:32) 3. Valuveula (1:16) 4. from "Motorized Razors" (2:24) 5. Ubu Hubbub (:46) 6. Ursonate (18:36) William S. Burroughs, USA 1. from Naked Lunch (1977) 2. from "The Wild Boys" (1974) 3. What Washington, What Orders (1974) 4. Keynote Commentary / Roosevelt After Inauguration (1978) 5. Benway (1978) 6. from The Gay Gun: This is Kim Carson / Just Like The Collapse of any Currency / The Whole Tamale (1978) 7. What the Nova Convention is About (1978) 8. Conversations | William Burroughs, Brion Gysin, Timothy Leary, Les Levine, and Robert Anton Wilson (1978) 9. When Did I Stop Wanting to be President (1975) John Cage, USA 1. Mushroom Haiku, excerpt from Silence (1972/69) 2. excerpt from Silence (1969) 3. Writing for the Second Time Through Finnegans Wake (1978) 4. Song, Derived from the Journal of Henry David Thoreau (1976) 5. Mureau (1975) Francesco Cangiullo 1. Il sifone d'oro, 3:53 (1913) Velemir Chlebnikov 1. Bobeobi (c. 1908), :53 2. Esorcismo col riso (1908), :35 3. from "Zangezi": Il Linguaggio degli dei (1922), 1:50 4. from "Zangezi": Il Linguaggio delle stelle (1922), 3:46 Henri Chopin, France 1. La civilisation du papier (1975), 7:07 2. Extreme Tension (1974), 4:30 3. Henri Chopin | Definition des Lettres Suivantes (1975), 5:335 Il concento prosodico, Italy Sergio Cena, Arrigo Lora-Totino, Roberto Musto, Laura Santiano Sinfonia in 4 materie (1976) 1. Vocali (1:40) 2. Vetro ben temperato (3:40) 3. Fricative (2:55) 4. Xilofonia (3:55) 5. Tenzone tropicale (3:10) 6. Siderodiafonia (6:00) 7. Vocali (1:17) Bob Cobbing, U.K. 1. 15 Shakespeare-Kaku (1975), 8:55 2. Bob Cobbing | Portrait of Robin Crozier (1976), 4:55 Carlfriedrich Claus 1. Laugtgedichten (1965), 4:12 Francis E. Dec 1. Rant 1 2. Rant 2 3. Rant 3 4. Rant 4 5. Rant 5 Fortunado Depero, Italy 1. SiiO VLUMMIA - torrente (1916), 1:12 2. Tramvai (1916), 3:08 3. Verbalizzazione astratta di signora (1916), 2:45 Francois Dufrene, France 1. Un retour a mes sources (1971), 10:25 2. La Valse (1958), 3:45 Nikolaus Einhorn 1. Don't you may be, the essential interview (1975), 5:02 Farfa 1. Affaraffari (1947), 3:49 2. Sincopatie / Innanzi al' / Le Rondini / Apersi / Il Mattino / Luna Erotomane (1933), 1:15 3. Tuberie (1937), 2:32 4. Veni Vidi Viti (1937), 2:44 Fylkingen Text-Sound Festivals | 10 Years, Sweden 1. Lars-Gunnar Bodin | Nastan / Plus (1977), 1:10 2. Sten Hanson | Au 197,0 (1976), 5:40 3. Ake Hodell | The Voyage to Labrador (1977), 4:15 4. Bengt Emil Johnson | Behind Alpha (1977), 4:15 5. Ilmar Laaban | Des dal les et de des (1977), 2:35 6. Charles Amirkhanian | Dzarim Bess Ga Khorim (1972), 5:10 7. Henri Chopin | Definition des Lettres Suivantes (1975), 5:35 8. Bob Cobbing | Portrait of Robin Crozier (1976), 4:55 9. Bernard Heidsieck | Sisyphe (1977), 4:05 10. Arrigo Lora-Totino | Chiacchere (1976), 4:55 John Giorno 1. Grasping at Emptiness (1978) 2. Vajra Kisses (1972) 3. Suicide Sutra (1973) 4. Eating The Sky (1978) 5. Excerpt from Shit, Piss, Blood, Pus + Brains (1976) 6. Excerpt from Subduing Demons in America (1975) Giorno Poetry Systems | Big Ego 1. Patti Smith | The Histories of the Universe (1975) 2. Philip Glass | A Secret Solo (1977) 3. John Giorno | Grasping at Emptiness (1978) 4. Laurie Anderson | Three Expediences (1978) 5. Robert Wilson + Christopher Knowles | A Letter to Queen Victoria (1975) 6. Meredith Monk | Biography (1972) 7. Michael Lally | All of the Above (1978) 8. Robert Lowell | Ulysses & Circe (1977) 9. Larrry Wendt | How to Cook a Duck (1976) 10. Jackie Curtis | Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas (1976) 11. Ed Sanders | A Monologue (1968) 12. William S. Burroughs | from Naked Lunch (1977) 13. Harris Schiff | 15 Years Passes / Dollar Bill (1977) 14. Otis Brown | Boneless Chicken (1977) 15. Joel Oppenheimer | Cities, This City (1976) 16. The Fugs | Saran Wrap (1965) 17. Claes Oldenburg | June Was / Panodramdra (1976) 18. Denise Levertov | Woman Alone (1977) 19. Ted Greenwald | Friends (1977) 20. Anthony J. Gnazzo | Hisnia & Hernia (1975) 21. Steve & Gloria Troop | Snow White (1977) 22. Jim Brodey | Homeward Bound (1976) 23. Robert Ashley | Interiors with Flash (1976) 24. Eileen Miles | Tuesday Brightness (1977) 25. Helen Adams | Apartment on Twin Peaks (1977) 26. Anne Waldman | Light & Shadow (1975) 27. Joe Johnson | Fly Ho (1977) 28. Lorenzo Thomas | Wonders (1977) 29. Ishmael Reed | Sky Diving (1977) 30. Kenward Elmslie | The Woolworth Song (1978) 31. Mona da Vinci | The Sacred Art of Wood (1974) 32. Bernard Heidsieck | Canal Street No. 19 (1976) 33. Steve Hamilton | Promise (1976) 34. Frank O'Hara | Poem / Poem (1963) 35. Ron Padgett | No Title (1978) Giorno Poetry Systems | Biting off the Tongue of a Corpse 1. Gary Snyder | from "Turtle Island" (1975) 2. John Giorno | Excerpt from Subduing Demons in America (1975) 3. William S. Burroughs | from "The Wild Boys" (1974) 4. Charles Olson | Maximus of Gloucester (1967) 5. Ted Berrigan | Excerpts from Memorial Day (1974) 6. Ed Sanders | The Struggle (1975) 7. Edwin Denby | The Shoulder, etc. (1975) 8. Helen Adam | Cheerless Junkie Song (1975) 9. Diane DiPrima | Ave (1974) 10. John Wieners | In Public (1968) 11. Robert Duncan | To Speak My Mind... (1974) 12. John Cage | Mureau (1975) 13. Denise Levertov | Life at War (1966) 14. Frank O'Hara | Having a Coke with You (1966) 15. Kenneth Koch | Spring (1966) 16. John Ashbery | A Blessing in Disguise (1966) 17. Charles Stein | Seed Poem (1975) Giorno Poetry Systems | Dial-A-Poem Poets 1. Allen Ginsberg | Vajra Mantra (1972) 2. Diana De Prima | Revolutionary Letters Nos. 7, 13, 16, 49 (1969) 3. William S. Burroughs | excerpts from The Wild Boys (1971) 4. Anne Waldman | Pressure, Holy City (1972) 5. John Giorno | Vajra Kisses (1972) 6. Emmett Williams | Duet (1968) 7. Ed Sanders | Cemetery Hill (1965) 8. Taylor Mead | Motorcycles (1969) 9. Allen Ginsberg | Green Automobile 1953 (1971) 10. Robert Creeley | The Messenger for Allen Ginsberg, I Know a Man (1971) 11. Harris Schiff | Poems (1972) 12. Lenore Kandel | Kali (1965) 13. Aram Saroyan | Not a Cricket (1969) 14. Philip Whalen | from Scenes of Life at the Capital (1971) 15. Ted Berrigan | from The Sonnets (1965) 16. Frank O'Hara | Ode to Joy, To Hell With It (1963) 17. Joe Brainard | from I Remember (1970) 18. Clark Coolidge | Small Inventions: Suite V (plurals) secanate, Suite IV (1969) 19. Jim Carroll | from The Basketball Diaries (1969) 20. John Cage | Mushroom Haiku, excerpt from Silence (1972/69) 21. Bernadette Mayer | These Stories About After the Revolution (1970) 22. Michael Brownstein | Geography (1970) 23. Brion Gysin | I Am That I Am (1958) 24. John Sinclair | The Destruction of America (1965) 25. Anne Waldman | How the Sestina (Yawn) Works (1977) 26. Heathcote Williams | I Will Not Pay Taxes Until (1969) 27. David Henderson | The Louisiana Weekly No. 1, Ruckus Poem Part 1 (1968) 28. Bobby Seale | excerpt from Fillmore East speech (1968) 29. Kathleen Cleaver | excerpt from Fillmore East speech (1968) 30. Allen Ginsberg | Blake Song: Merrily We Welcome in the Year (1971) Giorno Poetry Systems | Disconnected 1. Allen Ginsberg | I'm a Victim of Telephones (1968) 2. Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche | Cynical Letter, A Letter to Marpa, Sound Cycle (Aham) (1974) 3. John Giorno | Suicide Sutra (1973) 4. William S. Burroughs | What Washington, What Orders (1974) 5. Charles Plymell | 100 Flies on an Airplane Flying Around the World (1974) 6. Michael Brownstein | Monologue from the Top (1974) 7. John Cage | excerpt from Silence (1969) 8. Anne Waldman | Fast Speaking Woman (1973) 9. Diane DiPrima | excerpt from Loba (1973) 10. Bernadette Mayer | excerpt from Studying Hunger (1973) 11. Robert Creeley | The Name (1973) 12. Diane Wakoski | High Heel Jesus (1970) 13. Lorenzo Thomas | High Heel Jesus (1973) 14. Gregory Coroso | Marriage (1973) 15. Maureen Owen | Body Rush (1974) 16. Ed Sanders | Stand by My Side Oh Lord (1973) 17. Charles Olson | The Ridge (1967) 18. Allen Ginsberg | Jimmy Berman (1971) 19. Joe Brainard | excerpt from More I Remember More (1974) 20. John Wieners | excerpt from Memories in a Small Apartment (1974) 21. Gerard Malanga | A Last Poem (Tentative Title) (1969) 22. John Perreault | Nude Death (1973) 23. Jack Spicer: excerpt from Billy the Kid (1965) 24. Jim Carroll: from The Basketball Diaries, Age 13, Spring 1965 (1973) 25. Peter Orlovsky: All Around the Garden (1974) 26. Imamu Amiri Baraka | Our Nation Is Like Ourselves (1970) 27. Michael McClure | Lion Poem (1974) 28. Ed Dorn | Recollections of Grande Apacharia (1973) 29. Frank Lima: The Hunter (1974) 30. Frank O'Hara | Adieu Norman, Bonjour to Joan and Jean Paul from Lunch Poems (1964) 31. Bill Berkson | Stanky (1968) 32. Larry Fagin | A Play (1969) 33. Tom Clark | Little Aria (1972) 34. Paul Blackburn | The Once-Over from Brooklyn Manhattan Transit (1963) 35. Philip Whelan: If You're So Smart Why Aren't You Rich (1965) 36. Ron Padgett: June 17, 1942 (1974) 37. John Ashbery: The Tennis Court Oath (1969) 38. Clark Coolidge: excerpt from Dews (1969) 39. Charles Amirkhanian | RADII (1972) Giorno Poetry Systems | The Nova Convention 1. Terry Southern | Vignette of Idealistic Life in South Texas (1:25) 2. William S. Burroughs | Keynote Commentary & Roosevelt After Inauguration (5:52) 3. John Giorno | Eating The Sky (13:30) 4. Patti Smith | Poem for Jim Morrison & Bumblebee (11:45) 5. William S. Burroughs | Benway (3:40) 6. Philip Glass | Building (excerpt from Einstein on the Beach) (3:04) 7. Brion Gysin | Kick That Habit, Junk Is No Good Baby, Somebody Special, & Blue Baboon (7:06) 8. Frank Zappa | The Talking Asshole (5:25) 9. William S. Burroughs | from The Gay Gun: This is Kim Carson / Just Like The Collapse of any Currency / The Whole Tamale (13:27) 10. William S. Burroughs | What the Nova Convention is About (2:35) 11. Ed Sanders | Hymn to Aphrodite form Sappho (8:50) 12. John Cage | Writing for the Second Time Through Finnegans Wake (14:15) 13. Anne Waldman | Plutonium Ode & Skin Meat Bones (6:35) 14. Laurie Anderson + Julia Heyward | Song from America On The Move (12:50) 15. Allen Ginsberg + Peter Orlovsky | Punk Rock & Old Pond (13:00) 16. Conversations | William Burroughs, Brion Gysin, Timothy Leary, Les Levine, and Robert Anton Wilson (7:10) Giorno Poetry Systems | Totally Corrupt 1. Charles Bukowski | Cloud Nine / I Live in a Neighborhood of Murderers / Two Horse Collars, 1974 2. Ed Dorn | from Gunslinger, Book 4, 1975 3. William S. Burroughs | When Did I Stop Wanting to be President, 1975 4. Sylvia Plath | Daddy, 1962 5. John Giorno | excerpt from Shit, Piss, Blood, Pus + Brains, 1976 6. Michael McClure | from Jaguar Sky: There's Cruelty in Every Jewel, 1975 7. Michael Brownstein | Jet Set Melodrama, 1975 8. Jackie Curtis | You Are My Lucky Star, 1976 9. Ed Sanders | This is the Age of Investigation Poetry and Every Citizen Must Investigate, 1976 10. Charles Bukowski | Christ, You'll Never Know / The Closing of the Topless Ande Bottomless Bars, 1974 11. Anne Waldman | Some Small Fires, 1975 12. Imamu Amiri Baraka | from Hard Facts: Rockefeller's Your Vice-President and Your Mama Don't Wear No Draws, A New Reality is Better than a Movie, 1975 13. Erica Huggins | For a Woman, 1972 14. Ken Kesey | A Brief Disclosure, 1975 15. Jackson Mac Low | Guru, Guru, Gate, 1976 16. Charles Amirkhanian | Mushrooms (for John Cage), 1974 17. William Carlos Williams | The Yellow Flower from Pictures from Brueghel and Other Poems, 1954 18. Allen Ginsberg | Please Master, 1975 19. Imamu Amiri Baraka | from Hard Facts: New York is Everywhere Big, 1975 20. Frank O'Hara | To the Film Industry in Crisis, 1959 21. Taylor Mead | I Was in a Drugstore, 1976 22. Jackie Curtis | The All-American Vampire or How the Bee Sucks, 1975 23. Jack Spicer | from The Holy Grail : The Book of the Death of Arthur, 1965 24. John Cage | Song, Derived from the Journal of Henry David Thoreau, 1976 25. Tom Weatherly | Mud Water Shango, Blues for Frank Swooton, 1965 26. Joanne Kyger | In All This Everyday, 1976 27. Charles Olson | Letter 27: Maximus to Gloucester, 1967 28. W.S. Merwin | Fear, 1975 29. Marueen Owen | When You're Down and Under, 1975 30. Jerome Rothenberg | The Opening of the Horse Song, Number Eleven, A Total Translation from the Navajo, 1970 31. Ted Berrigan | Today in Ann Arbor, 1975 32. Susan Howe | There is No Good on Earth and Sin is But a Name, 1976 33. Rochelle Owens | excerpt from The Joe Chronicles, Part 2, 1976 34. Bill Knott | Corpse and Beans, 1974 35. Tony Towle | New York Letters, 1976 36. Bernard Heidsieck | Stratimelo, 1966 37. Peter Orlovsky | Compost Piles, 1975 Brion Gysin, UK / US 1. Pistol Poem (1960), 3:40 2. No, poets don't own words (1962), :58 3. Junk is no good baby (1962), 2:03 Raoul Hausmann 1. Phonemes (1956-57), 15:18 2. R.L.Q.S. varie en 3 cascades (1947), 23:28 3. Soundrel (1919), 4:16 4. Conversation imagee avec les lettristes (1947), 7:10 Bernard Heidsieck, France 1. Vaduz, Passepartout no. 22 (1974), 12:00 2. Sisyphe (1977), 4:05 3. Canal Street No. 19 (1976) Isidore Isou, France 1. Rituel somptueux pour la Seclection des Especes (1965), 2:12 The Kipper Kids, USA 1. Sheik of Araby (1980) Vasilij Kamenskij, USSR 1. L'Usignolo (1916) Aleksej Krucenych, USSR 1. dyr bul scyl (1912), :12 2. Kr dei macelli (1920), 1:35 3. Zanzera, veleno (1922), 2:50 Maurice Lemaitre, France 1. La Marche des Barbares Blancs (1965), 3:05 Arrigo Lora-Totino, Italy 1. L'esperienza (1965) 2. Clessidrogramma (1970) 3. Lo stato sono io (1974) 4. Intonazione cromatica (1974) 5. Arrigo Lora-Totino | Chiacchere (1976) Vladimir Maiakovski, USSR 1. Ordinanza all'esercito dell'arte (1918), 1:54 2. Rumori, rumorini e rumoracci (1913), 1:03 3. Di strada in strada (1913), 1:04 F.T. Marinetti, Italy 1. Battaglia, Peso + Odore, 8:53 (1912) 2. Dune, 6:05 (1914) Paul McCarthy, USA 1. Boston Bay (1980) Franz Mon 1. Da du der bist (1973), 13:00 Christian Morgenstern 1. Das Grosse Lalua (1890) / Das Gebet (1905) / Der Rabe Ralf (1905) / Igel und Agel (1905) / Fisches nachtgesang (1905), 4:53 Maurizio Nannucci, Italy 1. Definizioni (1976), 4;04 bpNichol Sound Poems 1966-1980 1. Dada Lama, 2:12 (1966) 2. Pome Poem, 2:34 (1972) 3. 060173, 1:06 (1973) 4. Eight Part Suite, 2:11 (1972) 5. Cosmic Piece for Orchestra & Chorus, 1:58 (1969) 6. Art in Upheval, 5:36 (begun 1979) 7. Generations Generated, 9:32 (1977) 8. Afternoon Attentions,1:44 (1973) 9. "meeln", :23 (1973) 10. Acres Rare Meet, 7:01 (1977) 11. Ballads of the Restless Are, 8:49 (1967) 12. White Text Sure: Version 1, 5:29 (1978) 13. Outsize Reference (1973) 14. Translating Translating Apollinaire 52, 3:50 (1978) 15. The Alphabet Game, 5:23 (1972) 16. Interuppted Nap, 1:55 (1976-80) 17. Appendix (split 7" single) Ladislav Nov·k 1. Ceterum auterm (1970), 2:10 2. La structure phonetique de la langue tcheque (1970), 2:40 Arthur Petronio 1. Cosmosmose (1965), 14:30 Bern Porter 1. The Last Acts of St. Fuck You (1985), 9:37 Jim Roche Learning to Count 1. Hippys Are Living Proof, 1971 (3:31) 2. Every Man, Woman, And Child, 1972 (7:53) 3. Fight It Out, 1972 (11:46) 4. Bubble Blower, 1972 (5:08) 5. Straight Razor, 1972 (9:14) 6. Mama Bear, 1972 (8:50) 7. Power Poles, 1973 (3:31) 8. Swoops Down Outta The Sky, 1975 (12:33) 9. Cadillac, 1973 (5:52) 10. Store Up Your Treasures in Heaven, 1974 (7:29) 11. Whatcha Doing Down There Boy, 1975 (7:32) 12. Whatsda Matter Wid Jew, 1977 (5:33) 13. Lucky T's Texaco, 1975 (6:17) Jerome Rothenberg, US That Dada Strain 1. Karawane (1:48) 2. A Glass Tube Ecsatcy (2:27) 3. London Onion (1:44) 4. The Holy Words of Tristan Tzara (9:11) 5. Y-V (After Tristan Tzara) (2:01) The Horse Songs of Frank Mitchell 1. Side A (27:00) 2. Side B (15:00) Poland 1931 1. The Wedding (3:45) 2. The King of the Jews (1:18) 3. The Beadle's Testimony (1:49) 4. The Rabbi's Testimony (1:51) 5. The 7 Melodies of Esther K. (4:04) 6. Esther K. Comes to America (4:43) Gerhard Ruhm, Germany 1. Gebet (1954), :40 2. Hymne an lesbierinnen (1956), 2:08 3. Blatter (1965-73), :20 4. Beruhrung (1965-73), :10 5. Verkutze zeitspanne mit melodischen extrakt (1973), 1:20 6. The Bird of Paradise (1975), 5:39 Paul Scheerbart 1. da "Ichliebe dich! Ein eisenbahnroman": Kikakou (1897) / da "NaProst! Phantastischer Konigsroman" : Zauberspruch I-II (1898) / da "Immer mutig! Ein Phantasticher Nilpferderoman": Monolog des Verruckten Mastadons (1902), 2:35 Kurt Schwitters, Switzerland 1. Simultangedicht kaa gee dee (1919) / WW (1922) / boo (1926) / naa (1926) / bii bull ree (1936) / Obervogelsang (1946) / Niesscherzo e Hunstenscherzo (1937) / The real disuda of the nightmare (1946), 6:39 Adriano Spatola 1. Hommage a Eric Satie (1976), 7:43 Demetrio Stratos, Greece 1. O Tzitziras o Mitziras (1976), 4:01 Tristan Tzara, Marcel Janco, Richard Hulsenbeck 1. L'amiral cherche une maison a louer (1916), 2:30 Paul de Vree 1. April am Rhein (1966), :47 2. Kids (1974), :53 3. Organon (1965), 4:40 4. Terrena trou bahi (1965), :47 Patrizia Vicinelli, Italy 1. Sette Poemi (1967-76), 1967-76 Benjamin Weismann, USA 1. Hitler Ski Story | 1994 (13:09) Reese Williams, USA 1. The Sonance Project, Part 1 2. The Sonance Project, Part 2 Il 'Ja Zdanevic 1. scena da "Asino a nolo" (1918), 1:38 U B U W E B / E P C :: M P 3___A R C H I V E http://www.ubu.com/mp3 Sorry for cross-postings. Please forward this announcement. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:01:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." -- George Orwell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 00:59:28 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: It's 8:23 in New York MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill. I hadnt had time to see this: I've been "swinging" crazily on this whole thing since it happpened. I know you're right and its stupid to feel guilty...you're are right though: I'm not capable of killing on whatever side, or of being a racsist: my "problem" is that I wierdly "see" every thing simultaneously..I am probably not alone in this: I think a good novelist would have to be like that: to really see, I mean see things: but of course I dont know any answers...truth is the first casualty of war as they say....some questions of what is reality are raised... It would be impossible to write coldly on this issue (or at least be "cold blooded" as one wrote)........at least we have the commonality of wanting a better and more egalitarian world, less suffering, are not killers as such,we love poetry and art and so on: most of us are disagreeing about methods and reactions and our language picks up a lot of rhetoric. Whatever I feel about Big Bad America: I couldnt go to kill Americans but my point was that sometimes a note of smugness creeps in from the more conservative people: but then I've been smug myself. One issue is "does the ends (ever ) justify the means"? One positive thing about all this is the heightened interest now in international politics and the sufferingsof others (not that the guys who hit the towers necessarily cared about those issues: in a way they were or are catalysts) and some of the "bad" things (not exclusive reserve of the US of course or even the West)....certainly I oppose military action by the US: as to causes and who did the actual act and "what's behind it" that's always going to be the subject of debate. I have found it hard to read poetry as I used to, or write much,how about others?...by the way just before this happened I was planning to "cut myself off" from the News as a kind of experiment. I was becoming increasingly indifferent to Int or other News..then this news hit... Regards, Richard. PS I tend to "go off the deep end"...must control that, the tendency to rave...it acheives nothing: I dont even convince myself! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:40 AM Subject: Re: It's 8:23 in New York > In a message dated 9/17/01 7:56:49 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > << I obtained a couple of books by Robert Kelly and I am finding him very > > interesting: sometimes quite moving, much beautiful poetry. Cheers, Richard. > > Richard. >> > > Richard, sorry to chime in. Rage, as any psychologist worth his degree with > tell you, is a normal response to the feeling of helplessness. Stop beating > yourself up over it. You are not a warmonger nor a racist, despite any such > accusations that might have shaken you. I've been heartened by the balance > the List now evinces. Reminders of USA virtues are leaking in. This country > has much to be ashamed of, but also to be proud of. We need to hear both > sides. As a lifelong skeptic, I devour news and opinions from both > mainstream and independent sources. I don't believe for a New York minute > that either one is free from spin. Israel quite obviously views the conflict > from a perspective very different from its enemies. From their point of > view, the racism, religious bigotry, warmongering, desire to eradicate a > neighbor is mostly on the other side. Who's right? Who has a lock on the > truth? > > Several List members have cited Robert Fisk. But there are others equally > knowledgeable about the region who have reached different conclusions > regarding responsibility. Whose "scripture" should be our Bible? I don't > know. I'm reminded how weak is human nature and our understanding of it, and > our forgiveness of it. Best, Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > KojaPress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 09:47:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Haykel:Avoiding Bin Laden's Trap In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010928163239.02b14ec0@pop.bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following article came out last week in a German paper. I contacted the author to get the original, English, version, which he forwarded, noting that no US paper had been willing to print his piece. -- Pierre Avoiding Bin Laden's Trap Bernard Haykel Assistant Professor of Islamic Studies New York University The war America is engaged in after the attacks on the WTC, the Pentagon and Pennsylvania is a war for the hearts and minds of average Muslims around the world. Bin Laden, if indeed he is the mastermind behind the attacks, has set a trap for the US into which it must not fall. By attacking the US as part of a jihad ("a holy war"), Bin Laden is in fact claiming to Muslims to represent their grievances and to represent real Islam. He is in effect saying: "Muslims, I share your grievances unlike your corrupt and authoritarian governments; I am the only one doing something about it. I have destroyed the symbols of American capitalism and stopped the heartbeat of world finance which the US dominates." The US, as well as moderate Muslims the world over, must unite and deny him this symbolic victory and must not accept to engage him in combat on these terms. We should not let him define the terms of our intellectual and symbolic battle. As a professor of Islamic law I have researched the law of jihad and can state unequivocally that the war Bin Laden has engaged us in cannot be labeled a jihad. Furthermore, I believe a strong case can be made that he has acted contrary to the tenets of Islam and can be ostracized from the community of believing Muslims. Moderate Muslims will agree with me, certainly, as they are horrified by this attack and are desperate to have it disassociated from their religion. The West must provide moderate Muslims a way out of Bin Laden's trap. According to Islamic law there are at least six reasons why Bin Laden’s barbaric violence cannot fall under the rubric of jihad: 1) Individuals and organizations cannot declare a jihad, only states can; 2) One cannot kill innocent women and children when conducting a jihad; 3) One cannot kill Muslims in a jihad; 4) One cannot fight a jihad against a country in which Muslims can freely practice their religion and proselytize Islam; 5) Prominent Muslim jurists around the world have condemned these attacks and their condemnation forms a juristic consensus (ijma`) against Bin Laden's actions. This consensus renders his actions un-Islamic; 6) The welfare and interest of the Muslim community (maslaha) is being harmed by Bin Laden’s actions and this equally makes them un-Islamic. The Muslim Sentiment on "The Street": Americans have been baffled by reports that Muslims do not like, and even hate the US. Muslims do not hate America. As proof of this we have: seven million Muslims living in the US; foreign Muslims, like many others around the world, clamor to obtain US immigration visas for the US; Muslims consume American products and emulate American fashions (intellectual, social and sartorial); Muslims place the bulk of their money in US financial institutions; the list goes on and on. What many Muslims undeniably resent about America, however, are American foreign policies towards Iraq, Iran, Israel/Palestine and a complicit policy of supporting corrupt and authoritarian regimes all over the Muslim world. Yet despite this resentment only 4,000 Muslims actively seek to destroy America. These 4,000 Muslims are Bin Laden’s foot soldiers. Let us remember that in 20 years of recruitment Bin Laden has only been able to recruit 4,000 men. This group, otherwise known as the Arab-Afghans, have theological and legal beliefs that are at odds with the remaining 1 billion plus Muslims in the world today. They are also at odds with those of their supporters, the Taliban, who, for their part, are fanatical Hanafis of the Deoband school. Surely, 4,000 men do not represent the entirety of the Islamic peoples?--and we should hammer this point home continually. We should also deny Bin Laden the opportunity of feeding off Muslim resentment and his claim to represent them. An immediate plan of action for the US and Western governments: There are very practical steps the US government can take that will take the wind out of Bin Laden's sails and sidestep the trap he has laid. I will begin with the most obvious measures. They are: 1. We should not send US or Western troops and special forces into Afghanistan with the aim of arresting or killing Bin Laden. He has thought about this scenario and desires it. A military attack on him would provide a double victory: If he is killed he dies a martyr and symbol of resistance to Western domination; he also gets to kill a number of US soldiers and tarnishes the image of America in the minds of ordinary Muslims. Afghanistan is the most backward and probably the poorest country in the Islamic world; the image of the most powerful nation stomping on it will be a public relations disaster and will destabilize Arab regimes. We must encourage Muslim countries to lead the fight against Bin Laden. Support the Northern Alliance who have 15,000 troops in Afghanistan and work on the Pakistani moderates to get involved in the fight. If retribution, as seems to be the case, has to take place and America must feel it is the prime agent in the pursuit of justice, then no military action can afford not to involve moderate Muslim forces and their cooperation. This is not a plea for war, far from it: there is too much bellicose rhetoric as it is. 2. We must stop using inflammatory language, such as President Bush's statement that this is a crusade. Such a word evokes monstrous historical memories in the minds of Muslims, namely barbaric Europeans rampaging through the Eastern Mediterranean. Furthermore, Crusade connotes Christianity versus Islam and this is not the right message. The infelicity of this locution has presumably been brought to the attention of the President. 3. We must publish a list of all the Muslims and women and children who died in the WTC attack, since Islamic law categorically prohibits the murder of such innocents. 4. We must engage our own Muslim community leaders here in the US, and, particularly, send the respected ones among them with these facts to the Middle East and South Asia to meet with impartial and respected Islamic legal scholars, people who are respected by the man on the street and who are clearly not in the employ of their respective governments. Scholars in Mecca, Medina and Riyadh will be central in this regard, as will scholars in India and Pakistan. These scholars must be convinced to issue fatwas (legal opinions) declaring Bin Laden's teachings and actions illegal. Because it is prohibited by mainstream Islam, they cannot declare Bin Laden an infidel (a practice called takfir) and we should not expect this of them. These opinions will help bolster the consensus mentioned above and may convince the Taliban that they need to hand Bin Laden over. 5. In the near future, we must put forth subtle hints that we will be willing to reassess our foreign policies in the world. I think if we take the steps outlined above we may be able to ostracize Bin Laden from the Muslim community and energize moderate Muslims to take center stage again. America will win the war as will the vast majority of Muslims. ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 POASIS: Selected Poems 1986-1999 Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 go to: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/poasis.htm Email: joris@ albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 10:48:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kimball Organization: http://www.fauxpress.com/kimball Subject: Faux Press Notes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Four new books forthcoming from Faux Press: 'on my way' by Eileen Myles, 72 pages, 12.50 Terry Castle in the London Review of Books writes of Eileen Myles's poetry as "precocious, punked out, exquisitely droll..." In 'on my way' Myles concentrates on public and intimate transactions through long and short poems and an essay entitled "The End of New England," which takes up questions of contemporary poetry and Massachusetts working-class speech. 'Western Capital Rhapsodies' by Marcella Durand, 128 pages, 12.50 In this well-timed urban document Marcella Durand offers sets of poem-cycles, written over the last six years under the shadow of the Brooklyn Bridge, an exploration of the universal city, both interior and exterior, wild and developed, inaccessible and open. Joe Elliot writes, "In Durand's poetry there is no ghost outside the poem ... No trying. Just reality..." 'Memoir 1960-1963' by Tony Towle, 104 pages, 12.50 John Ashbery describes Tony Towle's poetry as "one of the New York School's best-kept secrets." Towle's memoirs are fast-paced prose recollections of events and live-wire characters, including Frank O'Hara, Kenneth Koch, Frank Lima, Ted Berrigan, and many others who shaped and structured his first days as a poet during the early years of the New York School 'before anyone was famous.' 'How To Proceed in the Arts' by Gary Sullivan, 104 pages, 12.50 The craft and high jinks of making it the world of poetry and art are the consistent focus of Gary Sullivan's madcap processing of maximum impact pieces: love letters as posts to e-lists, a fake writer's survey, an imagined interview between Clark Coolidge and Gertrude Stein, and much more. Jordan Davis suggests Sullivan "should quit his day job and become the Lester Bangs of poetry." For more info, including a prepublication deal -- all four books for 40.00 -- go to . And for New Yorkers, please note, the Faux Press launch party, books, refreshments, readings by the authors! Friday, October 26 from 6-8 pm at Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Sq. West, 7th Fl. For information, call 212-691-6590 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 09:00:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cinthia jasper Subject: Thich Nhat Hanh Interview MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "What I Would Say To Osama bin Laden" interviewed on 9/24/01 http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=105174 if link doesn't work try sf.indymedia.org/ --interview posted today 10.01 cheryl burket __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:53:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this is a super complex issue. Israel was founded by a romantic ideal, to give Jews a homeland but it was based in the ideal put forth in Genesis that God gave eretz israel to the people. The people who lived in the land before 1948 have not been treated well since 1948. This is not to say that the Israelis have been good or bad it is just to say that in 1948 1.2 million Arabs and 400,000 Jews lived in Palestine, today 6 million Jews live on that land. Much of the Arab land was expropriated and many regions that were populated for thousands of years were denuded of Arabs and filled with Eastern European Jews. Nazareth is a good example of this. In 1948 Nazareth had a population on 160,000 mostly Christian Arabs. The community dated from the 3rd Century. Today the Nazareth Region has less than 67,000 Arabs and 250,000 Jews. Is this any less ethnic cleansing than what Hitler did in Poland with the jews? I think the answer to this issue is frankly Polandization. That is what happened in the ethnically mixed areas of Poland after WW2. Germans were removed from areas to be given to Poland, Poles were removed from areas given to Russia greating an ethnically pure germany, poland and Russia. The Arabs in Palestine should be given a state, the Jews should have Israel, the nations of the world should guarantee security to both nations and we should not ask them to live together. Maybe this would work? It appears that this worked between Poland and Germany? R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth M. Dauber" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 4:02 PM Subject: Israel > The only thing everybody seems to agree on is that, whatever cause it has > been in leading to the attacks of September 11, the United States' policy > in relation to Israel needs to be changed. It is hard, however, to > understand what, in justice, this means. > > The Clinton policy was for Israel to offer to the Palestinians just the > Palestinian state alongside Israel that most Poetics listserv writers say > they favor, and it is what Barak did offer at Camp David--95% and more of > the West Bank and Gaza, including East Jerusalem--and what Arafat rejected > by launching his second intifada, without so much as a negotiation for a > better deal. We need to be reminded that a Palestinian state alongside of > Israel was what all the Arab nations rejected in '48, launching a war to > prevent it; it is what both Jordan and Egypt rejected from '48 to '67, when > they controlled all of the West Bank and Gaza, where they preferred keeping > the Palestinians in miserable refugee camps to a genuine Palestinian > homeland, resulting in another war when Israel rejected Nasser's call to > "push them to the sea"; and it is what Arafat continues to reject, both > overtly and by refusing to reign in the absolutely rejectionist Hizbollah > and Hamas, who, also overtly, say they want no Jews living anywhere from > the Jordan to the Mediterranean. > > It's convenient to blame Israel for the state of Arab and Palestinian > suffering in the Middle East and to romanticize Arafat as a freedom > fighter. But even in relation to their own people, Arafat and the > Palestinian Authority have behaved like a bunch of thugs an crooks, > squirreling away into Swiss bank accounts the millions upon millions of > dollars that have poured into them from the United States, as a result of > the Oslo accords, and from the Arab oil nations, instead of using them to > create a Palestinian economy, and preventing almost any freedom of dissent > with repression and murder. > > Let the PA's praise as martyrs of suicide blowing up of restaurants and > discotechs stop; let the PA's state media stop demonizing Israelis as they > do in the most conventional anti-Jewish fashion (pictures of Jews with long > noses and all); let Arafat start telling his people, in Arabic, that they > must accept an independent Israel as a now and forever fact, whether they > like it or not; let him respond to the Barak proposal, and you will see a > new election in Israel that Labor can again win and a peace and quiet > between the Jordan and the Mediterranean that, I would hope, the United > States would protect from the other rejectionist Arab leaders who will then > have much to fear from their own peoples who might just demand of them some > such decent life as they see in the example that is thereby set. > > Ken Dauber ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 13:47:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Bibby Subject: Job Opening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Poetics Folks: Here's a copy of the job ad my dept will be running in the MLA job list soon--as some of you may know, we are searching to fill the vacancy left by John Taggart's retirement. best, Michael Bibby Dept. of English Shippensburg University ----------------------------------------------------- Tenure-track assistant professor in Creative Writing (Poetry), full-time appointment beginning August 2002. MFA or PhD required by time of appointment. Candidates should possess a strong commitment to undergraduate education and service, and they should also demonstrate recent scholarly activity, including published poetry (preferably a book). Twelve-hour course load each semester could include creative writing, general education courses (writing and literature), and courses in the major. Desirable related expertise may include a secondary creative writing specialty, literary theory, American literature, or world literature. Selected candidates will submit a writing sample, and first-round interviews will be held at MLA. On-campus interviews will include a demonstration of teaching effectiveness and a brief poetry reading. Highly competitive salary and benefits package. For more information about Shippensburg University, see http://www.ship.edu Please send a letter of application, current c.v., and three recent letters of recommendation to: Kim Long, Chair Creative Writing Search Committee Shippensburg University of Pennsylvania 1871 Old Main Drive, DHC 113 Shippensburg PA 17257 Applications must be postmarked no later than November 2, 2001. E-mail inquiries (but not applications): kmlong@ship.edu Shippensburg University is committed to equal employment opportunity. Women, persons of color, veterans, and the disabled are encouraged to apply. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:35:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: readings wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I will be in the northeast for the month of December with a new chapbook from Chax Press in hand. I'd like to do a/some readings in the Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, and Baltimore/Washington areas. Anyone who can offer such please backchannel. Thanks. Mark Weiss ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 11:57:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: what is being done/UCB Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear J., Thank you for your reply. I am aware of most of what you mention that is happening at UCB. I agree that my characterization was a bit flamboyant and flip. I do have respect for what is happening amongst some of the students at Cal; however that is tempered by both my experience as a student there and more by my experience as a citizen of Berkeley since birth. There are ways in which the student and academic populations overwhelm the town and these aggrieve me at times (I realize the economic "boon" the univ brings and parts of the cultural, tho I wouldn't give as much credit as is given by some). Also I recall the snippy egomania of such movements I was peripherally involved in as a student there. So, I was flip, much the same way I've been flip about our President. I do not agree if I take your meaning correctly that the Left shouldn't critique its own. Such critique can come in many forms. However I agree this doesn't seem to be the place for such. But then, where is, these days. Elizabeth Treadwell "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 21:52:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: The Flag as Material Object MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chinese Working Overtime to Sew U.S. Flags By John Pomfret Washington Post Foreign Service Thursday, September 20, 2001; Page A14 SHANGHAI -- As America wraps its wounds in red, white and blue, flag factories in China are running nonstop to feed the overwhelming demand in the United States for the Stars and Stripes. At the Shanghai Mei Li Hua Flags Co., office director Wu Guomin has received orders for more than 500,000 flags from customers in the United States in the week since the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington. "I guess because we make so many of these things you could say we feel a little closer to the situation there," Wu said as he fingered an American flag. "We're working day and night." The Jin Teng Flag Co. in neighboring Zhejiang province reported orders of 600,000. "It's crazy and very, very sad," said Jin Teng, the factory owner. "Everyone is on overtime trying to satisfy demand." Jin and Wu said that even with China's National Day fast approaching on Oct. 1, they have stopped making Chinese flags so that they can fill U.S. orders.. "We've been presented with an opportunity to make a lot more money than we usually do making these flags," said Wu, whose factory sells medium-size flags to U.S. distributors for about $1 apiece. "But we won't take it. We really didn't want to make too much of a profit on other people's sadness." At the Shanghai plant, Fei Xiaohua, a laborer, was sewing a 6-by-9-foot flag. "This is my 50th so far today," she said, her fingers working nimbly. "Sometimes I don't like this job. But this time, what I'm doing seems worth it." It is unclear what percentage of U.S. flags are made in China, but as with all textiles, the numbers have boomed in recent years. China produces more shoes and clothes for the U.S. market than any other country. In a few years, China will become the biggest producer of computer parts for the U.S. market as well. The flag business illustrates the increasingly close trade ties between China and the United States, valued last year at more than $100 billion. Those ties are expected to expand with China's imminent accession to the World Trade Organization (WTO). China moved a giant step forward toward that goal last weekend when the organization generally agreed on its conditions for entry. "WTO should provide a great opportunity for us," said Wu, a suave 44-year-old manager. "Right now, no one around the world can really compete with us flag makers. We have good machines and rock-bottom labor costs." Wu and Jin said they hoped Americans would not mind that Chinese were making their flags. The manufacture of such patriotic symbols has caused trouble in the past. Following the April 1 collision of a U.S. Navy reconnaissance plane and a Chinese jet fighter off China's southern coast, the Pentagon canceled contracts to outfit Army soldiers with a "Made in China" black beret. China, too, has used trade as a lever in relations with Washington, expressing occasional discontent with U.S. policies by cozying up to Europe's Airbus Industries instead of Boeing Co. But this time, in the days following the disaster, as the global airline market crashed, China repeated its commitment to buy 30 Boeing 737s, making it one of the world's bright spots for aviation firms. "We are living in a really global world right now," said Wu. "It's natural that China manufactures simple things for the whole world. We have a manufacturing economy." But Sun Zhenyu, a top trade official, warned today that China's export growth, a key element in China's economy, will likely face a serious threat for the remainder of the year, according to the official New China News Agency. Already, Chinese travel agents are reporting hundreds of cancellations. "The U.S. economy is already bad, surely this will affect the global economy, including China," Sun said. © 2001 The Washington Post Company ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:35:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Mike Topp It's all pretty classic/chronic Mike Topp who lives and works in a large Eastern metropolis. He can be reached at mike_topp@ hotmail.com. Life is strange. METROPOLITAN DIARY by Bobby Kelly & Mike Topp Fountain of Youth I was sitting on the number 7 crosstown bus when the older gentleman in front of me began to vibrate. I knew what that meant, but before I could get out of the way, sure enough, he exploded. Bits of flesh flew everywhere and the blood ruined the bag of feces I was carrying (a memento of my nephew's first communion). I looked across the aisle at a stylish twenty-something blonde who had chunks of organ meat all over her obviously expensive dress. "Old people!" she laughed, as she twisted her body to spray me with a stream of warm urine. Mike Topp and Bobby Kelly ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 18:23:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Lewis Subject: Buffalo Poets For Peace Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attention Buffalo Poets, Poets For Peace is currently organizing a national series of readings t= o=20 benefit The Red Cross and The United Way. I have been asked to create this=20 reading series for the Buffalo area beginning the week of Oct. 8, 2001.=20 Confirmed venues so far are Rust Belt Books, Oct.12, The Center for Inquiry,= =20 Oct. 10 and Fog City on Oct. 14. If you are interested in participating=20 please contact me immediately at Kleelew@aol.com. I'm looking forward to=20 hearing from you. Karen Lewis Readings - link to v= iew national schedule of events > POETS FOR PEACE was founded by attorney and poet Paloma Capanna and poet=20 > Ilya Kaminsky in late 1990s in Rochester NY in response to the Balkan=20 > Crisis and war in Yugoslavia. Today, we are planning a series of poetry=20 > readings across the nation in response to recent events in NYC, DC and PA.= =20 > We will give free readings and ask people for donations/help to Red Cross,= =20 > United Way and other relief organizations. We want to show that the people= =20 > care and that the peoples of NY, DC and PA are not alone in their efforts=20 > to rebuild. We want poets to join hands and speak.=20 >=20 poets4peace is a group of dedicated poets who harness their words for the=20 betterment of all living things.poets4peace is open to poets from all=20 countries who share in the power of art and poetry to create change and=20 manifest improvement in the society.poets4peace works on the principle that=20 an artist is the true creator of a civilization.poets4peace is about=20 communication creating understandings, that=A0 this universal language is=20 spoken from the heart and the soul.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:37:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Bassford Subject: Exoterica Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We may be asking ourselves these days, " ...is there a purpose to poetry?" Fall Community Workshop Leader JOHANNA KELLER says, "...during times of great suffering and strife, poets have answered this question with words that have endured." In this workshop, we will come together to read participants' current poems, and write new ones. Each class will include close readings of poems and related optional exercises. Writers at all levels of development are welcome. 8 consecutive Wednesdays begin October 17th. The fee is $200. Johanna Keller is the author of "The Skull: North Carolina, 1961" (The Press at Colorado College, 1998) and co-editor of "Carolyn Kizer: Perspectives on Her Life and Work" (CavanKerry Press, 2001). And...this Sunday, October 7th, Marie Ponsot, will read for us at 1 p.m. All events are at The Society for Ethical Culture, 4450 Fieldston Road, in the Bronx. Write here or call 718-549-5192 for details. SAVE October 28th, 1p.m. for An Afternoon of Scottish Poetry featuring Don Paterson and Kathleen Jamie...more on that in the next newsletter...EXOTERICA...we'll be spreading the word... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 13:12:11 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: SAMIZDAT #5 AND #6 NOW ONLINE! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey there Poetics folks. Samizdat's ace web person (& fiction-writer) Kate Swoboda has put issues #5 and #6 up online. We're still working out a few formatting errors, but by and large things are in place. Please have a look at: www.samizdateditions.com/issue5/index5.html www.samizdateditions.com/issue6/index6.html The long-awaited issue #8 will be out in paper format soon! Best, Robert Archambeau ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 04:07:15 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: In The Eye Of A Fly Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Before the stars were not Very dark very dark it was it was Burnt into refrain & refrain Still affection of all that grows Knows this home In naked pluck to softest berries Let us unashamed As aware & heir in forms The slight inflection family Now figure we on our own To confront a new our selves Words imagine having Endless possible fingers & yet behind words People & things & ideas behind & beneath & beside There there are As if a course must to some future Ideal reaching costs Imagine a question yes it does Yes it does matter Knowing the rose without Why in the eye of a fly Ten thousand whorled wise Reuven BenYuhmin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 16:07:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII == nothing i do will change your mind, the letter comes in through your mail slot, it enters your inbox, you see alan there, you see sondheim there, you can't delete fast enough, no matter how innovative, intelligent, you can't see what i'm a nuisance, i get in the way, i take up too much space, i write too much, my writing is meaningless, it's not real literature, it's not real philosophy, not poetry, it's not real anything, it shouldn't be taken seriously, it shouldn't be reproduced, it just goes on and on, there's far more of it than there should be, it's close to garbage it clutters the inbox, it's an ugly name, it gets in the way, alan doesn't write by the rules, sondheim's obnoxious, his thought's idiotic, he plays too many mind-games, this is just a mind-game, he wants too much, he whines too much, he thinks he's a victim, his readers are victims he enters your inbox, he enters your mail slot, he wants to enter your mind, he wants to enter your holes, his work is filthy, he doesn't know when to stop, you can't take him seriously, you have to hit the kill key, you don't have to read past the name, don't even write him, he'll just write you back my work is disgusting, nothing i do will make the slightest difference, you'll never publish it, you'll never write about it, you'll just keep it dead, there's so much of it, you'll see something sooner or later, i can't help that, i'm too obsessive, you'll never like it, you'll never do anything with it, sondheim's far too bitter, his name is so ugly, he's far too arrogant, he's a thief, he's a liar unoriginal garbage, i can't continue forever, i can't make sense, nothing i do will make any sense to you, my work's only lurid, it's only about sex, it's only about violence, it's too easy to do, you can't read a word of it, it's stolen from everyone, it's poisoning newsgroups, it's a nuisance on email lists, it's nothing but junk mail, it's nothing but spam it doesn't matter what i do or how i do it, it doesn't matter how stupid i am, i'm too self-hating, it doesn't matter how creative the work is, i could scream at the gates, i'm too old to be original, i don't act my age, i haven't paid my dues, i just complain and complain, i just go on and on, nothing i do will change your mind, it comes in your inbox, it comes in your holes, it's far too creepy, you see alan there, you see sondheim there, it goes on and on, he's just a fake, his politics are fake, it makes no difference what i ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 16:07:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: wtc (for a forthcoming ezine issue) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII === on the same, everywhere, leading to vast disseminations (i won't repeat the geopolitical arguments; within them, there are other concerns, perhaps useless, perhaps nagging at the remnants of occidental epistemology that survive.) certainly the attack was brilliant, planned for years, a trail both open, swollen like a carapace, and closed/foreclosed, just with/before the proper name: bin laden. open to the extent that hundreds have been arrested, that the amerikan psyche seems (at this close proximity, useless in the long run) permanently wounded; every mode of transportation, from foot to cruise ship to airplane is closely monitored - and still box-cutters get through. there is no protection; there never has been. but for the violent symbolic misery of the wtc: this will be lost forever. one collapse, one catastrophe, metonymically spreads, just as body-parts turn to sintered dust. if culture remains behind the walls of the raw and the cooked, the pure and profaned, we now understand, more than ever, its abject roots. the nomadic seizes the empire; viral organisms move from one motel to another, one city to another, one plane to another. the empire remains in the grid, situates itself at the cartesian origin (its own form of violent foreclosure); the empire _is_ the grid. organisms leave no trace; they appear to reproduce indefinitely; they are of the stones themselves; they are your next-door neighbor, your relative. this is endemic within a domain in which, i believe, evil is doubly- countenanced: the evil of an intolerant fundamentalism, and the evil of any organized religion splaying gods in skies, proclaiming truth. i have no doubt about this evil, which expresses itself as godlike, far more than any good: good is of the earth; evil comes from above. ethics is unwarranted, but is all one has. think of the postmodern world as seepages against monuments to modernism: the world trade center towers, human beings who resist fragmentation, the media coagulating, now, around understandable patriotic ideologies which, of course, carry their own implicit violence. what do we do? we write constantly; we examine our earlier work for signs of future holocaust; we respond. the original acts themselves were their own responses; the multiplicity of fbi, cia, and other agents, plays against quadruple singularities; the singularities play out, as embers, against the multiplicity of victims. they could have been anyone, anywhere; on that day, distance collapsed, stuff broke. from outer space there must have been a flicker. think of civilizations winking out everywhere in the universe, at the service of nuclear and biological weapons, rigid ideological formations, as if instinctual, closing down in pain. so a new mathematics of the real is born: the monad home to rest in collapse, and multiplicity fanning out among suburban, urban, and nomadic landscapes. the attacks alone were delimited - all that earlier fanning out returning to the origin of a violent religious asceticism. what the taliban are doing on a daily basis - the culling of difference - occurred in collusion in new york. penetrated permanently, we are all the poorer for it. === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 16:09:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Jim Behrle reads in NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jim Behrle reads with Andy Clausen Thursday 10/18 7 PM Poetry City -- 5 Union Square West, NYC call (212) 691-6590 with various hanging out and drinking to be had at 9 PM or after at Botanica: 47 Houston St New York, NY 10012 Phone: (212) 343-7251 Jim Behrle edits can we have our ball back? and co-edits PRESSED WAFER. His first chapbook, CITY POINT (Pressed Wafer) was published in 2000. Behrle is the events director for Brookline Booksmith and curates Bookcellar-->Booksmith Poetry readings. He serves as roving poet for NPR's "Here & Now." Behrle lives in Brookline, MA. Andy Clausen was born Andre Laloux in a Belgian bomb shelter in 1943. He was raised in Oakland, California. USA. He graduated from Bishop O'Dowd High School in 1961 and attended six colleges. He began trying to be a "beat" poet in 1965 after reading Kerouac, Ginsberg, Corso et al. He has traveled and read his poetry all over North America and the world (New York, California, Alaska, Texas, Prague, Kathmandu, Amsterdam etc.). He has maintained a driven intrepid lifestyle and aspired to be a champion of the underdog. His chief books have been: The Iron Curtain of Love, Without Doubt, and his selected verse of 30 years, 40th Century Man. Allen Ginsberg not only called him the "Future of American Poetry" but in the introduction to Without Doubt, said he would take a chance on a "President Clausen." Clausen has taught at Naropa Institute and given readings and lectures at many universities. He has worked for poetry in the schools agencies in California, New Jersey, Colorado and New York. He is now a stone mason, troubadour, and a freelance teacher of creative writing under the auspices of Teachers & Writers in the NYC school system. He is presently working on memoirs of his friendship and adventures with Allen Ginsberg, Gregory Corso and many others of the Beat Generation. In 1982 he was voted the most exciting poet at the Kerouac Conference in Boulder, Colorado. If you can make, it would be great to see you. yr. pal --Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 16:39:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: [7-11] textz.com newsletter october 2001 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE This is an absolutely incredible source - Alan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 19:00:10 +0200 From: textz.com Reply-To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Subject: [7-11] textz.com newsletter october 2001 ___________________________________________________________________________= _____ textz.com newsletter october 2001 ___________________________________________________________________________= _____ ---------------------------------------------------------------- 10 of our september 11 textz ---------------------------------------------------------------- hakim bey: millennium http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dbey+millennium hermann l. gremliza: bedeutende ernte http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dgremliza+ernte robert kurz: totalit=E4re =F6konomie und paranoia des terrors http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dkurz+paranoia brian massumi: everywhere you want to be http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dmassumi+everywhere yann moulier boutang: apocalypse g=EAnes http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dboutang+apocalypse gianfranco sanguinetti: remedy for everything http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dsanguinetti+french georg see=DFlen: die blendung http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dseesslen+blendung klaus theweleit: twin towers http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dtheweleit+towers leo trotzki: =FCber den terror http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dtrotzki+terror raoul vaneigem: terrorism or revolution http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dvaneigem+terrorism ---------------------------------------------------------------- 10 of our most popular textz ---------------------------------------------------------------- douglas adams: the hitch hiker's guide to the galaxy trilogy http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dadams+guide kathy acker: the language of the body http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dacker+language nanni balestrini: gli invisibili http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dbalestrini+invisibili a.s.ambulanzen: feminists like us http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dambulanzen+feminists charles baudelaire: les fleurs du mal http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dbaudelaire+fleurs george orwell: 1984 http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dorwell+1984 oscar wilde: the picture of dorian gray http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dwilde+picture central intelligence agency: psychological operations ... http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dagency+operations william s. burroughs: the electronic revolution http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dburroughs+revolution adilkno: cracking the movement http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dadilkno+movement ---------------------------------------------------------------- 10 of our most recommended textz ---------------------------------------------------------------- antonin artaud: le p=E8se-nerfs http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dartaud+pese-nerfs mike davis: beyond blade runner http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Ddavis+beyond guy debord: la societ=E9 du spectacle http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Ddebord+societe gilles deleuze: postscript on the societies of control http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Ddeleuze+postscript thomas frank: the conquest of cool http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dfrank+cool matthew fuller: it looks like you're writing a letter ... http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dfuller+letter jean-luc godard: allemagne neuf z=E9ro http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dgodard+allemagne michael hardt / antonio negri: empire http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dhardt+empire courtney love: music and piracy http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dlove+music daniel r. white: augustine of epcot - the city of disney http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dwhite+augustine ---------------------------------------------------------------- 10 of our most recent textz ---------------------------------------------------------------- peter greenaway: a walk through h http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dgreenaway+walk theodor w. adorno / max horkheimer: tierpsychologie http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dadorno+tierpsychologie wilhelm reich: die aufhebung der familie http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dreich+familie ulrike meinhof: warenhausbrandstiftung http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dmeinhof+warenhausbrandstiftung mckenzie wark: hacker manifesto 2.0 http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dwark+hacker maurice blanchot: death sentence http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dblanchot+death michel serres: scientific ethics http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dserres+ethics maurizio lazzarato: new forms of production and circulation ... http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dlazzarato+forms vil=E9m flusser: the bag http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dflusser+bag hans-christian dany: die acht sch=F6nsten fahrten durch rio http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Ddany+rio ---------------------------------------------------------------- 10 of our largest textz ---------------------------------------------------------------- leo tolstoy: war and peace http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dtolstoy+war james joyce: ulysses http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Djoyce+ulysses charles baudelaire: curiosit=E9s esth=E9tiques http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dbaudelaire+curiosites kevin kelly: out of control http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dkelly+control herman melville: moby dick http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dmelville+moby georg wilhelm friedrich hegel: ph=E4nomenologie des geistes http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dhegel+phaenomenologie fyodor dostoyevsky: crime and punishment http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Ddostoyevsky+crime franz kafka: tageb=FCcher http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dkafka+tagebuecher neal stephenson: snow crash http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dstephenson+snow marcel proust: le temps retrouv=E9 http://textz.com/index.php3?text=3Dproust+temps ___________________________________________________________________________= _____ http://textz.com - we are the & in copy & paste ___________________________________________________________________________= _____ _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today=3D"7-11.00 > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > > > Thank you for participating in 7-11 MAILING LIST > SUBSCRIBER SATISFACTION SURVEY. > > > > > ###################################################### > #1.7.100(today=3D"7-11.00 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > # # > # _____ _ = _ _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today=3D"7-11.00 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > ########### http://mail.ljudmila.org/mailman/listinfo/7-11 _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____|################################################################## >## ############ ########## # ### ### ## ###### > #### ###### #### #### ###### ############## ###### > # #### ##### #### ########## ###### ### ####### > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:19:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Israel In-Reply-To: <012d01c14886$2aa41b20$d01886d4@overgrowngarden> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i for one would be happy to airlift all Jews --and anyone else who'd like to come along --in Israel to the united states and *then* allow the US to "abandon Israel." but i don't think they'd all want to come. Israel was an experiment that does not seem to have worked, but before abandoning it there must be some situation whereby Jews can live in safety. At 2:28 AM +0100 9/29/01, Lawrence Upton wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kenneth M. Dauber" >To: >Sent: 28 September 2001 21:02 >Subject: Israel > > >| The only thing everybody seems to agree on is that, whatever cause it has >| been in leading to the attacks of September 11, the United States' policy >| in relation to Israel needs to be changed. It is hard, however, to >| understand what, in justice, this means. > >No, it's very easy... > >for the rest of what you say, I got an uneasy sense of deja vu.I'm sure I >have read all that before. Many times. Many many times > >| and what Arafat rejected >| by launching his second intifada, without so much as a negotiation for a >| better deal. > >Well, that's the word from Israel. Me, I say maybe. I'd also say that the >Palestinians could do a lot better than Arafat and what he may or may not do >does not alter the injustice of their situation. I mean I don't judge >USAmericans by their Presidents and they get some kind of choice while >there's no real choice for the Palestinians; and I'd be totally pissed off >if you judged me on the basis of Tony Blair > > We need to be reminded that a Palestinian state alongside of >| Israel was what all the Arab nations rejected in '48, > >& we need to be reminded that the Israeli state had no business being there; >it was a cuckoo > >But Israel is very strong, courtesy in part of USA and to a lesser extent UK > >As a result, many but not all, I agree, have conceded the existence of >Israel, but that's a response to its power not its legitimacy... in addition >there now could be no justice if those who have been born since the >establishment of the state of israel were just uprooted > >BUT bringing up the resistance post 1948 is not relevant. of course the >arabs resisted. What would you expect them to do? Now there is a desire for >a settlement on the basis of the internationally-agreed borders. It doesn't >look as though Israel wants to settle... I'd raise the internationally >agreed borders and that 200000 squatters the wrong side of it > >| they controlled all of the West Bank and Gaza, where they preferred >keeping >| the Palestinians in miserable refugee camps to a genuine Palestinian >| homeland, > >excuse me? They had a genuine homeland. It was full of people who had >immigrated from all over the world in defiance of the decision of those who >ruled Palestine until 1948 and later on the basis of race > >The American and Australian first peoples have been blamed for their own >misery which had been visited upon them by invading foreigners > >resulting in another war when Israel rejected Nasser's call to >| "push them to the sea"; and it is what Arafat continues to reject, both >| overtly and by refusing to reign in the absolutely rejectionist Hizbollah > >rein in... I doubt he can; but that has nothing to do with the wrongness of >the theft of Palestinian land. Nor is it fair to keep quoting only the most >extreme statements. A few weeks ago we had a report here with the most awful >frightening things being shouted by Israelis about Arabs - but one doesn't >assume that represents all their views all the time > >What Nasser shouted at time of war needs to be read in that context. > >| and Hamas, who, also overtly, say they want no Jews living anywhere from >| the Jordan to the Mediterranean. > >which is not justifiable; but one can see how they came to that state of >mind > >| It's convenient to blame Israel for the state of Arab and Palestinian >| suffering in the Middle East and to romanticize Arafat as a freedom >| fighter. > >those are two quite separate things and it confuses the issue to mix them up > > But even in relation to their own people, Arafat and the >| Palestinian Authority have behaved like a bunch of thugs an crooks, >| squirreling away into Swiss bank accounts the millions upon millions of >| dollars that have poured into them from the United States, as a result of >| the Oslo accords, and from the Arab oil nations, instead of using them to >| create a Palestinian economy, and preventing almost any freedom of dissent >| with repression and murder. > >I get that deja vu again. You haven't mentioned Sabra and Shatila... and >Southern Lebanon... using "the millions upon millions of dollars that have >poured into [Israel] from the United States" > >| Let the PA's praise as martyrs of suicide blowing up of restaurants and >| discotechs stop; let the PA's state media stop demonizing Israelis as they >| do in the most conventional anti-Jewish fashion (pictures of Jews with >long >| noses and all); > >*state media? yes, I think they should declare a state; and a capital > > let Arafat start telling his people, in Arabic, that they >| must accept an independent Israel as a now and forever fact, whether they >| like it or not; > >"Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given >unto you, as I said unto Moses. >4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river >Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the >going down of the sun, shall be your coast. >5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy >life " > >One of the most attractive things about US culture is the racial melting pot >and I am confused by USAmericans who will both see that as positive in their >own country and yet resist the concept in Palestine with such >self-destructive passion > > >L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 16:15:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tracy shaun ruggles Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: <008601c1487d$b71c94a0$d01886d4@overgrowngarden> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I seem to be stuck in using "after it all started happening" when referring to things I did that that day or soon after. And, now just "the thing on the 11th". I have a friend whose birthday is that day. Another who was coming out of a concussion from a fall the night before wondering if she was still dreaming. It's all fairly name-less. Maybe it's because the media and marketing machines have gotten so good at subverting the language for fast thought-transfers. Anything that we name now seems to be "false" because it sounds like someone in the media came up with it. This disturbs me now... that a an amorphous system like the media can so control our language that we (or at least I) feel uncomfortable naming things. Has it always been this way? Or is this event, the thing on the 11th, really so hard to distill? Or, does this event bring to light the "violence of naming" (such a strange phrase now)? Naming it seems to reduce it. It is such a tangled web that any name becomes limiting and makes invisible some other important part that we don't want to forget... --Tracy on 9/28/01 4:04 PM, Lawrence Upton at lawrence.upton@BRITISHLIBRARY.NET wrote: > Yes, > a couple of times I have typed "the bombing" without thinking because there > have been so many bombings resulting in death and injury > > and then I have changed it to "the attack" > > I wrote "les evenements" to someone today > > I wouldn't underestimate the degree to which you do have to find a way to > encompass the experience, but the problem is mechanical as well > > it's a military innovation, or the results of it, you suffered; and the > vocabulary hasn't caught up > > "suicide hijacking and targetted crashing" is too complex > > L > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Silliman" > To: > Sent: 27 September 2001 21:31 > Subject: The language of our times > > > | One of the things that I've been pondering the past two-plus weeks, is the > | way in which everybody, regardless of political persuasion, has referred > to > | the "events of September 11," the "recent incidents," etc. Very much as > | though our language has yet to find a word or phrase that can encompass > our > | experience. > | > | Ron > | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:02:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "PINTO,SAMANTHA NICOLE" Subject: Fwd: open letters reading | october 7 | fergie's pub | philadelphia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE > > >the next open letters reading will be taking place on october 7th at 8pm a= t >fergie's pub [1214 sansom st philadelphia, pa]. > >featured readers: > >neal pollack | mcsweeneys | the neal pollack anthology of american >literature > >tom devaney | the american pragmatist fell in love | kelly's writer's hous= e >| the philadelphia inquirer > >an open reading will follow | emails, class notes, love letters, hate >letters, credit card slips, found letters, etc. ya get the idea... > >(we promise to have more chairs this time.) look forward to seeing you. > > >PRESS RELEASE >Hey kids, get ready to make the memories all over again at Philly=B9s very >second open letters reading. Over 100 people have already participated in >this groundbreaking series, and with the world=B9s greatest living writer, >Philly=B9s own Neil Pollack, leading on the mike this time, anything is >possible. Neil, who writes for The New York Times Magazine, McSweeny=B9s, >Salon.com, Philadelphia Magazine, and The New Republic, will be joined by >Tom Devaney of the Kelly Writer=B9s House, who will share a series of lett= ers >written to the artist of a piece he guarded. > >WHAT THE HECK IS AN OPEN LETTERS READING? >The event runs like a open poetry reading, substituting letters. Anyone ca= n >read and anything can be read. Your grandmother=B9s wartime love letters, = the >resignation sent to a despised boss, wise words from a friend that has >passed, juicy emails found by the shredder, a neoclassical phrase on the >back of an antique store postcard, credit card bills. Letters can be >gut-wrenching or funny, but they are always glimpses into a life. Letters >are conversational and they are great to share. > > >JEEPERS, WHERE DO I SIGN UP? >This swell night runs from 8-11pm, Sunday October 7th upstairs at Fergie= =B9s >Pub, 1214 Sansom Street. We organize this just for the fun of it and will >make no profit, but suggest a $3 donation to help defray costs. > >GOLLY, WHAT IF I NEED MORE INFORMATION? >Julie Gerstein >lettersreading@hotmail.com >215-545-9899 > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:14:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: Ugh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary Sullivan and others - Thanks for voicing your opinions on the "sasq" piece; I'm certainly willing to concede that I may have been in error when I forwarded that post, and I apologize to anyone who was upset by it. I think that my earlier message makes clear the reasoning behind the decision. By way of providing context for that reasoning, I should like to note that one of the unfortunate aspects of my position here has been that certain messages seem guaranteed to draw irritation or even resentment [A] from the person who attempted to send the message in question, if it is not forwarded - this is the situation in which I am a 'dangerous censor'; and [B] from other subscribers if it is forwarded - the situation in which I have exhibited a lapse of simple courtesy or even "human decency." Sometimes the criticisms are accurate even from my own perspective, and sometimes they are not - it is always useful to keep in mind that this List, beyond its life 'in the online,' engages 900 or so disparate personal and political contexts. Occasional contact with the moderators of other lists has demonstrated that the Hazard is endemic even to smaller lists. I have generally opted to deal with it by circulating contentious messages rather than withholding them. The exception is that, aside from the occasional error, I do not forward messages to this list that abuse other subscribers or the list owners/administration; a policy of which everyone was made aware when I was invited to moderate the list, and of which subsequent subscribers have been notified in the Welcome Message. When such messages come through, as they only occasionally do, I respond by politely asking the person who sent the message to tone it down. As to the potential charmingness of "windbag" - being poets, I am confident that we all recognize the degree to which a word's import is subject to usage; Gary's use of the word was, for instance, somewhat witty in its context. It is, of course, entirely possible - as suggested - that the "sasq" post was put forward by a pseudonymous subscriber; on that count, some of you may have noticed that on the next afternoon I posted an emendation to the Welcome Message noting such presences on the List. Finally, I'd like to add one clarification. Gary wrote: > In that light, I found your responses, Chris, to Murat, who lives in I > think New Jersey, or in any case in the NYC area & as such someone who > no doubt has to get on the subway or PATH train (both of which are in > danger btw of being suddenly flooded) despite the now more than 200 > reported bomb threats specific to the subway system here, to be callous. > Especially your second comment about "just walk away from it." Walking > away from threats isn't a luxury we have right now here. (Running away > from them might be more accurate, but still ...) Those of you who read my response will, I hope, realize that I never suggested to Murat that he "just walk away from" anything - the reference was to my own desire for an end to a confrontation unrelated to the "sasq" post. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:41:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Report from Liberty Street Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "Report from Liberty Street" is my account of a recent visit to the southern tip of Manhattan. The link will take you to the web pages of the University of Chicago Press. http://www.press.uchicago.edu/News/911bernstein.html Let me take this opportunity to thank so many of you for your posts to the Poetics list over the past three weeks. It has been necessary company for me and I know many others. Also to thank Chris Alexander for service over and beyond the call and the same thanks again to Tim Shaner. I also want to say that I appreciated the notes of those who have written me over this time in repose to my Poetics posts (or just to check in). Charles ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:53:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: Israel In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't want to take the list further off course, but I am completely wracked over this issue these days. My family is very Zionist: we lived in Israel for a number of years and, in fact, my grandfather lived there as a child when it was Palestine and his mother helped found the first modern Hebrew-speaking kindergarden. Anyway, I myself have a lot of problems with Israel, not only in its relationship to the Palestinians but also in its patriarchy, its internal racism, etc. And agree with Maria that it is an experiment which may have been done with some good intentions but also with great carelessness and cruelty and very badly. In fact, I'd say it's a test case for colonialism gone awry. But now what? There are millions of Jews who live there and feel like there is really no other place for them to go, and this is largely because there isn't. Many Israelis were kicked out or fled from countries were they were being persecuted or killed: the Soviet Union, Yemen, Germany, Lebanon, Ethiopia, etc. This is no excuse for anything, it's just a more complicating factor. The Jewish history is that of the nomad, the refugee, the diaspora. Is this the only way the world can function, with Jews in that role? My two biggest questions: the UN -- the international community, including the US -- got Israel into this mess: what is the global community's role in getting them out of it? And also: I think so much of the heat around this issue stems from cultural identity: Jews like to think of ourselves as the persecuted, not the persecutors. Admiting what Israelis are doing to Palestinians, and have been doing, and the bloody and unjust foundation of the establishment of the nation would require a completely new understanding of the Jewish self. And I already struggle with my own ethnic self-hatred, so I have a field day here. And I read Celan, and Kafka. Sorry to digress. Arielle --- Maria Damon wrote: > i for one would be happy to airlift all Jews --and > anyone else who'd like > to come along --in Israel to the united states and > *then* allow the US to > "abandon Israel." but i don't think they'd all want > to come. Israel was > an experiment that does not seem to have worked, but > before abandoning it > there must be some situation whereby Jews can live > in safety. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:05:18 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes My Moderation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Altho, of course, the US isnt the only capitalist nation: and the guys who attackd are motivated by ...well we dont know...but if "purely" religious...they..any "attacker" would attack what or who they perceive to be rich or "better off", as Bill Austin said anger arises from frustration to be unable to change things: from a sense of injustice, even from things being "not right in your mind" or the reaction of the "child" in us to authority...with many in the Third World as its caused they may have legitimate "gripes" which uts sometimes easier to turn against something huge that may or not be (sometimes is) part of the cause: but there are many causes....if the guy who was going to Syria to attack Americans was for real then one can understand that:its not obscene (what is obscene?)...but certainly we've got to think to what extent we (anyone who is in the capitalistic west or non-Muslim or perceived to be part of the right wing oppressive "machine"...) are culapable or "legitimate targets"...maybe our response here should be to start learning a hell of a lot more about the politics, history, culture, religions, and so on of these countries...eg. I believe that there are Israelis who are against their own Government..and surely not all Jews are necessarily Zionist anymore than all Muslims supppport Palestine or are rejectful of "Western decadance" and so on...to attack maybe in some circumstances, but ALL....I dont know..but these thoughts are generated somehow. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 3:53 PM Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes > Because you live in a priviliged capitalist nation you cannpot see that in > fact many see the attack as a legitimate strike back against US State > terrorism of Palestine, Iraq (which has been bombed with greater loss of > lives than the trade towers), Colombia, Pakistan, India, China, Vietnam, the > Sudan, the working people of the world, and so on: it is the "blunt edge " > if you like of the Class Struugle which contimues in whatever form......he's > not the only one who would want to attack Americans: there will be millions > especailly if the US continues its aggression. Richard. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcella Durand" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 2:12 AM > Subject: totally tasteless jokes > > > > Um...in regards to the below, my very best interpretation of > Selim's > > post was that it was an extremely creepy, broad and tasteless joke, and > one > > that I, and I would think most people here in NYC who just saw close to > > 7,000 people die useless, horrible deaths before their eyes, found pretty > > offensive. I mean, he certainly has the right to make "jokes"--you know, > > whatever tickles your funny bone--that and setting cats on fire--but to > have > > obtuse theorizing piled on top of the original "joke" kind of turns my > gut. > > Personally, the word "windbag" brings a smile to my lips more readily than > a > > threat to kill more human beings, no matter who's making the joke. > > > > M > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:44:05 -0400 > > > From: Poetics List Administration > > > Subject: Re: one self sin teared question > > > > > > Murat Nemet-Nejat writes: > > > > > > > The moderator of this list told me that he was very sensitive about > "ad > > > > hominem" attack (in response to a censored reaction of mine [....] I > > > supposed > > > > Sasq's post can not be considered "ad hominem" because it is a > menacing > > > to > > > > "everybody." Absolutely disgusting really. > > > > > > I'm not sure whether that last sentence is intended to take in the post > > > by "sasq" - Selim Abdul Sadiq - or my having forwarded to the list. In > > > any case, I'd like to make a few comments: > > > > > > 1. In general, I don't like to address my interactions with subscribers > > > here, for the obvious and historically verifiable reason that such > > > discussions > > > tend to initiate a recursive spiral of endless and recriminatory posts > to > > > the > > > List about the List. The situation is [A.] as dull as any public > squabble; > > > and [B.] by its tendency to a peculiarly school-boyish acerbity, tends > > > also > > > to make other subscribers reluctant to engage in the business of the > List: > > > which is Discussion. Since almost the entirety of my position here is to > > > maintain an atmosphere in which people feel that they can have "their > say" > > > without becoming the subject of personally-directed rhetorical > violence - > > > hence my use of the phrase 'ad hominem,' unfortunately gendered - These > > > consequences are detrimental. The post over which we disagreed, Murat, > > > fits very neatly into the category that I have elicited, since it was > one > > > in which you repeatedly characterized another subscriber as a "windbag" > > > and stated that s/he is guaranteed to express the "windbag point of > view." > > > My response to you was also very simple: the points you express in > > > relation > > > to the discussion are very welcome, but please express them without the > > > personal insult. In light of this response, I can't help remarking that > > > the term Censored is a bit inflated. > > > > > > 2. This morning on "The Connection," I listened to two very well-spoken > > > liberal men - the host, and a writer on the airline industry - discuss > the > > > 'unfortunate inevitability' of racial profiling in matters of national > and > > > especially airport security: "You can write well-intentioned memos > saying > > > that it shouldn't happen, but the bottom line is that it will take > place." > > > This brought to mind the number of times, crossing the border from > Canada > > > into the United States, that I have seen brown people standing beside > > > their > > > car as it is minutely searched by the border guards - in proportion to > the > > > few times - well, once in four years actually - that I have seen white > > > people in a similar situation. Apparently, it is easy to sympathize, so > > > long as we keep the "bottom line" firmly in place - though, in this > case, > > > "bottom line" makes a curious bridge between a pervasive financial > jargon > > > and the less widely-esteemed phrase "mud people." Perhaps in reacting to > > > Selim Abdul Sadiq's post, we might credit its author with an awareness > of > > > the "stereotype of complete ignorance and blind aggression" that is > > > generally attributed, in the U.S., to people of middle eastern descent; > > > let's go so far even as to impute an intimate awareness. Perhaps, given > an > > > apparent interest in the nuances of poetry, we might even credit its > > > author > > > too with the dexterity to momentarily own the disreputable stereotype in > > > order - having credited us with the dexterity to read this gesture - to > > > point out its terrible absurdity. But of course, this is all conjecture. > > > > > > Christopher W. Alexander > > > poetics list moderator > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 21:36:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ethan Paquin Subject: Stride Chapbook Series 2001 - Franz Wright, Charles Wright MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOW AVAILABLE FROM STRIDE BOOKS (www.stridebooks.co.uk) *Stride Americana Chapbook Series* Stride Books introduces its series of handsomely-designed chaps, appearing each spring and autumn, featuring never-before-seen and original work by renowned American poets. NOW AVAILABLE - FALL 2001 "HELL AND OTHER POEMS" Franz Wright 28 pp. $10.00 "NIGHT MUSIC" Charles Wright 24 pp. $10.00 COMING - SPRING 2002 Lyn Hejinian; other poets TBA. Send check or money order, payable to Stride Books, to Ethan Paquin, Advisory Editor, 85 Old Nashua Rd., Londonderry, NH 03053. contact: ethan@slope.org or editor@stridebooks.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:11:50 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Thank you, List! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marjorie. Happy birthday..keep those brilliant critical books coming...I'm 53 and I have to sit down to get me clothes on and so on .. good on you...Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marjorie Perloff" To: Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Thank you, List! > Well, when I first saw that Charles had posted news of my birthday, I > was mortified! I thought, oh God, now they will all know what an old > lady I am. However, everyone's wishes have been so heartwarming that > I'm grateful to Charles. Thanks to everybody who wrote! I don't really > feel that different but, as Joe (my husband) says, "Getting old means > having to sit down to put on your underwear...." Something like that > .... > > Love, > Marjorie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:22:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r....well versed.... Usually reliable Arabic Sources have just announced that Israel has given up. Millions of Jews, many of whom have lived in the Mid-East for hundred if not 1,000's of years, are fleeing. They are planing, carring, shipping, walking and swimming to Minnessota. All the usual Arabic governments have put out an urgent call for American Academics well versed in multi-culturism for the new reality......DRn.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 20:25:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: No WaR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear Kate we now have star wars so people would still be dead civilians even if no one showed up am aging former borderline hippie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 20:49:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ANASTASIOS KOZAITIS Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: <20010929151627.81045.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I along with friends have just started to call it "the thing". You know, pre-thing, post-thing. The day that "the thing" happened. At 08:16 AM 9/29/01 -0700, you wrote: >I am having the same question. Heard a very cogent >statement by the head of Reuters Global news service >on NPR (he sounded British) who talked about why they >are not using the term "terrorist" -- that it implies >a value judgement and doesn't even feel entirely >accurate. They use "hijackers." I myself don't feel >comfortable with the phrase "terror attacks" and I >don't even know why. I keep calling it "September 11" >or "the thing of September 11." Sometimes I say "the >attacks on NY" but even attacks sounds wrong and then >I am forgetting Washington and PA. > >Arielle > >--- claank design wrote: > > I keep hearing it referred to as 'the accident' to > > which I feel compelled to > > answer, no it was on purpose. That's the aspect > > which seems uncontainable > > by language. As in to contain, or gain control > > over. > > > > Andrea Baker > > > > > From: Ron Silliman > > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:31:20 -0400 > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: The language of our times > > > > > > One of the things that I've been pondering the > > past two-plus weeks, is the > > > way in which everybody, regardless of political > > persuasion, has referred to > > > the "events of September 11," the "recent > > incidents," etc. Very much as > > > though our language has yet to find a word or > > phrase that can encompass our > > > experience. > > > > > > Ron > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. >http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:23:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: The language of our times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/01 2:58:09 PM, ariellecg@YAHOO.COM writes: >I am having the same question. Heard a very cogent >statement by the head of Reuters Global news service >on NPR (he sounded British) who talked about why they >are not using the term "terrorist" -- that it implies >a value judgement and doesn't even feel entirely >accurate. They use "hijackers." I myself don't feel >comfortable with the phrase "terror attacks" and I >don't even know why. I keep calling it "September 11" >or "the thing of September 11." Sometimes I say "the >attacks on NY" but even attacks sounds wrong and then >I am forgetting Washington and PA. > >Arielle > What about "to september eleven." Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:19:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: October at the Kootenay School in Vancouver Comments: To: extension@runcible.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit October at or near The Kootenay School of Writing 201 – 505 Hamilton Street Vancouver BC Canada V6B 1H7 604-688-6001 All events are free unless otherwise stated. To register for seminars or reading groups, please call KSW. Subject, Power, Public Order & Security Sunday October 7 2pm at KSW An open forum on “Two Lectures” by Michel Foucault & “On Security and Terror” by Giorgio Agamben, prompted by the recent establishment of a Public Order Program by the RCMP, the problem of the criminalization of dissent, and more recent events. Investigating Standard English Sunday October 14 2pm at KSW The second in an ongoing reading group. Discussion of “the tired ways in which the standardized languages steadily fucked over the users of other forms” (Arjuna Parakrama, De-Hegemonizing Language Standards). Email for readings or more information about the group. “Creative” Writing, The Academy, & Other Institutionalizations Thursday October 18 5:30-7:30pm at SFU Harbour Centre A conversation with front-line practitioners Fred Wah, Lisa Robertson, Clint Burnham, Ashok Mathur, and Mark Cochrane. Bar Codes on TISH: Little Magazines, the Nation-State, & Global Capitalism Friday October 19 8pm at Capilano College A panel discussion with Frank Davey, Sharon Thesen, Jason Le Heup, Derek Beaulieu, Russ Rickey, Susan Clark & Michael Barnholden. “While it is not possible to get outside of one’s contemporary cultural formation any more than it is possible to get outside of culture, it should be possible to contest, dilute, hybridize or fracture that formation without undue hindrance from ‘arms length’ arts institutions.” – Frank Davey Ken Edwards: "The Two Poetries" Sunday October 21 2pm at KSW A talk by on the schism that arose in British poetry after the takeover of the Poetry Society in London in the 1970s by the avant-garde, with a discussion of the work of Allen Fisher. The Impossible Monday October 22 7:30pm at KSW The eating of one species by another is the simplest form of luxury. An inquiry into Georges Bataille’s notions of general economy & the impossible. Email for more information. Time Mechanix 16: "Towards a Trotskyist Poetics? The Example of Earle Birney" A talk by Louis Cabri. Thursday October 25 8pm at KSW (nb: not at Robson) Born in Calgary, 1904, raised in the Kootenays, Earle Birney established the first Trotskyist group in Western Canada and drafted policy documents for the founding body of Trotskyism in Canada. His singular trajectory from radical sectarian to canonical poet absorbs contradictions in a way that only a ‘Trotskyist poetics’ might resolve. The tenuous thread of radical Marxism in Canada, in its relation to poetic practice, particularly modernist form, begins, like it or not, with the example of Earle Birney. Ken Edwards: Reading New Poetry Friday, October 26 8pm at KSW $5/$3 Ken Edwards is a British writer & composer. His books include Lorca: an elegiac fragment, Tilth, Drumming & Poems, Intensive Care, Good Science: Poems 1983-1991, 3600 Weekends, Futures, & Glory Box. He is the editor & publisher of Reality Street Editions and plays violin with the new music ensemble COMA. Louis Cabri: “Liberalism equals the gulag” : negation & equivalency in Bruce Andrews’ I Don’t Have Any Paper So Shut Up (or, Social Romanticism) Saturday October 27 2pm at KSW Part of Studies in Practical Negation On a Greimasian grid of ‘late capitalism’, Andrews’ “social romanticism” projects the negative counterpart, and domestic equivalent, of Soviet socialist realism. High modernist precedents? Forget it! The order-word of order-words – change! – ever since the consolidation of the bourgeoisie, here is obstructed in every detail. This is a state novel for America. What Isn’t to be Undone? Sunday October 28 2pm at KSW The third Studies in Practical Negation seminar. An assessment of the scope of criticality in the writing of Bruce Andrews w/attention to Juliana Spahr’ s thesis that Confidence Trick (1981) disrupts naturalized whiteness through “continual mocking exposure of dominant identities.” Email vid@runcible.org for materials. The Kootenay School of Writing is a not-for-profit writer-run centre founded in 1984 to carry out counter-hegemonic writing practices in post-national, de-institutionalized, anti-professional and collaborative contexts. KSW hosts readings, talks and panels with visiting and local writers, offers free seminars and critical reading groups, publishes W magazine, and operates the Charles Watts Memorial Library, a collection of books, journals, audio & video recordings, and ephemera that document contemporary & 20th century rearticulatory writing. The centre offers a programme for people wishing to engage writing & politics without mentors, pedagogues, arts bureaucrats or other recuperators. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 00:01:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, It is easier for you, it appears to me, to have this admiration for the September elevening of New York city from New Zealand (I assume that's where you live); essentially, because you don't really believe that New Zealand would be the target of a future biological attack -not because of a political reason, but simply because New Zealand does not have enough concentration of population to make it a "cost effectivge" target. I wonder if you would post the same "revolutionary," "prophetic" ("the beginning of the end of capitalism," so on and so forth) posts if you were living in New York City. I am curious what kind of correlation there exists, among the people on the list, between their political attitudes towards the catastrophe and the population density of the place where they live. Can we run an informal poll on that? September 11 is, among other things, an attack on the idea of people living together as a community, in a large polis, an attack on the idea of modern (at least Western) urban living. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:09:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: ny times: Power of Poetry to Console In-Reply-To: <20010404225722.99768.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The New York Times: Monday October 01 The Eerily Intimate Power of Poetry to Console By DINITIA SMITH In the weeks since the terrorist attacks, people have been consoling themselves with poetry in an almost unprecedented way. Bits of famous poems, original poems, snatches of verse pinned alongside photos of the victims. In the weeks since the terrorist attacks, people have been consoling themselves and one another with poetry in an almost unprecedented way. Almost immediately after the event, improvised memorials often conceived around poems sprang up all over the city, in store windows, at bus stops, in Washington Square Park, Brooklyn Heights and elsewhere. And poems flew through cyberspace across the country in e-mails from friend to friend. On the day of the disaster, someone sent a copy of Shelley's "Ozymandias" to a circle of friends and suggested that if the World Trade Center were ever to be rebuilt, it should bear a plaque with the inscription "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:/ Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Copies of Auden's "September 1, 1939," written after Germany invaded Poland, were everywhere. "The unmentionable odour of death," Auden wrote, "Offends the September night." At Union Square Park, which had one of the biggest memorials, an American-Indian poem was pinned on the wire fence: "In the dawn I gathered cedar-boughs/ Sweet, sweet was their odor/ They were wet with tears/ The sweetness will not leave my hands." Another mourner put up lines from Yeats: "All the words that I utter,/ And all the words that I write,/ Must spread out their wings untiring,/ And never rest in their flight,/ Till they come where your sad, sad heart is." Three days after the attack, at a memorial service for the victims at the 92nd Street Y, David Yezzi, director of the Unterberg Poetry Center, read lines by the Israeli poet Yehuda Amichai: "This is the end of the landscape. Among blocks/ of concrete and rusting iron/ there's a fig tree with heavy fruit/ but even kids don't come around to pick it." The poet laureate of the United States, Billy Collins, said that since Sept. 11 he had been inundated with poems from friends poems by Yeats, by the Chilean poet Pablo Neruda, by the Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska all writers, he noted, from countries that have known war. "We, as innocents, as Americans, have never been invaded," Mr. Collins said. "We haven't produced a poetry that has much authority in this area." "With all of the neglect of poetry and the hand wringing about how other media have bulldozed poets," Mr. Collins said, "in times of crisis it's interesting that people don't turn to the novel or say, `We should all go out to a movie,' or, `Ballet would help us.' It's always poetry. What we want to hear is a human voice speaking directly in our ear." Mr. Collins compared the status of the poet in contemporary life to that of the goalie in hockey. "The goalie in hockey stands apart from others, marginalized," he said. "When all the skating and sliding around on the ice begins to fail us, the goalie is the poet." For 10 years Mr. Collins has been running a poetry program at the Katonah Public Library in Westchester County. On the Sunday after the disaster, Stephen Dunn, the poet, was the featured speaker. "We had well over 100 people," Mr. Collins said. "Normally 40 or 30 would be a respectable audience." Mr. Dunn began by reading one of his poems called "To a Terrorist": "For the historical ache, the ache passed down/ which finds its circumstances and becomes/ the present ache, I offer this poem/ without hope, knowing there's nothing,/ not even revenge, which alleviates/ a life like yours. . . ." But after that initial poem, Mr. Dunn announced that from then on he was going to read only love poems: "I am astounded/ by the various kisses we're capable of," he read, from his poem "Each From Different Heights." And reading love poems aloud in the midst of sorrow seemed just the right thing to do, Mr. Collins said. "I felt after the reading that he had provided a small counterweight to put on the other side of the dreadfully lopsided scale," he said. "It was a tiny weight in the other direction, the beginning of moving back to equilibrium." The poet Robert Pinsky, who is a former poet laureate of the United States, said he had also been showered with poems from friends, as well as by requests from various publications for poems in keeping with the general mood of mourning. On "The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer" right after the tragedy, Mr. Pinsky, who is a regular presence on the program, read Marianne Moore's "What Are Years?," a poem that has been passed frequently from person to person through e-mail in recent weeks. "What is our innocence,/ what is our guilt? All are/ naked, none is safe." "Poetry has an intimacy because it is in the reader's voice, in one person's breath," Mr. Pinsky said, echoing Mr. Collins. "We are in a culture of spectacle. With poetry, you say it aloud yourself, in your own voice." In ancient societies and even today in oral cultures, poetry has had a public function, as the repository of stories, genealogies, moral ideas and collective emotion. But in recent history, "the job of the poet has become more and more marginalized," said Bob Holman, a poet who has been involved in the spoken word movement, an effort to take poetry down from its pedestal. The poet has become "the player of words," he said, engaging mostly in high-level language games. But changes are occurring, said Mr. Holman, ever hopeful, "as our culture listens to language artistically and poetry becomes more democratized and participatory." He quoted from a poem by William Carlos Williams: "It is difficult/ to get the news from poems/ yet men die miserably every day/ for lack/ of what is found there." "I think we are fulfilling William Carlos Williams's poem," Mr. Holman said. "We are finding the news in poetry." [from http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nyt/20011001/en/the_eerily_intimate_power_of_ poetry_to_console_1.html] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 00:19:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wrong, not only in Western urban sense: whether is Gaza or in Jerusalem or in New york City, etc., terrorism is a violent act against people coming together, whether for street demonstrations or day to day living. Seen from that angle, may be, we can use the word "terrorist" fairly, both as an act against the East and the West, avoiding the cringing self rigtheousness -justified in this case- of the American media/political language. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:24:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** FERLINGHETTI Oct 15 Benefit & AUSTER Oct 18 Oppen Lecture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * * * P L E A S E N O T E * * * Advance tickets are highly recommended for two back-to-back events coming up fast: Monday October 15, LAWRENCE FERLINGHETTI will give a rare hometown solo reading to Benefit the Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives, 7:30 pm at historic Fugazi Hall (aka Club Fugazi) in North Beach. Tickets are $7-12, with choice VIP seating for $25. All proceeds go to benefit the Poetry Center (in particular, to support digitization of rare tapes in the American Poetry Archives, 1954-present.) Call Club Fugazi box office to reserve tickets: (415) 421-4222. Call now! Thursday October 18, PAUL AUSTER will deliver the 17th annual George Oppen Memorial Lecture in Twentieth Century Poetics, speaking on Charles Reznikoff, 7:30 pm at the ODC Theater. Seating is limited. Tickets are $7 (SFSU students & Poetry Center members are free, but must reserve tickets & show student ID or membership card at the box office). Call the theater box office to reserve tickets: (415) 863-9834. * * * A solo reading to benefit The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives LAWRENCE FERLINGHETTI Monday October 15 7:30 pm (door opens 6:30), $7-12 donation; $25 limited VIP seats @ Club Fugazi 678 Green Street (aka Beach Blanket Babylon Blvd; between Columbus & Powell, North Beach) =46ugazi Box Office (415) 421-4222 * * * The George Oppen Memorial Lecture in Twentieth Century Poetics PAUL AUSTER Thursday October 18 7:30 pm (door opens 7:00), $7 donation Special Location @ ODC Theater (3153 17th Street at Shotwell) ODC Box Office (415) 863-9834 * * * ALSO COMING UP: for details http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit October 11 Claudia Rankine & Linda Norton October 25 Bill Berkson & Vincent Katz October 27 Mark Nowak & Allison Hedge Coke November 2 Bernadette Mayer & Jack Collom November 10 Alice Notley November 29 Pierre Joris =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 00:30:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Ambridge Fundamentalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/01 3:06:11 PM, david.bircumshaw@NTLWORLD.COM writes: >Those of who you who know the series (being broadcast as I write) will > >appreciate the sublime incongruity of the rural small talk and never-never > >village idyll (it takes place 'in between' the borders of Warwickshire >and > >Worcestershire) and the mullahs from the dessicated hills. > > Maybe it is not that surprising. Isn't the logical consequence of bin Laden's terroristic methods a world utopia of little villages? Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 21:39:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: The language of our times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit something that interests me here is that only three weeks after the 'event' the media seems to have succeeded to some extent in 'blanding' down the whole thing into consumable bits that fit into news slots. I hope it's not on it's way to becoming another advertising wave of McDonald's toys. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "tracy shaun ruggles" > I seem to be stuck in using "after it all started happening" when referring > to things I did that that day or soon after. And, now just "the thing on > the 11th". I have a friend whose birthday is that day. Another who was > coming out of a concussion from a fall the night before wondering if she was > still dreaming. > > It's all fairly name-less. Maybe it's because the media and marketing > machines have gotten so good at subverting the language for fast > thought-transfers. Anything that we name now seems to be "false" because it > sounds like someone in the media came up with it. > > This disturbs me now... that a an amorphous system like the media can so > control our language that we (or at least I) feel uncomfortable naming > things. Has it always been this way? Or is this event, the thing on the > 11th, really so hard to distill? Or, does this event bring to light the > "violence of naming" (such a strange phrase now)? Naming it seems to reduce > it. It is such a tangled web that any name becomes limiting and makes > invisible some other important part that we don't want to forget... > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:17:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII --- 1 because wine and sex is all there is 2 we're just here at whatever age, 3 we sense the terror everywhere, 4 but the earth will survive 5 incandescent heat and plasma 6 steps us through anything into void, 7 this letter 'i' doesn't see the terror, 8 nothing ever will 9 you've got to drink and fuck all night long 10 and look into each other's eyes and scream, 11 you've got to carry on, there's not long, 12 in the new story, it's the same old story 13 the terror's in the very way we walk 14 but we claw naked down the hall in hell, 15 return to heaven, fuck hard and raw, 16 drink our fill again, then crawl and scream 17 the candle burns, rains fall, the sun eclipse, 18 the day grows dark, heaves light, we're drinking hard, 19 and drunk we know it's just the same old story, 20 until death parts us, even now we don't know when === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:04:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: Ugh post of Gary Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear Gary, We had a similar experience in another list that I'm on, this one is devoted to fans of the pop singer Kylie Minogue, and in the hours after the bombings in NY and DC, it became clear that many on the list were very happy to see the TV news and to find out so many had died. Ordinarily the list is filled with trivia and fan effusions, endless threads about "Will Kylie's New Single Make #1" "Kylie vs Posh," "Will EMI Ever Release Kylie's Duet with Bono" et cetera, but because Kylie is well known in most parts of the world she has many Muslim fans too, from the fundamentalist countries, and soon our board was filled with new threads saying, "America Deserves This" and so forth. Largely these were written by very young people, 14, 15, 16 years old, but also from people in their 20s and 30s, from many countries. These expressions of glee then became the subject of intense debate on the board, from the US and UK fans who wanted the moderator to ban the worst offenders, to others who while deploring the untimely expression, pleaded that the fundamentalist (perhaps the "Taliban") position be given a chance to speak. One New Yorker outraged by the "America Deserves This" went ballistic so to speak and pronounced a fatwa on all Muslims world wide. The next day he retracted this, said he spoke out of fear, rage, and grief because so many of his friends had died in World Trade Center. In the weeks since all sides have continued to quarrel, make up, broker peace, renege on agreements, -- then of course there are the above-it-all types who claim that "This is a group where we all love Kylie Minogue! Can't we all just be happy that she has reached #1 again with her biggest hit to date?" This issue still has not been worked out to everyone's satisfaction. But actually take it all in all I have found a quality of progressive thought and discussion on the Kylie list that is easily the equal of the quality on the Poetics List, and I imagine this is true of others and the other Lists they also belong to. I only bring this up because, this was a case in which, instead of 1 threatening post, which we now think was a hoax or satire of some kind, there were literally scores of such messages and they represented in toto quite a shock to the system, and I'm not even in NY unlike you my dear pal!!! See you soon . . . xxx Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 00:03:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: posting to Poetics list (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed What about about the "Objects" and "Food" sections from Gertrude Stein's _Tender Buttons_. Also, Williams has lots of poems that fall into this category; one of my favorites is "The Rose" from _Spring and All_, but there are plenty of others, too numerous to mention. Mark DuCharme >From: Robert M Corbett >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: posting to Poetics list (fwd) >Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:57:43 -0700 > >List, > >A friend asked me to post this request to the Poetics list. You can reply >directly to her if you have any suggestions. > >thanks, >Robert > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:29:56 -0700 >From: Diana George >To: Robert Corbett >Subject: posting to Poetics list > > Hey, would you post this to the Poetics list? I have to make a class >proposal for winter term this week. > >I am going to teach a writing class called "The Thing in the Text," and I'm >looking for suggestions for what to put on the syllabus. The idea for the >class came from an essay by Wayne Koestenbaum, called "Darling's Prick >Passages." Koestenbaum writes about the end of Genet's _Our Lady of the >Flowers_ (where Genet writes about a prisoner who put his penis on a paper >and traced its outline, and sent the letter to his girlfriend): this is >Koestenbaum: "I don't want to write 'about' the prick, I want to write the >prick." > >So I want to take up things and thingliness in writing (not necessarily >pricks). I am not interested in beating unsuspecting students about the >head >with the "truth" that referentiality is impossible. Which is true enough >but >a bit boring. I'm more interested in just looking at how some texts grapple >with things. The texts I have in mind are Zola's _The Ladies' Paradise_, >Ben >Marcus' _Age of Wire and String_, maybe some Beckett, a story from Brian >Evenson's _Contagion_. I would like to include some poems on the syllabus. >I >'d appreciate any suggestions. > >Diana George (diana_oysterville@hotmail.com) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:01:35 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Fw: Masthead extra Comments: To: ImitaPo , PoetryEspresso@topica.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (For'arded at the request of Alison Croggon) David Bircumshaw Leicester, England A Chide's Alphabet www.chidesplay.8m.com Painting Without Numbers www.paintstuff.20m.com/default.htm http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/default.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:17 AM Subject: Masthead extra > (Apologies for cross posting) > > A couple of tardy arrivals to the Masthead special issue - American terror: > writings in the immediate aftermath > > James Graham's hallucinatory evocation of NY post disaster, DELIRIUM > TREMENS NY, plus more photos > > Indonesian journalist Goenawa Mohamed's experience of being in the city > when the disaster happened, ONE DAY IN NEW YORK > > Rip Bulkley's poem VICE VERSA > > plus a much classier version of Anastasios Kozaitis's poem wtc11 - > > not to mention the rest - poems and prose from those near and far > > all available now at http://au/geocities.com/masthead_2/ > > Best > > Alison > > > > Alison Croggon > > Home page > http://users.bigpond.com/acroggon/ > Masthead > http://au.geocities.com/masthead_2/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 08:26:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Stickney Subject: What is to be Done? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let's not forget - Rushdie is a long time victim of the same fanatical = intolerance that produced the Sept. 11th attacks on the United States. Fighting the Forces of Invisibility=20 By Salman Rushdie Tuesday, October 2, 2001; Page A25=20 NEW YORK -- In January 2000 I wrote in a newspaper column that "the = defining struggle of the new age would be between Terrorism and = Security," and fretted that to live by the security experts' worst-case = scenarios might be to surrender too many of our liberties to the = invisible shadow-warriors of the secret world. Democracy requires = visibility, I argued, and in the struggle between security and freedom = we must always err on the side of freedom. On Tuesday, Sept. 11, = however, the worst-case scenario came true. They broke our city. I'm among the newest of New Yorkers, but even = people who have never set foot in Manhattan have felt its wounds deeply, = because New York is the beating heart of the visible world, = tough-talking, spirit-dazzling, Walt Whitman's "city of orgies, walks = and joys," his "proud and passionate city -- mettlesome, mad, = extravagant city!" To this bright capital of the visible, the forces of = invisibility have dealt a dreadful blow. No need to say how dreadful; we = all saw it, are all changed by it. Now we must ensure that the wound is = not mortal, that the world of what is seen triumphs over what is = cloaked, what is perceptible only through the effects of its awful = deeds. In making free societies safe -- safer -- from terrorism, our civil = liberties will inevitably be compromised. But in return for freedom's = partial erosion, we have a right to expect that our cities, water, = planes and children really will be better protected than they have been. = The West's response to the Sept. 11 attacks will be judged in large = measure by whether people begin to feel safe once again in their homes, = their workplaces, their daily lives. This is the confidence we have = lost, and must regain.=20 Next: the question of the counterattack. Yes, we must send our = shadow-warriors against theirs, and hope that ours prevail. But this = secret war alone cannot bring victory. We will also need a public, = political and diplomatic offensive whose aim must be the early = resolution of some of the world's thorniest problems: above all the = battle between Israel and the Palestinian people for space, dignity, = recognition and survival. Better judgment will be required on all sides = in future. No more Sudanese aspirin factories to be bombed, please. And = now that wise American heads appear to have understood that it would be = wrong to bomb the impoverished, oppressed Afghan people in retaliation = for their tyrannous masters' misdeeds, they might apply that wisdom, = retrospectively, to what was done to the impoverished, oppressed people = of Iraq. It's time to stop making enemies and start making friends. To say this is in no way to join in the savaging of America by sections = of the left that has been among the most unpleasant consequences of the = terrorists' attacks on the United States. "The problem with Americans is = . . . " -- "What America needs to understand . . . " There has been a = lot of sanctimonious moral relativism around lately, usually prefaced by = such phrases as these. A country which has just suffered the most = devastating terrorist attack in history, a country in a state of deep = mourning and horrible grief, is being told, heartlessly, that it is to = blame for its own citizens' deaths. ("Did we deserve this, sir?" a = bewildered worker at "ground zero" asked a visiting British journalist = recently. I find the grave courtesy of that "sir" quite astonishing.)=20 Let's be clear about why this bien-pensant anti-American onslaught is = such appalling rubbish. Terrorism is the murder of the innocent; this = time, it was mass murder. To excuse such an atrocity by blaming U.S. = government policies is to deny the basic idea of all morality: that = individuals are responsible for their actions. Furthermore, terrorism is = not the pursuit of legitimate complaints by illegitimate means. The = terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true = motives. Whatever the killers were trying to achieve, it seems = improbable that building a better world was part of it. The fundamentalist seeks to bring down a great deal more than buildings. = Such people are against, to offer just a brief list, freedom of speech, = a multi-party political system, universal adult suffrage, accountable = government, Jews, homosexuals, women's rights, pluralism, secularism, = short skirts, dancing, beardlessness, evolution theory, sex. These are = tyrants, not Muslims. (Islam is tough on suicides, who are doomed to = repeat their deaths through all eternity. However, there needs to be a = thorough examination, by Muslims everywhere, of why it is that the faith = they love breeds so many violent mutant strains. If the West needs to = understand its Unabombers and McVeighs, Islam needs to face up to its = bin Ladens.) United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan has said that = we should now define ourselves not only by what we are for but by what = we are against. I would reverse that proposition, because in the present = instance what we are against is a no-brainer. Suicidist assassins ram = wide-bodied aircraft into the World Trade Center and Pentagon and kill = thousands of people: um, I'm against that. But what are we for? What = will we risk our lives to defend? Can we unanimously concur that all the = items in the above list -- yes, even the short skirts and dancing -- are = worth dying for?=20 The fundamentalist believes that we believe in nothing. In his = world-view, he has his absolute certainties, while we are sunk in = sybaritic indulgences. To prove him wrong, we must first know that he is = wrong. We must agree on what matters: kissing in public places, bacon = sandwiches, disagreement, cutting-edge fashion, literature, generosity, = water, a more equitable distribution of the world's resources, movies, = music, freedom of thought, beauty, love. These will be our weapons. Not = by making war but by the unafraid way we choose to live shall we defeat = them.=20 How to defeat terrorism? Don't be terrorized. Don't let fear rule your = life. Even if you are scared. Salman Rushdie is a British novelist and essayist. Distributed by NYT Special Features =A9 2001 The Washington Post Company=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:01:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pattie McCarthy Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think, first, maybe the question has to be : & where were those Eastern European Jews coming from ? & what options had they before them in 1948 (& before 1948) ? before we consider what happened when they got to Israel, maybe we shld consider the situation before Israel. second, I'm not sure I understand what you mean exactly by "Polandization." but Poland after WW2 doesn't seem to be a successful model for anything -- mainly b/c there was no Poland, really, (merely a "Poland") after WW2. to say that it "worked" b/c it created an "ethnically pure" Poland & Germany seems strange to me (& not exactly true, as Poland is not, was not, ethnically homogenous). I thank you for your thought-provoking post & I do not have an answer to the question "Is this any less ethnic cleansing than what Hitler did in Poland to the jews?" except to say let's look at the method. & the ultimate goal. was the method in Nazereth like Hitler's method in Poland ? was the goal extinction ? perhaps I am too sensitive to comparisons like these. yours, Pattie McCarthy In a message dated 10/1/01 4:14:26 PM, saudade@WORLDNET.ATT.NET wrote: < Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FANTASY (1994) A sudden shift in intensity. . . Triggered by. . . Bogged down. . . Nearby. . . Upset. . . Incomplete focus. . . "Continued build up of troops In the area. . ." Took it out of fragments. . . Blocked empathy. . . Short circuited connections. . . In pieces. . . Could have been. . . Out of. . . Habituated. . . Now for a stroll. . . Climate control. . . What in an image could illustrate. . . The state I am trying to describe. . . At the border of a fantasy. . . I have internalized. . . Clink of utensils in a dininghall . . . Now can almost remember. . . He or she had built it out of snatches. . . Of memories none of which were intact. . . Not only the memory but the event itself. . . Was composed of such small parts. . . Yes, I have drawn it to their attention . . . That's the sound of a plane going by. . . Primordial interruption. . . Yet the assessment was out of control. . . Not only those aspects our office was responsible for. . . Also, I could only hear a few words. . . Of each exchange because the radio was on loud. . . I couldn't say anything. . . Previous to its being seen. . . A bridge from the beginnings. . . To this part. . . Somebody wants or wanted to start explaining. . . Naturally I couldn't take over at this point. . . Something moving through here. . . By no means certain. . . Like a few frames in a moving picture. . . I stood there embarrassed. . . More feeling than I would like to admit. . . Her way of presenting a kind of self-conscious understanding. . . Yet no one could have been sure. . . It would turn out this way. . . America-the land of sleep walkers. . . Tuned continuously to the latest dreams. . . Intricately constructed from tragic facts. . . Now hear this. . . No one must awaken. . . You heard it first right here. . . The nascent sound of a motorcar. . . Yes, that voice was emphatic. . . The first was indifferent. . . Moved here as soon as she was moved here. . . Tremulous. . .awkward . . .endearing. . .mumbling. . . As luck would have it they could now repair. . . My latest words were far from coherent. . . I wouldn't have given it up for the world. . . But she was suspicious. . . No one talked to her that way before. . . As you leave, notice the small stairway to your left. . . Viewed from that perspective, I might wonder. . . Take it or leave it. . . Then again. . .you might say. . .alternatively Without comfort, or in a temperate zone. . . As good as disappeared...now, anyway, invisible. . . 30 day moneyback guarantee. . . Yours for the asking. . . Yet had you waited another month. . . Perhaps only a week or two. . . That lulling feeling of compensation fading. . . Sleep rising from the bottom of hollow tears. . . Voices so recognizable, yet only a few words. . . This is the kind of time you had imagined. . . Not truly measurable, yet what was its importance. . . Irreplaceable. . . Originally published in Avec #8 1994 and in Light Street (Zasterle) 1996 Nick Piombino ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:29:25 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria I think that recent events have shown that being in the USA does not necessarily provide safety. That does not mean that it is a particularly dangerous place to be. (A number of north Americans have remarked to me recently that they feel worried about being in London now - after a lifetime of things exploding I don't feel particularly worried; but there is nowhere safe except relatively Many of the *Jews who are in Israel now *left USA; many had the opportunity to go to USA and chose not to I am concerned about the safety of the Palestinians who were *not in any great danger until this dangerous and immoral experiment was embarked upon I am all for safety. I am all for all perceived ethnic groups being treated equally. I am against privileging one group over another in safety or in anything else... I think that I picked up the phrase "abandon Israel"... Concentrating on it now, I would say that it is time for USA and UK to stop arming that Israel and to practice some of that "linkage" which seeks to be practiced on racial grounds - unsafe and rubbish safe havens for Kurds and th armoury of hell for Israelis The support anyone is given, particularly military support, should be contingent upon behaviour. The support given to Israel is often used to maim and kill Palestinians regardless of their behaviour. Milosevic is charged, Sharon is not Before, there is any talk of removing people to USA, let's remember that in the main the borders of Israel have been conceded although there hasn't been a proper reciprocationby Israel. If the 1/5th of a million Israelis now occupuying land which is not within Israel were to remove themselves to Israel, there could well be peace. That is not to say the peace will be absolute. There never will be absolute peace anywhere. But there could be something fairly near it. I see no reason why there should not. It should certainly be tried. L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: 01 October 2001 22:19 Subject: Re: Israel | i for one would be happy to airlift all Jews --and anyone else who'd like | to come along --in Israel to the united states and *then* allow the US to | "abandon Israel." but i don't think they'd all want to come. Israel was | an experiment that does not seem to have worked, but before abandoning it | there must be some situation whereby Jews can live in safety. | | At 2:28 AM +0100 9/29/01, Lawrence Upton wrote: | >----- Original Message ----- | >From: "Kenneth M. Dauber" | >To: | >Sent: 28 September 2001 21:02 | >Subject: Israel | > | > | >| The only thing everybody seems to agree on is that, whatever cause it has | >| been in leading to the attacks of September 11, the United States' policy | >| in relation to Israel needs to be changed. It is hard, however, to | >| understand what, in justice, this means. | > | >No, it's very easy... | > | >for the rest of what you say, I got an uneasy sense of deja vu.I'm sure I | >have read all that before. Many times. Many many times | > | >| and what Arafat rejected | >| by launching his second intifada, without so much as a negotiation for a | >| better deal. | > | >Well, that's the word from Israel. Me, I say maybe. I'd also say that the | >Palestinians could do a lot better than Arafat and what he may or may not do | >does not alter the injustice of their situation. I mean I don't judge | >USAmericans by their Presidents and they get some kind of choice while | >there's no real choice for the Palestinians; and I'd be totally pissed off | >if you judged me on the basis of Tony Blair | > | > We need to be reminded that a Palestinian state alongside of | >| Israel was what all the Arab nations rejected in '48, | > | >& we need to be reminded that the Israeli state had no business being there; | >it was a cuckoo | > | >But Israel is very strong, courtesy in part of USA and to a lesser extent UK | > | >As a result, many but not all, I agree, have conceded the existence of | >Israel, but that's a response to its power not its legitimacy... in addition | >there now could be no justice if those who have been born since the | >establishment of the state of israel were just uprooted | > | >BUT bringing up the resistance post 1948 is not relevant. of course the | >arabs resisted. What would you expect them to do? Now there is a desire for | >a settlement on the basis of the internationally-agreed borders. It doesn't | >look as though Israel wants to settle... I'd raise the internationally | >agreed borders and that 200000 squatters the wrong side of it | > | >| they controlled all of the West Bank and Gaza, where they preferred | >keeping | >| the Palestinians in miserable refugee camps to a genuine Palestinian | >| homeland, | > | >excuse me? They had a genuine homeland. It was full of people who had | >immigrated from all over the world in defiance of the decision of those who | >ruled Palestine until 1948 and later on the basis of race | > | >The American and Australian first peoples have been blamed for their own | >misery which had been visited upon them by invading foreigners | > | >resulting in another war when Israel rejected Nasser's call to | >| "push them to the sea"; and it is what Arafat continues to reject, both | >| overtly and by refusing to reign in the absolutely rejectionist Hizbollah | > | >rein in... I doubt he can; but that has nothing to do with the wrongness of | >the theft of Palestinian land. Nor is it fair to keep quoting only the most | >extreme statements. A few weeks ago we had a report here with the most awful | >frightening things being shouted by Israelis about Arabs - but one doesn't | >assume that represents all their views all the time | > | >What Nasser shouted at time of war needs to be read in that context. | > | >| and Hamas, who, also overtly, say they want no Jews living anywhere from | >| the Jordan to the Mediterranean. | > | >which is not justifiable; but one can see how they came to that state of | >mind | > | >| It's convenient to blame Israel for the state of Arab and Palestinian | >| suffering in the Middle East and to romanticize Arafat as a freedom | >| fighter. | > | >those are two quite separate things and it confuses the issue to mix them up | > | > But even in relation to their own people, Arafat and the | >| Palestinian Authority have behaved like a bunch of thugs an crooks, | >| squirreling away into Swiss bank accounts the millions upon millions of | >| dollars that have poured into them from the United States, as a result of | >| the Oslo accords, and from the Arab oil nations, instead of using them to | >| create a Palestinian economy, and preventing almost any freedom of dissent | >| with repression and murder. | > | >I get that deja vu again. You haven't mentioned Sabra and Shatila... and | >Southern Lebanon... using "the millions upon millions of dollars that have | >poured into [Israel] from the United States" | > | >| Let the PA's praise as martyrs of suicide blowing up of restaurants and | >| discotechs stop; let the PA's state media stop demonizing Israelis as they | >| do in the most conventional anti-Jewish fashion (pictures of Jews with | >long | >| noses and all); | > | >*state media? yes, I think they should declare a state; and a capital | > | > let Arafat start telling his people, in Arabic, that they | >| must accept an independent Israel as a now and forever fact, whether they | >| like it or not; | > | >"Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given | >unto you, as I said unto Moses. | >4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river | >Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the | >going down of the sun, shall be your coast. | >5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy | >life " | > | >One of the most attractive things about US culture is the racial melting pot | >and I am confused by USAmericans who will both see that as positive in their | >own country and yet resist the concept in Palestine with such | >self-destructive passion | > | > | >L | ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:13:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Interview with leader of Afghanistan Labour Revol. Org. In-Reply-To: <618775.3210948880@ny-chicagost2a-78.buf.adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought this could interest the list -- Pierre << Interview with Afghani Left Revolutionary * Talban has lost all support, they will loose power very soon by: Farooq Tariq (25-09-2001) [A special interview with Adil, leader of Afghanistan Labour Revolutionary Organization Adil is leader of a small left wing organization based in Afghanistan. He is himself in exile. He was in Jilalabad for three days from 16 to 19th September to see the mood and to instruct his party men for the future strategy. It was an illegal entry to Afghanistan. Here is a special report on the present situation in Afghanistan based on his interview with Farooq Tariq taken at Lahore on 24th September. Farooq Tariq General secretary of the Labour Party Pakistan (see: www.labourpakistan.org)] * Talban has lost all support, they will loose power very soon * Asama has at least 25000 Islamic militants * Left and Right unite to support former King Zahir Shah, * Every one who has enough money for travel to Pakistan is leaving. I traveled to Afghanistan on 16th September and reached Jilalabad. The town was in absolute shock conditions. Everyone from there was talking to leave Afghanistan as soon as possible. To reach to Peshawar, you need at least 200,000 Afghanis ($2). Then you need another $5 to bribe the Pakistan official at the border to cross. So any one who has this amount is leaving. An average wage of an Afghani government clerk for instance at present is around 300,000 Afghanis ($3) per month. A daily worker in Jilalabad would get around Afghani 10,000 to 20,000 ($0.10 to$0.20) per day. So there is tremendous poverty in all parts of Afghanistan. Wages are not normally paid up to 6 months. People are sick and tired of Talban regime. They can not say it openly but now are very sure the regime is going to go away. Most of the shops and the trading companies were closed in Jilalabad. No one wants to do any business in the city. It is more like a deserted city. On Talban military power There are around 20,000 military men at the disposal of Talban. They have lost their best friend Pakistan, so their military assistance is in trouble. On the contrary, there are over 25000 military men with Asama. They belong to China, Algeria, Nigeria and many other Arab countries apart from Pakistan. When Talban say they will not hand over Asama to Americans, it has nothing to do with their courage or their service to Islam, they are unable to hand him over as Asama has more Islamic militants than the Talbaan. On the Popularity of Talbaan They have lost support in absolute terms. The people I spoke in Jilalabad are openly against the Talban. I think it is only Talibs (the militant students) who support them. No one else support them in Afghanistan. They are the most unpopular regime in Afghanistan hi story. If American comes here they will loose power not so much of the attack but more because they have no social basis. It is not like the situation when Russians came to Afghanistan. There were a lot of people in Afghanistan opposing them. Also Americans and Pakistan was against them. But the situation is totally different. Talbaan can not fight with American for long time. They can not hide for long time. They are doomed to loose power. Talban are most vicious and brutal government of all time. We oppose them from the beginning. But American and Pakistan have supported them from the beginning. They say it today that Talban government is no good, we are saying it from the day first. Three trends within Talbaan There are three trends within the hierarchy of Talbaan regime. One is the most fundamentalist who are totally opposed to the handing Talbaan over to American. One big group is in favor of handing Asama to American. The third one is balancing the two groups. It is the third group, which has prevailed recently in its decision that Asama should leave voluntarily. The problem is that all the three groups are smaller than the army of Asama is. Asama is the real ruler of Afghanistan and not the Talbaan. On Northern Front There are mix people in the Northern Front. Abdul Rashid Dostum who heads Junbash Milli Islamia (Islamic National Movement) was a close ally of Babrak Karmal and Dr. Najib ullah, the former rulers of Afghanistan with the support of Russians. He is not fundamentalist and represents Uzbak and Turkmenistan people of Afghanistan. Another component party of Northern Front is the party of Professor Siaf, s Itehad Islami Afghanistan (Afghanistan Islamic Unity). This is the most fundamentalist party of the Front. Then there is Ahmed Shah party Shoora Nizaar (Islamic Association). The same people who did The 11th September event killed him on 9th September. Ahmed Shah Massod was killed because the people of Asama knew that he is the only capable person who can lead a resistance after the 11th September. He was supported by many Western powers already. He was a religious fanatic but recently ha had changed his position to right wing ideas. Hizb Wahdat Islami is another party, which is part of the Northern Alliance. NF is in full preparations to attack the Talbaan. There have been fights at Mazar Sharif after 11th September. 80 Talbaan dead and 200 arrested. The fight is still going on so Talbaan can loose Mezar Sharif very soon. Ex general Doostam have got some Western support already and he is moving forward. On ex King Zahir Shah He is an 89-year-old ex king who seemed to get the support of all the parties in Afghanistan apart from Talbaan. The flag of Zahir Shah party Are seen every where in Peshawar at least. This black, Red and green color flags. Our party at this time supports him for a transitional period. The American plan is to hand him powers after the fall of Talbaan and then he can call elections in one-year time. But it clears that he will not be able to solve the problems of the people. There is a Persian saying that the "bad" is in power and there are some good coming out of it, it is not that bad. So we have no other choice apart from supporting him for a transitional period. On American military intervention We are totally opposed to American military intervention. But we are in favor of an immediate ending of Talbaan government. The situation is like this that American was bringing up a dog who has now gone mad. It is the responsibility of American to control or kill the mad dog. We will do our part to haunt down this mad dog which is dangerous for the Afghan people. Talbaan were supported indirectly or directly by the Americans and Pakistan in the hope of stabilizing Afghanistan but the situation has gone out of their control. On Shelter International This NGO was providing over bread to over 3 million Afghanis. The Talbaan regime arrested them for no reasons. The food is gone. People are suffering now. This has even added to the misery of the people and more hatred against the Talbaan government. They wanted to control the NGO, s working in Afghanistan. This has not gone well among the normal Afghanis. Adil told that every one is sick and tired of Talbaan regime. They are sick of the war. There is lot people waiting for the end of this government. I do not see any possibility of Talbaan remaining in power for a longer time. American strategy is to bring Zahir Shah into power. He has already got the support of Northern Alliance and other Left and right parties. We are waiting for the day to go back to Afghanistan. [Interview by Farooq Tariq, General secretary, Labour Party Pakistan -- For a Democratic Socialist Pakistan www.labourpakistan.org ] >> ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 POASIS: Selected Poems 1986-1999 Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 go to: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/poasis.htm Email: joris@ albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 07:52:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: journal edresses? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20011001123512.010d0100@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I'm looking for email addresses for anyone at the following journals: Limes Times Nine Big Allis Thanks! Backchannel! Arielle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 11:04:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Freedom of Speech at the Walt Whitman, Oct 26 Comments: To: whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu, wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION READING: ONE HUNDRED DAYS FRIDAY, OCTOBER 26, 7:30 PM FREE The Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center is pleased to present several authors whose work appeared in the 100 Days Anthology, a literary journal created in response to the first one hundred days of the Bush presidency. In light of current events, the reading's focus has been expanded to include freedom of speech and expression, among other topics of importance that have emerged since the September 11 attacks and its aftermath. Featured authors include: ANSELM BERRIGAN, PATRICK HERRON, JORDAN DAVIS, ALICIA ASKENASE, ALISON COBB, hassen, and BRIAN HENRY I am still interested in having more contributors of 100 Days at the event. Contact me soon if you would like to read. Please spread the word about this 'of the essence' reading. Hope to see you there. Gratefully, Alicia Askenase Literary Program Director WWCAC, Camden, NJ 856-964-8300 email: wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org, askealicia@aol.com web: www.waltwhitmancenter.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:46:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: housepress/derek beaulieu Subject: please check this out submit and pass along! thank you! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > The current editors of existere quarterly are attempting to move what has > > heretofore been a literary and art publication with limited circulation onto > > the national artistic scene. Each issue will be distributed by the Canadian > > Magazine Publishers Association. This arrangement not only provides > > guaranteed sales (and therefore revenue), but also allows for the magazine > > to be distributed nationally, appearing in such recognizable book stores as > > Indigo, Chapters and Smith Books, on top of being on the shelves of > > university bookstores across the country. We are looking for innovative and > > engaging prose, poetry, and visual art, w/ a special attention paid to works > > that examine language (language, that is, in the most broad sense) that > > engages in examining the nature of what it means to operate linguistic > > machines in an environment that is post-symbolic logic. The deadline is > > Oct. 15 (but to a certain degree this may be flexible). existere@yorku.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:09:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cinthia jasper Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes In-Reply-To: <002101c14963$7272ca40$622437d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This was definitely a terrorist attack. let's call it what it is- horrible shameful crime against humanity. we owe that to the dead, at the very least. from Terrorism Research Center terrorism.com Definitions Terrorism by nature is difficult to define. Acts of terrorism conjure emotional responses in the victims (those hurt by the violence and those affected by the fear) as well as in the practioners. Even the U.S. government cannot agree on one single definition. The old adage, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is still alive and well. Listed below are several definitions of terrorism. For the purposes of the Terrorism Research Center, we have adopted the definition used by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Terrorism is the use or threatened use of force designed to bring about political change. --Brian Jenkins Terrorism consitutes the illegitimate use of force to achieve a political objective when innocent people are targeted. --Walter Laqueur Terrorism is the premeditated, deliberate, systematic murder, mayhem, and threatening of the innocent to create fear and intimidation in order to gain a political or tactical advantage, usually to influence an audience. --James M. Poland Terrorism is the unlawful use or threat of violence against persons or property to further political or social objectives. It is usually intended to intimidate or coerce a government, individuals or groups, or to modify their behavior or politics. --Vice-President's Task Force, 1986 Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. --FBI Definition cheryl burket ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- "richard.tylr" wrote: > Because you live in a priviliged capitalist nation > you cannpot see that in > fact many see the attack as a legitimate strike back > against US State > terrorism of Palestine, Iraq (which has been bombed > with greater loss of > lives than the trade towers), Colombia, Pakistan, > India, China, Vietnam, the > Sudan, the working people of the world, and so on: > it is the "blunt edge " > if you like of the Class Struugle which contimues in > whatever form......he's > not the only one who would want to attack Americans: > there will be millions > especailly if the US continues its aggression. > Richard. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcella Durand" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 2:12 AM > Subject: totally tasteless jokes > > > > Um...in regards to the below, my very best > interpretation of > Selim's > > post was that it was an extremely creepy, broad > and tasteless joke, and > one > > that I, and I would think most people here in NYC > who just saw close to > > 7,000 people die useless, horrible deaths before > their eyes, found pretty > > offensive. I mean, he certainly has the right to > make "jokes"--you know, > > whatever tickles your funny bone--that and setting > cats on fire--but to > have > > obtuse theorizing piled on top of the original > "joke" kind of turns my > gut. > > Personally, the word "windbag" brings a smile to > my lips more readily than > a > > threat to kill more human beings, no matter who's > making the joke. > > > > M > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:44:05 -0400 > > > From: Poetics List Administration > > > > Subject: Re: one self sin teared question > > > > > > Murat Nemet-Nejat writes: > > > > > > > The moderator of this list told me that he was > very sensitive about > "ad > > > > hominem" attack (in response to a censored > reaction of mine [....] I > > > supposed > > > > Sasq's post can not be considered "ad > hominem" because it is a > menacing > > > to > > > > "everybody." Absolutely disgusting really. > > > > > > I'm not sure whether that last sentence is > intended to take in the post > > > by "sasq" - Selim Abdul Sadiq - or my having > forwarded to the list. In > > > any case, I'd like to make a few comments: > > > > > > 1. In general, I don't like to address my > interactions with subscribers > > > here, for the obvious and historically > verifiable reason that such > > > discussions > > > tend to initiate a recursive spiral of endless > and recriminatory posts > to > > > the > > > List about the List. The situation is [A.] as > dull as any public > squabble; > > > and [B.] by its tendency to a peculiarly > school-boyish acerbity, tends > > > also > > > to make other subscribers reluctant to engage in > the business of the > List: > > > which is Discussion. Since almost the entirety > of my position here is to > > > maintain an atmosphere in which people feel that > they can have "their > say" > > > without becoming the subject of > personally-directed rhetorical > violence - > > > hence my use of the phrase 'ad hominem,' > unfortunately gendered - These > > > consequences are detrimental. The post over > which we disagreed, Murat, > > > fits very neatly into the category that I have > elicited, since it was > one > > > in which you repeatedly characterized another > subscriber as a "windbag" > > > and stated that s/he is guaranteed to express > the "windbag point of > view." > > > My response to you was also very simple: the > points you express in > > > relation > > > to the discussion are very welcome, but please > express them without the > > > personal insult. In light of this response, I > can't help remarking that > > > the term Censored is a bit inflated. > > > > > > 2. This morning on "The Connection," I listened > to two very well-spoken > > > liberal men - the host, and a writer on the > airline industry - discuss > the > > > 'unfortunate inevitability' of racial profiling > in matters of national > and > > > especially airport security: "You can write > well-intentioned memos > saying > > > that it shouldn't happen, but the bottom line is > that it will take > place." > > > This brought to mind the number of times, > crossing the border from > Canada > > > into the United States, that I have seen brown > people standing beside > > > their > > > car as it is minutely searched by the border > guards - in proportion to > the > > > few times - well, once in four years actually - > that I have seen white > > > people in a similar situation. Apparently, it is > easy to sympathize, so > > > long as we keep the "bottom line" firmly in > place - though, in this > case, > > > "bottom line" makes a curious bridge between a > pervasive financial > jargon > > > and the less widely-esteemed phrase "mud > people." Perhaps in reacting to > > > Selim Abdul Sadiq's post, we might credit its > author with an awareness > of > > > the "stereotype of complete ignorance and blind > aggression" that is > > > generally attributed, in the U.S., to people of > middle eastern descent; > > > let's go so far even as to impute an intimate > awareness. Perhaps, given > an > > > apparent interest in the nuances of poetry, we > might even credit its > > > author > > > too with the dexterity to momentarily own the > disreputable stereotype in > > > order - having credited us with the dexterity to > read this gesture - to > > > point out its terrible absurdity. But of course, > this is all conjecture. > > > > > > Christopher W. Alexander > > > poetics list moderator > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:43:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: poetry advertising in the NYRB Pre-holiday issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply requested by October 4, 2001 Date: August 23, 2001=20 To: Poetry Press Directors, Marketing Managers, and Journals Managers=20 From: Prageeta Sharma, Advertising Associate, New York Review of Books =20 Re: Pre-holiday 2001 Combined Poetry Press Co-operative Ad (New!) =20 Greetings=E2=80=94 The New York Review of Books would like promote poetry after "National Poetr= y=20 Month" in order to encourage people to enjoy poetry all year around. We plan= =20 to showcase our combined poetry press Co-operative ad in our Pre-Holiday=20 issue, November 29. We will feature poetry titles from all presses that woul= d=20 like to participate. =20 The listing fees, which are provided below, are all-inclusive, covering=20 participation, design, production, space costs, typesetting, and proofreadin= g. $155 for each title listing of 1=E2=80=9310 lines=20 $165 for each title listing of 11=E2=80=9321 lines $45 for each four-color book jacket=20 The following pages include information on the listing format and subject=20 categories. The reply form appears on the last page. Please send the=20 completed reply form with all typed listings to arrive by mail or fax no=20 later than October 4, 2001. If you have any questions or comments, feel fre= e=20 to call me at (212) 757-8070, ext. 3009. I can also be reached via e-mail=20 at: psharma@nybooks.com. Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 19:26:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Job Opening In-Reply-To: <3BB8AC46.F8BE93F0@ark.ship.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "Here's a copy of the job ad my dept will be running in the MLA job list soon--as some of you may know, we are searching to fill the vacancy left by John Taggart's retirement. best, Michael Bibby Dept. of English Shippensburg University" I am disillusioned. You mean he's not a senior partner at Taggart, Taggart, Byrne, & Bright? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 11:57:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tracy shaun ruggles Subject: Re: (orwell quote) Comments: To: gene In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20011001000139.00a91b30@pop.buf.adelphia.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Regarding Orwell, right now Dr. Laura and Rush Limbaugh are quoting the hell out of him when he spoke out against the Pacifists during WWII. It was something along the lines of, "those peace activists are patently pro-fascist". They are both hammering down their listeners' ears the either/or mentality of "if you're not with me, you're against me". How does one intelligently side-step that debate? Binary thinking inherently discards anything that doesn't fit with the right side of the equation, even if the debate tries to step outside the system and show another way. --Tracy on 9/30/01 11:01 PM, gene at genegrab@ADELPHIA.NET wrote: > "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what > they do not want to > hear." > -- George Orwell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:25:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Scappettone" Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 28 Sep 2001 to 1 Oct 2001 (#2001-157) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Elizabeth, I share your impulse to be flip about our President. And I agree that non-critical totality of the left is as dangerous a thing as the called-for "unity" of the right. Still I feel that critique of whatever sort needs to be launched point by point if it is to mean anything, especially in this context, stemming from specific disagreements with actions or positions being taken, rather than from a drawn-out experience of generalized resentment or lack of faith. Besides, the university is changing and it seems important to note the changes and keep abreast of its multifarious efforts before flamboyance kicks in. I have my moments of cynicism with regard to the academy, but its institutions have provided me with the richest sources of information regarding the current situation that I have been able to find thus far. This is maybe the most that one can hope for. One such link that may be helpful to subscribers of this list, from the UCB Institute of Slavic, East European and Eurasian Studies: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~iseees/9-11page.html. The page points to sources of background information related to the attacks of September 11. I am disturbed that town-gown relations appear doomed from certain perspectives. I have not personally found this to be the case. At any rate, I am co-organizing a series of paired readings and colloquia to be held at the Berkeley Center for Writers during the spring, to be funded partially by UC Berkeley's Townsend Center for the Humanities; its aim, in the words of our initial proposal, is to "converge on contemporary poetics and to provide a permeable membrane between the UCB and local writing communities." Our first event will feature Lyn Hejinian and Leslie Scalapino and will be held on February 15; I will post the relevant details to this list once the date approaches. J. Scappettone Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 11:57:19 -0700 From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: what is being done/UCB Dear J., Thank you for your reply. I am aware of most of what you mention that is happening at UCB. I agree that my characterization was a bit flamboyant and flip. I do have respect for what is happening amongst some of the students at Cal; however that is tempered by both my experience as a student there and more by my experience as a citizen of Berkeley since birth. There are ways in which the student and academic populations overwhelm the town and these aggrieve me at times (I realize the economic "boon" the univ brings and parts of the cultural, tho I wouldn't give as much credit as is given by some). Also I recall the snippy egomania of such movements I was peripherally involved in as a student there. So, I was flip, much the same way I've been flip about our President. I do not agree if I take your meaning correctly that the Left shouldn't critique its own. Such critique can come in many forms. However I agree this doesn't seem to be the place for such. But then, where is, these days. Elizabeth Treadwell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:48:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: somewhat urgent need for living space in NYC In-Reply-To: from "Small Press" at Sep 24, 2001 01:45:06 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, I have a good friend Katherine Steele who needs to find a place to live in NYC fairly immediately. She's been in the Peace Corps for 2 years and the Govt just airlifted her, in essence, out of Kyrgystan. She's a terrific person, a fine poet, nice as hell. Backchannel me if you know of anyone looking for a roomate. etc. Thanks! -Mike. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:54:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Magee/Ward at Double Happiness In-Reply-To: from "Small Press" at Sep 24, 2001 01:45:06 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everybody, I'm sure the Double Happiness posse will be posting another message close to the event but I thought I'd give y'all a heads up that I'll be reading w/ Diane Ward at DH this Saturday, Oct. 6 at 4pm. Hope to see many of you there! -Mike. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:42:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: Israel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>One of the most attractive things about US culture is the racial melting >>pot and I am confused by USAmericans who will both see that as positive in >>their own country and yet resist the concept in Palestine with such self-destructive passion Not all USAms see it this way. Many are simply frustrated by both Ireland and the Middle East (count me in). Israel, you're right, is very similar to the US --- go in with a "divine" right, fleeing from X and perpetrate X on those you find there. Elizabeth Treadwell "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:51:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: ART OUT OF A TIME WARP (in response to the 11th ): circa 1964 > 2001 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Like so many others, I have been unsure how to respond, as poet/artist, to the destruction that hit New York City this September 11th. And then it occured to me: perhaps I already had, over thirty-five years ago, around the age of eight years old. See: http://www.geocities.com/jeffreyjullich/peacefulcityindex.html Some of my earliest childhood drawings, still extant (circa 1964), were set in a futuristic city. And that boyhood fantasy of space age architecture came to a sorry end: walls falling, tall structures tipping over, mayhem. The skies were filled (or will be filled?) with hovercraft, steam-propelled hot air balloon-type zepellin-ish flying machines, air buses and airborne "DANGER" signs, floating "STOP" signs, clam-shaped sky gondolas. Pedestrians go from building to building in transparent tubular walkway crossbridges high above the ground traffic below. Radar dishs (that resemble currentday television satellite dishes) on the roofs of skyscrapers, water towers on roofs. Modeled, I suspect, after a World's Fair "City of the Future" exhibition I visited with my parents. For some reason --- influence of a Zsa Zsa Gabor "Queen of Outer Space" movie, early morning Buck Rogers re-runs, and that land of the pharaohs movie where the stone slabs of the pyramid slide in place sealing the royal court inside --- the poor, pretty futuristic city comes tumbling down to an apocalyptic end. Buildings collapse, fires combust, the "RRRRRRRRR!" of a siren, attempts at missile defense from the top of cannon towers plop pathetically downward, duds (meteors ["satalites"! (sic)]). Children's drawings. Long ago. All come tumbling down. The future. Utopias. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 16:32:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Mullen Subject: The Language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A distinctly eerie feeling as I read (forgive me if someone's pointed this out already) in Rasula & McCaffery's great anthology, Imagining Language--p.398 (on the Arab Mystical Alphabet) about the letter lam (no way to do accents here, sorry): "Its day is Tuesday...This sphere is the locus of manifestation of Divine grandeur and revenge. The worship of the angels of this sphere is to bring distant things near, to make the invisible visible, to entrench faith in the heart, to defend the world of mysteries against the infidels, and [they are further occupied with] revenge, blaming, and pressing the souls. Its spirituality is that power that helps and strengthens those who wield the sword and take revenge." I'm glad that--against the too easy alliterative titles given by the media and the current administration--we are struggling with what language's role might be, but it's clearly a mistake to only examine our own.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 07:46:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: robert saint Subject: What Is To Be Done: Pearl Harbor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html

What If?
Rethinking 1941 with Edward R. Murrow.

By Victor Davis Hanson, author most recently of Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power.
September 27, 2001 9:00 a.m.

 

What Should We Do?
By Edward R. Murrow
Washington, D.C.
December 8, 1941

resident Roosevelt will call for a joint session of Congress today to discuss yesterday's bombing of Pearl Harbor and the reported loss of 2,400 Americans. I can report that our commander-in-chief is calm and will not ask for a precipitous "outright" declaration of war against the Japanese, but instead leans toward a general consensus to "hunt down the perpetrators" of this act of "infamy." Speaking for the Congress, Senator Arthur Vandenberg promised bipartisan support to "bring to justice" the Japanese pilots. Many believe that the "rogue" airmen may well have flown from Japanese warships. In response, Secretary of War Stimson is calling for "an international coalition to indict these cowardly purveyors of death," and will shortly ask the Japanese imperial government to hand over the suspected airman from the Akagi and Kaga — "and any more of these cruel fanatics who took off from ships involved in this dastardly act." Assistant Secretary Robert Patterson was said to have remarked, "Stimson is madder than hell — poor old Admiral Yamamato has a lot of explaining to do."

Secretary of State Cordell Hull, however, this morning cautioned the nation about such "jingoism." He warned, "The last thing we want is another Maine or Lusitania. We wouldn't want to start something like a Second World War and ruin the real progress in Japanese-American relations over the last few years." Hull himself is preparing for a long tour to consult our allies in South America, Africa, and colonial France: "If we get the world on board, and make them understand that this is not merely an aggressive act upon us, much less just an American problem, such a solid front may well deter further Japanese action."

Even as Hull prepares to depart, special envoy Harry Hopkins is calling for a general statement of concern from the League of Nations, condemning not only the most recent Japanese aggression, but also an earlier reported incident in Nanking, China. "If we can get an expression of outrage from the League, Japan may well find itself in an interesting pickle. We're looking for some strong League action of the type that followed the banditry in Ethiopia and Finland." Hopkins finished by emphasizing the rather limited nature of the one-day Pearl Harbor incursion, and suggesting such piecemeal attacks were themselves a direct result of past American restraint. "We did not rattle our sabers when they went into China. Had we listened to the alarmists then, we might well be seeing Japanese anger manifesting itself from the Philippines to Wake Island in the coming days."

Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau, Jr., a few hours ago reminded the nation of the current disturbing economic news. "Four million Americans are still out of work. Americans are not out of this Depression by any means. Are we to borrow money to build planes that we don't even know will fly?" The industrialist Henry Kaiser was no more optimistic: "There is simply no liquidity in these markets. We shouldn't even be considering rearming. It is not as if we are going to build a ship a day. Even launching a carrier every couple of years could put us back to 1932."

Military leaders, smarting over yesterday's losses, were no more ready for war. Even the usually colorful Admiral Halsey sounded a note of concern to this reporter, "Look, they have all the cards, not us. The bastards over there could give us a decade of war at least. Where do I get bases for my subs and flattops? Who gives me strips for the flyboys? This could be a new war with no rules. Believe me, brother, we ain't going to Midway or some place like that in six months and cut down to size the whole damn imperial fleet. It's just not going to happen." Admiral King was nearly as blunt, "Hell's bells, no one has ever conquered Japan since they kicked the Portuguese out. Do the American people really want to go over to that part of the world and fight those samurai madmen? The logistics are impossible. These people have been at war for years. I've seen these Zeros — you put a suicide basket case with a wish to die for the em peror in with a tank of gas, and you've got a guided rocket that will blow our ships out of the water." Colonel James Doolittle was even more cautious than the top brass when told of calls for potential early American counterattacks. "Swell — the last thing we need is to send in some hot-dogger to drop a few bombs for the press boys that cause no real damage and get our fellas killed in the bargain."

On the home front, prominent voices in the arts expressed far stronger reservations about possible American "revenge". Robert Maynard Hutchins of the University of Chicago explained to me that the Pearl Harbor incident cannot be separated from its larger cultural context. "We must guard against this absurd and ongoing moral absolutism on the part of the United States in seeing complex cultural differences in black and white terms of the Occident and the Orient. We have no monopoly on morality or justice." His colleague, Mortimer J. Adler, elaborated: "Far too often we look at the world through Western lenses. But in Japanese eyes, this rather desperate attack is seen as a "slap", a lashing out of sorts to get the attention of the United States, really more of a desperate cry of the heart than anything else." Adler went on, "Japan has had a tradition of isolation from and distrust of Western civilization — rightly so in some respects, given everything from past European missionaries to racism, economic exploitation, and colonialism. If we inflame passions, they may well simply divorce themselves from the world community — or worse, set off a conflagration of pan-Asian hatred toward Occidentals that could last for generations. It seems to me Pearl Harbor is rather more of a case of Admiral Perry's chickens at long last coming home to roost."

Contacted at home, the noted naval historian Samuel Eliot Morison was pessimistic about the strategy involved in any U.S. response: "Good God, do they want us to fight the entire world — Germany, Italy, Hungry, Bulgaria, Romania, and now Japan? We lose 2,400 sailors — less than an annual poliomyelitis outbreak — and then we start a World War II? I find these calls for mindless retaliation not only naïve, but disturbing as well in their failure to take account of America's strategic impotence. That's a part of the world we know very little about."

Prominent American clergymen blasted the very idea of armed retaliation, calling instead for interfaith services and greater tolerance of Japanese religious beliefs. Cardinal Cushing warned against castigating the entire Japanese people for the actions of a few fanatics, adding that "Bushido, is, in fact, merely a variant of Shintoism, itself an age-old and misunderstood faith that is as humane as anything in Christian teaching." Cushing added, "There is nothing in Bushido, much less Shintoism that is inherently bellicose or at all anti-Western. These few extremists are hardly representative of either public or religious opinion in Japan." Cushing concluded, "The Emperor himself is a pacifist, a Zen scholar in fact deeply devoted to entomology, with no interest at all in bloodshed. And so the better question might be posed: 'Why does so much of Asia hate us?'"

Celebrated director John Ford reflected Hollywood's unease with the early rumors of war. "Hell, we are artists, not mouthpieces. What are we to do — join the Navy to make movies on government spec? Had we had more Japanese films available to the American people in the first place, we wouldn't have had this misunderstanding." A few Hollywood stars who were willing to speak on the record agreed. Jimmy Stewart called for a world conference of concerned actors and screenwriters. "There have been some great Japanese movies. We need to reach out to our brother actors over there. The last thing we need is a bunch of us would-be pilots storming over to Burbank to enlist." Clark Gable was adamant in his belief in keeping America from doing something "stupid," as he put it. "If you haven't heard lately: We're actors, artists really, not war-mongers. I'm sure that our Japanese counterparts feel the same way. We need to put away the B- 17s and get the cameras rolling on both sides."

Celebrated veterans were especially angered about knee-jerk American anger. Alvin C. York, Medal of Honor winner and hero of the Great War, was reported as "madder than hell" at the "war scare." "We shouldn't fight in some jungle island just because the Japanese hate old man Rockefeller as much as we do."

In an in-depth newsmaker interview, 81-year-old General John J. Pershing told Henry Luce of Time magazine, "I've made war before — long and hard. I've seen it. These sunshine sluggers talk a great game, but wait until our dead pile up. No, it is time to collect our thoughts and think like adults for a change. Lashing back is just what these extremists want us to do. If a war breaks out, then their mission is accomplished. I'd hate to see us playing into the hands of a few militarists who want to topple the moderates and the emperor. This ocean war with carriers is an entirely new challenge, nothing like we have ever seen before. Why get our boys killed only to make a few samurai martyrs?"

And so it is with confidence today that this reporter assures the American people and the world that sobriety, maturity, and prudence — not bombs — are the watchwords on the home front. Remember — our enemies can only win if they make us answer their violence with more needless violence.

 http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson092701.shtml

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:06:12 -0400 Reply-To: dcpoetry@lycos.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dc poetry Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: woids Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from Allison Cobb in NYC: I appreciate Ron Silliman's insightful posts to the list of late. Regarding finding ways to reference the terrorist attacks: I just came out of a meeting where someone from a PR firm referred to that day as 9-1-1. This reference rankled me, on reflection I think because it represents a clever "catch phrase," a way of reducing the events to the same kind of soundbite the networks are using. The pun at the same time carries some attraction because I have the moment of "getting it." But I am also repulsed because this is not something I merely want to "get." Another thing that has been bothering me is the reference to the area destroyed in NYC as "ground zero." I think because ground zero has been used to refer to other significant sites of destruction in history -- most notably the sites of the first atomic bombings. Referring to the former WTC and environs as "ground zero" seems to reduce all those events to a single generic understanding and gut each of its particular terrible meaning. Also I've been thinking about the word "terrorist" itself -- which according to the Webster's I have at work, which has lame etymologies, comes specifically from "an agent or supporter of the revolutionary tribunal during the French Reign of Terror." Others have more insight on that etymology? Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:14:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Elrick Subject: Jobs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The community center where I work is looking for PT GED, ESL and Basic Ed instructors. Night, twice a week, six hours total. $30/hr plus two paid planning hours. Manhattan. ASAP. Call me (Laura Elrick) at 212-360-7630, ext.28 and i'll hook you up with the details. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:25:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Lewis Subject: Re: Paterson Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'd like to direct folks to a photo book called Downtown Paterson by June Avigonne (Arcadia,pb). June is a Paterson poet/fiction writer and gives a fairly straight look at the city. I went to college outside of the city and, from my hometown in Hoboken, the commuter train puts you in downtown in 30 minutes. The terrorists resided in Paterson and Jersey City simply because of the large Islamic populations that provide a ceratin annonmynity & access to things like Hallel foods, etc. Paterson was already on the skids wjen Williams began paterson (the decline began in the wake of the 1913 Silk Strike) and the slide goes on, but it still retains much of the fascinating texture that WCW saw as head ob-gyn at Paterson general. I've taken Ted Berrigan, Anslem Hollo, Alice Notley, Ken Ewards & other poets to see the wonderful Great Falls (no longer smelling of chemicals). Ina ddition Maria Gillan has been running a poetry center atthe community college that has brought poets ranging from Maya Angelou to Hayden Carruth. Certainly worth a visit joel lewis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 19:26:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: Oprah for President Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I suppose it's a little embarassing to admit but I watched a bit of Oprah last week. Perhaps more people saw this show than saw Bush's Thursday speech. I hope so. She had on a bunch of women, the ones I saw were Gloria Steinem, Barbara Lee, Eve Ensler, Peggy Noonan, Madeline Albright, Maya Angelou and Marianne Williamson. Now I don't have absolute devotion to the views of any of them, obviously. However Oprah did such a fantastic job of getting all of them to speak, and when one might go into territory that would offend part of the audience, she brought em back round to language that could be understood by all present. It was amazing to see this chorus of voices and experiences of women. I hate to beat an undead horse, but it has been so undeniably clear how much more public voice men have in the last weeks. Also the show was really encouraging the US to examine itself, in a very thoughtful and open way -- so that no group would feel excluded (except the large group that might be appalled that I watched daytime TV). I think Ms Winfrey does important cultural work then. And I think she would be a good president. So I'm nominating her. She knows how to work the media angle, of course, but she's a person of more conviction than I've seen in the White House since I've been born. And Madonna could be her VP -- I liked her comment about how each of us must examine the terrorism within ourselves. I know this might sound corny, but we've got to work with what we've got. Cornflakily yours Elizabeth Elizabeth Treadwell "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 22:36:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: fishing with hand grenades In-Reply-To: <618775.3210948880@ny-chicagost2a-78.buf.adelphia.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This from news.telegraph.co.uk -- backs up Marjorie's initial attempt to correct our perspective -- U.S. and U.K. are not without violence, demagoguery, what have you, but the Taliban is a totally different beast -- + + + + + + + I was one of the Taliban's torturers: I crucified people (Filed: 30/09/2001) <> "YOU must become so notorious for bad things that when you come into an area people will tremble in their sandals. Anyone can do beatings and starve people. I want your unit to find new ways of torture so terrible that the screams will frighten even crows from their nests and if the person survives he will never again have a night's sleep." These were the instructions of the commandant of the Afghan secret police to his new recruits. For more than three years one of those recruits, Hafiz Sadiqulla Hassani, ruthlessly carried out his orders. But sickened by the atrocities that he was forced to commit, last week he defected to Pakistan, joining a growing number of Taliban officials who are escaping across the border. In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, he reveals for the first time the full horror of what has been happening in the name of religion in Afghanistan. Mr Hassani has the pinched face and restless hands of a man whose night hours are as haunted as any of his victims. Now aged 30, he does not, however, fit the militant Islamic stereotype usually associated with the Taliban. Married with a wife and one-year-old daughter, he holds a degree in business studies, having been educated in Pakistan, where he grew up as a refugee while his father and elder brothers fought in the jihad against the Russians. His family was well off, owning land and property in Kandahar to which they returned after the war. "Like many people, I did not become a Talib by choice," he explained. "In early 1998 I was working as an accountant here in Quetta when I heard that my grandfather - who was 85 - had been arrested by the Taliban in Kandahar and was being badly beaten. They would only release him if he provided a member of his family as a conscript, so I had to go." Mr Hassani at first was impressed by the Taliban. "It had been a crazy situation after the Russians left, the country was divided by warring groups all fighting each other. In Kandahar warlords were selling everything, kidnapping young girls and boys, robbing people, and the Taliban seemed like good people who brought law and order." So he became a Taliban "volunteer", assigned to the secret police. Many of his friends also joined up as land owners in Kandahar were threatened that they must either ally themselves with the Taliban or lose their property. Others were bribed to join with money given to the Taliban by drug smugglers, as Afghanistan became the world's largest producer of heroin. At first, Mr Hassani's job was to patrol the streets at night looking for thieves and signs of subversion. However, as the Taliban leadership began issuing more and more extreme edicts, his duties changed. Instead of just searching for criminals, the night patrols were instructed to seek out people watching videos, playing cards or, bizarrely, keeping caged birds. Men without long enough beards were to be arrested, as was any woman who dared venture outside her house. Even owning a kite became a criminal offence. The state of terror spread by the Taliban was so pervasive that it began to seem as if the whole country was spying on each other. "As we drove around at night with our guns, local people would come to us and say there's someone watching a video in this house or some men playing cards in that house," he said. "Basically any form of pleasure was outlawed," Mr Hassani said, "and if we found people doing any of these things we would beat them with staves soaked in water - like a knife cutting through meat - until the room ran with their blood or their spines snapped. Then we would leave them with no food or water in rooms filled with insects until they died. "We always tried to do different things: we would put some of them standing on their heads to sleep, hang others upside down with their legs tied together. We would stretch the arms out of others and nail them to posts like crucifixions. "Sometimes we would throw bread to them to make them crawl. Then I would write the report to our commanding officer so he could see how innovative we had been." Here, sitting in the stillness of an orchard in Quetta sipping tea as the sun goes down, he finds it hard to explain how he could have done such things. "We Afghans have grown too used to violence," is all he can offer. "We have lost 1.5 million people. All of us have brothers and fathers up there." After Kandahar, he was put in charge of secret police cells in the towns of Ghazni and then Herat, a beautiful Persian city in western Afghanistan that had suffered greatly during the Soviet occupation and had been one of the last places to fall to the Taliban. Herat had always been a relatively liberal place where women would dance at weddings and many girls went to school - but the Taliban were determined to put an end to all that. Mr Hassani and his men were told to be particularly cruel to Heratis. It was his experience of that cruelty that made Mr Hassani determined to let the world know what was happening in Afghanistan. "Maybe the worst thing I saw," he said, "was a man beaten so much, such a pulp of skin and blood, that it was impossible to tell whether he had clothes on or not. Every time he fell unconscious, we rubbed salt into his wounds to make him scream. "Nowhere else in the world has such barbarity and cruelty as in Afghanistan. At that time I swore an oath that I will devote myself to the Afghan people and telling the world what is happening." Before he could escape, however, because he comes from the same tribe, he spent time as a bodyguard for Mullah Omar, the reclusive spiritual leader of the Taliban. "He's medium height, slightly fat, with an artificial green eye which doesn't move, and he would sit on a bed issuing instructions and giving people dollars from a tin trunk," said Mr Hassani. "He doesn't say much, which is just as well as he's a very stupid man. He knows only how to write his name `Omar' and sign it. "It is the first time in Afghanistan's history that the lower classes are governing and by force. There are no educated people in this administration - they are all totally backward and illiterate. "They have no idea of the history of the country and although they call themselves mullahs they have no idea of Islam. Nowhere does it say men must have beards or women cannot be educated; in fact, the Koran says people must seek education." He became convinced that the Taliban were not really in control. "We laughed when we heard the Americans asking Mullah Omar to hand over Osama bin Laden," he said. "The Americans are crazy. It is Osama bin Laden who can hand over Mullah Omar - not the other way round." While stationed in Kandahar, he often saw bin Laden in a convoy of Toyota Land Cruisers all with darkened windows and festooned with radio antennae. "They would whizz through the town, seven or eight cars at a time. His guards were all Arabs and very tall people, or Sudanese with curly hair." He was also on guard once when bin Laden joined Mullah Omar for a bird shoot on his estate. "They seemed to get on well," he said. "They would go fishing together, too - with hand grenades." The Arabs, according to Mr Hassani, have taken de facto control of his country. "All the important places of Kandahar are now under Arab control - the airport, the military courts, the tank command." Twice he attended Taliban training camps and on both occasions they were run by Arabs as well as Pakistanis. "The first one I went to lasted 10 days in the Yellow Desert in Helmand province, a place where the Saudi princes used to hunt, so it has its own airport. It was incredibly well guarded and there were many Pakistanis there, both students from religious schools and military instructors. The Taliban is full of Pakistanis." He was told that if he died while fighting under the white flag of the Taliban, he and his family would go to paradise. The soldiers were given blank marriage certificates signed by a mullah and were encouraged to "take wives" during battle, basically a licence to rape. When Mr Hassani was sent to the front line in Bagram, north of Kabul, a few months ago, he saw a chance to escape. "Our line was attacked by the Northern Alliance and they almost defeated us. Many of my friends were killed and we didn't know who was fighting who; there was killing from behind and in front. Our commanders fled in cars leaving us behind. "We left, running all night but then came to a line of Arabs who arrested us and took us back to the front line. One night last month I was on watch and saw a truck full of sheep and goats, so I jumped in and escaped. "I got back to Kandahar but Taliban spies saw me and I was arrested and interrogated. Luckily I have relatives who are high ranking Taliban members so they helped me get out and eventually I escaped to Quetta to my wife and daughter. "I think many in the Taliban would like to escape. The country is starving and joining is the only way to get food and keep your land. Otherwise there is a lot of hatred. I hate both what it does and what it turned me into." [http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/30/wtal 30.xml] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 15:38:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Isnt "massacre" the word for it? D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 16:04:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: cluttering up my inbox In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >long may you clutter it, Alan Sondheim. Guess some folk think only a >wasp is allowed to buzz in our ears this way. Well, when I watch you >dancing, theres often a honeypot close by. I suppose its not a honey >to everyone's taste. De gustibus non disputandum. So be it. Please >keep on buzzin', cousin. David > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:27:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: housepress/derek beaulieu Subject: TISH (A Vancouver poetry newsletter) 40th Anniversary] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DEAR FRIENDS Most of you were informed earlier of the celebration this year at the Vancouver International Writer's festival of the 40th anniversary of TISH, the Vancouver poetry newsletter. Please forgive double-postings, but this will be the final posting on this matter. We hope you will attend any or all of these events. The main Writers Festival event will take place at PERFORMANCE WORKS GRANVILLE ISLAND OCTOBER 20, 2001 at 4PM advance tickets: 604 681 6330 The event will be hosted by Karl Siegler, the publisher of Talonbooks, who will introduce readings and/or performances by George Bowering David Cull Frank Davey David Dawson Maria Hindmarch Robert Hogg Lionel Kearns Daphne Marlatt Stan Persky Jamie Reid Brad Robinson Fred Wah Many of our other companions from UBC in the 60s will be present. A documentary exhibition of the history of TISH and its writers created by Carol Reid is now on display at the Special Collections Library at Simon Fraser University. The Simon Fraser Special Collections Library is open weekdays 10:00 AM to 4:30 PM. Parallel with these events, a series of talks and discussions has been organized to take place at Simon Fraser Harbour Centre and at Capilano College on October 18th and 19th, featuring some of the TISH writers and writers from the magazine filling station and the Kootenay school of Writing, students and teachers from at least two different generations will be commenting on the role of poetry in the current world. The program and schedule of these events appears below. The public is warmly invited to attend and participate in all of these events. The following is the text of the brochure detailing the events of the talks and discussions mentioned above. AN INVITATION In September 1961, five young poets and their friends, working under the mentorship of UBC English professor Warren Tallman in Vancouver, British Columbia, launched TISH, their anagramatically-named mimeo poetry magazine. In doing so, they became active participants in the expanding trend of underground poetry publication in North America. TISH continued to be produced through three different editorial boards from 1961 to 1969, and many of its participants remain active and respected members of the Canadian literary community today. The network which the TISH poets entered has grown widely in the intervening years and is now extended throughout the English-speaking world. Although TISH was resolutely local in orientation and demotic in language and concern, it never became an inward-looking movement. The very premise of its existence was the need to establish connection between Vancouver, the site of its production, and the wider world. The extensive and long-lasting inter-personal and global connections enjoyed by the poets of the TISH movement, as much as their continued productivity as poets, writers, teachers and publishers, speaks of the variety and depth of their literary and social concerns. Even if TISH was always open to strong innovative influences by forces and movements outside of the local and the national, the fundamental premise of the activity of its members has always been "if it doesn't happen here, it doesn't happen anywhere." Their main concern was never directed toward the passive consumption and imitation of literature and culture produced in the centres of world finance and culture in New York, London or Hollywood. The members of the TISH movement sought to open the ground for the active production of a literature responding to local concerns and demands, but also by choice and by inclination, outside the imperatives of the globalizing centres of hegemonic economic and cultural power. The 40th anniversary of TISH as a magazine/newsletter/workshop of poetry is being celebrated on October 20th at the Vancouver International Writers Festival this year. Parallel with this event, a series of talks and discussions will be held at Simon Fraser Harbour Centre and at Capilano College, featuring presentations of different kinds from the poets, publishers and teachers of at least two generations. The poets of TISH, including two Governor General's Award winners, poets of the Calgary based literary magazine filling station, and the locally-based Kootenay School of Writing and other writers, teachers and students of literature will join together to discuss the present and future role of poetry in the globalized/electronicised world. The events below are free of charge, and the public is warmly invited. PROGRAM FOR THE SERIES OF TALKS AND DISCUSSIONS THURSDAY, OCTOBER 18th SFU HARBOUR CENTRE 2:004:00 Locals in Motion Miriam Nichols, Pauline Butling, Susan Rudy 5:307:30 The Word Office: 'Creative' writing, the academy, & other institutionalizations Chair: Reg Johanson A talk and discussion with Fred Wah "The poem is unjust in its largesse, an axis point through which the creator and the community of a shared language pass." (Jennifer Moxley, from Imagination Verses) Mark Cochrane, Lisa Robertson, Ashok Mathur, Clint Burnham [coffee break] 8:00 10:00 A TRIBUTE TO WARREN TALLMAN Chair: Jason Wiens Roy Miki, Peter Quartermain,George Bowering, Robert Hogg, Maria Hindmarch, Jamie Reid FRIDAY OCTOBER 19th CAPILANO COLLEGE KOERNER LECTURE SERIES 7:30 PM Little Magazines, the Nation State, Global Capitalism Chair: Roger Farr Keynote: Frank Davey "While it is not possible to get outside of one's contemporary cultural formation any more than it is possible to get outside of culture, it should be possible to contest, dilute, hybridize or fracture that formation without undue hindrance from 'arms length' arts institutions. Global capitalism consistently intrudes on the work small journals like Open Letter do." Sharon Thesen and Jason LeHeup, Derek Beaulieu and Russ Rickey, Susan Clark and Michael Barnholden THE PARTICIPANTS GEORGE BOWERING was one of the original editors of TISH. The most genially prolific of all the TISH poets, his ouevre now comprises 85 volumes, including poetry, criticism, essays, novels, short stories, memoirs, plays and recently, two books of popular history. He is the winner of no fewer than two Governor Generals Awards, one for prose and the other for poetry. He recently retired from his teaching post in the English Department at Simon Fraser University. MICHAEL BARNHOLDEN is a member of the Kootenay School of Writing, Publisher of Tsunami Editions, co-editor of Writing Class: The Kootenay School of Writing Anthology (New Star Books 1999), translator of Gabriel Dumont Speaks (Talonbooks 1993) author of Works (Tsunami 2000), On the Ropes (Coach House 1997) derek beaulieu is an MA student at the University of Calgary and publisher of housepress. He has been involved with filling station, endNote and Dandelion magazines and edited COURIER: an international anthology of concrete and visual poetry (housepress, 2000). He recently had work in Open Letter and The Capilano Review. CLINT BURNHAM is a teacher, critic, and the author of several books, most recently Buddyland (Coach House 2001) and Airborne Photo (Anvil 1999). He is the academic co-ordinator for the Humanities 101 program in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. PAULINE BUTLING was present during the discussions and activities in the earliest days of the founding of TISH. She is the author of Seeing in the Dark: The Poetry of Phyllis Webb (Wilfrid Laurier UP, 1995), and has just completed a co-authored book of essays and interviews titled At the Moment: Alternative Poetries and Communities in English Canada Since 1960 with Susan Rudy. She teaches in the Liberal Studies program at The Alberta College of Art and Design. SUSAN CLARK is the publisher and editor of an unsuspended bar-coded periodical vehicle, Raddle Moon, and a co-editor of a suspended unbarcoded periodical vehicle, Giantess, with Christine Stewart and Lisa Robertson, and editor and printer and binder of a suspended series of chapbooks, Sprang Texts. Published in Writing, Motel,West Coast Line, Matrix, the Exact Change Yearbook, the Gertrude Stein Awards in Innovative American [sic] Poetry, the Gig, Avec, Chain, Sulfur, and others; chapbooks from Tsunami (Believing in the World:a reference work) and the Friends of Runcible Mountain (as lit x the syntax of adoration) and online at HOW2 #6/erotics. MARK COCHRANE teaches literature and creative writing at Kwantlen University College and occasionally reviews books for the Vancouver Sun. He is the author of Boy Am I, (Wolsak & Wynn 1995) and Change Room (Talonbooks 2000). FRANK DAVEY was chief editor of the first 19 issues of TISH. He is the author of 21 volumes of poetry and several important works of Canadian literary and cultural criticism. For thirty-five years, he has edited Open Letter, a magazine of poetry and theory. Together with Fred Wah, Davey founded Swift Current, the first literary e-journal in the entire world. He is currently Carl F.Klinck Professor of Canadian Literature at the University of Western Ontario in London, Ontario. He has completed a new work of cultural criticism, Living and Dying, which will be published soon. ROGER FARR co-edits Thuja Books with the Friends of Runcible Mountain. He is a collective member of the Kootenay School of Writing, and teaches writing at Capilano College. Work appears in various small magazines. A recent collaborative hypertext book is currently installed on Artspeak Gallery' s webpage: http://www.artspeak.bc.ca/exhibits/Sift/Sifted/Roger/album.htm. Translations of "Le Livre de Mallarme" are forthcoming. MARIA (GLADYS) HINDMARCH has been associated with the TISH movement since its very beginnings, when she lived in the home of Warren and Ellen Tallman. She has published prose fiction (The Peter Stories (Coach House 1976) and The Watery Part of the World (Douglas &McIntyre 1988) as well as personal memoirs. She is currently a teacher at Capilano College. ROBERT HOGG was an editor of the second series of TISH and went on to study under Charles Olson and Robert Creeley at the State University of New York in Buffalo. He is the author of five volumes of poetry, most recently There is No Falling (ECW, 1993). He teaches in the English Department at Carleton University in Ottawa and is currently working on an anthology of poetic theory. REG JOHANSON is the author of (most recently) Chips (Thuja 2001). He is a member of the Kootenay School of Writing collective, and teaches English composition at Capilano College. JASON LEHEUP is the editor of pulley press and co-edits the experimental publishing project Judy. He has recently edited two issues of The Capilano Review, HOST: 12 Small Canadian Magazines and co-curated Sift: The Reading Room at Artspeak. His work has appeared in a number of publications and will soon appear in 'side/lines: a poetics' an anthology published by Insomniac Press. ASHOK MATHUR is the author of Once Upon an Elephant (Arsenal 1999), Loveruage (Wolsak & Wynn 1993), and The Short Happy Life of Harry Kumar is forthcoming from Arsenal. He teaches at the Emily Carr Institute of Art and Design in Vancouver. ROY MIKI, the former editor of West Coast Line, is a popular teacher in the Department of English at Simon Fraser University. He has written extensively on the work of bpNichol, prepared a bibliography of the work of George Bowering and is a poet in his own right, in the midst of organizing poetry conferences and anti-racism events. MIRIAM NICHOLS teaches contemporary Canadian and American literature and literary theory at the University College of the Fraser Valley. Her recent work includes Even on Sunday: Essays, Readings and Archival Materials on the Poetry and Poetics of Robin Blaser (forthcoming from the National Poetry Foundation, U of Maine, 2001). She is currently working on an edition of Blaser's Collected Essays and a book on early American and Canadian postmodernism tentatively titled "Radical Affections." With Colin Browne and Jerry Zaslove, she edits West Coast Line. PETER QUARTERMAIN is a long-time friend of the TISH movement and of its mentor, Warren Tallman. He recently retired from a teaching post in the English Department at the University of British Columbia. His critical works include a collection of essays on modern and post-modern poetry: Disjunctive Poetics: Gertrude Stein and Louis Zukofsky to Susan Howe (Cambridge Studies in American Literature and Culture, 1992). JAMIE REID was one of the original five editors of TISH. He has published three volumes of poetry, including Prez:Homage to Lester Young (Oolichan 1994) and Mad Boys (Coach House Books, 1994). russ rickey is a Ph.D. candidate working on his dissertation "Poetry, Performance, and the Internet," at the University of Calgary (http://www.ucalgary.ca/~rrickey). A founding member of filling station, russ is also a founder and editor of endnote, and writes contemporary poetry. He has published a chapbook, Trans, and has had creative and critical work appear in Open Letter, Postmodern Culture, absinthe, West Coast Line, dANDelion, Prairie Fire and several other print magazines. SUSAN RUDY is Professor of English at the University of Calgary. Her research is in the areas of experimental poetries and poetics in Canada, feminist theory, literary theory, and women's writing. With Pauline Butling, she has just completed a two-volume manuscript, At the Moment: Alternative Poetries and Communities in English Canada Since 1960. She is about to begin a new project: an annotated bibliography of and critical introduction to the work of Fred Wah tentatively entitled 'Loose Change': Fred Wah, A Life in Writing. LISA ROBERTSON'S most recent book is The Weather (New Star 2001). Her previous book, Debbie: An Epic, was nominated for a Governor General's Award. She has taught in the Writing Practices program at Capilano College and has been Writer-in-Residence at Cambridge University. SHARON THESEN is the newly-appointed editor of The Capilano Review. She has edited three significant poetry collections, Selected poems: The Vision Tree by Phyllis Webb (1982), The New Long Poem Anthology (1991) and New Long Poem Anthology (Second Edition, 2000) She is herself the author of seven volumes of poetry, most recently, News and Smoke: Collected Poems (Talonbooks 1999). FRED WAH, one of the original five editors of TISH, is the author of 17 volumes of poetry and a recent volume of criticism, Faking It, Poetics and Hybridity. Wah's Waiting for Saskatchewan won the Governor General's Award for poetry in 1985. Together with Frank Davey in 1985, he co-founded Swift Current, the world's first electronic poetry magazine. JASON WIENS recently completed his doctoral dissertation, on the Kootenay School of Writing, at the University of Calgary. In addition to his work on KSW, he has published on Dionne Brand, George Bowering, Adeena Karasick and tjsnow. He currently teaches in the Department of English at the University of Calgary. for more information, please contact Jamie Reid at dadababy@attcanada.ca or, 382 East 4th Street North Vancouver, B.C. V7L 1J2 telephone (604) 980-9361 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 05:36:55 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Victims of Misunderstanding Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Understanding victims of misunderstanding Beneath the rubble victims of misunderstanding Things to think we like to think about Aware right there there right there Whatever issues out As soon as aware issues stop right there Objections arise before we even hear The other side of it & that & they are dumb So let it go as go away it will To see through & to listen too To see clear is fair to Victims of misunderstanding Reuven BenYuhmin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 00:07:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII === [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]click here < > to save a life: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]when the button turns green a life is saved: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]if nothing happens click again: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]click here < > to avoid terror: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]this is an interactive text: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]click the first or second buttons for immense faith: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]if you have immense faith the first button turns green: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]if you have lesser faith the second button turns red: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]if nothing happens you have no faith: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]if you have no faith people will die: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]people will die unutterably: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]click here < > it turns black: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]there is darkness and grey dust: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]you have done nothing wrong: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]you have done nothing right: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] 10 vi zz 13 sed 's/^/[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]/g' zz > yy; pico yy 15 sed 's/^/[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]/g' zz > yy; pico yy 17 sed 's/^/[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]/g' zz > yy; pico yy 19 sed 's/^/[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]/g' zz > yy; pico yy === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 03:05:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Maimonides, The Guide of the Perplexed, from I:21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = Maimonides, The Guide of the Perplexed, from I:21: _To pass ['abor]._ The first meaning of this term is that of passage in Arabic; and the first instances of its being used as concerned with the movements of living beings over a certain distance in a straight line. Thus: _And he passed over them; Pass before the people._ Such instances are numerous. Subsequently the word was used figuratively to signify the propagation of sounds in the air. Thus: _And they caused a voice to pass throughout the camp; Which I hear the Lord's people cause to pass._ Afterwards the word was figuratively used to signify the descent of the light and of the Indwelling seen by the prophets _in the vision of prophecy._ Thus it says: _And behold a smoking furnace and a flaming torch that passed between these pieces._ This happened _in a vision of prophecy._ For it says at the beginning of the story: _And a deep sleep fell upon Abram, and so on._ [...] [In regard to Moses] Or you may believe that there was, in addition to this intellectual apprehension, an apprehension due to the sense of sight, which, however, had for its object a created thing, through seeing which the perfection of intellectual apprehension might be achieved. This would be the interpretation of this passage by Onqelos, unless one assumes that this ocular apprehension also occurred in _the vision of prophecy,_ as is stated with regard to _Abraham: Behold a smoking furnace and a flaming torch that passed._ Or again you may believe that there was in addition an apprehension due to the sense of hearing; that which _passed by before his face_ being the _voice,_ which is likewise indubitably a created thing. (Pines translation.) All embodiment, I say, is of the fiction, less a thing than a container of the Indwelling, and such embodiment is less an entity than a device formed by the proper name, Abram, Abraham, Avram, Avraham. And such is of the emanation or virtual nature and condition of the world, that we may take solace in the plasma, not in the granite; that we may comprehend the sun, not the palest of shadows; that we may step beyond the cave which has saved us, in order to write these texts and prophecies; that beyond the cave there is yet another cave and another cave; that the Indwelling is within them all. === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 14:26:09 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "][terr.or.vision][" Subject: [webartery] ][ .r. .u. ][ GAME(?).IC Shapes Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, h3o-o3h@www.god-emil.dk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" | | | | \ \ | | | / ARENA (!): | ][Pl.aye.r 6 con.][shop][front][ing][ations ][Play.or 7 mixes meat][aphor.ick.Ls][ ][Play.err][ed][ PI.anoed in2 stealth-like ar.ch.ri.val][leys][s | | | A.RENA][L failure likely][ (OUT][RE][): | ][Non-Play.][flo][or N.ity dumbed & broke.N][ ][Null(iffy.cation)-Player bleeding in g][l][ilt][ter][ ][Nuked-Player ch][oking][iselling circuitry][ / . . A][wk.(visit)ward(7)][RE][ticulation][NA][.na.na.ne.nah.Naah][ S.PEAK: : : -CAPTURE THE code ][de][funct.ion : -RE.MAN.OVURE scooped ][archi][texturals : -][micro][PROCESS][or][ED character clay : -][after][TASTE of GAME.IC shapes : -CRU][i][S][e][T those metallic swallows : ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: [::Game Secret(e)s::] ][r. u. game-bouyed ink. or. plastiqued paper?][ ][am. i. main-lined ][l][ink. or. pre.][hensile][ banter?][ . . .... ..... net.wurker][mez][ .antithetical..n.struments..go.here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:56:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kerri_Sonnenberg@brown.edu" Subject: Call for Submissions In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Conundrum, a new print journal of poetry showcasing the work of emerging and established writers, invites submissions for its first issue. Conundrum poetry may or may not fluster the language of its own making, may or may not provide many opportunities for pleasure in misreading. Visit www.conundrumpoetry.com for slightly more info Please send work by January 1, 2002 Conundrum Kerri Sonnenberg, editor P.O. Box 1838 Evanston, IL 60204-1838 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 10:52:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Alegria/100 Days/NAROPA at Walt Whitman Comments: To: whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu, max@naropa.edu, wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A REMINDER from the Walt Whitman Center: This Friday, October 5, 7:30 pm CLARIBEL ALEGRIA and CATALINA RIOS Claribel Alegria is the acclaimed Nicaraguan author and witness of five decades of civil war and stuggle against oppression in Central American. Her 40 books include 14 collections of poetry, 4 short novels and The Death of Samoza, a compelling first person account as told to her by the freedom fighters who brought the three-generation Nicaraguan dictatorship to justice. Catalina Rios is a Philadelphia-based poet and storyteller whose work deals with the Puerto Rican migrant experience and the celebration of family and community, justice and spirit. Admission: $6/$4 students & seniors/free to members October 26, 7:30 pm FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION READING: 100 DAYS Featuring Anselm Hollo, hassen, Allison Cobb, Jordan Davis, Patrick Herron and Alicia Askenase FREE NOVEMBER: NAROPA FESTIVAL in WHITMAN'S CAMDEN November 10-13, 2001 PANEL: SATURDAY NOVEMBER 10, 3:30-5 pm A Noiseless, Patient Spider: Whitman's Web of Influence on Modern and Post-Modern Poetics FREE PANELISTS Jack Collom, Rachel Blau DuPlessis Anselm Hollo, Jena Osman Bob Perelman, Heather Thomas RECEPTION 5-6:30 p.m. READING 7:30 p.m. Jack Collom Victor Hernandez Cruz Anselm Hollo SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11 WHITMAN'S HOUSE AND GRAVESITE TOUR 1-2:30 PM FREE READING 3:00 PM Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Bob Perelman Heather Thomas, Akilah Oliver MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12 The festival will include 4 writing workshops on Monday and Tuesday, 11/12&13. Registration is on a first-come, first-served basis. Send up to 4 pages of writing, your payment, and a SASE if you want your work returned. Deadline: October 20, 2001. WRITING WORKSHOPS Anselm Hollo-10:00 a.m-12 noon Laird Hunt-4-6 p.m.(class size limit: 6) READING 7:30 p.m. Laird Hunt, Jena Osman Deborah Richards, Edwin Torres TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 13 WRITING WORKSHOPS Alilah Oliver-time tba Eleni Sikelianos-4-6 p.m. READING 7:30 p.m. Anne Waldman Samuel Delany Eleni Sikelianos Fees for the NAROPA FESTIVAL in WHITMAN'S CAMDEN COMPLETE PACKAGE: Admission to all readings, and workshops. $75 (includes membership) $55 members WRITING WORKSHOPS: $30 (includes membership) $20 members All workshops will run 2 hours, and are limited to 10 participants, excluding Laird Hunt's fiction class (6). READINGS: General Admission $6/Students & Seniors $4/Members Free Payments should be made to the Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center by check or money order. Visa, Master Card and American Express are also accepted. Inquiries: 856-964-8300 wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org www.waltwhitmancenter.org Alicia Askenase Literary Program Director Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center 2nd and Cooper Sts. Camden, NJ 08102 Keep the world safe for poetry --Anne Waldman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 08:36:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: call for Susan Howe essay In-Reply-To: <3BB8B1FB.EE5EB1D7@lfc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, everyone. I have been in touch with an editor who is putting together a research book on contemporary women poets and had a last minute drop-out from the person who was supposed to write about Susan Howe. If any of you are interested in filling in, that would be most appreciated. The essay will need to be 1800-2300 words long and is due by the end of the month. I had hoped to fill in, but don't think I can meet the deadline. If interested, please contact Catherine Cucinella at Catcuch@aol.com. Thanks, Arielle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 11:38:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: our dead art In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sorry to keep bothering the list with newsies, but I don't know if anyone saw this from Sunday's NYTBR -- "The writing of poetry is regularly deemed a dead art, so it is little wonder that its living practitioners are a somewhat petty and xenophobic bunch -- or that the enterprise itself has come to seem, except in the hands of a few populist types like Sharon Olds, Philip Levine and Billy Collins, almost willfully insular. 'Contemporary poets,' noted the Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska in her 1996 Nobel acceptance speech 'are skeptical and suspicious even, or perhaps especially, about themselves.' One can hardly blame them, of course, seeing as how most people return the compliment by avoiding the stuff altogether." The whole review may be found here: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/30/books/review/30MERKINTW.html I'll write something original, someday, I promise, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 11:57:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Paterson In-Reply-To: <200110030138.VAA11762@maynard.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You might want to fix the clock on your computer or mailserver -- it's setting your messages at "Mon, 27 Aug 1956" > From: Joel Lewis > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:25:34 -0400 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Paterson > > I'd like to direct folks to a photo book called Downtown Paterson by June > Avigonne (Arcadia,pb). June is a Paterson poet/fiction writer and gives a > fairly straight look at the city. I went to college outside of the city and, > from my hometown in Hoboken, the commuter train puts you in downtown in 30 > minutes. > > The terrorists resided in Paterson and Jersey City simply because of the > large Islamic populations that provide a ceratin annonmynity & access to > things like Hallel foods, etc. > > Paterson was already on the skids wjen Williams began paterson (the decline > began in the wake of the 1913 Silk Strike) and the slide goes on, but it > still retains much of the fascinating texture that WCW saw as head ob-gyn at > Paterson general. I've taken Ted Berrigan, Anslem Hollo, Alice Notley, Ken > Ewards & other poets to see the wonderful Great Falls (no longer smelling of > chemicals). Ina ddition Maria Gillan has been running a poetry center atthe > community college that has brought poets ranging from Maya Angelou to Hayden > Carruth. > > Certainly worth a visit > > joel lewis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 16:28:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: john coletti Subject: Eddie and Brenda are looking for a roommate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I am forwarding this for Eddie Berrigan -- john coletti --------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Everyone, Brenda Bordofsky & I are looking for a roommate to move in October 1st. If you are or know anyone interested, amiable, nice, etc., please forward the info below. Thanks a bunch. APARTMENT AVAILABLE OCT. 1ST One large room in a three bedroom in Parkslope with exposed brick, non-working fireplace, wood floors. Rent is $800 (though $700 the first month) plus deposit of $700 and last month's rent. Total move in is $2,200. Brenda and I are both writers, vegan/vegitarian (not exclusive), non smokers, and queer friendly. Cats (or other non dog quadrupeds) are ok. If you are interested send an email to eberrigan@hotmail.com or bordofsky@juno.com, or call 718 623 9756(Brenda) or 646 236 1100 (Ed) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 21:18:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Ugh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0508_01C14ABE.96153B20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0508_01C14ABE.96153B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, I'm attaching a working draft of an article I am writing for ASAP, which is a new APA online peer reviewed journal. It's pretty academic because of the audience. I'm not sure what your thoughts are about using POETICS this way. tom bell ------=_NextPart_000_0508_01C14ABE.96153B20 Content-Type: text/plain; name="PMBIB.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="PMBIB.txt" Bachelard, G. (1990). Fragments of a poetics of fire. Dallas, TX: = Dallas=20 Institute Publications. Bernstein, C. P., (Ed.), (1999). 99 POETS/1999: An international=20 Poetics symposium. Durham, NC, Duke University Press. Folkman, S., Lazarus, R. S., Dunkel-Schetter, C., DeLongis, A. &=20 Gruen, R. (1986). The dynamics of a stressful encounter:=20 Cognitive appraisal, coping and encounter outcomes. Journal of=20 Personality and Social Psychology, 50, 992-1003. Folkman, S. & Moskowitz, J. T. (2000). Positive affect and the other=20 Side of coping. American Psychologist, 55, 647 - 654. Franklin, M. B. (2001). The artist speaks: Sigmund Koch on aesthetics=20 and creative work. American Psychologist, 56, 445 - 452. Fredrickson, B. L. (2001). The role of positive emotions in positive=20 psychology: The broaden-and-build theory of positive emotions. =20 American Psychologist, 56, 218 - 226. Gibbs, R. W. Jr. (1994) The poetics of mind, New York, Cambridge University Press. Hermans, H. J. M., & Kempen, H. J. G. (1998). Moving cultures: The=20 perilous problems of cultural dichotomies in a globalizing = society. =20 American Psychologist, 53, 1111 - 1120. Klein, K. & Boals, A. (2001). Expressive writing can increase working=20 Memory capacity. Journal of Experimental Psychology: General,=20 190, 520 - 533. Lakoff, G. (1991). Metaphor and war: The metaphorical system used to justify war in the gulf. In B. Hallet (Ed.). Engulfed in = war: Just war and the Persian Gulf. Honolulu: Matsunaga Institute = for Peace. Lakoff, G., & Johnson, M. (1980). Metaphors we live by. Chicago,=20 University of Chicago. Martin, R. A. (2001), Humor, laughter and physical health:=20 Methodological issues and research findings. Psychological=20 Bulletin, 127, 504 - 519. Miller, G. T. & Cohen, S. (2001). Psychological interventions and the Immune system: A meta-analytic review and critique. Health =20 Psychology, 20, 47 - 63. Padgett, R. (2000). The teachers=92 and writers handbook of poetic=20 forms. New York, Teachers and Writers. Pennebaker, J. W. (1997). Writing about therapeutic processes as a therapeutic process. Psychological Science, 8, 162 - 166. Pennebaker, J.W., Francis, M.E., & Booth, R.J. (2001) . = Linguistic Inquiry and Word Count (LIWC): LIWC2001 (this includes the manual only). Mahwah, NJ: Erlbaum Publishers.=20 Pennebaker, J.W. & King, L.A. (1999) . Linguistic styles: = Language use=20 as an individual difference. Journal of Personality and Social=20 Psychology, 77, 1296-1312.=20 Pennington, B. F. (1994). The working memory function of the=20 prefrontal cortex. In M. M. Haith, J. B. Benson, R. J. Robert, = Jr., &=20 B. F. Pennington (Eds.), The development of future-oriented=20 processes (pp. 243 - 289). Chicago, University of Chicago Press. The Poetics List is an e-mail discussion group founded by Charles =20 Bernstein in January 1994. Since January 1999, it has been a fully = moderated list; Christopher Alexander is the list moderator. A = full =20 archive of the thousands of posts circulated on the lists is =20 Available at = . [Also, Roof Books has published a selection of Poetics List posts as = Poetics@, edited by Joel Kuszai and available from Small Press = Distribution, Berkeley, CA. All subscribers to the Poetics List are = asked to register with us and to post using their full real names. For = information about subscribing to poetics, please send an e-mail message = to us at poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu , = briefly describing your interest in the list. Please include your name, = address, and phone number] Salovey, P., Detweiler, J. B., Steward, W. T., & Rothman, A. J. (2000). = Emotional states and physical health. American Psychologist, 55, = =20 110- 121. Simon, B., & Klandermans, B. (2001). Politicized collective identity: A=20 Social psychological analysis. American Psychologist, 56, 319 -=20 331.=20 Smyth, J. M. (1968). Written emotional expression: Effect sizes,=20 outcome types, and moderating variables. Journal of Consulting=20 And Clinical Psychology, 59, 1 - 4. Stone, L. D., & Pennebaker, J. W. (in press). Talking in real time:=20 talking and avoiding conversations about the death of princess=20 Diana. Basic and Applied Social Psychology, in press.=20 Taylor, S. E., Kemeny, M. E., Bower, J. E., Gruenewald, T. L., & Reed,=20 G. M. (2000). Psychological resources, positive illusions, and=20 health. American psychologist, 55, 99 - 109. Treadwell, E. (2001). Message posted to the POETICS listserv mailing=20 list. Vaillant, G. E. (2000). Adaptive mental mechanisms: Their role in a=20 positive psychology. American Psychologist, 55, 89 - 98. Winnicott, D. W. (1971). Playing and reality. London, Tavistock. ------=_NextPart_000_0508_01C14ABE.96153B20 Content-Type: text/plain; name="PMART.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="PMART.txt" Poetic Language and Actions in Crisis =93Literary images serve more than merely as a means of expressing ideas or of translating the pleasures of sensory=20 experience coherently into language but possess certain immediate powers of their own (Bachelard, 1990, p. 11).=94 =20 Psychological research has begun developing empirical insights into = how poetic language operates. As early as the time of Homer poetry was = seen as having a special role in traumatic times, tragedy, war, and = health and illness. Now empirical research is starting to untangle some = strands of language and develop some insights into how and why they = work. This paper will describe some of the parameters of what is known = and apply them to poetic actions that might help during this period of = crisis and turmoil.=20 Even though we poets may be loathe to admit it, poetry is nothing = more than a style of writing, but this style is a mode of thought and = enaction and as such is a complex and resplendent being which includes = poetic imagery, poetic language, and poetic enaction - the action of = writing poetry. =20 Poetry communicates metaphorically. It was banished for this from = Plato=91s Republic. Maybe it should be allowed back in now as it is = time=20 for revision of the metaphors that may have led us to this juncture. =20 One metaphoric route is through directions opened up by George=20 Lakoff and Mark Johnson (Lakoff, 1991; Lakoff & Johnson, 1980). =20 Gibbs (Gibbs, 1994) has done some work on poetic metaphor. Other=20 metaphoric routes have been taken in recent social (Simon &=20 Klandermans, 2001) and cross-cultural (Hermans & Kempen, 1998)=20 psychology. This is too complex an area for adequate coverage. The=20 focus will be on recent research that bears on poetic language and how=20 this bears on poetic actions (the actual writing of poetry) or poetics. = =20 Poetics is a large field that includes the poetic process itself = (e.g.,=20 Padgett, 2000), poetics or thinking about how you do it (e.g.=20 Bernstein, 1999), and philosophical approaches (e.g., Bachelard,=20 1990) and here I want to focus on the narrow aspect of poetics=20 concerned with enactment. There are at least three strands in recent=20 research which can be distinguished although they are intertwined. =20 These strands are language=92s as Working Memory (WM), its role in=20 health and trauma resolution, and its role in speaking poetically=20 in interpersonal and internet communication. =20 Working Memory Even though to many, poets are scribblers hiding in garrets, poetry = is a social activity. Writing something down is an activity that takes=20 place in a space or an =93object=94 between writer and reader, one that = can function sequentially or interchangeably as working memory, a=20 mirror, transitional object (Winnicott, 1971), diary for disclosure or=20 secrets, =91words on paper,=91 etc. While these are terms from diverse=20 areas of knowledge, the analogy is plausible. WM is a limited capacity system (Pennington, 1994), not to be=20 confused with short-term memory which has some executive functions for tasks like attention and controlled processing. Among other things. = Klein & Boals (2001) found that =93expressive writing reduces intrusive=20 and avoidant thinking about a stressful event, thus freeing WM=20 resources.=94 for other tasks. Health and Trauma Resolution =20 We are starting to gain insight into how thoughts and feelings are=20 written in this space and how specifically this writing affects health, = the=20 immune system, and many other areas of functioning. Klein & Boals=20 (2001), Pennebaker (1997) and Smyth (1998) are some recent=20 overviews of the complexities of current research on this aspect of=20 writing.=20 There is an ever-growing body of research on therapeutic writing = loosely based on Pennebaker=92s (Pennebaker, 1997) disclosure paradigm = along with the developing Linguistic Inquiry and Word Count methodology = (Pennebaker, J. W., Francis, M. E., & Booth, R. C., 2001; Pennebaker & = King, 1999). =20 It is important that this disclosure writing be =92emotional=92 with = cognitive processing (either by the discloser or a therapeutic = listener).=20 This disclosure should ideally occur in a safe place with provisions=20 for appropriate resolution of the material (Pennebaker, 1997). =20 Speaking Poetically=20 Poetic speech is often linked with musicality or making pleasant. = While the poetry I often read and write is often discordant, the = psychoaesthetics (Franklin, 2001) of positive emotions, pleasantness, = humor, and euphony, when analyzed in their specifics, do have = connections to coping (Folkman & Moskowitz, 2000), health (Salovey, = Detweiler, Steward, & RothmanTaylor, 2000; Kemeny, Bower, Gruenewald, & = Reed, 2000), and the immune system (Miller & Cohen, 2001). Although = research reviews (Martin, 2001; Miller & Cohen, 2001) do tend to show = only modest evidence for support for simple pleasant - health ideas, = conceptually informed and methodologically sound research shows promise = of yielding specific results. In addition more rigorously = conceptualized research programs are promising, like Vaillant=92s = adaptive mental mechanisms (Vaillant, 2000) and the broaden-and-build = model of positive emotions (Fredrickson, 2001) in which positive leads = to positive in many areas, including the interpersonal and political. =20 Internet Lab in Action - Enactment in Real Time. An internet mailing listserv and exchanges of emails on it = following the tragedy (what to actually call the September 11, 2001 = =91event=92 and its sequellae is one important question facing the = nation and international media. This question as language and image was = actually discussed on this particular list) provides some insights into = poetic language, poetic imagery, and poets=92 expression of their = feelings in real time. This particular list does have some = distinguishing characteristics due to it=92s history and the = international, =92experimental=92 character of it=92s subscribers, but = this capability of definition makes it a laboratory for psychological = investigation as well as an historical document of response by poets, = mailing lists, the college-educated public, etc., to the =92event=92.=20 After the =91event=92 there was a period of silence and then some = emails enquiring about the well-being of friends. Then a poet posted a = message simply describing the particulars of his feelings and = observations. Even though in plain language this was a =93poem=94 that = seemed to loosen the floodgates as it was followed by several others = even though there were list members unable to write anything for awhile. = Thee is a discussion of a transitional object or symbol of the event = and how this transitional object is and will affect future thought and = actions. In this instance WM is being analyzed as it poetically enacts = history. =20 Dear Poetix People, On another list there's been a discussion about why = poets are expected to soothe, honor, grieve, whatever, be turned to in = the time of need and expected to produce a something out of this while = folks in other mediums are not. (I'm not sure this is true!) And that = it's a bit insulting when we're and our medium is usually, generally not = all that respected. What do you think? Elizabeth Treadwell (9/27/01) ------=_NextPart_000_0508_01C14ABE.96153B20-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:34:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: Re: Ugh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher W. Alexander, you are clearly the poster boy for political correctness. On the one hand you lament being thought of as a censor when you do, in fact, censor. And on the other hand-- when you on rare occassion let something through that offends the closed mindedness of your audience, you apologize for it. This is such a narrow view that it can't even be characterized as two sides of the same coin. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:05:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: [CC] Fw: --Seven Poems Used by Americans to Console Themselves (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 12:02:46 -0400 From: Michael Gurstein Reply-To: cyberculture@zacha.org To: cyberculture Subject: [CC] Fw: --Seven Poems Used by Americans to Console Themselves ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Beniger" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 3:09 AM Subject: --Seven Poems Used by Americans to Console Themselves > > > > SEVEN POEMS USED BY AMERICANS TO CONSOLE THEMSELVES > > FOLLOWING THE TERRORIST ATTACKS OF SEPTEMBER 11, 2001 > > As reported by Dinitia Smith, "The Eerily Intimate Power > of Poetry to Console," New York Times, October 1, 2001 > > (compiled by J.R. Beniger, for Triumph-of-Content-l@usc.edu) > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > W.H. Auden September 1, 1939 > > Stephen Dunn To a Terrorist > > Haida traditional From "Songs of the Cave Dwellers" > > Marianne Moore What Are Years? > > Percy Bysshe Shelley Ozymandias > > William Carlos Williams From "Asphodel, That Greeny Flower" > > William Butler Yeats Where My Books Go > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > September 1, 1939 > > W. H. Auden > > > I sit in one of the dives > On Fifty-second Street > Uncertain and afraid > As the clever hopes expire > Of a low dishonest decade: > Waves of anger and fear > Circulate over the bright > And darkened lands of the earth, > Obsessing our private lives; > The unmentionable odour of death > Offends the September night. > > Accurate scholarship can > Unearth the whole offence > From Luther until now > That has driven a culture mad, > Find what occurred at Linz, > What huge imago made > A psychopathic god: > I and the public know > What all schoolchildren learn, > Those to whom evil is done > Do evil in return. > > Exiled Thucydides knew > All that a speech can say > About Democracy, > And what dictators do, > The elderly rubbish they talk > To an apathetic grave; > Analysed all in his book, > The enlightenment driven away, > The habit-forming pain, > Mismanagement and grief: > We must suffer them all again. > > Into this neutral air > Where blind skyscrapers use > Their full height to proclaim > The strength of Collective Man, > Each language pours its vain > Competitive excuse: > But who can live for long > In an euphoric dream; > Out of the mirror they stare, > Imperialism's face > And the international wrong. > > Faces along the bar > Cling to their average day: > The lights must never go out, > The music must always play, > All the conventions conspire > To make this fort assume > The furniture of home; > Lest we should see where we are, > Lost in a haunted wood, > Children afraid of the night > Who have never been happy or good. > > The windiest militant trash > Important Persons shout > Is not so crude as our wish: > What mad Nijinsky wrote > About Diaghilev > Is true of the normal heart; > For the error bred in the bone > Of each woman and each man > Craves what it cannot have, > Not universal love > But to be loved alone. > > From the conservative dark > Into the ethical life > The dense commuters come, > Repeating their morning vow; > "I will be true to the wife, > I'll concentrate more on my work," > And helpless governors wake > To resume their compulsory game: > Who can release them now, > Who can reach the deaf, > Who can speak for the dumb? > > All I have is a voice > To undo the folded lie, > The romantic lie in the brain > Of the sensual man-in-the-street > And the lie of Authority > Whose buildings grope the sky: > There is no such thing as the State > And no one exists alone; > Hunger allows no choice > To the citizen or the police; > We must love one another or die. > > Defenceless under the night > Our world in stupor lies; > Yet, dotted everywhere, > Ironic points of light > Flash out wherever the Just > Exchange their messages: > May I, composed like them > Of Eros and of dust, > Beleaguered by the same > Negation and despair, > Show an affirming flame. > > ------- > > TO A TERRORIST > > Stephen Dunn > > > For the historical ache, the ache passed down > which finds its circumstance and becomes > the present ache, I offer this poem > > without hope, knowing there's nothing, > not even revenge, which alleviates > a life like yours. I offer it as one > > might offer his father's ashes > to the wind, a gesture > when there's nothing else to do. > > Still, I must say to you: > I hate your good reasons. > I hate the hatefullness that makes you fall > > in love with death, your own included. > Perhaps you're hating me now, > I who own my own house > > and live in a country so muscular, > so smug, it thinks its terror is meant > only to mean well, and to protect. > > Christ turned his singular cheek, > one man's holiness another's absurdity. > Like you, the rest of us obey the sting, > > the surge. I'm just speaking out loud > to cancel my silence. Consider it an old impulse, > doomed to become mere words. > > The first poet probably spoke to thunder > and, for a while, believed > thunder had an ear and a choice. > > ------- > > From 'Songs of the Coast Dwellers' > > Haida traditional > > > You will be missed terribly. > You will not be forgotten. > > In the dawn I gathered cedar-boughs: > Sweet, sweet was their odor, > They were wet with tears - > The sweetness will not leave my hands, > No, not in the salt sea-washings. > Tears will not wash away sweetness. > I shall have sweet hands for thy service. > > ------- > > What Are Years? > > Marianne Moore > > > What is our innocence, > what is our guilt? All are > naked, none is safe. And whence > is courage: the unanswered question, > the resolute doubt, - > dumbly calling, deafly listening-that > in misfortune, even death, > encourage others > and in it's defeat, stirs > > the soul to be strong? He > sees deep and is glad, who > accededs to mortality > and in his imprisonment rises > upon himself as > the sea in a chasm, struggling to be > free and unable to be, > in its surrendering > finds its continuing. > > So he who strongly feels, > behaves. The very bird, > grown taller as he sings, steels > his form straight up. Though he is captive, > his mighty singing > says, satisfaction is a lowly > thing, how pure a thing is joy. > This is mortality, > this is eternity. > > ------- > > Ozymandias > > Percy Bysshe Shelley > > > I met a traveler from an antique land > Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone > Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand, > Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, > And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command > Tell that its sculptor well those passions read > Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, > The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed. > > And on the pedestal these words appear: > "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: > Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" > > Nothing beside remains. Round the decay > Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare > The lone and level sands stretch far away. > > (1818) > > ------- > > > From "Asphodel, That Greeny Flower" > William Carlos Williams > > > Of asphodel, that greeny flower, > like a buttercup > upon its branching stem- > save that it's green and wooden- > I come, my sweet, > to sing to you. > We lived long together > a life filled, > if you will, > with flowers. So that > I was cheered > when I came first to know > that there were flowers also > in hell. > Today > I'm filled with the fading memory of those flowers > that we both loved, > even to this poor > colorless thing- > I saw it > when I was a child- > little prized among the living > but the dead see, > asking among themselves: > What do I remember > that was shaped > as this thing is shaped? > while our eyes fill > with tears. > Of love, abiding love > it will be telling > though too weak a wash of crimson > colors it > to make it wholly credible. > There is something > something urgent > I have to say to you > and you alone > but it must wait > while I drink in > the joy of your approach, > perhaps for the last time. > And so > with fear in my heart > I drag it out > and keep on talking > for I dare not stop. > Listen while I talk on > against time. > It will not be > for long. > I have forgot > and yet I see clearly enough > something > central to the sky > which ranges round it. > An odor > springs from it! > A sweetest odor! > Honeysuckle! And now > there comes the buzzing of a bee! > and a whole flood > of sister memories! > Only give me time, > time to recall them > before I shall speak out. > Give me time, > time. > When I was a boy > I kept a book > to which, from time > to time, > I added pressed flowers > until, after a time, > I had a good collection. > The asphodel, > forebodingly, > among them. > I bring you, > reawakened, > a memory of those flowers. > They were sweet > when I pressed them > and retained > something of their sweetness > a long time. > It is a curious odor, > a moral odor, > that brings me > near to you. > The color > was the first to go. > There had come to me > a challenge, > your dear self, > mortal as I was, > the lily's throat > to the hummingbird! > Endless wealth, > I thought, > held out its arms to me. > A thousand tropics > in an apple blossom. > The generous earth itself > gave us lief. > The whole world > became my garden! > But the sea > which no one tends > is also a garden > when the sun strikes it > and the waves > are wakened. > I have seen it > and so have you > when it puts all flowers > to shame. > Too, there are the starfish > stiffened by the sun > and other sea wrack > and weeds. We knew that > along with the rest of it > for we were born by the sea, > knew its rose hedges > to the very water's brink. > There the pink mallow grows > and in their season > strawberries > and there, later, > we went to gather > the wild plum. > I cannot say > that I have gone to hell > for your love > but often > found myself there > in your pursuit. > I do not like it > and wanted to be > in heaven. Hear me out. > Do not turn away. > I have learned much in my life > from books > and out of them > about love. > Death > is not the end of it. > There is a hierarchy > which can be attained, > I think, > in its service. > Its guerdon > is a fairy flower; > a cat of twenty lives. > If no one came to try it > the world > would be the loser. > It has been > for you and me > as one who watches a storm > come in over the water. > We have stood > from year to year > before the spectacle of our lives > with joined hands. > The storm unfolds. > Lightning > plays about the edges of the clouds. > The sky to the north > is placid, > blue in the afterglow > as the storm piles up. > It is a flower > that will soon reach > the apex of its bloom. > We danced, > in our minds, > and read a book together. > You remember? > It was a serious book. > And so books > entered our lives. > The sea! The sea! > Always > when I think of the sea > there comes to mind > the Iliad > and Helen's public fault > that bred it. > Were it not for that > there would have been > no poem but the world > if we had remembered, > those crimson petals > spilled among the stones, > would have called it simply > murder. > The sexual orchid that bloomed then > sending so many > disinterested > men to their graves > has left its memory > to a race of fools > or heroes > if silence is a virtue. > The sea alone > with its multiplicity > holds any hope. > The storm > has proven abortive > but we remain > after the thoughts it roused > to > re-cement our lives. > It is the mind > the mind > that must be cured > short of death's > intervention, > and the will becomes again > a garden. The poem > is complex and the place made > in our lives > for the poem. > Silence can be complex too, > but you do not get far > with silence. > Begin again. > It is like Homer's > catalogue of ships: > it fills up the time. > I speak in figures, > well enough, the dresses > you wear are figures also, > we could not meet > otherwise. When I speak > of flowers > it is to recall > that at one time > we were young. > All women are not Helen, > I know that, > but have Helen in their hearts. > My sweet, > you have it also, therefore > I love you > and could not love you otherwise. > Imagine you saw > a field made up of women > all silver-white. > What should you do > but love them? > The storm bursts > or fades! it is not > the end of the world. > Love is something else, > or so I thought it, > a garden which expands, > though I knew you as a woman > and never thought otherwise, > until the whole sea > has been taken up > and all its gardens. > It was the love of love, > the love that swallows up all else, > a grateful love, > a love of nature, of people, > of animals, > a love engendering > gentleness and goodness > that moved me > and that I saw in you. > I should have known, > though I did not, > that the lily-of-the-valley > is a flower makes many ill > who whiff it. > We had our children, > rivals in the general onslaught. > I put them aside > though I cared for them. > as well as any man > could care for his children > according to my lights. > You understand > I had to meet you > after the event > and have still to meet you. > Love > to which you too shall bow > along with me- > a flower > a weakest flower > shall be our trust > and not because > we are too feeble > to do otherwise > but because > at the height of my power > I risked what I had to do, > therefore to prove > that we love each other > while my very bones sweated > that I could not cry to you > in the act. > Of asphodel, that greeny flower, > I come, my sweet, > to sing to you! > My heart rouses > thinking to bring you news > of something > that concerns you > and concerns many men. Look at > what passes for the new. > You will not find it there but in > despised poems. > It is difficult > to get the news from poems > yet men die miserably every day > for lack > of what is found there. > Hear me out > for I too am concerned > and every man > who wants to die at peace in his bed > besides. > > ------- > > Where My Books Go > > William Butler Yeats, b. 1865 > > > ALL the words that I utter, > And all the words that I write, > Must spread out their wings untiring, > And never rest in their flight, > Till they come where your sad, sad heart is, > And sing to you in the night, > Beyond where the waters are moving, > Storm-darken'd or starry bright. > > > ******* > > > -- Cyberculture@zacha.org http://www.zacha.org/mailman/listinfo/cyberculture http://www.cyberculture.zacha.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:37:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Behrle, Cole, Kiely read Saturday in Boston Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Booksmith<--Bookcellar, in a bit of last minute finagling, proudly presents NEPOTISM NIGHT: CO-CURATORS-->READERS Jim Behrle, Sean Cole and Aaron Kiely read their poems, very likely in that order. Saturday 10/6 at 7 PM Brookline Booksmith 279 Harvard St. Brookline, MA 02446 Jim Behrle edits can we have our ball back? and co-edits PRESSED WAFER. His first chapbook, CITY POINT (Pressed Wafer) was published in 2000. Behrle is the events director for Brookline Booksmith and co-curates Bookcellar-->Booksmith Poetry readings. He serves as roving poet for NPR's "Here & Now." Behrle lives in Brookline, MA. He watches TV and drinks RC Cola. The world's a mess; it's in his kiss. Won't you please, please, help me, etc. Sean Cole produces radio stories at WBUR-FM in Boston. Poems of his appeared in the first issue of the magazine "DAD" and, most recently, the first issue of "Pom-Pom." His work also appears in perpetuity, on-line, at "Shampoo Poetry dot com," the mysterious "Can we have our ball back dot com" and "The East Village dot org." But then, if you're like him, you already know all of this. Aaron Kiely wrote "Breaks Other", "Fun Greatest Simple", "My Money", "Ya-Don't-Stop", "I'm Here" and "John Cougar". He got his BA in Composition from Needham High School in Needham, MA. He lives in New York City and currently plays in the band Slipknot. Paisley Park is in your heart. ~~This may be your chance to hear these fine fellas in 2001.~~ If you make it, that would be great. Keith Waldrop and Allison Bundy will be rescheduled ASAP. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 11:06:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Thank you, List! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's the mind, Marjorie, not the body, and obviously you can still reach down to your creativity, richly endowed. Happy Birthday, Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marjorie Perloff" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 11:41 PM Subject: Re: Thank you, List! > Well, when I first saw that Charles had posted news of my birthday, I > was mortified! I thought, oh God, now they will all know what an old > lady I am. However, everyone's wishes have been so heartwarming that > I'm grateful to Charles. Thanks to everybody who wrote! I don't really > feel that different but, as Joe (my husband) says, "Getting old means > having to sit down to put on your underwear...." Something like that > .... > > Love, > Marjorie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 14:22:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: you'd better sit down for this Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed OK -- since I'd never previously been misled by either Marjorie or Joe Perloff, I did in fact attempt to put on my underwear sitting down this morning. But I seemed to hit an impasse just above mid-thigh, and couldn't get the danged things on while seated -- so -- I'm sitting here at the keyboard, sort of fair to middling, stranded ---- think I'm going to have to abandon the attempt and go back to being a stand-up kind of guy. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " chaos is not our condition." --Charles Olson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 11:23:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: town gown etc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear J. Scappettone, I look forward to your new reading series. I must object however to your insistence that I don't know enough to speak of the University. I have a very long view of things here in Berkeley, being on one side of me and on one side of my husband fourth generation residents. Please note that my original comment about the "babyishness" of the students was _not_ actually a statement of any kind of fact or even really opinion, I just said they have never seemed so babyish to me. Note "seemed" and "to me". Perhaps this was too flip a statement, but it was definitely corralled by those two markers. I seem to find this list more conversational than you do, and will not be made to submit at all times to point by point analyses. I think humor and lots of other methods are often much more effective, and indeed are often the lovely products of analysis, point by point or otherwise. Your comment that you thank me in advance for my future cooperation and respect has really stuck with me. It annoys. It seems a bit "1984"-style. If this is a free country, dear, no one can presume my cooperation and respect. I am willing to have my compassion presumed. Thanks Elizabeth Treadwell "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 14:27:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed David!!!! So glad to see your signature here among us again -- I'm out here in the wilds of Pennsylvania, trying to get to the heart of the matter -- send poetry, quick! At 03:38 PM 10/2/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Isnt "massacre" the word for it? D <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " chaos is not our condition." --Charles Olson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:53:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: SEGUE / D O U B L E H A P P I N E S S calendar o=n=l=i=n=e MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The Double Happiness calendar for the months of October and November is now online: http://www.segue.org/calendar/ Bookmark this page -- it will be updated bi-monthly and will include links to resources about the readers. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 12:55:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Israel In-Reply-To: <20011001225349.52259.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" why is this a digression? At 3:53 PM -0700 10/1/01, Arielle Greenberg wrote: >I don't want to take the list further off course, but >I am completely wracked over this issue these days. >My family is very Zionist: we lived in Israel for a >number of years and, in fact, my grandfather lived >there as a child when it was Palestine and his mother >helped found the first modern Hebrew-speaking >kindergarden. >Anyway, I myself have a lot of problems with Israel, >not only in its relationship to the Palestinians but >also in its patriarchy, its internal racism, etc. And >agree with Maria that it is an experiment which may >have been done with some good intentions but also with >great carelessness and cruelty and very badly. In >fact, I'd say it's a test case for colonialism gone >awry. But now what? There are millions of Jews who >live there and feel like there is really no other >place for them to go, and this is largely because >there isn't. Many Israelis were kicked out or fled >from countries were they were being persecuted or >killed: the Soviet Union, Yemen, Germany, Lebanon, >Ethiopia, etc. This is no excuse for anything, it's >just a more complicating factor. The Jewish history >is that of the nomad, the refugee, the diaspora. Is >this the only way the world can function, with Jews in >that role? > >My two biggest questions: the UN -- the international >community, including the US -- got Israel into this >mess: what is the global community's role in getting >them out of it? > >And also: I think so much of the heat around this >issue stems from cultural identity: Jews like to think >of ourselves as the persecuted, not the persecutors. >Admiting what Israelis are doing to Palestinians, and >have been doing, and the bloody and unjust foundation >of the establishment of the nation would require a >completely new understanding of the Jewish self. > >And I already struggle with my own ethnic self-hatred, >so I have a field day here. And I read Celan, and >Kafka. > >Sorry to digress. > >Arielle > > >--- Maria Damon wrote: >> i for one would be happy to airlift all Jews --and >> anyone else who'd like >> to come along --in Israel to the united states and >> *then* allow the US to >> "abandon Israel." but i don't think they'd all want >> to come. Israel was >> an experiment that does not seem to have worked, but >> before abandoning it >> there must be some situation whereby Jews can live >> in safety. >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. >http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 12:59:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: <053c01c14aeb$75973ba0$2e442718@ruthfd1.tn.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" today in the "variety" section of the minneapolis star-tribune the lead story was on "selling patriotism" and the photo was, of course, a half-page huge USA flag. At 9:39 PM -0500 10/1/01, Thomas Bell wrote: >something that interests me here is that only three weeks after the 'event' >the media seems to have succeeded to some extent in 'blanding' down the >whole thing into consumable bits that fit into news slots. I hope it's not >on it's way to becoming another advertising wave of McDonald's toys. > >tom bell > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "tracy shaun ruggles" >> I seem to be stuck in using "after it all started happening" when >referring >> to things I did that that day or soon after. And, now just "the thing on >> the 11th". I have a friend whose birthday is that day. Another who was >> coming out of a concussion from a fall the night before wondering if she >was >> still dreaming. >> >> It's all fairly name-less. Maybe it's because the media and marketing >> machines have gotten so good at subverting the language for fast >> thought-transfers. Anything that we name now seems to be "false" because >it >> sounds like someone in the media came up with it. >> >> This disturbs me now... that a an amorphous system like the media can so >> control our language that we (or at least I) feel uncomfortable naming >> things. Has it always been this way? Or is this event, the thing on the >> 11th, really so hard to distill? Or, does this event bring to light the >> "violence of naming" (such a strange phrase now)? Naming it seems to >reduce >> it. It is such a tangled web that any name becomes limiting and makes >> invisible some other important part that we don't want to forget... >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:48:47 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: <053c01c14aeb$75973ba0$2e442718@ruthfd1.tn.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit McDonald's toys? How about . . . GI Joe Terrorist Hijacker Action Figures! Complete with disguises, fake airport clearance badges, copies of the Quran, and other items carefully selected to fit our prejudicial imaginations about what terrorists should really look like. They just released their Pearl Harbor line: http://www.gijoe.com "Give me a child before he's five..." What I just wrote was so unfunny that I just puked on my shoes. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Thomas Bell > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 10:39 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: The language of our times > > > something that interests me here is that only three weeks after > the 'event' > the media seems to have succeeded to some extent in 'blanding' down the > whole thing into consumable bits that fit into news slots. I > hope it's not > on it's way to becoming another advertising wave of McDonald's toys. > > tom bell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tracy shaun ruggles" > > I seem to be stuck in using "after it all started happening" when > referring > > to things I did that that day or soon after. And, now just > "the thing on > > the 11th". I have a friend whose birthday is that day. Another who was > > coming out of a concussion from a fall the night before wondering if she > was > > still dreaming. > > > > It's all fairly name-less. Maybe it's because the media and marketing > > machines have gotten so good at subverting the language for fast > > thought-transfers. Anything that we name now seems to be > "false" because > it > > sounds like someone in the media came up with it. > > > > This disturbs me now... that a an amorphous system like the media can so > > control our language that we (or at least I) feel uncomfortable naming > > things. Has it always been this way? Or is this event, the > thing on the > > 11th, really so hard to distill? Or, does this event bring to light the > > "violence of naming" (such a strange phrase now)? Naming it seems to > reduce > > it. It is such a tangled web that any name becomes limiting and makes > > invisible some other important part that we don't want to forget... > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:53:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: Thank you, List! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you, Marjorie --- practically the first lit crit I ever read was a piece of yours about Robert Lowell, and it was wise as well as tremendously intelligent -- a great launching point, one of those things where you look to memorize the name of the author in case you ever come across that writer again. happy 70th, and many more. Laura Fargas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:06:57 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Job Opening Comments: cc: Gwyn McVay In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as in . . . Land, Deforrest, Cove, & Knight Hart, Evers, Towel, Hander, Frye Wood, Lane, Zephyr, Hull, Syms, & Bly? > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gwyn McVay > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 7:27 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Job Opening > > > "Here's a copy of the job ad my dept will be running in the MLA job list > soon--as some of you may know, we are searching to fill the vacancy left > by John Taggart's retirement. > > best, > > Michael Bibby > Dept. of English > Shippensburg University" > > I am disillusioned. You mean he's not a senior partner at Taggart, > Taggart, Byrne, & Bright? > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:09:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: New @ Bridge Street: Armantrout, Hejinian, McCaffery, Mackey, Notley, Spahr, Angel Hair Anth, &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These are great days for new poetry. Ordering & discount information at the end of the list. Thanks for your support. 1 _Veil: New and Selected Poems_, Rae Armantrout, Wesleyan, $16.95. "With whom / do you leave yourself / during reveries?" 2 _Your Name Here_, John Ashbery, FSG, $13. New in paperback. "Why do I tell you these things? / You are not even here." 3 _The Unfinished System of Nonknowledge_, Georges Bataille, Minnesota, $39.95. Essays, aphorisims, lectures, and notes on nonknowledge, sovereignty, and sacrifice. 4 _Fugue State_, Bill Berkson, Zoland, $13. "Ecstasy is near." 5 _Fearless Speech_, Michel Foucault, Semiotext(e), $11.95. Lectures, 1983, UC Berkeley, on _parahesia_. "Someone is said to use _parahesia_ and merits consideration as a _parahesiastes_ only if there is a risk or danger for him in telling the truth. 6 _Power : Essential Works Volume 3_, Michel Foucault, New Press, $19.95. New in paperback. 7 _A Border Comedy_, Lyn Hejinian, Granary, $15.95. "But the truth is always confined to what it is true about" 8 _Prior to Meaning: The Protosemantic and Poetics_, Steve McCaffery, Northwestern, $29.95. Collects over a decade of writing on poetry, language and theory. _Prior to Meaning_ works to undo the bifurcation between theory and practice--- to show how a poetic text might be the source rather than the product of the theoretical principles against which it can be read. 9 _ATET A.D._, Nathaniel Mackey, City Lights, $13.95. The third volume in Mackey's ongoing epistolary fiction, _From a Broken Bottle Traces of Perfume Still Emanate_. 10 _The 3:15 Experiment_, Bernadetter Mayer, Lee Ann Brown, Jen Hofer, & Danika Dinsmore, The Owl Press, $14.95. Over the course of a month each of these poets woke or waited til 3:15 AM, & wrote. "approximate lines incite / /partners in crime, or just / partners, or just crime" 11 _Disobedience_, Alice Notley, Penguin, $18. "one reason the story / is discontinuous is that it is," 12 _Fuck You - Aloha - I Love You_, Juliana Spahr, Wesleyan, $12.95. "Words that flip switches." 13 _The Angel Hair Anthology_, ed Anne Waldman & Lewis Warsh, Granary, $18.95. Over 600 pages, one of the great NY School magazines. Acconci, Anderson, Ashbery, Bathurst, Berkson, Berrigan, Borregaard, Brainard, Brodey, Brownstein, Bye, Carey, Carroll, Carter, Ceravelo, Clark, Coolidge, Corbett, Cott, Creeley, Denby, Dennis, Duncan, Ellingham, Elmslie, Fagin, Ferrari, Gallup, Gilfillan, Giorno, Greenwald, Guest, Guy, Harwood, Kaplan, Katz, Kearney, Koch, Kohler, Kyger, &&&, that's just A-K! Some Bestsellers: _Empire_, Michael Hardt & Antonio Negri, Harvard, $18.95. _The Pretext_, Rae Armantrout, Green Integer, $9.95. _100 Days_, ed Andrea Brady & Keston Sutherland, Barque Press, $15. _Microclimates_, Taylor Brady, Krupskaya, $9. _Chain #8 / Comics_, ed Spahr, Osman, Sullivan, Zweig, & Greenberg, $12. Ancestors_, Kamau Brathwaite, $35. _Metropolis 1-15_, Robert Fitterman, Sun & Moon, $11.95. _Spin Cycle: Selected Essays and Reviews 1989-1999_, Chris Stroffolino, Spuyten Duyvil, $16. _Again: Poems 1989-2000_, Joanne Kyger, La Alameda Press, $16. _Talking_, David Antin, Dalkey Archive, $12.50. _Ogress Oblige_, Dorothy Trujillo Lusk, Krupskaya, $9. _M/E/A/N/I/N/G: An Anthology of Artists' Writings, Theory, & Criticism_, ed Bee & Schor, Duke, $22.95. _Bombay Gin #27_, ed Corpuz & Pierce, $10. _The Weather_, Lisa Robertson, New Star, $12. _Everybody's Autonomy: Connective Reading and Collective Identity_, Juliana Spahr, $24.95. _Goan Atom_, Caroline Bergvall, Krupskaya, $9. _Argento Series_, Kevin Killian, Krupskaya, $9. _Anarchy_, John Cage, Wesleyan, $25. _New American Writing 19: Special Section on Clark Coolidge_, $!0. _Drawn & Quartered_, Robert Creeley, Granary, $15.95. _Push the Mule_, John Godfrey, Figures, $12.50. _Genders, Races, and Religious Cultures in Modern American Poetry 1908-1934_, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Cambridge, $22.95. _Leaving Lines of Gender: A Feminist Genealogy of Language Writing_, Ann Vickery, $24.95. _Surrealist Painters & Poets: An Anthology_, ed Mary Ann Caws, $49.95. _A Menorah for Athena: Charles Reznikoff and the Jewish Dilemmas of Objectivist Poetry_, Stephen Fredman, $16.95. _vocoder_, Judith Goldman, Roof, $10.95 _Joe Brainard: A Retrospective_, Constance M. Lewallen, $29.95. _On the Nameways Volume 2_, Clark Coolidge, $12.50. _Lip Service_, Bruce Andrews, $22.95. _The Beginner_, Lyn Hejinian, Spectacular Books, $6. _Comp._, Kevin Davies, $12.50. _Imagining Language: An Anthology_, ed. Jed Rasula and Steve McCaffery, MIT, $29.95. _The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You, Frank Stanford, $18. _Ring of Fire_, Lisa Jarnot, Zoland, $13. _Prepositions + : The Collected Critical Essays_, Louis Zukofsky, $16.95. _Big Allis 9_, ed Melanie Neilson & Dierdre Kovac, $10. _Ace_, Tom Raworth, $10. _Seven Pages Missing: Selected Texts Volume One, 1969-1999_, Steve McCaffery, $22.95. _New Mannerist Tricycle_, Jarnot, Luoma, & Smith, $8. _Indivisible: A Novel_, Fanny Howe, $11.95. _Aerial 9: Bruce Andrews_, ed Rod Smith, $15. _Modern Poetry and the Idea of Language: A Critical and Historical Study_, Gerald Bruns, $13.95. _The Language of Inquiry_, Lyn Hejinian, $17.95. _The Sonnets_, Ted Berrigan, intro & notes by Alice Notley, $16. Poetics list member receive free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping + a 10% discount on orders of more than $30. There are two ways to order. 1. E-mail your order to aerialedge@aol.com with your address & we will bill you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr add, order, card #, & expiration date & we will send a receipt with the books. We must charge shipping for orders out of the US. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:12:33 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: (orwell quote) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah Orwell had Britain and the US in mind when writing _1984_, but the 1984 edition of _1984_ had a foreward by Walter Cronkite comparing the nation in the book to the Soviet Union. Totalitarians need Orwell. It quickly becomes part of their doublespeak. It is entirely predictable and there's really no way to approach it except to systematically ignore it. gestures of power need observers, after all. P > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of tracy shaun > ruggles > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 12:57 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: (orwell quote) > > > Regarding Orwell, right now Dr. Laura and Rush Limbaugh are > quoting the hell > out of him when he spoke out against the Pacifists during WWII. It was > something along the lines of, "those peace activists are patently > pro-fascist". > > They are both hammering down their listeners' ears the either/or mentality > of "if you're not with me, you're against me". How does one intelligently > side-step that debate? > > Binary thinking inherently discards anything that doesn't fit > with the right > side of the equation, even if the debate tries to step outside the system > and show another way. > > --Tracy > > on 9/30/01 11:01 PM, gene at genegrab@ADELPHIA.NET wrote: > > > "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell > people what > > they do not want to > > hear." > > -- George Orwell > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:09:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Post-WTC Review of Empire by Hardt & Negri Comments: To: UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, klobucar@interchange.ubc.ca, ssava@sfu.ca, easter-island@sfu.ca, ksw-collective@sfu.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The recent London Review of Books has a worthwhile article on Empire, by Malcolm Bull. I don't endorse the importation of Isaiah Berlin's tired conceptual apparatus of "positive & negative freedom" in order to debunk autonomist political theory, but, well: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n19/bull2319.htm Theres' also a brief statement by Michael Hardt at: http://slash.autonomedia.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/26/1250203 Excerpt from Bull: If the 'war against terrorism' is going to be less of a fiasco than the 'war on drugs', it requires global social inclusivity and reciprocity. Total social control involves a degree of microregulation with which individuals have to co-operate. One way totalitarian societies have differed from those that are merely authoritarian is in their provision of work and healthcare. (If you want to keep track of people you cannot abandon them when they are unemployed or sick.) The link between welfare and totalitarianism works both ways: social regulation and inclusion go together. If the US wants to make the world a safer place, it will eventually have to offer, or force other governments to provide, the population of the entire world with the means to participate in global society. This will involve real constraints on the operation of the market, particularly finance capital. Tuesday, 11 September 2001 may prove to be the date at which Neoliberalism and globalisation parted company. 'Nous sommes tous Américains,' proclaimed the editorial in Le Monde. And not just those who were horrified by the hijackings: the attack on New York and Washington was not an act of war against a foreign enemy (it had no strategic value) but a protest that implicitly acknowledged the sovereignty of the United States. 'I am an American Airlines pilot,' boasted one hijacker, drinking in his local bar. A mixture of black humour and wishful thinking no doubt, but a clear indication of psychological proximity. If Americans fail to understand why their country is hated, it is often because they barely comprehend the extent of its influence. No one travels halfway round the world to kill themselves amid a people with whom they feel no connection. Even in the Arabian desert, America is uncomfortably close. For the US, it may seem like a foreign war, but on the other side it is more like a civil war, dividing families - the bin Ladens, for instance. One thing that the hijackings have brought to the surface is the extent to which 'the primordial founding myth' of a total society is already available in the history of the United States. At one level, Hardt and Negri recognise this. Their work is free of the European Left's residual anti-Americanism and represents a systematic effort to appropriate the American myth for the global multitude. But theirs is the America of potentia not of potestas. They miss the point that even if the multitude could create its own Americas, it would be stronger under the sovereignty of the existing one - not just materially better off, but better able to bring about its social and political objectives. The international Left's few successes of the past fifty years - decolonisation, anti-racism, the women's movement, cultural anti-authoritarianism - have all had proper (and often official) backing from within the United States. The United States is no utopia, but a utopian politics now has to be routed through it. Anti-globalisation is often an argument for the globalisation of American norms - why should workers in the Philippines have fewer rights than their American counterparts? Israel will join the list of 'rogue states' only when the United States becomes more representative of the population of the world. The totalitarian regimes of the 20th century got a bad name less because of their monopolistic control of everyday life than on account of their stifling insistence on a maxim of shared values, and their draconian punishments for nonconformity. They were, in Durkheimian terms, attempts to create total communities rather than total societies. The US offers a model for a different type of totalitarianism. Within a total society - a world of universal anomie populated by the hybridised subjects of mutual recognition - monopolistic microregulation need not be concerned with conformity. Of course, a global United States is not a total society, but total society is rapidly becoming more imaginable than the state of nature from which political theorising has traditionally started. In this situation, we need to start thinking in new ways. Negri's version of what Althusser called 'totality without closure' is a politics without a social contract, 'a constituent power without limitations'. But in a total society, it is not the social that needs a contract but the individual - an anti-social contract that creates individual spaces in a world totally regulated by meaningless mutuality. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:30:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: cat/housesitter in San Francisco Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi, Kevin and I will be on the East Coast October 17-24. We've got two cats and a centrally-located South of Market apartment. Any cat lovers out there who'd like to stay here while we're gone? Backchannel, please. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 20:35:42 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miguel vallejo Subject: about Marjorie Perloff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello, I am a new member of the Poetics listserv. Here at the UNAM (the National Autonomous University of Mexico) there is a group of us, American Literature students all, who very much like Marjorie Perloff. We read her books and study them together. We find that while it is extraordinarily difficult sometimes to read some books of literary theory in English, that the books and articles of Professor Perloff are always clear and full with wanting to say what they set out to say (el contenido viene con su propio sastre, as we say-- the content comes handy with its own tailor). Que los cumpla feliz, Marjorie Perloff! Felicidades! Y gracias por sus trabajos tan claros, generosos, y magnificos. Miguel Vallejo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 23:06:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Fall Workshops at the Poetry Project In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Please inform. Where is the poetry workshop? How may I sign up? Thanks. Gene At 06:43 PM 9/28/01 -0400, you wrote: >The Poetry Project will offer three weekly writing workshops in Fall 2001. >Beginning in mid-October, the workshops will run through mid-January. >Workshops at the Poetry Project provide access to innovative techniques and >practices of writing not usually available in more mainstream venues. > >..AND NOT NEITHER, EITHER: A POEM-STORY WORKSHOP taught by SHARON MESMER >(TUESDAY EVENINGS 7-9 P.M.; 10 SESSIONS; BEGINS OCTOBER 16) >A poem-story begins in poetry, with heightened language, imagery, and >rhythm, but moves quickly into story via traditional narrative elements of >set-up, conflict, resolution, and perspective (for example, Octavio Paz's >"My Life with the Wave"). To generate these "poem-stories," we will read >model texts and do in-class writing experiments (cut-ups, "Third Mind" >experiments, word collages, assemblages of juxtaposed journal notes - >methods normally associated with the writing of poetry -) to generate ideas, >scenes, characters, conflicts, even dialogue, then work with the raw >material to discover the potential story and create and sustain the >narrative. Our goal? To engage the dynamics of poetry and story with equal >intensity. > >SHARON MESMER is the author of Half Angel, Half Lunch (poems, Hard Press, >1998), and The Empty Quarter (stories, Hanging Loose Press, 2000). She >teaches literature and fiction-writing at the New School University. Her >work has appeared in the anthologies Heights of the Marvelous, Poems for the >Nation (edited by Allen Ginsberg), and The Outlaw Bible of American Poetry. > > > >CROWNING SONNETS: POETRY WORKSHOP taught by PATRICIA SPEARS JONES (FRIDAY >EVENINGS 7-9 P.M.; 10 SESSIONS; BEGINS OCTOBER 19) >During this workshop, we will look at traditional and nontraditional sonnets >from Sharespeare to Millay to Molly Peacock and others and explore thir >connection to the work that paricipants are doing. We will also look at >contemporary odes and other lyric forms to help spark new ideas and new >poems from participants. This is a workshop for poets who want to informally >explore the dyanmics of the sonnet and create new ones as well as work on >poems that reflect their personal style. The goal of the workshop will be >the creation of a crown of sonnets (7) on a single theme by each of the >participants. >Those interested in taking the Crowning Sonnets workshop are asked to submit >(1) a selection of 10 poems and (2) a brief history of other classes, >workshops or poetic studies to the Poetry Project by OCTOBER 5TH. > >PATRICIA SPEARS JONES is a poet, playwright and author of the collection, >The Weather That Kills (Coffee House Press, 1995) and the play Mother, >produced by Mabou Mines in 1994. Her poems have been anthologized over the >past two decades most recently in Best American Poetry 2000 (Scribners), >Blood and Tears: Poems for Matthew Shepard and Real Things: An Anthology of >Popular Cutlture in America. > > > >POETRY WORKSHOP taught by ANSELM BERRIGAN (Saturday afternoons 12-2 p.m.; 10 >sessions; begins October 20) Reading, Writing, Discussion. poem as site of >arrangement. metaphysics of using cut language and stealing (from yourself, >among others). reporting and rewriting. process, and suspicion thereof. how >many different places are there to write from? timing, unconscious >allegory, eco-systems, comedy, documentation, dreams, elegies, mind matter, >rhythm. > >ANSELM BERRIGAN is the author of Integrity & Dramatic Life, and Zero Star >Hotel, forthcoming this fall from Edge books. He has taught poetry classes >at Naropa University and Rutgers University. > > > >THE WORKSHOP FEE IS $250, which includes tuition for classes and an >individual membership in the Poetry Project for one year. Payment must be >received in advance. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 17:02:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: poetics list stats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Country Subscribers ------- ----------- Australia 16 Austria 1 Belgium 2 Canada 41 Denmark 1 Finland 2 France 1 Germany 3 Great Britain 18 India 1 Ireland 5 Israel 1 Italy 1 Japan 5 New Zealand 12 Niue 1 Romania 1 Singapore 1 Spain 3 Sweden 3 Switzerland 2 Taiwan 1 Thailand 1 USA 797 Yugoslavia 1 Total number of users subscribed to the list: 923 Total number of countries represented: 25 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 17:05:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Christopher W. Alexander" Subject: Fwd: Arundhati Roy on the coming war - "The Algebra of Infinite Justice" (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sun, Sep 30, 2001 21:49 -0400 From: Yunte Huang To: cwa@acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: Fwd: Arundhati Roy on the coming war - "The Algebra of Infinite Justice" Dear Chris, How are you? How's life? Could you help me post the following excellent article to the Poetics List? My best, Yunte > >From the magazine "OUTLOOK" > >The Algebra Of Infinite Justice > >So here we have it. The equivocating distinction >between civilisation and savagery, between the >'massacre of innocent people' or, if you like, 'a >clash of civilisations' and 'collateral damage'. The >sophistry and fastidious algebra of Infinite >Justice... Free Speech > >ARUNDHATI ROY > >In the aftermath of the unconscionable September 11 >suicide attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade >Center, an American newscaster said: "Good and Evil >rarely manifest themselves as clearly as they did last >Tuesday. People who we don't know, massacred people >who we do. And they did so with contemptuous glee." >Then he broke down and wept. >Here's the rub: America is at war against people it >doesn't know (because they don't appear much on TV). >Before it has properly identified or even begun to >comprehend the nature of its enemy, the US government >has, in a rush of publicity and embarrassing rhetoric, >cobbled together an "International Coalition Against >Terror", mobilised its army, its airforce, its navy >and its media, and committed them to battle. > >The trouble is that once America goes off to war, it >can't very well return without having fought one. If >it doesn't find its enemy, for the sake of the enraged >folks back home, it will have to manufacture one. Once >war begins, it will develop a momentum, a logic and a >justification of its own, and we'll lose sight of why >it's being fought in the first place. > >What we're witnessing here is the spectacle of the >world's most powerful country, reaching reflexively, >angrily, for an old instinct to fight a new kind of >war. Suddenly, when it comes to defending itself, >America's streamlined warships, its Cruise missiles >and F-16 jets look like obsolete, lumbering things. As >deterrence, its arsenal of nuclear bombs is no longer >worth its weight in scrap. Box-cutters, penknives, and >cold anger are the weapons with which the wars of the >new century will be waged. Anger is the lock pick. It >slips through customs unnoticed. Doesn't show up in >baggage checks. > >Who is America fighting? On September 20, the FBI said >that it had doubts about the identities of some of the >hijackers. On the same day, President George W. Bush >said: "We know exactly who these people are and which >governments are supporting them." It sounds as though >the President knows something that the FBI and the >American public don't. > >In his September 20 address to the US Congress, >President Bush called the enemies of America "Enemies >of Freedom". > >"Americans are asking why do they hate us?" he said. >"They hate our freedoms=97our freedom of religion, our >freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble >and disagree with each other." People are being asked >to make two leaps of faith here. First, to assume that >The Enemy is who the US government says it is, even >though it has no substantial evidence to support that >claim. And second, to assume that The Enemy's motives >are what the US government says they are, and there's >nothing to support that either. > >For strategic, military and economic reasons, it is >vital for the US government to persuade the American >public that America's commitment to freedom and >democracy and the American Way of Life is under >attack. In the current atmosphere of grief, outrage >and anger, it's an easy notion to peddle. However, if >that were true, it's reasonable to wonder why the >symbols of America's economic and military >dominance=97the World Trade Center and the Pentagon=97were >chosen as the targets of the attacks. Why not the >Statue of Liberty? Could it be that the stygian anger >that led to the attacks has its taproot not in >American freedom and democracy, but in the US >government's record of commitment and support to >exactly the opposite things=97to military and economic >terrorism, insurgency, military dictatorship, >religious bigotry and unimaginable genocide (outside >America)? > >It must be hard for ordinary Americans so recently >bereaved to look up at the world with their eyes full >of tears and encounter what might appear to them to be >indifference. It isn't indifference. It's just augury. >An absence of surprise. The tired wisdom of knowing >that what goes around, eventually comes around. >American people ought to know that it is not them, but >their government's policies that are so hated. They >can't possibly doubt that they themselves, their >extraordinary musicians, their writers, their actors, >their spectacular sportsmen and their cinema, are >universally welcomed. > >All of us have been moved by the courage and grace >shown by firefighters, rescue workers and ordinary >office-goers in the days and weeks that followed the >attacks. > >America's grief at what happened has been immense and >immensely public. It would be grotesque to expect it >to calibrate or modulate its anguish. However, it will >be a pity if, instead of using this as an opportunity >to try and understand why September 11 happened, >Americans use it as an opportunity to usurp the whole >world's sorrow to mourn and avenge only their own. >Because then it falls to the rest of us to ask the >hard questions and say the harsh things. And for our >pains, for our bad timing, we will be disliked, >ignored and perhaps eventually silenced. > >The world will probably never know what motivated >those particular hijackers who flew planes into those >particular American buildings. They were not glory >boys. They left no suicide notes, no political >messages, no organisation has claimed credit for the >attacks. All we know is that their belief in what they >were doing outstripped the natural human instinct for >survival or any desire to be remembered. It's almost >as though they could not scale down the enormity of >their rage to anything smaller than their deeds. And >what they did has blown a hole in the world as we know >it. In the absence of information, politicians, >political commentators, writers (like myself) will >invest the act with their own politics, with their own >interpretations. This speculation, this analysis of >the political climate in which the attacks took place, >can only be a good thing. > >But war is looming large. Whatever remains to be said, >must be said quickly. >Before America places itself at the helm of the >"international coalition against terror", before it >invites (and coerces) countries to actively >participate in its almost godlike mission=97Operation >Infinite Justice=97it would help if some small >clarifications are made. For example, Infinite Justice >for whom? Is this America's War against Terror in >America or against Terror in general? What exactly is >being avenged here? Is it the tragic loss of almost >7,000 lives, the gutting of 5 million square feet of >office space in Manhattan, the destruction of a >section of the Pentagon, the loss of several hundreds >of thousands of jobs, the bankruptcy of some airline >companies and the dip in the New York Stock Exchange? >Or is it more than that? > >In 1996, Madeleine Albright, then US Secretary of >State, was asked on national television what she felt >about the fact that 5,00,000 Iraqi children had died >as a result of US economic sanctions. She replied that >it was "a very hard choice", but that all things >considered, "we think the price is worth it." >Madeleine Albright never lost her job for saying this. >She continued to travel the world representing the >views and aspirations of the US government. More >pertinently, the sanctions against Iraq remain in >place. Children continue to die. > >So here we have it. The equivocating distinction >between civilisation and savagery, between the >'massacre of innocent people' or, if you like, 'a >clash of civilisations' and 'collateral damage'. The >sophistry and fastidious algebra of Infinite Justice. >How many dead Iraqis will it take to make the world a >better place? How many dead Afghans for every dead >American? How many dead women and children for every >dead man? How many dead mujahideen for each dead >investment banker? > >As we watch mesmerised, Operation Infinite Justice >unfolds on TV monitors across the world. A coalition >of the world's superpowers is closing in on >Afghanistan, one of the poorest, most ravaged, >war-torn countries in the world, whose ruling Taliban >government is sheltering Osama bin Laden, the man >being held responsible for the September 11 attacks. > >The only thing in Afghanistan that could possibly >count as collateral value is its citizenry. (Among >them, half a million maimed orphans. There are >accounts of hobbling stampedes that occur when >artificial limbs are airdropped into remote, >inaccessible villages.) Afghanistan's economy is in a >shambles. In fact, the problem for an invading army is >that Afghanistan has no conventional coordinates or >signposts to plot on a military map=97no big cities, no >highways, no industrial complexes, no water treatment >plants. Farms have been turned into mass graves. The >countryside is littered with landmines=9710 million is >the most recent estimate. The American army would >first have to clear the mines and build roads in order >to take its soldiers in. > >Fearing an attack from America, one million citizens >have fled from their homes and arrived at the border >between Pakistan and Afghanistan. As supplies run >out=97food and aid agencies have been asked to leave=97the >BBC reports that one of the worst humanitarian >disasters of recent times has begun to unfold. Witness >the Infinite Justice of the new century. Civilians >starving to death, while they're waiting to be killed. > > >By contributing to the killing of Afghan civilians, >the US government will only end up helping the Taliban >cause. > >In America there has been rough talk of "bombing >Afghanistan back to the stone age". Someone please >break the news that Afghanistan is already there. And >if it's any consolation, America played no small part >in helping it on its way. The American people may be a >little fuzzy about where exactly Afghanistan is (we >hear reports that there's a run on maps of >Afghanistan), but the US government and Afghanistan >are old friends. In 1979, after the Soviet invasion of >Afghanistan, the CIA and Pakistan's ISI >(Inter-Services Intelligence) launched the largest >covert operation in the history of the CIA. Their >purpose was to harness the energy of Afghan resistance >to the Soviets and expand it into a holy war, an >Islamic jehad, which would turn Muslim countries >within the Soviet Union against the Communist regime >and eventually destabilise it. When it began, it was >meant to be the Soviet Union's Vietnam. It turned out >to be much more than that. Over the years, the CIA >funded and recruited almost 1,00,000 radical >mujahideen from 40 Islamic countries as soldiers for >America's proxy war. The rank and file of the >mujahideen were unaware that their jehad was actually >being fought on behalf of Uncle Sam.(The irony is that >America was equally unaware that it was financing a >future war against itself). > >By 1989, after being bloodied by 10 years of >relentless conflict, the Russians withdrew, leaving >behind a civilisation reduced to rubble. Civil war in >Afghanistan raged on. The jehad spread to Chechnya, >Kosovo and eventually to Kashmir. The CIA continued to >pour in money and military equipment, but the >overheads had become immense, and more money was >needed. The mujahideen ordered farmers to plant opium >as 'revolutionary tax'. The ISI set up hundreds of >heroin laboratories across Afghanistan. Within two >years of the CIA's arrival, the Pakistan-Afghanistan >borderland had become the biggest producer of heroin >in the world, and the single biggest source on >American streets. > >The annual profits, said to be between 100 and 200 >billion dollars, were ploughed back into training and >arming militants. > >In 1995, the Taliban=97then a marginal sect of >dangerous, hardline fundamentalists=97fought its way to >power in Afghanistan. It was funded by the ISI, that >old cohort of the CIA, and supported by many political >parties in Pakistan. The Taliban unleashed a regime of >terror. Its first victims were its own people, >particularly women. It closed down girls' schools, >dismissed women from government jobs, enforced Sharia >laws in which women deemed to be 'immoral' are stoned >to death, and widows guilty of being adulterous are >buried alive. Given the Taliban government's human >rights track record, it seems unlikely that it will in >any way be intimidated or swerved from its purpose by >the prospect of war, or the threat to the lives of its >civilians. > >After all that has happened, can there be anything >more ironic than Russia and America joining hands to >re-destroy Afghanistan? The question is, can you >destroy destruction? Dropping more bombs on >Afghanistan will only shuffle the rubble, scramble >some old graves and disturb the dead. > >The desolate landscape of Afghanistan was the burial >ground of Soviet Communism and the springboard of a >unipolar world dominated by America. It made the space >for neo-capitalism and corporate globalisation, again >dominated by America. And now Afghanistan is poised to >be the graveyard for the unlikely soldiers who fought >and won this war for America. >And what of America's trusted ally? Pakistan too has >suffered enormously. The US government has not been >shy of supporting military dictators who have blocked >the idea of democracy from taking root in the country. >Before the CIA arrived, there was a small rural market >for opium in Pakistan. Between 1979 and 1985, the >number of heroin addicts grew from zero to one and a >half million. There are three million Afghan refugees >living in tented camps along the border. Pakistan's >economy is crumbling. Sectarian violence, >globalisation's Structural Adjustment programmes and >drug lords are tearing the country to pieces. Set up >to fight the Soviets, the terrorist training centres >and madrassas, sown like dragon's teeth across the >country, produced fundamentalists with tremendous >popular appeal within Pakistan itself. The Taliban, >who the Pakistan government has supported, funded and >propped up for years, has material and strategic >alliances with Pakistan's own political parties. Now >the US government is asking (asking?) Pakistan to >garrot the pet it has hand-reared in its backyard for >so many years. President Musharraf, having pledged his >support to the US, could well find he has something >resembling civil war on his hands. > >India, thanks in part to its geography, and in part to >the vision of its former leaders, has so far been >fortunate enough to be left out of this Great Game. >Had it been drawn in, it's more than likely that our >democracy, such as it is, would not have survived. >Today, as some of us watch in horror, the Indian >government is furiously gyrating its hips, begging the >US to set up its base in India rather than Pakistan. >Having had this ringside view of Pakistan's sordid >fate, it isn't just odd, it's unthinkable that India >should want to do this. Any Third World country with a >fragile economy and a complex social base should know >by now that to invite a superpower like America in >(whether it says it's staying or just passing through) >would be like inviting a brick to drop through your >windscreen. > >In the media blitz that followed the September 11 >events, no mainstream TV station thought it fit to >tell the story of America's involvement with >Afghanistan. So, to those unfamiliar with the story, >the coverage of the attacks could have been moving, >disturbing and perhaps to cynics, self-indulgent. >However, to those of us who are familiar with >Afghanistan's recent history, American television >coverage and the rhetoric of the "International >Coalition Against Terror" is just plain insulting. >America's 'free press' like its 'free market' has a >lot to account for. > >Operation Infinite Justice is ostensibly being fought >to uphold the American Way of Life. It'll probably end >up undermining it completely. It will spawn more anger >and more terror across the world. For ordinary people >in America, it will mean lives lived in a climate of >sickening uncertainty: will my child be safe in >school? Will there be nerve gas in the subway? A bomb >in the cinema hall? Will my love come home tonight? >Already CNN is warning people against the possibility >of biological warfare=97small pox, bubonic plague, >anthrax=97being waged by innocuous crop duster aircraft. >Being picked off a few at a time may end up being >worse than being annihilated all at once by a nuclear >bomb. > >The US government, and no doubt governments all over >the world, will use the climate of war as an excuse to >curtail civil liberties, deny free speech, lay off >workers, harass ethnic and religious minorities, cut >back on public spending and divert huge amounts of >money to the defence industry. > >To what purpose? President George Bush can no more >"rid the world of evil-doers" than he can stock it >with saints. It's absurd for the US government to even >toy with the notion that it can stamp out terrorism >with more violence and oppression. Terrorism is the >symptom, not the disease. Terrorism has no country. >It's transnational, as global an enterprise as Coke or >Pepsi or Nike. At the first sign of trouble, >terrorists can pull up stakes and move their >'factories' from country to country in search of a >better deal. Just like the multinationals. > >Terrorism as a phenomenon may never go away. But if it >is to be contained, the first step is for America to >at least acknowledge that it shares the planet with >other nations, with other human beings, who, even if >they are not on TV, have loves and griefs and stories >and songs and sorrows and, for heaven's sake, rights. >Instead, when Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence >Secretary, was asked what he would call a victory in >America's New War, he said that if he could convince >the world that Americans must be allowed to continue >with their way of life, he would consider it a >victory. > >The September 11 attacks were a monstrous calling card >from a world gone horribly wrong. The message may have >been written by Osama bin Laden (who knows?) and >delivered by his couriers, but it could well have been >signed by the ghosts of the victims of America's old >wars. > >The millions killed in Korea, Vietnam and Cambodia, >the 17,500 killed when Israel=97backed by the US=97invaded >Lebanon in 1982, the 2,00,000 Iraqis killed in >Operation Desert Storm, the thousands of Palestinians >who have died fighting Israel's occupation of the West >Bank. And the millions who died, in Yugoslavia, >Somalia, Haiti, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador, the >Dominican republic, Panama, at the hands of all the >terrorists, dictators and genocidists who the American >government supported, trained, bankrolled and supplied >with arms. > >And this is far from being a comprehensive list. For a >country involved in so much warfare and conflict, the >American people have been extremely fortunate. The >strikes on September 11 were only the second on >American soil in over a century. The first was Pearl >Harbour. The reprisal for this took a long route, >but ended with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This time the >world waits with bated breath for the horrors to come. > >Someone recently said that if Osama bin Laden didn't >exist, America would have had to invent him. But, in a >way, America did invent him. He was among the jehadis >who moved to Afghanistan in 1979 when the CIA >commenced operations. Osama bin Laden has the >distinction of being created by the CIA and wanted by >the FBI. In the course of a fortnight, he has been >promoted from Suspect, to Prime Suspect, and then, >despite the lack of any real evidence, straight up the >charts to being "wanted dead or alive". > > >From all accounts, it will be impossible to produce >evidence (of the sort that would stand scrutiny in a >court of law) to link Osama bin Laden to the September >11 attacks. So far, it appears that the most >incriminating piece of evidence against him is the >fact that he has not condemned them. > > >From what is known about the location and the living >conditions from which Osama bin Laden operates, it's >entirely possible that he did not personally plan and >carry out the attacks=97that he is the inspirational >figure, 'the CEO of the Holding Company'. > >The Taliban's response to US demands for the >extradition of Osama bin Laden has been >uncharacteristically reasonable: Produce the evidence, >we'll hand him over. President Bush's response is that >the demand is "non-negotiable". > >(While talks are on for the extradition of CEOs=97can >India put in a side-request for the extradition of >Warren Anderson of the USA? He was Chairman of Union >Carbide, responsible for the Bhopal gas leak that >killed 16,000 people in 1984. We have collated the >necessary evidence. It's all in the files. Could we >have him, please?) > >But who is Osama bin Laden really? > >Let me rephrase that. What is Osama bin Laden? > >He's America's family secret. He is the American >President's dark doppelganger. The savage twin of all >that purports to be beautiful and civilised. He has >been sculpted from the spare rib of a world laid to >waste by America's foreign policy: its gunboat >diplomacy, its nuclear arsenal, its vulgarly stated >policy of "full spectrum dominance", its chilling >disregard for non-American lives, its barbarous >military interventions, its support for despotic and >dictatorial regimes, its merciless economic agenda >that has munched through the economies of poor >countries like a cloud of locusts. Its marauding >multinationals who are taking over the air we breathe, >the ground we stand on, the water we drink, the >thoughts we think. > >Now that the family secret has been spilled, the twins >are blurring into one another and gradually becoming >interchangeable. Their guns, bombs, money and drugs >have been going around in the loop for a while. (The >Stinger missiles that will greet US helicopters were >supplied by the CIA. The heroin used by America's >drug-addicts comes from Afghanistan. The Bush >administration recently gave Afghanistan a $43 million >subsidy for a "war on drugs"...) Now they've even >begun to borrow each other's rhetoric. Each refers to >the other as 'the head of the snake'. Both invoke God >and use the loose millenarian currency of Good and >Evil as their terms of reference. Both are engaged in >unequivocal political crimes. Both are dangerously >armed=97one with the nuclear arsenal of the obscenely >powerful, the other with the incandescent, destructive >power of the utterly hopeless. The fireball and the >ice pick. The bludgeon and the axe. The important >thing to keep in mind is that neither is an acceptable >alternative to the other. > >President Bush's ultimatum to the people of the >world=97"If you're not with us, you're against us"=97is a >piece of presumptuous arrogance. > >It's not a choice that people want to, need to, or >should have to make. > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. >http://phone.yahoo.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- Christopher W. Alexander cwa@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 14:12:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Israel In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII btw, the talk of Israeli as a "democracy" always is bothersome to me, since they still use laws on the books from the Ottoman Empire to claim settlements in Palestine. and when I say still, I mean to this day. I am sure there is legal mumbo jumbo that authorizes this, but this is either inexcusable, or it suggests that "Empire" is a better way of understanding the way the world works--literally. democracy is always "democracy for whom?". that said, apparently people in the West Bank and Gaza, when asked to compare, prefer Israeli democracy to the US. a comment on its proximity, certainly, but perhaps also on the relatively high profile that dissent has in that country...as opposed to ours, where for all our sound and fury about free speech, the reign of public shame muffles the right and the left. (though mostly the left, Drn!) Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 17:24:20 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: about Marjorie Perloff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/3/01 3:52:31 PM, miguelvallejounam@HOTMAIL.COM writes: >Hello, I am a new member of the Poetics listserv Welcome to the List miguel. But since your name is kind of foreign and your domain(?) is "Hotmail," perhaps I should be sure you are not a heteronym. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:30:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: let's see... In-Reply-To: <00fb01c14b04$1ed65580$49d9f7a5@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" mr. brink: i tried in an earlier post, perhaps unsuccessfully, to alert the list community to the presence of those who, operating under pseudonym (not a problem in itself), would seek to subvert any attempt here at building community (the c-word, yes, but hold on, i'm not through yet)... now i take it as a given that employing rhetoric in the service of our gropings & graspings (i.e., our correspondence hereabouts) will no doubt over- or underplay facets of our personalities, yet that this is a qualitatively different posture than the adoption of a persona, the explicit aim of which is to serve as a provocateur-agent-avatar, whose specific aim (if any) is to deliver a form of poetic terrorism (a la hakim bey? i'll leave off the scare quotes, in any case) that is bound to upset (affectively *&* procedurally) any & all attempts at maintaining congenial online relations, so defined... of course the implied community i have in mind, however altered as a result of x members from one country, y from another (& given the digital realities we're all busy plying), will nonetheless be predicated on good faith, on a striving toward---not consensus---but civil relations... i don't have anything more specific in mind, no---but i *do* believe that there are those who would unsettle civility itself... the threat of which poetic terrorism (please do read this vis-a-vis the wider public domain at present, & with due regard for those who would imagine that a better world requires such egg-scrambling) our fearless moderator is undoubtedly doing his best to mitigate, by controlling the reaction to said initial "bomb" prompt from one "selim abdul sadiq" (who may very well be one & the same... body... as the no-longer-present "ammonides"---and recall my little public beef with "ammonides" a few weeks back)... no, murat, i don't think you're wrong here---in fact i completely agree with you... but i also understand only too well the burden our moderator is no doubt operating under, having been in exactly that position myself for some years... & i understand, too, the potentially incendiary provocation of my apparent alignment of (what i'm calling) poetic terrorism with terrorism per se (there is surely a substantive difference, as i argued on the technoculture list (with some from this list, some of you will recall) a decade ago... nonetheless i argued against poetic terrorism then, as i'd argue against it now)... in any case i don't wish to be incendiary---i am simply pulling out the alignment for all to see, as i would surmise it's hovering around in our heads, if not our pinkies... lest someone think i am acting as an apologist for chris alexander, let me say outright that i consider chris a friend & (hell) an ally of some years, & that i KNOW he has his hands full right now & is trying his damnedest to "do the right thing"... so yeah, if that makes me an apologist, so be it... of course, anything chris does to mitigate an incipient spiraling-out-of-control, so perceived (which this list *has* experienced in the past, during its first meltdown), may in this cultural climate begin to feel not unlike the security measures ashcroft is trying to fast-track through congress... listen: can we, as writers, exert a little imaginative effort here, together, & posit what might be going on backchannel (and not simply frontchannel)?... can we imagine, together, what it's like when you've got people subbing to this list under pseudonyms (again, that's ok, but---) who would likewise use the particular liberty of list subscription (if that's what it is) to upset the stated aims of the list? (yes, perhaps these are people who were subbed to the list before, & long since "banished," for some possibly sane reasons---but please do consult the list archives, & draw your own conclusions... i certainly have drawn mine)... mr. brink: i don't know you, & you don't me, but i bet if you knew what i'm imagining, or if you imagined what i know, you'd retract that post... can i ask you, even though you don't know me, to take this post on good faith?... i imagine, too, that no matter what, we might not agree... & i assure you---i am who i say i am, whoever that is... please see http://stripe.colorado.edu/~amatoj for confirmation (w/photo)... my identity may ever be in flux, but i have no desire to deceive anyone around here (even when i sign only a portion of my name, or when, as i used to, i sign "tomato")... in any case, in the meantime, i implore the rest of this list to cut our moderator some slack here---really, he's caught between a rock & a hard spot no matter *what* he does... as in, *really*... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:35:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: you'd better sit down for this In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20011003142005.00a64140@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The pulley system attaches beneath the arms, Aldon. Mark At 02:22 PM 10/3/2001 -0400, you wrote: >OK -- since I'd never previously been misled by either Marjorie or Joe >Perloff, I did in fact attempt to put on my underwear sitting down this >morning. But I seemed to hit an impasse just above mid-thigh, and couldn't >get the danged things on while seated -- so -- I'm sitting here at the >keyboard, sort of fair to middling, stranded ---- think I'm going to have >to abandon the attempt and go back to being a stand-up kind of guy. > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > " chaos > is not our condition." > --Charles Olson > > >Aldon Lynn Nielsen >George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature >Department of English >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 21:23:55 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Pictures from a destroyed Afghanistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII dear list, Pictures from a destroyed Afghanistan http://www.ecn.org/agp/index1.html greetings and solidarity Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:48:04 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: Arundhati Roy on the coming war - "The Algebra of Infinite J ustice" (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear List, I join with others who are deeply grateful for the service this List (and their like to which I subscribe) has given its members in facilitating a distribution and exchange of experiences and information and understanding and so helping us all come to grips with September 11 and its on-going consequences. While I have watched CNN, and the news media which here in New Zealand have of course provided what is called 'coverage', it was the internet on which I immediately came to rely. It connected me--as the phone didn't--to my New York friends--and through the Lists, set in motion a flow of immediate individual responses and subsequently of analysis and background information, through rich and thoughtful postings and sets of links. I have daily downloaded essays and posts to take home to read which have enabled me to contextualize and assess what the news media here and abroad are delivering. I have gone on thinking about some of the angles produced here--such as the discussion of flags-- such as Barrett and Ron's posts, and I have taken an interest in the particular PROGRESS of discussion. It has been engrossing, and for the most part, vital. Now, I wonder how long this level of engagement will continue and what it will be like when it eases off, when it will tell me nothing new, or nothing that interests me, and begin to annoy and distress. I am prompted to wonder this after reading the forwarded article below. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Christopher W. Alexander [mailto:cwa@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2001 9:05 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fwd: Arundhati Roy on the coming war - "The Algebra of Infinite Justice" (fwd) ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sun, Sep 30, 2001 21:49 -0400 From: Yunte Huang To: cwa@acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: Fwd: Arundhati Roy on the coming war - "The Algebra of Infinite Justice" Dear Chris, How are you? How's life? Could you help me post the following excellent article to the Poetics List? My best, Yunte > >From the magazine "OUTLOOK" > >The Algebra Of Infinite Justice > >So here we have it. The equivocating distinction >between civilisation and savagery, between the >'massacre of innocent people' or, if you like, 'a >clash of civilisations' and 'collateral damage'. The >sophistry and fastidious algebra of Infinite >Justice... Free Speech > >ARUNDHATI ROY > >In the aftermath of the unconscionable September 11 >suicide attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade >Center, an American newscaster said: "Good and Evil >rarely manifest themselves as clearly as they did last >Tuesday. People who we don't know, massacred people >who we do. And they did so with contemptuous glee." >Then he broke down and wept. >Here's the rub: America is at war against people it >doesn't know (because they don't appear much on TV). >Before it has properly identified or even begun to >comprehend the nature of its enemy, the US government >has, in a rush of publicity and embarrassing rhetoric, >cobbled together an "International Coalition Against >Terror", mobilised its army, its airforce, its navy >and its media, and committed them to battle. > >The trouble is that once America goes off to war, it >can't very well return without having fought one. If >it doesn't find its enemy, for the sake of the enraged >folks back home, it will have to manufacture one. Once >war begins, it will develop a momentum, a logic and a >justification of its own, and we'll lose sight of why >it's being fought in the first place. > >What we're witnessing here is the spectacle of the >world's most powerful country, reaching reflexively, >angrily, for an old instinct to fight a new kind of >war. Suddenly, when it comes to defending itself, >America's streamlined warships, its Cruise missiles >and F-16 jets look like obsolete, lumbering things. As >deterrence, its arsenal of nuclear bombs is no longer >worth its weight in scrap. Box-cutters, penknives, and >cold anger are the weapons with which the wars of the >new century will be waged. Anger is the lock pick. It >slips through customs unnoticed. Doesn't show up in >baggage checks. > >Who is America fighting? On September 20, the FBI said >that it had doubts about the identities of some of the >hijackers. On the same day, President George W. Bush >said: "We know exactly who these people are and which >governments are supporting them." It sounds as though >the President knows something that the FBI and the >American public don't. > >In his September 20 address to the US Congress, >President Bush called the enemies of America "Enemies >of Freedom". > >"Americans are asking why do they hate us?" he said. >"They hate our freedoms-our freedom of religion, our >freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble >and disagree with each other." People are being asked >to make two leaps of faith here. First, to assume that >The Enemy is who the US government says it is, even >though it has no substantial evidence to support that >claim. And second, to assume that The Enemy's motives >are what the US government says they are, and there's >nothing to support that either. > >For strategic, military and economic reasons, it is >vital for the US government to persuade the American >public that America's commitment to freedom and >democracy and the American Way of Life is under >attack. In the current atmosphere of grief, outrage >and anger, it's an easy notion to peddle. However, if >that were true, it's reasonable to wonder why the >symbols of America's economic and military >dominance-the World Trade Center and the Pentagon-were >chosen as the targets of the attacks. Why not the >Statue of Liberty? Could it be that the stygian anger >that led to the attacks has its taproot not in >American freedom and democracy, but in the US >government's record of commitment and support to >exactly the opposite things-to military and economic >terrorism, insurgency, military dictatorship, >religious bigotry and unimaginable genocide (outside >America)? > >It must be hard for ordinary Americans so recently >bereaved to look up at the world with their eyes full >of tears and encounter what might appear to them to be >indifference. It isn't indifference. It's just augury. >An absence of surprise. The tired wisdom of knowing >that what goes around, eventually comes around. >American people ought to know that it is not them, but >their government's policies that are so hated. They >can't possibly doubt that they themselves, their >extraordinary musicians, their writers, their actors, >their spectacular sportsmen and their cinema, are >universally welcomed. > >All of us have been moved by the courage and grace >shown by firefighters, rescue workers and ordinary >office-goers in the days and weeks that followed the >attacks. > >America's grief at what happened has been immense and >immensely public. It would be grotesque to expect it >to calibrate or modulate its anguish. However, it will >be a pity if, instead of using this as an opportunity >to try and understand why September 11 happened, >Americans use it as an opportunity to usurp the whole >world's sorrow to mourn and avenge only their own. >Because then it falls to the rest of us to ask the >hard questions and say the harsh things. And for our >pains, for our bad timing, we will be disliked, >ignored and perhaps eventually silenced. > >The world will probably never know what motivated >those particular hijackers who flew planes into those >particular American buildings. They were not glory >boys. They left no suicide notes, no political >messages, no organisation has claimed credit for the >attacks. All we know is that their belief in what they >were doing outstripped the natural human instinct for >survival or any desire to be remembered. It's almost >as though they could not scale down the enormity of >their rage to anything smaller than their deeds. And >what they did has blown a hole in the world as we know >it. In the absence of information, politicians, >political commentators, writers (like myself) will >invest the act with their own politics, with their own >interpretations. This speculation, this analysis of >the political climate in which the attacks took place, >can only be a good thing. > >But war is looming large. Whatever remains to be said, >must be said quickly. >Before America places itself at the helm of the >"international coalition against terror", before it >invites (and coerces) countries to actively >participate in its almost godlike mission-Operation >Infinite Justice-it would help if some small >clarifications are made. For example, Infinite Justice >for whom? Is this America's War against Terror in >America or against Terror in general? What exactly is >being avenged here? Is it the tragic loss of almost >7,000 lives, the gutting of 5 million square feet of >office space in Manhattan, the destruction of a >section of the Pentagon, the loss of several hundreds >of thousands of jobs, the bankruptcy of some airline >companies and the dip in the New York Stock Exchange? >Or is it more than that? > >In 1996, Madeleine Albright, then US Secretary of >State, was asked on national television what she felt >about the fact that 5,00,000 Iraqi children had died >as a result of US economic sanctions. She replied that >it was "a very hard choice", but that all things >considered, "we think the price is worth it." >Madeleine Albright never lost her job for saying this. >She continued to travel the world representing the >views and aspirations of the US government. More >pertinently, the sanctions against Iraq remain in >place. Children continue to die. > >So here we have it. The equivocating distinction >between civilisation and savagery, between the >'massacre of innocent people' or, if you like, 'a >clash of civilisations' and 'collateral damage'. The >sophistry and fastidious algebra of Infinite Justice. >How many dead Iraqis will it take to make the world a >better place? How many dead Afghans for every dead >American? How many dead women and children for every >dead man? How many dead mujahideen for each dead >investment banker? > >As we watch mesmerised, Operation Infinite Justice >unfolds on TV monitors across the world. A coalition >of the world's superpowers is closing in on >Afghanistan, one of the poorest, most ravaged, >war-torn countries in the world, whose ruling Taliban >government is sheltering Osama bin Laden, the man >being held responsible for the September 11 attacks. > >The only thing in Afghanistan that could possibly >count as collateral value is its citizenry. (Among >them, half a million maimed orphans. There are >accounts of hobbling stampedes that occur when >artificial limbs are airdropped into remote, >inaccessible villages.) Afghanistan's economy is in a >shambles. In fact, the problem for an invading army is >that Afghanistan has no conventional coordinates or >signposts to plot on a military map-no big cities, no >highways, no industrial complexes, no water treatment >plants. Farms have been turned into mass graves. The >countryside is littered with landmines-10 million is >the most recent estimate. The American army would >first have to clear the mines and build roads in order >to take its soldiers in. > >Fearing an attack from America, one million citizens >have fled from their homes and arrived at the border >between Pakistan and Afghanistan. As supplies run >out-food and aid agencies have been asked to leave-the >BBC reports that one of the worst humanitarian >disasters of recent times has begun to unfold. Witness >the Infinite Justice of the new century. Civilians >starving to death, while they're waiting to be killed. > > >By contributing to the killing of Afghan civilians, >the US government will only end up helping the Taliban >cause. > >In America there has been rough talk of "bombing >Afghanistan back to the stone age". Someone please >break the news that Afghanistan is already there. And >if it's any consolation, America played no small part >in helping it on its way. The American people may be a >little fuzzy about where exactly Afghanistan is (we >hear reports that there's a run on maps of >Afghanistan), but the US government and Afghanistan >are old friends. In 1979, after the Soviet invasion of >Afghanistan, the CIA and Pakistan's ISI >(Inter-Services Intelligence) launched the largest >covert operation in the history of the CIA. Their >purpose was to harness the energy of Afghan resistance >to the Soviets and expand it into a holy war, an >Islamic jehad, which would turn Muslim countries >within the Soviet Union against the Communist regime >and eventually destabilise it. When it began, it was >meant to be the Soviet Union's Vietnam. It turned out >to be much more than that. Over the years, the CIA >funded and recruited almost 1,00,000 radical >mujahideen from 40 Islamic countries as soldiers for >America's proxy war. The rank and file of the >mujahideen were unaware that their jehad was actually >being fought on behalf of Uncle Sam.(The irony is that >America was equally unaware that it was financing a >future war against itself). > >By 1989, after being bloodied by 10 years of >relentless conflict, the Russians withdrew, leaving >behind a civilisation reduced to rubble. Civil war in >Afghanistan raged on. The jehad spread to Chechnya, >Kosovo and eventually to Kashmir. The CIA continued to >pour in money and military equipment, but the >overheads had become immense, and more money was >needed. The mujahideen ordered farmers to plant opium >as 'revolutionary tax'. The ISI set up hundreds of >heroin laboratories across Afghanistan. Within two >years of the CIA's arrival, the Pakistan-Afghanistan >borderland had become the biggest producer of heroin >in the world, and the single biggest source on >American streets. > >The annual profits, said to be between 100 and 200 >billion dollars, were ploughed back into training and >arming militants. > >In 1995, the Taliban-then a marginal sect of >dangerous, hardline fundamentalists-fought its way to >power in Afghanistan. It was funded by the ISI, that >old cohort of the CIA, and supported by many political >parties in Pakistan. The Taliban unleashed a regime of >terror. Its first victims were its own people, >particularly women. It closed down girls' schools, >dismissed women from government jobs, enforced Sharia >laws in which women deemed to be 'immoral' are stoned >to death, and widows guilty of being adulterous are >buried alive. Given the Taliban government's human >rights track record, it seems unlikely that it will in >any way be intimidated or swerved from its purpose by >the prospect of war, or the threat to the lives of its >civilians. > >After all that has happened, can there be anything >more ironic than Russia and America joining hands to >re-destroy Afghanistan? The question is, can you >destroy destruction? Dropping more bombs on >Afghanistan will only shuffle the rubble, scramble >some old graves and disturb the dead. > >The desolate landscape of Afghanistan was the burial >ground of Soviet Communism and the springboard of a >unipolar world dominated by America. It made the space >for neo-capitalism and corporate globalisation, again >dominated by America. And now Afghanistan is poised to >be the graveyard for the unlikely soldiers who fought >and won this war for America. >And what of America's trusted ally? Pakistan too has >suffered enormously. The US government has not been >shy of supporting military dictators who have blocked >the idea of democracy from taking root in the country. >Before the CIA arrived, there was a small rural market >for opium in Pakistan. Between 1979 and 1985, the >number of heroin addicts grew from zero to one and a >half million. There are three million Afghan refugees >living in tented camps along the border. Pakistan's >economy is crumbling. Sectarian violence, >globalisation's Structural Adjustment programmes and >drug lords are tearing the country to pieces. Set up >to fight the Soviets, the terrorist training centres >and madrassas, sown like dragon's teeth across the >country, produced fundamentalists with tremendous >popular appeal within Pakistan itself. The Taliban, >who the Pakistan government has supported, funded and >propped up for years, has material and strategic >alliances with Pakistan's own political parties. Now >the US government is asking (asking?) Pakistan to >garrot the pet it has hand-reared in its backyard for >so many years. President Musharraf, having pledged his >support to the US, could well find he has something >resembling civil war on his hands. > >India, thanks in part to its geography, and in part to >the vision of its former leaders, has so far been >fortunate enough to be left out of this Great Game. >Had it been drawn in, it's more than likely that our >democracy, such as it is, would not have survived. >Today, as some of us watch in horror, the Indian >government is furiously gyrating its hips, begging the >US to set up its base in India rather than Pakistan. >Having had this ringside view of Pakistan's sordid >fate, it isn't just odd, it's unthinkable that India >should want to do this. Any Third World country with a >fragile economy and a complex social base should know >by now that to invite a superpower like America in >(whether it says it's staying or just passing through) >would be like inviting a brick to drop through your >windscreen. > >In the media blitz that followed the September 11 >events, no mainstream TV station thought it fit to >tell the story of America's involvement with >Afghanistan. So, to those unfamiliar with the story, >the coverage of the attacks could have been moving, >disturbing and perhaps to cynics, self-indulgent. >However, to those of us who are familiar with >Afghanistan's recent history, American television >coverage and the rhetoric of the "International >Coalition Against Terror" is just plain insulting. >America's 'free press' like its 'free market' has a >lot to account for. > >Operation Infinite Justice is ostensibly being fought >to uphold the American Way of Life. It'll probably end >up undermining it completely. It will spawn more anger >and more terror across the world. For ordinary people >in America, it will mean lives lived in a climate of >sickening uncertainty: will my child be safe in >school? Will there be nerve gas in the subway? A bomb >in the cinema hall? Will my love come home tonight? >Already CNN is warning people against the possibility >of biological warfare-small pox, bubonic plague, >anthrax-being waged by innocuous crop duster aircraft. >Being picked off a few at a time may end up being >worse than being annihilated all at once by a nuclear >bomb. > >The US government, and no doubt governments all over >the world, will use the climate of war as an excuse to >curtail civil liberties, deny free speech, lay off >workers, harass ethnic and religious minorities, cut >back on public spending and divert huge amounts of >money to the defence industry. > >To what purpose? President George Bush can no more >"rid the world of evil-doers" than he can stock it >with saints. It's absurd for the US government to even >toy with the notion that it can stamp out terrorism >with more violence and oppression. Terrorism is the >symptom, not the disease. Terrorism has no country. >It's transnational, as global an enterprise as Coke or >Pepsi or Nike. At the first sign of trouble, >terrorists can pull up stakes and move their >'factories' from country to country in search of a >better deal. Just like the multinationals. > >Terrorism as a phenomenon may never go away. But if it >is to be contained, the first step is for America to >at least acknowledge that it shares the planet with >other nations, with other human beings, who, even if >they are not on TV, have loves and griefs and stories >and songs and sorrows and, for heaven's sake, rights. >Instead, when Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence >Secretary, was asked what he would call a victory in >America's New War, he said that if he could convince >the world that Americans must be allowed to continue >with their way of life, he would consider it a >victory. > >The September 11 attacks were a monstrous calling card >from a world gone horribly wrong. The message may have >been written by Osama bin Laden (who knows?) and >delivered by his couriers, but it could well have been >signed by the ghosts of the victims of America's old >wars. > >The millions killed in Korea, Vietnam and Cambodia, >the 17,500 killed when Israel-backed by the US-invaded >Lebanon in 1982, the 2,00,000 Iraqis killed in >Operation Desert Storm, the thousands of Palestinians >who have died fighting Israel's occupation of the West >Bank. And the millions who died, in Yugoslavia, >Somalia, Haiti, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador, the >Dominican republic, Panama, at the hands of all the >terrorists, dictators and genocidists who the American >government supported, trained, bankrolled and supplied >with arms. > >And this is far from being a comprehensive list. For a >country involved in so much warfare and conflict, the >American people have been extremely fortunate. The >strikes on September 11 were only the second on >American soil in over a century. The first was Pearl >Harbour. The reprisal for this took a long route, >but ended with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This time the >world waits with bated breath for the horrors to come. > >Someone recently said that if Osama bin Laden didn't >exist, America would have had to invent him. But, in a >way, America did invent him. He was among the jehadis >who moved to Afghanistan in 1979 when the CIA >commenced operations. Osama bin Laden has the >distinction of being created by the CIA and wanted by >the FBI. In the course of a fortnight, he has been >promoted from Suspect, to Prime Suspect, and then, >despite the lack of any real evidence, straight up the >charts to being "wanted dead or alive". > > >From all accounts, it will be impossible to produce >evidence (of the sort that would stand scrutiny in a >court of law) to link Osama bin Laden to the September >11 attacks. So far, it appears that the most >incriminating piece of evidence against him is the >fact that he has not condemned them. > > >From what is known about the location and the living >conditions from which Osama bin Laden operates, it's >entirely possible that he did not personally plan and >carry out the attacks-that he is the inspirational >figure, 'the CEO of the Holding Company'. > >The Taliban's response to US demands for the >extradition of Osama bin Laden has been >uncharacteristically reasonable: Produce the evidence, >we'll hand him over. President Bush's response is that >the demand is "non-negotiable". > >(While talks are on for the extradition of CEOs-can >India put in a side-request for the extradition of >Warren Anderson of the USA? He was Chairman of Union >Carbide, responsible for the Bhopal gas leak that >killed 16,000 people in 1984. We have collated the >necessary evidence. It's all in the files. Could we >have him, please?) > >But who is Osama bin Laden really? > >Let me rephrase that. What is Osama bin Laden? > >He's America's family secret. He is the American >President's dark doppelganger. The savage twin of all >that purports to be beautiful and civilised. He has >been sculpted from the spare rib of a world laid to >waste by America's foreign policy: its gunboat >diplomacy, its nuclear arsenal, its vulgarly stated >policy of "full spectrum dominance", its chilling >disregard for non-American lives, its barbarous >military interventions, its support for despotic and >dictatorial regimes, its merciless economic agenda >that has munched through the economies of poor >countries like a cloud of locusts. Its marauding >multinationals who are taking over the air we breathe, >the ground we stand on, the water we drink, the >thoughts we think. > >Now that the family secret has been spilled, the twins >are blurring into one another and gradually becoming >interchangeable. Their guns, bombs, money and drugs >have been going around in the loop for a while. (The >Stinger missiles that will greet US helicopters were >supplied by the CIA. The heroin used by America's >drug-addicts comes from Afghanistan. The Bush >administration recently gave Afghanistan a $43 million >subsidy for a "war on drugs"...) Now they've even >begun to borrow each other's rhetoric. Each refers to >the other as 'the head of the snake'. Both invoke God >and use the loose millenarian currency of Good and >Evil as their terms of reference. Both are engaged in >unequivocal political crimes. Both are dangerously >armed-one with the nuclear arsenal of the obscenely >powerful, the other with the incandescent, destructive >power of the utterly hopeless. The fireball and the >ice pick. The bludgeon and the axe. The important >thing to keep in mind is that neither is an acceptable >alternative to the other. > >President Bush's ultimatum to the people of the >world-"If you're not with us, you're against us"-is a >piece of presumptuous arrogance. > >It's not a choice that people want to, need to, or >should have to make. > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. >http://phone.yahoo.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- Christopher W. Alexander cwa@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:30:33 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Murat, A couple of footnotes. (1) The Leader of the Opposition, a Ms Jenny Shipley, returned a few days ago from New York, where she had met people she described as POWERFUL, and reported that they had said they thought New Zealand had been very slow in offering its support for the US and said so IN FRONT OF OUR AMBASSADOR. Certainly slower than Australia (Oh, God no, not slower than Australia!). This was an attack on the Prime Minister. The rebuttal was quick, and US officials we quoted, proving how QUICK we had been to offer our support and how much our SWIFTNESS in this regard had been appreciated. (2) Yesterday there was a news story about how the Americas Cup was a likely terrorist target. Thing is Murat, population density is not the only message, as I am sure you know. And in the sporting world, New Zealand regards itself as as SUPER POWER why wouldn't it, it holds the AMERICAS CUP, and them Americans want it back, and they are coming here in a few months with their big SYNDICATES to take it back. Need I say more? Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Murat Nemet-Nejat [mailto:MuratNN@AOL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2001 4:02 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Richard, It is easier for you, it appears to me, to have this admiration for the September elevening of New York city from New Zealand (I assume that's where you live); essentially, because you don't really believe that New Zealand would be the target of a future biological attack -not because of a political reason, but simply because New Zealand does not have enough concentration of population to make it a "cost effectivge" target. I wonder if you would post the same "revolutionary," "prophetic" ("the beginning of the end of capitalism," so on and so forth) posts if you were living in New York City. I am curious what kind of correlation there exists, among the people on the list, between their political attitudes towards the catastrophe and the population density of the place where they live. Can we run an informal poll on that? September 11 is, among other things, an attack on the idea of people living together as a community, in a large polis, an attack on the idea of modern (at least Western) urban living. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 21:21:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Paterson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ah so Tony Soprano " ... it 1956 in here out there it's 1999..' as he chides his daughter and son ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:56:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lytle Shaw Subject: Goldsmith, Knowles, Raworth at The Drawing Center Oct 9th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tuesday, October 9th In conjunction with the exhibition “12 Views” Line Reading at The Drawing Center presents: Kenneth Goldsmith Alison Knowles Tom Raworth Kenneth Goldsmith is author of 73 Poems, a collaboration with vocalist Joan La Barbara (Permanent Press, 1994), No. 111 2.7.93-10.20.96 (The Figures, 1997), and Fidget (Coach House, 2000). His visual works have been exhibited widely in galleries and museums. Goldsmith is a DJ at 91.1 WFMU in New York City, the editor of Ubu Web Visual, Concrete and Sound Poetry (www.ubu.com), and a music critic at New York Press. Alison Knowles’ books of poetry include Natural Assemblages and the True Crow (Printed Editions, 1980), A Bean Concordance (Printed Editions, 1983) Spoken Text (Left Hand Books, 1993), and Footnotes (Granary, 2000). An early member of Fluxus, Knowles has performed and exhibited her art internationally since the 1960s. Knowles lives in New York City. Tom Raworth is author of over 40 books and pamphlets of poetry, including A Serial Biography (Fulcrum, 1969), Moving (Cape Goliard, 1971), Act (Trigram, 1973), Ace (The Figures, 1974), and Meadow (Post-Apollo, 1999). Raworth’s graphic work has been exhibited in France, Italy and the United States. He has collaborated with musicians including Steve Lacy and Esther Roth, and painters Giovanni D’Agostino and Micaëla Henich. Raworth lives in Cambridge, England. The Drawing Center (35 Wooster, between Grand and Broome) Curated by Lytle Shaw All Line Readings are on Tuesdays at 7pm; admission is $5 and free to The Drawing Center members. The Line Reading series is made possible, in part, with public funds from the New York State Council on the Arts, a state agency. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 21:42:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: elegy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = elegy the debris field swirls around ground zero the debris field swirls around ground zero the debris field says the debris field says i am your names and your airplanes i am your children of rock and metal i was born the world returns to me the world returns to me i am all airplanes and all children all airplanes and all children come to me i am all names and all metals of rock and metal and of flesh and bone of rock and metal and of flesh and bone the world returns to me the world returns to me the debris field swirls around ground zero singing its lonely song singing its lonely song === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 21:52:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Stickney Subject: What is to be done MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/webfeatures/2001/10/mooney-c-10-02= .html From The American Prospective Preemptive Peace Chris Mooney The Idea Log is a new column by Chris Mooney. It will appear on TAP = Online every Tuesday.=20 After attending last Saturday's 7,500 person peace march in downtown = Washington, D.C., sponsored by "International A.N.S.W.E.R." (Act Now to = Stop War & End Racism), I was left with a rather odd conclusion: The = protesters hadn't watched enough CNN. I mean, I'm sure they were glued = to the news on September 11th like all the rest of us, watching the = trade towers collapse again and again, and hearing some U.S. foreign = policy luminaries, like Lawrence Eagleburger, call for sweeping = retribution. But after September 12th or 13th, the demonstrators, many = of them students, appear to have switched off. One of the countless = protest signs I saw -- and one of the few sarcastic ones -- read "Rush = In, Think Later." This is precisely what the Bush administration has not = done, though it's hard to say the same of certain peaceniks.=20 Such is the paradox of a preemptive peace march, a protest that = critiques the logic of revenge before retributive action has even been = attempted. Sure, there are situations where one should protest something = before it happens -- but the thing being protested should at least be a = likely outcome. That's not true in this case. Whatever military response = the Bush administration and its allies may be planning, we are certainly = not talking about any Vietnam-style napalming of innocents. Indeed, the = United States is already providing aid to Afghan refugees. Yet because = today's peace movement has taken to the streets so prematurely, it is = forced to rely on dubious presumptions about the American psyche and how = it will respond, murderously, to future events.=20 Granted, from a peacenik perspective, it's indisputable that shortly = after the World Trade Center attacks, quite a lot of Americans were = sounding alarmingly bloodthirsty. One of the most disturbing, but least = criticized, screeds came from Time magazine's Lance Morrow, who wrote, = in a column titled "The Case for Rage and Retribution," that we ought to = "explore the rich reciprocal possibilities of the fatwa."=20 But no one, not Morrow or any other commentator who embarrassed himself = with unchecked rage, was operating with a full deck that awful week. = After all, much of America wasn't even sleeping at night. Since then, = however, it has clearly dawned on the Bush administration that the goal = of defeating international terrorism cannot possibly be furthered by = bombing the hell out of starving Afghans. This realization could be = observed in the careful tones of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld = Sunday morning on Meet the Press:=20 MR. RUSSERT: The president said that Osama bin Laden is wanted dead or = alive. Do we have a preference?=20 SEC'Y RUMSFELD: Well, you know, I don't think about this so much as = retaliation or retribution or even justice. I think about it as -- I = think back to real wars, the goal is victory. The goal is to be able to = have dealt with the problems that exist--in this case, the terrorist = networks and the countries that harbor them--in a way that we have won; = that in fact they are no longer free to go out and terrorize the world. It's worth contrasting Rumsfeld's caution with the International Answer = protesters' repeated, hyperbolic denunciations of this nation's new = "racist war." Put aside the fact that there is no military action yet to = protest, and little reason to suppose that knee-jerk cries for revenge = will drive U.S. policy. The notion that U.S. military action, when it = comes, will be somehow "racist" is absurd. The protesters seem to have = conflated isolated instances of hate crimes against Arab and Muslim = Americans with the Bush administration's "war on terrorism" -- this = despite the fact that Bush has repeatedly denounced such violence and = emphasized that we should not think of our current conflict as one = between Islam and "the West."=20 But then, we shouldn't expect much charity toward the president from = protesters capable of airing slogans like "The Real Terrorist Works in = the White House." I consider George W. Bush a dim bulb, even an impostor = -- and certainly oppose many aspects of his foreign policy -- but = calling him a terrorist is a truly vile form of moral equivalency. Yet = it frequently fit the tone of the protests, where I watched some = organizers label those who disagreed with them undercover government = agents, and one 21-year-old told me, in his pacifism, that we shouldn't = have fought Hitler.=20 Devout word watchers may have noted that journalists and others have = taken to using "enormity" to describe the events of September 11th, as = though it were the only word in the language capable of conveying the = true, unique horror of that day. By contrast, to the peace protesters, = everything is now a form of "terrorism," from U.S. sanctions on Iraq to = the layoffs of workers ("economic terrorism"). Almost the only thing the = protesters didn't widely denounce, amid a plethora of IMF/World Bank = grievances, was radical Muslim fundamentalism. Indeed, it seemed as = though the only time Osama bin Laden came up at all was when protesters = were observing that the CIA helped train him. So it's no surprise that = politically, at least, they shared some of his explicit objectives: = "It's U.S. Troop Proximity to Mecca & Medina, Stupid!" "U.S. Out of the = Middle East!"=20 But I still keep coming back to that sign, "Rush In, Think Later." I = think about its holder, and try to imagine what was running through his = or her mind. (I should have just asked, but it didn't occur to me at the = moment.) Protests themselves may take weeks to organize, but protest = signs take just minutes to draw up. There must have been something = instinctive and deep-seated behind that slogan, for its creator to be = able to twist reality so starkly, rushing in to protest U.S. haste long = after our government showed caution. Dare one suggest -- without = cramming stars and stripes down anyone's throat -- that it is the = blindly held creed of anti-Americanism?=20 Chris Mooney=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:56:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: an adjustment to AR's algebra Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Arundhati Roy wrote: >Could it be that the stygian anger >that led to the attacks has its taproot not in >American freedom and democracy, but in the US >government's record of commitment and support to >exactly the opposite >things—to military and economic >terrorism, insurgency, military dictatorship, >religious bigotry and unimaginable genocide (outside >America)? Just a reminder, the US government, the US economy, the US's sense of religious superiority, and perhaps above all the US military were borne of UNIMAGINABLE GENOCIDE WITHIN OUR "BORDERS". OK, let's try not to forget that too, too often! For the record, I'd add that much of the US's ideals and particular forms of freedoms, democracy, feminism stems from Native American philosophies and customs. How both these things are true is one of the conundra. Elizabeth Treadwell "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:38:45 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat. Quite briefly: of course my reaction would be different. Just as someone living in eg Palestine would be ..but High density of population is not the issue or where you live: its tryig to deal with the reality of what's happenning. Reality becomes or maybe is already irreality: I can "understand" Stcckhausen's reaction "tasteless" as that seems. Of course is"easier" for me being herewhere we've never had a war this century: but dont censor or moderate peoples' reactions..they are all valid even if some are what we (you, others) consider to be whacko. I think that this situation will turn out to be less terrible thasn everyone thinks and it may well be "an advanced warning" but who knowsa, maybe American capitalism will continue on its merry exploitative and warlile way for ever: after al I'm ok. Let's all get on with our lives and take the pressure off the poorer peoples: I'm not going to support your mate Bush or the idiot in charge of Britain...I rather admire these guys to blow up a couple of big towers. I wish they'd fire 20 into New Zealand especially the parliament in Wellington and I dont like the Auckland centre very much. But lets keep calm and maybe learn something from it all. Regards, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 4:01 PM Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes > Richard, > > It is easier for you, it appears to me, to have this admiration for the > September elevening of New York city from New Zealand (I assume that's where > you live); essentially, because you don't really believe that New Zealand > would be the target of a future biological attack -not because of a political > reason, but simply because New Zealand does not have enough concentration of > population to make it a "cost effectivge" target. > > I wonder if you would post the same "revolutionary," "prophetic" ("the > beginning of the end of capitalism," so on and so forth) posts if you were > living in New York City. > > I am curious what kind of correlation there exists, among the people on the > list, between their political attitudes towards the catastrophe and the > population density of the place where they live. Can we run an informal poll > on that? > > September 11 is, among other things, an attack on the idea of people living > together as a community, in a large polis, an attack on the idea of modern > (at least Western) urban living. > > Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:22:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20011003142628.00a63fd0@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >David!!!! > >So glad to see your signature here among us again -- I'm out here in the >wilds of Pennsylvania, trying to get to the heart of the matter -- send >poetry, quick! > > >At 03:38 PM 10/2/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>Isnt "massacre" the word for it? D > > Bromige should not be wasting his time writing e-mail; he is the poet laureate of Sonoma County, and they are fast approaching grape harvest. He has a lot of poems to write about the vintage. Dont pester him to communicate lesser stuff. -- George Bowering Freelance reader Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 01:22:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--October 2001 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street New York City FREE Open Mike on First Saturdays of the Month ONLY! October 6 Meghan Cleary, Hilary Sideris, Ellen Steinbaum October 13 Cammy Thomas, Pamela Uschuk, Lauren Yaffe October 20 Francine Sterle, JC Todd October 27 Bruce Andrews, Jeanne Lambert, Harriet Zinnes The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder and Jason Schneiderman, Directors Martha Rhodes, Executive Director For additional information, contact Michael Broder or Jason Schneiderman at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 04:08:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r....the phony war... J. tells me to take the week-end off....the 1,000 year war will still be there on Monday.. Wozzek was 2/3 empty...that's in the big building with the ugly Chagll murals....acrid smoke over downton... tearing down the skeletal remains of building 3&5 at W.T.C...Chanel and the new Ferragomo store are empty....you could go manniquan bowling.... I lost 15 pounds now i'm gaining it back...yo you...up & down... This is not a war against Islam....This is not a war against Islam...This is not a war again Islam....so THEY say every which day way... At the borders...in northern Africa...Sudan...Nigeria....in Asia at Kashmir...on the Northern borders in Chechniya...in Jerusalem...in Kurdistan...this is not a war against our brothers in Islam..this is not... Steve sz he is back to 'abnormal' At the borders of the talk a talk academic life...this is not a war against Islam...in the voice of endless Legalisms...i hear the bones of the dead rattle...the smell of smoke all day on the streets of SoHo This is not a war against Islam...This is the phony War....All is abnormal...me i don;t have far to go...DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 04:16:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...toot toot tooting yr own horn... Maria Bustillos wrote: > Greetings, colleagues. I am archiving Dr. Nudel's mutterings and ravings on Popula, and I have posted the first 100 in the new format, at http://pix.popula.com/items/0224/vintage2/drn.html They are staggeringly good. I have occasionally included relevant snippets from the discussion in order to clarify Dr. Nudel's remarks, but as few as possible. It's 99.9% pure Nudel. In any case, the archive is now complete through January of 2000, and the balance will be up by the end of the weekend! Hooray! I am so proud to have had the opportunity to read and learn from these unique documents, let alone publish them. Thank you Dr. N. with all my heart (and mind.) We are also preparing a collage of Dr. Nudel's writings (together with other materials) related to the terrorist attack on New York (working title 9-1-1). Popula and I were laid up with the Nimda virus and are only just now sitting up and taking a little nourishment, hence the delay. We should welcome any comments and on this undertaking, on- or off-list. Best to all Maria Bustillos Popula http://www.popula.com _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 04:46:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r..the Brides of Yasir Arafat.... Usually realiable Arabic sources have informed me that given the imminence of war, they are recruting 4th and 5th wives for prominent Arabic figures. Please put your body where your heart and mind are. They are especially interested in recruiting feminists for the cross-cultural adventure of a life-time. The brigade is to be called the Brides of Yasir Arafat...DRn.... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:47:28 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat. I think you rather simplistically (I dont mean that you are simplistic or simple: I may be the naive one...) assume these correlations. It's not certain who actually carried out this attack or why but the resultant is that it shows that the Super Powers are very vulnerable: we all are every where.(Which has its positive side eg it means that they are less capabe of repression etc) They (the "terrorists" or "revolutionaries" or whatever you term them) may not be(probably are not) Marxists or revolutionaries, but they dont come out of a vacuum. Regardless of that, if I felt that the destruction of capitalism would be facilitated by this kind of atack, and if I felt that the end result would be a "higher society", a more egalitarian and progressive society and I was very dedicated to that: I can imagine organising this attack. Note that I say IF. To do so you cant think things like: "Oh how terrible, it might have been Auckland, or Oslo, or Amsterdam or some small hamlet somehwere: or my son or daughter might have been there". If you're in it for the long term you have to be prepared to die yourself and be convinced that the deaths of 7000 or 700,000 people is not important relative to the ultimate outcome. Whether that is the case I dont know. In addition one might be organising protests to disrupt and criticise the the system on the ground. Its always the case that the "revolutionary" doesnt want to be himself/herself attacked or hurt. That may sound like cowardice but revolutions are not tea parties. The point is the result. The other point is that things never happen as one expects. This attack came out of the blue, as they say, it is both advantageous to the extreme right and possibly in the long term does "augur" the "beginning" (if there can be a beginning) of the downfall of capitalism: not civilisation (there are civilisations all over the world and the West and East are very linked as well as different in their "level" and their awareness of soceital things historical consciousness etc are different, but there are many things in common...) and obviously the result certain extreme groups wanted....why exactly? I dont know. But the action to be taken now is I feel a wide ranging education and discussion on the world political situation (and cooperation of ALL countries in non military ways as long as this is voluntary) - but spare us from the pious crap from Bush and the Blair - when I raved on about the towers I was expressing a reality of a kind: one in my own mind. I can see eg where Stochausenn is or was coming from....but I also know that real people were killed and that is a tragedy. Terrible. But people can be fascinated by terrible things: are, in fact. They lie who say they never have any "evil" thoughts. The dangerous people (if they are that) are those who say nothing and seethe. The danger is to shut down debate and let people seethe. Just as its stupid to imagine Britain or the US can "cure the world" (even if they wanted to) its stupid to continue to not say what one thinks and to not delve into the truth (difficult as that is to discover or even define). If, to tack again, I did feel that the worst elements were getting the upper hand (I dont think so eg I think that at the most the Taleban (while I think they arent as bad as they have been portrayed) are in many ways a bit sad, not frightening. On that, one can pick out innumerable places where there are injustices and "peculiar " or supposedly "backward" practices.) ....I would be behind a military defence/offensive by the West....but I think we're far from that so far (not that they've consulted me) I dont support NZ giving support to the US-British military action. I am quite confident that at this stage a constructive "humanitarian" aproach by the US and a wihdrawal by it (and other Western or Eastern nations as appropriate) of their stupid "Policeman Stance" in the world is part of any "attack on terrorism"...but a War on Terrorism? Doesnt that involve terror? I'm not for "smugness" but ultimately I am for "progress" (hence I would not foster Moslemic concepts - any religious concepts of any organised religion - myself ...hence to the extent that this is or can be shown to be) by religious crazed men and women I'm opposed to those people. But you are not facing a particular country that is arming hugely against you...as long as capitalism persists terrorism will too..but that doesnt mean that the good and many great things of Western and Eastern civilisations are in danger: in a sense they are always. When I say capitalism is under attack etc...I think I'm trying to say something about the historical process: If the 1000 million or so Muslims were united behind some Hitlerian leader clearly determined to destroy civilisation then of course we are all behind the US etal ...but that situation doesnt portend. But I dont know...one thing about it all is that I have done more debating and thinking about world politics poverty civilisation etc that I have for a long time: look, my initial reaction was quite reactionary, I was very angry that the US and especially NY had been attacked: I wanted a bood thirsty retaliation...at first.......part of me still is. After all we are indebted to the US for itis defeat of Japan in the Sec WW: which took a terrible toll on young American men and people. America etc and Britain are at their best great countries: but at their worst are blood thirsty warmongers.... For many days (ok I'm in NZ but the television brings things so close so powerfully) I was dazed: split, confused, elated, angry, troubled: some of the rhetoric that came out was maybe to "cut myself away" from facing that terrible reality of the killing of all those people and the children who had lost parents...and I know (or do I know?) that the terrorists dont think that way: if they think they hate: but why, and how do such people arise: what is happening? What CAN be done? Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 4:01 PM Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes > Richard, > > It is easier for you, it appears to me, to have this admiration for the > September elevening of New York city from New Zealand (I assume that's where > you live); essentially, because you don't really believe that New Zealand > would be the target of a future biological attack -not because of a political > reason, but simply because New Zealand does not have enough concentration of > population to make it a "cost effectivge" target. > > I wonder if you would post the same "revolutionary," "prophetic" ("the > beginning of the end of capitalism," so on and so forth) posts if you were > living in New York City. > > I am curious what kind of correlation there exists, among the people on the > list, between their political attitudes towards the catastrophe and the > population density of the place where they live. Can we run an informal poll > on that? > > September 11 is, among other things, an attack on the idea of people living > together as a community, in a large polis, an attack on the idea of modern > (at least Western) urban living. > > Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:08:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: you'd better sit down for this In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20011003142005.00a64140@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >OK -- since I'd never previously been misled by either Marjorie or Joe >Perloff, I did in fact attempt to put on my underwear sitting down this >morning. But I seemed to hit an impasse just above mid-thigh, and couldn't >get the danged things on while seated -- so -- I'm sitting here at the >keyboard, sort of fair to middling, stranded ---- think I'm going to have >to abandon the attempt and go back to being a stand-up kind of guy. > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > " chaos > is not our condition." > --Charles Olson > >Aldon Lynn Nielsen >G Try wearing it on your head. It's almost time for yr birthday party anyway David ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 01:24:22 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Post-WTC Review of Empire by Hardt & Negri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron. So you feel there has been some positive and qualitative change? Is it now naive to imagine that the countries (and hopefully also all the peoples of those countries) may begin to unite and the "global" Capitalism sees the need for that? Which would argue that by some miracle we are getting "better"......its true some of what is said here: especially that (in a strange way) its a "compliment" to the US (hence the West but maybe some of the more "racy" and "exciting" aspects of the West - portayed somewhat thru the movies) that they become a target. Or is "Sod's Law" always to be there...that every advance brings its corresponding counter atack? Or is Marjorie Perloff atal right? "Civilisation" is threatened? I think this one is complex: its almost as if what processes could lead to enormous social material scientific philosophic political spiritual and economic improvements (or enlightenments) are just there in our grasp....but maybe the people in control (of the military state complex, of big business, of the means of production) are too habituated to let go? And the workers similarly: and the "good" left are now too cynical or skeptical: eg I'd like to believe that Tony Blair wants a better world: maybe he does...lets hope that this all forces Bush and his cohorts, and maybe the leaders and the people of the world,to do "good": maybe be isnt as bad as we all think. Understandable to be hawkish and angry after Bin Laden: but oncce you've dealt with him etal : what then ? Everything comes right? Or in 10 years we get a bigger sligshot hurled at us...and I say us...we are all in this, for or against. Let's hope: maybe I'm becoming soft. Let's hope. But I dont want to see young men of any nation die needlessly. Execute me, but dont bomb people. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Vidaver" To: Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:09 AM Subject: Post-WTC Review of Empire by Hardt & Negri > The recent London Review of Books has a worthwhile article on Empire, by > Malcolm Bull. I don't endorse the importation of Isaiah Berlin's tired > conceptual apparatus of "positive & negative freedom" in order to debunk > autonomist political theory, but, well: > http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n19/bull2319.htm > > Theres' also a brief statement by Michael Hardt at: > http://slash.autonomedia.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/26/1250203 > > Excerpt from Bull: > > If the 'war against terrorism' is going to be less of a fiasco than the 'war > on drugs', it requires global social inclusivity and reciprocity. Total > social control involves a degree of microregulation with which individuals > have to co-operate. One way totalitarian societies have differed from those > that are merely authoritarian is in their provision of work and healthcare. > (If you want to keep track of people you cannot abandon them when they are > unemployed or sick.) The link between welfare and totalitarianism works both > ways: social regulation and inclusion go together. If the US wants to make > the world a safer place, it will eventually have to offer, or force other > governments to provide, the population of the entire world with the means to > participate in global society. This will involve real constraints on the > operation of the market, particularly finance capital. Tuesday, 11 September > 2001 may prove to be the date at which Neoliberalism and globalisation > parted company. > > 'Nous sommes tous Américains,' proclaimed the editorial in Le Monde. And not > just those who were horrified by the hijackings: the attack on New York and > Washington was not an act of war against a foreign enemy (it had no > strategic value) but a protest that implicitly acknowledged the sovereignty > of the United States. 'I am an American Airlines pilot,' boasted one > hijacker, drinking in his local bar. A mixture of black humour and wishful > thinking no doubt, but a clear indication of psychological proximity. If > Americans fail to understand why their country is hated, it is often because > they barely comprehend the extent of its influence. No one travels halfway > round the world to kill themselves amid a people with whom they feel no > connection. Even in the Arabian desert, America is uncomfortably close. For > the US, it may seem like a foreign war, but on the other side it is more > like a civil war, dividing families - the bin Ladens, for instance. > > One thing that the hijackings have brought to the surface is the extent to > which 'the primordial founding myth' of a total society is already available > in the history of the United States. At one level, Hardt and Negri recognise > this. Their work is free of the European Left's residual anti-Americanism > and represents a systematic effort to appropriate the American myth for the > global multitude. But theirs is the America of potentia not of potestas. > They miss the point that even if the multitude could create its own > Americas, it would be stronger under the sovereignty of the existing one - > not just materially better off, but better able to bring about its social > and political objectives. The international Left's few successes of the past > fifty years - decolonisation, anti-racism, the women's movement, cultural > anti-authoritarianism - have all had proper (and often official) backing > from within the United States. The United States is no utopia, but a utopian > politics now has to be routed through it. Anti-globalisation is often an > argument for the globalisation of American norms - why should workers in the > Philippines have fewer rights than their American counterparts? Israel will > join the list of 'rogue states' only when the United States becomes more > representative of the population of the world. The totalitarian regimes of > the 20th century got a bad name less because of their monopolistic control > of everyday life than on account of their stifling insistence on a maxim of > shared values, and their draconian punishments for nonconformity. They were, > in Durkheimian terms, attempts to create total communities rather than total > societies. The US offers a model for a different type of totalitarianism. > Within a total society - a world of universal anomie populated by the > hybridised subjects of mutual recognition - monopolistic microregulation > need not be concerned with conformity. Of course, a global United States is > not a total society, but total society is rapidly becoming more imaginable > than the state of nature from which political theorising has traditionally > started. In this situation, we need to start thinking in new ways. Negri's > version of what Althusser called 'totality without closure' is a politics > without a social contract, 'a constituent power without limitations'. But in > a total society, it is not the social that needs a contract but the > individual - an anti-social contract that creates individual spaces in a > world totally regulated by meaningless mutuality. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 23:28:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Scappettone" Subject: town gown etc Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Elizabeth, You're absolutely right: compassion is a much better way of putting it and a much better thing to ask for than cooperation. Sorry about the latter. Chalk the tension in it up to my having been verbally attacked/threatened that entire week, as a number of friends were, for having passed teach-in announcements, other news, et al around; it wasn't personally directed. I didn't mean to come across as 1984ish only as desiring a hearing from traditional allies when it seemed like no one with the most slightly aberrant views was getting a hearing, especially young people (the New York Times noted in its Tuesday "coverage" of war protests that marchers in Washington DC were "mostly young people"; added to the young people and apparently just as unconvincing to reporters were the "old peacenik"s); that moment appears to have possibly passed. This might be counterintuitive, but I also didn't mean for the "you" of that last sentence to read as the singular you; I hoped to address "fellow members of the left," so it was a more global bid to give the present kids a chance before choosing to side or not. Otherwise I wouldn't have responded in the first place. That's it; sorry about the miscommunications & thanks for the responses js ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:29:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Welcome, Miguel In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Miguel -- Abrazos -- welcome to the Poetics List -- One frustration that >many of us in the USA face is the difficulty of learning of new poets in >Mexico (or anywhere in the Spanish-speaking world for that matter) -- I >used to get tips from my friend Alicia Partnoy back when she worked at >Hispania Books in Washington, D.C. -- But now I'm here in Pennsylvania, >where it's hard enough to hear of poets in English -- It would be a great >help to all of us if you'd be willing, from time to time, to point us in >the direction of publications where we can read new writers in Mexico -- >City Lights Books did a nice anthology of Mexican writers some years ago, >but I haven't seen anything to match it since ---- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " chaos is not our condition." --Charles Olson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:55:11 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: FW: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from a newsgroup... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Who Benefits from the World Trade Center/Pentagon Attacks? Who Benefits? That's always the first question to consider when a "terrorist" attack occurs. Instead of clenching one's fist, waving one's flag and shouting vindictive slogans, let's just stop for a moment of calm analysis of the basic facts. When we analyze who benefits, we immediately will know with over 99% surety, who did it! What was the tone of U.S. and world opinion just a week or two before the attacks? In the U.S., the economy was lagging badly, the stock market was falling, many were questioning if the government's taxes were legal, the Gary Condit case had been poorly handled, people continued to question Waco and the Oklahoma City bombing, they questioned our support of Israel in her policies regarding the Palestinians, and the approval rate of President Bush was low. What about World Opinion? Just 8 days before the WTC/Pentagon attacks, Israel was stunned by a UN decision equating Zionism with Racism, according to Ha'aretz Daily.com. Israel was branded a "racist apartheid" state by thousands of non-governmental organizations (NGOs) attending a U.N. World Conference Against Racism in Durban, South Africa. The conference was attended by representatives of 153 governments. The declaration, adopted by 3,000 NGOs in 44 regional and interest-based caucuses, shocked Jewish groups. Foreign Minister Shimon Peres called the anti-Israel declarations a disgrace, and said that Israel was "seriously" contemplating withdrawing from the conference in protest. The Israeli delegation to the conference blasted the language of the NGO declaration as an incitement to hatred of Jews. Jewish delegates walked out. The U.S. delegates followed. The Forum accused the Jewish state of "systematic perpetration of racist crimes including war crimes, acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing" in its treatment of the Palestinians. In addition, the head of the Danish Red Cross, Freddy Karup Pederson, told the Danish Parliamentary Foreign Affairs Committee that the lifestyle of Jewish settlers in the Palestinian territories resembles that of whites under the former racist apartheid system. He also criticized Israel's collective punishment of the Palestinian population. So, just 8 days before the attacks, the overwhelming attitude of the nations of the world was against Israel's policies and in support of the Arab countries' charges against Israel, a nation heavily supported by, and allied with, the U.S. What has happened to U.S. and World Opinion SINCE the attacks? Immediately AFTER the attack, public opinion was turned 180 degrees. Now the Arab countries are being demonized, the U.S. population is overwhelmingly backing the President (according to the Washington Post), urging him to punish, kill, destroy, annihilate the perpetrators of this crime, even though no one really has any proof who did it, the U.S. government is preparing for war, the U.S. and Israel have carte blanche support to bomb nearly every Arab country out of existence. No one is questioning anymore the "apartheid" policies of the Israelis against the Palestinians. War, as politicians have known throughout history, stimulates the economy and (if the propaganda is handled properly) unifies the population behind the President and squelches ALL criticism. Anyone who is not 100% behind the President is considered a traitor. President Bush in a televised Speech to Congress, urged global support for his war on terrorists, warning the world: "either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." (Washington AFP) 9-21-01 (An effective way to stifle all dissent!) If you don't go along with the plan for destruction of the Arabs advocated by the government, you become the target of threats and must have bodyguards, as California Democrat Barbara Lee has discovered. She cast the lone vote in Congress against the use of military force in response to the WTC/Pentagon attacks and now must have Police guarding her Capitol Hill office. (Reuters, AP, ABCNEWS.com 9-18-01) What ELSE has happened since the attacks? 1) The population has been prepared for a long term war where the number of U.S. casualties will be high (Washington Post Online September 21, 2001). 2) Bush creates a High Office of "Homeland Security" supposedly to protect Americans from attack. The job would involve coordination of government-wide domestic security efforts, including meshing domestic FBI and foreign CIA intelligence, working with U.S. military, emergency officials and state and local governments. The Homeland Defense position "would probably not need Senate confirmation, which other Cabinet jobs require, nor legislation to create" White House officials said. So there would be no investigation, oversight nor accountability for this person. (Reuters - Washington 9-21-01) (Perfect conditions to appoint a crony) 3) U.S. orders 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine for $343 million in preparation for a possible bioterrorism assault. The contract has been given to a small, Cambridge-based firm, Acambis, a British biotechnology company who reported a net loss of $8 million in the six months prior to June 30, unchanged from last year. (How convenient to get this huge order! It would be interesting to find out the conflict of interest issues here.) (Reuters News, London 9-20-01) PREPARING THE POPULATION TO EXPECT BIO-TERRORISM. 4) "America and Britain are producing secret plans to launch a ten year "war on terrorism" - Operation Noble Eagle - involving a completely new military and diplomatic strategy to eliminate terrorist networks and cells around the world." (The Times - London 9-20-01) 5) The Senate OKs FBI Spying on the Internet: FBI agents soon will be able to spy on Internet users legally without a court order. Two days after the terrorist attack, the Senate approved the "Combating Terrorism Act of 2001" which enhances police wiretap powers and permits monitoring in more situations. The FBI's surveillance system is called Carnivore. (Lycos Network 9-20-01) MORE CONTROL! 6) The U.S. Plans to overthrow Taliban and put Afghanistan under UN Control, according to The Guardian - London (9-21-01) NOTE: Yugoslavia is ALREADY under UN control. (MORE UN CONTROL) 7) A global surveillance system known as Echelon exists and has the ability to eavesdrop on telephone calls, faxes and e-mail messages, a European Parliament committee has concluded. (Lycos Network 9-20-01) MORE CONTROL! 8) Face-ID Technology gains new support. "State lawmakers who were planning to sponsor legislation restricting its use now say they are reassessing their plans." MORE CONTROL! (Denver Post Capitol Bureau, 9-20-01) 9) "Experts See a High-Security America of Surveillance & Seizures": New York: Security Experts in the United States are describing a new kind of country that could emerge, where electronic identification might become the norm, immigrants might be tracked far more closely and the airspace over cities like New York and Washington might be off-limits to all civilian aircraft." (The International Herald Tribune 9-19-01) MORE SURVEILLANCE OF U.S. CITIZENS. 10) "Lawmakers See Need to Loosen Rules on CIA" Congressional leaders who oversee the nation's intelligence system have concluded that America's spy agencies should be allowed to combat terrorism with more aggressive tactics, including the hiring of unsavory foreign agents, including revived discussion of reversing the US 25 year ban on using covert agents to assassinate foreigners. R. James Woolsey, the former director of the CIA said that "Washington has absolutely undergone a sea change in thinking this week." (New York Times, 9-16-01) MORE SURVEILLANCE OF U.S. CITIZENS! 11) NATO Announces a Third World War is Almost Upon Us. A pentagon spokesman hinted towards potential targets being Libya, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, Syria and others. (NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson) 12) California Congresswoman, Mary Bono, R-Palm Springs warned that the country should prepare for a fight against international terrorists that will likely include personal sacrifice, the use of ground troops overseas and the risk of retaliation against civilians by the enemy. She also predicts intense scrutiny of airline passengers, a national system of fingerprinting and identification cards and the specter of chemical and biological attacks on the U.S. (The Desert Sun 9-18-01) 13) An enemy is needed to justify a $344 Billion War Budget, when the federal government currently spends only $42 billion on education, $26 billion on affordable housing and $1 billion on school construction. 14) President Bush sent his anti-terrorism bill to Congress one week after the WTC/Pentagon attack, launching an emotional debate that will force U.S. politicians to choose between continued freedom for Americans or greater security. (Lycos Network 9-20-01) DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO WRITE ONE OF THESE BILLS? IT TAKES MONTHS! They are hundreds of pages long. THIS ONE WAS OBVIOUSLY WRITTEN BEFORE THE ATTACK! How convenient! Wake up America! 15) "President George Bush focused his energy on building a GLOBAL ALLIANCE for a fight against terrorism..." (MSNBC 9-18-01) Here comes the New World Order! 16) Fast-Moving House Bill Restricts Liberties - Much of it Unrelated to Terrorism! Congress is being asked to rush to pass emergency anti-terrorist legislation written by the Department of Justice, but much of the legislation turns out to have nothing to do with fighting terrorism. Instead, the legislation contains a host of items which have been on the bureaucratic wish lists for many years. 17) "We Must Ignore the Peace Lobby and Show No Restraint" says The Independent - London (9-24-01) 18) Bush Suspends Habeas Corpus: Legal Immigrants May Be Held Without Cause: "The Bush Administration today announced it is using its powers under the National Emergency Act to suspend the right of Habeas Corpus for all immigrants in the country, including legal immigrants, meaning that any immigrant in the U.S. right now can be held INDEFINITELY by the police or government WITHOUT TRIAL OR DEMONSTRATION OF CAUSE TO HOLD THEM." Though no one has yet suggested infringing the rights of U.S. citizens, the move is a frightening first step to a national tyranny, based on perpetual suspension of the Constitution in the name of fighting perpetual war." 19) President Bush has agreed to bail out the airlines with BILLIONS of dollars, an industry that was swimming in red ink LONG BEFORE the WTC/Pentagon attacks. What was known BEFORE the attack - and by whom? 1) Echelon Gave Authorities 3 Month Warning of Attacks - German Paper: Frankfurt, Germany - U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies received warning signals at least three months ago that terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American culture, according to a story in Germany's daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeiung (FAZ). Newsbytes.com 2) U.S. planned to attack Taliban BEFORE WTC/Pentagon Attacks: A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the U.S. was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban even before last week's attacks. Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. (BBC News 9-18-01) 3) Expert - Russia Knew In Advance...Encouraged Citizens to Cash Out Dollars: Russian press accounts and other activities by the Russian government this summer indicate that the Russians knew in advance that something would happen to America, including a "financial attack" against the U.S. During the past three months, Russian media and officials have encouraged citizens to cash out of U.S. dollars pending an economic collapse there after an "attack." (NewsMax.com 9-17-01) 4) FBI tracked man in custody 2 weeks before attacks: "Two weeks before the terrorist attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C., FBI agents were at a flight school in Oklahoma asking questions about a man now suspected of having a link to those attacks", according to CNN. "The fact that FBI agents were at the Airman Flight School in Norman, Oklahoma, two weeks before any attacks would seem to contradict the agency's assertion that it was not aware of any connection between aviation schools and suspected terrorists. FBI Director Robert Mueller has stated publicly, "There were NO warning signs that I'm aware of that would indicate this type of operation in the country," (CNN.com 9-18-01) SOMEBODY IS LYING! 5) U.S. Pulled Plug on 500 Arab/Muslim Websites the Day BEFORE Jetliner Attacks: Five hundred websites - many of them with an Arab or Muslim connection - crashed when an anti-terrorism task force raided InfoCom Corporation in Texas. The 80-strong task force that descended upon the IT company included FBI agents, Secret Service agents, Diplomatic Security agents, tax inspectors, immigration officials, customs officials, department of commerce officials and computer experts. (Brian Whitaker 9-12-01) 6) U.S. was warned in 1995 of plot to hijack planes, attack buildings: The FBI was warned six years ago of a terrorist plot to hijack commercial planes and slam them into the Pentagon, The CIA headquarters and other buildings, Philippine investigators told CNN. The plan was termed Project Bojinka. (Manila, Philippines CNN 9-18-01) 7) "U.S. Government Had Prior Knowledge of Emergency: The most massive so-called "terrorist" attacks on U.S. soil since the Oklahoma City bombings of 1995, were known, a week ahead of time, by the American CIA. Among the foreign intelligence agencies who penetrated the plots were the French CIA and Israel's The Mossad, units of both often working with one another. "Foreign intelligence sources confirm the validity of this story. And they state that they informed the U.S. secret police who absolutely failed, neglected, and outright refused to take action as to known prior specifics of which the top-level of the CIA were informed in advance." (www.skolnicksreport.com 9-13-01) HOW INTERESTING! 8) Spy in the White House? "Terrorists" had Ultra Secret Codes on 911: (DEBKA Intelligence Files 9-22-01) 9) More Unusual Market Activity Reported BEFORE Attacks: "Chicago traders on Wednesday cited unusual activity in airline options up to a month before attacks on U.S. landmarks, and German bankers reported brisk activity in reinsurer Munich Re shares, adding to speculation that those behind the attacks tried to profit from their acts. (Reuters 9-20-01) So how come EVERYONE else knew this was going to happen? Why would the U.S. refuse to investigate when told, unless it was their own plan all along? BIG CLUE!! Why did the Towers IMPLODE instead of EXPLODE? The towers came down as gracefully as a fountain of water. "Too methodical to be a chance result of airplanes colliding with the structures" said Van Romero, vice president for research at New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology. "My opinion is that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse," Romero said. Romero is a former director of the Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center at Tech, which studies explosive materials and the effects of explosions on buildings, aircraft and other structures. The Towers IMPLODED! They did NOT explode! A fuel fire causes an EXplosion, not an IMplosion. Explosions explode OUT. Implosions, implode IN! IMPLOSIONS can ONLY occur with immense planning by a highly skilled group of craftsmen educated in the unique skill of demolishing buildings by strategically placing explosive devices within the building. This requires many experts, much time and significant access to the building beforehand. The skill of implosion of buildings was developed primarily to demolish buildings in areas of high building density, so the destruction of the structure will not cause damage to the surrounding buildings. In addition, the towers came down long after the planes struck. To suggest that fuel dumping from the airplanes caused a fire hot enough to melt the inner structure is ludicrous. First of all, who can prove the planes dumped all of their fuel into the core of the building? Second, why did the fuel take so long to catch fire? Third, fuel-fires cause EXplosions, NOT IMplosions! Fourth, the structure was built to withstand temperatures of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to the architect and designer of the building, a man who is now deceased, but who preserved this nugget of information in an interview he recorded in 1998. Hyman Brown, a University of Colorado civil engineering professor and the World Trade Center's construction manager, watched in confusion as the towers came down. "It was over-designed to withstand almost anything including hurricanes, high winds, bombings and an airplane hitting it," he said. (Scripps Howard News Service 9-11,01 and 9-12-01) So, why was it necessary to implode the whole structure? To eliminate evidence, just as was done to the Murrah building in Oklahoma City, before the forensic specialists could get in to examine the evidence. Just like the Branch Davidian compound at Waco was bulldozed by the government before any evidence could be examined. Conclusion: This was a highly skilled endeavor by a large group of well-trained people with access to the buildings, the airplanes and the explosives. They would have had to blend into the population and not look suspicious. Question: Who would have these qualifications? Certainly not a large group of Arab "terrorists"! Where are the "Indestructible" Black Boxes? All four Black Boxes were supposedly destroyed and rendered unusable in spite of the fact that they are designed specifically for plane crashes which result in insurmountable conditions. In fact there are reported to be TWO Black Boxes on each plane, but apparently ALL EIGHT of the Black Boxes are completely destroyed. Strange indeed! ABC News Reports: The Black Box is "ALMOST INDESTRUCTIBLE. IT IS DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND HEAT OF UP TO 2,000 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT FOR ONE HOUR, salt water for at least 30 days, immersion in a variety of liquids such as jet fuel and lubricants, AND AN IMPACT OF 3,400 G's. By comparison, astronauts are typically exposed to up to six Gs during a shuttle takeoff." Yet CNN reported that "In New York, several blocks from the ruins of the World Trade Center, a passport authorities said belonged to one of the hijackers was discovered a few days ago, according to city Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik." The paper passport apparently survived intact! The "indestructible Black Boxes were destroyed! Hmmm! Who Has Claimed Responsibility? Within HOURS after the attack the U.S. was aggressively touting Osama bin Laden as the "terrorist" responsible for this dastardly deed. As one writer to a popular website noted, "I find it laughable that the agency notorious for its inability to find a bleeding elephant in a snowbank suddenly (within hours of the attack) has the culprit pinpointed!" The media continuously whips up the public to indiscriminate hatred of almost any Arab. On radio, on TV, in the newspapers and in magazines, all one hears or reads is HATE towards Osama bin Laden, or any other Muslim. The Globe, a well-known grocery store rag, contains pictures of Osama Bin Laden with rifle "cross-hairs" targeted over his face and a soldier in fatigues pointing an automatic rifle at his head. Yet these same media outlets pompously demand the elimination of "hate!" It is USUAL and CUSTOMARY for Terrorist groups to claim responsibility for an attack. Yet no such claim has been made. Osama bin Laden says he didn't do it. "We have been blamed in the past, but we were not involved," he said. (The Guardian - London 9-17-01) "Egyptian President Mubarak still has not seen bin Laden proof," according to a Paris AFP report. "Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak says he has not seen any proof of Osama bin Laden being "the brains" behind the terrorist attacks on the United States and warns Washington against over-hasty reprisals, in a newspaper interview published on 9-24-01. Saddam Hussein, in a letter to the American People noted that "when the event took place, Arab rulers and the rulers of countries whose religions is Islam, rushed to condemn the event." (Iraqi News Agency 916-01) There are even reports that Osama bin Laden has been, and may still now be, an operative of the U.S. CIA. And now, according to The Washington Post (9-25-01), The U.S. is now "Unsure" of Going Public with the "Proof" of Osama bin Laden's responsibility for the "terrorist" attack. With the U.S. public, and other nations, demanding proof, the Bush administration is hiding behind the cloak of "National Security." Secretary of State Colin Powell promised that the U.S. "soon" would "put out a paper. . that will describe quite clearly the evidence that we have linking" bin Laden to the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. But Rep. Porter Goss (R-Fla), chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, said that the administration cannot present its full case "without revealing some sources and methods that we would not want to reveal." HOW INTERESTING AND CONVENIENT FOR THEM! Now Let's Consider - Are There Other Countries, besides the Arabs, who have ever been involved in terrorism? According to the Washington Report, "In 1967 on the fourth day of the Six Day War, the armed forces of Israel attacked the American intelligence ship USS Liberty for 90 minutes in international waters in broad daylight following several hours of close, low-level reconnaissance. Thirty-four men died, 171 were hurt, and the ship was so badly damaged that it had to be scrapped. The government of Israel has lied about the circumstances ever since, telling a story markedly different from that told by American survivors. Congress has refused to question Israel's demonstrably false account. Why would Israel risk alienating its American friends? Why did Israel attack? According to eyewitness accounts by Israeli officers and journalists, the Israeli Army executed as many as 1,000 Arab prisoners during the 1967 war. Historian Gabby Bron wrote in the Yediot Ahronot in Israel that he witnessed Israeli troops executing Egyptian prisoners on the morning of June 8, 1967, in the Sinai town of El Arish, including about 150 Egyptian POWs. They made the prisoners dig their own graves then they were shot as they stood at the edge of the grave. As those executions were underway, America's most sophisticated intelligence platform, USS Liberty, was less than 13 miles from El Arish, close enough to see the town mosque with the naked eye. With binoculars one could make out individual buildings and might have seen the executions if one had looked in the right place. The attack on the USS Liberty lasted 75 minutes. It was not brief nor accidental as Israel claims. The Israelis wantonly destroyed life rafts in the water and they jammed international radio distress frequencies while Americans, who might have been saved, died! The United States is no stranger to perpetrating acts of terrorism against other countries. The U.S. bombed Iraq unmercifully during the Gulf War. Thousands of private citizens were slaughtered. Then a deadly embargo was put in place to destroy them slowly by illness and starvation. What was the crime of the common people? The U.S. CIA has also been involved in covert wars all over the globe, raping and pillaging entire economies of Central American and other countries. In addition, the U.S. is not above turning on its own citizens with vengeance. FDR Knew About Pearl Harbor: John Flynn made a sound case for Roosevelt's foreknowledge in 1946, the historian Charles Beard confirmed it in 1948 with his book FDR and the Coming of the War 1941. John Toland told the story in Infamy in the early 1980s, and John Stinnett followed with Day of Deceit. They all understood FDR's manipulation of, and complicity in, the attack on Pearl Harbor. It was done to incite the U.S. citizens to hate the Japanese and push them to support the U.S. entry into World War II. And it worked beautifully! Americans willingly gave their own lives and the lives of their sons to fight a war that had nothing to do with them. FDR knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Not only did he refuse to stop it, he encouraged it by his manipulative treatment of Japan prior to the attack, and his stationing of ships in the Hawaiian port, an easy target for the Japanese. (Antiwar.com) It worked magnificently then - and it is working magnificently now! Other acts of violence that must be considered are: The Randy Weaver family killings by the U.S. government in Idaho, the Waco horror where the U.S. shot, bulldozed and set on fire its own citizens, and the Oklahoma bombing, where there is abundant information pointing to U.S. Government involvement . Why would a government plan an attack its own citizens, while blaming another? What would it have to gain? The answer is: EVERYTHING! Go back and review what has happened SINCE the attack: The U.S. Government has dramatically increased its control over the American population while destroying the rights of the people, a situation necessary for the takeover of the U.S. and eventually, all other countries, by the New World Order to be run by the United Nations. And they're doing it with the citizens' complete support. "The President has the power to seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, call reserve forces amounting to 2 1/2 million men to duty, institute martial law, seize and control all means of transportation, regulate all private enterprise, restrict travel, and in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of ALL Americans...While the danger of a dictatorship arising through legal means may seem remote to us today..." --A Joint Statement by Senators Frank Church (D-ID) and Charles McMathias (R-MD) September 30, 1973. HOW PROPHETIC! A SURE ROAD TO DICTATORSHIP! U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft Seeks Sweeping Powers! "The United States will remain vulnerable to terrorist attacks unless law enforcement agencies are given a wide range of new counterterrorism tools, including improved wiretap capabilities and easier access to voice mail and Internet user's personal information, Attorney General John Ashcroft told lawmakers Monday." (MSNBC 9-25-01) A third of New Yorkers support internment camps (concentration camps) for "individuals who authorities identify as being sympathetic to terrorist causes," according to a poll form the Siena College Research Institute. (Newsday.com 9-25-01) (Remember that President Bush has said that if you don't support the U.S. government 100% in their handling of this situation - - - YOU ARE SIDING WITH THE TERRORISTS!) Public Opinion has overwhelming turned from support for the Arabs and against Israel, to supporting Israel and their ally, the U.S. and hatred against the Arab countries. And now the U.S. has the support of the entire nation, and much of the world, for its unrestrained unleashing of vengeance on ANY and EVERY Arab nation. But it's not surprising that the U.S. and Israel are the ONLY countries where the majority backs a military strike (Reuters 9-22-01). >From Stern.Intel: Israeli Mossad Links to World Trade Center Attack: "A U.S. military intelligence source revealed details of an internal intelligence memo that points to the Israeli Mossad intelligence service having links to the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks... "The attacks have certainly turned U.S. public opinion firmly back in Israel's favor after eleven months of Palestinian uprising, heavy criticism of Israel over war crimes allegations and racism by a UN conference in Durban." Lebanese Druze Leader Believes CIA, Mossad Responsible for U.S. Attacks! Lebanon's anti-Syrian Druze leader Walid Jumblatt believes the CIA and Israel's secret service Mossad are behind the terrorist attacks in the United States, and that Saudi extremist Osama bin Laden is an "American agent," newspaper reports said. (Beirut AFP 9-15-01) Fake Terror has been the Road to Dictatorship for thousands of years. It's the oldest trick in the book, dating back to Roman times. Create the enemies you need! A wise philosopher has unveiled the irony of it all: "To restore our freedom, we will need to be deprived of it. To recover from senseless murder, we will need to perpetrate more of it," or so says the President. So, Who's Responsible? The Answer is: Who Benefits? You figure it out! Note: If all of this is discouraging to you, there is a Bright Side. Human governments ARE NOT MEANT to work well. They will ALL fail. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:50:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: the language school gene Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The last paragraph of this morning's NY TIMES article on the possible discovery of a "language" or language-centered gene quotes a skeptic who remarks that the discovery supplies "soft support, though not hard support" for Noam Chomsky's thesis on the innateness of language. Does anybody else out there sense a new anthology war bubbling up through that binary???? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " chaos is not our condition." --Charles Olson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 08:45:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Israel In-Reply-To: <015101c14b46$69171980$841a86d4@overgrowngarden> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hi lawrence: i think it was ron who used the term "abandon Israel" in his long post "what is to be done." you responded, as i recall, by saying something like, you didn't see why the US couldn't do so. yes, "abandon" is a dramatic word and one that made me have to re-examine my easy and pro-forma anti-zionism. At 2:29 PM +0100 10/2/01, Lawrence Upton wrote: >Maria > >I think that recent events have shown that being in the USA does not >necessarily provide safety. > >That does not mean that it is a particularly dangerous place to be. (A >number of north Americans have remarked to me recently that they feel >worried about being in London now - after a lifetime of things exploding I >don't feel particularly worried; but there is nowhere safe except relatively > >Many of the *Jews who are in Israel now *left USA; many had the opportunity >to go to USA and chose not to > >I am concerned about the safety of the Palestinians who were *not in any >great danger until this dangerous and immoral experiment was embarked upon > >I am all for safety. I am all for all perceived ethnic groups being treated >equally. I am against privileging one group over another in safety or in >anything else... > >I think that I picked up the phrase "abandon Israel"... Concentrating on it >now, I would say that it is time for USA and UK to stop arming that Israel >and to practice some of that "linkage" which seeks to be practiced on racial >grounds - unsafe and rubbish safe havens for Kurds and th armoury of hell >for Israelis > >The support anyone is given, particularly military support, should be >contingent upon behaviour. The support given to Israel is often used to maim >and kill Palestinians regardless of their behaviour. > >Milosevic is charged, Sharon is not > >Before, there is any talk of removing people to USA, let's remember that in >the main the borders of Israel have been conceded although there hasn't been >a proper reciprocationby Israel. If the 1/5th of a million Israelis now >occupuying land which is not within Israel were to remove themselves to >Israel, there could well be peace. > >That is not to say the peace will be absolute. There never will be absolute >peace anywhere. But there could be something fairly near it. I see no reason >why there should not. It should certainly be tried. > >L > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Maria Damon" >To: >Sent: 01 October 2001 22:19 >Subject: Re: Israel > > >| i for one would be happy to airlift all Jews --and anyone else who'd like >| to come along --in Israel to the united states and *then* allow the US to >| "abandon Israel." but i don't think they'd all want to come. Israel was >| an experiment that does not seem to have worked, but before abandoning it >| there must be some situation whereby Jews can live in safety. >| >| At 2:28 AM +0100 9/29/01, Lawrence Upton wrote: >| >----- Original Message ----- >| >From: "Kenneth M. Dauber" >| >To: >| >Sent: 28 September 2001 21:02 >| >Subject: Israel >| > >| > >| >| The only thing everybody seems to agree on is that, whatever cause it >has >| >| been in leading to the attacks of September 11, the United States' >policy >| >| in relation to Israel needs to be changed. It is hard, however, to >| >| understand what, in justice, this means. >| > >| >No, it's very easy... >| > >| >for the rest of what you say, I got an uneasy sense of deja vu.I'm sure I >| >have read all that before. Many times. Many many times >| > >| >| and what Arafat rejected >| >| by launching his second intifada, without so much as a negotiation for >a >| >| better deal. >| > >| >Well, that's the word from Israel. Me, I say maybe. I'd also say that the >| >Palestinians could do a lot better than Arafat and what he may or may not >do >| >does not alter the injustice of their situation. I mean I don't judge >| >USAmericans by their Presidents and they get some kind of choice while >| >there's no real choice for the Palestinians; and I'd be totally pissed >off >| >if you judged me on the basis of Tony Blair >| > >| > We need to be reminded that a Palestinian state alongside of >| >| Israel was what all the Arab nations rejected in '48, >| > >| >& we need to be reminded that the Israeli state had no business being >there; >| >it was a cuckoo >| > >| >But Israel is very strong, courtesy in part of USA and to a lesser extent >UK >| > >| >As a result, many but not all, I agree, have conceded the existence of >| >Israel, but that's a response to its power not its legitimacy... in >addition >| >there now could be no justice if those who have been born since the >| >establishment of the state of israel were just uprooted >| > >| >BUT bringing up the resistance post 1948 is not relevant. of course the >| >arabs resisted. What would you expect them to do? Now there is a desire >for >| >a settlement on the basis of the internationally-agreed borders. It >doesn't >| >look as though Israel wants to settle... I'd raise the internationally >| >agreed borders and that 200000 squatters the wrong side of it >| > >| >| they controlled all of the West Bank and Gaza, where they preferred >| >keeping >| >| the Palestinians in miserable refugee camps to a genuine Palestinian >| >| homeland, >| > >| >excuse me? They had a genuine homeland. It was full of people who had >| >immigrated from all over the world in defiance of the decision of those >who >| >ruled Palestine until 1948 and later on the basis of race >| > >| >The American and Australian first peoples have been blamed for their own >| >misery which had been visited upon them by invading foreigners >| > >| >resulting in another war when Israel rejected Nasser's call to >| >| "push them to the sea"; and it is what Arafat continues to reject, both >| >| overtly and by refusing to reign in the absolutely rejectionist >Hizbollah >| > >| >rein in... I doubt he can; but that has nothing to do with the wrongness >of >| >the theft of Palestinian land. Nor is it fair to keep quoting only the >most >| >extreme statements. A few weeks ago we had a report here with the most >awful >| >frightening things being shouted by Israelis about Arabs - but one >doesn't >| >assume that represents all their views all the time >| > >| >What Nasser shouted at time of war needs to be read in that context. >| > >| >| and Hamas, who, also overtly, say they want no Jews living anywhere >from >| >| the Jordan to the Mediterranean. >| > >| >which is not justifiable; but one can see how they came to that state of >| >mind >| > >| >| It's convenient to blame Israel for the state of Arab and Palestinian >| >| suffering in the Middle East and to romanticize Arafat as a freedom >| >| fighter. >| > >| >those are two quite separate things and it confuses the issue to mix them >up >| > >| > But even in relation to their own people, Arafat and the >| >| Palestinian Authority have behaved like a bunch of thugs an crooks, >| >| squirreling away into Swiss bank accounts the millions upon millions of >| >| dollars that have poured into them from the United States, as a result >of >| >| the Oslo accords, and from the Arab oil nations, instead of using them >to >| >| create a Palestinian economy, and preventing almost any freedom of >dissent >| >| with repression and murder. >| > >| >I get that deja vu again. You haven't mentioned Sabra and Shatila... and >| >Southern Lebanon... using "the millions upon millions of dollars that >have >| >poured into [Israel] from the United States" >| > >| >| Let the PA's praise as martyrs of suicide blowing up of restaurants >and >| >| discotechs stop; let the PA's state media stop demonizing Israelis as >they >| >| do in the most conventional anti-Jewish fashion (pictures of Jews with >| >long >| >| noses and all); >| > >| >*state media? yes, I think they should declare a state; and a capital >| > >| > let Arafat start telling his people, in Arabic, that they >| >| must accept an independent Israel as a now and forever fact, whether >they >| >| like it or not; >| > >| >"Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I >given >| >unto you, as I said unto Moses. >| >4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the >river >| >Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward >the >| >going down of the sun, shall be your coast. >| >5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of >thy >| >life " >| > >| >One of the most attractive things about US culture is the racial melting >pot >| >and I am confused by USAmericans who will both see that as positive in >their >| >own country and yet resist the concept in Palestine with such >| >self-destructive passion >| > >| > >| >L >| -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 07:40:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kiwi Comments: To: Sverre Lyngstad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, Although Gellu Naum's death has already been reported to the Poetics List, I thought members of the list and friends of Green Integer and Sun & Moon Press would be interested in the short obituary which appeared in the New York Times this morning (October 4th). Gellu Naum, a leading Surrealist literary figure here (Burcharest), died on Saturday of a heart attack. He was 86. During a career as a poet, playwright and translator that lasted more than 65 years, Mr. Naum published 20 books of poetry, numerous plays and a novel. Born in 1915, and the son of a poet, Mr. Naum studied philosophy in Burcharest and Paris, publishing his first poetry book, The = Incendiary Traveler, in 1936. He was recognized worldwide as a prominent=20 Surrealist, and his works were translated into English, German, French and other languages; his Surrealist novel, Zenobia, was published in 1985. Mr. Naum also translated works by Beckett, Ren=E9 Char, Jacques Pr=E9vert and Kafka into Romanian. He received numerous international and national awards for his = work,=20 including the 1999 European Prize for Poetry. Naum's novel is available from Northwestern University Press. Green = Integer, moreover, published his autobiographal collage and assisted cut-up = "pohem" My Tired Father. In honor of Naum's memory, we are offering My Tired = Father to members of this list for a 20% discount. If you send a check for = $7.16 (the orignal price is $8.95) plus $1.50 for postage (total $8.66) we will be happy to = send you a copy of this wonderful book. Please write checks to Douglas Messerli = (not Green Integer) at 6026 Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles, CAlifornia 90036. Be = sure to include your name and address. Douglas Messerli ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:08:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: Israel In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii While yes, I would agree that some amount of dissent is allowed in Israel, I wanted to offer this one anecdote: when I lived there in 1987, I listened to a radio station which broadcast in English as "the Voice of Peace" and always said they were broadcasting "from somewhere in the Mediterranean." It was a kind of pirate radio station that was leftist and played hippie music and had arts programming, and was the alternative to the state-run radio station which had solider DJs. They had to broadcast from a boat that kept moving because the Israeli gov't was always trying to shut them down. I believe it doesn't exist at all anymore. Where is "the Voice of Peace" when you need it?! Arielle --- Robert Corbett wrote: > btw, the talk of Israeli as a "democracy" always is > bothersome to me, > since they still use laws on the books from the > Ottoman Empire to claim > settlements in Palestine. and when I say still, I > mean to this day. I am > sure there is legal mumbo jumbo that authorizes > this, but this is either > inexcusable, or it suggests that "Empire" is a > better way of > understanding the way the world works--literally. > democracy is always > "democracy for whom?". > > that said, apparently people in the West Bank and > Gaza, when asked to > compare, prefer Israeli democracy to the US. a > comment on its proximity, > certainly, but perhaps also on the relatively high > profile that dissent > has in that country...as opposed to ours, where for > all our sound and fury > about free speech, the reign of public shame muffles > the right and the > left. (though mostly the left, Drn!) > > Robert > > -- > Robert Corbett "I will discuss > perfidy with scholars as > rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning > kisses, I will sip > Department of English the marble marrow > of empire. I want sugar > University of Washington but I shall never > wear shame and if you > call that sophistry > then what is Love" > - > Lisa Robertson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:28:43 -0500 Reply-To: dtv@mwt.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Organization: Awkword Ubutronics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit douglas: is it possible to post a poem or two to the list? a search on the net comes up null for poems by him in english.... kiwi wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Although Gellu Naum's death has already been reported to the > Poetics List, I thought members of the list and friends of Green > Integer and Sun & Moon Press would be interested in the short > obituary which appeared in the New York Times this morning > (October 4th). > > Gellu Naum, a leading Surrealist literary figure here (Burcharest), > died on Saturday of a heart attack. He was 86. > During a career as a poet, playwright and translator that lasted > more than 65 years, Mr. Naum published 20 books of poetry, numerous > plays and a novel. > Born in 1915, and the son of a poet, Mr. Naum studied philosophy > in Burcharest and Paris, publishing his first poetry book, The Incendiary > Traveler, in 1936. He was recognized worldwide as a prominent > Surrealist, and his works were translated into English, German, French > and other languages; his Surrealist novel, Zenobia, was published in > 1985. Mr. Naum also translated works by Beckett, René Char, Jacques > Prévert and Kafka into Romanian. > He received numerous international and national awards for his work, > including the 1999 European Prize for Poetry. > > Naum's novel is available from Northwestern University Press. Green Integer, > moreover, published his autobiographal collage and assisted cut-up "pohem" > My Tired Father. In honor of Naum's memory, we are offering My Tired Father > to members of this list for a 20% discount. If you send a check for $7.16 (the orignal > price is $8.95) plus $1.50 for postage (total $8.66) we will be happy to send you > a copy of this wonderful book. Please write checks to Douglas Messerli (not Green > Integer) at 6026 Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles, CAlifornia 90036. Be sure to > include your name and address. > > Douglas Messerli ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:29:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Fwd: Fw: Labor Against War Statement--Sign On/Pass It On MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 20:33:18 -0400 >Reply-To: Society for the Philosophical Study of Marxism Listserve > >Sender: Society for the Philosophical Study of Marxism Listserve > >From: George Snedeker >Subject: Fw: Labor Against War Statement--Sign On/Pass It On >Comments: cc: psn >To: SPSM-LIST@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by=20 >mx6.dc2.adelphia.net id f940XIa15093 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 7:28 PM >Subject: Labor Against War Statement--Sign On/Pass It On > > > >To add your name to the statement below, please e-mail: >letwin@alaa.org. > >To subscribe to the Labor Against War listserv, please e-mail: >, or visit: >. > >Apologies if you have already received the statement below. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Press Advisory >For immediate release: October 3, 2001 >Contact: Michael Letwin 212.343.0708 or Ray Laforest 212.219.0022 > > NYC LABOR GROUP OPPOSES WAR > > WHAT: NYC labor press conference against war. > > TIME: Thursday, October 4, 12 Noon. > > PLACE: Union Square, north side of 14 Street. > > WHO: Labor Against War, an ad hoc coalition in response to the >September 11 tragedy, supported by more than 100 union members (in their >individual capacity) in New York City, including the following eight >union presidents: Larry Adams, National Postal Mail Handlers Union >Local 300; Barbara Bowen, Professional Staff Congress-CUNY/AFT Local >2334; Arthur Cheliotes, Communication Workers of America Local 1180; >Michael Letwin, Association of Legal Aid Attorneys/UAW Local 2325; Jill >Levy, Council of Supervisors and Administrators, NYS Federation of >School Administrators, American Federation of School Administrators >Local 1; Maida Rosenstein, UAW Local 2110; Brenda Stokely, AFSCME Local >215, DC 1707; Jonathan Tasini, National Writers Union/UAW Local 1981. > > PRINCIPLES: > > =E2=80=A2NO WAR. It is wrong to punish any nation or people for the= crimes of >individuals=E2=80=94peace requires global social and economic justice. > > =E2=80=A2JUSTICE, NOT VENGEANCE. An independent international= tribunal to >impartially investigate, apprehend and try those responsible for the >September 11 attack. > > =E2=80=A2OPPOSITION TO RACISM=E2=80=94DEFENSE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES. = Stop terror,=20 > racial >profiling and legal restrictions against people of color and immigrants, >and defend democratic rights. > > =E2=80=A2AID FOR THE NEEDY, NOT THE GREEDY. Government aid for the= victims=E2=80=99 >families and displaced workers=E2=80=94not the wealthy. Rebuild New York= City >with union labor, union pay, and with special concern for new threats to >worker health and safety. > > =E2=80=A2NO LABOR =E2=80=9CAUSTERITY.=E2=80=9D The cost of September= 11 must not be=20 > borne by >working and poor New Yorkers. No surrender of workers=E2=80=99 living >standards, programs or other rights. > >FULL TEXT AND SIGNATURE LIST BELOW > > -30- > > New York City Labor Against War > September 27, 2001 > > September 11 has brought indescribable suffering to New York City=E2= =80=99s >working people. We have lost friends, family members and coworkers of >all colors, nationalities and religions=E2=80=94a thousand of them union >members. An estimated one hundred thousand New Yorkers will lose their >jobs. > > We condemn this crime against humanity and mourn those who perished. >We are proud of the rescuers and the outpouring of labor support for >victims=E2=80=99 families. We want justice for the dead and safety for the >living. > > And we believe that George Bush=E2=80=99s war is not the answer. > > No one should suffer what we experienced on September 11. Yet war= will >inevitably harm countless innocent civilians, strengthen American >alliances with brutal dictatorships and deepen global poverty=E2=80=94just= as >the United States and its allies have already inflicted widespread >suffering on innocent people in such places as Iraq, Sudan, Israel and >the Occupied Territories, the former Yugoslavia and Latin America. > > War will also take a heavy toll on us. For Americans in uniform=E2=80= =94the >overwhelming number of whom are workers and people of color=E2=80=94it will= be >another Vietnam. It will generate further terror in this country >against Arabs, Muslims, South Asians, people of color and immigrants, >and erode our civil liberties. > > It will redirect billions to the military and corporate executives, >while draining such essential domestic programs as education, health >care and the social security trust. In New York City and elsewhere, it >will be a pretext for imposing =E2=80=9Causterity=E2=80=9D on labor and= poor people >under the guise of =E2=80=9Cnational unity.=E2=80=9D > > War will play into the hands of religious fanatics=E2=80=94from Osama= bin Laden >to Jerry Falwell=E2=80=94and provoke further terrorism in major urban= centers >like New York. > > Therefore, the undersigned New York City metro-area trade unionists >believe a just and effective response to September 11 demands: > > **NO WAR. It is wrong to punish any nation or people for the crimes= of >individuals=E2=80=94peace requires global social and economic justice. > > **JUSTICE, NOT VENGEANCE. An independent international tribunal to >impartially investigate, apprehend and try those responsible for the >September 11 attack. > > **OPPOSITION TO RACISM=E2=80=94DEFENSE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES. Stop= terror, racial >profiling and legal restrictions against people of color and immigrants, >and defend democratic rights. > > **AID FOR THE NEEDY, NOT THE GREEDY. Government aid for the= victims=E2=80=99 >families and displaced workers=E2=80=94not the wealthy. Rebuild New York= City >with union labor, union pay, and with special concern for new threats to >worker health and safety. > > **NO LABOR =E2=80=9CAUSTERITY.=E2=80=9D The cost of September 11 must= not be=20 > borne by >working and poor New Yorkers. No surrender of workers=E2=80=99 living >standards, programs or other rights. > >Signers (list in formation) >(All affiliations and titles listed for identification only) > >UNION PRESIDENTS >=E2=80=A2Larry Adams, President, National Postal Mail Handlers Union Local= 300 >=E2=80=A2Barbara Bowen, President, Professional Staff Congress-CUNY/AFT= Local >2334 >=E2=80=A2Arthur Cheliotes, President, CWA Local 1180 >=E2=80=A2Michael Letwin, President, Association of Legal Aid Attorneys/UAW= Local >2325 >=E2=80=A2Jill Levy, President, Council of Supervisors and Administrators,= NYS >Federation of School Administrators, American Federation of School >Administrators Local 1 >=E2=80=A2Maida Rosenstein, President, UAW Local 2110 >=E2=80=A2Brenda Stokely, President, AFSCME Local 215, DC 1707 >=E2=80=A2Jonathan Tasini, President, National Writers Union/UAW Local 1981 > >OTHER UNION MEMBERS >=E2=80=A2Ervand Abrahanian, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Tristin Adie, Shop Steward, CWA Local 1109 >=E2=80=A2Marilyn Albert, RN, SEIU Local 1199 >=E2=80=A2George Albro, Sec=E2=80=99y-Treasurer, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Anthony Arnove, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2Sylvia Aron, Human Services Providers Advisory Committee, NYC= Central >Labor Rehabilitation Council; Past President, AAUP, Adelphi Chapter >=E2=80=A2Stanley Aronowitz, University-Wide Officer & Executive Council, >PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Daniel Ashworth, Delegate, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Harold Bahr III, Chair, GLTGC, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Thomas Barton, Shop Steward, AFSCME Local 768, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Nicholas K. Bedell, Grievance Representative, CWE/UFT >=E2=80=A2Dorothee Benz, Communications Director, CWA Local 1180 >=E2=80=A2Carl Biers, Executive Director, Association for Union Democracy >=E2=80=A2Peter Blum, Acting Vice-President/CAB, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Ian Brand, UNITE! Local 169 >=E2=80=A2Caroline N. Brown, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Robert Bomersbach, Organization of Staff Analysts >=E2=80=A2Bill Bradley, Delegate, SEIU Local 32B-J >=E2=80=A2Renate Bridenthal, Chair, International Committee, PSC-CUNY, AFT= Local >2334 >=E2=80=A2Rachel Burd, labor consultant, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2Chris Butters, AFSCME Local 1070, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Maria J. Chiu, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Kimberly Christensen, UUP >=E2=80=A2Patricia Clough, Queens College Chapter Officer, PSC-CUNY, AFT= Local >2334 >=E2=80=A2Antonia Codling, Chair, ACLA, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Hillel Cohen, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199 >=E2=80=A2Thelma C. Correll, SEIU Local 1199, Retirees Chapter Executive >Committee; Association for Union Democracy Advisory Bd.; PHANYC >=E2=80=A2Jackie DiSalvo, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Claire Crosby, GSEU/UAW Local 2110 >=E2=80=A2Robert E. Dow, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Bryce Dowd, Organizer, SEIU Local 1199 >=E2=80=A2Steve Downs, Executive Board member, TWU Local 100 >=E2=80=A2Phyllis Eckhaus, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2Madeleine M. Egger, CWA Local 1101 >=E2=80=A2Hester Eisenstein, Queens College Chapter, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local= 2334 >=E2=80=A2Hugh English, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Hillary Exter, LSSA/UAW Local 2320 >=E2=80=A2Samuel Farber, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Josh Fraidstern, TWU Local 100 >=E2=80=A2Lew Friedman, UFT >=E2=80=A2Eric Fruman, AFT >=E2=80=A2Nanette Funk, Brooklyn College Chapter, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Pam Galpern, Shop Steward, CWA Local 1101 >=E2=80=A2Gary Goff, Recording Sec=E2=80=99y, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Marty Goodman, Executive Board, TWU Local 100 >=E2=80=A2Winston A. Gordon, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Mark Grashow, former Chapter Chairperson, UFT >=E2=80=A2George Gulifield, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Larry Hanley, City College Delegate, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Bill Henning, Vice-President, CWA Local 1180 >=E2=80=A2Lucy Herschel, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199, Legal Aid Chapter >=E2=80=A2Ed Hilbrich, SSA/SEIU Local 693 >=E2=80=A2Carol Hochberg, Vice-President/JRD, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Norman Hodgett, AFSCME Local 371, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Nina Howes, RN, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199 >=E2=80=A2Carolyn Hughes, UFT >=E2=80=A2Lisa Jessup, Organizer, UAW Local 2110 >=E2=80=A2Melanie Kaye/Kantrowitz, Director, Queens College Worker Education >Extension Center; PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Christine Karatnytsky, Executive Board member, New York Public= Library >Guild, AFSCME Local 1930; Editor, Local >1930 Update >=E2=80=A2David Kazanjian, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Dian Killian, Organizer, Journalism Division, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2Terry Klug, Sec=E2=80=99y-Treasurer, TWU Local 241 >=E2=80=A2Lisa Maya Knauer, GSOC/UAW Local 2110 >=E2=80=A2Daniella Korotzer, Alternate Vice-President/CDD-Brooklyn, Health & >Safety Representative, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Kitty Krupat, Bargaining Team, GSOC/UAW Local 2110 >=E2=80=A2Ray Laforest, Staff Representative, DC 1707, AFSCME >=E2=80=A2Jane Latour, Director, Women=E2=80=99s Project, Association for= Union >Democracy; Managing Ed., Hardhat Magazine; NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2Tatiana Lemon, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199, Legal Aid Chapter >=E2=80=A2Robert Lesko, Vice-President, AFT Local 3882 >=E2=80=A2Eileen A. McCann, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Patrick McCreery, GSOC/UAW Local 2110 >=E2=80=A2Julius Margolin, IATSE Local 52 >=E2=80=A2Barton Meyers, Chair, Grievance Policy Committee, PSC-CUNY, AFT= Local >2334 >=E2=80=A2Aaron Micheau, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Charles Molesworth, Acting Chair, Queens College Chapter,= PSC-CUNY, AFT >Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Kim Moody, NWU/UAW Local 1981; Labor Notes Policy Committee >=E2=80=A2Florence Morgan, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Susan Olivia Morris, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Amy Muldoon, CWA Local 1106 >=E2=80=A2Ken Nash, Building Bridges: Your Community and Labor Report in= Exile >=E2=80=A2Marcia Newfield, BMCC Chapter Officer, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Daniel Nichols, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Matt Noyes, Education Coordinator, Association for Union= Democracy; >NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2Tony O=E2=80=99Brien, Delegate, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Susan O=E2=80=99Malley, Executive Council, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local= 2334 >=E2=80=A2Charlene Mitchell, Assistant to the President, AFSCME Local 371,= DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Chuck Mohan, President, Guyanese-American Workers United; Staff >Representative, AFSCME DC 1707 >=E2=80=A2Dennis O=E2=80=99Neil, Legislative Director, NY Metro Area Postal= Union (APWU) >=E2=80=A2Richard L. Oeser, IATSE Local 52; Cornell Labor Studies; National= Labor >College >=E2=80=A2Greg Pason, NJ Steering Committee, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2J.P. Patafio, New Directions Caucus & Executive Board member, TWU= Local >100 >=E2=80=A2Paul Peloquin, Delegate, LSSA/UAW 2320 >=E2=80=A2Andy Piascik, Program Coordinator, Association for Union= Democracy; >NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2John Pietaro, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199, Health Systems Division >=E2=80=A2Pride at Work, NY >=E2=80=A2Jim Provost, LSSA/UAW 2320 >=E2=80=A2Mike Quinn, High School Delegate, UFT >=E2=80=A2Peter Ranis, Executive Council, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Shirley Rausher, BMCC Delegate, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Dominic Renda, CWA Local 1105 >=E2=80=A2Sally Ridgeway, AAUP, Adelphi Chapter >=E2=80=A2Cicely Rodway, Queens College Chapter Officer, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local= 2334 >=E2=80=A2Andrew Rowe, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Jay Schaffner, Supervisor, National Contracts Dept., AFM Local 802 >=E2=80=A2Jose Schiffino, Organizer, UNITE! Local 169 >=E2=80=A2Soo Kyung Nam, UAW Local 2320 >=E2=80=A2Adolph Reed, Jr. NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2Nancy Romer, Executive Council, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Trudy Rudnick, Organizer, AFT Local 3882 >=E2=80=A2Wendy Scribner, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Hasan Shafiqullah, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Tim Schermerhorn, Vice President, RTO, TWU Local 100 >=E2=80=A2Joyce Soso, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Ann Sparanese, Shop Steward, RWDSU Local 29 >=E2=80=A2Claudette R. Spencer, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Gibb Surette, Delegate, LSSA/UAW 2320 >=E2=80=A2Sean Sweeney, Director, Cornell Labor Studies >=E2=80=A2Kyle Talbert, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >=E2=80=A2Terry Taylor, IBEW Local 827, Black Telephone Workers For Justice >=E2=80=A2Steve Terry, Alternate Delegate, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Miriam Thompson, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Azalia Torres, Alternate Vice-President/CDD-Brooklyn, ALAA/UAW= Local >2325 >=E2=80=A2Mark Ungar, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >=E2=80=A2Lise Vogel, AAUP/CBC >=E2=80=A2Marilyn Vogt-Downey, UFT >=E2=80=A2Kit Wainer, UFT >=E2=80=A2Michael Ware, Shop Steward, CWA Local 1109 >=E2=80=A2Ron Washington, IBEW Local 827, Black Telephone Workers For= Justice >=E2=80=A2Edlyn Willer, Delegate, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Corinne Willinger, PEF >=E2=80=A2JoAnn Wypijewski, TNGNY/CWA >=E2=80=A2Ethan Young, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >=E2=80=A2Milton Zelermyer, Delegate, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >=E2=80=A2Robert Zuss, Vice-President/CDD-Brooklyn, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:11:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Garrett Kalleberg Subject: Thousands / Laird Hunt - new Immanent Audio CD Comments: To: Poetics List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thousands / Laird Hunt A new CD from Immanent Audio, released September, 2001. Two Half-Dreams 1. A pale hand lurking in a forest of pencils. Every now and then it tears up a pencil and scribbles something on the ground. 2. The Tower of Babel has been only partially destroyed. Half of infinity is infinity. I am standing on one of its cracked pillars peering down. - Laird Hunt, from Thousands Recorded in New York, NY and Brooklyn, NY from 1999-2001, Laird Hunt reads from his Thousands and The Paris Stories. Sample tracks (in mp3 format) can be heard at http://www.morningred.com/immanentaudio. The Thousands CD is available for $10.00 direct from Immanent Audio - send a check written out to: Garrett Kalleberg 80 Skillman Ave., 2nd fl Brooklyn, NY, 11211 -- Garrett Kalleberg mailto:tf@morningred.com The Transcendental Friend can be found at: http://www.morningred.com/friend Immanent Audio Online at: http://www.morningred.com/immanentaudio ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:51:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: Welcome, Miguel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit lost roads co-published a collection by the mexican poet gerardo deniz this past year...duration has also brought out chapbooks by coral bracho & pura lopez-colome (both from mexico)...another is forthcoming by soledad fariña (from cuba)... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aldon Nielsen" To: Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:29 AM Subject: Welcome, Miguel > >Miguel -- Abrazos -- welcome to the Poetics List -- One frustration that > >many of us in the USA face is the difficulty of learning of new poets in > >Mexico (or anywhere in the Spanish-speaking world for that matter) -- I > >used to get tips from my friend Alicia Partnoy back when she worked at > >Hispania Books in Washington, D.C. -- But now I'm here in Pennsylvania, > >where it's hard enough to hear of poets in English -- It would be a great > >help to all of us if you'd be willing, from time to time, to point us in > >the direction of publications where we can read new writers in Mexico -- > >City Lights Books did a nice anthology of Mexican writers some years ago, > >but I haven't seen anything to match it since ---- > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > " chaos > is not our condition." > --Charles Olson > > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:12:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: What is to be done In-Reply-To: <004901c14c77$3b116720$5c8456cf@jjstick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I suspect that the more rational faction within the Bush administration has prevailed, if it has prevailed, in part because there has been so much adverse comment, some of it in the form of peace rallies, on the bloodthirstiness of Bush's first comments. But if not, even if it's all unnecessary effort, don't you think it's better to try to avert horrific bloodshed than to protest against it after the fact? Mark At 09:52 PM 10/3/2001 -0400, you wrote: >http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/webfeatures/2001/10/mooney-c-10-02.h tml > >From The American Prospective > >Preemptive Peace >Chris Mooney > > >The Idea Log is a new column by Chris Mooney. It will appear on TAP Online every Tuesday. > >After attending last Saturday's 7,500 person peace march in downtown Washington, D.C., sponsored by "International A.N.S.W.E.R." (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism), I was left with a rather odd conclusion: The protesters hadn't watched enough CNN. I mean, I'm sure they were glued to the news on September 11th like all the rest of us, watching the trade towers collapse again and again, and hearing some U.S. foreign policy luminaries, like Lawrence Eagleburger, call for sweeping retribution. But after September 12th or 13th, the demonstrators, many of them students, appear to have switched off. One of the countless protest signs I saw -- and one of the few sarcastic ones -- read "Rush In, Think Later." This is precisely what the Bush administration has not done, though it's hard to say the same of certain peaceniks. > >Such is the paradox of a preemptive peace march, a protest that critiques the logic of revenge before retributive action has even been attempted. Sure, there are situations where one should protest something before it happens -- but the thing being protested should at least be a likely outcome. That's not true in this case. Whatever military response the Bush administration and its allies may be planning, we are certainly not talking about any Vietnam-style napalming of innocents. Indeed, the United States is already providing aid to Afghan refugees. Yet because today's peace movement has taken to the streets so prematurely, it is forced to rely on dubious presumptions about the American psyche and how it will respond, murderously, to future events. > >Granted, from a peacenik perspective, it's indisputable that shortly after the World Trade Center attacks, quite a lot of Americans were sounding alarmingly bloodthirsty. One of the most disturbing, but least criticized, screeds came from Time magazine's Lance Morrow, who wrote, in a column titled "The Case for Rage and Retribution," that we ought to "explore the rich reciprocal possibilities of the fatwa." > >But no one, not Morrow or any other commentator who embarrassed himself with unchecked rage, was operating with a full deck that awful week. After all, much of America wasn't even sleeping at night. Since then, however, it has clearly dawned on the Bush administration that the goal of defeating international terrorism cannot possibly be furthered by bombing the hell out of starving Afghans. This realization could be observed in the careful tones of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld Sunday morning on Meet the Press: > > > MR. RUSSERT: The president said that Osama bin Laden is wanted dead or alive. Do we have a preference? > SEC'Y RUMSFELD: Well, you know, I don't think about this so much as retaliation or retribution or even justice. I think about it as -- I think back to real wars, the goal is victory. The goal is to be able to have dealt with the problems that exist--in this case, the terrorist networks and the countries that harbor them--in a way that we have won; that in fact they are no longer free to go out and terrorize the world. >It's worth contrasting Rumsfeld's caution with the International Answer protesters' repeated, hyperbolic denunciations of this nation's new "racist war." Put aside the fact that there is no military action yet to protest, and little reason to suppose that knee-jerk cries for revenge will drive U.S. policy. The notion that U.S. military action, when it comes, will be somehow "racist" is absurd. The protesters seem to have conflated isolated instances of hate crimes against Arab and Muslim Americans with the Bush administration's "war on terrorism" -- this despite the fact that Bush has repeatedly denounced such violence and emphasized that we should not think of our current conflict as one between Islam and "the West." > >But then, we shouldn't expect much charity toward the president from protesters capable of airing slogans like "The Real Terrorist Works in the White House." I consider George W. Bush a dim bulb, even an impostor -- and certainly oppose many aspects of his foreign policy -- but calling him a terrorist is a truly vile form of moral equivalency. Yet it frequently fit the tone of the protests, where I watched some organizers label those who disagreed with them undercover government agents, and one 21-year-old told me, in his pacifism, that we shouldn't have fought Hitler. > >Devout word watchers may have noted that journalists and others have taken to using "enormity" to describe the events of September 11th, as though it were the only word in the language capable of conveying the true, unique horror of that day. By contrast, to the peace protesters, everything is now a form of "terrorism," from U.S. sanctions on Iraq to the layoffs of workers ("economic terrorism"). Almost the only thing the protesters didn't widely denounce, amid a plethora of IMF/World Bank grievances, was radical Muslim fundamentalism. Indeed, it seemed as though the only time Osama bin Laden came up at all was when protesters were observing that the CIA helped train him. So it's no surprise that politically, at least, they shared some of his explicit objectives: "It's U.S. Troop Proximity to Mecca & Medina, Stupid!" "U.S. Out of the Middle East!" > >But I still keep coming back to that sign, "Rush In, Think Later." I think about its holder, and try to imagine what was running through his or her mind. (I should have just asked, but it didn't occur to me at the moment.) Protests themselves may take weeks to organize, but protest signs take just minutes to draw up. There must have been something instinctive and deep-seated behind that slogan, for its creator to be able to twist reality so starkly, rushing in to protest U.S. haste long after our government showed caution. Dare one suggest -- without cramming stars and stripes down anyone's throat -- that it is the blindly held creed of anti-Americanism? > >Chris Mooney > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:29:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Welcome, Miguel In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20011004112547.00a64a20@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Copper Canyon is about to issue a bilingual anthology of contemporary Mexican poetry. My own Junction Press is working on two bilingual anthologies: _Al otro lado/ Across the Line: The Poetry of Baja California_, edited by Harry Polkinhorn y yo, should be available in February. It seems to be heading for 416 pages. _The Revolution in Cuban Poetry: 1944 to the Present_, edited by Alina Camacho-Gingerich y yo tambien, will be over 600 pages. Expect it in early 2003. I'm also translating a bilingual selected Jos=E9 Kozer (great, internationally recognized, Cuban exile poet), due from Junction somewhere in between the two anthologies. Junction published a bilingual selection of Argentine poet Luisa Futoransky, _The Duration of the Voyage/La duraci=F3n del viaje_, edited and translated by Jason Weiss, in 1997. It's been adopted for a lot of classroom use, but I'm afraid it's not being read by many anglophone poets. Cover price is $11.00, plus $2.00 shipping (in US). Lop off 20% for list members. Mark Weiss At 11:29 AM 10/4/2001 -0400, you wrote: >>Miguel -- Abrazos -- welcome to the Poetics List -- One frustration that >>many of us in the USA face is the difficulty of learning of new poets in >>Mexico (or anywhere in the Spanish-speaking world for that matter) -- I >>used to get tips from my friend Alicia Partnoy back when she worked at >>Hispania Books in Washington, D.C. -- But now I'm here in Pennsylvania, >>where it's hard enough to hear of poets in English -- It would be a great >>help to all of us if you'd be willing, from time to time, to point us in >>the direction of publications where we can read new writers in Mexico -- >>City Lights Books did a nice anthology of Mexican writers some years ago, >>but I haven't seen anything to match it since ---- > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > " chaos > is not our condition." > --Charles Olson > > >Aldon Lynn Nielsen >George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature >Department of English >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:10:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Notes + Statement by Fredric Jameson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, I didn't think I was making any comment on the " 'more of the same' versus 'qualitative change' " debate--only forwarding a review of Empire. You may have taken the reviewer's excerpted comments as mine? Oddly, Marjorie Perloff's hermeneutics may coincide with those of everyone's favourite Eugene, Oregon anarchist John Zerzan, on the question of interpreting "the event" as an attack on civilization as such. (Selections from Zerzan's writing, which may not be familiar to left/ultraleft writers here, are available at: http://www.spunk.org/library/writers/zerzan and http://recollectionbooks.com/siml/library/JohnZerzan/zercon.html). But why haven't we heard more from Taylor Brady this last week? I hope he hasn't vacated in disgust at the unexpected enactments of jingoism presented to us on this list. I'm waiting to read more anaylsis from him. Well, back to my Inman & Poulantzas. Aaron Vidaver Vancouver Here's a statement from Jameson, also from the London Review of Books. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n19/mult2319.htm#jameson Fredric Jameson North Carolina I have been reluctant to comment on the recent 'events' because the event in question, as history, is incomplete and one can even say that it has not yet fully happened. Obviously there are immediate comments one can make, in particular on the nauseating media reception, whose cheap pathos seemed unconsciously dictated by a White House intent on smothering the situation in sentiment in order to demonstrate the undemonstrable: namely, that 'Americans are united as never before since Pearl Harbor.' I suppose this means that they are united by the fear of saying anything that contradicts this completely spurious media consensus. Historical events, however, are not punctual, but extend in a before and after of time which only gradually reveal themselves. It has, to be sure, been pointed out that the Americans created bin Laden during the Cold War (and in particular during the Soviet war in Afghanistan), and that this is therefore a textbook example of dialectical reversal. But the seeds of the event are buried deeper than that. They are to be found in the wholesale massacres of the Left systematically encouraged and directed by the Americans in an even earlier period. The physical extermination of the Iraqi and the Indonesian Communist Parties, although now historically repressed and forgotten, were crimes as abominable as any contemporary genocide. It is, however, only now that the results are working their way out into actuality, for the resultant absence of any Left alternative means that popular revolt and resistance in the Third World have nowhere to go but into religious and 'fundamentalist' forms. As for the future, no one (presumably including our own Government) has any idea what the promised and threatened 'war on terrorism' might look like. But until we know that, we can have no satisfactory picture of the 'events' we imagine to have taken place on a single day in September. Despite this uncertainty, however, it is permitted to feel that the future holds nothing good for either side. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:31:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Golumbia Subject: Re: the language school gene In-Reply-To: from "Aldon Nielsen" at Oct 04, 2001 12:50:58 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, Pinker thinks his book already *is* the "hard" support. > > The last paragraph of this morning's NY TIMES article on the possible > discovery of a "language" or language-centered gene quotes a skeptic who > remarks that the discovery supplies "soft support, though not hard support" > for Noam Chomsky's thesis on the innateness of language. > > Does anybody else out there sense a new anthology war bubbling up through > that binary???? > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > " chaos > is not our condition." > --Charles Olson > > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > -- dgolumbi@panix.com David Golumbia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:59:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: let's see... [HETERONYMS/NOMS-DE-GUERRES] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe, I'm glad to hear that our American amnesia reflex isn't affecting every citizen. Yes, there actually was a September 10th, and a 9th, and an 8th, and --- although myself a Manhattanite as deeply disoriented by trauma and mourning as any of us who have been left physically unscathed, comparatively insulated by living on The Palisades, --- I too believe that this summer's List heteronym meltdown is important enough (tactically identical to "terrorist" theft of names of the dead, noms-de-guerre) for the subject not to be dropped too easily, despite the eclipsing. Maybe ~more~ important now to be looked at. It is, in its own way, a literary-historical extension of the post-Language/Language rejection of the subject-position. Can heteronyms cry better than their authors? Strangely, some of the parties most strongly denouncing the latest presumed heteronym stink bomb were, in August, intimately involved in sustaining and ~commissioning~ identity theft. Apparently, the end-of-August/beginning-of-September line that marked the boiling-over point of the heteronym expose' here coincides with the return to campus of a largely .edu-populated List, and many signed back in simply oblivious/indifferent to how hot summer got. (There's a definite List member tendency to enter ~in media res,~ too, simply checking back in, seeing what's being discussed right at the surface that day, that week, without looking further into what might have been larger dilemmas or the real, ongoing field of action. Das ungluckliche Kind der Augenblicke [sp.?].) I really feel that some public forum on the heteronym "crisis" is called for. The List may not be adequate, with its many threads, and comings and goings (~and~ its heteronym subversion, so that you can't tell who you're talking to half the time).. I'm sorry I'm not being an editor right now. It's reached the proportions that demand some sort of colloquium or "special issue" devoted to the question. Meanwhile, I personally am ~of mixed feelings.~ What seemed wrong to me this summer was the identity theft (with its near-criminality), the character assasination, the homophobia, the hate literature and, perhaps, the tombstone vandalization that was being carried out under heteronyms (and allonyms: Ruthven). On the other hand, in pure theory, it strikes me as one of the most ingenious, liberatory language games I've encountered since Clark Coolidge's return to a Gertrude Stein English and the asyntactical Language that grew out of that. There are many conflicts that I experience in regard to my public roles, and they could more conveniently be handled by simply assigning different noms-de-plume to each foot I maintain in opposing camps. What I do not understand (and what I would encourage heteronymists to "purge" their movement of) is the ugliness and bad spirit that emerges once the mask of a fake name is in place. A sort of Freddy Kruger hockey mask Halloween effect. The reasons for the gushing biliousness that's almost a giveaway of heteronyms seems complex, and deeply psychoanalytical. In essence, I see it as just the individual practitioners' "unresolved material"; in general, it's been marked by certain distinct psychologisms: scatologies of infantile anality, homosexual panic, etc. Personally, the kind of heteronyms I find myself daydreaming are granola- and brown rice-eating, vegan, Birkenstock, Naropa sensitives. Note, too (with underlining, please): from those whose double/multiple identities I've been able to trace down, it also seems to remain an exclusively ~male~ game (and heterosexual male). There must be important feminist, gender reasons (that Marcella or Elizabeth or others could delineate better than I) for that: women are already under their own name = property politics with married names, etc.; if women are indeed more rooted in the body (cyclic hormonal) and the sobering, reality-heavy chain of mother-daughter-granddaughter than men are, heteronym pranks would seem too illusory in their escapism. (Please don't get on my case, girls, over my tongue-tiedness on feminist themes. I mean well. You just can't expect too raised a consciousness from even us men [pr--ks] of good intentions.) And then I think about how much of it is e-mail/web-centered,--- and the initial materialist determinant seems close at hand: passwords! The technology's very password system itself fosters a make-believe name mentality. The List stats of 900 members is surely a figure swollen with fake name sign-ons. Different avowed heteronymists will espouse completely different motives for the same tactic: some political, some philosophical . . . Poetry, especially our micro-poetic world here, seems a very poor place from which to launch a fantasized heteronym revolution. Avant-garde poetry ~does not~ have sufficient or efficient enough effect on the world at large for the 'nym scandals to have much outward consequences. (In my identity as an ~astrologer,~ on the other hand, it took only the slightest public presence before I was hearing out of nowhere from the BBC to do televised horoscope spots on Sandra Bernhard, Quentin Crisp.) There are many sides to this issue. When my left hand was injured in early May, and I found myself totally confined within the boundaries of being wounded --- a sense of ~inescapability~ set in about the limitations of my finite identity, and that "imprisonment" within reality is very antithetical to the imaginary scissiparity of assuming pen names. Hey, The Star-Spangled Banner was written ~during~ Key's imprisonment (aboard ship)! It may be at the ~heart~ of patriotism to understand or take upon oneself the mystique of incarceration--- then from there, from that single room locked cell, to speak of "Freedom!" and "Liberty!" I don't consider heteronymism "poetic terrorism." It may be "poetic ~paranoia-ism.~ The negative reaction that it can provoke is a psychological-ontological uncertainty about the ~very existence~ of other people you had presumed to be "real." (Very odd grammars result: So-&-So is not a real person. Viz-a-viz.: "So-&-So is not a real man.") (For the presumed author of the Yasusada poems to say "I am not Yasusada" is, paradoxically, the completely true antithesis of Flaubert's false statement, "I am Madame Bovary.) Is there ~no~ overlap between the heteronym movement and the other known scams, such as the Nigerian scam [viz. Brian Wizard]? I'm sorry I'm being so inarticulate. I had a beef barley soup and a roast beef on rye for lunch, and I'm feeling sleepy from it. Jeffrey --- Joe Amato wrote: > mr. brink: > > i tried in an earlier post, perhaps unsuccessfully, > to alert the list > community to the presence of those who, operating > under pseudonym > (not a problem in itself), would seek to subvert any > attempt here at > building community (the c-word, yes, but hold on, > i'm not through > yet)... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:22:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Arundhati Roy on the coming war - "The Algebra of Infinite J ustice" In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Wystan wrote: > Now, I wonder how long > this level of engagement will continue and what it will be like when it > eases off, when it will tell me nothing new, or nothing that interests me, > and begin to annoy and distress. I am prompted > to wonder this after reading the forwarded article below. I agree that the Arudhata Roy article was annoying. It covered all the same anti-US territory, though at great length and with a novelist's flair (and imagination!) So I'm sensitive to not wanting to beat a dead whatever, but... In light of Lawrence Upton's proposed "solution" of dumping food and money into the laps of Afghan peasants, I thought the following was an interesting tidbit from today's news. (Surely one of my more worldly-wise colleagues will explain the arrogant nationalism behind this move.) + + + + + + + President Bush announced $320 million in aid to alleviate a burgeoning refugee problem in Afghanistan. "This is our way of saying that while we strongly and firmly oppose the Taliban regime we are friends with the Afghan people," Bush said Pentagon officials said the military was drawing up plans to parachute emergency food rations to thousands of displaced people in the landlocked central Asian country. [more at http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011004/ts/attack_dc_297.html] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:01:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: wind bag In-Reply-To: <20011004180826.80648.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii gas mask gasm ask or gas mask orgasm ask __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:35:20 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: What is to be done/What's already been done In-Reply-To: <004901c14c77$3b116720$5c8456cf@jjstick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Special Forces allegedly began hostile operations (engaging enemy fire and returning fire) within Afghanistan on the evening of 11 September on the outskirts of Kabul. They are allegedly using 5-6 man ground teams (Rangers) from the 82nd delivered by Black Hawk choppers (called "Night Stalkers") from the 160th with a 2 man flight crew. Quick, decisive, lightweight, and easy to "clean up after" in case anything goes awry, we will likely hear little or nothing of their doings. It was a surprise enough that Rumsfeld even intimated that the US Gov't has already run special ops missions in Afghanistan since the 911. To say the US has not used force in Afghanistan to date is likely incorrect. To say the US has dropped in forces is just not an "accepted" or "favored" or "official" truth. One important feature of this branch of the US Military, formed in response to a perceived need in the aftermath of the Vietnam War for secrecy in military ops, is to keep things quiet. Special Ops (sometimes called "Black Ops" or "Special Forces") is stationed right here in Fort Bragg, NC. Its central command, JSOC (Joint Special Operations Command), is located at Pope AFB right next door to Bragg. Special Forces invariably receive the full cooperation of the "free" US media in maintaining the secrecy of their operations. "It is for America's own good" is the unofficial motto. They are especially good at preventing and removing any and all threats of publicity in all of their actions on foreign soils. Special Forces nowadays usually comprises about 70-90% of all US Military operations and engagements abroad and probably command that much of its budget as well. They are simply the best at what they do, at making things happen and staying out of the media's eye. Hell they even have body laundering systems, in case a US Soldier's life is lost in an operation that is maintaining cover. Usually the family of the deceased finds out that their son or daughter died in a plane crash during exercises in a different location (re: no remains). Frankly, Special Ops soldiers make Ninjas and Hitler's Stormtroopers look like a bunch of flat-headed whimps. You do not want to be in a room with a pissed off Special Ops Ranger or SEAL, that's for damn sure. They're also trained to use their brains, make decisions independently, negotiate their way through many situations, and have extensive language training in many cases. Patrick (Hello CARNIVORE! Hi ECHELON!) > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of John Stickney > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 9:52 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: What is to be done > > > http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/webfeatures/2001/10/mooney- > c-10-02.html > > >From The American Prospective > > Preemptive Peace > Chris Mooney > > > The Idea Log is a new column by Chris Mooney. It will appear on > TAP Online every Tuesday. > > After attending last Saturday's 7,500 person peace march in > downtown Washington, D.C., sponsored by "International > A.N.S.W.E.R." (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism), I was left with > a rather odd conclusion: The protesters hadn't watched enough > CNN. I mean, I'm sure they were glued to the news on September > 11th like all the rest of us, watching the trade towers collapse > again and again, and hearing some U.S. foreign policy luminaries, > like Lawrence Eagleburger, call for sweeping retribution. But > after September 12th or 13th, the demonstrators, many of them > students, appear to have switched off. One of the countless > protest signs I saw -- and one of the few sarcastic ones -- read > "Rush In, Think Later." This is precisely what the Bush > administration has not done, though it's hard to say the same of > certain peaceniks. > > Such is the paradox of a preemptive peace march, a protest that > critiques the logic of revenge before retributive action has even > been attempted. Sure, there are situations where one should > protest something before it happens -- but the thing being > protested should at least be a likely outcome. That's not true in > this case. Whatever military response the Bush administration and > its allies may be planning, we are certainly not talking about > any Vietnam-style napalming of innocents. Indeed, the United > States is already providing aid to Afghan refugees. Yet because > today's peace movement has taken to the streets so prematurely, > it is forced to rely on dubious presumptions about the American > psyche and how it will respond, murderously, to future events. > > Granted, from a peacenik perspective, it's indisputable that > shortly after the World Trade Center attacks, quite a lot of > Americans were sounding alarmingly bloodthirsty. One of the most > disturbing, but least criticized, screeds came from Time > magazine's Lance Morrow, who wrote, in a column titled "The Case > for Rage and Retribution," that we ought to "explore the rich > reciprocal possibilities of the fatwa." > > But no one, not Morrow or any other commentator who embarrassed > himself with unchecked rage, was operating with a full deck that > awful week. After all, much of America wasn't even sleeping at > night. Since then, however, it has clearly dawned on the Bush > administration that the goal of defeating international terrorism > cannot possibly be furthered by bombing the hell out of starving > Afghans. This realization could be observed in the careful tones > of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld Sunday morning on Meet the Press: > > > MR. RUSSERT: The president said that Osama bin Laden is wanted > dead or alive. Do we have a preference? > SEC'Y RUMSFELD: Well, you know, I don't think about this so > much as retaliation or retribution or even justice. I think about > it as -- I think back to real wars, the goal is victory. The goal > is to be able to have dealt with the problems that exist--in this > case, the terrorist networks and the countries that harbor > them--in a way that we have won; that in fact they are no longer > free to go out and terrorize the world. > It's worth contrasting Rumsfeld's caution with the International > Answer protesters' repeated, hyperbolic denunciations of this > nation's new "racist war." Put aside the fact that there is no > military action yet to protest, and little reason to suppose that > knee-jerk cries for revenge will drive U.S. policy. The notion > that U.S. military action, when it comes, will be somehow > "racist" is absurd. The protesters seem to have conflated > isolated instances of hate crimes against Arab and Muslim > Americans with the Bush administration's "war on terrorism" -- > this despite the fact that Bush has repeatedly denounced such > violence and emphasized that we should not think of our current > conflict as one between Islam and "the West." > > But then, we shouldn't expect much charity toward the president > from protesters capable of airing slogans like "The Real > Terrorist Works in the White House." I consider George W. Bush a > dim bulb, even an impostor -- and certainly oppose many aspects > of his foreign policy -- but calling him a terrorist is a truly > vile form of moral equivalency. Yet it frequently fit the tone of > the protests, where I watched some organizers label those who > disagreed with them undercover government agents, and one > 21-year-old told me, in his pacifism, that we shouldn't have > fought Hitler. > > Devout word watchers may have noted that journalists and others > have taken to using "enormity" to describe the events of > September 11th, as though it were the only word in the language > capable of conveying the true, unique horror of that day. By > contrast, to the peace protesters, everything is now a form of > "terrorism," from U.S. sanctions on Iraq to the layoffs of > workers ("economic terrorism"). Almost the only thing the > protesters didn't widely denounce, amid a plethora of IMF/World > Bank grievances, was radical Muslim fundamentalism. Indeed, it > seemed as though the only time Osama bin Laden came up at all was > when protesters were observing that the CIA helped train him. So > it's no surprise that politically, at least, they shared some of > his explicit objectives: "It's U.S. Troop Proximity to Mecca & > Medina, Stupid!" "U.S. Out of the Middle East!" > > But I still keep coming back to that sign, "Rush In, Think > Later." I think about its holder, and try to imagine what was > running through his or her mind. (I should have just asked, but > it didn't occur to me at the moment.) Protests themselves may > take weeks to organize, but protest signs take just minutes to > draw up. There must have been something instinctive and > deep-seated behind that slogan, for its creator to be able to > twist reality so starkly, rushing in to protest U.S. haste long > after our government showed caution. Dare one suggest -- without > cramming stars and stripes down anyone's throat -- that it is the > blindly held creed of anti-Americanism? > > Chris Mooney > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:28:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I'm going to try to muster the patience to address the points of this paranoid rant individually -- the only thing it doesn't do is come right out and bitch about the Zionist Occupation Government (aka the US Government), but there's one I'll just knee-jerk on out of here in a hurry: >>14) President Bush sent his anti-terrorism bill to Congress one week after the WTC/Pentagon attack, launching an emotional debate that will force U.S. politicians to choose between continued freedom for Americans or greater security. (Lycos Network 9-20-01) DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO WRITE ONE OF THESE BILLS? IT TAKES MONTHS! They are hundreds of pages long. THIS ONE WAS OBVIOUSLY WRITTEN BEFORE THE ATTACK! How convenient! Wake up America! (DEBKA Intelligence Files 9-22-01) >> I know how long it takes to write one of these bills, because I personally have written three or four. Writing legislation is practically Washington DC's favorite indoor sport, since every time a lobbyist takes an idea to the Hill, he or she is likely also to take along a draft bill. In addition, both the House and Senate have Offices of Legislative Counsel, non-partisan staffs of lawyers whose whole job it is to draft or edit legislation so that it means what the Senator or Congressman wants it to mean. The White House may have an equivalent specialized staff; I don't know, but it certainly does have a bill-drafting capability. In a crunch, a bill can be written or rewritten overnight. It does not take months; they are not hundreds of pages long. Only the budget bills are hundreds of pages long, but they are the most familiar to the public since everyone running for election seems to like to get his picture taken with the volumes and volumes of them. LF ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:55:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz wrote: < Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arielle. They stole that idea from Radio Hauraki which was New Zealand's first commecail or non Govt radio station. They broadcast off-shore from Tiri Island and started to play some quite good music. Anyway it was good and broke the mould of fusty old Government Radio. They were termed the "Pirate Radio Station". They are quite good: if commercial radio stations were a little less moronic I'd be very pleased but most commercial broadcasting (and broadcasting in general) has declined in quality over here...but at least we have a lot of freedom here (I know that there are injustices and problems by and large - on the Big Balance Sheet I would go for US and Western democracy (given someone put the "mock" in I) as the best of a bad bunch for now). But that radio station in Israel was a good example...trouble is this word "feedom" it gets bandied around....truth..as Auden wrote: "All I have is voice (pen?) to undo the folded lie." The Right Wing over there wouldnt like to hear anything about peace....to be fair Israel (as far as I know) is not totally united in its foreign policies and not all Jewish people are Zionists. Are all Palestinians in anti-Israel? Are some quite unconcerned and live elsewhere and get on with their life? Does anyone know of Jews who either are nuetral to or are opposed to Israel or dissent and so on? After all one can be a Christian and be opposed to the Crusades (which cynics might say are still ongoing). The trouble is that there's always the suspicion that Yeat's "The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity." means that the heart fed on fantasy (and reality of a kind) means some people "see red".....the whole things boils over: truth dies valiantly, and Ed Dorn or his ilk croak dark mockingly over the the unspirited plains...Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Greenberg" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:08 AM Subject: Re: Israel > While yes, I would agree that some amount of dissent > is allowed in Israel, I wanted to offer this one > anecdote: when I lived there in 1987, I listened to a > radio station which broadcast in English as "the Voice > of Peace" and always said they were broadcasting "from > somewhere in the Mediterranean." It was a kind of > pirate radio station that was leftist and played > hippie music and had arts programming, and was the > alternative to the state-run radio station which had > solider DJs. They had to broadcast from a boat that > kept moving because the Israeli gov't was always > trying to shut them down. I believe it doesn't exist > at all anymore. Where is "the Voice of Peace" when > you need it?! > > Arielle > > --- Robert Corbett wrote: > > btw, the talk of Israeli as a "democracy" always is > > bothersome to me, > > since they still use laws on the books from the > > Ottoman Empire to claim > > settlements in Palestine. and when I say still, I > > mean to this day. I am > > sure there is legal mumbo jumbo that authorizes > > this, but this is either > > inexcusable, or it suggests that "Empire" is a > > better way of > > understanding the way the world works--literally. > > democracy is always > > "democracy for whom?". > > > > that said, apparently people in the West Bank and > > Gaza, when asked to > > compare, prefer Israeli democracy to the US. a > > comment on its proximity, > > certainly, but perhaps also on the relatively high > > profile that dissent > > has in that country...as opposed to ours, where for > > all our sound and fury > > about free speech, the reign of public shame muffles > > the right and the > > left. (though mostly the left, Drn!) > > > > Robert > > > > -- > > Robert Corbett "I will discuss > > perfidy with scholars as > > rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning > > kisses, I will sip > > Department of English the marble marrow > > of empire. I want sugar > > University of Washington but I shall never > > wear shame and if you > > call that sophistry > > then what is Love" > > - > > Lisa Robertson > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:23:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" bromwitch thy typing is to me, like the nice, even yarks of bore that on the grape-stained shore doth lap and lap for more. At 11:22 PM -0700 10/2/01, George Bowering wrote: >>David!!!! >> >>So glad to see your signature here among us again -- I'm out here in the >>wilds of Pennsylvania, trying to get to the heart of the matter -- send >>poetry, quick! >> >> >>At 03:38 PM 10/2/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>>Isnt "massacre" the word for it? D >> >> > >Bromige should not be wasting his time writing e-mail; he is the poet >laureate of Sonoma County, and they are fast approaching grape >harvest. He has a lot of poems to write about the vintage. Dont >pester him to communicate lesser stuff. >-- >George Bowering >Freelance reader >Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:39:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: Announcing Issue #5 of -VERT Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Get the new Fall colors at -VeRT MAGAZINE http://www.litvert.com FEATURING : Hoaxes and Heteronymity: An Interview with Kent Johnson, conducted by William Freind _The Art of M[ez]ang.elle.ing: Constructing Polysemic & Neology Fic/Factions Online_ *//alan sondheim//* Poetics in Internet Text WITH POETRY FROM : Joanna Sondheim * Kevin Fitzgerald * David Hadbawnik * billy little * Jason Lynn * Pawel Grajnert * Andrew Goldfarb * Sarah Rosenthal * Stephen Ratcliffe * W. B. Keckler * Lauren Schiffman * Kirsten Kaschock * Kent Johnson * Geoffrey Gatza * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:20:08 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: FW: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick. This is fascinating: the bright side is, as you say, no military power, no secret intellience, no organisation, is ubiquitous or omniscient or omnipotent: but they can do a lot of damage. I had thought of the implosion thing myself: the explanation given though was that the structure in this case is not internal...I have a friend who is a civil/mechanical engineer...I'll run that one past him: mind you he was completely convinced that it was a "jack up" on the day of the attacks.Probably organised by the Israeli-US Govt agents: I see the Israelis have blown up a Tupolev: their agents probably planted a bomb, or the Russians shot it down to generate more enthusiasm for Russian involvement: I see Blair is in his element: these insipid characters thrive in these war situations....but I'd like to learn more of the history of Israel - I read a book years ago by a Palestinian which was very good - but I must get some more info... I'm not happy with a lot of the Israeli actions: its interesting that prior to these attacks, for the first time, some embarrassing truths about the Israelis were emerging. This is a case where someone who is Jewish has to try to be "objective" and so do Palestinians, but they've both been through a lot of strife...probably withoout extremist political influence and power and oil and warmongers: arabs and jews would live together well. I'm very interested in this letter you've sent and I'm going to send it around. As you say, people will have to make up their own minds...my friend the engineer pointed out that with the "collapse" of the Soviet Union there is now an "enemy vacuum" ig Baad America him no has Big Bad Russia and them RED Rooskies and them Kommoonists: now they have Muslims and TERRORISM which of course is how capitalism keeps itself in business. Another thing: its certainly the case that no one can be complacent anymore ...of whatever political ilk... I also think that the whole thing will backfire on the imperialist powers in long run: I think of Mao Tse Tung's dictum that the Superpowers "...are like giants who lift rocks to drop them on their own heads, and then again, until their own doom." Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Herron" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 3:55 AM Subject: FW: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? > from a newsgroup... > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Who Benefits from the World Trade Center/Pentagon Attacks? > > Who Benefits? That's always the first question to consider when a > "terrorist" > attack occurs. Instead of clenching one's fist, waving one's flag and > shouting > vindictive slogans, let's just stop for a moment of calm analysis of the > basic > facts. When we analyze who benefits, we immediately will know with over 99% > surety, who did it! > > What was the tone of U.S. and world opinion just a week or two before the > attacks? > > In the U.S., the economy was lagging badly, the stock market was falling, > many > were questioning if the government's taxes were legal, the Gary Condit case > had > been poorly handled, people continued to question Waco and the Oklahoma City > bombing, they questioned our support of Israel in her policies regarding the > Palestinians, and the approval rate of President Bush was low. > > What about World Opinion? Just 8 days before the WTC/Pentagon attacks, > Israel > was stunned by a UN decision equating Zionism with Racism, according to > Ha'aretz > Daily.com. > > Israel was branded a "racist apartheid" state by thousands of > non-governmental > organizations (NGOs) attending a U.N. World Conference Against Racism in > Durban, > South Africa. The conference was attended by representatives of 153 > governments. > > The declaration, adopted by 3,000 NGOs in 44 regional and interest-based > caucuses, shocked Jewish groups. > > Foreign Minister Shimon Peres called the anti-Israel declarations a > disgrace, > and said that Israel was "seriously" contemplating withdrawing from the > conference in protest. The Israeli delegation to the conference blasted the > language of the NGO declaration as an incitement to hatred of Jews. > > Jewish delegates walked out. The U.S. delegates followed. > > The Forum accused the Jewish state of "systematic perpetration of racist > crimes > including war crimes, acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing" in its > treatment of > the Palestinians. > > In addition, the head of the Danish Red Cross, Freddy Karup Pederson, told > the > Danish Parliamentary Foreign Affairs Committee that the lifestyle of Jewish > settlers in the Palestinian territories resembles that of whites under the > former racist apartheid system. He also criticized Israel's collective > punishment of the Palestinian population. > > So, just 8 days before the attacks, the overwhelming attitude of the nations > of > the world was against Israel's policies and in support of the Arab > countries' > charges against Israel, a nation heavily supported by, and allied with, the > U.S. > > > What has happened to U.S. and World Opinion SINCE the attacks? > > Immediately AFTER the attack, public opinion was turned 180 degrees. Now the > Arab countries are being demonized, the U.S. population is overwhelmingly > backing the President (according to the Washington Post), urging him to > punish, > kill, destroy, annihilate the perpetrators of this crime, even though no one > really has any proof who did it, the U.S. government is preparing for war, > the > U.S. and Israel have carte blanche support to bomb nearly every Arab country > out > of existence. > > No one is questioning anymore the "apartheid" policies of the Israelis > against > the Palestinians. War, as politicians have known throughout history, > stimulates > the economy and (if the propaganda is handled properly) unifies the > population > behind the President and squelches ALL criticism. > > Anyone who is not 100% behind the President is considered a traitor. > President > Bush in a televised Speech to Congress, urged global support for his war on > terrorists, warning the world: "either you are with us, or you are with the > terrorists." (Washington AFP) 9-21-01 (An effective way to stifle all > dissent!) > > If you don't go along with the plan for destruction of the Arabs advocated > by > the government, you become the target of threats and must have bodyguards, > as > California Democrat Barbara Lee has discovered. She cast the lone vote in > Congress against the use of military force in response to the WTC/Pentagon > attacks and now must have Police guarding her Capitol Hill office. (Reuters, > AP, > ABCNEWS.com > 9-18-01) > > > What ELSE has happened since the attacks? > > 1) The population has been prepared for a long term war where the number of > U.S. > casualties will be high (Washington Post Online September 21, 2001). > > 2) Bush creates a High Office of "Homeland Security" supposedly to protect > Americans from attack. The job would involve coordination of government-wide > domestic security efforts, including meshing domestic FBI and foreign CIA > intelligence, working with U.S. military, emergency officials and state and > local governments. > > The Homeland Defense position "would probably not need Senate confirmation, > which other Cabinet jobs require, nor legislation to create" White House > officials said. So there would be no investigation, oversight nor > accountability > for this person. (Reuters - Washington 9-21-01) (Perfect conditions to > appoint a > crony) > > 3) U.S. orders 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine for $343 million in > preparation for a possible bioterrorism assault. The contract has been given > to > a small, Cambridge-based firm, Acambis, a British biotechnology company who > reported a net loss of $8 million in the six months prior to June 30, > unchanged > from last year. (How convenient to get this huge order! It would be > interesting > to find out the conflict of interest issues here.) (Reuters News, London > 9-20-01) PREPARING THE POPULATION TO EXPECT BIO-TERRORISM. > > 4) "America and Britain are producing secret plans to launch a ten year "war > on > terrorism" - Operation Noble Eagle - involving a completely new military and > diplomatic strategy to eliminate terrorist networks and cells around the > world." > (The Times - London 9-20-01) > > 5) The Senate OKs FBI Spying on the Internet: FBI agents soon will be able > to > spy on Internet users legally without a court order. Two days after the > terrorist attack, the Senate approved the "Combating Terrorism Act of 2001" > which enhances police wiretap powers and permits monitoring in more > situations. > The FBI's surveillance system is called Carnivore. (Lycos Network 9-20-01) > MORE > CONTROL! > > 6) The U.S. Plans to overthrow Taliban and put Afghanistan under UN Control, > according to The Guardian - London (9-21-01) NOTE: Yugoslavia is ALREADY > under > UN control. (MORE UN CONTROL) > > 7) A global surveillance system known as Echelon exists and has the ability > to > eavesdrop on telephone calls, faxes and e-mail messages, a European > Parliament > committee has concluded. (Lycos Network 9-20-01) MORE CONTROL! > > 8) Face-ID Technology gains new support. "State lawmakers who were planning > to > sponsor legislation restricting its use now say they are reassessing their > plans." MORE CONTROL! (Denver Post Capitol Bureau, 9-20-01) > > 9) "Experts See a High-Security America of Surveillance & Seizures": New > York: > Security Experts in the United States are describing a new kind of country > that > could emerge, where electronic identification might become the norm, > immigrants > might be tracked far more closely and the airspace over cities like New York > and > Washington might be off-limits to all civilian aircraft." (The International > Herald Tribune 9-19-01) MORE SURVEILLANCE OF U.S. CITIZENS. > > 10) "Lawmakers See Need to Loosen Rules on CIA" Congressional leaders who > oversee the nation's intelligence system have concluded that America's spy > agencies should be allowed to combat terrorism with more aggressive tactics, > including the hiring of unsavory foreign agents, including revived > discussion of > reversing the US 25 year ban on using covert agents to assassinate > foreigners. > R. James Woolsey, the former director of the CIA said that "Washington has > absolutely undergone a sea change in thinking this week." (New York Times, > 9-16-01) MORE SURVEILLANCE OF U.S. CITIZENS! > > 11) NATO Announces a Third World War is Almost Upon Us. A pentagon spokesman > hinted towards potential targets being Libya, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, North > Korea, Syria and others. (NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson) > > 12) California Congresswoman, Mary Bono, R-Palm Springs warned that the > country > should prepare for a fight against international terrorists that will likely > include personal sacrifice, the use of ground troops overseas and the risk > of > retaliation against civilians by the enemy. She also predicts intense > scrutiny > of airline passengers, a national system of fingerprinting and > identification > cards and the specter of chemical and biological attacks on the U.S. (The > Desert > Sun 9-18-01) > > 13) An enemy is needed to justify a $344 Billion War Budget, when the > federal > government currently spends only $42 billion on education, $26 billion on > affordable housing and $1 billion on school construction. > > 14) President Bush sent his anti-terrorism bill to Congress one week after > the > WTC/Pentagon attack, launching an emotional debate that will force U.S. > politicians to choose between continued freedom for Americans or greater > security. (Lycos Network 9-20-01) DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO > WRITE > ONE OF THESE BILLS? IT TAKES MONTHS! They are hundreds of pages long. THIS > ONE > WAS OBVIOUSLY WRITTEN BEFORE THE ATTACK! How convenient! Wake up America! > > 15) "President George Bush focused his energy on building a GLOBAL ALLIANCE > for > a fight against terrorism..." (MSNBC 9-18-01) Here comes the New World > Order! > > 16) Fast-Moving House Bill Restricts Liberties - Much of it Unrelated to > Terrorism! Congress is being asked to rush to pass emergency anti-terrorist > legislation written by the Department of Justice, but much of the > legislation > turns out to have nothing to do with fighting terrorism. Instead, the > legislation contains a host of items which have been on the bureaucratic > wish > lists for many years. > > 17) "We Must Ignore the Peace Lobby and Show No Restraint" says The > Independent - London (9-24-01) > > 18) Bush Suspends Habeas Corpus: Legal Immigrants May Be Held Without Cause: > "The Bush Administration today announced it is using its powers under the > National Emergency Act to suspend the right of Habeas Corpus for all > immigrants > in the country, including legal immigrants, meaning that any immigrant in > the > U.S. right now can be held INDEFINITELY by the police or government WITHOUT > TRIAL OR DEMONSTRATION OF CAUSE TO HOLD THEM." > > Though no one has yet suggested infringing the rights of U.S. citizens, the > move > is a frightening first step to a national tyranny, based on perpetual > suspension > of the Constitution in the name of fighting perpetual war." > > 19) President Bush has agreed to bail out the airlines with BILLIONS of > dollars, > an industry that was swimming in red ink LONG BEFORE the WTC/Pentagon > attacks. > > > What was known BEFORE the attack - and by whom? > > 1) Echelon Gave Authorities 3 Month Warning of Attacks - German Paper: > Frankfurt, Germany - U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies received warning > signals at least three months ago that terrorists were planning to hijack > commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of > American > culture, according to a story in Germany's daily Frankfurter Allgemeine > Zeiung > (FAZ). Newsbytes.com > > 2) U.S. planned to attack Taliban BEFORE WTC/Pentagon Attacks: A former > Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the U.S. was planning military > action > against Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban even before last week's attacks. > Niaz > Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American > officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go > ahead by > the middle of October. (BBC News 9-18-01) > > 3) Expert - Russia Knew In Advance...Encouraged Citizens to Cash Out > Dollars: > Russian press accounts and other activities by the Russian government this > summer indicate that the Russians knew in advance that something would > happen to > America, including a "financial attack" against the U.S. During the past > three > months, Russian media and officials have encouraged citizens to cash out of > U.S. > dollars pending an economic collapse there after an "attack." (NewsMax.com > 9-17-01) > > 4) FBI tracked man in custody 2 weeks before attacks: "Two weeks before the > terrorist attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C., FBI agents were at > a > flight school in Oklahoma asking questions about a man now suspected of > having a > link to those attacks", according to CNN. > > "The fact that FBI agents were at the Airman Flight School in Norman, > Oklahoma, > two weeks before any attacks would seem to contradict the agency's assertion > that it was not aware of any connection between aviation schools and > suspected > terrorists. FBI Director Robert Mueller has stated publicly, "There were NO > warning signs that I'm aware of that would indicate this type of operation > in > the country," (CNN.com 9-18-01) SOMEBODY IS LYING! > > 5) U.S. Pulled Plug on 500 Arab/Muslim Websites the Day BEFORE Jetliner > Attacks: > Five hundred websites - many of them with an Arab or Muslim connection - > crashed > when an anti-terrorism task force raided InfoCom Corporation in Texas. The > 80-strong task force that descended upon the IT company included FBI agents, > Secret Service agents, Diplomatic Security agents, tax inspectors, > immigration > officials, customs officials, department of commerce officials and computer > experts. (Brian Whitaker 9-12-01) > > 6) U.S. was warned in 1995 of plot to hijack planes, attack buildings: The > FBI > was warned six years ago of a terrorist plot to hijack commercial planes and > slam them into the Pentagon, The CIA headquarters and other buildings, > Philippine investigators told CNN. The plan was termed Project Bojinka. > (Manila, > Philippines CNN 9-18-01) > > 7) "U.S. Government Had Prior Knowledge of Emergency: The most massive > so-called > "terrorist" attacks on U.S. soil since the Oklahoma City bombings of 1995, > were > known, a week ahead of time, by the American CIA. Among the foreign > intelligence > agencies who penetrated the plots were the French CIA and Israel's The > Mossad, > units of both often working with one another. > > "Foreign intelligence sources confirm the validity of this story. And they > state > that they informed the U.S. secret police who absolutely failed, neglected, > and > outright refused to take action as to known prior specifics of which the > top-level of the CIA were informed in advance." (www.skolnicksreport.com > 9-13-01) HOW INTERESTING! > > 8) Spy in the White House? "Terrorists" had Ultra Secret Codes on 911: > (DEBKA > Intelligence Files 9-22-01) > > 9) More Unusual Market Activity Reported BEFORE Attacks: "Chicago traders on > Wednesday cited unusual activity in airline options up to a month before > attacks > on U.S. landmarks, and German bankers reported brisk activity in reinsurer > Munich Re shares, adding to speculation that those behind the attacks tried > to > profit from their acts. (Reuters 9-20-01) > > So how come EVERYONE else knew this was going to happen? Why would the U.S. > refuse to investigate when told, unless it was their own plan all along? > > > BIG CLUE!! Why did the Towers IMPLODE instead of EXPLODE? > > The towers came down as gracefully as a fountain of water. "Too methodical > to be > a chance result of airplanes colliding with the structures" said Van Romero, > vice president for research at New Mexico Institute of Mining and > Technology. > > "My opinion is that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there > were > some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to > collapse," > Romero said. Romero is a former director of the Energetic Materials Research > and > Testing Center at Tech, which studies explosive materials and the effects of > explosions on buildings, aircraft and other structures. > > The Towers IMPLODED! They did NOT explode! A fuel fire causes an EXplosion, > not > an IMplosion. Explosions explode OUT. Implosions, implode IN! > > IMPLOSIONS can ONLY occur with immense planning by a highly skilled group of > craftsmen educated in the unique skill of demolishing buildings by > strategically > placing explosive devices within the building. This requires many experts, > much > time and significant access to the building beforehand. > > The skill of implosion of buildings was developed primarily to demolish > buildings in areas of high building density, so the destruction of the > structure > will not cause damage to the surrounding buildings. > > In addition, the towers came down long after the planes struck. To suggest > that > fuel dumping from the airplanes caused a fire hot enough to melt the inner > structure is ludicrous. > > First of all, who can prove the planes dumped all of their fuel into the > core of > the building? > > Second, why did the fuel take so long to catch fire? > > Third, fuel-fires cause EXplosions, NOT IMplosions! > > Fourth, the structure was built to withstand temperatures of 2000 degrees > Fahrenheit, according to the architect and designer of the building, a man > who > is now deceased, but who preserved this nugget of information in an > interview he > recorded in 1998. > > Hyman Brown, a University of Colorado civil engineering professor and the > World > Trade Center's construction manager, watched in confusion as the towers came > down. "It was over-designed to withstand almost anything including > hurricanes, > high winds, bombings and an airplane hitting it," he said. (Scripps Howard > News > Service 9-11,01 and 9-12-01) > > So, why was it necessary to implode the whole structure? To eliminate > evidence, > just as was done to the Murrah building in Oklahoma City, before the > forensic > specialists could get in to examine the evidence. > > Just like the Branch Davidian compound at Waco was bulldozed by the > government > before any evidence could be examined. > > Conclusion: This was a highly skilled endeavor by a large group of > well-trained > people with access to the buildings, the airplanes and the explosives. They > would have had to blend into the population and not look suspicious. > > Question: Who would have these qualifications? Certainly not a large group > of > Arab "terrorists"! > > > Where are the "Indestructible" Black Boxes? > > All four Black Boxes were supposedly destroyed and rendered unusable in > spite of > the fact that they are designed specifically for plane crashes which result > in > insurmountable conditions. In fact there are reported to be TWO Black Boxes > on > each plane, but apparently ALL EIGHT of the Black Boxes are completely > destroyed. > > Strange indeed! > > ABC News Reports: The Black Box is "ALMOST INDESTRUCTIBLE. IT IS DESIGNED TO > WITHSTAND HEAT OF UP TO 2,000 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT FOR ONE HOUR, salt water > for at > least 30 days, immersion in a variety of liquids such as jet fuel and > lubricants, AND AN IMPACT OF 3,400 G's. By comparison, astronauts are > typically > exposed to up to six Gs during a shuttle takeoff." > > Yet CNN reported that "In New York, several blocks from the ruins of the > World > Trade Center, a passport authorities said belonged to one of the hijackers > was > discovered a few days ago, according to city Police Commissioner Bernard > Kerik." > > The paper passport apparently survived intact! > > The "indestructible Black Boxes were destroyed! > > Hmmm! > > > Who Has Claimed Responsibility? > > Within HOURS after the attack the U.S. was aggressively touting Osama bin > Laden > as the "terrorist" responsible for this dastardly deed. As one writer to a > popular website noted, "I find it laughable that the agency notorious for > its > inability to find a bleeding elephant in a snowbank suddenly (within hours > of > the attack) has the culprit pinpointed!" > > The media continuously whips up the public to indiscriminate hatred of > almost > any Arab. On radio, on TV, in the newspapers and in magazines, all one hears > or > reads is HATE towards Osama bin Laden, or any other Muslim. The Globe, a > well-known grocery store rag, contains pictures of Osama Bin Laden with > rifle > "cross-hairs" targeted over his face and a soldier in fatigues pointing an > automatic rifle at his head. Yet these same media outlets pompously demand > the > elimination of "hate!" > > It is USUAL and CUSTOMARY for Terrorist groups to claim responsibility for > an > attack. Yet no such claim has been made. > > Osama bin Laden says he didn't do it. "We have been blamed in the past, but > we > were not involved," he said. (The Guardian - London 9-17-01) > > "Egyptian President Mubarak still has not seen bin Laden proof," according > to a > Paris AFP report. "Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak says he has not seen any > proof of Osama bin Laden being "the brains" behind the terrorist attacks on > the > United States and warns Washington against over-hasty reprisals, in a > newspaper > interview published on 9-24-01. > > Saddam Hussein, in a letter to the American People noted that "when the > event > took place, Arab rulers and the rulers of countries whose religions is > Islam, > rushed to condemn the event." (Iraqi News Agency 916-01) > > There are even reports that Osama bin Laden has been, and may still now be, > an > operative of the U.S. CIA. > > And now, according to The Washington Post (9-25-01), The U.S. is now > "Unsure" of > Going Public with the "Proof" of Osama bin Laden's responsibility for the > "terrorist" attack. With the U.S. public, and other nations, demanding > proof, > the Bush administration is hiding behind the cloak of "National Security." > > Secretary of State Colin Powell promised that the U.S. "soon" would "put out > a > paper. . that will describe quite clearly the evidence that we have linking" > bin > Laden to the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. But Rep. Porter > Goss (R-Fla), chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on > Intelligence, > said that the administration cannot present its full case "without revealing > some sources and methods that we would not want to reveal." HOW INTERESTING > AND > CONVENIENT FOR THEM! > > > Now Let's Consider - Are There Other Countries, besides the Arabs, who have > ever > been involved in terrorism? > > According to the Washington Report, "In 1967 on the fourth day of the Six > Day > War, the armed forces of Israel attacked the American intelligence ship USS > Liberty for 90 minutes in international waters in broad daylight following > several hours of close, low-level reconnaissance. Thirty-four men died, 171 > were > hurt, and the ship was so badly damaged that it had to be scrapped. > > The government of Israel has lied about the circumstances ever since, > telling a > story markedly different from that told by American survivors. Congress has > refused to question Israel's demonstrably false account. > > Why would Israel risk alienating its American friends? Why did Israel > attack? > > According to eyewitness accounts by Israeli officers and journalists, the > Israeli Army executed as many as 1,000 Arab prisoners during the 1967 war. > Historian Gabby Bron wrote in the Yediot Ahronot in Israel that he witnessed > Israeli troops executing Egyptian prisoners on the morning of June 8, 1967, > in > the Sinai town of El Arish, including about 150 Egyptian POWs. They made the > prisoners dig their own graves then they were shot as they stood at the edge > of > the grave. > > As those executions were underway, America's most sophisticated intelligence > platform, USS Liberty, was less than 13 miles from El Arish, close enough to > see > the town mosque with the naked eye. With binoculars one could make out > individual buildings and might have seen the executions if one had looked in > the > right place. > > The attack on the USS Liberty lasted 75 minutes. It was not brief nor > accidental > as Israel claims. The Israelis wantonly destroyed life rafts in the water > and > they jammed international radio distress frequencies while Americans, who > might > have been saved, died! > > The United States is no stranger to perpetrating acts of terrorism against > other > countries. The U.S. bombed Iraq unmercifully during the Gulf War. Thousands > of > private citizens were slaughtered. Then a deadly embargo was put in place to > destroy them slowly by illness and starvation. What was the crime of the > common > people? > > The U.S. CIA has also been involved in covert wars all over the globe, > raping > and pillaging entire economies of Central American and other countries. > > In addition, the U.S. is not above turning on its own citizens with > vengeance. > > FDR Knew About Pearl Harbor: John Flynn made a sound case for Roosevelt's > foreknowledge in 1946, the historian Charles Beard confirmed it in 1948 with > his > book FDR and the Coming of the War 1941. John Toland told the story in > Infamy in > the early 1980s, and John Stinnett followed with Day of Deceit. They all > understood FDR's manipulation of, and complicity in, the attack on Pearl > Harbor. > It was done to incite the U.S. citizens to hate the Japanese and push them > to > support the U.S. entry into World War II. > > And it worked beautifully! Americans willingly gave their own lives and the > lives of their sons to fight a war that had nothing to do with them. > > FDR knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Not only did he refuse to > stop it, he encouraged it by his manipulative treatment of Japan prior to > the > attack, and his stationing of ships in the Hawaiian port, an easy target for > the > Japanese. (Antiwar.com) > > It worked magnificently then - and it is working magnificently now! > > Other acts of violence that must be considered are: The Randy Weaver family > killings by the U.S. government in Idaho, the Waco horror where the U.S. > shot, > bulldozed and set on fire its own citizens, and the Oklahoma bombing, where > there is abundant information pointing to U.S. Government involvement . > > Why would a government plan an attack its own citizens, while blaming > another? > > What would it have to gain? > > The answer is: EVERYTHING! > > > Go back and review what has happened SINCE the attack: > > The U.S. Government has dramatically increased its control over the American > population while destroying the rights of the people, a situation necessary > for > the takeover of the U.S. and eventually, all other countries, by the New > World > Order to be run by the United Nations. And they're doing it with the > citizens' > complete support. > > "The President has the power to seize property, organize and control the > means > of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, call > reserve > forces amounting to 2 1/2 million men to duty, institute martial law, seize > and > control all means of transportation, regulate all private enterprise, > restrict > travel, and in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of ALL > Americans...While the danger of a dictatorship arising through legal means > may > seem remote to us today..." > > --A Joint Statement by Senators Frank Church (D-ID) and Charles McMathias > (R-MD) > September 30, 1973. HOW PROPHETIC! > > > A SURE ROAD TO DICTATORSHIP! > > U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft Seeks Sweeping Powers! > > "The United States will remain vulnerable to terrorist attacks unless law > enforcement agencies are given a wide range of new counterterrorism tools, > including improved wiretap capabilities and easier access to voice mail and > Internet user's personal information, Attorney General John Ashcroft told > lawmakers Monday." (MSNBC > 9-25-01) > > A third of New Yorkers support internment camps (concentration camps) for > "individuals who authorities identify as being sympathetic to terrorist > causes," > according to a poll form the Siena College Research Institute. (Newsday.com > 9-25-01) (Remember that President Bush has said that if you don't support > the > U.S. government 100% in their handling of this situation - - - YOU ARE > SIDING > WITH THE TERRORISTS!) > > Public Opinion has overwhelming turned from support for the Arabs and > against > Israel, to supporting Israel and their ally, the U.S. and hatred against the > Arab countries. > > And now the U.S. has the support of the entire nation, and much of the > world, > for its unrestrained unleashing of vengeance on ANY and EVERY Arab nation. > > But it's not surprising that the U.S. and Israel are the ONLY countries > where > the majority backs a military strike (Reuters 9-22-01). > > >From Stern.Intel: Israeli Mossad Links to World Trade Center Attack: "A > U.S. > military intelligence source revealed details of an internal intelligence > memo > that points to the Israeli Mossad intelligence service having links to the > World > Trade Center and Pentagon attacks... > > "The attacks have certainly turned U.S. public opinion firmly back in > Israel's > favor after eleven months of Palestinian uprising, heavy criticism of Israel > over war crimes allegations and racism by a UN conference in Durban." > > Lebanese Druze Leader Believes CIA, Mossad Responsible for U.S. Attacks! > Lebanon's anti-Syrian Druze leader Walid Jumblatt believes the CIA and > Israel's > secret service Mossad are behind the terrorist attacks in the United States, > and > that Saudi extremist Osama bin Laden is an "American agent," newspaper > reports > said. (Beirut AFP 9-15-01) > > Fake Terror has been the Road to Dictatorship > for thousands of years. > It's the oldest trick in the book, dating back to Roman times. > > Create the enemies you need! > > A wise philosopher has unveiled the irony of it all: "To restore our > freedom, we > will need to be deprived of it. To recover from senseless murder, we will > need > to perpetrate more of it," or so says the President. > > So, Who's Responsible? > > The Answer is: Who Benefits? > > You figure it out! > > Note: If all of this is discouraging to you, there is a Bright Side. Human > governments ARE NOT MEANT to work well. They will ALL fail. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:44:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UGA Lanier Reading Series Subject: Steve McCaffery poetry reading and lecture Comments: To: english grad students MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The University of Georgia English department, represented by Lanier Chair Jed Rasula, would like to announce the first reader of the 2001 Lanier Reading Series, poet and critic Steve McCaffery. On Wednesday, October 10th, at 2:30 in room 265 Park Hall, Steve McCaffery will give a poetry reading. On Thursday, October 11th, at 4:30 in room 261Park Hall, Steve McCaffery will give a lecture, "The Instrumental Nightingale: Reflections on the Counter-musical from Gray to Celan". Steve McCaffery is author of fifteen books of poetry and one novel Panopticon. He has twice received the Gertrude Stein Award for Innovative American Poetry in 1993-94 and 1994-95. Theory of Sediment was nominated for the Governor General's Award in 1992 and The Black Debt was short-listed for the 1990 Before Columbus Award. In 1973 he co-founded with the late bp Nichol the Toronto Research Group and edited Rational Geomancy: the Kids of the Book-Machine. He is author of North of Intention: Critical Writings 1973-1986, an early and influential collection of essays about experimental writing in Canada and the U.S. He is co-editor with Jed Rasula of Imagining Language, a substantial, annotated anthology that gathers two millennia of conjecture on the written and spoken sign. His collection of critical writings, Prior to Meaning: The Protosemantic and Poetics, and his selected poems, Seven Pages Missing (new and selected poems) have recently been released. He is currently at wor k on two other books: Slightly Left of Thinking which will gather poems, interviews and critical essays, and an annotated edition of his two decades of correspondence with Fluxus artist Dick Higgins. He has performed his poetry world-wide and his work has been translated into French, Spanish, Chinese, and Hungarian. He teaches poetics, critical theory, and contemporary literature at York University in Toronto. Steve McCaffery is a major figure in contemporary poetry -- certainly one of the most innovative and conceptually challenging poets of the last twenty-five years. -- Gerald Burns McCaffery's high-theoretical performances reclaim literary theory for engaged literary practices. -- Charles Bernstein Again and again McCaffery stresses the need to free poetic language from the co-option by what he calls the 'media model', the model of 'linguistic transparency' and grammatical rule --. Marjorie Perloff In direct contrast to the conditions of classical irony, McCaffery finds its climax in the incompletest completion. That unresolvable interplay of ecstasy and lacunae defines the tenor of McCaffery's work and sets its sounds, its conditions, the contours of its bliss. Frederick Garber For poems (with sound files) and more information, please visit Steve McCaffery's web-site: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/mccaffery/ For Margery Perloff's review of his work, please visit: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/author/perloff/mccaf.html For Steve McCaffery's work in context with related literary projects, please visit: http://www.ubu.com/artist_index.html --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. Yahoo! by Phone. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 02:45:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: steganography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII steganography !!9N "R!< Ek|- wWxW> mJ9= s*5J ;E-+ /#!Cot * ^2 I}D)` G-MR *"JBT@ GB`x +VbO )B %E#: JD/7Y2~ ChN` AZ6X *2jM Gm1M [`!L AFI O^uV !1>QC %-{A |JBZ$ /.5. klVL '@ s K[H%&&}) RYk84> {u/n@ ;8qS o#) !$Fa> AJ ~d Z"eTR5]q8 #)C% SC|G lR[} 'M)hu( +$%F +80L $kP^ 1%R& fv5Ei3 R[NPEK $wf' {am| [eJbS +l'(F kPv#C IH}@' )='o *Ru={ o~HO y2~x V6{:y KN,f [fFH fq8z NeHN JS*aK W?E. Pz][ [SM: >T:t +JwQ!# 8/&tW F]c]k _Ka9 W]3HI ,A0BGC? LO*" @&ULY Q4-yr QR5^ 3Sp59 !AJZI 252 IQVM dfu %' 36P4Ve (P'J +ZJH9GJ gia\ spvQx ]}h% xgU{ [24\B_i SIM> Black 0:00 White 0:00 Black 0:00 White 0:00 Black 0:00 White 0:00 Book used 0(8000). Book used 0(8000). Book used 0(8000). Can't find book. Can't find book. Can't find book. FX>6 i@y"N fl-3 _ueW_ [Wu@ eY\) kqJe LYXZ #/B"~ JuOC c/25 wG^s :U$l ?)WNuf It's not my fault. It's not my fault. It's not my fault. It's your fault. It's your fault. It's your fault. Q"aq #B3CR JFIF JN%t S0|J 4TE_Yp #xkj k'C5 9G1# vHOf ?1Hz Ra9| 1$)3 T+K4[ eEQ#O~ [yUL En(( L N S G K G S N L O:Qb6 TD`L I&~t u) $ '.e( $6IH t>5K}lXk @j}*b KE8f }+Dt V&ZuhJ@ HRb9h P P P P P P P P P Segmentation fault Segmentation fault Segmentation fault Sky-Shogi Deconstruction Your move is? Your move is? Your move is? Your move is? Yu(A \+BU #,jSO T@R@ .9jF 3&`|w 7\'l 0&JZ @!>4] 2_aE) ':J4 #cY7 /!M\$- _Gs@|o !Wx~ RG1N TK`G +fm8v ]CYw <2-'b UIKNeT ^ XNR ^:Br [b<5sjFk 6_}uJ l n s g k g s n l p p p p p p p p p r> T:t( !Q:Tuf s.)*0 H'OL 7kR[H D5;p3 ySgpv DXf6 !zy7I[ KiHiIBt *&$EO %e +++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 18:34:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Call for Burningman related poetry and essay submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for those of you who have been to burningman and would like to submit poetry or essays to a publication dedicated to articulating the burningman experience: > > A Call for Submissions! > > Drama in the Desert - Sight & Sound > A multidimensional project based on the images of Holly Kreuter > www.desertdrama.com > > Drama in the Desert wants YOUR essays and poetry! > > Drama in the Desert is a compilation of images and sounds > captured over five > years at Burning Man. It's a fully-sensory, audio-visual > experience of what > it feels like to be at the event. It uses images, poetry, essays and a > digital soundscape CD recording to explain how the place is whatever you > make it: a city of freedom and friendship. From snapshots and snippets of > sound, this book attempts to document experience and archive moments from > this tremendous humanity festival. > > Essays & Poetry Wanted > > We're accepting essays and poems relating to images from Burning > Man. After > receiving a private URL from our editors, some images may be viewed for > creative writing ideas. Ideally, your submission(s) will be > inspired by one > of the images or a group of images, or be about a particular piece of > artwork or performance/activity. > > Please visit www.desertdrama.com for submission guidelines and/or email > submissions@desertdrama.com for more information. Deadline for submissions > is October 11th but may be extended. If you think you want to write > something but the deadline is too near, email us, we will work with you. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 01:04:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rogers Subject: OCT NYS LITTREE UPDATE & SEPTEMBER 11 FORUM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Friends, W. H. Auden famously said, ". . .for poetry makes nothing happen" and William Carlos Williams said you can't "get the news from poetry." These last weeks have taught us that while there is no poetry in evil, there is knowledge and understanding in poetry (read "literature"). The New York State Literary Curators web site, http://www.nyslittree.org, this month includes several benefit readings for victims of the World Trade Center disaster. Among them are Sistahs Underground at the Nuyorican Cafe in NYC (Oct. 6), Word Thursdays in Treadwell (Oct. 11), The World Trade Center Relief Fund reading at the New School in NYC (October 17), and the Gathering of the Tribes Benefit on October 20 in NYC, and more. And we have added a page to the littree web site -- A September 11, 2001 Forum -- click on Forum on the home page to read work about the tragic events of September 11 from writers all over the world. If you would like to be included send your poetry, fiction, or commentary to wordthur@catskill.net. The site will be updated biweekly. This month we welcome venues Patrias and Writers Live! in Brooklyn, the Soccer Hall of Fame in Oneonta, and ZuZus in Albany. If you'd like to see your events on the littree, send IN THE BODY OF THE EMAIL (WE DO NOT OPEN ATTACHMENTS) to wordthur@catskill.net. If you're a writer and would like to be included on the Circuit Writers page (for in-state writers) or the Interstate Writers page (for those from elsewhere in the US), look at the pages, follow the format, and email us your information. Our very best to all of you, Bertha Rogers, Site Curator Loss Pequeno Glazier, Webmaster ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:08:25 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: Labor Against War Statement--Sign On/Pass It On MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Especially as it could wl have been orgainbised by the CIA as patrick's post indicates!! Courage. You are brave to oppose this insane action by the fascists. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gene" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:29 AM Subject: Fwd: Fw: Labor Against War Statement--Sign On/Pass It On >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 20:33:18 -0400 >Reply-To: Society for the Philosophical Study of Marxism Listserve > >Sender: Society for the Philosophical Study of Marxism Listserve > >From: George Snedeker >Subject: Fw: Labor Against War Statement--Sign On/Pass It On >Comments: cc: psn >To: SPSM-LIST@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by >mx6.dc2.adelphia.net id f940XIa15093 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 7:28 PM >Subject: Labor Against War Statement--Sign On/Pass It On > > > >To add your name to the statement below, please e-mail: >letwin@alaa.org. > >To subscribe to the Labor Against War listserv, please e-mail: >, or visit: >. > >Apologies if you have already received the statement below. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Press Advisory >For immediate release: October 3, 2001 >Contact: Michael Letwin 212.343.0708 or Ray Laforest 212.219.0022 > > NYC LABOR GROUP OPPOSES WAR > > WHAT: NYC labor press conference against war. > > TIME: Thursday, October 4, 12 Noon. > > PLACE: Union Square, north side of 14 Street. > > WHO: Labor Against War, an ad hoc coalition in response to the >September 11 tragedy, supported by more than 100 union members (in their >individual capacity) in New York City, including the following eight >union presidents: Larry Adams, National Postal Mail Handlers Union >Local 300; Barbara Bowen, Professional Staff Congress-CUNY/AFT Local >2334; Arthur Cheliotes, Communication Workers of America Local 1180; >Michael Letwin, Association of Legal Aid Attorneys/UAW Local 2325; Jill >Levy, Council of Supervisors and Administrators, NYS Federation of >School Administrators, American Federation of School Administrators >Local 1; Maida Rosenstein, UAW Local 2110; Brenda Stokely, AFSCME Local >215, DC 1707; Jonathan Tasini, National Writers Union/UAW Local 1981. > > PRINCIPLES: > > â?¢NO WAR. It is wrong to punish any nation or people for the crimes of >individualsâ?"peace requires global social and economic justice. > > â?¢JUSTICE, NOT VENGEANCE. An independent international tribunal to >impartially investigate, apprehend and try those responsible for the >September 11 attack. > > â?¢OPPOSITION TO RACISMâ?"DEFENSE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES. Stop terror, > racial >profiling and legal restrictions against people of color and immigrants, >and defend democratic rights. > > â?¢AID FOR THE NEEDY, NOT THE GREEDY. Government aid for the victimsâ?T >families and displaced workersâ?"not the wealthy. Rebuild New York City >with union labor, union pay, and with special concern for new threats to >worker health and safety. > > â?¢NO LABOR â?oAUSTERITY.â? The cost of September 11 must not be > borne by >working and poor New Yorkers. No surrender of workersâ?T living >standards, programs or other rights. > >FULL TEXT AND SIGNATURE LIST BELOW > > -30- > > New York City Labor Against War > September 27, 2001 > > September 11 has brought indescribable suffering to New York Cityâ?Ts >working people. We have lost friends, family members and coworkers of >all colors, nationalities and religionsâ?"a thousand of them union >members. An estimated one hundred thousand New Yorkers will lose their >jobs. > > We condemn this crime against humanity and mourn those who perished. >We are proud of the rescuers and the outpouring of labor support for >victimsâ?T families. We want justice for the dead and safety for the >living. > > And we believe that George Bushâ?Ts war is not the answer. > > No one should suffer what we experienced on September 11. Yet war will >inevitably harm countless innocent civilians, strengthen American >alliances with brutal dictatorships and deepen global povertyâ?"just as >the United States and its allies have already inflicted widespread >suffering on innocent people in such places as Iraq, Sudan, Israel and >the Occupied Territories, the former Yugoslavia and Latin America. > > War will also take a heavy toll on us. For Americans in uniformâ?"the >overwhelming number of whom are workers and people of colorâ?"it will be >another Vietnam. It will generate further terror in this country >against Arabs, Muslims, South Asians, people of color and immigrants, >and erode our civil liberties. > > It will redirect billions to the military and corporate executives, >while draining such essential domestic programs as education, health >care and the social security trust. In New York City and elsewhere, it >will be a pretext for imposing â?oausterityâ? on labor and poor people >under the guise of â?onational unity.â? > > War will play into the hands of religious fanaticsâ?"from Osama bin Laden >to Jerry Falwellâ?"and provoke further terrorism in major urban centers >like New York. > > Therefore, the undersigned New York City metro-area trade unionists >believe a just and effective response to September 11 demands: > > **NO WAR. It is wrong to punish any nation or people for the crimes of >individualsâ?"peace requires global social and economic justice. > > **JUSTICE, NOT VENGEANCE. An independent international tribunal to >impartially investigate, apprehend and try those responsible for the >September 11 attack. > > **OPPOSITION TO RACISMâ?"DEFENSE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES. Stop terror, racial >profiling and legal restrictions against people of color and immigrants, >and defend democratic rights. > > **AID FOR THE NEEDY, NOT THE GREEDY. Government aid for the victimsâ?T >families and displaced workersâ?"not the wealthy. Rebuild New York City >with union labor, union pay, and with special concern for new threats to >worker health and safety. > > **NO LABOR â?oAUSTERITY.â? The cost of September 11 must not be > borne by >working and poor New Yorkers. No surrender of workersâ?T living >standards, programs or other rights. > >Signers (list in formation) >(All affiliations and titles listed for identification only) > >UNION PRESIDENTS >â?¢Larry Adams, President, National Postal Mail Handlers Union Local 300 >â?¢Barbara Bowen, President, Professional Staff Congress-CUNY/AFT Local >2334 >â?¢Arthur Cheliotes, President, CWA Local 1180 >â?¢Michael Letwin, President, Association of Legal Aid Attorneys/UAW Local >2325 >â?¢Jill Levy, President, Council of Supervisors and Administrators, NYS >Federation of School Administrators, American Federation of School >Administrators Local 1 >â?¢Maida Rosenstein, President, UAW Local 2110 >â?¢Brenda Stokely, President, AFSCME Local 215, DC 1707 >â?¢Jonathan Tasini, President, National Writers Union/UAW Local 1981 > >OTHER UNION MEMBERS >â?¢Ervand Abrahanian, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Tristin Adie, Shop Steward, CWA Local 1109 >â?¢Marilyn Albert, RN, SEIU Local 1199 >â?¢George Albro, Secâ?Ty-Treasurer, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Anthony Arnove, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢Sylvia Aron, Human Services Providers Advisory Committee, NYC Central >Labor Rehabilitation Council; Past President, AAUP, Adelphi Chapter >â?¢Stanley Aronowitz, University-Wide Officer & Executive Council, >PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Daniel Ashworth, Delegate, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Harold Bahr III, Chair, GLTGC, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Thomas Barton, Shop Steward, AFSCME Local 768, DC 37 >â?¢Nicholas K. Bedell, Grievance Representative, CWE/UFT >â?¢Dorothee Benz, Communications Director, CWA Local 1180 >â?¢Carl Biers, Executive Director, Association for Union Democracy >â?¢Peter Blum, Acting Vice-President/CAB, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Ian Brand, UNITE! Local 169 >â?¢Caroline N. Brown, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >â?¢Robert Bomersbach, Organization of Staff Analysts >â?¢Bill Bradley, Delegate, SEIU Local 32B-J >â?¢Renate Bridenthal, Chair, International Committee, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local >2334 >â?¢Rachel Burd, labor consultant, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢Chris Butters, AFSCME Local 1070, DC 37 >â?¢Maria J. Chiu, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Kimberly Christensen, UUP >â?¢Patricia Clough, Queens College Chapter Officer, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local >2334 >â?¢Antonia Codling, Chair, ACLA, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Hillel Cohen, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199 >â?¢Thelma C. Correll, SEIU Local 1199, Retirees Chapter Executive >Committee; Association for Union Democracy Advisory Bd.; PHANYC >â?¢Jackie DiSalvo, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Claire Crosby, GSEU/UAW Local 2110 >â?¢Robert E. Dow, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >â?¢Bryce Dowd, Organizer, SEIU Local 1199 >â?¢Steve Downs, Executive Board member, TWU Local 100 >â?¢Phyllis Eckhaus, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢Madeleine M. Egger, CWA Local 1101 >â?¢Hester Eisenstein, Queens College Chapter, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Hugh English, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Hillary Exter, LSSA/UAW Local 2320 >â?¢Samuel Farber, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Josh Fraidstern, TWU Local 100 >â?¢Lew Friedman, UFT >â?¢Eric Fruman, AFT >â?¢Nanette Funk, Brooklyn College Chapter, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Pam Galpern, Shop Steward, CWA Local 1101 >â?¢Gary Goff, Recording Secâ?Ty, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >â?¢Marty Goodman, Executive Board, TWU Local 100 >â?¢Winston A. Gordon, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Mark Grashow, former Chapter Chairperson, UFT >â?¢George Gulifield, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >â?¢Larry Hanley, City College Delegate, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Bill Henning, Vice-President, CWA Local 1180 >â?¢Lucy Herschel, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199, Legal Aid Chapter >â?¢Ed Hilbrich, SSA/SEIU Local 693 >â?¢Carol Hochberg, Vice-President/JRD, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Norman Hodgett, AFSCME Local 371, DC 37 >â?¢Nina Howes, RN, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199 >â?¢Carolyn Hughes, UFT >â?¢Lisa Jessup, Organizer, UAW Local 2110 >â?¢Melanie Kaye/Kantrowitz, Director, Queens College Worker Education >Extension Center; PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Christine Karatnytsky, Executive Board member, New York Public Library >Guild, AFSCME Local 1930; Editor, Local >1930 Update >â?¢David Kazanjian, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Dian Killian, Organizer, Journalism Division, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢Terry Klug, Secâ?Ty-Treasurer, TWU Local 241 >â?¢Lisa Maya Knauer, GSOC/UAW Local 2110 >â?¢Daniella Korotzer, Alternate Vice-President/CDD-Brooklyn, Health & >Safety Representative, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Kitty Krupat, Bargaining Team, GSOC/UAW Local 2110 >â?¢Ray Laforest, Staff Representative, DC 1707, AFSCME >â?¢Jane Latour, Director, Womenâ?Ts Project, Association for Union >Democracy; Managing Ed., Hardhat Magazine; NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢Tatiana Lemon, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199, Legal Aid Chapter >â?¢Robert Lesko, Vice-President, AFT Local 3882 >â?¢Eileen A. McCann, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Patrick McCreery, GSOC/UAW Local 2110 >â?¢Julius Margolin, IATSE Local 52 >â?¢Barton Meyers, Chair, Grievance Policy Committee, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local >2334 >â?¢Aaron Micheau, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Charles Molesworth, Acting Chair, Queens College Chapter, PSC-CUNY, AFT >Local 2334 >â?¢Kim Moody, NWU/UAW Local 1981; Labor Notes Policy Committee >â?¢Florence Morgan, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Susan Olivia Morris, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Amy Muldoon, CWA Local 1106 >â?¢Ken Nash, Building Bridges: Your Community and Labor Report in Exile >â?¢Marcia Newfield, BMCC Chapter Officer, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Daniel Nichols, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >â?¢Matt Noyes, Education Coordinator, Association for Union Democracy; >NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢Tony Oâ?TBrien, Delegate, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Susan Oâ?TMalley, Executive Council, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Charlene Mitchell, Assistant to the President, AFSCME Local 371, DC 37 >â?¢Chuck Mohan, President, Guyanese-American Workers United; Staff >Representative, AFSCME DC 1707 >â?¢Dennis Oâ?TNeil, Legislative Director, NY Metro Area Postal Union (APWU) >â?¢Richard L. Oeser, IATSE Local 52; Cornell Labor Studies; National Labor >College >â?¢Greg Pason, NJ Steering Committee, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢J.P. Patafio, New Directions Caucus & Executive Board member, TWU Local >100 >â?¢Paul Peloquin, Delegate, LSSA/UAW 2320 >â?¢Andy Piascik, Program Coordinator, Association for Union Democracy; >NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢John Pietaro, Delegate, SEIU Local 1199, Health Systems Division >â?¢Pride at Work, NY >â?¢Jim Provost, LSSA/UAW 2320 >â?¢Mike Quinn, High School Delegate, UFT >â?¢Peter Ranis, Executive Council, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Shirley Rausher, BMCC Delegate, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Dominic Renda, CWA Local 1105 >â?¢Sally Ridgeway, AAUP, Adelphi Chapter >â?¢Cicely Rodway, Queens College Chapter Officer, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Andrew Rowe, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Jay Schaffner, Supervisor, National Contracts Dept., AFM Local 802 >â?¢Jose Schiffino, Organizer, UNITE! Local 169 >â?¢Soo Kyung Nam, UAW Local 2320 >â?¢Adolph Reed, Jr. NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢Nancy Romer, Executive Council, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Trudy Rudnick, Organizer, AFT Local 3882 >â?¢Wendy Scribner, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Hasan Shafiqullah, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Tim Schermerhorn, Vice President, RTO, TWU Local 100 >â?¢Joyce Soso, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >â?¢Ann Sparanese, Shop Steward, RWDSU Local 29 >â?¢Claudette R. Spencer, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Gibb Surette, Delegate, LSSA/UAW 2320 >â?¢Sean Sweeney, Director, Cornell Labor Studies >â?¢Kyle Talbert, AFSCME Local 2627, DC 37 >â?¢Terry Taylor, IBEW Local 827, Black Telephone Workers For Justice >â?¢Steve Terry, Alternate Delegate, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Miriam Thompson, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Azalia Torres, Alternate Vice-President/CDD-Brooklyn, ALAA/UAW Local >2325 >â?¢Mark Ungar, PSC-CUNY, AFT Local 2334 >â?¢Lise Vogel, AAUP/CBC >â?¢Marilyn Vogt-Downey, UFT >â?¢Kit Wainer, UFT >â?¢Michael Ware, Shop Steward, CWA Local 1109 >â?¢Ron Washington, IBEW Local 827, Black Telephone Workers For Justice >â?¢Edlyn Willer, Delegate, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Corinne Willinger, PEF >â?¢JoAnn Wypijewski, TNGNY/CWA >â?¢Ethan Young, NWU/UAW Local 1981 >â?¢Milton Zelermyer, Delegate, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 >â?¢Robert Zuss, Vice-President/CDD-Brooklyn, ALAA/UAW Local 2325 > >================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:09:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: robert saint Subject: Re: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From a newsgroup... Who benefits - how about Patrick Herron. The same type of things were placed into circulation by the right wing militias after the Oklahoma City bombing. What next - supermarket tabloids blaming aliens from beyond the stars? >From: Patrick Herron >Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org >To: Subject: FW: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? >Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:55:11 -0400 > >from a newsgroup... >____________________________________________________________________________ >___ > >Who Benefits from the World Trade Center/Pentagon Attacks? > >Who Benefits? That's always the first question to consider when a >"terrorist" >attack occurs. Instead of clenching one's fist, waving one's flag and >shouting >vindictive slogans, let's just stop for a moment of calm analysis of the >basic >facts. When we analyze who benefits, we immediately will know with over 99% >surety, who did it! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:48:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: HOW2 on the situation(s) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed For another set of conversations about all these things --- see the How2 postcard section -- >Its web address is: How2 >http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2 >There is a LINK on the Home Page to "postcard". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:38:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: walterblue Subject: GOOFBOOK by Philip Whalen (NEW) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Big Bridge Press announces publication of Philip Whalen's GOOFBOOK for = Jack Kerouac. =20 Written in 1961, Whalen says, GOOFBOOK is: "A book for Jack, saying = whatever I want to say..."=20 Edited by Michael Rothenberg Cover photo: Philip Whalen and Jack Kerouac by Walter Lehrman.=20 Paperback. 34pp.=20 Order from: Big Bridge Press 2000 Highway 1 Pacifica, CA 94044 Checks payable to Big Bridge Press-- 11 dollars plus 3.50 postage.=20 ISBN: 1-878471-07-4.=20 Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge http://www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 12:47:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: halloween... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" to follow-up a bit on my earlier post (and in light of backchannel developments that would seem to confirm, again, the presence hereabouts of any number of aliased identities---who again, would seek to upset any more civil deliberations, and i'll set aside the theoretical at the moment): we're closing in on halloween, as i just posted one subscriber backchannel, so maybe it would be appropriate if we all flocked over to hotmail etc., and set up accounts to establish pseudo/heteronyms, and amplified (or is it neutralized?) the little tactics of the self-elected few around here by pretending to be any number of whoevers?... by way of terrifying the bejeezus out of one another?... or?... that way, ysee, the poetix list subscription would jump to maybe, oh, 4 or 5000, no doubt eating up considerable processing/moderating power (that's machine and human power, assuming we posted 4 or 5 x more)... and we could play out the contours of this little, uhm, utopia by titillating one another with how good we are at pretending to be who we are not, or who we would wish to be, or whoever... all courtesy of the alphabet... really, it's not hard, happens every day on any number of moo's (etc.)... or maybe those interested ought to migrate to moo-space?... hmmm... any takers?... after which (i assume the novelty would wear off in relatively short order, but who knows?), we could get back to the difficulties we're all experiencing in living our lives in a violent world?... or do any of you think putting on others by deploying personae? or is it role-playing? or is it passing? (or is it upsetting the evil suny/buffalo empire, who brings us this list?) might help us navigate those difficulties?... i mean, theater is one thing, gaming is another, and passing quite another?... is passing something that we need at this moment in social-cultural time?... will this make us better people?... is this pertinent?... are any of you actors?... is there a difference?... is this really what e.g. pessoa imagined?... or is this beyond his wildest dreams?... what's at stake here?... more fluid identities?... or more deception (self-deception included)?... or both?... uh-oh, there i go, getting hypothetical, the first step toward the theoretical... so anyway, what about it?... shall we proceed now together to the next generation?... as i say, it probably won't last too awful long... and when we get this out of our systemS, maybe we can figure out what's really important, urgent, necessary... or is it already OUT of our systems?... xxxx, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:26:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcement of Readings by Bruce Andrews Jeanne Lambert Harriet Zinnes on Saturday, at 3:00 pm, October 27 at the Ear Inn 326 Spring Street New York City ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:13:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Upcoming Events Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit REGISTRATION FOR FALL WRITING WORKSHOPS: To register for one of the three writing workshops beginning the week of October 15th, please send a check in the amount of $250 and a note indicating your name, address, telephone number and workshop you'd like to attend. Those interested in Patricia Spears Jones's workshop should submit a 10-page writing sample. You may also register in person at the Poetry Project on weekdays 11 AM to 5 PM. For further information please call 212-674-0910 or visit our website at www.poetryproject.com. 5 THE NEW TRADITIONALISTS COMPOSITIONAL AND IMPROVISATIONAL MUSIC The New Traditionals Compositional and Improvisational Music. Contemporary folk-pop and progressive instrumentalists, solos and duets, featuring saxophonist MARLON ARIOLA with drummer RYAN SAWYER, clarinetist PATRICK HOLMES with violist DYLAN WILLESMA, and songwriter/ guitarist/ vocalist THEO EASTWIND. Each musician is in pursuit of a personally defined mode of expression that represents and transcends the preeminent styles of the instrument based on Modern American Music. This is a night of acoustic music, St. Mark's "unplugged" as it were. A pared-down evening of progressive jazz hybrids and sing-along American folk-rock. Everybody's chops have been honed religiously in the streets and subway tunnels of NYC. [10:30 P.M.] 8 AARON KUNIN AND CORT DAY AARON KUNIN teaches film, curates the Mellon Poetry Seminar at Johns Hopkins and is currently at work on a Ph.D. in the English department at Duke University, where he specializes in the Renaissance. His poems have appeared in The Germ, Jubilat, and Pierogi Press. Kunin's experimental fiction explores the interior design of ideas while his poetry blurs the boundaries between translation and creation. CORT DAY's work has appeared in numerous journals, including American Letters and Commentary, Boston Review, Colorado Review, Fence, and Verse. His first collection of poems, The Chime, was published by Alice James Books earlier this year. "... Cort Day has produced a work of transgressive imaginings, calls and responses, chimes and echoes. It is a work by turns, humorous and darkly erotic, where the ships of reason burn on an ocean tuned to an open frequency." -Michael Palmer [8:00 P.M.] 10 FANNY HOWE AND KIMBERLY LYONS FANNY HOWE, poet and novelist, teaches at the University of California San Diego. She is the author of numerous publications including The Quietist, Saving History, Deep North, The End, One Crossed Out, Nod, and Forged. Her most recent collection of poetry, Selected Poems, is just out from the University of California Press and her most recent novel, Indivisible, is published by Semiotext(e). Rain Taxi calls her "one of contemporary America's most innovative poets" and states that "her work deserves wider recognition and readership." And the Chicago Review instructs "...the intrigued reader has no excuse: get your hands on one of [Howe's] books, and get cracking." KIMBERLY LYONS is the author of Abracadabra (Granary Books, 2000). Mark Wallace wrote in Rain Taxi (online): "The work has an understated precision of detail, as well as meditative subtlety." Lewis Warsh said of Abracadabra, "a real opening, a step onwards." Her work was recently translated into French for the inaugural issue of Double Change (www.doublechange.com), a French/English online literary magazine. She has been anthologized in An Anthology of New (American) Poets (Talisman House), and The Portable Boog Reader (Booglit)[8:00 P.M.] 12 CELEBRATING GERTRUDE STEIN The Friday Night Series presents Part I of CELEBRATING GERTRUDE STEIN organized by BEVYA ROSTEN. Poets and performers will present works by Stein and works of their own that were influenced by her. Participants include dancer SALLY SILVERS, poet BRUCE ANDREWS, playwright/ director IRENE FORNES, ANNE-MARIE LEVINE, and surprise guests. Come celebrate Stein! (Part II and Part III will be held at the Judson Church on October 13 and 14.) [10:30 P.M.] 13 A BOOK PARTY FOR ELIO SCHNEEMAN'S A FOUND LIFE Poet-friends of Schneeman's will read from the posthumous collection. A reception will follow. [6:30-8:30 P.M.] FREE THE POETRY PROJECT is located in St. Mark's Church, 2nd Ave. & 10th St. in Manhattan. Programs subject to change. Unless otherwise noted, admission to events is $7 general, $4 students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:29:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Any group of people and anywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = Any group of people and anywhere The people who died in the World Trade Center attack were all good people and went to Heaven. They died but did not suffer. They died because Jesus Christ called them to Heaven. They went to Paradise as proclaimed in the Holy Books. They are attended by many servants. They play harps. They are among the blessed. The people who died in the World Trade Center attack did not receive final rites. They will wander the world forever. They will wander until they are reborn. They are suffering without extreme unctions. Whether they are good or bad, they are suffering and suffering. They are in Purgatory. They are reborn as mendicants. They are hungry ghosts. They are red dust. The people who died in the World Trade Center attack were evil. They deserved to die. They were infidels. They were capitalists. They were unbelievers. They will go to Hell forever. They are permanently dead. They are reborn as vermin. They howl forever because of their terrible deeds. The people who died in the World Trade Center attack were neither good nor evil. They were like any of us. They died because they happened to be there. There is no god and there is no order in the world. They will not be reborn. They are gone forever. They are not in heaven or hell. They have no souls and nothing will remain of them. The people who died in the World Trade Center attack died because of the unborn which we are killing in unprecedented numbers. They died because of gay rights and feminists. They died because the liberals have let this country go too soft. They died because there are too many people here who aren't patriotic. They died because this country is Godless. The people who died in the World Trade Center attack were fated to die there. It was their destiny and has nothing to do with their ethics. They died because they had to die. Perhaps they are reborn and perhaps they are in heavens or hells. They died because it was their fate. The people who died in the World Trade Center attack died for something. They died for freedom or something else. They did not die in vain. They died for some future goal. They died for some future good. We do not know why they died. It is not for us to know. The people who died in the World Trade Center attack died for reasons known to God. God is good and powerful. God would never do wrong. We cannot question God or His ways. We cannot hope to understand Him. We can only hope to live within His Grace. The people who died in the World Trade Center attack just died. There is no reason for it. Reason has nothing to do with it. The people died because of history and politics. The people died because of a madman's psychosis. They died because of a clash of civilizations. They died because of paranoid behavior. The people who died in the World Trade Center attack died at the hands of a cult. They died because of one man. They died because of a conspiracy. They died because of rogue nations. They died because other people wanted to destroy the World Trade Center and everything it stoods for. They died because other people wanted us to suffer. They died because other people wanted them to suffer. There is no reason for anything. Causes are broken causes. At the limit of understanding, understanding disinvests. At the limit of understanding, the concept of understanding itself is annihilated. It is not incompre- hensible; it escapes comprehension. It is part of the substance of the world. We are all part of the world's substance and the word's substance. We cannot reside at the limit. We construct. Everyone has narratives which help them survive. The trajectory of the narrative has nothing to do with the inertness of the world. With the World Trade Center attack, we have come face to face with this inertness. It is as if inertness speaks. Its mouth is filled with dust. It is incomprehensible. Its mouth is filled with dust. === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:02:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christina Milletti Subject: Fear of Thinking (article--link) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?tf=tgam/common/F ullStory.html&cf=tgam/common/FullStory.cfg&configFileLoc=tgam/config& date=20011005&dateOffset=&hub=columnists&title=Columnists& cache_key=columnistsNational¤t_row=1&start_row=1&num_rows=1 THE GLOBE AND MAIL, Friday, October 5, 2001 ? Page A17 COMMENT The fear of thinking By RICK SALUTIN If truth is the first casualty in war, I guess we can now say humour is the second. Poor Bill Maher of Politically Incorrect continues to be pilloried in the U.S., from the White House down, for bravely raising questions on what cowardice and bravery are. Jay Leno, David Letterman and Saturday Night Live agonize over how hard it is to be funny in times like these, and do they dare? Up here, Rick Mercer withdrew his Gemini nomination for his hilarious interviews with Americans -- at exactly the time when pointing out general ignorance in the U.S. about the rest of the world would be a public service. On the upside, Frank magazine has not shirked its duty to deal with the grim realities, nor has the American humour mag The Onion ("Hugging up 76,000%"; "U.S urges bin Laden to form nation it can attack"). Many of us tend to associate funny with smart and, on that basis, I nominate as the third casualty thought itself, especially when it's sharp and critical. Listen to this call not to think from the National Post: "If we are to be a reliable partner . . . our ruling caste must disabuse itself of the fallacy that to be a good Canadian, one must be skeptical or even hostile to America." Must not be skeptical -- when thinking about a crucial national issue? Yet I'd say it's a widespread sentiment, judging by reader mail. Beyond the usual thoughtful disagreements, I'm hearing a new note that says not You're dead wrong, but How dare you even raise these questions? It's as if a set of official propositions has been laid down: We are good. They are evil. It's a war. Only one side can survive. No other factors or analysis apply. Those who don't accept these propositions are fools or worse. Anyone skeptical about these articles of faith, better watch it. I'm not saying the mood is universal -- happily it isn't -- but it's out there. I asked a friend from a Catholic background why this mood has taken hold. She said it's obviously a religious response of a primitive or fundamentalist type. People who feel panic, fear or terror often seize on simple beliefs and cling to them. Beliefs are potent, yet they are precarious -- precisely because they are often held either without or despite any evidence. Those who hold them don't want to hear questions or doubts, because it will shake that tenuous security. This doesn't just happen with religion, nor is this the only form religion takes; rather, it's about the role played by simplistic beliefs at harsh moments. Thought is the enemy of other forms of simplistic belief, too, such as racial or cultural generalizations. So it's not surprising that the latter tend to re-emerge in times like these. Robert Fulford wrote that "Muslims show a greater propensity for war than any of the other disputatious civilizations now competing." A propensity for war? Among 1.3 billion different people? Margaret Wente said, "Anti-Semitism is so entrenched throughout the Muslim world that no peace settlement will ever quench it." Ever? Aside from the past 50 years, the record of the Muslim world on Jews is probably far better than the Christian one. A National Post editorial found it "hard to get worked up about the occasional slur" at Muslims and "something offensive about the tear-drenched press releases issued by North American Muslim organizations." Presumably, it's less hard if your daily routines, such as driving your cab or going shopping, have become easier to abandon than to carry through. Thought is also the enemy of radical terror, like suicide bombings. Think about the five-page letter apparently found among hijacker Mohammed Atta's belongings, a dual checklist of practical measures ("check out your weapon") and ways to ward off doubt ("remember: it is a raid for the sake of Allah"). Shakespeare dealt a lot with this function of thought. Macbeth and Hamlet have disabling doubts not before they decide to act violently but between then and the deed. T. S. Eliot wrote, "Between the idea/ And the reality/ Between the motion/ And the act/ Falls the Shadow." Recently, journalist Andrea Curtiss spoke sadly about what she sees as the best -case scenario for the fix we're in. That's when the Bush government, despite mirroring the rhetoric of their foe (Good versus Evil etc.) acts coolly, as they're doing, and avoids the descent into devastation (massive retaliation followed by more terror followed by . . .). But the price we pay is vast restriction of our freedoms and suppression of debate, in the name of the war against terror. The critique of globalization gets cut off, for instance, and so do Bill Maher's wry cracks. Neither has anything to do with terror, but it's almost impossible for those in power to resist the chance to stifle protest and advance their agenda. It's the Cold War all over again, when "anti-communism" was used to shut down almost all opposition, at home and abroad. What can we do except: Keep thinking, keep doubting, grit your teeth and laugh right through them. rsalutin@globeandmail.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:11:43 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Arundhati Roy on the coming war - "The Algebra of Infinite Justice" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit re: "anti-US territory" Aaron - Why are people who dissent from certain aggressive policies of the US Government invariably labeled as "anti-US"? To go to logical extremes to make my point: can one not be pro-US AND be (dare I say) an enemy of the US government at the same time? Is the US merely the US Government? Or is there much more to the US than its quite mutable government? Thanks, Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Aaron Belz > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 4:22 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Arundhati Roy on the coming war - "The Algebra of Infinite > J ustice" > > > Wystan wrote: > > > Now, I wonder how long > > this level of engagement will continue and what it will be like when it > > eases off, when it will tell me nothing new, or nothing that > interests me, > > and begin to annoy and distress. I am prompted > > to wonder this after reading the forwarded article below. > > > I agree that the Arudhata Roy article was annoying. It covered > all the same > anti-US territory, though at great length and with a novelist's flair (and > imagination!) So I'm sensitive to not wanting to beat a dead whatever, > but... > > In light of Lawrence Upton's proposed "solution" of dumping food and money > into the laps of Afghan peasants, I thought the following was an > interesting > tidbit from today's news. (Surely one of my more worldly-wise colleagues > will explain the arrogant nationalism behind this move.) > > > + + + + + + + > > President Bush announced $320 million in aid to alleviate a burgeoning > refugee problem in Afghanistan. > > "This is our way of saying that while we strongly and firmly oppose the > Taliban regime we are friends with the Afghan people," Bush said > > Pentagon officials said the military was drawing up plans to parachute > emergency food rations to thousands of displaced people in the landlocked > central Asian country. > > > [more at http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011004/ts/attack_dc_297.html] > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:26:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz wrote: < Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david antin Subject: The Situation of Women in Afghanistan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'm never sure how much use signing petitions is. But since so much of the discussion on the list lately has been related to terrorism and Afghanistan, I thought it would be relevant to forward this letter and petition relating to state terror against women under the present Taliban government. d.a. Subject: Afghanistan's War upon Women This is an actual petition, and "signatures" will be lost if you drop the line. I know this is too true and so dreadful. Please take 3 minutes out of your life to do your part. The government of Afghanistan, is waging a war upon women. Since the Taliban took power in 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have been beaten and stoned in public for not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having the mesh covering in front of their eyes. One woman was beaten to death by an angry mob of fundamentalists for accidentally exposing her arm(!) . Another was stoned to death for trying to leave the country with a man that was not a relative. Women are not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative; professional women such as professors, translators, doctors, lawyers, artists and writers have been forced from their jobs and restricted to their homes. Homes where a woman is present must have their windows painted so that she can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so that they are never heard. Women live in fear of their lives for the slightest misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those without male relatives or husbands are either starving to death or begging the street, even if they hold Ph.D.s. Depression is becoming so widespread that it has reached emergency levels. There is no way in such an extreme Islamic society to know the suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers are estimating that the suicide rate among women must be extraordinarily high: those who cannot find proper medication and treatment for severe depression and would rather take their lives than live in such conditions. At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their burqua, unwilling to speak, eat, or do anything, but slowly wasting away. Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, perpetually rocking or crying, most of them in fear. When what little medication that is left finally runs out, one doctor is considering leaving these women in front of the president's residence as a form of prot!est. It is at the point where the term "human rights violations" has become an understatement. Husbands have the power of life and death over their women relatives, epecially their wives, but an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of flesh or offending them in the slightest way. Women enjoyed relative freedom: to work, to dress generally as they wanted, and to drive and appear in public alone until only 1996. The rapidity of this transition is the main reason for the depression and suicide; Women who were once educators or doctors or simply used to basic human freedoms are now severely restricted and treated as subhuman in the name of right-wing fundamentalist Islam. It is not their tradition or 'culture,' but it is alien to them, and it is extreme even for those cultures where fundamentalism is the rule. Everyone has a right to a tolerable human existence, even if they are women in a Muslim country. If we can threaten military force in Kosovo the in name of human rights for the sake of ethnic Albanians, citizens of the world can certainly express peaceful outrage at the oppression, murder and injustice committed against women by the Taliban. STATEMENT: In signing this, we agree that the current treatment of women in Afghanistan is completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves action by the United Nations and that the current situation overseas will not be tolerated. Women's Rights is not a small issue anywhere, and it is UNACCEPTABLE for women in 2001 to be treated as subhuman and as so much property. Equality and human decency is a fundamental RIGHT, not a freedom to be granted, whether one lives in Afghanistan or elsewhere. Please scroll to the end of this list to sign your name. Read the brief instruction below the names. 1) Giuliana D. Black, Daly City,CA,USA 2) Mariam Nayiny, Palo Alto,CA,USA 3) Sunaina Gulati-Ruh, Palo Alto,CA,USA 4) Megan McCaslin, Palo Alto,CA,USA 5) Blake Hallanan, San Francisco,CA,USA 6) Kit Henderson, Sacramento,CA,USA 7) Sara Myers, San Francisco,CA,USA > 8) Ellen Tilden, San Fransisco,CA,USA > 9) Vanessa Ross, San Francisco,CA,USA > 10) Jenna Shaw- Battista, San Francisco,CA,USA > 11) Jeanne Racik, Berkeley,CA,USA > 12) Julie Silas, Oakland,CA,USA > 13) Renee Longstreet, Tarzana,CA,USA > 14) Susan Johnson, Encino,CA,USA > 15) Kenneth Johnson, Encino,CA,USA > 16) Terri Treas, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 17) Amy Retzinger, North Hollywood,CA,USA > 18) Babette Crooms, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 19) Olivia Kienzel; Santa Barbara,CA,USA > 20) Sean Dexheimer, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 21) Elio Chavez, Jr., Pasadena,CA,USA > 22) Gregory Kastigar, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 23) Robert Collie, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 24) Jeff Garvin, Brea,CA,USA > 25) Tricia Allen, Sherman Oaks,CA,USA > 26) Joleen Nordstrom, Hollywood,CA,USA > 27) Theresa Donahoe, Martinez,CA,USA > 28) Jennifer Horn, Concord,CA,USA > 29) Roxanne Ryan, Alamo,CA,USA > 30) Miriam Tyler, San Jose,CA,USA > 31) John Burns, San Jose,CA,USA > 32) Kristin Lynn Minick, Fort Worth,TX,USA > 33) Jeff Neal, Marietta,GA,USA > 34) Anna Neal, Marietta, GA,USA > 35) Frances Murley-Fort Worth,TX,USA > 36) David Murley-London,England,UNITED KINGDOM > 37) Jillian Dykhouse, Colleyville,TX,USA > !38) Bonnie Dykhouse,Colleyville,TX,USA > 39) Nancy Williams, Colleyville,TX,USA > 40) Georgene Farr, Sterling Heights,MI,USA > 41) Joanne Arensberg, Riverview,MI,USA > 42) Luann Ouellette, Vermillion,SD,USA > 43) Sandie Sullivan, Vermillion,SD,USA > 44) Troy Nelson, Minneapolis,MN,USA > 45) Joseph Miller, Minnepolis,MN,USA > 46) Kathleen Miller, White Bear Lake,MN,USA > 47) Jerry Marquis, Mpls.,MN,USA > 48) Julie Stokes, Coon Rapids,MN ,USA > 49) Tracy Ford, Blaine,MN,USA > 50) Sheila Lawrence, Monticello,MN,USA > 51) Brenda Kitchen, Westlake Village,CA,USA > 52) Teresa Burke, Sherman Oaks,CA,USA > 53) Bruce Ehrlich, Sherman Oaks,CA,USA 54) Yllania Francis, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 55) Drew Hedin, Los Angeles,CA,USA 56) Laura Paridon, Laguna Woods,CA,USA > 57) Jeanie Hagedorn, Des Moines,IA,USA > 58) Sue Christensen, Des Moines,IA,USA 59) Sybil Finken, Glenwood,IA,USA > 60) Luke Finken, Earth > 61) Doug Gerace, Lincoln,NE,USA > 62) Cheryl Gerace,NE,USA > 63) Sheri Lew,CO,USA > 64) Raven Grace,Boulder,CO,USA > 65) Martha M.Mertz,EL,MI,USA > 66) Colleen R. Cooper,Okemos,MI,USA > 67) Barbara J. Sawyer-Koch, East Lansing,MI,USA 68) Margaret A. Meyers, Okemos,MI,USA > 69) Mary Helen Espes, Okemos,MI,USA 70) Maureen Kirchhoff, Allenspark,CO,USA > 71) Bart Johnson, Err, FRANCE > 72) Sharon O'Connor, Olympia,WA,USA > 73) Nancy Irving, Tbilisi, REPUBLIC OF GEORGIA > 74) Martha Lindley, Seattle,WA,USA > 75) Judith Alexander, Woodinville,WA,USA > 76) Arlene B. Hawkinson, Seattle,WA,USA > 77) Christine E. Mobley, Bothell,WA,USA > 78) Trudie Breen,CA,USA > 79) Catherine Standiford,CA,USA > 80) Beverly Truett,AZ,USA > 81) Christine Meehan,AZ,USA > 82) Janice Gilbert, Valley Center,CA,USA > 83) Dawna Upchurch, Anchorage,AK,USA > 84) Roxanna Groves, Olympia,WA,USA 85) Lynda Lynde, Helena,MT,USA > 86) Constance Gelu, University Place,WA,USA > 87) Jodi Woolett, Tacoma,WA,USA > 88) Lisa I. Reeves- Lynden,WA,USA > 89) Amanda James-Bow,WA,USA > 90) Kelli J. Smith, New Port Richey,FL,USA > 91) Chris Poirier, Largo,FL,USA > 92) Mike Carpenter, Palmetto,FL,USA > 93) Alice Pryor, Melbourne,FL,USA > 94) Ellen Catano, Manchester,NH,USA 95) Bevely Jennings, Cincinnati,OH,USA > 96) Linda Feely, Norwood,OH,USA > 97) Sherry Stidham, Norwood,OH,USA > 98) Brittany Brown, Cincinnati,OH,USA 99) Sandy Brown, Cincinna ti,OH,USA > 100) Tim Brown, Cincinnati,OH,USA 101) Pat Brown, Cincinnati,OH,USA > 102) Amy Cregger, Memphis,TN,USA > 103) Kay Emerick, Logan,OH,USA > 104) Trina Bookman, Logan,OH,USA > 105) Mary Samuelson, St. Louis,MO,USA > 106) Jeannette Ward, Memphis,TN,USA > 107) Elisabeth Davis, Memphis,TN,USA > 108) Rose Klimek, Memphis,TN,USA > 109) Barbara K. White, Hoquiam,WA,USA > 110) Paula J. Eriksen, Palm Harbor,FL,USA > 111) Ragnar Eriksen, Palm Harbor,FL,USA > 112) Marilyn King, CLEARWATER,FL,USA > 113) Barbara Stiner,Oldsmar,FL,USA > 114) Jac'line Weisgerber,Clearwater,FL,USA 115) Charlotte Beadles, Douglasville, GA,USA > 116) Jody Hoadley, Powder Springs,GA,USA > 117) Hope Howard, Atlanta,GA,USA > 118) Cliff Howard, Atlanta,GA USA > 119) Kay Chicoine, Atlanta,GA,USA > 120) Mark Chicoine, Atlanta,GA,USA > 121) Paula King, Lexington,KY,USA > 122) Sally Weissman,Minneapolis,MN,USA > 123) Susan Abbott, New Brighton,MN,USA > 124) Rachel Fine, St. Louis Park,MN,USA > 125) Deb Harley,Eden Prairie, MN,USA > 126) Barb Handahl,Faribault, MN,USA > 127) Ann Olson,Chamberlain,SD,USA > 128) Deb Hunt,Sioux Falls,SD,USA > 129) Anne Frankman, Sioux Falls,SD,USA > 130) Susie Kostel, Tabor,SD,USA > 131) Julie Anderson, Mount Prospect,IL,USA > 132) Janet Tilden, Fremont,NE,USA > 133) Debbie Bowman, Kingston Springs,TN,USA 134) Shari Watkins, Franklin,TN,USA > 135) Teresa Beck, Columbia,TN,USA > 136) Don Hill, Nashville,TN,USA > 137) Suzanne Supplee, Reistertown,MD,USA > 138) Mina Dillard-Gits, Agoura Hills,CA,USA > 139) Negrita Jayde, Venice,CA,USA 139) Gregory Hines, Venice,CA,USA > 140) Laurie Fierstein, New York,NY,USA > 141) Cecelia Casey, New York,NY,USA > 142) Shana Deane, New York,NY,USA > 143) Lynn Neal ,Newark,DE,USA > 144) Rosemary Lane, Bear,DE,USA > 145) Andrea Arena, Newark,DE,USA > 146) Rick Neidig, Wilmington,DE,USA > 147) Lisa Dill, Wilmington, DE, USA > 148) Donna Staring, Newark,DE,USA 149) V.C. Hernande z, Miami,FL, USA > 1 150) G.L. Gonzalez, Miami, FL, USA > 151) K. Casey, Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA > 152) A. Lewis, Dallas, TX, USA > 153) S. Shepard, Chicago, IL, USA > 154) K. Smith, Scottsdale, AZ, USA 155) C. McLeod, Leeds, England > 1 156) R.Blechner, Shaumburg, IL USA > 157) J. Blechner, Lake Geneva, WI USA > 158) H.Ruterschmidt,Ch!icago,IL,USA > 159) M. Ryczek, Park Ridge, IL USA > 160) L. Gotsch-Wenson, Mt. Prospect, IL USA > 161) B. Leon, Chicago, IL USA > 162) C. Domingo, Chicago, IL USA > 163) Fermin R. Domingo III, Round Lake Park, IL USA 164) Rachel Casarrubias, Round Lake Park, IL USA > 165) Cathy Graves, Maryland, USA > 166) Sandra Klein, Maryland, USA > 167) Beverly Rodgers, Florida, USA > 168) Monika Jones-Lyons, Tampa, Florida, USA > 169) Linda Mahy-Muller, Austin, Texas, USA > 170) Mollie Cook, Elgin, Texas, USA > 171) Lynn Van Blarcum, Edina, MN USA > 172) Andy Magnus, Fort Worth, TX, USA > 173) Jack H. Ablon, Lewisville, Texas USA > 174) Randy Myers, Dallas, Texas USA > 175) Mary Ann Golden, Austin, Texas USA > 176) Karen Boatright, Austin, Texas, USE > 177) Ruthie Oliver, Austin, Texas, USA > 178) Miriam Dell'Olio, Galveston Texas, USA > 179) Faith Ballinger, Humble, TX, USA > 180) Sandy Neuman, Dayton, TX USA > 181) Dale Davidson, Houston, TX USA 182) A. Smith, Eldon, MO USA > 183) Beth Blakeney, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada > 184) Tiffany McGovern, Halifax, Nova Scotia > 185) Carol Longue, Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia > 186) Kathy Malpage, Bedford, Nova Scotia 187) Gertie Wood, Lwr Sackville, Nova Scotia > 188) Trina McNamara, Halifax, Nova Scotia > 189) Joanne Parsons, Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia > 190) Susan Postma, kelowna,B.C. Canada > 191) Doris Bonn, Kelowna BC Canada > 192) Brandi Hughes, Kelowna BC Canada > 193) Jennifer Johnson, Marquette, MI, USA > 194) Tammie James, Spokane, WA USA > 195) Jodi Reimund, Spokane, WA USA > 196) San!die Ling, K ent, WA, USA > 197) Kay Mc Comb, Kent, WA, USA > 198) Judith J. Mores, Arlington, WA, USA > 199) Lee Femling, Newcastle, CA, USA > 200) Jean Femling, Costa Mesa, CA, USA > 201) Owen Riss, Colorado Springs, CO > 202) Ann Harjes, Colorado Springs, CO USA > 203) Joe y. toddy, Colorado Springs, CO USA 204) Jim Roies, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 205) John Lehman, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 206) Michelle Lehman, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 207) William Isaac Gilkison, Louisville, CO. USA 208) Jacob W. Whitlow, Westminster, CO. USA 209) Evan R. Crabb, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 210) Lindsay M. Varra, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 211) Dara L. Pacot, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 212) Leslie K. Shalosky, COlorado Springs, CO. USA 213) Patricia A Griffin, Sterling, CO. USA 214) Sara Schmillen, Sterling, CO. USA 215) Chris Schmillen, Security, CO, USA 216) Mary Vollborn Schmillen, Security, CO, USA 217) Betty May, Colorado Springs, CO USA 218) Paula Gibeault, Colorado Springs, CO USA 219) Debra Johnson, Colorado Springs, CO USA 220) Fran De Jarnette, Colorado Springs, CO USA 221) Maxine Stores, Colorado Springs, CO USA 222) Miosheque Moore, Tulsa, OK USA 223) Latasha Nias, New York, NY USA 224) Teresa Thomas, New York, NY USA 225) Elaine Walker, Attleboro, MA USA 226) Mary Cooke, Taunton, MA USA 227) Charlene Molina, Taunton, MA USA 228) Barbara Cooke, Taunton, MA USA 229) Karina Cooke, New York, NY USA 230) Kelly R. McVeigh, New York, NY USA 240) Christina G. Noriega, New York, NY USA 241) Candy Rodo, New York, NY USA 242) Saskia Rombouts, New York, NY USA 243) Katherine Gordon, New York, USA 244) Sara Shankland, ! Vero Beach, FL, USA 245) William Shankland, Vero Beach, FL, USA 246) Kristina Novickis, San Francisco, CA, USA 247) Liudyte Baker, Tucson, CA USA 248) Viki, Andreja, Lija and Liuci Siliunas, Chicago, IL USA 249) Louis Wenzlow, Baraboo WI USA 250) Kelly Dwyer, Baraboo WI USA 251) Victoria Zimmerman, Highland Park, IL 252) Jackie Lantz, Long Grove, IL 253) Catherine Heffernan, Buffalo Grove, IL USA 254) Patrick Heffernan, Buffalo Grove, IL USA 255) Sheila , Howey-in-the-Hills, Fl. USA 256) Kathryne Sutliff, Rhinelander, WI. USA 257)Margaret Johnson, Eagle River, WI USA 258)Nancy Schmidt, Rhinelander, WI USA 259) Robin Bolan, McLean, VA, USA 260) Elizabeth Webb, Pittsford, NY, USA 261) Kristen Frederickson, New York, NY, USA 262) Amy Schlegel, Philadelphia, PA, USA 263) Eleanor Antin, San Diego, California, USA 264) David Antin, San Diego, California, USA DIRECTIONS: 1.. PLEASE COPY this email on to a new message. 2.. Sign the bottom 3.. Forward it to everyone on your distribution lists. If you receive this list with more than 300 names on it, please e-mail a copy of it to: sarabande@brandeis.edu < May God(s) Bless the World (not just America) May God(s) Bless the World (not just America) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 16:23:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR Snow is a strange white word. No ice or frost Has asked of bud or bird For Winter's cost. Yet ice and frost and snow From earth to sky This Summer land doth know. No man knows why. In all men's hearts it is. Some spirit old Hath turned with malign kiss Our lives to mould. Red fangs have torn His face. God's blood is shed. He mourns from His lone place His children dead. O! ancient crimson curse! Corrode, consume. Give back this universe Its pristine bloom. Cape Town. 1914 Isaaac Rosenberg (1890-1918) [from The Collected Poems of Isaac Rosenberg: Edited by Gordon Bottomley & Denys Harding (1977), Chatto & Windus Ltd.] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:51:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Israel In-Reply-To: <005c01c14d31$04ad7f60$5d2337d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not so easy a question to answer. There is an enormous range of opinion among Jews both in and out of Israel. Since the intifada (the first one) more and more American Jews have felt alienated from Israeli policy. But what does being opposed to Israel mean? If the polls are to be believed most American Jews seem to feel that the West Bank and Gaza should be a Palestinean state sooner rather than later. Jerusalem is a tougher question, for all parties. In Israel itself it's not a matter of Jews not being totally united, they're totally divided. For years the Likud held on by very narrow margins. The one time there was what appeared to be a clear choice--land-for-peace, as it's termed, or continued occupation--Labor won (that's Rabin's election). Barak was a dicier choice, which makes Sharon's election equivocal data at best. As to "opposed to Israel" meaning "I just wish it would go away," few Jews take that position, seeing Israel as a solution to a problem that Europe and America were unwilling to deal with even before the holocaust. If a credible solution--one guaranteeing safety, citizenship and religious freedom--had been presented circa 1920, or even 1933, there would have been a lot fewer Zionists. I for one don't think that the creation of Israel was such a good idea--a viable diaspora would have worked. As it was, Stalin established a Jewish National Homeland on the shore of the Pacific in Siberia, Churchill proposed Uganda, and, at a time when Germany was still willing to solve its "Jewish Problem" by exporting it, almost no countries were willing to absorb more than a trickle. US immigration laws after 1921, remember, were engineered to keep the wretched masses out. Even at the time of the establishment of Israel in 1948 of the ultra ultra Orthodox, the Hasidim, only one sect recognized Israel. The others thought it best to wait for the mystical Israel to be founded when the messiah, the son of David, re-established the kingdom. Mark At 12:02 PM 10/5/2001 +1200, you wrote: >Arielle. They stole that idea from Radio Hauraki which was New Zealand's >first commecail or non Govt radio station. They broadcast off-shore from >Tiri Island and started to play some quite good music. Anyway it was good >and broke the mould of fusty old Government Radio. They were termed the >"Pirate Radio Station". They are quite good: if commercial radio stations >were a little less moronic I'd be very pleased but most commercial >broadcasting (and broadcasting in general) has declined in quality over >here...but at least we have a lot of freedom here (I know that there are >injustices and problems by and large - on the Big Balance Sheet I would go >for US and Western democracy (given someone put the "mock" in I) as the best >of a bad bunch for now). > But that radio station in Israel was a good example...trouble is this word >"feedom" it gets bandied around....truth..as Auden wrote: "All I have is >voice (pen?) to undo the folded lie." The Right Wing over there wouldnt >like to hear anything about peace....to be fair Israel (as far as I know) is >not totally united in its foreign policies and not all Jewish people are >Zionists. Are all Palestinians in anti-Israel? Are some quite unconcerned >and live elsewhere and get on with their life? Does anyone know of Jews who >either are nuetral to or are opposed to Israel or dissent and so on? After >all one can be a Christian and be opposed to the Crusades (which cynics >might say are still ongoing). The trouble is that there's always the >suspicion that Yeat's "The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of >passionate intensity." means that the heart fed on fantasy (and reality of a >kind) means some people "see red".....the whole things boils over: truth >dies valiantly, and Ed Dorn or his ilk croak dark mockingly over the the >unspirited plains...Richard. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arielle Greenberg" >To: >Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:08 AM >Subject: Re: Israel > > >> While yes, I would agree that some amount of dissent >> is allowed in Israel, I wanted to offer this one >> anecdote: when I lived there in 1987, I listened to a >> radio station which broadcast in English as "the Voice >> of Peace" and always said they were broadcasting "from >> somewhere in the Mediterranean." It was a kind of >> pirate radio station that was leftist and played >> hippie music and had arts programming, and was the >> alternative to the state-run radio station which had >> solider DJs. They had to broadcast from a boat that >> kept moving because the Israeli gov't was always >> trying to shut them down. I believe it doesn't exist >> at all anymore. Where is "the Voice of Peace" when >> you need it?! >> >> Arielle >> >> --- Robert Corbett wrote: >> > btw, the talk of Israeli as a "democracy" always is >> > bothersome to me, >> > since they still use laws on the books from the >> > Ottoman Empire to claim >> > settlements in Palestine. and when I say still, I >> > mean to this day. I am >> > sure there is legal mumbo jumbo that authorizes >> > this, but this is either >> > inexcusable, or it suggests that "Empire" is a >> > better way of >> > understanding the way the world works--literally. >> > democracy is always >> > "democracy for whom?". >> > >> > that said, apparently people in the West Bank and >> > Gaza, when asked to >> > compare, prefer Israeli democracy to the US. a >> > comment on its proximity, >> > certainly, but perhaps also on the relatively high >> > profile that dissent >> > has in that country...as opposed to ours, where for >> > all our sound and fury >> > about free speech, the reign of public shame muffles >> > the right and the >> > left. (though mostly the left, Drn!) >> > >> > Robert >> > >> > -- >> > Robert Corbett "I will discuss >> > perfidy with scholars as >> > rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning >> > kisses, I will sip >> > Department of English the marble marrow >> > of empire. I want sugar >> > University of Washington but I shall never >> > wear shame and if you >> > call that sophistry >> > then what is Love" >> > - >> > Lisa Robertson >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just >$8.95/month. >> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 20:29:09 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you joking, man? Yours is an entirely predictable reaction. Please also note that your reaction and the expected reactions of many others does not benefit me in the least. Not at all. Oh no wait, those inside stock shorts before the accident, they were all mine. I benefited indeed. I am now rich. Many of the stories in my post were from mainstream news sources that somehow are considered better than tabloids (guess again). I don't buy the bomb in the building theory at all. I think it's dumb and yeah, many of the things in the post are indeed dumb. I found much of it interesting, though--something I discovered on alt.soc.mayasia of all places. it at least gets people analyzing what they read, instead of nodding heads and kissing ass. Nodding heads and kissing ass is about what so many people have done around here. But one must always ask *cui bono*. Few in the brainwashed TV-addicted country known as the USA know how to ask any questions of what people tell them, much less "who benefits?" Fortunately that is much less true of the crew on this e-mail list. Nevertheless, so much of what I've heard here as of late contradicts my belief that people here are above possessing unexamined "favored truths." I mean, if Dan Rather thinks 911 was an act of war, well then, it MUST be. And heck, a person must be paranoid to ever consider that American tax dollars fund international criminals and criminal activities through the CIA, the DIA, the US Military, through front corporations, through the NSA. I mean, if you believe that money makes the world go round, and you believe there ARE smart people in these organizations, then you are straight out of a tabloid. C'mon pal. If a large number of people asked *cui bono*, it would benefit ALL of us. We might not be in the Orwellian quandary we are in now, with a fill-in-the-blank war and an enemy we were paying large sums of money right at least through 1999. Not that people care, after all, it seems only "America United" messages and flag waving matters anymore. *Telling* people to ask "who benefits", as opposed to merely asking it for myself, is an act of self-sacrifice in the current politically "united" (re: tolerate no dissent) climate. I lose, you win. I don't even win a moral victory. Zip. I lose. I look like an asshole. And you will look like a white knight in shining armor, guiding us to reputable sources like the New York times. Heh. Or, are you one who thinks that Judas somehow "benefited" in fulfilling Jesus' prophecy by sacrificing his very own ego and reputation? By the way, your e-mail address has the fnord number in it. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: robert saint [mailto:strobert23@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 8:09 AM > To: patrick@proximate.org > Subject: Re: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? > > > >From a newsgroup... > > Who benefits - how about Patrick Herron. The same type of things were > placed into circulation by the right wing militias after the > Oklahoma City > bombing. What next - supermarket tabloids blaming aliens from beyond the > stars? > > > >From: Patrick Herron > >Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: FW: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? > >Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:55:11 -0400 > > > >from a newsgroup... > >_________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > >___ > > > >Who Benefits from the World Trade Center/Pentagon Attacks? > > > >Who Benefits? That's always the first question to consider when a > >"terrorist" > >attack occurs. Instead of clenching one's fist, waving one's flag and > >shouting > >vindictive slogans, let's just stop for a moment of calm analysis of the > >basic > >facts. When we analyze who benefits, we immediately will know > with over 99% > >surety, who did it! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:58:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: Re: Welcome, Miguel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed For those of you in the Bay Area on that date, Saturday December 1 Small Press Traffic will host a panel of translators (and a reading of translated work) including Jen Hofer whose book of translations of contemporary Mexican poets is due out from the U of Alabama Press, next year I believe. Norma Cole will be the moderator and the other panelists are Pierre Joris, Walter Lew, and Diane Weipert. (Reading from, respectively, their translations of work from N. Africa, Korea, and Cuba). If you want an email announcement closer to the event please email me at work (smallpress@ccac-art.edu). ps Duration Press rocks as does Jerrold Shiroma who lovingly translated a fabulous poem by Marc Cholodenko for our Euro SF poetry festival last spring. pps Thank you Kevin Killian for your lucid and kind reply to Gary Sullivan's Ugh post. If Gary is really giving up on the list, I will be sad and sorely miss his posts. His "last few days" post was really key for me in understanding these events. ppps Arielle Greenberg rocks. pppps Chris Alexander rocks in a really, really hard job. Elizabeth Treadwell "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:24:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I also think of the dear Afghani-American young women I had in my classes when I was teaching comp around the Bay Area. Two of them (twins) brought up a video their uncle (who still lives in Afghanistan) had sent the family of a neighbor man being killed, in a slow and symbolic way, for having shaved his beard. All these young women, or most of them, came to school wearing their scarves, and either tight jeans or minis. I figured they changed after leaving home in the a.m. Elizabeth Treadwell "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:58:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: collateral damage Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, poetryetc@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I usually cross the border into Tijuana at least once a week and return late at night the same day. This time it's been a month. Generally I drive in, but the delays returning by car are as much as 4 hours, depending upon the time of day. Even after 11 pm, when normally it takes about 20 minutes to cross, delays have been 45 minutes to an hour. San Diego and Tijuana are one economic unit. Large numbers of Mexicans cross the border daily to work in the US, others cross to shop. These are almost all legal crossings. The illegals in general cross elsewhere--to cross here you need papers, and phoney papers are very expensive. Families often straddle the border, and members of the middle class often have homes on both sides. The same, to a lesser degree, is true of gringos--some live in the US and work in Mexico, and increasingly gringos live in Mexico and cross the line to work. Avenida Revolution in Tijuana and the streets around it are devoted to the care and feeding of tourists from San Diego. I walked several blocks up the avenue. It was a ghost town. Rock music still blared from the balconies of the 2nd story clubs, but there were no customers drinking margaritas. The stores selling leathergoods or low-quality handicrafts or pharmaceuticals were empty. Even the women and children from the far south of Mexico who normally beg or sell chiclets were gone. Each of these businesses support, more or less, a dozen people. No one except the owners has any reserve. The owners, many of them, have a pretty tenuous grip on their middle class status, and commercial rents in the tourist district are high. There is no unemployment insurance. I got a lift back to the US side at 2 am, so my plan to avoid the line and walk across came to naught. We waited only 45 minutes. Of the 24 lanes only 4 were open--the wee hours are short-shifted. In the other 20 lanes dark, silent cars were lined up dozens deep. Their owners were sleeping in the back seats, waiting for the lanes to open at 4. Otherwise, they would have to count on 4 hours to get across, which for many of them would mean loss of jobs. The reason the lines are slow is because the border guards are scrutinizing the crossers more carefully. At the best of times, even with the sniffing dogs constantly on the prowl, our government guesses that it detects 10% of contraband, whether drugs, Cuban cigars, guns or illegals armed with forged documents. No one else thinks the batting average is that good. And no one seems to think it's improved. But almost all the cars are having their trunks searched, and the eyeballing is more intense. One of the problems with this approach is pretty obvious. A great many Mexicans could pass for arabs in Cairo--the arab population of medieval Spain was pretty active. My friend Eduardo Arellano has a reading on this side in two weeks. He's thinking of shaving his beard to cross the border. Another cost. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:15:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Arundhati Roy on the coming war - "The Algebra of Infinite Justice" In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT P. Herron penned: > Aaron - > > Why are people who dissent from certain aggressive policies of the US > Government invariably labeled as "anti-US"? Judging from Arundhata Roy's rhetoric, I don't think she was dissenting from USGov policies exclusively; she was speaking out against broader national arrogance. Viz: "the world's most powerful country, reaching reflexively, angrily, for an old instinct to fight a new kind of war." And: "Someone recently said that if Osama bin Laden didn't exist, America would have had to invent him." So I mean "U.S." in the sense that Ms. Roy means "America." -Aaron P.S. Being Indian, she can't really "dissent", however, she can only object from the outside, right? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 00:18:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: thinking with the mind of the enemy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = thinking with the mind of the enemy $ who is bin_Laden sondheim ttyqf Oct 6 00:10 $ who is Atta sondheim ttyqf Oct 6 00:10 $ who am I sondheim ttyqf Oct 6 00:10 $ who are you sondheim ttyqf Oct 6 00:10 $ where am i /usr/local/bin/ksh: where: not found $ cd .. $ where am I bin_Laden /usr/local/bin/ksh: where: not found $ bin_Laden /usr/local/bin/ksh: bin_Laden: not found $ who is bin_Laden sondheim ttyqf Oct 6 00:11 $ I am bin_Laden /usr/local/bin/ksh: I: not found $ I am not found /usr/local/bin/ksh: I: not found $ bin_Laden this is just a test but you should know that I will find you and kill you and you can do nothing to stop me. $ bin_Laden this is a warning but it does not matter what you do because I will kill you even if you apologize or run and hide because I am now your terror and your Armageddon and I am your slayer. $ bin_Laden know this that I am your slayer for I shall have infinite retribution against you and your followers who wreak havoc upon the waste lands of this earth and wreak havoc upon the gates of paradise. $ bin_Laden you are my verb of the object of just murder. $ bin_Laden on Oct 6 2001 you have no time left. $ kill -9 0 = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:28:00 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: geraldine mckenzie Subject: Re: Orwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I've tried to track down the quotation from Orwell without much luck, I suspect it's a garbled version and quoted out of a context which is crucial in understanding what he was getting at. What I did find were 2 references to Pacifism that didn't gel with the "proto-Fascist". In Inside the Whale Orwell describes pacifism as "a tenable position, and at this moment an honourable one, but probably in the long run involving the rejection of socialism." This was published in 1940. He also writes briefly about it in Looking back on the Civil War in Homage to Catalonia (1943) I'll quote a largeish section because I think context is important (and I'll say more on that later) - "Let Fascism, or possibly even a combination of several Fascisms, conquer the whole world...We in England underrate the danger of this kind of thing, because our traditions and our past security have given us a sentimental belief that it all comes right in the end and the thing you most fear never really happens. Nourished for hundreds of years on a literature in which Right invariably triumphs in the last chapter, we believe half-instinctively that evil always defeats itself in the long run. Pacifism, for instance, is founded largely on this belief. Don't resist evil, and it will somehow destroy itself. But why should it? What evidence is there that it does?" The first quotation indicates that Orwell respects the idea of pacifism without endorsing it, the second provides the all-important context within which anything critical he writes about pacifism should be understood - namely Europe in the 30's and 40's, not only formative for Orwell but, as he died in 1950, definitive also. Writing about the Spanish Civil War as both participant and observer and doing so in 1943, in the middle of the second World War, his critique of pacifism, such as it is, is legitimate. Could Fascism have been overthrown by anything but military force? I don't see how (I'm taking it for granted, of course, that it should be stopped). Orwell is no militarist, war "degrades", it is an "evil" and his general tone is the horror that comes from experience but, in some situations, he sees it as necessary. I very much doubt that the present situation would be one. More on context: When Orwell writes on pacifism it is rather in passing, and to quote such a section and ignore his much more strenuous opposition to fascism/Stalinism is thoroughly misleading. Further, when he criticises the left or the intelligentsia, which he does regularly, he is not speaking of the left in any abstract sense i.e. a philosophical position but of a particular group of people at a particular point in time, a group whose agility was severely tested by having to keep up with the permutations of Stalin's foreign policy in the '30's. Am I being pedantic? I've liked Orwell's work ever since I was a teenager, the essays and nonfiction more than the novels (a digression - when I and my friends - 15yr. old Catholic schoolgirls circa '69/'70 - were reading 1984, one of the attractions was the sex scene - I know that sounds ludicrous now but that was Australia back then) I like/respect his passion (but that's not enough) his committment to the under-privileged (although that's not his word) and to the truth, and I know that's a problematic word - I prefer truthfulness but his honesty is surely one of his most attractive/valuable qualities as a writer/human. I don't think it's necessary to agree with everything he says although many of his insights - re-read Politics and the English Language - are as pertinent now as when written - but how can anyone suggest that he was anything but a dedicated opponent of oppression wherever he found it, and an acute analyst of the abuse of power. Patrick, I generally like your posts, agree with many of them, but my kids will tell you that "Totalitarians need Orwell" really got to me. Maybe it's a failure of imagination on my part but I can't even see where this is coming from, Orwell is so anti-ideology, anti-orthodoxy and so pro-liberty/thought/creativity/expression - I'm baffled. Btw his argument that modern English prose, especially political writing, "consists less and less of WORDS chosen for the sake of their meaning, and more and more of PHRASES ..." and the ensuing analsis of the way language is used to avoid thought seems exactly the sort of thing we could all agree with. I feel dissatisfied with the above, as though I haven't done Orwell justice, or communicated what I feel/think (well, that's not so important) - go and read some of his essays and see what you think then (written not in the spirit of making some terrific point but - I give up, it's spring here in Australia and you know that makes a difference) Geraldine >> > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:32:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG Collective reading, Saturday Oct 13 7pm, Living Community Center MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit for immediate release POG presents Members of the POG Collective Saturday, October 13, 7pm Living Community Center, 330 E. Seventh Street Admission: $5; Students $3 Readers will include Samuel Ace Charles Alexander Jefferson Carter Andrew Foster Maggie Golston Elizabeth Landry Rachel McCrystal Heather Nagami Tenney Nathanson Tim Peterson Frances Shoberg Jonathan Vanballenberghe POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council and the Arizona Commission on the Arts POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Extended University Writing Works Center, The University of Arizona Department of English, The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, and Chax Press. for further information contact POG: 296-6416 www.gopog.org mailto:pog@gopog.org Samuel Ace (formerly L. Smukler) is a the author of two collections of poetry: Normal Sex (Firebrand Books) and Home in three days. Don’t wash., a book and multi-media project with accompanying cd-rom (Hard Press). His work has been widely anthologized, and he is the recipient of numerous awards in poetry and fiction including the 1997 Firecracker Alternative Book Award in Poetry. He has received fellowships in poetry from the New York Foundation for the Arts and the Astraea Foundation. Charles Alexander: poet, maker of books. Directs Chax Press. Books include Hopeful Buildings (Chax Press), arc of light/dark matter (Segue Books), Pushing Water (Standing Stones Press), Four Ninety Eight to Seven (Meow Press), A Book of Hours (5 & Dime Press), Etudes: D & D (Quarry Press), and the forthcoming Near or Random Acts (Wild Honey Press). He edited Talking the Boundless Book: Art, Language, and the Book Arts. Has taught in recent times at University of Arizona (Extended University), Pima Community College, and Naropa University. Jefferson Carter is Writing Department chair at Pima Community College, the Downtown Campus. He’s had work in e-zines like as CrossConnect and journals such as Barrow Street and Carolina Quarterly. His chapbook Tough Love won the 1993 Riverstone Poetry Press Award, and his newest chapbook, Homemade Arrows is just out from Red Felt Publishing. Andrew Foster is from Vermont. He writes fiction and poetry. At this moment, he idolizes Lewis Mumford and Emily Dickinson, and he is at work on a book tentatively titled “Jen Smile.” A poem of his will be coming in the next Interim. Maggie Golston is currently on much-needed leave from the PhD program at U Utah. She has an MFA from UA. She is thrilled to be back. Elizabeth Landry’s work has been published in antennae and in The POG 2 Anthology (on sale here tonight!!). Rachel McCrystal. is a literature student at the U of A. Her work has appeared in sanscript. She works as a ballroom/latin dance instructor to pay for poetry and writing classes. Heather Nagami is an MFA student in poetry at the University of Arizona and the editor of Sonora Review. Tenney Nathanson is the author of Whitman’s Presence (NYU Press), The Book of Death (Membrane Press), One Block Over (Chax Press), and the forthcoming Erased Art (Chax Press). He’ll be reading from a book-length poem in progress, Home on the Range. Tim Peterson is an MFA student in poetry at the University of Arizona. His work has appeared in Colorado Review and Rain Taxi, and he recently won honorable mention in the Robert Penn Warren Awards—a contest judged this year by John Ashbery. Frances Shoberg is Events Coordinator for the University of Arizona Poetry Center and is on the Advisory Boards for POG and Kore Press. She will graduate with an MFA from Warren Wilson College (recently noted among the top 20 "reefer schools" in US News and World Report--but alas, the MFA program is low residency) this January. Jonathan Vanballenberghe teaches 6th and 7th grade English at a Tucson charter school, a job from which he draws much material for his work in progress: “The Totem of Busy Bees.” mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:32:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG web site up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The POG website is up and running. please come visit us at: www.gopog.org mailto:pog@gopog.org mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 09:51:18 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a lot of bulshit on television...if the Taleban want to live in a certain way, that's their choice: each country has its choice. I dont care about those things, its not my country: unlike the US etal I efuse to "intervene" on the basis of a lot of distorted anto-moslemic propaganda: anyway, the Taleban are who they are. Let them be. I dont believe 99% of the propaganda I see on television: its engineered in favour of the fascists. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fargas Laura" To: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 10:26 AM Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" > richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz wrote: > > < they have been portrayed) are in many ways a bit sad, not frightening.<< > > You must have missed the film of the guy whose face (except the eyes) had > been skinned; the guy whose arms were slit open to the bone; the woman shot > for failing to veil her face; the woman whipped for failing to veil her > face; the three huddled girls whose mother was shot in front of them for > asking the Taliban soldiers where she and her children should go now that > that the Taliban had commandeered her house and arrested her husband. Me, > I've been watching CNN. Maybe you've been watching the Disney Channel -- > god knows where else you could form the opinion that the Taliban was "sad." > > LF ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 09:57:20 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or maybe the Oklahoma bombings have a similar basis? Who knows...as the cliche goes "truth is the first casualty of war" I know longer believe any one or anything. Bush and his fascist friends such as Blair are capable of anything...ok this is paranoia territory, but no one knows anything any more: I have no faith any more, am totally skeptical. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert saint" To: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 12:09 AM Subject: Re: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? > From a newsgroup... > > Who benefits - how about Patrick Herron. The same type of things were > placed into circulation by the right wing militias after the Oklahoma City > bombing. What next - supermarket tabloids blaming aliens from beyond the > stars? > > > >From: Patrick Herron > >Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org > >To: Subject: FW: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? > >Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:55:11 -0400 > > > >from a newsgroup... > >___________________________________________________________________________ _ > >___ > > > >Who Benefits from the World Trade Center/Pentagon Attacks? > > > >Who Benefits? That's always the first question to consider when a > >"terrorist" > >attack occurs. Instead of clenching one's fist, waving one's flag and > >shouting > >vindictive slogans, let's just stop for a moment of calm analysis of the > >basic > >facts. When we analyze who benefits, we immediately will know with over 99% > >surety, who did it! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 10:01:47 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont believe it. Any way its their way: their business. Not the arrogant West's: interference by the US in other state's affairs may part of the cause of this attack. I dont care what the Taleban do. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duration Press" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" > richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz wrote: > > < they have been portrayed) are in many ways a bit sad, not frightening.<< > > > i guess the public flogging of women for showing a bit of their face in > public can be a bit sad for men, but not too frightening...or i guess that > sponsoring public executions of women doesn't make anyone all that bad... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 08:47:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...alliances... Usually reliable Arabic sources have informed me that there is an orchestrated attempt to insist that in the name of anti-racial profiling, justice, lasting peace, anti-discrimination and multi-culturism that an Arab-American be immediately appointed to head the CIA, F.B.I and be the executive derector of the Anti-Terrorism office, if these demands are not met, the fault is ours, Horatio....Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 09:57:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jenn McCreary Subject: Re: The Situation of Women in Afghanistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David & All, This petition was well-intentioned, but unfortunately is no longer active. The woman who originally started the petition (sarabande@brandeis.edu) lost her email privileges & Brandeis Univ. is deleting all submitted copies of the petition unread. Below is Brandeis Univ's explanation (which is worth reading), and two links, one to the State Dept.'s fact sheet on Women in Afghanistan, and one to an article originally published on Salom.com, entitled "Do Email Petitions Work". Jenn McCreary > Please read this message carefully, especially the next two sentences. Do > not reply to this email. Do not forward this email to anyone else. Anyone > who needs a copy, already has one. Do not make things worse. Do not "help" > by forwarding this message to everyone who has corresponded with you on > this subject. Due to a flood of hundreds of thousands of messages in > response to an unauthorized chain letter, all mail to > sarabande@brandeis.edu is being deleted unread. It will never be a valid > email address again. If you have a personal message for the previous owner > of that address, you will need to find some means other than email to > communicate. sarabande@brandeis.edu was not an organization, but a person > who was totally unprepared for the inevitable consequences of telling > thousands of people to tell fifty of their friends to tell fifty of their > friends to send her email. It is our sincere hope that the hundreds of > thousands of people who continue to attempt to reply will find a more > productive outlet for their concerns. There are several excellent > organizations and individuals doing real work on the issues raised. Some of > them were mentioned in sarabande's letter. None of them authorized her > actions. We suggest that you contact them through non-virtual channels to > help. They all have web sites with information and contact points. Unlike > sarabande, they can channel your energy in useful directions. Do not let > this incident discourage you. Please do not forward unverified chain > letters, no matter how compelling they might seem. Propagating chain > letters is specifically prohibited by the terms of service of most Internet > > U.S. Policy on the Treatment of Women in Afghanistan > Fact Sheet from the U.S. State Department > Do Email Petitions Work? > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 10:49:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristin Palm Subject: What is to be done Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Re: pre-emptive peace strikes, it seems quite odd to start praising our president simply because he has done nothing. There are many issues to question/examine/protest just now, such as our government's desperate attempt to create a tangible enemy, to make this a war like the wars we know. Language is certainly an issue here -- I was disheartened at a recent anti-war meeting to hear a colleague remark that dissent among various anti-war factions "goes much deeper than language." Of course it does, but to dismiss language is to undermine the movement, which makes the work of Rodrigo Toscano and his compadres in NYC so important (see post re: coordinating imagination). "Rush in, Think Later" is a stupid slogan, to be sure. We have to be clear about what we oppose and how we articulate that. So, just as I fault the Bush administration for trying to fashion this into a "traditional" war (Taliban = Osama bin Laden, you are either with us or against us, etc.), I hope for the peace community (myself included) to draw on its creative powers and birth a 21st century peace movement to oppose a 6th century war in 21st century clothing. It is telling, I believe, that perhaps the most pointed critique of the Bush administration's anti-strategy appears in The Onion. (followed, of course, by numerous news investigations as to whether we are officially permitted to laugh yet. It appears that, in addition to flying, flocking to Disney World and purchasing as many new cars, preferably SUVs, as humanly possible, laughter has also made the list of acceptable, if not mandatory, post-9.11 behavior.) http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/us_vows_to_defeat_whoever.html kp Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:12:32 -0700 From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: What is to be done I suspect that the more rational faction within the Bush administration has prevailed, if it has prevailed, in part because there has been so much adverse comment, some of it in the form of peace rallies, on the bloodthirstiness of Bush's first comments. But if not, even if it's all unnecessary effort, don't you think it's better to try to avert horrific bloodshed than to protest against it after the fact? Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 09:15:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: The waving of flags MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hatred of the US is only a focal point. At bottom, religious fanatics are looking for something which that makes them feel a part of a cause larger than themselves. In part, some of us had this in the 1960s, in the Civil Rights Movement, the Anti-War Movement, in Hippie Culture, Feminism, etc. In this sense, no matter how misguided, how destructive, and self-destructive, the terrorists are, their lives, and their deaths, have a larger commitment to them than buying an SUV or a ten room house. Americans run to their churches, but do they find a larger life there, or feel good solace? In advising people to return to their normal lives, the mayor of New York said, "Go shopping." The waving of flags, however misguided, is a hunger for a nation, for ideas larger an the individual, not for an economic system, one that, in any case, is failing us. We need to rigorously question the belief-systems that are strangling this nation, that are separating us as a people, from each other, and from the rest of the world. And we need a poetry, arts, that people don't go to for comfort, but for visions, for ideas, for what questions beliefs they take for granted, whether religious, economic, cultural, aesthetical....We need to learn how to, and to teach how to, live larger lives. -Joel Joel Weishaus Center for Excellence in Writing Portland State University Portland, Oregon. http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:18:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: (no subject) Comments: To: Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interview of Zbigniew Brzezinski Le Nouvel Observateur (France), Jan 15-21, 1998, p. 76* =20 Q: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["Fro= m=20 the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the=20 Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this=20 period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You=20 therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct? Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to=20 the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army=20 invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until=20 now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President=20 Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the=20 pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the=20 president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going=20 to induce a Soviet military intervention. Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But=20 perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provok= e=20 it? B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we=20 knowingly increased the probability that they would. Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they=20 intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in=20 Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of=20 truth. You don't regret anything today? B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the=20 effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regre= t=20 it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to=20 President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its=20 Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war=20 unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the=20 demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire. Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [int=E9grisme],=20 having given arms and advice to future terrorists? B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the=20 collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of= =20 Central Europe and the end of the cold war? Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic=20 fundamentalism represents a world menace today. B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to=20 Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a=20 rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading=20 religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in=20 common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan=20 militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more=20 than what unites the Christian countries. * There are at least two editions of this magazine; with the perhaps sole=20 exception of the Library of Congress, the version sent to the United States=20 is shorter than the French version, andthe Brzezinski interview was not=20 included in the shorter version. The above has been translated from the French by Bill Blum Author, "Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II"= =20 and "Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower" Portions of the books can be read at:=20 http://members.aol.com/superogue/homepage.htm (with a link to Killing Hope) If anyone whose French is better than mine can translate the bracketed word,= =20 "int=E9grisme", I'd appreciate hearing from them ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:10:24 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: bingo robbers press release MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII PRESS RELEASE St.John's Filmmakers attend New York Festival THE BINGO ROBBERS: Award-winning feature-film, The Bingo Robbers, ( A Cinequest, San Jose Selection) written and directed by Lois Brown and Barry Newhook and produced by Dana Warren is screening at the New York International Film and Video Festival followed by short, TV Talk Show Live directed by Rhonda Buckley. The screening at the Clearview Cinema 239 E59th Street (btw 2nd and 3rd Ave) will be held MONDAY, OCTOBER 8TH, 2001 at 6:00 pm with a reception to follow. "The answer to a movie lover's prayer" (The Evening Telegram) A tightly plotted tale of two eccentrics who screw up a series of robberies - mostly because they can't stop talking - is smart, edgy with snappy dialogue to spare. Vallis (Barry Newhook) lives in his 76 Chrysler. Nancy (Lois Brown) loves and depises her deadbeat drummer partner-in-crime. The two cruise the gloomy streets of Newfoundland's biggest city bringing us their darkly comic observations on love and violence, while plotting the best way to take down the 24-Hour Bingo Extravaganza. "There isn't a slow moment in this movie...engaging, wonderfully written" (Brokenpencil,Toronto) Best Feature at Toronto International DV Festival. Winner of Best Actor, Outstanding Writers and Best Original Music Composition at The Atlantic Film Festival. TV TALK SHOW LIVE: TV Talk Show Live is directed by St. John's artist Rhonda Buckley, and written by Lisa Moore and Rhonda Buckley. TV TALK SHOW LIVE. Is it real? Is it art? TV Talk Show Live is a parody on talk shows. The guests on the show are artists, who argue and unravel video art in the 21st century of mediamania. The host, Rick Boland, is a genius, although he has delusions from the very medium that captivates him-TV. Watch as the guests and host of TV Talk Show Live reveal the many pixelized images of art and television. In TV Talk Show Live you may not know 'what is fact and what is fiction' or more precisely, 'what is art and what is television'? TV TALK SHOW LIVE STARS: Rick Boland, Berni Stapleton, Sherry White, Jon Whelan, Geoff Younghusband, and Andrea Cooper. FILMMAKERS LOIS BROWN, DANA WARREN AND RHONDA BUCKLEY WILL BE IN ATTENDANCE. FOR TICKETS CALL: TICKET WEB 1-866-468-7621 or www.nyfilmvideo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:24:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron D Levy Subject: PhillyTalks #19: Allen Fisher & Karen Mac Cormack In-Reply-To: <3BBBC15B.B4C41845@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ------------------------------------------------ PhillyTalks 19: ALLEN FISHER / KAREN MAC CORMACK WEDNESDAY OCTOBER 17, 2001 Reading 6:00 pm Eastern Standard Time Discussion 7:00 pm WEBCAST LIVE from the Kelly Writers House, Philadelphia The FISHER / MAC CORMACK exchange for their PhillyTalks event, is now available at http://phillytalks.org (go to "library"). Pre-event responses to their exchange by Matt Hart and Marjorie Welish TBA. Post-event response by Rob Holloway to be published - together with responses gathered before, during and after the event's live manifestation - as a PT19 Supplement. To participate in the live webcast, subscribe to the webcasts listserve at: http://phillytalks.org/ Subscribers will be given further notice of where to go and what to do at the time of the live webcast. To respond for the Supplement, or for the live event, email us, or telephone during the event (at caller's expense). For further information, please email Aaron Levy: adlevy@dept.english.upenn.edu or Louis Cabri: lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu. Allen Fisher was born in England in 1944 and has been writing poetry since 1962. A performer, painter, publisher and editor (Aloes Books, New London Pride and Spanner), he has produced over one hundred and twenty chapbooks and books of poetry, graphics and art documentation. He is Professor of Poetry & Art and Head of Art at the University of Surrey Roehampton; examples of his Fluxus installation work are in the Tate Gallery collection. He regularly exhibits his paintings and drawings. His last retrospective was in 1993. The next one-person show is projected for 2003. His books include: Bavuska (1969), Place Book One (1974), The Apocalyptic Sonnets (1978), Poetry for Schools (1980), Brixton Fractals (1985), Breadboard (1994). Equipage published Ring Shout and Wild Honey Sojourns in 2000. Spanner published Watusi and Woodpecker in 2001. Karen Mac Cormack's At Issue is forthcoming from Coach House Books (Toronto). Sections from Implexures were printed as a chapbook by housepress (Calgary, 2001), and the chapbook Multiplex from Wild Honey Press (Bray, Ireland, 1998) features her work and that of Ron Silliman's. Mac Cormack is author (with Alan Halsey) of Fit To Print (Coach House Books/West House Books, Toronto/Sheffield, 1998), The Tongue Moves Talk (Chax Press/West House Books, Tucson, Hay-on-Wye, 1997), Marine Snow (ECW Press, Toronto, 1995), Quirks & Quillets (Chax Press, Tucson, 1991), Quill Driver (Nightwood Editions, London, Ontario, 1989) and Straw Cupid (Nightwood Editions, Toronto, 1987). She is featured on a 1996 LINEbreak audio program available at http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/. "PhillyTalks" is made possible thanks to the generous financial support of The Kelly Writers House at the University of Pennsylvania, and to the work of the House's volunteers and staff. Special thanks to Miles Champion, Tom Devaney, Al Filreis, Teresa Leo, John MacDermott and Jeff McCall. - Louis Cabri & Aaron Levy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:25:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron D Levy Subject: STRUGGLE THROUGH by Jackson Mac Low & PhillyTalks 18 Supplement In-Reply-To: <3BBBC15B.B4C41845@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Announcing: STRUGGLE THROUGH By Jackson Mac Low For Jackson Mac Low's PhillyTalk with Andrew Levy (#2; see also #12), Mac Low composed a long poem, STRUGGLE THROUGH, based on Andrew Levy's poem, "Struggle Against Misery" (from Continuous Discontinuous: Curve 2 and reprinted in the PT #2 newsletter). STRUGGLE THROUGH is now available as a fine chapbook. hole books & Tsunami Editions, 2001 $5.00 USD, approx. 8. X 8., saddle-stitched, 32 pp. Cover image by Kristin Prevallet Enquiries: lcabri@telusplanet.net Or write: Rob Manery 2664 William St. Vancouver, British Columbia, V5K 2Y5, Canada -------------------------------------- We are also pleased to announce the PhillyTalks #18 Supplement (PDF), featuring Roy Miki, C.S. Giscombe, George Elliott Clarke, and Barry McKinnon, online at: http://phillytalks.org/ This Supplement extends from the PT18 newsletter and event of CS Giscombe and Barry McKinnon, with Wayde Compton, George Elliott Clarke and giovanni singleton. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 15:52:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: job opening in creative writing... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" fyi... best, joe --------------- Assistant Professor of English Tenure-track. Creative Writing, with preference for Creative Non-Fiction. Appropriate terminal degree necessary, plus substantial publication and teaching record. Send letter, cv, dossier, writing sample, and evidence of teaching ability to Creative Writing Search Committee, Dept. of English, 226 UCB, University of Colorado, Boulder, CO 80309-0226. The University of Colorado, Boulder is committed to equity and diversity in education and employment. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:06:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Kurihara Sadako MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The great Japanese anti-nuclear poet, Kurihara Sadako, herself a hibakusha, a survivor of Hiroshima, begins her poem "Ruins"-- Hiroshima: nothing, nothing-- old and yonug burned to death, city blown away, a socket without an eyeball. Writing twenty years later, she ends her poem, "When We Say 'Hiroshima'"-- That we may say 'Hiroshima' and hear in reply, gently, 'Ah, Hiroshima,' we first must wash the blood off our own hands. The same year, 1952, that she wrote "Ruins," she wrote a poem titled "The Flag, I," which ends: Yet today the flag flutters again, shameless, and all those bloody memories gone; fluttering, fluttering in the breeze, it dreams once more of redrawing the map. (From "When We Say 'Hiroshima' - Selected Poems", Kurihara Sadako. Translated by Richard H. Minear. Ann Arbor, Michigan, 1999.) Joel Weishaus Center for Excellence in Writing Portland State University Portland, Oregon. http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 23:46:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: address for Fanny Howe? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit need email and/or phone for Fanny Howe; pls backchannel; thanks! Tenney mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 10:01:59 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont want you to think that I would support a vicious regime that did do such things: my problem now is that I am rather skeptical of anything put over television. My suspicion is that there might even be something good about anyone that the bourgeouis press attacks constantly and also it was shown (and this isn't paranoia (probably the CIA had nothing to do with attacks despite Patrick's email interesting as that was): it set in concrete that the US were 90% lying during the Vietnam war and there's the Pentagon papers and tricky Dicky Nixon and all that - also the bombing began in the 1950s in an undeclared and illegal and barbaric war by the US). I dont want repression and killing of people in Afghanistan (or anywhere) but I think people have got things out of proportion here: and the history of the US propaganda bullshit machine unfortumately works against them: so I am automatically skeptical of EVERYTHING. I dont know (if it matters) who attacked the US but the US (while I would agree that by and large the American people are more "civilised" (altough that is problematic) than most or many of the Eastern countries)...but unfortunately there are riight wingers in th US (and abroad I agree) who are quite vicious: obviously someone who wants to just kill Americans is also a bit of a worry: but the questions arising are: why? I dont think that the Taleban are involved in this: anyway if they are replaced while you will or may have a "better" regime: the replacing is likely to cause a lot of resentment (more "terrorism" down the line).....the answer is not passivity but a campaign of very active education (evreywhere) and aid to people everywhere: it also means moving in the West to more truly democratic regimes. Persuasion also and education of the peoples in the Muslim countries to the extent they are wanting or want it: that is the way..we shouldnt force them to change. Anycase I dont know much about the Taleban and would want a lot more info than the US and British propaganda befiore I did anything. If I say I dont care about the Taleban: what I mean is that I'm not going to be sidetracked by all the very many strange peoples of the world who all have their ways and various eccentricities, religions: its not as if a large country is armed and is realistically attacking the US. If the US attacks or interferes in Afghanistan that is an unprovoked act of war: illegal and wrong in my book. Terrorists are and never will be restricted to a single country. Sometimes a terrorist is a freedom fighter. I crash a plane if I felt it promoted a beter world: but I dont, yet. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duration Press" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 12:55 PM Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" > richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz wrote: > > < they have been portrayed) are in many ways a bit sad, not frightening.<< > > > i guess the public flogging of women for showing a bit of their face in > public can be a bit sad for men, but not too frightening...or i guess that > sponsoring public executions of women doesn't make anyone all that bad... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:28:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik RealPoetik can't remember for the life of him whether he sent this out or not, so...We recently came into possession of the Bush administration's master plan against Islamic terrorists and Osama Bin Laden. And it is: 1. Decrease tax rates for rich folks (to stimulate the economy). 2. Eliminate taxes on interest, rent and profits (ditto). 3. Eliminate capital gaines tax (ditto). 4. Totally privatize social security (why should poor folks have pensions?). 5. Make labor unions into "conspiracies against free trade" and ban them. 6. Invade Poland. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:20:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Some links worth looking at MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I find these to be the most thought provoking links right now. That doesn't mean that I find them encouraging or agree with all of them. Ron Salman Rushdie's comments http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55876-2001Oct1.html The reaction of Hardt & Negri http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43930-2001Sep29.html Best analysis of left fundamentalism by co-editor of Dissent http://www.theamericanprospect.com/print/V12/18/walzer-m.html How the right exploits left fundamentalism http://www.andrewsullivan.com/text/main_articletext1.html Al Qaeda in Europe & Chechnya http://www.public-i.org/story_01_100401.htm Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan http://www.rawa.org/ Rand Corporation's Netwar thesis http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR789/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 17:10:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: COINTELPRO: The Untold American Story (WCAR) Comments: To: working-class-list@listserv.liunet.edu, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those interested in in an historical account of the Federal Government's attempt to suppress free speech during the last half of the 20th century, go to the link listed below.... jb.. COINTELPRO: The Untold American Story (WCAR) by Paul Wolf, et. al. Click here: COINTELPRO: The Untold American Story (http://www.e-venthorizon.net/human_rights/wcar_cointelpro.html) The introductory content of Paul Wolf's white paper, with contributions from Robert Boyle, Bob Brown, Tom Burghardt, Noam Chomsky, Ward Churchill, Kathleen Cleaver, Bruce Ellison, Cynthia McKinney, Nkechi Taifa, Laura Whitehorn, Nicholas Wilson, and Howard Zinn, as presented at the WCAR Conference in September 2001. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:00:46 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: bombs and butter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bombs and butter Bake better brothers? Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:08:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011007162039.02d33ba0@pop.bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is especially hitting today considering the unusual weather in Buffalo. Today as Peter Jennings reports the sun shone as ice hailed down. It is an uneasy feeling to watch the TV while dark clouds rolled in. It all seems so distant. Yesterday I cleaned up my neighbor's suicide, as the day before I visited my brother in the hospital after another manic attack. On receiving news of the war, I was at my computer, cat on lap drinking coffee waiting for Xena to air. Instead more war and Osama praises god for our fear. Tomahawk missiles and ice - what a world, what a day. Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Charles Bernstein Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 4:23 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR Snow is a strange white word. No ice or frost Has asked of bud or bird For Winter's cost. Yet ice and frost and snow From earth to sky This Summer land doth know. No man knows why. In all men's hearts it is. Some spirit old Hath turned with malign kiss Our lives to mould. Red fangs have torn His face. God's blood is shed. He mourns from His lone place His children dead. O! ancient crimson curse! Corrode, consume. Give back this universe Its pristine bloom. Cape Town. 1914 Isaaac Rosenberg (1890-1918) [from The Collected Poems of Isaac Rosenberg: Edited by Gordon Bottomley & Denys Harding (1977), Chatto & Windus Ltd.] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:24:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: devineni@RATTAPALLAX.COM Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Two=20major=20readings=20to=20benefit=20the=20WTC=20Relief=20Fund?= In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011007162039.02d33ba0@pop.bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends: I am happy to announce two major poetry benefit readings for the WTC Reli= ef Fund happening on Oct 17 in New York City and San Francisco featuring pro= minent poets, writers, film-makers, actors, and readings by NYFD Firefighters, NYPD Police Officers and grade-school children from NYC. Some of the rea= ders include Sharon Olds, Ric Burns, Rick Moody, Sgt. Edgar Rodriguez, Corneli= us Eady, Richard Price, NYFD Anthony Castagna, Poet laureate of San Francisc= o Janice Mirikitani, and many others. Many of the poems being read will be= selected from the enormous public outpouring of poetry posted at New York= City fire stations, Union Square, and numerous other memorial sites aroun= d the city. Thank You, Ram Devineni Words To Comfort Poetry Reading to Benefit the World Trade Center Relief Fund Wednesday, October 17th 2001 The New School, Tishman Auditorium 66 West 12th St. (b/w 5th & 6th), 7-10 PM $15 Suggested Donation, Checks Only Please Readers Include: MICHAEL T. YOUNG EMANUEL XAVIER UNIVERSES MATTHEW TRIGIANI EDWIN TORRES ALHAJI PAPA SUSSO SEKOU SUNDIATA CHARLIE SMITH JACKIE SHEELER PRAGEETA SHARMA SAPPHIRE JOHN RODREGUEZ Sgt. EDGAR RODRIGUEZ VITTORIA REPETTO RICHARD PRICE ROBERT POLITO GIANDOMENICO PICCO WILLIE PERDOMO ALIX OLSON SHARON OLDS D. NURSKE MARY ELLEN MUZIO MUMS DA SCHEMER RICK MOODY TRAVIS MONTEZ SAMUEL MENASHE ANDREW McCARTHY MARIPOSA ELIZABETH MACKLIN FRANK LIMA DAVID LEHMAN MIKE LADD BILL KUSHNER LAWRENCE JOSEPH JOYCE JONES OSCAR HIJUELOS BOB HOLMAN DAVID HENDERSON NICOLE HEFNER SUHEIR HAMMAD MARK HALL JESSICA HAGEDORN RACHEL HADAS THE HACK POET HATTIE GOSSETT TERRY GELBER DANIEL PALEY ELLISON CORNELIUS EADY LATASHA NATASHA DIGGS GUILLERMO DIAZ JOHN DEL PESCHIO RAMONA CZERNECK AILEEN CHO STACEYANN CHIN CAZWELL ANTHONY CASTAGNA REGIE CABICO RIC BURNS DANA BRYANT GINA BONATI ROGER BONAIR-AGARD BONAFIDE ANSELM BERRIGAN CARLO BALDI CHRISTIN APTOWICZ KAZIM ALI NANCY AGABIAN JOANNE AKALAITIS & many others October 17, 2001 at the San Francisco Main Library Poet laureate of San Francisco Janice Mirikitani, Kim Addonizio, Chana Bl= och, and Ruth Daigon. [San Francisco Main Library, 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco at 6:00 PM]= More info at http://www.dialoguepoetry.org/wtc.htm The World Trade Center Relief Fund was setup by NY Governor Pataki to ass= ist the families and dependents of the victims of the September 11th terroris= t attacks. All proceeds from the readings will be donated to the fund. Presented by New School Writing Program, Pier Queen Productions, Rattapal= lax Press, Poets for Peace, Association of Hispanic Arts, People's Poetry Gat= hering, City Lore, Bowery Poetry Club, and Community Words Project. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:57:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = :modeling this quickly against anything possible:spline animation lost format, surface sheared at secondary arbitrary surface, knowledge of spinal operations: Sin(x)*Tan(y) so that the field of anomaly registers in one direction smoothly - then assigning the catastrophic to the latter, control to the former - slab-city breaking rank with the manifold as amplitude rises to infinity: //now///in this time of war////daddy-o i gotta split/////things are getting hot//////things aren't so cool/////you can sense it in the mad streets////sense it in their crazy eyes///daddy hip existence of the karma crazy eyes//you're my gone world baby//you're my gone world baby://cause baby///you're all i got////in this world gone mad/////in this gone world// ////i'll raise my head/////i'll scream////cool daddy you're not all that's going on///in this time of war//there's no karma big enuf://now///in this time of war////all else seems gone/////in this gone world//////in this lost world/////of blank stares////and dark existential eyes///daring daddy hip existence//do something original for a change///hipster yabyum in the everywhere// == ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:49:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Deadline 1 December 01 for Proposals for Incubation 2002 Conference on Writing & the Internet (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 15:16:27 +0000 From: trace@ntu.ac.uk To: sondheim@panix.com Subject: Deadline 1 December 01 for Proposals for Incubation 2002 Conference on Writing & the Internet Please be reminded that the deadline for proposals for the 2002 Incubation Conference on Writing and the Internet is 1 December 2001 Please note also a change of date - the conference will now take place on 15-17 July 2002 at The Nottingham Trent University, UK (not 19-21 as originally advertised) For our second conference we continue our focus on the role of the internet and telecommunications and particularly invite contributions that address the way new media create new potentials and re-define the acts of writing and reading. We welcome proposals on all aspects of new media and writing, especially by those whose work is based in new media, on or off the internet. Go to http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/ for the Call for Proposals and the sound, image and text archive of Incubation 2000. trAce Online Writing Centre The Nottingham Trent University Clifton Lane Nottingham NG11 8NS UK Web: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk Email Enquiries: trace@ntu.ac.uk Telephone Enquiries: +44 (0)115 8486360 **Next courses at the trAce Online Writing School start 19 November** http://tracewritingschool.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 11:39:35 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "][c.o.!.a.x.(ing)][" Subject: .*.s.*.c.*.ream.*.i.*.n.*.g.*. Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, nettime-l@bbs.thing.net, reader-list@sarai.net, spectre@mikrolisten.de, syndicate@anart.no, thingist@bbs.thing.net, webartery@onelist.com, wryting@uwo.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" .*. .*.s.*.c.*.ream.*.i.*.n.*.g.*. .*. .*. .*. .*.m.ask][me][: ][s][c][r][a][tch][r doors aqua-plane.ing .*.m.as][jid][k: drummage hearts r cau][terize][ght .*.masque.1: redneckian I][D][gnaw.ants welts .tan my flesque .*.masqu.e][rror raid][.2: refracted ][de][bor][d][edom stench .*.masque.2: phobia ][news][ x.posure .*.masque.2*1: dinner in a dwell.point & syn][dicated][.][l][apses halt .*.ma][o][sque.2*3: a banished ][com][pre][hensive][tense .*.masque.3*4: slide pointing in2 t][wa][r.auma .*.masque.3*3: cabl][abia][e con.duct.tor][id][s .*.m][b][asque.1: burnt-spide][human co][r][pse][ dream ru][i][nnings .*. .*. .missile*screaming. .*.basic point defense missile system::silo][xane][ strands of heated g][ui][l][t][oat-stretches red N snapping .*.BASIC cognitive process::beds of snailed l][ang][u][i][sh N media][.tion][ snagging .*. .*. .*. .*. . . .... ..... net.wurker][mez][ .antithetical..n.struments..go.here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:53:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: STEEL BAR events In-Reply-To: <20011005040834.24903.qmail@front.acsu.buffalo.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Buffalo's STEEL BAR upcoming events/ fall 2001 * SAT. 10/13 TOM RAWORTH/ NICK LAWRENCE Tom Raworth was born in London. In the 1960s he edited the magazine OUTBURST, and ran two small presses. Since 1966 over 40 books and pamphlets of his poetry and prose have been published in several countries and languages. During the 1970s he lived for five years in the US and Mexico, and has occasionally taught in the UK, the US, and South Africa. He now lives in Cambridge (UK), likes spicy food, and has many bad habits. Nick Lawrence is the author of Timeserver (1996) and Decolonizing the Child (2001), publisher of Hintertext editions, and editor of Chloroform, a journal of poetics. Among his current projects are a sound-and-text collaboration, Quiet American, and the completion of a book on the intimate correspondence between poetry and advertising in mid-nineteenth century America. He teaches literature at Canisius College and lives with his wife and daughter in Allentown. * SAT. 11/3 ELEVATOR POSTCARD PROJECT Hosted by Mike Kelleher, Elevator press features artist's books by Isabelle Pelissier (in collaboration with Kristin Gallagher) and performances by poets from UB Poetics & beyond. Collaborators include: Christopher Alexander, Michael Basinski, Anselm Berrigan, Eddie Berrigan, Joel Bettridge, LeeAnn Brown, Lewis Carroll, Terrence Chiusano, Alicia Cohen, Barbara Cole, Richard Deming, Logan Esdale, Elaine Equi, Thomas Fisher, Heather Fuller, Kristin Gallagher, Phillip Goode, Sandra Guerreiro, Laird Hunt, Lisa Jarnot, Michael Kelleher, Ike Kim, Greg Kinzer, Nick Lawrence, Dan Machlin, Douglas Manson, Bernadette Mayer, Steve McCaffery, Tim McPeek, Alice Notley, Michael Rozendal, Linda Russo, Tim Shaner, Kyle Schlesinger, Jonathan Skinner, Aaron Skomra, Jessica Smith, Brian Kim Stefans, Carrie Ann Tocci, David Trinidad, Karen Weiser. * All events at 8 PM. $3 donation. Cash bar. The Steel Bar is located in the Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main Street (entrance on Halbert), Suite 551 Buffalo, NY More info: jskinner@ acsu.buffalo.edu * Steel Bar Events are made possible by generous funding from the SUNY at Buffalo Samuel P. Capen Chair of Poetry and the Humanities (Robert Creeley), the David Gray Chair of Poetry and Letters, Department of English (Charles Bernstein), and the James H. McNulty Chair, Department of English (Dennis Tedlock), and from the just Buffalo Literary Center. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:46:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All: I have been reading the posts about the situation after Sept. 11th and I think that one bit of heresy I wish to express is that non-violence while and great concept with some pretty great exponents (Jesus, Gandhi. King) does not always get results and that many times to achieve justice violence is needed. In many ways violence needs to be embraced and not shunned so that we can control and use it in the most measured way possible. I think World War II taught us this. I think as well that intolerance needs to be embraced. The reality is that the reason that we in the US and other "post-modern"societies do not normally kill each other over faith issues is because frankly we are intolerant of people acting on their theological bigotry's. In the Middle East many governments that support the US have no compunction of acting on these theological bigotry's (Saudi Arabia for example). I also think that it is not bigoted to ask how much of true Islam is in the terrorists actions? I write this not as an agnostic but as a practicing Catholic. I can say with assurance that my Church's positions on for example what happened during the Holocaust or what happened during the colonization of the Americas were based in true theology. Catholic theology for 1800 years has condemned the Jews, it made Native Americans into objects rather than subjects and allowed their murder and enslavement and all Catholics have to admit this and as John XXIII said let the light in so that the roaches can be seen. Our theology made these things possible, does Islamic theology make these terror acts possible? R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Bernstein" To: Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 4:23 PM Subject: ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR > ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR > > Snow is a strange white word. > No ice or frost > Has asked of bud or bird > For Winter's cost. > > Yet ice and frost and snow > From earth to sky > This Summer land doth know. > No man knows why. > > In all men's hearts it is. > Some spirit old > Hath turned with malign kiss > Our lives to mould. > > Red fangs have torn His face. > God's blood is shed. > He mourns from His lone place > His children dead. > > O! ancient crimson curse! > Corrode, consume. > Give back this universe > Its pristine bloom. > > Cape Town. 1914 > > > Isaaac Rosenberg (1890-1918) > > > [from The Collected Poems of Isaac Rosenberg: Edited by Gordon Bottomley & Denys Harding (1977), Chatto & Windus Ltd.] > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:13:04 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: So As Always RE:O! ancient crimson curse! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit So as always Never ever Ending Ever never ending Ending never Ever ever never never Ending So as always Reuven BenYuhmin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 00:24:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r ode to war... ODE TO WAR I eat red meat I sleep to wake I hold the cold I wake to sleep I fite in e-type I'm not me I'm the falling tree I'm the red red sea I'm the eye of he who dies........................DRn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 11:02:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik William Fairbrother William Fairbrother lives in Denmark, is real well published in little magazines, and can be reached at wfairbrother@hotmail.com. Check out also his web site http://www.geocities.com/worldezine. I was eating melted plastic Long before it came into vogue:::: Not saying I'm anything special More like being in a Gibson novel::::seer Sometimes or maybe not a violence Of innocence acts upon one's impulse Therefore I am voyeur misanthropic:::: It was deathwish at first I admit But something zen in eating The uneatable to taste That which is beyond earthly flavor:::: And the smell is perfectly awful. Lowliest Lowliest of all creation is chicken held captive industrial concentration camped throughout the world. We devour them. Small brains strange nervous systems neither ability nor inclination to believe in god Mad chicken disease. William Fairbrother ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:50:52 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Here's to Life Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit cbsnews.com top story, Oct. 7, 2001 Striking Back Against Terror (CBS) American and British forces completed a day of punishing air attacks against Osama bin Laden and his Taliban hosts inside Afghanistan, striking at terrorists blamed for the attacks that killed thousands in New York and Washington ... Above the news, the banner advertisement for Tropicana (low acid) & at center stage in large type: "Here's To Life!" Hummmm Yes seems words as if language wise Had eyes & fingers poignant pointing Reuven BenYuhmin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 02:56:28 -0400 Reply-To: jtley@home.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Ley Organization: Riding the Meridian Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > but who knowsa, > maybe American capitalism will continue on its merry exploitative and > warlile way for ever: Richard please. American capitalism? We're writers, yes? We use words well? A few corrections: Capitalism isn't inherently American, I believe there were merchant classes in almost every early society, and not just in the West. And, if we'd like to point fingers at capitalism, let's remember how seldom it wears a national face. Corporations are rarely civic minded when it comes to the bottom line. As a citizen of the US who certainly does not always, or often, support the political choices her government makes, I am aware that I do benefit from those choices, as does any other citizen of any other country allied with the US. That includes the ability to use the technology that makes a list like this possible. I don't consider your comments whacko. I'd tend to say they're not thought through very well, and reflect a rather predictable response to the US and what is often known as Corporate America -- jeeze, there's that darn America thing again Unfortunately, we're all a bit more interconnected than we at times wish to admit, which makes analyis of situations like the one which now confronts us just a bit more complicated. Jennifer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 07:44:47 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruine der Kuenste Berlin Subject: Self-Less (by Wolf Kahlen), more actual than ever... Comments: To: tibet.archive@berlin.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Net artist WOLF KAHLEN is dissolving pixel by pixel, user by user in the net. On a first page. On the second you see and hear your personal pixel, the one, you activated to disappear, solely on the empty page. And on the third page you see all the 'lost' pixels arriving back and shaping a new WOLF KAHLEN. Look, hear and have the triptych printed out, signed and numbered, the way you, only you see the process taking shape, nobody else has seen this moment of the RITUAL DEATH. An exiting piece and a very conceptual one, media concerned and at the same time sensual. The RUINE DER KUENSTE BERLIN presents it to collectors as a present, which WOLF KAHLEN gave them at his 60th birthday. The URL for the piece is www.wolf-kahlen.de More about us: www.snafu.de/~ruine-kuenste.berlin AND SORRY FOR EVENTUAL CROSSPOSTINGS NetSoundArt for Tibetans, Chinese and Japanese: A threefold internet art piece by Wolf Kahlen in Tibetan, Chinese and Japanese language is online since today. Live and interactive the visitor of the page www.tu-berlin.de/~arch_net_art/2.html may hear a piece of world literature of these countries, the first page at least. If he is patient enough to find out on a blank page, with the mouse in motion, the sound of the words hidden in the background like on a book page. This automatically turns out to be a game, since any move of the mouse touches another word. Until the underlying structure has been found out, a number of audio events have happened, words' sounds have overlapped or entangled at random. Who stirs with the mouse produces a concert like a DJ. The presented world's classics are by Tibet's greatest poet Milarepa (11./12. Century), the Chinese Tang-Dynasty poet Li Bo (6.- 9. Century) or the alphabet-poem attributed to Kukai of Japan. It is of political delicacy that Wolf Kahlen, who did a number of documentaries in Tibet and Mongolia since 1985, parallels Tibet with China. Possibly the first Tibetan language internet site to listen to, probably frequented joyfully by the world spread Tibetans and the few with access in Lhasa and other parts of the Snowland. Who has entered the site either reads Tibatan, Chinese or Japanese or has been attracted by the curious writings, since all three titles are of course in original characters. Another way to support the cultures in their differences. The hearing experience of the pieces, roughly translated as Sorry, Milarepa / Excuse me, Kukai / I beg your pardon, Li Bo, spans the whole spectrum between playful chaotic sounds, own word combinations and listening to a fluently spoken classical piece: all democratic ways of using words. Words as material per se. And since these words bump into each other in most cases other than as a structered classical piece, Wolf Kahlen asks the authors for excuse in the titles already beforehand. As a side effect the net is swept blank off the overload of images. And the sound of the 'bush drums' is heard again. These three pieces continue the former realized three ones in English, German and Spanish language Sorry, Mister Joyce / Verzeihung, Herr von Goethe / Perdone, Don Cervantes on www.tu-berlin.de/~arch_net_art/1.html More pieces in a great number of world languages are under construction. They kind of point out on the polarisation of the numb and speechless making psycho esthetic feedbacks of the net 'culture'. The texts are usually read by native artists. Li Bo read by Zhao Zhao Kukai by Masuko Iso, Milarepa by Tsewang Norbu, Goethe by Wolf Kahlen, Joyce by David Allen, Cervantes by Argine Erginas. Stay tuned. Edition Ruine der Kuenste Berlin http://home.snafu.de/ruine-kuenste.berlin ruine-kuenste.berlin@snafu.de Contact Wolf Kahlen wolf.kahlen@tu-berlin.de ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 08:44:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Garin Lee Cycholl Subject: readings in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Two readings scheduled in Chicago for Thursday, October 11: 12:30 P.M. - Raymond Federman will read from his work, including DOUBLE OR NOTHING at the University of Illinois at Chicago as part of the campus reading series. The reading will take place at UIC's Rathskellar in the basement of the Atrium Building at 700 S. Halsted (near the corner of Halsted and Harrison). The reading is free. 7:30 P.M. - Chicago writer Alex Shakar will read from his new novel, THE SAVAGE GIRL, at Barbara's Bookstore (1100 Lake Street in Oak Park). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 11:07:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ethan Paquin Subject: Stride Books 2001 - Big $avings on New Titles Comments: To: ethan@slope.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FRESH FROM STRIDE BOOKS "one of the most impressive small presses" - Times Literary Supplement (www.stridebooks.co.uk) 'ROBERT LAX: SPEAKING INTO THE SILENCE' $10.00 --- SAVE $3.00 off original cover price FREE SHIPPING Jack Kerouac called Robert Lax "one of the great original voices of our times ... a Pilgrim in search of beautiful innocence, writing lovingly, finding it simply, in his own war." This book is a small memorial to that voice which was finally silenced in September 2000. It contains a previously unpublished interview with Lax, an essay about visits to the Lax archive, and a memorial poem, as well as Robert Lax himself "On Poetry and Language." In UK: Send £5.95 (cheques payable to 'Stride Books') to Stride, 11 Sylvan Road, Exeter, Devon EX4 6EW, England. In US: Send check or money order (payable to Stride Books), to Ethan Paquin, Advisory Editor, 85 Old Nashua Rd., Londonderry, NH 03053. contact: ethan@slope.org or editor@stridebooks.co.uk ________________________________________________ Other Robert Lax titles available from Stride: Dr. Glockenspiel £5.00 $10.00 27th & 4th £5.95 $12.00 Psalm £5.95 $12.00 Robert Lax's writing is also included in these Stride anthologies: A Curious Architecture: a selection of contemporary prose poems £8.50 $15.00 How the Net is Gripped: a selection of contemporary American poetry £7.50 $15.00 Just published by Stride: Hell & Other Poems, Franz Wright £5.00 $10.00 Night Music, Charles Wright £5.00 $10.00 # ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 08:11:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: If you're in San Francisco this week Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Please come and see me on Wednesday Oct 10 at 7 pm. at City Lights Bookstore, it will be the book party for my new book ARGENTO SERIES. Come on down, it's in North Beach the legendary Bohemian quarter! And if you couldn't get into our play WHITE RABBIT last Friday, we will be doing it again with a slightly different cast this Friday Oct 12 at 8 pm at New Langton Arts (1246 Folsom Street). Call for reservations first at (415) 626-5416. The play is AWESOME and went down a storm and all the actors dressed as animals are adorable!!! Thanks, everyone. -- Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:34:43 -0600 Reply-To: Laura.Wright@Colorado.EDU Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Wright Subject: Edwards & Collom read in Boulder Oct. 11 (note new location) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit T H E L E F T H A N D R E A D I N G S E R I E S p r o u d l y p r e s e n t s a reading featuring J A C K C O L L O M author of _Red Car Goes By: Selected Poems 1955 - 2000_ & K A R I E D W A R D S author of _post/(pink)_ THURSDAY, OCTOBER 11th, 8:00 p.m. at LEFT HAND BOOKS & RECORDS 1200 PEARL STREET #10 Boulder, Colorado (just east of Broadway, downstairs from street level) The event is open to the public. Donations are requested. For more information about the Left Hand Reading Series, call (303) 938-9346 or (303) 544-5854. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jack Collom is a distinguished poet who has graced Boulder with his presence for many years. The author of 16 books of poetry, including the recent Dog Sonnets (Jensen/ Daniels) and Entering the City (Backwaters Press), Collom has recorded two spoken word CDs with local musician Ken Bernstein, and was twice awarded fellowships from the National Endowment for the Arts. His selected poems, Red Car Goes By, will be published by Tuumba in November, 2001. He is Associate Professor in the Department of Writing & Poetics at Naropa University. kari edwards is a poet and artist Born 523 years after Joan of Arc was burnt at the stake. Hir book post/(pink) was published in April, 2000 by Scarlet Press. kari's work can also be found in Blood and Tears, an anthology of poetry on the murder of Matthew Sheppard (Painted Leaf Press), The International Journal of Sexuality and Gender Studies, and Facture. kari has exhibited hir art throughout the United States, including exhibitions at the Denver Art Museum, New Orleans Contemporary Art Museum, University of California-San Diego, and University of Massachusetts- Amherst. Sie is the poetry editor of Transgender Tapestry. Sie has taught art at the University of Denver and the Tyler School of Art at Temple University, and has taught literature and art at the University of Colorado- Boulder. kari has lectured at the Lambda Rising Queer Studies Conference, the University of Colorado, and at Regis University. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There will be a short OPEN READING immediately before the featured readings. Sign up for the Open Reading will take place promptly at 8:00 p.m. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Left Hand Reading Series is an independent series presenting readings of original literary works by emerging and established writers. Founded in 1996, the series is presently curated by poets MARK DuCHARME & LAURA WRIGHT. Readings in the series are presented monthly. Upcoming events in the series include: FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 16th: JEFFREY DESHELL & ELIZABETH SHEFFIELD -- Laura Wright Serials Cataloging Norlin Library, University of Colorado, Boulder (303) 492-3923 Poetry must be at least as powerful as music, but I am not sure that it is possible --George Oppen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 12:29:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Cid Corman "at" Kelly Writers House 11/19 Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE KELLY WRITERS HOUSE presents a conversation with CID CORMAN via live audiocast 9 PM (eastern time), Monday, November 19 | co-moderated by | Frank Sherlock, | Fran Ryan, | Tom Devaney & | Al Filreis With great pleasure we invite you to join us for a reading and conversation with Cid Corman, who will join us from his home in Kyoto, Japan. The program will be audiocast live worldwide. You can join us by coming to the Kelly Writers House at 3805 Locust Walk in Philadelphia, where an audience will converse directly with Corman by an amplified telephone connection. That conversation will be audiocast, and thus you can also join us, wherever you are, by making a simple connection to the web. Audiocast participants will be able to pose questions for Cid Corman via email. If you intend to participate, please write to < whcorman@english.upenn.edu > and be sure to indicate if you will attend at the Writers House or will participate from a distance through the audiocast. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cid Corman, b. 1924, was born in Boston, and received his B.A. from Tufts. He did graduate work at the University of Michigan, where he won the Hopwood Award for Poetry, and the University of North Carolina. Throughout the 1950's and 1960's Corman's magazine ORIGIN published some of the major works of the Black Mountain poets, as well as other important work, choosing mostly poems not yet readily available elsewhere: the early poetry of Charles Olson, Robert Creeley, and Denise Levertov with the late works of Wallace Stevens and William Carlos Williams. He carried on a fascinating correspondence with Stevens, who greatly respected what Origin was doing. Corman has published over seventy volumes of poetry, translated several French and Japanese poets, and published four volumes of essays. He has lived in Kyoto, Japan since 1958 where he and his wife run a business, Cid Corman's Dessert Shop. Corman is one of "late" modernism's most significant enablers, a poet of talent himself, and a master of "production" -- whose work, both as poet and publisher, is intertwined with the Objectivists Zukofsky and Oppen, as well as Creeley and Olson. Among those poetic colleagues and many younger poets worldwide, Corman's verse is perhaps the most committed to the sublime, refusing the temptation of "effect" for the tactile ink of line and "touch." His collection Nothing Doing is full of poetry of cognitive conundrum, but also of uncompromising wisdom, where Corman can definitively declare: "There's only / one poem: / this is it." Corman was one of the first to theorize what modernist verse can do on the radio. In Poetry (1952) he wrote a piece on poetry and radio that reads, in part: "What few poets seem to realize is that radio is their best potential outlet these days. It puts the stress rightly on the spoken word, tests the imagination of writer and listener spoken revives the need of the oral-aural commitment in verse, and permits the largest possible audience to experience the poem. As a rare diet, of course, it undermines itself. But there is no reason today, under sincere and determined effort, that good poetry programs should not be available throughout the country. They con be noncommercial sustaining programs, like This Is Poetry. Nearly three years ago I initiated my weekly broadcasts, known as This Is Poetry, from WMEX (1510 kc.) in Boston. The program has been usually a fifteen-minute reading of modern verse on Saturday evenings at seventhirty; however, I have taken some liberties and have read from Moby Dick and from stories by Dylan Thomas, Robert Creeley, and Joyce. In the approximately 150 programs to date, during which I have had the opportunity to improve my delivery and to appreciate oral detail, I have offered the program to many guest poets, to read and discuss their work. About a third of the programs have been of this kind. My guests have included such writers as John Crowe Ransom, Archibald MacLeish, Stephen Spender, John Ciardi, Theodore Roethke, Pierre Emmanuel, Allan Curnow, Richard Wilbur, Richard Eberbart, Katherine Hoskins, and Vincent Ferrini. A number of the programs have been bilingual, in English and French, Spanish, German, or Italian. I have had young but highly qualified persons, native to the tongues, read the originals against my reading of translations. Programs have been given to Corbiere, Eluard, Lorca, Ungaretti, Benn, and others. Imagine hearing Claudio Guillen, son of Jorge Guillen, read a poem that Lorca wrote for him when he was a child in Spain...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 11:25:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kiwi Comments: To: Damion Searls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sun & Moon Press 6026 Wilshire Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90036 October 8, 2001 (Columbus Day) Dear Friends, In these difficult times I thought you might be interested in some good = news: Standard Schaefer's NOVA (Sun & Moon Press, 2001) has a fascinating new review in Rain Taxi's online magazine. Just click www.raintaxi.com There's also an interview with Sun & Moon author Jalal Toufic from = Lebanon. We offer a 20% discount on copies of Nova and Over-Sensitivity (Toufic's = book). For Nova send $10.26 ($8.76 plus $1.50 for postage) to Sun & Moon Press 6026 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90036 For Over-Sensitivity send $12.66 ($11.16 plus $1.50 postage) to Sun & = Moon Press, address listed above. Thanks for your interest. Douglas Messerli Publisher ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:45:17 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Octogenarian Nun Imprisoned In US For Protesting State-Supported Terrorism Training Camp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit from July ... http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0718-01.htm 88-Year-Old Nun Begins Prison Term by Jay Hughes PEKIN, Ill. –– An 88-year-old nun arrested at Fort Benning, Ga., while protesting the Army's School of the Americas reported to prison to begin serving a six month sentence. Dorothy Hennessey arrived Tuesday at the minimum-security Pekin Federal Prison Camp along with her sister Gwen Hennessey, 68, also a nun from Dubuque, Iowa. The sisters were among 26 protesters convicted of trespassing during a November protest in which some 3,400 people crossed onto the Army base without permission. Only those who had been arrested for trespassing before but not prosecuted were sentenced to prison. The protesters contended that graduates of the school, recently renamed the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, have been linked to murder, torture and other human rights abuses. Military officials say the school's goal is to teach democratic principles to future Latin American leaders. Dorothy Hennessey was given the chance to serve probation, but she turned the judge's offer down. "I'm not an invalid, so I think I should get the same as the others," she said. She said she began protesting against the school to honor the memory of her brother who spent several years as a missionary in Central America and relayed tales of government abuses. "My little bit of discomfort is nothing like that my brother's parishioners suffered down there," she said. The Hennessey sisters were sentenced to up to six months in prison, as was Rachel Hayward, of Negaunee, Mich., who at 19 was the youngest protester convicted. Pekin prison spokesman Richard Engel said the nine female protesters sent there were assigned cubicles that each will share with another inmate in dormitory-style housing. The Rev. Roy Bourgeois, founder of the protest's organizer, School of the Americas Watch, said the sentences of the 26 who were ordered to report to prisons around the country Tuesday would energize future demonstrators. The group is planning another protest at Fort Benning in November. © Copyright 2001 The Associated Press More on Ft. Benning's Terrorism Training School, still Open to the Would-Be Third World Dictator: http://www.soaw.org/home.html Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:25:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG web site . . . and old versions of Netscape Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just an alert about the new POG website, news of which I recently sent you: apparently it won't work in older versions of Netscape (it closes or crashes the program). sorry! I designed the site with Microsoft's Front Page 2002; site works fine, of course, in Internet Explorer--and also in new version of Netscape, 6.1. Apologies, though, if the site generated any crashes among users of older versions of Netscape. if you're still game: www.gopog.org Tenney Nathanson (for POG) mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 14:17:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Balestrieri Subject: Re: language of our times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Two historical ironies I find very disturbing: the use of "ground zero," previously used to decribe the center of the U.S. attack on Hiroshima's civilian population, and "homeland security," with it's echo of South African apartheid. Coincidence: two foreigners and non-Listees have the analyses I've read here that come closest to my own heart and mind - the Dalai Lama and Arundhati Roy. Pete Balestrieri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 01:57:03 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course: I see what your saying. But I'm certain that if tey'd set up somewhere - well where? - look I know the terrible hstory of the attacks on Jewish people (I was watching a programme on the Hist of England and Edward the 1st actulaly banned the Jews from money lending (as they nad he had run out of cash) then he hung a whole lot then he persecuted the others, putting yellow badges on them : then he went on to slaughter the Welsh and the Scots..so England was the first (or pretty much in the running for the medal) country to practice genocide. And of course the holocuast was terrible. So attacks on Israel becuase its Jewsih I dont support: but if they are in defence I can understand: I think that the Israelis are being cynically used by history: not perhaps quite simplistically deliberately. So I can understand Bin Laden's support of the Paletinians. But I wouldnt support a genocide against the Israelis....as you say or imply I think the big misfortune was to have this extreme right winger in charge now just when injustices werebeing revealed and some of the history becoming less biased to the Israelis..who ARE being used by the big Corporations and so on as that area is very important for them to control: hence this present insane and "infinite" justice. If I was Jewish....my uncle said that he thought that my grandfather was...but like my friend Martin (now deceased) who changed his name and refused to be labelled Jewsih or Socialist (as his father virulently was) etc I think I'd do that: I refuse to be put in a box. Look: if I was in Iran I'd be arguing with them...I argue the toss with everyone and I keep seeing different sides to evverything: just at the moment I am on a Jihad jag but that probably wont last I'll go back to my "Infinite Poem" which (when I began it) I was repudiating ANY politiical involvement. But I'm not happy with the situation: whoever or why the attack on the US I'm not behind Blair he makes me want to vomit over the Television set. I wish someone would fire a 747 through the arrogant bastard: its nothing personal its just that I'd rather be running the world! Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Israel > Not so easy a question to answer. There is an enormous range of opinion > among Jews both in and out of Israel. Since the intifada (the first one) > more and more American Jews have felt alienated from Israeli policy. But > what does being opposed to Israel mean? If the polls are to be believed > most American Jews seem to feel that the West Bank and Gaza should be a > Palestinean state sooner rather than later. Jerusalem is a tougher > question, for all parties. In Israel itself it's not a matter of Jews not > being totally united, they're totally divided. For years the Likud held on > by very narrow margins. The one time there was what appeared to be a clear > choice--land-for-peace, as it's termed, or continued occupation--Labor won > (that's Rabin's election). Barak was a dicier choice, which makes Sharon's > election equivocal data at best. > > As to "opposed to Israel" meaning "I just wish it would go away," few Jews > take that position, seeing Israel as a solution to a problem that Europe > and America were unwilling to deal with even before the holocaust. If a > credible solution--one guaranteeing safety, citizenship and religious > freedom--had been presented circa 1920, or even 1933, there would have been > a lot fewer Zionists. I for one don't think that the creation of Israel was > such a good idea--a viable diaspora would have worked. As it was, Stalin > established a Jewish National Homeland on the shore of the Pacific in > Siberia, Churchill proposed Uganda, and, at a time when Germany was still > willing to solve its "Jewish Problem" by exporting it, almost no countries > were willing to absorb more than a trickle. US immigration laws after 1921, > remember, were engineered to keep the wretched masses out. > > Even at the time of the establishment of Israel in 1948 of the ultra ultra > Orthodox, the Hasidim, only one sect recognized Israel. The others thought > it best to wait for the mystical Israel to be founded when the messiah, the > son of David, re-established the kingdom. > > Mark > > At 12:02 PM 10/5/2001 +1200, you wrote: > >Arielle. They stole that idea from Radio Hauraki which was New Zealand's > >first commecail or non Govt radio station. They broadcast off-shore from > >Tiri Island and started to play some quite good music. Anyway it was good > >and broke the mould of fusty old Government Radio. They were termed the > >"Pirate Radio Station". They are quite good: if commercial radio stations > >were a little less moronic I'd be very pleased but most commercial > >broadcasting (and broadcasting in general) has declined in quality over > >here...but at least we have a lot of freedom here (I know that there are > >injustices and problems by and large - on the Big Balance Sheet I would go > >for US and Western democracy (given someone put the "mock" in I) as the best > >of a bad bunch for now). > > But that radio station in Israel was a good example...trouble is this word > >"feedom" it gets bandied around....truth..as Auden wrote: "All I have is > >voice (pen?) to undo the folded lie." The Right Wing over there wouldnt > >like to hear anything about peace....to be fair Israel (as far as I know) is > >not totally united in its foreign policies and not all Jewish people are > >Zionists. Are all Palestinians in anti-Israel? Are some quite unconcerned > >and live elsewhere and get on with their life? Does anyone know of Jews who > >either are nuetral to or are opposed to Israel or dissent and so on? After > >all one can be a Christian and be opposed to the Crusades (which cynics > >might say are still ongoing). The trouble is that there's always the > >suspicion that Yeat's "The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of > >passionate intensity." means that the heart fed on fantasy (and reality of a > >kind) means some people "see red".....the whole things boils over: truth > >dies valiantly, and Ed Dorn or his ilk croak dark mockingly over the the > >unspirited plains...Richard. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Arielle Greenberg" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:08 AM > >Subject: Re: Israel > > > > > >> While yes, I would agree that some amount of dissent > >> is allowed in Israel, I wanted to offer this one > >> anecdote: when I lived there in 1987, I listened to a > >> radio station which broadcast in English as "the Voice > >> of Peace" and always said they were broadcasting "from > >> somewhere in the Mediterranean." It was a kind of > >> pirate radio station that was leftist and played > >> hippie music and had arts programming, and was the > >> alternative to the state-run radio station which had > >> solider DJs. They had to broadcast from a boat that > >> kept moving because the Israeli gov't was always > >> trying to shut them down. I believe it doesn't exist > >> at all anymore. Where is "the Voice of Peace" when > >> you need it?! > >> > >> Arielle > >> > >> --- Robert Corbett wrote: > >> > btw, the talk of Israeli as a "democracy" always is > >> > bothersome to me, > >> > since they still use laws on the books from the > >> > Ottoman Empire to claim > >> > settlements in Palestine. and when I say still, I > >> > mean to this day. I am > >> > sure there is legal mumbo jumbo that authorizes > >> > this, but this is either > >> > inexcusable, or it suggests that "Empire" is a > >> > better way of > >> > understanding the way the world works--literally. > >> > democracy is always > >> > "democracy for whom?". > >> > > >> > that said, apparently people in the West Bank and > >> > Gaza, when asked to > >> > compare, prefer Israeli democracy to the US. a > >> > comment on its proximity, > >> > certainly, but perhaps also on the relatively high > >> > profile that dissent > >> > has in that country...as opposed to ours, where for > >> > all our sound and fury > >> > about free speech, the reign of public shame muffles > >> > the right and the > >> > left. (though mostly the left, Drn!) > >> > > >> > Robert > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Robert Corbett "I will discuss > >> > perfidy with scholars as > >> > rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning > >> > kisses, I will sip > >> > Department of English the marble marrow > >> > of empire. I want sugar > >> > University of Washington but I shall never > >> > wear shame and if you > >> > call that sophistry > >> > then what is Love" > >> > - > >> > Lisa Robertson > >> > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just > >$8.95/month. > >> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:41:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Marks Subject: Re: Here's to Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today, Oct. 8, I was scanning a page of text and the scanner's text editor took the word "worth" and came back with"war$". Yes, it seems words do point. Steven Marks ----- Original Message ----- > cbsnews.com top story, Oct. 7, 2001 > > Striking Back Against Terror > > (CBS) American and British forces completed a day of punishing air attacks > against Osama bin Laden and his Taliban hosts inside Afghanistan, striking > at terrorists blamed for the attacks that killed thousands in New York and > Washington ... > > Above the news, the banner advertisement for Tropicana (low acid) & at > center stage in large type: "Here's To Life!" > > Hummmm > > > Yes seems words as if language wise > Had eyes & fingers poignant pointing > > > Reuven BenYuhmin > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:29:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: religion/ was ON RECEIVING... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>I also think that it is not bigoted to ask how much of true Islam is in >>the terrorists actions? I write this not as an agnostic but as a practicing Catholic. I can say with assurance that my Church's positions on for example what happened during the Holocaust or what happened during the colonization of the Americas were based in true theology. Catholic theology for 1800 years has condemned the Jews, it made Native Americans into objects rather than subjects and allowed their murder and enslavement and all Catholics have to admit this and as John XXIII said let the light in so that the roaches can be seen. Our theology made these things possible, does Islamic theology make these terror acts possible? Ray I think you are brave to bring this up, and to reflect on your own religion as was Arielle earlier. Daughter of a lapsed Catholic, stepgranddaughter of a devout one, I can say that yes, all Catholics have to admit this, and all that might ever turn to the church in a time of need might be stopped by this horrible history. Beginning for me with the demonic sexism of all of the "top 3" religions, I don't have much truck with em. But I would add, there is not only the ideology but the culture, the day-to-day living, to consider. It wasn't ideology that killed Native Americans, it was people, for ex. (I realize you are aware of this, Ray!) What I am unable to wrap my mind around is that some people actually believed this religious junk which worked hand in hand with genocide. It's always seemed to me that it was just fake. Like the treaties were fake, ie not in good faith. Like Georgie is fake with his words and "beliefs". Anyway, I suppose I'm a bit rambly having been meditatively and luckily in the country all weekend and now returning to the news of the present bombing. But I would also like to add that I think it is very very important that, however lamely, the Pres and the Press are saying, oh by the way, don't assume all Muslims are terrorists. I was glad Bush said that in his address to Congress -- although he could have been a little blunter, like maybe just flat out saying um, hey, don't kill your neighbors because they are strange to you. But oh yeah, that doesn't fit with his ideology. Country Joe McDonald was in the Chronicle today saying who we should most be listening to now is Vietnam vets. Peace be with you. And also with you. Elizabeth Treadwell "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:55:08 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: The Passing Show Within Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Always taking issue with cracks in bowls The way things fold & unfold People used to chatter chatter Endless news reports Focusing in at a different angle Watching & knowing without entangle Sweeps away & who knows so Keeps gathering up in spoonfuls Arranging this arranging that Adjusting adjusting your hair your hat Wanting that blue Wanting this blue Striping away all labels all Empty headed enough enough the show The passing show within Mind the passing show Within the passing mind Reuven BenYuhmin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:20:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from current program of 107TH CONGRESS, 1st SESSION: "IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES September ___, 2001 _______________ A BILL To combat terrorism and defend the Nation against terrorist acts, and for other purposes." It's the last 3 words that count. Pierre ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 POASIS: Selected Poems 1986-1999 Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 go to: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/poasis.htm Email: joris@ albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:27:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Left fundamentalism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I hope I'm not the only person out there dismayed (again) by Ron Silliman's glib coinage, "left fundamentalism." Sort of like "social fascism," this seems to be trying to characterize a position one disagrees with by associating it with an outcome it has nothing to do with. "Social fascism," it may be recalled, was the Communist Party's way of describing socialists who, because they did not follow the CP's line in opposing fascism, were abetting it. And hence, the logic followed, no better than fascists. I think the same logic is inferred in "left fundamentalism." This is a misuse of language, pure and simple. Barrett Watten ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:52:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: Chicago Readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Fuller & Devin Johnston reading at Harold Washington Library, 400 South State Street, Chicago Chicago Authors Room, 7th Floor This Saturday, October 13, 1:00 PM sponsored by Chicago Poetry Project Other readings scheduled: October 27: Pam Rehm & Peter O'Leary January 26: Mary Margaret Sloan & Christine Hume Spring 2002: Ronald Johnson Tribute--A Group Reading of THE SHRUBBERIES Conveniently located downtown and free to the public. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 00:16:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, it is the talibans business...was also hitlers business, stalins business, pol pots business, maos business...or, perhaps, the us's business...that you can write from new zealand, complaining about us foreign policy does little to support the relativism with which you wish to view the taliban...i guess if the women of afghanistan chose to join you in the fight against "us capitalism" then they would be worth caring for...until then, richard, perhaps the next time you feel like lashing out against that same "us capitalism," you should remember the fact that your e-mail service is provided by microsoft...i'm sure bill gates (capitalism's poster boy) appreciates your support (even more so if you use his dial-up access)...quite the participant you are in the whole game...perhaps also you should check to see where the components for your computer come from...id hate for you to be financially supporting any other us corporation... this from amnesty international: http://www.web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/index/ASA110051997 tho if their propaganda is too facist for you, i dont know what to say... ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:01 PM Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" > I dont believe it. Any way its their way: their business. Not the arrogant > West's: interference by the US in other state's affairs may part of the > cause of this attack. I dont care what the Taleban do. Richard. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 14:06:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: New Lucilles by Susan Landers and Sawako Nakayasu Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Double Lucy Books is pleased to announce the publication of L u c i l l e # 10 fable for little fishes by Susan Landers & L u c i l l e # 11 Balcony Play by Sawako Nakayasu Subscriber copies will go out this week; if you would like to receive these broadsides please send $1 to Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Double Lucy Books, PO Box 9013, Berkeley, Calif. 94709 USA. Peace be with you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 00:42:33 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: FW: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? In-Reply-To: <001e01c14d65$c8918460$8a2437d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit America you don't really want to go to war. America it's them bad Afghans. Them Afghans them Afghans and them Terrorists. And them Afghans. The Afghans wants to eat us alive. The Afghans's power mad. She wants to take our cars from out our garages. Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader's Digest. Her wants our auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our filling stations. That no good. Ugh. Him makes Indians learn read. Him need big black niggers. Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help. America this is quite serious. America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set. America is this correct? > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of richard.tylr > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 2:20 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: FW: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? > > > Patrick. This is fascinating: the bright side is, as you say, no military > power, no secret intellience, no organisation, is ubiquitous or omniscient > or omnipotent: but they can do a lot of damage. I had thought of the > implosion thing myself: the explanation given though was that the > structure > in this case is not internal...I have a friend who is a civil/mechanical > engineer...I'll run that one past him: mind you he was completely > convinced > that it was a > "jack up" on the day of the attacks.Probably organised by the Israeli-US > Govt agents: I see the Israelis have blown up a Tupolev: their agents > probably planted a bomb, or the Russians shot it down to generate more > enthusiasm for Russian involvement: I see Blair is in his element: these > insipid characters thrive in these war situations....but I'd > like to learn > more of the history of Israel - I read a book years ago by a Palestinian > which was very good - but I must get some more info... I'm not > happy with a > lot of the Israeli actions: its interesting that prior to these > attacks, for > the first time, some embarrassing truths about the Israelis were emerging. > This is a case where someone who is Jewish has to try to be > "objective" and > so do Palestinians, but they've both been through a lot of > strife...probably withoout extremist political influence and power and oil > and warmongers: arabs and jews would live together well. I'm very > interested > in this letter you've sent and I'm going to send it around. > As you say, people will have to make up their own minds...my friend the > engineer pointed out that with the "collapse" of the Soviet Union there is > now an "enemy vacuum" ig Baad America him no has Big Bad Russia > and them RED > Rooskies and them Kommoonists: now they have Muslims and > TERRORISM which of > course is how capitalism keeps itself in business. > Another thing: its certainly the case that no one can be complacent > anymore ...of whatever political ilk... I also think that the whole thing > will backfire on the imperialist powers in long run: I think of Mao Tse > Tung's dictum that the Superpowers "...are like giants who lift rocks to > drop them on their own heads, and then again, until their own doom." > Regards, Richard. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Herron" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 3:55 AM > Subject: FW: Who Benefits?/Was 911 a Sick Joke on America? > > > > from a newsgroup... > > > __________________________________________________________________ > __________ > > ___ > > > > Who Benefits from the World Trade Center/Pentagon Attacks? > > > > Who Benefits? That's always the first question to consider when a > > "terrorist" > > attack occurs. Instead of clenching one's fist, waving one's flag and > > shouting > > vindictive slogans, let's just stop for a moment of calm analysis of the > > basic > > facts. When we analyze who benefits, we immediately will know with over > 99% > > surety, who did it! > > > > What was the tone of U.S. and world opinion just a week or two > before the > > attacks? > > > > In the U.S., the economy was lagging badly, the stock market > was falling, > > many > > were questioning if the government's taxes were legal, the Gary Condit > case > > had > > been poorly handled, people continued to question Waco and the Oklahoma > City > > bombing, they questioned our support of Israel in her policies regarding > the > > Palestinians, and the approval rate of President Bush was low. > > > > What about World Opinion? Just 8 days before the WTC/Pentagon attacks, > > Israel > > was stunned by a UN decision equating Zionism with Racism, according to > > Ha'aretz > > Daily.com. > > > > Israel was branded a "racist apartheid" state by thousands of > > non-governmental > > organizations (NGOs) attending a U.N. World Conference Against Racism in > > Durban, > > South Africa. The conference was attended by representatives of 153 > > governments. > > > > The declaration, adopted by 3,000 NGOs in 44 regional and interest-based > > caucuses, shocked Jewish groups. > > > > Foreign Minister Shimon Peres called the anti-Israel declarations a > > disgrace, > > and said that Israel was "seriously" contemplating withdrawing from the > > conference in protest. The Israeli delegation to the conference blasted > the > > language of the NGO declaration as an incitement to hatred of Jews. > > > > Jewish delegates walked out. The U.S. delegates followed. > > > > The Forum accused the Jewish state of "systematic perpetration of racist > > crimes > > including war crimes, acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing" in its > > treatment of > > the Palestinians. > > > > In addition, the head of the Danish Red Cross, Freddy Karup > Pederson, told > > the > > Danish Parliamentary Foreign Affairs Committee that the lifestyle of > Jewish > > settlers in the Palestinian territories resembles that of > whites under the > > former racist apartheid system. He also criticized Israel's collective > > punishment of the Palestinian population. > > > > So, just 8 days before the attacks, the overwhelming attitude of the > nations > > of > > the world was against Israel's policies and in support of the Arab > > countries' > > charges against Israel, a nation heavily supported by, and allied with, > the > > U.S. > > > > > > What has happened to U.S. and World Opinion SINCE the attacks? > > > > Immediately AFTER the attack, public opinion was turned 180 degrees. Now > the > > Arab countries are being demonized, the U.S. population is > overwhelmingly > > backing the President (according to the Washington Post), urging him to > > punish, > > kill, destroy, annihilate the perpetrators of this crime, even though no > one > > really has any proof who did it, the U.S. government is > preparing for war, > > the > > U.S. and Israel have carte blanche support to bomb nearly every Arab > country > > out > > of existence. > > > > No one is questioning anymore the "apartheid" policies of the Israelis > > against > > the Palestinians. War, as politicians have known throughout history, > > stimulates > > the economy and (if the propaganda is handled properly) unifies the > > population > > behind the President and squelches ALL criticism. > > > > Anyone who is not 100% behind the President is considered a traitor. > > President > > Bush in a televised Speech to Congress, urged global support for his war > on > > terrorists, warning the world: "either you are with us, or you are with > the > > terrorists." (Washington AFP) 9-21-01 (An effective way to stifle all > > dissent!) > > > > If you don't go along with the plan for destruction of the > Arabs advocated > > by > > the government, you become the target of threats and must have > bodyguards, > > as > > California Democrat Barbara Lee has discovered. She cast the > lone vote in > > Congress against the use of military force in response to the > WTC/Pentagon > > attacks and now must have Police guarding her Capitol Hill office. > (Reuters, > > AP, > > ABCNEWS.com > > 9-18-01) > > > > > > What ELSE has happened since the attacks? > > > > 1) The population has been prepared for a long term war where the number > of > > U.S. > > casualties will be high (Washington Post Online September 21, 2001). > > > > 2) Bush creates a High Office of "Homeland Security" supposedly > to protect > > Americans from attack. The job would involve coordination of > government-wide > > domestic security efforts, including meshing domestic FBI and > foreign CIA > > intelligence, working with U.S. military, emergency officials and state > and > > local governments. > > > > The Homeland Defense position "would probably not need Senate > confirmation, > > which other Cabinet jobs require, nor legislation to create" White House > > officials said. So there would be no investigation, oversight nor > > accountability > > for this person. (Reuters - Washington 9-21-01) (Perfect conditions to > > appoint a > > crony) > > > > 3) U.S. orders 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine for $343 million in > > preparation for a possible bioterrorism assault. The contract has been > given > > to > > a small, Cambridge-based firm, Acambis, a British biotechnology company > who > > reported a net loss of $8 million in the six months prior to June 30, > > unchanged > > from last year. (How convenient to get this huge order! It would be > > interesting > > to find out the conflict of interest issues here.) (Reuters News, London > > 9-20-01) PREPARING THE POPULATION TO EXPECT BIO-TERRORISM. > > > > 4) "America and Britain are producing secret plans to launch a ten year > "war > > on > > terrorism" - Operation Noble Eagle - involving a completely new military > and > > diplomatic strategy to eliminate terrorist networks and cells around the > > world." > > (The Times - London 9-20-01) > > > > 5) The Senate OKs FBI Spying on the Internet: FBI agents soon > will be able > > to > > spy on Internet users legally without a court order. Two days after the > > terrorist attack, the Senate approved the "Combating Terrorism Act of > 2001" > > which enhances police wiretap powers and permits monitoring in more > > situations. > > The FBI's surveillance system is called Carnivore. (Lycos > Network 9-20-01) > > MORE > > CONTROL! > > > > 6) The U.S. Plans to overthrow Taliban and put Afghanistan under UN > Control, > > according to The Guardian - London (9-21-01) NOTE: Yugoslavia is ALREADY > > under > > UN control. (MORE UN CONTROL) > > > > 7) A global surveillance system known as Echelon exists and has the > ability > > to > > eavesdrop on telephone calls, faxes and e-mail messages, a European > > Parliament > > committee has concluded. (Lycos Network 9-20-01) MORE CONTROL! > > > > 8) Face-ID Technology gains new support. "State lawmakers who were > planning > > to > > sponsor legislation restricting its use now say they are > reassessing their > > plans." MORE CONTROL! (Denver Post Capitol Bureau, 9-20-01) > > > > 9) "Experts See a High-Security America of Surveillance & Seizures": New > > York: > > Security Experts in the United States are describing a new kind > of country > > that > > could emerge, where electronic identification might become the norm, > > immigrants > > might be tracked far more closely and the airspace over cities like New > York > > and > > Washington might be off-limits to all civilian aircraft." (The > International > > Herald Tribune 9-19-01) MORE SURVEILLANCE OF U.S. CITIZENS. > > > > 10) "Lawmakers See Need to Loosen Rules on CIA" Congressional > leaders who > > oversee the nation's intelligence system have concluded that > America's spy > > agencies should be allowed to combat terrorism with more aggressive > tactics, > > including the hiring of unsavory foreign agents, including revived > > discussion of > > reversing the US 25 year ban on using covert agents to assassinate > > foreigners. > > R. James Woolsey, the former director of the CIA said that > "Washington has > > absolutely undergone a sea change in thinking this week." (New > York Times, > > 9-16-01) MORE SURVEILLANCE OF U.S. CITIZENS! > > > > 11) NATO Announces a Third World War is Almost Upon Us. A pentagon > spokesman > > hinted towards potential targets being Libya, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, > North > > Korea, Syria and others. (NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson) > > > > 12) California Congresswoman, Mary Bono, R-Palm Springs warned that the > > country > > should prepare for a fight against international terrorists that will > likely > > include personal sacrifice, the use of ground troops overseas > and the risk > > of > > retaliation against civilians by the enemy. She also predicts intense > > scrutiny > > of airline passengers, a national system of fingerprinting and > > identification > > cards and the specter of chemical and biological attacks on the > U.S. (The > > Desert > > Sun 9-18-01) > > > > 13) An enemy is needed to justify a $344 Billion War Budget, when the > > federal > > government currently spends only $42 billion on education, $26 > billion on > > affordable housing and $1 billion on school construction. > > > > 14) President Bush sent his anti-terrorism bill to Congress one > week after > > the > > WTC/Pentagon attack, launching an emotional debate that will force U.S. > > politicians to choose between continued freedom for Americans or greater > > security. (Lycos Network 9-20-01) DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO > > WRITE > > ONE OF THESE BILLS? IT TAKES MONTHS! They are hundreds of pages > long. THIS > > ONE > > WAS OBVIOUSLY WRITTEN BEFORE THE ATTACK! How convenient! Wake > up America! > > > > 15) "President George Bush focused his energy on building a GLOBAL > ALLIANCE > > for > > a fight against terrorism..." (MSNBC 9-18-01) Here comes the New World > > Order! > > > > 16) Fast-Moving House Bill Restricts Liberties - Much of it Unrelated to > > Terrorism! Congress is being asked to rush to pass emergency > anti-terrorist > > legislation written by the Department of Justice, but much of the > > legislation > > turns out to have nothing to do with fighting terrorism. Instead, the > > legislation contains a host of items which have been on the bureaucratic > > wish > > lists for many years. > > > > 17) "We Must Ignore the Peace Lobby and Show No Restraint" says The > > Independent - London (9-24-01) > > > > 18) Bush Suspends Habeas Corpus: Legal Immigrants May Be Held Without > Cause: > > "The Bush Administration today announced it is using its powers > under the > > National Emergency Act to suspend the right of Habeas Corpus for all > > immigrants > > in the country, including legal immigrants, meaning that any > immigrant in > > the > > U.S. right now can be held INDEFINITELY by the police or government > WITHOUT > > TRIAL OR DEMONSTRATION OF CAUSE TO HOLD THEM." > > > > Though no one has yet suggested infringing the rights of U.S. citizens, > the > > move > > is a frightening first step to a national tyranny, based on perpetual > > suspension > > of the Constitution in the name of fighting perpetual war." > > > > 19) President Bush has agreed to bail out the airlines with BILLIONS of > > dollars, > > an industry that was swimming in red ink LONG BEFORE the WTC/Pentagon > > attacks. > > > > > > What was known BEFORE the attack - and by whom? > > > > 1) Echelon Gave Authorities 3 Month Warning of Attacks - German Paper: > > Frankfurt, Germany - U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies received > warning > > signals at least three months ago that terrorists were planning > to hijack > > commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of > > American > > culture, according to a story in Germany's daily Frankfurter Allgemeine > > Zeiung > > (FAZ). Newsbytes.com > > > > 2) U.S. planned to attack Taliban BEFORE WTC/Pentagon Attacks: A former > > Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the U.S. was planning military > > action > > against Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban even before last week's attacks. > > Niaz > > Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American > > officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go > > ahead by > > the middle of October. (BBC News 9-18-01) > > > > 3) Expert - Russia Knew In Advance...Encouraged Citizens to Cash Out > > Dollars: > > Russian press accounts and other activities by the Russian > government this > > summer indicate that the Russians knew in advance that something would > > happen to > > America, including a "financial attack" against the U.S. During the past > > three > > months, Russian media and officials have encouraged citizens to cash out > of > > U.S. > > dollars pending an economic collapse there after an "attack." > (NewsMax.com > > 9-17-01) > > > > 4) FBI tracked man in custody 2 weeks before attacks: "Two weeks before > the > > terrorist attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C., FBI agents were > at > > a > > flight school in Oklahoma asking questions about a man now suspected of > > having a > > link to those attacks", according to CNN. > > > > "The fact that FBI agents were at the Airman Flight School in Norman, > > Oklahoma, > > two weeks before any attacks would seem to contradict the agency's > assertion > > that it was not aware of any connection between aviation schools and > > suspected > > terrorists. FBI Director Robert Mueller has stated publicly, "There were > NO > > warning signs that I'm aware of that would indicate this type > of operation > > in > > the country," (CNN.com 9-18-01) SOMEBODY IS LYING! > > > > 5) U.S. Pulled Plug on 500 Arab/Muslim Websites the Day BEFORE Jetliner > > Attacks: > > Five hundred websites - many of them with an Arab or Muslim connection - > > crashed > > when an anti-terrorism task force raided InfoCom Corporation in > Texas. The > > 80-strong task force that descended upon the IT company included FBI > agents, > > Secret Service agents, Diplomatic Security agents, tax inspectors, > > immigration > > officials, customs officials, department of commerce officials and > computer > > experts. (Brian Whitaker 9-12-01) > > > > 6) U.S. was warned in 1995 of plot to hijack planes, attack > buildings: The > > FBI > > was warned six years ago of a terrorist plot to hijack commercial planes > and > > slam them into the Pentagon, The CIA headquarters and other buildings, > > Philippine investigators told CNN. The plan was termed Project Bojinka. > > (Manila, > > Philippines CNN 9-18-01) > > > > 7) "U.S. Government Had Prior Knowledge of Emergency: The most massive > > so-called > > "terrorist" attacks on U.S. soil since the Oklahoma City > bombings of 1995, > > were > > known, a week ahead of time, by the American CIA. Among the foreign > > intelligence > > agencies who penetrated the plots were the French CIA and Israel's The > > Mossad, > > units of both often working with one another. > > > > "Foreign intelligence sources confirm the validity of this > story. And they > > state > > that they informed the U.S. secret police who absolutely failed, > neglected, > > and > > outright refused to take action as to known prior specifics of which the > > top-level of the CIA were informed in advance." (www.skolnicksreport.com > > 9-13-01) HOW INTERESTING! > > > > 8) Spy in the White House? "Terrorists" had Ultra Secret Codes on 911: > > (DEBKA > > Intelligence Files 9-22-01) > > > > 9) More Unusual Market Activity Reported BEFORE Attacks: > "Chicago traders > on > > Wednesday cited unusual activity in airline options up to a month before > > attacks > > on U.S. landmarks, and German bankers reported brisk activity > in reinsurer > > Munich Re shares, adding to speculation that those behind the attacks > tried > > to > > profit from their acts. (Reuters 9-20-01) > > > > So how come EVERYONE else knew this was going to happen? Why would the > U.S. > > refuse to investigate when told, unless it was their own plan all along? > > > > > > BIG CLUE!! Why did the Towers IMPLODE instead of EXPLODE? > > > > The towers came down as gracefully as a fountain of water. "Too > methodical > > to be > > a chance result of airplanes colliding with the structures" said Van > Romero, > > vice president for research at New Mexico Institute of Mining and > > Technology. > > > > "My opinion is that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there > > were > > some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to > > collapse," > > Romero said. Romero is a former director of the Energetic Materials > Research > > and > > Testing Center at Tech, which studies explosive materials and > the effects > of > > explosions on buildings, aircraft and other structures. > > > > The Towers IMPLODED! They did NOT explode! A fuel fire causes an > EXplosion, > > not > > an IMplosion. Explosions explode OUT. Implosions, implode IN! > > > > IMPLOSIONS can ONLY occur with immense planning by a highly > skilled group > of > > craftsmen educated in the unique skill of demolishing buildings by > > strategically > > placing explosive devices within the building. This requires > many experts, > > much > > time and significant access to the building beforehand. > > > > The skill of implosion of buildings was developed primarily to demolish > > buildings in areas of high building density, so the destruction of the > > structure > > will not cause damage to the surrounding buildings. > > > > In addition, the towers came down long after the planes struck. > To suggest > > that > > fuel dumping from the airplanes caused a fire hot enough to > melt the inner > > structure is ludicrous. > > > > First of all, who can prove the planes dumped all of their fuel into the > > core of > > the building? > > > > Second, why did the fuel take so long to catch fire? > > > > Third, fuel-fires cause EXplosions, NOT IMplosions! > > > > Fourth, the structure was built to withstand temperatures of > 2000 degrees > > Fahrenheit, according to the architect and designer of the > building, a man > > who > > is now deceased, but who preserved this nugget of information in an > > interview he > > recorded in 1998. > > > > Hyman Brown, a University of Colorado civil engineering > professor and the > > World > > Trade Center's construction manager, watched in confusion as the towers > came > > down. "It was over-designed to withstand almost anything including > > hurricanes, > > high winds, bombings and an airplane hitting it," he said. > (Scripps Howard > > News > > Service 9-11,01 and 9-12-01) > > > > So, why was it necessary to implode the whole structure? To eliminate > > evidence, > > just as was done to the Murrah building in Oklahoma City, before the > > forensic > > specialists could get in to examine the evidence. > > > > Just like the Branch Davidian compound at Waco was bulldozed by the > > government > > before any evidence could be examined. > > > > Conclusion: This was a highly skilled endeavor by a large group of > > well-trained > > people with access to the buildings, the airplanes and the explosives. > They > > would have had to blend into the population and not look suspicious. > > > > Question: Who would have these qualifications? Certainly not a > large group > > of > > Arab "terrorists"! > > > > > > Where are the "Indestructible" Black Boxes? > > > > All four Black Boxes were supposedly destroyed and rendered unusable in > > spite of > > the fact that they are designed specifically for plane crashes which > result > > in > > insurmountable conditions. In fact there are reported to be TWO Black > Boxes > > on > > each plane, but apparently ALL EIGHT of the Black Boxes are completely > > destroyed. > > > > Strange indeed! > > > > ABC News Reports: The Black Box is "ALMOST INDESTRUCTIBLE. IT > IS DESIGNED > TO > > WITHSTAND HEAT OF UP TO 2,000 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT FOR ONE HOUR, > salt water > > for at > > least 30 days, immersion in a variety of liquids such as jet fuel and > > lubricants, AND AN IMPACT OF 3,400 G's. By comparison, astronauts are > > typically > > exposed to up to six Gs during a shuttle takeoff." > > > > Yet CNN reported that "In New York, several blocks from the ruins of the > > World > > Trade Center, a passport authorities said belonged to one of > the hijackers > > was > > discovered a few days ago, according to city Police Commissioner Bernard > > Kerik." > > > > The paper passport apparently survived intact! > > > > The "indestructible Black Boxes were destroyed! > > > > Hmmm! > > > > > > Who Has Claimed Responsibility? > > > > Within HOURS after the attack the U.S. was aggressively touting > Osama bin > > Laden > > as the "terrorist" responsible for this dastardly deed. As one > writer to a > > popular website noted, "I find it laughable that the agency > notorious for > > its > > inability to find a bleeding elephant in a snowbank suddenly > (within hours > > of > > the attack) has the culprit pinpointed!" > > > > The media continuously whips up the public to indiscriminate hatred of > > almost > > any Arab. On radio, on TV, in the newspapers and in magazines, all one > hears > > or > > reads is HATE towards Osama bin Laden, or any other Muslim. The Globe, a > > well-known grocery store rag, contains pictures of Osama Bin Laden with > > rifle > > "cross-hairs" targeted over his face and a soldier in fatigues > pointing an > > automatic rifle at his head. Yet these same media outlets > pompously demand > > the > > elimination of "hate!" > > > > It is USUAL and CUSTOMARY for Terrorist groups to claim > responsibility for > > an > > attack. Yet no such claim has been made. > > > > Osama bin Laden says he didn't do it. "We have been blamed in the past, > but > > we > > were not involved," he said. (The Guardian - London 9-17-01) > > > > "Egyptian President Mubarak still has not seen bin Laden > proof," according > > to a > > Paris AFP report. "Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak says he has not seen > any > > proof of Osama bin Laden being "the brains" behind the terrorist attacks > on > > the > > United States and warns Washington against over-hasty reprisals, in a > > newspaper > > interview published on 9-24-01. > > > > Saddam Hussein, in a letter to the American People noted that "when the > > event > > took place, Arab rulers and the rulers of countries whose religions is > > Islam, > > rushed to condemn the event." (Iraqi News Agency 916-01) > > > > There are even reports that Osama bin Laden has been, and may still now > be, > > an > > operative of the U.S. CIA. > > > > And now, according to The Washington Post (9-25-01), The U.S. is now > > "Unsure" of > > Going Public with the "Proof" of Osama bin Laden's > responsibility for the > > "terrorist" attack. With the U.S. public, and other nations, demanding > > proof, > > the Bush administration is hiding behind the cloak of "National > Security." > > > > Secretary of State Colin Powell promised that the U.S. "soon" would "put > out > > a > > paper. . that will describe quite clearly the evidence that we have > linking" > > bin > > Laden to the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. But Rep. > Porter > > Goss (R-Fla), chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on > > Intelligence, > > said that the administration cannot present its full case "without > revealing > > some sources and methods that we would not want to reveal." HOW > INTERESTING > > AND > > CONVENIENT FOR THEM! > > > > > > Now Let's Consider - Are There Other Countries, besides the Arabs, who > have > > ever > > been involved in terrorism? > > > > According to the Washington Report, "In 1967 on the fourth day > of the Six > > Day > > War, the armed forces of Israel attacked the American intelligence ship > USS > > Liberty for 90 minutes in international waters in broad > daylight following > > several hours of close, low-level reconnaissance. Thirty-four men died, > 171 > > were > > hurt, and the ship was so badly damaged that it had to be scrapped. > > > > The government of Israel has lied about the circumstances ever since, > > telling a > > story markedly different from that told by American survivors. Congress > has > > refused to question Israel's demonstrably false account. > > > > Why would Israel risk alienating its American friends? Why did Israel > > attack? > > > > According to eyewitness accounts by Israeli officers and > journalists, the > > Israeli Army executed as many as 1,000 Arab prisoners during > the 1967 war. > > Historian Gabby Bron wrote in the Yediot Ahronot in Israel that he > witnessed > > Israeli troops executing Egyptian prisoners on the morning of June 8, > 1967, > > in > > the Sinai town of El Arish, including about 150 Egyptian POWs. They made > the > > prisoners dig their own graves then they were shot as they stood at the > edge > > of > > the grave. > > > > As those executions were underway, America's most sophisticated > intelligence > > platform, USS Liberty, was less than 13 miles from El Arish, > close enough > to > > see > > the town mosque with the naked eye. With binoculars one could make out > > individual buildings and might have seen the executions if one > had looked > in > > the > > right place. > > > > The attack on the USS Liberty lasted 75 minutes. It was not brief nor > > accidental > > as Israel claims. The Israelis wantonly destroyed life rafts in > the water > > and > > they jammed international radio distress frequencies while > Americans, who > > might > > have been saved, died! > > > > The United States is no stranger to perpetrating acts of > terrorism against > > other > > countries. The U.S. bombed Iraq unmercifully during the Gulf War. > Thousands > > of > > private citizens were slaughtered. Then a deadly embargo was > put in place > to > > destroy them slowly by illness and starvation. What was the crime of the > > common > > people? > > > > The U.S. CIA has also been involved in covert wars all over the globe, > > raping > > and pillaging entire economies of Central American and other countries. > > > > In addition, the U.S. is not above turning on its own citizens with > > vengeance. > > > > FDR Knew About Pearl Harbor: John Flynn made a sound case for > Roosevelt's > > foreknowledge in 1946, the historian Charles Beard confirmed it in 1948 > with > > his > > book FDR and the Coming of the War 1941. John Toland told the story in > > Infamy in > > the early 1980s, and John Stinnett followed with Day of Deceit. They all > > understood FDR's manipulation of, and complicity in, the attack on Pearl > > Harbor. > > It was done to incite the U.S. citizens to hate the Japanese > and push them > > to > > support the U.S. entry into World War II. > > > > And it worked beautifully! Americans willingly gave their own lives and > the > > lives of their sons to fight a war that had nothing to do with them. > > > > FDR knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Not only did > he refuse > to > > stop it, he encouraged it by his manipulative treatment of > Japan prior to > > the > > attack, and his stationing of ships in the Hawaiian port, an easy target > for > > the > > Japanese. (Antiwar.com) > > > > It worked magnificently then - and it is working magnificently now! > > > > Other acts of violence that must be considered are: The Randy Weaver > family > > killings by the U.S. government in Idaho, the Waco horror where the U.S. > > shot, > > bulldozed and set on fire its own citizens, and the Oklahoma bombing, > where > > there is abundant information pointing to U.S. Government involvement . > > > > Why would a government plan an attack its own citizens, while blaming > > another? > > > > What would it have to gain? > > > > The answer is: EVERYTHING! > > > > > > Go back and review what has happened SINCE the attack: > > > > The U.S. Government has dramatically increased its control over the > American > > population while destroying the rights of the people, a situation > necessary > > for > > the takeover of the U.S. and eventually, all other countries, by the New > > World > > Order to be run by the United Nations. And they're doing it with the > > citizens' > > complete support. > > > > "The President has the power to seize property, organize and control the > > means > > of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, call > > reserve > > forces amounting to 2 1/2 million men to duty, institute martial law, > seize > > and > > control all means of transportation, regulate all private enterprise, > > restrict > > travel, and in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of ALL > > Americans...While the danger of a dictatorship arising through > legal means > > may > > seem remote to us today..." > > > > --A Joint Statement by Senators Frank Church (D-ID) and Charles > McMathias > > (R-MD) > > September 30, 1973. HOW PROPHETIC! > > > > > > A SURE ROAD TO DICTATORSHIP! > > > > U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft Seeks Sweeping Powers! > > > > "The United States will remain vulnerable to terrorist attacks > unless law > > enforcement agencies are given a wide range of new > counterterrorism tools, > > including improved wiretap capabilities and easier access to voice mail > and > > Internet user's personal information, Attorney General John > Ashcroft told > > lawmakers Monday." (MSNBC > > 9-25-01) > > > > A third of New Yorkers support internment camps (concentration > camps) for > > "individuals who authorities identify as being sympathetic to terrorist > > causes," > > according to a poll form the Siena College Research Institute. > (Newsday.com > > 9-25-01) (Remember that President Bush has said that if you > don't support > > the > > U.S. government 100% in their handling of this situation - - - YOU ARE > > SIDING > > WITH THE TERRORISTS!) > > > > Public Opinion has overwhelming turned from support for the Arabs and > > against > > Israel, to supporting Israel and their ally, the U.S. and hatred against > the > > Arab countries. > > > > And now the U.S. has the support of the entire nation, and much of the > > world, > > for its unrestrained unleashing of vengeance on ANY and EVERY > Arab nation. > > > > But it's not surprising that the U.S. and Israel are the ONLY countries > > where > > the majority backs a military strike (Reuters 9-22-01). > > > > >From Stern.Intel: Israeli Mossad Links to World Trade Center Attack: "A > > U.S. > > military intelligence source revealed details of an internal > intelligence > > memo > > that points to the Israeli Mossad intelligence service having > links to the > > World > > Trade Center and Pentagon attacks... > > > > "The attacks have certainly turned U.S. public opinion firmly back in > > Israel's > > favor after eleven months of Palestinian uprising, heavy criticism of > Israel > > over war crimes allegations and racism by a UN conference in Durban." > > > > Lebanese Druze Leader Believes CIA, Mossad Responsible for U.S. Attacks! > > Lebanon's anti-Syrian Druze leader Walid Jumblatt believes the CIA and > > Israel's > > secret service Mossad are behind the terrorist attacks in the United > States, > > and > > that Saudi extremist Osama bin Laden is an "American agent," newspaper > > reports > > said. (Beirut AFP 9-15-01) > > > > Fake Terror has been the Road to Dictatorship > > for thousands of years. > > It's the oldest trick in the book, dating back to Roman times. > > > > Create the enemies you need! > > > > A wise philosopher has unveiled the irony of it all: "To restore our > > freedom, we > > will need to be deprived of it. To recover from senseless > murder, we will > > need > > to perpetrate more of it," or so says the President. > > > > So, Who's Responsible? > > > > The Answer is: Who Benefits? > > > > You figure it out! > > > > Note: If all of this is discouraging to you, there is a Bright > Side. Human > > governments ARE NOT MEANT to work well. They will ALL fail. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 00:47:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: greetings from florida: biochemical subtropical warning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = absolute terrorism of broken permutation meaning decathection: greetings from florida: biochemical subtropical warning anthrax - spread-spore-post-bruise-anthrax-surgery - [blahblahblah clash death of cultic civilzations] - brought to you by magic anthrax florida - anthrax-spore-surgery-spread-post-bruise - anthrax-spore-surgery-spread- anthrax-spread-bruise-surgery-spore-post - anthrax-spread-bruise-surgery- anthrax-spread-post-surgery-bruise-spore - anthrax-spread-post-bruise- anthrax-spread-spore-bruise-post-surgery - anthrax-spread-surgery-spore- anthrax-spread-spore-surgery-post-bruise - anthrax-spread-spore-surgery- anthrax-spread-surgery-bruise-spore-post - anthrax-spread-surgery-bruise- anthrax-surgery-bruise - spread-spore-post-anthrax-bruise-surgery - spread- anthrax-surgery-post-spore-bruise - spread-anthrax-surgery-post-bruise- bruise - anthrax-post-spread-surgery-bruise-spore - anthrax-post-spread- bruise - anthrax-post-surgery-spread-bruise-spore - anthrax-post-surgery- bruise - anthrax-surgery-spore-spread-bruise-post - anthrax-surgery-spore- bruise-post-surgery-spore - anthrax-spore-spread-surgery-post-bruise - bruise-post-surgery-spread-spore - anthrax-bruise-post-surgery-spore- bruise-spore-spread-post-surgery - anthrax-bruise-spore-surgery-spread- bruise-spore-surgery - anthrax-post-spread-bruise-surgery-spore - anthrax- bruise-spore-surgery - spread-anthrax-post-bruise-surgery-spore - spread- bruise-spread-post-surgery - anthrax-spore-bruise-surgery-spread-post - bruise-surgery-post-spore-spread - anthrax-bruise-post-spread-spore- post-bruise - anthrax-spread-surgery-spore-bruise-post - anthrax-spread- post-bruise-spore - anthrax-surgery-spread-bruise-spore-post - anthrax- post-bruise-spore-surgery-spread - anthrax-post-bruise-surgery-spread- post-spore - anthrax-spread-bruise-post-spore-surgery - anthrax-spread- post-spore - anthrax-spread-post-spore-surgery-bruise - anthrax-spread- post-spore-bruise-surgery - anthrax-spread-post-surgery-spore-bruise - spore - anthrax-surgery-post-bruise-spore-spread - anthrax-surgery-bruise- spore - spread-anthrax-surgery-bruise-spore-post - spread-anthrax-surgery- spore-anthrax-bruise-surgery-post - spread-spore-anthrax-bruise-post- spore-post-bruise - spread-anthrax-surgery-spore-bruise-post - spread- spore-post-bruise-surgery - anthrax-spread-spore-bruise-surgery-post - spore-surgery-post-bruise-anthrax - spread-spore-surgery-bruise-anthrax- spread - anthrax-post-bruise-spread-spore-surgery - anthrax-post-bruise- spread - spread-anthrax-spore-surgery-post-bruise - spread-anthrax-spore- spread-bruise-spore - anthrax-surgery-post-spore-spread-bruise - anthrax- spread-bruise-surgery-post - anthrax-spore-spread-bruise-post-surgery - spread-spore-post - anthrax-surgery-bruise-spread-post-spore - anthrax- spread-surgery - anthrax-spore-bruise-post-surgery-spread - anthrax- surgery - spread-spore-surgery-anthrax-post-bruise - spread-spore-surgery- surgery-bruise - anthrax-spore-post-spread-bruise-surgery - anthrax-spore- surgery-bruise - anthrax-spore-spread-post-bruise-surgery - anthrax-spore- surgery-spread-bruise-post-spore - anthrax-surgery-spore-spread-post- surgery-spread-spore-post-bruise - anthrax-surgery-spread-spore-bruise- [blahblahblah clash of blood-dust biochemical subtropical warning]+++++++ - ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:10:36 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Some links worth looking at MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron. You must do a lot of surfing and reading! Good on you....you are also in my book one of the world's greatest poets: in any age. Brilliant concept your sentence books...Hence you are the kind of or the "side" of Big Bad Him Americaa I'd defend against a sustained and big attack by a truly fascist attack.But I'll still argue the toss!! Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Silliman" To: Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 5:20 AM Subject: Some links worth looking at > I find these to be the most thought provoking links right now. That doesn't > mean that I find them encouraging or agree with all of them. > > Ron > > Salman Rushdie's comments > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55876-2001Oct1.html > > The reaction of Hardt & Negri > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43930-2001Sep29.html > > Best analysis of left fundamentalism by co-editor of Dissent > http://www.theamericanprospect.com/print/V12/18/walzer-m.html > > How the right exploits left fundamentalism > http://www.andrewsullivan.com/text/main_articletext1.html > > Al Qaeda in Europe & Chechnya > http://www.public-i.org/story_01_100401.htm > > Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan > http://www.rawa.org/ > > Rand Corporation's Netwar thesis > http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR789/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:24:24 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth. true but how the Afghanis live is not our business, or its not relevant here: unless of course one is saying "well look we arent as bad as that" and so on. And that's true....there are hundreds of atrocious regimes and 'teror" is everywhere: its just the extent of it, the DEGREE of terror, the amount of "thumbscrewing" ... we are living in a societty built on (amongst other things the threat or potential threat of violence and terror: and terror is being used now by the US military and the British and I think the French and the Russians who arent known for their humanity. Long live the American POEPLE and long live resistancve to the US Fascists and US Military lead by Bush. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson" To: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" > I also think of the dear Afghani-American young women I had in my classes > when I was teaching comp around the Bay Area. Two of them (twins) brought up > a video their uncle (who still lives in Afghanistan) had sent the family of > a neighbor man being killed, in a slow and symbolic way, for having shaved > his beard. > All these young women, or most of them, came to school wearing their > scarves, and either tight jeans or minis. I figured they changed after > leaving home in the a.m. > > Elizabeth Treadwell > > > "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans > Willard Trask) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 02:08:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" In-Reply-To: <000e01c14de7$ddd82a40$752337d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >>>anyway, the Taleban are who they are. Let them be. It's hard even for me to do cultural relativism on this one. These are the schmucks who have decreed that women are not to receive medical treatment and sometimes stone women to death for being insufficiently covered by body sacks. I certainly think our administration's current actions are, to use the Buddhist jargon, not "skillful means." Just thoughts. Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:15:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: megan minka lola camille roy Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services Subject: Information --- the situation of women in afghanistan MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Salon.com has run an excellent article on underground women working against the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Here is the URL: > http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/10/02/fatima/index.html camille roy -- http://www.grin.net/~minka "If this is going to be a calm equality, there will be no people." (L. Scalapino) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:43:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR [the architect of The Towers: Minoru Yamasaki] Comments: cc: ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Geoffrey Gatza wrote: > today considering the unusual weather in Buffalo. Today as Peter Jennings reports the sun shone as ice hailed down. ------------------------------------------------------- Dear Geoffrey, Charles, spirit of Isaac Rosenberg (d. 1918): That frosty I Ching hexagram-like meterology report is a reminder that this godgiven List is, yes, it is a Buffalo List (space-time can become so cyber, so Virilio) . . . For you hinterland Buffalo-ans, blowing on your knuckles ("Tom's a-cold"): Is it common knowledge among your good citizens there that the MANUFACTURERS & TRADERS CO. building (1967) in your fair city was designed by the architect Minoru Yamasaki, the architect of the Twin Towers (one of the forty-eight Danaid-like sisters of our lost gemini)? I wonder if the Manufacturers & Traders building looks nice. I haven't been able to find any photos of her. While "taking a break" from architecture and convalescing from stomach ulcers in '54, Yamasaki, a Nesei (second-generation Japanese) went to Japan to study the concept of TOKONOMA, "an alcove that is the spiritual and artistic focus of a Japanese home . . . often used to display hanging scrolls, flowers and objects d'art" (Baulch, Vivian M., The Detroit News [date?]). "On his return home Yamasaki built his own tokonoma in his living room devoted to small Japanese dolls and a small vase." He was someone who had faced disappointment and the undoing of one of his artworks during his lifetime. "His Pruitt-Igoe Housing project, built in St. Louis in 1955, gained notoriety after officials dynamited it 20 years later as a failure" (Baulch). I wish I were good at traveling, so I could go about as on a pilgrimage from Yamasaki to Yamasaki, keeping a Basho-like journal of the voyages, prose portions followed by haikus. And now would be The Perfect Time, with low, low airfare prices that would have been affordable--- even to Minoru during his youth! when he put himself through the University of Washington by working summers at salmon canneries in Alaska for 17 cents an hour. It might be gratifying and comforting in some way, to see Minoru's other works of the imagination, to go inside them, . . . like being enwombed in the external manifestations of a man's mind. Since so many of you dears live scattered geographically throughout these fifty glorious States, and throughout "the world" (Sweden),--- here's a partial list of Minoru's buildings, below. Perhaps you rugged types in your $155.00 Timberland Classic Premium Waterproof 8" Boots would have no trouble traveling about (unlike an old lady who wears her stockings rolled down about her shins, supporting herself in her plodding water-around-the-ankles pace by leaning on a wheelie pushcart to go out shopping for Pop Tarts at 2:43 in the morning, or a crumb bun) and would enjoy visiting one of these habitable sculptures (in the spirit of Gaston Bachelard's book, ~The Poetics of Space~), maybe then lovingly back-channeling/bare-backing me/the List about standing face-to-face or going inside the remaining three-dimensionalities of Minoru's imagination. Apologies for getting off-topic (poetry) by posting on another artistic medium (architecture), but those Muses, too, were sisters. Bon voyage! Luv, JJ A partial list: Urban Redevelopment Plan, St. Louis, 1952 Gratiot Urban Redevelopment Project, Detroit, 1954 University School, Grosse Pointe, 1954 U.S. Consulate, Kobe, Japan, 1955 Pruit-Igoe Public Housing, St. Louis, 1955 Lambert-St.Louis Airport Terminal, 1956 McGregor Memorial Conference Center, Wayne State University, Detroit, 1958 Reynolds Metals Regional Sales Office, Southfield, 1959 Michigan Consolidated Gas Co., Detroit, 1963 U.S. Pavilion, World Agricultural Fair, New Delhi, India, 1959 Dhahran Air Terminal, Dhahran Saudi Arabia, 1961 Federal Science Pavilion, Seattle World's Fair, 1962 Queen Emma Gardens, Honolulu, 1964 North Shore Congregation Israel, Glenco, Ill., 1964 Northwestern National Life Insurance Co., Minneapolis, 1964 Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, Princeton University, 1965 Century Plaza Hotel, Los Angeles, 1966 IBM Office Building, Seattle, 1964 Manufacturers and Traders Trust Co., Buffalo, 1967 World Trade Center, New York, 1976 Eastern Airlines Terminal, Logan International Airport, Boston, 1969 Horace Mann Educators Insurance Co., Springfield, Ill., 1979 Temple Beth El, Birmingham, 1974 Century Plaza Towers, Los Angeles, 1975 Colorado National Bank, Denver, 1974 Bank of Oklahoma, Tulsa, 1977 Performing Arts Center, Tulsa, 1976 Rainer Bank Tower, Seattle, 1977 Federal Reserve Bank, Richmond, Va., 1978 Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency Head Office, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 1981 ounder's Hall, Shinji Shumeikai, Shiga Prefecture, Japan, 1982 Eastern Province International Airport, Saudi Arabia, 1985 ------------------------------------------------------- "... 01100100011101010110110101100010 ..." -- Pom2 (Brooklyn, NY, volume # 1 issue # 1), p. 70 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:28:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: The language of our times In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>David!!!! >> >>So glad to see your signature here among us again -- I'm out here in the >>wilds of Pennsylvania, trying to get to the heart of the matter -- send >>poetry, quick! >> >> >>At 03:38 PM 10/2/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>>Isnt "massacre" the word for it? D >> >> > >Bromige should not be wasting his time writing e-mail; he is the poet >laureate of Sonoma County, and they are fast approaching grape >harvest. He has a lot of poems to write about the vintage. Dont >pester him to communicate lesser stuff. >-- >George Bowering >Freelance reader >Fax 604-266-9000 Not poems, George, but wine-labels--a far more challenging form, almost Japanese in its strictures. (1) compare the wine to stuff it never in 1000 years cd taste like (2) comment on the soil wherein it's grown w/o once using the word "friable" (3) mention "sun" and "fog" to make both sound attractive and dont forget "coolong ocean breezes" (hand me my longjohns), all this in 50 eords or preferably less. You will be promised a case of wine in lieu of cash and eventually will receive a single bottle, which the owner will drink with you in a 1: 4 ratio, not to mention his wife. Quaffing, that is, her share. Never mind, the skinny-dipping was a tobust, piquant blend. Anyway, you have your own achievments to brood upon. It's the 40th anniversary of TISH this month, which I see you-all are celebrating on my birthday. Gt Oaks from little acorns grow, & my blessings on the polls (& polis) of yr illusttrious band of Merry Men (aka Tishites).. Where is the Sheriff of Norringham (Basil Rathbone) today? You rid the Greenwood of Canadian verse of him, praise be. And yet he was once so influential--noone at Court could pull strings w/o Knotting em. This is actually a heavily encoded hymn of hate toward the Taliban. Broms =DFend new jokes a.s.a.p. Broms ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:59:53 +0000 Reply-To: lawrence.upton@britishlibrary.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Jennifer I agree, largely but capitalism as it is practiced now is quite different to the practice of merchant classes in time passed even if there are overlaps but it isn't just US, or even all of America... it's everywhere EU is seen as left in some quarters... ha! you watch cheers L >>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 02:56:28 -0400 >>From: Jennifer Ley >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>CC: >>Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes >> > but who knowsa, > maybe American capitalism will continue on its merry exploitative and > warlile way for ever: Richard please. American capitalism? We're writers, yes? We use words well? A few corrections: Capitalism isn't inherently American, I believe there were merchant classes in almost every early society, and not just in the West. And, if we'd like to point fingers at capitalism, let's remember how seldom it wears a national face. Corporations are rarely civic minded when it comes to the bottom line. As a citizen of the US who certainly does not always, or often, support the political choices her government makes, I am aware that I do benefit from those choices, as does any other citizen of any other country allied with the US. That includes the ability to use the technology that makes a list like this possible. I don't consider your comments whacko. I'd tend to say they're not thought through very well, and reflect a rather predictable response to the US and what is often known as Corporate America -- jeeze, there's that darn America thing again Unfortunately, we're all a bit more interconnected than we at times wish to admit, which makes analyis of situations like the one which now confronts us just a bit more complicated. Jennifer _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:02:33 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: an adjustment to AR's algebra MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All this true but eg my anger or disagreement with the US is not with the great things of America: dont forget that culturally you are in a unique place which has contributed immensely to human culture and progress: as Bill Austin ssaid to me "dont beat yourself up" this said the "bad" things, the evil things, are there too: eg the very strong connection of Bush etal with the oil industry: the fact that a pipeline was (forgie the pun) in the pipeline to go through Afghanistan and the realtionship of the US with those countries over there that a vastly rich in oil: the New Zealand Listener had a very interesting take on all this today. Whatever happens I am never against the American people - contra the Big Bad Capitalists and if I was in NY I'd be in there helping dont worry. But I'd still be a pain in the "ass" as you folks say! But in the end I am a human. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson" To: Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:56 PM Subject: an adjustment to AR's algebra > Arundhati Roy wrote: > >Could it be that the stygian > anger >that led to the attacks has its taproot not in >American freedom and > democracy, but in the US > >government's record of commitment and support to >exactly the opposite > >things-to military and > economic >terrorism, insurgency, military dictatorship, >religious bigotry > and unimaginable genocide > (outside >America)? > > > > Just a reminder, the US government, the US economy, the US's sense of > religious superiority, and perhaps above all the US military were borne of > UNIMAGINABLE GENOCIDE WITHIN OUR "BORDERS". OK, let's try not to forget that > too, too often! > > For the record, I'd add that much of the US's ideals and particular forms of > freedoms, democracy, feminism stems from Native American philosophies and > customs. > > How both these things are true is one of the conundra. > > Elizabeth Treadwell > > > "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans > Willard Trask) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:02:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Relative $$ Comments: To: British Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit About ninety missiles have been fired into Afghanistan over the last 2 days. Each missile costs about 1 million dollars. This amounts to a total (so far) of 90 million dollars -- a sum which corresponds to the total Afghan state budget for the year 2000. ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 POASIS: Selected Poems 1986-1999 Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 go to: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/poasis.htm Email: joris@ albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 00:38:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bruce andrews Subject: Bruce Andrews Poetics Talk and Author Page additions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Apologies for my epistolary aphasia. But let me announce a few things. I presented a Talk, "The Poetics of L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E," here in New York City in a monthly Talk series, 'Textual Operations,' at Whitebox, It's something of a summary statement from me about reading this work , with some new twists and some comparisons with hypermedia work & I'd be pleased to get some comments from people on the EPC list. (It's too long to post, about 18 pages typescript). Ideally, I'd like to have it up on my EPC Author page with comments appended. To make that possible, it's now online at the new Poetics discussion site where comments can be left. And it's also online on Ubu at Also, I never got around to announcing my new book, LIP SERVICE (my recasting of Dante's PARADISO) out from Coach House Press in Toronto. It's now online on the Coach House site and linked through my EPC Author Page, all 400 pages of it. I've also put up a bunch of new material and about a dozen essays on my work (beyond what's still in print in the AERIAL anthology) -- to try to make the Author Page into a solider and more useful scholarly resource. Take a look. And keep in touch. Bruce Andrews __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:20:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Senghor Comments: To: British Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Happy 95th Birthday, Léopold Sédar Senghor! Here's a poem of his (borrowed from _Poems for the Millennium, vol 1_): MAN AND BEAST (for three tabalas or war drums) I name you Evening, O ambiguous Evening, you fluttering leaf. This is the hour of our most primal fears, raised from ancestral bowels. Get back stupid faces of shadows, blowing evil from your snout! Get back in the name of palm and water, In the name of the Teller-of-deepest-secrets! But the Beast is formless in the fertile mud nourishing Tsetse flies and gnats, toads and snakes, Poisonous spiders and spiked lizards. What sudden clash without sparks of flint! What shock And not a glimmer of passion. The huge Man's feet skate upon the slime, where his strength Sinks knee-deep, bound by leaves of poisonous plants. His thoughts float into the mist. Silent battle with no sparks of flint, to the rhythm Of the stretched drum of his breast and the lone rhythm Of the tom-tom beaten by the sinister Grand-Rayee drum. Sorcerer who will announce the victor! Claws streak his back with lightning and from raging clouds The whirlwind skims his loins and smooths the grass at his sex The mahogany trees shudder down to their painful roots, But the Man plunges his lightning spear into the late moonglowing Entrails. The golden brow harnesses the clouds Where icy eagles soar, and thoughts circle his brow His cardinal eye is the serpent's head. The struggle in the darkness goes on too long! Three ages of one thousandfold night. The strength of the Man, his feet heavy in the fertile swamp. The strength of the Man, the reeds hampering his effort. His warmth the warm primeval entrails, The strength of the Man's inebriation is the hot wine of the Beast's Blood and the froth bubbling in his heart Ha! more millet beer for the Initiate! A long comet cry streaks across the night, a great noise Sounds from a judicious voice. And the Man floors the Beast, Talking in tongues of the danced song. He floors him with a great burst of laughter in a gleaming Dance danced under the rainbow of seven vowels. Hail to the Rising Sun Lion whose look can kill Hail to the Tamer of the bush, You, Mbarodi! Lord over mindless forces. And the lake blooms with water lilies, dawn of divine laughter. Translation from the French by Melvin Dixon ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 POASIS: Selected Poems 1986-1999 Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 go to: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/poasis.htm Email: joris@ albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:02:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: The waving of flags MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel, Like you, I question what seems to be a return to business as usual on the part of the media and advertisers - let's sell more flags, etc. But i'm having trouble seing how poetry can transmute this into a new vision. From my reading of poetry's role in the past, poetry written for a reason or to promote an ideology tends to become "message" poetry. The classical example for me is Trotsky's _Poetry and Revolution_ call which was taken over and led to Socialist Realism. The other impulse which was in the air at the time was overwhelmed and driven out of the market-place - Kruchenyk, for example, or Khlebnikov - was toward experimentation and the materiality of the poem. If poetry is to have any effect it seems to me that it should (there I go myself being prescriptive!) NOT be ideological? tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 11:15 AM Subject: The waving of flags > Hatred of the US is only a focal point. At bottom, religious fanatics are > looking for something which that makes them feel a part of a cause larger > than themselves. In part, some of us had this in the 1960s, in the Civil > Rights Movement, the Anti-War Movement, in Hippie Culture, Feminism, etc. > In this sense, no matter how misguided, how destructive, and > self-destructive, the terrorists are, their lives, and their deaths, have a > larger commitment to them than buying an SUV or a ten room house. Americans > run to their churches, but do they find a larger life there, or feel good > solace? In advising people to return to their normal lives, the mayor of New > York said, "Go shopping." > > The waving of flags, however misguided, is a hunger for a nation, for ideas > larger an the individual, not for an economic system, one that, in any case, > is failing us. We need to rigorously question the belief-systems that are > strangling this nation, that are separating us as a people, from each other, > and from the rest of the world. And we need a poetry, arts, that people > don't go to for comfort, but for visions, for ideas, for what questions > beliefs they take for granted, whether religious, economic, cultural, > aesthetical....We need to learn how to, and to teach how to, live larger > lives. > > -Joel > > Joel Weishaus > Center for Excellence in Writing > Portland State University > Portland, Oregon. > http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:22:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Organization: Boog Literature Subject: Boog 10th Anniversary Party Nov. 9, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit SAVE THIS DATE Boog 10th Anniversary Party Friday November 9, 2001, 7pm C-Note 157 Avenue C (&10th St.) NYC $5 performances by: Anselm Berrigan • Lee Ann Brown • Wanda Phipps • Jessica Stein • Ian Wilder and music from Edmund Berrigan • Ruth Gordon (Sean Cole and Aaron Kiely doing ’70s and ’80s covers) and Olive Juice recording artists Major Matt Mason (http://olivejuicemusic.com/majormattmasonusa.html) and Schwervon (http://olivejuicemusic.com/schwervon.html) email booglit@theeastvillageeye.com or call 212-206-8899 for further information hosted by Boog Literature editor David Kirschenbaum ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:37:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi friends. not long ago someone mentioned that some of the comments/thoughts on this list have found themselves in broadcast media, which made me question what kind of action folks on this list have been taking (outside of poetics) re political issues. whether anti- semi- or pro- war, civil liberties, etc, how active is the poetics community in our democratic process? letters/calls to officials, contact w/media corp.s, demonstrations, or other contributions? volunteerism? bumper stickers? i'd also like to hear opinions re its possible effectiveness. . . thanks, hassen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:49:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Collins, Corbett, Barrett, Luacanno, Torra read at Brookline Booksmith Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This week at Brookline Booksmith: Wednesday 10/10 6 PM Billy Collins Thursday 10/11 7 PM William Corbett and Ed Barrett Sunday 10/14 6 PM Joe Torra and Christopher Sawyer-Lucanno Call for more information. Hope to see you. Be well. --jim -- Jim Behrle, Events Director Brookline Booksmith 279 Harvard St. Brookline, MA 02446 (617) 739 6002 [phone and voice mail] (617) 734 9125 [fax] events@brooklinebooksmith.com http://www.brooklinebooksmith.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 01:32:20 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: WIlbur Jenkins Subject: WAR POEM 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WAR POEM 1 war war more war the pink I'd die for stinks now Find a language for this for this war this war my torn eye sends light ripped ripped a- part a- part -Jenkins ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:04:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Temporal Lobe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Temporal Lobe," the ninth section of INSIDE THE SKILL-HOUSE, is now complete, and can be accessed through: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/skull/intro.htm -Joel Joel Weishaus Center for Excellence in Writing Portland State University Portland, Oregon. http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 00:34:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Jeffrey's accusations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jeffrey Jullich wrote: "Strangely, some of the parties most strongly denouncing the latest presumed heteronym stink bomb were, in August, intimately involved in sustaining and ~commissioning~ identity theft. . . . What seemed wrong to me this summer was the identity theft (with its near-criminality), the character assasination, the homophobia, the hate literature . . . Note, too (with underlining, please): from those whose double/multiple identities I've been able to trace down, it also seems to remain an exclusively ~male~ game (and heterosexual male). There must be important feminist, gender reasons . . ." [etc.] Hi Jeffrey, As the person more or less directly under attack above, I assume you’re expecting me to respond. I will, and I’m sorry if it goes on forever. (I want to be clear.) You seem very upset by the Ashbery interview and poems I published in Readme. You see them as examples of "near-criminal" "identity theft" that have, as their underlying motivations "character assassination" "homophobia" and "hate." You then proceed to make a characterization about literary "identity theft" -- that it is a "heterosexual" "male" game, that women & non-heterosexuals are somehow not interested in this kind of approach, and that (I’m speculating at this point and may be overstating your case here), the intent of "identity theft" (or identity blurring or projection) is largely malicious. I think these are all fairly serious charges to make, and I don’t want to dismiss them out of hand. But, bear with me, if you will, because I’ve thought about this quite a bit, and have come to very different conclusions than you have. You may disagree, and it’s not like I’m going to delete whatever counter-argument or –proposition or whatever you might want to make. If I felt the interview and poems were "homophobic" and "hate"-ful, if I felt they were instances of "character assassination" I wouldn’t have published them in the first place. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t. But, that I don’t see it. It would help if you could maybe do a close reading of them, and parse it out for me. So far, you’ve just made accusations about them, and my own character, for publishing them. Repeatedly. So, okay, let’s talk about it. Seriously, let’s talk about it … let’s take it out of the abstract realm & into the "specific instance." You’re going to run into trouble with the poems, so I might as well save your breath so far as you might read them as examples of "homosexual panic." The guy who wrote the imitation poems isn’t heterosexual. He seems pretty open & calm about that aspect of his life, frankly. He’s also a huge fan of Ashbery’s writing. The "Ashbery" poems -- however you might be misreading them, not knowing their author personally -- are tributes. You can find them, under the real author’s own name, in a book he just had published last month. That might help put them into some larger context for you. As for the interview, Jacques has said that he feels Ashbery is the most important English-language poet of the latter half of the twentieth century. I believe him when he says that -- I mean, I believe that he believes that about the value of Ashbery’s work. (I have my own favorites.) The fake interview is a kind of essay for him. It’s not a "first," by the way. Take a look at Jack Kimball’s essay on John Wieners in the first issue of Readme. You’ll see there that midway through the essay, it becomes an interview between Kimball and Wieners. I suppose you could make the charge here of "identity theft" -- but, what motives would you ascribe to Kimball, I wonder, for doing that? Jack is not heterosexual. He loves Wieners’s poetry. He’s taken an imaginative or literary leap in creating a faux interview with his subject. Robert Gluck’s _Jack the Modernist_ was a novel all my friends and I were reading when we were undergrads at San Francisco State in the mid-1980s. I knew something about the "new novelists" at that time, but I don’t think I was yet fully clued in to the extent to which they used pastiche as a literary device. I assumed _Jack the Modernist_ was "pure Gluck." A week ago or so, a cartoonist friend of mine, Rebecca Levi, gave me an old copy of _Dear World_, a magazine from the early 90s in which the late Steve Abbott interviews John Karr, who was a semi-famous & I think much loved porno reviewer in the 80s & 90s (I don’t know if he still does reviews). The interview is preceded by this remark of Abbott’s: "[John Karr’s] reviews for BAR, THE NEW YORK NATIVE, DRUMMER and THE MANIFEST READER have been so influential that Robert Gluck used a pastiche of them in his novel _Jack the Modernist_." I went back to Gluck’s book to see if I could tell what was Karr’s. I’m guessing it was the chapter titled "Saint Venus," but that’s pure speculation and probably wrong. Gluck completely integrated -- or, you might say, "stole" Karr’s identity -- so thoroughly, I can’t tell where Gluck leaves off & Karr begins. Karr and Gluck are both gay. Gluck was not "panicked" by Karr’s reviews. Gluck is one of the "new novelists." Others include Kevin Killian, Dodie Bellamy, Kathy Acker, Steve Abbott, Bruce Boone. Pastiche -- "identity theft" -- however you want to call it, playing with identity was & I guess still may be a fairly significant aspect of their literary output. These are all either women, or men who don’t identify as "heterosexual." I think, for instance, that Kathy Acker -- famous for both completely fucking with identity as well as "hijacking" others’ texts -- would maybe wonder about your notion that this tactic was a "male" "heterosexual" game. Wanda Phipps also talks about blurring gender -- not necessarily as a strategy, but as a matter of course -- when she writes, in the interview I did with her in Readme 4. You can read her interview & see for yourself whether or not what she says sheds any light on this subject. I remember seeing Lori Lubeski read her "boy" poems in San Francisco in the mid-80s. They involved "the boy" going to this or that porno outlet, being both excited and I think either disgusted or guilt-wracked, although not super-disgusted nor super-guilt-wracked. (It was largely a kind of confession.) I didn’t take this to be Lori’s disgust with men checking out porno: it seemed pretty clear that "the boy" was Lori herself. An identity she projected herself into. That was emphasized when I read Rebecca Levi’s first-person accounts of becoming "the man" in her zine, _Your Head on a Platter_. In her case, this particular "identity theft" (or I guess "gender theft"?) was a huge sexual turn-on. (I’ve talked with her about it since, so in this case it’s not an educated guess.) Going back further, what about Fernando Pessoa, inventor of 72 heteronyms? "Antinous," generally regarded as his "most ambitious English poem," (written as someone else) which "describes a homosexual love affair through a mixture of frank eroticism and perplexingly ambiguous metaphors. More importantly, the poem relates the question of love to the mysteries which Pessoa ponders in almost all his poetry: the nature of reality, the true meaning of identity and the authenticity of experience." Pessoa is I guess a question mark, so far as sexual identity goes: according to his biographers, he never had sex. Was "Antinous" an example of homosexual panic? Homophobia? Repressed desire? I’d want a very close reading of that poem to convince me it was malicious or homophobic in intent. And a really well-researched argument to convince me he was definitely hetero. Is it fair or relevant to mention "George Sand" in this case? (Probably not fair, I guess, though it does seem to complicate any assertion that an "identity theft" is by nature "hetero male.") Your arguments, as I read them, Jeffrey, as well-intentioned as I suspect they are, are finally too simple, too black & white for me to engage with in any serious way at the moment. You come at this literary device as a moralist for whom this particular act equals this particular crime, rather than as someone reading a large swath of literary instances and attempting to place the offending instance within any particular context and making some qualitative judgment, which would (I’m not just being rhetorical) be appreciated. "Identity theft" is not -- as your argument insists -- some slum populated by malicious or freaked out heterosexual men. It’s a literary device that a lot of very different people have taken on and used for myriad purposes. I realize you’ve said that you’re of "mixed feelings" about all of this, but even then, there’s no evidence from your postings, which seem purely accusatory, that you’ve thought about how various writers might take on identities, play with them, see through them, write through them, or … well, or anything. It’s as though, for you, the only possible reason someone might write Ashbery poems or an imagined interview with Ashbery is somehow to discredit, defame, slander, and otherwise harm the guy. For sexual-preference reasons, to boot. You’ve had no compunction about posting several times about this, each time damning my own character & that of those who participated in this apparently heinous activity. I hope you won’t shy away from actual dialog about this. But, you’re going to have to bring something of substance to the table here. Bring it, or please stop harassing me in public. Thanks, Gary _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:09:55 -0800 Reply-To: arshile@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Organization: Arshile: A Magazine of the Arts Subject: Virus (?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Derafd ListSERV: I don't know what your policy is about warning members re viruses, but I thought I would pass this one along. Sorry to bother you. Mark Salerno Subject: Fw: Virus Warning Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:14:26 -0400 From: "Vernon G. Current" To: "Thomas Dupree" , "Zane Anderson" , "Ronald K. Masters" , "Roland Lambert" , "Robi-Ann Briggs" , "Rhode Island Tree Council" , "Philip Stocker, JR." , "Norma Willis" , "Margaret Brookner" , "Kellie Armstrong" , "John W. Jones" , "John T. Campanini,Jr." , "Jaime Connors" , "Frank Gallo" , "Antonia Hays" , ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Virus Warning > fyi, > > Mike > > > ----- Forwarded by Michael P. Marietta/US-Corporate/3M/US on 10/08/01 04:48 > PM ----- > > LOUUNITEX@aol.c > om To: cynthia.alfieri@mci.com > Stickman52@juno.com > 10/08/01 11:14 LOUUNITEX@aol.com > AM palfieri@squadronlaw.com > KBaker2505@aol.com > josh.berkowitz@gs.com > Lbevevino@aol.com > Chasboss@aol.com > sbrown@fischercunnane.com > harryc@intelligenttech.com > BigEConfer@aol.com > janecoury@hotmail.com > marissacourey@hotmail.com > noah@rrhc.com > ADelisio@aol.com > steveunitex@email.msn.com > depillis@balladspahr.com > Devinedesignsinc@aol.com > NightShift104@aol.com > Mfahrig123@aol.com > jonathan.b.fetner@rssmb.com > GRAMMY28C@cs.com > rfetner@intermedia.com > Suefet@aol.com > fflick@mail.montcopa.org > bfrey@nep.net > kfrey@desupernet.net > burth@dompave.com > ruth_p_hatton@sbphrd.com > pheynen@carolinaasphalt.com > Two4sunshine@aol.com > jkaram@optonline.net > LAKSAIL@aol.com > terry.king@marriott.com > blummis@qvc.com > Michael P. Marietta/US-Corporate/3M/US@3M-Corporate > bmcfalls@sungardrs.com > Stevenson@aol.com > jmoderski@btmna.com > EMyer808@cs.com > j-olsen@juno.com > frompala@fischercunnane.com > djsapelly@princesshouse.com > wschoenh@marshall-stevens.com > StaplesConstruction@msn.com > WINOLAW@aol.com > woiker@earthlink.net > cc: > Subject: Virus Warning > > > > > > > > Hi - This looks like a bad one that's coming. Forward > this to others. Please read and forward to everyone > you know...... > > DO NOT OPEN "NEW PICTURES OF FAMILY" It is a virus > that will erase your whole "C" drive. It will come to > you in the form of a E-mail from a familiar person. I > repeat a friend sent it to me, but called & warned me > before I opened it. He was not so lucky and now he > can't even start his computer! Forward this to > everyone in your address book. I would rather receive > this 25 times than not at all. > > Also: Intel announced that a new and very destructive > virus was discovered recently. If you receive an email > called "FAMILY PICTURES," do not open it. Delete it > right away! This virus removes all dynamic link > libraries (.DLL files) from your computer. Your > computer will not be able to boot up. > > > *** WARNING FROM MAIL ADMINISTRATOR: To prevent data > loss due to email viruses, never open attachments from > an unknown contact or > ***ANY attachment ending in .Vbs or. js. > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:06:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: one more note on POG web pages and Netscape (thin line . . . ) Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit one final (I hope) message about the POG pages ( www.gopog.org ) and compatibility issues: for Netscape it's a thin line indeed: pages work fine w current Netscape 6.1, but not w slightly older 6.0. Not sure about IE back-compatibility issues (pages work fine in 5.5). Probably somewhat better since pages were composed using Microsoft's own Front Page 2002, but I'm not positive. again, apologies re this latest small footnote to the Browser Wars. Tenney mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:59:35 -0600 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Organization: housepress Subject: new from above/ground press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > new from above/ground press > > STANZAS #28 > "Strange Days" by Paul Hardacre > > free if you find it, $4 sample (add $2 international) & $20 for 5 issues > (add $5 int.)(payable to rob mclennan) > > Paul Hardacre has published widely in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, > Japan, Greece, and the United States. He is the founding editor of the > Australian CD-ROM journal, papertiger. www.papertigermedia.com > > STANZAS magazine, for long poems/sequences, published at random in Ottawa, > Ontario, Canada. previous issues include work by Helen Zisimatos, Gary > Barwin, meghan lynch, ryan fitzpatrick, George Bowering, Judith > Fitzgerald, Ian Whistle, Gerry Gilbert, rob mclennan, etc. 750 copies > distributed free around various places. exchanges welcome. > > submissions encouraged, with s.a.s.e. & good patience (i take forever) of > up to 28 pages. c/o above/ground press, rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 > > complete bibliography & backlist availability now on-line at > www.track0.com/rob_mclennan > > -- > poet/editor/publisher... ed. STANZAS mag & Shadowy Technicians: New Ottawa > Poets (Broken Jaw)... pub., above/ground press...coord., Small Press Action > Network - Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 > www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 6th coll'n - harvest: a book of signifiers ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 17:25:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: on what to call them MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those who are looking for a new vocabulary to describe the events of September 11, might I suggest the words "Hiroshima" and "Nagasaki"? Also, the words of Celan come to mind again: Ein Droehnen: es ist die Wahrheit selbst unter die Menschen getreten, mitten ins Metaphergestoeber. George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:58:25 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Humanitarian Airdrops Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Probably most here have seen this from MSF but for those few who haven't it again shows WHY & How America loses friends -- a basic irksome hypocrisy - its efforts under the guise of world freedom or humanitarian concerns are simply based on its own self interests & that's that. 37,500 air-dropped single rations of GI meals, whose kidding who, but what's new, the same old= , sad story :-( The UN estimates that 55,000 tons of food needs to be delivered to Afghanistan every month to feed around six million people and that would require about 1,800 separate Hercules flights a month which the US just can't do. Dropping a few thousand ration packs is wholly inadequate. A credible, carefully planned international relief effort must be put togethe= r soon otherwise seven and a half million people could be dead come spring -- as one spokesperson commented, "an interesting way to win hearts and minds.= " =20 Reuven BenYuhmin -------------------------------------- Information dated 08.10.2001 MSF rejects link of humanitarian and military actions Airdrops of food and medical aid described as of 'negligible value' and 'potentially dangerous' =20 Press release, Islamabad, Oct 8, 2001: The international medical aid agency M=E9decins Sans Fronti=E8res (MSF), which has been working in Afghanistan since 1979, today cast doubt on the so-called 'humanitarian airdrops' by US and British military forces, which have accompanied the military strikes agains= t Afghanistan over the last 24-hours. Such action does not answer the needs o= f the Afghan people and is likely to undermine attempts to deliver substantia= l aid to the most vulnerable. MSF's Dr Jean-Herv=E9 Bradol, speaking from Pakistan, explained that the so-called 'humanitarian' action, was in fact a purely propaganda tool, of little real value to the Afghan people. Moreover, the deliberate adoption by the military of a 'humanitarian' purpose, was likely to cause real problems for truly independent non-governmental aid organisations who are less likely to be perceived as impartial actors in the future. "How will the Afghan population know in the future if an offer of humanitarian aid does not hide a military operation?" questions Dr Bradol. "We have seen many times before, for example in Somalia, the problems cause= d for both the vulnerable population and for aid agencies when the military try to both fight a war and deliver aid at the same time." Dr Bradol explained that the real impact of the much-vaunted 37,500 single day rations on the burgeoning nutritional crisis within Afghanistan was likely to be minimal. "What is needed is large scale convoys of basic foodstuffs, rather than single meals designed for soldiers. Until yesterday the UN and aid agencies such as ourselves were still able to get some food convoys into Afghanistan= . Due to the airstrikes the UN have stopped all convoys, and we will find delivering aid also much more difficult." Doctors from MSF also expressed concern at the reported airdropping of medical supplies. "Medical relief is not the same as dropping medicines by plane. Unless they are administered by qualified medical staff, medicines can actually do more harm than good", said Dr Bradol. "Dropping a few cases of drugs and food in the middle of the night during air raids, without knowing who is going to collect them, is virtually useless and may even be dangerous". M=E9decins Sans Fronti=E8res therefore rejects the idea of a humanitarian coalition alongside the military coalition, as requested by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair, and calls for the imperative necessity of independent humanitarian action.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:31:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Coultas, Prevallet & Burger for 2nd Story Books Oct 19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone, I'd like to say there's a Book Party for Second Story Books. New narrative works by Brenda Coultas, Kristin Prevallet, and Mary Burger. Teachers and Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West, 7th floor Oct 19, 7 p.m., $5.00 Please come. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:04:16 +0100 Reply-To: "julie.buxton" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "julie.buxton" Subject: new address Comments: To: Wilton Azevedo , Wilton Azevedo , webmaster@virgintrains.co.uk, virtualwriters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com, virtualwriters@yahoogroups.com, virtualwriters@egroups.com, Victoria Earp , Trace School , "Thomas, Sue" , "themutual.net" , TAllenTW@aol.com, Sue Phillips , Sue , Sub Voicive Poetry , strewin@pfd.co.uk, Steve May , steve duffy , Sibyl Ruth , Sibyl Ruth , Sara Cardno , samantha buxton , rt@humana.org, Richard Kerridge , Richard Francis , RGM , Poetics List Administration , Piers Taylor , philip.swift@onmail.co.uk, Peter Florence , Patricia Crummay , nigel gibbons , Neil Harris , "mthompso@tassie.net.au" , mattthepoet , martin , Marcus Moore , mamukia@mail.com, Lucy maxwell Scott , "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" , ListBot Verifier , ListBot Verifier , lexikon@topica.com, Lexikon Publishing , Lawrence Upton , kneedknot , KJSainsbury@aol.com, kim buxton , Katherine Cooper , karen Buxton , julie buxton , Jorge Luiz Antonio , "Joelle Taylor, The Poetry Society" , joanna , Jim Stoddard , JEANETTE ELSELL , james dean garside , help@ntlworld.com, hayfestival , Geoffrey Gatza , Geoffrey Gatza , Experimental Writing , E-poetr 2001 , ellenfs , Elizabeth James , elaine buxton , EGG , Debra Buxton , Debbie harris , david hart , David Bromige , ClinkElmStreet@aol.com, chris cheek , caroline , cardno sara , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, Barleyfish Workshops , Arvon at Moniack Mhor , Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone I now have a new address julie.buxton@ntlworld.com=20 Don't hesitate to use it.. bye julie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:46:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Pre-event respondents to PhillyTalks #19: texts now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Texts by pre-event respondents Marjorie Welish and Matt Hart, to the = PhillyTalks 19 exchange between Allen Fisher and Karen Mac Cormack, now = available at http://phillytalks.org. "Admirable in both Allen Fisher and Karen Mac Cormack's writings is that = there is not the manifestation of discourse for its own ironic sake." -- = Marjoie Welish "At what point does the relationship between two putatively separate = fields of knowledge [poetry and architecture] escape metaphor? When is = such a relationship not reductive?" -- Matt Hart Included are new poems by both poets. For info on this upcoming Oct 17 event, go to http://philytalks.org.=20 --Louis Cabri & Aaron Levy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:43:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Chomsky quote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >When a Federal Building was blown up in Oklahoma City, there were >immediate cries to bomb the Middle East. These terminated when it was >discovered that the perpetrator was from the US ultra-right militia >movement. The reaction was not to destroy Montana and Idaho, where the >movements are based, but to seek and capture the perpetrator, bring him >to trial, and -- crucially -- explore the grievances that lie behind >such crimes and to address the problems. Just about every crime -- >whether a robbery in the streets or colossal atrocities -- has reasons, >and commonly we find that some of them are serious and should be >addressed. Matters are no different in this case -- at least, for those >who are concerned to reduce the threat of terrorist violence rather than >to escalate it. > .... >Bin Laden may or may not be directly implicated in these acts, but it is >likely that the network in which he was a prime figure is -- that is, >the network established by the US and its allies for their own purposes >and supported as long as it served those purposes. It is much easier to >personalize the enemy, identified as the symbol of ultimate evil, than >to seek to understand what lies behind major atrocities. And there are, >naturally, very strong temptations to ignore one's own role -- which in >this case, is not difficult to unearth, and indeed is familiar to >everyone who has any familiarity with the region and its recent history. > Noam Chomsky via Z Magazine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:57:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: eurasianet news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/9/01 5:55:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thisweek@eurasianet.org writes: Dear Friends, We thought it would be useful to circulate the full text of today's EurasiaNet story by Ahmed Rashid via email. Thank You, EurasiaNet US-BRITISH BOMBING RAIDS SEEK TO CRIPPLE, NOT ROUT, TALIBAN FORCES IN KABUL Ahmed Rashid: 10/09/01 http://www.eurasianet.org/ US and British bombing runs on the Taliban have so far not targeted Taliban armor and artillery emplacements around Kabul in order to delay an attack on the capital by the opposition Northern Alliance (NA). The early fall of Kabul to the NA could create even greater chaos, as long as there is no alternative Afghan transitional government in place. Already, Ismail Khan, a legendary commander of NA forces in western Afghanistan, is close to capturing Chagcharan, the capital of Ghor province. This puts Khan's forces in position to take the strategic city of Herat, opening a military supply route for his forces from Iran. In three days of strategic bombing of Taliban targets, the US and Britain have so far taken out Taliban air power, airports, communications and command centers, while special forces are reported to be combing the mountains looking for terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden. [For more stories about the US strikes, visit http://www.eurasianet.org .] However, the US has held off attacking Taliban armor and artillery positions both around Kabul and in northern Afghanistan. The Taliban have about 200 tanks and hundreds of pieces of medium and heavy artillery in both regions. Washington is calculating that once it attacks Taliban armor, killing their crews and support troops, Taliban units will quickly fragment and massive defections will start. The expected disintegration of Taliban fighting units would allow the NA to march on Kabul. The Western alliance is reluctant to see the NA to take control in Kabul at this early stage in the campaign. The NA's premature capture of the capital could create administrative chaos and a vast exodus of refugees from the city. The NA is divided into four main factions that loosely represent the major ethnic groups in northern Afghanistan - Uzbek, Tajik, Hazara and the Persian-speaking Heratis in the west of the country. The danger is that, as each NA faction takes a major city, they will set up separate administrations - replicating the warlordism that prevailed after the collapse of the Afghan communist regime in 1992. A repetition of the 1992 scenario would completely alienate the majority of Pashtuns who live in the south of the country, and from whom the Taliban are drawn. Western diplomats say that the US and Great Britain are convinced that there can be no stability in Afghanistan without a major role for Pashtun moderates. The only legitimizing authority in Afghan politics at present is former King Zahir Shah, who on October 1 set up the 'Supreme Council for National Unity of Afghanistan' from his exile in Rome. The King is a Pashtun although his mother tongue is Persian. The Council, which includes NA representatives, is still far from becoming an organized political entity capable of taking control of Kabul and other cities - even if the NA is willing to cede control to the Council. The Council now has to nominate its 120 members - a process that could take weeks of discussion and haggling in Rome. Only after the composition of the Council is agreed upon, can an interim government be chosen from among its members. In the meantime, NA forces are on the move. Troops under Ismail Khan have captured the airport outside Chagcharan, the capital of Ghor province, and are now moving on the town itself. Ismail Khan claims that the civilian population is now rising against the Taliban. ''The most important fact is that civilians in these provinces are rising against the Taliban, they do not want to be under Taliban rule,'' he told a news agency by satellite telephone three days ago. Khan who returned from exile in Iran to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban earlier this summer, said that ''to win we need more money, men and weapons and we are willing to accept help from whoever has our best interests in mind.'' So far he has received no help from the United States. Major military advances by the NA and the fall of Afghan cities to the NA would also cause concern in Pakistan, which is opposed to the NA taking control of Kabul. In his visit to Islamabad last week British Prime Minister Tony Blair emphasized that any government in Kabul could not be unfriendly to Pakistan. The Pakistani military has been wedded to the Taliban for the past seven years and has alienated every other ethnic group and even the Pashtun elite in Afghanistan. The NA still sees Pakistan as the enemy along with the Taliban. ''If Pakistan is allowed to play a key role in shaping the future of Afghanistan, it will play a spoiler's role,'' says Mohammed Eshaq, the NA envoy to Washington. At the same time, if Pakistan carves out a large role in the formation of Afghanistan's new political order, it will fuel immediate opposition from Russia, Iran and the Central Asian republics, which all support the NA, and have always detested Pakistan's fundamentalist Afghan proxies in Afghanistan. Such tensions could split the fragile military alliance in the region, built up painstakingly by the US and Britain. One way out of this dilemma is for the US and Europe to go back to the UN Security Council and work to pass a resolution that would provide a UN mandate to help form an equitable broad based government in Kabul. Zahir Shah has said that the UN could play a role in Afghanistan, as it did in Cambodia in the 1990s. The UN is already preparing for such an eventuality. UN Secretary General Kofi Annan has appointed the highly experienced former Algerian Foreign Minister Lakhdar Brahimi as overall coordinator for the UN's humanitarian and political strategy. Yet Brahimi cannot operate until the international community, and especially Washington, gives him a mandate. ''The US needs to clearly define its political strategy for Afghanistan in the next few days, otherwise their bombs will only add to the political rubble that is today's Afghanistan,'' says a European diplomat. http://www.eurasianet.org/ Editor's Note: Ahmed Rashid is a journalist and author of the book "Taliban: Militant Islam and Fundamentalism in Central Asia." A truncated version of this story appeared previously in the Los Angeles Times. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 21:10:20 -0600 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Organization: housepress Subject: PhillyTalks #19: ALLEN FISHER & KAREN MAC CORMACK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PhillyTalks 19: ALLEN FISHER / KAREN MAC CORMACK WEDNESDAY OCTOBER 17, 2001 Reading 6:00 pm Eastern Standard Time Discussion 7:00 pm WEBCAST LIVE from the Kelly Writers House, Philadelphia The FISHER / MAC CORMACK exchange for their PhillyTalks event is now available at http://phillytalks.org (go to "library"). Pre-event responses to their exchange by Matt Hart and Marjorie Welish are also available. "Admirable in both Allen Fisher and Karen Mac Cormack's writings is that there is not the manifestation of discourse for its own ironic sake" (Marjorie Welish). "At what point does the relationship between two putatively separate fields of knowledge [poetry and architecture] escape metaphor? When is such a relationship not reductive?" (Matt Hart). Included are new poems by both poets. Post-event response by Rob Holloway to be published -- together with responses gathered before, during and after the event's live manifestation -- as a PT19 Supplement. To participate in the live webcast, subscribe to the webcasts listserve at: http://phillytalks.org/ Subscribers will be given further notice of where to go and what to do at the time of the live webcast. To respond for the Supplement, or for the live event, email us, or telephone during the event (at caller's expense). For further information, please email Aaron Levy: adlevy@dept.english.upenn.edu or Louis Cabri: lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu. Allen Fisher was born in England in 1944 and has been writing poetry since 1962. A performer, painter, publisher and editor (Aloes Books, New London Pride and Spanner), he has produced over one hundred and twenty chapbooks and books of poetry, graphics and art documentation. He is Professor of Poetry & Art and Head of Art at the University of Surrey Roehampton; examples of his Fluxus installation work are in the Tate Gallery collection. He regularly exhibits his paintings and drawings. His last retrospective was in 1993. The next one-person show is projected for 2003. His books include: Bavuska (1969), Place Book One (1974), The Apocalyptic Sonnets (1978), Poetry for Schools (1980), Brixton Fractals (1985), Breadboard (1994). Equipage published Ring Shout and Wild Honey Sojourns in 2000. Spanner published Watusi and Woodpecker in 2001. Karen Mac Cormack's At Issue is forthcoming from Coach House Books (Toronto). Sections from Implexures were printed as a chapbook by housepress (Calgary, 2001), and the chapbook Multiplex from Wild Honey Press (Bray, Ireland, 1998) features her work and that of Ron Silliman's. Mac Cormack is author (with Alan Halsey) of Fit To Print (Coach House Books/West House Books, Toronto/Sheffield, 1998), The Tongue Moves Talk (Chax Press/West House Books, Tucson, Hay-on-Wye, 1997), Marine Snow (ECW Press, Toronto, 1995), Quirks & Quillets (Chax Press, Tucson, 1991), Quill Driver (Nightwood Editions, London, Ontario, 1989) and Straw Cupid (Nightwood Editions, Toronto, 1987). She is featured on a 1996 LINEbreak audio program available at http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/. "PhillyTalks" is made possible thanks to the generous financial support of The Kelly Writers House at the University of Pennsylvania, and to the work of the House's volunteers and staff. Special thanks to Miles Champion, Tom Devaney, Al Filreis, Teresa Leo, John MacDermott and Jeff McCall. - Louis Cabri & Aaron Levy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:18:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Homo Sonorus Comments: To: webartery@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just got my copies of this major work - contains Rothenberg, Higgins, = Chopin, etc., etc. on theory, practice, history and 2 cds of recordings. = Puts sound and performance poetry into historical context and provides = current overview. in English and Russian. tom bell Homo Sonorus: An International Anthology of Sound Poetry. Kaliningrad, = Russia, National Center for Contemporary Art, 2001. 435 p., 2 cds. = Purchase info from Dmitry Bulatov, center@ncca.koenig.su = http://www.ncaa.koenig.su/sonorus PO Box 1582, Kaliningrad 236000 = Russia. =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:18:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: THE TWIN TOWERS: THE OPINION OF THREE PSYCHOANALYSTS Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (apologies for cross posting... joe brennan) Lacanian Press Agency Paris, Monday, September 24 2001, 15:00 ******************************************* ******************************************* THE TWIN TOWERS: THE OPINION OF THREE PSYCHOANALYSTS=20 =C9RIC LAURENT (=C9cole de la Cause Freudienne, Paris)=20 ABEL FAINSTEIN (Asociacion Psicoanalitica Argentina, Buenos Aires)=20 JACQUES-ALAIN MILLER (World Association of Psychoanalysis, Paris)=20 ******************************** THE TOWERS WERE NOT HIT AS SYMBOLS=20 Paris, Sept. 21 (LPA) =ADEric Laurent, psychoanalyst at Saint-Roch St. in Paris, President of the Ecole de la Cause Freudienne (AMP), sent to the Agency the following comment: "Before crumbling down and therefore, before remaining in existence forever as one of the names of horror, it was a commonplace to say that the Towers were < symbols >. The Twin Towers, named so after the two Rockefeller brothers, David and Nelson, who led the project to completion, had come to symbolise the city. But which city? According to critics, all significations found there a meeting point : power, wealth, pride, war, but also peace, banality, incoherence. A symbol does not represent one single signification, it rather embodies, as Levi-Strauss says of manna, something inherent in the power of signification itself.=20 Architectural functionalism profoundly dislikes symbolism. It ignores signification altogether and adheres to function. A house is a "dwelling machine" (an expression minted by Le Corbusier). This semantic excision entails paradoxical results: it does not function. At the Mies Van Der Rohe exhibition I visited this past summer at the New York MOMA, it is possible to follow the meanders of the river-process which opposed the sponsor of a paradigmatic estate from the architect: the house was superlative yet inhabitable. Likewise, the Twin Towers, considered as < office machines for people in the finances > remained vacant for a long time.=20 It was not until the expansion of the so-called New Economy that they came on a par with their function. They became thereby the symbol of the way of life of the "upright city". They were therefore both function and symbol. But before anything else they existed as object. The object dealt with here is the surplus jouissance (or the "plus-de -jouir") extracted by Wall Street from market globalization.=20 If the terrorists had targeted the symbol or the function, it would have sufficed to strike at night when the Towers were empty. Their will, on the contrary, was to reach for the object of jouissance and to kill people, to achieve mass assassination, as widely as possible. Suicidal-killers wish for death. They enjoy the other's dismay. Their transfiguration is widely echoed by the media. Their ambition is to produce what would be the pure sign of hate, that one which causes absolute hypnosis, nullifies all signification, and bears witness to a will as massive as that of the God of Angelus Silesius. In short, the cursed offspring is now born : the new swastika of the XXI Century.=20 THE CRUMBLING DOWN OF SYMBOLIC REFERENCES Paris, Sept. 22 (LPA) =AD J.A. Miller sent us his abridged translation of th= e article published today in Clarin newspaper in Buenos Aires, reproducing the words of Abel Fainstein, President of APA (Argentine Psychoanalytic Association, IPA).=20 He reminds us of the bombing of the AMIA (Argentine Jewish Alliance) building in Buenos Aires in July 1994, in which 85 persons died, and the participation of APA psychoanalysts in treatments provided at the City Hospital (UBA) as well as in preventive work at schools in the attacked area. APA also created a clinical research group on < Effects of social reality on the psyche >, which is still at work.=20 The barbaric nature of the deed of September 11, 2001, explains Mr Fainstein, exceeds any psychological possibility of comprehension. "The anguish in the face of what had happened, the stupor regarding what might happen (a war of unforeseen duration and without a precise aim) are such that cause traumatism. The attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon is of high symbolic value, because these buildings are symbols of the power of the strongest country on the planet, for many the reference of liberty and progress in the West. The crisis of symbolic reference points thus leaves us defenceless against the requirements of everyday life. Everything that happens in reality, and that which comes to us, we are used to understanding (it) as a function of those points of reference. Their destruction leaves us perplexed : we no longer know where we are placed."=20 The practitioner explains how psychoanalysis addresses the problem on the basis of the theory of trauma : < Initially you must not try to ascribe too much meaning to what has happened, but rather to reconstruct the situation as objectively as possible on the basis of the perceptual data. Later on, according to the nature of each case, you will indicate or discard a psychological approach. Depression might ensue."=20 Abel Fainstein deals with the psychological effects of the attack on the Argentine population, most of whom live now in extremely difficult economic conditions, before giving a sign of optimism in which he trusts the social link as capable of "making a barrier to the feeling of distress and to threats of violence."=20 THE COLLECTIVE DELUSION OF THOSE RAVING MAD WITH DEATH Paris, Sept. 23 (LPA) =AD J.A. Miller declared: "I received the Clarin artic= le by e-mail from my friend Mario Goldenberg, psychoanalyst in Buenos Aires, joint Director of the EOL (AMP). It is not surprising that the most widely distributed Argentinian newspaper was willing to publish a psychoanalyst's comments on the events of September 11, given the penetration of Freudism in all layers of the population. It is usual that the newspaper should address itself to the President of the most important, the most ancient and numerous, Argentinian Association of Psychoanalysis, which is present and active in the intellectual and social life of the country. In this regard, the APA is an example for psychoanalysts worldwide.=20 Who do you agree with, Fainstein or Laurent ?=20 Both! Their approaches are complementary. I will first emphasise that both analysts, independently of each other, wished to comment on the event. One of them does it on the LPA bulletin distributed by e-mail to the 3000 subscribers of the AMP-UQBAR list (in five languages: French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, English) and in a paper edition to 500 personalities of the French culture, the press, and psychoanalysis. The other one does so in a national daily newspaper of over a million copies. We still have to go a long way before we reach the Argentinian level.=20 Abel Fainstein and Eric Laurent know and appreciate each other, Laurent recently lectured at the APA, Fainstein was interviewed by El Caldero, the monthly journal of the EOL, the Argentine School of the Freudian Field. Abel Fainstein is not Lacanian, but he admits to lacanian influence; in my opinion, he would agree that his idea of symbolic reference points as essential to the comprehension of "what happens" reveals Lacanian influence. Yet they both say opposite things: Laurent thinks that it is not a matter of symbols, Fainstein emphasises the symbolic.=20 No, it is more subtle than that. Laurent certainly centers on the "object" aspect, yet admits that the Towers are also symbols. Fainstein centers on the symbol, yet he deals also with the effects of the attack on the psyche of living beings. In fact, each one of them illustrates the two angles of present psychoanalytic thought: the aspect of the signifier, of the symbolic frame, and the aspect of the object, of jouissance. These two moments are not to be opposed but rather to be dialectically confronted.=20 What is your opinion ?=20 I don't know yet! I am slower. I am also handicapped by the fact that I don't watch TV, and lately I don't have the time to read the press. I know only what I am told, particularly by my patients. There I notice a positive therapeutic reaction, obviously short-lived: "What are my little miseries compared to =A9 ,etc." This effect was already noticed by Freud: at times of war or catastrophe, neurotics improve. Conversely, these same events are likely to cause delusions, even to trigger psychoses, but only in subjects affected by this clinical structure: "wanting to be crazy is not enough", used to say Lacan. As to perverts, the event is likely to satisfy sadism of the strictest observance. There is, if I may say so, blood, voluptuousness, and death (a title of Maurice Barres that Montherlant laughed at). But at the level of the drive, we are all sadists. The great statements about horror usually volunteered at times of catastrophe are a rite made to hide the unconscious, illicit, morally inadmissible, satisfaction that the event elicits in the subject. Furthermore, we are all survivors, so we are all happy.=20 You will be blamed for that sentence!=20 What is the need for psychoanalysts, as Heidegger and Jean-Francois Revel almost say, at these times of distress, if they say what everybody says so well? The unconscious, the fact that there is the unconscious, means that everybody lies. Psychoanalysts should do that a bit less. "We are happy", unconsciously, no doubt, means also, as Abel Fainstein pointed, that even thousands of kilometres away, we are all victims of the New York and Washington attacks. The media, by spreading them, spread terror. They make it fleetingly eternal in a suspended time, that of the phantasm. This what Lacan called "between-two-deaths": physical death has taken place, but before memory fades away and the event becomes reabsorbed in the immutable order of nature where nothing ever happened, in that interval we extract from the event which we consciously condemn, its unconscious surplus jouissance.=20 September 11 made the Universal definitely present, effective, wirklich. The whole world (almost, because TV does not reach everywhere, the depths of Africa or my home, for example) spoke of the same thing at the same time. There it is, the Global Show Society, brilliantly anticipated in the sixties by Guy Debord following the thought of his teacher Henri Lefebvre, an original kind of marxist. This is the planetary Puppet Theatre, echoed by the compelling wailing of the tragic chorus : Horror ! Desolation ! Dismay ! Television, in particular, installs hypnosis in homes, as Eric Laurent notes.=20 After having summoned a crusade of good against evil which indicated an identification with the aggressor, the President of the grand nation mourning made a fortunate appearance at a mosque. Bravo! In the U.S. there is a powerful movement of enlightened opinion opposing obscure, war mongering sectors. Their obscene sadism often finds open expression : they discuss the vitrifaction of Afghanistan. This will remind members of my generation of General Curtis Le May vowing "to bomb Vietnam back to the Stone Age". We know the end of the story. We also know, from his Memories, the subjective drama of Robert Mc Namara, maddened by the body-count.=20 The ways of reason must be explored beyond hate, horror and dismay. The sons of Freud will not be intimidated by the good consciences of all observations proclaiming their abjectness. The nervous system of the masses, as Nietzsche put it, is today disintegrated by what he called "the collective delusion of those raving mad with death", whose atrocious call "Evviva la morte" he stigmatised, and in whom he saw the result of "training in penitence and redemption" (Genealogy of Morals, III, 21, p. 331 of the NRF edition, 1971). Public welfare, I weigh my words, requires today the revolt of intellectuals. I call "intellectuals" those who make an effort "to think by themselves" (Kant), and will not allow themselves to be manipulated by opposing cliques of "ascetic priests" working hard to assemble the masses and lead them to carnage in order to satisfy by their sacrifice the jouissance of some obscure Moloch. Remember the Iran-Irak war. Basic "anti-death" Committees are needed.=20 And you, what will you do ?=20 At the beginning, little, because I am starting from nil. I am thinking of a monthly journal, which would be one of the organs of this necessary revolt I am talking about, the clarifier of the New Enlightenment. I shall proceed further on if this initiative should find an echo in the enlightened opinion to which I address myself in priority. I will mobilise my friends, and also those who are not. I count on the aid of the editorial house editing Lacan since 1966, Editions du Seuil. Lacan is not being edited so faithfully for such a long time without a feeling of emergency. American intellectuals are manifesting. We read in Le Monde Susan Sontag, the great Barthes scholar beyond the Atlantic. That is good. Long live America!=20 Translated by Liliana Mauas-Singer=20 Edited by Susana Tillet=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:58:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: If you're in San Francisco this week In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll be sure to wear some flowers in my hair :-) Best, G Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Kevin Killian Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 11:12 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: If you're in San Francisco this week Please come and see me on Wednesday Oct 10 at 7 pm. at City Lights Bookstore, it will be the book party for my new book ARGENTO SERIES. Come on down, it's in North Beach the legendary Bohemian quarter! And if you couldn't get into our play WHITE RABBIT last Friday, we will be doing it again with a slightly different cast this Friday Oct 12 at 8 pm at New Langton Arts (1246 Folsom Street). Call for reservations first at (415) 626-5416. The play is AWESOME and went down a storm and all the actors dressed as animals are adorable!!! Thanks, everyone. -- Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 00:38:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: from the front MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = from the front difficult to write hanging specifically from several hairs of the bin Laden beard from this vantage point it is clear that whatever i write today will no longer be true tomorrow it is from here nonetheless that i can only ask, should we not, so specifically, drop parcels of food so as not to make a mockery of relief workers, and instead leave people in a worse situation, if that in fact is possible and from the other nostril i would like to ask if we should desist the air land and sea campaign and admit defeat in honor of our several thousand already dead, but excuse me while the bin Laden beard does its duty in the frequent sipping of coffee, it is difficult to stay awake in this place when there is so much noise outside and i can only ask, should we not, so specifically, keep up our blockade of Iraq, which hardly makes a piece of literature, but does a reasonable job of killing the innocent children, and should we not, so specifically, keep up our full support of Israel no matter what horrors are committed on both sides, instead of positioning ourselves equally towards both Arab and Jew i am getting sick swinging back and forth, there must be some praying going on, should we not recognize Cuba and drop our embargo, it is there just off the shore, waiting for trade and Bueno Vista audience this constant praying gets me sick, everyone throws Korans, Bibles, flags, and human beings into the mix, when i sleep by the left part or the right part, it never ever stops, surely whatever god there might be is sufficiently vicious to let us fight it out in its dubious honor i must be moving now, one can only hope this beard holds still once and for all, where have all the animals gone, where have all the plants he has named his beard The Furious Slayer there is anthrax hereabouts, i will be gone in the white ghost of this death, let us leave life to another, i'm getting dizzy, don't like hanging by a hair === ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 23:56:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: NOW MORE THAN EVER Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com, dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/o_so_vo/unwar.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 03:53:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Fwd: m&r.....Green Vermont...Green Vermont... nudel-soho@mindspring.com wrote: > Speaking of mix-ups....one summer a decade ago....we drove to Green Vermont...for a month's vacation....i took some books to mail there.... some padded mailers and put some hundreds of $$$'s in a mailer... Su' nuf as the sun shines in Green Vt...i mailed out the books one to Oregon...one to the Mid-West....one to Mass.......with the $$$$... Lucky 'nuf the $$$$ landed in Mass...L I sz we've got to drive a few hundred miles....to a nice women in a white house on a side road who dealt in childrens books... A green summer watching Americans play baseball at twi-light...in Green Vt...DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:55:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: on what to call them In-Reply-To: <7a.1c03531e.28f4c544@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed George-- The US and its media is not supposed to use Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The two bomb droppings would incriminate the US. Thus, we continue to hear of Pearl Harbor. --Ak At 05:25 PM 10/9/2001, you wrote: >For those who are looking for a new vocabulary to describe the events of >September 11, might I suggest the words "Hiroshima" and "Nagasaki"? > >Also, the words of Celan come to mind again: > >Ein Droehnen: es ist >die Wahrheit selbst >unter die Menschen >getreten, >mitten ins >Metaphergestoeber. > > >George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:15:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Zizek: Reply to Marco Mauas (from lacan.com) Comments: To: Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (What follows is a response by Slavoj Zizek to a post from Marco Mauas. I'll try and find Mauas' original post, but I'm posting this because Zizek attempts to put the WTC bombing attack into a historical perspective, in opposition to those who see every such attempt as an attempt to justify the event.... joe brennan) Reply to Marco Mauas by Slavoj Zizek The worst thing to do apropos of the events of September 11 is to elevate them to a point of Absolute Evil, a vacuum which cannot be explained and/or dialecticized. To posit them in a series with Shoah is a blasphemy: the Shoah was committed in a methodical way by a vast network of state apparatchiks and their executors who, in contrast to the bombers of the WTC towers, lacked the suicidal acceptance of their own death - as Hannah Arendt made it clear, they were anonymous bureaucrats doing their job, and an enormous gap separated what they did from their individual self-experience. This "banality of Evil" is missing in the case of the terrorist attacks: they fully assumed the horror of their acts, this horror is part of the fatal attraction which draws them towards commiting them. Or, to put it in a slightly different way: the Nazis did their job of "solving the Jewish question" as an obscene secret hidden from the public gaze, while the terrorists heroically and display the spectacle of their act. The second difference is that the Shoah was a part of EUROPEAN history, it was an event which does NOT concern directly the relationship between Muslims and Jews: remember Sarajevo which had by far the largest Jewish community in ex-Yugoslavia, and, on the top of it, was the most cosmopolitan Yugoslav city, the thriving center of cinema and rock music - why? Precisely because it was the Muslim dominated city, where the Jewish and Christian presence was tolerated, in contrast to the Christian-dominated large cities from which Jews and Muslims were purged long ago. Why should the New York catastrophe be in any way privileged over, say, the mass slaughter of Hutus by Tutsis in Ruanda in 1999? Or the mass bombing and gas-poisoning of Kurds in the north of Iraq in the early 1990s? Or the Indonesian forces' mass killings in East Timor? Or... the list of the countries where the mass suffering was and is incomparably greater than the one in New York, but which do not have the luck to stand in the focus so as to be elevated by the media into the sublime victim of Absolute Evil, is long, and therein resides the point: if one insists on the use of this term, these are all "Absolute Evils." So should we extend the prohibition to explain and claim that none of these evils could and should be "dialecticized"? And is one not obliged to go even a step further: what about "individual" horrible crimes, from those of the sadist mass murderer Jeffrey Dahmer to those of Andrea Yates who in a cold-blooded way drowned her five children? Is there not something real/impossible/inexplicable about EVERY of these acts? Is it not that, as Schelling put it more than 200 years ago, in each of them we confront the ultimate abyss of the free will, the imponderable fact of "I did it because I did it!" which resists any explanation with psychological, social, ideological, etc. causes. So have the events of September 11 something to do with the obscure God who demands human sacrifices? Yes, the spectacular explosion of the WTC towers was not simply a symbolic act (in the sense of an act whose aim is to "deliver a message"): it was primarily an explosion of lethal jouissance, a perverse act of making oneself an instrument of the big Other's jouissance. Yes, the culture of the attackers is a morbid culture of death, the attitude which finds the climactic fulfillment of one's own life in the violent death. Yes, the ultimate aim of the attacks was not some hidden or obvious ideological agenda, but - precisely in the Hegelian sense of the term - to (re)introduce the dimension of absolute negativity into our daily lives: to shatter the insulated daily course of the lives of us, true Nietzschean Last Men. Sacrilegious as it may appear, the WTC attacks do share something with Antigone's act: they both undermine the "servicing of the goods," the reign of the pleasure-reality principle. However, the "dialectical" thing to do here is not to include these acts into some larger narrative of the Progress of Reason or Humanity which somehow - if not redeems them, at least - makes them a part of an all-encompassing larger consistent narrative, "sublated" them in a "higher" stage of development (the naive notion of Hegelianism), but to make us question our own innocence, to render thematic our own (fantasmatic libidinal) investment and engagement in them. So, rather than remain stuck in the debilitating awe in front of the Absolute Evil, the awe which prohibits us to THINK what is going on, one should recall that there are two fundamental ways to react to such traumatic events which cause unbearable anxiety: the way of superego and the way of the act. The way of the superego is precisely that of the sacrifice to the obscure gods of which Lacan speaks: the reassertion of the barbaric violence of the savage obscene law in order to fill in the gap of the failing symbolic law. And the act? One of the heroes of the Shoah is for me a famous Jewish balerina who, as a gesture of special humiliation, was asked by the camp officers to perform a dance for them. Instead of refusing it, she did it, and while she hold their attention, she quickly grabbed the machine gun from one of the distracted guards and, before being shot down herself, succeeded in killing more than a dozen officers... was her act not comparable to that of the passengers on the flight which crashed down in Pennsylvania who, knowing that they will die, forced their way into the cockpit and crashed the plane, saving hundreds of others' lives? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:58:46 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Goeffrey. Neighbour's suicide? Why did he she / commit suicide? Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Gatza" To: Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 11:08 AM Subject: Re: ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR > This is especially hitting today considering the unusual weather in > Buffalo. Today as Peter Jennings reports the sun shone as ice hailed down. > It is an uneasy feeling to watch the TV while dark clouds rolled in. It all > seems so distant. Yesterday I cleaned up my neighbor's suicide, as the day > before I visited my brother in the hospital after another manic attack. On > receiving news of the war, I was at my computer, cat on lap drinking coffee > waiting for Xena to air. Instead more war and Osama praises god for our > fear. Tomahawk missiles and ice - what a world, what a day. > > Geoffrey > > > Geoffrey Gatza > editor BlazeVOX2k1 > http://vorplesword.com/ > __o > _`\<,_ > (*)/ (*) > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Charles Bernstein > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 4:23 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR > > ON RECEIVING NEWS OF THE WAR > > Snow is a strange white word. > No ice or frost > Has asked of bud or bird > For Winter's cost. > > Yet ice and frost and snow > From earth to sky > This Summer land doth know. > No man knows why. > > In all men's hearts it is. > Some spirit old > Hath turned with malign kiss > Our lives to mould. > > Red fangs have torn His face. > God's blood is shed. > He mourns from His lone place > His children dead. > > O! ancient crimson curse! > Corrode, consume. > Give back this universe > Its pristine bloom. > > Cape Town. 1914 > > > Isaaac Rosenberg (1890-1918) > > > [from The Collected Poems of Isaac Rosenberg: Edited by Gordon Bottomley & > Denys Harding (1977), Chatto & Windus Ltd.] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:41:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: "Homeland Security" Comments: To: working-class-list@listserv.liunet.edu, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a dramatic departure from the anti-terrorism bill adopted by the House Judiciary Committee, Senate leaders have introduced the "Uniting and Strengthening America (USA) Act" (S.1510), a bill that would significantly undermine many of the freedoms that Americans hold dear. It is likely that this legislation will be rushed onto the Senate floor this week without any committee review. Among the bill's most troubling provisions are measures that would give the government the authority to spy on its own people, enable the Attorney General unlimited authority to incarcerate non-citizens, and allow the government to expand its use of secret searches. Take Action! Don't allow Congress to abandon our cherished constitutional safeguards during this time of national crisis. You can read more about this legislation and send a FREE FAX to your Senators from our action alert at: http://www.aclu.org/action/usa107.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:47:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "James W. Cook" Subject: Re: Some links worth looking at Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ron, I check'd out the link you gave to the andrewsullivan site & am wondering if you intended-- "The Agony of the Left" at www.andrewsullivan.com/text/main_article.html?2--as the article describing "How the right exploits left fundamentalism." The address you gave--http://www.andrewsullivan.com/text/main_articletext1.html--focuses more on the religious aspect of the conflict (though the axis of conflict posited by andrewsullivan is liberal/fundamentalist instead of Christian/Muslim.) Thank you for the links. I raise a glass to everyone out there who spends hours pouring over text-upon-text (the news slush pile) seeking words worthy of mass-attention. I have benefited immeasurably from you labors. slainte, j.c. >From: Ron Silliman >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Some links worth looking at >Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:20:26 -0400 > >I find these to be the most thought provoking links right now. That doesn't >mean that I find them encouraging or agree with all of them. > >Ron > >Salman Rushdie's comments >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55876-2001Oct1.html > >The reaction of Hardt & Negri >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43930-2001Sep29.html > >Best analysis of left fundamentalism by co-editor of Dissent >http://www.theamericanprospect.com/print/V12/18/walzer-m.html > >How the right exploits left fundamentalism >http://www.andrewsullivan.com/text/main_articletext1.html > >Al Qaeda in Europe & Chechnya >http://www.public-i.org/story_01_100401.htm > >Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan >http://www.rawa.org/ > >Rand Corporation's Netwar thesis >http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR789/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:43:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: hovercraft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed In an odd case of synchronicity, the very same day GW announces NATO spy planes will be flying the friendly skies of the "homeland", K. Silem Mohammad's chapbook, _hovercraft_, has sold out! hovercraft was issued as Kenning #8 and went through three editions. And although it's too late to collect them all, I would recommend you small press poetry moguls out there pick it up for the future ... or, I write to the list only because hovercraft is listed as available on the Kenning website (www.durationpress.com/kenning) and on various flyers and catalogs still in circulation. As of today, it is not available through mailorder. Blue Books in SF, Bridge Street in DC, and Rust Belt in Buffalo may have copies remaining. Best to all - be safe - Patrick F Durgin KENNING | a newsletter of contemporary poetry poetics & nonfiction writing | _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:38:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r..'you will be happy soon' to censor another one... Usually realiable Arabic sources have infromed us that the nefarious Drn is to be made Minister of Culture in the permanent Fascist Crusader-Jew Govt of the U.S. of A. A fatwa has been declared on him and his self-serving, fatuous drivel and inuendo. There are rumours that DRn doubles as card-board- pop-up figures are appearing everywhere, but our sources inform that us they can tell the real nnnnnn when they seize 'em....???Drn???? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 01:58:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: recent work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (Sent to Webartery, on the most recent work - Alan) I've not been participating recently so much, for which apologies - I'm worn out and at the edge of a literal breakdown here in Miami, trying to hold on. And in my work I've been doing things in Mathematica, a program for Mac/PC/Unix/Linux - I have it on 3 PCs and a Mac G3 now - because it creates an ambience I'm interested in - the ability to work closely with structure in relation to transcendent or content - the content on one level is nothing more than a residue, and on the other, it's the membrane which evidences submerged operations. You can import various graphic formats into Mathematica, then process them in a number of ways - matrices for example (which are, in a simple way, present in Photoshop as well), and functions - the last fascinates me. So a.jpg becomes f(a.jpg), and as a function, it can be modified - its parameters can be modified - in a number of way; the result on one hand is often a transformation that I haven't seen before, but on the other, is a representation of an intricate relationship between mathesis and what perceptually passes for the real. Take hole.jpg, make hole = f(hole.jpg) and do a transformation on normal- ized values and you might have (1 - hole) as the negative, (hole^2) as high contract, (hole^.5) as flattening, etc.; but you can go farther with the x, y, etc. coordinates - as if a calculated blast has transformed one world into another - with information often lost, sometimes gained (over- lay something with tangents and you've got additional peaks everywhere). Beyond that, 3d mappings are possible, so that hole.jpg becomes a remapped 3d object or anti-object; the world is a charred world, a world turned inside-out. In addition, you an export audio from Mathematica, and if you work with tangent values again, as well as > 40,000 hz, you can use beat frequencies, harmonics, subharmonics, all related to the program, your hearing, and the machine, interstitial objects which often need no further processing; everything is equivalent. Now I would want to take a slice of a 3d anti-object, then a sheaf of slices, and construct audio from their sequencing - or one might begin with an entire sequencing, producing audio as well as an implicit three-dimensional object traversed by one or another parameter. All of this is a safe and perfect world; there are no errors, or errors may be easily corrected; if something proves a blind alley, I can turn elsewhere, create a different direction, withdraw from unknown functions and objects, back into familiar territory. An enormous amount of memory seems necessary for all of this, so rendering takes longer than even Blender, but there is a comforting specificity in the results, a knowledge that noise, randomness, death itself, can be beautiful and self-contained. There is a relationship between all of this and my own demise or potential breakdown, which I relate to the crystalline wonder of a curve or surface - the sequencing of the Visible Human Project comes immediately to mind. So I am making disks of images and sequences and sounds on mini-disk and releasing them, thinking them through; some of them may find their way into online directories. Meanwhile I am writing through these, as well as writing through other surface-to-air, air-to-surface phenomena, trying to make sense of a world, that, for me, is not utterly changed, but utterly the same, with a semiotic war above all, in both senses of "above," going on at the moment. I recognize my own broken existence, how impossible. Then I can turn in the middle of the night back again through the sexual video and images, into perfect mathesis, transform one sexuality into many, one pornography into many, avoiding the pornography of violence, taking a different path. I'm platonist to the extent that I believe, long after we're gone, the machinery of mathematics will continue its intimate relationship with the mechanism of physical or material reality; working in the realm of number offers a glimpse touching on the asymptotic horizon of subjectivity and the final bursting-point of perspective. And I wonder - what is the phenomenology of (1 - hole), when there is no content for the filling or the asking, when proper names and constants have disappeared, when the "-" is a lever or a surface, rather than subtraction or dash or identity assignment? What is keeping 1 and hole apart - what is the normalization that involves the entirety of the world, dis/played or di/splayed against the corrosion of blank space, virtual particles, decathection degree zero? The equations converge and veer; there always seems to be chaos as the computational limits of the machine are approached, and one or another equation takes forever to calculate, until memory, real and virtual, is exhausted. Then the program stops, and the kernel of Mathematica (which is constructed like an operating system) shuts down; nothing waits for anything in this condition - Alan, hanging on in Florida Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 06:02:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...haiku a month later smoke at nite islamic jihad.....DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:58:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Plans were in the work to bomb Afghanistan before S11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Poetics, A friend told me that Blair and Bush had been contemplating bombing Aghanistan before S11, and that indications of such plans were available in many different newspapers. The ostensible reason for bombing was that a terrorist was stopped at both LAX and Heathrow this summer. Blair and Bush then agreed to do something by October. I don't imagine that what was originally planned was extensive as this, since gaining the cooperation of the states now involved would have been impossible with S11, while any moves against Aghanistan would have added a layer of complexity to Middle East peace talks. I still regard this piece of news as on the order of rumor, though. A search through Lexis-Nexis did not reveal anything about troop movements or even the capture of these would-be terrorists. So I am asking the list whether they have heard such rumors, and, if so, can articles be identified that verify their basis in reality. I have not, as of yet, seen any pieces from progressives about plans for an attack being in the works before S11, which would be really odd if it was so obvious. Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:14:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david antin Subject: some discussion of the present situation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" 1. From Yvonne Rainer to David Antin, a posted message: Robert Bowman flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam. He is presently (1998) bishop of the United Catholic Church in Melbourne Beach, FL. Originally printed in The National Catholic Reporter, Oct. 2, 1998. > The "Security" Charade > by Robert Bowman > > If deceptions about terrorism go unchallenged, then the >threat will continue until it destroys us. The truth is that none of our >thousands of nuclear weapons can protect us from these threats. No Star >Wars >system no matter how technically advanced, no matter how many trillions of >dollars are poured into it, can protect us from a nuclear weapon delivered >in >a sailboat or a Cessna >or a suitcase or a Ryder rental truck. Not one weapon in our vast arsenal, >not a penny of the $270 billion a year we spend on so-called defense can >defend against a >terrorist bomb. That is a military fact. > As a retired lieutenant colonel and a frequent lecturer on >national security issues, I have often quoted Psalm 33: "A king is not saved >by his mighty army. A warrior is not saved by his great strength." The >obvious reaction is, "Then what can we do?" Is there nothing we can do to >provide security for our people?" > There is. But to understand it requires that we know the >truth >about the >threat. President Clinton did not tell the American people the truth about >why we are the targets of terrorism when he explained why we bombed >Afghanistan and Sudan. He said that we are a target because we stand for >democracy, freedom, and human rights in the world. > Nonsense! We are the target of terrorists because, in much of >the world, our government stands for dictatorship, bondage, and human >exploitation. We are >the target of terrorists because we are hated. And we are hated because our > government has done hateful things. > In how many countries have agents of our government deposed >popularly elected leaders and replaced them with puppet military >dictators who were willing to sell out their own people to American >multinational corporations? We did it in Iran when the US Marines and the >CIA deposed Mossadegh because he wanted to nationalize the oil industry. We >replaced him with the Shah, and armed, trained, and paid his hated Savak >National Guard, which enslaved and brutalized the people of Iran, all to >protect the financial interests of our oil companies. Is it any wonder that >there are people in Iran who hate us? > We did it in Chile. We did it in Vietnam. More recently, we >tried to do it in Iraq. And, of course, how many times have we done it in >Nicaragua and all the other banana republics of Latin America? Time after >time we have ousted popular leaders who wanted the riches of the land to be >shared by the people who worked it. We replaced them with murderous tyrants >who would sell out their own people so the wealth of the land could be taken >out by the likes of Domino Sugar, Folgers, and Chiquita Banana. > > In country after country, our government has thwarted >democracy, stifled >freedom, and trampled human rights. That's why it is hated around the >world. And that's why we're the target of terrorists. > > People in Canada enjoy democracy, freedom, and human >rights. So do the people of Norway and Sweden. Have you heard of Canadian >embassies being bombed? Or Norwegian, or Swedish? > > We are not hated because we practice democracy, value freedom, >or uphold human rights. We are hated because our government denies these >things to >people in Third World countries whose resources are coveted by our >multinational corporations. That hatred we have sown has come back to haunt >us in the form of terrorism and in the future, nuclear terrorism. > > Once the truth about why the threat exists is understood, the >solution >becomes obvious. We must change our ways. Getting rid of our nuclear >weapons unilaterally if necessary will enhance our security. Drastically >altering our foreign policy will ensure it. Instead of sending our sons and >daughters around the world >to kill Arabs so we can have the oil under their sand, we should send them >to rebuild their infrastructure, supply clean water, and feed starving >children. Instead of continuing to kill hundreds of Iraqui children every >day with our sanctions, we should help Iraquis rebuild their electric power >plants, their water treatment facilities, their hospitals, and all the >things >we have destroyed and prevented them from rebuilding. Instead of training >terrorists and death squads, we should close the School of the Americas [Ft. >Benning, GA.]. Instead of supporting insurrection, destabilization, >assassination, and terror around the world, we should abolish the CIA and >give money to relief agencies. > In short, we should do good instead of evil. Who would try to >stop us? Who would hate us? Who would want to bomb us? That is the truth >the American >people need to hear. 2. From DA to Yvonne Rainer I'm not at all sure that this is the message we need to hear. Robert Bowman flew 101 missions in a disgusting and immoral and stupid war. What kind of authority does that make him now that he's a bishop and happens to have had a change of heart? It's really surprising how many intelligent and well meaning people repeat the same mix of historical truths and hyperbolic prophecies,from which they derive the same well meaning, banal and insufficient conclusions. There is no reason to suppose that a change in American foreign policy will deter people who already have a developed career in terrorism from continuing their career. What will Osama Bin Laden do, become an independent filmmaker? There is no reason to suppose that anything we can do favoring "the people of Iraq" or of Palestine will reduce the aggressive ambitions of Saddam Hussein. Perhaps after thirty or forty years of a balanced Near Eastern and Far Eastern policy the children of the people trained in the religious schools of radical Islam will begin to imagine that they have enemies closer to home. Do you believe this? Meanwhile, during those thirty or forty years how many terrorist attacks do you imagine we will have to endure with Christ-like patience or Buddha-like indifference. Bowman has come late to his knowledge of American imperial history. It's a history we share with England, France, Belgium and Germany. The reason they're not directly under attack is that we happen aat presesnt to be he most powerful. The reason Canada isn't a target of terrorism is not the morality of its foreign policy, but it's relative lack of power. Now that Bowman has learned his belated history lesson, he offers a cautionary tale and an absurd prophecy. Sure we can't prevent every act of terror, but what makes him sure we can't prevent a great many? We can make it more difficult to carry them out. We can increase intelligence and disrupt the networks of active conspirators whenever we find them. And we can increase security to some significant degree, considering how slovenly it's been up to now, making it more difficult to carry out attacks. There may very well be attacks, but fewer if we take action against the attackers. The question is not whether to take such action, but the precise nature of action we have to take. And of course it would be good -- for many reasons -- to rethink American foreign policy in terms of our own real advantage and the ethical condition of our actions. Not because it will change the opinion of our enemies and turn them into friends, but because it will allow us a well-deserved self respect. I'm almost as tired of these people as I am of George W. Best David 3. From Yvonne Rainer to David Antin First of all, everyone has the authority, you, me, why not Robert Bowman? Does a "change of heart" disqualify him from speaking with authority? I agree that security and "intelligence" measures can prevent some acts of terrorism, but you have said nothing of the provocations of "surgical" strikes against Afghanistan. If the U.S. kills ben Laden, he will become a martyr and role model more than ever for generations to come. Changes in our foreign policies will of course not make ben Laden and his ilk become independent filmmakers, but looking further than greedy multinationals' self-interested economic depredations has got to have consequences in the long run different from our current catastrophic mess. And Bowman's facts are right on; we can't repudiate them: The U.S. has undermined and destroyed democracy in too many places. This is not diminished by the fact that European nations are equally culpable. Yvonne 4.Dear Yvonne -- The kind of authority everybody has is no authority, and that's quite good enough for an expression of opinion,which Bowman is certainly entitled to. But his record in Vietnam is not inspiring with respect to his judgment. Given his background, it appears that he was as a young man part of the right wing American Catholic "anti-Communist" world, that through its leading representative in the US -- Cardinal Spellman -- played a large part in placing a Catholic premier -- Diem -- in the position of powerless power in Vietnam. He had no support in the Buddhist community and was entirely dependent on the old French Catholic connections in Vietnam, the American liberal cold war activists like Ladejinsky, and propagandists like Tom Dooley. As Bowman was apparently a sucker for this world of interventionist propaganda in the affairs of Vietnam, one would want to regard his enthusiasms with some skepticism. What he is right about is a great deal of history that is very well known. Its relevance in the long run may be significant, but not in the absurd way he proposes. No government will do anything that isn't in some way in its own interest, or what its officials can regard as its interest. Governments don't do "good". They never have and never will. The attempt to straighten out American diplomacy is complex and difficult and necessary. But any attempt to straighten it out will benefit from a more honest assessment than Bowman's. The American sanctions have not killed all those children in Iraq. The sanctions were however a serious misjudgment that allowed a great deal of suffering without accomplishing their end. They were aimed to restrict Saddam Hussein's military capabilities by economic constriction. But they underestimated Saddam's cynicism, his ruthlessness and his intelligence -- his willingness to steal all the resources generated by the oil he was allowed to sell, which were to be used for the needs of the Iraqi population, for his personal and military uses. He was willing to allow thousands of people to suffer because he was aware that he could starve everyone in Iraq and that Arab propagandists would blame all these collateral casualties on the US and regard him as a long suffering hero. So, the U.S, once it realized the failure of its policy, should have withdrawn the sanctions and looked for other ways to destabilize the dangerous and cruel and lethal Hussein. So more honestly stated, Saddam Hussein killed all those people and dragged America in as a stupid accomplice and fall guy. You will not hear that version from Bowman. You won't hear it from the Arab world, or from kneejerk Americans leftists. As for what America did in Iran in relation to Mossadegh and installation of the Shah, it was a nasty piece of oil politics played with the approval and diplomatic connivance of the other Western powers. As to what the mullahs did in Iran after they overthrew the Shah, it was a nasty piece of Arab fundamentalist extremism, that might or might not have occurred if Mossadegh had taken power. If there is a reasoned Arab or Islamic liberalism or conservatism,after years of suppression, first by the Shah and then by the mullahs, it isn't in a very good position to speak right now. At least not in the Islamic countries. If we try to improve our relations with the more secular contingents in Iran too openly, the mullahs will step in to cause trouble as they have over the last five or six years in which anti-extremism has gradually reappeared. There is probably no very good policy to undertake in regard to Pakistan, except to move cautiously. They have a military dictator with an atomic bomb. He is currently our ally and is supported pretty much by the middle class and opposed by an intense if not very large minority of Islamic fundamentalist Pakistanis and Afghan immigrants, and he is conducting an ongoing guerrilla war in Kashmir. Go figure your policy there. In Afghanistan,there is a disastrous and repressive fundamentalist government, such as it is, in whose nest there is a conspiratorial network headed by Bin Laden. If we attack him and his network of co-conspirators and in the course of things destabilize the Taliban, we may be doing the helpless people of Pakistan some kind of favor -- if we don't kill too many helpless civilians along the way. If we don't attack him, we will lose helpless civilians. Pick your poison. On the Israeli -- Palestine issue, It is hard to believe there will be any solution that makes any sense with Sharon in power. Somehow America has to convince an Israeli population, that already believes the US is willing to sell them out for oil, that a serious resolution of the settlement question and the creation of an integral Palestinian state is the only way to arrive at a lasting peace. The Israelis see themselves as the victims of an ongoing guerilla war, the Palestinians see themselves as the victims of ongoing Israeli aggression and state terror. What specific way to move here is not obvious. Perhaps the good bishop has some answer, but I doubt it. I haven't mentioned Syria or its client state Lebanon, but they complicate matters also. My main point is that history is useless if all you can use it for is confession of past guilt -- though it may appeal to Catholics. Best David ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:29:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 1 - hole MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = 1 - hole They all wear uniform. They are medical personnel, sportsman, housekeepers or office managers. But regardless time, place or profession, they burn with passion and desire. Plot3D[Sin[y]^4*Tan[x/y] + Tan[y*2]*Cos[x/y], {x, -2, 2}, {y, -2, 2}, ViewPoint -> {2.853, -1.004, 2.000}, PlotPoints -> 100] You can view from inside angle what they do behind the locked doors. Plot3D[holeFunction[x, y], {x, 1, 640}, {y, 1, 480}, PlotPoints -> 600, ViewPoint -> {0, -.3, 1}, Lighting -> False, Mesh -> False] Hardcore: anal, oral, deep penetrations, group action. holeFunction = ListInterpolation[Transpose[theirhole]] They show it all and even more. Show[Graphics[Raster[1 - hole], AspectRatio -> Automatic]] They do it non-stop. See it right now. Do[Plot3D[Sin[x*n]*Tan[y*n], {x, -4, 4}, {y, -4, 4}, ViewPoint -> {-3.411, -2.117, 3.884}, PlotPoints -> 40], {n, 0, 15, .5}] They are below the time. Time -> [1 - hole]; Do[Plot == ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:17:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Broken Angel Something which is absent flows nonetheless. The words contain the table they are written on. You can rest your arm on them. Simplicity belies itself, occasion Does more than reach out, it annexes Moments by subtracting them. Occasion Leaks through time, catching its hold on The rough textured edge of conviction. The "I" aspires to stretch its arms, Move about comfortably, settle in. But the invisibility of response, the familiarity Of a certain dance which takes its same turns While everyone is watching, emotions, thoughts, Predictions, choices shift into a perfectly orchestrated Ensemble:-this would not necessarily have to be Recorded in notes, you could relive it day after day, Century after century in a series of affective rituals. Although it is self-evident you observe that =ABThings live or die=BB you do admit That birth is far from painless, you Acknowledge human helplessness before diseases Like A.I.D.S.-the multiplicity of forms of physical And psychological cruelty that existence confers. Should you deny this you'll never see the space Between the glass and the landscape outside Which we all agree is lovely and in tremendous peril. The rebels are taking their positions, The old fathers are constructing weapons, People are fearing for their lives, Nobody can take their eyes off the facts for a moment. Over and over again you have to teach yourself How to breathe, how to stand and talk. Does this sound like you? It isn't you, in fact, even though we share The same world, the same trees, the same room. Sorry about the broken angel, it's no one's fault. Sometimes the years burst their seams And growth goes where it will. But There must always be time for fumbling through the memorabilia =46or putting some order next to the scurrying chaos If not around it:-a "running fence." Originally published in Central Park (#21-Spring 1992) and in Light Street (Zasterle) 1996 Nick Piombino ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:27:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Upcoming Events at the Poetry Project- Oct. 15-19 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit CALENDAR OF EVENTS Monday Oct. 15 TOM DEVANEY AND HEIDILYNN NILSSON Poet TOM DEVANEY is author of The Ameican Pragmatist Fell in Love. He writes for the experimental puppet group The Lost Art of Puppet. HEIDILYNN NILSSON's poems have appeared in Pleiades, TriQuarterly, Epoch, Agni, and the anthology The New Young American Poets. She teaches at the John Carroll School in Baltimore, where she lives with her husband. Nilsson has been described as "a new voice in American poetry-intense, musical, unpredictable and subtle-bringing a rare sincerity to transcendental concerns." [8:00 P.M.] Wednesday Oct. 17 KENWARD ELMSLIE AND BILL BERKSON Publishers Weekly has described BILL BERKSON as " ...a serene master of the syntactical sleight, transforming the mundane into the marvelous." Bill Berkson is the author of 15 books and pamphlets of poetry including Saturday Night: Poems 1960-61, Shining Leaves, Recent Visitors, Enigma Variations (with drawings by Philip Guston), Blue Is the Hero, Lush Life, Serenade and just out from Zoland Books, Fugue State. He is also a Corresponding Editor for Art in America and a regular contributor to Artforum, Modern Painters, Art on Paper, American Craft and others. Alice Notley describes much of KENWARD ELMSLIE's work as having "been in the form of librettos and lyrics, words for songs. Thus two things might be mentioned: a sense of a poem as not so much a drama as a small theater, with a stage to be enlivened, and a sound/metric influenced by popular song (as well as by something Beat-poetry-like, in that use of the articleless pronounless word pileup characteristic of people born in the 20s.)" Kenward Elmslie's way with words cuts a singular swath through a polymath variety of forms. His works include The Champ, City Junket (a play), 26 Bars, Routine Disruptions, The Grass Harp (a Broadway cult-fave musical), Cyberspace and Nite Soil. [8:00 P.M.] Friday Oct. 19 WITH OUT HANDS: SLIDE PRESENTATION, POETRY READING, AND DISCUSSION With Out Hands: A Slide Presentation, Poetry Reading and Q & A Discussion. Liberian born painter/photographer will present a slide show with music, during which he will discuss the political philosophies that inform his paintings and photographs. Caranda-Martin, the son of a prominent Liberian government official, is currently represented by Atmosphere gallery in South Chelsea. Some of the work to be shown was exhibited in the Summer Salon at the Philadelphia Museum of Art. A reception will follow the presentation. [10:30 P.M.] THE POETRY PROJECT is located in St. Mark's Church, 2nd Ave. & 10th St. in Manhattan. Visit our website at WWW.POETRYPROJECT.COM for more information. Programs subject to change. Unless otherwise noted, admission to events is $7 general, $4 students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:32:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: brandon stosuy Subject: PROSE ACTS SCHEDULE In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable PROSE ACTS: October 18-21, 2001 Four days of contemporary radical writing and underground music in Buffalo, New York PROSE ACTS brings together importantly fearless poets, writers, and musicians for an incisive four-day onslaught in/on Buffalo, New York. It looks like a conference but thinks more like a festival. It acts like a festival but will surface as a brainstorm. The participants are Dennis Cooper, Eileen Myles, Dodie Bellamy, Kevin Killian, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite, Robert Gl=FCck, Sander Hicks, Matthew Stadler, White Collar Crime, kari edwards, Roberto Tejada, Krakatoa, Ether Drag, and The National= . Prose Acts takes place - in the shadows - at The State University of New York, Hallwalls Contemporary Art Center, and The Big Orbit Gallery. The events will take place October 18-21, 2001. Prose Acts involves multiple panel discussions, readings by each author, sets by various musicians, and other related events. The panels, moderated by Mike Basinski, Caroline Koebel, and David Schmid from SUNY-Buffalo, will consist of round table discussions between invitees and the audience. The panel topics: "Flail the Narrative: Subverting and Reinventing Narrative Expectations"; "Pop the Culture: Pop, Horror, Trash"; and "Talking Dirty= : Sexual Politics, Pornography, and Desire." The panel participants: Dennis Cooper, Eileen Myles, Dodie Bellamy, Kevin Killian, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite, kari edwards, Robert Gl=FCck, Matthew Stadler, and Michelle Tea. In addition to the prose readings and panels, Kevin Killian, an acclaimed playwright whose works are known chiefly on the west coast, will direct the performance of the east coast premiere of his play "The Vegetable Kingdom" (a play about Yoko Ono and game shows, among other things). The actors in the play are Dennis Cooper, Dodie Bellamy, Eileen Myles, Lawrence Braithwaite, Robert Gl=FCck, etc. Prose Acts is the first major celebration of these writers' works and will be a significant gathering of radical intellectuals from various communities.=20 For More Information Please visit the Prose Acts website at http: //epc.buffalo.edu/conferences/01/proseacts/prose.html Contact: Brandon Stosuy=20 716.886.1957 bstosuy@acsu.buffalo.edu. This is the schedule. Check http://epc.buffalo.edu/conferences/01/proseacts/prose.html for updates. THURSDAY, 18 OCTOBER Afternoon: The Poetry/Rare Books Room 3:30-5:00 PM Panel Discussion: "Flail the Narrative: Subverting and Reinventing Narrative Expectations"=20 Moderator: Mike Basinski Participants: Lawrence Braithwaite, Dennis Cooper, Kevin Killian Robert Gluck, Eileen Myles. 8:00 PM Scout, Opening Event (in cooperation with Prose Acts): Akilah Oliver & Michelle Tea (readings) The Need (band) CANCELLED $10 general, $8 students, $6 Hallwalls & just buffalo members FRIDAY, 19 OCTOBER Afternoon: Big Orbit Gallery 2:30-4:00 PM Panel Discussion: "Pop the Culture: Punk, Horror, Trash" Moderator: David Schmid Participants: Dodie Bellamy, Lawrence Braithwaite, Dennis Cooper, Michelle Tea Prose Acts at Hallwalls 8:00 P.M.: Dodie Bellamy & Matthew Stadler (readings) 10:00 P.M.: Eileen Myles & kari edwards (readings) 12:00 A.M.: Krakatoa (band) $6 general, $5 students & members SATURDAY, 20 OCTOBER Afternoon: Big Orbit Gallery 12:30-2:00 PM Panel Discussion: "Talking Dirty: Sexual Politics, Pornography, and Desire" Moderator: Caroline Koebel Participants: Dodie Bellamy, kari edwards, Robert Gluck, Kevin Killian, Eileen Myles, Matthew Stadler Prose Acts at Hallwalls 8:00 P.M.: Dennis Cooper & Lawrence Braithwaite (readings) 10:00 P.M.: The Vegetable Kingdom: a play by Kevin Killian & Rex Ray (staged reading performed by visiting writers, including Eileen Myles as Yoko Ono) 12:00 A.M.: Ether Drag & The National (bands) $6 general, $5 students & members Sunday, Oct. 21 =80 4:00 P.M. Scout, Program 2 (in cooperation with Prose Acts): Mary Gaitskill & Peter Trachtenberg (readings) $6 general, $5 students, $4 Hallwalls & just buffalo members Co-sponsored by just buffalo Sunday, Oct. 21 Prose Acts at Hallwalls 7:00 P.M.: Robert Gl=FCck & Kevin Killian (readings) 9:30 P.M.: Sander Hicks (reading) 10:00 P.M. White Collar Crime (band) $6 general, $5 students & members Event locations: BIG ORBIT GALLERY 30 d Essex Street, Buffalo, New York HALLWALLS CONTEMPORARY ARTS CENTER The Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main Street Suite 425, Buffalo, New York THE POETRY/RARE BOOKS COLLECTION 420 Capen Hall Box 602200, The State University of New York at Buffalo [North Campus] Buffalo, New York. Prose Acts: A four-day student pass for all Prose Acts events is $12. We ca= n be flexible. A four-day non-student pass is $16. (Scout events require separate admission fee) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:47:16 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Notes + Statement by Fredric Jameson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron. You probably wern't: but this is an interesting link: Jameson puts into words something I was trying to say: there are many issues or "aspects" to this...so many that one nearly goes mad. Jameson would do well to talk to Blair. How can I put it delicately: Marjorie Perloff and many others of her general "class" are very well paid: essentially they are bourgeoius: bourgeouis philosophy or mores predominate and in fact permaeates the thinking of many people throughout the world. After all , where's the next pay day: who pays me? Liberal thinking of kind that is essentially simplistic. A more complex, or subtle modern mind, can see a strange beauty in the logic or dialectical movement of hese events while retaining one's basic human response: hence I can see the destruction of thetowers as being poitico-aestheically poetic or as Stockhaussen rightly realised: "a great work of art": they were! This doesnt mean that the deaths of the people involved thus becomes irrelevant. Patrick's "paranoic" view may seem fantastic: but to simplify it is quite true that control by proxy and or by direct attack and occupation by the US and Britain is historically and economically of enormous importance to maintaining their ecnomic life: it is a fact that China and even India, and the potentiallity of the Middle East are as fearful to the ruling classes as Communism was when Marx proclaimed his manifesto: the Right in the capitalist nations ARE terrified both of others biting into their drug, oil, and many other products, and they also hunger for massively greater control to increase and "soften up" the availability and malleability of labour. Shock horror, millions starve etc and sweat but when the big symbols of US Capitalism crash down what an outcry!! Now there is the threat of an unlimited war in which the western antions make the rules as they go while hypocritically pretending to be humanists. Long live Bin Laden and terrorism: terroism or freedom action is the hope of the dispossessed. And long live the working people every where: and let live now all kinds of cultures and peoples just as we do all kinds of living things. I want to see the destruction of Capitalism and if that involves more towers and more wars, then so be it: it is part of a long term struggle. Bush is right: it will be long, long enough to see the demise of the US as it is today. Ha! CIA: I support Bin Laden - come and kill me or arrest me I dangerous: I support the Palestinians as he does: I'm dangerous - I'm 53, getting sick of things - what have I got to lose: come on Big Bad America or Big Bad Britain: come and cut my throat before I join the Jihad. Death to Bush and Blair! Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Vidaver" To: Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 8:10 AM Subject: Notes + Statement by Fredric Jameson > Richard, I didn't think I was making any comment on the " 'more of the same' > versus 'qualitative change' " debate--only forwarding a review of Empire. > You may have taken the reviewer's excerpted comments as mine? Oddly, > Marjorie Perloff's hermeneutics may coincide with those of everyone's > favourite Eugene, Oregon anarchist John Zerzan, on the question of > interpreting "the event" as an attack on civilization as such. (Selections > from Zerzan's writing, which may not be familiar to left/ultraleft writers > here, are available at: http://www.spunk.org/library/writers/zerzan and > http://recollectionbooks.com/siml/library/JohnZerzan/zercon.html). But why > haven't we heard more from Taylor Brady this last week? I hope he hasn't > vacated in disgust at the unexpected enactments of jingoism presented to us > on this list. I'm waiting to read more anaylsis from him. Well, back to my > Inman & Poulantzas. > > Aaron Vidaver > Vancouver > > Here's a statement from Jameson, also from the London Review of Books. > http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n19/mult2319.htm#jameson > > Fredric Jameson > North Carolina > > I have been reluctant to comment on the recent 'events' because the event in > question, as history, is incomplete and one can even say that it has not yet > fully happened. > > Obviously there are immediate comments one can make, in particular on the > nauseating media reception, whose cheap pathos seemed unconsciously dictated > by a White House intent on smothering the situation in sentiment in order to > demonstrate the undemonstrable: namely, that 'Americans are united as never > before since Pearl Harbor.' I suppose this means that they are united by the > fear of saying anything that contradicts this completely spurious media > consensus. > > Historical events, however, are not punctual, but extend in a before and > after of time which only gradually reveal themselves. It has, to be sure, > been pointed out that the Americans created bin Laden during the Cold War > (and in particular during the Soviet war in Afghanistan), and that this is > therefore a textbook example of dialectical reversal. But the seeds of the > event are buried deeper than that. They are to be found in the wholesale > massacres of the Left systematically encouraged and directed by the > Americans in an even earlier period. The physical extermination of the Iraqi > and the Indonesian Communist Parties, although now historically repressed > and forgotten, were crimes as abominable as any contemporary genocide. It > is, however, only now that the results are working their way out into > actuality, for the resultant absence of any Left alternative means that > popular revolt and resistance in the Third World have nowhere to go but into > religious and 'fundamentalist' forms. > > As for the future, no one (presumably including our own Government) has any > idea what the promised and threatened 'war on terrorism' might look like. > But until we know that, we can have no satisfactory picture of the 'events' > we imagine to have taken place on a single day in September. Despite this > uncertainty, however, it is permitted to feel that the future holds nothing > good for either side. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:45:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: aaron belz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hey can you backchannel me? Thanks, RW ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:15:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Fwd: writing lives at the new school Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" WRITING LIVES AT THE NEW SCHOOL Thursday, October 18 * Saturday, October 20. Readings and panels: 5$; symposium pass: $25. Free to New School degree students and Poetry Society of America members. By gathering distinguished and provocative writers, artists, and scholars from various cultural perspectives, we wish to engage The New School audience in an inquiry into how our own story-telling is changing in contemporary culture. Co-sponsored by the Writing Program, the Department of Social Sciences, Fence, the Anthropology Department of Columbia University, and the Poetry Society of America with the support of the New York Council for the Humanities, the National Endowment for the Humanities, and the National Endowment for the Arts. http://www.nsu.newschool.edu/writing.htm ***** SCHEDULE OF EVENTS All panels meet in the Orozco Room, 66 West 12th Street, 7th floor unless otherwise noted. All readings will be held in Tishman Auditorium, 66 West 12th Street. THURSDAY, OCTOBER 18 BIOGRAPHY 1:00 * 2:30 pm Peter Guralnick, Honor Moore, Robert Polito, Judith Thurman POETRY* 3:00 * 4:30 pm Mark Levine, D.A. Powell, Claudia Rankine, Juliana Spahr *panel will be held in Room 407, 66 West 12th Street ANTHROPOLOGY* 5:00 * 6:30 pm Susan Lepselter, Rosalind C. Morris, Kathleen Stewart, Michael Taussig *panel will be held in Room 407, 66 West 12th Street READING 7:00 pm Including Frank Bidart, Mark Doty, Stuart Dybek, Mark Levine, D.A. Powell, Claudia Rankine, Juliana Spahr FRIDAY, OCTOBER 19 CHAMBER MUSIC 10:00 * 11:30 am Pamela Clemit, Nora Crook, Jeanne Moskal, Michael Rossington, Gina Luria Walker MIXED GENRE 1:00 * 2:30 pm Mark Doty, Wayne Koestenbaum, Donna Masini, Sapphire PERFECT HISTORY: LIVES AS HISTORICAL PRESENTATION 3:00 * 4:30 pm Nora Crook, John hristian Laursen, Nell Painter, Ann-Louise Shapiro FICTION 5:00 * 6:30 pm Lily Brett, Peter Carey, Patrick McGrath, Richard Price READING 7:00 pm Including Lily Brett, Brenda Hillman, Wayne Koestenbaum, Phillip Lopate, Patrick McGrath, Richard Price, C.D. Wright SATURDAY, OCTOBER 20 DOCUMENTARY 10:00 * 11:30 am Michael Camerini, Susan Meiselas, Joel Meyerowitz, Shari Robertson, Alix Spiegel, Richard Woodward POETRY 1:00 * 2:30 pm Frank Bidart, Charles Bernstein, Brenda Hillman, C.D. Wright MEMOIR 3:00 * 4:30 pm Jo Ann Beard, Lucy Grealy, Phillip Lopate, Mark Matousek, Art Spielgelman ***** Location: The New School, 66 West 12th Street (between 5th & 6th Avenues) Tickets: New School Box Office hours: Monday-Thursday 1:00-8:00 p.m., Friday 1:00-7:00 p.m. Tickets by phone with a credit card (212) 229-5488; in person at Box Office, 66 West 12th Street (between 5th and 6th Avenues), main floor; by fax 24 hours to (212) 352-0213. Most events are FREE to New School students with ID. Information: For more information or special needs requests, call (212) 229-5353. Questions can be e-mailed to specialprograms@newschool.edu. ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:02:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kiwi Subject: Green Integer Guide to International Fiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Green Integer is proud to announce that the first section of its GREEN INTEGER GUIDE TO INTERNATIONAL FICTION is now up at its website www.greeninteger.com. The guide will ultimately list major works of fiction of the 20th = century with brief descriptions of each title or short reviews. We also try to send readers to the proper places to purchase all titles. Over the next several months we will be posting, on regular basis, more sections of this GUIDE. The first section, the A's, now appears at the site. Of course, we hope you will visit the Green Integer site and = suggest other titles with short commentary. We cannot promise to list your = suggested title(s), but we will try to integrate as many as seems appropriate to = our listings. We also invite you to take a look at the books we have published to = date, all listed at our site. As new ones appear, we represent these as well. All = books may be ordered through the website or by e-mailing me, Douglas Messerli at djmess@greeninteger.com =20 If you prepay, which we encourage you to do, please write all checks to = Douglas Messerli (not to Green Integer). We hope you enjoy our new free Green Integer Guide to International = Fiction. Douglas Messerli ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:46:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Burger Subject: Second Sundays 10/14, Oakland Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The show must go on! Reading: Peter Neufeld Camille Roy [Note program change. Sawako Nakayasu, originally scheduled for this event, was unable to travel to CA this weekend.] Sunday, Oct. 14, 7:00 pm, $2.00 The Stork Club, 2330 Telegraph Ave between 23rd and 24th St. By BART: get off at 19th St, walk one block west to Telegraph, then up about 5 blocks, just past 23rd. The Stork Club has a large and vivid sign. 21 AND OVER ONLY! (Sorry--The Stork cards everyone!) Peter Neufeld was born in 1971 in Reedley, CA. He is the editor of melodeon poetry systems, a small press focusing on the work of young experimental poets, and one of the founding editors of the international poetry journal Aufgabe. His work has appeared or is forthcoming in Chain, Kenning, Spinning Jenny, Lipstick 11, Mungo vs. Ranger, San Jose Manual of Style, and disClosure. He is the author of The Glass Owl (a+bend press, 2000). He lives in Brooklyn. Poet, playwright, and prose writer Camille Roy has established a reputation with smart and gutsy works that weave theoretically-informed explorations of language with fresh and unflinching looks at the identity politics of class, gender, and sexuality. Her collection The Rosy Medallions was published by Kelsey St. in 1995. Swarm, a book of two novellas, was published by Black Star Series in 1998. Camille is a literary curator at New Langton Arts. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:04:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: devineni@RATTAPALLAX.COM Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?other?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends: As many of you know of the benefit readings happening on Oct 17th for the= World Trade Center Relief Fund in NYC and San Francisco. But, there is an ironic outcome from the remarkable outpouring of money to the various Sept 11 relief funds, there are many not-for-profit organizations in the USA and else where that have not been getting their regular contributions= . And a few are close to failing. So, there are a few different things th= at I plan to do: Besides money, Rattapallax Press is contributing 1000 new books and copie= s of our back-issues to various not-for-profit organizations to sell and ke= ep 100% of the proceeds. We will be donating 150 copies of Bill Kushner's collection to the NY Pee= r AIDS Education Coalition (NYPAEC). Bill is a popular gay NYC poet associ= ated with the St. Mark's Poetry Project scene. In addition, Bill has voluntee= red to host a few readings to raise funds for NYPAEC. I have asked all of writers/poets to select a not-for-profit organization= they support and commit to raising funds for them through readings and bo= oks sales. I realize that I am small-fish, but hopefully this will raise some critic= al funds and attention for important not-for-profit organizations on the bri= nk of failure. Cheers, Ram Devineni Rattapallax Press http://www.dialoguepoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:09:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: language of our times Robespierre's Republic of Virtue In-Reply-To: <20011008211705.51774.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Peter, but I saw Homeland (Fatherland?) security as many evil methods to secure safety. I have been likening it to Robespierre's "Committee for public safety" From Robespierre's Republic of Virtue What is the aim we want to achieve? The peaceful enjoyment of liberty and equality; the reign of that eternal justice whose laws are engraved not in stone and marble, but in the hearts of all men, even in the heart of the slave who forgets them or of the tyrant who disowns them. We want a state of affairs where all despicable and cruel passions are unknown, and all kind and generous passions are aroused by the laws; where ambition is the desire to deserve glory and to serve the fatherland; where distinctions arise only from equality itself; where the citizen submits to the magistrate, the magistrate to the people and the people to justice; where the fatherland guarantees the well-being of each individual, and where each individual enjoys with pride the prosperity and glory of the fatherland; where all souls elevate themselves through constant communication or republican sentiments and through the need to deserve the esteem of a great people; where the arts are the decorations of liberty that ennobles them, where commerce is the source of public wealth and not only of the monstrous opulence of a few house. In our country we want to substitute morality for egoism, honesty for honor, principles for customs, duties for decorum, the rule of reason for the tyranny of custom, the contempt of vice for the contempt of misfortune, pride for insolence, magnanimity for vanity, love of glory for love of money, good people for well-bred people, merit for intrigue, genius for wit, truth for pompous action, warmth of happiness for boredom of sensuality, greatness of man for pettiness of the great; a magnanimous, powerful, happy people for a polite, frivolous, despicable people -- that is to say, all the virtues and all the miracles of the Republic for all the vices and all the absurdities of the monarchy. In one word, we want to fulfill the wishes of nature, accomplish the destiny of humanity, keep the promises of philosophy, absolve Providence from the long reign of crime and tyranny. What kind of government can realize these marvels? Only a democratic or republican government. But what is the fundamental principle of the democratic or popular government, that is o say, the essential strength that sustains it and makes it move? It is virtue: I am speaking of the public virtue which brought about so many marvels in Greece and Rome and which must bring about much more astonishing ones yet in republican France; of that virtue which is nothing more than love of the fatherland and of its laws. If the strength of popular government in peacetime is virtue, the strength of popular government in revolution is both virtue and terror; terror without virtue is disastrous, virtue without terror is powerless. Terror is nothing but prompt, severe, and inflexible justice; it is thus an emanation of virtue; it is less a particular principle than a consequence of the general principle of democracy applied to the most urgent needs of the fatherland. It is said that terror is the strength of despotic government. Does ours then resemble the one with which the satellites of tyranny are armed. Let the despot govern his brutalized subjects through terror; he is right as a despot. Subdue the enemies of liberty through terror and you will be right as founders of the Republic. The government of revolution is the despotism of liberty against tyranny. [Source: Richard W. Lyman and Lewis W. Spitz, eds., Major Crises in Western Civilization, vol. 2 (New York: Harcourt, Brace & World, 1965), pp. 71-72.] Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Peter Balestrieri Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 5:17 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: language of our times Two historical ironies I find very disturbing: the use of "ground zero," previously used to decribe the center of the U.S. attack on Hiroshima's civilian population, and "homeland security," with it's echo of South African apartheid. Coincidence: two foreigners and non-Listees have the analyses I've read here that come closest to my own heart and mind - the Dalai Lama and Arundhati Roy. Pete Balestrieri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:45:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Vietnam Vets In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Elizabeth Treadwell rocks (one reason: she has noticed how Chris Alexander rocks. Thank you, Chris, for all of this.) Most recently Elizabeth rocks for bringing up Country Joe MacDonald and his statement about Vietname vets. I have actually heard a lot of Vietnam vets calling in to NPR for various call-in shows and yes, they do seem to have a singular understanding of the deep problems in our current military actions. As one said, "soliders need to know who they are fighting. It's great to have a mission if you know what the mission IS." His voice was shaking as he spoke. It once again drove home for me, someone who is often glibly anti-military, just how hard war is on the people who fight it. The vets are just more casualities, in a way. This was certainly true in Israel, where practically everyone over the age of 20 is a vet. As the intifada wore on, the Israeli teenagers who were my sister's friends became less and less enamored with the idea of serving in the Tzahal, and one friend shot himself in the foot to avoid serving. I knew another solider who came home mentally exhausted from just standing silently while children cursed him and threw stones at him. (This was someone who DID just stand there.) I know this doesn't make military action any less wrong -- it's just a call for compassion for the people who have been through it on that end. Arielle --- Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson wrote: > >>I also think that it is not bigoted to ask how > much of true Islam is in > >>the terrorists actions? I write this > not as an agnostic but as a practicing Catholic. I > can say with assurance > that my Church's positions on > for example what happened during the Holocaust or > what happened during the > colonization of the > Americas were based in true theology. Catholic > theology for 1800 years has > condemned the Jews, it > made Native Americans into objects rather than > subjects and allowed their > murder and enslavement and > all Catholics have to admit this and as John XXIII > said let the light in so > that the roaches can be seen. > Our theology made these things possible, does > Islamic theology make these > terror acts possible? > > > > Ray I think you are brave to bring this up, and to > reflect on your own > religion as was Arielle earlier. Daughter of a > lapsed Catholic, > stepgranddaughter of a devout one, I can say that > yes, all Catholics have to > admit this, and all that might ever turn to the > church in a time of need > might be stopped by this horrible history. Beginning > for me with the demonic > sexism of all of the "top 3" religions, I don't have > much truck with em. But > I would add, there is not only the ideology but the > culture, the day-to-day > living, to consider. It wasn't ideology that killed > Native Americans, it was > people, for ex. (I realize you are aware of this, > Ray!) > What I am unable to wrap my mind around is that some > people actually > believed this religious junk which worked hand in > hand with genocide. It's > always seemed to me that it was just fake. Like the > treaties were fake, ie > not in good faith. Like Georgie is fake with his > words and "beliefs". > Anyway, I suppose I'm a bit rambly having been > meditatively and luckily in > the country all weekend and now returning to the > news of the present > bombing. But I would also like to add that I think > it is very very important > that, however lamely, the Pres and the Press are > saying, oh by the way, > don't assume all Muslims are terrorists. I was glad > Bush said that in his > address to Congress -- although he could have been a > little blunter, like > maybe just flat out saying um, hey, don't kill your > neighbors because they > are strange to you. But oh yeah, that doesn't fit > with his ideology. > Country Joe McDonald was in the Chronicle today > saying who we should most be > listening to now is Vietnam vets. > > Peace be with you. And also with you. > > Elizabeth Treadwell > > > "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." > -- Joan of Arc (trans > Willard Trask) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:41:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: veterans for peace... In-Reply-To: <11a.53526d6.28f3ce86@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i've posted this to another list, so apologies for the dupe: but one of the most heartening websites out there right now is the "veterans for peace" site, at http://www.veteransforpeace.org their call for international law enforcement---having participated first-hand in the hell of war---is underwritten by a pretty keen understanding of the history of the current conflict, and other such conflicts... i think it was woody powell (?) of said org (korean war vet) who, the other night, gave bill o'reilly a real run for his money... and the point is, B/C these folks are vets, they tend to receive a fairer hearing (i'm not saying it *should be* this way, mind you)... but check 'em out... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:31:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Pipeline -- Background info.... Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (from: Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd. apologies for crossposting... joe brennan) Unocol, Bridas wooing Taliban for $4.5bn Pak gas pipeline Islamabad, June 1: Even as the Talibans are still fighting to establish complete control over Afghanistan, three multinationals, including two American, are trying to woo the Islamic militia for its support to the proposed multi-billion dollar oil and gas pipelines to be laid through the country. The highly lucrative two pipelines one for oil and another for natural gas would be laid from Turkeministan to Pakistan via Afghanistan at a combined cost of $4.5 billion and the multinationals are leaving no stone unturned to win the coveted contract. US multinational, Unocol and Argentinian Bridas, fought a bitter fight over the $2 billion gas pipeline and according to media reports here Unocol has already established an edge over its rival for the 1,300 km-long pipeline which would be up to the Pakistani city of Multan. But Bridas has reportedly entered into a `deal' with the Talibans thus making it difficult for Unocol to implement the project as a major portion of it would pass through Afghanistan and hence Bridas has to be made a party to the contract. The fate of the more attractive $2.5 billion oil pipeline, however, is yet to be decided and the latest entrant into this cut-throat competition is Global Data Communication (GDC), another US multinational. GDC, it seems, has thrown everything behind winning this coveted contract and that is why its president himself flew down to Kabul last week to meet Taliban government minister for industries and investment Mulla Ahmad Jan, according to reports reaching here. GDC has reportedly made a highly luring offer of $1 billion per annum to the Taliban adminstration as transit fee for the safe passage of oil through Afghanistan. Jan had conceded during an interview with a local daily that out of the three companies the terms and conditions offered by GDC were most suitable.Apart from offering an annual transit fee the GDC has also proposed to lay down railway track, road and provide electricity along the pipeline and setting up police post at every 20 kms to be manned by Taliban's men. The taliban minister has said that they are yet to take a final decision in this regard and would prefer the company which comes up with the most attractive offer. The Unocol and Bridas are yet to make an offer for this project. The project, for which Paksitan and Turkeministan have signed a MoU during the `eco summit' in the second week of last month, envisages laying of the 1,700 km pipeline up to a Pakistani port in the Arabian Sea. The project also includes setting up of an oil terminal at the port. The idea is to export oil to a third country in the region. The implementation of this ambitious project, however, entirely depends on the political situation in Afghanistan as the Taliban are yet to bring under their control some of the strategic areas in the central and northern Afghanistan where war was still raging. Copyright =A9 1997 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 12:46:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" -Pierre Joris wrote: >>from current program of 107TH CONGRESS, 1st SESSION: "IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES September ___, 2001 _______________ A BILL To combat terrorism and defend the Nation against terrorist acts, and for other purposes." It's the last 3 words that count. >> Just as an info point, those three words are **always** present in statutory language -- they are boilerplate. Also, the sentence you quote is prefatory to the actual law, and do not have any legal force. So it's not some sinister utterance intended to cover nefarious activities by the US govt. The phrase is simply innocuous boilerplate. -- I think it's important for everyone, not only in the US but around the world, to have enough of an idea about how the govt works so that you can actually spot when it's taking short cuts with civil liberties and constitutional rights. That does happen, it *is* happening now, but this is not one example of it. So here's a bit more about that phrase: As for "and other purposes" - when drafting legislation, you stick them on to that prefatory sentence all the time. Ages ago, I drafted a law to establish a federally funded Hearing Ear Dog program for deaf people, and the prefatory sentence I wrote to that bill was something like " To establish a program providing canine assistance to persons with hearing impairments, and for other purposes." It's totally routine. I mostly work to enforce the Occupational Safety and Health Act, which begins with this sentence, which as you'll notice ends with the non-dread "for other purposes." "To assure safe and healthful working conditions for working men and women; by authorizeing enforcement of standards developed under the Act; by assisting and encouraging the States in their efforts to assure safe and healthful working conditions; by providint for research, information, education, and training in the field of occupational safety and health; and for other purposes." LF ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:21:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: MISSING THE OIL STORY Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (The following is a broadcast featured on TomPaine.common sense -- http://www.tompaine.com/news/2001/10/11/index.html) MISSING THE OIL STORY by Nina Burleigh (Nina Burleigh has written for The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, and New York magazine. As a reporter for TIME, she was among the first American journalists to enter Iraq after the Gulf War.) Recently I attended one of those legendary Washington dinner parties, attended by British cosmopolites and Americans in the know. A few courses in, people were gossiping about the Bush family's close and enduring friendship with the Saudi ambassador, Prince Bandar, dean of the diplomatic corps in Washington. By the end of the evening, everyone was talking about how the unfolding events were going to affect the flow of oil out of Central Asia. I left wondering whether 6,000 Americans might prove to have died in New York for the royal family of Saud, or oil, or both. But I didn't have much more than insider dinner gossip to go on. I get my analysis from the standard all-American news outlets. And they've been too focused on a) anthrax and smallpox, or b) the intricacies of Muslim fanaticism, to throw any reporters at the murky ways in which international oil politics and its big players have a stake in what's unfolding. A quick Nexis search brought up a raft of interesting leads that would keep me busy for 10 years if the economics of this war was my beat. But only two articles in the American media since September 11 have tried to describe how Big Oil might benefit from a cleanup of terrorists and other anti-American elements in the Central Asia region. One was by James Ridgeway of the Village Voice. The other was by a Hearst writer based in Paris and it was picked up only in the San Francisco Chronicle. In other words, only the Left is connecting the dots of what the Russians have called "The Great Game" -- how oil underneath the 'stans' fits into the new world order. Here's just a small slice of what ought to provoke deeper research by American reporters with resources and talent. Start with father Bush. The former president and ex-CIA director is not unemployed these days. He's been globetrotting as a member of Washington's Carlyle Group, a $12 billion private equity firm which employs a motorcade of former ranking Republicans, including Frank Carlucci, Jim Baker and Richard Darman. George Bush senior and colleagues open doors overseas for The Carlyle Group's "access capitalists." Bush specializes in Asia and has been in and out of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (countries that revere him thanks to the Gulf War) often on business since his presidency. Baker, the pin-striped midwife of 'Election 2000' was working his network in the 'stans' before the ink was dry on Clinton's first inaugural address. The Bin Laden family (presumably the friendly wing) is also invested in Carlyle. Carlyle's portfolio is heavy in defense and telecommunications firms, although it has other holdings including food and bottling companies. The Carlyle connection means that George Bush Senior is on the payroll from private interests that have defense business before the government, while his son is president. Hmmm. As Charles Lewis of the Washington-based Center for Public Integrity, has put it, "in a really peculiar way, George W. Bush could, some day, benefit financially from his own administration's decisions, through his father's investments. And that to me is a jaw-dropper." Why can we assume that global businessmen like Bush Senior and Jim Baker care about who runs Afghanistan and NOT just because it's home base for lethal anti-Americans? Because it also happens to be situated in the middle of that perennial vital national interest -- a region with abundant oil. By 2050, Central Asia will account for more than 80 percent of our oil. On September 10, an industry publication, Oil and Gas Journal, reported that Central Asia represents one of the world's last great frontiers for geological survey and analysis, "offering opportunities for investment in the discovery, production, transportation, and refining of enormous quantities of oil and gas resources." It's assumed we need unimpeded access in the 'stans' for our geologists, construction workers and pipelines if we are going to realize the conservation-free, fossil-fueled future outlined recently by Vice President Cheney. A number of pipeline projects to carry Central Asia's resources west are already under way or have been proposed. They would go through Russia, through the Caucasus or via Turkey and Iran. Each route will be within easy reach of the Taliban's thugs and could be made much safer by an American vanquishment of Muslim terrorism. There's also lots of oil beneath the turf of our politically precarious newest best friend, Pakistan. "Massive untapped gas reserves are believed to be lying beneath Pakistan's remotest deserts, but they are being held hostage by armed tribal groups demanding a better deal from the central government," reported Agence France Presse just days before September 11. So many business deals, so much oil, all those big players with powerful connections to the Bush administration. It doesn't add up to a conspiracy theory. But it does mean there is a significant MONEY subtext that the American public ought to know about as "Operation Enduring Freedom" blasts new holes where pipelines might someday be buried. This is Nina Burleigh for TomPaine.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:22:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: The waving of flags MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Thomas Bell" > Joel, > Like you, I question what seems to be a return to business as usual on > the part of the media and advertisers - let's sell more flags, etc. But > i'm having trouble seing how poetry can transmute this into a new vision. > From my reading of poetry's role in the past, poetry written for a reason or > to promote an ideology tends to become "message" poetry. The classical > example for me is Trotsky's _Poetry and Revolution_ call which was taken > over and led to Socialist Realism. The other impulse which was in the air > at the time was overwhelmed and driven out of the market-place - Kruchenyk, > for example, or Khlebnikov - was toward experimentation and the materiality > of the poem. If poetry is to have any effect it seems to me that it should > (there I go myself being prescriptive!) NOT be ideological? > Hi Tom. I'm not a fan of direct political work, in any of the arts, as I don't think this kind of work holds past a particular issue, or time, which quickly passes. A poem must (also) be in touch with a deeper, mythopoetic level. Too many examples to name here, and this being a list of educated poets I'm sure most everyone can think of examples of successful "political" poems. But I think you're right about "ideological" poetry. If nothing else, they tend to be self-serving. Political, however, has to do with the body politic, with our daily sweat of a People. -Joel Joel Weishaus Center for Excellence in Writing Portland State University Portland, Oregon. http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:32:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Collins, Corbett, Barrett, Luacanno, Torra read at Brookline Booksmith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My review of Billy Collins' new book is posted at: http://www.unm.edu/~reality/Writing/Collins.htm -Joel Joel Weishaus Center for Excellence in Writing Portland State University Portland, Oregon. http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Behrle" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: Collins, Corbett, Barrett, Luacanno, Torra read at Brookline Booksmith > This week at Brookline Booksmith: > > Wednesday 10/10 6 PM Billy Collins > > Thursday 10/11 7 PM William Corbett and Ed Barrett > > Sunday 10/14 6 PM Joe Torra and Christopher Sawyer-Lucanno > > Call for more information. Hope to see you. > > Be well. > > --jim > > -- > Jim Behrle, Events Director > Brookline Booksmith > 279 Harvard St. > Brookline, MA 02446 > (617) 739 6002 [phone and voice mail] > (617) 734 9125 [fax] > events@brooklinebooksmith.com > http://www.brooklinebooksmith.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:34:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER: POG Collective reading, Saturday Oct 13 7pm, Living Community Center MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit REMINDER: for immediate release POG presents Members of the POG Collective Saturday, October 13, 7pm Living Community Center, 330 E. Seventh Street Admission: $5; Students $3 Readers will include Samuel Ace Charles Alexander Jefferson Carter Andrew Foster Maggie Golston Elizabeth Landry Rachel McCrystal Heather Nagami Tenney Nathanson Tim Peterson Frances Shoberg Jonathan Vanballenberghe POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council and the Arizona Commission on the Arts POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Extended University Writing Works Center, The University of Arizona Department of English, The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, and Chax Press. for further information contact POG: 296-6416 www.gopog.org mailto:pog@gopog.org Samuel Ace (formerly L. Smukler) is a the author of two collections of poetry: Normal Sex (Firebrand Books) and Home in three days. Don’t wash., a book and multi-media project with accompanying cd-rom (Hard Press). His work has been widely anthologized, and he is the recipient of numerous awards in poetry and fiction including the 1997 Firecracker Alternative Book Award in Poetry. He has received fellowships in poetry from the New York Foundation for the Arts and the Astraea Foundation. Charles Alexander: poet, maker of books. Directs Chax Press. Books include Hopeful Buildings (Chax Press), arc of light/dark matter (Segue Books), Pushing Water (Standing Stones Press), Four Ninety Eight to Seven (Meow Press), A Book of Hours (5 & Dime Press), Etudes: D & D (Quarry Press), and the forthcoming Near or Random Acts (Wild Honey Press). He edited Talking the Boundless Book: Art, Language, and the Book Arts. Has taught in recent times at University of Arizona (Extended University), Pima Community College, and Naropa University. Jefferson Carter is Writing Department chair at Pima Community College, the Downtown Campus. He’s had work in e-zines like as CrossConnect and journals such as Barrow Street and Carolina Quarterly. His chapbook Tough Love won the 1993 Riverstone Poetry Press Award, and his newest chapbook, Homemade Arrows is just out from Red Felt Publishing. Andrew Foster is from Vermont. He writes fiction and poetry. At this moment, he idolizes Lewis Mumford and Emily Dickinson, and he is at work on a book tentatively titled “Jen Smile.” A poem of his will be coming in the next Interim. Maggie Golston is currently on much-needed leave from the PhD program at U Utah. She has an MFA from UA. She is thrilled to be back. Elizabeth Landry’s work has been published in antennae and in The POG 2 Anthology (on sale here tonight!!). Rachel McCrystal. is a literature student at the U of A. Her work has appeared in sanscript. She works as a ballroom/latin dance instructor to pay for poetry and writing classes. Heather Nagami is an MFA student in poetry at the University of Arizona and the editor of Sonora Review. Tenney Nathanson is the author of Whitman’s Presence (NYU Press), The Book of Death (Membrane Press), One Block Over (Chax Press), and the forthcoming Erased Art (Chax Press). He’ll be reading from a book-length poem in progress, Home on the Range. Tim Peterson is an MFA student in poetry at the University of Arizona. His work has appeared in Colorado Review and Rain Taxi, and he recently won honorable mention in the Robert Penn Warren Awards—a contest judged this year by John Ashbery. Frances Shoberg is Events Coordinator for the University of Arizona Poetry Center and is on the Advisory Boards for POG and Kore Press. She will graduate with an MFA from Warren Wilson College (recently noted among the top 20 "reefer schools" in US News and World Report--but alas, the MFA program is low residency) this January. Jonathan Vanballenberghe teaches 6th and 7th grade English at a Tucson charter school, a job from which he draws much material for his work in progress: “The Totem of Busy Bees.” mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:28:15 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Pipeline Dreams Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (apologies for cross-posting... joe brennan) Nowar Collective* =20 Pipeline Dreams one of the factors which led to throwing Ms Benazir Bhutto= =20 out of power =20 The Herald June 1997 =20 The two-years battle between US oil company Unocal and Argentinean firm=20 Bridas to build an oil and gas pipeline from Turkmenistan, across war-torn=20 Afghanistan and through to Pakistan has intensified after the Nawaz Sharif=20 government signed an agreement with Turkmenistan and Unocal at the Economic=20 Co-ordination Organisation (ECO) in Ashkhabad on May 14. Bridas has the clea= r=20 support of the Taliban who have promised to give Bridas permission to build=20 the pipeline, while Unocal appear to have secured Turkmenistan and Pakistan= =E2=80=99s=20 support.=20 Nagging question behind this deal is why Pakistan has sided with one=20 consortium rather than the other. Since 1995, both the Bhutto government and= =20 the military did not commit to one oil company. Pakistan=E2=80=99s earlier p= osition=20 was that it would allow both companies to compete and then co-operate with=20 the one that built the pipeline first. But the reality is that the US State=20 Department is heavily backing Unocal, and Turkmenistan is desperately keen t= o=20 garner US support for its oil and gas exports. Bridas=E2=80=99 problems with= Unocal=20 in Turkmenistan are generally placed at the door of a US desire to monopolis= e=20 Turkmenistan=E2=80=99s energy. So the reason why Pakistan now seems to favou= r one=20 company over the other is that the Sharif government appears to have bent to= =20 US pressure.=20 The protocol signed by Pakistan is deeply flawed. It makes no mention of th= e=20 Afghan warlords through whose territory the pipeline would pass and does not= =20 involve the Taliban in any decision making in the future. The Taliban are=20 expected to react angrily to this development.=20 The Sharif government is banking on the ISI making sure that the Taliban=20 dump Bridas and go long with whatever Pakistan wants, a senior bureaucrat in= =20 Islamabad explains. But that will not be so easy.=20 History of Bridas and Unocal=E2=80=99s competition in the region is age old= . However=20 US interest in laying pipeline through Unocal, was established in April 1995= ,=20 when Turkmenistan President Niyazov signed our government with Unocal (a 12t= h=20 largest oil company in the US) and its partner, the Saudi Arabian owned Delt= a=20 Oil Company to behind a gas pipeline extending from Daulatabad Gas Fields to= =20 Multan. Unocal later signed an even more ambitious agreement for laying an=20 oil pipeline from Chardzhou in Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to an oil=20 terminal on Pakistan=E2=80=99s coast delivering 1 million barrels per day.=20 Bridas also offered to build an oil pipeline but it suffered a setback when= =20 President Niyazov banned Bridas oil exports and shutting down its other=20 operations in December 95. Bridas moved the courts and claimed 15 billion US= =20 dollars in damages.=20 Meanwhile, US pressure on Pakistan increased. During two trips to Pakistan=20 and Afghanistan in April and August 1996, US Assistant Secretary of State=20 Robin Raphael frequently lobbied for the Unocal pipeline, according to=20 Pakistani and Afghan diplomats. In August, Raphael also visited Central Asia= n=20 capitals and Moscow. "We have an American company which is interested in=20 building a pipeline from Turkmenistan through to Pakistan," Raphael said at=20= a=20 press conference in Islamabad on April 21, 1996. "This pipeline project will= =20 be very good for Turkmenistan, for Pakistan and for Afghanistan."=20 Earlier, in March 1996 another senior US diplomat had a major row with=20 Bhutto when he lobbied for Unocal. "He accused Bhutto of =E2=80=98extortion= =E2=80=99 when=20 she defended Bridas, and Bhutto was furious," says a senior Bhutto aide who=20 was present at the meeting. "She demanded a written apology from the diploma= t=20 which she got," says another aide.=20 But in Ashkhabad, the Americans achieved their objective. In October,=20 Niyazov gave Unocal-Delta exclusive rights to build the pipeline.=20 With all the odds stacked heavily against it, Bridas then moved to engage=20 the support of the Taliban. On May 4 in Kabul, Bridas and the Taliban=20 declared that by the end of the month they would sign an agreement to build=20 the pipeline. Pakistan=E2=80=99s agreement endorsement of US oil company Un= ocal=E2=80=99s=20 proposal to build pipelines from Central Asia may bring Islamabad into=20 conflict with the Taliban, who recently cut a deal with a rival company,=20 Bridas. The reader may now understand the US interest in the laying of=20 pipeline and pressures it applied on Benazir Bhutto=E2=80=99s government to=20= grant=20 contractors to a company of its own choosing when she did not succumb to=20 pressures this pipeline turned out to be one of the factors of Benazir=20 Bhutto=E2=80=99s downfall.=20 =20 *From the Nowar mission statement:=20 "The Nowar Collective is committed to a radical analysis of society that=20 emphasizes the structural and institutional reasons for the existence of=20 hierarchy and oppression. In our conception, foreign policy includes every=20 part of the offensive unleashed by the United States and the First World=20 against the rest of the world, whether it is war, IMF restructuring, economi= c=20 sanctions, or Monsanto's patenting of seeds."=20 http://www.nowarcollective.com/MISSION.HTM ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 20:54:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kimball Organization: http://www.fauxpress.com/kimball Subject: from The East Village MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The East Village invites you to join Paolo Javier, who in "Today at Ground Zero," tries his "best not to smile for the camera," but sees "between art & life, there is still Art in Life." The buildings are lofty The buildings are lofty The buildings are momentary -- Karen Weiser Look for Allison Cobb who reports in "9-17-01": "Woke up screams. Woke up saw. Woke up quoting woke up." If you turn to Marcella Durand's "Saturnal Autumnal" you'll find ...the strewn rings of matter, of matter made, rocks and certain debris, speaking of a time cataclysm happened Then there is Tom Brokaw, "a beautiful person," according to Jeni Olin, "By beautiful I mean communicating disease." Mike Topp asks, "Is intuition what I think it is?" Carol Mirakove suggests "vitamin ache kicked texture out for total, ever, to date." Jen Coleman *draws* 'haughty tongued moral....or normal. no more' Free grammar Poking on in on Angels I was saying what can I say I was saying -- Bob Holman "...the world is / shaped like a sentence / a corridor shaped / by influences beyond / a black tumulus..." -- Steve Duffy "the light bangs into the train" -- Alan Davies Speaking of light, in her cover photo Sal Randolph serves up a recipe for corrugated translucence flashing beneath rocky leftovers. Accept no substitute: http://www.theeastvillage.com Contributors to Volume Twelve -- Paolo Javier; Bob Holman; Alan Davies; Bill Freind; Allison Cobb; Aidan Thompson; Alan Bramhall; Vincent Katz; Jeni Olin; Steve Duffy; Carol Mirakove; Marcella Durand; Jen Coleman; Dave Hart; Paul Grady; Amy King; Simon Terthchniy; Christopher Mulrooney; Mike Topp; Sal Randolph; Carrie Etter; Karen Weiser; Susan Landers. Poetic practice is thriving. And the Web continues functioning as an instrument to display, acquire, and devour poetic artifacts, as well as providing us a democratic if imperfect means for comparing them. In the current climate these truisms matter more. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:28:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Christopher W. Alexander" Subject: :: : : : p r o s e a c t s : : : :: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PROSE ACTS AND SCOUT GANG UP IN THE NAME OF CONTEMPORARY RADICAL ART PROSE ACTS brings together importantly fearless poets, writers, and musicians for an incisive four-day affair in Buffalo, New York. It looks like a conference but thinks more like a festival. It acts like a festival but will be like a big brainstorm. Our confirmed participants include Dennis Cooper, Eileen Myles, Dodie Bellamy, Kevin Killian, Robert Gluck, Matthew Stadler, White Collar Crime, Roberto Tejada, Ether Drag, Lawrence Braithwaite, and The National. SCOUT, a live compilation of writers and musicians that began at Threadwaxing Space in Manhattan is doing a ten-day event at Hallwalls in Buffalo. The first week overlaps and joins forces with Prose Acts. Confirmed artists include Michelle Tea, Bruce Benderson, Mary Gaitskill, Ishle Park, and many more. BRANDON STOSUY and CHRISTOPHER W. ALEXANDER conference organizers -- Further information is available at our www site: -- CALENDAR OF EVENTS >>THURSDAY, 18 OCTOBER AFTERNOON: THE POETRY/RARE BOOKS COLLECTION 3:00 PM Prose Acts: Introduction 3:30-5:00 PM Panel Discussion: "Flail the Narrative: Subverting and Reinventing Narrative Expectations." Moderator: Mike Basinski. Participants: Lawrence Braithwaite, Dennis Cooper, Kevin Killian Robert Gluck, Eileen Myles 5:30 PM Robert Gl=FCck and Roberto Tejada EVENING: HALLWALLS 9:00 PM a SCOUT event: Michelle Tea and Akilah Oliver >> FRIDAY, 19 OCTOBER AFTERNOON: BIG ORBIT GALLERY 2:30-4:00 PM Panel Discussion: "Pop the Culture: Punk, Horror, Trash." Moderator: David Schmid. Participants: Dodie Bellamy, Lawrence Braithwaite, Dennis Cooper, Michelle Tea EVENING: HALLWALLS 8:00 PM Dodie Bellamy and Matthew Stadler 10:00 PM Eileen Myles and kari edwards 12:00 AM Krakatoa >>SATURDAY, 20 OCTOBER AFTERNOON: BIG ORBIT GALLERY 12:30-2:00 PM Panel Discussion: "Talking Dirty: Sexual Politics, Pornography, and Desire." Moderator: Caroline Koebel. Participants: Dodie Bellamy, kari edwards, Robert Gluck, Kevin Killian, Eileen Myles, Matthew Stadler EVENING: HALLWALLS 8:00 PM Dennis Cooper and Lawrence Braithwaite 10:00 PM "The Vegetable Kingdom": a play by Kevin Killian and Rex Ray 12:00 AM Ether Drag and The National >>SUNDAY, 21 OCTOBER LATE MORNING: PARTICIPANTS-ONLY BRUNCH AFTERNOON: HALLWALLS 4:00 PM a SCOUT event: Mary Gaitskill and Peter Trachenberg 7:00 PM Kevin Killian and Robert Gluck 9:30 PM Sander Hicks 10:00 PM White Collar Crime =A0 -- THE VENUES BIG ORBIT GALLERY 30 d Essex Street, Buffalo, New York HALLWALLS CONTEMPORARY ARTS CENTER The Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main Street Suite 425, Buffalo, New York THE POETRY/RARE BOOKS COLLECTION 420 Capen Hall Box 602200, The State University of New York at Buffalo [North Campus] Buffalo, New York ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:49:52 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Fw: Masthead extra extra MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ( and again!) David Bircumshaw Leicester, England A Chide's Alphabet www.chidesplay.8m.com Painting Without Numbers www.paintstuff.20m.com/default.htm http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/default.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:30 AM Subject: Masthead extra extra > (Apologies for cross posting) > > Another late arrival at Masthead - A poem by Keston Sutherland, in part a > response to Ron Silliman's email piece "Progressiveness Now" - > > Both up at http://au.geocities.com/masthead_2/us/index.html > > Best > > Alison > > > > Alison Croggon > > Home page > http://users.bigpond.com/acroggon/ > Masthead > http://au.geocities.com/masthead_2/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 17:13:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: **Claudia RANKINE & Linda NORTON, Thurs Oct 11 7:30 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable P O E T R Y C E N T E R 2 0 0 1 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents An evening with poets CLAUDIA RANKINE & LINDA NORTON Thursday October 11 7:30 pm, $7 donation @ The Unitarian Center 1187 Franklin (at Geary) CLAUDIA RANKINE is the author of three books of poetry: Nothing in Nature is Private, The End of the Alphabet, and-new from Grove Press-Plot. Among a growing number of younger Black poets at work in the U.S. with ties to the Anglophone Caribbean, Ms. Rankine in this latest book arrives at a remarkable multipli-voiced feminine vision. The poetry of Plot is often a "thinking in pictures," in image and dialogue, memory, fragment, and story: "Still to speak of loss is like dusting a thought much farther away . . . farther than the moment the atmosphere cries, I am lost though I am here." As Barbara Guest writes, "Plot moves as in a picaresque novel, in which the body schemes and frightens, accompanied by Claudia Rankine's instinct for poetic surprise ." Mary Gordon remarks, "I am awestruck. Quite simply, I have never read anything like Plot. Its stupendous intelligence . . . marks it as a masterpiece." Ms. Rankine teaches at Barnard College and lives in New York City. LINDA NORTON's writing finds its way in the interstices where human lives take place in the contemporary urban milieu. Marked distinctly by three American cities-Boston, New York, Oakland-her poetry and prose works are restlessly interrogating, acutely keen to the singular nuance of people's expressive revelations . . . knowing and wondering, intimate and exposed. Ms. Norton is an acquisitions editor for the University of California Press, and an editor at Five Fingers Review. She has published her poetry, fiction, and non-fiction in Mandorla, Exquisite Corpse, North American Review, and other magazines. Her postcard collages were included in a recent show at the Kitchen in New York, Art for Plot, centered on art inspired by Claudia Rankine's poetry. She lives in Oakland. "April 26, 1992 The boy on the subway with the lavish scar from temple to dimple. The scar tissue isn't really tough yet. Voluptuous cleavage. I can see _into_ him-- the coral-colored flesh beneath his dark skin. The temples--the sanctuary--his face--violated. He winks at me at Flatbush Avenue, where he gets off the train." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D COMING UP: for details http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit October 15 Lawrence Ferlinghetti: Benefit for Poetry Center @ Club Fugazi, call 415-421-4222 for tickets. October 18 Paul Auster: George Oppen Memorial Lecture @ ODC Theater, call 415-863-9834 for tickets. October 25 Bill Berkson & Vincent Katz October 27 Mark Nowak & Allison Hedge Coke November 2 Bernadette Mayer & Jack Collom November 10 Alice Notley November 29 Pierre Joris =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D THE UNITARIAN CENTER is located at 1187 Franklin Street at the corner of Geary on-street parking opens up at 7:00 pm from downtown SF, take the Geary bus to Franklin READINGS that take place at The Poetry Center are free of charge. Except as indicated, a $7 donation is requested for readings off-campus. SFSU students & Poetry Center (with exception of October 15th Benefit Reading featuring Lawrence Ferlinghetti) get in free. All Poetry Center events are videotaped and made available to the public through our American Poetry Archives collection. The first Complete Catalog in over a decade detailing available Archives tapes will be published in late 2001, including videos from 1974 forward, and audiotapes dating from the early years of The Poetry Center , from its founding in 1954 through the early 70s. MEMBERS WILL BE MAILED A FREE COPY OF THE CATALOG ON PUBLICATION. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., as well as by the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:23:24 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: rabu Subject: programmation ver nantes 2001-2002 Comments: cc: fr=?ISO-8859-1?B?6WTp?=ric acquaviva , akenaton , Alain de filippis , laurent cauwet , alexandre saint-onge , patrice allain , anabelle Hubaut , andr=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= chabin , andrea neumann , anne-james chaton , Anne Cauquelin , anne de sterk , Anne Van der Linden , antoine daguin , Basile Ferriot , vincent de pommery , philippe beck , j=?ISO-8859-1?B?6XL0?=me bertin , julien blaine , Blockhaus DY-10 , philippe boisnard , delphine bretesche , brise glace , hopital brut , Carine L=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?=quyer , Carol Robinson , cathy heyden , laurent cauwet , Dominique REPECAUD , c=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?=cile desmarest , charles pennequin , Xavier Charles , Christophe Havard , julien d'abrigeon , marie-laure dagoit , "chlo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= delaume (Travail)" , denis dufour , jacques donguy , "antoine dufeu antoine.dufeu" , julien Fernandez , Florent Robonom , franck laroze , frank smith , st=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?=phanie fuentes , patrice gaborieau , emmanuel gaudin , MIRE Gen=?ISO-8859-1?B?6A==?=ve , g=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?=rard tessier , =?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?=ric giraud , Sophie Gosselin , claire guezengar , G=?ISO-8859-1?B?/A==?=nter Muller , Michel Henritzi , cathy heyden , Improjazz , jacques vannina sivan maestri , jean-michel espitallier , jean-pierre leborgne , Jean Louis Costes , j=?ISO-8859-1?B?6XL0?=me langlais , joachim montessuis , jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?62xsZSBs6Q==?=andre , jos=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= lesueur , Julien Ottavi , nelly kapri=?ISO-8859-1?B?6A==?=lian , Zbigniew Karkowski , katalin molnar , Keith , annette krebs , Kristoff K Roll , Laure Limongi , le monde , marie-laure lecourt , louise livert , patrice luchet , Man , marie-laure dagoit , marie-laure lecourt , Marie Pierre , marie sahn , youna marsauche , Martin Richet , martine altenburger , Nadia Otto , octopus , Olympic , philippe beck , radiojetfm , =?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?=ric sadin , yvan serouge Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ver et le frac des pays de la loire dimanche 14 octobre 2001 16h frac des pays de la loire carquefou / la fleuriaye stacy doris + chet wiener lecture entr=E9e libre / rens 02 28 01 50 00 ver et mire vendredi 26 octobre 2001 20h30 le cin=E9matographe, nantes trait=E9 de bave et d=B9=E9ternit=E9 isidore isou, 1951 film 20f ver et mire jeudi 6 d=E9cembre 2001 20h30 le cin=E9matographe, nantes po=E9sie visuelle anim=E9e et films autour du langage, Jim Rose, Norman Mc Laren, akenaton, julien d'abrigeon films, vid=E9os=20 20f ver et le mus=E9e des beaux-arts de nantes vendredi 11 Janvier 2002 18h mus=E9e des beaux-arts de nantes jean-paul auxem=E9ry / charles reznikoff / charles olson lecture=20 entr=E9e libre =20 ver et le frac des pays de la loire dimanche 27 janvier 2002 16h frac des pays de la loire carquefou / la fleuriaye emmanuel hocquard lecture entr=E9e libre / rens 02 28 01 50 00 ver, la vie est =E0 nous et l'erban po=E9sie et cin=E9ma =20 dimanche 27 janvier 2002 20h30 le cin=E9matographe, nantes films de pierre alferi, jacques-henri michot et emmanuel hocquard 25f =20 lundi 28 janvier 2002 20h30 =E9cole r=E9gionale des beaux-arts de nantes, salle de conf=E9rences, place dulcie-september nantes lectures, table ronde entr=E9e libre =20 ver, le lieu unique et vent d'ouest vendredi 15 mars 2002 19h salon musique, lieu unique, nantes yves di Manno ezra pound / william carlos williams / george oppen lecture entr=E9e libre samedi 16 mars 2002 14h universit=E9 de nantes journ=E9e d'=E9tudes dirig=E9e par yves di manno en collaboration avec le cerci =20 avril-mai (=E0 pr=E9ciser) susan howe ver, le frac des pays de la loire et le mus=E9e des beaux-arts de nantes : po=E9sies ("exp=E9rimentales" barr=E9) etc. vendredi 26 avril 2002, 18h mus=E9e des beaux arts de nantes fr=E9d=E9ric acquaviva + maria faustino + camille cholain, pierre-andr=E9 arcand, philippe boisnard, antoine dufeu, charles pennequin, emmanuel rabu samedi 27 avril 2002, 16h frac des pays de la loire philippe beck, j=E9r=F4me bertin + sylvain courtoux, julien blaine, manuel joseph, jo=EBlle l=E9andre dimanche 28 avril 2002, 16h frac des pays de la loire john giorno, bernard barbet, charles-m=E9zence briseul, anne-james chaton, jean-michel espitallier + kristoff k. roll, christophe manon lectures, performances, concerts propos=E9s par l'association entr=E9e libre / rens 02 28 01 50 00 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:54:23 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: philippe boisnard Subject: annonce de trame ouest =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9dition?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ________________________________ L e s é d it i o n s t r a m e o u e s t 22 rue Pasteur 62000 Arras tel : 0321234080 / 0661372235 / philemoon@wanadoo.fr ________________________________ présentent Travail de Charles-Mézence Briseul, préface de philippe boisnard, (32 pages) , 50 Fr / 7,65 EUR Bienvenue à Clive/Langue de Alain Robinet, préface de philippe boisnard ( 56 pages) , 55 Fr / 8,38 EUR teens pre teens, de Jérôme Bertin, préface de Julien Blaine (28 pages) , 40 Fr / 6,1 EUR La dauphinelle de Jacques Sivan, postfaces de Philippe Boisnard, Jean-Michel Espitallier, Vannina Maestri et Olivier Quintyn (64 pages), 60 Fr / 9,15 EUR (9) Premières maculations de Antoine Dufeu, préface de Charles Pennequin, (80 pages), 60 Fr / 9, 15 EUR Pour toute commande joindre un chèque à l'ordre de "trame où est", en précisant vos coordonnées et le(s) titre(s) que vous commandez. ________________ Vous pourrez aussi vous procurer ces livres et la revue AVIS DE PASSAGE au salon de la revue le week-end du 19-21 octobre, au stand Avis de passage/Le corridor bleu. Le samedi soir (de 17H à 18H) il y aura une lecture des auteurs du Corridor bleu et des éditions Trame ouest. ______________________ Cette diffusion n'est pas un spam, si vous désirez ne plus recevoir l'annonce de nos nouveautés, et des lectures que nous organisons, envoyez-nous un mail. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:26:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bert Smith Subject: FW: Ernie bin Laden Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey everyone, This is just too bizarre. Ernie is showing up side-by-side with Osama bin Laden in posters across Pakistan and Bangladesh... Protestors in Bangladesh (9.OCT) http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011009/wl/imdf09102001085522a.html Protestors in Bangladesh (5.OCT) http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011005/wl/imdf05102001094431a.html Protestors in Pakistan... (10.OCT) http://www.tctubantia.nl/CDA/regioportal/1,2078,1654__772741_,00.html A close-up of the poster, where the image of Ernie is unmistakable... http://www.lindqvist.com/externsajt.php?externalSite=graphics/bert/bertbig.jpg&extNa%20%20%20me=Property+of+Reuter All of these are the same poster, and the photos all seem to be from the Associated Press. It doesn't seem like there's some Photoshop'er doctoring these photos after the fact. Someone involved in making the poster either a) snuck him in as a little inside joke w/ those wacky fundamentalists, or b) Ernie is bin Laden's favorite character. If 'b', then I know the solution: someone needs to go steal the Ernie balloon that shows up at Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade and fly it into Afghanistan as a kind of Trojan Horse. We could have it broadcasting a dialogue between Bert & Ernie that would go something like this: Ernie: Hey, Bert, you've got your troops in the Muslim holy lands. Get them out! Bert: What? I can't hear you. I've got a banana in my ear. Ernie (louder): I said, you're soiling the holy land with the footsteps of infidels!! Bert: What did you say? I can't hear you. I've got a banana in my ear. Ernie: Bert!!! You capitalist heathen! Your free market enterprises are corrupting the planet! Bert: What?!? I'm really sorry, Ernie, I just can't hear you. I've got a banana in my ear... And when Osama and his buddies come stumbling out of their caves we take action against him. Of course, I'd prefer we bring him back to the states and try him under international law, but I know some of you out there would probably just drop a bomb or two on him. Either way, this plan is sure to get some results. In the spirit of all those lovely chain emails, let's start a petition. Put your name and city of origin at the end of the email and forward this on to as many people as you can. Consider the ramifications if you got $10 dollars every time someone downstream from you forwards this email to each of their friends. You'd be a millionaire! And!!!! We'd bring Osama to justice! What a deal! This plan is simple enough that I think even George W could understand it. And I bet he'd get excited about it. Yours truly, Ernie ---------- SIGN BELOW & FORWARD TO YOUR FRIENDS ---------- > >> > 1. Kobe Clinton Davis, Hope, AK > >> > 2. Bob & Bernice Brown, Memphis, TN > >> > 3. Bruce Peffer, Honolulu, HI > >> > 4. Wenceslada Nino, Maui >> > 5. Mitch Rutherford, Atlanta, GA >> > 5. Barbara Singleton, Boston, MA >> > 6. Jason Singleton, Boston, MA >> > 7. Aileen Berry, Worcester, MA >> > 8. David Berry, Worcester, MA >> > 9. Marie Dorsett, New York, NY >> > 10. Becky Louis, Camden, NJ >> > 11. David Louis, Camden, NJ >> > 12. Chris Louis, Camden, NJ >> > 13. Kevin Serpa, Charlotte, NC >> > 14. Jaime Serpa, Charlotte, NC >> > 15. Pat Dorsett, St. Paul, MN >> > 16. Brinda Brumley, Minneapolis, MN >> > 17. Pam Hewlett, Atlanta, GA >> > 18. Josie Campos, Podunk, OR >> > 19. Christina Standke, Hootinanie, AK >> > 20. Kimberly Serpa, Adelaide (Australia) > > 21. Thomas Serpa, Adelaide (Australia) > > 22. Jerry Hudgins, Austin, TX > > 23. Yanetta Hudgins, Pheonix, AZ > > 24. Bessie Hudgins, Pheonix, AZ > > 25. Ellen Jewell, Sedona, AZ > > 26. Carol Haemker, Freakyton, AZ > > 27. Stephen Haamker, Springfield, IL > > 28. Don Alexander, Springfield, OR > > 29. Joanne Alexander, Springfield, OH > > 30. Scott Gallimore, Springfield, TX > > 31. Lisa Gallimore, Springfield, TX > > 32. Bubba J. Loudermouth, Austin, TX > > 33. Judy Work, Stratford, Ontario > > 34. Susan O'Dell, Springfield, Canada > > 35. Randy O'Dell 11years old, Springfield, Iran > > 36. Pam Dodson, Chicago, IL > > 37. Lee Anne King, Chicago, IL > > 38. Kim Carpenter, Gary, IN > > 39. Candi Philpott, Scary, IN > > 40. Cindy Long, Harry, IN > > 41. Brenda Champion, St. Albans, VT > > 42. Bonnie Allen, Springfield, OK > > 43. Jerry Hall, London, England > > 44. Mick Jagger, Los Angeles, California > > 45. Vicki Trinidad, Beaverton, OR >46. Michael Abate, Duckton, OR >47. Paul T. Abate Sr., Racconton, OR >48. Mark A. Abate, Possumville, OR >49. Cynthia Abate, Huge, OR >50. Susan DeLeon, Rosenberg, TX >51. Sammy DeLeon, Rosenberg, TX >>52. Lisa Vitek, Sugarland, TX > > 53. Christopher Vitek, Sugarland, TX >54. Susan Stowell, Saltville, TX >55. Kenneth C. Yoder, Alderaan >56. Carey L. Dunlap, Hobbiton >57. Gail Tondre, Big Bend Nat'l Park >58. Diane Dikes, Willow City, TX >59. Patricia Nowlin, Big Cheese, WI >60. James Nowlin, Springfield, WI >61. Amanda Shelton, Washington D.C. >62. Mary Levingston, Edmonton, Alberta >63. Ernest Levingston, Edmonton, Alberta >> >64. Jim Spencer, Sicily, Alaska >> >65. Nikki Spencer, Sicily, Alaska >> >66. Kimberly Rhoden, Yangtze Kian (China) >> >67. Greg Campbell, Plzkxytrivbn (Czech Republic) >> >68. Woody Peavy, Springfield (Spain) >> >69. Cathy Cloyd, Yoni Lingham (Oral Republic) >> >70. Cathy Salagaj, Colorado Springs, CO >> >71. LaVerne Basey, Milwaukee, WI >> >72. Shirley Basey, Milwaukee, WI >> >73. Mark Shows, Hampton, NJ 74. Bert, Sesame Street _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:37:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: **1001st Night: FERLINGHETTI Benefit for Poetry Center, Monday Oct 15, 7:30 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ** PLEASE JOIN US THIS MONDAY ** October 15, when LAWRENCE FERLINGHETTI will give a rare hometown solo reading to Benefit the Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives, 7:30 pm at historic Fugazi Hall (aka Club Fugazi, 678 Green St.) in North Beach. Tickets are $7-12, with choice VIP seating for $25. Call Club Fugazi box office to reserve tickets: (415) 421-4222. Advance tickets are highly recommended. Call now! ALL AGES SHOW. BRING THE KIDS! SF CHRONICLE 10/8: Lawrence Ferlinghetti says the Oct. 15 benefit for the San Francisco Poetry Center at Club Fugazi has been refigured as Poetry Reading for Peace. Ferlinghetti will read "The Airplane," a long poem he wrote in response to the terrorist attacks. "Beach Blanket Babylon," which lives in the North Beach club, has donated its space for the event. All proceeds go to benefit the Poetry Center (in particular, to support digitization & distribution of rare tapes in the American Poetry Archives, 1954-present.) Mr. Ferlinghetti's reading will be memorialized on the 1001st videotape recorded by the Archives since begining its extensive video collection of poets on tape in 1973. RADIO: TUNE IN Saturday 10/13 LAWRENCE FERLINGHETTI: 10 a.m., West Coast Live, from Caffe Trieste, S.F., KALW-FM (91.7). * * * A solo reading to benefit The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives LAWRENCE FERLINGHETTI Monday October 15 7:30 pm (door opens 6:30), $7-12 donation; $25 limited VIP seats @ Club Fugazi 678 Green Street (aka Beach Blanket Babylon Blvd; between Columbus & Powell, North Beach) =46ugazi Box Office (415) 421-4222 Since the publication in 1956 of A Coney Island of the Mind, one of the most popular American books of poetry of the past half-century, with close to a million copies in print, Mr. Ferlinghetti has published fourteen books with New Directions. His latest, How to Paint Sunlight, is just out. As Joel Oppenheimer wrote in the New York Times Book Review, Ferlinghetti writes poetry ". . . in ways that those who see poetry as the province of the few and educated had never imagined. That strength has turned out to be lasting." Cofounder of the landmark City Lights Bookstore in San Francisco, located on Broadway and Columbus, and publisher of City Lights Books, Lawrence =46erlinghetti served as the first Poet Laureate of San Francisco (1998-1999). Historic Fugazi Hall--since 1974 "Club Fugazi" and the home of the popular musical stage show Beach Blanket Babylon--was historically the site of numerous poetry readings (among other occasions, Allen Ginsberg read his famous poem Howl there). Call the theater for tickets to this Benefit performance: 415-421-4222. CLUB FUGAZI is located at 678 Green Street, in North Beach (aka Beach Blanket Babylon Blvd; between Columbus & Powell) parking in municipal garage on Vallejo near Stockton take the 30 Stockton bus to Columbus & Green COMING UP: for details http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit October 11 Claudia Rankine & Linda Norton, 7:30 Unitarian Center October 15 Lawrence Ferlinghetti: Benefit for Poetry Center @ Club Fugazi, call 415-421-4222 for tickets. October 18 Paul Auster: George Oppen Memorial Lecture @ ODC Theater, call 415-863-9834 for tickets. October 25 Bill Berkson & Vincent Katz October 27 Mark Nowak & Allison Hedge Coke November 2 Bernadette Mayer & Jack Collom November 10 Alice Notley November 29 Pierre Joris All Poetry Center events are videotaped and made available to the public through our American Poetry Archives collection. The first Complete Catalog in over a decade detailing available Archives tapes will be published in January 2002, including videos from 1973 forward, and audiotapes dating from the early years of The Poetry Center , from its founding in 1954 through the early 70s. MEMBERS WILL BE MAILED A FREE COPY OF THE CATALOG ON PUBLICATION. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts- Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., as well as by the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:22:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: e Subject: Jacques Darras- Tues Oct 16 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Jacques Darras will be reading from his work on Tuesday October 16 at 4:30p= m in the UCSD Visual Arts Performing Space-- please join us! Jacques Darras is head of the Faculty of Languages at Universite de Picardi= e (France). In 1996 he created PPACI (Center For Research On Poetry and Poetics In English In An International Context). His volumes of poetry include Van Eyck et les rivi=E8res, dont la Maye. Po=E8me roman. La Maye IV (Le Cri, 1996) and Moi j=B9aime la Belgique! Po=E8me parle marche (Editions Gallimard, 2001). Darras has translated many American writers including Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Alan Watts, William Carlos Williams, David Antin and Malcolm Lowry. He has also produced films or videos on Basil Bunting, Jerom= e Rothenberg, William Butler Yeats, and Allen Ginsberg. Upcoming readings... THURSDAY, October 25 ELIZABETH ALEXANDER WEDNESDAY, October 31 BOB PERELMAN =20 THURSDAY, November 8 WILL ALEXANDER WEDNESDAY, November 14 BILL MOHR / PAUL NAYLOR TUESDAY, November 20 ED FRIEDMAN =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:35:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: The Situation of Women in Afghanistan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'm never sure how much use signing petitions is. But since so much of the discussion on the list lately has been related to terrorism and Afghanistan, I thought it would be relevant to forward this letter and petition relating to state terror against women under the present Taliban government. d.a. Subject: Afghanistan's War upon Women This is an actual petition, and "signatures" will be lost if you drop the line. I know this is too true and so dreadful. Please take 3 minutes out of your life to do your part. The government of Afghanistan, is waging a war upon women. Since the Taliban took power in 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have been beaten and stoned in public for not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having the mesh covering in front of their eyes. One woman was beaten to death by an angry mob of fundamentalists for accidentally exposing her arm(!) . Another was stoned to death for trying to leave the country with a man that was not a relative. Women are not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative; professional women such as professors, translators, doctors, lawyers, artists and writers have been forced from their jobs and restricted to their homes. Homes where a woman is present must have their windows painted so that she can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so that they are never heard. Women live in fear of their lives for the slightest misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those without male relatives or husbands are either starving to death or begging the street, even if they hold Ph.D.s. Depression is becoming so widespread that it has reached emergency levels. There is no way in such an extreme Islamic society to know the suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers are estimating that the suicide rate among women must be extraordinarily high: those who cannot find proper medication and treatment for severe depression and would rather take their lives than live in such conditions. At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their burqua, unwilling to speak, eat, or do anything, but slowly wasting away. Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, perpetually rocking or crying, most of them in fear. When what little medication that is left finally runs out, one doctor is considering leaving these women in front of the president's residence as a form of prot!est. It is at the point where the term "human rights violations" has become an understatement. Husbands have the power of life and death over their women relatives, epecially their wives, but an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of flesh or offending them in the slightest way. Women enjoyed relative freedom: to work, to dress generally as they wanted, and to drive and appear in public alone until only 1996. The rapidity of this transition is the main reason for the depression and suicide; Women who were once educators or doctors or simply used to basic human freedoms are now severely restricted and treated as subhuman in the name of right-wing fundamentalist Islam. It is not their tradition or 'culture,' but it is alien to them, and it is extreme even for those cultures where fundamentalism is the rule. Everyone has a right to a tolerable human existence, even if they are women in a Muslim country. If we can threaten military force in Kosovo the in name of human rights for the sake of ethnic Albanians, citizens of the world can certainly express peaceful outrage at the oppression, murder and injustice committed against women by the Taliban. STATEMENT: In signing this, we agree that the current treatment of women in Afghanistan is completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves action by the United Nations and that the current situation overseas will not be tolerated. Women's Rights is not a small issue anywhere, and it is UNACCEPTABLE for women in 2001 to be treated as subhuman and as so much property. Equality and human decency is a fundamental RIGHT, not a freedom to be granted, whether one lives in Afghanistan or elsewhere. Please scroll to the end of this list to sign your name. Read the brief instruction below the names. 1) Giuliana D. Black, Daly City,CA,USA 2) Mariam Nayiny, Palo Alto,CA,USA 3) Sunaina Gulati-Ruh, Palo Alto,CA,USA 4) Megan McCaslin, Palo Alto,CA,USA 5) Blake Hallanan, San Francisco,CA,USA 6) Kit Henderson, Sacramento,CA,USA 7) Sara Myers, San Francisco,CA,USA > 8) Ellen Tilden, San Fransisco,CA,USA > 9) Vanessa Ross, San Francisco,CA,USA > 10) Jenna Shaw- Battista, San Francisco,CA,USA > 11) Jeanne Racik, Berkeley,CA,USA > 12) Julie Silas, Oakland,CA,USA > 13) Renee Longstreet, Tarzana,CA,USA > 14) Susan Johnson, Encino,CA,USA > 15) Kenneth Johnson, Encino,CA,USA > 16) Terri Treas, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 17) Amy Retzinger, North Hollywood,CA,USA > 18) Babette Crooms, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 19) Olivia Kienzel; Santa Barbara,CA,USA > 20) Sean Dexheimer, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 21) Elio Chavez, Jr., Pasadena,CA,USA > 22) Gregory Kastigar, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 23) Robert Collie, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 24) Jeff Garvin, Brea,CA,USA > 25) Tricia Allen, Sherman Oaks,CA,USA > 26) Joleen Nordstrom, Hollywood,CA,USA > 27) Theresa Donahoe, Martinez,CA,USA > 28) Jennifer Horn, Concord,CA,USA > 29) Roxanne Ryan, Alamo,CA,USA > 30) Miriam Tyler, San Jose,CA,USA > 31) John Burns, San Jose,CA,USA > 32) Kristin Lynn Minick, Fort Worth,TX,USA > 33) Jeff Neal, Marietta,GA,USA > 34) Anna Neal, Marietta, GA,USA > 35) Frances Murley-Fort Worth,TX,USA > 36) David Murley-London,England,UNITED KINGDOM > 37) Jillian Dykhouse, Colleyville,TX,USA > !38) Bonnie Dykhouse,Colleyville,TX,USA > 39) Nancy Williams, Colleyville,TX,USA > 40) Georgene Farr, Sterling Heights,MI,USA > 41) Joanne Arensberg, Riverview,MI,USA > 42) Luann Ouellette, Vermillion,SD,USA > 43) Sandie Sullivan, Vermillion,SD,USA > 44) Troy Nelson, Minneapolis,MN,USA > 45) Joseph Miller, Minnepolis,MN,USA > 46) Kathleen Miller, White Bear Lake,MN,USA > 47) Jerry Marquis, Mpls.,MN,USA > 48) Julie Stokes, Coon Rapids,MN ,USA > 49) Tracy Ford, Blaine,MN,USA > 50) Sheila Lawrence, Monticello,MN,USA > 51) Brenda Kitchen, Westlake Village,CA,USA > 52) Teresa Burke, Sherman Oaks,CA,USA > 53) Bruce Ehrlich, Sherman Oaks,CA,USA 54) Yllania Francis, Los Angeles,CA,USA > 55) Drew Hedin, Los Angeles,CA,USA 56) Laura Paridon, Laguna Woods,CA,USA > 57) Jeanie Hagedorn, Des Moines,IA,USA > 58) Sue Christensen, Des Moines,IA,USA 59) Sybil Finken, Glenwood,IA,USA > 60) Luke Finken, Earth > 61) Doug Gerace, Lincoln,NE,USA > 62) Cheryl Gerace,NE,USA > 63) Sheri Lew,CO,USA > 64) Raven Grace,Boulder,CO,USA > 65) Martha M.Mertz,EL,MI,USA > 66) Colleen R. Cooper,Okemos,MI,USA > 67) Barbara J. Sawyer-Koch, East Lansing,MI,USA 68) Margaret A. Meyers, Okemos,MI,USA > 69) Mary Helen Espes, Okemos,MI,USA 70) Maureen Kirchhoff, Allenspark,CO,USA > 71) Bart Johnson, Err, FRANCE > 72) Sharon O'Connor, Olympia,WA,USA > 73) Nancy Irving, Tbilisi, REPUBLIC OF GEORGIA > 74) Martha Lindley, Seattle,WA,USA > 75) Judith Alexander, Woodinville,WA,USA > 76) Arlene B. Hawkinson, Seattle,WA,USA > 77) Christine E. Mobley, Bothell,WA,USA > 78) Trudie Breen,CA,USA > 79) Catherine Standiford,CA,USA > 80) Beverly Truett,AZ,USA > 81) Christine Meehan,AZ,USA > 82) Janice Gilbert, Valley Center,CA,USA > 83) Dawna Upchurch, Anchorage,AK,USA > 84) Roxanna Groves, Olympia,WA,USA 85) Lynda Lynde, Helena,MT,USA > 86) Constance Gelu, University Place,WA,USA > 87) Jodi Woolett, Tacoma,WA,USA > 88) Lisa I. Reeves- Lynden,WA,USA > 89) Amanda James-Bow,WA,USA > 90) Kelli J. Smith, New Port Richey,FL,USA > 91) Chris Poirier, Largo,FL,USA > 92) Mike Carpenter, Palmetto,FL,USA > 93) Alice Pryor, Melbourne,FL,USA > 94) Ellen Catano, Manchester,NH,USA 95) Bevely Jennings, Cincinnati,OH,USA > 96) Linda Feely, Norwood,OH,USA > 97) Sherry Stidham, Norwood,OH,USA > 98) Brittany Brown, Cincinnati,OH,USA 99) Sandy Brown, Cincinna ti,OH,USA > 100) Tim Brown, Cincinnati,OH,USA 101) Pat Brown, Cincinnati,OH,USA > 102) Amy Cregger, Memphis,TN,USA > 103) Kay Emerick, Logan,OH,USA > 104) Trina Bookman, Logan,OH,USA > 105) Mary Samuelson, St. Louis,MO,USA > 106) Jeannette Ward, Memphis,TN,USA > 107) Elisabeth Davis, Memphis,TN,USA > 108) Rose Klimek, Memphis,TN,USA > 109) Barbara K. White, Hoquiam,WA,USA > 110) Paula J. Eriksen, Palm Harbor,FL,USA > 111) Ragnar Eriksen, Palm Harbor,FL,USA > 112) Marilyn King, CLEARWATER,FL,USA > 113) Barbara Stiner,Oldsmar,FL,USA > 114) Jac'line Weisgerber,Clearwater,FL,USA 115) Charlotte Beadles, Douglasville, GA,USA > 116) Jody Hoadley, Powder Springs,GA,USA > 117) Hope Howard, Atlanta,GA,USA > 118) Cliff Howard, Atlanta,GA USA > 119) Kay Chicoine, Atlanta,GA,USA > 120) Mark Chicoine, Atlanta,GA,USA > 121) Paula King, Lexington,KY,USA > 122) Sally Weissman,Minneapolis,MN,USA > 123) Susan Abbott, New Brighton,MN,USA > 124) Rachel Fine, St. Louis Park,MN,USA > 125) Deb Harley,Eden Prairie, MN,USA > 126) Barb Handahl,Faribault, MN,USA > 127) Ann Olson,Chamberlain,SD,USA > 128) Deb Hunt,Sioux Falls,SD,USA > 129) Anne Frankman, Sioux Falls,SD,USA > 130) Susie Kostel, Tabor,SD,USA > 131) Julie Anderson, Mount Prospect,IL,USA > 132) Janet Tilden, Fremont,NE,USA > 133) Debbie Bowman, Kingston Springs,TN,USA 134) Shari Watkins, Franklin,TN,USA > 135) Teresa Beck, Columbia,TN,USA > 136) Don Hill, Nashville,TN,USA > 137) Suzanne Supplee, Reistertown,MD,USA > 138) Mina Dillard-Gits, Agoura Hills,CA,USA > 139) Negrita Jayde, Venice,CA,USA 139) Gregory Hines, Venice,CA,USA > 140) Laurie Fierstein, New York,NY,USA > 141) Cecelia Casey, New York,NY,USA > 142) Shana Deane, New York,NY,USA > 143) Lynn Neal ,Newark,DE,USA > 144) Rosemary Lane, Bear,DE,USA > 145) Andrea Arena, Newark,DE,USA > 146) Rick Neidig, Wilmington,DE,USA > 147) Lisa Dill, Wilmington, DE, USA > 148) Donna Staring, Newark,DE,USA 149) V.C. Hernande z, Miami,FL, USA > 1 150) G.L. Gonzalez, Miami, FL, USA > 151) K. Casey, Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA > 152) A. Lewis, Dallas, TX, USA > 153) S. Shepard, Chicago, IL, USA > 154) K. Smith, Scottsdale, AZ, USA 155) C. McLeod, Leeds, England > 1 156) R.Blechner, Shaumburg, IL USA > 157) J. Blechner, Lake Geneva, WI USA > 158) H.Ruterschmidt,Ch!icago,IL,USA > 159) M. Ryczek, Park Ridge, IL USA > 160) L. Gotsch-Wenson, Mt. Prospect, IL USA > 161) B. Leon, Chicago, IL USA > 162) C. Domingo, Chicago, IL USA > 163) Fermin R. Domingo III, Round Lake Park, IL USA 164) Rachel Casarrubias, Round Lake Park, IL USA > 165) Cathy Graves, Maryland, USA > 166) Sandra Klein, Maryland, USA > 167) Beverly Rodgers, Florida, USA > 168) Monika Jones-Lyons, Tampa, Florida, USA > 169) Linda Mahy-Muller, Austin, Texas, USA > 170) Mollie Cook, Elgin, Texas, USA > 171) Lynn Van Blarcum, Edina, MN USA > 172) Andy Magnus, Fort Worth, TX, USA > 173) Jack H. Ablon, Lewisville, Texas USA > 174) Randy Myers, Dallas, Texas USA > 175) Mary Ann Golden, Austin, Texas USA > 176) Karen Boatright, Austin, Texas, USE > 177) Ruthie Oliver, Austin, Texas, USA > 178) Miriam Dell'Olio, Galveston Texas, USA > 179) Faith Ballinger, Humble, TX, USA > 180) Sandy Neuman, Dayton, TX USA > 181) Dale Davidson, Houston, TX USA 182) A. Smith, Eldon, MO USA > 183) Beth Blakeney, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada > 184) Tiffany McGovern, Halifax, Nova Scotia > 185) Carol Longue, Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia > 186) Kathy Malpage, Bedford, Nova Scotia 187) Gertie Wood, Lwr Sackville, Nova Scotia > 188) Trina McNamara, Halifax, Nova Scotia > 189) Joanne Parsons, Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia > 190) Susan Postma, kelowna,B.C. Canada > 191) Doris Bonn, Kelowna BC Canada > 192) Brandi Hughes, Kelowna BC Canada > 193) Jennifer Johnson, Marquette, MI, USA > 194) Tammie James, Spokane, WA USA > 195) Jodi Reimund, Spokane, WA USA > 196) San!die Ling, K ent, WA, USA > 197) Kay Mc Comb, Kent, WA, USA > 198) Judith J. Mores, Arlington, WA, USA > 199) Lee Femling, Newcastle, CA, USA > 200) Jean Femling, Costa Mesa, CA, USA > 201) Owen Riss, Colorado Springs, CO > 202) Ann Harjes, Colorado Springs, CO USA > 203) Joe y. toddy, Colorado Springs, CO USA 204) Jim Roies, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 205) John Lehman, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 206) Michelle Lehman, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 207) William Isaac Gilkison, Louisville, CO. USA 208) Jacob W. Whitlow, Westminster, CO. USA 209) Evan R. Crabb, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 210) Lindsay M. Varra, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 211) Dara L. Pacot, Colorado Springs, CO. USA 212) Leslie K. Shalosky, COlorado Springs, CO. USA 213) Patricia A Griffin, Sterling, CO. USA 214) Sara Schmillen, Sterling, CO. USA 215) Chris Schmillen, Security, CO, USA 216) Mary Vollborn Schmillen, Security, CO, USA 217) Betty May, Colorado Springs, CO USA 218) Paula Gibeault, Colorado Springs, CO USA 219) Debra Johnson, Colorado Springs, CO USA 220) Fran De Jarnette, Colorado Springs, CO USA 221) Maxine Stores, Colorado Springs, CO USA 222) Miosheque Moore, Tulsa, OK USA 223) Latasha Nias, New York, NY USA 224) Teresa Thomas, New York, NY USA 225) Elaine Walker, Attleboro, MA USA 226) Mary Cooke, Taunton, MA USA 227) Charlene Molina, Taunton, MA USA 228) Barbara Cooke, Taunton, MA USA 229) Karina Cooke, New York, NY USA 230) Kelly R. McVeigh, New York, NY USA 240) Christina G. Noriega, New York, NY USA 241) Candy Rodo, New York, NY USA 242) Saskia Rombouts, New York, NY USA 243) Katherine Gordon, New York, USA 244) Sara Shankland, ! Vero Beach, FL, USA 245) William Shankland, Vero Beach, FL, USA 246) Kristina Novickis, San Francisco, CA, USA 247) Liudyte Baker, Tucson, CA USA 248) Viki, Andreja, Lija and Liuci Siliunas, Chicago, IL USA 249) Louis Wenzlow, Baraboo WI USA 250) Kelly Dwyer, Baraboo WI USA 251) Victoria Zimmerman, Highland Park, IL 252) Jackie Lantz, Long Grove, IL 253) Catherine Heffernan, Buffalo Grove, IL USA 254) Patrick Heffernan, Buffalo Grove, IL USA 255) Sheila , Howey-in-the-Hills, Fl. USA 256) Kathryne Sutliff, Rhinelander, WI. USA 257)Margaret Johnson, Eagle River, WI USA 258)Nancy Schmidt, Rhinelander, WI USA 259) Robin Bolan, McLean, VA, USA 260) Elizabeth Webb, Pittsford, NY, USA 261) Kristen Frederickson, New York, NY, USA 262) Amy Schlegel, Philadelphia, PA, USA 263) Eleanor Antin, San Diego, California, USA 264) David Antin, San Diego, California, USA 265) David Bromige, Sebastopol, CA, USA DIRECTIONS: 1.. PLEASE COPY this email on to a new message. 2.. Sign the bottom 3.. Forward it to everyone on your distribution lists. If you receive this list with more than 300 names on it, please e-mail a copy of it to: sarabande@brandeis.edu < May God(s) Bless the World (not just America) May God(s) Bless the World (not just America) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:59:19 -0400 Reply-To: dcpoetry@lycos.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dc poetry Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: snail mails needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking for snail mail addresses for the following: Ron Silliman John Tranter Fanny Howe Lyn Hejinian Nicole Brossard Could you backchannel me? Thanks! Allison Cobb, co-editor Pom2, a journal of poetic polylogue Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:09:45 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: OIL/DRUGS/MINERALS/AFGHANISTAN/BUSH/CIA/KLA/BINLADEN - zip files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NEED MORE INFO ON CASPIAN/CAUCASUS OIL AND ITS RELATIONSHIP TO THE US/AFGHANISTAN CONFLICT? Download a zip file full of web analyses on the Afghanistan-Caucasus/Oil & Mining & Pipeline connection: http://www.proximate.org/zip/afghanistan/OIL-CAUCASUS-MINERALS-AFGHANISATAN. zip NEED MORE INFO ON THE SECRET RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE US AND BIN LADEN THAT CONTINUED THROUGH 1999? Download a zip file full of web analyses on the Drugs/Bush-Cheney/CIA/KLA/bin Laden connection: http://www.proximate.org/zip/afghanistan/DRUGS-KLA-OSAMA-CIA-BUSH-CHENEY.zip Both files are zip files full of web pages and folders with the images stored. A few extra maps are in the latter zip file. I found it best to save and zip the files, as many such links are vanishing from the web as we speak. Best, Patrick http://www.proximate.org/zip/afghanistan/ Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:00:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Bart Plantenga Bart Plantenga lives in the land of the free and home of the brave, Amsterdam, and specializes in radio/music/culture (as well as prolific short story publications). BLABBERMOUTHS is an ongoing column devoted to spoken word on disk. For more info, blackroma@chello.fr or http: //webperso.easynet.fr/blkdix/ and/or ninplant@xs4all.nl. BLABBERMOUTHS 1: Out of Mouth Experiences * "TICK" by Black Sifichi & Negative Stencil Noise Museum Records 19 rue Colson, 21000 Dijon, France distributed in USA by Soleilmoon 61 minutes, $17 When he last visited the US in 1997, he saw America as a viral "homogenized police and prison zone with granite skyscrapers, surveillance and roadways that lead from one shopping mall to the next." And people with their identities engraved on their credit cards. "My identity is engraved in my soul." On his debut, Black Sifichi, the compelling Paris-based DJ-poet-performer-photographer, thrusts a series of highly original investigations of common cultural clichs and maladies into our greasy laps. Once inside these parasitic cultural transgressions, he sucks them dry before blowing them apart. Sifichi's mind works on the basic principles of plastic explosives: slap it to the side of an issue or icon and watch it explode - icono-blast. Sifichi corroborates my own suspicions of a serious disconnect between sound, intent, and received message. This deterioration may be due to the ease with which language constructs its "own" versions of realities - language as inaccurate filter between human consciousness and external world. We are all its cuckolds. Sifichi works intuitively - heart as map, pulse as route. Language tributaries pass through his spleen-shaped soul and emerge as a manifesto that addresses the individual's responsibility to use language effectively. This implies turning it against those whom would debase or denature it. All is kinetic, instinctual, pyrotechnical enthusiasm, sinister humor. Tick's sound, by Norsq (the ambient/electronica producer of record in France right now) and Fagus Sylvatica, (ex of the industrial flamenco band, Von Magnet) nurtures the moods created by the texts via jagged, kinetic, reprocessed compositions. Sifichi just showed up with a "lot of cassettes, ideas, home-made demos, atmospheres and frameworks designed to enhance the texts." The result: a taut equilibrium between sound and text. I first met Scotsman and US ex-pat, Sifichi, when I lived in Paris in the late-80s. I was impressed by his kinetic ability to aesthetically rearrange any space or ambience he came into contact with. "When I first got to Paris," Sifichi recalls, "I brought only my cameras, darkroom, some cassettes and a recorder, and clothes in a large sea trunk. Paris was a visual place for me. A postcard dream-come-true. Miller and absinthe. Cafs in disorder. Artists living like artists should. The socialists had just taken political office. I fell in love with ... Roma Napoli, a powerful French conceptual painter. I took pictures all the time. There was a lab just around the corner and I had regular photo work with a few galleries shooting catalogues, installations, etc." Escaping the US, living in London, settling in Paris, moving from photos to poetry performances characterized by their enthusiastic level of disturbance to radio DJ, club DJ, and now he is recording with some of the top names in European music such as Burnt Friedman, Black Dog, Norsq, BXT...But can somebody really communicate how insane the world is through insane works - "LeCirque Boule Quies" - when insanity seems to be the state of things? "'Cirque' is just a controlled manifestation of this state," Sifichi explains. "There's too much to do, too much information, too many visuals, too much compression in commercials, too many websites, too many magazines, mobile phones, and too little original thinking. When someone finally loosens their screws ... somehow it grabs our attention and imagination... It's like they're visiting a place we might know but have only touched upon in very brief moments. We try to stay in control and the system expects this. Even our close friends don't want you to lose your 'bearings'. An escape to an unknown and dangerous world. Blade Runner really. The post indust-cop-and-robot filled future. But this kind of controlled-insanity also isn't good for the soul. The poor Clown in "Cirque" is trapped in his circus. He's old. Probably done little else in life. Repeats his act.... Television is a circus. A lot of radio is another media circus. The music biz, the fashion market ... so many people don't seem to be able to escape the terror of the worlds they once wished to be ushered into." On "Tuff" - "he kills those he hates, kisses the woman he saves / it's real simple he's a cop, a super cop / one-man army ..." - Sifichi fixes his shit-detector on the mediated macho ideal of the hardened and hardboiled, offering a topdown stylistic deconstruction of the cop/mercenary and the public's admiration of these sublingual cyborgs. Where does the sumptuous pugnaciousness in "Tuff" come from? "'Tuff' is just me taking shorthand while watching Rambo." Sifichi explains, "I simply kept track of all the violence, its order, and how it was done. Key scenes! 'Tuff' is a dark relaxed mirror of the film itself. In some ways the film's violence, its everydayness, shocked me. This police crap, this image of power and order that is so prevalent in the USA is disturbing. Cops into Scientology!" "Come To Where The Flavour Is" is a beautiful barbed shaft that conflates the homoerotic with the homophobic and ransacks the perpetual illusion of mediated macho - "then smoke me, ride me, hide me, rope me, dope me to Marlboro Country ... tell me I'm a cowboy ..." A homosexual come-on corrodes its way into a dtournement of deathwish macho. "Come" was reclaimed from "more movies, more advertising. Brainwashing. Cancer in full frontal public view. It's a Western capitalist version of Russian iconization. How big's Marlboro Country? Is it recognized by the United Nations? Is his cock as big as his horse's? Do the Village People smoke Marlboro? All the KKK stuff around the pack is sickening. I really wanted to attack the brand. Like the French attack McDonalds today." There's also a customized retake of Gil Scott Heron's "The Revolution Will (Not) Be Televised." We all know it's their media and that if there is some deflationary appropriational tactic to be applied then the revolution WILL be broadcast and it WILL pull in ratings and it WILL mean absolutely nothing. Rigid Us-Them demarcations have gone fluid without vessel, identities wrapped around opportunity - a vivid perception shift since the 60s - appropriation effectively supplanting censorship as oppressive tool. Sifichi message: don't bother with television, let's find our own informational (tele)paths divorced from TV's built-in compromises. There's also the blisteringly imagistic "Beat Trax," where Sifichi savages the passive deification / commodification of the Beats and encourages people to stake out their own adventures rather than idolize those who've "mad lived" for us. "I don't believe most people are living an adventure today. Instead they've fallen into idolization of others from the past - the Beats, Rimbaud ... Oscar Wilde. They should be respected ... But they shouldn't be treated like the equivalent of the church. Make yourself the sacred cow. Take risks. Detach yourself from the material world." Bart Pantenga ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:27:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" Subject: Re: Pipeline -- Background info.... Comments: To: JBCM2@aol.com Comments: cc: BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And the other recent pretext: http://www.endgame.org/oilwars-balkans.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:23:44 -0700 Reply-To: tbrady@msgidirect.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Email change MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List-friends, List-Associates, and otherwise: Attendant on my being laid off from my current job, I'll be losing this email address effective at 1pm Pacific time today. After that time, please direct all correspondence to my still-functioning home account, cartograffiti@mindspring.com. (I hope this works as a late answer to Aaron Vidaver's question a few days ago. I'll be back soon, but lately I've been pretty consumed hustling up contract work to keep myself in food and rent). My best to all, Taylor Brady ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 08:01:46 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont agree but I'll agree to disagree. I think that whatever is going on in the world that we think is "evil" we have to be careful. I'm not a cultural "relativist" but nor am I any kind of "absolutist". In India atrocious things are perpetrated upon women: women get bashed up and raped all over the world even killed by men in the West. If we feel that there is an injustice, we - not the United nations as it is now - because it is really an American front - but a new United Nations centred elswhere than Europe or the US - which must include ALL nations , and others: that then we study these situations (of inter- national injustice, poverty etc) and initiate action with due respect to the culture of the people in the countries in which we feel that "human rights" (whatever they are ) need to be discussed and defined eg I dont think that democracy (as the etc define it) either works or is always what other nations want: ie there IS no real democracy anywhere and in some countries a military regime is better,maybe for the time being ..I see the US to be at the moment effectively a military regime. The problems of the world, the inequalities etc, need to be adressed and debt needs to be wiped out and the ideals of nations listened to that we disagree with (if we do): I think that most of those people will then see that we are prepared to respect their traditions cultures and ways, and they in their turn will be more likely to be les skeptical of our so-called "progress" ..maybe we can persuade them that the West are more advanced but as Kruschev said to Kennedy when pushed on the qusetion of voting etc "At least we dont burn down churches full of black people." Which silenced Kennedy...which is not to say that Russia was "more advanced" han the US but Kruschev was pointing to possible arrogance by the West. From memory (and "to be fair" as I say) (by the way I think that Krushchev was one of the less dour of the Russsians and had a lot of time for the US...but then he got the axe...) But the issue of the 11th of Sept is rather separate..or it needs to be considered carefully as somewhat a separate issue: eg its not clear to me that the Taleban or Bin Laden had anything to do with the attack - to what extent they or anyone else may have been "justified" in that attack: whether the US or the Israelis or some other "shadowy group were involved and so on. It would be more productive for the US and the West overall to adress social and political inequalities throughout the world and in their own countries and I include NZ and Australia and every one else as well as where we feel there is some "terrible violation of human rights"...that is, "let he who is without sin caste the first stone". We have to persuade and be prepared to be rebutted: "Look, this is the way WE do things: go away and fix the unemployment and suicide and homeless problems and low wages and the lack of Unionist's rights and corruption with blue movies and prostitution and pop stars behaving in disgusting and obscene ways (on obscenely high wages)and industrial accidents and corruptions in your so-called democracy and your racialism against various "foreign" religions or black people and even jews: and are your women so wonderful? Hollywood gives us a terrible impresssion of degeneracy and violence and sex and the humiliation of women asnd their own SELF humiliation and usage of men in your own Western countries. Our women that we marry are more faithful and kind and less devious, they are virgins and good: they look after the children and keep the family together, they are loyal, these are our ways: many women agree with these ways of ours, some dont, let us agree to diagree here and treat each other as being thus different. Then we can discuss things." There is no parallel here by the way with the regimes you mentioned: the Pol Pot regime was probably created (I know in a rather elliptical way) by the US paranoia, racialism and anti communisim which lead to the Vietnam War and the atrocities of that perpetrated by your glorious "democracy" with bombs dropped as toys ( cynically for children to pick up)....I dont know anthing much about Pol Pot but I dont believe that the Khmer Rouge per se...put it this way the East Germans were very involved in Vietnam...but I dont want to go into that.... The parallel for Hitler is the burning down of the Reichstag and then blaming the communists as well as dressing Poles in German uniforms and killing them: but dont forget that to dislodge a regime such as Hitler's it was neccessary for British and American commandoes to become "terrorists": that citizens were by and large spared when it was avoidable but not if it was thought to be expedient in quickening Hitler's down fall....but these regimes are not quite relevant to the Taleban. The US and Britain must stop this illegal and fascist war: then things can be discussed and maybe issues adresssed. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duration Press" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 5:16 PM Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" > yes, it is the talibans business...was also hitlers business, stalins > business, pol pots business, maos business...or, perhaps, the us's > business...that you can write from new zealand, complaining about us foreign > policy does little to support the relativism with which you wish to view the > taliban...i guess if the women of afghanistan chose to join you in the fight > against "us capitalism" then they would be worth caring for...until then, > richard, perhaps the next time you feel like lashing out against that same > "us capitalism," you should remember the fact that your e-mail service is > provided by microsoft...i'm sure bill gates (capitalism's poster boy) > appreciates your support (even more so if you use his dial-up > access)...quite the participant you are in the whole game...perhaps also you > should check to see where the components for your computer come from...id > hate for you to be financially supporting any other us corporation... > > > this from amnesty international: > > http://www.web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/index/ASA110051997 > > tho if their propaganda is too facist for you, i dont know what to say... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "richard.tylr" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:01 PM > Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" > > > > I dont believe it. Any way its their way: their business. Not the arrogant > > West's: interference by the US in other state's affairs may part of the > > cause of this attack. I dont care what the Taleban do. Richard. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:44:13 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: geraldine mckenzie Subject: Re: totally tasteless jokes Maybe this is More "balanced" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>It's hard even for me to do cultural relativism on this one. These are the >schmucks who have decreed that women are not to receive medical treatment >and sometimes stone women to death for being insufficiently covered by >body sacks. I certainly think our administration's current actions are, to >use the Buddhist jargon, not "skillful means." > >Just thoughts. Gwyn I agree with this, Gwyn, but I think the Taliban government and the society it's created are not a "culture" but a regime. Cultural relativism should only be applied to a culture that is generally accepted by those who live in it. Certainly, this isn't the case in Afghanistan. The fact that so many punitive measures are enacted against Afghan women demonstrates that the values of the Taliban are not values shared by significant sections of the population - I don't think we should exempt Afghan men en masse from this either. After all, the Taliban does not rule by consent - at times it almost seems that its most vociferous supporters don't actually live under the regime. How can we not care about this? But then, what? And what about all the other oppressive regimes that are not currently featuring on the news? I feel useless. Writing poetry seems wrong, impossible - and yet - Someone recently asked what people were doing, well I've signed on to help out with the local branch of the Socialist Alliance and that's little enough, I'm feeling guilty the way I used to back in the '70's, at the same time thinking - who gives a shit about your phony guilt - it'll pass - and it will. Sorry for the self-indulgence. To return to what matters: I recently saw a documentary about the last 20 years in Afghanistan and one of the most powerful images was the face of a girl, about 12, I think. Both she and her brother had had their feet blown off by mines, sufficiently horrible for anyone, you'd think - but the boy retained some air of optimism (maybe that's too strong a word) while his sister seemed utterly - blank? despairing? - as the commentator pointed out, she would never marry, she can't receive an education, can't work, has no prospects but to be a burden. I think sometimes we're guilty of a sort of cultural arrogance that thinks no one can have a valuable life without those 'things' we value - education, work, health etc - but, in this case I'm sure that the girl concerned felt her life was ruined. I don't know what else to add. Geraldine _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 10:23:04 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand: this is a terrible dilemma. But I acn be "proud" of being of British descent but not proud or even troubled by Edward the 1st who persecuted the Jews and slaughtered others nor proud of my "great" heritage yet, yes, also proud without being arrogant: critical without hating myselkf or even eg Blair etal or Thatcher (very different I know). Proud in a way of being a New Zealander but unhappy with many of its policies (especiallyundre seg Muloon and others who slavishly follwoed US poicy and was a cynical "gnome" in the World bank: a bit worried by certain "capitalist poets" who masquerade in this poetry as innovators. Proud of Alan Curnow, and so on...of course NZ is not yet "in the firing line" and I know its easy to be criical from the sidelines: its good that debate is happenning and we are not blindly eg "for" Israel or "for" Palestine. We are thinking about these things: how to resolve it..I would say in this case that the it wasnt the US alone that got Israel into the mess: Israel's history and Palestine's fate and maybe some inequities perpetrated by them and others...being in the hands of certain "forces' and also the British, French and lateer the US but also some of the more (zealous? aggressive? vicious? pioneering? visionary? foolhardy?) Zionists....and so on. Un doubtedly also antio-semitism, which is vile, was/is a factor: and some of the extreme right wing Israelis are not helping. A mess: what to do. Certainly not more war.Less (or no?) terrorism, more negotiation. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Greenberg" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Israel > I don't want to take the list further off course, but > I am completely wracked over this issue these days. > My family is very Zionist: we lived in Israel for a > number of years and, in fact, my grandfather lived > there as a child when it was Palestine and his mother > helped found the first modern Hebrew-speaking > kindergarden. > Anyway, I myself have a lot of problems with Israel, > not only in its relationship to the Palestinians but > also in its patriarchy, its internal racism, etc. And > agree with Maria that it is an experiment which may > have been done with some good intentions but also with > great carelessness and cruelty and very badly. In > fact, I'd say it's a test case for colonialism gone > awry. But now what? There are millions of Jews who > live there and feel like there is really no other > place for them to go, and this is largely because > there isn't. Many Israelis were kicked out or fled > from countries were they were being persecuted or > killed: the Soviet Union, Yemen, Germany, Lebanon, > Ethiopia, etc. This is no excuse for anything, it's > just a more complicating factor. The Jewish history > is that of the nomad, the refugee, the diaspora. Is > this the only way the world can function, with Jews in > that role? > > My two biggest questions: the UN -- the international > community, including the US -- got Israel into this > mess: what is the global community's role in getting > them out of it? > > And also: I think so much of the heat around this > issue stems from cultural identity: Jews like to think > of ourselves as the persecuted, not the persecutors. > Admiting what Israelis are doing to Palestinians, and > have been doing, and the bloody and unjust foundation > of the establishment of the nation would require a > completely new understanding of the Jewish self. > > And I already struggle with my own ethnic self-hatred, > so I have a field day here. And I read Celan, and > Kafka. > > Sorry to digress. > > Arielle > > > --- Maria Damon wrote: > > i for one would be happy to airlift all Jews --and > > anyone else who'd like > > to come along --in Israel to the united states and > > *then* allow the US to > > "abandon Israel." but i don't think they'd all want > > to come. Israel was > > an experiment that does not seem to have worked, but > > before abandoning it > > there must be some situation whereby Jews can live > > in safety. > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. > http://phone.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 05:40:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Walter K. Lew" Subject: Plenty of collateral. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Father of Neutron Bomb Outlines Plan to "do in" Taliban and bin Laden Sam Cohen, the scientist who invented the neutron bomb, outlined a plan for the Bush administration and Congress to use a small neutron bomb "to do in" the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. Cohen argues that the use of the neutron bomb against the Taliban and bin Laden would go right to the core of the terrorist threat and satisfy American "impatience." Cohen stated in an interview with NewsMax.com, "My offhand guess is that the majority of Americans couldn't care less how we 'do in' the Taliban and bin Laden and company, provided we get it done and [quickly]." While Cohen agrees that the global terrorist threat is going to go on for years, he has told policy-makers that the "name of the game right now is Afghanistan [and] bin Laden." He also stated that the US needs a quick highly visible strike to begin that war. Because the Taliban and terrorist camps are "going to be on the move" and will be burrowing and burying themselves while continuing training exercises, Cohen argues the US needs a carefully targeted weapon that would impose "mass destruction," while providing an element of surprise. Cohen is proposing to reconfigure Minuteman missiles by diffusing the thermonuclear component and keeping the "trigger" at the kiloton level. The "kiloton fission" would be a deadly force with a radius of about two-thirds of a mile "towards killing people who are exposed." According to Cohen, this "ought to cover the area of a training camp." (source: Newsmax.com, 24 September 2001) -- Walter K. Lew 11811 Venice Blvd. #138 Los Angeles, CA 90066 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 05:41:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Walter K. Lew" Subject: Nasty habit. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Pentagon Deliberates Use of Tactical Nuclear Weapons in Retaliation The US Department of Defense (DoD) recommended to President George W. Bush the use of tactical nuclear weapons as a military option in retaliation to the 11 September terrorist attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Centers. In an interview on ABC television's "This Week" Sunday Program, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld refused to rule out the use of tactical nuclear weapons in retaliation. US diplomatic sources said that the Pentagon recommended the use of tactical nuclear weapons after learning of the unprecedented number of US civilian casualties. According to military analysts, Pentagon officials are deliberating the use of tactical nuclear weapons because of their ability to reach and destroy terrorists hiding in an underground bunker while "limiting" damage to surrounding areas. The US conducted an air raid on Libya in 1986 attempting to kill Col. Moammar Gadhafi. In 1998, the US fired a cruise missile in Afghanistan attempting to kill Osama bin Laden. Since these attempts failed, the DoD is recommending the use of tactical nuclear weapons because they would cause greater destruction than conventional air raids and cruise missiles. (source: Japan Times; 20 September 2001) -- Walter K. Lew 11811 Venice Blvd. #138 Los Angeles, CA 90066 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 10:30:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Lewis Subject: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Hassen, This is a link to an national organization that has spearheaded benefit readings across the country and internationally. Readings Many local Buffalo based poets are currently involved in this effort. Poets For Peace is an organization of people that are also involved in the Dialogue Among Civilizations project. Dialogue Through Poetry . Looking forward, Karen Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 11:13:24 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: ny times: Power of Poetry to Console MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is the power of the human voice which is what we forget: people know more poems than we think: poetry shows a common link between us. These are powerful and gentle and gritty and beautiful poems you are quoting. Such compassion and intelligence will be needed where people are directly hit by this: that is something I keep forgetting myself. The "human face" of it. I'd hate it to lead on to crazy patriotism: but its a good "counter poise" to the rather abstract or "detached" analysis (neccessary somewhat) and maybe to the rather "strident" and rather pitiless pronouncements we hear:and which I have also made...maybe sometimes one has to abstract. But here's a poem I wrote about N.Y. (one of the few I've written in this "direct style") but I was there in 1993 and I was thinking of the homeless I had seen (I wrote it rahter quickly i my hotel: my nerves werent good then for writing poems) - they (the homeless) are here too but not so many as the population s much less: and I read together with a more "abstract" poem at the Nuyorican. Actually I got a strong reaction: i thought there would be indifference but there was a quite "compassionate" reception. A sigh at the end...I expected inddifference or "ho hum"....I also read it on the radio here. In a way I dont like it as a poem: it probably needs "working on" (but I'm too lazy to work on poems - I'm no Alan Curnow I'm afraid!!) and I dont like writing this kind of thing per se but even though its a bit self-consciously "histrionic" - I say a bit - my feelings were quite genuine (can feelings not be?). I must add that I'm not sure I believe in God but I use that personge here... New York, The World Savage city - were I God -I would rip Those clouds above you, and in a blinding White, would let the healer down the sky Reaching fire engine's ladder. He would Clamber down with his Cross of Love, His seeds, his complexity machine, and his golden dimes. The wasted, the alone, would cry out at his chimes. But they are too many... and even God gets lost in the homeless maze, and desire, Hungry as a desert dog, warms his hands At the fire bright sight of a woman.* Too much shit "goes down" (as Bruce said) in this crazed, frenetic cave. God counts and recounts the people. But they are perpetual in their motion. So he starts again. And again. A man leans against a wall, head down with a cardboard sign: "HIV Positive, Please Help." But New York Roars like hell: and the tall Hasidics whirl by,The whites whirl by, the blacks whirl by - The world whirls by. Some stop, and pay. I pause. Most see him like a dead fire hydrant Or a lumpo of iron, and they whirl on and on and into their human sea: but I'm no better: Before this thing on 7th Avenue, I'm as dumb as stone. What shall we do? R. Taylor. Aug. 1993 N.Y. The Portland Hotel, 47th Street, Manhatten. *No idea why I wrote that?! That year the bomb had gone off in the North Trade tower but I completely forgot that when I went up the South. Despite my critique of US Capitalism etc I was greatly inpressed by N.Y. (and the people I met there) and of course my feelings go to anyone who has lost those they know or love in N.Y. I'll criticise America etc but I'll never hate it: in fact the greatness of what is great about the US is not in question for me: I would fight for "freedom" (there or anywhere) if I felt certain that some "evil" power was about to attack the US (or other country: say NZ). While I may "understand" reasons for terrorism - I am watching warily: there is a point when the ends DO NOT justify the means. At the moment things are not so clear......but the above poem was not on that subject. Look: one doesnt criticise something one thinks has some great worth or potential. Some thoughts. I also read that poem on radio here in Auckland. Cheers all, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Belz" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 5:09 PM Subject: ny times: Power of Poetry to Console > The New York Times: Monday October 01 > > The Eerily Intimate Power of Poetry to Console > By DINITIA SMITH > > In the weeks since the terrorist attacks, people have been consoling > themselves with poetry in an almost unprecedented way. > > Bits of famous poems, original poems, snatches of verse pinned alongside > photos of the victims. In the weeks since the terrorist attacks, people have > been consoling themselves and one another with poetry in an almost > unprecedented way. Almost immediately after the event, improvised memorials > often conceived around poems sprang up all over the city, in store windows, > at bus stops, in Washington Square Park, Brooklyn Heights and elsewhere. And > poems flew through cyberspace across the country in e-mails from friend to > friend. > > On the day of the disaster, someone sent a copy of Shelley's "Ozymandias" to > a circle of friends and suggested that if the World Trade Center were ever > to be rebuilt, it should bear a plaque with the inscription "My name is > Ozymandias, king of kings:/ Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" > > Copies of Auden's "September 1, 1939," written after Germany invaded Poland, > were everywhere. "The unmentionable odour of death," Auden wrote, "Offends > the September night." > > At Union Square Park, which had one of the biggest memorials, an > American-Indian poem was pinned on the wire fence: "In the dawn I gathered > cedar-boughs/ Sweet, sweet was their odor/ They were wet with tears/ The > sweetness will not leave my hands." Another mourner put up lines from Yeats: > "All the words that I utter,/ And all the words that I write,/ Must spread > out their wings untiring,/ And never rest in their flight,/ Till they come > where your sad, sad heart is." > > Three days after the attack, at a memorial service for the victims at the > 92nd Street Y, David Yezzi, director of the Unterberg Poetry Center, read > lines by the Israeli poet Yehuda Amichai: "This is the end of the landscape. > Among blocks/ of concrete and rusting iron/ there's a fig tree with heavy > fruit/ but even kids don't come around to pick it." > > The poet laureate of the United States, Billy Collins, said that since Sept. > 11 he had been inundated with poems from friends poems by Yeats, by the > Chilean poet Pablo Neruda, by the Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska all > writers, he noted, from countries that have known war. "We, as innocents, as > Americans, have never been invaded," Mr. Collins said. "We haven't produced > a poetry that has much authority in this area." > > "With all of the neglect of poetry and the hand wringing about how other > media have bulldozed poets," Mr. Collins said, "in times of crisis it's > interesting that people don't turn to the novel or say, `We should all go > out to a movie,' or, `Ballet would help us.' It's always poetry. What we > want to hear is a human voice speaking directly in our ear." > > Mr. Collins compared the status of the poet in contemporary life to that of > the goalie in hockey. "The goalie in hockey stands apart from others, > marginalized," he said. "When all the skating and sliding around on the ice > begins to fail us, the goalie is the poet." > > For 10 years Mr. Collins has been running a poetry program at the Katonah > Public Library in Westchester County. On the Sunday after the disaster, > Stephen Dunn, the poet, was the featured speaker. "We had well over 100 > people," Mr. Collins said. "Normally 40 or 30 would be a respectable > audience." > > Mr. Dunn began by reading one of his poems called "To a Terrorist": "For the > historical ache, the ache passed down/ which finds its circumstances and > becomes/ the present ache, I offer this poem/ without hope, knowing there's > nothing,/ not even revenge, which alleviates/ a life like yours. . . ." > > But after that initial poem, Mr. Dunn announced that from then on he was > going to read only love poems: "I am astounded/ by the various kisses we're > capable of," he read, from his poem "Each From Different Heights." > > And reading love poems aloud in the midst of sorrow seemed just the right > thing to do, Mr. Collins said. "I felt after the reading that he had > provided a small counterweight to put on the other side of the dreadfully > lopsided scale," he said. "It was a tiny weight in the other direction, the > beginning of moving back to equilibrium." > > The poet Robert Pinsky, who is a former poet laureate of the United States, > said he had also been showered with poems from friends, as well as by > requests from various publications for poems in keeping with the general > mood of mourning. On "The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer" right after the tragedy, > Mr. Pinsky, who is a regular presence on the program, read Marianne Moore's > "What Are Years?," a poem that has been passed frequently from person to > person through e-mail in recent weeks. "What is our innocence,/ what is our > guilt? All are/ naked, none is safe." > > "Poetry has an intimacy because it is in the reader's voice, in one person's > breath," Mr. Pinsky said, echoing Mr. Collins. "We are in a culture of > spectacle. With poetry, you say it aloud yourself, in your own voice." > > In ancient societies and even today in oral cultures, poetry has had a > public function, as the repository of stories, genealogies, moral ideas and > collective emotion. But in recent history, "the job of the poet has become > more and more marginalized," said Bob Holman, a poet who has been involved > in the spoken word movement, an effort to take poetry down from its > pedestal. The poet has become "the player of words," he said, engaging > mostly in high-level language games. > > But changes are occurring, said Mr. Holman, ever hopeful, "as our culture > listens to language artistically and poetry becomes more democratized and > participatory." > > He quoted from a poem by William Carlos Williams: "It is difficult/ to get > the news from poems/ yet men die miserably every day/ for lack/ of what is > found there." > > "I think we are fulfilling William Carlos Williams's poem," Mr. Holman said. > "We are finding the news in poetry." > > > [from > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nyt/20011001/en/the_eerily_intimate_power_of_ > poetry_to_console_1.html] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 01:14:46 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Out Of Operation Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In sobbing warfare Of contracting diaphragm As walking teeth talking Conquers mother nature Stoic milk out of apathy Pressing adaptive thought Out of operation All viewpoints just In of as & out So something more To do to come Instead just running As always toward Dukkha wandering I think so I am Wondering what the hell Is it I'm getting I'm not wanting Reuven BenYuhmib ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 16:15:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: devineni@RATTAPALLAX.COM Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?WTC=20Readings=3A=20Lou=20Reed=2C=20Sharon=20Olds=2C=20Rick=20Moody=2C=20Claire?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=20Danes=2C=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Words to Comfort: Benefit Readings to Support the WTC Relief Fund Oct. 17, 2001 (Wednesday) Musician Lou Reed, Film-maker Ric Burns, actress Claire Danes, poets Shar= on Olds and Cornelius Eady, novelist Rick Moody, Oscar Hijuelos and Richard Price, and 60 other readers join NYC Firefighter Anthony Castagna, NYPD Sergeant Edgar Rodriguez, Salomon Smith Barney employees and NYC grade-sc= hool children for a reading at the New School, NYC. Some special readings include: 1. Reading of Walt Whitman's poems by film-maker Ric Burns, whose film Ne= w York: A Documentary History recently aired on PBS, and work written and presented by New York City. 2. Frank Lombardi, Chief Engineer of the Port Authority. 3. Giandomenico Picco, Personal Representative of the Secretary-General of the United Nations for the 2001 Year Dialogue Among Civilizations. Mr.= Picco helped negotiate the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan and helped bring an end to the bloody Iran-Iraq war and had several harrowing encoun= ters with Middle Eastern terrorists. Many of the poems being read will be selected from the enormous public ou= tpouring of poetry posted at New York City fire stations, Union Square, and numero= us other memorial sites around the city. The reading will take place at the New School, Tischman Auditorium, 66 We= st 12th St., from 7:00 p.m. to 10:00 pm. Also that night in San Francisco: San Francisco Poet Laureate Janice Miri= kitani and award-winning poets Kim Addonizio, Chana Bloch, and Ruth Daigon. San Francisco Main Library, 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, starting at= 6:00 p.m. The World Trade Center Relief Fund was established by New York Governor George Pataki to assist the families and dependents of the victims of the= September 11th terrorist attacks. All of the proceeds collected at both readings will be donated to the fund. $15 suggested donation. Checks only= made out the NY State World Trade Center Relief Fund. Thanks, Ram Devineni Publisher Rattapallax http://www.dialoguepoetry.org http://www.rattapallax.com NYC Readers: ALHAJI PAPA SUSSO BOB HOLMAN SHARON OLDS NYFD ANTHONY CASTAGNA EDWIN TORRES GIANDOMENICO PICCO CORNELIUS EADY JESSICA HAGEDORN DAVID LEHMAN RIC BURNS 3-7 kids NYPD Sgt. EDGAR RODRIGUEZ SEKOU SUNDIATA SAPPHIRE RICK MOODY LOU REED OSCAR HIJUELOS FRANK LOMBARDI LAWRENCE JOSEPH RICHARD PRICE STACEYANN CHIN CLAIRE DANES CAZWELL EMANUEL XAVIER SIRI HUSTVEDT 4 kids D. NURSKE RACHEL HADAS HATTIE GOSSETT BOB MACK ANNETTE DIAZ TERRY GELBER GUILLERMO DIAZ DANA BRYANT ROGER BONAIR-AGARD JOANNE AKALAITIS UNIVERSES CHARLIE SMITH PRAGEETA SHARMA ROBERT POLITO MIKE LADD MUMS DA SCHEMER WILLIE PERDOMO SUHEIR HAMMAD DAVID HENDERSON ALIX OLSON ELIZABETH MACKLIN BILL KUSHNER MICHAEL T. YOUNG NICOLE HEFNER MATTHEW TRIGIANI MARK HALL KAVEH L. AFRASIABI VITTORIA REPETTO DANIEL PALEY ELLISON LATASHA NATASHA DIGGS JOHN RODRIGUEZ MARY ELLEN MUZIO JACKIE SHEELER TRAVIS MONTEZ ANDREW McCARTHY REGIE CABICO MARIPOSA JOHN DEL PESCHIO BONAFIDE ANSELM BERRIGAN GINA BONATI CARLO BALDI CHRISTIN APTOWICZ KAZIM ALI NANCY AGABIAN PEGGY ZULEIKA LYNCH VERONICA GOLOS MADELEINE BECKMAN RAM DEVINENI SAMUEL MENASHE ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 18:50:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...Hazaras..... collateral damage...collective guilt...www.hazara.net...8,000 hazaras murdered in just one atrocity by the Taliban....DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 21:52:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: [webartery] True and Normal[mirror.bmp] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = True and Normal[mirror.bmp] u/;OT mirror 0u0u " WMFC */We're here. We're ready to begin. It's almost time for the Cell./* EMF Cell[BoxData[ RowBox[{ RowBox[{"gg", "=", RowBox[{"Map", "[", RowBox[{ Courier New WMFC EMF Cell[BoxData[ RowBox[{ RowBox[{"g", " ", "=", " ", RowBox[{"Import", "[", "\"\\"", "]"}]}], ";"}]], "Input"]2, #PA~MShowCellLabel #HA~EFalse FB#GA~DRule ~UShowSpecialCharacters #HA~EFalse FB#GA~DRule #SA~PAllowInlineCells #HA~EFalse FB#GA~DRule #NA~KHyphenation #HA~EFalse */It's almost time for the Cell. It's within the Cell. Azure and I in the mirror. You can see us in the mirror. I'm holding the camera. Our bodies are exposed. We're depressed. We're falling down the eastern seacoast of the United States. We're on the road. We're falling./* FB#GA~ #RA~OAutoItalicWords F@#GA~DList FB#GA~DRule #SA~PStyleMen Courier New Math1Mono Import Math2Mono ????????????????????? Courier New RowBox[{ RowBox[{"(", RowBox[{ RowBox[{"(", RowBox[{ RowBox[{".3", RowBox[{"#", "[", RowBox[{"[", "1", "]"}], "]"}]}], "+", RowBox[{".50", RowBox[{"#", "[", RowBox[{"[", "2", "]"}], "]"}]}], "+", RowBox[{".11", RowBox[{"#", "[", RowBox[{"[", "3", "]"}], "]"}]}]}], ")"}], "/", "255"}], ")"}], "&"}], ",", " ", RowBox[{"N", "[", RowBox[{"g", "[", RowBox[{"[", RowBox[{"1", ",", "1"}], "]"}], "]"}], "]"}], ",", RowBox[{"{", "2", "}"}]}], "]"}]}], ";"}]], "Input"] WMFC Courier New ???????? Math1Mono ????? Math2Mono Courier New 0u0u WMFC */I'm partially erect. We're in an unknown motel room. Her labia are prominent. Our nipples are hard. Our faces are angry, depressed. We're going to fuck or we're going to kill./* */There's the first transformation. Our bodies swell and glisten. Our bodies seem wet. The breasts and penis protrude. You could almost enter us. We could almost enter you. We're surrounded by blasted objects. The wall has been cut loose. You can't tell about the explosion. You can't tell if it's a trick. Everything in the foreground is peeled away. Everything in the foreground goes to hard-core black and white./* EMF Cell[BoxData[ RowBox[{ RowBox[{"gFunction", "=", RowBox[{"ListInterpolation", "[", RowBox[{"Transpose", "[", "gg", "]"}], "]"}]}], ";"}]], "Input"]F7C Courier New gFunction Math1Mono ????????????????????? ListInterpolation Math2Mono Transpose Courier New 0u0u " WMFC */Now there's the second transformation. Our skin begins to disappear. We're part of everything else in the world. Did we do this to everything. Did everything return. My face blasts apart. There is no ceiling. This is the epiphany of incandescent desire. We're in and out of the Cell./* EMF Cell[BoxData[ RowBox[{ RowBox[{"Plot3D", "[", RowBox[{ RowBox[{"gFunction", "[", RowBox[{"x", ",", "y"}], "]"}], ",", RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"x", ",", "1", ",", "540"}], "}"}], ",", RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"y", ",", "1", ",", "380"}], "}"}], ",", RowBox[{"PlotPoints", "\[Rule]", "100"}], ",", RowBox[{"Lighting", "\[Rule]", "False"}], ",", " ", RowBox[{"ViewPoint", "->", RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"0", ",", " ", ".136", ",", " ", "1.233"}], "}"}]}], ",", RowBox[{"Mesh", "\[Rule]", "True"}]}], "]"}], ";"}]], "Input"] RowBox[{"gFunction", "[", Box[{"x", ",", "y"}], "]"}], ",", RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"x", ",", "1", ",", "540"}], "}"}], ",", */We're coming to an end. We're this mirror of you. We're this mirror of all of you. We're in the ruins. We're jammed with you in us. We're jammed in you. The Cell is falling. We're in and out of the Cell./* RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"y", ",", "1", ",", "380" @, " WMFC Courier New Plot3D Math2Mono ?????????????? gFunction Courier New PlotPoints Math1Mono Lighting False ViewPoint .136 1.233 Mesh True 0u0u Normal == ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:19:01 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Maude Barlow on war, WTO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >http://www.globeandmail.com/headdex > >Globe and Mail, >COMMENT/ FOCUS > >The charge of the trade brigade > >By MAUDE BARLOW Wednesday, October 10, 2001 – Page A21 > >The West's anticipated military war against terrorism has begun. >President George Bush has assembled a powerful coalition of First >World countries united in their staunch defence of freedom and >security. This coalition is aided by a number of obviously reluctant >Third World countries who have divided loyalties and mixed feelings >about helping the United States. But what most people don't know >is that there is a parallel economic coalition being assembled that >mirrors the political loyalties and ambiguities of the war. > >The World Trade Organization is still, unbelievably, planning to >meet in the Middle East nation of Qatar in a month's time. There, >hundreds of high level trade officials and politicians will attempt to >resurrect the talks that collapsed in Seattle two years ago. Dear to >the heart of the United States and the European Union is the desire >to launch a new "round" of trade negotiations, one that would last >for several years and advance the global free-trade agenda in a >whole host of areas. > >The United States wants this new agreement, now more than ever. >And it is counting on the strong global support for its war on >terrorism to revive its failed trade agenda. Robert Zoellick, U.S. >Trade Representative, equates support for free trade with the fight >against terrorism. Declaring that free trade "promotes the values at >the heart of this protracted struggle," he has launched a drive to >persuade Congress to grant the President "fast-track" authority. > >He says that in signing such legislation, the United States would >be signalling to the world that it does not plan to retreat from its >global responsibilities, including the defence of free trade against >terrorist threats and opponents of globalization. > >Until the terrible events of Sept. 11 and the war now being fought, it >appeared there would be no chance at all of a new round. The >differences between the wealthy countries of the North and the poor >countries of the South were too great. The U.S., Canada and the >EU have proposed an ambitious agenda that includes a number of >new items, including investment, services and competition. > >More than 70 poorer countries are absolutely opposed to the >introduction of new items; they say that their economies have been >hard hit by the trade agreements already signed and are >demanding that issues such as access to Northern markets and >the power imbalance between North and South be addressed >before the launch of any new agenda. > >This assertion of the Third World was one of three reasons that the >talks in Seattle broke down. The other two were massive public >opposition to the WTO and a deep dispute between Europe and the >U.S. over agriculture and food safety. Now, in the "new normal," >much has changed. Qatar is off limits to all but a tiny group of >NGOs, and in the wake of the assault on the United States, the >global protest movement, which prefers a political solution to a >military one, is examining its role in the post-Sept. 11 world. > >The United States has found itself indebted to its strongest ally, >British Prime Minister Tony Blair, and the two plan a united front in >Qatar. The EU and the U.S. had already buried the hatchet and >agreed not to let any disagreements between them scuttle new >talks. > >Interestingly, when the WTO published its planned agenda for >Qatar last week, agriculture was glaringly absent. So that leaves >only the dispute between the North and the South. > >The Bush administration is now putting great pressure on Third >World countries such as India to come on board the bandwagon; it >sweetens its demands with debt-relief packages and trade offers >such as the $8-billion (U.S.) emergency package for Argentina (it >came hours before that country endorsed a new round) -- or the >decision to ease economic sanctions imposed against Pakistan for >pursuing its nuclear-weapons program in 1998. > >It is very difficult to predict where all this will lead. But it's certain >that there is much soul-searching going on among Third World >countries as they try to decide if disagreeing with the United States >over trade is the same as being on the "other side" in the global >war on terrorism. > >The linking of the war on terrorism with the successful launch of an >ambitious new trade round should give us pause for thought. Every >year in our world, more people fall into poverty and more people die >from dirty water and the lack of affordable drugs. > >On Sept. 11, more than 35,000 children died of starvation around >the world. Many of these casualties are the result of the policies of >the World Bank and the WTO which favour corporate interests over >social justice and promote a world of winners and losers. > >Do we really think that more of the same economic medicine will >make the world a better, or a safer, place? Or is it time to use the >meeting in Qatar to address the issues of global poverty and >environmental degradation? That would make this a coalition >worthy of its task. > >Maude Barlow is the national chairperson of the Council of >Canadians and a director with the International Forum on >Globalization. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:47:08 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Scott=20Hamilton?= Subject: Re: Left fundamentalism In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20011008231543.00b19dd0@mail.wayne.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree completely with Barrett. A similar misuse of language involves labelling the Taleban's politics 'fascism'. This term, which arises from a large, disputatious and politically-engaged literature, should not be thrown willy-nilly at any reactionary political doctrine or practice. If people want to use it, they should first find out what it means. Cheers Scott ===== For "a ruthless criticism of every existing idea": THR@LL, NZ's class struggle anarchist paper http://www.freespeech.org/thrall/ THIRD EYE, a Kiwi lib left project, at http://www.geocities.com/the_third_eye_website/ and 'REVOLUTION' magazine, a Frankfurt-Christchurch production, http://cantua.canterbury.ac.nz/%7Ejho32/ ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:40:41 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Chomsky quote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chomsky is making sense here. I may be naive but I buy into this approach. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Prejsnar" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 3:43 AM Subject: Chomsky quote > > > >When a Federal Building was blown up in Oklahoma City, there were > >immediate cries to bomb the Middle East. These terminated when it was > >discovered that the perpetrator was from the US ultra-right militia > >movement. The reaction was not to destroy Montana and Idaho, where > the > >movements are based, but to seek and capture the perpetrator, bring > him > >to trial, and -- crucially -- explore the grievances that lie behind > >such crimes and to address the problems. Just about every crime -- > >whether a robbery in the streets or colossal atrocities -- has > reasons, > >and commonly we find that some of them are serious and should be > >addressed. Matters are no different in this case -- at least, for > those > >who are concerned to reduce the threat of terrorist violence rather > than > >to escalate it. > > > .... >Bin Laden may or may not be directly implicated in these acts, > but it is > >likely that the network in which he was a prime figure is -- that is, > >the network established by the US and its allies for their own > purposes > >and supported as long as it served those purposes. It is much easier > to > >personalize the enemy, identified as the symbol of ultimate evil, > than > >to seek to understand what lies behind major atrocities. And there > are, > >naturally, very strong temptations to ignore one's own role -- which > in > >this case, is not difficult to unearth, and indeed is familiar to > >everyone who has any familiarity with the region and its recent > history. > > > > > > Noam Chomsky > via Z Magazine > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 21:10:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_20B5_01C1542B.6D3E2240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_20B5_01C1542B.6D3E2240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hassen, I'm not sure how receptive the mainstream media is right now to any but the most patriotic poetry. I just had the attached article rejected by ASAP. Obviously it might have been because it was not 'crisp' enough, but on the other hand it may have been hesitancy to print anything that was not obviously establishment. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "hassen" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: involvement/action > hi friends. not long ago someone mentioned that some of the > comments/thoughts on this list have found themselves in broadcast media, > which made me question what kind of action folks on this list have been > taking (outside of poetics) re political issues. whether anti- semi- or pro- > war, civil liberties, etc, how active is the poetics community in our > democratic process? letters/calls to officials, contact w/media corp.s, > demonstrations, or other contributions? volunteerism? bumper stickers? i'd > also like to hear opinions re its possible effectiveness. . . > > > thanks, > hassen ------=_NextPart_000_20B5_01C1542B.6D3E2240 Content-Type: text/plain; name="PMart.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="PMart.txt" Poetic Language and Actions in Crisis =93Literary images serve more than merely as a means of expressing ideas or of translating the pleasures of sensory=20 experience coherently into language but possess certain immediate powers of their own (Bachelard, 1990, p. 11).=94 =20 Psychological research has begun developing empirical insights into = how poetic language operates. As early as the time of Homer poetry was = seen as having a special role in traumatic times, tragedy, war, and = health and illness. Now empirical research is starting to untangle some = strands of language and develop some insights into how and why they = work. This paper will describe some of the parameters of what is known = and apply them to poetic actions that might help during this period of = crisis and turmoil.=20 Even though we poets may be loathe to admit it, poetry is nothing = more than a style of writing, but this style is a mode of thought and = enaction and as such is a complex and resplendent being which includes = poetic imagery, poetic language, and poetic enaction - the action of = writing poetry. =20 Poetry communicates metaphorically. It was banished for this from = Plato=91s Republic. Maybe it should be allowed back in now as it is = time=20 for revision of the metaphors that may have led us to this juncture. =20 One metaphoric route is through directions opened up by George=20 Lakoff and Mark Johnson (Lakoff, 1991; Lakoff & Johnson, 1980). =20 Gibbs (Gibbs, 1994) has done some work on poetic metaphor. Other=20 metaphoric routes have been taken in recent social (Simon &=20 Klandermans, 2001) and cross-cultural (Hermans & Kempen, 1998)=20 psychology. This is too complex an area for adequate coverage. The=20 focus will be on recent research that bears on poetic language and how=20 this bears on poetic actions (the actual writing of poetry) or poetics. = =20 Poetics is a large field that includes the poetic process itself = (e.g.,=20 Padgett, 2000), poetics or thinking about how you do it (e.g.=20 Bernstein, 1999), and philosophical approaches (e.g., Bachelard,=20 1990) and here I want to focus on the narrow aspect of poetics=20 concerned with enactment. There are at least three strands in recent=20 research which can be distinguished although they are intertwined. =20 These strands are language=92s as Working Memory (WM), its role in=20 health and trauma resolution, and its role in speaking poetically=20 in interpersonal and internet communication. =20 Working Memory Even though to many, poets are scribblers hiding in garrets, poetry = is a social activity. Writing something down is an activity that takes=20 place in a space or an =93object=94 between writer and reader, one that = can function sequentially or interchangeably as working memory, a=20 mirror, transitional object (Winnicott, 1971), diary for disclosure or=20 secrets, =91words on paper,=91 etc. While these are terms from diverse=20 areas of knowledge, the analogy is plausible. WM is a limited capacity system (Pennington, 1994), not to be=20 confused with short-term memory which has some executive functions for tasks like attention and controlled processing. Among other things. = Klein & Boals (2001) found that =93expressive writing reduces intrusive=20 and avoidant thinking about a stressful event, thus freeing WM=20 resources.=94 for other tasks. Health and Trauma Resolution =20 We are starting to gain insight into how thoughts and feelings are=20 written in this space and how specifically this writing affects health, = the=20 immune system, and many other areas of functioning. Klein & Boals=20 (2001), Pennebaker (1997) and Smyth (1998) are some recent=20 overviews of the complexities of current research on this aspect of=20 writing.=20 There is an ever-growing body of research on therapeutic writing = loosely based on Pennebaker=92s (Pennebaker, 1997) disclosure paradigm = along with the developing Linguistic Inquiry and Word Count methodology = (Pennebaker, J. W., Francis, M. E., & Booth, R. C., 2001; Pennebaker & = King, 1999). =20 It is important that this disclosure writing be =92emotional=92 with = cognitive processing (either by the discloser or a therapeutic = listener).=20 This disclosure should ideally occur in a safe place with provisions=20 for appropriate resolution of the material (Pennebaker, 1997). =20 Speaking Poetically=20 Poetic speech is often linked with musicality or making pleasant. = While the poetry I often read and write is often discordant, the = psychoaesthetics (Franklin, 2001) of positive emotions, pleasantness, = humor, and euphony, when analyzed in their specifics, do have = connections to coping (Folkman & Moskowitz, 2000), health (Salovey, = Detweiler, Steward, & RothmanTaylor, 2000; Kemeny, Bower, Gruenewald, & = Reed, 2000), and the immune system (Miller & Cohen, 2001). Although = research reviews (Martin, 2001; Miller & Cohen, 2001) do tend to show = only modest evidence for support for simple pleasant - health ideas, = conceptually informed and methodologically sound research shows promise = of yielding specific results. In addition more rigorously = conceptualized research programs are promising, like Vaillant=92s = adaptive mental mechanisms (Vaillant, 2000) and the broaden-and-build = model of positive emotions (Fredrickson, 2001) in which positive leads = to positive in many areas, including the interpersonal and political. =20 Internet Lab in Action - Enactment in Real Time. An internet mailing listserv and exchanges of emails on it = following the tragedy (what to actually call the September 11, 2001 = =91event=92 and its sequellae is one important question facing the = nation and international media. This question as language and image was = actually discussed on this particular list) provides some insights into = poetic language, poetic imagery, and poets=92 expression of their = feelings in real time. This particular list does have some = distinguishing characteristics due to it=92s history and the = international, =92experimental=92 character of it=92s subscribers, but = this capability of definition makes it a laboratory for psychological = investigation as well as an historical document of response by poets, = mailing lists, the college-educated public, etc., to the =92event=92.=20 After the =91event=92 there was a period of silence and then some = emails enquiring about the well-being of friends. Then a poet posted a = message simply describing the particulars of his feelings and = observations. Even though in plain language this was a =93poem=94 that = seemed to loosen the floodgates as it was followed by several others = even though there were list members unable to write anything for awhile. = Thee is a discussion of a transitional object or symbol of the event = and how this transitional object is and will affect future thought and = actions. In this instance WM is being analyzed as it poetically enacts = history. =20 Dear Poetix People, On another list there's been a discussion about why = poets are expected to soothe, honor, grieve, whatever, be turned to in = the time of need and expected to produce a something out of this while = folks in other mediums are not. (I'm not sure this is true!) And that = it's a bit insulting when we're and our medium is usually, generally not = all that respected. What do you think?=0A= =0A= Elizabeth Treadwell (9/27/01) ------=_NextPart_000_20B5_01C1542B.6D3E2240-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:29:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios.kozaitis@VERIZON.NET Subject: Why W. speaks highly of Islam? Comments: To: imitationpoetics@topica.com, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable W.'S UNRELIABLE ADVISER ON ISLAM. Blind Faith by Franklin Foer Post date 10.11.01 | Issue date 10.22.01 Cleveland-Marshall College of Law Professor David Forte might seem an=20 unorthodox choice for the role of presidential adviser on Islam. For one=20 thing, he's not Muslim. For another, he doesn't speak Arabic. His academic= =20 specialty is U.S. constitutional law, and he readily admits that he=20 "dabble[s]" in Islamic jurisprudence. "That's why I call myself a student=20 and not an expert," he told me. But thanks to the aggressive promotion of his work by two influential=20 conservative think tanks, the Hudson Institute and the Heritage Foundation,= =20 Forte's writings on Islam have found their way onto the reading lists of=20 Defense Undersecretary Douglas Feith and the National Security Council's=20 Elliot Abrams. UN Ambassador John Negroponte has requested his oeuvre;=20 State Department officials have quizzed him on his views. And when=20 President Bush addressed Congress last month, he seemed to pluck whole=20 phrases from Forte's writings. Or, as one official told The Washington=20 Post: The president's speech was "Forte-ed." In particular Bush has embraced Forte's argument that Al Qaeda are=20 theological heretics. They practice, Forte contends, an esoteric strain of= =20 Islam that traces to a seventh-century sect. "[The terrorists] are not=20 religious," Forte told the Post. "They are a new form of fascist tyranny."= =20 But Forte is a less than reliable source. The problem isn't just his weak=20 background in modern Islamic politics; it's his ulterior ideological=20 motive. Forte doesn't just want to redeem Islam from its critics. As a=20 Catholic conservative who serves on a Vatican task force on strengthening=20 family, he wants to redeem religious orthodoxy itself--or, at least,=20 cleanse it of the extremist stain. "Nothing this evil could be religious,"= =20 he is fond of saying. It's a bromide that jibes perfectly with Bush's own=20 unabashed fondness for religiosity of all stripes. Unfortunately, it may be= =20 wrong. Until last month Forte's primary claim to fame was his writing on Catholic= =20 legal theory. Along with a growing band of conservative=20 scholars--Princeton's Robert P. George, Tulsa University's Russell=20 Hitinger--Forte promoted Thomas Aquinas's theology of natural law. America,= =20 they argue, was founded by men who agreed with Aquinas on the primacy of=20 transcendent divine law. But secular politicians have junked up the=20 founders' system, adding gratuitous and wicked laws. "Faith is an outlaw in= =20 the public square," Forte lectured in 1996 at the Heritage Foundation. In=20 the Cleveland State Law Review in 1990, he compared government regulation=20 to the Pharisees, the rabbis who challenged Jesus. And when the laws of God= =20 conflict with the laws of man, there's no question which side Forte takes.= =20 He has proposed a doctrine called "justified non-compliance," which allows= =20 citizens to "refuse to abide by" laws they consider onerous or morally=20 reprehensible. Forte's interest in Islam began in law school with a B+ paper in a=20 comparative jurisprudence class at Columbia, which he later published. As=20 an academic and fellow at the Heritage Foundation, he continued to write=20 the occasional law review essay--on such subjects as the standing of=20 Islamic law in American courts, the Orientalist Joseph Schacht, and=20 attitudes toward theft in sharia (the body of Islamic laws). Only in the=20 1990s did his interest move beyond the theoretical. After assisting a pro=20 bono immigration case on behalf of Pakistani asylum seekers, he began to=20 write passionately about Islamic persecution of Christians. Forte quickly found himself part of a growing movement, as former Reagan=20 aides Michael Horowitz and Gary Bauer helped turn Christian persecution=20 into one of the religious right's signature issues. But they soon faced a=20 problem: Islamic regimes reacted to the criticism by calling the=20 conservatives anti-Muslim bigots. It was Forte, according to Horowitz, who= =20 figured out how to beat the rap. Henceforth the conservative activists=20 would cast themselves as Islamophiles, praising the religion at every turn= =20 and dismissing the Islamic persecutors as traitors to their faith. As Forte= =20 explained in his 1999 book on Islamic law, "Though radicals often create an= =20 effigy of the West as a 'devil,' their real animus is against traditional=20 Islam." It hasn't always been clear to which Muslim "radicals" Forte is referring .= =20 In the past his chief targets have been regimes like those of Pakistan and= =20 Sudan that oppress non-Muslims domestically. More recently, as Osama bin=20 Laden has taken center stage, Forte has adapted the argument to apply to=20 him. But the basic point--as articulated in a series of law review=20 articles, op-eds, and congressional testimony--remains the same: The=20 Islamic militants aren't true Muslims at all; they find their "inspiration"= =20 in a seventh-century sect of puritan thugs called the Kharijites. "[They]=20 held that any Muslim who commits a sin was an apostate, an unbeliever who=20 could never re-enter the fold of Islam and must be killed." For over 50=20 years, as Forte describes it, the Kharijites ferociously opposed both the=20 developing Sunni and Shia traditions of Islam--going so far as to=20 assassinate Ali, one of the competitors for Mohammed's mantle. The historical analogy is deeply comforting. Today's extremists, in Forte's= =20 telling, are theologically marginal and far removed from the rest of Islam.= =20 They represent, as he put it in a column posted on the Heritage=20 Foundation's website after the attacks, "[a] tradition that Islam early on= =20 rejected as opposed to the universal message of its Prophet." And those who= =20 say otherwise simply don't get religion. "We have a highly secularized=20 elite in media and government and the academy. When they talk about=20 religion it is often in a superficial and deprecating manner. When they=20 talk about Southern Baptists, they talk about gay bashing. When they talk=20 about Islam, they talk about jihad. They patronizingly assume that violence= =20 is an essential part of Islam." But serious scholars of Islam dispute Forte's interpretation. When I sent=20 his writings to Marius Deeb, a professor of modern Arab political thought=20 at Johns Hopkins University's Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced=20 International Studies, he told me, "This guy doesn't know what he's talking= =20 about." When I approached Frank Vogel, Harvard's Islamic law specialist, he= =20 said, "Forte produces some useful synthetic essays." Then, after reading=20 Forte's analysis of bin Laden, he was less generous: "His argument is a=20 gross simplification." None of the other top Islam scholars I polled were=20 willing to take their swipes on the record. But off the record they weren't= =20 any more charitable. A sampling of the derisive comments: "He's not very=20 well informed" and "I'm afraid it's rubbish." Indeed, it turns out there are significant problems with Forte's analysis.= =20 Consider the role of the Kharijites, whom Forte says serve as Al Qaeda's=20 inspiration. In fact, bin Laden and his Egyptian theorist Ayman Zawahiri=20 rarely, if ever, invoke the Kharijites. (Among contemporary Islamic=20 extremists only the Algerian Groupe Islamique Arm=E9 have held up the=20 Kharijites as a model.) Al Qaeda's manifestos more frequently filch from=20 the teachings of the thirteenth-century puritanical jurist Ibn Taymiyyah,=20 who, as it happens, despised Kharijism. Forte also ignores the influence of Wahhabism, one of modern Islam's=20 central movements. Emerging in eighteenth-century Arabia, Wahhabism called= =20 for a new asceticism, violently opposing decorations in Mosques and=20 celebrations of the prophet's birthday. And it has at times sanctioned=20 violence against "infidels," both outside the religion and within. For=20 decades the Saudi royal family has aggressively promoted Wahhabism by,=20 among other things, financing Wahhabi religious schools throughout the=20 Muslim world. Bin Laden was born Wahhabi, and the Taliban--who graduated=20 from some of those Saudi-funded Wahhabi schools--have undergone a period of= =20 what Olivier Roy, an Islamologist at the Centre National de la Recherche=20 Scientifique, calls "Wahhabisation." (Witness their destruction of the=20 Bamiyan Buddha, in keeping with Wahhabi prohibitions against graven=20 images.) You can even see traces of the sect's influence in hijacker=20 Mohammed Atta's will, which requests Wahhabi burial rites. But you wouldn't= =20 pick up any of this from Forte, who never mentions Wahhabism in his=20 analyses. As Deeb told me, "He misses the real story." Perhaps that's because, unlike the Kharijites, Wahhabis aren't marginal.=20 Within the United States, according to Hisham al-Kabbani, head of the=20 Washington-based Islamic Supreme Counsel, almost 80 percent of mosques are= =20 presided over by Wahhabi Imams. The vast majority of them, of course, don't= =20 support bin Laden. But understanding Al Qaeda's Wahhabi roots exposes the=20 simplicity of Forte's distinctions between good and bad, or real and fake,= =20 fundamentalist Islam. But Forte isn't the only one with a deep desire to acquit religious=20 orthodoxy of any bad deeds. The president wants to as well, which is why he= =20 has parroted Forte's arguments. Liberals, who often assume that=20 evangelicals disdain other religions, have been surprised at Bush's=20 Islamophilia since September 11. At nearly every turn the president utters= =20 homilies like "Islam is peace." He brags about his copy of the Koran, a=20 gift from the Imam Muzammil H. Siddiqi. Speaking off the cuff at the=20 Washington Islamic Center on September 17, he even posed as a Koranic=20 exegete: "The English translation is not as eloquent as the original=20 Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran itself..." But this isn't surprising at all. Ecumenicism is a hallmark of Bush's brand= =20 of evangelicalism and of his political program. His faith-based initiative= =20 called for a popular religious front--"churches and mosques and synagogues= =20 ... that warm the cold to life"--against social decay. During the campaign,= =20 W.'s speeches trumpeted "the transforming power of faith," laying bare one= =20 of his first principles: Believers, no matter their denomination, are=20 better people than nonbelievers. That's what Forte believes as well. But it= =20 is an article of faith--not the basis for a serious and honest exploration= =20 of a religious tradition that Americans desperately need to better=20 understand. Of course nobody wants Bush to declare war on Islam, or on the= =20 tens of millions who practice it and have no sympathy for Al Qaeda. But if= =20 the United States is to win a war on terrorism it needs to understand the=20 enemy--which means acknowledging the extent to which religion influences=20 terrorists and their supporters. The Hudson Institute's Michael Horowitz, Forte's biggest booster, describes= =20 his significance this way: "A lot of people make the statement that being a= =20 believer makes you a better man. Most people don't believe it. But Forte=20 helps you say it with conviction." But saying it with conviction doesn't=20 make it any more true. FRANKLIN FOER is an associate editor at The New Republic. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:07:13 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Anthology Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit forgive the HYPERBOLEEEEE but it is appropriate for this is an announcement of Volume One of the FIRST MAJOR (American) anthology of visual and related poetries in some 30 years. $24 postpaid from Bob Grumman 1708 Hayworth Road Port Charlotte FL 33952 also available through Small Press Distribution WRITING TO BE SEEN edited by Bob Grumman and Crag Hill ISBN 0-87924-083-0 Contributors: Carol Stetser, Scott Helmes, Bill Keith, Joel Lipman, Guy R. Beining, Marilyn R. Rosenberg, David Cole, Kathy Ernst, Karl Young, Harry Polkinhorn, William L. Fox and Karl Kempton, each of whom has twenty pages of works and an introductory Artist's Statement that is in some cases ten pages in length 500 copies published for The Runaway Spoon Press and Score Publications by Light & Dust; 328 11 by 8.5 inch pages; glossy color cover. A must for any serious student of visual poetry & a probable collectible. Volume Two is under way. Contributors to that will be John Vieira, Miekal And, Liz Was, Michael Basinski, Crag Hill, Bob Grumman, John M. Bennett, Paul Zelevansky, Irving Weiss, Richard Kostelanetz and Jonathan Brannen. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:25:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: CONTENTVILLE shuts down MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remember a while back there was a big hubbub about the site Contentville.com (www.contentville.com) because they were selling all kinds of texts from doctorial dissertations to Harry Potter and going so far as to let the reader preview the 1st chapter. Well I went back today and noticed that they were making no money and suspended services. if you wait by the river long enough, you will see the dead bodies of your enemies floating by. Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:00:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 2 = True and Normal[mirror.bmp] u/;OT mirror 0u0u " WMFC */We're here. We're ready to begin. It's almost time for the Cell./* EMF Cell[BoxData[ RowBox[{ RowBox[{"gg", "=", RowBox[{"Map", "[", RowBox[{ Courier New WMFC EMF Cell[BoxData[ RowBox[{ RowBox[{"g", " ", "=", " ", RowBox[{"Import", "[", "\"\\"", "]"}]}], ";"}]], "Input"]2, #PA~MShowCellLabel #HA~EFalse FB#GA~DRule ~UShowSpecialCharacters #HA~EFalse FB#GA~DRule #SA~PAllowInlineCells #HA~EFalse FB#GA~DRule #NA~KHyphenation #HA~EFalse */It's almost time for the Cell. It's within the Cell. Azure and I in the mirror. You can see us in the mirror. I'm holding the camera. Our bodies are exposed. We're depressed. We're falling down the eastern seacoast of the United States. We're on the road. We're falling./* FB#GA~ #RA~OAutoItalicWords F@#GA~DList FB#GA~DRule #SA~PStyleMen Courier New Math1Mono Import Math2Mono ????????????????????? Courier New RowBox[{ RowBox[{"(", RowBox[{ RowBox[{"(", RowBox[{ RowBox[{".3", RowBox[{"#", "[", RowBox[{"[", "1", "]"}], "]"}]}], "+", RowBox[{".50", RowBox[{"#", "[", RowBox[{"[", "2", "]"}], "]"}]}], "+", RowBox[{".11", RowBox[{"#", "[", RowBox[{"[", "3", "]"}], "]"}]}]}], ")"}], "/", "255"}], ")"}], "&"}], ",", " ", RowBox[{"N", "[", RowBox[{"g", "[", RowBox[{"[", RowBox[{"1", ",", "1"}], "]"}], "]"}], "]"}], ",", RowBox[{"{", "2", "}"}]}], "]"}]}], ";"}]], "Input"] WMFC Courier New ???????? Math1Mono ????? Math2Mono Courier New 0u0u WMFC */I'm partially erect. We're in an unknown motel room. Her labia are prominent. Our nipples are hard. Our faces are angry, depressed. We're going to fuck or we're going to kill./* */There's the first transformation. Our bodies swell and glisten. Our bodies seem wet. The breasts and penis protrude. You could almost enter us. We could almost enter you. We're surrounded by blasted objects. The wall has been cut loose. You can't tell about the explosion. You can't tell if it's a trick. Everything in the foreground is peeled away. Everything in the foreground goes to hard-core black and white./* EMF Cell[BoxData[ RowBox[{ RowBox[{"gFunction", "=", RowBox[{"ListInterpolation", "[", RowBox[{"Transpose", "[", "gg", "]"}], "]"}]}], ";"}]], "Input"]F7C Courier New gFunction Math1Mono ????????????????????? ListInterpolation Math2Mono Transpose Courier New 0u0u " WMFC */Now there's the second transformation. Our skin begins to disappear. We're part of everything else in the world. Did we do this to everything. Did everything return. My face blasts apart. There is no ceiling. This is the epiphany of incandescent desire. We're in and out of the Cell./* EMF Cell[BoxData[ RowBox[{ RowBox[{"Plot3D", "[", RowBox[{ RowBox[{"gFunction", "[", RowBox[{"x", ",", "y"}], "]"}], ",", RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"x", ",", "1", ",", "540"}], "}"}], ",", RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"y", ",", "1", ",", "380"}], "}"}], ",", RowBox[{"PlotPoints", "\[Rule]", "100"}], ",", RowBox[{"Lighting", "\[Rule]", "False"}], ",", " ", RowBox[{"ViewPoint", "->", RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"0", ",", " ", ".136", ",", " ", "1.233"}], "}"}]}], ",", RowBox[{"Mesh", "\[Rule]", "True"}]}], "]"}], ";"}]], "Input"] RowBox[{"gFunction", "[", Box[{"x", ",", "y"}], "]"}], ",", RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"x", ",", "1", ",", "540"}], "}"}], ",", */We're coming to an end. We're this mirror of you. We're this mirror of all of you. We're in the ruins. We're jammed with you in us. We're jammed in you. The Cell is falling. We're in and out of the Cell./* RowBox[{"{", RowBox[{"y", ",", "1", ",", "380" @, " WMFC Courier New Plot3D Math2Mono ?????????????? gFunction Courier New PlotPoints Math1Mono Lighting False ViewPoint .136 1.233 Mesh True 0u0u Normal == song spears pour out of the breasts g = Import["pour.jpg"]; radioactive emissions pour from mouths h = Map[((.3#[[1]] + .50#[[2]] + .11#[[3]])/255) &, N[g[[1, 1]]], {2}]; the cock gouges a hole in the body and nestles in rays pour out of the hole hFunction = ListInterpolation[Transpose[.2 - Zeta[Cot[Tan[h^2 + 1.9]]]]]; the face is absorbed in sheaves of arrows pouring out Plot3D[hFunction[x, y], {x, 1, 640}, {y, 1, 480}, PlotPoints -> 400, Lighting -> False, ViewPoint -> {0.000, 0.000, 2.171}, Mesh -> False]; the cunt is surrounded by an outpouring of javelins === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 22:54:04 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: USMIL ANTHRAX AND YOU! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The US Military has an Anthrax Vaccination program (gee, um, that's a military site? looks pretty promotion-minded for these guys): http://www.anthrax.osd.mil/HTML_interface/default.html The Us Military are paying some guys formerly known as Michigan Biologic Products Institute (MBPI) to make the vaccine. The first two of three hits on their former name consist of many FDA violations, including "Failure to provide separate or defined areas or such control system for the firm's manufacturing and processing operations to prevent contamination or mixups." Seems like they Military hired the right idiots so as to establish plausible deniability. http://www.enter.net/~jfsorg/OfficialDocuments_files/FDA_1997.htm http://www.enter.net/~jfsorg/OfficialDocuments_files/FDA_1995.htm More about MBPI's anthrax production methods here: http://www.dallasnw.quik.com/cyberella/Anthrax/anthrax1.htm Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 23:04:21 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: WTC INSIDER TRADING: AMERICAN BANK RESPONSIBLE, TIES TO CIA? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case you were wondering why the investigation into the short sells in UAL and American stock on Sept 7 and 10 SUDDENLY VANISHED FROM THE NEWS...this might be an explanation? http://www.copvcia.com/stories/oct_2001/krongard.html OK, I believe the author does not provide a firm enough connection, but hey, plausible deniability is essential.... Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 05:50:52 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: some discussion of the present situation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No reason: but equally no reason to think that an atttack on an extremely poor country will decrease the probability of terrorist attacks. OK there is often a lot of hyperbole and "over the top" but there is truth in what Mr Bowman says even if he maybe puts it a bit "directly". (Look at some of the info on the oil connection). Obviously Big Bad America isnt responsible for the woes of the whole world but what is neccessary is to see that violence perpetuates violence. So as your country bombs Afgahnistan and threatens others: then throughout the world many young men of Muslim origion maybe,or somebody in Iran or South America where there is enormous and obscene debts owed to the US (who cynically collaborated eg in the murder of those in South and Central America and also in Indonesia) or who are simply dissaffected as they say: are probably right now plotting a life of terrorism:one could do worse... (they might even be rich eg living in Beverly Hills) with some hacking and virus making thrown in. I heard and Indian chap on the BBC comment "How can you wage war on an abstract noun?" The Vietnam war probably gave rise top Pol Pot (this can be shown as mathematicians say)...maybe doesnt "justify" Pol Pot and all the skulls...the persecution and poverty of Germany led (rather indirectly to Hitler who originally wanted a strong Germany: which many people in America and the West thought was good because Communism and Judaism would come under attack)...the persecution of Jewish people and others lead to Israel and the persecution (by SOME Israelis) of Palestinians some of whom dream of dying in a blinding blast and so on....an analysis of the causes is your only hope: not some crazy military adventure. If one missile goes astray away and hits other nationals or the US turns on Iraq etal then I'll be right behind the Jihad: this war is now a terrrorist generator as the Israeli actions against Palestinians is as the terrible actions of the British in Ireland lead to the glorious struggle of the Irish Republican Army's freedom fighters. Bin Laden I see as a hero and I'm not even a Muslim!!You academics, most of you, have never had to work in a factory in the "real" world as I have at say NZ$7.00 an hour (do the conversion to US$): go and live for a while with poor people (say in Chicago estate) as George Orwell did. Become a black person as Howard Griffin did. What are the causes of "terrorism" at what point does a so-called terroist become a freedom fighter or is already a policeman beating a black man to death in the US? Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david antin" To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 2:14 PM Subject: some discussion of the present situation > 1. From Yvonne Rainer to David Antin, a posted message: > > > > Robert Bowman flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam. He is > presently (1998) bishop of the United Catholic Church in Melbourne Beach, > FL. Originally printed in The National Catholic Reporter, Oct. 2, 1998. > > > The "Security" Charade > > by Robert Bowman > > > > If deceptions about terrorism go unchallenged, then the > >threat will continue until it destroys us. The truth is that none of our > >thousands of nuclear weapons can protect us from these threats. No Star > >Wars > >system no matter how technically advanced, no matter how many trillions of > >dollars are poured into it, can protect us from a nuclear weapon delivered > >in > >a sailboat or a Cessna > >or a suitcase or a Ryder rental truck. Not one weapon in our vast arsenal, > >not a penny of the $270 billion a year we spend on so-called defense can > >defend against a > >terrorist bomb. That is a military fact. > > As a retired lieutenant colonel and a frequent lecturer on > >national security issues, I have often quoted Psalm 33: "A king is not saved > >by his mighty army. A warrior is not saved by his great strength." The > >obvious reaction is, "Then what can we do?" Is there nothing we can do to > >provide security for our people?" > > There is. But to understand it requires that we know the > >truth > >about the > >threat. President Clinton did not tell the American people the truth about > >why we are the targets of terrorism when he explained why we bombed > >Afghanistan and Sudan. He said that we are a target because we stand for > >democracy, freedom, and human rights in the world. > > Nonsense! We are the target of terrorists because, in much of > >the world, our government stands for dictatorship, bondage, and human > >exploitation. We are > >the target of terrorists because we are hated. And we are hated because our > > government has done hateful things. > > In how many countries have agents of our government deposed > >popularly elected leaders and replaced them with puppet military > >dictators who were willing to sell out their own people to American > >multinational corporations? We did it in Iran when the US Marines and the > >CIA deposed Mossadegh because he wanted to nationalize the oil industry. We > >replaced him with the Shah, and armed, trained, and paid his hated Savak > >National Guard, which enslaved and brutalized the people of Iran, all to > >protect the financial interests of our oil companies. Is it any wonder that > >there are people in Iran who hate us? > > We did it in Chile. We did it in Vietnam. More recently, we > >tried to do it in Iraq. And, of course, how many times have we done it in > >Nicaragua and all the other banana republics of Latin America? Time after > >time we have ousted popular leaders who wanted the riches of the land to be > >shared by the people who worked it. We replaced them with murderous tyrants > >who would sell out their own people so the wealth of the land could be taken > >out by the likes of Domino Sugar, Folgers, and Chiquita Banana. > > > > In country after country, our government has thwarted > >democracy, stifled > >freedom, and trampled human rights. That's why it is hated around the > >world. And that's why we're the target of terrorists. > > > > People in Canada enjoy democracy, freedom, and human > >rights. So do the people of Norway and Sweden. Have you heard of Canadian > >embassies being bombed? Or Norwegian, or Swedish? > > > > We are not hated because we practice democracy, value freedom, > >or uphold human rights. We are hated because our government denies these > >things to > >people in Third World countries whose resources are coveted by our > >multinational corporations. That hatred we have sown has come back to haunt > >us in the form of terrorism and in the future, nuclear terrorism. > > > > Once the truth about why the threat exists is understood, the > >solution > >becomes obvious. We must change our ways. Getting rid of our nuclear > >weapons unilaterally if necessary will enhance our security. Drastically > >altering our foreign policy will ensure it. Instead of sending our sons and > >daughters around the world > >to kill Arabs so we can have the oil under their sand, we should send them > >to rebuild their infrastructure, supply clean water, and feed starving > >children. Instead of continuing to kill hundreds of Iraqui children every > >day with our sanctions, we should help Iraquis rebuild their electric power > >plants, their water treatment facilities, their hospitals, and all the > >things > >we have destroyed and prevented them from rebuilding. Instead of training > >terrorists and death squads, we should close the School of the Americas [Ft. > >Benning, GA.]. Instead of supporting insurrection, destabilization, > >assassination, and terror around the world, we should abolish the CIA and > >give money to relief agencies. > > In short, we should do good instead of evil. Who would try to > >stop us? Who would hate us? Who would want to bomb us? That is the truth > >the American > >people need to hear. > > > 2. From DA to Yvonne Rainer > > I'm not at all sure that this is the message we need to hear. > > Robert Bowman flew 101 missions in a disgusting and immoral and > stupid war. What kind of authority does that make him now that he's > a bishop and happens to have had a change of heart? It's really > surprising how many intelligent and well meaning people repeat the > same mix of historical truths and hyperbolic prophecies,from which > they derive the same well meaning, banal and insufficient conclusions. > There is no reason to suppose that a change in American > foreign policy will deter people who already have a developed career > in terrorism from continuing their career. What will Osama Bin Laden > do, become an independent filmmaker? There is no reason to suppose > that anything we can do favoring "the people of Iraq" or of Palestine > will reduce the aggressive ambitions of Saddam Hussein. Perhaps after > thirty or forty years of a balanced Near Eastern and Far Eastern > policy the children of the people trained in the religious schools of > radical Islam will begin to imagine that they have enemies closer to > home. Do you believe this? Meanwhile, during those thirty or forty > years how many terrorist attacks do you imagine we will have to > endure with Christ-like patience or Buddha-like indifference. Bowman > has come late to his knowledge of American imperial history. It's a > history we share with England, France, Belgium and Germany. The > reason they're not directly under attack is that we happen aat > presesnt to be he most powerful. The reason Canada isn't a target of > terrorism is not the morality of its foreign policy, but it's > relative lack of power. Now that Bowman has learned his belated > history lesson, he offers a cautionary tale and an absurd prophecy. > Sure we can't prevent every act of terror, but what makes him sure we > can't prevent a great many? We can make it more difficult to carry > them out. We can increase intelligence and disrupt the networks of > active conspirators whenever we find them. And we can increase > security to some significant degree, considering how slovenly it's > been up to now, making it more difficult to carry out attacks. There > may very well be attacks, but fewer if we take action against the > attackers. The question is not whether to take such action, but the > precise nature of action we have to take. And of course it would be > good -- for many reasons -- to rethink American foreign policy in > terms of our own real advantage and the ethical condition of our > actions. Not because it will change the opinion of our enemies and > turn them into friends, but because it will allow us a well-deserved > self respect. > > I'm almost as tired of these people as I am of George W. > > Best > > David > > > > 3. From Yvonne Rainer to David Antin > > > First of all, everyone has the authority, you, me, why not Robert > Bowman? Does a "change of heart" disqualify him from speaking with authority? > > I agree that security and "intelligence" measures can prevent some acts of > terrorism, but you have said nothing of the provocations of "surgical" > strikes against Afghanistan. If the U.S. kills ben Laden, he will become a > martyr and role model more than ever for generations to come. Changes in our > foreign policies will of course not make ben Laden and his ilk become > independent filmmakers, but looking further than greedy multinationals' > self-interested economic depredations has got to have consequences in the > long run different from our current catastrophic mess. > > And Bowman's facts are right on; we can't repudiate them: The U.S. has > undermined and destroyed democracy in too many places. This is not diminished > by the fact that European nations are equally culpable. Yvonne > > > > 4.Dear Yvonne -- The kind of authority everybody has is no authority, > and that's quite good enough for an expression of opinion,which > Bowman is certainly entitled to. But his record in Vietnam is not > inspiring with respect to his judgment. Given his background, it > appears that he was as a young man part of the right wing American > Catholic "anti-Communist" world, that through its leading > representative in the US -- Cardinal Spellman -- played a large part > in placing a Catholic premier -- Diem -- in the position of powerless > power in Vietnam. He had no support in the Buddhist community and was > entirely dependent on the old French Catholic connections in Vietnam, > the American liberal cold war activists like Ladejinsky, and > propagandists like Tom Dooley. As Bowman was apparently a sucker for > this world of interventionist propaganda in the affairs of Vietnam, > one would want to regard his enthusiasms with some skepticism. > > What he is right about is a great deal of history that is very well > known. Its relevance in the long run may be significant, but not in > the absurd way he proposes. No government will do anything that isn't > in some way in its own interest, or what its officials can regard as > its interest. Governments don't do "good". They never have and never > will. The attempt to straighten out American diplomacy is complex and > difficult and necessary. But any attempt to straighten it out will > benefit from a more honest assessment than Bowman's. > > The American sanctions have not killed all those children in Iraq. > The sanctions were however a serious misjudgment that allowed a great > deal of suffering without accomplishing their end. They were aimed > to restrict Saddam Hussein's military capabilities by economic > constriction. But they underestimated Saddam's cynicism, his > ruthlessness and his intelligence -- his willingness to steal all the > resources generated by the oil he was allowed to sell, which were to > be used for the needs of the Iraqi population, for his personal and > military uses. He was willing to allow thousands of people to suffer > because he was aware that he could starve everyone in Iraq and that > Arab propagandists would blame all these collateral casualties on the > US and regard him as a long suffering hero. So, the U.S, once it > realized the failure of its policy, should have withdrawn the > sanctions and looked for other ways to destabilize the dangerous and > cruel and lethal Hussein. So more honestly stated, Saddam Hussein > killed all those people and dragged America in as a stupid accomplice > and fall guy. You will not hear that version from Bowman. You won't > hear it from the Arab world, or from kneejerk Americans leftists. As > for what America did in Iran in relation to Mossadegh and > installation of the Shah, it was a nasty piece of oil politics played > with the approval and diplomatic connivance of the other Western > powers. As to what the mullahs did in Iran after they overthrew the > Shah, it was a nasty piece of Arab fundamentalist extremism, that > might or might not have occurred if Mossadegh had taken power. If > there is a reasoned Arab or Islamic liberalism or conservatism,after > years of suppression, first by the Shah and then by the mullahs, it > isn't in a very good position to speak right now. At least not in the > Islamic countries. If we try to improve our relations with the more > secular contingents in Iran too openly, the mullahs will step in to > cause trouble as they have over the last five or six years in which > anti-extremism has gradually reappeared. There is probably no very > good policy to undertake in regard to Pakistan, except to move > cautiously. They have a military dictator with an atomic bomb. He is > currently our ally and is supported pretty much by the middle class > and opposed by an intense if not very large minority of Islamic > fundamentalist Pakistanis and Afghan immigrants, and he is conducting > an ongoing guerrilla war in Kashmir. Go figure your policy there. In > Afghanistan,there is a disastrous and repressive fundamentalist > government, such as it is, in whose nest there is a conspiratorial > network headed by Bin Laden. If we attack him and his network of > co-conspirators and in the course of things destabilize the Taliban, > we may be doing the helpless people of Pakistan some kind of favor -- > if we don't kill too many helpless civilians along the way. If we > don't attack him, we will lose helpless civilians. Pick your poison. > On the Israeli -- Palestine issue, It is hard to believe there will > be any solution that makes any sense with Sharon in power. Somehow > America has to convince an Israeli population, that already believes > the US is willing to sell them out for oil, that a serious resolution > of the settlement question and the creation of an integral > Palestinian state is the only way to arrive at a lasting peace. The > Israelis see themselves as the victims of an ongoing guerilla war, > the Palestinians see themselves as the victims of ongoing Israeli > aggression and state terror. What specific way to move here is not > obvious. Perhaps the good bishop has some answer, but I doubt it. I > haven't mentioned Syria or its client state Lebanon, but they > complicate matters also. My main point is that history is useless if > all you can use it for is confession of past guilt -- though it may > appeal to Catholics. > > Best > > David ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:20:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: on what to call them In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20011012095424.00ad9828@mail.verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >George-- > >The US and its media is not supposed to use Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The two >bomb droppings would incriminate the US. Thus, we continue to hear of Pearl >Harbor. > >--Ak > >At 05:25 PM 10/9/2001, you wrote: >>For those who are looking for a new vocabulary to describe the events of >>September 11, might I suggest the words "Hiroshima" and "Nagasaki"? Damn. Does that mean we cant use Panama City? Nope. Beirut? Nope. Santo Domingo. Not a chance. Grenada? Uh uh. etc etc -- George Bowering Big Jerome Charyn fan Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:22:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Collins, Corbett, Barrett, Luacanno, Torra read at Brookline Booksmith In-Reply-To: <006901c15343$eb3ad460$a9fdfc83@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >My review of Billy Collins' new book is posted at: >http://www.unm.edu/~reality/Writing/Collins.htm > >-Joel > >Joel Weishaus >Center for Excellence in Writing >Portland State University >Portland, Oregon. >http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 > This "Billy Collins" isnt a real person, is it? I thought this was a running joke on the poetry net. -- George Bowering Big Jerome Charyn fan Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 14:43:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" Subject: The Other Oil Comments: To: JBCM2@aol.com Comments: cc: BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Taleban Wipes out Afghanistan's Opium Production Jim Teeple Jalalabad 8 Apr 2001 21:23 UTC U.N. drug control officials say Taleban authorities in Afghanistan have wiped out the country's opium crop - the largest such crop in the world. U.N. officials say the action is unprecedented, and Afghanistan's former poppy farmers need urgent assistance to help them make the transition to farming legitimate crops. That transition is already well underway, but many Afghan farmers think giving up poppy farming will mean a harder life. Digging an irrigation ditch in the hot sun is not easy work. For 56-year-old Jamroz, who like many Afghans goes by one name, the work is backbreaking. It is also something he says he is not used to doing. Until recently Jamroz did not have to worry too much about constantly irrigating his fields. That is because until recently Jamroz grew opium poppies. Poppies are an ideal crop for an aging farmer - they do not require much water. The only real work involved in farming poppies comes when it is time to scrape the raw opium gum off the plant. Farmers like Jamroz have been growing poppies in the shadows of the Black Mountains in eastern Afghanistan since before Alexander the Great passed this way more than 2,000 years ago. But they no longer do. Last year, Taleban authorities told them to stop. Now, Jamroz and his neighbors plant wheat and onions in their fields. Surveying his fields, Jamroz says he willingly switched to growing wheat, but his new crop has failed, due to the worst drought to strike Afghanistan in decades. He says Taleban authorities promised he would receive international aid to compensate for the loss of his poppy income, but so far none has come. Jamroz stopped growing opium poppies last year, after the Taleban's supreme leader Mullah Mohammed Omar banned poppy farming. The Islamic leader backed up the ban with a religious edict declaring poppy farming to be un-Islamic. Mullah Amir Mohammed Haqqani is the senior Taleban official in charge of poppy eradication efforts in eastern Afghanistan. Working out of an office in the city of Jalalabad, in Afghanistan's Nangahar province, Mullah Haqqani says he has successfully eliminated poppy farming in the region. Mullah Haqqani says nearly everybody responded positively to Mullah Omar's edict. He says there were a few farmers - maybe about 5 percent of the total - who did not want to go along, but they were eventually persuaded to join their neighbors after mediation by religious leaders and elders in their communities. Since the Taleban took control of most of Afghanistan, international drug control officials have accused the Islamic hard-liners of being involved in the drug trade, and of using their profits to fund military campaigns. This is something Taleban authorities vehemently deny. The United Nations has imposed sanctions on Afghanistan's Taleban leadership for their refusal to hand over accused terrorist Osama bin Laden. Some drug control experts also say it is still unclear how much opium was stockpiled inside Afghanistan - from previous crops - and it is premature to say opium production has been wiped out. But Bernard Frahi, head of the U.N. drug control program for Pakistan and Afghanistan, applauds what the Taleban has accomplished in recent months - eliminating this year's opium crop and wiping out 3,500 tons of opium production - or 75 percent of the global crop. "It is an unprecedented event - we have to recognize that - particularly when it comes from authorities ruling a country - even if they are de facto authorities - it is almost the first time this has happened," he said. Many Afghans say their success in eliminating this year's poppy crop is not widely known in many western capitals where addicts use the final product of the opium poppy - heroin. Sher Mohammed Abbas Stanakzai is the Taleban deputy minister for public health in Kabul. He says, "If the same action would have been taken by any other nation or country I think the whole world have appreciated it at least, and they would have supported that nation. But in our case this was not even appreciated and nobody has mentioned has mention it. Anyway whatever we have done we have done for the benefit of our own people - it was our own decision and we have done it." Taleban officials and former poppy farmers in Afghanistan say wiping out the opium crop does not come without a price. They say the international community should step in with aid to help the farmers. But Taleban authorities say even if no aid comes, they will not allow Afghanistan's farmers to go back to cultivating opium poppies. They say the religious edict banning poppy farming is permanent, and opium will never again be harvested in the parts of Afghanistan they control. The views expressed in the contributed papers are that of the writer (s) and are not necessarily shared by the Institute for Afghan Studies (IAS). In addition the IAS can take no responsibility for the quality and content of contributed material and external links. Please review our Privacy Statement. www.institute-for-afghan-studies.org To contact us, send us an email at: info@institute-for-afghan-studies.org JBCM2@aol.com wrote: > (apologies for cross-posting... joe brennan) > > Nowar Collective* > > > > Pipeline Dreams one of the factors which led to throwing Ms Benazir Bhutto > out of power > > The Herald June 1997 > > The two-years battle between US oil company Unocal and Argentinean firm > Bridas to build an oil and gas pipeline from Turkmenistan, across war-torn > Afghanistan and through to Pakistan has intensified after the Nawaz Sharif > government signed an agreement with Turkmenistan and Unocal at the Economic > Co-ordination Organisation (ECO) in Ashkhabad on May 14. Bridas has the clear > support of the Taliban who have promised to give Bridas permission to build > the pipeline, while Unocal appear to have secured Turkmenistan and Pakistan’s > support. > > Nagging question behind this deal is why Pakistan has sided with one > consortium rather than the other. Since 1995, both the Bhutto government and > the military did not commit to one oil company. Pakistan’s earlier position > was that it would allow both companies to compete and then co-operate with > the one that built the pipeline first. But the reality is that the US State > Department is heavily backing Unocal, and Turkmenistan is desperately keen to > garner US support for its oil and gas exports. Bridas’ problems with Unocal > in Turkmenistan are generally placed at the door of a US desire to monopolise > Turkmenistan’s energy. So the reason why Pakistan now seems to favour one > company over the other is that the Sharif government appears to have bent to > US pressure. > > The protocol signed by Pakistan is deeply flawed. It makes no mention of the > Afghan warlords through whose territory the pipeline would pass and does not > involve the Taliban in any decision making in the future. The Taliban are > expected to react angrily to this development. > > The Sharif government is banking on the ISI making sure that the Taliban > dump Bridas and go long with whatever Pakistan wants, a senior bureaucrat in > Islamabad explains. But that will not be so easy. > > History of Bridas and Unocal’s competition in the region is age old. However > US interest in laying pipeline through Unocal, was established in April 1995, > when Turkmenistan President Niyazov signed our government with Unocal (a 12th > largest oil company in the US) and its partner, the Saudi Arabian owned Delta > Oil Company to behind a gas pipeline extending from Daulatabad Gas Fields to > Multan. Unocal later signed an even more ambitious agreement for laying an > oil pipeline from Chardzhou in Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to an oil > terminal on Pakistan’s coast delivering 1 million barrels per day. > > Bridas also offered to build an oil pipeline but it suffered a setback when > President Niyazov banned Bridas oil exports and shutting down its other > operations in December 95. Bridas moved the courts and claimed 15 billion US > dollars in damages. > > Meanwhile, US pressure on Pakistan increased. During two trips to Pakistan > and Afghanistan in April and August 1996, US Assistant Secretary of State > Robin Raphael frequently lobbied for the Unocal pipeline, according to > Pakistani and Afghan diplomats. In August, Raphael also visited Central Asian > capitals and Moscow. "We have an American company which is interested in > building a pipeline from Turkmenistan through to Pakistan," Raphael said at a > press conference in Islamabad on April 21, 1996. "This pipeline project will > be very good for Turkmenistan, for Pakistan and for Afghanistan." > > Earlier, in March 1996 another senior US diplomat had a major row with > Bhutto when he lobbied for Unocal. "He accused Bhutto of ‘extortion’ when > she defended Bridas, and Bhutto was furious," says a senior Bhutto aide who > was present at the meeting. "She demanded a written apology from the diplomat > which she got," says another aide. > > But in Ashkhabad, the Americans achieved their objective. In October, > Niyazov gave Unocal-Delta exclusive rights to build the pipeline. > > With all the odds stacked heavily against it, Bridas then moved to engage > the support of the Taliban. On May 4 in Kabul, Bridas and the Taliban > declared that by the end of the month they would sign an agreement to build > the pipeline. Pakistan’s agreement endorsement of US oil company Unocal’s > proposal to build pipelines from Central Asia may bring Islamabad into > conflict with the Taliban, who recently cut a deal with a rival company, > Bridas. The reader may now understand the US interest in the laying of > pipeline and pressures it applied on Benazir Bhutto’s government to grant > contractors to a company of its own choosing when she did not succumb to > pressures this pipeline turned out to be one of the factors of Benazir > Bhutto’s downfall. > > *From the Nowar mission statement: > "The Nowar Collective is committed to a radical analysis of society that > emphasizes the structural and institutional reasons for the existence of > hierarchy and oppression. In our conception, foreign policy includes every > part of the offensive unleashed by the United States and the First World > against the rest of the world, whether it is war, IMF restructuring, economic > sanctions, or Monsanto's patenting of seeds." > > http://www.nowarcollective.com/MISSION.HTM ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:08:17 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Purves Subject: New Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed -- apologies for cross-posting -- New from Object Permanence: UNANSWERING RATIONAL SHORE by J.H. Prynne. A sequence of poems, 20pp A5. ISBN 0-9529972-0-7. GBP 2.50 including post and packing in UK. Please enquire after overseas rates. Available from Peter Manson, Object Permanence, Flat 3/2, 16 Ancroft Street, Glasgow G20 7HU, Scotland. Please make cheques payable to Peter Manson. (please forward this email as appropriate) Peter http://www.objectpermanence.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 02:33:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII [ ] the listing of names : : arrangeme nts :: card ed out :: t urned :: ch arred :: li sting and i deology of ash :: writ ten violenc e :: unacco unted :: li nguistic id eology of a sh :: you k eep writing :: nothing at all [ ] | ooo .o | | oo o. | | oo .o o| | o . | | oo o.o | | oo o. o| | ooo . oo| | ooo .o | | oo o. o| | oo o.oo | | oo .ooo| | o . | | oo o.ooo| | oo .oo | | o . | | oo o.oo | | oo . o| | oo o.o o| | oo .o o| | ooo . oo| | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | oo . o| | ooo . o | | ooo . o | | oo . o| | oo o.oo | | oo .ooo| | oo .o o| | oo o.o o| | oo .o o| | oo o.oo | | ooo .o | | ooo . oo| | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | oo . oo| | oo . o| | ooo . o | | oo .o | | oo .o o| | oo .o | | o . | | oo o.ooo| | ooo .o o| | ooo .o | | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | ooo .o | | ooo .o o| | ooo . o | | oo o.oo | | oo .o o| | oo .o | | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | oo . oo| | oo o. | | oo . o| | ooo . o | | ooo . o | | oo .o o| | oo .o | | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | oo o.o | | oo o. o| | ooo . oo| | ooo .o | | oo o. o| | oo o.oo | | oo .ooo| | o . | | oo . o| | oo o.oo | | oo .o | | o . | | oo o. o| | oo .o | | oo .o o| | oo o.ooo| | oo o.o | | oo o.ooo| | oo .ooo| | oooo. o| | o . | | oo o.ooo| | oo .oo | | o . | | oo . o| | ooo . oo| | oo o. | | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | ooo .ooo| | ooo . o | | oo o. o| | ooo .o | | ooo .o | | oo .o o| | oo o.oo | | o . | | ooo .oo | | oo o. o| | oo o.ooo| | oo o.o | | oo .o o| | oo o.oo | | oo . oo| | oo .o o| | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | ooo .o o| | oo o.oo | | oo . o| | oo . oo| | oo . oo| | oo o.ooo| | ooo .o o| | oo o.oo | | ooo .o | | oo .o o| | oo .o | | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | oo o.o | | oo o. o| | oo o.oo | | oo .ooo| | ooo .o o| | oo o. o| | ooo . oo| | ooo .o | | oo o. o| | oo . oo| | o . | | oo o. o| | oo .o | | oo .o o| | oo o.ooo| | oo o.o | | oo o.ooo| | oo .ooo| | oooo. o| | o . | | oo o.ooo| | oo .oo | | o . | | oo . o| | ooo . oo| | oo o. | | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | oooo. o| | oo o.ooo| | ooo .o o| | o . | | oo o. oo| | oo .o o| | oo .o o| | ooo . | | o . | | ooo .ooo| | ooo . o | | oo o. o| | ooo .o | | oo o. o| | oo o.oo | | oo .ooo| | o . | | ooo. o | | ooo. o | | o . | | oo o.oo | | oo o.ooo| | ooo .o | | oo o. | | oo o. o| | oo o.oo | | oo .ooo| | o . | | oo . o| | ooo .o | | o . | | oo . o| | oo o.o | | oo o.o | | o. o | ___________ [ ] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:27:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Mike Topp More from Mike Topp, who lives and works in a large, Eastern metropolis and can be reached at mike_topp@hotmail.com. APOLOGY Dear Burger King Patrons, I am sorry that I tried to shoot you. It was something that no one will ever understand that made me do it, and not anything personal. Sincerely, Alan Postman DINOSAURS If dinosaurs were around today, they would probably be amazed at how many dinosaur movies there are, and angry that they hadn’t thought of making any. GEORGE W. BUSH PISSING OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:56:01 -0400 Reply-To: etgrinn@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "E. Tracy Grinnell" Subject: Aufgabe Deadline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aufgabe is accepting submissions for Issue #2, deadline December 1, 2001. Issue #2 will feature a section of German writing guest edited by Rosmarie Waldrop. The main section of the journal is open and you are encouraged to send poetry, essays, notes, talks or reviews (along with SASE or email contact for reply) to: Aufgabe c/o E. Tracy Grinnell 97 Summit St. #3 Brooklyn, NY 11231 Aufgabe #1, featuring guest editors Norma Cole and Leslie Scalapino, is available through Small Press Distribution. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:59:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Fouhy Subject: Poetry-Ron Price and Pamela Uschuk Comments: To: "Zork Alan [Poetry] (E-mail)" , "Zork Alan (E-mail)" Comments: cc: "Paul-Victor L. Winters" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Northern Westchester Center for the Arts 272 N. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY 10549 914 241 6922 ext 17 cindyf@bestweb.net Ron Price and Pamela Uschuk Creative Arts Café Poetry Series Continues Fall Series Mt. Kisco, NY: October 15th at 7:30 PM the Creative Arts Café Poetry Series at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts continues its seventh season with Award Winning Poets Ron Price and Pamela Uschuk- poet living in Tucson, Arizona . The reading is followed by a reception, book signing and OPEN MIKE. Ron Price is Poet in Residence at the Juilliard School. His poems have appeared in literary journals and various anthologies. The past recipient of a Pennsylvania Council on the Arts Fellowship, in 1996 Price was a U.S.I.A. Visiting Poet to Belgium. In addition to A Small Song Called Ash From The Fire, he is the author of a chapbook, Surviving Brothers, & a sixty minute recording called A Crucible for the Left Hand. He teaches the Poetry Workshop at NWCA on Wed. Evenings. Pamela’s poems have appeared in nearly 200 journals and anthologies world-wide, including POETRY, PARNASSUS REVIEW, PEQUOD, COMMONWEAL, AGNI EVIEW, NIMROD, CALYX, 48 YOUNGER AMERICAN POETS, ATOMIC GHOST and others. Her first book of poems, FINDING PEACHES IN THE DESERT, was released by Wings Press in June 2000 and has received many favorable reviews. A CD by the same name will be released soon from Wings. Her poems are accompanied by music by the band, Chameleon, by Joy Harjo and Dan van Kilsdonk. In April 2002, her second book of poems, ONE-LEGGED DANCER is due out of Wings. Among the prizes her work has been awarded are the 2001 Tucson/Pima Arts Council Writing Award, the Struga 2000 International Poetry Prize, the ASCENT Poetry Prize, the King's English Poetry Prize and awards from the National League of PEN Women, the Chester H. Jones Foundation and Amnesty International. Her poems have been translated into Albanian, Bulgarian, Czechoslovakian, French, Korean, Macedonian, Spanish, and Swedish. Pamela will be one of the American poets featured at this year's Slovenian Poetry Festival as well as at the Swedish Book Festival in September. This past semester she was Visiting Poet at Fort Lewis College in Durango, Colorado. In February 2002, she will assume the Directorship of the Center for Women Writers at Salem College in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. The suggested donation is $7.00; Seniors and Students: $5.00. The Creative Ars Café Poetry Series is funded by the New York State Council on the Arts and the Bydale Foundation. The Northern Westchester Center for the Arts is located at 272 N. Bedford Road, Mt. Kisco, NY. For further information, call Cindy Beer-Fouhy at 914 241 6922 ext 17. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:50:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: 2 or three things Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed James Cook, Yes, the Andrew Sullivan piece is called The Agony of the Left. His website must title the "lead" (or most recent) piece with the same HTML name, then switch when it goes into the archive. Sort of a dumb way to run a web site. David Bromige, That Brandeis student who started that petition has lost her email privileges there as thousands of responses brought the school's server to its knees and also violated school regs re spam. Ron Ron Silliman ron.silliman@gte.net rsillima@hotmail.com DO NOT RESPOND to Tottels@Hotmail.com It is for listservs only. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:40:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: OIL/DRUGS/MINERALS/AFGHANISTAN/BUSH/CIA/KLA/BINLADEN - zip files In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > NEED MORE INFO ON CASPIAN/CAUCASUS OIL AND ITS RELATIONSHIP TO THE > US/AFGHANISTAN CONFLICT? > > Download a zip file full of web analyses on the Afghanistan-Caucasus/Oil & > & for those who like a gutenberg-product for perusal away from screens, Ahmed Rashid's book _Taliban_ (Yale/Nota Bene, 2001)has excellent chapters on Oil in the new Great Game. In fact, this book is the best background reading on the situation in Central Asia I have come across. Pierre ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 POASIS: Selected Poems 1986-1999 Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 go to: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/poasis.htm Email: joris@ albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 06:10:33 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: philippe boisnard Subject: Anne van der Linden, Philippe Boisnard, Mehdi Belhaj Kacem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ________________________________ L e s é d it i o n s t r a m e o u e s t 22 rue Pasteur 62000 Arras tel : 0321234080 / 0661372235 / philemoon@wanadoo.fr ________________________________ présentent K . o r t ( O R ) Tu(R) & textes de Philippe Boisnard 10 dessins couleurs de Anne van der Linden préface de Mehdi Belhaj Kacem ISBN : 2-914557-04-3 prix : 80 Fr. / 13,72 EUR Tirage de tête : Livre remanié avec l'un des originaux des 10 dessins de Anne van der Linden : 1500 Fr. Vous pourrez découvrir ce livre au salon de la revue à Paris, les 19,20 et 21 Octobre. ________________________________ Cette diffusion n'est pas un spam, si vous désirez ne plus recevoir l'annonce de nos nouveautés, et des lectures que nous organisons, envoyez-nous un mail. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:21:12 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Why Why Me Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Soldier gets shot Cries why why me But isn't that what soldiers do You took a human birth & so you get death & in the gap between Suffering happiness You lose so you win You're good & so there's sin Strange how when others die & you survive Inside glad you're still alive Reuven BenYuhmin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:32:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Elevator Box and Postcard Projects In-Reply-To: <20011015040749.6683.qmail@front.acsu.buffalo.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jeffrey Jullich encouraged me to forward this (additional) information to the list. Inquiries about the projects (and about purchasing a Box or a postcard Book) should be directed to Mike Kelleher, mjk@acsu.buffalo.edu JS Dear Jeffrey, Thanks for your interest. Postcard project is the second in Elevator Press's artist's 'zine series, which began with last year's Box Project, featuring collaborations between Buffalo artists and poets from Buffalo and beyond. (For the Box Project, 15 poets collected 40 objects each, then documented this collection in writing, while a Buffalo artist, Brian Collier, made 40 boxes to contain the objects and texts; the "zine" appeared in a run of 40 "copies" of the box-object-writing assemblage, each box having 15 different objects and 15 different texts.) The Postcard Project involves postcards from 40 poets (the postcards were sent out blank, and returned with poems on the back) to my wife, painter and sculptor Isabelle Pelissier: she painted over each postcard and made 40 metal books each of which will bear the painting on its cover and a booklet reproducing 40 poems. Kristen Gallagher is designing and printing the booklets. Isabelle has long painted on postcards; Brian often constructs boxes for his installations. The ideas for the projects take their inspiration from the nature of the collaborating artists' work and the collective interest of participating poets. There are still some boxes for sale from the Box Project-- if you're interested, contact Mike Kelleher: mjk@acsu.buffalo.edu Best, Jonathan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:42:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: key MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = key /ellohay / eway areway youray eadday / eway aitway orfay armageddonway / eway annotcay emem berray youray amesnay / eway eednay away istlay ofway youray amesnay / eway itewray inway odec ay / onay oneway illway everway indfay usway / usway usway usway / ellohay arnivorecay / eway areway your- ay eatmay / el lohay universeway / eway areway youay ray arkday attermay / eway areway youray onesbay andway youray arrowmay / eway a reway youray uthtray andway youray bay oodlay / ellohay eatgray universeway / ellohay ellohay / eway areway youray eadd ay / eway aitway orfay armagway charred and double key /ellohayway / ewayway arewayway yourayay eaddayway / ewayway aitwayway orfayway armageddonwayway / ewayway annotcayway ememway erraybay yourayay amesnayway / ewayway eednayway awayway istlayway ofwayway yourayay amesnayway / ewayway itewrayway inwayway odecway ayway / onayway onewayway illwayway everwayway indfayway uswayway / uswayway uswayway uswayway / ellohayway arnivorecayway / ewayway arewayway yourayayway eatmayway / elway ohaylay universewayway / ewayway arewayway youayay ayray arkdayway attermayway / ewayway arewayway yourayay onesbayway andwayway yourayay arrowmayway / ewayway away ewayray yourayay uthtrayway andwayway yourayay aybay oodlayway / ellohayway eatgrayway universewayway / ellohayway ellohayway / ewayway arewayway yourayay eaddway ayway / ewayway aitwayway orfayway armagwayway impervious triple key /ellohaywayway / ewaywayway arewaywayway yourayayay eaddaywayway / ewaywayway aitwaywayway orfaywayway armageddonwaywayway / ewaywayway annotcaywayway ememwayway erraybayway yourayayay amesnaywayway / ewaywayway eednaywayway awaywayway istlaywayway ofwaywayway yourayayay amesnaywayway / ewaywayway itewraywayway inwaywayway odecwayway aywayway / onaywayway onewaywayway illwaywayway everwaywayway indfaywayway uswaywayway / uswaywayway uswaywayway uswaywayway / ellohaywayway arnivorecaywayway / ewaywayway arewaywayway yourayaywayay eatmaywayway / elwayway ohaylayway universewaywayway / ewaywayway arewaywayway youayayay ayrayway arkdaywayway attermaywayway / ewaywayway arewaywayway yourayayay onesbaywayway andwaywayway yourayayay arrowmaywayway / ewaywayway awayway ewayrayway yourayayay uthtraywayway andwaywayway yourayayay aybayway oodlaywayway / ellohaywayway eatgraywayway universewaywayway / ellohaywayway ellohaywayway / ewaywayway arewaywayway yourayayay eaddwayway aywayway / ewaywayway aitwaywayway orfaywayway armagwaywayway == ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:50:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: women/freedom (was totally tasteless) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Richard, I'll grant you women (and, hey, all of us,) in the US are not as free as we might tend to imagine we are. However the problem rests in your hypothetical theatre of the other -- playing at some international roundtable of cultural comparison, you write "we" vis a vis "our women". Look dude, I'll agree with you the thing is complicated, and raise you -- it's WAY more complicated than anyone using a (generic, esoteric) male "we" is gonna grasp. Elizabeth Treadwell http://www.poetrypress.com/avec/populace.html "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:34:11 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Sircam Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, wryting@julian.uwo.ca, polity@yahoogroups.com, PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Poetryetc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Be warned In the last 12 hours I have had over a dozen messages from "Kathy" trying to give me Sircam L --------------------------------------------------- I disassociate myself from the bombing of Afghanistan by UK government. Those responsible should be tried for murder --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:00:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Left fundamentalism & The Chorus of National Unity and Determination: "2:36:21pm-8:59:51pm EST" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barrett, No, you're not the only person in here dismayed, again, too, in this use of the term "left fundamentalism." The link to the essay by moral theorist Michael Walzer was also disheartening. Are the four propositions that Walzer argues against ("terror is a last resort," "terrorists are weak and can't do anything else,"terror is the universal resort," "the victims weren't innocent") ones that anybody has actually advanced? I notice that Walzer doesn't cite any published writing to support this characterization of the left. We do, however, have plenty of citable evidence of "the chorus of national unity and determination." See below, courtesy of CNN. Also, I think the term "left fundamentalism" here has a different ideological function from the term "social fascism" as deployed by the KPD in late Weimar. It's too early to see if the current term is put to service more broadly by "the liberal-left" but it's also too early this morning to sketch out what I think the distinction is, sorry--will get back if I'm able to. The comparison is worth arguing about. Aaron Vidaver 2:36:21pm-8:59:51pm EST for MP Steve Dunster - 2:36:21pm Just waste Afganistan, and while your at it wipe out all Muslims. Catherine Jeffus - 2:43:20pm I am proud of our president and armed services, they are doing the right thing. Lynn Manderson - 2:43:43pm Bin Laden is an idiot. Cut off his fingers, cut off his toes, and while we are at it, lets cut off his nose. Go America! Pamela Raynes - 2:44:24pm USA Rocks!!!!! Don Easley - 2:55:17pm As a 22 year veteran I support all military actions to include the wiping out of all terrorist. Paul Fletcher - 3:08:17pm Pay back time! Shirley Wiesner - 3:20:20pm I totally support Pres. Bush in his actions today with respect to taking the war to the terrorists. We have accepted their challenge. They will now come to justice. We will take care of the refugees at the same time. Ex Marine - 3:21:07pm Would like to see trancripts on Bin Ladens press coverage. Thank you. PS Take them out with extreme predjudice. David Naeve - 3:22:11pm I am so glad to hear that we are bombing Afghanistan! Thank god! Now I would like to see Bin Laden burn in hell!!! Molly Cheal - 3:26:31pm I believe the only way to finish this is for America to go into Afganistan and take that country over, weed out the organizations that are a threat to innocent people throughout the world, establish a democratic government and help to rebuild it. Merkx - 3:30:29pm Bring'em on. It'll get them out in the open so we can deal with them! There's far more of us than them! J A Marshall - 3:31:43pm We ain't in Kansas anymore. Unfortunately the mentality of the people of the Middle East is violence. It is the only thing they understand. Let's not be so naive anymore. Rick Bar - 3:34:41pm Having trouble getting shut-eye in Kabul tonight? schreujo - 3:37:23pm I stepped on my plane back home the saturday after the attack. I had my "No Fear" t-shirt on, just to show: Don't mess with me. D-lock - 3:37:50pm Maybe we should send band aids with our bombs. it is an outrage to give those afgans food and medicine after the way they danced in the streets after destroying the trade towers , pentigon and the flight that crashed in pennsylvania. Let them eat Oil. After all did they do it for the victims of our country? martyt=fox - 3:41:26pm Go USA kick their ASS were all behind you! Nancy G. Bailey - 3:44:26pm Nancy B. I think it is great we are taking action against this terrorist to preserve some sense of what is accepted as right and wrong behavior in our world today. Jamie Jordan - 3:53:22pm No more talks, simply repeated strikes until our mission is completed. Karen Yeoman - 4:06:26pm The flood gates of hell have been opened and Satan is moving his Pawns (Pawns=Bin Laden and His followers) This is just the begining of the "end of this system of things", as foretold in the Bible. God help us all. Kyle Pietschmann - 4:12:24pm Why don't we just enslave the people of Afghanistan and make them clean up the wreckage by hand? Roger Loeb - 4:13:57pm What part of NO! did they not understand. As a U.S. citizen & U.S. marine Corps vietnam veteran, I say "GO FOR IT!!!" only lets do it right this time, no half-stepping, we must not fail this time! and do not be fearfull! for fear is a sign of weakness, some fear; is only a bit of good sence & given insight to have. It's what terrorists play on; (fear) in which much what of the street gangs try to do as well, It will and can not be tolerated. Proud to be an American! Tony Ryder - 4:28:44pm First, I would like to say GO GET "EM BOYS!! to our Military, God bless you and may you be successful. As far as the idiodic statements made by Bin Lad: I tell you this, we are not in a state of Fear, or panic. we are in a state of READINESS! There is a difference. We will now be on the look out for any and all suspicious movements by anyone who even remotely looks "foreign" in this country. He has sentenced all or his followers, here in the US and other countries all over the world, to a new sort of no more "easy" terrorism. No more just walking in and out and being cowards...they WILL die for their beliefs. I think the most profound thing that the Bin lad. followers have to look forward to now is a SHORTENED life span! Tony Ryder Nashville, TN Donna-Sue Howatson - 4:57:09pm FEAR??? No Osama, not afraid in the slightest! My only fear, as a female, would be to still be ALIVE in a terrorist run society! In a case such as that I would welcome death and my ashes scattered to the wind!! No fear, honey.... I hope they DO have the internet and are checking out message boards and chats rooms visited by persons in the free world. I think the REAL prevailing attitude of Americans (lack of fear) would make him pee his "Aladdin" pants!! :) lilylangtree - 5:05:14pm Hot diggity dog, USA is finally carrying out what should have been done at least two weeks ago. Go, go USA! Osama bin Laden and the Taliban: You godawful cowards! You can run but you can't hide. I can't wait until the coalition returns with your scalp and any other body parts, because as an American, I want justice and retribution for every single life that you and your terrorist buddies took on September 11 and previously. You couldn't face the military but you're willing to take innocent lives. God bless America! eggslinger - 5:49:11pm kill every last man,woman and child!!--fight at same level as terrorists--send clear message to all concerned Trisha Smith - 6:08:27pm Bin Laden and the Taliban are supposedly not really afraid of death, since they believe that they are going to see Allah and have an endless supply of virgins (does that mean their heaven is all about screwing? Crazy). To beat them at this 'game' is to find and use what they are afraid of. I found the following posted on another message board, and I suppose it's a good idea, except I think that would be better if there was another way of fighting back without killing animals. Like maybe have some strippers chase them around and tag them, since they seem to think that women are contaminated or something -- just fooling. Anyway here it is: Once in U.S. history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so "Black Jack" told his boys to catch the perps and teach them a lesson. Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The U.S. soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs. All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years. Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch. They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil. That's right. Use their own beliefs to back them off. Rub down mortar shells and missiles with pig's blood soaked rags. Dip bullet tips in the blood prior to their being attached to the shells. The spectre of going to hell creates far more fear in the mind of a religious zealot, so if these folks in Afghanistan want a war, we'll give 'em one. One in which dying in any manner means an immediate trip to hell. Do you think they'll still want it, then? Kevin Punsky - 6:29:03pm New York - Year 2032 A father and his son are walking the Manhattan streets when the father stops at a vacant lot takes a deep breath and tells his son: To think that at one time here on this very lot stood the Twin Towers. The son looks at his father and asked: Dad, what are the Twin Towers? Father says: My dear son, the Twin Towers were two tremendously tall buildings with lots of offices that was the heart of the United States, but approximately 31 years ago, several Arabs destroyed the buildings. The boy then thought for a minute and then asked his father: Daddy what are Arabs? Ken Engler - 6:32:02pm Look how similar Islamic Radicalism is to Nazism. Nazi's believed the Ayrian race was superior to all others. Islamic Radicals believe they are the chosen of god, superior to all others. Nazi's used hate to unite people behind common causes, with a special focus on Jews. Islamic Radicals preach hate in the name of Allah, with a special focus on Jews. Nazi's took a political movement (Facism -- One party control with a capitalistic society) and turned it into a dirty word. Islamic Radicals are taking the Muslim faith and unjustly dragging it through the mud by trying to use it to support their hate. This has been stated to be a fight against terrorism. Unfortunately, behind the terrorism is a cadre of silent supporters around the world. Groups and individuals who preach Islamic Radicalism. Five Hundred+ religious schools in Northern Pakistan who teach students the beliefs close to the Taliban. Religious leaders in nations like Indonesia who publically state an attack on a Muslim nation is an attack on all. To destroy the threat of Nazism we had to capture and kill virtually every strong supporter of this hateful set of beliefs, including the use of Nuclear weapons to break the will of the Japanese. To destroy the threat of Islamic Radicalism, we will have to do the same. Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Iran, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and other nations with strong Islamic radical groups will have to either eliminate the supporters within their nations, or we will have to do so for them. Doing anything less will allow this cancer to fester and grow. Larry Brumfield - 6:38:57pm Our retribution should be swift and hard. We should kick them back into their caves for the next thousand years - then when they come out again, maybe they'll know how to act. As for the refugees...what refugees? Those are escaping targets!! Alan Cluff - 6:45:23pm It is good to see so many wake up and see how great this nation is. I hope God will forgive us for forgetting. Kevin Punsky - 7:22:45pm What I want to know is if these douchebag highjackers of Islam are so much against women, what the Hell were they doing at a strip club in Florida on the night before the attack? Steven A. Brown - 7:35:37pm This popular idea about a sex change operation for bin Laden is sheer fantasy. We would be sending him back to an Afganistan ruled by a new government, not the Taliban. We don't need to capture him and put him on trial, giving him a forum for his satanic rhetoric. All we need to do is bomb him into oblivion. Ramblin Bob - 7:38:53pm Sick twisted animals like bin laden cannot be reasoned with. Their mind is on power and being worshipped. Why people follow demons like him who will send them to their death by suicide against defenseless people, and never do it themselves is beyond me. I really wish bin laden would lead a suicide attack himself. It would solve many problems. However, while keeping their people completely ignorant of education, morals, and learning nothing but their own twisted view on religion, followers will be there. What a religion it is too! The animals who hijacked the planes were in a topless bar the night before, the taliban sells heroine, and then kills anyone who is caught using it...and the god they follow is a useless and cruel demon that would create terror and murder with not only no remorse, but actually thinking they are martyrs! I'll take my God instead. Would love to see their faces as they awake to Hell and all it's fury thinking all along there would be honeycakes and virgins as a reward for murder. Chad Brick - 7:43:14pm Regardless of what we did, Afghanistan would still be a disaster today. At least we managed to slow Communism on one front. Bobby Chamlee - 7:54:00pm Let the bodies hit the floor. DaveJoy - 7:58:40pm I am very happy with the way President Bush and the United States and our allies have handled this situation. I think the bombings today will hopefully send a message that anything but compliance with our demands will not be tolerated. The Taliban and Osama bin Laden should pay for wounding freedom. I would prefer capturing bin Laden and slowly torturing him instead of killing him. After all "an eye for an eye". Oscar Weatherby - 8:02:56pm I appreciate President Bush's leadership at this time. I am neither Democrat nor Republican (independent), and I didn't vote for him or Gore. But he is my President, the leader of my country, and deserves my support. I, too, am a bit suprised at his competency, and I believe he's doing a good job under severe circumstances. D.J.COLE - 8:14:07pm Osama-ben-laden is a very sick person. please dont give in to any of his demands, just blow him off the map. Em Newberry - 8:14:22pm Afraid? WE'RE afraid? While Bin Laden, the courageous martyr that he is, cowered in the hills and sent others out to do his dying for him, I went out jogging. Who's afraid? Struwwelpeter - 8:24:39pm Taliban, assume the position: head between your legs and kiss your a$$ good-bye! Robert Gouldsbrough - 8:35:59pm Osama bin Laden has made the classic mistake of all bullies: He confused the gentle and peaceful nature of America with cowardice. He understands nothing of the American psyche. shannon cole - 8:43:31pm it's been said, but bears repeating... there's no reasoning with a rapid dog! karmen ingelsberger - 8:46:09pm I say turn Afghanistan into a carpark Kevin Punsky - 8:52:22pm James and Karmen: Thank God for you two. Yes, I said turn that place into a parking lot several dozen posts ago. Yes, thank God for George W. Thank God we have somebody who can stand up for us and not somebody who well sell us down the river and chase after every fat, ugly Jane Rottencrotch. Connie: Why do you have such a problem with my spelling? Are you trying to sway us from the "real" issue here. Because you don't like the way I spell the word "freaken." I'm sorry that I do not know how to spell that word. I think I've got a pretty good handle on my spelling, thanks for sharing your "opinion." pam hoffman - 8:59:51pm Bin Ladin is Satan, and he needs to burn. Forget any offers or negotiations, he can still run everything from prison. Take him out once and for all and we'll be done with him. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:43:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: some discussion of the present situation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/01 8:53:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dantin@UCSD.EDU writes: > Subj:some discussion of the present situation > Date:10/14/01 8:53:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time > From: dantin@UCSD.EDU (david antin) > Sender: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (UB Poetics discussion group) > Reply-to: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (UB Poetics discussion group) > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > > 1. From Yvonne Rainer to David Antin, a posted message: > > > > Robert Bowman flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam. He is > presently (1998) bishop of the United Catholic Church in Melbourne Beach, > FL. Originally printed in The National Catholic Reporter, Oct. 2, 1998. > > > The "Security" Charade [long snip, concluding with the words:] > > In short, we should do good instead of evil. Who would try > to > >stop us? Who would hate us? Who would want to bomb us? That is the truth > >the American > >people need to hear. > > > 2. From DA to Yvonne Rainer > > I'm not at all sure that this is the message we need to hear. No? Speak for yourself, please. > > Robert Bowman flew 101 missions in a disgusting and immoral and > stupid war. What kind of authority does that make him now that he's > a bishop and happens to have had a change of heart? It's really > surprising how many intelligent and well meaning people repeat the > same mix of historical truths and hyperbolic prophecies,from which > they derive the same well meaning, banal and insufficient conclusions. Well, I have no problem with your rejecting his authority. But what makes you think that yours has any more weight? > There is no reason to suppose that a change in American > foreign policy will deter people who already have a developed career > in terrorism from continuing their career. What? > do, become an independent filmmaker? There is no > reason to suppose > that anything we can do favoring "the people of Iraq" or of Palestine > will reduce the aggressive ambitions of Saddam Hussein. Perhaps after > thirty or forty years of a balanced Near Eastern and Far Eastern > policy the children of the people trained in the religious schools of > radical Islam will begin to imagine that they have enemies closer to > home. Do you believe this? > years how many terrorist attacks do > you imagine we will have to > endure with Christ-like patience or Buddha-like indifference. . Well, what planet does DA live on? Where in his lifetime has he seen either Christ-like patience or Buddha-like indifference [sic] put into practice in US foreign policy? > security to some significant degree, considering how slovenly it's > been up to now, making it more difficult to carry out attacks. There > may very well be attacks, but fewer if we take action against the > attackers. The question is not whether to take such action, but the > precise nature of action we have to take. And of course it would be > good -- for many reasons -- to rethink American foreign policy in > terms of our own real advantage and the ethical condition of our > actions. Not because it will change the opinion of our enemies and > turn them into friends, but because it will allow us a well-deserved > self respect. > > I'm almost as tired of these people as I am of George W. > > Best > > David Honestly, I find this contempt for people who are simply pleading for seslf-restraint, well, let me put it very mildly: it is appalling. Best, George Thompson > > > > 3. From Yvonne Rainer to David Antin > > > First of all, everyone has the authority, you, me, why not Robert > Bowman? Does a "change of heart" disqualify him from speaking with > authority? > > I agree that security and "intelligence" measures can prevent some acts of > terrorism, but you have said nothing of the provocations of "surgical" > strikes against Afghanistan. If the U.S. kills ben Laden, he will become a > martyr and role model more than ever for generations to come. Changes in our > foreign policies will of course not make ben Laden and his ilk become > independent filmmakers, but looking further than greedy multinationals' > self-interested economic depredations has got to have consequences in the > long run different from our current catastrophic mess. > > And Bowman's facts are right on; we can't repudiate them: The U.S. has > undermined and destroyed democracy in too many places. This is not > diminished > by the fact that European nations are equally culpable. Yvonne > > > > 4.Dear Yvonne -- The kind of authority everybody has is no authority, > and that's quite good enough for an expression of opinion,which > Bowman is certainly entitled to. But his record in Vietnam is not > inspiring with respect to his judgment. Given his background, it > appears that he was as a young man part of the right wing American > Catholic "anti-Communist" world, that through its leading > representative in the US -- Cardinal Spellman -- played a large part > in placing a Catholic premier -- Diem -- in the position of powerless > power in Vietnam. He had no support in the Buddhist community and was > entirely dependent on the old French Catholic connections in Vietnam, > the American liberal cold war activists like Ladejinsky, and > propagandists like Tom Dooley. As Bowman was apparently a sucker for > this world of interventionist propaganda in the affairs of Vietnam, > one would want to regard his enthusiasms with some skepticism. > > What he is right about is a great deal of history that is very well > known. Its relevance in the long run may be significant, but not in > the absurd way he proposes. No government will do anything that isn't > in some way in its own interest, or what its officials can regard as > its interest. Governments don't do "good". They never have and never > will. The attempt to straighten out American diplomacy is complex and > difficult and necessary. But any attempt to straighten it out will > benefit from a more honest assessment than Bowman's. > > The American sanctions have not killed all those children in Iraq. > The sanctions were however a serious misjudgment that allowed a great > deal of suffering without accomplishing their end. They were aimed > to restrict Saddam Hussein's military capabilities by economic > constriction. But they underestimated Saddam's cynicism, his > ruthlessness and his intelligence -- his willingness to steal all the > resources generated by the oil he was allowed to sell, which were to > be used for the needs of the Iraqi population, for his personal and > military uses. He was willing to allow thousands of people to suffer > because he was aware that he could starve everyone in Iraq and that > Arab propagandists would blame all these collateral casualties on the > US and regard him as a long suffering hero. So, the U.S, once it > realized the failure of its policy, should have withdrawn the > sanctions and looked for other ways to destabilize the dangerous and > cruel and lethal Hussein. So more honestly stated, Saddam Hussein > killed all those people and dragged America in as a stupid accomplice > and fall guy. You will not hear that version from Bowman. You won't > hear it from the Arab world, or from kneejerk Americans leftists. As > for what America did in Iran in relation to Mossadegh and > installation of the Shah, it was a nasty piece of oil politics played > with the approval and diplomatic connivance of the other Western > powers. As to what the mullahs did in Iran after they overthrew the > Shah, it was a nasty piece of Arab fundamentalist extremism, that > might or might not have occurred if Mossadegh had taken power. If > there is a reasoned Arab or Islamic liberalism or conservatism,after > years of suppression, first by the Shah and then by the mullahs, it > isn't in a very good position to speak right now. At least not in the > Islamic countries. If we try to improve our relations with the more > secular contingents in Iran too openly, the mullahs will step in to > cause trouble as they have over the last five or six years in which > anti-extremism has gradually reappeared. There is probably no very > good policy to undertake in regard to Pakistan, except to move > cautiously. They have a military dictator with an atomic bomb. He is > currently our ally and is supported pretty much by the middle class > and opposed by an intense if not very large minority of Islamic > fundamentalist Pakistanis and Afghan immigrants, and he is conducting > an ongoing guerrilla war in Kashmir. Go figure your policy there. In > Afghanistan,there is a disastrous and repressive fundamentalist > government, such as it is, in whose nest there is a conspiratorial > network headed by Bin Laden. If we attack him and his network of > co-conspirators and in the course of things destabilize the Taliban, > we may be doing the helpless people of Pakistan some kind of favor -- > if we don't kill too many helpless civilians along the way. If we > don't attack him, we will lose helpless civilians. Pick your poison. > On the Israeli -- Palestine issue, It is hard to believe there will > be any solution that makes any sense with Sharon in power. Somehow > America has to convince an Israeli population, that already believes > the US is willing to sell them out for oil, that a serious resolution > of the settlement question and the creation of an integral > Palestinian state is the only way to arrive at a lasting peace. The > Israelis see themselves as the victims of an ongoing guerilla war, > the Palestinians see themselves as the victims of ongoing Israeli > aggression and state terror. What specific way to move here is not > obvious. Perhaps the good bishop has some answer, but I doubt it. I > haven't mentioned Syria or its client state Lebanon, but they > complicate matters also. My main point is that history is useless if > all you can use it for is confession of past guilt -- though it may > appeal to Catholics. > > Best > > David > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-xa03.mx.aol.com (rly-xa03.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.72]) > by air-xa03.mail.aol.com (v81.9) with ESMTP id MAILINXA39-1014205358; Sun, > 14 Oct 2001 20:53:58 -0400 > Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu > [128.205.7.57]) by rly-xa03.mx.aol.com (v80.21) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINXA310-1014205344; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:53:44 -0400 > Received: (qmail 2828 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 00:50:39 -0000 > Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) > by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 00:50:39 -0000 > Received: from LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU by LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 28498412 for > POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:50:35 -0400 > Approved-By: poetics@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Received: (qmail 14778 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 01:13:05 -0000 > Received: from mailbox4.ucsd.edu (132.239.1.56) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu > with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 01:13:05 -0000 > Received: from smtp.ucsd.edu (smtp.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.49]) by > mailbox4.ucsd.edu (8.11.5/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9B1D5620553 for > ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:13:05 > -0700 > (PDT) > Received: from [137.110.44.166] (antin.extern.ucsd.edu [137.110.44.166]) by > smtp.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14287 for > ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:13:02 -0700 > (PDT) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Sender: antin@popmail.ucsd.edu > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:14:26 -0700 > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Sender: UB Poetics discussion group > From: david antin > Subject: some discussion of the present situation > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:17:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Reply to Richard Tylr & Statement by Karlheinz Stockhausen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Richard, while I think I might be finding myself almost near a position to agree with some of your points, perhaps--the ones that gesture towards a larger critical-theoretical understanding of the present situation, so called, and the comments on capital's need for malleable labour--this attack on academics should be recast. I'd argue that individual scholars working within institutions are more fruitfully criticized point-by-point over their writing. Identifying the ideology at work in these institutions--and, in particular, the roles played by anti-capitalist academics--can't be done by simply pointing to salaries. The various positions within the insitution--professors, researchers, instructional staff, university and college boards and thier presidents, vice-presidents, deans, undergraduate, graduate, post-baccalaurate students, post-doctoral appointees, dozens of other types of professionals that work in health units, counselling centres, libraries, recreation departments, media relations, publishing operations--aren't usefully subsumed into the bourgeoisie. The functions or effects of these positions need to be articulated in detail, with reference to the social totality, and can't be glossed only in terms of the tradition of bourgeois philosophical thought. Doesn't Stockhausen's remark cling to that tired old notion of individual genius in the work of art? Aaron Vidaver PS--I recommend against taunting Repressive State Apparatuses, even on a literary electronic list like this one--it's really not worth the possible consequences if you have no university or other institutional support for financing legal defenses! Source: http://www.stockhausen.org/message_from_karlheinz.html Professor Karlheinz Stockhausen 51515 Kürten GERMANY Message from Professor Karlheinz Stockhausen After returning from Hamburg I find false, defamatory reports in the press. I am as dismayed as everyone else about the attacks in America. At the press conference in Hamburg, I was asked if MICHAEL, EVE and LUCIFER were historical figures of the past and I answered that they exist now, for example Lucifer in New York. In my work, I have defined Lucifer as the cosmic spirit of rebellion, of anarchy. He uses his high degree of intelligence to destroy creation. He does not know love. After further questions about the events in America, I said that such a plan appeared to be Lucifer's greatest work of art. Of course I used the designation "work of art" to mean the work of destruction personified in Lucifer. In the context of my other comments this was unequivocal. I cannot find a fitting name for such a "satanic composition". In my case, it was not and is not my intention to hurt anyone. Since the beginning of the attack onward I have felt solidarity with all of the human beings mourning this atrocity. Not for one moment have I thought or felt the way my words are now being interpreted in the press. The journalist in Hamburg completely ripped my statements out of a context, which he had not recorded in its entirety, to use it as a vile attack against my person and the Hamburg Music Festival. This whole situation is regrettable and I am deeply sorry if my remarks were misconstrued to offend the grieving families of the brutal terrorist attacks on New York City and Washington D.C. I will continue to keep the victims of this outrage in my prayers Karlheinz Stockhausen September 19, 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:54:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: on what to call them In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20011012095424.00ad9828@mail.verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >George-- > >The US and its media is not supposed to use Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The two >bomb droppings would incriminate the US. Thus, we continue to hear of Pearl >Harbor. > >--Ak > >At 05:25 PM 10/9/2001, you wrote: >>For those who are looking for a new vocabulary to describe the events of >>September 11, might I suggest the words "Hiroshima" and "Nagasaki"? >> >>Also, the words of Celan come to mind again: >> >>Ein Droehnen: es ist die Wahrheit selbst >>unter die Menschen >>getreten, >>mitten ins >>Metaphergestoeber. >> >> >>George Thompson I believe the USA killed 100,000 at Hiroshima; likely a similar number at Nagasaki. These numbers so far surpass the 5-7,000 dead in the WTC murders, that I would hesitate yo apply either Japanese place-name to this instance of massacre. I mistrust such tampering. It suggests a sense of proportion reduced to impotence through crisis. We who are still alive ought to be very careful not to equate two planes-ful of passengers flown into twin towera packed with workers, with hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered by two bombs flung at their cities. I say nothing about motive in either case : I assume the same error on either side, that there is an end that justifies these means. I hope we don't get told a lot more of that. One other point : I have thought a lot about one post to this List, whose I forget, that pointed out that Islam is approximately 15 hundred years old. We might consider what Xtianity meant in 1500 A.D.: Hanging, drawing and quartering; burning at the stake;beading : these horrors inflicted ipon fellow-xtians, often in part as a public entertainment. Islam has had as yet no Age of Reason, whose enlightenment abolished these indulgences, through more sophisticated, unpublic means of minatory extermination. I'm aware that our Age of Reason leads by one route to Hiroshima. It is dangerous to wake up a sleepwalker--and everyone in the past looks like a sleepwalker. But I wander. It is difficult to name fear when it's here. It's like a giant egg has been broken, whoae poisonous yolk ia flowing all over. It's also like being at a party where drukenness tears comity to shreds. We have to sober up, it's necessary to sluice off contamination. This may not prove possible. And remember, for all WW2 did to reduce the population of the planet, much of it is horribly overcrowded and underfed. Can we start here, do more about this? Erst kommst die Fressen, dann komst die Moral -- apologies for likely misquoting Brecht. David ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:17:35 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: Rehm & O'Leary in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pam Rehm & Peter O'Leary reading at Harold Washington Library, 400 South State Street, Chicago Chicago Authors Room, 7th Floor Saturday, October 27, 1:00 PM sponsored by Chicago Poetry Project ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:36:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: involvement/action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thank you Walter Lew for those very disturbing articles. Dear Hassen, as for involvement/action -- outside of poetry -- it's hard to see my way clear -- I am doing the same things I always do, only more so, reading and listening and trying to keep up with my own thoughts and have some relation with my feelings, and attempting to write things that might matter at all. Karen and Ratapallax person (Rem?), I plan to look into poets4peace, but to be honest I am really quite disappointed with the work of Janice Mirikitani and L. Ferlinghetti that appeared in this Sunday's SF Chronicle, and with the work of most of the "regular joes" who also had their poems appear there. Mirikitani's in particular was a huge drag -- doctrinaire and ordinaire plus narrative and repetitive in the most unmoving way. Easy. Easy as her pose in her photo. Once the makeup's on, there ya go. Not fair, but still. Ferli's was simply surreal and boyish as per. Perhaps I didn't hope for any more from him, from either of them, but still it was disappointing. No wonder "people" think poetry is pious and irritating. Or sweet and "uplifting". Hassen, what are you doing? I ask for guidance. I continue trying to keep a spot open for other ways with language at SPT. I donate more money than I think I can afford to SPD. I sign petitions that I have not much hope for. I wrote to Barbara Lee. I let the girl at the cafe tell me how stupid she thinks the protestors are to say it's a racist war. I have nothing to say. Not that quickly. Thank you Gwyn and Geraldine for your comments on cultural relativism re the Taliban. It remains extraordinary to me that the issue of sexism is so much harder for people to grasp than the issue of racism. But I think I know why -- intimacy. I once said, how could we have allowed them to do this to us? (Meaning our brothers, fathers, sons in a patriarchy) and a Jewish friend said, it's just like the Holocaust, neighbor against neighbor. But it's closer than that, and that is what makes it so hard to negotiate. Maybe. Molly Ivins had a good piece about International Law also on Sunday. A young woman reporter from Salon.com was featured on a local TV show reporting over the phone from Afghanistan, about sitting with grandmas and mullahs alike -- she was unrushed in her reportage, much to the chagrin of her host. The grandmas she talked to were anti-US and semi-pro-bin Laden. So what can you say? That whole village murdered. Well, no doubt I've said both too little and too much. Elizabeth Treadwell "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans Willard Trask) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:37:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: ny times: Power of Poetry to Console In-Reply-To: <006901c1536b$1d3fa180$a22437d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >, "the job of the poet has become > > more and more marginalized," said Bob Holman, a poet who has been involved >> in the spoken word movement, an effort to take poetry down from its >> pedestal. The poet has become "the player of words," he said, engaging >> mostly in high-level language games. >> >> But changes are occurring, said Mr. Holman, ever hopeful, "as our culture >> listens to language artistically and poetry becomes more democratized and >> participatory." >> >> He quoted from a poem by William Carlos Williams: "It is difficult/ to get >> the news from poems/ yet men die miserably every day/ for lack/ of what is >> found there." >> >> "I think we are fulfilling William Carlos Williams's poem," Mr. Holman >said. >> "We are finding the news in poetry." > > > > >Bob Holman, who does more than many to put a quart into a pint pot, >is sometimes a victim of his own enthusiasms. Here, while he echoes >Williams in saying that "we are finding the news in poetry," he elides the bit about "it is difficult." This difficulty that poetry variously presents is necessary. Otherwise, it would be easy. It is built in, s part of the thing a poem is. It is too bad that this scares people off.It is too bad that people expect a quick, easy solution to the problem of being alive. Thwy might try suicide. But the learning of a poem is how one cxomes to read it. "Poetry is the theory of heartreak." We're all going to die. One wonders whether those "high-level language games" to which he takes exception are simply more of a difficulty to Bob than he xan undertake: I daresay I know some poems rhat fall under the umbrella of his distaste, poems that have meant a lot to me--that havw kept me alive. Are we all looking for an easy fix? Well yes--and no. I miss the "no" in Bob's reassuring letter. David. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:04:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: 2 or three things In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >James Cook, > >Yes, the Andrew Sullivan piece is called The Agony of the Left. His website >must title the "lead" (or most recent) piece with the same HTML name, then >switch when it goes into the archive. Sort of a dumb way to run a web site. > >David Bromige, > >That Brandeis student who started that petition has lost her email >privileges there as thousands of responses brought the school's server to >its knees and also violated school regs re spam. > >Ron > > > >Ron Silliman ron.silliman@gte.net > >rsillima@hotmail.com > >DO NOT RESPOND to >Tottels@Hotmail.com >It is for listservs only. >ron--thanks for the heads up. it came too late; david antin's >forwarding had already destroyed my email. yet his were only the >finest of motives, which under other circumstanxes, ahould go w/o >saying. fortunately, I had backup and thus am able to speak to you >(and 900 others, thanks to yr e-mail set-up) once more. First spam I >tasted since WW2, when my mother fried slices of it to aid the >growing boy. love, david > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:13:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: Sircam In-Reply-To: <000401c15588$ff1712e0$8a1a86d4@overgrowngarden> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Be warned > >In the last 12 hours I have had over a dozen messages from "Kathy" trying to >give me Sircam > > Lawrence,Sircam can be deadly. But I think you should offer to meet >her. take along some french letters. opportunity knocks! > >D >--------------------------------------------------- >I disassociate myself from the bombing of Afghanistan by UK government. >Those responsible should be tried for murder >--------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:11:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** Paul AUSTER, George Oppen Memorial Lecture, Thurs Oct 18, 7:30 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable P O E T R Y C E N T E R 2 0 0 1 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents The George Oppen Memorial Lecture in Twentieth Century Poetics PAUL AUSTER Thursday October 18 7:30 pm, $7 donation Special Location @ ODC Theater (3153 17th Street at Shotwell) Call ODC Box Office (415) 863-9834 to reserve tickets. Limited seating available! ** Note: SFSU Students & Poetry Center members can be admitted free, but must call to reserve a seat & appear 15 minutes prior to show time to claim that seat. ** PAUL AUSTER, from his early friendship and correspondence with the late Objectivist poet George Oppen, to his essays on Oppen's poetry and on the poetry of Oppen's friend and contemporary Charles Reznikoff (collected in The Art of Hunger), has brought a sharp, attentive eye and unusual insight to the task of recognizing and naming the rare value to be found in these writers' works. Mr. Auster, visiting from his home in Brooklyn, New York, will be addressing the extraordinary lyric work of Charles Reznikoff-"a poet of the eye," as he noted concisely in his essay "The Decisive Moment"-for The Poetry Center's 17th annual Oppen Memorial Lecture. Celebrated internationally for his eight novels and several films, including Smoke and The Center of the World (both with Wayne Wang), he has written several volumes of poetry, including Disappearances: Selected Poems, half a dozen acclaimed translations from French (Joseph Joubert, Mallarm=E9, Philippe Petit, Maurice Blanchot, Pierre Clastres), and edited the remarkable Random House Book of Twentieth-Century French Poetry. "This tree in the twilit street - the pods hang from its bare symmetrical branches motionless - but if, like God, a century were to us the twinkling of an eye, we should see the frenzy of growth." -Charles Reznikoff (cited in "The Decisive Moment") Call the theater for tickets: 415-863-9834. THE ODC THEATER is located at 3153 17th St at Shotwell in the Mission District cheap, secure parking in the lot across 17th from 16th St. BART walk one block east to S. Van Ness, one block south & 1/2 block east on 17th =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D COMING UP: for details http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit October 15 Lawrence Ferlinghetti: Benefit for Poetry Center @ Club Fugazi, call 415-421-4222 for tickets. October 18 Paul Auster: George Oppen Memorial Lecture @ ODC Theater, call 415-863-9834 for tickets. October 25 Bill Berkson & Vincent Katz October 27 Mark Nowak & Allison Hedge Coke November 2 Bernadette Mayer & Jack Collom November 10 Alice Notley November 29 Pierre Joris =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D READINGS that take place at The Poetry Center are free of charge. Except as indicated, a $7 donation is requested for events off-campus. SFSU students & Poetry Center (with exception of October 15th Benefit Reading featuring Lawrence Ferlinghetti) get in free. All Poetry Center events are videotaped and made available to the public through our American Poetry Archives collection. The first Complete Catalog in over a decade detailing available Archives tapes will be published in late 2001, including videos from 1974 forward, and audiotapes dating from the early years of The Poetry Center , from its founding in 1954 through the early 70s. MEMBERS WILL BE MAILED A FREE COPY OF THE CATALOG ON PUBLICATION. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., as well as by the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:33:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: October 28 Reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For some time now, I've felt very lucky to see Beth Bosworth's fiction straight off the pen or the keyboard, as it were, and so I feel privileged to read with her at Walter Rossi Gallery, 231 Eldridge Street between East Houston and Stanton, on Sunday, October 28, at 5:00 p.m. The reading is free and the furniture gallery is extraordinary. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:38:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: on what to call them MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, this may be the first time that it has ever happened, but I think that David Bromige has missed the IRONY in my post. To talk about scale: At Hiroshima, about 130,000 died or were seriously damaged; another 176,000 were left homeless. That means that we are talking about maybe 85% of the population of the entire city. Ten square kilometers were completely destroyed; that means that something like 68% of all of the buildings in the city were utterly destroyed and another 24% were damaged: we're talking about 92% of the physical structure of this city. Nagasaki: 60,000 dead or seriously injured. One third of the cty destroyed, about five square kilometers. These people were incinerated in fireballs very much like those that incinerated the 5,000 to 7,000 in NYC and the Pentagon. In comparison, how many city blocks does 'ground zero' make up? My point? Do you really think that my point is to equate the lives of some 200,000 Japanese with the lives of some 5,000-7,000 so-called Americans [see Bowering's objections to this terrm], thus reducing the value of the Japanese lives over against those American ones? Not at all my intention, not at all. How does one measure degrees of incineration? No, It was the same utterly unspeakable experience for each and every one of these sad, poor, victims, [each one of them like you or me in every way] ,as it is also for every single Afghani victim., BTW. Look, go ahead. Incinerate the Taliban and the Al-Qaeda network, and Bin Laden, if in fact they are responsible for these atrocities. My Buddhist compassion cannot save them at this point, anyway, as I damn well know. But I see no good reason for incinerating Afghanis -- children, women, old men, even young macho men -- who had absolutely nothing at all to do with these monstrous actions. And I see no good reason for turning this into an utterly hopeless war between Islam and the Christian West., which is what all of this will turn out to be. Because everybody, I MEAN EVERYBODY, including those of us who are neither Christian or Muslim or Jew, will lose out in the end. And David Antin professes to be tired of the likes of me. Well, I truly hope to grow so old and so tired some day. Maybe the young then will put up with me, as we should put up with him. George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 02:38:47 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: ny times: Power of Poetry to Console MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David. I agree with this. Difficulty, complexity, subtlety, intelligence, even seeming "heartlessness" and love of language, its complexities and nuances such as you and Marjories Perloff (she supported) and others like Charles Bernstein and hundreds of other poets initiated in the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E movment are essential. Holman would be one of these "street poets" who think that an engineer should never study any maths - my only support of his ilk might be my veiled crit. of David Antin (but that is separate from my fascination with Antin's works: we need his "talk poems" and any thing else he can do) (his views on the S11 situation but courage to him for expressing those views) but let this also be said: many people who have or are practising and writing beautiful AND difficult OR simple - if you like - poetry as is relevant to their practice, have also worked (literally) a low paid jobs and even if not cannot be accused of not being in "the real world" ...I was greatly impressed by Robert Creeley when he came here as a man and as a poet and a raconteur and his wide experience of the world poets and people ...(my jibe against "accos" was maybe a bit unfair there...but I was "making a point" as they say). Give me complexity and obscurity (which often generates "beauty" ) before dull and often misleading transparancy. Charles Bernstein puts it well in his discussion of the degrees of artifice and the degrees of resistance and absorbtion. I can be as "consoled" or as "engaged" into enthusiasm by any style of a poem from Keats to anything in "In The American Tree"...as to complexity my old mother (who was a very gentle and compassionate being who would be very angry with some of the crazy things I have been saying on this list and so she should)(who also loved crime novels but read about 8000 novels of a very wide range of styles into her late seventies, in her "hobby" which she recorded - I mean she recorded about that many titles in a book in alphabetical order) read a novel by Paul Auster (which I havent even read), "Hunger" by Knut Hamsen (discussed by Paul Auster in his book "introduced" to me through Scott Hamilton's essay in a Salt issue (the Auckland Salt)), Umberto Eco, and some other "difficult" "postmodernist" or "challenging" writers such as Camus's "The Outsider", "A Hundred Years of Solitude", Calvino (I'm sure she would have had a go at Perec as she loved puzzles ) and others - although she read little poetry and and no interest in poetics as such. A local organiser of "street poetry" and so on is keen on Language poetry as well as he is promoting the "telll it from the hip stuff" ... so Holman is the more (if this is a clear picture of his thinking) restricted or less catholic than those he or others more of his stamp who would call for, you've heard it before: "Poems from the heart." Sincerity, integrity, and thought and maybe even craft(!) yes: but save me the ubiquitous and hammering heart: to the degree that a poem is heartless it is intelligent...which intelligence modifies and enlightens and enhances the emotional force that energises the poem of whatever "school" or style. We cant abandon complex thought or a language innovation and play because of a war on an abstract noun! Why not forbid peole making jokes or children from: "playing stick-boats in Winter's gutter" ? Alan Curnow may have "diseapeeared in the middle of winter (war?)" but we as (other) poets must write on - good or bad however you define... That is the least that we can do: and we cant be restricted in style or content by anyone.Our politics and poetics and thinking must be rich and various and compassionate and uncompassionate and irritating and absurd and dark and complex and simple and crazy and rational and elliptical and fantastic and cool and multiplex in meanings and evocations and connotations....when so prescribed but never proscribed. NO RESTRICTIONS. The poet must say: "I make the world, for the world makes me." Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bromige" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 11:37 AM Subject: Re: ny times: Power of Poetry to Console > >, "the job of the poet has become > > > more and more marginalized," said Bob Holman, a poet who has been involved > >> in the spoken word movement, an effort to take poetry down from its > >> pedestal. The poet has become "the player of words," he said, engaging > >> mostly in high-level language games. > >> > >> But changes are occurring, said Mr. Holman, ever hopeful, "as our culture > >> listens to language artistically and poetry becomes more democratized and > >> participatory." > >> > >> He quoted from a poem by William Carlos Williams: "It is difficult/ to get > >> the news from poems/ yet men die miserably every day/ for lack/ of what is > >> found there." > >> > >> "I think we are fulfilling William Carlos Williams's poem," Mr. Holman > >said. > >> "We are finding the news in poetry." > > > > > > > >Bob Holman, who does more than many to put a quart into a pint pot, > >is sometimes a victim of his own enthusiasms. Here, while he echoes > >Williams > in saying that "we are finding the news in poetry," he elides the bit > about "it is difficult." > > This difficulty that poetry variously presents is necessary. > Otherwise, it would be easy. It is built in, s part of the thing a > poem is. It is too bad that this scares people off.It is too bad that > people expect a quick, easy solution to the problem of being alive. > Thwy might try suicide. > > But the learning of a poem is how one cxomes to read it. "Poetry is > the theory of heartreak." We're all going to die. One wonders whether > those "high-level language games" to which he takes exception are > simply more of a difficulty to Bob than he xan undertake: I daresay I > know some poems rhat fall under the umbrella of his distaste, poems > that have meant a lot to me--that havw kept me alive. > > Are we all looking for an easy fix? Well yes--and no. I miss the "no" > in Bob's reassuring letter. > > David. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 03:14:21 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Reply to Richard Tylr & Statement by Karlheinz Stockhausen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron. I'm not neccessrily opposed to individual genius. But I was "spear thrusting" I just have a sense that certain academics are "in a vacuum" but see my post to in reply to David Bromige...I agree with much you say. Look: if we are to fear legal action then we are all "knackered". We fear any reprisal and we then cannot fight or struggle against wrongs. Look: as to finance I owe money: years ago someone (some Insurance company tried to get cash off me but I simply wrote them a letter explaining that I had no money in the bank!) Imagine the political victory: "Fifty Three Year Old Man in Auckland who is a Sickness Beneficiary and Who's Son's Eye was Smashed Out by the New Zealand Police and Who was Battened in the Face and Nearly Killed (Possibly by the Notoriously Vicious Red Squad who it is Well Known Also Nearly Killed "The Clowns") in 1981 in Protests Against the Springbok Tour (from South Africa) and Who Lives Alone with a Cat in a Broken Down Old State House on about NZ$150.00 per week Income Taken to Court by Bush Administration for Taunting and Expressing Unusual or Unsettling and Subversive and Dangerous Ideas : New Zealand's "safe" and "green clean image" Under Attack.Terrorism Spreads to "Quiet" Old New Zealand"...I rest my case for now: but I am interested in your other points: I'm not anti academics, just like to keep peole on their toes: i like David Antin's work and his "talk Poems"...but see my response to David Bromige. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Vidaver" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 5:17 AM Subject: Reply to Richard Tylr & Statement by Karlheinz Stockhausen > Richard, while I think I might be finding myself almost near a position to > agree with some of your points, perhaps--the ones that gesture towards a > larger critical-theoretical understanding of the present situation, so > called, and the comments on capital's need for malleable labour--this attack > on academics should be recast. I'd argue that individual scholars working > within institutions are more fruitfully criticized point-by-point over their > writing. Identifying the ideology at work in these institutions--and, in > particular, the roles played by anti-capitalist academics--can't be done by > simply pointing to salaries. The various positions within the > insitution--professors, researchers, instructional staff, university and > college boards and thier presidents, vice-presidents, deans, undergraduate, > graduate, post-baccalaurate students, post-doctoral appointees, dozens of > other types of professionals that work in health units, counselling centres, > libraries, recreation departments, media relations, publishing > operations--aren't usefully subsumed into the bourgeoisie. The functions or > effects of these positions need to be articulated in detail, with reference > to the social totality, and can't be glossed only in terms of the tradition > of bourgeois philosophical thought. > > Doesn't Stockhausen's remark cling to that tired old notion of individual > genius in the work of art? > > Aaron Vidaver > PS--I recommend against taunting Repressive State Apparatuses, even on a > literary electronic list like this one--it's really not worth the possible > consequences if you have no university or other institutional support for > financing legal defenses! > > > > Source: http://www.stockhausen.org/message_from_karlheinz.html > > Professor Karlheinz Stockhausen > 51515 Kürten > GERMANY > > Message from Professor Karlheinz Stockhausen > > After returning from Hamburg I find false, defamatory reports in the press. > > I am as dismayed as everyone else about the attacks in America. > > At the press conference in Hamburg, I was asked if MICHAEL, EVE and LUCIFER > were historical figures of the past and I answered that they exist now, for > example Lucifer in New York. > > In my work, I have defined Lucifer as the cosmic spirit of rebellion, of > anarchy. He uses his high degree of intelligence to destroy creation. He > does not know love. > > After further questions about the events in America, I said that such a plan > appeared to be Lucifer's greatest work of art. Of course I used the > designation "work of art" to mean the work of destruction personified in > Lucifer. In the context of my other comments this was unequivocal. > > I cannot find a fitting name for such a "satanic composition". In my case, > it was not and is not my intention to hurt anyone. Since the beginning of > the attack onward I have felt solidarity with all of the human beings > mourning this atrocity. > > Not for one moment have I thought or felt the way my words are now being > interpreted in the press. > > The journalist in Hamburg completely ripped my statements out of a context, > which he had not recorded in its entirety, to use it as a vile attack > against my person and the Hamburg Music Festival. > > This whole situation is regrettable and I am deeply sorry if my remarks were > misconstrued to offend the grieving families of the brutal terrorist attacks > on New York City and Washington D.C. I will continue to keep the victims of > this outrage in my prayers > > Karlheinz Stockhausen > September 19, 2001 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:55:07 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "l][m][att][r][ice" Subject: _This Cybagenic Lattice_ Comments: To: list@rhizome.org, spectre@mikrolisten.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" . .. . . . . .. A c][r][][ab-like][yst][al][ repeating. . . . . In disarray, a molten swathe of n.ter.face][s][ts mimic simul.crated spaces. In describing, yr structure is musty, n.distinguishable from the mas][ticated][s, a graphic urn of circuitry rust. In b.tween][ning][, pat.turns of repetition ][like looped n.testinal lattice][ is in ][& of][ IT.s][h][ell.f repeated ][the uni.f][r][ied cell][. .. . .. . . . . .. . . .A most fungalmental repetition property. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . ... . .. . This Cyb.age.nic Lattice in its ][& of IT.self][ ubersymmetry. We n.itially shrink ourselves ][in][2 3 di][ce][mensions. 4 ][si][m.plicity, 3 types r coded: .C.quential. . .Replification. . . .Helix. .C.quential: U perceive & reproduce via regular successions. No gaps allowed. No m.maginative rigor. U may ][& will][ b visualized like this. U represent a sell][out][.F - the human unit of repeditive n.elasticity. [4 e.e.g, u r 1 of the sell.Fs. if u look out, u c the same reflective sell.Fs @ 0, 90, 180, & 270 d.grees because a c.quential repeats itself @ predicable ][culturally-d.][greed n.tervals. . .Replification: U repeat consistently. U r not able 2 distinguish successive patternings ][@ 0 and 180 cultural d.gree][d][s][. U find replification easier than advancing. U m.ulate. U ][re][produce as if it were progressive. . . .Helix: U spiral and poll][inate][ute. U.re c.oiled c][ultural][entrics reorder & re.route. U burn the sell.F. U.re c][h][ells can traverse the vir][mens][t][r][ually & geocentrically g][l][athered. . .. . . . . .. If the helix s.][c][el][l][ves were seen in ultradimensions, they would completely fill the Cybagenic & Ge][c][o.d.fined Lattrix. . .. . . . . .. . . .... ..... net.wurker][mez][ .D][N][str][Act][uct.clarity.goes.here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 02:33:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r....the holy trinity...tenure...sabbaticals .u. grants... Usually realiable Arabic sources have informed us how delighted they are with their campaign to target u. intellectuals and poets. By choosing the most resentful, least worldly and the most need attention driven class, they have hit a home run. A little $$$ schmeared goes a long way with these poor in spirit. They see it as just as a matter of time till the poi$on of the sipping bee-mouth spreads into the larger society. Honeyed words...lies lies & damned lies... spreading self-doubt....DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:16:39 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on what to call them MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David. You make one common error here: the assumption that the world is overcrowded. This is a common myth that is perpetuated because like eg any other assumption we "take for granted" it is repeated over and over. The assumption behind this statement is that the world's problems have a relation ( more or less directly) to the total number of people on the planet. In either a functioning Capitalist or let's suppose some more advanced system that is more efficient in economic terms: there is always,always has been, a surplus of production. In fact the major capitalist nations dump millions of tons of surplus product to maintian price levels. I have no problem with that except that it "should" or those products could be used to assist the less advantageous; but the economic problems under present capitalism are complex so I wont go down that path....but if you look at eg population density around the world it is fact that the nations - in the main - that are the most densely populated are the most prosperous. However that doesnt mean that increasing that density automatically increases produtivity or prosperity. But the point is that it is a fact that there can be too few people: and such places as the Sudan and other sparsely populated areas are or can be very poor. The well being of the earth is a function not of its total population (at this stage ) but in fact of the way in which labour and technology are organised. In India one cause of massive poverty was the fact that farms were (and maybe still are) divided into relatively small and inefficient economic units. Another factor there is that, like some of the Western antions, India has/had a large number of landlords and very rich people who are exploitative of farmers:in addition certain places wee and maybe still are empploying workers on such low wages that they begin to starve for lack of cash in the midst of what is quite a prosperous place (potentially) - as they did in England and other countries at various times in history - other things such as the enormous cost of the British army in that country, the disruption of what for hundreds (maybe thousands ) of years the East including India had a very efficient and productive system of canals and trade routes and irrigation which has fallen into disuse: China, while not being vastly rich, has LESS economic hardships for the average individual. As to China : if you study the areas and the corresponding areas of land that is productive the same or equivalant area of Europe and part of Western Russia is probably as heavily and densely populated as China. In fact for China to advance it is not neccessarily a good thing to reduce her total population. What is done there is that less assistance is given to families with more than one or two children: no one is actually imprisoned or is there any drastic action against people who have larger families. The question that should be asked: what is too many? How is that computed? The answer is that there is neither too many people or too few. Some people feel better about wars and car accidents because they are obsessed that the world is "horribly overpopulated" ... but that idea has been around for about 50 years. There may be an optimum number: but what is that? People have fewer children in more prosperous countries fewer die and people live longer but the fact is that the productive power of modern industrial and farming methods and the earth's resources are so great that it is not a problem "to feed more hungry mouths" ...the problems to be worked on are political, hence organisational,hence cooperatrional, and sociological and so on. As to resources it is known that Siberia (for eg.) has billions of tons of oil 'locked" (for now) under the ice...its only a matter of time before that will be used. The problems or difficulties include some local high density of populaton - although that is mostly insignificant - religious fanaticism of various kinds, economic inequalities, mis-organisation and allocation of resources, ignorance, language and cultural differences, warmongering and on and on...not overpopulation: that is a myth. All that aside, I found this post by you very interesting. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bromige" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 10:54 AM Subject: Re: on what to call them > >George-- > > > >The US and its media is not supposed to use Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The two > >bomb droppings would incriminate the US. Thus, we continue to hear of Pearl > >Harbor. > > > >--Ak > > > >At 05:25 PM 10/9/2001, you wrote: > >>For those who are looking for a new vocabulary to describe the events of > >>September 11, might I suggest the words "Hiroshima" and "Nagasaki"? > >> > >>Also, the words of Celan come to mind again: > >> > >>Ein Droehnen: es ist > die Wahrheit selbst > >>unter die Menschen > >>getreten, > >>mitten ins > >>Metaphergestoeber. > >> > >> > >>George Thompson > > I believe the USA killed 100,000 at Hiroshima; likely a similar > number at Nagasaki. These numbers so far surpass the 5-7,000 dead in > the WTC murders, that I would hesitate yo apply either Japanese > place-name to this instance of massacre. I mistrust such tampering. > It suggests a sense of proportion reduced to impotence through > crisis. We who are still alive ought to be very careful not to equate > two planes-ful of passengers flown into twin towera packed with > workers, with hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered by two > bombs flung at their cities. > > I say nothing about motive in either case : I assume the same error > on either side, that there is an end that justifies these means. I > hope we don't get told a lot more of that. > > One other point : I have thought a lot about one post to this List, > whose I forget, that pointed out that Islam is approximately 15 > hundred years old. We might consider what Xtianity meant in 1500 > A.D.: Hanging, drawing and quartering; burning at the stake;beading : > these horrors inflicted ipon fellow-xtians, often in part as a public > entertainment. Islam has had as yet no Age of Reason, whose > enlightenment abolished these indulgences, through more > sophisticated, unpublic means of minatory extermination. > > I'm aware that our Age of Reason leads by one route to Hiroshima. It > is dangerous to wake up a sleepwalker--and everyone in the past looks > like a sleepwalker. But I wander. It is difficult to name fear when > it's here. It's like a giant egg has been broken, whoae poisonous > yolk ia flowing all over. It's also like being at a party where > drukenness tears comity to shreds. > > We have to sober up, it's necessary to sluice off contamination. This > may not prove possible. And remember, for all WW2 did to reduce the > population of the planet, much of it is horribly overcrowded and > underfed. Can we start here, do more about this? Erst kommst die > Fressen, dann komst die Moral -- apologies for likely misquoting > Brecht. > > David > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:31:17 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: women/freedom (was totally tasteless) Riichard Resigns:checkmated. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth etal. Of course it is: what do I know? My daughters dont listen to their silly old dad and my ex wife never listened when she WAS my wife. What do I know about the world or women? I get instructions from my daughter (the 23 year old baby) who is even less tolerant than you of this old fat misery gut's ramblings!!! But of course...here I go again...the Northern lot are not very friendly to the idea of women being free etc..... Look: one of the things that terribly saddens me is that when my mother was 80 she was in tears to a social helper about something in her life: she had come from England and boarded in a schol in Melbourne (Australia) where she played the piano and went to church (even though she didnt believe in anything per se) just to be able to play the church organ. Then when she came to leave school my grandfather, (who wasnt really a bad man but probably thought he was "saving her"), refused to assist her into a music school: her love and passion was the piano and I remember her playing and us children listening and then sometimes all of us singing at the piano before the curse of televison....somewhat it was her "programming" that prevented her from rebelling per se (and I know that my own daughters never took any notice of my "instructions" if I gave any....I'm no King Lear, you see...as to the Big Bad Him Taleban: God knows, the world's crazy...what do I know? We need love and compassion. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 10:50 AM Subject: women/freedom (was totally tasteless) > Richard, I'll grant you women (and, hey, all of us,) in the US are not as > free as we might tend to imagine we are. > However the problem rests in your hypothetical theatre of the other -- > playing at some international roundtable of cultural comparison, you write > "we" vis a vis "our women". Look dude, I'll agree with you the thing is > complicated, and raise you -- it's WAY more complicated than anyone using a > (generic, esoteric) male "we" is gonna grasp. > > > > Elizabeth Treadwell > > http://www.poetrypress.com/avec/populace.html > > > "I protest against being kept in irons and chains." -- Joan of Arc (trans > Willard Trask) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:08:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: ny times: Power of Poetry to Console In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I wanted to write a poem that you could understand . . . but you've got to try hard -- which is, I suppose, why Billy Collins is Poet Laureate and why Williams never got to assume the position! At 03:37 PM 10/15/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>, "the job of the poet has become >> > more and more marginalized," said Bob Holman, a poet who has been >> involved >>> in the spoken word movement, an effort to take poetry down from its >>> pedestal. The poet has become "the player of words," he said, engaging >>> mostly in high-level language games. >>> >>> But changes are occurring, said Mr. Holman, ever hopeful, "as our culture >>> listens to language artistically and poetry becomes more democratized and >>> participatory." >>> >>> He quoted from a poem by William Carlos Williams: "It is difficult/ to get >>> the news from poems/ yet men die miserably every day/ for lack/ of what is >>> found there." >>> >>> "I think we are fulfilling William Carlos Williams's poem," Mr. Holman >>said. >>> "We are finding the news in poetry." >> > >> > >>Bob Holman, who does more than many to put a quart into a pint pot, >>is sometimes a victim of his own enthusiasms. Here, while he echoes >>Williams >in saying that "we are finding the news in poetry," he elides the bit >about "it is difficult." > >This difficulty that poetry variously presents is necessary. >Otherwise, it would be easy. It is built in, s part of the thing a >poem is. It is too bad that this scares people off.It is too bad that >people expect a quick, easy solution to the problem of being alive. >Thwy might try suicide. > >But the learning of a poem is how one cxomes to read it. "Poetry is >the theory of heartreak." We're all going to die. One wonders whether >those "high-level language games" to which he takes exception are >simply more of a difficulty to Bob than he xan undertake: I daresay I >know some poems rhat fall under the umbrella of his distaste, poems >that have meant a lot to me--that havw kept me alive. > >Are we all looking for an easy fix? Well yes--and no. I miss the "no" >in Bob's reassuring letter. > > David. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " chaos is not our condition." --Charles Olson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:25:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: Fwd: reading at the Dante Center Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Dante Alighieri Society >Pirandello Lyceum >Circolo Letterario di Boston > >present >An Evening of Poetry >Joeseph Torra >Michael Franco >Raffael De Gruttola >Vincent Ferrini >7:30 pm. Monday October 22, 2001 >free with light refreshments >Dante Alighieri Society Building >41 Hampshire St. [Kendall Square] Cambridge, MA >617-876-5160 ><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard Senior Production Coordinator The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:05:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Story of the Rays MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - The Story of the Rays There are many kinds of Rays in the world. It is Rays from our eyes that give us the gift of sight. Without the Rays, we could never see anything! The Rays are heated by the sun and make everything visible. That is why you can see things when the sun is out, because the Rays are hotter then. Rays from our ears go in search of things to hear. When they find these things, they touch them softly and the things will say things to the Rays that will take them into the ears. These Rays are different from the Rays from our eyes because these Rays go back and forth with sound. It's "how we hear." There are Rays from our nose that are like straws or open canals, no one knows. These bring chemicals into our nose and guide our sneezing. They go searching everywhere for chemicals. When they find them they bring them into our nose. There are Rays for every pore in our skin and these are amazing because they are shaped like tiny cones and they look for things to touch and when they find them they will take them back into the touching-area of the skin. All of these Rays are going back and forth all the time. There are Rays from our vaginas and penises that take chemicals and look for Rays coming from our noses and when they find them, they send the chemicals into the nose Rays, which are sometimes like open canals, and gravity keeps the chemicals in place as they rise to the nose. There are Rays we find "troubling" from our anuses which come from a very old time more than a hundred years ago when said where our farm was by the smells we left on fenceposts and wagonwheels, and these Rays would go into the nose through the nose Rays that were like straws and kept the smell so some could say if they could speak back then and they couldn't, that yes, this was where someone was growing corn and sheep. But the most important Rays are those from our mind which go out in search of God and bring Him back to us, and God smiles on these Rays which are everywhere, if we only know how to look with the Rays from our eyes and the Rays from our ears. For the Rays from our mind are always in search of higher truth, if we only know how to understand them. We shall look within ourselves to know so many things, if we will only be quiet and listen to the Rays from our mind. These are indeed "The Story of the Rays." = ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:13:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Belladonna* OCT NYC In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please pardon any double post, and please come, spread word, free chapbooks promised: The BELLADONNA* Series presents the October reading: Translating Between Poem and Prose Friday, October 26, 7:00 p.m. Lila Zemborain, Rosa Alcala and Aja Couchois Duncan The reading will take place at Bluestockings; New York’s only all women’s bookstore, located at 172 Allen Street, between Rivington and Stanton on the Lower East Side. We begin with a fifteen minute open reading. For information and directions, call 212-777-6028. *** Lila Zemborain is an Argentine poet who has lived in New York since 1985. Her third book "Guardianes del secreto" is forthcoming from Editorial Tsé-Tsé in Buenos Aires. She is the author of the poetry collections, "Abrete sésamo debajo del agua" (Buenos Aires, Ultimo Reino, 1993) and "Usted" (Buenos Aires, Ultimo Reino, 1998), and the chapbooks "Germinar" (Buenos Aires, 1983) and "Ardores" (Buenos Aires, 1989). She has translated a collection of poems by Barbara Guest into the Spanish. As a critic of Latin-American literature, she has written a book-length essay "Una mujer sin rostro", on the poetry of Chilean writer Gabriela Mistral, and completed essays on contemporary Latin American poets such as Alejandra Pizarnik, Cecilia Vicuña, Mercedes Roffé and Arturo Carrera. She is the director of Rebel Road. Rosa Alcalá has translated El Templo (Situations Press, 2001 ), Cloud-net (Art in General, 1999), and Word & Thread (Morning Star Publications, 1996)--books of poetry by Cecilia Vicuña. Her translations of poems by Lourdes Vázquez and Lila Zemborain can be seen on the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church website. Rosa's own poems have recently appeared in Chain and The World. She is currently pursuing a PhD in English at SUNY-Buffalo. She co-curates ñ: poesía y crítica en la SUNY-Búfalo/ A Non-unilingual Reading Series. Aja Couchois Duncan lives in the Santa Cruz Mountains where she lives in fear of hiting a deer while driving the endless road to her house. Otherwise she writes and engages in other unsavory activities. Her work has been published in-print in Clamour, Five Fingers Review, Fourteen Hills, Mirage/Period(ical), Prosodia, Mungo vs. Ranger, San Jose Manual of Style, Superflux, Tinfish and Transfer, and on-line at Blithe House Quarterly, How2, and Narrativity. *** http://www.durationpress.com/belladonna "Brother, if you don't mind, there is a cloud of glass coming at us, grab my hand, lets get the hell out of here." -Anonymous ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:47:00 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Applications for Writers Residencies invited for 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi there, Why this would come to someone living on an island in the North Atlantic is anyone's guess. Maybe the local writers alliance listserve that this is from is on some sort of island exchange list. It may be of interest though. Cheers, Kevin -----Subject: LCP: Fwd: Applications for Writers Residencies invited for 2002 (fwd) >Please circulate by email to membership asap. > >>Tasmania is the Island of Residencies in 2002! >> >>The Tasmanian Writers Centre is pleased to announce even more >> >>Writers Residencies in Tasmania for Australian & International writers in >>2002. >> >>Following the interest and success of the Hobart City Residencies in 2000 >>& 2001, the Tasmanian Writers' Centre has confirmed support from a number >>of agencies to establish the Island of Residencies initiative. >> >>The Tasmanian Writers' Centre invites Australian writers living in any >>Mainland State or Territory to apply for one of more of the following >>Writers Residencies. Each of the Residencies will be for 3 weeks and are >>located throughout Tasmania. >> * The Bridport Writer s Residency on the north-east coast of Tasmania >> (March 2002) >> * The Burnie City Writer s Residency on the north-west coast of >> Tasmania (March May 2002) >> * The Hobart City Writers Residencies at the Kelly Street Writers >> Cottage, Battery Point, for one interstate and one international writer >> (March Nov 2002) >> * The Hydro Tasmania Writer s Residency, in the village of Wayatinah, >> near Tasmania s central plateau (March April 2002) >> * The Meander Valley Residency for a Children s writer (March May 2002) >> * The Parks & Wildlife Services Writer s Residency, for a writing who >> deals with environmental issues in his/her writing, at either Lake St >> Clair or Cradle Mountain in Tasmania (April May 2002). >>The winner of each Residency will be provided with: >> * Return economy airfare from their home airport to Tasmania; >> * 3 weeks accommodation at the place of residence; >> * A cash contribution of $400 towards living expenses relating to the >> Residency; >> * Payment of $400 as a Fee for each workshop developed and delivered >> to emerging and/or developing writers (note the Writer in Residence may >> be required to conduct up to two workshops during the Residency). >>The winner of each Residency will be required to: >> * Acknowledge the support of the Tasmanian Writers' Centre and the >> respective sponsoring agency in any publication or production arising >> from work undertaken or completed, in full or in part, during the >> successful applicant's residency in Tasmania; >> * Make him or herself available on at least one occasion, if required, >> at an event to be specified by the agency supporting the particular Residency; >> * Conduct up to two writing workshops, one in the host location, and a >> second in a location elsewhere in Tasmania >> * All amounts referred to here are payable in Australian dollars. >>Application Forms will be available on the TWC's website from 1 November >>2001, but until then for more information about the Island of Residencies ... >> >>Go to >>www.fearless.n et.au/taswriters/residencies-2002.htm >> >> >> >>Applications must be addressed to >> >>Joe Bugden, >> >>Director >> >>Tasmanian Writers' Centre >> >>1st floor, 77 Salamanca Place >> >>Hobart 7000 >> >>IMPORTANT >>Applications must be received by MONDAY 14 January 2002 Australian >>applicants must enclose one administration fee of $11 with their >>application. Note: Applicants may apply for one or more Residencies, but >>should ensure that their application contains information relevant to all >>Residencies applied for. Australian writers who have applied for a >>Residency through the Tasmanian Writers' Centre on at least 2 occasions >>previously are exempt from paying the Administration Fee. International >>applicants are exempt from having to pay the Administration Fee for those >>Residencies that invite international writers to apply. >>Cheers, >> >>Joe Bugden, >>Director, >>Tasmanian Writers' Centre >>77 Salamanca Place >>Hobart 7000 >> >>Ph/Fax: 61+3+6224 0029 >>ed_taswriters@trump.net.au >>www.fearless.net.au/taswriters > >Edita Petrauskaite-Page >Executive Director > >The League of Canadian Poets, 54 Wolseley St. Toronto, ON M5T 1A5, 416 504 >1657 fax: 416 504 0096 > >Visit Poetry Spoken Here Canadian Poetry Webstore at www.poets.ca > >Students and teachers, find out everything you ever wanted to know about >poetry, talk with poets, read ezine on www.youngpoets.ca > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >League of Canadian Poets: http://www.poets.ca -- league@ican.net >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to 'majordomo@lights.com' with >'unsubscribe poets-list' in the body of the message. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:09:43 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sylvester Pollet Subject: Calvin Hernton, alas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "Calvin Hernton, a scholar, critic and poet whose work explored the terrain where American race relations collide with American sexual politics, died October 1 at his home in Oberlin, Ohio. He was 69." That's the first sentence from an obit in the NYTimes, by Margalit Fox. Maybe someone with the technology could post the whole thing--I think it was in Wed. Oct. 10. When Calvin & the Umbra writers would read at the Deux Megots in the early 60s it was a revelation. Sylvester ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:40:17 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" Subject: Tripwire 5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" TRIPWIRE 5: EXPANDING THE REPERTOIRE: CONTINUITY & CHANGE IN AFRICAN-AMERICAN WRITING now available - with essays, talks, poetry, prose, visual art, & discussion from: Will Alexander Wanda Coleman C.S. Giscombe Renee Gladman Erica Hunt Arnold J. Kemp Nathaniel Mackey Mark McMorris Harryette Mullen Julie Patton giovanni singleton Lorenzo Thomas 200 pages. $8 $15 two issue subscription (outside US, please add $2 per issue) TRIPWIRE: A JOURNAL OF POETICS c/o Yedda Morrison & David Buuck PO Box 420936 SF CA 94142 www.durationpress.com/tripwire yedd@aol.com also available through Small Press Distribution (spdbooks.org) ps-subscribers' copies are in the mail... also available: Tripwire 3 (Gender) Tripwire 4 (Work) $8 each see website for details on back issues and submission policies Deadline for submission to Tripwire #6 is Jan. 1, 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:57:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bruce andrews Subject: Reading Sun Oct 21 in DUMBO: Andrews, Child, Ragona, Wellman, Silvers Comments: To: imachell@newschool.edu, dmachlin@sapient.com, tarmac@pipeline.com, mmagee@english.upenn.edu, gotomallet@usa.net, bernadette_mayer@excite.com, mcnally@blast.net, tmediodia@aol.com, smesmer@earthlink.net, amobilio@earthlink.net, cmorrow@cmorrow.com, marc@admin.con2.com, ENauen@aol.com, pknaylor@impop.bellatlantic.net, jxn8@psu.edu, melneilson@earthlink.net, thearchercompany@yahoo.com, pneufeld@sapient.com, peterneufeld@yahoo.com, alone@nac.net, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, pomowen@ix.netcom.com, RonPadgettPoet@aol.com, brucep@bway.net, ParrasJ@wpunj.edu, perelman@dept.english.upenn.edu, patrick@netsense.net, wanda@interport.net, jmp@princeton.edu, kieron@earthlink.net, ts20@columbia.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi. Asked to curate a reading as part of the DUMBO Festival at this new gallery, I put together Sunday night's lineup: Abigail Child, Melissa Ragona, Mac Wellman, Sally Silvers, and myself. Be great to see you. Bruce Andrews metaphorcontemporary art a new gallery in DUMBO Brooklyn TARGET="_blank">www.metaphorcontemporaryart.com at the FIFTH ANNUAL DUMBO ART UNDER THE BRIDGE FESTIVAL OCTOBER 19 - 21 FESTIVAL OPENING PARTY: FRIDAY OCTOBER 19, 6-8pm poetic information Madelon Galland l Katie Merz l Judith Page l Janet Pihlblad Holly Sears l Paul Shore l Stephen Spretnjak l Mary Ting Charles Yuen gallery hours: friday 12 - 7, saturday, sunday, monday 12 - 6 pm FESTIVAL POETRY READINGS: Saturday, October 20, 8pm Andrea Carter Brown l Sharon Kraus Katie Johntz l Yerra Sugarman Sunday, October 21, 8pm Bruce Andrews l Abigail Child l Melissa Ragona Sally Silvers l Mac Wellman FESTIVAL OPEN STUDIOS: Saturday, October 20 & 21, 12-6pm Rene Lynch l Julian Jackson among hundreds of open studios throughout the dumbo neighborhood pick up a map at the gallery metaphorcontemporary art 70 washington street suite 1113 d.u.m.b.o.brooklyn, ny 11201 646.321.2370 TARGET="_blank">www.metaphorcontemporaryart.com check out our web site for more information and directions __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:36:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: need Steve McCaffery's email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, could someone please backchannel Steve McCaffery's email and/or snailmail address? I tried but my messages keep bouncing back. Thanks! Camille Camille Martin Lit City 7725 Cohn St. New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 861-8832 http://www.litcity.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:19:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: SPT presents Paula Gunn Allen and Stephanie Williams, Friday 10/19, San Francisc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Small Press Traffic presents Paula Gunn Allen & Stephanie Williams, reading Friday, October 19, 2001 at 7:30 p.m. Timken Lecture Hall, CCAC-SF One of the foremost scholars of Native American literature, Paula Gunn Allen's many books include the novel The Woman Who Owned the Shadows, the landmark critical work The Sacred Hoop: Recovering the Feminine in American Indian Traditions, and a new collection of essays, Off the Reservation. This year she has been honored with a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Native Writer’s Association for her groundbreaking work. Her latest book is Hozho: Walking in Beauty, an anthology of historical and contemporary stories by Native authors which she coedited. Originally from New Mexico, Allen has lived in California for many years and is Professor Emerita of English at UCLA. Poet and prose writer Stephanie Williams lives and works in New Orleans, Louisiana; her first collection is due out this year. Her writing is one of constantly mobile portraiture which illuminates and reanimates familiar narratives by inventing new versions. From "Drunkard’s Promise": "Won’t you tell me your name?/The resolution happens every verse/and it’s not/sun setting down/on western newborn town/there’s nothing going on/to choose." Williams has done critical work on Zydeco music as an American poesy; she studied at Naropa and was the featured author in Mungo vs. Ranger #1. $5-10 sliding scale, free to SPT members (no one turned away for lack of funds) Small Press Traffic events are presented in Timken Lecture Hall California College of Arts & Crafts 1111-8th Street San Francisco (near the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) 415-551-9278 for directions and more info, please see our website at http://www.sptraffic.org _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:51:01 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Truth Has Been Suspended. Indefinitely. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Truth Has Been Suspended. Indefinitely. This poem may reach the border of the unintelligible a black whole of what is beyond all sense and reason. In the deepest circle of hell there is an ice. An ice so dense and cold that one million tonnes of jet fuel couldn't catch a flame. An ice field of treachery the traitorous gnawing on each others' heads. And when we had left him in that icy bed I saw two frozen together in one hole So that the one head capped the other head And as starved men tear the bread this tore the poll Of the one beneath, chewing with ravenous jaws where the brain meets marrow, just beneath the skull That lake of ice has become the slick t.v. screen we skate and surf and click to try and leave our traces. Television light bombards us. Smarmy talking heads incite riots. Swarthy citizens take cover as dark skin means dark past. Some people have turned the melting pot on high. The bottom will burn while the top will bubble. An evil effervescence. Foaming it will seep out to singe the elements. You will notice the smell first. Then, a cloud of unknowing. As both poets and pilgrims our paths have been changed. Altered, delayed and re-routed. Even I am wondering about the fist in pacifist. Re-thinking my pilot plan. Just what does universal human suffrage mean any more? "Nuke the sand niggers" is one response. Whether over there (where ever there is), or down the street where your gas is pumped and news of the day is purchased. I'll have a Mars bar today to take me away from this planet where ice burns like the Infernal epicenter. But Mars is the god of war. Ground Zero. Common Ground. Zero Common Ground. Zero Intelligence. Channel 21 reminds me – yes, zero intelligence. So what? I zip through security at Pearson Airport with a Fruitopia and a frantic "can't miss my plane again" urgency. My bottle could have contained: whiskey: a certain fuel for air rage Some kind of acid: for a pilot's eyes Citrus Consciousness: a Coca Cola concocted cocktail for mass consumption smuggled under the rhetoric of "let's all get along"ness. Or even my own piss. The amber clarity of one hundred ales will not elucidate my emotions. I live and walk in this world and while every synaptic blip in my brain disagrees with the horrors of American foreign policy I still ache. I offer every acre of my soul to the family and friends to the constellations of sorrow for the messages left on answering machines for the man whose only hope now is that his unaccounted for daughter has been hit on the head with concrete and is wandering around not knowing where she is. I wonder if the blood lust will mellow I wander the streets and find a fellow traveler wanting to hurl a National Post box into our shitstream harbour. I want to scream. I want to sleep. I want to write a poem of redemption. But it's too early to tell. Kevin Hehir September 15,2001 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:32:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: new from Potes & Poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Potes & Poets Press is proud to offer the following newly released books as part of our continuing effort to bring publications into print that stretch the boundaries of language and literature. Frosted by Jack Kimball--74p/ 11.95 Frosted, writes Eileen Myles, “pushes the reader to fill in the dots. It's angled poetry, full of unwilling tears, abruptness.” Frosted is radiant with musical voices. “It's a very cool truth, a slow nostalgic ellipse…” as Eileen Myles elaborates. Tony Towle notes “mysterious ironies and enjambments, lines that are stunningly odd, and various kinds of oblique narrative that may owe something to 'language' influences, but are often also resonant of Jimmy Schuyler as well--while a good deal of humor--recherché, direct and occasionally zany--glints through it all.” An all round lovely and fresh performance. Podiums, Autobiographical Café Fictions, by Peter Ganick--328p / $14.95 A grand, intense tour-de-force from a prolific iconoclast of the poetry wars. “Ganick's podiums are not bully pulpits. Rather, they function as platforms for bop prosody torqued into Cecil Taylor's pianistic runs. As anti-diaries, they insist on being music instead of musings.”--Tina Darragh. “With dazzling amplitude Peter Ganick's writing spirals from high energy's direction until life speaks the instant as meditation. Here then, everything finds its way to the PODIUMS.”--Mary Rising Higgins. Written in a dense, streaming prose, Podiums is a meditation both secular and divine. It is writing to carry with you. Cover art developed from a painting by the author Conference by Stacy Doris--96p / $12.95 A comprehensively stunning book. Novel, play or poem, this landmark work jumps vividly to life with quirky invention, concentrated integrity and charming humor. Conference also teems with lyric passages: “Once there's an opening, there's absence. Departure. Open your mouth: you could walk through. The sky's an illusion and I'm perhaps legion. Yes or no. An opening is the nick of time, maybe, and clouds' job is to stave that off, in a huge collaboration with illusion. The sky is illusion: that's evident: agreed. This blinding is beauty's definition perhaps, and its reasons too.” The wildly improbable cover art (Audubon on mescaline?) is almost worth the price on its own. available thru Small Press Distribution, www.spdbooks.org, or directly from the publisher at www.potespoets.org Potes & Poets Press 2 Ten Acres Dr Bedford MA 01730-2019 emgarrison@earthlink.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:37:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Nicholas Zurbrugg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have just received the very sad news of the sudden death of Nicholas Zurburgg, from his student and friend at DeMontfort University, Nagy Rashwan. > > Dear Charles: > > It is my sad duty to inform you that Nicholas > Zurbrugg suffered a massive stroke and passed away > last night. It has been very hard for me to accept as > you can imagine. I am unable to contact many of his > friends in America and in canada. > > Thank you very much, > > Nagy. Nicholas Zurbrugg was the Director of Centre for Contemporary Arts and the editor and author of many books on performance art, multimedia, Beckett, Burroughs, Baudtrillard, sound poetry, electronic arts. For a long while he taught in Australia, where he edited Stereo Headphones. For more information, you can start at his university home page http://www.dmu.ac.uk/Faculties/HSS/English/Staff/zurbrugg.html I expect we will have more on Nick on this and other lists, from his many friends in the UK, US, Canada, and Australia. He was an exubertant man, and enthusiast for the art that he dedicated his life to supporting. He will be missed. Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:51:53 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: & Uses Everything Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit & uses everything From the top of the head To the tips of the toes Knows everything Comes thus every Thing goes LAM VAM YAM urges Digs for the root Knows the task to do Is just you Reuven BenYuhmin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:15:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Simon Rodia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed As a suddenly Pennsylvani'd Californian, I took particular joy in this morning's NY TIMES piece on the restoration of the Watts Towers -- this is my favorite paragraph (TAKE NOTE ALL RONALD JOHNSON READERS!): "Portions of a documentary on Rodia-- an Italian immigrant who spoke broken English that seemed inspired at times by the denser verses of Ezra Pound and at others by Abbot and Costello--were played at the opening ceremony, and they were most helpful, in a sense." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " chaos is not our condition." --Charles Olson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:37:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: ny times: Power of Poetry to Console ?Past glibness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think you are right, aldon. It might be time to move past glibness. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aldon Nielsen" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 8:08 AM Subject: Re: ny times: Power of Poetry to Console > I wanted to write a poem that you could understand . . . > > but you've got to try hard -- > > which is, I suppose, why Billy Collins is Poet Laureate and why Williams > never got to assume the position! > > > At 03:37 PM 10/15/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >>, "the job of the poet has become > >> > more and more marginalized," said Bob Holman, a poet who has been > >> involved > >>> in the spoken word movement, an effort to take poetry down from its > >>> pedestal. The poet has become "the player of words," he said, engaging > >>> mostly in high-level language games. > >>> > >>> But changes are occurring, said Mr. Holman, ever hopeful, "as our culture > >>> listens to language artistically and poetry becomes more democratized and > >>> participatory." > >>> > >>> He quoted from a poem by William Carlos Williams: "It is difficult/ to get > >>> the news from poems/ yet men die miserably every day/ for lack/ of what is > >>> found there." > >>> > >>> "I think we are fulfilling William Carlos Williams's poem," Mr. Holman > >>said. > >>> "We are finding the news in poetry." > >> > > >> > > >>Bob Holman, who does more than many to put a quart into a pint pot, > >>is sometimes a victim of his own enthusiasms. Here, while he echoes > >>Williams > >in saying that "we are finding the news in poetry," he elides the bit > >about "it is difficult." > > > >This difficulty that poetry variously presents is necessary. > >Otherwise, it would be easy. It is built in, s part of the thing a > >poem is. It is too bad that this scares people off.It is too bad that > >people expect a quick, easy solution to the problem of being alive. > >Thwy might try suicide. > > > >But the learning of a poem is how one cxomes to read it. "Poetry is > >the theory of heartreak." We're all going to die. One wonders whether > >those "high-level language games" to which he takes exception are > >simply more of a difficulty to Bob than he xan undertake: I daresay I > >know some poems rhat fall under the umbrella of his distaste, poems > >that have meant a lot to me--that havw kept me alive. > > > >Are we all looking for an easy fix? Well yes--and no. I miss the "no" > >in Bob's reassuring letter. > > > > David. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > " chaos > is not our condition." > --Charles Olson > > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:56:13 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Book- Taliban: Islam , Oil and the great new game In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >Pierre Joris wrote: >Ahmed Rashid's book _Taliban_ (Yale/Nota Bene, 2001)has excellent >chapters >on Oil in the new Great Game. In fact, this book is the best background >reading on the situation in Central Asia I have come across. this is also published by another company- London ; New York : I.B. Tauris, 2000. bests, kevin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:45:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Maxwell Subject: Philippe Beck and Guy Bennett @ Dawsons, 4pm Sunday! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Germ & the Poetic Research Bureau present Philippe Beck and Guy Bennett at Dawsons Book Shop, Sunday October 21 @ 4pm! *** Those who missed Jacques Darras' reading last Sunday at Dawsons missed = some truly transporting theatre. Breathy sweeping apologia for the song and Schwitters soundspeak that made the chairs creak by dint of the force majeure of an ur-speech not merely modern, to be sure. Though the day = is not done, audience and candidates! This weekend, the French gale sweeps = back. Or sweeps Beck? If I can recommend one French poet working today that you may have = never heard of but should hear forthwith yes immediately, it is Philippe = Beck. A poet of bright philosophic vectors and incalculable hallucinogenic = detail. A poetry of elaborate statement and formal derangement, mad only in the = scale of its endeavor. Beck could not be predicted in France, but he is with = us this Sunday, I guarantee it, and only the most timid among us will miss = him! Appearing with Beck is LA's pre-eminent tongue-twisting juggernaut, = poet and translator Guy Bennett. Agent, acrobat, key-bearer...how to explain a = man who has submitted Sergei Paradjanov, Hans Bellmer and Michel Leiris to = the Procrustean bed of translation, yet still finds time to write three collections of his own? Not to mention photographing all the bridges in Paris, designing countless Sun & Moon books and dropping bass trax onto = how many postpunk LA garage jazz recordings? Whoa! Remeber the titans, this Sunday! *** Philippe Beck is a poet, essayist and professor of philosophy from = Nantes, France. He is also arguably the most debated, talked about, cursed and celebrated poet currently operating on the French scene. In a short six years, he has published over ten books of poetry and philosophy, and launched two major literary journals. His recent works include Inciseiv (MeMo, Nantes, 2000), Derni=E8re mode familale, post-face by Jean-Luc = Nancy (Flammarion, 2000), Rude merveilleux (Al Dante, Marseille, 1998), and Po=E9sies didactiques (Th=E9=E2tre Typographique, Courbevoie, November = 2001). His first collection in English arrives at the end of this year from PRB = Folios. This is his first visit to the west coast. Guy Bennett is a poet and translator. He has been published in = magazines and anthologies in the US, France, Brazil and Italy. Recent work has = appeared in "La Polygraphe," "Sibila," "108," and "L'Anthologie 2000." Recent translations include Michel Leiris' Operratics, 2001, and Mostafa Nissabouri's Approach to the Desert Space, 2001. He is the author of = Last Words, 1998, The Row, 2000, and 100 Famous Views, 2001. *** Dawsons is located at 535 N. Larchmont Blvd between Beverly Blvd and = Melrose Blvd. Tel: 213-469-2186 Readings are open to all. $3 donation requested for poets/venue. Call Andrew at 310.446.8162 x233 for more info. *** The season continues: Oct. 21: Philippe Beck, Guy Bennett Oct. 28: Mark Nowak, Marty Nakell Nov. 11: Roberto Tejada, Kristen Gallagher Nov. 18: Prageeta Sharma, Katie Dagentesh Dec. 9: Charles Alexander, Kathleen Fraser But possible cancellations due to travel constraints & much else... ************************************************** Andrew Maxwell, gaslighter The Germ/Poetic Research Bureau 1417 Nolden St Los Angeles, CA 90042 "a dead romantic is a falsification" --Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:53:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: GIVE PEACE A CHANCE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mourn the Victims. Stand for Peace. Islam is not the Enemy. War is NOT the Answer. Today we are in a point in imbalance in the world and are moving toward what may be the beginning of a THIRD WORLD WAR. If you are against this possibility, the UN is gathering signatures in an effort to avoid a tragic world event. Please COPY this e-mail in a new message, sign at the end of the list, and send it to all the people whom you know. If you receive this list with more than 500 names signed, please send a copy of the message to: unicwash@unicwash.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on what to call them MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not tired of you George: but have a look at my reference to the book " The making of the Atomic Bomb" (Pulitzer) by Richard Rhodes: fascinating book. It was a different situation. Look no country's hands are clean: we all need to work on our heads. Antin is a very interesting and innovative poet and thinker: but he's buying into a lot of the right wing crap: incomparison the attack on the US was small bikkies: terrorism, or guerilla warfare, or whatever you call it is now seen - and will rightly and righteously continue - to be very effective against repressive and complacent regimes with immense power and military might and who attack and bully other (usually immensly impoverished) nations. The actions of Bush will increrase terrorism in the long run: Blair seems to be attempting to help the situation in Palestine but Sharon is not helping. I think Blair, on those occasions when he "climbs down a bit", has a few clues. Maybe the world will see that the deep causes that motivate anger and retaliation are now needing to be analysed and addressed. Dont buy into Antin's panic..unless he's an agent of the right wing...who knows? Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Thompson" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:38 PM Subject: Re: on what to call them > Well, this may be the first time that it has ever happened, but I think that > David Bromige has missed the IRONY in my post. > > To talk about scale: > > At Hiroshima, about 130,000 died or were seriously damaged; another 176,000 > were left homeless. That means that we are talking about maybe 85% of the > population of the entire city. Ten square kilometers were completely > destroyed; that means that something like 68% of all of the buildings in the > city were utterly destroyed and another 24% were damaged: we're talking > about 92% of the physical structure of this city. > > Nagasaki: 60,000 dead or seriously injured. One third of the cty destroyed, > about five square kilometers. > > These people were incinerated in fireballs very much like those that > incinerated the 5,000 to 7,000 in NYC and the Pentagon. In comparison, how > many city blocks does 'ground zero' make up? > > My point? Do you really think that my point is to equate the lives of some > 200,000 Japanese with the lives of some 5,000-7,000 so-called Americans [see > Bowering's objections to this terrm], thus reducing the value of the Japanese > lives over against those American ones? Not at all my intention, not at all. > > How does one measure degrees of incineration? No, It was the same utterly > unspeakable experience for each and every one of these sad, poor, victims, > [each one of them like you or me in every way] ,as it is also for every > single Afghani victim., BTW. > > Look, go ahead. Incinerate the Taliban and the Al-Qaeda network, and Bin > Laden, if in fact they are responsible for these atrocities. My Buddhist > compassion cannot save them at this point, anyway, as I damn well know. > > But I see no good reason for incinerating Afghanis -- children, women, old > men, even young macho men -- who had absolutely nothing at all to do with > these monstrous actions. And I see no good reason for turning this into an > utterly hopeless war between Islam and the Christian West., which is what all > of this will turn out to be. Because everybody, I MEAN EVERYBODY, including > those of us who are neither Christian or Muslim or Jew, will lose out in the > end. > > And David Antin professes to be tired of the likes of me. > > Well, I truly hope to grow so old and so tired some day. Maybe the young > then will put up with me, as we should put up with him. > > George Thompson > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:57:57 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Poem 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Poem=20 knuckles of irrelevance. he examined the map of = veins. the roaring back and = forth. who got down and stared. =20 the fingers crooked crookedly. bubbles bubbleate in the bright light's fate =20 who she why she what she. I stand by the stone=20 whisper weaving gaudy cross references sculptured in death shape how the water how the night=20 how the inconsequence of stone: the magic of treelessness... =20 None knows the way back - and who knows who knows? =20 The axe was brutal. =20 The queerlight shivers with naked dipthongs. =20 =20 =20 Richard Taylor. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:09:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: New from Avec Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New From Avec Books Flesh and Bone Stories Cydney Chadwick (winning manuscript of the 1998 New American Fiction Series Competition, selected by Douglas Messerli) In an earlier era, these mesmerizing vignettes might have been termed "character studies," although that same era might have banned them for their subversive and off-beat fixations. "Character," in Chadwick's writing, usually reveals itself through the filter of simple actions (sneaking into a church, returning to a childhood home) or the filter of objects (an eyelash trapped under a contact lens, an inferior lithograph given as a gift). However, these filters never entirely obscure another character, Chadwick's narrator, who slowly reveals her iconoclastic = views on art, politics, sex and the after-effects of 60's California culture. Fully cognizant of Bataille, Beckett, and the French "New Novel," these contemporary fables put "character" in quotation marks while continuing, = by a sidelong movement, to unveil it. List Price $14 * 185 pgs. * ISBN: 1-880713-28-4 * Available from Small Press Distribution. Thanks to Jerrold Shiroma, Avec Books has a newly designed website. For additional information ( excerpts, blurbs, etc.) for this and two forthcoming titles, please check: www.poetrypress.com/avec ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 22:47:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kerri Sonnenberg Subject: need Jen Hofer's email In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello, Could someone please backchannel with Jen Hofer's email address? Thanks! -Kerri ------- Kerri Sonnenberg Conundrum magazine http://www.conundrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:23:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Truth Has Been Suspended. Indefinitely. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii TO: Ms. Amber Dorko Stopper Founder, Tarot Special Interest Group of American Mensa Editor, nightrally.org Dear Amber, I have urgent concerns about the suppression of truth in New York City. On Sunday, September 16th, I was coming back from a visit to Jersey (for the twins' 40th birthday party), and, time on my hands, curious to be in Times Square (near Port Authority Bus Station, whence I was returning) with the crowds so thinned by the tourist exodus, I moseyed about. There, at curbside, was a Tarot reader set up at one of those small, foldable metal tables suburbanites use for setting up small household parties in converted "rec room" basements,--- and her client. I stood to watch. The cards talready spread out on the table seemed odd: The World, the four of Wands (or whichever shows that chuppah wedding canopy), The Lovers, etc. . . . There was something about so many pastelle hues that seemed an unfamiliar chromatics, Rider deck. HER TECHNIQUE FOR TURNING OVER THE CARDS: She had a curious way of drawing her cards. The table (and now it begins, dream-like, to seem not a 'burbs party foldable at all) had two little compartments, and she kept half a deck in each, switching from one to the other. She would turn over a single card and hold it in her hand, and she and the client would lean over the card while the reader interpreted it. She sort of cupped her hand around the card, though, as if concealingit, and was either whispering or straining to be heard above the din of diminished traffic. DIALOGUE: And then she turned to me: "I'm sorry," the psychic said. "But she" (the client) "would like us to be left alone." By now I'd figured it out the omission. "Where are the ~Swords!?"~ I asked, forcefully, in what the composer Ralph Buxton (publisher of Notre Dame Choir Editions, known for his reconstruction of an incomplete six-part Robert Parsons polyphony) has described as my "ominous tone." "What have you done with the Swords?!" And I said to the client: "She's hidden a quarter of the deck!" She should pay only 75% of the fee. (Or 75%, less the fraction for the ratio of Major Arcana.) The signifiers for all sorrows, care, misfortune, friction, challenges, unpleasantness, had been taken out of that deck, Amb'! Certainly no Tower, either, nor Death, to be sure. ------------------------------------------------------- I walked on. There was sightseeing to be enjoyed. The hustler in the classical disco ball tinsel proscenium male strip tease burlesque a few blocks uptown perplexed with his own curious politicality. An "Osama - Public Enemy # 1" shirt had already hit the Times Square street vendors' wares. This particular "boy" appeared, pro forma, for the opening, strip tease portion of his performance, still dressed in the trousseau of "straight-acting" street clothes they somehow select for themselves: Timberland boots, jeans, belt, gradually revealed CKs, whatever, . . . But, here's the shocker: he had on one of the "Osama - Public . . ." t-shirts! Anaphrodisiacal. The mainly silver-haired clientele all but gasped. They (we, salt-'n'-pepper myself) must have at least undergone a simultaneous, collective inhalation that could unanimously be sensed, heard at some low decibel frequency not drowned out by the piped-in dance music, each dancer choosing his own recorded accompaniment (Am I correct that I've heard a House Music-ized version of Pachelbel's Canon?). Perhaps, of course, some panache of his good looks caused coincidental inhalation. --- Fortunately, the strictures of his terpsichore genre quickly shed the "# 1" shirt, and the second half of the expressionistic choreography, whew, is always reserved for the "boy's" reappearance, fully naked. ------------------------------------------------------- I thought this especially important to report about the missing Swords, Dork', because of something I'd recently read. Rick, "Aries Marine Bull-Pussy," in Zeeland, Steven, ~Military Trade~ (NY: Harrington Park Press/The Haworth Press, Inc., 1999), p. 170, generously blurbed by queer theorist (and writer on Proust, Carravagio) Leo Bersani: "Soldiers prefer rough, dirty stuff like . . . canvas wrestling. Sailors like slick things such as body-hugging nylon/lycra clothes . . . Airmen want everything suburban middle-class clean and bland . . . Marines are drawn to stretchy, sweaty, tightly enfolding things like leather and rubber. . . . Another odd note: In the symbology of the tarot deck, Swords (Air) are Air Force, Wands (Fire) are Marine Corps, Cups (Water) are Navy, and Pentacles (Earth) are Army, and each of the major Arcana has a military form." ------------------------------------------------------- But, God in God's infinite plenitude, even while information (truth) may be withheld on one front, it springs up elsewhere, like wildflowers. Recently received a mailed, postcard-type announcement from Teachers & Writers about their Adventures in Poetry unveiling, just past (I can't find the announcement at the moment, a pretty electric green color, a scarab-like cockroach silhouette perhaps a logo from that mimeograph era, early New York School AIP's design, . . . so I can't quote it verbatim). But at the bottom, the card read: "Epoisses cheese will be served." Usually, gourmands, most poetry announcements do not specify their grade of cheeses. (Epoisses: 4 - 5 inches in dimeter, reddish orange skin, gooey, from an affinement in Marc de Bourgogne, invented by 16th century Cistercian monks.) Luv, JJ P.S. While I was buying the twins their presents, I bought myself: Allen, Robert and Josephine Fulton, ~Mensa Presents MIGHTY BRAIN TEASERS~ (NY: Barnes & Noble Books, 1999), filled with "Brain Twisters," "Headscratchers" ("Which is the odd one out?"), "Super Sleuth," "Matchpoints," "Quick Wit," etc. And --- here's the thing, Stop': --- I'm not doin' all that great! Maybe you'd be available sometime to bus down not that The City's so enjoyable spacious and gimme Genius lessons sometimes, to bring me up to Headscratchers calibre. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 23:29:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: See Rangers for Hours Comments: To: ira@angel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please come and help us celebrate FENCE #8 and kick off our Western tour Monday, October 22nd, 7:30 pm Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West, 7th floor with past and present contributors Lee Ann Brown (poet) Kevin Killian (poet) and Wells Tower (fiction writer) Free admission with a little wine after discounted copies of Fence #8 on the premises ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 23:58:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Re: earlier petition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Guys: Just wanted to apologize for the last e-mail petition I sent out. Got several e-mails from friends wondering if it was legit and just got this info. from someone who checked it out: Hi Wanda, I hope you're well. Thanks for sending this message. I'm always a little skeptical of these email petitions, though, so I went to www.unicwash.org to see if there was any info. on it. Here's their statement: "We have received an overwhelming amount of emails as part of a petition -- generated by an unknown source -- urging the US and international community to refrain from going to war. While we were heartened by this effort, the United Nations Secretariat (to which we are employed) is an implementing organ for the actions and programs agreed upon and supported by its 189 Member States. Therefore, if individuals really want their voices heard by these decision-makers, they should contact their governments and mission to the UN to express concerns and views." The sentiment in the petition is right on but it's important that it get communicated to the right people and not be lost in cyberspace. Send the same message to Hillary Clinton, Charles Schumer, and George Bush directly. James -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:00:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cborkhuis@AOL.COM Subject: (no subject) Comments: To: andrewsbruce@netscape.net Comments: cc: bernstei@bway.net, aclibin@actorsccu.net, eberrigan@hotmail.com, YanBrailowski@diplomatie.gouv.fr, olivierbrossard@hotmail.com, leeann@tenderbuttons.net, cocodrilo@infohouse.com, Cartelld@aol.com, achild@mail.slc.edu, sclay@granarybooks.com, john@nylondesigns.com, bluesequin@earthlink.net, davies@is4.nyu.edu, jdavis@panix.com, timothy.davis@yale.edu, jderksen@mindspring.com, tomdev1@earthlink.net, mdurand@sprynet.com, robert.fitterman@nyu.edu, TALISMANED@aol.com, g_fuchs@hotmail.com, jofuhrman@excite.com, drewgard@erols.com, SGavronsky@barnard.edu, KirpalG@aol.com, timgriffin@mindspring.com, henning@mindspring.com, mitch.highfill@db.com, Lairdhunt@aol.com, jarnot@pipeline.com, kalleberg@morningred.com, Kimmelman@njit.edu, booglitnyc@excite.com, pompompress@yahoo.com, Annotate@aol.com, katy@bdwy.net, DCLEHMAN@aol.com, levitsk@attglobal.net, penwaves@mindspring.com, lungfull@interport.net, Llubasch@cs.com, dmachlin@interport.net, smesmer@earthlink.net, Roger6161@aol.com, amobilio@earthlink.net, pneufeld@sapient.com, ethanpage@hotmail.com, ts20@columbia.edu, prev@erols.com, raworth@dial.pipex.com, RT5LE9@aol.com, Drothschild@penguinputnam.com, dirkn@rcn.com, scharf-wolfe@att.net, shark@crols.com, sherryj@us.ibm.com, ricksnyder@hotmail.com, bstefans@earthlink.net, gps12@columbia.edu, thilleman@excite.com, morsepartners.@msn.com, cecivicu@rcn.com, Mac_Wellman@brown.edu, gw3@homemail.nyu.edu, rwolff@angel.net, JYau974406@aol.com, younggeoffrey@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STAY HOME & TUNE IN to the New York premiere broadcast of radio play "FOREIGN BODIES" By Charles Borkhuis Featuring Bill Raymond National Public Radio on WBGO RADIO 88.3 FM Thurday, Oct. 18 6:30-7:oo PM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 01:45:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r..definition...... Buddhist Compassion...the compassion for ALL sentient beings.... just as long as it's not the 'messy' person breathing, smelling & dead next to you......Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:12:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: depression these days MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was asked about depression bc and thought my answer might be useful to = others who know people that might be depressed about what's happening - " there's no easy answer to that one. it might help make it okay to seek = help if they realize that depression to some degree is 'normal' at the = moment? sometimes if you can get them to talk about what's going on = with them they'll start to realize by themselves - i find that often = when someone comes in I might ask if they think they're 'depressed' and = mention meds, they'll say 'no' but by the end of an hour they may have = changed their minds. another thintg you might try is to suggest they = write a poem about how they feel - putting feelings on paper seems to = have a powerful effect." tom bell =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:14:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: UN anti-war petition Comments: To: englfac@amethyst.tc.umn.edu, engltchr@amethyst.tc.umn.edu, engrad-l@amethyst.tc.umn.edu, creativeadj@amethyst.tc.umn.edu, compedspec@amethyst.tc.umn.edu, lyxish@hotmail.com, manowak@stkate.edu, gfcivil@stkate.edu, edcohen@rci.rutgers.edu, oconn001@amethyst.tc.umn.edu, reiner@cats.ucsc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > As a result of the day of terror on Tuesday September 11 and that left > > the Twin Towers of New York and the Pentagon of Washington D.C. > > destroyed the United States may be about to declare war. The New York > > Times stated that, because the attack it is not only against the U.S.A. > > but against all of civilization, ".. It is necessary to identify to the > > countries that support the terrorist movements because it is there that > > the true war will be directed." > > > > The chief of the Arab newspaper Al-Quds, with headquarters in London, > > said that the Islamic terrorist Ussama Bin Laden had had noted three > > weeks ago that it planned to carry out "an important" attack against > > American interests. > > > > Karen Huges, who advises President Bush, assured us at a press > > conference that the country has the means to guarantee national > > security. What the U.S.A may feel compelled to do may result in very > > lamentable reprisals against the Islamic world. > > > > However, the state of Alert that United States maintains, is not without > > good reason. The American people are very indignant and are requesting > > justice somehow... and a reprisal for their dead siblings. > > > > Today we are in a point in imbalance in the world and are moving toward > > what may be the beginning of a THIRD WORLD WAR. > > > > If your are against this possibility, the UN is gathering signatures to > > avoid this tragic world event. Please COPY this e-mail in a new message, > > sign at the end of the list, and send it to all the people that you know. > > > > If you receive this list with more than 500 names signed, please send a > > copy of the message to : > > > > unicwash@unicwash.org > > > > > 000001&a=c2 > > > > 2efadf5ca80b31c2414e90f2fa29dc&mailto=1&to=unicwash@unicwash.org& > > msg=MSG1002 > > > > Even if you decide not to sign, please consider forwarding the petition > > on instead of eliminating > > > > > > 2) Laurence COMPARAT, Grenoble,France > > > > 3) Philippe MOTTE, Grenoble, France > > > > 4) Jok FERRAND, Mont St Martin, France > > > > 5) Emmanuelle PIGNOL, St Martin d'Heres,FRANCE > > > > 6) Marie GAUTHIER, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > 7) Laurent VESCALO, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > 8) Mathieu MOY, St Egreve, FRANCE > > > > 9) Bernard BLANCHET, Mont St Martin,FRANCE > > > > 10) Tassadite FAVRIE, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > 11) Loic GODARD, St Ismier, FRANCE > > > > 12) Benedicte PASCAL, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > 13) Khedaidja BENATIA, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > 14) Marie-Therese LLORET, Grenoble,FRANCE > > > > 15) Benoit THEAU, Poitiers, FRANCE > > > > 16) Bruno CONSTANTIN, Poitiers, FRANCE > > > > 17) Christian COGNARD, Poitiers, FRANCE > > > > 18) Robert GARDETTE, Paris, FRANCE > > > > 19) Claude CHEVILLARD, Montpellier, FRANCE > > > > 20) gilles FREISS, Montpellier, FRANCE > > > > 21) Patrick AUGEREAU, Montpellier, FRANCE. > > > > 22) Jean IMBERT, Marseille, FRANCE > > > > 23) Jean-Claude MURAT, Toulouse, France > > > > 24) Anna BASSOLS, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > 25) Mireia DUNACH, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > 26) Michel VILLAZ, Grenoble, France > > > > 27) Pages Frederique, Dijon, France > > > > 28) Rodolphe FISCHMEISTER,Chatenay-Malabry, France > > > > 29) Francois BOUTEAU, Paris, France > > > > 30) Patrick PETER, Paris, France > > > > 31) Lorenza RADICI, Paris, France > > > > 32) Monika Siegenthaler, Bern, Switzerland > > > > 33) Mark Philp, Glasgow, Scotland > > > > 34) Tomas Andersson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 35) Jonas Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 36) Karin Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 37) Ake Ljung, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 38) Carina Sedlmayer, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 39) Rebecca Uddman, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 40) Lena Skog, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 41) Micael Folke, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 42) Britt-Marie Folke, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 43) Birgitta Schuberth, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 44) Lena Dahl, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 45) Ebba Karlsson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 46) Jessica Carlsson, Vaxjo, Sweden > > > > 47) Sara Blomquist, Vaxjo, Sweden > > > > 48) Magdalena Fosseus, Vaxjo, Sweden > > > > 49) Charlotta Langner, Goteborg, Sweden > > > > 50) Andrea Egedal, Goteborg, Sweden > > > > 51) Lena Persson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 52) Magnus Linder, Umea ,Sweden > > > > 53) Petra Olofsson, Umea, Sweden > > > > 54) Caroline Evenbom, Vaxj > > > > sica Bjork, Grimsas, Sweden > > > > 57) Linda Ahlbom Goteborg, Sweden > > > > 58) Jenny Forsman, Boras, Sweden > > > > 59) Nina Gunnarson, Kinna, Sweden > > > > 60) Andrew Harrison, New Zealand > > > > 61) Bryre Murphy, New Zealand > > > > 62) Claire Lugton, New Zealand > > > > 63) Sarah Thornton, New Zealand > > > > 64) Rachel Eade, New Zealand > > > > 65) Magnus Hjert, London, UK > > > > 67) Madeleine Stamvik, Hurley, UK > > > > 68) Susanne Nowlan, Vermont, USA > > > > 69) Lotta Svenby, Malmoe, Sweden > > > > 70) Adina Giselsson, Malmoe, Sweden > > > > 71) Anders Kullman, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 72) Rebecka Swane, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 73) Jens Venge, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 74) Catharina Ekdahl, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 75) Nina Fylkegard, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 76) Therese Stedman, Malmoe, Sweden > > > > 77) Jannica Lund, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 78) Douglas Bratt=20 > > > > 79) Mats Lofstrom, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 80) Li Lindstrom, Sweden > > > > 81) Ursula Mueller, Sweden > > > > 82) Marianne Komstadius, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 83) Peter Thyselius, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > 84) Gonzalo Oviedo, Quito, Ecuador > > > > 85) Amalia Romeo, Gland, Switzerland > > > > 86) Margarita Restrepo, Gland, Switzerland > > > > 87) Eliane Ruster, Crans p.C., Switzerland > > > > 88) Jennifer Bischoff-Elder, Hong Kong > > > > 89) Azita Lashgari, Beirut, Lebanon > > > > 90) Khashayar Ostovany, New York, USA > > > > 91) Lisa L Miller, Reno NV > > > > 92) Danielle Avazian, Los Angeles, CA > > > > 93) Sara Risher,Los Angeles,Ca. > > > > 94) Melanie London, New York, NY > > > > 95) Susan Brownstein , Los Angeles, CA > > > > 96) Steven Raspa, San Francisco, CA > > > > 97) Margot Duane, Ross, CA > > > > 98) Natasha Darnall, Los Angeles, CA > > > > 100) James Kjelland, Evanston, IL > > > > 101) Michael Jampole, Beach Park, IL, USA > > > > 102) Diane Willis, Wilmette, IL, USA > > > > 103) Sharri Russell, Roanoke, VA, USA > > > > 104) Faye Cooley, Roanoke, VA, USA > > > > 105) Celeste Thompson, Round Rock, TX, USA > > > > 106) Sherry Stang, Pflugerville, TX, USA > > > > 107) Amy J. Singer, Pflugerville, TX USA > > > > 108) Milissa Bowen, Austin, TX USA > > > > 109) Michelle Jozwiak, Brenham, TX USA > > > > 110) Mary Orsted, College Station, TX USA > > > > 111) Janet Gardner, Dallas, TX USA > > > > 112) Marilyn Hollingsworth, Dallas, TX USA > > > > 113) Nancy Shamblin, Garland. TX USA > > > > 114) K. M. > > > > man, Houston, Texas - USA > > > > 116) Laurie Sobolewski, Warren, MI > > > > 117) Kellie Sisson Snider, Irving Texas > > > > 118) Carol Currie, Garland, Garland Texas > > > > 119) John Snyder, Garland, TX USA > > > > 120) Elaine Hannan, South Africa > > > > 121) Jayne Howes, South Africa > > > > 122) Diane Barnes, Akron, Ohio > > > > 123) Melanie Dass Moodley, Durban, SouthAfrica > > > > 124) Imma Merino, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > 125) Toni Vinas, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > 126) Marc Alfaro, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > 127) Manel Saperas, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > 128) Jordi Ribas Izquierdo, Catalonia > > > > 129) Naiana Lacorte Rodes, Catalonia > > > > 130) Joan Vitoria i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 131) Jordi Paris i Romia, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 132) Marta Truno i Salvado, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 133) Jordi Lagares Roset, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 134) Josep Puig Vidal, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 135) Marta Juanola i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 136) Manel de la Fuente i Colino,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 137) Gemma Belluda i Ventura, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 138) Victor Belluda i Ventur, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 139) MaAntonia Balletbo, barcelona, Spain > > > > 140) Mireia Masdevall Llorens, Barcelona,Spain > > > > 141) Clara Planas, Barcelona, Spain > > > > 142) Fernando Labastida Gual, Barcelona,Spain > > > > 143) Cristina Vacarisas, Barcelona, Spain > > > > 144) Enric Llarch i Poyo, Barcelona,CATALONIA > > > > 145) Rosa Escoriza Valencia, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 146) Silvia Jimenez, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > 147) Maria Clarella, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 > > > > 148) Angels Guimera, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 > > > > 149) M.Carmen Ruiz Fernandez,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 150) Rufi Cerdan Heredia,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 151) M. Teresa Vilajeliu Roig,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > 152) Rafel LLussa, Girona,Catalonia,Spain=20 > > > > 153) Mariangels Gallego Ribo,Gelida,Catalonia=20 > > > > 154) Jordi Cortadella, Gelida,Catalonia=20 > > > > 155) Pere Botella, Barcelona,Catalonia(Spain)=20 > > > > 156) Josefina Auladell Baulenas,Catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > 157) Empar Escoin Carceller,Catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > 158) Elisa Pla Soler, Catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > 159) Paz Morillo Bosch, catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > 160) Cristina Bosch Moreno, Madrid(Spain)=20 > > > > 161) Marta Puertola > > > > n > > > > 163) Joaquin Rivera (Madrid) Spain > > > > 164) Carmen Barral (Madrid) Spain > > > > 165) Carmen del Pino (Madrid) Spain > > > > 166) Asuncion del Pino (Madrid) Spain > > > > 167) Asuncion Cuesta (Madrid) Spain) > > > > 168) Ana Polo Mediavilla (Burgos)Spain=20 > > > > 169) Mercedes Romero Laredo(Burgos)Espana=20 > > > > 170) Oliva Mertinez Fernandez(Burgos)Espana=20 > > > > 171) Silvia Leal Aparicio (Burgos)Espana=20 > > > > 172) Claudia Elizabeth > > > > 173) Federico G. Pietrokovsky(C.F.)Argentina=20 > > > > 174) Naschel Prina (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 > > > > 175) Daniela Gozzi (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 > > > > 176) Paula Elisa Kvedaras(CapitalFederal)Argentina > > > > 177) Antonio Izquierdo (Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > 178) Ana Belen Perez SolsonaValencia)Espana=20 > > > > 179) Paula Folques Diago (Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > 180) Nestor Alis Pozo (Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > 181) Rafael Alis Pozo (valencia) Spain > > > > 182) Isabel Maria Martinez(Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > 183) Cristina Bernad Guerrero(Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > 184) Iria Barcia Sanchez184) Elena Barrios Barcia. > > Uppsala.Suecia=20 > > > > 185) Illana Ortiz Martin.Munchen.Alemania=20 > > > > 186) Santiago Rodriguez Rasero.M=FCnchen.Alemania=20 > > > > 187) David Ag=F3s D=EDaz. Pamplona. Espa=F1a > > > > 188) Juan Luis Ibarretxe. Galdakao.E.H.=20 > > > > 189) Rub=E9n D=EDez Ealo. Galdakao. E.H. > > > > 190) Marcial Rodr=EDguez Garc=EDa. Ermua. > > > > 191) Imanol Echave Calvo. SanSebastian.Spain.=20 > > > > 192) Bego=F1a OrtizdeZ=E1rateLazcano.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Spain > > > > 193) David S=E1nchezAgirregomezkorta.Gasteiz.Euskadi. > > > > 194)Alberto Ruiz DeAlda.Gasteiz.Euzkadi > > > > 195) Juan Carlos GarciaObregon.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Espa=F1a > > > > 196) Jon Aiarza Lotina.Santander.Spain=20 > > > > 197)teresa del Hoyo Rojo. Santander. > > > > 198) Celia NespralGaztelumendi.Santander. Espa=F1a > > > > 199) Pedro Mart=EDn Villamor,Valladolid.Espa=F1a.=20 > > > > 200) Victoria Arratia Mart=EDn,Valladolid,Espa=F1a=20 > > > > 201) Javi Tajadura Mart=EDn,Portugalete,Euskadi.Spain > > > > 202)Lourdes Palacios Martin, Bilbao,Spain=20 > > > > 203) Jes=FAs Avila de Grado, Madrid,Espa=F1a=20 > > > > 204) Eva Mar=EDa Cano L=F3pez. Madrid.Spain=20 > > > > 205) Emilio Ruiz Olivar, Londres, UK > > > > 206) Maru Ortega Garc=EDa delMoral,CALAHORRA,ESPA=D > > > > > > > > 207) Juan Carlos Ayala Calvo, Logro=F1o,Spain=20 > > > > 208) Roc=EDo Mu=F1oz Pino, Logro=F1o, Espa=F1a > > > > 209) Ximena Pino Burgos, Santiago,Chile=20 > > > > 210) Roberto Saldivia Quezada, Santiago,Chile > > > > 211) Paola Gonzalez Valderrama, Santiago,Chile > > > > 212) Cesar Morales Pe=F1a y Lillo, Santiago > > > > 213) Denisse Labarca Abdala , Santiago,Chile > > > > 214) Mar=EDa Paz Gonz=E1lez Garay > > > > 215) Daniela Millar Kaiser, Santiago,Chile > > > > 216) Alvaro Wigand Perales, Valdivia,Chile > > > > 217) Gladys Bustos Carrasco, Quilicura,Chile > > > > 218) Patricio Criado Rivera, Quilicura,Chile > > > > 219) Carolina Aguilar Monsalve, Valdivia,Chile > > > > 220) Carmen Silva Utrilla, Madrid, Espa=F1a > > > > 221) Martha Yolanda Rodriguez Aviles,Queretaro,Mexico > > > > 222) LAURA RODRIGUEZAVILES,COZUMEL,QUINTANAROO,MEXICO=20 > > > > 223)KATIA HAHN , MERIDA, YUCAT=C1N > > > > 224) [Sofia Gallego] Mexicali, B.C. Mexico > > > > 225)BEATRIZ CASTA=D1EDA DE CLARIOND,Monterrey,M=E9xico > > > > 227) Roc=EDo S=E1nchez Losada, M=E9xico D.F. > > > > 228) Lorenza Estand=EDa Gonz=E1lez Luna, M=E9xico D.F. > > > > 229) Gabriel Gallardo D'Aiuto,M=E9xico D.F. > > > > 230) Jos=E8 Antonio Salinas, Monterrey, N.L., Mex. > > > > 231) Laura Cantu, Mty N.L., Mex > > > > 232) Jossie Garcia, Mty N.L Mex > > > > 233) Martha V=E1zquez Gonz=E1lez, Mty, N.L.; M=E9x. > > > > 234) Olga Moreno, Monterrey, NL, Mex > > > > 235) Mariana Camargo, Pto. Vallarta, Jal; Mex. > > > > 236) Alfonso Villa, Toluca, Mexico > > > > 237) Arturo Rodriguez Reyes, Toluca, Edo Mexico,MEXICO=20 > > > > 238) Fernanda Villela, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO > > > > 239) Pilar Jim=E9nez, Caracas, VENEZUELA > > > > 240) Erika Rovelo, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO > > > > 241) ALEJANDRO LECANDA, CIUDAD DE MEXICO, MEXICO > > > > 242) Gabriela Diaz de Sandi, Cd. Mexico, Mexico > > > > 243) Jorge Bustamante Orgaz, Ciudad de M=E9xico,M=E9xico. > > > > 244) Jos=E9 Bernardo Rodr=EDguez Montes, CiudaddeMExico,MExico=20 > > > > 245) Luisa Angela Ari=F1o Pel=E1ez. Ciudad deM=E9xico,MExico. > > > > 246) Ramses Ricardo Rios Zaragoza, CD de M=E9xico > > > > 247) Rosa Mar=EDa Lamparero. Ciudad de M=E9xico. > > > > 248) Margarita Palomares . Ciudad de M=E9xico. MEXICO > > > > 249) Carlos Anaya. MEXICO > > > > 250) Enrique Garc=EDa Menes > > > > 251) Loren Walker. United States > > > > a > > > > 252) Natalie Lutz - La Ville Du Bois, France > > > > 253) Melissa Iwai - United States > > > > 254) Yukako Sunaoshi, Auckland, New Zealand > > > > 255) Michael Neill, Auckland, New Zealand > > > > 256) Anna Wirz-Justice, Basel, Switzerland > > > > 257) Irving Zucker, Berkeley, USA > > > > 258) keith oatley, toronto, canada > > > > 259) bernard schiff, toronto, canada > > > > 260) David Rothberg, Toronto, Canada > > > > 261) harald ohlendorf, toronto, canada > > > > 262) Anna Johnson, USA > > > > 263) Rachel Johnson, USA > > > > 264) Wendy Adams, USA > > > > 265) Linda Brunner , USA > > > > 266) Agustina Gallegos, Hollister, USA > > > > 267) Jemila Dwyer, Seattle, USA > > > > 268) Karen Kuest, Seattle, USA > > > > 269) Jean Sack, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 270) Shamima Moin, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 271) Anand, Chennai, India > > > > 272) Enam Ul Hoque, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia > > > > 273) Musharraf H. Khan, United Arab Emirates > > > > 274) Zahid Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 275) Rahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 276) Zahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 277) Dina Mustary, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 278) Shaonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 279) Hemonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 280) Asif Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 281) Suman SMA Islam, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > 282) Meena Poudel, Nepal > > > > 283) Jyoti Sanghera, India > > > > 284) Ratna Kapur, India > > > > 285)Roshni Basu, India > > > > 286)Maitreya,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 > > > > 287)Dr Jayasree,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 > > > > 288) Deepa Nair, Trivandrum, India > > > > 299) Tapas Desrousseaux, Auroville, India > > > > 300) Mita Radhakrishnan, Auroville, India > > > > 301) Gayatri Taneja, Hyderabad, India > > > > 302) Lucia Volk, Cambridge, USA > > 303) Tom Conry, Portland OR, USA > > 304) Ann Conry, Portland OR, USA > > > > 305) Mike Jung, Seattle WA, USA > > 306) Marie Milsten Fiedler, MN, USA 307) Maria Damon, MN, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:28:07 -0400 Reply-To: dcpoetry@lycos.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dc poetry Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: POM2 release party! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear NYers, and those who might be in NYC on Oct. 29, please join us for the POM2 Magazine launch party at St. Mark's Church! Apologies to those on this list who are geographically unable to attend: POM2 Magazine Launch Party Monday, October 29, 8 PM The Poetry Project St. Mark's Church 131 E. 10th St. NY, NY Readers this evening are: Chris Jackson, Nashville; Jenn McCreary, Philadelphia; Carol Mirakove, Brooklyn; CE Putnam, Seattle; Gary Sullivan, Brooklyn. Hosted by the editors Allison Cobb, Jen Coleman, Ethan Fugate and Susan Landers and the series host Joanna Fuhrman. POM2, a new journal for poetry, seeks to foster poetic polylogue by printing poems that talk with one another. For the debut issue, the editors sought poems from poets willing to have their work responded to, altered, lifted, plagiarized, or transformed. In subsequent issues the magazine promises work that flirts with, stomps on, folds up, bosses around, takes liberties with, and generally engages with poems in previous issues. Magazines will be available at the reading. Subscriptions are $5/issue, 2 issues for $9. Please send checks payable to Susan Landers to Pom2, 227 Prospect Ave. #2, Brooklyn, NY 11215. To submit to Issue 2, send no more than 5 poems by January 15. Include in your submission 1. The title of the "source" poem(s) from Issue 1 2. Full contact information: phone, address, fax and email and 3. (Optional) a photo of yourself Submit electronically to: pompompress@yahoo.com Subject line: gravy PC or Mac attachments welcome Or mail to: Susan Landers, Pom2, 227 Prospect Ave. #2, Brooklyn, NY 11215 SASE required Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:00:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marc Couroux Subject: Anti-Americanism Comments: To: jfarah@idirect.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The New McCarthyism Charges of anti-Americanism are themselves anti-American By George Monbiot Guardian 16 th October 2001 If satire died on the day Henry Kissinger received the Nobel Peace Prize, then last week its corpse was exhumed for a kicking. As head of the United Nations' peacekeeping department, Kofi Annan failed to prevent the genocide in Rwanda or the massacre in Srebenica. Now, as Secretary General, he appears to have intepreted the UN charter as generously as possible to allow the attack on Afghanistan to go ahead. Article 51 permits states to defend themselves against attack. It says nothing about subsequent retaliation. It offers no licence to attack people who might be harbouring a nation's enemies. The bombing of Afghanistan, which began before the UN security council gave its approval, is legally contentious. Yet the man and the organisation who overlooked this obstacle to facilitate war are honoured for their contribution to peace. Endowments like the Nobel Peace Prize are surely designed to reward self-sacrifice. Nelson Mandela gave up his liberty, FW de Clerk gave up his power, and both were worthy recipients of the prize. But Kofi Annan, the career bureaucrat, has given up nothing. He has been rewarded for doing as he is told, while nobly submitting to a gigantic salary and bottomless expense account. Among the other nominees for the prize was a group whose qualifications were rather more robust. Members of Women in Black have routinely risked their lives in the hope of preventing war. They have stayed in the homes of Palestinians being shelled by Israeli tanks and have confronted war criminals in the Balkans. They have stood silently while being abused and spat at during vigils all over the world. But now, in this looking glass world in which war is peace and peace is war, instead of winning the peace prize the Women in Black have been labelled potential terrorists by the FBI and threatened with a grand jury investigation. They are in good company. Earlier this year the director of the FBI named the chaotic but harmless organisations Reclaim the Streets and Carnival Against Capitalism in the statement on terrorism he presented to the Senate. Now, partly as a result of his representations, the senate's new terrorism bill, like Britain's Terrorism Act 2000, redefines the crime so broadly that members of Greenpeace are in danger of being treated like members of Al-Qaeda. The Bush doctrine -- if you're not with us, you're against us -- is already being applied. This government by syllogism makes no sense at all. Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda have challenged the US government; ergo anyone who challenges the government is a potential terrorist. That Bin Laden is, according to US officials, a "fascist", while the other groups are progressives is irrelevant: every public hand raised in objection will from now on be treated as a public hand raised in attack. Given that OBL is not a progressive but is a millionaire, it would surely make more sense to round up and interrogate all millionaires. Lumping Women in Black together with Al-Qaeda requires just a minor addition to the vocabulary: they have been jointly classified as "anti-American". This term, as used by everyone from Donald Rumsfeld and the Daily Mail to Tony Blair and several contributers to the Guardian, applies not only to those who hate Americans, but also to those who have challenged US foreign and defence objectives. Implicit in this denunciation is a demand for uncritical support, for a love of government more consonant with the codes of Tsarist Russia than with the ideals upon which the United States were founded. The charge of "anti-Americanism" is itself profoundly anti-American. If the United States does not stand for freedom of thought and speech, for diversity and dissent, then we have been deceived as to the nature of the national project. Were the founding fathers to congregate today to discuss the principles enshrined in their declaration of independence, they would be denounced as "anti-American" and investigated as potential terrorists. Anti-American means today precisely what un-American meant in the 1950s. It is an instrument of dismissal, a means of excluding your critics from rational discourse. Under the new McCarthyism, this dismissal extends to anyone who seeks to promulgate a version of events other than that sanctioned by the US government. On September 20, President Bush told us that "this is the fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and freedom." Two weeks later, Colin Powell met the emir of Qatar, to request that progress, pluralism, tolerance and freedom be suppressed. Al-Jazeera is one of the few independent television stations in the Middle East, whose popularity is the result of its uncommon regard for freedom of speech. It is also the only station permitted to operate freely in Kabul: many of the images of the bombing of Afghanistan we've seen on TV were recorded by its cameramen. Powell's request that it be squashed was a pre-emptive strike against freedom, which, he hoped, would prevent the world from seeing what was really happening once the bombing began. Since then, both George Bush and Tony Blair have sought to prevent Al-Jazeera from airing video statements by Bin Laden, on the grounds of the preposterous schoolboy intrigue that they "might contain coded messages". Over the weekend the government sought to persuade British broadcasters to restrict their coverage of the war. Blair's spin doctors warned "You can't trust them [the Taliban] in any way, shape, or form." While true, this applies with equal force to the techniques employed by Downing Street. When Alastair Campbell starts briefing journalists about "Spin Laden", it's a case of the tarantula spinning against the money spider. If we are to preserve the progress, pluralism, tolerance and freedom which President Bush claims to be defending, then we must question everything we see and hear. Though we know that governments lie to us in wartime, most people seem to believe that this universal rule applies to every conflict except the current one. Many of those who now accept that babies were not thrown out of incubators in Kuwait, and that the Belgrano was fleeing when she was hit, are also prepared to believe everything we are being told about Afghanistan and the terrorism in the United States. There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical. The magical appearance of the terrorists' luggage, passports and flight manual looks rather too good to be true. The dossier of "evidence" purporting to establish Bin Laden's guilt consists largely of supposition and conjecture. The ration packs being dropped on Afghanistan have no conceivable purpose other than to create the false impression that starving people are being fed. Even the anthrax scare looks suspiciously convenient. Just as the hawks in Washington were losing the public argument about extending the war to other countries, journalists start receiving envelopes full of bacteria, which might as well have been labeled "a gift from Iraq". This could indeed be the work of terrorists, who may have their own reasons for widening the conflict, but there are plenty of other ruthless operators who would benefit from a shift in public opinion. Democracy is sustained not by public trust but by public skepticism. Unless we are prepared to question, to expose, to challenge and to dissent, we conspire in the demise of the system for which our governments are supposed to be fighting. The true defenders of America are those who are now being told that they are anti-American. Captive State: the corporate takeover of Britain is now out in paperback. Around 400 of George Monbiot's essays and articles are now online at http://www.monbiot.com http://www.zmag.org/newmcart.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:04:47 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: A Chide's Alphabet Issue #2 Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , PoetryEspresso@topica.com, ImitaPo , new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit which above is now ready to leave the yards, if not yet fully fitted, and is available for the eyes of the curious or casual perusal via the link at my new Home Page addressable either through: www.paintstuff.20m.com/index.htm or http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm Issue #2 includes poetry by Andrew Duncan, Jill Jones, John Anderson, Patrick Herron, Tim Allen, Robert Hampson, Ian Davidson, Mark Weiss, Harriet Zinnes, Dominic Fox, Brian Fewster, Kent Johnson and Richard Dillon, several of whose sets are of a sizeable proportion, and too outbreaks of creative prose from Alison Croggon, Robin Hamilton and David Bircumshaw (including a secreted poem from Ms Croggon) while other delights include doubtful photographs and hints of reviews to come. The non-existent profits from this free of charge creative fest are destined for the fund for the relief of its editor's eyestrain. Which editor is particularly proud to present a retrospective of the late John Anderson's work. Phew! Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England A Chide's Alphabet www.chidesplay.8m.com Painting Without Numbers www.paintstuff.20m.com/default.htm http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/default.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:27:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: WWhitman Naropa Festival Comments: To: whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu, wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NAROPA FESTIVAL in WHITMAN'S CAMDEN November 10-13, 2001 SATURDAY NOVEMBER 10, 3:30-5 pm PANEL A Noiseless, Patient Spider: Whitman's Web of Influence on Modern and Post-Modern Poetics FREE PANELISTS Jack Collom, Rachel Blau DuPlessis Anselm Hollo, Jena Osman Bob Perelman, Heather Thomas RECEPTION 5-6:30 p.m. READING 7:30 p.m. Jack Collom Victor Hernandez Cruz Anselm Hollo SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11 WRITING WORKSHOP Akilah Oliver 11a.m.-1p.m. at: Giovanni's Room,1145 Pine Street Philadelphia, PA 19107 215/923-2960 email: giophilp@netaxs.com IN THE FIELD OF DESIRE: Queering the Text,=20 Writing Your Body Mythography=20 As Queer people, we are still writing ourselves into existence. We need=20 spaces where we can create and bear witness to one another as we write=20 ourselves into voice, into visibility, into imagination. Join writer, teache= r=20 and performer Akilah Oliver in a lively, interactive writing process. We wil= l=20 create the space to investigate and celebrate the body queer. We will use=20 journal writing, improvisation, indeterminacy, and storytelling techniques t= o=20 create new narratives. Come discover, unearth, and reinscribe your queer=20 myhthography through conscious engagement in the field of desire.=20 WHITMAN'S HOUSE AND GRAVESITE TOUR 1-2:30 PM FREE READING 3:00 PM Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Bob Perelman Heather Thomas, Akilah Oliver MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12 WRITING WORKSHOPS Anselm Hollo-10:00 a.m-12 noon YOUR WORKS! =20 This writing workshop will focus on the participants' own poems, their=20 intentions and realizations, triumphs, disappointments, and creative=20 mistakes. It will also attempt to examine and clarify the traditions of=20 which these poems partake (consciously or not). Constructive advice on, an= d=20 criticism of, the works produced by the participants will be given both by=20 the instructor and by the participants themselves. =20 Laird Hunt-4-6 p.m.(class size limit: 6) Hybrid Forms Anne Carson, in the Autobiography of Red, Michael Ondaatje, in the Collected= =20 Works of Billy the Kid, W.G. Sebald, in The Rings of Saturn, David Markson,=20 in Wittgenstein's Mistress, have written books that defy categorization. We= =20 will discuss such mongrel works and examine how blending genre and angle of=20 attack can help us craft lively and challenging fiction. READING 7:30 p.m. Laird Hunt, Jena Osman Deborah Richards, Edwin Torres TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 13 WRITING WORKSHOP Eleni Sikelianos-4-6 p.m. How Do Poets Respond to Crisis? The crisis might be personal, political or cultural=E2=80=94war, death, loss= ,=20 madness, oppression, genocide, bombs. Poetry itself might be seen as a crisi= s=20 of language; the crisis of any era embodied in words. In this workshop, we=20 will consider how language might be used in times of trouble. Poets (who=20 have long been writing in the rift) we look to as models for our own poems=20 might include Paul Celan, H.D., George Oppen, Walt Whitman, Amiri Baraka. =20 Responses might include joyful exuberance to counteract the darkness of the=20 times, a disintegrating language that reflects a shredded "reality," poems o= f=20 love as antidote or anodyne. =20 READING 7:30 p.m. Anne Waldman Samuel Delany Eleni Sikelianos About the WRITING WORKSHOPS: The festival will include 4 writing workshops on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, 11/11,12&13. Registration is on a first-come, first-served basis. Send up=20 to 4 pages of writing, your payment, and a SASE if you want your work returned. Updated Deadline: October 30, 2001. Fees for the NAROPA FESTIVAL in WHITMAN'S CAMDEN COMPLETE PACKAGE: Admission to all readings, and workshops. $75 (includes membership) $55 members WRITING WORKSHOPS: $30 (includes membership) $20 members All workshops will run 2 hours, and are limited to 10 participants, excluding Laird Hunt's fiction class (6). READINGS: General Admission $6/Students & Seniors $4/Members Free Payments should be made to the Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center by check or money order. Visa, Master Card and American Express are also accepted. Inquiries: 856-964-8300 wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org www.waltwhitmancenter.org Alicia Askenase Literary Program Director Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center 2nd and Cooper Sts. Camden, NJ 08102 Keep the world safe for poetry --Anne Waldman Hope to see you there. Please spread the word, thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:29:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = Some of the smallthing in the world do kill us, say Jennifer and Julu, but we will not be moved, we do love all smallthing, and there are so very many of such as them You will find them flying and loving, say Alan and Nikuko, look at gossamer wing light as any traveller's web Do not be afraid, say Jennifer and Julu, and Alan and Nikuko, do look down from the height and up from this wonder earth, there is loving earth and loving sky, we do find many swimming and many crawling, many running and many leaping, many gliding and many soaring Some of the smallthing do make small singing and whirring, say Jennifer and Julu, and some of the smallthing do make buzzing and humming, say Alan and Nikuko Do listen to the singing of the world, say Jennifer and Julu Do listen to all smallthing humming and leaping, say Alan and Nikuko, do not be afraid, they say, do not be afraid = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:32:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Liu, Timothy" Subject: October 22 Reading: Henry, Liu, Rabinowitz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Between A @ B Reading Series presents Brian Henry, Timothy Liu & Anna Rabinowitz on Monday, October 22, 2001, 8:00 p.m. at The Eleventh St. Bar 510 E. 11th St. (between A & B) Brian Henry's new book of poems is ASTRONAUT. He is Co-Editor of VERSE. Timothy Liu's new book of poems is HARD EVIDENCE (Talisman House). Anna Rabinowitz also has a new book of poems. She is the editor of AMERICAN LETTERS & COMMENTARY. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:48:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Walt Whitman:FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION Comments: To: whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu, wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION READING: ONE HUNDRED DAYS FRIDAY, OCTOBER 26, 7:30 PM FREE The Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center is pleased to present several authors whose work appeared in the 100 Days Anthology, a literary journal created in response to the first one hundred days of the Bush presidency. In light of current events, the reading's focus has been expanded to include freedom of speech and expression, among other topics of importance that have emerged since the September 11 attacks and its aftermath. Featured authors include: ANSELM BERRIGAN, PATRICK HERRON, JORDAN DAVIS, ALICIA ASKENASE, ALISON COBB, and hassen Anselm Berrigan is the author of Integrity and Dramatic Life, and the forthcoming Zero Star Hotel (both from Edge Books). He is currently teaching at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, and at The Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church. Jordan Davis was born in New York City. He is the author of over a dozen chapbooks, most recently _Yeah, No_ (Detour), _A Winter Magazine (Situations, forthcoming), and _From the Ground Up_ (Subpoetics Self-Publish or Perish). He is a former director of Poetry City, and is an editor of The Hat. Allison Cobb is the author of Polar Bear and Desert Fox (BabySelf 2001), the J Poems (BabySelf 2000), The Little Box Book (Situation 1999) and co-author with Jennifer Coleman and CE Putnam of Communal Bebop Canto (50 Cents Off 1998). Her first full-length collection, Born Two, is forthcoming in 2003 from Chax. hassen: lives in new jersey, recently had pieces published in *nedge* and *skanky possum,* working on a novel. Patrick Herron lives outside Chapel Hill, NC, US, where he works as a computer programmer and interface designer. Patrick's digital and textual works of poetry and visual art have appeared in places such as Rhizome.org, README, Oasia Press, VeRT, Rhizomes, Can We Have Our Ball Back, and in the recently released _100 Days: An Anthology_, a collection of poems on the Bush presidency (Barque Press). Patrick has recently completed two volumes of poetry (one is a conceptual work, and the other is a loose collection). He is also now working on a poem-play loosely based upon Captain Ahab and Oedipus and is helping his friend Lester prepare a soon-to-be-released new web journal called _The Close Quarterly(http://proximate.org/CloseQuarterly/). Alicia Askenase's poetry has appeared in several journals, including The World, Synergism, Chain, The Journal of Modern Literature, Feminist Studies, and most recently in Rooms. Her chapbook The Luxury of Pathos, was published by Texture Press. She is a founding co-editor of the Philadelphia-based literary journal 6ix and literary program director at the Walt Whitman Cultural Art Center. Please spread the word about this 'of the essence' reading. WWCAC, Camden, NJ 856-964-8300 email: wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org, web: www.waltwhitmancenter.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:20:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Tracie Morris? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, sorry, think I asked for this before, but does anyone have an email for Tracie Morris? Backchannel if you do. Thanks very much. Arielle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:45:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Collaborative Network For A World In Crisis (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:21:12 -0400 From: cary peppermint To: infogirl@restlessculture.net Subject: Collaborative Network For A World In Crisis ------------------------------ For Immediate Release http://www.restlessculture.net/discourse ------------------------------ is an international network for critical dialogue of issues that affect the global community. *The focus & issues of the site will shift because it is a "user-driven", collaborative media environment.* In its conception this project is and will continue to be: *a platform for creative, intellectual response and meditation. *a "user-driven" alternative to the prescribed, sensational feeds of accelerated mass media and governments which abandon thought in their haste to implement the rhetoric of war for political, economic and/or religious gain. *a collective opposition to all forms of fundamentalism everywhere. *a web-based initiative that questions patriotism, anti-Arabism, and all forms of racism and indifference toward others in our precious and increasingly inter-dependent global community. *a collaborative media platform of informed responses to and careful analysis of a world in crisis. ------------------------------ All content for this project is generated by users/collaborators to the site and is slightly moderated sometimes by a small pool of editors and other times by a user moderated voting system. To take part in this collaborative media environment go to and click on the link "Make a New Account." http://www.restlessculture.net/discourse for additional information contact: info@restlessculture.net ------------------------------ This project was made possible by the efforts of the following: Bill Spornitz: Conceptual, Technical Implementation & Consultant on ALL fronts Christine Nadir: Islamic/Afghan Cultural Tip Cary Peppermint: Design & Desire Alan Sondheim: Conceptual Guidance & Motivational Postings ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:44:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: LOUIS MENAND OCTOBER 22, 2001 Comments: To: nhilton@uga.edu Comments: cc: english grad students , women's studies , creative writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The University of Georgia English department, represented by Jed Rasula, would like to announce the next reader in the 2001 Lanier Reading Series, renowned author and editor Louis Menand. On Monday, October 22, at 4:00, in 261 of Park Hall, Louis Menand will give a lecture, "Pragmatism and War". Louis Menand is Distinguished Professor of English at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. He is the author, most recently, of The Metaphysical Club. He has also written Discovering Modernism: T. S. Eliot and His Context, edited The Future of Academic Freedom and Pragmatism: A Reader, and co-edited America in Theory and volume seven of The Cambridge History of Literary Criticism. Professor Menand has been a Contributing Editor of The New York Review of Books since 1994, and has also served as Associate Editor of The New Republic, and Literary Editor of The New Yorker, where he is now a staff writer. Louis Menand's The Metaphysical Club is brilliant, illuminating, necessary. --Joan Didion There is no more elegant writer of American prose than Louis Menand. --Henry Louis Gates, Jr. The Metaphysical Club is a brilliant reanimation of American pragmatism as it evolved from the writings of Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., William James, Charles Sanders Peirce, and John Dewey and as it was shaped by the traumas of the Civil War and the immense social and economic changes that followed it. Menand has written the most nuanced account I've ever read of pragmatist thinking and he demonstrates, as no one so effectively has before, how public enterprise shaped its specifically American texture and tone. This is a richly populated, intellectually thrilling book in which America is shown to be discovering its future. --Richard Poirier To read a review and excerpt of Louis Menand's most recently published book and hear an audio file discussion with the author, please visit: http://www.publishersweekly.com/index_articles/20010528_95794.asp To read an article by Louis Menand from the New York Review of Books, please visit: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/14628 --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:33:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit karen, thanks for posting these links to Poets for Peace and Dialogue Through Poetry. i've no doubt that this is important work and may do much to encourage humanitarian concern, etc. do you think poetry can considerably effect timely political change? i'm doubtful, seems like we're preaching to the few converted. i'm currently more interested in poets running for office... (wry, but somewhat serious)... h ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:34:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi tom & thanks for sending this. your article is really interesting (tho i wish it elaborated). you'd probably be able to give me a rough estimate - what's the percentage of clinical therapists utilizing WM methods in poetry (or art/music, unless language is necessary) & how/do you think it's an essential tool for 9/11 trauma (nationally/globally/locally)? h ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Bell To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 10:10 PM Subject: Re: involvement/action hassen, I'm not sure how receptive the mainstream media is right now to any but the most patriotic poetry. I just had the attached article rejected by ASAP. Obviously it might have been because it was not 'crisp' enough, but on the other hand it may have been hesitancy to print anything that was not obviously establishment. tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:55:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi elizabeth~ thanks for taking the time/effort to reply. don't know what to tell you beyond what you're doing. i also sign petitions. i write succinct letters to legislators, news editors, whomever else appropriate. yap abt. issues with anyone willing. can't wait for the jersey election nov 6. i've called radio talk shows, sent out email notices/info to family & friends & recently put up a website for them (or anyone interested - http://members.home.net/hhssn/facilitate.htm ) to access a few articles & alternative news sources - as well as to facilitate action. beyond my few close friends, most 'regular folks' i know are unaware of news or ideas other than what's on network t.v. i'm thinking most effective would be to better inform the public of current events/issues/ideas & encourage their participation? wish there would be a major movement to do this. but surely others have thought of & implemented other solutions(?) that i've not heard about yet. there must be organizations or individuals doing more than petitions/protests. with all the concern for humanity, the intelligence, ingenuity & agility, poetics people c/would substantially contribute to our process. i'd like to know what's going on, y'know? best of course, hassen *hopefully i'll soon have a fun long-sleeved t w/flag graphic: "patriotism is best demonstrated by our participation in the democratic process" (tho i'd rather it be a psa or billboard(s)!) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:26:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Re: Left fundamentalism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Scott, I can't completely agree with your agreeing completely with Barrett. How can you speak of "misuse" of language in this instance? Barrett's sentence, in reply to the captions "Best analysis of left fundamentalism by co-editor of Dissent" & "How the right exploits left fundamentalism," was "This is a misuse of language, pure and simple." What could the normative basis for appropriate use be here? These sentence-fragments from Ron Silliman are not errors: misusages like "My apple is hungry" or "Can't I haves my poems published yet so I'm eligible for government gwants?" or "Stan Persky's Wrestling the Angel made me even nimbler in my jawlessness than Karl Siegler's pulping of the remaining 423 copies of Dorothy Trujillo Lusk's Redactive in 1995" that can be classified as misusages only against a ground of some grammatical or lexical or some other kind of normalcy. Turning "left fundamentalism" into a misusage doesn't let us get at the ideological content, the term's materiality, its way of regulating perception & bodies. I'd say that the problem could be treated by first asking Ron why he uses the phrase. Ron? Aaron Vidaver Vancouver PS--Great links, though. "George Bush is the president, he makes the decisions. Wherever he wants me to line up, just tell me where. And he'll make the call." -- Dan Rather to David Letterman Fashion for the Evil-Doer http://members.tripod.com/~mrpuzuzu/fashion.html “Basic human truth: you don’t need to take dead batteries with you. Suspicion condiments are really great—no gun, but I got a whistle; oh, I’m sorry I seem to be using up all the oxygen! Make a science out of favorite cops, subluxated vertebrae, as plaintiff Jesus said: you must be born again, so _I_ said: eat the afterbirth! She wants to see herself in multiplication tables, tentacular saline. Britain means grey & brown applied theft Jehovah’ s bloodmobile, theatrum politicum: wish for grapes to fight back. Join the party and die; bald heads remind me of lunch.” -- Bruce Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Scott Hamilton To: Date: Monday, October 15, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Left fundamentalism >I agree completely with Barrett. A similar misuse of >language involves labelling the Taleban's politics >'fascism'. This term, which arises from a large, >disputatious and politically-engaged literature, >should not be thrown willy-nilly at any reactionary >political doctrine or practice. If people want to use >it, they should first find out what it means. > >Cheers >Scott > >For "a ruthless criticism of every existing idea": >THR@LL, NZ's class struggle anarchist paper http://www.freespeech.org/thrall/ >THIRD EYE, a Kiwi lib left project, at http://www.geocities.com/the_third_eye_website/ >and 'REVOLUTION' magazine, a Frankfurt-Christchurch production, http://cantua.canterbury.ac.nz/%7Ejho32/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:35:07 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: SAMIZDAT #8 AND HOLLO CHAPBOOK/special offer MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey there list-folks. Samizdat Editions is proud to announce... S A M I Z D A T # 8 ---- AND THE ANTI-LAUREATE CHAPBOOK ------------------------------------------------ What's up with SAMIZDAT #8, you ask? it features... MICHAEL HELLER'S ESSAY "ASPECTS OF POETICS" and THREE BELGIAN SURREALISTS introduced by MICHEL DELVILLE plus... AN INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL HELLER and... POEMS by MICHAEL ANANIA, BROOKE BERGAN, STERLING PLUMPP, LEILA CLOUD SULLIVAN and... TRANSLATIONS FROM THE FINNISH and if that weren't enough... REVIEWS of MICHAEL HELLER and of KEITH TUMA'S OXFORD ANTHOLOGY and my own editorial entitled... 6,810,000 LITERS OF POETRY PER SECOND BUT BEST OF ALL.... FREE WITH THIS ISSUE (while supplies last)... ANSELM HOLLO'S NEW ANTI-LAUREATE CHAPBOOK... "SO THE ANTS MADE IT TO THE CAT FOOD" ------------------------------------- How, you ask, do I lay my poetry-lovin' paws on an issue? Copies are $3.00 (magazine and chapbook), checks made out to Robert Archambeau, 9 Campus Circle, Lake Forest IL 60045 see our evolving web site Samizdateditions.com for more infor (and a preview of our soon-to-be released new books!!) oh yeah ... I almost forgot ... A LIMITED NUMBER OF FREE COPIES ARE RESERVED FOR LIST-FOLKS WHO HAVE NEVER RECEIVED A FREE SAMIZDAT BEFORE! if you want one of the freebies, send your snail-mail address (USA only, sorry -- foreign mailings cost a bit too much for the free offer) to --- Archambeau@lfc.edu --- with the suject heading SAMIZDAT/free offer. We're stoked about this one, folks... Bob Archambeau (blowing my endowed chair money on printing chapbooks, and loving every minute of it). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:39:49 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: More re: the ANTI-LAUREATE CHAPBOOK MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Here's a blurb from Anselm Hollo's anti-laureate chapbook, (free with Samizdat #8): "Anselm Hollo was proclaimed United States Anti-Laureate after an informal election held on SUNY-Buffalo's Poetics list in the summer of 2001. The Anti-Laureateship is a protest against the banality of the most recent Poets laureate, and a parody of the prize culture that permeates the small world of American poetry. BLAST the Laureate, and BLESS the Anti-Laureate. Long may he reign over us." --Robert Archambeau, October 2001 Read more about this in "6,810,000 Liters of Poetry per Second," the lead-off editorial of Samizdat #8 (and yes, Barrett, I acknowledge your protest against my protest there!) Bob Archambeau ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:50:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: m&r....the holy trinity...tenure...sabbaticals .u. grants... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" this is cute... esp as i'm applying for sabbatical leave right now... At 2:33 AM -0400 10/16/01, Harry Nudel wrote: > Usually realiable Arabic sources have informed us how delighted >they are with their campaign to target u. intellectuals and poets. >By choosing the most resentful, least worldly and the most need >attention driven class, they have hit a home run. A little $$$ >schmeared goes a long way with these poor in spirit. They see it as >just as a matter of time till the poi$on of the sipping bee-mouth >spreads into the larger society. Honeyed words...lies lies & damned >lies... spreading self-doubt....DRn... -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:44:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Clay Subject: Granary Books autumn harvest [part 1 of 2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Announcing very recent and new books: Lyn Hejinian's brilliant long poem A Border Comedy "has the feel of a career milestone" [says Publishers Weekly] - $15.95 - don't miss this one - beautiful cover image by Francie Shaw. J. Hoberman's On Jack Smith's Flaming Creatures. $29.95. The centerpiece of this book is a cache of recently discovered photographs by Norman Solomon documenting and giving insight into the making of this notorious masterpiece. J. Hoberman's work is sober, lucid and enthusiastic - very important in beginning to mine the cultural riches of this important figure and the scene he inhabited: Lower East Side in the very early sixties. Stunning book design by Heung-Heung Chin. Wildly illustrated throughout - some color plates. We'll shortly formally announce a series of screenings of Smith's films at Anthology Film Archives (NYC) (along with screenings of films by Piero Heliczer) November 29-December 2. [Note: we are in the process of creating a facsimile reprint edition of Smith's artists' book of 1962 The Beautiful Book. It is due out by Oct 30 - details to follow.] Soliloquy by Kenneth Goldsmith. $17.95. In the tradition of Warhol's A and David Antin's talk poems - Soliloquy ups the ante on real speech as poetry. This is an unedited document of every word Goldsmith spoke during a week in 1996. "Confronted with the matter of 'real' speech (not to mention its content, which might prove more embarrassing than its stammers and mumbles), we realize that we all sound a bit like George Bush." zingmagazine [Voyeurs take note: Swoon by Nada Gordon and Gary Sullivan - a 300+ page excerpt from their legendary correspondence initiated here on the poetics list will be out by Oct 30. "Swoon is perfect" says Eileen Myles.] The Angel Hair Anthology edited by Anne Waldman and Lewis Warsh. 650 pp!! Works from the magazine and the 60 some titles published by this great press late sixties to late seventies. "An archival masterpiece" says Jerome Rothenberg. Ceravolo, Coolidge, Creeley, Greenwald, Kyger, Mayer, Notley, Padgett, Weiner, Wieners - to name all too few. Paper $28.95; cloth with dust jacket $44.95 [Publication party and large group reading to celebrate this book at the Poetry Project (NYC) November 14, 2001.] Lewis Warsh and Julie Harrison. Debtor's Prison. $24.95. An artists' book, sort of, text and image paired - printed duotones grabbed from video artist Julie Harrion's potent stills from the seventies next to Warsh's new writings. "The ambiguities of meaning, life's pleasures and anguish, find a beautiful and disturbing home here." Lynne Tillman. The Vermont Notebook by John Ashbery and Joe Brainard. Our reprint of this classic from 1975 is $17.95 ** also from Granary: I Remember ($12) and Joe Brainard: A Retrospective ($29.95) - don't miss the touring exhibit now mounted at P.S. 1 in NYC. Visit the website for more Brainardiana http://www.joebrainard.org Was Here by Emily McVarish. Large format letterpress book written, designed, printed and bound by Ms. McVarish - a meditation on the nature of photography and the 'book' as sites or repositories for the accumulation of "historical" information. Small edition - beautifully conceived and executed. $925 Robert Creeley and Archie Rand. Drawn & Quartered. $15.95 - an amazing collaboration by these acknowledged masters of the form. Lunaria by bill bissett is an 84 page Blakean tour de force - each copy hand-painted throughout with accompanying cd of the poet performing this long visionary work. Edition of about 40 copies. Raging!! $3000 - The Case for Memory by Jerome Rothenberg and Ian Tyson. Poems and images from this wonderful duo- they've been collaborating together since the mid-sixties. Our book includes new poems and four silkscreen images. Two states of the edition: 30 copies in the regular edition: $500; 20 copies in the special edition contain an extra suite of the prints: $850 (only a couple of copies of this one left.) The above listed books have all been published and are all available for sale directly from Granary [list people please take 20% off - special edition books excepted][drop a quick email to orders@granarybooks.com], from SPD and from many good bookshops around the world. Forthcoming: New books by Leslie Scalapino and Marina Adams, Piero Heliczer (edited by Gerard Malanga and Anselm Hollo), Simon Pettet and Duncan Hannah + more will be described and offered in a couple of weeks. Details exist on our website which is gradually being updated. Party: Please join us in New York at Teachers and Writers [5 Union Square West] on Tuesday October 30 7-9 pm. There will be readings and presentations at 7:15 with a reception following. All are welcome. -- Steve Clay Granary Books, Inc. 307 Seventh Ave #1401 NY NY 10001 212 337 9979 fax 212 337 9774 www.granarybooks.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:47:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: FEar-aMErICa: lET THE EXPErTS HanDlE IT all. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - FEar-aMErICa: lET THE EXPErTS HanDlE IT all. wE'rE nOT unITED wE'VE nEVEr bEEn unITED wE nEVEr wIll bE unITED wE DOn'T wanT TO bE unITED I'M nOT ParT OF YOu YOu'rE nOT ParT OF ME wE'rE nOT ParT OF anYTHInG COnFlaGraTIOn Talk COnFlaGraTIOn SuPPlICanTS wE SHOulD bE wIPED InTO EXISTEnCE - wE SHOulD bE bOunD InTO IT - wE'rE SEX DOllS OF THE EaSTErn wOrlD THE wESTErn wOrlD - DOn'T YOu knOw EXISTEnCE IS alwaYS a bInDInG - TakES MaInTEnanCE - "OnE MOrE InDICaTOr OF an OrGanIZED aTTaCk" - InVESTInG In THE wOrlD - In THE MEanInG OF THE wOrlD - CrEaTInG MEanInG - "all THE anTHraX" - TakES EnErGY - THErE arE VaST anD IrrESOluTE FOrCES aGaInST IT - THErE arE FurIES aGaInST IT - VIGIlEnCE IS THE COnDITIOn OF bEInG alIVE - 'anGEr IS an EnErGY' - :wE'rE DaMnED IF wE Can'T STanD a lITTlE FEar In Our SYSTEM - I'M MOrE In DanGEr DrIVInG HOME DOwn bIrD rOaD In MIaMI - wElCOME TO THE rEal wOrlD - IS THIS rEallY THE FIrST TIME YOu knEw YOu wErE HaTED In SOME VErY larGE POCkETS OF THE wOrlD - all of us arE bEInG bOMbED baCk InTO THE STOnE aGE - wE'll all GO DOwn TOGETHEr - FrOM JuST OnE Or TwO anTHraX DEaTHS - THInk OF Our arMaGEDDOn COMPlEX - wEST nIlE FEVEr kIllED JuST a FEw - buT waS an EXCuSE FOr PESTICIDE-bOMb- InG THE wHOlE EaSTErn SEabOarD - kIllInG all THE lObSTErS In lOnG ISlanD SOunD FOr OnE THInG - THaT'S bIOTErrOrISM OF THE EnVIrOnMEnT buT nEVEr MInD - lET'S Call IT SOMETHInG ElSE - :SICk OF IGnOranT SPECulaTIOn, COnTEnT VEErInG OFF THE SCalES, SICk OF IDEOlOGY OF unITY SuFFOCaTInG FrEE SPEECH In THIS COunTrY, SICk OF anTHraX COnFlaGraTIOn SCarE wHEn nOTHInG'S THErE TO SuPPOrT IT, SICk OF MEDIa wHIPPInG uP FEar: nIGHTlInE SCrEaMInG anthrax, rEPrESEnTaTIVE SCrEaMInG anthrax, GOOD SPOrES anD baD SPOrES, CIPrO anD PrOZak :Turn uS MaD-DOG FOaMInG aT THE MOuTH, HaTInG wOnDEr-buSH 105% POSITIVE lEaDSHIP raTInG, HaTInG bEHInD-THE-SCEnE OlD MEn runnInG anD ruInInG THIS COunTrY aS IF DISSEnT nEVEr EXISTED HErE, HaTInG bIn laDEn'S brIllIanT OrCHESTraTIOn - wITH wHaT? - wITH nOTHInG - OF a POTEnTIal COllaPSE OF aMErICan DEMOCraCY - lOOk aT THE caves - THESE arE rEal men - waTCH THEM HOlD council - wHY arE THEY THE OnlY OnES CErTaIn OF anYTHInG HErE - :wE'rE nOT ParT OF anYTHInG:I'M nOT ParT OF YOu:: wE'rE nOT unITED wE'VE nEVEr bEEn unITED wE nEVEr wIll bE unITED wE DOn'T wanT TO bE unITED I'M nOT ParT OF YOu YOu'rE nOT ParT OF ME wE'rE nOT ParT OF anYTHInG COnFlaGraTIOn Talk COnFlaGraTIOn SuPPlICanTS = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:50:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Abel Subject: request -- resources re: revision MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello listees. I'm going to be offering a workshop on "revision" this November-December through Portland's Independent Publishing Resource Center (and very likely again next summer at Sitka Center for Art & Ecology on the coast). It will be aimed primarily--though not exclusively--at writers, working in any genre. I would eagerly welcome any and all suggestions that anyone might have for additional resources on the subject of revision (in any medium or discipline). Texts that I might add to the bibliography that I'm developing, or to the reserve reading shelf that I'm assembling (i.e. essays, interviews, anthologies, pedagogical works, exemplifications, etc.) ... as well as any anecdotes of your own, favorite quotations, or techniques/exercises, that seem especially pertinent to revision/editing/rewriting. Backchannel responses to me at passages@inetarena.com very gratefully appreciated. Best regards, David Abel Portland, Oregon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:12:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hassen, the article is unelaborated as it was written for an academice psyhology audience, but I am thinking of revising for a poetics, English, etc. audience. WM is actually a concept that combines analytical thinking and cognitive psychological thinking but I think from my experience it is actually something almost any therapist of whatever persuasion has 'in mind' as they work with a client. I see it as a useful way to think for any person or group trying to deal in a useful way ('resolve' is the jargon we use) with the traumas we are experiencing. I'm not sure I'm being clear here, and Nick might have something to add. tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "hassen" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 6:34 PM Subject: Re: involvement/action > hi tom & thanks for sending this. your article is really interesting (tho i > wish it elaborated). you'd probably be able to give me a rough estimate - > what's the percentage of clinical therapists utilizing WM methods in poetry > (or art/music, unless language is necessary) & how/do you think it's an > essential tool for 9/11 trauma (nationally/globally/locally)? > > h > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Thomas Bell > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 10:10 PM > Subject: Re: involvement/action > > > hassen, > I'm not sure how receptive the mainstream media is right now to any but > the most patriotic poetry. I just had the attached article rejected by > ASAP. Obviously it might have been because it was not 'crisp' enough, but > on the other hand it may have been hesitancy to print anything that was not > obviously establishment. > > tom bell > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:26:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: some deeper food for thought MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These are messages posted to psyart that I think add to several recent = discussions here 1.> From: Marzall@aol.com 3:28 AM In the years between 1400 and 1450 the new word 'terrible' sprang upon = the English language in its middle phase. From the Latin base 'to frighten' = it entered the language during an aptly frightening time. There was a = sudden clash of cultures from the Ottoman Empire, to city states in Italy, to = the first contact shocks of New World and Old World in the Americas. Of = course, the early decades of the 15th century softened into its later decades = with the beautiful renaissance of cultures enriched by their interweaving, mingling, and renewing. So many of the translations of the Hellenic philosophers came back to = the west by way of Arabic translations. The chaos of the times would shatter = old frames, only to see new figures and objects emerge...Hieronymus Bosch = and his softly bizarre worlds, Gutenburg's press, and the hammered gold mirages = of the Aztecs return from the sunset to awestruck Europeans. And now, yes, the walls of our mutual fundamentalisms are falling with a terrible shock. We lost as many and more of our dear countrypeople in = one day in early September as we did during the entire American Revolution. But if we take, for the moment, Vico's idea that 'leading personalities = are merely born of their times' it's clear that a First President could have = been known by another great name, that Yeshua ben Yosef, Jesus, could have = been called by another savior's name, and that Mr. Bush (driven by his need = to match his father?) and Mr. bin Laden (born in 1957, 17th of 52 children = in his family, starved for attention and affection?) are leading characters = in our modern-day cast onstage who must push their symbolic, synonymic fundamentalisms to extremes so that we might break the deeper molds and mindsets born of our fearful and foolish isolations on this small, = colorful planet. --- "Abdallah al-Yashkuri said: I went to Kufa to procure some mules, and I entered the mosque where there was a man of Qais named Ibn al-Muntafiq = who was saying: Someone described to me the Apostle of Allah, and it was = pleasing to me, so I went to Mecca to find him, but they said that he was at = Muna. So I went to Muna to find him, but they said he was at Arafat. Finally, I = found him and approached him, getting so close that I could catch the bridle = of his mount - or perhaps he said: till I could catch hold of the neck-rein of = his mount - so that the necks of our two steeds crossed. I said: 'There are = two things about which I want to ask you. What will save me from Hell, and = what will assure me entrance to Paradise?' He looked up at the sky, then he = turned to face me, and said: 'Even though you have put the matter in short, you = are on to something that is immense and really needs a long answer. = Nevertheless take this from me: You should worship Allah, associating nothing with = Him, perform the prayers that have been prescribed, fast the month of = Ramadan, act with people the way you would like them to act with you, do not be = averse to folk coming to you but let the people do it, and let go the neck-rein of = my riding beast." - from Al-Malati's 'Kitab at-Tanbih' quoted in Mircea Eliade's = 'Essential Sacred Writings From Around the World'. Marshall Williamson Boulder, Colorado 2.> From: Raymond Barglow 12:30 AM Dear subscribers to PsyArt, I am surprised that no one has yet posted the following essay by Lloyd deMause. I don't know how many of you are familiar with his work. He is the editor of The Journal of Psychohistory (www.psychohistory.com). He is educated in political science and psychoanalysis and the essay below is a good example of his approach. If what he says below is essentially correct, then I regard his analysis as very illuminating. deMause is a very controversial figure. Some people think very highly of his work, others view that work as extremely speculative. The reason that I am submitting this essay to this list is that I really would like to know what you all think of it. I am too ignorant of how children are rasied in fundamentalist families to have an opinion. If you think he oversimplfies or distorts in some way, I would like to hear about that too. I need your help. Even if you cannot evaluate this brief essay, do you know someone who can? Thanks, raymond barglow berkeley ******************************************** THE CHILDHOOD ORIGINS OF TERRORISM Lloyd deMause In the massive media coverage of the terrorist attacks, there has been no interest shown in why the terrorists felt they had to kill Americans. They were "Evil," as the President told us, and that has seemed to satisfy our curiosity as to their motives. But if we are going to end this terrorism, it would be useful to understand what makes a terrorist, what developmental life histories they share that can help us see why they want to kill "American infidels" and themselves, so we can work to remove the sources of their violence and really prevent future terrorist attacks. The roots of terrorism lie, I believe, not in this or that American political attitude but in the extremely abusive families of the terrorists. Children who grow up to be Islamic terrorists are products of an extremely misogynist fundamentalist system that strictly segregates the family into two separate areas, the men's area, often on the first floor, and the women's area, above the men, where the children are brought up and which the father rarely visits. Even in countries like Saudi Arabia today, women by law cannot mix with unrelated men, and public places still have separate women's areas in restaurants and work places, because, as one Muslim sociologist put it bluntly: "In our society there is no relationship of friendship between a man and a woman." Girls are routinely treated abominably in fundamentalist families. When a boy is born, the family rejoices; when a girl is born, the whole family mourns. The girl's sexuality is so hated that when she is five or so the women grab her, pin her down, and chop off her clitoris and often her labia with a razor blade or piece of glass, ignoring her agony and screams for help, because, they say, her clitoris is "dirty," "ugly," "poisonous," "can cause a voracious appetite for promiscuous sex," and "might render men impotent." Her vagina is then usually sewed up to prevent intercourse, leaving only tiny hole for urination. The genital mutilation is excruciatingly painful. About a fifth die from infections, mutilated women must "shuffle slowly and painfully" and usually are frigid. Over 100 million genitally mutilated women are estimated to live today in Islamic nations, from Somali and Sudan to Egypt, Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Although some areas have mostly given up the practice, in others-like Sudan and Uganda-the practice is increasing, with 90% of the women surveyed saying they planned to circumcise all of their daughters. The mutilation is not required by the Qu=B4an; Mohammad, in fact, said girls should be treated even better than boys. Yet the women have inflicted upon their daughters for millennia the horrors done to them, perhaps re-enacting the widespread misogyny of men toward themselves as they mutilate their daughters while joyfully chanting songs like: "We used to be friends, but today I am the master, for I am a man. Look-I have the knife in my hand Your clitoris, I will cut off and throw away for today I am a man." As the girls grow up, they are usually treated as though they were polluted beings, veiled, rarely educated, and sometimes gang-raped when men outside the family wish to settle scores with the men in her family. As the President of Pakistan's Commission on Women concluded, "The average woman is born into near slavery, leads a life of drudgery, and dies invariably in oblivion." Even marriage can be considered rape for most, since the family chooses the partner and the girl is sometimes as young as eight. Wife-beating is common and divorce by wives rare-in fact, Islamic women have been known to have been killed by their families because they asked for a divorce. It is no wonder that the Physicians for Human Rights found 97 percent of women surveyed suffered from "severe depression." It is not surprising that these mutilated, battered women make less than ideal mothers, repeating their own miseries upon their children. Visitors to families throughout Muslim societies report on the "slapping, striking, whipping and thrashing" of children, with constant shaming and humiliation as they are told by their mothers that they are "cowards" if they don't hit others. Physical abuse is continuous; as the Pakistani Conference on Child Abuse reports: A large number of children face some form of physical abuse, from infanticide and abandonment of babies, to beating, shaking, burning, cutting, poisoning, holding under water or giving drugs or alcohol, or violent acts like punching, kicking, biting, choking, beating, shooting or stabbing Schools regularly practice corporal punishment-particularly the religious schools from which Taliban volunteers come-chaining up their students for days "in dark rooms with little food and hardly any sanitation." Newborn infants are often swaddled "like a mummy." Sexual abuse-described as including "fondling of genitals, coercing a child to fondle the abuser's genitals, masturbation with the child as either participant or observer, oral sex, anal or vaginal penetration by penis, finger or any other object and [child] prostitution"-is extensive, though impossible to quantify. In some areas, children are reported to have marks all over their bodies from being burned by their parents with red-hot irons or pins as punishment or to cure being possessed by demons. Children are taught strict obedience to all parental commands, stand when their parents enter the room, kiss their hands, don't laugh "excessively," fear them immensely, and learn that giving in to any of their own needs or desires is sinful. The ascetic results of such punitive upbringings are predictable. When these abused children grow up, they feel that every time they try to self-activate, every time they do something independently for themselves, they will lose the approval of the parents in their heads-mainly their mothers and the others in the women's quarters. When their cities became flooded with oil money and Western popular culture in recent decades, they were attracted to the new freedoms and pleasures, but would soon retreat, feeling they would lose their mommy's approval and be "bad boys." Westerners come to represent their own "Bad Boy" self in projection, and had to be killed off. As one Islamist put it, "America is Godless. Western influence here is not a good thing, our people can see CNN, MTV, kissing " As one terrorist put it, "We will destroy American cities piece by piece because your life style is so objectionable to us, your pornographic movies and TV." Osama bin Laden himself "while in college frequented flashy nightclubs, casinos and bars [and] was a drinker and womanizer," but soon felt extreme guilt for his sins, and joined the extreme fundamentalist movement and preached killing Westerners for their freedoms and their sinful enticements of Muslims. Most of the Taliban, in fact, are wealthy, like bin Laden, have had contact with the West, and were shocked by "the personal freedoms and affluence of the average citizen, by the promiscuity, and by the alcohol and drug use of Western youth only an absolute and unconditional return to the fold of conservative Islamism could protect the Muslim world from the inherent dangers and sins of the West." Bin Laden lives with his four wives and fifteen children in a small cave with no running water, waging a holy war against all those who enjoy sinful pleasures and freedom that he cannot allow himself without losing his mommy's approval. From childhood, then, Islamist terrorists have been taught to kill the part of themselves-and others-that is selfish and wants personal pleasures and freedoms. It is in the homes-not just later in the terrorist camps-that they learn to be martyrs and want to "die for Allah." When terrorist suicidal bombers who were prevented from carrying out their acts were interviewed on TV they said they felt "ecstatic" as they pushed the button. They denied being motivated by the virgins supposedly awaiting them in Paradise. Instead, they said they wanted to die to "join Allah," and had written letters to their mothers before going off to die "so she would know I was a martyr and she wouldn't be sad I died." Since childhood is the key to eliminating all political violence, rather than pursuing a lengthy holy war against terrorists it might be better for the U.S. to back a new U.N.-sponsored Marshall Plan for them that includes Community Parenting Centers, in order to give their families the chance to evolve beyond the abusive family system that is producing the terrorism, just as we did for Germany after WWII for the families that produced Nazism. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:35:56 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Humanitas: Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Humanitas. There is you know sometimes a solid darkness so near impenetrable we = have to eat our way through. It is essential for morale. Certain = soldiers dream of eyes to stab, or, at the last, of avoiding. But we are = enjoined from the dark and neo-natural engines of our past, and - well - = quite frankly - we have to eat the wall. Those black and bassile waves = come at us. Heads and horribles all gorgon with eyes come at us. We = hate, yet need, this darkness. Perhaps it's a Northern thing. Or it's = (just?) us? We, or some of us. Sometimes. And some times - like ants on = the flax-flower whose weird white and purple spikes break to the sky so = bitter and remote, yet, oh how so blue and gold-filled, like, well, like = a set of magic teeth. And things. Things we'd never suspected, horrid = and gentle things. These emerge, and come at us. And do we eat through? = Eh? Do we? Is this thus our victory? Toward what? By whom? Is The Great = One watching? These questions curl inside a dead leaf mass of erotic sadness until = the light is everywhere in the dawn. And we, we are held high. So high, = eyes cannot see: yet we are naked pink and vast. =20 R Taylor. 20 8 2000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:10:01 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: on what to call them MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Canadian friend said something interesting to me the other day. That Blair is being immensely Macchiavellian. Knowing that he could not actually stop USA doing *something, he bought into it and therefore earned multitudinous brownie points from THE rich and powerful nation Regarding Palestine, he's doing *something; but it could have happened a long time ago. There may be more rejoicing in heaven when a sinner repents, but a conclusion could be that it took mass murder for anyone to start doing something. Maybe it did. I recall an interview with Gorbachov where he said that the impulse for what became called glasnost was realising one day "This can't go on" Sharon has no intention of helping. He will block all the way. He negotiates in bad faith. Just now he has the assassination of his minister to use, but if it hadn't been that it would have been the colour of the sky. The *world won't be able to see anything because it doesn't exist. Many do see deep causes but they aren't on the podium. Those who are on the podium exaggerate their bosses' opinions as "every one agrees" Anger and retaliation are not the only causes of conflict. I am pretty sure Afghanistan was scheduled for a bit of demolition already. If this were to do with righteousness, UK and USA would hardly be allied with Russia while it is murdering the Chechens L ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: 16 October 2001 13:48 Subject: Re: on what to call them The actions of Bush | will increrase terrorism in the long run: Blair seems to be attempting to | help the situation in Palestine but Sharon is not helping. I think Blair, on | those occasions when he "climbs down a bit", has a few clues. Maybe the | world will see that the deep causes that motivate anger and retaliation are | now needing to be analysed and addressed. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:24:35 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: geraldine mckenzie Subject: today Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It's been pretty dry here for the last 6 months or so, today was more of the same, a hot day but with a cold south-easter blowing, the dead leaves that are always with us (gums shed all year round) scattering as I walk through the playground. Taking advantage of a free period to nick off to the shops and pick up the two leading newspapers. And they're leading with the war - one featuring a memorial cover with the motto and emblem of the SAS - the other (the respected Sydney Morning Herald) (respected by some)a little cartoon showing a ship sailing away as one character standing on the wharf says - What exactly are they going to fight for? - and another replies - We'll have to wait till the movie comes out. In the classroom, a number of kids ask to have a look at the papers, I oblige, and notice Glen and Grant have checked out the cover then moved on to the sports section. Sirke, the drama teacher, has had a letter from her Finnish grandmother asking about reported outbreaks of anthrax in Australia. There are none. Flipping through sometextbook activities for a Year 9 class studying World War I, I come across an Extension Activity: Devise a scenario in which Australia might go to war - Driving home I'm talking quietly to Damon in the back seat until the driver, Rod, a very dear man who can be extremely exasperating, raises his voice - America goes in and... America goes in... America...- Damon and I know when to shut up. Rod sometimes deals with his anger/pain by indulging a vehement heavy=handed black humour that makes me want to scream. We both have sons who are draftworthy - They shouldn't take him - he says - take me, my life's over anyway, they should send me over. I'll shoot a few Americans. - Meanwhile the election campaign rolls on - photo of Bush on the phone to the current P.M., a mean-spirited dishonest prick of a guy who loves posing with soldiers - the Opposition Leader declares he is completely on side (the Labor Party was opposed to our involvment in Vietnam - times have changed but so has the party)- but it's getting him nowhere. The Government, slated to lose office about 6 weeks ago has manipulated the issue of refugees, and now the war against terrorism, supported by a credulous, anxious and, again, mean-spirited public (the racist is not too far below the surface in many Australians) and now looks set to win. My son, Otis, and I have another conversation about it all, when I walk away he turns up the CD - Creedence playing Fortunate Son. It seems like we are at war and it means something but less than I'd expected. All of those we're sending off are trained, armed and volunteers. It's all those who are not trained, armed or volunteers that seem to matter more. Geraldine > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:28:27 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Poem Words Richard in Reflective or Strange Mood? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Winter Song=20 =20 long winding words that, somehow, enclose worlds of wonder and are sometimes as=20 intricate difficile and marvelous as coils of green gold; do hide, or rather, obscure, the truth: if=20 truth there be - but are sometimes=20 in this onerous world, necessary, even "just right": like=20 polyphiloprogenitive, the word by which Eliot begins his sermon poem: = but=20 it is natural that certain sometimes simple plain, or non-doubling = unprovoking words, by their very seeming innocent, are thus accused and eventually allow all things all times sometimes=20 to accrue to difficult: life is or can be difficult and I and you are assailed by alternating hardships hopes joys which interchange yet by dint of self-resolve and reciprocal care=20 and dignity of thinking less harmful or "evil"=20 thoughts, we somewhat master, and are less than overmastered by this our life which for many like myself=20 is good and allows to me such things as comfort: food, music=20 when I want it, and a garden: - much neglected now but, well, those cinerarias shall first peep forth, and then the freesias, my favourite flowers, for=20 with my wounded nose, it is one of the few I can smell, and it is=20 a joyful joyful thought to think on them that shall spring in spring = like miracles, such as those daily as of breathing or the acts of consuming food and light. Let water flow from taps in all lands: let no human lack, and none to stay=20 in too long a darkness of their soul:unconsouled and wanting, alone and lonely, and thus or because, unloving. =20 =20 I would do such things for you. =20 but human kind is not so kind. Nor are words so simple or so straight as I have fingered: as if I were = blind. I=20 cannot know it all, or any, if at all -=20 =20 Richard Taylor =20 22 6 2001 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:24:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--October 2001 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street New York City FREE Open Mike on First Saturdays of the Month ONLY! October 20 Francine Sterle, JC Todd October 27 Bruce Andrews, Jeanne Lambert, Harriet Zinnes The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder and Jason Schneiderman, Directors Martha Rhodes, Executive Director For additional information, contact Michael Broder or Jason Schneiderman at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:33:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: m&r..definition...... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/17/01 10:01:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM writes: > > > > > > Buddhist Compassion...the compassion for ALL sentient beings.... just > as long as it's not the 'messy' person breathing, smelling & dead next to > you......Drn... > > > > Please know that when the messy person breathing smelling dying next to me dies, I will too. GT ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:50:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Last minute release party & reading alert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey come to the party: The people behind the journal are proud to announce the release of issue eleven of * * * LUNGFULL! MAGAZINE * * * with a Gala Reception & Celebratory Reading THURSDAY 18 OCTOBER 2001 6:30PM ZINC BAR 90 West Houston Street betw Laguardia & Thompson NYC It would be lovely to see you there - both to celebrate work by the many contributors to the magazine &, in a broader sense, to affirm the relevance & increased responsibility of artists & writers in the altered world. * * * Readers will include: Lauren Acompora, Elena Alexander, Anselm Berrigan, Brenda Bordofsky, Joe Elliot, Cliff Fyman, Kathleen Krause, Susan Landers, Tracey McTague, Wanda Phipps, Jen Robinson, Herschel Silverman, Edwin Torres & Deborah Wood. Your host will be LUNGFULL! editor Brendan Lorber. LUNGFULL! magazine is the only literary & art journal in America that prints the rough drafts of people's work so you can see the creative process. It's also the only magazine with a 100% waterproof cover -- endorsed by the US Olympic Swimming Team, the New York City Aquarium & wherever liquid is found. * * * Issue 11 contains writing & rough drafts from: Lauren Acampora, Elena Alexander, Eric G. Amling, Kristi Bell, Anselm Berrigan, Brenda Bordofsky, Colette DeDonato, Albert Flynn DeSilver, Joe Elliot, Brett Evans, Cliff Fyman, Eric Gelsinger, Franci Levine Grater, Hector, Zara Houshmand, Philip Kobylarz, Noelle Kocot, Kathleen E. Krause, Susan Landers, Brendan Lorber, Tracey McTague, Michael Peters, Rusty Morrison, Wanda Phipps, Julien Poirier, Jen Robinson, David Rosenthal, Katie Ryan Roth, Jalal al-Din Rumi, Herschel Silverman, Sparrow, Elizabeth Treadwell, Edwin Torres, Paul Violi, Canon Wing, Deborah Wood & letters from: Brian Batcheldor, Jim Behrle, Eddie Berrigan, Del Ray Cross, Richard Deutch, Brandon Downing, Bill Gates, Rachel Levitsky, Dr. T Jackson Lorre, Jules Mann, Pattie McCarthy, Carol Mirakove, Tara Needham, Kristin Prevallet, Julie Reid & The Retired Loris Guild Features in the issue include stickers Zara Houshmand's translations of Rumi's poetry, printed in both English & Persian and Jen Robinson's Hieroglyphic Puzzle. Joe Elliot will bring candy. Lots of candy. There will also be back issues, stickers & plenty of collectors-edition posters. $5 will get you in. 212.533.9317 or lungfull@rcn.com will get you more information. Images from the event will appear the very next day on www.internetcamera.com, gallery name: zinc -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:17:46 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sylvester Pollet Subject: Nudelism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What's the point of this, exactly, Nudel? Just the pleasure of general curmudgeonliness? You don't know diddly about Buddhism. Sylvester >Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 01:45:37 -0400 >From: Harry Nudel >Subject: m&r..definition...... > > Buddhist Compassion...the compassion for ALL sentient beings.... just >as long as it's not the 'messy' person breathing, smelling & dead next to >you......Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:38:10 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Nick Zurbrugg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STEREO HEADS for Nick Zurbrugg Good and very new arrivals come to the web screen. I am more than other text series, an example of writing levels of consciousness. Little charity. This is happening suppressed. It's embarrassing my other image, an array of thinking my end. Poetry rants bare hands if he decided that this most of the power he could bop! Existence of an entirely different kind, to the world. No tears over me made it all don't know. Is this some unanticipated free world? Howd open, but not wide. Never leave yourself. This is the same logic. They wanted their yelling. The making history. The image on paper different to the feeling. It works and you forget. It's not sensory enjoyment. I needed to make art. --------------------------------------------------- I disassociate myself from the bombing of Afghanistan by UK government. Those responsible should be tried for murder --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:41:43 -0400 Reply-To: yakub_etc@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lorraine Graham Subject: Flyers: 'The Partnership of Nations is here to help' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Poetics- This is from CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/18/ret.flyers/index.html)-- the pamphlets/propaganda that the US is dropping (literally) on Afghanistan. As I'm sure many of you know, the US government formally "discourages" the press from printing translations of anything coming out of Afghanistan, Bin Laden...etc etc...Several people in the office where I work were "discouraged" from talking to the press about US special operations and so on. The Administration appears to be puzzled as to why there is still so much anti-American sentiment... I'm sure these flyers will help. (sarcasm). Yikes! -Lorraine Graham www.yakub-beg.com Flyers: 'The Partnership of Nations is here to help' Theme: The Partnership of Nations is here to help (1) On September 11th , the United States was the target of terrorist attacks, leaving no choice but to seek justice for these horrible crimes. We are here to take measures against the terrorists that have rooted themselves in your country. It is not you, the honorable people of Afghanistan, who are targeted, but those who would oppress you, seek to bend you to their own will, and make you their slaves. These terrorists and oppressors are currently in your country, undermining your economy, your rights as citizens, and your place within the international community. It does not have to stay that way. But the battle against these fanatics that feed off the blood of the Afghan people cannot be won without your help. It will take the combined efforts of the international community and you to remove these evil people from Afghanistan. Take the following action: Do not give food, shelter, or any type of aid to the Taliban or Usama bin Laden. This will be a great help in the effort. We have no wish to hurt you, the innocent people of Afghanistan. Stay away from military installations, government buildings, terrorist camps, roads, factories, or bridges. If you are near these places, then you must move away from them. Seek a safe place, and stay well away from anything that might be a target. We do not wish to harm you. With your help, this conflict can be over soon. And once again, Afghanistan will belong to you, and not to tyrants or outsiders. Then, you will reclaim your place among the nations of the world, and return to the honored place your country once held. Remember, we are here to help you to be free from this terrorism, despotism, and the fear and pain they bring with them. This is the best way to restore honor and dignity and make your country a free nation once again. Theme: The Partnership of Nations is here to help (2) Since the time of the Soviet invasion, Afghanistan has been a country in conflict. War and strife have been a constant part of the daily life of its citizens. Yet time and again, it has not been the people of Afghanistan, but outsiders who have been the real cause of this pain and destruction. Latest in the line of those who would aid in the destruction of this once great country is Usama bin Laden and the despots called the Taliban who now rule. These people have continually aided in the destruction and deterioration of Afghanistan. Afghanistan's economy is nearly non-existent, and because of the Taliban's support for terrorists such as Usama bin Laden, Afghanistan has been shunned by the international community. Even now the Taliban undermines the lives and rights of the people of Afghanistan, treating women as little more than slaves, and treating the rest of the population little better. The so-called leaders of the Taliban are disrespectful of Afghan cultural and Islamic tradition and its proud past. Now they have brought the anger of the United States and the international community upon themselves through their terrorist actions. Now, forces are coming into Afghanistan from outside places to bring justice because of the atrocities committed by Usama bin Laden and the Taliban. With the help of the nations of the world, and the people of Afghanistan, the United States will now remove these tyrants from Afghanistan. It will take a combined effort to do this, and every bit of help is needed. Try to find ways to ignore the Taliban and Usama bin Laden's requests for help, and do not give them food or shelter. The United States does not want to injure or kill innocent civilians, destroy homes, hospitals, mosques, or other public places. This is most easily avoided if people stay away from military installations, Taliban government buildings, the camps of Usama bin Laden, and other places where terrorists gather. Afghanistan can once again become the proud member of the international community that it once was. The people of Afghanistan can once again take control of their own land and set it free from the foreign invaders and local tyrants who have inserted themselves into its power structure. Help free yourselves from despotism and rejoin the nations of the world. Theme: The Partnership of Nations is here to help (3) "Just as the blood stains the apron of the butcher, unjustly shed blood remains on the hands of the murderer." [Afghan poem] On September 11, 2001 thousands of people were killed en masse in the United States. Among them ... was a two-year-old girl. Barely able to stand or dress herself. Did she deserve to die? Why was she killed you ask? Was she a thief? What crime had she committed? She was merely on a trip with her family to visit her grandparents. Policemen ... firefighters ... teachers ... doctors ... mothers ... fathers ... sisters ... brothers all killed. ... WHY? These people did nothing to warrant the kind of wrath inflicted upon them. Thousands of good people died on that day at the hands of terrorists. Deluded fighters that prey upon the unsuspecting and the innocent. They are cowards that hide in shadows and strike at the weak. They strike out at expectant mothers, the elderly, and at little children. They fire their weapons blindly inflicting death and destruction upon the innocent. They hide like cowards and strike from afar, then return to the safety of their shadows before they can be caught. They believe they are heroes, Ghazi warriors triumphing over the evil of the West. However the truth is .... They are murderers, and do not represent Islam. It is inconceivable that any country in the world would tolerate the kinds of horrific terrorism committed against the United States. It is now that we ask for your help and support in seeing those guilty for these crimes brought to justice. United States forces may be moving into or through your area in the future. Please, for your own safety, do not interfere with United States military operations. The United States forces are not here to occupy you, nor are they here to make you give up your proud heritage. We understand that your culture and heritage is important to you and we wish to disturb it as little as possible. However we must seek out justice for those who have fallen victim to terrorists. Terrorists and those who harbor terrorists must be stopped. With your support we will ensure that those guilty will be brought to justice. Theme: The Partnership of Nations is here to help (4) Dear Afghanistan ... A grave crime has been committed against the United States. Four of our planes have been hijacked, several buildings in our economic centers destroyed and more than 6,000 innocent people, hundreds of which were Muslim, were murdered by the hand of Usama bin Laden, Al Quaeda, his supporters, and the Taliban. We see these actions as acts of war. We will not sit idly by and do nothing in these times. However, we do not wish to spill the blood of innocent people, as did the cowardly terrorists. We do not blame the Muslims or Afghans for these attacks. We do not hold those who follow true Islam responsible. We will hunt down and punish these terrorists. They will pay with their blood. America is not against the beliefs of Islam, nor is it against Muslims. More than million Muslims live and worship Allah in peace in the United States, a number equal to almost half the population of Afghanistan. In the United States people of all religions live side by side in peace. Muslims living in America have the same rights to worship as any other citizen of any other religion. We are not here to attack your religion, or your way of life. We are attacking the terrorists and their hosts, the Taliban, for the atrocities committed against the United States. We do not wish to harm or occupy the people of Afghanistan. The terrorists see themselves as heroes, martyrs, and saviors. However, no nation or religion would tolerate the kinds of viscous unprovoked attacks like those committed against the United States. These acts of terror and violence are inexcusable in any culture, and we will bring to justice those who have committed these crimes. Theme: The Partnership of Nations is here to help (5) Attention Taliban! You are condemned. Did you know that? The instant the terrorists you support took over our planes, you sentenced yourselves to death. The Armed Forces of the United States are here to seek justice for our dead. Highly trained soldiers are coming to shut down once and for all Usama bin Laden's ring of terrorism, and the Taliban that supports them and their actions. Our forces are armed with state of the art military equipment. What are you using, obsolete and ineffective weaponry? Our helicopters will rain fire down upon your camps before you detect them on your radar. Our bombs are so accurate we can drop them right through your windows. Our infantry is trained for any climate and terrain on earth. United States soldiers fire with superior marksmanship and are armed with superior weapons. You have only one choice ... Surrender now and we will give you a second chance. We will let you live. If you surrender no harm will come to you. When you decide to surrender, approach United States forces with your hands in the air. Sling your weapon across your back muzzle towards the ground. Remove your magazine and expel any rounds. Doing this is your only chance of survival. Theme: The Partnership of Nations is here to help (6) Taliban leaders! By harboring Al Quaeda and their leader Usama bin Laden you have declared war on the United States, and by doing this you have just guaranteed your own demise. Hand over these criminals and you will save yourselves from destruction. By not turning over Usama bin Laden and Al Quaeda to stand trial you are showing the world you are weak, and that you need a criminal organization and its leader to protect you. However, they cannot protect you from what will happen if you do not comply. Like all criminals they will try to hide from their impending punishment. They will leave you to fight the United States and our overwhelming military by yourselves. Our military is bigger, faster and stronger; with more modernized weapons and better-trained troops. You will be attacked by land, sea, and air. There will be no warning as to when and where we will attack. Destruction is imminent if our will is not met. Bin Laden may tell you he can protect you from the mighty United States, but all he can protect you from are unarmed innocent men, women, and children. He can have his subordinates hijack civilian airplanes and take bombs into civilian buildings, but he cannot save you from the justice of the United States. Resistance is futile, our goals will be achieved. If not willingly than by overwhelming force. You have but one choice, and that is to comply quickly, for time is short. You will suffer the same fate as the terrorist if you do not comply with our demand. Theme: Taliban actions are Non-Islamic (1) Tragedy struck the United States on 11 September 2001 when terrorist hijackers took over two Boeing 767 jets and two Boeing 757 jets. American Airlines and United Airlines flights were hijacked and used in the acts to kill over 6,500 innocent men, women, and children. Many of these people were not American; but representatives from 67 countries from all over the world. Many were even Muslims. The hijackers proceeded to crash the planes into World Trade Center Towers one and two. Another plane crashed on a field in Pennsylvania when heroic passengers retook control of the aircraft. Hundreds of innocent lives were lost on just the aircraft alone. Thousands are feared to have been lost in the attack on the former World Trade Center Towers, that collapsed as a result of the terrorist act. We ask that you, the true people of Afghanistan, help us bring Usama bin Laden and members of his terrorist group, Al Quaeda, to justice for crimes committed against innocent people. Not only have Usama bin Laden and Al Quaeda committed crimes against the United States, but they have also dishonored Afghanistan and helped in the continuation of bloodshed in your country. They are using your country as a nest of terrorism to kill your people and innocent Americans. These outsiders do not care about the welfare of Afghanistan, nor of their countries, and people all over the world. These terrorists are blackening the reputation of the people of Afghanistan and Islam. The people of Afghanistan are known for bravery and upholding honor. These terrorists, with their cowardice ruin this reputation. You can help by not interfering with United States troops or operations, by not supplying him or his supporters with food, water, or lodging. Small things such as these will make the biggest impact. United States forces do not want to see a senseless loss of life. We do not want to take over your nation; we want to give it back to its rightful owners, the people of Afghanistan. The United States wants to see a return to prosperity for your nation. With your help we can achieve this. If we work together Usama bin Laden, his supporters, and terrorists like them will no longer be able to incite fear in people around the world. One of the leaflets dropped over Afghanistan that depicts a radio transmitting tower and sketches of radios and tells times and radio stations to tune in to what the Dept. of Defense calls "Information Radio." Theme: Taliban actions are Non-Islamic (2) Do you enjoy being ruled by the Taliban? Are you proud to live a life of fear? Are you happy to see the place your family has owned for generations a terrorist training site? Are you proud to live under a government that harbors terrorists? Are you proud to live in a nation ruled by extreme fundamentalists? The Taliban have robbed your country of your heritage. They have destroyed your national monuments, and cultural artifacts. They rule by force, violence, and fear. They insist that their form of Islam is the one and only form, the true form, the divine form. They see themselves as religious experts. They seek to rob you and your nation of its past. That which has brought you together as a nation over the past thousands of years is being slowly torn apart. They destroy your national treasures. They also harbor terrorists. United States forces have come to stop Usama bin Laden and to shut down the terrorist camps once and for all. United States forces are here to strike back at the Taliban and at the rest of Bin Laden's fighters. It is the United States' right as a nation to seek justice for those killed in the attacks on the World Trade Center. Over 6500 people lost their lives in the attacks on the World Trade Center, many of whom were not American, but representatives from other countries around the world. Many were Muslim. Terrorists and those who harbor terrorists must be brought to justice. Do not interfere with United States military operations. Battlefields are places for soldiers, not civilians. Our soldiers are not here to take over your way of life. Your culture is important to you, and to us. We do not wish to destroy it. Theme: Taliban actions are Non-Islamic (3) Do you enjoy being ruled by the Taliban? Are you proud to live a life of fear? Are you happy to see the place your family has owned for generations a terrorist training site? Do you want a regime that is turning Afghanistan into the Stone Age and giving Islam a bad name? Are you proud to live under a government that harbors terrorists? Are you proud to live in a nation ruled by extreme fundamentalists? The Taliban have robbed your country of your culture and heritage. They have destroyed your national monuments, and cultural artifacts. They rule by force, violence, and fear based on the advice of foreigners. They insist that their form of Islam is the one and only form, the true form, the divine form. They see themselves as religious experts, even though they are ignorant. They kill, commit injustice, keep you in poverty and claim it is in the name of God. They seek to rob you and your nation of its past. That which is the source of pride and has brought you together as a nation in the past is being ripped apart. They destroy your national treasures and they also harbor terrorists. They keep people as if they are animals for the slaughter. They are not concerned with leaving your families fatherless and your mothers begging in the streets in order to feed their children. United States forces have come to stop Usama bin Laden and to shut down the terrorist camps once and for all. United States forces are here to strike back at the Taliban and Bin Laden's fighters. Tyrants and those who harbor terrorists must be brought to justice. It is the United States' right as a nation to seek justice for those killed in the attacks on the World Trade Center. Over 6500 people were killed in that attack. People from all over 67 nations of the world and from many religions. Please do not interfere with United States military operations. Our soldiers are not here to take over your way of life. Your culture is important to you, and to us. We wish for a better life for you, for the children of Afghanistan to live independently, free of foreign domination and oppression imposed by the Taliban's ways. Theme: Taliban actions are Non-Islamic (4) People of Afghanistan, do you support the puppet rulers of your nation and their political practices? How can you support the Taliban when they give refuge to Usama bin Laden, whose evil actions are aimed at Muslims and non-Muslims alike? The result of a terrorist attack does not differentiate between people. It kills people of all ages, races and religions. Usama bin Laden would have you believe he is for a united Islamic nation, but how can that be true when even his home nation has exiled him? Saudi Arabia exiled him in 1991 and in 1994 he lost his Saudi Arabian citizenship as a result of his terrorist activities. Usama bin Laden is a coward who hides behind cowardly attacks on innocent people, killing them because they disagree with his twisted, non-Islamic beliefs. The Taliban support his criminal and inhumane activities by doing nothing to bring him to justice. The Taliban regime is not even a recognized government by most of the world community. Yet its leaders dictate over you, when it is you, the honored people of Afghanistan, who should live under your own laws and beliefs and not the laws and beliefs of a terrorist supporting regime. Think of your children. Do you want them to live in fear of what one man and his supporters would do to them if their beliefs differed from his? What if he decides that not only Western nations pose a threat, but also Muslim nations that do not agree with his way of life? Contrary to his beliefs the United States is neither anti-Muslim, nor against the people of Afghanistan, but we are for an Afghanistan free from oppression, killing, and poverty. Theme: Taliban actions are Non-Islamic (5) Noble people of Afghanistan ... Today is a day of mourning for your country. Your history and culture are being destroyed. The Taliban have tried to erase your past to hide you from the truth. They have destroyed historical and religious monuments in order to instill their form of aberrant Islam. They say that they are doing it for your own protection. You have lived together for hundreds of years before the Taliban. What do the Taliban give you? Do they listen to you? Do they supply you with food and medicine or do they hoard it for themselves? The Taliban tells you that dying for their fanatical form of Islam is a proud and noble thing to do. They encourage you to be martyrs, but in reality, they are cowards hiding behind farmers, and families. If dying for this form of Islam is noble, why doesn't Mullah Omar go to the fronts? He is enjoying his luxurious quarters and his wives while you are asked to die. The Taliban has tarnished the name of your proud nation by making it a haven for criminals and terrorists. They have provided supplies intended for the people of Afghanistan to Usama bin Laden and Al Quaeda. Their actions are bringing war to your homes. Is this what you want? Is this the kind of future you want for your children? Speak out! Stand up and let your voice be heard! Resist, and encourage your friends and neighbors to resist! The Taliban have gone too far! The Taliban can only rule if you choose to let them. Theme: Aid will be brought to your location Attention! People of Afghanistan, United States forces will be moving through your area. We are not here to harm you! We are here for Usama bin Laden, Al Quaeda, and those who protect them! Please, for you own safety, stay off bridges and roadways, and do not interfere with our troops or military operations. If you do this, you will not be harmed. Do not approach United States forces. Stay in your homes! We are not here to occupy you, or to overrun your country. If you see United States forces, you need to find shelter and not leave it until we have left the area. This is for your protection. Roadways and bridges will be unsafe for travel. Your home will be the safest place. Do not listen to the Taliban or Al Quaeda. We will not harm you if you comply with these instructions. Once again, we do not want to harm any innocent people. Theme: Safety and Security Attention, people of Afghanistan! Aid is being dropped by plane at a very high altitude using large parachutes. These parachutes slow their descent. Despite the parachutes, the bundles will still fall very fast. These bundles will drift and shift directions due to wind. These bundles may appear small, but they are in fact very large and heavy. Do not stand directly below them. Let the bundles land and settle before you approach them. If you follow these instructions you will not be injured. The bundles are filled with food, water, and medical supplies. The bundles will not contain any military related supplies or equipment. These have been given to you by the United States in an effort to show our support for the fair people of Afghanistan. The United States does not want you, the innocent people of Afghanistan, to suffer for the deeds of Al Quaeda and its leader Usama bin laden. That is why the United States has prepared and delivered these aid bundles. The United States can not warn you enough about the danger that you will put yourself in if you do not stay away from the bundles until they land. Once the bundles have landed and settled you can retrieve the supplies. These supplies are being sent to help you, because you did not commit the crimes against the United States, Al Quaeda and its supporters did. Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/18/ret.flyers/index.html Research Assistant China Program The Henry L. Stimson Center 11 Dupont Circle, NW Suite 900 Washington, DC 20036 Tel: (202) 223-5956 ext. 3470 Fax: (202) 238-9604 http://www.stimson.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:19:59 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: A Cultural History of the Penis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subj: [evol-psych] A Mind of Its Own: A Cultural History of the Penis Date: 10/18/2001 4:46:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: ian.pitchford@scientist.com (Ian Pitchford) Reply-to: Ian.Pitchford@scientist.com (Ian Pitchford) To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com A Mind of Its Own: A Cultural History of the Penis by David M. Friedman Hardcover - 368 pages (October 30, 2001) Free Press; ISBN: 0684853205 AMAZON - US http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684853205/darwinanddarwini/ AMAZON - UK http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684853205/humannaturecom/ David M. Friedman's A Mind of Its Own is a cultural examination of the penis, from ancient Sumer to the present. Friedman convincingly suggests that humankind's various and contradictory attitudes toward the penis have been instrumental in mapping the course of both Western civilization and world history. Friedman begins with pagan attitudes: ancient Greeks considered the penis a measure of a man's proximity to "divine power," while the Romans, whose generals were known to promote soldiers based on penis size, saw it as an indicator of earthly strength. Thanks to the spread of Christianity, the "sacred staff became the demon rod"--a fearful manifestation of the devil. Theology gave way, grudgingly, to science. In the Renaissance, anatomical discoveries allowed for the possibility that this "agent of death" was, in fact, only a "blameless instrument of reproduction." Subsequent chapters discuss the penis's role as a racial yardstick; its "defining role in human personality" as asserted by Freud; its politicization; and finally, through the likes of Viagra, its objectification as a "thing ... impervious to religious teachings, psychological insights, racial stereotypes and feminist criticism." Friedman's study of what he calls the "symbolic muscle" is filled with fascinating side trips (castration cults, ancient graffiti, the anti-masturbation "semen-retention movement," aphrodisiacs through the ages, and, to modern eyes, risible medical practices with the likes of monkey glands), as well as a rich cast of characters (Leonardo da Vinci, John Kellogg of cornflake fame, Kate Millet, Clarence Thomas, and Walt Whitman). The book is informal, but well researched (and documented), entertaining but not cute, wide-ranging but not sketchy, and simultaneously irreverent and respectful. --H. O'Billovich From Publishers Weekly starred review "Over time, the penis has been deified, demonized, secularized, racialized, psychoanalyzed, politicized and, finally, medicalized," declares freelance journalist Friedman in a serious yet entertaining book that weaves together an enormous amount of material. In the Greek and Roman worlds, statues of figures with erections were commonplace, he observes, though by the Christian era, the penis had become a source of evil and weakness. Doctors and scientists from da Vinci onward "deflat[ed] the religious rhetoric" and scrutinized the male organ sometimes with untoward results, as when American "semen science" led to the creation of antimasturbation products such as Graham crackers. Western man's fear of the African phallus undergirded colonialism and slavery, and resonates to this day, Friedman argues, as was evident in the case of Clarence Thomas. If some of Freud's case histories might be questioned, Friedman notes how the psychoanalytic interpretation enduringly places the penis and associated anxieties at the fulcrum of society. The rise of feminism put the penis in its place, as The Hite Report pointed out the limits of conventional intercourse in moving women to orgasm, and as Andrea Dworkin exposed penile pathology though the author concludes that male sexuality arises more out of evolutionary strategy than misogyny. His final and liveliest chapter concerns the medicalization of the penis, culminating in Viagra. Even though Friedman quotes a (female) sex therapist on the limits of such drugs, he concludes optimistically that "the erection industry" has performed a paradigm shift, allowing man to impose his will below his belt. The book has a few gaps -- there's little about the gay penis -- but it should reign as the seminal treatment of this topic (and inspire many more puns). Copyright 2001 Cahners Business Information, Inc. From Library Journal An impressively research-prone journalist who has written for Esquire, Rolling Stone, and the Village Voice, Friedman has prepared a catalog of happenings and horrors perpetrated on the penis or in the name of the penis as an organ and as an idea. His opening chapter about religious teachings begins with a ghastly story about the torture of a witch who "knew the Devil's penis." Next come Tissot and the medical antimasturbation mania, plus biological discoveries about the organ. This is followed by an even more terrible and detailed discussion of racist stereotypes and violence relating to supposedly macrophallic Africans. Chapter 4 belongs to Dr. Freud, Chapter 5 to feminist criticism, and Chapter 6 to Viagra and the erection industry since ancient Egypt. Referenced in considerable (if not perfect) detail, the work could be improved only by textual subheads and (perhaps) illustrations. A fascinating and sobering complement to more lighthearted books, including Maggie Paley's The Book of the Penis (Grove, 2001), Joseph Cohen's The Penis Book (Konemann, 2001), and Kit Schwartz's The Male Member (St. Martin's, 1985). Recommended for collections in history, popular culture, and sexology. Martha Cornog, Philadelphia Copyright 2001 Cahners Business Information, Inc. Book Description Whether enemy or ally, demon or god, the source of satisfaction or the root of all earthly troubles, the penis has forced humanity to wrestle with its enduring mysteries. Here, in an enlightening and entertaining cultural study, is a book that gives context to the central role of the penis in Western civilization. A man can hold his manhood in his hand, but who is really gripping whom? Is the penis the best in man -- or the beast? How is man supposed to use it? And when does that use become abuse? Of all the bodily organs, only the penis forces man to confront such contradictions: something insistent yet reluctant, a tool that creates but also destroys, a part of the body that often seems apart from the body. This is the conundrum that makes the penis both hero and villain in a drama that shapes every man -- and mankind along with it. In A Mind of Its Own, David M. Friedman shows that the penis is more than a body part. It is an idea, a conceptual but flesh-and-blood measuring stick of man's place in the world. That men have a penis is a scientific fact; how they think about it, feel about it, and use it is not. It is possible to identify the key moments in Western history when a new idea of the penis addressed the larger mystery of man's relationship with it and changed forever the way that organ was conceived of and put to use. A Mind of Its Own brilliantly distills this complex and largely unexamined story. Deified by the pagan cultures of the ancient world and demonized by the early Roman church, the organ was later secularized by pioneering anatomists such as Leonardo da Vinci. After being measured "scientifically" in an effort to subjugate some races while elevating others, the organ was psychoanalyzed by Sigmund Freud. As a result, the penis assumed a paradigmatic role in psychology -- whether the patient was equipped with the organ or envied those who were. Now, after being politicized by feminism and exploited in countless ways by pop culture, the penis has been medicalized. As no one has before him, Friedman shows how the arrival of erection industry products such as Viagra is more than a health or business story. It is the latest -- and perhaps final -- chapter in one of the longest sagas in human history: the story of man's relationship with his penis. A Mind of Its Own charts the vicissitudes of that relationship through its often amusing, occasionally alarming, and never boring course. With intellectual rigor and a healthy dose of wry humor, David M. Friedman serves up one of the most thought-provoking, significant, and readable cultural works in years. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:10:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: Re: involvement/action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Hassen, I like your idea of a website for the family and friends. I just wrote a note I normally wouldn't have to an aunt who sent me this new "school prayer" poem which really bummed me out, though not quite as much as it bummed out my sister who is a confirmed atheist. She kept quiet, but I think now's the time to speak, and also to listen. If we can't hear out our relatives, who can we hear out? Shuddering remembrances of discussing Anita Hill with my Gramps, tho that didn't turn out so badly (the discussion, that is). I also want a tshirt, though I don't know what it ought to say. Is Eileen Myles available to run for office? Who would you choose? I would choose Maxine Hong Kingston. keep truckin, Elizabeth Treadwell http://www.poetrypress.com/avec/populace.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:48:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Subject: Living Root Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those who missed it the first time around, LIVING ROOT: A MEMOIR, has just been issued in paperback by SUNY. "Living Root belongs firmly in the company of such unique documents as Charles Olson's Mayan Letters, Nathaniel Tarn's "Child as Father to Man in the American Uni-Verse," and most especially Robert Duncan's The Truth and Life of Myth"--Cross Cultural Poetics. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:23:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Panel on Dissent (Vancouver) & "War Frenzy" by Sunera Thobani Comments: To: ksw-general@sfu.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Panel on Dissent Saturday, 20 October, 3 pm Iron Workers' Building 2415 Columbia Street (at 8th, one block North of Broadway) Vancouver BC Canada Sunera Thobani, Professor, Centre for Womens' Studies, UBC Judy Rebick, Journalist and former President of National Action on the Status of Women Valerie Raoul, Professor, Womens' Studies and French, UBC Paul Kellogg, Editor, Socialist Worker List of Sponsors to be announced. The text of Sunera Thobani's recent speech: http://print.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=923&group=webcast Transcript provided by the Cable Public Affairs Channel. WAR FRENZY Sunera Thobani (circulated to migrant-committee list serve based at Simon Fraser University on October 15) My recent speech at a women’s conference on violence against women has generated much controversy. In the aftermath of the terrible attacks of September 11, I argued that the U.S. response of launching ‘America’s new war’ would increase violence against women. I situated the current crisis within the continuity of North/South relations, rooted in colonialism and imperialism. I criticized American foreign policy, as well as President Bush’s racialized construction of the American Nation. Finally, I spoke of the need for solidarity with Afghan women’s organizations as well as the urgent necessity for the women’s movement in Canada to oppose the war. Decontextualized and distorted media reports of my address have led to accusations of me being an academic impostor, morally bankrupt and engaging in hate-mongering. It has been fascinating to observe how my comments regarding American foreign policy, a record well documented by numerous sources whose accuracy or credentials cannot be faulted, have been dubbed ‘hate-speech.’ To speak about the indisputable record of U.S. backed coups, death squads, bombings and killings ironically makes me a ‘hate-monger.’ I was even made the subject of a ‘hate-crime’ complaint to the RCMP, alleging that my speech was a ‘hate-crime.’ Despite the virulence of these responses, I welcome the public discussion my speech has generated as an opportunity to further the public debate about Canada’s support of America’s new war. When I made the speech, I believed it was imperative to have this debate before any attacks were launched on any country. Events have overtaken us with the bombing of Afghanistan underway and military rule having been declared in Pakistan. The need for this discussion has now assumed greater urgency as reports of casualties are making their way into the news. My speech at the women’s conference was aimed at mobilizing the women’s movement against this war. I am now glad for this opportunity to address wider constituencies and in different fora. First, however, a few words about my location: I place my work within the tradition of radical, politically engaged scholarship. I have always rejected the politics of academic elitism which insist that academics should remain above the fray of political activism and use only disembodied, objectified language and a ‘properly’ dispassionate professorial demeanor to establish our intellectual credentials. My work is grounded in the politics, practices and languages of the various communities I come from, and the social justice movements to which I am committed. ON AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY In the aftermath of the terrible September 11th attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, the Bush administration launched “America’s War on Terrorism.” Eschewing any role for the United Nations and the need to abide by international law, the US administration initiated an international alliance to justify its unilateral military action against Afghanistan. One of its early coalition partners was the Canadian government which committed its unequivocal support for whatever forms of assistance the United States might request. In this circumstance, it is entirely reasonable that people in Canada examine carefully the record of American foreign policy. As I observed in my speech, this record is alarming and does not inspire confidence. In Chile, the CIA-backed coup against the democratically elected Allende government led to the deaths of over 30,000 people. In El Salvador, the U.S. backed regime used death squads to kill about 75,000 people. In Nicaragua, the U.S. sponsored terrorist contra war led to the deaths of over 30,000 people. The initial bombing of Iraq left over 200,000 dead, and the bombings have continued for the last ten years. UNICEF estimates that over one million Iraqis have died, and that 5,000 more die every month as a result of the U.N. imposed sanctions, enforced in their harshest form by U.S. power. The list does not stop here. 150,000 were killed and 50,000 disappeared in Guatemala after the 1954 CIA-sponsored coup; over 2 million were killed in Vietnam; and 200,000 before that in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki nuclear attacks. Numerous authoritarian regimes have been backed by the United States including Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the apartheid regime in South Africa, Suharto’s dictatorship in Indonesia, Marcos in the Philippines, and Israel’s various occupations of Lebanon, the Golan Heights and the Palestinian territories. The U.S. pattern of foreign intervention has been to overthrow leftist governments and to impose right wing regimes which in turn support U.S. interests, even if this means training and using death squads and assassinating leftist politicians and activists. To this end, it has a record of treating civilians as entirely expendable. It is in this context that I made my comment that the United States is the largest and most dangerous global force, unleashing horrific levels of violence around the world, and that the path of U.S. foreign policy is soaked in blood. The controversy generated by this comment has surprisingly not addressed the veracity of this assessment of the U.S. record. Instead, it has focused on my tone and choice of words (inflammatory, excessive, inelegant, un-academic, angry, etc.). Now I have to admit that my use of the words ‘horrific violence’ and ‘soaked in blood’ is very deliberate and carefully considered. I do not use these words lightly. To successive United States administrations the deaths resulting from its policies have been just so many statistics, just so much ‘collateral damage.’ Rendering invisible the humanity of the peoples targeted for attack is a strategy well used to hide the impact of colonialist and imperialist interventions. Perhaps there is no more potent a strategy of dehumanization than to proudly proclaim the accuracy and efficiency of ‘smart’ weapons systems, and of surgical and technological precision, while rendering invisible the suffering bodies of these peoples as disembodied statistics and mere ‘collateral damage.’ The use of embodied language, grounded in the recognition of the actual blood running through these bodies, is an attempt to humanize these peoples in profoundly graphic terms. It compels us to recognize the sheer corporeality of the terrain upon which bombs rain and mass terror is waged. This language calls on ‘us’ to recognize that ‘they’ bleed just like ‘we’ do, that ‘they’ hurt and suffer just like ‘us.’ We are complicit in this bloodletting when we support American wars. Witness the power of this embodiment in the shocked and horrified responses to my voice and my words, rather than to the actual horror of these events. I will be the first to admit that it is extremely unnerving to ‘see’ blood in the place of abstract, general categories and statistics. Yet this is what we need to be able to see if we are to understand the terrible human costs of empire-building. We have all felt the shock and pain of repeatedly witnessing the searing images of violence unleashed upon those who died in New York and Washington. The stories we have heard from their loved ones have made us feel their terrible human loss. Yet where do we witness the pain of the victims of U.S. aggression? How do we begin to grasp the extent of their loss? Whose humanity do we choose to recognize and empathize with, and who becomes just so much ‘collateral damage’ to us? Anti-colonial and anti-imperialist movements and theorists have long insisted on placing the bodies and experiences of marginalized others at the centre of our analysis of the social world. To fail to do so at this moment in history would be unconscionable. In the aftermath of the responses to my speech, I am more convinced than ever of the need to engage in the language and politics of embodied thinking and speaking. After all, it is the lives, and deaths, of millions of human beings we are discussing. This is neither a controversial nor a recent demand. Feminists (such as of Mahasweta Devi, Toni Morrison, Gayatri Spivak and Patricia Williams) have forcefully drawn our attention to what is actually done to women’s bodies in the course of mapping out racist colonial relations. Frantz Fanon, one of the foremost theorists of decolonization, studied and wrote about the role of violence in colonial social organization and about the psychology of oppression; but he described just as readily the bloodied, violated black bodies and the “searing bullets” and “blood-stained knives” which were the order of the day in the colonial world. Eduardo Galeano entitled one of his books The Open Veins of Latin America and the post-colonial theorist Achille Mbembe talks of the “mortification of the flesh,” of the “mutilation” and “decapitation” of oppressed bodies. Aime Cesaire’s poetry pulses with the physicality of blood, pain, fury and rage in his outcry against the domination of African bodies. Even Karl Marx, recognized as one of the founding fathers of the modern social sciences, wrote trenchant critiques of capital, exploitation, and classical political economy; and did not flinch from naming the economic system he was studying ‘vampire capitalism.’ In attempting to draw attention to the violent effects of abstract and impersonal policies, I claim a proud intellectual pedigree. INVOKING THE AMERICAN NATION In my speech I argued that in order to legitimize the imperialist aggression which the Bush administration is undertaking, the President is invoking an American nation and people as being vengeful and bloodthirsty. It is de rigueur in the social sciences to acknowledge that the notion of a ‘nation’ or a ‘people’ is socially constructed. The American nation is no exception. If we consider the language used by Bush and his administration to mobilize this nation for the war, we encounter the following: launching a crusade; operation infinite justice; fighting the forces of evil and darkness; fighting the barbarians; hunting down the evil-doers; draining the swamps of the Middle East, etc., etc. This language is very familiar to peoples who have been colonized by Europe. Its use at this moment in time reveals that it is a fundamentalist and racialized western ideology which is being mobilized to rally the troops and to build a national and international consensus in defence of ‘civilization.’ It suggests that anyone who hesitates to join in is also ‘evil’ and ‘uncivilized.’ In this vein, I have repeatedly been accused of supporting extremist Islamist regimes merely for criticizing US foreign policy and western colonialism. Another tactic to mobilize support for the war has been the manipulation of public opinion. Polls conducted in the immediate aftermath of the September 11 attacks were used to repeatedly inform us that the overwhelming majority of Americans allegedly supported a strong military retaliation. They did not know against whom, but they purportedly supported this strategy anyway. In both the use of language and these polls, we are witnessing what Noam Chomsky has called the “manufacture of consent.” Richard Lowry, editor of the National Review opined, “If we flatten part of Damascus or Tehran or whatever it takes, this is part of the solution.” President Bush stated, “We will bear no distinction between those who commit the terrorist attacks and those who harbour them.” Even as the bombing began last weekend, he declared that the war is “broader” than against just Afghanistan, that other nations have to decide if they side with his administration or if they are “murderers and outlaws themselves.” We have been asked by most public commentators to accept the calls for military aggression against “evil-doers” as natural, understandable and even reasonable, given the attacks on the United States. I reject this position. It would be just as understandable a response to re-examine American foreign policy, to address the root causes of the violent attacks on the United States, and to make a commitment to abide by international law. In my speech, I urged women to break through this discourse of ‘naturalizing’ the military aggression, and recognize it for what it is, vengeful retribution and an opportunity for a crude display of American military might. We are entitled to ask: Who will make the decision regarding which ‘nations’ are to be labeled as “murderers” and “outlaws”? Which notions of ‘justice’ are to be upheld? Will the Bush administration set the standard, even as it is overtly institutionalizing racial profiling across the United States? I make very clear distinctions between people in America and their government’s call for war. Many people in America are seeking to contest the ‘national’ consensus being manufactured by speaking out and by organizing rallies and peace marches in major cities, about which there has been very little coverage in Canada. Irresponsible media reporting of my comments which referred to Bush’s invocation of the American nation as a vengeful one deliberately took my words out of this context, repeating them in one television broadcast after another in a grossly distorted fashion. My choice of language was, again, deliberate. I wanted to bring attention to Bush’s right wing, fundamentalist leanings and to the neo-colonialist/imperialist practices of his administration. The words ‘bloodthirsty’ and ‘vengeful’ are designations most people are quite comfortable attributing to ‘savages’ and to the ‘uncivilized,’ while the United States is represented as the beacon of democracy and civilization. The words ‘bloodthirsty’ and ‘vengeful’ make us confront the nature of the ideological justification for this war, as well as its historical roots, unsettling and discomforting as that might be. THE POLITICS OF LIBERATING WOMEN I have been taken to task for stating that there will be no emancipation for women anywhere until western domination of the planet is ended. In my speech I pointed to the importance of Afghanistan for its strategic location near Central Asia’s vast resources of oil and natural gas. I think there is very little argument that the West continues to dominate and consume a vast share of the world’s resources. This is not a controversial statement. Many prominent intellectuals, journalists and activists alike, have pointed out that this domination is rooted in the history of colonialism and rests on the ongoing maintenance of the North/South divide, and that it will continue to provoke violence and resistance across the planet. I argued that in the current climate of escalating militarism, there will be precious little emancipation for women, either in the countries of the North or the South. In the specific case of Afghanistan, it was the American administration’s economic and political interests which led to its initial support for, and arming of, Hekmatyar’s Hezb i Islami and its support for Pakistan’s collaboration in, and organization of, the Taliban regime in the mid-1990s. According to the Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid, the United States and Unocal conducted negotiations with the Taliban for an oil pipeline through Afghanistan for years in the mid-1990s. We have seen the horrendous consequences this has had for women in Afghanistan. When Afghan women’s groups were calling attention to this U.S. support as a major factor in the Taliban regime’s coming to power, we did not heed them. We did not recognize that Afghan women’s groups were in the front line resisting the Taliban and its Islamist predecessors, including the present militias of the Northern Alliance. Instead, we chose to see them only as ‘victims’ of ‘Islamic culture,’ to be pitied and ‘saved’ by the West. Time and time again, third world feminists have pointed out to us the pitfalls of rendering invisible the agency and resistance of women of the South, and of reducing women’s oppression to various third world ‘cultures.’ Many continue to ignore these insights. Now, the U.S. administration has thrown its support behind the Northern Alliance, even as Afghan women’s groups oppose the U.S. military attacks on Afghanistan, and raise serious concerns about the record of the Northern Alliance in perpetuating human rights abuses and violence against women in the country. If we listen to the voices of these women, we will very quickly be disabused of the notion that U.S. military intervention is going to lead to the emancipation of women in Afghanistan. Even before the bombings began, hundreds of thousands of Afghan women were compelled to flee their homes and communities, and to become refugees. The bombings of Kabul, Kandahar, Jalalabad and other cities in the country will result in further loss of life, including the lives of women and children. Over three million Afghan refugees are now on the move in the wake of the U.S. attacks. How on earth can we justify these bombings in the name of furthering women’s emancipation? My second point was that imperialism and militarism do not further women’s liberation in westerm countries either. Women have to be brought into line to support racist imperialist goals and practices, and they have to live with the men who have been brutalized in the waging of war when these men come back. Men who kill women and children abroad are hardly likely to come back cured of the effects of this brutalization. Again, this is not a very controversial point of view. Women are taught to support military aggressions, which is then presented as being in their ‘national’ interest. These are hardly the conditions in which women’s freedoms can be furthered. As a very small illustration, just witness the very public vilification I have been subjected to for speaking out in opposition to this war. I have been asked by my detractors that if I, as a woman, I am so critical of western domination, why do I live here? It could just as readily be asked of them that if they are so contemptuous of the non-western world, why do they so fervently desire the oil, trade, cheap labour and other resources of that world? Challenges to our presence in the West have long been answered by people of colour who say, We are here because you were (are?) there! Migrants find ourselves in multiple locations for a myriad of reasons, personal, historical and political. Wherever we reside, however, we claim the right to speak and participate in public life. CLOSING WORDS…. My speech was made to rally the women’s movement in Canada to oppose the war. Journalists and editors across the country have called me idiotic, foolish, stupid and just plain nutty. While a few journalists and columnists have attempted balanced coverage of my speech, too many sectors of the media have resorted to vicious personal attacks. Like others, I must express a concern that this passes for intelligent commentary in the mainstream media. The manner in which I have been vilified is difficult to understand, unless one sees it as a visceral response to an ‘ungrateful immigrant’ or an uppity woman of colour who dares to speak out. Vituperation and ridicule are two of the most common forms of silencing dissent. The subsequent harassment and intimidation which I have experienced, as have some of my colleagues, confirms that the suppression of debate is more important to many supporters of the current frenzied war rhetoric than is the open discussion of policy and its effects. Fortunately, I have also received strong messages of support. Day by day the opposition to this unconscionable war is growing in Canada and all over the world. I would like to thank all of my family, friends, colleagues and allies who have supported and encouraged me. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:38:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: Drunken Boat, Fall/Winter 2001 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Friends, Drunken Boat's third issue is now up at: http://www.drunkenboat.com The journal, if you're not familiar with it, is dedicated to bringing together the best of more traditional forms of representation, like poetry and prose, with works of art endemic to the medium of the web, like hypertext, sound, video and digital animation. We're also committed to the egalitarian ideal of making works of art readily accessible to wide audiences. This third installment is a special double issue loosely gathered around the theme of ethnopoetics (though the utility of said term is up for debate). We are featuring over fifty contributors constituting a range the likes of which we believe may never have inhabited the same space before. Contributors include Mark Amerika, Charles Bernstein, Alice Fulton, Wes Meyer, T'ai Freedom Ford, Heather McHugh, Timothy Liu, David Daniels and Naomi Maruta, among many others. Please feel free to write to us with your comments, questions, responses, vituperations and/or accolades. Our next reading period will begin at the end of this year and anyone interested in submitting work should email: editors@drunkenboat.com A special thanks also to all of our contributors and supporters who have made this issue possible. Thanks for your support. Best, Ravi Shankar ------------------------------------------- editor, Drunken Boat http://www.drunkenboat.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:43:49 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: Samizdat/Surrealist Update MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey all. There are still a few free issues of Samizdat #8 left, but as usual, they're going fast... For those of you who want to know more about some of the BELGIAN SURREALISTS in Samizdat #8, I've just heard that the new Exquisite Corpse is up, and has some poems by the two of the same guys, Gabriel and Mrcel Piqueray. Here's the URL and a blurb: http://www.corpse.org/ GABRIEL and MARCEL PIQUERAY were Belgian surrealist writers, most active in the Forties and Fifties, and for that they are being punished here in translation by ROBERT ARCHAMBEAU and JEAN-LUC GARNEAU! By the way, Andrei Codrescu, who edits the Corpse, was just up here at Lake Forest for a reading, and did a great job. There's some wierd kind of Codrescu-Samizdat harmonic convergence going on, too: we're including an Anselm Hollo chapbook with the mag, and Andrei's got some kind words about Hollo on his own website's "message du jour" at: http://www.codrescu.com/message/index.html Bob Archambeau ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 05:02:35 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: billy little Subject: Here:this poem is missing five words of yours Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 blackberries seiners gillnetters wharf salmonberries kale crows cedar douglas fir alder maple blue spruce cherry plum apple peach pear quince apricot fig rasberries jerusalem artichoke potatos hens raven herons bald eagles osprey b orage chickweed kelp oak nettles oysters mussles razorbacks geoducks abalone starfish glaucous gulls harlequin ducks lighthouse log strew beaches barnacles limpets dentalions amonites cows horses deer juniper willow cottonwood balsam watercress mustard chocolate lilies tigh lilies rhododendrons begonias hemlock amanita muscaria morels psylocibin cannabis sage burdock echinacea puffballs ocean spray st ann's lace balm of gilead rock cod ling cod dogfish herring mackerel salmon cormorant loon forest cliff arbutus garry oaks comus mink possum sphagnum moss ivy crocuses irises tulips roses skunk cabbage bullrushes pampas grass fiddlehead pussywillows swallows wrens ljuncoes redwing blackbirds red tailed hawk grouse towhees garden snakes dragonflies fer ry dock pub coop store firehall dental bus medical clinic primary school library grassy point phipps point spray point dunlop point fossil beach galleon beach sandpiper beach shingle spit bula creek strachan valley little tribune whaling station beans brocoli corn leeks shallots garlick onions mount geoffrey georgia strain lambert channel japanese current sheep recycling depot crown land diftwood shack campsite trailers denman island west lasqueti island sout texada island east quadra island north two ferries 30k town fishers loggers painters sculptors carpenters gardeners famers deejayus carvers potters bakers candlemakers jewelers electricians gravediggers highways yard graveyard plumbers welders mechanicks backhoes rototillers feenceposts styles canada geese sea lions seals sand sharks orcas beaver artesian well cistern sulfur water shake roof sod roof stack wood walls thatch roof tin roof straw bale studio cob gallery greenhouse outhouse woodstove propane stove septic ta nk dogwood sea anemones grapes tomatoes compost ant hill pileeated woodpecker kingfisher fruit bats barn owls horned owls tree frogs rhubarb millionaires counselors single moms tourist granchildren lawyers doctors judges astrologers amazons bha buddhist catholic est greek orthodox sikh unitarian yoga vedanta downs point ford cove geodesic dome chicken coop pigpen filberts walnuts stuccpoers insulators first responders acupuncturist saw mill operators firebreathers clarinetists guitarists sailors treeplanters(silvaculturists) environmentalists conservationists folk singers jjazz singers bagel makers broom lupine freesia wood ears climatus nurses pensioners treehouses preschool realtors fault line sting rays jellyfish spaghetti squash zuccine pumpkin acorn squash projectionsist massage therapist lnude beach chainsaws hatchets boatramp voles muskrat fieldmice peppermint basil thyme hiking trails bikepaths postoffice turkey vultures gravel pit cowichan toques felt bonnets piano players snooker players maarket players harmonica players accordion players fiddlers violinists haida weaving midlands weaving quiltmaking four pointer wooden lawn chairs plastic stacking chairs aluminum folding chairs slugs prawns scallops yew poplar indian princesses metis matriarchs sundancers bike racers pony club rain rain rain chaterelles shaggy main salal thimbleberry chistmasberry cactus holly honeysuckle green hair harmonizers organizers scrubbers scrutineers termites carpenter ants spiders leather jackets wasps honeybees japanese beetle pine beetles scarabs 1000 pop please send zonko@mindless.com five words you'd suggest he add to his poem HERE thanks& namaste, billy -- _______________________________________________ FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free! http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:32:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: table of images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = table of images alan, naked, on blankets curled up into skins, ice-spears against him, blue background, shaved body, black frame, hands paw-like against his side, greyday zeta-cot-tan, grrr, "i will take you into our death" azure, naked, flattened, pushed to the edge of the frame, increasing ice-speaks, blue background, blue frame, splayed hands, legs together, shaved body, greyday zeta-cot-tan, grrr, "night and anthrax" azure, naked, more central, rounded, less ice-spears, a carpet or blanket is visible, shaved body, swollen hands, ice-powders behind, grrr, blue frame, blue background, blackday zeta-tan-tan, "she fought for me" azure, naked, central, rounded, skirt around her waist, blanket-spears, face turned aside (you can see the face), one hand on her hair, the other above her breast, grrr, white-grey background and frame, white-day zeta, "kill us" azure, legs spread, naked, lying back, her chest marked, her hand on a cock, grrr, blanket-spears, shattered face, drawn face, greyday zeta, blue on blue, "he is mine" alan, naked, shaved body, his chest marked, lying back, his face clear, his hand raised, finger inserted, blanket spears, grrr, light grey and light grey, blackday zeta, "more" alan and azure, naked, shaved bodies, overly-rounded breasts and abdomens, small erect cock, inside a blasted building, facing out through the broken wall, his hands to his shattered face, grrr, her hands down at her side, whiteday tan-tan-tan, blue background against black frame azure, her face torn apart, stars, grrr, against black background, yellow frame, mouth, eye, and nose outlined, blackday tan-cot-tan, cragged skin, tented threshold, silent mouth, "nothing" azure, cunt and asshole, rotation ninety, grrr, metric transformation into flesh-cone, black space against dark-red background, dark-red frame, overly-rounded labia, protruding, greyday zeta, vanishing point of absent body, "holes" alan, erect cock, splayed hands, naked, against computer screen black, background of black, grey-white frame of all, legs wet, real-time white- day function, keyboard fingers, grrr, "more in desire, less in death" = ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:53:39 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Anti-Americanism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marc. This is well put. If Bin Laden etal were (and maybe they are) terrible people how much more horrible are they than say Hitler or (long list of "evil" people) are as or more so and they have been "dealt with" so to speak (atrocities continue nevertheless and have done seemingly forever by "all sides") then - well the West has survivied attacks on its feedom and integrity before: and the East has survived and parts of the East without our assistance. If, and only if , it can be shown and is demonstrated clearly to me in the coming days and months that Bin Laden IS more terrible than Bush, or Sharon, or Slobovich, or whomever: then we can all get behind the US and hunker down for a long struggle against a Religious Nazi: but if not....well its clear we need, vitally need, our wits and our skepticism and our ability to get information (eg from the women in Palestine, and yes, those in Pakistan, and the television channels WHEREVER by whom)...truth may be a casualty but dont let it get burnt to death by napalm and dont let Bush 2 of the (good mates apparently in business was his father with the Ladens) let his popaganda factory obscure what IS going on, whatever that is... Why isnt there an internmational conference involving all these peole with good info (uncommneted or censored) from all sides: Bin Laden - if he IS the monstor he is portrayed as - if he sees positive activity by the (worst side of the US and Britain) might change his "blanket hate" and become more tolerant: he certainly wont as he is being hounded. Meantime (possibly for wrong possibly right reasons) this War on Afghanistan is another Terrorism-Generator. And most of us simply dont know whose bullshitting who. WE have to seek solutions: possibly, or maybe I'm being stupidly naive, long term solutions that might lead eg to Palestine and Israel co-habiting in the Levant: the Taleban becoming "less strange"...just as it seems that the Iranian Muslims have become more "tolerant"....it seems to me that, by and large, the Arab and Middle Eastern people are more restraimed and civilised than we Westerners. Less bloody minded. At least two world wars in the twentieth century, Korea, Vietnam, the supression of Allende, Indonesia (millions murdered probably with CIA approval if not active involovement), Australia's continuing attack on the rights of Aboriginee peoples and the refusal of their fascist Prime Minister to help people from another country, New Zealand's gutless and slavish "yes sir no sir good on you Mr Bush we'll send about 100 SAS" !!!!!(and our less than enviable record vis a vis the Maori peole, death squads in South and Central America, shit stirring in Canada and Alaska over oil, huge squalor and suffering in Mexico etc, Yugoslava....it goes on.... Show me where the ships are steaming toward the US, the enormous arms build up etc...China could take out the US in a few weeks: why not attack China: after all its "Communist" and does nasty things to its citizens, why not bomb the hell out of the Chinese? "Becuase it might be a bit harder Sir?" "Correct!" "So that's why we blast the crap out of a lump of sand with not so many people grubbing around for food who cant shoot down our aeroplanes and we can maybe use the Aussies who just sent about 1000 SAS to do our dirty work Sir?" "Excellent Wiggins, but remember that as in Vietnam we can use black men ordupes from a thing called the N.A. in the front line if things get too tough, that sort of thing, take the rest of the day off." "Thank you sir, can I throw rocks at that funny man with the turban at the corner store...?" "Go on Wiggins, have a jolly day ...by the way the syllabus is being revised, so we wont be learning history for a while." "Why, sir?" "Welll Wiggins, its very complicated, but the winners write history and all that but if you go away and torment any one who is strange then you can all have lots of holidays and we wont try to teach you any history or poems or any of those hard things anymore." "Hooray! Oh Sir, you're such a brick!" "Thank you Wiggins,and take your flag...off you go!" Regards, Richard. ---- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Couroux" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 7:00 PM Subject: Anti-Americanism > The New McCarthyism > Charges of anti-Americanism are themselves anti-American > By George Monbiot > > Guardian 16 th October 2001 > > If satire died on the day Henry Kissinger received the Nobel Peace > Prize, then last week its corpse was exhumed for a kicking. As head of > the United Nations' peacekeeping department, Kofi Annan failed to > prevent the genocide in Rwanda or the massacre in Srebenica. Now, as > Secretary General, he appears to have intepreted the UN charter as > generously as possible to > allow the attack on Afghanistan to go ahead. > > Article 51 permits states to defend themselves against attack. It says > nothing about subsequent retaliation. It offers no licence to attack > people who might be harbouring a nation's enemies. The bombing of > Afghanistan, which began before the UN security council gave its > approval, is legally contentious. Yet the man and the organisation who > overlooked this obstacle > to facilitate war are honoured for their contribution to peace. > Endowments like the Nobel Peace Prize are surely designed to reward > self-sacrifice. Nelson Mandela gave up his liberty, FW de Clerk gave up > his power, and both were worthy recipients of the prize. But Kofi Annan, > the career bureaucrat, has given up nothing. He has been rewarded for > doing as he is told, while nobly submitting to a gigantic salary and > bottomless expense account. > > Among the other nominees for the prize was a group whose qualifications > were rather more robust. Members of Women in Black have routinely risked > their lives in the hope of preventing war. They have stayed in the homes > of Palestinians being shelled by Israeli tanks and have confronted war > criminals in the Balkans. They have stood silently while being abused > and spat at during vigils all over the world. But now, in this looking > glass world in which war is peace and peace is war, instead of winning > the peace prize the Women in Black have been labelled potential > terrorists by the FBI and threatened with a grand jury investigation. > > They are in good company. Earlier this year the director of the FBI > named the chaotic but harmless organisations Reclaim the Streets and > Carnival Against Capitalism in the statement on terrorism he presented > to the Senate. Now, partly as a result of his representations, the > senate's new terrorism bill, like Britain's Terrorism Act 2000, > redefines the crime so broadly that members of Greenpeace are in danger > of being treated like members of Al-Qaeda. The Bush doctrine -- if > you're not with us, you're against us -- is already being applied. > > This government by syllogism makes no sense at all. Osama Bin Laden and > Al-Qaeda have challenged the US government; ergo anyone who challenges > the government is a potential terrorist. That Bin Laden is, according to > US officials, a "fascist", while the other groups are progressives is > irrelevant: every public hand raised in objection will from now on be > treated as a public hand raised in attack. Given that OBL is not a > progressive but is a millionaire, it would surely make more sense to > round up and interrogate all millionaires. > > Lumping Women in Black together with Al-Qaeda requires just a minor > addition to the vocabulary: they have been jointly classified as > "anti-American". This term, as used by everyone from Donald Rumsfeld and > the Daily Mail to Tony Blair and several contributers to the Guardian, > applies not only to those who hate Americans, but also to those who have > > challenged US foreign and defence objectives. Implicit in this > denunciation is a demand for uncritical support, for a love of > government more consonant with the codes of Tsarist Russia than with the > ideals upon which the United States were founded. > > The charge of "anti-Americanism" is itself profoundly anti-American. If > the United States does not stand for freedom of thought and speech, for > diversity and dissent, then we have been deceived as to the nature of > the national project. Were the founding fathers to congregate today > to discuss the principles enshrined in their declaration of > independence, they would be denounced as "anti-American" and > investigated as potential terrorists. Anti-American means today > precisely what un-American meant in the 1950s. It is an instrument of > dismissal, a means of excluding your critics from rational discourse. > > Under the new McCarthyism, this dismissal extends to anyone who seeks to > promulgate a version of events other than that sanctioned by the US > government. On September 20, President Bush told us that "this is the > fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and > freedom." Two weeks later, Colin Powell met the emir of Qatar, to > request that progress, pluralism, tolerance and freedom be suppressed. > Al-Jazeera is one of the few independent television stations in the > Middle East, whose popularity is the result of its uncommon regard for > freedom of speech. It is also the only station permitted to operate > freely in Kabul: many of the images of the bombing of Afghanistan we've > seen on TV were recorded by its cameramen. Powell's request that it be > squashed was a pre-emptive strike against freedom, which, he hoped, > would prevent the world from seeing what was really happening once the > bombing began. > > Since then, both George Bush and Tony Blair have sought to prevent > Al-Jazeera from airing video statements by Bin Laden, on the grounds of > the preposterous schoolboy intrigue that they "might contain coded > messages". Over the weekend the government sought to persuade British > broadcasters to restrict their coverage of the war. Blair's spin doctors > warned "You can't trust them [the Taliban] in any way, shape, or form." > While true, this applies with equal force to the techniques employed by > Downing Street. When Alastair Campbell starts briefing journalists about > "Spin Laden", it's a case of the tarantula spinning against the money > spider. > > If we are to preserve the progress, pluralism, tolerance and freedom > which President Bush claims to be defending, then we must question > everything we see and hear. Though we know that governments lie to us in > wartime, most people seem to believe that this universal rule applies to > every conflict except the current one. Many of those who now accept that > babies were not thrown out of incubators in Kuwait, and that the > Belgrano was fleeing when she was hit, are also prepared to believe > everything we are being told about Afghanistan and the terrorism in the > United States. > > There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical. The magical appearance of > the terrorists' luggage, passports and flight manual looks rather too > good to be true. The dossier of "evidence" purporting to establish Bin > Laden's guilt consists largely of supposition and conjecture. The > ration packs being dropped on Afghanistan have no conceivable purpose > other than to create the false impression that starving people are being > fed. Even the anthrax scare looks suspiciously convenient. Just as the > hawks in Washington were losing the public argument about extending the > war to other countries, journalists start receiving envelopes full of > bacteria, which might as well have been labeled "a gift from Iraq". This > could indeed be the work of terrorists, who may have their own reasons > for widening the conflict, but there are plenty of other ruthless > operators who would benefit from a shift in public opinion. > > Democracy is sustained not by public trust but by public skepticism. > Unless we are prepared to question, to expose, to challenge and to > dissent, we conspire in the demise of the system for which our > governments are supposed to be fighting. The true defenders of America > are those who are now being told that they are anti-American. > > > > Captive State: the corporate takeover of Britain is now out in > paperback. > Around 400 of George Monbiot's essays and articles are now online at > http://www.monbiot.com > > http://www.zmag.org/newmcart.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:43:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...up,,, Jumpin' W.T.C. I dive both up & down the air is fire chi burns thru me a flame of breath.........DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:28:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Quasha Organization: Station Hill / Barrytown, Ltd. Subject: notice -- Station Hill e-address interruption - phone change MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Due to a systems glitch the Station Hill site has been inoperable for a couple of days -- http://www.stationhill.org. We hope for normal service to resume on Friday or Saturday (10-19 or 10-20) This means that e-mail (to gquasha@stationhill.org, publishers@stationhill.org, etc.) has been returned unread to sender. (Please resend until accepted!) It has also prevented our sending mail -- so please forgive our nonresponse. I have opened an alternative address for use in such times -- I will pick up mail here during disruptions at: gquasha@webjogger.net. If you write me here please cc gquasha@stationhill.org. Sorry for the inconvenience. NOTE NEW PHONE NUMBER: Station Hill Press / Barrytown, Ltd. has a new phone/fax number: (845) 340-4300. The mailing address remains the same (below), although the main office has temporarily moved to Kingston, NY. -- George Quasha Station Hill Press / Barrytown, Ltd. or The Institute for Publishing Arts, Inc. 124 Station Hill Road Barrytown, NY 12507 Voice & fax office: (845) 343-4300 Voice personal: (845) 758-5291 Personal e-mail: gquasha@stationhill.org & site: http://www.quasha.com The press e-mail: Publishers@stationhill.org & site http://www.stationhill.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:34:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: sad poem of propriety and sentiment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - sad poem of propriety and sentiment the last lonely man breathes the last free air. he meets the last lonely woman and she is singing. she is singing about clean and pure air. she says the air is always clean, the air is always pure. we are creatures in this lonely world. we never obeyed, we always breathed. in and out, in and out, and we're still here, and we're still here the last lonely man breathes the first free air. he has awakened from his slumber and he knows that the last lonely woman is singing the truth, oh why did no one listen? oh why did no one listen? there's a voiceover with a beautiful voice. the voiceover says everyone was scared to get sick and die. everyone was scared to breathe. so everyone held their official breath in their official space, and everyone died of fear and suffocation, and everyone died of fear and suffocation the last lonely woman said nothing's true, you're making it up again, just like before. in truth, billions of us are living, we're not lonely at all, we have good times, i come back from shopping and this is what happens. get me out of this poem, you don't even capitalize, what's wrong with you? aghast, I = ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:46:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: "4th GRADE / GREENDALE SCHOOL / FRANKLIN PARK, NJ 08852" (with poem) In-Reply-To: <290901c1577a$524d2a60$2e442718@ruthfd1.tn.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Although I see that it has been reported (smh.com.au) that there is no Greendale School in Franklin Park, NJ, as written in the upper right hand corner return address on the envelope sent to Senator Daschle --- "4th GRADE GREENDALE SCHOOL FRANKLIN PARK, NJ 08852" --- there is very definitely a well-known (among a certain circle), "virtual" Greendale school. Set in the invented town of Greendale, the school there, the "fourth" school in the town (as described on its on-line site, http://www.eclipse.net/~rms/grndale.html, coincidental with "4th GRADE") is Greendale's most important feature: ~all game players must enroll as students in that school.~ [First, also, the address contains a second "error" (or fiction, or "clue"): 08852 is not, strictly speaking, the zip code for Franklin Park (08853), but the zip code for a neighboring vicinity, Monmouth Junction. [Out of the billion plus web sites that Google.com shows, there may be surprisingly few Greendale schools proper, world-wide; quickly within the first 70 Google listings, only the same names recur: there is a Greendale School District and Greendale Middle School in Greendale, WI, and Greendale Schools in Worcester, MA, Abingdon, VA, Lawrenceburg, IN; but thereafter, one would have to look internationally: Quebec, Niagara Falls, CA, Wellington, NZ, a Greendale High School in Witbank, Mpumalanga, South Africa, and a Greendale Community School in Dublin, Ireland.] The virtual Greendale where the school is is described as "the site of the on-again, off-again Teenagers From Outer Space campaign" (!). Various web-based versions are given, and there is a book version. The first level of Google search shows it under the category "Games > Roleplaying". "Greendale sits south of a chain of respectable mountains, which decline into gentle foothills before flattening completely into what was recently farmland." It's a highly developed virtuality with roads, restaurants, etc. There is another interesting overlap with the events since the 11th: "Route 101 north heads straight into the mountains and through them, arriving at the big City some two hours hence (if you travel at the speed limit). To the east, Route 972 soon takes you to the Atlantic Ocean, and deposits you in the shore town of Seaside . . ." Seaside Heights, NJ (known as "Seaside," locally) is where the Thunderbird Motel is, one of the hideaways of the WTC terrorists (Although I am having trouble finding an on-line news report about that, it was reported within the first week after the 11th). ------------------------------------------------------- The creator of the virtual Greendale school posts a little poem on his home page: Please to remember Eleven September -- Hijack, destruction and plot. Our outraged reaction To terrorist action Should never be forgot. ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ "I made myself, and though no form have I, / Am fairer than the fairest you can spy" --- Francis Scott Key, "A Riddle" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:49:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david antin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear George and Richard I was amused to find some reflections on our current political situation I recently posted characterized as "right wing." I'm not sure that "right wing" and "left wing" are terribly meaningful terms any more, but I thought I would clarify my position for anyone interested. My considerations were purely practical. And I would hate to surrender practicality to "the right wing". If the plane you're flying in happens to be hi-jacked, it's probably more useful to kill the hi-jackers than to speculate on the nature of their grievances. In the case of our World Tower hijackers, they saved us the trouble and killed themselves. But these hijackers were just pawns in the game and this was simply a pawn sacrifice. (The chess metaphor may be specially appropriate, since the Arabs introduced the game into Europe.) To extend the metaphor, to play to a win or at least to a draw we have to go after the bishops,the rooks and the queen, and finally the king. In chess you're not offered a choice between peace and war. Either you defeat your enemy or your enemy defeats you. This seems to be our current situation. There is no way of making peace with the terrorist organizations. Nothing that the U.S. can do as a country or that its citizens can do as individuals can create peace with them. We're not at war with a nation or a religion. We're dealing with a fanatical twisted segment of the Islamic world-- sort of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Oliver North in Arab drag. This is why changes in US diplomacy are not relevant here. Sure it would be good to try to modify American foreign policy in dozens of places, but no beneficial change in American policy would affect our present enemies. Their recruits would never learn of them or they would hear of them only through the screen of propaganda created by their mullahs. But because this is not a traditional war fought against a nation, it's also not obvious that there is any reason for the prolonged bombing of Afghanistan. Nothing the Bush people say is very credible, and it's hard to believe that there are enough significant military targets in Afghanistan to justify it. There are probably only two plausible reasons for the bombing -- as domestic public relations for Bush, because it offers visible evidence of America striking back, and as a credible warning to Iraq, Libya, Syria etc, to keep out of it. If there is real action against bin Laden or the Taliban, it will be covert, while the bombers are probably killing more shepherds and goats than bin Laden supporters or Taliban soldiers. I can imagine reasonable people opposing the extended bombing. But I don't see any reason why a so-called "leftist' would object to a serious ground campaign aimed at overthrowing the Taliban, though I don't believe Bush will undertake it. As for Buddhism in this time, the only kind of Buddhism that might be politically valuable now is probably Zen, which you may remember was the religion of the Samurai. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:44:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: some deeper food for thought In-Reply-To: <293c01c1577c$55a93bc0$2e442718@ruthfd1.tn.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Since childhood is the key to eliminating all political >violence, rather than pursuing a lengthy holy war against terrorists >it might be better for the U.S. to back a new U.N.-sponsored Marshall >Plan for them that includes Community Parenting Centers, in order to >give their families the chance to evolve beyond the abusive family >system that is producing the terrorism, just as we did for Germany >after WWII for the families that produced Nazism. > Or we could just bomb them with copies of Dr. Spock. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 07:44:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: devineni@RATTAPALLAX.COM Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Readings=3A=20Robert=20Minhinnick=2C=20Rika=20Lesser=2C=20Samuel=20Menash?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?e=2C=2E=2E=2E?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends: Please join us for several special readings this weekend October 20 (Sat) at 2pm--Poetry Wales and Rattapallax Reading St. Agnes Branch, 444 Amsterdam Ave., New York City Robert Minhinnick, Lloyd Robson & Patrick Jones from Poetry Wales. Jeanne= Marie Beaumont, Allen C. Fischer, Veronica Golos, Nicholas Johnson, Richa= rd Levine, D.H. Melhem, Samuel Menashe, D. Nurkse, Maria Terrone & Michael T. Young from Rattapallax. Hosted by Robert Minhinnick and Martin Mitchell. FREE October 21 (Sun) at 6pm--Rika Lesser, Ron Price, Mark Nickels & Michael T. Young The Cornelia Street Caf=E9 29 Cornelia St. & West 4th St., NYC $6 October 21 (Sun) at 6:30 pm--Robert Minhinnick, Lloyd Robson, Patrick Jon= es & Stephanos Papadopoulos The New 14th St. Y, 344 East 14th St. & 1st. Ave., New York City $6 Robert Minhinnick is a poet, essayist and environmental campaigner. He ha= s published six volumes of poetry, most recently The Looters (1989), Hey Fa= tman (1994) and Badlands (1996) . He is the editor of Poetry Wales. Robert edi= ted The Green Agenda: Essays on the Environment of Wales, published by Seren in 1994. His first collection of essays Watching the Fire-Eater was Welsh= Book of the Year 1993. Rika Lesser is a poet and translator of Swedish and German literature. Sh= e is the author of three collections of poetry. Among her books of translat= ed poetry are Guide to the Underworld by Gunnar Ekel=F6f, which was awarded = the Landon Poetry Translation Prize from the Academy of American Poets (1982)= , and A Child Is Not a Knife: Selected Poems of G=F6ran Sonnevi. In 1996 sh= e was awarded the Poetry Translation Prize of the Swedish Academy. She has written several books of poetry including All We Need of Hell. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:50:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Lewis Subject: Re: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit H, Thanks for your question. Last night at a reading here in Buffalo a local poet , Judy Einach, announced to the assembled her candidacy as a write in for Mayor of Buffalo. Her e-mail is jeinach@yahoo.com if you'd like to talk to her about your wry but sometimes serious interest. She has a Masters Degree from Harvard and considers herself practiced in community problem solving. As far as preaching to the converted, I believe that poetry does provide an important level of support. It helps to keep those same converted refreshed and syched. If, in gathering together as poets or as an audience these same people feel buoyed to continue their efforts at effecting timely political change then poetry has had a positive effect. I believe it is possible that a point of poetic view can impact a reader and create change in thought. Karen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:49:59 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Comments: To: polity@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit US General Odham (apologies if I have misspelt his name) has just said on BBC Radio (GMT 16:35 approx), in response to the suggestion that bombing of Afghanistan should be suspended, that it is necessary "for us to proceed with reckless abandon" I emphasise those are his exact words and that, though abstracted, they retain his meaning It was pointed out that there are only a few weeks to go before winter sets in. He replied that supplies could be taken in after the winter But, said the interviewer, hundreds of people may die To which the general replied that in that case it would be the taliban's fault, and he refused to take moral responsibility I am wondering if this is a special moral inversion and dispensation for him, or for all those bombing Afghanistan; or perhaps it shows a recent development in philosophy and would be an acceptable defence for those attacking USA The general implicitly asserted that the Afghan government has a duty to accede to any demand the US government makes on it. Does anyone know which of the negotiated treaties to which US still subscribes that is in; and is it reciprocal? (Rhetorical questions) L --------------------------------------------------- I disassociate myself from the bombing of Afghanistan by UK government. Those responsible should be tried for murder --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:55:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Here:this poem is missing five words of yours In-Reply-To: <20011018210237.15784.qmail@av.iname.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >blackberries seiners gillnetters wharf salmonberries kale crows >cedar douglas fir alder maple blue spruce cherry plum apple peach >pear quince apricot fig rasberries jerusalem artichoke potatos hens >raven herons bald eagles osprey b orage chickweed kelp oak nettles >oysters mussles razorbacks geoducks abalone starfish glaucous gulls >harlequin ducks lighthouse log strew beaches barnacles limpets >dentalions amonites cows horses deer juniper willow cottonwood >balsam watercress mustard chocolate lilies tigh lilies rhododendrons >begonias hemlock amanita muscaria morels psylocibin cannabis sage >burdock echinacea puffballs ocean spray st ann's lace balm of gilead >rock cod ling cod dogfish herring mackerel salmon cormorant loon >forest cliff arbutus garry oaks comus mink possum sphagnum moss ivy >crocuses irises tulips roses skunk cabbage bullrushes pampas grass >fiddlehead pussywillows swallows wrens ljuncoes redwing blackbirds >red tailed hawk grouse towhees garden snakes dragonflies ferry dock >pub coop store firehall dental bus medical clinic primary school >library grassy point phipps point spray point dunlop point fossil >beach galleon beach sandpiper beach shingle spit bula creek strachan >valley little tribune whaling station beans brocoli corn leeks >shallots garlick onions mount geoffrey georgia strain lambert >channel japanese current sheep recycling depot crown land diftwood >shack campsite trailers denman island west lasqueti island sout >texada island east quadra island north two ferries 30k town fishers >loggers painters sculptors carpenters gardeners famers deejayus >carvers potters bakers candlemakers jewelers electricians >gravediggers highways yard graveyard plumbers welders mechanicks >backhoes rototillers feenceposts styles canada geese sea lions seals >sand sharks orcas beaver artesian well cistern sulfur water shake >roof sod roof stack wood walls thatch roof tin roof straw bale >studio cob gallery greenhouse outhouse woodstove propane stove >septic tank dogwood sea anemones grapes tomatoes compost ant hill >pileeated woodpecker kingfisher fruit bats barn owls horned owls >tree frogs rhubarb millionaires counselors single moms tourist >granchildren lawyers doctors judges astrologers amazons bha buddhist >catholic est greek orthodox sikh unitarian yoga vedanta downs point >ford cove geodesic dome chicken coop pigpen filberts walnuts >stuccpoers insulators first responders acupuncturist saw mill >operators firebreathers clarinetists guitarists sailors >treeplanters(silvaculturists) environmentalists conservationists >folk singers jjazz singers bagel makers broom lupine freesia wood >ears climatus nurses pensioners treehouses preschool realtors fault >line sting rays jellyfish spaghetti squash zuccine pumpkin acorn >squash projectionsist massage therapist lnude beach chainsaws >hatchets boatramp voles muskrat fieldmice peppermint basil thyme >hiking trails bikepaths postoffice turkey vultures gravel pit >cowichan toques felt bonnets piano players snooker players maarket >players harmonica players accordion players fiddlers violinists >haida weaving midlands weaving quiltmaking four pointer wooden lawn >chairs plastic stacking chairs aluminum folding chairs slugs prawns >scallops yew poplar indian princesses metis matriarchs sundancers >bike racers pony club rain rain rain chaterelles shaggy main salal >thimbleberry chistmasberry cactus holly honeysuckle green hair >harmonizers organizers scrubbers scrutineers termites carpenter ants >spiders leather jackets wasps honeybees japanese beetle pine beetles >scarabs 1000 pop > >please send zonko@mindless.com five words you'd suggest he add to >his poem HERE > spilt trend fraction awfully estranged -- George Bowering The smallest minority Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:59:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: Lily James at Small Press Traffic, Friday, 10/26 Comments: To: eliztj@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic presents Friday, October 26, 2001 at 7:30 p.m. Lily James Young upstart Lily James edited the early, smart, and wild online phenom, Postfeminist Playground; her first novel, High Drama in Fabulous Toledo, is out this year from Fiction Collective 2. A Detroit native, born 1972, James sprang onto the literary landscape in the FC2 anthology Chick-Lit, followed quickly by her first collection of stories, The Great Taste of Straight People (Black Ice Books, 1997). She joins us from her new home in Columbia, South Carolina, to read from High Drama, a novel Cris Mazza calls "hilarious and tragic...reverberat[ing] with questions about the nature and place of fiction and fantasy in human experience in a parody and exaggeration of that ultimate oxymoron: realistic fiction." Lynne Tillman has postponed her SPT reading as she prefers to stay in NYC at this time. $5-10 sliding scale, free to SPT members and the CCAC community. No one turned away for lack of funds. SPT events are held in: Timken Hall California College of Arts & Crafts 1111 - 8th Street San Francisco, California 94107 (near the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) 415/551-9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:50:26 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why does Bush keep talking about the Evil Dewars? I think the stuff is pretty good. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:06:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: poem In-Reply-To: <004201c157e2$a6fe65c0$6f1886d4@overgrowngarden> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I wanted to make a poem which makes no sense at all, even to the extent of violating the rules of syntax & grammar (it is easy to make nonsense poems where you write "normal" sentyences with funny nouns where the nouns belong, funny verbs where the verbs belong, etc., but I wanted to bend langugae maore than that...) As I reread, I realize that I was mostly unsuccessful in wroting true nonsense in the sense. Can anyone give examples of poems that break away from grammar (a lot of LANGUAGE poetry does this. I'm thinking of Jackson Mac Low's twenties series which used nouns and verbs with no apparent sentence structure. Chitchat at the Chancellor’s Tea seventeen tarantulas however? Bicentennial bash borders heretofore squeamishly, Wouldn’t you? hereditary green part-time arachnophobia visits Sweden chortling slowly yesterday “I can kangaroo, too” slowly quoth he charmingly, “in arpeggios.” logging circumscribed chartreuse philosophically in absentia summarily squats have another ghost minces Marcella although clam etiquette bursts, I intuit instead potatoes, purchase impressarios on the dole, of course convincingly underhanded among byzantine grapes blue leave-taking with supposedly cement Wunderbar! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:35:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: flashforward snapshot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remem ber sitting at the bar of the NCO Club at Clark AFB in the Phillipines = at close to 4 AM and watching Special Forces 'Advisors' embarking = outside in the dim glare for over there =20 We thought the enemy was communism because Joe told us so. It was only = years later that the stateside press had an inkling of the commitments = we had made. tom bell =20 =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:59:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: announcing the 1st of 2 'open letter' issues of Open Letter magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ANNOUNCING the first of two=20 "open letter" issues of _Open Letter_ magazine: the 'open letter' _Open Letter_ issue -- #1 (Eleventh Series, No. 3, Fall 2001) now available: $7 (Canada), $9 (international) _Open Letter_, 499 Dufferin Ave, London, Ontario, N6B 2A1, Canada This issue: I LETTERS 1a~Satire No. 3 RODRIGO TOSCANO 2a~"I write in a cold place" GEORGE ELLIOTT CLARKE 3a~Notes on "Cultural Poetics" ALAN GILBERT 4a~"sphere of generality" JENNIFER MOXLEY 5a~"gathering vs. collecting" KRISTIN PREVALLET 6a~"the frisk" PETER JAEGER 7a~"off by one" BILL LUOMA 8a~"the word 'you'" JOSHUA SCHUSTER 9a~"these Boston-specific moments" MICHAEL MAGEE 10a~"I stands there, ragged and singing" MAGDALENA ZURAWSKI 11a~"autoreferential" IAN L. SAMUELS & JC WILCKE 12a~Nomads & The Demon ADRIAN CLARKE 13a~Dear ________, TOM BECKETT 14a~Thinking Time GREGG BIGLIERI 15a~Not -- Not To HUNG Q. TU II RESPONSES 5b~"the terminology" JACKSON MAC LOW 6b,7b~"friendly, natural-feeling text" BRIAN KIM STEFANS 8b~"the third term" BENJAMIN HOLLANDER 10b~"the propaganda part" PAMELA LU 11b~"blockage" DARREN WERSHLER-HENRY 12b~"weary/wary of any ontology" PIERRE JORIS 15b~"ahead, apart" P. INMAN 16b~re: "Dear Hank" HANK LAZER 'THE CALL': December 1999 & July 2001 We invited/invite open letters to poets, from poets -- addressed across = generations, aesthetic tendencies, communities, political boundaries. = Letters received will be forwarded to the poets addressed; addressees = will have a chance to reply and be included in 'open letter' _Open = Letter_. We will consider publishing letters and responses, letters that = do not receive responses, and also poetry which brings out a particular = juncture of debate. We are interested in complicating given literary lineages, in = overturning abstract categorizations of poets' methods and = socio-aesthetic formations, in rediscovering and questioning received = critical formulae concerning a poet's work or milieu, and in bringing = about new close and historical readings and critiques. We want to = emphasize the dialogic, analytical, and constructivist possibilities of = address to and between poets by means of the open letter's form of = public intimacy. Our intent is to complicate how kinds of poetic 'positions' articulate = themselves, and are articulated and perceived as available and = 'occupied' in contemporary poetries -- as aesthetic tendency, method, = point of group identification, etc. A willful return to a dated technology, but a return that harkens to = founding motives of _Open Letter_: the open letter. These issues add to = the current forums and formats of poetic discussion available, including = the Buffalo poetics listserv (and _Poetics@_, its recent anthology), the = _PhillyTalks_ newsletter (poets in dialogue), the question/answer model = of _99 Poets_ (and its predecessors back to = _L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE_), the poet's talk (as collected in = _Writing/Talks_), and the poet's essay (from _Curriculum of the Soul_ to = _Poetics Journal_, _Tripwire_ or _Shark_). THE 'OPEN LETTER' OPEN LETTER ISSUES Project Openview: _Open Letter_'s Eleventh Series, numbers 3 and 4 will feature a = selection of letters we received since sending out a call for letters = to/from poets in December 1999. These two 'open letter' issues of Open Letter will be put online by late = Fall 2001 (TBA). They may be downloadable as free PDF files by = author-name using (free) Adobe software. A link for the 'open letter' = online site will be made at _Open Letter_: = http://www.arts.uwo.ca/openlet/home.htm. CALL FOR OPEN LETTERS / RESPONSES: For the first ten months that the 'open letter' issues will be available = online, we will be accepting new open letters, as well as new responses = to the existing letters, for prompt online publication. Contact us to receive online notification, or with queries about this = online, time-based project. Louis Cabri & Nicole Markotics, eds. lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu; markotic@ucalgary.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:19:08 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Poem 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Poem 11 =20 The head on the table like an accusation the descent. the cylinders of despair are split with light. =20 who understands. =20 these are distant = these fingers =20 and power=20 crawls: the boxes are ready =20 they lie impaled in their = thousands in the dawn =20 the profound books wait with=20 the white valley of their = pages for the sentences =20 the stranger walks the empty = streets. the city is = troubled =20 this speech. this = eternal - = rotating thing. =20 = =20 Richard Taylor ca. 1994 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:57:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: A Cultural History of the Penis In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" very cute. At 5:19 PM -0400 10/18/01, Joe Brennan wrote: >Subj: [evol-psych] A Mind of Its Own: A Cultural History of the Penis >Date: 10/18/2001 4:46:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time >From: ian.pitchford@scientist.com (Ian Pitchford) >Reply-to: >Ian.Pitchford@scientist.com (Ian Pitchford) >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com > >A Mind of Its Own: A Cultural History of the Penis >by David M. Friedman >Hardcover - 368 pages (October 30, 2001) >Free Press; ISBN: 0684853205 >AMAZON - US >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684853205/darwinanddarwini/ >AMAZON - UK >http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684853205/humannaturecom/ > >David M. Friedman's A Mind of Its Own is a cultural examination of the penis, >from ancient Sumer to the present. Friedman convincingly suggests that >humankind's various and contradictory attitudes toward the penis have been >instrumental in mapping the course of both Western civilization and world >history. > >Friedman begins with pagan attitudes: ancient Greeks considered the penis a >measure of a man's proximity to "divine power," while the Romans, whose >generals were known to promote soldiers based on penis size, saw it as an >indicator of earthly strength. Thanks to the spread of Christianity, the >"sacred staff became the demon rod"--a fearful manifestation of the devil. >Theology gave way, grudgingly, to science. In the Renaissance, anatomical >discoveries allowed for the possibility that this "agent of death" was, in >fact, only a "blameless instrument of reproduction." Subsequent chapters >discuss the penis's role as a racial yardstick; its "defining role in human >personality" as asserted by Freud; its politicization; and finally, through >the >likes of Viagra, its objectification as a "thing ... impervious to religious >teachings, psychological insights, racial stereotypes and feminist criticism." > >Friedman's study of what he calls the "symbolic muscle" is filled with >fascinating side trips (castration cults, ancient graffiti, the >anti-masturbation "semen-retention movement," aphrodisiacs through the ages, >and, to modern eyes, risible medical practices with the likes of monkey >glands), as well as a rich cast of characters (Leonardo da Vinci, John Kellogg >of cornflake fame, Kate Millet, Clarence Thomas, and Walt Whitman). The book >is >informal, but well researched (and documented), entertaining but not cute, >wide-ranging but not sketchy, and simultaneously irreverent and >respectful. --H. O'Billovich > >>From Publishers Weekly starred review >"Over time, the penis has been deified, demonized, secularized, racialized, >psychoanalyzed, politicized and, finally, medicalized," declares freelance >journalist Friedman in a serious yet entertaining book that weaves together an >enormous amount of material. In the Greek and Roman worlds, statues of figures >with erections were commonplace, he observes, though by the Christian era, the >penis had become a source of evil and weakness. Doctors and scientists from da >Vinci onward "deflat[ed] the religious rhetoric" and scrutinized the male >organ >sometimes with untoward results, as when American "semen science" led to the >creation of antimasturbation products such as Graham crackers. Western man's >fear of the African phallus undergirded colonialism and slavery, and resonates >to this day, Friedman argues, as was evident in the case of Clarence Thomas. >If >some of Freud's case histories might be questioned, Friedman notes how the >psychoanalytic interpretation enduringly places the penis and associated >anxieties at the fulcrum of society. The rise of feminism put the penis in its >place, as The Hite Report pointed out the limits of conventional intercourse >in >moving women to orgasm, and as Andrea Dworkin exposed penile pathology though >the author concludes that male sexuality arises more out of evolutionary >strategy than misogyny. His final and liveliest chapter concerns the >medicalization of the penis, culminating in Viagra. Even though Friedman >quotes >a (female) sex therapist on the limits of such drugs, he concludes >optimistically that "the erection industry" has performed a paradigm shift, >allowing man to impose his will below his belt. The book has a few gaps -- >there's little about the gay penis -- but it should reign as the seminal >treatment of this topic (and inspire many more puns). > >Copyright 2001 Cahners Business Information, Inc. > >>From Library Journal > >An impressively research-prone journalist who has written for Esquire, Rolling >Stone, and the Village Voice, Friedman has prepared a catalog of happenings >and >horrors perpetrated on the penis or in the name of the penis as an organ and >as >an idea. His opening chapter about religious teachings begins with a ghastly >story about the torture of a witch who "knew the Devil's penis." Next come >Tissot and the medical antimasturbation mania, plus biological discoveries >about the organ. This is followed by an even more terrible and detailed >discussion of racist stereotypes and violence relating to supposedly >macrophallic Africans. Chapter 4 belongs to Dr. Freud, Chapter 5 to feminist >criticism, and Chapter 6 to Viagra and the erection industry since ancient >Egypt. Referenced in considerable (if not perfect) detail, the work could be >improved only by textual subheads and (perhaps) illustrations. A fascinating >and sobering complement to more lighthearted books, including Maggie Paley's >The Book of the Penis (Grove, 2001), Joseph Cohen's The Penis Book (Konemann, >2001), and Kit Schwartz's The Male Member (St. Martin's, 1985). Recommended >for >collections in history, popular culture, and sexology. Martha Cornog, >Philadelphia > >Copyright 2001 Cahners Business Information, Inc. > >Book Description > >Whether enemy or ally, demon or god, the source of satisfaction or the root of >all earthly troubles, the penis has forced humanity to wrestle with its >enduring mysteries. Here, in an enlightening and entertaining cultural study, >is a book that gives context to the central role of the penis in Western >civilization. > >A man can hold his manhood in his hand, but who is really gripping whom? Is >the >penis the best in man -- or the beast? How is man supposed to use it? And when >does that use become abuse? Of all the bodily organs, only the penis forces >man >to confront such contradictions: something insistent yet reluctant, a tool >that >creates but also destroys, a part of the body that often seems apart from the >body. This is the conundrum that makes the penis both hero and villain in a >drama that shapes every man -- and mankind along with it. > >In A Mind of Its Own, David M. Friedman shows that the penis is more than a >body part. It is an idea, a conceptual but flesh-and-blood measuring stick of >man's place in the world. That men have a penis is a scientific fact; how they >think about it, feel about it, and use it is not. It is possible to identify >the key moments in Western history when a new idea of the penis addressed the >larger mystery of man's relationship with it and changed forever the way that >organ was conceived of and put to use. A Mind of Its Own brilliantly distills >this complex and largely unexamined story. > >Deified by the pagan cultures of the ancient world and demonized by the early >Roman church, the organ was later secularized by pioneering anatomists such as >Leonardo da Vinci. After being measured "scientifically" in an effort to >subjugate some races while elevating others, the organ was psychoanalyzed by >Sigmund Freud. As a result, the penis assumed a paradigmatic role in >psychology -- whether the patient was equipped with the organ or envied those >who were. Now, after being politicized by feminism and exploited in countless >ways by pop culture, the penis has been medicalized. As no one has before him, >Friedman shows how the arrival of erection industry products such as Viagra is >more than a health or business story. It is the latest -- and perhaps final -- >chapter in one of the longest sagas in human history: the story of man's >relationship with his penis. > >A Mind of Its Own charts the vicissitudes of that relationship through its >often amusing, occasionally alarming, and never boring course. With >intellectual rigor and a healthy dose of wry humor, David M. Friedman serves >up >one of the most thought-provoking, significant, and readable cultural works in >years. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:42:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lee ann brown Subject: Tender Buttons Book Party (NYC) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable +++ Please Come celebrate the publication of CUNT-UPS by Dodie Bellamy (Tender Buttons, 2001) Book Party Tuesday October 23rd 7pm-midnight cocktails & 8:30 performance (at bed: Lee Ann Brown, Julianne Swartz & Paola Ruby Weintraub's house) 57 Hope Street 2nd floor Dodie Bellamy continues and extends Tender Buttons=B9 legacy of publishing radical, cutting edge writing by women. She writes, "Cunt-Ups is a hermaphroditic salute to William Burroughs and Kathy Acker . . . Is the cut-up a male form? I=B9ve always considered it so =8B needing the violence of a pair of scissors in order to reach nonlinearity. Oddly, even though I=B9ve spent up to four hours on each cunt-up, afterwards I cannot recognize them =8B just like in sex, intense focus and then sensual amnesia." DIRECTIONS from Lorimer / Metropolitan Ave (L / G ) stop: (If you're coming from Manhattan on L get in the last car) Exit by main token booth near Kellogg's Diner walk west (left) on Metropolitan Avenue UNDER the BQE 2 blocks then LEFT on Marcy by playground look up - you will see a big white building with a huge billboard on top "YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOUR EYE!" (that's my building) to get in turn RIGHT on Hope Street we're mid-block northside in big white warehouse up the stairs no bell- door will be propped or call up: 718.782.8443 Driving directions from Manhattan: From Delancy Street take the Williamburg Bridge, get in far right lane take SECOND EXIT to the right off the bridge to left of the bus plaza (Broadway/ S.5th exit) take an immediate LEFT onto Havemeyer Drive 6 blocks to Hope Street - get out and walk right 1/2 block We're on Hope Street BETWEEN Havemeyer & Marcy ONE BLOCK SOUTH OF METROPOLITAN AVENUE (ONE BLOCK SOUTH of BLACK BETTY"S on Metropolitan and Havemeyer) Lee Ann Brown Tender Buttons PO Box 13, Cooper Station NYC 10276 (718) 782-8443 home - (646) 734-4157 cell "Harmless amulets arm little limbs with poise and charm." =8B Harryette Mullen, Trimmings (Tender Buttons Books) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:35:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: Wendy Kramer/ Sue Landers/ Nov. 6 Comments: To: kurlygurly@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" ************************BROOKLYN POETRY EVENT***************** Nada requests the pleasure of your company at Flying Saucer Cafe 494 Atlantic Avenue Brooklyn on the evening of Tuesday November 6 at 8 pm WENDY KRAMER makes collage poems, to see, hear, and touch, all at once. Her current projects include newsprint poems, a series or collection of songs without words, and a dance collage for two people together. Her work can be found in various zines on the web and in print. She lives in Brooklyn. SUE LANDERS is an editor of PomPom, and is working on manuscript entitled X mgs., a panic picnic. Her poems have appeared in readme, theeastvillage.com, Ixnay, Washington Review, and Tool. ======================================== HOW TO GET THERE: Take the 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or D or Q to the Atlantic Subway stop and walk underground to the Pacific Street exit (at the N or R or M Pacific Street Stop) or take the B or N or R or M - in any case, go out the Pacific Street Exit (right exit), take a right - at the end of the block you will be on Atlantic Ave. Take a left on Atlantic, and about two and a half blocks down, between Third and Nevins, you will find the Flying Saucer Cafe. $3 donation. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kimball Organization: http://www.fauxpress.com/kimball Subject: Durand, Myles, Towle, Sullivan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please come to a BOOK PARTY for Western Capital Rhapsodies by Marcella Durand on my way by Eileen Myles Memoir 1960-1963 by Tony Towle How to Proceed in the Arts by Gary Sullivan all published by Faux Press this Friday, Oct. 26 6-8 pm Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Sq. West, 7th Fl. NYC Refreshments & Readings & Books for more info about how to order and special subscription rates: http://www.fauxpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:23:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: BlazeVOX2k1 -- The one voice is calling Comments: To: wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Blaze http://vorplesword.com http://vorplesword.com http://vorplesword.com The one voice is calling Now everyone can get information, connections send and receive e-mail, purchase products and control devices using your voice - all the time, everywhere. One Voice acting amazing technology mobile phones, computers, in-car systems even your beloved TV set lets everyone get more done - faster Voice Technologies are leading the Revolution(tm), more easily than ever before with cutting edge solutions make technology Simple. Welcome to BlazeVOX2k1 an.online.journal.of.voice http://vorplesword.com http://vorplesword.com http://vorplesword.com Featuring New Media by Deena Larson,Ian Dixie Fleur, Shaquanica Xone, Ezra Pound Poetry by Amy King, Ward Kelley, Julie Buxton, Shane Jones Ebooks free) F. Scott Fitzgerald, William James Austin CD-ROM Burn On Demand Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:34:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: involvement/action In-Reply-To: <124.619bd12.290189c2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to offer support for Karen's efforts in assembling Buffalo poets to help support and comfort all involved. It seems that the performance is a very different animal than the act of reading. To perform a poem one brings certain qualities to the poem similar to that of an actor taking on a part. Where reading is the realm of the reader. In a group activity, such as the Red Cross reading Karen brought together, sentimentality has a rightful place. It was at Rust belt books where the avant garde mixed well with house wife poems - but all were pure -- in Pound's notion of "only emotion endures". Even the old beatniks still kicking around in dirty hair and faded blue jeans brought a level of feeling beyond their usual sullen attitudes. The audience understood in ways differently than if it was only a reading of one style of poem. Politics are of people and when people gather, being moved by poetry, politics becomes poetry. Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Karen Lewis Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:51 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: involvement/action H, Thanks for your question. Last night at a reading here in Buffalo a local poet , Judy Einach, announced to the assembled her candidacy as a write in for Mayor of Buffalo. Her e-mail is jeinach@yahoo.com if you'd like to talk to her about your wry but sometimes serious interest. She has a Masters Degree from Harvard and considers herself practiced in community problem solving. As far as preaching to the converted, I believe that poetry does provide an important level of support. It helps to keep those same converted refreshed and syched. If, in gathering together as poets or as an audience these same people feel buoyed to continue their efforts at effecting timely political change then poetry has had a positive effect. I believe it is possible that a point of poetic view can impact a reader and create change in thought. Karen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:39:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: poem / nonsense In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Millie, I think you achieved nonsense quite well. --JG --------------------------- Millie Niss wrote: I wanted to make a poem which makes no sense at all, even to the extent of violating the rules of syntax & grammar (it is easy to make nonsense poems where you write "normal" sentyences with funny nouns where the nouns belong, funny verbs where the verbs belong, etc., but I wanted to bend langugae maore than that...) As I reread, I realize that I was mostly unsuccessful in wroting true nonsense in the sense. Can anyone give examples of poems that break away from grammar (a lot of LANGUAGE poetry does this. I'm thinking of Jackson Mac Low's twenties series which used nouns and verbs with no apparent sentence structure. Chitchat at the Chancellor=92s Tea seventeen tarantulas however? Bicentennial bash borders heretofore squeamishly, Wouldn=92t you? hereditary green part-time arachnophobia visits Sweden chortling slowly yesterday =93I can kangaroo, too=94 slowly quoth he charmingly, =93in arpeggios.=94 logging circumscribed chartreuse philosophically in absentia summarily squats have another ghost minces Marcella although clam etiquette bursts, I intuit instead potatoes, purchase impressarios on the dole, of course convincingly underhanded among byzantine grapes blue leave-taking with supposedly cement Wunderbar! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 15:35:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Fw: IDENTITY AND GLOBALIZATION (e)MAIL ART CALL Comments: To: webartery@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable might be interesting to participate in this project as lights flaicker = and shift on the globe? tom bell ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hans Braum=FCller=20 To: Luc.Fierens@manutan.com ; sperkins@red.weeg.uiowa.edu=20 Cc: selby@slip.net ; shozos@shozo-shimamoto.com ; tam@dds.nl ; = show@mmedia.is ; petasz@softel.elblag.pl ; pmtav@sirius.com ; = olorin@eunet.yu ; markb@echonyc.com ; ken.friedman@bi.no ; = jlehmus@cute.fi ; jbennett@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ; = stkrdude@interport.net ; jaheriot@teleport.com ; jfelter@direct.ca ; = Irving.Weiss@Washcoll.edu ; helen_Karas@mailcity.com ; maminfo@csi.com ; = gferdinande@nordnet.fr ; ghb@sherman.boulder.lib.co.us ; kfj@kki.kk.dk ; = phi@innet.lu ; ericvos@euronet.nl ; dbchirot@csd.uwm.edu ; = snipdd@worldnet.fr ; cemucf@stat.fmv.ulg.ac.be ; o-okwemm@jmk.su.se ; = a_banana@sunshine.net ; altemus@maine.com ; Luc.Fierens@manutan.com ; = Guy Ferdinande ; Gabriel Villota ; Galer=EDa Ze dos Bois ; = ghb@sherman.boulder.lib.co.us ; Gerardo Padilla ; Gerardo Yepiz ; = Gerhard Haupt ; G=E9rard Gauthier ; Gianni Broi ; Gilberto Prado ; = Giovanni Tessicini ; Goeorges Henri BEAUTHIER ; Group Public Projects ; = Gue Schmidt ; Guillaume ; Guy Bleus ; Guy Stuckens ; Hagop Gamk ; Hale = Tenger ; Hamit Bozarslan ; Hans Paulussen ; Hans-Ruedi Fricker ; Harriet = Lutzky ; Harry Polkinhorn ; Helen Karasivodu ; Hermes ; Herv=E9 Lefort ; = Honoria ; Horacio Espinosa ; Horacio Notti ; Hosmand ; Hugo Fernandez ; = Hugo Pontes ; Hugo Sil ; Humberto Nilo ; IBIRICO-A.M.A.E. ; Igor = Stevanovic ; Igor Ulanovsky ; Illumination Gallery ; Ina Blom ; = industrias mikuerpo ; Isabel Ron-Pedrique ; Isabelle et Gilles ; Ivana = Martinez Vollaro ; artraul@compuserve.com ; lorecova@hotmail.com ; = florencia42@hotmail.com ; "Anna Banana" ; = Artoposto ; Michael Lumb ; Simone Rondelet ; Rod Summers ; Susan Gold = Smith ; Bruno Chiarlone ; Ed Varney ; Guido Vermeulen ; Daniel Daligand = ; Toon Joosen ; Tine Eelman ; Patricia Tavenner ; Mates Dorfles ; Miguel = A Jimenez ; Keiichi Nakamura ; Jana Egerova ; Vittore Baroni ; Artpool ; = Mark Bloch ; Dale Copeland ; Sean Woodward ; Tim Drage ; Joel S. Cohen ; = Guy Bleus ; Charles Francois ; artgonepostal@compuserve.com ; Craig = Purcell ; Dragonfly ; Albatroz ; Aaron ; Lia Garavini ; Linda Pelati ; = Mailart Family ; Merlin ; Shozo Shimamoto ; Recycled art ; Pete Spence ; = Maaike de Laat ; Harry Burrus ; Paul Silvia ; MLumbE@aol.com ; = Chocozzz2@aol.com ; reidwood@oberlin.net ; = Patricia.Collins@E1studio.demon.co.uk ; Irving.Weiss@Washcoll.edu ; = h.r.fricker@bluewin.ch ; dencker@kulturbehoerde.hamburg.de ; = dmitry_babenko@mail.ru ; gonuca44@hotmail.com ; merlin@crosses.net ; = Ariadna.Capasso@Colorado.EDU ; altemus@gray.maine.com ; = cermasi@libero.it ; o-okwemm@jmk.su.se ; artgroups@rcnet.net ; = minorosso@comune.torino.it ; ColeD@Mail.Montclair.edu ; = Chocozzz2@aol.com ; Geert.De.Decker@village.uunet.be ; kamper@bits.net ; = mizwingz@dragonflydream.com ; evarney@mars.ark.com ; = corroto@earthlink.net ; GCook69833@aol.com ; stradadamusic@iol.it ; = gb@pophost.eunet.be ; harryburrus@juno.com ; oil@lacaja.net ; = jackkid@newfolk.mv.com ; jfelter@direct.ca ; jandrews@speakeasy.org ; = jargonradio@ndirect.co.uk ; JDABRIGEON@aol.com ; ken.friedman@bi.no ; = KENbmiller@aol.com ; kGROH@bigfoot.com ; = dencker@kulturbehoerde.hamburg.de ; Mand@mail.telepac.pt ; = wms@interlog.com ; SimPub@hotmail.com ; dtv@mwt.net ; = mjk@acsu.buffalo.edu ; mastudio@sombor.net ; nuara@arrakis.es ; = Patricia.Collins@E1studio.demon.co.uk ; grupo_metafora@hotmail.com ; = pedjapop@yahoo.com ; spenvis@hotmail.com ; jcsynthetics@hotmail.com ; = akenaton_docks@sitec.fr ; hksteen@desk.nl ; altemus@maine.com ; = reidwood@oberlin.net ; rodvec@hvision.nl ; pereirat@bluffton.edu ; = 'Thomas Bell' ; Tulio Restrepo ; Gue Schmidt ; Felipe Ehrenberg=20 Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 3:26 PM Subject: IDENTITY AND GLOBALIZATION (e)MAIL ART CALL Dear networkers and mail artists, enclosed a mail art project i am engaged with AUMA-GOM@, Thanks for your time, Peace, Hans Braum=FCller Your cross in the network: http://www.crosses.net ------------------------------------------------------------- =20 AUMA-GOM@ (Mail Art Urgent Action - Global Organization of Mail Artists) = invites you to participate in its Mailart Project Identity and Globalization Presented at the Digital Hall of the VII Biennial of Arts in Cuenca, = Ecuador. Information and convocation in: = http://identidad-globalizacion.crosses.net (E)MAIL ART CALL=20 Subject: IDENTITY AND GLOBALIZATION ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION Deadline : 15. January 2002=20 Download, alter and upload again the image of the world map on=20 http://identidad-globalizacion.crosses.net REGULAR MAIL PARTICIPATION: Deadline : 31. December 2001=20 Print the image on = http://identidad-globalizacion.crosses.net/download.php?lang=3Denglish=20 in order to participate by regular mail.=20 Once it has been intervened by you, send it to one of following = adresses:=20 Humberto Nilo, Calama 8435, La Cisterna - Santiago, Chile Montse Forn=F3s-Matriz Grupal, Bail=E9n, 199, 08037-Barcelona, Espa=F1a=20 Elias Adasme, 1009 Georgetown, University Gardens, San Juan, Puerto Rico = 00927-4822=20 Documentation and all contributions in Mail Art Board: = http://identidad-globalizacion.crosses.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 13:15:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: sad poem of propriety and sentiment In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan, I love this poem. Thanks for sending it. Plus, the CD work is great. Your video's are great. The transitions of the spider to selves and back again only inverted is great. Plus, the black and white with the words haunting the scene is very effective. So anti commercial (where we are used to having big words in such settings) defying to be read but its presence gives a truer meaning, a feeling of text, the presence like a ghost in and out. Great work and thanks for sending them. I am feeling better, it seems that the flu took all of my bad feeling out with it. Way to go white blood cells! Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 1:34 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: sad poem of propriety and sentiment - sad poem of propriety and sentiment the last lonely man breathes the last free air. he meets the last lonely woman and she is singing. she is singing about clean and pure air. she says the air is always clean, the air is always pure. we are creatures in this lonely world. we never obeyed, we always breathed. in and out, in and out, and we're still here, and we're still here the last lonely man breathes the first free air. he has awakened from his slumber and he knows that the last lonely woman is singing the truth, oh why did no one listen? oh why did no one listen? there's a voiceover with a beautiful voice. the voiceover says everyone was scared to get sick and die. everyone was scared to breathe. so everyone held their official breath in their official space, and everyone died of fear and suffocation, and everyone died of fear and suffocation the last lonely woman said nothing's true, you're making it up again, just like before. in truth, billions of us are living, we're not lonely at all, we have good times, i come back from shopping and this is what happens. get me out of this poem, you don't even capitalize, what's wrong with you? aghast, I = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:54:54 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Queen Sacrifices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David. If your vision, so to speak, is true, whatever that is, then this war will never end! Because as you excise one "lot" of terrorists, another take there place! There are endless circles and levels of terrorists - and while it sems, if we can believe the crap coming from the US-Military mullahs - that the extreme Muslims are very dangerous, even insane...wel, the same was said of Suddam Hussein: he is actually one of the few to have said anything rational about the situation by the way...how is this war suddenly different o someradical way than the Vietnam: I see it as a continuation (in some respects) of Christianity versus Moslemism: NOT democracy or progress versus "evil". Moslem has conveniently replacede Communist or Communism (which the US have dropped as it might upset China one of their "allies")...no right wing is VERY relevant: right wingers are usually cowards. It would take more than a coupole of buildings liquefied to unnerve me...look, I spoke to at least two Englishmaen over here the day after S11 and they were quite calm about it...both used to bombs going off in London: both seeing that the billions spent by the US on so called "defence" were useless and always will be. What about countries where such bombings occur daily? The reality is that the US and other nations, rather than this pathetic and pretty gutless attack on one of the weakest and poorest nations in the world, needs to look to its own backyard where there are millions of homeles, and many many who have low incomes, poverty, suicide, and many of those working class people are Muslims or from the East and are maybe right now thinking (in between Chess games)..."now this is going to be even more exciting than a Chess game when I'm in time trouble and have just about pulled of smothered mate...aha, I must start dreamiong up ways to "beat the system"!!...after allif Timothy McVeigh could bring down a big building with som fertiliser an US Army training, then what can I do?" If you want terrorism: the reason they stoped a rugby match over here in Hamilton 1981 was because there was a plane heading for the football stadium, with the possiblility that the pilot (who'd been in South Africa as a "flying doctor" and was an expert pilot) "might" plough into the stadium: the protestors meanwhile went onto the field (protest against Apartheid) and then when the game was stopped they were attacked a re attacked: the cry of the local "rednecks" was "Jews!" "Blacks!" "Communists" (nowadays they might add "Muslims!")...so that in little old New Zealand....(and some were beaten half to death)... OK I can see that you want to stop a certain kind of extremism: but you yourself have said it...its not possible to localise it. Its not IN Afgahnistan: its everywhere. And these guys arent scared: many are motivated because they believe (possibly wrongly) that the ends justify the means: that's what you have to dispprove. The end maybe that capitalism is transformed toward socialism, that revenge for atrocities (real or imagined it doesnt matter) done or initiated by the US or "The West", or they are just religious nut cases who believe Allah has told them that the US is corrupt...but a war isnt going to convince those guys, there everywhere!! For every situation there's a psychopath being born right now somewhere in the world. Believe me: have faith... But as to Chess: Chess is a finite game and in fact many many games (often very exciting ones) end in a draw...I know because I've been playing the game for years. There are times when the Queen (A few New Yorks? The actual English Queen?) are sacrificed to obtain a win: A Better World? Or What? Chaos? Some people believe in chaos... Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david antin" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 7:49 PM > Dear George and Richard > > I was amused to find some reflections on our current political > situation I recently posted characterized as "right wing." I'm not > sure that "right wing" and "left wing" are terribly meaningful terms > any more, but I thought I would clarify my position for anyone > interested. My considerations were purely practical. And I would > hate to surrender practicality to "the right wing". > If the plane you're flying in happens to be hi-jacked, it's probably > more useful to kill the hi-jackers than to speculate on the nature of > their grievances. In the case of our World Tower hijackers, they > saved us the trouble and killed themselves. But these hijackers were > just pawns in the game and this was simply a pawn sacrifice. (The > chess metaphor may be specially appropriate, since the Arabs > introduced the game into Europe.) To extend the metaphor, to play to > a win or at least to a draw we have to go after the bishops,the rooks > and the queen, and finally the king. In chess you're not offered a > choice between peace and war. Either you defeat your enemy or your > enemy defeats you. This seems to be our current situation. There is > no way of making peace with the terrorist organizations. Nothing that > the U.S. can do as a country or that its citizens can do as > individuals can create peace with them. We're not at war with a > nation or a religion. We're dealing with a fanatical twisted segment > of the Islamic world-- sort of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and > Oliver North in Arab drag. This is why changes in US diplomacy are > not relevant here. Sure it would be good to try to modify American > foreign policy in dozens of places, but no beneficial change in > American policy would affect our present enemies. Their recruits > would never learn of them or they would hear of them only through the > screen of propaganda created by their mullahs. But because this is > not a traditional war fought against a nation, it's also not obvious > that there is any reason for the prolonged bombing of Afghanistan. > Nothing the Bush people say is very credible, and it's hard to > believe that there are enough significant military targets in > Afghanistan to justify it. There are probably only two plausible > reasons for the bombing -- as domestic public relations for Bush, > because it offers visible evidence of America striking back, and as a > credible warning to Iraq, Libya, Syria etc, to keep out of it. If > there is real action against bin Laden or the Taliban, it will be > covert, while the bombers are probably killing more shepherds and > goats than bin Laden supporters or Taliban soldiers. I can imagine > reasonable people opposing the extended bombing. But I don't see any > reason why a so-called "leftist' would object to a serious ground > campaign aimed at overthrowing the Taliban, though I don't believe > Bush will undertake it. As for Buddhism in this time, the only kind > of Buddhism that might be politically valuable now is probably Zen, > which you may remember was the religion of the Samurai. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 00:31:17 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No writing makes no sense at all: if it is written by a "Langpo) then by his/her very act of composing in a particular way, meaning is generated. I see it as writing moving between very strict and grammatically and syntactically "correct" posems to poems more or less dislocated.... a parallel would be with the concept of entropy: in telecommunication theory the gretest amount of information is conveyed in direct proportion as there is greater entropy (disorder)...but obviously something that is absolutely so orderd (low entropy) that we can virtually predict what it says before its said is hence "meaningless", so of course is white noise (a theoretically completely random system).... An example is a Steve McCaffery poem which is "exploded" all over the page. But in the context of what McCaffery is doing or "saying" even that is meaning ful (if not "grammatical" and certainly useless for communicating outside of the medium he is was using)....But that's my penny worth: Charles Bernstein and guys like that have a greater knowledge of these things...I think what you maybe striving for is similar to the concept of Mallarme who wanted poetry to approximate to the condition of music...I think Laura Riding had some ideas on this as well. An interesting "example" is in Ashbery's "House Boat Days" (The Nut Brown Maid which was written by his using fragments from older poems)...but he maintains the "grammatical flow so to speak"....A fascinating poem is "Polaroid" by Clark Coolidge in which he uses..read it - I cant explain it - its fascinating: also a strange and fascinating book is "After Images " by Joan Retallack. I like it: but for me its the kind of challenging thing which I admire but cant understand! (Like Finnegan's Wake which I admire but have never read!).That may not matter: the thing is that one is comforted so to speak that Retallack knew why and what she was writing which I cant always claim...! But there are many others, as I have no doubt others on this List will have a greater awareness than I. MacLow is an intriguing guy who was a good friend of John Cage of course...Oh, and another writer a bit in your ilk is Tom Raworth........Trakl the German poet or something quite different is interesting: ask Scott Hamilton; he's read every thing (!) Your poem is fascinating. Send more. I like it: has an element of humour and also torques the language so that it "talks" as should all good and intriguing poetry. Regards, Richard. PS it reminded me of an interview over here with a big strong young All Black (rugby player) who was (almost coquettishly) "not big on spiders"! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Millie Niss" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 5:06 PM Subject: poem > I wanted to make a poem which makes no sense at all, even to the extent of > violating the rules of syntax & grammar (it is easy to make nonsense poems > where you write "normal" sentyences with funny nouns where the nouns belong, > funny verbs where the verbs belong, etc., but I wanted to bend langugae > maore than that...) As I reread, I realize that I was mostly unsuccessful > in wroting true nonsense in the sense. Can anyone give examples of poems > that break away from grammar (a lot of LANGUAGE poetry does this. I'm > thinking of Jackson Mac Low's twenties series which used nouns and verbs > with no apparent sentence structure. > > > Chitchat at the Chancellor's Tea > > seventeen tarantulas > however? > > Bicentennial bash > borders > heretofore > squeamishly, > Wouldn't you? > > hereditary green > part-time arachnophobia > visits Sweden > chortling slowly > yesterday > > "I can kangaroo, too" > slowly quoth he > charmingly, > "in arpeggios." > > logging circumscribed > chartreuse philosophically > in absentia > summarily squats > > have another ghost > minces Marcella > although clam etiquette bursts, > > I intuit instead potatoes, > purchase impressarios on the dole, > of course convincingly > underhanded among > byzantine grapes > > blue leave-taking > with supposedly > cement > > Wunderbar! > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:52:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = $ echo "the song of Wen-chi among the nomads" the song of Wen-chi $ "she wandered far from her homeland"; echo "homeland" /usr/local/bin/ksh: she wandered far from her homeland: not found homeland $ echo "until she came to a dark valley"; "until she came to a dark valley" until she came to a dark valley /usr/local/bin/ksh: until she came to a dark valley: not found $ the valley was filled with rocks and prompts /usr/local/bin/ksh: the: not found $ echo "there was writing in the rocks and writing in the prompts" there was writing in the rocks and writing in the prompts $ "she wandered desolate"; echo "she couldn't read" /usr/local/bin/ksh: she wandered desolate: not found she couldn't read $ "no one could understand her"; echo "no one could understand her" /usr/local/bin/ksh: no one could understand her: not found no one could understand her $ she was far away from home; echo "home" /usr/local/bin/ksh: she: not found home $ someone would come and move the prompt and help her; echo "S" /usr/local/bin/ksh: someone: not found S $ someone would write and someone would read /usr/local/bin/ksh: someone: not found $ someone would speak and someone would listen /usr/local/bin/ksh: someone: not found $ "this is her sound by the prompt"; echo "this is her sound by the prompt" /usr/local/bin/ksh: this is her sound by the prompt: not found this is her sound by the prompt $ $ has found this lonely woman /usr/local/bin/ksh: $: not found $ echo "$ has found this lonely woman"; echo "from the prompt"; echo "always from the prompt" $ has found this lonely woman from the prompt always from the prompt $ $ echo "the song of Wen-chi among the nomads"; the song of Wen-chi the song of Wen-chi /usr/local/bin/ksh: the: not found $ $ exit = Wen-chi song is already old news, nomads pass by, decathect texts, that was yesterday, was this morning, that was this afternoon, that was last week this death of mine slows to a crawl, almost stops, did I write that, did I read this, did I remember to send that, did I remember to receive this to remember to receive, not to be there, not ready, but to receive upon or within the memory, always the future anterior, always as if about to be corroded untraceable it's decathected, disinvested, the knots are loosened, strings unravelled, silkworms gather up cocoons, roll back to chrysalis, ready to receive to receive the old news brought by the nomads antennas receiving the news of my not so recent death = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:03:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: WIlbur Jenkins Subject: Re: poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/20/2001 7:29:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, men2@COLUMBIA.EDU writes: > I intuit instead potatoes, > purchase impressarios on the dole, > of course convincingly > underhanded among > balderdash balderdash got my stash of balderdash when it hollers call it splash inky slinky winky oh ! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 01:37:25 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David. I realised here that I equated "Right Wing" with cowards and I didnt mean to imply you or any one I was talking about the concept of there being a Right Wing (if is IS useful)...and I was being a bit rhetorical when I said "it would take more than a few towers blown up etc"...of course I can see the US's point re this: its what worries me. I'm not in favour of religious nut cases of any persuasion so if your argument was stronger for me I'd be all for a military response but dont see that situation there yet. But I didnt mean to offend anyone....I can be as big a "coward", all things being equal as they say, as the next guy. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david antin" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 7:49 PM > Dear George and Richard > > I was amused to find some reflections on our current political > situation I recently posted characterized as "right wing." I'm not > sure that "right wing" and "left wing" are terribly meaningful terms > any more, but I thought I would clarify my position for anyone > interested. My considerations were purely practical. And I would > hate to surrender practicality to "the right wing". > If the plane you're flying in happens to be hi-jacked, it's probably > more useful to kill the hi-jackers than to speculate on the nature of > their grievances. In the case of our World Tower hijackers, they > saved us the trouble and killed themselves. But these hijackers were > just pawns in the game and this was simply a pawn sacrifice. (The > chess metaphor may be specially appropriate, since the Arabs > introduced the game into Europe.) To extend the metaphor, to play to > a win or at least to a draw we have to go after the bishops,the rooks > and the queen, and finally the king. In chess you're not offered a > choice between peace and war. Either you defeat your enemy or your > enemy defeats you. This seems to be our current situation. There is > no way of making peace with the terrorist organizations. Nothing that > the U.S. can do as a country or that its citizens can do as > individuals can create peace with them. We're not at war with a > nation or a religion. We're dealing with a fanatical twisted segment > of the Islamic world-- sort of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and > Oliver North in Arab drag. This is why changes in US diplomacy are > not relevant here. Sure it would be good to try to modify American > foreign policy in dozens of places, but no beneficial change in > American policy would affect our present enemies. Their recruits > would never learn of them or they would hear of them only through the > screen of propaganda created by their mullahs. But because this is > not a traditional war fought against a nation, it's also not obvious > that there is any reason for the prolonged bombing of Afghanistan. > Nothing the Bush people say is very credible, and it's hard to > believe that there are enough significant military targets in > Afghanistan to justify it. There are probably only two plausible > reasons for the bombing -- as domestic public relations for Bush, > because it offers visible evidence of America striking back, and as a > credible warning to Iraq, Libya, Syria etc, to keep out of it. If > there is real action against bin Laden or the Taliban, it will be > covert, while the bombers are probably killing more shepherds and > goats than bin Laden supporters or Taliban soldiers. I can imagine > reasonable people opposing the extended bombing. But I don't see any > reason why a so-called "leftist' would object to a serious ground > campaign aimed at overthrowing the Taliban, though I don't believe > Bush will undertake it. As for Buddhism in this time, the only kind > of Buddhism that might be politically valuable now is probably Zen, > which you may remember was the religion of the Samurai. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:12:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Comments: cc: kgergen1@swarthmore.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit david, I agree with your comment about left and right wing at present. They are no more meaningful here than liberal and conservative were during the Vietnam years. The problem then as I recall the experience was that 'radicalization' as alternative too easily lent itself to violence. Binary thinking does seem to be the problem here, particularly as it grows out of rational, cartesian modernism. While postmodernism and langpo have made heaadway in made big inroads in underlingthe problems in 'the old world - at least Western - order' they do not provide viable new paths. There is an article in the latest _American Psychologist however by Ken Gergen that might be of interest here - "In effect, all that has heretofore been defined as private and separated from the other is instead conceptualized as inherently relational - inseparable from communal activity" (quote from his _An invitation to social construction, 1999). Even though he does have a social construction bias this is consonant with my reading of much of your work. tom bell . ----- Original Message ----- From: "david antin" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 1:49 AM > Dear George and Richard > > I was amused to find some reflections on our current political > situation I recently posted characterized as "right wing." I'm not > sure that "right wing" and "left wing" are terribly meaningful terms > any more, but I thought I would clarify my position for anyone > interested. My considerations were purely practical. And I would > hate to surrender practicality to "the right wing". > If the plane you're flying in happens to be hi-jacked, it's probably > more useful to kill the hi-jackers than to speculate on the nature of > their grievances. In the case of our World Tower hijackers, they > saved us the trouble and killed themselves. But these hijackers were > just pawns in the game and this was simply a pawn sacrifice. (The > chess metaphor may be specially appropriate, since the Arabs > introduced the game into Europe.) To extend the metaphor, to play to > a win or at least to a draw we have to go after the bishops,the rooks > and the queen, and finally the king. In chess you're not offered a > choice between peace and war. Either you defeat your enemy or your > enemy defeats you. This seems to be our current situation. There is > no way of making peace with the terrorist organizations. Nothing that > the U.S. can do as a country or that its citizens can do as > individuals can create peace with them. We're not at war with a > nation or a religion. We're dealing with a fanatical twisted segment > of the Islamic world-- sort of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and > Oliver North in Arab drag. This is why changes in US diplomacy are > not relevant here. Sure it would be good to try to modify American > foreign policy in dozens of places, but no beneficial change in > American policy would affect our present enemies. Their recruits > would never learn of them or they would hear of them only through the > screen of propaganda created by their mullahs. But because this is > not a traditional war fought against a nation, it's also not obvious > that there is any reason for the prolonged bombing of Afghanistan. > Nothing the Bush people say is very credible, and it's hard to > believe that there are enough significant military targets in > Afghanistan to justify it. There are probably only two plausible > reasons for the bombing -- as domestic public relations for Bush, > because it offers visible evidence of America striking back, and as a > credible warning to Iraq, Libya, Syria etc, to keep out of it. If > there is real action against bin Laden or the Taliban, it will be > covert, while the bombers are probably killing more shepherds and > goats than bin Laden supporters or Taliban soldiers. I can imagine > reasonable people opposing the extended bombing. But I don't see any > reason why a so-called "leftist' would object to a serious ground > campaign aimed at overthrowing the Taliban, though I don't believe > Bush will undertake it. As for Buddhism in this time, the only kind > of Buddhism that might be politically valuable now is probably Zen, > which you may remember was the religion of the Samurai. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:10:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrea Baker Subject: FW: T: Shell Oil Chairman Gives Remarkable Speech]] In-Reply-To: <3BD0E3C3.58AF823F@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Though quite difficult to trust this seemed important as a glimmer of hope. Andrea ---- THE DAY THE WORLD CAME TO ITS SENSES? By Bill Moore Last in four part series of editorials on September 11th tragedy EVWorld October 07,2001 http://evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=245 This week, Phil Watts, the chairman of Royal Dutch Shell, gave a remarkable speech in New York, just three weeks after the tragedy of September 11th. Accustomed to making and approving business decisions and technology plans that extend decades into the future, Watts told an audience assembled under the auspices of the United Nations Development Program, that Shell, one of the largest oil companies in the world, was preparing for the "End of the Hydrocarbon Age." He painted two possible scenarios he termed, "Dynamics as Usual" and "The Spirit of the Coming Age." Under the first scenario, Shell envisions an "evolutionary" carbon shift from coal to natural gas to renewables. Petroleum's current 40 percent global energy share will drop to 25 percent by 2050. Natural gas market share will climb to 20 percent while the remainder will come from a combination of nuclear and various renewable sources. Under "The Spirit of the Coming Age" scenario, the world would experience a far more dramatic shift from carbon-intensive fuels to hydrogen. Watt's stated this second scenario, "explores something rather more revolutionary, the potential for a truly hydrogen economy, growing out of new and exciting developments in fuel cells, advanced hydrocarbon technologies and carbon dioxide sequestration." Watts envisioned fuel cells beginning to reach serious market penetration by 2025 and as a result dramatically altering the energy landscape long before oil becomes scarce. Watts isn't just talking the talk. He has pledged to walk the walk by committing between $500 million and $1 billion over the next five years to develop new energy businesses, concentrating primarily on solar and wind energy. Watts concluded his remarks by saying that oil companies can no longer assume they will dominate the next 100 years as they have the previous century. "That would be a very complacent view." Phil Watt's comments in New York this week are truly remarkable in the light of the events on and after September 11, 2001. Here is a major oil company executive publicly stating that the world is changing and his company plans to lead in this transition. He pointed out that not only does he intend to make Shell "a prime mover in this transitional period" but he also noted that "one in five of the world's population does not have access to commercial energy. It is our goal to contribute to the development of an affordable, sustainable energy system which will help reduce this sort of inequality." It is encouraging to hear someone of Watt's stature and influence recognizing the need to address global inequalities like this, for these are the true causes of social unrest that can ultimately lead to the use of the weapon of terrorism. Phil Watts recognizes the world is changing and the events of last month only underscore that reality. The real question is how will it change? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:35:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Outliners MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = Outliners IRC log started Sat Oct 20 23:01 *** Value of LOG set to ON *** Nikuko ([qIbgrP30O@panix3.panix.com) has joined channel #nikuko *** Users on #nikuko: @Nikuko *** #nikuko 1003633320 * Nikuko want to be alone this evening of white dust and stars * Nikuko dissolvers in your spores * Nikuko writers her shattered skin in your stars Ah, I will paint in nail-head line! in swallow line! Ah, I will write in glowworm line, in swollen female line! * Nikuko painters her torn skin into many kanji * Nikuko turn towards gnarled knot line, toward whirlpool line Her dark hair outlinered in white spore her bamboo knot line Her name in grackle line, her death in beauty white crane line * Nikuko brush in loving spores in white beauty anthrax * Nikuko writers in sublimation line, towards line of rising-up * Nikuko in white beauty anthrax in white beauty anthrax mouth * Nikuko in anthrax cunt, in anthrax nose, in white beauty eyes and ears * Nikuko in anthrax holes, in shit and piss, between the fingers * Nikuko between the fingers of the very hands * Nikuko between the toes, between the cheeks of the very ass I will spread my legs for you, I will be white beauty dust! I will tear my heart and lungs, I will fill with loving fluid! You will know me by my deeds, I will be your lover! You will know me by my deeds, I will be your lover! * Nikuko writers everywhere upon your beauty beauty * Nikuko writers everywhere taking you inside * Nikuko writers everywhere taking you inside *** Signoff: Nikuko (Killed) IRC log ended Sat Oct 20 23:12 == ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 08:10:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Drucker/Alexander via webcast Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our Johanna Drucker/Charles Alexander program (see below) will be webcast live. To participate you need only click on the web--and you will receive a video image and sound. You can ask questions or make comments by telephoning us or by emailing your question, which will read aloud. If you want to participate, write to "wh@english.upenn.edu" and we will send you more information about how to log on. For more information about our webcasts (and for recordings of previous webcasts), see http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/. Al Filreis The Class of 1942 Professor of English Faculty Director, the Kelly Writers House University of Pennsylvania << www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis >> b o o k a r t & p r i n t e d m a t t e r - a reading and symposium - featuring Johanna Drucker & Charles Alexander Thursday, October 25 5 PM at the Kelly Writers House 3805 Locust Walk University of Pennsylvania Co-sponsored by the University of the Arts, Singing Horse Press, and the Kelly Writers House. JOHANNA DRUCKER is a printer and a scholar whose scholarship centers on visual representations of language and the history of experimental poetry, the alphabet, and artists' books. She is the author of The Alphabetic Labyrinth: The Letters in History and Imagination (Thames and Hudson, 1995); The Century of Artists' Books (Granary Books, 1995); and The Visible Word: Experimental Typography and Modern Art, 1909-1923 (University of Chicago Press, 1994). She is the Robertson Professor of Media Studies at the University of Virginia. CHARLES ALEXANDER's books of poetry include Hopeful Buildings (Chax Press, Tucson, 1990) and arc of light / dark matter (Segue Books, New York, 1992), Pushing Water: parts one through six (Standing Stones Press, Morris, MN, 1998), and Pushing Water: part seven (Chax Press, Tucson. 1998), and Four Ninety Eight to Seven (Meow Press, San Diego, 1998). He edited Talking the Boundless Book: Art, Language, & the Book Arts (Minnesota Center for Book Arts, 1996). He is the founder and director of Chax Press in Tucson, Arizona. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:25:16 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, the other day he said "The evil won" and I thought "Good, now we can all relax"; but then he went on L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Beckett" To: Sent: 19 October 2001 23:50 Subject: (no subject) | Why does Bush keep talking about the Evil Dewars? | I think the stuff is pretty good. | | Tom Beckett | ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:45:49 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David ----- Original Message ----- From: "david antin" To: Sent: 19 October 2001 07:49 To extend the metaphor, to play to | a win or at least to a draw we have to go after the bishops,the rooks | and the queen, and finally the king. In chess you're not offered a | choice between peace and war. Either you defeat your enemy or your | enemy defeats you. This seems to be our current situation. It really doesn't look like that to me. For a start the identity of the enemy isn't clear. For another, the current action is likely to increase the number of recruits to the ill-defined enemy. Chess is a poor metaphor. There is | no way of making peace with the terrorist organizations. That's not what the US has said in Macedonia, Bosnia and Ireland. | But I don't see any | reason why a so-called "leftist' would object to a serious ground | campaign aimed at overthrowing the Taliban, though I don't believe | Bush will undertake it. I still don't know what a leftist is, so a so-called leftist could, for me, be anything; but I do have an objection against overthrowing the present government of Afghanistan; and that is that it isn't in the US or the UK. It isn't "our" business The situation is largely of the west's creation; and evidence from other places in the world where the west has practised a little political engineering, usually to solve a problem it created, backing for the UCK in Jugoslavia, for instance, has shown that one mess is replaced by another, killing people along the way If the USAUK is so concerned about people being terorised, why is it in alliance with the destructor of Chechnia? If it is so concerned about democracy and other rights in Afghanistan, why is it in alliance with Saudi Arabia? When there's a riot or some other disruption, it is quite common for people to hop out and loot a tv or a fridge; and it is not unusual that they'll explain what they did in political terms rather than admitting to opportunistic theft. It seems to me that Bush and Blair are looting the grief arising from Sep 11 to do something that has been on the wish list for a while This is an arms and oil game; and the people being killed are not pawns being lost in a game of chess but fireworks turning into dust at a rich persons' party all the best L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 16:07:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: FLASH : MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = FLASH : ::great towers reach up violently into sky :: bring planes down :: search and destroy all planes :: spores scream for help :: cows drop from violent sky :: horses too :: FLASH : all mail taken to central location in Kabul : FLASH : white powder spores planted near land-mine recognition : FLASH : gratitude from happy anthrax nation :: buildings house explosives for grateful population : FLASH : US postal delivers to Afghan cave complex ZIP-CODE 66666 :::: ::all great planes in lower sky reaches brought down by vigilante wooden homes in Trenton, New Jersey :: more cows fall from violent sky :: this train has stopped until further notice :: What All Terrorists Need to Know : The Essential Information :: FLASH : New York City N and R trains deliver well-known smog to eastern Afghanistan with Express A Train cooperation : FLASH : unprecedented movement of adobe Anasazi complex noted in western Iraq :: search and destroy all terrorists :: cliffs and caves expel evil spores :: gratitude of happy anthrax nation :: FLASH : sand turns against anthrax nation in sudden move : FLASH : anthrax caught unawares :: noted deep inhalation of N and R trains: could this be a well-known beginning:: great towers grapple sky terror :: all towers grounded until further notice :: airborne spores :: kill all infidels :: A, C, E trains in grateful cooperation :: FLASH : sand congeals : Miami Beach vacated :: FLASH : all white-powder Boca Raton future mail containing Powder of Eternal Life : FLASH : sponges revolt from ocean bottom : FLASH : FLASH : FLASH :: = ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:08:48 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Scott=20Hamilton?= Subject: Re: Poem 11 In-Reply-To: <005401c158db$517838c0$2d6e36d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit These are beautiful 'lines' Richard: 'the head on the table/like an accusation' 'the profound/books wait with/the white valley of their pages' There is another line of yours which turns up in my head at the strangest times: 'In the rumours of the lost rooms' No idea what it means, of course... SH ===== For "a ruthless criticism of every existing idea": THR@LL, NZ's class struggle anarchist paper http://www.freespeech.org/thrall/ THIRD EYE, a Kiwi lib left project, at http://www.geocities.com/the_third_eye_website/ and 'REVOLUTION' magazine, a Frankfurt-Christchurch production, http://cantua.canterbury.ac.nz/%7Ejho32/ ____________________________________________________________ Nokia Game is on again. Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new all media adventure before November 3rd. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:27:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: 100 days, 50 days MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrea, Thanks for sending a copy of your paper. I'm still digesting it, = but was struck by one phrase that realy hit me: "we must first = recognize that grief is as ideological as dying." I think that that = occurence is one that poets can do something about. we have seen = terror, grief, fear, etc. turned into soundbites and now commercials, = etc. If we let grief become ideological we have lost the battle if not = the war. tom bell =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:23:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Silence of 4 Terror Probe Suspects Poses Dilemma Comments: To: Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subj: [zizek-l] Silence of 4 Terror Probe Suspects Poses Dilemma Date: 10/22/2001 12:23:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: beckwith@uswest.net Reply-to: zizek-l@yahoogroups.com To: zizek-l@yahoogroups.com Sent from the Internet (Details) This is disturbing.... ____________________________________________- Silence of 4 Terror Probe Suspects Poses Dilemma By Walter Pincus Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, October 21, 2001; Page A06 FBI and Justice Department investigators are increasingly frustrated by the silence of jailed suspected associates of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network, and some are beginning to that say that traditional civil liberties may have to be cast aside if they are to extract information about the Sept. 11 attacks and terrorist plans. More than 150 people rounded up by law enforcement officials in the aftermath of the attacks remain in custody, but attention has focused on four suspects held in New York who the FBI believes are withholding valuable information. FBI agents have offered the suspects the prospect of lighter sentences, money, jobs, and a new identity and life in the United States for them and their family members, but they have not succeeded in getting information from them, according to law enforcement sources. "We're into this thing for 35 days and nobody is talking," a senior FBI official said, adding that "frustration has begun to appear." Said one experienced FBI agent involved in the investigation: "We are known for humanitarian treatment, so basically we are stuck. . . . Usually there is some incentive, some angle to play, what you can do for them. But it could get to that spot where we could go to pressure . . . where we won't have a choice, and we are probably getting there." Among the alternative strategies under discussion are using drugs or pressure tactics, such as those employed occasionally by Israeli interrogators, to extract information. Another idea is extraditing the suspects to allied countries where security services sometimes employ threats to family members or resort to torture. Under U.S. law, interrogators in criminal cases can lie to suspects, but information obtained by physical pressure, inhumane treatment or torture cannot be used in a trial. In addition, the government interrogators who used such tactics could be sued by the victim or charged with battery by the government. The four key suspects, held in New York's Metropolitan Correctional Center, are Zacarias Moussaoui, a French Moroccan detained in August initially in Minnesota after he sought lessons on how to fly commercial jetliners but not how to take off or land them; Mohammed Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan, Indians traveling with false passports who were detained the day after the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks with box cutters, hair dye and $5,000 in cash; and Nabil Almarabh, a former Boston cabdriver with alleged links to al Qaeda. Questioning of "the two with the box cutters and others have left us wondering what's the next phase," the FBI official said. One former senior FBI official with a background in counterterrorism said recently, "You can't torture, you can't give drugs now, and there is logic, reason and humanity to back that." But, he added, "you could reach a point where they allow us to apply drugs to a guy. . . . But I don't think this country would ever permit torture, or beatings." He said there was a difference in employing a "truth serum," such as sodium pentothal, "to try to get critical information when facing disaster, and beating a guy till he is senseless." "If there is another major attack on U.S. soil, the American public could let it happen," he said. "Drugs might taint a prosecution, but it might be worth it." Even some people who are firm supporters of civil liberties understand the pressures that are developing. David Cole, a professor at Georgetown University Law Center who obtained the release of Middle Eastern clients after they had been detained for years based on secret information, said that in the current crisis, "the use of force to extract information could happen" in cases where investigators believe suspects have information on an upcoming attack. "If there is a ticking bomb, it is not an easy issue, it's tough," he said. Kenneth W. Starr, the independent counsel during the Clinton administration, wrote recently that the Supreme Court distinguished terrorism cases from cases where lesser threats are involved. He noted that five justices in a recent deportation case recognized that the "genuine danger" represented by terrorism requires "heightened deference to the judgments of the political branches with respect to matters of national security." Former attorney general Richard L. Thornburgh said, "We put emphasis on due process and sometimes it strangles us." In the aftermath of Sept. 11, he said, "legally admissible evidence in court may not be the be-all and end-all." The country may compare the current search for information to brutal tactics in wartime used to gather intelligence overseas and even by U.S. troops from prisoners during military actions. Extradition of Moussaoui to France or Morocco is a possibility, one law enforcement official said. The French security services were quick to leak to journalists in Paris that they had warned the CIA and FBI in early September, before the attacks, that Moussaoui was associated with al Qaeda and had pilot training. The leak has irritated U.S. investigators in part because "it was so limited," one FBI official said. "Maybe we should give him [Moussaoui] to them," he said, noting that French security has a reputation for rough interrogations. The threat of extradition to a country with harsh practices does not always work. In 1997, Hani Abdel Rahim al-Sayegh, a Saudi citizen arrested in Canada and transferred to the United States under the promise that he would tell about the bombing of the Khobar Towers military barracks in Saudi Arabia, refused to cooperate in the investigation when he got here. The FBI threatened to have al-Sayegh sent back to Saudi Arabia, where he could have faced beheading, thinking it would get him to talk. "He called their bluff and went back, was not executed and is in jail," a government official said. Robert M. Blitzer, former chief of the FBI counterterrorism section, said offers of reduced sentences worked to get testimony in the cases of Ahmed Ressam, caught bringing explosives into the country for millennium attacks that never took place, and Ali Mohammed, the former U.S. Army Green Beret who pleaded guilty in the 1998 embassy bombings and provided valuable information about al Qaeda. The two former al Qaeda members who testified publicly in the 1998 bombing trials were resettled with their families in the United States under the witness protection program and given either money or loans to restart their lives. Torture "goes against every grain in my body," Blitzer said. "Chances are you are going to get the wrong person and risk damage or killing them." In the end, he said, there has to be another way. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:27:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Magee's Morning Constitutional at SPD Comments: cc: whcircle@dept.english.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: from "Small Press" at Sep 24, 2001 01:45:06 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Thought I'd let you know that my new book, _Morning Constitutional_ is now availble through Small Press Distribution (www.spdbooks.org) - they have a photo of the cover etc. I've reposted the Handwritten Press Announcement below. -Mike. ********* New from HANDWRITTEN PRESS MORNING CONSTITUTIONAL, by Michael Magee Place -- under arrest, outside the Ben Franklin House, a bit of declarative rhetoric echoing past the old psych ward, a decaying neighborhood, jazz struggling, the Amerinesiac that must needs awaken and feel its limbs. "The untimely state's AM radio" getting played here, detuned and refracted through Magee's acute sense of history and hearing. Here that? Michael Magee's poetry, "buzzes with the legislative, polemical and liberatory static of American political history" (K. Silem Mohammed). This buzzing refracts to us from the highway to the needle exchange, the monument to the bus stop. Magee is one of the most well-informed American poet-listeners. Bob Perelman says "his poems sound out the present tense histories and provide democratic key signatures so different people can play their meanings at once. We hear about a better place -- all the time, if we listen. But getting there is not an automatic thing. These poems help." Or as Heather Fuller writes, "This is not your ordinary peripateticism. For what Michael has tapped into is the psychotic tyranny of the antecedent, in which everything is thing, everyone is they, and all else is it, and this is how it is." "a high fidelity version of me staple-gunned" 88 pp. perfect bound, cover art by Mitchell Magee, $10.95. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:51:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Garin Lee Cycholl Subject: readings by Alex Shakar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Alex Shakar will be reading from his new novel, THE SAVAGE GIRL, in the following places this week: SAN FRANCISCO on Tuesday, 10/23 - at A Clean Well-Lighted Place (601 Van Ness) --- 7:30 P.M. BERKELEY on Wednesday, 10/24 - at Lafayette Bookstore (3579 Mt. Diablo Blvd.) --- 6:00 P.M. LOS ANGELES on Friday, 10/26 - at Skylight Books (1818 N. Vermont) --- 7:30 P.M. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:53:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Garin Lee Cycholl Subject: Aleksandar Hemon reading in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Aleksandar Hemon, author of THE QUESTION OF BRUNO, will be reading from his work as part of the campus reading series at the University of Illinois at Chicago on Thursday, October 25, at 12:30 P.M. The reading will be conducted at the UIC Rathskellar, which is located in the basement of the Atrium Building (near the southwest corner of Halsted and Harrison). All are invited. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:36:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: official verse culture & indie-rock poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A curious review of Kennings 8 & 10 in an Ohio indie-rock / small-press e-zine. http://www.splendidezine.com/departments/&/kenning810.html For the real deal on Mohammad's _hovercraft_, I'd recommend Maria Damon's review in XCP: Cross-Cultural Poetics #8. In the meantime, OFTEN (Kenning #11) is still available from SPD (www.spdbooks.org) - a collaborative theatrical work by Barbara Guest and Kevin Killian. The forthcoming issue of Kenning will be an audio edition to appear on a double-CD, and will feature recordings of / by Anne-Marie Albiach, Amiri Baraka, Lauren Gudath & Jay Schwartz, Andrew Levy & Gerry Hemingway, Nathaniel Mackey, Eileen Myles, Rodrigo Toscano, a new studio recording of Leslie Scalapino reading the entirety of her book-length poem WAY, and many other features, sonic and graphic. SPD will carry this, but ask your local bookseller to carry Kenning - that'd help. Finally, there's always www.durationpress.com/kenning KENNING | a newsletter of contemporary poetry poetics & nonfiction writing | 0 0 0 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:53:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Harryman/Sikelianos/Hunt Read in Detroit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This WEDNESDAY at the SCARAB CLUB in DETROIT from New York: ELENI SIKELIANOS and LAIRD HUNT from San Francisco via Detroit: CARLA HARRYMAN ***** ELENI SIKELIANOS Eleni Sikelianos's Earliest Worlds (Coach House Press) weds innovative technique with time-honored poetic tropes of individual and cosmos. Sikelianos has said, "I am interested in the absolute ferocity of poetry, in our wild, eccentric human selves, our animal and mineral planet, untainted by, but interacting with, socializing forces." She is the author of The Book of Tendons, The Lover's Numbers, and To Speak While Dreaming, and is the recipient of numerous awards, including a National Endowment for the Arts Fellowship. New York poet Barbara Guest has written of her work, "She directs us, via surprise in each line, to return to the unconscious, to the fierce, absolute sign, out of whose nourishing hand her poetry advances." LAIRD HUNT Laird Hunt, former press officer for the United Nations and New York correspondent for Mouth-to-Mouth Magazine, will read from his debut novel, The Impossibly (Coach House Press). "When the anonymous narrator botches an assignment from the clandestine organization that employs him, everyone in his life becomes a participant in his punishment. Hunt's impressive debut is a smart, funny noir filled with deadpan delivery and a sly eye for detail. This is a story of a man lost out of his mind in a complex, faulty-memory-driven world of dark absurdity." CARLA HARRYMAN Gardener of Stars, Carla Harryman's eleventh book, is an experimental novel that explores the paradise and wasteland of utopian desire. Other works by Harryman include two volumes of selected writing, There Never Was a Rose Without a Thorn; Animal Instincts: Prose, Essays, and Plays; a hybrid novel, The Words After Carl Sandburg's Rootabaga Stories and Jean-Paul Sartre; and a book-length dramatic work, Memory Play. Her most recent play, Objects Stationed on Platform in the Sub (Urban) World, premiered last year at Oxford Brookes University and will be staged in San Francisco, Detroit, and New York in 2002-2003. The Village Voice called her work "intelligent, sardonic, and elliptical to the point of delirium." ***** WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 24, 7:30 PM THE SCARAB CLUB 217 E. FARNSWORTH, DETROIT [CORNER OF JOHN R, OPPOSITE DIA] ***** SPONSORED BY THE WRITER'S VOICE/YMCA METRO DETROIT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:15:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Separations of Webbing: Poems for No. 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Separations of Webbing: Poems for No. 3 a eulogistic chapbook by the Atlanta Poets Group 36 pages featuring (especially) Dale Earnhardt, Buddy Baker, Mariah Carey, Prince Charming, Vanilla Ice, Alex Tribeck, Extreme, Paul Reubens, Richard Petty, Pooh, Piglet, Satan and many more. is now available, send $5 individuals $10 institutions (cash wd be best, but if checks or whatever make them out to John Lowther.) to 3rdness 2996 Hermance Dr. NE Atlanta GA 30319 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:30:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Loudmouth Collective at Tonic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Please join the Loudmouth Collective at Tonic on Thursday, October 25, as we present: A sound poem for 6 typewriters, 1 piano, and 500 balloons popping. A language film by the incredible Joel Schlemowitz. and a surprise from Yelena Gluzman's science project. (expect to see all the usual suspects you have come to love as well as new faces...) Please join us as we take the anti-reading approach to Tonic's Prime Time. Also on the bill: The amazing avant sensation: Mathew Shipp 7:00 PM Sharp (please come as early as possible) 107 Norfolk (F to Delancey) $10 - All proceeds got to benefit H.O.W.L., and anti-war campaign. For more information: http://www.uglyducklingpresse.org/loudmouth/howl.htm -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:47:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: more New From Avec Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New From Avec Books Vicinities Lisa Lubasch In Vicinities, her follow-up to How Many More of Them Are You? (Avec = Books 1999, winner of the Norma Farber First Book Award), Lisa Lubasch illuminates a myriad of landscapes and narratives. In some poems, she magnifies and elevates subjects ranging from the swooping flight of a = bird to the approach of a werewolf to a fallen angel's climb "back into = unlife" with winning precision. In other poems, she plumbs the ever-changing knowledge "I" has of "you" with far-reaching intelligence and foresight. Throughout, her personal voice grounds cascading turns of phrase, = flights of imagination, and philosophically informed dramatic outbursts. = Redolent with the timeless excitement of true intellectual discovery, this book gives us a spiritual education in the guise of a linguistic feast. Cover art by Louise Bourgeois, courtesy of Cheim & Read, NY * = Publication Date: Oct. 22, 2001 * List Price $14 * 95 pgs. * ISBN: 1-880713-27-6 * Distributed by Small Press Distribution For excerpts and additional information:www.poetrypress.com/avec ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:14:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Manderley Comments: To: ira@angel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My first book of poems has come out, and I am going on a tour of the US to read from it. It's called Manderley and it's published by the University of Illinois Press, and here's the url: http://www.press.uillinois.edu/f01/wolff.html and here are the many dates of my tour. I hope to see you there, or perhaps your friends in these places. MANDERLEY Reading Tour October 29th, 8 pm Shaman Drum Bookstore, Ann Arbor, MI October 30th, 6:30 pm The Poetry Center of Chicago Ballroom of the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, 112 S. Michigan Avenue November 1st, 8 pm Prairie Lights, Iowa City, IA November 2nd, 7 pm Rain Taxi Reading Series, pARTS Gallery, Minneapolis MN November 5th, at 8 pm Humanities Institute Room, Sturm #286, Denver University, Denver, CO with Chelsey Minnis November 6th, 7 pm Fort Collins Museum of Contemporary Art 201 S. College Avenue, Fort Collins, CO with Chelsey Minnis November 7, 7 on Salt Lake Public Library, 500 South 200 East, Salt Lake City, UT with Chelsey Minnis and Catherine Wagner November 8, 7:30 pm Log Cabin Literary Center, 801 S. Capitol Blvd., Boise, ID with Chelsey Minnis November 19th University of Las Vegas, NV with Chelsey Minnis and Catherine Wagner November 29, 7:30 PM Fretwell Hall Auditorium, University of North Carolina at Charlotte with Jane Mead December 1st, 11 am New Dominion Bookstore, Charlottesville, VA with Lisa Spaar December 3rd, 4 pm Miami University in Oxford, OH December 18th, 6:30 pm The New School, 66 west 12th Street, room 510, New York City with Cate Marvin, introduced by Robert Pinsky February 4th Brookline Booksmith, Brookline, MA with Cate Marvin February 7th Barnard College, New York with Sarah Messer and Eleni Sikelianos April 7 CCS reading series, White Street Synagogue, New York with Joanna Goodman ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:43:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: Rehm & O'Leary in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pam Rehm & Peter O'Leary reading at Harold Washington Library, 400 South State Street, Chicago Chicago Authors Room, 7th Floor Saturday, October 27, 1:00 PM sponsored by Chicago Poetry Project ----------------------------- Also don't miss Pam Rehm & Jeff Clark reading at the University of Chicago in Hyde Park Classics 10 Thursday, October 25th at 5:30 pm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:49:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit elizabeth, >>Who would you choose?<< don't know too many poets. & can't think of many (hence my initial question) who'd take much action beyond political poetry or speaking out much less run for office. unsure i could make that sacrifice either. anne waldman might make a fine senator. ?sigh, h *i don't think j. carter counts... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:08:56 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sub Voicive Poetry Subject: Re SVP website Comments: To: Poetryetc , britpo , PoetryEspresso@topica.com, webartery@yahoogroups.com, wryting@julian.uwo.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit APOLOGIES FOR CROSS-POSTING The svp website is moving with immediate effect to http://pages.britishlibrary.net/svp/ It is perhaps primarily of interest to those attending readings and other events in London; but there is a great deal of information there which has a wider application, including biographical notes, which are updated at the poets' request, and texts of reviews and introductions Please update your address books, links pages, listings etc The whole thing has been transferred and should be as ok as it was before immediately (to be improved). However, that had not been perfect recently; and there are a number of additions and restorations which, though they work offline, have not been tested online due to further outages at crosswinds (where the website used to be) PLEASE REPORT ANY BUGS YOU DISCOVER (For instance, the gratuitous Tenniel rabbit was refusing to appear a few minutes ago despite offers of electronic lettuce). They will be dealt with ASAP. It is anticipated that the new location will be more reliable than previous locations. The lack of advertisements should be a relief Speaking of which, the next reading at SVP, the sexy and desirable poetry event where it is essential to be seen, is Tuesday 30th October 2001 when Tony Lopez reads Tony Lopez has been active as a poet since the 1970s, publications include _Devolution_ (The Figures, 2000), _Data Shadow_ (Reality Street, 2000), _False Memory_ (The Figures, 2000), _Negative Equity_ (Equipage, 1995), and _Stress Management_ (Boldface, 1994). His poetry is represented in major anthologies such as _Twentieth Century British and Irish Poetry_ ( Oxford University Press, New York, 2001), _Other: British and Irish Poetry since 1970_ (Wesleyan, USA, 1999) and _Conductors of Chaos_ (Picador, UK, 1996). His critical writing includes _The Poetry of W S Graham_ (Edinburgh University Press, 1989, Society of Authors Blundell Award, 1990) and, more recently, essays on David Antin, John Ashbery, Steve Benson, Ted Berrigan, Andrew Crozier, Lee Harwood, J H Prynne, Ezra Pound, Tom Raworth and Denise Riley. He lives in Devon and teaches at the University of Plymouth. "In any of these stanzas language emits the toxic glow of an intertextuality for which a functioning media awareness is its sufficient context . . . from the start this writing anticipates the postmodern as a future condition of the person" Andrew Crozier on False Memory in JACKET 11 "Tony Lopez's poetry is a structure of feeling of our displaced present. Like any good student of British culture, he has a healthy suspicion of the aesthetic. But art is still his vehicle of choice. He is riding it past a windmill operated by a multinational conglomerate. The landscape is familiar, though everything in it has entirely changed." Barrett Watten, cover note for Devolution "I had been waiting for this poetry a long time, a poetry politically relevant and at the same time unapologetic in its confidence. These works are completely current, and history will welcome them again and again." David Bromige, cover note for Devolution "It is as if Baudrillard had penetrated far more deeply into our lives than we had imagined." Douglas Oliver, on When You Wish from Stress Management Sub Voicive Poetry, Betsey Trotwood, Farringdon Road, London E C 1, opposite but not connected with The Guardian. Shepherd Neame beer. Electric light. Flush toilets. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:03:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: involvement/action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi again karen. thanks for letting me know about judy einach - it's exactly the kind of thing i'm interested in hearing about. >>I believe that poetry does provide an important level of support. It helps to keep those same converted refreshed and syched. If, in gathering together as poets or as an audience these same people feel buoyed to continue their efforts at effecting timely political change then poetry has had a positive effect. I believe it is possible that a point of poetic view can impact a reader and create change in thought.<< while i agree with you on all points, i'm increasingly feeling a sense of political urgency & would like to hear of more broad/progressive/innovative action. maybe to many of us these days few things seem to do enough. thanks, hassen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 17:49:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ed Friedman Subject: New E-mail Address Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Please note that I am changing my e-mail address. Lori Landes is also receiving e-mail at this address. The new address: edisacommie@earthlink.net Hope this finds you well. ED ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:57:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII -= (en)(ei)(ka(why))((why)ou)(ka(why))(oh) ((es)(ee)(ee))(a(why))(ar)(ar)(why)(ei)(en)(gee) (tea)(ha(ei)(tea)ch)(ee) (a(why))(pee)(oh)(ar)(ei)(a(why)) (oh)(ef) (d(ee)(ee))(ei)(es)(es)(ee)(em)(ei)(en)(a(why))(tea)(ei)(oh)(en): (ef)(ei)(gee)((why)ou)(ar)(ee) 1 - (ja(why))(ee)(en)(en)(ei)(ef)(ee)(ar) (b(ee)(ee))(ar)(ee)(a(why))(ka(why))(ei)(en)(gee) (d(ee)(ee))(oh)(double-u)(en) (ef)(oh)(ar)(gee)(ee)(tea)(tea)(ei)(en)(gee) (double-u)(oh)(ar)(el)(d(ee)(ee))(es): (ef)(ei)(gee)((why)ou)(ar)(ee) 2 - 1 pico zz 2 sed 's/a/(ay)/g' zz > yy 3 sed 's/b/(bee)/g' yy > zz 4 sed 's/c/(see)/g' zz > yy 5 sed 's/d/(dee)/g' yy > zz 6 sed 's/e/(ee)/g' zz > yy 7 sed 's/f/(ef)/g' yy > zz 8 sed 's/g/(gee)/g' zz > yy 9 sed 's/h/(haitch)/g' yy > zz 10 wc zz 11 pico zz 12 h 13 sed 's/i/(ei)/g' zz > yy 14 sed 's/j/(jay)/g' yy > zz 15 sed 's/k/(kay)/g' zz > yy 16 sed 's/l/(el)/g' yy > zz 17 sed 's/m/(em)/g' zz > yy 18 sed 's/n/(en)/g' yy > zz 19 sed 's/o/(oh)/g' zz > yy 20 sed 's/p/(pee)/g' yy > zz 21 sed 's/q/(queue)/g' zz > yy 22 sed 's/r/(ar)/g' yy > zz 23 sed 's/s/(es)/g' zz > yy 24 sed 's/t/(tea)/g' yy > zz 25 sed 's/u/(you)/g' zz > yy 26 sed 's/v/(vee)/g' yy > zz 27 sed 's/w/(double-u)/g' zz > yy 28 sed 's/x/(ex)/g' yy > zz 29 sed 's/y/(why)/g' zz > yy 30 sed 's/z/(zee)/g' yy > zz 31 wc zz = ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:19:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: POETRY PROJECT EVENTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CALENDAR OF EVENTS 24 JO ANN WASSERMAN AND SHARAN STRANGE JO ANN WASSERMAN is a former Poetry Project Program Coordinator who has recently returned to New York City from San Francisco where she was a student at the New College of California. Author of two chapbooks-What Counts As Proof and We Build Mountains-she has recently completed a book-length series of poems entitled The Escape. SHARAN STRANGE is the author of Ash, winner of the 2000 Barnard New Women Poets Prize. She is a contributing and advisory editor of Callaloo and cofounder of the Dark Room Collective. Her poetry has appeared in Agni, The American Poetry Review, Callaloo, The Best American Poetry 1994, The Garden Thrives, In Search of Color Everywhere, and in exhibitions at the Whitney Museum in New York and the Institute of Contemporary Art in Boston. Yusef Komunyakaa writes, "Ash embodies a voice we can count on, informed by the grace and wit of the South. [...] Ash traces that alchemy by which the life stories of those around us are transmuted into our own." [8:00 P.M.] 26 LANGUAGE ART - TALK THAT TALK: POETS READ AND PERFORM LLOYD ROBSON, EISA DAVIS, PATRICK KOSIEWICZ, GRIFFIN HANSBURY, MARCO VILLALOBOS, and BASSEY IKPI. A night of "round-robin" style reading from a fascinatingly diverse group of writer/performers. LLOYD ROBSON's books include: City & Poems, Edge Territory (photographs and poems), and Letter from Sissi. City & Poems was included in The Independent Newspapers Best Books of 1996 (Cardiff, Wales). Nigerian-born BASSEY IKPI, a regular on the NYC slam circuit, is a member of Team Union Square 2K1 and the current NY Def Poetry Jam representative. MARCO VILLALOBOS is poetry editor for Brooklyn Bridge Magazine. His poetry has been included in Step into a World: A Global Anthology of the New Black Literature, Intense, S.P.A.W.N. and the Brooklyn Review. GRIFFIN HANSBURY's poems have appeared in Blood & Tears: Poems for Matthew Shepard, Brownstone Review, Jacket, Long Shot, Nerve Cowboy, and Pearl Slipstream. EISA DAVIS is a poet, performer and playwright. Her play Paper Armor will be read at the Langston Hughes' Centenary Conference at Yale in February, and her play Umkovu was featured in the Hip Hop Theatre Festival this past June. PATRICK KOSIEWICZ is working on his first book. He is an editor for Tribes and The Durable Press. [10:30 p.m.] 29 POM POM: POETRY JOURNAL Pom Pom, a brand spankin' new journal for poetry that seeks to foster a poetic polylogue by printing poems that talk with one another. For the debut issue, the editors sought poems from poets willing to have their work responded to, altered, lifted, plagiarized, or transformed. In subsequent issues the magazine promises work that flirts with, stomps on, folds up, bosses around, takes liberties with, and generally engages with poems in previous issues. Readers this evening are CHRIS JACKSON, NASHVILLE; JENN MCCREARY, PHILADELPHIA; CAROL MIRAKOVE, BROOKLYN; C.E. PUTNAM, SEATTLE; DEBORAH RICHARDS, PHILADELPHIA; and GARY SULLIVAN, Brooklyn; as well as the editors: ALLISON COBB; JEN COLEMAN; ETHAN FUGATE; SUSAN LANDERS. [8:00 P.M.] ------ Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. If you are currently on our email list and would like to be on our regular mailing list (so you can receive a sample issue of The Poetry Project Newsletter for FREE), just reply to this email with your full name and address. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:09:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Calling your attention to a reading by Bruce Andrews, Harriet Zinnes (who will be reading from her new chapbook entitled PLUNGE published by poet Randolph Healy of the Wild Honey Press of Ireland) and Jeanne Lambert on Saturday, October 27, at 3:00 pm at The EAr Inn, 326 Spring Street, New York City (free). Welcome! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 02:20:07 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Walker Subject: David Antin: A Response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My considerations were purely practical. No. They seem to be metaphorical. See below. If the plane you're flying in happens to be hi-jacked, it's probably more useful to kill the hi-jackers than to speculate on the nature of their grievances. This is a defence of wilful ignorance. A closer analogy with what is happening is that having equipped yourself with a large gun, your 'constitutional right', you now kill your fellow passengers because you're angry at being hijacked, running the risk that you puncture the plane's metal skin in the process. In the case of our World Tower hijackers, they saved us the trouble and killed themselves. But these hijackers were just pawns in the game and this was simply a pawn sacrifice. (The chess metaphor may be specially appropriate, since the Arabs introduced the game into Europe.) '...saved us the trouble...', 'simply a pawn sacrifice'? These expressions diminish the seriousness of the situation and induce a sense of disengagement, returning us to the point at which the deaths of 5,000+ people seemed like a disaster movie viewed by leisured spectators. The Arabs introduced the *game*. In recent years the *metaphor* has been used (Cf its obsessional deployment during the war over Kosovo/a) to decorate rather primitive command-and-control models of much more complex events. So here. In an earlier era the metaphor was 'dominoes', of course. Let's be 'practical', not antiquarian. To extend the metaphor, to play to a win or at least to a draw we have to go after the bishops, the rooks and the queen, and finally the king. But the metaphor is hopelessly flawed from the outset. What about other metaphors? Cutting the heads of Hydras? Sowing dragons' teeth? Either you defeat your enemy or your enemy defeats you. These aren't the only options. You can, in a pathological fit, destroy yourself. The lesson of the suicidal hijackers cuts both ways. There is no way of making peace with the terrorist organizations. That's a defence of intransigence. But let's make that assumption, even though it may be wrong. Is this a legitimate casus belli, given that the terrorist organisations are widely distributed? That is, should one just pick a country or two and bomb them and/or invade them? Are the war aims achievable? That is, will bombing and/or invading Afghanistan bring peace, prosperity and moderation to that country? Will eliminating Usama bin Laden, Ayman al Zawahiri and Mullah Tom Cobbley destroy al Qa'ida? Will the growth in violent Islamist activity elsewhere tail away as a result or will it increase? Nothing that the U.S. can do as a country or that its citizens can do as individuals can create peace with them. [...] Sure it would be good to try to modify American foreign policy in dozens of places, but no beneficial change in American policy would affect our present enemies. The rhetoric of impotence is misplaced. I can't negotiate with dry rot. I can 'defeat' it, cutting away at structural timbers in the process. I can also reduce the likelihood of a recurrence by addressing the conditions in which dry rot occurs. Their recruits would never learn of [these changes] or they would hear of them only through the screen of propaganda created by their mullahs. Does this include those said to be based in the West? There are probably only two plausible reasons for the bombing -- as domestic public relations for Bush, because it offers visible evidence of America striking back, and as a credible warning to Iraq, Libya, Syria etc, to keep out of it. Yes. The first is, morally, the *worst* sort of reason. The second, the 'credible warning', offers militant Islamists the proof they need: it writes the extremists' scripts. But I don't see any reason why a so-called "leftist' would object to a serious ground campaign aimed at overthrowing the Taliban Replacing it with *what* exactly? The labile confederacy of minority leaders and warlords making up the Northern Alliance, which will be discredited in any case through being seen as US stooges? Chaps in blue hats sitting smoking in their trucks whilst Afghanistan further destroys itself and continues to be destroyed? A post Taleban Pashtounistan, incorporating part of a wrecked, dismembered Pakistan, formed after the US loses heart or interest and equipped with nuclear weapons? Sorry to be so rude. Christopher Walker ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:22:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG, Sunday Oct 28 (this Sunday!) 2 pm: JON ANDERSON & SHEILA PITT (UA Art Museum) Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit for immediate release POG presents Mixed-Media Artist Sheila Pitt Poet Jon Anderson Sunday, October 28, 2pm, University of Arizona Museum of Art (in the Fine Arts Complex) Sheila Pitt is a printmaker, painter, and soft-sculpture and mixed-media artist who lives and works in Tucson. She’s a professor in the Art Department of the University of Arizona and has had numerous shows in Tucson and across the country. Her presentation coincides with an installation of her work at the University of Arizona Museum of Art. Jon Anderson is the author of several books of poetry, among them Looking for Jonathan, Death & Friends, In Sepia, The Milky Way: Poems 1967-1982, and the recently published Day Moon. He teaches creative writing at the University of Arizona. POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council and the Arizona Commission on the Arts POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Extended University Writing Works Center, The University of Arizona Department of English, The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, and Chax Press. We also thank the following POG Sponsors: Maggie Golston, Mary Rising Higgins, Tenney Nathanson, and Frances Sjoberg. for further information contact POG: 296-6416 mailto:pog@gopog.org or visit us on the web at: www.gopog.org mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:03:26 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: Fear of Thinking (article--link) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christina--- thanks for posting this--- chris s. Christina Milletti wrote: > http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?tf=tgam/common/F > > ullStory.html&cf=tgam/common/FullStory.cfg&configFileLoc=tgam/config& > date=20011005&dateOffset=&hub=columnists&title=Columnists& > cache_key=columnistsNational¤t_row=1&start_row=1&num_rows=1 > > THE GLOBE AND MAIL, Friday, October 5, 2001 ? Page A17 COMMENT > > The fear of thinking > > By RICK SALUTIN > > If truth is the first casualty in war, I guess we can now say humour is the > second. Poor Bill Maher of Politically Incorrect continues to be pilloried > in the U.S., from the White House down, for bravely raising questions on > what cowardice and bravery are. Jay Leno, David Letterman and Saturday Night > Live agonize over how hard it is to be funny in times like these, and do > they dare? Up here, Rick Mercer withdrew his Gemini nomination for his > hilarious interviews with Americans -- at exactly the time when pointing out > general ignorance in the U.S. about the rest of the world would be a public > service. On the upside, Frank magazine has not shirked its duty to deal with > the grim realities, nor has the American humour mag The Onion ("Hugging up > 76,000%"; "U.S urges bin Laden to form nation it can attack"). > > Many of us tend to associate funny with smart and, on that basis, I nominate > as the third casualty thought itself, especially when it's sharp and > critical. Listen to this call not to think from the National Post: "If we > are to be a reliable partner . . . our ruling caste must disabuse itself of > the fallacy that to be a good Canadian, one must be skeptical or even > hostile to America." Must not be skeptical -- when thinking about a crucial > national issue? Yet I'd say it's a widespread sentiment, judging by reader > mail. Beyond the usual thoughtful disagreements, I'm hearing a new note that > says not You're dead wrong, but How dare you even raise these questions? > > It's as if a set of official propositions has been laid down: We are good. > They are evil. It's a war. Only one side can survive. No other factors or > analysis apply. Those who don't accept these propositions are fools or > worse. Anyone skeptical about these articles of faith, better watch it. I'm > not saying the mood is universal -- happily it isn't -- but it's out there. > > I asked a friend from a Catholic background why this mood has taken hold. > She said it's obviously a religious response of a primitive or > fundamentalist type. People who feel panic, fear or terror often seize on > simple beliefs and cling to them. Beliefs are potent, yet they are > precarious -- precisely because they are often held either without or > despite any evidence. Those who hold them don't want to hear questions or > doubts, because it will shake that tenuous security. This doesn't just > happen with religion, nor is this the only form religion takes; rather, it's > about the role played by simplistic beliefs at harsh moments. > > Thought is the enemy of other forms of simplistic belief, too, such as > racial or cultural generalizations. So it's not surprising that the latter > tend to re-emerge in times like these. Robert Fulford wrote that "Muslims > show a greater propensity for war than any of the other disputatious > civilizations now competing." A propensity for war? Among 1.3 billion > different people? Margaret Wente said, "Anti-Semitism is so entrenched > throughout the Muslim world that no peace settlement will ever quench it." > Ever? Aside from the past 50 years, the record of the Muslim world on Jews > is probably far better than the Christian one. A National Post editorial > found it "hard to get worked up about the occasional slur" at Muslims and > "something offensive about the tear-drenched press releases issued by North > American Muslim organizations." Presumably, it's less hard if your daily > routines, such as driving your cab or going shopping, have become easier to > abandon than to carry through. > > Thought is also the enemy of radical terror, like suicide bombings. Think > about the five-page letter apparently found among hijacker Mohammed Atta's > belongings, a dual checklist of practical measures ("check out your weapon") > and ways to ward off doubt ("remember: it is a raid for the sake of Allah"). > Shakespeare dealt a lot with this function of thought. Macbeth and Hamlet > have disabling doubts not before they decide to act violently but between > then and the deed. T. S. Eliot wrote, "Between the idea/ And the reality/ > Between the motion/ And the act/ Falls the Shadow." > > Recently, journalist Andrea Curtiss spoke sadly about what she sees as the > best -case scenario for the fix we're in. That's when the Bush government, > despite mirroring the rhetoric of their foe (Good versus Evil etc.) acts > coolly, as they're doing, and avoids the descent into devastation (massive > retaliation followed by more terror followed by . . .). But the price we pay > is vast restriction of our freedoms and suppression of debate, in the name > of the war against terror. The critique of globalization gets cut off, for > instance, and so do Bill Maher's wry cracks. Neither has anything to do with > terror, but it's almost impossible for those in power to resist the chance > to stifle protest and advance their agenda. > > It's the Cold War all over again, when "anti-communism" was used to shut > down almost all opposition, at home and abroad. What can we do except: Keep > thinking, keep doubting, grit your teeth and laugh right through them. > > rsalutin@globeandmail.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:59:53 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Fw: Tinfish book announcement Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Schultz" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 11:23 AM Subject: Tinfish book announcement > > > > After months of delays and cost over-runs, I'm pleased to announce the > publication of Lisa Linn Kanae's autobiographical and historical essay, > _Sista Tongue_ (c. 60 pages), beautifully designed by Kristin Kaleinani > Gonzales, a recent UH graduate. Kanae, who earned an M.A. from the > English department, teaches at KCC and serves as an editorial assistant > for _'Oiwi: A Native Hawaiian Journal_. Her poem, "Ola's Son," which was > published in _Tinfish_ 9, has had a successful off-the-page life as a > play, which was featured at Mark's Garage some months back. > > _Sista Tongue_ weaves together the story of Kanae's brother, Harold, a > "late-talker," with the history of pidgin English in Hawai`i, arguing that > pidgin was (and often still is) considered a "speech defect." > > Please consider using this book in your classes, whether in composition, > autobiography or Asia-Pacific cultural studies. > > The book is $10, $8 for students. Checks should be made out to Tinfish. > > > thanks, > > Susan > > PLEASE SEND THIS MESSAGE ON.... > ______________________________________________ > > > Susan M. Schultz > Associate Professor > Dept. of English > 1733 Donaghho Road > University of Hawai'i-Manoa > Honolulu, HI 96822 > > http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/schultz > http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/ezines/tinfish > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:26:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: poetic news Comments: cc: reiner strasser MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've heard from an international source that possibly the media in th US = are somewhat selctive in the information they highlightparticularly in = the frequent 'soundbite' form we get it. As memory serves this was true = during the Vietnem era as it may have been true at other times. I'm = sure this is not 'news' to many here and i don't think there is any = particular culprit to point a finger at or that finger pointing does = anything constructive. but at the same time it does seem to me that perhaps poetry is a 'better' = source of news? tom bell =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:10:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: e Subject: Elizabeth Alexander-THURSDAY Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please join us this THURSDAY, 4:30pm in the Visual Arts Performing Space-- Elizabeth Alexander reads from her work... > ****Please forward and distribute this announcement as widely as > possible**** Dear Friends, It is my pleasure to invite you to a very special event. On Thursday October 25 at 4:30 Elizabeth Alexander will present a poetry reading on campus at the Visual Arts Performing Space. For anyone interested in the African American experience, contemporary poetry or jazz, you will not want to miss this. Alexander is an extraordinary young poet already widely anthologized. The New York Times Book Review has said that "Elizabeth Alexander creates intellectual magic in poem after poem." In a stunning third collection of poetry, Antebellum Dreambook (2001), she furthers her reputation as a vital and vivid poetic voice on race, gender, politics, and motherhood. Alexander has read her poetry and lectured on African American literature and culture across the country and abroad. Her two previous collections of poetry include The Venus Hottentot and Body of Life. She is a faculty member at Cave Canem Poetry Workshop and teaches at Yale University. Please join me in providing her with a big, welcoming, and enthusiastic UCSD audience. I look forward to seeing you on the 25th. With warm regards, Nicole King > > Upcoming Readings... WEDNESDAY, October 31 BOB PERELMAN THURSDAY, November 8 WILL ALEXANDER WEDNESDAY, November 14 BILL MOHR / PAUL NAYLOR TUESDAY, November 20 ED FRIEDMAN new! THURSDAY, November 29 ANNE CARSON ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:03:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Reminder: Louis Cabri & Ken Edwards at the Kootenay School of Writing Comments: To: x@y.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Two Talks & A Reading Kootenay School of Writing 201 - 505 Hamilton Street Vancouver Canada 604-688-6001 Towards a Trotskyist Poetics? The Example of Earle Birney A Talk by Louis Cabri Thursday October 25 8pm Ken Edwards Reading New Poetry Friday October 26 8pm "Liberalism equals the gulag" : negation & equivalency in Bruce Andrews' I Don't Have Any Paper So Shut Up (or, Social Romanticism) A Talk by Louis Cabri Studies in Practical Negation guest speaker Saturday October 27 2pm Born in Calgary, 1904, raised in the Kootenays, Earle Birney established the first Trotskyist group in Western Canada and drafted policy documents for the founding body of Trotskyism in Canada. His singular trajectory from radical sectarian to canonical poet absorbs contradictions in a way that only a 'Trotskyist poetics' might resolve. The tenuous thread of radical Marxism in Canada, in its relation to poetic practice, particularly modernist form, begins, like it or not, with the example of Earle Birney. Ken Edwards is a British writer & composer. His books include Lorca: an elegiac fragment, Tilth, Drumming & Poems, Intensive Care, Good Science: Poems 1983-1991, 3600 Weekends, Futures, & Glory Box. He is the editor & publisher of Reality Street Editions and plays violin with the new music ensemble COMA. Edwards' visit is sponsored by the British Council. Louis Cabri is the author of The Mood Embosser (Couch House, 2001) and curator of the PhillyTalks series of dialogues with contemporary writers . He is the co-editor and publisher, with Robert Manery, of hole books. << On a Greimasian grid of 'late capitalism', Andrews' "social romanticism" projects the negative counterpart, and domestic equivalent, of Soviet socialist realism. High modernist precedents? Forget it! The order-word of order-words - change! - ever since the consolidation of the bourgeoisie, here is obstructed in every detail. This is a state novel for America. >> November Events: Rob Manery: Book Launch It's Not as If It Hasn't Been Said Before (from Tsunami Editions) Saturday November 3 8pm Bernadette Mayer: Reading & Talk Saturday November 10: Reading 8pm Sunday November 11: Talk 2pm Sianne Ngai, Kevin Davies, Deirdre Kovac, Dan Farrell: Readings & Panel Saturday November 24 Reading at the Western Front 8pm Sunday November 25 Panel at KSW: Recent Events 2pm The Kootenay School of Writing is a not-for-profit writer-run centre founded in 1984 to carry out counter-hegemonic writing practices in post-national, de-institutionalized, anti-professional and collaborative contexts. KSW hosts readings, talks and panels with visiting and local writers, offers free seminars and critical reading groups, publishes W magazine, and operates the Charles Watts Memorial Library, a collection of books, journals, audio & video recordings, and ephemera that document contemporary & 20th century rearticulatory writing. The centre offers a programme for people wishing to engage with writing & politics outside of the econometrics of official verse culture--the workshop industry, spoken-word slams, creative writing degrees, "quality literature" & "accomplished authors", CanLit, "alternative poetry" scenes--without mentors, pedagogues, arts bureaucrats or other recuperators. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 09:28:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Jimmy Smith A nice rant from Jimmy Smith, Los Angeles musician, reprinted from the Texas e mag called nerdnosh. Jimmy (Guitar) Smith can be reached at rjgeezer@aol.com. It's starting to seem like our trusty Gov officials have worked out the way to deal with our "Twenty-first Century War" What began as a simple campaign back in junior high school, has grown from that first big win on the "Most hideously dressed hall monitor" ticket, through the years of "brown noser general" into the real world of "sociologists for a less personal view", and other high offices. Now our futures are safe in the hands of the hopelessly lost in rhetoric. I especially like the new plan to send money into the region of our enemies in order to deprive them of money. It smacks of the kind of thinking that is too busy correcting the spelling of jokes to get the actual joke. A priest and a Rabbi walk into a bar. "Why would they be going to a bar?" It don't matter, maybe to get a drink. "Are they in their clerical garb?" Hell I don't know, anyway, they walk into this bar. "which bar?" just a bar "is it a nightclub, or a beer and wine place or what?" I don't know. "well I don't see anything funny about that" It is also a pretty swell idea to send lots of new expensive armored vehicles and unwieldy guns into the dirt mountains that comprise pretty much all of the hostile region we are being careful of. The Russian equipment the locals stole a few years back is kind of out of date and out of ammo, so the locals need something new and interesting, and fun, to steal. "Russian tank is shit, look at new American tank I got, worth three perhaps five Camels" We shouldn't be sending our boys either, we should be sending our Boy Bands. N' Sync Invades Turkbarkistan. They could sing watered down Temptations harmonies and dance some hip hop at the filthy Turkbarkistanians, and confuse the hell out of everybody. Then when we find what's left of their bodies we could have a raffle. Get a sponsor, a host, (Carrot top comes to mind) and raise more money to send into the region to deprive the region of money. Personally, I don't know what to think, because nobody in charge has actually told me what is really going on for the past fifty years that I have been aware that something seemed to be going on, and I don't know why they would start now. Is Elvis really dead? Did we send a spaceship to the moon? El Nino, Global warming and Elian? Rumors or profit? Are those tits real? Are we barking at the right moon in the first place? My wife and I can't get health care. She is a disabled science student, with several years of four point O grades and honors certificates adorning the walls, I work several days a week as a volunteer for various recovery organizations, helping addicts return to consciousness so they can see how truly screwed they are. But we don't have seven small children with doubtful national origins and no discernible genetic links to speak of, so we don't qualify for medical help, or financial help, or any other government aid I can think of without being willing to lie and cheat to get it. I wish I knew what I was talking about. Damn, I wish somebody knew what they were talking about. Like a good soldier I would get my gun and go stand up front, and say yes sir because I do know that that is the way it is done. I would give my life for my country, no bones about it. Is that as funny as the priest and rabbi joke? I think not. jimmy smith A Priest and a Rabi walk into a bar, the bartender looks up and sees them and says "Hey, is this a joke"? Jimmy Smith ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:21:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sawako Nakayasu Subject: Call for collaborative work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed [ factorial !press ] is dedicated to publishing radical text-collaborations, and welcomes submissions of work for its inaugural issue. (Poster and book submissions will also be considered, on an ongoing basis.) Emphasis is on exploratory, genreless, and/or multicultural writing. Possibilities include radical articulations of plays, performance text, transcriptions, instructions, narrative, conversations, essays, poems, definitions, manifestos, incidental text. Collaborations between unlikely pairings of writers are especially encouraged. [for the journal] --please send up to 15 pages hard copy. --or send descriptions, ideas, processes, proposals, possible & impossible imaginings of collaborative projects to be compiled in a "process" section. ---> deadline: january 15, 2001----> [for posters] --please send photographs or prints of text/visual art collaborations. [for books] --please query by letter first before sending a manuscript. (please include contact information or SASE for reply) --> send all work to--> factorial !press Sawako Nakayasu 5869 Dry Oak Drive San Jose, CA 95120 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:54:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** WHAT IS AFGHANISTAN?: Monday Nov 5, 7:30 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable P O E T R Y C E N T E R 2 0 0 1 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents WHAT IS AFGHANISTAN?: A READING & OPEN DISCUSSION =46eaturing Tamim ANSARY, Shadi SADAT, Jennifer HEATH Monday, November 5 7:30 pm, free @ The Unitarian Center 1187 Franklin (& Geary) San Francisco The Poetry Center will sponsor a reading and open discussion on Afghanistan, to take place on Monday, November 5th (we are moving with haste as one of the participants will only be in the Bay Area from Nov 1-5). This event will put a human face on Afghanistan, and will focus on the presence and multiple perspectives of two writers from that country, alongside an American writer intimate with Afghan history, politics, and perspectives. Writers are too often ignored as commentators during political upheaval in the U.S., or else limited to functions considered appropriate (e.g., the poet's role since 9/11 has been figured largely as providing consolation for loss). This event will allow writers with a working knowledge of Afghanistan and its people to present their literary work and to comment on and provide personal testimony regarding recent events. WHAT IS AFGHANISTAN?--a question in homage to poet and activist Walter Lowenfels' historic question Where is Vietnam?--will offer a greatly needed opportunity for Californians to become aware of educated perspectives that reach beyond those of political commentators who pursue issues of policy while ostensibly providing information. This event will broaden public understanding and directly address prevailing public ignorance of Afghanistan and Afghan peoples, recent history, and cultures. The evening may also include live introductory music by a locally-based Afghan rabab master. Confirmed participants: TAMIM ANSARY: Afghan American writer whose article "An Afghan American Speaks" was broadcast widely over the internet (Craig's list, Salon.com, et al) in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, leading to Mr. Ansary's appearance on national television (e.g., with Bill Moyers) and radio. He has been in the US for 35 years, writing for non-profits in the SF Bay Area, and is the author of many nonfiction books for children, focused on Native Americans, science, and other subjects. He writes a column for online encyclopedia site Encarta.. Mr. Ansary's autobiographical memoir will be published in Spring 2002, and he is presently completing a novel set in Afghanistan. SHAHI SADAT: Afghan poet, currently a student of International Relations at San Francisco State University, has lived in the U.S. as a political refugee since 1995. Born in Jalalabad, Afghanistan in 1972, he has written several books of poetry, short stories, and aphorisms in different languages--English, German, Hindi-Urdu, Farsi, and Pashtu (Afghani), including Tears of the Heart and From the Breath of Life to the Sigh of Death, 2000 (Afghan Cultural Society, Alameda, CA). In 1998 he received the honor of being named Afghanistan's National Poet and Poet of the Year by the Afghan Cultural Organizations in Exile. In 1999 his scholarly research at Kabul University, conducted with well-known Afghan anthropologist, poet, and writer Addul Shakoor Rishad, was prevented publication by the Taliban. His family lives in exile in Peshawar, Pakistan. JENNIFER HEATH: novelist, teacher and activist, author of an historical novel about Afghanistan, A House White With Sorrow: Ballad for Afghanistan, 1995 ("a heartrending, heartwarming, very human novel in which a young American woman's life becomes inextricably entwined with the lives and politics of Afghanistan" --Lucy Lippard, art critic & novelist). Ms. Heath lived in Afghanistan for many years, and is involved in various Afghan and anti-Taliban organizations. Her next book is forthcoming from Paulist Press: The Scimitar and the Veil: Extraordinary Women of Islam. She lives in Boulder, CO. STEVE DICKISON, Moderator. Executive director of The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives, and lecturer at SFSU. A poet, editor, and writer, he is at work on The Unfolded Fold, an edition of the U.S.-born Canadian poet Robin Blaser's selected talks on poets and poetry from the 1980s and '90s, as well as an edition of the selected writings of Lebanese American writer Etel Adnan. With David Meltzer, he co-edits and publishes the new publication Shuffle Boil, a magazine of poets and music, a tri-annual featuring writings by poets, musicians, and other artists focused on music. Recent Poetry Center programs under his direction have included presentations of writers from Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Bosnia, Phillipines, and an anthropologist focused on Morocco. =46or further information contact: Steve Dickison, tel 415-338-3401; steved@sfsu.edu This event is free and open to the public; wheelchair accessible. Room capacity is 250. THE UNITARIAN CENTER is located at 1187 Franklin Street at the corner of Geary on-street parking opens up at 7:00 pm from downtown SF, take the Geary bus to Franklin ** PLEASE FORWARD THIS ANNOUNCMENT ** THANK YOU ** =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:06:31 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: trame ouest Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Soir=E9e?= revue =?ISO-8859-1?Q?d=27esth=E9tique?= Webbar 24 Octobre 19 H MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit le 24 octobre 2001 à partir de 19h au Webart Soirée de présentation du numéro 39 de la revue d'esthétique "AUTRES SITES, NOUVEAUX PAYSAGES" Table-ronde & débat Reprise et discussion des thèmes constituant le numéro de la revue et présentation des travaux des artistes sur cédérom par vidéo-projection. Intervenants: Daniel Arasse -Catherine Bedard - Maurice Benayoun - David Boeno - Jean-Louis Boissier -Philippe Boisnard- Anne Cauquelin- Claude Closky - Edmond Couchot- Jérôme Glicenstein - Catherine Nyeki - Liliane Terrier - Hélios Sabaté Beriain et l'équipe du Webart.. 32, rue de Picardie - 75003 Paris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 01:08:42 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: FW: T: Shell Oil Chairman Gives Remarkable Speech]] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrea. Hopefully you're right. The problem is that those who control the means of production are or may be forever reluctant to "let go"...then things do and have change(d) as we have changed from fuedalism to more democratic forms and in time the whole world may progress: to be sanguine it will take a combination of "working on our heads - all of us" - and technology and science and the arts and poetry and language used for and by the people: a true revolution with more people being more involved and many more levels of power. That's the hopeful perspective: obviously for war and "terrorism" so on to continue as it seems to have done is nihilistic. What are the causes and what are the solutions? But for now I'll be positive about this Shell bloke. Hope from the Shell bloke. Regards, Richard.----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrea Baker" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 4:10 PM Subject: FW: T: Shell Oil Chairman Gives Remarkable Speech]] > Though quite difficult to trust this seemed important as a glimmer of hope. > > Andrea > ---- > > > THE DAY THE WORLD CAME TO ITS SENSES? > By Bill Moore > Last in four part series of editorials on September 11th tragedy > EVWorld > October 07,2001 > > http://evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=245 > > This week, Phil Watts, the chairman of Royal Dutch Shell, gave a remarkable > speech in New York, just three weeks after the tragedy of September 11th. > > Accustomed to making and approving business decisions and technology plans > that extend decades into the future, Watts told an audience assembled under > the auspices of the United Nations Development Program, that Shell, one of > the largest oil companies in the world, was preparing for the "End of the > Hydrocarbon Age." > > He painted two possible scenarios he termed, "Dynamics as Usual" and "The > Spirit of the Coming Age." > > Under the first scenario, Shell envisions an "evolutionary" carbon shift > from coal to natural gas to renewables. Petroleum's current 40 percent > global energy share will drop to 25 percent by 2050. Natural gas market > share will climb to 20 percent while the remainder will come from a > combination of nuclear and various renewable sources. > > Under "The Spirit of the Coming Age" scenario, the world would experience a > far more dramatic shift from carbon-intensive fuels to hydrogen. Watt's > stated this second scenario, "explores something rather more revolutionary, > the potential for a truly hydrogen economy, growing out of new and exciting > developments in fuel cells, advanced hydrocarbon technologies and carbon > dioxide sequestration." > > Watts envisioned fuel cells beginning to reach serious market penetration by > 2025 and as a result dramatically altering the energy landscape long before > oil becomes scarce. > > Watts isn't just talking the talk. He has pledged to walk the walk by > committing between $500 million and $1 billion over the next five years to > develop new energy businesses, concentrating primarily on solar and wind > energy. > > Watts concluded his remarks by saying that oil companies can no longer > assume they will dominate the next 100 years as they have the previous > century. "That would be a very complacent view." > > Phil Watt's comments in New York this week are truly remarkable in the light > of the events on and after September 11, 2001. Here is a major oil company > executive publicly stating that the world is changing and his company plans > to lead in this transition. He pointed out that not only does he intend to > make Shell "a prime mover in this transitional period" but he also noted > that "one in five of the world's population does not have access to > commercial energy. It is our goal to contribute to the development of an > affordable, sustainable energy system which will help reduce this sort of > inequality." > > It is encouraging to hear someone of Watt's stature and influence > recognizing the need to address global inequalities like this, for these are > the true causes of social unrest that can ultimately lead to the use of the > weapon of terrorism. Phil Watts recognizes the world is changing and the > events of last month only underscore that reality. The real question is how > will it change? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 02:08:30 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: poem Corection and request for Scott Hamilton to comment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Millie? Scott Etal. My grammar was a bit suspect here: I meant: "There is no writing (apart from the scrawling of a monkey and is that writing?) that has no semantic content, and that even so-called nonsense was or could be, meaningfull in ways other than strictly "logical" ways." Scot, maybe you could comment at this point? Elucidate, so to speak!? Thanks for your support of my poems. I'll send that one which begins: "In the rumours of the lost rooms" certainly not a Langpo type poem but it began with those lines "coming to me" I think as I began to fall asleep...from a dream as it were. Whoever sent the poem below: at least its a change from the "political" and S11 argie bargey.....before S11 I was going to do a kind of "Zen" thing a la John G and maybe Richard von S and chill out from the whole scene man!! Regards, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 12:31 AM Subject: Re: poem > No writing makes no sense at all: if it is written by a "Langpo) then by > his/her very act of composing in a particular way, meaning is generated. I > see it as writing moving between very strict and grammatically and > syntactically "correct" posems to poems more or less dislocated.... a > parallel would be with the concept of entropy: in telecommunication theory > the gretest amount of information is conveyed in direct proportion as there > is greater entropy (disorder)...but obviously something that is absolutely > so orderd (low entropy) that we can virtually predict what it says before > its said is hence "meaningless", so of course is white noise (a > theoretically completely random system).... > An example is a Steve McCaffery poem which is "exploded" all over the > page. But in the context of what McCaffery is doing or "saying" even that is > meaning ful (if not "grammatical" and certainly useless for communicating > outside of the medium he is was using)....But that's my penny worth: Charles > Bernstein and guys like that have a greater knowledge of these things...I > think what you maybe striving for is similar to the concept of Mallarme who > wanted poetry to approximate to the condition of music...I think Laura > Riding had some ideas on this as well. > An interesting "example" is in Ashbery's "House Boat Days" (The Nut Brown > Maid which was written by his using fragments from older poems)...but he > maintains the "grammatical flow so to speak"....A fascinating poem is > "Polaroid" by Clark Coolidge in which he uses..read it - I cant explain it - > its fascinating: also a strange and fascinating book is "After Images " by > Joan Retallack. I like it: but for me its the kind of challenging thing > which I admire but cant understand! (Like Finnegan's Wake which I admire but > have never read!).That may not matter: the thing is that one is comforted so > to speak that Retallack knew why and what she was writing which I cant > always claim...! > But there are many others, as I have no doubt others on this List will have > a greater awareness than I. MacLow is an intriguing guy who was a good > friend of John Cage of course...Oh, and another writer a bit in your ilk is > Tom Raworth........Trakl the German poet or something quite different is > interesting: ask Scott Hamilton; he's read every thing (!) > Your poem is fascinating. Send more. I like it: has an element of > humour and also torques the language so that it "talks" as should all good > and intriguing poetry. Regards, Richard. PS it reminded me of an interview > over here with a big strong young All Black (rugby player) who was (almost > coquettishly) "not big on spiders"! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Millie Niss" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 5:06 PM > Subject: poem > > > > I wanted to make a poem which makes no sense at all, even to the extent of > > violating the rules of syntax & grammar (it is easy to make nonsense poems > > where you write "normal" sentyences with funny nouns where the nouns > belong, > > funny verbs where the verbs belong, etc., but I wanted to bend langugae > > maore than that...) As I reread, I realize that I was mostly unsuccessful > > in wroting true nonsense in the sense. Can anyone give examples of poems > > that break away from grammar (a lot of LANGUAGE poetry does this. I'm > > thinking of Jackson Mac Low's twenties series which used nouns and verbs > > with no apparent sentence structure. > > > > > > Chitchat at the Chancellor's Tea > > > > seventeen tarantulas > > however? > > > > Bicentennial bash > > borders > > heretofore > > squeamishly, > > Wouldn't you? > > > > hereditary green > > part-time arachnophobia > > visits Sweden > > chortling slowly > > yesterday > > > > "I can kangaroo, too" > > slowly quoth he > > charmingly, > > "in arpeggios." > > > > logging circumscribed > > chartreuse philosophically > > in absentia > > summarily squats > > > > have another ghost > > minces Marcella > > although clam etiquette bursts, > > > > I intuit instead potatoes, > > purchase impressarios on the dole, > > of course convincingly > > underhanded among > > byzantine grapes > > > > blue leave-taking > > with supposedly > > cement > > > > Wunderbar! > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 05:57:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r..'it's the cold war all over again'... Thot by the thinkless...No sir..... 'member it was the great critical thinker Ronald Reagan who figured out that millions of poles, czechs, rumanians, hungarians, lats, russians etc etc...a thot that could not be thunk by countless thinking about themselves academics.. The call for new thot by the left...is a call for the same thot that they keep thinkin no matter what reality interferes with it... Tenure ahoy...50 yrs of looking up the closest coeds skirt..is thot 'nuf.. Think thot thunk alot...we'd still be losing the 'cold war' with this non-thot....Hey Dr Sd...any thots that aint 'bout yrself.. doubts it......one size fits all or running the marathon on two left feets.........Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:15:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: housepress/derek beaulieu Subject: new from housepress: "Upton's How do they perform that? Poetry as choreography" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit housepress is pleased to announce the release of HOW DO THEY PERFORM THAT? POETRY AS CHOREOGRAPHY an essay on the performance of visual poetry by Lawrence Upton Lawrence Upton's include Meadows (linear poetry) Writers Forum, 2000; Game on a Line (visual poems and an essay) PaperBrain Press, USA 2000; huming / queuing (verse set as prose) Writers Forum, 1999; and Sta! (visual poetry) housepress,1999. He collaborated with Bob Cobbing to make the 300 pamphlet Domestic Ambient Noise, Writers Forum 1994-2000. Cobbing and Upton have also recently made plouk and flong, also from Writers Forum. Upton edits Spad magazine and co-edited, with Bob Cobbing, Word Score Utterance Choreography in verbal and visual poetry, Writers Forum, 1998. He has chaired Sub Voicive Poetry since 1994. published in an edition of 50 handbound and numbered copies $5.00 ea. to order copies, or for more information contact derek beaulieu at housepress@home.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:36:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: involvement/action In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed sweet, but seems patronizing. Gene At 11:34 AM 10/20/01 -0400, you wrote: > I would like to offer support for Karen's efforts in assembling > Buffalo >poets to help support and comfort all involved. It seems that the >performance is a very different animal than the act of reading. To perform a >poem one brings certain qualities to the poem similar to that of an actor >taking on a part. Where reading is the realm of the reader. In a group >activity, such as the Red Cross reading Karen brought together, >sentimentality has a rightful place. It was at Rust belt books where the >avant garde mixed well with house wife poems - but all were pure -- in >Pound's notion of "only emotion endures". Even the old beatniks still >kicking around in dirty hair and faded blue jeans brought a level of feeling >beyond their usual sullen attitudes. The audience understood in ways >differently than if it was only a reading of one style of poem. Politics are >of people and when people gather, being moved by poetry, politics becomes >poetry. > > Best, Geoffrey > >Geoffrey Gatza >editor BlazeVOX2k1 >http://vorplesword.com/ > __o > _`\<,_ > (*)/ (*) > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Karen Lewis >Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:51 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: involvement/action > >H, >Thanks for your question. Last night at a reading here in Buffalo a local >poet , Judy Einach, announced to the assembled her candidacy as a write in >for Mayor of Buffalo. Her e-mail is jeinach@yahoo.com if you'd like to talk >to her about your wry but sometimes serious interest. She has a Masters >Degree from Harvard and considers herself practiced in community problem >solving. > As far as preaching to the converted, I believe that poetry does >provide >an important level of support. It helps to keep those same converted >refreshed and syched. If, in gathering together as poets or as an audience >these same people feel buoyed to continue their efforts at effecting timely >political change then poetry has had a positive effect. I believe it is >possible that a point of poetic view can impact a reader and create change >in >thought. > Karen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:48:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the end of it MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (these nested recursions fascinate me; this is about the maximum i could pull out - it's still decipherable, but barely. the langue turns languor- ous, the words expand and breathe, the textual body writhes, turns away from reading, almost in shame, detumescence) (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(o(aye))((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))nn) (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(o(aye))((dee)(o(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye))) (be(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))(e(aye)e(aye)) ((dee)(o(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(be(aye)) ((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))(e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(e(aye)e(ay e)))(aye)((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))(dee)((e(aye)e(aye))ss) ((e(aye)e(aye))ss)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(be(aye)) (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(e(aye)e(aye))((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye))) ((e(aye)e(aye))ph)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(g(e(aye)e(aye)) (e(aye)e(aye)))(e(aye)e(aye)) ((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))(t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye)) (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(e(aye)e(aye)) ((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))ss) ((aye)it(se(aye))h)((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))(dee)(e(aye)e(aye)) (aye)((e(aye)e(aye))nn)(dee) ((e(aye)e(aye))ss)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))l) ((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))nn) ((e(aye)e(aye))nn)(e(aye)e(aye))v(e(aye)e(aye))((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye))) (aye)(be(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))(dee)(e(aye)e(aye)) (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(o(aye))((dee)(o(aye)) ((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(be(aye)) ((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))(e(aye)e(aye))((dee)(o(aye)) ((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(be(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye)) (e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(e(aye)e(ay e)))(aye)((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))(dee)((e(aye)e(aye))ss) (dee)((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))ss) ((e(aye)e(aye))ss)(e(aye)e(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))mm) ((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))nn)(aye) (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))(o(aye)) ((e(aye)e(aye))nn) (aye)((e(aye)e(aye))nn)(dee) (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))((aye)it(se(aye))h)(e(aye)e(aye)) (p(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye)) (aye)((e(aye)e(aye))ss)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye))) ((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))(e(aye)e(aye)) (o(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))ph) ((e(aye)e(aye))mm)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye)) (e(aye)e(aye)) (p(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(o(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))l)((e(aye)e(aye))l) (e(aye)e(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))nn) _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:05:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Loudmouth Collective at Tonic In-Reply-To: <3BD4D64E.F94202C8@rcn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Hi all, > >Please join the Loudmouth Collective at Tonic on >Thursday, October 25, as we present: Can't make it. I will be attending Louis Cabri's talk at the Kootenay School of Writing. -- George Bowering Your companion in the written arts. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:03:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Italian Futurism and war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps I am a heretic on the list serve but I do not oppose the violent response that we are making to the events of Sept 11. It is possible to find moral or ethical problems with many wars since WWII but I think that this response is justified. Just as our fight against Germany and Japan was justified. How else should we respond? These people attacked and killed 6000 people. Do I want innocent people killed? Of course not but someone needs to tell me what we should do? I was in the village the other day and there was this protest against "war"but what is the right response to being attacked? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: UN anti-war petition > > > > > > As a result of the day of terror on Tuesday September 11 and that left > > > the Twin Towers of New York and the Pentagon of Washington D.C. > > > destroyed the United States may be about to declare war. The New York > > > Times stated that, because the attack it is not only against the U.S.A. > > > but against all of civilization, ".. It is necessary to identify to the > > > countries that support the terrorist movements because it is there that > > > the true war will be directed." > > > > > > The chief of the Arab newspaper Al-Quds, with headquarters in London, > > > said that the Islamic terrorist Ussama Bin Laden had had noted three > > > weeks ago that it planned to carry out "an important" attack against > > > American interests. > > > > > > Karen Huges, who advises President Bush, assured us at a press > > > conference that the country has the means to guarantee national > > > security. What the U.S.A may feel compelled to do may result in very > > > lamentable reprisals against the Islamic world. > > > > > > However, the state of Alert that United States maintains, is not without > > > good reason. The American people are very indignant and are requesting > > > justice somehow... and a reprisal for their dead siblings. > > > > > > Today we are in a point in imbalance in the world and are moving toward > > > what may be the beginning of a THIRD WORLD WAR. > > > > > > If your are against this possibility, the UN is gathering signatures to > > > avoid this tragic world event. Please COPY this e-mail in a new message, > > > sign at the end of the list, and send it to all the people that you know. > > > > > > If you receive this list with more than 500 names signed, please send a > > > copy of the message to : > > > > > > unicwash@unicwash.org > > > > > > > > 000001&a=c2 > > > > > > 2efadf5ca80b31c2414e90f2fa29dc&mailto=1&to=unicwash@unicwash.org& > > > msg=MSG1002 > > > > > > Even if you decide not to sign, please consider forwarding the petition > > > on instead of eliminating > > > > > > > > > 2) Laurence COMPARAT, Grenoble,France > > > > > > 3) Philippe MOTTE, Grenoble, France > > > > > > 4) Jok FERRAND, Mont St Martin, France > > > > > > 5) Emmanuelle PIGNOL, St Martin d'Heres,FRANCE > > > > > > 6) Marie GAUTHIER, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > 7) Laurent VESCALO, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > 8) Mathieu MOY, St Egreve, FRANCE > > > > > > 9) Bernard BLANCHET, Mont St Martin,FRANCE > > > > > > 10) Tassadite FAVRIE, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > 11) Loic GODARD, St Ismier, FRANCE > > > > > > 12) Benedicte PASCAL, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > 13) Khedaidja BENATIA, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > 14) Marie-Therese LLORET, Grenoble,FRANCE > > > > > > 15) Benoit THEAU, Poitiers, FRANCE > > > > > > 16) Bruno CONSTANTIN, Poitiers, FRANCE > > > > > > 17) Christian COGNARD, Poitiers, FRANCE > > > > > > 18) Robert GARDETTE, Paris, FRANCE > > > > > > 19) Claude CHEVILLARD, Montpellier, FRANCE > > > > > > 20) gilles FREISS, Montpellier, FRANCE > > > > > > 21) Patrick AUGEREAU, Montpellier, FRANCE. > > > > > > 22) Jean IMBERT, Marseille, FRANCE > > > > > > 23) Jean-Claude MURAT, Toulouse, France > > > > > > 24) Anna BASSOLS, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > 25) Mireia DUNACH, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > 26) Michel VILLAZ, Grenoble, France > > > > > > 27) Pages Frederique, Dijon, France > > > > > > 28) Rodolphe FISCHMEISTER,Chatenay-Malabry, France > > > > > > 29) Francois BOUTEAU, Paris, France > > > > > > 30) Patrick PETER, Paris, France > > > > > > 31) Lorenza RADICI, Paris, France > > > > > > 32) Monika Siegenthaler, Bern, Switzerland > > > > > > 33) Mark Philp, Glasgow, Scotland > > > > > > 34) Tomas Andersson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 35) Jonas Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 36) Karin Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 37) Ake Ljung, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 38) Carina Sedlmayer, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 39) Rebecca Uddman, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 40) Lena Skog, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 41) Micael Folke, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 42) Britt-Marie Folke, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 43) Birgitta Schuberth, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 44) Lena Dahl, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 45) Ebba Karlsson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 46) Jessica Carlsson, Vaxjo, Sweden > > > > > > 47) Sara Blomquist, Vaxjo, Sweden > > > > > > 48) Magdalena Fosseus, Vaxjo, Sweden > > > > > > 49) Charlotta Langner, Goteborg, Sweden > > > > > > 50) Andrea Egedal, Goteborg, Sweden > > > > > > 51) Lena Persson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 52) Magnus Linder, Umea ,Sweden > > > > > > 53) Petra Olofsson, Umea, Sweden > > > > > > 54) Caroline Evenbom, Vaxj > > > > > > sica Bjork, Grimsas, Sweden > > > > > > 57) Linda Ahlbom Goteborg, Sweden > > > > > > 58) Jenny Forsman, Boras, Sweden > > > > > > 59) Nina Gunnarson, Kinna, Sweden > > > > > > 60) Andrew Harrison, New Zealand > > > > > > 61) Bryre Murphy, New Zealand > > > > > > 62) Claire Lugton, New Zealand > > > > > > 63) Sarah Thornton, New Zealand > > > > > > 64) Rachel Eade, New Zealand > > > > > > 65) Magnus Hjert, London, UK > > > > > > 67) Madeleine Stamvik, Hurley, UK > > > > > > 68) Susanne Nowlan, Vermont, USA > > > > > > 69) Lotta Svenby, Malmoe, Sweden > > > > > > 70) Adina Giselsson, Malmoe, Sweden > > > > > > 71) Anders Kullman, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 72) Rebecka Swane, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 73) Jens Venge, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 74) Catharina Ekdahl, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 75) Nina Fylkegard, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 76) Therese Stedman, Malmoe, Sweden > > > > > > 77) Jannica Lund, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 78) Douglas Bratt=20 > > > > > > 79) Mats Lofstrom, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 80) Li Lindstrom, Sweden > > > > > > 81) Ursula Mueller, Sweden > > > > > > 82) Marianne Komstadius, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 83) Peter Thyselius, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > 84) Gonzalo Oviedo, Quito, Ecuador > > > > > > 85) Amalia Romeo, Gland, Switzerland > > > > > > 86) Margarita Restrepo, Gland, Switzerland > > > > > > 87) Eliane Ruster, Crans p.C., Switzerland > > > > > > 88) Jennifer Bischoff-Elder, Hong Kong > > > > > > 89) Azita Lashgari, Beirut, Lebanon > > > > > > 90) Khashayar Ostovany, New York, USA > > > > > > 91) Lisa L Miller, Reno NV > > > > > > 92) Danielle Avazian, Los Angeles, CA > > > > > > 93) Sara Risher,Los Angeles,Ca. > > > > > > 94) Melanie London, New York, NY > > > > > > 95) Susan Brownstein , Los Angeles, CA > > > > > > 96) Steven Raspa, San Francisco, CA > > > > > > 97) Margot Duane, Ross, CA > > > > > > 98) Natasha Darnall, Los Angeles, CA > > > > > > 100) James Kjelland, Evanston, IL > > > > > > 101) Michael Jampole, Beach Park, IL, USA > > > > > > 102) Diane Willis, Wilmette, IL, USA > > > > > > 103) Sharri Russell, Roanoke, VA, USA > > > > > > 104) Faye Cooley, Roanoke, VA, USA > > > > > > 105) Celeste Thompson, Round Rock, TX, USA > > > > > > 106) Sherry Stang, Pflugerville, TX, USA > > > > > > 107) Amy J. Singer, Pflugerville, TX USA > > > > > > 108) Milissa Bowen, Austin, TX USA > > > > > > 109) Michelle Jozwiak, Brenham, TX USA > > > > > > 110) Mary Orsted, College Station, TX USA > > > > > > 111) Janet Gardner, Dallas, TX USA > > > > > > 112) Marilyn Hollingsworth, Dallas, TX USA > > > > > > 113) Nancy Shamblin, Garland. TX USA > > > > > > 114) K. M. > > > > > > man, Houston, Texas - USA > > > > > > 116) Laurie Sobolewski, Warren, MI > > > > > > 117) Kellie Sisson Snider, Irving Texas > > > > > > 118) Carol Currie, Garland, Garland Texas > > > > > > 119) John Snyder, Garland, TX USA > > > > > > 120) Elaine Hannan, South Africa > > > > > > 121) Jayne Howes, South Africa > > > > > > 122) Diane Barnes, Akron, Ohio > > > > > > 123) Melanie Dass Moodley, Durban, SouthAfrica > > > > > > 124) Imma Merino, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > 125) Toni Vinas, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > 126) Marc Alfaro, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > 127) Manel Saperas, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > 128) Jordi Ribas Izquierdo, Catalonia > > > > > > 129) Naiana Lacorte Rodes, Catalonia > > > > > > 130) Joan Vitoria i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 131) Jordi Paris i Romia, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 132) Marta Truno i Salvado, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 133) Jordi Lagares Roset, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 134) Josep Puig Vidal, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 135) Marta Juanola i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 136) Manel de la Fuente i Colino,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 137) Gemma Belluda i Ventura, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 138) Victor Belluda i Ventur, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 139) MaAntonia Balletbo, barcelona, Spain > > > > > > 140) Mireia Masdevall Llorens, Barcelona,Spain > > > > > > 141) Clara Planas, Barcelona, Spain > > > > > > 142) Fernando Labastida Gual, Barcelona,Spain > > > > > > 143) Cristina Vacarisas, Barcelona, Spain > > > > > > 144) Enric Llarch i Poyo, Barcelona,CATALONIA > > > > > > 145) Rosa Escoriza Valencia, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 146) Silvia Jimenez, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > 147) Maria Clarella, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 > > > > > > 148) Angels Guimera, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 > > > > > > 149) M.Carmen Ruiz Fernandez,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 150) Rufi Cerdan Heredia,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 151) M. Teresa Vilajeliu Roig,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > 152) Rafel LLussa, Girona,Catalonia,Spain=20 > > > > > > 153) Mariangels Gallego Ribo,Gelida,Catalonia=20 > > > > > > 154) Jordi Cortadella, Gelida,Catalonia=20 > > > > > > 155) Pere Botella, Barcelona,Catalonia(Spain)=20 > > > > > > 156) Josefina Auladell Baulenas,Catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > > > 157) Empar Escoin Carceller,Catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > > > 158) Elisa Pla Soler, Catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > > > 159) Paz Morillo Bosch, catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > > > 160) Cristina Bosch Moreno, Madrid(Spain)=20 > > > > > > 161) Marta Puertola > > > > > > n > > > > > > 163) Joaquin Rivera (Madrid) Spain > > > > > > 164) Carmen Barral (Madrid) Spain > > > > > > 165) Carmen del Pino (Madrid) Spain > > > > > > 166) Asuncion del Pino (Madrid) Spain > > > > > > 167) Asuncion Cuesta (Madrid) Spain) > > > > > > 168) Ana Polo Mediavilla (Burgos)Spain=20 > > > > > > 169) Mercedes Romero Laredo(Burgos)Espana=20 > > > > > > 170) Oliva Mertinez Fernandez(Burgos)Espana=20 > > > > > > 171) Silvia Leal Aparicio (Burgos)Espana=20 > > > > > > 172) Claudia Elizabeth > > > > > > 173) Federico G. Pietrokovsky(C.F.)Argentina=20 > > > > > > 174) Naschel Prina (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 > > > > > > 175) Daniela Gozzi (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 > > > > > > 176) Paula Elisa Kvedaras(CapitalFederal)Argentina > > > > > > 177) Antonio Izquierdo (Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > 178) Ana Belen Perez SolsonaValencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > 179) Paula Folques Diago (Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > 180) Nestor Alis Pozo (Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > 181) Rafael Alis Pozo (valencia) Spain > > > > > > 182) Isabel Maria Martinez(Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > 183) Cristina Bernad Guerrero(Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > 184) Iria Barcia Sanchez184) Elena Barrios Barcia. > > > Uppsala.Suecia=20 > > > > > > 185) Illana Ortiz Martin.Munchen.Alemania=20 > > > > > > 186) Santiago Rodriguez Rasero.M=FCnchen.Alemania=20 > > > > > > 187) David Ag=F3s D=EDaz. Pamplona. Espa=F1a > > > > > > 188) Juan Luis Ibarretxe. Galdakao.E.H.=20 > > > > > > 189) Rub=E9n D=EDez Ealo. Galdakao. E.H. > > > > > > 190) Marcial Rodr=EDguez Garc=EDa. Ermua. > > > > > > 191) Imanol Echave Calvo. SanSebastian.Spain.=20 > > > > > > 192) Bego=F1a OrtizdeZ=E1rateLazcano.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Spain > > > > > > 193) David S=E1nchezAgirregomezkorta.Gasteiz.Euskadi. > > > > > > 194)Alberto Ruiz DeAlda.Gasteiz.Euzkadi > > > > > > 195) Juan Carlos GarciaObregon.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Espa=F1a > > > > > > 196) Jon Aiarza Lotina.Santander.Spain=20 > > > > > > 197)teresa del Hoyo Rojo. Santander. > > > > > > 198) Celia NespralGaztelumendi.Santander. Espa=F1a > > > > > > 199) Pedro Mart=EDn Villamor,Valladolid.Espa=F1a.=20 > > > > > > 200) Victoria Arratia Mart=EDn,Valladolid,Espa=F1a=20 > > > > > > 201) Javi Tajadura Mart=EDn,Portugalete,Euskadi.Spain > > > > > > 202)Lourdes Palacios Martin, Bilbao,Spain=20 > > > > > > 203) Jes=FAs Avila de Grado, Madrid,Espa=F1a=20 > > > > > > 204) Eva Mar=EDa Cano L=F3pez. Madrid.Spain=20 > > > > > > 205) Emilio Ruiz Olivar, Londres, UK > > > > > > 206) Maru Ortega Garc=EDa delMoral,CALAHORRA,ESPA=D > > > > > > > > > > > > 207) Juan Carlos Ayala Calvo, Logro=F1o,Spain=20 > > > > > > 208) Roc=EDo Mu=F1oz Pino, Logro=F1o, Espa=F1a > > > > > > 209) Ximena Pino Burgos, Santiago,Chile=20 > > > > > > 210) Roberto Saldivia Quezada, Santiago,Chile > > > > > > 211) Paola Gonzalez Valderrama, Santiago,Chile > > > > > > 212) Cesar Morales Pe=F1a y Lillo, Santiago > > > > > > 213) Denisse Labarca Abdala , Santiago,Chile > > > > > > 214) Mar=EDa Paz Gonz=E1lez Garay > > > > > > 215) Daniela Millar Kaiser, Santiago,Chile > > > > > > 216) Alvaro Wigand Perales, Valdivia,Chile > > > > > > 217) Gladys Bustos Carrasco, Quilicura,Chile > > > > > > 218) Patricio Criado Rivera, Quilicura,Chile > > > > > > 219) Carolina Aguilar Monsalve, Valdivia,Chile > > > > > > 220) Carmen Silva Utrilla, Madrid, Espa=F1a > > > > > > 221) Martha Yolanda Rodriguez Aviles,Queretaro,Mexico > > > > > > 222) LAURA RODRIGUEZAVILES,COZUMEL,QUINTANAROO,MEXICO=20 > > > > > > 223)KATIA HAHN , MERIDA, YUCAT=C1N > > > > > > 224) [Sofia Gallego] Mexicali, B.C. Mexico > > > > > > 225)BEATRIZ CASTA=D1EDA DE CLARIOND,Monterrey,M=E9xico > > > > > > 227) Roc=EDo S=E1nchez Losada, M=E9xico D.F. > > > > > > 228) Lorenza Estand=EDa Gonz=E1lez Luna, M=E9xico D.F. > > > > > > 229) Gabriel Gallardo D'Aiuto,M=E9xico D.F. > > > > > > 230) Jos=E8 Antonio Salinas, Monterrey, N.L., Mex. > > > > > > 231) Laura Cantu, Mty N.L., Mex > > > > > > 232) Jossie Garcia, Mty N.L Mex > > > > > > 233) Martha V=E1zquez Gonz=E1lez, Mty, N.L.; M=E9x. > > > > > > 234) Olga Moreno, Monterrey, NL, Mex > > > > > > 235) Mariana Camargo, Pto. Vallarta, Jal; Mex. > > > > > > 236) Alfonso Villa, Toluca, Mexico > > > > > > 237) Arturo Rodriguez Reyes, Toluca, Edo Mexico,MEXICO=20 > > > > > > 238) Fernanda Villela, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO > > > > > > 239) Pilar Jim=E9nez, Caracas, VENEZUELA > > > > > > 240) Erika Rovelo, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO > > > > > > 241) ALEJANDRO LECANDA, CIUDAD DE MEXICO, MEXICO > > > > > > 242) Gabriela Diaz de Sandi, Cd. Mexico, Mexico > > > > > > 243) Jorge Bustamante Orgaz, Ciudad de M=E9xico,M=E9xico. > > > > > > 244) Jos=E9 Bernardo Rodr=EDguez Montes, CiudaddeMExico,MExico=20 > > > > > > 245) Luisa Angela Ari=F1o Pel=E1ez. Ciudad deM=E9xico,MExico. > > > > > > 246) Ramses Ricardo Rios Zaragoza, CD de M=E9xico > > > > > > 247) Rosa Mar=EDa Lamparero. Ciudad de M=E9xico. > > > > > > 248) Margarita Palomares . Ciudad de M=E9xico. MEXICO > > > > > > 249) Carlos Anaya. MEXICO > > > > > > 250) Enrique Garc=EDa Menes > > > > > > 251) Loren Walker. United States > > > > > > a > > > > > > 252) Natalie Lutz - La Ville Du Bois, France > > > > > > 253) Melissa Iwai - United States > > > > > > 254) Yukako Sunaoshi, Auckland, New Zealand > > > > > > 255) Michael Neill, Auckland, New Zealand > > > > > > 256) Anna Wirz-Justice, Basel, Switzerland > > > > > > 257) Irving Zucker, Berkeley, USA > > > > > > 258) keith oatley, toronto, canada > > > > > > 259) bernard schiff, toronto, canada > > > > > > 260) David Rothberg, Toronto, Canada > > > > > > 261) harald ohlendorf, toronto, canada > > > > > > 262) Anna Johnson, USA > > > > > > 263) Rachel Johnson, USA > > > > > > 264) Wendy Adams, USA > > > > > > 265) Linda Brunner , USA > > > > > > 266) Agustina Gallegos, Hollister, USA > > > > > > 267) Jemila Dwyer, Seattle, USA > > > > > > 268) Karen Kuest, Seattle, USA > > > > > > 269) Jean Sack, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 270) Shamima Moin, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 271) Anand, Chennai, India > > > > > > 272) Enam Ul Hoque, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia > > > > > > 273) Musharraf H. Khan, United Arab Emirates > > > > > > 274) Zahid Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 275) Rahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 276) Zahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 277) Dina Mustary, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 278) Shaonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 279) Hemonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 280) Asif Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 281) Suman SMA Islam, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > 282) Meena Poudel, Nepal > > > > > > 283) Jyoti Sanghera, India > > > > > > 284) Ratna Kapur, India > > > > > > 285)Roshni Basu, India > > > > > > 286)Maitreya,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 > > > > > > 287)Dr Jayasree,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 > > > > > > 288) Deepa Nair, Trivandrum, India > > > > > > 299) Tapas Desrousseaux, Auroville, India > > > > > > 300) Mita Radhakrishnan, Auroville, India > > > > > > 301) Gayatri Taneja, Hyderabad, India > > > > > > 302) Lucia Volk, Cambridge, USA > > > 303) Tom Conry, Portland OR, USA > > > 304) Ann Conry, Portland OR, USA > > > > > > 305) Mike Jung, Seattle WA, USA > > > 306) Marie Milsten Fiedler, MN, USA > 307) Maria Damon, MN, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:07:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: poetic news In-Reply-To: <003d01c15bf8$a205f140$2e442718@ruthfd1.tn.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I've heard from an international source that possibly the media in >th US are somewhat selctive in the information they highlight Oh my God! Really? I suspected something like that when I read a US history of the War of 1812, but I did not credit my hunch. -- George Bowering Your companion in the written arts. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:54:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: Report from Liberty Street MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles: I like this poem/reflection but I really think the poem in this whole September 11th thing is what has happened to the people like those kitchen workers in the WTC. I went to a funeral for a person not related to this incident and on the altar there were 13 candles for people from the parish who died in the WTC. Most of the people who died lived in places like Queens, and New Jersey. They were the New Yorkers who have the real accent and live the hard life in the city. It is funny because one of my uncles was in the WTC and he is a real waspized Italian you know the type who went to classes to lose his accent NYU mba etc. Yet, afterwords all he could talk about was how the cleaning people did not get out. Charles I sent your reflection on to some friends R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Bernstein" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 2:41 PM Subject: Report from Liberty Street > "Report from Liberty Street" is my account of a recent visit to the > southern tip of Manhattan. The link will take you to the web pages of the > University of Chicago Press. > > http://www.press.uchicago.edu/News/911bernstein.html > > Let me take this opportunity to thank so many of you for your posts to the > Poetics list over the past three weeks. It has been necessary company for > me and I know many others. Also to thank Chris Alexander for service over > and beyond the call and the same thanks again to Tim Shaner. I also want to > say that I appreciated the notes of those who have written me over this > time in repose to my Poetics posts (or just to check in). > > Charles ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:58:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that the vision of Israel has real value. Where they went wrong is when they began to forget where they came from. While I am not a total Zionist I think that the fact that the Jews do a have a safe haven is important. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 5:19 PM Subject: Re: Israel > i for one would be happy to airlift all Jews --and anyone else who'd like > to come along --in Israel to the united states and *then* allow the US to > "abandon Israel." but i don't think they'd all want to come. Israel was > an experiment that does not seem to have worked, but before abandoning it > there must be some situation whereby Jews can live in safety. > > At 2:28 AM +0100 9/29/01, Lawrence Upton wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Kenneth M. Dauber" > >To: > >Sent: 28 September 2001 21:02 > >Subject: Israel > > > > > >| The only thing everybody seems to agree on is that, whatever cause it has > >| been in leading to the attacks of September 11, the United States' policy > >| in relation to Israel needs to be changed. It is hard, however, to > >| understand what, in justice, this means. > > > >No, it's very easy... > > > >for the rest of what you say, I got an uneasy sense of deja vu.I'm sure I > >have read all that before. Many times. Many many times > > > >| and what Arafat rejected > >| by launching his second intifada, without so much as a negotiation for a > >| better deal. > > > >Well, that's the word from Israel. Me, I say maybe. I'd also say that the > >Palestinians could do a lot better than Arafat and what he may or may not do > >does not alter the injustice of their situation. I mean I don't judge > >USAmericans by their Presidents and they get some kind of choice while > >there's no real choice for the Palestinians; and I'd be totally pissed off > >if you judged me on the basis of Tony Blair > > > > We need to be reminded that a Palestinian state alongside of > >| Israel was what all the Arab nations rejected in '48, > > > >& we need to be reminded that the Israeli state had no business being there; > >it was a cuckoo > > > >But Israel is very strong, courtesy in part of USA and to a lesser extent UK > > > >As a result, many but not all, I agree, have conceded the existence of > >Israel, but that's a response to its power not its legitimacy... in addition > >there now could be no justice if those who have been born since the > >establishment of the state of israel were just uprooted > > > >BUT bringing up the resistance post 1948 is not relevant. of course the > >arabs resisted. What would you expect them to do? Now there is a desire for > >a settlement on the basis of the internationally-agreed borders. It doesn't > >look as though Israel wants to settle... I'd raise the internationally > >agreed borders and that 200000 squatters the wrong side of it > > > >| they controlled all of the West Bank and Gaza, where they preferred > >keeping > >| the Palestinians in miserable refugee camps to a genuine Palestinian > >| homeland, > > > >excuse me? They had a genuine homeland. It was full of people who had > >immigrated from all over the world in defiance of the decision of those who > >ruled Palestine until 1948 and later on the basis of race > > > >The American and Australian first peoples have been blamed for their own > >misery which had been visited upon them by invading foreigners > > > >resulting in another war when Israel rejected Nasser's call to > >| "push them to the sea"; and it is what Arafat continues to reject, both > >| overtly and by refusing to reign in the absolutely rejectionist Hizbollah > > > >rein in... I doubt he can; but that has nothing to do with the wrongness of > >the theft of Palestinian land. Nor is it fair to keep quoting only the most > >extreme statements. A few weeks ago we had a report here with the most awful > >frightening things being shouted by Israelis about Arabs - but one doesn't > >assume that represents all their views all the time > > > >What Nasser shouted at time of war needs to be read in that context. > > > >| and Hamas, who, also overtly, say they want no Jews living anywhere from > >| the Jordan to the Mediterranean. > > > >which is not justifiable; but one can see how they came to that state of > >mind > > > >| It's convenient to blame Israel for the state of Arab and Palestinian > >| suffering in the Middle East and to romanticize Arafat as a freedom > >| fighter. > > > >those are two quite separate things and it confuses the issue to mix them up > > > > But even in relation to their own people, Arafat and the > >| Palestinian Authority have behaved like a bunch of thugs an crooks, > >| squirreling away into Swiss bank accounts the millions upon millions of > >| dollars that have poured into them from the United States, as a result of > >| the Oslo accords, and from the Arab oil nations, instead of using them to > >| create a Palestinian economy, and preventing almost any freedom of dissent > >| with repression and murder. > > > >I get that deja vu again. You haven't mentioned Sabra and Shatila... and > >Southern Lebanon... using "the millions upon millions of dollars that have > >poured into [Israel] from the United States" > > > >| Let the PA's praise as martyrs of suicide blowing up of restaurants and > >| discotechs stop; let the PA's state media stop demonizing Israelis as they > >| do in the most conventional anti-Jewish fashion (pictures of Jews with > >long > >| noses and all); > > > >*state media? yes, I think they should declare a state; and a capital > > > > let Arafat start telling his people, in Arabic, that they > >| must accept an independent Israel as a now and forever fact, whether they > >| like it or not; > > > >"Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given > >unto you, as I said unto Moses. > >4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river > >Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the > >going down of the sun, shall be your coast. > >5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy > >life " > > > >One of the most attractive things about US culture is the racial melting pot > >and I am confused by USAmericans who will both see that as positive in their > >own country and yet resist the concept in Palestine with such > >self-destructive passion > > > > > >L > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 04:02:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r.....hoping to see u..... Boredom, envy, vanity, ego, shout, mutter & phlegm will be reading at yr nabe bar...drinky yr self silly....Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:56:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kiwi Subject: Announcement of the 2001 Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize nominees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sun & Moon Press is proud to announce that two of its poetry titles from 2000 have been selected for the short list of THE ACADEMY OF AMERICAN POETS 2001 Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize. The six finalists, chosen from more that 200 entires, are: Your Name Here by John Ashbery (Farrar, Straus and Giroux) Republics of Reality by Charles Bernstein (Sun & Moon Press) Selected Poems by Fanny Howe (University of California Press) Atmosphere Conditions by Ed Roberson (Sun & Moon Press) Plasticville by David Trinidad (Turtle Point Press) The Annotated "Here" and Selected Poems by Marjorie Welish (Coffee House = Press) The winner of the prize will be announced in November. The judges for = this year's contest are Ann Lauterbach, Elaine Equi, and Bob Perelman. An essay by Ann = Lauterbach on the prize-winning collection will appear in The Nation, along with a = selection of poems from the book. The previous winners of the Lenore Marshall Prize are John Ashbery, = Sterling A. Borwn, Hayden Carruth, Wanda Coleman, Cid Corman, David Ferry, Tom Gunn, Marilyn = Hacker, John Haines, Donald Hall, Josephine Jacobsen, Mark Jarman, Stanley Kuinitz, Denise = Levertov, Philip Levine, John Logan, Thomas McGrath, W. S. Merwin, Josephine Miles, Howard Moss, = Robert Pinsky, Adrienne Rich, Michael Ryan, George Starbuck, Allen Tate, and Charles = Wright. The Leonore Marshall Poetry Prize was established in 1975 by the New = Hope Foundation in memory of Lenore Marshall (1897-1971), a poet, = novelist, essayist, and political activist. Leonore Marshall was the = author of three novels, three books of poetry, a collection of short = stories, and selections from her notebooks. Her work also appeared in = The New Yorker, The Saturday Review, Partisan Review, and other literary = magazines. In 1956 she helped found the National Committee for a Sane = Nuclear Policy, the citizens' organziation that lobbied successfully for = passage of the 1963 partial nuclear test ban treaty. The Leonore = Marshall Poetry Prize is endowed by a gift to the Academy from the New = Hope Foundation, which for more than forty years worked to support world = peace, literature, and the arts. The Nation first joined with the New = Hope Foundation to present the Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize in 1982. In honor of the two nominees, we are offering a 20% discount on = Republics of=20 Reality and Atmosphere Conditions to any member of this list or the = Poetics list. The Bernstein book is $14.95, which with the 20% discount and postage = would come to $13.21 The Roberson book is $10.95, which with the 20% discount and postage = would come to $10.01 Send a check made out to Sun & Moon Press to 6026 Wilshire Blvd., Los = Angeles, CA 90036 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:42:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david antin Subject: Peace in Our Time Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I have no trouble understanding the distaste of so many people on the list for the policies and rhetoric of the Bush government and to a great extent I share it. But I don't understand the fantasy of some kind of peaceful resolution with our enemies in the Islamic world. A murderous, suicidal attack was launched against the city of New York by a terrorist group who have no interest in peace with the United States. What they appear to be aiming at is a rallying of Islamic discontents -- of which there are many with real reasons for their discontent -- around a flag of religious reform. They've said so and I think you have to take their word for it. What they want is a jehad against the modern secular world, of which United States is the foremost exponent. They haven't done well in the modern world. They've been robbed by their own rulers as well as by colonial powers contending for trade routes or oil. And what the terrorist leaders like bin Laden appear to be trying to do is to show that devotion to a religious cause by just a few true believers can cause chaos among the infidel. If the present anthrax attacks are shown to be part of the bin Laden terror campaign, it would add support to this view, because these attacks are more panic inducing than seriously damaging. If his people get away with their attacks and there is no powerful counter response, they will gain prestige for their accomplishment, acquire new recruits and repeat their attacks. If they are counter-attacked and survive, they'll be admired as heroes by the same group of discontents,gain recruits and attack again. The only option is a counterattack that they don't survive or survive with so much damage that it inhibits their abilities to strike again. There is no peace option. By contrast, Israel and the Palestinians have a fairly simple peace option, not very likely in the present circumstance, but real nonetheless. An Israeli withdrawal from the territories and a relocation of the settlements that allows an integral Palestinian state would go a long way to resolving the intifada. That is of course the last thing the terrorists would want. But is the attack on Afghanistan the kind of counter-attack that makes sense? Until the attack on the World Trade Center, the US exhibited no special interest in overthrowing the Taliban. The suggestion that the attack on Afghanistan is about oil is ridiculous. It is almost as likely that we're after their poppy crop. The attack on the Taliban is a retaliation against a government that "harbors and trains terrorists", and to the degree that the attack is seriously functional, it will destroy bin Laden's training centers and much of his personnel. This may or may not be reasonably successful, but the main effect is to make clear to other governments that it will cost dearly to support bin Laden or his like. At the same time the US has until recently moved very cautiously with the Northern Alliance. They are probably no better than the Taliban, though this is of no great concern to the US. The governing maxim of diplomacy and war is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But a serious mitigating condition is the hostilitu of the American "friend," Pakistan, to the Northern Alliance. By the same maxim, the enemy of our friend is our enemy. At the least, this has made us wary of the Northern Alliance. And Pakistan's situation is precarious. It has nuclear weapons and a restless pro-Taliban minority. So the US, if the rumors regarding this are reliable, has apparently even been considering Taliban participation in a new Afghan coalition government after the present government is overthrown. Is this nice? Is this just? Is it desirable? The question is absurd. It is Realpolitik. Some list writers have confidently assured me that such a government must fail because the US will have invented it. Maybe so, but the US contributed mightily to the invention of the Taliban, and they've already lasted too long. As for the prolonged bombing,it doesn't seem functional. There can hardly have been a sufficient number of military targets for so long a bombing campaign, and every extra day of bombing will produce more innocent civilian casualties. If the Bush government insists on an overt action to get bin Laden and destroy his recruits, they'll have to send in ground troops and go after them. This may be somewhat useful. But the real action will still be an international covert counter-intelligence operation against the sabotage networks. Either we kill them off or they will continue to produce intermittent havoc. And to argue that we won't get all of them and therefore should do nothing is absurd. When your house is infested with mice, you kill off as many as you can and they disappear for a while. When they reappear, you go after them again. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:41:05 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: excellent video made one week after september 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.freespeech.org/ramfiles/911_nycimc.ram ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:57:08 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Silence of 4 Terror Probe Suspects Poses Dilemma MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe. Some of the good things about the US (or am I naive?) are that reputation of the FBI's and your Constitution etc (and some of the real progess that has been made in human rights without overlooking the problems and injustices) ..... but the FBI has a relatively high reputation but maybe that is one of those myths we would like to believe. Trouble with torture is that if you are dealing - I say IF - with a more ruthless opponent, its not in the self interests of the US to torture, as of course it means the enemy will treat any "suspects" they capture equally or more ruthlessly, and maybe its another question as to when or whether the ends ever justify the means. I dont think that the US has its "back to the wall" (yet) so to speak..but even during the 2nd WW (when the US may have been justified as the Japanese treatment of people everywhere was abyssmal) it was probably better to be as human and humane as possible as its opposite leads to the kind of thinking and attitude hence actions that (maybe indirectly and rather elliptically) lead to the US being attacked on S11. For now the FBI I feel should try to keep its reputation as far as it goes and you also have the constitution as well as a "moc" ridden democracy...but I suppose that's something. Keep to your own Constitution, I feel. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Brennan" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:23 AM Subject: Silence of 4 Terror Probe Suspects Poses Dilemma > Subj: [zizek-l] Silence of 4 Terror Probe Suspects Poses Dilemma > Date: 10/22/2001 12:23:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time > From: beckwith@uswest.net > Reply-to: zizek-l@yahoogroups.com > To: zizek-l@yahoogroups.com > Sent from the Internet (Details) > > > > This is disturbing.... > ____________________________________________- > Silence of 4 Terror Probe Suspects Poses Dilemma > > By Walter Pincus > Washington Post Staff Writer > Sunday, October 21, 2001; Page A06 > > > FBI and Justice Department investigators are increasingly frustrated > by the silence of jailed suspected associates of Osama bin Laden's al > Qaeda network, and some are beginning to that say that traditional > civil liberties may have to be cast aside if they are to extract > information about the Sept. 11 attacks and terrorist plans. > > More than 150 people rounded up by law enforcement officials in the > aftermath of the attacks remain in custody, but attention has focused > on four suspects held in New York who the FBI believes are > withholding valuable information. > > FBI agents have offered the suspects the prospect of lighter > sentences, money, jobs, and a new identity and life in the United > States for them and their family members, but they have not succeeded > in getting information from them, according to law enforcement > sources. > > "We're into this thing for 35 days and nobody is talking," a senior > FBI official said, adding that "frustration has begun to appear." > > Said one experienced FBI agent involved in the investigation: "We are > known for humanitarian treatment, so basically we are stuck. . . . > Usually there is some incentive, some angle to play, what you can do > for them. But it could get to that spot where we could go to > pressure . . . where we won't have a choice, and we are probably > getting there." > > Among the alternative strategies under discussion are using drugs or > pressure tactics, such as those employed occasionally by Israeli > interrogators, to extract information. Another idea is extraditing > the suspects to allied countries where security services sometimes > employ threats to family members or resort to torture. > > Under U.S. law, interrogators in criminal cases can lie to suspects, > but information obtained by physical pressure, inhumane treatment or > torture cannot be used in a trial. In addition, the government > interrogators who used such tactics could be sued by the victim or > charged with battery by the government. > > The four key suspects, held in New York's Metropolitan Correctional > Center, are Zacarias Moussaoui, a French Moroccan detained in August > initially in Minnesota after he sought lessons on how to fly > commercial jetliners but not how to take off or land them; Mohammed > Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan, Indians traveling with false > passports who were detained the day after the World Trade Center and > Pentagon attacks with box cutters, hair dye and $5,000 in cash; and > Nabil Almarabh, a former Boston cabdriver with alleged links to al > Qaeda. > > Questioning of "the two with the box cutters and others have left us > wondering what's the next phase," the FBI official said. > > One former senior FBI official with a background in counterterrorism > said recently, "You can't torture, you can't give drugs now, and > there is logic, reason and humanity to back that." But, he > added, "you could reach a point where they allow us to apply drugs to > a guy. . . . But I don't think this country would ever permit > torture, or beatings." > > He said there was a difference in employing a "truth serum," such as > sodium pentothal, "to try to get critical information when facing > disaster, and beating a guy till he is senseless." > > "If there is another major attack on U.S. soil, the American public > could let it happen," he said. "Drugs might taint a prosecution, but > it might be worth it." > > Even some people who are firm supporters of civil liberties > understand the pressures that are developing. > > David Cole, a professor at Georgetown University Law Center who > obtained the release of Middle Eastern clients after they had been > detained for years based on secret information, said that in the > current crisis, "the use of force to extract information could > happen" in cases where investigators believe suspects have > information on an upcoming attack. > > "If there is a ticking bomb, it is not an easy issue, it's tough," he > said. > > Kenneth W. Starr, the independent counsel during the Clinton > administration, wrote recently that the Supreme Court distinguished > terrorism cases from cases where lesser threats are involved. He > noted that five justices in a recent deportation case recognized that > the "genuine danger" represented by terrorism requires "heightened > deference to the judgments of the political branches with respect to > matters of national security." > > Former attorney general Richard L. Thornburgh said, "We put emphasis > on due process and sometimes it strangles us." > > In the aftermath of Sept. 11, he said, "legally admissible evidence > in court may not be the be-all and end-all." The country may compare > the current search for information to brutal tactics in wartime used > to gather intelligence overseas and even by U.S. troops from > prisoners during military actions. > > Extradition of Moussaoui to France or Morocco is a possibility, one > law enforcement official said. The French security services were > quick to leak to journalists in Paris that they had warned the CIA > and FBI in early September, before the attacks, that Moussaoui was > associated with al Qaeda and had pilot training. > > The leak has irritated U.S. investigators in part because "it was so > limited," one FBI official said. "Maybe we should give him > [Moussaoui] to them," he said, noting that French security has a > reputation for rough interrogations. > > The threat of extradition to a country with harsh practices does not > always work. > > In 1997, Hani Abdel Rahim al-Sayegh, a Saudi citizen arrested in > Canada and transferred to the United States under the promise that he > would tell about the bombing of the Khobar Towers military barracks > in Saudi Arabia, refused to cooperate in the investigation when he > got here. > > The FBI threatened to have al-Sayegh sent back to Saudi Arabia, where > he could have faced beheading, thinking it would get him to talk. "He > called their bluff and went back, was not executed and is in jail," a > government official said. > > Robert M. Blitzer, former chief of the FBI counterterrorism section, > said offers of reduced sentences worked to get testimony in the cases > of Ahmed Ressam, caught bringing explosives into the country for > millennium attacks that never took place, and Ali Mohammed, the > former U.S. Army Green Beret who pleaded guilty in the 1998 embassy > bombings and provided valuable information about al Qaeda. > > The two former al Qaeda members who testified publicly in the 1998 > bombing trials were resettled with their families in the United > States under the witness protection program and given either money or > loans to restart their lives. > > Torture "goes against every grain in my body," Blitzer said. "Chances > are you are going to get the wrong person and risk damage or killing > them." In the end, he said, there has to be another way. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:16:47 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "l][m][att][r][ice" Subject: [BAM New Media] Under_score: Net art, Sound, and Essays from Aust ralia Comments: To: recode@autonomous.org, spectre@mikrolisten.de, syndicate@anart.no, Text_On_line@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Brooklyn Academy of Music (BAM) presents Under_score: Net Art, Sound, and Essays from Australia at http://www.bam.org/under_score, an online exhibition showcasing the works of nine Australian artists for whom the internet has emerged as one of the most significant arenas for artistic experimentation and multimedia production. The exhibit is part of Next Wave Down Under, BAM's month-long celebration of Australian arts and culture. The works presented here represent a vast diversity of approaches, technologies, applications, and aesthetics, but with few exceptions, coalesce thematically around "the body", a persistent theme which at the beginning of the new millennium is present more than ever in discussions of art, the sciences, and the media. From Francesca da Rimini's diary-like reflections and confrontational rants concerning erotic relations, power, and sexual taboo in GashGirl, to the richly layered dream-like 3D spaces and soundscapes in Melinda Rackham's empyrean, Australian artists are helping to define new modes of electronic writing and reading, multimedia, performance, image making, and sonic production. Other artists include John Tonkin, MEZ, Paul Brown, geniwate, Ian Haig, Honor Harger, Adam Hyde, zina kaye, Caleb K., Mr. Snow, Gary Zebington, and Jason Sweeney. In addition, Under_score provides related links to fourteen works by Australian artists working in a variety of new media formats including CD-ROM, installation, and performance. There are two innovative online broadcasters, l'audible and r a d i o q u a l i a, delivering some of the most compelling sound work in Australia and New Zealand, and select audio pieces from The Listening Room, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's award sound art program. In order to expand the discussion of these works and their significance BAM has commissioned three online essays by Allen Feldman, an American cultural and political anthropologist, Australian new media theorist Darren Tofts, and Australian writer and media critic McKenzie Wark. Under_score: Net Art, Sound and Essays from Australia, now available at: http://www.bam.org/under_score In conjunction with Next Wave Down Under, BAM commissioned Australian new media company, Drome to recreate the CD-ROM Making Chunky Move for web delivery. The web work explores how one of Australia's most exciting contemporary dance companies created the dance work Corrupted 2, which made its U.S. debut at BAM during this year's Next Wave Festival. The documentary follows the company from the germ of an idea to the stage, behind the scenes and beyond, including snapshot interviews with the key players, dancers, creative collaborators, and other cultural professionals as well as unique virtual 3-D segments, sound bites, and extensive video footage. Making Chunky Move, now available at: http://www.bam.org/chunkymove For more information, contact Wayne Ashley, BAM's Manager of New Media via email at washley@bam.org _______________________________ Coming Soon: Arts in Multimedia New Media installations featuring the works of Paul Kaiser, Nicolas Tsingos, John Jesurun, Dan Lee, Kit August, Ben Rubin and Mark Hansen Starts Nov 20 at BAM's Hillman Attic Studio http:/www.bam.org/asp/newmedia.asp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:51:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: some people using "there" in my email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = some people using "there" in my email Strangely I realize I know almost no one there now. contacts there would be of great help. > contacts there would be of great help. > > almost a different country -- yet the last time I went there maybe 8 years are there any questions i can answer for you, or any other help i can > Anyway, we'll be there in Miami in the middle of August - how far in terms one of my personal faves. In terms of offline stuff, there's Philippe=20 This is quite a page put together (and there are other links pages linked=20 written extensively about it. I see that Cauldron & Net is described there= there is no good reason not to view the myriad subscription-free online=20 is there actually a beach? is it swimmable? are natives friendly? messages - I'm dialing correctly, so there might be something wrong at 1 or 2 digital cameras - $300 - $400 for one of them - then there are Second DV camcorder if there's anything left. Editing software if there's anything left. This is where it gets compli- there are several on the market. I could put some cracked software up as hours or so if we get all the PCs. And there would be no one for tech can't let students in off hours because there's no one watching the place. modem connection - the biggest problem is that there is no T1 or other fast line in W10 / 105), but little more, and if there are problems, there know if there's a precedent for it. I'm not a tech person myself, although works fine there - and hopefully we would be able to do it similarly on Macs there (and add some new ones) - and I haven't been able to get them > there are no other pcs at the moment. Finally, I did think that there would be more backup for the position, not about it. For the past ten days or so there have been dead lizards, First - I never did get any TA help at all; is there any chance this will Someone said we might be able still to hire adjuncts? Is there a freeze teaching and trying to settle in Miami, and instead there seem to be con- group together as hypermedia). First there is the problem of the digital theory of language, which deals with both? In what sense is there either Across the web, around the world there are many practitioners of this Clifford Still. In the lower right of the screen there is a gray, barely as a wildcard, the prefix "ex" becomes "exe" - and there is the development In all these works there is a serration of common language with code[s] (of attached here and there, amongst devices. Text is boring without There has always been more to writing than text, and there is more to constantly, talking about work "out there" that they can't hope to dupli- > there). I wasn't making much money in NY but doing online, and in writing, > I'd love to get together sometime, and of course if there were any chance >> Hi Alan- what are you doing there? Is it a permanent move? I would love to >> last met? How do you like Miami? I know a few good people there if you are and what is set up. Is there any equipment set up that's not in the to get on their mailing list, and there is a whole schedule of events for > Thanks - I'm hoping to get over there; at this point, I'm confined to the part, and there is lots of room on the countertops for spreading out difficulty getting access to equipment there. At the Art Lab, we have 10 Take 836 E (there's a toll right before you get on I-95). Take I-95, first haven't taken any breaks at all this semester, and there's no final exam. can be in any medium. For graduate students, there are additional only accepts PPO not HMO. However, he said there are ways to get _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:13:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: Dogma '01 & Behind the Meatball Curtain / Late Editions to -VeRT Magazine Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Fellow Listers -- This just in, new additions to Issue #5 of -VeRT Magazine : Dogma '01 by David Larsen : http://www.litvert.com/lrsn.html & Behind the Meatball Curtain By yours truly : http://www.litvert.com/meatballs.html To read -VeRT Magazine go to this link : http://www.litvert.com Drop a line while you're there... Best, Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:31:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r..phony radicalsim... 'stead of eating in Afghan restaurants..... how 'bout working for real change...i.e...the abolition of tenure...i.e....equal pay and working conditions for teaching asstants and chaired profs.......Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:49:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...Susan Sontag in Hell wires plastic cars 1,100 degrees dust & tiny paricles of lime debris good insulating blanket caustic alkaline powder chief component of cement..............Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:11:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: Fwd: concert in San Francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ARS ANTIQUA de la Sainte Chapelle de Paris for an extraordinary and unique concert at the Church of Notre Dame des Victoires at 556 Bush Street in San Francisco, featuring Joseph Sage as contertenor, Sophie Toussaint and Thierry Meunier on Saturday, November 3, at 7:15 pm. Program will consist of: -music from the time of Saint Louis, -works of Guillaume Dufay and the Court of Burgundy (15th Century ) - the Golden age of Spanish music ( 16th century ). Reservations are strongly recommended. Please call 415-775-7755. Non-members $17, Members $12. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:08:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rodrigo Toscano Subject: Watten / Robinson in NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OCTOBER 27: BARRETT WATTEN AND KIT ROBINSON Barrett Watten is the author of over 8 eight books of poetry, including Frame (Sun and Moon Press), and Bad History (Atelos). His current creative project is called The Grand Piano, and his current critical work is The Constructivist Moment. Progress/Under Erasure is forthcoming with Sun & Moon Press. He teaches at Wayne State University. Kit Robinson has been active on the San Francisco poetry scene since the mid 70s. His recent books include Democracy Boulevard (Roof) and, with Alan Bernheimer, Cloud Eight (Sound & Language). 173 MOTT STREET, JUST SOUTH OR BROOME ST. SATURDAYS FROM 4:00-6:00 PM $4 admission goes to support the readers ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:23:32 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "l][m][att][r][ice" Subject: _[_re:writing vicious-skinned traumas_]_[version 1] Comments: To: list@rhizome.org, spectre@mikrolisten.de, syndicate@anart.no, thingist@bbs.thing.net, webartery@onelist.com, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed _[_re:writing vicious-skinned traumas_]_ +crumpled gaps in bovine faces+ _[a wayward man][dible][ zig-jags a.cross ][+][ a swollen greyed-out ramp]_ _[dust-covered N letta-s][l][ick, buffeted by vitriol wings]_ _[gasping in my ][& many][ f][ractured][.ace]_ +political t.issue][s][ in back-crack][l][ing ][wish][lists][+ _[in.sect][m][ile][s][ N sacks]_ _[communication dis.mantle/member.ing]_ _[stra][fing][tegies of packet blood-lett][p][ing][!][]_ +strat.e.e.g.ick mad.ouvre.ring+ _[body miss][N Ms N Mrs][iles]_ _[a forced-gorilla mouthing senti][m][ents] _[its throat devolving in2 future pacts of language stone]_ _[de.st][ar st][ruct]_ _server f.][plastic-shelled ][arm][s N legs][ N ego blasting in the spam.o.sphere][_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:49:40 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: bought a pup? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hiya, six weeks on we can now see that the war on 'terror' is just a pretext - and a desirable one at that. The Taliban, installed with US support, isn't playing ball and this tragedy has provided the near perfect (near perfect only in that it is an extremely dangerous chapter of the Great Game and could yet backfire) cover to prove even further that control of oil is paramount. That's the subtext, but it's rapidly becoming the main read. Curious that there's no mention now of 'Enduring Freedom', but then it's really Operation Secure Pipeline or Campaign Stable Conduit . . . or love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:19:36 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: A Cultural History of the Penis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the result, er, of an interesting project.....? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 4:57 AM Subject: Re: A Cultural History of the Penis > very cute. > > At 5:19 PM -0400 10/18/01, Joe Brennan wrote: > >Subj: [evol-psych] A Mind of Its Own: A Cultural History of the Penis > >Date: 10/18/2001 4:46:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time > >From: ian.pitchford@scientist.com (Ian Pitchford) > >Reply-to: > >Ian.Pitchford@scientist.com (Ian Pitchford) > >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com > > > >A Mind of Its Own: A Cultural History of the Penis > >by David M. Friedman > >Hardcover - 368 pages (October 30, 2001) > >Free Press; ISBN: 0684853205 > >AMAZON - US > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684853205/darwinanddarwini/ > >AMAZON - UK > >http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684853205/humannaturecom/ > > > >David M. Friedman's A Mind of Its Own is a cultural examination of the penis, > >from ancient Sumer to the present. Friedman convincingly suggests that > >humankind's various and contradictory attitudes toward the penis have been > >instrumental in mapping the course of both Western civilization and world > >history. > > > >Friedman begins with pagan attitudes: ancient Greeks considered the penis a > >measure of a man's proximity to "divine power," while the Romans, whose > >generals were known to promote soldiers based on penis size, saw it as an > >indicator of earthly strength. Thanks to the spread of Christianity, the > >"sacred staff became the demon rod"--a fearful manifestation of the devil. > >Theology gave way, grudgingly, to science. In the Renaissance, anatomical > >discoveries allowed for the possibility that this "agent of death" was, in > >fact, only a "blameless instrument of reproduction." Subsequent chapters > >discuss the penis's role as a racial yardstick; its "defining role in human > >personality" as asserted by Freud; its politicization; and finally, through > >the > >likes of Viagra, its objectification as a "thing ... impervious to religious > >teachings, psychological insights, racial stereotypes and feminist criticism." > > > >Friedman's study of what he calls the "symbolic muscle" is filled with > >fascinating side trips (castration cults, ancient graffiti, the > >anti-masturbation "semen-retention movement," aphrodisiacs through the ages, > >and, to modern eyes, risible medical practices with the likes of monkey > >glands), as well as a rich cast of characters (Leonardo da Vinci, John Kellogg > >of cornflake fame, Kate Millet, Clarence Thomas, and Walt Whitman). The book > >is > >informal, but well researched (and documented), entertaining but not cute, > >wide-ranging but not sketchy, and simultaneously irreverent and > >respectful. --H. O'Billovich > > > >>From Publishers Weekly starred review > >"Over time, the penis has been deified, demonized, secularized, racialized, > >psychoanalyzed, politicized and, finally, medicalized," declares freelance > >journalist Friedman in a serious yet entertaining book that weaves together an > >enormous amount of material. In the Greek and Roman worlds, statues of figures > >with erections were commonplace, he observes, though by the Christian era, the > >penis had become a source of evil and weakness. Doctors and scientists from da > >Vinci onward "deflat[ed] the religious rhetoric" and scrutinized the male > >organ > >sometimes with untoward results, as when American "semen science" led to the > >creation of antimasturbation products such as Graham crackers. Western man's > >fear of the African phallus undergirded colonialism and slavery, and resonates > >to this day, Friedman argues, as was evident in the case of Clarence Thomas. > >If > >some of Freud's case histories might be questioned, Friedman notes how the > >psychoanalytic interpretation enduringly places the penis and associated > >anxieties at the fulcrum of society. The rise of feminism put the penis in its > >place, as The Hite Report pointed out the limits of conventional intercourse > >in > >moving women to orgasm, and as Andrea Dworkin exposed penile pathology though > >the author concludes that male sexuality arises more out of evolutionary > >strategy than misogyny. His final and liveliest chapter concerns the > >medicalization of the penis, culminating in Viagra. Even though Friedman > >quotes > >a (female) sex therapist on the limits of such drugs, he concludes > >optimistically that "the erection industry" has performed a paradigm shift, > >allowing man to impose his will below his belt. The book has a few gaps -- > >there's little about the gay penis -- but it should reign as the seminal > >treatment of this topic (and inspire many more puns). > > > >Copyright 2001 Cahners Business Information, Inc. > > > >>From Library Journal > > > >An impressively research-prone journalist who has written for Esquire, Rolling > >Stone, and the Village Voice, Friedman has prepared a catalog of happenings > >and > >horrors perpetrated on the penis or in the name of the penis as an organ and > >as > >an idea. His opening chapter about religious teachings begins with a ghastly > >story about the torture of a witch who "knew the Devil's penis." Next come > >Tissot and the medical antimasturbation mania, plus biological discoveries > >about the organ. This is followed by an even more terrible and detailed > >discussion of racist stereotypes and violence relating to supposedly > >macrophallic Africans. Chapter 4 belongs to Dr. Freud, Chapter 5 to feminist > >criticism, and Chapter 6 to Viagra and the erection industry since ancient > >Egypt. Referenced in considerable (if not perfect) detail, the work could be > >improved only by textual subheads and (perhaps) illustrations. A fascinating > >and sobering complement to more lighthearted books, including Maggie Paley's > >The Book of the Penis (Grove, 2001), Joseph Cohen's The Penis Book (Konemann, > >2001), and Kit Schwartz's The Male Member (St. Martin's, 1985). Recommended > >for > >collections in history, popular culture, and sexology. Martha Cornog, > >Philadelphia > > > >Copyright 2001 Cahners Business Information, Inc. > > > >Book Description > > > >Whether enemy or ally, demon or god, the source of satisfaction or the root of > >all earthly troubles, the penis has forced humanity to wrestle with its > >enduring mysteries. Here, in an enlightening and entertaining cultural study, > >is a book that gives context to the central role of the penis in Western > >civilization. > > > >A man can hold his manhood in his hand, but who is really gripping whom? Is > >the > >penis the best in man -- or the beast? How is man supposed to use it? And when > >does that use become abuse? Of all the bodily organs, only the penis forces > >man > >to confront such contradictions: something insistent yet reluctant, a tool > >that > >creates but also destroys, a part of the body that often seems apart from the > >body. This is the conundrum that makes the penis both hero and villain in a > >drama that shapes every man -- and mankind along with it. > > > >In A Mind of Its Own, David M. Friedman shows that the penis is more than a > >body part. It is an idea, a conceptual but flesh-and-blood measuring stick of > >man's place in the world. That men have a penis is a scientific fact; how they > >think about it, feel about it, and use it is not. It is possible to identify > >the key moments in Western history when a new idea of the penis addressed the > >larger mystery of man's relationship with it and changed forever the way that > >organ was conceived of and put to use. A Mind of Its Own brilliantly distills > >this complex and largely unexamined story. > > > >Deified by the pagan cultures of the ancient world and demonized by the early > >Roman church, the organ was later secularized by pioneering anatomists such as > >Leonardo da Vinci. After being measured "scientifically" in an effort to > >subjugate some races while elevating others, the organ was psychoanalyzed by > >Sigmund Freud. As a result, the penis assumed a paradigmatic role in > >psychology -- whether the patient was equipped with the organ or envied those > >who were. Now, after being politicized by feminism and exploited in countless > >ways by pop culture, the penis has been medicalized. As no one has before him, > >Friedman shows how the arrival of erection industry products such as Viagra is > >more than a health or business story. It is the latest -- and perhaps final -- > >chapter in one of the longest sagas in human history: the story of man's > >relationship with his penis. > > > >A Mind of Its Own charts the vicissitudes of that relationship through its > >often amusing, occasionally alarming, and never boring course. With > >intellectual rigor and a healthy dose of wry humor, David M. Friedman serves > >up > >one of the most thought-provoking, significant, and readable cultural works in > >years. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:49:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: Nuclear scientists interrogated over possible bin Laden link Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is becoming increasingly clear that this war is not about American Imperialism, a conflict with Islam, or a Palestinian problem. we (as people of the Western world) were attacked and fighting for our most basic survival. we have the enemy that is plain evil, can't be contained thru negotiations & should be eliminated. this enemy might be boosted by the policies of corrupt governments here and worldwide, but targets us - people - first. at the moment, this war is not going too good. it gets bogged down in a political nightmare reminiscent of Vietnam. time is of the essence. we should hit Taliban/al Quada a.s.a.p. with everything we've got, including ground troops and tactical nukes, if neccessary. Anybody who is looking for political alternatives and pieceful solutions should imagine what would happen if WW2 dragged on for another couple of years, allowing Hitler to gain nukes. Then check out this report from CNN. Igor Satanovsky kojapress.com ____ Nuclear scientists interrogated over possible bin Laden link ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) --Pakistani authorities have interrogated two leading nuclear scientists about possible contacts with the leader of Afghanistan's Taliban militia, government officials said. The revelation comes as reports emerge from The Times newspaper of Britain indicating that Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network have acquired nuclear materials for possible use against the West. Pakistan sources told CNN the two men were Chaud Abdul Majeed and Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, both people of deep religious beliefs and acclaimed scientists in the region. Mahmood was one of the founders of Pakistan's nuclear program and was detained Tuesday by intelligence agents in the eastern city of Lahore. Majeed, a scientist who worked for years with Mahmood at the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, also was also being held, officials in the Interior Ministry said on condition of anonymity. The sources said the two have had dealings with the Taliban and have been guiding them on science-related matters, although the exact nature of their dealings is unclear. Both men once worked at the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, but had been in Afghanistan since the Taliban came into power in 1996, the sources said. It was not clear why they were back in Pakistan. Neither has been charged with any crime. A senior government official told Associated Press news agency on condition of anonymity that Mahmood is not suspected of being linked to terrorism suspect Osama bin Laden or his al Qaida network. Bin Laden nuclear threat Bin Laden, the chief terror suspect in the September 11 attacks on the United States, has acquired nuclear material illegally from Pakistan, according to a front page report from The Times newspaper that quoted unnamed "intelligence sources". Although the sources were insistent bin Laden did not have the capacity to launch a nuclear attack, they said it appeared he had acquired a vast array of weaponry for intended use against the West. The Times said bin Laden's possession of nuclear components motivated the regular warnings from U.S. President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair that bin Laden would attempt to perpetrate worse atrocities than the suicide attacks on New York and Washington. The paper said: "Bin Laden has said it was his 'religious duty' to seek to acquire the chemical, biological and nuclear weapons of mass destruction." Even without the capability of launching a nuclear attack, fears still persisted that bin Laden could orchestrate the activation of a 'dirty bomb', whereby radioactive material could be dispersed in an urban area, causing death and contamination in a highly populated area. Pakistan weapons 'secure' Foreign nations worry about political unrest in Pakistan because the country, like its neighbor and rival, India, is a nuclear power. Some say uncertainty in the government could threaten the security of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. President Gen. Pervez Musharraf has drawn the wrath of Islamic militants for his decision to support the United States in its fight against terrorism and its airstrikes on Afghanistan. Some have advocated the overthrow of Musharraf. But the president insists the nation is behind him, and that Pakistan's nuclear weapons are in secure hands. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:55:03 -0600 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Organization: housepress Subject: broadside info. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ~ Announcing a New Publication from DELIRIUM PRESS ~ > > Delirium Press is pleased to announce the release of it's first in this > year's series of five limited edition broadsides. Each 11x14 broadside > is hand silk-screened in two colours, with a previously unpublished poem > and original artwork inspired by an artist's reading of the work. > > STEPHANIE BOLSTER - DOMESTICITY > with artwork by ALLISON HENDERSON > > Stephanie Bolster has published two books of poetry, White Stone: The > Alice Poems (Governor General's Award, 1998) and Two Bowls of Milk: a > third collection is forthcoming in spring 2002. She teaches creative > writing at Concordia University. > > Released October 25th, 2001 > $10 > > ~ Upcoming from Delirium Press ~ > > MICHAEL HARRIS - AT THE LIBRARY > with artwork by JESSIE BRUGGER > > Michael Harris has written six books of poetry, and has edited over > fifty poetry books for Signal Editions/V=E9hicule Press (Montreal). Twice= > > a prize-winner in the CBC Literary Competition, he has taught at McGill > and Concordia Universities, and at Dawson College. He is currently > working on a new collection entitled Circus. > > Available November 22nd, 2001 > $10 > > ~ > > Watch out for future Delirium Press Broadsides - Poets: Susan Gillis, > Stephen Brockwell and Carmine Starnino - to be released 2002 > > $50 for a subscription to the 2001-2002 broadside series (5 broadsides & > free postage) > Place order by email (be sure to include your mailing address) then mail > a cheque payable to Kate Hall or Adrienne Ho to: > Delirium Press > 5352 Ave du Parc, Apt. 36 > Montreal, QC > H2V 4G8 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:03:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Clay Subject: Granary Books autumn harvest [part 2 of 2] - New York's lovely weather hurts my forehead Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Continuing the last post of recent and new books from Granary [& thanks to poetics@ readers and writers for the incredible response!] Jack Smith. The Beautiful Book. First published by Piero Heliczer's the dead language in 1962 this is the only autonomous collection of Jack Smith's photographs to appear during his lifetime. The Beautiful Book comprises 19 hand-tipped black and white contact prints (2 1/4 square) originally published in a hand crafted edition of 200. An amazing book of legendary rarity. Our edition (also 200 copies) is made in collaboration with the Plaster Foundation - the photographs are printed from the original negs - hand-tipped with a silkscreened cover - saddle-stitched. A dead ringer for the original - a wonderful book - lost in the shuffle - now available. Price to be determined: we'll know for sure by Oct 30 - in the range of $350. Only 140 for sale. Advance reservations advised. Swoon by Nada Gordon and Gary Sullivan. $17.95. Finally... the true story of two poets who meet on the poetics list and fall in love... 325 pages with some pictures [in black and white] "Swoon is perfect" [says Eileen Myles] - Autobiography, poetry, literary essay and erotica all rolled into one Swoon documents the tenacity of love, and shows how, like a species of prehistoric insect that continues to crawl among us, it survives - with language as its host - even in inhospitable conditions. "...fabulous, compulsive reading: proof of the ability of love and need and even writing to trump the crappiness of daily life." Chris Kraus. The Tango by Leslie Scalapino and Marina Adams. $29.95 - Due in from Hong-Kong on Tuesday this book is oversized - printed in full-color - photographs [of debating monks] and text by Leslie Scalapino - works on paper, painting on found materials by Marina Adams. With a prefatory note by Robert Grenier. "The Tango is an investigation into the shifting locations of consciousness - how our investment into the attributes of things determines what is evoked by them. Through the variable reconstructions of given forms (the fractured repetitions of phrases and images) we encounter a multi-faceted possibility of awareness." Kiki Smith. A Purchase in the White Botanica: the Collected Poetry of Piero Heliczer (1937-1993) edited by Gerard Malanga and Anselm Hollo. 152 pp. $15.95 Luminous work by this wonderful poet, actor, filmmaker and guitarist - "Piero Heliczer is a prime constituent of NYC's magic underground of the hip 60s. With compatriots Angus MacLise, Gerard Malanga, Jack Smith a.o. he exemplified the visionary avant-garde artist. At once inter-disciplinary but always, and forever, the poet." Thurston Moore. "A landscape somehow medieval and modern, traveled by an oriental miniaturist with an Elizabethan sensibility, the observations noted in a unique discursive language of delicate clarity, of shifts and asides...I envy those readers coming to [these poems] for the first time." Tom Raworth [Note: Anthology Film Archives will present a four-day program of films by Jack Smith and Piero Heliczer Nov. 28-Dec 2. Check out their rather extensive calendar at http://www.anthologyfilmarchives.org detailing this exciting weekend.] Abundant Treasures by Simon Pettet and Duncan Hannah."Quanto e possente amor!" (How powerful love is!) Text and images printed by Inge Bruggeman at Textura Letterpress in Portland OR then handcolored by Duncan Hannah. Bound in printed cloth over boards by Judith Ivry. Circa 9" x 12" - 36 pages. Forty copies in the edition signed by poet and artist. Unpriced at this writing - please inquire. [Approximately but probably less than $2,000.] Details exist on our website which is gradually being updated. The above listed books will have all been published and will all be available by Oct 30, 2001. They are for sale directly from Granary [list people please take 20% off - special edition books excepted][drop a quick email to orders@granarybooks.com], from SPD and from many good bookshops around the world. Party: Please join us in New York at Teachers and Writers [5 Union Square West] on Tuesday October 30 7-9 pm. There will be readings and presentations at 7:15 with a reception following. All are welcome. -- Steve Clay Granary Books, Inc. 307 Seventh Ave #1401 NY NY 10001 212 337 9979 fax 212 337 9774 www.granarybooks.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:59:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: POETRY PROJECT EVENTS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit CALENDAR OF EVENTS OCTOBER 29 - NOVEMBER 5 MON 10/29 POM POM: POETRY JOURNAL Pom Pom, a brand spankin' new journal for poetry that seeks to foster a poetic polylogue by printing poems that talk with one another. For the debut issue, the editors sought poems from poets willing to have their work responded to, altered, lifted, plagiarized, or transformed. In subsequent issues the magazine promises work that flirts with, stomps on, folds up, bosses around, takes liberties with, and generally engages with poems in previous issues. Readers this evening are CHRIS JACKSON, NASHVILLE; JENN MCCREARY, PHILADELPHIA; CAROL MIRAKOVE, BROOKLYN; C.E. PUTNAM, SEATTLE; DEBORAH RICHARDS, PHILADELPHIA; and GARY SULLIVAN, Brooklyn; as well as the editors: ALLISON COBB; JEN COLEMAN; ETHAN FUGATE; SUSAN LANDERS. [8:00 P.M.] WED 10/31 VICTOR HERNANDEZ CRUZ AND EDWIN TORRES Celebrating new books by both authors: Cruz's Maraca: New and Selected Poems (Coffee House Press) and Torres's The All-Union Day of the Shock Worker (Roof Books). Born in Aguas Buenas, Puerto Rico, VICTOR HERNANDEZ CRUZ moved to New York City with his family at the age of five. In addition to his latest collection, Maraca: Selected Poems, his books include Papo Got His Gun, By Lingual Wholes, a poetic study of bi-lingualism, and Red Beans (Winner of the Publishers Weekly "Ten Best Books of the Year" Award). Publishers Weekly writes about Cruz's recent book Panoramas: "Celebrated for creating poetry that is a collision of the sounds, tensions and flavors of New York and Puerto Rico, Cruz achieves a musical vitality that surpasses any of his other volumes." EDWIN TORRES is a self-proclaimed Shock Worker, "making the world safe for danger." Torres creates performances that mingle textures of poetry with vocal and physical improvisation, sound-elements and visual theater. His CD Holy Kid (Kill Rock Stars) was part of The Whitney Museum's exhibit, The American Century Pt. II. In addition to The All-Union Day of the Shock Worker, his books include I Hear Things People Haven't Really Said, and Fractured Humorous (Subpress). [8:00 P.M.] FRI 11/2 POETRY DOG TAGS: NECK TO NECK HAIKU - HOSTED BY REGIE CABICO Poetry Dog Tags will give your thoughts a place to hang out ... around your neck! A contest between poets who will bring their own Dog Tags to the show, and slam off against each other with haikus they'll be wearing around their neck. Hosted by REGIE CABICO. [10:30 PM] MON 11/5 OPEN READING, sign-up at 7:30 pm. [8:00 PM] -- Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. If you are currently on our email list and would like to be on our regular mailing list (so you can receive a sample issue of The Poetry Project Newsletter for FREE), just reply to this email with your full name and address. Hope to hear from you soon!!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 04:55:00 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: billy little Subject: Report from the intellectual center of the colonies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Once again, rose @4:30am, to catch a 7:30 ferry and then two other ferries travelling 5 hours in the rain with my first edition Sitwells, Edith and Osbert to sell to the rare book dealer to pay my return fare, all to attend a couple of the events around the 400th anniversary of Tish magazine. After sharing homegrown pasta ala genoese avec Les Reids, Carol and Jaime, we set out for Capilano College, nestled in the hills of the end end of North Vancouver where Frank Davey the original editor gave a brilliant talk entitled Barcodes on Tish: Little Magazines, Nation States and Gobbleisation wherein he revealed how the counada council directly shores up bankrupt Chapters, which in return requires publishers to overprint and then pulps their mammoth returns(razing additional forests?) There was a panel of Respondants two young publishers from Calgary, Derek Beaulieu and Russ Rickey, spoke about Filling Station Magazine's similar dealings with Chapters and the Canada Council and th e CMPA the distributors, Sharon Thesen, editor of the Capilano Review, Susan Clark editor of Raddle Moon, Michael Barnholden, editor of Tsunami Press and Jason LeHeup were all on the panel, and Peter Oxier and Roy Miki and Stan Persky and George Bowering from among the audience in the packed lecture hall all contributed to a very revealing discussion. Afterwards the participants, other Tish writer/editors and similar lifelong malingerers poured libations at the gracious east end abode of Maria Hindmarch. The next day the Vancouver International Writers Festival featured Tish editors, Frank Davey, beginning with a hilarious gramatology of dog showese, David Dawson, according to Karl Ziegler, was there to prove to Frank Davey that he wasn't just a footnote in Canadian literary history, David Cull read some powerful political poems, Bobby Hogg eulogized Roy Rogers, Stan Persky's jowls threaten to reach Falstaffian proportions, Diane Laloge read a poem about her 17 year old encounter with the old man Spicer's transistor radio, he was hip because he knew everything and she was hip because she knew nothing, Brad Robinson's soft spoken rant about smoking received wide approval among an appreciative and vocal 800 strong audience filling Performance Works, the festival venue on the east end of Granville Island in the west end of False Creek,to the rafters, Maria Hindmarch delivered a powerful documentation of her recent surgery for breast cancer, Lionel Kearns was funny and profound as usual, just before the intermission, he screened the film that the painter gordon payne produced of his poem The Birth of God which consists of a one composed of zeroes surrounded by a Zero composed of ones, a 2 1/2 minute film with a mahvelous soundtrack by the composer Peter Huse. Both films were a retinal bombardment, trippy. Fred Wah, George Bowering, Daphne Marlatt and Jamie Reid rounded out an overwhelming evening of one powerful reading after another. So nice to see Goh Poh Seng back in town after his soujourn in Montreal and Newfoundland where hell be returning to take on the Poet-in-residenc e's toque at Memorial University in Cornerbrook. Poets Victoria Walker Margesson, Kate Van Dusen, Dorothy Trujillo Lusk, Kath Morris, Rob McLennan all in attendance. Carol Reid produced a marvelous packet of broadsides commemorating the event and a foyer display that summed everything up nicely. A young and bustling team of videomakers followed every move of the proceedings and more and will produce from their thoroughness an important documentary about these icons of canadian literature. A few drinks at the Arts Club afterwards and we've decided to have the fiftieth anniversary next year, a bit of tapas at La Bodega then it was early to bed in west vancouver for billy getting prepared for the six hour three ferry journey home in the rain the next afternoon. There were several other events that i wasn't able to attend i'm hoping others will fill in my gaps. sincerely, billy little -- _______________________________________________ FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free! http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:16:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: who Comments: To: imitationpoetics@topica.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Somebody Blew Up America By Amiri Baraka They say its some terrorist, some barbaric A Rab, in Afghanistan It wasn't our American terrorists It wasn't the Klan or the Skin heads Or the them that blows up nigger Churches, or reincarnates us on Death Row It wasn't Trent Lott Or David Duke or Giuliani Or Schundler, Helms retiring It wasn't The gonorrhea in costume The white sheet diseases That have murdered black people Terrorized reason and sanity Most of humanity, as they pleases They say (who say?) Who do the saying Who is them paying Who tell the lies Who in disguise Who had the slaves Who got the bux out the Bucks Who got fat from plantations Who genocided Indians Tried to waste the Black nation Who live on Wall Street The first plantation Who cut your nuts off Who rape your ma Who lynched your pa Who got the tar, who got the feathers Who had the match, who set the fires Who killed and hired Who say they God & still be the Devil Who the biggest only Who the most goodest Who do Jesus resemble Who created everything Who the smartest Who the greatest Who the richest Who say you ugly and they the goodlookingest Who define art Who define science Who made the bombs Who made the guns Who bought the slaves, who sold them Who called you them names Who say Dahmer wasn't insane Who? Who? Who? Who stole Puerto Rico Who stole the Indies, the Philipines, Manhattan Australia & The Hebrides Who forced opium on the Chinese Who own them buildings Who got the money Who think you funny Who locked you up Who own the papers Who owned the slave ship Who run the army Who the fake president Who the ruler Who the banker Who? Who? Who? Who own the mine Who twist your mind Who got bread Who need peace Who you think need war Who own the oil Who do no toil Who own the soil Who is not a nigger Who is so great ain't nobody bigger Who own this city Who own the air Who own the water Who own your crib Who rob and steal and cheat and murder and make lies the truth Who call you uncouth Who live in the biggest house Who do the biggest crime Who go on vacation anytime Who killed the most niggers Who killed the most Jews Who killed the most Italians Who killed the most Irish Who killed the most Africans Who killed the most Japanese Who killed the most Latinos Who? Who? Who? Who own the ocean Who own the airplanes Who own the malls Who own television Who own radio Who own what ain't even known to be owned Who own the owners that ain't the real owners Who own the suburbs Who suck the cities Who make the laws Who made Bush president Who believe the confederate flag need to be flying Who talk about democracy and be lying Who the Beast in Revelations Who 666 Who know who decide Jesus get crucified Who the Devil on the real side Who got rich from Armenian genocide Who the biggest terrorist Who change the bible Who killed the most people Who do the most evil Who don't worry about survival Who have the colonies Who stole the most land Who rule the world Who say they good but only do evil Who the biggest executioner Who? Who? Who? Who own the oil Who want more oil Who told you what you think that later you find out a lie Who? Who? Who? Who found Bin Laden, maybe they Satan Who pay the CIA, Who knew the bomb was gonna blow Who know why the terrorists Learned to fly in Florida, San Diego Who know why Five Israelis was filming the explosion And cracking they sides at the notion Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere Who make the credit cards Who get the biggest tax cut Who walked out of the Conference Against Racism Who killed Malcolm, Kennedy & his Brother Who killed Dr King, Who would want such a thing? Are they linked to the murder of Lincoln? Who invaded Grenada Who made money from apartheid Who keep the Irish a colony Who overthrow Chile and Nicaragua later Who killed David Sibeko, Chris Hani, the same ones who killed Biko, Cabral, Neruda, Allende, Che Guevara, Sandino, Who killed Kabila, the ones who wasted Lumumba, Mondlane, Betty Shabazz, Princess Margaret, Ralph Featherstone, Little Bobby Who locked up Mandela, Dhoruba, Geronimo, Assata, Mumia, Garvey, Dashiell Hammett, Alphaeus Hutton Who killed Huey Newton, Fred Hampton, Medgar Evers, Mikey Smith, Walter Rodney, Was it the ones who tried to poison Fidel Who tried to keep the Vietnamese Oppressed Who put a price on Lenin's head Who put the Jews in ovens, and who helped them do it Who said "America First" and ok'd the yellow stars Who killed Rosa Luxembourg, Liebneckt Who murdered the Rosenbergs And all the good people iced, tortured, assassinated, vanished Who got rich from Algeria, Libya, Haiti, Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Kuwait, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine, Who cut off peoples hands in the Congo Who invented Aids Who put the germs In the Indians' blankets Who thought up "The Trail of Tears" Who blew up the Maine & started the Spanish American War Who got Sharon back in Power Who backed Batista, Hitler, Bilbo, Chiang kai Chek Who decided Affirmative Action had to go Reconstruction, The New Deal, The New Frontier, The Great Society, Who do Tom Ass Clarence Work for Who doo doo come out the Colon's mouth Who know what kind of Skeeza is a Condoleeza Who pay Connelly to be a wooden negro Who give Genius Awards to Homo Locus Subsidere Who overthrew Nkrumah, Bishop, Who poison Robeson, Who try to put DuBois in Jail Who frame Rap Jamil al Amin, Who frame the Rosenbergs, Garvey, The Scottsboro Boys, The Hollywood Ten Who set the Reichstag Fire Who knew the World Trade Center was gonna get bombed Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin Towers To stay home that day Why did Sharon stay away? Who? Who? Who? Explosion of Owl the newspaper say The devil face cd be seen Who make money from war Who make dough from fear and lies Who want the world like it is Who want the world to be ruled by imperialism and national oppression and terror violence, and hunger and poverty. Who is the ruler of Hell? Who is the most powerful Who you know ever Seen God? But everybody seen The Devil Like an Owl exploding In your life in your brain in your self Like an Owl who know the devil All night, all day if you listen, Like an Owl Exploding in fire. We hear the questions rise In terrible flame like the whistle of a crazy dog Like the acid vomit of the fire of Hell Who and Who and WHO who who Whoooo and Whooooooooooooooooooooo! Copyright (c) 2001 Amiri Baraka. All Rights Reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:17:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Fouhy Subject: Edgar Allen POE and OPEN Mike Comments: To: "Zork Alan [Poetry] (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THIS WILL BE FUN!! PLEASE COME AND BE A POET OR WRITER OF THE PAST!!!! Northern Westchester Center for the Arts 272 N. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY 10549 Contact: Cindy Beer-Fouhy 914 241 6922 ext 17 Edgar Allen Poe Reading and Dead Poets OPEN MIKE Creative Arts Café Poetry Series Mt. Kisco, NY: October 29th at 7:30 PM the Creative Arts Café Poetry Series at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts will present the sixth annual Edgar Allen Poe and Company -- a selection of readings of the poetry of Edgar Allen followed by other special “Poet’s and Writers of the Past” and a “Dead Poets” OPEN MIKE. Adults and Community HS students are invited to read favorite selections from “dead poets and writers.” The special pre-Halloween Evening includes refreshments. Costumes are optional. Special feature “Poets and Writers of the Past” “guests” include: NWCA’s Jim Garth as Mark Twain; NWCA’s Theatre Director Paul Andrew Perez as Garcia Lorca; Poetry Series Host Cindy Beer-Fouhy as Dorothy Parker and others. Participating students who will read as their favorite poets and writers come from community schools including: Horace Greeley HS, Fox Lane HS, Soundview Prep, North Salem HS and Others . Suggested donation is $5.00 including refreshments. The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series is funded in part by grants from the New York State Council on the Arts and the Bydale Foundation. The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series is located in the spacious gallery of the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts at 272 N. Bedford Road in Mt. Kisco, NY . For a full schedule of readings or further information call 914 241 6922or log on to www.nwcaonline.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:45:03 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: Job Listing MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT We're hiring: Lake Forest College announces a tenure-track position for a creative writer with a scholarly credential in British literature. Applicants must have the the Ph.D. in English, a specialization in British literature, period open, and the capacity to teach workshop courses in poetry, fiction, or non-fiction prose. Teaching load is three courses per semester, including first-year composition. Preference will be given to candidates who can contribute to the college’s interdisciplinary program in Communications by teaching Rhetoric, Advanced Expository Writing, or Journalism. Send letter of application and vita to Benjamin Goluboff, Chair, English Department, Lake Forest College, Lake Forest, Illinois 60045-2399. Dossiers will be requested after initial screening. Postmark deadline is November 10. Interviews at the MLA convention in New Orleans. Lake Forest College is a private liberal arts college located thirty miles north of Chicago. --Bob Archambeau ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:00:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: of details MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - of details a missile trail.:the other waits:one waits.:: Does one wait. replace your missile trail. doll. one waits.:fields of stone.:a torn flag.:one hammers.: Write. another waits. my one waits. stones and planes.:bullet in free air. :one shoots.:a torn flag.:a torn flag. Your ghost dissolves my torn flags. tengu. one waits.:beaten women.:dead men. :: Your bullet dissolves. my perfect moon. troll. a letter.:another mark.:a mark.:: field of rocks.:a violent moon.:return.:: Your bomb dissolves. my weapons of mass destruction. kappa. starved children. i could break your bones. :burnt flesh.:this text.:i feel nothing.:nothing. Your semen nothing. is beneath me. empty. i feel nothing.:i feel nothing.:i feel nothing.::death. Does i feel nothing. replace you. doll. i will kill them.:i will kill you.:i will kill.:: Your raid dissolves me. ghost. i will kill myself.:i will kill you.:i will kill them all. :i feel nothing.:i feel nothing. Write i feel nothing. though i will kill myself. = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:30:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Fence 8/Fence Books Comments: To: ira@angel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fence 8 is out this week or next, and the Fence 8 website is up at http://www.fencemag.com, with work from poets and fiction writers including: Thalia Field, G.E. Patterson, Noelle Kocot, Wells Tower, Martha Rhodes, Timothy Donnelly, Stephanie Strickland, Sherry Mason, Leonard Schwartz, Otessa Moshfegh, Carrie St. George Comer, Chelsey Minnis, Aleksandr Vvedenskii, Padgett Powell, Cal Bedient, Catherine Wagner, and Mark McMorris. Also with the following features: Laura Riding's Letter to the World, The Black Took Collective's Call for Dissonance, previously unpublished work by Theresa Hak Kyung Cha including critics' statements, and "Eat, Grab Tit, Piss," a conversation between Joe Wenderoth and Sandy Brown. And exclusively on the website: D.E. Steward's "Month" of the Month Now might be a good time to subscribe . . . (if you are already a subscriber your copy will be in your mailbox in a few weeks) . . . and to visit the new Fence Books website at http://www.fencebooks.com, where you can download contest guidelines for the Alberta Prize and the Fence Modern Poets Series and also perhaps order the first two Fence Books books: Alberta Prize winner Zirconia, by Chelsey Minnis, and Miss America, by Catherine Wagner. "Zirconia's laconic visionary is detached, but alive to the poignancy of detachment, and through the "silver lips of a feverish child" invites connectivity by means of tenderness and brutality." --Fence Editors "Jack Spicer's Martians are back, but now they're talking wild girl-talk. In Catherine Wagner's Miss America, public and private collide in a new way, like matter and anti-matter. This is a conflagration. 'That is damage talk," she says, "Want to watch me/Make it'. And I do. In fact, if I died, I might want to come back as Catherine Wagner." --Rae Armantrout ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:03:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: Bill BERKSON & Vincent KATZ, Thurs Oct 25: 2 events Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable P O E T R Y C E N T E R 2 0 0 1 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents Two events with BILL BERKSON & VINCENT KATZ Thursday October 25 A Tribute to Rudy Burckhardt 3:30 pm, free @ Humanities 113, SFSU -AND- 7:30 pm, $7 donation reading from their poetry @ The Unitarian Center 1187 Franklin (at Geary) Join us for two special events linking the world of contemporary poetry with the overlapping world of visual arts. During an afternoon presentation on the SFSU campus, poets Bill Berkson and Vincent Katz pay tribute to their late friend, pioneering filmmaker, photographer, and painter Rudy Burckhardt-featuring films and slides of Burckhardt's utterly memorable and lovingly attentive works. Later that same evening, Mr. Berkson and Mr. Katz-both with bright new collections out-will read from their poetry at San Francisco's Unitarian Center. BILL BERKSON's discerning senses are as evident and welcome in his many writings on contemporary artists as in his uniquely "primitive / American / sophisticate" poetry. A corresponding editor for Art in America, and frequent contributor to Modern Painters, Art on Paper, and other magazines, Mr. Berkson works as professor of art history at the San Francisco Art Institute. His new book of poems, Fugue State, with cover by Yvonne Jacquette, is just out from Zoland Books. Other recent books are Serenade: Poetry and Prose 1975-1989 (with cover and drawings by Joe Brainard), Young Manhattan (prose collaboration with Anne Waldman), A Copy of the Catalogue (Labyrinth, Vienna), and Hymns of St. Bridget (with Frank O'Hara, new reprint edition). He lives in San Francisco. VINCENT KATZ is a poet, translator, and critic. His books in collaboration with artists include A Tremor in the Morning (with linocuts by Alex Katz), New York Hello! and Boulevard Transportation (both with photos by Rudy Burckhardt), Pearl (with paintings by Tabboo!), and Voyages (with artist James Brown). He curated, in 1998, the first museum retrospective of Rudy Burckhardt's work, for IVAM in Valencia, Spain, and last year co-curated, with Lynn Gumpert, Rudy Burckhardt and Friends: New York Artists of the 1950s and 60s for the Grey Art Gallery in New York. Mr. Katz has translated the Latin poems of Sextus Propertius-as the book Charm. Understanding Objects (Hard Press) is his latest book of poetry, "a new turn in the poetry of everyday experience" (Kenneth Koch). He lives in New York City. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D COMING UP: for details http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit October 27 Mark Nowak & Allison Hedge Coke November 2 Bernadette Mayer & Jack Collom November 5 What Is Afghanistan?: A Reading & Open Discussion November 10 Alice Notley November 29 Pierre Joris =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D LOCATIONS HUMANITIES Bldg, Room 113 on the SW corner of the San Francisco State University Campus, 1600 Holloway Avenue 2 blocks west of 19th Avenue on Holloway take MUNI's M Line to SFSU 28 MUNI bus or free SFSU shuttle from Daly City BART THE UNITARIAN CENTER is located at 1187 Franklin Street at the corner of Geary on-street parking opens up at 7:00 pm from downtown SF, take the Geary bus to Franklin READINGS that take place at The Poetry Center are free of charge. Except as indicated, a $7 donation is requested for readings off-campus. SFSU students & Poetry Center (with exception of October 15th Benefit Reading featuring Lawrence Ferlinghetti) get in free. All Poetry Center events are videotaped and made available to the public through our American Poetry Archives collection. The first Complete Catalog in over a decade detailing available Archives tapes will be published in late 2001, including videos from 1974 forward, and audiotapes dating from the early years of The Poetry Center , from its founding in 1954 through the early 70s. MEMBERS WILL BE MAILED A FREE COPY OF THE CATALOG ON PUBLICATION. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., as well as by the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:52:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: walterblue Subject: BIG BRIDGE FEATURE now September 11, 2001-THE LANGUAGE OF WAR AND PEACE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BIG BRIDGE http://www.bigbridge.org feature online now: SEPTEMBER 11, 2001-THE LANGUAGE OF WAR AND PEACE Bill Berkson, Joanne Kyger, Anne Waldman, Michael McClure, Roxanne = Poormon Gupta, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Duncan McNaughton, Tom Clark, = Hammond Guthrie, Mike Topp, Steve Allen May, Sarah Menefee, Zoketsu = Norman Fischer, Ira Cohen, Michael Rothenberg, Gabor Gyukics, Daniel = Moore, Ammiel Alcalay, Steve Ben Israel, Jonh Brandi, Jennifer Birkett, = Hanon Reznikoff, Stefan Hyner, Mary Sands, Michael Castro, Rick London, = William Slaughter, Renee Gregorio, RhondaK, Andrew Shelley, Miriam = Sagan, Andrew Schelling, Michael Rothenberg. Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge http://www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:44:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: by way of introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hello poetics list, i've been 'here' but silent for a month and just wanted to say how glad i am that you are all out 'there'. even in a good strong academic community like that of the university of virginia, where i am an english phd student, one rarely finds the kind of loose but intent sustained discourse this list exhibits every day, and i'm just very appreciative that it exists. for which reason a little poem of thanks. best, damian rollison 5:59 poem when time is short and i'm expected home the poem comes out with no malice of forethought even simplest phrases no obduracy of finnegans wake retreads even repetition of phrases when time is short and i'm expected home it's quicker to retype them and then them and when i cannot be i except how now arranging for the screen making a decision not to stop until the poem and the time are over this ought to be a poem about war but it is not this ought to be a poem like alan's rich with urls and system messages because i like those poems of alan's so much and i want to be like him but it is not that is not it or this ought to be talking like david's poems do because i don't want to have to condense but it is spaced out not condensed like poetry even though easy to read like talking in fact i am now late, now 6:13 and the poem is not ending of its own accord could stand to be undone and restitched will not take the time time time would rather write <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english/ institute for advanced technology in the humanities university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:29:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: San Francisco, Friday, 11/2: Jack Collom & Bernadette Mayer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friday, November 2, 2001 at 7:30 p.m. Jack Collom & Bernadette Mayer Please note that we are cohosting these visionary writers with the SF Art Institute & the Poetry Center; the event will be held in the Auditorium, SF Art Institute, 800 Chestnut, San Francisco. Jack Collom is the author of many books, including 8-Ball, with monoprints by Donald Guravich (Dead Metaphor Press, 1992), Arguing with Something Plato Said (Rocky Ledge, 1990), The Fox (United Artists, 1982), Little Grand Island (the press,1977), and Workday (Blue Pig, 1973). He has taught at Naropa and for the Teachers & Writers Collaborative in NYC. Bernadette Mayer is a legend in her own time; her many books include The Formal Field of Kissing (Catchword Papers, 1990), Another Smashed Pinecone (United Artists Books,1998) and Proper Name & other stories (New Directions, 1996). Of her recent Two Haloed Mourners, Ange Mlinko of The Poetry Project Newsletter wrote "The book starts out dense, vagrant, proceeding on a combination of automatic writing and methodical structural repetitions. It picks up speed, changes gears from poetry to prose and back again... a memoir of fear and loathing as the seventies somersault into the eighties." Coming up at SPT: 11/9 Alfred Arteaga and Juliana Spahr 11/11 Lucky 7: our 7th annual Soiree and Auction, also featuring the premiere of "The American Objectivists" by Kevin Killian and Brian Kim Stefans Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 Eighth Street San Francisco, California 94107 415/551-9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:04:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER: POG, Sunday Oct 28 (this Sunday!) 2 pm: JON ANDERSON & SHEILA PITT (UA Art Museum) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit REMINDER: POG presents Mixed-Media Artist Sheila Pitt Poet Jon Anderson Sunday, October 28, 2pm, University of Arizona Museum of Art (in the Fine Arts Complex) Sheila Pitt is a printmaker, painter, and soft-sculpture and mixed-media artist who lives and works in Tucson. She’s a professor in the Art Department of the University of Arizona and has had numerous shows in Tucson and across the country. Her presentation coincides with an installation of her work at the University of Arizona Museum of Art. Jon Anderson is the author of several books of poetry, among them Looking for Jonathan, Death & Friends, In Sepia, The Milky Way: Poems 1967-1982, and the recently published Day Moon. He teaches creative writing at the University of Arizona. POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council and the Arizona Commission on the Arts POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Extended University Writing Works Center, The University of Arizona Department of English, The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, and Chax Press. We also thank the following POG Sponsors: Maggie Golston, Mary Rising Higgins, Tenney Nathanson, and Frances Sjoberg. for further information contact POG: 296-6416 mailto:pog@gopog.org or visit us on the web at: www.gopog.org mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:03:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sarah Mangold Subject: Bird Dog Submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bird Dog: A dog used to retrieve game birds. To follow a subject of interest with persistent attention... Seeking innovative writing and art: collaborations, interviews, collages, poetry, poetics, graphs, charts, short fiction, non-fiction, cross genre, etc. Bird Dog is published bi-annually in winter and summer. 8 1/2 x 11, black & white, stapled. Subscriptions $12.00 for two issues. Individual copies $6. Checks payable to Sarah Mangold. Next Deadline: November 20, 2001 Submissions, Subscriptions, Queries: Bird Dog c/o Sarah Mangold 1819 18th Ave Seattle, WA 98122 Please enclose SASE for return of work ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:59:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ethan Paquin Subject: NEW STRIDE BOOKS WEBSITE IS ONLINE! Comments: To: ethan@slope.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STRIDE BOOKS "one of the most impressive small presses" - Times Literary Supplement Stride Books, one of the UK's preeminent independent presses, is pleased to announce the release of its brand-new website, located at www.stridebooks.com Visit today! ( ... and turn your computer's speakers on!) Rupert Loydell Managing editor Exeter, UK editor@stridebooks.co.uk Ethan Paquin American advisor New Hampshire, USA editor@stridebooks.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:43:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Molly Schwartzburg Subject: Bob Perelman reading 10/29 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** BOB PERELMAN *** Poet...scholar...poet *** READING FROM NEW POEMS *** Introduction by Sianne Ngai Monday October 29 4:30-6 PM Terrace Room, 4th Floor English Department, Building 460 Stanford University Located at the top of Palm Drive (continuation of Palo Alto's University Ave.) at the front of the Stanford Quad, just to the right of the central arch at the top of the Oval parking area. E-mail me if you need more specific directions. --Molly Schwartzburg This event sponsored by the Stanford Humanities Center, the English Department, and a grant from the Mellon Foundation. *** *** *** *** *** *** Molly Schwartzburg Stanford Humanities Center Stanford CA, 94305 650-724-8116 molly1@stanford.edu *** *** *** *** *** *** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:07:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: by way of intro ii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Dear List, In a different vein, I wonder if I could prevail on your collective and individual awarenesses for help with my dissertation project, which is now at an inaugural stage. I'm writing about the nexus of poem/text/notation/music/performance in Modernist poetry, specifically collaborations between Gertrude Stein and Virgil Thompson and between Louis and Celia Zukofsky, with some discussion of musical notation in Gerard Manley Hopkins' manuscripts, and of jazz and blues in Harlem Renaissance poetics. I'm also interested in Cage and Mac Low, but I don't know as much as I'd like to about contemporary poetic engagements with musical structure and performance. I'd love to hear, bc or otherwise, answers to some questions about contemporary practice (however one might choose to delimit 'contemporary'): 1) What poets have integrated musical notation into poetic texts? 2) What strike you as the most significant examples of opera or oratorio libretti, or other 'words for music', by contemporary poets? 3) What poets are especially interested in incorporating jazz, blues, modern orchestral, American folk, or other musics into their work? In a U.S. context especially, are there contemporary poets whose work is deeply engaged with music as a model? (I'm thinking of Zukofsky, Bunting, Langston Hughes as precursors here.) I ask these questions not to shirk the work myself, but because there are, to my knowledge, few obvious ways to research it. Thanks! Damian <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english/ institute for advanced technology in the humanities university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:00:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ethan Paquin Subject: Stride Books - New Releases - Nov. 2001 Comments: To: ethan@slope.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STRIDE BOOKS "one of the most impressive small presses" - Times Literary Supplement www.stridebooks.com for ordering information * We are about to receive delivery from the printer of Robin Tomens's POINTS OF DEPARTURE: ESSAYS ON MODERN JAZZ, price $20 U.S. / 10 pounds U.K. POINTS OF DEPARTURE is an alternative version of Jazz criticism, one which scratches beneath the veneer of Objectivity and challenges the tyranny of so-called expertise. Robin Tomens believes that Jazz has for too long been at the mercy of academics - who often serve only to alienate potential listeners, and that America's greatest musical art form deserves to be "freed from the cultural ghetto and given the chance to astound all who encounter the many treasures it contains." POINTS OF DEPARTURE offers both snapshots and larger portraits of post-war Jazz in a style that is distinctive, humorous, ironic, serious and honest. It deals with the reverential idolisation of jazz gods such as Miles Davis and John Coltrane, as well as lesser-known artists such as Don Ellis and Joe Harriott. It is not a guide or a history but one man's expression of the listening experience which he hopes will "entertain, inspire, provoke and playfully debate the nature of Jazz." The book features Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, Bud Powell, Lennie Tristano, Charles Mingus, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Ornette Coleman, Sun Ra, Cecil Taylor, Art Blakey, Horace Silver, Wayne Shorter, Andrew Hill, The Art Ensemble of Chicago, Gil Evans, Jimmy Giuffre, Eric Dolphy, Don Cherry, Roland Kirk, Archie Shepp, Pharoah Sanders and many others. * Alistair Fitchett, author if the Stride book YOUNG & FOOLISH, has just launched a website for 50 word fictions. Contributors thus far include David Lehman, Ron Palmer, Sheila Murphy, Peter Finch and others. If you want to contribute, read some, or find out more, visit www.fiftywords.co.uk. * Just published by Spirit Level Books and available from Stride Books is a collaborative prose poem pamphlet by Roselle Angwin and Rupert Loydell, price $5 U.S. / 2 pounds 50 pence. ___________________________________________________________ Rupert Loydell, Managing editor Stride, 11 Sylvan Road, Exeter, Devon EX4 6EW, England Ethan Paquin, American advisor Stride, 85 Old Nashua Road, Londonderry, NH USA 03053 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 00:13:04 +0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fredrik Hertzberg LIT Subject: More Zizek on WTC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At http://www.inthesetimes.com/web2524/zizek2524.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:14:33 -0700 Reply-To: max@oingo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Maxwell Subject: Mark Nowak & Marty Nakell @ Dawsons, 4pm Sunday! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Germ & the Poetic Research Bureau present Mark Nowak and Martin Nakell at Dawsons Book Shop, Sunday October 28 @ 4pm! *** What is "the rain which stubbed its toe on a book"? How many pierogi to re-roof a heritage? What is a "skutek"? A "zboze"? A "cra craw clo drah"? All these questions answered and more when we move out of the neighborhood and into the mystic this Sunday with Mark Nowak and Martin Nakell. At Dawsons! *** Mark Nowak is the founder and editor of the poetry journal Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics and the editor of Theodore Enslin's Then and Now: Selected Poems (National Poetry Foundation). His first collection is Revenants (Coffee House Press, 2000), which explores the Polish-American neighborhoods in and around Buffalo, New York, finding collective truths in the particularity of a unique culture. Check out Alan Gilbert's review of it in the Boston Review: http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR26.3/gilbert.html Nowak is an associate professor at the College of St. Catherine in Minnesota. Poet and fiction writer Martin Nakell has published poetry, The Myth of Creation (Parentheses Writing Series), a chapbook of fiction, Ramon, and the novels The Library of Thomas Rivka (Sun & Moon Press) and Two Fields That Face & Mirror Each Other (2001, Sun & Moon Press). Winner of the Gertrude Stein Award in Poetry for 1996-199 and an NEA Interarts Grant, he was also a finalist for the America' s Award in Fiction, 1997 (for The Library of Thomas Rivka), a finalist in the New American Poetry Series for 1999. Nakell is Professor of Literature at Chapman University, and Visiting Professor in Creative Writing at the University of California at San Diego. *** Dawsons is located at 535 N. Larchmont Blvd between Beverly Blvd and Melrose Blvd. Tel: 213-469-2186 Readings are open to all. $3 donation requested for poets/venue. Call Andrew at 310.446.8162 x233 for more info. *** The season continues: Oct. 28: Mark Nowak, Marty Nakell Nov. 11: Roberto Tejada, Kristen Gallagher Dec. 9: Charles Alexander, Kathleen Fraser But possible cancellations due to travel constraints & much else... ************************************************** Andrew Maxwell, gaslighter The Germ/Poetic Research Bureau 1417 Nolden St Los Angeles, CA 90042 "a dead romantic is a falsification" --Stevens _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:11:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: Nathaniel DORSKY: 3 films ** recommended!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NATHANIEL DORSKY: *LOVE'S REFRAIN*, *VARIATIONS*, AND *ARBOR VITAE* San Francisco Art Institute 800 Chestnut Street (two blocks up the hill from Columbus) (Take the 30 Stockton!!!) SATURDAY, OCTOBER 27TH AT 7:30 PM Nathaniel Dorsky: *Love's Refrain*, *Arbor Vitae* and *Variations* Nathaniel Dorsky returns with his three most recently completed films: *Variations*, *Arbor Vitae* and the second (ever) US screening of his latest film *Love's Refrain*, three films "which weave breathtakingly composed images into intricate and taut suspensions of cinematic light and movement." "Perhaps the most delicately tactile in this series, *Love's Refrain* rests moment to moment on its own surface. It is a coda in twilight, a soft-spoken conclusion to a set of four cinematic songs." (Nathaniel Dorsky) *Love's Refrain* -- which includes among its shots images of poets Philip Whalen and Bill Berkson-- will also play in Berkeley at the PFA Tuesday November 27th at 7:30, along with works by other makers. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:30:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: Mark NOWAK & Allison HEDGE COKE, Saturday Oct 27, 3:30 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable P O E T R Y C E N T E R 2 0 0 1 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents An afternoon reading with MARK NOWAK & ALLISON HEDGE COKE Saturday afternoon October 27 3:30 pm, free @ Knuth Hall Creative Arts 132, SFSU presented in collaboration with Wordcraft Circle of the Americas Native Writers and Storytellers & American Indian Studies, SFSU MARK NOWAK is the author of Revenants, a book of poetry, co-editor with Diane Glancy of the acclaimed anthology Visit Teepee Town: Native Writings After the Detours (both from Coffee House Press), and editor of the often extraordinary journal Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics, out of Minneapolis. Gerald Vizenor has called his poetry "an original return to a splendid ethos of ancestral word patterns." Mr. Nowak, who grew up in the Polish American neighborhoods of Buffalo, New York, and is an associate professor at the College of St. Catherine in Minneapolis. ALLISON HEDGE COKE is the author of Dog Road Woman, her American Book Award-winning debut collection of poetry (Coffee House Press). She co-edited two anthologies of Native American poetry and writing for the Institute of American Indian Arts, It's Not Quiet Anymore and Voices of Thunder, and is completing work on a memoir, Rock, Ghost, Willow, Deer: a survival narrative (forthcoming from U Nebraska). Prolific as a teacher and activist throughout the Western states, Ms. Hedge Coke is currently project coordinator for the program Mentorship for Incarcerated Youth in South Dakota, and is a board member of Wordcraft Circle of the Americas Native Writer and Storytellers. She lives in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. "Allison Hedge Coke is a skilled, spirited, young poet who is transforming and honing her social and personal experience and reflection to speak with the voice of a whole people." -Amiri Baraka "These are songs of righteous anger and utter beauty." -Joy Harjo NOTE: This afternoon's reading at Knuth Hall will be followed by a group reading in conjunction with Wordcraft Circle of the Americas Native Writers and Storytellers. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D COMING UP: for details http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit October 25 Bill Berkson & Vincent Katz November 2 Bernadette Mayer & Jack Collom November 5 What Is Afghanistan?: A Reading & Open Discussion November 10 Alice Notley November 29 Pierre Joris =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D KNUTH HALL is located in the Creative Arts Building on the San Francisco State University Campus, 1600 Holloway Avenue 2 blocks west of 19th Avenue on Holloway take MUNI's M Line to SFSU 28 MUNI bus or free SFSU shuttle from Daly City BART READINGS that take place at The Poetry Center are free of charge. Except as indicated, a $7 donation is requested for readings off-campus. SFSU students & Poetry Center (with exception of October 15th Benefit Reading featuring Lawrence Ferlinghetti) get in free. All Poetry Center events are videotaped and made available to the public through our American Poetry Archives collection. The first Complete Catalog in over a decade detailing available Archives tapes will be published in late 2001, including videos from 1974 forward, and audiotapes dating from the early years of The Poetry Center , from its founding in 1954 through the early 70s. MEMBERS WILL BE MAILED A FREE COPY OF THE CATALOG ON PUBLICATION. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., as well as by the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:34:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UGA Lanier Speakers Series Subject: Fwd: CRAIG DWORKIN Thursday, November 1, 4:00, 261 Park Hall Comments: To: creative writing Comments: cc: english grad students , women's studies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii UGA Lanier Speakers Series wrote: The University of Georgia English department, represented by Jed Rasula, would like to announce the next reader in the 2001 Lanier Speakers Series, Craig Dworkin. "Misreading: A User's Manual" Lecture by Craig Dworkin Thursday, Nov. 1, 4:00, 261 Park Hall Craig Dworkin has published widely in such journals as October, Word + Image, Contemporary Literature, and Sagetrieb. He also has essays forthcoming in American Women Poets in the Twentieth-First Century edited by Claudia Rankine, Transamerican Poetics: Experiment and Identity in the Poetries of the Americas edited by Roland Greene, and Poetry and Pedagogy: The Challenge of the Contemporary edited by Juliana Spahr. In addition, Dworkin has translated work by Brazilian concrete poet and theorist Haroldo de Campos, forthcoming in The De Campos Reader. Next year, Northwestern University Press will publish Craig Dworkin's first book, Reading the Illegible. He has been a member of the Department of English at Princeton University since 1998, and was previously a Visiting Assistant Professor in the Department of Art History at the University of California, Berkeley. For Craig Dworkin's poetry, please visit: http://www.epc.buffalo.edu/ezines/deluxe/two/K.html http://www.epc.buffalo.edu/ezines/deluxe/five/concrete.html http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/ezines/deluxe/two/contents.html http://www.ubu.com/contemp.html --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:57:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: "the faculty never recovered" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit gee, there is no END to the evil that the anti-war movement brought about.... think of the damage we're doing by questioning Bush's current policies! ******* from yestrerday’s Boston Globe: ''Honors at Harvard has just lost all meaning,'' said Henry Rosovsky, a top dean and acting president at Harvard in the 1970s and '80s. ''The bad honors is spoiling the good.'' With Harvard's new president, Lawrence Summers, focused on improving undergraduate studies and set to deliver his inaugural address this Friday, the Globe reviewed the university's academic records and internal memos over the last 50 years to analyze the rigors and rewards of a Harvard education. The documents indicate that Vietnam and the protest movements of the '60s led to an increase in lax grading campuswide, and that the faculty never recovered. Harry Lewis, the current dean of Harvard College, wrote in one e-mail that humanities professors today can't tell an A paper from a B paper, partly because of a ''collapse of critical judgment.'' ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:18:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: read or eat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII read or eat or do it that is the application for residency is ter minal : inter minable viz: a heart h vestigial investig vesti al ated don't read is german e ,perhaps relapse ? i.e. curtained curta iled etc. purga tive reviled relived what spectrum of tables i s that s ort of fort itude . it's rock fo undational , s pheroidical op c it. & personally i can take o r leave it . <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english/ institute for advanced technology in the humanities university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:09:04 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stacy Doris Subject: Reading of Translations: CHRISTOPHE TARKOS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On November 1st, 8 PM in Sulzberger Parlor located in Barnard Hall of Barnard College, 117th Street and Broadway Stacy Doris will read translations of the work of Christophe Tarkos from th= e new collection: Christophe Tarkos: Ma langue est po=E9tique, Selected Writing (New York: Roof Books, 2001). The book is the first-ever volume of writings by this important new French poet to appear in English. Video and/or audio footage of Tarkos reading should also be featured. The event is part of the Women Poets at Barnard series. Rika Lesser and Monica de la Torre will also read translations from other authors. Christophe Tarkos: Ma langue est po=E9tique, Selected Writing (New York: Roof Books, 2001), edited by Stacy Doris and Chet Wiener, with and introduction by Chet Wiener. This collection represents the variety and richness of Christophe Tarkos' oeuvre, for the first time ever in English, with translations by Norma Cole, Geneva Chao, Stacy Doris, Erin Mour=E9, Jonathan Skinner, Fiona Templeton, and Chet Wiener. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:39:56 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: David Antin: A Response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since others have disposed of David Antin's strange set of metaphors, I no longer feel any need to respond to it, except for this. In my view poets should be masters of metaphor; that is one of the things that we can count on them to do. They should make us examine the familiar metaphor with new eyes, or else they should throw startling new metaphors at us, so that our eyes see new things in the old things. Well, you all can decide for yourselves whether or not David Antin has done either of these things here. In my view, he has not. No, he seems to me to be a a rather tired victim of a rather traditional set of rather insidious cliches. Some time ago, Ron Silliman invited us to consider new ways to re-package the Left. Well, I'll leave this re-packaging job to you Madison Ave masters of the metaphor. As for me, the task of the Left is intellectually and morally clear-cut: we must embrace a position that opposes the sort of religious fundamentalism that drives this new terrorism that confrnts us, whether it is Islamic or Christian, foreign or native, or any other fundamentalism [one to watch out for is Hindu fundamentalism -- very dangerous right now]; a position that also opposes all violent nationalisms; a position that opposes all brutal imperialisms, and that means US imperialism in particular since that is the only viable imperialism that is operating today. Etc etc etc. David Antin's suggestion that it is morally indefensible to maintain an 'anti-American' position after the atrocities of Sept 11 itself has no moral validity whatsoever, as long as the 'American' position is to freely pursue its own economic and political self-interest without any regard whatsoever to its responsibility to the international community as a whole. When you look at the 'American' position with regard to the UN, and international law, treaties, etc., when you look at its utter subservience to greed-driven US business interests over against basic human decency, on all international fronts, why would you want to choose between a monster like Bin Laden and a monster like US foreign policy? Well, this is a poetics list, so I'll stop participating in this discussion. But I'll say this one last time: if the Left adheres consistently to a moral position that adamently resists all of these violent 'isms', if it adheres consistently to ethical principles that are universal [i.e., applied universally, even to those who "do not value life as much as we do', etc.], well, if, after all, the Left fights the good fight, adhering, without metaphor, to its easily intelligible though apparently not always persuasive moral principles, while that fantasmic 90% follows that inarticulate Bush into sure genocidal disaster, will it really be the Left's fault that David Antin et al. preferred to play out a disaster-movie game of chess, instead of simply doing the right thing? No, I'm not naive, David. Not at all. I think that you are. And I also think that, given the chance, you and those like you will take me down with you, as you steer your fervently hijacked plane straight down into some empty epmty field, in some metaphorically patriotic Pennsylvania [a field full of self-respect, no doubt, full like a fetid garbage dump]. George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:15:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--November 2001 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street New York City FREE Remember! Open mike on the FIRST SATURDAY of the month ONLY! Sign up EARLY on November 3! FEATURES: November 3 Ellen Dudley, Frazier Russell, Soraya Shalforoosh, Thom Ward November 10 Ross Martin, Emily Goodman November 17 Kurt Brown, Tony Gloegger, Doug Goetsch, Steve Huff, Meg Kearney, Claudia Rankine, Martha Rhodes, Kelleen Zubick November 24 Thanksgiving Weekend--No Reading For additional information, contact Michael Broder or Jason Schneiderman at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:32:14 -0700 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Organization: housepress Subject: TALONBOOKS BENEFIT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Dear friends > > Most of you are aware of the hardship and difficulty that have befallen > the small publishers of Vancouver and the entire country in the wake of the > Chapters fiasco. Our friend, Karl Siegler, the owner and publisher of > Talonbooks, who has done so much for our local writers and for the > development of a national Canadian literature is one of the publishers who > has been hit very hard. > > Karen Tallman, while speaking to Karl when he was in town for the recent > TISH@40 celebrations, learned that the situation has become so serious > that Karl and Christy actually don't know where their next month's groceries > are coming from. Karen and I both feel that we must take some immediate > action > to provide temporary relief for our friend in this serious situation. > > Karl says that there are possibilities for a future recovery, depending > upon various factors related to Talonbooks' distributor, who owes Karl a > substantial amount of money, but is also suffering from the consequences > of the Chapters fiasco, and may be on the verge of bankruptcy. > > We are asking all those who have benefitted in the past from Karl's role > as a publisher and publicist of their work to come forward and give > Talonbooks their support in this time of serious need. > > I am pledging a gift of $200 as a start for a fund through which we hope > to raise a total of at least $5000 to help Karl and Talonbooks over this > difficult time. I would like to ask all of you to help by pledging a > minimum of $100 each (more if you can afford it) and to offer loans of > larger amounts, etc., if possible. We would also like to ask all of you, > including those who we know cannot afford any kind of contribution, to > become active in letting others know and developing a wider base of > support. Every contribution counts at this time. > > Karen has agreed to open her home to a special fundraising and testimonial > dinner to be held in honour of Karl and Talonbooks on November 18, to > which all of you who are able to come are warmly invited. Please come even > if > you cannot afford to make a cash contribution. Your presence there will be a > strong token of your support for the lifelong project which Karl and > Talonbooks have carried out with such complete commitment and dedication, > as part of a nation wide movement of small Canadian publishing houses who > have supported the development of an independent and varied Canadian > literature. > > It is a scandal of atrocious proportions that the publishers of Canada > like Talonbooks and many others who have such made tremendous contributions > to > the development of Canadian literature, are now being cast aside and > driven into bankruptcy through the criminal activities of the monopolist > book > trade, with devastating consequences to workers in the literary trade, > including not only the small publishers, but also writers and independent > booksellers. The entire infrastructure which has been so painstakingly > built up over the last 40 years is under threat in this new globalised > economic environment, and a widespread movement of the literary and > intellectual community is required in order to save it, because the > government will never act unless forced to do so by a wide public outcry. > > I think all of us understand that the measures being proposed here are > only a temporary stopgap, but when a few people get together to solve a > problem, it becomes possible to develop ideas and out of ideas to develop > programs > to widen the arena of activity. > > Ideally, of course, this activity must finally involve all of the local > publishers, linked nationally with other small publishers, writers, book > distributors, booksellers, and above all readers and lovers of literature > produced in Canada. > > Please respond to these concerns, first of all by replying to the > invitation to the testimonial dinner and the request for monetary pledges. > Any comments that you send will be very welcome. > > All the best > Jamie Reid > dadababy@netcom.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:58:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Whyte Subject: WRYTING-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This list may be of interest to Poetics subscribers -- note that it has recently switched servers; here is the updated information. Ryan --- WRYTING-L is an email list for theory and writing, focusing on texts and comments presented by the participants. The list is managed out of the Department of History of Art at the University of Toronto. It is open to anyone, in or outside the University. The object is to provide a forum for writing and theory that may not fit within the confines of a particular discipline, in recognition of the recent interest in operating between and across theories and genres in the humanities and beyond. We're interested in all sorts of issues - 'avant-garde' pieces, psychoanalytical, phenomenological, or deconstructive approaches, etc. Wryting is cross-platform, cross-gender, cross-reason; it may involve embodiments of reader and writer, abstract language, and the collapse of genre. WRYTING-L stems from the older fiction-of-philosophy list, which presented work between literature and theory, fiction and poetry, philosophy and lyric, and so forth. Any discussion is welcome. Please send queries to WRYTING-L-REQUEST@listserv.utoronto.ca. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:59:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JDHollo@aol.com Subject: Jack Kerouac School job posting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Job Posting Assistant Professor of Creative Writing Department of Writing & Poetics Job Description This faculty position is responsible for the development and delivery of creative writing courses within the Department of Writing & Poetics. The proposed workload for the instructor is three courses per semester. The instructor will also mentor students, provide service to the University through committee appointments, and other faculty administrative tasks. This faculty position reports to the Chair of the Department of Writing & Poetics. Qualified candidates will possess an M.F.A. in Creative Writing; a Ph.D. is preferred. Candidates must have a sustained creative writing practice in two or more of the following areas: fiction, creative non-fiction, poetry, drama, cross-genre, or translation. Candidates must have a familiarity with contemporary trends in literary forms and genres and be able to teach a range of literary and cultural studies courses. Candidates must demonstrate a distinguished record of publication and teaching. Experience in contemplative practice desirable. An ability and desire to work with people of all backgrounds is essential. This position is a full-time, exempt position with benefits and will begin August 1, 2001. The starting salary range is $27,500 to $30,000 commensurate with qualifications and experience. Naropa University is actively engaged in creating an inclusive, diverse community and is proud to be an Equal Opportunity Employer. Qualified candidates must submit: a letter of application, vita, one page philosophy of teaching, sample syllabi, student evaluations, a sample of published creative work and/or work in progress, and four letters of reference (at least three of these must be from peers). Send completed application package to: Naropa University Department of Human Resources Attn: Dept. of Writing & Poetics Search Committee 2130 Arapahoe Avenue Boulder, CO 80302 (Fax) 303-245-4634 (E-Mail) employment@naropa.edu Naropa University Department of Human Resources 2130 Arapahoe Avenue, Boulder CO 80302 Voice: (303) 546-3556 Fax: (303) 245-4634 E-mail: amy@naropa.edu Date position posted: 10/8/01 Date position closes: 11/30/01 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:08:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Notes Anyone who hasn't checked out Green Bean Press in NYC should really do so, with a new website at http://www.greenbeanpress.com. Home of the bold and the new, what can we say? Buy books. Also, this in from "Reverend Doktor C. Sarian" , Subject: 0911 Things to Do: 0911 Things to do: Fly the U.S. flag Get back in the air Support your great national charity Watch what you say Give blood 0911 Things not to do: Sell short Take photos of the carnage Focus on images of the carnage Suggest 0911 was anything but an unprovoked sneak attack by madmen Sympathize with the nation's enemies Play Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds Be suspicious looking Protest war ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:26:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Fiona Maazel Subject: party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PLEASE FORWARD RELEASE PARTY FOR POST ROAD #3 Friday, November 2; 5-7 PM 288 (aka Tom & Jerry) 288 Elizabeth Street 212-260-5045 www.webdelsol.com/Post_Road -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:16:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce By Stan Goff http://www.narconews.com/goff1.html I'm a retired Special Forces Master Sergeant. That doesn't cut much for those who will only accept the opinions of former officers on military matters, since we enlisted swine are assumed to be incapable of grasping the nuances of doctrine. But I wasn't just in the army. I studied and taught military science and doctrine. I was a tactics instructor at the Jungle Operations Training Center in Panama, and I taught Military Science at West Point. And contrary to the popular image of what Special Forces does, SF's mission is to teach. We offer advice and assistance to foreign forces. That's everything from teaching marksmanship to a private to instructing a Battalion staff on how to coordinate effective air operations with a sister service. Based on that experience, and operations in eight designated conflict area from Vietnam to Haiti, I have to say that the story we hear on the news and read in the newspapers is simply not believable. The most cursory glance at the verifiable facts, before, during, and after September 11th, does not support the official line or conform to the current actions of the United States government. But the official line only works if they can get everyone to accept its underlying premises. I'm not at all surprised about the Republican and Democratic Parties repeating these premises. They are simply two factions within a single dominant political class, and both are financed by the same economic powerhouses. My biggest disappointment, as someone who identifies himself with the left, has been the tacit acceptance of those premises by others on the left, sometimes naively, and sometimes to score some morality points. Those premises are twofold. One, there is the premise that what this de facto administration is doing now is a "response" to September 11th. Two, there is the premise that this attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon was done by people based in Afghanistan. In my opinion, neither of these is sound. To put this in perspective we have to go back not to September 11th, but to last year or further. A man of limited intelligence, George W. Bush, with nothing more than his name and the behind-the-scenes pressure of his powerful father-a former President, ex-director of Central Intelligence, and an oil man-is systematically constructed as a candidate, at tremendous cost. Across the country, subtle and not-so-subtle mechanisms are put into place to disfranchise a significant fraction of the Democrat's African- American voter base. This doesn't come out until Florida becomes a battleground for Electoral College votes, and the magnitude of the story has been suppressed by the corporate media to this day. In a decision so lacking in legitimacy, the Supreme Court will neither by-line the author of the decision nor allow the decision to ever be used as a precedent, Bush v. Gore awards the presidency of the United States to a man who loses the popular vote in Florida and loses the national popular vote by over 600,000. This de facto regime then organizes a very interesting cabinet. The Vice President is an oil executive and the former Secretary of Defense. The National Security Advisor is a director on the board of a transnational oil corporation and a Russia scholar. The Secretary of State is a man with no diplomatic experience whatsoever, and the former Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The other interesting appointment is Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense. Rumsfeld is the former CEO of Searle Pharmaceuticals. He and Cheney were featured as speakers at the May, 2000, Russian-American Business Leaders Forum. So the consistent currents in this cabinet are petroleum, the former Soviet Union, and the military. Based on the record of Daddy Bush, in all his guises, and the general trajectory of US foreign policy as far back as the Carter Administration, I feel I can reasonably conclude that Middle Eastern and South Asian fossil fuels are one of their major preoccupations. Not just because this klavern has some very direct financial interests in fossil fuel, but because they surely know that worldwide oil production is peaking as we speak, and will soon begin a permanent and precipitous decline that will completely change the character of civilization as we know it within 20 years. Even the left seems to be in deep denial about this, but the math is available. And, no, alternative energies and energy technologies will not save us. All the alternatives in the world can not begin to provide more than a tiny fraction of the energy base now provided by oil. This makes it more than a resource, and the drive to control what's left more than an economic competition. I further conclude that the economic colonization of the former Soviet Union is probably high on that agenda, and in fact has a powerful synergy with the issue of petroleum. Russia not only holds vast untapped resources that beckon to imperialism in crisis, it remains a credible military and nuclear challenger in the region. We have not one, but three members of the Bush de facto cabinet with military credentials, which makes the cabinet look quite a lot like a military General Staff. All this way before September 11th. Then there's the subject of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. NATO might have expected consignment to the dustbin of the Cold War after the Eastern Bloc shattered in 1991. Peace dividend and all that. But it didn't. It expanded directly into the former states of the Eastern Bloc toward the former Soviet Union, and contributed significant forces to the devastation of Iraq -a key country in the world oil market, over which control translates into the ability to manipulate oil prices. NATO is a military formation, and the United States exerts the controlling interest in it. It seemed like a form without a function, but it remedied that pretty quickly. Then when Yugoslavia refused to play ball with the International Monetary Fund, the US and Germany began a systematic campaign of destabilization there, even using some of the veterans of Afghanistan in that campaign. NATO became the military arm of that agenda-the break-up of Yugoslavia into compliant statelets, the further containment of the former Soviet Union, and the future pipeline easement for Caspain Sea oil to Western European markets through Kosovo. You see, this is important to understand, and people-even those against the war talk-are tending to overlook the significance of it. NATO is not a guarantor of international law, and it is not a humanitarian organization. It is a military alliance with one very dominant partner. And it can no longer claim to be a defensive alliance against European socialists. It is an instrument of military aggression. NATO is the organization that is now going to thrust further along the 40th parallel from the Balkans through the Southern Asian Republics of the former Soviet Union. The US military has already taken control of a base in Uzbekistan. No one is talking about how what we are doing seems to be a very logical extension of a strategy that was already in motion, and has been in motion for two decades. Once we recognize the pattern of activity designed to simultaneously consolidate control over Middle Eastern and South Asian oil, and contain and colonize the former Soviet Union, Afghanistan is exactly where they need to go to pursue that agenda. Afghanistan borders Iran, Pakistan, and even China but, more importantly, the Central Asian Republics of the former Soviet Union, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan. These border Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan borders Russia. Turkmenistan sits on the Southeastern quadrant of the Caspian Sea, whose oil the Bush Administration dearly covets. Afghanistan is necessary for two things: as a base of operations to begin the process of destabilizing, breaking off, and establishing control over the South Asian Republics, which will begin within the next 18-24 months in my opinion, and constructing a pipeline through Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan to deliver petroleum to the Asian market. The BBC was recently told by Niaz Naik, a Pakistani Foreign Secretary, that senior American officials were warning them as early as mid-July that military action for mid-October was being planned for Afghanistan. In 1996, the Department of Energy was issuing reports on the desirability of a pipeline through Afghanistan, and in 1998, Unocal testified before the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific that this pipeline was crucial to transport Caspian Basin oil to the Indian Ocean. Given this evidence that a military operation to secure at least a portion of Afghanistan has been on the table, possibly as early as five years ago, I can't help but conclude that the actions we are seeing put into motion now are part of a pre-September 11th agenda. I'm absolutely sure of that, in fact. The planning alone for operations, of this scale, that are now taking shape, would take many months. And we are seeing them take shape in mere weeks. It defies common sense. This administration is lying about this whole thing being a "reaction" to September 11th. That leads me, in short order, to be very suspicious of their yet-to-be-provided evidence that someone in Afghanistan is responsible. It's just too damn convenient. Which also leads me to wonder-just for the sake of knowing-what actually did happen on September 11th, and who actually is responsible. The so-called evidence is a farce. The US presented Tony Blair's puppet government with the evidence, and of the 70 so-called points of evidence, only nine even referred to the attacks on the World Trade Center, and those points were conjectural. This is a bullshit story from beginning to end. Presented with the available facts, any 16-year old with a liking for courtroom dramas could tear this story apart like a two-dollar shirt. But our corporate press regurgitates it uncritically. But then, as we should know by now, their role is to legitimize. This cartoon heavy they've turned bin Laden into makes no sense, when you begin to appreciate the complexity and synchronicity of the attacks. As a former military person who's been involved in the development of countless operations orders over the years, I can tell you that this was a very sophisticated and costly enterprise that would have left what we call a huge "signature". In other words, it would be very hard to effectively conceal. So there's a real question about why there was no warning of this. That can be a question about the efficacy of the government's intelligence apparatus. That can be a question about various policies in the various agencies that had to be duped to orchestrate this action. And it can also be a question about whether or not there was foreknowledge of the event, and that foreknowledge is being covered up. To dismiss this concern out of hand as the rantings of conspiracy nuts is premature. And there is a history of this kind of thing being done by national political bosses, including the darling of liberals, Franklin Roosevelt. The evidence is very compelling that the Roosevelt Administration deliberately failed to act to stop Pearl Harbor in order to mobilize enough national anger to enter the World War II. I have no idea why people aren't asking some very specific questions about the actions of Bush and company on the day of the attacks. Follow along: Four planes get hijacked and deviate from their flight plans, all the while on FAA radar. The planes are all hijacked between 7:45 and 8:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time. Who is notified? This is an event already that is unprecedented. But the President is not notified and going to a Florida elementary school to hear children read. By around 8:15 AM, it should be very apparent that something is terribly wrong. The President is glad-handing teachers. By 8:45, when American Airlines Flight 11 crashes into the World Trade Center, Bush is settling in with children for his photo ops at Booker Elementary. Four planes have obviously been hijacked simultaneously, an event never before seen in history, and one has just dived into the worlds best know twin towers, and still no one notifies the nominal Commander in Chief. No one has apparently scrambled any Air Force interceptors either. At 9:03, United Flight 175 crashes into the remaining World Trade Center building. At 9:05, Andrew Card, the Presidential Chief of Staff whispers to George W. Bush. Bush "briefly turns somber" according to reporters. Does he cancel the school visit and convene an emergency meeting? No. He resumes listening to second graders read about a little girl's pet goat, and continues this banality even as American Airlines Flight 77 conducts an unscheduled point turn over Ohio and heads in the direction of Washington DC. Has he instructed Chief of Staff Card to scramble the Air Force? No. An excruciating 25 minutes later, he finally deigns to give a public statement telling the United States what they already have figured out; that there's been an attack by hijacked planes on the World Trade Center. There's a hijacked plane bee-lining to Washington, but has the Air Force been scrambled to defend anything yet? No. At 9:30, when he makes his announcement, American Flight 77 is still ten minutes from its target, the Pentagon. The Administration will later claim they had no way of knowing that the Pentagon might be a target, and that they thought Flight 77 was headed to the White House, but the fact is that the plane has already flown South and past the White House no-fly zone, and is in fact tearing through the sky at over 400 nauts. At 9:35, this plane conducts another turn, 360 degrees over the Pentagon, all the while being tracked by radar, and the Pentagon is not evacuated, and there are still no fast-movers from the Air Force in the sky over Alexandria and DC. Now, the real kicker: A pilot they want us to believe was trained at a Florida puddle-jumper school for Piper Cubs and Cessnas, conducts a well-controlled downward spiral, descending the last 7,000 feet in two-and-a-half minutes, brings the plane in so low and flat that it clips the electrical wires across the street from the Pentagon, and flies it with pinpoint accuracy into the side of this building at 460 nauts. When the theory about learning to fly this well at the puddle-jumper school began to lose ground, it was added that they received further training on a flight simulator. This is like saying you prepared your teenager for her first drive on I-40 at rush hour by buying her a video driving game. It's horse shit! There is a story being constructed about these events. My crystal ball is not working today, so I can't say why. But at the least, this so-called Commander-in-Chief and his staff that we are all supposed to follow blindly into some ill-defined war on terrorism is criminally negligent or unspeakably stupid. And at the worst, if more is known or was known, and there is an effort to conceal the facts, there is a criminal conspiracy going on. Certainly, the Bush de facto administration was facing a confluence of crises from which they were temporarily rescued by this event. Whether they played a sinister role or not, there is little doubt that they have at the very least opportunistically pounced on this attack: - - to overcome their lack of legitimacy, - - to shift the blame for the encroaching recession from capitalism to the September 11th terror attack, - - to legitimize their pre-existing foreign policy agenda, - - to establish and consolidate repressive measures domestically and silence dissent. In many ways, September 11th pulled the Bush cookies out of the fire. And gave the Bush team the green light to begin constructing a long-term scenario within which to establish fascistic control measures at home and abroad as a citadel for the ruling class in the catastrophic conjuncture that we are entering based on the end of oil. This elephant in the living room is being studiously ignored. In fact, the domestic repression has already begun, officially and unofficially. It's kind of a latter day McCarthyism. I participated in a teach-in at Chapel Hill, North Carolina, on the 17th of September, and though not a single person on the panel excused or justified the attacks, and every person there offered either condolences and prayers for the victims, we were excoriated within two days as "enemies of America." Yesterday an op-ed called for my deportation (to where, one can only guess). Now Herr Ashcroft is fast tracking the biggest abrogation of US civil liberties since the so-called anti-terrorism legislation after the Oklahoma City bombing - which by the way hasn't resulted in anti-terrorism but in the acceleration of the application of the racist death penalty. The FBI has defined terrorist groups not by whether any given group has ever acted as terrorists, but by their beliefs. Some socialists and anti-globalization groups have already been identified by name as terrorist groups, even though there is not a single shred of evidence that they have ever participated in any criminal activity. It reminds me of the Smith Act that was finally declared unconstitutional, but only after a hell of a lot of people served a hell of a long time in jail for the crime of thinking. I think this also points to yet another huge problem that the Bush regime was facing. Worldwide resistance to the whole so-called neoliberal agenda, which is a prettied up term for debt-leverage imperialism. While debt and the threat of sanctions has been used to coerce nations in the periphery, we have to understand that the final guarantor of compliance remains military action. For a global economic agenda, there is always a corresponding political and military agenda. The focal point of these actions in the short term is Southern Asia, but they have already scripted this as a worldwide and protracted fight against terrorism. It's far better than drug wars as a rationalization, and the drug war thing was being discredited in any case. Leftists are regaining power and popularity in Venezuela, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Brazil, and Argentina. Cuba has gained immense prestige over the last few years. The empire is beginning to unravel. We can hardly justify intervention in these places by saying they are not toeing the economic line by allowing the absolute domination of their societies by transnational corporations. That exposes the agenda. So we simply claim they are supporting terrorism. It's for all these reasons I say the left has missed the boat on this one, by allowing them to get away with rushing past the question of who did what on September 11th. If the official story is a lie, and I think the circumstantial case is strong enough to stay with this question, then we really do need to know what happened. And we need to understand concretely what the motives of this administration are. And we need to understand more than just their immediate motives, but where the larger social forces that underwrite our situation right now are headed. I do not think this administration is engaged in the deliberative process of a political grouping that is on top of their game. They are putting together some very deliberative technical solutions in response to a larger situation that it slipping rapidly out of their control. Like clear cutting. There's a very smart technology being employed to do a very dumb thing. What they are responding to is not September 11th, but the beginning of a permanent and precipitous decline in worldwide oil production, the beginning of a deep and protracted worldwide recession, and the unraveling of the empire. This brings me to a point about what all this means for Americans' security, which they are perfectly justified to worry about. The actions being prepared by this administration will not only not enhance our security, it will significantly degrade it. Military action against many groups across the globe, which is what the administration is telling us quite openly they are planning to do, will put a lot of backs against the wall. That can't be very secure. The concept of war being touted here is a violation of the principles of war on several counts, and will inevitably lead to military catastrophes, if you're inclined to view this from a position of moral and political neutrality. And the people who are now in possession of half the world's remaining oil reserves are subject to destabilization for which we can't even pretend to predict the consequences-but loss of access to critical energy supplies is certainly within the realm of possibility. Worst of all, we will be destabilizing Pakistan, a nuclear power in an active conflict with its neighbor, and we will be provoking Russia, another nuclear power. The security stakes don't get any higher, and Americans can ill afford to ignore nukes. And I think that this domestic agenda is a tremendous threat to the security of anyone who is critical of the government or their corporate financiers, and we already know that the real threats are against populations that can easily be scapegoated as the domestic crisis deepens. There is a very real threat right now of creeping fascism in this country, and that phenomenon requires its domestic enemies. Historically those enemies have included leftists, trade unionists, and racially and nationally oppressed sectors. This whole "state of emergency" mentality is already being used to quiet the public discourses of anti-racism, of feminism, of environmentalism, and of both socialism and anarchism. And while there is token resistance by officials to anti-Muslim xenophobia, the stereotypical images have saturated the media, and the government is already beginning to openly reinstate racial profiling. It is only a short step from there to go after other groups. We have long been prepared by the ideologies of overt and covert racism, and racism as both institution and corresponding psychology in the United States is nearly intractable. It's for all these reasons that I say emphatically that we can not accept anything from this administration; not their policies nor their bullshit stories. What they are doing is very, very dangerous, and the time to fight back against them, openly, is right now, before they can consolidate their power and their agenda. Once they have done that, our job becomes much more difficult. The left, if it has the capacity to self-organize out of its oblivion, needs to understand its critical roles here. We have to play the role of credible, hard-working, and non-sectarian partners in a broader peace-movement. We have to study, synthesize, and describe our current historical conjuncture. And we have to prepare leadership for the decisive conflict that will emerge to first defeat fascism then take political power. Rosa Luxemburg's words are truer than ever right now. We are not faced with a choice between socialism and capitalism, but socialism or barbarism. And what we can least afford are denial and timidity. Stan Goff http://www.narconews.com/goff1.html I strongly recommend, for anyone who wants to find further background material on the issues herein check out the websites at dieoff.org, emperors-clothes.com, and globalcircle.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:24:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ontologicalnews@MINDSPRING.COM from: ontologicalnews@mindspring.com subject: A Letter from Richard Foreman We are starting a new email list for the Ontological-Hysteric Theater. I founded the Ontological-Hysteric in 1968 to support and innovative and experimental forms of theater. Since then, we have been recognized as one of the most important and consistently provocative theater companies in the nation, producing not only my own works but also those of select resident artists and sponsoring a number of summer festivals including the Obie-Award winning Blueprint Series. The Ontological Theatre is located at St. Marks Church at 131 East 10th Street in the East Village. Our next production is Maria del Bosco starting on December 27, 2001. We would like to include you on our e-mail list. This list will be used as a way to notify you about events at the Ontological-Hysteric Theater including forthcomings productions, the Downstairs Series (readings of new works), and other festivals and events throughout the year. And from time to time we may be able to make special discount offers on our productions for our email list only. We also we will updating you about a newly expanded Ontological-Hytseric Theater website, currently under construction. In addition, we may occasionally send you info on other performances and events we find interesting, but we will not distribute your address without your permission. If you are interested in being on our mailing list, please reply to this email and tell us you would like to be on our list. And please forward this message to other people or lists that might be interested. Thank You, Richard Foreman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:12:57 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: trame ouest Subject: Invitation =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E0?= une lecture le Mercredi 14 Novembre Galerie Alain Oudin - Paris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A l'occasion de la sortie de K . o r t ( O R ) Tu(R) & textes de Philippe Boisnard, accompagnés de 10 dessins couleurs de Anne van der Linden, préface Mehdi Belhaj Kacem Les éditions trame ouest et Alain Oudin vous invitent à un vernissage-lecture de 19 H à 21 H Galerie Alain Oudin (58 rue Quincampoix - Paris - 75004 - 0142718365) Seront exposés les dessins de Anne van der Linden qui constituent les illustrations de K.or t(OR) Tu(R)& PrOGramme : Présentation de Mehdi Belhaj Kacem 1 ère Lecture : Christophe Manon 2nde Lecture : Philippe Boisnard 3ème lecture : Antoine Dufeu 4ème lecture : Ferdinand Gouzon ____________________________________________________ Pour tout renseignement : Editions trame ouest - 22 rue Pasteur - 62000 Arras - tel : 03 21 23 40 80 A l'enseigne des Oudin - 58 rue Quincampoix - 75004 Paris - 01 42 71 83 65 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:43:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Peace in Our Time In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" David: One very serious caveat: >At the >same time the US has until recently moved very cautiously with the >Northern Alliance. They are probably no better than the Taliban, >though this is of no great concern to the US. The governing maxim of >diplomacy and war is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. On this principle the US has been very consistent in choosing to back the worst possible alternatives--Somoza, Castillo Armas, Noriega, Papa Doc, Saddam Hussein, the Shah, you know the list. My guess is that somewhere in the State Department there's a bunch of apparatchiks who think that an unpopular government will be more dependent on us for survival, and that that will maintain the conditions we want. But it hasn't worked. The problem isn't with realpolitik per se but with how short-sightedly it's applied. So in the short term in each case the US has gained some regional stability and protection of US assets. In the medium to long range it's cost us dearly. I would guess that our plotting the overthrow of the Taliban began long before Sept. 11th, and I would further guess that we really do care about Afghanistan, and not because of oil or poppies. In a chaotic region where our alliances are fragile in the extreme a government dependent upon us would serve as a warning to the other governments in the region. Even during the cold war we had no direct interest in whether a pro-Soviet regime reigned in Kabul--there was very little likelihood of Communist takeovers in the region. But the Soviet presence if it had succeeded would have exerted a restraining pressure on our real or potential allies. Mark At 11:42 AM 10/24/2001 -0700, david antin wrote: >I have no trouble understanding the distaste of so many people on the >list for the policies and rhetoric of the Bush government and to a >great extent I share it. But I don't understand the fantasy of some >kind of peaceful resolution with our enemies in the Islamic world. A >murderous, suicidal attack was launched against the city of New York >by a terrorist group who have no interest in peace with the United >States. What they appear to be aiming at is a rallying of Islamic >discontents -- of which there are many with real reasons for their >discontent -- around a flag of religious reform. They've said so and >I think you have to take their word for it. What they want is a >jehad against the modern secular world, of which United States is the >foremost exponent. They haven't done well in the modern world. >They've been robbed by their own rulers as well as by colonial powers >contending for trade routes or oil. And what the terrorist leaders >like bin Laden appear to be trying to do is to show that devotion to >a religious cause by just a few true believers can cause chaos among >the infidel. If the present anthrax attacks are shown to be part of >the bin Laden terror campaign, it would add support to this view, >because these attacks are more panic inducing than seriously >damaging. If his people get away with their attacks and there is no >powerful counter response, they will gain prestige for their >accomplishment, acquire new recruits and repeat their attacks. If >they are counter-attacked and survive, they'll be admired as heroes >by the same group of discontents,gain recruits and attack again. The >only option is a counterattack that they don't survive or survive >with so much damage that it inhibits their abilities to strike again. >There is no peace option. By contrast, Israel and the Palestinians >have a fairly simple peace option, not very likely in the present >circumstance, but real nonetheless. An Israeli withdrawal from the >territories and a relocation of the settlements that allows an >integral Palestinian state would go a long way to resolving the >intifada. That is of course the last thing the terrorists would want. > >But is the attack on Afghanistan the kind of counter-attack that >makes sense? Until the attack on the World Trade Center, the US >exhibited no special interest in overthrowing the Taliban. The >suggestion that the attack on Afghanistan is about oil is ridiculous. >It is almost as likely that we're after their poppy crop. The attack >on the Taliban is a retaliation against a government that "harbors >and trains terrorists", and to the degree that the attack is >seriously functional, it will destroy bin Laden's training centers >and much of his personnel. This may or may not be reasonably >successful, but the main effect is to make clear to other governments >that it will cost dearly to support bin Laden or his like. At the >same time the US has until recently moved very cautiously with the >Northern Alliance. They are probably no better than the Taliban, >though this is of no great concern to the US. The governing maxim of >diplomacy and war is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But a >serious mitigating condition is the hostilitu of the American >"friend," Pakistan, to the Northern Alliance. By the same maxim, the >enemy of our friend is our enemy. At the least, this has made us wary >of the Northern Alliance. And Pakistan's situation is precarious. It >has nuclear weapons and a restless pro-Taliban minority. So the US, >if the rumors regarding this are reliable, has apparently even been >considering Taliban participation in a new Afghan coalition >government after the present government is overthrown. Is this nice? >Is this just? Is it desirable? The question is absurd. It is >Realpolitik. Some list writers have confidently assured me that such >a government must fail because the US will have invented it. Maybe >so, but the US contributed mightily to the invention of the Taliban, >and they've already lasted too long. As for the prolonged bombing,it >doesn't seem functional. There can hardly have been a sufficient >number of military targets for so long a bombing campaign, and every >extra day of bombing will produce more innocent civilian casualties. >If the Bush government insists on an overt action to get bin Laden >and destroy his recruits, they'll have to send in ground troops and >go after them. This may be somewhat useful. But the real action will >still be an international covert counter-intelligence operation >against the sabotage networks. Either we kill them off or they will >continue to produce intermittent havoc. And to argue that we won't >get all of them and therefore should do nothing is absurd. When your >house is infested with mice, you kill off as many as you can and they >disappear for a while. When they reappear, you go after them again. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:19:47 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: by way of intro In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Damian, have a look at: Bruhn, Siglin. Musical ekphrasis : composers responding to poetry and painting. Hillsdale, NY : Pendragon Press, 2000. and Text-sound texts / edited by Richard Kostelanetz. -- 1st Morrow Quill paperback ed.New York : Morrow, 1980 good luck with your project. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:13:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios.kozaitis@VERIZON.NET Subject: Re: David Antin: A Response In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:39 PM 10/28/2001, you wrote: >As for me, the task of the Left is intellectually and morally >clear-cut: we must embrace a position that opposes the sort of religious >fundamentalism that drives this new terrorism that confrnts us, whether it is >Islamic or Christian, foreign or native, or any other fundamentalism [one to >watch out for is Hindu fundamentalism -- very dangerous right now]; a >position that also opposes all violent nationalisms; a position that opposes >all brutal imperialisms, and that means US imperialism in particular since >that is the only viable imperialism that is operating today. Etc etc etc. George, That sounds rather reactionary. Where is a vision or an alternative plan? Critique only will bring the same old critique, "You have nothing to provide in terms of answers. You only criticize. It is easy to criticize." What about vision? Should poets not provide some vision? --Ak ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:22:50 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Bianchi" To: Sent: 24 October 2001 01:58 Subject: Re: Israel | I think that the vision of Israel has real value. Where they went wrong is | when they began to forget where they came from. While I am not a total | Zionist I think that the fact that the Jews do a have a safe haven is | important. They also forgot where the Palestinians came from & they don't seem that safe to me _real value_ and _important_ to whom? *Also, I don't think you should move from _Israel_ to _the Jews_. It isn't the same thing L | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Maria Damon" | To: | Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 5:19 PM | Subject: Re: Israel | | | > i for one would be happy to airlift all Jews --and anyone else who'd like | > to come along --in Israel to the united states and *then* allow the US to | > "abandon Israel." but i don't think they'd all want to come. Israel was | > an experiment that does not seem to have worked, but before abandoning it | > there must be some situation whereby Jews can live in safety. | > | > At 2:28 AM +0100 9/29/01, Lawrence Upton wrote: | > >----- Original Message ----- | > >From: "Kenneth M. Dauber" | > >To: | > >Sent: 28 September 2001 21:02 | > >Subject: Israel | > > | > > | > >| The only thing everybody seems to agree on is that, whatever cause it | has | > >| been in leading to the attacks of September 11, the United States' | policy | > >| in relation to Israel needs to be changed. It is hard, however, to | > >| understand what, in justice, this means. | > > | > >No, it's very easy... | > > | > >for the rest of what you say, I got an uneasy sense of deja vu.I'm sure I | > >have read all that before. Many times. Many many times | > > | > >| and what Arafat rejected | > >| by launching his second intifada, without so much as a negotiation for | a | > >| better deal. | > > | > >Well, that's the word from Israel. Me, I say maybe. I'd also say that the | > >Palestinians could do a lot better than Arafat and what he may or may not | do | > >does not alter the injustice of their situation. I mean I don't judge | > >USAmericans by their Presidents and they get some kind of choice while | > >there's no real choice for the Palestinians; and I'd be totally pissed | off | > >if you judged me on the basis of Tony Blair | > > | > > We need to be reminded that a Palestinian state alongside of | > >| Israel was what all the Arab nations rejected in '48, | > > | > >& we need to be reminded that the Israeli state had no business being | there; | > >it was a cuckoo | > > | > >But Israel is very strong, courtesy in part of USA and to a lesser extent | UK | > > | > >As a result, many but not all, I agree, have conceded the existence of | > >Israel, but that's a response to its power not its legitimacy... in | addition | > >there now could be no justice if those who have been born since the | > >establishment of the state of israel were just uprooted | > > | > >BUT bringing up the resistance post 1948 is not relevant. of course the | > >arabs resisted. What would you expect them to do? Now there is a desire | for | > >a settlement on the basis of the internationally-agreed borders. It | doesn't | > >look as though Israel wants to settle... I'd raise the internationally | > >agreed borders and that 200000 squatters the wrong side of it | > > | > >| they controlled all of the West Bank and Gaza, where they preferred | > >keeping | > >| the Palestinians in miserable refugee camps to a genuine Palestinian | > >| homeland, | > > | > >excuse me? They had a genuine homeland. It was full of people who had | > >immigrated from all over the world in defiance of the decision of those | who | > >ruled Palestine until 1948 and later on the basis of race | > > | > >The American and Australian first peoples have been blamed for their own | > >misery which had been visited upon them by invading foreigners | > > | > >resulting in another war when Israel rejected Nasser's call to | > >| "push them to the sea"; and it is what Arafat continues to reject, both | > >| overtly and by refusing to reign in the absolutely rejectionist | Hizbollah | > > | > >rein in... I doubt he can; but that has nothing to do with the wrongness | of | > >the theft of Palestinian land. Nor is it fair to keep quoting only the | most | > >extreme statements. A few weeks ago we had a report here with the most | awful | > >frightening things being shouted by Israelis about Arabs - but one | doesn't | > >assume that represents all their views all the time | > > | > >What Nasser shouted at time of war needs to be read in that context. | > > | > >| and Hamas, who, also overtly, say they want no Jews living anywhere | from | > >| the Jordan to the Mediterranean. | > > | > >which is not justifiable; but one can see how they came to that state of | > >mind | > > | > >| It's convenient to blame Israel for the state of Arab and Palestinian | > >| suffering in the Middle East and to romanticize Arafat as a freedom | > >| fighter. | > > | > >those are two quite separate things and it confuses the issue to mix them | up | > > | > > But even in relation to their own people, Arafat and the | > >| Palestinian Authority have behaved like a bunch of thugs an crooks, | > >| squirreling away into Swiss bank accounts the millions upon millions of | > >| dollars that have poured into them from the United States, as a result | of | > >| the Oslo accords, and from the Arab oil nations, instead of using them | to | > >| create a Palestinian economy, and preventing almost any freedom of | dissent | > >| with repression and murder. | > > | > >I get that deja vu again. You haven't mentioned Sabra and Shatila... and | > >Southern Lebanon... using "the millions upon millions of dollars that | have | > >poured into [Israel] from the United States" | > > | > >| Let the PA's praise as martyrs of suicide blowing up of restaurants | and | > >| discotechs stop; let the PA's state media stop demonizing Israelis as | they | > >| do in the most conventional anti-Jewish fashion (pictures of Jews with | > >long | > >| noses and all); | > > | > >*state media? yes, I think they should declare a state; and a capital | > > | > > let Arafat start telling his people, in Arabic, that they | > >| must accept an independent Israel as a now and forever fact, whether | they | > >| like it or not; | > > | > >"Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I | given | > >unto you, as I said unto Moses. | > >4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the | river | > >Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward | the | > >going down of the sun, shall be your coast. | > >5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of | thy | > >life " | > > | > >One of the most attractive things about US culture is the racial melting | pot | > >and I am confused by USAmericans who will both see that as positive in | their | > >own country and yet resist the concept in Palestine with such | > >self-destructive passion | > > | > > | > >L | > | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:23:46 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Peace in Our Time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "david antin" To: Sent: 24 October 2001 18:42 Subject: Peace in Our Time | The | suggestion that the attack on Afghanistan is about oil is ridiculous. Why? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:23:20 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Italian Futurism and war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Bianchi" To: Sent: 24 October 2001 02:03 Subject: Italian Futurism and war | I think that this response | is justified. Just as our fight against Germany and Japan was justified. | How else should we respond? I'll come back to that | These people attacked and killed 6000 people. Which people? Not the people being bombed and killed. We are told that someone called bin Laden is responsible and that there is evidence supporting that but that we may not see it Why not? We are told that the war is to bring him to justice and the operation is called _Infinite Justice_ Then we are told that it will be good enough to kill him, by which time the operation is called _Enduring Freedom_ and the war aims have changed Justice for whom? Freedom for whom? Will there be any justice for anyone if we accede to people we have never met being executed without trial because some spook says they are a terrorist It's not as if the spooks have a particularly good record of being accurate | Do I want innocent people killed? Of course not but No _but_ about it. If you don't want innocent people killed, why are you sanctioning it? someone needs to tell me | what we should do? No, they don't. *You need to consider the logic of killing innocent people because we are not able to catch the person responsible for Sep 11 The responsibility to explain is upon those killing innocents and those supporting them, not on those opposing murder I was in the village the other day and there was this | protest against "war"but what is the right response to being attacked? It varies. In a situation in which you don't actually know who attacked you and the person you suspect has hidden themselves, it might be best to try to behave in a way least likely to attract another attack until things change Coming back to your first question, which I have really already answered, we are not inanimate objects, which respond predictably. We can choose to do the unexpected. We have imagination. I think that USA is more afflicted than UK by the belief that there is a fix for everything, but we are both afflicted by it Some things do not have a fix How should we respond? Sensibly and ethically L | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Maria Damon" | To: | Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 4:14 PM | Subject: UN anti-war petition | | | > > > | > > > As a result of the day of terror on Tuesday September 11 and that left | > > > the Twin Towers of New York and the Pentagon of Washington D.C. | > > > destroyed the United States may be about to declare war. The New York | > > > Times stated that, because the attack it is not only against the | U.S.A. | > > > but against all of civilization, ".. It is necessary to identify to | the | > > > countries that support the terrorist movements because it is there | that | > > > the true war will be directed." | > > > | > > > The chief of the Arab newspaper Al-Quds, with headquarters in London, | > > > said that the Islamic terrorist Ussama Bin Laden had had noted three | > > > weeks ago that it planned to carry out "an important" attack against | > > > American interests. | > > > | > > > Karen Huges, who advises President Bush, assured us at a press | > > > conference that the country has the means to guarantee national | > > > security. What the U.S.A may feel compelled to do may result in very | > > > lamentable reprisals against the Islamic world. | > > > | > > > However, the state of Alert that United States maintains, is not | without | > > > good reason. The American people are very indignant and are requesting | > > > justice somehow... and a reprisal for their dead siblings. | > > > | > > > Today we are in a point in imbalance in the world and are moving | toward | > > > what may be the beginning of a THIRD WORLD WAR. | > > > | > > > If your are against this possibility, the UN is gathering signatures | to | > > > avoid this tragic world event. Please COPY this e-mail in a new | message, | > > > sign at the end of the list, and send it to all the people that you | know. | > > > | > > > If you receive this list with more than 500 names signed, please send | a | > > > copy of the message to : | > > > | > > > unicwash@unicwash.org | > > > | > > > | > > 000001&a=c2 | > > > | > > > 2efadf5ca80b31c2414e90f2fa29dc&mailto=1&to=unicwash@unicwash.org& | > > > msg=MSG1002 | > > > | > > > Even if you decide not to sign, please consider forwarding the | petition | > > > on instead of eliminating | > > > | > > > | > > > 2) Laurence COMPARAT, Grenoble,France | > > > | > > > 3) Philippe MOTTE, Grenoble, France | > > > | > > > 4) Jok FERRAND, Mont St Martin, France | > > > | > > > 5) Emmanuelle PIGNOL, St Martin d'Heres,FRANCE | > > > | > > > 6) Marie GAUTHIER, Grenoble, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 7) Laurent VESCALO, Grenoble, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 8) Mathieu MOY, St Egreve, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 9) Bernard BLANCHET, Mont St Martin,FRANCE | > > > | > > > 10) Tassadite FAVRIE, Grenoble, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 11) Loic GODARD, St Ismier, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 12) Benedicte PASCAL, Grenoble, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 13) Khedaidja BENATIA, Grenoble, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 14) Marie-Therese LLORET, Grenoble,FRANCE | > > > | > > > 15) Benoit THEAU, Poitiers, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 16) Bruno CONSTANTIN, Poitiers, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 17) Christian COGNARD, Poitiers, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 18) Robert GARDETTE, Paris, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 19) Claude CHEVILLARD, Montpellier, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 20) gilles FREISS, Montpellier, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 21) Patrick AUGEREAU, Montpellier, FRANCE. | > > > | > > > 22) Jean IMBERT, Marseille, FRANCE | > > > | > > > 23) Jean-Claude MURAT, Toulouse, France | > > > | > > > 24) Anna BASSOLS, Barcelona, Catalonia | > > > | > > > 25) Mireia DUNACH, Barcelona, Catalonia | > > > | > > > 26) Michel VILLAZ, Grenoble, France | > > > | > > > 27) Pages Frederique, Dijon, France | > > > | > > > 28) Rodolphe FISCHMEISTER,Chatenay-Malabry, France | > > > | > > > 29) Francois BOUTEAU, Paris, France | > > > | > > > 30) Patrick PETER, Paris, France | > > > | > > > 31) Lorenza RADICI, Paris, France | > > > | > > > 32) Monika Siegenthaler, Bern, Switzerland | > > > | > > > 33) Mark Philp, Glasgow, Scotland | > > > | > > > 34) Tomas Andersson, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 35) Jonas Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 36) Karin Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 37) Ake Ljung, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 38) Carina Sedlmayer, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 39) Rebecca Uddman, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 40) Lena Skog, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 41) Micael Folke, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 42) Britt-Marie Folke, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 43) Birgitta Schuberth, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 44) Lena Dahl, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 45) Ebba Karlsson, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 46) Jessica Carlsson, Vaxjo, Sweden | > > > | > > > 47) Sara Blomquist, Vaxjo, Sweden | > > > | > > > 48) Magdalena Fosseus, Vaxjo, Sweden | > > > | > > > 49) Charlotta Langner, Goteborg, Sweden | > > > | > > > 50) Andrea Egedal, Goteborg, Sweden | > > > | > > > 51) Lena Persson, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 52) Magnus Linder, Umea ,Sweden | > > > | > > > 53) Petra Olofsson, Umea, Sweden | > > > | > > > 54) Caroline Evenbom, Vaxj | > > > | > > > sica Bjork, Grimsas, Sweden | > > > | > > > 57) Linda Ahlbom Goteborg, Sweden | > > > | > > > 58) Jenny Forsman, Boras, Sweden | > > > | > > > 59) Nina Gunnarson, Kinna, Sweden | > > > | > > > 60) Andrew Harrison, New Zealand | > > > | > > > 61) Bryre Murphy, New Zealand | > > > | > > > 62) Claire Lugton, New Zealand | > > > | > > > 63) Sarah Thornton, New Zealand | > > > | > > > 64) Rachel Eade, New Zealand | > > > | > > > 65) Magnus Hjert, London, UK | > > > | > > > 67) Madeleine Stamvik, Hurley, UK | > > > | > > > 68) Susanne Nowlan, Vermont, USA | > > > | > > > 69) Lotta Svenby, Malmoe, Sweden | > > > | > > > 70) Adina Giselsson, Malmoe, Sweden | > > > | > > > 71) Anders Kullman, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 72) Rebecka Swane, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 73) Jens Venge, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 74) Catharina Ekdahl, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 75) Nina Fylkegard, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 76) Therese Stedman, Malmoe, Sweden | > > > | > > > 77) Jannica Lund, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 78) Douglas Bratt=20 | > > > | > > > 79) Mats Lofstrom, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 80) Li Lindstrom, Sweden | > > > | > > > 81) Ursula Mueller, Sweden | > > > | > > > 82) Marianne Komstadius, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 83) Peter Thyselius, Stockholm, Sweden | > > > | > > > 84) Gonzalo Oviedo, Quito, Ecuador | > > > | > > > 85) Amalia Romeo, Gland, Switzerland | > > > | > > > 86) Margarita Restrepo, Gland, Switzerland | > > > | > > > 87) Eliane Ruster, Crans p.C., Switzerland | > > > | > > > 88) Jennifer Bischoff-Elder, Hong Kong | > > > | > > > 89) Azita Lashgari, Beirut, Lebanon | > > > | > > > 90) Khashayar Ostovany, New York, USA | > > > | > > > 91) Lisa L Miller, Reno NV | > > > | > > > 92) Danielle Avazian, Los Angeles, CA | > > > | > > > 93) Sara Risher,Los Angeles,Ca. | > > > | > > > 94) Melanie London, New York, NY | > > > | > > > 95) Susan Brownstein , Los Angeles, CA | > > > | > > > 96) Steven Raspa, San Francisco, CA | > > > | > > > 97) Margot Duane, Ross, CA | > > > | > > > 98) Natasha Darnall, Los Angeles, CA | > > > | > > > 100) James Kjelland, Evanston, IL | > > > | > > > 101) Michael Jampole, Beach Park, IL, USA | > > > | > > > 102) Diane Willis, Wilmette, IL, USA | > > > | > > > 103) Sharri Russell, Roanoke, VA, USA | > > > | > > > 104) Faye Cooley, Roanoke, VA, USA | > > > | > > > 105) Celeste Thompson, Round Rock, TX, USA | > > > | > > > 106) Sherry Stang, Pflugerville, TX, USA | > > > | > > > 107) Amy J. Singer, Pflugerville, TX USA | > > > | > > > 108) Milissa Bowen, Austin, TX USA | > > > | > > > 109) Michelle Jozwiak, Brenham, TX USA | > > > | > > > 110) Mary Orsted, College Station, TX USA | > > > | > > > 111) Janet Gardner, Dallas, TX USA | > > > | > > > 112) Marilyn Hollingsworth, Dallas, TX USA | > > > | > > > 113) Nancy Shamblin, Garland. TX USA | > > > | > > > 114) K. M. | > > > | > > > man, Houston, Texas - USA | > > > | > > > 116) Laurie Sobolewski, Warren, MI | > > > | > > > 117) Kellie Sisson Snider, Irving Texas | > > > | > > > 118) Carol Currie, Garland, Garland Texas | > > > | > > > 119) John Snyder, Garland, TX USA | > > > | > > > 120) Elaine Hannan, South Africa | > > > | > > > 121) Jayne Howes, South Africa | > > > | > > > 122) Diane Barnes, Akron, Ohio | > > > | > > > 123) Melanie Dass Moodley, Durban, SouthAfrica | > > > | > > > 124) Imma Merino, Barcelona, Catalonia | > > > | > > > 125) Toni Vinas, Barcelona, Catalonia | > > > | > > > 126) Marc Alfaro, Barcelona, Catalonia | > > > | > > > 127) Manel Saperas, Barcelona, Catalonia | > > > | > > > 128) Jordi Ribas Izquierdo, Catalonia | > > > | > > > 129) Naiana Lacorte Rodes, Catalonia | > > > | > > > 130) Joan Vitoria i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 131) Jordi Paris i Romia, Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 132) Marta Truno i Salvado, Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 133) Jordi Lagares Roset, Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 134) Josep Puig Vidal, Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 135) Marta Juanola i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 136) Manel de la Fuente i Colino,Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 137) Gemma Belluda i Ventura, Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 138) Victor Belluda i Ventur, Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 139) MaAntonia Balletbo, barcelona, Spain | > > > | > > > 140) Mireia Masdevall Llorens, Barcelona,Spain | > > > | > > > 141) Clara Planas, Barcelona, Spain | > > > | > > > 142) Fernando Labastida Gual, Barcelona,Spain | > > > | > > > 143) Cristina Vacarisas, Barcelona, Spain | > > > | > > > 144) Enric Llarch i Poyo, Barcelona,CATALONIA | > > > | > > > 145) Rosa Escoriza Valencia, Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 146) Silvia Jimenez, Barcelona, Catalonia | > > > | > > > 147) Maria Clarella, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 | > > > | > > > 148) Angels Guimera, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 | > > > | > > > 149) M.Carmen Ruiz Fernandez,Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 150) Rufi Cerdan Heredia,Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 151) M. Teresa Vilajeliu Roig,Barcelona,Catalonia | > > > | > > > 152) Rafel LLussa, Girona,Catalonia,Spain=20 | > > > | > > > 153) Mariangels Gallego Ribo,Gelida,Catalonia=20 | > > > | > > > 154) Jordi Cortadella, Gelida,Catalonia=20 | > > > | > > > 155) Pere Botella, Barcelona,Catalonia(Spain)=20 | > > > | > > > 156) Josefina Auladell Baulenas,Catalunya(Spain)=20 | > > > | > > > 157) Empar Escoin Carceller,Catalunya(Spain)=20 | > > > | > > > 158) Elisa Pla Soler, Catalunya(Spain)=20 | > > > | > > > 159) Paz Morillo Bosch, catalunya(Spain)=20 | > > > | > > > 160) Cristina Bosch Moreno, Madrid(Spain)=20 | > > > | > > > 161) Marta Puertola | > > > | > > > n | > > > | > > > 163) Joaquin Rivera (Madrid) Spain | > > > | > > > 164) Carmen Barral (Madrid) Spain | > > > | > > > 165) Carmen del Pino (Madrid) Spain | > > > | > > > 166) Asuncion del Pino (Madrid) Spain | > > > | > > > 167) Asuncion Cuesta (Madrid) Spain) | > > > | > > > 168) Ana Polo Mediavilla (Burgos)Spain=20 | > > > | > > > 169) Mercedes Romero Laredo(Burgos)Espana=20 | > > > | > > > 170) Oliva Mertinez Fernandez(Burgos)Espana=20 | > > > | > > > 171) Silvia Leal Aparicio (Burgos)Espana=20 | > > > | > > > 172) Claudia Elizabeth | > > > | > > > 173) Federico G. Pietrokovsky(C.F.)Argentina=20 | > > > | > > > 174) Naschel Prina (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 | > > > | > > > 175) Daniela Gozzi (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 | > > > | > > > 176) Paula Elisa Kvedaras(CapitalFederal)Argentina | > > > | > > > 177) Antonio Izquierdo (Valencia)Espana=20 | > > > | > > > 178) Ana Belen Perez SolsonaValencia)Espana=20 | > > > | > > > 179) Paula Folques Diago (Valencia)Espana=20 | > > > | > > > 180) Nestor Alis Pozo (Valencia)Espana=20 | > > > | > > > 181) Rafael Alis Pozo (valencia) Spain | > > > | > > > 182) Isabel Maria Martinez(Valencia)Espana=20 | > > > | > > > 183) Cristina Bernad Guerrero(Valencia)Espana=20 | > > > | > > > 184) Iria Barcia Sanchez184) Elena Barrios Barcia. | > > > Uppsala.Suecia=20 | > > > | > > > 185) Illana Ortiz Martin.Munchen.Alemania=20 | > > > | > > > 186) Santiago Rodriguez Rasero.M=FCnchen.Alemania=20 | > > > | > > > 187) David Ag=F3s D=EDaz. Pamplona. Espa=F1a | > > > | > > > 188) Juan Luis Ibarretxe. Galdakao.E.H.=20 | > > > | > > > 189) Rub=E9n D=EDez Ealo. Galdakao. E.H. | > > > | > > > 190) Marcial Rodr=EDguez Garc=EDa. Ermua. | > > > | > > > 191) Imanol Echave Calvo. SanSebastian.Spain.=20 | > > > | > > > 192) Bego=F1a OrtizdeZ=E1rateLazcano.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Spain | > > > | > > > 193) David S=E1nchezAgirregomezkorta.Gasteiz.Euskadi. | > > > | > > > 194)Alberto Ruiz DeAlda.Gasteiz.Euzkadi | > > > | > > > 195) Juan Carlos GarciaObregon.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Espa=F1a | > > > | > > > 196) Jon Aiarza Lotina.Santander.Spain=20 | > > > | > > > 197)teresa del Hoyo Rojo. Santander. | > > > | > > > 198) Celia NespralGaztelumendi.Santander. Espa=F1a | > > > | > > > 199) Pedro Mart=EDn Villamor,Valladolid.Espa=F1a.=20 | > > > | > > > 200) Victoria Arratia Mart=EDn,Valladolid,Espa=F1a=20 | > > > | > > > 201) Javi Tajadura Mart=EDn,Portugalete,Euskadi.Spain | > > > | > > > 202)Lourdes Palacios Martin, Bilbao,Spain=20 | > > > | > > > 203) Jes=FAs Avila de Grado, Madrid,Espa=F1a=20 | > > > | > > > 204) Eva Mar=EDa Cano L=F3pez. Madrid.Spain=20 | > > > | > > > 205) Emilio Ruiz Olivar, Londres, UK | > > > | > > > 206) Maru Ortega Garc=EDa delMoral,CALAHORRA,ESPA=D | > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > 207) Juan Carlos Ayala Calvo, Logro=F1o,Spain=20 | > > > | > > > 208) Roc=EDo Mu=F1oz Pino, Logro=F1o, Espa=F1a | > > > | > > > 209) Ximena Pino Burgos, Santiago,Chile=20 | > > > | > > > 210) Roberto Saldivia Quezada, Santiago,Chile | > > > | > > > 211) Paola Gonzalez Valderrama, Santiago,Chile | > > > | > > > 212) Cesar Morales Pe=F1a y Lillo, Santiago | > > > | > > > 213) Denisse Labarca Abdala , Santiago,Chile | > > > | > > > 214) Mar=EDa Paz Gonz=E1lez Garay | > > > | > > > 215) Daniela Millar Kaiser, Santiago,Chile | > > > | > > > 216) Alvaro Wigand Perales, Valdivia,Chile | > > > | > > > 217) Gladys Bustos Carrasco, Quilicura,Chile | > > > | > > > 218) Patricio Criado Rivera, Quilicura,Chile | > > > | > > > 219) Carolina Aguilar Monsalve, Valdivia,Chile | > > > | > > > 220) Carmen Silva Utrilla, Madrid, Espa=F1a | > > > | > > > 221) Martha Yolanda Rodriguez Aviles,Queretaro,Mexico | > > > | > > > 222) LAURA RODRIGUEZAVILES,COZUMEL,QUINTANAROO,MEXICO=20 | > > > | > > > 223)KATIA HAHN , MERIDA, YUCAT=C1N | > > > | > > > 224) [Sofia Gallego] Mexicali, B.C. Mexico | > > > | > > > 225)BEATRIZ CASTA=D1EDA DE CLARIOND,Monterrey,M=E9xico | > > > | > > > 227) Roc=EDo S=E1nchez Losada, M=E9xico D.F. | > > > | > > > 228) Lorenza Estand=EDa Gonz=E1lez Luna, M=E9xico D.F. | > > > | > > > 229) Gabriel Gallardo D'Aiuto,M=E9xico D.F. | > > > | > > > 230) Jos=E8 Antonio Salinas, Monterrey, N.L., Mex. | > > > | > > > 231) Laura Cantu, Mty N.L., Mex | > > > | > > > 232) Jossie Garcia, Mty N.L Mex | > > > | > > > 233) Martha V=E1zquez Gonz=E1lez, Mty, N.L.; M=E9x. | > > > | > > > 234) Olga Moreno, Monterrey, NL, Mex | > > > | > > > 235) Mariana Camargo, Pto. Vallarta, Jal; Mex. | > > > | > > > 236) Alfonso Villa, Toluca, Mexico | > > > | > > > 237) Arturo Rodriguez Reyes, Toluca, Edo Mexico,MEXICO=20 | > > > | > > > 238) Fernanda Villela, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO | > > > | > > > 239) Pilar Jim=E9nez, Caracas, VENEZUELA | > > > | > > > 240) Erika Rovelo, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO | > > > | > > > 241) ALEJANDRO LECANDA, CIUDAD DE MEXICO, MEXICO | > > > | > > > 242) Gabriela Diaz de Sandi, Cd. Mexico, Mexico | > > > | > > > 243) Jorge Bustamante Orgaz, Ciudad de M=E9xico,M=E9xico. | > > > | > > > 244) Jos=E9 Bernardo Rodr=EDguez Montes, CiudaddeMExico,MExico=20 | > > > | > > > 245) Luisa Angela Ari=F1o Pel=E1ez. Ciudad deM=E9xico,MExico. | > > > | > > > 246) Ramses Ricardo Rios Zaragoza, CD de M=E9xico | > > > | > > > 247) Rosa Mar=EDa Lamparero. Ciudad de M=E9xico. | > > > | > > > 248) Margarita Palomares . Ciudad de M=E9xico. MEXICO | > > > | > > > 249) Carlos Anaya. MEXICO | > > > | > > > 250) Enrique Garc=EDa Menes | > > > | > > > 251) Loren Walker. United States | > > > | > > > a | > > > | > > > 252) Natalie Lutz - La Ville Du Bois, France | > > > | > > > 253) Melissa Iwai - United States | > > > | > > > 254) Yukako Sunaoshi, Auckland, New Zealand | > > > | > > > 255) Michael Neill, Auckland, New Zealand | > > > | > > > 256) Anna Wirz-Justice, Basel, Switzerland | > > > | > > > 257) Irving Zucker, Berkeley, USA | > > > | > > > 258) keith oatley, toronto, canada | > > > | > > > 259) bernard schiff, toronto, canada | > > > | > > > 260) David Rothberg, Toronto, Canada | > > > | > > > 261) harald ohlendorf, toronto, canada | > > > | > > > 262) Anna Johnson, USA | > > > | > > > 263) Rachel Johnson, USA | > > > | > > > 264) Wendy Adams, USA | > > > | > > > 265) Linda Brunner , USA | > > > | > > > 266) Agustina Gallegos, Hollister, USA | > > > | > > > 267) Jemila Dwyer, Seattle, USA | > > > | > > > 268) Karen Kuest, Seattle, USA | > > > | > > > 269) Jean Sack, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 270) Shamima Moin, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 271) Anand, Chennai, India | > > > | > > > 272) Enam Ul Hoque, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia | > > > | > > > 273) Musharraf H. Khan, United Arab Emirates | > > > | > > > 274) Zahid Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 275) Rahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 276) Zahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 277) Dina Mustary, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 278) Shaonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 279) Hemonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 280) Asif Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 281) Suman SMA Islam, Dhaka, Bangladesh | > > > | > > > 282) Meena Poudel, Nepal | > > > | > > > 283) Jyoti Sanghera, India | > > > | > > > 284) Ratna Kapur, India | > > > | > > > 285)Roshni Basu, India | > > > | > > > 286)Maitreya,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 | > > > | > > > 287)Dr Jayasree,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 | > > > | > > > 288) Deepa Nair, Trivandrum, India | > > > | > > > 299) Tapas Desrousseaux, Auroville, India | > > > | > > > 300) Mita Radhakrishnan, Auroville, India | > > > | > > > 301) Gayatri Taneja, Hyderabad, India | > > > | > > > 302) Lucia Volk, Cambridge, USA | > > > 303) Tom Conry, Portland OR, USA | > > > 304) Ann Conry, Portland OR, USA | > > > | > > > 305) Mike Jung, Seattle WA, USA | > > > 306) Marie Milsten Fiedler, MN, USA | > 307) Maria Damon, MN, USA | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:45:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: bought a pup? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cris you hit the nail on the head here. At 11:49 AM +0100 10/26/01, cris cheek wrote: >Hiya, > >six weeks on we can now see that the war on 'terror' is just a pretext - >and a desirable one at that. > >The Taliban, installed with US support, isn't playing ball and this tragedy >has provided the near perfect (near perfect only in that it is an extremely >dangerous chapter of the Great Game and could yet backfire) cover to prove >even further that control of oil is paramount. That's the subtext, but it's >rapidly becoming the main read. > >Curious that there's no mention now of 'Enduring Freedom', but then it's >really Operation Secure Pipeline or Campaign Stable Conduit . . . or > >love and love >cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:59:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: looking for contemporary French poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am fluent in French and studied translation for several semesters in college, and I'm looking for some contemporary French poetry to translate. For the moment, I'd like to do this purely for recreation. But I'd like to work on something which hasn't been translated yet, in case I am successful. I know almost nothing about contemporary French poetry... really the most recent poets I've read are Appolinaire and Verlaine, except for a small anthology called "Tout le Monde se Ressemble," edited by Emmanuelle Hocquard. (Thus I know I am not qualified to translate for real-- I just want to learn the poetry and amuse myself by attempting to translate.) I'm interested in reading (and possibly translating) avant garde or experimental work. I did some translations of Baudelaire several years ago (they were on someone's web site about French Decadence, which I only discovered by searching my name on the web!), but that's not what I'm in the mood for now (i.e. I don't want regular stanzas with a fixed line length). I don't even know the poetic _movements_ in Franch poetry (well not after Symbolism, Parnasse, and Surrealism), which is embarrassing. I did the French Baccalaureat during a year I spent in France, and for my French oral I presented Rimbaud and also talked about surrealism. I did well, but I don't know anything more recent... If someone could point me towards a good anthology, I'd be really grateful for the chance to repair my ignorance. The French bookstore in New York has no recent poetry at all, so I'd be looking to see enough of something that I can tell if I like it, and then I can buy the book from a French online bookstore. My big project in college was translating 50 pages of Anatole France's Penguin Island (in particular, the very funny preface doesn't appear in many English editions. And the ones that do, don't render the passages that parody different styles in a way that shows the parody...) Millie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:40:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Italian Futurism and war In-Reply-To: <000301c15c30$53468280$8f924e0c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ray: it's not even clear who "these people" are who attacked the WTC. At 10:03 PM -0400 10/23/01, Ray Bianchi wrote: >Perhaps I am a heretic on the list serve but I do not oppose the violent >response that we are making to the events of Sept 11. It is possible to >find moral >or ethical problems with many wars since WWII but I think that this response >is justified. Just as our fight against Germany and Japan was justified. >How else should we respond? These people attacked and killed 6000 people. >Do I want innocent people killed? Of course not but someone needs to tell me >what we should do? I was in the village the other day and there was this >protest against "war"but what is the right response to being attacked? >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Maria Damon" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 4:14 PM >Subject: UN anti-war petition > > >> > > >> > > As a result of the day of terror on Tuesday September 11 and that left >> > > the Twin Towers of New York and the Pentagon of Washington D.C. >> > > destroyed the United States may be about to declare war. The New York >> > > Times stated that, because the attack it is not only against the >U.S.A. >> > > but against all of civilization, ".. It is necessary to identify to >the >> > > countries that support the terrorist movements because it is there >that >> > > the true war will be directed." >> > > >> > > The chief of the Arab newspaper Al-Quds, with headquarters in London, >> > > said that the Islamic terrorist Ussama Bin Laden had had noted three >> > > weeks ago that it planned to carry out "an important" attack against >> > > American interests. >> > > >> > > Karen Huges, who advises President Bush, assured us at a press >> > > conference that the country has the means to guarantee national >> > > security. What the U.S.A may feel compelled to do may result in very >> > > lamentable reprisals against the Islamic world. >> > > >> > > However, the state of Alert that United States maintains, is not >without >> > > good reason. The American people are very indignant and are requesting >> > > justice somehow... and a reprisal for their dead siblings. >> > > >> > > Today we are in a point in imbalance in the world and are moving >toward >> > > what may be the beginning of a THIRD WORLD WAR. >> > > >> > > If your are against this possibility, the UN is gathering signatures >to >> > > avoid this tragic world event. Please COPY this e-mail in a new >message, >> > > sign at the end of the list, and send it to all the people that you >know. >> > > >> > > If you receive this list with more than 500 names signed, please send >a >> > > copy of the message to : >> > > >> > > unicwash@unicwash.org >> > > >> > > >> > 000001&a=c2 >> > > >> > > 2efadf5ca80b31c2414e90f2fa29dc&mailto=1&to=unicwash@unicwash.org& >> > > msg=MSG1002 >> > > >> > > Even if you decide not to sign, please consider forwarding the >petition >> > > on instead of eliminating >> > > >> > > >> > > 2) Laurence COMPARAT, Grenoble,France >> > > >> > > 3) Philippe MOTTE, Grenoble, France >> > > >> > > 4) Jok FERRAND, Mont St Martin, France >> > > >> > > 5) Emmanuelle PIGNOL, St Martin d'Heres,FRANCE >> > > >> > > 6) Marie GAUTHIER, Grenoble, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 7) Laurent VESCALO, Grenoble, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 8) Mathieu MOY, St Egreve, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 9) Bernard BLANCHET, Mont St Martin,FRANCE >> > > >> > > 10) Tassadite FAVRIE, Grenoble, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 11) Loic GODARD, St Ismier, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 12) Benedicte PASCAL, Grenoble, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 13) Khedaidja BENATIA, Grenoble, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 14) Marie-Therese LLORET, Grenoble,FRANCE >> > > >> > > 15) Benoit THEAU, Poitiers, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 16) Bruno CONSTANTIN, Poitiers, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 17) Christian COGNARD, Poitiers, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 18) Robert GARDETTE, Paris, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 19) Claude CHEVILLARD, Montpellier, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 20) gilles FREISS, Montpellier, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 21) Patrick AUGEREAU, Montpellier, FRANCE. >> > > >> > > 22) Jean IMBERT, Marseille, FRANCE >> > > >> > > 23) Jean-Claude MURAT, Toulouse, France >> > > >> > > 24) Anna BASSOLS, Barcelona, Catalonia >> > > >> > > 25) Mireia DUNACH, Barcelona, Catalonia >> > > >> > > 26) Michel VILLAZ, Grenoble, France >> > > >> > > 27) Pages Frederique, Dijon, France >> > > >> > > 28) Rodolphe FISCHMEISTER,Chatenay-Malabry, France >> > > >> > > 29) Francois BOUTEAU, Paris, France >> > > >> > > 30) Patrick PETER, Paris, France >> > > >> > > 31) Lorenza RADICI, Paris, France >> > > >> > > 32) Monika Siegenthaler, Bern, Switzerland >> > > >> > > 33) Mark Philp, Glasgow, Scotland >> > > >> > > 34) Tomas Andersson, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 35) Jonas Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 36) Karin Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 37) Ake Ljung, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 38) Carina Sedlmayer, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 39) Rebecca Uddman, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 40) Lena Skog, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 41) Micael Folke, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 42) Britt-Marie Folke, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 43) Birgitta Schuberth, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 44) Lena Dahl, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 45) Ebba Karlsson, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 46) Jessica Carlsson, Vaxjo, Sweden >> > > >> > > 47) Sara Blomquist, Vaxjo, Sweden >> > > >> > > 48) Magdalena Fosseus, Vaxjo, Sweden >> > > >> > > 49) Charlotta Langner, Goteborg, Sweden >> > > >> > > 50) Andrea Egedal, Goteborg, Sweden >> > > >> > > 51) Lena Persson, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 52) Magnus Linder, Umea ,Sweden >> > > >> > > 53) Petra Olofsson, Umea, Sweden >> > > >> > > 54) Caroline Evenbom, Vaxj >> > > >> > > sica Bjork, Grimsas, Sweden >> > > >> > > 57) Linda Ahlbom Goteborg, Sweden >> > > >> > > 58) Jenny Forsman, Boras, Sweden >> > > >> > > 59) Nina Gunnarson, Kinna, Sweden >> > > >> > > 60) Andrew Harrison, New Zealand >> > > >> > > 61) Bryre Murphy, New Zealand >> > > >> > > 62) Claire Lugton, New Zealand >> > > >> > > 63) Sarah Thornton, New Zealand >> > > >> > > 64) Rachel Eade, New Zealand >> > > >> > > 65) Magnus Hjert, London, UK >> > > >> > > 67) Madeleine Stamvik, Hurley, UK >> > > >> > > 68) Susanne Nowlan, Vermont, USA >> > > >> > > 69) Lotta Svenby, Malmoe, Sweden >> > > >> > > 70) Adina Giselsson, Malmoe, Sweden >> > > >> > > 71) Anders Kullman, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 72) Rebecka Swane, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 73) Jens Venge, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 74) Catharina Ekdahl, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 75) Nina Fylkegard, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 76) Therese Stedman, Malmoe, Sweden >> > > >> > > 77) Jannica Lund, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 78) Douglas Bratt=20 >> > > >> > > 79) Mats Lofstrom, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 80) Li Lindstrom, Sweden >> > > >> > > 81) Ursula Mueller, Sweden >> > > >> > > 82) Marianne Komstadius, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 83) Peter Thyselius, Stockholm, Sweden >> > > >> > > 84) Gonzalo Oviedo, Quito, Ecuador >> > > >> > > 85) Amalia Romeo, Gland, Switzerland >> > > >> > > 86) Margarita Restrepo, Gland, Switzerland >> > > >> > > 87) Eliane Ruster, Crans p.C., Switzerland >> > > >> > > 88) Jennifer Bischoff-Elder, Hong Kong >> > > >> > > 89) Azita Lashgari, Beirut, Lebanon >> > > >> > > 90) Khashayar Ostovany, New York, USA >> > > >> > > 91) Lisa L Miller, Reno NV >> > > >> > > 92) Danielle Avazian, Los Angeles, CA >> > > >> > > 93) Sara Risher,Los Angeles,Ca. >> > > >> > > 94) Melanie London, New York, NY >> > > >> > > 95) Susan Brownstein , Los Angeles, CA >> > > >> > > 96) Steven Raspa, San Francisco, CA >> > > >> > > 97) Margot Duane, Ross, CA >> > > >> > > 98) Natasha Darnall, Los Angeles, CA >> > > >> > > 100) James Kjelland, Evanston, IL >> > > >> > > 101) Michael Jampole, Beach Park, IL, USA >> > > >> > > 102) Diane Willis, Wilmette, IL, USA >> > > >> > > 103) Sharri Russell, Roanoke, VA, USA >> > > >> > > 104) Faye Cooley, Roanoke, VA, USA >> > > >> > > 105) Celeste Thompson, Round Rock, TX, USA >> > > >> > > 106) Sherry Stang, Pflugerville, TX, USA >> > > >> > > 107) Amy J. Singer, Pflugerville, TX USA >> > > >> > > 108) Milissa Bowen, Austin, TX USA >> > > >> > > 109) Michelle Jozwiak, Brenham, TX USA >> > > >> > > 110) Mary Orsted, College Station, TX USA >> > > >> > > 111) Janet Gardner, Dallas, TX USA >> > > >> > > 112) Marilyn Hollingsworth, Dallas, TX USA >> > > >> > > 113) Nancy Shamblin, Garland. TX USA >> > > >> > > 114) K. M. >> > > >> > > man, Houston, Texas - USA >> > > >> > > 116) Laurie Sobolewski, Warren, MI >> > > >> > > 117) Kellie Sisson Snider, Irving Texas >> > > >> > > 118) Carol Currie, Garland, Garland Texas >> > > >> > > 119) John Snyder, Garland, TX USA >> > > >> > > 120) Elaine Hannan, South Africa >> > > >> > > 121) Jayne Howes, South Africa >> > > >> > > 122) Diane Barnes, Akron, Ohio >> > > >> > > 123) Melanie Dass Moodley, Durban, SouthAfrica >> > > >> > > 124) Imma Merino, Barcelona, Catalonia >> > > >> > > 125) Toni Vinas, Barcelona, Catalonia >> > > >> > > 126) Marc Alfaro, Barcelona, Catalonia >> > > >> > > 127) Manel Saperas, Barcelona, Catalonia >> > > >> > > 128) Jordi Ribas Izquierdo, Catalonia >> > > >> > > 129) Naiana Lacorte Rodes, Catalonia >> > > >> > > 130) Joan Vitoria i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 131) Jordi Paris i Romia, Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 132) Marta Truno i Salvado, Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 133) Jordi Lagares Roset, Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 134) Josep Puig Vidal, Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 135) Marta Juanola i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 136) Manel de la Fuente i Colino,Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 137) Gemma Belluda i Ventura, Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 138) Victor Belluda i Ventur, Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 139) MaAntonia Balletbo, barcelona, Spain >> > > >> > > 140) Mireia Masdevall Llorens, Barcelona,Spain >> > > >> > > 141) Clara Planas, Barcelona, Spain >> > > >> > > 142) Fernando Labastida Gual, Barcelona,Spain >> > > >> > > 143) Cristina Vacarisas, Barcelona, Spain >> > > >> > > 144) Enric Llarch i Poyo, Barcelona,CATALONIA >> > > >> > > 145) Rosa Escoriza Valencia, Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 146) Silvia Jimenez, Barcelona, Catalonia >> > > >> > > 147) Maria Clarella, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 >> > > >> > > 148) Angels Guimera, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 >> > > >> > > 149) M.Carmen Ruiz Fernandez,Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 150) Rufi Cerdan Heredia,Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 151) M. Teresa Vilajeliu Roig,Barcelona,Catalonia >> > > >> > > 152) Rafel LLussa, Girona,Catalonia,Spain=20 >> > > >> > > 153) Mariangels Gallego Ribo,Gelida,Catalonia=20 >> > > >> > > 154) Jordi Cortadella, Gelida,Catalonia=20 >> > > >> > > 155) Pere Botella, Barcelona,Catalonia(Spain)=20 >> > > >> > > 156) Josefina Auladell Baulenas,Catalunya(Spain)=20 >> > > >> > > 157) Empar Escoin Carceller,Catalunya(Spain)=20 >> > > >> > > 158) Elisa Pla Soler, Catalunya(Spain)=20 >> > > >> > > 159) Paz Morillo Bosch, catalunya(Spain)=20 >> > > >> > > 160) Cristina Bosch Moreno, Madrid(Spain)=20 >> > > >> > > 161) Marta Puertola >> > > >> > > n >> > > >> > > 163) Joaquin Rivera (Madrid) Spain >> > > >> > > 164) Carmen Barral (Madrid) Spain >> > > >> > > 165) Carmen del Pino (Madrid) Spain >> > > >> > > 166) Asuncion del Pino (Madrid) Spain >> > > >> > > 167) Asuncion Cuesta (Madrid) Spain) >> > > >> > > 168) Ana Polo Mediavilla (Burgos)Spain=20 >> > > >> > > 169) Mercedes Romero Laredo(Burgos)Espana=20 >> > > >> > > 170) Oliva Mertinez Fernandez(Burgos)Espana=20 >> > > >> > > 171) Silvia Leal Aparicio (Burgos)Espana=20 >> > > >> > > 172) Claudia Elizabeth >> > > >> > > 173) Federico G. Pietrokovsky(C.F.)Argentina=20 >> > > >> > > 174) Naschel Prina (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 >> > > >> > > 175) Daniela Gozzi (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 >> > > >> > > 176) Paula Elisa Kvedaras(CapitalFederal)Argentina >> > > >> > > 177) Antonio Izquierdo (Valencia)Espana=20 >> > > >> > > 178) Ana Belen Perez SolsonaValencia)Espana=20 >> > > >> > > 179) Paula Folques Diago (Valencia)Espana=20 >> > > >> > > 180) Nestor Alis Pozo (Valencia)Espana=20 >> > > >> > > 181) Rafael Alis Pozo (valencia) Spain >> > > >> > > 182) Isabel Maria Martinez(Valencia)Espana=20 >> > > >> > > 183) Cristina Bernad Guerrero(Valencia)Espana=20 >> > > >> > > 184) Iria Barcia Sanchez184) Elena Barrios Barcia. >> > > Uppsala.Suecia=20 >> > > >> > > 185) Illana Ortiz Martin.Munchen.Alemania=20 >> > > >> > > 186) Santiago Rodriguez Rasero.M=FCnchen.Alemania=20 >> > > >> > > 187) David Ag=F3s D=EDaz. Pamplona. Espa=F1a >> > > >> > > 188) Juan Luis Ibarretxe. Galdakao.E.H.=20 >> > > >> > > 189) Rub=E9n D=EDez Ealo. Galdakao. E.H. >> > > >> > > 190) Marcial Rodr=EDguez Garc=EDa. Ermua. >> > > >> > > 191) Imanol Echave Calvo. SanSebastian.Spain.=20 >> > > >> > > 192) Bego=F1a OrtizdeZ=E1rateLazcano.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Spain >> > > >> > > 193) David S=E1nchezAgirregomezkorta.Gasteiz.Euskadi. >> > > >> > > 194)Alberto Ruiz DeAlda.Gasteiz.Euzkadi >> > > >> > > 195) Juan Carlos GarciaObregon.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Espa=F1a >> > > >> > > 196) Jon Aiarza Lotina.Santander.Spain=20 >> > > >> > > 197)teresa del Hoyo Rojo. Santander. >> > > >> > > 198) Celia NespralGaztelumendi.Santander. Espa=F1a >> > > >> > > 199) Pedro Mart=EDn Villamor,Valladolid.Espa=F1a.=20 >> > > >> > > 200) Victoria Arratia Mart=EDn,Valladolid,Espa=F1a=20 >> > > >> > > 201) Javi Tajadura Mart=EDn,Portugalete,Euskadi.Spain >> > > >> > > 202)Lourdes Palacios Martin, Bilbao,Spain=20 >> > > >> > > 203) Jes=FAs Avila de Grado, Madrid,Espa=F1a=20 >> > > >> > > 204) Eva Mar=EDa Cano L=F3pez. Madrid.Spain=20 >> > > >> > > 205) Emilio Ruiz Olivar, Londres, UK >> > > >> > > 206) Maru Ortega Garc=EDa delMoral,CALAHORRA,ESPA=D >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > 207) Juan Carlos Ayala Calvo, Logro=F1o,Spain=20 >> > > >> > > 208) Roc=EDo Mu=F1oz Pino, Logro=F1o, Espa=F1a >> > > >> > > 209) Ximena Pino Burgos, Santiago,Chile=20 >> > > >> > > 210) Roberto Saldivia Quezada, Santiago,Chile >> > > >> > > 211) Paola Gonzalez Valderrama, Santiago,Chile >> > > >> > > 212) Cesar Morales Pe=F1a y Lillo, Santiago >> > > >> > > 213) Denisse Labarca Abdala , Santiago,Chile >> > > >> > > 214) Mar=EDa Paz Gonz=E1lez Garay >> > > >> > > 215) Daniela Millar Kaiser, Santiago,Chile >> > > >> > > 216) Alvaro Wigand Perales, Valdivia,Chile >> > > >> > > 217) Gladys Bustos Carrasco, Quilicura,Chile >> > > >> > > 218) Patricio Criado Rivera, Quilicura,Chile >> > > >> > > 219) Carolina Aguilar Monsalve, Valdivia,Chile >> > > >> > > 220) Carmen Silva Utrilla, Madrid, Espa=F1a >> > > >> > > 221) Martha Yolanda Rodriguez Aviles,Queretaro,Mexico >> > > >> > > 222) LAURA RODRIGUEZAVILES,COZUMEL,QUINTANAROO,MEXICO=20 >> > > >> > > 223)KATIA HAHN , MERIDA, YUCAT=C1N >> > > >> > > 224) [Sofia Gallego] Mexicali, B.C. Mexico >> > > >> > > 225)BEATRIZ CASTA=D1EDA DE CLARIOND,Monterrey,M=E9xico >> > > >> > > 227) Roc=EDo S=E1nchez Losada, M=E9xico D.F. >> > > >> > > 228) Lorenza Estand=EDa Gonz=E1lez Luna, M=E9xico D.F. >> > > >> > > 229) Gabriel Gallardo D'Aiuto,M=E9xico D.F. >> > > >> > > 230) Jos=E8 Antonio Salinas, Monterrey, N.L., Mex. >> > > >> > > 231) Laura Cantu, Mty N.L., Mex >> > > >> > > 232) Jossie Garcia, Mty N.L Mex >> > > >> > > 233) Martha V=E1zquez Gonz=E1lez, Mty, N.L.; M=E9x. >> > > >> > > 234) Olga Moreno, Monterrey, NL, Mex >> > > >> > > 235) Mariana Camargo, Pto. Vallarta, Jal; Mex. >> > > >> > > 236) Alfonso Villa, Toluca, Mexico >> > > >> > > 237) Arturo Rodriguez Reyes, Toluca, Edo Mexico,MEXICO=20 >> > > >> > > 238) Fernanda Villela, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO >> > > >> > > 239) Pilar Jim=E9nez, Caracas, VENEZUELA >> > > >> > > 240) Erika Rovelo, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO >> > > >> > > 241) ALEJANDRO LECANDA, CIUDAD DE MEXICO, MEXICO >> > > >> > > 242) Gabriela Diaz de Sandi, Cd. Mexico, Mexico >> > > >> > > 243) Jorge Bustamante Orgaz, Ciudad de M=E9xico,M=E9xico. >> > > >> > > 244) Jos=E9 Bernardo Rodr=EDguez Montes, CiudaddeMExico,MExico=20 >> > > >> > > 245) Luisa Angela Ari=F1o Pel=E1ez. Ciudad deM=E9xico,MExico. >> > > >> > > 246) Ramses Ricardo Rios Zaragoza, CD de M=E9xico >> > > >> > > 247) Rosa Mar=EDa Lamparero. Ciudad de M=E9xico. >> > > >> > > 248) Margarita Palomares . Ciudad de M=E9xico. MEXICO >> > > >> > > 249) Carlos Anaya. MEXICO >> > > >> > > 250) Enrique Garc=EDa Menes >> > > >> > > 251) Loren Walker. United States >> > > >> > > a >> > > >> > > 252) Natalie Lutz - La Ville Du Bois, France >> > > >> > > 253) Melissa Iwai - United States >> > > >> > > 254) Yukako Sunaoshi, Auckland, New Zealand >> > > >> > > 255) Michael Neill, Auckland, New Zealand >> > > >> > > 256) Anna Wirz-Justice, Basel, Switzerland >> > > >> > > 257) Irving Zucker, Berkeley, USA >> > > >> > > 258) keith oatley, toronto, canada >> > > >> > > 259) bernard schiff, toronto, canada >> > > >> > > 260) David Rothberg, Toronto, Canada >> > > >> > > 261) harald ohlendorf, toronto, canada >> > > >> > > 262) Anna Johnson, USA >> > > >> > > 263) Rachel Johnson, USA >> > > >> > > 264) Wendy Adams, USA >> > > >> > > 265) Linda Brunner , USA >> > > >> > > 266) Agustina Gallegos, Hollister, USA >> > > >> > > 267) Jemila Dwyer, Seattle, USA >> > > >> > > 268) Karen Kuest, Seattle, USA >> > > >> > > 269) Jean Sack, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 270) Shamima Moin, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 271) Anand, Chennai, India >> > > >> > > 272) Enam Ul Hoque, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia >> > > >> > > 273) Musharraf H. Khan, United Arab Emirates >> > > >> > > 274) Zahid Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 275) Rahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 276) Zahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 277) Dina Mustary, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 278) Shaonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 279) Hemonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 280) Asif Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 281) Suman SMA Islam, Dhaka, Bangladesh >> > > >> > > 282) Meena Poudel, Nepal >> > > >> > > 283) Jyoti Sanghera, India >> > > >> > > 284) Ratna Kapur, India >> > > >> > > 285)Roshni Basu, India >> > > >> > > 286)Maitreya,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 >> > > >> > > 287)Dr Jayasree,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 >> > > >> > > 288) Deepa Nair, Trivandrum, India >> > > >> > > 299) Tapas Desrousseaux, Auroville, India >> > > >> > > 300) Mita Radhakrishnan, Auroville, India >> > > >> > > 301) Gayatri Taneja, Hyderabad, India >> > > >> > > 302) Lucia Volk, Cambridge, USA >> > > 303) Tom Conry, Portland OR, USA >> > > 304) Ann Conry, Portland OR, USA >> > > >> > > 305) Mike Jung, Seattle WA, USA >> > > 306) Marie Milsten Fiedler, MN, USA >> 307) Maria Damon, MN, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:30:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: call for participation by Muslims for docu. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, all -- Apparently these guys are looking for Muslim writers and other Muslims to participate in this project...please feel free to pass on to friends you think might be interested.... Best, Arielle > > > > > > From: kashaf.chaudhry@walltowall.co.uk (Kashaf > Chaudhry) > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am working on a 50 minute documentary > profiling the > > > lives of > > > American Muslims for the Discovery Channel. We > are going > > > to be > > > filming across the States and with Muslims of > ALL > > > backgrounds; > > > ethnic, social and cultural. > > > > > > The programme is going to be a portrait of > peoples lives > > > and aims to > > > raise the level of understanding in the States > and > > > Europe. I am > > > looking for people that can tell us their story > of what > > > it is to be > > > an American and a Muslim. We will see them at > work, rest > > > and play. > > > To do this I need to find people from all walks > of life > > > and from all > > > ethnic backgrounds in particular > African-American, Arab > > > and South > > > Asian (Indian subcontinent). They can be > stockbrokers, > > > basketball > > > players, teachers, police officers, shopkeepers > or even > > > musicians. > > > They can live in big cities, the suburbs or on > a farm. > > > The more > > > diverse the better. I know it sounds like a > > > comprehensive list but I > > > want to make sure that I get a good > representation of > > > Muslims across > > > the States. > > > > > > I am contacting you because I would be > interested to > > > find out if > > > there are any poets that are Muslim and that > you thought > > > might be > > > worth contacting. > > > > > > I am on an insane schedule and only have > approximately 7 > > > days to find > > > the above characters so I'm afraid this is an > urgent > > > request. I hope > > > that you can help me in this endeavor and look > forward > > > to your reply. > > > > > > Yours > > > > > > Kashaf Chaudhry > > > Wall to Wall Television Ltd. > > > 8-9 Spring Place, > > > Kentish Town, > > > London NW5 3ER > > > > > > Tel: 011 44 207 241 9313 > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:37:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: fly-by Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Two readings in the smoke - 10/31 7 pm Cornelia St Cafe and 11/5 7:30 pm KGB Bar - details follow Jordan Davis / Eric Gamalinda / Johnny Lorenz will read their poems @ Cornelia Street Cafe 29 Cornelia Street, NYC 10014 P: (212)989-9319 F: (212) 243-4207 October 31, 2001 7 PM November 5 Jordan Davis & Jeni Olin KGB Bar Mondays at 7:30 p.m. in the red room 85 East 4th Street (near Second Avenue) NYC 212.505.3360 Free! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:35:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: bought a pup? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >>>Campaign Stable Conduit You can repunctuate this and remove one letter to form "Campaign-Stable Condit," which the newly respectable congressman may just be again, now everyone's clean forgot about Chandra Levy. This gives credence to the theory that *he* was behind 9/11... Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:00:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: "the faculty never recovered" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/29/01 3:01:52 PM, mprejsn@LAW.EMORY.EDU writes: << gee, there is no END to the evil that the anti-war movement brought about.... think of the damage we're doing by questioning Bush's current policies! ******* from yestrerday=E2=80=99s Boston Globe: ''Honors at Harvard has just lost all meaning,'' said Henry Rosovsky, a top dean and acting president at Harvard in the 1970s and '80s. ''The bad honors is spoiling the good.'' With Harvard's new president, Lawrence Summers, focused on improving undergraduate studies and set to deliver his inaugural address this Friday, the Globe reviewed the university's academic records and internal memos over the last 50 years to analyze the rigors and rewards of a Harvard education. The documents indicate that Vietnam and the protest movements of the '60s led to an increase in lax grading campuswide, and that the faculty never recovered. Harry Lewis, the current dean of Harvard College, wrote in one e-mail that humanities professors today can't tell an A paper from a B paper, partly because of a ''collapse of critical judgment.'' >> Actually there is some small truth to this, though Harry seems a bit=20 unhinged. During the Nam war, 2S student deferments kept the youngins safe=20 from the draft. Sympathetc professors countrywide got into the habit of not= =20 failing students who should have failed, knowing that a few failing grades=20 could suddenly transfer an undergrad to the school of jungle warfare. Grade= =20 inflation was the result. Academia has never issued a serious correction,=20 but this is certainly not due solely to the war in the Nam. These days the=20 culprit is more likely to be students who do not read, and so cannot write.=20= =20 If faculty routinely failed these students, colleges would close for lack of= =20 "customers." Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:22:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Subject: Postcard Project Comments: To: UB Core Poetics Poetics Seminar , ubuweb@yahoogroups.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Postcard Project Exhibition and Reading Saturday, November 3, 2001 at 8 p.m., $3 donation/cash bar STEEL BAR Series Tri-Main Center, Suite 511, 2495 Main St., Buffalo, NY 14214 In this special, one night event, Buffalo artist Isabelle Pelissier will showcase 40 original, handmade and hand-painted metal books, featuring the work of 40 local and international poets, including: Steve McCaffrey, Alice Notley, Terrence Chiusano, Elaine Equi, Bernadette Mayer, Dan Machlin, Phillip Good, Karen Weiser, David Trinidad, Brian Stefans, Lee Ann Brown, Lisa Jarnot, Anselm Berrigan, Carrie Ann Tocci, Laird Hunt, Ike Kim, Richar= d Deming, Eleni Sikelianos Alicia Cohen, Thomas Fisher, and Edmund Berrigan, and the many Buffalo-based poets listed below. Scheduled readers include: Mike Rozendal, Jessica Smith, Barbara Cole, Jonathan Skinner, Kristen Gallagher, Mike Kelleher, Doug Manson, Tim Shaner= , Kyle Shlesinger, Nick Lawrence, Linda Russo, Tim McPeek, Chris Alexander, Aaron Armstrong Skomra, Michelle Citrin, Mike Basinski, Joel Bettridge, Sandra Guerreiro, Greg Kinzer, & Logan Esdale. =20 RELEASE INFO The Postcard Project, which began over a year ago, was the brainchild of Michael Kelleher, the editor of ELEVATOR, a local small press devoted to collaborations between artists and poets. The second such effort by ELEVATOR, the Postcard Project follows on the success of last year=B9s Box Project, a collaboration with Buffalo artist Brian Collier. That project involved thirteen local poets in a summer long project in which they each gathered 40 objects to be placed in 40 handmade, masonite boxes, and composed poems and other writings about the objects they collected. The exhibition drew a standing room only-crowd at Steel Bar last October at which several hundred dollars were raised to benefit ELEVATOR. The Postcard Project began with the mailing of the same postcard, which bor= e an image of Buffalo=B9s grain elevators, to poets around the country, asking that they write something on the back and mail it to Isabelle. When all the postcards were received, two local books projects began. The first, by Kristen Gallagher at handmade books, was to make a small, paper reproductio= n of all the postcards, and to bind them with stainless steel nuts and bolts. This is the =B3paperback edition.=B2 The second project was for Isabelle to construct forty books out of metal, and to hand paint an image of the postcard on the cover. The inspiration came from Isabelle=B9s=B9s own work. Since 1995, she has been painting a series of postcards called =B3things long seen through the eye I have in the back of my head,=B2 and working on a series of handmade artist=B9s books. In this time she has also completed an apprenticeship in metalwork. The fruits of this period are thousands of exquisite, hand-painted postcards, scores of artist=B9s books, and a studio filled with wild and exotic steel furniture and sculptures. One of these, =B3Untitled,=B2 a six-and-a-half foot steel chair-sculpture, which she constructed on a grant as part of the Artacross Borders Public Art Project, is now on permanent display in the Tri-Main Center in Buffalo. Also on hand will be many of the forty poets who collaborated on the project, who will read from the postcards as part of the evening=B9s events. The evening will be curated and hosted by Michael Kelleher. The artist=B9s books will be sold for 50 dollars apiece. All proceeds to benefit ELEVATOR= . Those interested in purchasing a book can contact Michael Kelleher at mjk@acsu.buffalo.edu, or by calling him at 716.882.8982. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:52:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 3 on ordering and disarray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = movie text 1943 There are early screen memories of _being carried_ on a 1943-1997 I have had my faults, too many of them 1948 Or thereabouts - remembering crying in the car with mot 1950 All through childhood I had to take weekly Saturday all 1950 I was given a small film projector with a crank on the 1952 I really don't have a date but wonder about my early lo 1952 I remember a wonderful British tricycle with large whee 1952 It was around this year that we moved from Reynolds Str 1955 Around this time, I had an operation to have my ears pi 1956 I heard of Elvis. I loved the word "fuck." Someone show 1956 I watched someone masturbate at camp; I was thrilled. E 1956 Later this year (or was it this year?), I masturbated c 1956-60 I cried myself to sleep, etc. I had a small box on t 1956-8 I joined the American Forestry Association (or someth 1958 J U and I were walking late at night and he thre 1959 I was probably a Junior at the Blue and White dances at 1959 I'd fall asleep dreaming of P T or earlier Ma 1960 A W was my first real girlfriend; we tri 1960 Barely made it to the senior prom with C K 1960 I just about flunked my first semester at Brown, collap 1960 I remember reaching for A's breast; I was sick and at 1960 I volunteered for secret army tests as well - checking 1960 I went to Israel for a summer, living largely in Jerusa 1960 It was around this period that I had my only "attested" 1960 It's this summer I first go to Israel and almost have a 1960 The depressions continue for the rest of my life 1960 These dates, these beginnings are obscure to me, and al 1960-1997 Sleeping and waking: insomnia goads me my entire l 1961 I almost flunked out of school. My life was a disaster. 1961-1962 My second year at Brown was miserable. I hated my 1962 I watched the side of the factory open up in the middle 1962 It was this year that I got beat up on the campus by tw 1962 On a trip through the Negev, I saw, from a distance, an 1962 Was it during this year, when I was in Israel, that my 1962 We managed to get shot at from an absurdly safe distanc 1962 was still, closed up once again. I asked my roommate wh 1962-1963 Went to Israel for a year, living mainly in Jerusa 1966 Went to Europe for the summer; met J Z who becam 1967 It's around now I'm in Europe. I met you (I forget your 1967 P G ran into the studio screaming 1967-1968 Put out three records with a group, two with ESP, 1967-1970 Did I speak of the Great Fear of country and anarc 1968 I bought a red IBM Selectric, my first real electric ty 1968 I had An,ode published by the Ws' Burning Deck Pr 1968 I lived for a summer in Minneapolis with J 1968 I think J and I were married; it was a traditional w 1969 V and I in our dismally-cathected relationship, talk 1973 At the Paris Biennale I put up "The World's Smallest Sc 1973-1974 I went to Europe with B; we lived for a month i 1974 Around this time, I remember living off and on with R 1974 I lectured all over the place, UCSD, Cal Arts, RISD (wi 1974 Logic of consciousness worked out, The Book as System o 1974 R warned me about V, that he wasn't as good a 1975 Around this period, L accompanied me at a poetry r 1975 R M and I split vowing to remain friends. It 1976-1977 I work on the Structure of Reality, a text compose 1976-1977 E and I in New York and Hartford, marry 1977 Around this date I thought that if aliens came from ano 1977 I taught for a year in Hartford, at the Hartford Colleg 1977 J was born; I was totally amazed. Everyone's start 1977 Secretly, I think I know everything; I don't know anyth 1978 E and I split, my fault through everything 1977 T fucking me, the first and only totally re 1977 The Whitney shows the tape K and I made; ther 1977-1997 Relating to J; I never see her enough; as she 1978 Remembering L, who became an erotic image / i 1978-1979 I taught for a year at the University of Californi 1980 I get involved with women who are as crazy as I am; no 1980 I saw V for one of the last times, and stopped speak 1980 The year where my writing began to coalesce; I was 37 a 1980-1982 I taught at UCLA for two years, in the art and art 1982 A and I left for Queenstown in the eastern center 1982 I left for three and a half years - to teach in Tasmani 1982 I went to Tasmania where I met A and return 1982 In Queenstown we end up at the home of a Belgian hairdr 1983 I take over the curatorial position at Nexus Contempora 1983-85 After teaching for a semester at Ontario College of 1984 At Nexus, we began the Atlanta Biennale; the first exhi 1985-6 Later Paul Celan's poetry would take off from where T 1985-87 I left Nexus, A left me, I went to University 1986 I first met D at a punk/industrial music night; he 1988 And I had never been treated so badly as I was with N 1988 I also met N while at Hallwalls; this was th 1988 I became Artistic Director at Hallways Contemporary Art 1988 I took up the Artistic Directorship of Hallwalls Contem 1989 At the end of the year, M and I left Atlanta for 1989 M and I are driving through western North Caroli 1989-91 During the years with M I had the feeling we 1991 Or so, found out the ESP records had been reissued as C 1992 M walked out after my severe depressions; she to 1993 Finally started on the Internet with an IBM XT. My firs 1993 My first cyber-relationship experience with a grad stud 1996 At the end of November, attended the Cybermind96 confer 1996 I meet A in Sydney after the Perth conference. Sh 1996 I think A and I worked through some of our differ 1996 Worked through M G in Sydney, Nova Scotia, on 1996 thought of this program as a way to begin to create an 1997 After the book launch party, N took pho 1997 Back in Sydney again for a second round, dealing with a 1997 But when R apologized, it was too late, and our fr 1997 I lived at 4-7-7 Chiyo, Hakata-Ku, Fukuoka-Shi 812, Jap 1997 I return over and over again to this, in an attempt to 1997 I think I'm so smart. 1997 January 7-22 worked with C\CEN in Sydney for economic d 1997 Late, I think, my brother M comes over and joins L 1997 L and I make a tour down the coast of Oregon; she h 1997 November went to Fukuoka to join L 1997 Stromatolites, cyanobacteria, tendrils. 1997 Today I received a carton of my older work from T B 1997 Wrote the first version of The Case of the Real in Fuku 1997 z, I use you "z" for coda, denouement. This is the jarg 1997 za, They're partial or transitional accounts. They come 1998 April 30 left Fukuoka to return jobless to New York 1998 August 15 to beginning of September, L comes 1998 Finally around November, divorce comes through with A 1998 K and C die 1998 Late April trip to Kyoto with L; Feb 20-March 20 in 1998 Met A in Huntington Beach - we b 1998 November 2-15, tour of Southern California then in Dec. 1998 Potes and Poets brought out The Case of the Real, which 1999 Appointed virtual writer-in-residence, Nottingham Trent 1999 C dies near the beginning of the year, found a 2000 March 16, 9; Mother dies early morning; A and I wer 2001 began teaching with difficulty at Florida Interna 2001 married A on June 14th; July 14th, had a rec 2001 move to Miami, mid August; the cat flew down later. = 1 2 the ordering of the world 2 10 in this disordering of the world 3 6 our crawl-space in the world 4 1 in this world 5 4 catastrophe theory and no presence 6 7 discomfort with holes and spaces and empty reach 7 8 just another and another and another 8 3 the disorder we take unto ourselves 9 5 our fingers meet at something else's tips 10 9 the world jumps when we glance back into it 11 11 rolling at night gathering at day 12 10 the world is unglued 13 6 depictions are traces in n-dimensional space 14 1 a screen-shot is the identity-function of the image 15 3 the image is glued to the screen 16 2 representation is presentation 17 5 an array is its depiction 18 8 i will map out a section of a screen = 19 i will cross ineluctable histories 20 4 the screen is glued to arrays 21 9 the world is in disarray 22 7 this is reverse steganography = Your, always Your our blood of white powder, wet jumper, thighs moist and inviting, oozing penis, "there is a sore on me, i cannot move":incrimination of powders on naked bodies, lips of white, eyes of white, labia and glans of white, our blood of white powder, :can't remember where it's been put, the category of nudes, incriminating evidence, location of powders on naked bodies, lips of:: juice running from the surface of the program, churning back into the screen, incision between one and another pixel, skin :crossed from one program to another, addiction of lost body skins, hunger addictino, addiction of nudes, of programs :the category of nudes as we speak, the sheaf of images, cuts from the surface of the screen, crossed from one program to :categories of bodies and parts of bodies: Your heroin sheaves of images in categories is inside my fuck categories of bodies and parts of bodies Your floors connect my categories of bodies and parts of bodies with needle park whoring of the white powder vagina, whoring of the caked penis, the partying organs, fetish-skin in fetish-skin, flesh in flesh :menage a - N sex, to any number or any species, to any position, to any offering or proffering, from alan-azure whoring :sheaves of images, amputee sex, categorization of limbs, fetish sex under the signs of the ninety-two common elements :of the lost ninety-two elementals: Your wayward of the elementals is in my psychotic of the lost ninety-two elementals _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:53:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/29/01 3:04:40 PM, JBCM2@AOL.COM writes: << And we have to prepare leadership for the decisive conflict that will emerge to first defeat fascism then take political power. >> And here is where this guy scares the shit out of me! I figured he would give himself up sooner or later. It's always about power, isn't it? By the way, if everything he says about the grand conspiracy is true, that wouldn't surprise me either. Left, right, up, down, in, out -- What does Sean Penn's character say in The Thin Red Line? "Everything a lie. Everything you hear, everything you see. So much to spew out. They just keep on coming. One after another. You're in a box. A moving box. They want you dead. Or in their lie." Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:14:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** Bernadette MAYER & Jack COLLOM, Friday Nov 2, 7:30 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable P O E T R Y C E N T E R 2 0 0 1 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents in collaboration with San Francisco Art Institute & Small Press Traffic An evening with BERNADETTE MAYER & JACK COLLOM =46riday November 2 7:30 pm, $6 donation @ San Francisco Art Institute (Lecture Hall) 800 Chestnut Street (between Leavenworth & Jones) BERNADETTE MAYER, tireless experimentalist and diffident, generous bold spirit, makes a rare appearance on the West Coast. Of her many books of poetry and prose, more recent publications include Two Haloed Mourners, Another Smashed Pinecone, Proper Name, The Formal Field of Kissing (translations and epigrams), The Desires of Mothers to Please Others in Letters, The Bernadette Mayer Reader, and a new edition of her marvelously lyrical extravagant long poem Midwinter Day. The collaborative book The 3:15 Experiment is just out, Utopia Productions recently released a CD of her reading from her writings, and the complete Studying Hunger Journals is in the works from Qua Books. Ms. Mayer lives in East Nassau, NY. More on and by Bernadette Mayer at http://www.epc.buffalo.edu/authors/mayer/ JACK COLLOM was raised near Chicago, and moved to Colorado in his youth, where he still lives. After the Air Force, where he wrote his first poems in Tripoli, Libya, he worked in factories for 20 years. He's edited three collections of writings by children for Teachers and Writers Collaborative, among others, taught free-lance as a Poet-in-the-Schools and at Naropa Institute, where he's focused on Ecology Literature and Writing Outreach. Author of 16 small press books of poetry, recent ones include Arguing With Something Plato Said, and the collaborative long poem Sunflower (with Lyn Hejinian). Red Car Goes By: Selected Poems 1955-2000, a warm and massy tome, is new from Tuumba Press, collected edited by Lyn Hejinian, Clark Coolidge, Reed Bye, Larry Fagin, and Merrill Gilfillan. This visit to San =46rancisco marks Mr. Collom's 70th birthday (on November 8). =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D COMING UP: for details http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit November 5 What Is Afghanistan?: A Reading & Open Discussion w/Tamim Ansary, Shahi Sadat, & Jennifer Heath @ Unitarian Center, 7:30 pm, free November 10 Alice Notley, @ Gershwin Theater, USF, 7:30 pm, free November 29 Pierre Joris, @ The Poetry Center, SFSU, 4:30 pm, free =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D SAN FRANCISCO ART INSTITUTE is located at 800 Chestnut Street, in North Beach (between Leavenworth & Jones) a short walk up the hill from Columbus take the 30 Stockton bus to Columbus & Chestnut All Poetry Center events are videotaped and made available to the public through our American Poetry Archives collection. The first Complete Catalog in over a decade detailing available Archives tapes will be published in late 2001, including videos from 1974 forward, and audiotapes dating from the early years of The Poetry Center , from its founding in 1954 through the early 70s. MEMBERS WILL BE MAILED A FREE COPY OF THE CATALOG ON PUBLICATION. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., as well as by the College of Humanities at San Francisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:32:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: e Subject: Bob Perelman to appear on Halloween Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable BOB PERELMAN READS FROM HIS WORK... Wednesday at 4:30 pm, in UCSD's Visual Arts Performing Space John Ashbery has written, "Most poets define poetry by creating it, Bob Perelman creates it by defining it, and is thus one step closer to collidin= g with Zeno=B9s vanishing point, to merging Coyote with Road Runner, to winning the hand." Perelman=B9s poetry also proceeds from real social conscience and bristles with sharp political satire. His volumes of poetry include Virtual Reality, The Future of Memory and Ten To One: Selected Poems. Perelman has also published critical works including The Marginalization of Poetry and The Trouble With Genius: Reading Pound, Joyce, Stein and Zukofsky. He is Professor of English at University of Pennsylvania. a part of the New Writing Series ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:50:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bernard Waldrop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Cornelia Street Caf=E9 in association with Avec Books would like to invite > you to a readingto celebrate the publication of Lisa > Lubasch's Vicinities and Keith Waldrop's Semiramis if I Remember > (self-portrait as mask). > > Wednesday, November 7, 2001 > Cornelia Street Caf=E9 > 29 Cornelia Street > b/w Bleeker and West 4th Streets > (212) 989-9319 > Reading: 6:00 pm > > > Lisa Lubasch ~ Vicinities > > "...Lubasch's longing is deeper than any balm the world's surfaces can > provide. It's unanswerable, immense, and unrelenting; and ultimately one > has to think it is spiritual....This is poetry of sublime utterances, of > registering the vanishing edges of an inchoate thought or feeling....But > let me be clear: In the age of originality there is no one writing like > Lisa Lubasch." - John Yau > > Native New Yorker Lisa Lubasch's first book of poems "How Many More of > Them Are You?" (Avec Books, 1999) received the 2000 Norma Farber First > Book Award. > > Keith Waldrop ~ Semiramis if I Remember (self-portrait as mask) > > "One of the most important writers, translators and publishers of > avant-garde literature in our time." - Publishers Weekly (on The > Silhouette of the Bridge) > > "Waldrop writes for those who like to read a poem more than once, not > because they didn't understand it the first time, but because it was such > a pleasure. His words just don't dissolve, but hold in the reader's mind > and mouth with a delicious aftertaste." -American Book Review (on The > Locality Principle) > > Keith Waldrop teaches at Brown University and with Rosmarie Waldrop edits > the small press, Burning Deck. Waldrop has translated, among others, > Anne-Marie Albiach, Pascal Quignard, and Jean Grosjean. Among his recent > books are Analogies of Escape (Burning Deck), Haunt (Instance) and the > collected collaborations with Rosmarie Waldrop, Well Well Reality > (Post-Apollo Press). His Silhouette of the Bridge (Avec Books) received > the Americas Award for Poetry for 1997. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:22:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. Comments: RFC822 error: Mail origin cannot be determined. Comments: RFC822 error: Original tag data was -> Ann Lauterbach <> From: Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV administrator Subject: Re: What Is a Day Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed What is a Day? 1. To narrate oneself into a catastrophe with vast and unknowable global consequences seems trivial, or vain, or both. What does it matter where one was or what one did or how one reacted or felt or what one thought, if thinking occurred at all, during or afterwards. Why should one insert oneself into the cataclysm after the shipwreck of the singular? One plus one equals two. One plus one equals eleven. One plus six thousand equals six thousand and one. The eleventh day of the ninth month is an emergency. In an emergency call 911. Satan the Joker. Flight 11 drove overhead, engines so close it could have been inhaling the air, so one was being sucked up into the roar, had become the roar. Out of sleep into nightmare, out of sleep into the visceral recall of earlier times when every plane carried a bomb, when the night sky was nothing if not a seedbed of danger. In New York, in lower Manhattan, during the Second World War, during the Korean War, during the Cold War. Bombs. Planes with bombs. Rolled or fell or jumped down onto the floor, covering the head. Silence for seconds. Then a great thump, a muted swallowing sound, like a snake a rat. Not a big crashing sound, but the sound stealth might make on its way to annihilation. One could see nothing, or rather one could not see the Something that had just transpired, because the south-facing windows no longer looked out, but only at the backs of buildings recently constructed into the view. It took months for these buildings to go up, the workers only a stone's throw away. Scaffolds and hard hats and big male voices and reverberating tools. Bit by bit, the sky is removed, the view of the Towers sealed under the collage of progress, under the sign of a swollen prosperity. In the first days, twenty-odd years before, the world included the Hudson River and the Woolworth Building and the Twin Towers. The days and nights were quiet. The moon came up and stood visible in the framed sky before going on. Sunlight streamed through the big south-facing windows, carrying the glittering facade with it. In the first place, and until a few years ago, the downstairs was a hum of activity all night long, long yellow trucks, men loading and unloading foodstuffs --- eggs and butter and cheese --- to deliver to the restaurants in the city. Now the downstairs is called ROOM; it is filled with smart cool furnishings. Across the street, there are chairs hanging by threads in the window. They cost, according to The New York Times, $140,000 for a set of twelve. Slender women in tight pants and slim pointed shoes stand on the loading dock with their cellphones, speaking with French accents. They do not smile when one passes them carrying one's groceries. The neighborhood seems overtaken by a throng of well-dressed young persons who move as if blind, barely noting the parts of the world that do not directly address their needs or intentions or designs; they walk as if the world were put there for them, is a result of their desires. They seem to have no sense of time, as if nothing existed before they arrived, and nothing will exist when they leave. One siren. Another siren. Make coffee, get dressed. One is alive after all, after whatever that was. Turn on the television. One never turns on the television in the morning, in the day, but something just happened. A bright female voice is talking to a male voice who is describing sitting on his balcony in Union Square, sipping his morning coffee, and seeing a jet come in low, too low, calling to his wife, hey honey, come look at this jet so low over the city. One sees the image of a shadow plane, the plane's silhouette like a cut-out, a template, peculiarly dematerialized. The body and mind in discreet places, wires crossed, thinking one should get to the basement, take cover, thinking about tornadoes, hurricanes, huge winds, and bombs. Confused between accident and intent, acts of nature and acts of man. One does not remember at what moment Terror took on motivation, pulled the cause into the effect, the effect into the cause. Pictures of a tower in flames. Still, one does not quite register that the plane was that plane, the towers those towers. One is at the place that the tiny TV screen is making into an image. See! Look there! Where? At passages. The actual collides with its images. The cat goes into the closet. One goes upstairs to the neighbors. We are not good neighbors to each other, we are poor denizens, neither friendly nor unfriendly, who have lived with a floor between us for more than twenty years. The neighbor is wild with worry for her son. Her teenage daughter tries to look as if nothing is happening. Her television is blasting; one hears the word "Pentagon". One goes downstairs. M. is standing near the elevator. She lives on the top floor with her three sons and her husband, S. the landlord, son of Harry, who started his butter and eggs business here decades ago. She is wearing a pretty dress. One mentions the basement; M stares; she mentions the school. We are not in each other's company. The trajectories of fear do not intersect; words spoken fly into the dead space of incomprehension. One goes out. One looks to the right, where a small crowd has gathered on the northeast corner of Hudson Street, everyone looking up, looking south. One walks to the corner and looks south. The tower is in flames, orange flames licking out of the edges as if one had thrown a box into a fireplace. There are no comparisons. It is not like anything. . One is back in the house. There is an explosion, the windows rattle, the building shimmies. A sudden wash of pale grayish particles rains down. The TV picture turns into a spray of splinters and the sound shreds into a shimmer of agitating vibrations. One goes back onto the street. More people, moving and gathering. One walks to the other corner, the West side. One looks up, the other tower is in flames. It looks like the first tower. Symmetry. Tyger, Tyger, Burning Bright In the Forest of the Night What Persons scream, point. Above, tiny figures are emerging out of the windows, out into the blue air. Slowly turning out, floating into the air, seemingly weightless, like paper dolls. Persons below are weeping, sobbing, running. Now the whole city is a Siren, an Engine heading downtown. Immortal Hand or Eye Could frame thy Fearful Symmetry? Even as a little girl, one refused to watch the newsreels of war. 2. My nephew Richard phones; I tell him I am frightened. He says his friend David is at home across the street. Richard has recently married; he works for ABC News. David has recently married; he makes films. They are both in their early thirties. I leave with a bottle of water and my purse; I do not shut the windows. I go across the street, ring David's doorbell. David gives me some scotch, says he is going to pack a bag and walk north, find his wife who is in the Village. It takes a village. David says we can go across the street and close your windows and you can pack a bag. I say I am too frightened to go back, let's just leave. We leave, walk north, through pockets and eddies of persons looking bewildered and scared, some of whom start to run in panic. The sirens are now at a steady pitch, billowing downstream into the maw of it. I do not look back. Don't look back. David keeps saying, "I just want to see my wife". He says, "Now we are refugees." At Bank Street, where David's wife is with some of their friends, I do not want to watch the big TV screen in the small apartment. I do not want to see any more of it, but I do see the towers collapse like so many gossamer threads. I do see the shadow shape of the airliner plunge into the tower. I see the huge orange ball of fire coming out of the side of one of them, immense flaming innards from a ruptured body. Everyone in the world is seeing these images. A wholly Phallic rape, the plane penetrating the material verticality of the erect. How big is yours? I have two. Mine, mine. One minus one is zero. I never liked the Twin Towers. I was working on Broome Street in SoHo in the early 1970s, as a waitress, shortly after they were completed, and I saw them each day as I walked to work. I found them totemic and graceless, not so much minimal as monolithic. If this is world trade, then why is everything the same? Where is the reciprocity and recognition of difference? What or where is the Other between two identical objects? If this is world trade, then why is it so anonymous, so indifferent, uninflected by the human, so insistently abstract? What are these colossal vertical plinths, dwarfing all else, meant to mean to a city of pedestrians, of island wanderers, of immigrants? Where is the space of dream, the vicissitude of hope and disappointment, the contemplation of the space between action and consequence? If this is the world trade center, then where is the world, where is the trade, where is the center? Where is the turn of the tide, where the humility of looking back from far off in space, tiny blue and white ball in a great sea of change? Where is the horizon, the distant line that gives definition to days and nights, figures the man and the woman, the beasts of burden, the road from town to town, from wilderness to city, the space of voyage, discovery, routes from China, from Spain, from England, over, and from, sea to shining sea? Giant step for mankind. Not trade but power, not exchange, but raw Capital on its hegemonic march. Upward mobility. Out of scale with everything around it. Scale n. a drinking vessel; a bowl; a cup. The obsolete definition gives way to the two dishes of a balance or a machine for weighing. Things weigh in the balance. The figure of Justice with her scales. When, twenty years ago, my friend Jennifer had her wedding supper at the Windows on the World Restaurant, I could feel the tower shift in the wind like a dry reed. Eventually, I learned to love the weather play against them, the sapphire blue of long Manhattan twilights, the dark pewter gauze of cloud or fog or mist covering their tops like an ethereal hem, the setting sun splashing its scarlet radiance against their reflective surfaces. Glass and water. I thought they were like fish leaping from the water. I wrote, "The Twin Towers rise like wet fish and as briefly tragic." I saw them then, imagined them, falling back down, into the water. Late in the day I go uptown by subway with another nephew, Jack, who is an architect. He has walked down from his office to Bank Street to get me. We sit outside together, just down the street from Saint Vincent's Hospital, which is strangely quiet. I can see a crowd of white uniformed doctors and nurses milling about, waiting. David and his friends try to give blood, but the lines are too long. Elizabeth takes some bags of clothes over. Elizabeth cannot believe her view has been so changed. When the fighter jets begin to streak overhead, I cannot bear the sound, cover my ears. Friendly fire. 3. On Wednesday morning, my friends Peter and Susie and I set out from their house on 85th Street. The city is quiet, no traffic, the stores are closed. We find a gypsy cab, whose driver tells us he can only go as far as 14th Street. We zip down Ninth Avenue. In the unencumbered distance, we can see the cloud of orange tinged smoke rising, filling the bright blue southern sky. We walk south, stop at a Gristedes for some water. A man at the check-out counter is counting out dollar bills, hundreds of them, to give to the clerk so she has change for the customers. We buy bottles water and continue to walk. We are stopped by a police barricade. I say I live on Duane Street and need to get my cat. The policeman is gentle, and tells us to go to the next corner, where I show my ID, and we continue south. We pass a wrecked car covered in white dust. We stop at Citibank to get some cash. I keep saying, "There is no way the garage is going to be open. I will not be able to get my car." All I want to do is to leave the city. Fight or flight. The air is thick with gritty particles. We run into the poet Jackson MacLow and his composer wife Anne Tardos, who are trying to buy some food, but who do not want to go further south because the air is too bad. Jackson looks small and recessed and ashen. The building where I live is dark and vacant; a sign on the downstairs door says that my landlord suggests the tenants evacuate because there is no electricity or gas. Madonna, my aged cat, named for the pop star, comes out from her hiding place in the closet. She looks betrayed and resentful. To the south, where there had been the aspiring pillars, a massive pile steams and heaves like a beached whale, its great belly engorged with sorrow and waste. The man who is always at the Kinney garage is sitting on a chair where he always sits, at the entrance ramp. He has ebony skin and a kind, chiseled face. I say the obvious in disbelief: "You are open!" He says, smiling, without irony, "We are open twenty-four hours a day." From, for example, the 11th of September until the 12th of September, 2001. I am thinking, What is a day? He says he cannot take credit cards or a check, only cash. I borrow money from Peter. 4. Now it is October. The days move away from the Day, but the Day stays near, does not move back in time. It feels as if it wants to attach itself to another day, equally terrible. There are flags everywhere, messages of condolence from anonymous companies in the paper, scraps of paper on buildings with pictures of missing persons. People in the neighborhood seem to be moving more slowly, with less sureness of where they are going. On the weekend, a steady parade of persons streams past, cameras around their necks, to stare at the wreckage. There is a smell of burning, acrid and gritty, rubbing against the bright autumnal air. The sky where the towers were is empty, as if time had rolled backwards. The Woolworth building looks taller, less archaic, like an elderly relative suddenly called to stand in for the dead. Ann Lauterbach ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 04:18:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: sick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - sick i am a sick man; i worry constantly that i am dying. my cholesterol is out of control; i cannot find a doctor. heartburn is so bad i am debilitated and often cannot function. i am off medication. i cannot sleep; tonight again is a night full of nightmare and internal violence. it gnaws at me. it produces my writing. it inhabits my videos. it crawls up my body. i live with death. i know i will not live long. my brain has been acting up - the left frontal lobe again. tinnitus has returned with a vengeance; i hear you only through a high-pitched wine. it is hard to focus on anything - sleeplessness leaves me nervous and irritable. i cry at the slightest provocation; try me. my philosophy lives at the edge of my mind. there is nothing but limit within me; i am striated. when i open my eyes the world is an irregular grid. i am close to hysteria. some one of these posts will be my last. i can feel it in my body. i can feel it in my flesh. the absence... it will be a dropping-away; it will take time. then you will know it's gone - the writing - the nervous tremb- ling - the texts - the luridness - the philosophy of no-name. at that point nothing will matter; the fadeout is endurable; the work drops out, fades out. look: there are almost no books, no readings, no citations, no presence. a skein within a skein - the residue of a blemish on the web. but nothing outside of it - the work is dead. "chances are you have not read this far." if you have you're one of four or five. death: i feel it in my bones. i feel the crystals. i feel the cry of the letters. death shakes them out. _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 04:21:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: D D D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = D D D D 5 Oct 30 To: Cyb Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Walker Subject: Squeaky Clean? (was Peace in Our Time) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And to argue that we won't get all of them and therefore should do nothing is absurd. When your house is infested with mice, you kill off as many as you can and they disappear for a while. When they reappear, you go after them again. [David Antin] It's not, of course, your house. You merely occupy it, though you hold a gun to its owner's heads. Then those mice. Presumably they're refugees from the Great White House Smoking Out Metaphor. But aren't they also a trope on Bush's *slumbering giant* references, an example of cognitive blending: a big American cat chasing tiny, 6'5" bin Ladens? The practical argument against destroying Afghanistan (and there are plenty of moral ones as well) isn't one of insufficiency or even that the terrorists actually live elsewhere - though they seem to, by and large. It's that destroying ICRC warehouses, ten year old Afghan evil doers, elderly, burqa clad evil ones and misguided youths from Luton (while dismissing as appeasers anyone who doubts the efficacy of such action) will create _more_ terrorists than you originally started off with. That might be thought to be a pity, on the whole. The US was late into WWII, incidentally. Very late. US appeasement was motivated by just the sort of diplomatic *enemy's enemy* stance you advocate, by solipsistic semiotics; Britain's by the memory of carnage. America's policy was implemented through the 1935 and 1937 Neutrality Acts and by the 1941 Lend-Lease Act empowering Roosevelt to supply armaments to 'any country whose defence the President deems vital _to the defence of the United States_.' Thus America entered the war not, as did Britain, following the invasion of another country but only after the attack upon the US navy at Pearl Harbour. That's if we're going to throw phrases like 'peace in our time' about in the first place. CW ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:02:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: robert saint Subject: Rejecting Western Culture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://www.unclesam.net/cny/ref/burge2.htm College Profs Denounce Western Culture, Move to Caves By David Burge CNS Satire Cambridge, MA - Two years ago this month, Alan Lowenstein, associate professor of philosophy at Harvard University, came to a fateful conclusion. "I suddenly realized that the oppression of western technology extended to my own life," he explained. "That's when I got rid of my computer, threw away my Brooks Brothers suits, changed my name to Grok and moved into a cave." A passionate critic of Euro-American "linear thought," Grok is one of a growing number of college professors around the nation who have relocated to caves, mud huts and makeshift sweat lodges to demonstrate their disdain for western culture and technology. For Grok, 44, the move to a cave was a natural step in his intellectual progression. "My dissertation at Columbia integrated the seminal works of Jacques Lacan, Derrida, and Michel Foucault," said Grok, referring to the influential French deconstructionist philosophers. "I was able to prove, conclusively, that conclusiveness is not conclusive." The 1983 dissertation, entitled "Beyond the (Dis)Integration of Post-Modern Post-Toasties Pair 'o Dimes and Paradigms: Look at How Clever I Am," created a stir in academic circles and landed Lowenstein a prestigious teaching position at Harvard. From there, he honed his cutting-edge research. "I began to deconstruct everything I could get my hands on," said Grok. "The Old Testament, Shakespeare, Dick and Jane, the 1967 Sears catalog, the Boston phone book, you name it. I showed how everything is a lie, that everything could be deconstructed. Except Deconstruction, of course." When he earned tenure in 1991, Grok decided to broaden his philosophical research. "I realized that deconstructing literature was overly limiting. It was clear that other fields of inquiry could benefit from deconstruction." It was then that Grok published a series of influential articles in which he deconstructed the sciences. "I initially showed that the so-called 'scientific method,' so treasured by the self-appointed high priests of science, was nothing but a bizarre ritual of the industrialist phallocracy," said Grok. "From there, it was a short intellectual leap to disprove the reality of the periodic tables, gravity and algebra." Despite being elected chairman of the Philosophy Department in 1995, Grok felt an intellectual void. "I needed some way to explain why literature and science were so bad, so putrid, so incredibly vile," said Grok. "That's when it dawned on me. They were the products of western culture." The shocking realization lead Grok to a new stream of research that unveiled the oppressive nature of western civilization. He immersed himself in the writings of third world revolutionaries Franz Fanon, Rigoberta Menchu and Maxine Waters. With CUNY professor Leonard Jeffries, he documented NASA's theft of earth-orbiting satellites from the Klung bushmen of sub-Saharan Africa. "This stream of research completely obliterated the smiling mask of oppressive western cultural hegemony," said Grok, proudly. "Plus, I got a fat merit raise out of it." Strangely ill at ease, Grok was about to have an epiphany. "It was at the Modern Language Association meeting in Chicago in '97," he explained. "I was chairing a session on the link between Malibu Barbie dolls and the Guatemalan counterinsurgency movement. Then it occurred to me. Here we were, complaining about western science and culture, using animated Power Point slide presentations. At the Four Seasons, no less. It was just a tad hypocritical." The scene caused Grok to re-examine his own life. "I realized then that I, too, was a victim of white male Eurocentric western culture. My brainwashing was so complete, so insidious, it took forty-two years to discover it," he said. "I think it all goes back to that Stingray bike I got in fifth grade," added Grok, who grew up in affluent suburban Winnetka, Illinois. "Like other victims, I became fixated on material things. I shudder to think of that time, before graduate school, when I considered getting a job." After the conference, Grok vowed to eliminate the trappings of western culture in his own life. First to go were his personal computer, his BMW sedan, his fashionable Back Bay apartment, and his expensive wardrobe. They were replaced by a typewriter, a bicycle, a phone-free studio apartment and secondhand clothes. To his chagrin, Grok realized that the replacement technologies were also contaminated by western culture. "The wheels on the bicycle, for example," noted Grok. "Only western civilization would be as arrogant to speak of 'perfect' circles." Grok said that each of his attempts to replace western technology brought more frustration. "Last year, when I was hunkered over the heating grate in my cardboard box, I realized I was merely a pawn of western industrialists. They're trying to seduce and entrap the developing world with their addictive steam and cardboard technology." Over the last year, Grok continued to cleanse his personal life of western culture and technology. While he is "not quite there yet," he said he is finally happy in his 8' by 4' by 4' dirt cave along the banks of the Charles River. "Finally, I have broken the cycle of oppression," he said, violently hacking up a thick clot of blood-streaked mucus. He refused an offer to contact medical assistance. Noting that "western medicine is merely a front for the hegemonic pharmaceutical industry," Grok applied another leech to his chest. "Like the indigenous peoples, I have everything I need here," said Grok. "Especially stray dogs." Like the prairie bison to the Lakota Sioux, stray dogs are an important source of hides, meat and milk for Grok. A committed animal rights activist, he does not skin or eat the dogs until they have died of natural causes. Grok said his simplified, non-western lifestyle has made him a more spiritual man. "Each day, I pray to the dog god for more stray dogs," he said. He has even sculpted a totem of the dog god, made entirely of dried dog excrement. He considered cave paintings of the dog god, but rejected the idea as "too European." Grok's dramatic commitment to western technology-free living has inspired others in the academic community. One convert is Eegah, chairperson of the department of gender studies at the University of Michigan, who now lives in a creek bed outside Ann Arbor. "There is something very liberating, very empowering about abandoning phallocentric culture," said Eegah, who was until recently known as Katherine Robinson. "Cave dwelling authenticates our visceral experience, releasing us from the bond of western patriarchal oppression." As an example, Eegah noted that she is no longer dependent on money. "I have adopted the traditional barter system of non-western, matriarchal societies. I get all the furs and meat I need by having sex with hobos." Eegah said that non-western living has other advantages. "I am liberated from western notions of female beauty. No longer do I have to shave my armpits, bathe, or see the dentist," said Eegah, noting that she has lost fewer than ten teeth since 'going non-western' in 1996. Duke University english professor Mognuk, formerly known as Phillip Turner, tried to bring his own commitment to non-western thought directly into the classroom - or in his case, classcave. Instead of using the department Xerox machine to print syllabi and exams, Mognuk painstakingly copied each, by hand, onto tree bark using frog blood for ink. The process is made more difficult by the lack of daylight before spring semester. "The Xerox machine is an avatar of the sterility and conformity of European-based civilization," explained Mognuk, stroking his mud-encrusted beard. "And it is full of evil spirits." Kristin Hawley, Duke sophomore and a student in Mognuk's popular class, E2605 - Fire Bad, said the unconventional course has opened her eyes to the evils of western hegemony. "Before this course, I had always assumed that Fire Good," said Hawley. "It wasn't really my fault, I was simply parroting the western culture propaganda. You know, 'Fire Good, Fire Good.'" "Because of Professor Mognuk, I now know that Fire Bad - Fire Very Bad," added Hawley. "I finally feel my parents are getting something out of that $30,000 of tuition money." Back in his Cambridge cave, Grok was stirred from his sleep by the blaring horns of taxis on Massachusetts Avenue. It was a bitterly cold January morning, and he insulated himself by slathering his skin with a thick slab of dog lard and wrapping himself in extra dogskins. Struggling to clear the snow blocking the cave entrance, Grok emerged squinting against the bright sunlight as it reflected off the snow and the Boston skyscrapers. "What a beautiful morning," said Grok. "A tragedy it's spoiled by all the hateful western technology." He will spend the next hour foraging for a breakfast of nuts and tree bark in the shadows of Boston's skyline, with little success. Hungry and discouraged, Grok attempts to mug a passing jogger by jumping on his back. However, at 5'6", 123 pounds and weakened by spasmodic coughing, he posed little threat. Taking pity, the jogger offered Grok a granola bar, which he hungrily accepted. "I know it's processed food," said Grok apologetically. "But I used force to take it from my oppressor. My research shows that this is a legitimate, non-western method of wealth redistribution." Clearing the snow from his makeshift twig sundial, Grok noted the time. "Damn," he exclaimed. "I'm late for my lecture." He hobbled off to class wearing Wonderbread wrappers on his feet, one of his few remaining concessions to western technology. While it has been tough at times, Grok said he has no regrets. "Western culture is a cancer, and I'm committed to wiping it out. Plus, the whole cave-dwelling thing should help with my promotion case and journal articles." Meanwhile, Grok said he plans one more fling with western technology. "I'm taking a plane to Washington next week," said Grok. "I'm getting some sort of award for my deconstructing of the word 'is.'" Copyright 1999 David Burge. E-mail IowaHawk_98@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:34:45 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Etal. The chances of "terrorists" accomplishing the S11 attack are very low: I think it was organised by extreme right wing elements from inside the CIA-military- and others: I think that the planes were flown by remote control with all passengers and the pilots dead by a radio controlled gas bombs: then using guidance methods and the auto pilot (switched on and off as needed) they were flown into the buidings. The Penslyvannia plane was deliberately sent away from the White house to make it look "real". Phone calls could well have been pre recorded etc How to get 19 people who are both highly intelligent and also want to commit suicide: who are young...and having a good time in the US...and no one "cracks"? The Muslims might be very religious but they are not that dedicated so to speak....There has never been a high jack with 4 planes.(that number increases the probability of a "stuff up"). All others have been outside the US (and most have been a protest against the situation in Palestine) ... the whole op was undertaken with "military precision" and there is still NO PROOF and NO EVIDENCE of who did it. Bin Laden denies it (whereas for Kudos yo'd expect a boast)... In fact I believe he has only said something like: "There will be no peace in America while there is conflict in Palestine." That seems a good and intelligent statement. And I dont see the Taleban as so terrible. They have their phiosophy and ways of life. We should let them alone. The buildings collapsed just too well: like a controlled demolition. The US attacks Afghanistan - who have no significant ships or aircraft steaming or flying toward the US (quite the reverse the Middle eastern nations are surrounded by massive military ships, subs, and other of the Western nations ) because they harbour terrorists. For that reason they should attack about 2000 other countries: maybe they should bomb New Jersey where the Anthrax (which was of a type apparently was only made by the US Military). Keep this war going and the US will experience some REAL terror. Goff is clearly well informed. Its time to go and read Ginsberg's "America" again. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Brennan" To: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 5:16 PM Subject: The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce > The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce > By Stan Goff > > http://www.narconews.com/goff1.html > > I'm a retired Special Forces Master Sergeant. That doesn't cut much > for > those who will only accept the opinions of former officers on military > matters, since we enlisted swine are assumed to be incapable of > grasping the > nuances of doctrine. > > But I wasn't just in the army. I studied and taught military science > and > doctrine. I was a tactics instructor at the Jungle Operations Training > Center in Panama, and I taught Military Science at West Point. > > And contrary to the popular image of what Special Forces does, SF's > mission > is to teach. We offer advice and assistance to foreign forces. That's > everything from teaching marksmanship to a private to instructing a > Battalion staff on how to coordinate effective air operations with a > sister > service. > > Based on that experience, and operations in eight designated conflict > area > from Vietnam to Haiti, I have to say that the story we hear on the > news and > read in the newspapers is simply not believable. The most cursory > glance at > the verifiable facts, before, during, and after September 11th, does > not > support the official line or conform to the current actions of the > United > States government. > > But the official line only works if they can get everyone to accept > its > underlying premises. I'm not at all surprised about the Republican and > Democratic Parties repeating these premises. They are simply two > factions > within a single dominant political class, and both are financed by > the same > economic powerhouses. My biggest disappointment, as someone who > identifies > himself with the left, has been the tacit acceptance of those > premises by > others on the left, sometimes naively, and sometimes to score some > morality > points. > > Those premises are twofold. One, there is the premise that what this > de > facto administration is doing now is a "response" to September 11th. > Two, > there is the premise that this attack on the World Trade Center and > the > Pentagon was done by people based in Afghanistan. In my opinion, > neither of > these is sound. To put this in perspective we have to go back not to > September 11th, but to last year or further. > > A man of limited intelligence, George W. Bush, with nothing more than > his > name and the behind-the-scenes pressure of his powerful father-a > former > President, ex-director of Central Intelligence, and an oil man-is > systematically constructed as a candidate, at tremendous cost. > > Across the country, subtle and not-so-subtle mechanisms are put into > place > to disfranchise a significant fraction of the Democrat's African- > American > voter base. This doesn't come out until Florida becomes a > battleground for > Electoral College votes, and the magnitude of the story has been > suppressed > by the corporate media to this day. In a decision so lacking in > legitimacy, > the Supreme Court will neither by-line the author of the decision nor > allow > the decision to ever be used as a precedent, Bush v. Gore awards the > presidency of the United States to a man who loses the popular vote in > Florida and loses the national popular vote by over 600,000. > > This de facto regime then organizes a very interesting cabinet. The > Vice > President is an oil executive and the former Secretary of Defense. The > National Security Advisor is a director on the board of a > transnational oil > corporation and a Russia scholar. The Secretary of State is a man > with no > diplomatic experience whatsoever, and the former Chair of the Joint > Chiefs > of Staff. The other interesting appointment is Donald Rumsfeld as > Secretary > of Defense. Rumsfeld is the former CEO of Searle Pharmaceuticals. He > and > Cheney were featured as speakers at the May, 2000, Russian-American > Business > Leaders Forum. So the consistent currents in this cabinet are > petroleum, the > former Soviet Union, and the military. > > Based on the record of Daddy Bush, in all his guises, and the general > trajectory of US foreign policy as far back as the Carter > Administration, I > feel I can reasonably conclude that Middle Eastern and South Asian > fossil > fuels are one of their major preoccupations. Not just because this > klavern > has some very direct financial interests in fossil fuel, but because > they > surely know that worldwide oil production is peaking as we speak, and > will > soon begin a permanent and precipitous decline that will completely > change > the character of civilization as we know it within 20 years. > > Even the left seems to be in deep denial about this, but the math is > available. And, no, alternative energies and energy technologies will > not > save us. All the alternatives in the world can not begin to provide > more > than a tiny fraction of the energy base now provided by oil. This > makes it > more than a resource, and the drive to control what's left more than > an > economic > competition. > > I further conclude that the economic colonization of the former > Soviet Union > is probably high on that agenda, and in fact has a powerful synergy > with the > issue of petroleum. Russia not only holds vast untapped resources that > beckon to imperialism in crisis, it remains a credible military and > nuclear > challenger in the region. > > We have not one, but three members of the Bush de facto cabinet with > military credentials, which makes the cabinet look quite a lot like a > military General Staff. All this way before September 11th. > > Then there's the subject of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. > NATO > might have expected consignment to the dustbin of the Cold War after > the > Eastern Bloc shattered in 1991. Peace dividend and all that. But it > didn't. > It expanded directly into the former states of the Eastern Bloc > toward the > former Soviet Union, and contributed significant forces to the > devastation > of > Iraq -a key country in the world oil market, over which control > translates > into the ability to manipulate oil prices. NATO is a military > formation, and > the United States exerts the controlling interest in it. > > It seemed like a form without a function, but it remedied that pretty > quickly. Then when Yugoslavia refused to play ball with the > International > Monetary Fund, the US and Germany began a systematic campaign of > destabilization there, even using some of the veterans of Afghanistan > in > that campaign. > > NATO became the military arm of that agenda-the break-up of > Yugoslavia into > compliant statelets, the further containment of the former Soviet > Union, and > the future pipeline easement for Caspain Sea oil to Western European > markets > through Kosovo. > You see, this is important to understand, and people-even those > against the > war talk-are tending to overlook the significance of it. NATO is not a > guarantor of international law, and it is not a humanitarian > organization. > > It is a military alliance with one very dominant partner. And it can > no > longer claim to be a defensive alliance against European socialists. > It is > an instrument of military aggression. > > NATO is the organization that is now going to thrust further along > the 40th > parallel from the Balkans through the Southern Asian Republics of the > former > Soviet Union. The US military has already taken control of a base in > Uzbekistan. No one is talking about how what we are doing seems to be > a very > logical extension of a strategy that was already in motion, and has > been in > motion for two decades. > > Once we recognize the pattern of activity designed to simultaneously > consolidate control over Middle Eastern and South Asian oil, and > contain and > colonize the former Soviet Union, Afghanistan is exactly where they > need to > go to pursue that agenda. > > Afghanistan borders Iran, Pakistan, and even China but, more > importantly, > the Central Asian Republics of the former Soviet Union, Uzbekistan, > Turkmenistan and Tajikistan. These border Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan > borders > Russia. Turkmenistan sits on the Southeastern quadrant of the Caspian > Sea, > whose oil the Bush Administration dearly covets. > > Afghanistan is necessary for two things: as a base of operations to > begin > the process of destabilizing, breaking off, and establishing control > over > the South Asian Republics, which will begin within the next 18-24 > months in > my opinion, and constructing a pipeline through Turkmenistan, > Afghanistan, > and Pakistan to deliver petroleum to the Asian market. > > The BBC was recently told by Niaz Naik, a Pakistani Foreign > Secretary, that > senior American officials were warning them as early as mid-July that > military action for mid-October was being planned for Afghanistan. In > 1996, > the Department of Energy was issuing reports on the desirability of a > pipeline through Afghanistan, and in 1998, Unocal testified before > the House > Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific that this pipeline was crucial to > transport Caspian Basin oil to the Indian Ocean. > > Given this evidence that a military operation to secure at least a > portion > of Afghanistan has been on the table, possibly as early as five years > ago, I > can't help but conclude that the actions we are seeing put into > motion now > are part of a pre-September 11th agenda. I'm absolutely sure of that, > in > fact. The planning alone for operations, of this scale, that are now > taking > shape, would take many months. And we are seeing them take shape in > mere > weeks. > > It defies common sense. This administration is lying about this whole > thing > being a "reaction" to September 11th. That leads me, in short order, > to be > very suspicious of their yet-to-be-provided evidence that someone in > Afghanistan is responsible. It's just too damn convenient. Which also > leads > me to wonder-just for the sake of knowing-what actually did happen on > September 11th, and who actually is responsible. > > The so-called evidence is a farce. The US presented Tony Blair's > puppet > government with the evidence, and of the 70 so-called points of > evidence, > only nine even referred to the attacks on the World Trade Center, and > those > points were conjectural. This is a bullshit story from beginning to > end. > Presented with the available facts, any 16-year old with a liking for > courtroom dramas could tear this story apart like a two-dollar shirt. > > But our corporate press regurgitates it uncritically. But then, as we > should > know by now, their role is to legitimize. This cartoon heavy they've > turned > bin Laden into makes no sense, when you begin to appreciate the > complexity > and synchronicity of the attacks. > > As a former military person who's been involved in the development of > countless operations orders over the years, I can tell you that this > was a > very sophisticated and costly enterprise that would have left what we > call a > huge "signature". In other words, it would be very hard to effectively > conceal. > > So there's a real question about why there was no warning of this. > That can > be a question about the efficacy of the government's intelligence > apparatus. > That can be a question about various policies in the various agencies > that > had to be duped to orchestrate this action. And it can also be a > question > about whether or not there was foreknowledge of the event, and that > foreknowledge is being covered up. > > To dismiss this concern out of hand as the rantings of conspiracy > nuts is > premature. And there is a history of this kind of thing being done by > national political bosses, including the darling of liberals, Franklin > Roosevelt. The evidence is very compelling that the Roosevelt > Administration > deliberately failed to act to stop Pearl Harbor in order to mobilize > enough > national anger to enter the World War II. > > I have no idea why people aren't asking some very specific questions > about > the actions of Bush and company on the day of the attacks. > > Follow along: > Four planes get hijacked and deviate from their flight plans, all the > while > on FAA radar. The planes are all hijacked between 7:45 and 8:10 AM > Eastern > Daylight Time. > Who is notified? > This is an event already that is unprecedented. But the President is > not > notified and going to a Florida elementary school to hear children > read. > By around 8:15 AM, it should be very apparent that something is > terribly > wrong. The President is glad-handing teachers. > By 8:45, when American Airlines Flight 11 crashes into the World Trade > Center, Bush is settling in with children for his photo ops at Booker > Elementary. Four planes have obviously been hijacked simultaneously, > an > event never before seen in history, and one has just dived into the > worlds > best know twin towers, and still no one notifies the nominal > Commander in > Chief. > No one has apparently scrambled any Air Force interceptors either. > > At 9:03, United Flight 175 crashes into the remaining World Trade > Center > building. > At 9:05, Andrew Card, the Presidential Chief of Staff whispers to > George W. > Bush. Bush "briefly turns somber" according to reporters. > Does he cancel the school visit and convene an emergency meeting? No. > He > resumes listening to second graders read about a little girl's pet > goat, and > continues this banality even as American Airlines Flight 77 conducts > an > unscheduled point turn over Ohio and heads in the direction of > Washington > DC. > Has he instructed Chief of Staff Card to scramble the Air Force? No. > An excruciating 25 minutes later, he finally deigns to give a public > statement telling the United States what they already have figured > out; that > there's been an attack by hijacked planes on the World Trade Center. > There's > a hijacked plane bee-lining to Washington, but has the Air Force been > scrambled to defend anything yet? No. > At 9:30, when he makes his announcement, American Flight 77 is still > ten > minutes from its target, the Pentagon. > > The Administration will later claim they had no way of knowing that > the > Pentagon might be a target, and that they thought Flight 77 was > headed to > the White House, but the fact is that the plane has already flown > South and > past the White House no-fly zone, and is in fact tearing through the > sky at > over 400 nauts. > > At 9:35, this plane conducts another turn, 360 degrees over the > Pentagon, > all the while being tracked by radar, and the Pentagon is not > evacuated, and > there are still no fast-movers from the Air Force in the sky over > Alexandria > and DC. > Now, the real kicker: A pilot they want us to believe was trained at a > Florida puddle-jumper school for Piper Cubs and Cessnas, conducts a > well-controlled downward spiral, descending the last 7,000 feet in > two-and-a-half minutes, brings the plane in so low and flat that it > clips > the electrical wires across the street from the Pentagon, and flies > it with > pinpoint accuracy into the side of this building at 460 nauts. > > When the theory about learning to fly this well at the puddle-jumper > school > began to lose ground, it was added that they received further > training on a > flight simulator. > This is like saying you prepared your teenager for her first drive on > I-40 > at rush hour by buying her a video driving game. It's horse shit! > > There is a story being constructed about these events. My crystal > ball is > not working today, so I can't say why. > > But at the least, this so-called Commander-in-Chief and his staff > that we > are all supposed to follow blindly into some ill-defined war on > terrorism is > criminally negligent or unspeakably stupid. And at the worst, if more > is > known or was known, and there is an effort to conceal the facts, > there is a > criminal conspiracy going on. > > Certainly, the Bush de facto administration was facing a confluence of > crises from which they were temporarily rescued by this event. > Whether they > played a sinister role or not, there is little doubt that they have > at the > very least opportunistically pounced on this attack: > - - to overcome their lack of legitimacy, > - - to shift the blame for the encroaching recession from capitalism > to the > September 11th terror attack, > - - to legitimize their pre-existing foreign policy agenda, > - - to establish and consolidate repressive measures domestically > and silence > dissent. > > In many ways, September 11th pulled the Bush cookies out of the > fire. And > gave the Bush team the green light to begin constructing a long-term > scenario within which to establish fascistic control measures at home > and > abroad as a citadel for the ruling class in the catastrophic > conjuncture > that we are entering based on the end of oil. > > This elephant in the living room is being studiously ignored. In > fact, the > domestic repression has already begun, officially and unofficially. > It's > kind of a latter day McCarthyism. I participated in a teach-in at > Chapel > Hill, North Carolina, on the 17th of September, and though not a > single > person on the panel excused or justified the attacks, and every > person there > offered > either condolences and prayers for the victims, we were excoriated > within > two days as "enemies of America." > > Yesterday an op-ed called for my deportation (to where, one can only > guess). > Now Herr Ashcroft is fast tracking the biggest abrogation of US civil > liberties since the so-called anti-terrorism legislation after the > Oklahoma > City bombing - which by the way hasn't resulted in anti-terrorism but > in the > acceleration of the application of the racist death penalty. > > The FBI has defined terrorist groups not by whether any given group > has ever > acted as terrorists, but by their beliefs. Some socialists and > anti-globalization groups have already been identified by name as > terrorist > groups, even though there is not a single shred of evidence that they > have > ever participated in any criminal activity. It reminds me of the > Smith Act > that was finally declared unconstitutional, but only after a hell of > a lot > of people served a hell of a long time in jail for the crime of > thinking. > > I think this also points to yet another huge problem that the Bush > regime > was facing. Worldwide resistance to the whole so-called neoliberal > agenda, > which is a prettied up term for debt-leverage imperialism. While debt > and > the threat of sanctions has been used to coerce nations in the > periphery, we > have to understand that the final guarantor of compliance remains > military > action. For a global economic agenda, there is always a corresponding > political and military agenda. > > The focal point of these actions in the short term is Southern Asia, > but > they have already scripted this as a worldwide and protracted fight > against > terrorism. It's far better than drug wars as a rationalization, and > the > drug war thing was being discredited in any case. Leftists are > regaining > power and popularity in Venezuela, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Ecuador, > Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Brazil, and Argentina. Cuba > has > gained immense prestige over the last few years. The empire is > beginning to > unravel. > > We can hardly justify intervention in these places by saying they are > not > toeing the economic line by allowing the absolute domination of their > societies by transnational corporations. That exposes the agenda. So > we > simply claim they are supporting terrorism. > > It's for all these reasons I say the left has missed the boat on this > one, > by allowing them to get away with rushing past the question of who > did what > on September 11th. If the official story is a lie, and I think the > circumstantial case is strong enough to stay with this question, then > we > really do need to know what happened. > > And we need to understand concretely what the motives of this > administration > are. And we need to understand more than just their immediate > motives, but > where the larger social forces that underwrite our situation right > now are > headed. I do not think this administration is engaged in the > deliberative > process of a political grouping that is on top of their game. They are > putting together some very deliberative technical solutions in > response to a > larger situation that it slipping rapidly out of their control. Like > clear > cutting. There's a very smart technology being employed to do a very > dumb > thing. > > What they are responding to is not September 11th, but the beginning > of a > permanent and precipitous decline in worldwide oil production, the > beginning > of a deep and protracted worldwide recession, and the unraveling of > the > empire. > > This brings me to a point about what all this means for Americans' > security, > which they are perfectly justified to worry about. > > The actions being prepared by this administration will not only not > enhance > our security, it will significantly degrade it. Military action > against many > groups across the globe, which is what the administration is telling > us > quite openly they are planning to do, will put a lot of backs against > the > wall. That can't be very secure. The concept of war being touted > here is a > violation of the principles of war on several counts, and will > inevitably > lead to military catastrophes, if you're inclined to view this from a > position of moral and political neutrality. > > And the people who are now in possession of half the world's > remaining oil > reserves are subject to destabilization for which we can't even > pretend to > predict the consequences-but loss of access to critical energy > supplies is > certainly within the realm of possibility. > > Worst of all, we will be destabilizing Pakistan, a nuclear power in an > active conflict with its neighbor, and we will be provoking Russia, > another > nuclear power. The security stakes don't get any higher, and > Americans can > ill afford to ignore nukes. > > And I think that this domestic agenda is a tremendous threat to the > security > of anyone who is critical of the government or their corporate > financiers, > and we already know that the real threats are against populations > that can > easily be scapegoated as the domestic crisis deepens. > > There is a very real threat right now of creeping fascism in this > country, > and that phenomenon requires its domestic enemies. Historically those > enemies have included leftists, trade unionists, and racially and > nationally > oppressed sectors. This whole "state of emergency" mentality is > already > being used to quiet the public discourses of anti-racism, of > feminism, of > environmentalism, and of both socialism and anarchism. > > And while there is token resistance by officials to anti-Muslim > xenophobia, > the stereotypical images have saturated the media, and the government > is > already beginning to openly reinstate racial profiling. It is only a > short > step from there to go after other groups. We have long been prepared > by the > ideologies of overt and covert racism, and racism as both institution > and > corresponding psychology in the United States is nearly intractable. > > It's for all these reasons that I say emphatically that we can not > accept > anything from this administration; not their policies nor their > bullshit > stories. What they are doing is very, very dangerous, and the time to > fight > back against them, openly, is right now, before they can consolidate > their > power and their agenda. Once they have done that, our job becomes > much more > difficult. > > The left, if it has the capacity to self-organize out of its > oblivion, needs > to understand its critical roles here. We have to play the role of > credible, > hard-working, and non-sectarian partners in a broader peace-movement. > We > have to study, synthesize, and describe our current historical > conjuncture. > And we have to prepare leadership for the decisive conflict that will > emerge > to > first defeat fascism then take political power. > > Rosa Luxemburg's words are truer than ever right now. We are not > faced with > a choice between socialism and capitalism, but socialism or > barbarism. And > what we can least afford are denial and timidity. > > Stan Goff > > http://www.narconews.com/goff1.html > > I strongly recommend, for anyone who wants to find further background > material on the issues herein check out the websites at dieoff.org, > emperors-clothes.com, and globalcircle.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:50:09 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Italian Futurism and war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ray. Study Marxism and the class struggle and US International political history (start with the Korean war where the US deliberately bombed anything innocent or others and also hospitals) ( have a look at "Peekshill USA" by Howard Fast maybe)and have a look at the history of US dealings with unions - maybe re-read Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath" - and communism (real or imagined) and read all about the Vienam War ("The Rape of Vietnam" by H G Slingsby is a good book) and Tricky Dicky and you'll be less skeptical that the attacks may have been engineered by certain right wing elements inside your own country who are Christians (so-called) and are the power behind your government: they are known as the owners of the means of production. They need a war right now: its good for business in the long run.Think how "incredibly" well organised the attack on S11 was: think of the "military precision" of the attack. Who could organise that? So 6000 were killed: so what? The US in the past has been responsible for the deaths of millions either by direct or indirect military and economic actions. And if they continue with this futile war against an abstract noun there will be millions more killed or die of starvation disease and so on: also supposedly "innocent". Richard. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Bianchi" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:03 PM Subject: Italian Futurism and war > Perhaps I am a heretic on the list serve but I do not oppose the violent > response that we are making to the events of Sept 11. It is possible to > find moral > or ethical problems with many wars since WWII but I think that this response > is justified. Just as our fight against Germany and Japan was justified. > How else should we respond? These people attacked and killed 6000 people. > Do I want innocent people killed? Of course not but someone needs to tell me > what we should do? I was in the village the other day and there was this > protest against "war"but what is the right response to being attacked? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maria Damon" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 4:14 PM > Subject: UN anti-war petition > > > > > > > > > > As a result of the day of terror on Tuesday September 11 and that left > > > > the Twin Towers of New York and the Pentagon of Washington D.C. > > > > destroyed the United States may be about to declare war. The New York > > > > Times stated that, because the attack it is not only against the > U.S.A. > > > > but against all of civilization, ".. It is necessary to identify to > the > > > > countries that support the terrorist movements because it is there > that > > > > the true war will be directed." > > > > > > > > The chief of the Arab newspaper Al-Quds, with headquarters in London, > > > > said that the Islamic terrorist Ussama Bin Laden had had noted three > > > > weeks ago that it planned to carry out "an important" attack against > > > > American interests. > > > > > > > > Karen Huges, who advises President Bush, assured us at a press > > > > conference that the country has the means to guarantee national > > > > security. What the U.S.A may feel compelled to do may result in very > > > > lamentable reprisals against the Islamic world. > > > > > > > > However, the state of Alert that United States maintains, is not > without > > > > good reason. The American people are very indignant and are requesting > > > > justice somehow... and a reprisal for their dead siblings. > > > > > > > > Today we are in a point in imbalance in the world and are moving > toward > > > > what may be the beginning of a THIRD WORLD WAR. > > > > > > > > If your are against this possibility, the UN is gathering signatures > to > > > > avoid this tragic world event. Please COPY this e-mail in a new > message, > > > > sign at the end of the list, and send it to all the people that you > know. > > > > > > > > If you receive this list with more than 500 names signed, please send > a > > > > copy of the message to : > > > > > > > > unicwash@unicwash.org > > > > > > > > > > > 000001&a=c2 > > > > > > > > 2efadf5ca80b31c2414e90f2fa29dc&mailto=1&to=unicwash@unicwash.org& > > > > msg=MSG1002 > > > > > > > > Even if you decide not to sign, please consider forwarding the > petition > > > > on instead of eliminating > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Laurence COMPARAT, Grenoble,France > > > > > > > > 3) Philippe MOTTE, Grenoble, France > > > > > > > > 4) Jok FERRAND, Mont St Martin, France > > > > > > > > 5) Emmanuelle PIGNOL, St Martin d'Heres,FRANCE > > > > > > > > 6) Marie GAUTHIER, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 7) Laurent VESCALO, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 8) Mathieu MOY, St Egreve, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 9) Bernard BLANCHET, Mont St Martin,FRANCE > > > > > > > > 10) Tassadite FAVRIE, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 11) Loic GODARD, St Ismier, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 12) Benedicte PASCAL, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 13) Khedaidja BENATIA, Grenoble, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 14) Marie-Therese LLORET, Grenoble,FRANCE > > > > > > > > 15) Benoit THEAU, Poitiers, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 16) Bruno CONSTANTIN, Poitiers, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 17) Christian COGNARD, Poitiers, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 18) Robert GARDETTE, Paris, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 19) Claude CHEVILLARD, Montpellier, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 20) gilles FREISS, Montpellier, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 21) Patrick AUGEREAU, Montpellier, FRANCE. > > > > > > > > 22) Jean IMBERT, Marseille, FRANCE > > > > > > > > 23) Jean-Claude MURAT, Toulouse, France > > > > > > > > 24) Anna BASSOLS, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > > > 25) Mireia DUNACH, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > > > 26) Michel VILLAZ, Grenoble, France > > > > > > > > 27) Pages Frederique, Dijon, France > > > > > > > > 28) Rodolphe FISCHMEISTER,Chatenay-Malabry, France > > > > > > > > 29) Francois BOUTEAU, Paris, France > > > > > > > > 30) Patrick PETER, Paris, France > > > > > > > > 31) Lorenza RADICI, Paris, France > > > > > > > > 32) Monika Siegenthaler, Bern, Switzerland > > > > > > > > 33) Mark Philp, Glasgow, Scotland > > > > > > > > 34) Tomas Andersson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 35) Jonas Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 36) Karin Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 37) Ake Ljung, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 38) Carina Sedlmayer, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 39) Rebecca Uddman, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 40) Lena Skog, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 41) Micael Folke, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 42) Britt-Marie Folke, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 43) Birgitta Schuberth, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 44) Lena Dahl, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 45) Ebba Karlsson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 46) Jessica Carlsson, Vaxjo, Sweden > > > > > > > > 47) Sara Blomquist, Vaxjo, Sweden > > > > > > > > 48) Magdalena Fosseus, Vaxjo, Sweden > > > > > > > > 49) Charlotta Langner, Goteborg, Sweden > > > > > > > > 50) Andrea Egedal, Goteborg, Sweden > > > > > > > > 51) Lena Persson, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 52) Magnus Linder, Umea ,Sweden > > > > > > > > 53) Petra Olofsson, Umea, Sweden > > > > > > > > 54) Caroline Evenbom, Vaxj > > > > > > > > sica Bjork, Grimsas, Sweden > > > > > > > > 57) Linda Ahlbom Goteborg, Sweden > > > > > > > > 58) Jenny Forsman, Boras, Sweden > > > > > > > > 59) Nina Gunnarson, Kinna, Sweden > > > > > > > > 60) Andrew Harrison, New Zealand > > > > > > > > 61) Bryre Murphy, New Zealand > > > > > > > > 62) Claire Lugton, New Zealand > > > > > > > > 63) Sarah Thornton, New Zealand > > > > > > > > 64) Rachel Eade, New Zealand > > > > > > > > 65) Magnus Hjert, London, UK > > > > > > > > 67) Madeleine Stamvik, Hurley, UK > > > > > > > > 68) Susanne Nowlan, Vermont, USA > > > > > > > > 69) Lotta Svenby, Malmoe, Sweden > > > > > > > > 70) Adina Giselsson, Malmoe, Sweden > > > > > > > > 71) Anders Kullman, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 72) Rebecka Swane, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 73) Jens Venge, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 74) Catharina Ekdahl, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 75) Nina Fylkegard, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 76) Therese Stedman, Malmoe, Sweden > > > > > > > > 77) Jannica Lund, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 78) Douglas Bratt=20 > > > > > > > > 79) Mats Lofstrom, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 80) Li Lindstrom, Sweden > > > > > > > > 81) Ursula Mueller, Sweden > > > > > > > > 82) Marianne Komstadius, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 83) Peter Thyselius, Stockholm, Sweden > > > > > > > > 84) Gonzalo Oviedo, Quito, Ecuador > > > > > > > > 85) Amalia Romeo, Gland, Switzerland > > > > > > > > 86) Margarita Restrepo, Gland, Switzerland > > > > > > > > 87) Eliane Ruster, Crans p.C., Switzerland > > > > > > > > 88) Jennifer Bischoff-Elder, Hong Kong > > > > > > > > 89) Azita Lashgari, Beirut, Lebanon > > > > > > > > 90) Khashayar Ostovany, New York, USA > > > > > > > > 91) Lisa L Miller, Reno NV > > > > > > > > 92) Danielle Avazian, Los Angeles, CA > > > > > > > > 93) Sara Risher,Los Angeles,Ca. > > > > > > > > 94) Melanie London, New York, NY > > > > > > > > 95) Susan Brownstein , Los Angeles, CA > > > > > > > > 96) Steven Raspa, San Francisco, CA > > > > > > > > 97) Margot Duane, Ross, CA > > > > > > > > 98) Natasha Darnall, Los Angeles, CA > > > > > > > > 100) James Kjelland, Evanston, IL > > > > > > > > 101) Michael Jampole, Beach Park, IL, USA > > > > > > > > 102) Diane Willis, Wilmette, IL, USA > > > > > > > > 103) Sharri Russell, Roanoke, VA, USA > > > > > > > > 104) Faye Cooley, Roanoke, VA, USA > > > > > > > > 105) Celeste Thompson, Round Rock, TX, USA > > > > > > > > 106) Sherry Stang, Pflugerville, TX, USA > > > > > > > > 107) Amy J. Singer, Pflugerville, TX USA > > > > > > > > 108) Milissa Bowen, Austin, TX USA > > > > > > > > 109) Michelle Jozwiak, Brenham, TX USA > > > > > > > > 110) Mary Orsted, College Station, TX USA > > > > > > > > 111) Janet Gardner, Dallas, TX USA > > > > > > > > 112) Marilyn Hollingsworth, Dallas, TX USA > > > > > > > > 113) Nancy Shamblin, Garland. TX USA > > > > > > > > 114) K. M. > > > > > > > > man, Houston, Texas - USA > > > > > > > > 116) Laurie Sobolewski, Warren, MI > > > > > > > > 117) Kellie Sisson Snider, Irving Texas > > > > > > > > 118) Carol Currie, Garland, Garland Texas > > > > > > > > 119) John Snyder, Garland, TX USA > > > > > > > > 120) Elaine Hannan, South Africa > > > > > > > > 121) Jayne Howes, South Africa > > > > > > > > 122) Diane Barnes, Akron, Ohio > > > > > > > > 123) Melanie Dass Moodley, Durban, SouthAfrica > > > > > > > > 124) Imma Merino, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > > > 125) Toni Vinas, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > > > 126) Marc Alfaro, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > > > 127) Manel Saperas, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > > > 128) Jordi Ribas Izquierdo, Catalonia > > > > > > > > 129) Naiana Lacorte Rodes, Catalonia > > > > > > > > 130) Joan Vitoria i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 131) Jordi Paris i Romia, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 132) Marta Truno i Salvado, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 133) Jordi Lagares Roset, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 134) Josep Puig Vidal, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 135) Marta Juanola i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 136) Manel de la Fuente i Colino,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 137) Gemma Belluda i Ventura, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 138) Victor Belluda i Ventur, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 139) MaAntonia Balletbo, barcelona, Spain > > > > > > > > 140) Mireia Masdevall Llorens, Barcelona,Spain > > > > > > > > 141) Clara Planas, Barcelona, Spain > > > > > > > > 142) Fernando Labastida Gual, Barcelona,Spain > > > > > > > > 143) Cristina Vacarisas, Barcelona, Spain > > > > > > > > 144) Enric Llarch i Poyo, Barcelona,CATALONIA > > > > > > > > 145) Rosa Escoriza Valencia, Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 146) Silvia Jimenez, Barcelona, Catalonia > > > > > > > > 147) Maria Clarella, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 > > > > > > > > 148) Angels Guimera, Barcelona,Catalonia=20 > > > > > > > > 149) M.Carmen Ruiz Fernandez,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 150) Rufi Cerdan Heredia,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 151) M. Teresa Vilajeliu Roig,Barcelona,Catalonia > > > > > > > > 152) Rafel LLussa, Girona,Catalonia,Spain=20 > > > > > > > > 153) Mariangels Gallego Ribo,Gelida,Catalonia=20 > > > > > > > > 154) Jordi Cortadella, Gelida,Catalonia=20 > > > > > > > > 155) Pere Botella, Barcelona,Catalonia(Spain)=20 > > > > > > > > 156) Josefina Auladell Baulenas,Catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > > > > > 157) Empar Escoin Carceller,Catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > > > > > 158) Elisa Pla Soler, Catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > > > > > 159) Paz Morillo Bosch, catalunya(Spain)=20 > > > > > > > > 160) Cristina Bosch Moreno, Madrid(Spain)=20 > > > > > > > > 161) Marta Puertola > > > > > > > > n > > > > > > > > 163) Joaquin Rivera (Madrid) Spain > > > > > > > > 164) Carmen Barral (Madrid) Spain > > > > > > > > 165) Carmen del Pino (Madrid) Spain > > > > > > > > 166) Asuncion del Pino (Madrid) Spain > > > > > > > > 167) Asuncion Cuesta (Madrid) Spain) > > > > > > > > 168) Ana Polo Mediavilla (Burgos)Spain=20 > > > > > > > > 169) Mercedes Romero Laredo(Burgos)Espana=20 > > > > > > > > 170) Oliva Mertinez Fernandez(Burgos)Espana=20 > > > > > > > > 171) Silvia Leal Aparicio (Burgos)Espana=20 > > > > > > > > 172) Claudia Elizabeth > > > > > > > > 173) Federico G. Pietrokovsky(C.F.)Argentina=20 > > > > > > > > 174) Naschel Prina (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 > > > > > > > > 175) Daniela Gozzi (CapitalFederal)Argentina=20 > > > > > > > > 176) Paula Elisa Kvedaras(CapitalFederal)Argentina > > > > > > > > 177) Antonio Izquierdo (Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > > > 178) Ana Belen Perez SolsonaValencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > > > 179) Paula Folques Diago (Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > > > 180) Nestor Alis Pozo (Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > > > 181) Rafael Alis Pozo (valencia) Spain > > > > > > > > 182) Isabel Maria Martinez(Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > > > 183) Cristina Bernad Guerrero(Valencia)Espana=20 > > > > > > > > 184) Iria Barcia Sanchez184) Elena Barrios Barcia. > > > > Uppsala.Suecia=20 > > > > > > > > 185) Illana Ortiz Martin.Munchen.Alemania=20 > > > > > > > > 186) Santiago Rodriguez Rasero.M=FCnchen.Alemania=20 > > > > > > > > 187) David Ag=F3s D=EDaz. Pamplona. Espa=F1a > > > > > > > > 188) Juan Luis Ibarretxe. Galdakao.E.H.=20 > > > > > > > > 189) Rub=E9n D=EDez Ealo. Galdakao. E.H. > > > > > > > > 190) Marcial Rodr=EDguez Garc=EDa. Ermua. > > > > > > > > 191) Imanol Echave Calvo. SanSebastian.Spain.=20 > > > > > > > > 192) Bego=F1a OrtizdeZ=E1rateLazcano.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Spain > > > > > > > > 193) David S=E1nchezAgirregomezkorta.Gasteiz.Euskadi. > > > > > > > > 194)Alberto Ruiz DeAlda.Gasteiz.Euzkadi > > > > > > > > 195) Juan Carlos GarciaObregon.Vitoria-Gasteiz.Espa=F1a > > > > > > > > 196) Jon Aiarza Lotina.Santander.Spain=20 > > > > > > > > 197)teresa del Hoyo Rojo. Santander. > > > > > > > > 198) Celia NespralGaztelumendi.Santander. Espa=F1a > > > > > > > > 199) Pedro Mart=EDn Villamor,Valladolid.Espa=F1a.=20 > > > > > > > > 200) Victoria Arratia Mart=EDn,Valladolid,Espa=F1a=20 > > > > > > > > 201) Javi Tajadura Mart=EDn,Portugalete,Euskadi.Spain > > > > > > > > 202)Lourdes Palacios Martin, Bilbao,Spain=20 > > > > > > > > 203) Jes=FAs Avila de Grado, Madrid,Espa=F1a=20 > > > > > > > > 204) Eva Mar=EDa Cano L=F3pez. Madrid.Spain=20 > > > > > > > > 205) Emilio Ruiz Olivar, Londres, UK > > > > > > > > 206) Maru Ortega Garc=EDa delMoral,CALAHORRA,ESPA=D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 207) Juan Carlos Ayala Calvo, Logro=F1o,Spain=20 > > > > > > > > 208) Roc=EDo Mu=F1oz Pino, Logro=F1o, Espa=F1a > > > > > > > > 209) Ximena Pino Burgos, Santiago,Chile=20 > > > > > > > > 210) Roberto Saldivia Quezada, Santiago,Chile > > > > > > > > 211) Paola Gonzalez Valderrama, Santiago,Chile > > > > > > > > 212) Cesar Morales Pe=F1a y Lillo, Santiago > > > > > > > > 213) Denisse Labarca Abdala , Santiago,Chile > > > > > > > > 214) Mar=EDa Paz Gonz=E1lez Garay > > > > > > > > 215) Daniela Millar Kaiser, Santiago,Chile > > > > > > > > 216) Alvaro Wigand Perales, Valdivia,Chile > > > > > > > > 217) Gladys Bustos Carrasco, Quilicura,Chile > > > > > > > > 218) Patricio Criado Rivera, Quilicura,Chile > > > > > > > > 219) Carolina Aguilar Monsalve, Valdivia,Chile > > > > > > > > 220) Carmen Silva Utrilla, Madrid, Espa=F1a > > > > > > > > 221) Martha Yolanda Rodriguez Aviles,Queretaro,Mexico > > > > > > > > 222) LAURA RODRIGUEZAVILES,COZUMEL,QUINTANAROO,MEXICO=20 > > > > > > > > 223)KATIA HAHN , MERIDA, YUCAT=C1N > > > > > > > > 224) [Sofia Gallego] Mexicali, B.C. Mexico > > > > > > > > 225)BEATRIZ CASTA=D1EDA DE CLARIOND,Monterrey,M=E9xico > > > > > > > > 227) Roc=EDo S=E1nchez Losada, M=E9xico D.F. > > > > > > > > 228) Lorenza Estand=EDa Gonz=E1lez Luna, M=E9xico D.F. > > > > > > > > 229) Gabriel Gallardo D'Aiuto,M=E9xico D.F. > > > > > > > > 230) Jos=E8 Antonio Salinas, Monterrey, N.L., Mex. > > > > > > > > 231) Laura Cantu, Mty N.L., Mex > > > > > > > > 232) Jossie Garcia, Mty N.L Mex > > > > > > > > 233) Martha V=E1zquez Gonz=E1lez, Mty, N.L.; M=E9x. > > > > > > > > 234) Olga Moreno, Monterrey, NL, Mex > > > > > > > > 235) Mariana Camargo, Pto. Vallarta, Jal; Mex. > > > > > > > > 236) Alfonso Villa, Toluca, Mexico > > > > > > > > 237) Arturo Rodriguez Reyes, Toluca, Edo Mexico,MEXICO=20 > > > > > > > > 238) Fernanda Villela, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO > > > > > > > > 239) Pilar Jim=E9nez, Caracas, VENEZUELA > > > > > > > > 240) Erika Rovelo, M=E9xico D.F., MEXICO > > > > > > > > 241) ALEJANDRO LECANDA, CIUDAD DE MEXICO, MEXICO > > > > > > > > 242) Gabriela Diaz de Sandi, Cd. Mexico, Mexico > > > > > > > > 243) Jorge Bustamante Orgaz, Ciudad de M=E9xico,M=E9xico. > > > > > > > > 244) Jos=E9 Bernardo Rodr=EDguez Montes, CiudaddeMExico,MExico=20 > > > > > > > > 245) Luisa Angela Ari=F1o Pel=E1ez. Ciudad deM=E9xico,MExico. > > > > > > > > 246) Ramses Ricardo Rios Zaragoza, CD de M=E9xico > > > > > > > > 247) Rosa Mar=EDa Lamparero. Ciudad de M=E9xico. > > > > > > > > 248) Margarita Palomares . Ciudad de M=E9xico. MEXICO > > > > > > > > 249) Carlos Anaya. MEXICO > > > > > > > > 250) Enrique Garc=EDa Menes > > > > > > > > 251) Loren Walker. United States > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > 252) Natalie Lutz - La Ville Du Bois, France > > > > > > > > 253) Melissa Iwai - United States > > > > > > > > 254) Yukako Sunaoshi, Auckland, New Zealand > > > > > > > > 255) Michael Neill, Auckland, New Zealand > > > > > > > > 256) Anna Wirz-Justice, Basel, Switzerland > > > > > > > > 257) Irving Zucker, Berkeley, USA > > > > > > > > 258) keith oatley, toronto, canada > > > > > > > > 259) bernard schiff, toronto, canada > > > > > > > > 260) David Rothberg, Toronto, Canada > > > > > > > > 261) harald ohlendorf, toronto, canada > > > > > > > > 262) Anna Johnson, USA > > > > > > > > 263) Rachel Johnson, USA > > > > > > > > 264) Wendy Adams, USA > > > > > > > > 265) Linda Brunner , USA > > > > > > > > 266) Agustina Gallegos, Hollister, USA > > > > > > > > 267) Jemila Dwyer, Seattle, USA > > > > > > > > 268) Karen Kuest, Seattle, USA > > > > > > > > 269) Jean Sack, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 270) Shamima Moin, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 271) Anand, Chennai, India > > > > > > > > 272) Enam Ul Hoque, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia > > > > > > > > 273) Musharraf H. Khan, United Arab Emirates > > > > > > > > 274) Zahid Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 275) Rahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 276) Zahin Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 277) Dina Mustary, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 278) Shaonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 279) Hemonti Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 280) Asif Haider, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 281) Suman SMA Islam, Dhaka, Bangladesh > > > > > > > > 282) Meena Poudel, Nepal > > > > > > > > 283) Jyoti Sanghera, India > > > > > > > > 284) Ratna Kapur, India > > > > > > > > 285)Roshni Basu, India > > > > > > > > 286)Maitreya,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 > > > > > > > > 287)Dr Jayasree,Thiruvananthapuram, India-695017 > > > > > > > > 288) Deepa Nair, Trivandrum, India > > > > > > > > 299) Tapas Desrousseaux, Auroville, India > > > > > > > > 300) Mita Radhakrishnan, Auroville, India > > > > > > > > 301) Gayatri Taneja, Hyderabad, India > > > > > > > > 302) Lucia Volk, Cambridge, USA > > > > 303) Tom Conry, Portland OR, USA > > > > 304) Ann Conry, Portland OR, USA > > > > > > > > 305) Mike Jung, Seattle WA, USA > > > > 306) Marie Milsten Fiedler, MN, USA > > 307) Maria Damon, MN, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:24:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: meanings and usage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed from a piece in today's NY TIMES about Brother Withers, now officially recognized by the Catholic church as a hermit: "' There are lots of hermits,' Brother Withers said. He is in touch by email with at least three others, two elsewhere in Pennsylvania. But there are more." I can understand how it might be easier to be a hermit in Pennsylvania, but thank the lord for the email! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " chaos is not our condition." --Charles Olson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:09:44 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: Kelsey St. Press Submissions Call MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Kelsey Street Press announces a two-month period of open submissions--from November 1 to December 31, 2001. We are looking for=20 unpublished book-length collections of poems or poetically-informed prose. W= e=20 are especially interested in receiving submissions from younger or less=20 established writers. Manuscripts will be selected in early 2002 and=20 published in 2003. We are interested in books with some cohesion in their overall composition=20 and style whether it is a sense of narrative or consists of a set of=20 interrelated series or parts. We appreciate writing that tells a story but=20 not in the usual way, which subverts a particular kind of genre, has a sense= =20 of wit or irony, is honest but not na=EFve, but is also direct, surprising,=20 vital and graceful. The press is especially interested in work in which th= e=20 writing, the page and the form of the book are in dynamic relation. Kelsey Street Press was founded in 1974 to publish experimental writing by=20 women and has a history of publishing poets' collaborations with visual=20 artists. Recent publications include Juice by Renee Gladman, Symbiosis by=20 Barbara Guest and Laurie Reid, and Tales of Horror by Laura Mullen.=20 Collaborations will not be accepted in this call for manuscripts. For more information on the press, please view our website at http://www.kelseyst.com Letters of inquiry and/or manuscripts should be sent to: Kelsey St. Press attn: Tanya Erzen/ Karla Nielsen 50 Northgate Ave Berkeley, CA 94705 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:21:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Belladonna* Please Post In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For immediate release: November 1, 2001 Contact: Rachel Levitsky (718) 398-9003; email: Levitsk@attglobal.net The BELLADONNA* Series presents the final Fall reading: Lynn Tillman, Abigail Child, Cheryl Pallant Friday, December 7, 7:00 p.m. The reading will take place at Bluestockings; New York's only all women's bookstore, located at 172 Allen Street, between Rivington and Stanton on the Lower East Side. We begin with a fifteen minute open reading. For information and directions, call 212-777-6028. *** Lynne Tillman is the author of the novels: Haunted Houses, Cast in Doubt, Motion Sickness and No Lease on Life (National Book Critics Finalist 1998) and two story collections, The Madame Realism Complex and Absence Makes the Heart. Her nonfiction includes The Broad Picture, and The Velvet Years: Warhol's Factory 1965-67. She was a co-editor of Beyond Recognition: Representation, Power, Culture-Writings of Craig Owens. Her most recent nonfiction book is Bookstore: The Life and Times of Jeanette Watson and Books & CO. Her fiction has been anthologized in, among others, The Norton Post-Modern Anthology. DAP will soon publish a new collection of her stories written in relation to artwork by over 25 contemporary artists. Abigail Child is a writer and film-video maker. Her films have been shown extensively in solo and retrospective presentations, at venues such as the Rotterdam Film Festival, the London Film Festival, ICA London, the Whitney Museum of American Art, and the Museum of Modern Art NY among others. She has 5 books of poetry including A Motive for Mayhem (Potes and Poets-1989), MOB (O Press 1993), and most recently Scatter Matrix (Roof Books 1996). She has just completed new manuscript of critical writings about film and poetry called This is Called Moving. Her newest film DARK DARK premiered at the 2001 New York Film Festival. Both her film and writing are committed to a rhythmic exploration the syntax: how words and images and sounds come into meaning, how disruption of expectations can dislodge the old and bring new concepts into the present. Cheryl Pallant is a multi-genre writer, dancer, and performing artist living in Richmond, VA. She teaches in the English and the Dance & Choreography Department of Virginia Commonwealth University and until recently, for the International Program of Ottawa University in Malaysia. She is also dance critic for a Richmond newspaper. Uncommon Grammar Cloth, published by Station Hill Press, is her first book of poetry. Her writing appears in numerous literary and online journals throughout the U.S., in England, Australia, and the Czech Republic in places like Confrontation, The Crescent Review, Wormwood Review, and Lyric. Pallant performs in galleries, museums, and alleys. *** The BELLADONNA* Reading Series began in August 1999 at the then newly opened women's bookstore (New York's only) Bluestockings. In its two year history, BELLADONNA* has featured such writers as Erica Hunt, Fanny Howe, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Cecilia Vicuña, Lisa Jarnot, Camille Roy and Nicole Brossard among many other experimental and hybrid women writers. Beyond being a platform for women writers, the curators promote work that is experimental in form, connects with other art forms, and is socially/politically active in content. Alongside the readings, BELLADONNA* supports its artists by publishing commemorative pamphlets of their work on the night of the event. In addition, a salon is often held the same weekend with the writers, addressing aesthetic, political and personal issues in an informal setting. Please contact Rachel Levitsky if you would like to receive a catalog or hear more about these salons. http://www.durationpress.com/belladonna "Brother, if you don't mind, there is a cloud of glass coming at us, grab my hand, lets get the hell out of here." -Anonymous ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:55:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: housepress/derek beaulieu Subject: a reluctant change of email address for housepress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > hi; > reluctantly i am changing my email address, as shaw cable service will no > longer be provided by home.com - anyway - please update your address books > as housepress & derek beaulieu are now at: > > housepress@shaw.ca > > feel free to send test messages if youd like > thanks & i appreciate your patience with what must seem like a plethora of > email changes for me. > yours > derek > > derek beaulieu / housepress > 1339 19th ave nw > calgary alberta > canada t2m 1a5 > housepress@shaw.ca > http://www.telusplanet/net/public/housepre ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:55:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: megan minka lola camille roy Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services Subject: Re: Peace in Our Time MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The best discussion I have seen on the definition of a 'just war' and a corresponding dissection of both what he terms the 'pacifist fantasy' and the 'militarist fantasy' in our current circumstances is this richard falk article in The Nation. http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011029&s=falk megan camille -- http://www.grin.net/~minka "If this is going to be a calm equality, there will be no people." (L. Scalapino) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:26:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Organization: Boog Literature Subject: Ed Sanders added to Boog 10th Anniversary Party Lineup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please forward thanks!! Come one , come all to the BOOG 10TH ANNIVERSARY PARTY Just added--ED SANDERS!! We'll also have available that night a limited edition chapbook, with linoleum block covers, of the introduction to Ed's forthcoming America a History in Verse Volume 3 (Black Sparrow Press) and more Boog printed matter. ____________________________ Friday November 9, 2001, 7pm C-Note 157 Avenue C (&10th St.) NYC $5 performances by: Andrea Ascah ï Anselm Berrigan ï Lee Ann Brown Wanda Phipps ï Jessica Stein ï Ian Wilder and music from Edmund Berrigan Ruth Gordon (Sean Cole and Aaron Kiely) and Olive Juice recording artists Major Matt Mason (http://olivejuicemusic.com/majormattmasonusa.html) and Schwervon (http://olivejuicemusic.com/schwervon.html) email booglit@theeastvillageeye.com or call 212-206-8899 for further information hosted by Boog Literature editor David Kirschenbaum ____________________________________________ Ed Sanders American bard, social activist, environmentalist, novelist, and publisher of The Woodstock Journal (woodstockjournal.com). He also invents musical instruments such as the Talking Tie and the microtonal Microlyre. His new books are America: A History in Verse: Volume 2, 1940-1961 (Black Sparrow Press) and The Poetry and Life of Allen Ginsberg (Overlook Press). Ed founded the legendary Peace Eye Book Store in New York's Lower East Side and the folk rock group the Fugs. For the last three decades he has been active in the environmental, peace, economic justice, and consumer movements in Woodstock, New York, where he lives, during which time he has written books of verse, poetics, novels, collections of short stories, and works of nonfiction. His collected poems, 1961-1985, Thirsting for Peace in a Raging Century, won an American Book Award in 1988. The updated edition of The Family, his study of the Manson group, was published in 1990. Tales of Beatnik Glory, Volumes I and II (1990) is being made into a feature-length film. His musical drama Cassandra, based on texts from Euripides, Aeschylus, Apollodorus and Homer, had its premiere performances in 1992. Sanders' Songs in Ancient Greek (1992) is available on compact disk. He is at work on Volume III of Tales of Beatnik Glory; Tuxedo by Water, a true crime story; and a book of poetics, Investigative Poetry and Beyond. His recent books of poetry from Black Sparrow also include Hymn to the Rebel Cafe (1993), Chekhov (1995) 1968: A History in Verse (1997) and America: A History in Verse, Volume 1, 1900-1939 (2000). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:46:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Organization: Boog Literature Subject: Gertrude Stein on Monday Night Football MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Last night Dennis Miller mentioned Gertrude Stein. The link below takes you to ESPN's "The Annotated Dennis Miller," one of my favorite things to read each Tuesday morning. Go to the bottom for the Stein reference. http://msn.espn.go.com/abcsports/mnf/s/annotatedmiller/index.html as ever, David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:17:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MUDLARK FLASH NO. 14 (2001) Frances Ruhlen McConnel | Three Poems On Seeing on CNN that My Hometown of Oak Ridge, Tennessee, May be the Most Polluted Community in America, I Cried Out in Protest; Psalm; and We Dream of Heroes... Frances Ruhlen McConnel is a poet and writer of short stories and creative nonfiction. She teaches in the Creative Writing Department at the University of California, Riverside. She lives in Claremont, California, and her old stomping grounds include Oak Ridge, Tennessee, Anchorage, Alaska, and Seattle, Washington, where she attended the University of Washington. She has published one book of poetry: GATHERING LIGHT from Pygmalion Press, and has another book, WOLF & BEAR, set to appear any day from Alpha-Zed Press on the Web. She edited a collection of West Coast Women's Poetry, ONE STEP CLOSER, also from the now defunct Pygmalion Press. Recently her poems have appeared, or will be appearing, in THE WILSHIRE REVIEW, SOLO, THE AMERICAN POETRY REVIEW, THE INTERNATIONAL POETRY REVIEW, CRAB CREEK REVIEW, and SALT RIVER REVIEW. She is presently working on an eccentric family memoir. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:25:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kerri Sonnenberg Subject: Jean Donnelly's email Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello, Could someone please backchannel with Jean Donnelly's email address? Thanks! -Kerri ------- Kerri Sonnenberg Conundrum magazine http://www.conundrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:40:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Bill Wadsworth Comments: To: academy@poets.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I am very much in agreement with the spirit of Ann Kjellberg's letter to you about the firing of William Wadsworth. It was especially clear to me during the annual awards ceremony this year that the organization's welcome expansion both in activities and aesthetics was proving costly via long-term supporters, and that the Academy's biggest challenge would be to develop a new donor base to make up for the fall-off in the old one. I am chagrined to see apparent impatience with any transition in this regard, and an unwillingness to expand the funding base in concert with the expanded audiences of the Academy. Or, at least, so must an outsider attribute this action. In any case, I add my own protest to that of Ann's letter below. Susan Wheeler October 25, 2001 Board of Directors Board of Chancellors Academy of American Poets 588 Broadway, Suite 1203 New York, NY 10012-3210 Dear Boards of Directors and Chancellors, I was shocked to learn of the dismissal of Bill Wadsworth as Executive Director of the Academy of American Poets. To my eyes this is a grievous loss for American poetry. Indeed, it is mystifying. A person of Bill's abilities need not have committed himself to such an assignment, but we are lucky that he did. It has seemed to me that he transformed the Academy into a vigorous, modern organization that expanded poetry's reach in multiple directions without ever sacrificing its dignity or seriousness. Under Bill the Academy was both populist and classy, and it seemed the most professionally, ably run institution of its kind in New York. And he was a sympathetic and sophisticated person who struck a civilized note on behalf of poetry. I will miss him, and the character of the organization that he led. I also grieve that a person who gave so much to his work, with such visible success, to all our benefit, should be treated in this way. At a time when, especially in New York, we are more than usually uncertain and vulnerable, and perhaps dependent on our familiar institutions, it seems unusually self-destructive to rob us of the leadership and presence of such a person. Yours sincerely, Ann Kjellberg ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 03:58:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Peace in Our Time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm curious about why more people haven't written about the parallels to the whole Vietnam fiasco, especially the initial stages? as far as response goes, whether it is connected or not. the chaos and panic generated by the anthrax scare appears more devastating at this point. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "david antin" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 PM Subject: Peace in Our Time > I have no trouble understanding the distaste of so many people on the > list for the policies and rhetoric of the Bush government and to a > great extent I share it. But I don't understand the fantasy of some > kind of peaceful resolution with our enemies in the Islamic world. A > murderous, suicidal attack was launched against the city of New York > by a terrorist group who have no interest in peace with the United > States. What they appear to be aiming at is a rallying of Islamic > discontents -- of which there are many with real reasons for their > discontent -- around a flag of religious reform. They've said so and > I think you have to take their word for it. What they want is a > jehad against the modern secular world, of which United States is the > foremost exponent. They haven't done well in the modern world. > They've been robbed by their own rulers as well as by colonial powers > contending for trade routes or oil. And what the terrorist leaders > like bin Laden appear to be trying to do is to show that devotion to > a religious cause by just a few true believers can cause chaos among > the infidel. If the present anthrax attacks are shown to be part of > the bin Laden terror campaign, it would add support to this view, > because these attacks are more panic inducing than seriously > damaging. If his people get away with their attacks and there is no > powerful counter response, they will gain prestige for their > accomplishment, acquire new recruits and repeat their attacks. If > they are counter-attacked and survive, they'll be admired as heroes > by the same group of discontents,gain recruits and attack again. The > only option is a counterattack that they don't survive or survive > with so much damage that it inhibits their abilities to strike again. > There is no peace option. By contrast, Israel and the Palestinians > have a fairly simple peace option, not very likely in the present > circumstance, but real nonetheless. An Israeli withdrawal from the > territories and a relocation of the settlements that allows an > integral Palestinian state would go a long way to resolving the > intifada. That is of course the last thing the terrorists would want. > > But is the attack on Afghanistan the kind of counter-attack that > makes sense? Until the attack on the World Trade Center, the US > exhibited no special interest in overthrowing the Taliban. The > suggestion that the attack on Afghanistan is about oil is ridiculous. > It is almost as likely that we're after their poppy crop. The attack > on the Taliban is a retaliation against a government that "harbors > and trains terrorists", and to the degree that the attack is > seriously functional, it will destroy bin Laden's training centers > and much of his personnel. This may or may not be reasonably > successful, but the main effect is to make clear to other governments > that it will cost dearly to support bin Laden or his like. At the > same time the US has until recently moved very cautiously with the > Northern Alliance. They are probably no better than the Taliban, > though this is of no great concern to the US. The governing maxim of > diplomacy and war is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But a > serious mitigating condition is the hostilitu of the American > "friend," Pakistan, to the Northern Alliance. By the same maxim, the > enemy of our friend is our enemy. At the least, this has made us wary > of the Northern Alliance. And Pakistan's situation is precarious. It > has nuclear weapons and a restless pro-Taliban minority. So the US, > if the rumors regarding this are reliable, has apparently even been > considering Taliban participation in a new Afghan coalition > government after the present government is overthrown. Is this nice? > Is this just? Is it desirable? The question is absurd. It is > Realpolitik. Some list writers have confidently assured me that such > a government must fail because the US will have invented it. Maybe > so, but the US contributed mightily to the invention of the Taliban, > and they've already lasted too long. As for the prolonged bombing,it > doesn't seem functional. There can hardly have been a sufficient > number of military targets for so long a bombing campaign, and every > extra day of bombing will produce more innocent civilian casualties. > If the Bush government insists on an overt action to get bin Laden > and destroy his recruits, they'll have to send in ground troops and > go after them. This may be somewhat useful. But the real action will > still be an international covert counter-intelligence operation > against the sabotage networks. Either we kill them off or they will > continue to produce intermittent havoc. And to argue that we won't > get all of them and therefore should do nothing is absurd. When your > house is infested with mice, you kill off as many as you can and they > disappear for a while. When they reappear, you go after them again. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:25:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Naropa workshops at the wwcac Comments: To: wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org, whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@ Just a reminder about Four Fabulous writing workshops=20 to be held at the Walt Whitman during our NAROPA FESTIVAL in WHITMAN'S CAMDEN November 10-13, 2001 There are still opening for these classes, and I encourage folks to take=20 advantage of the availability of these highly talented and unique=20 writers/educators. SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11 WRITING WORKSHOP Akilah Oliver 11a.m.-1p.m. at: Giovanni's Room,1145 Pine Street Philadelphia, PA 19107 215/923-2960 email: giophilp@netaxs.com IN THE FIELD OF DESIRE: Queering the Text,=20 Writing Your Body Mythography=20 As Queer people, we are still writing ourselves into existence. We need=20 spaces where we can create and bear witness to one another as we write=20 ourselves into voice, into visibility, into imagination. Join writer, teache= r=20 and performer Akilah Oliver in a lively, interactive writing process. We wil= l=20 create the space to investigate and celebrate the body queer. We will use=20 journal writing, improvisation, indeterminacy, and storytelling techniques t= o=20 create new narratives. Come discover, unearth, and reinscribe your queer=20 myhthography through conscious engagement in the field of desire.=20 MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12 WRITING WORKSHOPS Anselm Hollo-10:00 a.m-12 noon YOUR WORKS! =20 This writing workshop will focus on the participants' own poems, their=20 intentions and realizations, triumphs, disappointments, and creative=20 mistakes. It will also attempt to examine and clarify the traditions of=20 which these poems partake (consciously or not). Constructive advice on, an= d=20 criticism of, the works produced by the participants will be given both by=20 the instructor and by the participants themselves. =20 Laird Hunt-4-6 p.m.(class size limit: 6) Hybrid Forms Anne Carson, in the Autobiography of Red, Michael Ondaatje, in the Collected= =20 Works of Billy the Kid, W.G. Sebald, in The Rings of Saturn, David Markson,=20 in Wittgenstein's Mistress, have written books that defy categorization. We= =20 will discuss such mongrel works and examine how blending genre and angle of=20 attack can help us craft lively and challenging fiction. TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 13 WRITING WORKSHOP Eleni Sikelianos-4-6 p.m. How Do Poets Respond to Crisis? The crisis might be personal, political or cultural=E2=80=94war, death, loss= ,=20 madness, oppression, genocide, bombs. Poetry itself might be seen as a crisi= s=20 of language; the crisis of any era embodied in words. In this workshop, we=20 will consider how language might be used in times of trouble. Poets (who=20 have long been writing in the rift) we look to as models for our own poems=20 might include Paul Celan, H.D., George Oppen, Walt Whitman, Amiri Baraka. =20 Responses might include joyful exuberance to counteract the darkness of the=20 times, a disintegrating language that reflects a shredded "reality," poems o= f=20 love as antidote or anodyne. =20 Registration=20 is on a first-come, first-served basis. Send up to 4 pages of writing=20 (optional at this point), your payment, and a SASE if you want your work=20 returned. Updated Deadline: Before Nov 10. Fees for the NAROPA FESTIVAL in WHITMAN'S CAMDEN COMPLETE PACKAGE: Admission to all readings, and workshops. $75 (includes membership) $55 members WRITING WORKSHOPS: $30 (includes membership) $20 members All workshops will run 2 hours, and are limited to 10 participants, excluding Laird Hunt's fiction class (6). READINGS: General Admission $6/Students & Seniors $4/Members Free Payments should be made to the Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center by check or money order. Visa, Master Card and American Express are also accepted. Inquiries: 856-964-8300 wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org www.waltwhitmancenter.org Please join the WWCAC in helping to: Keep the world safe for poetry --Anne Waldman Alicia Askenase Literary Program Director Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center 2nd and Cooper Sts. Camden, NJ 08102 wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@wwcac@ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:58:27 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Poetry Live in Auckland New Zealand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have read since about 1989 at or with Poetry Live and have given many = readings as a guest: also there sometimes have been Wystan Curnow, = Michelle Leggott and many many other poets some "up and coming" and = others now established so to speak. I'll paste the message sent to me = below for those who want to know about and or might be visiting New = Zealand Auckland either now or in the future. There are other = activities (some organised around the Auck Uni) and eg at the Dead Poets = Book Store K' Road in the George Courts Building in K' Road on = Saturdays from 2 pm. Poetry Live are opposite inthe Departure Lounge. I = havent read publically for a while so there is a hiatus which is quite = dramatically affecting the "scene" - joke of course - but I thought I'd = propgagate something other than political ravings. In fact any visitors from any of the countries on the List are welcome = to come to my bookstall K Road on Saturdays 10 am to aboput 3.30 pm. I = also sell through Abebooks.com as Aspect Books. But K' Road (central = Auckland - noboddy cant not find it) is a fascinating place and very = "vibrant" as they say. Political and poetical arguments or harrangues = and edless diatribes or the usual "drivel" and silly jokes from myself = (or customers as the case may be) can (but may or may not as the case = might or might not be, per se) may (be) affect(ed) the (by the) the sale = or lack of sale or purchase or not or otherwise of books and the = quantity of celullose being transacted as per the question or not... = Richard. =20 =20 Poetry Live At Departure Lounge=20 173 Karangahape Road, Auckland.=20 November Guests Tuesday 6th Miriam Barr Tuesday 13th The Faction Tuesday 20th Nik Smythe Tuesday 27th Daniel Harrison 8pm Music open microphone Koha/free ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:26:18 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: by way of intro ii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damian Judge Rollison" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 7:07 AM Subject: by way of intro ii > Dear List, > > In a different vein, I wonder if I could prevail on your > collective and individual awarenesses for help with my > dissertation project, which is now at an inaugural stage. > I'm writing about the nexus of > poem/text/notation/music/performance in Modernist poetry, > specifically collaborations between Gertrude Stein and > Virgil Thompson and between Louis and Celia Zukofsky, with > some discussion of musical notation in Gerard Manley > Hopkins' manuscripts, and of jazz and blues in Harlem > Renaissance poetics. I'm also interested in Cage and Mac > Low, but I don't know as much as I'd like to about > contemporary poetic engagements with musical structure and > performance. I'd love to hear, bc or otherwise, answers to > some questions about contemporary practice (however one > might choose to delimit 'contemporary'): > > 1) What poets have integrated musical notation into poetic > texts? Zukofsky in A and somewhat Pound in the Cantos although he used the very old notation. John Cage? I had the idea of writing a poem on a musical score as if writing a concerto or whatever but I am not musical per se: the idea was to simulate the "ebb and flow" of music, the thematic development, but I never got around to it!...but the connection Poetry to Music is in its structural presentation: no one to one correspondence with music. > > 2) What strike you as the most significant examples of > opera or oratorio libretti, or other 'words for music', by > contemporary poets? > >Auden for Brittain,"Einsten on the Beach"?, John Cage? > > 3) What poets are especially interested in incorporating > jazz, blues, modern orchestral, American folk, or other > musics into their work? In a U.S. context especially, are > there contemporary poets whose work is deeply engaged with > music as a model? (I'm thinking of Zukofsky, Bunting, > Langston Hughes as precursors here.) > > I think Clark Coolidge was a jazz msuician and i think that "Polaroid" is "musically based"..its a fascinating work by him anyway. > I ask these questions not to shirk the work myself, but > because there are, to my knowledge, few obvious ways to > research it. > >To veer off the subject a lot I read a( fairly basic book) on modern usic - then one about Charles Ives - but what stays on my mind is Bartok's attempts to "musicalise" bird song into a complex score: also i remember thinking how strange and beautiful was the written score (of one of his works) it looked like a strange poem. But I could never "hear" the music although I can play the piano I have no "ear" for music. It is an amazing capacity to be able to "visualise" music so to speak into sounds. Music has inspired either the poems or the beginnings of the poems of John Ashbery and many other poets...and so on... By the way: I'm concerned about that great poet. I hope he is not affected too detrimentally by the events from and after S11. >Good luck with your project. Richard. > > Thanks! > > Damian > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > damian judge rollison > department of english/ > institute for advanced > technology in the > humanities > university of virginia > djr4r@virginia.edu > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:34:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: housepress/derek beaulieu Subject: new periodical. formal submissions invitation. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > - QUIET - > > > > quiet is a publication that explores current politics, > > culture, media, and arts in canada's many communities. > > quiet is queer positive and of color, though it is > > open to all. quiet provides a space within which we > > can explore the situations in our various communities. > > > > > > quiet will be published on CD-ROM, which will fuse > > audio, wirtten, and visual media. > > > > for its first issue, due MARCH 15th, 2002 (yes, a long > > way off), quiet is currently accepting submissions. > > submissions will be accepted until january 15th, which > > gives everyone plenty of time to think and write about > > the following topic: > > > > QUIET SOCIETY > > > > this seems like a broad topic, and it is. canada > > often seems like the quintessential "if we don't talk > > about it it doesn't exist" type of quiet society. > > however, not only the mainstream media and political > > systems are guilty of silencing and being silent. > > certain topics are not articulated in the family and > > the work environment. there are things that people do > > not admit to themselves. QUIET is interested in > > writing that expolres these areas where quiet reigns, > > and further explores the repercussions this enforced > > quietness has on the broader society. > > > > we are primarily interested in clear, accessible, > > well-thought out social essays that have a consistent > > critical bent. we are also accepting fiction, visual > > arts, and a limited number of poems. finally, quiet > > is also accepting audio (CD, MINI-DISC, MP3 format) > > submissions of music and spoken word. > > > > queries can be sent to: > > > > kaiekello@yahoo.ca > > anacaona@tao.ca > > > > subz can be sent to: > > > > quiet > > editors > > 3827 coloniale, app.a > > montreal, quebec > > h2w-2b7 > > > > or: > > > > quiet@smallaxe.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:41:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: Center for Book Arts Reading Comments: cc: "mdurand@sprynet.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Center for Book Arts presents a reading by Tonya Foster Heather Ramsdell Edwin Torres on Friday, November 9th at 7 pm with limited edition broadsides of their work, designed and letterpress printed by members of the CBA, available for sale to benefit the CBA. CBA Members admitted FREE - Non-members $5 suggested donation good towards broadside purchase. The Center for Book Arts is located at 28 W. 27th St., 3rd Fl., between 6th and Broadway in New York City. For more information, call (212) 481-0295, e-mail info@centerforbookarts.org, or visit http://www.centerforbookarts.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:25:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Another Anti-Reading Approaches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, It's that time again ... the fourth Anti-Reading will take place this saturday from 1:30-4:00 at Tonic. Expect the usual suspects and a few new faces. Come rain or shine. Hope to see you there. Anti-Reading Tonic (107 Norfolk Street -- F to Delancey) November 3, 2001 1:30 ? 4:00 pm Free For those that associate boredom (and we all do) with literary functions, Loudmouth Collective presents an anti-reading of new work by Matvei Yankelevich, Joel Schlemowitz, Ryan Haley, James Hoff, Wanda Phipps, Ellie Ga, Marisol Martinez, Julien Poirier, Filip Marinovic and many others. Following the success of earlier anti-readings at Tonic, Loudmouth Collective is presenting the fourth installment of this bi-monthly literary carnival. Expect live typewriter art, concrete poetry, language installations, paperless books, poetry film and loads of free books. By providing a bi-monthly forum for the experimental presentation of literature, Loudmouth Collective seeks to re-evaluate the literary reading as it has come to be known today, recasting it as something more than an exercise to sell books. The anti-reading couples authors with the public through intermedia encounters, providing the basis for an ongoing dialogue between the writer and reader. Anti-readings resemble a school carnival, a literary event with no center and no reading. Loudmouth Collective is a young, Brooklyn-based press dedicated to portable fiction and poetry, artists' books and sound art. -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:47:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: "the faculty never recovered" In-Reply-To: <63.d71afd.290f55a1@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed While it is true that some professors in the 60s chose not to fail male students known to be clutching student deferments, that phenomenon does not track closely with the subsequent, more wide-spread phenomenon of "grade inflation." More significantly, to me, is the rhetorical force of charges of "grade inflation." This has caught on like the "Peter Principle" of yore, by which each was encouraged to see another as somebody who had been promoted to his or her maximum level of incompetence. While I continually hear professors complain of "grade inflation," I seldom hear anybody say, "I have been inflating grades for years, and it's a terrible thing. I should stop at once." The grade inflation seems always to be going on in someone else's grade book. What might bear investigating is the fact that SAT scores suffered a depression during the time period that witnessed a massive expansion of the population aiming itself toward college, while grades on average went up. and somehow that hasn't been generally taken as a reason to question the predictive powers of the SAT. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " chaos is not our condition." --Charles Olson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:43:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ram=20Devineni?= Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?George=20Bradley=2C=20Rick=20Pernod=20=26=20Michael=20T=2E=20Young=20reading?= In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20011029114304.011c1320@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George Bradley, Rick Pernod & Michael T. Young DATE: November 3, 2001 TIME: 2:00 pm St. Agnes Branch, 444 Amsterdam Ave., New York City FREE More info: http://www.rattapallax.com George Bradley is the The Fire Fetched Down : Poems, Of the Knowledge of Good and Evil : Poems and edited the The Yale Younger Poets Anthology and= has won the Peter I. B. Lavan Younger Poets Award in 1990. Rick Pernod is the founder and director of Exoterica, a Bronx- based lite= rary organization that produces the award-winning "Poetry at the Poor Mouth" series, now in its seventh year. For his own widely published poetry, Ric= k Pernod has won awards from the Bronx Council on the Arts and, most recent= ly, from the Academy of American Poets. He has been a featured performer in venues from California to Prague, and a new recording of his poetry, The Monkey Trap, was released this past year. Michael T. Young's work has appeared in Rattapallax, Pivot, The Hollins Critic, Folio, The Christian Science Monitor, and many others. His chapbo= ok, Because the Wind Has Questions, was published in 1997 by Somers Rock Pres= s. He was a semi-finalist for the "Discovery"/The Nation contest in 1992 and= also received honorable mention for the Catalina Paez and Seamus McManus Award which is given by Hunter College and sponsored by The Academy of Am= erican Poets. His first collection, Transcriptions of Daylight, was published by= Rattapallax Press. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:17:04 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Davis & Olin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everybody, Just want to past this on. > November 5 Jordan Davis & Jeni Olin > > KGB Bar > Mondays at 7:30 p.m. > in the red room > 85 East 4th Street (near Second Avenue) > NYC > 212.505.3360 > Free! > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:20:54 -0500 Reply-To: Fleda Brown Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Linda Russell Subject: Brown - Delaware's Poet Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Fleda Brown, University of Delaware Professor, is the first named Poet Laureate for the State of Delaware. Gov. Minner presented the award to Fleda on Friday, October 26th, at the Arts Summit in Dover. "She will serve as the state's poetry advocate, promoting poetry and creativity through out Delaware," Minner said. In her acceptance speech, Fleda talked about what real poetry is to her. She said: "What poetry and all the arts do for us is look below the surface of experience, look below our tendency to rely on cliche as an easy way to explain what our experience means. Good poems reject cliche. That's why oppressive regimes have always been afraid of poets. Radical, fundamentalist regimes like the Taliban, like the Bolsheviks in Russia, have needed people to accept what they're told, to repeat the religiously or politically correct clich until they believe it. Real poetry takes risks with language, which is really taking risks with experience. Real poetry finds a different reality, not the easy one. Sometimes what it sees is beautiful, sometimes it's not. We writers have to think hard and learn to be very precise with language so that we don't get sidetracked by glib phrases. Real poetry is always beautiful in the language of the kind of truth that comes from what the poet William Butler Yeats called the "rag-and-bone shop of the heart." Fleda also read her poem "For the Inauguration of William Jefferson Clinton, 1997" to the audience. The nomination committee, (three out-of-state professionals in the field of poetry) chose Fleda from a slate of six finalists. Criteria included quality of work, influence over other writers, a national and statewide reputation, a commitment to literature and poetry education, and an ability to represent the State of Delaware in public functions. (Write to Fleda by using your "R" function from this email or addressing your email to her at fleda@udel.edu.) Linda ------------------------------------------------------------- Linda H. Russell Phone: 302-831-1974 Assistant to the Chair Fax: 302-831-1586 206 Memorial Hall Sigma Tau Delta Advisor Department of English www.english.udel.edu/sigmatau/ University of Delaware Dept. Calendar Webmaster Newark, DE 19716 www.english.udel.edu/lrussell/calendar.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:26:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios.kozaitis@VERIZON.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >X-Sender: wempad@mail.rockefeller.edu >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 >Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:18:03 -0500 >To: Anastasios Kozaitis >From: Danny Wempa >Subject: > > > > Bin Laden treated for kidney problem in Dubai, claims > report > > Osama bin Laden underwent treatment in July at the > American Hospital in Dubai where he met a > US Central Intelligence Agency official, French daily > Le Figaro and Radio France International > reported today. > > Quoting "a witness, a professional partner of the > administrative management of the hospital," they > said the man suspected by the United States of being > behind the September 11 terrorist attacks had > arrived in Dubai on July 4 by air from Quetta, Pakistan. > > He was immediately taken to the hospital for kidney > treatment. He left the establishment on July > 14, Le Figaro said. > > During his stay, the daily said, the local CIA > representative was seen going into bin Laden's room > and "a few days later, the CIA man boasted to some > friends of having visited the Saudi-born > millionaire." > > Quoting "an authoritative source," Le Figaro and the > radio station said the CIA representative had > been recalled to Washington on July 15. > > Bin Laden has been sought by the United States for > terrorism since the bombing of the US > embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998. But his CIA > links go back before that to the fight > against Soviet forces in Afghanistan. > > Le Figaro said bin Laden was accompanied in Dubai by > his personal physician and close > collaborator, who could be the Egyptian Ayman > al-Zawahari, as well as bodyguards and an > Algerian nurse. > > He was admitted to the urology department of Dr Terry > Callaway, who specialises in kidney stones > and male infertility. Telephoned several times, the > doctor declined to answer questions. > > Several sources had reported that bin Laden had a > serious kidney infection. He had a mobile > dialysis machine sent to his Kandahar hideout in > Afghanistan in the first half of 2000, according to > "authoritative sources" quoted by Le Figaro and RFI. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:37:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: What Is a Day [Satan?] In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011029232156.02b9d690@wheresmymailserver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV administrator wrote: > The eleventh day of the ninth month is an emergency. > In an emergency call 911. > > Satan the Joker. ------------------------------------------------------- Among the various amusing numerologies that have been wrung out of the spongey number 9-11, there was one that's been totally overlooked: The regulated "Hoist and Fly" (width to length) ratio of the American flag is 1:19 that is, obviously, 911 backwards. :) [So, Planet Bizarro retrograde terrorism?] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:54:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Bromige Subject: Re: WRYTING-L In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" zzzzzzzyed, please sign me on David Bromige ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:54:45 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Re: The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce Comments: cc: Austinwja@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/31/2001 3:25:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > And here is where this guy scares the shit out of me! I figured he would > give himself up sooner or later. It's always about power, isn't it? By > the > way, if everything he says about the grand conspiracy is true, that > wouldn't > surprise me either. Left, right, up, down, in, out -- What does Sean > Penn's > character say in The Thin Red Line? "Everything a lie. Everything you > hear, > everything you see. So much to spew out. They just keep on coming. One > after another. You're in a box. A moving box. They want you dead. Or in > their lie." Best, Bill > "Power doesn't exist in a vacuum." That this is a truism doesn't diminish its reality. The issue is not whether or not to have power, a really silly thought, but rather, who will have the power? How will the power be exercised? In what ways will the power manifest itself? Do we want those in power to lie and steal and murder in our names? I mean, real questions. So here's a fellow (MSgt Goff) who wants power to be administered in a more fair and humane way -- and he scares the shit out of Bill. Poor Bill; one wonders what bodily properties the current dispensers of power scare out of him? Or does Bill, and the rest of us, diffidently wash our hands of the whole power thing, and look for our wisdom in Sean Penn? Actually, of course, the quote doesn't belong to Penn, but to James Jones, and I can tell you that he knew something of the evil of power, particularly when it was in evil hands -- and I don't think that he would have equated MSgt Goff with the current ruling elites, whose exercise of power is directed towards the continued accumulation of massive wealth, and whatever they have to do to get it. Unlike MSgt Goff's suggestions, their motives are not predicated at any ethical level. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:29:39 -0400 Reply-To: whitebox@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: whitebox Organization: WHITEBOX Subject: WHITE BOX 'PINK" & CROSSPATHCULTURE events... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WHITE BOX presents... Opening reception: THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 1 - 6-8pm_____ Sighting: Three Japanese Artists, Part I* Curated by Reiko Tomii PINK: Recent Works by EMIKO KASAHARA (through 1 December)_________________________________ WHITE BOX 525 W 26TH ST NYC 10001 WWW.WHITEBOXNY.ORG hours: tues thru sat / 11am - 6pm ïThe Sighting exhibition is partially supported by The Peter Norton Family Foundation, The Japan Foundation, Alexandra Munroe and in-kind contribution by Digital Colors, Inc.+ Suraj Hansraj & Opening reception: SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 3 - 6-9pm______ A CROSS PATH CULTURE presentation: Corporeal (Exchanges) HUANG CHIH-YANG + GERARD PAS (through 28 November)_________________________________ at WHITE BOX -THE ANNEX 601 W 26TH ST 14F. NYC 10001 hours: tues thru sun / noon - 7pm WWW.CROSSPATHCULTURE.ORG info and rsvp 212.391.5685 & 212.291.5687 (to be deleted from the WHITEBOX e-mail address book, please reply with "delete me") ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:36:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: NYT ad for academic freedom vis a vis current developments Comments: To: gfcivil@stkate.edu, marxnow@hotmail.com, ruthnow@hotmail.com, zelda_g@email.msn.com, tracDmor@aol.com, funkhouser@tesla.njit.edu, cecivicu@rcn.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" please consider endorsing this ad. the contents of the letter below are somwhat alarming. bests, md PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY >> >>The following statement in defense of academic freedom is being >>circulated by concerned faculty members. If you would like to endorse >>the statement, please send your name, academic position and >>affiliation, and contact information to >>academicfreedomnow@hotmail.com. Non-academic endorsers are also >>welcome. >> >>We hope to publish the statement as a full page ad in the New York >>Times and possibly other media outlets with the names of hundreds or >>thousands of endorsers. The cost will be many thousands of dollars. >>If you would like to make a contribution towards the cost of >>publishing the statement, please send a check to: >> >>Center for Economic Research and Social Change >>P.O. Box 258082 >>Chicago, IL 60625 >> >>Mark your check "Academic Freedom Ad". >> >>Please contact the email address above if you have any questions or >>comments. >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>- >> >>To fellow teachers and staff members: >> >>In the crisis precipitated by the terrible events of September 11, >>members of academic communities across the U.S. have participated in >>teach-ins, colloquia, demonstrations, and other events aimed at >>developing an informed critical understanding of what happened and >>why. Now that the U.S. is waging war in Afghanistan, such activities >>are continuing. >> >>Unfortunately, some participants in these events have been threatened >>and attacked for speaking out. Trustees of the City University of New >>York are planning formal denunciations of faculty members who >>criticized U.S. foreign policy at a teach-in during the first week in >>October. There have been similar efforts to silence criticism and >>dissent at the University of Texas at Austin, MIT, the University of >>North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the University of Massachusetts at >>Amherst, and elsewhere. AAUP director of public policy Ruth Flower >>told the Boston Globe on October 6, "We're watching these >>developments with a lot of concern." >> >>Attacks on faculty who have questioned or dissented from the Bush >>administration's current war policy have coincided with other ominous >>developments. Colleges and universities are being pressured by >>agencies of the federal government to hand over confidential >>information from student files. And there are moves in Congress to >>limit visas for students from abroad. >> >>We call on all members of the academic community to speak out >>strongly in defense of academic freedom and civil liberties, not just >>as an abstract principle but as a practical necessity. At a moment >>such as this we must make sure that all informed voices-especially >>those that are critical and dissenting-are heard. >> >>Anatole Anton Professor of Philosophy, San Francisco State University >> >>Dana Cloud Associate Professor of Communication, University of Texas >>at Austin >> >>Donna Flayhan Assistant Professor of Communication & Media Studies, >>Goucher College >> >>Phil Gasper Associate Professor of Philosophy, Notre Dame de Namur >>University >> >>Richard Gibson Associate Professor of Social Studies, San Diego State >>University >> >>William Keach Professor of English, Brown University >> >>Tom Lewis Professor of Spanish, University of Iowa >> >>Edward Said University Professor, Columbia University ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:58:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Long Subject: New Addition to 2River Chapbook Series Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, Cafe BLue MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed 2River today released its latest addition to the 2River Chapbook Series, the Gospel according to Thomas, a cycle of poems by kris kahn, in which he explores the paradoxical intimacy that comes with loss. You can read it by going to http://www.2River.org where you'll see a link to the chapbook. Richard Long ====== 2River rlong@2River.org http://www.2River.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:43:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Genocide Scholar "Silenced" Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, Psyche-Arts@academyanalyticarts.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit October 26, 2001 Genocide Scholar "Silenced" on Academic List For Comments About Bombing of Afghanistan By CounterPunch Wire Genocide scholar Adam Jones claims he has been "silenced" on H-Genocide, an academic mailing list for the genocide-studies community, after attempting to post materials and commentary on the U.S.-led military campaign against Afghanistan. Jones, 38, is a Canadian professor of international studies at the Center for Research and Teaching in Economics (CIDE) in Mexico City. He is executive director of Gendercide Watch, a Web-based educational initiative that confronts gender-selective atrocities against men and women worldwide. In three consecutive rejected posts to the H-Genocide list, to which he subscribes, Jones cited testimony from humanitarian organizations and United Nations staffers to the effect that the bombing campaign against Afghanistan was the major impediment to the delivery of desperately-needed food aid to the Afghan civilian population. In the first post (12 October 2001), Jones asked: "If coalition leaders are aware of the present situation, as most of the major humanitarian agencies and international media appear to be, and choose to continue the bombing in coming weeks ... could any resulting largescale mortality legitimately be termed genocidal?" (For the full text of the rejected posts, and correspondence with the H-Genocide list editor, see http://adamjones.freeservers.com/h-genocide.html.) Jones has also been outspokenly critical of the Taliban regime's attempts to impede the delivery of humanitarian aid. In his second rejected post to H-Genocide (22 October 2001), he expressed "strong criticism of the Taliban's recent behaviour towards foreign aid-workers, local staff, and food stocks in the country. If the Allies are indeed angling for genocide, the Taliban, with their harassment, assaults, and seizures, seem more than prepared to play the same 'game'." List editor Alan Jacobs' reply to Jones's second attempted post stated that the H-Genocide editorial board's "overwhelming opinion was that we were not going to publish a message that escalated the human tragedy that is developing to the status of genocide. This was seen ... [as] a rather large error." In response, Jones wrote (in the third rejected post, 23 October 2001): "There seems to me a fundamental question to be asked here. Is it up to the list editors to decide what can legitimately be considered a genocide and which interpretations are 'erroneous,' and to accept or reject posts on this basis? Is not the appropriate place to discuss and debate this issue the list itself?" "TERRORIST APOLOGISM" The visceral response of the H-Genocide editors to posts perceived as "anti-American" was amply on display in the invective they directed against Jones. In excerpted comments from their decisions, forwarded to Jones at his request on 24 October 2001, editorial board members referred to him as "a loose cannon" whose writings were "libelous and disgraceful" and evoked "anger and revulsion"; and who taught at "a hot-bed of anti-American and anti-Western thought." (Jones's institution, CIDE, is in fact a small, exceedingly mainstream research institute in the Mexican capital.) One editorial-board member accused Jones of "terrorist apologism [of the type] that is unfortunately becoming popular among the enemies of this great country [i.e., the United States]," while another claimed he is "simply sophomoric or ... intentionally manipulative." Eight out of nine list editors are based in the United States. The rejection of the posts, and the editorial board's comments about Jones, have generated significant controversy in the genocide-studies community. In a message to list editor Jacobs (25 October 2001), Norwegian scholar Hans Egil Offerdal wrote: "The responses that the editorial board has given is [sic] based on prejudice and a political philosophy that at best can be described as reactionary." British genocide scholar Mark Levene also wrote to Jacobs on 25 October 2001: "If there is any scholarly arena where ... the right to free opinion should be upheld it is surely in the field of [genocide] studies. In this context your committee's muzzling of Dr Jones' views is nothing short of outrageous." The "muzzling" is part of a broader pattern, according to Thomas Taaffe of the University of Massachusetts. "Censorship of any comments which even seem to criticize U.S. foreign policy has been rampant on this supposedly international listserve [H-Genocide], while others have had free reign to advocate military action against the Taliban, even before the events of September 11th. It is quite ironic for a listserve supposedly dedicated to preserving life." (Message to Jones, 25 October 2001.) In response to the apparent censorship on H-Genocide, Jones and others have created a new mailing list, Genocide_Studies, on Topica.com. Among its stated purposes is to "serve as an alternative outlet for posts rejected by the H-Genocide editorial board." "It's clear to me that what has taken place on H-Genocide in the past couple of weeks is nothing less than the politically-inspired censorship of alternative views," Jones stated from his office in Mexico City. "As such, it seems amply in keeping with the 'chill' that has descended over political discussion and debate in the United States, and elsewhere, since the atrocities of September 11. But it is particularly disturbing to see a censorious mindset reigning among editors of a mailing list that claims to 'make every effort to encourage a free exchange of ideas'. "This is doubly indefensible when, if the bleakest assessments are accurate, we could be facing mass civilian death on a scale seen only rarely, if ever, since the Second World War. To the extent that I and other genocide scholars and activists are able to call attention to the actions of the H-Genocide editors, this needs to serve the immeasurably larger purpose of generating urgent concern for the people of Afghanistan. The humanitarian crisis has been grossly underreported in the U.S. press so far. "It is a legitimate question whether mass death from starvation, crucially spurred by Allied bombing, could be called 'genocide'," Jones said. "I personally think it could. Other genocide specialists could reasonably disagree -- if they were allowed to hear the proposition put to them in the first place. It's a real shame that the discussion can't take place on H-Genocide. "But whatever terminology we use won't make a shred of difference to Afghans who have starved to death. It may already be too late to save hundreds of thousands of them. If it isn't, and even if it is, the coming days and weeks are critical. I very much hope that moral policies will prevail, and aid will reach those who need it. But I've seen no sign of this so far, and time is terrifyingly short." Relevant web links: H-Genocide mailing list: composition of editorial board: http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~genocide/editorial-board.html H-Genocide statement of editorial policy: http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~genocide/editorial-policy.html H-Genocide general information page: http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~genocide/ Genocide_Studies mailing list: http://www.topica.com/lists/genocide_studies Adam Jones can be reached by e-mail at adam.jones@cide.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:42:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: "the faculty never recovered" In-Reply-To: <63.d71afd.290f55a1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes. When I went to school at Columbia in 1990, there was a very small = gap gradewise between the best students and the worst. If your paper = was good, it got an A or an A-. If it was on topic and not totally = stupid but not good, it got a B+. If not good and the person couldn't = write, it was a B. And you had to really try to get a B-. C's were = unthinkable. This was less true in other subject areas than writing/English/etc. I = got a well-deserved C+ in Chinese because I hadn't been going over my = character flash cards enough because I was busy with math stuff. = Actually, I probably deserved an F and not a C+... but that would have = ruined my otherwise good transcript and everyone wanted me to get into = grad school :-( ... in other words thete was a lot of grade inflation. What I dfon't understand is why grade inflation is supposed to be so = bad. It makes people feel better to get a B than an F. And they still = know that the B is a bad grade, so it's not as if there is no way to = tell if your paper was good. I think complaints about grade inflation = come mostly from the people who got A's and want everyone to know that = _their_ A's were real, not inflated... Millie -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Austinwja@AOL.COM Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 8:00 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: "the faculty never recovered" In a message dated 10/29/01 3:01:52 PM, mprejsn@LAW.EMORY.EDU writes: << gee, there is no END to the evil that the anti-war movement brought about.... think of the damage we're doing by questioning Bush's current policies! ******* from yestrerday=E2=80=99s Boston Globe: ''Honors at Harvard has just lost all meaning,'' said Henry Rosovsky, a top dean and acting president at Harvard in the 1970s and '80s. ''The bad honors is spoiling the good.'' With Harvard's new president, Lawrence Summers, focused on improving undergraduate studies and set to deliver his inaugural address this Friday, the Globe reviewed the university's academic records and internal memos over the last 50 years to analyze the rigors and rewards of a Harvard education. The documents indicate that Vietnam and the protest movements of the '60s led to an increase in lax grading campuswide, and that the faculty never recovered. Harry Lewis, the current dean of Harvard College, wrote in one e-mail that humanities professors today can't tell an A paper from a B paper, partly because of a ''collapse of critical judgment.'' >> Actually there is some small truth to this, though Harry seems a bit=20 unhinged. During the Nam war, 2S student deferments kept the youngins = safe=20 from the draft. Sympathetc professors countrywide got into the habit of = not=20 failing students who should have failed, knowing that a few failing = grades=20 could suddenly transfer an undergrad to the school of jungle warfare. = Grade=20 inflation was the result. Academia has never issued a serious = correction,=20 but this is certainly not due solely to the war in the Nam. These days = the=20 culprit is more likely to be students who do not read, and so cannot = write. =20 If faculty routinely failed these students, colleges would close for = lack of=20 "customers." Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:53:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Enduring Peace In Mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Round the world is round the shaman & sages the singers & songmen have found that all that is going on is going on & on is going on in our mind & though excitement & sorrow sells endless proliferations of hell just how & where does the mind end up & do we really know what goes on what goes on & on round the world all around knowing only what they want us to know the same old stories everyone knows so what what do we know we know when we sit down & look inside the whole shebang in the mind so let us protect the mind from this terrorist quotidian drag down & find enduring peace in mind in thought in word indeed in kind conversation joyful of words uplifting of mind Reuven BenYuhmin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:59:10 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: breaking news-bin Laden secretly met with CIA Agent in July Comments: To: ImitaPo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.lefigaro.fr/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=Futu reTense/Apps/Xcelerate/View&c=figArticle&cid=FIGJMSRVETC&live=true&Site=true &gCurChannel=ZZZJTGN6J7C&gCurRubrique=ZZZ4GPM6J7C&gCurSubRubrique= (make sure to cut and paste the entire link into your browser's address window) (from _Le Figaro_ - how's your French? can someone translate this better than Babelfish?) Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:07:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: help -- need apartment in Buffalo NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Can anyone in the Buffalo NY area offer any help? I need an apartment quickly. I have been having a difficult time finding one - if anyone can help please email me at ggatza@daemen.edu or give a call 946-3049. Thanks, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:04:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Jabes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Jabes (trans. Waldrop): "For all my being bound to the French language, I know the place I occupy in the literature of France is not strictly speaking a place. It is not so much the place of a writer as of a book which does not fit any category. A place defined, then, by the book and immediately claimed by the book to follow. A place of writing vacated by what is written, as if every page of the book let us occupy it only to give access to the next page, as if the book made and unmade itself in an appropriated space which, once covered with words, becomes the space of the book. "And it is likewise within the large movement which has carried my works to their illusory completion. "There is no center. There is a point which engenders another point around which an eccentric utterance establishes itself, an interrogation develops. It is the point of no return. "This absence of place, as it were, I claim. It confirms that the book is my only habitat, the first and also the final. Place of a vaster non-place where I live." This I identify with. Every text of mine, like the Net of Indra, reflects every other. Each deals with, extends, the themes; the result, a family of themes, never returns to an illusory origin. Each moves in a direction as far as possible from the conception of a center. Each negates the tendency towards an absolute, constructs skeins or membranes where others might find ladders or stairs. The beds are tilted; the windows don't close, the doors are always open. The night that is upon us is also the day; the day has many suns. It doesn't stop there. I close my eyes; I create the objects of which I claim witness. They smell of musk. === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:18:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Peace in Our Time In-Reply-To: <011601c160b7$a93fd8e0$0a1a86d4@overgrowngarden> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >----- Original Message ----- >From: "david antin" >To: >Sent: 24 October 2001 18:42 >Subject: Peace in Our Time > > >| The >| suggestion that the attack on Afghanistan is about oil is ridiculous. > >Why? Oh, have the Yabnks and Russians agreed after all that that pipeline can go thru Russia? Or does the Iran route now make sense to the US? -- George Bowering Your companion in the written arts. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 02:12:27 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: the end of it MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen. Come out with it! What's your secret: have you got a word-combining-poetryandwordcomplexgenerating-brilliantlyoriginalgenius computer linked up to theInternet!! You must America's most original writer alive - someone found you boring: that person must be a pretty boring person to be so bored...my only "complaint" is that there is "too much". (I mean I cant keep up with it all - dont know what you're on about but it looks very very impressive!) Just dont know how you do it... I've forgotton the "technical" explanation of "langue": can anyone enlighten me in these less than enlightened times? Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: the end of it > (these nested recursions fascinate me; this is about the maximum i could > pull out - it's still decipherable, but barely. the langue turns languor- > ous, the words expand and breathe, the textual body writhes, turns away > from reading, almost in shame, detumescence) > > > (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(o(aye))((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))nn) > (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(o(aye))((dee)(o(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye))) > (be(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))(e(aye)e(aye)) > ((dee)(o(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(be(aye)) > ((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))(e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(e(aye)e(ay > e)))(aye)((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))(dee)((e(aye)e(aye))ss) > ((e(aye)e(aye))ss)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(be(aye)) > (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(e(aye)e(aye))((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye))) > ((e(aye)e(aye))ph)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(g(e(aye)e(aye)) > (e(aye)e(aye)))(e(aye)e(aye)) > ((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))(t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye)) > (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(e(aye)e(aye)) > ((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))ss) > ((aye)it(se(aye))h)((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))(dee)(e(aye)e(aye)) > (aye)((e(aye)e(aye))nn)(dee) > ((e(aye)e(aye))ss)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))l) > ((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))nn) > > ((e(aye)e(aye))nn)(e(aye)e(aye))v(e(aye)e(aye))((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye))) > (aye)(be(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))(dee)(e(aye)e(aye)) > (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(o(aye))((dee)(o(aye)) > ((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(be(aye)) > ((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye))(e(aye)e(aye))((dee)(o(aye)) > ((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(be(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye)) > (e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(e(aye)e(ay > e)))(aye)((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))(dee)((e(aye)e(aye))ss) > (dee)((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))ss) > ((e(aye)e(aye))ss)(e(aye)e(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))mm) > ((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))((e(aye)e(aye))nn)(aye) > (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))y(e(aye)e(aye)))(o(aye)) > ((e(aye)e(aye))nn) > (aye)((e(aye)e(aye))nn)(dee) > (t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))((aye)it(se(aye))h)(e(aye)e(aye)) > (p(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))l)(e(aye)e(aye)) > (aye)((e(aye)e(aye))ss)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye))) > ((aye)r(e(aye)e(aye)))(e(aye)e(aye)) > (o(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))ph) > ((e(aye)e(aye))mm)((e(aye)e(aye))w(e(aye)e(aye)))(t(e(aye)e(aye))(aye)) > (e(aye)e(aye)) > (p(e(aye)e(aye))(aye))(o(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))l)((e(aye)e(aye))l) > (e(aye)e(aye))((e(aye)e(aye))nn) > > > _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:28:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Israel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > | I think that the vision of Israel has real value. Where they went wrong is > | when they began to forget where they came from. While I am not a total > | Zionist I think that the fact that the Jews do a have a safe haven is > | important. I'm not sure who wrote this, as there were two signatures above, but I don't agree. I think that the Jews as wanderers, as outsiders, as exiles, as thorns in the Christian myth, as "Keepers of the Book," had value, morally and poetically, that they've lost. Strangely, I agree with the ultra-orthodox rabbis here, who say that Israel is not a place, but a belief. Now with territory to defend, the Jews, at least the Israelis, have become like everyone else. Before they defended themselves with great intellect, learning, ideas. Now kill instead of teach, which make them the same as most everyone. Pity. There is no safe haven for anyone, anyway. -Joel Joel Weishaus Center for Excellence in Writing Portland State University Portland, Oregon. http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:53:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Fwd: Filmmaker Tahmineh Milani Faces Execution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -> Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 12:39:07 -0800 > Subject: Filmmaker Tahmineh Milani Faces Execution > > FIPRESCI informs > > FILMMAKER TAHMINEH MILANI FACES EXECUTION > >> > >>Fellow Filmmakers Express Solidarity with Her - > International Group > >>Includes Jamsheed Akrami, Francis Ford Coppola, > Carlos Diegues, Ali > >>Kazimi, Hanif Kureishi, Ang Lee, Raoul Peck, > Martin Scorsese, Steven > >>Soderbergh, and Many Others. > >> > >> > >>Iranian Filmmaker Tahmineh Milani, who was > arrested then released on > >>bail earlier this fall, faces execution if > convicted in an upcoming > >>trial in Tehran. > >> > >>Ms. Milani was arrested on the orders of Iran's > Revolutionary Council > >>as she was promoting the film The Hidden Half, > which she wrote and > >>directed. The Hidden Half depicts internal > struggle within Iran soon > >>after the 1979 Islamic Revolution. Ms. Milani has > been charged with > >>supporting factions waging war against God, and > misusing the arts in > >>support of counterrevolutionary and armed > opposition groups. The > >>Revolutionary Council has previously ordered the > arrest of > >>journalists and other cultural figures, but this > is the first time it > >>has taken direct action against a filmmaker. > >> > >>One of Iran's best-known filmmakers, Tahmineh > Milani has written and > >>directed films including The Legend of a Sigh > (1991), What Else Is > >>New? (1992), and Two Women (1999), in addition to > The Hidden Half > >>(2001). She is well-known for taking strong > feminist positions in > >>both films and public appearances. > >> > >>Mr. Mohammad Khatami, the President of Iran, > personally supported Ms. > >>Milani's release on bail. Like all domestically > produced Iranian > >>films, The Hidden Half went through intense > censorship processes. It > >>was then approved by the Ministry of Culture and > released to > >>theatres. For the director then to be arrested for > the content of the > >>film seemed, as Mr. Khatami himself put it at the > time, unfair to say > >>the least. > >> > >> > >>Facets Multimedia of Chicago released a > declaration of solidarity > >>with Ms. Milani signed by dozens of filmmakers > from around the world. > >>The filmmakers who have signed include such > eminent directors as > >>Jamsheed Akrami, Hisham Bizri, John Boorman, > Francis Ford Coppola, > >>Jonathan Demme, Carlos Diegues, Ali Kazimi, Hanif > Kureishi, Ang Lee, > >>Spike Lee, Lucrecia Martel, Raoul Peck, Martin > Scorsese, Steven > >>Soderbergh, Oliver Stone, plus many other > directors, producers, > >>actors, and other filmmakers. The filmmakers come > from across the > >>Middle East, North America, Asia, Europe, and > South America. > >> > >>The declaration has been sent to Mr. Ayatollah > Khamenei, the Supreme > >>Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran; Mr. > Mohammad Khatami, the > >>President of Iran; Mr. Mahmoud Hashemi Shahrudi, > the Head of the > >>Judiciary; Mr. Masjed Jamee, the Minister of > Culture and Islamic > >>Guidance; and many other dignitaries and > interested parties. > >> > >>Facets Multimedia coordinated this declaration of > solidarity because > >>of long-time commitments to promoting and > distributing Iranian > >>cinema, to human rights, and to the freedom of > artists. > >> > >>Other filmmakers, organizations, and individuals > who would like to > >>express their solidarity with Ms. Milani are > invited to send faxes to > >>His Excellency Mr. Mohammad Khatami, President of > the Islamic > >>Republic of Iran, at 98 21 649 5886; His > Excellency Mr. Mahmoud > >>Hashemi Shahrudi, Minister of Justice, at 98 21 > 646 5242; His > >>Excellency Mr. Masjed Jamee, Minister of Culture > and Islamic > >>Guidance, at 98 21 391 3535; Mr. Mohebbi, > President of the Farabi > >>Cinema Foundation, at 98 21 670 8155; and Ray > Privett of Facets > >>Multimedia at 1 773 929 5437. They are also > invited to sign the > >>petition online at www.facets.org/petition.html, a > website with links > >>that will be updated as new information related to > Ms. Tahmineh > >>Milani's case becomes available. > >> > >>An article offering more information about > Tahmineh Milani's case > >>appeared in the October 26, 2001 edition of The > Los Angeles Times. > >> > >>For further information, please contact Ray > Privett at 1 800 331 6197 > >>or ray@facets.org. > >> > >> > >>The Declaration of Solidarity reads as follows: > >> > >>FILMMAKERS STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH TAHMINEH > MILANI > >> > >>As fellow members of the film community we were > outraged to learn of > >>the recent arrest of Tahmineh Milani by the > Islamic Government of > >>Iran. This is the first time the current Iranian > government has taken > >>such action against a filmmaker. Although she has > been released on > >>bail, charges against her have not been dropped. > We wish to express > >>our solidarity with her. > >> > >>John Akomfrah, Jamsheed Akrami, Angela Alston, Roy > Andersson, Ben > >>Barenholtz, Alan Berliner, Hisham Bizri, Peter > Bogdanovich, John > >>Boorman, St. Clair Bourne, Geoff Bowie, Catherine > Breillat, Alden > >>Brigham, Charles Burnett, Laura Colella, Francis > Ford Coppola, Sofia > >>Coppola, Guillermo del Toro, Jonathan Demme, > Dominique Deruddere, > >>Carlos Diegues, Faye Dunaway, Morgan Evans, > Leonard Farlinger, Harun > >>Farocki, Ivan Fila, James Fotopoulos, William > Friedkin, Richard Fung, > >>John Gianvito, Jill Godmilow, Marina Goldovskaya, > Gaylene Gould, Lina > >>Gopaul, John Greyson, Rajko Grlic, Erik Gunneson, > David Hare, Joseph > >>Hillel, Agnieszka Holland, Ted Hope, Richard > Horowitz, Magnus > >>Isacsson, Sharifa Johka, Jennifer Jonas, Jon Jost, > Peter Kaufman, > >>Philip Kaufman, Kees Kasander, Lawrence Kasdan, > Michael Kastenbaum, > >>Ali Kazimi, Hanif Kureishi, Valerie Lalonde, David > Lawson, Richard > >>Leacock, Ang Lee, Helen Lee, Spike Lee, Nancy > Lefkowitz, Mike Leigh, > >>Joshua Leonard, Steven Lippman, Lech Majewski, > Dusan Makavejev, Chris > >>Marker, Loren Marsh, Lucrecia Martel, Pier Marton, > Jim McKay, Nina > >>Menkes, Joe Moulins, Jag Mohan Mundhra, Alice > Nellis, Jan Nemec, > >>Denise Ohio, Katrin Ottarsdottir, Raoul Peck, > Robin Wright Penn, Sean > >>Penn, Marguerite Pigott, Mark Rappaport, Pen-ek > Ratanaruang, Julia > >>Reichert, Francoise Romand, Shiva Rose, Ken > Russell, Helma > >>Sanders-Brahms, James Schamus, Richard Schenkman, > Paul Schrader, > >>Barbet Schroeder, Sandra Schulberg, Martin > Scorsese, Peter Sellars, > >>Franci Slak, Steven Soderbergh, Ines Sommer, > Stanislav Stanojevic, > >>Jos Stelling, Oliver Stone, Leslie Thornton, > Blaine Thurier, Jacob > >>Tierney, John Walker, Karen Walton, Elizabeth > Westrate, Bellamy Young. > > >> > >>--------------------- > >>Forwarded by FIPRESCI > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Klaus Eder > >>FÈdÈration Internationale > >>de la Presse CinÈmatographique > >>(FIPRESCI) > >>Schleissheimer Str. 83 > >>D-80797 Munich > >>T +49 (89) 18 23 03 > >>Cell +49 (172) 850 53 02 > >>F +49 (89) 18 47 66 > >>keder@fipresci.org > >> > > > >__________________________________________ > >51st Melbourne International Film Festival > >24 JULY - 11 AUGUST 2002 > >PO Box 2206 > >Fitzroy Mail Centre 3065 > >Melbourne Australia > > > >Tel. +61 3 9417 2011 > >Fax. +61 3 9417 3804 > >miff@vicnet.net.au > >http://www.melbournefilmfestival.com.au > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 03:21:58 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: More Zizek on WTC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frederick AND The List. . This was very interesting: somewhere between the extreme concept of a deliberate plot within the US and one from the "Outside": "the desert of the real"...its interesting how this is like a virtual reality (or irreality) and a movie where Sondheim's recursives might be as appropriate as anything...a "poetic war"...getting like a lot of the fantasy books and films, even like something from Swift: some strange darkness pervading: Bin laden speaks poetically, Bush invokes poetry and rhetoric, so do the Taleban: "we will bury their skulls in the montains ".... sounds like something said by Sargon or one of those early conquerers: or patches from a hodge-podge of hollywood scipts, some good, some bad....makes me want to get the video of "the Matrix ' and look at that film again...also I think of "Star Wars"... I think that the US, the whole World should have had a very long and large conference involving A Quaeda and many others such as the Palestinians. The US and the British needed to discuss not who to attack but they needed to find out why these attacks took place without any question of a useless retaliation (terrible as it has been I know for the people of the US and New York I'm not unfeeling for that: I wouldnt be so concerned and so voluble (and I know often contradictory) about this if I didnt care about people - including cleaners accountants - ANYONE - and others their lives) ..dare I say it the US Britain and the other nations might have to actually accede to some of the demands: Bin Laden (and the Palestinians) wants peace and some justice in Isreal: let the US and Israel and everyone show him - assure him in the ways he wants that something real is being done: the US might have to cut any ties with Israel and so on. Military weaponry pulled BACK from any where near the Middle East. Dismantled: maoney spent more on humane science. Instead of this monstously - obscenely expensive new killing machine with wings: probably aid to Africa, Asia, south America and the East setting those countries up and son. Less political interference. Not "Imperilaism as Aid". Real help. A real look at the issues: poverty outside and inside Western nations, poverty and AIDs everywhere, economic difficulties, the fact that there IS a class war continuing: Communism still as a viable option (after all Communism has NOT been destroyed: an idea can't collapse..certain countries that called themsleves Communist are in (more or less disarray)) as Communisim means sharing and it is also ultimately very efficient. The motivation becmes production for and by the people: the need for wars declines as more and more people slowly gain a better standard of living and live in a cooperative and somewhat a competitive environment. India in contrast to China immediately shows how Communism DOES work: or at least socialisation of the country and some progress in education, standards of living etc (The Indian army is making raids into Kashmir and women are bing killed and raped and others are being killed: so India is another country that needs to be looked at as well as th US and China and son on: Evryone Evrywhere) . To the extent that it isnt working in China is because of counter revolutionary forces, not because communism is impossible or undesirable in the long term. The control at all levels by the people of the means of production may mean that the Bush's and the Bill Gates's and the big Capitalists each have to take pay cuts and live "frugally" but they wont be any less happy. As the people of the world gradually become better educated the struggle against capitalism is (and will) accelerate....to sanitise it people have used the term "globalisation" translate that to "capitalist imperialism by international corporations" with the "major player" being the United States (currently "in charge" of the pretty dodgily named "United Nations") .... No, David Antin is quite wrong: the destruction even of the Nazis didnt lead to a "better " world because the fundamental problems were not "addressed": wars continued, the US took over the inperialist role of Britain Germany France etc the working class need now to enjoin the struggle against capitalism which is currently very weak: so weak that it is making an insane "dash" to Afghanistan to Bury its Skull there. Whatever the outcome: it will be a hard and bitter Winter. As Mao Tse Tung said: "The Imperialists lift a rock only to drop it on their own heads which they repeat until their doom". Or they can discuss and NOT attack - assuming that anyone is actually a candidate for an attack. As the war drags on, and skulls get buried, people will realise that terrorism (or the possiblilities of its enactment), will actually get more vicious when (ultimately) there is another retaliation (or another Bush or his cohorts organise another attack if we can buy into that senario - who knows?) I say these things because I would rather things got better not worse: Antin is frightened. So am I: but my rational side tells me that war of any kind by the Imperialists is useless: the American people and the great things of American and Western culture will be sacrificed to the interests of Paranoid Capitalism. But this was a very interesting link. Thanks. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fredrik Hertzberg LIT" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: More Zizek on WTC > At > http://www.inthesetimes.com/web2524/zizek2524.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 03:25:32 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Peace in Our Time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In this respect Bush was quoted before S11 of wanting or boasting that the US would "open the spigot". Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Upton" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Peace in Our Time > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "david antin" > To: > Sent: 24 October 2001 18:42 > Subject: Peace in Our Time > > > | The > | suggestion that the attack on Afghanistan is about oil is ridiculous. > > Why? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:20:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Italian Futurism and war In-Reply-To: <011501c160b7$a644e860$0a1a86d4@overgrowngarden> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ray Bianchi" >To: >Sent: 24 October 2001 02:03 >Subject: Italian Futurism and war > > >| I think that this response >| is justified. Just as our fight against Germany and Japan was justified. Your response to Germany and Japan was 2.5 years after we were fighting fascism. Of course that was better than WWI, when you were three years late. -- George Bowering Your companion in the written arts. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:04:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: "What Is a Day" by Ann Lauterbach Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The "from" line in "What Is a Day?" was hidden due to a technical problem. "What Is a Day?" is by Ann Lauterbach . (Lauterbach's post is now archived at http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0110&L=poetics&D=1&O=D&F=& S=&P=66479.) Check out the new new Lauterbach home page at the EPC http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/lauterbach/