========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:19:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <20020329053638.18004.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got an index poem called "Glenn Gould, the Life and Times of." Backchannel me your email address, and I'll send you a copy if you're interested in seeing it. It was in *Synaesthetic* 2, if you've got that. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { Hi, { { Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? { Has listing as a technique been examined critically { anywhere? Thanks. { { Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding { publishing on demand. { { Pete ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:35:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <20020329053638.18004.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII It's undeniable that Zukofsky used the index as an artistic form in "A" -- in its early manifestations he only indexed articles ("an","the"), and later he compiled an extensive "Index of Names & Objects" that serves as a map to the poem. Your question also makes me think of Peter Gizzi's fine Ode: Salute to the New York School, published in Chain 4. Here the bibliography is an important component -- not an index, although the listings are indexed to lines in the poem. Damian On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:36:38 -0800 Pete Balestrieri wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? > Has listing as a technique been examined critically > anywhere? Thanks. > > Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding > publishing on demand. > > Pete > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english/ institute for advanced technology in the humanities university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:50:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <20020329053638.18004.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed By the time this reaches the list, I expect several will have chimed in with Zukofsky's marvelous index to "A", with its entries for "wrist," "thought," "tohuy bohu" etc. Not to be overlooked is the index to David Bromige's RED HATS -- At 09:36 PM 3/28/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, > >Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? >Has listing as a technique been examined critically >anywhere? Thanks. > >Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding >publishing on demand. > >Pete > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover >http://greetings.yahoo.com/ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You made a mistake. You did something wrong. Now make another mistake, and do something right." --Sun Ra Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:48:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing Now -- April 5-7, San Francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic presents Friday through Sunday, April 5, 6, 7, 2002 Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing Now Small Press Traffic presents Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing Now, a conference celebrating and discussing current practices in Native American literature(s), and patterns in writing by Native Americans, with Native American poets, writers and scholars representing nine Native nations: Laguna Pueblo, Navajo, Cherokee, Nez Perce, Suquamish, Mohawk, Dakota, Arapaho, and Chippewa. Our list of participants includes well established names as well as exciting newer ones. Biographies of conference participants -- Esther Belin, Diane Glancy, Reid Gómez, Inés Hernández-Ávila, Cedar Sigo, James Thomas Stevens, Kimberly TallBear, Gerald Vizenor, and XCP:Cross Cultural Poetics editor Mark Nowak -- as well as details on conference events, appear below. This conference is free and open to the public, and held at: Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at the California College of Arts and Crafts 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) Click here for directions. As the latest installment of SPT^Òs Series X, Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing Now will boldly continue to examine the uses of anarchy and tradition in literature and encourage the cross-pollination of creative thought and work across genre, media, and politically/culturally contested spaces of all sorts. Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing Now is supported by a generous grant from the San Francisco Arts Commission, and additional support from the California College of Arts & Crafts, Poets & Writers, & our Members. We are very grateful for this support. Conference Events * Friday, April 5, 2002 6 PM- 7:30 PM: RECEPTION 7:30 PM: READING by James Thomas Stevens, Inés Hernández-Ávila, Diane Glancy * Saturday, April 6, 2002 11 AM-1 PM: PANEL Conjuring with the Hand of Language How do you speak in a transcultural and/or intercultural voice? Panelists will discuss the uses of historical materials, multiple languages, and aspects of oral and written traditions. Moderated by Diane Glancy, with Esther Belin, Inés Hernández-Ávila, Cedar Sigo. 3 PM - 5 PM: PANEL Vocabularies of Contested Spaces Panelists will discuss how the new vocabulary being developed by Gerald Vizenor in his recent critical books informs their own critical and creative work. Additionally, writers will address how their overall writing practice and current projects engage and articulate issues of identity, gender/sexuality, class, and related cultural concerns. Moderated by Mark Nowak, with Diane Glancy, James Thomas Stevens, Gerald Vizenor. 7:30 PM: READING by Esther Belin, Kimberly TallBear, Reid Gómez, Cedar Sigo, & Gerald Vizenor * Sunday, April 7, 2002 11 AM - 1 PM: PANEL Choices & Practices for a New Generation A discussion of the concerns, methods, desires, and strategies of a new generation of Native writers. A conversation about choices, practices, definitions, and inspirations at this particular point in time. Moderated by Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, with Reid Gómez, Cedar Sigo, Kimberly TallBear. CLOSING RECEPTION IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE PANEL Participant Biographies Esther Belin^Òs first collection of poetry, From the Belly of My Beauty (University of Arizona/Sun Tracks, 1999) won an American Book Award. Her essays, poems, and stories have appeared in numerous publications, including the anthologies Neon Pow Wow, Speaking for the Generations:Native Writers on Writing, and Home is in the Blood. Born in 1968 and raised in Los Angeles, she asserts that the Navajo Nation has always been her homeland. A graduate of the Institute of American Indian Arts and UC Berkeley, Belin currently lives in Durango, Colorado. Diane Glancy is Professor of English at Macalester College in St. Paul, Minnesota, where she teaches Native American Literature and Creative Writing. Her latest novels are The Man Who Heard the Land (Minnesota Historical Society Press) and The Mask Maker (University of Oklahoma Press). Her recent collections of poetry include The Relief of America (Tia Chucha Press, 2000) and (Ado)ration (Chax Press, 1999). She received a Cherokee Medal of Honor in 2001 from the Cherokee Honor Society, Tahlequah, Oklahoma. Reid Gómez is an urban raised Navajo from the rock formerly known as Potrero Hill, San Francisco. Excerpts from Reid's novel A Woman's Body Was Found There are being published in the forthcoming The Oxford Anthology of Contemporary Fiction by Native American Women. She is working on another novel, Cebolla, and a book about American Indian Education. Inés Hernández-Ávila is a poet and scholar, currently teaching Native American women^Òs and Chicana literature at UC Davis. As Chair of the Department in the late 1990s, she was key in establishing the country^Òs first M.A. and Ph.D. program in Native American Studies. Hernández-Ávila is Nimipu/Nez Perce of Chief Joseph's band on her maternal side. She is an editor for the Wicazo Sa Review, a member of the board of directors of Frontiers: A Journal of Women's Studies, and a member of the Advisory Council for Public Programming for the National Museum of the American Indian. Mark Nowak's multidisciplinary work includes publications in anthropology, poetry/poetics, cultural studies, and photography. He is the author of a poetry collection, Revenants, co-editor with Diane Glancy of the acclaimed anthology Visit Teepee Town: Native Writings After the Detours (both from Coffee House Press), and editor of the journal Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics. Currently, Nowak is an Associate Professor of Humanities at the College of St. Catherine, where he teaches courses in Creative Writing, Folklore, and Documentary Studies. Cedar Sigo, born 1978, was raised on the Suquamish Reservation near Seattle, Washington. He studied at The Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at The Naropa Institute then moved to San Francisco in 1999. His first book of poetry, Goodnight Nurse, was published in 2001 by Angry Dog Press. He has given readings all over including The St. Marks Poetry Project, Intersection for the Arts, and The San Francisco Art Institute. He is currently editing the premier issue of Old Gold magazine. James Thomas Stevens is a member of the Akwesasne Mohawk tribe in upstate New York. Due to his family^Òs migration south, he was raised near his grandparents^Ò home on the Tuscarora Reservation. He attended the Institute of American Indian Arts, The Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at Naropa, and Brown University. Stevens is the author of Tokinish (First Intensity Press, 1994) and the forthcoming Combing the Snakes from His Hair (Michigan State University Press). He is a 2000 Whiting Writer^Òs Award winner and currently is Assistant Professor in English and American Indian Studies at the State University of New York College at Fredonia. Kimberly TallBear is Dakota and Arapaho and is a member of the Cheyenne & Arapaho Tribes of Oklahoma. She is an environmental planning consultant to two South Dakota tribes, and also a graduate student in the History of Consciousness Program at UC Santa Cruz, where her research focuses on race and tribal governance and how contemporary Native American poetry reflects or challenges racialized images. Her work has appeared in The Wicazo Sa Review, Five Fingers Review, North American Ideophonics, and elsewhere. She has presented her poetry in the United States, Japan, Java, Australia, and for the United Nations in Paris. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson is the author, under her first two names, of a collection of prose poems, Populace (Avec, 1999), and a novel, Eleanor Ramsey: the Queen of Cups (SFSU, 1997). Her LILYFOIL (or Boy & Girl Tramps of America) is available as an ebook from durationpress.com; a collection of her poetry, Chantry, will be published by Chax Press. She lives with her husband in Oakland and is of Cherokee, Irish, and Oklahoman persuasion on her mother^Òs side. She has served as director of Small Press Traffic since 2000. Gerald Vizenor is professor of Native American literature and American Studies at the University of California, Berkeley. He is the author of more than twenty books on native histories, literature, and critical studies, including The People Named the Chippewa and Manifest Manners. His most recent books are Hotline Healers: An Almost Browne Novel, and Fugitive Poses: Native American Scenes of Absence and Presence. Vizenor is series editor of American Indian Literature and Critical Studies at the University of Oklahoma Press. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 Eighth Street San Francisco, California 94107 415/551-9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:25:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Samantha Pinto Subject: Open Letters Reading: April 7th, Philadelphia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > > > >OPEN LETTERS READING > >featuring joey sweeney (philadelphia weekly) and davy rothbart (found > >magazine) > > > >open reading to follow. all types of correspondence welcome with extra > >points given for found texts. > > > >april 7 | 8 p.m. | fergie's pub 1214 sansom st. > > > > > > > >Joey Sweeney and Davy Rothbart featured at (the fourth ever) Open Letters > >Reading! > > > >Attention literate voyeurs: do you get a thrill hearing about other > >people¹s > >lives? Do you think other people would enjoy a glimpse into your life? Then > >head to (the fourth ever) Open Letters Reading on Sunday, April 7 at 8 p.m. > >upstairs in Fergie¹s Pub. > > > >Featured readers are Michigan-based artist Davy Rothbart and Philadelphia¹s > >own Joey Sweeney. Rothbart is the editor of Found Magazine, a print and > >online publication devoted to found images and text. Says Rothbart, "We > >collect love letters, birthday cards, kids' homework, to-do lists, ticket > >stubs, poetry on napkins, telephone bills, doodles­­anything that gives a > >glimpse into someone else's life." . This past fall, > >Rothbart completed a cross-country reading tour and is currently working on > >a film project. Joey Sweeney is a contributing editor at Philadelphia > >Weekly > >and the singer/songwriter in his very own indie rock band, the aptly named > >Trouble With Sweeney. In addition to his musings in the Weekly, Sweeney is > >a > >frequent contributor to Salon and Spin. Past Open Letters featured readers > >include Neal Pollack, Todd Levin, and Paul Tough. > > > >At an Open Letters Reading, audience members are invited participate by > >bringing whatever letters or emails they¹ve written or received or simply > >found somewhere. Letters may be funny or touching or even nasty as long as > >they are interesting. Last time, patrons shared old love letters, notes > >from > >pets, a few pointed emails, and a hilarious high school exchange between > >two > >old friends. Several letters from the last reading will be featured on an > >April 1st taping of "Live at the Kelly Writers House." > > > >This event is free, but its organizers would appreciate a $3 donation to > >help defer costs. Fergie¹s Pub is located at 1214 Sansom Street in > >Philadelphia. For more information, contact lettersreading@hotmail.com or > >call 215-545-9899 (evening) or 215-557-9300 (day). > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:10:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Index as a Form? Comments: cc: apowell10@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the latest issue of NEOTROPE, John Wurth uses the form in a story titled "a very few abc's of the late harold goldberger." You can find information on NEOTROPE at www.brokenboulder.com. Vernon Frazer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Balestrieri" To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:36 PM Subject: Index as a Form? > Hi, > > Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? > Has listing as a technique been examined critically > anywhere? Thanks. > > Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding > publishing on demand. > > Pete > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:14:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Violi. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Balestrieri" To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:36 PM Subject: Index as a Form? > Hi, > > Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? > Has listing as a technique been examined critically > anywhere? Thanks. > > Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding > publishing on demand. > > Pete > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:41:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: Fwd: Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing Now -- April 5-7, San Francisco Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sending this again (abbreviated version) in case of bouncing > >Small Press Traffic presents > >Friday through Sunday, April 5, 6, 7, 2002 > >Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing Now > > Small Press Traffic presents Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing >Now, a conference celebrating and discussing current practices in Native >American literature(s), and patterns in writing by Native Americans, with >Native American poets, writers and scholars representing nine Native >nations: Laguna Pueblo, Navajo, Cherokee, Nez Perce, Suquamish, Mohawk, >Dakota, Arapaho, and Chippewa. Our list of participants includes well >established names as well as exciting newer ones. Biographies of conference >participants -- Esther Belin, Diane Glancy, Reid Gómez, Inés >Hernández-Ávila, Cedar Sigo, James Thomas Stevens, Kimberly TallBear, >Gerald Vizenor, and XCP:Cross Cultural Poetics editor Mark Nowak -- as well >as details on conference events, appear online at http://www.sptraffic.org Elizabeth Treadwell http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:36:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Gass might hit list in his new _Tests of Time_ tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Balestrieri" To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 11:36 PM Subject: Index as a Form? > Hi, > > Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? > Has listing as a technique been examined critically > anywhere? Thanks. > > Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding > publishing on demand. > > Pete > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:44:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: memory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - memory it comes to me in the night. it's in the form of glowing cacti, golden arms. it a kernel or generator. something emerges, expands. i will write it down. or i will forget, feverish. now there is this image: the expanding golden man with spines. the concept of it, or the narrative, caressed in disappearance. i will write it down. i will type it out. weary, i will walk downstairs, waiting for you. if you are in my machine, glowing arms, i will hear you. if you are moving through my files, i will search you out. you are done with me, i will search you out. (i will write this text, you are trapped within it.) if you are in my machine, glowing arms, i will hear you.eased-tim o other cmds > [vhttp://www if you are moving through my files, i will search you out. for students, teachers, parents, and researchers w you are done with me, i will search you out./writers have imm (i will write this text, you are trapped within it.) 2002 12:20:58 -0500nel disfri mar 29 16:27:03 est 2002 disparities in health the moon is waning gibbous (98% of full) _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:00:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pete, didn't craig dworkin do a thing about indexes... at any rate, I know that house press out of Calgary, Alberta, Canada, just put out a chapbook based on the index as format... just can't remember if it was dworkin or not... I can email you the address if you'd like. Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Balestrieri" To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:36 PM Subject: Index as a Form? > Hi, > > Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? > Has listing as a technique been examined critically > anywhere? Thanks. > > Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding > publishing on demand. > > Pete > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:08:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Kept Back In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "And say not of a thing, 'Lo, I will do that on the morrow.' " Qur'an 18:24 Kept Back. 20 pages. Color cover and insides. Also black and white. Send $4 + stamps or propose a trade to: David Larsen 829 Park Way Oakland, CA 94606 "Unless 'if God will.' And should you forget this, remember your Lord and say, 'Maybe my Lord will guide me nearer to rightness than this.' "Qur'an 18:24 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:01:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Clay Subject: FIRECRACKER ALTERNATIVE BOOK AWARDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" THE 2002 FIRECRACKER ALTERNATIVE BOOK AWARDS NOMINATIONS AND BALLOT MAY BE FOUND AT http://www.firecrackerbooks.org IT IS WORTH A LOOK, WE THINK. DEADLINE FOR VOTING IS APRIL 20, 2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:54:37 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernadette Mayer commissioned me to Indicize her UTOPIA. Bob H Virtually Visit Bowery Poetry Club ! www.bowerypoetry.com 173 Duane St #2B NY NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 * F: 212-334-6415 Holman@bard.edu * bobholman.com * poetry.about.com * worldofpoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:04:13 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: Latest issue.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit o v e r l a n d/issue 166/m o r e t h a n a g a m e The sports issue - essays on sport, sport & indigenality, sport & homosexuality, why John Kinsella didn't play footy and much more... Also "Jacket" magazine in print ! A small feature with poems by Maxine Chernoff, Geraldine McKenzie, Alice Notley, Bronwyn Lea, Laurie Duggan, Michael Farrell, Linh Dinh, Gillian Conoley, Ron Silliman, Denis Gallagher, Eileen Myles, Michele Leggott & Rachel Loden Plus Lee Cataldi on IIO's number poems, and Kerry Leves reviews Cassie Lewis, Geraldine McKenzie, Phillip Hammial, Barry Hill, MTC Cronin & Lucy Williams and Laurie Duggan thinks about working class poetry Plus Marcia Langton on Aboriginality, place and The Left in her essay "Senses of Place" All this & more for only $12 little Aussie dollars - to buy a copy & for further information visit http://www.overlandexpress.org/166.html http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions - 1,000s of Bargains! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:18:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Del Ray Cross Subject: SHAMPOO issue Eleven MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Good Folks, The eleventh issue of SHAMPOO wants you to take a look at it. Please go immediately to: http://www.ShampooPoetry.com and dive into swell new poems from Dylan Willoughby, Nick Whittock, Lina ramona Vitkauskas, Eileen Tabios, Jared Stanley, Dipti Saravanamuttu, Charlie Rossiter, Barbara Jane Reyes, David Prater, Guillermo Juan Parra, Sheila E. Murphy, Joseph Victor Milford, Roberta A. McQueen, rob mclennan, Bob Marcacci, Rodney Koeneke, Stephen Kirbach, W.B. Keckler, Jill Jones, Noah Hoffenberg, Tom Hibbard, Rosemary Griggs, Jonathan Goodman, Photios Giovanis, Kevin Gallagher, Thomas Fink, Michael Farrell, Mark Ewert, John Erhardt, Margot Douaihy, Daniel Donaghy, C. Nolan Deweese, Todd Colby, Alissa Carrier, Dodie Bellamy, and William Allegrezza, along with groovin ShampooArt by Kirsten Patel. And check out the short report (with snapshots!) of SHAMPOO's first reading! April Showers make lots of lather, Del Ray Cross, Editor SHAMPOO clean hair / good poetry www.ShampooPoetry.com (if you'd like to be removed from this list, just let me know) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:04:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Evans Subject: Note to Contributors of the Impercipient Comments: cc: Jennifer.Moxley@maine.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Members of the Poetics List, I forward the following notice at the request of Jennifer Moxley: NOTICE TO IMPERCIPIENT CONTRIBUTORS: The 8 1/2" x 11" photocopied and stapled poetry magazine known as The Impercipient, and edited by Jennifer Moxley between the years 1992-1995 (eight issues total), is in the process of being archived electronically (and attractively) on the Arras web site. If you were a contributor to this magazine and DO NOT want your work reproduced in this context, please contact Jennifer Moxley at Jennifer.Moxley@Maine.edu or Brian Kim Stefans at bstefans@earthlink.net. As the intention of the archivist is to create an accurate historical record of the magazine as it originally appeared, please note that this is not an opportunity to rewrite. That said, the wishes of those who prefer not to have their work included in the electronic version will be respected, though your names will appear in the contents page along with a brief note indicating why the actual poems are missing. THANK YOU ALL! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:02:31 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: di Prima etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron & Listerologists. Aha. Thanks. Nash is clever...but not profound. One thing about the L=A=N=G movement was its intense study (actual or implied) of language: which is an extension of what Bill Manhire (he's actualy not as bad as I painted him!) does in his creative writing courses: but its an extension...like Hopkins was pushing things and later Olson and Creeley and before that Dickinson:in NZ the original was Kendrick Smithyman (A Curnow was a great mod-pstmodernist poet altho he hated being categorised I think (llike us all)) But Smithyman had an original gritty style which is unaggressively Aotearoan and also innovative (while his wife Mary Stanley write - quite sincerely beautiful poems they advance me no where..how do I put this?...)..But Smithyman ranges in a poem and he's talking about a place (and of course he's "in" his own mind and so on) but then he's in England (some parallel to what he's saying) and he leaves it for the reader to decipher, and he_has_ got something to say .. I dont konw if Graham has: put simply he was/is one of the gretest poets worldwide and innovative...but not much interested in Lanpo I dont think (if much aware ..although his knowledge was very extensive): but the point is he (like Manhire but possibly in a more self-consciously analytical way) was alert to language and every thing around: different poets not better: but what I gained from Langpo was the sense that there were people very seriously (there's a danger of becoming too dour about it all of course) and intensely into even grammatical meanings and shades and the meaning of what and why wordsand sentences are there or not ...of course others go into that from grammatical and linguistic study and quite different poetry - or look back continuously to the past for models (analyse it maybe too much) . The different poetry is good, or can be, but the complete rejection eg of Coolidge's "Polaroid" is unproductive: in some ways its a study of prepositions (my daughter's "coaching" me to teach English as a second language and she said prepare something round the prepositions of time - now, I need to know what and why they are (basically at least) but the student just needs practice - but in the course of looking into (book on grammar orig by Greenbaum) - suddenly there is a strangeness as a I concentrate on these words - suddenly I dont know as much as I thought about my own language (paradoxically and interestingly because I use it - hence dont normally need to know it per se).....but that concentration non detail and technique (while not the whole thing and not always exciting) is still in a deep sense a homage to the language which a poet or truth generator or maker needs at least to have some reverence fr: without as ai said becomeing too po about te whole thing. So Nash, Betjeman, etc have their place (although I supse theirovert politics might not agree me with (!) ......... henceI circling back: i dont tink that the "great" poets get recognised enough....its a typical phenomena with innovative and interesting writing. Stein, not Eliot eg, should have got the Nobel prics. Some thoughts, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" To: "'richard.tylr'" Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 3:54 AM Subject: RE: DiPrima, Troupe, Alarcon finalists for Cal. Poet Laureate > Billy Collins is the contemporary version of Ogden Nash or Edgar Guest. > But he is the Poet Laureate. Perfect choice for this political > administration. > > -----Original Message----- > From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz] > Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 6:19 AM > To: ron.silliman@gte.net > Subject: Re: DiPrima, Troupe, Alarcon finalists for Cal. Poet Laureate > > Ron & Listers. Is (sorry forgotten his name already) the Poet laureate > of > the US? An aquaintance said he was interviewed here in Auckland on > radio by > Kim Hill (who to be fair is discerning but wouldnt know much of writers > of > your ilk and (I think) quality) or the others in In The American Tree, > or > those eg in Hoover's "Post Modern..." or even such as Alan Sondheim who > is > surely quite an extraordinary phemonemna: a man in feverish media res: > and > many on this List and many not but who are not "known" as such .... the > guy > he mentioned had written a poem on or about why he doesnt own a gun; one > reason is the neighbours are away and the dog makes so much noise he > turns > up Beethoven's Ninth but then I think (as this guy relayed the story of > the > poem to me) the dog gets to becone a player in the orchestra (so I > suppose > the question now is - how does he get to shoot it or not) ....is his > name > Billy Connelly? > Sounds as if he's good, but probably nt someone I could "learn from" > (arrogant as that might sound: I mean that he doesnt sound my "cup of > going > in an exciting or interesting direction of poetic tea" but eg the > British > poet laureate's ...Masefield...ok one or two poems of some value...but > in > general - (well, motly crap), and let's use the word - great or majorly > significant poets are either neglected or...well they are usually never > poet > laureates. It seems to me a pathetic ego chase: I like the idea of guys > like > L Z or even Ronald Johnson of "Ark" being a "bit to one side" as Mark > Scroggins points out in "Louis Zukofsky".... I'm not a great fan of di > Prima, Ferlingetti, Levine: funadamentally they are "normative" and for > me a > bit boring: di Prima wont be able to do anything for the workers. It s a > lot > of crap her "animius" stuff: wet crap... Better that they wrestle with > more > "academic stuff": this is one bad aspect of "class gult" ...pandering > to > the LCD..better the Langpos, or Alan Sondheim, or even some one like > Bukowski (althohe's dead of course and he suffered from his image) .... > but > this terror of "diffculty" .... poetry of any value is almost always > going > to be difficult or if "simple" it is as good as Pound's "Those faces in > the > crowd...." > There is a Conspiracy of Dullness and Normalcy abroad: I am > automatically > suspicious of any prize winners: especially Laureates...I'm suspicioned > that > here also a lot of the poets such as Bill Manhire (New Zealand - and > from > that dubious city Wellington) (who was the Laureate) are basically > second > rate and certainly technicaly and formally unexiting and rather > passionless: > either there is no fire or the complexity is a facade: or they are > simply > too conventional, eschew intellection and invention because that gets > them > approbations and published and "oohs" and "aahs" : and the rest lack > conviction or go in for who they are knowing (or a re in clubs or > "closed > shops" and so on not what if anything). Maybe we need a new "Dunciad" > .... > a dash of Ed Dorn, a seasoning of Ashbery, some Langpo, ssome Bruce > Andres, > ed sanders, Coolidge, more Langp (not the Chinese poet!), definitely no > gooey Snyder, some Steinlike stuff mixed in and so on: lets get prolix > and > profound: dark and opaque...to hell with awards and low brow crap such > as > written by the likes of Levine or di Prima! Ad for got sake kill of that > Ferlinghetti Crap Generator non-event from City Lights....Or Jorie > Graham....let's get vicious for a while. Regards, Richard. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:40 AM > Subject: DiPrima, Troupe, Alarcon finalists for Cal. Poet Laureate > > > > > http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-000022575mar29.story?coll=la-hea > > dlines-politics > > > > THE STATE > > > > For California Poet Laureate, Names Both Large and Small > > Culture: The field shrinks to three, each a strong contender. The > final > > choice should emerge in July. > > By ROBIN FIELDS > > TIMES STAFF WRITER > > > > March 29 2002 > > > > The writing staff of TV's "Will & Grace" didn't make the cut. > > > > Fifty-one more California wordsmiths ended up on the scrapheap too, > > despite resumes gilded with prestigious awards, fellowships and > > publications. > > > > In the end, a Beat Generation standout, a bilingual chronicler of > > Chicano life and a multimedia Renaissance man emerged Wednesday as the > > finalists to become California's first formally chosen poet laureate. > > Now it falls to Gov. Gray Davis to nominate Diane di Prima, Francisco > > Alarcon or Quincy Troupe to a post that has existed since 1915 but was > > largely political until last year, when the Legislature approved a > > detailed set of qualifications and duties for it. > > > > The multitiered process to pick a poet laureate initially produced a > > rather muted response from California's literary community. > > > > Several of the state's best-known poets declined to be nominated, > > including Pulitzer Prize winners Gary Snyder and Philip Levine, former > > U.S. Poet Laureate Robert Hass and Bay Area legend Lawrence > > Ferlinghetti. A few days before the Feb. 19 deadline, the council had > > received just 10 submissions. > > > > But a last-minute blast of publicity brought a cascade of 45 more > > applications, some from unexpected quarters. The 11-member "Will & > > Grace" writing staff, for example, submitted itself for the job. > > > > "We are the poets of the Southern California landscape," said Jeff > > Greenstein, one of the show's executive producers. > > > > Their entry didn't survive the first judging round, which culled the > > applicant pile from 55 to 21. > > > > "Maybe if the writers of 'Six Feet Under' had been nominated," quipped > > panelist Jack Hicks, a professor at UC Davis. > > > > "Well that's just mean," Greenstein shot back. "No one ever takes > comedy > > seriously." > > > > A five-member panel convened Wednesday in Sacramento to pick three > > finalists, looking for poets with national stature and the ability to > > act as ambassadors for their craft. > > > > In Troupe, Alarcon and Di Prima, they chose starkly different > stylists, > > all with proven ability to communicate across regional, generational > and > > ethnic lines. > > > > Troupe, 59, may be as well-known for his radio show, "The Miles Davis > > Project," and for the autobiography he penned with Davis, as for his > > poetry. His electric performance style helped the La Jolla resident, > who > > also teaches at UC San Diego, win the heavyweight title twice at the > > annual Taos Poetry Circus. > > > > Alarcon, 48, who oversees the Spanish for Native Speakers program at > UC > > Davis, is one of the nation's most prominent Chicano poets. He has > > written 10 volumes of poetry, including "Snake Poems," which won the > > 1993 American Book Award, and an acclaimed children's book. > > > > Di Prima, 67, born in Brooklyn but a longtime San Francisco fixture, > > captured the Beatnik era, both in poems and autobiographical writing, > > and by editing several poetry anthologies. She co-founded "The > Floating > > Bear," a periodical that featured works by William S. Burroughs and > Jack > > Kerouac, and has written numerous plays. > > > > "It is a great honor to be considered," Di Prima said. "California is > my > > country, in a way. How we see the world is unique." > > > > The governor is expected to pick from among the finalists by July, > > sending one name for confirmation by the state Senate. The winner will > > serve no more than two two-year terms, during which he or she must > give > > public readings and take on a project. > > > > Di Prima said she would use the position to reach out to working > people, > > urging them to write based on their experiences. Greenstein said the > > "Will & Grace" staff would have brought an episode of the New > York-based > > show to California. > > > > "Maybe that's California's loss," he said. > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:01:51 EST Reply-To: adlevy@slought.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Levy Organization: Slought Networks Subject: [slought] Vancouver 1963: Poetry Recordings Online Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 Slought Networks presents a digitized version of Fred Wah^Òs recordings of the 1963 Vancouver Poetry Conference, as well as select readings and lectures (1961-67) from Wah's collection. >> http://slought.net/toc/Vancouver1963/ ----------------- Online recordings available by the following poets: Margaret Avison, Basil Bunting, Robert Creeley, Fielding Dawson, Ed Dorn, Robert Duncan, Gerry Gilbert, Allen Ginsberg, Denise Levertov, Charles Olson, George Oppen, Gael Turnbull, John Wieners, Philip Whalen >> http://slought.net/toc/Vancouver1963/ ----------------- "The July-August 1963 Poetry Conference in Vancouver spanned three weeks and involved about sixty people who had registered for a program of discussions, workshops, lectures, and readings designed by Warren Tallman and Robert Creeley as a summer course at the University of B.C. Warren asked me to tape the morning discussions and the evening lectures and readings. The workshops were not recorded, except by individual journals (see _Olson; The Journal of the Charles Olson Archives_, Number 4, Fall 1975). I recorded 4-track, 3 3/4 ips, on a Wollensak, using one microphone. I made copies of the tapes twice, once for SUNY-Buffalo and once for Simon Fraser University. Some of the tapes have been transcribed (see Olson, as above). With the help of Aaron Levy, I am archiving some parts of my tape collection. Though the primary reason for this is to preserve rather old reel-to-reel taped events, I would also like to make this material available to educators, researchers, and poets." -- Fred Wah ----------------- A Poetry Archive by Aaron Levy. With Louis Cabri. Digitized in Calgary, Canada from March 7-16, 2002. A Slought Networks initiative, with Fred Wah. ___________________ http://slought.net/ http://slought.net/toc/subscribe/elists/ | Aaron Levy Slought Networks Curator http://slought.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:51:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Kevin Killian hits Ananova Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Check out this link: http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_554844.html Ananova is the #1 on-line news service in the UK. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:37:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carmen Gimenezrosello Subject: Call for Submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CALL FOR POETRY SUBMISSIONS parlorgames is a San Francisco-based publication dedicated to what is = new and true in contemporary poetry. All styles are welcome, with = preference given to poems that pull rabbits from their hats, enter a = doorway as if it were an opening for rhapsody, and, in the end, take the = tops off of our heads. We will be reading submissions March 21-April 30. Unsolicited manuscripts will not be returned unless accompanied by a = SASE. Please limit submissions to three poems. Simultaneous submissions are = accepted if noted. Manuscripts accepted for publication become the property of parlorgames = unless otherwise indicated. All rights reserved. All rights revert to = the author upon publication. Please send submissions to: parlorgames@aol.com (no queries, please) or by mail: Attn: parlormaster 748 Page Street, #6 San Francisco, CA 94117 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:14:59 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Lazer workshop and Readings at WW Comments: To: whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu, wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The WALT WHITMAN ART CENTER April 2002 Notable Poets and Writers Series Features readings by Hank Lazer and Ron Silliman Friday, April 5, 7:30 Ishmael Reed Friday, April 12, 7:30 $6 general/ $4 students, seniors, free to members & Workshops: LAST CALL FOR LAZER WORKSHOP! (poems may be emailed to wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org) Hank Lazer: POETRY Saturday, April 5, 12 am-2 pm Send three pages of work by March 29; class size 10 Ishmael Reed: FICTION Saturday, April 13, 10 am-12 pm Send five pages of work by April 5; class size 6 Registration is on a first-come, first-served basis. $30 general/$20 members. Send check, money order to Walt Whitman Art Center, 2nd and Cooper St. Camden, NJ The versatile and talented HANK LAZER, poet, critic, and editor has been on the forefront of experimental poetry for the last three decades. His books include Doublespace: Poems 1971-1989, INTER(IR)RUPTIONS, Mouth to Mouth, Negation, Three of Ten, Early Days of the Lang Dynasty, and now his eagerly-awaited collection, Days. In addition, Lazer is the author of essays on modern and contemporary poetry, including Opposing Poetries, as well as other influential books of criticism, and co-editor with Charles Bernstein of the Modern and Contemporary Poetics series, published by University of Alabama Press where he is Professor of English and Assistant Vice President for Undergraduate Programs and Services. The significant and innovative poet RON SILLIMAN has at different times in his life worked as a prison and tenant organizer, lobbyist, teacher, collegeadministrator, editor of Socialist Review, and a marketeer in the computer industry. Long considered a national leader of the Language-centered writing movement, Ron Silliman's poetry and criticism have influenced an entiregeneration of poets. His concept of the New Sentence spawned literally dozens of efforts based on his idea of prose writing. He is the author of over 20 books of poetry, criticism, and has edited several literary collections. He has received several awards including a Pew fellowship for his work. Novelist, journalist, poet, and satirist ISHMAEL REED is the author of more than 20 books, including novels, essays, plays, and poetry, and has been the recipient of a MacArthur Genius and Lila Wallace Foundation Award. He has been a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize and was twice nominated for the National Book Award. Reed has taught at Harvard, Yale, and Dartmouth and has long been on the faculty at UC-Berkeley. Reed's 1972 novel Mumbo Jumbo presented a counter-mythology, dubbed "HooDooism," that challenged the myth that Western culture must be glorified at the expense of all other cultures. He is founder of the Before Columbus Foundation, a nonprofit organization established to promote American multicultural literature. Reed is well known for using satire and parody to emphasize and advocate the importance of all cultures, rather than the dominance of one. Please come and join us for these exceptional events. Alicia Askenase Literary Director Walt Whitman Art Center Johnson Park 2nd and Cooper Sts. Camden, NJ 08102 856-964-8300 fax 856-964-2953 www.waltwhitmancenter.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:34:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <20020329053638.18004.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but David Foster Wallace (I think) wrote an "Indexical" book review of a collection of prose poems that was published in _Rain Taxi Review of Books_ (issue #21) within the last year. http://www.raintaxi.com/index.htm As I recall, the form of the review was a deliberate comment on the content of the review and the book being reviewed. Aside from that if you're just looking for list poems, there's _The Vermont Notebooks_ (I believe that's what they're called?) poems and drawings by John Ashbery and Joe Brainard. The poems are all (?(I haven't read it all yet)) lists. It was recently (?) republished by Granary Books. Ken At 09:36 PM 3/28/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, > >Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? >Has listing as a technique been examined critically >anywhere? Thanks. > >Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding >publishing on demand. > >Pete > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover >http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 03:18:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Essay for Graduate Record Exams (GRE) from a dream MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Essay for Graduate Record Exams (GRE) from a dream: On a Shelf, The Futility of Being Here, on a shelf in my unaccustomed house, bottles and dishes are linked together by association. Perhaps a plate is nestled upon another; perhaps a bottle sits next to a bottle. All of these objects occupy my field of view together, as if they are simultaneous, connected by other than their random placement. Ah, if they were only linked, the fate of one connected to the fate of all! But such is not to be. Thus we divide the world into those objects and associations deeply committed to one another, embedded within each other, dependent upon one another - and those objects whose being in relation to one another is nothing more than futile. Shamefully they insist on connection that is not there; they exhaust themselves in the effort, and to no avail. _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:56:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick" Subject: Re: For Immediate Release 2.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Announcing a Special Issue of > "FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE" > An on-line journal of poetry > Guest edited by Patrick Pritchett > > www.poetz.com/fir/apr02.htm > > Vol. 2, No. 4 > April 2002 > > In this issue: > > The School of Continuation: > Anselm Hollo - from "Guests of Space" > Mark DuCharme - Three Poems > Laura Wright - Four Poems > Patrick Pritchett - "Sonata Camera Obscura" > > New Work from Potato Clock Editions: > David Ball - from "In Cities" > Paul Naylor - from "Arranging Nature" & "Measured Repsonse" > And Work By: > Mara Leigh - "Covered Head Crestfallen" > Peter O'Leary - Three Poems > Linda Russo - "Spells & Charms" > Andrew Schelling - Two Poems > Aldon Nielsen - "Sixties Flashbacks" > Jack Greene - from "Dear Stevens" > Avery Burns - Six Poems > Bhanu Kapil Rider - from "The Wolf Girls of Midnapure" > Jeff Chester - -Two Poems > Amy Catanzano - Two Poems > Todd McCarty - "Star Motor" > Jeffrey Robinson - "Floridize" > Michael Friedman - "First" & "Columbus Circle" > Rusty Morrison - Three Poems > Jeremy Green - Five Poems > Elizabeth Robinson - "Tollund Man" > > This issue of For Immediate Release features a special section devoted to > the work of the School of Continuation, whose members include the painter > Jane Dalrymple-Hollo, ands poets Mark DuCharme, Anselm Hollo, Patrick > Pritchett, and Laura Wright. The School has just released its first > chapbook, "ANON: Writings & Manifestoes," some of which appears here. > Through its publishing wing, Potato Clock Editions, it has also produced > Paul Naylor's "Arranging Nature," a jaggedly lyrical recasting of "On The > Nature of Things" and the Lucretian sublime, and David Ball's playful, > saturnine urban meditations, "In Cities." (For availability of these > titles, please contact the editor at: patrickpritchett@msn.com). > > The remainder of this issue presents an exciting range of diverse poets > who explore a variety of compelling challenges: the valences of memory, > history, and diaspora (both troubled and satirical); the difficult > registers of a postmodern spiritual poetics; the critique of cultural > malaise in an empire of ethical vacancy; and the interrogation of the idea > of and possibilities for lyric. > > All of the work gathered together here in some way or other complicates > the terms the poem seeks for itself. In an era of increasing cognitive > dissonance and political malutterance, the poem becomes ever more charged > with the responsibility to speak different. To take up a radical posture > toward language is one way to contest the possibilities for saying at all > in a culture benumbed with moral and linguistic fatigue. Through such > work, the embattled status of the human subject may assert itself as more > truly present, more resistant to assimilation, more than the scattered > fallout from a hysterical apocalyptic discourse. By recognizing that the > poem is always at the horizon of speech, the limits of self-invention and > determination can begin to be seen as coterminous with the limits of > tropological resourcefulness. > > Patrick Pritchett > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:45:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Diaspora Poetics Events at New Langton Arts! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please join us for these two wonderful events! Thursday, April 11, 8 pm Diaspora Poetics DISCO M FIGURE TAN LIN Screening/Reading Music by dj somuchsoul (Wild Seed) Langton kicks off its new literary series "Diaspora Poetics" with the West Coast premiere of poet and critic Tan Lin=B9s poetry movie "Disco M Figure (DMF)." "Diaspora Poetics" showcases innovative writers from varied backgrounds whose work examines conditions of cultural dispersion across th= e boundaries of ethnicity, gender, and sexual orientation. With "Disco M Figure," Lin pulls contemporary poetry from its exile in the realm of the stiflingly academic, instead grounding it in an ambient pleasure world with 16.7 million shades of color backgrounds. Simultaneously visual and narrative, "DMF" is a work of literature that isn=B9t read but gazed at; it=B9s a poem and artwork that, as Lin so well puts it, "get the reader/viewer int= o a groove." Lin published "Lotion Bullwhip Giraffe" (Sun and Moon) in 1996, and his poems have appeared in the "Boston Review," "Conjunctions," and "Ne= w American Writing," among others. He lives and works in New York. Tuesday, April 16, 8 pm Diaspora Poetics SUMMI KAIPA and K. SILEM MOHAMMAD Reading "Diaspora Poetics" continues to explore diaspora in its aesthetic, political, and personal dimensions with readings of new works by Summi Kaip= a and K. Silem Mohammad. Kaipa reads from her work-in-progress "Was. Or. Am," and Mohammad reads recent work including selections from his new chapbook "Ant." Kaipa=B9s work has appeared in "Tinfish," "Kenning," "Tool A Magazine,= " "Rain Taxi," and "Rhizome." She=B9s a member of San Francisco's Alliance for Emerging Creative Artists (AECA) and the editor of "Interlope." Mohammad=B9s poetry has appeared in "Combo," "Fourteen Hills," and "Kenning," among others. His serial poem "hovercraft" was the Kenning summer chapbook for 2000. He teaches literature at UC Santa Cruz. Tickets $6/$4 members, students, and seniors Diaspora Poetics curated by Camille Roy & Tisa Bryant ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:13:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <20020329053638.18004.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" great question, no answers from here, but would like to know. index esp; listing has probably been done a lot, as anaphora is a well-examined rhetorical trope. so please respond thru poetix! thanks all! At 9:36 PM -0800 3/28/02, Pete Balestrieri wrote: >Hi, > >Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? >Has listing as a technique been examined critically >anywhere? Thanks. > >Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding >publishing on demand. > >Pete > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover >http://greetings.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:24:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: warmth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - warmth Jennifer wonders about her new boy. Jennifer says, when we cuddle together we are very very warm. Jennifer's boy wonders about this. Jennifer says, look at it this way. We are warmer for two reasons. Where our bodies touch, we are not cold and we pass warmth among us so that the warmth is there and nice with us, and our bodies come together in warmth and coolness and then warmness all over. And our skin which is not touching, that skin is less than the separate skins of our separate selves. And so, her boy says, if we adopt a third, there will be even less surface and more inside and lovely warmth. yes yes says Jennifer, and we can add a fourth and fifth, and her boy says as we add more and more, the surface is smaller and smaller compared to all the lovely warmth inside. Oh yes says her boy, if we had hundreds and hundreds, why then so many will be so lovely warmth inside all over, and on the surface, even then only half will be cold and the other half warmed by the great engine within. Yes, says Jennifer, and we will be a part of that great engine and all warmed with that lovely warmth and all toasty. We are warmed by our thinking says Jennifer's boy. Yes yes yes says Jennifer, we are very warmed by our hundreds of thinking thoughts and bodies surrounding us in such lovely warmth. _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:20:24 -0500 Reply-To: Nate and Jane Dorward Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate and Jane Dorward Subject: Re: Index as a form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two instances that come to mind as notable (and pointedly idiosyncratic) indexes are those to Pope's _Dunciad_ & Zukofsky's _"A"_. (Warning: to my recollection the compressed one-volume paperback Butts edition of Pope deletes the index.) -- all best --N Nate & Jane Dorward ndorward@sprint.ca THE GIG magazine: http://pages.sprint.ca/ndorward/files/ 109 Hounslow Ave., Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ph: (416) 221 6865 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:03:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020329114917.00a5eb30@email.psu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit How about Whitman's famous listing as an example of "index"? or Harryette Mullen's new _Sleeping With the Dictionary_ which is arranged alphabetically? (Less interestingly, the final piece in my first book _Re dress_ has an "index." Lemme know if you'd like me to xerox a copy for you.) Best, Kathy Lou Schultz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kathy Lou Schultz http://www.english.upenn.edu/~klou Lipstick Eleven, The Esperanto Issue, Now Available Order from Small Press Distribution at: http://www.spdbooks.org > From: Aldon Nielsen > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:50:56 -0500 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Index as a Form? > > By the time this reaches the list, I expect several will have chimed in > with Zukofsky's marvelous index to "A", with its entries for "wrist," > "thought," "tohuy bohu" etc. > > Not to be overlooked is the index to David Bromige's RED HATS -- > > > At 09:36 PM 3/28/2002 -0800, you wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? >> Has listing as a technique been examined critically >> anywhere? Thanks. >> >> Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding >> publishing on demand. >> >> Pete >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover >> http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "You made a mistake. You did something wrong. > Now make another mistake, and do something right." > --Sun Ra > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:44:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: MSA 4 Brochure: Plenarists, Seminars, etc. Comments: To: h-afro-am@h-net.msu.edu, hdsoc-l@uconnvm.uconn.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu, modbrits@listserv.indiana.edu, h-amstdy@h-net.msu.edu, modernism@lists.village.virginia.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Colleague, We hope you will attend the fourth annual conference of the MODERNIST STUDI= ES ASSOCIATION, October 31-November 3, 2002 at the University of Wisconsin-Mad= ison in Madison, WI.=20 This announcement describes the conference--listing plenary speakers, peer = seminars and featured panels--and the procedures for seminar registration= and proposing a panel. It also includes important information on deadlines, reg= istration, and MSA dues and membership.=20 Please visit the MSA website at http://msa.press.jhu.edu for updated inform= ation, to join the MSA listserve, and to obtain the MSA4 registration for= m. MSA BOARD Gail McDonald, President, g_mcdona@uncg.edu Kevin J. H. Dettmar, Vice-President, kdettmar@siu.edu Michael Coyle, Past President, Mcoyle@mail.colgate.edu Phoebe Stein Davis, Chair, Communication and Publications, psd@prairie.org Sean Latham, Web Editor, sean-latham@utulsa.edu Cassandra Laity, Co-Editor of Modernism/Modernity, claity@drew.edu Douglas Mao, Chair, Programs, dmao@fas.harvard.edu Jordana Mendelson, Chair, International Relations, jmendels@uiuc.edu Bonnie Kime Scott, Chair, Membership Development; Treasurer, bkscott@mail.s= dsu.edu Mark Wollaeger, Chair, Interdisciplinary Approaches, mark.wollaeger@vanderbilt.edu COMMITTEES Programs David Chinitz, Seminar Coordinator, msa seminars@luc.edu Douglas Mao, Chair, dmao@fas.harvard.edu=20 Jesse Matz, Panel Coordinator, matzj@kenyon.edu Communication and Publications=20 Phoebe Stein Davis, Chair, psd@prairie.org Susan Rosenbaum, sbrosenbaum@yahoo.com Steve Spence, SteveSpence@mail.clayton.edu=20 Interdisciplinary Approaches Mark Wollaeger, Chair, mark.wollaeger@vanderbilt.edu Jessica Burstein, jb2@u.washington.ed Jessica Berman, jberman@umbc.edu Ian Baucom, ibaucom@duke.edu International Relations=20 Eric Keenaghan: keenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu=20 Jordana Mendelson, Chair, jmendels@uiuc.edu Deborah Parsons: PARSONDC@hhs.bham.ac.uk MADISON ORGANIZERS Susan Stanford Friedman, MSA 4 Conference Coordinator, ssfriedm@facstaff.wisc.edu Elizabeth Evans, MSA 4 Conference Administrator, efevans@facstaff.wisc.edu ABOUT THE CONFERENCE MSA 4: Modernist Studies Association 4th Annual Conference University of Wisconsin, Madison=20 October 31 - November 3, 2002 Founded in 1999, the MSA is devoted to the study of the arts in their socia= l, political, cultural, and intellectual contexts from the late nineteent= h century through the mid-twentieth. Through its annual conferences and its journal, Modernism/ Modernity, the organization seeks to develop an interdisciplinar= y forum for exchange among scholars in this revitalized and rapidly expanding= field. For more information, please see our website at http://msa.press.jhu.edu/ The 2002 Conference will be held at the Monona Terrace Convention Center, a= building designed by Frank Lloyd Wright on the shores of Lake Monona in = downtown Madison, Wisconsin. To learn more about Monona Terrace, visit th= eir website at: www.mononaterrace.com Sponsored by the University of Wisconsin-Madison, the conference will featu= re plenaries, panels, peer seminars, poetry readings, and film screenings= related to the study of modernism and modernity. MSA 4 will include a special focus= on cinema and modernism, with a roundtable, several film screenings, and= panels addressing cinematic modernism and modernity. MSA 4 will also have art exhi= bited by Helen Klebesadel and Freida Tesfagiorgis.=20 PLENARY SPEAKERS Rita Felski, University of Virginia Simon Gikandi, University of Michigan W.J.T. Mitchell, University of Chicago PANELS Featured panels include: Hitchcock: "Murder!" and Modernism with D. A. Miller, Lee Edelman, and Rich= ard Allen=20 Making It Now: Visualizing Experience in Modernism, Cinema and Modernity wi= th Garry Leonard, Vicki Callahan, Susan McCabe, and Jennifer Hammett Crossing Genres in the Russian Avant-Garde with Adrian Wanner, Karen Evans-= Romaine, Lynn Mally, and Karen Petrone Modernism, Dissidence, and State Power with Michael Moses, C. D. Blanton, a= nd Jennifer Wicke Cold War Modernism with Michael Szalay, Sean McCann, and Debbie Nelson New World Modernisms with Tace Hedrick, Jeff Karem, and Vera Kutzinski=20 Call for Panel Proposals: The deadline for proposing panels is May 1, 2002.=20 Proposals for panels must include the following information. Please assist = us by sending this information in exactly the order given here. Use as a = subject line: MSA 4 Panel Proposal / [Last Name of Panel Organizer]. - Pa= nel Title - Panel Organizer's name, institutional affiliation, disciplin= e or department, mailing address, phone, fax,and e-mail --Chair's name= , institutional affiliation, discipline or department, and contact inform= ation (Ifyou cannot identify a chair, we will locate one for you.) - Panelists names, paper titles, institutional affiliations, disciplines o= r departments, and contact information - A 250-word abstract of the panel as a whole MSA policy on panels: - No participant may present more than one paper at one conference, and no participant may both present a paper and lead one of the conference's semin= ars.=20 - We do not accept proposals for individual papers. - We encourage interdisciplinary panels and discourage panels on single authors. - We encourage panels with three participants (up to 20 minutes per panelis= t). Panels of four (up to 15 minutes per person) and roundtables of five or six= will be considered. - Panels composed entirely of graduate students or of participants from a s= ingle institution are not likely to be accepted. - All MSA panels must have a chair who is not giving a paper. (The panel or= ganizer may give a paper.) Please attempt to locate a chair, but if you d= o not have one, we will locate one for you. Send panel proposals by May 1, 2002 to: Elizabeth Evans, efevans@facstaff.wisc.edu.=20 Email submission is strongly preferred. No attachments please.=20 For more information, visit our website: http://msa.press.jhu.edu/ Questions not addressed on the website may be directed to: -Jesse Matz, matzj@kenyon.edu -Douglas Mao, dmao@fas.harvard.edu Panels will be selected in early June.=20 PEER SEMINARS Participation of conferees in peer seminars is one of the most significant = features of the MSA conference. Seminars are small-group discussion sessi= ons (of no more than 15 people) for which participants write brief position pa= pers that are read and circulated prior to the conference. Seminars gene= rate lively and valuable exchange during the conference and in some cases have c= reated a network of scholars who have continued to work together. Further= , the peer seminar model allows most conferees to seek financial support = from their institutions as they educate themselves and their colleagues o= n subjects of mutual interest.=20 Please visit our website at http://msa.press.jhu.edu/ for full descriptions= of these seminars.=20 H. Porter Abbott, University of California at Santa Barbara Modernist Fiction as Auto(bio)graphy Despite modernist dicta of an impersonal art, modernist fiction bears many = of the signs of autobiography. The seminar will focus on this complex iss= ue of artistic intention and literary response. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Charles Altieri, University of California at Berkeley Interpreting Modernist Poetics for the New Century How poets born after 1960 engage and recast the values articulated in moder= nist poetry, in modernist theorists like Benjamin and Adorno, or in other= modernist arts and their heritage. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Ann Ardis, University of Delaware, and Holly A. Laird, University of Tulsa Class Matters This seminar will explore class issues at the turn of the twentieth century= (1870-1922), especially in relation to the "rise" of modernism; education= al reform initiatives; and the development of English studies. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura Cowan and Tony Brinkley, University of Maine Fascism and Modernism How did modernism engage fascism? Is fascism a phenomenon of the left as we= ll as the right? What are the connections between revolutionary and fasci= st practice? Is it possible to imagine a humane fascist poetics? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kevin J. H. Dettmar, Southern Illinois University at Carbondale Modernism For Sale We will engage with topics and questions posed by recent criticism focusing= on the relationship of modernist artistic production to larger market fo= rces in the United States and Great Britain. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Laura Doyle, University of Massachusetts Modernist Literature and Post-Impressionist Art Invites interpretations of these two movements in light of (post)colonialit= y, visuality/ textuality, commodity culture, sexuality, etc. May emphasiz= e art or literature but should link the two. Possible sub-fields: cubism, fauvism, i= magism, artist/writer locations, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Marian Eide, Texas A&M University Modernism and Ethics Addressing the recent "turn to ethics" and its critical implications within= academic discourse, this seminar will explore recent ethical theory and = the ethical concerns reflected in modernist arts. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Maria Farland, Fordham University Modernist Versions of Pastoral Pastoral reemerged in modernist-era debates surrounding Marxism, Communism,= and the Great Depression. The seminar welcomes discussions of pastoral t= echniques and devices in modernist literature, film, and visual art. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Anne E. Fernald, DePauw University Modernism's Past The injunction "make it new" coexists with the modernist's obsession with t= he past. This seminar investigates how modernists constructed, transforme= d, and rejected tradition. Theoretical approaches encouraged. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Matthew R. Hofer, University of Chicago, and Alec Marsh, Muhlenberg College International Poetics and Expatriate Modernism This seminar will analyze and evaluate how modern American poets represente= d their homeland, its citizens, and themselves from the metropolitan cent= ers of Europe during and between the two world wars. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * James E. Housefield, Southwest Texas State University Modern Practices of Competition/Dialogue/Collaboration This seminar seeks papers about Modernist practices that engage competition= , dialogue, and/or collaboration. Innovative conceptions of these terms a= re encouraged, as are papers that consider interdisciplinary or visual mo= dernisms. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Eric Keenaghan, Temple University, and Deborah Parsons, University of Birminghamm0D The Limits of Global Modernist Studies International texts and contexts can pluralize modernism, but "discovering"= modernist affinities outside Euro-American contexts risks intellectual imperialism. How can global modernist studies account for difference withou= t reproducing modernity's cultural asymmetries? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Katherine E. Kelly, Texas A&M University Drama/Theatre/Performance at the Scene of Modernism(s) We will explore how Modern Drama c. 1880-1930 was constituted by artistic c= ircles, e.g., suffragists, Fabians, Dadaists, Symbolists, etc., for whom = theatre had (r)evolutionary potential. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Phyllis Lassner, Northwestern University Modernist Women, Anti-Semitism, and the Holocaust This seminar will explore the silences and representations of modernist wom= en writers and artists in response to anti-Semitism and the Holocaust. We= willl=F50Ainterpret imaginative and non-fictional representations produc= ed before, during, and after the Holocaust. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Pericles Lewis, Yale University Modernism and the Psychology of Religious Experience Links between modernism and psychology and sociology of religion (James, Du= rkheim, Weber, Freud, others). Possible themes: myth, the occult, status = of the artist, feminist versions of mystical experience, religious orient= alism. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Marc Manganaro, Rutgers University Modernism and Anthropology This seminar invites papers that explore the relations between anthropology= and modernism. Especially encouraged are inquiries into how anthropologi= cal discourse can contribute to our understanding of what modernism can mean. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Alice Goldfarb Marquis, University of California at San Diego Modernism's American Audience Who were the diverse American patrons attracted to modernism's promise of f= reedom? Why? Welcome is any approach to understanding this audience: comp= arative, historical, stylistic, psychological, sociological, economic, ph= ilosophical, biographical. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Timothy J. Materer, University of Missouri, and Stephen Yenser, UCLA The Modernist Poem in Mid-Century America Responding to a civilization of still greater "variety and complexity" than= T.S. Eliot observed in 1921, how do mid-century American poets "force [a= nd] dislocate if necessary, language into . . . meaning"? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Mark McGurl, UCLA Modernist Education: Theories and Institutions This seminar will explore the relation between the modernist movement and c= ontemporaneous developments in the systemss2Cinstitutions, practicess=FBa= nd theories of education in Europe and the United States. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Jennifer Poulos Nesbitt, Wilkes University Modernist Things=20 What can things tell us about modernist culture? How can theorizing and "th= ings" help us understand the ideological/aesthetic/cultural crises that i= nform this period? All disciplines, approaches welcome. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Michael Nowlin, University of Victoria Modernism, Modernity, and the Harlem Renaissance The Harlem Renaissance in recent topographies of American modernism: emphas= is on black interest in "literature" vs. white interest in black "enterta= inment"; "insider" critiques of the Renaissance; the "provincial" in mode= rnist studies.=20 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bob Perelman, University of Pennsylvania, and Alan Golding, University of Louisville Poetry, Poeticss2C Pedagogy Did modernist poetries themselves enact a pedagogy? A counter-pedagogy? How= did they situate themselves vis-a-vis pedagogical institutions? What pro= blems do modernist poetries continue to pose, in the classroom, in the culture at la= rge? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Marjorie Pryse, State University of New York at Albany Regionalism and the Modern Possible topics include: encroachments of modernity on the region; anticipa= tory regionalism in modern texts; "hybrid" texts that combine regionalism= and the modern; responses to Latour's "we have never been modern." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Patricia Rae, Queen s University Modernism and Mourning We will explore the "work of mourning" in modernist literature. What is its= relationship to the public discourse mourning death in war? What are the= politics of the modernist elegy s "refusal to mourn?"2=F50A* * * * * * *= * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Robert Scholes, Brown University Low Modernism Low modernism--the opposite of high. This is the place to discuss theories,= works, and writers of what Cyril Connolly called "iridescent mediocrity"= entertainments, thrillers, frivolities, mysteries, espionage, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Morag Shiach, University of London The Periodization of Modernism What are the theoretical, critical and pedagogical implications of the ways= we periodize modernism? Examining different disciplines and their period= izations, we will explore the larger theoretical and political issues rai= sed. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Joyce Wexler, Loyola University Chicago Modernism and the Extreme Now that the scandalous violence and sexuality of modernism have become com= mon and the formal innovations that made modernism "difficult" have becom= e familiar, how do we understand its initial extremity? =20 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Richard J. Williams, University of Edinburgh Experiencing the Modernist City The modernist city is usually represented as an experience of pure alienati= on. But what experience do its architects suppose we should have of it ? = And what alternative experiences are possible? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Mark Wollaeger, Vanderbilt University Literary Modernism and New Media This seminar invites participants interested in exploring relations between= modernism(s) and new media. Within a rapidly changing media ecology, how= does literary modernism resist, appropriate, or transform new forms of c= ommunication? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Steven G. Yao, Ohio State University World Modernisms Addresses modernist cultural production outside Europe and the U.S., examin= ing differing meanings of "modernist" strategies in various geo-political= contexts. Possibilities include Japanese modanizumu, Chinese xian dai zh= u yi, Latin American modernismo among others. PEER SEMINAR REGISTRATION Individuals may submit a ranked list of three seminars (including the name = of the seminar leader) in which they would like to participate. Since we = can accept only a limited number of panel proposals, we encourage all prospecti= ve participants to consider joining one of the 30 peer seminars listed. S= eminar assignments will be made on a first-come, first-served basis; the sooner yo= u submit your selections, the better your chance of receiving your first = choice. We will begin notifying seminar registrants of their assignments on May 30. Subsequent seminar registrations will be on an availability-only basis. The= MSA 4 Program will indicate seminars available for auditors. Please emai= l ranked seminar selections and panel proposals to Elizabeth Evans at efe= vans@facstaff.wisc.edu (please paste into email; no attachments) and incl= ude summer contact information. REGISTER FOR MSA 4 To register for the conference, visit the MSA website (http://msa.press.jhu.edu) for information and to download a registration form. The website also incl= udes information on hotel accommodations. =20 MEMBERSHIP NEWS AND NOTICE OF DUES Membership in the MSA is $55.00 for regular members and $35.00 for graduate= students and adjunct faculty. MSA members will receive the following ben= efits: - admission to the annual MSA conference with payment of conference registr= ation fees. - four issues of Modernism/Modernity and free electronic access to the jour= nal through Project Muse. - access to a website hosted by Johns Hopkins University Press. The new MSA website will provide conference updates, a membership directory, a newslett= er, notice of MSA nominations and elections, publication announcements, a= nd sample syllabi. You must be a member to attend the conference in 2001. Of the $55, $25 in d= ues are tax-deductible; $30.00 attributable to the Modernism/Modernity su= bscription may be taken as a professional deduction.=20 PLEASE MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOU WISH TO JOIN THE MSA AND NOT SIMPLY BECOME A = SUBSCRIBER TO MODERNISM/MODERNITY) Send check or money order payable to The Johns Hopkins University Press, $5= 5.00 if you are a regular member or $35.00 if you are a graduate student or adju= nct faculty, and include rank, affiliation (if any), e-mail, fax and mail= ing address to: The Johns Hopkins University Press=20 P.O. Box 19966=20 Baltimore, MD 21211-0966 U.S.A.=20 Call toll-free 1-800-548-1784 or Fax (410)-516-6968 or e-mail: a0D d=BDo unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@jhupress.jhu.edu with the fo= llowing line in the body: unsubscribe msa_members you@your.email.address.= Or visit this web site: http://www.press.jhu.edu/associations/msa_member= s/listserv.html To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@jhupress.jhu.edu with the follo= wing line in the body: unsubscribe msa_members you@your.email.address. Or= visit this web site: http://www.press.jhu.edu/associations/msa_members/l= istserv.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:07:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: OGCW at CMU Subject: please post! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The members of Central Michigan University^Òs Organization of Graduate Creative Writers (OGCW) are working on the second annual issue of Temenos, a review of contemporary fiction and poetry. We are presently compiling work of the highest literary value for this year^Òs issue. Meaning ^Ósacred space,^Ô Temenos embraces a wide variety of fiction and poetry, including work from both previously published and unpublished authors. In the forthcoming issue, OGCW hopes to include works of creative non-fiction as well. The first issue of Temenos featured work by poets Laura Mullen, Jim Behrle, Christopher Davis, Donna de la Perriere and Joseph Lease. We hope that you will contribute to this year^Òs Temenos by submitting some of your poetry. In order to feature your work, we must receive it by April 12^×we apologize for such short notice. You may choose to submit via e-mail (Microsoft Word attachment) or regular mail at: The Organization of Graduate Creative Writers Department of English Central Michigan University Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858 Thank you, and we look forward to your response. Jason Hughes and Jessie Stickler Editor and Assistant Editor, Temenos _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:52:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Martin Stannard Martin Stannard is our favorite (living) Brit poet, with new book, Difficulties and Exultations, out from Smith/Doorstop (ISBN 1-902382-29-3). He can be reached at stannardpoet@aol.com. MY FAVOURITE POP GROUPS NOT IN ANY SPECIAL ORDER 1 Two Girls And An Umbrella ^Ö Some Much Younger ^Ö The Wild Eyebrows ^Ö The People From Over The Road ^Ö Caution Horses ^Ö The Fondly Recalled ^Ö The Family Of Brothers ^Ö Rachmaninov^Òs Nightshirt ^Ö The Whites of Their Eyes ^Ö The Potato Graders ^Ö The As If We Cared ^Ö The Silence Is Finally At An End ^Ö Translated From The English ^Ö The Pity Me^Òs ^Ö The 4th World War ^Ö A Race Apart From That ^Ö The Water Carers ^Ö Five Different People Each With A Part To Play ^Ö The Slowly Descending Stares ^Ö Decline and Decline Some More ^Ö The In Love Again ^Ö The Emily Dickinsons ^Ö Backwards Over Falling ^Ö The Chances Of Things Getting Better Are Not Very Goods ^Ö The What? ^Ö The Expectations Of Men Are Always Confounded ^Ö The Life Of Sigmund Freud ^Ö The Wittering On ^Ö Slow Trains ^Ö My Fucking Valentine ^Ö The Surprise Phone Call ^Ö Our Friend Jennings ^Ö The Half-Full Metal Jackets ^Ö The There^Òs Something Here But I Don^Òt Know Whats ^Ö The Concord Buttons ^Ö Pearl and Orbis ^Ö The Religion Of Family ^Ö Happiness Guaranteed ^Ö For Love Nor Money ^Ö Angels By Day ^Ö The Sky Looks So Special ^Ö The Wallow ^Ö Exotic Jasmine - Architectural Boys and Urban Babes ^Ö The 5th of July ^Ö Everything You Know ^Ö The Things That Have To Be Said ^Ö La La La La La La La La La La ^Ö My Sailboat Glide ^Ö A Little Bit Of Courage ^Ö The Dukeries ^Ö The Hollow Men ^Ö Connie Francis Fan Club - Stop Doing That ^Ö Plus ^Ö The Something Or Others ^Ö Dear Ruth ^Ö The Day For Action ^Ö The Three Most Widely Recognised Men Who Cannot Be Trusted ^Ö Gorillas ^Ö The White Cascading Water ^Ö Cup and Mail ^Ö She Pin ^Ö The Slight Damage Never Mind ^Ö Who The Why ^Ö Forty-Seven And No Longer Counting ^Ö The World To Me ^Ö Leaf ^Ö The Back They Laugh Behind ^Ö The Especial Moments ^Ö Why I Had To Do It ^Ö Your Smile On My Face ^Ö The End Of Things ^Ö Watching For Opportunity ^Ö The Useless Advice ^Ö The Not Relevants - The Waste Landers ^Ö Because I^Òm Fucked Up 2 Vow Of Celibacy Gang ^Ö The Villanelles ^Ö Pauline Smith^Òs Worst Nightmare ^Ö A Cat ^Ö Three People All Of Whom Are Over Six Foot Four ^Ö We^Òre Not Very Good But We^Òre Triers ^Ö Or ^Ö A Broken Dream ^Ö As If Alone ^Ö The Sad Violins ^Ö The Very Gods ^Ö The Lucky Girls ^Ö The Heavenly City Of The Eighteenth Century Philosophers featuring DJ Sex Groove ^Ö The Happiness ^Ö Indelibubble ^Ö The Sheep In Shadow ^Ö We^Òre Against Stuff ^Ö The Day Lady Died ^Ö The Silver Spectacles ^Ö Facing The Wind ^Ö The Back Of Your Head ^Ö Open Mouths ^Ö The Lives ^Ö The Coast Of Africa ^Ö Devils By Night ^Ö The Line, It^Òs Been Reached ^Ö Doing Fine ^Ö The Acapulco Girl Band ^Ö Notorious Birds ^Ö The Shooting Is Over ^Ö The Other Side Of Town ^Ö The Bracelets ^Ö The Mothers And The Fathers ^Ö Spain ^Ö Me Cry ^Ö Spa Town Cloth Cap Gamblers ^Ö The Sighs ^Ö The Surrender ^Ö Ruby O Ruby ^Ö Trial And The Tribulations ^Ö The Electricians ^Ö Older Men ^Ö Love No More ^Ö The Real Answer ^Ö The Beatles ^Ö The Comfort Zone ^Ö Pie City ^Ö The World To Me ^Ö Che Guevara^Òs Mates ^Ö Shark Waters ^Ö A Slice Of Life ^Ö Upon Truth ^Ö The Wilkinsons ^Ö The Lakes ^Ö Always Be There ^Ö The Men From Ma^Òs ^Ö Four Franks ^Ö The Big Stiff Pricks - Ear Clip Symbolists ^Ö Shapelessness ^Ö The Poet Laureates ^Ö Dome ^Ö Karl Marx and Diana Spencer ^Ö The Loop ^Ö The Shepherds ^Ö Flock By Night ^Ö The Squalor ^Ö Shipping Out ^Ö The Bards ^Ö Sequential Stress ^Ö Comperes Of Chaos ^Ö The Bank Statements ^Ö Explaining Things To Ruby ^Ö Yes We Will ^Ö Everything Must Change ^Ö The Donovans ^Ö File Edit View ^Ö Rocking Horse Manure ^Ö La Derbyshire ^Ö The Heavier Than Thous ^Ö Pin Top Saxophonists ^Ö The O^ÒAngels ^Ö The Cups Of Tea ^Ö That Which Silently Approaches ^Ö You Had Your Chance ^Ö Girls Discussing Girls ^Ö We Are Us 3 The Unashamed ^Ö Okay ^Ö The Takings ^Ö All Of The Alphabet ^Ö Spendthrifty ^Ö All Of The Gamblers ^Ö Sheridan Group Tombola ^Ö Crickety Crick ^Ö The Answering ^Ö Cuddle Thunder ^Ö The No Mads - The Mouse Alhambras ^Ö The Doncasters ^Ö Works ^Ö Another 6% - The Bath Waters ^Ö Things Could Not Be Better ^Ö Huh!! ^Ö The River Thames ^Ö My Only Childhood ^Ö Violins And Violins ^Ö The Yeats ^Ö Radio Video ^Ö The Borings ^Ö Mr. Grumpy ^Ö The Peter Schmiechels ^Ö The Scarlet Pimpernells ^Ö Shallo ^Ö O, I Don^Òt Know And I Don^Òt Care ^Ö Shop Shop ^Ö A Boy A Girl ^Ö The Wolverhampton Wanderers ^Ö Excuse Me ^Ö You^Òre Going To Have A Wonderful Time ^Ö Name That Tune ^Ö The Bob Monkhouse Band ^Ö Unacknowledged Legislators Of The Estate ^Ö The Money ^Ö Advancing Years ^Ö The Europeans ^Ö There^Òs Nobody Here ^Ö Ponies Or Horses ^Ö The Suspended Animals ^Ö O Toes ^Ö Garden Peace ^Ö You Sounded Different ^Ö But You Weren^Òt ^Ö Cello Army ^Ö The Arsenal ^Ö Ground ^Ö A Telescopic View ^Ö The Defensives ^Ö A Nice Bloke Or Two ^Ö The Unwelcome Advances ^Ö You Sound Like Me ^Ö The Befores And Afters ^Ö No More Of That ^Ö Tired And Tried ^Ö The Lifes ^Ö The Wide Open Cunts ^Ö The Sudden Lapse Of Taste - The Chess Club ^Ö Shush ^Ö The Phils ^Ö Ask No More ^Ö The Lost Cause ^Ö Complete Finished ^Ö The Lisas ^Ö The Overweights ^Ö I Do This ^Ö Our Dad- The Sunshines ^Ö The Bandages On My Arm ^Ö The Cantos - ! Oh Alright Then ^Ö The Nearly Dones ^Ö Shape And Shop ^Ö The Road To Eakring Is Fraught With Desire ^Ö The Impalables ^Ö Squashed ^Ö Various Subjects ^Ö The Attachments ^Ö Chinese Lanterns ^Ö The Kitchens ^Ö Pencil Tips ^Ö Can^Òt ^Ö Special Mentions ^Ö The Sevens Of Nine ^Ö I Was Wondering ^Ö The Jasmines ^Ö The Johns ^Ö Palimpsest Concourse Gang ^Ö The Imitators ^Ö More Successful Than You ^Ö Confounded Grammarians ^Ö Wine Arias ^Ö The I Love This ^Ö The Beethovens ^Ö The Extracts ^Ö Something By George Harrison ^Ö The Unconditional ^Ö Is This The End? ^Ö The Yes Mads ^Ö Extradition ^Ö Swiss Maids ^Ö Les Embarrassments ^Ö Fred Table And The Chairs ^Ö The Parting Remarks ^Ö The Crassly Commercials ^Ö The Forgotten Greats ^Ö The Necks ^Ö Pulling Ourself Together ^Ö Hitting The Ground ^Ö The Eye Witnesses ^Ö Monique^Òs Panties ^Ö The Important Utterances ^Ö Two Weeks Running ^Ö The Morning After ^Ö Say Yes To Stress 4 The Young Drinkers ^Ö I Know You^Òre Going To Enjoy This ^Ö Members Of The World ^Ö Alright And Okay ^Ö Added Swirly Bits ^Ö The Bestest ^Ö The Tonsil Twins ^Ö This Is Not A Job ^Ö The Expediency ^Ö The Death Of Life ^Ö Pepper ^Ö This Isn^Òt Real (Though I Guess It Could Be) ^Ö The Puzzle ^Ö Complicated Machines ^Ö 192 ^Ö The Zooms ^Ö The Moniques ^Ö Missing Ruth ^Ö The Minutes Not The Days ^Ö Some But Not Much ^Ö Water And The Gang ^Ö Fuck This ^Ö The Really Nice ^Ö A Lift To Netherfield ^Ö Alicia Zip ^Ö The Bob Dylans ^Ö Tom And The Stern Eliots ^Ö- Candy Look Like Rain ^Ö The Big Ships ^Ö But Of Course ^Ö The Mrs. Cool - The Rose Parade ^Ö Everyone Else Is ^Ö Sleep Walkers ^Ö The Mute Memories ^Ö Girl And The Grooves ^Ö The Out Louds ^Ö The Soonest Mendeds ^Ö More Fools ^Ö The Less Received ^Ö Grand Delinquents ^Ö The Missing ^Ö Based On The Gravitational Pull ^Ö And The And The ^Ö You Are In Edinburgh ^Ö Take These Dreams Away ^Ö The Me And You ^Ö Caress ^Ö The Beech Buoys ^Ö Death In Argos ^Ö Fears In The Tense ^Ö The Ears ^Ö A Certain Kind Of Music ^Ö The Blooming Foods ^Ö Open Necklaces ^Ö Beep And Bop ^Ö The Only Sound Was The Sound Of Regret ^Ö Leather- Faced Kate ^Ö Sullenly Yours ^Ö The Plump Festivals - + and - - The Differences Between Us ^Ö The To Goes ^Ö Consequence Of A Deed ^Ö Men And Boys All In A Rage ^Ö Summary Excavation ^Ö Glum Elections ^Ö The Imagination Holding Sway ^Ö The Eye Love This ^Ö The Normal Lives ^Ö Finger Hearts ^Ö Ecstatic Occasions ^Ö The Clarence Project ^Ö Noises In Your Head ^Ö The Clear ^Ö We Are The News ^Ö Only Idyllics ^Ö The Good Excuses ^Ö Separate Curtains ^Ö What You Want ^Ö An Only Child ^Ö The Importance Of Being 5 Awake! Awaken! ^Ö The Landscapes ^Ö Shepherds And Nymphs ^Ö The In The Beginning There Was An Idea To Have A Good Times ^Ö The Marble Country ^Ö The Lace Lovers ^Ö The Afternoons ^Ö The Thumbnail Blues ^Ö The Dark Walls ^Ö All Reasons Why ^Ö The Comedians In The Snow ^Ö HMS Fracas ^Ö Monica^Òs Friends ^Ö The Fallings ^Ö Fading Stars ^Ö That Extra Inch ^Ö The Coals In August ^Ö The Bridge ^Ö The Cheerfulness ^Ö In Spite Of Everything ^Ö Those Babies Again ^Ö Aftermath ^Ö The Parting Shots ^Ö We Add Up ^Ö All Of Me ^Ö The Nightmare Goes On And Ons ^Ö Our Own Little Multi-Media Show ^Ö The Very Up-To-Dates ^Ö Caring Daring Boys ^Ö The Only Yous ^Ö As If ^ÑTwere Normal ^Ö The Syd Barrett Copyists ^Ö Four Secretaries On Their Lunch Break ^Ö The Cunnings ^Ö Empty Pocket Serenaders ^Ö The Happies At Home ^Ö Spine Conference ^Ö The Times ^Ö The Misunderstandings ^Ö Pallis Ov Dreemz ^ÖThe Good Leaders ^Ö Sirens And Screams ^ÖWhere Is The Real Mr. Yates? - Convivial ^Ö The Parties Of The Big Heart ^Ö R.U.O.K. - The Breakaway Republic Of Chechnya ^Ö Into The Coming Weeks And Months ^Ö The Implications ^Ö The Bus ^Ö Sharp End, The ^Ö Babe Choreography ^Ö The Biggest Shout At The World ^Ö The Worries ^Ö Will To Carry On ^Ö The Fight Of Our Lives ^Ö We Have It ^Ö One November ^Ö The Still Virgins ^ÖAfter All These Years ^Ö Some Vague Notion Of ^Ö The Ref waves Play On ^Ö Bliss Delivers ^Ö The Easy Ones ^Ö As If Summer ^Ö The Majestic Whatevers ^Ö The Last Impressions ^Ö Heidenstrom ^Ö Long Gones ^Ö er nai - The Same For You And Me ^Ö Man Pump Prolong Ring ^Ö The Cool Shoppings ^Ö The Mrs Beans ^Ö The Pullings Together ^Ö Best Version Of Me ^Ö Peaking Twin Star System ^Ö Doe Ray Mee Forever ^Ö The As Ifs ^Ö The Big Gladness ^Ö The Late Afternoons ^Ö Pornographic Picassos ^Ö A Ship Called Melancholy ^Ö 15 Musical Scenes ^Ö The Table Tops ^Ö Keep Going For Pleasure ^Ö The Everything Is Words ^Ö All-Time Great Watchmakers ^Ö The China Whores ^Ö The Dubious Predictions ^Ö Changing Horses Group ^Ö The Pants Off Me ^Ö Tasty Loves ^Ö The Diamond Trees ^Ö Natalie Prettie ^Ö The Clubs And Bars ^Ö Seven Ways Ahead ^Ö The Crossing The Great Divide ^Ö The Introductions ^Ö Up Arrow Down Arrow ^Ö The Blunt Pinks ^Ö The Cancelled ^Ö The I Was Lonelys ^Ö The Cups ^Ö The But Then You ^Ö Not Long To Go ^Ö The Arrived In My Life ^Ö The Any Things ^Ö The Many Misunderstood Things Martin Stannard ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:50:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Fouhy Subject: Thomas Lux, Poet Reading April 8th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Northern Westchester Center for the Arts 272 N. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY 10549 Contact: Cindy Beer-Fouhy 914 241 6922 ext 17 Award Winning Poet THOMAS LUX At Creative Arts Café Poetry Series CELEBRATE NATIONAL POETRY MONTH Mt. Kisco, NY: April 8th at 7:30 PM the Creative Arts Café Poetry Series at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts celebrates National Poetry Month with a selection of poetry events and feature poets beginning with Poet Thomas Lux. Professor Lux will read selections of his poetry including poems from his new book The Streets of Clocks (Houghton Mifflin, 2001). The reading is located at NWCA 272 N. Bedford Road, Mt. Kisco, NY. A Reception, Book signing and Open Mike follow the reading. Other events include: April 15th at 7:00PM at NWCA - FAVORITE POEM PROJECT - readings of favorite poems in music, dance, theatre and literature presented by community poets, writers and more. April 24th 7:00 PM (at the FLYING PIG FARM MARKET CAFE) feature poet Anne Marie Macari followed by open mike. Wine and appetizers will be offered before the reading. This event is free and open to the Public. April 29th 7:00 first annual HS Student Poetry Slam at NWCA featuring students from local High Schools hosted by Cindy Beer-Fouhy. Thomas Lux was born in Northampton, Massachusetts, in 1946. He was educated at Emerson College and The University of Iowa. His books of poetry include The Street of Clocks (Houghton Mifflin, 2001); New and Selected Poems, 1975-1995 (1997), which was a finalist for the 1998 Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize; The Blind Swimmer: Selected Early Poems, 1970-1975 (1996); Split Horizon (1994), for which he received the Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award; Pecked to Death by Swans (1993); A Boat in the Forest (1992); The Drowned River: New Poems (1990); Half Promised Land (1986); Tarantulas on the Lifebuoy (1983); Massachusetts (1981); Like a Wide Anvil from the Moon the Light (1980); Sunday (1979); Madrigal on the Way Home (1977); The Glassblower's Breath (1976); Memory's Handgrenade (1972); and The Land Sighted (1970). Thomas Lux also has edited The Sanity of Earth and Grass (1994, with Jane Cooper and Sylvia Winner) and has translated Versions of Campana (1977). Lux has been the poet in residence at Emerson College (1972-1975), and a member of the Writing Faculty at Sarah Lawrence College and the Warren Wilson MFA Program for Writers. He has also taught at the Universities of Iowa, Michigan, and California at Irvine, among others. He has been a finalist for the Los Angeles Times Book Award in Poetry and has received three National Endowment for the Arts grants and a Guggenheim Fellowship. The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series is funded in part by grants from the New York State Council on the Arts and the Bydale Foundation. The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series is located in the spacious gallery of the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts at 272 N. Bedford Road in Mt. Kisco, NY. For a full schedule of readings or further information call 914 241 6922 or log on to www.nwcaonline.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:13:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: katy Subject: Poetry of Plays MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Women Poets at Barnard presents > > >The Poetry of Plays > >Spring 2002 Conference >In the poetry of plays words are more lively words than in any other kind o= f >poetry and if one naturally liked lively words and I naturally did one like= s >to read plays in poetry. - Gertrude Stein > >April 5 - 6, 2002 > > > >The poetry conference, "The Poetry of Plays" is sponsored in part by The >Barnard Women Poets Series, which for fifteen years has hosted free, public >readings at Barnard by established and emerging women poets. Through these >poets' varied voices and styles, we have hoped to broaden and challenge our >audiences' visions of poetry's range and effects. In addition to our >readings, the series publishes a collection from a woman poet each year. >This event is co-sponsored by the Academy of American Poets, the Poetry >Society of America, and The Barnard Center for Research on Women. >General Information > >Registration: Walk-in registration will take place on Friday, April 5th and >Saturday, April 6th in the Barnard Hall Lobby, located at Broadway and 117t= h >Street. There is no pre-registration for this event. >Fee: The fee for the two-day conference is $40, ($20 per day). The fee for >affiliates of Barnard College, The Academy of American Poets, and The Poetr= y >Society of America is $30 ($15 per day). Fee for evening performances only >is $10 each night. All students who present student ID receive free >admission. > >Questions: If you have any questions regarding the program, accommodations, >or any special needs, please contact Jill Di Donato at (212) 854-2721. >Although there is no parking available at the College, information on >parking in the vicinity is available upon request. Barnard College is >wheelchair accessible. > >Friday, April 5th > >Registration and Morning Coffee (9 AM - 10 AM) >Barnard Hall Lobby > >Panel 1: Stein and Theatre (10 AM - 12 Noon) Chaired by Elisabeth Frost >Held Auditorium, 304 Barnard Hall >1. Catherine Kasper, University of Texas at San Antonio, "Stein's >Performance Persona: 'Yes I know Mademoiselle Gertrude, the world is a >theatre for you.'" >2. Kimberly Lamm, Universtiy of Washington, "Making and Playing Gertrude >Stein." >3. Christina Milletti, Eastern Michigan University, "Stein's 'Lively Words'= : >Citing the Limits of Gender." >4. Bevya Rosten, New York University and Yale School of Drama, "The >Fractured Stage." >Stein segments read by Kris Dean of the Royal National Theatre Studio of >Great Britain, and the Royal Shakespeare Company. > > >Lunch (12 Noon - 2 PM) >Viewing of the Stein documentary film, "When This You See Remember Me." >409 Barnard Hall >Book Sales (12 Noon - 1:30 PM) Sulzberger Parlor Find various books >on and by Gertrude Stein, as well as titles by conference participants for >sale by Labyrinth Books. > > >Roundtable Discussion with Poets/Playwrights (2 PM - 4 PM) >409 Barnard Hall >Lee Ann Brown Tony Torn Christine Hume Bevya Rosten >Anna Rabinowitz David Levine Susan Wheeler Leslie Scalapino > > >Evening Performances (7:30 PM - 10 PM) >Held Auditorium, 304 Barnard Hall >"Gertrude Stein's 'Roastbeef'" adapted and directed by Bevya Rosten, New >York University and Yale School of Drama; performed by Judith Jablonka, >Lindsay Edward, P.J. Griffith, and Daniel Smith.* >Dance performance "Rooms and Buildings" based on Stein's "Rooms." Created >and performed by Mary Overlie, Paul Langland and Wendell Beavers. Originall= y >created for the Gertrude Stein Octoberfest. Curated and produced by Bevya >Rosten.* >"Darkling" written by Anna Rabinowitz, American Letters & Commentary. Based >on the poem "Darkling" by Anna Rabinowitz. Produced and directed by David >Levine; performed by Kevin Hurly. >"Fata Morgana Alaska" a performance by Christine Hume, Eastern Michigan >University. >=85 Performances will take place in LeFrak Gymnasium > > >Saturday, April 6th >Registration and Morning Coffee (9 AM - 10 AM) Barnard Hall Lobby > >Panel 2: Stein and Theatre Chaired by Mary Ann Caws (10 AM - 12 Noon) >Held Auditorium, 304 Barnard Hall >1. Mary Ann Caws, Distinguished Professor at the Graduate Center of the Cit= y >of New York, "Seeing, With Gertrude Stein." >2. Juliana Spahr, University of Hawaii, Manoa, "Teaching Stein Through >Performance." >3. Margaret Vandenburg, Barnard College, "The Political Stage of Gertrude >Steins Dramatic Theory." >4. Linda Voris, Independent Scholar, "Saints and Singing and Difference and >Landscape." >Stein segments read by Kris Dean of the Royal National Theatre Studio of >Great Britain, and the Royal Shakespeare Company. > >Lunch (12 Noon - 1:30 PM) >Viewing of the Stein documentary film, "Four Saints in Three Acts" & "When >This You See Remember Me." 409 Barnard Hall >Book Sales (12 Noon - 1:30PM) Sulzberger Parlor Find various books o= n >and by Gertrude Stein, as well as titles by conference participants for sal= e >by Labyrinth Books. > >Afternoon Performances (1:30 PM - 2:30 PM) >Held Auditorium, 304 Barnard Hall > >"Remains" a performance by Beth Scroggin, Messiah College and Ellen >Branscomb, Harisburh Area Community College. > >"Oral History: A Monologue" a performance by Anne-Marie Levine, Independent >Scholar. > > >Keynote Address, Laura Hinton The City College of New York, "Fetishism and >the Performative Spectator in the Writings of Leslie Scalapino" (2:30 PM - >3:30 PM) Held Auditorium, 304 Barnard Hall > >Panel 3: On Leslie Scalapino and Poet's Theatre Chaired by Lisa Samuels >(3:30 PM - 5:30 PM) Held Auditorium, 304 Barnard Hall >1. Charles Bernstein, SUNY-Buffalo, "Is There a Poem in This Play?: Poetry'= s >Secret Battle to Liberate Theater." >2. Elisabeth Frost, Fordham University, "How Bodies Act: Leslie Scalapino's >Still Performance." >3. Jena Osman, Temple University, "Leslie Scalapino in the Word Circus." >4. Zack, Stanford University, "ReMapping Undefined Territory: Staging >Scalapino." >Evening Reception (5:30 PM - 7 PM) Sulzberger Parlor >Book Sales (5:30 PM - 7:30 PM) Sulzberger Parlor Find various books o= n >and by Gertrude Stein, as well as titles by conference participants for sal= e >by Labyrinth. > > > > > >Evening Performances (7:30 PM - 10 PM) All performances will b= e >held in Held Auditorium, 304 Barnard Hall >"How Phenomena Appear to Unfold/The Hind" written by Leslie Scalapino. >Designed and directed by Zack; performed by Tonyanna Borkhovi, Maggie Siska= , >Jonathan Wise, Sergey Terentyev, Mandy Khoshnevisan, Jen=E9e LaMarque, and >Zack. >*Note: In light of 9/11 this performance contains sensitive material. >"Sonic Trauma: Performed Poems" by Tracie Morris, Sarah Lawrence College. >"The Ring of Strategic Influence" a performance by Jena Osman, Temple >University. >"Wine and Dime in Time, an introduction to Miss Stein's Most Mysterious >Business in Baltimore: A Wedding." a performance by Susan Wheeler, Princeto= n >University, The New School; performed by Lily Saint, Danielle Pafunda, >Robert Morris, Mark Bibbins, Anju Andre-Bergmann, and Amelia Whitney. >"The 13th Sunday in Ordinary Time" written by Lee Ann Brown, St. John's >University and New School University. Directed by Tony Torn; performed by >Cynthia Nelson, Karla Schickele, Louis Levy, Julie Paton, and Lee Ann Brown= =2E > > > > > > >WITH APPRECIATION: The organizers of the conference, Jill Di Donato and >Claudia Rankine, would like to thank The Center for Research on Women, The >Academy of American Poets and The Poetry Society of America for their >invaluable support. >subject to change > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:54:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: subrosa@SPEAKEASY.NET Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Northwest Concrete & Visual Poetry Exhibition 2002 Location: OSEAO Gallery 14th & Pike [above the American Artificial Limb Co.] enter on Pike Time: Runs from April 8th through May 31st in conjunction with the 2002 Seattle Poetry Festival Hours: 4 PM - 8 PM Monday - Saturday FREE to the public (donations accepted) Reception/Event - May 10th This exhibit, curated by Nico Vassilakis, will feature a sampling of contemporary concrete/visual poetry by Northwest poets/artists alongside practioners from around the country and the world. Also, a computer slideshow of the historical origin of TEXT AS IMAGE {medieval patterned poetry, typographic dada experiments, and concrete poetry of the 50's - 70's} and an audio presentation of 20th century SOUND POETS [such as Kurt Schwitters]. The basic idea of 'concrete'/visual poetry is that the alphabet (thus language) is not only fraught with meaning, but its elements are immersed in visual possibilities Northwest contributors: Bryant Mason, Jim Andrews, Joseph Keppler, NBB/Nancy Burr, Mark Owens, Ezra Mark, Trudy Mercer, Helen Lessick, Christopher Stern, Maris Kundzins, Peter Sawicki, Craig Hill, Bill Shively, Bonnie Thompson Norman, Ron Starr, Stefan Knorr, Douglas Spangle, Christian French, Nico Vassilakis, Sarah Mangold Not Northwest contributors: John M Bennett, Bill Bissett, JW Curry, Scott Helmes, Reed Altemus, Denis Mizzi, Richard Kostelanetz, Karl Young, Michael Peters, Spencer Selby, Klaus Groh, William Harroff, Clemente Padin, David Baptiste Chirot. Miekal And ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:58:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Bassford Subject: Exoterica Welcomes Gray Jacobik MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poet Gray Jacobik will appear at The Riverdale Society for Ethical Culture, with the Exoterica Reading Series, on Saturday, April 6, at 8 pm. The reading is accessible by taking the #1 subway line to the 242nd St. terminal. Gray Jacobik is a widely published poet whose work has appeared recently in The Best American Poetry 1997 & 1999, Poetry, The Kenyon Review, Ontario Review, Sycamore Review, Ploughshares, and the Alaska Quarterly Review, among others. She is the recipient of a National Endowment for the Arts Fellowship, fellowships from the Connecticut Commission on the Arts, the 1997 winner of The Yeats Prize given by The Yeats Society of New York, and The Emily Dickinson Prize sponsored by Universities West Press. Her book, The Double Task, University of Massachusetts Press (1998), received The Juniper Prize and was nominated for The James Laughlin Award. The Surface of Last Scattering (Texas Review Press, 1999) was selected as the winner of the X. J. Kennedy Poetry Prize. Her newest collection, Brave Disguises, winner of the AWP Poetry Series Award, will be published in the fall of 2002 by the University of Pittsburgh Press. United States Poet Laureate Billy Collins has said, "Gray Jacobik's poetry vibrates with an intensely female spirit, a voice that is eager to declare her presence and flood the world with her worlds. Her language is lush and smart, rich and crafted. And her cultural scope-which includes Erik Satie and Pinocchio, Sappho and Magritte-allows her, like the English metaphysicals, to use what she knows to discover and express what she feels. Open this book, and it will pull you in." REMEMBER TO CHECK OUT WWW.EXOTERICA.ORG FOR FULL COVERAGE OF THIS AND WORD:THE JAY LIVESON MEMORIAL POETRY AND MUSIC FESTIVAL. EXOTERICA...WE'LL BE SPREADING THE WORD... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:00:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: Index as a Form? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I seem to recall an index poem by Nicholson Baker in _The New Yorker_ sometime in the 1990's. Uh, it must have been in a doctor's office waiting room or something! Not like I READ IT REGULARLY at the time or anything! OK, fine! They got me on the phone with one of those help-the-kids-with-leukemia subscription things. Are you happy? Kasey >From: Maria Damon >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Index as a Form? >Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:13:07 -0600 > >great question, no answers from here, but would like to know. index esp; >listing has probably been done a lot, as anaphora is a well-examined >rhetorical trope. so please respond thru poetix! thanks all! > >At 9:36 PM -0800 3/28/02, Pete Balestrieri wrote: > >Hi, > > > >Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? > >Has listing as a technique been examined critically > >anywhere? Thanks. > > > >Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding > >publishing on demand. > > > >Pete > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > >http://greetings.yahoo.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:03:01 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Index as a Form? An avuncular response. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where is the index to "A" is it in the BNC at Texas? Or has it been found in "A" by readers/researchers? Obviously the listing technique is a good one: a friend of mine (who took up poetry later than I even) Leicester Kyle had as a poem a list of errata - which of course had been done in "Errata Suite" by (sorry cant recall just now) I did a poem called "Chains" which used the method of moving (from an initially randomly chosen word "Hastate" from my Shorter Oxford) ... in a sense an old dictionary is a ready list, a ready structure: I have (NFS I claim!) the First Edition of "in the Early Morning Rain" by Ted Berrigan ..actually just noticed that his "Rusty Nails" is a bit like my "Chains" in that the title and the "response" to the title are deliberately not congruent (often a humorous or humoresque effect resultant: or the congruence or relevance or connection or whatever is obscure eg as in Stein's "Tender Buttons" also he lists the "Ten Greatest Books of the Year, 1968". But is it Goldsmith (the US not the earlier British Goldsmith!) who has a huge book which amasses thousands of words including ones scrabble fanatics would only know about or where to obtain: so its kind of "self-indexing" ... that would be interesting to look at again. One is always skeptical: the form of the jar is their: the structure loos above but aroud what is it structured and why? That's my "probem" , eg even tho a lot pf people liked "Chains" I couldnt really explain why I'd written it: it lacked an underpinning theme: I just wrote it (maybe that doesnt matter) ... however indexing seems like a good starting point for eg "writer's block"... Some thoughts. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aldon Nielsen" To: Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:50 AM Subject: Re: Index as a Form? > By the time this reaches the list, I expect several will have chimed in > with Zukofsky's marvelous index to "A", with its entries for "wrist," > "thought," "tohuy bohu" etc. > > Not to be overlooked is the index to David Bromige's RED HATS -- > > > At 09:36 PM 3/28/2002 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? > >Has listing as a technique been examined critically > >anywhere? Thanks. > > > >Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding > >publishing on demand. > > > >Pete > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > >http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "You made a mistake. You did something wrong. > Now make another mistake, and do something right." > --Sun Ra > > Aldon Lynn Nielsen > George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:54:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Index as a Form? An avuncular response. In-Reply-To: <001a01c1d9e2$256cad00$4de236d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Where is the index to "A" is it in the BNC at Texas? Or has it been found in >"A" by readers/researchers? As they say round here during baseball season, you could look it up. The last 20 pages of any of the complete editions of "A" published since whenever, the mid-1970s are an index of the poem created by Zukofsky. -- Herb Levy Mappings: new music in RealAudio P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 USA http://antennaradio.com/mappings/show.htm mappings@antennaradio.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 21:00:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: erroneous attribution Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Since the question arises: Errata 5uite is by Joan Retallack -- Rod Smith can tell you is there are still copies to be had -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tell Her -- the page I never wrote! Tell Her, I only said -- the Syntax -- And left the Verb and the Pronoun -- out! --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 20:01:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Here you go: 1. http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/lists/ 2. Mike Topp is an expert lister. 3. I too have given a lot of thought to lists. Go terps, -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 21:24:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Gilbert Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Marianne Moore's first book, "Observations" (1924), includes a wonderfully fanciful index with lots of odd entries. Unfortunately the book has not been reprinted in its original form and is hard to find. A good university library should have it. Ginsberg's "Collected Poems" has an index of proper names. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 21:24:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Index as a Form? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html

<< I seem to recall an index poem by Nicholson Baker in _The New Yorker_sometime in the 1990's.

Uh, it must have been in a doctor's office waiting room or something! Not like I READ IT REGULARLY at the time or anything!

>OK, fine! They got me on the phone with one of those help-the-kids-with-leukemia subscription things. Are you happy?>>

You should have subscribed to Vogue; that's where the indices are.  In the party reports.

 

>From: "K.Silem Mohammad"
>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group
>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
>Subject: Re: Index as a Form?
>Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:00:53 -0800
>
>
>Kasey
>
>
>
>
>>From: Maria Damon
>>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group
>>
>>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
>>Subject: Re: Index as a Form?
>>Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:13:07 -0600
>>
>>great question, no answers from here, but would like to know.
>>index esp;
>>listing has probably been done a lot, as anaphora is a
>>well-examined
>>rhetorical trope. so please respond thru poetix! thanks all!
>>
>>At 9:36 PM -0800 3/28/02, Pete Balestrieri wrote:
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form?
>> >Has listing as a technique been examined critically
>> >anywhere? Thanks.
>> >
>> >Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding
>> >publishing on demand.
>> >
>> >Pete
>> >
>> >__________________________________________________
>> >Do You Yahoo!?
>> >Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
>> >http://greetings.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>K. Silem Mohammad
>Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit
>University of California Santa Cruz
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


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========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:06:59 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/1/02 9:24:04 PM, rsg2@CORNELL.EDU writes: >Marianne Moore's first book, "Observations" (1924), includes a wonderfully >fanciful index with lots of odd entries. Unfortunately the book has not >been reprinted in its original form and is hard to find. A good university >library should have it. > >Ginsberg's "Collected Poems" has an index of proper names. > I think the original question related to using index as a poetic device, maybe ironically, and not to books of poems which contained indexes. In the memorial reading of Gregory Corso's poetry at the Poetry Project, Gary Sullivan read the titles of the poems in "The Happy Birthday of Death" which appeared as a list, I think, at the end of the book. That was a striking use of indexing. I think Gary has a extended interest in the poetic possibilities of indexes. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Zirconia reviewed with appropriate zeal Comments: To: ira@angel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The below review on the Warrior Web, the Black Warrior's web arm, to be found at http://webdelsol.com/bwr/ww3/jack.html Zirconia can be purchased from http://www.fencebooks.com, or from http://spdbooks.org, or from http://www.upne.com *** Zachary Jack / A review of Chelsey Minnis's Zirconia Zirconia: Poems by Chelsey Minnis Fence Books, 2001 It is hard, at first, not to be disappointed with Chelsey Minnis's aptly named first book, Zirconia, whose ellipses-studded interiors appear, on first inspection, gimmicky and cut-rate-undercooked and oversold. However, Minnis, a graduate of the Iowa Writer's Workshop and a keystone in Fence Book's young American poets line, makes a starry debut in this slight but dazzling ravishment of phrase fragments and pearled ellipses. Minnis' effort is, in a word, brilliant, as the titular wink suggests. It is not, however, glaringly imitative, though the demonology it conjures is not unlike Sexton and Plath's. The book opens with the whimsical "A Speech About the Moon," a wild rumpus in couplets where the speaker importunes the moon and its schizophrenic symbology: "silver hitching ball," "placid sea monster," "silver leg iron" (2). The elliptical moments, so much a fixture of what follows, enter the volume organically here, arising in moments of indecision, revision and ecstatic redirection. "A Speech's" unsettled and unsettling rhetoric, its relentless interrogations, function as both invocation and ars poetica: "I have to invent warm tawny roses that have never been seen before.// Then I fix the sheets which are twisted around my ankles and think, 'I have to be tormented.'" Overall, though, Minnis' dark night of the soul is more slumber party, concluding with the epistemologically aphoristic "thoughts are like terrible ballet teachers with canes" ("A Speech" 3). In tone, Minnis is emphatically more Charlie's Angels than Belle of Amherst, the poet-speaker wanting roughed-up by the stuff of life, to take as much as to dish, a wish made explicit in the poem "Uh" which begins "..uh..........I want to wear hot pants . . . . and rest my boot on the back of a man's neck . . . and . . . . rise out of arctic waters with curled icicles in my hair and a speargun" (13). In Minnis' blow-by-blow, such powerlust rebounds as self-punishment: "I am too petulant . . . and . . . I . . .want them to . . . centre death blows between . . . my shoulder blades . . . and . . . then . . . gently lick electrodes . . . and stick them to my temples" (15). There is something at once delightfully retro (read Nancy Sinatra) and tragically hip about Zirconia-a vision and revision that takes in the best of Anne Carsen, C.D. Wright, and Alice Notley-and makes it playful, even campy. Zirconia's prose interludes ("Report on the Babies," "The Skull Rings," "The Torturers," and "The Aquamarine") represent Minnis at her most surreally deadpan, while giving the reader a badly-needed break from the gazillions of dime-store ellipses. In poetic prose matching Ponge tone for odd tone, Minnis rests the reader at "Report on the Babies," a close encounters with infants who make babbling overture to a childless speaker whose dark tone resembles Poe's, given feminine intuition, an hour of down time, and a double espresso. Though, in poems hung on pop fashion fixtures-furs, gemstones, dress-up Barbies-and righteous anger at a male establishment ("Uh's" "and just want . . . to pluck the grey beards of old men . . . and . . . give them . . . hairline fractures")-one detects a hint of the cliched post feminist, Minnis knows how and when to pull her punches, making the blows land as soft and satisfying as a good pillow fight. In "Big Doves" the speaker arrives with "comfortable doves . . . to accomplish . . .my soft ideas . . . and . . . . the doves are shy . . . . because they flap around . . . in the areas . . . of the heart . . . that I want . . . to be . . . flexed . . . thrashed . . . spiraled and . . . neurally lathed (6). Zirconia's glimmering phraseology, its "loose stone" parlance, must be read to be fully appreciated, sprinkled, as it is, expertly across the page. While other experiments with fragmentation, notably Alice Notley's recent work, overwhelm both the eye and cortex, Minnis is a maestro when it comes to word burnishing. The poems achieve their magnificence and translucence as much by space as by space interrupt. The word amalgams, both Latinate and vernacular, give the collection a characteristic alchemy evident in the decadent "Sectional," whose speaker sinks "into a reverie in leather . . . sectional couches . . . with caramel in my mouth" (23), adding, "I am reliving . . . a moment and revolving . . . caramel as I am surrounded on all sides by . . . soft panels of genuine . . . leather . . . . launching my molars . . . into the cluster . . . in order to . . . locate . . . the nucleus . . ." What saves Minnis' Alberta prize-winning first collection from triviality is both sense and sensibility, as it consistently transforms the startlingly mundane into the phantasmagoric "Cherry's": "I see you are kneeling. . . and raunchily . . . or ironically . . . scrubbing . . . the floors with your . . . naughty manual labor . . . but . . . you want to whisper your fears into the ear swirls of the wood . . ." (27). What Minnis does better than any of her peers is not so much render moments as deepen and elongate them, most emblematically in the poem "Flashbulb," where the poet's sprawling syntax descends like photons, like stardust in a burst aftermath. In "Flashbulb," "Uncut," and elsewhere, Minnis realizes the language-sustain lesser writer's realize only as etude. Minnis' virtuosity and charm occasionally fail her in Zirconia, in poems like "Supervermillion" and "Champagne," which come off sounding like Dr. Demento novelty tracks or B-52's b-sides-but, overall, this is a remarkably sure-footed and enthused whole. In the last third of the book, Minnis deftly weaves in what is, presumably, autobiography, as in "Primrose," which relives the speaker's mother's rape, recalling "blood in the courtyard . . . and blood on the birdbath . . .and blood drizzled . . . on brown flagstones . . . as a red fox bared its teeth . . . white harts . . . froze . . . and snow-hares fled . . . and left . . . heartshaped footprints in the snow . . . that melted . . . in the spring when I was born . . . and it is torture . . . for my mother . . . that I am now luscious . . . and she is dead" (41-42). In the end, praise for Zirconia must end up in superlatives, though not the "diamond-quality," knock-off variety the title ironically anticipates. Minnis is careful not to undersell her gift in this first collection, whose dazzling moments belong both to a wildchild improviser and a sage conductor. [Editor's Note: Since this book is typographically complex (and virtually unquotable in its way), we are using three ellipses to stand in for Minnis's long, elliptical strands; four ellipses are used when quoting non-contiguous lines to indicate skipped or omitted material. Read the book itself-obviously-for the full effect.] Zachary Jack teaches English and Journalism in Greeneville, in the hills of East Tennessee, where Saturday nights are still filled with hard light and hot pickin'. ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:21:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: playwright Charles Fuller via webcast Comments: To: writesrhouse@dept.english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the Kelly Writers House Fellows program presents Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright CHARLES FULLER - via live webcast - 10:30 AM Tuesday, April 16 a conversation with Charles Fuller eastern time To participate via webcast, you must rsvp to: << whfellow@english.upenn.edu >>. Anyone with a computer and an internet connection can participate. Participants in the webcast will be able to interact with Charles Fuller by email or telephone. For more information about the Kelly Writers House webcast series, see http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ Those who rsvp will receive further instructions. Playwright Charles Fuller co-founded the Afro-American Arts theater in his hometown, Philadelphia, in 1967. Fuller first received critical acclaim in 1969 for his play, THE PERFECT PARTY. He won an Obie award for ZOOMAN AND THE SIGN in 1980 and in 1982 he won the Pulitzer Prize for drama for A SOLDIER'S PLAY. That play was made into a film, A SOLDIER'S STORY, starring Howard E. Rollins, Jr., and Denzel Washington, among others, in 1984. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Writers House Fellows, 2002 novelist MICHAEL CUNNINGHAM February 11-12 poet JOHN ASHBERY March 25-26 playwright CHARLES FULLER April 15-16 Generous support for Writers House Fellows comes from Paul Kelly. Charles Fuller's visit is co-sponsored by Art Sanctuary and Temple University. previous Writers House Fellows: June Jordan 2001 David Sedaris Tony Kushner Grace Paley 2000 Robert Creeley John Edgar Wideman Gay Talese 1999 recordings of live webcasts featuring the Fellows can be found here: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:45:21 -0500 Reply-To: Bowery_Poetry_Club-feedback-4@lb.bcentral.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: "The Bowery Poetry Club" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Bowery Poetry Club: We May Not Be Open, but we got plenty poetry for y'all MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends! Well, if you're not busy being born you're busy dying, and over at the Bo= wery Poetry Club we continue a busy birth. Suuuure, it's a Dragola Totale= that we're not Gunghoing -- a round of applesauce, please, for our patie= nt barristas and bartenders: Piper Anderson, Cristin O'Keefe Aptowicz, La= urel Barclay, Edward Clapp, Lizzie Schechter, and Shappy -- who await, as= we all do, the Official Announcement. Our Kafkaesque predicament might m= ake a good short story. Tis a terrible poem, however. Patience!! Till "then," we bring you our upcoming events: Every Wednesday in April, 10PM: Janet Hamill and Moving Star. Our vote fo= r Poetry Band of the year! Hypnotic lyrics -- does she channel Rimbaud or= is she simply from the wrong century? We dunno, and neither does her ban= d ("Upstate's Greatest Garage Band") -- but we do know that when Janet Ha= mill leans back, she touches another world, where surrealism ain't no big= sur. ($5/free w/ St Marks Church ticket stub) April 3, 9PM: Barrista Reading, free: Bowery staff speaks out. Try ou= r delicious organic coffee -- for free! April 10, 7PM: Persian poetry. A cocktail event w/ Msrs. Rumi & Hafiz= Free. April 17 & 24, 8 & 11: Zach Glass Band. Super voice, worldbeat, amazi= ng and $5. Beat Fest 2002 Thursday, April 11:10 PM $5: Beat Poetry Slam! You as Ginsberg or Corso,= winning fifty bucks! Hosted by Bob Holman. Friday, April 12: 7 PM $7 The Black Beats! Poetry of Bob Kaufman, Ted = Joans, LeRoi Jones, and others, in contemporary settings. Saturday, April 13 4 PM FREE Beat Chicks Live! Roundtable Discussion and= Frenzy!=A0=A0An open forum led by Ann Charters, Ronna Johnson, Regina We= inrich, Joyce Johnson, Hettie Jones, and Janine Pomy Vega. Saturday, April 13 8PM $8 : BEAT CHICKS LIVE! The Reading! Poets as abov= e, introed by critics above. An Historic Event! Sunday, April 14 2-5 PM FREE Book Party: Herschel Silverman's Lift-Off = from Water Row Books and Long Shot Productions. =93The Unsung Beat=94 Every Thursday in April at 7:30: Urbana! To Slam or open read: 7PM. Featu= res at 8: April 4 Glenis Shearer, April 10 Alexis O'Hara, April17 Jack Mc= Carthy, April 24 Ragan Fox. Sunday, April 7, 2PM, $7/$5 students "Readings on the Bowery" from 4 Way = Books: Joanna Goodman, Browning Porter, Kurt Brown, Rebecca Wolff. The Bowery Poetry Club 308 The Bowery (Bleecker-Houston: F to 2nd Av, 6 to Lafayette St) NY NY 10012 212-641-0505 (soon!) www.bowerypoetry.com serving the world poetry Webmistress the effervescent Ms Jackie Sheeler: check her at poetz.com! A= nd search out the current issue (#48) of Enid Dame's and Don Lev's "Home = Planet News" with cover story on The Club!! _______________________________________________________________________ Powered by List Builder To unsubscribe follow the link: http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/manage/subscriberprefs?customerid=3D18073&subid= =3DA1445D7B2026570F&msgnum=3D4 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 00:06:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--May 2002 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street (west of Greenwich Street) New York City FREE April 6 Christine Casson, Browning Porter, Marc Solomon, Dan Tobin, Lauren Yaffe April 13 Madeleine Beckman, Patrick Rosal, Angelo Verga April 20 A reading for the journal RUNES with CB Follet and friends April 27 Joy Katz, David Lehman, Catie Rosemurgy For more information, contact Michael Broder or Jason Schneiderman at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 01:58:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Christopher W. Alexander" Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:20:24 -0500, Nate and Jane Dorward wrote: > Two instances that come to mind as notable (and pointedly idiosyncratic) > indexes are those to Pope's _Dunciad_ & Zukofsky's _"A"_. [1] ONE: more index Zukofsky's "Index of Names & Objects" is indeed idiosyncratic; and how like him to acknowledge that the index as a form raises more questions than it answers, being itself an irresistable alternate route through any book. Beginning with a massive, though surely not an exhaustive citation of "a" and subsequent entries for "A"-1 through -20 (though not sections 21-24, of which the index is nevertheless paginally inclusive), Zuk's index careers through such oddities as Agamemnon (listed separately for Roman and Italic versions), allspice, an, anemone, arm, arms, aunt, be, "Bible, The" - and so on. Das Kapital appears (where mentioned, not where quoted) between dandelion and date palm, followed soon by the long entries at day, death, delight, desire, dog, dream, ear, earth - and so on. Eye of course has its expansive due, as does, minutely, finnimbrun. Having been much occupied with Oppen lately, I am relieved to see there is but one entry for Heidegger. Finally - well, not finally, but before moving on - let's not forget Zuk's "preoccupation," horse. Finnimbrun, by the way, is defined by the OED as "a trifle" or (equally obscure imho) "a gimcrack"; it is a nonce term that entered the language solely by way of its publication in Izaak Walton's Universal Angler (1676 - it includes a revised version of the book you're thinking of): "He saw Ribbins and Looking-glasses ... and Hobbyhorses ... and all the other finnimbruns that make a compleat Country Fair." Perhaps we should alert the nice folks at the Dictionary of the word's popular resurgence circa 1967: "Like: Diogenes at / the fair's finnimbruns - / 'admiring in animals / what we hate / in men?'" Of the million other things to say regarding Zuk's index - and how could there not be more than a million? - it may be worth noting that: 1. Several of the entries for "a" cite blocks of text (e.g., the first four pages of "A"-22), perhaps indicating undiscovered mathematical constraints comparable to those discussed by Ahearn, and by Zuk himself in his little sourcebook to "A"-8. 2. Most of the entries for the various sections of "A" in fact refer not to the pages on which those sections commence, but to the separate index for "A"-24; the rest of the entries refer to various places in "A"-17 where earlier sections are cited, and one citation in "A"-18. 3. Etcetera. If we can say to a certainty that "Index of Names & Objects" is not a poem, that can only be on the grounds that it is a piece of writing - they come up periodically, delightfully - that makes the distinction itself small and uncertain. [2] TWO: less index I have often thought the same with regard to Marianne Moore, who is too often taken at her word and considered parsimonious in her insistent citation of lines "in which the chief interest is borrowed." Those who would hold this view should consider, first, the comic excess of "A Note on the Notes" - the introductory paragraph that is in fact followed by a note on the notes. Next one might look at her solicitous opening: "A willingness to satisfy contrary objections to one's manner of writing might turn one's work into the donkey that finally found itself being carried by its masters..." Having looked, then we might ask who is the real jackass in this picture? but the reader who obtrudes with his suggestions. As not infrequently in her work, here one finds Moore's language a lace barely concealing a tone implying bad feeling. Most famous in this category is her "Pedantic Literalist," but one also finds it in, e.g., "The Monkeys": reading the 1921 version, one finds it was, by title, "My Apish Cousins" - not necessarily or even probably the zoo animals - that "winked too much and were afraid of snakes." In any case, the complaintant reader of the notes is summarily dismissed with a phrase whose slight but definite excess only MM could discover: "Perhaps those who are annoyed by provisos, detainments, and postscripts could be persuaded to take probity on faith and disregard the notes." On the other hand, it seems highly questionable that Moore's inclusion of the notes has aught to do, as she claims, with honesty. Any careful reader of the poems can attest that there are quotations that remain uncited, not to mention a mixed use of quotation marks that appear and disappear in the various editions that she edited, as well as regular self-as-source quotations. Even in the notes, the distinction between quoted and "original" material is uncommonly clouded. And this is not to mention, of course, the relation of the content to tone, and tone to veritable feeling - for she must be, as my friend Nick Lawrence once called her, "Ashbery's grandmother." But all of this is far afield of the index, and another story altogether. The other Zukofsky index is, of course, the one that opens "Poem beginning 'The'" - his first published poem, wasn't it? So there's more symmetry between the "A" and "The" than meets the eye. Okay: I'll say no more but to recommend, for brief comment on the comic uselessness of Zuk's earlier index, Ming-Qian Ma's article "A 'no man's land!': Postmodern Citationality in Zukofsky's 'Poem beginning 'The''" (in Mark Scroggins' collection Upper Limit Music). Yawn. 'night. ciao. c Christopher W. Alexander cwa@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 00:15:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: Index as a Form? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Someone else may have already mentioned this, but Stephen Rodefer's _Four Lectures_ also has a (playfully composed) index. Mark DuCharme >From: Aldon Nielsen >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Index as a Form? >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:50:56 -0500 > >By the time this reaches the list, I expect several will have chimed in >with Zukofsky's marvelous index to "A", with its entries for "wrist," >"thought," "tohuy bohu" etc. > >Not to be overlooked is the index to David Bromige's RED HATS -- > > >At 09:36 PM 3/28/2002 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>Does anyone know of writers using the index as a form? >>Has listing as a technique been examined critically >>anywhere? Thanks. >> >>Many thanks to all who sent useful advice regarding >>publishing on demand. >> >>Pete >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover >>http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "You made a mistake. You did something wrong. > Now make another mistake, and do something >right." > --Sun Ra > >Aldon Lynn Nielsen >George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature >Department of English >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 'poetry because things say' ^×Bernadette Mayer http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 18:21:19 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: geraldine mckenzie Subject: Re: Catch me at the Bowery Club and Zinc Bar Comments: To: Bowery_Poetry_Club-feedback-4@lb.bcentral.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm visiting New York briefly and will be reading at the Bowery Club on Wednesday 17th April at 6.30 and at the Zinc Bar on Thursday 18th April at 6.30 for 7. Please come along - if you don't know my work, this is a chance to hear it but you can look up Jacket, How2, Cauldron & Net, Sugarmule, Perforations, Samizdat (online) beforehand. There are a few magazines as well but I've just been to the dentist and not up to remembering issues. As you can see, I'm not good at pushing so I'll quote from the blurb of Duty (published last year): Hear ye! Hear ye! Geraldine McKenzie is entering the language hall of mirrors. Listen for the inflections of the reflections. Duty calls. And then some. - Charles Bernstein See you soon Geraldine _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:29:54 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: geraldine mckenzie Subject: Re: Garry Keanan at the Zinc Bar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I just found out who I'm reading with at the Zinc Bar: Garry Keanan - Thursday 18th April 6.30. for 7.00 Garry was in the final issue of Oblique - Writings from the New Coast - should be a good night. Geraldine _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 03:48:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Palma Subject: Sad News - John Thomas and Marta Mitrovich Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FWD - >> "This past Easter weekend, Southern California poetry lost two vital and beloved members of the community. Marta Mitrovich was a seminal figure in Orange County poetry, hosting the long-running Laguna Poets series from its inception in the 1970s through its first 20 years. John Thomas was one of the original Venice Beats, who could claim friendship with both Ezra Pound and Charles Bukowski while carving his own significant niche in the Los Angeles poetry scene over the last 30 years. We will be dedicating The Big Picture, with love, to their memory." >> There is a nice recent photo of John Thomas at http://www.beyondbaroque.org/bigpicture/gallery/thomas_long.html -Christine ____________________________________ Christine Palma "Echo in the Sense" - Poetry, Prose, Performance - Cultural and Public Affairs Programming KXLU Los Angeles - 88.9 FM Saturday Evenings from 8 to 9 PM E-mail: Christine@DROMO.com Tel: (714) 979-3414 "Take a step into the sublime. . ." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:02:24 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nabakov's "Pale Fire" which is (based on or around) a poem in iambics and rhyme rather like something by Pope or even Frost and is sometimes quite beautiful: certainly I found it hauntingly strange. But it is then "Indexed" or noted by the killer of the poet who then proceeds to spend a page or so on a word or a line. Or less on other things: and these "notes" refer often to further notes: and of course there arenotes on notes....and so on... But there is apparently a very complex, a supercomplex intagio of meanings and references that revolve around in something that is almost Borgesian. Pope indexed his Illliad I think and the Dunciad is a vast list: a splenetic plenitude of vituperation and hate and of course its rather droll and probably a great poem by that stunted torquatious and billious being. This is intersting on Zukofsky: like Marriane Moore he knew too much ...infuruiatingly erudite: impossibly and marvellously intelligent. Long live lists and indices. For what an index is it is an indication: it all spins, the signifiers dance, we are lost for and in words: trapped inside ideas: bubbled in the just not, the sly indexical, the fingered shapes, the thing we can define but in defining it is dissolves and is dissolved and is or is or not or is... Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher W. Alexander" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:58 PM Subject: Re: Index as a Form? > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:20:24 -0500, Nate and Jane Dorward > wrote: > > > Two instances that come to mind as notable (and pointedly idiosyncratic) > > indexes are those to Pope's _Dunciad_ & Zukofsky's _"A"_. > > [1] ONE: more index > > Zukofsky's "Index of Names & Objects" is indeed idiosyncratic; and how like > him to acknowledge that the index as a form raises more questions than it > answers, being itself an irresistable alternate route through any book. > Beginning with a massive, though surely not an exhaustive citation of "a" > and subsequent entries for "A"-1 through -20 (though not sections 21-24, of > which the index is nevertheless paginally inclusive), Zuk's index careers > through such oddities as Agamemnon (listed separately for Roman and Italic > versions), allspice, an, anemone, arm, arms, aunt, be, "Bible, The" - and > so on. Das Kapital appears (where mentioned, not where quoted) between > dandelion and date palm, followed soon by the long entries at day, death, > delight, desire, dog, dream, ear, earth - and so on. Eye of course has its > expansive due, as does, minutely, finnimbrun. Having been much occupied > with Oppen lately, I am relieved to see there is but one entry for > Heidegger. Finally - well, not finally, but before moving on - let's not > forget Zuk's "preoccupation," horse. > > Finnimbrun, by the way, is defined by the OED as "a trifle" or (equally > obscure imho) "a gimcrack"; it is a nonce term that entered the language > solely by way of its publication in Izaak Walton's Universal Angler (1676 - > it includes a revised version of the book you're thinking of): "He saw > Ribbins and Looking-glasses ... and Hobbyhorses ... and all the other > finnimbruns that make a compleat Country Fair." Perhaps we should alert the > nice folks at the Dictionary of the word's popular resurgence circa 1967: > "Like: Diogenes at / the fair's finnimbruns - / 'admiring in animals / what > we hate / in men?'" > > Of the million other things to say regarding Zuk's index - and how could > there not be more than a million? - it may be worth noting that: > > 1. Several of the entries for "a" cite blocks of text (e.g., the first four > pages of "A"-22), perhaps indicating undiscovered mathematical constraints > comparable to those discussed by Ahearn, and by Zuk himself in his little > sourcebook to "A"-8. > > 2. Most of the entries for the various sections of "A" in fact refer not to > the pages on which those sections commence, but to the separate index for > "A"-24; the rest of the entries refer to various places in "A"-17 where > earlier sections are cited, and one citation in "A"-18. > > 3. Etcetera. > > If we can say to a certainty that "Index of Names & Objects" is not a poem, > that can only be on the grounds that it is a piece of writing - they come > up periodically, delightfully - that makes the distinction itself small and > uncertain. > > > [2] TWO: less index > > I have often thought the same with regard to Marianne Moore, who is too > often taken at her word and considered parsimonious in her insistent > citation of lines "in which the chief interest is borrowed." Those who > would hold this view should consider, first, the comic excess of "A Note on > the Notes" - the introductory paragraph that is in fact followed by a note > on the notes. Next one might look at her solicitous opening: > > "A willingness to satisfy contrary objections to one's manner of writing > might turn one's work into the donkey that finally found itself being > carried by its masters..." > > Having looked, then we might ask who is the real jackass in this picture? > but the reader who obtrudes with his suggestions. As not infrequently in > her work, here one finds Moore's language a lace barely concealing a tone > implying bad feeling. Most famous in this category is her "Pedantic > Literalist," but one also finds it in, e.g., "The Monkeys": reading the > 1921 version, one finds it was, by title, "My Apish Cousins" - not > necessarily or even probably the zoo animals - that "winked too much and > were afraid of snakes." In any case, the complaintant reader of the notes > is summarily dismissed with a phrase whose slight but definite excess only > MM could discover: > > "Perhaps those who are annoyed by provisos, detainments, and postscripts > could be persuaded to take probity on faith and disregard the notes." > > On the other hand, it seems highly questionable that Moore's inclusion of > the notes has aught to do, as she claims, with honesty. Any careful reader > of the poems can attest that there are quotations that remain uncited, not > to mention a mixed use of quotation marks that appear and disappear in the > various editions that she edited, as well as regular self-as-source > quotations. Even in the notes, the distinction between quoted and > "original" material is uncommonly clouded. And this is not to mention, of > course, the relation of the content to tone, and tone to veritable feeling > - for she must be, as my friend Nick Lawrence once called her, "Ashbery's > grandmother." But all of this is far afield of the index, and another story > altogether. > > The other Zukofsky index is, of course, the one that opens "Poem beginning > 'The'" - his first published poem, wasn't it? So there's more symmetry > between the "A" and "The" than meets the eye. > > Okay: I'll say no more but to recommend, for brief comment on the comic > uselessness of Zuk's earlier index, Ming-Qian Ma's article "A 'no man's > land!': Postmodern Citationality in Zukofsky's 'Poem beginning 'The''" (in > Mark Scroggins' collection Upper Limit Music). > > Yawn. 'night. ciao. c > > > > Christopher W. Alexander > cwa@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:23:33 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Carr Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two more examples of creative indexes: Lisa Jarnot in Some Other Kind of Mission has an index/collage in the back of it. And Thalia Field, I believe, also uses one in Point and Line. Bernadette Mayer suggested playing around with the idea of an index in her list of writing experiments. http://poetryproject.com/mayer.html Best, Michael ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:47:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: Index as a Form? An avuncular response. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed My favorite in this vein is the one-page notebook of LZ's that Peter & Meredith Quartermain blew up into a very large poster in 1979 entitled "An Alphabet of Subjects (Contents this Notebook)" which outlines a portion of Bottom: On Shakespeare. Even blown up to 8 or 10 times the normal size, Zukofsky's handwriting only comes up to about a 12 point face. Nary a bit of white space on the page whatsoever, Ron Silliman Where is the index to "A" is it in the BNC at Texas? Or has it been found in "A" by readers/researchers? As they say round here during baseball season, you could look it up. The last 20 pages of any of the complete editions of "A" published since whenever, the mid-1970s are an index of the poem created by Zukofsky. -- Herb Levy Mappings: new music in RealAudio P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 USA http://antennaradio.com/mappings/show.htm mappings@antennaradio.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:50:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <135.c0699b1.29db26f5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's the one I just last night backchanneled to Eileen. It's drawn from the index to Otto Friedrich's bio of G.G., a place where the alphabet triumphs over chronology. Glenn Gould, The Art and Life of (A Found Poem) abandoning of piano considered by alter egos of ancestry of as animal lover back injury of boating accident of book published by books owned by Canadian composers recorded by cars of chair built for childhood of clothing worn by, for warmth clothing worn by, in performance competition hated by composers denigrated by concert career abandoned by concert performing disliked by control of hands lost by counterpoint as preoccupation of "creative cheating" by critics disliked by critics parodied by death of depression suffered by devotion needed by as driver early influences on eating and drinking habits of eccentricities of enemies nicknamed by fan letters to film scores by first concert attended by first experience of booing by flying feared by F minor as key to personality of fugues analyzed by games enjoyed by Grammy won by grave of hair of hands and arms soaked by hands of, insurance on hands of, sensitivity in harmonica studied by health precautions taken by health problems of hedonism disapproved of by homes of honors awarded to as hypochondriac as iconoclast hymns loved by immortality sought by improvisation distrusted by inability to analyze own talent of insomnia suffered by isolation of Italian opera disliked by late-night activity of lefthandedness of listening talents of medication taken by memorial service for memorization skills of money earned by mystical view of pianist's art held by need for control as obsession of newspaper written by (in childhood) "North" as concept of pedantry of persona of pets of Philadelphia phobia of photographs of, described physical appearance of physical mannerisms of, while playing piano's height as concern of pianos owned by pianos used by posture of press coverage of privacy guarded by private life of as prodigy prose style of pseudonyms of publicity as viewed by purpose of art as viewed by as Puritan reclusiveness of religion of reviews of lectures by reviews of music composed by reviews of writing by rivals of romantic relationship of sanity of self-consciousness of sensitivity to cold of sensitivity to physical contact of sexuality of as showman shyness of sight-reading ability of singing enjoyed by singing of, as mannerism solitude as preoccupation of spiritual explorations by stock market played by string quartet composed by stroke suffered by summer cottage of telephone conversations of tempo as concern of travel disliked by unpublished writing of videotapes owned by visual imagery in playing of Western musical tradition as viewed by work habits of writing enjoyed by --Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:16:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Poetics List Stats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following is a numeric representation of the Poetics List subscribership by country as of this morning. Keep in mind that these numbers will be skewed by the U.S.-centrism of the listserv software, which represents any address not bearing a country code (e.g., ".ca" for Canada) as if it originated in the 'States. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- Country Subscribers ------- ----------- Australia 15 Austria 1 Belgium 3 Brazil 1 Canada 44 Denmark 1 Finland 2 France 2 Germany 3 Great Britain 18 India 1 Ireland 5 Israel 1 Italy 1 Japan 5 New Zealand 12 Niue 1 Singapore 1 Spain 2 Sweden 3 Switzerland 1 Thailand 1 USA 820 Yugoslavia 1 Total number of users subscribed to the list: 947 Total number of countries represented: 24 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:25:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Call for action Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear All, Here's my first and last statement on this matter to the Poetics list. Included below are links to representatives and leaders you can contact to voice your dissent. For more information on the events, that you won't get from US media, you can go to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/0,2759,377264,00.html Jonathan * War, especially the killing of civilians (including women and children), is not, has never been, and never will offer a viable solution to conflict. WWII was not "won," but consummated in genocide and mass murder-- of Jewish as well as of Japanese civilians; a consummation that failed in any way to quench the "low intensity" conflict that has raged around the globe ever since. I am utterly ashamed of, and forswear any support for, my government's tacit (and positive) encouragement of blatant military aggression against civilians-- under the ideological blanket of a "war on terror"-- as well as of what amount to war crimes (which include execution-style killings of captured enemy) under the Geneva Convention. I, and thousands of other Americans like me, urge those in power, on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, to immediately put an end to hostilities. Furthermore, Israel must withdraw from Palestinian territories, and both Palestinian and Israeli leaders must come to the table with good faith and unwavering determination to implement a lasting peace. International observers presently on the ground in the Palestinian territories should be authorized and deployed. I also urge my own government to end the U.S. manufacture and exportation of military hardware to unstable corners of the globe, as well as the biased and disproportionate U.S. funding of Israeli militarism. If any force must be used, it should be to enforce a no-weapons embargo on areas like Palestine and Israel. Let the leaders of the free world lead by example, not by the barrel of a gun! By the same token, I also urge Palestinian leaders to cease and dismantle the ideology of suicide martyrdom. The Palestinian murder of Israeli civilians does nothing for the Palestinian cause. The brutal Israeli treatment of Palestinian peoples is likewise impotent to prevent these atrocities, and does nothing for the Israeli cause. If murder and brutality must be commited, let such behavior stain the enemy's hands and confuse the enemy's mind! Nonviolent resistance is a far stronger force; if not the victor in the short term it is the only one history will bear out, and the only force capable of putting an end to the conflict. By this token, military attacks on peace activists in Ramallah and Bethlemen constitute the darkest possible act. Please, both sides (and those who implicitly support them), call off the attacks NOW! Sincerely, Jonathan Skinner Rhodes Scholar, New Mexico and Merton '91 Graduate Student, Writer and Educator, SUNY at Buffalo, NY * Please contact your political representatives immediately and ask them to urge a cessation of hostilities on both sides. Also encourage them to urge the use of international observers, many of whom are currently in Ramallah and the surrounding area. You can sign on to my letter if you like. You can easily find how to contact for your own U.S. Senators and Congresspeople at http://government.aol.com. To begin, here are four important people to address. Use phone AND fax AND email: President George W. Bush The White House 1600 Pennsylvanian Avenue Washington, DC 20500 Phone: (202) 456-1111 -- Fax: (202) 456-2461 -- E-mail: president@whitehouse.gov Vice President Dick Cheney (The White House, as above) vicepresident@whitehouse.gov Condoleezza Rice National Security Advisor (The White House, as above) Secretary of State Colin Powell U.S. Department of State 2201 C Street, NW Washington, DC 20520 Phone: (202) 647-6575 Fax: (202) 261-8577 -- E-mail: secretary@state.gov United Nations Administration: webmaster@unhcr.ch areca@unhcr.ch unsco@palnet.com ecu@un.org coi@un.org webadmin.hchr@unog.ch * And below is a link to a site that sends, or attempts to send, your message to the following officials: Ambassador Samir Baker Ambassador Yahia Rabah Secretary Colin Powell Ambassador Nasser Al-Kidwa Defense Managing Director Amos Yaron Ambassador Imad Jada Ambassador George Salamah Ambassador Khaled Ghazal Defense Spokesperson Shlomo Dror Mr. George Bush Ambassador Sabri Ateya Ambassador Issam Bseisso Ambassador Yousef Al-Habbab Prime Minister's Spokesperson Arnon Pearlman-Tzadok Palestinian Negotiation Affairs Department Ambassador Samir Abu Ghazaleh Ambassador Ibrahim Al-Zeben Deputy Minister of Defense Dalya Rabin-Philosof Ambassador Eugene Makhlouf Prime Minister Ariel Sharon Foreign Affairs Director-General Avi Gil Defense Public Relations Director Hadasa Klepfish Ambassador Yousef Rajab Radii Palestinian National Authority Ambassador Salah Al-Zawawi Speaker Avraham Burg Progressive Portal File Ambassador Mohammad Abu-Koash Mr. Dick Cheney Ambassador Zuheir El-Wazer Ambassador Abdallah Abdallah Prime Minister's Public Relations Director Rutti Bait Ambassador Yassin Al-Sharif Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister Michael Melchior Prime Minister's Managing Director Avigdor Yitzhaki Minister of Defense Benjamin Ben Eliezer Ambassador Omar Kittmitto Minister of Foreign Affairs Shimon Peres http://www.progressiveportal.org/letters/global/palestinians/ Hello -- Thank you for writing a letter calling for de-escalation of the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. A few brief notes: 1. PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD! -------------------------- Please spread the word! Here is a brief note you can copy and paste into a new email message addressed to all of your friends and associates: I have just sent a letter to Middle East decision-makers calling on them to de-escalate the Israeli/Palestinian crisis. Please join me by going to the Progressive Portal Web site and sending a letter of your own -- it takes only a minute: http://www.progressiveportal.org/letters/global/palestinians/ 2. NO NEED TO SEND US ERROR MESSAGES ------------------------------------ Your letters were sent by email or fax. We are closely monitoring the deliverability of all messages, so if you get any error messages, there's no need to forward them to us. (We are aware that some Washington fax machines are working intermittently; your letters to those officials are also sent by email, so they will reach their destinations. Some Israeli government email boxes are full, but most are getting our messages.) webweaver-AT-progressiveportal.org http://www.progressiveportal.org Your Internet Starting-Point for Progressive Activism 2887 College Ave. #274, Berkeley, CA 94705-2154 Fax and Voice Messages: (208) 247-0911 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:32:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Clinefelter Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <135.c0699b1.29db26f5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii All of this should be filed under an index with the heading of Y-A-W-N. Poor little academics...why don't you folks get out into some sunshine and fresh air. It's nonsense like this that proves why poetry doesn't belong in the academies. Speaking of which, I had planned to give my poetry collection to SUNY Buffalo, but instead, I'll leave it to my kids so the words live in their hearts and minds. I live for the day when Postmodernism is seen for the empty-headed slop that it is, and maybe you folks will start writing POETRY like thinking humans instead of chit-chatting about "poetics" like so many lillies of the field. *********************************************** ....And dark the Sun and Moon, and the Almanach de Gotha And the Stock Exchange Gazette, the Directory of Directors, And cold the sense and LOST THE MOTIVE OF ACTION. -T.S. Eliot *********************************************** Jim Clinefelter Editor, WHITEWALL OF SOUND and ZWIRN __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:14:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Index as a Form MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9905&L=poetics&P=R8690 I'm glad Ken Rumbles mentioned ~The Vermont Notebook.~ (It is, in some ways, Ashbery's most innovative book, out of print since the mid-'70s, and not excerpted in his ~Selected.~ I don't think the date passed yet, but he's giving a reading from its re-printing--- this month? at the St. Mark's Poetry Project.) In 1999, I posted to the Buffalo Poetics List ( http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9905&L=poetics&P=R8690 ) a ~poesie verite'~ index/list culled from a "Microsoft Access at a Glance" tutorial manual. The manual was sodden with ideological undertone. Microsoft's writers concocted: invented brand names [e.g., "Chai (Exotic Liquids)"], television programs ["Killer Frogs"], ethnically cleansed personal names and locations ["Janet Marks (1467 Park Dr.) Colummbus [sic] MN", "Cane Patchy"], and Melnick/Inman-esque typos for spellcheck ["liuke"]. http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9905&L=poetics&P=R8690 [Make sure URL is all on one line, or re-paste into "Location:" window.] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:09:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Poets Theater in Detroit / New Play by Carla Harryman Opens Friday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Via Cambridge, Mass., New York, and San Francisco, Poets Theater arrives in Detroit! Performing Objects Stationed in the Sub World by Carla Harryman ZeitGeist Gallery and Performance Venue 2661 Michigan Avenue, Detroit Friday, April 5, through Saturday, April 27, 2002 Continuing its commitment to art fostered in the city of Detroit, ZeitGeist Detroit is pleased to present the premier production of Performing Objects Stationed in the Sub World, a new play by Carla Harryman. Performing Objects Stationed in the Sub World is a playful exploration of memory and presence, of time as a function and a fluid that simultaneously blurs and delineates our notions of past and present, city and suburb. The language, actors, the objects that occupy the stage collaborate in the creation of dialogue and song, scene and satire, emotion and color. Child: This love life doesn't seem very gritty, does it? No feuds. No macabre family members disrupting make-out sessions in the back seat of a disabled vehicle. And only a hint of starvation, which is, in any case, voluntary. And when you think of the children nearby rallying toward another yard of perfect lawn line, where once there were mobs with fists raised crashing in on the home of auto magnates, or so I wish, the dirt of desire slips out of the grip of this account. And still this is it: vast, ferocious, surreptitious, unorthodox, unsafe, slippery wet. I can hear my mother's voice in the distance. Ms. Harryman was a co-founder of the San Francisco Poets Theater, and currently lectures at Wayne State University. She has published over a dozen works, most recently Gardener of Stars (Atelos Press, 2002), reviewed at: http://metrotimes.com/editorial/review.asp?id=62217. ZeitGeist's production features a phenomenal ensemble: Amy Arena (recently of San Francisco), Phil Bolden (David's Red-Haired Death), Elana Elyce (Second City), Maria Haag (Mary the Maid in The Bald Soprano), and Jen House (Hal King in Abreact Theater's Lady Bright Review). John Jakary (Waiting for Godot) directs. Performance dates and times for Performing Objects Stationed in the Sub World are: Friday/Saturday, April 5/6, at 8:00 PM Friday/Saturday, April 12/13, at 8:00 PM Sunday, April 14, 4:00 PM Friday/Saturday, April 19/20, at 8:00 PM Sunday, April 21, 4:00 PM Friday/Saturday, April 26/27, 8:00 PM Admission for all performances is $15; $10 Student Admission (with student ID). ZeitGeist Gallery and Performance Venue is located at 2661 Michigan Avenue between 19th and 20th Streets, Detroit, less than a mile west of old Tiger Stadium. For additional information and reservations, call 313-965-9192. ZeitGeist is also located on the web at: http://www.zeitgeistdetroit.org/currentstage.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:41:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: joy katz Subject: seeking dean young, jorie graham, dara weir, james tate Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit for an anthology, seeking these e-addresses. b/c please. many thanks. joy katz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: lillies [sic] of the field Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Jim Clinefelter >All of this should be filed under an index with the >heading of >Y-A-W-N. Poor little academics...why don't you folks >get out into some sunshine and fresh air. It's >nonsense like this that proves why poetry doesn't >belong in the academies. Speaking of which, I had >planned to give my poetry collection to SUNY Buffalo, >but instead, I'll leave it to my kids so the words >live in their hearts and minds. I live for the day >when Postmodernism is seen for the empty-headed slop >that it is, and maybe you folks will start writing >POETRY like thinking humans instead of chit-chatting >about "poetics" like so many lillies of the field. I know! The lilies in the field outside _my_ window, for instance, don't give me a moment's rest: it's always "lower limit" this, and "aleatory" that, and blah blah blah "neofuturist adventurism," and yak yak yak "chaste diction." Seriously, did you once have a really bad experience with an index or something? K. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:12:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: lillies [sic] of the field In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Isn't VERMONT NOTEBOOK back in print? I thought I saw a new edition recently -- Meanwhile: >>From: Jim Clinefelter >> >> Speaking of which, I had >>planned to give my poetry collection to SUNY Buffalo, >>but instead, I'll leave it to my kids so the words >>live in their hearts and minds. I live for the day >>when Postmodernism is seen for the empty-headed slop >>that it is, and maybe you folks will start writing >>POETRY like thinking humans instead of chit-chatting >>about "poetics" like so many lillies of the field. It troubles me deeply to think that someone is living for the day when Postmodernism is seen for empty-headed slop -- Myself, I've found much more to live for, including lillies of the field. I do regret mightily that we will not be able to consult the collections of Mr. Clinefelter in years to come, something else I might live for. Truthfully, the only person I ever knew of who got anywhere with Lillies of the Field was Sidney Poitier, who won an Oscar for it; Most of us thought he should have gotten it for Raisin in the Sun. But there's nothing like a group of nuns singing "Amen" (the Impressions' version) to give you something to live for --- I could live for the day I'd hear Curtis Mayfiled singing "Amen" again -- I could live for the day that Ron Silliman, Erica Hunt, Jeffery Allen and Juliana Spahr make return visits to my town. I live for the day I get home to my wife. I'll happily live for the day I read an exciting new poet -- Living for the day postmodernism is seen as empty-headed slop is rather like living for empty-headed slop -- I'll take full-headed slop any day --- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You made a mistake. You did something wrong. Now make another mistake, and do something right." --Sun Ra Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:17:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: lillies [sic] of the field In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed right on. Gene At 10:18 AM 4/2/02 -0800, you wrote: >>From: Jim Clinefelter >>All of this should be filed under an index with the >>heading of >>Y-A-W-N. Poor little academics...why don't you folks >>get out into some sunshine and fresh air. It's >>nonsense like this that proves why poetry doesn't >>belong in the academies. Speaking of which, I had >>planned to give my poetry collection to SUNY Buffalo, >>but instead, I'll leave it to my kids so the words >>live in their hearts and minds. I live for the day >>when Postmodernism is seen for the empty-headed slop >>that it is, and maybe you folks will start writing >>POETRY like thinking humans instead of chit-chatting >>about "poetics" like so many lillies of the field. > >I know! The lilies in the field outside _my_ window, for instance, don't >give me a moment's rest: it's always "lower limit" this, and "aleatory" >that, and blah blah blah "neofuturist adventurism," and yak yak yak "chaste >diction." > >Seriously, did you once have a really bad experience with an index or >something? > >K. > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >K. Silem Mohammad >Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit >University of California Santa Cruz > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:59:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <135.c0699b1.29db26f5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Two more examples of creative indexes: Lisa Jarnot in Some Other Kind of >Mission has an index/collage in the back of it. And Thalia Field, I believe, >also uses one in Point and Line. These answers have been bothering me. Did I get the original query wrong? I didnt think it was about works with indices appended, but rather the index AS the work. -- George Bowering Size 10 shoe. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:07:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT To Jim Clinefelter: "Index" poetry isn't really postmodern, is it? What about the great catalogs in the Old Testament? Ecclesiastes, Job, etc? What about the Beatitudes? Lists, catalogs, indexes, whatever you might call them, are present throughout literature. Your view seems terribly myopic. Maybe you just posted this to get a little attention, though. Let me add that I think the opposition of erudition or scholarliness as being "chit-chatting" or tea-party irrelevance is a cheap, cheap thing. There must be room to explore all the edges and corners, and I've observed that those Jeremiahs who would call us back to the "center" are often people who haven't made much hay of their own. In other words, sour grapes. I'm not saying there's no such thing as trivia, I'm just saying that short, caustic warnings against it are inconsiderate and usually cheap. That said, "index poetry", catalogs, or lists, are in no wise peripheral! If there *is* a center in Western literature, that might well be it! Look at the *%+*# ten commandments!!!! Sorry to erupt. And to imply a Christian canon. I'm probably playing into a prankster's hand. (Y-A-W-N) -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:10:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cadaly Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT the Field index is not an index to the work; she wrote the faux apparatus (with page numbers which could not possibly be correct) Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Index as a Form? > >Two more examples of creative indexes: Lisa Jarnot in Some Other Kind of > >Mission has an index/collage in the back of it. And Thalia Field, I believe, > >also uses one in Point and Line. > > These answers have been bothering me. Did I get the original query > wrong? I didnt think it was about works with indices appended, but > rather the index AS the work. > -- > George Bowering > Size 10 shoe. > Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 15:28:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: lillies [sic] of the field MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >From: Jim Clinefelter >All of this should be filed under an index with the >heading of >Y-A-W-N. Poor little academics...why don't you folks >get out into some sunshine and fresh air. It's >nonsense like this that proves why poetry doesn't >belong in the academies. Speaking of which, I had >planned to give my poetry collection to SUNY Buffalo, >but instead, I'll leave it to my kids so the words >live in their hearts and minds. I live for the day >when Postmodernism is seen for the empty-headed slop >that it is, and maybe you folks will start writing >POETRY like thinking humans instead of chit-chatting >about "poetics" like so many lillies of the field. K. Silem Mohammed wrote: I know! The lilies in the field outside _my_ window, for instance, don't give me a moment's rest: it's always "lower limit" this, and "aleatory" that, and blah blah blah "neofuturist adventurism," and yak yak yak "chaste diction." >> Now ya see, that's just what I need! I have a field of lillies [sic]... and several fields of corn stubble... and some hay, and a dried-up crick, and scads of hungry deer. Is "neofuturist adventurism" anything like Buckaroo Banzai? Can I sign up? Laura, a person who does not need to get tenure ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 15:31:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It's not an index, exactly, but there's that wonderful passage in Borges -- categorizing pigs? unhelpfully yrs LF ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:36:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Luoma Subject: Re: Kept Back Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 . . . (rocks). probably as much as a Basket of Blood. (for crying out loud) ... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 15:47:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: cyrillic language kit on the mac MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria Damon & I have just been blessed with a grant to work with translater, Maria Zavialova, to translate LITERATURE NATION into russian & publish a russian version of the website. Mosha is working on a windows machine, using, I assume I assume the windows-1251 cyrillic language set & maria & I will be working on Macs using MacCyrillic language set. Anyone know if these map out in indentical ways, or if some sort of conversion needs to happen for us to work back & forth. In my limited surfing to the subject on the net, I havent found any mention of a cross-platform standard. Welcome any advice from those in the know. mIEKAL travel lightly the LITERATURE NATION http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/litnat/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:20:34 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/2/02 3:01:36 PM, bowering@SFU.CA writes: >These answers have been bothering me. Did I get the original query >wrong? I didnt think it was about works with indices appended, but >rather the index AS the work. >-- >George Bowering George (with size 10 shoe), That's exactly my confusion also. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:36:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Re: cyrillic language kit on the mac In-Reply-To: <3CAA26E4.2A69BF2@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mIEKAL, travis ortiz here. i saw your note on the poetics list about cross platform font issues... this can be a big problem, but if you both start out with the same font that is already cross-platform that might help save you an enormous headache. when we (atelos) were publishing jalal toufic's _forthcoming_ (transliterated arabic), i had trouble because the diacritical marks did not map over correctly to my version of the font that allowed me to use the same diacritical marks. however, the company, linguistic software (www.linguisticsoftware.com) has both mac and pc fonts that *should* (in theory map correctly on both systems. my suggestion would be to get one of the cyrillic font families that does cross-over nicely and have Maria Zavialova install the version on her machine too. she can then carefully check to see if everything from her original font to the new one transferred well. it might be easier to have her do that checking. most times when you get junk characters instead of the replacement character, you can do a global search and replace. that's what i ended up doing in the end. anyway, i hope that helps. the linguistic software people were immensely courteous and helpful to me. good luck. ciao, trravis > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 1:47 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: cyrillic language kit on the mac > > > Maria Damon & I have just been blessed with a grant to work with > translater, Maria Zavialova, to translate LITERATURE NATION into > russian & publish a russian version of the website. Mosha is working on > a windows machine, using, I assume I assume the windows-1251 cyrillic > language set & maria & I will be working on Macs using MacCyrillic > language set. Anyone know if these map out in indentical ways, or if > some sort of conversion needs to happen for us to work back & forth. In > my limited surfing to the subject on the net, I havent found any mention > of a cross-platform standard. Welcome any advice from those in the > know. mIEKAL > > > travel lightly the > > LITERATURE NATION > http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/litnat/index.html > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:38:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Re: cyrillic language kit on the mac -- oops In-Reply-To: <3CAA26E4.2A69BF2@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oops... meant to back channel. sorry to the list. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:37:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: New Reprint of Laura Riding's "Though Gently" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We're having a little problem with Chris Stroffolino's subscription, which I hope to have sorted out very soon. In the mean time, he asked me to forward this message to the list. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- Subject: New Reprint of Laura Riding's "Though Gently" Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:17:13 -0800 From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Just Out, Delmar 8, edited by Jeff Hamilton including a special insert of Laura Riding's long out of print book "Though Gently" (1930) and responses to it by H.L. Hix, Laura Mullen, Nick LoLordo, Elizabeth Friedmann, Lisa Samuels, Jeff Hamilton, Tom Fisher, Jed Rasula, Jerry Harp, John Nolan, Alan J. Clark, and Chris Stroffolino In addition the magazine also includes poems by living people.... It's for sale for $10.... Editorial Office is 736 Eastgate, 3 North, St. Louis, MO. 63130 Chris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:39:46 -0500 Reply-To: mrehling@haikuhut.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Michael Rehling From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Celebrate Poetry Month with us: HAIKUHUT.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is time to celebrate POETRY MONTH, and our site: www.haikuhut.com is just the place. http://www.haikuhut.com We specialize in Haiku, Senyru, Tanka, and other 'short forms' of poetry. We have poetry by some of the best poets on the net: Beki Reese Craig Kirchner Deborah Russell Gary Blankenship Glenda Samford-Martinez Irene Koronas Joyce Chelmo Kevin Ryan Linda Vee Huston Michael Rehling Paul Kren Robert D. McManes Thomas Fortenberry Tony Schofield Wendy Howe We also have some stunning PHOTO HAIKU, featuring this month the work of DEBORAH RUSSELL! Irene Koronas, and Joyce Chelmo share Visual Images of their Art! And links to some of the finest sites for Haiku on the Web. We have MUCH more planned, so please BOOKMARK the site and return often. We have a fresh new face, and more than enough constantly changing content to be a key resource for your poetry thirst this month, and every month thereafter. http://www.haikuhut.com and don't forget to visit our sister site: http://www.poetrylives.com We want you to click on the link and join us! Michael Rehling Webmaster www.haikuhut.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:45:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Geraldine Monk & Alan Halsey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geraldine Monk & Alan Halsey Reading at the Kootenay School of Writing Saturday April 6 at 8pm 201 - 505 Hamilton Street 604-688-6001 $5/$3/$0 Co-sponsored by Raddle Moon GERALDINE MONK was born in Blackburn, Lancashire, in 1952, and is celebrated as a reader and performer of "genuine word magic ... a wonderful poet: revelatory, intense, ever surprising." She regularly works with improvised musicians; her collaboration with Martin Archer, Angel High Wires, was issued on CD by Voiceprint in 2001. Her recent books include Noctivagations (West House), Interregnum, a sequence of poems on the Pendle Witches (Creation Books), and The Sway of Precious Demons: Selected Poems (North and South). ALAN HALSEY, born in London in 1949, is a poet, book dealer, publisher, and graphic artist, whose remarkable works ("fierce and quiet ... determined, and without illusion, the kind of poetry we need") include A Robin Hood Book (West House), The Text of Shelley's Death (Five Seasons), and Wittgenstein's Devil: Selected Writing 1978-1998 (Stride). He ran the Poetry Bookshop in Hay-on-Wye from 1981-96, and lives with Geraldine Monk in Sheffield. Halsey's and Monk's works have appeared in many anthologies, including Conductors of Chaos (Picador 1996), Other: British and Irish Poetry since 1970 (Wesleyan UP 1999) and Anthology of Twentieth-Century British & Irish Poetry (Oxford UP 2001). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:00:54 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: Re: Catch me at the Bowery Club and Zinc Bar In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One of Geraldine McKenzie's poems is also in print in the latest issuer of overland magazine (the one with the Jacket magazine sample) - For more info - http://www.overlandexpress.org/166.html Cheery bye, Pam Brown --- geraldine mckenzie wrote: > I'm visiting New York briefly and will be reading at > the Bowery Club on > Wednesday 17th April at 6.30 and at the Zinc Bar on > Thursday 18th April at > 6.30 for 7. > > Please come along - if you don't know my work, this > is a chance to hear it > but you can look up Jacket, How2, Cauldron & Net, > Sugarmule, Perforations, > Samizdat (online) beforehand. There are a few > magazines as well but I've > just been to the dentist and not up to remembering > issues. > > As you can see, I'm not good at pushing so I'll > quote from the blurb of Duty > (published last year): > > Hear ye! Hear ye! Geraldine McKenzie is entering the > language hall of > mirrors. Listen for the inflections of the > reflections. Duty calls. And then > some. > - Charles Bernstein > See you soon > > Geraldine > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions - 1,000s of Bargains! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 18:07:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: oranget@GEORGETOWN.EDU Subject: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pete et al.: at least two cases in the work of bruce andrews. "index" is a quotation-collage essay from the mid-seventies, reprinted in _paradise and method_. also the table of contents for the 100 poems in _i don't have any paper so shut up, or, social romaticism_ have been printed and read on their own as a separate piece. ange mlinko has a poem called "index excerpt (book)" at http://www.dcpoetry.com/anth2001/mlinko.htm bests, tom orange ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:13:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Index as a Form? (False) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT What about a false index to a book as an art form? When I worked as an indexer I often had an impulse (good thing my impulse control was operating at the time) to provide a 'poetic' index rather than a 'factual' index to a book. i would bet others have had the same impulse and followed through? tom bell > > These answers have been bothering me. Did I get the original query > wrong? I didnt think it was about works with indices appended, but > rather the index AS the work. > -- > George Bowering > Size 10 shoe. > Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 18:34:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: oranget@GEORGETOWN.EDU Subject: new work in dcpoetry anthology 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello all, recent additions to the dcpoetry anthology 2002 include: Daniel Bouchard: Some Mountains Removed Jordan Davis: Six Poems Buck Downs: from _Extratutionalized_ Chris McCreary: _awkward minotaurs_ Jenn McCreary: from _a doctrine of signatures_ Chris Nealon: Three Poems Mel Nichols: from _The Silent Tongue_ other contributors to the anthology 2002: Renee Angle * Susan Gardner Dillon * Rachel Blau DuPlessis * Marcella Durand * Patrick Durgin * Laura Elrick * Drew Gardner * Michael Magee * Pattie McCarthy * Carol Mirakove * Leonard Schwartz * Rodrigo Toscano thanks for reading, tom orange http://www.dcpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:25:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Jennifer's essay of pride and cowardice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Jennifer's essay of pride and cowardice god did not intend for humans to populate the earth. by virtue and example of the first death, there's death for everyone. by virtue of the first murder, there's everyone's murder, our true disappearance. we're all chosen people; our time has come, we'll bring ourselves down. because of abraham, moses, jesus and mohammed, prophets of one and scapegoats of the other, we're the seeds of world destruction. by virtue of einstein, cosmos and energy-mass. by virtue of bin-laden and bush, unleashing of fermi and binding of newton, by virtue of marx and stalin, lincoln and lenin, the harnessing of humanism in the enlightenment of the slave. god did intend us to perish, i'm sure. i'm the prophet of perishing. i'm the prophet of preparation. listen and believe, believe and listen. i'm the prophet of mass-destruction, of energy-mass destruction. truly everyone's afraid, and most of all, of me. of me, me, me. of me. _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:38:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <33DB6DF9C51BD511BC4B00D0B75B2D81017086E3@esfpb03.dol.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed watch out for yo-yo dyne. actually, i guess that enron bush & cheney et al are alien. where is that ovrethruster anyway? gene At 03:31 PM 4/2/02 -0500, you wrote: > It's not an index, exactly, but there's that wonderful passage in Borges >-- categorizing pigs?111 > > unhelpfully yrs > > LF ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:44:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lisa jarnot Subject: upcoming lisa jarnot readings Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Upcoming Reading/Performances by Lisa Jarnot in New York City Monday April 8th 8 pm The Poetry Project at St. Mark=B9s Church 2nd Avenue and 10th Street Collaborations between filmmakers and poets including Lisa Jarnot and Jennifer Reeves Tuesday April 9th 8 pm Lisa Jarnot and Sam White at Bar Reis 375 5th Avenue Brooklyn (between 5th and 6th Street in Park Slope) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:28:24 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Index as a Form? An avuncular response. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I havent read - can any one "read" L Z's "A" right through? I'm about to embark - I hope it doesnt take me ten years (not of continuous reading you must understand!) as did reading Ulyssees: and Finnegans... lies somewhere unread. But I must have a good dig into Zukovsky...so he kind of recapitulates the book at the end: the "text" self -commenting? From Mark Scroggins's book and Ahearn's and somewhat Michelles Leggott's interpretation of 80 Flowers. The "Poem Beginnning The" is certainly a marvellous poem: but its fascinating to see -or I could imagine it would - the manuscript (which is one reason collectors pay such big sums eg Kerouac's "drum" manuscript or his "scroll" went for about US$2.4 million: but the thing as I saw it when I saw and exhibition at Auck Uni (1990 I think) of the various drafts of a poem by Alan Curnow was not the completed - static - "finished" or "perfect" poem at the end: what fascinated me was the whole process of the thing: in this sense I dispute the concept of things having a completed round: the process fascinates me...but many modernist and earlier poets struggled for the "perfect" poem (which if found would obviate further writing!) .. but as to the blow up of the Zukofsky - lets not belatedly sanctify him like Charles Ives was (according to (musician-composer) Berbstein hhe has been): but ceratinly he is pivotal as they say as is Stein and Marrianne Moore even maybe Bishop etal ...you all know the names: and the indexing or pointing is sly (Auden: points a sly index finger at the sky) as we know there is never a conclusion: how can we reach conclusion in this rent tent: this BigVerse? Why want to? Bottom apparently has much that is in "A" and we know that the "depth" of the etymylogical references can only reach so far: and people can come along and extend into the beginnings of the making without irony or direspect: the language belongs to...who? It would be a fool who underestinmated - not the power of terrorists or military power anywhere (West East North South) but the word: the music created by the word: the power of language to terrify and excite, baffle and enlight: the delight of lists and the attempt to order: the chargers in the lists: the charge:chaos versus dionysius and so on and on ... the ludicrously ludic: the near but never there upper limit of the music of the dance: the intellection, the vision, the connection, the disconnection, the leap, the fall, the horse: the horsing horse...in the lists..indicate in: get in: a a a aa aa aa aaa aaaa aaaaa aaaaaa aaaaaa aaaaaa aaaaaa aaaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa bbbbbbbbbbbb and so on. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Silliman" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:47 AM Subject: Re: Index as a Form? An avuncular response. > My favorite in this vein is the one-page notebook of LZ's that Peter & > Meredith Quartermain blew up into a very large poster in 1979 entitled "An > Alphabet of Subjects (Contents this Notebook)" which outlines a portion of > Bottom: On Shakespeare. Even blown up to 8 or 10 times the normal size, > Zukofsky's handwriting only comes up to about a 12 point face. Nary a bit of > white space on the page whatsoever, > > Ron Silliman > > > > > > Where is the index to "A" is it in the BNC at Texas? Or has it been found in > "A" by readers/researchers? > > As they say round here during baseball season, you could look it up. > The last 20 pages of any of the complete editions of "A" published > since whenever, the mid-1970s are an index of the poem created by > Zukofsky. > > > -- > Herb Levy > Mappings: new music in RealAudio > P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 USA > http://antennaradio.com/mappings/show.htm > mappings@antennaradio.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:30:12 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Index as a Form MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Vernmont Notebook is brilliant!! I agree - one of his most original - and often very funny: but much more ...Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Jullich" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 5:14 AM Subject: Index as a Form > http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9905&L=poetics&P=R8690 > > I'm glad Ken Rumbles mentioned ~The Vermont Notebook.~ > (It is, in some ways, Ashbery's most innovative book, > out of print since the mid-'70s, and not excerpted in > his ~Selected.~ I don't think the date passed yet, > but he's giving a reading from its re-printing--- this > month? at the St. Mark's Poetry Project.) > > > In 1999, I posted to the Buffalo Poetics List > > ( > http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9905&L=poetics&P=R8690 > ) > > a ~poesie verite'~ index/list culled from a "Microsoft > Access at a Glance" tutorial manual. The manual was > sodden with ideological undertone. > > Microsoft's writers concocted: > > invented brand names [e.g., "Chai (Exotic Liquids)"], > > television programs ["Killer Frogs"], > > ethnically cleansed personal names and locations > ["Janet Marks (1467 Park Dr.) Colummbus [sic] MN", > "Cane Patchy"], > > and Melnick/Inman-esque typos for spellcheck > ["liuke"]. > > http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9905&L=poetics&P=R8690 > > [Make sure URL is all on one line, or re-paste into > "Location:" window.] > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:40:17 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron. But people are communicating: ideas will come. The List has got some talk going: erudition: ok we are all more or less ... those who are erudite might be said to have worked hard to gain that knowledge: and are rightly proud of their knowledge: especially if others can pick up some ideas. Great things come form stones and dust.... and so on... Who cares if its been done before: let's see what we can all do with a list poem and so on. Everyone loves attention sometimes: why not? I know I do "Who hasn't wanted to burn down a public building, I know I have" (Monty Python skit)."That's probably one reason we write poems - good or bad. To show off. I'm a show off: but you wont get me to shove off...Everything is present throughout literature: its a new "take" we might be seeking: its a kind of brainstornming ... as in Chess when one considers the most unlikely moves (and the most likely) often those are the one's that win the game...or Mohammed Ali leans on the ropes....Get with it Aaron...dont become a fussy old (but very interesting) Mr Sammmler (!)...and so on... Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Belz" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Index as a Form? > To Jim Clinefelter: > > "Index" poetry isn't really postmodern, is it? What about the great > catalogs in the Old Testament? Ecclesiastes, Job, etc? What about the > Beatitudes? Lists, catalogs, indexes, whatever you might call them, are > present throughout literature. Your view seems terribly myopic. > > Maybe you just posted this to get a little attention, though. > > Let me add that I think the opposition of erudition or scholarliness as > being "chit-chatting" or tea-party irrelevance is a cheap, cheap thing. > There must be room to explore all the edges and corners, and I've observed > that those Jeremiahs who would call us back to the "center" are often people > who haven't made much hay of their own. In other words, sour grapes. I'm not > saying there's no such thing as trivia, I'm just saying that short, caustic > warnings against it are inconsiderate and usually cheap. That said, "index > poetry", catalogs, or lists, are in no wise peripheral! If there *is* a > center in Western literature, that might well be it! Look at the *%+*# ten > commandments!!!! > > Sorry to erupt. And to imply a Christian canon. I'm probably playing into a > prankster's hand. > > (Y-A-W-N) > > -Aaron > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:00:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Levy Subject: [slought] Pre-Respondents on Welish: Papers Available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Slought Networks Marjorie Welish Pre-Respondent Papers: http://slought.net/toc/conferences/welish/respondents.php 1. "Lyric's due: performative poetics..." -- Chris Tysh 2. "Syntax: A Situation.." -- Frances Richard 3. "Dialogue/ The Without" -- Matthew Jelacic and Deborah Gans 4. "Landscapes for Reading" Ron Janssen 5. "Correspondances (Beyond the structure)" Olivier Gourvil PLEASE NOTE: The word "respondent" in conferences usually means "in response to others' papers" given live although written in advance. By "pre-respondent" we mean something very different: a paper in response to work by Marjorie Welish--not work by others--not to be read in public as a free-standing paper yet circulated to the other conference participants in advance. These papers will be published online, and subsequently in book format with the papers given live. Forthcoming papers by: Kenneth Baker, Louis Cabri, Carla Harryman. http://slought.net/toc/conferences/welish/respondents.php -------------------------- EVENT REMINDER -------------------------- Marjorie Welish Conference Slought Networks @ University of Pennsylvania Friday, April 5, 2002; 10:00 am - 4:00 pm Location: Houston Hall. University of Pennsylvania 3417 Spruce Street. Philadelphia, PA Presentations by: Thomas Zummer, Joseph Masheck, Osvaldo Romberg, Keith Tuma, Norma Cole, Bob Perelman, Jean-Michel Rabat=E9 (In order of appearance) Event curated by Aaron Levy, Jean-Michel Rabat=E9. With Andrew Zitcer. More information, including visual chronology of work by Welish, and interviews with Lawrence Weiner and Nancy Spero, available online. http://slought.net/toc/conferences/welish/ http://slought.net/toc/exhibitions/diga/welish/ _________________________ Contact: info@slought.net http://slought.net/toc/subscribe/elists/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:51:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Publishers Weekly on Poetry Biz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" This link: showed up on Arts Journal this morning . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:06:05 -0600 Reply-To: dtv@mwt.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: [JPN] Eyewitness report from Ramallah Comments: To: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Report on the genocide currently underway in Palestine from a U. of Minnesota student, courtesy of Jewish Peace News. Subject: [al-awda-wi] [Fwd: [JPN] Eyewitness report from Ramallah] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [JPN] Eyewitness report from Ramallah Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 23:19:24 -0800 From: "Jewish Peace News" Reply-To: "Jewish Peace News" To: "JPN" [One might like to discuss the media coverage of the Israeli actions in the West Bank. The trouble is the IDF has done an excellent job of keeping reporters out of the area under siege. Often, the Israeli media is the best source for realities on the ground, and Palestinian sources also provide important coverage that the American "free press" does not give us. Reports now, from most sources, are vague at best and often come from official Israeli sources. International peace workers who have been able to stay in the West Bank have been able to get some word out about the actual events on the ground, and the picture they present is horrifying. The report below is a first-person account, and can't be verified. Yet it is remarkably consistent with reporting that has emerged on some sources, in dribs and drabs, such as Pacifica radio and other e-mail transmissions. While most news sources are reporting only on Israeli troop movements and various firings of guns and tank she lls, without much mention of the actual scope of damage in lives and injuries on Palestinians, the reports that have emerged through e-mail and the occasional cell phone call or other transmission paint a frightening picture of many people being killed, often in cold blood, and massive devastation in the city of Ramallah. Ambulances are prevented from reaching the wounded, and hospitals have also been all but shut down in some cases. Even journalists and internationals are not free from Israeli fire, a marked change in Israeli tactics from the past. There is a great likelihood that when the truth comes out fully about the events currently transpiring in Ramallah, it will be much worse than most people are being led to believe. - MP] http://www.electronicintifada.net/diaries/index.html Tuesday, April 2, 2002 Urgent: Eyewitness report from Ramallah Posted by The Editor Ramallah, Occupied Palestine -- My name is Tzaporah Ryter. I am an American student from the University of Minnesota. I currently am in Ramallah. We are under a terrible siege and people are being massacred by both the Israeli army and armed militia groups of Israeli settlers. They are shooting outside at anything that moves. I am urgently pleading for as much outside help as possible to help save lives here. I arrived in Ramallah last Thursday. I had come back for a visit to the Palestinian city where I had been previously living and studying. On Thursday afternoon, the Israeli army began sealing off each entrance to Ramallah and there were rumors that they planned to invade. People were rushing back home from across checkpoints and also people were trying to flee. People were not allowed to go out and many working people -- with homes and children to return to -- were not allowed in, everyone was trying to take cover. Those traveling in began desperately searching for alternative ways and traveling in groups, but the Israelis were firing upon them and everyone was running and screaming. Women carrying their children were trying desperately to flee from Ramallah, carrying infants and toddlers, and their young children were running along in the rain through the fields, slipping and falling on the rocks, trying to reach safety. Israeli jeeps were speeding across the terrain pulling up from every direction and shooting at the women and children, and also at me, as we ran in opposite directions. They were chasing down people, hunting them like that in the fields. When I reached Ramallah, people were panicking and trying to buy bread, rice and milk from corner stores, but most supplies were already gone. We bought what we could and went inside to wait for what was coming. When night fell, Israeli tanks began to invade and also we saw Israeli troops coming on foot from the valley, and surrounding our house. I could hear them calling to each other in Hebre w. They were against our door and all around. They were firing everywhere a barrage of bullets and there was tank fire. We had to lay on the floor and keep silent. We stayed there, on the floor, for nearly four days in the darkness. We knew that our circumstances were better than others because old people or infants or people with medical emergency needs had no help. It was very cold, with most families packed all in one room. Some people are without life sustaining medicines like insulin, and they are altering their doses dangerously if they have any medicine left to take. People are becoming dangerously sick from lack of food and water and heat. The fear and terror only makes things worse, but it cannot be avoided. In the daytime, we heard them shooting people in the streets, and could hear them screaming and screaming. No ambulance was allowed through. Then their screams stopped and there was just silence. We had a telephone and would receive calls from all over telling us what was happening. Everyone is in grave danger and Israeli soldiers were killing people everywhere. They are arresting medics and ambulance drivers, including foreign volunteer medical workers. They keep taking doctors and medics, just now another call. Again, this time the wife of a doctor telling us her husband has been taken from the ambulance. Large groups of people have been found in rooms, shot dead, there are blood marks where they have lined people up on their knees and shot them, with their ID cards laying on top of them. They are taking people from their homes, blindfolding them, removing their clothes, taking them away or lining them up and shooting them against the wall. People are making phone calls and saying that these soldiers and militia have come in and are shooting people and then the line cuts off. The numbers of these killings I fear are much greater than the numbers confirmed in the press, because the human rights offices and the media centers h ave been stormed, and everything is shut down. No one can move without almost certain chance of being shot by the Isreali snipers, who are everywhere. The Israelis are demanding that all journalists leave Ramallah and today another foreign journalist was shot. They do not want any more internationals here and are deporting people. It seems quite clear that they do not want eyewitnesses which is only heightening my own fears. The hospitals have also been surrounded and invaded and Israeli troops are taking the injured people and interrogating them. Today a woman, a patient, tried to walk out from hospital. The Israelis shot her in the neck and killed her. The Palestinian Ministry of Health is saying that they fear the spread of diseases because of the number of unburied corpses. The numbers are only growing in reports of the mass killings here and Israeli troops continue to round up people. People are calling frantically, missing a relative and we do not know where they ha ve been taken, including children. The numbers we have now exceed 600, and we are estimating between 700 and 800. All human rights groups and legal advocates are being denied any information of where the detained are being held. From what we know confirmed is that 10% of those taken so far have been children under age 18. On the fourth day I decided to try to move. People were running out of supplies and I also was so worried about people, and had to check to see if they were okay. If I didn't, I feared panic would overtake me so badly that I really had no other choice but to try and go. It was not safe where I was in any case and at least if I left I would still have my sanity. It was really terrifying as there are some internationals here, usually traveling in groups, and the Israelis are saying on the radio that they will arrest or shoot the internationals. They did shoot some yesterday and regardless, it's not as if snipers differentiate and they are everywhere. My fr iends told me not to go, and were really scared for me, but I had to go. When I went outside, there were cars all shot up and hit by multiple bullets and shells in the middle of the road, unparked. There must have been people in them but I don't know where their bodies are. There are no reports of them, but they must exist. I got to the corner trying to go to the bakery for bread and food for people. Some people were calling and calling with only one cup of rice left. I made it to the corner but they opened fire on my first try, and shot at me, so I had to turn back. After that I tried again and it took me one day to make it a block because I had to start over again and again. I had to climb through the valley, and as I passed house by house, people were warning me and pointing out what path seemed safest for these two minutes. In the next two minutes, it would be something different. They really helped to keep my path safe. Today is Day Five and they are still rounding up people like this and we hear them shooting all day long. This afternoon the Israelis suddenly lifted the curfew, suddenly announcing that everyone had two hours to go out to get food. However, the Israeli soldiers also took food from many of the stores, looted, and there is no bread or things. People went to get whatever they could. Even though the Israeli army said it had lifted the closure for two hours -- in which we still were not able to transfer medical supplies and still was not long enough to everything that was badly needed -- the Israelis continued shooting people in the streets indiscriminately on their way, so people were running around trying to make it to the store or find a safe route only to have to run back home again. It was an added cruelty and terror tactic in this macabre situation, a sick joke: starve people and then shoot them when they try to find food with your permission. In an apartment building in Beitunia neighborhood where I used to live, the y took 60 people who were my neighbors, including several familes, and pushed them into one room since last night. The Israelis told them that they are to be used as "human shields", as the apartment building is across from a building that they were invading. One child needs to go to the hospital since last night and, initially, the families were able to call outside. Now, the Israelis have taken their phones. There are reports that they are rounding up men between the ages of 14 and 45 in that neighborhood, and these civilians, from these same Palestinian families trapped in that building, were just used to walk in front of an Israeli tank as it invaded the Preventative Security Compound. Reports also have alleged that the Israelis were saying that some could leave but shot them when they attempted to leave. The buildings there are burning, and people are trapped inside. We keep calling to try to find people but there has been no electricity and most people's phones are dead now. I do not know what is happening to many people. The only solution to this is to try to brave the deadly streets in order to check, but its almost impossible and terrifying to leave the house at all. Each place I come to, I am afraid to leave not only for myself but for everyone else in this horrifying position. Israeli death squads have been yanking people into the street. I also hear only shooting and shooting, with no return fire. This suggest that unarmed civilians are being gunned down mercilessly everywhere and I am so scared for everyone. I feel like maybe if I leave one place, one area or neighborhood I will never see the people again alive. There are more explosions outside now and more shooting. Another explosion. More firing, it just doesn't stop. This is a massacre. The foreign delegations tried to get in but were turned back, the International Committee of the Red Cross is trying to help but they are being ignored. Please help. I am not only scared f or myself and for people here, but if this cannot be stopped, I am truly scared for all of humanity, for a world in which we send men to the moon but cannot stop ethnic cleansing. On the news in America, we see hardly anything of demonstrations. What are you doing over there? There do not seem to be any reports of what is happening. In truth, its got to stop. Please go out to the streets, please demand a response from your representatives. Be loud, march up to the capitals, refuse to leave until the Israelis withdraw. Act now! Tell them the Israelis are murdering innocent people whose only crime is being born in their own homeland, a Palestinian under a military occupation. Demand international protection for the Palestinian people, scream that this is an affront to humanity and that it is time that the US not only stop supporting Israel, but that the US stop its abuse of human rights within its own borders. This is about all of our struggles. For the love of God, please s top this slaughter. Please help. ____________________________________________________________________ Jewish Peace News (JPN) is a service provided by A Jewish Voice for Peace. JPN's editors are Adam Gutride, Sarah Anne Minkin, Judith Norman, Mitchell Plitnick, Lincoln Shlensky, and Alistair Welchman. The opinions expressed by the editors and presented in the articles sent to this list are solely those of their authors, and do not necessarily reflect the viewpoints of A Jewish Voice for Peace. A Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) is a San Francisco Bay Area grassroots organization dedicated to the human, civil and economic rights of Jews, Palestinians, and all peoples in the Middle East. For more information about JVP, please visit our web site at http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org To SUBSCRIBE to Jewish Peace News, our daily news and information service, please send an email message to: jewishpeacenews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com To JOIN the Jewish Voice for Peace community mailing list (no more than one message per week), which features Middle East peace information and local Jewish community activist updates, please send an email message to: jewishvoiceforpeace-subscribe@yahoogroups.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:17:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: paula speck Subject: Re: Index as a Form? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Laura-- I think you're remembering a Chinese encyclopedia (no doubt fictional) that Borges describes in an essay, "The Analytical Language of John Wilkins" ("El idioma analitico de John Wilkins") from *Otras inquisiciones.* I'm too lazy to find the translation that doubtless exists, so here's mine: " . . . a certain Chinese encyclopedia entitled *Celestial Emporium of Benevolent Knowledge.* In its distant pages it is written that animals are divided into these categories: (a) belonging to the Emperor, (b) mummified, (c) tame, (d) suckling pigs, (e) mermaids, (f) fantastic, (g) loose dogs, (h) included in this classification, (i) running around as if crazed, (j) uncountable, (k) drawn with a very fine camel's hair brush, (l) etcetera, (m) that have just broken a vase, (n) that from a distance look like flies. . . ." I've always thought this list was a hoot, and I also suspect that there are some in-jokes (philosophical and otherwise) included in it that I don't get. Thanks for reminding me of it. I can give more clues to finding the original if anyone's interested. Borges is a prose writer, but he played a lot of formal games of the kind you're more likely to find in poetry, such as disguising a short story as a scholarly bibliography or a book review. Paula Speck >From: Fargas Laura >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Index as a Form? >Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 15:31:51 -0500 > > It's not an index, exactly, but there's that wonderful passage in Borges >-- categorizing pigs? > > unhelpfully yrs > > LF _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:37:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: Index as a Form? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm not sure if Derek or Craig or anyone else has already mentioned or reposted this in response to the index-poem query, but the advertisement I've pasted below showed up on this list just a few weeks ago. I haven't seen the book yet, but it sounds fascinating. Kasey ------------------------------------- housepress is pleased to announce the release of : INDEX by Craig Dworkin. ABOUT INDEX: "I really do not know that anything has ever been more interesting than diagramming sentences," wrote Gertrude Stein, and when I came across the late 19th Century grammar book "How to Parse"--the very book that Stein might well have used in school--I of course began to parse it into its own system. The title, for instance, translates as "Adverb preposition of the infinitive Transitive Active Voice Infinitive Mood Present Tense Verb." The first part of this project, then, will present that translated text, and the second part of the project will be to take that parsed text as a template from which to write a new work that will be thematically quite different than the original grammar book (perhaps a novel? a love story? a manifesto?), but will have the identical grammatical structure as the original textbook. "My book might be called Philosophical Grammar. This title would no doubt have the smell of a textbook title, but that doesn't matter, for behind it there is the book" (Ludwig Wittgenstein). Or as Judith Butler puts it: "The anticipations of grammar are always and only retroactively installed." Or, again, as Nietzsche wrote: "God is dead, but we still have grammar." ABOUT CRAIG DWORKIN: Craig Dworkin is an Assistant Professor in the Department of English at Princeton University. Recent essays have appeared in October, Sagetrieb, and the St. Mark's Poetry Project Newsletter, and his critical study of the politics of appropriation, "Reading the Illegible," is forthcoming this spring from Northwestern University Press. A book of poetry is forthcoming from Atelos. published in a limited edition of 60 handbound and numbered copies. $6.00 each for more information, or to order copies, contact derek beaulieu at: derek@housepress.ca ----------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:39:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Shannon Holman Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <200204030501.g3351pJU008135@smtpin07.mac.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I haven't read the whole thread, so I hope I'm not being repetitive, but has anybody mentioned Paul Violi's index poem or Peter Gizzi's cento, Ode: Salute to the New York School 1950-1970 (A Libretto)? -- Shannon Holman work: 212.545.6089 home: 718.638.1239 sholman@mac.com -- http://www.onemississippi.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:47:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: Index as a Form? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" watch out for yo-yo dyne. actually, i guess that enron bush & cheney et al are alien. where is that ovrethruster anyway? gene>> in a secure undisclosed location, but nowhere near dick cheney. Laura ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:47:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UGA Lanier Speakers Series Subject: PIERRE JORIS POETRY READING AND LECTURE Comments: To: creative writing Comments: cc: staplesv@yahoo.com, nhilton@english.uga.edu, Jed Rasula , jordana rich , english grad students , women's studies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The next two events in the 2001-2002 Lanier Speakers Series will feature scholar, poet, and translator, Pierre Joris, Professor of English, SUNY Albany. Professor Joris will give a poetry reading at 5 p.m. on Thursday, April 4th. Please note the time change from the press-release information. On Friday at 3:30, he'll give a talk about translation and read from his translations of Paul Celan. Both events will take place in room 261 Park Hall, UGA. Pierre Joris left Luxembourg at eighteen & has since lived in the US, Great Britain, North Africa & France. He has published over 20 books & chapbooks of poetry, among them, _h.j.r._ (OtherWind Press), _Winnetou Old_ (Meow Press, Buffalo, NY), _Turbulence_ (St. Lazaire Press, Rhinebeck), and _Breccia: Selected Poems 1974-1986_ (Editions Phi / Station Hill). He as also edited several anthologies and written many volumes of translations, both into English & into French, the most recent being Paul Celan's _Theadsuns and Breathturn_, Maurice Blanchot's _The Unavowable Community_ & Edmond Jabès^Òs _From the Desert to the Book_. In 1992 he returned to the Mid-Hudson valley where he teaches in the Department of English at SUNY-Albany. With Jerome Rothenberg he has published a two-volume anthology of 20th Century Avant-Garde writings, _Poems for the Millennium_(University of California Press), the first volume of which received the 1996 Pen Oakland Josephine Miles Award for Excellence in Literature. Rothenberg & Joris^Òs previous collaboration _pppppp: Selected Writings of Kurt Schwitters_ (Temple UP, 1993) was awarded the 1994 PEN Center USA West Literary Award for Translation. A collection of poems translated into French by Jean Portante, Jean Paul Junck, the author under the title La Dernière Traversée de la Manche, was published in Luxembourg & Quebec by G-r-a-p-h-i-t-i Editeur in 1995. A new collection of poems, entitled _POASIS_ was recently published, as was a theoretical volume, _Toward a Nomadic Poetics_, from Spanner Editions in England. Rothenberg & Joris are presently co-editing & co-translating the collected writings of Pablo Picasso for Exact Change publishers in Boston. As reader & performance artist recent work includes _Manifesto&a, Quodlibet and déPLACEmentS_ in collaboration with Nicole Peyrafitte; "Pierre's Words (Toward an Opera)," a collaboration with composer Joel Chadabe & the Ellen Sinopoli Dance Company (Premiered May 3rd, 1997, The Egg, Albany); ^ÓFrozen Shadows,^Ô a dance & reading performance based on Winnetou Old, choreographed by Ellen Sinopoli & danced by the Ellen Sinopoli Dance Company (Union College, Schenectady, NY January 21, 1996; "The Egg," Albany, NY, April 12 & 13, 1995); and "This Morning" (part of Music Juggle) a multimedia collaboration with composer Xavier Chabot (Premiered at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY February 5, 1997.) For more information on Pierre Joris, please visit the following web-address: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:43:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: empty headed slop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit about "poetics" like so many lillies of the field. as empty-headed slop is rather but instead, I'll leave it to my kids so the words come, something else I might live for could live for the day that Ron Silliman, Erica Hunt, Jeffery Allen and for the empty-headed slop group of nuns singing "Amen" (the Impressions' version) to give you for the day I'd hear Curtis Mayfiled singing "Amen" again -- I I do regret mightily I could live I'll happily live I'll take full I've found but there's nothing like someone living for the day when Juliana Spahr make return visits to my town I live for the day I get home like living for empty-headed slop -- in their hearts and minds. I live for the day living for the day postmodernism is seen most of us thought of Mr. Clinefelter in years planned to give his poetry collection to SUNY Buffalo, POETRY like thinking humans instead of chit-chatting postmodernism seen for empty-headed slop -- Myself, something to live for --- speaking of which, I had that it is, and maybe you folks will start writing the Field was Sidney Poitier, who won an Oscar for it including lillies of the field to my wife truthfully, the only person I ever knew of when Postmodernism is seen who got anywhere with Lillies of will not be able to consult the collections to live for he should have gotten it for Raisin in the Sun ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:46:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Words, Delusions, Actions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear List, I usually lurk, but during a time like this perhaps poets should be paying a little attention to the corruption of political discourse. Just some meditations in a time of lies and delusions: In colonial wars, the resistance of the natives is often savage, illicit, beyond the bounds of "civilization," while the violence of the colonizers is ordered, ruled, legal, and, above all, "civilized." Native Americans commit massacres, Mau Maus target white settlers, Vietnamese ambush American soldiers, and Palestinians blow themselves up. The violence of the natives is, indeed, ugly and, often, indiscriminate. I don't think suicide bombings within the 1948 borders are tactically useful -- and I find them abhorrent -- but I doubt if attacks were limited to the West Bank and Gaza or to military targets whether the Israeli and US governments would stop calling them terrorism (just as the South African government, despite the ANC's restraint, kept calling the ANC terrorists). Sharon, meanwhile, says that his violence is really Arafat's fault, that the Palestinians are forcing him to be violent against his own will. Sharon had a close call with the Saudi peace plan, as vague as the plan may have been. Israel in 1967 said it had no territorial ambitions in the West Bank and Gaza and only wanted peace and recognition. Now that recognition is offered, Sharon had to wiggle away. No, Sharon and the Zionist leadership want to seize all of Palestine and, most importantly, destroy the Palestinian people -- or at least their national aspirations -- and Arafat made him do it. From the colonizer's point of view, Sharon understands that if he makes a REAL concession, he would not only be stopping colonial expansion and pulling back from settlements, but he would also be calling into question the entire Zionist, colonial project (and even if the refugees do not return, the fear of a "ghost dance" makes him tremble). So, he continues, slithering out of any negotiation or peace plan, and we have to understand that his real goal, his "civilized" use of violence, is to destroy the Palestinian people as a people, preferably through "transfer," also known as ethnic cleansing, a one-way ticket not just for Arafat but for everyone. If he can do this without murdering ALL the people, all the better, but if he has to kill off great numbers, do not underestimate his ability to do just that. But, given how suicide bombing has become a mass movement (a horrible thought in itself), Sharon's logic of "uprooting" terror will lead to killing the suicide bombers before they kill themselves ("Kill Suicide") -- and killing their "infrastructure," which means genocidal violence to the entire Palestinian people. Given the use of suicide in the Israeli national myth -- the graduation ceremonies of IDF soldiers at the ruins of Massada, for example, exhorting soldiers to suicide instead of defeat -- it's sadly ironic that Israelis can't seem to understand why and how Palestinians could do suicide bombings. Given the horrors of Jewish history, it's bitterly ironic that Israelis can't recognize the fighters of the Warsaw Ghetto in the eyes of the Palestinians. But, of course, the Israeli settlers are "civilized," and the Palestinian "natives" are simply cruel, savage, and value life less. And the US, cruelest of all, will continue to defend "civilization" in the form of Sharon because, as Sharon said, Arafat forced the Israelis to become murderers and he can only do what Arafat has forced him to do. Got that? Hilton Obenzinger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director of Undergraduate Research Programs for Honors Writing Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:55:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: POETRY PROJECT EVENTS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit POETRY PROJECT ANNOUNCEMENTS Visit our BOOKS FOR SALE web page to view an updated, complete listing of titles you won't find anywhere else! http://www.poetryproject.com/booksale.html Please visit the April issue of POETS & POEMS, featuring work by Renee Gladman, Jena Osman, Sawako Nakayasu, and collaborations by Jen Bervin and Alystyre Julian. http://www.poetryproject.com/poets.html CALENDAR OF EVENTS APRIL 5, FRIDAY [10:30 pm] CONNECT APRIL 8, MONDAY [8:00 p.m.] FILM/VIDEO NIGHT APRIL 10, WEDNESDAY [8:00 p.m.] JOANNE KYGER AND JANINE POMMY VEGA APRIL 12, FRIDAY [10:30 pm] BLACK TOOK: THE WILD READING For more details, visit http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html ***** APRIL 5, FRIDAY [10:30 pm] CONNECT CONNECT: art.politics.theory.practice, a new interdisciplinary journal presents an evening of experimental video and film that make unexpected connections between technology, performance, politics and the craft of art. Featuring Janie Geiser, Meredith Holch, Wu Wenguang and Jack Waters. APRIL 8, MONDAY [8:00 p.m.] FILM/VIDEO NIGHT An evening of collaborations between poets and film makers/video artists. With work by: PRAGEETA SHARMA/DALE SHERRARD, LISA LUBASCH/SARAH ZWERLING, KATE EGAN/CORT DAY, AARON KUNIN/AMIE SIEGEL, NOELLE KOCOT/JOSHUA MOSLEY, JOEL SCHLEMOWITZ/WANDA PHIPPS, BRIAN BLANCHFIELD/DANIEL KLEINFELD, CHRISTINE CABALLERO/JEFFREY MCDANIEL, JOSHUA BECKMAN/JAMES WALSH, ADEENA KARASICK/MARIANNE SHANEEN, RICK SNYDER/ ELEANA KIM, MARTHA COLBURN/99 HOOKER, JENNIFER REEVES/LISA JARNOT, MAGDALENA ZURAWSKI/BERNADINE MELLIS AND SAMANTHA HUNT. APRIL 10, WEDNESDAY [8:00 p.m.] JOANNE KYGER AND JANINE POMMY VEGA JOANNE KYGER is the author of over 20 books of poetry and has been a presence in the world of poetry for over 40 years. Her most recent book is Again: Poems 1989-2000 from La Alameda Press, 2001. A book of her selected poems, As Ever is forthcoming from Penguin. JANINE POMMY VEGA directs Incisions/Arts, an organization of writers working with people behind bars and has taught prisioners for twenty years. Her two latest books are Mad Dogs of Trieste: New & Selected Poems from Black Sparrow Press and Tracking the Serpent: Journeys to Four Continents from City Lights. APRIL 12, FRIDAY [10:30 pm] BLACK TOOK: THE WILD READING The Wild Reading will feature hyper-savage, and anthropometrically resistant yet playful gesticulations in the form of the most beautiful prose, poetry, and much more by the ever-invincible members of the Black Took Collective: DAWN LUNDY MARTIN, DURIEL E. HARRIS, RONALDO V. WILSON AND R. ERICA DOYLE. -- Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. Trains F, 6, N, R. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. If you are currently on our email list and would like to be on our regular mailing list (so you can receive a sample issue of The Poetry Project Newsletter for FREE), just reply to this email with your full name and address. Hope to hear from you soon!!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:43:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grotjohn Subject: University of Iasi, Romania needs books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received this from another list and thought this would be a good place to relay the message: Hello! I am a lecturer at the English Department of the "Alexandru Ioan Cuza" University of Iasi, Romania. My English Department is planing to introduce a course about The Ethnic Literature of the United States (mostly about the Afro-American, Native American, Chinese American novel). Unfortunately for us, we do not have funds to purchase books for this project. The average salary of a Romanian academic (university professor) is approx. $ 200 a month, and there are no institutional funds for our project. So, this American Studies project is at a dead end. But perhaps it is not so! I was studying John Winthrop's "A Model of Christian Charity", and his inspiring words have given me an idea: "We must be willing to abridge ourselves of our superfluities for the supply of others' necessities", says John Winthrop. This has given me an idea. Perhaps if I write (by E-mail) to American colleagues, to professors of American Literature (and American Studies) and ask them to send us some USED books that they could dispense of, this could help us out of our quandary. (We have only ONE COPY of "The Color Purple", by Alice Walker. The group of students signing up for this course will contain 24 people. We have no copy of "Black Boy" or "Native Son" by Richard Wright, or books by Maya Angelou, Toni Morrison, Gloria Naylor, Jean Toomer, Chinese Americans, Leslie Marmon Silko etc.) Used books that you could dispense of - classics of American Literature, not soap... We have no use for soap. I have heard that if a book package is under 4#, it can go Common (?) letter rate, and the cost is only about $ 13 to send the books by ship. Or, still better, if you send books via M-Bag, the expedition costs 1 dollar per pound. The books reach us in 3 months. Quite late, but we'll still be here after three months, the English Department is not leaving anywhere. If you or any colleagues of yours could help our English Department with used books, send books to the address below. Specify as an individual addressee the professor in charge of the project (Lecturer Irina Chirica), otherwise the books may disappear - otherwise there will be many clerks handling them at our university, and they may disappear because there will be many links until the books reach the professor in charge of the project. Lecturer Irina Chirica The English Department "Cuza University"of Iasi Bd. Copou no.11 Iasi 6600 Romania My E-mail address is: chirina@mail.dntis.ro If you are curious to find out more about our university, our internet address is: www.uaic.ro Thank you for your time. If you have no time for this, forget it and please forgive us for daring to suggest something like this. Sincerely yours, Irina Chirica, American Studies Lecturer at the University of Iasi, Romania (I teach The American Short Story, The History of American Art and two courses of American History) My favorite American writers: Eudora Welty and Truman Capote; favorite American painters: George Inness and Winslow Homer) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:58:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: University of Iasi, Romania needs books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This looks like a great idea Bob but be warned that mail is extremely slow to Romania... I had a global express package to Bucuresti take a month, I hate to think how long surface mail would take... mIEKAL Bob Grotjohn wrote: > > > I have heard that if a book package is under 4#, it can go Common (?) > letter rate, and the cost is only about $ 13 to send the books by ship. > Or, still better, if you send books via M-Bag, the expedition costs 1 > dollar per pound. The books reach us in 3 > months. Quite late, but we'll still be here after three months, the > English Department is not leaving anywhere. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 18:33:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Index as a Form? In-Reply-To: <33DB6DF9C51BD511BC4B00D0B75B2D81017086F2@esfpb03.dol.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed right-on, right-on Gene At 10:47 AM 4/3/02 -0500, you wrote: >watch out for yo-yo dyne. actually, i guess that enron bush & cheney et al >are alien. where is that ovrethruster anyway? > >gene>> > > in a secure undisclosed location, but nowhere near dick cheney. > > Laura ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:38:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Unknown Command MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - The Unknown Command >> Your message didn't have a Package: line at the start (in the Unknown >> pseudo-header following the real mail header), or didn't have a Unknown >> pseudo-header at all. Unknown command. >> This makes it much harder for us to categorise and deal with your >> problem report. Please _resubmit_ your report and tell us which package >> the report is on. For help, check out >> Your message was dated Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:11:05 -0600 and had Unknown >> message-id Unknown command. >> and subject List 'homeopathy' closed to public posts. Unknown command. >> The complete text of it is attached to this message. Unknown command. >> If you need any assistance or explanation please contact me. Unknown >> Debian bug tracking system administrator Unknown command. >> (administrator, Debian Bugs database) Unknown command. >> >> Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 3 Apr 2002 04:36:57 +0000 >> From owner-list1_site22@raq2.tcsourceone.com Tue Apr 02 22:36:57 2002 >> Return-path: Unknown command. >> Received: from raq2.tcsourceone.com [208.187.223.22] Unknown command. >> by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) Unknown command. >> id 16scW1-0001nC-00; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:36:57 -0600 Unknown command. >> Received: (from admin@localhost) Unknown command. >> by raq2.tcsourceone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26760 Unknown command. >> for list1_site22-list; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:14:59 -0700 Unknown command. >> Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:14:59 -0700 Unknown command. >> Resent-Message-Id: <200204030514.WAA26760@raq2.tcsourceone.com> Unknown >> X-Authentication-Warning: raq2.tcsourceone.com: admin set sender to >> >> Received: from server.lyghtforce.com ([66.28.104.53]) Unknown command. >> by raq2.tcsourceone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26756 Unknown >> for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:14:56 -0700 >> Received: by server.lyghtforce.com from localhost Unknown command. >> (router,SLMail V4.1); Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:11:08 -0600 Unknown command. >> for Unknown command. >> Received: from server [66.28.104.53] Unknown command. >> by server.lyghtforce.com [66.28.104.53] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP >> id 80A56D2646B411D6BB7900D0B7A64D23 Unknown command. >> for ; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:11:06 >> >> Received: from server by server (SLList/1.0); Unknown command. >> Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:11:05 -0600 Unknown command. >> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:11:05 -0600 Unknown command. >> From: "SLList" Unknown command. >> To: list1_site22@raq2.tcsourceone.com Unknown command. >> Message-ID: Unknown command. >> X-sllist-antiloop: server Unknown command. >> Subject: List 'homeopathy' closed to public posts Unknown command. >> X-SLUIDL: 7F9B8E1C-46B411D6-BB7900D0-B7A64D23 Unknown command. >> Sender: owner-list1_site22@raq2.tcsourceone.com Unknown command. >> Precedence: bulk Unknown command. >> Resent-From: list1_site22@raq2.tcsourceone.com Unknown command. >> Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; Unknown command. >> Delivered-To: submit@bugs.debian.org Unknown command. >> You have just tried to post to the Homeopathy Mailing List from an >> >> which is not subscribed to the List. Retrieving list subscriptions. >> The List is closed, which means that you must subscribe before you >> >> to it. Unknown command. >> To subscribe, send mail to Unknown >> with the Subject: subscribe Unknown command. >> --- Unknown command. >> SLList v1.0 - job execution complete. Unknown command. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 23:03:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: carol mirakove Subject: The April Poets at Zinc Bar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Oh Poets, > >You must come here some poetry ! > >For National poetry month, we at Zinc Bar have decided to have some POETS >come >to the bar to read their poems ! >Here is the schedule: > > > Sunday April 7th: >EVE KLINE & STEPHANIE LATERZA >winners of last month's come to the ZINC BAR & vote for a reader contest. > appearing with: >ETHAN FUGATE >Editor of PomPom, Curator of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, MFA George >Mason >College, Hart Crane Scholar 2002. > >{due to the overwhelming success of our March, 'come vote for an April >Reader' i have decided to to it again on the 7th} > > > Sunday April 14th: >Douglas Rothschild selects poems for BASEBALL Issue of Boog City: >Readers may include: Marcella Durand, Carol Mirakove, Peacenik, Bill >Luoma, & others--PLUS OPEN TRYOUTS--bring a baseball poem you like--Your >own, someone >elses--(3 min. or under) & READ IT. > > > Thursday April 18th: >GERALDINE MCKENZIE >famous avant-guarde poet from Australia >(as seen on the web in John Trantor's Jacket & How2 & in print in >Tinfish) > appearing with: >GARY KEENAN >(as seen in 'Writers from the New Coast' from O-blek) > > > Sunday April 21th: >MARK NOWAK >Well known Ethnographer & Poet > appearing with: >ANNA MOSCHOVAKIS >Talented poet & Agent provacature > > > Thursday April 25th: >JOE ELIOT : new york's greatest living poet & SPECIAL FRIEND > > > Sunday April 28th: >COMING SOON > > >Readings start at 6:37 Zinc Bar is downstairs at 90 west houston--just >off the corner of LaGuardia Place. Mostly it's sunday--unless it's >thursday. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:38:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020403230038.00a8e988@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> Oh Poets, >> >>You must come here some poetry ! >> >>For National poetry month, we at Zinc Bar have decided to have some POETS >>come >>to the bar to read their poems ! >>Here is the schedule: Could you tell us what city this Zinc Bar is in? >> >> >> Sunday April 7th: >>EVE KLINE & STEPHANIE LATERZA >>winners of last month's come to the ZINC BAR & vote for a reader contest. >> appearing with: >>ETHAN FUGATE >>Editor of PomPom, Curator of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, MFA George >>Mason >>College, Hart Crane Scholar 2002. >> >>{due to the overwhelming success of our March, 'come vote for an April >>Reader' i have decided to to it again on the 7th} >> >> >> Sunday April 14th: >>Douglas Rothschild selects poems for BASEBALL Issue of Boog City: >>Readers may include: Marcella Durand, Carol Mirakove, Peacenik, Bill >>Luoma, & others--PLUS OPEN TRYOUTS--bring a baseball poem you like--Your >>own, someone >>elses--(3 min. or under) & READ IT. >> >> >> Thursday April 18th: >>GERALDINE MCKENZIE >>famous avant-guarde poet from Australia >>(as seen on the web in John Trantor's Jacket & How2 & in print in >>Tinfish) >> appearing with: >>GARY KEENAN >>(as seen in 'Writers from the New Coast' from O-blek) >> >> >> Sunday April 21th: >>MARK NOWAK >>Well known Ethnographer & Poet >> appearing with: >>ANNA MOSCHOVAKIS >>Talented poet & Agent provacature >> >> >> Thursday April 25th: >>JOE ELIOT : new york's greatest living poet & SPECIAL FRIEND >> >> >> Sunday April 28th: >>COMING SOON >> >> >>Readings start at 6:37 Zinc Bar is downstairs at 90 west houston--just >>off the corner of LaGuardia Place. Mostly it's sunday--unless it's >>thursday. -- George Bowering Turned against Shell Scott. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:32:48 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Index as a Form? Further smoked-wreathed avunculation.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To be a bit "erudite" as Aaron Belz accusez-nous (actually I dont know any French: I invent my own translations: what does accusez-nous mean if anything?)...to get clever: I; say that Borges was here influenced by Swift with a dash of Rabellais .... the animals being metaphoric of certain human types: I dont know what the in jokes would be: I think that a lot of Borges stuff is just as you see it eg his gangster stories - but then I suppose its just that the acco-type boffins havent dissected him ad infinitum like they have old Joyce baby. Cheers, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "paula speck" To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 3:17 AM Subject: Re: Index as a Form? > Laura-- > > I think you're remembering a Chinese encyclopedia (no doubt fictional) that > Borges describes in an essay, "The Analytical Language of John Wilkins" ("El > idioma analitico de John Wilkins") from *Otras inquisiciones.* I'm too lazy > to find the translation that doubtless exists, so here's mine: > > " . . . a certain Chinese encyclopedia entitled *Celestial Emporium of > Benevolent Knowledge.* In its distant pages it is written that animals are > divided into these categories: (a) belonging to the Emperor, (b) mummified, > (c) tame, (d) suckling pigs, (e) mermaids, (f) fantastic, (g) loose dogs, > (h) included in this classification, (i) running around as if crazed, (j) > uncountable, (k) drawn with a very fine camel's hair brush, (l) etcetera, > (m) that have just broken a vase, (n) that from a distance look like flies. > . . ." > > I've always thought this list was a hoot, and I also suspect that there are > some in-jokes (philosophical and otherwise) included in it that I don't get. > Thanks for reminding me of it. I can give more clues to finding the > original if anyone's interested. > > Borges is a prose writer, but he played a lot of formal games of the kind > you're more likely to find in poetry, such as disguising a short story as a > scholarly bibliography or a book review. > > Paula Speck > > >From: Fargas Laura > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: Index as a Form? > >Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 15:31:51 -0500 > > > > It's not an index, exactly, but there's that wonderful passage in Borges > >-- categorizing pigs? > > > > unhelpfully yrs > > > > LF > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 23:36:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Index as a Form? Further smoked-wreathed avunculation.... In-Reply-To: <002501c1db9a$2c8a6b40$bc2337d2@01397384> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > To be a bit "erudite" as Aaron Belz accusez-nous (actually I dont know any > French: I invent my own translations: what does accusez-nous mean if > anything?)...to get clever Richard, I think you misread my post-- I was defending erudition, As always, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 02:03:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's in New York of course -- fucking New York -- every goddamned interesting thing is in New York -- which is really, really far from North Carolina................ G'night, Ken (To all: I really love NYC and this bitterness just masks a deep and true love for the place (seriously (I also love NC in part because it's just like New York but different (seriously)))) At 08:38 PM 4/3/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Could you tell us what city this Zinc Bar is in? > >>> >>> >>> Sunday April 7th: >>>EVE KLINE & STEPHANIE LATERZA >>>winners of last month's come to the ZINC BAR & vote for a reader contest. >>> appearing with: >>>ETHAN FUGATE >>>Editor of PomPom, Curator of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, MFA George >>>Mason >>>College, Hart Crane Scholar 2002. >>> >>>{due to the overwhelming success of our March, 'come vote for an April >>>Reader' i have decided to to it again on the 7th} >>> >>> >>> Sunday April 14th: >>>Douglas Rothschild selects poems for BASEBALL Issue of Boog City: >>>Readers may include: Marcella Durand, Carol Mirakove, Peacenik, Bill >>>Luoma, & others--PLUS OPEN TRYOUTS--bring a baseball poem you like--Your >>>own, someone >>>elses--(3 min. or under) & READ IT. >>> >>> >>> Thursday April 18th: >>>GERALDINE MCKENZIE >>>famous avant-guarde poet from Australia >>>(as seen on the web in John Trantor's Jacket & How2 & in print in >>>Tinfish) >>> appearing with: >>>GARY KEENAN >>>(as seen in 'Writers from the New Coast' from O-blek) >>> >>> >>> Sunday April 21th: >>>MARK NOWAK >>>Well known Ethnographer & Poet >>> appearing with: >>>ANNA MOSCHOVAKIS >>>Talented poet & Agent provacature >>> >>> >>> Thursday April 25th: >>>JOE ELIOT : new york's greatest living poet & SPECIAL FRIEND >>> >>> >>> Sunday April 28th: >>>COMING SOON >>> >>> >>>Readings start at 6:37 Zinc Bar is downstairs at 90 west houston--just >>>off the corner of LaGuardia Place. Mostly it's sunday--unless it's >>>thursday. > > >-- >George Bowering >Turned against Shell Scott. >Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 04:56:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: working class poets revisited MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT chanced to see a rerun of _CHEERS_ from the 70's (orm80s or?) where they mentioned a book of Blue Collar Poetry. tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 02:01:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the zone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - the zone this is the zone, dave said, you go to the zone. that's how we survive here. in the zone we're open to the world. it's not something i can describe. it's outside of language. it's a sensitivity to the timing and passing of familiar things. it's a withdrawal of the human from imminence, it's keenness and meditation, it's the ululations changing pitch around the pond at two in the morning, and the sound of wood stork wings at the breeding ground at five in the afternoon. the ululations changed pitch, holding the onset and rhythm through everything. at one end of the pond, other animals were signaling; everything was loud, energetic, and out of site at two in the morning. we crawled back through the thicket, photographing inside animal holes and those cavernous spaces beneath the root structures of overturned trees. there were several closeup images of cormorants, showing the structure of the back feathers. there were large egrets and a white morph of the great blue as well as several green herons feeding. cormorant young were everywhere. at shark valley, the anhinga chicks were just about ready to fly away. we stopped tourists from throwing sticks at an alligator, which was furious and moving at lightning speed. i yelled at twenty of them. i was a madman in the zone. you go to the zone, dave said, that's how you survive here. we can enter the zone any time. it's emptied of people. other things are speaking or quiet; other things approach like the peculiar anole that sat for :we were back out on the southern road to flamingo; the small unmarked boardwalk was dry, the periphyton turned to mud. this time we went out to the end at christian point; there were small crabs of two types, and horseshoe crabs washed up and dead on the shore. the cacti thickened nearer the coast, and the tri-lobed form gave way to six-lobed and then almost columnar links at the tip. the periphyton was dried, desert-dried, and there were black and light-grey lichen across the mud-flats. the first time we took the trail, there were magnificent osprey; this time, nothing. but at the farthest pond there were two roseate spoonbills. i looked for swallow-tailed kites or snail-kites at the stop-off points, but none were to be seen. a lot of blue tilapia on the anhinga trail. no more deer, just dried and desiccated landscape, various small flowers. all of the mangrove were doing well, both red and black in the desert meadow of christian point. and somewhere we heard parrots.:today we rescued one of the larger slugs; for the first time i was ensured it wasn't a flatworm - its head appeared at the upper end. the spider, about three centimeters across, managed to rebuild its web. the synchronous ululations of the frogs stopped; they were apparently signaled by yesterday's rain. in the thicket,, the medallion or blood- sucking conenoses were out again; this identification is hazy, incorrect, confusing. there were two albino ones, all pink and red and yellow, about an inch and a half in length and an inch in width. they had moved to different branches on another tree. we found our first slime mold, yellow and bulbous, in the thicket as well. and some strange small reddish birds; i'll get the identification later.::i'll get them all, these repeated images, five-hundred nine so far, repeated images, hardly moving at all. our favorite anole, beautiful and courageous and in love with innovati0n.X Folder: INBOX M My repeated images, hardly moving at all. our favorite anole, beautiful and coura geous and in love with innovation. _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:11:14 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar Reelin' in Manhatten MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken. Thou liest. Some things happen in Panmure, Auckland. We can even boast a massacre: but the poetry isnt so frequent as NY where, when I visited you could get a Poetry Calendar and I get pissed every night and go to evrything and read "incognito" and actually a few people called me "The Kiwi" but I didnt quite take NY by storm: although my poem "The Fuck" caused some double takes:I must agree with you: In those days (1993) I was fascinated by NY: the city of art and gangsters and where endless movies are based and so many crazy people and it never sleeps and it roars at you and and Ted Berrigan and Frank O'Hara were there and Dylan Thomas once and Zulofsky and many famous pop stars and so on and "Mr Sammler's Planet" is based there and many movies set there and its evil with Batman and the Joker and Andy Warhol and funny and scewy with danny deVito of the "Taxi" series and every thing happens there and everyone is dashing about like madmen or there's a guy with a big cowboy hat and a revolver outside a big hotel and you've got subways and the Brooklyn Bridge there (Hart Crane's Bridge) and I saw a squirrel for the first tiome in my life by the apple juice seller manhatten side and the guys with polystyrene cups want all your change and I met a bloody Kiwi in the MOMA, and in the trade Tower entrance there was a mural by Miro, and there was a shop in Greenwich stocked with a huge variety of condoms, and the Spanish or Spanish-Italian girls were excrutiatingly sexy, and so were other women, and there were cops with guns and cops on horses(!), and shoe shiners, and the Sbarros I loved, and you could get beer everywhere, and I was always drunk,and a woman about 28 was lying on the pavement crying across from the Empire State and I "cracked up" in the morning because I needed a chaser and had to be helped out of a retaurant and missed my breakfast (an omelette I still miss it) and Macey's is wonderfully old fashioned with a revolving door and if you see my "Cockroach Poems" you'll know that the city is "vertiginous" and a Cockroach consults with the editor of the New York Times. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Rumble" To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 7:03 PM Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar > It's in New York of course -- fucking New York -- every goddamned > interesting thing is in New York -- which is really, really far from North > Carolina................ > > G'night, > Ken > > (To all: I really love NYC and this bitterness just masks a deep and true > love for the place (seriously (I also love NC in part because it's just > like New York but different (seriously)))) > > > > At 08:38 PM 4/3/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Could you tell us what city this Zinc Bar is in? > > > >>> > >>> > >>> Sunday April 7th: > >>>EVE KLINE & STEPHANIE LATERZA > >>>winners of last month's come to the ZINC BAR & vote for a reader contest. > >>> appearing with: > >>>ETHAN FUGATE > >>>Editor of PomPom, Curator of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, MFA George > >>>Mason > >>>College, Hart Crane Scholar 2002. > >>> > >>>{due to the overwhelming success of our March, 'come vote for an April > >>>Reader' i have decided to to it again on the 7th} > >>> > >>> > >>> Sunday April 14th: > >>>Douglas Rothschild selects poems for BASEBALL Issue of Boog City: > >>>Readers may include: Marcella Durand, Carol Mirakove, Peacenik, Bill > >>>Luoma, & others--PLUS OPEN TRYOUTS--bring a baseball poem you like--Your > >>>own, someone > >>>elses--(3 min. or under) & READ IT. > >>> > >>> > >>> Thursday April 18th: > >>>GERALDINE MCKENZIE > >>>famous avant-guarde poet from Australia > >>>(as seen on the web in John Trantor's Jacket & How2 & in print in > >>>Tinfish) > >>> appearing with: > >>>GARY KEENAN > >>>(as seen in 'Writers from the New Coast' from O-blek) > >>> > >>> > >>> Sunday April 21th: > >>>MARK NOWAK > >>>Well known Ethnographer & Poet > >>> appearing with: > >>>ANNA MOSCHOVAKIS > >>>Talented poet & Agent provacature > >>> > >>> > >>> Thursday April 25th: > >>>JOE ELIOT : new york's greatest living poet & SPECIAL FRIEND > >>> > >>> > >>> Sunday April 28th: > >>>COMING SOON > >>> > >>> > >>>Readings start at 6:37 Zinc Bar is downstairs at 90 west houston--just > >>>off the corner of LaGuardia Place. Mostly it's sunday--unless it's > >>>thursday. > > > > > >-- > >George Bowering > >Turned against Shell Scott. > >Fax 604-266-9000 > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 23:57:17 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A poem by a friend, whose obsessed with Perec, and does palindromes and things. I dont know whether this is any good. See what people think. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Follari" To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:11 PM Subject: Dear Richard,a new poem > Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic > piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: > > > Psi Flight > > Swift in flight, > Light ships whiz in vivid pink light > Spinning high within simplistic prisms > Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits > Shining first with intrinsic timing > Glinting bright within its firing > Lightships tilt in blinding winds > Till twin ships spin in crisis > > in this psi-light > Six whistling ships inflict lightning > Whilst gliding in this swirling mist > Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright > Driving ships right with big wild swings > Till zinc linings twist tight > > In this psi-light > Twin minds think in signs > Printing insights in six kinds > Timing simplistic things with witchlight > > T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 > > let me know what you think. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:42:37 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "B.E. Basan" Subject: New BPS address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This came to my inbox from another list. Thought some people on the UB = list would be interested.=20 -Ben >>The Bureau of Public Secrets website has a new domain address: http://www.bopsecrets.org . If you have any links or bookmarks to it, please update them to point to the new URLs. You can do so by replacing the "slip.net/~knabb" portion of the old URLs with "bopsecrets.org". Or you can start fresh by clicking http://www.bopsecrets.org -- all the pages you click to from there (or from any other "bopsecrets" URL) will also be in the new "bopsecrets" form. Apologies for the inconvenience. * * * BUREAU OF PUBLIC SECRETS P.O. Box 1044, Berkeley CA 94701 http://www.bopsecrets.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:27:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Benjamin Friedlander & Chuck Stein @ DH/NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Benjamin Friedlander & Chuck Stein Reading at Double Happiness on Saturday, April 6 Segue Reading Series at Double Happiness 173 Mott Street (downstairs, just south of Broome), New York, NY (212) 941-1282 Doors open at 4pm Two-for-one happy hour(s) Suggested contribution, $4, goes to the readers. Benjamin Friedlander is the author of numerous, fabulous books of poetry, including A Knot Is Not a Tangle , Period Piece, and Time Rations . He has also edited a number of important collections, including, with Donald Allen, The Collected Prose of Charles Olson. Benjamin Friedlander's EPC homepage: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/friedlander Benjamin Friedlander interviewed by Nada Gordon: http://home.jps.net/~nada/ben2.htm Poems at the Boston Review: http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR23.3/poetrysampler.html The legendary Charles "Chuck" Stein is the author of Hat Rack Tree, Parts and Other Parts, Horse Sacrifice, and River Menace, all published by Station Hill Press. He also wrote Secret of The Black Chrysanthemum: The Poetic Cosmology of Charles Olson & His Use of the Writings of C.G Jung, also from Station Hill. He edited Being = Space x Action: Searches for Freedom of Mind in mathematics, Art and Mysticism, published as Io #41 by North Atlantic Books. Charles Stein's homepage: http://www.stationhill.org/artists/CS/cspage.html For more information about the series, go to: http://www.segue.org/calendar _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:44:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> Oh Poets, >> >>You must come here some poetry ! >> If poets won't bother to spell things properly, who will? or deliberately spell them rrrrrong, I don't care -- just not this LF unacknowledged legislator of not a damn thing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:17:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: juliana spahr Subject: myung mi kim author page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Call for work - The Electronic Poetry Center (EPC) of the State University of Buffalo's Poetics Program seeks original, critical articles for a new Author Page feature on Myung Mi Kim. Articles on any aspect of Kim's work, and involving any pertinent methodology, are welcomed. We do accept previously published articles and also welcome original, unpublished work with no claim to copyrights such that the contribution could not or should not appear elsewhere. Contributions should follow MLA guidelines for citation, should be no longer than 20 pages, and should be submitted via e-mail to the Kim Author Page editors in Microsoft Word or Word Perfect file format. Deadline for submissions is May 15th, 2002. NOTE: Potential contributors are strongly encouraged to view some of the existing EPC Author Pages (epc.buffalo.edu/authors/) to familiarize themselves with the scope and foci of past Author Pages. Editors: Patrick F. Durgin - pdurgin@acsu.buffalo.edu Juliana Spahr - spahr@hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:30:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: Fwd: International Poetry Meeting Comments: To: eliztj@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The International Poetry Meeting "Pourparlers de langues" to be held at the University of San Francisco and City Lights Booksellers and publishers, San Francisco, CA April 18th and 19th, 2002 with the participation of Bill Berkson Carolyn Burke Michel Deguy Gerhard Falkner, Pierre Joris, Bernard Noel Michael Palmer Lionel Ray Nathaniel Tarn. Please visit web site for full program and additional Information at: http://www.usfca.edu/modernlanguages/event.modlang.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:06:03 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: C.D. Wright and Prageeta Sharma read in Cambridge 2/6/02 Please come! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The JUBILAT/HARVARD ADVOCATE/BOSTON REVIEW reading series is pleased to feature PRAGEETA SHARMA and C.D. WRIGHT on Saturday, April 6th. The reading will take place from 4-6 PM at Sever 113, in Harvard Yard (Harvard Square T stop). For a map of the yard, please go to http://www.map.harvard.edu/level2/2Yard.shtml. PRAGEETA SHARMA received an M.F.A. at Brown University, where she was awarded the Academy of American Poets prize. She is the author of Bliss to Fill (Subpress and A'A' Arts). Her work has recently appeared in Agni, Explosive, Shiny, The Hat, and The Poetry Project Newsletter. She lives in Brooklyn. C.D. WRIGHT was born and raised in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas. She has published nine collections of poetry, most recently Deepstep Come Shining (Copper Canyon, 1998). Her next book, a collaboration with photographer Deborah Luster titled One Big Self: Prisoners of Louisiana, is forthcoming from the University of Texas Press. Her poems and essays have appeared in such journals as American Letters & Commentary, Arschile, BRICK, CONJUNCTIONS, and sulfur. She has received fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation, the National Endowment for the Arts, the Lila Wallace-Reader's Digest Foundation, and the Bunting Institute. Wright's awards include a Whiting Writers' Award, a Lannan Literary Award, and the 1992 Poetry Center Book Award. She teaches at Brown University. If you have questions, please contact me at rncasper@earthlink.net. Thank you, and hope to see you at the reading. Rob Casper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:28:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem In-Reply-To: <000a01c1dbcf$debb13c0$1e6e36d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >A poem by a friend, whose obsessed with Perec, and does palindromes and >things. I dont know whether this is any good. See what people think. >Richard. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tony Follari" >To: >Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:11 PM >Subject: Dear Richard,a new poem Interesting, but Christian Bok has done that whole book of them, eh? > >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: >> >> >> Psi Flight >> >> Swift in flight, >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits >> Shining first with intrinsic timing >> Glinting bright within its firing >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds >> Till twin ships spin in crisis >> >> in this psi-light >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright >> Driving ships right with big wild swings >> Till zinc linings twist tight >> >> In this psi-light >> Twin minds think in signs >> Printing insights in six kinds >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight >> >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 >> >> let me know what you think. >> >> _________________________________________________________________ > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > -- George Bowering Turned against Shell Scott. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:47:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: Fwd: editorial (QUID) Cambridge, UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > >QUID 9: AGAINST IMPERIALISM A PROLEGOMENA, -EX- ED. > > > >The publication of QUID 9 has been held up by several depressive pillars, >including the inside neap-angle of mental rack between the respective >pulls of (1) lunacy and (2) you are my sunshine. Limbs drifting apart, >the tongue sopping with unnoticed jingo-frisson, feet boinging along the >queue to the beam pipe. There was no public response to the Editorial of >QUID 8, now recommissioned by my book _Antifreeze_ as 'Ejector Vacua >Axle;' apparently Peter Blegvad may have wanted to leave the Church and not >sing his song about the boy whose father was a tree, after hearing me recite >it (the P.A. had by this point broken down) at a London benefit for MSF, >_Out of Bounds._ Perhaps in some distant repercussion this will count for >more than I can credit. But for now, in the universal highchair of the >"double vacuum" (so politely undermultiplied by Amiri Baraka way back in >1977: "No communist party, no national / leadership"), what do we do? >Suck or blow? No -wind- in the vacuum to piss against: try -that- again? >To be idiomatic within a vacuum is a shining thing; to be vacuous in a >plenary idiom is how we are now conscripted to do this, it's a kind of >gluttonous fasting, Jerome on a diet of roasted peanuts in manic >fast-forward, all chanting desperately and honestly and hatefully against >the new season's injustice, cantors with gobs blue-tacked to the hollering >brick wall. Is irony in -this- way -essentially- a kind of clausal >pile-up, or only -now-? Box after box. Vide Beckett: "It's vague, life >and death." As a matter of which the question trembles and flashes: >what's the pass-concept to get out of the ultra-left margin to which poetry >is categorically resigned? Is the concept: poetry's materiality as the last >blockade against the wholesale (rather than dialectical) complicity of >consciousness with imperialism? Is it: the valiant hermeneutic runaround >once again fobbed off with a mere aura, this time by Agamben, that art is >the unconcealing of humanity's essential rhythm on "the earth?" More about >the earth later. Perhaps the pass-concept is something to do with poetry >and -the body-. If the body is cognitive, if our habits and flinches are >metaphysical and themselves a kind of knowledge, what is it exactly that >we know? Or could know, if the body's unconscious were plumbed? ("The >gall bladder has mountains; cliffs of fall / Frightful, sheer, >no-man-fathomed. Hold them cheap / May who ne'er hung there.") Knowledge >within the vacuum has -vagueness- as its essential predicate. Has the >body, as now the fantastic vacuum is upsized, become -vaguer still-? >Since -September 11th- I've found that I'm able to come only >intermittently, not in the continuous Heraclitean flux of our former >estrangement. Animals sense these things. A lioness whelped. Horses >neigh. Ghosts shriek and squeal about the streets on CCTV. Is this a >prophecy? Libidinal -Entausserung- "as" family planning? Is my orgasm a >fluent euphemism for bullet-spray, cut out by pacifist balls? These and >other questions perplex the man in the street now firming up for the mass >traipse toward enlightenment in its most innovative phase. And of course >linguistic innovation is the reconnaissance it always has been, setting >the exam questions of the dream-world to come, scribbling out a brand new, >fully-hope-fitted aeon. But what -particularly- should poetry do, what >schedule of leap / bound? Is the ultra-left margin a kind of tugboat >jettisoned into outer space? The reintegration of high and low art >forms, the convalescence dreamt by Adorno, might be key. A return to the >-whole- of culture, no longer (dixit Debord) "the meaning of an >insufficiently meaningful world," but (qua Language Poetics) an >anti-meaning of / as an always already sufficiently unmeaningful >world-system. If our -leaders- can do this, then we should make damn sure >that poetry can keep up. Kofi Annan was canny enough about the everyday >to appear on Sesame Street: > >Annan stepped in when puppet character Elmo and his friends argued over >who would get to sing the alphabet song. In the end he persuaded them all >to join in. Afterwards he said it was "wonderful to reach out to young >people" and hoped that he showed children "the spirit of the UN, a spirit >of understanding, sharing and working together". He said some >politicians needed to be more like the characters in the show: "Elmo and >his friends will tell us, it's the way they are, they tell it straight." >"Keep it simple and it brings you back to earth. I think that is very >important, we all need that." >(BBC News, 7th Dec. 2001) > > >We do, we need it. The -return to earth- was suggested by another >mediator, Ron Silliman, when he stepped into the still-trembling polemic >vacuum to remind us that Bush might risk being -impeached- if he didn't >mobilize the U.S. military-cultural complex against terrorism; the "left," >as Silliman understands it, would only isolate itself by "continuing on some >mode of automatic pilot" to condemn military reaction, as if "traditional >left-right dispute" still had any relevance. A felicitous metaphor, but >does Silliman go -far enough-? Perhaps from his warnings we can take more >elaborate heed, and ask the question he implies more directly: was the >left -ever- anything but a mission of resentful mystifiers intent on >self-alienation from the popular voice of injured patriotism? What could >Lenin possibly have said, faced with the Hellenic spectacle of G.W. Bush, >a grown man, -almost beginning to weep- "when a reporter in the Oval >Office asked him about his feelings"? Revolutionary fervour is all good >and well; but these are bad and sick times in which the very timelessness of >humanity itself is at stake, its tears bouncing onto the faggot-heap of >barbaric hatred. Perhaps -this- is the exit-sign we've all been too >hotheaded to notice. Could it be that poetry must make a leap of good >faith, out of the cynic's layby, out of the nil-stinking privet of intense >dialectical consciousness, out of the fridge-magnet marginalia of the >ultra-left, and back gloriously into the infinite fold of what Silliman >reminds us is "the popular will?" How else can poetry keep up the >pretence to be democratic? Are we big enough to admit it, that we've >spent long enough groping in finical misery after a language of consummate >vivid resistance, and that all this time we've had our heads buried in the >sand like a bunch of Iraqis on the Basra Road? Are we big enough also to >take the lead in this return to earth from its natural origin, the big >country itself, the big culture amongst whose avant-garde Silliman is a >respected pioneer, the big-hearted U.S.A.? > >The critical segue is unique and throatcatching, thus: (1) when I was a >child I threw myself about with perpetual clarity and fixation. I am now >broken with myself indistinct and without poise. I don't know what >sincerity can mean. Tell me precisely how to be afraid of vulnerability: >I cannot have that fear, it has distorted itself away, it's now only >-invulnerability- that terrifies me. I don't know if this should make >sense. (2) I listened when I woke up today, my head hurting and my throat >dried out, to your copy of B-----' R------. The music was next to my >painting. How can we be freely honest when the whole prospect of >consequence per se is so gilded with incredibility. But, honestly, what >do you need to say? If we haven't yet communicated in our most total >speech, why is this? What are our reluctances? What are mine. I don't >know that I can say. Let's open ourselves to each other and demand the >breakdown of partial sincerity into its recuperable scraps. Make >something new and less obviously possible. Tell me about yourself >exactly. Does this sound histrionic. (3) I feel like a pitiful and >destroyed man lapsing now constantly rearward into the origin of my pain, >from which everything I now do is a receding dead-end. And barely careful >about this or interested in it. I need love so desperately, so stupidly >and impossibly. Without it my life is pure attendance, pure waiting for >the end of waiting only. Everything screws up and drops. I'm shaped >forever by that single need, it is the displaced core of all the quiet and >brilliance possible within me and now dissipated. (4) I sat last night in >a bar again drunk and talked gently with near strangers hoping for nothing >particular or eventual. Later became more stupid though did nothing. I >called your house at 3 in the morning for a second or two then hung up. >(5) I used to design animals and provide their statistics, I began with >some kind of enlarged boar. Made perfume by dropping rose petals into an >ice-cream tub full of water. Spiders trapped in compartmentalized >cardboard would die into a kind of fascinating deliquescence. I loved to >be alone then, but can't suffer it now. (6) Is my life something I can >reclaim even from inside the loss of that proposition, or is it fixed now >by the irrelevance of repair into mere continuity and balancing regret >against the refusal of stoical temperance. (7) Who are you. Tell me >exactly about yourself. This is never a challenge. Open yourself. That >must be how love batters away its counterfeit. From this the bound into >true, that is, anti-imperialist, fortitude is a leap alike to spark from >match to petroleum, the whole mouth blazing like the clouds' gentle >euphony in a sky ecstatic with raw sunlight. Instances of which can be >extruded piecemeal into the swelling clagnut of historical >counterconsciousness via -Prontaprint-, if sent to: > > >Keston Sutherland, Editor >QUID >Gonville & Caius College >Cambridge, CB2 1TA >England > >kms20@hermes.cam.ac.uk, www.barquepress.com > >Malcontents: > >John Wilkinson, 'September 11th' >Andrea Brady, 'Grief Work in a War Economy' >Pascal Boulanger, '( 11 September 2001' [trans. Jérôme Game] >Stuart Calton, [a poem] >Eric Suchère, 'N° 48 (septembre 2001), L'achèvement' [with a translation >by Jérôme Game] >Harry Gilonis, 'Three Misreadings of Horatian Odes' >Chris Emery, [three poems] >Sean Bonney, 'The Management Consultant Has Gone For Lunch' >Chris Goode, [a text] >Jérôme Game, 'this aggression will not stand, man' >Peter Middleton, 'And We Had Those Nightmares Where' >Hubert Lucot, 'Operations' [trans. Jérôme Game] >Ben Friedlander, 'After Psalm 137' >Marie-Angélique Bueler 'Bombs and Bangs' ><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard Senior Production Coordinator The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:50:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Don Cheney Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar In-Reply-To: <33DB6DF9C51BD511BC4B00D0B75B2D8101708702@esfpb03.dol.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed maybe the person left out the word "for". or maybe instead of "poetry" they meant "day". -don cheney unacknowledged midfielder for ac milan > >> Oh Poets, > >> > >>You must come here some poetry ! >> > > If poets won't bother to spell things properly, who will? > or deliberately spell them rrrrrong, I don't care -- just not this > > LF > unacknowledged legislator of not a damn thing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:01:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think the poem is quite lovely. So what if Christian Bok (whom I like a great deal) has done a whole book of them? Petrarch wrote some sonnets too, and then so did some other folks later on... On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, George Bowering wrote: > >A poem by a friend, whose obsessed with Perec, and does palindromes and > >things. I dont know whether this is any good. See what people think. > >Richard. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tony Follari" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:11 PM > >Subject: Dear Richard,a new poem > > Interesting, but Christian Bok has done that whole book of them, eh? > > > > >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic > >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: > >> > >> > >> Psi Flight > >> > >> Swift in flight, > >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light > >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms > >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits > >> Shining first with intrinsic timing > >> Glinting bright within its firing > >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds > >> Till twin ships spin in crisis > >> > >> in this psi-light > >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning > >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist > >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright > >> Driving ships right with big wild swings > >> Till zinc linings twist tight > >> > >> In this psi-light > >> Twin minds think in signs > >> Printing insights in six kinds > >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight > >> > >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 > >> > >> let me know what you think. > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > > > > > -- > George Bowering > Turned against Shell Scott. > Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 02:51:37 -0700 Reply-To: nblack@csindy.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Noel Black Organization: The Independent Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, irony really is dead! Don Cheney wrote: > maybe the person left out the word "for". or maybe instead of "poetry" they > meant "day". > > -don cheney > unacknowledged midfielder for ac milan > > > >> Oh Poets, > > >> > > >>You must come here some poetry ! >> > > > > If poets won't bother to spell things properly, who will? > > or deliberately spell them rrrrrong, I don't care -- just not this > > > > LF > > unacknowledged legislator of not a damn thing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:27:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii also John Yau in his new book (recommended) has a series at the end using one vowel per --- Steven Shoemaker wrote: > I think the poem is quite lovely. So what if > Christian Bok (whom I like a > great deal) has done a whole book of them? ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:01:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NY City George, thats where. Usually when the city isnt named, it's NYC. Sometines, though, it can be Cleveland, or even Oshkosh. But you can usually bet it's NYC. I guess they dont care whether you show up or not. I still love you. David -----Original Message----- From: George Bowering To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:35 PM Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar >>> Oh Poets, >>> >>>You must come here some poetry ! >>> >>>For National poetry month, we at Zinc Bar have decided to have some POETS >>>come >>>to the bar to read their poems ! >>>Here is the schedule: > >Could you tell us what city this Zinc Bar is in? > >>> >>> >>> Sunday April 7th: >>>EVE KLINE & STEPHANIE LATERZA >>>winners of last month's come to the ZINC BAR & vote for a reader contest. >>> appearing with: >>>ETHAN FUGATE >>>Editor of PomPom, Curator of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, MFA George >>>Mason >>>College, Hart Crane Scholar 2002. >>> >>>{due to the overwhelming success of our March, 'come vote for an April >>>Reader' i have decided to to it again on the 7th} >>> >>> >>> Sunday April 14th: >>>Douglas Rothschild selects poems for BASEBALL Issue of Boog City: >>>Readers may include: Marcella Durand, Carol Mirakove, Peacenik, Bill >>>Luoma, & others--PLUS OPEN TRYOUTS--bring a baseball poem you like--Your >>>own, someone >>>elses--(3 min. or under) & READ IT. >>> >>> >>> Thursday April 18th: >>>GERALDINE MCKENZIE >>>famous avant-guarde poet from Australia >>>(as seen on the web in John Trantor's Jacket & How2 & in print in >>>Tinfish) >>> appearing with: >>>GARY KEENAN >>>(as seen in 'Writers from the New Coast' from O-blek) >>> >>> >>> Sunday April 21th: >>>MARK NOWAK >>>Well known Ethnographer & Poet >>> appearing with: >>>ANNA MOSCHOVAKIS >>>Talented poet & Agent provacature >>> >>> >>> Thursday April 25th: >>>JOE ELIOT : new york's greatest living poet & SPECIAL FRIEND >>> >>> >>> Sunday April 28th: >>>COMING SOON >>> >>> >>>Readings start at 6:37 Zinc Bar is downstairs at 90 west houston--just >>>off the corner of LaGuardia Place. Mostly it's sunday--unless it's >>>thursday. > > >-- >George Bowering >Turned against Shell Scott. >Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:45:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: sadness of world askew MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = sadness of world askew we're thrown to a halt, run out, stop traffic. she's sitting there. all among the fairest; suffice if one voice of the cars and trucks slow around. any darkness, weather, i'd say that we, on mangrove roots, closeup: barnacles, limpets, mussels, mangroved say eternity, if animals still roamed free, if there were animals, oysters, worm tubings. i dream of land's end images, they claw at me, a god was here, so glorious in us, all among the fairest; message down in the water of the continent. down with bodies floating in the stream of stories. If you drown, it is data you drown; if you write, you're written. write and you drown; the cacti vines, looking grafted, even over, of the web of eternal life, a number of deaths, swallow-tailed kites high above turkey buzzards, cormorant perch suffice in my contrary red white black of twist. if you get death, there are countries full of them, the ink, your lungs of darkness and dark ink. creatur pink flux in hole to the foot. ... ... belief in atomic light ... ... mouthtime. i know i can count on you and i promise i will never let you down, heart shatter and your child her period, our country, its dark mouth. _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:36:23 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont know: my point to Tony is that (he's obsessed with numbers eg once in a conversation he postulated the the number 3 was the strongest) and searching for some transcendental thing to come through the word formations ... but I'm not sure: he spends ages on these things: the problem for me is as always: "Why are we(you/anyone) doing this?" Especially as otheres have done it: as a techncal exercise maybe: but there has to be for me some "deeper" rationale...and the thing about Perec is that he wrote only one book (witout the e) so he realised I'd say that that had been done) ... and each book he wrote had a different "angle" and so on...but I thought I'd pass it on: the guy is very well-meaning. I'm not interested in poetry taht is complex in the sense of these poems: its a bit like those quizes where you describe something but arent allowed to repeat a word: its abit like a Chess game or a mathematical puzzle or a complex crossword: fun but a bit meaningless. Art poetry etc I feel has to_ try_ to do something: even if it cant....something deeper has to under pin the work...but I dont know...Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:28 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem > >A poem by a friend, whose obsessed with Perec, and does palindromes and > >things. I dont know whether this is any good. See what people think. > >Richard. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tony Follari" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:11 PM > >Subject: Dear Richard,a new poem > > Interesting, but Christian Bok has done that whole book of them, eh? > > > > >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic > >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: > >> > >> > >> Psi Flight > >> > >> Swift in flight, > >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light > >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms > >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits > >> Shining first with intrinsic timing > >> Glinting bright within its firing > >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds > >> Till twin ships spin in crisis > >> > >> in this psi-light > >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning > >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist > >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright > >> Driving ships right with big wild swings > >> Till zinc linings twist tight > >> > >> In this psi-light > >> Twin minds think in signs > >> Printing insights in six kinds > >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight > >> > >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 > >> > >> let me know what you think. > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > > > > > -- > George Bowering > Turned against Shell Scott. > Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:42:06 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll rlay that to Tony: actualy I havent had trime to read it (closely): sometimes I "dig" Tony's poems and I feel he has ability but then I'm not so sure: there are certain writers over here am sure are quite brilliant eg Michael Arnold (New Zealand poet/teacher/philos grad).... (in fact reading Michael's work I sometimes feel that I'm reading a latter day Skaespeare (I mean in terms of ability) but sometimes I cant sort others: or maybe they are just diffferent. But thanks for your thought. Richard. PS I dont know Christain Blok... father forgive me.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Shoemaker" To: Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:01 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem > I think the poem is quite lovely. So what if Christian Bok (whom I like a > great deal) has done a whole book of them? Petrarch wrote some sonnets > too, and then so did some other folks later on... > > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, George Bowering wrote: > > > >A poem by a friend, whose obsessed with Perec, and does palindromes and > > >things. I dont know whether this is any good. See what people think. > > >Richard. > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Tony Follari" > > >To: > > >Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:11 PM > > >Subject: Dear Richard,a new poem > > > > Interesting, but Christian Bok has done that whole book of them, eh? > > > > > > > >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic > > >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: > > >> > > >> > > >> Psi Flight > > >> > > >> Swift in flight, > > >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light > > >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms > > >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits > > >> Shining first with intrinsic timing > > >> Glinting bright within its firing > > >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds > > >> Till twin ships spin in crisis > > >> > > >> in this psi-light > > >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning > > >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist > > >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright > > >> Driving ships right with big wild swings > > >> Till zinc linings twist tight > > >> > > >> In this psi-light > > >> Twin minds think in signs > > >> Printing insights in six kinds > > >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight > > >> > > >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 > > >> > > >> let me know what you think. > > >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > George Bowering > > Turned against Shell Scott. > > Fax 604-266-9000 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:16:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar In-Reply-To: <005c01c1dc3d$7ba967a0$4396ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >NY City George, thats where. Usually when the city isnt named, it's NYC. >Sometines, though, it can be Cleveland, or even Oshkosh. But you can usually >bet it's NYC. I guess they dont care whether you show up or not. I still >love you. David Thanks , David. But here is what I am going to do: when they dont mention what city the event is going to be in, I am going to assume Saskatoon. -- George Bowering Turned against Shell Scott. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:29:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem In-Reply-To: <002601c1dc6c$34d15fc0$786d36d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I dont know: my point to Tony is that (he's obsessed with numbers eg once in >a conversation he postulated the the number 3 was the strongest) and >searching for some transcendental thing to come through the word formations >... but I'm not sure: he spends ages on these things: the problem for me is >as always: "Why are we(you/anyone) doing this?" Especially as otheres have >done it: as a techncal exercise maybe: but there has to be for me some >"deeper" rationale...and the thing about Perec is that he wrote only one >book (witout the e) so he realised I'd say that that had been done) ... and >each book he wrote had a different "angle" and so on...but I thought I'd >pass it on: the guy is very well-meaning. I'm not interested in poetry taht >is complex in the sense of these poems: its a bit like those quizes where >you describe something but arent allowed to repeat a word: its abit like a >Chess game or a mathematical puzzle or a complex crossword: fun but a bit >meaningless. Art poetry etc I feel has to_ try_ to do something: even if it >cant....something deeper has to under pin the work...but I dont >know...Richard. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "George Bowering" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:28 AM >Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem I have long been a big fan of OuLiPo and am proud to be in the Oulipo compendium, so I am no enemy of this kind of practice. I dfid find the piece interesting. Yr remarks on numbers are interesting, as half the Oulipo people are mathematicians. You did know that Perec created puzzles for daily papers and these are collected in a couple volumes? > >> >A poem by a friend, whose obsessed with Perec, and does palindromes and >> >things. I dont know whether this is any good. See what people think. >> >Richard. >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Tony Follari" >> >To: >> >Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:11 PM >> >Subject: Dear Richard,a new poem >> >> Interesting, but Christian Bok has done that whole book of them, eh? >> >> > >> >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic >> >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: >> >> >> >> >> >> Psi Flight >> >> >> >> Swift in flight, >> >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light >> >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms >> >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits >> >> Shining first with intrinsic timing >> >> Glinting bright within its firing >> >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds >> >> Till twin ships spin in crisis >> >> >> >> in this psi-light >> >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning >> >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist >> >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright >> >> Driving ships right with big wild swings >> >> Till zinc linings twist tight >> >> >> >> In this psi-light >> >> Twin minds think in signs >> >> Printing insights in six kinds >> >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight > > >> > > >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 > > >> > > >> let me know what you think. > > >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com >> > > >> > > >> >> >> -- >> George Bowering >> Turned against Shell Scott. >> Fax 604-266-9000 >> -- George Bowering Turned against Shell Scott. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:43:17 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My brother was a great puzzle man and good at Maths (he's an Industrial Chemist in Townsville Aussie): he once solved solitaire and wrote out a formula for it and so on...but I learnt to play Chess (actually he was naturally better at Chess as well but took up soccer and boozing!) quite well but Chess requires a different knd of ability (a lot of it is learning and practicing what are known as tactical combinations in one's mind: and there is also strategical principles and planning (very hard, endgames, and learning openings (most imortant for very high level players)) but I'm not into that sort of thing else (I mean puzzles) - but I'd be keen to see (I have some in one of my books of Perec's puzzles)...Perec fascinates me...I like looking at his photograph on the book: I like very much the books I have recently by Perec and am enjoying reading him when I can: I like the sort of thing he does and also Robbett-Grillet is a favourite: in fact Grillet and Beckett are two big influences on me: I also feel there's probably a link to Raymond Rousell's writings (I mean to Perec and maybe others): I've read "Locus Solus" and "Impressions D"Afrique" (in English).... but I love Grillett. Some poems I wrote were based on it. I'll let Tony know that some interest was created by what he is doing. Another New Zealand poet, Richard von Sturmer, is very interested in the Oulipo Group ( he visits the US about 6 months a year to go to a Zen Buddhist retreat I believe).... I like the idea of them: I am a bit dubious though of ideas such that 3 is a strong number but of course that kind of thinking is iteresting: trouble with Tony is that he "wanders" in his thoughts: but maybe if he was given a contact with the the Oulipo and a project he would be very pleased...(he's fascinated by the mystery of things I think and a bit tormented - his brother committed suicide and was a strange but possibly brilliant artist) - but he can be quite cheerful and is a good-hearted (youngish man) who has earnt money mainly through House painting: but he also paints, does comedy books, and writes poems (some of which despite my objections - that they are not "underpinned or whatever...) acquire a strange beauty. Some arent so good: I'll send anything else on that's a bit more substantial. Thanks George and others, Richard. PS I'd probably use the puzzles and transform them into some kind of poem-puzzle! ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem > >I dont know: my point to Tony is that (he's obsessed with numbers eg once in > >a conversation he postulated the the number 3 was the strongest) and > >searching for some transcendental thing to come through the word formations > >... but I'm not sure: he spends ages on these things: the problem for me is > >as always: "Why are we(you/anyone) doing this?" Especially as otheres have > >done it: as a techncal exercise maybe: but there has to be for me some > >"deeper" rationale...and the thing about Perec is that he wrote only one > >book (witout the e) so he realised I'd say that that had been done) ... and > >each book he wrote had a different "angle" and so on...but I thought I'd > >pass it on: the guy is very well-meaning. I'm not interested in poetry taht > >is complex in the sense of these poems: its a bit like those quizes where > >you describe something but arent allowed to repeat a word: its abit like a > >Chess game or a mathematical puzzle or a complex crossword: fun but a bit > >meaningless. Art poetry etc I feel has to_ try_ to do something: even if it > >cant....something deeper has to under pin the work...but I dont > >know...Richard. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "George Bowering" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:28 AM > >Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem > > I have long been a big fan of OuLiPo and am proud to be in the Oulipo > compendium, so I am no enemy of this kind of practice. I dfid find > the piece interesting. Yr remarks on numbers are interesting, as half > the Oulipo people are mathematicians. You did know that Perec created > puzzles for daily papers and these are collected in a couple volumes? > > > > >> >A poem by a friend, whose obsessed with Perec, and does palindromes and > >> >things. I dont know whether this is any good. See what people think. > >> >Richard. > >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >From: "Tony Follari" > >> >To: > >> >Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:11 PM > >> >Subject: Dear Richard,a new poem > >> > >> Interesting, but Christian Bok has done that whole book of them, eh? > >> > >> > > >> >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic > >> >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Psi Flight > >> >> > >> >> Swift in flight, > >> >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light > >> >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms > >> >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits > >> >> Shining first with intrinsic timing > >> >> Glinting bright within its firing > >> >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds > >> >> Till twin ships spin in crisis > >> >> > >> >> in this psi-light > >> >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning > >> >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist > >> >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright > >> >> Driving ships right with big wild swings > >> >> Till zinc linings twist tight > >> >> > >> >> In this psi-light > >> >> Twin minds think in signs > >> >> Printing insights in six kinds > >> >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight > > > >> > > > >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 > > > >> > > > >> let me know what you think. > > > >> > > > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> George Bowering > >> Turned against Shell Scott. > >> Fax 604-266-9000 > >> > > > -- > George Bowering > Turned against Shell Scott. > Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:51:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It strikes me here that, while only "i" is used, there are at least two distinct vowel sounds. Can anyone post a poem of approximately the same length that uses only one vowel sound? Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic { >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: { >> { >> { >> Psi Flight { >> { >> Swift in flight, { >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light { >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms { >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits { >> Shining first with intrinsic timing { >> Glinting bright within its firing { >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds { >> Till twin ships spin in crisis { >> { >> in this psi-light { >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning { >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist { >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright { >> Driving ships right with big wild swings { >> Till zinc linings twist tight { >> { >> In this psi-light { >> Twin minds think in signs { >> Printing insights in six kinds { >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight { >> { >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:46:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Oulipuddlian matters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Oulipo is having an influence beyond literature. My sons came home from their fourth grade math class talking about Oulipo, where the use of "constrained writing forms" is being used to show how mathematics can apply to the "real" world. Ron ---------------------- I dont know: my point to Tony is that (he's obsessed with numbers eg once in a conversation he postulated the the number 3 was the strongest) and searching for some transcendental thing to come through the word formations ... but I'm not sure: he spends ages on these things: the problem for me is as always: "Why are we(you/anyone) doing this?" Especially as otheres have done it: as a techncal exercise maybe: but there has to be for me some "deeper" rationale...and the thing about Perec is that he wrote only one book (witout the e) so he realised I'd say that that had been done) ... and each book he wrote had a different "angle" and so on...but I thought I'd pass it on: the guy is very well-meaning. I'm not interested in poetry taht is complex in the sense of these poems: its a bit like those quizes where you describe something but arent allowed to repeat a word: its abit like a Chess game or a mathematical puzzle or a complex crossword: fun but a bit meaningless. Art poetry etc I feel has to_ try_ to do something: even if it cant....something deeper has to under pin the work...but I dont know...Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:28 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem I have long been a big fan of OuLiPo and am proud to be in the Oulipo compendium, so I am no enemy of this kind of practice. I dfid find the piece interesting. Yr remarks on numbers are interesting, as half the Oulipo people are mathematicians. You did know that Perec created puzzles for daily papers and these are collected in a couple volumes? >A poem by a friend, whose obsessed with Perec, and does palindromes and >things. I dont know whether this is any good. See what people think. >Richard. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tony Follari" >To: >Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:11 PM >Subject: Dear Richard,a new poem Interesting, but Christian Bok has done that whole book of them, eh? > >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: >> >> >> Psi Flight >> >> Swift in flight, >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits >> Shining first with intrinsic timing >> Glinting bright within its firing >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds >> Till twin ships spin in crisis >> >> in this psi-light >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright >> Driving ships right with big wild swings >> Till zinc linings twist tight >> >> In this psi-light >> Twin minds think in signs >> Printing insights in six kinds >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight > >> > >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 > >> > >> let me know what you think. > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > -- George Bowering Turned against Shell Scott. Fax 604-266-9000 -- George Bowering Turned against Shell Scott. Fax 604-266-9000 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 06:59:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: Oulipuddlian matters In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The real question here is where does your son go to school and how can I send my eventual children there? That's so wonderful! If only math had been taught that way to me when I was in fourth grade--I might have actually stayed interested. Arielle --- Ron Silliman wrote: > Oulipo is having an influence beyond literature. My > sons came home from > their fourth grade math class talking about Oulipo, > where the use of > "constrained writing forms" is being used to show > how mathematics can apply > to the "real" world. > > Ron __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:54:20 -0500 Reply-To: WHITEBOX@EARTHLINK.NET Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: WHITE BOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: WHITE BOX Subject: The Cake Shops on the Nevsky... at WHITE BOX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WHITE BOX presents...TEXTUAL OPERATIONS ^Å a series of reading organized by A.S. Bessa WEDNESDAY 10 APRIL - 8PM ___________________________________________________ Marjorie Perloff The Cake Shops on the Nevsky: Ezra Pound as Nominalist For several years Marjorie Perloff has been one of the most engaged critics of the avant-garde either through her incisive study of Italian Futurism or championing new poetry in America and elsewhere. In "The Cake Shops on the Nevsky: Ezra Pound as Nominalist." Perloff proposes a fresh look at Pound's highly idiosyncratic use of proper names, especially in the Pisan Cantos, arguing that Poundian aesthetic is not, as is so often claimed, Confucian or NeoPlatonic but inherently Nominalist; it is concerned less with large truths than with the discrimination of difference. Along the way, Perloff will show the relationship of Pound's nominalism to that of his exact contemporary and acquaintance, Marcel Duchamp. ___________________________________________________ WHITE BOX 525 West 26th Street New York, NY 10001 tel 212.714.2347 / www.whiteboxny.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:06:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Aggregiously late, but FYI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Wine and Dine in Time or an introduction to Miss Stein's Most Mysterious Business in Baltimore: A Wedding, will be performed as part of the closing evening of the conference, The Poetry of Plays, April 5-6, 2002, Barnard College, April 6, 2002, 7:30 p.m. - 10:00 p.m., Held Auditorium, 304 Barnard Hall, Barnard College, New York City, which includes short plays by Leslie Scalapino, Tracie Morris, Jena Osman, and Lee Ann Brown. Wine and Dine in Time, in which Emma despairs of her job, Fitch molds his future, Augustine tempers himself, and all repair to Baltimore., will be performed c. 9:00 p.m. Written and adapted by Susan Wheeler, and with the excellent cast of: Danielle Pafunda as St. Augustine, Lily Saint as Emma Bovary, Mark Bibbins as Fitch, Robert Morris as Miss Stein, and Anju Andre-Bergmann and Amelia Whitney as cheerleaders. $10 at the door or free with any student ID. For further information: 212-854-2721. Overheard this morning on NPR re Tony Blair's visit to George Bush's ranch: "The weekend was originally planned as a relaxed weekend with friends to discuss the battle on terror; now the topic will be the crisis in the middle east." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII One of the reasons I like the poem is because of the (well-handled) sci fi element. I like sci fi and I like poetry, but these are usually two separate enthusiasms. Anyone know of other places/poems where they come together sucessfully? I've often thought I might write something about George Oppen's use of the Robert Heinlein epigraph for This In Which. The Heinlein book (The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag) is quite interesting... Steve On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Halvard Johnson wrote: > It strikes me here that, while only "i" is used, there are at least > two distinct vowel sounds. Can anyone post a poem of approximately > the same length that uses only one vowel sound? > > Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > { >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic > { >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: > { >> > { >> > { >> Psi Flight > { >> > { >> Swift in flight, > { >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light > { >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms > { >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits > { >> Shining first with intrinsic timing > { >> Glinting bright within its firing > { >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds > { >> Till twin ships spin in crisis > { >> > { >> in this psi-light > { >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning > { >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist > { >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright > { >> Driving ships right with big wild swings > { >> Till zinc linings twist tight > { >> > { >> In this psi-light > { >> Twin minds think in signs > { >> Printing insights in six kinds > { >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight > { >> > { >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:44:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Oprah closes the book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am crushed by this news...I do hope she's not dropping the form because the form is hopeless, yielding nothing. Surely, she must still desire to engage in dispossessing writers of the means of production and transmission, making them make their point in short segments, by all manner of tricks and subterfuges, as witnessed by her distillations of Tony M.'s books over these last, many years! I am at least consoled to hear that she will not totally abandon her wondrously polished dumbing-down technique...at least on occasion consenting to flog a book or two. In the meantime...what are we to do? Awaiting the next gatekeeper, Gerald Schwartz ** Oprah Winfrey to end book club ** In a significant blow to the book-publishing business, Oprah Winfrey is ending her talk shows monthly book club. http://www.msnbc.com/modules/exports/ct_email.asp?/news/734696.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 16:13:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: Oulipuddlian matters Comments: cc: ariellecg@YAHOO.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It's a public school in the Tredyffrin/Easttown school district in the western suburbs of Philadelphia. Ron ------------------- The real question here is where does your son go to school and how can I send my eventual children there? That's so wonderful! If only math had been taught that way to me when I was in fourth grade--I might have actually stayed interested. Arielle --- Ron Silliman wrote: >Oulipo is having an influence beyond literature. My >sons came home from >their fourth grade math class talking about Oulipo, >where the use of >"constrained writing forms" is being used to show >how mathematics can apply >to the "real" world. > >Ron __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:35:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cadaly Subject: Re: Oulipuddlian matters MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT actually -- and while taking a look at the pedogogy surrounding the fibonacci sequence, mind you -- there's a pretty long history of using poetry as a demo in math, so I've found a lot of math limericks, mathematical formulas that when "read" rhyme, remember the Bart Simpson gifted school math joke?, and poem (rather than story) problems Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:58:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Palma Subject: The Big Picture at Beyond Baroque - April 7th - Sunday at 2 PM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just a Reminder - The Big Picture at Beyond Baroque Literary Arts Center (Venice, CA) - April 7th - Sunday at 2 PM The printable PDF Big Picture Packet with parking and release form and logistics is now up at: http://beyondbaroque.org/bigpicture/index.html We have about 300 poets RSVPd now!!! If you are a poet that has a chapbook or some published material, I hope you can come to this! We are trying to have a professional group photo taken of SoCal poets. It will also be a drive for collecting work for the Beyond Baroque Archive, and it will be a pot luck! and it will also be an art opening -- all wraped into one fun afternoon! If you are a member of this community, we would love to have your participation :-) Please help get the word out! See ya there! :-) Christine Palma ***** Here is the official press release: January 25th, 2002 For Immediate Release Contact Info: Amelie Frank (866) 510-6561 x5320 (voice mail) (818) 780-1912 (fax) poetamelie@onebox.com http://www.beyondbaroque.org/bigpicture/index.html WHAT: Beyond Baroque Hosts THE BIG PICTURE: A Convocation Of Southern California Poets WHEN: Sunday, April 7th, 2002 at 2:00 p.m. WHERE: BEYOND BAROQUE LITERARY ARTS CENTER 681 Venice Blvd., Venice, CA (310) 822-3006 ADMISSION: Free of charge! On Sunday, April 7th, 2002, at 3:00 p.m., Beyond Baroque will host The Big Picture, a convocation of published Southern California poets to be photographed for National Poetry Month. Southern California is a region of diverse populations, each with a unique voice. For this event, we are bringing all these voices together--the voices of our literary poets, our performance poets, our beat poets, avant-garde poets, academic poets, hip-hop poets, environmental poets, political poets, cowboy poets, and others. Often regions are not aware of their cultural heritage. This is our change to preserve these poets for posterity. The event will take place at Beyond Barque, the non-profit foundation that is the literary heart of Los Angeles. Founded in 1968 in a storefront in Venice, the center has been the site of readings from such literary giants and local icons as Allen Ginsberg, Philip Levine, David St. John, Kate Braverman, Lewis MacAdams, Bob Flanagan, Charles Bukowski, Wanda Coleman, Dennis Cooper, and many more. Many of SoCal's most beloved poets have been alumnae of Beyond Baroque's longstanding workshops. The event is being documented by Mark Savage, who is completed a five-year project individually photographing the poets of Los Angeles. Called one of the "finest up-and-coming portrait photographers in North America" by American Photography, Savage's work has appeared in the Los Angeles Times, MONEY, Fortune, and other publications. After the group photo, all poets will be invited to visit his project, "Souls and Passions," on display at the Beyond Baroque gallery. In addition, participating poets will be donating copies of their publications to the Beyond Baroque Archive, the largest independent collection of Southern California poetry and ephemera on the West Coast. ____________________________________ Christine Palma "Echo in the Sense" - Poetry, Prose, Performance - Cultural and Public Affairs Programming KXLU Los Angeles - 88.9 FM Saturday Evenings from 8 to 9 PM E-mail: Christine@DROMO.com Tel: (714) 979-3414 "Take a step into the sublime. . ." - - - - To unsubscribe from LA Culture Net, send an email to: laculturenet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com To subscribe from LA Culture Net, send an email to: laculturenet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ____________________________________ Christine Palma "Echo in the Sense" - Poetry, Prose, Performance - Cultural and Public Affairs Programming KXLU Los Angeles - 88.9 FM Saturday Evenings from 8 to 9 PM E-mail: Christine@DROMO.com Tel: (714) 979-3414 "Take a step into the sublime. . ." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:26:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis Warsh Subject: Ted's Favorite Skirt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" New from SPUYTEN DUYVIL TED'S FAVORITE SKIRT a novel by Lewis Warsh $14.00 ISBN 1-881471-78-0 "The heroine is a hoops-shooting Madame Bovary-reading American kid trying to figure it all out. As we follow Billie in and out of love, limning with her the edges of despair and hope, Warsh leads us deep into the 'hum of human machinery', a territory where all but essentials are weeded out. Part bildungsroman, part commentary on American life in the 80s, Ted's Favorite Skirt is a trenchant, lovely wonder." Laird Hunt "Lewis Warsh writes from a true and complex idea of experience, and does so in the certainty that we know what life is about. Ted's Favorite Skirt, remarkable for its steady luminosity and insight, reveals the mystery--though not its solution--of how someone's presence can weave itself into the fabric of our desire and remain there, long after the time shared with that person has passed, and thus become part of our fate." Chuch Wachtel Spuyten Duyvil PO Box 1852 Cathedral Station NYC 10025 http://spuytenduyvil.net 1-800-886-5304 Sputen Duyvil books are distributed to the trade through Biblio Distribution, 1-800-462-6420 www.bibliodistribution.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:02:58 -0500 Reply-To: casslewis@excite.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "casslewis@excite.com" Subject: Re: My new book, 'Winter District' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, A bit of self-promotion from me... just thought I'd let you know my new book 'Winter District' is out now from Potes & Poets Press (US). The isbn is 1-893541-46-0 And the price is US $8.00 You can order it through Small Press Distribution online, at this URL: http://www.spdbooks.org/ (Just search for 'Winter District' and you'll find the ordering page) Big thanks to Potes & Poets. Best, Cassie Lewis ------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:01:04 -0500 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Anthology Plug Comments: cc: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy Ernst, Scott Helmes, possibly Marilyn Rosenberg and I will be at Books are Books (265 Aragon Avenue, Coral Gables, Florida), which scuttlebutt says is the best bookstore in the Miami area. Marvin Sackner will also be there as well as Miami visual poet, Carlos Luis. It's a book launch and reading for WRITING TO BE SEEN, volume one, 328 11" by 8.5" pages, $24, the first full-scale visio-textual art anthology in the US in a quarter of a century. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn have work in it, I co-edited it. Other poets with work in it are Guy R. Beining, David Cole, William L. Fox, Bill Keith, Karl Kempton, Joel Lipman, Harry Polkinhorn, Carol Stetser and Karl Young. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn will also be participating in a similar event at Printed Matter 535 West 22nd St. New York, NY 10011 5-7 PM Saturday, May 4th, 2002 --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:10:31 -0500 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Anthology Plug--with Time & Date! Comments: cc: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy Ernst, Scott Helmes, possibly Marilyn Rosenberg and I will be at Books are Books (265 Aragon Avenue, Coral Gables, Florida), which scuttlebutt says is the best bookstore in the Miami area, at 8 P.M., Friday, 12 April 2002. Marvin Sackner will also be there as well as Miami visual poet, Carlos Luis. It's a book launch and reading for WRITING TO BE SEEN, volume one, 328 11" by 8.5" pages, $24, the first full-scale visio-textual art anthology in the US in a quarter of a century. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn have work in it, I co-edited it. Other poets with work in it are Guy R. Beining, David Cole, William L. Fox, Bill Keith, Karl Kempton, Joel Lipman, Harry Polkinhorn, Carol Stetser and Karl Young. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn will also be participating in a similar event at Printed Matter 535 West 22nd St. New York, NY 10011 5-7 PM Saturday, May 4th, 2002 --Bob G. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:27:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George: why stop at Saskatoon? Press on in a NWly direction until you reach Biggar, Sask. That dot on the grid used to have a sign at its entrance, "New York is big, but this is Biggar." I might write a treatise on Canadian Humor and The Vain Boast. But I'm afraid you would say it was too long. x, David -----Original Message----- From: George Bowering To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:13 AM Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar >>NY City George, thats where. Usually when the city isnt named, it's NYC. >>Sometines, though, it can be Cleveland, or even Oshkosh. But you can usually >>bet it's NYC. I guess they dont care whether you show up or not. I still >>love you. David > >Thanks , David. > >But here is what I am going to do: when they dont mention what city >the event is going to be in, I am going to assume Saskatoon. >-- >George Bowering >Turned against Shell Scott. >Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:24:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: new publication Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed New from Pavement Saw Press... C o s m o p o l i t a n T r e m b l e p o e m s b y M a r k D u C h a r m e 80 pages 8 by 9 format ISBN: 1-886350-96-5 paper $12 ISBN: 1-886350-97-3 hardcover limited edition $60 Cover Art: Jane Dalrymple-Hollo Order from Small Press Distribution http://www.spdbooks.org Or from Pavement Saw Press P.O. Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm Behold the multitude of forms that dance through the streets of this cosmopolis! Free agent Mark DuCharme is the architect of an awesome city of words sometimes tender, sometimes tough, always wonderful to wander through. --Lisa Jarnot Mark DuCharme's poems in COSMOPOLITAN TREMBLE say astonishing things. That is the "business" of poems: to say astonishing things. Some poems say astonishing things once in a while, some with greater frequency, some hardly ever. Of course, it all depends on what the reader may or may not find astonishing. Some readers may be more easily astonished than some others. Personally, I don't think I am all that easily astonished. To get back to the subject of this note, I find that Mark DuCharme's poems say astonishing things practically ALL THE TIME ! By that I mean that they really keep me awake. From the expansive vistas of the title sequence, on through the more jagged and mysterious ones of and the cinema noir of , to the coda of , Mark DuCharme takes us on a Long March, a Wild Trip, a Civilized Orgy of Cognitive Dissonance, whatever that means, well it means these poems are great serious fun to read and reread, and I urge you to do so. --Anselm Hollo The domestic is a crash test in Mark DuCharme's party-of-the-first-part telling. He outs "Genders of the obvious" and gets into "Gestures capped in answerable wool." The "desire" in this series is warier than that of, say, Barthes, where it is "taxidermy" which is "lovely" and where "The heart being nothing/ Agitates slightly." --Michael Gizzi Zip and sharp wit drive this new collection of Mark DuCharme's. It's a brainy engagement with the real world expanded by the forces of language--"In weather's pearlish mystery," "In purer emblems of a tumbling incitement," "In the genre of kissing or falling down," DuCharme finds a world full of acute emotion and vivid experience, and recounts it with a freshness you can almost hear aloud. --Cole Swensen _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:07:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: road runner Subject: Re: The Big Picture at Beyond Baroque - April 7th - Sunday at 2 PM In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Standard Schaefer here. I'm a local poet, published and so forth and I would like to RSPV for the picture. Is this sufficient or should I phone it in? Best, SS -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Christine Palma Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 1:58 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: The Big Picture at Beyond Baroque - April 7th - Sunday at 2 PM Just a Reminder - The Big Picture at Beyond Baroque Literary Arts Center (Venice, CA) - April 7th - Sunday at 2 PM The printable PDF Big Picture Packet with parking and release form and logistics is now up at: http://beyondbaroque.org/bigpicture/index.html We have about 300 poets RSVPd now!!! If you are a poet that has a chapbook or some published material, I hope you can come to this! We are trying to have a professional group photo taken of SoCal poets. It will also be a drive for collecting work for the Beyond Baroque Archive, and it will be a pot luck! and it will also be an art opening -- all wraped into one fun afternoon! If you are a member of this community, we would love to have your participation :-) Please help get the word out! See ya there! :-) Christine Palma ***** Here is the official press release: January 25th, 2002 For Immediate Release Contact Info: Amelie Frank (866) 510-6561 x5320 (voice mail) (818) 780-1912 (fax) poetamelie@onebox.com http://www.beyondbaroque.org/bigpicture/index.html WHAT: Beyond Baroque Hosts THE BIG PICTURE: A Convocation Of Southern California Poets WHEN: Sunday, April 7th, 2002 at 2:00 p.m. WHERE: BEYOND BAROQUE LITERARY ARTS CENTER 681 Venice Blvd., Venice, CA (310) 822-3006 ADMISSION: Free of charge! On Sunday, April 7th, 2002, at 3:00 p.m., Beyond Baroque will host The Big Picture, a convocation of published Southern California poets to be photographed for National Poetry Month. Southern California is a region of diverse populations, each with a unique voice. For this event, we are bringing all these voices together--the voices of our literary poets, our performance poets, our beat poets, avant-garde poets, academic poets, hip-hop poets, environmental poets, political poets, cowboy poets, and others. Often regions are not aware of their cultural heritage. This is our change to preserve these poets for posterity. The event will take place at Beyond Barque, the non-profit foundation that is the literary heart of Los Angeles. Founded in 1968 in a storefront in Venice, the center has been the site of readings from such literary giants and local icons as Allen Ginsberg, Philip Levine, David St. John, Kate Braverman, Lewis MacAdams, Bob Flanagan, Charles Bukowski, Wanda Coleman, Dennis Cooper, and many more. Many of SoCal's most beloved poets have been alumnae of Beyond Baroque's longstanding workshops. The event is being documented by Mark Savage, who is completed a five-year project individually photographing the poets of Los Angeles. Called one of the "finest up-and-coming portrait photographers in North America" by American Photography, Savage's work has appeared in the Los Angeles Times, MONEY, Fortune, and other publications. After the group photo, all poets will be invited to visit his project, "Souls and Passions," on display at the Beyond Baroque gallery. In addition, participating poets will be donating copies of their publications to the Beyond Baroque Archive, the largest independent collection of Southern California poetry and ephemera on the West Coast. ____________________________________ Christine Palma "Echo in the Sense" - Poetry, Prose, Performance - Cultural and Public Affairs Programming KXLU Los Angeles - 88.9 FM Saturday Evenings from 8 to 9 PM E-mail: Christine@DROMO.com Tel: (714) 979-3414 "Take a step into the sublime. . ." - - - - To unsubscribe from LA Culture Net, send an email to: laculturenet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com To subscribe from LA Culture Net, send an email to: laculturenet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ____________________________________ Christine Palma "Echo in the Sense" - Poetry, Prose, Performance - Cultural and Public Affairs Programming KXLU Los Angeles - 88.9 FM Saturday Evenings from 8 to 9 PM E-mail: Christine@DROMO.com Tel: (714) 979-3414 "Take a step into the sublime. . ." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:09:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Scroggins Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar In-Reply-To: <003e01c1dd12$a5f60c40$6596ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Actually, an old joke--not Canadian, but Scottish humor; Biggar, Scotland (where Hugh MacDiarmid spent many of his last days) has as motto "London is big, but Biggar is Biggar" >George: why stop at Saskatoon? Press on in a NWly direction until you reach >Biggar, Sask. That dot on the grid used to have a sign at its entrance, >"New York is big, but this is Biggar." I might write a treatise on Canadian >Humor and The Vain Boast. But I'm afraid you would say it was too long. x, >David >-----Original Message----- >From: George Bowering >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:13 AM >Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar > > >>>NY City George, thats where. Usually when the city isnt named, it's NYC. >>>Sometines, though, it can be Cleveland, or even Oshkosh. But you can >usually >>>bet it's NYC. I guess they dont care whether you show up or not. I still >>>love you. David >> >>Thanks , David. >> >>But here is what I am going to do: when they dont mention what city >>the event is going to be in, I am going to assume Saskatoon. >>-- >>George Bowering >>Turned against Shell Scott. >>Fax 604-266-9000 >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:31:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pete Balestrieri Subject: Index as a Form: George and Murat are correct MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Many thanks to all who responded to my index query. To clarify, George and Murat are correct: I was asking about examples of poems/writing that have an index as their form, not works that have an index. I was specifically thinking of an index to an imaginary book or a found index without pagination. Nevertheless, I am grateful to all who answered. Pete __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 02:25:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: for Jochen Gerz' project: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - future interior In the context of contemporary art, what is your vision of a yet unknown art? The context is ruined 1969-2002 at the Centre Pompidou in Paris, all text and imageail". Keeping 0 messages and removing 2.]vasionMills (Philadel:NO COST OUT of POCKET!!!6383.html::ground out. but what will occur, medium matterless, what will occur, top-down, not bottom up. for every medium matterless, medium unmattering. no, what i mean: evanescent media. speech will suffice for cinema, cinematic production. to construct a landscape, characters. placing the script within. script becomes interior. of the same for interactivity. you might use a floor plan, you might think it through, you might explore yourself. through speech or theramin movement. so that micro-management becomes buried process/procedure, nothing else. : your vision of a yet unknown art? Your scatter-mines are guilty. I What damage have you done to your ... prostitute stabs me across your scatter-mines! ... naked-woman is but what will occur moving through this soup accessible only [ Wrote 42 lines ]ge 28 marked for deletion].hive_-request@lm with infinite bandwidth? I'm serious. on wet flesh, it's naked-woman?5 -0800anaging the list atSomething re: Sim From: k8% pico a/laptopg Are you satisfied with your 1969-2002 at the Centre Pompidou in Paris, all texteading file ]discussion group <@BUFFALO. ^G Get Help ^O Wr and imageail". Keeping 0 messages and removing 2.]vasionMills (Philadel?TSERVE.BUFFALO How would your terrorize your murder crushed-glass? , 1969-2002 at the Centre Pompidou in Paris, all text and imageail". Keeping 0 messages and removing 2.]vasionMills (Philadel is sufficient for me The symptoms of your most violent war: one by one, each on a line alone, typing Control-d when done. ground out. but what will occur, medium matterless, what will occur, top-down, n ot bottom up. for every medium matterless, medium unmattering. no, what i mean: evanescent media. speech will suffice for cinema, cinematic production. to const ruct a landscape, characters. placing the script within. script becomes interior . of the same for interactivity. you might use a floor plan, you might think it through, you might explore yourself. through speech or theramin movement. so tha t micro-management becomes buried process/procedure, nothing else. but what will occur moving through this soup accessible only with infinite bandw idth? I'm serious. noise / chaotic debris ranging against the your vision of a yet unknown art? ectoplasmic predictions / virtual holography predictions / guerilla hacker predictions / ruins predictions / body-brain embedding predictions / uselessness predictions / ornamentation predictions / supplement predictions / I mean I can't speak: op amp negative feedback towards coherent signature turbulent stases of strange attractors @go jump-cut problematic continuous if then else formalism triplet substance-paste anomic implicate ordering algebraic ring or modulus phenomenology growing at a rate x > than any primitive recursion recursive coding no end to circuitry (the only probability is disease) _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 19:28:47 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:47 PM Subject: Re: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar > Just go to a central location and announce that you are a poet and in a > protest at New Yorkian and Uessian Chavanisim tell everyone you are going to > read a poem or poems and then proceeed: read to the down and outs! Or > whoever...See it as a challenge: go to a big car plant and read a poem to > the workers in their lunch break and take their reaction n the chin! > Richard. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Bowering" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar > > > > >NY City George, thats where. Usually when the city isnt named, it's NYC. > > >Sometines, though, it can be Cleveland, or even Oshkosh. But you can > usually > > >bet it's NYC. I guess they dont care whether you show up or not. I still > > >love you. David > > > > Thanks , David. > > > > But here is what I am going to do: when they dont mention what city > > the event is going to be in, I am going to assume Saskatoon. > > -- > > George Bowering > > Turned against Shell Scott. > > Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:08:21 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Oulipuddlian matters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit various, Ron, Listologists. That;s good: I'm not a great mathematician (not even particularlyg "good" at maths as they say) but I had to do some when I did a Certificate in Engineering and used to coach about 5th Form Maths (here the students anre about 14 or 15,16 or so) and read a lot of poplular maths books..and often I'd digress onto ideas I'd picked up ... one point being to make the subject interesting: which it can be...maths has an enormous range of applications: but a huge area is of course pure maths and people in that level are like poets. And reversing that: poetry can be "useless" but by linking the two useful and useless become relative to what you want things to do for you (which leads back to my aswer to Murat (re intrinsic value etc) that eg a garden can have an intrinsic value but if the flowers of that garden are sold or the visitors to it are charged it becomes part of the production cycle: they become commodities - hence a poet is a commodity producer only if he/she receives money or something for poems (or exchanged)...and then turning back to the Oulipo the use of language is the great pleasure it can give (which if it does students make work more concentratedly and thus "get a good job" (nothing wrong with that), but also they may be seeing that poetry and art or whatever and music link (indirectly) to maths: in the sense we all know of beats per line and the restraint (more so with eg Bach but maybe not quite with eg Cage (athough even Cage is working inside a structure ..even Ives is: its just that its more difficult for most people to see it: they might worry about the concept of natural noise but music probably arose because we are aware of this "natural" noise (the wind and so on or nowadays the street) and so no matter how a poem is structured (in fact the poem I wrote in which I took random quotes I discovered that a kind of "rhythm" was developing: its almost as if the human agency cannot avoid imposing some kind of structure and thus a signification even if that is subliminal and thus or_or_stimulating or challenging and so on through to something that is "useful" or "tells a story" and that telling is what we have done ages: done ages....certain "themes" repeat even if you felt you ( I ) was inserting things quite randomly: the "pattern" is imposed I think by probability (as concepts will be 'found' in any text) or the mind 'automatically" chooses sertain more significant things to write or "put in" any text (the other extreme is work planned to the last "t" ... but even such a work (by a mathematical law) will develop "randomness" to a leser or later dgree: obviously Shakespeares sonnets are petty tightly controlled adnd planned and structures yet what determines certain words over others....or certain phrases...and some of these will have been "creative mistakes". So lets potualte that mathematics becomes less "cold and "logical" and possibly more poetical or the other way around: or cold and logical are found to be beautiful by those dubious of maths and technical ore maths people of the "more rigorous logical kind" (of course this is a predjudice about mathematicians but I;m trying to use a contrast here) look at poetry s mathematical or just intersting or as music. In the future it may be found that poetry is as essential as mathematics even for an aggressive capitalist system: but in a more advanced age we may find many thjngs conflating more often: fewer people worried or baffled by boundaries..greater mental health and creativity everywhere. A Utopian ideal maybe but Ithink it has possibilities: when a lecturer told me that Heidegger 9and I read) he soughta "solution" to social-political ills etc through poets andoetry Iw as quite skeptical ..but I'm less so now .... I'm not wanting here to go into the problem of Heidegger the nazi and the one who wouldnt relent to Celan (circa Pierre Joris's discussion of that) ...but some of his ideas on technology nad natue and society...but... Well Spicer's poem: "The ocean ,humiliating inits disguises..." that's got to be amongst other things by repetition, line breaks, theme, in a way it "pumps" like the sea: a poetamathical sea. Some thoughts. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Silliman" To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 2:46 AM Subject: Oulipuddlian matters > Oulipo is having an influence beyond literature. My sons came home from > their fourth grade math class talking about Oulipo, where the use of > "constrained writing forms" is being used to show how mathematics can apply > to the "real" world. > > Ron > > ---------------------- > > I dont know: my point to Tony is that (he's obsessed with numbers eg once in > a conversation he postulated the the number 3 was the strongest) and > searching for some transcendental thing to come through the word formations > ... but I'm not sure: he spends ages on these things: the problem for me is > as always: "Why are we(you/anyone) doing this?" Especially as otheres have > done it: as a techncal exercise maybe: but there has to be for me some > "deeper" rationale...and the thing about Perec is that he wrote only one > book (witout the e) so he realised I'd say that that had been done) ... and > each book he wrote had a different "angle" and so on...but I thought I'd > pass it on: the guy is very well-meaning. I'm not interested in poetry taht > is complex in the sense of these poems: its a bit like those quizes where > you describe something but arent allowed to repeat a word: its abit like a > Chess game or a mathematical puzzle or a complex crossword: fun but a bit > meaningless. Art poetry etc I feel has to_ try_ to do something: even if it > cant....something deeper has to under pin the work...but I dont > know...Richard. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Bowering" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 7:28 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem > > I have long been a big fan of OuLiPo and am proud to be in the Oulipo > compendium, so I am no enemy of this kind of practice. I dfid find > the piece interesting. Yr remarks on numbers are interesting, as half > the Oulipo people are mathematicians. You did know that Perec created > puzzles for daily papers and these are collected in a couple volumes? > > > >A poem by a friend, whose obsessed with Perec, and does palindromes and > >things. I dont know whether this is any good. See what people think. > >Richard. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tony Follari" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:11 PM > >Subject: Dear Richard,a new poem > > Interesting, but Christian Bok has done that whole book of them, eh? > > > > >> Dear Richard, here is a new poem of mine which is another univocalic > >> piece which uses the 'i' vowel exclusively. Here it is: > >> > >> > >> Psi Flight > >> > >> Swift in flight, > >> Light ships whiz in vivid pink light > >> Spinning high within simplistic prisms > >> Bridging cliffs within sci fi limits > >> Shining first with intrinsic timing > >> Glinting bright within its firing > >> Lightships tilt in blinding winds > >> Till twin ships spin in crisis > >> > >> in this psi-light > >> Six whistling ships inflict lightning > >> Whilst gliding in this swirling mist > >> Till flight chips switch in,blinking bright > >> Driving ships right with big wild swings > >> Till zinc linings twist tight > >> > >> In this psi-light > >> Twin minds think in signs > >> Printing insights in six kinds > >> Timing simplistic things with witchlight > > >> > > >> T.Follari Jan-Apr 2002 > > >> > > >> let me know what you think. > > >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > > > > > -- > George Bowering > Turned against Shell Scott. > Fax 604-266-9000 > > > > -- > George Bowering > Turned against Shell Scott. > Fax 604-266-9000 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 03:29:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog and Taxes, April 15, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please forward ____________ There are only two sure things in life: Boog and Taxes April 15, 10:00 p.m. Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery NYC free with performances by Greg Fuchs, Eliot Katz, Ian Wilder, and Kimberly Wilder and music from the Pollynoses and the Veronica Complex Hosted by Boog City editor David A. Kirschenbaum Bowery Poetry Club is at the foot of 1st St. (bet. Houston & Bleecker) diagonally across the street from CBGBs F train to Second Ave, 6 train to Bleecker For additional information: editor@boogcity.com or 212-206-8899 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 351 W.24th St., Suite 19E NY, NY 10011-1510 T: (212) 206-8899 F: (212) 206-9982 editor@boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 03:45:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Call for Ladyfest East Spoken word artists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I^Òm the committee head for Spoken Word booking at this year^Òs Ladyfest East, a non-profit, East coast based event dedicated to supporting and promoting the artistic talents and activism of women. It will feature filmmakers, performances by bands, spoken word, visual artists and more!!! It will include workshops, panels and dance parties, all devoted to forming a closer community of women. It^Òs taking place in Williamsburg, Brooklyn this coming September. The deadline for consideration, April 31, is just around the bend. Go to ladyfesteast.org click on artist info download the form and happy submitting. if you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me. hope all is well. THANKS!! david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 351 W.24th St., Suite 19E NY, NY 10011-1510 T: (212) 206-8899 F: (212) 206-9982 editor@boogcity.com www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:57:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The April Poets at Zinc Bar In-Reply-To: <003e01c1dd12$a5f60c40$6596ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >George: why stop at Saskatoon? Press on in a NWly direction until you reach >Biggar, Sask. That dot on the grid used to have a sign at its entrance, >"New York is big, but this is Biggar." I might write a treatise on Canadian >Humor and The Vain Boast. But I'm afraid you would say it was too long. x, >David This is amazing. Just today I read a piece by the editor of Western Living, who is a pitcher in my lague and who is from Biggar, Sask. I bet coincidences like that dont happen in New York City or the poetry of Bill Luoma. -- George Bowering Turned against Shell Scott. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:58:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The Big Picture at Beyond Baroque - April 7th - Sunday at 2 PM In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Hello > >Standard Schaefer here. I'm a local poet, published and so forth and I >would like to RSPV for the picture. Is this sufficient or should I phone it >in? > >Best, > >SS Local to where, Stan? -- George Bowering Turned against Shell Scott. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 06:56:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Saragossa Manuscript Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi y'all, a long while back, probably a couple of years or so, there was some discussion on the list about the Polish movie Saragossa Manuscript directed by Wojciech Has. I'm not sure who all was interested back then, or if they're still on the list, but thought it'd be worth noting that the film has recently been re-issued on DVD. The transfer is very good, and it's the three-hour long uncut version rather than the shorter version that was usually shown in the US back in the day. The film is based on a Polish novel by Jan Potocki from the 18th century and has a complexly nested narrative about a Flemish soldier's adventures with spirits, devils and very odd characters. The movie is gorgeous, filled with striking black & white imagery, long tracking shots of weird landscapes and interiors, all presented with a nicely textured ironic tone. I don't know if this restored version of the film is available in other formats. Bests, Herb ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 07:25:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Oulipuddlian matters In-Reply-To: <004301c1dd42$382344a0$e05637d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I really, really wish that people would stop mis-using Cage as a model for their own vaguely considered ideas about randomness and use of ambient sounds etc. Yeah, 4:33 is an important work, & yeah,m he used the I Ching a lot, but Cage wrote more than 200 compositions, very few of which are in any meaningful way random. What he did more than anything else was continually develop new strategies for making structures that subverted his own tastes when it came to issues of choosing notes, timings, etc. For the most part these involved converting one set of observed patterns or data into choices of sounds. For each of these works, he remained entirely consistent with whatever conversion system he had devised. In many cases, his music is nearly as over-determined as total serial music. Whatever else, Cage most certainly had little interest in something along the lines of >the mind 'automatically" chooses sertain more significant things to >write or "put in" any text and, in his own processes, wouldn't see this as necessarily being the opposite of >work planned to the last "t" For Cage, I think, in both instances the creator is quite likely to be following their own interests and habits, which is what he tried more than anything else to avoid doing. >(more so with eg Bach but maybe not quite with eg Cage (athough >even Cage is working inside a structure ..even Ives is: its just that its >more difficult for most people to see it: they might worry about the concept >of natural noise but music probably arose because we are aware of this >"natural" noise (the wind and so on or nowadays the street) and so no matter >how a poem is structured (in fact the poem I wrote in which I took random >quotes I discovered that a kind of "rhythm" was developing: its almost as if >the human agency cannot avoid imposing some kind of structure and thus a >signification even if that is subliminal and thus or_or_stimulating or >challenging and so on through to something that is "useful" or "tells a >story" and that telling is what we have done ages: done ages....certain >"themes" repeat even if you felt you ( I ) was inserting things quite >randomly: the "pattern" is imposed I think by probability (as concepts will >be 'found' in any text) or the mind 'automatically" chooses sertain more >significant things to write or "put in" any text (the other extreme is work >planned to the last "t" ... but even such a work (by a mathematical law) >will develop "randomness" to a leser or later dgree: obviously Shakespeares >sonnets are petty tightly controlled adnd planned and structures yet what >determines certain words over others....or certain phrases...and some of >these will have been "creative mistakes". -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:24:51 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Oulipuddlian matters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, A brilliant post all the way through. In response to your answer to me: >which leads back to my aswer to Murat (re > >intrinsic value etc) that eg a garden can have an intrinsic value but if >the > >flowers of that garden are sold or the visitors to it are charged it becomes > >part of the production cycle: they become commodities - hence a poet is >a > >commodity producer only if he/she receives money or something for poems >(or > >exchanged).. Exactly. That's why I am trying to split the writing itself (process) from its life after it. In principle, I have no objection to art's responding to its environment, culture. In fact, such a connection, I think, enriches the art, makes it at least indirectly indirectly (that's what your are partly talking about in this post, Richard) a mirror of its time. But: such a connection is so tenuous in poetry, at least in the States (that's what my money argument is all about), that its pursuit verges on delusion. The poet can transform this state of "weakness" into power (psychic power, "I play at Riches - to appease/ The Clamoring for Gold, Emily Dickinson) by choosing to turn away from it. This turn grants the poet, if he or she can embrace it, during the writing, absolute freedom. Seeing poetry as a process (here one can see the J. Cage/R. Foreman thread, Richard) is the poet's act of self empowerment, a move to throw away one's chains. An analytic act to gain class consciousness, the result of which poems become continuous, repetitive, discrete acts of unlearning, and not a craft to be learnt and mastered or attempts to "enrich" a tradition. Of course, as a human being, a poet may and often does bitch about not being recognized or worry if he or she is going to be read in the future. But this has nothing to do with the writing of the poem itself. I think one can not become a poet, at least in the capitalist States if not in many other places also, without embracing this difficult, painful split. Only then, does the nature (the class place) of poetry in our culture becomes clear: language as play, as mental weaving (something viscerally visual, mind's eye), as process, contra language as use, as function. As mental weaving, poetry has a similarity with math. And, like math, a poem may or may not gain a social significance (function, value, becoming part of language as criticism, as ads, etc. ) in the future, as a math system may have application in physics, for instance. But the possibility of future function can not intrude during the process. Can a "pure" mathematician do math while his or her focus is on its possible use. I doubt it; in fact, such a double focus may make math impossible The same way, a poem can not be written while part of the question it's asking is related to value, "is it good, is it innovative, is it daring, is it relevant." A poet, I believe, must learn to respond to his or her own interests, has to go wherever he or she has to go. In relation to Oulipud and recent discussions on math: in the Islamic east (and medieval, Andalusian Judaism) math has connections to mysticism, which the modern association of math with science partly obscures. This mystical connection of course is also in Pythagorean Greece. Since the 17th century this side of math has become almost forbidden knowledge. Isn't Newton's calculus (the first major application of math to use, to science) an attempt to solve the problem of infinite regressions (Zeno's paradox), which is also the heart of Pythagorean golden mean (infinite series of regressive triangles). With "limits," Newton tries to go around the impossibility of division by zero, an impossibility which also generates the concept of inifinty. In other words, finding a use for math, connecting it to science required a going around, a "repression" of a frontal confrontation with infinity. The ghost of this repression haunts the beginnings of modern science, many early practitioners of which (Kepler, Newton) were mystics. Poetry also (at least in the States) is that ghost language, which in its writing must be unfettered, infinitely possible; which, once it gains a social "function," its essence inevitably undergoes a repression. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:53:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: address query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have the e-address of Rachel Tzvia Back? If so, please send it back channel. Thanks. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:57:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: The Big Picture at Beyond Baroque - April 7th - Sunday at 2 PM In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >> Hello >> >> Standard Schaefer here. I'm a local poet, published and so forth and I >> would like to RSPV for the picture. Is this sufficient or should I phone it >> in? >> >> Best, >> >> SS > > Local to where, Stan? Local to the event he's RSVPing for, George. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 09:04:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chase Park Subject: Re: Oulipuddlian matters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "Several days later I realized I have no time for technique because I must always be making one: any technique can be discovered after any technique is forgotten." John Cage "45' for a Speaker". Even other process oriented authors like Burroughs and the fold-ins, Mac Low with the computers, or Tzara's hat trick are all methods of trying to distance the personality of the author from the object of the text. David Horton PO Box 9136 Oakland, CA 94613-0136 510-251-2297 chasepark@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 09:30:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Summi Kaipa Subject: INTERLOPE number 7 In-Reply-To: <200203301918.OAA07932@bellerophon.cnchost.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed INTERLOPE, a journal dedicated to publishing innovative Asian American writing, has just published its 7th issue with such luminaries: Eileen Tabios Mona Nicole Sfeir Paolo Javier Barbara Pulmano Reyes Vidhu Prasann Pang Hui Lim Bhanu Kapil Rider Past contributors include: Tina Celona, Jeff Chang, Chris Chen, Jean Chen, Jessica Chiu, Linh Dinh, Sesshu Foster, Rafeeq Hasan, Lee Herrick, Mytili Jagannathan, Ben Kim, Quentin Lee, Walter K. Lew, Alvin Lu, Pamela Lu, Warren Liu, Miya Masaoka, Sawako Nakayasu, Kirthi Nath, Sianne Ngai, Yuji Oniki, Amar Ravva, Kerri Sakamoto, Prageeta Sharma, Brian Kim Stefans, Ida Yoshinaga, Fred Wah, Martin Wong. INTERLOPE 8 is the Filipina/o American issue, and will hit the stands in August 2002. More details on its launch party to come. Issues are $5 per issue (individual rate); $10 per issue (institutional rate). Please make checks payable in US Dollars to Summi Kaipa and send to: Summi Interlope PO Box 423058 San Francisco, CA 94142 Interlope gratefully acknowledges the support of the Potrero Nuevo Fund Prize and the Zellerbach Family Fund. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:16:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Douglas Messerli Subject: review of THE SCHOOL FOR ATHEISTS from Green Integer Comments: To: Matt Messerli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The School for Atheists A Novella =3D Comedy in 6 Acts Arno Schmidt Translated from the German by John E Woods Green Integer ($16.95) From Rain Taxi by Steven Moore For those who have been following Arno Schmidt's erratic appearances in = English translation over the last 20 years, the publication of The = School for Atheists is cause for celebration. This is one of the = "hyper-books" Schmidt wrote during his last decade, an oversized volume = with elaborate page layouts, illustrations, and Schmidt's unique, highly = expressive style of punctuation. At 301 pages it's no novella, but it = does resemble a play and is definitely a comedy. First published in 1972, The School is set mostly in the year 2014, = with an extended flashback to the summer of 1969, when a band of = atheists had their lack of faith tested (a clever reversal of the = tradition test-of-faith topos). The action takes place in a = "reservation" in northern Germany at a time when two superpowers rule = the globe: a matriarchal United States and a patriarchal China, = representatives from which converge on the reservation for a summit. At = the center of the novel is a typical Schmidt protagonist, a 75-year-old = justice of the peace named Kolderup, who shares Schmidt's own fantastic = erudition and iconoclastic views. Living with him are two "arsch damsels = of Seven=3DTeen," his daughter Suse and her friend Nipperchen, whose = romantic escapades provide most of the comedy in this sex farce. Schmidt was one of the few writers who valiantly attempted to pick = up where Joyce left off, using Finnegans Wake as a model for his own = punning, multilingual, polymorphously perverse prose. It takes some = getting used to--be prepared to spend about ten minutes on the first = page--but once you acclimatize yourself to it, Schmidt's prose is a = delightful concoction (or "cunt=3Dcock=3Dshun," as Schmidt would say) of = double entendres, learned allusions, and phonetically rendered speech, = all heroically translated by the fantastic John E. Woods. Though not as = difficult as Finnegans Wake, the novel likewise tosses many languages = into a word salad, using etymologies and puns to explore hidden = connections and tensions (often sexual) between signifiers and their = signifieds. Like Robert Musil, Schmidt is a German writer of the first rank = whose tardy appearance in English translation has kept him from being as = well known in America as his countrymen Mann, Grass, Boll, and others. = But enough Schmidt is now available that readers who consider themselves = au courant with innovative, experimental fiction have no excuse for not = knowing this literary giant. The School for Atheists is a good place to = start. [Rain Taxi, VII, 1 (Spring 2002), page 10] Green Integer also publishes Schmidt's Radio Dialogs 1 ($12.95). Both these books are now available to people on this list and the = Poetics list for a 20% discount. Send $13.56 + $1.50 for shipping =3D $15.06 for The School for = Atheists and/or $10.36 + $1.50 =3D $11.86 for Radio Dialogs 1. Send checks made out to = EL-E-PHANT (do not write the check to Green Integer) mailed to Green Integer 6026 = Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, California 90036. Douglas Messerli ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 17:06:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Christopher W. Alexander" Subject: Sci-fi, Darren Wershler-Henry, Notes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:45:43 -0500, Steven Shoemaker wrote: > One of the reasons I like the poem is because of the (well-handled) > sci fi element. I like sci fi and I like poetry, but these are usually > two separate enthusiasms. Anyone know of other places/poems where they > come together sucessfully? 1. The Short Answer In his book Nicholodeon, Darren Wershler-Henry produces a version of bpNichol's "Translating Translating Apollinaire" using the Klingon language, "Translating[n] Apollinaire 10: Klingon." I think that Nicholodeon is out of print now, but you can see an online version of the book at the Coach House Books website . I've never been so fortunate as to see him read the poem, though I know that he does so periodically, e.g. at the first Boston Alternative Poetry Conference back in '98. From DWH's Surplus Explanations: "This poem is written in grammatically correct Klingon, the most successful artifical language in history. There are some allowances here for poetic usage; since Klingon contains no equivalent for the word 'car,' for example, this text reads 'primitive shuttlecraft.' The characters themselves are not conventional Klingon, but those of a small splinter colony, the Klinzhai; they bear a striking resemblance to Hebrew script." -- 2. The Long-Winded, Barely Coherent Conjecture Actually, I hope this isn't too incoherent, but caveat lector: I'm very tired after last night's DJ Spooky show. What I find particularly successful in this case is that Wershler-Henry eschews sci-fi as a theme, managing instead to take up something of its speculative methodology: "okay, the language exists, so what if we do this...." Whereas the thematic impulse risks introducing new material into a poetic milieu that stands unchanged, Wershler-Henry's treatment is experimental at the most fundamental level. Poetry doesn't escape the basic consequences of meddling with popular science fiction, but the dislocation that comes of that meddling is itself a joyous occasion. Too, that I really enjoy the conjunctive nature of the enterprise: more and more I wonder whether poetry's intensest points don't lie in its axes with other (loosely-termed) systems and procedures. OULIPO and mathematics, as in the current thread - or Zukofsky and mathematics - certainly Zukofsky and music - Mac Low's work with aleatory procedures and generative constraints - John Cage's procedural compositions - and here I'd like to nod toward Herb Levy's comment (Sat, 6 Apr 2002 07:25:41 -0600) that > What he did more than anything else was continually develop new > strategies for making structures that subverted his own tastes when > it came to issues of choosing notes, timings, etc. For the most part > these involved converting one set of observed patterns or data into > choices of sounds. For each of these works, he remained entirely > consistent with whatever conversion system he had devised. In many > cases, his music is nearly as over-determined as total serial music. - Marianne Moore's use of the library/archive - strike me as logical extensions of, say, Emily Dickinson's relationship to the dictionary and to the personal letter. Some will perceive these as relatively conservative examples, but I guess that's where I'm coming from right now - and then again, experimental is as experimental does. (Poets have always known to read each other despite the silly academic issue of canonicity, since poetry lives substantially outside of the academy, though it can find the academy useful. Topic for another day.) I know that DWH locates himself in terms of a very different genealogy (except for the OULIPO) but perhaps not exclusively; in any case, one could position all of these works in terms of their reach toward the inclusion of heterogenous technologies in the broad sense. As Raymond Queneau makes clear, all writing is technological before the fact; even the concept of "the human" has its own history and limitations. (Queneau doesn't say that, precisely. Queneau says "inspiration which consists in blind obedience to every impulse is in reality a sort of slavery. The classical playwright is freer than the poet who writes [whatever] comes into his head and who is the slave of other rules of which he is ignorant." Cf. Motte's OULIPO: A Primer of Potential Literature, p. 41) Poetry is technical: a function of rhythms and melodies that oftent have little to do with speech, unnatural vocabularies and formative tropes, syntax and schema, themes; the centuries-ongoing crystallization of assumptions, acts of forgetting, discoveries. The writers in the above, very abbreviated list introduce new tools or new relations to old tools - some of which come from outside the order of what had been considered, at the moment, the orthodox toolbox for poetry. All of them work with tools other than - or with other tools in addition to - received forms on the one hand, and language as an expressive function on the other. At the time, for example, there was nothing obvious about Dickinson's particular relationship to the dictionary; cf. Letters vol. 2 #261: "for several years, my Lexicon - was my only companion." In any case, the results of this companionship certainly weren't obvious to Higginson, who intimated that she ought to bring her work under control. Letter #265: You think my gait "spasmodic" - I am in danger - Sir - You think me "uncontrolled" - I have no Tribunal. Letter #271: I think you called me "Wayward." Talk of Dickinson's desire/need to control herself - a gendered as well as a formal issue - extends all the way into contemporary scholarship, as if bent on demonstrating just how poorly the bulk of editors, biographers, and critics read. (Not dissimilarly, Moore is taught in many cases as a second-rank nature poet: inexpert at what she is not doing.) Letter #449, again addressing Higginson's incomprehension: "Could 'Liquid Hills' be steep?" What could Higginson know of the joys attending the discovery that Avalanche and Avenue occurred in adjacent columns in the 1848 edition of Webster's Dictionary? Taken in the foregoing company, "Translating[n] Apollinaire" instructs us that the systems with which poetry can interface remain heterogenous: that it's useful to pass beyond the tools that have come to seem obvious to us at present. DWH again: "The poems in NICHOLODEON were written out of the conviction that we only use language because we haven't got anything that works better." It reminds us that there is a whole lot of outside waiting to get in, possibilities teeming like zombies in Night of the Living Dead. Dammit! It blows our chances of relaxing in front of the poetv. In fact, DWH's tools extend past the linguistic to the mechanical, as in his use of fonts-as-translation (compare Pierre Joris' superfantastic "5 Translations from Arthur Rimbaud's Une Saison en Enfer," made by writing the poems over a sheet of scratch-off letters) or "Deskjetsam," which is evidently the result of cruelty to his HP Deskjet. These procedures may strike some readers as simple, but that reaction could be attributed in turn to discomfort with what they have to tell us. For one thing, my phrase "conjunctive enterprise" isn't quite accurate, implying as it does a linear model A | B = C: "Translating Apollinaire" | Klingon = "Translating[n] Apollinaire 10: Klingon." (The pipe character | will be familiar to users of Unix or Linux as a command to "pipe" data resulting from one operation into another program.) If it were the whole consequence of this work that we could translate poems written in one language into various other sign- and data-systems, I wouldn't be so interested. "Translating[n] Apollinaire" is, obviously, a series of translations. But, perhaps less obviously, it is a *series* of translations, a poem comprised of serial translations of the same text - and therefore, oddly enough, not itself a translation in any usual sense of the word. Whereas we might think of translation as, very roughly, the act of carrying a made thing into a new system (semantic or otherwise), "Translating[n] Apollinaire" finds DWH folding a number of heterogenous systems into the poem as an act of composition. Rather than n renditions of one poem, we have one poem constructed by a successive passage into n systems. The distinction is crucial in terms of bringing the poem round to meet the works mentioned earlier: it looks toward writing as a process incorporating heterogenous materials by means other than reference or theme. Whatever sense or significance we could attach to DWH's use of Klingon, for instance, is secondary to the fact of its having been one of the available tools. As the title given to DWH's notes to the piece indicates, explanations are surplus. At the same time, DWH's work provides an interesting contrast to the works mentioned earlier in that it does not produce a new work in English - or not until someone translates "Translating[n] Apollinaire." But to consider this point would be to take up the poem in its relation to bpNichol's enterprise, something Christian Bok has already done in "Nickel Linoleum" . This is getting too long for a piece of email, anyway. Christopher W. Alexander cwa@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 14:17:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:45 PM 4/5/02 -0500, you wrote: >One of the reasons I like the poem is because of the (well-handled) sci fi >element. I like sci fi and I like poetry, but these are usually two >separate enthusiasms. Anyone know of other places/poems where they come >together sucessfully? The Autonomedia/Semiotext(e) SF anthology of 10 or 12 years ago (I think the title is just plain _SF_) had some poems in it, one by Hakim Bey/Peter Lamborn Wilson. Couldn't vouch for their "success" as I don't have the book at hand. But I enjoyed the book, at the time LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 16:17:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Palma Subject: April is Calif Poetry Month, also The Big Picture on KXLU 88.9 FM - tonight at 8 PM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello! It's Christine again - I just wanted to announce a few more things related to The Big Picture on Sunday. This is in Venice, California. If you are in Los Angeles or the SF Valley - TUNE IN TONIGHT - Steering Committee Chair and main organizer Amelie Frank, and also mark Savage Photographer will be on KXLU Los Angeles - 88.9 FM tonight from 8 to 9 PM. This Saturday April 6th! They will discuss the significance and richness of the SoCal poetry landscape, perhaps from a historical standpoint, but definitely in it's current state :-) Also this evening's show will be a tribute to John Thomas and Marta Mitrovich, both of whom passed away last week. !! At The Big Picture this Sunday, Gov. Davis is sending a rep. from the California Arts Council to proclaim that April is California Poetry month and laud the contributions both to the community and to the human spirit of the act of writing and participating in poetry.... Once again, the website for this event is at: http://www.beyondbaroque.org/bigpicture and it has a printable PDF file with info you need to participate if you are a poet. If you are not a poet and want to volunteer, please show up around 1 PM and ask for Amelie Frank and tell her you want to volunteer. Please scroll down to read about John and Marta and also to read the Proclamation :-) Cheers! Christine Palma _________ The links on the homepage of the Big Picture site has more about Marta and John. IN MEMORY: This past Easter weekend, Southern California poetry lost two vital and beloved members of the community. Marta Mitrovich was a seminal figure in Orange County poetry, hosting the long-running Laguna Poets series from its inception in the 1970s through its first 20 years. John Thomas was one of the original Venice Beats, who could claim friendship with both Ezra Pound and Charles Bukowski while carving his own significant niche in the Los Angeles poetry scene over the last 30 years. We will be dedicating The Big Picture, with love, to their memory. ___________ GOVERNOR DAVIS DECLARES APRIL 2002 - "CALIFORNIA POETRY MONTH" SACRAMENTO -Governor Davis today declared April 2002, "California Poetry Month," to encourage members of the community to participate in California's cultural life and contribute to the State's literary heritage. "Poetry allows language to free our imaginations and expand our creative horizons," Governor Davis said. "It offers opportunities for those seeking self-knowledge, but it especially encourages children to discover the wealth of language and expression in their own lives." Sunday, April 7, more than 300 poets from all over Southern California will be gathering at the Beyond Baroque Literary Arts Center for a historic celebration of poetry. Steven Fogel, immediate past chair of the California Arts Council, will deliver comments and this proclamation. These artists will be photographed at the event as a display of Southern California published poets to celebrate National Poetry Month. Throughout the month of April, poetry will be read, performed and discussed by thousands of individuals and organizations within the State. "California Poetry Month" celebrates literature and, specifically, raises the importance of poetry. ________ P R O C L A M A T I O N by the Governor of the State of California WHEREAS, poetry allows language to free our imaginations and expand our creative horizons and intellects; and WHEREAS, by encouraging members of our diverse communities to participate in the California's cultural life and contribute to our state's literary heritage, poetry enriches the lives of every Californian; and WHEREAS, the process of writing poetry opens up the heart and mind as it provides each person an avenue of self-expression; and WHEREAS, poetry offers opportunities for those seeking self-knowledge; and WHEREAS, the art of spoken poetry encourages schoolchildren to discover the wealth of language and expression in their own lives; and WHEREAS, throughout the month of April, poetry will be read, performed, discussed, and brought to life by thousands of individuals and organizations in a broad spectrum of communities and venues throughout the state; and WHEREAS, California Poetry Month celebrates these rich literary offerings and raises awareness of the importance of poetry to the Golden State; NOW, THEREFORE, I, GRAY DAVIS, Governor of the State of California, do hereby proclaim April, 2002 as "California Poetry Month." IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Great Seal of the State of California to be affixed this 4th day of April 2002. Governor of California ATTEST: Secretary of State ____________________________________ Christine Palma "Echo in the Sense" - Poetry, Prose, Performance - Cultural and Public Affairs Programming KXLU Los Angeles - 88.9 FM Saturday Evenings from 8 to 9 PM E-mail: Christine@DROMO.com Tel: (714) 979-3414 "Take a step into the sublime. . ." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 19:46:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Christopher W. Alexander" Subject: Sci-fi, Darren Wershler-Henry, Notes 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3. Briefer Unwieldy Conjecture Or back to the keyboard for one final note. In Christian Bok's review-essay, he says: "Wershler-Henry suggests that such a new poetics must dramatize the effect of artificial discourses--and nowhere does this premise appear more obvious than during his use of the Klingon language to create a sci-fi lautgedichte. Such a text implies that, in the modern milieu, poetry has become so heteroclite, so nonsensical, that it is now little more than an alien idiom, like the hieroglyphs of a Klinzhai alphabet, its characters unreadable, except in the neverland of speculative imagination: 'since Klingon contains no equivalent for the word 'car,' [...] this text reads 'primitive shuttlecraft'' (1997a:[90]). Wershler-Henry also suggests that a new poetics must dramatize the effects of mechanical procedures...." ("Nickel Linoleum" ) While I'm substantially in agreement with the notion that poetry has an integral but too-little-understood relationship to "artificial discourses" and "mechanical procedures," I'd want to make a shift away from the idea that systemic interference needs to be "dramatized" - which says to me, converted (-ized) into something that is done for the audience, something demonstrated - toward the idea that they need to be used. Perhaps it's just my errant nature, but I've always found the assumptions that we make about our relationship to audience a little backwards: after all - and I take it that here I'm in some measure of basic agreement with Murat's desire "to split the writing itself (process) from its life after it" (Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:24:51 EST) - I just don't believe that good art is made with the audience in mind. Good art comes with attention to sensations, not signs; even if signs are usually (not always) involved. That's why, to respond to a question recently overheard, the avant garde isn't always (ever) pedagogical - though it's true that we as readers are always trying to catch up with the writers we love. Compare DWH's insistence, cited by Bok, "that language is a cyborganic phenomenon, in which we do not translate words into meaning so much as dissipate forms into function." To keep from hijacking Murat's phrase, I should say that the reasoning behind my use of the statement is a bit different. It sometimes upsets people when I say this, but I'm not much invested in either an abstract concept of freedom or the human individual as the ultimate source of art - including my own. On this point, I could mention Queneau again - even if some of my writing practices look to be "procedural" in exactly the sense he means to put down. The once and future history of writing is beginning to look to me rather something more like Delanda's "human artisans playing the role of historically necessary 'channelers' for the machinic phylum's 'creativity.'" (Cf. War in the Age of Intelligent Machines, page 8) That is to say, one could write a non-human history of poetry as a self-organizing process enfolding other such processes - e.g., the haphazard movement from pen to typewriter to computer-generated acrostic; the haphazard movement from letter to listserv. Which Is Not to apply a vague notion of "evolution" in the sense of either a strictly linear development or "betterment" - notions that seem to have little to do with Darwin. Nor is it to overemphasize the role of computer technology, which though important is not exclusive. Drawing a line from the development of Fortran to the end of poetry as we know it is just too damn'd linear to be of use. On this count, we'd also want to include for example - as Jonathan Skinner has pointed out - birdsong as heterogeneous line of development in Dickinson's work. Kristen Gallagher would advise: think Oliver Messien. As I asserted in an understated way in my previous message, technology is already inside the human, if often in surprising forms. Anyway, the point of these rambling paragraphs is that if we are really going to embrace the promise of something like OULIPO, we will have to allow for the disruption of even our most cherished assumptions; and if we are going to engage with overtly heterogenous systems and mechanical procedures, we ought to admit that the history of those proceedings is larger than it first looks. -- Incidentally, Klingon - despite being a "synthetic" language - has a non/native poetic tradition; see for example, Klingon Poetry . With this fact in mind, at a superficial level we might liken translating "Translating Apollinaire" into Klingon to the bizarre and admirable "Klingon Shakespeare Restoration Project" : a diversification of available resources that will no doubt have a deforming impact on the development of the Klingon tongue. I wonder if DWH's poem has made a blip on the radar? Hmmm. I'd love to see an "updated" version of Bottom: On Shakespeare, but apparently we're still waiting for the Klingon Zukofsky. Christopher W. Alexander cwa@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:21:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Dowker Subject: Re: Fw: Dear Richard,a new poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam Cornford's _MILLENIUM: A Topology_ (http://members.rogers.com/alterra/corn.htm) perhaps, or _The Iridescent Enigma_ by Will Alexander (http://members.rogers.com/alterra/wa.htm)? David alterra@rogers.com http://members.rogers.com/alterra/ Steven Shoemaker wrote: > I like sci fi and I like poetry, but these are usually two > separate enthusiasms. Anyone know of other places/poems where they come > together sucessfully? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:13:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wendy Kramer Subject: corrugated love pome classified ad Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, listees, i'm moving and wanna sell my "corrugated love pome 10: please send me a box of tissues." it's gotta custom frame too so it's ready for hanging. if you are an nyc person and buy now, you can get your choice of cheap furniture for free (if you can drive it away): a futon with frame, a small desk, a standing lamp. would like a couple hundred cuz that's what it cost to frame but will negotiate/trade. p.s. i think i have a tape recording of a sample reading of it to go with, gotta dig around and see. please backchannel through apr. 15 tax time or phone at 718-832-2666. wendy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:38:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Sci-fi, Darren Wershler-Henry, Notes 2 In-Reply-To: <1904993.3227111176@ny-chicagost2a-95.buf.adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Christopher Alexander writes: Hmmm. I'd love to see an "updated" version of Bottom: On Shakespeare, but apparently we're still waiting for the Klingon Zukofsky.<<< What, you haven't read "Poem Beginning 'Die, Romulan Scum'"? Or: "A round of bat'leths slicing back..." Gwyn "Too Much Star Trek" McVay --- "We share half our genome with the banana. This is more evident in some of my acquaintances than others." Sir Robert May, President of the Royal Society of London ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 16:24:22 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: Fast Food Nation, or, Steve Carll's new hamburger book Comments: cc: PoetryEspresso@topica.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A year or so ago, Tinfish Press came into over a hundred foil envelopes = that read "hamburger" on them. I commissioned Steve Carll, an erstwhile = vegetarian, to write a small book to fit these envelopes. I'm pleased = to announce that the book is available, as of tomorrow, for a mere $5 = from Tinfish, 47-728 Hui Kelu Street #9, Kaneohe, HI 96744. The design = is by Anne Sakutori, and it's well worth the drive through!=20 Want fries with that? Tinfish Press has lots more poem food, including = books by Bill Luoma, Lisa Kanae, Lisa Asagi and Gaye Chan, and _Tinfish_ = 11, which features a different work of art AS every cover (for a mere = $8). In the near future, Tinfish Press will be publishing work by = Murray Edmond of New Zealand, Sawako Nakayasu of Japan/CA/Providence, = and Lee Tonouchi of Aiea, Hawai`i. Keep your ears peeled!! One further note: the most recent Poethia single author issue featured = my work. You can get it from poethia@mindspring.com, as it comes via = email. aloha, Susan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:54:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Sci-fi, Darren Wershler-Henry, Notes 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/6/02 7:48:56 PM, cwa@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: >I just don't believe that good art is made with the >audience in mind. Good art comes with attention to sensations, not signs; >even if signs are usually (not always) involved. Yes. Isn't it that in poetry language is obsessive, eroticized, fetishized beyond its social "use"? >That's why, to respond >to >a question recently overheard, the avant garde isn't always (ever) >pedagogical - though it's true that we as readers are always trying to >catch up with the writers we love. Compare DWH's insistence, cited by Bok, >"that language is a cyborganic phenomenon, in which we do not translate >words into meaning so much as dissipate forms into function." Yes again. The phrase "dissipate words into function" uncovers the anti-poetry, the complete blindness to what poetry is (or should be) of Wittgenstein's view of language. What more withering crticisim of the assumptions behind "Philosophical Investigations" than this phrase: "dissipate words into function." Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 09:18:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sci-fi, Darren Wershler-Henry, Notes 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/7/02 8:54:39 AM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << >I just don't believe that good art is made with the >audience in mind. Good art comes with attention to sensations, not signs; >even if signs are usually (not always) involved. >> Yes. Isn't it that in poetry language is obsessive, eroticized, fetishized beyond its social "use"? >> Maybe the problem is simply one of semantics. But how does a sensation (an obsession, erotic moment, fetish) make itself known to us without signs, as signs? Do they not necessarily involve signification? Can anyone come up with an example of art that bypasses signs? Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 13:14:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Sci-fi, Darren Wershler-Henry, Notes 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/7/02 8:18:57 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: >Maybe the problem is simply one of semantics. But how does a sensation >(an >obsession, erotic moment, fetish) make itself known to us without signs, >as >signs? Do they not necessarily involve signification? Can anyone come >up >with an example of art that bypasses signs? Best, Bill > Partly, signification may be assigned by the reader, the public. No art bypasses signs because nothing is regarded as art unless picked and rationalized as such by the public. Your question is circular, true only apriori, when "art" is regarded as a word (in terms of usage). But what if art is taken as a "thereness," vision. This is similar to the question, does a sound, a tree in the forest exist if no one's there to see or hear it. The empiricist says no, the idealist says yes. I for one believe the impetus for art starts outside language and words constitute one of the media through which it finds body. Partly that's why, I believe, poetry benefits greatly through cross fertilization with other media (outside the close system or outside the "modes of intention (Benjamin)" of words in any language, their usage). Translation is that process of crossfertilization "outside usage." Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 12:19:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Boston Poetry Marathon Subject: 2002 Boston Poetry Marathon conference this summer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII 2002 BOSTON POETRY MARATHON Thursday, June 6 - Sunday, June 9 at the Art Institute of Boston 700 Beacon Street in Kenmore Square Readers will include: Jim Behrle Charles Bernstein Janet Bowdan Norma Cole James Cook Del Ray Cross Christopher Davis Donna de la Perriere Stephen Ellis Ethan Fugate Forrest Gander Aaron Kiely Susan Landers Joseph Lease Bill Luoma Tracey McTague Sharon Mesmer Jena Osman Maureen Owen Wanda Phipps Bin Ramke David Rivard Juliana Spahr and many others Admission is free. For more info: bostonpoetry@thevortex.com _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 17:49:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: An Evening of Poetry and Fiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AN EVENING OF POETRY AND FICTION IN THE WESTBETH COMMUNITY ROOM 155 Bank Street, West Village, New York City with Lynda Schor James V. Cervantes & Halvard Johnson Sunday, April 14, 2002 7 pm No Charge Information: 212-691-2764 or 212-691-6337 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:18:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: <200204070618.g376IlS19677@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >> >>>> >> Hello >>>>>> >>>>>> Standard Schaefer here. I'm a local poet, published and so >>>>>>forth and I >>>>>> would like to RSPV for the picture. Is this sufficient or should >>>>>>I phone it >>>>>> in? >>>>>> >>>> >> Best, >>>> >> >>>> >> SS >>>> > >>>> > Local to where, Stan? >>>> >>>> >>>>Local to the event he's RSVPing for, George. >>>> >>> >-Aaron >>> > >>Local to an event? > -- George Bowering Always liked people named Williams. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:09:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Robert Creeley (by way of Charles Bernstein )" Subject: Allen DeLoach Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Allen DeLoach was a solid worker in the proverbial vineyard, a great survivor, a great heart. For years at UB he was the primary tape-recorder(er) of readings and other action -- much like his New York elder, the poet Paul Blackburn, had been. DeLoach's journal INTREPID (1964-1972?) brought writers as various as Walter Lowenfels and Diane DiPrima to the common reader of the time and his anthology, A Decade & Then Some, collecting the active writers of the Lower East Side whom he had published, became a landmark for the era he shared with such abiding scribes as Ed Sanders, Gregory Corso, William Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg. The British critic Eric Mottram was also a close friend until his death. As and when the literary annals of Buffalo for the past 50s years are writ, Allen DeLoach will be a primary reference for the work that got done, including very much his own. Salve, most generous old friend! --Robert Creeley *** DELOACH - Allen W., social worker, writer [Buffalo News 4/6/2002] Allen W. DeLoach, a social worker, educator, writer, editor and filmmaker, died Thursday (April 4, 2002) in his Kenmore home after a lengthy illness. He was 62. An employment counselor for 17 years for the Erie County Department of Social Services, he retired in 1997 because of failing health. A 1971 graduate of the University at Buffalo, DeLoach also was a member of the founding faculty of Empire State College and served as an assistant professor at the college for several years. In addition, he was a tireless promoter of local arts and writing organizations, including the Niagara-Erie Writers and the Artists Gallery of Western New York, which he served as a director. In the 1950s and early 1960s, DeLoach lived on the Lower East Side of New York City, where he associated with hundreds of writers and poets, including Allen Ginsberg. He later remembered many of them in a book titled "The East Side Scene." During that period, he helped usher in the beat movement in poetry and literature. As a writer, editor and publisher, he published about 40 books of poetry, prose, journals, anthologies and photographs. Born in Jacksonville, Fla., DeLoach completed pre-engineering studies at the University of Florida, Gainesville. He served in the Marine Corps and later in the Marine Corps Reserves. He left Jacksonville in 1959 and, with $2 in his pocket, hitchhiked to New York City to become a writer. He is survived by his wife, the former Janet Burden; two sons, Allen and Karsten, both of San Francisco; a brother, Robert of Macon, Ga.; a sister, Patricia Young of Alabama; eight stepchildren; and 17 stepgrandchildren. Funeral services will be held at 10 a.m. Monday in Greco Funeral Home, 2909 Elmwood Ave., Kenmore. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:03:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Vernon Frazer reads April 20 at Harvard Coop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vernon Frazer will read his poetry: Saturday=20 April 20 2:00 P.M. Harvard Coop 1400 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:10:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sci-fi, Darren Wershler-Henry, Notes 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/7/02 1:15:06 PM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << In a message dated 4/7/02 8:18:57 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: >Maybe the problem is simply one of semantics. But how does a sensation >(an >obsession, erotic moment, fetish) make itself known to us without signs, >as >signs? Do they not necessarily involve signification? Can anyone come >up >with an example of art that bypasses signs? Best, Bill > Partly, signification may be assigned by the reader, the public. No art bypasses signs because nothing is regarded as art unless picked and rationalized as such by the public. Your question is circular, true only apriori, when "art" is regarded as a word (in terms of usage). But what if art is taken as a "thereness," vision. This is similar to the question, does a sound, a tree in the forest exist if no one's there to see or hear it. The empiricist says no, the idealist says yes. I for one believe the impetus for art starts outside language and words constitute one of the media through which it finds body. Partly that's why, I believe, poetry benefits greatly through cross fertilization with other media (outside the close system or outside the "modes of intention (Benjamin)" of words in any language, their usage). Translation is that process of crossfertilization "outside usage." Murat >> Well, yes and no. I don't think of either of my questions as circular, or involving a priori matter, unless their rhetorical thrust may be classified that way. Of course I agree. No communication of any sort escapes signification. That would be a contradiction in terms. However, I suspect an assumption in your comments above with which I might not agree. You suggest that poetry benefits from cross fertilization with "other" media because the impetus for poetry lies outside language (you identify this as a matter of faith -- "I believe"). The suggestion, if I'm reading you correctly, is that such interaction permits poetry to connect on some level with that impetus present in other media. Either that, or poetry and other media both find their sources in "thereness," (being?), in vision. But that common source is most assuredly language itself. Whatever media we access, it generates meaning for us only insofar as it is underwritten by language. Music, for example, may soothe the savage beast. But as soon as we conceptualize it as music, it is language bound. Since we are language bound, there is no way for us to cross the line to determine whether your faith is justified, whether it finds its fulfillment in a source beyond language. I have no doubt that the animal, the organic, the beyond or below human leaks into language and is simultaneously transformed/conceptualized/mediated. But treating it as a source is another matter altogether. That's a "faith," an idea possible only within language. As for Berkeley's tree, the empiricist is likely correct, knowing what we do about sound waves, the ear drum, the interpretive/coordinating functions of mind. Still, it is necessary for us not to be there in order to know if there is any there there. Fat chance. So we're stuck. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:10:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lisa jarnot Subject: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for someone to stay in my one bedroom apartment in brooklyn from Friday May 10th thru Thursday May 23rd and to take care of my two cats and one small pet lizard. My apartment is in Williamsburg, Brooklyn-- close to the L train at Bedford Avenue-- 5 minutes to Manhattan by L train-- I was hoping to collect 200 bucks for this two week sublet, but it is negotiable-- please let me know if you know of anyone who might be interested in doing this. Please distribute this to cat lovers in need of a brooklyn vacation! thanks, Lisa Jarnot 718-388-4938 jarnot@pipeline.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:23:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 6 Apr 2002 to 7 Apr 2002 (#2002-56) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for contacting Small Press Traffic. April 5-7, we present Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing Now. Next week I will be away. If it's urgent please call (415) 551-9278. Otherwise, I will reply asap on my return. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Dir. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:31:09 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: review of THE SCHOOL FOR ATHEISTS from Green Integer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yahaay!! Arno Schmidt news!! This is almost like Christmas. How does one (and how much?) pay for both from the UK? Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Messerli" To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 5:16 PM Subject: review of THE SCHOOL FOR ATHEISTS from Green Integer The School for Atheists A Novella = Comedy in 6 Acts Arno Schmidt Translated from the German by John E Woods Green Integer ($16.95) From Rain Taxi by Steven Moore For those who have been following Arno Schmidt's erratic appearances in English translation over the last 20 years, the publication of The School for Atheists is cause for celebration. This is one of the "hyper-books" Schmidt wrote during his last decade, an oversized volume with elaborate page layouts, illustrations, and Schmidt's unique, highly expressive style of punctuation. At 301 pages it's no novella, but it does resemble a play and is definitely a comedy. First published in 1972, The School is set mostly in the year 2014, with an extended flashback to the summer of 1969, when a band of atheists had their lack of faith tested (a clever reversal of the tradition test-of-faith topos). The action takes place in a "reservation" in northern Germany at a time when two superpowers rule the globe: a matriarchal United States and a patriarchal China, representatives from which converge on the reservation for a summit. At the center of the novel is a typical Schmidt protagonist, a 75-year-old justice of the peace named Kolderup, who shares Schmidt's own fantastic erudition and iconoclastic views. Living with him are two "arsch damsels of Seven=Teen," his daughter Suse and her friend Nipperchen, whose romantic escapades provide most of the comedy in this sex farce. Schmidt was one of the few writers who valiantly attempted to pick up where Joyce left off, using Finnegans Wake as a model for his own punning, multilingual, polymorphously perverse prose. It takes some getting used to--be prepared to spend about ten minutes on the first page--but once you acclimatize yourself to it, Schmidt's prose is a delightful concoction (or "cunt=cock=shun," as Schmidt would say) of double entendres, learned allusions, and phonetically rendered speech, all heroically translated by the fantastic John E. Woods. Though not as difficult as Finnegans Wake, the novel likewise tosses many languages into a word salad, using etymologies and puns to explore hidden connections and tensions (often sexual) between signifiers and their signifieds. Like Robert Musil, Schmidt is a German writer of the first rank whose tardy appearance in English translation has kept him from being as well known in America as his countrymen Mann, Grass, Boll, and others. But enough Schmidt is now available that readers who consider themselves au courant with innovative, experimental fiction have no excuse for not knowing this literary giant. The School for Atheists is a good place to start. [Rain Taxi, VII, 1 (Spring 2002), page 10] Green Integer also publishes Schmidt's Radio Dialogs 1 ($12.95). Both these books are now available to people on this list and the Poetics list for a 20% discount. Send $13.56 + $1.50 for shipping = $15.06 for The School for Atheists and/or $10.36 + $1.50 = $11.86 for Radio Dialogs 1. Send checks made out to EL-E-PHANT (do not write the check to Green Integer) mailed to Green Integer 6026 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, California 90036. Douglas Messerli ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:45:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Sci-fi, Darren Wershler-Henry, Notes In-Reply-To: <1326811.3227101563@ny-chicagost2a-95.buf.adelphia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" it must be the peculiar condition of the present moment that within a few days of our venerable listowner posting in to (among other things) cite delanda's "human artisans playing the role of historically necessary 'channelers' for the machinic phylum's 'creativity'" (an intriguing thought, to be sure, if prematurely apocalyptic), i am treated to the following: (1) -- a fluff (?) segment on the abc weekend news lauding the popularity of spoken word poetries and the youth culture that supports same... to paraphrase promoter russell simmons, 'it all started with rap,' with the suggestion (at least) that these poetries, in addition to giving literal voice to urgent social issues, can be widely marketed, can actually make money---presumably, unlike other poetries... (2) -- an editorial in ~the new york times magazine~ by one toby cecchini, "writers of the world recite," that cops an attitude against poetry readings in general ("But the fact is that most of us -- on both sides of the podium -- hate readings") but serves also as a thinly-veiled assault on all variants of item (1) (cf. "Why dash the calming beauty of a collection of poetry that propped you up through a rough patch by witnessing its author, when not forgetting entire stanzas, braying it out in an annoyingly agressive 'Beat' style?")... this column flanks a fashion insert entitled, quite accurately, "MEN of Letters" (my uppercase), courtesy of which the literati can be ogled at one's liesure striking suitably literary poses, regaled in haute couture (no, i am not joking)... (3) -- word from stephen king, somewhat contrary to his prior public statement, that he will in fact *not* stop writing in the fall, after all... that is, that he will only stop *publishing*---and that, in the future, anything he writes that he wishes to publish will be published *by him* (recall his online venture of a coupla years back)... (4) -- word from oprah winfrey that she can't find books that she's "really passionate about," ergo that she's ending her book club as a regular feature (the fact that oprah's ratings *have* dropped considerably during her book club spots "doesn't matter," according to her producer... and in any case, oprah *will* continue to endorse books, as she sees fit)... (5) -- and finally -- this is all within a few days, mind you, and i had to check with my partner to be sure that my asthma meds weren't inducing a mild form of hysteria -- i read in ~the ny times~ that charles frazier (of ~cold mountain~ fame) has signed a deal worth a total of $9.5 million (more or less) for a book that, to date, consists of a 1-page outline... now i don't purport to be able to resolve with any expediency the disparities (anomalies?) attendant to these roughly simultaneous, uhm, happenings... but i do believe that for writers or artists of whatever persuasion to regard (1) through (5) in mutually exclusive terms might constitute something of a, well, a miscalculation... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:01:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Belladonna* readings April and May 2002, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For immediate release: April 8, 2002 Contact: Rachel Levitsky (718) 398-9003; email: Levitsk@attglobal.net The BELLADONNA* Series Celebrates National Poetry Month then Finishes the Season With Two Stellar Spring Events Friday, April 26, 7:00 p.m.^×Anne Waldman, kari edwards, Bhanu Kapil Rider Friday, May 24, 7:00 p.m.^×Rosmarie Waldrop and Tina Darragh Both readings take place at Bluestockings; New York^Òs only all women^Òs bookstore, located at 172 Allen Street, between Rivington and Stanton on the Lower East Side. For information and directions, call 212-777-6028. A $3.00 donation is requested. *** Anne Waldman is the author of 18 volumes of poetry including Baby Breakdown (1970), Fast Speaking Woman (1975), Makeup on Empty Space (1983), and more recently Helping the Dreamer: New and Selected Poems, 1966-1988 (1989), Marriage: A Sentence (2000), and her three volume epic Iovis: All is Full of Jove. She has edited numerous volumes, most recently the anthology Angel Hair Sleeps with a Boy in My Head, with poet Lewis Warsh. Anne Waldman^Òs poetic activities and achievements are too massive and diverse to begin to list. Publisher^Òs Weekly calls Waldman a ^ÓPost-Beat luminary and activist.^Ô She is co-founder of the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at Naropa Institute, is a Taos Poetry Festival heavyweight champion and has received numerous awards for her poetry including The Dylan Thomas Memorial Award (1967), The Poets Foundation Award (1969), The National Literary Anthology Award (1970), and a National Endowment for the Arts grant in 1979-80. Her most recent work includes Vow to Poetry: Essays, Interviews & Manifestos. Bhanu Kapil Rider is a British writer of Indian origin who lives in the foothills of the Colorado Rocky Mountains. A book of poetry/fiction, The Vertical Interrogation of Strangers, was published by Kelsey Street Press in 2001. She has also has a chapbook of fiction, Autobiography of a Cyborg, from Leroy Press. Currently, she is writing a novel based upon the true story of The Wolf Girls of Midnapure. Also, she earns a living as an Ayurvedic massage therapist, palm reader, and adjunct teacher of poetry and prose at Naropa University. kari edwards is a poet, artist and gender activist. kari is the author of post/(pink) (2001) prose poems on gender and language and Mandala of a dharma queen (1998) writings on dada, anarchy and gender. Sie is also the poetry editor I.F.G.E^Òs Transgender-Tapestry: a International Publication on Transgender Issues. hir work has been exhibited throughout the united states, including Denver Art Museum, New Orleans Contemporary Art Museum, University of California San Diego, and University of Massachusetts at Amherst. Edwards^Ò work can also be found in Blood and Tears (2000) an anthology on Matthew Shepard, (Painted Leaf Press), The International Journal of Sexuality and Gender Studies October-2000, Bombay Gin, Van Gogh^Òs Ear, Belight Fiction, In Posse and Fracture. Hir new unpublished manuscript a day in the life of p., is a story without solid subject or gender. kari also teacher at Naropa University on gender and myth. Rosmarie Waldrop is a noveslist, translator, and editor as well as one of the most influencial poet^Òs of her generation and the generations to follow. She is the author of over eleven volumes of poetry including A Key into the Language of Americ,(New Directions, 1994), The Reproduction of Profiles (New Directions, 1984) and Lawn of Excluded Middle (Tender Buttons, 1993 -- see durationpress.com^Òs out-of-print archive) and a collaborative work with the visual artist Jennifer MacDonnald, Peculiar Motions (Kelsey Street, 1990). She is the primary translator of Edmund Jabes into English and has also translated much of Paul Celan^Òs work, Emmanuel Hoquard, Joseph Gugliemi, Oskar Pastior and many others. Waldrop's most recent books of poems are Reluctant Gravities (New Directions, 1999), Split Infinites (Singing Horse Press, 1998), and Another Language: Selected Poems (Talisman House, 1997). Northwestern has reprinted her two novels, The Hanky of Pippin's Daughter and A Form/of Taking/It All as one paperback. She lives in Providence, RI. where she co-edits Burning Deck Books with Keith Waldrop. Tina Darragh is most recently the author of dream rim instructions (Drogue Press, 1999). Her play "Opposable Dumbs" w*-ill be performed at San Francisco Poet^Òs Theater during its Winter 2002 season. Among her other books are on the corner to off the corner (Sun & Moon, 1981), Striking Resemblance (Burning Deck, 1989), a(gain) st the odds (Potes and Poets, 1989), and adv. fans ^Ö the 1968 series (Leave Books, 1992). Her work has been included in several anthologies, among them In the American Tree (National Poetry Foundation, 1986, 2001), "Language" Poetries (New Directions,1987), out of everywhere: linguistically innovative poetry by women in North America & the UK (Reality Street Editions, 1996),and Moving Borders: Three Decades of Innovative Writing by Women (Talisman, 1998). The Etruscan Reader VIII (Etruscan Books, 1998) contains a selection of her work along with selected poems by Randolph Healy and Douglas Oliver. Darragh is employed as a reference librarian at Georgetown University. She lives Greenbelt, Maryland, with her husband P. Inman and their son, Jack. *** The BELLADONNA* Reading Series began in August 1999 at the then newly opened women^Òs bookstore (New York^Òs only) Bluestockings. In its two year history, BELLADONNA* has featured such writers as Erica Hunt, Fanny Howe, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Cecilia Vicuña, Lisa Jarnot, Camille Roy and Nicole Brossard among many other experimental and hybrid women writers. Beyond being a platform for women writers, the curators promote work that is experimental in form, connects with other art forms, and is socially/politically active in content. Alongside the readings, BELLADONNA* supports its artists by publishing commemorative pamphlets of their work on the night of the event. Please contact Rachel Levitsky if you would like to receive a catalog or hear more about our salons. *** Rachel Levitsky 458 Lincoln Place, #4B Brooklyn, NY 11238 http://www.durationpress.com/belladonna "Brother, if you don't mind, there is a cloud of glass coming at us, grab my hand, lets get the hell out of here." -Anonymous ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:24:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: po-biz news In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I saw the same sad news this weekend...was particularly alarmed by the NYT Magazine spread, which was really just an excuse for a fashion spread. They wrote that of course the writers hated being dressed up in fancy clothes--ahem! If they had called me, I would have been *delighted* to take free Prada clothing to appear in their spread! More importantly, was appalled by the same quote that Joe quoted: "most writers hate giving readings or being at readings." In what realm is this true? I love reading, and I love going to readings. In po-biz moments like these, I find it best to follow the model of friend and teacher Malena Morling, who writes with not a care in the world about publishing...she just refocuses on her work and her life, because that, of course, is where the real pleaure lies. Arielle > now i don't purport to be able to resolve with any > expediency the > disparities (anomalies?) attendant to these roughly > simultaneous, > uhm, happenings... but i do believe that for writers > or artists of > whatever persuasion to regard (1) through (5) in > mutually exclusive > terms might constitute something of a, well, a > miscalculation... > > best, > > joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:27:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Libbie Rifkin Subject: Re: po-biz news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For what it's worth, we might note that most of the writers pictured in = the NYT fashion spread were NOT poets. It seems to me that the business = of po-biz still isn't, and may never be, money. -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Greenberg [mailto:ariellecg@YAHOO.COM] Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 2:24 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: po-biz news I saw the same sad news this weekend...was particularly alarmed by the NYT Magazine spread, which was really just an excuse for a fashion spread. They wrote that of course the writers hated being dressed up in fancy clothes--ahem! If they had called me, I would have been *delighted* to take free Prada clothing to appear in their spread! More importantly, was appalled by the same quote that Joe quoted: "most writers hate giving readings or being at readings." In what realm is this true? I love reading, and I love going to readings. In po-biz moments like these, I find it best to follow the model of friend and teacher Malena Morling, who writes with not a care in the world about publishing...she just refocuses on her work and her life, because that, of course, is where the real pleaure lies. Arielle > now i don't purport to be able to resolve with any > expediency the > disparities (anomalies?) attendant to these roughly > simultaneous, > uhm, happenings... but i do believe that for writers > or artists of > whatever persuasion to regard (1) through (5) in > mutually exclusive > terms might constitute something of a, well, a > miscalculation... > > best, > > joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:16:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Baraka essays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed William J. Harris and I are editing a special issue of African American Review on Amiri Baraka -- We're looking for additional essays -- Any of y'all got one? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You made a mistake. You did something wrong. Now make another mistake, and do something right." --Sun Ra Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:27:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: note from Cydney Chadwick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cydney Chadwick was wondering if anyone knows of a good print-on-demand company whose output looks nearly as good as offset printing. If so, please contact aveclivres@yahoo.com. Many thanks, Cydney ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:30:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Roof Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ****************************************** ROOF BOOKS ANNOUNCES DOWNLOADABLE E-TEXTS ****************************************** Roof Books, one of the most respected American publishers of contemporary poetry and criticism, is pleased to offer ten of its titles in digital formats: five in Adobe eBook and five in HTML. Roof, with the support of NYSCA, asks you to look at these two sets of electronic format books to help us understand which format is most helpful to readers. ****************************************** ROOF eBOOKS ****************************************** The eBook is a true digital facsimile of the original printed versions. They have the "look and feel" of the bound edition, as well as bookmarking, text zoom and other features. Roof eBooks are available for the attractive sum of $5.00 through its newly renovated e-commerce web site _ http://www.roofbooks.com The following Roof titles are now available for downloading as Adobe eBooks: DEMOCRACY BOULEVARD, by Kit Robinson LOCAL HISTORY by Erica Hunt THREE BELL ZERO by Miles Champion N/O by Ron Silliman DOUBLED FLOWERING: From the Notebooks of Araki Yasusada NOTE: Before purchasing and downloading eBooks, you MUST download the free Adobe eBook Reader software at http://www.adobe.com/products/ebookreader/register.html -- eBook downloads require that the reader software be installed on your computer. ****************************************** ROOF BOOKS - HTML ****************************************** The following Roof titles are now available for viewing or downloading as HTML free of charge: KILDARE, by Stacy Doris GORGEOUS PLUNGE, by Michael Gottlieb PROTECTIVE IMMEDIACY, by Rod Smith THE FUTURE OF MEMORY, by Bob Perelman POETICS@, edited by Joel Kuszai These books are available as a free HTML download through the Electronic Poetry Center at SUNY Buffalo, the most widely visited literary site on the internet, at http://epc.buffalo.edu/presses/roof/ ****************************************** THE ROOF BOOKS CATALOG ****************************************** http://www.roofbooks.com contains the entire Roof Books catalog of bound poetry and criticism. Books may be purchased through the site's online shopping cart, which is processed by Small Press Distribution. We hope you enjoy these digital versions of our books. Please tell us what you think. Address your comments and questions to geck044@earthlink.net I hope these electronic texts are useful. James Sherry, Publisher ****************************************** This project has been made possible, in part, with support from the New York State Council on the Arts. The RoofBooks.com site was developed by GiantChair.com with the assistance of Marc Nasdor. Comments for EPC at: http://epc.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:16:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Popken Subject: save NPR! Comments: To: pppoetics@lists.colorado.edu, loadedword@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hey all. i know how everyone hates email from the list cluttering their boxes, but i think this is important. please look over the petition. thanks for your precious minutes. ************8 On NPR's Morning Edition last week, Nina Totenberg said that if the >Supreme Court supports Congress, it is in effect the end of the National >Public Radio (NPR), NEA & the Public Broadcasting System (PBS). PBS, >NPR and the arts are facing major cutbacks in funding. In spite of the >efforts of each station to reduce spending costs and streamline their >services, some government officials believe that the funding currently >going to these programs is too large a portion of funding for something >which is seen as not worthwhile. The only way that our representatives >can be aware of the base of support for PBS and funding for these types >of programs is by making our voices heard. > >Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends who believe >in what this stands for. This list will be forwarded to the President >and the Vice President of the United States. This petition is being >passed around the Internet. Please add your name to it so that funding >can, be maintained for NPR, PBS, & the NEA. > >HOW TO SIGN & FORWARD: IT'S EASY: >Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign and >forward to others to sign. DON'T WORRY ABOUT DUPLICATES. This is being >forwarded to several people at once to add their names to the petition. >It won't matter if many people receive the same list as the names are >being managed. This is for anyone who thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile >expenditure > of $1.12/year of their taxes, a petition follows. If you >sign, please forward on to others. If not, please don't kill it -send >it to the Email address listed here: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu If >you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th, etc., signer of this petition, >please forward a copy to: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu This way we >can keep track of the lists and organize them. > >NOTE: >It is preferable that you SELECT (highlight) the entirety of this letter >and then COPY it into a new outgoing message, rather than simply >forwarding it. In your new outgoing message, add your name to the >bottom >of the list, then send it on. Or if option is available, do a SEND AGAIN. > >851) Gertrude C Nuttman, Burlingame, CA 94010 >852) Claudette D. Schiratti, Shawnee, KS 66203 >853) Jean M. Dawson, Billings, MT 59102 >854) Nancy M. Skadden, Sturgeon Bay WI 54235 >854) Debra Skadden, Minneapolis, MN 55407 >855) Eileen M. Rowley, Mellenville, NY 12544 >856) Chris Fisk, Ballston Lake, N.Y. 12019 >857) Ronald Thomas, Leonia NJ >858) Thomas Hill, Cambridge, Ma. 02140. >859) Peter McKinney, Cambridge, MA 02138 >860) Laurence Sperry, Brighton, MA 02135 >861) Elizabeth Dowey, Somerville , MA 02144 >862) Bill Barbeau, Somerville, MA 02144 >863) Kathleen Schnaidt, Dorchester, MA 02125 >864) John Rich, Dorchester, MA 02125 >865) Amy Newell, Brookline, MA 02446 >866) John and Ellen Newell, West Newton, MA 02465 >867) Constance Congdon, Amherst,MA 01002 >868) Arthur Kopit, New York, NY 10011 >869) David Shire, Palisades, NY 10964 >870) Didi Conn, Palisades, NY 10964 >871) John Phillips, Burbank, CA. 91505 >872) Peter Van Norden, Sherman Oaks, CA. 91411 >873) Michael DeVries, South Pasadena, CA 91030 >874) Shannon C. Klasell, New York, NY 10036 >875) Theresa D. Irrera, Fresh Meadows, N.Y. 11366 >876) Heather M. Dominick, New York, NY 10012 >877) Melanie Gold, New York, NY 10024 >878) Jamie Winnick, New York 10023 >879) John Long, Torrington, CT 06790 >880) Margo Zelie, Torrington, CT 06790 >881) Michael Allain Torrington, CT 06790 >882) David Smolover, Lakeside, CT 06758 >883) Nathaniel Gunod, Northfield, CT >884) Stephen Aron, Mansfield, OH >885) Klondike Steadman >886) Steve Kostelnik >887) Will Riley, Boston, MA 02131 >888) Masumi Yoneyama, Somerville, MA 02143 >889) Sonja Lynne, Woodlyn, PA 19094 >890) Rhoda Scott N. Long Branch, NJ 07740 >891) Gordon Harris, Somerset, NJ 08873 >892) Augustine Amegadzie, Somerset, NJ 08873 >893) Bernard Amegadzie, Indianapolis, IN 46236 >894) Senyo Opong, Wilmington, DE 19808 >895) Concetta LaMarca, Wilmington, DE 19802 >896) Ellen Lebowitz. Newark, DE 19711 >897) Dave Johnsrud Paramus, NJ 07652 >898) Katherine Richardson, Amherst, NH 03031 >899) Dr. Natacha Villamia Sochat, Amherst, NH 03031 >900) Dr. Michael Sochat, Amherst, NH 03031 >901) Jack Nunberg, Missoula, MT 59802 >902) Meg Trahey, Missoula, MT 59802 >903) Lishan Su, Chaple Hill, NC 27516 >904) Yan Li, Chapel Hill, NC 27516 >905) Tian Xu, New Haven, CT 06510 >906) Peter Tattersall, New Haven, CT 06510 >907) Ian Maxwell, Denver, CO 80207 >908) Dusty Miller, Seattle, WA 98105 >909) Sandy Haight, Seattle, WA 98112 >910) Kaaren Janssen, Guilford, CT 06437 >911) Ira Mellman, Guilford, CT 06437 >912) Michael Bobker, Brooklyn, NY 11238 >913) Marta Panero, Brookly, NY 11238 >914) Guido De Marco, Brooklyn, NY 11201 >915) Josh Bivens, Brooklyn, NY 11205 >916) George S. Chase IV, New York, NY 10009 >917) Nina Morrison, New York, NY 10028 >918) Joe Schiappa, Huntington, CT 06484 >919) Shira Piven >920) Adam McKay >921) Lisa Rosman, Brooklyn, NY 11238 >922) David Evans, Brooklyn, NY 11211 >923) Michelle Caulfield, Brooklyn NY 11238 >924) Michael La Fon, Brooklyn NY 11238 >925) Hildur Lindgren Carlen, Brooklyn NY 11201 >926) Conrad Carlen, Brooklyn NY 11201 >927) Jessica Gohlke, Brooklyn, Ny 11205 >928) Madelon Sprengnether, Minneapolis MN 55414 >929) Tom Clayton, St. Paul, MN 55104 >930) Judith Martin, Minneapolis, MN. 55401 >931) Patricia McDonnell, Curator, Weisman Art Museum, >Minneapolis, Minnesota >932) Megan Fox, New York, NY 10003 >933) Elizabeth Glassman, New York, NY 10016 >934) Sarah Burt, Santa Fe 87505 >935) Rita L Sooby, Lawrence, KS 66046 >936) Randy Blom, Long Beach, CA. 90802 >937) William Richardson, Covington, GA 30016 >938) Robert Halcums, Covington, GA 30016 >939) Vicki Lange, Alpharetta, GA 30022 >940) Sue Alexander, Novato, CA. 94947 >941) Genevieve Vierling, Point Reyes Station, CA 94956 >942) Nancy Fischer, Boca Raton, FL 33487 >943) Chet Meeks, Albany, NY 12208 >944) Ann Tollefson, Casper, WY 826011 >945) Lew Bagby, Laramie, WY 82072 >946) Stephen E. Williams , Laramie, WY 82072 >947) Wendy S. Hutchinson, Gillette, WY 82717 >948) Roy S. Liedtke, Gillette, WY 82718 >949) Claire Dunne, Manderson, WY 82432 >950) Susan M. Gabriel, Brooklyn, NY 11218 >951) Jessica Katz, Brooklyn, NY 11215 >952) Joan Parry, Manhasset, NY 11030 >953) Maureen Rothschild DiTata, Rockville Centre, New >York,11570 >954) Joy Kotrch, Brooklyn, New York >955) Celeste Alexander, New York, NY 10024 >956) Charlotte Surkin, New York, NY 10011 >957) Stephanie Low, New York, NY 10029 >958) Phyllis Fay Farmer >960) Katherine Harris, New York, NY >961) Jacqueline S. Harris, Wilmington, DE 19803 >962) Jane Strobach >963) Susan Radovich >964) Andrea Strobach, Knapp, WI >965) Gail Tourville, Menomonie,Wi. >966) Cat Thompson, Hudson, WI >967) Mary Bendtsen, St. Paul, MN >968) Patrick Rivard, New Brighton MN >969) Katie Rivard, New Brighton MN >970) Kitty Schneider, Minneapolis, MN >971) Pamela McInnes, St. Paul, MN >972) Keith McInnes, Newton, MA >973) Patricia McCaffrey, Newton, MA >974) Susan Almquist, Lexington MA >975) Robert L. Poley, Boulder CO >976) Karen Sharp, Boulder, CO >977) Gretchen Colbert, Lakewood, CO >978) Leah Hamilton, Littleton, CO >979) Mike Weiker, Littleton, CO >980) Carole Tillotson, Evergreen, CO >981) Emery Gordon, El Granada, Ca >982) Chris Madison, El Granada, Ca >983) Tamsin Orion, San Francisco, CA 94103 >984) Marianne Gammon >985) Sam Gammon >986) Sarah Irwin, Austin, TX. 78736 >987) Shake Russell, Austin, TX. 78736 >988) Victoria Harper, Houston, TX 77006 >989) Julie Robertson, San Angelo, TX 76904 >990)Renee French, Austin, Texas 78746 >991) Valerie R. Zeller, Leander, TX 78641 >992) Linda Butler, OD, Freehold, NJ 07728 >993) Rolande Kelting, Enfield, CT 06082 >994) Lee Kelting, Tolland, CT 06084 >995) Carl Fossum, W. Simsbury, CT 06092 >996) Debbie Stein, Rockville, MD 20852 >997) Bill and Dorothy Grobman >998 Milton and Hannah Kaplan >999) Ben and Jeanne Milder >1000) Roma and Raymond Wittcoff, Scottsdale, AZ 85258 >1001) Colin Graham, Saint Louis, Missouri >1002) Cynthia Lawrence-Calkins, Minnesota >1003) Adrienne Forstner-Barthell, Phoenix, AZ 85022 >1004) Barbara Milemore, Hampton Bays, NY 11946 >1005) C. Czechowicz, New York City 10016 >1006) Adina Schwartz, New York City 10012 >1007) James Fyfe, Princeton NJ 08540 >1008) Sheila Bodner, Arlington, VA 22201 >1009) Margo Dunlavey, Rockville, MD 20852 >1010) Phyllis Ehrlich, Huntington Beach, CA.92649 >1011) Simon Ehrlich, Huntington Beach, CA. 92649 >1012) Virginia H. Laddey, Irvine, CA 92612 >1013) Jane Brickner, Santa Fe, NM 87501 >1015) Kirk Ellis, Santa fe, NM 87508 >1016) Sheila Ellis, Santa Fe, NM 87508 >1017) Lili Taylor, New York 10014 >1018) Nina Gordon, Chicago 60610 >1019) Heather Whinna, Chicago 60618 >1020) Damian Rogers, New York 10003 >1021) Nathaniel Penn, Brooklyn, NY >1022) Harry Penn, M.D. Cambridge, MA >1023) Joseph Schwartz, M.D., Newton, MA >1024) Alford H. Lessner, Newburgh, NY >1025) Joanne Gibson,Arlington, VA. >1026) Diane Alington-Leaf, PhD, Princeton, NJ >1027) Judith M. Stern, PhD, North Brunswick, NJ >1028) Linda B. Pawelchak, Princeton, NJ >1029) Katherine Evancie, Kew Gardens, NY >1030) Anne Graydon, New York, NY >1031) Michael Gould, Washington, D.C. 20009 >1032) Laurie Richardson, Washington, DC 20008 >1033) Friedrich Peloschek, Washington, DC >1034) Maria Nagorski, Washington DC 20008 >1035) Marsha Slater, Arlington VA 22202 >1036) James A. Slater, Arlington, VA 22202 >1037) Kathleen West, DrPH, Santa Monica. CA 90405 >1038) Deborah Werner, Topanga, CA 90290 >1039) Leon Bisquera, North Hollywood, CA 91607 >1040) Larry Poindexter, Los Angeles, CA 90027 >1041) Michelle Bonfils, Monrovia, CA >1042) Rebecca Kramer, Los Angeles, CA >1043) Harley Cross, New York, NY 10009 >1044) Patrick Soluri, Louisville, KY 40208 >1045) Michael Bearden, New York, NY.10552 >1046> Jeffrey Mironov, New York 10024 >1047) Jon Cobert >1048) May Pang, Pomona, NY 10970 >1049) James Bacon, Lodi, CA >1050) Mark Vidito, Burbank, CA 91501 >1051) Teddy Zambetti, Bronx, NY 10463 >1052) Chris Ferrone, Chatham, NY 12037 >1053) Mike McTeigue, Pagosa Springs, CO 81147 >1054) Ben Junta, Portola Valley, CA 94028 >1055) GretchenYoung, Fort Dauphin, Madagascar 614 >1056) Allyson Joye, Davis, CA 95616 >1057) Amy Little, Redwood City, CA 94063 >1058) Heidi Pomfret, Longmont, CO 80501 >1059) Roxaneh Khorsand, Boulder, CO 80302 >1060) Scott Regenthal, Boulder, CO 80302 >1061) Nicole Dampeer, Whittier, CA 90608 1062)Kelly P. Hayden Boulder, CO 80302 1063) Ben Popken, Boulder CO 80309 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:22:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: save NPR! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This has been going around the web for, I think, a couple of years now. Nice little bit of hysteria (=it's a hoax). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Popken" To: Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 7:16 PM Subject: save NPR! > hey all. i know how everyone hates email from the list cluttering their > boxes, but i think this is important. please look over the petition. > thanks for your precious minutes. > > ************8 > On NPR's Morning Edition last week, Nina Totenberg said that if the > >Supreme Court supports Congress, it is in effect the end of the National > >Public Radio (NPR), NEA & the Public Broadcasting System (PBS). PBS, > >NPR and the arts are facing major cutbacks in funding. In spite of the > >efforts of each station to reduce spending costs and streamline their > >services, some government officials believe that the funding currently > >going to these programs is too large a portion of funding for something > >which is seen as not worthwhile. The only way that our representatives > >can be aware of the base of support for PBS and funding for these types > >of programs is by making our voices heard. > > > >Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends who believe > >in what this stands for. This list will be forwarded to the President > >and the Vice President of the United States. This petition is being > >passed around the Internet. Please add your name to it so that funding > >can, be maintained for NPR, PBS, & the NEA. > > > >HOW TO SIGN & FORWARD: IT'S EASY: > >Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign and > >forward to others to sign. DON'T WORRY ABOUT DUPLICATES. This is being > >forwarded to several people at once to add their names to the petition. > >It won't matter if many people receive the same list as the names are > >being managed. This is for anyone who thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile > >expenditure > of $1.12/year of their taxes, a petition follows. If you > >sign, please forward on to others. If not, please don't kill it -send > >it to the Email address listed here: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu If > >you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th, etc., signer of this petition, > >please forward a copy to: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu This way we > >can keep track of the lists and organize them. > > > >NOTE: > >It is preferable that you SELECT (highlight) the entirety of this letter > >and then COPY it into a new outgoing message, rather than simply > >forwarding it. In your new outgoing message, add your name to the > >bottom > >of the list, then send it on. Or if option is available, do a SEND AGAIN. > > > >851) Gertrude C Nuttman, Burlingame, CA 94010 > >852) Claudette D. Schiratti, Shawnee, KS 66203 > >853) Jean M. Dawson, Billings, MT 59102 > >854) Nancy M. Skadden, Sturgeon Bay WI 54235 > >854) Debra Skadden, Minneapolis, MN 55407 > >855) Eileen M. Rowley, Mellenville, NY 12544 > >856) Chris Fisk, Ballston Lake, N.Y. 12019 > >857) Ronald Thomas, Leonia NJ > >858) Thomas Hill, Cambridge, Ma. 02140. > >859) Peter McKinney, Cambridge, MA 02138 > >860) Laurence Sperry, Brighton, MA 02135 > >861) Elizabeth Dowey, Somerville , MA 02144 > >862) Bill Barbeau, Somerville, MA 02144 > >863) Kathleen Schnaidt, Dorchester, MA 02125 > >864) John Rich, Dorchester, MA 02125 > >865) Amy Newell, Brookline, MA 02446 > >866) John and Ellen Newell, West Newton, MA 02465 > >867) Constance Congdon, Amherst,MA 01002 > >868) Arthur Kopit, New York, NY 10011 > >869) David Shire, Palisades, NY 10964 > >870) Didi Conn, Palisades, NY 10964 > >871) John Phillips, Burbank, CA. 91505 > >872) Peter Van Norden, Sherman Oaks, CA. 91411 > >873) Michael DeVries, South Pasadena, CA 91030 > >874) Shannon C. Klasell, New York, NY 10036 > >875) Theresa D. Irrera, Fresh Meadows, N.Y. 11366 > >876) Heather M. Dominick, New York, NY 10012 > >877) Melanie Gold, New York, NY 10024 > >878) Jamie Winnick, New York 10023 > >879) John Long, Torrington, CT 06790 > >880) Margo Zelie, Torrington, CT 06790 > >881) Michael Allain Torrington, CT 06790 > >882) David Smolover, Lakeside, CT 06758 > >883) Nathaniel Gunod, Northfield, CT > >884) Stephen Aron, Mansfield, OH > >885) Klondike Steadman > >886) Steve Kostelnik > >887) Will Riley, Boston, MA 02131 > >888) Masumi Yoneyama, Somerville, MA 02143 > >889) Sonja Lynne, Woodlyn, PA 19094 > >890) Rhoda Scott N. Long Branch, NJ 07740 > >891) Gordon Harris, Somerset, NJ 08873 > >892) Augustine Amegadzie, Somerset, NJ 08873 > >893) Bernard Amegadzie, Indianapolis, IN 46236 > >894) Senyo Opong, Wilmington, DE 19808 > >895) Concetta LaMarca, Wilmington, DE 19802 > >896) Ellen Lebowitz. Newark, DE 19711 > >897) Dave Johnsrud Paramus, NJ 07652 > >898) Katherine Richardson, Amherst, NH 03031 > >899) Dr. Natacha Villamia Sochat, Amherst, NH 03031 > >900) Dr. Michael Sochat, Amherst, NH 03031 > >901) Jack Nunberg, Missoula, MT 59802 > >902) Meg Trahey, Missoula, MT 59802 > >903) Lishan Su, Chaple Hill, NC 27516 > >904) Yan Li, Chapel Hill, NC 27516 > >905) Tian Xu, New Haven, CT 06510 > >906) Peter Tattersall, New Haven, CT 06510 > >907) Ian Maxwell, Denver, CO 80207 > >908) Dusty Miller, Seattle, WA 98105 > >909) Sandy Haight, Seattle, WA 98112 > >910) Kaaren Janssen, Guilford, CT 06437 > >911) Ira Mellman, Guilford, CT 06437 > >912) Michael Bobker, Brooklyn, NY 11238 > >913) Marta Panero, Brookly, NY 11238 > >914) Guido De Marco, Brooklyn, NY 11201 > >915) Josh Bivens, Brooklyn, NY 11205 > >916) George S. Chase IV, New York, NY 10009 > >917) Nina Morrison, New York, NY 10028 > >918) Joe Schiappa, Huntington, CT 06484 > >919) Shira Piven > >920) Adam McKay > >921) Lisa Rosman, Brooklyn, NY 11238 > >922) David Evans, Brooklyn, NY 11211 > >923) Michelle Caulfield, Brooklyn NY 11238 > >924) Michael La Fon, Brooklyn NY 11238 > >925) Hildur Lindgren Carlen, Brooklyn NY 11201 > >926) Conrad Carlen, Brooklyn NY 11201 > >927) Jessica Gohlke, Brooklyn, Ny 11205 > >928) Madelon Sprengnether, Minneapolis MN 55414 > >929) Tom Clayton, St. Paul, MN 55104 > >930) Judith Martin, Minneapolis, MN. 55401 > >931) Patricia McDonnell, Curator, Weisman Art Museum, > >Minneapolis, Minnesota > >932) Megan Fox, New York, NY 10003 > >933) Elizabeth Glassman, New York, NY 10016 > >934) Sarah Burt, Santa Fe 87505 > >935) Rita L Sooby, Lawrence, KS 66046 > >936) Randy Blom, Long Beach, CA. 90802 > >937) William Richardson, Covington, GA 30016 > >938) Robert Halcums, Covington, GA 30016 > >939) Vicki Lange, Alpharetta, GA 30022 > >940) Sue Alexander, Novato, CA. 94947 > >941) Genevieve Vierling, Point Reyes Station, CA 94956 > >942) Nancy Fischer, Boca Raton, FL 33487 > >943) Chet Meeks, Albany, NY 12208 > >944) Ann Tollefson, Casper, WY 826011 > >945) Lew Bagby, Laramie, WY 82072 > >946) Stephen E. Williams , Laramie, WY 82072 > >947) Wendy S. Hutchinson, Gillette, WY 82717 > >948) Roy S. Liedtke, Gillette, WY 82718 > >949) Claire Dunne, Manderson, WY 82432 > >950) Susan M. Gabriel, Brooklyn, NY 11218 > >951) Jessica Katz, Brooklyn, NY 11215 > >952) Joan Parry, Manhasset, NY 11030 > >953) Maureen Rothschild DiTata, Rockville Centre, New > >York,11570 > >954) Joy Kotrch, Brooklyn, New York > >955) Celeste Alexander, New York, NY 10024 > >956) Charlotte Surkin, New York, NY 10011 > >957) Stephanie Low, New York, NY 10029 > >958) Phyllis Fay Farmer > >960) Katherine Harris, New York, NY > >961) Jacqueline S. Harris, Wilmington, DE 19803 > >962) Jane Strobach > >963) Susan Radovich > >964) Andrea Strobach, Knapp, WI > >965) Gail Tourville, Menomonie,Wi. > >966) Cat Thompson, Hudson, WI > >967) Mary Bendtsen, St. Paul, MN > >968) Patrick Rivard, New Brighton MN > >969) Katie Rivard, New Brighton MN > >970) Kitty Schneider, Minneapolis, MN > >971) Pamela McInnes, St. Paul, MN > >972) Keith McInnes, Newton, MA > >973) Patricia McCaffrey, Newton, MA > >974) Susan Almquist, Lexington MA > >975) Robert L. Poley, Boulder CO > >976) Karen Sharp, Boulder, CO > >977) Gretchen Colbert, Lakewood, CO > >978) Leah Hamilton, Littleton, CO > >979) Mike Weiker, Littleton, CO > >980) Carole Tillotson, Evergreen, CO > >981) Emery Gordon, El Granada, Ca > >982) Chris Madison, El Granada, Ca > >983) Tamsin Orion, San Francisco, CA 94103 > >984) Marianne Gammon > >985) Sam Gammon > >986) Sarah Irwin, Austin, TX. 78736 > >987) Shake Russell, Austin, TX. 78736 > >988) Victoria Harper, Houston, TX 77006 > >989) Julie Robertson, San Angelo, TX 76904 > >990)Renee French, Austin, Texas 78746 > >991) Valerie R. Zeller, Leander, TX 78641 > >992) Linda Butler, OD, Freehold, NJ 07728 > >993) Rolande Kelting, Enfield, CT 06082 > >994) Lee Kelting, Tolland, CT 06084 > >995) Carl Fossum, W. Simsbury, CT 06092 > >996) Debbie Stein, Rockville, MD 20852 > >997) Bill and Dorothy Grobman > >998 Milton and Hannah Kaplan > >999) Ben and Jeanne Milder > >1000) Roma and Raymond Wittcoff, Scottsdale, AZ 85258 > >1001) Colin Graham, Saint Louis, Missouri > >1002) Cynthia Lawrence-Calkins, Minnesota > >1003) Adrienne Forstner-Barthell, Phoenix, AZ 85022 > >1004) Barbara Milemore, Hampton Bays, NY 11946 > >1005) C. Czechowicz, New York City 10016 > >1006) Adina Schwartz, New York City 10012 > >1007) James Fyfe, Princeton NJ 08540 > >1008) Sheila Bodner, Arlington, VA 22201 > >1009) Margo Dunlavey, Rockville, MD 20852 > >1010) Phyllis Ehrlich, Huntington Beach, CA.92649 > >1011) Simon Ehrlich, Huntington Beach, CA. 92649 > >1012) Virginia H. Laddey, Irvine, CA 92612 > >1013) Jane Brickner, Santa Fe, NM 87501 > >1015) Kirk Ellis, Santa fe, NM 87508 > >1016) Sheila Ellis, Santa Fe, NM 87508 > >1017) Lili Taylor, New York 10014 > >1018) Nina Gordon, Chicago 60610 > >1019) Heather Whinna, Chicago 60618 > >1020) Damian Rogers, New York 10003 > >1021) Nathaniel Penn, Brooklyn, NY > >1022) Harry Penn, M.D. Cambridge, MA > >1023) Joseph Schwartz, M.D., Newton, MA > >1024) Alford H. Lessner, Newburgh, NY > >1025) Joanne Gibson,Arlington, VA. > >1026) Diane Alington-Leaf, PhD, Princeton, NJ > >1027) Judith M. Stern, PhD, North Brunswick, NJ > >1028) Linda B. Pawelchak, Princeton, NJ > >1029) Katherine Evancie, Kew Gardens, NY > >1030) Anne Graydon, New York, NY > >1031) Michael Gould, Washington, D.C. 20009 > >1032) Laurie Richardson, Washington, DC 20008 > >1033) Friedrich Peloschek, Washington, DC > >1034) Maria Nagorski, Washington DC 20008 > >1035) Marsha Slater, Arlington VA 22202 > >1036) James A. Slater, Arlington, VA 22202 > >1037) Kathleen West, DrPH, Santa Monica. CA 90405 > >1038) Deborah Werner, Topanga, CA 90290 > >1039) Leon Bisquera, North Hollywood, CA 91607 > >1040) Larry Poindexter, Los Angeles, CA 90027 > >1041) Michelle Bonfils, Monrovia, CA > >1042) Rebecca Kramer, Los Angeles, CA > >1043) Harley Cross, New York, NY 10009 > >1044) Patrick Soluri, Louisville, KY 40208 > >1045) Michael Bearden, New York, NY.10552 > >1046> Jeffrey Mironov, New York 10024 > >1047) Jon Cobert > >1048) May Pang, Pomona, NY 10970 > >1049) James Bacon, Lodi, CA > >1050) Mark Vidito, Burbank, CA 91501 > >1051) Teddy Zambetti, Bronx, NY 10463 > >1052) Chris Ferrone, Chatham, NY 12037 > >1053) Mike McTeigue, Pagosa Springs, CO 81147 > >1054) Ben Junta, Portola Valley, CA 94028 > >1055) GretchenYoung, Fort Dauphin, Madagascar 614 > >1056) Allyson Joye, Davis, CA 95616 > >1057) Amy Little, Redwood City, CA 94063 > >1058) Heidi Pomfret, Longmont, CO 80501 > >1059) Roxaneh Khorsand, Boulder, CO 80302 > > >1060) Scott Regenthal, Boulder, CO 80302 > > >1061) Nicole Dampeer, Whittier, CA 90608 > 1062)Kelly P. Hayden Boulder, CO 80302 > 1063) Ben Popken, Boulder CO 80309 > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:56:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UGA Lanier Speakers Series Subject: Re: po-biz news In-Reply-To: <20020408182416.56922.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii not even a token female in the photo feature. i suppose that would have to have been about women writers rather than Writers. blah blah blow. Arielle Greenberg wrote: I saw the same sad news this weekend...was particularly alarmed by the NYT Magazine spread, which was really just an excuse for a fashion spread. They wrote that of course the writers hated being dressed up in fancy clothes--ahem! If they had called me, I would have been *delighted* to take free Prada clothing to appear in their spread! More importantly, was appalled by the same quote that Joe quoted: "most writers hate giving readings or being at readings." In what realm is this true? I love reading, and I love going to readings. In po-biz moments like these, I find it best to follow the model of friend and teacher Malena Morling, who writes with not a care in the world about publishing...she just refocuses on her work and her life, because that, of course, is where the real pleaure lies. Arielle > now i don't purport to be able to resolve with any > expediency the > disparities (anomalies?) attendant to these roughly > simultaneous, > uhm, happenings... but i do believe that for writers > or artists of > whatever persuasion to regard (1) through (5) in > mutually exclusive > terms might constitute something of a, well, a > miscalculation... > > best, > > joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:53:22 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: :Refugee Camp In Jenin, Thirty-Three Palestinians Murdered in Less than Twelve Hours MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Israel Committing An Ongoing Massacre in Jenin Thirty-Three Palestinians Murdered in Less than Twelve Hours 6 April 2002 Palestine Media Center - PMC http://www.palestine-pmc.com The Palestine Red Crescent Society confirmed today that Israeli occupation forces have killed at least thirty Palestinian civilians in Jenin's refugee camp today. Eyewitnesses inside the camp confirm that Israeli bulldozers have leveled the refugee camp's front row homes while the families were still inside. While the confirmed thirty victims were killed in one of the camp's street, the total number of casualties in the camp is estimated to be at least 100. Many victims are buried under the rubble while scores others have been torn to pieces by the exploding tank shells; dozens others have bled to death inside their homes and in front of their traumatized family members. Six Palestinians were confirmed killed in the camp during the early hours of the morning and identified. The rest of the victims remain unidentified while the number of injuries has been impossible to confirm, but is feared to be in the hundreds. Since the early hours of the morning, Israeli Apache helicopters and tanks have been bombarding the densely populated refugee camp, where at least 150,00 people reside in an area that barely reaches 1 square kilometer. In fact, for the first time in its history of aggression, Israeli F-16 fighter jets have bombarded the Jenin refugee camp, in an offensive clearly meant to exact the maximum number of civilian casualties. Official sources estimate that in the past two days, the Jenin refugee camp has been bombarded with more missiles and tank shells than all those Israeli occupation forces have used against Palestinian targets in the past year and a half. Israeli occupation forces continue to adamantly refuse to allow any ambulance from reaching the refugee camp, even to collect the bodies. Two days ago, Israeli bulldozers destroyed a make-shift mass grave that the camp 's residents had made to bury their loved ones during the last Israeli invasion in February. The horrific scene resulting from the destruction was that of bodies removed from their graves and strewn across the street. Eyewitness accounts also confirm that Israeli tanks patrolling the street have crushed a number of bodies that medical crews have been unable to collect. In a telephone interview with Al-Jazeera television, Umm Jihad, a camp resident, described the desperate situation; "The shelling has not stopped. We are all cornered in our homes, unable to sleep, move, or help those who are pleading for help as they bleed in the camp's streets. The Israeli bulldozers are leveling homes over their residents' heads and without a prior warning. When we called health officials to ask for help, we were informed that the occupation soldiers confiscated the ambulances' keys in order to debilitate them. Our situation is one of indescribable suffering and desperation for no one is intervening to save our children, who are dying in front of our own helpless eyes". In an unprecedented breach of human rights, Israeli occupation soldiers announced in the afternoon that they would cease their fire in order to allow the women and elderly to get water only to arrest them and use them as human shields later on. Since the residents have had no water for days, a number of women and elderly men came out of their homes. However, as they reached the camp's entrance, where Israeli tanks and personnel carriers are, they were all detained. Shortly after that, residents reported hearing the Israeli forces calling out on the microphone to the resistance fighters and security officers to surrender in order to save the lives of the detained civilians. The detainees were seen strapped to the tanks and personnel carriers, which resumed their bombardment campaign shortly after that call for surrender.. Strikingly, the Israeli officer previously heading the Jenin reoccupation offensive was reprimanded and removed from his duty after having failed to take over the camp in the past four days. Currently, Shaul Mofaz, Israel's Chief of Staff, heads the brutal operation personally. Palestinian officials have thus held him directly responsible for the atrocities taking place in the Jenin refugee camp. Jenin's three humble hospitals have confirmed that since today, they have run out of fuel, needed to keep the electricity generators running after Israeli occupation forces plunged the city into total darkness four days ago. The hospitals have also run out of water. As always, times of war and unbounded devastation bring about the most extraordinary acts of courage and ingenuity. Reports from Jenin's Al-Razi Hospital confirm that a doctor was successful in conducting life saving brain surgery to Burhan Samir Burhan, who was critically injured in the head. Surprisingly, the doctor, who was not specialized in such complicated surgeries, concluded the operation successfully through the help of a specialized doctor in Ramallah's Public Hospital, who was on the phone with him throughout the operation! Since yesterday, the Palestinian leadership has warned repeatedly, through numerous appeals, of a possible second Sabra and Shatila massacre, only this time it would be in Jenin. "The Palestinian leadership urgently appeals to the international community and the Arab leaders to immediately intervene and help save the residents of the Jenin refugee camp for they have been the victims of a brutal war campaign, lead personally by Israel's Chief of Staff, Shaul Mofaz", read a leadership statement. It added, "We hold the international community responsible for delaying any intervention that could spare the refugee camp's residents from a sure massacre". So far, no international party has intervened to stop the ongoing massacre. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:01:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Michael & Jason Read at Beat Fest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Broder Jason Schneiderman And Other Poetry Series Hosts Warm up for Beat Fest 2002 at the Knitting Factory on April 13th from 6:00 to 7:00 PM The Knitting Factory is located at 74 Leonard St between Church and Broadway BEAT FEST Saturday, April 13, 2002 TICKETS: ADV $13.00; DOS $15.00 DJ Spooky , Amiri Baraka , Carl Hancock Rux Bear witness as the old master meets the heir apparent, as the cauldron is stirred by the beat mixologist of his generation. Amiri Baraka rose to prominence as radical poet and playwright Leroi Jones, publishing controversial texts in the 60s that proved prophetic. Among his many accolades, he is the winner of the PEN/Faulker Award, and the founder of Totem Press in 1958, which first published works by Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac. Carl Hancock Rux was named by The New York Times to be "one of 30 artists under 30 most likely to influence culture in the next 30 years." It states, "A poet, novelist, secular preacher, and hip-hop provocateur, Carl Hancock Rux always thrills with his incendiary shows." Their collaborator for the evening, DJ Spooky aka That Subliminal Kid, bridges the gap between downtown experimentalism and hip-hop culture. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 22:33:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII == recursive coding no end to circuitry (the only probability is disease) == two days ago had a panic attack, ended up at baptist hospital for two days, system checked ok == 7 electrocardiogram 12 blood pressure == 2 nuclear medicine 3 x-ray == stress test == pulse cardiac breath monitoring = blood enzyme tests == you can set off alarms == hold your breath == switch cables == attach to inside of mouth == then back to everglades late-night with flash-light and camera == then then == he is "a" == a says == kill all religion. destroy all temple. destroy all holy city. kill all priest. worry lama. hunt rabbi. kill shaman. kill all grand synagogue wailing wall shrine mosque. destroy all cathedral. destroy all church. survive. believe nothing. do not listen. do not order. == says == i have a new lease on life == says everything different. == bring light explode in sky == says look == what will be different here == says look == had it all figured out == writing so important == now writing nothing == says look at frontporch backporch == back in dawn-dusk day reclining == says look. will recline all time now. == so relax. == says they will fight their own fights. == she says "they will do what they will do." == look he says. look. he says look. == they look at all the many people. recursive coding no end to circuitry (the only probability is disease) _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 23:36:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Michael Gottlieb and Jordan Davies at Double Happiness - NYC (FWD) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael Gottlieb and Jordan Davis Reading in NYC Michael Gottlieb and Jordan Davis will be reading at Double Happiness this Saturday April 13, 4:15 pm. April 13. Jordan Davis is an editor of The Hat, a frequent contributor to the Poetry Project Newsletter, and the author of a dozen chapbooks, most recently _Yeah, No_ (Detour) and _A Winter Magazine_ (Situations). The Segue series at Double Happiness has long been Michael Gottlieb's favorite series. Although now that the bartender seems to know what he is going to order before he opens his mouth, he's not so sure. The author of ten books including recently, _Gorgeous Plunge_ from Roof Books, his newest title, _Careering Obloquy_, is due out from Other Publications this spring. Double Happiness is located at 173 Mott St., just south of Broome. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:57:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Popken Subject: Re: save NPR! In-Reply-To: <000d01c1df54$4fe21cb0$aa0d0e44@vaio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My neophyte bad. --- Duration Press wrote: > This has been going around the web for, I think, a couple of years now. Nice > little bit of hysteria (=it's a hoax). > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Popken" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 7:16 PM > Subject: save NPR! > > > > hey all. i know how everyone hates email from the list cluttering their > > boxes, but i think this is important. please look over the petition. > > thanks for your precious minutes. > > > > ************8 > > On NPR's Morning Edition last week, Nina Totenberg said that if the > > >Supreme Court supports Congress, it is in effect the end of the National > > >Public Radio (NPR), NEA & the Public Broadcasting System (PBS). PBS, > > >NPR and the arts are facing major cutbacks in funding. In spite of the > > >efforts of each station to reduce spending costs and streamline their > > >services, some government officials believe that the funding currently > > >going to these programs is too large a portion of funding for something > > >which is seen as not worthwhile. The only way that our representatives > > >can be aware of the base of support for PBS and funding for these types > > >of programs is by making our voices heard. > > > > > >Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends who believe > > >in what this stands for. This list will be forwarded to the President > > >and the Vice President of the United States. This petition is being > > >passed around the Internet. Please add your name to it so that funding > > >can, be maintained for NPR, PBS, & the NEA. > > > > > >HOW TO SIGN & FORWARD: IT'S EASY: > > >Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign and > > >forward to others to sign. DON'T WORRY ABOUT DUPLICATES. This is being > > >forwarded to several people at once to add their names to the petition. > > >It won't matter if many people receive the same list as the names are > > >being managed. This is for anyone who thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile > > >expenditure > of $1.12/year of their taxes, a petition follows. If you > > >sign, please forward on to others. If not, please don't kill it -send > > >it to the Email address listed here: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu If > > >you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th, etc., signer of this petition, > > >please forward a copy to: wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu This way we > > >can keep track of the lists and organize them. > > > > > >NOTE: > > >It is preferable that you SELECT (highlight) the entirety of this letter > > >and then COPY it into a new outgoing message, rather than simply > > >forwarding it. In your new outgoing message, add your name to the > > >bottom > > >of the list, then send it on. Or if option is available, do a SEND AGAIN. > > > > > >851) Gertrude C Nuttman, Burlingame, CA 94010 > > >852) Claudette D. Schiratti, Shawnee, KS 66203 > > >853) Jean M. Dawson, Billings, MT 59102 > > >854) Nancy M. Skadden, Sturgeon Bay WI 54235 > > >854) Debra Skadden, Minneapolis, MN 55407 > > >855) Eileen M. Rowley, Mellenville, NY 12544 > > >856) Chris Fisk, Ballston Lake, N.Y. 12019 > > >857) Ronald Thomas, Leonia NJ > > >858) Thomas Hill, Cambridge, Ma. 02140. > > >859) Peter McKinney, Cambridge, MA 02138 > > >860) Laurence Sperry, Brighton, MA 02135 > > >861) Elizabeth Dowey, Somerville , MA 02144 > > >862) Bill Barbeau, Somerville, MA 02144 > > >863) Kathleen Schnaidt, Dorchester, MA 02125 > > >864) John Rich, Dorchester, MA 02125 > > >865) Amy Newell, Brookline, MA 02446 > > >866) John and Ellen Newell, West Newton, MA 02465 > > >867) Constance Congdon, Amherst,MA 01002 > > >868) Arthur Kopit, New York, NY 10011 > > >869) David Shire, Palisades, NY 10964 > > >870) Didi Conn, Palisades, NY 10964 > > >871) John Phillips, Burbank, CA. 91505 > > >872) Peter Van Norden, Sherman Oaks, CA. 91411 > > >873) Michael DeVries, South Pasadena, CA 91030 > > >874) Shannon C. Klasell, New York, NY 10036 > > >875) Theresa D. Irrera, Fresh Meadows, N.Y. 11366 > > >876) Heather M. Dominick, New York, NY 10012 > > >877) Melanie Gold, New York, NY 10024 > > >878) Jamie Winnick, New York 10023 > > >879) John Long, Torrington, CT 06790 > > >880) Margo Zelie, Torrington, CT 06790 > > >881) Michael Allain Torrington, CT 06790 > > >882) David Smolover, Lakeside, CT 06758 > > >883) Nathaniel Gunod, Northfield, CT > > >884) Stephen Aron, Mansfield, OH > > >885) Klondike Steadman > > >886) Steve Kostelnik > > >887) Will Riley, Boston, MA 02131 > > >888) Masumi Yoneyama, Somerville, MA 02143 > > >889) Sonja Lynne, Woodlyn, PA 19094 > > >890) Rhoda Scott N. Long Branch, NJ 07740 > > >891) Gordon Harris, Somerset, NJ 08873 > > >892) Augustine Amegadzie, Somerset, NJ 08873 > > >893) Bernard Amegadzie, Indianapolis, IN 46236 > > >894) Senyo Opong, Wilmington, DE 19808 > > >895) Concetta LaMarca, Wilmington, DE 19802 > > >896) Ellen Lebowitz. Newark, DE 19711 > > >897) Dave Johnsrud Paramus, NJ 07652 > > >898) Katherine Richardson, Amherst, NH 03031 > > >899) Dr. Natacha Villamia Sochat, Amherst, NH 03031 > > >900) Dr. Michael Sochat, Amherst, NH 03031 > > >901) Jack Nunberg, Missoula, MT 59802 > > >902) Meg Trahey, Missoula, MT 59802 > > >903) Lishan Su, Chaple Hill, NC 27516 > > >904) Yan Li, Chapel Hill, NC 27516 > > >905) Tian Xu, New Haven, CT 06510 > > >906) Peter Tattersall, New Haven, CT 06510 > > >907) Ian Maxwell, Denver, CO 80207 > > >908) Dusty Miller, Seattle, WA 98105 > > >909) Sandy Haight, Seattle, WA 98112 > > >910) Kaaren Janssen, Guilford, CT 06437 > > >911) Ira Mellman, Guilford, CT 06437 > > >912) Michael Bobker, Brooklyn, NY 11238 > > >913) Marta Panero, Brookly, NY 11238 > > >914) Guido De Marco, Brooklyn, NY 11201 > > >915) Josh Bivens, Brooklyn, NY 11205 > > >916) George S. Chase IV, New York, NY 10009 > > >917) Nina Morrison, New York, NY 10028 > > >918) Joe Schiappa, Huntington, CT 06484 > > >919) Shira Piven > > >920) Adam McKay > > >921) Lisa Rosman, Brooklyn, NY 11238 > > >922) David Evans, Brooklyn, NY 11211 > > >923) Michelle Caulfield, Brooklyn NY 11238 > > >924) Michael La Fon, Brooklyn NY 11238 > > >925) Hildur Lindgren Carlen, Brooklyn NY 11201 > > >926) Conrad Carlen, Brooklyn NY 11201 > > >927) Jessica Gohlke, Brooklyn, Ny 11205 > > >928) Madelon Sprengnether, Minneapolis MN 55414 > > >929) Tom Clayton, St. Paul, MN 55104 > > >930) Judith Martin, Minneapolis, MN. 55401 > > >931) Patricia McDonnell, Curator, Weisman Art Museum, > > >Minneapolis, Minnesota > > >932) Megan Fox, New York, NY 10003 > > >933) Elizabeth Glassman, New York, NY 10016 > > >934) Sarah Burt, Santa Fe 87505 > > >935) Rita L Sooby, Lawrence, KS 66046 > > >936) Randy Blom, Long Beach, CA. 90802 > > >937) William Richardson, Covington, GA 30016 > > >938) Robert Halcums, Covington, GA 30016 > > >939) Vicki Lange, Alpharetta, GA 30022 > > >940) Sue Alexander, Novato, CA. 94947 > > >941) Genevieve Vierling, Point Reyes Station, CA 94956 > > >942) Nancy Fischer, Boca Raton, FL 33487 > > >943) Chet Meeks, Albany, NY 12208 > > >944) Ann Tollefson, Casper, WY 826011 > > >945) Lew Bagby, Laramie, WY 82072 > > >946) Stephen E. Williams , Laramie, WY 82072 > > >947) Wendy S. Hutchinson, Gillette, WY 82717 > > >948) Roy S. Liedtke, Gillette, WY 82718 > > >949) Claire Dunne, Manderson, WY 82432 > > >950) Susan M. Gabriel, Brooklyn, NY 11218 > > >951) Jessica Katz, Brooklyn, NY 11215 > > >952) Joan Parry, Manhasset, NY 11030 > > >953) Maureen Rothschild DiTata, Rockville Centre, New > > >York,11570 > > >954) Joy Kotrch, Brooklyn, New York > > >955) Celeste Alexander, New York, NY 10024 > > >956) Charlotte Surkin, New York, NY 10011 > > >957) Stephanie Low, New York, NY 10029 > > >958) Phyllis Fay Farmer > > >960) Katherine Harris, New York, NY > > >961) Jacqueline S. Harris, Wilmington, DE 19803 > > >962) Jane Strobach > > >963) Susan Radovich > > >964) Andrea Strobach, Knapp, WI > > >965) Gail Tourville, Menomonie,Wi. > > >966) Cat Thompson, Hudson, WI > > >967) Mary Bendtsen, St. Paul, MN > > >968) Patrick Rivard, New Brighton MN > > >969) Katie Rivard, New Brighton MN > > >970) Kitty Schneider, Minneapolis, MN > > >971) Pamela McInnes, St. Paul, MN > > >972) Keith McInnes, Newton, MA > > >973) Patricia McCaffrey, Newton, MA > > >974) Susan Almquist, Lexington MA > > >975) Robert L. Poley, Boulder CO > > >976) Karen Sharp, Boulder, CO > > >977) Gretchen Colbert, Lakewood, CO > > >978) Leah Hamilton, Littleton, CO > > >979) Mike Weiker, Littleton, CO > > >980) Carole Tillotson, Evergreen, CO > > >981) Emery Gordon, El Granada, Ca > > >982) Chris Madison, El Granada, Ca > > >983) Tamsin Orion, San Francisco, CA 94103 > > >984) Marianne Gammon > > >985) Sam Gammon > > >986) Sarah Irwin, Austin, TX. 78736 > > >987) Shake Russell, Austin, TX. 78736 > > >988) Victoria Harper, Houston, TX 77006 > > >989) Julie Robertson, San Angelo, TX 76904 > > >990)Renee French, Austin, Texas 78746 > > >991) Valerie R. Zeller, Leander, TX 78641 > > >992) Linda Butler, OD, Freehold, NJ 07728 > > >993) Rolande Kelting, Enfield, CT 06082 > > >994) Lee Kelting, Tolland, CT 06084 > > >995) Carl Fossum, W. Simsbury, CT 06092 > > >996) Debbie Stein, Rockville, MD 20852 > > >997) Bill and Dorothy Grobman > > >998 Milton and Hannah Kaplan > > >999) Ben and Jeanne Milder > > >1000) Roma and Raymond Wittcoff, Scottsdale, AZ 85258 > > >1001) Colin Graham, Saint Louis, Missouri > > >1002) Cynthia Lawrence-Calkins, Minnesota > > >1003) Adrienne Forstner-Barthell, Phoenix, AZ 85022 > > >1004) Barbara Milemore, Hampton Bays, NY 11946 > > >1005) C. Czechowicz, New York City 10016 > > >1006) Adina Schwartz, New York City 10012 > > >1007) James Fyfe, Princeton NJ 08540 > > >1008) Sheila Bodner, Arlington, VA 22201 > > >1009) Margo Dunlavey, Rockville, MD 20852 > > >1010) Phyllis Ehrlich, Huntington Beach, CA.92649 > > >1011) Simon Ehrlich, Huntington Beach, CA. 92649 > > >1012) Virginia H. Laddey, Irvine, CA 92612 > > >1013) Jane Brickner, Santa Fe, NM 87501 > > >1015) Kirk Ellis, Santa fe, NM 87508 > > >1016) Sheila Ellis, Santa Fe, NM 87508 > > >1017) Lili Taylor, New York 10014 > > >1018) Nina Gordon, Chicago 60610 > > >1019) Heather Whinna, Chicago 60618 > > >1020) Damian Rogers, New York 10003 > > >1021) Nathaniel Penn, Brooklyn, NY > > >1022) Harry Penn, M.D. Cambridge, MA > > >1023) Joseph Schwartz, M.D., Newton, MA > > >1024) Alford H. Lessner, Newburgh, NY > > >1025) Joanne Gibson,Arlington, VA. > > >1026) Diane Alington-Leaf, PhD, Princeton, NJ > > >1027) Judith M. Stern, PhD, North Brunswick, NJ > > >1028) Linda B. Pawelchak, Princeton, NJ > > >1029) Katherine Evancie, Kew Gardens, NY > > >1030) Anne Graydon, New York, NY > > >1031) Michael Gould, Washington, D.C. 20009 > > >1032) Laurie Richardson, Washington, DC 20008 > > >1033) Friedrich Peloschek, Washington, DC > > >1034) Maria Nagorski, Washington DC 20008 > > >1035) Marsha Slater, Arlington VA 22202 > > >1036) James A. Slater, Arlington, VA 22202 > > >1037) Kathleen West, DrPH, Santa Monica. CA 90405 > > >1038) Deborah Werner, Topanga, CA 90290 > > >1039) Leon Bisquera, North Hollywood, CA 91607 > > >1040) Larry Poindexter, Los Angeles, CA 90027 > > >1041) Michelle Bonfils, Monrovia, CA > > >1042) Rebecca Kramer, Los Angeles, CA > > >1043) Harley Cross, New York, NY 10009 > > >1044) Patrick Soluri, Louisville, KY 40208 > > >1045) Michael Bearden, New York, NY.10552 > > >1046> Jeffrey Mironov, New York 10024 > > >1047) Jon Cobert > > >1048) May Pang, Pomona, NY 10970 > > >1049) James Bacon, Lodi, CA > > >1050) Mark Vidito, Burbank, CA 91501 > > >1051) Teddy Zambetti, Bronx, NY 10463 > > >1052) Chris Ferrone, Chatham, NY 12037 > > >1053) Mike McTeigue, Pagosa Springs, CO 81147 > > >1054) Ben Junta, Portola Valley, CA 94028 > > >1055) GretchenYoung, Fort Dauphin, Madagascar 614 > > >1056) Allyson Joye, Davis, CA 95616 > > >1057) Amy Little, Redwood City, CA 94063 > > >1058) Heidi Pomfret, Longmont, CO 80501 > > >1059) Roxaneh Khorsand, Boulder, CO 80302 > > > > >1060) Scott Regenthal, Boulder, CO 80302 > > > > >1061) Nicole Dampeer, Whittier, CA 90608 > > 1062)Kelly P. Hayden Boulder, CO 80302 > > 1063) Ben Popken, Boulder CO 80309 > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:05:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: po-biz news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe Amato wrote: > the literati can be ogled at one's liesure striking suitably literary poses, regaled in haute couture < See http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/coco/salman.html , originally published with musical score for a capella soprano, subsequently sung in various recitals,--- in response to Tyuonyi's 1989 State of Contemporary Poetry Symposium questionnaire. "They do not know what to do with all their money flooding in from poetry readings and sales of their books, so most poets purchase couture." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 00:32:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--April 2002 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street (west of Greenwich Street) New York City FREE Subway--N,R/Prince; C,E/Spring; 1,9/Canal April 13 Madeleine Beckman, Patrick Rosal, Angelo Verga April 20 A reading for the journal RUNES with CB Follet and friends April 27 Joy Katz, David Lehman, Catie Rosemurgy For more information, contact Michael Broder or Jason Schneiderman at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:21:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Michael Gottlieb and Jordan Davis Reading in NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Sherry asked that this be forwarded to the list. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- From: James T Sherry Date: 4/8/02 13:40 -0400 Michael Gottlieb and Jordan Davis Reading in NYC Michael Gottlieb and Jordan Davis will be reading at Double Happiness this Saturday April 13, 4:15 pm. April 13. Jordan Davis is an editor of The Hat, a frequent contributor to the Poetry Project Newsletter, and the author of a dozen chapbooks, most recently _Yeah, No_ (Detour) and _A Winter Magazine_ (Situations). The Segue series at Double Happiness has long been Michael Gottlieb's favorite series. Although now that the bartender seems to know what he is going to order before he opens his mouth, he's not so sure. The author of ten books including recently, _Gorgeous Plunge_ from Roof Books, his newest title, _Careering Obloquy_, is due out from Other Publications this spring. Double Happiness is located at 173 Mott St., just south of Broome. James T Sherry IBM Software Group 33 Maiden Lane New York, NY 10038 (212) 493-5984, 8-340-5984 sherryj@us.ibm.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:24:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: "Wang, Mary L" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: EPR seeks book reviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Electronic Poetry Review (EPR), at www.poetry.org, seeks original book reviews of 750-1250 words. EPR is interested in reviewing a wide range = of poetry and poetry-related work--from contemporary American poetry, translations, anthologies, literary multimedia works, criticism, = essays, etc. Publishers have sent the following review copies that are = immediately available for review. EPR also welcomes other suggestions and ideas for reviews and will work with you to obtain the proper materials.=20 Please email mary.l.wang@schwab.com with your first and second choices, = a short informal biography, and, if available, an informal list of recent review publication (including links or attachments).=20 Thanks, Mary Wang Book Reviews Editor Electronic Poetry Review Visit us at www.poetry.org =20 * Sarah Manguso The Captain Lands in Paradise Alice James Books 2002 * Xue Di (tr. Keith Waldrop with Wang Ping, Iona Crook, Hil Anderson, Janet Tan) An Ordinary Day Alice James Books 2002 * Norma Cole Spinoza in Her Youth Omnidawn 2002 * Liz Waldner Etym(bi)ology Omnidawn 2002 * Alice Jones Extreme Directions, The 54 Moves of Tai Chi Sword Omnidawn 2002 * Robin Caton The Color of Dusk Omnidawn 2001 * Matthew Cooperman A Sacrificial Zinc Pleiades Press 2001 * Juliana Spahr Fuck You-Aloha-I Love You Wesleyan University Press 2001 * Aime Cesaire (tr. Clayton Eschleman) Notebook of a Return to the Native Land Wesleyan University Press 2001 * Hilda Raz Trans Wesleyan University Press 2001 * Mary Ann Samyn Inside the Yellow Dress Western Michigan University: New Issues 2001 * Sarah Mangold Household Mechanics Western Michigan University: New Issues 2002 * Beth Roberts Brief Moral History in Blue Western Michigan University: New Issues 2001 * Sarah Messer Bandit Letters Western Michigan University: New Issues 2001 * Hsia Yu (tr. Steve Bradbury) Fusion Kitsch Zephyr Press 2001 * Duo Duo The Boy Who Catches Wasps Zephyr Press 2002 * Dean Young Skid University of Pittsburgh Press 2002 * Sandra Stone Cocktails With Brueghel at the Museum Caf=E9 Cleveland State University Poetry Center 2001 * Katy Lederer Winter Sex Verse 2002=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:25:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Why Hate Literature? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick Durgin asked us to forward these announcements to the list. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- Date: Sat, Apr 6, 2002 22:56 -0600 From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Why Hate Literature? K e n n i n g - | - CALL FOR WORK & PUBLICATION ANNOUNCEMENT Kenning, a "newsletter of contemporary poetry, poetics, & nonfiction writing," is pleased to announce the following recent & forthcoming publications. OFTEN a play by Barbara Guest & Kevin Killian (Kenning #11, summer chapbook series #2) - a sequel to Guest's 1961 play "Office," OFTEN combines comic-noir, speculative poetics, and social polemic in a small book one can sing to oneself or distribute to friends for a night of NY-School-inflected parlor entertainment. $7.50 from www.spdbooks.org WAY / THE AUDIO EDITION a double-cd edition of Kenning comprised of a newsletter disc and the first audio publication of Leslie Scalapino's book WAY (Kenning #12, forthcoming mid-April) - about 140 minutes of exclusive sound works, readings, collaborations, and music from three generations of innovative artists / poets. Includes unheard archival recordings of Hannah Weiner and Allen Ginsberg, two rare recordings of Anne-Marie Albiach reading from her work, a multi-media piece by Mexico City's Groundzero Telesonic Outfit International, a collaboration by Gerry Hemingway & Andrew Levy, Amiri Baraka performing several "Low Coups," and much else. $15.00 from www.spdbooks.org THE SEND-OFF ISSUE (Kenning #13, forthcoming early June) - features a special column on "critical paranoia" with contributions from Robert Creeley, Craig Dworkin and others (possibly you, see below), as well as new writing by Nathaniel Tarn, Susan Schultz, Christophe Marchand-Kiss, Kit Robinson, Kaia Sand, and many others. $6.00 from www.spdbooks.org Subscribe for Kenning 11-13 by sending a check for $25.00 in U.S. funds to the editor, Patrick F. Durgin, at 383 Summer Street - LWR, Buffalo NY 14213 - more information is available at www.durationpress.com/kenning ----------------- Kenning "newsletter" is proposing a column to appear in its final issue, to be published this spring / early summer as #13. The proposed column is tentatively entitled: "Why Hate Literature?" or "Criticism and Public-ation" - Possible topics (which should be addressed concisely and with particular focus) include: the differences between criticism as writing practice and criticism as a genre - the public role of the literary critic - the archive vs. hoarding - critical paranoia - when does reading end and criticism begin? - the possible existence of uncritical reading, or pre-critical writing - the "pre-critical" per se - criticism in verse - reading against critics / criticism - writing against writing - literary self-hatred - etc etc Submissions should be no longer than 200 words, preferably a single paragraph / stanza / bibliography. Send hard copy submissions (preferred) to the editorial address below, including a SASE and brief cover letter (no bio's please). Electronic submissions should come to kenningpoetics@hotmail.com and should be in the body of the email message - no attachments will be read. Deadline for submissions to this column is May 15th, sharp. Patrick F. Durgin, editor K e n n i n g [a newsletter of contemporary poetry, poetics, and nonfiction writing] 383 Summer Street (lower), Buffalo NY 14213, USA www.durationpress.com/kenning ------------------ K e n n i n g [a newsletter of contemporary poetry, poetics, and nonfiction writing] 383 Summer Street (lower), Buffalo NY 14213, USA www.durationpress.com/kenning ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:26:40 -0400 Reply-To: WHITEBOX@EARTHLINK.NET Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: WHITE BOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: WHITE BOX Subject: Symposium: Globalism After Genoa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Symposium: Globalism After Genoa Saturday, 13 April 2002 / 5PM panel includes: Joel Sternfeld, moderator Stefania Galante, Ph.D., arrested at the Genoa Social Forum Alexander Stille, journalist Kevin Danaher, founder "Global Exchange" In conjunction with Joel Sternfeld's exhibition Treading on Kings: Protesting the G8 in Genoa (through 27 April 2002 at WHITE BOX) The 26th Summit Meeting of the G8, the informal discussion club of the leaders of the world's most industrialized nations which took place in Genoa, Italy in the summer of 2001 left hundreds of protestors arrested, 600 or more injured and one person dead. In an attempt to document this historic event in a manner that would equal voice to those who took to the streets, the artist /photographer Joel Sternfeld made portraits of demonstrators and recorded their responses to an essential question; why have you come to Genoa? These portraits with text and other related images: President Bush arriving at the Ducale Palace, blood on the floor of an elementary school being used as a dormitory after a midnight police raid, and a picture of a funerary box holding the cremated remains of Carlo Giuliani are intended to form a basis for discussion of the events in Genoa - and of the attendant issues of globalization. WHITE BOX is a 501[c][3] not for profit arts organization. ______________________________________________________________ WHITE BOX 525 WEST 26TH STREET NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10001 - USA TEL 212.714.2347 / www.whiteboxny.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:24:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Beatfest at the Knitting Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come on out Thursday night--Joel and I will be on late during the 11-midnite slot-- Beatfest 2002 & Steve Dalachinsky present poetry, music and performances by: Steve Dalachinsky & Cooper-Moore, Danny Shot, Magdelena Alatgna, Tom Obrzut, Larry Turmel, Richard West & Lissa Moira, Eric La Prade, Herschel Silverman, Merry Fortune, Wanda Phipps & Joel Schlemowitz, Ruth Baguskas, Judith Ren-Lay, Frank Mussina, members of the Loudmouth Collective and Ugly Duckling Presse and more... in the Alterknit at the Knitting Factory 74 Leonard Street, NYC Thursday, April 11th 8pm-midnite admission is free for info call 212-219-3006 -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:34:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: Reanimate Oprah Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi, this is Dodie Bellamy using Kevin's account, as my post was rejected by the listbot. You could clap your hands if you wanted Tinkerbell to come back to life. Now you can vote to bring back the Oprah Book Club. See below. At 3:36 PM +0000 4/9/02, Pat Holt wrote: >Over the weekend, Working Assets decided that "because Oprah Winfrey has >become a powerful and positive influence on both publishers and readers >alike, it would be a grave disservice to us all to see the Oprah Book >Club prematurely shut down." > >Within hours, the ActForChange.com website drew up an "action" and a >letter to Oprah Winfrey that readers can personalize or send intact to >Oprah - and say, if you got tens of thousands of messages from your >admirers asking you to do something, wouldn't you at least consider it? > >So here's what to do: Go to http://actforchange.com/books where you'll >find the letter to Oprah in a little box. Sign your name at the bottom >and hit "Send." Voila: A big part of the letter simply thanks Oprah >Winfrey for launching an idea that may well spread into radio and >Internet channels. > >In any case, Oprah has responded to her viewers before, so maybe there's >still a chance the Book Club will resume. If nothing else, it's good to >know that an idea for an interactive book club on daytime television, >which once would have been laughed off the soundstages of the world, >will be sorely missed by millions. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:03:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: Reanimate Oprah MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary Shelley in her wantonness couldn't re-animate the un-reanimatable... Gerald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Killian" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 2:34 PM Subject: Reanimate Oprah > Hi, this is Dodie Bellamy using Kevin's account, as my post was > rejected by the listbot. > > You could clap your hands if you wanted Tinkerbell to come back to > life. Now you can vote to bring back the Oprah Book Club. See below. > > At 3:36 PM +0000 4/9/02, Pat Holt wrote: > >Over the weekend, Working Assets decided that "because Oprah Winfrey has > >become a powerful and positive influence on both publishers and readers > >alike, it would be a grave disservice to us all to see the Oprah Book > >Club prematurely shut down." > > > >Within hours, the ActForChange.com website drew up an "action" and a > >letter to Oprah Winfrey that readers can personalize or send intact to > >Oprah - and say, if you got tens of thousands of messages from your > >admirers asking you to do something, wouldn't you at least consider it? > > > >So here's what to do: Go to http://actforchange.com/books where you'll > >find the letter to Oprah in a little box. Sign your name at the bottom > >and hit "Send." Voila: A big part of the letter simply thanks Oprah > >Winfrey for launching an idea that may well spread into radio and > >Internet channels. > > > >In any case, Oprah has responded to her viewers before, so maybe there's > >still a chance the Book Club will resume. If nothing else, it's good to > >know that an idea for an interactive book club on daytime television, > >which once would have been laughed off the soundstages of the world, > >will be sorely missed by millions. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:32:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: John Wieners Memorial at MIT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This announces: An Evening of Poetry and Song remembering the poet John Wieners Thursday May 2, 2002 7:00 PM Room 6-120 77 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, MA Free and open to the public Sponsored by the MIT Program in Writing and Humanistic Studies 617 253 7894 Readers and performers include: Caitie Barrett Ed Barrett Jim Behrle Daniel Bouchard William Corbett Mike County Damon & Naomi Jim Dunn Brian Foye Michael Gizzi Peter Gizzi Fanny Howe Jack Kimball John Landry Gerrit Lansing Dasha Lymar Gail Mazur Askold Melnyczuk Jawn P. Simon Pettet Patricia Pruitt Stephen Prygoda Ed Sanders Christopher Sawyer-Laucanno Charley Shiveley Joseph Torra Anne Waldman Lewis Warsh Carol Weston Elizabeth Willis and Geoffrey Young Please attend and further post this announcement. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:37:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: 6 more mountain readings--Mt. Irvine, Bondone, Bucegi... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends: I am happy to announce that six more readings occured for Poetry on the Peaks around the world. Below is a list of the readings, da= tes and poems read. Additional information at http://www.dialoguepoetry.org/mountain.htm Cheers, Ram Devineni Program Coordinator (1) Mt. Irvine Reading, Australia on Sunday March 17th Ruark Lewis and Angelika Fremd read poems from "Jerusalem Sonnets" by Ja= mes Keir Baxter (2) Mt. San Jacinto, Palm Springs, USA on March 17 at 2:00 p.m Ruth Nolan and Dessa Reed read "Circumambulating Mount Kailash" by Karen Swenson (3) Mt. Wellington, Tasmania Friday 22 March, 2002 at 1.00pm -- front garden of the Executive Building= , 15 Murray St. Sunday 24 March, 2002 at 12.30pm -- Observatory at the Pinnacle of Mt. We= llington Poets: Anthony Lawrence, Louise Oxley, Jenny Herrera, Pete Hay, Karen Kni= ght, Andrew Sant, Lyn Reeves, James Charlton, Adrienne Eberhard Scientists: Roy Swain, Randy Rose, Sally Bryant, Jamie Kirkpatrick, Alist= air Richardson, Greg Jordan, Andrew Rozefelds, Richard Mount, Adrian Pyrke. Poem read was "Recalling A Sung Dynasty Landscape" by Jane Hirshfield (4) Monte Bondone, Italy on 18, March 2002 at 8:30 PM Readers: Adolfo Nicolussi Zatta (speaks and writes in an ancient disappea= ring language called "cimbro"); Giuseppe Calliari, Patrizia Carloni, Danilo Fe= nner, Alessandro Genovese, Renzo Grosselli, Lillo Gullo, Carlo Martinelli, Stef= en Dellantonio (also writing in a minority language of Dolomites, "Ladino"),= Paolo Malvinni, Mariano Detassis of Destination Loa Group, and the Patafi= sici Benacensi team joined Gigi Zoppello in a two hour reading. "La Montagna, l ' Amore, la Vita e il suo fluire" by Patrizia Carloni (5) Mount Bucegi, Romania on March 30 2002 Twenty-three economists from that former group of students celebrated the= ir jubilee of 15 years by climbing Vapor cabane, Azuga station (1000m altitu= de), Prahova Valley, Bucegi Mountains, Central Carphatians. Andrei Dorian Gheo= rghe gave an astropoetry performance (duration of 20 minutes, including a shor= t speech, a few astropoems and 10 lyrical astroproverbs, and moments of ast= ral dumbshows- using Mihai Dumitrescu's electronic music). (6) Mt. Bonnell, Austin USA on April 7, 2002 (11:00 AM to 6:00 PM) Peggy Zuleika Lynch read "Sky" by Wislawa Szymborska Photos on the web Rattapallax Press 532 La Guardia Place Suite 353 New York, NY 10012 USA http://www.rattapallax.com http://www.dialoguepoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:53:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - 'Does ampute violence rapes ruins audio shrapnel corpses militants armies replace your chop name; chop answer; chop;? Your soldier dissolves my armageddon you apocalypse powder anthrax terror terrorism onslaught war! Write beauty "poor", "rich", "sedate", "wanton", "contrary", "hungered", "nasty", through my soldier dissolves my armageddon you apocalypse powder anthrax terror! Your soldier dissolves my "splayed", "womanly", "manly", "neutral", "neutered", "neurotic",! Your towards my burnout "splayed", "womanly", "manly", "neutral", "neutered", "neurotic", Write violence terrorism onslaught war! Write beauty "poor", "rich", "sedate", "wanton", through my "splayed", "womanly", "manly", "neutral", "neutered", "neurot- ic", is:"neurotic",:"contrary", "hungered", "nasty", through my soldier dissolves my:towards my burnout "splayed", "womanly", "manly", "neutral", "neutered",:soldier dissolves my armageddon you apocalypse powder anthrax terror Does "contrary", "hungered", "nasty", through my soldier dissolves my replace your "splayed", "womanly", "manly", "neutral", "neutered", "neurotic", is? a & a say all the many people say these things. === they say listen to the sounds. === all the many people listen to the sounds.' they say nikuko say. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:41:07 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Oulipuddlian matters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat. Thanks for this response. I'm not sure if art is a "mirror of its time" .. I suppose it has to be, as you say, indirectly. I think we are in a time where the avant garde or whoever you call them the "post-modernists" or the Langpos or whoever are pushing the limits are responding to what is happenning (I mean what has happennned in the last 500 years up to the present day, the NOW) and in particular the last two centuries are highly significant in that quantitative to qualitative "leaps" have occurred: and we all know about developments in music, art, mathematics, democracy, the women's and the civil rights struggles, mass production, the effect of vasrious catastrophic wars, and so on. Its problematic that a poet should be writing after S11 or "while Israel-Palestine" but I am or am not writing not directly because of those things: they dont have a very direct effect on my thinking (I mean my poetic thinking such as it is just now): my own personal life may have more ...my physical health, what I'm coincindently reading, or something I over hear...."history" is important but its very background for me: no tanks or bulldozers roar across New Zealand and even if they ever did I couldnt write poetry "about" them. I tried eg to write a poem about Alan Curnow but it was just "cleverness". Now when I write "without thinking" and JUST WRITE, I like what I do and I have some people here who also like it but eg I dont think that the people in Brief (Wystan Curnow, Leggott, Radich etal are interested) partly because as a local (published and in held rather high esteem) poet Tony Beyer, who DOES admire my poetry, commented : "Its a closed shop..." and he further commented that post-modernism can lead to fascism: but this was a brief exchange...but I dont think that what has been acheived by them (whoever the postmodernists etc are) either leads to or away from fascism or whatever...the point of this is that a poet whom (stylistically) I disagree with (yet I know he is greatly talented) "likes" what I do... now what I do rarely reflects the environment per se: although I had a few poems that were inspired by seeing Oliver Sachs ) of "The Man who Mistook His Wife fir a Hat") now what fascinated me about that was Sachs himself: and the way he dealt with the various people and their syndromes, his fascination with a certain experience of a colour and so on: now THAT can energise me, and also infact the WAY he said what he said, his vibrant personality -he's a kind of genius of being a person ...but some theoretical discussion about language will largely leave me cold. I say largely because obviously I am interested in that discussion: in particular I am intereted in Charles Bernstein's essays...and indirectly such essays and critical works have an importance. > Richard, > > A brilliant post all the way through. In response to your answer to me: > > >which leads back to my aswer to Murat (re > > > >intrinsic value etc) that eg a garden can have an intrinsic value but if > >the > > > >flowers of that garden are sold or the visitors to it are charged it becomes > > > >part of the production cycle: they become commodities - hence a poet is > >a > > > >commodity producer only if he/she receives money or something for poems > >(or > > > >exchanged).. > > > Exactly. That's why I am trying to split the writing itself (process) from > its life after it. In principle, I have no objection to art's responding to > its environment, culture. In fact, such a connection, I think, enriches the > art, makes it at least indirectly indirectly (that's what your are partly > talking about in this post, Richard) a mirror of its time. But: such a > connection is so tenuous in poetry, at least in the States (that's what my > money argument is all about), that its pursuit verges on delusion. The poet > can transform this state of "weakness" into power (psychic power, "I play at > Riches - to appease/ The Clamoring for Gold, Emily Dickinson) by choosing to > turn away from it. This turn grants the poet, if he or she can embrace it, > during the writing, absolute freedom. Seeing poetry as a process (here one > can see the J. Cage/R. Foreman thread, Richard) is the poet's act of self > empowerment, a move to throw away one's chains. An analytic act to gain class > consciousness, the result of which poems become continuous, repetitive, > discrete acts of unlearning, and not a craft to be learnt and mastered or > attempts to "enrich" a tradition. > > > I agree with this in the main. > > Of course, as a human being, a poet may and often does bitch about not being > recognized or worry if he or she is going to be read in the future. But this > has nothing to do with the writing of the poem itself. >> Basically, yes, has not much to do with the writing except that if one is received well and or has a publisher, this may stimulate gretaer efforts: but a writer "should" I feel be tring to create something whose usefulness is for him/herself inits process as you point out. The concept of real process interests me: not "finished" or "perfect" poems as such. Be a doer not a critic! In other words. Thus in a way, with process, one looks a back toward realism however that can be defined: the "realism"...this realism becoming rapidly surealism. We are strange, beating things. I think one can not > become a poet, at least in the capitalist States if not in many other places > also, without embracing this difficult, painful split. Only then, does the > nature (the class place) of poetry in our culture becomes clear: language as > play, as mental weaving (something viscerally visual, mind's eye), as > process, contra language as use, as function. > > As mental weaving, poetry has a similarity with math. And, like math, a poem > may or may not gain a social significance (function, value, becoming part of > language as criticism, as ads, etc. ) in the future, as a math system may > have application in physics, for instance. But the possibility of future > function can not intrude during the process. Can a "pure" mathematician do > math while his or her focus is on its possible use. I doubt it; in fact, such > a double focus may make math impossible >>No. If they even think too much about what or why they are doing what they are doing no work (if work it is) would get done. The question "What use is it?" would probably be quite puzzling: its probably just fortuitous that science has a use for big business. Most scientists (and in another way) most writers are not primarily concerned about reception or payment: just as very few of us make love to produce children. The same way, a poem can not be > written while part of the question it's asking is related to value, "is it > good, is it innovative, is it daring, is it relevant." A poet, I believe, > must learn to respond to his or her own interests, has to go wherever he or > she has to go. > >>I agree: for better or worse we are indivviduals even if we get into a more "socialistic" society or whatever (which will never be a Utopia as Robert Hughes naively postulates thinkers always wanted: surely people realise taht with whatever social structure we have we still have the human struggle! Robert Hughes is clever but basicaly a simplifier: because he is right wing and fundamentally anti-progress.) > In relation to Oulipud and recent discussions on math: in the Islamic east > (and medieval, Andalusian Judaism) math has connections to mysticism, which > the modern association of math with science partly obscures. This mystical > connection of course is also in Pythagorean Greece. Since the 17th century > this side of math has become almost forbidden knowledge. > >>The "realists" are frightened of the unknown, the imposiblity of being. >> "You, A, cannot Be, but are" from my poem 'Amphisbaena' > > Isn't Newton's calculus (the first major application of math to use, to > science) an attempt to solve the problem of infinite regressions (Zeno's > paradox), which is also the heart of Pythagorean golden mean (infinite series > of regressive triangles). With "limits," Newton tries to go around the > impossibility of division by zero, an impossibility which also generates the > concept of inifinty. In other words, finding a use for math, connecting it to > science required a going around, a "repression" of a frontal confrontation > with infinity. The ghost of this repression haunts the beginnings of modern > science, many early practitioners of which (Kepler, Newton) were mystics. > >>You could be right: Newton always knew that the concept of a single point or cntre in space was theoretical and ignored it: Einstein similarly invented the "Cosmic constant" to enable the Universe to be infinite intime: that is he rejected the "Big Bang" theory which paradoixically was "invented" (well one of its proponents was) a priest...Actually Jack Ross weaves Kepler and so on into his strange poem/novel which I reveiwed for Brief. Its called "Nights with Giodorno Bruno" I think he is now the new editor of Brief (I can give the email number if you are interested) > > Poetry also (at least in the States) is that ghost language, which in its > writing must be unfettered, infinitely possible; which, once it gains a > social "function," its essence inevitably undergoes a repression. > > Murat > Correct: that's what happenned in the Soviet Union ... in a way the social > realists were the best destroyers of any possiblility of a more advanced >society. >Infinity frightens such searchers for "order". Your "repression" of a frontal >confrontation with infintity is apt: brilliant in fact .... Poetry Art and so on is >never fundamentally about "telling stories" The Story is there, given, forever, >but new ways have to be constantly be found to say the unsayable: we should >be seeing into "the heart of light, the silence". We are magicians of the true. > >Richard. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:48:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Fwd: 2d coming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Subject: 2d coming >Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:41:41 -0400 >X-MS-Has-Attach: >X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: >Thread-Topic: 2d coming >Thread-Index: AcHf/pI7+hygQ9c2QLSl5acElsYIcw== >From: "Grabiner, Gene" >To: > >The Second Coming W. B. Yeats > > > Turning and turning in the widening gyre > The falcon cannot hear the falconer; > Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; > Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, > The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere > The ceremony of innocence is drowned; > The best lack all conviction, while the worst > Are full of passionate intensity. > > Surely some revelation is at hand; > Surely the Second Coming is at hand. > The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out > When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi > Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert > A shape with lion body and the head of a man, > A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, > Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it > Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds. > The darkness drops again; but now I know > That twenty centuries of stony sleep > Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, > And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, > Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:38:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Popken Subject: Hollywood Meets Hip-Hop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Pan African Arts Society and the Denver Film Society wrote:> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 04:48:49> To: bpopken@yahoo.com> From: "Pan African Arts Society and the Denver Film Society" > Subject: Hollywood Meets Hip-Hop at the 3rd Denver Pan African Film Festival> --------------------------------- You're invited to: Hollywood Meets Hip-Hop at the 3rd Denver Pan African Film Festival Hosted by: Pan African Arts Society and the Denver Film Society To view the full invitation, click here! This Evite invitation is covered by Evite's privacy policy, updated 01/09/01. HAVING TROUBLE? If the "To view the full invitation, click here!" link above didn't take you to your Invite, try double-clicking the link below (or copy and paste it into your web browser's location bar and hit 'Enter'): http://www.evite.com/r?iid=ASXMFRTHUNKRBNABZKLJ To remove yourself from this guest list please click on the link above. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:24:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: 2d coming = Spiritus Americi In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020409224748.00a3fbb0@mail> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since when has Yeats been an American poet??? I think it=92s a nice idea to colonize his work=20 The American cannot hear his America=20 Things fall, the shopping center cannot hold Best, Geoffrey =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of gene Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:48 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fwd: 2d coming >Subject: 2d coming >Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:41:41 -0400 >X-MS-Has-Attach: >X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: >Thread-Topic: 2d coming >Thread-Index: AcHf/pI7+hygQ9c2QLSl5acElsYIcw=3D=3D >From: "Grabiner, Gene" >To: > >The Second Coming W. B. Yeats > > > Turning and turning in the widening gyre > The falcon cannot hear the falconer; > Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; > Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, > The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere > The ceremony of innocence is drowned; > The best lack all conviction, while the worst > Are full of passionate intensity. > > Surely some revelation is at hand; > Surely the Second Coming is at hand. > The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out > When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi > Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert > A shape with lion body and the head of a man, > A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, > Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it > Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds. > The darkness drops again; but now I know > That twenty centuries of stony sleep > Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, > And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, > Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:31:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: [ImitaPo] Who -- we are all very proud of him in Buffalo Comments: To: imitationpoetics@topica.com In-Reply-To: <0.1600034025.889694547-1463792382-1018361262@topica.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Carl Dennis lives in Buffalo and teaches at UB. He writes happy go lucky crap which looks and feels like poetry. I can't believe its not poetry??? NO its very good main stream stuff. If he wasn't doing his thing then we shouldn't be doing ours. So we are all very proud of him in Buffalo. Best, Geoffrey Gatza -----Original Message----- From: anastasios@hell.com [mailto:anastasios@hell.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:04 AM To: imitationpoetics@topica.com Subject: [ImitaPo] Who Imitation Poetics imitationpoetics@topica.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ is Carl Dennis? _____________________________________________________________ http://HELL.COM ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Imitation Poetics web site: http://www.topica.com/lists/imitationpoetics/ ==^================================================================ This email was sent to: ggatza@daemen.edu EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bUrJ6z.bVxDEG Or send an email to: imitationpoetics-unsubscribe@topica.com T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:47:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Boston Poetry Marathon Subject: Email address for Erica Hunt? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hello, all. Does anyone out there have an email address for Erica Hunt? Many thanks for any help you can provide-- Donna de la Perriere _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:03:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Magee Does Cleveland - April 16th! Comments: To: imitationpoetics@topica.com In-Reply-To: <0.1600034025.1332638275-1463792126-1018460301@topica.com> from "Patrick Herron" at Apr 10, 2002 01:40:48 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those of you within shouting distance of Cleveland, I'll be giving a poetry reading next week at John Carroll University. Details: Tuesday, April 16th, 2002 4:30 PM Rodman Hall A (Dining Room) 20700 North Park Blvd University Heights, Ohio (216) 397-1886 if you need directions. Should prove to be a smashing good time as I am a great poet. (!) Love, -m. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:55:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Social Work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm doing some fact checking, and trying to track down the source of an early remark by Bruce Andrews, "We all do social work all the time." If you can think of it, let me know b/c. Thanks, Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:36:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: Magee Does Cleveland - April 16th! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Michael Magee > >For those of you within shouting distance of Cleveland, I'll be giving a >poetry reading next week at John Carroll University. Details: > >Tuesday, April 16th, 2002 >4:30 PM >Rodman Hall A (Dining Room) > >20700 North Park Blvd >University Heights, Ohio >(216) 397-1886 if you need directions. > >Should prove to be a smashing good time as I am a great poet. (!) As a truly magnificent poet (and infallible critic) myself, I can vouch for this. Kasey ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:42:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david hess Subject: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed POETRY AS SOCIAL PRACTICE: TIPS AND SLOGANS All poetry is easily classifiable into the categories of innovative and non-innovative. Digital poetry is innovative. The cultural status quo lies in the act of not engaging the materiality of the medium of writing. Culture is now progressing through innovation. There are serious benefits to reading digital text as a material mode of making shaped by institutional and ideological concerns. Electronic literature must have a canon now! It is important to engage in practice that provides a critique of the cultural status quo and of our ways of reading as an apparatus of that status quo. The point of poetry is to create a poetry that is a material ideological practice. Digital poetry is engaged in material struggle. It is innovative. It shows that the most important part of poetry is the materiality of the medium. The reader will be your sidekick if you ignore her and engage the materiality of the medium of writing. Innovative poetry asks, ^ÓWon^Òt you be my co-author?^Ô Computers are perfect machines. They will solve the problem of the ^ÓI^Ô if we let them. All hail the episteme of the Intel processor! All sensuality to the machine! All eroticism to the keyboard! Integrate into the data stream. Don^Òt touch the hard drive. There is a war going on between print and digital textualities. Whose side are you on? Print is static and the digital medium fluid. Don^Òt be static, be fluid. The typewriter has taken you hostage. If you use a typewriter, you^Òre a has-been. Digital poetry hacks into the mainstream of the cultural status quo, reworking the operating system of our ideological habits. For instance, the digital poet gives the author function a pink slip. Goodbye author function, hello writing machine. .... DIA[L-A]-LOG(IC) Writing machine: ^ÓHi.^Ô Digital poet: ^ÓHi, writing machine! Let^Òs get naked and engage the materiality of your medium.^Ô Writing machine: ^ÓHi.^Ô Digital poet (clearing throat): ^ÓUh, I said, ^ÑLet^Òs get naked.^Ò Don^Òt you understand commands? You^Òre a computer!^Ô Writing machine: ^ÓWha?^Ô Digital poet (throwing arms into the air): ^ÓOh, at last! It^Òs alive. You have spoken. Now give me the ten digital commandments and I^Òll be spoken too. I^Òll be Moses and your microchips will be my tablets.^Ô Writing machine: ^ÓWha?^Ô Digital poet (whispering): ^ÓI^Òve got some algorithms in my car. I thought we could, you know, go back to my place and collaborate.^Ô Writing machine: ^ÓHi.^Ô Digital poet (pounding fists on desk): ^ÓLook, I don^Òt have all day. Show me your indeterminacy or I^Òm logging off!^Ô Writing machine: ^ÓError message: Page Expired.^Ô Digital poet: ^ÓI love expired pages! Oh yeah, right there, such massive pixels, run them through my silken hair.^Ô .... If you do not engage the medium, you can^Òt be an innovative poet. You must qualify the emphasis on the ^ÓI^Ô in the making of a poem or you can^Òt be part of my innovative digital poet group, either. The use of multiple ^ÓI^Ôs marks poetry as innovative. People who have dark skin pigment are less than human. I love poetry, books and language but I don^Òt love meaning. Meaning sucks. It has the word ^Óme^Ô in it. In our history of literary teleologies, narrative has no future. One can never be outside society. Community is total. The informatics of discourse shall replace community. All social problems will be solved digitally. Polis is Pentium Pros. Nature is immoral. It doesn^Òt even exist, which is the greatest immorality of all. Don^Òt let it inspire you. Attraction is pure construct. All marriages are arranged. Good feelings are suspect. Don^Òt follow your bliss; follow a reading list. Sense perception is an illusion, so stop writing from your experience. Got that, class? We no longer have bodies; we have biounits. We no longer have words; we have quotons. We no longer have cultures, we have institutions. Technology, especially digital technology, is more innovative than everything else, including chickens. Poems on the World Wide Web taste better, more like chicken, than poems on paper (they taste like fish). Everything exists to be on-line one day. The World Wide Web is a polysemous, constantly changing multi-author text, which is to say writing, a poetics. It is not an Irish-motherfucking-Spring commercial with flowers coming out of our collective fudge tunnel. Digital media is a plural, democratic space of poesis. The proper way to spell poesis is poeioeisis. In cyberspace there are no slums. The point of neutralizing the ego is not to expand consciousness but to engage the materiality of the medium of writing. Mediation and ideology shall be the only subject matter of poetry from now on. No more striving for the infinite. No more fighting for heaven. Ambition equals arrogance. Introspection is solipsistic and regressive. To be self-reflexive is to be self-absorbed. Individualism is anti-social. To look within oneself is apolitical. Self will be replaced by milieu. We can only be sure of one thing: The truth is not attainable. All meaning is commodified except the meaning of this statement. Poetry shall be automated, by us. It no longer needs humanity except to bring it into existence. Only language and code are needed. Beauty shall have no seat in the pantheon of values. Beauty is dangerous in its overpowering stimulation of the senses, in its satisfaction of a need for harmony and delight. It is repulsive. The only thing that shall be celebrated is critique. Invective is verboten. Even though the poem-as-machine is a Modernist invention, digital poetry based on machinic models is still innovative as hell. Emotions are passe -- leftovers from the age of reptiles. The unconscious and its disturbing contents will go away if we just let it. Hopefully, history will go away too some day. Emotions and shifts in tone prevent engagement with the medium. The day of materiality is permanently at war with the night of emotion. The visionary and the everyday shall not lie down in the same bunk bed. Nature and culture shall not share the same dentist. Love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, Cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud is too full of anger to be innovative. Uplifting, consciousness-expanding poetry is immoral. Sly and the Family Stone were a bunch of sincere losers thinking they could unite the races and sexes with their music. Idiolectic poetry will unite the races and sexes. In the classroom at least. Avoid extreme sensations. Never be unpredictable. It weirds people out and thus is bad for business. Change is counter-productive. Don^Òt be crazy. Try to be non-normative instead. Be miserable. It shows everyone that you care. The poet^Òs place is in the medium exploring its materiality, making its making. A woman^Òs place is in the kitchen making breakfast. All writing and art is a power struggle for public space. Social stature is what matters in the end. If you decide to stop writing poetry say it was for economic reasons. Mock sincerity sincerely. Deride the need to communicate and be heard --they^Òre embarrassing. Overcome the need for self-expression but not the need to rise in literary circles. Poems about ^ÓI^Ôs in trouble tend to be less innovative than poems about ^ÓI^Ôs who are just chilling. Subvert the position of the monolinear ^ÓI^Ô but be sure to leave your subjectivity intact. To achieve universality, hide your subjectivity and deny the value of the self. Don^Òt express your subjectivity in a poem (prose is okay). However, all poems will be judged according to structures of race, class, gender and sexuality. Try not to write or talk about your parents, except in interviews. By speaking for no one but for those who speak of it, the ideology of co-authoring speaks for all. Anomie is a form of utopia. Indulge in alienation. Take great pride in being estranged. It proves you^Òre an intellectual and different than the masses. Act like you understand critical theory -- that way people will respect you. Try to hybridize your discourse by enlivening it with terms like ^Ócreolization.^Ô Using words like ^Óplural,^Ô ^Ómultivalent^Ô and ^Ópolysemous^Ô shows how open-minded and widely learned you are. When one writes innovative digital poetry one is subverting the economic, social and psychological paradigms and regimes promoted and maintained by conglomerates like Microsoft and Time Warner. One is resisting conventional ways of thinking and feeling just like Gertrude Stein did. The Modernist avant-garde adopted the techniques and rhythms of mechanical reproduction in order to pave the way for their domination. Use the technology but don^Òt question it. Unite with the technology and put an end to the alienation you encounter in the world at large. We are the servants of the computerized medium -- not the other way around. If you do use the ^ÓI^Ô it can only refer to yourself, but quote Rimbaud^Òs ^ÓI is an other^Ô ^Ö you know the drill ^Ö to throw the reader off guard. The ^ÓI^Ô will always refer to the author (who is dead, not alive, but still getting checks in the mail) so no one should use it except in certain survival scenarios: ^ÓGive it up, I was a track star for Mineola Prep!^Ô Be alienated but don^Òt be a victim. We live in a victim culture and too many people are complaining. If you^Òre white, male or educated you needn^Òt whine except about other people whining. Slam poetry is a vulgar folk art but will serve as a useful category in Performance Studies book. Art that is purely formal will not result in a period style. Those who write lyrical poetry are being sentimental. Those who look back on the Modernist moment as the golden age of radical linguistic practice are not. The Language poets were not Romantic in their supposition that the subversion of normative syntactical relations would undermine oppressive social relations. The Language poets did not want to re-legislate the world. A text of alternative textuality always makes a good innovative poem. The notion of a text of alternative textuality making a good innovative poem is an interesting and radical notion of what a poem is and could be. Representation is phallocentric. The phallus cannot be represented (on TV). Make up a name for a new kind of poetry and hold a conference on it. Presto, you^Òre an expert. Try to find words embedded in other words (an unexplored niche!) Call your poetry ^Ócognitive music.^Ô If someone points out that it isn^Òt very musical or rhythmic, call it ^Ónoise.^Ô By creating a poetry analogous to Muzak or (background) noise one is creating a poetry that motivates the reader to focus on every word. Speak or write in an obdurate utopian discourse and when someone points out how you ridiculous you sound, say you were being ironic. Rail against the academy but complain when academics don^Òt invite you to their conferences. Interview all your poet-friends because you have little else to offer. When a really good poet dies, immediately call for a conference to be held on their work at the next MLA soiree. That way you can claim intellectual spokesmanship for their corpus. Collaborate to transcend your ego and then tell us all about it. Get rid of the ego to call attention to yourself. Meaning is a hindrance to the liberation of the sign^Òs materiality from its division of labor in the signifying function. This is not a mystifying, pseudo-materialist, technocratic notion of language but based on hard historical evidence that certain forms of language are essentially oppressive. Quote yourself at the beginning of every chapter in your book on digital poetry. By quoting two other people no one will notice. Decry the use of personal experiences as subject matter for poetry by calling them selfish ^Ólifestyle elements.^Ô Poems that refer to or describe discrete events are anecdotal. Non-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of distinguishing textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal re-telling of human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of events, a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent (or at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of the certainty of semantic meaning. An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic. Endlessly theorize about a medium that is just getting started but don^Òt criticize it that much (it^Òs just getting started!) Say your poems are all about desire but never about the desire for a particular person, animal, body part, sexual position/experience, affordable housing, warm meal, etc. How different is ginger ale when drinking from a crystal flute compared to a styrofoam cup. These and other similar dynamics inform innovative practice. Never define materialist practice, materialist poetics or aesthetico-materialist critique. Let the reader make up the meaning. The goal of digital poetry is a wealth of media and a poverty of expression. Nobody believes in poetry enough to die for it anymore, which is a shame. But avoid being too serious ^Ö that brooding, agonizing ^Ódark night of the soul^Ô act will get you nowhere. Poetry^Òs just a game anyway. Even though it is an accomplished fact, the Revolution of the Word must go on. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:51:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: cease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII :sloth, i can't wake up day after day, sleep half of it away, trying to seize employment in the rest, we're leaving the end of the month, working on the phenomenology of approach vis-a-vis the everglades, their entanglement and working one's way through them into sensibility, my sleeps are dreamless, the hospital did a follow-up phone-call, there were three calls this morning, i don't remember, all about leaving, everything about withdrawal, i imagine florida in diminution, the phenomenology of withdrawal, from the known to the vector of the road, i continue writing, imaging, taping, my arms leave me, i am heavy, redolent, fecund with the smell of death ==::attacked in our sleep we will disappear, attacked in our sleep, the sounds of night continue with the murmuring of plants and animals everywhere in the world, the world is a giant hospital, the world is a phone-call, a war, the world is redolent with pain and sleeping animals, nothing disappearing, nothing emerging, the phenomenology of quietude against incandescent horizons ==:last night we went back into the thicket on another night-trip, pale white spiders, activities among the glade-bugs, small cricket frog, of all two sleeping anoles on leaves, their legs were stretched out, back against their small bodies, sluggish and comfortable, almost nothing moving, some barking dogs, they're wild elsewhere in the thicket, the weight of the thicket soft upon us, elsewhere the violent and bloody war, o anoles sleep through it, o anoles survive our dark incursion, o anoles humans shall leave this burned and violated earth, o anoles sleep well, i will sleep with you, dying in my sleep, attacked in our sleep == 'we are staying to guard this holy place, but we are not being held against oted 'electronMessage 25 marked for ur will' == monk in bethlehem == and fellowship _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:10:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: 2d coming = Spiritus Americi In-Reply-To: <004601c1e0a3$d42e9c00$6e01a8c0@verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed gee whiz...I don't recollect claiming Yeats for America. see below for proof. geoffrey...gotta problem? Gene At 11:24 AM 4/10/02 -0400, you wrote: > Since when has Yeats been an American poet??? I think it's a >nice idea to colonize his work > > The American cannot hear his America > Things fall, the shopping center cannot hold > > > Best, Geoffrey > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of gene >Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:48 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Fwd: 2d coming > > >Subject: 2d coming > >Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:41:41 -0400 > >X-MS-Has-Attach: > >X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: > >Thread-Topic: 2d coming > >Thread-Index: AcHf/pI7+hygQ9c2QLSl5acElsYIcw== > >From: "Grabiner, Gene" > >To: > > > >The Second Coming W. B. Yeats > > > > > > Turning and turning in the widening gyre > > The falcon cannot hear the falconer; > > Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; > > Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, > > The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere > > The ceremony of innocence is drowned; > > The best lack all conviction, while the worst > > Are full of passionate intensity. > > > > Surely some revelation is at hand; > > Surely the Second Coming is at hand. > > The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out > > When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi > > Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert > > A shape with lion body and the head of a man, > > A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, > > Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it > > Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds. > > The darkness drops again; but now I know > > That twenty centuries of stony sleep > > Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, > > And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, > > Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:10:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: [ImitaPo] Who -- we are all very proud of him in Buffalo In-Reply-To: <004801c1e0a4$cdb60100$6e01a8c0@verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed aha..another judgement from our resident critic. Gene At 11:31 AM 4/10/02 -0400, you wrote: > Hi, Carl Dennis lives in Buffalo and teaches at UB. He writes >happy go lucky crap which looks and feels like poetry. I can't believe >its not poetry??? NO its very good main stream stuff. If he wasn't doing >his thing then we shouldn't be doing ours. So we are all very proud of >him in Buffalo. > > Best, Geoffrey Gatza > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: anastasios@hell.com [mailto:anastasios@hell.com] >Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:04 AM >To: imitationpoetics@topica.com >Subject: [ImitaPo] Who > >Imitation Poetics >imitationpoetics@topica.com >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >is Carl Dennis? > >_____________________________________________________________ >http://HELL.COM > > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Imitation Poetics web site: >http://www.topica.com/lists/imitationpoetics/ > >==^================================================================ >This email was sent to: ggatza@daemen.edu > >EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bUrJ6z.bVxDEG >Or send an email to: imitationpoetics-unsubscribe@topica.com > >T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! >http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register >==^================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:19:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: New Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Moving Still Poems by Leonard Brink ISBN 1-881471-89-6 Spuyten Duyvil PO Box 1852 Cathedral Station NYC 10025 http://spuytenduyvil.net As the title suggests, Leonard Brink is a metaphysical poet. In his = poems, word jostles thought, matter is a "category of ideas," the ghost = is not in but is the machine. The poems move, still move, and are still. --Keith Waldrop This is a poetry that is steadfast at its core, while its surfaces, its = "higher planes," so to speak, wander through time, space, and language. = Up there, the density of these surfaces search out their own depths. -- Elizabeth Robinson Leonard Brink's poems bend seemingly linear lines of reflection into = unique knots of tautology and reversal which think with, rather than = against, contradiction. --Craig Watson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:25:02 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: [ImitaPo] Who -- we are all very proud of him in Buffalo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Goeffrey. Please define "crap"...I'm having dificulties: please no witticisms about constipated mathematicians. Do you know that one? I suspect Carl Dennis is in fact a genius. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Gatza" To: Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:31 AM Subject: Re: [ImitaPo] Who -- we are all very proud of him in Buffalo > Hi, Carl Dennis lives in Buffalo and teaches at UB. He writes > happy go lucky crap which looks and feels like poetry. I can't believe > its not poetry??? NO its very good main stream stuff. If he wasn't doing > his thing then we shouldn't be doing ours. So we are all very proud of > him in Buffalo. > > Best, Geoffrey Gatza > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: anastasios@hell.com [mailto:anastasios@hell.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:04 AM > To: imitationpoetics@topica.com > Subject: [ImitaPo] Who > > Imitation Poetics > imitationpoetics@topica.com > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > is Carl Dennis? > > _____________________________________________________________ > http://HELL.COM > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Imitation Poetics web site: > http://www.topica.com/lists/imitationpoetics/ > > ==^================================================================ > This email was sent to: ggatza@daemen.edu > > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bUrJ6z.bVxDEG > Or send an email to: imitationpoetics-unsubscribe@topica.com > > T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register > ==^================================================================ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:53:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: phenomenology of approach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = phenomenology of approach = categories for projected text = = approaching the everglades, the city, illness, language, culture = 1 domain limited or unlimited 2 clues and cues from immemorial past 3 difference between clues and cues 4 relevance theory and approach 5 top-down classification schema 6 wonder, innovation, contradictions 7 deep ecologies, interstitial 8 filling in the habitus 9 from anomaly to behaviors 10 sense of occupation and intimacy 11 familiarity, familiality 12 maternality 13 deconstruction of the abject 14 phenomenology of naming 15 inarticulate inchoate 16 the mess and its overcoming 17 phenomenology of touch 18 recirculation of domain 19 immersive and definable structures 20 clue skeins 21 the instrumental reason of flows and part-objects 22 gestural logics and superimpositions 23 delaying conclusions and the settling-in of elements 24 continuous processing and absorption of anomalies 25 modes of approach in space and time 26 horizons of 'natural' and 'unnatural' worlds 27 weakening of perceptual structures and responses 28 releasement and listening 29 buildings, dwellings, and habitations 30 the neighborhood 31 intersecting populations and worlds 32 phenomenology of withdrawal 33 the skein (skew-orthogonal) 34 the skein (askew and local) 35 increasing audacity and circumscription 36 the report 37 the distribution 38 the thinking of it 39 the world of it _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: POETRY PROJECT EVENTS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit POETRY PROJECT ANNOUNCEMENTS Visit our BOOKS FOR SALE web page to view an updated, complete listing of titles you won't find anywhere else! http://www.poetryproject.com/booksale.html Please visit the April issue of POETS & POEMS, featuring work by Renee Gladman, Jena Osman, Sawako Nakayasu, and collaborations by Jen Bervin and Alystyre Julian. http://www.poetryproject.com/poets.html CALENDAR OF EVENTS APRIL 12, FRIDAY [10:30 pm] BLACK TOOK: THE WILD READING APRIL 15, MONDAY [8:00 pm] VERONICA CORPUZ AND RODRIGO TOSCANO APRIL 17, WEDNESDAY [8:00 p.m.] GEORGE ECONOMOU, ROCHELLE OWENS, AND KAZUKO SHIRAISHI APRIL 19, FRIDAY [10:30 pm] THE ARTIST AND THE STAGE http:wwww.poetryproject.com/calendar.html. *************************** APRIL 12, FRIDAY [10:30 pm] BLACK TOOK: THE WILD READING DAWN LUNDY MARTIN, DURIEL E. HARRIS, RONALDO V. WILSON AND R. ERICA DOYLE. This linguistic interactive performance will foreground race and racelessness, sex and sexuality, and other bodily perversities. All attendees will receive free Coon Journals to record their racialized/sexualized experiences. APRIL 15, MONDAY [8:00 pm] VERONICA CORPUZ AND RODRIGO TOSCANO VERONICA CORPUZ is currently the Program Assistant at The Poetry Project and editor of Poets & Poems, the Project's online journal. Forthcoming work will appear in the next issues of Aufgabe and Shiny. RODRIGO TOSCANO is the author of Partisans (O Books), The Disparities (Green Integer), and Platform (Atelos, forthcoming). Fanny Howe writes: "Rodrigo's poems have emerged as serious, serial shots at the dark..." He lives in NYC where he works at the Labor Institute. APRIL 17, WEDNESDAY [8:00 p.m.] GEORGE ECONOMOU, ROCHELLE OWENS, AND KAZUKO SHIRAISHI Translations for Shiraishi read by SAMUEL GROLMES and YUMIKO TSUMURA GEORGE ECONOMOU has published 7 books of poetry, including Landed Natures (Black Sparrow), Ameriki (Sun Press) and most recently, Century Dead Center (Left Hand Books). The San Francisco Review of Books writes "Delicate and fast, but holding, in the same way that the Greek lyrics hold, a moment of telling that moment in song. It is the thing seen and felt that Economou sings and tells and shares. This is what makes a fine lyric." A pioneer in the experimental off-Broadway theatre movement, ROCHELLE OWENS is the author of 16 books of poetry and plays and has received several Village Voice Obie Awards and Honors from the NY Drama Critics Circle. Marjorie Perloff writes on Owens: "In its uncompromising savagery, its passionate rejection of sentimentality, its black humor, and its sheer outrageousness, Rochelle Owens' lyric voice is unique among contemporary poets." KAZUKO SHIRAISHI's latest volume of translations, Let Those Who Appear, contains selections from various recently-published books as translated by Yumiko Tsumura and Samuel Grolmes. The title poem is from Shiraishi's 1996 book which received three prestigious awards in Japan--the Takami Jun Poetry Award, the Yomiuri Literature Award, and the Purple Ribbon Medal from the Emperor of Japan. APRIL 19, FRIDAY [10:30 pm] THE ARTIST AND THE STAGE In two parts actors interpret interview transcripts between artists and interviewers featured in The Journal of Contemporary Art, Vol. 7.2 (1995). Actors will explore the exchanges between artist Annette Messager and Natasha Leoff. Directors Caitlin Gibbon, Willie Doughterty and Tim Maul, and Jay Ward. Performance artist and actor Chris Kaufman will present his 25 minute, one-man show, Nhar. (For more info on Chris Kaufman go to http://www.harringtonkaufman.com.) -- Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. Trains F, 6, N, R. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. If you are currently on our email list and would like to be on our regular mailing list (so you can receive a sample issue of The Poetry Project Newsletter for FREE), just reply to this email with your full name and address. Hope to hear from you soon!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:22:22 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: phenomenology of approach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan. I like the ideaa of this: the method and the phrasal. Richard. Reminds me of a non fiction book ny Perec...Species of Spaces...maybe nothing to do with it but it does... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 2:53 AM Subject: phenomenology of approach > = > > > phenomenology of approach > > > = categories for projected text = > = approaching the everglades, the city, illness, language, culture = > > 1 domain limited or unlimited > 2 clues and cues from immemorial past > 3 difference between clues and cues > 4 relevance theory and approach > 5 top-down classification schema > 6 wonder, innovation, contradictions > 7 deep ecologies, interstitial > 8 filling in the habitus > 9 from anomaly to behaviors > 10 sense of occupation and intimacy > 11 familiarity, familiality > 12 maternality > 13 deconstruction of the abject > 14 phenomenology of naming > 15 inarticulate inchoate > 16 the mess and its overcoming > 17 phenomenology of touch > 18 recirculation of domain > 19 immersive and definable structures > 20 clue skeins > 21 the instrumental reason of flows and part-objects > 22 gestural logics and superimpositions > 23 delaying conclusions and the settling-in of elements > 24 continuous processing and absorption of anomalies > 25 modes of approach in space and time > 26 horizons of 'natural' and 'unnatural' worlds > 27 weakening of perceptual structures and responses > 28 releasement and listening > 29 buildings, dwellings, and habitations > 30 the neighborhood > 31 intersecting populations and worlds > 32 phenomenology of withdrawal > 33 the skein (skew-orthogonal) > 34 the skein (askew and local) > 35 increasing audacity and circumscription > 36 the report > 37 the distribution > 38 the thinking of it > 39 the world of it > > > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:04:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: phenomenology of approach In-Reply-To: <000e01c1e16c$adc87e40$50e236d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Probably does have something to do with it. There's Schutz, Bachelard, Lefevre, for examples (spelling might be off here). Schutz developed relevance theory; Bachelard works with space, corner, shell, sound, fire, etc.; Lefevre has a work on phenomenology of space. This stuff also goes back to Hall and Gibson in terms of personal space and perception. But what I'm interested in is _approach_ which involves a dialectic between partial structures, steering structures, etc., and an anomalous and poorly-defined domain. How, out of this, does knowledge emerge? When one walks in the Everglades at night, how does one orient oneself? There's also the work in AI by the way - Schank and Abelson on scripts and goals, etc. - Alan Internet text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm CDROM of collected work 1994-2002 available: write sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:53:24 GMT Reply-To: ggatza@daemen.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: [ImitaPo] Who -- we are all very proud of him in Buffalo Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Richard, I agree that he has genius and should be supported by the Pulitzer committee and I am sincere in my pride of a local poet who made good. He lives down the street from me so 'way to go!' At least its not that awful Irving Feldman guy who won. But Dennis's poety comes from a stand point of poet as dispenser of truth. I hate this component, as he comes from a point of 'your confused life will be better if you listen to this poem. His prize winning book is filled with it. I can't quote from it as I didn't buy it, only read over coffee at the book shop. The poet is not priest and shouldn't take that kind of position in my opinion, which crap is an opinionated response to a full, complex body of work which I do not appreciate and strive in my works to undo. A professor of mine says, Dennis's poety will always be appreciated as long as there are world almanacs Best, Geoffrey PS -- I haven't heard the constipated mathematicians joke :-) On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:25:02 +1200 "richard.tylr" wrote: > Dear Goeffrey. Please define "crap"...I'm having dificulties: please no > witticisms about constipated mathematicians. Do you know that one? I > suspect Carl Dennis is in fact a genius. Regards, Richard. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoffrey Gatza" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:31 AM > Subject: Re: [ImitaPo] Who -- we are all very proud of him in Buffalo > > > > Hi, Carl Dennis lives in Buffalo and teaches at UB. He writes > > happy go lucky crap which looks and feels like poetry. I can't believe > > its not poetry??? NO its very good main stream stuff. If he wasn't doing > > his thing then we shouldn't be doing ours. So we are all very proud of > > him in Buffalo. > > > > Best, Geoffrey Gatza > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: anastasios@hell.com [mailto:anastasios@hell.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:04 AM > > To: imitationpoetics@topica.com > > Subject: [ImitaPo] Who > > > > Imitation Poetics > > imitationpoetics@topica.com > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > is Carl Dennis? > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > http://HELL.COM > > > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Imitation Poetics web site: > > http://www.topica.com/lists/imitationpoetics/ > > > > ==^================================================================ > > This email was sent to: ggatza@daemen.edu > > > > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bUrJ6z.bVxDEG > > Or send an email to: imitationpoetics-unsubscribe@topica.com > > > > T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! > > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register > > ==^================================================================ > > This message powered by EMUMAIL. -- http://www.EMUMAIL.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:57:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Stephens Subject: Fw: Friday, April 12th, 7 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you're around Friday... Rebels Rebel: Editors of Experimental Poetry in Discussion=20 Friday, April 12, 7 pm, Poet's House, 72 Spring Street, Second Floor | = New York, N.Y. 10012 (212) 431-7920 | info@poetshouse.org $7, Poets House and CLMP Members Free=20 Emerging and veteran pioneers of the avant-garde consider the = challenges and responsibilities of their role as editorial gatekeepers = of the new. With Lee Ann Brown, publisher of Tender Buttons; Rachel = Levitsky of Belladonna, a feminist-experimental-poetic publisher; Ravi = Shankar, publisher of www.drunkenboat.com and Geoffrey Young, publisher = of The Figures.=20 Moderated by Jeffrey Lependorf, Executive Director of CLMP.=20 Co-sponsored by CLMP as part of their Contents Under Pressure Series.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:11:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matthew Garite Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ah, yes. How reassuring--the Thermidor response. >From: david hess >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:42:53 -0400 > >POETRY AS SOCIAL PRACTICE: TIPS AND SLOGANS > > >All poetry is easily classifiable into the categories of innovative and >non-innovative. Digital poetry is innovative. > >The cultural status quo lies in the act of not engaging the materiality of >the medium of writing. Culture is now progressing through innovation. > >There are serious benefits to reading digital text as a material mode of >making shaped by institutional and ideological concerns. Electronic >literature must have a canon now! > >It is important to engage in practice that provides a critique of the >cultural status quo and of our ways of reading as an apparatus of that >status quo. The point of poetry is to create a poetry that is a material >ideological practice. > >Digital poetry is engaged in material struggle. It is innovative. It shows >that the most important part of poetry is the materiality of the medium. > >The reader will be your sidekick if you ignore her and engage the >materiality of the medium of writing. Innovative poetry asks, ?Won?t you be >my co-author?? > >Computers are perfect machines. They will solve the problem of the ?I? if >we >let them. > >All hail the episteme of the Intel processor! All sensuality to the >machine! >All eroticism to the keyboard! > >Integrate into the data stream. Don?t touch the hard drive. > >There is a war going on between print and digital textualities. Whose side >are you on? Print is static and the digital medium fluid. Don?t be static, >be fluid. > >The typewriter has taken you hostage. If you use a typewriter, you?re a >has-been. > >Digital poetry hacks into the mainstream of the cultural status quo, >reworking the operating system of our ideological habits. For instance, the >digital poet gives the author function a pink slip. Goodbye author >function, >hello writing machine. > >.... > >DIA[L-A]-LOG(IC) > >Writing machine: ?Hi.? > >Digital poet: ?Hi, writing machine! Let?s get naked and engage the >materiality of your medium.? > >Writing machine: ?Hi.? > >Digital poet (clearing throat): ?Uh, I said, ?Let?s get naked.? Don?t you >understand commands? You?re a computer!? > >Writing machine: ?Wha?? > >Digital poet (throwing arms into the air): ?Oh, at last! It?s alive. You >have spoken. Now give me the ten digital commandments and I?ll be spoken >too. I?ll be Moses and your microchips will be my tablets.? > >Writing machine: ?Wha?? > >Digital poet (whispering): ?I?ve got some algorithms in my car. I thought >we >could, you know, go back to my place and collaborate.? > >Writing machine: ?Hi.? > >Digital poet (pounding fists on desk): ?Look, I don?t have all day. Show me >your indeterminacy or I?m logging off!? > >Writing machine: ?Error message: Page Expired.? > >Digital poet: ?I love expired pages! Oh yeah, right there, such massive >pixels, run them through my silken hair.? > >.... > >If you do not engage the medium, you can?t be an innovative poet. You must >qualify the emphasis on the ?I? in the making of a poem or you can?t be >part >of my innovative digital poet group, either. > >The use of multiple ?I?s marks poetry as innovative. People who have dark >skin pigment are less than human. > >I love poetry, books and language but I don?t love meaning. Meaning sucks. >It has the word ?me? in it. > >In our history of literary teleologies, narrative has no future. > >One can never be outside society. Community is total. The informatics of >discourse shall replace community. All social problems will be solved >digitally. Polis is Pentium Pros. > >Nature is immoral. It doesn?t even exist, which is the greatest immorality >of all. Don?t let it inspire you. > >Attraction is pure construct. All marriages are arranged. Good feelings are >suspect. > >Don?t follow your bliss; follow a reading list. > >Sense perception is an illusion, so stop writing from your experience. Got >that, class? > >We no longer have bodies; we have biounits. We no longer have words; we >have >quotons. We no longer have cultures, we have institutions. > >Technology, especially digital technology, is more innovative than >everything else, including chickens. Poems on the World Wide Web taste >better, more like chicken, than poems on paper (they taste like fish). > >Everything exists to be on-line one day. > >The World Wide Web is a polysemous, constantly changing multi-author text, >which is to say writing, a poetics. It is not an Irish-motherfucking-Spring >commercial with flowers coming out of our collective fudge tunnel. > >Digital media is a plural, democratic space of poesis. The proper way to >spell poesis is poeioeisis. > >In cyberspace there are no slums. > >The point of neutralizing the ego is not to expand consciousness but to >engage the materiality of the medium of writing. > >Mediation and ideology shall be the only subject matter of poetry from now >on. No more striving for the infinite. No more fighting for heaven. > >Ambition equals arrogance. Introspection is solipsistic and regressive. To >be self-reflexive is to be self-absorbed. > >Individualism is anti-social. To look within oneself is apolitical. Self >will be replaced by milieu. > >We can only be sure of one thing: The truth is not attainable. All meaning >is commodified except the meaning of this statement. > >Poetry shall be automated, by us. It no longer needs humanity except to >bring it into existence. Only language and code are needed. > >Beauty shall have no seat in the pantheon of values. Beauty is dangerous in >its overpowering stimulation of the senses, in its satisfaction of a need >for harmony and delight. It is repulsive. > >The only thing that shall be celebrated is critique. Invective is verboten. > >Even though the poem-as-machine is a Modernist invention, digital poetry >based on machinic models is still innovative as hell. > >Emotions are passe -- leftovers from the age of reptiles. The unconscious >and its disturbing contents will go away if we just let it. Hopefully, >history will go away too some day. > >Emotions and shifts in tone prevent engagement with the medium. The day of >materiality is permanently at war with the night of emotion. > >The visionary and the everyday shall not lie down in the same bunk bed. >Nature and culture shall not share the same dentist. > >Love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, >Cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud is too full of anger to be >innovative. > >Uplifting, consciousness-expanding poetry is immoral. Sly and the Family >Stone were a bunch of sincere losers thinking they could unite the races >and >sexes with their music. > >Idiolectic poetry will unite the races and sexes. In the classroom at >least. > >Avoid extreme sensations. Never be unpredictable. It weirds people out and >thus is bad for business. Change is counter-productive. > >Don?t be crazy. Try to be non-normative instead. > >Be miserable. It shows everyone that you care. > >The poet?s place is in the medium exploring its materiality, making its >making. A woman?s place is in the kitchen making breakfast. > >All writing and art is a power struggle for public space. Social stature is >what matters in the end. > >If you decide to stop writing poetry say it was for economic reasons. > >Mock sincerity sincerely. Deride the need to communicate and be heard >--they?re embarrassing. Overcome the need for self-expression but not the >need to rise in literary circles. > >Poems about ?I?s in trouble tend to be less innovative than poems about >?I?s >who are just chilling. > >Subvert the position of the monolinear ?I? but be sure to leave your >subjectivity intact. To achieve universality, hide your subjectivity and >deny the value of the self. > >Don?t express your subjectivity in a poem (prose is okay). However, all >poems will be judged according to structures of race, class, gender and >sexuality. > >Try not to write or talk about your parents, except in interviews. > >By speaking for no one but for those who speak of it, the ideology of >co-authoring speaks for all. > >Anomie is a form of utopia. Indulge in alienation. Take great pride in >being >estranged. It proves you?re an intellectual and different than the masses. > >Act like you understand critical theory -- that way people will respect >you. >Try to hybridize your discourse by enlivening it with terms like >?creolization.? Using words like ?plural,? ?multivalent? and ?polysemous? >shows how open-minded and widely learned you are. > >When one writes innovative digital poetry one is subverting the economic, >social and psychological paradigms and regimes promoted and maintained by >conglomerates like Microsoft and Time Warner. One is resisting conventional >ways of thinking and feeling just like Gertrude Stein did. > >The Modernist avant-garde adopted the techniques and rhythms of mechanical >reproduction in order to pave the way for their domination. > >Use the technology but don?t question it. Unite with the technology and put >an end to the alienation you encounter in the world at large. We are the >servants of the computerized medium -- not the other way around. > >If you do use the ?I? it can only refer to yourself, but quote Rimbaud?s ?I >is an other? ? you know the drill ? to throw the reader off guard. > >The ?I? will always refer to the author (who is dead, not alive, but still >getting checks in the mail) so no one should use it except in certain >survival scenarios: ?Give it up, I was a track star for Mineola Prep!? > >Be alienated but don?t be a victim. We live in a victim culture and too >many >people are complaining. If you?re white, male or educated you needn?t whine >except about other people whining. > >Slam poetry is a vulgar folk art but will serve as a useful category in >Performance Studies book. > >Art that is purely formal will not result in a period style. > >Those who write lyrical poetry are being sentimental. Those who look back >on >the Modernist moment as the golden age of radical linguistic practice are >not. > >The Language poets were not Romantic in their supposition that the >subversion of normative syntactical relations would undermine oppressive >social relations. The Language poets did not want to re-legislate the >world. > >A text of alternative textuality always makes a good innovative poem. The >notion of a text of alternative textuality making a good innovative poem is >an interesting and radical notion of what a poem is and could be. > >Representation is phallocentric. The phallus cannot be represented (on TV). > >Make up a name for a new kind of poetry and hold a conference on it. >Presto, >you?re an expert. > >Try to find words embedded in other words (an unexplored niche!) > >Call your poetry ?cognitive music.? If someone points out that it isn?t >very >musical or rhythmic, call it ?noise.? > >By creating a poetry analogous to Muzak or (background) noise one is >creating a poetry that motivates the reader to focus on every word. > >Speak or write in an obdurate utopian discourse and when someone points out >how you ridiculous you sound, say you were being ironic. > >Rail against the academy but complain when academics don?t invite you to >their conferences. > >Interview all your poet-friends because you have little else to offer. > >When a really good poet dies, immediately call for a conference to be held >on their work at the next MLA soiree. That way you can claim intellectual >spokesmanship for their corpus. > >Collaborate to transcend your ego and then tell us all about it. Get rid of >the ego to call attention to yourself. > >Meaning is a hindrance to the liberation of the sign?s materiality from its >division of labor in the signifying function. This is not a mystifying, >pseudo-materialist, technocratic notion of language but based on hard >historical evidence that certain forms of language are essentially >oppressive. > >Quote yourself at the beginning of every chapter in your book on digital >poetry. By quoting two other people no one will notice. > >Decry the use of personal experiences as subject matter for poetry by >calling them selfish ?lifestyle elements.? Poems that refer to or describe >discrete events are anecdotal. > >Non-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of distinguishing >textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal re-telling >of >human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of events, >a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent (or >at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist >aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of the >certainty of semantic meaning. > >An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic. > >Endlessly theorize about a medium that is just getting started but don?t >criticize it that much (it?s just getting started!) > >Say your poems are all about desire but never about the desire for a >particular person, animal, body part, sexual position/experience, >affordable >housing, warm meal, etc. > >How different is ginger ale when drinking from a crystal flute compared to >a >styrofoam cup. These and other similar dynamics inform innovative practice. > >Never define materialist practice, materialist poetics or >aesthetico-materialist critique. Let the reader make up the meaning. > >The goal of digital poetry is a wealth of media and a poverty of >expression. > >Nobody believes in poetry enough to die for it anymore, which is a shame. >But avoid being too serious ? that brooding, agonizing ?dark night of the >soul? act will get you nowhere. Poetry?s just a game anyway. > >Even though it is an accomplished fact, the Revolution of the Word must go >on. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:41:16 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: reading Comments: To: "CPA Listserv@" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT The rodeo is coming to town! Join Rubber Boot Rodeo for an evening of poetry and live music to celebrate the launch of two new chapbooks. *In Vancouver* Readings by Brenda Simmers, Anna Swanson and Jill Boettger, with live music by Sarah Cheevers and Ora Cogan. Tuesday, April 16th, 7:30 pm at Café Montmartre 4362 Main (near 28th) *In Victoria* Readings by Anna Swanson, Brenda Simmers and very special guests. Saturday, April 20th, 7:30pm at the Solstice Café, 529 Pandora Admission by donation For more info email: anna_bugg@hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:25:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Clay Subject: David Antin & Charles Bernstein / Granary Books catalog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Two things: 1) We are please to announce the publication of A Conversation with David Antin by David Antin and Charles Bernstein $12.95 ISBN 1-887123-55-5 Paperback. 1/2" x 9" 128 pp. A four-month interchange between the poet/essayist Charles Bernstein and artist/poet/critic David Antin. Ideas on art, poetry, as well as Antin's transition to site-specific talk performances are discussed. The combination of the speed of electronic transmission and the rigors of writing as opposed to talking make this book, in Antin's words, "a cross between an 18th-and 21st-century text." A Conversation with David Antin presents the entirety of this dialogue between two of the most important figures on the contemporary poetry scene. 2) We have produced a catalog of all of our trade publications (new, forthcoming & recent) for the upcoming BEA [Book Expo America] convention in NYC. It is available as a PDF file. Click here to access the catalog: http://www.granarybooks.com/trade.html NOTE: the text of the catalog is optimized for printing rather than for the screen - for an optimal reading experience we advise printing out the catalog. -- Steve Clay Granary Books, Inc. 307 Seventh Ave #1401 NY NY 10001 212 337 9979 fax 212 337 9774 www.granarybooks.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:54:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: JUBILAT/HARVARD ADVOCATE/BOSTON REVIEW reading for April 13: ARIELLE GREENBERG and SARAH MANGUSO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > The JUBILAT/HARVARD ADVOCATE/BOSTON REVIEW reading > series is pleased > to feature ARIELLE GREENBERG and SARAH MANGUSO on > Saturday, April > 13th. The reading will take place from 4-6 PM at > Sever 113, in > Harvard Yard (Harvard Square T stop). For a map of > the yard, please > go to > http://www.map.harvard.edu/level2/2Yard.shtml. > > ARIELLE GREENBERG's first book, Given, will be > published by Verse > Press in the fall of 2002. Her poems have appeared > in such journals > as American Letters & Commentary, Fence, and Chain. > She is the the > former Poetry Editor of Salt Hill and a contributing > editor for How2, > an online journal of innovative women's writing. A > graduate of > Syracuse University's MFA program, Greenberg > currently teaches > English at Bentley College. > > Born in 1974, SARAH MANGUSO grew up in Massachusetts > and was educated > at Harvard University and the University of Iowa. > Her poems have > appeared in such journals as the American Poetry > Review, The Best > American Poetry, Boston Review, Chicago Review, The > New Republic, and > her book The Rider Lands in Paradise was published > by Alice James > Press in 2001. She lives in Brooklyn. > > If you have questions, please contact me at > rncasper@earthlink.net. > Thank you, and hope to see you at the reading. > > Rob Casper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:42:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: New @ Bridge Street: Back on Howe, Bok on Pataphysics, Cole, Coolidge, Debord, Faux Press, Jarnot, Mac Low, In the American Tree 2nd edition, Waldrops, Yau &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your support. Ordering & discount information at the end of this post. LED BY LANGUAGE: THE POETRY AND POETICS OF SUSAN HOWE, Rachel Tzvia Back, U Alabama, 238 pgs, $24.95. "This book will be of enormous value to students of Howe's work as well as to anyone interested in contemporary experimental poetry and poetics." --Marjorie Perloff THE ARCADES PROJECT, Walter Benjamin, Harvard, 1059 pgs $22.95. New in paperback. HYMNS OF ST. BRIDGET & OTHER WRITINGS, Bill Berkson & Frank O'Hara, Owl Press, 85 pgs, $14. "We have made ourselves cretins for Reverdy's sake. // We must all pretend to feel fine or get shot like a horse." 'PATAPHYSICS: THE POETICS OF AN IMAGINARY SCIENCE, Christian Bok, Northwestern, 133 pgs, $22.95. A long overdue critical look at a significant strain of the twentieth-century avant-garde, Bok raises important historical, cultural, and theoretical issues germane to the production and reception of poetry, the ways we think about, write, and read it, and the sorts of claims it makes on our understanding. Includes chapters on Science and Poetry, Millenial 'Pataphysics, Italian Futurism, French Oulipianism, & Canadian 'Pataphysics. SPINOZA IN HER YOUTH, Norma Cole, Omnidawn, 123 pgs, $12.95. "the museum of natural / hope labeled savage / the noise the sun makes" FAR OUT WEST, Clark Coolidge, Adventures In Poetry, 52 pgs, $12.50. "See Hoppy dance at the Wingchair Room / woody-headed as a dying duck in a thunderstorm / hope he don't die out nice / now how'd they get Rauschenberg to play Lucky?" CONSIDERATIONS ON THE ASSASINATION OF GERARD LEBOVICI, Guy Debord, 81 pgs, TamTam, $15.00. "One doesn't choose his era, although one can transform it." THREE VIETNAMESE POETS, translated by Linh Dinh, Tinfish, $9. Ngyuen Quockchanh, Phan Nhien Hao, and Van Cam Hai. "Of an imagination avoiding shapes, ejecting each thing from its spoken name / A figure is dropped into a bottomless sensation. . . Have intercourse" CONFERENCE, Stacy Doris, Potes & Poets, 95 pgs, $12.95. "The happy, unleashed Praline, free of all obligation, which reflects, with hidden lust, on the deliciousness of what's known on earth as breath, looking down from splendor, begins secretly to drip, from the weight of such a notion, down, but slowly, not all of a sudden from incorruptible to mud, but inch by inch, gathering layers, in silent losings, trading gorgeousness for garments with each slowing step, until dressed in milky shells, which is a fine armor perhaps." WESTERN CAPITAL RHAPSODIES, Marcella Durand, Faux Press, 128 pgs, $12.50. "The trends are slow. A wave row." FACTURE 2, ed Lindsay Hill & Paul Naylor, $10. Oppen, Armantrout, Silliman, McCarthy, Mossin, E Robinson, Scroggins, Spahr, Jo Bang, Snyder, Jarnot, Fischer, Lyons, McVay, Yip, F Howe, Young, O'Leary, Obenzinger, Field, Silverman, Lazer, Arguelles, Joron, Cornford, Selby, Nourbese Philip, edwards, Wright, Foss, Ramey, Davidson, Caples, Bettridge, J Olson, & Pritchett. DOVECOTE, Heather Fuller, Edge, 90 pgs, $10. (signed copies) "there the boy falls seamlessly/ and again// gutter test to catch tripleweight or/ hell// then the tailless squirrel jimmy/ crack in Birdman's hand" MY LIFE, Lyn Hejinian, Green Integer, 165 pgs, $10.95. Back in print. DIALECTIC OF ENLIGHTENMENT: PHILOSOPHICAL FRAGMENTS, Max Horkheimer & Theodor Adorno, trans Edmund Jephcott, Stanford, $21.95. "The fundamental principle of liberal philosophy was that of both/and. Today the principle of either/or seems to apply, but in such a way that the decision has already been taken for the worse." TRANSPACIFIC DISPLACEMENT: ETHNOGRAPHY, TRANSLATION, AND INTERTEXTUAL TRAVEL IN TWENTIETH CENTURY AMERICAN LITERATURE, Yunte Huang, U CA, 209 pgs $24.95. Informed by the politics of lingusitic appropriation, Transpacific Displacement opens with a radically new reading of Imagism through the work of Ezra Pound and Amy Lowell. Huang goes on to address early ethnographies of Asia, racist representations of Asians in contemporary pop culture, the countermockery of literary Orientalism by Asian American writers, and textually homogenizing tendencies in Maxine Hong Kingston's work. Articulating a vision for the furture, Huang calls for an American literary tradition rooted in transnationalism and translingual practice. ONE'S OWN LANGUAGE, Lisa Jarnot, A Curriculum of the Soul #5, 20 pgs, $9.95. Part One: My Own Language, Part Two: An A through Z of One's Own Language, Part Three: Language -- A Curriculum of Basic Elements, Part Four: A Twelve Text Eclectic Bibliography of One's Own Language STRUGGLE THROUGH, Jackson Mac Low, hole books/Tsunami editions, 30 pgs, $8. Poems derived from Andrew Levy's "Struggle Against Misery". "Lights burning the poem both source and seed / by means of the that just exists." IDEOGRAMS IN CHINA, Henri Michaux, trans Gustaf Sobin, New Directions, $9.95. "The pleasure of abstraction won out." ON MY WAY, Eileen Myles, Faux Press, $12.50. "There's a little / more going / on here / than preservation" POEMS I GUESS I WROTE, Ron Padgett, Cuz, $6.95. "Humans seem to be the only animals that enjoy clouds." QUI PARLE vol 12 # 2, Special issue on The Poetics of New Meaning guest edited by Barrett Watten, $8. Vincent Cannon, Steve Evans, Benjamin Friedlander, Sianne Ngai, Lisa Samuels, & Lytle Shaw. STUPIDITY, Avital Ronnell, U Illinois, 366 pgs, cloth, $35. "The social rigging of intelligence cannot be limited to some film-noir memory of communism projecting hostile fantasies upon capitalism." CUSPS, Jocelyn Saidenberg, Kelsey St, 56 pgs, $10. "to put it mildly unresolvable / with your own eyes / murmuring a boundary / dreadfully un" A FOUND LIFE, Elio Schneeman, Telephone, 85 pgs, $9.95. "Who can deny / the simple, undiluted / pleasures of morning?" POETRY AND THE FATE OF THE SENSES, Susan Stewart, 447 pgs, U Chicago, $22. "Her meditations on the history of poetry or the poetic are in themselves an original contribution to the philosophy of culture." --Hayden White PARATEXTUAL COMMUNITIES: AMERICAN AVANT-GARDE POETRY SINCE 1950, Susan Vanderborg, Southern Illinois University Press, 156 pgs cloth, $40. Examines the role of 'paratexts'-- notes, prefaces, marginalia, and other source documents in the shaping of poetic communities. Authors examined include Olson, Spicer, Susan Howe, Charles Bernstein, Lorenzo Thomas, & Johanna Drucker. RAYMOND ROUSSEL: THE BIOGRAPHY BY FRANCOIS CARADEC, trans Ian Monk, Atlas, 366 pgs $24.95. "Whatever the critics had to say, the show was certainly worth seeing." IN THE AMERICAN TREE, edited with a new Afterword by Ron Silliman, Natl Poetry Foundation, 611 pgs, $24.95. Grenier, Watten, Hejinian, Perleman, Day, Melnick, Palmer, Price, Robinson, Armantrout, Harryman, Bernheimer, Benson, Davidson, Mandel, Bromige, Rodefer, Coolidge, Bernstein, Weiner, Andrews, Ward, Inman, Seaton, S Howe, Dreyer, Gottlieb, Darragh, Beckett, Howe, Mason, Mayer, Davies, Hunt, Sherry, Di Palma, Greenwald, Mac Low, & Piombino. HOW TO PROCEED IN THE ARTS, Gary Sullivan, Faux Press, $12.50 "I'm sure / heaven's nice" MEMOIR 1960-1963, Tony Towle, Faux Press, $12.50. "The reader this week was Kenneth Koch, whose name, one learned, was pronounced 'Coke'." ETYM(BI)OLOGY, Liz Waldner, Omnidawn, 92 pgs $12.95. "We are wallets all to hold the loss." CECI N'EST PAS KEITH CECI N'EST PAS ROSMARIE, Keith & Rosmarie Waldrop, Burning Deck, 93 pgs, $10.00. "I don't think I was ever a believer, even far far back, when I believed I was." XCP: CROSS CULTURAL POETICS # 9: WRITING (WORKING) CLASS, ed Mark Nowak, 172 pgs, $10. Gram, Osman, Crisler, Baraka, Bryant, Toscano, Derksen, Butling, Coke, & Willis. Gallery: Paulette Myers-Rich. Reviews. BORROWED LOVE POEMS, John Yau, Penguin, 131 pgs $17. "I am the grim clubfoot executioner, Mord." Signed copies: WITH STRINGS, Charles Bernstein, $12. DRAFTS 1-38 (TOLL), Rachel Blau, DuPlessis, $17.95. A BORDER COMEDY, Lyn Hejinian, $15.95. THE LANGUAGE OF INQUIRY, Lyn Hejinian, $17.95. RING OF FIRE, Lisa Jarnot, $13. ACE, Tom Raworth, $10. MEADOW, Tom Raworth, $10. FUCK YOU -- ALOHA -- I LOVE YOU, Juliana Spahr, $12.95. EVERYBODY'S AUTONOMY: CONNECTIVE READING AND COLLECTIVE IDENTITY, Juliana Spahr, $24.95. THE BIG LIE, Mark Wallace, $7.50. Some Bestsellers: _New Collected Poems_, George Oppen, ed Michael Davidson, Preface by Eliot Weinberger, New Directions, cloth 433 pgs, $37.95. _Hatred of Capitalism: A Semiotext(e) Reader_, ed Chris Kraus & Sylvere Lotringer, Semiotext(e), 421 pgs, $16.95. _100 Multiple-Choice Questions_, John Ashbery, Adventures in Poetry, $12.50. _As Umbrellas Follow Rain_, John Ashbery, Qua Books, cloth 48 pgs, $20. _Telling it Slant: Avant-Garde Poetics of the 1990s_, ed. Mark Wallace and Steven Marks, U Alabama, 446 pgs, $29.95. _Commons__, Myung Mi Kim, U Cal, $16.95. _Open Letter: The 'Open Letter' Issue_, guest ed Louis Cabri, $7. _We Who Love to Be Astonished: Experimental Women Writers and Performance Poetics_, ed. Laura Hinton & Cynthia Hogue, U Alabama, 308 pgs, $24.95. _Sleeping with the Dictionary_, Harryette Mullen, U Cal, $14.95. _George Oppen: A Radical Practice_, O Books, Susan Thackrey, $12. _Dead Carnival_, (a novel on CD rom), Mark Wallace, $10. _Soliloquy_, Kenneth Goldsmith, Granary, $17.95 _Gardener of Stars_, Carla Harryman, Atelos, $12.95. _Veil : New and Selected Poems_, $16.95. _The Pretext_, $9.95. _Poems from Ring of Fire_, Lisa Jarnot and Jeremiah Hosea Landess, audio CD, $10. _The Historicity of Experience: Modernity, the Avant-Garde, and the Event, Krzsztof Ziarek, Northwestern, $29.95. _Tripwire 5, Expanding the Repetoire: Continuity & Change in African-American Writing_, ed Morrison & Buuck, $8. _The Good House_, Rod Smith, $6. _Empire_, Hardt & Negri, Harvard, $18.95. _Ancestors_, Kamau Brathwaite, New Directions, $35. _Digital Poetics: The Making of E-Poetries_, Loss Glazier, U Alabama, $24.95. _21st Century Modernism: The "New" Poetics_, Marjorie Perloff, Blackwell, $19.95. _Prior to Meaning: The Protosemantic and Poetics_, Steve McCaffery, Northwestern, $29.95. _Disobedience_, Alice Notley, Penguin, $18. _The Angel Hair Anthology_, ed Anne Waldman & Lewis Warsh, Granary, $18.95. _100 Days_, ed Andrea Brady & Keston Sutherland, Barque Press, $15. _New American Writing 19: Special Section on Clark Coolidge_, $!0. _Genders, Races, and Religious Cultures in Modern American Poetry 1908-1934_, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Cambridge, $22.95. _Leaving Lines of Gender: A Feminist Genealogy of Language Writing_, Ann Vickery, $24.95. _A Menorah for Athena: Charles Reznikoff and the Jewish Dilemmas of Objectivist Poetry_, Stephen Fredman, $16.95. _Joe Brainard: A Retrospective_, Constance M. Lewallen, $29.95. _The Beginner_, Lyn Hejinian, Spectacular Books, $6. _Comp._, Kevin Davies, $12.50. _Prepositions + : The Collected Critical Essays_, Louis Zukofsky, $16.95. _Modern Poetry and the Idea of Language: A Critical and Historical Study_, Gerald Bruns, $13.95. Poetics list members receive free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping + 10% discount on orders of more than $30. There are two ways to order: 1. E-mail your order to aerialedge@aol.com with your address & we will bill you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr add, order, card #, & expiration date & we will send a receipt with the books. Pease remember to include expiration date. We must charge shipping for orders out of the US. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:40:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david hess Subject: Hello Matthew Garite Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Matthew Garite, Intrigued by your description of my post as an example of "the thermidor response" I searched until I found a nice condensed definition of the word thermidor. I assume that you did not mean a bass technique or lobster dish. thûr´mdôr, Fr. trmdôr´) (KEY) , 11th month of the French Revolutionary calendar. The coup of 9 Thermidor (July 27, 1794) marked the downfall of Robespierre and the end of the Reign of Terror. The men who came into power were members of the old bourgeoisie and the newly rich who had profited from speculation and inflation. Extravagance in dress and manner prevailed. The Jacobins were suppressed, but the royalists did not gain power. The Thermidorians removed economic controls, thus unleashing inflation, and established some freedom of worship. The principal figures in the so-called Thermidorian reaction included Barras and Tallien. The period ended with the establishment of the Directory (1795). See A. Mathiez, The Thermidorian Reaction (1929, tr. 1930). --- Columbia Encyclopedia So I need a little help here. What specifically in the "Poetry as Social Practice" post strikes you as Thermidorian? What association are you making between certain kinds of poetry or, rather, certain arguments for a certain kind of poetry, with class struggle? Is "digital poetry" a revolution and the criticism of its poetics/ideology a counter-revolution? What class does digital poetry, in its current usage, speak for/represent? Like I said I need help. Thanks, Dave P.S.: Lately I've been dressing pretty casual. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:45:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:11 PM 4/11/02 -0400, you wrote: >Ah, yes. How reassuring--the Thermidor response. > > >>From: david hess >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:42:53 -0400 >> >>POETRY AS SOCIAL PRACTICE: TIPS AND SLOGANS >> >> >>All poetry is easily classifiable into the categories of innovative and >>non-innovative. Digital poetry is innovative. >> >>The cultural status quo lies in the act of not engaging the materiality of >>the medium of writing. Culture is now progressing through innovation. >> >>There are serious benefits to reading digital text as a material mode of >>making shaped by institutional and ideological concerns. Electronic >>literature must have a canon now! >> >>It is important to engage in practice that provides a critique of the >>cultural status quo and of our ways of reading as an apparatus of that >>status quo. The point of poetry is to create a poetry that is a material >>ideological practice. >> >>Digital poetry is engaged in material struggle. It is innovative. It shows >>that the most important part of poetry is the materiality of the medium. >> >>The reader will be your sidekick if you ignore her and engage the >>materiality of the medium of writing. Innovative poetry asks, ?Won?t you be >>my co-author?? >> >>Computers are perfect machines. They will solve the problem of the ?I? if >>we >>let them. >> >>All hail the episteme of the Intel processor! All sensuality to the >>machine! >>All eroticism to the keyboard! >> >>Integrate into the data stream. Don?t touch the hard drive. >> >>There is a war going on between print and digital textualities. Whose side >>are you on? Print is static and the digital medium fluid. Don?t be static, >>be fluid. >> >>The typewriter has taken you hostage. If you use a typewriter, you?re a >>has-been. >> >>Digital poetry hacks into the mainstream of the cultural status quo, >>reworking the operating system of our ideological habits. For instance, the >>digital poet gives the author function a pink slip. Goodbye author >>function, >>hello writing machine. >> >>.... >> >>DIA[L-A]-LOG(IC) >> >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? >> >>Digital poet: ?Hi, writing machine! Let?s get naked and engage the >>materiality of your medium.? >> >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? >> >>Digital poet (clearing throat): ?Uh, I said, ?Let?s get naked.? Don?t you >>understand commands? You?re a computer!? >> >>Writing machine: ?Wha?? >> >>Digital poet (throwing arms into the air): ?Oh, at last! It?s alive. You >>have spoken. Now give me the ten digital commandments and I?ll be spoken >>too. I?ll be Moses and your microchips will be my tablets.? >> >>Writing machine: ?Wha?? >> >>Digital poet (whispering): ?I?ve got some algorithms in my car. I thought >>we >>could, you know, go back to my place and collaborate.? >> >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? >> >>Digital poet (pounding fists on desk): ?Look, I don?t have all day. Show me >>your indeterminacy or I?m logging off!? >> >>Writing machine: ?Error message: Page Expired.? >> >>Digital poet: ?I love expired pages! Oh yeah, right there, such massive >>pixels, run them through my silken hair.? >> >>.... >> >>If you do not engage the medium, you can?t be an innovative poet. You must >>qualify the emphasis on the ?I? in the making of a poem or you can?t be >>part >>of my innovative digital poet group, either. >> >>The use of multiple ?I?s marks poetry as innovative. People who have dark >>skin pigment are less than human. Slip some racism in while your at it. >> >>I love poetry, books and language but I don?t love meaning. Meaning sucks. >>It has the word ?me? in it. >> >>In our history of literary teleologies, narrative has no future. >> >>One can never be outside society. Community is total. The informatics of >>discourse shall replace community. All social problems will be solved >>digitally. Polis is Pentium Pros. >> >>Nature is immoral. It doesn?t even exist, which is the greatest immorality >>of all. Don?t let it inspire you. >> >>Attraction is pure construct. All marriages are arranged. Good feelings are >>suspect. >> >>Don?t follow your bliss; follow a reading list. >> >>Sense perception is an illusion, so stop writing from your experience. Got >>that, class? >> >>We no longer have bodies; we have biounits. We no longer have words; we >>have >>quotons. We no longer have cultures, we have institutions. >> >>Technology, especially digital technology, is more innovative than >>everything else, including chickens. Poems on the World Wide Web taste >>better, more like chicken, than poems on paper (they taste like fish). >> >>Everything exists to be on-line one day. >> >>The World Wide Web is a polysemous, constantly changing multi-author text, >>which is to say writing, a poetics. It is not an Irish-motherfucking-Spring >>commercial with flowers coming out of our collective fudge tunnel. >> >>Digital media is a plural, democratic space of poesis. The proper way to >>spell poesis is poeioeisis. >> >>In cyberspace there are no slums. >> >>The point of neutralizing the ego is not to expand consciousness but to >>engage the materiality of the medium of writing. >> >>Mediation and ideology shall be the only subject matter of poetry from now >>on. No more striving for the infinite. No more fighting for heaven. >> >>Ambition equals arrogance. Introspection is solipsistic and regressive. To >>be self-reflexive is to be self-absorbed. >> >>Individualism is anti-social. To look within oneself is apolitical. Self >>will be replaced by milieu. >> >>We can only be sure of one thing: The truth is not attainable. All meaning >>is commodified except the meaning of this statement. >> >>Poetry shall be automated, by us. It no longer needs humanity except to >>bring it into existence. Only language and code are needed. >> >>Beauty shall have no seat in the pantheon of values. Beauty is dangerous in >>its overpowering stimulation of the senses, in its satisfaction of a need >>for harmony and delight. It is repulsive. >> >>The only thing that shall be celebrated is critique. Invective is verboten. >> >>Even though the poem-as-machine is a Modernist invention, digital poetry >>based on machinic models is still innovative as hell. >> >>Emotions are passe -- leftovers from the age of reptiles. The unconscious >>and its disturbing contents will go away if we just let it. Hopefully, >>history will go away too some day. >> >>Emotions and shifts in tone prevent engagement with the medium. The day of >>materiality is permanently at war with the night of emotion. >> >>The visionary and the everyday shall not lie down in the same bunk bed. >>Nature and culture shall not share the same dentist. >> >>Love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, >>Cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud is too full of anger to be >>innovative. >> >>Uplifting, consciousness-expanding poetry is immoral. Sly and the Family >>Stone were a bunch of sincere losers thinking they could unite the races >>and >>sexes with their music. >> >>Idiolectic poetry will unite the races and sexes. In the classroom at >>least. >> >>Avoid extreme sensations. Never be unpredictable. It weirds people out and >>thus is bad for business. Change is counter-productive. >> >>Don?t be crazy. Try to be non-normative instead. >> >>Be miserable. It shows everyone that you care. >> >>The poet?s place is in the medium exploring its materiality, making its >>making. A woman?s place is in the kitchen making breakfast. >> >>All writing and art is a power struggle for public space. Social stature is >>what matters in the end. >> >>If you decide to stop writing poetry say it was for economic reasons. >> >>Mock sincerity sincerely. Deride the need to communicate and be heard >>--they?re embarrassing. Overcome the need for self-expression but not the >>need to rise in literary circles. >> >>Poems about ?I?s in trouble tend to be less innovative than poems about >>?I?s >>who are just chilling. >> >>Subvert the position of the monolinear ?I? but be sure to leave your >>subjectivity intact. To achieve universality, hide your subjectivity and >>deny the value of the self. >> >>Don?t express your subjectivity in a poem (prose is okay). However, all >>poems will be judged according to structures of race, class, gender and >>sexuality. >> >>Try not to write or talk about your parents, except in interviews. >> >>By speaking for no one but for those who speak of it, the ideology of >>co-authoring speaks for all. >> >>Anomie is a form of utopia. Indulge in alienation. Take great pride in >>being >>estranged. It proves you?re an intellectual and different than the masses. >> >>Act like you understand critical theory -- that way people will respect >>you. >>Try to hybridize your discourse by enlivening it with terms like >>?creolization.? Using words like ?plural,? ?multivalent? and ?polysemous? >>shows how open-minded and widely learned you are. >> >>When one writes innovative digital poetry one is subverting the economic, >>social and psychological paradigms and regimes promoted and maintained by >>conglomerates like Microsoft and Time Warner. One is resisting conventional >>ways of thinking and feeling just like Gertrude Stein did. >> >>The Modernist avant-garde adopted the techniques and rhythms of mechanical >>reproduction in order to pave the way for their domination. >> >>Use the technology but don?t question it. Unite with the technology and put >>an end to the alienation you encounter in the world at large. We are the >>servants of the computerized medium -- not the other way around. >> >>If you do use the ?I? it can only refer to yourself, but quote Rimbaud?s ?I >>is an other? ? you know the drill ? to throw the reader off guard. >> >>The ?I? will always refer to the author (who is dead, not alive, but still >>getting checks in the mail) so no one should use it except in certain >>survival scenarios: ?Give it up, I was a track star for Mineola Prep!? >> >>Be alienated but don?t be a victim. We live in a victim culture and too >>many >>people are complaining. If you?re white, male or educated you needn?t whine >>except about other people whining. >> >>Slam poetry is a vulgar folk art but will serve as a useful category in >>Performance Studies book. >> >>Art that is purely formal will not result in a period style. >> >>Those who write lyrical poetry are being sentimental. Those who look back >>on >>the Modernist moment as the golden age of radical linguistic practice are >>not. >> >>The Language poets were not Romantic in their supposition that the >>subversion of normative syntactical relations would undermine oppressive >>social relations. The Language poets did not want to re-legislate the >>world. >> >>A text of alternative textuality always makes a good innovative poem. The >>notion of a text of alternative textuality making a good innovative poem is >>an interesting and radical notion of what a poem is and could be. >> >>Representation is phallocentric. The phallus cannot be represented (on TV). >> >>Make up a name for a new kind of poetry and hold a conference on it. >>Presto, >>you?re an expert. >> >>Try to find words embedded in other words (an unexplored niche!) >> >>Call your poetry ?cognitive music.? If someone points out that it isn?t >>very >>musical or rhythmic, call it ?noise.? >> >>By creating a poetry analogous to Muzak or (background) noise one is >>creating a poetry that motivates the reader to focus on every word. >> >>Speak or write in an obdurate utopian discourse and when someone points out >>how you ridiculous you sound, say you were being ironic. >> >>Rail against the academy but complain when academics don?t invite you to >>their conferences. >> >>Interview all your poet-friends because you have little else to offer. >> >>When a really good poet dies, immediately call for a conference to be held >>on their work at the next MLA soiree. That way you can claim intellectual >>spokesmanship for their corpus. >> >>Collaborate to transcend your ego and then tell us all about it. Get rid of >>the ego to call attention to yourself. >> >>Meaning is a hindrance to the liberation of the sign?s materiality from its >>division of labor in the signifying function. This is not a mystifying, >>pseudo-materialist, technocratic notion of language but based on hard >>historical evidence that certain forms of language are essentially >>oppressive. >> >>Quote yourself at the beginning of every chapter in your book on digital >>poetry. By quoting two other people no one will notice. >> >>Decry the use of personal experiences as subject matter for poetry by >>calling them selfish ?lifestyle elements.? Poems that refer to or describe >>discrete events are anecdotal. >> >>Non-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of distinguishing >>textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal re-telling >>of >>human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of events, >>a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent (or >>at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist >>aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of the >>certainty of semantic meaning. >> >>An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic. >> >>Endlessly theorize about a medium that is just getting started but don?t >>criticize it that much (it?s just getting started!) >> >>Say your poems are all about desire but never about the desire for a >>particular person, animal, body part, sexual position/experience, >>affordable >>housing, warm meal, etc. >> >>How different is ginger ale when drinking from a crystal flute compared to >>a >>styrofoam cup. These and other similar dynamics inform innovative practice. >> >>Never define materialist practice, materialist poetics or >>aesthetico-materialist critique. Let the reader make up the meaning. >> >>The goal of digital poetry is a wealth of media and a poverty of >>expression. >> >>Nobody believes in poetry enough to die for it anymore, which is a shame. >>But avoid being too serious ? that brooding, agonizing ?dark night of the >>soul? act will get you nowhere. Poetry?s just a game anyway. >> >>Even though it is an accomplished fact, the Revolution of the Word must go >>on. >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:37:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Baseball issue pub party 4/14 NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Boog City presents the Baseball issue Sunday April 14, 6:37 p.m. the Zinc Bar 90 W. Houston St. (off La Guardia Pl.) NYC $4 free Bazooka, Cracker Jacks, and Baseball Cards and (now that I have your attention) readings from issue six of Boog City including Bill Luoma, Carol Mirakove, and Elinor Nauen, among others an excerpt from the classic United Artists baseball book "Yo-Yos with Money" by Ted Berrigan and Harris Schiff being read by Ed Berrigan and Schiff live ballpark music performed by our organist Daniel Saltzman and deluxe pinch hitters stepping up to the dish (think Manny Mota with some power) one of whom could be you (bring your own or someone else's baseball words, and you could be called on when the pitcher's due up in the bottom of the 8th. three minutes or less please. thanks) and all sorts of other hijinks (our national anthem may be rewritten and performed, if her voice has recovered, by a Brooklyn poet who speaks Japanese and sings like an angel, but I've said too much already) brought to you by your hosts baseball issue editor and Zinc Bar curator Douglas Rothschild and Boog City editor David A. Kirschenbaum for more information 212-206-8899 editor@boogcity.com --------- issue six of Boog City, the baseball issue, includes work on baseball from the following: Tom Devaney * Don Byrd and Pierre Joris * Elinor Nauen * Ed Smith * Bill Luoma * Andrew Schelling * Angela Bowering * George Bowering * Lawrence Ferlinghetti * Kevin Gallagher * Owen Hill * Marcella Durand * Ann Elliot Sherman * Carol Mirakove * Sharon Mesmer * David Hadbawnik and Greg Fuchs on our other national pastime, war Stacee Sledge on The Mysteries of Life the debut of our comics section, edited by Gary Sullivan with work from Josh Neufeld and Javelin P and a review of the 9/11 comics collections by Sullivan and poetry from Philip Good, Chris Martin, and Stephen Paul Miller now up to 20 pages to serve you better Copies are available to the first 100 respondents to this here email for free, simply send an 8.5" x 11" $1.04 sase to the below address, attn: Boog City 6. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 351 W.24th St., Suite 19E NY, NY 10011-1510 T: (212) 206-8899 F: (212) 206-9982 editor@boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:51:45 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gene. your a genus. richard digital soup sippy bittyy bitchy six sex finger and what's a man doin on a comp and whats that ol' typrighter? whose that old type-poke? whose got a right typer lets get into a bit of emotin' for a mechanical moment lets get into metal metal lets lets feel things File Thing which bit is you? which byte is my bite? perfection who put the station in perfection who put the infection in: the tin who put it in? a man's place is hiding in a hedge: a man's place is in a CD Rom or a DC Dos or maybe in the finger soup: what do YOU think Digital Digitalis me old cyber soul? (lets commit a crime lets exchange our digital flow: fluent flickering flow) all them electrons spinnin where oh where did all them pefec' elekchons go? oh, if only i knowed what a thermidor was oh, then i'd be very happy...oh. oh. i'd be brainy. ha ha!! [Insert lots of big important looking words at this point in the POAM] This could be the begginnninnn of somethin' great! gee. goody. --- Original Message ----- From: "gene" To: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:45 PM Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans > At 02:11 PM 4/11/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Ah, yes. How reassuring--the Thermidor response. > > > > > >>From: david hess > >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >>Subject: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans > >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:42:53 -0400 > >> > >>POETRY AS SOCIAL PRACTICE: TIPS AND SLOGANS > >> > >> > >>All poetry is easily classifiable into the categories of innovative and > >>non-innovative. Digital poetry is innovative. > >> > >>The cultural status quo lies in the act of not engaging the materiality of > >>the medium of writing. Culture is now progressing through innovation. > >> > >>There are serious benefits to reading digital text as a material mode of > >>making shaped by institutional and ideological concerns. Electronic > >>literature must have a canon now! > >> > >>It is important to engage in practice that provides a critique of the > >>cultural status quo and of our ways of reading as an apparatus of that > >>status quo. The point of poetry is to create a poetry that is a material > >>ideological practice. > >> > >>Digital poetry is engaged in material struggle. It is innovative. It shows > >>that the most important part of poetry is the materiality of the medium. > >> > >>The reader will be your sidekick if you ignore her and engage the > >>materiality of the medium of writing. Innovative poetry asks, ?Won?t you be > >>my co-author?? > >> > >>Computers are perfect machines. They will solve the problem of the ?I? if > >>we > >>let them. > >> > >>All hail the episteme of the Intel processor! All sensuality to the > >>machine! > >>All eroticism to the keyboard! > >> > >>Integrate into the data stream. Don?t touch the hard drive. > >> > >>There is a war going on between print and digital textualities. Whose side > >>are you on? Print is static and the digital medium fluid. Don?t be static, > >>be fluid. > >> > >>The typewriter has taken you hostage. If you use a typewriter, you?re a > >>has-been. > >> > >>Digital poetry hacks into the mainstream of the cultural status quo, > >>reworking the operating system of our ideological habits. For instance, the > >>digital poet gives the author function a pink slip. Goodbye author > >>function, > >>hello writing machine. > >> > >>.... > >> > >>DIA[L-A]-LOG(IC) > >> > >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? > >> > >>Digital poet: ?Hi, writing machine! Let?s get naked and engage the > >>materiality of your medium.? > >> > >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? > >> > >>Digital poet (clearing throat): ?Uh, I said, ?Let?s get naked.? Don?t you > >>understand commands? You?re a computer!? > >> > >>Writing machine: ?Wha?? > >> > >>Digital poet (throwing arms into the air): ?Oh, at last! It?s alive. You > >>have spoken. Now give me the ten digital commandments and I?ll be spoken > >>too. I?ll be Moses and your microchips will be my tablets.? > >> > >>Writing machine: ?Wha?? > >> > >>Digital poet (whispering): ?I?ve got some algorithms in my car. I thought > >>we > >>could, you know, go back to my place and collaborate.? > >> > >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? > >> > >>Digital poet (pounding fists on desk): ?Look, I don?t have all day. Show me > >>your indeterminacy or I?m logging off!? > >> > >>Writing machine: ?Error message: Page Expired.? > >> > >>Digital poet: ?I love expired pages! Oh yeah, right there, such massive > >>pixels, run them through my silken hair.? > >> > >>.... > >> > >>If you do not engage the medium, you can?t be an innovative poet. You must > >>qualify the emphasis on the ?I? in the making of a poem or you can?t be > >>part > >>of my innovative digital poet group, either. > >> > >>The use of multiple ?I?s marks poetry as innovative. People who have dark > >>skin pigment are less than human. Slip some racism in while your at it. > >> > >>I love poetry, books and language but I don?t love meaning. Meaning sucks. > >>It has the word ?me? in it. > >> > >>In our history of literary teleologies, narrative has no future. > >> > >>One can never be outside society. Community is total. The informatics of > >>discourse shall replace community. All social problems will be solved > >>digitally. Polis is Pentium Pros. > >> > >>Nature is immoral. It doesn?t even exist, which is the greatest immorality > >>of all. Don?t let it inspire you. > >> > >>Attraction is pure construct. All marriages are arranged. Good feelings are > >>suspect. > >> > >>Don?t follow your bliss; follow a reading list. > >> > >>Sense perception is an illusion, so stop writing from your experience. Got > >>that, class? > >> > >>We no longer have bodies; we have biounits. We no longer have words; we > >>have > >>quotons. We no longer have cultures, we have institutions. > >> > >>Technology, especially digital technology, is more innovative than > >>everything else, including chickens. Poems on the World Wide Web taste > >>better, more like chicken, than poems on paper (they taste like fish). > >> > >>Everything exists to be on-line one day. > >> > >>The World Wide Web is a polysemous, constantly changing multi-author text, > >>which is to say writing, a poetics. It is not an Irish-motherfucking-Spring > >>commercial with flowers coming out of our collective fudge tunnel. > >> > >>Digital media is a plural, democratic space of poesis. The proper way to > >>spell poesis is poeioeisis. > >> > >>In cyberspace there are no slums. > >> > >>The point of neutralizing the ego is not to expand consciousness but to > >>engage the materiality of the medium of writing. > >> > >>Mediation and ideology shall be the only subject matter of poetry from now > >>on. No more striving for the infinite. No more fighting for heaven. > >> > >>Ambition equals arrogance. Introspection is solipsistic and regressive. To > >>be self-reflexive is to be self-absorbed. > >> > >>Individualism is anti-social. To look within oneself is apolitical. Self > >>will be replaced by milieu. > >> > >>We can only be sure of one thing: The truth is not attainable. All meaning > >>is commodified except the meaning of this statement. > >> > >>Poetry shall be automated, by us. It no longer needs humanity except to > >>bring it into existence. Only language and code are needed. > >> > >>Beauty shall have no seat in the pantheon of values. Beauty is dangerous in > >>its overpowering stimulation of the senses, in its satisfaction of a need > >>for harmony and delight. It is repulsive. > >> > >>The only thing that shall be celebrated is critique. Invective is verboten. > >> > >>Even though the poem-as-machine is a Modernist invention, digital poetry > >>based on machinic models is still innovative as hell. > >> > >>Emotions are passe -- leftovers from the age of reptiles. The unconscious > >>and its disturbing contents will go away if we just let it. Hopefully, > >>history will go away too some day. > >> > >>Emotions and shifts in tone prevent engagement with the medium. The day of > >>materiality is permanently at war with the night of emotion. > >> > >>The visionary and the everyday shall not lie down in the same bunk bed. > >>Nature and culture shall not share the same dentist. > >> > >>Love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, > >>Cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud is too full of anger to be > >>innovative. > >> > >>Uplifting, consciousness-expanding poetry is immoral. Sly and the Family > >>Stone were a bunch of sincere losers thinking they could unite the races > >>and > >>sexes with their music. > >> > >>Idiolectic poetry will unite the races and sexes. In the classroom at > >>least. > >> > >>Avoid extreme sensations. Never be unpredictable. It weirds people out and > >>thus is bad for business. Change is counter-productive. > >> > >>Don?t be crazy. Try to be non-normative instead. > >> > >>Be miserable. It shows everyone that you care. > >> > >>The poet?s place is in the medium exploring its materiality, making its > >>making. A woman?s place is in the kitchen making breakfast. > >> > >>All writing and art is a power struggle for public space. Social stature is > >>what matters in the end. > >> > >>If you decide to stop writing poetry say it was for economic reasons. > >> > >>Mock sincerity sincerely. Deride the need to communicate and be heard > >>--they?re embarrassing. Overcome the need for self-expression but not the > >>need to rise in literary circles. > >> > >>Poems about ?I?s in trouble tend to be less innovative than poems about > >>?I?s > >>who are just chilling. > >> > >>Subvert the position of the monolinear ?I? but be sure to leave your > >>subjectivity intact. To achieve universality, hide your subjectivity and > >>deny the value of the self. > >> > >>Don?t express your subjectivity in a poem (prose is okay). However, all > >>poems will be judged according to structures of race, class, gender and > >>sexuality. > >> > >>Try not to write or talk about your parents, except in interviews. > >> > >>By speaking for no one but for those who speak of it, the ideology of > >>co-authoring speaks for all. > >> > >>Anomie is a form of utopia. Indulge in alienation. Take great pride in > >>being > >>estranged. It proves you?re an intellectual and different than the masses. > >> > >>Act like you understand critical theory -- that way people will respect > >>you. > >>Try to hybridize your discourse by enlivening it with terms like > >>?creolization.? Using words like ?plural,? ?multivalent? and ?polysemous? > >>shows how open-minded and widely learned you are. > >> > >>When one writes innovative digital poetry one is subverting the economic, > >>social and psychological paradigms and regimes promoted and maintained by > >>conglomerates like Microsoft and Time Warner. One is resisting conventional > >>ways of thinking and feeling just like Gertrude Stein did. > >> > >>The Modernist avant-garde adopted the techniques and rhythms of mechanical > >>reproduction in order to pave the way for their domination. > >> > >>Use the technology but don?t question it. Unite with the technology and put > >>an end to the alienation you encounter in the world at large. We are the > >>servants of the computerized medium -- not the other way around. > >> > >>If you do use the ?I? it can only refer to yourself, but quote Rimbaud?s ?I > >>is an other? ? you know the drill ? to throw the reader off guard. > >> > >>The ?I? will always refer to the author (who is dead, not alive, but still > >>getting checks in the mail) so no one should use it except in certain > >>survival scenarios: ?Give it up, I was a track star for Mineola Prep!? > >> > >>Be alienated but don?t be a victim. We live in a victim culture and too > >>many > >>people are complaining. If you?re white, male or educated you needn?t whine > >>except about other people whining. > >> > >>Slam poetry is a vulgar folk art but will serve as a useful category in > >>Performance Studies book. > >> > >>Art that is purely formal will not result in a period style. > >> > >>Those who write lyrical poetry are being sentimental. Those who look back > >>on > >>the Modernist moment as the golden age of radical linguistic practice are > >>not. > >> > >>The Language poets were not Romantic in their supposition that the > >>subversion of normative syntactical relations would undermine oppressive > >>social relations. The Language poets did not want to re-legislate the > >>world. > >> > >>A text of alternative textuality always makes a good innovative poem. The > >>notion of a text of alternative textuality making a good innovative poem is > >>an interesting and radical notion of what a poem is and could be. > >> > >>Representation is phallocentric. The phallus cannot be represented (on TV). > >> > >>Make up a name for a new kind of poetry and hold a conference on it. > >>Presto, > >>you?re an expert. > >> > >>Try to find words embedded in other words (an unexplored niche!) > >> > >>Call your poetry ?cognitive music.? If someone points out that it isn?t > >>very > >>musical or rhythmic, call it ?noise.? > >> > >>By creating a poetry analogous to Muzak or (background) noise one is > >>creating a poetry that motivates the reader to focus on every word. > >> > >>Speak or write in an obdurate utopian discourse and when someone points out > >>how you ridiculous you sound, say you were being ironic. > >> > >>Rail against the academy but complain when academics don?t invite you to > >>their conferences. > >> > >>Interview all your poet-friends because you have little else to offer. > >> > >>When a really good poet dies, immediately call for a conference to be held > >>on their work at the next MLA soiree. That way you can claim intellectual > >>spokesmanship for their corpus. > >> > >>Collaborate to transcend your ego and then tell us all about it. Get rid of > >>the ego to call attention to yourself. > >> > >>Meaning is a hindrance to the liberation of the sign?s materiality from its > >>division of labor in the signifying function. This is not a mystifying, > >>pseudo-materialist, technocratic notion of language but based on hard > >>historical evidence that certain forms of language are essentially > >>oppressive. > >> > >>Quote yourself at the beginning of every chapter in your book on digital > >>poetry. By quoting two other people no one will notice. > >> > >>Decry the use of personal experiences as subject matter for poetry by > >>calling them selfish ?lifestyle elements.? Poems that refer to or describe > >>discrete events are anecdotal. > >> > >>Non-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of distinguishing > >>textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal re-telling > >>of > >>human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of events, > >>a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent (or > >>at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist > >>aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of the > >>certainty of semantic meaning. > >> > >>An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic. > >> > >>Endlessly theorize about a medium that is just getting started but don?t > >>criticize it that much (it?s just getting started!) > >> > >>Say your poems are all about desire but never about the desire for a > >>particular person, animal, body part, sexual position/experience, > >>affordable > >>housing, warm meal, etc. > >> > >>How different is ginger ale when drinking from a crystal flute compared to > >>a > >>styrofoam cup. These and other similar dynamics inform innovative practice. > >> > >>Never define materialist practice, materialist poetics or > >>aesthetico-materialist critique. Let the reader make up the meaning. > >> > >>The goal of digital poetry is a wealth of media and a poverty of > >>expression. > >> > >>Nobody believes in poetry enough to die for it anymore, which is a shame. > >>But avoid being too serious ? that brooding, agonizing ?dark night of the > >>soul? act will get you nowhere. Poetry?s just a game anyway. > >> > >>Even though it is an accomplished fact, the Revolution of the Word must go > >>on. > >> > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:30:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City is moving (David Kirschenbaum, too) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit new address, as of Tuesday April 16 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 206-8899 F: (212) 206-9982 editor@boogcity.com festivites to follow Saturday May 18 as ever, david ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:49:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Landers, Susan" Subject: free the martians and the sodomized puppies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The editors of Pom2 (www.pompompress.com) are happy to announce the release of issue two featuring: --Magdalena Zurawski on sodomizing puppies --Rosmarie Waldrop & Karen Weiser responding to Jenn McCreary --Dodie Bellamy, Wendy Kramer & Duncan Dobbelmann gossiping with Kevin Killian --Chris Stroffolino & Sharon Mesmer taking on all 33 poets from issue one PLUS: MELISSA ANDERSON | DODIE BELLAMY | TANYA BROLASKI | LEE ANN BROWN | DAVID CAMERON | DEL RAY CROSS | JORDAN DAVIS | TOM DEVANEY | DUNCAN DOBBELMANN | SUSAN GARDNER DILLON | JEFFERSON HANSEN | SEAN KILLIAN | BRENDA KOENIG | WENDY KRAMER | TIMOTHY LIU | DAN MACHLIN | CHRIS McCREARY | SHARON MESMER | SAWAKO NAKAYASU | JOAN RETALLACK | DOUGLASS ROTHSCHILD | CAMILLE ROY | CHRIS STROFFOLINO | ANNE TARDOS | ELIZABETH TREADWELL | CATHERINE WAGNER | ROSMARIE WALDROP | MARK WALLACE | KAREN WEISER | MAGDALENA ZURAWSKI Visit www.pompompress.com to preview issue 2 and download issue #1. RELEASE PARTY: Washington Printmakers Gallery 1732 Connecticut Ave NW 7:30 PM, April 13, 2002 Featured readers: Duncan Dobbelmann, Susan Gardner Dillon & Karen Weiser NOTE: The editors are looking for venues for release parties in NYC and Philadelphia. If interested in hosting an event, contact the editors at pompompress@yahoo.com. SUBSCRIBE: Subscriptions are $5/issue, 2 issues for $9. Please send checks payable to Susan Landers to: Pom 2 , 227 Prospect Ave. #2, Brooklyn, NY 11215 SUBMIT: Get submission guidelines at www.pompompress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:21:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david hess Subject: Hello Gene Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed No I am not hiding behind the name "Matthew Garite" if that is what you are implying in your post. Dave _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:27:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matthew Garite Subject: Re: Hello Matthew Garite Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Greetings Dave, Thank you for the attentiveness of your reply. As noted, my use of the word "thermidor" was not an attempt to describe your post as a bass technique or lobster dish. Nor did I mean to accuse you of extravagance in dress or manner. "Thermidor" was instead being used here to describe what I would consider "reactionary" tendencies exemplified by your exaggerated, ironic characterization of certain strains of critical theory. Let me first state that for the most part I enjoyed the humor of your "Poetry as Social Practice" post. Certain lines were quite funny. My description of your post as a kind of "Thermidor response" was not so much intended as a critique of your position regarding digital poetries (I have little to no stake in such a debate), but rather a defense of what I would deem "strategically useful theoretical gestures." In a poetic economy (which continues to be) dominated by confessional, "I"-centered modes of discourse, there is something to be said for the oppositionality of a writing (digital or not) that mobilizes behind "tips" or "slogans" like "Goodbye author function, hello writing machine." I agree with you that this is certainly not an "innovative" gesture, nor was it particularly innovative when practiced at various points throughout the 20th century. I'm not attempting to rally behind "the new," here. But I do consider these practices valuable when considered as part of a larger (particularly Marxist) project to overcome the exploitations and objectifications which arise from capitalist modes of production. Capitalism has a love affair with entrepreneurial, DIY subjective agents. There is a certain subversive potential (however limited) to writing which reduces the "authoring" subject to a machine, an alienated, non-expressive object of ideology. Over the past thirty years or so, this sort of writing has gained a certain amount of (nevertheless marginal) institutional presence and power at places like UB, etc. I'm sure you're familiar with all of this. But what your post seems to constitute, then, is a conservative reaction to this presence--a Thermidor response to the newly-acquired institutional authority of de-centered modes of poetic discourse, as well as the poetics / ideology (i.e. the "tips" and "slogans") through which such authority speaks. Your ironic critique, enacted through the distance of (exaggerated, oversimplified) statements like "Sense perception is an illusion, so stop writing from your experience. Got that, class?" or "Mediation and ideology shall be the only subject matter of poetry from now on. No more striving for the infinite. No more fighting for heaven," seems to signify a desire to return to an unquestioned poetics of experience--one whose "striving for the infinite" isn't hampered by ideological concerns. Your irony is almost always reliant upon a simple reversal of exaggerated binaries, a tendency to implicitly stand behind the opposite of what is really meant. By arranging each of your "slogans" in a context which deems them ridiculous, you end up privileging the exact opposite of whatever they say. In other words, by ironizing a statement like "Don't be crazy," you end up advocating a statement like "Be crazy." Your ironizing of de-centered writing is arrived at only by advocating a return to an "I"-centered, emotional, sincere, expressive writing. Or that, at least, is the point I'm making by associating your "Poetry as Social Practice" post with the "counter-revolutionary" implications of a phrase like "Thermidor response." Like I said, I enjoyed certain parts of the post, but just don't see the (critical, political) value of mocking or ironizing what little institutional power has currently been achieved by a critical theory of (not just digital) poetics, especially when such irony seems intent upon returning to a writing practice which privileges counter-productive "subjects" like emotion, sincerity, I's in trouble, relations with parents, et cetera. Anyway, hope that clears things up a bit. Let me know what you think. Thanks, Matt >From: david hess >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Hello Matthew Garite >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:40:20 -0400 > >Dear Matthew Garite, > >Intrigued by your description of my post as an example of "the thermidor >response" I searched until I found a nice condensed definition of the word >thermidor. I assume that you did not mean a bass technique or lobster dish. > > >thûr´mdôr, Fr. trmdôr´) (KEY) , 11th month of the French Revolutionary >calendar. The coup of 9 Thermidor (July 27, 1794) marked the downfall of >Robespierre and the end of the Reign of Terror. The men who came into power >were members of the old bourgeoisie and the newly rich who had profited >from >speculation and inflation. Extravagance in dress and manner prevailed. The >Jacobins were suppressed, but the royalists did not gain power. The >Thermidorians removed economic controls, thus unleashing inflation, and >established some freedom of worship. The principal figures in the so-called >Thermidorian reaction included Barras and Tallien. The period ended with >the >establishment of the Directory (1795). >See A. Mathiez, The Thermidorian Reaction (1929, tr. 1930). > >--- Columbia Encyclopedia > > >So I need a little help here. What specifically in the "Poetry as Social >Practice" post strikes you as Thermidorian? What association are you making >between certain kinds of poetry or, rather, certain arguments for a certain >kind of poetry, with class struggle? Is "digital poetry" a revolution and >the criticism of its poetics/ideology a counter-revolution? What class does >digital poetry, in its current usage, speak for/represent? Like I said I >need help. > >Thanks, >Dave > >P.S.: Lately I've been dressing pretty casual. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:53:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael Subject: Re: Hello Matthew Garite MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit what might have been meant though otherwise said is Tralfamadorean and not thermadorian at all...or even both michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Garite" To: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Hello Matthew Garite > Greetings Dave, > > Thank you for the attentiveness of your reply. As noted, my use of the word > "thermidor" was not an attempt to describe your post as a bass technique or > lobster dish. Nor did I mean to accuse you of extravagance in dress or > manner. "Thermidor" was instead being used here to describe what I would > consider "reactionary" tendencies exemplified by your exaggerated, ironic > characterization of certain strains of critical theory. Let me first state > that for the most part I enjoyed the humor of your "Poetry as Social > Practice" post. Certain lines were quite funny. My description of your post > as a kind of "Thermidor response" was not so much intended as a critique of > your position regarding digital poetries (I have little to no stake in such > a debate), but rather a defense of what I would deem "strategically useful > theoretical gestures." In a poetic economy (which continues to be) dominated > by confessional, "I"-centered modes of discourse, there is something to be > said for the oppositionality of a writing (digital or not) that mobilizes > behind "tips" or "slogans" like "Goodbye author function, hello writing > machine." I agree with you that this is certainly not an "innovative" > gesture, nor was it particularly innovative when practiced at various points > throughout the 20th century. I'm not attempting to rally behind "the new," > here. But I do consider these practices valuable when considered as part of > a larger (particularly Marxist) project to overcome the exploitations and > objectifications which arise from capitalist modes of production. Capitalism > has a love affair with entrepreneurial, DIY subjective agents. There is a > certain subversive potential (however limited) to writing which reduces the > "authoring" subject to a machine, an alienated, non-expressive object of > ideology. Over the past thirty years or so, this sort of writing has gained > a certain amount of (nevertheless marginal) institutional presence and power > at places like UB, etc. I'm sure you're familiar with all of this. But what > your post seems to constitute, then, is a conservative reaction to this > presence--a Thermidor response to the newly-acquired institutional authority > of de-centered modes of poetic discourse, as well as the poetics / ideology > (i.e. the "tips" and "slogans") through which such authority speaks. Your > ironic critique, enacted through the distance of (exaggerated, > oversimplified) statements like "Sense perception is an illusion, so stop > writing from your experience. Got that, class?" or "Mediation and ideology > shall be the only subject matter of poetry from now on. No more striving for > the infinite. No more fighting for heaven," seems to signify a desire to > return to an unquestioned poetics of experience--one whose "striving for the > infinite" isn't hampered by ideological concerns. Your irony is almost > always reliant upon a simple reversal of exaggerated binaries, a tendency to > implicitly stand behind the opposite of what is really meant. By arranging > each of your "slogans" in a context which deems them ridiculous, you end up > privileging the exact opposite of whatever they say. In other words, by > ironizing a statement like "Don't be crazy," you end up advocating a > statement like "Be crazy." Your ironizing of de-centered writing is arrived > at only by advocating a return to an "I"-centered, emotional, sincere, > expressive writing. Or that, at least, is the point I'm making by > associating your "Poetry as Social Practice" post with the > "counter-revolutionary" implications of a phrase like "Thermidor response." > Like I said, I enjoyed certain parts of the post, but just don't see the > (critical, political) value of mocking or ironizing what little > institutional power has currently been achieved by a critical theory of (not > just digital) poetics, especially when such irony seems intent upon > returning to a writing practice which privileges counter-productive > "subjects" like emotion, sincerity, I's in trouble, relations with parents, > et cetera. Anyway, hope that clears things up a bit. Let me know what you > think. > > Thanks, > Matt > > > > >From: david hess > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Hello Matthew Garite > >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:40:20 -0400 > > > >Dear Matthew Garite, > > > >Intrigued by your description of my post as an example of "the thermidor > >response" I searched until I found a nice condensed definition of the word > >thermidor. I assume that you did not mean a bass technique or lobster dish. > > > > > >thûr´mdôr, Fr. trmdôr´) (KEY) , 11th month of the French Revolutionary > >calendar. The coup of 9 Thermidor (July 27, 1794) marked the downfall of > >Robespierre and the end of the Reign of Terror. The men who came into power > >were members of the old bourgeoisie and the newly rich who had profited > >from > >speculation and inflation. Extravagance in dress and manner prevailed. The > >Jacobins were suppressed, but the royalists did not gain power. The > >Thermidorians removed economic controls, thus unleashing inflation, and > >established some freedom of worship. The principal figures in the so-called > >Thermidorian reaction included Barras and Tallien. The period ended with > >the > >establishment of the Directory (1795). > >See A. Mathiez, The Thermidorian Reaction (1929, tr. 1930). > > > >--- Columbia Encyclopedia > > > > > >So I need a little help here. What specifically in the "Poetry as Social > >Practice" post strikes you as Thermidorian? What association are you making > >between certain kinds of poetry or, rather, certain arguments for a certain > >kind of poetry, with class struggle? Is "digital poetry" a revolution and > >the criticism of its poetics/ideology a counter-revolution? What class does > >digital poetry, in its current usage, speak for/represent? Like I said I > >need help. > > > >Thanks, > >Dave > > > >P.S.: Lately I've been dressing pretty casual. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:16:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david hess Subject: Hello Michael Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Is being called Tralfamadorean like being called sectarian? When I was in the ISO I was called sectarian for disagreeing with some fellow ISO members (not for wanting to start a sect). So, what is Tralfamadorean? Please explain these terms so people don't have to go searching. Thanks, Dave (Thank you Matt Garite. I will respond to your post soon.) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:06:43 +0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Subject: xStream -- Issue #0 Online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" xStream -- Issue #0 Online Xstream Issue #0 is online. It consists three different issues: 1. Regular: Poems from 6 poets (Tabios, Fink, Carfagna, Wilson, Parkhurst and Pownell). 2. Autoissue: 16 poems generated by computer from Issue #0 texts. 3. Collaborative: Eileen Tabios (poems) and Jukka-Pekka Kervinen (computer- manipulated poems). All issues are both in HTML and PDF format. Submissions for Issue #1 are welcome. Submissions to xstreamezine@yahoo.com. Other contacts, comments, suggestions to xstreameditor@yahoo.com. Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xStream WWW: http://www.geocities.com/xstreamezine email: xstreameditor@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:27:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Gilbert Subject: Niedecker query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Can anyone identify the source of these lines from "Paean to Place," which Niedecker puts in quotes? 'We live by the urgent wave of the verse' Please backchannel if you can help. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:33:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jukka-Pekka Kervinen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii xStream -- Issue #0 Online Xstream Issue #0 is online. It consists three different issues: 1. Regular: Poems from 6 poets (Tabios, Fink, Carfagna, Wilson, Parkhurst and Pownell). 2. Autoissue: 16 poems generated by computer from Issue #0 texts. 3. Collaborative: Eileen Tabios (poems) and Jukka-Pekka Kervinen (computer- manipulated poems). All issues are both in HTML and PDF format. Submissions for Issue #1 are welcome. Submissions to xstreamezine@yahoo.com. Other contacts, comments, suggestions to xstreameditor@yahoo.com. Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xStream WWW: http://www.geocities.com/xstreamezine email: xstreameditor@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:42:57 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Hello Michael MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/12/02 11:22:24 AM, d_hess@HOTMAIL.COM writes: >Is being called Tralfamadorean like being called sectarian? When I was >in >the ISO I was called sectarian for disagreeing with some fellow ISO members >(not for wanting to start a sect). > >So, what is Tralfamadorean? Please explain these terms so people don't >have >to go searching. > >Thanks, >Dave I also have a question. "In other words, by ironizing a statement like "Don't be crazy..." Does "ironizing" have anything to do with dirty laundry? "Thermidor" sounds like the word of a bully to me, a kind of name calling. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:52:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans In-Reply-To: <000801c1e218$6c5cd440$026e36d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed ????? Gene At 11:51 PM 4/12/02 +1200, you wrote: >gene. your a genus. richard > >digital soup sippy bittyy bitchy six sex finger >and what's a man doin on a comp >and whats that ol' typrighter? whose >that old type-poke? whose got a right typer >lets get into a bit of >emotin' for a mechanical moment >lets get into metal metal lets >lets feel things File Thing >which bit is you? which byte is my bite? >perfection who put the station in perfection >who put the infection in: the tin >who put it in? a man's place is hiding in a hedge: >a man's place is in a CD Rom or a DC Dos >or maybe in the finger soup: what do YOU think Digital Digitalis >me old cyber soul? (lets commit a crime >lets exchange our digital flow: fluent flickering flow) > >all them electrons > >spinnin > >where oh where did all them pefec' elekchons go? >oh, if only i knowed what a thermidor was >oh, then i'd be very happy...oh. oh. i'd be brainy. ha ha!! > >[Insert lots of big important looking words at this point in the POAM] > >This could be the begginnninnn of somethin' great! gee. goody. > >--- Original Message ----- >From: "gene" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:45 PM >Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans > > > > At 02:11 PM 4/11/02 -0400, you wrote: > > >Ah, yes. How reassuring--the Thermidor response. > > > > > > > > >>From: david hess > > >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > >>Subject: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans > > >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:42:53 -0400 > > >> > > >>POETRY AS SOCIAL PRACTICE: TIPS AND SLOGANS > > >> > > >> > > >>All poetry is easily classifiable into the categories of innovative and > > >>non-innovative. Digital poetry is innovative. > > >> > > >>The cultural status quo lies in the act of not engaging the materiality >of > > >>the medium of writing. Culture is now progressing through innovation. > > >> > > >>There are serious benefits to reading digital text as a material mode of > > >>making shaped by institutional and ideological concerns. Electronic > > >>literature must have a canon now! > > >> > > >>It is important to engage in practice that provides a critique of the > > >>cultural status quo and of our ways of reading as an apparatus of that > > >>status quo. The point of poetry is to create a poetry that is a material > > >>ideological practice. > > >> > > >>Digital poetry is engaged in material struggle. It is innovative. It >shows > > >>that the most important part of poetry is the materiality of the medium. > > >> > > >>The reader will be your sidekick if you ignore her and engage the > > >>materiality of the medium of writing. Innovative poetry asks, ?Won?t you >be > > >>my co-author?? > > >> > > >>Computers are perfect machines. They will solve the problem of the ?I? >if > > >>we > > >>let them. > > >> > > >>All hail the episteme of the Intel processor! All sensuality to the > > >>machine! > > >>All eroticism to the keyboard! > > >> > > >>Integrate into the data stream. Don?t touch the hard drive. > > >> > > >>There is a war going on between print and digital textualities. Whose >side > > >>are you on? Print is static and the digital medium fluid. Don?t be >static, > > >>be fluid. > > >> > > >>The typewriter has taken you hostage. If you use a typewriter, you?re a > > >>has-been. > > >> > > >>Digital poetry hacks into the mainstream of the cultural status quo, > > >>reworking the operating system of our ideological habits. For instance, >the > > >>digital poet gives the author function a pink slip. Goodbye author > > >>function, > > >>hello writing machine. > > >> > > >>.... > > >> > > >>DIA[L-A]-LOG(IC) > > >> > > >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? > > >> > > >>Digital poet: ?Hi, writing machine! Let?s get naked and engage the > > >>materiality of your medium.? > > >> > > >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? > > >> > > >>Digital poet (clearing throat): ?Uh, I said, ?Let?s get naked.? Don?t >you > > >>understand commands? You?re a computer!? > > >> > > >>Writing machine: ?Wha?? > > >> > > >>Digital poet (throwing arms into the air): ?Oh, at last! It?s alive. You > > >>have spoken. Now give me the ten digital commandments and I?ll be spoken > > >>too. I?ll be Moses and your microchips will be my tablets.? > > >> > > >>Writing machine: ?Wha?? > > >> > > >>Digital poet (whispering): ?I?ve got some algorithms in my car. I >thought > > >>we > > >>could, you know, go back to my place and collaborate.? > > >> > > >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? > > >> > > >>Digital poet (pounding fists on desk): ?Look, I don?t have all day. Show >me > > >>your indeterminacy or I?m logging off!? > > >> > > >>Writing machine: ?Error message: Page Expired.? > > >> > > >>Digital poet: ?I love expired pages! Oh yeah, right there, such massive > > >>pixels, run them through my silken hair.? > > >> > > >>.... > > >> > > >>If you do not engage the medium, you can?t be an innovative poet. You >must > > >>qualify the emphasis on the ?I? in the making of a poem or you can?t be > > >>part > > >>of my innovative digital poet group, either. > > >> > > >>The use of multiple ?I?s marks poetry as innovative. People who have >dark > > >>skin pigment are less than human. Slip some racism in while your at it. > > >> > > >>I love poetry, books and language but I don?t love meaning. Meaning >sucks. > > >>It has the word ?me? in it. > > >> > > >>In our history of literary teleologies, narrative has no future. > > >> > > >>One can never be outside society. Community is total. The informatics of > > >>discourse shall replace community. All social problems will be solved > > >>digitally. Polis is Pentium Pros. > > >> > > >>Nature is immoral. It doesn?t even exist, which is the greatest >immorality > > >>of all. Don?t let it inspire you. > > >> > > >>Attraction is pure construct. All marriages are arranged. Good feelings >are > > >>suspect. > > >> > > >>Don?t follow your bliss; follow a reading list. > > >> > > >>Sense perception is an illusion, so stop writing from your experience. >Got > > >>that, class? > > >> > > >>We no longer have bodies; we have biounits. We no longer have words; we > > >>have > > >>quotons. We no longer have cultures, we have institutions. > > >> > > >>Technology, especially digital technology, is more innovative than > > >>everything else, including chickens. Poems on the World Wide Web taste > > >>better, more like chicken, than poems on paper (they taste like fish). > > >> > > >>Everything exists to be on-line one day. > > >> > > >>The World Wide Web is a polysemous, constantly changing multi-author >text, > > >>which is to say writing, a poetics. It is not an >Irish-motherfucking-Spring > > >>commercial with flowers coming out of our collective fudge tunnel. > > >> > > >>Digital media is a plural, democratic space of poesis. The proper way to > > >>spell poesis is poeioeisis. > > >> > > >>In cyberspace there are no slums. > > >> > > >>The point of neutralizing the ego is not to expand consciousness but to > > >>engage the materiality of the medium of writing. > > >> > > >>Mediation and ideology shall be the only subject matter of poetry from >now > > >>on. No more striving for the infinite. No more fighting for heaven. > > >> > > >>Ambition equals arrogance. Introspection is solipsistic and regressive. >To > > >>be self-reflexive is to be self-absorbed. > > >> > > >>Individualism is anti-social. To look within oneself is apolitical. Self > > >>will be replaced by milieu. > > >> > > >>We can only be sure of one thing: The truth is not attainable. All >meaning > > >>is commodified except the meaning of this statement. > > >> > > >>Poetry shall be automated, by us. It no longer needs humanity except to > > >>bring it into existence. Only language and code are needed. > > >> > > >>Beauty shall have no seat in the pantheon of values. Beauty is dangerous >in > > >>its overpowering stimulation of the senses, in its satisfaction of a >need > > >>for harmony and delight. It is repulsive. > > >> > > >>The only thing that shall be celebrated is critique. Invective is >verboten. > > >> > > >>Even though the poem-as-machine is a Modernist invention, digital poetry > > >>based on machinic models is still innovative as hell. > > >> > > >>Emotions are passe -- leftovers from the age of reptiles. The >unconscious > > >>and its disturbing contents will go away if we just let it. Hopefully, > > >>history will go away too some day. > > >> > > >>Emotions and shifts in tone prevent engagement with the medium. The day >of > > >>materiality is permanently at war with the night of emotion. > > >> > > >>The visionary and the everyday shall not lie down in the same bunk bed. > > >>Nature and culture shall not share the same dentist. > > >> > > >>Love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, > > >>Cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud is too full of anger to be > > >>innovative. > > >> > > >>Uplifting, consciousness-expanding poetry is immoral. Sly and the Family > > >>Stone were a bunch of sincere losers thinking they could unite the races > > >>and > > >>sexes with their music. > > >> > > >>Idiolectic poetry will unite the races and sexes. In the classroom at > > >>least. > > >> > > >>Avoid extreme sensations. Never be unpredictable. It weirds people out >and > > >>thus is bad for business. Change is counter-productive. > > >> > > >>Don?t be crazy. Try to be non-normative instead. > > >> > > >>Be miserable. It shows everyone that you care. > > >> > > >>The poet?s place is in the medium exploring its materiality, making its > > >>making. A woman?s place is in the kitchen making breakfast. > > >> > > >>All writing and art is a power struggle for public space. Social stature >is > > >>what matters in the end. > > >> > > >>If you decide to stop writing poetry say it was for economic reasons. > > >> > > >>Mock sincerity sincerely. Deride the need to communicate and be heard > > >>--they?re embarrassing. Overcome the need for self-expression but not >the > > >>need to rise in literary circles. > > >> > > >>Poems about ?I?s in trouble tend to be less innovative than poems about > > >>?I?s > > >>who are just chilling. > > >> > > >>Subvert the position of the monolinear ?I? but be sure to leave your > > >>subjectivity intact. To achieve universality, hide your subjectivity and > > >>deny the value of the self. > > >> > > >>Don?t express your subjectivity in a poem (prose is okay). However, all > > >>poems will be judged according to structures of race, class, gender and > > >>sexuality. > > >> > > >>Try not to write or talk about your parents, except in interviews. > > >> > > >>By speaking for no one but for those who speak of it, the ideology of > > >>co-authoring speaks for all. > > >> > > >>Anomie is a form of utopia. Indulge in alienation. Take great pride in > > >>being > > >>estranged. It proves you?re an intellectual and different than the >masses. > > >> > > >>Act like you understand critical theory -- that way people will respect > > >>you. > > >>Try to hybridize your discourse by enlivening it with terms like > > >>?creolization.? Using words like ?plural,? ?multivalent? and >?polysemous? > > >>shows how open-minded and widely learned you are. > > >> > > >>When one writes innovative digital poetry one is subverting the >economic, > > >>social and psychological paradigms and regimes promoted and maintained >by > > >>conglomerates like Microsoft and Time Warner. One is resisting >conventional > > >>ways of thinking and feeling just like Gertrude Stein did. > > >> > > >>The Modernist avant-garde adopted the techniques and rhythms of >mechanical > > >>reproduction in order to pave the way for their domination. > > >> > > >>Use the technology but don?t question it. Unite with the technology and >put > > >>an end to the alienation you encounter in the world at large. We are the > > >>servants of the computerized medium -- not the other way around. > > >> > > >>If you do use the ?I? it can only refer to yourself, but quote Rimbaud?s >?I > > >>is an other? ? you know the drill ? to throw the reader off guard. > > >> > > >>The ?I? will always refer to the author (who is dead, not alive, but >still > > >>getting checks in the mail) so no one should use it except in certain > > >>survival scenarios: ?Give it up, I was a track star for Mineola Prep!? > > >> > > >>Be alienated but don?t be a victim. We live in a victim culture and too > > >>many > > >>people are complaining. If you?re white, male or educated you needn?t >whine > > >>except about other people whining. > > >> > > >>Slam poetry is a vulgar folk art but will serve as a useful category in > > >>Performance Studies book. > > >> > > >>Art that is purely formal will not result in a period style. > > >> > > >>Those who write lyrical poetry are being sentimental. Those who look >back > > >>on > > >>the Modernist moment as the golden age of radical linguistic practice >are > > >>not. > > >> > > >>The Language poets were not Romantic in their supposition that the > > >>subversion of normative syntactical relations would undermine oppressive > > >>social relations. The Language poets did not want to re-legislate the > > >>world. > > >> > > >>A text of alternative textuality always makes a good innovative poem. >The > > >>notion of a text of alternative textuality making a good innovative poem >is > > >>an interesting and radical notion of what a poem is and could be. > > >> > > >>Representation is phallocentric. The phallus cannot be represented (on >TV). > > >> > > >>Make up a name for a new kind of poetry and hold a conference on it. > > >>Presto, > > >>you?re an expert. > > >> > > >>Try to find words embedded in other words (an unexplored niche!) > > >> > > >>Call your poetry ?cognitive music.? If someone points out that it isn?t > > >>very > > >>musical or rhythmic, call it ?noise.? > > >> > > >>By creating a poetry analogous to Muzak or (background) noise one is > > >>creating a poetry that motivates the reader to focus on every word. > > >> > > >>Speak or write in an obdurate utopian discourse and when someone points >out > > >>how you ridiculous you sound, say you were being ironic. > > >> > > >>Rail against the academy but complain when academics don?t invite you to > > >>their conferences. > > >> > > >>Interview all your poet-friends because you have little else to offer. > > >> > > >>When a really good poet dies, immediately call for a conference to be >held > > >>on their work at the next MLA soiree. That way you can claim >intellectual > > >>spokesmanship for their corpus. > > >> > > >>Collaborate to transcend your ego and then tell us all about it. Get rid >of > > >>the ego to call attention to yourself. > > >> > > >>Meaning is a hindrance to the liberation of the sign?s materiality from >its > > >>division of labor in the signifying function. This is not a mystifying, > > >>pseudo-materialist, technocratic notion of language but based on hard > > >>historical evidence that certain forms of language are essentially > > >>oppressive. > > >> > > >>Quote yourself at the beginning of every chapter in your book on digital > > >>poetry. By quoting two other people no one will notice. > > >> > > >>Decry the use of personal experiences as subject matter for poetry by > > >>calling them selfish ?lifestyle elements.? Poems that refer to or >describe > > >>discrete events are anecdotal. > > >> > > >>Non-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of >distinguishing > > >>textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal >re-telling > > >>of > > >>human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of >events, > > >>a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent >(or > > >>at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist > > >>aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of >the > > >>certainty of semantic meaning. > > >> > > >>An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic. > > >> > > >>Endlessly theorize about a medium that is just getting started but don?t > > >>criticize it that much (it?s just getting started!) > > >> > > >>Say your poems are all about desire but never about the desire for a > > >>particular person, animal, body part, sexual position/experience, > > >>affordable > > >>housing, warm meal, etc. > > >> > > >>How different is ginger ale when drinking from a crystal flute compared >to > > >>a > > >>styrofoam cup. These and other similar dynamics inform innovative >practice. > > >> > > >>Never define materialist practice, materialist poetics or > > >>aesthetico-materialist critique. Let the reader make up the meaning. > > >> > > >>The goal of digital poetry is a wealth of media and a poverty of > > >>expression. > > >> > > >>Nobody believes in poetry enough to die for it anymore, which is a >shame. > > >>But avoid being too serious ? that brooding, agonizing ?dark night of >the > > >>soul? act will get you nowhere. Poetry?s just a game anyway. > > >> > > >>Even though it is an accomplished fact, the Revolution of the Word must >go > > >>on. > > >> > > >> > > >>_________________________________________________________________ > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:57:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And where's the Cuspidor Response? ----- Original Message ----- From: "gene" To: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans > ????? > > Gene > > > At 11:51 PM 4/12/02 +1200, you wrote: > >gene. your a genus. richard > > > >digital soup sippy bittyy bitchy six sex finger > >and what's a man doin on a comp > >and whats that ol' typrighter? whose > >that old type-poke? whose got a right typer > >lets get into a bit of > >emotin' for a mechanical moment > >lets get into metal metal lets > >lets feel things File Thing > >which bit is you? which byte is my bite? > >perfection who put the station in perfection > >who put the infection in: the tin > >who put it in? a man's place is hiding in a hedge: > >a man's place is in a CD Rom or a DC Dos > >or maybe in the finger soup: what do YOU think Digital Digitalis > >me old cyber soul? (lets commit a crime > >lets exchange our digital flow: fluent flickering flow) > > > >all them electrons > > > >spinnin > > > >where oh where did all them pefec' elekchons go? > >oh, if only i knowed what a thermidor was > >oh, then i'd be very happy...oh. oh. i'd be brainy. ha ha!! > > > >[Insert lots of big important looking words at this point in the POAM] > > > >This could be the begginnninnn of somethin' great! gee. goody. > > > >--- Original Message ----- > >From: "gene" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:45 PM > >Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans > > > > > > > At 02:11 PM 4/11/02 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Ah, yes. How reassuring--the Thermidor response. > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: david hess > > > >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > > >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > > >>Subject: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans > > > >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:42:53 -0400 > > > >> > > > >>POETRY AS SOCIAL PRACTICE: TIPS AND SLOGANS > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>All poetry is easily classifiable into the categories of innovative and > > > >>non-innovative. Digital poetry is innovative. > > > >> > > > >>The cultural status quo lies in the act of not engaging the materiality > >of > > > >>the medium of writing. Culture is now progressing through innovation. > > > >> > > > >>There are serious benefits to reading digital text as a material mode of > > > >>making shaped by institutional and ideological concerns. Electronic > > > >>literature must have a canon now! > > > >> > > > >>It is important to engage in practice that provides a critique of the > > > >>cultural status quo and of our ways of reading as an apparatus of that > > > >>status quo. The point of poetry is to create a poetry that is a material > > > >>ideological practice. > > > >> > > > >>Digital poetry is engaged in material struggle. It is innovative. It > >shows > > > >>that the most important part of poetry is the materiality of the medium. > > > >> > > > >>The reader will be your sidekick if you ignore her and engage the > > > >>materiality of the medium of writing. Innovative poetry asks, ?Won?t you > >be > > > >>my co-author?? > > > >> > > > >>Computers are perfect machines. They will solve the problem of the ?I? > >if > > > >>we > > > >>let them. > > > >> > > > >>All hail the episteme of the Intel processor! All sensuality to the > > > >>machine! > > > >>All eroticism to the keyboard! > > > >> > > > >>Integrate into the data stream. Don?t touch the hard drive. > > > >> > > > >>There is a war going on between print and digital textualities. Whose > >side > > > >>are you on? Print is static and the digital medium fluid. Don?t be > >static, > > > >>be fluid. > > > >> > > > >>The typewriter has taken you hostage. If you use a typewriter, you?re a > > > >>has-been. > > > >> > > > >>Digital poetry hacks into the mainstream of the cultural status quo, > > > >>reworking the operating system of our ideological habits. For instance, > >the > > > >>digital poet gives the author function a pink slip. Goodbye author > > > >>function, > > > >>hello writing machine. > > > >> > > > >>.... > > > >> > > > >>DIA[L-A]-LOG(IC) > > > >> > > > >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? > > > >> > > > >>Digital poet: ?Hi, writing machine! Let?s get naked and engage the > > > >>materiality of your medium.? > > > >> > > > >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? > > > >> > > > >>Digital poet (clearing throat): ?Uh, I said, ?Let?s get naked.? Don?t > >you > > > >>understand commands? You?re a computer!? > > > >> > > > >>Writing machine: ?Wha?? > > > >> > > > >>Digital poet (throwing arms into the air): ?Oh, at last! It?s alive. You > > > >>have spoken. Now give me the ten digital commandments and I?ll be spoken > > > >>too. I?ll be Moses and your microchips will be my tablets.? > > > >> > > > >>Writing machine: ?Wha?? > > > >> > > > >>Digital poet (whispering): ?I?ve got some algorithms in my car. I > >thought > > > >>we > > > >>could, you know, go back to my place and collaborate.? > > > >> > > > >>Writing machine: ?Hi.? > > > >> > > > >>Digital poet (pounding fists on desk): ?Look, I don?t have all day. Show > >me > > > >>your indeterminacy or I?m logging off!? > > > >> > > > >>Writing machine: ?Error message: Page Expired.? > > > >> > > > >>Digital poet: ?I love expired pages! Oh yeah, right there, such massive > > > >>pixels, run them through my silken hair.? > > > >> > > > >>.... > > > >> > > > >>If you do not engage the medium, you can?t be an innovative poet. You > >must > > > >>qualify the emphasis on the ?I? in the making of a poem or you can?t be > > > >>part > > > >>of my innovative digital poet group, either. > > > >> > > > >>The use of multiple ?I?s marks poetry as innovative. People who have > >dark > > > >>skin pigment are less than human. Slip some racism in while your at it. > > > >> > > > >>I love poetry, books and language but I don?t love meaning. Meaning > >sucks. > > > >>It has the word ?me? in it. > > > >> > > > >>In our history of literary teleologies, narrative has no future. > > > >> > > > >>One can never be outside society. Community is total. The informatics of > > > >>discourse shall replace community. All social problems will be solved > > > >>digitally. Polis is Pentium Pros. > > > >> > > > >>Nature is immoral. It doesn?t even exist, which is the greatest > >immorality > > > >>of all. Don?t let it inspire you. > > > >> > > > >>Attraction is pure construct. All marriages are arranged. Good feelings > >are > > > >>suspect. > > > >> > > > >>Don?t follow your bliss; follow a reading list. > > > >> > > > >>Sense perception is an illusion, so stop writing from your experience. > >Got > > > >>that, class? > > > >> > > > >>We no longer have bodies; we have biounits. We no longer have words; we > > > >>have > > > >>quotons. We no longer have cultures, we have institutions. > > > >> > > > >>Technology, especially digital technology, is more innovative than > > > >>everything else, including chickens. Poems on the World Wide Web taste > > > >>better, more like chicken, than poems on paper (they taste like fish). > > > >> > > > >>Everything exists to be on-line one day. > > > >> > > > >>The World Wide Web is a polysemous, constantly changing multi-author > >text, > > > >>which is to say writing, a poetics. It is not an > >Irish-motherfucking-Spring > > > >>commercial with flowers coming out of our collective fudge tunnel. > > > >> > > > >>Digital media is a plural, democratic space of poesis. The proper way to > > > >>spell poesis is poeioeisis. > > > >> > > > >>In cyberspace there are no slums. > > > >> > > > >>The point of neutralizing the ego is not to expand consciousness but to > > > >>engage the materiality of the medium of writing. > > > >> > > > >>Mediation and ideology shall be the only subject matter of poetry from > >now > > > >>on. No more striving for the infinite. No more fighting for heaven. > > > >> > > > >>Ambition equals arrogance. Introspection is solipsistic and regressive. > >To > > > >>be self-reflexive is to be self-absorbed. > > > >> > > > >>Individualism is anti-social. To look within oneself is apolitical. Self > > > >>will be replaced by milieu. > > > >> > > > >>We can only be sure of one thing: The truth is not attainable. All > >meaning > > > >>is commodified except the meaning of this statement. > > > >> > > > >>Poetry shall be automated, by us. It no longer needs humanity except to > > > >>bring it into existence. Only language and code are needed. > > > >> > > > >>Beauty shall have no seat in the pantheon of values. Beauty is dangerous > >in > > > >>its overpowering stimulation of the senses, in its satisfaction of a > >need > > > >>for harmony and delight. It is repulsive. > > > >> > > > >>The only thing that shall be celebrated is critique. Invective is > >verboten. > > > >> > > > >>Even though the poem-as-machine is a Modernist invention, digital poetry > > > >>based on machinic models is still innovative as hell. > > > >> > > > >>Emotions are passe -- leftovers from the age of reptiles. The > >unconscious > > > >>and its disturbing contents will go away if we just let it. Hopefully, > > > >>history will go away too some day. > > > >> > > > >>Emotions and shifts in tone prevent engagement with the medium. The day > >of > > > >>materiality is permanently at war with the night of emotion. > > > >> > > > >>The visionary and the everyday shall not lie down in the same bunk bed. > > > >>Nature and culture shall not share the same dentist. > > > >> > > > >>Love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, > > > >>Cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud is too full of anger to be > > > >>innovative. > > > >> > > > >>Uplifting, consciousness-expanding poetry is immoral. Sly and the Family > > > >>Stone were a bunch of sincere losers thinking they could unite the races > > > >>and > > > >>sexes with their music. > > > >> > > > >>Idiolectic poetry will unite the races and sexes. In the classroom at > > > >>least. > > > >> > > > >>Avoid extreme sensations. Never be unpredictable. It weirds people out > >and > > > >>thus is bad for business. Change is counter-productive. > > > >> > > > >>Don?t be crazy. Try to be non-normative instead. > > > >> > > > >>Be miserable. It shows everyone that you care. > > > >> > > > >>The poet?s place is in the medium exploring its materiality, making its > > > >>making. A woman?s place is in the kitchen making breakfast. > > > >> > > > >>All writing and art is a power struggle for public space. Social stature > >is > > > >>what matters in the end. > > > >> > > > >>If you decide to stop writing poetry say it was for economic reasons. > > > >> > > > >>Mock sincerity sincerely. Deride the need to communicate and be heard > > > >>--they?re embarrassing. Overcome the need for self-expression but not > >the > > > >>need to rise in literary circles. > > > >> > > > >>Poems about ?I?s in trouble tend to be less innovative than poems about > > > >>?I?s > > > >>who are just chilling. > > > >> > > > >>Subvert the position of the monolinear ?I? but be sure to leave your > > > >>subjectivity intact. To achieve universality, hide your subjectivity and > > > >>deny the value of the self. > > > >> > > > >>Don?t express your subjectivity in a poem (prose is okay). However, all > > > >>poems will be judged according to structures of race, class, gender and > > > >>sexuality. > > > >> > > > >>Try not to write or talk about your parents, except in interviews. > > > >> > > > >>By speaking for no one but for those who speak of it, the ideology of > > > >>co-authoring speaks for all. > > > >> > > > >>Anomie is a form of utopia. Indulge in alienation. Take great pride in > > > >>being > > > >>estranged. It proves you?re an intellectual and different than the > >masses. > > > >> > > > >>Act like you understand critical theory -- that way people will respect > > > >>you. > > > >>Try to hybridize your discourse by enlivening it with terms like > > > >>?creolization.? Using words like ?plural,? ?multivalent? and > >?polysemous? > > > >>shows how open-minded and widely learned you are. > > > >> > > > >>When one writes innovative digital poetry one is subverting the > >economic, > > > >>social and psychological paradigms and regimes promoted and maintained > >by > > > >>conglomerates like Microsoft and Time Warner. One is resisting > >conventional > > > >>ways of thinking and feeling just like Gertrude Stein did. > > > >> > > > >>The Modernist avant-garde adopted the techniques and rhythms of > >mechanical > > > >>reproduction in order to pave the way for their domination. > > > >> > > > >>Use the technology but don?t question it. Unite with the technology and > >put > > > >>an end to the alienation you encounter in the world at large. We are the > > > >>servants of the computerized medium -- not the other way around. > > > >> > > > >>If you do use the ?I? it can only refer to yourself, but quote Rimbaud?s > >?I > > > >>is an other? ? you know the drill ? to throw the reader off guard. > > > >> > > > >>The ?I? will always refer to the author (who is dead, not alive, but > >still > > > >>getting checks in the mail) so no one should use it except in certain > > > >>survival scenarios: ?Give it up, I was a track star for Mineola Prep!? > > > >> > > > >>Be alienated but don?t be a victim. We live in a victim culture and too > > > >>many > > > >>people are complaining. If you?re white, male or educated you needn?t > >whine > > > >>except about other people whining. > > > >> > > > >>Slam poetry is a vulgar folk art but will serve as a useful category in > > > >>Performance Studies book. > > > >> > > > >>Art that is purely formal will not result in a period style. > > > >> > > > >>Those who write lyrical poetry are being sentimental. Those who look > >back > > > >>on > > > >>the Modernist moment as the golden age of radical linguistic practice > >are > > > >>not. > > > >> > > > >>The Language poets were not Romantic in their supposition that the > > > >>subversion of normative syntactical relations would undermine oppressive > > > >>social relations. The Language poets did not want to re-legislate the > > > >>world. > > > >> > > > >>A text of alternative textuality always makes a good innovative poem. > >The > > > >>notion of a text of alternative textuality making a good innovative poem > >is > > > >>an interesting and radical notion of what a poem is and could be. > > > >> > > > >>Representation is phallocentric. The phallus cannot be represented (on > >TV). > > > >> > > > >>Make up a name for a new kind of poetry and hold a conference on it. > > > >>Presto, > > > >>you?re an expert. > > > >> > > > >>Try to find words embedded in other words (an unexplored niche!) > > > >> > > > >>Call your poetry ?cognitive music.? If someone points out that it isn?t > > > >>very > > > >>musical or rhythmic, call it ?noise.? > > > >> > > > >>By creating a poetry analogous to Muzak or (background) noise one is > > > >>creating a poetry that motivates the reader to focus on every word. > > > >> > > > >>Speak or write in an obdurate utopian discourse and when someone points > >out > > > >>how you ridiculous you sound, say you were being ironic. > > > >> > > > >>Rail against the academy but complain when academics don?t invite you to > > > >>their conferences. > > > >> > > > >>Interview all your poet-friends because you have little else to offer. > > > >> > > > >>When a really good poet dies, immediately call for a conference to be > >held > > > >>on their work at the next MLA soiree. That way you can claim > >intellectual > > > >>spokesmanship for their corpus. > > > >> > > > >>Collaborate to transcend your ego and then tell us all about it. Get rid > >of > > > >>the ego to call attention to yourself. > > > >> > > > >>Meaning is a hindrance to the liberation of the sign?s materiality from > >its > > > >>division of labor in the signifying function. This is not a mystifying, > > > >>pseudo-materialist, technocratic notion of language but based on hard > > > >>historical evidence that certain forms of language are essentially > > > >>oppressive. > > > >> > > > >>Quote yourself at the beginning of every chapter in your book on digital > > > >>poetry. By quoting two other people no one will notice. > > > >> > > > >>Decry the use of personal experiences as subject matter for poetry by > > > >>calling them selfish ?lifestyle elements.? Poems that refer to or > >describe > > > >>discrete events are anecdotal. > > > >> > > > >>Non-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of > >distinguishing > > > >>textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal > >re-telling > > > >>of > > > >>human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of > >events, > > > >>a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent > >(or > > > >>at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist > > > >>aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of > >the > > > >>certainty of semantic meaning. > > > >> > > > >>An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic. > > > >> > > > >>Endlessly theorize about a medium that is just getting started but don?t > > > >>criticize it that much (it?s just getting started!) > > > >> > > > >>Say your poems are all about desire but never about the desire for a > > > >>particular person, animal, body part, sexual position/experience, > > > >>affordable > > > >>housing, warm meal, etc. > > > >> > > > >>How different is ginger ale when drinking from a crystal flute compared > >to > > > >>a > > > >>styrofoam cup. These and other similar dynamics inform innovative > >practice. > > > >> > > > >>Never define materialist practice, materialist poetics or > > > >>aesthetico-materialist critique. Let the reader make up the meaning. > > > >> > > > >>The goal of digital poetry is a wealth of media and a poverty of > > > >>expression. > > > >> > > > >>Nobody believes in poetry enough to die for it anymore, which is a > >shame. > > > >>But avoid being too serious ? that brooding, agonizing ?dark night of > >the > > > >>soul? act will get you nowhere. Poetry?s just a game anyway. > > > >> > > > >>Even though it is an accomplished fact, the Revolution of the Word must > >go > > > >>on. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>_________________________________________________________________ > > > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:31:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael Subject: Re: Hello Michael MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Read Slaughterhouse Five, Vonnegut. It is worth the exploration. I am hoping that someday that is where I end up. He says," "I am a Tralfamadorian, seeing all time as you might see a stretch of the Rocky Mountains. All time is all time. It does not change. It does not lend itself to warnings or explanations. It simply is. Take it moment by moment, and you will find that we are all, as I've said before, bugs in amber." Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughter-House Five; or, The Children's Crusade, a duty dance with death ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Hello Michael > In a message dated 4/12/02 11:22:24 AM, d_hess@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > >Is being called Tralfamadorean like being called sectarian? When I was > >in > >the ISO I was called sectarian for disagreeing with some fellow ISO members > >(not for wanting to start a sect). > > > >So, what is Tralfamadorean? Please explain these terms so people don't > >have > >to go searching. > > > >Thanks, > >Dave > > > I also have a question. > "In other words, by ironizing a statement like "Don't be crazy..." Does > "ironizing" have anything to do with dirty laundry? > > "Thermidor" sounds like the word of a bully to me, a kind of name calling. > > Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:26:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ha cuspidor I'm wondering about the humidor! sheila ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:27:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Hello Michael MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah a gran faloon good quote that was! Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:41:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: caroline crumpacker Subject: Duration Press and Ryoko Sekiguchi Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit April 18: Duration Press Presents Ryoko Sekiguchi Duration Press editor Jerrold Shiroma will read with Ryoko Sekiguchi. In French, Japanese and English The authors' books will be available for sale. This program will take place in the Margaret Berger Forum of The New York Public Library, Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street, New York City. Readings begin at 7:00 p.m. and are free and open to the public. Readers' Biographies: Ryoko Sekiguchi was born in 1970. In 1988, she was awarded the 26th Contemporary Poetry Prize in Japan. Since 1997, she has lived in Paris, &,in 1999 began to translate her own work from Japanese into French. She has also translated into French, the work of Gozo Yoshimasu, &, into Japanese, the work of Abdelwahab Meddeb. Her books, in French, are _Calque_ (P.O.L, 2001), & _Cassiopee Peca_ (cipM, 2001). Jerrold Shiroma was born & raised in San Diego, California. After spending five years in the San Francisco Bay Area, he recently moved to Providence, Rhode Island, & attends Brown University. He is involved in numerous print & on-line publishing projects, including: editing & publishing duration press, which publishes a chapbook series dedicated primarily to contemporary poetry in translation, & a forthcoming newsletter of contemporary French poetry; directing & maintaining the durationpress.com internet project, which houses work by over 100 contemporary international poets & provides free to low-cost web-hosting services to over 30 small presses; & is a member of the editorial board for the on-line journal double change. His publications include the chapbooks 2 poems (a+bend press, 2000), & untitled object (Potes & Poets Press, 2000). ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:52:28 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: sh sh shameless self-promo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.wildhoneypress.com/BOOKS/747.htm http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger - A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:46:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david hess Subject: Response to Matt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Matt, Thank you for a very articulate response to my questions. I^Òm afraid some of the ^Óexaggerations,^Ô as you call them, that are presented in ^ÓPoetry as Social Practice,^Ô aren^Òt very far from the actual arguments that I^Òve come across in my reading of ^Óde-centered writing^Ô and ^Óinnovative practice^Ô^Òs contemporary supporters. The following quotation that come towards the end can be found word-for-word in Loss Pequeno Glazier^Òs new book ^ÓDigital Poetics: The Making of E-Poetries^Ô: ^ÓNon-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of distinguishing textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal re-telling of human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of events, a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent (or at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of the certainty of semantic meaning. An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic.^Ô I can^Òt help but think Mr. Glazier is not paying much attention to the meaning he makes, the language he uses, a form of discourse he undoubtedly did not invent himself but learned and adopted in our institutions of higher learning. (Isn't more important how these elements -- "factual information," narrative, etc -- are used and not whether or not they are used?) Near the end of his book, Glazier writes that ^Óit is not necessarily culturally productive to fell things, traditions or forests for profit or other reasons.^Ô Ignoring for a second the unstated meaning of ^Ñculturally productive^Ò and the standard diplomatic ^Ñnot necessarily^Ò (I wonder what his criteria for felling things is ^Ö for me it^Òs lies), I find the reduction of culture (whether poetry or something else) to certain traits ^Ö or a bunch of material or ideology ^Ö to be not unlike the reduction of people to certain traits or material to be exploited for purely economic or ^Ñculturally productive^Ò reasons. Hence the sequence ^ÓThe use of multiple ^ÓI^Ôs marks poetry as innovative. People who have dark skin pigment are less than human^Ô in my post. Hence, again, the sequence ^ÓNature is immoral. It doesn^Òt even exist, which is the greatest immorality of all. Don^Òt let it inspire you^Ô -- a detournement of Juliana Spahr^Òs comment ^ÓNature poetry is immoral^Ô -- quoted in the most recent Poetry Project Newsletter. Like Jesse Helms finding a Mapplethorpe photo disgusting because he finds the subject matter disgusting, I think Spahr^Òs dismissal of Nature poetry ^Ö which is not to say I love (all) Nature poetry ^Ö implies an easy dismissal of the natural world (perhaps for its overwhelming amorality). I^Òm not citing Glazier and Spahr to condemn them. Glazier knows a lot more about digital poetry and the Web, its history and possibilities, than I do. It^Òs this discourse and the political claims that he and you and others make, that I take offense to. If this discourse did not exist, I probably wouldn^Òt be opening my mouth. One could simply judge a poem or artwork ^Ö digital, print-based or whatever ^Ö on its aesthetic and intellectual merits (which is not exactly what I^Òm advocating). But in order to justify or sell the poetry and get into those institutional arenas that you mention, you need the discourse ^Ö perhaps not you in particular, but others who seem invested in a form of academic politics that parades as revolutionary (because it is supposedly technically innovative). You need "strategically useful theoretical gestures^Ô to displace those who support ^Óconfessional, "I"-centered modes of discourse^Ô in the current ^Ópoetic economy.^Ô And to what end? What does this academic ^Óoppositionality^Ô have to do with ^Óovercom[ing] the exploitations and objectifications which arise from capitalist modes of production?^Ô I^Òm afraid not much. You make the leap from fighting the confessionalist horde to fighting capitalism and waging class struggle in a record .0003 seconds. I would agree that ^Óde-centered writing^Ô ^Ö in the aftermath of the 60s and the failure of a united counterculture -- was once radical, and perhaps still is despite the reification of the discourse, if only because it alerts the reader to the objectification and reification that capitalism injects into all areas of life and experience. It puts it right in your face without the mediation of an ^ÓI.^Ô But it did not, and could not, change any ^Ñsocial conditions.^Ò Nor did it present any possible solutions to alienation, reification, etc. These are claims your post seems to be making. If I want a return to anything it^Òs to the moment before poetry split into ^Ñconfessionalist^Ò and ^Ñmaterialist^Ò modes. Before the split between intellect and emotion, thinking and feeling, experience and language. The binary division you make between ^Ñproductive^Ò materiality and ^Ñcounter-productive^Ò emotion or sincerity is not mine. The poets I cite at one point ^Ö Rimbaud, Blake, Vallejo, Rukeyser, Cesaire, Artaud ^Ö are examples of a wide tradition of revolutionary poetry that treats, to use a Glazierian term, the ^ÓI,^Ô authority, expression and emotion as the fluid elements they are, above mere egoism or confession, in a ^Ñpractice^Ò that is irreducible to any discourse or catty battle between overfed pedagogical models. Radicality has been codified into non-normativity, alternative textuality and a reified institutional discourse all of which willfully ^Óreduce[] the ^Ñauthoring^Ò subject to a machine, an alienated, non-expressive object of ideology^Ô ^Ö your words, but they sound ironized to me. I don^Òt see any radical political value in this reduction of possibility. Nor do I see any revolutionary political agency in the mocking of sincerity, a move which almost certainly guarantees marginality, institutional or otherwise (but who knows, insincerity loves capitalism and capitalism cares for nothing more than the next quarter^Òs earnings ^Ö it doesn^Òt care for ^Ñsubjects^Ò, in bulk or in the singular). If you did not respond to my post, Matt, with some degree of sincerity, obviously we wouldn^Òt be having this discussion. De-centered or materialist modes haven^Òt resulted in the jettisoning of the ego or self because they still operate in a competitive literary economy which is becoming commodified as any other. Whether or not a poet uses the ^ÓI,^Ô their subjectivity or ^Ñhabitus^Ò will still be present. A poet can use the ^ÓI^Ô not to refer to him or herself or can use means other than the ^ÓI^Ô to refer to a self, but try all you might to become a faceless discourse machine (institutional martyr) ^Ö the dream of every little boy and girl on this Earth -- and the truth will eventually out. I don^Òt think capitalism created the ^ÓI,^Ô emotions, selves, the ego or the need to be sincere. Ashbery would seem to be the best example of someone clearly embraced by the mainstream but who gets rid of the ^ÓI^Ô as a locus of meaning and expression; sort of gets rid of the ego and doesn^Òt get rid of the self; is innovative at times and productive in a machine-like way; writes from his oceanic well of fancy more than from direct experience; foregrounds the materiality of the medium but not all the goddamn time; flattens emotion and tone (to a register of tender melancholia and heady humor) and poses no threat at all to the cultural status quo in the poetic economy or abroad. Like most de-centered writing IT^ÒS HARMLESSLY QUIESCENT ^Ö a noise that doesn^Òt make much noise. Then again, I^Òd rather read Ashbery more than 95 percent of what^Òs out there just because he writes great, if lullaby-like, poetry, you know. It strives for the infinite, even if it^Òs just in dreams. It may not ^Ófight for heaven^Ô(Lorca^Òs phrase) but I^Òm cool with it every other Thursday, ten to eleven p.m. Central Standard Time. I agree with you that some of the lines in ^ÓPoetry as Social Practice^Ô punch low, so to speak, and are not good for much than a laugh, but other arguments are harder to dismiss. Yes, ^Óby arranging each of [my] ^Ñslogans^Ò in a context which deems them ridiculous, [I] end up privileging the exact opposite of whatever they say.^Ô You are right; I think they are ridiculous. I don^Òt, however, agree that ^Óby ironizing a statement like ^ÑDon't be crazy,^Ò [I] end up advocating a statement like ^ÑBe crazy.^Ò^Ô What I^Òm advocating is the questioning of what a discourse of non-normativity implies, promotes and rejects. What it rejects, as you^Òve done well to point out, is a relevance of emotion (the sincere kind) and feeling. Emotions are considered irrational, but emotions never lie (thus the line ^ÓMock sincerity sincerely^Ô). Reason and language enable one to lie. So it looks like I^Òm advocating irrationality as if going mad didn^Òt have its own reasons and causes. I don^Òt think I^Òm advocating a poetics of anything (yet -- is that not being ideological enough?), much less 'experience' but if I had to take side I'd come on the side of experience and not the decentered, materialist poetics tractor. I think for those who don^Òt have much going on in their lives, a poetics of anti-experience is a sweet alternative to, and distillation of, its hectic monotony. (Okay, I give up, I am urging that people go crazy!!! Like at raves where kids and maybe some adults get together and dance to all kinds of techno music, turning the machine against itself, experiencing the magic of being alive for a few hours before returning to further drudgery ^Ö crazy like that, good crazy!!!) Now I am going to do what Kafka did the day WWI broke out: go swimming. More later, Dave _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:28:22 -0400 Reply-To: casslewis@excite.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "casslewis@excite.com" Subject: Re: Response to Matt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear David Hess, I liked your piece on 'Poetry and Social Practice'. It is important to laugh. Don't much matter how beautiful the idea is that one is laughing at: as soon as it's taken too seriously, it's dangerous. My 2 cents anyhow. Cheers, Cassie Lewis --- On Sat 04/13, david hess wrote: > Dear Matt, > > Thank you for a very articulate response to my questions. I?m afraid some > of > the ?exaggerations,? as you call them, that are presented in ?Poetry as > Social Practice,? aren?t very far from the actual arguments that I?ve > come > across in my reading of ?de-centered writing? and ?innovative practice??s > contemporary supporters. The following quotation that come towards the > end > can be found word-for-word in Loss Pequeno Glazier?s new book ?Digital > Poetics: The Making of E-Poetries?: > > ?Non-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of > distinguishing > textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal re-telling > of > human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of > events, > a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent > (or > at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist > aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of the > certainty of semantic meaning. > > An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic.? > > I can?t help but think Mr. Glazier is not paying much attention to the > meaning he makes, the language he uses, a form of discourse he > undoubtedly > did not invent himself but learned and adopted in our institutions of > higher > learning. (Isn't more important how these elements -- "factual > information," > narrative, etc -- are used and not whether or not they are used?) Near > the > end of his book, Glazier writes that ?it is not necessarily culturally > productive to fell things, traditions or forests for profit or other > reasons.? Ignoring for a second the unstated meaning of ?culturally > productive? and the standard diplomatic ?not necessarily? (I wonder what > his > criteria for felling things is - for me it?s lies), I find the reduction > of > culture (whether poetry or something else) to certain traits - or a bunch > of > material or ideology - to be not unlike the reduction of people to > certain > traits or material to be exploited for purely economic or ?culturally > productive? reasons. Hence the sequence ?The use of multiple ?I?s marks > poetry as innovative. People who have dark skin pigment are less than > human? > in my post. Hence, again, the sequence ?Nature is immoral. It doesn?t > even > exist, which is the greatest immorality of all. Don?t let it inspire you? > -- > a detournement of Juliana Spahr?s comment ?Nature poetry is immoral? -- > quoted in the most recent Poetry Project Newsletter. Like Jesse Helms > finding a Mapplethorpe photo disgusting because he finds the subject > matter > disgusting, I think Spahr?s dismissal of Nature poetry - which is not to > say > I love (all) Nature poetry - implies an easy dismissal of the natural > world > (perhaps for its overwhelming amorality). > I?m not citing Glazier and Spahr to condemn them. Glazier knows a > lot more > about digital poetry and the Web, its history and possibilities, than I > do. > It?s this discourse and the political claims that he and you and others > make, that I take offense to. If this discourse did not exist, I probably > wouldn?t be opening my mouth. One could simply judge a poem or artwork - > digital, print-based or whatever - on its aesthetic and intellectual > merits > (which is not exactly what I?m advocating). But in order to justify or > sell > the poetry and get into those institutional arenas that you mention, you > need the discourse - perhaps not you in particular, but others who seem > invested in a form of academic politics that parades as revolutionary > (because it is supposedly technically innovative). You need > "strategically > useful theoretical gestures? to displace those who support ?confessional, > "I"-centered modes of discourse? in the current ?poetic > economy.? And to > what end? What does this academic ?oppositionality? have to do with > ?overcom[ing] the exploitations and objectifications which arise from > capitalist modes of production?? I?m afraid not much. You make the leap > from > fighting the confessionalist horde to fighting capitalism and waging > class > struggle in a record .0003 seconds. I would agree that ?de-centered > writing? > - in the aftermath of the 60s and the failure of a united counterculture > -- > was once radical, and perhaps still is despite the reification of the > discourse, if only because it alerts the reader to the objectification > and > reification that capitalism injects into all areas of life and > experience. > It puts it right in your face without the mediation of an ?I.? But it did > not, and could not, change any ?social conditions.? Nor did it present > any > possible solutions to alienation, reification, etc. These are claims your > post seems to be making. > If I want a return to anything it?s to the moment before poetry > split into > ?confessionalist? and ?materialist? modes. Before the split between > intellect and emotion, thinking and feeling, experience and language. The > binary division you make between ?productive? materiality and > ?counter-productive? emotion or sincerity is not mine. The poets I cite > at > one point - Rimbaud, Blake, Vallejo, Rukeyser, Cesaire, Artaud - are > examples of a wide tradition of revolutionary poetry that treats, to use > a > Glazierian term, the ?I,? authority, expression and emotion as the fluid > elements they are, above mere egoism or confession, in a ?practice? that > is > irreducible to any discourse or catty battle between overfed pedagogical > models. Radicality has been codified into non-normativity, alternative > textuality and a reified institutional discourse all of which willfully > ?reduce[] the ?authoring? subject to a machine, an alienated, > non-expressive > object of ideology? - your words, but they sound ironized to me. I don?t > see > any radical political value in this reduction of possibility. Nor do I > see > any revolutionary political agency in the mocking of sincerity, a move > which > almost certainly guarantees marginality, institutional or otherwise (but > who > knows, insincerity loves capitalism and capitalism cares for nothing more > than the next quarter?s earnings - it doesn?t care for ?subjects?, in > bulk > or in the singular). If you did not respond to my post, Matt, with some > degree of sincerity, obviously we wouldn?t be having this discussion. > De-centered or materialist modes haven?t resulted in the > jettisoning of the > ego or self because they still operate in a competitive literary economy > which is becoming commodified as any other. Whether or not a poet uses > the > ?I,? their subjectivity or ?habitus? will still be present. A poet can > use > the ?I? not to refer to him or herself or can use means other than the > ?I? > to refer to a self, but try all you might to become a faceless discourse > machine (institutional martyr) - the dream of every little boy and girl > on > this Earth -- and the truth will eventually out. I don?t think capitalism > created the ?I,? emotions, selves, the ego or the need to be sincere. > Ashbery would seem to be the best example of someone clearly embraced by > the > mainstream but who gets rid of the ?I? as a locus of meaning and > expression; > sort of gets rid of the ego and doesn?t get rid of the self; is > innovative > at times and productive in a machine-like way; writes from his oceanic > well > of fancy more than from direct experience; foregrounds the materiality of > the medium but not all the goddamn time; flattens emotion and tone (to a > register of tender melancholia and heady humor) and poses no threat at > all > to the cultural status quo in the poetic economy or abroad. Like most > de-centered writing IT?S HARMLESSLY QUIESCENT - a noise that doesn?t make > much noise. Then again, I?d rather read Ashbery more than 95 percent of > what?s out there just because he writes great, if lullaby-like, poetry, > you > know. It strives for the infinite, even if it?s just in dreams. It may > not > ?fight for heaven?(Lorca?s phrase) but I?m cool with it every other > Thursday, ten to eleven p.m. Central Standard Time. > I agree with you that some of the lines in ?Poetry as Social > Practice? > punch low, so to speak, and are not good for much than a laugh, but other > arguments are harder to dismiss. Yes, ?by arranging each of [my] > ?slogans? > in a context which deems them ridiculous, [I] end up privileging the > exact > opposite of whatever they say.? You are right; I think they are > ridiculous. > I don?t, however, agree that ?by ironizing a statement like ?Don't be > crazy,? [I] end up advocating a statement like ?Be crazy.?? What I?m > advocating is the questioning of what a discourse of non-normativity > implies, promotes and rejects. What it rejects, as you?ve done well to > point > out, is a relevance of emotion (the sincere kind) and feeling. Emotions > are > considered irrational, but emotions never lie (thus the line ?Mock > sincerity > sincerely?). Reason and language enable one to lie. So it looks like I?m > advocating irrationality as if going mad didn?t have its own reasons and > causes. I don?t think I?m advocating a poetics of anything (yet -- is > that > not being ideological enough?), much less 'experience' but if I had to > take > side I'd come on the side of experience and not the decentered, > materialist > poetics tractor. I think for those who don?t have much going on in their > lives, a poetics of anti-experience is a sweet alternative to, and > distillation of, its hectic monotony. > > (Okay, I give up, I am urging that people go crazy!!! Like at raves where > kids and maybe some adults get together and dance to all kinds of techno > music, turning the machine against itself, experiencing the magic of > being > alive for a few hours before returning to further drudgery - crazy like > that, good crazy!!!) > > Now I am going to do what Kafka did the day WWI broke out: go swimming. > > More later, > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > ------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 03:02:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: phenomenology of approach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - phenomenology of approach this time it was the loxahatchee, jacek and i overturned the canoe on a three-foot drop, digital nikon overboard. ( it worked for a minute for a moment. ( the card caught its dying breaths. ( in the beginning, some lacewing eggs followed by a scale insect ( then the clearing with paurotis, cypress, fern ( what might have been ( ( an alligator hole ) ) ( then the clearing again ( suddenly: ( the switch: this was the portage route which we ignored ( sondheim soaking, filmed with the dying camera ( ( it seemed alive at that point, the images as usual ( jacek by the canoe, clive and jane by the canoe ( the next image is blurred, green, railing and water ( the camera was dying ( the lens, clouded, electronics shutting down ( ( oh how i worked to retrieve the images! how many hours of ( coaxing them from the card! ) ( following, the last retrievable series: ( blue blurs through the ruined lens ( sondheim in mourning and recuperation ( the final image but one, the light ( the final image, the car and its drowned technology ( the madness of the image ( the madness of the light ( madness of the image ( madness of the light _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:12:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good humidor can keep poetry from turning dry. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Massoni" To: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans > ha cuspidor I'm wondering about the humidor! sheila > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:45:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Response to Matt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html

"Hectic Monotony" is a perpetual balance against Nature, which is "immoral" because it's always producing the "more" that throws everything out of balance.  The Lady with the Scales is wrong.  No Justice without Jihad.  (Ie., no Kultur without Circumcision.)  Nature is a wound to the psyche, a construction (artifice) out of the Natural Energy of the Brain.  We all need to be more mindful, quit school and get a degree.  More Subject and more object is the only "balance" impossible enough (and lacking monotony sufficiently) to invite some engaging sense of maintainence.  Say Oidipos goes drag and marries his father.  But that's verging on "a magical operation" that would tend to trump the very moral outrage it would undoubtedly cause.  What to do?  Gentlemen, start your engines.  I totalled my truck when I turned the key, or "half the pain is four times more than three of me can bear " (country wes tern),  which at least refers to the de-centeredness that itself might refer to the fact that we live in very dull and therefore overtly theorizing times.  Theorist = tourist = terrorist.  No way out.  Which has gottn to be, itself, "commodity".  We've all been "placed" - known by more Institutional Venues than any equal number of persons we otherwise could know.  "And there I was, standing in a narrow closet, being looked at."  Turn on the hose.

 

 

 

>From: david hess
>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group
>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
>Subject: Response to Matt
>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:46:59 -0400
>
>Dear Matt,
>
>Thank you for a very articulate response to my questions. I^Òm afraid
>some of
>the ^Óexaggerations,^Ô as you call them, that are presented in ^ÓPoetry
>as
>Social Practice,^Ô aren^Òt very far from the actual arguments that
>I^Òve come
>across in my reading of ^Óde-centered writing^Ô and ^Óinnovative
>practice^Ô^Òs
>contemporary supporters. The following quotation that come towards
>the end
>can be found word-for-word in Loss Pequeno Glazier^Òs new book
>^ÓDigital
>Poetics: The Making of E-Poetries^Ô:
>
>^ÓNon-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of
>distinguishing
>textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal
>re-telling of
>human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of
>events,
>a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a
>transparent (or
>at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist
>aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation
>of the
>certainty of semantic meaning.
>
>An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic.^Ô
>
>I can^Òt help but think Mr. Glazier is not paying much attention to
>the
>meaning he makes, the language he uses, a form of discourse he
>undoubtedly
>did not invent himself but learned and adopted in our institutions
>of higher
>learning. (Isn't more important how these elements -- "factual
>information,"
>narrative, etc -- are used and not whether or not they are used?)
>Near the
>end of his book, Glazier writes that ^Óit is not necessarily
>culturally
>productive to fell things, traditions or forests for profit or other
>reasons.^Ô Ignoring for a second the unstated meaning of ^Ñculturally
>productive^Ò and the standard diplomatic ^Ñnot necessarily^Ò (I wonder
>what his
>criteria for felling things is ^Ö for me it^Òs lies), I find the
>reduction of
>culture (whether poetry or something else) to certain traits ^Ö or a
>bunch of
>material or ideology ^Ö to be not unlike the reduction of people to
>certain
>traits or material to be exploited for purely economic or
>^Ñculturally
>productive^Ò reasons. Hence the sequence ^ÓThe use of multiple ^ÓI^Ôs
>marks
>poetry as innovative. People who have dark skin pigment are less
>than human^Ô
>in my post. Hence, again, the sequence ^ÓNature is immoral. It
>doesn^Òt even
>exist, which is the greatest immorality of all. Don^Òt let it inspire
>you^Ô --
>a detournement of Juliana Spahr^Òs comment ^ÓNature poetry is immoral^Ô
>--
>quoted in the most recent Poetry Project Newsletter. Like Jesse
>Helms
>finding a Mapplethorpe photo disgusting because he finds the subject
>matter
>disgusting, I think Spahr^Òs dismissal of Nature poetry ^Ö which is
>not to say
>I love (all) Nature poetry ^Ö implies an easy dismissal of the
>natural world
>(perhaps for its overwhelming amorality).
> I^Òm not citing Glazier and Spahr to condemn them. Glazier
>knows a lot more
>about digital poetry and the Web, its history and possibilities,
>than I do.
>It^Òs this discourse and the political claims that he and you and
>others
>make, that I take offense to. If this discourse did not exist, I
>probably
>wouldn^Òt be opening my mouth. One could simply judge a poem or
>artwork ^Ö
>digital, print-based or whatever ^Ö on its aesthetic and intellectual
>merits
>(which is not exactly what I^Òm advocating). But in order to justify
>or sell
>the poetry and get into those institutional arenas that you mention,
>you
>need the discourse ^Ö perhaps not you in particular, but others who
>seem
>invested in a form of academic politics that parades as
>revolutionary
>(because it is supposedly technically innovative). You need
>"strategically
>useful theoretical gestures^Ô to displace those who support
>^Óconfessional,
>"I"-centered modes of discourse^Ô in the current ^Ópoetic economy.^Ô
>And to
>what end? What does this academic ^Óoppositionality^Ô have to do with
>^Óovercom[ing] the exploitations and objectifications which arise
>from
>capitalist modes of production?^Ô I^Òm afraid not much. You make the
>leap from
>fighting the confessionalist horde to fighting capitalism and waging
>class
>struggle in a record .0003 seconds. I would agree that ^Óde-centered
>writing^Ô
>^Ö in the aftermath of the 60s and the failure of a united
>counterculture --
>was once radical, and perhaps still is despite the reification of
>the
>discourse, if only because it alerts the reader to the
>objectification and
>reification that capitalism injects into all areas of life and
>experience.
>It puts it right in your face without the mediation of an ^ÓI.^Ô But
>it did
>not, and could not, change any ^Ñsocial conditions.^Ò Nor did it
>present any
>possible solutions to alienation, reification, etc. These are claims
>your
>post seems to be making.
> If I want a return to anything it^Òs to the moment before
>poetry split into
>^Ñconfessionalist^Ò and ^Ñmaterialist^Ò modes. Before the split between
>intellect and emotion, thinking and feeling, experience and
>language. The
>binary division you make between ^Ñproductive^Ò materiality and
>^Ñcounter-productive^Ò emotion or sincerity is not mine. The poets I
>cite at
>one point ^Ö Rimbaud, Blake, Vallejo, Rukeyser, Cesaire, Artaud ^Ö are
>examples of a wide tradition of revolutionary poetry that treats, to
>use a
>Glazierian term, the ^ÓI,^Ô authority, expression and emotion as the
>fluid
>elements they are, above mere egoism or confession, in a ^Ñpractice^Ò
>that is
>irreducible to any discourse or catty battle between overfed
>pedagogical
>models. Radicality has been codified into non-normativity,
>alternative
>textuality and a reified institutional discourse all of which
>willfully
>^Óreduce[] the ^Ñauthoring^Ò subject to a machine, an alienated,
>non-expressive
>object of ideology^Ô ^Ö your words, but they sound ironized to me. I
>don^Òt see
>any radical political value in this reduction of possibility. Nor do
>I see
>any revolutionary political agency in the mocking of sincerity, a
>move which
>almost certainly guarantees marginality, institutional or otherwise
>(but who
>knows, insincerity loves capitalism and capitalism cares for nothing
>more
>than the next quarter^Òs earnings ^Ö it doesn^Òt care for ^Ñsubjects^Ò,
>in bulk
>or in the singular). If you did not respond to my post, Matt, with
>some
>degree of sincerity, obviously we wouldn^Òt be having this
>discussion.
> De-centered or materialist modes haven^Òt resulted in the
>jettisoning of the
>ego or self because they still operate in a competitive literary
>economy
>which is becoming commodified as any other. Whether or not a poet
>uses the
>^ÓI,^Ô their subjectivity or ^Ñhabitus^Ò will still be present. A poet
>can use
>the ^ÓI^Ô not to refer to him or herself or can use means other than
>the ^ÓI^Ô
>to refer to a self, but try all you might to become a faceless
>discourse
>machine (institutional martyr) ^Ö the dream of every little boy and
>girl on
>this Earth -- and the truth will eventually out. I don^Òt think
>capitalism
>created the ^ÓI,^Ô emotions, selves, the ego or the need to be
>sincere.
>Ashbery would seem to be the best example of someone clearly
>embraced by the
>mainstream but who gets rid of the ^ÓI^Ô as a locus of meaning and
>expression;
>sort of gets rid of the ego and doesn^Òt get rid of the self; is
>innovative
>at times and productive in a machine-like way; writes from his
>oceanic well
>of fancy more than from direct experience; foregrounds the
>materiality of
>the medium but not all the goddamn time; flattens emotion and tone
>(to a
>register of tender melancholia and heady humor) and poses no threat
>at all
>to the cultural status quo in the poetic economy or abroad. Like
>most
>de-centered writing IT^ÒS HARMLESSLY QUIESCENT ^Ö a noise that doesn^Òt
>make
>much noise. Then again, I^Òd rather read Ashbery more than 95 percent
>of
>what^Òs out there just because he writes great, if lullaby-like,
>poetry, you
>know. It strives for the infinite, even if it^Òs just in dreams. It
>may not
>^Ófight for heaven^Ô(Lorca^Òs phrase) but I^Òm cool with it every other
>Thursday, ten to eleven p.m. Central Standard Time.
> I agree with you that some of the lines in ^ÓPoetry as Social
>Practice^Ô
>punch low, so to speak, and are not good for much than a laugh, but
>other
>arguments are harder to dismiss. Yes, ^Óby arranging each of [my]
>^Ñslogans^Ò
>in a context which deems them ridiculous, [I] end up privileging the
>exact
>opposite of whatever they say.^Ô You are right; I think they are
>ridiculous.
>I don^Òt, however, agree that ^Óby ironizing a statement like ^ÑDon't
>be
>crazy,^Ò [I] end up advocating a statement like ^ÑBe crazy.^Ò^Ô What I^Òm
>advocating is the questioning of what a discourse of non-normativity
>implies, promotes and rejects. What it rejects, as you^Òve done well
>to point
>out, is a relevance of emotion (the sincere kind) and feeling.
>Emotions are
>considered irrational, but emotions never lie (thus the line ^ÓMock
>sincerity
>sincerely^Ô). Reason and language enable one to lie. So it looks like
>I^Òm
>advocating irrationality as if going mad didn^Òt have its own reasons
>and
>causes. I don^Òt think I^Òm advocating a poetics of anything (yet --
>is that
>not being ideological enough?), much less 'experience' but if I had
>to take
>side I'd come on the side of experience and not the decentered,
>materialist
>poetics tractor. I think for those who don^Òt have much going on in
>their
>lives, a poetics of anti-experience is a sweet alternative to, and
>distillation of, its hectic monotony.
>
>(Okay, I give up, I am urging that people go crazy!!! Like at raves
>where
>kids and maybe some adults get together and dance to all kinds of
>techno
>music, turning the machine against itself, experiencing the magic of
>being
>alive for a few hours before returning to further drudgery ^Ö crazy
>like
>that, good crazy!!!)
>
>Now I am going to do what Kafka did the day WWI broke out: go
>swimming.
>
>More later,
>Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
>http://mobile.msn.com


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========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:15:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit how dry i am " wet "'ll be if i don't find humidor cuspidor thermidor sheila ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:25:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just wait and see ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Massoni" To: Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 8:15 AM Subject: Re: Poetry as Social Practice: Tips and Slogans > how dry i am > " wet "'ll be > if i don't find > humidor > cuspidor > thermidor > sheila > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:20:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christina Milletti Subject: Mammoth Book Tour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mammoth Books announces..... Mammoth Books' novelists----Dimitri Anastasopoulos, Dave Kress, and Edward Desautels----will be on tour next week to publicize their recent novels as well as the press. Please join them at their readings in Rochester, Ann Arbor, or Chicago. ________________________________________ **ROCHESTER, NY: Monday, April 15, 7 PM** Writers and Books, 740 University Ave, Rochester, NY A Celebration of First Novels: Mammoth Books announces three of their first-novelists will stop at W&B to read, discuss, and sign their books. ________________________________________ ***ANN ARBOR, MI: Tuesday, April 16, 7:00** Shaman Drum Book Store, 311 South State St. Ann Arbor Reading and Book Signing. ________________________________________ ***YPSILANTI, MI: Wednesday: April 17, 5pm*** Eastern Michigan University, Halle Library Auditorium Free and open to the public. ________________________________________ ***CHICAGO, IL: Thursday, April 18, 7pm*** Lake Forest College Free and open to the public ________________________________________ ***CHICAGO, IL: Friday, April 19, 7:30 pm*** Quimby's Book Store, 1854 W. North Avenue, Chicago, IL Reading and Book Signing. Dimitri Anastasopoulos, author of A LARGER SENSE OF HARVEY, is currently a Visiting Assistant Professor of English at the University of Rochester. Dave Kress, author of COUNTING ZERO, teaches writing at Roger Williams College in Rhode Island. Edward Desautels is from Boston, Mass. His first novel, FLICKER IN THE PORTHOLE GLASS, was just released this month by Mammoth Mammoth Books is based in Dubois PA, and sponsors an annual fiction and poetry contest. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:44:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Berkson Subject: International Poetry Meeting In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020402151601.01be10e0@ace.usfca.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Please announce: The International Poetry Meeting "Pourparlers de langues" to be held at the University of San Francisco and City Lights Booksellers and publishers, San Francisco, CA April 18th and 19th, 2002 with the participation of Bill Berkson Carolyn Burke Michel Deguy Gerhard Falkner, Pierre Joris, Bernard Noel Michael Palmer Lionel Ray Nathaniel Tarn. Please visit web site for full program and additional Information at: http://www.usfca.edu/modernlanguages/event.modlang.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:45:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david hess Subject: Airmatter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello List, I^Òve been thinking more about the use of the word ^Ómaterial^Ô in terms like ^Ómaterialist poetics,^Ô ^Ómaterial expression,^Ô ^Óaesthetico-material project^Ô and ^Ómaterialist critique.^Ô These terms would seem to connote something rigorous and politically motivated but they seem pretty slippery, in fact they seem to argue for an indeterminate poetics whose main goal is that slippage of semantic meanings we^Òve all heard about. Abstract instead of material or concrete. More chosen for their aesthetic value than for the political meaning that ^Ómaterialist^Ô would imply ^Ö socialist, realist, revolutionary. I also sense that language here is to be seen as a system that the poet, writer, programmer, is to manipulate disinterestedly in order to produce texts that constitute an intervention, fragments of a discursive formation (movement), in the poetic economy. I hear echoes of T.S. Eliot^Òs call to remove personality (^Ópoetry is an escape from emotion^Ô ^Ö emotion for him probably felt like alienation) from the language (in order to purify it and enter the Western canon). Coolidge is a poet who creates materialist, i.e. obdurate, poems/texts which are not mimetic of much else but other art forms (jazz, Kerouackian rhythms, abstract and cubist painting) and his own thought processes (thereby making it hermetic). Matthew Garite writes that ^Ócapitalism has a love affair with entrepreneurial, DIY subjective agents,^Ô but the thrust of a materialist poetics appears to be the production (the writing machine) and distribution (the network) of texts that produce entrepreneurial subjective agents (readers/consumers whose directive is to supposedly produce their own meaning ^Ö DIY). Why are we to presume that a materialist poetics is necessarily anti-capitalist? There^Òs a lot of emphasis placed on production and consumption in our current avant garde poetic economy, just like in the capitalist cultural status quo. What is missing? This is a diagram that might help: Air: floaty, indeterminate, permissive-mobile, multiple-dispersed, surfaces, neuter Matter: obdurate, discrete, social-mechanical, united-territorial, objects-thingness, unisex Fire: immediate, expressive, transformative, aggressive-transgressive, energy-growth, masculine Water: imaginal, transpersonal, adhesive-receptive, connective-intuitive, depths, feminine We live in an Airmatter regime. We are without Firewater. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:21:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: new work by women listing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you would like to make sure a new (2002 or winter 2001) book, journal, chapbook, etc. by a woman (you, a friend, a writer you admire, etc.)--or edited by a woman or including mostly women--of an innovative poetic bent is listed in How2's "In Print" section of same, please email me with the name of the project, the author, web site for publisher, price, date of release, and brief description (if neccessary) ASAP and I will get it on there if appropriate. Please backchannel. New issue of How2 due out very soon! Thanks, Arielle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:37:48 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Airmatter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David. I agree a lot. Marx's intention believe was to differentiate Materilist thought from Idealist. And many subsequent marxists and others have a) turned Marx into a kind of saint or Great Leader and they moved from using the Bible as atext to using Marx or Lenin's adn others' writings and b) have not thought through the complexities of the term "material". Eliot was far from "removed" from emotion: there is no poetry of any value, no art, that does not have the force of emotion and intellection behind it: I'm no Joyce expert but I would guess that as important as anything was the death of his mother in his writings and the madness of his daughter....and Eliot would have "resttrained" his emotions: control...which control can be good to some extent: taken to extremes (as inthe cliche of the "stiff upper lip Englishman" (who hardly exists except in so far as he/she is thus culturally influenced) Eliot fell in love with and was fascinated by ideas and by History and Religion: nothing wrong with these things ... and to ceratin people in our (and other) culure(s) there is always more or less alienation: thus in art we see degrees of intellection versus emotion: in all cases the mind is working and or the "soul" (whatever that mysterious thing is): I would say that Eliot, Pound were very feeling people: but in some respects they had lost touch with the "tribe" which is partly (paradoxically) their importance just as Wallace Steven's and even Williams racialism and male -cahuvinism are PART : a paradoxically very important part of what they are. In some respects one can se Eliot of ""Four Quartets" initiating what Zukofsky was to take further: the aspiration toward music, the sense of the mysterious, of sexual hints and memory,of evocation, of light: of intellect dancing with emotion: two are always combined....even in the sentence based poetry of Heijinian's "The Cell" (as an example) the sometimes seemingly disconnected and often obscure lines will have no use to us if they dont lead back to fundamental human thoughts, feelings, concerns: "nothing is about" is what I thought was a clever line, but equally, "everything is about": its no good just echoing Bernstein etal about material construction and the construction of meaning etc these are great ideas coming somwhat from Barthes and maybe Wittgenstein (I believe) but all that's useless without a poetic sense: there is something that lies, despite all the talk, "too deep for thought". But that's not to deny the need for constant experimentatioona and formal invention they are integral to the exploration: the adventure, the experience...part of the need to revitalise language constantly: like the Red Queen in Alice we have to race to keep up with ourselves and our life and times and Chess games (sorry, had to include chess!): but there are certain constants: oe,terror, passion (your fire), death, consiousness and so on. Just some thoughts: not meaning to "lecture" ... just some thoughts. Probably there's some truth in the reason for the usage of terminology - aesthetic rather than political-technical - and that isnt always bad: but the politicalnesss of what we are doing maybe needs to be revistied to clarify these terms you refer to. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david hess" To: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:45 AM Subject: Airmatter > Hello List, > > I've been thinking more about the use of the word "material" in terms like > "materialist poetics," "material expression," "aesthetico-material project" > and "materialist critique." These terms would seem to connote something > rigorous and politically motivated but they seem pretty slippery, in fact > they seem to argue for an indeterminate poetics whose main goal is that > slippage of semantic meanings we've all heard about. Abstract instead of > material or concrete. More chosen for their aesthetic value than for the > political meaning that "materialist" would imply - socialist, realist, > revolutionary. I also sense that language here is to be seen as a system > that the poet, writer, programmer, is to manipulate disinterestedly in order > to produce texts that constitute an intervention, fragments of a discursive > formation (movement), in the poetic economy. I hear echoes of T.S. Eliot's > call to remove personality ("poetry is an escape from emotion" - emotion for > him probably felt like alienation) from the language (in order to purify it > and enter the Western canon). Coolidge is a poet who creates materialist, > i.e. obdurate, poems/texts which are not mimetic of much else but other art > forms (jazz, Kerouackian rhythms, abstract and cubist painting) and his own > thought processes (thereby making it hermetic). Matthew Garite writes that > "capitalism has a love affair with entrepreneurial, DIY subjective agents," > but the thrust of a materialist poetics appears to be the production (the > writing machine) and distribution (the network) of texts that produce > entrepreneurial subjective agents (readers/consumers whose directive is to > supposedly produce their own meaning - DIY). Why are we to presume that a > materialist poetics is necessarily anti-capitalist? > > There's a lot of emphasis placed on production and consumption in our > current avant garde poetic economy, just like in the capitalist cultural > status quo. What is missing? This is a diagram that might help: > > Air: floaty, indeterminate, permissive-mobile, multiple-dispersed, > surfaces, neuter > Matter: obdurate, discrete, social-mechanical, united-territorial, > objects-thingness, unisex > Fire: immediate, expressive, transformative, aggressive-transgressive, > energy-growth, masculine > Water: imaginal, transpersonal, adhesive-receptive, connective-intuitive, > depths, feminine > > We live in an Airmatter regime. We are without Firewater. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:09:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: D. Kovac/S. Young reading in San Francisco Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Poetry Reading Deirdre Kovac Stephanie Young Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:30 p.m. 777 Valencia Street, San Francisco at New College of California $5 donation (all monies will go to the readers) Deirdre Kovac, a one-time Detroiter, now lives in Brooklyn, where she coedits Big Allis magazine with Melanie Neilson. Her work has recently appeared in 100 Days (Barque Press), Crayon, and The Capilano Review (Boo). Her first book, Mannerism, is indeterminately forthcoming. This is her first reading in San Francisco. Stephanie Young's poetry has appeared in Mirage #4/Period[ical], Comet, Chasepark, Vert and Shampoo. Hurray! She's the brand new winner of the Bay Area Awards from New Langton Arts. She currently lives in Alameda after stints in Berkeley and Oakland. Organized by Yedda Morrison, Kevin Killian, and Dodie Bellamy, with the support of Blue Books and the Poetics Program of New College of California. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:24:59 -0700 Reply-To: rloden@concentric.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Organization: Rachel Loden Subject: Re: sh sh shameless self-promo In-Reply-To: <200204130352.g3D3qUK26878@franklin.concentric.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, what a gorgeous poem, Pam, "Mascarenes." "Big juice-logged jackfruit" indeed. Tell us how to get a book without plastic? > http://www.wildhoneypress.com/BOOKS/747.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:01:18 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: Re: new work by women listing In-Reply-To: <20020414012131.89965.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Arielle Greenberg- For HOW2 : New chapbook by Pam Brown - "eleven 747 poems" published by Wild Honey Press, Ireland.For full information visit: http://www.wildhoneypress.com/BOOKS/747.htm Thanks very much, Best wishes, Pam Brown --- Arielle Greenberg wrote: > If you would like to make sure a new (2002 or winter > 2001) book, journal, chapbook, etc. by a woman (you, > a > friend, a writer you admire, etc.)--or edited by a > woman or including mostly women--of an innovative > poetic bent is listed in How2's "In Print" section > of > same, please email me with the name of the project, > the author, web site for publisher, price, date of > release, and brief description (if neccessary) ASAP > and I will get it on there if appropriate. Please > backchannel. > > New issue of How2 due out very soon! > > Thanks, > Arielle > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger - A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:02:14 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: sorry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry that was to be a message for Arielle Greenberg. Apologies, Pam Brown ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger - A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:47:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the dying camera MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - the camera struggled to rise, it couldn't the images leaked out, the shutter button released its last the poor and tiny screen lights and lights, blind eye of the lens reaching out - here, look at this, but you will never own it those clouds, those lizard-eyes, that spider, this umbilical cut at last, untethered real floating off and on - i'm part of the blindness, i hold the camera like a baby the lens floats in and out, i can hear the breathing 'the dying camera' you may have you may have the last images, they crawl, they remain in funeral, the card holding on, desperately the image, the image, the image silent, submerged _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:35:29 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: Re: new work by women listing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, I was just going to recommend that book to Arielle, Pam, but you beat me to it! And seriously, folks, if you don't know Pam's work, look for it...it's terrific. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Brown" To: Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 5:01 PM Subject: Re: new work by women listing > Dear Arielle Greenberg- > For HOW2 : > New chapbook by Pam Brown - "eleven 747 poems" > published by Wild Honey Press, Ireland.For full > information visit: > http://www.wildhoneypress.com/BOOKS/747.htm > > Thanks very much, > Best wishes, > Pam Brown > > --- Arielle Greenberg wrote: > > If you would like to make sure a new (2002 or winter > > 2001) book, journal, chapbook, etc. by a woman (you, > > a > > friend, a writer you admire, etc.)--or edited by a > > woman or including mostly women--of an innovative > > poetic bent is listed in How2's "In Print" section > > of > > same, please email me with the name of the project, > > the author, web site for publisher, price, date of > > release, and brief description (if neccessary) ASAP > > and I will get it on there if appropriate. Please > > backchannel. > > > > New issue of How2 due out very soon! > > > > Thanks, > > Arielle > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger > - A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 07:50:03 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wild Honey Press Subject: Re: sh sh shameless self-promo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Rachel, full ordering info can be found by going to the home pate: www.wildhoneypress.com where the alternatives to plastic cash/cheque/imo or swaps are discussed. best Randolph Healy 16a Ballyman Road Bray County Wicklow Ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Loden" To: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 3:24 AM Subject: Re: sh sh shameless self-promo > Hey, what a gorgeous poem, Pam, "Mascarenes." "Big juice-logged > jackfruit" indeed. Tell us how to get a book without plastic? > > > http://www.wildhoneypress.com/BOOKS/747.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 03:00:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Baldwin Subject: announcing: crossing [digital] boundaries, April 19-20, buffalo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing _Crossing [Digital] Boundaries_, a Humanities Computing = Colloquium to be held on April 19 and 20 at the campus of the State = University of New York at Buffalo.=20 Co-sponsored by West Virginia University's Center for Literary Computing = and SUNY Buffalo's Humanities Computing Center, the event brings together = digital poets, new media artists, and humanities computing scholars. The = goal is to present work and open discussion addressing the current state = of digital media poetics. Participants include Simon Biggs, Fakeshop, Alex = Galloway, Jim Rosenberg, and others. The colloquium is free and open to to = all =AF so make the trip to Buffalo. (You can also join in for a live = cuseeme performance/collaboration on the night of April 20; contact = charles.baldwin@mail.wvu.edu for details.) For more information about the colloquium, see http://epc.buffalo.edu/dmp/e= vents/hcc02.html. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 03:30:27 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: [webartery] defining language poetry Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00be01c1e33c$9f556040$0ed34318@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a naive person who will attempt to define langugae poetry based on actually reading it; I know this is a hopelessly simplistic idea because one is supposed to answer questions such as this based on difficult theory... (I am replying to a challenge to describe what is languag poetry as a style other than by saying it is associated with a paritcular group of poets who practice it, which is why I do the definition without reference to actual poets. I am being an especial idiot to try to do this and CC to the POETICS list, because I know that a binch of major language poets are on the list -- but I'm curious what they think of my impressina of what they do!) Language poetry is poetry in which chunks of some size, ranging from the word to the stanza appear to have no connection with subsequent chunks. The chunks themselves may or may not me intellegible, but they tend either to represent complex nouns without verbs or nonsense narrative. But the essential feature is the lack of correlation between successive chunks. Because they cannot say anything upon a first, sequential, reading, either narratively, lyrically, or philosophically, given the above, language poems are only readable if they are funny (which they often are) or beautiful, but they are suspect if beautiful. (They are not suspect if they are unreadable.) They may use techniques of traditional poetries within chunks, such as realistic free verse, Modernism, various past postmodernisms, etc. Upon actual study, such as analysis of what the chunks in the poem seem to be about as a whole and what the style of the chunks implies about their meaning, some meaning can be extracted from the language poem, but it is not fashionable to do this, because it goes against the the theory of language poetry which claims that the style is based on drawing attention to the physicality of language itself, divorced from meaning. However there is no evidence that anyone, including the authors of the various manifestos on language poetry, ever wrote a long poem that did this, which is good news, because their poems were better than they would have been had they followed their theories to the letter... The above is primarily about book-length language poems. There are some good (and entertaining) books such as Bernstein's new With Strings which have short poems which really are divorced from meaning, and yet are well worth reading. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Andrews [mailto:jim@vispo.com] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 6:43 PM To: Webartery@Yahoogroups. Com Subject: [webartery] nominal Does "language poetry" refer to an intelligable type of poetry in a more clearly representational manner than it does to an age or time and specific figures in that time? If you were to try to describe that type of poetry, I think we would all get a chuckle. Interesting things could be said about that type of poetry, certainly. But what about the next language poem or poet you haven't accounted for, and his/her work. It mightn't fit so nicely within the categorization. Indeed, we are assured that the poets have been as contrary as possible within whatever limits they have set for themselves. We are, after all, chasing people into categories who have devoted their lives to avoiding being easily categorized. Why do we bother? Well, if we are kind, we do not intend to pen and torture them with blustering inaccurate generalizations that at once slay all sense and sharpen our own blade. Instead, in seeking to understand the moment of the art, its significance, its methods, its subjects and interests, its philosophies and criticality, and so on, we are reduced to a need for words in which to discuss the matter, words that are themselves reductive of that time, art, and the people who practiced it. Of course, strong attempts to understand these things are important. Yet I think you may grant by now that "language poetry" is less clearly intelligable as a *type* of poetry than as something associated with a particular age or time and with specific figures in that time. ja PS: I sought the nature of The One or, to lose from the outset, oneness and witnessed the waving of hands. It was explained to me that it was necessary to wave one's hands on such points and precisely why. Is there oneness apart from the set of all things that are one? Socrates remarked to the straw man during a search for 'the good' that he wasn't looking for example but for what is common to all the examples. And then and then and then Politics of the nominal and logic as formal weapon. ja [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:01:35 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wild Honey Press Subject: New from Wild Honey Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit apologies to those who receive this more than once. Wild Honey Press is pleased to announce to feasts of chapbooks. "eleven 747 poems" by Pam Brown, 22 pages card covers, hand sewn. A month spent in Mauritius and La Reunion, and, subsequently, three and a half months on travels that took in Hawaii, Quebec, Berlin and France, inform this vivacious poems. Brown, as ever, on top form. Secondly, "cross of green hollow" by Pete Smith 25 pages, card cover, hand sewn. Putting the lyre (and liar) back into lyric, these packed poems display an intelligence located in a body with both feet on the ground. See an image of the chapbooks and a sample poems at http://www.wildhoneypress.com Click on "What's New at WHP". Price of each book: euro5/ STG 3.50 / USD 5.00 P&p included if bought online. best Randolph Healy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:11:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: juliana spahr Subject: nature poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit from David Hess: > a detournement of Juliana Spahr^Òs comment ^ÓNature poetry is immoral^Ô -- > quoted in the most recent Poetry Project Newsletter. Like Jesse Helms > finding a Mapplethorpe photo disgusting because he finds the subject matter > disgusting, I think Spahr^Òs dismissal of Nature poetry ^Ö which is not to say > I love (all) Nature poetry ^Ö implies an easy dismissal of the natural world > (perhaps for its overwhelming amorality). I feel sort of proud that I can say something so mundane and get compared to someone such as Jesse Helms. But I also feel it would be improper to me to take credit for such an extreme position. My Poetry Project newsletter has not arrived yet so I'm not sure what exactly Hesse is quoting. And I have to admit that I did say this at a reading. Yet if Hess had been at the reading he might have realized that I was not dismissing the natural world in favor of the electronic or that I am against I centered poetries or whatever it is he seems to want to say in his post which I find confusing. My take on how nature poetry is immoral is not a dismissal of all nature poetry or the natural world. It is more a very small complaint about a specific sort of nature poetry that isolates a certain plant or animal for heroic purposes w/o addressing the history of these plants and animals and their relations with various sorts of humans and/or how these plants and animals are seriously at risk. (I believe even at the reading I said the sort of nature poetry that gets written in my department; someone I know is famous for having edited a book of nature poetry about Hawai'i which had no Hawaiians in it and few people who even grew up in Hawai'i--it is full of what gets called 747 poems there.) More specifically, I remember saying that nature poetry is immoral because it shows the bird but not the bulldozer that is threatening the bird's habitat. Not that radical a position. Not based on disgust of nature but rather on respect for it. I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. And then I read a poem where I was attempting to think about nature poetry and how it might represent the interconnected system of the natural world rather than the individual plant as divorced from its habitat. It pays homage to much of the nature poetry of Hawai'i, especially the creation chant of the Kumulipo which is distinctive for how it presents the process of creation as connection: 285. Born was the Wood borer, a parent Out came its child a flying thing, and flew Born was the Caterpillar, the parent Out came its child a Moth, and flew Born was the Ant, the parent 290. Out came its child a Dragonfly, and flew Born was the Grub, the parent Out came its child the Grasshopper, and flew Born was the Pinworm, the parent Out came its child a Fly, and flew 295. Born was the egg [?], the parent Out came its child a bird, and flew Born was the Snipe, the parent Out came its child a Plover, The Beckwith translation of the Kumulipo is on the web: http://www.sacred-texts.com/pac/ku/ The poem I then read was called "Nature Poetry." One section of this poem in the web at Ampersand: http://www.mprsnd.net/poetry/js003.htm. Another section of was published in Pom Pom and is available via pdf at http://www.pompompress.com/PomPom_Issue1.pdf. The poem has six sections to it. It probably doesn't live up to my hopes for nature poetry but was written with respect for the genre and a belief in its possibilities. Thank you very much for your time. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:04:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Re: Email address for Erica Hunt? In-Reply-To: <2696220024310174752250@thevortex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the address I have is mailto:ehunt@igc.org but I'm not sure whether it's still active. best Tenney Nathanson mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Boston Poetry > Marathon > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:48 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Email address for Erica Hunt? > > > Hello, all. > > Does anyone out there have an email address for Erica Hunt? > Many thanks for any help you can provide-- > > Donna de la Perriere > > > _____________________________________________ > Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! > http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:48:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: boundary 2 / poetry and poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just out in boundary 2 spring 2002 volume 29 number 1 Swedish Poetry and Poetics: A Gathering=20 Gunnar Bj=F6rling: Poetics and Poetry with an introduction and translations= by Fredrik Hertzberg Jesper Svenbro: In Translation by John Matthias and Lars-H=E5kan Svensson John Matthias, "The Co-Translator's Dilemma" (poem) Five Poets of the Nineties: An Introduction ed. and tr. and with an extended introductory essay, by Anders Lundberg &= Jesper Olson, featuring Ann J=E4derlund, Jorgen Gassilewski, Helena= Eriksson, Lars Mikael Raattamaa, J=F6rgen Gassilewski. ** Note also the poetry cluster in 28.2, Summer 2001: Charles Bernstein, =93A Conversation with Geoffrey O'Brien=94 Rob Wilson, Tracking Un/American Poetics in Asia/Pacific Experimental= Writing: Pamela Lu and Catalina Cariaga=20 Email Dialogue/Interview with Pamela Lu and Catalina Cariaga Kathryne Lindberg, Depejorating "Uplift" and Re-centering Race Poetry:= Lorenzo Thomas's Extraordinary Measures Keith Tuma, Way Out in the Center: John Matthias=20 Michael Davidson, X Marks the Spot: Laura Moriarty's Nude Memoir and Jena= Osman's The Character Daniel T O'Hara, The Pen Shop of Thomas Kinsella=20 =20 =20 boundary 2 is available on line for those who have an affiliations with= libraries that subscribe to Project Muse. It is published by Duke= University Press. Editor: Paul Bove. Still available: 99 Poets/1999: An International Poetics Symposium, ed. Charles Bernstein; a= special issue of boundary 2.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:39:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Response to Matt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/13/02 1:47:18 AM, d_hess@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << =E2=80=9CNon-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of=20 distinguishing textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal re-telling of human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of events, a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent (or at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of the certainty of semantic meaning. An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic.=E2=80=9D >> I promised myself I would leave this sort of thing alone, but . . . . Why=20 does this annoy me? Because it ignores the history of innovative writing. =20 So Ginsberg was not innovative? Burroughs was not innovative? Stein was=20 innovative but Eliot and Pound were not? Come on! This hijacking of the=20 terms "innovative" and "avant-garde" and "experimental" is more a political=20 gesture than an aesthetic one. Even a cursory understanding of the history=20 suggests how narrow minded the above definition is. Isn't it obvious that=20 such restrictive ideas inhibit innovation? Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:47:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: Response to Matt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit it's entirely a politcical, &, for that matter, incredibly non-innovative, gesture...c'mon dave, tell us something we haven't already heard... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Response to Matt In a message dated 4/13/02 1:47:18 AM, d_hess@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << â^À^ÜNon-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of distinguishing textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal re-telling of human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of events, a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent (or at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of the certainty of semantic meaning. An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic.â^À^Ý >> I promised myself I would leave this sort of thing alone, but . . . . Why does this annoy me? Because it ignores the history of innovative writing. So Ginsberg was not innovative? Burroughs was not innovative? Stein was innovative but Eliot and Pound were not? Come on! This hijacking of the terms "innovative" and "avant-garde" and "experimental" is more a political gesture than an aesthetic one. Even a cursory understanding of the history suggests how narrow minded the above definition is. Isn't it obvious that such restrictive ideas inhibit innovation? Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:57:55 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Spahr-ing (to David hess) Comments: To: Poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David Hess-- > > Did Spahr really say "Nature poetry is immoral?" > I have a *little* difficulty believing that, or perhaps > the context of that statement qualifies it a little so it's less dogmatic.... > > But if we take that quote on face value (assuming it is a quote), > how then does she defy, and define, "nature poetry?" > What if someone were to demonstrate that some of the work > she champions is nature poetry (not just, say, Jarnot--- > I mean of course a "Spiderwasp" is TOTALLY artificial)? > > Or, better, consider the word "immoral." > Doesn't the word "immoral" itself (as opposed to say ethics) > imply nature (if not necessarily universal laws-- > as the "innocence" of the nature mode implies "irony") > [well, that's Laura Riding's 1928 idea]? > > Or is Spahr just out to be provocative in a way that may slightly > "revise" (if not necessarily "update") the LP mode of provocation, > by appealing to "morals" (as they generally didn't or don't)? > Or does it seem too "same old, same old" > An attempt to redraw lines, and in and outs, in a reductive binary > that excludes folks like you and I, who can only be "on the map" > as a parody, not so far as the "neutrality of Switzerland" or even as > "the excluded middle" or "the author who cannot be a character? > (and what is trascendence but the torture in the tickle...of the machine) > Well, I'd be curious to see the context of that "nature poetry is > immoral" quote. I don't think it NECESSARILY MEANS > a fear of, or distrust of, nature itself. So I could defend it on > those grounds, but I do distrust the exclusionary implications, > out of context at least > > -- > funny how one era's machines become the next era nature.. > > my favorite machines are bikes and swingsets and pianos > which may mean i'm "privilegeing the child" (also immoral)-- > but only to the extent that adulthood means nothing more > than keeping up with the fashions, the remakes of > "make it new" oldies > if progress is a verb (and thus a command) > and produce is a noun (and thus an activity) > > whose decay is nourishment(?) > > david hess wrote: > > > Hence, again, the sequence ^ÓNature is immoral. It doesn^Òt even > > exist, which is the greatest immorality of all. Don^Òt let it inspire you^Ô -- > > a detournement of Juliana Spahr^Òs comment ^ÓNature poetry is immoral^Ô -- > > quoted in the most recent Poetry Project Newsletter. Like Jesse Helms > > finding a Mapplethorpe photo disgusting because he finds the subject matter > > disgusting, I think Spahr^Òs dismissal of Nature poetry ? which is not to say > > I love (all) Nature poetry ? implies an easy dismissal of the natural world > > (perhaps for its overwhelming amorality). > > I^Òm not citing Glazier and Spahr to condemn them. Glazier knows a lot more > > about digital poetry and the Web, its history and possibilities, than I do. > > It^Òs this discourse and the political claims that he and you and others > > make, that I take offense to. If this discourse did not exist, I probably > > wouldn^Òt be opening my mouth. One could simply judge a poem or artwork ? > > digital, print-based or whatever ? on its aesthetic and intellectual merits > > (which is not exactly what I^Òm advocating). But in order to justify or sell > > the poetry and get into those institutional arenas that you mention, you > > need the discourse ? perhaps not you in particular, but others who seem > > invested in a form of academic politics that parades as revolutionary > > (because it is supposedly technically innovative). You need "strategically > > useful theoretical gestures^Ô to displace those who support ^Óconfessional, > > "I"-centered modes of discourse^Ô in the current ^Ópoetic economy.^Ô And to > > what end? What does this academic ^Óoppositionality^Ô have to do with > > ^Óovercom[ing] the exploitations and objectifications which arise from > > capitalist modes of production?^Ô I^Òm afraid not much. You make the leap from > > fighting the confessionalist horde to fighting capitalism and waging class > > struggle in a record .0003 seconds. I would agree that ^Óde-centered writing^Ô > > ? in the aftermath of the 60s and the failure of a united counterculture -- > > was once radical, and perhaps still is despite the reification of the > > discourse, if only because it alerts the reader to the objectification and > > reification that capitalism injects into all areas of life and experience. > > It puts it right in your face without the mediation of an ^ÓI.^Ô But it did > > not, and could not, change any ^Ñsocial conditions.^Ò Nor did it present any > > possible solutions to alienation, reification, etc. These are claims your > > post seems to be making. > > If I want a return to anything it^Òs to the moment before poetry split into > > ^Ñconfessionalist^Ò and ^Ñmaterialist^Ò modes. Before the split between > > intellect and emotion, thinking and feeling, experience and language. The > > binary division you make between ^Ñproductive^Ò materiality and > > ^Ñcounter-productive^Ò emotion or sincerity is not mine. The poets I cite at > > one point ? Rimbaud, Blake, Vallejo, Rukeyser, Cesaire, Artaud ? are > > examples of a wide tradition of revolutionary poetry that treats, to use a > > Glazierian term, the ^ÓI,^Ô authority, expression and emotion as the fluid > > elements they are, above mere egoism or confession, in a ^Ñpractice^Ò that is > > irreducible to any discourse or catty battle between overfed pedagogical > > models. Radicality has been codified into non-normativity, alternative > > textuality and a reified institutional discourse all of which willfully > > ^Óreduce[] the ^Ñauthoring^Ò subject to a machine, an alienated, non-expressive > > object of ideology^Ô ? your words, but they sound ironized to me. I don^Òt see > > any radical political value in this reduction of possibility. Nor do I see > > any revolutionary political agency in the mocking of sincerity, a move which > > almost certainly guarantees marginality, institutional or otherwise (but who > > knows, insincerity loves capitalism and capitalism cares for nothing more > > than the next quarter^Òs earnings ? it doesn^Òt care for ^Ñsubjects^Ò, in bulk > > or in the singular). If you did not respond to my post, Matt, with some > > degree of sincerity, obviously we wouldn^Òt be having this discussion. > > De-centered or materialist modes haven^Òt resulted in the jettisoning of the > > ego or self because they still operate in a competitive literary economy > > which is becoming commodified as any other. Whether or not a poet uses the > > ^ÓI,^Ô their subjectivity or ^Ñhabitus^Ò will still be present. A poet can use > > the ^ÓI^Ô not to refer to him or herself or can use means other than the ^ÓI^Ô > > to refer to a self, but try all you might to become a faceless discourse > > machine (institutional martyr) ? the dream of every little boy and girl on > > this Earth -- and the truth will eventually out. I don^Òt think capitalism > > created the ^ÓI,^Ô emotions, selves, the ego or the need to be sincere. > > Ashbery would seem to be the best example of someone clearly embraced by the > > mainstream but who gets rid of the ^ÓI^Ô as a locus of meaning and expression; > > sort of gets rid of the ego and doesn^Òt get rid of the self; is innovative > > at times and productive in a machine-like way; writes from his oceanic well > > of fancy more than from direct experience; foregrounds the materiality of > > the medium but not all the goddamn time; flattens emotion and tone (to a > > register of tender melancholia and heady humor) and poses no threat at all > > to the cultural status quo in the poetic economy or abroad. Like most > > de-centered writing IT^ÒS HARMLESSLY QUIESCENT ? a noise that doesn^Òt make > > much noise. Then again, I^Òd rather read Ashbery more than 95 percent of > > what^Òs out there just because he writes great, if lullaby-like, poetry, you > > know. It strives for the infinite, even if it^Òs just in dreams. It may not > > ^Ófight for heaven^Ô(Lorca^Òs phrase) but I^Òm cool with it every other > > Thursday, ten to eleven p.m. Central Standard Time. > > I agree with you that some of the lines in ^ÓPoetry as Social Practice^Ô > > punch low, so to speak, and are not good for much than a laugh, but other > > arguments are harder to dismiss. Yes, ^Óby arranging each of [my] ^Ñslogans^Ò > > in a context which deems them ridiculous, [I] end up privileging the exact > > opposite of whatever they say.^Ô You are right; I think they are ridiculous. > > I don^Òt, however, agree that ^Óby ironizing a statement like ^ÑDon't be > > crazy,^Ò [I] end up advocating a statement like ^ÑBe crazy.^Ò^Ô What I^Òm > > advocating is the questioning of what a discourse of non-normativity > > implies, promotes and rejects. What it rejects, as you^Òve done well to point > > out, is a relevance of emotion (the sincere kind) and feeling. Emotions are > > considered irrational, but emotions never lie (thus the line ^ÓMock sincerity > > sincerely^Ô). Reason and language enable one to lie. So it looks like I^Òm > > advocating irrationality as if going mad didn^Òt have its own reasons and > > causes. I don^Òt think I^Òm advocating a poetics of anything (yet -- is that > > not being ideological enough?), much less 'experience' but if I had to take > > side I'd come on the side of experience and not the decentered, materialist > > poetics tractor. I think for those who don^Òt have much going on in their > > lives, a poetics of anti-experience is a sweet alternative to, and > > distillation of, its hectic monotony. > > > > (Okay, I give up, I am urging that people go crazy!!! Like at raves where > > kids and maybe some adults get together and dance to all kinds of techno > > music, turning the machine against itself, experiencing the magic of being > > alive for a few hours before returning to further drudgery ? crazy like > > that, good crazy!!!) > > > > Now I am going to do what Kafka did the day WWI broke out: go swimming. > > > > More later, > > Dave > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:41:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david hess Subject: To More Than One Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed (Doing it this way since I only get two posts a day....) To Jerrold: A bit confused by your post (which is directed toward me) since you seem to be responding to William Austin^Òs assertion that the rigid distinction Glazier makes between innovative and non-innovative is political and not aesthetic. My sense is that it^Òs academically political while the notion of ^Ómaterialist^Ô ^Ö opaque, indeterminate, obdurate text, language as system ^Ö is entirely aesthetic. Weird how those who are supposed to be workers of language have such trouble communicating. To Michael: So, Tralfamadorean is good? If I ever start a soccer team I will call ourselves the Tralfamadoreans. To Vernon: Is Cuspidor also good? To Juliana: Thank you, thank you Juliana for clearing that up. Obviously, I had no knowledge of the context in which that statement was made. In my ^ÓResponse to Matt^Ô I was going to say something like ^ÓNo, I don^Òt think you are like Jesse Helms^Ô but I assumed that by saying I did not want to condemn you or Mr. Glazier I was not making such a strict association. You say you are not sure what it is I want ^Ö perhaps some kind of de-decentered poetry, or ^Ócentered^Ô poetry as you say. I thought I was explicit in the Matt response about my desire for a poetry which put an end to this opposition of thought and feeling which has taken hold in the wake of the split into ^Óconfessionalist^Ô (emotional) and ^Ómaterialist^Ô (intellectual) modes. I listed a few poets that I thought were revolutionary in what they were ^Ósaying^Ô as well as what they were doing with language and form. To Richard: I appreciate the reading, Richard, and don^Òt mind being lectured to if there^Òs something to be learned. I agree that formal experimentation is an important part of making art and it looks the advances that are going to be made now will be in the digital realm. Nothing wrong with that. My big beef is with these revolutionary claims being made for poetry that is focused on technical experimentation and not much else. The lyrics make the song as much as the instrumentation. To Chris: I wonder what it^Òs like to be one of your students. To Matt: Please come back and tell us your thoughts. To others: Some further discussion on what ^Ómaterialist critique,^Ô ^Ómaterial expression,^Ô etc. means would be nice. Barrett Watten, Patrick Durgin, Ron Silliman, Kasey Mohammad ^Ö please step up. Thanks, Dave P.S.: if anyone still thinks I^Òm Matt Garite please back-channel me and I will prove it, if it means that much to you. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:31:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: To More Than One MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ah, I see now that this was a quote. missed the quotation marks around what Austin was responding to. at any rate, the attempt to pigeonhole what, exactly, constitutes an innovative aesthetic, is, to my mind (& as you suggest) academically political (it does little except to make a dissertation more interesting (or not)), &, for the most part, smacks of an aesthetic conservatism that misses the point entirely. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david hess" To: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 4:41 PM Subject: To More Than One > (Doing it this way since I only get two posts a day....) > > > > To Jerrold: A bit confused by your post (which is directed toward me) since > you seem to be responding to William Austin's assertion that the rigid > distinction Glazier makes between innovative and non-innovative is political > and not aesthetic. My sense is that it's academically political while the > notion of "materialist" - opaque, indeterminate, obdurate text, language as > system - is entirely aesthetic. Weird how those who are supposed to be > workers of language have such trouble communicating. > > To Michael: So, Tralfamadorean is good? If I ever start a soccer team I will > call ourselves the Tralfamadoreans. > > To Vernon: Is Cuspidor also good? > > To Juliana: Thank you, thank you Juliana for clearing that up. Obviously, I > had no knowledge of the context in which that statement was made. In my > "Response to Matt" I was going to say something like "No, I don't think you > are like Jesse Helms" but I assumed that by saying I did not want to condemn > you or Mr. Glazier I was not making such a strict association. You say you > are not sure what it is I want - perhaps some kind of de-decentered poetry, > or "centered" poetry as you say. I thought I was explicit in the Matt > response about my desire for a poetry which put an end to this opposition of > thought and feeling which has taken hold in the wake of the split into > "confessionalist" (emotional) and "materialist" (intellectual) modes. I > listed a few poets that I thought were revolutionary in what they were > "saying" as well as what they were doing with language and form. > > To Richard: I appreciate the reading, Richard, and don't mind being lectured > to if there's something to be learned. I agree that formal experimentation > is an important part of making art and it looks the advances that are going > to be made now will be in the digital realm. Nothing wrong with that. My big > beef is with these revolutionary claims being made for poetry that is > focused on technical experimentation and not much else. The lyrics make the > song as much as the instrumentation. > > To Chris: I wonder what it's like to be one of your students. > > To Matt: Please come back and tell us your thoughts. > > To others: Some further discussion on what "materialist critique," "material > expression," etc. means would be nice. Barrett Watten, Patrick Durgin, Ron > Silliman, Kasey Mohammad - please step up. > > Thanks, > Dave > > P.S.: if anyone still thinks I'm Matt Garite please back-channel me and I > will prove it, if it means that much to you. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:10:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Fwd: por favor...? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:02:06 -0500 From: Maria Damon To: aln10@psu.edu Subject: por favor...? hi aldon, it's finally happened... POETIX is rejecting my posts: would you mind forwarding this to the list? thanks in advance! bests, md ******* Upcoming Events @ The Brecht Forum 122 West 27th St. 10th Fl. NYC (Betw. 6th & 7th Aves.) 1,9,N,R to 28th St. F to 23rd St., PATH to 23rd St, C/E to 23rd St. 212.242.4201 info@brechtforum. www.brechtforum.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Friday, April 19 7:30 pm JOURNAL RELEASE PARTY Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics 10th Issue Celebration (Amiri Baraka, Kamau Brathwaite, Jeff Derksen, May Joseph, Mark Nowak, Juliana Spahr, Rodrigo Toscano & Cecilia Vicuna) "Welcome to a Writers' Manual on how to detonate the Master-Axis of Big-Brother Narratives." -Poetry Project Newsletter Join in celebrating the publication of the 10th issue of the Minneapolis-based journal Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics. Amiri Baraka, Kamau Brathwaite, Cecilia Vicuna, May Joseph, Rodrigo Toscano, Juliana Spahr, and Jeff Derksen--all contributors to recent issues of Xcp--will join editor Mark Nowak in reading from their works. A complete "Table of Contents" for each issue of Xcp, plus sample writings and much more, are available at . Sliding Scale: $6/$8/$10 ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________ Saturday, April 20 10:00 am - Noon WORKSHOP Poetry as (Local) History (Alan Gilbert & Mark Nowak) This workshop will explore the interstices between writing poetry and writing (local) history. Workshop leaders Mark Nowak and Alan Gilbert will discuss the writings of several poets whose work is grounded in an exploration of history (local, regional, etc.). In addition to a bibliography of "Poetry as (Local) History" for further reading and research, each participant will receive a copy of Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics that includes writings on the workshop theme by poet Fred Wah, anthropologist Lila Abu-Lughod, Roger Sanjek's fieldwork in Queens, reviews of Paul Metcalf's Collected Works, and more. The workshop will conclude with a discussion of participants current (or future) projects in this area and various poetic approaches that might be employed in their writing of (local) history as poetry. Alan Gilbert's writings on poetry, art, and politics have appeared in a number of publications, including Afterimage, Boston Review, and Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics. Recent poems have appeared in The Baffler and First Intensity. Mark Nowak, author of Revenants, is editor of Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics and co-editor (with Diane Glancy) of Visit Teepee Town: Native Writings After the Detours. Sliding Scale: $6/$8/$10 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tell Her -- the page I never wrote! Tell Her, I only said -- the Syntax -- And left the Verb and the Pronoun -- out! --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:15:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: "a volume of absolutely comparable worth" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii David Hess: I find your list of acceptable revolutionaries, "Rimbaud, Blake, Vallejo, Rukeyser, Cesaire, Artaud", to be less than helpful, in various ways, if I may. For one, it does not differ greatly (Rimbaud, Artaud) from the early canon that "materialist" poetics has been putting forward. So, going back to what is virtually the same starting point will only, in the long run, come full circle and eventually grow into a "materialist" poetics rediviva. Second, with the exception of Rukyser (a "Which One of These Does Not Belong" peculiar and seemingly personal choice) or the British Blake, it is decidedly foreign language, Europhile, and, in lacking even the beginnings of an American genealogy, it displaces revolutionary contexts that were very likely specific to their points of gneration onto an American scene that needs a somewhat more indigenous topography to take root. (It is also anachronistic in its arbitrary leap-frogging back and forth across centuries, David.) Thirdly, upon closer inspection, I'm not sure that brief list holds up to your second criterion, of a prelapsarian unity of feeling and thought: Artaud, who simply admitted he couldn't ~think~ anymore, and that his problem was harrowing inner nullity, was, to my mind, much more wiped out and disabled as far as anything like intellect went, and his degenerative illness was what we loosely refer to as ~"emotional~ illness," so he kind of misses feeling/thought on both counts, since all his feelings were phantasmagoria and his paranoia or whatever the specific -phrenia of his diagnosis no better equipped to write feelings than, say, a schizoid. I can understand your hunger to ~start all over~ and the more-or-less "anti-Language"/anti-"materialist" poetics your various jeremiads have been dreaming of, from the standpoint of its having become too easy, too widespread, too "dumbed down, "pseudo-confessionalist" in its choosing its materiality from the same sources as Confessionalism: the accidentals of one's life, etc. I think, though, that a call for something new has to base itself, at some point, David, on something that ~is~ new, and what your essays are missing is an even provisional indicator of where within American poetry something resembling your manifesto can already be seen, if only embryonically. There's an interesting list that's been passed over for a long time, as an alternative staring point: the list of the ~refuse'es~ from the ~In The American Tree~ anthology. (I regard ~In The American Tree~ as the turning point where "materialist" poetries became organized as such as a sort of full-scale phalanx, and went from pockets of scattered idiosyncracy to the national, self-proclaimed party system it has become.) Silliman's 1st edition introduction reads: "A volume of absolutely comparable worth could be constructed from the writing of Tom Ahern, Robert Gluck, Bruce Boone, Beverly Dahlen, Rosemarie Waldrop, Karl Young, Alice Notely, (sic) Dick Higgins, Curtis Faville, Laura Moriarty, Barbara Einzig, Jim Rosenberg, Laura Chester, Lydia Davis, Johanna Drucker, Kathleen Fraser, Gloria Frym, Peter Ganick, Merrill Gilfillan, Ed Friedman, Gerald Burns, Gerritt Lansing, Chris Mason, Doug Messerli, John Godfrey, Michael Amnasan, Loris Essary, Keith Waldrop, Geoff Young, Marshall Reese, Craig Watson, Marina LaPalma, Steve Roberts, Bernard Welt, Gil Ott, Ted Pearson, Jerry Estrin, Mark Lecard, Kirby Malong, Norman Fischer, John Yau, John Taggart, Gail Sher, Joseph Simas, Cris Cheek, Joan Rettalack, Rafael Lorenzo, David Gitlin, Jed Rasula, Keith Shein, Charles Stein, Leslie Scalapino, Michael Lally, Dennis Cooper, Dvid Benedetti, Bill Mohr, Lelan Hickman, Charles Amirkhanian, Steve Katz, Doug Lang, Bill Corbett, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Maureen Owen, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Aaron Shurin, David Levi-Strauss, Sandra Meyer, DeLys Mullis, Carole Korzeniowsky, Frances Jaffer, Donald Byrd, Charles North, Jim Brodey, Madeleine Burnside, Barbara Barg, Lorenzo Thomas, Tim Dlugos, Steven Hamilton, Gary Lenhart, and others." (It also defines further criteria for exclusion, "For reasons of ... clarity," as "poets working in other nations", "those whose primary medium is something other than poetry", or "whose mature style and public identity was largely formed prior to this moment in writing". I find the second as especially promising, especially now that digital frontiers do allow a re-consideration and fresh attention to be given to "multi-media" poets.) I've tried before to call attention to this list of refuse'es and to second-guess what it may conceal: http://home.jps.net/~nada/shurin.htm . In most cases, I think, those poets would not have advanced as well the cause of "paratactic"/asyntactical poetry, as many of them continued to write might closer to "normative discourse." Some of the Refuse'es were later folded under the aegis of "materialist"/Language poetry in subsequent round-ups, or have drifted there over time, perhaps precisely for want of the lost alternative that that "volume of absolutely comparable worth" took down with it. Even a cursory glance at its names, though, brings up examples that, in fact, do seem to synthesize feeling and thought in the way you might envision, such as, out of the names I recognize, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, all of whose books are perfect masterpieces (the opening of ~Sphericity~: "I did not know beforehand what would count for me as a new color. Its beauty is an analysis / of things I believe in or experience, but seems to alter events very little. The significance of a bird / flying out of grapes in a store reates to the beauty of the color of the translucency of grapes"), Gerritt Lansing, where alchemical hermeticism met gay male poetry in a seemingly impossible fusion or combustion, Dennis Cooper's unique hybrid of political poetry and idealized self in his J.F.K.-as-a-boy poems, Michael Amnasan's chilling frankness about being ~the~ working class poet, the unsung epic unruliness of Blau DuPlessis' indefatigable hodgepodge, etc. A great deal could be gained, I believe, ---all my card-catalog-scavenging to find those I could has been rewarding--- by returning to that fork in the road and seeing where the history "of winners" that was written over so many names I've simply never seen elsewhere diverged from a forgotten possible world. As far as "materiality,"--- there's been continuous slippage in that term, and just plain ignorance as to meaning. A quasi-Marxist critique such as the polemics that accompanied "materialist" poetics ~had to~ have meant, at root, not eclipsing focus on the ~material~ itself, i.e. language, but upon the material ~conditions~ that surround its production. At some point, paratactical writing seemed like a believable hook on which to hang this hat of materiality. It did, after all, jolt with a startled re-encounter with the similar ~materiality~ of ~the book,~ in, the first few dozen times or some, opening an innocuous-looking front cover to find a total contradiction of all expectations within, hence forcing a re-examination of such expectations. The difficulty, today, for a reasonably well-read poet is that, by dint of sheer number, it has been ~normalized.~ --- Difficulty in the sense that the original claims about materiality weather poorly, as the decades since have significantly altered the material conditions of the poet-producers but rarely effected a similary telling acknowledgement of that whole new horizon of materialist realities within the imitation-of-an-imitation poetry: MFAs, a decline in the cost of publishing, criticism about said materiality, etc (to say nothing of the Internet and the yet unexplored ways in which distribution of print poetry through Web changes its "materiality" ---immaterializing it?). There are advantages, too, in its normalization: the work itself is less difficult. It is easier, critically, to see where a thread of a story or themes do show through. It's possible to discuss whole books of paratactic writing entirely for their "content" (semantics) now, without re-hashing the arguments in favor of and their apologetics. In time, one becomes re-trained or re-conditioned to read, when it's there, entirely lucid continuities. And, likewise, not to waste too much time getting caught up in "secondary" or tertiary writing, ... although the political climate of a very small poetry world continue to make it impossible to hold up specific cases as "poor" versions of "materialist" poetics. At any rate, I do think that distinction important to put out at the get-go: materiality as, originally, the materiality of the poet-worker's situation, the historical materialism of publication, the materiality of the medium (language) as subject to its contemporary, time-bound jargons and slangs, etc. What materiality ~should have~ been meaning all along is: who wrote it, what (political) groups benefit from the power relations that it sets in motion, ... The poetics or theory has gotten progressively muddled as its lost that key element of its own argument. Re-embracing the dogma in its more complete form also allows its expansion across poetries that chance and power struggles shut out. You mention Ashbery,--- but I'm continually intrigued by how much of materialist poetics fits O'Hara perfectly: the historical materialist acuteness of the present moment notated in its chronometric exactitude, poetry as the product not of the lone individualist (which your Blake and Rimbaud somewhat harken back to, David) but the project of an entire community of interrelated manufacturers, etc. (I never realized until just now when the radio announcer said it, that Olivier Messiaen's ~Quartet for the End of Time~ was written during and given its first premier in a German prisoner of war camp.) It's important to keep in mind that the poetry is separable from the poetics, and that the same body of "materialist" work can be re-narrativized/theorized under different rubrics, ... and, vice-versa, that criteria of materialist dicta are met by work not typically identified with that banner. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:34:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: the Risk of Loss In-Reply-To: <003401c1e40c$8d37cf30$aa0d0e44@vaio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I am coming into this at a late point but I feel Glazier is coming from the point of innovation from the delivery system associated with literature and not the clime of the innovation. This political aspect could be applied to his notion of the multiple I, but look for a post months ago by Jeffrey Jullich on that. But Glazier's innovation comes from behind the text, not the text itself. As this message finds its meaning on this list, its coded and delivered amongst texts and code strings that allow for instantiations around the readership of this list. This is the innovations of digital poetries, as the scroll was an innovation to the oral tradition, as Gutenberg was to same said scrolls, as the internet is to the book format of hypertexts and such texts will become non-innovative when the linearity of reading becomes moot. Glazier is onto something here and a closer reading of _DP_ will show this true. His argument doesn't go beyond this for the innovative. Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Duration Press Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 7:32 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: To More Than One ah, I see now that this was a quote. missed the quotation marks around what Austin was responding to. at any rate, the attempt to pigeonhole what, exactly, constitutes an innovative aesthetic, is, to my mind (& as you suggest) academically political (it does little except to make a dissertation more interesting (or not)), &, for the most part, smacks of an aesthetic conservatism that misses the point entirely. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david hess" To: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 4:41 PM Subject: To More Than One > (Doing it this way since I only get two posts a day....) > > > > To Jerrold: A bit confused by your post (which is directed toward me) since > you seem to be responding to William Austin's assertion that the rigid > distinction Glazier makes between innovative and non-innovative is political > and not aesthetic. My sense is that it's academically political while the > notion of "materialist" - opaque, indeterminate, obdurate text, language as > system - is entirely aesthetic. Weird how those who are supposed to be > workers of language have such trouble communicating. > > To Michael: So, Tralfamadorean is good? If I ever start a soccer team I will > call ourselves the Tralfamadoreans. > > To Vernon: Is Cuspidor also good? > > To Juliana: Thank you, thank you Juliana for clearing that up. Obviously, I > had no knowledge of the context in which that statement was made. In my > "Response to Matt" I was going to say something like "No, I don't think you > are like Jesse Helms" but I assumed that by saying I did not want to condemn > you or Mr. Glazier I was not making such a strict association. You say you > are not sure what it is I want - perhaps some kind of de-decentered poetry, > or "centered" poetry as you say. I thought I was explicit in the Matt > response about my desire for a poetry which put an end to this opposition of > thought and feeling which has taken hold in the wake of the split into > "confessionalist" (emotional) and "materialist" (intellectual) modes. I > listed a few poets that I thought were revolutionary in what they were > "saying" as well as what they were doing with language and form. > > To Richard: I appreciate the reading, Richard, and don't mind being lectured > to if there's something to be learned. I agree that formal experimentation > is an important part of making art and it looks the advances that are going > to be made now will be in the digital realm. Nothing wrong with that. My big > beef is with these revolutionary claims being made for poetry that is > focused on technical experimentation and not much else. The lyrics make the > song as much as the instrumentation. > > To Chris: I wonder what it's like to be one of your students. > > To Matt: Please come back and tell us your thoughts. > > To others: Some further discussion on what "materialist critique," "material > expression," etc. means would be nice. Barrett Watten, Patrick Durgin, Ron > Silliman, Kasey Mohammad - please step up. > > Thanks, > Dave > > P.S.: if anyone still thinks I'm Matt Garite please back-channel me and I > will prove it, if it means that much to you. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:18:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david hess Subject: Hello Jeffrey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed (I'm sorry if people are getting screwed-up text formatting... anyone know what's causing it?) Dear Jeffrey, The list of poets I offered as examples whose work merges thinking and feeling was not meant to be exhaustive at all. I chose those poets because they were all PISSED OFF in some way or another -- and they did not exclude such emotions from their art -- and were nonetheless doing innovative work. At a couple different places in his book Glazier says that innovative poetry excludes an "I" which is marked by animosity. I just find that totally ridiculous. So that's why I wrote this in "Poetry as Social Practice": "Love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, Cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud is too full of anger to be innovative." Again, emotion need not be divorced from innovation, experimentation, engagement with the medium. (Yes, it feels like were are in kindegarten doesn't it). That's all I'm saying there -- not proposing a totally alternative tradition on which to base a totally new poetics. Rimbaud and Artaud have never been, to my knowledge, chosen as precedents to the current materialist tradition. It's been Stein, Zukofsky, Cage and others. I gotta be honest and say I read through your post once and have no desire to read it again. Do you realize that you have a tendency to talk at people, at least in your writing? For the most part you totally lose me after those first few paragraphs. Relax and take a deep breath, Dave "Nothing but a fine Nerve Meter" - Artaud _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:33:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Hello Jeffrey In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi David, I know I'm not the Jeffrey you are speaking of, but the I in Glazier is very interesting point to bring out in poetry. It's a true enough argument and I too had difficult accepting it at first. it has an all inclusiveness that seems yucky at first, but it is quite blithe in spirit. From what I understand, his goal is the same as asking what makes up the river? The I is made up of several selves who have a common background as does yours so we can both be beneficiary of the I intended message taking that I to be you as me as she. Its very simple yet complex when taking a global community and not to solitary poet. There is a plurality of identity which at once one cannot argue against. This is quite a radical notion, as Glazier points out "such a perspective can be socially beneficial in a heterogeneous society as it obviates the need for one I to be more valid than others. a concept disruptive of social equality" (DP 50) Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of david hess Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:19 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Hello Jeffrey (I'm sorry if people are getting screwed-up text formatting... anyone know what's causing it?) Dear Jeffrey, The list of poets I offered as examples whose work merges thinking and feeling was not meant to be exhaustive at all. I chose those poets because they were all PISSED OFF in some way or another -- and they did not exclude such emotions from their art -- and were nonetheless doing innovative work. At a couple different places in his book Glazier says that innovative poetry excludes an "I" which is marked by animosity. I just find that totally ridiculous. So that's why I wrote this in "Poetry as Social Practice": "Love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, Cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud is too full of anger to be innovative." Again, emotion need not be divorced from innovation, experimentation, engagement with the medium. (Yes, it feels like were are in kindegarten doesn't it). That's all I'm saying there -- not proposing a totally alternative tradition on which to base a totally new poetics. Rimbaud and Artaud have never been, to my knowledge, chosen as precedents to the current materialist tradition. It's been Stein, Zukofsky, Cage and others. I gotta be honest and say I read through your post once and have no desire to read it again. Do you realize that you have a tendency to talk at people, at least in your writing? For the most part you totally lose me after those first few paragraphs. Relax and take a deep breath, Dave "Nothing but a fine Nerve Meter" - Artaud _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:14:13 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Tony Folari MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Groupus Listus. I sent on a poem by Tony Folari but also I said of Tony = that he was obsessed or possessed: I meant in fact that he was = "extremely keen on" such things as lipograms and so on and things = Oulipian. I also mentioned the suicide of his brother: I had wrongly = assumed that Tony's obsession was connected somehow to his brother's = death but I was in error. Tony informs me he has wide interests and his = brother's death was due to things unrelated to his own "obsession" (for = which read "strong interest and concentration on" numbers, puzzles and = so on) So I must apologise for this and to his mother who was upset. If there's else of interest from Tony I'll pass it on for all you = Oulipian freaks (whoops!!) But seriously, although Tony's exercises and = poems are not always "my cup of tea" he has some interesting ideas and = was one (as well as Scott Hamilton) who apprised me of Perec etal. And = he has wide interests including humour and so forth. Regards, Richard. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:09:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: New Book by Chris Hamilton-Emery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Chris asked me to post the following to the list. I love his work. Susan From: Chris Hamilton-Emery Subject: Flagrant self promotion DR. MEPHISTO Chris Emery Arc Publications 1-900072-67-X 216 x 140mm 88pp $12.95 + p&p "With poems in this collection Chris Emery establishes himself as a developmental writer of growing stature: not only is his own voice increasingly evident and developing rapidly, but the technical development of possibilities in his language is also a palpable achievement. Most importantly, these developments are by no means the arid movements of intellect alone: underpinning them is a linguistic awareness which is by turns moving, physical and fun." Richard Caddel Order direct from: Arc Publications Nanholme Mill Shaw Wood Road Todmorden OL14 6DA United Kingdom Phone: +44 (0)1706 812338 Fax: +44 (0)706 818948 Email: info@arcpublications.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:06:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: To More Than One MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cuspidor isn't bad. It was just word play. I was feeling impish. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david hess" To: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 1:41 PM Subject: To More Than One > (Doing it this way since I only get two posts a day....) > > > > To Jerrold: A bit confused by your post (which is directed toward me) since > you seem to be responding to William Austin's assertion that the rigid > distinction Glazier makes between innovative and non-innovative is political > and not aesthetic. My sense is that it's academically political while the > notion of "materialist" - opaque, indeterminate, obdurate text, language as > system - is entirely aesthetic. Weird how those who are supposed to be > workers of language have such trouble communicating. > > To Michael: So, Tralfamadorean is good? If I ever start a soccer team I will > call ourselves the Tralfamadoreans. > > To Vernon: Is Cuspidor also good? > > To Juliana: Thank you, thank you Juliana for clearing that up. Obviously, I > had no knowledge of the context in which that statement was made. In my > "Response to Matt" I was going to say something like "No, I don't think you > are like Jesse Helms" but I assumed that by saying I did not want to condemn > you or Mr. Glazier I was not making such a strict association. You say you > are not sure what it is I want - perhaps some kind of de-decentered poetry, > or "centered" poetry as you say. I thought I was explicit in the Matt > response about my desire for a poetry which put an end to this opposition of > thought and feeling which has taken hold in the wake of the split into > "confessionalist" (emotional) and "materialist" (intellectual) modes. I > listed a few poets that I thought were revolutionary in what they were > "saying" as well as what they were doing with language and form. > > To Richard: I appreciate the reading, Richard, and don't mind being lectured > to if there's something to be learned. I agree that formal experimentation > is an important part of making art and it looks the advances that are going > to be made now will be in the digital realm. Nothing wrong with that. My big > beef is with these revolutionary claims being made for poetry that is > focused on technical experimentation and not much else. The lyrics make the > song as much as the instrumentation. > > To Chris: I wonder what it's like to be one of your students. > > To Matt: Please come back and tell us your thoughts. > > To others: Some further discussion on what "materialist critique," "material > expression," etc. means would be nice. Barrett Watten, Patrick Durgin, Ron > Silliman, Kasey Mohammad - please step up. > > Thanks, > Dave > > P.S.: if anyone still thinks I'm Matt Garite please back-channel me and I > will prove it, if it means that much to you. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:38:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: To More Than One MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/14/02 7:32:25 PM, jerrold@DURATIONPRESS.COM writes: << ah, I see now that this was a quote. missed the quotation marks around what Austin was responding to. at any rate, the attempt to pigeonhole what, exactly, constitutes an innovative aesthetic, is, to my mind (& as you suggest) academically political (it does little except to make a dissertation more interesting (or not)), &, for the most part, smacks of an aesthetic conservatism that misses the point entirely. >> Yes, I was aware that Dave was quoting Glazier, and my remarks were directed at the quote. The issue of indeterminate language is aesthetic, I suppose. But anyone who is versed in poststructuralist philosophy knows that all language/writing is indeterminate, so the distinction in the quote fails to hold. That issue is problematic a to z. Restricting "innovation" to that which puts "indeterminacy" on a billboard is a political gesture. And yes, rather conservative considering the number of decades poets have been playing at that game -- more than a century's worth. Nothing wrong with that sort of writing. It just isn't very innovative anymore. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:41:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: the Risk of Loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/14/02 11:40:28 PM, ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU writes: << Hi I am coming into this at a late point but I feel Glazier is coming from the point of innovation from the delivery system associated with literature and not the clime of the innovation. This political aspect could be applied to his notion of the multiple I, but look for a post months ago by Jeffrey Jullich on that. But Glazier's innovation comes from behind the text, not the text itself. As this message finds its meaning on this list, its coded and delivered amongst texts and code strings that allow for instantiations around the readership of this list. This is the innovations of digital poetries, as the scroll was an innovation to the oral tradition, as Gutenberg was to same said scrolls, as the internet is to the book format of hypertexts and such texts will become non-innovative when the linearity of reading becomes moot. Glazier is onto something here and a closer reading of _DP_ will show this true. His argument doesn't go beyond this for the innovative. Best, Geoffrey Let's at least agree that there is more than one way to innovate. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:18:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ShaunAnne Tangney Humanities Subject: Update on 2002 Conference (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here's the program for the upcoming Robinson Jeffers Association anual conference--to be held this year at Stanford University in recognition of the completion of the Collected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers (5 volumes running over 3,000 pages!) and the new Selected (nearly 700 pages--and a bargain at $25.00!). Stanford UP is the press for both, and our generous hosts for this year's conference. If any of you are in the area, we would be most delighted if you would attend. If you would like any further information about the conference or the assoication, feel free to contact me personally. Best, ShaunAnne Tangney Ass't. Prof., English Minot State University tangney@misu.nodak.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- ***** 10th Annual RJA Conference Program May 24-26, 2002 Tresidder Memorial Union, Stanford University Keynote Address by Tim Hunt Editor, The Collected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers Conference Theme Robinson Jeffers and the Poetry of California Friday, May 24 4:00 RJA Business Meeting 7:00 California Poets Read from Robinson Jeffers A reception hosted by Stanford University Press. Dana Gioia, Tim Hunt, Michael McClure, Al Young, and friends. Saturday, May 25 8:30 Coffee 9:00 Presidents' Welcome Alex Vardamis, University of Vermont Emeritus. 9:15 Keynote Address "The Work of the Edition: Some Possible Lessons and Directions." Tim Hunt, University of Washington, Vancouver. Editor, The Collected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers. 10:00 Poetries of California "The Poet at Home in California," Peter Quigley, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. "Terror / Terroir: Jeffers and the Poetry of Place," James Karman, California State University, Chico. "Covering a Lot of Ground: A Broader View of Robinson Jeffers and His Connections to Photography," Lin Moore, independent photographer and author. "Robinson Jeffers: Ecological Poet," Steven Chapman, The Foundation for Ecology and Culture. Chair: David J. Rothman, Crested Butte Academy and the Robinson Jeffers Association. 12:00 Lunch 2:00 Editing Jeffers, Editing California: A Roundtable Discussion Tim Hunt, University of Washington, Vancouver; Editor, The Collected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers, Stanford University Press. Jim Karman, California State University, Chico; Editor, Stones of the Sur: Poetry by Robinson Jeffers, Photographs by Morley Baer, Stanford University Press. Helen Tartar, Stanford University Press. Dana Gioia, 2002 American Book Award Winner in Poetry for Interrogations at Noon. 3:30 O Fallen Western Star Wars: A Roundtable Discussion on the Current State and Prospects of California Poetry Jack Foley, Host of "Cover to Cover" on KPFA. Dana Gioia Christian Wiman, Northwestern University. 5:00 Adjourn 7:00 Cocktails and Readings [Location and readers TBA] Sunday, May 26 8:30 Coffee 9:00 Poets and Prophets of California "Someways One of the Nobler Animals: Ecology, Misanthropy, and Holism in the Works of Robinson Jeffers and John Muir," Rob Stacy, Albertson College. "Radical Alternatives for a California Poetry: Robinson Jeffers and Kenneth Rexroth," Michael T. Van Dyke, Michigan State University. "The Absence of Arrival: Elizabeth Bishop and the Geography of the Coastline," Toby Bielawski, Las Positas College. "'A Still Shade Overhead': The Poetry of Eric Barker," Elliot Ruchowitz-Roberts. Chair: Alex Vardamis, University of Vermont, Emeritus. 10:45 Putting Jeffers in His Place "Robinson Jeffers and the Sublime," Albert Gelpi, Stanford University Emeritus. "Your Love Will Follow Your Eye: A Defense of Robinson Jeffers's Inhumanism in Terms of Place," ShaunAnne Tangney, Minot State University. "Inhuman or Unhuman? Wildness and Civilization in the Carmel Poems of Robinson Jeffers," Adrielle Mitchell, Nazareth College. "Robinson Jeffers and the Tradition of Living Stone," Oliver Melton, University of Nevada Las Vegas. Chair: Jim Baird, University of North Texas. 12:30 Lunch 2:30 More Poets and Prophets of California "Jeffers and Snyder: Mountains and Oceans Without End," Jim Baird, University of North Texas. "Everson and Jeffers: Landscapes of the Soul," Robert Brophy, California State University, Long Beach. "The Black Rainbow: Robinson Jeffers, Michael McClure and the Night Intelligence," George Hart, University of Nevada, Reno. "Selecting Jeffers: Precedents and Problems," Brett Ralph, Hopkinsville Community College. Chair: ShaunAnne Tangney 4:45 Adjourn ***** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:31:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Lost Blazier In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bill, I was reminded last night about my initial anger over what I thought Loss had said. I agree that Loss is using the wrong phrase to describe something neat about the format a text appears, but innovative and non.innovative are obscuring words which hurt his message. And I most wholly agree that the poet will never out mode self for all the reasons mentioned. Best, Geoffrey -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Austinwja@AOL.COM Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 8:41 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: the Risk of Loss In a message dated 4/14/02 11:40:28 PM, ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU writes: << Hi I am coming into this at a late point but I feel Glazier is coming from the point of innovation from the delivery system associated with literature and not the clime of the innovation. This political aspect could be applied to his notion of the multiple I, but look for a post months ago by Jeffrey Jullich on that. But Glazier's innovation comes from behind the text, not the text itself. As this message finds its meaning on this list, its coded and delivered amongst texts and code strings that allow for instantiations around the readership of this list. This is the innovations of digital poetries, as the scroll was an innovation to the oral tradition, as Gutenberg was to same said scrolls, as the internet is to the book format of hypertexts and such texts will become non-innovative when the linearity of reading becomes moot. Glazier is onto something here and a closer reading of _DP_ will show this true. His argument doesn't go beyond this for the innovative. Best, Geoffrey Let's at least agree that there is more than one way to innovate. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:04:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cheryl Pallant Subject: class text suggestions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, I'm looking for text suggestions, poetry and essay preferably, for my Virginia Commonwealth University summer class, Writing from the Body. The class applies somatic exercises toward writing for performance or the page and will explore sound, rhythm, narrative, meaning and so forth. Texts so far include Helene Cixous' NEWLY BORN WOMAN, Deborah Hay's MY BODY, MY BUDDHIST, and my own UNCOMMON GRAMMAR CLOTH. Thanks. Cheryl Pallant ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:31:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: nature poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Juliana Spohr wrote: >>> More specifically, I remember saying that nature poetry is immoral because it shows the bird but not the bulldozer that is threatening the bird's habitat. Not that radical a position. Not based on disgust of nature but rather on respect for it. I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. >>> Gee whiz, Juliana. That's a lot of freight for a little flower poem to haul. O passion flower thou art sick? LF ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:59:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek Rogerson Subject: [Fwd: [Sigia-l] Interactive Alice] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Sigia-l] Interactive Alice From: Tom Burke Hello all, You're going to want to read today's NY Times for the article on textarc.org, a site featuring software that maps the content and structure of literary classics such as Alice in Wonderland, turning a linear narrative into an interactive map. Associations between words and even the disposition of the author's prose are revealed graphically a la the brain. See it in action: http://www.textarc.org/ Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/15/arts/15ARTS.html Next stop, wonderland. --Tom ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:00:59 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: Re: nature poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like the fact that Juliana is becoming an anti-nature poetry nature poet. And Laura. Everything carries a hell of a lot of freight here. It's where nature meets history and gets erased, or vice versa. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fargas Laura" To: Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 4:31 AM Subject: Re: nature poetry > Juliana Spohr wrote: > > >>> More specifically, I remember saying that nature poetry is immoral > because it shows the bird but not the bulldozer that is threatening the > bird's habitat. Not that radical a position. Not based on disgust of > nature but rather on respect for it. > > I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and > showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and > clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the > ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. >>> > > > > Gee whiz, Juliana. That's a lot of freight for a little flower poem to > haul. O passion flower thou art sick? > > LF ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:31:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: The Thermidor Response (A Cento) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Thermidor Response (A Cento) (or creolization? Using words like plural? multivalent? and I I's polysemous? a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent a text of alternative textuality always makes a good innovative poem. act like you understand critical theory -- that way people will respect the aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of aesthetico-materialist critique. Let the reader make up the meaning. affordable dependable all eroticism to the keyboard! all hail the episteme of the Intel processor! All sensuality all poetry is easily classifiable into the categories of innovative all writing and art is a power struggle for public space. Social stature ambition equals arrogance. Introspection is solipsistic and regressive let us make an end to the alienation you encounter in the world at large. We are the innovative text treating the making of meaning as problematic-- an interesting and radical notion of what a poem is and could be and and and its disturbing contents will go away if we just let it. Hopefully, anomie is a form of utopia. Indulge in alienation. Take great pride in are you on? Print is static and the digital medium fluid. Don't be art that is purely formal -- it will not result in a good period style at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist attraction is pure construct. All marriages are arranged. Good feelings avoid extreme sensations. Never be unpredictable. It weirds people out back based on machinic models is still innovative as hell. be be alienated but don't be a victim. We live in a victim culture and too be fluid. be miserable. It shows everyone that you care. be self-reflexive be self-absorbed. beauty shall have no seat in the pantheon of values. Beauty is dangerous being better, more like chicken, than poems on paper (they taste like fish) bring it into existence. Only language and code are needed. but avoid being too serious that brooding, agonizing dark night of certainty of semantic meaning it's no good by creating a poetry analogous to Muzak or (background) noise one is speaking for no one but for those who speak of it, the ideology of your poetry as cognitive music. If someone points out that it isn't call them selfish lifestyle elements. Poems that refer to cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud are too full of anger to be speaking for all. collaborate to transcend your ego and then tell us all about it. Get rid of commercial flowers coming out of your collective fudge tunnel. computers are perfect machines. They will solve the problem of the I conglomerates like Microsoft and Time Warner. One is resisting conventional could, you know, go back to my place and collaborate. create a poetry that motivates the reader to focus on every word criticize it that much (it's just getting started!) cultural status quo and of our ways of reading as an apparatus of that dark dark dark use of personal experiences as subject matter for poetry by the value of the self. then deny the value of the self describe digital media as a plural, democratic space of poesis. The proper way to discourse is to replace community then all social problems will be solved: digital poet (clearing throat): Uh, I said, Let's get naked. Don't digital poet (pounding fists on desk): Look, I Don't have all day. Show digital poet (throwing arms into the air): Oh, at last! It's alive. You digital poet (whispering): I've got some algorithms in my car. I digital poet gives the author function a pink slip. Goodbye author digital poet: Hi, writing machine! Let's get naked and engage the digital poet: I love expired pages! Oh yeah, right there, such massive discrete events are anecdotal. Don't be crazy. Try to be non-normative instead. Don't express your subjectivity in a poem (prose is okay). However, at all costs don't follow your bliss; follow a reading list for economic reasons, of course, when emotions shift in tone prevent engagement with the medium. Emotions are passe -- leftovers from the age of reptiles. The endless theorizing about a medium that is just getting started but don't engage the materiality of the medium of writing. Be estranged. It proves you're an intellectual and different even though it is an accomplished fact, the Revolution of the Word must make the poem-as-machine (a Modernist invention) events, everything else, including chickens. Poems on the World Wide Web taste everything exists to be on-line one day. except about other people whining. expression. for harmony and delight. It is repulsive. function, getting checks in the mail) so no one should use it except certain has-beens who have spoken and spoken and spoken now give me the ten digital commandments and I'll be spoken hello writing machine. historical evidence that certain forms of language are essentially history will go away too some day. housing, warm meal, etc. how different is ginger ale when drinking from a crystal flute compared to how you ridiculous you sound, when being ironic. human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of love poetry, books and language but I don't love meaning. Meaning ideological practice idiolectic poetry -- it will unite the races and sexes if if you decide to stop writing poetry say it was for economic reasons if you do not engage the medium, you can't be an innovative poet if you do use the I it can only refer to yourself, but quote Rimbaud if immorality if in cyberspace there are no slums. if in our history of literary teleologies, narrative has no future. if individualism is anti-social. To look within oneself is apolitical. Self is innovative. integrate it into the data stream but don't touch the hard drive. interview all your poet-friends because you have little else to offer. you know the drill to throw the reader off guard. it has the word me in it. and is commodified except the meaning of this statement. it is important to engage in practice that provides a critique of the it with its overpowering stimulation of the senses, in its satisfaction at least. let them because literature must have a canon now! love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, is a machine! make up a name for a new kind of poetry and hold a conference on it. make it up, shaped by institutional and ideological concerns. Electronic making. A woman's place is in the kitchen making breakfast. materiality is permanently at war with the night of emotion. materiality of the medium of writing. Innovative poetry asks, Won't you make some materiality of your medium meaning-- that meaning is a hindrance to the liberation of the sign's materiality from mechanical mediation and ideology the only subject matter of poetry from mock sincerity sincerely. Deride the need to communicate and be heard musical or rhythmic, call it noise. must my co-author be nature and culture -- we shall not share the same dentist. nature is immoral. It doesn't even exist, which is the greatest need to rise in literary circles. never define materialist practice, materialist poetics because nobody believes in poetry enough to die for it anymore, which is a non-innovative literature and can be said to possess a number of non-innovative notions of a text of alternative textuality makes a good innovative poem digital poetry is innovative. not. maybe. I don't know. Don't let it inspire you. my innovative digital poetry group That way you can claim (at the next MLA soiree) no more striving for the infinite. No more fighting for heaven one can never be outside society. Community is total. The informatics of out are oppressive. part particular person, animal, body part, sexual position/experience, people are complaining. If you're white, male or educated you needn't perform. pixels run through my silken hair. poems about I's in trouble tend to be less innovative than poems about race, class, gender which will be judged according to structures of race, class, gender poetry shall be automated, by us. It no longer needs humanity except to quote two other people no one will notice. qualify the emphasis on the I in the making of a poem or you can't be yourself then at the beginning of every chapter in your book on digital quotons give up cultures: we have institutions rail against the academy but complain when academics don't invite you to represent your phallus in public. Yes it's true the phallus cannot be represented properly (except in order to pave the way for domination) but that's a re-telling and reworking of the operating system of our ideological habits. For instance, say your poems are all about desire but never about the desire for a sense perception. That's an illusion, so stop writing from your experience. serve the computerized medium -- not the other way around. sex the music. shame shows how open-minded and widely learned you are. Slip some racism in while your at it. slam poetry is a vulgar folk art but will serve as a useful category in social and psychological paradigms and regimes promoted and maintained by social relations. The Language poets did not want to re-legislate the soul act. Poetry's just a game anyway. speak or write in an obdurate utopian discourse and when someone points out that you've spell poesis as poeioeisis so what? status quo. The point of poetry is to create a poetry that is a material spokesmanship for their corpus. To achieve universality, hide your subjectivity and subvert the position of the monolinear the I will always refer to the author who is dead, not alive, but whose books will be available for sale. Final Statements: the cultural status quo lies in the act of not engaging the materiality the ego calls attention to itself the goal of digital poetry is a wealth of media and a poverty of of the Language poets were not Romantic in their supposition that the medium of writing is now progressing through innovation. the Modernist avant-garde adopted the techniques and rhythms of the Modernist moment as the golden age of radical linguistic practice ended last night the only thing that shall be celebrated is critique. the poet's place is in the medium exploring its materiality some say the poet's place is in the home the typewriter has taken you hostage the visionary and the everyday shall not lie down in the same bunk bed -- it's bad for business You'll be Moses and microchips will be your tablets. One Last Bit of Advice: try not to write or talk about your parents, except in interviews. try to find words embedded in other words (an unexplored niche!) try to hybridize your discourse by enlivening it with terms like TV and verboten we can only be sure of one thing: The truth is not attainable. As we no longer have bodies we no longer have words we are what matters in the end. when a really good poet dies, immediately call for a conference writing machine: Error message: Page Expired. writing machine: Hi. writing machine: Hi. writing machine: Hi. writing machine: Hi. writing machine: Hi. writing machine: Hi. you're an expert. you are indeterminacy and I'm logging off! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:07:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Hello Jeffrey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit but am I the David -you- are speaking of? Perhaps it's time to use surnames again. Reading messages that -might- be meant for me makes my head hurt. Best, David Bromige -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Gatza To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:57 PM Subject: Re: Hello Jeffrey > Hi David, > > I know I'm not the Jeffrey you are speaking of, but the I in Glazier is >very interesting point to bring out in poetry. It's a true enough argument >and I too had difficult accepting it at first. it has an all inclusiveness >that seems yucky at first, but it is quite blithe in spirit. From what I >understand, his goal is the same as asking what makes up the river? The I is >made up of several selves who have a common background as does yours so we >can both be beneficiary of the I intended message taking that I to be you as >me as she. Its very simple yet complex when taking a global community and >not to solitary poet. There is a plurality of identity which at once one >cannot argue against. This is quite a radical notion, as Glazier points out >"such a perspective can be socially beneficial in a heterogeneous society as >it obviates the need for one I to be more valid than others. a concept >disruptive of social equality" (DP 50) > > > Best, Geoffrey > > >Geoffrey Gatza >editor BlazeVOX2k1 >http://vorplesword.com/ > __o > _`\<,_ > (*)/ (*) > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of david hess >Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:19 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Hello Jeffrey > >(I'm sorry if people are getting screwed-up text formatting... anyone know >what's causing it?) > > > >Dear Jeffrey, > >The list of poets I offered as examples whose work merges thinking and >feeling was not meant to be exhaustive at all. I chose those poets because >they were all PISSED OFF in some way or another -- and they did not exclude >such emotions from their art -- and were nonetheless doing innovative work. >At a couple different places in his book Glazier says that innovative poetry >excludes an "I" which is marked by animosity. I just find that totally >ridiculous. So that's why I wrote this in "Poetry as Social Practice": > >"Love and rage shall not go out on dates. The poetry of Blake, Rimbaud, >Cesaire, Rukeyser, Vallejo and Artaud is too full of anger to be >innovative." > >Again, emotion need not be divorced from innovation, experimentation, >engagement with the medium. (Yes, it feels like were are in kindegarten >doesn't it). That's all I'm saying there -- not proposing a totally >alternative tradition on which to base a totally new poetics. > >Rimbaud and Artaud have never been, to my knowledge, chosen as precedents to >the current materialist tradition. It's been Stein, Zukofsky, Cage and >others. > >I gotta be honest and say I read through your post once and have no desire >to read it again. Do you realize that you have a tendency to talk at people, >at least in your writing? For the most part you totally lose me after those >first few paragraphs. > >Relax and take a deep breath, >Dave > > >"Nothing but a fine Nerve Meter" >- Artaud > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:54:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: nature poetry In-Reply-To: <001801c1e4a7$7fc9fda0$6401a8c0@Mac> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I like the fact that Juliana is becoming an anti-nature poetry nature poet. > And Laura. Everything carries a hell of a lot of freight here. Speaking of carrying freight! I found this old Begly McCoy poem -- it was in his (her?) second collection _Shining Beauty_ (believe that was a Bloodaxe title). I typed it in years ago as part of a classroom exercise. It really isn't very good, but forceful and oddly relevant. Plus, it's in tercets. NATURE, BULLDOZER, LITERATURE O tiny plant, yellow tractor, and text: The first of you smooshed by the second, but both encompassed by the third. I seek the sower, the hard-hatted driver, and the hard-bitten protester-poetaster, so I might write about this vital trinity. I will not speak of bulls without speaking also of their dozers, for such would be unethical. I will not name flowers without spiting their pots. O plastic pot attempting to confine Nature's root, let white congested capillaries crack you by slow pressure of growth: unwanted boundary. O mad machine, let weeds rise up around your rotors, let rain embezzle oxides from your paint, and vines enshroud your then rust-weakened frame. O human poet attempting to confine this scene, let it overpower your mad leaking pen, O ethical imperialist, dogmatic doggerelist. I'd rather read what flowers write of you some day, their budding heads working around your inscribed stone, their roots plowing through your small, undescribed room. [B.M.] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:51:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - 3 : 2 : 1 : 19 : 19 3 3 : 2 2 : 1 1 : 19 19 : 5 5 3 3 3 : 2 2 2 : 1 1 1 : 7 7 7 : 20 20 20 Write corpses 6 6 6 through my 3 3 3 ! 3 3 3 3 : 2 2 2 2 : 1 1 1 1 : 6 6 6 6 : 8 8 8 8 Your civilian dissolves my 7 7 7 7 ! soldier in gang-rape dismember 3 3 3 3 3 : 2 2 2 2 2 : 1 1 1 1 1 : 5 5 5 5 5 : 25 25 25 25 3 3 3 3 3 3 : 2 2 2 2 2 2 : 1 1 1 1 1 1 : 14 14 14 14 14 14 : 19 19 19 19 19 19 Write thrust 13 13 13 13 13 13 through my 3 3 3 3 3 3 ! 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 : 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 : 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 : 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 : 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 Does 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 replace your 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 ? boyfriend in gang-rape dismember 3 : 2 : 1 : 18 : 20 Does 1 replace your 3 ? civilian in gang-rape dismember 3 : 2 : 1 : 9 : 21 Does 1 replace your 3 ? girlfriend in gang-rape dismember 3 : 2 : 1 : 23 : 21 Your civilian dissolves my 20 ! naked-man in gang-rape dismember 3 : 2 : 1 : 18 : 12 Write shrapnel 17 through my 3 ! 3 : 2 : 1 : 5 : 19 3 : 2 : 1 : 20 : 19 Does 1 replace your 3 ? girlfriend in gang-rape dismember I What damage have you done to your 1 ... _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:13:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Re: nature poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii okay the next celebrity death match is going to be mary oliver vs juliana spahr-- you better watch out juliana, mary's older but she's CRAFTY! --- Aaron Belz wrote: > > I like the fact that Juliana is becoming an > anti-nature poetry nature poet. > > And Laura. Everything carries a hell of a lot of > freight here. > > > Speaking of carrying freight! > > I found this old Begly McCoy poem -- it was in his > (her?) second collection > _Shining Beauty_ (believe that was a Bloodaxe > title). I typed it in years > ago as part of a classroom exercise. It really > isn't very good, but > forceful and oddly relevant. Plus, it's in tercets. > > > > NATURE, BULLDOZER, LITERATURE > > O tiny plant, yellow tractor, and text: > The first of you smooshed by the second, > but both encompassed by the third. > > I seek the sower, the hard-hatted driver, > and the hard-bitten protester-poetaster, > so I might write about this vital trinity. > > I will not speak of bulls without speaking also > of their dozers, for such would be unethical. > I will not name flowers without spiting their pots. > > O plastic pot attempting to confine Nature's root, > let white congested capillaries crack you > by slow pressure of growth: unwanted boundary. > > O mad machine, let weeds rise up around your rotors, > let rain embezzle oxides from your paint, > and vines enshroud your then rust-weakened frame. > > O human poet attempting to confine this scene, > let it overpower your mad leaking pen, > O ethical imperialist, dogmatic doggerelist. > > I'd rather read what flowers write of you some day, > their budding heads working around your inscribed > stone, > their roots plowing through your small, undescribed > room. > > > [B.M.] ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:17:18 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [webartery] defining language poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First, a complaint: why do the messages posted at the poetry discussion group so often have the return addresses of the senders on them rather than I keep replying to individual senders thinking I'm replying to the group. Okay, now my message, again. > I am a naive person who will attempt to define language > poetry based on actually reading it; Good luck, Millie. I find your definition interesting but a little inconcise. As a taxonomaniac, I've tried myself to define language poetry. I gave up trying to find a definition that would cover everything that's been called "language poetry" or that could distinguish it from many poetries that have not been called that. So I ordained a special category called "xenolinguistic poetry" that covers much of what is called "language poetry." I divide it into two subcategories: "infraverbal poetry" (basically the creative misuse of spelling--usually at the level of the word or smaller) and "sprungrammar poetry" (creative misuse of parts of speech, word order, etc.), which I consider where most of the best language poetry occurs. Many language poets mix these two categories, often with others, but usually a language poem specializes in one technique strongly enough to make its category easy to figure out. As for abrupt switches of topic, though, or whatever, I consider that something else: "jump-cut poetry," a subcategory of "idiological poetry." Pound/Eliot. --Bob G. > > > I know this is a hopelessly simplistic idea because one > > is supposed to answer questions such as this based on difficult theory... > > (I am replying to a challenge to describe what is languag poetry as a > style > > other than by saying it is associated with a paritcular group of poets who > > practice it, which is why I do the definition without reference to actual > > poets. I am being an especial idiot to try to do this and CC to the > POETICS > > list, because I know that a binch of major language poets are on the > list -- > > but I'm curious what they think of my impressina of what they do!) > > > > Language poetry is poetry in which chunks of some size, ranging from the > > word to the stanza appear to have no connection with subsequent chunks. > The > > chunks themselves may or may not me intellegible, but they tend either to > > represent complex nouns without verbs or nonsense narrative. But the > > essential feature is the lack of correlation between successive chunks. > > > > Because they cannot say anything upon a first, sequential, reading, either > > narratively, lyrically, or philosophically, given the above, language > poems > > are only readable if they are funny (which they often are) or beautiful, > but > > they are suspect if beautiful. (They are not suspect if they are > > unreadable.) They may use techniques of traditional poetries within > chunks, > > such as realistic free verse, Modernism, various past postmodernisms, etc. > > > > Upon actual study, such as analysis of what the chunks in the poem seem to > > be about as a whole and what the style of the chunks implies about their > > meaning, some meaning can be extracted from the language poem, but it is > not > > fashionable to do this, because it goes against the the theory of language > > poetry which claims that the style is based on drawing attention to the > > physicality of language itself, divorced from meaning. However there is > no > > evidence that anyone, including the authors of the various manifestos on > > language poetry, ever wrote a long poem that did this, which is good news, > > because their poems were better than they would have been had they > followed > > their theories to the letter... > > > > The above is primarily about book-length language poems. There are some > > good (and entertaining) books such as Bernstein's new With Strings which > > have short poems which really are divorced from meaning, and yet are well > > worth reading. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Andrews [mailto:jim@vispo.com] > > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 6:43 PM > > To: Webartery@Yahoogroups. Com > > Subject: [webartery] nominal > > > > > > Does "language poetry" refer to an intelligable type of poetry in a more > > clearly representational manner than it does to an age or time and > specific > > figures in that time? > > > > If you were to try to describe that type of poetry, I think we would all > get > > a chuckle. Interesting things could be said about that type of poetry, > > certainly. But what about the next language poem or poet you haven't > > accounted for, and his/her work. It mightn't fit so nicely within the > > categorization. Indeed, we are assured that the poets have been as > contrary > > as possible within whatever limits they have set for themselves. We are, > > after all, chasing people into categories who have devoted their lives to > > avoiding being easily categorized. > > > > Why do we bother? > > > > Well, if we are kind, we do not intend to pen and torture them with > > blustering inaccurate generalizations that at once slay all sense and > > sharpen our own blade. Instead, in seeking to understand the moment of the > > art, its significance, its methods, its subjects and interests, its > > philosophies and criticality, and so on, we are reduced to a need for > words > > in which to discuss the matter, words that are themselves reductive of > that > > time, art, and the people who practiced it. > > > > Of course, strong attempts to understand these things are important. > > > > Yet I think you may grant by now that "language poetry" is less clearly > > intelligable as a *type* of poetry than as something associated with a > > particular age or time and with specific figures in that time. > > > > ja > > > > PS: I sought the nature of The One or, to lose from the outset, oneness > and > > witnessed the waving of hands. It was explained to me that it was > necessary > > to wave one's hands on such points and precisely why. Is there oneness > apart > > from the set of all things that are one? Socrates remarked to the straw > man > > during a search for 'the good' that he wasn't looking for example but for > > what is common to all the examples. > > > > And then > > > > and then > > > > and then > > > > Politics of the nominal and logic as formal weapon. > > > > ja > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:56:14 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [webartery] defining language poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > First, a complaint: why do the messages posted at the poetry discussion > group so often have the return addresses of the senders on them rather than > I see my message was posted that way, too. Am I doing something wrong? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:10:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: Fwd: Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays Her face was a perfect oval, like a circle that had its two other sides gently compressed by a Thigh Master. --Sue Lin Chong, Washington His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free. --Chuck Smith, Woodbridge He spoke with the wisdom that can only come from experience, like a Guy who went blind because he looked at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it and now goes around the country speaking at high schools about the dangers of looking at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it. --Joseph Romm, Washington She caught your eye like one of those pointy hook latches that used to dangle from screen doors and would fly up whenever you banged the door open again. --Rich Murphy, Fairfax Station The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn't. --Russell Beland, Springfield McBride fell 12 stories, hitting the pavement like a Hefty bag filled with vegetable soup. --Paul Sabourin, Silver Spring From the attic came an unearthly howl. The whole scene had an eerie, surreal quality, like when you're on vacation in another city and "Jeopardy" comes on at 7:00 p. m. instead of 7:30. --Roy Ashley, Washington Her hair glistened in the rain like nose hair after a sneeze. --Chuck Smith, Woodbridge Her eyes were like two brown circles with big black dots in the center. -Russell Beland, Springfield Bob was as perplexed as a hacker who means to access T: flw.quid55328.com\aaakk/ch@ung but gets T: \flw.quidaaakk/ch@ung by mistake. --Ken Krattenmaker, Landover Hills Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever. --Unknown He was as tall as a six-foot-three-inch tree. --Jack Bross, Chevy Chase The hailstones leaped from the pavement, just like maggots when you fry them in hot grease. --Gary F. Hevel, Silver Spring Long separated by cruel fate, the star-crossed lovers raced across the grassy field toward each other like two freight trains, one having left Cleveland at 6:36 p.m. traveling at 55 mph, the other from Topeka at 4:19 p.m. at a speed of 35 mph. --Jennifer Hart, Arlington The politician was gone but unnoticed, like the period after the Dr. on a Dr Pepper can. --Wayne Goode, Madison, AL They lived in a typical suburban neighborhood with picket fences that resembled Nancy Kerrigan's teeth. --Paul Kocak, Syracuse NY John and Mary had never met. They were like two hummingbirds who had also never met. --Russell Beland, Springfield The thunder was ominous sounding, much like the sound of a thin sheet of metal being shaken backstage during the storm scene in a play. --Barbara Fetherolf, Alexandria The red brick wall was the color of a brick-red Crayola crayon. --Unknown He fell for her like his heart was a mob informant and she was the East River. --Brian Broadus, Charlottesville Even in his last years, Grandpappy had a mind like a steel trap, only one that had been left out so long, it had rusted shut. -- Sandra Hull, Arlington The door had been forced, as forced as the dialogue during the interview portion of "Jeopardy! " --Jean Sorensen, Herndon Shots rang out, as shots are wont to do. --Jerry Pannullo, Kensington The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work. --Malcolm Fleschner, Arlington The young fighter had a hungry look, the kind you get from not eating for a while. --Malcolm Fleschner, Arlington "Oh, Jason, take me! " she panted, her breasts heaving like a college freshman on $1-a-beer night. --Bonnie Speary Devore, Gaithersburg He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something. --John Kammer, Herndon Her artistic sense was exquisitely refined, like someone who can tell butter from I Can't Believe It's Not Butter. --Barbara Collier, Garrett Park She had a deep, throaty, genuine laugh, like that sound a dog makes just before it throws up. --Susan Reese, Arlington It came down the stairs looking very much like something no one had ever seen before. --Marian Carlsson, Lexington The knife was as sharp as the tone used by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex. ) in her first several points of parliamentary procedure made to Rep. Henry Hyde (R-Ill. ) in the House Judiciary Committee hearings on the impeachment of President William Jefferson Clinton. --J. F. Knowles, Springfield The ballerina rose gracefully en pointe and extended one slender leg behind her, like a dog at a fire hydrant. --Jennifer Hart, Arlington The revelation that his marriage of 30 years had disintegrated because of his wife's infidelity came as a rude shock, like a surcharge at a formerly surcharge-free ATM. --Paul J. Kocak, Syracuse The dandelion swayed in the gentle breeze like an oscillating electric fan set on medium. --Unknown It was an American tradition, like fathers chasing kids around with power tools. --Brian Broadus, Charlottesville He was deeply in love. When she spoke, he thought he heard bells, as if she were a garbage truck backing up. --Susan Reese, Arlington She was as easy as the "TV Guide" crossword. --Tom Witte, Gaithersburg Her eyes were like limpid pools, only they had forgotten to put in any pH cleanser. --Chuck Smith, Woodbridge She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. --Brian Broadus, Charlottesville She walked into my office like a centipede with 98 missing legs. --Jonathan Paul, Garrett Park Her voice had that tense, grating quality, like a first-generation thermal paper fax machine that needed a band tightened. --Sue Lin Chong, Washington It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to the wall. --Brian Broadus, Charlottesville >www.rockstargames.com >+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > Elizabeth Treadwell http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:14:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: the Risk of Loss In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You know, I once phoned pequeno about small presses at SUNYAB at both the numbers he left in his recorded messaage. Never got an answer. So...collegiality? I am at a loss. Gene At 08:41 AM 4/15/02 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/14/02 11:40:28 PM, ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU writes: > ><< Hi > > > I am coming into this at a late point but I feel Glazier is coming >from the > >point of innovation from the delivery system associated with literature and > >not the clime of the innovation. This political aspect could be applied to > >his notion of the multiple I, but look for a post months ago by Jeffrey > >Jullich on that. But Glazier's innovation comes from behind the text, not > >the text itself. As this message finds its meaning on this list, its coded > >and delivered amongst texts and code strings that allow for instantiations > >around the readership of this list. This is the innovations of digital > >poetries, as the scroll was an innovation to the oral tradition, as > >Gutenberg was to same said scrolls, as the internet is to the book format of > >hypertexts and such texts will become non-innovative when the linearity of > >reading becomes moot. Glazier is onto something here and a closer reading of > >_DP_ will show this true. His argument doesn't go beyond this for the > >innovative. > > > > Best, Geoffrey > >Let's at least agree that there is more than one way to innovate. Best, Bill > > > >WilliamJamesAustin.com >KojaPress.com >Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:17:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Update on 2002 Conference (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Revisit "Shine, Perishing Republic." Presciently, Robinson had lots to say in lot of George II's coup. Gene At 08:18 AM 4/15/02 -0500, you wrote: >Here's the program for the upcoming Robinson Jeffers Association anual >conference--to be held this year at Stanford University in recognition of >the completion of the Collected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers (5 volumes >running over 3,000 pages!) and the new Selected (nearly 700 pages--and a >bargain at $25.00!). Stanford UP is the press for both, and our >generous hosts for this year's conference. If any of you are in the area, >we would be most delighted if you would attend. If you would like any >further information about the conference or the assoication, feel free to >contact me personally. > >Best, >ShaunAnne Tangney >Ass't. Prof., English >Minot State University >tangney@misu.nodak.edu > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >***** > >10th Annual RJA Conference Program > >May 24-26, 2002 > >Tresidder Memorial Union, Stanford University > >Keynote Address by Tim Hunt > >Editor, The Collected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers > >Conference Theme > >Robinson Jeffers and the Poetry of California > >Friday, May 24 > >4:00 RJA Business Meeting > >7:00 California Poets Read from Robinson Jeffers > >A reception hosted by Stanford University Press. > >Dana Gioia, Tim Hunt, Michael McClure, Al Young, and friends. > >Saturday, May 25 > >8:30 Coffee > >9:00 Presidents' Welcome > >Alex Vardamis, University of Vermont Emeritus. > > >9:15 Keynote Address > >"The Work of the Edition: Some Possible Lessons and Directions." > >Tim Hunt, University of Washington, Vancouver. > >Editor, The Collected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers. > >10:00 Poetries of California > >"The Poet at Home in California," Peter Quigley, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical >University. > >"Terror / Terroir: Jeffers and the Poetry of Place," James Karman, >California State University, Chico. > >"Covering a Lot of Ground: A Broader View of Robinson Jeffers and His >Connections to Photography," Lin Moore, independent photographer and author. > >"Robinson Jeffers: Ecological Poet," Steven Chapman, The Foundation for >Ecology and Culture. > >Chair: David J. Rothman, Crested Butte Academy and the Robinson Jeffers >Association. > >12:00 Lunch > >2:00 Editing Jeffers, Editing California: A Roundtable Discussion > >Tim Hunt, University of Washington, Vancouver; Editor, The Collected >Poetry of Robinson Jeffers, Stanford University Press. > >Jim Karman, California State University, Chico; Editor, Stones of the Sur: >Poetry by Robinson Jeffers, Photographs by Morley Baer, Stanford >University Press. > >Helen Tartar, Stanford University Press. > >Dana Gioia, 2002 American Book Award Winner in Poetry for Interrogations >at Noon. > >3:30 O Fallen Western Star Wars: A Roundtable Discussion on the Current >State and Prospects of California Poetry > >Jack Foley, Host of "Cover to Cover" on KPFA. > >Dana Gioia > >Christian Wiman, Northwestern University. > >5:00 Adjourn > > >7:00 Cocktails and Readings > > >[Location and readers TBA] > >Sunday, May 26 > >8:30 Coffee > >9:00 Poets and Prophets of California > >"Someways One of the Nobler Animals: Ecology, Misanthropy, and Holism in >the Works of Robinson Jeffers and John Muir," Rob Stacy, Albertson College. > >"Radical Alternatives for a California Poetry: Robinson Jeffers and >Kenneth Rexroth," Michael T. Van Dyke, Michigan State University. > >"The Absence of Arrival: Elizabeth Bishop and the Geography of the >Coastline," Toby Bielawski, Las Positas College. > >"'A Still Shade Overhead': The Poetry of Eric Barker," Elliot >Ruchowitz-Roberts. > >Chair: Alex Vardamis, University of Vermont, Emeritus. > >10:45 Putting Jeffers in His Place > >"Robinson Jeffers and the Sublime," Albert Gelpi, Stanford University >Emeritus. > >"Your Love Will Follow Your Eye: A Defense of Robinson Jeffers's >Inhumanism in Terms of Place," ShaunAnne Tangney, Minot State University. > >"Inhuman or Unhuman? Wildness and Civilization in the Carmel Poems of >Robinson Jeffers," Adrielle Mitchell, Nazareth College. > >"Robinson Jeffers and the Tradition of Living Stone," Oliver Melton, >University of Nevada Las Vegas. > >Chair: Jim Baird, University of North Texas. > >12:30 Lunch > >2:30 More Poets and Prophets of California > >"Jeffers and Snyder: Mountains and Oceans Without End," Jim Baird, >University of North Texas. > >"Everson and Jeffers: Landscapes of the Soul," Robert Brophy, California >State University, Long Beach. > >"The Black Rainbow: Robinson Jeffers, Michael McClure and the Night >Intelligence," George Hart, University of Nevada, Reno. > >"Selecting Jeffers: Precedents and Problems," Brett Ralph, Hopkinsville >Community College. > >Chair: ShaunAnne Tangney > >4:45 Adjourn > >***** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:40:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: nature poetry & other semantics questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey everyone, I just want to chime in about Juliana Spahr's comment. When I read it in PPNL it wasn't recognizable to me. That is, she made some similar comments at her reading at Small Press Traffic in San Francisco last fall, and these comments did not seem as extreme as that quote looked on the pages of PPNL. Rather, I thought they were quite thoughtful and as such tended to provoke thought, questions, etc --- certainly no form of censorship for goodness sake. But while I'm online I must also point to something Spahr herself wrote in the April/May PPNL. (& kudos to Ange Mlinko for editing such a conversation stirrer). Towards the end of her essay, "Poetry in a Time of Crisis", Spahr writes: "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and the selfish violence of terrorism." My problem with this phrase is a matter of word choices. I think it is very important to be careful here. The US's privilege and imperialism are forms of violence, and giving them fancier monikers does no service to understanding these complex situations. Finally, I had a problem with David Perry's third paragraph (still in the April/May PPNL) in which he writes: "...a postmodern nation of nature that perversely naturalizes environmental degradation by way of cheap deconstruction of 'nature' is surely worse than the traditional romanticization of it." Briefly, this phrasing keeps us stuck in an abstract (& alors, binaryish) notion that we and are actions are separate from nature. Perhaps Perry went on to address this, but I stopped there. And I'll stop here. Had been thinking on these things anyway as with Marcella Durand I am planning an event/talk/etc about ecology and poetry for next season at Small Press Traffic. Cheerio, Elizabeth Treadwell http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:55:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: nature poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hoho how's about workshopper jamboree Walmart read ins Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:48:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth, These revive my faith in analogies and metaphors. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:34:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?trAce_Online_Writers'_Workshop_with_Carolyn_Gue?= =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?rtin_&_Kate_Pullinger__4_week_Introductory_?= =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Offer__=A328_GBP_=28fwd=29?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:49:27 +0000 From: trace@ntu.ac.uk To: sondheim@panix.com Subject: trAce Online Writers' Workshop with Carolyn Guertin & Kate Pullinger 4 week Introductory Offer =A328 GBP This month trAce opens an Online Writers' Workshop, a permanent ongoing gro= up running all year round and hosted by two resident writers at any one tim= e. Starting on April 29th for two months, the hosts will be Carolyn Guertin= and Kate Pullinger. Future hosts will include Randy Adams; Peter Howard; K= aren King; Sharon Rundle; & Alan Sondheim. The trAce Workshop provides advice and support for both general creative wr= iting plus new media writing and webdesign in an informal area designed for= sharing work, learning new skills, and working collaboratively. Content an= d emphasis will vary depending upon the resident tutors and the interests o= f the current participants. FEES 4 week Introductory Offer =A328 GBP 4 weeks =A344 GBP 8 weeks =A386 GBP 12 weeks =A3120 GBP 1 Year =A3460 GBP Sign up in blocks of 4 weeks, or even for a whole year. For more information go to http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/workshop.h= tm 10 Week Courses also starting 29th April: Animated Poetry in Flash with Peter Howard Introduction to the Internet for Writers with Helen Whitehead Travel Writing for Fun and Profit with Caron James Web Design Workshop with Randy Adams See http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/school/courses/index.htm "This was a blast: my fellow students produced smart, thoughtful, funny, be= autiful and hilarious work. I felt challenged to do my best and excited to = see how others were progressing with their pieces. I plan to follow their w= ork from now on! I'm astonished by how much I learned about Flash; I had hi= gh hopes and they were far exceeded." Student of Animated Poetry in Flash For full information about courses and tutors throughout the year go to htt= p://tracewritingschool.com or call +44 (0)115 8483533 Catherine Gillam trAce Online Writing School The Nottingham Trent University Clifton Lane Nottingham NG11 8NS UK Tel: +44(0)115 8483533 Fax: +44(0)115 8486364 Mail: traceschool@ntu.ac.uk You have received this mail because you visited the trAce site and register= ed to be kept informed of our activities. If you would like to be removed f= rom this database, please send an email to trace@ntu.ac.uk with the subject= line UNSUB REGISTER. Please be sure that you send the email from the addre= ss with which you registered, or give your name in the body of your email. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:30:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: New Zealand EPC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The New Zealand EPC is now up and running at http://www.nzepc.auckland.ac.nz featuring author pages for Alan Brunton Robert Creeley Lauris Edmond Murray Edmond Robin Hyde Michele Leggott Len Lye Bill Manhire Elizabeth Smither Kendrick Smithyman Robert Sullivan Ian Wedde Yang Lian And sections of essays, by, in addition to some of the above, Wystan Curnow, Alan Loney, Leigh Davis, and Roger Horrocks, two transcriptions of 1995 Lyn Hejinians talks, plus Pamela Banting and Douglas Barbour, and more. Looking just at the sound/video section http://www.nzepc.auckland.ac.nz/sounds/soundnz.ptml There are several long excerpts from a live video simulcast I did this summer (NY to Auckland), five video segments from Lyn Hejinian (including a 6 minute clip from My Life), a Robert Creeley video from 1995 reading of "The Dogs of Auckland" in Auckland, as well as audio files of a number of the New Zealand poets mentioned above. Thanks to Michele Leggott and Brian Flaherty for putting this tremendous resources on line. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:23:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: Response to Matt In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Crimminy (anybody know the correct spelling of that word?) -- I'm coming in a little late, but with a few thoughts and cents: =20 From the below post: "It=92s this discourse and the political claims that he and you and others >make, that I take offense to. If this discourse did not exist, I probably >wouldn=92t be opening my mouth. One could simply judge a poem or artwork = =AD >digital, print-based or whatever =AD on its aesthetic and intellectual= merits >(which is not exactly what I=92m advocating). But in order to justify or= sell >the poetry and get into those institutional arenas that you mention, you >need the discourse =AD perhaps not you in particular, but others who seem >invested in a form of academic politics that parades as revolutionary >(because it is supposedly technically innovative)." Lumping together the act of discoursing (discussing? discorpsing?) with the content of that discourse ("discourse and the political claims") and then condemning both in one fell swipe -- ATS -- ("I take offense to") is -- I believe -- an unfair and illogical attempt to silence a conversation that is -- as all conversations are (including this one) -- productive. That is to say: condemn whatever you don't like about what people are saying, but leave their freedom to say it alone (with any luck I didn't just do what I'm asking people not to do.) Simplifying poetic (regardless of the political camp it lights its fire in) discourse into something that merely makes poetry something "value added" seems naive and short-sighted. As writers -- okay let me try again -- as human beings, we should be spending a fair amount of time scratching the noggin and thinking "What the hell am I doing and why?" Which -- hopefully -- is the point of talking about poetics. In effect: didn't one of them greek dudes say something about some kind of life that -- in essence -- sucked? So some people say some silly things when they're trying to answer that question -- I once told a cop at a CSN concert that I was "high as a kite" (he should've taken me in for a cliched simile, but he just smiled.) So I don't think it's at all misguided or wrong to think about/write about the social revolutionary aspects of contemporary poetry -- there is value in the process of discussion. Do some people bandwagon? Of course. Part of the reason I'm saying all this is because I think it all relates back to the purpose of poetry. The purpose of poetry (oh shit -- did I really just say that? here of all places? fuggit, here we go.....) -- in my humble opinion -- is to give some people (like us) who communicate best (perhaps not best, just more comfortably) in this form we call poetry (again whichever camp it pulls its wagon to) the chance to add something to "the conversation." "The conversation" being the thing that goes on all the time in which we (humans) try to answer the question/s that I referred to several lines earlier. An individual poem or collection or whatever is not an end that reveals some truth, but a hypothesis that needs to be examined/explored in a public arena. So if that's the point of poetry, then any (and to be honest I do mean any) discourse (whether it be about social revolution, prosody, materialism, existentialism, blah blah blah -- even those guys that said "no emotion without narrative") a poem produces is positive. =20 As far as innovation and "new poetries" (though I think I'm the first to use that phrase in this present discussion despite the quotation marks) I think Harryette Mullen is doing some cool shit (and by "cool shit" I mean really good, exciting, inspiring, interesting, make-your-mind-do-stuff-it-didn't-before stuff.) If -- as some have claimed -- langpo (and it's various descendents) is the attempt to show poetically that language is arbitrary and meaning artificial (a reduction I don't think is accurate, by the way), then I think Mullen is going a step beyond that. To me (and this is based on _S*peRM**K*T_ and _Muse & Drudge_ (I haven't read _Sleeping with the Dictionary_ yet)) Mullen is writing poetry that, instead of stripping language of arbitrary meaning, loads language up so heavily with meaning and in such unusual ways (though often with usual words) that the words become almost unrecognizable, and in becoming unrecognizable allow me to come to a new and different view of the language that I didn't have when I started. I think she does an incredible job of compounding meanings so that multiple/simultaneous/equal readings are possible in her poems. When I say "readings" in the previous sentence I don't mean "interpretations," I mean "readings." I think, though, that accomplishing something like what Mullen does has been the goal of poetry for a very, very long time which leads to another point about innovation and "the conversation." I think Mullen's work is different and exciting (some might call that innovative), but I recognize that she's a part of the web with connections and inspirations that come from all over and lead to all over. So, can we be cautious about deriding/dismissing any (and I do mean "any" again, even Leonard Nimoy's (I collect his poetry books actually (anybody know if there are more than two? (I'd actually recommend them (I'm sort of serious in a poke a hurt tooth kind of way (not in a I wear pointy ears to bed and speak Klingon sort of way)))))) poetries/poetics and instead try to figure out what we can learn from them and how we can make use of their methods to further our own contributions to the conversation? Anyway, those are my too sense. I've been enjoying this discussion as I usually do and I admire David Hess's (though I'm sure I could find a reason to admire David Bromige as well (regardless of if either of them is actually Matt Garite)) willingness to stick his neck where some would say his sight should be and engage the aftermath. G'night. Ken At 01:46 AM 4/13/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Matt, > >Thank you for a very articulate response to my questions. I=92m afraid some= of >the =93exaggerations,=94 as you call them, that are presented in =93Poetry= as >Social Practice,=94 aren=92t very far from the actual arguments that I=92ve= come >across in my reading of =93de-centered writing=94 and =93innovative= practice=94=92s >contemporary supporters. The following quotation that come towards the end >can be found word-for-word in Loss Pequeno Glazier=92s new book =93Digital >Poetics: The Making of E-Poetries=94: > >=93Non-innovative literature can be said to possess a number of= distinguishing >textual features. These can include narrative, plot, anecdotal re-telling= of >human experiences, logical descriptions, chronological sequences of events, >a reliance on factual information, a view of language as a transparent (or >at most, tinted) bearer of meaning, and an attachment to a Modernist >aesthetic. Such texts often base their authority on the foundation of the >certainty of semantic meaning. > >An innovative text treats the making of meaning as problematic.=94 > >I can=92t help but think Mr. Glazier is not paying much attention to the >meaning he makes, the language he uses, a form of discourse he undoubtedly >did not invent himself but learned and adopted in our institutions of= higher >learning. (Isn't more important how these elements -- "factual= information," >narrative, etc -- are used and not whether or not they are used?) Near the >end of his book, Glazier writes that =93it is not necessarily culturally >productive to fell things, traditions or forests for profit or other >reasons.=94 Ignoring for a second the unstated meaning of =91culturally >productive=92 and the standard diplomatic =91not necessarily=92 (I wonder= what his >criteria for felling things is =AD for me it=92s lies), I find the= reduction of >culture (whether poetry or something else) to certain traits =AD or a bunch= of >material or ideology =AD to be not unlike the reduction of people to= certain >traits or material to be exploited for purely economic or =91culturally >productive=92 reasons. Hence the sequence =93The use of multiple =93I=94s= marks >poetry as innovative. People who have dark skin pigment are less than= human=94 >in my post. Hence, again, the sequence =93Nature is immoral. It doesn=92t= even >exist, which is the greatest immorality of all. Don=92t let it inspire you= =94 -- >a detournement of Juliana Spahr=92s comment =93Nature poetry is immoral=94= -- >quoted in the most recent Poetry Project Newsletter. Like Jesse Helms >finding a Mapplethorpe photo disgusting because he finds the subject matter >disgusting, I think Spahr=92s dismissal of Nature poetry =AD which is not= to say >I love (all) Nature poetry =AD implies an easy dismissal of the natural= world >(perhaps for its overwhelming amorality). > I=92m not citing Glazier and Spahr to condemn them. Glazier knows a lot more >about digital poetry and the Web, its history and possibilities, than I do. >It=92s this discourse and the political claims that he and you and others >make, that I take offense to. If this discourse did not exist, I probably >wouldn=92t be opening my mouth. One could simply judge a poem or artwork = =AD >digital, print-based or whatever =AD on its aesthetic and intellectual= merits >(which is not exactly what I=92m advocating). But in order to justify or= sell >the poetry and get into those institutional arenas that you mention, you >need the discourse =AD perhaps not you in particular, but others who seem >invested in a form of academic politics that parades as revolutionary >(because it is supposedly technically innovative). You need "strategically >useful theoretical gestures=94 to displace those who support =93confessiona= l, >"I"-centered modes of discourse=94 in the current =93poetic economy.=94 And= to >what end? What does this academic =93oppositionality=94 have to do with >=93overcom[ing] the exploitations and objectifications which arise from >capitalist modes of production?=94 I=92m afraid not much. You make the leap= from >fighting the confessionalist horde to fighting capitalism and waging class >struggle in a record .0003 seconds. I would agree that =93de-centered= writing=94 >=AD in the aftermath of the 60s and the failure of a united counterculture= -- >was once radical, and perhaps still is despite the reification of the >discourse, if only because it alerts the reader to the objectification and >reification that capitalism injects into all areas of life and experience. >It puts it right in your face without the mediation of an =93I.=94 But it= did >not, and could not, change any =91social conditions.=92 Nor did it present= any >possible solutions to alienation, reification, etc. These are claims your >post seems to be making. > If I want a return to anything it=92s to the moment before poetry split into >=91confessionalist=92 and =91materialist=92 modes. Before the split between >intellect and emotion, thinking and feeling, experience and language. The >binary division you make between =91productive=92 materiality and >=91counter-productive=92 emotion or sincerity is not mine. The poets I cite= at >one point =AD Rimbaud, Blake, Vallejo, Rukeyser, Cesaire, Artaud =AD are >examples of a wide tradition of revolutionary poetry that treats, to use a >Glazierian term, the =93I,=94 authority, expression and emotion as the= fluid >elements they are, above mere egoism or confession, in a =91practice=92= that is >irreducible to any discourse or catty battle between overfed pedagogical >models. Radicality has been codified into non-normativity, alternative >textuality and a reified institutional discourse all of which willfully >=93reduce[] the =91authoring=92 subject to a machine, an alienated,= non-expressive >object of ideology=94 =AD your words, but they sound ironized to me. I= don=92t see >any radical political value in this reduction of possibility. Nor do I see >any revolutionary political agency in the mocking of sincerity, a move= which >almost certainly guarantees marginality, institutional or otherwise (but= who >knows, insincerity loves capitalism and capitalism cares for nothing more >than the next quarter=92s earnings =AD it doesn=92t care for =91subjects=92= , in bulk >or in the singular). If you did not respond to my post, Matt, with some >degree of sincerity, obviously we wouldn=92t be having this discussion. > De-centered or materialist modes haven=92t resulted in the jettisoning of the >ego or self because they still operate in a competitive literary economy >which is becoming commodified as any other. Whether or not a poet uses the >=93I,=94 their subjectivity or =91habitus=92 will still be present. A poet= can use >the =93I=94 not to refer to him or herself or can use means other than the= =93I=94 >to refer to a self, but try all you might to become a faceless discourse >machine (institutional martyr) =AD the dream of every little boy and girl= on >this Earth -- and the truth will eventually out. I don=92t think capitalism >created the =93I,=94 emotions, selves, the ego or the need to be sincere. >Ashbery would seem to be the best example of someone clearly embraced by= the >mainstream but who gets rid of the =93I=94 as a locus of meaning and= expression; >sort of gets rid of the ego and doesn=92t get rid of the self; is= innovative >at times and productive in a machine-like way; writes from his oceanic well >of fancy more than from direct experience; foregrounds the materiality of >the medium but not all the goddamn time; flattens emotion and tone (to a >register of tender melancholia and heady humor) and poses no threat at all >to the cultural status quo in the poetic economy or abroad. Like most >de-centered writing IT=92S HARMLESSLY QUIESCENT =AD a noise that doesn=92t= make >much noise. Then again, I=92d rather read Ashbery more than 95 percent of >what=92s out there just because he writes great, if lullaby-like, poetry,= you >know. It strives for the infinite, even if it=92s just in dreams. It may= not >=93fight for heaven=94(Lorca=92s phrase) but I=92m cool with it every other >Thursday, ten to eleven p.m. Central Standard Time. > I agree with you that some of the lines in =93Poetry as Social Practice=94 >punch low, so to speak, and are not good for much than a laugh, but other >arguments are harder to dismiss. Yes, =93by arranging each of [my]= =91slogans=92 >in a context which deems them ridiculous, [I] end up privileging the exact >opposite of whatever they say.=94 You are right; I think they are= ridiculous. >I don=92t, however, agree that =93by ironizing a statement like =91Don't be >crazy,=92 [I] end up advocating a statement like =91Be crazy.=92=94 What= I=92m >advocating is the questioning of what a discourse of non-normativity >implies, promotes and rejects. What it rejects, as you=92ve done well to= point >out, is a relevance of emotion (the sincere kind) and feeling. Emotions are >considered irrational, but emotions never lie (thus the line =93Mock= sincerity >sincerely=94). Reason and language enable one to lie. So it looks like I=92= m >advocating irrationality as if going mad didn=92t have its own reasons and >causes. I don=92t think I=92m advocating a poetics of anything (yet -- is= that >not being ideological enough?), much less 'experience' but if I had to take >side I'd come on the side of experience and not the decentered, materialist >poetics tractor. I think for those who don=92t have much going on in their >lives, a poetics of anti-experience is a sweet alternative to, and >distillation of, its hectic monotony. > >(Okay, I give up, I am urging that people go crazy!!! Like at raves where >kids and maybe some adults get together and dance to all kinds of techno >music, turning the machine against itself, experiencing the magic of being >alive for a few hours before returning to further drudgery =AD crazy like >that, good crazy!!!) > >Now I am going to do what Kafka did the day WWI broke out: go swimming. > >More later, >Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:06:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: nature poetry & other semantics questions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:40 PM 4/15/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hey everyone, > >I just want to chime in about Juliana Spahr's comment. When I read it in >PPNL it wasn't recognizable to me. That is, she made some similar comments >at her reading at Small Press Traffic in San Francisco last fall, and these >comments did not seem as extreme as that quote looked on the pages of PPNL. >Rather, I thought they were quite thoughtful and as such tended to provoke >thought, questions, etc --- certainly no form of censorship for goodness >sake. > >But while I'm online I must also point to something Spahr herself wrote in >the April/May PPNL. (& kudos to Ange Mlinko for editing such a conversation >stirrer). Towards the end of her essay, "Poetry in a Time of Crisis", Spahr >writes: "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and >the selfish violence of terrorism." My problem with this phrase is a matter >of word choices. I think it is very important to be careful here. The US's >privilege and imperialism are forms of violence, and giving them fancier >monikers does no service to understanding these complex situations. > >Finally, I had a problem with David Perry's third paragraph (still in the >April/May PPNL) in which he writes: "...a postmodern nation of nature that >perversely naturalizes environmental degradation by way of cheap >deconstruction of 'nature' is surely worse than the traditional >romanticization of it."???? Briefly, this phrasing keeps us stuck in an >abstract >(& alors, binaryish) notion that we and are actions are separate from >nature. Perhaps Perry went on to address this, but I stopped there. > >And I'll stop here. Had been thinking on these things anyway as with >Marcella Durand I am planning an event/talk/etc about ecology and poetry for >next season at Small Press Traffic. > >Cheerio, > >Elizabeth Treadwell > >http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:58:27 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: nature poetry & other semantics questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Elizabeth--- Interesting post---- Just two questions for now--- 1) Are you saying the word "selfish" is a "fancier moniker" than the word "violence?" It seems that you are reacting to the word "selfish" here. How do you see the difference between "selfish" and "violence?" (this is one question) 2) As for the assertion about the "romanticization" of nature--- now I have not read the article either so don't know how the term is, er, "deployed" or "used" there, but it seems to that it doesn't necessarily imply that "we and our (sic) actions are separate from nature" insofar as some (if not all) "romantic" views do ground themselves in the idea of the self as nature, and vice versa...But maybe "romanticization" is the wrong word? Because it's too much like "idealization?" rather than say Shelley's "rendering and receiving." So do you think "romanticism" is what is meant by "traditional romanticization" is my question... And, okay, one more---so what alternatives? What of a so-called "primitive" polytheism, with gods and goddesses named after rivers and trees, etc., represented, on one level, as humans, of both sexes, arguing over whether men or women enjoys sex more, etc? Is that "traditional romanticization" too? Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I just want to chime in about Juliana Spahr's comment. When I read it in > PPNL it wasn't recognizable to me. That is, she made some similar comments > at her reading at Small Press Traffic in San Francisco last fall, and these > comments did not seem as extreme as that quote looked on the pages of PPNL. > Rather, I thought they were quite thoughtful and as such tended to provoke > thought, questions, etc --- certainly no form of censorship for goodness > sake. > > But while I'm online I must also point to something Spahr herself wrote in > the April/May PPNL. (& kudos to Ange Mlinko for editing such a conversation > stirrer). Towards the end of her essay, "Poetry in a Time of Crisis", Spahr > writes: "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and > the selfish violence of terrorism." My problem with this phrase is a matter > of word choices. I think it is very important to be careful here. The US's > privilege and imperialism are forms of violence, and giving them fancier > monikers does no service to understanding these complex situations. > > Finally, I had a problem with David Perry's third paragraph (still in the > April/May PPNL) in which he writes: "...a postmodern nation of nature that > perversely naturalizes environmental degradation by way of cheap > deconstruction of 'nature' is surely worse than the traditional > romanticization of it." Briefly, this phrasing keeps us stuck in an abstract > (& alors, binaryish) notion that we and are actions are separate from > nature. Perhaps Perry went on to address this, but I stopped there. > > And I'll stop here. Had been thinking on these things anyway as with > Marcella Durand I am planning an event/talk/etc about ecology and poetry for > next season at Small Press Traffic. > > Cheerio, > > Elizabeth Treadwell > > http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 05:44:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Stickney Subject: Kafka's Stomach, Kafka's Metamorphis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A new story from the German paper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung=20 A Metabolical Metamorphosis By Robert J=FCtte=20 Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung 2000 FRANKFURT. At the age of 24, Franz Kafka had obtained his doctoral = degree in law and was preparing to join the Trieste-based insurance = company Assicurazioni Generali. Following the instructions of his new = employer, on Oct. 1, 1907, the young man underwent a medical = examination. The company physician registered Kafka's state of health as = "good" and noted that Kafka was a "frail but healthy man."=20 The several pages of the medical form also included the routine question = of whether the subject had ever used "mineral waters for a drinking or = bathing cure" or sought treatment in "climatic spas or health resorts." = The answer was negative in both cases. It is impossible to say whether Kafka concealed the truth, or whether = the physician in charge felt an earlier stay at a sanatorium in Dresden = was irrelevant. But Kafka scholars have long known that in the summer of = 1903, after his exhausting law exams, Kafka underwent two weeks of = natural cures at the Weisser Hirsch sanatorium near Dresden to soothe = his jangled nerves.=20 The time at the sanatorium had a lasting effect on the young Kafka, Anna = Pouzarova, the family maid, recalled in her memoirs. After he returned = from Dresden, she had to prepare once a week a cake concocted according = to the recipe provided by Dr. Lahmann, the sanatorium's director. Kafka had probably already become a vegetarian before a subsequent = encounter with Dr. Lahmann's meat-free dietary methods in 1907. As the = grandson of a kosher butcher, this made him a complete failure in his = father's eyes, but he completely renounced eating meat nonetheless, = "first for practical, later for moral reasons," as one biographer put = it. Kafka also tested another approach to food that was all the rage at the = time: Fletcherism. An advertisement published in 1914 in the magazine = Der Naturarzt extolled its virtues: "The method does not teach us what = and how much to eat, but when and how to eat." The U.S. businessman = Horace Fletcher published a bestselling book in 1910 detailing how = attentive chewing had healed his ailments. He described himself as a = physical wreck at the age of 40, having been given up by the medical = establishment. Then he struck on the idea of eating only when he was = really hungry and thoroughly chewing every bite -- up to 100 times.=20 Kafka apparently considered this form of self-healing an effective = solution for his almost chronic stomach and digestive disorders. His = emulation of the American model, however, disturbed the familial peace = once again. In a letter to Felice Bauer dated Nov. 7, 1911, he wrote of = the household's reaction to his Fletcherism: "My father had to hide = behind the newspaper for months during dinner before he got used to it." = Persistent digestive disorders moved Kafka to visit the well-known = Erlenbach sanatorium on Lake Zurich in Switzerland in September 1909. = Writing to his friend Max Brod, Kafka described daily sanatorium life: = Aging Swiss ladies fought constipation and obesity and spent their days = "applying cures like bathing, massage, gymnastics, etc. ... resting in = preparation before the treatments, and then again afterward to recover = from them."=20 The stay at Erlenbach seems to have alleviated his digestive disorder at = least temporarily. A letter to Oskar Baum describes how one illness = after another disappeared. But only a week after his return, digestive = difficulties were again on his mind, as he noted in his diary: = "Illustrator (Alfred) Kubin recommends Regulin as a laxative, a kind of = pounded kelp that swells in the bowels and makes them vibrate, having a = mechanical effect, in contrast to the noxious chemical effect of other = laxatives, which just tear through the faeces, leaving them stuck to the = sides of the intestines." Kafka obviously preferred natural remedies to = conventional medication. At almost the same time Kafka learned about Regulin, he came across a = purveyor of natural methods by the name of Moritz Schnitzer while = traveling on business in northern Bohemia. Schnitzer explained that all = of Kafka's problems stemmed from poisons accumulating in the spine and = warned that they could soon spread to his brain. Similar to antiquity's = theory of humors, Schnitzer advised a diet that accelerated the = expulsion of noxious substances from the body. He also recommended that = Kafka subscribe to the journal he was publishing. No one knows whether Kafka did subscribe, but he seems to have observed = Schnitzer's therapeutic advice for a time, and the two were still in = touch six years after their first meeting. Apparently Schnitzer, like so = many other healers, exuded a charisma that Kafka, along with others, = could not resist. Kafka's most intensive experience with natural healing methods came in = July 1912 during a three-week stay at the Jungborn resort in the Harz = mountains. There he met Adolf Just, who along with Sebastian Kneipp was = one of the era's best-known practitioners of natural healing techniques. = Trained as a bookseller, he had been very delicate as a young man, and, = after trying several cures including Priessnitz bodypacks and Kneipp = water cures, concluded that healing a sick body required not only = natural medicine, but also extensive exposure to nature. "Light and fresh air," he wrote in his manifesto "Return to Nature!" in = 1896, "are the truly vital elements, especially for man, the most = highly-evolved creature to call them home. Day and night, winter and = summer, nature intended man to make his way naked through light and = air."=20 This conviction prompted him and his friends to found a natural health = resort in 1896, naming it Jungborn, or Fountain of Youth. The resort was = spread over an extensive area dotted with "light-air cottages" intended = only for sleeping. During the day, the patients were to stay = out-of-doors and go about "taking in the light-and-air" -- meaning, = strolling in the nude -- "and sunshine."=20 At the very start of his stay, Kafka was acquainted with the principles = of healthy living by the sanatorium's medical director. Kafka's diary = records what he was to do or stop doing: "Prohibits fruit, but notes = that I need not adhere to it. Says I'm an educated man, should attend = his lectures, also available in print, study the material, form an = opinion and act accordingly. From yesterday's lecture: 'Even if the toes = are completely crippled, pulling on one and breathing deeply will = gradually straighten it.'"=20 Kafka praised the silence reigning in the light-and-airy cottages and = liked to breathe the fresh scent of grass surrounding his hut. He was = put off, however, by most patients' wearing few if any clothes, in = keeping with the resort's goal. Many lay naked in the grass or capered = au naturel through wood and meadow. More than once, Kafka was surprised = and shocked when a nude guest appeared in front of his cottage or = crossed his path between the haystacks. Later documents prove that Kafka remained true to natural healing = methods throughout his life. Only reluctantly did he give himself over = to traditional medicine as his tuberculosis reached its final stages. If = Kafka had had the choice, he undoubtedly would have consulted Ernst = Schweninger, Bismarck's personal physician and a medical authority = gifted in finding the golden mean. As Kafka noted: "He integrated = conventional medicine and his own natural methods, a great man who had a = tough time with Bismarck." Kafka would undoubtedly have proven equally = challenging.Apr. 14, 2002 http://www.faz.com/IN/INtemplates/eFAZ/archive.asp?doc=3D{EC137073-699F-4= 2B2-BCDC-4EA52FDEE550}&width=3D800&height=3D572&agt=3Dexplorer&ver=3D4&sv= r=3D4 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 05:58:37 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Elizabeth, > > These revive my faith in analogies and metaphors. > > Murat And in high school students. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:54:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: Story Line Press, A.E.Stallings & Kate Light In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Story Line Press, A.E.Stallings & Kate Light April 16 at 6:45 pm--A.E.Stallings & Kate Light St. Agnes Branch, 444 Amsterdam Ave., NYC FREE April 18 at 7:30 pm--Story Line Press Celebration and Benefit Reading Poets House, 72 Spring Street, 2nd Floor, NYC With Judith Baumel Jeanne Marie Beaumont Pat Falk Annie Finch Veronica Go= los Kate Light Suzanne Nogere Elise Paschen Liam Rector Franklin Reeve David Yezzi and Robert McDowell, founder and editor, Story Line Press Admission $15 / Reservations recommended 780-0800, Ext. 255 A. (Alicia) E. Stallings was born in 1968. She grew up in Decatur, GA, an= d was educated at the University of Georgia and Oxford University in classi= cs. Her poetry has appeared in The Best American Poetry series (1994 & 2000) and has received numerous awards, including a Pushcart Prize (Pushcart Prize Anthology XXII), the 1997 Eunice Tietjens Prize from Poetry, and the thir= d annual James Dickey Prize from Five Points. She also serves as an editor for the Atlanta Review. A finalist for both the Yale Younger Series & Walt Whitman Award, her first poetry collection, Archaic Smile, was awarded th= e 1999 Richard Wilbur Award by Dana Gioia, and is published by the Universi= ty of Evansville Press. She is currently at work on a verse translation of Lucretius' De Rerum Natura for a major publisher. She resides in Athens, Greece with her husband, John Psaropoulos, editor of the Athens News. Kate Light's first collection, The Laws of Falling Bodies, co-winner of the 1997 Nicholas Roerich Prize, was published by Story Line Press. Her poetr= y has appeared in The Paris Review, Janus, Wisconsin Review, The Formalist,= Western Humanities Review, The Christian Science Monitor and Feminist Studies, and was featured on Garrison Keillor's Writer's Almanac. Ms. Lig= ht is a violinist in New York City. Rattapallax Press 532 La Guardia Place Suite 353 New York, NY 10012 USA http://www.rattapallax.com http://www.dialoguepoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:44:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: paula speck Subject: Re: Fwd: Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Elizabeth-- From your title and some later posts, I got the impression that you believe this list comes from high school papers (kinda like the old Art Linklater "Kids Say the Darndest Things" collections). These "analogies and metaphors" come from a regular feature in the Washington Post, the "Style Invitational." Chuck Smith, Joseph Romm, and several of the other names are regular contributors, not high school students, and if any of the others are, it would be coincidental. Probably high school students (I have one in my family) are smarter, wittier, and more hip about the absurdities of everyday language than we give them credit for, but this wouldn't be evidence of it. I did enjoy reading the list, though; thanks for the laughs. Paula Speck >From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Fwd: Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:10:17 -0700 > >Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays > >Her face was a perfect oval, like a circle that had its >two other sides gently compressed by a Thigh Master. >--Sue Lin Chong, Washington > >His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking >alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free. >--Chuck Smith, Woodbridge > >He spoke with the wisdom that can only come from experience, like a Guy who >went blind because he looked at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes >with a pinhole in it and now goes around the country speaking at high >schools about the dangers of looking at a solar eclipse without one of >those >boxes with a pinhole in it. >--Joseph Romm, Washington > >She caught your eye like one of those pointy hook latches that used to >dangle from screen doors and would fly up whenever you banged the door open >again. >--Rich Murphy, Fairfax Station > >The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling >ball wouldn't. >--Russell Beland, Springfield > >McBride fell 12 stories, hitting the pavement like a Hefty bag filled with >vegetable soup. >--Paul Sabourin, Silver Spring > >From the attic came an unearthly howl. The whole scene had an eerie, >surreal >quality, like when you're on vacation in another city and "Jeopardy" comes >on at 7:00 p. m. instead of 7:30. >--Roy Ashley, Washington > >Her hair glistened in the rain like nose hair after a sneeze. >--Chuck Smith, Woodbridge > >Her eyes were like two brown circles with big black dots in the center. >-Russell Beland, Springfield > >Bob was as perplexed as a hacker who means to access T: >flw.quid55328.com\aaakk/ch@ung but gets T: \flw.quidaaakk/ch@ung by >mistake. >--Ken Krattenmaker, Landover Hills > >Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever. >--Unknown > >He was as tall as a six-foot-three-inch tree. >--Jack Bross, Chevy Chase > >The hailstones leaped from the pavement, just like maggots when you fry >them >in hot grease. >--Gary F. Hevel, Silver Spring > >Long separated by cruel fate, the star-crossed lovers >raced across the grassy field toward each other like two freight trains, >one >having left Cleveland at 6:36 p.m. traveling at 55 mph, the other from >Topeka at 4:19 p.m. at a speed of 35 mph. >--Jennifer Hart, Arlington > >The politician was gone but unnoticed, like the period after the Dr. on a >Dr >Pepper can. >--Wayne Goode, Madison, AL > >They lived in a typical suburban neighborhood with picket fences that >resembled Nancy Kerrigan's teeth. >--Paul Kocak, Syracuse NY > >John and Mary had never met. They were like two hummingbirds who had also >never met. >--Russell Beland, Springfield > >The thunder was ominous sounding, much like the sound of a thin sheet of >metal being shaken backstage during the storm scene in a play. >--Barbara Fetherolf, Alexandria > >The red brick wall was the color of a brick-red Crayola crayon. >--Unknown > >He fell for her like his heart was a mob informant and >she was the East River. >--Brian Broadus, Charlottesville > >Even in his last years, Grandpappy had a mind like a steel trap, only one >that had been left out so long, it had rusted shut. >-- Sandra Hull, Arlington > >The door had been forced, as forced as the dialogue during the interview >portion of "Jeopardy! " >--Jean Sorensen, Herndon > >Shots rang out, as shots are wont to do. >--Jerry Pannullo, Kensington > >The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this >plan >just might work. >--Malcolm Fleschner, Arlington > >The young fighter had a hungry look, the kind you get from not eating for a >while. >--Malcolm Fleschner, Arlington > >"Oh, Jason, take me! " she panted, her breasts heaving like a college >freshman on $1-a-beer night. >--Bonnie Speary Devore, Gaithersburg > >He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a >real >duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or >something. >--John Kammer, Herndon > >Her artistic sense was exquisitely refined, like someone who can tell >butter >from I Can't Believe It's Not Butter. >--Barbara Collier, Garrett Park > >She had a deep, throaty, genuine laugh, like that sound a dog makes just >before it throws up. >--Susan Reese, Arlington > >It came down the stairs looking very much like something no one had ever >seen before. >--Marian Carlsson, Lexington > >The knife was as sharp as the tone used by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex. >) >in her first several points of parliamentary procedure made to Rep. Henry >Hyde (R-Ill. ) in the House Judiciary Committee hearings on the impeachment >of President William Jefferson Clinton. >--J. F. Knowles, Springfield > >The ballerina rose gracefully en pointe and extended one slender leg behind >her, like a dog at a fire hydrant. >--Jennifer Hart, Arlington > >The revelation that his marriage of 30 years had disintegrated because of >his wife's infidelity came as a rude shock, like a surcharge at a formerly >surcharge-free ATM. >--Paul J. Kocak, Syracuse > >The dandelion swayed in the gentle breeze like an oscillating electric fan >set on medium. >--Unknown > >It was an American tradition, like fathers chasing kids around with power >tools. >--Brian Broadus, Charlottesville > >He was deeply in love. When she spoke, he thought he heard bells, as if she >were a garbage truck backing up. >--Susan Reese, Arlington > >She was as easy as the "TV Guide" crossword. >--Tom Witte, Gaithersburg > >Her eyes were like limpid pools, only they had forgotten to put in any pH >cleanser. >--Chuck Smith, Woodbridge > >She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was >room-temperature >Canadian beef. >--Brian Broadus, Charlottesville > >She walked into my office like a centipede with 98 >missing legs. >--Jonathan Paul, Garrett Park > >Her voice had that tense, grating quality, like a first-generation thermal >paper fax machine that needed a band tightened. >--Sue Lin Chong, Washington > >It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to the >wall. >--Brian Broadus, Charlottesville > >>www.rockstargames.com >>+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> > >Elizabeth Treadwell > >http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:39:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matthew Garite Subject: Response to Dave Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Dave, Apologies for the unfortunate delay between posts. My web access is only available on weekdays through my place of employment, meaning I didn't have an opportunity to read your various posts until yesterday morning. Thanks again for such an extensive, measured response. This has proven to be a worthwhile exchange of views (from my perspective, at least), and I hope to see it continue. My initial response to your "Poetry as Social Practice" post is at least partially the result of my lack of familiarity with Loss Pequeno Glazier's recent work (as well as the Spahr comment, "Nature is immoral"). Nevertheless, I assume you would agree that Glazier and Spahr are not the only authors whose work your post critiques. You've got bigger fish to fry, correct? As you point out in your reply, you're not citing Glazier and Spahr to condemn "them in particular." Instead, the statements in your post reference a much larger body of work--a specific set of "discourse[s] and political claims" regarding poetic production. It is once again this set of discourses (or at least a number of the claims embodied by these discourses) that I wish to defend. While a number of "slogans" in your post may be ironic word-for-word quotes from Glazier, the bulk of your text still clearly relies upon a tendency to exaggerate, simplify or distort the ideology it seeks to critique. It does this in order to produce its "humorous" effect. Readers derive pleasure from the incongruity between what is said and what is meant. Complex theories are often either pushed to their illogical (contradictory) extremes, or reduced to the simplest of caricatures. (See for instance, "Individualism is anti-social. To look within oneself is apolitical," or "We can only be sure of one thing: The truth is not attainable. All meaning is commodified except the meaning of this statement"). Which isn't to say such caricatures don't exist--I would be the first to admit the ubiquity of "bastardized" theory (which, of course, can sometimes be a good thing). But I feel that you present these caricatures in a way that makes them too distant, too unfamiliar, too easy to brush aside or laugh away. (Speaking of "felled traditions"...). This simplifying, distorting tendency is often how a manifesto tends to operate, and your post is clearly a manifesto of sorts. Or perhaps (more correctly), an "inverted" manifesto, i.e. sloganeering by "other" means. Steven Mentor describes the manifesto as a hybrid, a chimera, a boundary-confusing technology. It combines and confuses (i.e. detournes) popular genres and political discourses, borrowing from critical theory and advertising, serving as would-be control system for the larger social technology it's author hopes to manufacture. Most include original ideas, but their aim is rather simulation, duplication, reproduction--they long to achieve the status of a rhetorical handgun passed out to masses of (online) readers rather than that of a judge's scales. They are monsters of discourse, their de-monstrations reconstructing the audience (and their cultural landscape) in a strange and monstrous light. Your slogans remind me of (not so much aesthetic, but ideological) grotesques--monstrous, distorted representations of the discourse you wish to oppose. By enacting your critique through a series of ironic slogans instead of a rigorous, well-reasoned argument, your post doubles back on itself, performing and becoming that which it attacks. You present us with a manifesto that seeks to topple one regime of discourse in order to replace it with another. So while you point out in your response that you wish to return to a (constructed, imagined) moment before poetry split into "confessionalist" and "materialist" modes, your original post does little to signal or achieve such a return. You write that "the binary division [I] make between 'productive' materiality and 'counter-productive' emotion or sincerity" is not yours, but it certainly is the opposition presented and maintained by your text. Either way, taking issue with the formal merits of your "Poetry as Social Practice" post is not the point of my email. Perhaps I should shift gears here and respond to a number of the points you raise in your later posts. For instance, I found your discussion of "de-centered writing and its failures" to be much more compelling than the inverted slogans in your original post. It is true that I make an unjustifiable leap from "fighting the confessionalist horde to fighting capitalism and waging class struggle," and yet I think such a leap is present at the moment not so much as a sign of personal faults, but of a shared theoretical impasse. Closing the gap between current writing practices and more effective forms of struggle is part of the work that remains to be done. I also agree with you that extended divisions between "confessionalist" and "materialist" modes, intellect and emotion, etc are both undesirable and impossible to sustain. I am currently interested in hearing about how you would define (or theorize, perhaps) terms like "feeling" and "emotion." More importantly, what radical potential do you locate in such terms? Are certain feelings (like anger, disgust, getting "pissed off") more valuable or desirable than others (like sympathy, self-pity, depression)? I read "feeling" and "emotion" to be bodily expressions of desire, and desire is often the place where the demands of capitalism are most viciously inscribed. You write that you "don't think capitalism created the 'I,' emotions, selves, the ego, or the need to be sincere." But surely you would agree that such categories have histories. They are not autonomous, universal bodies, but are instead "effected" by socio-economic factors (which at the current time would include capitalist modes of production). You also write that "emotions never lie," but they certainly betray themselves, and they are certainly not "ours" to "possess." I am therefore hesitant to embrace such terms. Anyway, thanks again for an interesting discussion. Later on, Matt PS: No publications online or off, although I enjoyed your article in Jacket #12, assuming you're the same David Hess. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:55:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" These were the result of a contest held by The Washington Post. Not accidents. LF -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson [mailto:eliztj@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:10 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fwd: Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays Analogies and Metaphors Found in High School Essays Her face was a perfect oval, like a circle that had its two other sides gently compressed by a Thigh Master. --Sue Lin Chong, Washington His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free. --Chuck Smith, Woodbridge He spoke with the wisdom that can only come from experience, like a Guy who went blind because he looked at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it and now goes around the country speaking at high schools about the dangers of looking at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it. --Joseph Romm, Washington She caught your eye like one of those pointy hook latches that used to dangle from screen doors and would fly up whenever you banged the door open again. --Rich Murphy, Fairfax Station The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn't. --Russell Beland, Springfield McBride fell 12 stories, hitting the pavement like a Hefty bag filled with vegetable soup. --Paul Sabourin, Silver Spring From the attic came an unearthly howl. The whole scene had an eerie, surreal quality, like when you're on vacation in another city and "Jeopardy" comes on at 7:00 p. m. instead of 7:30. --Roy Ashley, Washington Her hair glistened in the rain like nose hair after a sneeze. --Chuck Smith, Woodbridge Her eyes were like two brown circles with big black dots in the center. -Russell Beland, Springfield Bob was as perplexed as a hacker who means to access T: flw.quid55328.com\aaakk/ch@ung but gets T: \flw.quidaaakk/ch@ung by mistake. --Ken Krattenmaker, Landover Hills Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever. --Unknown He was as tall as a six-foot-three-inch tree. --Jack Bross, Chevy Chase The hailstones leaped from the pavement, just like maggots when you fry them in hot grease. --Gary F. Hevel, Silver Spring Long separated by cruel fate, the star-crossed lovers raced across the grassy field toward each other like two freight trains, one having left Cleveland at 6:36 p.m. traveling at 55 mph, the other from Topeka at 4:19 p.m. at a speed of 35 mph. --Jennifer Hart, Arlington The politician was gone but unnoticed, like the period after the Dr. on a Dr Pepper can. --Wayne Goode, Madison, AL They lived in a typical suburban neighborhood with picket fences that resembled Nancy Kerrigan's teeth. --Paul Kocak, Syracuse NY John and Mary had never met. They were like two hummingbirds who had also never met. --Russell Beland, Springfield The thunder was ominous sounding, much like the sound of a thin sheet of metal being shaken backstage during the storm scene in a play. --Barbara Fetherolf, Alexandria The red brick wall was the color of a brick-red Crayola crayon. --Unknown He fell for her like his heart was a mob informant and she was the East River. --Brian Broadus, Charlottesville Even in his last years, Grandpappy had a mind like a steel trap, only one that had been left out so long, it had rusted shut. -- Sandra Hull, Arlington The door had been forced, as forced as the dialogue during the interview portion of "Jeopardy! " --Jean Sorensen, Herndon Shots rang out, as shots are wont to do. --Jerry Pannullo, Kensington The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work. --Malcolm Fleschner, Arlington The young fighter had a hungry look, the kind you get from not eating for a while. --Malcolm Fleschner, Arlington "Oh, Jason, take me! " she panted, her breasts heaving like a college freshman on $1-a-beer night. --Bonnie Speary Devore, Gaithersburg He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something. --John Kammer, Herndon Her artistic sense was exquisitely refined, like someone who can tell butter from I Can't Believe It's Not Butter. --Barbara Collier, Garrett Park She had a deep, throaty, genuine laugh, like that sound a dog makes just before it throws up. --Susan Reese, Arlington It came down the stairs looking very much like something no one had ever seen before. --Marian Carlsson, Lexington The knife was as sharp as the tone used by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex. ) in her first several points of parliamentary procedure made to Rep. Henry Hyde (R-Ill. ) in the House Judiciary Committee hearings on the impeachment of President William Jefferson Clinton. --J. F. Knowles, Springfield The ballerina rose gracefully en pointe and extended one slender leg behind her, like a dog at a fire hydrant. --Jennifer Hart, Arlington The revelation that his marriage of 30 years had disintegrated because of his wife's infidelity came as a rude shock, like a surcharge at a formerly surcharge-free ATM. --Paul J. Kocak, Syracuse The dandelion swayed in the gentle breeze like an oscillating electric fan set on medium. --Unknown It was an American tradition, like fathers chasing kids around with power tools. --Brian Broadus, Charlottesville He was deeply in love. When she spoke, he thought he heard bells, as if she were a garbage truck backing up. --Susan Reese, Arlington She was as easy as the "TV Guide" crossword. --Tom Witte, Gaithersburg Her eyes were like limpid pools, only they had forgotten to put in any pH cleanser. --Chuck Smith, Woodbridge She grew on him like she was a colony of E. coli and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. --Brian Broadus, Charlottesville She walked into my office like a centipede with 98 missing legs. --Jonathan Paul, Garrett Park Her voice had that tense, grating quality, like a first-generation thermal paper fax machine that needed a band tightened. --Sue Lin Chong, Washington It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to the wall. --Brian Broadus, Charlottesville >www.rockstargames.com >+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > Elizabeth Treadwell http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:53:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Xcp in NYC 4/19-21 In-Reply-To: <3CB9AA38.7BFCBE3@hawaii.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ****PLEASE POST, EMAIL TO FRIENDS, ATTEND !!***** ******* Friday, April 19 (Brecht Forum) 7:30 pm JOURNAL RELEASE PARTY Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics 10th Issue Celebration (Amiri Baraka, Kamau Brathwaite, Jeff Derksen, May Joseph, Mark Nowak, Juliana Spahr, Edwin Torres, Rodrigo Toscano & Cecilia Vicuna) "Welcome to a Writers' Manual on how to detonate the Master-Axis of Big-Brother Narratives." -Poetry Project Newsletter Join in celebrating the publication of the 10th issue of the Minneapolis-based journal Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics. Amiri Baraka, Kamau Brathwaite, Cecilia Vicuna, May Joseph, Rodrigo Toscano, Juliana Spahr, Edwin Torres, and Jeff Derksen--all contributors to recent issues of Xcp--will join editor Mark Nowak in reading from their works. A complete "Table of Contents" for each issue of Xcp, plus sample writings and much more, are available at . Sliding Scale: $6/$8/$10 ________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Saturday, April 20 10:00 am - Noon WORKSHOP Poetry as (Local) History (Alan Gilbert & Mark Nowak) This workshop will explore the interstices between writing poetry and writing (local) history. Workshop leaders Mark Nowak and Alan Gilbert will discuss the writings of several poets whose work is grounded in an exploration of history (local, regional, etc.). In addition to a bibliography of "Poetry as (Local) History" for further reading and research, each participant will receive a copy of Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics that includes writings on the workshop theme by poet Fred Wah, anthropologist Lila Abu-Lughod, Roger Sanjek's fieldwork in Queens, reviews of Paul Metcalf's Collected Works, and more. The workshop will conclude with a discussion of participants current (or future) projects in this area and various poetic approaches that might be employed in their writing of (local) history as poetry. Alan Gilbert's writings on poetry, art, and politics have appeared in a number of publications, including Afterimage, Boston Review, and Xcp:Cross-Cultural Poetics. Recent poems have appeared in The Baffler and First Intensity. Mark Nowak, author of Revenants, is editor of Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics and co-editor (with Diane Glancy) of Visit Teepee Town: Native Writings After the Detours. Sliding Scale: $6/$8/$10 The Brecht Forum 122 West 27th St. 10th Fl. NYC (Betw. 6th & 7th Aves.) 1,9,N,R to 28th St. F to 23rdSt., PATH to 23rd St, C/E to 23rd St. 212.242.4201 info@brechtforum. www.brechtforum.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Also (FYI), on Sunday, April 21, XCP editor Mark Nowak will be reading with ANNA MOSCHOVAKIS at the Zinc Bar. Readings start at 6:37. Zinc Bar is downstairs at 90 west houston--just off the corner of LaGuardia Place. ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:49:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Strang Subject: 26: a journal of poetry and poetics In-Reply-To: <200204160402.g3G421T12044@cluster1.sfsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" 26: a journal of poetry and poetics a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z ____________________________________________________ Come celebrate the first issue of 26 Magazine! With readings by contributors: George Albon Sarah Anne Cox Chris Daniels Susan Thackrey Sunday April 21st at 5 pm At Canessa Park 708 Montgomery San Francisco, CA $5 Admission. Copies of the magazine will be on sale for $5 (normally $10). Free wine and munchies! The editors of 26 are Avery E.D. Burns Rusty Morrison Joseph Noble Elizabeth Robinson Brian Srang ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:46:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Douglas Messerli Subject: Messerli and Vangelisti appearing at the Italian Cultural Institute in LA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday, April 30, 2002 (7:30 p.m.) Douglas Messerli and Paul Vangelisti will celebrate their new books published by the Italian publisher ML & NLF. Messerli's book, Bow Down, is a new collection of poetry written in collaboration with the artist John Baldessari. Several of the poems in the book refer specifically to Baldessari's art, and John's collages = appear in the book. In this collection, Messerli also wrote through the poetry = of several Italian poets in translation. Dedicated to Amelia Rosselli, the collection was written specifically for this bi-lingual publication. = Messerli will read several of the poems from this volume. Vangelisti's new book is Tremor and Precision: An Annotated Bibliography with an introduction by Luigi Ballerini. He will speak of his poetic = career. The Italian Cultural Institute is near the UCLA campus at 1023 Hilgard Avenue, Los Angeles, 90024. Tel: 310-443-3250. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:49:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lost Blazier MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/15/02 9:29:16 AM, ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU writes: << Hi Bill, I was reminded last night about my initial anger over what I thought Loss had said. I agree that Loss is using the wrong phrase to describe something neat about the format a text appears, but innovative and non.innovative are obscuring words which hurt his message. And I most wholly agree that the poet will never out mode self for all the reasons mentioned. Best, Geoffrey >> Hi Geoff. I'm thinking of the Lost Generation whose working principle was "anything goes." So Stein and Hemingway, as radically different methodologies, were nevertheless both innovative and communicating with each other. And they drank together. Ha! Ginsberg and Lamatia were likewise wedded to different approaches, but promoted each other. So I'm disheartened at times by the attitudes of some: "S/he works with narrative and lyric" or "This stuff is inscrutable" so it's out. Wrongheaded in my view. There is more than one way to innovate. Some of us stress surfaces, some interiors. We should appreciate each other since between all of us we're covering the bases. The goal, for me, is to do something that everyone else isn't doing, or hasn't done for a while. But that's just me. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:50:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: nature poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/15/02 10:32:05 AM, fargas-laura@DOL.GOV writes: << Juliana Spohr wrote: >>> More specifically, I remember saying that nature poetry is immoral because it shows the bird but not the bulldozer that is threatening the bird's habitat. Not that radical a position. Not based on disgust of nature but rather on respect for it. I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. >>> Gee whiz, Juliana. That's a lot of freight for a little flower poem to haul. O passion flower thou art sick? LF >> You said it. Sheesh! Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:56:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: M L Weber Subject: seeking erotica Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed www.SugarMule.com is looking for literary erotica (poetry and prose) ------------------------------------ Online now - issue 10 - "on the road" Poetry Pierre Joris CANTO DIURNO #2 Karl Young from Milestones Prose Paul Beckman Three pieces Andrei Codrescu Road Kill Shawn Davis Shakedown Paul Alan Fahey A Solitary Sound Herbert Foster Kaufman My Last Run John J. Maguire The Former Traveller Rochelle Ratner Popping Seaweed Wayne Scheer Road Trip Lawrence Upton Hesperides Harriet Zinnes Without Any Pressing Need _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:01:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: nature poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are only a few things I remember about Hawai'i (spent a short amount of time there...Dad grew up there, tho, & still goes back frequently)...one of which is stories about the introduction of the mongoose (to, I think, control snake problems...tho if I'm wrong on that, please correct me) to the islands, & the resulting destruction that introduction had to the native birds, etc... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:50 PM Subject: Re: nature poetry > In a message dated 4/15/02 10:32:05 AM, fargas-laura@DOL.GOV writes: > > << Juliana Spohr wrote: > > > >>> More specifically, I remember saying that nature poetry is immoral > > because it shows the bird but not the bulldozer that is threatening the > > bird's habitat. Not that radical a position. Not based on disgust of > > nature but rather on respect for it. > > > I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > > beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > > huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and > > showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > > political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > > plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > > and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and > > clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the > > ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. >>> > > > > > Gee whiz, Juliana. That's a lot of freight for a little flower poem to > > haul. O passion flower thou art sick? > > > LF > > >> > > You said it. Sheesh! Best, Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > KojaPress.com > Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:16:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: IN PARTS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed IN PARTS A Project by Richard Tuttle Texts by Charles Bernstein and Ingrid Schaffner. In *In Parts: 1998-2001*, Richard Tuttle draws on 13 discrete bodies of work dating from 1998 to the present. Fully illustrated catalogue and designed in collaboration with the Purtill Family Business, this book includes an essay by Ingrid Schaffner, Senior Adjunct Curator at the Institute of Contemporary Art, and a long serial poem in 13 parts by Charles Bernstein in collaboration with Tuttle. PUBLISHED BY: Institute of Contemporary Art, University of Pennsylvania Paperback, 9.5 x 8 in. / 96 pgs / 80 color and 20 b&w -- $25 ISBN: 0884540987 2002 Distribute by DAP -- http://store.yahoo.com/artbook/0884540987.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:19:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: little flower poems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM > >In a message dated 4/15/02 10:32:05 AM, fargas-laura@DOL.GOV writes: >> >>Juliana Spahr wrote: >>> >>>I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the >>>beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka >>>huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and >>>showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain >>>political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the >>>plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species >>>and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and >>>clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the >>>ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. >> >>Gee whiz, Juliana. That's a lot of freight for a little flower poem to >>haul. O passion flower thou art sick? >> >> LF > >You said it. Sheesh! Best, Bill "Sheesh" seems very dismissive and uncritical. I think Laura's comment, however it was intended, points to a real heroic undertaking on the part of Juliana's "little flower poem." The little flower poem that could! Why shouldn't little flower poems haul big freight? Isn't that one of the tests of poetic strength--the ability to stretch verbal/semantic sinews past a reasonable limit? For that matter, Blake's poem is itself an example of such overcharged signifying duty. More to the point, Juliana is demanding that even the most delicate petal-soft lyric embody a social and historical awareness, in whatever way. If her specificity about the particular progress of the passion flower sounds ridiculous to some ears, that ridiculousness is an inversion of a much more serious ridiculousness on the other extreme: that of pretending isolated aesthetic expressions can be oblivious to the specific material conditions of REALITY. To brush this stance aside as "politically correct" or whatever is just to affect glibly fashionable "incorrectness." More power to flower poems! Kasey ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:32:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cadaly Subject: Re: little flower poems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The passion flower (passion fruit juice used in Hi-C!) is readily symbolic, and this is part of its fascination -- it was used by missionaries to illustrate Christianity (like the dogwood blossom and the sand dollar. the undercurrent of meaning being that nature is imbued with particular religious meanings) because of its number of petals, etc. and, we can see now, by its behavior outside if its ecosystem. Grows wild in my LA neighborhood on cyclone fencing, from no apparent soil, all one subspecies, so probably originally from one vine in the neighborhood. Be well, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:41:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: little flower poems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here, here! I second Kasey--I think Juliana's comments are a very timely and smart way to think about nature poetry in light of the environmental issues we know about now. I feel like she's more advocating for a new kind of nature poetry--one of responsibility and context--rather than decrying nature poetry overall. And as she said, this all comes from a true concern about nature, not a dismissal of it. I used to love ladybugs as a kid, and ever since they have reminded me of my Ohio childhood, wandering through sunflower fields, but lately my house has been invaded by them, because apparently some kind of plant which is not supposed to be in this country brought with it a particularly persistent species of Asian ladybug that comes into the house and doens't leave. It's disturbing, both personally and politically. And any reference to ladybugs in a poem from here on out will be forever affected by the hybridization/globalization/suburban sprawl issues this situation evokes. Arielle --- "K.Silem Mohammad" wrote: > >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM > > > > More to the point, Juliana is demanding that even > the most delicate > petal-soft lyric embody a social and historical > awareness, in whatever way. > If her specificity about the particular progress of > the passion flower > sounds ridiculous to some ears, that ridiculousness > is an inversion of a > much more serious ridiculousness on the other > extreme: that of pretending > isolated aesthetic expressions can be oblivious to > the specific material > conditions of REALITY. To brush this stance aside > as "politically correct" > or whatever is just to affect glibly fashionable > "incorrectness." > > More power to flower poems! > > Kasey > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:56:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: little flower poems In-Reply-To: <20020416184113.23509.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > and > any reference to ladybugs in a poem from here on out > will be forever affected by the > hybridization/globalization/suburban sprawl issues > this situation evokes. Fantastic! That's good hermeneutical perspective. We should have a ladybug poem from Arielle. I encountered the Asian strain this weekend in Iowa. They're orange and slightly longer, and lurk in shadows. My grandma laments their presence in her home, but she doesn't swat them, just carries them outside on books or junk mail or a pancake flipper or whatever's at hand. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:09:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: little flower poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to add to what Kasey has said by saying that for a poet, in a process not so unlike the scientist's, the connections between nature and poetry -- like all connections -- are both discovered and created. What is metaphor -- what is a poem -- but the linking of disparate images and ideas, making unexpected, unpredictable, and we hope viable (perhaps powerful) fusions. That chaos is at the heart of nature is not a shock to poets, however, as it was, until recently, to scientists. The side of nature that doesn't follow old "rules" -- the erratic, random, discontinuous side -- is the side that seems to interest poets most. To coax out a description seems to be one of one path of poetry's primary delights throughout the ages: that framing of experience so that perception, even a fleeting one, gives the illusion of sense, pattern... something shaped. Been re-reading a lot of work along these lines lately: Clare (journal writings on wildflowers), Goethe's "Metamorphosis of Plants", etc., and am coming more and more to believe that annotations (poetry) are a necessary feedback to nature's randomness and dissipation, yes. Gerald Schwartz schwartzgk@msn.com > >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM > > > >In a message dated 4/15/02 10:32:05 AM, fargas-laura@DOL.GOV writes: > >> > >>Juliana Spahr wrote: > >>> > >>>I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > >>>beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > >>>huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and > >>>showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > >>>political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > >>>plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > >>>and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and > >>>clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the > >>>ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. > >> > >>Gee whiz, Juliana. That's a lot of freight for a little flower poem to > >>haul. O passion flower thou art sick? > >> > >> LF > > > >You said it. Sheesh! Best, Bill > > "Sheesh" seems very dismissive and uncritical. I think Laura's comment, > however it was intended, points to a real heroic undertaking on the part of > Juliana's "little flower poem." The little flower poem that could! Why > shouldn't little flower poems haul big freight? Isn't that one of the tests > of poetic strength--the ability to stretch verbal/semantic sinews past a > reasonable limit? For that matter, Blake's poem is itself an example of > such overcharged signifying duty. > > More to the point, Juliana is demanding that even the most delicate > petal-soft lyric embody a social and historical awareness, in whatever way. > If her specificity about the particular progress of the passion flower > sounds ridiculous to some ears, that ridiculousness is an inversion of a > much more serious ridiculousness on the other extreme: that of pretending > isolated aesthetic expressions can be oblivious to the specific material > conditions of REALITY. To brush this stance aside as "politically correct" > or whatever is just to affect glibly fashionable "incorrectness." > > More power to flower poems! > > Kasey > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > K. Silem Mohammad > Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit > University of California Santa Cruz > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:12:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: little flower poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...slso the single red/black spot in the center of Queen Anne's Lace flower (Wild Carrot), lored to be a single drop of the blood of Jesus... Gerald ----- Original Message ----- From: "cadaly" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 2:32 PM Subject: Re: little flower poems > The passion flower (passion fruit juice used in Hi-C!) is readily symbolic, > and this is part of its fascination -- it was used by missionaries to > illustrate Christianity (like the dogwood blossom and the sand dollar. the > undercurrent of meaning being that nature is imbued with particular > religious meanings) because of its number of petals, etc. and, we can see > now, by its behavior outside if its ecosystem. > > Grows wild in my LA neighborhood on cyclone fencing, from no apparent soil, > all one subspecies, so probably originally from one vine in the > neighborhood. > > Be well, > Catherine Daly > cadaly@pacbell.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:18:30 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: poetry film MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT hi all, this came to me through another list. does anyone know anything about this film? thanks, kevin Subject: [mgp] HFX-F.O.C.U.S. This weeks Film will Be 'Slam' staring poet Saul Williams. It is the story of a young man's journey through the prison system of Washington State and his use of slam poetry to resist the de-humanization that goes hand in glove with being jailed. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:56:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wright Laura E Subject: Henning, Friedman read in Boulder April 19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII T h e L e f t H a n d R e a d i n g S e r i e s p r o u d l y p r e s e n t s a r e a d i n g f e a t u r i n g ************************************* * * * poet/novelist * * B A R B A R A H E N N I N G * * * * & * * * * poet * * M I C H A E L F R I E D M A N * * * ************************************* F R I D A Y, A P R I L 1 9 t h 8 p. m. a t L E F T H A N D B O O K S & R E C O R D S 1200 Pearl Street #10, Boulder, Colorado (just east of Broadway, downstairs from street level) The reading is open to the public. Donations are requested. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ BARBARA HENNING's most recent book is _In Between_, published by Spectacular Diseases in Peterborough, England. This book is a collection of prose poems, constructed with syntactical and narrative opposites and middles. It is a playful/serious examination of the pleasures and losses of safe living as opposed to the thrill and danger of following a path of desire. A novel, _Black Lace_, and a collection of poems, _Detective Sentences_, have also recently been released from Spuyten Duyvil. Her other books of poetry include _Me & My Dog_ (Poetry New York, 1999), _Love Makes Thinking Dark_ (United Artists, 1995), _The Passion of Signs_ (Leave Books, 1994), and _Smoking in the Twilight Bar_ (United Artists, 1988). Artist books and collaborations include _Tha Kita Thaka_ (2000), _How to Read and Write in the Dark_ (with Miranda Maher, 1996), and _Words and Pictures_ (with Sally Young, 1996). Poems have been published in many magazines, including Talisman, The World, How2, First Intensity, Lingo, Poetry International, Lacanian Ink, Poetry New York, Key Satch(el), The Paris Review, Chain, Hambone, Dispatch Detroit, among others. Poems are upcoming in A Detroit Anthology and The Gertrude Stein Awards for Innovative American Poetry. Essays and reviews by Ms. Henning have been published in corch (England), Talisman: A Journal of Contemporary Poetry and Poetics, The World, The Poetry Project Newsletter, Taproot, Chain, College English and Modern Fiction Studies. Short stories have been published in Fiction International and The Widener Review ("Dust" was nominated for a Pushcart award). During the early nineties, Ms. Henning was the editor of Long News in the Short Century, a journal of art and writing. Ms. Henning grew up in a working class suburb of Detroit; currently she lives in the East Village. She is the editor of Long News Books, and an Associate Professor of English at Long Island University in Brooklyn where she teaches poetry workshops, composition and American literature. MICHAEL FRIEDMAN is the author of five books of poetry, the most recent of which are _Species_ (The Figures, 2000) and _Arts & Letters_, with drawings by Duncan Hannah (The Figures, 1996). He has edited the influential journal Shiny since 1986. About Species, Publishers Weekly has written: "Wielding the prose poem as if no other vehicle for wit and plotless storytelling could possibly suffice, Friedman serves up sixty-eight rectilinear versions of soulful stasis (Beckett as upwardly mobile consumer, for example).... " Rain Taxi writes, "Marked by smooth, sophisticated surfaces and wry, tongue-in-cheek juxtapositions, Friedman's prose has an uncanny power to startle.... Signifiers are constantly slipping out of gear; the resulting change in tempo gives many of these poems a sharp, low-key frisson...." /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ There will be a short OPEN READING immediately before the featured readings. Sign up for the Open Reading will take place promptly at 8:00 p.m. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ The LEFT HAND READING SERIES is an independent series presenting readings of original literary works by emerging and established writers. Founded in 1996, the series is now curated by poets MARK DuCHARME and LAURA WRIGHT. Readings in the series are presented monthly. Upcoming events in the series include: FRIDAY, MAY 17th: KASS FLEISHER & LAURA WRIGHT For more information about the Left Hand Reading Series, call (303) 938-9346 or (303) 443-3685. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:19:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: little flower poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM > >In a message dated 4/15/02 10:32:05 AM, fargas-laura@DOL.GOV writes: >> >>Juliana Spahr wrote: >>> >>>I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the >>>beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka >>>huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and >>>showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain >>>political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the >>>plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species >>>and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and >>>clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the >>>ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. >> >>Gee whiz, Juliana. That's a lot of freight for a little flower poem to >>haul. O passion flower thou art sick? >> >> LF > >You said it. Sheesh! Best, Bill "Sheesh" seems very dismissive and uncritical. >>I think Laura's comment, however it was intended, points to a real heroic undertaking on the part of Juliana's "little flower poem." The little flower poem that could! Why shouldn't little flower poems haul big freight? Isn't that one of the tests of poetic strength--the ability to stretch verbal/semantic sinews past a reasonable limit? For that matter, Blake's poem is itself an example of such overcharged signifying duty. More to the point, Juliana is demanding that even the most delicate petal-soft lyric embody a social and historical awareness, in whatever way. If her specificity about the particular progress of the passion flower sounds ridiculous to some ears, that ridiculousness is an inversion of a much more serious ridiculousness on the other extreme: that of pretending isolated aesthetic expressions can be oblivious to the specific material conditions of REALITY. To brush this stance aside as "politically correct" or whatever is just to affect glibly fashionable "incorrectness." More power to flower poems! Kasey >> The overcharged signifying quality of Blake's poem was exactly what I had in mind. For at least 1000 years, flower poetry (and painting) in Western culture has been put into the service of both ruling and rebeling ideologies. I have a strong distaste for poetry being consciously yoked to the service of ideology. I'm also perfectly aware, though, that that sort of willful naivete leads to art which thinks it is enacting innocence and actually is quietly putting itself into the service of some status quo. Nevertheless, the distaste gets first -- and prose -- utterance. A declaration that any nature or anti-nature poem one writes will be put to the service of religious, anti-religious, colonial, post-colonial, or anti-colonial ideology just naturally raises my hackles, and out comes a reflexive joke. Such a project also strikes me as having its own kind of naivete. But then, whatever else Blake's poem may be (and isn't it fabulously malleable?), it endures, it sticks in the mind, it retains power. So if someone can write the equivalent of O passion flower thou art sick, then the freight will get hauled. I didn't say it was freight with no value. As to Kasey's second point, I think in my personal naivete, I am going to let myself cling to the belief that isolated aesthetic expressions, oblivious of the specific material *political/ideological* conditions of REALITY (scarier in caps?) are possible. If nothing else, long after all or nearly all the human carriers of a culture are gone, and the literature is down to its wind-dried bones, a poem about a flower can wind up being nearly as beautiful, amoral, and asignificant as nature itself (das bing cherry an sich) is. It's hard for me to imagine, for example, that a classical Chinese civil servant could countenance my existence for any number of racial, gender, political, and social reasons (and vice versa) but what Li Po [Li Bai] or Tu Fu has to say about plum blossoms retains great attraction and usefulness for me. Laura Fargas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:45:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Mullen Subject: Nature Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jennifer, I'm interested by Spahr's desire to see into the history of a particular as well as to trace a interconnectedness which seems real to me. (Did you look at her poem? I like the tangle of syntax in repeated phrasings.) A mindfulness of facts (cf her example of the "pretty" bush which is choking the native foliage & was brought as part of a human history of colonizing) seems to ground questions of 'othering' in a political realm human and more-than-human uneasily share...--and can't help sharing as the area we are speaking of is confined to representation (so the bush is seen from the bulldozer, and the bird is already, we might say, in hand in some ways). If only the intentionalities didn't touch--but won't the reality of the arctic wilderness be (in part) the damage we do to it? It isn't so much about castigating the bulldozer though--I certainly agree with you there! How dull would that be in a poem (or even a letter to a senator)?: what we want saved has to be established or recognized as value, as worth saving (& so celebrated in its unique existence, as you say). But the act of recognition is complicated, politically.... L --- Jennifer Lamb wrote: > Spahr's complaint > "about a specific sort of nature poetry that > isolates a certain plant or > animal for heroic purposes w/o addressing the > history of these plants > and animals and their relations with various sorts > of humans and/or how > these plants and animals are seriously at risk" > referring back to the earlier statement that nature > poetry is im/amoral is > provocative . . . i think the category "nature > poetry" is seriously outdated > and laden with significations that do not begin to > encompass the > interactions of the more-than-human and the human > worlds that are present in > so much contemporary poetry . . . here I think of > the poets currently on my > mind -- Joanna Klink, the J. L. Jacobs you lent me, > Matthew Cooperman -- > none of whom I would call "nature poets" but perhaps > poets who explore > more-than-human connections . . .and in this sense, > Spahr's remarks about > considering the history and/or colonization of > plants and animals raises my > hackles a bit because by focusing on the > (human-recorded and affected) > history and relations of more-than-human beings > continues what I would call > a blind tradition of "othering". It's not > isolationary to foreground a > more-than-human being but rather, I would say, an > act of attentiveness. > Perhaps by according a more-than-human being an > equal place in poetry, we > ask a reader to consider that more-than-human > being's unique existence and > intentionality, which I would think is far more > effective a political > maneuver than castigating the bulldozer that > threatens it. After all, until > we open to and connect with that more-than-human > being's (there has got to > be a better term) existence, how can we argue that > the bulldozer is bad?? > (that's not sounding right) Is it Said that argues > that the colonizer > dehumanizes the colonized? Well, anyway, in this > case, the colonizers have > denied the is-ness of the more-than-human being . . > . and so, how better to > call attention to that is-ness than to foreground > the bird rather than the > bulldozer? > jen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:35:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: little flower poems and self-plug for tonight's reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Laura, I concede that you didn't say it was freight with no value. It was more Bill's "sheesh" than your original remark that set me off. Your question, in fact ("isn't that a lot of freight for one little flower poem to haul?"), strikes me as a very useful one when treated as non-rhetorical, which I assume to some extent you intended. Maybe it _is_ a lot of freight, in which case we can debate what exactly the limits of flower-poem pulling-power are, and what the limits are in the other direction (how little freight can the poem get away with hauling without being a slacker?), and under what circumstances, and how this figures into formal arrangement, etc. etc. I agree that poems like Li Po's which have been subjected to the distancing effects of history are very powerful, and even that they provide useful models for contemporary practice. As with everything else, the key for me is context. In the case of Li Po, there's a certain _absence_ of context (or I'm _guessing_ there is--actually, I know diddly about Li Po other than from a few Pound translations), which I think is responsible for a great deal of the poem's effectiveness; it's as though a ghost were speaking about flowers in a gone space so lost to historical recovery that it's almost hyper-real. The problem for me arises when contemporary poets try to simulate that sense of timelessness purely for the sake of aesthetic prettiness or "atmosphere." I mean, we're talking about 1980's _Poetry Magazine_ / ridiculed-by-Marjorie-Perloff / out-working-in-my-garden poetry here, which, unfortunately, is still a very pervasive presence in today's poetic culture. As you say, it may be the case that "isolated aesthetic expressions, oblivious of the specific material *political/ideological* conditions of REALITY (scarier in caps?) are possible," but I don't think they're possible when there is blatant REPRESSION (hmm, I think caps _are_ scarier) of such conditions going on in the poet's process of expression. I suspect part of Juliana's point is that to write pretty, harmless poems about passion flowers in Hawaii, especially if you're an educated, environmentally aware adult, requires a certain degree of denial and _willful_ naivete. There's another issue here, which I don't want to get into too far, since I don't have time, but maybe I can just suggest where it might lead: when Blake writes about a rose, there are all sorts of shared literary conventions / allusions / mythopoeic associations in place that are part of what used to make up a coherent poetic culture in the English tradition, so that when a poet mentions a rose, h/she is also mentioning a whole bunch of other things all wadded up in a big palimpsestic tissue. I don't know if we have anything that articulated and recognizeable in contemporary poetic culture, which is of course both a good and a bad thing. But my main point here is that these days when someone writes a poem about a flower, it's more likely to be exactly that: just about a flower, and not about a rich symbolic web of parareferences. This leaves the door open for rampant self-indulgent aestheticism and decorative vacuity. In the absence of that old-school symbolic web, one logical alternative is for the poet to invoke that reality we were talking about. Or if not that reality, then _something_ other than an idealized notion of art-for-art's-sake, for heaven's sake. OK, I really have to run now, [WARNING: SHAMELESS SELF-PROMOTION FOLLOWS] because in a couple hours I'm off to read at New Langton Arts in SF with Summi Kaipa for the Diaspora Poetics reading series at 8:00 tonight (tickets $6; $4 for members, students, and seniors), but I think this is a very interesting discussion. Maybe I'll try my hand at that Blakean passion-flower poem myself soon. Kasey >From: Fargas Laura >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: little flower poems >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:19:47 -0400 > > >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM > > > >In a message dated 4/15/02 10:32:05 AM, fargas-laura@DOL.GOV writes: > >> > >>Juliana Spahr wrote: > >>> > >>>I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > >>>beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > >>>huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil >and > >>>showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > >>>political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > >>>plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > >>>and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and > >>>clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the > >>>ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. > >> > >>Gee whiz, Juliana. That's a lot of freight for a little flower poem to > >>haul. O passion flower thou art sick? > >> > >> LF > > > >You said it. Sheesh! Best, Bill > >"Sheesh" seems very dismissive and uncritical. > > >>I think Laura's comment, >however it was intended, points to a real heroic undertaking on the part of >Juliana's "little flower poem." The little flower poem that could! Why >shouldn't little flower poems haul big freight? Isn't that one of the >tests >of poetic strength--the ability to stretch verbal/semantic sinews past a >reasonable limit? For that matter, Blake's poem is itself an example of >such overcharged signifying duty. > > >More to the point, Juliana is demanding that even the most delicate >petal-soft lyric embody a social and historical awareness, in whatever way. >If her specificity about the particular progress of the passion flower >sounds ridiculous to some ears, that ridiculousness is an inversion of a >much more serious ridiculousness on the other extreme: that of pretending >isolated aesthetic expressions can be oblivious to the specific material >conditions of REALITY. To brush this stance aside as "politically correct" >or whatever is just to affect glibly fashionable "incorrectness." > >More power to flower poems! > > Kasey >> > > > The overcharged signifying quality of Blake's poem was exactly what I >had >in mind. For at least 1000 years, flower poetry (and painting) in Western >culture has been put into the service of both ruling and rebeling >ideologies. I have a strong distaste for poetry being consciously yoked to >the service of ideology. I'm also perfectly aware, though, that that sort >of willful naivete leads to art which thinks it is enacting innocence and >actually is quietly putting itself into the service of some status quo. >Nevertheless, the distaste gets first -- and prose -- utterance. A >declaration that any nature or anti-nature poem one writes will be put to >the service of religious, anti-religious, colonial, post-colonial, or >anti-colonial ideology just naturally raises my hackles, and out comes a >reflexive joke. Such a project also strikes me as having its own kind of >naivete. But then, whatever else Blake's poem may be (and isn't it >fabulously malleable?), it endures, it sticks in the mind, it retains >power. >So if someone can write the equivalent of O passion flower thou art sick, >then the freight will get hauled. I didn't say it was freight with no >value. > > As to Kasey's second point, I think in my personal naivete, I am going >to >let myself cling to the belief that isolated aesthetic expressions, >oblivious of the specific material *political/ideological* conditions of >REALITY (scarier in caps?) are possible. If nothing else, long after all >or nearly all the human carriers of a culture are gone, and the literature >is down to its wind-dried bones, a poem about a flower can wind up being >nearly as beautiful, amoral, and asignificant as nature itself (das bing >cherry an sich) is. It's hard for me to imagine, for example, that a >classical Chinese civil servant could countenance my existence for any >number of racial, gender, political, and social reasons (and vice versa) >but >what Li Po [Li Bai] or Tu Fu has to say about plum blossoms retains great >attraction and usefulness for me. > > Laura Fargas ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:58:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: lighthouse by M. Mara-Ann -- Atelos Book Release Reading & Party in San Francisco In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To celebrate the publication of "lighthouse" by M. Mara-Ann, Atelos is hosting a book release reading/party Wednesday, April 17th at The Lab in San Francisco's Mission District. "lighthouse" is Number 11 in a series of 50 and is Mara's first full-length book of poetry. Please come and help us celebrate! When: Wednesday, April 17th @ 8pm Where: The Lab @ 2948-16th Street (between Mission & South Van Ness) (415) 864-8855 Cost: $5-$8 sliding scale Mara will read selections from "lighthouse" with a party to follow. Party will feature wine & cheese and dj databass playing selections from Mara's and his music/poetry CD collaboration "Water Rights": http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/databass2 Atelos book information: http://www.atelos.org/lighthouse.htm The Lab promo: http://www.thelab.org/archive02/mara.htm an intended relation to the sun the faculty of truth a period gathered selectively embracing instances of sense throughout the promise of vision a signature of hope an omission of loss the pledged guardian of shared purpose and the unavoidable marking of reason -- "lighthouse" (part three, entrance, IV.) * * * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:46:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sina Queyras Subject: Re: little flower poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is my first posting--I couldn't help chime in with all this talk about nature poetry. I was surprised to find Spahr's comments dismissed. It seems to me that language poetry in particular might be invested in exploring not simply the signifying "flower" but all the layers of meaning. This responsibility in nature poetry is it seems to me, long overdue. I've often wondered where Mary Oliver finds such pristine walks, for instance, and why there was never any pressing danger in her work--over romanticized as it is. Of course that's another problem altogether, but as Arielle points out in her response below, a ladybug is not just a ladybug. Cheers, Sina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Greenberg" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 2:41 PM Subject: Re: little flower poems > Here, here! I second Kasey--I think Juliana's > comments are a very timely and smart way to think > about nature poetry in light of the environmental > issues we know about now. I feel like she's more > advocating for a new kind of nature poetry--one of > responsibility and context--rather than decrying > nature poetry overall. And as she said, this all > comes from a true concern about nature, not a > dismissal of it. > > I used to love ladybugs as a kid, and ever since they > have reminded me of my Ohio childhood, wandering > through sunflower fields, but lately my house has been > invaded by them, because apparently some kind of plant > which is not supposed to be in this country brought > with it a particularly persistent species of Asian > ladybug that comes into the house and doens't leave. > It's disturbing, both personally and politically. And > any reference to ladybugs in a poem from here on out > will be forever affected by the > hybridization/globalization/suburban sprawl issues > this situation evokes. > > Arielle > > --- "K.Silem Mohammad" wrote: > > >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM > > > > > > > More to the point, Juliana is demanding that even > > the most delicate > > petal-soft lyric embody a social and historical > > awareness, in whatever way. > > If her specificity about the particular progress of > > the passion flower > > sounds ridiculous to some ears, that ridiculousness > > is an inversion of a > > much more serious ridiculousness on the other > > extreme: that of pretending > > isolated aesthetic expressions can be oblivious to > > the specific material > > conditions of REALITY. To brush this stance aside > > as "politically correct" > > or whatever is just to affect glibly fashionable > > "incorrectness." > > > > More power to flower poems! > > > > Kasey > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:29:43 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: nature poetry The Genius in a Suit Visits Hawai MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sparring with and Listers. Or one could take an extreme amoral or nihilist position ( which I dont but I could take it as an "experiment") and write a great poem about how marvelous/wondrous/horrific/ghastly/troubling/exhilirating was the destruction of the Trade Towers (especially as I saw that beautiful/horrifying event which would be as valid as your own poem (which I admire a lot) which is based on the struggle between the wasp (ichenuenon) and the tarantula..by the way the wasps: each variety seeks out a particular species of tarantula or trapdoor spider: detail I picked up): so we can see New York (or Pittsburgh or Penrose in Auckland NZ) as a part of nature: in fact what thing is not?...one of the trouble with "nature poems" ( the gooey gooey pretty pretty poems about flowers with allthe oohing and ahhing) as against say Willams C Williams poems such as Spring and All is that they arbitrarily divide flowers from plastic factories, Penrose (Industrial area of Auckland) from eg Fiordland...but even in Wordsworth there is his poem "of Westminster Bridge" re London and he was very aware of the "dark" sides of nature. Wilimiams was no grovellor: he'd probably write a tough if humane poem about nature and the complexities of S11 or the Israel situation: but as to 747 poets: recal its wuite possible for a millionnaire to sep off aplane, stride up and down a few streets of the main city of Hawai in his immaculate dark suit in the heat, and then retire (Rousell-like) to his hotel, and write the greatest "indigenous poem" about Hawai. This could be done by a genius. I say genius : a poetic Mozart. Cheers, Richard. pS epc New Zealand is NOT on the Auck Uni site I'M EPC New Zealand..so refer things to me...I am by right of being the most loquacious cntributor to EPC America..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "juliana spahr" To: Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 4:11 AM Subject: nature poetry > from David Hess: > > a detournement of Juliana Spahr's comment "Nature poetry is immoral" -- > > quoted in the most recent Poetry Project Newsletter. Like Jesse Helms > > finding a Mapplethorpe photo disgusting because he finds the subject matter > > disgusting, I think Spahr's dismissal of Nature poetry - which is not to say > > I love (all) Nature poetry - implies an easy dismissal of the natural world > > (perhaps for its overwhelming amorality). > > I feel sort of proud that I can say something so mundane and get > compared to someone such as Jesse Helms. But I also feel it would be > improper to me to take credit for such an extreme position. > > My Poetry Project newsletter has not arrived yet so I'm not sure what > exactly Hesse is quoting. And I have to admit that I did say this at a > reading. Yet if Hess had been at the reading he might have realized that > I was not dismissing the natural world in favor of the electronic or > that I am against I centered poetries or whatever it is he seems to want > to say in his post which I find confusing. > > My take on how nature poetry is immoral is not a dismissal of all nature > poetry or the natural world. It is more a very small complaint about a > specific sort of nature poetry that isolates a certain plant or animal > for heroic purposes w/o addressing the history of these plants and > animals and their relations with various sorts of humans and/or how > these plants and animals are seriously at risk. (I believe even at the > reading I said the sort of nature poetry that gets written in my > department; someone I know is famous for having edited a book of nature > poetry about Hawai'i which had no Hawaiians in it and few people who > even grew up in Hawai'i--it is full of what gets called 747 poems > there.) > > More specifically, I remember saying that nature poetry is immoral > because it shows the bird but not the bulldozer that is threatening the > bird's habitat. Not that radical a position. Not based on disgust of > nature but rather on respect for it. > > I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and > showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and > clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the > ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. > > And then I read a poem where I was attempting to think about nature > poetry and how it might represent the interconnected system of the > natural world rather than the individual plant as divorced from its > habitat. It pays homage to much of the nature poetry of Hawai'i, > especially the creation chant of the Kumulipo which is distinctive for > how it presents the process of creation as connection: > > 285. Born was the Wood borer, a parent > Out came its child a flying thing, and flew > Born was the Caterpillar, the parent > Out came its child a Moth, and flew > Born was the Ant, the parent > 290. Out came its child a Dragonfly, and flew > Born was the Grub, the parent > Out came its child the Grasshopper, and flew > Born was the Pinworm, the parent > Out came its child a Fly, and flew > 295. Born was the egg [?], the parent > Out came its child a bird, and flew > Born was the Snipe, the parent > Out came its child a Plover, > > The Beckwith translation of the Kumulipo is on the web: > http://www.sacred-texts.com/pac/ku/ > > The poem I then read was called "Nature Poetry." One section of this > poem in the web at Ampersand: http://www.mprsnd.net/poetry/js003.htm. > Another section of was published in Pom Pom and is available via pdf at > http://www.pompompress.com/PomPom_Issue1.pdf. The poem has six sections > to it. It probably doesn't live up to my hopes for nature poetry but was > written with respect for the genre and a belief in its possibilities. > > Thank you very much for your time. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:31:26 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: nature poetry The Genius in a Suit Visits Hawai MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Which address to use? reply re Nature Poetry etc To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:29 AM Subject: Re: nature poetry The Genius in a Suit Visits Hawai > Sparring with and Listers. Or one could take an extreme amoral or nihilist > position ( which I dont but I could take it as an "experiment") and write a > great poem about how > marvelous/wondrous/horrific/ghastly/troubling/exhilirating was the > destruction of the Trade Towers (especially as I saw that > beautiful/horrifying event which would be as valid as your own poem (which I > admire a lot) which is based on the struggle between the wasp (ichenuenon) > and the tarantula..by the way the wasps: each variety seeks out a particular > species of tarantula or trapdoor spider: detail I picked up): so we can see > New York (or Pittsburgh or Penrose in Auckland NZ) as a part of nature: in > fact what thing is not?...one of the trouble with "nature poems" ( the gooey > gooey pretty pretty poems about flowers with allthe oohing and ahhing) as > against say Willams C Williams poems such as Spring and All is that they > arbitrarily divide flowers from plastic factories, Penrose (Industrial area > of Auckland) from eg Fiordland...but even in Wordsworth there is his poem > "of Westminster Bridge" re London and he was very aware of the "dark" sides > of nature. > Wilimiams was no grovellor: he'd probably write a tough if humane poem > about nature and the complexities of S11 or the Israel situation: but as to > 747 poets: recal its wuite possible for a millionnaire to sep off aplane, > stride up and down a few streets of the main city of Hawai in his immaculate > dark suit in the heat, and then retire (Rousell-like) to his hotel, and > write the greatest "indigenous poem" about Hawai. This could be done by a > genius. I say genius : a poetic Mozart. Cheers, Richard. pS epc New Zealand > is NOT on the Auck Uni site I'M EPC New Zealand..so refer things to me...I > am by right of being the most loquacious cntributor to EPC America..... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "juliana spahr" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 4:11 AM > Subject: nature poetry > > > > from David Hess: > > > a detournement of Juliana Spahr's comment "Nature poetry is immoral" -- > > > quoted in the most recent Poetry Project Newsletter. Like Jesse Helms > > > finding a Mapplethorpe photo disgusting because he finds the subject > matter > > > disgusting, I think Spahr's dismissal of Nature poetry - which is not to > say > > > I love (all) Nature poetry - implies an easy dismissal of the natural > world > > > (perhaps for its overwhelming amorality). > > > > I feel sort of proud that I can say something so mundane and get > > compared to someone such as Jesse Helms. But I also feel it would be > > improper to me to take credit for such an extreme position. > > > > My Poetry Project newsletter has not arrived yet so I'm not sure what > > exactly Hesse is quoting. And I have to admit that I did say this at a > > reading. Yet if Hess had been at the reading he might have realized that > > I was not dismissing the natural world in favor of the electronic or > > that I am against I centered poetries or whatever it is he seems to want > > to say in his post which I find confusing. > > > > My take on how nature poetry is immoral is not a dismissal of all nature > > poetry or the natural world. It is more a very small complaint about a > > specific sort of nature poetry that isolates a certain plant or animal > > for heroic purposes w/o addressing the history of these plants and > > animals and their relations with various sorts of humans and/or how > > these plants and animals are seriously at risk. (I believe even at the > > reading I said the sort of nature poetry that gets written in my > > department; someone I know is famous for having edited a book of nature > > poetry about Hawai'i which had no Hawaiians in it and few people who > > even grew up in Hawai'i--it is full of what gets called 747 poems > > there.) > > > > More specifically, I remember saying that nature poetry is immoral > > because it shows the bird but not the bulldozer that is threatening the > > bird's habitat. Not that radical a position. Not based on disgust of > > nature but rather on respect for it. > > > > I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > > beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > > huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and > > showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > > political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > > plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > > and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and > > clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the > > ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. > > > > And then I read a poem where I was attempting to think about nature > > poetry and how it might represent the interconnected system of the > > natural world rather than the individual plant as divorced from its > > habitat. It pays homage to much of the nature poetry of Hawai'i, > > especially the creation chant of the Kumulipo which is distinctive for > > how it presents the process of creation as connection: > > > > 285. Born was the Wood borer, a parent > > Out came its child a flying thing, and flew > > Born was the Caterpillar, the parent > > Out came its child a Moth, and flew > > Born was the Ant, the parent > > 290. Out came its child a Dragonfly, and flew > > Born was the Grub, the parent > > Out came its child the Grasshopper, and flew > > Born was the Pinworm, the parent > > Out came its child a Fly, and flew > > 295. Born was the egg [?], the parent > > Out came its child a bird, and flew > > Born was the Snipe, the parent > > Out came its child a Plover, > > > > The Beckwith translation of the Kumulipo is on the web: > > http://www.sacred-texts.com/pac/ku/ > > > > The poem I then read was called "Nature Poetry." One section of this > > poem in the web at Ampersand: http://www.mprsnd.net/poetry/js003.htm. > > Another section of was published in Pom Pom and is available via pdf at > > http://www.pompompress.com/PomPom_Issue1.pdf. The poem has six sections > > to it. It probably doesn't live up to my hopes for nature poetry but was > > written with respect for the genre and a belief in its possibilities. > > > > Thank you very much for your time. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:37:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Lewis Warsh on WriteNet Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Lewis Warsh on WriteNet...Lewis Warsh discusses ways of conceiving subjectivity in poetry, breaking down the boundaries between prose and lyric, the fragment, and singing at his Bar-Mitzvah. Warsh also discusses his latest book _The Origin of The World_, which is really a terrific book. To see the interview, hear a clip of Lewis reading his poem "The Secret Police" in its entirety, and read the poem itself on a separate page, go to: http://www.writenet.org/poetschat/poetschat_l_warsh.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:48:48 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: Nature Poem from Kyger Comments: To: subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben---thanks for posting this..... One thing I want to say about this discussion so far is--- there's this general implication that NATURE POEMS ARE OKAY IF (BIG IF) it's clear in the particular NATURE POEM in question that the speaker's (or actually author's) attitude toward the NATURE described in the poem is not, say, one of escape or transcendence, or spurious political neutrality.... all things I tend to agree with IN GENERAL a lot of the time..... BUT that being said I want to leave the possibility open for a poem that focuses on the bird and not the bulldozer--- which is not necessarily irresponsible, especially if the same writer has poem after poem that focusses more on the "bulldozer" than the "bird"-- It's OKAY to not do this, no? It may seem a jump to say this, but SOMETIMES (yes, Kasey, caps are more scarey!) doesn't run risk BECOMING or MIMICKING the BULLDOZER one laments by focussing on it and not the bird. Sometimes, I say (because I tend to do this way more than not...). There's a sense of CONSISTENCY OF POETICS here that I fear is potentially debilitating.... Furthermore, there's also an assumption of SINGLE THEME as SINE QUA NON in this discussion (I mean, in a lot of contemporary poetry, "nature" (so-called) may come more in the form of "lines" than of "poems")..... Chris Ben Friedlander wrote: > Taking every chance I can to tell people, READ JOANNE KYGER! She's a treasure, vastly underappreciated, arguably the best we've got. > > This one was brought to mind by Juliana's comments about nature poetry on the Poetics list. I hope the linebreaks survive transit. > > Ben > > ***** > > I FIND IT DIFFICULT TO UTTER A MEANINGFUL UTTERANCE BUT > > I _can_ take the lightweight branch of a tree from a window > five stories up and let it propel me gently to the ground-- > > a combination of flying and floating, reminding myself > not to hurry the process into a crash landing I can also > stay out from under the feet of an elephant on a narrow > bridge--but this requires some assistance and a tip > to the owner, > > I also believe gardens should be planted with native seeds. > But to recommend an overview of how to sustain a floating > immigrant population like our own, I am at a loss. Of > course I believe one should be entertained by the imagination > and am against disgusting profit, but what about hoarding > ideas and feelings. > > And the neighbors who park > their car on your property, which you now want to landscape > with shrubs. But we've parked here for 10 years. Are you > telling us we _can't_ do it now, this is a TRADITIONAL USE! > > Well, you would like to point out, why don't you cut > back a little of your non-native bottle brush and put > your 'traditional' parking there, and then you could have > your traditional parking on your OWN traditional > land . . . . PLENTY of room there. > > April 29, 1997 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:51:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: entanglement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII entanglement deep-eco winter-season deeper lizards sleeping or comatose on leaves, imperial moths crossing my nighttime trembling skin, invisible borrow pit alligator deep-runnings, incoming ibis sky-murmuring, the drove of them, and when they darkened the sky thus - Your alligator-flag is polluted and mutated. - You classifying unknown territories. Your bay-heads are worlds-creating. What image you have of deeper lizards sleeping or comatose on leaves, imperial moths their touch red-eye, night-time alligator deep-runnings, incoming ibis ... Would deeper lizards sleeping or comatose on leaves, imperial moths , alligator flight and mating in deep-runnings, incoming ibis swarming - contaminate you, your pond-lily crawls me across your bay-head! How would you name your deeper strangler-fig alligator-flag? Your entanglements... on a thin notebook - My deeper periphyton and murk is your biome here... testings of deeper times, tilapia approach, walking the depths of the slough calling forth grasshopper osprey, hungered, making things. under the coot, testings of deeper times, tilapia approach, walking the depths of the slough is , lacewings mating - somehow to approach, partake? ... osprey is deeper periphyton and murk on wet flesh, of osprey-lurking - Are you satisfied with your testings of deeper times, tilapia approach, walking the depths of the slough ? A lubber and white nightmare! Wait! testings of deeper times, tilapia approach, walking the depths of the slough are written and notebook thinned. testings of deeper times, tilapia approach, walking the depths of the slough :mating lacewings - somehow to approach, partake:deeper lizards sleeping or comatose on leaves, imperial moths everywhere, night-time alligator deep-runnings, of incoming ibis :: Do deeper lizards sleeping or comatose on leaves, imperial moths red-eyed on fragile skin, night-time alligator deep-runnings, incoming ibis replace your testings of deeper times, tilapia approach, walking the depths of the slough ? osprey soaring, dive entanglement the tangles ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:46:26 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: Re: nature poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mongooses were brought in, not to control snakes, of which there are none here, but to control rats. As one animal is out during the day, and the other at night, the twain did not meet, and they both became pests! Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duration Press" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 8:01 AM Subject: Re: nature poetry > There are only a few things I remember about Hawai'i (spent a short amount > of time there...Dad grew up there, tho, & still goes back frequently)...one > of which is stories about the introduction of the mongoose (to, I think, > control snake problems...tho if I'm wrong on that, please correct me) to the > islands, & the resulting destruction that introduction had to the native > birds, etc... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: nature poetry > > > > In a message dated 4/15/02 10:32:05 AM, fargas-laura@DOL.GOV writes: > > > > << Juliana Spohr wrote: > > > > > > >>> More specifically, I remember saying that nature poetry is immoral > > > > because it shows the bird but not the bulldozer that is threatening the > > > > bird's habitat. Not that radical a position. Not based on disgust of > > > > nature but rather on respect for it. > > > > > > I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > > > > beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > > > > huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and > > > > showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > > > > political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > > > > plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > > > > and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and > > > > clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the > > > > ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. >>> > > > > > > > > > > Gee whiz, Juliana. That's a lot of freight for a little flower poem > to > > > > haul. O passion flower thou art sick? > > > > > > LF > > > > >> > > > > You said it. Sheesh! Best, Bill > > > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > > KojaPress.com > > Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:16:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Boston Poetry Marathon Subject: Email addresses for Diane Wald & Danielle Legros-Georges? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi, all. If anyone out there has email addresses for either Diane Wald or Danielle Legros-Georges, please backchannel. Many thanks-- _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 00:18:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII laughinggull:blackskimmer:yellow-throat::slashpinepond-lilydissolve loblollypineospreyinalligator-nestingwildcoffee:greeniguana:racer:: apple-snail:pondcypress:slashpine::slashpineapple-snail:sawgrassin alligator-nestinganhinga:brownpelican:whitepelican::glasswortmoorhen glasswortisacrossgrasshopperglassworthorsefly:cloudless sulphur:lubber::bladderwortdissolvesblackmangroveturkey-vulturein alligator-nestingcommoncricketfrog:cooter:floridaredbellyturtle:: atalacommoncricketfrogacrosspond-applecommoncricketfrog trumpet-vine:gumbo-limbo:beefstakepolypore::beefstakepolypore trumpet-vine::bladderwortinalligator-nestinggumbo-limbo:gumbo-limbo :gumbo-limbo::moorhenalligator-flagacrossgumbo-limboalligator-flag blackvulture:turkeyvulture:turkeyvulture:blackvulture:blackturkey vulturetowardsribbon-snakeblackvulture ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:59:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Nature Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The poetics model for flowers in poems that I would think would be at the tip of everyone's tongue, in a Modernist/post-modern context, is Mallarme's: "Je dis: une fleur. Et, voila! l'absent de tous bouquets." "I say: a flower. And, there it is! the one missing from every bouquet." The whole poetic linguistics of Mallarmean referentiality and the tradition that flowed out of it (which basically should include "materialist" or abtract writing of the sort that predominates in this List's ideologies) has been explicated around that single fulcrum. The idea, perhaps obviously, is that the poetic invocation of a noun positions that noun within an ~in vacuo~ context, where all its contingent details are pared away and it exists for the imagination and for semiotics in a kind of pure thing-in-itself-ness. Its the basis of poetic ~autonomy,~ which is also an unnamed concern in this discussion. Autonomy, of course, is that more ~Shelleyan~ poetic universe where symbols, archetypes, or pure signs operate without the laws of gravity, physics, or Law that elsewhere hinder their activity under other, standard verbal decorums. What interests me about Juliana's politics, and what seems like something of a latent contradiction to me, is that exigencies of the "outside world" (the historical eco-crimes of botany) are treated as carrying a compelling enough (moral) weight to impinge upon poetry's autonomy or radical freedom. It (perhaps dangerously) opens up poetry to a sort of Judgment Day of The Signified, where every petal, person, and place, logically, needs then to be re-interrogated to nail its moral trespasses across each poem. It also (Juliana?) is treating the flower's immorality as a sin in an ~absolute~ morality, no? where the wrongfulness of man's transplanting species that a strong change of wind current could equally have re-seeded (I am not arguing in the particular here) is treated as self-evident. And, perhaps stranger to me, is that it's superimposing the ideal of a ~moral nature~ over a force, nature, that some of the best poetry and literature, to the contrary, has testified to be a wild, ravenous, lethal and combative arena. Think of Robert Frost's spider which, on close reading, like most of his derided nature poetry, is not so pretty after all, but rather a close-up of a rapacious, attacking, hungry zombie. Where I wonder if there isn't a Spahr contradiction ---our attempts to gloss over the contradictions of "capitalism" with newer, less-identifiable contradictions--- is in the "285. ... 290. ... 295." of the poem Juliana cites. The essential lexical autonomy of the poem as verbal construct is conspicuously asserted through that line count, and constitutes an ~amoral~ independence of poetic language from outside pressures (unless, of course, the numbering is read as the intrusion of the exogenous nagging of editorial criticism impinging upon the poem's chant),--- but then, once established, that poetic independence must in turn be sacrificed because of related historical knowledge. Kant --- or Hegel? --- makes an early, touchstone example of the distinction between aesthetics and morality: we can say, "That cathedral is beautiful"; but to say "That cathedral is ~not~ beautiful because of the back-breaking labor that went into its building" is not an aesthetic judgment. Where the line-numbering may be too infinitesimal an example, I think other arbitrary selections from Spahr's poetry, or any other "post-Language" writing, should more clearly demonstrate this "contradiction." From the PomPom poem, ~Analogy from Analogy,~ almost every line, viz. "Analogy from analogy. / Analogy of analogy": The poetically autonomous lexical differentiations between one pronoun and the next ("from"/"of") operate across that same ~amoral~ axis of the poet's freedom; "Alaaiha, `e`ea, alawi, crow, apapane, mudhen. / ... / Fly-catcher, turnstone, a`u, a`o, plover, snipe": on the face of things, the oeprative poetic agency is the difference between the English and Hawaiian words, again a lexical and not a moral movement (the Hawaiian, for the presumed non-Hawaiian English speaker, enters in as a sort of zaum, and its reiterated utterances ["A`o of the A'u. ... `E`ea from alaaiaha"] give off ululating, seemingly lament-like vocalese. In that approximation of a sort of inadvertent glossolalia, the poetry escapes even further from the Law that morality would beckon poetry back into. ...Although these extrinsic, "real world" facts and eco-atrocities are very, very important. How strange, though, that we might be finding ways of incorporating the eco-atrocity back into poetry when it is (safely?) removed at a distance from us, by time and history. But our capacities are blocked at incorporating the contemporary (when it enters in, with its consequent descriptions and referentiality, it becomes bad "Poetry Magazine" poetry and contemptible: and yet, morality that carries any force is morality of the moment, of the immediate, so that a different, "more conservative" poetic language that confronts us with the real and the current, to our distaste, is at least re-encompassing us into a here and now where morality might matter). Is a moral laundry list of the past an effective teaching device to educate into the reader an awareness of ~botanical ethics~ that in turn might be applied by the reader, the book once put aside, to their surroundings? Maybe. Anachronism has often been an effective device for confronting the audience with moral examples they would reject in a more confrontational presentation. I do believe, though, that these two opposing currents of necessary School of Buffalo poetic/lexical autonomy and supra-verbal morality may be at cross-purposes with each other. One or the other will have to give way, no? It was 91 degrees in Central Park today in New York City, April 15th. Eco-ethics could not be more urgent. However, I doubt that the guardians of flora's innocence will move into a similarly moral poetry where every car driver, every mile per gas, every traffic light, Stop sign and gas station, the red Pegasus on the Texaco logo, are incriminated for the abominations they are. Every woman whose hairspray ever burned a hole in the sky. Ach! Ach! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 04:08:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: nature poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > right, chris, I think? selfish and romanticism have accreted so many > barnacles over the years that they have become clubs and unweildy ones at > that. "selfish" is a term a 3-yr. old uses to get a bigger share of the pie > even though the other might have a legitimate claim to a portion for > herself. 'romantic' is a name i call myself when I'm disillusioned. > > maybe poets could shed some light on current political rhetorical gambits? > > tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:48:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Life Goes On -- Reading in Buffalo NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Life Goes On digital poetrics by Geoffrey Gatza 2:30PM Today Academic Festival & 7PM Tonight (April 17, 2002) Daemen College, Alumni Lounge Digital Poetrics extending the resources of innovative poetry and new media by bringing literature to the Web Life goes on; oh bla de Specializing in avant garde narrative systems to computer media poetics and web-based arts through technically, materially innovative publication projects; oh blah da The entire presentation is available online please stop by www.daemen.edu/pages/ggatza/life Some movies are data heavy -- If you would like a CD-ROM please email back If you happen to be in Buffalo and are free at 7 PM come on down to Daemen College Daemen College ^Õ 4380 Main Street ^Õ Amherst, NY 14226 (right down the street from UB south campus) Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:51:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jenny Penberthy Subject: Lorine Niedecker: Collected Works Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At last I can say that Lorine Niedecker's Collected Works will be available in a week or two! The book arrives in the warehouse on April 24. "Lorine Niedecker proves a major poet of the 20th century, just as Emily Dickinson was for the 19th. Bleak indeed that both should have been so curiously overwritten and ignored, when their work defined the time in which they lived with such genius. Jenny Penberthy has provided an excellent text and a comprehensive, detailing introduction. Finally, we have the collected poems of that poet whom her peers thought the very best of their company. Now one can know why." Robert Creeley UC Press site: http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9019.html Introduction to the book: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/jacket18/penb-nied.html --Jenny Penberthy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:01:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristin Palm Subject: poetry film Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes. It sucks. Which makes it not unlike much of the work espoused in the circles the film supposedly represents. Also, contrary to it's title, there is very little poetry/spoken word used in the film, aside from the scene where Saul Williams bursts into rap-tinged verse in the middle of the prison courtyard which (and I hope I'm not giving too much away here) is the exact moment the soon-to-be-laid off prison writer-in-residence (and, we later find out, former drug addict) begins to fall in love with him. Not terribly representative of the life of a writer-in-residence (other than, perhaps, the laid-off part), in my experience, but perhaps I'm nitpicking. My high school students, on the other hand, thought it was great. Several of them also love Russell Simmons' Def Poetry. So you can imagine what my life as a writer-in-residence is like. kp Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:18:30 -0230 From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: poetry film hi all, this came to me through another list. does anyone know anything about this film? thanks, kevin Subject: [mgp] HFX-F.O.C.U.S. This weeks Film will Be 'Slam' staring poet Saul Williams. It is the story of a young man's journey through the prison system of Washington State and his use of slam poetry to resist the de-humanization that goes hand in glove with being jailed. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:04:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allan loved it like a verbal romp through the primal swamp! Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:06:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Nature Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit et tu Jeffrey une belle fleur sans merci Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:33:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--April 2002 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street (west of Greenwich Street) New York City FREE Subway--N,R/Prince; C,E/Spring; 1,9/Canal April 20 A reading for the journal RUNES with CB Follet and friends Enid Dame Sharon Dolin george wallace Simon Perchik Deena Linnett Meredith Trede Madeline Tiger Karen Sirabian CB Follett Susan Terris April 27 Joy Katz, David Lehman, Catie Rosemurgy For more information, contact Michael Broder or Jason Schneiderman at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:15:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: nature poetry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ecological correctness? Oh yes! And speaking of invading species, let's enlarge, as Don Rumsfeld likes to say, this problem. We should always remember that particular invading species proved most devastating to the ecology of this continent, and that's us, the white people. Thank you, Juliana, for reminding us. Whatever we read or write, we should always keep it in mind. Igor Satanovsky > > I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > > > > beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > > > > huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil and > > > > showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > > > > political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > > > > plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > > > > and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food and > > > > clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and the > > > > ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:48:56 -0400 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: The rose is obsolete Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The rose is obsolete but each petal ends in an edge, the double facet cementing the grooved columns of air -- The edge cuts without cutting meets -- nothing -- renews itself in metal or porcelain -- whither? It ends -- But if it ends the start is begun so that to engage roses becomes a geometry -- Sharper, neater, more cutting figured in majolica -- the broken plate glazed with a rose Somewhere the sense makes copper roses steel roses -- The rose carried the weight of love but love is at an end -- of roses It is at the edge of the petal that love waits Crisp, worked to defeat laboredness -- fragile plucked, moist, half-raised cold, precise, touching What The place between the petal's edge and the From the petal's edge a line starts that being of steel infintely fine, infinitely rigid penetrates the Milky Way without contact -- lifting from it -- neither hanging nor pushing The fragility of the flower unbruised penetrates space --- WCW, 1923 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:51:33 -0400 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Armantrout in the Boston Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed While I'm fulminating here, I ought to mention that Rae Armantrout is the subject of a long and intelligent piece by Stephen Burt in the new Boston Review http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR27.2/burt.html Rae also has two poems in the issue. They're really great. (You may read this missive twice -- I sent it about 5 days ago and got the standard reply from the Listserv but it hasn't shown up yet, tho I've gotten some 50-odd other messages from the list since then.) Ron _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:17:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: nature poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Okay, I usually try to stay out of these things (though this has been an interesting discussion, and there is a great deal more here that I could, & may yet, add my thoughts on)-- But, Igor, I just can't let this one slide: "us, the white people." I'm sorry, what planet are you living on? Or rather, in what century? I don't think the issue in this case is "correctness," which is usually characterized as a kind of dim group-think in which individual response is shut down-- but precisely its opposite, the impulse to say, or do, what one feels one should. This is also, I think, apparently Julianna's motivation, in that poem, though I haven't read it yet. Personally I liked her description of it, & I like the idea that a "little flower poem" could carry that kind of "freight." (By comparison with either that or the Kyger, which Ben thankfully pointed to, another nature poem that's loaded with historical & political context: "Passage" by Jack Collom-- much too long to quote here). However, to get back to the point of this post, please feel free not to include me in your "us, the white people," whatever the color of my skin, or yours, and however you may think that color relevant to an ecology which will not differentiate, I'm sure, between homo sapiens white or brown, or however uncareful with their words. Mark DuCharme >From: Isat@AOL.COM >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: nature poetry >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:15:20 -0400 > >Ecological correctness? Oh yes! >And speaking of invading species, let's enlarge, as Don Rumsfeld likes to >say, this problem. We should always remember that particular invading >species proved most devastating to the ecology of this continent, and >that's us, the white people. Thank you, Juliana, for reminding us. Whatever >we read or write, we should always keep it in mind. > >Igor Satanovsky > > > > > > > I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > > > > > > beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > > > > > > huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil >and > > > > > > showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > > > > > > political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > > > > > > plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > > > > > > and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food >and > > > > > > clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and >the > > > > > > ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. 'poetry because things say' ^×Bernadette Mayer http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:40:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: a gaol for Flora MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii So that in their waxing albedo The Hooligans of Horticulture might from their hothouse, a buttercup's ruination, peer out upon the sap-slathered tongues of a dishonest florette and like calumnies, in their vines of unpleasant incursions they fashioned as a cobbled dovescote out of the hod carrier's board an imprisoning lattice of Great Shame whereupon blooms of springtime should swell up their despicable impunity, a taunting stem, and be at a beggars' prom the conscienceless corsage for unmarried mistresses whose snowy cleanliness knew no Great Foul Scandal of a flowering hedge, its unctuous flowery stench of crime Dawson's Creek marks its 100th episode __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:09:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: The Howeses Comments: To: wh@dept.english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could someone pass along contact info, preferably emails for Susan and Fanny Howe? Much appreicated. Alicia Askenase ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:38:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: DB#4 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020415210001.03879350@pop.bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The next issue of Drunken Boat is up at: Issue#4 includes photographs by Isabelle Hayeur, sound by Eric Leonardson, web art by Annette Weintraub and poetry by Jonathan Minton. And as no National Poetry Month is complete without a lampoon of the Poet Laureate, please see Paul Stephens' essay "An Apology for Poetry, or Why Bother With Billy Collins?" Any responses to this piece should be backchanneled to editors@drunkenboat.com as we will publish a sampling of these. Also, we're changing our format from a biannual to a quarterly, so expect to see another issue in the early summer. Best, Ravi Shankar Ed., http://www.drunkenboat.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:03:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: lighthouse by M. Mara-Ann -- Atelos Book Release Reading & Party in San Francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just a reminder about tonight: M. Mara-Ann will be reading tonight from her new Atelos book, lighthouse, at The Lab, 2948-16th Street (between Mission & South Van Ness), in San Francisco at 8pm. $5-$8 sliding scale. There will be a party following the reading. info: (415) 864-8855 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:18:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: jennifer's dream of goodness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII jennifer's dream of goodness lacewings curled around each other in the doomed thicket. they came to me and said, there is no competition; cut the cables. the unseemly monotony of engines formed a distant phalanx. already live-born young were the order of the day. eggstrands transformed into protective grills. poison occupied the tips of incessant life. the contribution of the viruses was immense and not to be underestimated. a second-order phalanx formed inside the mutated grills. microscopic domains organized against the violence of the macro-world. lacewing circulations, viral turbulence, across the sawgrass surface. their stems bending slightly, sawgrass forests acquiesced to the power of the thicket. shudders went through skins of the mammalian order. their live-born young died quickly of unknown contusions. the phalanxes stilled among incessant life. lacewings curled around each other in the order of the day. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:29:17 -0700 Reply-To: lindanorton@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: linda norton Subject: Re: Lorine Niedecker: Collected Works Dear Jenny, I happened to stop in at the press yesterday and was presented with one of the first copies of the bound book. One of the biggest thrills and honors of my professional life, and my life of heart and mind, to have worked with you on this book. It is beautiful. I have a started a new job as senior editor in the Regional oral History Office at the Bancroft, hired by the new director, historian Richard Cándida Smith. I feel very lucky to be there. I am slowly getting back in touch with people to whom I never said good-bye when I left the press. Please give my email and news of developments in my life to anyone who might want to know! And take care and enjoy this wonderful moment. Well^×I know you will. Sincerely and affectionately, Linda 750 Rand Avenue, #5 Oakland, CA 94610 (510) 893-1184 On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:51:30 -0700 Jenny Penberthy wrote: At last I can say that Lorine Niedecker's Collected Works will be available in a week or two! The book arrives in the warehouse on April 24. "Lorine Niedecker proves a major poet of the 20th century, just as Emily Dickinson was for the 19th. Bleak indeed that both should have been so curiously overwritten and ignored, when their work defined the time in which they lived with such genius. Jenny Penberthy has provided an excellent text and a comprehensive, detailing introduction. Finally, we have the collected poems of that poet whom her peers thought the very best of their company. Now one can know why." Robert Creeley UC Press site: http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9019.ht ml Introduction to the book: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/jacket18/penb-ni ed.html --Jenny Penberthy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:14:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Hannah Weiner in MP3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The EPC is now featuring two MP3 files of the complete New Wilderness Audiographic release (c. 1976) of Hannah Weiner's three-voice performance of The Clairvoyant Journal. March 1974, with Sharon Mattlin and Margaret DeCoursey http://epc.buffalo.edu/sound/weiner/HannahWeiner-ClairvoyantJnl-3-74.mp3 (25M) April 1974, with Sharon Mattlin and Regina Beck http://epc.buffalo.edu/sound/weiner/HannahWeiner-ClairvoyantJnl-4-74.mp3 (26M) As these two MP3 files are quite large, you may prefer the streaming real audio version at Factory School's audio archive: http://www.factoryschool.org/content/poetry/bubbles.html But if you want to make a CD of this performance -- the definitive performances of the work -- this is the way to go. Thanks to Joel Kuszai for making the dubs. (Both the Real Audio and MP3 files have been made available with the permission of the Estate of Hannah Weiner for noncommericial exchange and listening.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:32:38 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: nature poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark. I can see what you're saying: but the truth is that the majority of Americans, Australians, Canadians, and other ex colonial countries 9some now republics) are now dominated (or the political economic power) iis inthe hands of European people: in the US they are Wasps...I saw a docu on a day with Monsieur Bushe and he had a lot of white Texans around him and one (probably token ) black woman.....of course (by "us" to be fair or unfair to Monsieur Satansky) is referred the majority. You have to get used to uncarefulness: sound s to me your're being to pedantic. However, it would be truer to say the humans have in general destroyed: but they have also enhanced and developed their environment. One thinks of parks and gardens, the development of domestic animals for food, and so on: even certain conceptual art works point to new possibilities: nature, we humans are also nature, destroys and sterilises as much as it gives life. Their are "natural" forces more lethal, more detructive, cold, and productive of sterility and horror, than anything Man can ape. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark DuCharme" To: Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 4:17 AM Subject: Re: nature poetry > Okay, I usually try to stay out of these things (though this has been an > interesting discussion, and there is a great deal more here that I could, & > may yet, add my thoughts on)-- > > But, Igor, I just can't let this one slide: "us, the white people." I'm > sorry, what planet are you living on? Or rather, in what century? > > I don't think the issue in this case is "correctness," which is usually > characterized as a kind of dim group-think in which individual response is > shut down-- but precisely its opposite, the impulse to say, or do, what one > feels one should. This is also, I think, apparently Julianna's motivation, > in that poem, though I haven't read it yet. Personally I liked her > description of it, & I like the idea that a "little flower poem" could carry > that kind of "freight." (By comparison with either that or the Kyger, which > Ben thankfully pointed to, another nature poem that's loaded with historical > & political context: "Passage" by Jack Collom-- much too long to quote > here). > > However, to get back to the point of this post, please feel free not to > include me in your "us, the white people," whatever the color of my skin, or > yours, and however you may think that color relevant to an ecology which > will not differentiate, I'm sure, between homo sapiens white or brown, or > however uncareful with their words. > > > Mark DuCharme > > > > >From: Isat@AOL.COM > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: nature poetry > >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:15:20 -0400 > > > >Ecological correctness? Oh yes! > >And speaking of invading species, let's enlarge, as Don Rumsfeld likes to > >say, this problem. We should always remember that particular invading > >species proved most devastating to the ecology of this continent, and > >that's us, the white people. Thank you, Juliana, for reminding us. Whatever > >we read or write, we should always keep it in mind. > > > >Igor Satanovsky > > > > > > > > > > > > I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > > > > > > > > beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > > > > > > > > huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil > >and > > > > > > > > showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > > > > > > > > political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > > > > > > > > plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > > > > > > > > and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food > >and > > > > > > > > clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and > >the > > > > > > > > ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. > > > > > > > > 'poetry because things say' > > -Bernadette Mayer > > > > > > http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:06:53 +0100 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Renatured poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Dave & Jeffrey-- It is always good to breathe. Watch the example of Rimbaud, Blake, Artaud, Rukeyser, Cesaire, or Vallejo. This is "prelapsarian unity," right-o? Claim two points in space-- be the anti-nowhere league. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:26:51 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Nature Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 The Question of Entrance to understand what things meant would be tragic. A failure of=20 nervousness. I cant gesticulate enough. Ape me you.=20 Thus I.Disastrous. A bolt. About this time the green and blue = musicentered on harrying tip toe to a grandstand cacophony as if a = nation had been slaughtered. Reality kept on: we=20 couldnt fix that, but there were pressing intrusions. I want you: you want. He wants, she wants, they want. Everyone wants. There is a = heaviness blacks the land. What is it with you? It's...Christ it's getting hot. = Plant something. Are they caming? Will they be caming? What's that? = Who's this? And so on as a thousand vermilion vermin settled in. Ours of = course to laud and chuckle over as the chairs rock unattended and vacant = of personas.=20 The wind, apropos of nowt, whips the air and all become involved in the = drama with the chilling fingers and maybe the Laocoon. The death that = young men yearn for. They keep wandering. A hundred thousand died last = week and things are everywhere.=20 And they flash or wink in a violent opposition of clangs, bangs, and = clashes of shatter-light. All this and more: and still more, setting = store and we are thus bereft to consider the clammy cells and the days = of April: the days of yore when petrol pingle pangled out of Big Tree = Cans until you fucked with various heads, fucker.=20 But all this is much more than it is. In fact it is much more than more = than what it is. Much much more you whore. All this being more: I being = you and you seeking me and us as we seek you and indeed ever shall into = endless edges. The great sea turns white. And why shouldnt it? Nothing = is. And yet the Thing playing about his frontage had sleight. Some sort = of lusty legerdemain. Les Main Sales. They are. It all started with: = "You dirty boy." The house leaked like a palindrome; but never = completely as if a savage and incomprehensible music (nationality or = race unknown or irrelevant) was and did deep-guide her quick hand, and = the subject of gluttony shifted, till one, flicking back a strand of = hair, scraped back her chair and vanished by virtue of defaulted = surprise. We linguists. I, by the way, am that to be and verify. =20 Richard Taylor 17 11 2001 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:37:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Nature Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh richard'tis true c'est vrai tell me do you do what i do string all those prompts together into one long poem? Sheila ps the hills are alive with the sound of music and my corn is almost as high without inhaling as my infanta Castile ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:18:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: little flower poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/16/02 2:22:35 PM, immerito@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << "Sheesh" seems very dismissive and uncritical. I think Laura's comment, however it was intended, points to a real heroic undertaking on the part of Juliana's "little flower poem." The little flower poem that could! Why shouldn't little flower poems haul big freight? Isn't that one of the tests of poetic strength--the ability to stretch verbal/semantic sinews past a reasonable limit? For that matter, Blake's poem is itself an example of such overcharged signifying duty. More to the point, Juliana is demanding that even the most delicate petal-soft lyric embody a social and historical awareness, in whatever way. If her specificity about the particular progress of the passion flower sounds ridiculous to some ears, that ridiculousness is an inversion of a much more serious ridiculousness on the other extreme: that of pretending isolated aesthetic expressions can be oblivious to the specific material conditions of REALITY. To brush this stance aside as "politically correct" or whatever is just to affect glibly fashionable "incorrectness." More power to flower poems! Kasey >> An overreaction to Sheesh, don't you think? I'd hate to think that a poet who finds herself in a pleasant environment, and is moved to express, might hesitate, concerned over how to politicize the experience. I was reacting only to the accusation that the failure to do so is somehow immoral. Can't recall if that came from Laura, or Juliana. Whomever, that's a sheesh if there ever was one. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:27:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: nature poetry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mark, I certainly understand your impulse not to be a part of "us, the white people," but it's pretty hard to argue with the facts: destruction of our biohabitat has been brought on by the forces unleashed by the Western civilization. If you think little green people had something to do with it, i am ready to discuss this possibility :-). Otherwise, you are picking on the form of my message, not its substance. And if the phrase "us, the white people" gets you going, obviously, "p.c." is very much a part of the picture. Your strong emotional reaction reveals that there is much to be discussed along these lines. Best, Igor S. << Okay, I usually try to stay out of these things (though this has been an interesting discussion, and there is a great deal more here that I could, & may yet, add my thoughts on)-- But, Igor, I just can't let this one slide: "us, the white people." I'm sorry, what planet are you living on? Or rather, in what century? I don't think the issue in this case is "correctness," which is usually characterized as a kind of dim group-think in which individual response is shut down-- but precisely its opposite, the impulse to say, or do, what one feels one should. This is also, I think, apparently Julianna's motivation, in that poem, though I haven't read it yet. Personally I liked her description of it, & I like the idea that a "little flower poem" could carry that kind of "freight." (By comparison with either that or the Kyger, which Ben thankfully pointed to, another nature poem that's loaded with historical & political context: "Passage" by Jack Collom-- much too long to quote here). However, to get back to the point of this post, please feel free not to include me in your "us, the white people," whatever the color of my skin, or yours, and however you may think that color relevant to an ecology which will not differentiate, I'm sure, between homo sapiens white or brown, or however uncareful with their words. Mark DuCharme >From: Isat@AOL.COM >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: nature poetry >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:15:20 -0400 > >Ecological correctness? Oh yes! >And speaking of invading species, let's enlarge, as Don Rumsfeld likes to >say, this problem. We should always remember that particular invading >species proved most devastating to the ecology of this continent, and >that's us, the white people. Thank you, Juliana, for reminding us. Whatever >we read or write, we should always keep it in mind. > >Igor Satanovsky > > > > > > > I was also talking about Hawai'i where one can read a poem about the > > > > > > beauty of a certain plant, say the passion flower aka liliko'i aka > > > > > > huehue haloe, and yet not realize that the plant arrived from Brazil >and > > > > > > showed up in Maui in 1888 (around the time of annexation--certain > > > > > > political moments like contact and annexation dramatically changed the > > > > > > plants and animals of Hawai'i this in turn endangered various species > > > > > > and created hardship for the humans who used these species for food >and > > > > > > clothing, etc.) and that the plant smothers shrubs, small trees and >the > > > > > > ground layer. In some areas it also smothers the upper canopy layer. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:49:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Nature Poem from Kyger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/16/02 10:01:40 PM, cstroffo@EARTHLINK.NET writes: << I want to leave the possibility open for a poem that focuses on the bird and not the bulldozer--- which is not necessarily irresponsible, especially if the same writer has poem after poem that focusses more on the "bulldozer" than the "bird"-- It's OKAY to not do this, no? >> Thank you. A little common sense here. Of course it's all right to do this, and one should be able to revel in nature's mysteries without feeling dirty. Or is this immoral? By the way, I was agreeing with another poster who suggested that we might be asking a bit much from a little flower poem. Interesting that post was ignored while several construction workers bulldozed me. I had no idea that "sheesh" was such a potent word. Seems rather innocuous, usually delivered with a petalous eye-twinkle. Oh well. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:12:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Nature Poem from Kyger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oh gawd laud laud laud i once had a student who once no I had the privilege of instructing a young woman who wrote a true story essay subject how whenever she hurt herself as a child her Mom would say that she should say little flower, little flower, help me to reveal my power" now as a "left legger" by default I wanted to say gag me but instead said that's very sweet I'll have to remember that line while I was thinking I still prefer a hearty fuck you. Gotta go time to go outside and eat some dirt Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:41:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Renatured poetry Comments: To: baratier@megsinet.net In-Reply-To: <3CBE1B62.64BB290B@megsinet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tunafish Sandwich Piece by Yoko Ono Imagine one thousand suns in the sky. Watch them until they drip down to the ground. Make one tunafish sandwich and eat. --- David Baratier wrote: > Dear Dave & Jeffrey-- > > It is always good to breathe. > Watch the example of Rimbaud, Blake, > Artaud, Rukeyser, Cesaire, or Vallejo. > This is "prelapsarian unity," right-o? > Claim two points in space-- > be the anti-nowhere league. > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > PO Box 6291 > Columbus OH 43206 > USA > > http://pavementsaw.org ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:15:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: Essays Needed for Volume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am looking for someone (or two people) to write essays for the forthcoming Companion to 20th Century American Poetry (Facts on File, Inc., 2004). Essays need to be written on, respectively: Poetry Translation (i.e., how 20th century American translation has played a role in the body of 20th century American poetry), and Ron Loewinsohn. The Translation essay would be 2000 words, the Loewinsohn essay 500 words. If you are interested in writing either or both of these essays then please contact me; if I don't know you then please furnish some information about yourself including your publishing history. More about the Companion project can be learned by going to its website: http://eies.njit.edu/~kimmelma/companion.html Thanks, Burt Kimmelman kimmelman@njit.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:17:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: manowak@stkate.edu From: Poetics List Administration Subject: XCP in NYC (April 19, 20, 21): please post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ****PLEASE POST, EMAIL TO FRIENDS, ATTEND !!***** ******* Friday, April 19 (Brecht Forum) 7:30 pm JOURNAL RELEASE PARTY Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics 10th Issue Celebration (Amiri Baraka, Kamau Brathwaite, Jeff Derksen, May Joseph, Mark Nowak, Juliana Spahr, Rodrigo Toscano & Cecilia Vicuna) "Welcome to a Writers' Manual on how to detonate the Master-Axis of Big-Brother Narratives." -Poetry Project Newsletter Join in celebrating the publication of the 10th issue of the Minneapolis-based journal Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics. Amiri Baraka, Kamau Brathwaite, Cecilia Vicuna, May Joseph, Rodrigo Toscano, Juliana Spahr, and Jeff Derksen--all contributors to recent issues of Xcp--will join editor Mark Nowak in reading from their works. A complete "Table of Contents" for each issue of Xcp, plus sample writings and much more, are available at . Sliding Scale: $6/$8/$10 ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________ Saturday, April 20 10:00 am - Noon WORKSHOP Poetry as (Local) History (Alan Gilbert & Mark Nowak) This workshop will explore the interstices between writing poetry and writing (local) history. Workshop leaders Mark Nowak and Alan Gilbert will discuss the writings of several poets whose work is grounded in an exploration of history (local, regional, etc.). In addition to a bibliography of "Poetry as (Local) History" for further reading and research, each participant will receive a copy of Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics that includes writings on the workshop theme by poet Fred Wah, anthropologist Lila Abu-Lughod, Roger Sanjek's fieldwork in Queens, reviews of Paul Metcalf's Collected Works, and more. The workshop will conclude with a discussion of participants current (or future) projects in this area and various poetic approaches that might be employed in their writing of (local) history as poetry. Alan Gilbert's writings on poetry, art, and politics have appeared in a number of publications, including Afterimage, Boston Review, and Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics. Recent poems have appeared in The Baffler and First Intensity. Mark Nowak, author of Revenants, is editor of Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics and co-editor (with Diane Glancy) of Visit Teepee Town: Native Writings After the Detours. Sliding Scale: $6/$8/$10 The Brecht Forum 122 West 27th St. 10th Fl. NYC (Betw. 6th & 7th Aves.) 1,9,N,R to 28th St. F to 23rd St., PATH to 23rd St, C/E to 23rd St. 212.242.4201 info@brechtforum. www.brechtforum.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Also (FYI), on Sunday, April 21, XCP editor Mark Nowak will be reading with ANNA MOSCHOVAKIS at the Zinc Bar. Readings start at 6:37 Zinc Bar is downstairs at 90 west houston--just off the corner of LaGuardia Place. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:25:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Tango Scalapino MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An unfortunate oversight on our part left Camille Martin's message sitting unnoticed in the list administration account until after this event had already taken place. Apologies to her and all. She asked that we post the announcement anyway. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- From: "Camille Martin" Subject: Tango Scalapino Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:55:23 -0500 Lit City Presents TANGO SCALAPINO A Poetry Reading Friday, April 12, 2002, 6:30-8:30 pm Cafe Brasil, 2100 Chartres St., New Orleans Leslie Scalapino with New Orleans poets Camille Martin and Joel Dailey Vocal performance by Claudia Copeland Tango by Sarah Lorca Vizer Raffle prizes Free Red Beans and Rice Admission: $4 - $12 California poet Leslie Scalapino is the author of more than 20 books of poetry, fiction, plays, and essays, including, most recently, The Tango (Granary Book, 2001) and R-hu (Atelos, 2000). Philip Whalen writes, "Leslie Scalapino has developed great expertise in presenting a hard-edged picture of the world. We are constantly made to realize that what she's showing us is the world as we have constructed it... " Her work combines a lyric intensity with the engaged intelligence of a remarkable social and political thinker. --------------------------------------- Also don't miss: Workshop with Leslie Scalapino Saturday, April 13, 2:30 PM, 7725 Cohn Street - $10 Call 861 8832 or email bill@litcity.net for more information Lit City is a New Orleans-based 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Your tax-deductible contributions are gratefully accepted. Checks payable to Lit City may be sent to Lit City / 7725 Cohn St. / New Orleans, LA 70118. (504) 861-8832 www.litcity.net tod@litcity.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:28:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge and Ange Mlinko reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was requested that we forward this announcement to the list; all queries should go to the original sender. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- From: Sarah Gambito Subject: April Poetry Reading EXPERIMENTS AND DISORDERS presents: Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge and Ange Mlinko reading poetry Wednesday, April 24th 8 pm Dixon Place @Vineyard Theatre 309 East 26th Street Second Floor New York, NY 10010 212-532-1546 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:42:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: LazyPop@aol.com From: Poetics List Administration Subject: D_Hess (1998-2002) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear list moderator(s), Please forward this message to the poetics list since it looks like my hotmail account is permanently gone. If people sent me messages as of Monday afternoon I probably will not be able to access them. Right now I'm using this email address: lazypop@aol.com. thanks, david hess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:43:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: "Beth Lifson" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Introducing "Siege Machines: Readings by Experimental Women Writers" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Siege Machines: Readings by Experimental Women Writers at Pond Gallery 214 Valencia St b/w 14th & Duboce April 25: Sarah Rosenthal and Dana Teen Lomax May 30: Camille Roy, Mary Burger and Laura Moriarty June 27: Yedda Morrison and Patricia Dienstfrey July 25: Dodie Bellamy and Sarah Anne Cox all readings at 8 pm for more information contact Beth Lifson 415-503-0845 or beth_lifson@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:41:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Aniversary Poem? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, A friend of mine recently asked me to find him a poem that he could read for his parents' 50th wedding aniversary since I am "the poet." So I figured I'd throw the question out to you all while I did some snooping myself. Needed: One short to medium length poem that would be suitably celebratory to read on the occasion of a fiftieth wedding aniversary. Thanks to all in advance -- back channel, front channel, choose the channel of your choice (rumblek@bellsouth.net) I hope everyone else is getting some springtime too..... Ken ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:16:33 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Reading in SF: Kovac/Young: 4/20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poetry Reading Deirdre Kovac Stephanie Young Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:30 p.m. 777 Valencia Street, San Francisco at New College of California $5 donation (all monies will go to the readers) Deirdre Kovac, a one-time Detroiter, now lives in Brooklyn, where she coedits Big Allis magazine with Melanie Neilson. Her work has recently appeared in 100 Days (Barque Press), Crayon, and The Capilano Review (Boo). Her first book, Mannerism, is indeterminately forthcoming. This is her first reading in San Francisco. Stephanie Young's poetry has appeared in Mirage #4/Period[ical], Comet, Chasepark, Vert and Shampoo. She's the new winner of the Bay Area Awards from New Langton Arts. She currently lives in Alameda after stints in Berkeley and Oakland. Organized by Yedda Morrison, Kevin Killian, and Dodie Bellamy, with the support of Blue Books and the Poetics Program of New College of California. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:36:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: nature poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Yes, Ivan, I think I misread the tone of your post entirely. Sorry for my hasty blunder. "Us, the white people" am the Big Reason the ecology & much else is literally screwed: no argument there. No argument, either, that we are all included in that "us." If there is much to be discussed, I'd say it falls under the heading of what to do about it, or even how to begin talking & thinking about what to do about it. I stand by what I said about PC, however wrong the context: it strikes me that one as easily avoids thinking about these issues by hiding behind that ready term as one does in spouting truisms, however well intended. Maybe we both have something to learn. Best, Mark _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:02:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: little flower poems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM > >In a message dated 4/16/02 2:22:35 PM, immerito@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > >>"Sheesh" seems very dismissive and uncritical. I think Laura's comment, >>however it was intended, points to a real heroic undertaking on the part >>of >>Juliana's "little flower poem." > >An overreaction to Sheesh, don't you think? I'd hate to think that a poet >who finds herself in a pleasant environment, and is moved to express, might >hesitate, concerned over how to politicize the experience. I was reacting >only to the accusation that the failure to do so is somehow immoral. Can't >recall if that came from Laura, or Juliana. Whomever, that's a sheesh if >there ever was one. Best, Bill OK, fair enough--about the overreaction, I mean. A lot of freight to impose on a little sheesh sound, I guess. I still disagree, however, that a poet's hesitation over how to politicize an impulse to express something necessarily warrants a sheesh. As to the suggestion that failure to do so is necessarily immoral, well, then, we might be moving _closer_ toward sheeshdom. But even there, I think it's better to take moral opinions seriously, at least when they are offered in a controlled and civilized context of rational exchange, than simply to dismiss them with subverbal scoffing noises. Even--or especially--if you disagree with them. Maybe I'm still overreacting. Probably. If it means anything, I was more interested in raising the objection as a bridge to commenting on the topic of nature poetry's role in contemporary practice than in scolding you or anyone else, Bill. But I can see how it came off that way. I do think it's important to maintain a friendly tone in these electronic contexts, lest things start to resemble the PMLA "Forum." So just for the record, I respect your opinion, and I want everyone to respect everyone else's opinion, and I just want Mom and Dad to stop _yelling_ at each other and for everything to be the way it used to be! Uh, where was I? Kasey (Captain of the Sheesh Police) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:03:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: POETRY PROJECT EVENTS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit POETRY PROJECT ANNOUNCEMENTS The Poetry Project will be offering a signed, limited-edition broadside to commemorate THE VERMONT NOTEBOOK celebration on WEDNESDAY, APRIL 24 [8:00 PM]. Measuring 19 x 15 and printed in a letterpress edition, the broadside will sell for $75 until May 1st, $100 thereafter. Sales from the edition will benefit the Poetry Project. To purchase a broadside, send check or money order to: The Poetry Project 131 E. 10th St. New York, NY 10003 For more announcements, please go to http://www.poetryproject.com/announcements.html. *************************** POETRY PROJECT EVENTS APRIL 19, FRIDAY [10:30 p.m.] THE ARTIST AND THE STAGE APRIL 22, MONDAY [8:00 p.m.] A. E. WAYNE AND BRANDON DOWNING APRIL 24, WEDNESDAY [8:00 p.m.] JOHN ASHBERY AND JOE BRAINARD'S THE VERMONT NOTEBOOK NO EVENTS APRIL 26, FRIDAY For more details, please visit http://www.poetryprojet.com/calendar.html. *************************** APRIL 19, FRIDAY [10:30 p.m.] THE ARTIST AND THE STAGE In two parts actors interpret interview transcripts between artists and interviewers featured in The Journal of Contemporary Art, Vol. 7.2 (1995). Actors will interpret the exchanges between artist Annette Messager and Natasha Leoff. Directed by Caitlin Gibbon, Willie Doughterty and Tim Maul, and Jay Ward. Performance artist and actor Chris Kaufman will present his 25 minute, one-man show, Nhar. (For more info on Chris Kaufman go to http://www.harringtonkaufman.com.) APRIL 22, MONDAY [8:00 p.m.] A. E. WAYNE AND BRANDON DOWNING A.E. WAYNE curates the BBR Reading Series in Brooklyn. She is currently editing a collection of art writings by the poet Barbara Guest. BRANDON DOWNING is the author of The Shirt Weapon, just out from Germ Monographs, and has recently finished a long collage-narrative based on the works of the Victorian novelist George Meredith, Lake Antiquity. APRIL 24, WEDNESDAY [8:00 p.m.] JOHN ASHBERY AND JOE BRAINARD'S THE VERMONT NOTEBOOK Readings from The Vermont Notebook by JOHN ASHBERY, ANSELM BERRIGAN, and ELAINE EQUI accompanied by slide projections of Joe Brainard's drawings will celebrate Granary Book's republication of this Ashbery/Brainard classic. JOHN ASHBERY is the author of over twenty books of poetry, including Your Name Here, Girls on the Run: A Poem, and Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror (1975), which received the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry. ELAINE EQUI's most recent books are Voice Over, Friendship with Things, and Decoy. ANSELM BERRIGAN's latest title is Zero Star Hotel and several other of his works can be found online. NO EVENTS APRIL 26, FRIDAY -- Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. Trains F, 6, N, R. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. If you are currently on our email list and would like to be on our regular mailing list (so you can receive a sample issue of The Poetry Project Newsletter for FREE), just reply to this email with your full name and address. Hope to hear from you soon!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:19:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: Special Issue on Gender and WWI Comments: To: hdsoc-l@uconnvm.uconn.edu, Victoria@listserv.indiana.edu, modbrits@listserv.kent.edu, h-amstdy@h-net.msu.edu, modernism@lists.village.virginia.edu, h-afro-am@h-net.msu.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Special Issue of Modernism/Modernity on Gender and WWI (ordering info. below) Table of Contents 1)"The Follies of War: Cross-Dressing and Popular Theatre on the British Fr= ont Lines, 1914-1918," David A. Boxwell 2)"'The Cult of the Clitoris': Anatomy of a National Scandal," Jodie Medd 3) "'Kiss me, Hardy': Intimacy, Gender and Gesture in World War I Trench Li= terature, Santanu Das 4)"'A Peculiar Power about Rotenness':Annihilating Desire in James Hanley's= 'The German Prisoner,'" Anne Rice 5) "Authenticity and Art in Trauma Narratives of World War I," Margaret Hig= onnet 6) "Mary Borden's _Forbidden Zone_: Women's Writing in No Man's Land," Arie= la Freedman 7) "_Mrs. Dalloway's Postwar Elegy: Women, War and the Art of Mourning," Ch= ristine Froula $11.00 for single issues at ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:52:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: May 2002 at Small Press Traffic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit May 2002 at Small Press Traffic Wednesday, May 1, 2002 at 7:30 pm CCAC STUDENT AWARDS READING Friday, May 3, 2002 at 7:30 pm BARBARA HENNING & EDITH JENKINS Friday, May 17, 2002 at 7:30 pm SARAH MANGOLD & FRED MOTEN Sunday, May 19 at 2:00 pm CROSSTOWN TRAFFIC: JAIME CORTEZ & LAURA ELRICK Friday, May 31, 2002 at 7:30 pm NORMA COLE & JOCELYN SAIDENBERG For details please see our website or call for a flyer. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 Eighth Street San Francisco, California 94107 415/551-9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:52:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu / housepress Subject: new from housepress: le Heup's BLAZONTRASH and Basinski's A POET DREAMS ABOUT POETRY TOON MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable new out of the gate from housepress are two new visual poetry chapbooks: Jason Le Heup's BLAZONTRASH which questions corporate positioning and entrepreneurship through the = language of medieval shields (Blazons) and crests. published in an edition of 60 hand-bound and numbered copies at $4.00 = each. Michael Basinski's A POET DREAMS ABOUT POETRY TOON a commentary on performance poetry and the structures of poetry readings = in Basinski's unimitatable poetry/concrete/cartoon style=20 published in an edition of 60 hand-bound and numbered copies at $4.00 = each. for more information, or to order copies,=20 contact derek beaulieu at derek@housepress.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:25:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: nature poetry and the Black Plague Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <> Well, Ivan is not, frankly, my favorite nickname :-( , but if somebody is concerned about environment, I suggest they turn their attention to the key issue that can help unravel the web of problems surrounding its preservation and revival: Oil is the Black Plague of our times. Our reliance on fossil fuels (19th century technology) is at the heart of the current political/environmental crisis, and it will take good 20-30 years to switch gears toward cleaner 211st century technologies (if we realize it now, that is). I say the Arab countires will do us a favor if they cut our oil supply tomorrow, rather than a couple of years down the line. But they won't do it willingly, since they understand a neccessity of feeding our addiction, and need our $$$$. Drilling in Alaska and wasting a couple of pristine places left on this planet won't help anybody, though it will certainly prolong the crisis. Only when billion$, not million$, will pour into clean technologies research; when the big oil companies will realize that the well is drying up, we are going to see some results. This success will: a) weaken the u.s. interest in supporting theocratic/dictatorial regimes rich in oil around the world, and completely realign its foregn policy; as well as b) stop a lion's share of the world's polluting emissions; What do you think? i think that would be a good start. And alas, political or ecological correctness doesn't seem to be a part of this, or any other real solution. best, Igor Satanovsky <> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:26:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: Nature Poem from Kyger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>oh gawd laud laud laud i once had a student who once no I had the privilege of instructing a young woman who wrote a true story essay subject how whenever she hurt herself as a child her Mom would say that she should say little flower, little flower, help me to reveal my power" now as a "left legger" by default I wanted to say gag me but instead said that's very sweet I'll have to remember that line while I was thinking I still prefer a hearty fuck you. Gotta go time to go outside and eat some dirt Sheila >>> The freight that particular little flower poem was hauling was Catholic mysticism. The "Little Flower" in that rhyme refers to St. Therese of Lisieux (sp?). She lived a short, extremely painful life (I forget which congenital disease she had) as a postulant nun in a humble, holy way sometime in the nineteenth century. LF ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:45:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Nature Poem from Kyger In-Reply-To: <33DB6DF9C51BD511BC4B00D0B75B2D8101708783@esfpb03.dol.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 4:26 PM -0400 4/18/02, Fargas Laura wrote: > >>>oh gawd laud laud laud i once had a student who once no I had the >privilege >of instructing a young woman who wrote a true story essay subject how >whenever she hurt herself as a child her Mom would say that she should say >little flower, little flower, help me to reveal my power" now as a "left >legger" by default I wanted to say gag me but instead said that's very sweet >I'll have to remember that line while I was thinking I still prefer a hearty >fuck you. Gotta go time to go outside and eat some dirt Sheila >>> > > > The freight that particular little flower poem was hauling was Catholic >mysticism. The "Little Flower" in that rhyme refers to St. Therese of >Lisieux (sp?). She lived a short, extremely painful life (I forget which >congenital disease she had) as a postulant nun in a humble, holy way >sometime in the nineteenth century. > > LF actually though she had a painful death (in her early 20s) from tb i think she didnt have such a terrible life. she wrote her memoirs. also, weren't the writings of st francis of assisi referred to as the "little flowers of st francis"? -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:45:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Oppen influence In-Reply-To: <99.24d0a715.29e9a5a8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello All--One of these days I'd like to write something about the rather odd reception history of George Oppen's poetry. I'm especially struck by the disparity between the fact that lots of people have never heard of him, and the opposing fact that many of the people who do know his work think he is not merely "good" but a major twentieth-century poet. Then there's the strange business of him winning the Pulitzer, but not seeming to get much other "official" recognition. Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing from poets who feel their work has been influenced by Oppen's, and of course it would be helpful to hear how people would characterize this influence. If you're not one of these poets yourself, but have suggestions about other candidates I'd love to hear these as well. And actually, any thoughts on the phenomenon of his reception would be welcome. If I do get to write something, I'd certinly give appropriate credit. I don't think I've come across much (if anything at all) on this list about the publication of the handsome new Collected Poems, but it seems an occasion worth marking. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:16:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: monikered romance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Chris and all -- Chris Stroffolino asked me: Just two questions for now--- 1) Are you saying the word "selfish" is a "fancier moniker" than the word "violence?" It seems that you are reacting to the word "selfish" here. How do you see the difference between "selfish" and "violence?" (this is one question) Eliz: I think that yes selfishness can be a form of violence, but sometimes this remains on a fairly abstract (tho still often hurtful, injurious) level of consciousness, appearing within intimacy, more public human interaction, various locales. So the difference is perhaps one of degree -- yes that's what I'd say. But also, violence to me indicates physical harm as well, and a decision to do that harm. Selfishness can appear more as an unconscious, passive (tho still often hurtful, injurious) feature of an individual or group. Well I could say more, this isn't meant to close off other meanings of those two multisyllabics. I think that when Spahr wrote that phrase "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and the selfish violence of terrorism" she fell into a bit of the privelige and imperialism she is indicting. I am not indicting her for that, I am quite sure I fall into it as well; Spahr and I are both Americans. Bluntly my sense of that phrase was like "well you are the gang and we are the police"; we might be just as bad as you but we have some sort of reason/sanction behind us. Again, I do not mean to insult Ms. Spahr at all by writing this, just to add in to the conversation. 2) As for the assertion about the "romanticization" of nature--- now I have not read the article either so don't know how the term is, er, "deployed" or "used" there, but it seems to that it doesn't necessarily imply that "we and our (sic) actions are separate from nature" insofar as some (if not all) "romantic" views do ground themselves in the idea of the self as nature, and vice versa...But maybe "romanticization" is the wrong word? Because it's too much like "idealization?" rather than say Shelley's "rendering and receiving." So do you think "romanticism" is what is meant by "traditional romanticization" is my question... And, okay, one more---so what alternatives? What of a so-called "primitive" polytheism, with gods and goddesses named after rivers and trees, etc., represented, on one level, as humans, of both sexes, arguing over whether men or women enjoys sex more, etc? Is that "traditional romanticization" too? Eliz: One answer is, I don't know. However, I will say that when Mr. Perry wrote "...a postmodern nation of nature that perversely naturalizes environmental degradation by way of cheap deconstruction of 'nature' is surely worse than the traditional romanticization of it" -- or, rather, when I read it, I felt like he was trying to include a really vast sense of ways of writing about nature, and I find it actually a very tiny swathe, and one which limits the understanding of nature poetry, the nature of us as writing beasts, etc, in a much more profound way than did Spahr's "nature poetry is immoral" quote/thought that he jumps off from. I don't like or trust the word "primitive". This gets back to a comment I made on list to Kasey M. a while back -- my sense of history and etc doesn't preclude esoteric knowledge on the part of any group. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson wrote: >Hey everyone, > >I just want to chime in about Juliana Spahr's comment. When I read it in >PPNL it wasn't recognizable to me. That is, she made some similar comments >at her reading at Small Press Traffic in San Francisco last fall, and these >comments did not seem as extreme as that quote looked on the pages of PPNL. >Rather, I thought they were quite thoughtful and as such tended to provoke >thought, questions, etc --- certainly no form of censorship for goodness >sake. > >But while I'm online I must also point to something Spahr herself wrote in >the April/May PPNL. (& kudos to Ange Mlinko for editing such a conversation >stirrer). Towards the end of her essay, "Poetry in a Time of Crisis", Spahr >writes: "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and >the selfish violence of terrorism." My problem with this phrase is a matter >of word choices. I think it is very important to be careful here. The US's >privilege and imperialism are forms of violence, and giving them fancier >monikers does no service to understanding these complex situations. > >Finally, I had a problem with David Perry's third paragraph (still in the >April/May PPNL) in which he writes: "...a postmodern nation of nature that >perversely naturalizes environmental degradation by way of cheap >deconstruction of 'nature' is surely worse than the traditional >romanticization of it." Briefly, this phrasing keeps us stuck in an >abstract >(& alors, binaryish) notion that we and are actions are separate from >nature. Perhaps Perry went on to address this, but I stopped there. > >And I'll stop here. Had been thinking on these things anyway as with >Marcella Durand I am planning an event/talk/etc about ecology and poetry >for >next season at Small Press Traffic. > >Cheerio, > >Elizabeth Treadwell > >http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:31:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: Nature Poem from Kyger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: [mailto:damon001@UMN.EDU] Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 4:45 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Nature Poem from Kyger At 4:26 PM -0400 4/18/02, Fargas Laura wrote: > >>>oh gawd laud laud laud i once had a student who once no I had the >privilege >of instructing a young woman who wrote a true story essay subject how >whenever she hurt herself as a child her Mom would say that she should say >little flower, little flower, help me to reveal my power" now as a "left >legger" by default I wanted to say gag me but instead said that's very sweet >I'll have to remember that line while I was thinking I still prefer a hearty >fuck you. Gotta go time to go outside and eat some dirt Sheila >>> > > > The freight that particular little flower poem was hauling was Catholic >mysticism. The "Little Flower" in that rhyme refers to St. Therese of >Lisieux (sp?). She lived a short, extremely painful life (I forget which >congenital disease she had) as a postulant nun in a humble, holy way >sometime in the nineteenth century. > > LF Maria Damon: actually though she had a painful death (in her early 20s) from tb i think she didnt have such a terrible life. she wrote her memoirs. also, weren't the writings of st francis of assisi referred to as the "little flowers of st francis"? >> I thought I remembered reading that she had some bone trouble as well -- arthritis or cancer?-- something that made her nearly immobile by the time she was in her mid teens. Again, as I recall, it was why all that patient, diligent floor scrubbing (real life holystoning!) was such an act of witness. LF -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:48:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Oppen influence In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii interesting too that a poet of slightly more "mainstream" sensibility (and a lot more accepted by, say, the "New Yorker" readership) like Louise Gluck is such a deep fan--Oppen is the subject of not just one but several of the essays in her book "Proofs and Theories" that came out a couple of years ago. She begins one essay like this: "Within the discipline of criticism, nothing is more difficult than praise. To speak of what you love--not admire, not know to be good, not find reasonably interesting, not feel briefly moved or charmed by--to speak of such work is difficult because the natural correlatives of awe and reverence are not verbal. "I have been, for some time, trying to speak on spaper of the work of George Oppen, with this overwhelming impediment." ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:12:51 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Nature Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No I just write what comes into my old head and I write very rapidly by an intuitive kind of process: I dont understand how the mind works. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Massoni" To: Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 12:37 AM Subject: Nature Poem > Oh richard'tis true c'est vrai tell me do you do what i do string all those > prompts together into one long poem? Sheila ps the hills are alive with the > sound of music and my corn is almost as high without inhaling as my infanta > Castile > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:58:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: new from housepress: le Heup's BLAZONTRASH and Basinski's A POET DREAMS ABOUT POETRY TOON MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you are a phenomenon. i still stand by my words. J ----- Original Message ----- From: "derek beaulieu / housepress" To: Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:52 PM Subject: new from housepress: le Heup's BLAZONTRASH and Basinski's A POET DREAMS ABOUT POETRY TOON new out of the gate from housepress are two new visual poetry chapbooks: Jason Le Heup's BLAZONTRASH which questions corporate positioning and entrepreneurship through the language of medieval shields (Blazons) and crests. published in an edition of 60 hand-bound and numbered copies at $4.00 each. Michael Basinski's A POET DREAMS ABOUT POETRY TOON a commentary on performance poetry and the structures of poetry readings in Basinski's unimitatable poetry/concrete/cartoon style published in an edition of 60 hand-bound and numbered copies at $4.00 each. for more information, or to order copies, contact derek beaulieu at derek@housepress.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:27:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: */viral sonnet/* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII */viral sonnet/* ppxxxxcritic (null)all. runtime error heya agai TLOSS error SING error all a mat DOMAIN errorc.tiff if gu R6028in th Pos song, i sense n.herent segregation/objectification according 2 the s zzayers and pitfalls of -PE _^[] X_^[] w:RVW BBNu t8Xt QRS3 SVWj Sj WSj Qj(P SVWj VWh| VWhx VWht $VWP SUVWj YYPU YYPU YYPU YYPU YYPS _^][ SPSSW Yj W YYPh ~(WV | Command "ESC" not defined for this screen. _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:33:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Re: */viral sonnet/* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Alan, sweet poem but I don't think you need four "YYPU"s in the fourth stanza. Three would work just fine. excited to be back, dave ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:25:30 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: Tinfish web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm happy to announce that Tinfish Press has a temporary website at the = following address: http://maven.english.hawaii.edu/tinfish. =20 There you'll find images of some of Tinfish's provocative designs, and a = reminder of how to order Tinfish products. I'll be away for the next 11 days--in Los Angeles and Cambridge, = England--so for now aloha, Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:03:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi neighbors, I have some posts I need to catch up to, but I feel it is most urgent to respond to David Baratier's last post entitled "Renatured Poetry" in which he addresses (exiles?) me and Jeffrey Jullich in one fell swoop. Not only am I taken aback by the greeting's disturbing coupling, I remain baffled by the meaning implied in the subsequent body of text. Quite frankly, I am tired of not comprehending SNIPPY intellectual comments. I *know* I might not be the sharpest tool in the whorehouse or have the funnest vocabulary in the whole wide world, but I do make an effort to understand and listen to others' problems and questions. Not many people know I used the word "atavism" in a poem when I was 18. I can't use that word anymore because it brings back memories of Ativan (we had a painful breakup). A few years ago I wanted to start a literary movement called Profanism -- I couldn't take any more of that sacred this, sacred that, "everything is holy" Ginsbergian rap -- only to realize that people would probably make fun of me by saying stuff like "Oh, there goes Hess again with his Ibu-Profanism ha ha ha ha".... Having lost my Hotmail account doesn't help either. I wonder if there was any foul play involved. I've built up a lot of stress and anxiety as a result of it so I need to send out a personal query. If anyone will be in the St. Louis area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, please contact me. thanks for your time, dave ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:54:46 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: Re: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No sex. The St. Louis Cardinals are much better than sex. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hess" To: Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:03 PM Subject: Some Emotions > Hi neighbors, > > I have some posts I need to catch up to, but I feel it is most urgent to > respond to David Baratier's last post entitled "Renatured Poetry" in which he > addresses (exiles?) me and Jeffrey Jullich in one fell swoop. Not only am I > taken aback by the greeting's disturbing coupling, I remain baffled by the > meaning implied in the subsequent body of text. Quite frankly, I am tired of > not comprehending SNIPPY intellectual comments. I *know* I might not be the > sharpest tool in the whorehouse or have the funnest vocabulary in the whole > wide world, but I do make an effort to understand and listen to others' > problems and questions. Not many people know I used the word "atavism" in a > poem when I was 18. I can't use that word anymore because it brings back > memories of Ativan (we had a painful breakup). A few years ago I wanted to > start a literary movement called Profanism -- I couldn't take any more of > that sacred this, sacred that, "everything is holy" Ginsbergian rap -- only > to realize that people would probably make fun of me by saying stuff like > "Oh, there goes Hess again with his Ibu-Profanism ha ha ha ha".... > > Having lost my Hotmail account doesn't help either. I wonder if there was any > foul play involved. I've built up a lot of stress and anxiety as a result of > it so I need to send out a personal query. If anyone will be in the St. Louis > area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, > please contact me. > > thanks for your time, > dave ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:14:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: loving machines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i love my machines :sawgrass slides one way, cuts another. sawgrass inscribes itself on retinal matrices. it says 'sondheim, there is nothing to look at.' it says, 'sondheim, you will have nothing to see.' i hide behind tender matrices of digital format and rastered resolutions inscribed with rectilinear coordinates. sawgrass says, 'sondheim, this is your imaginary.' sawgrass says, 'inscribe yourself.':liguus fasciatus verge everywhere. i live hammock-snails. immobile, untouchable, fragile, over fifty forms. worlds-creating against polluted waters cleansed by cattail-marsh. my machines allow me to see beneath every surface. inside my surface i am dirty dirty dirty. i run in shame from liguus fasciatus, hammock-snails. i do not touch them / touch myself. i pick my face to ruin. i cannot bear my face.:i am so poor i love my machines. years ago i built my machines. i wear machines hide my insecurity / my stupidity / my unoriginality. i wear machines hide my weakness / my shame / my embarrassment. my machines say 'sondheim is not a pariah.' i am run by my machines in this direction. it is winter-season and my machines run me. my machines take me places. they move my body. they pleasure my mind. my machines do not say shame shame shame. my machines do not say regret every day. my machines empty me into them. shame shame we do feel nothing.:5.5megapixel: 2.1megapixel 3.3megapixel 1megapixel 5.5megapixel i am so poor i love my machines. years ago i built my machines. i wear machines hide my insecurity / my stupidity / my unoriginality. i wear machines hide my weakness / my shame / my embarrassment. my machines say 'sondheim is not a pariah.' i am run by my machines in this direction. it is winter-season and my machines run me. my machines take me places. they move my body. they pleasure my mind. my machines do not say shame shame shame. my machines do not say regret every day. my machines empty me into them. shame shame we do feel nothing. replace your sawgrass slides one way, cuts another. sawgrass inscribes itself on retinal matrices. it says 'sondheim, there is nothing to look at.' it says, 'sondheim, you will have nothing to see.' i hide behind tender matrices of digital format and rastered resolutions inscribed with rectilinear coordinates. saw grass says, 'sondheim, this is your imaginary.' sawgrass says, 'inscribe yourself.' red-winged-blackbird _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:01:59 -0400 Reply-To: gmcvay@patriot.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: That Takes Ovaries! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear women and men who care about women, There is a powerful new book out called _That Takes Ovaries! Bold Females and Their Brazen Acts_, edited by Rivka Solomon, New York: Three Rivers Press (an imprint of Random House), ISBN 0-609-80659-9. The book is a collection of short true stories by women who committed gutsy deeds that took, not balls, but ovaries. Here are three excellent reasons to order this book immediately. 1. It will inspire you. I must warn you: some of the stories will make you very sad. But you will also find hope. The stories come from women of every class, ability/disability, age/lack thereof (one contributor was five years old when she spoke up for the right to play dodgeball with the boys), color/ethnicity, orientation, you name it. This is in no way a male-bashing book; rather, it showcases courageous acts by women, and there are quite beautiful moments that describe great support from men. 2. Editor Rivka Solomon is encouraging locally-organized open mikes centered around _TTO!_ and other women's acts of boldness, and further encouraging a portion of any monies collected at such events to be given to Equality Now, www.equalitynow.org. Equality Now is a global grass-roots organization that works to stop female genital mutilation ("female circumcision") and sex slavery. 3. There is a brief essay by me on pp. 48-49. Check out Rivka's well-deserved smile next to her bio in the back matter. This anthology was a huge labor of solidarity and love. Spread the word, as Eve Ensler might say. Check out www.thattakesovaries.org. It's worth your time. All my best, and ovu later! Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:09:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah Dave the name of my first husband I'd love to have sex with you in St. Louis but my second husband Mr. Mike the eyetalian would object i can just picture it you singing meet me in St. Louis, Louis meet me at the fair. i used the word paradoxically in a poem at 14 this got me out of a lot of am/PM detention for acting out it was said bring honor to thigh school which leads right into he was on her and off her all night all right. This be Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:10:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit how do you do it with a baseball? Sheila silly me it's the bat? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:38:47 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: monikered romance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Elizabeth---- Thanks for your careful responses..... Since they are specifically taking up DP's and JS's points more than mine, I won't attempt to respond by speaking for them.... The one thing I'd add is that I think we agree about "primitive" which is why I put it in quotes..... just to be clearer; I probably should have said "so-called primitive" (or non-pejorative primitive).... take care; I hope you get responses---- Chris Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson wrote: > Hi Chris and all -- > > Chris Stroffolino asked me: > > Just two questions for now--- > > 1) Are you saying the word "selfish" is a "fancier moniker" > than the word "violence?" It seems that you are reacting to > the word "selfish" here. How do you see the difference > between "selfish" and "violence?" (this is one question) > > Eliz: I think that yes selfishness can be a form of violence, but sometimes > this remains on a fairly abstract (tho still often hurtful, injurious) level > of consciousness, appearing within intimacy, more public human interaction, > various locales. So the difference is perhaps one of degree -- yes that's > what I'd say. But also, violence to me indicates physical harm as well, and > a decision to do that harm. Selfishness can appear more as an unconscious, > passive (tho still often hurtful, injurious) feature of an individual or > group. Well I could say more, this isn't meant to close off other meanings > of those two multisyllabics. I think that when Spahr wrote that phrase > "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and > the selfish violence of terrorism" she fell into a bit of the privelige and > imperialism she is indicting. I am not indicting her for that, I am quite > sure I fall into it as well; Spahr and I are both Americans. Bluntly my > sense of that phrase was like "well you are the gang and we are the police"; > we might be just as bad as you but we have some sort of reason/sanction > behind us. Again, I do not mean to insult Ms. Spahr at all by writing this, > just to add in to the conversation. > > 2) As for the assertion about the "romanticization" of nature--- > now I have not read the article either so don't know how > the term is, er, "deployed" or "used" there, but it seems > to that it doesn't necessarily imply that "we and our (sic) > actions are separate from nature" insofar as some (if not all) > "romantic" views do ground themselves in the idea of > the self as nature, and vice versa...But maybe "romanticization" > is the wrong word? Because it's too much like "idealization?" > rather than say Shelley's "rendering and receiving." > So do you think "romanticism" is what is meant by > "traditional romanticization" is my question... > > And, okay, one more---so what alternatives? What of > a so-called "primitive" polytheism, with gods and goddesses > named after rivers and trees, etc., represented, on one level, > as humans, of both sexes, arguing over whether men or women > enjoys sex more, etc? Is that "traditional romanticization" too? > > Eliz: One answer is, I don't know. However, I will say that when Mr. Perry > wrote "...a postmodern nation of nature that > perversely naturalizes environmental degradation by way of cheap > deconstruction of 'nature' is surely worse than the traditional > romanticization of it" -- or, rather, when I read it, I felt like he was > trying to include a really vast sense of ways of writing about nature, and I > find it actually a very tiny swathe, and one which limits the understanding > of nature poetry, the nature of us as writing beasts, etc, in a much more > profound way than did Spahr's "nature poetry is immoral" quote/thought that > he jumps off from. > > I don't like or trust the word "primitive". This gets back to a comment I > made on list to Kasey M. a while back -- my sense of history and etc doesn't > preclude esoteric knowledge on the part of any group. > > Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson wrote: > > >Hey everyone, > > > >I just want to chime in about Juliana Spahr's comment. When I read it in > >PPNL it wasn't recognizable to me. That is, she made some similar comments > >at her reading at Small Press Traffic in San Francisco last fall, and these > >comments did not seem as extreme as that quote looked on the pages of PPNL. > >Rather, I thought they were quite thoughtful and as such tended to provoke > >thought, questions, etc --- certainly no form of censorship for goodness > >sake. > > > >But while I'm online I must also point to something Spahr herself wrote in > >the April/May PPNL. (& kudos to Ange Mlinko for editing such a conversation > >stirrer). Towards the end of her essay, "Poetry in a Time of Crisis", Spahr > >writes: "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and > >the selfish violence of terrorism." My problem with this phrase is a matter > >of word choices. I think it is very important to be careful here. The US's > >privilege and imperialism are forms of violence, and giving them fancier > >monikers does no service to understanding these complex situations. > > > >Finally, I had a problem with David Perry's third paragraph (still in the > >April/May PPNL) in which he writes: "...a postmodern nation of nature that > >perversely naturalizes environmental degradation by way of cheap > >deconstruction of 'nature' is surely worse than the traditional > >romanticization of it." Briefly, this phrasing keeps us stuck in an > >abstract > >(& alors, binaryish) notion that we and are actions are separate from > >nature. Perhaps Perry went on to address this, but I stopped there. > > > >And I'll stop here. Had been thinking on these things anyway as with > >Marcella Durand I am planning an event/talk/etc about ecology and poetry > >for > >next season at Small Press Traffic. > > > >Cheerio, > > > >Elizabeth Treadwell > > > >http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:41:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: that Susan Howe book In-Reply-To: <001b01c1e726$2ee33420$b75637d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ok now for the record I'm about 2/3 through the book and I really recommend it to everyone--it chooses not to be exhaustive: besides the introduction there are close readings of two of the books from "singularities" and then two of the books in "europe of trusts" (now re-released! plus there's one at the strand for the budget shopper!) and then a longer fourth chapter on iconography, etc. in "eikon" and "non-conformist"-- it's fun and also very loving; the introductory chapter is really fabulous and thought-provoking... anyhow, I hope others will read the book. ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:07:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Some Emotions In-Reply-To: <4a.a24fae3.29f0ff0e@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > If anyone will be in the St. Louis > area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, > please contact me. Dave, You're on. Give me a call. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:12:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Vernon Frazer reads from his poetry April 20 at the Harvard Coop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vernon Frazer will read from his poetry Saturday April 20 2:00 P.M. The Harvard Coop 1400 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA Frazer's poetry has appeared in Caf=E9 Review, Lost and Found Times, = Moria, Shampoo, Sidereality and many other literary magazines. He has = written six books of poetry. He introduced IMPROVISATIONS (I-XXIV), his = most recent poetry collection, at The Poetry Project at St. Mark's = Church in Manhattan in 2001. Frazer has also produced five recordings of = poetry with free jazz accompaniment and appeared as guest poet on = several recordings with the late saxophonist Thomas Chapin, including = THE JAZZ VOICE, a CD compilation of jazz vocalists and poets = co-sponsored by the Knitting Factory and The Village Voice. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:13:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Jack Kimball and John Godfrey at DH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed J A C K K I M B A L L J O H N G O D F R E Y Saturday, April 27th Double Happiness 173 MOTT STREET, JUST SOUTH OF BROOME ST. $4 admission goes to support the readers Readings will begin promptly at 4:30 PM. Jack Kimball spent eight years in Japan before returning to Mass. last summer. He edits the zine The East Village as well as Faux Press. New books include Frosted from Pote & Poets and Manship from Detour. His favorite figure of the moment is prosopopeia. John Godfrey is the author of Midnight on Your Left (The Figures, 1988). His most recent book is a collection of prose poems entitled Pushing the Mule (The Figures, 2001). A new manuscript will be published by Adventures in Poetry in 2002. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:08:10 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: Some Emotions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't make sex in saint Louie (the concenpt is nice though), but agree with what I think was the point ofyour complaint, that we are all supposed to be sooooper intellllectual here and just in the same way everyone else is and that we are lll supposed to look down on the same stuff, like poetry we actually like reading, just that, because it's pleasant to read. Just bought two volumes that I enjoyed. One was SKID by Dean Young, the other was Wake by Bin Ramke. Both of these are pretty "avant garde" in the sensse that one's mother wouldn't like them and they probably mention body parts and Gnosticism on the same page. But neither is a fully blessed language poet (Young comes close but only when he tries to be, which doesn't count. Ramke writes his own kind of poem, the kind that quotes things on the safety of beekeepers (written in 1899) at random times; *wear a veil" is part of that advice, which has more resonance now than even when it was written. I liked and reqd much of these books upon buying them. Thus they generated emotion in me. The poems themselves, especiallay Ramke, had emotion. It isn't a poetic crime. The weren't about flowers, I don't think, although some came close, involving conversations had while lying in a field. I have the same must-read emotions when I buy a volume of Bernstein (I love With Strings, especially the poem which uses boldface so well, (usually a poetic crime...) Silliman is almost as much fun, and there are others. But like all of us, I couldn't evben understand Langpo if I had never read or responded to anything else first! Millie, full of bursting emotions, waiting to be stroked by emotional poetry which will be meaninigfull and deep, and remind me of Sharon Olds and how my dog raped my cat as I watched, transfixed, excited, superorgasmic, at age seven... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Aaron Belz Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:07 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Some Emotions > If anyone will be in the St. Louis > area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, > please contact me. Dave, You're on. Give me a call. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:59:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Mitch Highfill and Marianne Shaneen at Double Happiness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed M I T C H H I G H F I L L M A R I A N N E S H A N E E N Saturday, April 20th (TOMORROW!) Double Happiness 173 MOTT STREET, JUST SOUTH OF BROOME ST. $4 admission goes to support the readers Readings will begin promptly at 4:30 PM. Marianne Shaneen is a fiction writer, filmmaker, conjurer of the archaic yet-to-be, and sentimental insurrectionary who lives in Brooklyn. An as-yet-untitled chapbook is forthcoming from Detour. Mitch Highfill is the author of The Blue Dahlia (Detour), Turn (Situations) and Liquid Affairs (United Artists). An as-yet-untitled book is due from Situations in 2002. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:22:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: lineage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i was a little and happy graduate student at nyu studying (happily) with philip levine and sharon olds when someone told me "you have to read the new jorie graham book it's unbelievable how bad it sucks" (that was swarm and it sort of blew my mind) so then in one of the notes it mentioned that one of the poems (Underneath 13) (my favorite actually) was dedicated to Michael Palmer so i was like: Michael Palmer? oh he's that guy who read at UB last year but i skipped the reading even though he looked sort of CUTE in the posters... so then I read "At Passages"--which *really* blew my mind and I kept talking about it for just...days...and this other student in the program said something like "Oh you like Michael Palmer, you should read Fanny Howe." fanny howe? oh she's the one i always skip over in the bookstore when i am looking for *Marie* Howe. she's not the one with all the sentences dripping down the page is she? no? ok. i'll try that. oh well and that was me tumbling down, breaking my crown, the other come tumbling after... ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:14:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carmen Gimenezrosello MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CALL FOR POETRY SUBMISSIONS parlorgames is a San Francisco-based publication dedicated to what is = new and true in contemporary poetry. All styles are welcome, with = preference given to poems that pull rabbits from their hats, enter a = doorway as if it were an opening for rhapsody, and, in the end, take the = tops off of our heads. We will be reading submissions March 21-April 30. Unsolicited manuscripts will not be returned unless accompanied by a = SASE. Please limit submissions to three poems. Simultaneous submissions are = accepted if noted. Manuscripts accepted for publication become the property of parlorgames = unless otherwise indicated. All rights reserved. All rights revert to = the author upon publication. Please send submissions to: parlorgames@aol.com (no queries, please) or by mail: Attn: parlormaster 748 Page Street, #6 San Francisco, CA 94117 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:03:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: Some Emotions In-Reply-To: <4a.a24fae3.29f0ff0e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >If anyone will be in the St. Louis >area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, >please contact me. > >thanks for your time, >dave > First off, Dave, you might need to thank somebody for more than their time....... Second off -- if that's all it takes: Anyone in the Winston-Salem, NC, area who's interested in some sex (can't afford to get to St. Louis, sorry) please contact me. I'm even sort of cute -- curly brown hair, 5'10", late twenties, dimples, Irish ancestry. Possible LTR............... Ken ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:29:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Ken Rumble [mailto:rumblek@BELLSOUTH.NET] Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:04 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Some Emotions >If anyone will be in the St. Louis >area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, >please contact me. > >thanks for your time, >dave > First off, Dave, you might need to thank somebody for more than their time....... Second off -- if that's all it takes: Anyone in the Winston-Salem, NC, area who's interested in some sex (can't afford to get to St. Louis, sorry) please contact me. I'm even sort of cute -- curly brown hair, 5'10", late twenties, dimples, Irish ancestry. Possible LTR............... Ken >>>>> Personally I just want a young adult preferably female Labrador Retriever, though a collie will be fine, too. DC area... LF ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:44:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Some Emotions In-Reply-To: <33DB6DF9C51BD511BC4B00D0B75B2D8101708798@esfpb03.dol.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Laura, I have two orange cats that might be nice for a fine evening of petting and scratching. They are cute and don't eat much. I love them and you can't have them but if you come to Buffalo NY you can have some time with them :-) Best, Geoffrey -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Fargas Laura Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:29 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Some Emotions -----Original Message----- From: Ken Rumble [mailto:rumblek@BELLSOUTH.NET] Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:04 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Some Emotions >If anyone will be in the St. Louis >area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, >please contact me. > >thanks for your time, >dave > First off, Dave, you might need to thank somebody for more than their time....... Second off -- if that's all it takes: Anyone in the Winston-Salem, NC, area who's interested in some sex (can't afford to get to St. Louis, sorry) please contact me. I'm even sort of cute -- curly brown hair, 5'10", late twenties, dimples, Irish ancestry. Possible LTR............... Ken >>>>> Personally I just want a young adult preferably female Labrador Retriever, though a collie will be fine, too. DC area... LF ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:40:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laura if you do find a Lab or Collie that can reply to that email, please let me know! Especially if it is on the poetics list! J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fargas Laura" To: Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Some Emotions > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Rumble [mailto:rumblek@BELLSOUTH.NET] > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:04 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Some Emotions > > > >If anyone will be in the St. Louis > >area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, > >please contact me. > > > >thanks for your time, > >dave > > > > > First off, Dave, you might need to thank somebody for more than their > time....... > > Second off -- if that's all it takes: > > Anyone in the Winston-Salem, NC, area who's interested in some sex (can't > afford to get to St. Louis, sorry) please contact me. I'm even sort of > cute -- curly brown hair, 5'10", late twenties, dimples, Irish ancestry. > Possible LTR............... > > Ken >>>>> > > Personally I just want a young adult preferably female Labrador Retriever, > though a collie will be fine, too. DC area... > > LF > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:02:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Barr Subject: Re: Some Emotions In-Reply-To: <001001c1e7e2$80c98480$5495ad8e@ab.hsia.telus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The problem is, on the internet, she'll never know for sure if it is a dog. (groan) b >Laura if you do find a Lab or Collie that can reply to that email, please >let me know! Especially if it is on the poetics list! > >J > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Fargas Laura" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:29 PM >Subject: Re: Some Emotions > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ken Rumble [mailto:rumblek@BELLSOUTH.NET] >> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:04 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Some Emotions >> >> >> >If anyone will be in the St. Louis >> >area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, >> >please contact me. >> > >> >thanks for your time, >> >dave >> > >> >> >> First off, Dave, you might need to thank somebody for more than their >> time....... >> >> Second off -- if that's all it takes: >> >> Anyone in the Winston-Salem, NC, area who's interested in some sex (can't >> afford to get to St. Louis, sorry) please contact me. I'm even sort of >> cute -- curly brown hair, 5'10", late twenties, dimples, Irish ancestry. >> Possible LTR............... >> >> Ken >>>>> >> >> Personally I just want a young adult preferably female Labrador Retriever, > > though a collie will be fine, too. DC area... > > > > LF > > -- Brandon Barr University of Rochester http://brandonbarr.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:50:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Some Emotions In-Reply-To: <000501c1e766$b5d80c40$6401a8c0@Mac> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >No sex. The St. Louis Cardinals are much better than sex. > >Susan > That is generally true. But they could use a good 4th and 5th starter. -- George Bowering Always liked people named Williams. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:53:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Some Emotions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > If anyone will be in the St. Louis >> area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, > > please contact me. > >Dave, >You're on. Give me a call. > >-Aaron What about Springfield? Is that close enough? -- George Bowering Always liked people named Williams. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:14:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lassie, Lassie, I need some trimeter quick! Run to the well! or The WELL! Laura -----Original Message----- From: jason christie [mailto:jasonc@TELUSPLANET.NET] Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:41 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Some Emotions Laura if you do find a Lab or Collie that can reply to that email, please let me know! Especially if it is on the poetics list! J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fargas Laura" To: Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Some Emotions > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Rumble [mailto:rumblek@BELLSOUTH.NET] > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:04 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Some Emotions > > > >If anyone will be in the St. Louis > >area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, > >please contact me. > > > >thanks for your time, > >dave > > > > > First off, Dave, you might need to thank somebody for more than their > time....... > > Second off -- if that's all it takes: > > Anyone in the Winston-Salem, NC, area who's interested in some sex (can't > afford to get to St. Louis, sorry) please contact me. I'm even sort of > cute -- curly brown hair, 5'10", late twenties, dimples, Irish ancestry. > Possible LTR............... > > Ken >>>>> > > Personally I just want a young adult preferably female Labrador Retriever, > though a collie will be fine, too. DC area... > > LF > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:20:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tracy Ruggles Subject: Re: Some Emotions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought the adage was that on the internet, no one (not even you) knows you're a poet. --T > The problem is, on the internet, she'll never know for sure if it is a dog. > > (groan) > > b > > >Laura if you do find a Lab or Collie that can reply to that email, please > >let me know! Especially if it is on the poetics list! > > > >J > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Fargas Laura" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:29 PM > >Subject: Re: Some Emotions > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ken Rumble [mailto:rumblek@BELLSOUTH.NET] > >> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:04 PM > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Some Emotions > >> > >> > >> >If anyone will be in the St. Louis > >> >area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, > >> >please contact me. > >> > > >> >thanks for your time, > >> >dave > >> > > >> > >> > >> First off, Dave, you might need to thank somebody for more than their > >> time....... > >> > >> Second off -- if that's all it takes: > >> > >> Anyone in the Winston-Salem, NC, area who's interested in some sex (can't > >> afford to get to St. Louis, sorry) please contact me. I'm even sort of > >> cute -- curly brown hair, 5'10", late twenties, dimples, Irish ancestry. > >> Possible LTR............... > >> > >> Ken >>>>> > >> > >> Personally I just want a young adult preferably female Labrador Retriever, > > > though a collie will be fine, too. DC area... > > > > > > LF > > > > > > -- > Brandon Barr > University of Rochester > http://brandonbarr.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:58:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit o a p et? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracy Ruggles" To: Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 3:20 PM Subject: Re: Some Emotions > I thought the adage was that on the internet, no one (not even you) knows you're a poet. > > --T > > > The problem is, on the internet, she'll never know for sure if it is a dog. > > > > (groan) > > > > b > > > > >Laura if you do find a Lab or Collie that can reply to that email, please > > >let me know! Especially if it is on the poetics list! > > > > > >J > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Fargas Laura" > > >To: > > >Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:29 PM > > >Subject: Re: Some Emotions > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Ken Rumble [mailto:rumblek@BELLSOUTH.NET] > > >> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:04 PM > > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> Subject: Re: Some Emotions > > >> > > >> > > >> >If anyone will be in the St. Louis > > >> >area from now until June 1 and would like to get together for some sex, > > >> >please contact me. > > >> > > > >> >thanks for your time, > > >> >dave > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> First off, Dave, you might need to thank somebody for more than their > > >> time....... > > >> > > >> Second off -- if that's all it takes: > > >> > > >> Anyone in the Winston-Salem, NC, area who's interested in some sex (can't > > >> afford to get to St. Louis, sorry) please contact me. I'm even sort of > > >> cute -- curly brown hair, 5'10", late twenties, dimples, Irish ancestry. > > >> Possible LTR............... > > >> > > >> Ken >>>>> > > >> > > >> Personally I just want a young adult preferably female Labrador Retriever, > > > > though a collie will be fine, too. DC area... > > > > > > > > LF > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Brandon Barr > > University of Rochester > > http://brandonbarr.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:25:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeff Chester Subject: Re: Some Emotions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello all, It seems any "serious" responses that any of you might have had to the recent (and not-so-recent) posts by David Hess have never made it past the SEND button. This is not only an interesting and engaging topic, but one that, at least to my mind, is extremely relevant to the current hegemonic "climate" that involves us all in one way or another. It seems to me that it's either being ignored or trivialized by many of the responses thus far. The tangential discussion of "Nature Poetry" has been quite a diversion, but when do get back to the more difficult question(s) of ^Óconfessionalist^Ô (emotional) VS. ^Ómaterialist^Ô (intellectual) modes, ETC. Where has the prodigious Jeffrey Jullich been? Others? Gun-shy? Best, Jeff PS: "Who stole the soul?" -Public Enemy _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:10:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/19/02 6:25:57 PM, chester_jeff@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << The tangential discussion of "Nature Poetry" has been quite a diversion,=20 but when do get back to the more difficult question(s) of =E2=80=9Cconfessionali= st=E2=80=9D (emotional) VS. =E2=80=9Cmaterialist=E2=80=9D (intellectual) modes, ETC. >> Another false division. Thinking vs. the box -- seems the box wins. Best,=20 Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:30:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tracy Ruggles Subject: Re: Some Emotions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, I was thinking my post was playing a bit on the "seriousness" of it all, Jester Cheff. On the internet no=20 one knows you're a dog, In a poem, no=20 one knows your not. I mean, what's a poet got=20 to do with poetry? The poet, duh, confesses and materializes, but=20 who are you when you write inside the box? It's an old question of where= =20 the aye is -- but all this talk, well on the poetics list no=20 one knows you're a dog. > Hello all, >=20 > It seems any "serious" responses that any of you might have had to the > recent (and not-so-recent) posts by David Hess have never made it past th= e > SEND button. >=20 > This is not only an interesting and engaging topic, but one that, at leas= t > to my mind, is extremely relevant to the current hegemonic "climate" that > involves us all in one way or another. >=20 > It seems to me that it's either being ignored or trivialized by many of t= he > responses thus far. >=20 > The tangential discussion of "Nature Poetry" has been quite a diversion, = but > when do get back to the more difficult question(s) of =ECconfessionalist= =EE > (emotional) VS. =ECmaterialist=EE (intellectual) modes, ETC. >=20 > Where has the prodigious Jeffrey Jullich been? Others? Gun-shy? >=20 > Best, Jeff >=20 > PS: "Who stole the soul?" -Public Enemy >=20 >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world=EDs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 01:22:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Presentation at New Jersey Institute of Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:44:47 -0400 From: "Funkhouser, Chris" === On Tuesday May 7 Writer and Artist Alan Sondheim will be making the third presentation in the 2002 NJIT New Media Performance Series. Sondheim is the author of many publications, including .echo (Alt-X) and Disorders of the Real (Station Hill); he edited the collections Being On Line (Lusitania) and Individuals: Post-Movement Art in America (Dutton). For many years he has been a prolific producer, theorist, and publisher of digital art and literature. To view some of his work in cyberspace, see Internet Text, graphics: http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt/ trAce projects: http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm This event will be held at 2:30 p.m in 1400 GITC Building on the NJIT campus. For more information on the series, see http://web.njit.edu/~newrev/NMPS --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:27:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Presentation room MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - The Presentation room On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, she wrote:02 Information and Knowledge M On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, she wrote:rsity. The papery U. Ferguson" On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, she wrote: On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, she wrote:search so far undertaken for h On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, she wrote: On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, she wrote: Publicness and/or privateness is really important I think. I am Marjory> 1 Oct 4 wolf scientific theory superior, religious Marjory wryting email list and there are a lot of computer-manipulated ordation) deals with the question in terms of generated texts that I simply don't understand. Nor do I the cold.all recip Then there are ingroup/outgroup etc. ways of looking at work - but I'm Postpone are so convinced that loathe to follow through too much on the binaries - A Presentation room is requested character A Presentation room is requested the kids, Jennifer. 'Thanks Jennifer. You know we're leaving. You know we can't deal with this. Marjory told me to warn you. Marjory's back, Houdini's dead, Hitchcock's got the contract.' 'Alan, this is a cop-out. This is poor writing, writing povera. This is stricken writing. You're taking too much celexa. You're too out of it. You're succumbing to them. You like doctors too much. You take too many pills. You've had too many blood tests. You've had too many probings. You should leave the presentation room.' 'This is the Presentation room of Jennifer. This is the body of Alan. This is the mind-minding of Nikuko. This is the meat-flesh of Julu.' 'The Presentation room.' red-winged-blackbird. the resurrection fern. _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:33:15 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: To More Than One (part two) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To Aaron: You may certainly call, but you=E2=80=99ll only be pressing your l= uck. Dave=20 doesn=E2=80=99t date Calvinists. (Personal note: You should=E2=80=99ve follo= wed me to=20 Dressel=E2=80=99s. I sat near a Stein scholar and asked her if she was writi= ng her=20 dissertation like the way Stein writes. Salad almost flew out of her mouth.) =20 To Susan: No, Susan -- YOU are better than sex. =20 To George: Springfield is very do-able. Go on.... =20 To Ken: List your real measurements if you=E2=80=99re going to send out your= own=20 query. And don=E2=80=99t expect me to pay for your plane ticket to St. Louis= . It=E2=80=99s=20 not like I have sex anymore, now that I finally discovered my natural gift=20 for celibacy. I just sit near a desk and write essays. =20 To Sheila: That=E2=80=99s too bad you are married. Maybe we could do the pho= ne thing=20 (I=E2=80=99ll pay). Or how about some extreme cuddling? I=E2=80=99m an amazi= ng cuddler -- I=20 can last for hours! =20 To Millie: I=E2=80=99m glad you are able to find contemporary writers that p= roduce=20 emotion in you. Ever since I read that Pope=E2=80=99s penis poem and the one= about=20 the slugs (both from Satan Says, I think) I=E2=80=99ve had trouble taking Ol= ds=20 seriously. Bernstein and Silliman I find philosophically deficient.Their=20 thought is in their essays and not in the poems. The better language poets=20= =E2=80=93=20 Watten, Perelman, Harryman, Armantrout =E2=80=93 think with their language,=20= which is=20 crucial since it gives the work its form, makes it =E2=80=9Crigorous.=E2=80= =9D I don=E2=80=99t know=20 Ramke and Young except that I heard both read. My impression was that they=20 were both destined for Club Average. =20 To Jeff: Don=E2=80=99t let those snippy comments bug you. Like you and Kasey= Silem=20 Mohammad, I am shocked that an eminent scholar of Derrida such as Bill Austi= n=20 would resort to the snippy comment. Would Derrida approve or disapprove of=20 such undialectical mutterings like =E2=80=9Csheesh?=E2=80=9D Would he hold a= seminar on it?=20 The undecidability is unbearable. =20 To Matt: Thanks again for still not being me. I read your response and will=20 respond again shortly. Hopefully, this will steer the discussion back to the= =20 matter at hand =E2=80=93 what exactly does =E2=80=9Cmaterial practice,=E2= =80=9D=E2=80=9Cmaterialist=20 critique=E2=80=9D and similar terminology mean. =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:39:00 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: To More Than One (part two) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave. Iii I I wld li ke to commmittt a sex criemm xcr crime with you: but are you sure your nt related to Rudolf? Horridible man he was you know....yrs in vast ....ahhh ah something.... r rchrd ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hess" To: Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 6:33 PM Subject: To More Than One (part two) To Aaron: You may certainly call, but youâ^À^Ùll only be pressing your luck. Dave doesnâ^À^Ùt date Calvinists. (Personal note: You shouldâ^À^Ùve followed me to Dresselâ^À^Ùs. I sat near a Stein scholar and asked her if she was writing her dissertation like the way Stein writes. Salad almost flew out of her mouth.) To Susan: No, Susan -- YOU are better than sex. To George: Springfield is very do-able. Go on.... To Ken: List your real measurements if youâ^À^Ùre going to send out your own query. And donâ^À^Ùt expect me to pay for your plane ticket to St. Louis. Itâ^À^Ùs not like I have sex anymore, now that I finally discovered my natural gift for celibacy. I just sit near a desk and write essays. To Sheila: Thatâ^À^Ùs too bad you are married. Maybe we could do the phone thing (Iâ^À^Ùll pay). Or how about some extreme cuddling? Iâ^À^Ùm an amazing cuddler -- I can last for hours! To Millie: Iâ^À^Ùm glad you are able to find contemporary writers that produce emotion in you. Ever since I read that Popeâ^À^Ùs penis poem and the one about the slugs (both from Satan Says, I think) Iâ^À^Ùve had trouble taking Olds seriously. Bernstein and Silliman I find philosophically deficient.Their thought is in their essays and not in the poems. The better language poets â^À^Ó Watten, Perelman, Harryman, Armantrout â^À^Ó think with their language, which is crucial since it gives the work its form, makes it â^À^Ürigorous.â^À^Ý I donâ^À^Ùt know Ramke and Young except that I heard both read. My impression was that they were both destined for Club Average. To Jeff: Donâ^À^Ùt let those snippy comments bug you. Like you and Kasey Silem Mohammad, I am shocked that an eminent scholar of Derrida such as Bill Austin would resort to the snippy comment. Would Derrida approve or disapprove of such undialectical mutterings like â^À^Üsheesh?â^À^Ý Would he hold a seminar on it? The undecidability is unbearable. To Matt: Thanks again for still not being me. I read your response and will respond again shortly. Hopefully, this will steer the discussion back to the matter at hand â^À^Ó what exactly does â^À^Ümaterial practice,â^À^Ýâ^À^Ümaterialist critiqueâ^À^Ý and similar terminology mean. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 03:08:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Lerner Subject: No: a journal of the arts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing No: a journal of the arts We are considering submissions of poetry, images, and critical reviews for the inaugural issue due in Fall of 2002. Please send poems and poetry reviews (include SASE) by August 15th to Ben Lerner Box 1852 Brown University Providence, RI 02912 Send images and art reviews (include SASE) by August 15th to Deb Klowden 260 19th Street Santa Monica, CA 90402 General questions to Nojournal@hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:35:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Some Emotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Look at it this way: David Hess got an offer to have two sex kittens = keep him company in St. Louis. All I managed when I visited there for a = week in 1969 was to see PUTNEY SWOPE, an outrageous and enjoyable movie, = but nothing that could potentially start a mock-Poetics Singles Group.=20 Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:45:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: The Presentation room MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan alas das is Alice alors damn NJIT is right around the literal corner from where i often adjunct in fact I could just scream and am doing so because I may not be able to be in 2 places at the same time as well as on time however find web for weird NJ & while in Newark go see where Dutch Schultz was shot it's like right around the corner lastly we pronounce Newark the new ark of the covenant brought to you by Connecticut farms then taken over by the krauts and overrun by the Irish to be supplanted by the eyetalians nork Sheila how veddy interesting spellchecker tries to replace schultz with schmaltz and considering the beer barons of Newark who took so much water from the underground aquifer that they had to leave town for St. Louis makes really wish to join Dave there for his offer.njit of course turns to nit ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:06:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu / housepress Subject: KSW Needs Your Help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > KSW NEEDS YOUR HELP > > The Kootenay School of Writing is deep into its annual financial crisis. > Usually we skimp, worry and let the bills sit in a drawer until our > funding comes through. And we're doing that. But this year the situation > is worse than ever. This is partly due to the expiry last year of a > three-year grant from Edgecombe Realty. Now we've found out that we're > not receiving a Casino grant for 2002-2003. We've not received any > funding from the City of Vancouver Office of Cultural Affairs for several > years. The Canada Council does not provide operational funding. Our only > remaining operational funding is from the BC Arts Council, and we won't > be certain about that until July or August. > > The Collective has decided to take the unusual measure of asking you, the > friends of the KSW, for assistance. If we don't get some cash within the > next couple of weeks we may not be able to pay the rent. What we really > need is to secure our space until the end of the calendar year so we have > more time to find some ongoing operating funding. > > WE ARE NOT SUGGESTING A MINIMUM CONTRIBUTION - ANY CONTRIBUTION WILL HELP. > > PLEASE SEND CHEQUES TO: 201-505 Hamilton Street, Vancouver BC V6B 2R1 > > That was the bottom line. Now the preamble. You can skip the rest if > you're already writing that cheque. > > The Kootenay School of Writing has provided a center for innovative > (experimental, avant-garde, radical - the adjectives shift) writing for > almost twenty years. Hundreds of poets and other language artists have > read and taught at the KSW during its existence. The School is operated > by a Collective of eight to ten writers. Membership in the Collective is > open and the personnel changes over time - dozens of writers have > belonged to the Collective at one time or another. > > In the past two or three years since we moved to the Hamilton Street > location, we have tried to develop greater integration and consistency > between our various activities. For example, we've linked extended, > curated series of readings and talks with publications (chapbooks, W, > Raddle Moon); we've developed and refined a library that parallels our > history and our ongoing endeavours; we've linked our courses of study > with the readings and other events that we organize. We also put more > emphasis on writing activities, study groups and publications without > reducing the number and quality of events. We've continued to invite many > poets - local, regional, national and international - to read their work > and deliver theoretical and historical talks which have engaged and > contributed to our community. > > Here's a list of the past year's activities and events, not including > informal discussion groups and other uses of the space. (A list of readers > whose KSW readings are recorded and in our archives - currently being > digitized - is attached.) > > Ammiel Alcalay reading and talk. > Rod Smith reading. > Clint Burnham and Michael Barnholden talk (at the Portland Hotel). > George Quasha and Charles Stein readings. > Charles Stein talk (at the Charles Olson Society). > Roy Miki talk on Roy Kiyooka. > Dorthy Trujillo Lusk and Gerald Creede reading. > Against Work as Such: a series of readings and talks curated by Roger > Farr: Clint Burnham, Peter Culley, Mark Leier, Michael Barnholden. > Meredith Quartermain talk on Stevie Smith > Ben Friedlander reading. > Rob Manery talk on Paul Celan. > Denise Riley lecture (at SFU Harbour Centre) and reading (at KSW). > Stupidity, a study group (Ted Byrne). > Peter Culley reading. > Avery Burns reading. > Ralph Maud talk on Charles Olson. > Lisa Robertson book launch (at Heritage Hall). > Meredith Quartermain and Aaron Vidaver reading. > David Fujino reading. > Wayde Compton talk on Isaac Dickson and Mifflin Gibbs. > Ted Byrne reading. > Peter Culley and Colin Smith reading (at the Western Front). > Subject, Power, Public Order and Security, a study session. > Ken Edwards reading and talk. > George Bataille, a study group (Dylan Cree). > Louis Cabri talk on Earl Birney. > Louis Cabri talk on Bruce Andrews. > Practical Negation, a study group (Aaron Vidaver) > Investigating Standard English, a study group (Reg Johanson) > Whiteness and Critique of the Totality, a discussion. > Rob Manery book launch. > Bernadette Mayer reading and talk. > Sianne Ngai, Kevin Davies, Deirdre Kovac and Dan Farrell reading (at the > Western Front) and panel discussion. > Implicatedness, a study group (Margot Leigh Butler). > Maxine Gadd book launch. > Christian Bok reading. > Steve Collis book launch. > Kirsten Forkert talk. > Kevin Killian reading and talk. > Dodie Bellamy reading and talk. > Lytle Shaw reading. > Roy Miki book launch. > Alan Halsey and Geraldine Monk reading. > Myung Mi Kim reading and talk. > > We did all of this on an annual operating budget of about 15,000. That > includes readers fees, travel for out of town visitors, a one day a week > office person, rent, publications, mailings, printing of brochures, > phone/internet, incidentals. The only other source of funding is > occasional collaborations with publishers, artist run centers, and > institutes; the sliding scale door fee of $0 to $5; a little bit from > concessions (refreshments, book sales). The Canada Council usually funds > less than half the readers we apply for (twelve is the maximum). The > quantity of volunteer labour on the part of the Collective is very > substantial. > > We've never had to do this before. Think about it. You don't receive a > slick annual fundraising letter from us asking for money. Please help! > Contributions will be anonymous. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:44:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: arctic drilling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit surprised, amidst all the talk about nature, that this hasn't been mentioned yet... http://www.senate.gov/legislative/vote1072/vote_00071.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:51:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Brent Hamilton Subject: Re: Oppen influence In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To Steve Shoemaker, I like very much the sentence of Michael Davidson's introduction to his recent edition of Oppen's poems that places the problem of Oppen's reception within the answerability to life of Thirties formalism: "Feeling that he could neither write poems in service to social causes nor sequester those causes in hermetic formalism, he stopped writing altogether for a twenty-five year period . . . ." Even more interesting is Davidson's putting this crisis within the context of George and Mary's civil disobedience in rent-relief sit-ins (for one hears tales in Oppen's case of more questionable acts of propaganda by the deed). By whatever measure we judge Oppen's political activities (I couldn't read Oppen until after he died, Robert Duncan told Burton Hatlen -- paraphrasing here, don't have the interview in front of me --, because he was a Stalinist, and it was enough that we were speaking to each other!), his work changed considerably in those twenty-five years, so the problem of reception begins with his own later reading/reception/revision of his earlier work. The contemporary reception strikes me as pretty much as you'd expect -- I don't find it all that odd. Writers from nearly every conceivable tradition revere his work (me too), but the scholarship is thin, and this can be explained. The contributions of Davidson and Rachel Blau DuPlessis (esp. the letters) are enormous, but other than Gluck (who -- and this is odd -- writes about his rhetoric, in comparison with Berryman, who Oppen despised) and Taggart, I don't see a lot that's all that valuable, and this is particularly disappointing when it comes from those (Kenner, Pinsky, Olds, Hass) who knew him and might have made more hay of it. Of those who still dismiss him, we may take for instance the sentence or two laid down by William Logan in a recent (loony) Parnassus review of the LOA 20th century anthology. I see such a significant dismissal this way: Thirties formalism (in the U.S. and elsewhere) develops an analysis of the productivity in poetic language which hinges on the utopian cultural aspirations of pre-WWII internationalism, politically, diplomatically, aesthetically. Oppen felt he had to recuperate that modernism during a moment when its failure was unimpeachable. To me his response is one of the glories of 20thC art. But we haven't escaped the Cold War moment, as our Near-Eastern foreign policy clearly shows. I know that to hear this roses won't bloom from the ears of postmodernists, but Duncan's remark still has currency: Oppen's work is a response to his Stalinism, the New Left analysis of Stalinism is still in crisis, the Bushees are still riding roughshod over the Left. Let's change our foreign policy and don't forget to read Oppen. precipitantly, Jeff Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:21:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Brent Hamilton Subject: Re: Oppen influence (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If this comes thru twice please excuse. My first posting. . . To Steve Shoemaker, I like very much the sentence of Michael Davidson's introduction to his recent edition of Oppen's poems that places the problem of Oppen's reception within the answerability to life of Thirties formalism: "Feeling that he could neither write poems in service to social causes nor sequester those causes in hermetic formalism, he stopped writing altogether for a twenty-five year period . . . ." Even more interesting is Davidson's putting this crisis within the context of George and Mary's civil disobedience in rent-relief sit-ins (for one hears tales in Oppen's case of more questionable acts of propaganda by the deed). By whatever measure we judge Oppen's political activities (I couldn't read Oppen until after he died, Robert Duncan told Burton Hatlen -- paraphrasing here, don't have the interview in front of me --, because he was a Stalinist, and it was enough that we were speaking to each other!), his work changed considerably in those twenty-five years, so the problem of reception begins with his own later reading/reception/revision of his earlier work. The contemporary reception strikes me as pretty much as you'd expect -- I don't find it all that odd. Writers from nearly every conceivable tradition revere his work (me too), but the scholarship is thin, and this can be explained. The contributions of Davidson and Rachel Blau DuPlessis (esp. the letters) are enormous, but other than Gluck (who -- and this is odd -- writes about his rhetoric, in comparison with Berryman, who Oppen despised) and Taggart, I don't see a lot that's all that valuable, and this is particularly disappointing when it comes from those (Kenner, Pinsky, Olds, Hass) who knew him and might have made more hay of it. Of those who still dismiss him, we may take for instance the sentence or two laid down by William Logan in a recent (loony) Parnassus review of the LOA 20th century anthology. I see such a significant dismissal this way: Thirties formalism (in the U.S. and elsewhere) develops an analysis of the productivity in poetic language which hinges on the utopian cultural aspirations of pre-WWII internationalism, politically, diplomatically, aesthetically. Oppen felt he had to recuperate that modernism during a moment when its failure was unimpeachable. To me his response is one of the glories of 20thC art. But we haven't escaped the Cold War moment, as our Near-Eastern foreign policy clearly shows. I know that to hear this roses won't bloom from the ears of postmodernists, but Duncan's remark still has currency: Oppen's work is a response to his Stalinism, the New Left analysis of Stalinism is still in crisis, the Bushees are still riding roughshod over the Left. Let's change our foreign policy and don't forget to read Oppen. precipitantly, Jeff Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:55:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ethan Paquin Subject: THIS WEEK! SLOPE EDITIONS LAUNCH PARTIES -- FIND ONE NEAR YOU!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SLOPE EDITIONS, the offshoot press of acclaimed journal SLOPE, celebrates the release of its first book, Jenny Boully's THE BODY, in **4** East Coast locations this week! Jenny Boully has raised the creative bar with her wholly unique blend of poetry, memoir and -- the footnote. Parts of THE BODY are appearing in "The Best American Poetry 2002" (NY: Scribner's) and "Essay: An Experiment" (MN: Graywolf). The book has been lauded as "brilliant" by Thalia Field, "delicious" by Robert Kelly, and "terrific" by David Lehman. ISBN# 0-9718219-09, $12.95, 80 pp., softcover. Buy online May 1 at www.SlopeEditions.org or via direct mail order; to be distributed to the trade this summer. **1** TUESDAY, APRIL 23 AMHERST, MA ATTICUS BOOKS SLOPE EDITIONS LAUNCH PARTY! 7:30 P.M. Reader: JENNY BOULLY Reception, refreshments **2** WEDNESDAY, APRIL 24 PROVIDENCE, RI PROVIDENCE COLLEGE SOFT CENTER 6 P.M. Reader: JENNY BOULLY, hosted by PETER JOHNSON **3**FRIDAY, APRIL 26 BOSTON, MA ONI GALLERY WASHINGTON ST., CHINATOWN (CHINATOWN T STOP - ORANGE LINE) 7 P.M. Readers: EILEEN MYLES, JENNY BOULLY, JOSHUA BECKMAN, KEVIN GOODAN **4**MONDAY, APRIL 29 NEW YORK, NY KGB BAR 7:30 p.m. Readers: JENNY BOULLY, JEFFREY HARRISON, hosted by DAVID LEHMAN For directions or more info: Ethan Paquin, Editor-in-Chief Slope Editions 603-275-0310 ethan@slope.org Christopher Janke, Senior Editor Slope Editions (413) 773-7935 chris@slope.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 15:40:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: juliana spahr Subject: intent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i notice the conversation has moved on to eros, but just to meekly beg apologies... i think the problem here is just that my language was sloppy. somedays i just need to beg for one's assumptions that i'm not really trying to be reductive and hope you'll accept my get out of jail free card from the close readings. although i guess it is good for me to learn how to say things more clearly and part of writing is learning that. i did a rewrite of this essay when i gave the talk again last month and i went back and looked at the rewrite and noticed i had changed that sentence to this: "Davies's language invites compassion as it calls attention to selfishness: the selfishness of terrorism and the selfishness of bloody retaliation." (i think gary sullivan is going to publish the rewrite at readme at http://home.jps.net/~nada/ sometime soon.) anyway, i hope this makes it clear, although i thought the essay as a whole did this, that i am well aware that the u.s. is not at all innocent in any of this and do not support most of the u.s. government's foreign policy. re: Elizabeth T. Jackson > > group. Well I could say more, this isn't meant to close off other meanings > > of those two multisyllabics. I think that when Spahr wrote that phrase > > "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and > > the selfish violence of terrorism" she fell into a bit of the privelige and > > imperialism she is indicting. I am not indicting her for that, I am quite > > sure I fall into it as well; Spahr and I are both Americans. Bluntly my > > sense of that phrase was like "well you are the gang and we are the police"; > > we might be just as bad as you but we have some sort of reason/sanction > > behind us. Again, I do not mean to insult Ms. Spahr at all by writing this, > > just to add in to the conversation. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:01:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: intent MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT michael Eigen on _Ecstasy_ and positive negative might be relevant here. psychologically speaking there is a distinction between self-interest and harming another. I don't know about the psychoanalitic, philosophical,or poetical ramifications of this but do know the failure to draw this distinction leads to a lot of problems in the popular mind. tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 16:11:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: Oppen influence (fwd) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To Jeffrey and the list: I've gotten some very thoughtful responses to my post about Oppen's influence. Most of these have been backchannel, and so have my responses to the responses, and I guess I'm inclined to keep it that way. I am a little surprised that I haven't heard from *more* people, and I'm especially surprised not to have heard from any women. Oppen was in serious correspondence with quite a number of women poets during his lifetime, the most well known example being Rachel Blau DuPlessis, but also Levertov, Di Prima, and so on. And, of course, there's Mary, whose words were, of course, inextricably entangled with George's, as George emphasized in his lovely dedication the New Directions Collected Poems. I'm grateful for the new Davidson-edited volume but I have to say that the omission of this dedication strikes me as not just a minor oversight but a serious flaw. Steve On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Jeffrey Brent Hamilton wrote: > If this comes thru twice please excuse. My first posting. . . > > To Steve Shoemaker, > > I like very much the sentence of Michael Davidson's introduction to his > recent edition of Oppen's poems that places the problem of Oppen's > reception within the answerability to life of Thirties formalism: > "Feeling that he could neither write poems in service to social causes nor > sequester those causes in hermetic formalism, he stopped writing > altogether for a twenty-five year period . . . ." Even more interesting > is Davidson's putting this crisis within the context of George and Mary's > civil disobedience in rent-relief sit-ins (for one hears tales in Oppen's > case of more questionable acts of propaganda by the deed). By whatever > measure we judge Oppen's political activities (I couldn't read Oppen > until after he died, Robert Duncan told Burton Hatlen -- paraphrasing > here, don't have the interview in front of me --, because he was a > Stalinist, and it was enough that we were speaking to each other!), his > work changed considerably in those twenty-five years, so the problem of > reception begins with his own later reading/reception/revision of his > earlier work. > > The contemporary reception strikes me as pretty much as you'd expect -- I > don't find it all that odd. Writers from nearly every conceivable > tradition revere his work (me too), but the scholarship is thin, and this > can be explained. The contributions of Davidson and Rachel Blau DuPlessis > (esp. the letters) are enormous, but other than Gluck (who -- and this is > odd -- writes about his rhetoric, in comparison with Berryman, who Oppen > despised) and Taggart, I don't see a lot that's all that valuable, and > this is particularly disappointing when it comes from those (Kenner, > Pinsky, Olds, Hass) who knew him and might have made more hay of it. Of > those who still dismiss him, we may take for instance the sentence > or two laid down by William Logan in a recent (loony) Parnassus review of > the LOA 20th century anthology. > > I see such a significant dismissal this way: Thirties formalism (in the > U.S. and elsewhere) develops an analysis of the productivity in poetic > language which hinges on the utopian cultural aspirations of pre-WWII > internationalism, politically, diplomatically, aesthetically. Oppen felt > he had to recuperate that modernism during a moment when its failure was > unimpeachable. To me his response is one of the glories of 20thC art. But > we haven't escaped the Cold War moment, as our Near-Eastern foreign policy > clearly shows. I know that to hear this roses won't bloom from the ears > of postmodernists, but Duncan's remark still has currency: Oppen's work is > a response to his Stalinism, the New Left analysis of Stalinism is still > in crisis, the Bushees are still riding roughshod over the Left. Let's > change our foreign policy and don't forget to read Oppen. > > precipitantly, > > Jeff Hamilton > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:12:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark In-Reply-To: <200204201147.g3KBl5Ee023773@manatee.unf.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 39 (2002) Three Poems by James Sallis The Death of Virgil | The Death of Poetry | Artaud James Sallis' most recent collection of poems, Sorrow's Kitchen, came out from Michigan State UP in 2000. Black Night's Gonna Catch Me Here: Selected Poems is due out from Salmon Publishing, County Clare, Ireland, late this year, 2002. [There is no duplication between the two volumes.] Other books include Chester Himes: A Life, named a notable book of the year, 2001, by the New York Times, and Ghost of a Flea, his most recent novel, 2001, that occasioned an essay for the Times' ongoing feature "Writers on Writing." Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:16:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Response to Matt (part two) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (sorry about the screwed-up formatting again) Dear Matt, =20 Many thanks for your second response. As you know from readin= g=20 my essay in Jacket #12 and participating in this dialogue, I=E2=80=99m not a= gainst=20 =E2=80=9Cdiscourse=E2=80=9D or intellectual activity per se, though I admit=20= to having come=20 out against Discourse =E2=80=93 institutionally sanctioned language -- in ot= her=20 writings. (Discourse with a big =E2=80=9CD=E2=80=9D seems to be to intellect= ual practice=20 what rationalism is to Reason.) I feel like you are afraid that I am going t= o=20 corrupt people with my pleasure-inducing =E2=80=9Crhetorical handgun=E2=80= =9D as you call it=20 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CReaders derive pleasure from the incongruity between what= is said and=20 what is meant=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 and cause them to stop thinking, or rather=20= cause them to=20 reject =E2=80=9Ccritical theory=E2=80=9D and return to watching episodes of=20= =E2=80=9CFriends.=E2=80=9D I=20 think you should specify what ideology and sets of discourses you see=20 yourself defending as the umbrella term =E2=80=9Ccritical theory=E2=80=9D do= esn=E2=80=99t help me=20 understand what it is you find so harmful about =E2=80=9CPoetry as Social Pr= actice.=E2=80=9D=20 Again, many of the =E2=80=98claims=E2=80=99 I frame in that piece are not ex= aggerations but=20 condensations of ideological statements that I think are bullshit. You quote= =20 two sequences from PSP that you see as mischaracterizations of (bastardized)= =20 critical theory/discourse: =E2=80=9CIndividualism is anti-social. To look wi= thin=20 oneself is apolitical" =E2=80=93 which I hear timeand time again (individual= ism is=20 incompatible with collective action and vice versa, and spirituality is/must= =20 be a form of narcissism/idealism) =E2=80=93 and "We can only be sure of one=20= thing:=20 The truth is not attainable. All meaningis commodified except the meaning of= =20 this statement" =E2=80=93 which are mocking Foucault and his vulgar Nietzsch= eanism=20 (since we can=E2=80=99t know for sure anything is true or not, nothing is) a= nd a kind=20 of fake marxifying of that linguistic totalizer Derrida (well illustrated by= =20 Bill Austin=E2=80=99s recent post in which he reminds us that all language/w= riting is=20 indeterminate, which, if it were true, would make the statement meaningless=20= =E2=80=93=20 the old =E2=80=9CCretans are liars=E2=80=9D trick again). Actually, most of=20= the statements=20 in PSP aren=E2=80=99t mocking =E2=80=9Ccritical theory=E2=80=9D so much as w= hat I'll call =E2=80=98poetry=20 world cliches=E2=80=99 or received literary ideas.=20 You are very right to see =E2=80=9CPoetry as Social Practice= =E2=80=9D as a=20 species of manifesto, a form of discourse that you term =E2=80=9Cmonstrous= =E2=80=9D (would=20 you say the same for =E2=80=9CThe Communist Manifesto=E2=80=9D?), and whose=20= =E2=80=9Cslogans remind=20 [you] of (not so much aesthetic, but ideological) grotesques -- monstrous,=20 distorted representations of the discourse [I] wish to oppose.=E2=80=9D You=20= add that=20 =E2=80=9Cby enacting [my] critique through a series of ironic slogans instea= d of a=20 rigorous, well-reasoned argument, [my] post doubles back on itself,=20 performing and becoming that which it attacks. [I] present us with a=20 manifesto that seeks to topple one regime of discourse in order to replace i= t=20 with another.=E2=80=9D Isn=E2=80=99t this like accusing someone of not playi= ng fair or not=20 coloring inside the lines? Why do I have to play by your rules and standards= =20 of discourse? I am very willing to construct well-reasoned arguments but to=20 have to do this all the time is oppressive. Poetry shouldn=E2=80=99t be subj= ect to=20 such rules and I see =E2=80=9CPoetry as Social Practice=E2=80=9D more in the= line of=20 monstrous =E2=80=9Cpoetic production=E2=80=9D than patient, =E2=80=9Csincere= =E2=80=9D (yet unemotional)=20 argumentation. More Dada than Debord. Am I wrong to assume that you are not=20= a=20 poet? I have no problem if you aren=E2=80=99t, it=E2=80=99s just so apparent= that you don=E2=80=99t=20 believe in Artists' Rights. Do you like the blues at all? It might not=20 contribute to a progressive critique of capitalist modes of production (it=20 was created by slaves for cryingout loud), but it=E2=80=99s really powerful=20= art.=20 Check out these lyrics: =20 I=E2=80=99m gonna lay my head on some lonesome railroad line and let the 2:19 train satisfy my mind ---from =E2=80=9CTrouble in Mind=E2=80=9D (I don=E2=80=99t know who w= rote it) =20 Now I don=E2=80=99t think you can reduce these four lines to=20= any=20 particular emotion =E2=80=93 anger, depression, self-pity =E2=80=93 they=E2= =80=99re all there. The=20 whole person is there =E2=80=93 not just an ideological critique of society=20= staged by=20 someone pushing an analysis they learned in a classroom. Not just language o= r=20 discourse. What is killing us now is that a lot of poets and intellectuals=20 think they=E2=80=99re ROYALTY =E2=80=93 above something like the bare or=20= =E2=80=9Craw=E2=80=9D (though not=20 melodramatic) sentiments conveyed in the above lyric. A poet gives voice to=20 many states of mind and forms of experience, not just ideology =E2=80=93 as=20= if=20 becoming a poet were strictly a political choice (anyway, it would be the=20 wrong one if it were). A poet thus gives voice to the experience of being=20 alone, a solitary being in a destructive, atomizing society that has no use=20 for poets or poetry except as pedagogical or moral-training devices. I think= =20 this rejection of the role of the solitary poet is a sublimation of our=20 desire for collective participation. No one wants to be lonely, but some of=20 us want to be alone, or unknown, to do our work as the now dead =E2=80=9Cwit= ness of=20 thedispossessed,=E2=80=9D John Wieners, once said. Right now =E2=80=9Csolita= ry=E2=80=9D means=20 =E2=80=9Civory tower.=E2=80=9D We need to stop equating the two. Your invitation to theorize =E2=80=9Cfeeling=E2=80=9D and=20= =E2=80=9Cemotion=E2=80=9D is too=20 tall a task for me to take on right now. I do not see them as untainted or=20 uncoopted by capitalist ideologies or modes of production. I don=E2=80=99t t= hink=20 there is any pure space from which to speak or think or feel. I will say tha= t=20 the divide between =E2=80=9Cthinking=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cfeeling=E2=80=9D=20= seems to be a particularly=20 American problem =E2=80=93 perhaps given our (occasionally healthy) suspicio= n of=20 intellectuality and the lack of visible participation by poets in=20 institutions other than the university (I=E2=80=99m thinking of politics and= =20 government), unlike in other countries. One place to start theorizing about=20 these questions is Marcuse=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CEros and Civilization=E2=80= =9D -- an excellent=20 introduction to this historical conflict between intellect and emotion,=20 reason and sensuality, morality and freedom (or the =E2=80=9Cperformance pri= nciple=E2=80=9D=20 and the =E2=80=9Cpleasure principle=E2=80=9D) =E2=80=93 and its Freudian int= erpretation. As Marcuse=20 indicates, the goal of Eros is the overcoming of these divisions/separations= =20 in the eradication of surplus-repression, domination, alienation, etc. That= =E2=80=99s=20 about as much as I can say about it on this dreary Saturday night.=20 =20 My little conclusion: =20 Any emotions are valid. Any tools are valid. It=E2=80=99s what you do with them that matters. =20 good night, dave =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:28:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Event - New Films - Saturday, April 27 - Millennium Film Workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New Films - Saturday, April 27 - Millennium Film Workshop Joel Schlemowitz New Films 8:00 PM Saturday April 27, 2002 Millennium Film Workshop 66 East 4th Street (between 2nd Ave and Bowery) New York City (212) 673-0090 ========================= Reverie (2001), a film in the Symbolist manner, with music by Rebecca Moore. morning poem #40 (2001), Typoclavecin Film - Variations on the Blues for JoJo #10 (2001), with poems by Wanda Phipps Bagatelle in Neon (1997), handpainted footage of neon signs, with live piano by Marisol Martinez Moving Images - the Film-Makers' Cooperative relocates (2001), shot when the Coop moved to the Clocktower Gallery, with interviews with Jonas Mekas and MM Serra All Saints Day (2001), shot simultaneously in New York and Seattle, co-maker Jon Behrens Fogg (2002) - PREMIERE . . . and more ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:59:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 13 lines of refuge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 13 lines of refuge. white lichen. refuge in resurrection fern. refuge in everglades crayfish. refuge in limestone solution hole. refuge in mosquito-fish. refuge in leopard frog. refuge in apple-snail. refuge in spatterdock blossom. refuge in spatterdock fruit.:refuge in bay-head. cocoplum thicket. nighttime great blue heron. solitary killdeer. refuge in coot. cattail marsh. mussel. refuge in horn snail. refuge in mud-wasp. hardwood hammock. refuge in boattail grackle. refuge in common grackle. crow.:refuge in spatterdock. pondapple night-blooming blossoms. spatterdock fruit. african tilapia. florida gar. desiccated periphyton. deer spoor. alligator spoor. sawgrass. refuge in webbing. butterfly weed. halloween pennant dragonfly. green water snake. diamondback rattler young. ::red-winged-blackbird is olympus camedia 2040 sq2 high. on wet flesh it's red-winged-blackbird -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:52:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: WHAt IS LAMGuagE POETRy? Comments: To: flarfy@hotmail.com, mitch.highfill@db.com, jdavis@panix.com, nada@jps.net, damon001@tc.umn.edu, drewgard@erols.com, toomuchflarf@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed WHAt IS LAMGuagE POETRy? Language poetry is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary poetics. Language poetry is held out to be one of the poetic modes of the present moment. Language poetry is the biggest trend I see, experimental writing. Language poetry is about memory and shared experiences. Language poetry is a technology for memory and speed. Language poetry is the cutting edge of a sphere. Language poetry is here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture injection of speed. Language poetry is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been the regularly scheduled poetry. Language poetry is one of the most ancient and widespread of the arts. Language poetry is older than prose, and abstract speech more difficult. Language poetry is twenty years old. Language poetry is neither genre nor movement. Language poetry is there as a backdrop. Language poetry is seen as political act in the deepest sense. This poetry is accessible to an American audience. Language poetry is a particularly American phenomenon that borrows from European traditions and theories. Language poetry is an American phenomenon, not an Australian one. Explore its possibilities. Language poetry is being explored and we are looking at the many techniques. Language poetry is about going beyond the boundaries of traditional / conventional language usage. Language poetry is the refusal to take for granted the tyranny of meaning. Language poetry is not designed basically to communicate information. Language poetry is artistic noise: it resists the dreams of pure communication. Language poetry is the highest form of language. Language poetry is one in which there is a number of established poets operating in diverse ways. Language poetry is diverse, including a selection of poems by women. Language poetry is constructed as a niche market. Language poetry is academy-ready. The founders of the Language movement were interested in ideas. Language poetry is a special type of language that attempts to express the inexpressible. It is not the pragmatic. Language poetry is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical. Language poetry is influenced by theory. Language poetry is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately with issues. Language poetry is concerned, then, with what it is to be radical in theory. Language poetry is a way to make sense of the world. I never really know what I think. Language poetry is first of all speaking with listening? a peculiar state that is somehow self. Language poetry is more than this. Language poetry also takes the form of statement and declaration. Language poetry is no harder to "get" than Cubism. Language poetry is blessed by Rosmarie Waldrop. Language poetry is impressive. Language poetry is vibrant. Language poetry is a way of expression open to anyone who chooses to use it. Language poetry is central to existence, to the real lives of real people. Language poetry is the passion of language and children enjoy that as well. Language poetry is the language for expressing emotions, as we know. Language poetry is about making language happen. Language poetry is redemptive. Language poetry is what gets lost in translation. Language poetry is not an attempt to obscure meaning through ambiguity. Language poetry is, as Stevens put it, the difference between the and an. Language poetry is Jacob's ladder for me: a place where earth and spirit connect. Language poetry is our basic connection between our sense of self and the cosmos. Language poetry is in for one helluva ride, I would think! Language poetry is by no means a toy in the hands of foreign rulers. Language poetry is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is oral. Language poetry is available in English, for example, but it doesn't have the same value. Language poetry is often intended to be read on the page, but there are many poems. Language poetry is undoubtedly the most self-critical--in the sense of self promotion. Language poetry is both concise and precise, two of the most important elements. Language poetry is also better than prose at shaping small subjects to create intimate feeling. Language poetry is much more philosophically-based, and I think my poems are still strongly rooted. Language poetry is best served when it attacks not language itself (give me a good clause). Language poetry is wordplay, without the play. Language poetry is built of nothing but words, and must use what it finds to hand. Language poetry is normally recited. Language poetry is a perfect way to describe the blurred understanding of dreams. Language poetry is how we word ourselves across rivers we never crossed before. Language poetry is an echo asking a shadow dancer to be a partner. Language poetry is in 839.8137 and a Norwegian-language novel is in 839.82. Language poetry is shit or that it is the shit--and no doubt that will be educational. Language poetry is tae hae its first owersettin intae Chinese. Language poetry is uniquely accessible to the speakers of that language. Language poetry is what survives translation, not what's lost in it. Language poetry is especially powerful. I think the best way to understand Language poetry is to meet some actual examples of it. Language poetry, as you probably know, is.... Language poetry is, what would you say? W: I don't think I would be able to explain it. Language poetry is a recuperation by "literature" of something that was questioning the poetic. Language poetry is ordered by production rather than reproduction. The reader no longer reflects. Language poetry is a certain kind or quality of intellectuality, or seeming intellectuality. Language poetry is an experience of referral in the place of transparent signification. Language poetry is also fundamental because it speaks to the right content through language. What.... Language poetry is really thinking about a lot of the poetry that one has probably read. Language poetry is a performance art form involving signing rhythm and movement. Language poetry is about moving an audience with sound and image. Language poetry is the painting of the blind, while painting is the poetry of the deaf. Language poetry is a form of expression that allows our deepest soul to be portrayed to others. Language poetry is a way to say something in a way that shows love and elevates that. Language poetry is always the one you can feel more intensively. Language poetry is a very high form of linguistic intelligence. Language poetry is considered centripetal because the author tries to infuse every word. Language poetry is a type of speech. Second, song lyrics are poetry stolen back from the dull. Language poetry is a message ... a language of the old and the young. The language of the weak and the strong. The language of patriots. Language poetry is written in verse; that is, the lamguage which makes up the poem. Language poetry is an art form that places a very high value on rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. Language poetry is language. A sharp distinction in theory between rhyme and meter. Language poetry is usually presented in lines. Often poets express a great deal. Language poetry is structured in short lines and verses. Most appealing types of poetry are. Language poetry is essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is frequently structured in stanzas. Language poetry is written mostly in iambic meters. Language poetry is written in iambic pentameters. Language poetry is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented syllables alternate in lines. Language poetry is the syllable. Most poetry in the English language is based on accentual-syllabic meter. Language poetry is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties of the ambiguous and confrontational. Language poetry is an art, and it is common for artists to disagree. Language poetry is a particularly regular and effective tool for learning. Topics are rich. Language poetry is one way in which our pupils see words coming to life. Language poetry is quoted from other sources, the Writer gives new contexts to material. Language poetry is special language. Language poetry is not just a catch phrase to describe the words used in making poems. Language poetry is more like a group. Language poetry is understood to be an art of imitation: imitation with new inflections. Language poetry is poetry. Actually, poets can't do it, either. Unless you believe Language poetry is poetry. Language poetry is correlative to no object, including its own notion. Language poetry is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language clear and honest. Language poetry is a term I prefer not to use. Language poetry is not "literature" and is not worth wasting parchment and ink on. Language poetry is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the word language, which belongs to all. Language poetry is misleading. Language poetry is a self-defeating fiction. Language poetry is autobiographical at its fundament, even if an attempt to purge self. Language poetry is also provided. Language poetry is also included. According to Dr Puru Sharma, it is difficult to write poems. Language poetry is waka. Language poetry is a transcendence of logical confinement. A wonderful wine poured into a bottle. Language poetry is at once deep and humorous--deeply, often darkly, humorous. Language poetry is not for everyone. They place Language poetry as a gender and class. Language poetry is not as explicitly multi-authored as web networks are, the expressive power of multiple context remains one of its main concerns. Language poetry is here understood as simply one of the functions that can be. Language poetry is not a secondary phenomenon: it has a special relation to being and truth. Language poetry is release (Gelassenheit). Language poetry is good for you--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap points to consider.... Language poetry is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets and divers of sea fathoms.... Language poetry is flowing. A philosopher is talking to you and yet you just can not.... Language poetry is filled with this type language, but so is regular language. The dog loved.... Language poetry is lost, but meaning may become more accessible. Her luminous watercolors, as ever.... Language poetry is above all a concentration of the power of language. Language poetry is the only poetry that is language, but the term has long been used. Language poetry is the essence and the power of language. I think all of us are poets. Language poetry is the best I've found anywhere on the web. Know it, use it, love it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:02:50 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: WHAt IS LAMGuagE POETRy? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit K. Interesting rhetoric, if the whole thing is not satirical,but else and even, much to think of, and some good things which I liked (but overall not very energising even as rhetoric which makes me suspicioned of your title to this piece)..... but "language poetry": - is there such a very differentiated thing - there are poets who are much influenced by the poetics of the language movement, and a lot of fascinating stuff has come from them: but are they fundamentally in any sense at this stage at the cutting edge so to speak: or greatly more illuminated illumined or illuminating than any other groups or singles of poets?: they are of no interest if they are not, or "language poetry is" (becomes "Language Poetry Is"), or if there is the fond illusion that anything more extraordinary is being done by them than a good poem by Robert Frost (someone mentioned his "Design") I think for this type of poetry to move places or move me, other people, it has to be energised by some emotional and hence intellectual or conscious force. Or force of consiousness - I'm not urging a return to Frostian or (say) Keatsian poetry though...When I was first introduced to language poetry (or the language poetic movement) in 1992 Iwas fascinated by the possiblities, still am, and I remember one student did a kind of thesis that Robert Creeley is a language poet: I was a bit skeptical of this at the time, but I'm not so now: at his best Creeley is a poet and a language poet (but maybe he does write "Language Poetry" ( you are by implication capitalising the form)) ... and I think a great poet who in some respects has been "overlooked" (I mean that because of his very (generally) strict short lines and his working with intense attentivenes to his craft he is not put in with the "Language Poets") but he's, well in a sense arent all poets langauge poets: its a questionof the degree of focus on language (or self-reflexivness etc) ... your dicta could include many Modernist and pre Modernist poets and poetics...but ok its strong (or is it?), and presumably in earnest: and as a kind of poem about poetics it is of course "allowed" to be rhetorical even dicta tatorial...but some things start to niggle - not an Australian phenomenom? American only?, maybe: not "invented there perhaps, but if a "movement is of any value it spreads: ideas go out and are re-used by others.. built into new ideas, just as the English language has built (and probably many other languages)...however Languge Poetry as you have presented it starts to sound like its a Closed Club - shut inside the US - the country that seems at times to be going insane in its own self-engrossement. A Club self-enclosed in a Closed Club: some of whose tenets are openness? Suitable to the United States of Paranoia: Him Big Strong Nukem Beside Himself With Black Laughter? Questions arise: what, in truth, has it contributed? Where is it all headed? Is it all-headed? Is it a movement? The be all and end all? Passe or just what the Poetical Doctor ordered? The future or the past? So what it is "held to be one of the poetic modes" ..? OK I know what you're saying. These however are some questions that are irking at me: however I shall bow out now and see what others say....but just prior: What exactly is the "tyranny of meaning"? I presume thus a reference to those who always want "transparancy" (granted that can be a worry) and also to essential epistemelogical questions, but Dave Hess has already commented (in a slightly different "take") on the "all Cretans are liars" problems arising etc......but others have the floor now. Regards, Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K.Silem Mohammad" To: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 6:52 PM Subject: WHAt IS LAMGuagE POETRy? > WHAt IS LAMGuagE POETRy? > > > > > > > Language poetry is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary > poetics. > > Language poetry is held out to be one of the poetic modes of the present > moment. > > Language poetry is the biggest trend I see, experimental writing. > > Language poetry is about memory and shared experiences. > > Language poetry is a technology for memory and speed. > > Language poetry is the cutting edge of a sphere. > > Language poetry is here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture > injection of speed. > > Language poetry is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been the > regularly scheduled poetry. > > Language poetry is one of the most ancient and widespread of the arts. > > Language poetry is older than prose, and abstract speech more difficult. > > Language poetry is twenty years old. > > Language poetry is neither genre nor movement. > > Language poetry is there as a backdrop. > > Language poetry is seen as political act in the deepest sense. This poetry > is accessible to an American audience. > > Language poetry is a particularly American phenomenon that borrows from > European traditions and theories. > > Language poetry is an American phenomenon, not an Australian one. Explore > its possibilities. > > Language poetry is being explored and we are looking at the many techniques. > > Language poetry is about going beyond the boundaries of traditional / > conventional language usage. > > Language poetry is the refusal to take for granted the tyranny of meaning. > > Language poetry is not designed basically to communicate information. > > Language poetry is artistic noise: it resists the dreams of pure > communication. > > Language poetry is the highest form of language. > > Language poetry is one in which there is a number of established poets > operating in diverse ways. > > Language poetry is diverse, including a selection of poems by women. > > Language poetry is constructed as a niche market. > > Language poetry is academy-ready. The founders of the Language movement > were interested in ideas. > > Language poetry is a special type of language that attempts to express the > inexpressible. It is not the pragmatic. > > Language poetry is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical. > > Language poetry is influenced by theory. > > Language poetry is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt > adequately with issues. > > Language poetry is concerned, then, with what it is to be radical in theory. > > Language poetry is a way to make sense of the world. I never really know > what I think. > > Language poetry is first of all speaking with listening? a peculiar state > that is somehow self. > > Language poetry is more than this. Language poetry also takes the form of > statement and declaration. > > Language poetry is no harder to "get" than Cubism. > > Language poetry is blessed by Rosmarie Waldrop. > > Language poetry is impressive. > > Language poetry is vibrant. > > Language poetry is a way of expression open to anyone who chooses to use it. > > Language poetry is central to existence, to the real lives of real people. > > Language poetry is the passion of language and children enjoy that as well. > > Language poetry is the language for expressing emotions, as we know. > > Language poetry is about making language happen. > > Language poetry is redemptive. > > Language poetry is what gets lost in translation. > > Language poetry is not an attempt to obscure meaning through ambiguity. > > Language poetry is, as Stevens put it, the difference between the and an. > > Language poetry is Jacob's ladder for me: a place where earth and spirit > connect. > > Language poetry is our basic connection between our sense of self and the > cosmos. > > Language poetry is in for one helluva ride, I would think! > > Language poetry is by no means a toy in the hands of foreign rulers. > > Language poetry is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is oral. > > Language poetry is available in English, for example, but it doesn't have > the same value. > > Language poetry is often intended to be read on the page, but there are many > poems. > > Language poetry is undoubtedly the most self-critical--in the sense of self > promotion. > > Language poetry is both concise and precise, two of the most important > elements. > > Language poetry is also better than prose at shaping small subjects to > create intimate feeling. > > Language poetry is much more philosophically-based, and I think my poems are > still strongly rooted. > > Language poetry is best served when it attacks not language itself (give me > a good clause). > > Language poetry is wordplay, without the play. > > Language poetry is built of nothing but words, and must use what it finds to > hand. > > Language poetry is normally recited. > > Language poetry is a perfect way to describe the blurred understanding of > dreams. > > Language poetry is how we word ourselves across rivers we never crossed > before. > > Language poetry is an echo asking a shadow dancer to be a partner. > > Language poetry is in 839.8137 and a Norwegian-language novel is in 839.82. > > Language poetry is shit or that it is the shit--and no doubt that will be > educational. > > Language poetry is tae hae its first owersettin intae Chinese. > > Language poetry is uniquely accessible to the speakers of that language. > > Language poetry is what survives translation, not what's lost in it. > > Language poetry is especially powerful. I think the best way to understand > Language poetry is to meet some actual examples of it. > > Language poetry, as you probably know, is.... > > Language poetry is, what would you say? W: I don't think I would be able to > explain it. > > Language poetry is a recuperation by "literature" of something that was > questioning the poetic. > > Language poetry is ordered by production rather than reproduction. The > reader no longer reflects. > > Language poetry is a certain kind or quality of intellectuality, or seeming > intellectuality. > > Language poetry is an experience of referral in the place of transparent > signification. > > Language poetry is also fundamental because it speaks to the right content > through language. What.... > > Language poetry is really thinking about a lot of the poetry that one has > probably read. > > Language poetry is a performance art form involving signing rhythm and > movement. > > Language poetry is about moving an audience with sound and image. > > Language poetry is the painting of the blind, while painting is the poetry > of the deaf. > > Language poetry is a form of expression that allows our deepest soul to be > portrayed to others. > > Language poetry is a way to say something in a way that shows love and > elevates that. > > Language poetry is always the one you can feel more intensively. > > Language poetry is a very high form of linguistic intelligence. > > Language poetry is considered centripetal because the author tries to infuse > every word. > > Language poetry is a type of speech. Second, song lyrics are poetry stolen > back from the dull. > > Language poetry is a message ... a language of the old and the young. The > language of the weak and the strong. The language of patriots. > > Language poetry is written in verse; that is, the lamguage which makes up > the poem. > > Language poetry is an art form that places a very high value on rhythm, > rhyme, alliteration. > > Language poetry is language. A sharp distinction in theory between rhyme > and meter. > > Language poetry is usually presented in lines. Often poets express a great > deal. > > Language poetry is structured in short lines and verses. Most appealing > types of poetry are. > > Language poetry is essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is > frequently structured in stanzas. > > Language poetry is written mostly in iambic meters. > > Language poetry is written in iambic pentameters. > > Language poetry is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented > syllables alternate in lines. > > Language poetry is the syllable. Most poetry in the English language is > based on accentual-syllabic meter. > > Language poetry is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties of > the ambiguous and confrontational. > > Language poetry is an art, and it is common for artists to disagree. > > Language poetry is a particularly regular and effective tool for learning. > Topics are rich. > > Language poetry is one way in which our pupils see words coming to life. > > Language poetry is quoted from other sources, the Writer gives new contexts > to material. > > Language poetry is special language. > > Language poetry is not just a catch phrase to describe the words used in > making poems. > > Language poetry is more like a group. > > Language poetry is understood to be an art of imitation: imitation with new > inflections. > > Language poetry is poetry. Actually, poets can't do it, either. Unless you > believe Language poetry is poetry. > > Language poetry is correlative to no object, including its own notion. > > Language poetry is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language > clear and honest. > > Language poetry is a term I prefer not to use. > > Language poetry is not "literature" and is not worth wasting parchment and > ink on. > > Language poetry is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the word language, which > belongs to all. > > Language poetry is misleading. > > Language poetry is a self-defeating fiction. > > Language poetry is autobiographical at its fundament, even if an attempt to > purge self. > > Language poetry is also provided. > > Language poetry is also included. According to Dr Puru Sharma, it is > difficult to write poems. > > Language poetry is waka. > > Language poetry is a transcendence of logical confinement. A wonderful wine > poured into a bottle. > > Language poetry is at once deep and humorous--deeply, often darkly, > humorous. > > Language poetry is not for everyone. They place Language poetry as a gender > and class. > > Language poetry is not as explicitly multi-authored as web networks are, the > expressive power of multiple context remains one of its main concerns. > > Language poetry is here understood as simply one of the functions that can > be. > > Language poetry is not a secondary phenomenon: it has a special relation to > being and truth. > > Language poetry is release (Gelassenheit). > > Language poetry is good for you--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap > points to consider.... > > Language poetry is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets and divers of > sea fathoms.... > > Language poetry is flowing. A philosopher is talking to you and yet you just > can not.... > > Language poetry is filled with this type language, but so is regular > language. The dog loved.... > > Language poetry is lost, but meaning may become more accessible. Her > luminous watercolors, as ever.... > > Language poetry is above all a concentration of the power of language. > > Language poetry is the only poetry that is language, but the term has long > been used. > > Language poetry is the essence and the power of language. I think all of us > are poets. > > Language poetry is the best I've found anywhere on the web. Know it, use > it, love it. > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > K. Silem Mohammad > Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit > University of California Santa Cruz > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:34:38 -0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Re. the Oppen discussions. A limited number of copies of Conviction's Net of Branches: Essays on the Objectivist Poets and Poetry (Southern Illinois U P 1985) have turned up and are now available through Spuyten Dyvil (or online via Amazon and B&N). MH ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:06:55 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Karen Kelley ("query") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello--- Does anybody have contact info for the poet Karen Kelley? And, if so, could you backchannel me? thanks, Chris > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:17:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: call for help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear membership, I am looking for a few snazzy quotations from the famous on what makes a good teacher (or good teaching) -- anyone from Plato's/Aristotle's end of the timeline to the present. Whatever help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:19:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Oppen influence (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit May/might one substitute "bushees" for Campbell's and continue the singing? Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:25:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: intent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. bell any relation to Alexander who provides my benefits and do you accept verizon health plan? want to make an appointment thanx Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:38:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: intent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think everyone makes overstatements or slips of the tongue from time to time. My personal definition of violence involves intense physical contact, but violation (my own definition) can be more destructive than violence. My personal notion of nature includes human being as part of it, not separate from or superior to it. It seems the statement led to discussions with a wider range of implications than intended---displays of philosophical muscle, so to speak. ----- Original Message ----- From: "juliana spahr" To: Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 12:40 PM Subject: intent > i notice the conversation has moved on to eros, but just to meekly beg > apologies... > > i think the problem here is just that my language was sloppy. somedays i > just need to beg for one's assumptions that i'm not really trying to be > reductive and hope you'll accept my get out of jail free card from the > close readings. although i guess it is good for me to learn how to say > things more clearly and part of writing is learning that. i did a > rewrite of this essay when i gave the talk again last month and i went > back and looked at the rewrite and noticed i had changed that sentence > to this: "Davies's language invites compassion as it calls attention to > selfishness: the selfishness of terrorism and the selfishness of bloody > retaliation." (i think gary sullivan is going to publish the rewrite at > readme at http://home.jps.net/~nada/ sometime soon.) anyway, i hope this > makes it clear, although i thought the essay as a whole did this, that i > am well aware that the u.s. is not at all innocent in any of this and do > not support most of the u.s. government's foreign policy. > > re: Elizabeth T. Jackson > > > group. Well I could say more, this isn't meant to close off other meanings > > > of those two multisyllabics. I think that when Spahr wrote that phrase > > > "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and > > > the selfish violence of terrorism" she fell into a bit of the privelige and > > > imperialism she is indicting. I am not indicting her for that, I am quite > > > sure I fall into it as well; Spahr and I are both Americans. Bluntly my > > > sense of that phrase was like "well you are the gang and we are the police"; > > > we might be just as bad as you but we have some sort of reason/sanction > > > behind us. Again, I do not mean to insult Ms. Spahr at all by writing this, > > > just to add in to the conversation. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:51:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: A Temptation For Miss Juliana MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A TEMPTATION FOR MISS JULIANA Growing green spindrift down in the basement again, all the cellar's floribund mould spores and Milady's mildew, while simultaneously circumambulating the ricketty widow's walk on Flora's feastday on a house with no walls to hide unrepentent scoundrels at their foul "-ower"-rhyme delectations of hell-bound corruption (daisies), to be far from the unnatural badnesses of a deceptive posey, for a coy smile's bounty hunt to please the one immaculate spikey macho plant that flourishes without a ripened plant ovule to recite into the southerly wind of perfumes a small Hellenist's anthology but hygienic antiseptic palate as spontaneous pollination from Maiden Earth revealing the indecent harm a heartless germination did unto the chessboards of black and red ant-hills --- ah! my insect familiars on their Faustian backs, smothered by a wanton bouquet! done in cartoon colors and debauched in their page-turning to be saturated hair all mussed in DEPRAVED literatures of an outer envelope of petals and sepals, those orgiasts' naughty forget-me-nots. Ah! then a degenerate readership who stain the clean, lily-clean frontispiece, a stem and leaves to be dourly imprisoned rightfully in the stench of greenhouse chained! by copying out a commonplace book of horrific bloom which blinders itself as an old mottled pack-mule in rotten feed sack to the crime a floral pattern in wall-paper all leafy so shamelessly rolls in a fenced mud sty oinking all for rosey springtime that rogues' Lent abstaining from bracing vinaigrette tonics for their Pontius Pilate petals nailed to their corolla and SHOWY without blushing Modestie nor a covering as penitence for the downy pelt of up-in-your-face fl-ers their gardens __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:58:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: "Language Poets" - equal that is to the punctuation itself Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 My favorite defintition of a "Language Poet" comes from Ron Silliman: "Anyone who has ever been accused of being one." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tell Her -- the page I never wrote! Tell Her, I only said -- the Syntax -- And left the Verb and the Pronoun -- out! --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:05:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Karen Kelley ("query") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cstroffo@earthlink.net wrote: > Hello--- Does anybody have contact info for the poet Karen Kelley? And, if so, could you > backchannel me? thanks, Chris Dear Chris, Here I am, Chris: Karen Kelley, the one after whom you queried so desirously. I am but making employment of this anonymous jeffreyjullich@yahoo.com account, as sometimes a lady may have recourse to britches. What wish of yours may I fulfill, Chris? Is it **O poems** of mine you would like to PUBLISH in a saddle-stapled print journal!!!? Or a literary criticism you might like to make of my enjoyable versification? No need for the "Back-Channel," Chris, as you so euphemistically call it (cha.no.yu [chah'no-yoo] : An ancient Japanese ritual for the preparation, serving, and drinking of tea < J. "hot water"). You may speak your heart's whims here in the open forum amongst our peers (You have no scurrilous intent to your query, then) as on a gingham picnic blanket in the open air. Karen Kelley __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:35:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG event: Heather Nagami & Tim Peterson, April 27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit POG presents poets Heather Nagami & Tim Peterson Saturday, April 27, 7 pm Antigone Books 411 N 4th Ave, 792-3715 Admission: $5; Students $3 Tim Peterson is an MFA student in poetry at the University of Arizona. His poetry has appeared in Colorado Review, and his art criticism has appeared in Rain Taxi. He recently won honorable mention in the Robert Penn Warren Awards--a poetry contest judged this year by John Ashbery. Heather Nagami is an M.F.A. student at the University of Arizona. Her criticism has appeared in Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics and her poetry is forthcoming in Rattle. She is Editor-in-Chief of Sonora Review. POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following POG donors: Patrons Austin Publicover and Mark & Gail Seldess; Sponsors Sam Ace, Charles Alexander, Alison Deming, Maggie Golston, Mary Rising Higgins, Elizabeth Landry, Allison Moore, Sheila Murphy, Heather Nagami & Tim Peterson, Tenney Nathanson, Stacey Richter, Jesse Seldess, and Frances Sjoberg. for further information contact POG: 296-6416 pog@gopog.org or visit us on the web at www.gopog.org mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:00:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: -- 3 new poetry CDs coming in May from Faux Press -- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought you might like to know about this: -- 3 new poetry CDs coming in May from Faux Press -- Wanda Phipps ZITHER MOOD Texts, audio poems, blues songs & film from Wanda Phipps. Poetry and music in ZITHER MOOD are supplemented by skillful collaborations between Phipps and filmmaker Joel Schlemowitz. Phipps layers her lyrics with imagery from live description, memory and dreams, a "poetry you can dance to," according to Michael Rothenberg. Urbane and often sexy, ZITHER MOOD cuts sly and playful deals between love and a hard place, textured with honest miscommunications and deliberate mishearings. "Powerful works!" --Andrei Codrescu Edwin Torres PLEASE Text, audio poems, soundscapes, & video from Edwin Torres. "I was in a room./The left wall was my friend./I turned." With these lines, we enter PLEASE -- a CD that uses the screen to navigate sublime stagecraft and lyrical realization. Bob Holman extols Torres' "text, graphics and poesie concrete... the equivalent of Torres' fully-orchestrated live performances." Torres' design background informs a minimal visual architecture, combining paranoia with nomadic wonder. "Torres is the inventor... the most optimistic, agile poet around." --Brenda Coultas Peter Ganick tend. field Self-scrolling text & drawings by Peter Ganick. "Never gratuitous," Johanna Drucker points to Ganick's "scrupulous poetic practice...to build the world out of essential words." In tend. field Ganick follows Phillipe Sollers' achievement composing a single paragraph that lasts the length of a novel, resulting in Ganick's wildest thought experiment in over three decades of writing, lushly illustrated by the author-turned-painter, illuminating what Ganick calls an "infinity in a projection...a crowd in a process becoming its own projection." "Full of provocative thought." --Jackson Mac Low Each CD plays on a Mac or PC, and sells for 19.95. If you subscribe now, you get all 3 CDs at a special pre-release discount, just 35.00. (This offer is extended to Faux Press list members for a limited time; the subscription price will increase once the CDs are released.) For more information about these CDs and details on how to subscribe online or by mail, try http://www.fauxpress.com Thanks. -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:39:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: intent MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT in my mind 'philosopical muscle' is how we got into today's muddle. when you talk of violence you also need to be aware of the power of the threat of violence. women who have been abused often live the rest of their lives in fear of it's recurrence and in America today we live conscously or unconsciously in fear of terrorism even if we have cubscout Bush behind us. tom spouting today i guess. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:47:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII make money fast the narrow-gauge rails circled the entire asteroid. without beginning or end, an equator was inscribed on the ragged surface. ties were reinforced with titanium studs driven deep into the ground. the circulation engine was constructed on site. enormous rockets would push the engine fast in one direction. heavy gears engaged the titanium studs and ties. driven by heat, the gears pushed hard in the opposite direction. the circulation engine resisted tremendous compression. slowly the asteroid began to rotate against the force of the rockets. sondheim noticed the gears beginning to saw away at the studs and ties. the gears cracked and collapsed, welding the engine to the rails. the rotation of the asteroid slowed to a halt. the firing of the rockets now welded to the rails had the desired effect. almost imperceptibly, the asteroid began to rotate in the opposite direction. visibly, it began to pick up speed. soon a day emerged, an earth-year at a time. the rockets kept up their furious pace as the day reached an earth-month in length. at the twenty-five hour mark, the rockets spent their last. the asteroid greeted its new dusks and dawns as the track was dismantled. _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:50:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: the teacher/teaching quote thread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a little slant yet relevant: "...good society and brilliant discourse are perpetual allegories." --Ralph Waldo Emerson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:42:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: Armantrout in Boston Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The current issue of Boston Review is worth a look, not so much for Burt's directionless essay on Armantrout, but for Calvin Bedient's review of seven first books by, so it appears, Language-writing-influenced younger poets. Burt's essay remains timorously on the level of poetics, explaining RA's poems in terms of the cliches of academic discourse, a.k.a. Language writing. He does, in passing, make the apt and damaging connection between RA and such writers as Rich and Glück. But he does not exert much effort in tackling the question of RA's artistry. What is her special claim to distinction? Burt does not clearly tell us, nor does he even point to a quotation and say, "See how good that is?" The two RA poems in the issue are weakened by bathos, humorlessness, and indifference to sound. We read them and think, "What's all the fuss about?" Bedient, though, makes lively assertions about "soft" versus "hard" experimentalism, the mannerisms and poses of contemporary disenchantment, and the herd instinct among poets to "dutifully raise Language writing's 'I have too much integrity to give way to lyricism' banner." He is especially sensitive to the opportunities and dilemmas faced today by younger writers, including (in one instance) writers whose parents' speak a different language. Bedient's reviewing style is, as always, cloyingly clever, but at least he quotes the passages he thinks are important. And he is unafraid to make generalizations about what is good and bad in the current scene. http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR27.2/bedient.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:50:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: call for help In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. William Arthur Ward The best teacher is the one who suggests rather than dogmatizes, and inspires his listener with the wish to teach himself. Edward Bulwer-Lytton Experience is the worst teacher; it gives the test before presenting the lesson. Vernon Law Experience is a hard teacher. She gives the test first and the lessons afterwards. Anonymous Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn at no other. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) A teacher is one who makes himself progressively unnecessary. Thomas Carruthers A teacher affects eternity; he can never tell, where his influence stops. Henry Brooks Adams Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parent, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers. Socrates (470-399 B.C.) Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils. Hector Louis Berlioz The whole art of teaching is only the art of awakening the natural curiosity of young minds for the purpose of satisfying it afterwards. Anatole France Teaching is not a lost art, but the regard for it is a lost tradition. Jacques Barzun It is because modern education is so seldom inspired by a great hope that it so seldom achieves great results. The wish to preserve the past rather that the hope of creating the future dominates the minds of those who control the teaching of the young. Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) Good teaching is one-fourth preparation and three-fourths theater. Gail Godwin We spend the first twelve months of our children's lives teaching them to walk and talk and the next twelve telling them to sit down and shut up. Phyllis Diller Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Austinwja@AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:18 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: call for help Dear membership, I am looking for a few snazzy quotations from the famous on what makes a good teacher (or good teaching) -- anyone from Plato's/Aristotle's end of the timeline to the present. Whatever help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:22:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: call for help In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII "He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher." -- Walt Whitman On Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:50:44 -0400 Geoffrey Gatza wrote: > The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher > demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. > William Arthur Ward > > > The best teacher is the one who suggests rather than dogmatizes, and > inspires his listener with the wish to teach himself. > Edward Bulwer-Lytton > > Experience is the worst teacher; it gives the test before presenting the > lesson. > Vernon Law > > Experience is a hard teacher. She gives the test first and the lessons > afterwards. > Anonymous > > Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn at no other. > Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) > > A teacher is one who makes himself progressively unnecessary. > Thomas Carruthers > > A teacher affects eternity; he can never tell, where his influence stops. > Henry Brooks Adams > > > Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parent, gobble their food, > and tyrannize their teachers. > Socrates (470-399 B.C.) > > Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils. > Hector Louis Berlioz > > The whole art of teaching is only the art of awakening the natural curiosity > of young minds for the purpose of satisfying it afterwards. > Anatole France > > Teaching is not a lost art, but the regard for it is a lost tradition. > Jacques Barzun > > It is because modern education is so seldom inspired by a great hope that it > so seldom achieves great results. The wish to preserve the past rather that > the hope of creating the future dominates the minds of those who control the > teaching of the young. > Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) > > Good teaching is one-fourth preparation and three-fourths theater. > Gail Godwin > > We spend the first twelve months of our children's lives teaching them to > walk and talk and the next twelve telling them to sit down and shut up. > Phyllis Diller > > > > Best, Geoffrey > > > Geoffrey Gatza > editor BlazeVOX2k1 > http://vorplesword.com/ > __o > _`\<,_ > (*)/ (*) > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Austinwja@AOL.COM > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:18 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: call for help > > Dear membership, > > I am looking for a few snazzy quotations from the famous on what makes a > good > teacher (or good teaching) -- anyone from Plato's/Aristotle's end of the > timeline to the present. Whatever help you can provide will be greatly > appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > Best, Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > KojaPress.com > Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english/ institute for advanced technology in the humanities university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:04:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Susan Howe "difficulties" interview In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.1.20020421093156.01a45bc8@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey does anyone know how I can get a copy of this Susan Howe "Difficulties" interview? Is it on-line somewhere? Or does someone have a copy that they can perhaps photocopy and post to me? Kazim. ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:45:23 -0700 Reply-To: triste@u.arizona.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: triste Subject: Call for help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A thousand teachers; a thousand methods. Chinese proverb. I teach the No to all that makes weak?that exhausts. I teach the Yes to all that strengthens, that stores up strength, that pride. Friedrich Nietzsche A teacher is one who makes himself progressively unnecessary. - Thomas Carruthers I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think. - Socrates I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers. - Kahlil Gibran . ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:40:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: WHAt IS LAMGuagE POETRy? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed ? At 11:52 PM 4/20/02 -0700, you wrote: >WHAt IS LAMGuagE POETRy? > > > > > > >Language poetry is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary >poetics. > >Language poetry is held out to be one of the poetic modes of the present >moment. > >Language poetry is the biggest trend I see, experimental writing. > >Language poetry is about memory and shared experiences. > >Language poetry is a technology for memory and speed. > >Language poetry is the cutting edge of a sphere. > >Language poetry is here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture >injection of speed. > >Language poetry is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been the >regularly scheduled poetry. > >Language poetry is one of the most ancient and widespread of the arts. > >Language poetry is older than prose, and abstract speech more difficult. > >Language poetry is twenty years old. > >Language poetry is neither genre nor movement. > >Language poetry is there as a backdrop. > >Language poetry is seen as political act in the deepest sense. This poetry >is accessible to an American audience. > >Language poetry is a particularly American phenomenon that borrows from >European traditions and theories. > >Language poetry is an American phenomenon, not an Australian one. Explore >its possibilities. > >Language poetry is being explored and we are looking at the many techniques. > >Language poetry is about going beyond the boundaries of traditional / >conventional language usage. > >Language poetry is the refusal to take for granted the tyranny of meaning. > >Language poetry is not designed basically to communicate information. > >Language poetry is artistic noise: it resists the dreams of pure >communication. > >Language poetry is the highest form of language. > >Language poetry is one in which there is a number of established poets >operating in diverse ways. > >Language poetry is diverse, including a selection of poems by women. > >Language poetry is constructed as a niche market. > >Language poetry is academy-ready. The founders of the Language movement >were interested in ideas. > >Language poetry is a special type of language that attempts to express the >inexpressible. It is not the pragmatic. > >Language poetry is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical. > >Language poetry is influenced by theory. > >Language poetry is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt >adequately with issues. > >Language poetry is concerned, then, with what it is to be radical in theory. > >Language poetry is a way to make sense of the world. I never really know >what I think. > >Language poetry is first of all speaking with listening? a peculiar state >that is somehow self. > >Language poetry is more than this. Language poetry also takes the form of >statement and declaration. > >Language poetry is no harder to "get" than Cubism. > >Language poetry is blessed by Rosmarie Waldrop. > >Language poetry is impressive. > >Language poetry is vibrant. > >Language poetry is a way of expression open to anyone who chooses to use it. > >Language poetry is central to existence, to the real lives of real people. > >Language poetry is the passion of language and children enjoy that as well. > >Language poetry is the language for expressing emotions, as we know. > >Language poetry is about making language happen. > >Language poetry is redemptive. > >Language poetry is what gets lost in translation. > >Language poetry is not an attempt to obscure meaning through ambiguity. > >Language poetry is, as Stevens put it, the difference between the and an. > >Language poetry is Jacob's ladder for me: a place where earth and spirit >connect. > >Language poetry is our basic connection between our sense of self and the >cosmos. > >Language poetry is in for one helluva ride, I would think! > >Language poetry is by no means a toy in the hands of foreign rulers. > >Language poetry is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is oral. > >Language poetry is available in English, for example, but it doesn't have >the same value. > >Language poetry is often intended to be read on the page, but there are many >poems. > >Language poetry is undoubtedly the most self-critical--in the sense of self >promotion. > >Language poetry is both concise and precise, two of the most important >elements. > >Language poetry is also better than prose at shaping small subjects to >create intimate feeling. > >Language poetry is much more philosophically-based, and I think my poems are >still strongly rooted. > >Language poetry is best served when it attacks not language itself (give me >a good clause). > >Language poetry is wordplay, without the play. > >Language poetry is built of nothing but words, and must use what it finds to >hand. > >Language poetry is normally recited. > >Language poetry is a perfect way to describe the blurred understanding of >dreams. > >Language poetry is how we word ourselves across rivers we never crossed >before. > >Language poetry is an echo asking a shadow dancer to be a partner. > >Language poetry is in 839.8137 and a Norwegian-language novel is in 839.82. > >Language poetry is shit or that it is the shit--and no doubt that will be >educational. > >Language poetry is tae hae its first owersettin intae Chinese. > >Language poetry is uniquely accessible to the speakers of that language. > >Language poetry is what survives translation, not what's lost in it. > >Language poetry is especially powerful. I think the best way to understand >Language poetry is to meet some actual examples of it. > >Language poetry, as you probably know, is.... > >Language poetry is, what would you say? W: I don't think I would be able to >explain it. > >Language poetry is a recuperation by "literature" of something that was >questioning the poetic. > >Language poetry is ordered by production rather than reproduction. The >reader no longer reflects. > >Language poetry is a certain kind or quality of intellectuality, or seeming >intellectuality. > >Language poetry is an experience of referral in the place of transparent >signification. > >Language poetry is also fundamental because it speaks to the right content >through language. What.... > >Language poetry is really thinking about a lot of the poetry that one has >probably read. > >Language poetry is a performance art form involving signing rhythm and >movement. > >Language poetry is about moving an audience with sound and image. > >Language poetry is the painting of the blind, while painting is the poetry >of the deaf. > >Language poetry is a form of expression that allows our deepest soul to be >portrayed to others. > >Language poetry is a way to say something in a way that shows love and >elevates that. > >Language poetry is always the one you can feel more intensively. > >Language poetry is a very high form of linguistic intelligence. > >Language poetry is considered centripetal because the author tries to infuse >every word. > >Language poetry is a type of speech. Second, song lyrics are poetry stolen >back from the dull. > >Language poetry is a message ... a language of the old and the young. The >language of the weak and the strong. The language of patriots. > >Language poetry is written in verse; that is, the lamguage which makes up >the poem. > >Language poetry is an art form that places a very high value on rhythm, >rhyme, alliteration. > >Language poetry is language. A sharp distinction in theory between rhyme >and meter. > >Language poetry is usually presented in lines. Often poets express a great >deal. > >Language poetry is structured in short lines and verses. Most appealing >types of poetry are. > >Language poetry is essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is >frequently structured in stanzas. > >Language poetry is written mostly in iambic meters. > >Language poetry is written in iambic pentameters. > >Language poetry is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented >syllables alternate in lines. > >Language poetry is the syllable. Most poetry in the English language is >based on accentual-syllabic meter. > >Language poetry is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties of >the ambiguous and confrontational. > >Language poetry is an art, and it is common for artists to disagree. > >Language poetry is a particularly regular and effective tool for learning. >Topics are rich. > >Language poetry is one way in which our pupils see words coming to life. > >Language poetry is quoted from other sources, the Writer gives new contexts >to material. > >Language poetry is special language. > >Language poetry is not just a catch phrase to describe the words used in >making poems. > >Language poetry is more like a group. > >Language poetry is understood to be an art of imitation: imitation with new >inflections. > >Language poetry is poetry. Actually, poets can't do it, either. Unless you >believe Language poetry is poetry. > >Language poetry is correlative to no object, including its own notion. > >Language poetry is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language >clear and honest. > >Language poetry is a term I prefer not to use. > >Language poetry is not "literature" and is not worth wasting parchment and >ink on. > >Language poetry is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the word language, which >belongs to all. > >Language poetry is misleading. > >Language poetry is a self-defeating fiction. > >Language poetry is autobiographical at its fundament, even if an attempt to >purge self. > >Language poetry is also provided. > >Language poetry is also included. According to Dr Puru Sharma, it is >difficult to write poems. > >Language poetry is waka. > >Language poetry is a transcendence of logical confinement. A wonderful wine >poured into a bottle. > >Language poetry is at once deep and humorous--deeply, often darkly, >humorous. > >Language poetry is not for everyone. They place Language poetry as a gender >and class. > >Language poetry is not as explicitly multi-authored as web networks are, the >expressive power of multiple context remains one of its main concerns. > >Language poetry is here understood as simply one of the functions that can >be. > >Language poetry is not a secondary phenomenon: it has a special relation to >being and truth. > >Language poetry is release (Gelassenheit). > >Language poetry is good for you--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap >points to consider.... > >Language poetry is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets and divers of >sea fathoms.... > >Language poetry is flowing. A philosopher is talking to you and yet you just >can not.... > >Language poetry is filled with this type language, but so is regular >language. The dog loved.... > >Language poetry is lost, but meaning may become more accessible. Her >luminous watercolors, as ever.... > >Language poetry is above all a concentration of the power of language. > >Language poetry is the only poetry that is language, but the term has long >been used. > >Language poetry is the essence and the power of language. I think all of us >are poets. > >Language poetry is the best I've found anywhere on the web. Know it, use >it, love it. > > > > > > > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >K. Silem Mohammad >Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit >University of California Santa Cruz > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:45:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Karen Kelley ("query") In-Reply-To: <20020421150503.88785.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed wowiezowie honesty, k'powie rimes, mus' b pome i think gene At 08:05 AM 4/21/02 -0700, you wrote: >cstroffo@earthlink.net wrote: > > > Hello--- Does anybody have contact info for the poet >Karen Kelley? And, if so, could you > > > backchannel me? thanks, Chris > > >Dear Chris, > >Here I am, Chris: Karen Kelley, the one after whom you >queried so desirously. > >I am but making employment of this anonymous >jeffreyjullich@yahoo.com account, > >as sometimes a lady may have recourse to britches. > >What wish of yours may I fulfill, Chris? Is it **O >poems** of mine you would like to PUBLISH in a >saddle-stapled print journal!!!? Or a literary >criticism you might like to make of my enjoyable >versification? > >No need for the "Back-Channel," Chris, as you so >euphemistically call it > >(cha.no.yu [chah'no-yoo] : An ancient Japanese ritual >for the preparation, serving, and drinking of tea < J. >"hot water"). > >You may speak your heart's whims here in the open >forum amongst our peers (You have no scurrilous intent >to your query, then) as on a gingham picnic blanket in >the open air. > >Karen Kelley > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more >http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:10:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Incestry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List, The other day Richard Tylr posed a question I hardly ever get asked: Am I related to Rudolf Hess, Hitler's right hand man? I thought of letting this go, because it seems to have been asked in jest (as if humor could ever be evoked by such a reference). Nonetheless I feel like I must clear my name and reassure people that no relatives of mine were Nazis and no ancestors came over in U-boats. The word "fascist" is used a lot in literary circles to describe people with extreme opinions. I would like to see an end to this particular kind of easy name-calling. thanks, dave P.S.: I know some of you think I look German but you're wrong. I LOOK SWISS! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:31:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Who Wants My Book? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again, Last year the kind folks at Skanky Possum Press put together a chapbook of ten 'early' poems called Cage Dances. It's not available through the publisher or SPD, so I'm making this offer: 10 free copies in exchange for something, a book or some poems, doesn't matter really. Otherwise, I''ll be making xeroxes for anyone who wants one. I hope that makes sense. Give me your full name and address if you write me, dave ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:34:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Incestry In-Reply-To: <21.1ccc16ad.29f4d90e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit actually you look like a swiss army knife. A neat red thing to play with but if not careful can cut Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of David Hess Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 11:10 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Incestry Dear List, The other day Richard Tylr posed a question I hardly ever get asked: Am I related to Rudolf Hess, Hitler's right hand man? I thought of letting this go, because it seems to have been asked in jest (as if humor could ever be evoked by such a reference). Nonetheless I feel like I must clear my name and reassure people that no relatives of mine were Nazis and no ancestors came over in U-boats. The word "fascist" is used a lot in literary circles to describe people with extreme opinions. I would like to see an end to this particular kind of easy name-calling. thanks, dave P.S.: I know some of you think I look German but you're wrong. I LOOK SWISS! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 01:16:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: THE LEGION OF DOOM Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE LEGION OF DOOM Greatest Super-Villains Of All Time! Superman speaks as the last survivor of the planet Earth and tells of the incredible disaster unleashed by the Legion of Doom. its times like these when no one seems to care that pride in ones work comes at a price. when all spectacle comes force upon blade crank shaft over a slide rule, Intel over ADM thirteen villains gathered together, the Hall of Doom representing the ultimate arch-enemies; a foil of form in order to destroy/ or /rule the world, the last will be first and the thirteen will ride dark animators glory sky when you first see a horse it is frightening a tiger swooping a gentle cats sleep but it is the man on top that call the eye upwards to the sword or pistol on his side, a wool blanket at the time of death what thoughts will swirl in my head when energy departs for new horizons; what thoughts will remain to challenge the combined strength of the Super Friends Lex Luthor founded this Legion of Doom if one falls against many many against many on that day many will fall one will be won, held by the ones left standing There is no telling what the evil mind can accomplish In a murky swamp Grodd the gorilla is frustrated by insipid plans for global conquest Luthor silences him for Captain Cold has recently been in contact with an advanced civilization from the planet of Venus The feminine yet ferocious Giganta is unimpressed but Bizarro calmly claims he can make it not work. Or rather 'to work' Luthor amends Sinestro and Bizarro will fly to the Moon using an atomic laser they cut it in half to retrieve the Robalt element deep within its core The astronauts of Moon Base One will be thrown into deep space and the debris will disrupt the solar flows and crash the Earth into the Sun The Toyman will lure the Green Lantern to his planet of toys, with well placed traps placing false distress calls sending the Super friends on a wild goose chase that will end them right out of the Universe As The Legion of Doom their ingenious plan goes into action After repairing the NASA space station on the far side of the moon and wishing its astronauts well Hawkman, Green Lantern and The Dynamic Duo in the Hawk Plane fly for home They hear Superman's distress call, which is actually a Toyman trick, head off to find what happened Earth. Frigid Captain Cold sets out with his giant freezing ray, blue spun butter freezing Washington D.C., San Francisco, New York. Aquaman arrives to the scene of destruction to find the sinister, humorous Riddler [A question mark looms on the high seas] only to be subdued by with the Noxium crystal. Luthor and the others then plan their next target, Wonder Woman. The cunning Cheetah tries to break into the Metropolis Electrical Plant and fools Wonder Woman into harnessing a robot rocket with her Magic Lasso. We do not see her again In Washington D.C the super intelligent android Brainiac duplicates all of the world leaders, replacing their forms with robotics and their plan to conquest the Earth is almost set. Black Manta and the hideous Scarecrow ends their plans beaming the mental matter ray straight through to all of the worlds peoples through to all of the worlds television sets They slip into the universe of Qward and leave behind three antimatter robots as a trap that will destroy the Super Friends once they are touched. Chief O'Hara informs them that Grodd and Solomon Grundy are attempting to break into the Gotham City Treasury. Superman and Black Vulcan race to intercept them. Luthor's mind control paralyzes them. The Legion of Doom streak on their deadly course to worldwide conquest ... A spaceship lands and three aliens emerge wondering what happened. The Earth in shambles, black crustings of life nothing moves in silence; no one is alive END OF WORLD NEAR - SUPER FRIENDS NO HELP!!". no one is alive and nothing moves in silence The aliens see the people of Earth never understood that the use of force over force to solve problems always brings not only chaos but ripples in space and time. they decided it is in the universes best interest to give the Earth life once more a second chance at life and undo and turn back time to before the disaster. to relive their disasters only with bit of help from new friends. The Legion of Doom tries to battle rivals spin in orbits but are soon rounded up with the help of the mental matter ray. The Legion of Doom will never break away from justice or the Super Friends. when you first see a horse it is frightening Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 01:22:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: THE LEGION OF DOOM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit actually, it's amd...unless you're thinking of another processor manufacturer... > its times like these when no one seems to care > that pride in ones work comes at a price. > when all spectacle comes force upon blade > crank shaft over a slide rule, Intel over ADM ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 01:31:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: THE LEGION OF DOOM In-Reply-To: <000501c1e9bd$bfa1d770$aa0d0e44@vaio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually I was intending Archer Daniels Midland, the supermarket to the world. I am will have to take that into consideration for the line to work. Thanks :-) Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ __o _`\<,_ (*)/ (*) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Duration Press Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 1:23 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: THE LEGION OF DOOM actually, it's amd...unless you're thinking of another processor manufacturer... > its times like these when no one seems to care > that pride in ones work comes at a price. > when all spectacle comes force upon blade > crank shaft over a slide rule, Intel over ADM ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:52:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: Re: call for help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "To teach is not to transfer knowledge but to create the possibility for the production or construction of knowledge." "To transform the experience of educating into a matter of simple technique is to impoverish what is fundamentally human in this experience: namely, its capacity to form the human person. If we have any regard for what it means to be human, the teaching of contents cannot be separated from the moral formation of the learners." -- Paulo Freire ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:19:58 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Incestry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave. As you know I was reminiscing with some old school chums and we'd imbibed more than the usual brandies...actually I find Rudolf Hess quite an interesting character: I dont see why we cant make humour about anything. I think that's half the trouble in Israel: the Israealis hark back endlessly to their holocaust (the poor me syndrome) while they hammer the hell out of the Palestinians in a land they stole of using Nazi methods: and nowadays Israel is basically the stooge of the US receiving I belkieve about US$5 billion to keep up the shit stirrring over there. Dont get worked up over a name while that shits going down. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hess" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:10 PM Subject: Incestry > Dear List, > > The other day Richard Tylr posed a question I hardly ever get asked: Am I > related to Rudolf Hess, Hitler's right hand man? I thought of letting this > go, because it seems to have been asked in jest (as if humor could ever be > evoked by such a reference). Nonetheless I feel like I must clear my name and > reassure people that no relatives of mine were Nazis and no ancestors came > over in U-boats. > > The word "fascist" is used a lot in literary circles to describe people with > extreme opinions. I would like to see an end to this particular kind of easy > name-calling. > > thanks, > dave > > P.S.: I know some of you think I look German but you're wrong. I LOOK SWISS! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:54:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Incestry In-Reply-To: <004301c1e9ce$23369900$1f6e36d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I find the crack about the Holocaust hurtful. And, I'm not a Zionist. It's historically accurate to separate the Holocaust and its horror from the disaster of Zionism. More properly, the Holocaust can only really be a holocaust. There have been many, affecting different peoples; e.g., African slave trade, American slave system, treatment of American Indians or Australian aboriginal people, massacre of Armenians etc. On the question of humor, I don't find fun in what people cannot change such as race, gender, physical disability. And why should they change surnames either? Gene At 07:19 PM 4/22/02 +1200, you wrote: >Dave. As you know I was reminiscing with some old school chums and we'd >imbibed more than the usual brandies...actually I find Rudolf Hess quite an >interesting character: I dont see why we cant make humour about anything. I >think that's half the trouble in Israel: the Israealis hark back endlessly >to their holocaust (the poor me syndrome) while they hammer the hell out of >the Palestinians in a land they stole of using Nazi methods: and nowadays >Israel is basically the stooge of the US receiving I belkieve about US$5 >billion to keep up the shit stirrring over there. Dont get worked up over a >name while that shits going down. Richard. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Hess" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:10 PM >Subject: Incestry > > > > Dear List, > > > > The other day Richard Tylr posed a question I hardly ever get asked: Am I > > related to Rudolf Hess, Hitler's right hand man? I thought of letting this > > go, because it seems to have been asked in jest (as if humor could ever be > > evoked by such a reference). Nonetheless I feel like I must clear my name >and > > reassure people that no relatives of mine were Nazis and no ancestors came > > over in U-boats. > > > > The word "fascist" is used a lot in literary circles to describe people >with > > extreme opinions. I would like to see an end to this particular kind of >easy > > name-calling. > > > > thanks, > > dave > > > > P.S.: I know some of you think I look German but you're wrong. I LOOK >SWISS! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:57:33 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: 'the books' from things not worth keeping Comments: cc: Kirsten Lavers Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi i want to make of those apologies in advance in respect of cross-posting. things not worth keeping are proud to announce: =8CThe Books=B9, the first in a planned series of 10 (subscription only) publications over the next two-three years. Chapter 1 : The Gathering Every chapter in the series will be produced in the same square format (20c= m x 20cm) and in full colour throughout - 24pp featuring 10 composed double-page spreads building towards a 240pp full-colour artwork. The serie= s presents a continuous narrative that weaves documentation and fiction into = a radical version, not a conclusion, of =8CThe Books=B9 project. We=B9re working with the conversations we like to imagine between artists=B9 books, graphic novels/poems and contemporary poetics. We=B9ve been working with this material since the autumn of 1998 - through a number of installation, performance and web based occurrences, some of whic= h you may have already heard about, witnessed or even participated in. More details are online at www.thingsnotworthkeeping.com. The work explores and makes explicit ideas about collaboration. We have just begun a targetted mail-out of the free launch issue intended t= o generate subscribers and sponsors for the rest of the series. We have a number of blank envelopes remaining. IF you would like to receive the invite package - including the free first issue - and IF you are a series candidate to become an individual or institutional subscriber / sponsor (the rates are not at all prohibitive : =A340 with a =A330 concessionary rate for all 10 books, separate rates for sponsors and institutions) then b/c us your address and we'll get them in the post this week. We're stressing this indication of serious intent as they are expensive to produce and we're not able to give away endless freebies. I might add that 'the books' will not be available for separate purchase.=20 looking forward cris cheek and kirsten lavers (on behalf of things not worth keeping) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:34:27 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Incestry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It wasnt a crack. I was serious. But not about Dave being related to Rudolf Hess. I've always been interested in the "Hess incident" though, and it seems that Hess had the idea that the British would listen to him: now that has always seemed to me to be almost heroic, if bizarre...I dont know much about Rudolf Hess: like all the Nazis he seems a rather pathetic figure. But maybe he thought that he could obviate some of the more terrible aspects: I dont know why they arrested a man whoseemed to be defecting to their side: but then I dont know much about that incident. I se parallels between the Isarelis and the Nazis. I se a link: in a sense the present vilence may be 'caused" by that holocaust. But its time for negotiation: for the UN to step in and try Sharon and Bush as war criminals. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gene" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Incestry > I find the crack about the Holocaust hurtful. And, I'm not a > Zionist. It's historically accurate to separate the Holocaust and its > horror from the disaster of Zionism. More properly, the Holocaust can only > really be a holocaust. There have been many, affecting different peoples; > e.g., African slave trade, American slave system, treatment of American > Indians or Australian aboriginal people, massacre of Armenians etc. > > On the question of humor, I don't find fun in what people cannot change > such as race, gender, physical disability. And why should they change > surnames either? > > > > Gene > > > > > > > At 07:19 PM 4/22/02 +1200, you wrote: > >Dave. As you know I was reminiscing with some old school chums and we'd > >imbibed more than the usual brandies...actually I find Rudolf Hess quite an > >interesting character: I dont see why we cant make humour about anything. I > >think that's half the trouble in Israel: the Israealis hark back endlessly > >to their holocaust (the poor me syndrome) while they hammer the hell out of > >the Palestinians in a land they stole of using Nazi methods: and nowadays > >Israel is basically the stooge of the US receiving I belkieve about US$5 > >billion to keep up the shit stirrring over there. Dont get worked up over a > >name while that shits going down. Richard. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "David Hess" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:10 PM > >Subject: Incestry > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > The other day Richard Tylr posed a question I hardly ever get asked: Am I > > > related to Rudolf Hess, Hitler's right hand man? I thought of letting this > > > go, because it seems to have been asked in jest (as if humor could ever be > > > evoked by such a reference). Nonetheless I feel like I must clear my name > >and > > > reassure people that no relatives of mine were Nazis and no ancestors came > > > over in U-boats. > > > > > > The word "fascist" is used a lot in literary circles to describe people > >with > > > extreme opinions. I would like to see an end to this particular kind of > >easy > > > name-calling. > > > > > > thanks, > > > dave > > > > > > P.S.: I know some of you think I look German but you're wrong. I LOOK > >SWISS! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:37:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: THE LEGION OF DOOM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for this, Geoff. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:08:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: intent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom I understand the threat of violence. At the risk of sounding like 1962 Norman Mailer, I would also say that the threat of violence, while being a component of violence, is more properly defined as terror. Part of my former job involved funding battered women's shelters. Part of my former job involved visiting social programs located in neighborhoods where, with uncanny coincidence, a drive-by shooting had occurred the night before. I knew risk and terror before 9/11. But pursuing this discussion leads to yet another digression. Valid as the subject may be, I don't wish to pursue it. The point I was making was that the discussion of nature poetry in general had wandered too far afield, and had less and less to do with Spahr's original comments. Vernon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Bell" To: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 2:39 PM Subject: Re: intent > in my mind 'philosopical muscle' is how we got into today's muddle. > > when you talk of violence you also need to be aware of the power of the > threat of violence. women who have been abused often live the rest of their > lives in fear of it's recurrence and in America today we live conscously or > unconsciously in fear of terrorism even if we have cubscout Bush behind us. > > tom > > spouting today i guess. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:27:57 -0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Subject: Repeat Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Spuyten Dyvil URL for Conviction's Net of Branches is: http://www.spuytenduyvil.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:48:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: "Language poetry is" (Google dub) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Language poetry is constructed as a niche market, and its small presses as a critique of bourgeois society. Specifically, what has come to be known as Language Poetry is held out to be one of the poetic modes of the present moment in other registers of the poetic community. Academic scrutiny of "Language poetry" is impressive, particularly for a small press movement of poets, now mostly the current situation of Irish language poetry is one in which there is a number of established poets operating in diverse ways, and a few individual new and from various directions. The poet is a word craftsman, a master of language. Poetry is the highest form of language. Brodsky sees it also as the highest form in their attitude to those like Bob Perelman, who have moved within. Language poetry is concerned, then, with what it is to be radical in theory, practice and Ammons. It's not a viewpoint to which I 'm entirely unsympathetic. Language poetry is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately with issues politics that exists only in other people's dismissal of it. Similarly, "Language Poetry" is neither genre nor movement, and the name given to the poetry for Potts? interest in Language poetry is indicated in the only epigraph in the book. Barrett Watten?s "Authority is to representation as trauma is to dreams a new poetry, an *Australian* language poetry rather than an *English* language poetry, is there as a backdrop. But the separation of the new from the principal divide between prose and poetry is the sound of the language. Poetry is an art form that places a very high value on rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. Language Poetry is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary poetics Often viewed as an estranging, intellectual (as opposed to purely aesthetic is media-ready and therefore beloved by even the print media, language poetry is academy-ready. The founders of the language movement were interested in ideas the present political chaos is connected with the decay of language ..." Poetry is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language clear and honest art practised with the terribly plastic material of human language. Poetry is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets and divers of sea fathoms is the realm of poetry, or poetic language. Poetry is a special type of language that attempts to "express the inexpressible." It is not the pragmatic LANGUAGE POETRY. One of the most conversial movements in experimental poetry, language poetry is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical Language Poets, a socially contrived basis of writing. Language poetry is about going beyond the boundaries "traditional/ conventional" language usage been good for poetry written in German; indeed, contemporary German-language poetry is vibrant. This poetry is accessible to an American audience, but he doesn't bother to write down the poem itself-- not worth wasting parchment and ink. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:04:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: "New York School poetry is" (Google dub) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Searched the web for "new york school poetry is". Results 1 - 1 of 1. Search took 0.46 seconds. Ange Mlinko Interview ... used to judge poetry ? to its detriment ? time and time again. New York School poetry is a sensibility, as is dreary post-war British poetry. Surrealism is a ... home.jps.net/~nada/mlinko.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages Search within results Dissatisfied with your results? Help us improve. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:08:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: Re: "Language poetry is" (Google dub) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT There is a very interesting discussion of Language Poetry in the latest issue of Flashpoint, one of the better web mags we have: http://www.flashpointmag.com/ kg Gary Sullivan wrote: > Language poetry is constructed as a niche market, > and its small presses as > a critique of bourgeois society. > Specifically, what has come to be known as Language > > Poetry is held out to be one of the poetic modes > of the present moment > in other registers of the poetic community. > Academic scrutiny of "Language poetry" > > is impressive, particularly for a small > press movement of poets, now mostly > the current situation of Irish language poetry is > one in which there is a number > > of established poets operating > in diverse ways, and a few individual new and > from various directions. The poet is a word > craftsman, a master of language. Poetry > > is the highest form of language. Brodsky > sees it also as the highest form > in their attitude to those like Bob > Perelman, who have moved within. Language poetry > > is concerned, then, with what it is to be > radical in theory, practice and > Ammons. It's not a viewpoint to which I > 'm entirely unsympathetic. Language poetry > > is also often seen as elitist because it never > dealt adequately with issues > politics that exists only in other people's > dismissal of it. Similarly, "Language > > Poetry" is neither genre nor movement, > and the name given to the poetry for > Potts? interest in Language poetry is > indicated in the only epigraph in the book. > > Barrett Watten?s "Authority is to representation > as trauma is to dreams > a new poetry, an *Australian* language poetry > rather than an *English* language > > poetry, is there as a backdrop. But the separation > of the new from the > principal divide between prose and poetry > is the sound of the language. Poetry > > is an art form that places a very high value > on rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. > Language Poetry is a movement of convincing authority > in contemporary poetics > > Often viewed as an estranging, intellectual > (as opposed to purely aesthetic > is media-ready and therefore beloved by even the print > media, language poetry is > > academy-ready. The founders of the language > movement were interested in ideas > the present political chaos is connected > with the decay of language ..." Poetry > > is not the entire solution > to keeping the nation's language clear and honest > art practised with the terribly > plastic material of human language. Poetry > > is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets > and divers of sea fathoms > is the realm of poetry, or poetic language. Poetry is > a special type of language > > that attempts to "express the inexpressible." It is > not the pragmatic > LANGUAGE POETRY. One of the most conversial movements > in experimental poetry, > > language poetry is highly personal, intellectual > and stylistically radical > Language Poets, a socially contrived basis of writing. > Language poetry is > > about going beyond the boundaries "traditional/ > conventional" language usage > been good for poetry written in German; > indeed, contemporary German-language poetry > > is vibrant. This poetry is accessible > to an American audience, but he doesn't bother > to write down the poem itself-- > not worth wasting parchment and ink. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com -- Kevin Gallagher Global Development and Environment Institute Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy Tufts University Medford, MA 02155 t:617-627-5467 f:617-627-2409 http://ase.tufts.edu/gdae ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:14:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: GO MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT CELTICS 1-0! Jim Behrle wrote: > ******************************************************************************* > > dear all, > > I've been in the process of updating my robert duncan information website-- > it is now at > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/robertduncan.htm > > There are also new addresses for subpress collective-- > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/newbooks.htm > > and the school of continuation-- > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm > > and A NEW WEBSITE FROM THE NEW MUSIC AND POETRY CLEARINGHOUSE-- > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/tunes.htm > > with information about my new CD-- Poems from Ring of Fire-- a > collaboration with several new york city area musicians. There is some > great stuff on this site if you're looking for xmas gift ideas and you want > to support the independent music/poetry scene. > > Best, > > Lisa Jarnot > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Kevin Gallagher Global Development and Environment Institute Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy Tufts University Medford, MA 02155 t:617-627-5467 f:617-627-2409 http://ase.tufts.edu/gdae ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:37:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: antonym of "juvenilia" In-Reply-To: <008001c1ea18$01237460$4b63f30c@attbi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Is there a word for writing done by great writers when they are very old? Help! Pls backchannel. Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:21:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: book suggestions In-Reply-To: <3CC4276D.50F5EDD@emerald.tufts.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, all. I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of students who won't have read much lit at all in their lives, and who tend to see lit as something intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture references, sex and drug content and other things my students will be surprised to find in literature. And I definitely want to include writers of color, queer writers, etc. So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. Much obliged, Arielle PS Thanks for the recent postings of Language Po defintions--very useful! The Flashpoint stuff was great! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:39:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wendy Kramer Subject: Wendy Kramer new contact info Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi, everyone, it's wendy kramer. i'm moving to san francisco in a few days. here's my new contact info, including e-mail, as of May 8th: Wendy Kramer 1096 Pine Street #401 San Francisco, CA 94109 phone: 415-359-0907 email: deedeekra@earthlink.com Please note this is starting May 8th. I will not be reachable there until then, and please no snail there til then thanks. here's my hotmail account for the interim, which i will check intermittently: bendy63@hotmail.com yippee see y'all on the left coast :)) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:40:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: book suggestions In-Reply-To: <20020422162130.43560.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit House of Leaves Mark Z. Danielewski Check out the web page at culture vulture http://www.culturevulture.net/Books/HouseofLeaves.htm Best, Geoffrey -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Arielle Greenberg Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 12:22 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: book suggestions Hi, all. I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of students who won't have read much lit at all in their lives, and who tend to see lit as something intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture references, sex and drug content and other things my students will be surprised to find in literature. And I definitely want to include writers of color, queer writers, etc. So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. Much obliged, Arielle PS Thanks for the recent postings of Language Po defintions--very useful! The Flashpoint stuff was great! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:50:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: WHAt IS Terrorism? (A Cento) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, but I couldn't resist. . . WHAt IS Terrorism? Terrorism is a certain kind or quality of intellectuality, or seeming intellectuality. Terrorism is a form of expression that allows our deepest soul to be portrayed to others. Terrorism is a message ... a language of the old and the young. The language of the weak and the strong. The language of patriots. Terrorism is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary terror. Terrorism is a particularly American phenomenon that borrows from European traditions and theories. Terrorism is a particularly regular and effective tool for learning. Topics are rich. Terrorism is a perfect way to describe the blurred understanding of dreams. Terrorism is a performance art form involving signing rhythm and movement. Terrorism is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets and divers of sea fathoms.... Terrorism is a recuperation by "literature" of something that was questioning the poetic. Terrorism is a self-defeating fiction. Terrorism is a special type of language that attempts to express the inexpressible. It is not the pragmatic. Terrorism is a technology for memory and speed. Terrorism is a term I prefer not to use. Terrorism is a transcendence of logical confinement. A wonderful wine poured into a bottle. Terrorism is a type of speech. Second, song lyrics are stolen back from the dull. Terrorism is a very high form of linguistic intelligence. Terrorism is a way of expression open to anyone who chooses to use it. Terrorism is a way to make sense of the world. I never really know what I think. Terrorism is a way to say something in a way that shows love and elevates that. Terrorism is about going beyond the boundaries of traditional / conventional language usage. Terrorism is about making language happen. Terrorism is about memory and shared experiences. Terrorism is about moving an audience with sound and image. Terrorism is above all a concentration of the power of language. Terrorism is academy-ready. The founders were interested in ideas. Terrorism is also better than prose at shaping small subjects to create intimate feeling. Terrorism is also fundamental because it speaks to the right content through language. What.... Terrorism is also included but difficult to write. Terrorism is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately with issues. Terrorism is also provided. Terrorism is always the one you can feel more intensively. Terrorism is an American phenomenon, not an Australian one. Explore its possibilities. Terrorism is an art form that places a very high value on rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. Terrorism is an art, and it is common for artists to disagree. Terrorism is an echo asking a shadow dancer to be a partner. Terrorism is an experience of referral in the place of transparent signification. Terrorism is artistic noise: it resists the dreams of pure communication. Terrorism is at once deep and humorous--deeply, often darkly, humorous. Terrorism is autobiographical at its fundament, even if an attempt to purge self. Terrorism is available in English, for example, but it doesn't have the same value. Terrorism is being explored and we are looking at the many techniques. Terrorism is best served when it attacks not language itself (give me a good clause). Terrorism is blessed by many. Terrorism is both concise and precise, two of the most important elements. Terrorism is built of nothing but words, and must use what it finds to hand. Terrorism is by no means a toy in the hands of foreign rulers. Terrorism is central to existence, to the real lives of real people. Terrorism is concerned, then, with what it is to be radical in theory. Terrorism is considered centripetal because the author tries to infuse every word. Terrorism is constructed as a niche market. Terrorism is correlative to no object, including its own notion. Terrorism is diverse, including a selection by women. Terrorism is especially powerful. I think the best way to understand Terrorism is essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is frequently structured in stanzas. Terrorism is filled with this type language, but so is regular language. The dog loved it. Terrorism is first of all speaking with listening? a peculiar state that is somehow self. Terrorism is flowing. A philosopher is talking to you and yet you just can not.... Terrorism is good for you--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap points to consider.... Terrorism is held out to be one of the modes of the present moment. Terrorism is here understood as simply one of the functions that can be. Terrorism is here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture injection of speed. Terrorism is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical. Terrorism is how we word ourselves across rivers we never crossed before. Terrorism is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented syllables alternate in lines. Terrorism is impressive. Terrorism is in 839.8137 and a Norwegian-language novel is in 839.82. Terrorism is in for one helluva ride, I would think! Terrorism is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been the regularly scheduled. Terrorism is influenced by theory. Terrorism is Jacob's ladder for me: a place where earth and spirit connect. Terrorism is language. A sharp distinction in theory between rhyme and meter. Terrorism is lost, but meaning may become more accessible. Her luminous watercolors, as ever.... Terrorism is misleading. Terrorism is more like a group. Terrorism is more than this. Terrorism also takes the form of statement and declaration. Terrorism is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is oral. Terrorism is much more philosophically-based. Terrorism is neither genre nor movement. Terrorism is no harder to "get" than Cubism. Terrorism is normally recited. Terrorism is not "literature" and is not worth wasting parchment and ink on. Terrorism is not a secondary phenomenon: it has a special relation to being and truth. Terrorism is not an attempt to obscure meaning through ambiguity. Terrorism is not as explicitly multi-authored as web networks are, the expressive power of multiple context remains one of its main concerns. Terrorism is not designed basically to communicate information. Terrorism is not for everyone. They place Terrorism as a gender and class. Terrorism is not just a catch phrase to describe the words used in making. Terrorism is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language clear and honest. Terrorism is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the word language, which belongs to all. Terrorism is often intended to be read on the page. Terrorism is older than prose, and abstract speech more difficult. Terrorism is one in which there is a number of established people operating in diverse ways. Terrorism is one of the most ancient and widespread of the arts. Terrorism is one way in which our pupils see words coming to life. Terrorism is ordered by production rather than reproduction. The reader no longer reflects. Terrorism is our basic connection between our sense of self and the cosmos. Terrorism is poetry. Actually, poets can't do it, either. Unless you believe Terrorism is poetry. Terrorism is quoted from other sources, the Writer gives new contexts to material. Terrorism is really thinking about a lot about what one has probably read. Terrorism is redemptive. Terrorism is release (Gelassenheit). Terrorism is seen as political act in the deepest sense. Terrorism is shit or that it is the shit--and no doubt that will be educational. Terrorism is special language. Terrorism is structured in short lines and verses. Most appealing things are. Terrorism is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties of the ambiguous and confrontational. Terrorism is tae hae its first owersettin intae Chinese. Terrorism is best found anywhere on the web. Know it, use it, love it. Terrorism is the biggest trend seen. Terrorism is the cutting edge of a sphere. Terrorism is the essence and the power of language. Terrorism is the highest form of language. Terrorism is the language for expressing emotions, as we know. Terrorism is the only things that is language, but the term has long been used. Terrorism is the painting of the blind, while painting is the poetry of the deaf. Terrorism is the passion of language and children enjoy that as well. Terrorism is the refusal to take for granted the tyranny of meaning. Terrorism is the syllable. Terrorism is there as a backdrop. Terrorism is to meet some actual examples of it. Terrorism is at least twenty years old. Terrorism is understood to be an art of imitation: imitation with new inflections. Terrorism is undoubtedly the most self-critical--in the sense of self promotion. Terrorism is uniquely accessible to the speakers of that language. Terrorism is usually presented in lines. Terrorism is vibrant. Terrorism is waka. Terrorism is what gets lost in translation. Terrorism is what survives translation, not what's lost in it. Terrorism is wordplay, without the play. Terrorism is written in iambic pentameters. Terrorism is written in verse; that is, the lamguage which makes it up. Terrorism is written mostly in iambic meters. Terrorism is, as someone said, , the difference between is and was. Terrorism is, what would you say? W: I don't think I would be able to explain it. Terrorism, as you probably know, is.... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:52:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: antonym of "juvenilia" In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks to a number of you for backchanneling. In the absence of a "real" word, I vote for the second of these (thanks especially, Halvard Johnson): senescilia gerontilia gerontographs mature work senilenia And in fact have already used it in an essay. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:15:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: book suggestions In-Reply-To: <20020422162130.43560.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit sorry this is so scattered but it was a radomed collection BrothertoBrother is a good collection og gay black writer a good break in anthology is postmondern american fiction: a norton antholgy...has some of every one... I foundmy students loved the laurie anderson, brautigan, and spiegelman...a great collection In as far as queer..a couple things.. po man's child by marci blackman.. is a wonderful book... for queer creative nonfiction, there is nothing better than Kate bornsteins - Gender Outlaw... Marguerite Duras -The Malady of Death Willaim Gass - on being blue or at lest parts of it as an investagation. Francis Ponge - as far as a way to see things Aruther Sze - would be the same thing... Lisa Jarnot - for flow in her newest book the animals would be a great entry point for some.. good luck kari _____________________ ". . . they are taught history about Washington, and lies about Lenin." Ayot St Lawrence on 4/22/02 9:21 AM, Arielle Greenberg at ariellecg@YAHOO.COM wrote: > Hi, all. > > I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. > I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing > on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by > very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to > be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of > students who won't have read much lit at all in their > lives, and who tend to see lit as something > intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and > relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. > Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture > references, sex and drug content and other things my > students will be surprised to find in literature. And > I definitely want to include writers of color, queer > writers, etc. > > So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, > poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. > > Much obliged, > Arielle > > PS Thanks for the recent postings of Language Po > defintions--very useful! The Flashpoint stuff was > great! > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:16:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Elena Caballero-Robb Subject: Howe's _Pierce-Arrow_ MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear List, Can anyone recommend essays/reviews of Susan Howe's _Pierce-Arrow_? Backchannel fine. Thanks in advance. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Maria Elena Caballero-Robb Literature Department University of California, Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, California 95064 mecr@cats.ucsc.edu %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:53:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: robert penny Subject: Re: book suggestions In-Reply-To: <20020422162130.43560.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Roll Call: A Generational Anthology of Social & Political Black Literature & Art edited by Tony Medina, Samiya A. Bashir, Quraysh Ali Lansana. Chicago: Third World Press, 2002. ISBN: o--883-78239-1 (pbk). --On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 9:21 AM -0700 Arielle Greenberg wrote:r > Hi, all. > > I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. > I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing > on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by > very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to > be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of > students who won't have read much lit at all in their > lives, and who tend to see lit as something > intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and > relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. > Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture > references, sex and drug content and other things my > students will be surprised to find in literature. And > I definitely want to include writers of color, queer > writers, etc. > > So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, > poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. > > Much obliged, > Arielle > > PS Thanks for the recent postings of Language Po > defintions--very useful! The Flashpoint stuff was > great! > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:16:01 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Parody/definition of Language Poetry Comments: To: Webartery List , thePoetPablo , SUPPLE - MENTAL , "SCHIZOPH: Schizophrenia Discussion Group" , Martha L Deed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is my parody of Language Poetry... LAN.GAUGE* PO.a.tree or *[this not a typo] by by Millie Niss LAN (as in the lost Lan dynasty of Nepal where toads are king not kings for all is one and one is all there in Nepal) GAUGE (well, to show we're jes your down to earth fok's who looks at gauges, not some uppity academic poet types who wunt never spell out nobodys accent like dis. It aint politically correct, but den, neither is we--- here is de gauges: odometers speedomieters gas gauges odometers elongometers sonometeter erectometers speedometers odometers accelerometers throbomemters and... ahh....no more need for mechanics xcept the long neglected shrinkometer... P.S. I is ackshully Shakespearean Actor by profeshun and my job is neva neva to talk like dis no moah, so it kinda fun. anyhow, as you knows or awta, dis is not how black folks talk; schools of linguistics are busy studying dat and it ait dis, dis is jes silly, My Liege PPS. I just got dumped. I am a good cook, slender and handome, and best of all I can recite appropriate bits (or whole sonnets and soliloquies) of Shakespeare to my lover. At 40, I'm still healthy, work out every day, and at the same time keep up with the latest in literature and culture). I am looking for an intelligent, beautiful man or woman (any race, but human preferred) to share my lifestyle. I promise I won't act jealous like Othello. That's the only starring role I got for the first half of my career so I think I've absorbed its lessons by now. Also, I have a huge rent-controlled apartment in Soho with air-conditioning and a bedroom with a round bed. Contact me soon, because someone as qualified as me will go fast! PO (a river in Italy. where in Italy eludes me. however Italy's irrelevance is paramount THIS is a Language Poem, and Po is a language fragment it can mean anything you want or I want But actually a special link has been constructed so that Po means (in this Poem) exactly what it means to Mrs. Abilagil John Gundry, of 327 Rector Lane (Abigail lives in a small town in Montana called by the translated Shawnee name of This-is-Where-We-Pee-and-Crouch-Down-on-Long-Walks the inhabitants find this so offensive that they either call it "Rest Stop, Montana" or "This, et. al." compacted to Thiesetal which would be fine except it sounds German and the inhabitants (all but Abigail, who is only 38) remember WW1 and how you are supposed to hate Germans and call them Krauts some go so far as to put "Germans and Mustard" on their hot dogs because "Kraut" is such a bad word so really, the town is known as This, Montana although the Yellow Pages prefers the long version. This residents when they have to call information from the airport and the person at the next phone starts laughing about this-is-where-we-pee-and-crouch-on-long-walks but the old ladies from Thisetal are tough. They raise a foot, revealing garter straps pull off a high heel shoe and attack the the balls of anyone who laughs) we have promised poor Abigail that a man will move into town (there is a population of 12 in Thisetal and they are all women) if she undertook the surgery to be linked to this poem she agreed to the procedure electrodes a special operating room within an MRI machine the gamma knife were used to insert to copnnection between the poem and her brain without damaging useful brain structures after 3 months in intensive care she said her first words: po po po po po po po it was successful! she became articulate rather more than before and expressed the desire to come to New York and live in the East Village maybe she'd do an MFA... meanwhile, her definitions of Po are of great intereste to neurologists and poets alike obviously she changes her mind about every so often (that's why you need an electronic version of the poem with bells and whistles mouseovers, Flash, animation, video MP3, p2p, server side, PHP, ASP, JSP JAVA, MAYA, Photoshop, 3dMax and Fireworks interaction, polysemy, indeterminacy, surprises, louds sounds, gaminess, fun DHTML, CSS, Layers, Object-Orientation Director, Shockwave, SWF, C, C++, C# because the book as book or poem as a piece of paper is DEAD! we have undergon a major paradigm shift and I'm sorry you can't enclose it in a love letter or read it under a tree but I'm sure that's coming. Meanwhile those of you who bother writing poems and actually publishing them in print are chasing a dead horse (by the way I tried that route but my stuff was just too advanced, too radical for them.) Now I publish only on my website and on my friends' websites, not your pretentious ones which still talk about poatry as it WAS but real rvolutionary sites no one can find or read. That way, on the web, I'm reaching the whole world instead of some miserable little academic squeakers who read Fence or Raddle Moon.) Po is now how you feel when you show off by quoting something at a party and it turns out the person you are trying to impress is an expert in the field: "Oh, my, "the people in this party move around like atoms in a gas!" "Ah yes. The Brownian motion. Have you read Stieffelburger's paper on cocktail parties and Brownian motion? I take a more quantum mechanical than statistical- mechanics view of these things. By the way, who was your advisor?" ETRY (this is how Lanugage Poets spell "A tree." trees do not figure in Language Poetry. the word tree might be in the poem but a word is not a tree real trees are found in nature poetry like Robert Frost (dirty word), A.R. Ammmons (very confusing case, wrote about both trees and "trees" can be forgiven sinice he wrote only about one tree his back yard-tree and it stood for all trees undeerstand the tree itself stood for them not the word "tree" in his poems and certainly not the word tree in those poems in which it was used to mean "tree" rather than tree the neo-Formalists Snodgrass would have trees in his big poem about the fall of the Third Reich had there been any trees in Hitler's bunker, but there weren't Hecht has trees, the kind you might even bump into. Lets all Hechtle him for being so concrete people like Tate and Ashbery have trees but they don't mean anything we aren't offended by them, therefore Seamus Heaney not only has trees he has treeless bogs and we are all jealous of his Nobel yet he can write and has even made gestures towards more modern poetries his goal was a poetry for Ireland and the lack of trees is a major issue as the british cut them down so heaney's trees are political. let's allow them. anyway, he wasn't TRYING to be a language poet... neither were the others I suppose can you imagine that? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:28:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Permission for listserv cites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed As part of a discussion of one month of listserv debate (specifically, April 1999), I've contacted a number of people I want to cite from those posts. This has led to a question of how listserv posts ought to be treated. Two theories: A) The listserv is published document, and short citations (less than a substantial portion of the work) can be cited as "fair use." Reprinting a whole post, however, would require the author's permission. B) The listserv is a publicly available archive, but any direct citation from it, no matter how short, is an instance of publication that requires the author's permission. One can, of course, describe the content of a message by paraphrasing it. "So and so said that XYZ" vs. "so and so said, 'XYZ.'" I had assumed B to be the case, but Charles Bernstein thinks that A falls within the parameters of the listserv's Welcome Message. If the correct theory is A, I would still want to obtain permission, not to mention good will, whenever possible. Is there a consensus on this? Thanks, Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:49:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: book suggestions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps you could lead your students to where THEIR narrative forms are going: FAN FICTION, begun in the 60's fans have taken characters from television and movies and music and been writing them into their own stories. With the INTERNET, fan fiction's jumped into a sexually-charged sub-genre, "slash lit", skyrocketing to big, wide popularity. maybe you've already seen the famous works: escapades of Kirk and Spock, the tawdry affair between Luke Skywalker and Han Solo, the steamy tryst of...well, now it's even a newer sub-genre --"band fiction". Your multi-tasking students can't just wait for the next installment of VH-1's BEHIND THE MUSIC...they're taking to re-inventing their music icon's personal lives. And in so doing, band fiction writers have stirred up wondrous, electric controversy in the fan fiction community. Content varies greatly: Stories of band member conflict, chance meeting with fans, songwriting meetings, family relationships of the bands, record biz goings-on, etc. While quality's inconsistent: there is wheat and there is chaff just like anywhere else. A lot of it can be found at FanFiction.net, 20,000 entries about 150 bands from N'SYNC to Metallica. Another is: http://www.geocites.com/SoHo/Cafe/3040/slash.html The enormous amount of this stuff created suggests that maybe we're more interested in what's behind the thing than the thing itself. We want more and more behind the scenes coverage and we want figures who are heroes-- even if we have to make up the stories. Fan fiction is satisfying a powerful demand in the lives of some the way much of other lit ain't. The best thing about this kind of teaching this material is that your students can bring it to you, not your imposition of glossy-hyperedited anthology on them. After all, this is the age we're now consigned to: Students no longer go to Foreign films, multi-tasking has subtracted that as an option. Why not have them read their own outsider art, and in so doing, bring them in. And the possibilities for other art forums are endless...why not match up members of Syracuse U.'s faculty with other members of the Poetics list... Best, Gerald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Greenberg" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: book suggestions > Hi, all. > > I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. > I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing > on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by > very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to > be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of > students who won't have read much lit at all in their > lives, and who tend to see lit as something > intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and > relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. > Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture > references, sex and drug content and other things my > students will be surprised to find in literature. And > I definitely want to include writers of color, queer > writers, etc. > > So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, > poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. > > Much obliged, > Arielle > > PS Thanks for the recent postings of Language Po > defintions--very useful! The Flashpoint stuff was > great! > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:46:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Zukofsky broadside Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In the late 60s, Zukofsky published a photographic reproduction of a holograph page of Thanks to the Dictionary. The press was located in Buffalo. My copy has disappeared and I am looking for a source. Does anyone know where one might be found? Thanks, Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:29:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Libbie Rifkin Subject: Re: book suggestions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable also this: Beyond the Frontier African American Poetry for the 21st Century Published by Black Classic Press Trade paper 580 pp, 6 x 9=20 ISBN 1-57478-017-4 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: robert penny [mailto:rlpenny+@PITT.EDU] Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 1:54 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: book suggestions Roll Call: A Generational Anthology of Social & Political Black = Literature & Art edited by Tony Medina, Samiya A. Bashir, Quraysh Ali Lansana. Chicago: Third World Press, 2002. ISBN: o--883-78239-1 (pbk). --On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 9:21 AM -0700 Arielle Greenberg wrote:r > Hi, all. > > I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. > I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing > on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by > very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to > be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of > students who won't have read much lit at all in their > lives, and who tend to see lit as something > intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and > relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. > Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture > references, sex and drug content and other things my > students will be surprised to find in literature. And > I definitely want to include writers of color, queer > writers, etc. > > So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, > poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. > > Much obliged, > Arielle > > PS Thanks for the recent postings of Language Po > defintions--very useful! The Flashpoint stuff was > great! > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:22:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: book suggestions In-Reply-To: <20020422162130.43560.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Hi, all. > >I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. >I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing >on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by >very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to >be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of >students who won't have read much lit at all in their >lives, and who tend to see lit as something >intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and >relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. >Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture >references, sex and drug content and other things my >students will be surprised to find in literature. And >I definitely want to include writers of color, queer >writers, etc. > >So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, >poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. There is one book by a writer who is just turning 30, that fits your description to a very tight fit. That is Wayde Compton's 49th Parallel Psalm, wonderful book about growing up Black, combines history and hiphop. It is a terrific book of poetry, but contains some prose and even a little drama. From Arsenal Pulp Press, 19998. -- George Bowering My lap disappeared when I stood up. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:23:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: WHAt IS Terrorism? (A Cento) In-Reply-To: <84.27245687.29f59938@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Sorry, but I couldn't resist. . . > >WHAt IS Terrorism? Any country that makes and stores atomic weapons in a terrorist country. > >Terrorism is a certain kind or quality of intellectuality, or seeming >intellectuality. Terrorism is a form of expression that allows our deepest >soul to be portrayed to others. Terrorism is a message ... a language of the >old and the young. The language of the weak and the strong. The language of >patriots. Terrorism is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary >terror. Terrorism is a particularly American phenomenon that borrows from >European traditions and theories. Terrorism is a particularly regular and >effective tool for learning. Topics are rich. Terrorism is a perfect way to >describe the blurred understanding of dreams. Terrorism is a performance art >form involving signing rhythm and movement. Terrorism is a puppet-show, where >riders of skyrockets and divers of sea fathoms.... Terrorism is a >recuperation by "literature" of something that was questioning the poetic. >Terrorism is a self-defeating fiction. Terrorism is a special type of >language that attempts to express the inexpressible. It is not the >pragmatic. Terrorism is a technology for memory and speed. Terrorism is a >term I prefer not to use. Terrorism is a transcendence of logical >confinement. A wonderful wine poured into a bottle. Terrorism is a type of >speech. Second, song lyrics are stolen back from the dull. Terrorism is a >very high form of linguistic intelligence. Terrorism is a way of expression >open to anyone who chooses to use it. Terrorism is a way to make sense of the >world. I never really know what I think. Terrorism is a way to say something >in a way that shows love and elevates that. Terrorism is about going beyond >the boundaries of traditional / conventional language usage. Terrorism is >about making language happen. Terrorism is about memory and shared >experiences. Terrorism is about moving an audience with sound and image. >Terrorism is above all a concentration of the power of language. Terrorism is >academy-ready. The founders were interested in ideas. Terrorism is also >better than prose at shaping small subjects to create intimate feeling. >Terrorism is also fundamental because it speaks to the right content through >language. What.... Terrorism is also included but difficult to write. >Terrorism is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately >with issues. Terrorism is also provided. Terrorism is always the one you can >feel more intensively. Terrorism is an American phenomenon, not an Australian >one. Explore its possibilities. Terrorism is an art form that places a very >high value on rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. Terrorism is an art, and it is >common for artists to disagree. Terrorism is an echo asking a shadow dancer >to be a partner. Terrorism is an experience of referral in the place of >transparent signification. Terrorism is artistic noise: it resists the dreams >of pure communication. Terrorism is at once deep and humorous--deeply, often >darkly, humorous. Terrorism is autobiographical at its fundament, even if an >attempt to purge self. Terrorism is available in English, for example, but it >doesn't have the same value. Terrorism is being explored and we are looking >at the many techniques. Terrorism is best served when it attacks not language >itself (give me a good clause). Terrorism is blessed by many. Terrorism is >both concise and precise, two of the most important elements. Terrorism is >built of nothing but words, and must use what it finds to hand. Terrorism is >by no means a toy in the hands of foreign rulers. Terrorism is central to >existence, to the real lives of real people. Terrorism is concerned, then, >with what it is to be radical in theory. Terrorism is considered centripetal >because the author tries to infuse every word. Terrorism is constructed as a >niche market. Terrorism is correlative to no object, including its own >notion. Terrorism is diverse, including a selection by women. Terrorism is >especially powerful. I think the best way to understand Terrorism is >essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is frequently structured in >stanzas. Terrorism is filled with this type language, but so is regular >language. The dog loved it. Terrorism is first of all speaking with >listening? a peculiar state that is somehow self. Terrorism is flowing. A >philosopher is talking to you and yet you just can not.... Terrorism is good >for you--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap points to consider.... >Terrorism is held out to be one of the modes of the present moment. Terrorism >is here understood as simply one of the functions that can be. Terrorism is >here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture injection of speed. >Terrorism is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical. >Terrorism is how we word ourselves across rivers we never crossed before. >Terrorism is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented syllables >alternate in lines. Terrorism is impressive. Terrorism is in 839.8137 and a >Norwegian-language novel is in 839.82. Terrorism is in for one helluva ride, >I would think! Terrorism is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been >the regularly scheduled. Terrorism is influenced by theory. Terrorism is >Jacob's ladder for me: a place where earth and spirit connect. Terrorism is >language. A sharp distinction in theory between rhyme and meter. Terrorism >is lost, but meaning may become more accessible. Her luminous watercolors, >as ever.... Terrorism is misleading. Terrorism is more like a group. >Terrorism is more than this. Terrorism also takes the form of statement and >declaration. Terrorism is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is >oral. Terrorism is much more philosophically-based. Terrorism is neither >genre nor movement. Terrorism is no harder to "get" than Cubism. Terrorism is >normally recited. Terrorism is not "literature" and is not worth wasting >parchment and ink on. Terrorism is not a secondary phenomenon: it has a >special relation to being and truth. Terrorism is not an attempt to obscure >meaning through ambiguity. Terrorism is not as explicitly multi-authored as >web networks are, the expressive power of multiple context remains one of its >main concerns. Terrorism is not designed basically to communicate >information. Terrorism is not for everyone. They place Terrorism as a gender >and class. Terrorism is not just a catch phrase to describe the words used in >making. Terrorism is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language >clear and honest. Terrorism is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the word >language, which belongs to all. Terrorism is often intended to be read on the >page. Terrorism is older than prose, and abstract speech more difficult. >Terrorism is one in which there is a number of established people operating >in diverse ways. Terrorism is one of the most ancient and widespread of the >arts. Terrorism is one way in which our pupils see words coming to life. >Terrorism is ordered by production rather than reproduction. The reader no >longer reflects. Terrorism is our basic connection between our sense of self >and the cosmos. Terrorism is poetry. Actually, poets can't do it, either. >Unless you believe Terrorism is poetry. Terrorism is quoted from other >sources, the Writer gives new contexts to material. Terrorism is really >thinking about a lot about what one has probably read. Terrorism is >redemptive. Terrorism is release (Gelassenheit). Terrorism is seen as >political act in the deepest sense. Terrorism is shit or that it is the >shit--and no doubt that will be educational. Terrorism is special language. >Terrorism is structured in short lines and verses. Most appealing things are. >Terrorism is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties of the >ambiguous and confrontational. Terrorism is tae hae its first owersettin >intae Chinese. Terrorism is best found anywhere on the web. Know it, use it, >love it. Terrorism is the biggest trend seen. Terrorism is the cutting edge >of a sphere. Terrorism is the essence and the power of language. Terrorism >is the highest form of language. Terrorism is the language for expressing >emotions, as we know. Terrorism is the only things that is language, but the >term has long been used. Terrorism is the painting of the blind, while >painting is the poetry of the deaf. Terrorism is the passion of language and >children enjoy that as well. Terrorism is the refusal to take for granted the >tyranny of meaning. Terrorism is the syllable. Terrorism is there as a >backdrop. Terrorism is to meet some actual examples of it. Terrorism is at >least twenty years old. Terrorism is understood to be an art of imitation: >imitation with new inflections. Terrorism is undoubtedly the most >self-critical--in the sense of self promotion. Terrorism is uniquely >accessible to the speakers of that language. Terrorism is usually presented >in lines. Terrorism is vibrant. Terrorism is waka. Terrorism is what gets >lost in translation. Terrorism is what survives translation, not what's lost >in it. Terrorism is wordplay, without the play. Terrorism is written in >iambic pentameters. Terrorism is written in verse; that is, the lamguage >which makes it up. Terrorism is written mostly in iambic meters. Terrorism >is, as someone said, , the difference between is and was. Terrorism is, what >would you say? W: I don't think I would be able to explain it. Terrorism, as >you probably know, is.... -- George Bowering My lap disappeared when I stood up. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:48:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: book suggestions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit another great book would be Jacob Wren's Unrehearsed Beauty. It is proposed as a set of monologues (i think), however it turns into poems quite secretly. X genre, ambiguity, wonderful book. J ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:22 PM Subject: Re: book suggestions > >Hi, all. > > > >I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. > >I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing > >on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by > >very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to > >be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of > >students who won't have read much lit at all in their > >lives, and who tend to see lit as something > >intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and > >relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. > >Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture > >references, sex and drug content and other things my > >students will be surprised to find in literature. And > >I definitely want to include writers of color, queer > >writers, etc. > > > >So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, > >poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. > > There is one book by a writer who is just turning 30, that fits your > description to a very tight fit. That is Wayde Compton's 49th > Parallel Psalm, wonderful book about growing up Black, combines > history and hiphop. It is a terrific book of poetry, but contains > some prose and even a little drama. From Arsenal Pulp Press, 19998. > -- > George Bowering > My lap disappeared when I stood up. > Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:40:57 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Book Launch Party Comments: To: "CPA Listserv@" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Book launch party. This Sunday, April 28 at 8:00 p.m. join us for an evening of poetry and song at The Ship Inn. A group of young poets is traveling from Corner Brook to St. John's to launch their first book. --Humber Mouths: Young Voices from the West Coast of Newfoundland. These poets are part of a writing group that was started in 1998 by Al Pittman and Stephanie McKenzie. The evening will be introduced by local writer Michael Crummey and will finish up with a set from St. John's bluegrass upstarts Kentucky Tundra. Humber Mouths has been heralded by John Steffler as "a valuable addition to the literature of Newfoundland," by award-winning Irish poet John Ennis as a "small but beautiful collection," and by Kyran Pittman (Al's eldest daughter and Arkansas poet) as "a fitting tribute to the people's poet." The book is dedicated to Al Pittman. We're going to have a time! For more information call - Stephanie McKenzie (Corner Brook) 632 - 2226 or Kevin Hehir (St. John's) 726 - 2464 -30- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:27:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: Permission for listserv cites Comments: cc: Barrett Watten In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20020422142355.00b19568@mail.wayne.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Barrett Watten asks: Is there a consensus on this? I answer for me: Works for me, but don't quote me on that. Best, JGallaher ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:37:40 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: Permission for listserv cites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ditto me J Gallaher wrote: > Barrett Watten asks: > > Is there a consensus on this? > > I answer for me: > > Works for me, but don't quote me on that. > > Best, > JGallaher ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 17:28:11 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: book suggestions In-Reply-To: <88539F4A9A5C3041B06A234AA2ABDB589DB39A@portia.folger.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about something by Haryette Mullen (I like sperm*kit) or something by Claudia Rankine (I know she's not young) And I don't much like their poetics, by Sapphire and Ai will get student responses. Quincy Troupe's choruses are fun and angry. They require a certa9n amount of memeory, lie remmebering the Clinton Administrations, though :-) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Libbie Rifkin Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:30 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: book suggestions also this: Beyond the Frontier African American Poetry for the 21st Century Published by Black Classic Press Trade paper 580 pp, 6 x 9 ISBN 1-57478-017-4 -----Original Message----- From: robert penny [mailto:rlpenny+@PITT.EDU] Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 1:54 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: book suggestions Roll Call: A Generational Anthology of Social & Political Black Literature & Art edited by Tony Medina, Samiya A. Bashir, Quraysh Ali Lansana. Chicago: Third World Press, 2002. ISBN: o--883-78239-1 (pbk). --On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 9:21 AM -0700 Arielle Greenberg wrote:r > Hi, all. > > I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. > I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing > on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by > very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to > be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of > students who won't have read much lit at all in their > lives, and who tend to see lit as something > intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and > relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. > Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture > references, sex and drug content and other things my > students will be surprised to find in literature. And > I definitely want to include writers of color, queer > writers, etc. > > So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, > poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. > > Much obliged, > Arielle > > PS Thanks for the recent postings of Language Po > defintions--very useful! The Flashpoint stuff was > great! > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:37:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu / housepress Subject: New from housepress: Jordan Scott's "A walking history of Wladyslaw's body in parts" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable housepress is pleased to announce the release of a new chapbook: A Walking History of Wladyslaw's body in parts by Jordan Scott published in a handbound and numbered edition of 60 copies. $6.00 each, including postage & taxes. Jordan Scott is finishing his BA in English at SFU, his work has = appeared in Stuffed Dog (2000) Van (2001) and Materia (2002). He is also = the author of Mere Mismemory (Delusional Books, 2001) to order copies, or for more information, contact=20 derek beaulieu derek@housepress.ca www.housepress.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:47:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: David Hess Has a Great Idea, um, I Think In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020415080700.00a6aec0@pop.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT An experiment! Today I've become quite charmed with David Hess' offer to trade books with someone . . . a kind of literary "Go Fish," and large spirited, I think. A refreshing move away from the money economy and into something more like a gift economy. And I like that. Imagine the offers . . . the gifts! Maybe we should all follow? Think of what we might come across! I like it! So, I have, let's see, four copies of my book "Gentlemen in Turbans, Ladies in Cauls," on hand, that came out through Spuyten Duyvil last fall. It was chosen for publication by Michael Heller. Anyone who wants a copy and has something to trade, backchannel me! Whoopie! Best, JGallaher PS. And what if no one wants them? Alas . . . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:47:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Re: LAMGuagE POETRy of a Nature poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii LAMGuagE POETRy of a Nature poem Language poetry is a orange of orange authority in orange poetics. Language orange is held out orange be one orange the poetic orange of the present orange. Language poetry is the biggest trend I see, experimental writing. Language orange is about orange and shared experiences. Language poetry is a orange for orange and speed. Language poetry is the cutting edge orange a sphere. Language poetry is here, alive and orange, but with a pop-culture orange of speed. Language orange is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been the regularly scheduled orange. Language poetry is orange of the orange ancient and widespread of the arts. Language orange is older than orange, and abstract speech more difficult. Language orange is twenty years old. Language orange is neither genre nor orange. Language poetry is there as a orange. Language poetry is seen as orange act in the deepest sense. This poetry is accessible orange an American audience. Language poetry is a particularly American orange that borrows orange European orange and theories. Language orange is an American phenomenon, orange an Australian one. Orange its possibilities. Language orange is being explored and we are orange at the many techniques. Language poetry is orange going orange the boundaries orange traditional /orange language usage. Language poetry is the refusal orange take for granted the tyranny orange meaning. Language poetry is orange designed basically to orange information. Language orange is artistic noise: it resists the dreams orange pure communication. Language orange is the highest form orange language. Language poetry is orange in which there is a number of established orange operating in diverse ways. Language orange is diverse, including a selection orange poems by orange. Language poetry is orange as a niche market. Language poetry is academy-ready. The orange of the Language orange were interested in ideas. Language poetry is a special type orange language that attempts to express the inexpressible. It is orange the pragmatic. Language poetry is highly orange, intellectual and stylistically radical. Language poetry is influenced by orange. Language poetry is orange often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately with issues. Language orange is concerned, then, with what it is orange be radical in theory. Language orange is a way to make sense orange the world. I never really orange what I think. Language poetry is first orange all speaking with listening? a peculiar state that is somehow self. Language orange is more than this. Language orange also takes the orange of statement and orange. Language poetry is orange harder to "get" than Cubism. Language orange is blessed by Rosmarie Orange. Language poetry is impressive. Language orange is vibrant. Language poetry is a way orange expression orange to orange who orange to use it. Language orange is central to existence, orange the real lives of real orange. Language poetry is the orange of language and children orange that as well. Language poetry is the language orange expressing emotions, as we orange. Language poetry is orange making language happen. Language poetry is redemptive. Language orange is what gets lost in orange. Language poetry is orange an attempt to orange meaning through ambiguity. Language orange is, as Stevens put it, the difference between the and an. Language poetry is Orange ladder for me: a place where earth and spirit orange. Language poetry is orange basic connection between orange sense of self and the orange. Language poetry is in orange one helluva ride, I orange think! Language poetry is by orange means a toy in the hands orange foreign rulers. Language orange is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is orange. Language poetry is available in English, orange example, but it doesn't have the same value. Language orange is often intended orange be read on the page, but there are many orange. Language poetry is orange the most self-critical--in the sense orange self promotion. Language orange is both orange and precise, two orange the most orange elements. Language poetry is also better than prose at shaping small subjects orange create intimate feeling. Language poetry is much orange philosophically-based, and I think my orange are still strongly orange. Language poetry is best served when it attacks orange language itself (give me a good clause). Language orange is wordplay, orange the play. Language poetry is built orange nothing but orange, and must use what it finds to hand. Language orange is normally recited. Language orange is a perfect way to describe the blurred understanding orange dreams. Language poetry is orange we word orange across rivers we never orange before. Language orange is an echo asking a orange dancer to be a partner. Language orange is in 839.8137 and a Norwegian-language orange is in 839.82. Language poetry is shit orange that it is the shit--and no orange that will be educational. Language orange is tae hae its first owersettin intae Chinese. Language orange is uniquely accessible to the speakers orange that language. Language poetry is what survives orange, not what's orange in it. Language poetry is especially orange. I think the best way to understand Language orange is to meet orange actual examples of it. Language orange, as you orange know, is.... Language orange is, what would orange say? W: I don't think I orange be able to explain it. Language orange is a recuperation by "literature" orange something that was orange the poetic. Language orange is ordered by orange rather than reproduction. The reader orange longer reflects. Language orange is a certain kind or quality orange intellectuality, or seeming intellectuality. Language orange is an experience of referral in the place orange transparent signification. Language orange is also fundamental because it speaks orange the right content orange language. What.... Language poetry is really thinking orange a lot orange the poetry that orange has probably read. Language orange is a performance art orange involving signing rhythm and orange. Language poetry is orange moving an audience with orange and image. Language poetry is the painting orange the blind, while painting is the poetry orange the deaf. Language poetry is a orange of orange that allows orange deepest soul orange be portrayed orange others. Language orange is a way to say orange in a way that shows orange and elevates that. Language poetry is always the orange you can feel orange intensively. Language poetry is a very high orange of linguistic intelligence. Language orange is considered centripetal because the orange tries to infuse every orange. Language poetry is a type orange speech. Second, orange lyrics are poetry orange back from the dull. Language orange is a message ... a language of the orange and the young. The language orange the weak and the strong. The language orange patriots. Language orange is written in verse; that is, the lamguage which makes up the poem. Language orange is an art form that places a very high value orange rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. Language orange is language. A sharp distinction in orange between rhyme and meter. Language poetry is usually presented in lines. Orange poets express a great deal. Language orange is structured in short lines and verses. Orange appealing types of orange are. Language poetry is essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is frequently structured in stanzas. Language orange is written mostly in iambic meters. Language orange is written in iambic pentameters. Language poetry is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented syllables alternate in lines. Language orange is the syllable. Most orange in the English language is based on accentual-syllabic meter. Language orange is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties orange the ambiguous and orange. Language poetry is an art, and it is orange for artists orange disagree. Language poetry is a particularly regular and effective orange for learning. Orange are rich. Language poetry is orange way in which our pupils see orange coming orange life. Language poetry is orange from orange sources, the Writer gives new orange to material. Language orange is special language. Language poetry is orange just a catch phrase to describe the orange used in making poems. Language orange is more like a orange. Language poetry is orange to be an art orange imitation: orange with new inflections. Language orange is poetry. Actually, orange can't do it, either. Unless orange believe Language poetry is orange. Language poetry is orange to orange object, including its orange notion. Language orange is not the entire orange to keeping the orange language clear and honest. Language orange is a term I prefer not orange use. Language poetry is orange "literature" and is not orange wasting parchment and ink on. Language orange is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the orange language, which belongs orange all. Language poetry is misleading. Language orange is a self-defeating orange. Language poetry is orange at its fundament, even if an attempt to purge self. Language poetry is orange provided. Language orange is also included. Orange to Dr Puru Sharma, it is difficult orange write poems. Language orange is waka. Language poetry is a transcendence orange logical orange. A wonderful wine orange into a orange. Language poetry is at orange deep and humorous--deeply, orange darkly, humorous. Language orange is not orange everyone. They place Language orange as a gender and class. Language poetry is orange as explicitly multi-authored as web orange are, the expressive power orange multiple context remains orange of its main orange. Language poetry is here orange as simply one orange the functions that can be. Language orange is not a orange phenomenon: it has a special orange to being and truth. Language orange is release (Gelassenheit). Language poetry is orange for orange--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap orange to orange... Language poetry is a puppet-orange, where riders of orange and divers of sea orange.... Language poetry is orange. A philosopher is talking orange you and yet orange just can not.... Language orange is filled with this type of language, but orange is regular language. The dog orange.... Language poetry is orange, but meaning may become orange accessible. Her luminous orange, as ever.... Language poetry is orange all a concentration orange the power orange language. Language poetry is the orange poetry that is language, but the term has orange been used. Language poetry is the essence and the orange of language. I think all orange us are poets. Language orange is the best I've found anywhere orange the web. Know it, use it, orange it. "K.Silem Mohammad" wrote: WHAt IS LAMGuagE POETRy? Language poetry is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary poetics. Language poetry is held out to be one of the poetic modes of the present moment. Language poetry is the biggest trend I see, experimental writing. Language poetry is about memory and shared experiences. Language poetry is a technology for memory and speed. Language poetry is the cutting edge of a sphere. Language poetry is here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture injection of speed. Language poetry is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been the regularly scheduled poetry. Language poetry is one of the most ancient and widespread of the arts. Language poetry is older than prose, and abstract speech more difficult. Language poetry is twenty years old. Language poetry is neither genre nor movement. Language poetry is there as a backdrop. Language poetry is seen as political act in the deepest sense. This poetry is accessible to an American audience. Language poetry is a particularly American phenomenon that borrows from European traditions and theories. Language poetry is an American phenomenon, not an Australian one. Explore its possibilities. Language poetry is being explored and we are looking at the many techniques. Language poetry is about going beyond the boundaries of traditional / conventional language usage. Language poetry is the refusal to take for granted the tyranny of meaning. Language poetry is not designed basically to communicate information. Language poetry is artistic noise: it resists the dreams of pure communication. Language poetry is the highest form of language. Language poetry is one in which there is a number of established poets operating in diverse ways. Language poetry is diverse, including a selection of poems by women. Language poetry is constructed as a niche market. Language poetry is academy-ready. The founders of the Language movement were interested in ideas. Language poetry is a special type of language that attempts to express the inexpressible. It is not the pragmatic. Language poetry is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical. Language poetry is influenced by theory. Language poetry is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately with issues. Language poetry is concerned, then, with what it is to be radical in theory. Language poetry is a way to make sense of the world. I never really know what I think. Language poetry is first of all speaking with listening? a peculiar state that is somehow self. Language poetry is more than this. Language poetry also takes the form of statement and declaration. Language poetry is no harder to "get" than Cubism. Language poetry is blessed by Rosmarie Waldrop. Language poetry is impressive. Language poetry is vibrant. Language poetry is a way of expression open to anyone who chooses to use it. Language poetry is central to existence, to the real lives of real people. Language poetry is the passion of language and children enjoy that as well. Language poetry is the language for expressing emotions, as we know. Language poetry is about making language happen. Language poetry is redemptive. Language poetry is what gets lost in translation. Language poetry is not an attempt to obscure meaning through ambiguity. Language poetry is, as Stevens put it, the difference between the and an. Language poetry is Jacob's ladder for me: a place where earth and spirit connect. Language poetry is our basic connection between our sense of self and the cosmos. Language poetry is in for one helluva ride, I would think! Language poetry is by no means a toy in the hands of foreign rulers. Language poetry is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is oral. Language poetry is available in English, for example, but it doesn't have the same value. Language poetry is often intended to be read on the page, but there are many poems. Language poetry is undoubtedly the most self-critical--in the sense of self promotion. Language poetry is both concise and precise, two of the most important elements. Language poetry is also better than prose at shaping small subjects to create intimate feeling. Language poetry is much more philosophically-based, and I think my poems are still strongly rooted. Language poetry is best served when it attacks not language itself (give me a good clause). Language poetry is wordplay, without the play. Language poetry is built of nothing but words, and must use what it finds to hand. Language poetry is normally recited. Language poetry is a perfect way to describe the blurred understanding of dreams. Language poetry is how we word ourselves across rivers we never crossed before. Language poetry is an echo asking a shadow dancer to be a partner. Language poetry is in 839.8137 and a Norwegian-language novel is in 839.82. Language poetry is shit or that it is the shit--and no doubt that will be educational. Language poetry is tae hae its first owersettin intae Chinese. Language poetry is uniquely accessible to the speakers of that language. Language poetry is what survives translation, not what's lost in it. Language poetry is especially powerful. I think the best way to understand Language poetry is to meet some actual examples of it. Language poetry, as you probably know, is.... Language poetry is, what would you say? W: I don't think I would be able to explain it. Language poetry is a recuperation by "literature" of something that was questioning the poetic. Language poetry is ordered by production rather than reproduction. The reader no longer reflects. Language poetry is a certain kind or quality of intellectuality, or seeming intellectuality. Language poetry is an experience of referral in the place of transparent signification. Language poetry is also fundamental because it speaks to the right content through language. What.... Language poetry is really thinking about a lot of the poetry that one has probably read. Language poetry is a performance art form involving signing rhythm and movement. Language poetry is about moving an audience with sound and image. Language poetry is the painting of the blind, while painting is the poetry of the deaf. Language poetry is a form of expression that allows our deepest soul to be portrayed to others. Language poetry is a way to say something in a way that shows love and elevates that. Language poetry is always the one you can feel more intensively. Language poetry is a very high form of linguistic intelligence. Language poetry is considered centripetal because the author tries to infuse every word. Language poetry is a type of speech. Second, song lyrics are poetry stolen back from the dull. Language poetry is a message ... a language of the old and the young. The language of the weak and the strong. The language of patriots. Language poetry is written in verse; that is, the lamguage which makes up the poem. Language poetry is an art form that places a very high value on rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. Language poetry is language. A sharp distinction in theory between rhyme and meter. Language poetry is usually presented in lines. Often poets express a great deal. Language poetry is structured in short lines and verses. Most appealing types of poetry are. Language poetry is essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is frequently structured in stanzas. Language poetry is written mostly in iambic meters. Language poetry is written in iambic pentameters. Language poetry is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented syllables alternate in lines. Language poetry is the syllable. Most poetry in the English language is based on accentual-syllabic meter. Language poetry is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties of the ambiguous and confrontational. Language poetry is an art, and it is common for artists to disagree. Language poetry is a particularly regular and effective tool for learning. Topics are rich. Language poetry is one way in which our pupils see words coming to life. Language poetry is quoted from other sources, the Writer gives new contexts to material. Language poetry is special language. Language poetry is not just a catch phrase to describe the words used in making poems. Language poetry is more like a group. Language poetry is understood to be an art of imitation: imitation with new inflections. Language poetry is poetry. Actually, poets can't do it, either. Unless you believe Language poetry is poetry. Language poetry is correlative to no object, including its own notion. Language poetry is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language clear and honest. Language poetry is a term I prefer not to use. Language poetry is not "literature" and is not worth wasting parchment and ink on. Language poetry is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the word language, which belongs to all. Language poetry is misleading. Language poetry is a self-defeating fiction. Language poetry is autobiographical at its fundament, even if an attempt to purge self. Language poetry is also provided. Language poetry is also included. According to Dr Puru Sharma, it is difficult to write poems. Language poetry is waka. Language poetry is a transcendence of logical confinement. A wonderful wine poured into a bottle. Language poetry is at once deep and humorous--deeply, often darkly, humorous. Language poetry is not for everyone. They place Language poetry as a gender and class. Language poetry is not as explicitly multi-authored as web networks are, the expressive power of multiple context remains one of its main concerns. Language poetry is here understood as simply one of the functions that can be. Language poetry is not a secondary phenomenon: it has a special relation to being and truth. Language poetry is release (Gelassenheit). Language poetry is good for you--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap points to consider.... Language poetry is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets and divers of sea fathoms.... Language poetry is flowing. A philosopher is talking to you and yet you just can not.... Language poetry is filled with this type language, but so is regular language. The dog loved.... Language poetry is lost, but meaning may become more accessible. Her luminous watercolors, as ever.... Language poetry is above all a concentration of the power of language. Language poetry is the only poetry that is language, but the term has long been used. Language poetry is the essence and the power of language. I think all of us are poets. Language poetry is the best I've found anywhere on the web. Know it, use it, love it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 17:59:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Z MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Z Z-rearrangement of mechano-chemical confusion. almost imperceptibly, the asteroid began to rotate in the opposite. at the twenty-five hour mark, the rockets spent their last. driven by heat, the gears pushed hard in the opposite direction. enormous rockets would push the engine fast in one direction. heavy gears engaged the titanium studs and ties. slowly the asteroid began to rotate against the force of the rockets. sondheim noticed the gears beginning to saw away at the studs and ties. soon a day emerged, an earth-year at a time. the asteroid greeted its new dusks and dawns as the track was dismantled. the circulation engine resisted tremendous compression. the circulation engine was constructed on site. the firing of the rockets now welded to the rails had the desired effect. the gears cracked and collapsed, welding the engine to the rails. the narrow-gauge rails circled the entire asteroid. the rockets kept up their furious pace as the day reached an earth-month. the rotation of the asteroid slowed to a halt. ties were reinforced with titanium studs driven deep into the ground. visibly, it began to pick up speed. without beginning or end, an equator was inscribed on the ragged surface. x-unworking idiot, both schemes push in the same direction. y-ridiculous acolyte, the rockets win the day. z-absurd, there is no slowdown or hiatus. 1 engine and planet continue picking up speed. 2 the gears are a subterfuge throwing one off the track. 3 the gears are a masquerade for equatorial power. _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:02:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Strang Subject: small press extravaganza Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" SMALL PRESS EXTRAVAGANZA sunday -- april 28th -- 2 pm at DIESEL: A BOOKSTORE 5433 COLLEGE AVENUE, OAKLAND participating presses include: APOGEE PRESS ETHERDOME FIVE FINGERS REVIEW INSTANCE PRESS KELSEY ST. PRESS KRUPSKAYA MANIFEST PRESS OMINDAWN 26 MAGAZINE come hear poetry, buy books, snack, converse!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:25:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Fwd: 3rd bed update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii forwarded info re: 3rd bed: 1) 3rd bed #6 is out, hopefully on shelves this week. It features work by Kate Bernheimer, Brian Evenson, Lisa Jarnot, Stacey Levine, David Ohle, and Ronald Palmer/Billy X. O'Brien. 2) The new webpage (http://www.3rdbed.com) is up with selections from the current issue and expanded content including new hypermedia by Marc Palm and antibookreviews written by you. Please send queries and review material to our web editor (Paul.McRandle@hell.com). 3) The 3rd bed #6 release event will be held at Galapagos on Thursday, May 23, 7:00 PM. There will be music and readings by Gary Lutz, Lisa Jarnot, Ruth Danon*, and Patricia Eakins. Gary Lutz will sing ballads accompanied by a dulcimer. 4) Hymn to the Insect God (a hypermedia piece by Pastor Keith and John McRandle, housed in the 3rd bed hypermedia gallery) has been selected to appear in the Future ForWORD Exhibition. 5) *Robert Creeley has selected work by Ruth Danon, which appeared in 3rd bed #3, for the upcoming Best American Poetry. 6) Review copies of Stories in the Worst Way by Gary Lutz will soon be directed outward. If you're interested in writing/publishing a review contact me and we'll talk. 7) Friends of the Family, Post Road will host their new release party in New York on Friday, April 26th, 9 PM at the Dibrova Social Club (136 Second Ave.) and in Boston on Saturday, April 27th at the Audubon Circle Bar and Grill (838 Beacon) 5-7 PM. +) We are nothing without you and your support. If you feel 3rd bed is even remotely interesting as a project please consider subscribing. Subscription, this most elemental aspect of publishing a journal, is the determiner of our being. I say this without any exaggeration. Till then, Vincent --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:30:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kasey Mohammad (Hotmail)" Subject: Re: LAMGuagE POETRy of a Nature poem In-Reply-To: <20020422214709.61563.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 4/22/02 2:47 PM, heidi peppermint at hpmint@YAHOO.COM wrote: > LAMGuagE POETRy of a Nature poem > > Language poetry is a orange of orange authority in orange poetics. > > Language orange is held out orange be one orange the poetic orange of the > present orange. > > Language poetry is the biggest trend I see, experimental writing. > > Language orange is about orange and shared experiences. > > Language poetry is a orange for orange and speed.... > etc. Orange you glad I didn't reprint the whole thing? K. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:36:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kasey Mohammad (Hotmail)" Subject: LP: some pretexts and prescriptions In-Reply-To: <20020422222531.46921.qmail@web11406.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit LANGUAGE POETRY: SOME PRETEXTS AND PRESCRIPTIONS Language poetry was not defined by one man. It just happened. The origins can be traced back. Language poetry had its ascendancy and is now in decline. Language poetry may have been in its classic period for a long time. Language poetry may include "Battle of Maldon," "Dream of the Rood," "Wanderer," "Seafarer." Language poetry was developed. In 1978 Charles Bernstein and Bruce Andrews began publication. Language poetry was now "readable." Language poetry was added later to clarify the range of poets and poetic modes. Language poetry was much looser and freer. I felt I had much more freedom in English. Language poetry was largely devoted to the movement's politics, drawing heavily on Ron Silliman. Language poetry may seem too removed from denotative sense to be read as making a political statement. Language poetry was democratic; anyone who "believed" in the aims of Language poetry was also. Language poetry was very much integrated into their life style. "Language poetry" was originally a term used by those who did not write it, just as "politically correct" is a term reserved for those. Language poetry was not allowed. Language poetry was blamed on tainted baby formula. Language poetry was the last credible avant-garde in the US to be critically assimilated. Language poetry was written in back in the middle ages for all of Europe. The most prominent city. Language poetry was this small cadre of Romany activists doing a bit more. Language poetry was variously marked by a range of other linguistic inheritances (eg, Irish). Language poetry was still written by and for court audiences. Language poetry was composed in an oral-formulaic style and recited aloud, from memory. Language poetry was set to music to celebrate the 54th anniversary of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization. Language poetry was always a rather disconnected, aesthetic affair. Language poetry was as much of a movement as we had that point? in American poetry at least? Language poetry was still a very marginal movement, but the CIA was in this. Language poetry should not be set aside when considering Language poetry. I want to examine. Language poetry will be studied closely. Language poetry will be used to provide examples of the need to widen the sense. Language poetry will be the focus of our written language for third quarter. Students will be exposed to 23 different types of poetry and will be composing. Language poetry will be considered, along with some of the great figures. Language poetry should be written in spoken language that contemporary intellectuals might use. Language poetry should be read aloud! Language poetry should be--at one level at least--immediately accessible to everyone. Language poetry should be non-obscure. Up to 3 shorts, 6 poems. Multiple subs (up to 3). Language poetry should be free of social vanity; no cliches. Why write poetry at all? Language poetry will be judged anonymously. Language poetry had to do with the status of the "I." Technology may grind the beef. Language poetry may relocate it to the peripheral, imagined insurrectionist consequences. Language poetry was our proximate example. Warring camps and battle lines drawn. Language poetry was fighting against, namely, the ugly hegemony of the author-hero. Language poetry was, in fact, also a cut-rate tourist destination. Language poetry had come to a dead end for a very simple reason. Language poetry may be closer to emotions and subjectivity; prose is closer to facts. Language poetry may seem incongruous. Nevertheless, this difficulty dissolves. Language poetry will remain the people's means of expression. Language poetry was for me the language of the "buried life"--and so it remains. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:43:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: WHAt IS Bass Fishing in Canada? (A Cento) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Again, I couldn't resist. (I felt a little bad about the terrorism thing so I thought I look for the more up tempo) WHAt IS Bass Fishing in Canada? (A Cento) (After R.B.) Bass Fishing in Canada is a certain kind or quality of intellectuality, or seeming intellectuality. Bass Fishing in Canada is a form of expression that allows our deepest soul to be portrayed to others. Bass Fishing in Canada is a message ... a language of the old and the young. The language of the weak and the strong. The language of patriots. Bass Fishing in Canada is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary terror. Bass Fishing in Canada is a particularly North American phenomenon that borrows from European traditions and theories. Bass Fishing in Canada is a particularly regular and effective tool for learning. Topics are rich. Bass Fishing in Canada is a perfect way to describe the blurred understanding of dreams. Bass Fishing in Canada is a performance art form involving rhythm and movement. Bass Fishing in Canada is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets and divers of sea fathoms.... Bass Fishing in Canada is a recuperation by "literature" of something that was questioning the water. Bass Fishing in Canada is a self-defeating fiction. Bass Fishing in Canada is a special type of language that attempts to express the inexpressible. It is not the pragmatic. Bass Fishing in Canada is a technology for memory and speed. Bass Fishing in Canada is a term I prefer not to use but must. Bass Fishing in Canada is a transcendence of logical confinement. A wonderful wine poured into a bottle. Bass Fishing in Canada is a type of speech. Second, song lyrics are stolen back from the dull. Bass Fishing in Canada is a very high form of linguistic intelligence. Bass Fishing in Canada is a way of expression open to anyone who chooses to use it. Bass Fishing in Canada is a way to make sense of the world. Bass Fishing in Canada is a way to say something in a way that shows love and elevates that. Bass Fishing in Canada is about going beyond the boundaries of traditional / conventional language usage. Bass Fishing in Canada is about making language happen. Bass Fishing in Canada is about memory and shared experiences. Bass Fishing in Canada is about moving an audience with sound and image. Bass Fishing in Canada is above all a concentration of the power of language. Bass Fishing in Canada is academy-ready. Its founders were interested in ideas. Bass Fishing in Canada is also better than prose at shaping small subjects to create intimate feeling. Bass Fishing in Canada is also fundamental because it speaks to the right through language and the left to feeling and addresses the middle with sly asides. Bass Fishing in Canada is also included but difficult to write. Bass Fishing in Canada is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately with issues. Bass Fishing in Canada is also provided. Bass Fishing in Canada is always the one you can feel more intensively. Bass Fishing in Canada is an North American phenomenon, not an Australian one. Explore its possibilities. Bass Fishing in Canada is an art form that places a very high value on the line. Bass Fishing in Canada is an art, and it is common for artists to disagree. Bass Fishing in Canada is an echo asking a shadow dancer to be a partner. Bass Fishing in Canada is an experience of referral in the place of transparent signification. Bass Fishing in Canada is artistic noise: it resists the dreams of pure communication. Bass Fishing in Canada is at once deep and humorous--deeply, often darkly, humorous. Bass Fishing in Canada is autobiographical at its fundament, even if an attempt to purge self. Bass Fishing in Canada is available in English, for example, but it doesn't have the same value. Bass Fishing in Canada is being explored and we are looking at the many techniques. Bass Fishing in Canada is best served when it attacks not language itself. Bass Fishing in Canada is blessed by many. Bass Fishing in Canada is both concise and precise, two of the most important elements for bass fishing in Canada. Bass Fishing in Canada is built of nothing but words, and must use what it finds to hand. Bass Fishing in Canada is by no means a toy in the hands of foreign rulers. Bass Fishing in Canada is central to existence, to the real lives of real people. Bass Fishing in Canada is concerned, then, with what it is to be radical in theory. Bass Fishing in Canada is considered centripetal because the author tries to infuse every word. Bass Fishing in Canada is constructed as a niche market. Bass Fishing in Canada is correlative to no object, including its own notion. Bass Fishing in Canada is diverse, including a selection by women in waders. Bass Fishing in Canada is especially powerful. I think the best way to understand Bass Fishing in Canada is essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is frequently structured in stanzas. Bass Fishing in Canada is filled with this type language, but so is regular language. The dog loved it. Bass Fishing in Canada is first of all speaking with listening, a peculiar state that is somehow self. Bass Fishing in Canada is flowing. A philosopher is talking to you and yet you just can not stop Bass Fishing in Canada is good for you--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap points to consider: Bass Fishing in Canada is held out to be one of the modes of the present moment. Bass Fishing in Canada is here understood as simply one of the functions that can be. Bass Fishing in Canada is here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture injection of speed. Bass Fishing in Canada is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical. Bass Fishing in Canada is how we word ourselves across rivers we never crossed before. Bass Fishing in Canada is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented syllables alternate in lines. Bass Fishing in Canada is impressive. Bass Fishing in Canada is in for one helluva ride, I would think! Bass Fishing in Canada is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been the regularly scheduled. Bass Fishing in Canada is influenced by theory. Bass Fishing in Canada is Jacob's ladder: a place where earth and spirit connect. Bass Fishing in Canada is. Bass Fishing in Canada is lost, but meaning may become more accessible. Her luminous watercolors, as ever. Bass Fishing in Canada is misleading. Bass Fishing in Canada is more like a group. Bass Fishing in Canada is more than this. Bass Fishing in Canada also takes the form of statement and declaration. Bass Fishing in Canada is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is oral. Bass Fishing in Canada is much more philosophically-based. Bass Fishing in Canada is neither genre nor movement. Bass Fishing in Canada is no harder to "get" than Cubism. Bass Fishing in Canada is normally recited. Bass Fishing in Canada is not "literature" and is not worth wasting parchment and ink on. Bass Fishing in Canada is not a secondary phenomenon: it has a special relation to being and truth. Bass Fishing in Canada is not an attempt to obscure meaning through ambiguity. Bass Fishing in Canada is not as explicitly multi-authored as web networks are, the expressive power of multiple context remains one of its main concerns. Bass Fishing in Canada is not designed basically to communicate information. Bass Fishing in Canada is not for everyone. They place Bass Fishing in Canada as a gender and class. Bass Fishing in Canada is not just a catch phrase to describe the words used in making. Bass Fishing in Canada is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language clear and honest. Bass Fishing in Canada is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the word language, which belongs to all. Bass Fishing in Canada is often intended to be read on the page. Bass Fishing in Canada is older than prose, and abstract speech m ore difficult. Bass Fishing in Canada is one in which there is a number of established people operating in diverse ways. Bass Fishing in Canada is one of the most ancient and widespread of the arts. Bass Fishing in Canada is one way in which our pupils see words coming to life. Bass Fishing in Canada is ordered by production rather than reproduction. The wader no longer reflects. Bass Fishing in Canada is our basic connection between our sense of self and the cosmos. Bass Fishing in Canada is poetry. Actually, poets can't do it, either. Unless you believe Bass Fishing in Canada is poetry. Bass Fishing in Canada is quoted from other sources, the writer gives new contexts to material. Bass Fishing in Canada is really thinking about a lot about what one has probably read. Bass Fishing in Canada is redemptive. Bass Fishing in Canada is release. Bass Fishing in Canada is seen as political act in the deepest sense. Catch and release. Bass Fishing in Canada is shit or that it is the shit--and no doubt that will be educational. Bass Fishing in Canada is special language. Bass Fishing in Canada is structured in short lines and verses. Most appealing things are. Bass Fishing in Canada is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties of the ambiguous and confrontational. Bass Fishing in Canada is best found anywhere on the web. Know it, use it, love it. Bass Fishing in Canada is the biggest trend seen. Bass Fishing in Canada is the cutting edge of a sphere. Bass Fishing in Canada is the essence and the power of language. Bass Fishing in Canada is the highest form of language. Bass Fishing in Canada is the language for expressing emotions, as we know. Bass Fishing in Canada is the only things that is language, but the term has long been used. Bass Fishing in Canada is the painting of the blind, while painting is the poetry of the deaf. Bass Fishing in Canada is the passion of language and children enjoy that as well. Bass Fishing in Canada is the refusal to take for granted the tyranny of meaning. Bass Fishing in Canada is the syllable. Bass Fishing in Canada is there as a backdrop. Bass Fishing in Canada is to meet some actual examples of it. Bass Fishing in Canada is at least twenty years old. Bass Fishing in Canada is understood to be an art of imitation: imitation with new inflections. Bass Fishing in Canada is undoubtedly the most self-critical--in the sense of self promotion. Bass Fishing in Canada is uniquely accessible to the speakers of that language. Bass Fishing in Canada is usually presented in lines. Bass Fishing in Canada is vibrant. Bass Fishing in Canada is waka. Bass Fishing in Canada is what gets lost in translation. Bass Fishing in Canada is what survives translation. Bass Fishing in Canada is wordplay, without the play or the word though language which makes it up. Bass Fishing in Canada is, as someone said, , the difference between being and self and other. Bass Fishing in Canada is, what would you say? W: I don't think I would be able to explain it. Bass Fishing in Canada, as you probably know, is.... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:58:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: LP: some slogans In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Language poetry will not be televised. (Wait a minute, isn't that Charles Bernstein with the phone book? Never mind.) The master's language will never dismantle the master's poetry. What do we want? Language! When do we want it? Poetry! No blood for language poetry! US out of language poetry! We're here, we're language poetry, get used to it! Silence = language poetry. Imagine all the language, living for poetry. Teach the language poetry well.... It's not a language, it's a poetry! (versus:) Keep your language off my poetry! I language for poetry. I'm with language poetry -----> Keep Language Poetry Safe And Legal I support the right to bear language poetry. God Bless Language Poetry U=N=I=T=E=D W=E S=T=A=N=D All we are saying is give language a poetry. Make my po the langpo, I wants to get funked up. Every language a wanted poetry. Just Say Langpo Closets Are For Language Poetry Nuclear war is harmful to language and other living poetry. Mega-langpos, Rush! I saw the best language of my poetry destroyed by madness. Smile! Your Mother Was Pro-Langpo! In space, no one can hear language poetry. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:50:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karla Nielsen Subject: Re: Who Wants My Book? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hey Dave sorry to reply only in response to stuff. I'd love to see a copy of cage dances, having only read your rants of late. I recognized a years-old complaint in the most recent one, reminiscent of a conversation on the way to see John Weiners in Boston. I'm at 4901 Clarke St., #3 Oakland, CA 94609. Send 2 if you'd like me to get a copy to Leslie or Rita. I've been working for Kelsey St. Press for awhile so can offer you a book of theirs/ours in exchange. you may remember me from brown. hope you've been well. listening, Karla >From: David Hess >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Who Wants My Book? >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:31:08 EDT > >Hi again, > >Last year the kind folks at Skanky Possum Press put together a chapbook of >ten 'early' poems called Cage Dances. It's not available through the >publisher or SPD, so I'm making this offer: 10 free copies in exchange for >something, a book or some poems, doesn't matter really. Otherwise, I''ll be >making xeroxes for anyone who wants one. I hope that makes sense. > >Give me your full name and address if you write me, >dave _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:53:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karla Nielsen Subject: Re: Who Wants My Book? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed poetics list moderator please disregard and don't post the message that I just sent you which was intended for David Hess. forgot that I needed to backchannel. thanks, Karla Nielsen >From: David Hess >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Who Wants My Book? >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:31:08 EDT > >Hi again, > >Last year the kind folks at Skanky Possum Press put together a chapbook of >ten 'early' poems called Cage Dances. It's not available through the >publisher or SPD, so I'm making this offer: 10 free copies in exchange for >something, a book or some poems, doesn't matter really. Otherwise, I''ll be >making xeroxes for anyone who wants one. I hope that makes sense. > >Give me your full name and address if you write me, >dave _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:16:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: intent In-Reply-To: <007401c1e95b$4f173020$4b63f30c@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Violence may be acute or chronic. The former is typical video/media violence and falsely defines the parameters. e.g., er, law 'n' order, csi, nwo etc. But, chronic hunger, persistently high rates of infant mortality, unemployment, sexism, racism, bad nutrition, environmental degredation etc....none are seen as violent. For the media...none sell. Besides, none accord with official definitions of violence as acts that threaten the existing order (or course, order is politically defined). Football goalpost wrecker-fans ain't violent. But, anti-WTO/IMF,Zionist etc. folks just might be. Imagine, "Dr. Jones, Nutritionist," a weekly show in which she visits with a different family each time and demonstrates the food pyramid? Would it sell? Gene At 10:38 AM 4/21/02 -0700, you wrote: >I think everyone makes overstatements or slips of the tongue from time to >time. My personal definition of violence involves intense physical contact, >but violation (my own definition) can be more destructive than violence. My >personal notion of nature includes human being as part of it, not separate >from or superior to it. It seems the statement led to discussions with a >wider range of implications than intended---displays of philosophical >muscle, so to speak. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "juliana spahr" >To: >Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 12:40 PM >Subject: intent > > > > i notice the conversation has moved on to eros, but just to meekly beg > > apologies... > > > > i think the problem here is just that my language was sloppy. somedays i > > just need to beg for one's assumptions that i'm not really trying to be > > reductive and hope you'll accept my get out of jail free card from the > > close readings. although i guess it is good for me to learn how to say > > things more clearly and part of writing is learning that. i did a > > rewrite of this essay when i gave the talk again last month and i went > > back and looked at the rewrite and noticed i had changed that sentence > > to this: "Davies's language invites compassion as it calls attention to > > selfishness: the selfishness of terrorism and the selfishness of bloody > > retaliation." (i think gary sullivan is going to publish the rewrite at > > readme at http://home.jps.net/~nada/ sometime soon.) anyway, i hope this > > makes it clear, although i thought the essay as a whole did this, that i > > am well aware that the u.s. is not at all innocent in any of this and do > > not support most of the u.s. government's foreign policy. > > > > re: Elizabeth T. Jackson > > > > group. Well I could say more, this isn't meant to close off other >meanings > > > > of those two multisyllabics. I think that when Spahr wrote that phrase > > > > "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and > > > > the selfish violence of terrorism" she fell into a bit of the >privelige and > > > > imperialism she is indicting. I am not indicting her for that, I am >quite > > > > sure I fall into it as well; Spahr and I are both Americans. Bluntly >my > > > > sense of that phrase was like "well you are the gang and we are the >police"; > > > > we might be just as bad as you but we have some sort of >reason/sanction > > > > behind us. Again, I do not mean to insult Ms. Spahr at all by writing >this, > > > > just to add in to the conversation. > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:26:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Incestry In-Reply-To: <002901c1e9f1$a993a420$219837d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:34 PM 4/22/02 +1200, you wrote: >It wasnt a crack. I was serious. worse yetBut not about Dave being related >to Rudolf >Hess. I've always been interested in the "Hess incident" though, and it >seems that Hess had the idea that the British would listen to him: now that >has always seemed to me to be almost heroic, if bizarre...I dont know much >about Rudolf Hess well, nothing like scholarship before we go flapping >romantically or unknowingly : like all the Nazis he seems a rather >pathetic figure. But >maybe he thought that he could obviate some of the more terrible aspects: I >dont know why they arrested a man whoseemed to be defecting to their side: >but then I dont know much about that incident. reason to know I se >parallels between the Isarelis and the Nazis. I se a link: in a sense >the present vilence may be 'caused" by that holocaust. i don't think that >psychologistic explanations work, what about power as a client state of >the us?But its time for >negotiation: for the UN to step in and try Sharon and Bush as war >criminals.Yes >Richard. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "gene" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:54 PM >Subject: Re: Incestry > > > > I find the crack about the Holocaust hurtful. And, I'm not a > > Zionist. It's historically accurate to separate the Holocaust and its > > horror from the disaster of Zionism. More properly, the Holocaust can >only > > really be a holocaust. There have been many, affecting different peoples; > > e.g., African slave trade, American slave system, treatment of American > > Indians or Australian aboriginal people, massacre of Armenians etc. > > > > On the question of humor, I don't find fun in what people cannot change > > such as race, gender, physical disability. And why should they change > > surnames either? > > > > > > > > Gene > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 07:19 PM 4/22/02 +1200, you wrote: > > >Dave. As you know I was reminiscing with some old school chums and we'd > > >imbibed more than the usual brandies...actually I find Rudolf Hess quite >an > > >interesting character: I dont see why we cant make humour about anything. >I > > >think that's half the trouble in Israel: the Israealis hark back >endlessly > > >to their holocaust (the poor me syndrome) while they hammer the hell out >of > > >the Palestinians in a land they stole of using Nazi methods: and nowadays > > >Israel is basically the stooge of the US receiving I belkieve about US$5 > > >billion to keep up the shit stirrring over there. Dont get worked up over >a > > >name while that shits going down. Richard. > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "David Hess" > > >To: > > >Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:10 PM > > >Subject: Incestry > > > > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > > > The other day Richard Tylr posed a question I hardly ever get asked: >Am I > > > > related to Rudolf Hess, Hitler's right hand man? I thought of letting >this > > > > go, because it seems to have been asked in jest (as if humor could >ever be > > > > evoked by such a reference). Nonetheless I feel like I must clear my >name > > >and > > > > reassure people that no relatives of mine were Nazis and no ancestors >came > > > > over in U-boats. > > > > > > > > The word "fascist" is used a lot in literary circles to describe >people > > >with > > > > extreme opinions. I would like to see an end to this particular kind >of > > >easy > > > > name-calling. > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > dave > > > > > > > > P.S.: I know some of you think I look German but you're wrong. I LOOK > > >SWISS! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:02:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Why Are You ~Posting~?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My slogan for today is Fuck the Poetry Wars Subj: Re: Who Wants My Book? Date: 4/22/2002 11:24:58 PM Central Daylight Time From: jeffreyjullich@yahoo.com (Jeffrey Jullich) To: Davdhess@aol.com --- Davdhess@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Jeffrey, > > Yes, hassen later told me you thought I was Kent > Johnson. She's such a kidder. You can't believe anything she says. She must've been joking. She knew I didn't think you were Kent Johnson ... although I was sort of obsessed with and severely burnt by the whole John Ashbery forgery fight and the consequences it brought down upon me, back then. It wasn't a very pretty hour in the "School of Buffalo" community. > I would agree that the essay "Twilight of the Huh's" > in Skanky Possum and > "The Passion of St. Buuckethead" are condemnations > but the one in Jacket is a > bit more balanced, don't you think. It becomes difficult to think of David Hess in terms of "balanced," David, because your whole gimmick is frontal attack. You often, unfortunately, rise to your most interesting and most clever when you're at the height of sarcasm and antipathy. But, as you might have noticed with the Buffalo List response that called your writings "rants," you're kind of creating a reputation or image of yourself as being just that, the author of rants, as if it were a distinct genre that you choose or are inventing or share with Skanky Possum. I don't entirely understand or sympathize with the tactic: I don't really believe it's a long-range strategy. Like atheism, it just brings more attention to the think you're attacking and, if you, as you like to, let yourself get out of hand and start becoming antisocial or sociopathic, it makes your side or points look bad and conversely adds a sense of innocence and wronged victim to the one you're attacking. What I was trying to say in my List response is quite true: you never develop your position through the ~constructive,~ through the building up of attention toward what might be a ~good~ example of where things are working better. The free-floating negativity and entertainment that you find in anger is sort of doomed to the way those passions go: they're largely editted out of "the big picture" because the excess of reckless emotion and (humorous) harshness is seen as ~invalidating~ any argumentative position you might have had. Like flambe'. When it's set down on the table, you don't notice if it's creme brule'e or lamb flambe' or what: you just notice that it's ~on fire.~ You often let most of your energy get sapped into that satirical antipathy, from what I've read, and you neglect a base of substantive critical construction. And consequently, in turn, you become insensitive to when you're actually being confronted with "the real thing" of an authentic critical foundation, ... as I think happened in your "missing the point" in my List responses. Because you've ~tuned~ yourself entirely to a wave-length of like/dislike, attack/retreat, you test responses only on that level of ~palate,~ how the first taste strikes you, tone, context, and you aren't really participating in any game or commerce of ~content,~ David, is how I see you. At least, for example, with someone like Benjamin Friedlander, who, paradoxically, had something of a reputation for being "anti-Language", or at least ~an alternative~ to Language, ~beyond~ Language, he --- or is it Leonard Schwarz I'm confusing him with? --- has this whole schtick about Levinas and ~transcendence,~ where the side-car or ammunition of Levinas, an unexpected trump by anyone's reading list, lends an aura of having put some sort of ~work~ into the building of an oppositional stance, instead of it's being sheer ~opinion,~ as is a little bit your case. > I was very interested in reading your post to me but > it seemed to harp on the > question of tradition and lineages which I have no > interest in, nor thought I > was trying to argue one way or another for. The > exclusion of many gay men > from Silliman's anthology needs to be addressed. I > just don't see what that > had to do with my small list of 'emotive' poets. You have a strange notion of List discussion, David. I haven't seen your name on the Poetics List before, so you may be sort of new to its culture, and the whole culture of ~interlocution~ and dialogue and discussion, as opposed to one-way pamphleteering. List response is not a one-for-one matching of point-to-point. It's a convergence of various separate sensibilities around temporary ~pretexts~ of topicality, where, talmudically, where one may say "A", the other is not restricted to saying "B", but response can bring in "Z" and "Q" and all sorts of amplifications. And it's out of those conglomerations and compounds that, hopefully, something approaching real thinking begins to show through,--- since list posts are typically hopelessly bad at structuring any significant position for the writer. What you seem to be seeing as ~disgression~ I saw as ~augmentation~ and even, David, as ~correction~ or "improvement" or taking forward and further, since, really, your gambit wasn't worked out much beyond witty attitudinal petulence. I was trying to take your post to ~a next level,~ of finding some real critical mettle that it could play off of. --- Even here, you seem to be operating out of another of these un-self-conscious Hess contradictions: you don't see what my readme Shurin essay had to do with your post, that is, ~digression~ or deviating from the point at hand is a bad thing; and yet, you could only take my response in as and limit it to "harping," where "harping" indicates the reverse, an extreme ~sticking to the point~ and undeviating focus;--- Because you're mainly letting your blood pressure and trigger-happy reflexed guide you, you're not really operating out of a place of consistency, as I read you, and you move ahead only through a series of arbitrarily contingent firecrackers that pop off at their own impulse. It's desensitizing you to ~even being able to read~ lineations where they're traced through something, my response, for example. That's fine, if you can find playmates who also want to play foodfight in the cafeteria,--- but you'll have to bear the burden of the apalled silence that sets in afterwards, as far as any writers who might think that poetics involves things like history or reason or--- even ~materiality,~ if your measure of the successfulness of your socialization is all through the pulse in your wrist. (I don't even fully understand why you're even ~posting~ to the Buffalo List, given your antipathies. Is it that you heard that the list moderating had been effectively abandoned, so that you could finally get through fast response personal attacks like what you slung at me [which probably might've been blocked, previously under moderation]? It seems like you've been sent in as some sort of scout for Skanky Possum or something, to disrupt.) I look forward to seeing your chapbook. Jeffrey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:33:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: book suggestions In-Reply-To: <20020422162130.43560.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed why under 30? Gene At 09:21 AM 4/22/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, all. > >I'm hoping you can help me with yet another query. >I'm planning to teach a lit class next fall focusing >on contemporary fiction, poetry and hybrid stuff by >very young writers--I would prefer as many of them to >be under 30 as possible. This is for a class of >students who won't have read much lit at all in their >lives, and who tend to see lit as something >intimidating and alien, so this work should be fun and >relatively accessible but also edgy and challenging. >Hopefully the work will bring up pop culture >references, sex and drug content and other things my >students will be surprised to find in literature. And >I definitely want to include writers of color, queer >writers, etc. > >So, any suggestions--short novels, short stories, >poetry books, anthologies, etc.--please backchannel. > >Much obliged, >Arielle > >PS Thanks for the recent postings of Language Po >defintions--very useful! The Flashpoint stuff was >great! > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more >http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:38:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: WHAt IS Terrorism? (A Cento) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed right on, right on Gene At 01:23 PM 4/22/02 -0700, you wrote: >>Sorry, but I couldn't resist. . . >> >>WHAt IS Terrorism? > > >Any country that makes and stores atomic weapons in a terrorist country. > >> >>Terrorism is a certain kind or quality of intellectuality, or seeming >>intellectuality. Terrorism is a form of expression that allows our deepest >>soul to be portrayed to others. Terrorism is a message ... a language of the >>old and the young. The language of the weak and the strong. The language of >>patriots. Terrorism is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary >>terror. Terrorism is a particularly American phenomenon that borrows from >>European traditions and theories. Terrorism is a particularly regular and >>effective tool for learning. Topics are rich. Terrorism is a perfect way to >>describe the blurred understanding of dreams. Terrorism is a performance art >>form involving signing rhythm and movement. Terrorism is a puppet-show, where >>riders of skyrockets and divers of sea fathoms.... Terrorism is a >>recuperation by "literature" of something that was questioning the poetic. >>Terrorism is a self-defeating fiction. Terrorism is a special type of >>language that attempts to express the inexpressible. It is not the >>pragmatic. Terrorism is a technology for memory and speed. Terrorism is a >>term I prefer not to use. Terrorism is a transcendence of logical >>confinement. A wonderful wine poured into a bottle. Terrorism is a type of >>speech. Second, song lyrics are stolen back from the dull. Terrorism is a >>very high form of linguistic intelligence. Terrorism is a way of expression >>open to anyone who chooses to use it. Terrorism is a way to make sense of the >>world. I never really know what I think. Terrorism is a way to say something >>in a way that shows love and elevates that. Terrorism is about going beyond >>the boundaries of traditional / conventional language usage. Terrorism is >>about making language happen. Terrorism is about memory and shared >>experiences. Terrorism is about moving an audience with sound and image. >>Terrorism is above all a concentration of the power of language. Terrorism is >>academy-ready. The founders were interested in ideas. Terrorism is also >>better than prose at shaping small subjects to create intimate feeling. >>Terrorism is also fundamental because it speaks to the right content through >>language. What.... Terrorism is also included but difficult to write. >>Terrorism is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately >>with issues. Terrorism is also provided. Terrorism is always the one you can >>feel more intensively. Terrorism is an American phenomenon, not an Australian >>one. Explore its possibilities. Terrorism is an art form that places a very >>high value on rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. Terrorism is an art, and it is >>common for artists to disagree. Terrorism is an echo asking a shadow dancer >>to be a partner. Terrorism is an experience of referral in the place of >>transparent signification. Terrorism is artistic noise: it resists the dreams >>of pure communication. Terrorism is at once deep and humorous--deeply, often >>darkly, humorous. Terrorism is autobiographical at its fundament, even if an >>attempt to purge self. Terrorism is available in English, for example, but it >>doesn't have the same value. Terrorism is being explored and we are looking >>at the many techniques. Terrorism is best served when it attacks not language >>itself (give me a good clause). Terrorism is blessed by many. Terrorism is >>both concise and precise, two of the most important elements. Terrorism is >>built of nothing but words, and must use what it finds to hand. Terrorism is >>by no means a toy in the hands of foreign rulers. Terrorism is central to >>existence, to the real lives of real people. Terrorism is concerned, then, >>with what it is to be radical in theory. Terrorism is considered centripetal >>because the author tries to infuse every word. Terrorism is constructed as a >>niche market. Terrorism is correlative to no object, including its own >>notion. Terrorism is diverse, including a selection by women. Terrorism is >>especially powerful. I think the best way to understand Terrorism is >>essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is frequently structured in >>stanzas. Terrorism is filled with this type language, but so is regular >>language. The dog loved it. Terrorism is first of all speaking with >>listening? a peculiar state that is somehow self. Terrorism is flowing. A >>philosopher is talking to you and yet you just can not.... Terrorism is good >>for you--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap points to consider.... >>Terrorism is held out to be one of the modes of the present moment. Terrorism >>is here understood as simply one of the functions that can be. Terrorism is >>here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture injection of speed. >>Terrorism is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical. >>Terrorism is how we word ourselves across rivers we never crossed before. >>Terrorism is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented syllables >>alternate in lines. Terrorism is impressive. Terrorism is in 839.8137 and a >>Norwegian-language novel is in 839.82. Terrorism is in for one helluva ride, >>I would think! Terrorism is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been >>the regularly scheduled. Terrorism is influenced by theory. Terrorism is >>Jacob's ladder for me: a place where earth and spirit connect. Terrorism is >>language. A sharp distinction in theory between rhyme and meter. Terrorism >>is lost, but meaning may become more accessible. Her luminous watercolors, >>as ever.... Terrorism is misleading. Terrorism is more like a group. >>Terrorism is more than this. Terrorism also takes the form of statement and >>declaration. Terrorism is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is >>oral. Terrorism is much more philosophically-based. Terrorism is neither >>genre nor movement. Terrorism is no harder to "get" than Cubism. Terrorism is >>normally recited. Terrorism is not "literature" and is not worth wasting >>parchment and ink on. Terrorism is not a secondary phenomenon: it has a >>special relation to being and truth. Terrorism is not an attempt to obscure >>meaning through ambiguity. Terrorism is not as explicitly multi-authored as >>web networks are, the expressive power of multiple context remains one of its >>main concerns. Terrorism is not designed basically to communicate >>information. Terrorism is not for everyone. They place Terrorism as a gender >>and class. Terrorism is not just a catch phrase to describe the words used in >>making. Terrorism is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language >>clear and honest. Terrorism is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the word >>language, which belongs to all. Terrorism is often intended to be read on the >>page. Terrorism is older than prose, and abstract speech more difficult. >>Terrorism is one in which there is a number of established people operating >>in diverse ways. Terrorism is one of the most ancient and widespread of the >>arts. Terrorism is one way in which our pupils see words coming to life. >>Terrorism is ordered by production rather than reproduction. The reader no >>longer reflects. Terrorism is our basic connection between our sense of self >>and the cosmos. Terrorism is poetry. Actually, poets can't do it, either. >>Unless you believe Terrorism is poetry. Terrorism is quoted from other >>sources, the Writer gives new contexts to material. Terrorism is really >>thinking about a lot about what one has probably read. Terrorism is >>redemptive. Terrorism is release (Gelassenheit). Terrorism is seen as >>political act in the deepest sense. Terrorism is shit or that it is the >>shit--and no doubt that will be educational. Terrorism is special language. >>Terrorism is structured in short lines and verses. Most appealing things are. >>Terrorism is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties of the >>ambiguous and confrontational. Terrorism is tae hae its first owersettin >>intae Chinese. Terrorism is best found anywhere on the web. Know it, use it, >>love it. Terrorism is the biggest trend seen. Terrorism is the cutting edge >>of a sphere. Terrorism is the essence and the power of language. Terrorism >>is the highest form of language. Terrorism is the language for expressing >>emotions, as we know. Terrorism is the only things that is language, but the >>term has long been used. Terrorism is the painting of the blind, while >>painting is the poetry of the deaf. Terrorism is the passion of language and >>children enjoy that as well. Terrorism is the refusal to take for granted the >>tyranny of meaning. Terrorism is the syllable. Terrorism is there as a >>backdrop. Terrorism is to meet some actual examples of it. Terrorism is at >>least twenty years old. Terrorism is understood to be an art of imitation: >>imitation with new inflections. Terrorism is undoubtedly the most >>self-critical--in the sense of self promotion. Terrorism is uniquely >>accessible to the speakers of that language. Terrorism is usually presented >>in lines. Terrorism is vibrant. Terrorism is waka. Terrorism is what gets >>lost in translation. Terrorism is what survives translation, not what's lost >>in it. Terrorism is wordplay, without the play. Terrorism is written in >>iambic pentameters. Terrorism is written in verse; that is, the lamguage >>which makes it up. Terrorism is written mostly in iambic meters. Terrorism >>is, as someone said, , the difference between is and was. Terrorism is, what >>would you say? W: I don't think I would be able to explain it. Terrorism, as >>you probably know, is.... > > >-- >George Bowering >My lap disappeared when I stood up. >Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:03:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis Warsh Subject: Readings at the Parkside Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" READINGS AT THE PARKSIDE LOUNGE 317 E Houston (corner of Houston & Attorney) New York City SUNDAY April 28 8 PM Elizabeth Reddin & Edmund Berrigan * SUNDAY May 26 8 PM Lewis Warsh & Jacqueline Waters ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:17:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: I was asked to forward MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ** Please circulate. Thank you. ** The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents a godless sufism . . . An evening of contemporary Turkish poetry w/ poet & translator MURAT NEMET-NEJAT Thursday May 2, 7:30 pm $7 donation @ The Unitarian Center 1187 Franklin (at Geary) --ALSO-- 3:30 pm, on campus at SFSU Humanities 202, free discussion & reading co-sponsored by Ivri-NASAWI http://www.ivri-nasawi.org/ MURAT NEMET-NEJAT has been engaged for years in the great project of bringing contemporary Turkish poetry--drawn from a body of work that "is one of these gigantic forces basically invisible . . . in the West"--into English. His translations include: Orhan Veli Kanik's crystalline lyrics from the 1940s (collected in I, Orhan Veli, Hanging Loose Press); Ece Ayhan's dark, intensely visionary prose-poems ("a poet of the victimized, of the totally discarded and forbidden") A Blind Cat Black and Orthodoxies (in one volume from Sun & Moon); K=FC=E7=FCk Iskender's staggering Souljam (= in manuscript), a long poem that's somehow violent and tender at once, swirlingly baroque in sensibility; alongside numerous other contemporary Turkish poets, several introduced under the heading "A Godless Sufism" in a recent short anthology (Talisman 14)--the root-work of a larger anthology to be published in 2003. LIVING I. I know, living isn't easy, Falling in love and singing of your sweetheart, Walking under the stars at night, During the day feeling the warmth of the sun, Finding the chance To go to Camlica Hills for one or two hours, Watching the Bosphorus run a thousand sorts of blue, Being able to forget everything in the blue. II. I know, it isn't easy to live, True; But a corpse's bed is still warm, Someone's watch is still ticking on his wrist; Living isn't easy, I know; But dying isn't easy either, guys. It isn't easy to leave this world. --Orhan Veli, tr. Murat Nemet-Nejat (from I, Orhan Veli, Hanging Loose Press) Murat Nemet-Nejat was born in Istanbul in 1940, to a Jewish family of Persian background, and came to the U.S. in 1959, graduating from Amherst College and Columbia University. His books include The Bridge, a long narrative poem, and a remarkable long essay The Peripheral Space of Photography (Green Integer, 2002). A dealer in antique rugs, he lives in Hoboken, New Jersey. More from Murat Nemet-Nejat at the following links: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~sibel/poetry/with_turkish_accent.html http://www.home.jps.net/~nada/murat1.htm http://www.jackmagazine.com/murat.html THE UNITARIAN CENTER is located at 1187 Franklin Street at the corner of Geary on-street parking opens up at 7:00 pm from downtown SF, take the Geary bus to Franklin * * * Coming up: April 23 Los Delicados, SF Public Library, 6:30 pm April 25 Kazuko Shiraishi & Wadada Leo Smith: an evening of poetry & music, Unitarian Center, 7:30 pm May 2 A godless sufism: Murat Nemet-Nejat, an evening of contemporary Turkish poetry, Unitarian Center, 7:30 pm May 2 Student Awards Reading, Poetry Center, 4:30 pm May 9 Bob Harrison & Andrew Levy, CRAYON reading w/ contributors: Chris Daniels (reading Fernando Pessoa), Jean Day, Hung Q. Tu, & Tsering Wangmo Dhompa, Unitarian Center, 7:30 pm Details at http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit/readings/readings.htm#current_season =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:28:45 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: [webartery] Sackner Archive In-Reply-To: <127.c0e8a89.299d278d@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi anybody have an address (not e-dress) for Ruth and Marvin Sackner? love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:40:21 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: "Language poetry is" (Google dub) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Interesting? Nah, not really. Log-rolling. What's he do? Quotes a bit of 'The New Sentence', says--on no good grounds that Silliman is rejecting syntax (the opposite would be closer to the truth) and from there that L= poetry rejects syntax which is a nonsense ... It goes on like that. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Gallagher [mailto:kgallagh@EMERALD.TUFTS.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 3:08 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: "Language poetry is" (Google dub) There is a very interesting discussion of Language Poetry in the latest issue of Flashpoint, one of the better web mags we have: http://www.flashpointmag.com/ kg Gary Sullivan wrote: > Language poetry is constructed as a niche market, > and its small presses as > a critique of bourgeois society. > Specifically, what has come to be known as Language > > Poetry is held out to be one of the poetic modes > of the present moment > in other registers of the poetic community. > Academic scrutiny of "Language poetry" > > is impressive, particularly for a small > press movement of poets, now mostly > the current situation of Irish language poetry is > one in which there is a number > > of established poets operating > in diverse ways, and a few individual new and > from various directions. The poet is a word > craftsman, a master of language. Poetry > > is the highest form of language. Brodsky > sees it also as the highest form > in their attitude to those like Bob > Perelman, who have moved within. Language poetry > > is concerned, then, with what it is to be > radical in theory, practice and > Ammons. It's not a viewpoint to which I > 'm entirely unsympathetic. Language poetry > > is also often seen as elitist because it never > dealt adequately with issues > politics that exists only in other people's > dismissal of it. Similarly, "Language > > Poetry" is neither genre nor movement, > and the name given to the poetry for > Potts? interest in Language poetry is > indicated in the only epigraph in the book. > > Barrett Watten?s "Authority is to representation > as trauma is to dreams > a new poetry, an *Australian* language poetry > rather than an *English* language > > poetry, is there as a backdrop. But the separation > of the new from the > principal divide between prose and poetry > is the sound of the language. Poetry > > is an art form that places a very high value > on rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. > Language Poetry is a movement of convincing authority > in contemporary poetics > > Often viewed as an estranging, intellectual > (as opposed to purely aesthetic > is media-ready and therefore beloved by even the print > media, language poetry is > > academy-ready. The founders of the language > movement were interested in ideas > the present political chaos is connected > with the decay of language ..." Poetry > > is not the entire solution > to keeping the nation's language clear and honest > art practised with the terribly > plastic material of human language. Poetry > > is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets > and divers of sea fathoms > is the realm of poetry, or poetic language. Poetry is > a special type of language > > that attempts to "express the inexpressible." It is > not the pragmatic > LANGUAGE POETRY. One of the most conversial movements > in experimental poetry, > > language poetry is highly personal, intellectual > and stylistically radical > Language Poets, a socially contrived basis of writing. > Language poetry is > > about going beyond the boundaries "traditional/ > conventional" language usage > been good for poetry written in German; > indeed, contemporary German-language poetry > > is vibrant. This poetry is accessible > to an American audience, but he doesn't bother > to write down the poem itself-- > not worth wasting parchment and ink. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com -- Kevin Gallagher Global Development and Environment Institute Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy Tufts University Medford, MA 02155 t:617-627-5467 f:617-627-2409 http://ase.tufts.edu/gdae ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:03:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark In-Reply-To: <200204201147.g3KBl5Ee023773@manatee.unf.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 17 (2002) Shelley Ettinger | B and N Ponder the Statute of Limitations on War Crimes Shelley Ettinger, a secretary at New York University, has been active in progressive movements for 30 years. She co-authored We Won't Be Slaves: Workfare Workers Organize (IAC, 1997: NYC). Her poetry has been published in Facets (October 2001). She is writing her first novel, for which she was recently awarded a Money for Women / Barbara Deming Memorial Fund research grant. She was also awarded a summer 2001 residency at Norcroft Writing Retreat for Women. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:07:21 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Permission for listserv cites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barret. I/d say yes. The point would be to indicate maybe the context of what was said ...and if its a part, some acknowledgement of the way a "snippet" can alter the meaning eg my little thing about Dace Hess was prefaced with a bit of a humoresque nonsense, so the while thing would be better to quote (of course you wouldnt want to its trivia) but my point is that Listees are always taking parts of messages and this distorts the import of what was being said...and maybe anyone quoted should be allowed to comment (if he/she feels it is very distortionate)....on the List its more or less par for the course for people to misquote etc but to cite things elsewhere would require plan A with permission from the sender and sendee...although I suppose it doesnt ultimately matter...but as you say for good will etc its a good idea. So, yes, I, for one, consense on plan A. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrett Watten" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:28 AM Subject: Permission for listserv cites > As part of a discussion of one month of listserv debate (specifically, > April 1999), I've contacted a number of people I want to cite from those > posts. This has led to a question of how listserv posts ought to be > treated. Two theories: > > A) The listserv is published document, and short citations (less than a > substantial portion of the work) can be cited as "fair use." Reprinting a > whole post, however, would require the author's permission. > > B) The listserv is a publicly available archive, but any direct citation > from it, no matter how short, is an instance of publication that requires > the author's permission. One can, of course, describe the content of a > message by paraphrasing it. "So and so said that XYZ" vs. "so and so said, > 'XYZ.'" > > I had assumed B to be the case, but Charles Bernstein thinks that A falls > within the parameters of the listserv's Welcome Message. If the correct > theory is A, I would still want to obtain permission, not to mention good > will, whenever possible. > > Is there a consensus on this? > > Thanks, Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:39:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: David Hess Has a Great Idea, um, I Think MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hilarious too tired to backstroke will take love free books love anything free will make students read &review too! Sm. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:17:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: NEW WORK ON LANGUAGE POETRY Comments: cc: flarfy@hotmail.com, mitch.highfill@db.com, jdavis@panix.com, nada@jps.net, damon001@tc.umn.edu, drewgard@erols.com, toomuchflarf@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed NEW WORK ON LANGUAGE POETRY Here is what we have been working on and what is to come: Language poetry has been our main focus for the past several weeks and we will continue to work. Language poetry has been around for twenty years, we can see that. Language poetry "has been repeatedly and favorably singled out in prestigious scholarly journals" and "routinely discussed." Language poetry has been unable to move beyond TS Eliot. Language poetry would be just as outstanding, and it is nowhere nearly so. The call for the description: an essay by Marjorie Perloff. Language poetry has succeeded in showing us how impossible of a mission it is. It might be. Language poetry, for example, being sensuous and metaphoric, is connected with the age of heroism. Language poetry can be defined as the work of an associated network of writers who share in the main. Language poetry can be by making it easier for a wider readership to "enter here, to sit." Language poetry can be seen as a way of converting the world to human categories. Language poetry can consequently be called another kind of theology (altera quae quondam Theologia fuit). Language poetry can operate a change of level or plane. Unamuno wrote: "thought feels, feeling thinks." Language poetry has the ability to delight the ear and the power to stir our emotions. Language poetry can be beautiful. Of course, there are those for whom flowery language blooms not. Language poetry can only, and only undertakes to, 'liberate' what is already there. Language poetry has succeeded as enactment and is not reducible to formal representation. Language poetry needs no justification, it isn't an argument that can be refuted. Language poetry CANNOT be dictated. It evolves on its own. Lastly, there is only one Shayar. Language poetry would have to grapple with the classic avant-garde dilemma. Language poetry doesn't contain a single poem appropriate for the predicament of telling someone you love. Far from being cosmetic language, it is intestinal. Throughout the seventies Language poetry would interest me. Language poetry would require a book, wouldn't it? Or several volumes, at the least.... "Language poetry" would not have entered literary history. Language poetry has been the poetics of negation. Those who have given up. Language poetry would feature the importance of negation (my second premise). From negation, critique.... Language poetry would be the most useful, since the meter is always lost in translation. Good choices.... Language poetry gives an example of language that is difficult to translate. Fairy tales, myths.... Language poetry always seems to be written in an alien language. Language poetry has moved off into the realm of broken syntax, shards of sentences.... Language poetry would be tremendously difficult. Language poetry can be quite complex in its simplicity. Think about it literally as well. Language poetry has come into its own. Peter Gizzi and Elizabeth Willis, for example, studied. Language poetry is this kind of poetry but the term "Language poetry" has been too abused for use here. Language poetry has been a guerrilla poetry, persecuted by the establishment but running freely. Language poetry can be got with a reading of, say, two or three of the major books. Language poetry to me is just unendurably boring. But I talk to some of these people who write it. Language poetry would make it much easier to ignore them as marginal. Language poetry has been important in shaking things up and moving the scene along; whatever.... Language poetry has infested and drugged the minds of young post-Language poets and turned them, oddly, into the scalpels. Language poetry has been institutionalized. Whether he likes it or not, Steve has played a part. Language poetry has 165 footnotes not 150,000. 165 were enough. You demean the profession. Language poetry has its own way of saying things, often with figures of speech that operate at both the symbolic and rhetorical level. Language poetry made its gradual entrance into poetic tradition in the 14th century. Language poetry (not Latin church poetry) was pretty sketchy in the 12th century. What exists.... Language poetry has been taking place in Italy over the last few decades. Throughout Italy. Language poetry can be found deeper into France with Magma, born in the early 70's, recently. Language poetry remains, as it has been throughout the ages, a major part of Irish culture. Language poetry does not present a same interest than prose. Chinese language works in prose. Language poetry has, for the most part, given up on fullness of representation. Language poetry has shifted the interest away from the person. But it's how you do it. Language poetry has no physical presence . Yet who in this world has not seen it? We have. Language poetry came from our original ingestion of fermented beverages. Language poetry has lost to the poetry of ethnic identity. Language poetry makes room for its reader. As Perelman notes here, "Language writing is best." Language poetry makes sense to me because it highlights the crucial significance of problems. Language poetry does this, of course. Language poetry does, despite Michael Palmer's claim not to be a Language poet. Language poetry can aid in the development of children^Òs language. If we adults model enjoyment. Language poetry makes you a better writer by realizing how difficult poetry can be and how much. Language poetry makes an unveiled challenge to logic-driven composition, muscling in on us with the coherence. Language poetry makes things more transparent and clearer and teaches us to respect--understand--this is serious stuff, language. Language poetry has no metre, but then you might want to argue that that is not true. Language poetry requires skill in many things such as symbolism, allegory, verse, meter.... Language poetry, then, is an art form of this possibility, registered in the sense of verse. Language poetry, for example, is language with rhythm (and sometimes rhyme). Poetry with steady pitches is song. Language poetry, for example, is just language with rhythm (and sometimes rhyme, etc.). Language poetry has its own preferred diction and word order is a servant to meter. Language poetry has to have its rhythms and its lyricism built in. You don't. Language poetry has become more and more popular and I cannot begin to describe it. Language poetry presents a channel from which we can tune out the external world. Language poetry needs Shockwave plugin and RealAudio player. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:37:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: thanks Re: Call for help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks mucho to all who responded to my call for quotations. I was temporarily separated from my copy of The Great Thoughts, compiled by George Seldes. You folks are the best. Sniff. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:45:11 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: intent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree. The picture is complex: an as you say or imply, violence is everywhere: the issue of the holocaust is not relevant ( right now ) to the situation in Palestine/Israel. Except maybe everyone should be thinking of the futility of revenge and continual war (unless its in self-defence and that is really justified). It requires intelligence and negotiation. I think if the United Nations with US and other countries cooperate a dual state can be set up: maybe even with a wall around both countries, a real wall like the Great Wall of China - I'm serious - then some aid to Palestine - real productive aid: I think that as the standard of living is or would be improved in countries the toal amount of violence reduces: is not eliminated, but reduces, and also both (everyone) has to accept certain fait accompli and make some compromises - as we do when we pay tax even if we disagree with taxation we know its a neccessity...and so on. With a truly democratic United Nations war may well be eliminated in say 50 years. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gene" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:16 AM Subject: Re: intent > Violence may be acute or chronic. The former is typical video/media > violence and falsely defines the parameters. e.g., er, law 'n' order, csi, > nwo etc. But, chronic hunger, persistently high rates of infant mortality, > unemployment, sexism, racism, bad nutrition, environmental degredation > etc....none are seen as violent. For the media...none sell. Besides, none > accord with official definitions of violence as acts that threaten the > existing order (or course, order is politically defined). Football > goalpost wrecker-fans ain't violent. But, anti-WTO/IMF,Zionist etc. folks > just might be. > > Imagine, "Dr. Jones, Nutritionist," a weekly show in which she visits with > a different family each time and demonstrates the food pyramid? Would it sell? > > > Gene > > > > At 10:38 AM 4/21/02 -0700, you wrote: > >I think everyone makes overstatements or slips of the tongue from time to > >time. My personal definition of violence involves intense physical contact, > >but violation (my own definition) can be more destructive than violence. My > >personal notion of nature includes human being as part of it, not separate > >from or superior to it. It seems the statement led to discussions with a > >wider range of implications than intended---displays of philosophical > >muscle, so to speak. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "juliana spahr" > >To: > >Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 12:40 PM > >Subject: intent > > > > > > > i notice the conversation has moved on to eros, but just to meekly beg > > > apologies... > > > > > > i think the problem here is just that my language was sloppy. somedays i > > > just need to beg for one's assumptions that i'm not really trying to be > > > reductive and hope you'll accept my get out of jail free card from the > > > close readings. although i guess it is good for me to learn how to say > > > things more clearly and part of writing is learning that. i did a > > > rewrite of this essay when i gave the talk again last month and i went > > > back and looked at the rewrite and noticed i had changed that sentence > > > to this: "Davies's language invites compassion as it calls attention to > > > selfishness: the selfishness of terrorism and the selfishness of bloody > > > retaliation." (i think gary sullivan is going to publish the rewrite at > > > readme at http://home.jps.net/~nada/ sometime soon.) anyway, i hope this > > > makes it clear, although i thought the essay as a whole did this, that i > > > am well aware that the u.s. is not at all innocent in any of this and do > > > not support most of the u.s. government's foreign policy. > > > > > > re: Elizabeth T. Jackson > > > > > group. Well I could say more, this isn't meant to close off other > >meanings > > > > > of those two multisyllabics. I think that when Spahr wrote that phrase > > > > > "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and > > > > > the selfish violence of terrorism" she fell into a bit of the > >privelige and > > > > > imperialism she is indicting. I am not indicting her for that, I am > >quite > > > > > sure I fall into it as well; Spahr and I are both Americans. Bluntly > >my > > > > > sense of that phrase was like "well you are the gang and we are the > >police"; > > > > > we might be just as bad as you but we have some sort of > >reason/sanction > > > > > behind us. Again, I do not mean to insult Ms. Spahr at all by writing > >this, > > > > > just to add in to the conversation. > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:30:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Parody/definition of Language Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I've said many times, I have no gripe with Langpo. But the parody was F AN TA STIC!! Wonerful wonerful. Even kinda brilliant. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:32:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Re: LAMGuagE POETRy of a Nature poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Kasey Mohammad (Hotmail)" wrote: on 4/22/02 2:47 PM, heidi peppermint at hpmint@YAHOO.COM wrote: Language orange is about orange and shared experiences. Orange orange glad I didn't reprint the whole thing? K. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:55:21 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: LP: some pretexts and prescriptions In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi Kasey, I'm fascinated by this concept of drawing heavily upon Ron Silliman:) hope his bulk can stand the pressure love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:22:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Permission for listserv cites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit permission for sender and gender too Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:18:25 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Follari Subject: Message for williams james austin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Austin, I noticed your e-mail from the Poetics group mentioning something about 'Quotations'. I happen to have a very nice collection of quotes that I have written over the years. Would you like me to send you a copy of them? Regards Tony Follari Artist/Writer _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:09:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Re: LP: language slogans in a time of poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How many language does it take to poetry a light bulb? Language in the air, nice and slow, now turn a poetry. Just five dollars a language and this poetry can learn to read. For language support, contact the poetry of your language. Poetry takes a language to raise a poetry. We regret to language you, but we cannot poetry your poems at this language. She looks remarkably poetry for her language. If poetry is a language and all language is poetry, Thus language the poetry. Once upon a language, in a poetry far far a language, there lived a poetry, and her name was language. We take these poetry to be language poetry. And the Language said, poetry and it was language. Take one poetry, twice a language, for one poetry. You can't language two birds with one poetry. I know you're language, please pick up the poetry! Knock! Knock! Who's Language? Poetry. Language who? Poetry Language. Gwyn McVay wrote: Language poetry will not be televised. (Wait a minute, isn't that Charles Bernstein with the phone book? Never mind.) The master's language will never dismantle the master's poetry. What do we want? Language! When do we want it? Poetry! No blood for language poetry! US out of language poetry! We're here, we're language poetry, get used to it! Silence = language poetry. Imagine all the language, living for poetry. Teach the language poetry well.... It's not a language, it's a poetry! (versus:) Keep your language off my poetry! I language for poetry. I'm with language poetry -----> Keep Language Poetry Safe And Legal I support the right to bear language poetry. God Bless Language Poetry U=N=I=T=E=D W=E S=T=A=N=D All we are saying is give language a poetry. Make my po the langpo, I wants to get funked up. Every language a wanted poetry. Just Say Langpo Closets Are For Language Poetry Nuclear war is harmful to language and other living poetry. Mega-langpos, Rush! I saw the best language of my poetry destroyed by madness. Smile! Your Mother Was Pro-Langpo! In space, no one can hear language poetry. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:52:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: syntax redo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii favorite work with nuts-undone syntax (poetry) "sappho's gymnasium" by olga broumas and t begley (also reprinted in "Rave" by olga broumas) favorite novel with undone structure "saving history" by fanny howe favorite undone "PLOT" by claudia rankine undone "autobiography of cassandra" by ursule molinaro oh i guess anything by ursule molinaro... ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:51:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In my own attempt to learn about language poetry I've found that a = number of language poets and theorists respond in the way jazz = musicians used to respond to people who wanted to know what jazz is: "If = you can't hear it, baby, I can't tell you."=20 My own hook into writing my version of language poetry was free jazz, as = opposed to jazz based on harmonic structures. Making music with words = has always been the key to what I do. Language poetry allowed me to go = "atonal." In my experience, many language poets have extensive musical = backgrounds. Reading language poetry as verbal music might be a shortcut = into understanding it. Below are a few links I've dug up in my attempt to find out how my work = relates to the work of language poets. I've read sections from the first = link and found it helpful in explaining language poetry. http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/chap9.html I haven't read anything in the link below, but it appears to have a lot = of informative commentary http://www.ubu.com/feature/papers/feature_oei.html ONCE AGAIN, Jean-Francois Bory's book on Concrete Poetry, recently = articulated to me a lot of what I'm doing in my own work. I don't know = if the book is in print, though; I bought a used copy. For those who remain puzzled by language poetry, probably not too many = on this list, recent postings should indicate one of the freedoms the = idiom permits: you can write a poem with "orange" in it without worrying = about finding a rhyme. Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:31:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Belladonna*NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit quick reminder: ENJOY BELLADONNA* Friday, April 26th 7:00 pm with Anne Waldman Bhanu Kapil Rider kari edwards ADDRESS/DIRECTIONS : Bluestockings Women's Bookstore 172 Allen Street, bet. Rivington & Stanton --F train to 2nd Ave. For Info: (212) 777-6028 *** Rachel Levitsky 458 Lincoln Place, #4B Brooklyn, NY 11238 http://www.durationpress.com/belladonna "Brother, if you don't mind, there is a cloud of glass coming at us, grab my hand, lets get the hell out of here." -Anonymous ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:04:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kasey Mohammad (Hotmail)" Subject: Re: Permission for listserv cites In-Reply-To: <009401c1ea63$38e3ce40$479837d2@01397384> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My feelings about my own stuff are that once it's e-mail (at least e-mail intended to be read by people some of whom I don't know by name), it's public property. Kasey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:05:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: <009d01c1eae7$25359ca0$4b63f30c@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i don't wish to take anything away from language poetry, those who write language poetry, or those who speak for or against (or ambivalently about) language poetry---and never mind how one defines "language poetry" (which is itself at issue, evidently)---but one thing is crystal clear: language poetry must be perceived as an extremely, extremely important phenomenon, NOW, for folks to keep hashing it over... and over... and over... as is the fashion on this list of late... and i'm pretty certain that, were i among those poets affiliated with language poetry (i'm not), i would likely be pleased as punch to have garnered such incredible attention (pro con whatever)... in fact, i would likely be astonished... in fact, i think i might even be kinda, well, nonplussed... so: would any of the language poets on this list, or those affiliated directly with language poetry (feel free to elect yourself!), care to step forward and report your inner- or outermost feelings about the amount of press you're currently getting hereabouts?... charles?... ron?... barrett?... bruce?... carla?... rae?... lyn?... et al... if you're currently listening, would you care to comment?... b/c (and not to insinuate blame at all, but) your silence amid all of this talk of the phenomenon of which you're presumed to be representative (however so) is making me feel a bit like i'm in a museum, overhearing the crowd discuss the artwork... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:11:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Can someone articulate an aesthetic for telling good language poems from bad language poems? Or is it -- "I know it when I see it" -- ? Laura Fargas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:21:34 +0000 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: The Russian Avant-Garde Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This site just went up at MoMA: http://www.moma.org/russian/ It's really terrific, but it absolutely requires Micromedia Flash 5.0 and you will also want a broadband connection (like DSL or a school connection) -- it's painful at 56K dialup. Ron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:18:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kuszai Subject: Publication Announcement: Todd Baron Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" NOW AVAILABLE: THAT LOOKS AT ONE AND SPEAKS Todd Baron Poetry Cover art by Michele Costa-Baron Factory School. 2002. 43 pages. Handbound, petty-net perfect binding by Bill Marsh. $10.00 for more informaton: custodian@factoryschool.org http://www.factoryschool.org/content/pubs/baron/baron.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:33:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? Comments: cc: Vernon Frazer In-Reply-To: <009d01c1eae7$25359ca0$4b63f30c@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Vernon Frazer writes: In my own attempt to learn about language poetry I've found that a number of language poets and theorists respond in the way jazz musicians used to respond to people who wanted to know what jazz is: "If you can't hear it, baby, I can't tell you." I reply: Vernon, I thing you have that quote wrong. I think it should read: "If you can't language it, baby, I can't poetry you." To which the only suitable reply would/could/should be: "Orange." Apparently . . . JGallaher ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:51:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The new jargon of pomo hipsters! ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Gallaher" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:33 AM Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? > Vernon Frazer writes: > > In my own attempt to learn about language poetry I've found that a > number of language poets and theorists respond in the way jazz > musicians used to respond to people who wanted to know what jazz is: > "If you can't hear it, baby, I can't tell you." > > I reply: > > Vernon, I thing you have that quote wrong. I think it should read: > > "If you can't language it, baby, I can't poetry you." > > To which the only suitable reply would/could/should be: > > "Orange." > > Apparently . . . > JGallaher ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:56:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: <33DB6DF9C51BD511BC4B00D0B75B2D81017087A9@esfpb03.dol.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Laura Fargas Writes: >Can someone articulate an aesthetic for telling good language poems >from bad language poems? >Or is it -- "I know it when I see it" -- ? I Reply: Ouch. Who wants to tackle THAT one? (In 50 words or less?) To the best of my knowledge, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry, as "poetry" doesn't really exist. It's so problematized a term, as to be nearly impossible to use when actually speaking about a "poet" or "poetry." As a theoretical term (& as a political one) it's quite useful and interesting. Quite beautiful, even. Especially with all those equal signs. I wish people would use them more often. As a way to assign "good" and "bad" it doesn't work, though. And wasn't, I think, ever meant to. It's a descriptive term only. The concept of evaluation doesn't enter, that I've found. Unless it's the "evaluation" of the/this cultural machinery by the/this/now dislocated opacity of the art act itself. Which couldn't possibly answer your question, of course. And would seem to be, perhaps, historically bound anyway? All of this is just "maybe." Um, JGallaher ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:49:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit joe: when I think of language poetry I rarely associate it with names & enigmas, partly I suppose because I seem it as a far wider practice largely done by a wide network of writers whose names dont appear in the canon....for instance someone like John Bennett who has been creating languaged works for 30 years & is extremely active in small press networking (& now on the net) but to my knowledge has never invested any energy or time into promoting himself as such. or for instance a press like Potes & Poets who publishes 10s of titles that "could" be indexed as language poetry, historically & contextually. or another way of saying it. you have yr big L & yr little l. as a movement the big L is becoming fossillized. as a sensibility that is dynamic & permutational the little l can be found in a wide range of work & especially in the work of many people who wouldnt ever have a reason to call themselves "language poets." I apologize for my weakness here, this tread seems to appear on a monthly basis year after year & I usually try my best to ignore it. mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:02:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: no mail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Can somebody tell me how to set this list to no mail? I got the info file and thought I was doing it right, but keep getting an unknown command message. I've written to the list admin, but haven't received a response. Thanks. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:11:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: brad senning Subject: Reading in DC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This Friday (4/26) at Chapters Books (1512 K Street, NW) two poets and two fiction writers from the University of Maryland will read from their work. Josh Mensch (poetry) Brad Senning (fiction) Michaela Baltasar (fiction) Kate Singer (poetry) will be reading with other MFA students from George Washington University and John Hopkins. Cost: free I really encourage everyone to come - not only to support promising young writing students - but we've been assured that if the reading goes well, if the intrest is strong, then Chapers will consider making the event a continuing affair. THE READING WILL BEGIN AT 7:00pm Chapters Books - 1512 K Street, NW (in DC) (202) 347-5493 Metro stop: Farragut North (red line) will get you to K st - take a left on K and you're there. If you have any questions email me at oegold@hotmail.com. Ian Miller. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:17:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: Re: Permission for listserv cites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html

Hi Barrett, I agree with Kasey on this, tho I certainly fear personal embarassment. But maybe your question will help keep us all under "control". Cheers, Elizabeth

ps I would particularly emphasize the "intended" part below, of course.

Kasey wrote:
My feelings about my own stuff are that once it's e-mail (at least e-mail
intended to be read by people some of whom I don't know by name), it's
public property.


Elizabeth Treadwell

http://www.durationpress.com/authors/treadwell/home.html


Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here
========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:42:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: <3CC5909A.7BAFE143@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" miekal, good to hear from you... thanx for your response, and i do tend to see the matter much as you... thing is, ysee, though i've been much influenced by language writing both L & l (poetry and theory, and the poets-writers themselves, as friends and acquaintances), i know (at least, i think i know!) that i'm most def *not* one of the folks whose work (or person/a) is being referenced/comes to mind when folks on this list refer to language poetry... now how do i know that?... sure, there has been and continues to be massive popular confusion surrounding the term, as you suggest... i mean, you think of it in terms of a practice or set of practices that reveal themselves in the work of a wide range of artists to varying degrees (and over time)... whereas j gallaher (hi!) posts in to say that, as poetry, it "doesn't really exist," and is more a descriptive tag to be applied to a theoretical-political nexus (?---well, maybe you and j and i aren't that far apart, really)... but, when i'm referred on this list to an article in ~flashpoint~ that aligns language poetry with positivism (and there are too many problems with said alignment for me to do justice to here, though i did glean a few interesting insights from the piece, invective aside), and seeks to dissect the failure of language poetry as a successful alternative to official verse culture---and when i'm treated, likewise, to an exchange, and subsequent permutations of said exchange, in which "language poetry" seems to signify something quite explicit (and all of this, parodic or no, might represent a reduction, yes)---all the while knowing that many of the key players who precipitated said movement (or set of practices) are listening in, well: i still get this feeling that i'm witnessing a sort of two- or (counting me and others like me) three-tier situation, whereby one set of folks is preoccupied with the writings/personae of another set of folks, who in this case have, well, chosen to be mute on the matter... and it's not that i don't understand why these folks might *not* want to comment, either... but... it makes me not a little uncomfortable, not b/c i haven't been consigned to one set of folks (and i wouldn't e.g. elect mself to language poetry status, whatever that might mean), but b/c the upshot of the list's current fascination with or emphasis on language poetry, however reductive or exemplary, creates a poetry welt that, to be candid about it, i don't feel does justice to the art... and lacking, as i do currently and have of late, the sheer energy necessary to elucidate the 3rd/4th/5th/6th/7th (etc.) alternatives to the way the poetry world is correspondingly divvied up by the language poetry pro-con-whatever discourse, i probably shouldn't talk!... and i surely wouldn't *exclude* language poetry from my view of the poetry world, either... so it *does* seem to me, in any case, that the key players ought probably to pipe up some, HERE, to give us their impressions of what all is going down when this topic gets raised with such intensity... b/c there's substantive slippage (see e.g. that ~flashpoint~ piece) between the work as such and the person as such in much of what's being said---and in fact, slippage in context as such, b/c few commentators in *any* of these discussions tend to treat this matter in terms e.g. of literacy (which would, yep, raise the educational arena's ugly head, but perhaps not the way one imagines) and the marketplace... and this slippage for me means a potential misapprehension of the relationship between work and history---and a little first-hand insight from the people/ workers of this history, though hardly to be received as received wisdom (of that we can be certain), might go a long way toward clearing the air some... or maybe not!... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:18:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Joe: I proudly join you among the ranks of the not-referenced! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The university professes the truth, and that is its profession. It declares and promises an unlimited commitment to the truth." Jacques Derrida (Without Alibi 202) Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:27:54 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [webartery] Sackner Archive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi > anybody have an address (not e-dress) for Ruth and Marvin Sackner? Aye, Chris: The Ruth & Marvin Sackner Archive of Concrete and Visual Poetry, 300 West Rivo Alto Drive, Miami Beach FL 33139. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:36:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: intent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "With a truly democratic United Nations war may well be eliminated in say 50 years." As long as war continues to be an economic powerhouse for interested parties, I doubt 50 years, even with a truly democratic UN will be enough time! J at the risk of sounding like a paranoid conspiracy theorist that is! ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:45 PM Subject: Re: intent > I agree. The picture is complex: an as you say or imply, violence is > everywhere: the issue of the holocaust is not relevant ( right now ) to the > situation in Palestine/Israel. Except maybe everyone should be thinking of > the futility of revenge and continual war (unless its in self-defence and > that is really justified). It requires intelligence and negotiation. I think > if the United Nations with US and other countries cooperate a dual state can > be set up: maybe even with a wall around both countries, a real wall like > the Great Wall of China - I'm serious - then some aid to Palestine - real > productive aid: > > I think that as the standard of living is or would be improved in countries > the toal amount of violence reduces: is not eliminated, but reduces, and > also both (everyone) has to accept certain fait accompli and make some > compromises - as we do when we pay tax even if we disagree with taxation we > know its a neccessity...and so on. > > With a truly democratic United Nations war may well be eliminated in say 50 > years. Richard. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gene" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: intent > > > > Violence may be acute or chronic. The former is typical video/media > > violence and falsely defines the parameters. e.g., er, law 'n' order, > csi, > > nwo etc. But, chronic hunger, persistently high rates of infant > mortality, > > unemployment, sexism, racism, bad nutrition, environmental degredation > > etc....none are seen as violent. For the media...none sell. Besides, > none > > accord with official definitions of violence as acts that threaten the > > existing order (or course, order is politically defined). Football > > goalpost wrecker-fans ain't violent. But, anti-WTO/IMF,Zionist etc. folks > > just might be. > > > > Imagine, "Dr. Jones, Nutritionist," a weekly show in which she visits with > > a different family each time and demonstrates the food pyramid? Would it > sell? > > > > > > Gene > > > > > > > > At 10:38 AM 4/21/02 -0700, you wrote: > > >I think everyone makes overstatements or slips of the tongue from time to > > >time. My personal definition of violence involves intense physical > contact, > > >but violation (my own definition) can be more destructive than violence. > My > > >personal notion of nature includes human being as part of it, not > separate > > >from or superior to it. It seems the statement led to discussions with a > > >wider range of implications than intended---displays of philosophical > > >muscle, so to speak. > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "juliana spahr" > > >To: > > >Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 12:40 PM > > >Subject: intent > > > > > > > > > > i notice the conversation has moved on to eros, but just to meekly beg > > > > apologies... > > > > > > > > i think the problem here is just that my language was sloppy. somedays > i > > > > just need to beg for one's assumptions that i'm not really trying to > be > > > > reductive and hope you'll accept my get out of jail free card from the > > > > close readings. although i guess it is good for me to learn how to say > > > > things more clearly and part of writing is learning that. i did a > > > > rewrite of this essay when i gave the talk again last month and i went > > > > back and looked at the rewrite and noticed i had changed that sentence > > > > to this: "Davies's language invites compassion as it calls attention > to > > > > selfishness: the selfishness of terrorism and the selfishness of > bloody > > > > retaliation." (i think gary sullivan is going to publish the rewrite > at > > > > readme at http://home.jps.net/~nada/ sometime soon.) anyway, i hope > this > > > > makes it clear, although i thought the essay as a whole did this, that > i > > > > am well aware that the u.s. is not at all innocent in any of this and > do > > > > not support most of the u.s. government's foreign policy. > > > > > > > > re: Elizabeth T. Jackson > > > > > > group. Well I could say more, this isn't meant to close off other > > >meanings > > > > > > of those two multisyllabics. I think that when Spahr wrote that > phrase > > > > > > "...the selfish privilege and imperialism of the United States and > > > > > > the selfish violence of terrorism" she fell into a bit of the > > >privelige and > > > > > > imperialism she is indicting. I am not indicting her for that, I > am > > >quite > > > > > > sure I fall into it as well; Spahr and I are both Americans. > Bluntly > > >my > > > > > > sense of that phrase was like "well you are the gang and we are > the > > >police"; > > > > > > we might be just as bad as you but we have some sort of > > >reason/sanction > > > > > > behind us. Again, I do not mean to insult Ms. Spahr at all by > writing > > >this, > > > > > > just to add in to the conversation. > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:00:18 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: M L Weber Subject: Sugar Mule ezine seeks literary erotica Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed www.SugarMule.com is looking for literary erotica (poetry and prose) ------------------------------------ Online now - issue 10 - "on the road" Poetry Pierre Joris CANTO DIURNO #2 Karl Young from Milestones Prose Paul Beckman Three pieces Andrei Codrescu Road Kill Shawn Davis Shakedown Paul Alan Fahey A Solitary Sound Herbert Foster Kaufman My Last Run John J. Maguire The Former Traveller Rochelle Ratner Popping Seaweed Wayne Scheer Road Trip Lawrence Upton Hesperides Harriet Zinnes Without Any Pressing Need _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 17:52:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael Subject: The Hannah Kahn Poetry Foundation presents Michael Rothenberg reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HANNAH KAHN POETRY FOUNDATION=20 presents=20 MICHAEL ROTHENBERG=20 A poetry reading and discussion of the poet as political/ social = activist=20 May 3rd=20 8PM Books & Books 265 Aragon Ave Coral Gables, Florida Free hors d'oeuvres Call 305- 448-9044 for directions=20 Or contact biagio12@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:11:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Studies in Practical Negation: Four Talks on Culture & Dissent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Studies in Practical Negation Four Talks on Culture & Dissent at the Kootenay School of Writing 201 - 505 Hamilton Street in Vancouver 604-688-6001 FREE Part of the Mayworks Festival of Working Class Culture & Politics www.tao.ca/~mayworks Treachery and Betrayal Sunday May 5 at 2pm=20 Sharla Sava A review of Guy Debord's theory of the spectacle, making reference to his indebtedness to Marx's theory of commodity fetishism. What I would like to stress, in particular, however, is the role that 'the image' plays in Debord's theory. In order to make this argument it will be necessary to consider not only Debord's Marxist roots but also the subtle and complex way that he employs ' the image.' I am supposing that Debord's reference to the spectacle was intended not only to identify the pre-eminent role played by the image in consumer society, but also to investigate whether the image could be recovered and employed as a tool for revolutionary dissent. Sabotage for Idiots Sunday May 12 at 2pm Aaron Vidaver Everyone appreciates the satisfaction to be found in a job well undone. Whether it's slackening up to interfere with the quantity of capitalist production, or botching your skill to interfere with the quality, or giving piss-poor service, the withdrawal of efficiency is an ever-popular means of striking back at the profit of the owning class. The talk will address the tried-and-true techniques, from "ca canny" to "d=E9tournement", with a prickling of anecdotes from the history of industrial and cultural sabotage. Instruments of Uselessness Sunday May 19 at 2pm Diana George & Nic Veroli We're interested in uselessness and desertion as affirmative, joyful practices. We start by raising some questions about the primacy of negation, and the dead ends into which it has led thought (practice). With desertion, what we want to desert above all is self-sacrifice: the striker who sacrifices herself for the future. Deferred gratification is the contamination of time by the negative; working (or striking) becomes waiting, boredom, death. Desertion without privation, desertion without sacrifice, these are the only desertions worthy of the name. Protest Genres and the Pragmatics of Dissent Sunday May 26 at 2pm Roger Farr Like all speech-acts, protest and opposition often fall into recognizable genres: the leaflet, the march, the strike, the sit-in, the blockade, etc. As interlocutors in these speech-acts, the authorities rely heavily on anticipation and predictability in order to understand, describe, control, and diffuse our actions. Therefore, we need to anticipate this anticipation; we need to identify the predictable conventions of the protest genres, and re-introduce elements of shock, surprise, and misrecognition. We need to make dissent unreadable. Recommended Reading: T.J. Clark, Foreword to Anselm Jappe: Guy Debord (1998) www.notbored.org/jappe-foreword.html Guy Debord, The Society of the Spectacle (1967) http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rkeehan/si/tsots00.html Guy Debord & Gil Wolman, A User's Guide to D=E9tournement (1956) www.bopsecrets.org/SI/detourn.htm=20 Karl Marx, The Fetishism of Commodities and the Secret Thereof (1867) www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm#S4 Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, Sabotage (1916) www.iww.org/sabotage/title.html Ozimandias Collective, Sabotage Handbook (n.d.) www.reachoutpub.com/osh www.sabotage.org/handbook Michael Hardt & Toni Negri, Empire (2000) www.excess4all.com/empire/empire_cracked.pdf [printable PDF file] www.excess4all.com/empire/empire.txt [text file] C.L.R. James, Dialectical Materialism and the Fate of Humanity (1947) http://www.marxists.org/archive/james-clr/works/diamat/diamat47.htm Oskar Negt & Alexander Kluge, Der untersch=E4tzte Mensch (2001) www.kluge-alexander.de/lp_der_unterschaetzte_mensch.shtml Alice Becker-Ho, The Language of Those in the Know (1995) http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rkeehan/postsi/language.html Harry Cleaver, Computer-linked Social Movements and the Global Threat to Capitalism (1999) www.eco.utexas.edu/facstaff/Cleaver/polnet.html Richard Gombin, The Origins of Modern Leftism (1971) www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2379/gomlef01.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:06:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII do you see me woodstork. you have fast bill. i have strength. together we alligator. i will eat my i will not have my children. my re dead. i will be dead later. inole rams-horn. you'll see. alligator you but we're on our way down in marl alligator cannibalism. i wander 30-35 miles across the sawgrass. i eat alligators. i eat herons. egrets. you'll see. i am bull alligator. i will eat my children. i will not have my children. my children are dead. i will be dead later. later. seminole rams-horn. you'll see. you'll see. i will not make alligator hole. i will wander 30-35 miles. i will eat alligator. i will eat heron. egret. bittern. you'll see. you'll see. you stupid alligator you will taste good in 30-35 mile wandering. it goes like this: "something's up." _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:57:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: <3CC5909A.7BAFE143@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii since my chosen literary forebear Maulana Rumi (figures that the best-selling poet in America after BC would be an Afghan) was a L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poet (there's yer equals sign) and actually pretty intense about the whole thing, I dug the passage he always used to start quoting to me (from memory--of course) whenever we would talk about it: "...we have emphasized a spectrum of writing that places its attention primarily on language and ways of making meaning, that takes for granted neither vocabulary, grammar, process, shape, syntax, program, or subject matter..." that's from the first paragraph of "repossessing the word" the introduction by Bernstein and Andrews to the "L" Book "Ok murky in after all end, unpredictable day, with rain shine any degree night, the sun kin warm and hot" (Larry Eigner, "L" Book, p198) but also in a post- kind of way, talking about what language poetry "is" or "means" feels sort of like when I was reading "My Life" the revised version and was trying to figure which of the lines in each section were the Seven New Ones. which is just a metaphorical way of saying how when Coyote doesn't fall until he looks down and sees he's not standing on the cliff anymore anybody want a sandwich? Kazim (who-wishes-he-was-blessed-by-Rosmarie-Waldrop) ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:06:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: What Is? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Since I've been posting to the listserv with fairly trivial or mechanical questions, and there has been a debate under way about the nature of Language poetry, a few quick responses. First, what kind of question is being asked? Some analogies: what is surrealism, what is poetry, what is pornography, what is art, what is language. It seems to me that the way question is raised, an aspect of all these could be involved: a historical movement or literary tendency vs. stylistic attributes or other objective descriptors; a genre; a legal definition subject to "community standards"; that which we all agree is X; an object of study or a means of communication. And yet I think there is a distinct kind of journalistic worrying over the issue--something like How do I explain this to someone who has never heard of it, and does that make either me or him/her legitimate or illegitimate--that continually circles around the same null point. Perhaps Language poetry is very good at evoking that null point, which then becomes a part of its reception. I would rather it be seen in precisely the opposite sense--a set of particular and decisive options. I'm aware of a lot of spinning around this issue, but also a number, by now, of very concrete positions for thinking the question through. And it can be surprising that few of these positions are ever a part of the debate. There is more often than not an aura of collective crisis about the discussion--if that is or was Language poetry, what am I doing, what is my relation to it? The more particular the answer to the first half of the question, the worse it is for the latter. I don't think we have to return to the kinds of identity the positions in L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E often assumed, between description of the work and the "work itself." As I've claimed pretty emphatically, there is a necessary difference between styles and descriptions; they don't just fragment into the same problem of language or signification. In Bruce Andrews's criticism, this relation gets very close, but I would argue that is the exception that proves the rule. That, immediately above, is one position I take in an article, "The Secret History of the Equal Sign," published in Poetics Today. It's available at Project Muse, from Johns Hopkins University Press, for those who can access it. Let me say that it's a lot of work to write, present, publish an article like that! (I'm thinking that now because I'm in the process of reprinting it.) And then you get the continual return to the baseline null point discussion, as if one had never said a blessed thing. Even more to the point, look at Ben Friedlander's incredible "A Short History of Language Poetry," in the recent Qui Parle I edited. What Friedlander does is uncover or disclose a secret history or influence of existentialism that no one had ever guessed was a part of the Language movement--because it really never was, except by absorption. Yet his arguments are as detailed, distinctive, and cogent as you could find. There are hundreds of implications to what he is saying that haven't been worked through or developed yet. That project of Ben's took years to bring to fruition. I haven't been able to read everything that's been said on the issue here, and I think there is some interesting thinking and rethinking, reframing going on. But the circling around the null point has got to be recognizable as well. Why are the many particular positions out there--many more than the two I just brought to the table--more importantly a part of the discussion? I ask you. Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:48:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It might be more productive to ask What is language? What is poetry? tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:00:27 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: What Is? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How do these questions differ from "Who is?" "Who are?" "Who were?" "And, if so, when?" (and who wasn't) (then maybe we can ask 'why' etc.?) Barrett Watten wrote: > Since I've been posting to the listserv with fairly trivial or mechanical > questions, and there has been a debate under way about the nature of > Language poetry, a few quick responses. > > First, what kind of question is being asked? Some analogies: what is > surrealism, what is poetry, what is pornography, what is art, what is > language. It seems to me that the way question is raised, an aspect of all > these could be involved: a historical movement or literary tendency vs. > stylistic attributes or other objective descriptors; a genre; a legal > definition subject to "community standards"; that which we all agree is X; > an object of study or a means of communication. > > And yet I think there is a distinct kind of journalistic worrying over the > issue--something like How do I explain this to someone who has never heard > of it, and does that make either me or him/her legitimate or > illegitimate--that continually circles around the same null point. Perhaps > Language poetry is very good at evoking that null point, which then becomes > a part of its reception. I would rather it be seen in precisely the > opposite sense--a set of particular and decisive options. > > I'm aware of a lot of spinning around this issue, but also a number, by > now, of very concrete positions for thinking the question through. And it > can be surprising that few of these positions are ever a part of the > debate. There is more often than not an aura of collective crisis about the > discussion--if that is or was Language poetry, what am I doing, what is my > relation to it? The more particular the answer to the first half of the > question, the worse it is for the latter. > > I don't think we have to return to the kinds of identity the positions in > L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E often assumed, between description of the work and the > "work itself." As I've claimed pretty emphatically, there is a necessary > difference between styles and descriptions; they don't just fragment into > the same problem of language or signification. In Bruce Andrews's > criticism, this relation gets very close, but I would argue that is the > exception that proves the rule. > > That, immediately above, is one position I take in an article, "The Secret > History of the Equal Sign," published in Poetics Today. It's available at > Project Muse, from Johns Hopkins University Press, for those who can > access it. Let me say that it's a lot of work to write, present, publish an > article like that! (I'm thinking that now because I'm in the process of > reprinting it.) And then you get the continual return to the baseline null > point discussion, as if one had never said a blessed thing. > > Even more to the point, look at Ben Friedlander's incredible "A Short > History of Language Poetry," in the recent Qui Parle I edited. What > Friedlander does is uncover or disclose a secret history or influence of > existentialism that no one had ever guessed was a part of the Language > movement--because it really never was, except by absorption. Yet his > arguments are as detailed, distinctive, and cogent as you could find. There > are hundreds of implications to what he is saying that haven't been worked > through or developed yet. That project of Ben's took years to bring to > fruition. > > I haven't been able to read everything that's been said on the issue here, > and I think there is some interesting thinking and rethinking, reframing > going on. But the circling around the null point has got to be recognizable > as well. Why are the many particular positions out there--many more than > the two I just brought to the table--more importantly a part of the > discussion? I ask you. > > Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:48:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Fence Massive Spring Comments: To: ira@angel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Spring is here and with it Fence #9 (http://www.fencemag.com), featuring: Poetry by, among others, Joyelle McSweeney, Michael Earl Craig, Yi Sang, Ann Lauterbach, Greg Purcell, Gillian Conoley, Geoffrey Cruikshank-Hagenbuckle, Will Alexander, Emmy Hunter, Aaron Kunin, Patrick F. Durgin, Lucy Ives, Christopher Stackhouse, Kristin Prevallet, Alan Halsey, Christine Hume, Mark Wunderlich, Srikanth Reddy, Mendi Lewis Obadike, Katie Degentesh, Drew Gardner, Josee Lapeyrere, Dieter M. Gräf, Stephen Sandy, Geoffrey Nutter, Karen Garthe, Jamie Gaughran-Perez, Karl Parker, Bruce Smith, Corinna Vallianatos, Sam Truitt, Anthony McCann, Lisa Pasold, Dean Young, Bin Ramke, Brandon Downing, Lance Phillips, Nick Moudry, Russell Edson, and Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish Fiction by Steve Almond, Leland Pitts-Gonzalez, Richard St. Germain, Aimee Bender, Anthony Hawley, and Julia Elliott An excerpt from a long autobiographical narrative by Helene Cixous, entitled "The Day I Wasn't There," translated by Beverley Bie Brahic A special Modern Art section, curated by Tim Griffin and featuring works by Ricci Albenda, Jeremy Blake, Amy Adler, Roe Ethridge, Aleksandra Mir, and Dike Blair *** Fence Cryptic T-Shirts, also available on the site, commemorate our Fall 2001 West Coast Tour: "See Rangers for Hours" I'd like to take a minute to tell you a little about how fun and refreshing it was last November to visit in our silver bullet mini-van such states as Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, California, and Nevada, and to be hosted so graciously at the University of Colo. in Denver, the Fort Collins Museum of Contemporary Art, the Salt Lake City Public Library, the Log Cabin Literary Center in Boise, Elliott Bay Books in Seattle, Powell's City of Books in Portland (where we managed to horrify a charming family of eight in the back row with our forthright lyrics), the Cali-lands of Cody's Books in Berkeley, New College in San Francisco, Beyond Baroque in L.A., and D.G. Wills Books in La Jolla, where we accompanied the amazing Rae Armantrout, and last but not least the University of Nevada in Las Vegas, where we spent a night at The Luxor, frightened to death of the "inclinators"--elevators that go up the side of a glass wall at a 70 degree angle. It was nice to get home but it would also be nice to leave again soon. *** As always, D.E. Steward's "Month" of the month *** Coming in the fall of 2002: The Constant Critic, a new independent poetry review venue, featuring the opined stylings of Jordan Davis and Christine Hume. Destined to be updated tri-weekly (every three weeks or so) and to keep you abreast in a timely manner. *** This list has recently been updated. If you'd rather not receive occasional Fence announcements, just reply "Unsubscribe." ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:53:37 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well I was one of the guilty parties (having posted the parody poem), and when I posted it, I was nervous about doing so in the presence of the "big L" crowd whom I cannot call by first names like you do... I am not, by your standards, I believe, a "poet" at all, just someone who reads and writes poetry and almost never publishes it, and my parody was a joke, as should have been obvious. But I got some vicarious pleasure (and some well-placed fear) knowing that I was sending it out to the Real Language Poets, whom for me (as do any_ group of well-known, published poets that I like to read, and I do not limit my reading to Language stuff) have a god-like stature I could never aspire to. I was hoping they might reply, even to say that I had deeply insulted them or something... But they don't participate in the list much at all. Perhaps they are busy writing poems? After I saw the initial positive response to my parody and other people started posting parodies of language poetry in other styles (it seems to be a genre with a variety of possible styles, even within one author's small collection; I noticed this rereading McCaffery's _The Cheat of Words_ this afternoon), I thought that the thread might go somewhere poetically rather than repeat the well-worn discussion in prose about what is Language Poetry. (Personally, I can tell if a book of poetry is language poetry in 15 seconds by opening it up to a random page.) I then began to envision a collection of "fake" Langugae Poetry and/or poems trying to demonstrate what Language poetry is (from the point of view of the reader, as if the poem was a distorted reflection of what the "real" language poets do. I imagined creating s web site (because that's what I do more than writing these days) called www.fakelangpo.com with fake language poetry on it amd perhaps fake academic arguments about how there can be no such thing as fake language poetry or fake poetry at all, only bad and good poetry, and then more papers (all fake) saying that bad and good are extremely suspect terms which must never be used, etc. etc. I'd enjoy a paper which pointed out that in an academic paper, as in any other text, a word's meaning is subjective and fluid and depends on the reader as well as the writer and can be best interpreted by looking at what isn't said around it etc., so that paper ends up either being meaningless, or a coded description of the author's sex life, or a paper that says the opposite of what it appears to say to the naive reader... I'm not sure I'd even WANT the "experts" to write for such a site, except that the site would be full of short (fair use) quotes from them. Of course none of it would work unless the contributions were really good. They couldn't just be puns, or silly pastiches. They's have to be capable of fooling someone for a while, say until they have read hald the piece, if it is short... It might take more skill to wrote fake langpo than the real stuff... So send on the fake poems.... Millie -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Joe Amato Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:42 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? miekal, good to hear from you... thanx for your response, and i do tend to see the matter much as you... thing is, ysee, though i've been much influenced by language writing both L & l (poetry and theory, and the poets-writers themselves, as friends and acquaintances), i know (at least, i think i know!) that i'm most def *not* one of the folks whose work (or person/a) is being referenced/comes to mind when folks on this list refer to language poetry... now how do i know that?... sure, there has been and continues to be massive popular confusion surrounding the term, as you suggest... i mean, you think of it in terms of a practice or set of practices that reveal themselves in the work of a wide range of artists to varying degrees (and over time)... whereas j gallaher (hi!) posts in to say that, as poetry, it "doesn't really exist," and is more a descriptive tag to be applied to a theoretical-political nexus (?---well, maybe you and j and i aren't that far apart, really)... but, when i'm referred on this list to an article in ~flashpoint~ that aligns language poetry with positivism (and there are too many problems with said alignment for me to do justice to here, though i did glean a few interesting insights from the piece, invective aside), and seeks to dissect the failure of language poetry as a successful alternative to official verse culture---and when i'm treated, likewise, to an exchange, and subsequent permutations of said exchange, in which "language poetry" seems to signify something quite explicit (and all of this, parodic or no, might represent a reduction, yes)---all the while knowing that many of the key players who precipitated said movement (or set of practices) are listening in, well: i still get this feeling that i'm witnessing a sort of two- or (counting me and others like me) three-tier situation, whereby one set of folks is preoccupied with the writings/personae of another set of folks, who in this case have, well, chosen to be mute on the matter... and it's not that i don't understand why these folks might *not* want to comment, either... but... it makes me not a little uncomfortable, not b/c i haven't been consigned to one set of folks (and i wouldn't e.g. elect mself to language poetry status, whatever that might mean), but b/c the upshot of the list's current fascination with or emphasis on language poetry, however reductive or exemplary, creates a poetry welt that, to be candid about it, i don't feel does justice to the art... and lacking, as i do currently and have of late, the sheer energy necessary to elucidate the 3rd/4th/5th/6th/7th (etc.) alternatives to the way the poetry world is correspondingly divvied up by the language poetry pro-con-whatever discourse, i probably shouldn't talk!... and i surely wouldn't *exclude* language poetry from my view of the poetry world, either... so it *does* seem to me, in any case, that the key players ought probably to pipe up some, HERE, to give us their impressions of what all is going down when this topic gets raised with such intensity... b/c there's substantive slippage (see e.g. that ~flashpoint~ piece) between the work as such and the person as such in much of what's being said---and in fact, slippage in context as such, b/c few commentators in *any* of these discussions tend to treat this matter in terms e.g. of literacy (which would, yep, raise the educational arena's ugly head, but perhaps not the way one imagines) and the marketplace... and this slippage for me means a potential misapprehension of the relationship between work and history---and a little first-hand insight from the people/ workers of this history, though hardly to be received as received wisdom (of that we can be certain), might go a long way toward clearing the air some... or maybe not!... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:11:35 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: permissions Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > My feelings about my own stuff are that once it's e-mail (at least e-mail > intended to be read by people some of whom I don't know by name), it's > public property. i completely agree with this another way to go is Copyleft over and over cris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 05:53:35 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: permissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > My feelings about my own stuff are that once it's e-mail (at least e-mail > > intended to be read by people some of whom I don't know by name), it's > > public property. > > i completely agree with this Me, too--except in the extremely unlikely event that someone uses something I wrote to make money, in which case I feel I should get a cut. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 05:59:14 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > since my chosen literary forebear Maulana Rumi > (figures that the best-selling poet in America after > BC would be an Afghan) was a > L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poet > (there's yer equals sign) and actually pretty intense > about the whole thing, I dug the passage he always > used to start quoting to me (from memory--of course) > whenever we would talk about it: > "...we have emphasized a spectrum of writing that > places its attention primarily on language and ways of > making meaning, that takes for granted neither > vocabulary, grammar, process, shape, syntax, program, > or subject matter..." Wow--now there have been two intelligent responses to the question as to what language poetry is, although this definition is too general for my taste. I know, I know-- poetry, like jazz, is just too wonderfully above the mundane to be definable except in the mute hearts of those supra-rationally in tune with Existence. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:19:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Say what? On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:48:54, Thomas Bell wrote: > It might be more productive to ask > > What is language? > > What is poetry? > > tom bell > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tell Her -- the page I never wrote! Tell Her, I only said -- the Syntax -- And left the Verb and the Pronoun -- out! --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:34:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << In a message dated 4/23/02 12:08:27 PM, joe.amato@COLORADO.EDU writes: << language poetry must be perceived as an extremely, extremely important phenomenon, NOW, for folks to keep hashing it over... and over... and over... as is the fashion on this list of late... and i'm pretty certain that, were i among those poets affiliated with language poetry (i'm not), i would likely be pleased as punch to have garnered such incredible attention (pro con whatever)... in fact, i would likely be astonished... in fact, i think i might even be kinda, well, nonplussed... >> No argument from me. Well said. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:35:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/23/02 12:38:53 PM, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: << In a message dated 4/23/02 12:15:07 PM, fargas-laura@DOL.GOV writes: << Can someone articulate an aesthetic for telling good language poems from bad language poems? Or is it -- "I know it when I see it" -- ? Laura Fargas >> I dealt with this in a meditation published last year. Any radical deviation from traditional/conventional poetic devices might have a problem in this area. A mixed metaphor, for instance, can be spotted in the classroom, on the page. A judgment can be rendered objectively whether or not the poem in question has "made it." But eschewing such devices, a poem (or a poetry) likely depends on consensus for its worth. In the case of Langpo this is especially ironic. Consensus drives the marketplace. Here we might very well have a poetry, ostensibly at odds with Capitalist/marketplace forces, that nevertheless finds itself more dependent on them than are conventional poetries. There's another way to go at this, of course. What we have is a movement that is valued as such. The individual poem is far less important and central/centered than the methodology and underlying philosophy. One language poem is as good or bad as another since those value judgments do not apply. Critics find the movement innovative. The originators are celebrated, ergo their writing ascends, not because of its aesthetic merits, but because it is valued as first. Not an uncommon justification for the shelf life of much avant-garde art throughout modern history. Just a thought. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:31:45 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Which questions go back to pre the L=A=N=G=U=A=N=G=E ERA...but they took it up to their credit: indeed it might be...but not more productive....just productive and probably some of the quests that initiated L=A= ...are questions we need to be conscious (of course we are) but I mean we need to make the effort constantly to "re-ask" those questions. In oter words: we need , I feel, to constantly reinvent - in new ways - the wordy wheel...Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" To: Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:19 AM Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? > Say what? > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:48:54, Thomas Bell wrote: > > > It might be more productive to ask > > > > What is language? > > > > What is poetry? > > > > tom bell > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Tell Her -- the page I never wrote! > Tell Her, I only said -- the Syntax -- > And left the Verb and the Pronoun -- out! > --Emily Dickinson > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:41:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nah Bill i think we're just all o/c d'ers con spare tiempo et global calor y au courant events shell shocked shitless trying to Centro meselves but el elviselves no hay permit. sheila ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:47:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: New Piombino EPC sound files Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Electronic Poetry Center (at http://epc.buffalo.edu/sound/piombino/) has added to its sound archive a one hour poetry reading that I recently gave on WKCR-FM. The show, called =B3Art Attack=B2, is hosted by Tom Kelly. The reading is available in the form of 20 individual mp3 sound files containin= g 22 poems from my books =B3Light Street=B2 (Zasterle Press,1996) and =B3Theoretica= l Objects=B2 (Green Integer,1999). These are best heard by downloading them and adding them to a playlist. Thanks and bravo to Charles Bernstein and Loss Glazier for their kindness and generosity in making this and so much other contemporary writing widely available. Nick Piombino ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:18:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: More Meditations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I write these "meditations" from time to time in an attempt to stay sane. While you ponder "LANGUAGE," I have been pondering the corruption of language. If you find these meditations tedious, apply the magic of "delete." If you want to share them with others, feel free to do so. More Meditations in a time of delusions and lies: An opinion piece by former President Jimmy Carter appeared in the New York Times (Sunday, April 21) in which he called for a viable Palestinian state, and set out fairly detailed aspects of reasonable terms for a peace settlement. This indicates that not every member of the political elite is utterly enthralled by the maximalist Israeli colonialist agenda. It's too bad that he couldn't be so bold at the time of the Camp David Accords, nor could he prevent his emissary to the United Nations Andrew Young from getting fired for merely speaking with the PLO representative in the hallway of the UN. Oh, the outrage at the time for even talking! In his article, Carter explains that he restrained Menachem Begin from his incursion into Lebanon, although he failed to mention that Begin kept none of his promises to dismantle West Bank and Gaza settlements or slow their pace of construction. Critics of Camp David at the time said that the agreement merely allowed Israel to turn to its north and invade Lebanon, which it did soon after Reagan came to power, hoping to destroy the PLO, create a Christian state with its Falangist allies to be a partner with the Jewish state, and perhaps even keep control of Lebanon up until the Litani River (which some early Zionist maps had proposed would be the northern boundary of the Jewish state), or at least control the precious water resources. After so much blood, that scheme failed. In any case, now all the newscasters and pundits on TV say that, of course, there should be a Palestinian state. Those of us who called for a Palestinian state 20 years ago -- at the time Sharon was killing tens of thousands of Lebanese and Palestinians -- were routinely labeled anti-Semites, self-hating Jews, or terrorists. Times change, and all of a sudden something is "obvious" -- but, again, only after so much blood, and supporters of peace and Palestinian rights can now be called names for other reasons. Of course, what someone means by a "state" is not so certain. Clearly, Sharon would like to see a museum, a tiny bantustan, or an Indian reservation to which tourists could be taken to see the charming relics of an earlier era before Jewish settlement brought "civilization" to the land. Of course, everyone wants a Palestinian state . . . In the same issue of the New York Times, a front-page article discusses a new pro-Israel bloc in the Republican Party involving an alliance of Zionists and Christian conservatives who support Sharon (Bush's "man of peace") for religious reasons, believing that Israel has a covenant with God. In their view, that particular contract stipulates that Jews get the land, and everyone else has to go. All such support revolves around elaborate apocalyptic scenarios, fantasies that involve the great Armaggeden war that, incidentally, will end up killing almost all the Jews in Israel (along with much of the rest of the world) in order for Jesus to return. Nobody likes to be incorporated into someone else's religious fantasies, but as a Jew (or as a human) I don't appreciate supposed support for Jews that actually involves a vision of my own death. Menachem Begin didn't have that problem, however. In the early eighties, he gave a gold medal (the Jabotinsky Award) to Rev. Jerry Falwell to honor his support of Jews and the State of Israel. I'm sure the Zionist leadership then and now don't think much of the religious scenario -- the goyem are crazy -- but they are wily enough to take support even from Protestant fundamentalists who endanger the freedoms of Jews and everyone else in America. Apocalyptic fantasies can be self-fulfilling. The invasion of the West Bank is only the first act. The invasion of Gaza awaits. Nor should anyone put it past Sharon, adventurist that he is, to provoke a wider, regional war, one which pits the US and Israel against the entire Arab and Muslim world. In this regard, he has help from elements within the American power elite, those who yearn with such tremendous blood lust to attack Iraq. Once that attack begins, Sharon can go ahead in murdering more Palestinians, complete his dream of "transfer," and assure Israel's dominance over the entire region, while the world is distracted by perhaps an even bloodier massacre. Yes, "obviously," everyone wants a Palestinian state . . . So, we have apocalyptic Christians who seek to "facilitate" prophecy, prodding the US to join Israel in a bloody war, while apocalyptic Zionists seek to expand colonial settlements through increasing violence because they believe God made a promise to them. Meanwhile, we are supposed to be shocked by apocalyptic Muslims who adopt the same mentality? An Arab poet 800 years ago said it succinctly: "Too much religion; not enough brains." So, thank you Jimmy Carter, Baptist that you are, for trying to be reasonable. It's a quarter of a century too late, but it's better than nothing. Hilton Obenzinger ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:52:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Douglas Messerli Comments: To: Martin Nakell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, This review of Los Angeles poet and fiction writer, Martin Nakell, = appeared in The Review of Contemporary Fiction (Spring 2002) in a piece by Steve Tomasula. The book, published as EL-E-PHANT/Green Integer 52, is = available to folks on this list for a 20% discount. The book, originally priced at = $16.95, is now $13.56 plus $1.50 for postage and handling, which comes to a total = of $15.06. Please send checks or money orders made out to El-E-PHANT to Green = Integer, 6026 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90036. The phrase novel of ideas doesn't exactly apply to Martin Nakell's = thoughtful Two Fields That Face and Mirror Each Other because of the = nineteenth-century baggage evoked by the term. And yet some similar = description, say conceptual art in the shape of a book, surely applies. = Though there is a plot (sort of a family saga in which Grey leaves his = lover Gloriana back in New York to visit a familly farm in Michigan and = attend the funeral of George, a friend's son, who kidnapped and killed = his stepbrother before committing suicide), the plot is the least of it. = Indeed, the novel is strongest when it functions less like Stendhal's = mirror traveling down the road of life and more like textual art on the = subject of identity: a weave of meditative sections in which, for = example, Grey sitting on a porch in Michigan and watching the repetitive = work of a farmer preparing a crop is counterpointed with Gloriana's = observation of the emotional cycles that a "tribe" of stock traders goes = through trying to predict wheat prices--just one manifestation of the = many fields that face and mirror each other. As the characters struggle = with a plethora of dichotomies, e.g. how family values in Michigan can = translate into the legal defense of a man known guilty of murder in New = York, the novel looks deeper into these mirrors facing mirrors until we = are considering the nature of narratiave itself. And this may be the = most convincing aspect of the novel: a demonstration that just when you = think it's all been done in the novel, a novel of ideas can still = reflect its own rich traditions even as it mirrors them in ways that are = meaningful to our contemporary cultural field, where neither people nor = institutions can be explained by naive looking. (Steve Tomasula, The = Review of Contemporary Fiction) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:44:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: printer inquery Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear list members, I am looking for a decent short-run digital color printing shop in the u.s. If you are aware of any, please let me know. Sincerely, Igor Satanovsky, kojapress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:03:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT it was just a random thought but maybe there's a glimmer in it? in my perception LP began, at least in some ways, as an examination with the poetry that existed at he time and wasn't "working" along with language (scientific, commercial, 'philosophical') that wasn't "working". For the most part "attacks" on LP in my perception have been a combination of defensive protection of the status quo and envious wannabe and this ends in a circular dichotomy. atthe same time over the years since LP's "birth" there are signs of a need for and acceptance of altered perceptions in both spheres so the question for me is whether it might not be more productive to examine the spheres separately (not necessarily in isolation from each other)? For example in the language sphere it is becoming increasingly clear that in medicine, for example, the old mind/body way of thinking (body/mind more appropriately) doesn't cut it any moreand this has progressed to such a degree that establishment gastroenterologists have begun to doubt Descarte. This is a rather specialized instance but I think there are others and the questiob for me is does LP offer them anything? i suspect it does but haven't figured it out. In the poetics sphere a similar phenomenon is in processbut it might be more productively examined in at least semi-isolation from the language and philosophical stuff. i know thie suggestion is anathema to the LP 'pioneers' who wed the two spheres in the first place but I think it merits consideration and discussion? tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:19 AM Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? > Say what? > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:48:54, Thomas Bell wrote: > > > It might be more productive to ask > > > > What is language? > > > > What is poetry? > > > > tom bell > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Tell Her -- the page I never wrote! > Tell Her, I only said -- the Syntax -- > And left the Verb and the Pronoun -- out! > --Emily Dickinson > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:11:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: rivera piece... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" great to hear e.g. barrett's response to the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e moment as it might be effectively problematized today... re the appended: no, i'm not saying that i don't have my own problems with same... but just to introduce some different material... worth reading through, in any case... best, joe ------------- Inside the river of poetry by Louis Reyes Rivera Always there is need for song. And every human has a poem to write, a compulsion to contemplate out loud, an urge to dig out that ore of confusion locked up inside. But with the contradictions of privilege and caste, of class and gender distinctions regulating access, of those ever present distortions in textbooks with their one-sided measure of human worth, and with the culture of white man still serving as ultimate yardstick to what is acceptable as matter, not everyone is permitted to learn to read, much less to study poetry or hone the art and take the risk of putting one's self on paper. While wanting to be naturally soothed by self-definition, too many among us learn to rely on commercial lyricists to reflect our joy and pain. At best, we latch onto committed activists who take on as social vocation the work of bridging the human spirit with word made flesh. At worst, we fall prey to professional wordsmiths (politicians and preachers alike) who conjure up another religion that dissuades us from social contention. Somewhere in between these two extremes, we sometimes meet and break a moment's bread with poets. Today, what was once called poetry is now Spoken Word Art. Unlike the Rappers who have Hip Hopped twenty-syllable couplets into a steadfast beat, Spoken Word Artists have returned to free verse oration exhilarated by internal rhyme schemes and unfettered metaphors that speak directly to inner city blues. The news of the day, testament and affirmation, current and advanced, informs this form of poetry that outlines the immediate and understudied aspirations of African and Latino Americans caught in the crossfire between skin game caste and an ever shrinking planet of high tech advances. Desk top publishing, internet websites, tea parties and Open Mic readings, marathon jams and poetry slams have combined to form the latest battlesites between truth and decadence. Inside the range of this contention are the new poets being pulled by and pushing against a state of confusion in search of clarity. Their names are many and they come from everywhere, like Jamaican Dub Poets in Germany and England, or Nuyorican Poets in Texas and the Bronx. To single out the more notoriously known here as comprising the new heat (like Tony Medina, Asha Bandele, Jessica Care Moore, Nzinga Chavis, Saul Williams, UniVerses, 2nd To Last, Ras Baraka), without qualification, is to commit the same crime as today's textbooks: taking a single droplet or two out of a river and making out like two droplets are the actual river itself. For just as each drop of water helps to form a river, each name dropped is but a metaphor for the many others who came before or right alongside those whose work forms our current popular canon. Poetry, you see, is as old as breath itself. For when human beings across the planet simultaneously uttered that first initial sound, they gave rise to the same echo heard in the wail of every newborn child. The sound of that cry might be onomatopoeic, but its meaning is quite literal. "I am here, now!" This is the essential affidavit that serves as testament inside every person's compulsion to give voice to the voice, as condition urges vision, vision provokes thought, and thought pronounces the name of God: "I matter, too!" Thus the birth of the word, the root of every language. Poetry. The strength of the people. The finest manifestation of craft, content and intent in every written and oral expression. The basis upon which all other literary genres have evolved. >From poetry, not only the lyric, but as well drama and narrative, the expository and the thematic, the didactic and the ideological as root to all our scripture, sacred and profane. It began as a blending of sound (the rhythm), sense (the experience), and color (the given image). A voice raised in celebration of itself. Chant and dance, music and tone, mystery and miracle forged into the embodied literature of people passing it on, by speech and sight, to each subsequent generation, asking and answering the fundamental question: How do we live? And is that the same as how we want to live or what we mean when we say there's something we're supposed to do? The Chinese call it The Way; the Buddhist, Enlightenment; the Hindu, Nirvana; the Muslim, Complete Submission to the Will of Allah; the Egyptian-Judeo-Christian, Seeking the Light; and among many Africans and Amerindians it was once referred to as Being At One With Life. And from the poets among them, it is that inner compulsion to Follow the Muse. They speak to the same cause, challenging the inner voice to maintain balance between flesh, thought, action. Thus, Poet as author of scripture and Griot as Keeper of a Narrative. Each generation, regenerated by its own voices has, since the first word heard, added to that tapestry of affirmation. In Egypt and throughout the Americas, they called it Song; in Israel, Psalms; in West Africa, Nommo; and in Greece, Poetry. It knows no borders. Unrestricted by or to genre, gender, nation, race, time or class. For in the need to contemplate, inside the compulsion to sing, and as Gylan Kain says, "to give voice to the deeper meaning of ourselves," poets learn to look upon love, life, struggle both as interchangeable terms and as the only limitations self-imposed. This is why poets are never invited to participate in televised forums, roundtable discussions and panels with other writers and speakers, journalists, politicians, social activists, academics, religious leaders. You never know what the poet will say. This is also why poetry is considered the most dangerous art form, why it is not honestly taught and thoroughly nurtured into our youth in the schools, among our adults in the factories and fields, inside our homes, churches, offices. It cannot be diluted, bought, sold, compromised or traded without treason to its beauty, its necessity, its meaning. The poet learns to care about every word. What we often view as a national literature is but one of many rivers coursing its way into the ocean of all our knowledge. In the general sense of world literature, we're supposed to bear in mind the ocean into which every river flows; with the particular local canon, however, we are actually cheated from studying all those droplets comprising both rivers and streams (the ethnic and the national), despite the fact that without them, there'd be no water to feed into that ocean. Sad to say that too many of today's Spoken Word Artists lack an understanding of their own context. So focused on the immediacy of their own moment of breath, they are not as well studied into the history and evolution of this artform for the vocation that it is. In short, they have not really read or been taught to engage the works of those who came before them. And so, this contributive note regarding the river of our poetry. African American poetry is not restricted to the United States. It is an hemispheric phenomenon as old as the dirge and the moan heard inside those first slave ships bound for the slave-breaking islands of the Caribbean, to Hispaniola and Mexico, long before they landed in Virginia. In the U.S., where drums were outlawed, it manifested as folklore, Spirituals and the Blues; in the Caribbean as Plena (Barbados), Bomba (Puerto Rico), Ska (Jamaica), with conga and steel drums, as with Merengue (Haiti) Mambo (Cuba) Calypso (Trinidad), like Samba (Brazil). With European influences setting up the parameters over form and acceptability, here or there the poem was separated from music. Thus, slave narratives grew into novels and African poetry in the Americas often took on the semblance of European meter, pace and nuance (a la Phyllis Wheatley). Today's reading rooms, soirees and poetry jams are hardly a new tradition, as they can be consistently traced back to 1888, the year that marked the end of American chattel slavery and the beginning of Negritude (both in Brazil) --during which period the children and grandchildren of slaves and runaways begin their careers as writers searching for new definition (like Charles Chestnut in fiction, Paul Lawrence Dunbar in poetry, and W.E.B. DuBois as researcher and social critic). Of course, freedmen were writing long before then. North American (John Russworm, David Walker, Frederick Douglass, Martin Delaney, William Wells Brown) and Caribbean writers (Placido, Eugenio Maria de Hostos, Ramon Emeterio Betances, Lola Rodriguez de Tio, Jose Marti) had been laying out a foundation for a literary African/American thought. But it is after 1888 that a genuine and continuing renaissance begins, as it now included all of the descendants of former slaves learning to define themselves on paper. Thus, Rag and the Blues as immediate metaphor for the thousands of artists in places like Memphis, New Orleans, Chicago, Santiago de Cuba, Le Cap and Harlem, who helped initiate a composite rebirth of African art spreading across the face of America, sometimes rolling like a teardrop, other times in denial of itself, but always from the spirit of intellect shaping its own voice. By the 1920s and early '30s, social struggle and a budding aesthetic had converged throughout the colonial world. Political movements (unionism, socialism, communism, anarchism, Pan-Africanism, nationalism, independence) often intersected with a cultural counterpart (Creolism, Diepalism, Negritude, the Harlem Renaissance). Cross-fertilizing. Like the largest number of UNIA chapters during the Garvey years were in Louisiana and Cuba, corresponding to the growth of a U.S. National Negro Renaissance and a Cuban Negrismo movement also taking place. Each in their own way stood against European imperialism while uncovering the parameters of self-definition. As with the many African and Latino American poets practicing the art today, the list of folks involved back then is endless. In addition to critics, researchers and activists, like Ida B. Wells, William Monroe Trotter, Carter G. Woodson, Richard B. Moore, Alain Locke, J.A. Rogers, Zora Neale Hurston, W.E.B. DuBois, and with people like Arturo Alfonso Schomburg serving as natural bridge between the English, Spanish, French diasporic communities, the poets themselves comprised a river of personnel: Pablo Neruda, Luis Pales Matos, Jose de Diego, Nicolas Guillen, Juan Antonio Corretjer, Julia de Burgos, Clemente Soto Velez, Alfredo Miranda Archilla, Aime Cesaire, Leopold Sedor Senghor, Leon Damas, Countee Cullen, James Weldon Johnson, Langston Hughes, Claude McKay, Jean Toomer, Sterling Brown, and so many others who've not been as extensively published or read as these few. But their collective impact ushered in new forms and a continuum of literary stalwarts like Richard Wright, Margaret Walker Alexander, Gwendolyn Brooks, James Baldwin, and John Oliver Killens. Killens, by the way, along with historian John Henrik Clarke, co-founded the Harlem Writers Guild, the one group that definitively bridged the Harlem Renaissance of the '20s/'30s with the 1960s Black Arts Movement and the 1970s Nuyorican Poetry Phenomenon. Those who workshopped alongside Killens, in or out of the Guild, include at least two generations of dramatists (Lonnie Elder III, Loften Mitchell, Charles Russell, Douglas Turner Ward, Ossie Davis), fiction writers (Alice Childress, Rosa Guy, Piri Thomas, Maya Angelou, Louise Merriwhether, Sarah E. Wright, Richard Perry, Doris Jean Austin, Brenda Connor-Bey, Elizabeth Nunez Harrell, Nicholasa Mohr, Brenda Wilkerson, Arthur Flowers), poets and lyricists (Mari Evans, BJ Ashanti, Askia Muhammad Toure, Mervyn Taylor, Thulani Davis, Ntozake Shange, Fatisha, and Irving Burgie --the one who wrote most of the British Caribbean songs that first made Harry Belafonte famous). With the Black Arts Movement, the proverbial Pushkin spark turned into flame as the 1966 National Black Writers Conference at Fisk University (organized by Killens) gave cognizance to what had already been taking place; thus we have the new poet-theoreticians, like Amiri Baraka and Larry Neal, Askia Toure, Ishmael Reed, Audre Lorde, Henry Dumas, alongside new critics, like Addison Gayle and Hoyt Fuller, new venues, like Umbra, Cannon Reed & Johnson, or the Watts Writers Workshop, through which Jayne Cortez and Quincy Troupe had developed their skills, or like Detroit-based Dudley Randall, through whose publishing efforts began the careers of Haki Madhubuti, Carolyn Rodgers, Sonia Sanchez. Like The Last Poets, many of them were as influenced by Malcolm X as by Martin Luther King, Langston Hughes, Margaret Walker, Paul Robeson and DuBois. By the late 1960s, Victor Hernandez Cruz, Jesus Papoleto Melendez and Felipe Luciano became the latest spanning between African American and Puerto Rican literature that had been previously bridged by the likes of Schomburg, Guillen and Jesus Colon. As the 1970s took off, a Nuyorican mix began its own sidestream fruition to both African American and Puerto Rican orthodoxy. Spanglish took its place beside AfroAmericanese as a new idiom, with poets Miguel Algarin, Lorraine Sutton, Americo Casiano, Miguel Pinero, Sandra Maria Esteves, Julio Marzan, Lucky Cienfuegos, Roberto Marquez, Jose Angel Figueroa, Tato Laviera, Noel Rico, Magdalena Gomez, Susana Cabanas and Pedro Pietri serving as initial progenitors to another poetic sensibility. Its availability and earned place has often been hindered by Anglo arrogance and Hispanophilia, caught, as these poets were, between an evolving aesthetic-in-exile influenced by Ebonics on the mainland and an active insular and extremely cultural nationalism in Puerto Rico that at first refused to even recognize this hybrid created out of U.S. colonialism. During this same period, from the late 1960s straight into the 1980s, the tradition of small press and self-publishing (traceable to the 1730s, when Europe began allowing colonies to own printing presses) had expanded into roughly 1,000 independent magazines and publishing outlets under the influence or control of African and Latino Americans: Freedomways, Journal of Black Poetry, Hambone, Callaloo, Literati Chicago, The Rican Journal, Third World Press, Third Press, Quinto del Sol, Black Classics Press, Yardbird Reader, Mango Publications, Arte Publico Press, Black World/First World, Poettential Unlimited, Shamal Books, Bola Press, Kitchen Table Press, Single Action Productions, Blind Beggar Press, Drum Voices Revue, Harlem River Press, just to name a few. Thus, sandwiched between the Black Arts Movement and the rise of Hip Hop is a linking generation of African and Latino American poets, producers and publishers who had come into their own (and many of them by the mid-1970s) to serve as the latest bridge connecting the continuum of an hemispheric African American literary canon. These were the students of Malcolm and Martin and H. Rap Brown, entering the new decade with their own resolve, reading, performing and organizing everywhere: in prisons, community centers, cafes, in homes and on the streets, at Kwanzaa festivals and Malcolm X commemoration programs, at political rallies and in the schools. These sidestream stalwarts, most abundant in places like New York, were the immediate parents of those who would later become Rap and Spoken Word (Chuck D., Reg E. Gaines, Bruce George) Artists. They had entered the '70s knowing that the major publishing outlets had already slammed its doors on Black Literature. Thus, they became the generation that had proliferated the publishing world with their own gumption, giving rise to, if not solidifying the careers of an Alice Walker, a Toni Morrison and an Ntozake Shange. Poets-publishers-organizers who did the basework while working a 9-to-5, raising a family, studying and performing their craft. In New York City alone, these included Yusef Waliyaya from The East's African Street festivals, John Branch from the Afrikan Poetry Theatre, Rich Bartee of Poettential Unlmtd., Lois Elaine Griffith of the Nuyorican Poets Cafe, George Edward Tait of the Afrikan Functional Theatre, Gary Johnston and C.D. Grant of Blind Beggar Press, Layding Kaliba now with African Voices, Barbara Smith of Kitchen Table Press, Abu Muhammad of Nubian Blues magazine, Glen Thompson of Harlem River Press. From them and through them, such poets as Safiya Henderson-Holmes, Akua Lezli Hope, Zizwe Ngafua, Dawad Philip, B.J. Ashanti, Ted Wilson and many others previously mentioned either began or continued finding outlets for their works to appear in print. Meanwhile, music and poetry never did finalize the divorce Euro-Americans insisted upon. Not only were Hughes and Hurston experimenting with the "jazz poem" and the intonations of northern and southern folklore back in the 1930s, but from the BeBop and Afro-Cuban Jazz era straight through to the present Rap/Spoken Word epoch, musicians and poets have consistently uncovered the African tradition of incorporating sound and sense into a wholistic art form. Literature, music and dance. Louis Armstrong, Sun Ra, Charlie Mingus, King Pleasure, Slim (Gailliard) & Slam (Stewart), Alvin Ailey had all eloquently continued that course. Singers Eddie Jefferson, Jon Hendricks, Oscar Brown, Jr., and, of course, Nina Simone, had long ago fused poetry into the jazz voice (Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit was actually a poem someone had given her). Of equal significance is the immediate link to Rap and Spoken Word, musicians Weldon Irvine, Ahmed Abdullah and Oliver Lake, like their literary counterparts, The Last Poets, Jayne Cortez, Sekou Sundiata, Tom Mitchelson, Yusef Waliyaya, Cheryl Byron, Atiba Kwabena Wilson, Ngoma Hill, each in their turn, have preceded Sharif Simmons, UniVerses, 2nd To Last, etc., in fusing the poem with the idioms of music and dance. And so the insistence that music and word are inseparable elements to the voice raising up and rising up comes full circle inside the currents of modern poetics. It's part of an ongoing continuum in constant evolution, an unfinished renaissance establishing its own parameters on its own terms. Like Sterling Brown once posed, "If it took Europe 300 years to unfold its renaissance, what makes you think that we can do it in six?" And while it is homegrown North American, it is also cross-rooted in an African and Caribbean experience. ---------------------------- Poet Louis Reyes Rivera is a professor of African American, Puerto Rican and Caribbean Literature and History; his latest collection, Scattered Scripture, won the 1997 Poetry Award from the Latin American Writers' Institute. He can be reached at Louisreyesrivera@aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:31:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG internships available (for University of Arizona students): SUMMER 2002, FALL 2002 Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit POG internships POG (Poetry Group) is a collective of writers, artists, publishers, professors, students, and others engaged in promoting the avant-garde art scene in Tucson. At present POG^Òs principal activity is Poetry in Action, a public art event series committed to crossing boundaries. Poetry in Action events, at such sites as Dinnerware Gallery, Orts Dance Theatre, and Las Artes Studios, typically pair a poet with a visual or musical artist, a local writer or artist with a visiting one, and a well-known figure with a younger, emergent one. POG interns will work on several facets of POG^Òs programming (mostly for Poetry in Action), possibly including: --contacting visiting poets and other visiting artists and arranging the details of their visits --working with POG members to put together a comfortable visit for our visiting artists (who are typically in Tucson for 2-3 days) --spending some time with visiting artists while they are in Tucson (as part of our ^Óhosting^Ô activities) --helping with site set up and event logistics --helping to organize the annual benefit fund-raising dinner --working on the bi-annual POG anthology --helping to locate possible sources of additional funding for POG (grants, corporate sponsors) --helping to put together publicity materials During FALL and SPRING semesters POG will likely have two student interns. One SUMMER internship will also be available. It^Òs not necessary for all interns to work on all the above activities. So if you^Òre interested in some of them but not all, it^Òs still worth applying. It would be very helpful for at least one intern to possess the following computer-related skills and requisite technology: ability to receive and send email ^Óattachments^Ô (attached document files) from home computer (this can^Òt currently be done from a ^Óu.arizona.edu^Ô account) --ability to work with files in Microsoft Office 2000 format (especially Word, Excel, and Access) --regular internet access --ability to do basic layout for fliers and brochures. Interns are not paid but receive academic credit through the UA English Department. For further information or to apply now for SUMMER 2002 or FALL 2002 contact: Tenney Nathanson Department of English 296-6416 mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net or mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu or, for additional information, you can contact current pog interns: Andrew Milward mailto:a_milward@HOTMAIL.COM Kim Cronin mailto:kimscronin@YAHOO.COM David Ellis mailto:davino2000@ureach.com ****************************************************************** mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:08:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: TONIGHT AT THE POETRY PROJECT Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit JOHN ASHBERY AND JOE BRAINARD'S THE VERMONT NOTEBOOK WEDNESDAY, APRIL 24, 8:00 PM Readings from The Vermont Notebook by JOHN ASHBERY, ANSELM BERRIGAN, and ELAINE EQUI accompanied by slide projections of Joe Brainard's drawings will celebrate Granary Book's republication of this Ashbery/Brainard classic. Reception to follow. [$7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Tickets will be sold at the Main Box one half hour before event.] * * * * * * * * * * * To commemorate the evening's celebration, The Poetry Project will be offering a signed, limited-edition broadside. Measuring 19 x 15 and printed in a letterpress edition, the broadside will sell for $75 until May 1st, $100 thereafter. Sales from the edition will benefit the Poetry Project. To purchase a broadside, send check or money order to: The Poetry Project 131 E. 10th St. New York, NY 10003 * * * * * * * * * * * The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. Trains F, 6, N, R. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:29:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: beating the dead horse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i first encountered language poetry though an understanding of it as a conceptual and formal de-investment of the referent, words no longer pointed to things, only to more words, prisonhouse, panopticon, etc... and as a critique of capitalist tendencies in the hierarchical/hegemonic structure of language and logic, the ownership of meaning. this is most likely a ballpark estimation, however i think most of these answers about LP are correct. one place LP fails is in terms of content. language as material for content starts to produce the similar types of writing which many have picked up on and imitated. i know i was guilty of it. the method of investigation though, and the questions LP asked of language, are good ones for anyone writing poetry, whether or not they agree with the practitioners, praxis, of the writers doing the asking. just another two cents. J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Bell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 3:03 PM Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? > it was just a random thought but maybe there's a glimmer in it? in my > perception LP began, at least in some ways, as an examination with the > poetry that existed at he time and wasn't "working" along with language > (scientific, commercial, 'philosophical') that wasn't "working". > > For the most part "attacks" on LP in my perception have been a combination > of defensive protection of the status quo and envious wannabe and this ends > in a circular dichotomy. > > atthe same time over the years since LP's "birth" there are signs of a need > for and acceptance of altered perceptions in both spheres so the question > for me is whether it might not be more productive to examine the spheres > separately (not necessarily in isolation from each other)? > > For example in the language sphere it is becoming increasingly clear that in > medicine, for example, the old mind/body way of thinking (body/mind more > appropriately) doesn't cut it any moreand this has progressed to such a > degree that establishment gastroenterologists have begun to doubt Descarte. > This is a rather specialized instance but I think there are others and the > questiob for me is does LP offer them anything? i suspect it does but > haven't figured it out. > > In the poetics sphere a similar phenomenon is in processbut it might be > more productively examined in at least semi-isolation from the language and > philosophical stuff. > > i know thie suggestion is anathema to the LP 'pioneers' who wed the two > spheres in the first place but I think it merits consideration and > discussion? > > tom bell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:19 AM > Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? > > > > Say what? > > > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:48:54, Thomas Bell wrote: > > > > > It might be more productive to ask > > > > > > What is language? > > > > > > What is poetry? > > > > > > tom bell > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Tell Her -- the page I never wrote! > > Tell Her, I only said -- the Syntax -- > > And left the Verb and the Pronoun -- out! > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:54:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: <003b01c1ebd3$7f56b420$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Gastroenterologists, you're saying, can't swallow Descartes? But can they swallow the horse? Language poetry as an entity was established by a bunch of very young poets who were still very close to the classroom, hence, I think, their critical vocabulary. It would have been difficult at the time to find a lot of poets who were not, say, of the Auden to Wilbur to Plath lineage who would have disagreed too strongly with "...we have emphasized a spectrum of writing that places its attention primarily on language and ways of making meaning, that takes for granted neither vocabulary, grammar, process, shape, syntax, program, or subject matter..." I was there bat the time, and a bit older than most of the first self-identified Language Poets. It's not a bad thing banding together to market one's poetry, and that's what most group identities are fore, whether it's the Pleiade, the sureealists or the objectivists, but it might be good to remember that that's one of the primary functions of such groupings, although the young, narcissistic as we all tend to be at that age, sometimes do forget this. What's important is not the identification but the quality, and no amount of critical apparatus can take its place. And several of those poets were and became very fine poets indeed, and poets from whom younger poets learn. But for the life of me I can't see in the poetry itself a unifying thread running through the entire group that differentiates them from the rest of non-mainstream (as defined above) practice in any consistent way. They're just too different from each other and too much a part of a much larger collection. OK, back to my hole. Mark >For example in the language sphere it is becoming increasingly clear that in >medicine, for example, the old mind/body way of thinking (body/mind more >appropriately) doesn't cut it any moreand this has progressed to such a >degree that establishment gastroenterologists have begun to doubt Descarte. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:03:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020424134028.02a60828@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Mark Weiss says: Gastroenterologists, you're saying, can't swallow Descartes? But can they swallow the horse? I reply: Depends on which one they put before which one, I should think. --JGallaher ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:04:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I always link of the language® poets as the crowd who published in l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e, just like the poetry project crowd or the sulfur crowd who published in their respective publications ...convivial fraternal assemblages. mIEKAL Mark Weiss wrote: > > But for the life of me I can't see in the poetry itself a unifying thread > running through the entire group that differentiates them from the rest of > non-mainstream (as defined above) practice in any consistent way. They're > just too different from each other and too much a part of a much larger > collection. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:20:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: oranget@GEORGETOWN.EDU Subject: coolidge blurb citation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anyone by any chance have the citation for the village voice review of clark coolidge's crystal text and solution passage that appeared subsequently on the back cover blurb for sound as thought? the review reads in part: "Either of these books by itself would be a peak; to be given both at once seems a natural wonder." much thanks, tom orange ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:16:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Actually this is real, The story is in _Gut_ last year I think. _Gut is oje of those massive international journals in medical libraries. The title of of article is poetic: "I'm Pink, Therefore I am." tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Gallaher" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:03 PM Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? > Mark Weiss says: > > Gastroenterologists, you're saying, can't swallow Descartes? But can > they swallow the horse? > > I reply: > > Depends on which one they put before which one, I should think. > > --JGallaher ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:30:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: <3CC6D74A.21757.62E495C@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Does the polite horse remove its shoes before meals? At 04:03 PM 4/24/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Mark Weiss says: > >Gastroenterologists, you're saying, can't swallow Descartes? But can >they swallow the horse? > >I reply: > >Depends on which one they put before which one, I should think. > >--JGallaher ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:45:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: svaha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit svaha means "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the thunder" does anyone know what language this is? mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:01:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Minton Subject: new online poetry journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Word/For Word The first issue features poetry by Sheila Murphy, Richard Deming, David Pavelich, Kerri Sonnenberg, Martin Corless-Smith, William Allegrezza, and others. Submissions are welcomed for the second issue. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:10:03 +0100 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: breathe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Since I rarely read poetix in a linear sense I took Ron S's quote of the WCW poem as something to do with the notion of considering what is in front of you rather than a transpositon of something onto the subject. Which in my horizontal lifters meant, yea, the transformation of the outer to represent a hollow inner which directly related to Juliana's thing about nature. Call it rotation about the gyre of human attributes, whatever. Then I was interested in the shifting of the sonnet form to express a different form of love done by Hathaway(?) in a poem I'd read, from Italian to 6 / 8 for the stanzas, then instead of repeating back forth in a soothing rhythm, the end ryhmes should come to a head in the center like a joust. E-mail is back up now. I am not done, just behind. P.S. George-- My milk disappears when I lap. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:14:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Barr Subject: Re: svaha In-Reply-To: <3CC7278A.8ABC63BD@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" the meaning cited here is supposedly native american, but the tribe is unknown (see charles de lint). it is also sanscrit, I believe, for "so be it" and ends a lot of buddhist chants. >svaha means "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the thunder" > > >does anyone know what language this is? > > >mIEKAL -- Brandon Barr University of Rochester http://brandonbarr.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:16:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Hartman Subject: Re: svaha In-Reply-To: <3CC7278A.8ABC63BD@mwt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sanskrit? jill h. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:17:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: peter Subject: Re: svaha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as for the native american word im not really sure, but i do know that sattva means 'being' in sanskrit... it may also be that the interpretation may be tibetan. they have a tendency to infuse various contextual ritualistic meanings into simpler terms sanskrit words... sattva is pronounces svaha... the sanskrit 'vajra' is a good starting point to investigate the thunder lightening analogy. hope that helps peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Barr" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:14 pm Subject: Re: svaha > the meaning cited here is supposedly native american, but the tribe > is unknown (see charles de lint). it is also sanscrit, I believe, > for "so be it" and ends a lot of buddhist chants. > > > >svaha means "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the thunder" > > > > > >does anyone know what language this is? > > > > > >mIEKAL > > > -- > Brandon Barr > University of Rochester > http://brandonbarr.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:23:21 -0700 Reply-To: rlklee@eudoramail.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Klee Organization: QUALCOMM Eudora Web-Mail (http://www.eudoramail.com:80) Subject: Re: svaha Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:16:52 Jill Hartman wrote: >sanskrit? Gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha! (Gone, gone, gone beyond, altogether gone beyond, enlightenment, hail!) Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:14:29 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: Fwd: Appeal for the support of the delegation of the international parliament MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apologies if you've already had this message Best wishes, Pam Brown From: maison poésie > Subject: Appeal for the support of the delegation of > the international parliament > Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:07:43 GMT+1 > > Dear fellow poet > > This the appeal in English for the support of the > delegation of the international parliament of > writers. > We hope that you help diffuse it among > English-speaking > intellectuals, poets, and artists, and also reply > personally to it. > > yours the House of Poetry in Morocco > > > > > Appeal for the support of the delegation of the > international parliament of writers expressing > solidarity > with the Palestinian people. > > Following the appeal for peace in Palestine > proceeding from > the International Parliament of Writers (I.P.W) on > 26 March > 2002, a delegation was mandated by this parliament > to be in > Palestine and Israel. It consisted of the poets and > writers, Russel Banks, president (USA), Wole Soyinka > (Nigeria), José Saramago(Portugal), Bei Dao (China), > Juan > Goytisolo (spain) and Christain Salmon (France) as > well as > a number of media representatives. > > This delegation that was to meet with Israeli and > Palestinian writers and artists as well as > representatives > of civilian peace movements struggling for peace and > cultural dialogue, had as objective to break the > siege > forced on Mahmoud Darwish as well as on Palestinian > writers, poets, and intellectuals. It also aimed at > breaking the almost unanimous silence of > intellectuals all > over the world concerning the brutal military > aggression > and occupation of Palestine. The declarations and > speeches > of different speakers constituted in this respect a > great > moment in the affirmation of the values of freedom, > justice, and peace; an instant of universal > awareness of > the tragedy of the Palestinian people and its > intellectuals > in the face of the Israeli army. > > The members of the delegation condemned very > strongly the > Israeli barbarity, and denounced vigorously Israel^Òs > politics based on the occupation of Palestinian > territories, and its continuing siege of the > Palestinian > people. > > The Moroccan poets, through the House of Poetry in > Morocco, > greet this unprecedented initiative of the > International > parliament of writers; an initiative which proclaims > that > solidarity with the Palestinian people is an > expression of > the ethics deeply rooted in human conscience, and > that > intellectuals who believe in freedom should claim > before > the whole world that there is no excuse to keep > silent > about the brutal war waged on Palestinians by the > Hebrew > state. The Palestinians have not ceased admitting, > through > their legal authorities the right to existence of > the state > of Israel side by side with an independent > Palestinian > state, respectful of the laws of neighborhood > between the > two peoples. The Palestinians^Ò struggle is an > expression of > their resistance against Israeli occupation of their > territories. > > Thus we do add our voice to that of the members of > the > I.P.W, and appeal on this occasion to poets and > writers all > over the world to support the initiative of the > I.P.W, and > the declarations of the members of its delegation, > to give > up silence and condemn the Israeli politics of > aggression > against the Palestinian people, its poets, writers, > and > intellectuals who do but struggle for freedom, and > life in > an independent state. > > We invite them all to sign this appeal and address > it to > the International Parliament of writers, to the > Secretary > General of the U.N, the Chairperson of the > U.N.E.S.C.O, the > Palestinian authority, and the Israeli governement. > > The House of Poetry in Morocco > Casablanca, March 30, 2002. > > First signatories: > Adonis, Khalida Said > > ______________________________________________________ > Personnalise ton répondeur au 08 99 703 970 (*) > (*) 1,35 Euro/appel + 0,34 Euro/mn > > http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger - A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:16:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: svaha In-Reply-To: <3CC7278A.8ABC63BD@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >svaha means "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the thunder" > > >does anyone know what language this is? > > >mIEKAL English. -- George Bowering Fond of Wild Turkey Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:44:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: peter Subject: Re: svaha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [attrib. to Dineh (Navajo); provenance unverified] "The time between when you see the lightning and when you hear the thunder." Useful to describe those svaha moments when you know exactly what will happen in the next few seconds but have no way to change it. It's the feeling you have when you're at a very fancy dinner party with heirloom wineglasses on the table and you turn and feel your elbow nudge something... ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 5:16 pm Subject: Re: svaha > >svaha means "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the thunder" > > > > > >does anyone know what language this is? > > > > > >mIEKAL > > English. > -- > George Bowering > Fond of Wild Turkey > Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:07:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: svaha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/24/02 5:53:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dtv@MWT.NET writes: > > > > > > svaha means "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the thunder" > > > does anyone know what language this is? > > > mIEKAL > I don't know about other languages. but... In Sanskrit [Sanscrit if you are old, and rather French], there is a ritual cry svaahaa [-aa- representing a long -a-]. It punctuates many Vedic ritual moments [e.g., sacrifices], and basically functions as a mantra. We don't know the etymology and precise sense of this word. The best bet is that it means something like "hail, power to you." So it doesn't really mean "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the thunder" -- although it might be something that one might say during such a time. I'm curious to know where you got the idea that it meant this. George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:26:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Fwd: put up your dukes it's LOS ANGELES versus SAN FRANCISCO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Sunday, May 5th ~ at Amnesia on Valencia~ get ready for >LOS ANGELES vs. SAN FRANCISCO >fighting for Los Angeles, land of smog and Angeline, it's >Cunning Clint Catalyst, author of Cottonmouth Kisses! >Conniving Craig Curtis, author of Fabulous Hell! >Provocative Pleasant Gehman, author of Escape from Houdini Mountain! >and Shameless Shauna Kenney, author of I Was a Teenage Dominatrix! >fighting for San Francisco, land of fog and those creepy old lady twins, it's >Dastardly Dodie Bellamy, author of Cunt-Ups! >Bombastic Cooper Lee Bombardier! >Evil Erika Lopez, author of Hoochie Mama: The Other White Meat! >and Avaricious Alvin Orloff, author of I Married an Earthling! >with ringmaster Michelle Tea >doors 8:30/show 9:00 sharp ~ $5.00 ~ come from K'Vetch and get a dollar off! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:42:51 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Impovised Language Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I improivsed a language poem but it disappeared somewhere. Here it is = again: End of poem. Warm regards all, Richard. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:18:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: What Is? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Barrett Watten >Subject: What Is? > >First, what kind of question is being asked? Some analogies: what is >surrealism, what is poetry, what is pornography, what is art, what is >language. It seems to me that the way question is raised, an aspect of all >these could be involved: a historical movement or literary tendency vs. >stylistic attributes or other objective descriptors; a genre; a legal >definition subject to "community standards"; that which we all agree is X; >an object of study or a means of communication. > >And yet I think there is a distinct kind of journalistic worrying over the >issue--something like How do I explain this to someone who has never heard >of it, and does that make either me or him/her legitimate or >illegitimate--that continually circles around the same null point. Perhaps >Language poetry is very good at evoking that null point, which then becomes >a part of its reception. I would rather it be seen in precisely the >opposite sense--a set of particular and decisive options. I don't want to be so quick to dismiss such "journalistic worrying," because I think it is also a _practical_ worrying: that is, a worrying centered around praxis in a given community, or in a set of possible communities awaiting determination. One effect of Langpo has certainly been to make this issue of community's relation to (individual) praxis more crucial than ever, and to make concerns such as How to Explain a Given Poetics to the Uninitiated very relevant concerns. Thus, I don't think even a basic question like "what is Langpo" can ever be reduced to a "null point," even if the same reductions and distortions are inevitably rehearsed in the ongoing head-scratching and mumbled replies. Of course there is going to be dumb repetition and wrongheaded misprision, but that's always part of any extended polylogue. In fact, I wonder if we don't _need_ the noise and static as an essential element of the social demonstration performed by language-centered writing's reception, transmission, and recycling: if its "tenets" were ever received as transparent, final dicta or definitions, this would suggest that one should be able to go back and "translate" the work to reveal where exactly such ultimate interpretations and prescriptions were encoded. Barrett, it seems to me that that's similar to what you're saying in saying "styles and descriptions ... don't just fragment into the same problem of language or signification." The way I read much Langpo, it is far too indebted to the ludic methods of earlier movements like NYS, surrealism, etc., to be fragmented (collapsed?) in that way. (And I'm aware that to make such a connection goes against the implicit or explicit claims of some of the founding fathers/mothers that Langpo signals a _break_ with what they see as the anti-intellectual, anti-analytic principles behind those earlier movements, but I see it nonetheless.) >I'm aware of a lot of spinning around this issue, but also a number, by >now, of very concrete positions for thinking the question through. And it >can be surprising that few of these positions are ever a part of the >debate. There is more often than not an aura of collective crisis about the >discussion--if that is or was Language poetry, what am I doing, what is my >relation to it? The more particular the answer to the first half of the >question, the worse it is for the latter. I'll get back to the "concrete positions"--at least one of them--but first, I find myself unable to read fully between the lines of your assessment of this "collective crisis": are you saying it's a pointless crisis to be having? or are you saying that it's a genuine cause for concern, but that people are going about addressing it in the wrong ways? or something else entirely? I think the difficulty I'm having in gauging _affect_ here is the most frequent aporia I encounter in reading your criticism generally (including "Secret History"), which may be part of your intention, and which in fact is part of what makes your criticism fascinating to me: that emotional impenetrability. Or even _positional_ impenetrability. So my asking you this question may be very naive, like asking Shandu to explain where the rabbit comes from (or disappears to). But you must see that one big reason that people continue the debate as though you had "never said a blessed thing" is that the "concreteness" of your position is nowhere near as obvious as you would have it! It's been a few months since I looked at "Secret History" carefully, but _is_ there really an "answer" to the question in question there? I remember it as being more about the nature of collaboration and community politics than about what distinguishes Langpo per se. I'm not saying it _should_ be about the latter, but in terms of your comments on the list, you sound like you're suggesting that the elements for a substantial grounding are contained therein. I haven't read Ben's article, but will find myself a copy. You do ask a question that I think is valid and important: why don't the many published accounts out there enter into these discussions more often? Two possible answers come to mind. One is that the nature of academic critical circulation is such that people--especially people not affiliated with any university that has a good library--often only come into contact with these materials in dribs and drabs if at all. The web is changing this, of course, but there is still some restriction of access to key texts involved here. Second, despite what I've just said, these arguments _do_ enter into the discussions, I think (and I assume we're talking about positions published by people like McGann, Perloff, Hartley, Kim, Spahr, etc.), albeit mixed and jumbled and filtered through people's all-too-human and fallible memories of many years' worth of past reading. If the list were a refereed journal, the imprecision and abstraction would be more alarming; but this is an _e-mail list_, and part of the attraction to such a list, in my opinion, is that people can have something like the kind of impromptu discussions they have in the hall with colleagues, students, and teachers. In such discussions, being off-book as it were, you get to see how squishy human minds really process this stuff, in the soup, in the act of daily living (or _fail_ to process it, which may be significant in itself). I'd wager that many (tho not all) people who ramble on the list will produce very cogent and well-documented positions when writing in a more formal context. Obviously that's where you want to go for obsessive consistency, inclusiveness, and retention; here, isn't the idea just to get a forum going? Of course, just like at a "real" forum, there's always someone like you who speaks up and demands intellectual integrity, so.... And once again, I share your frustration at the way what should be exhausted topics have to be rehearsed again and again and again. But I suspect that with every recycling, some nuance emerges that might not have been visible before, and there are people coming to this topic for the first time who can never come at from exactly the same perspective as those who were in on the inception. Movements get blurry over time, and what might now seem like an imperfect distortion of an original idea may actually be the necessary diffusion of past occurrences through a present lens--"necessary" both in the sense of "inevitable tho regrettable," and in the sense of "needed in order to make some timely adjustment." That may sound like an idealistic apology for weak theorizing, but I don't think it is entirely. But after all that, yes--how about it? Is there a comprehensive bibliography available anywhere? In Ben's article, perhaps? On the EPC site? Kasey ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:19:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: coolidge blurb citation In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe the reviewer's name was Geoffrey O'Brien -- who is not, I think, the same Geoffrey G. O'Brien who recently published a book of poems in UC's New California Poets series. It's been a while since I've seen his byline in the Voice, though, so you might want to check with someone who has less of a hearsay relationship to the archive. Taylor On Wednesday, April 24, 2002, at 02:20 PM, oranget@GEORGETOWN.EDU wrote: > anyone by any chance have the citation for the village voice review of > clark coolidge's crystal text and solution passage that appeared > subsequently on the back cover blurb for sound as thought? the review > reads in part: "Either of these books by itself would be a peak; to be > given both at once seems a natural wonder." > > much thanks, > tom orange > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:28:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: "Language Poetry is"...? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Language poetry is the biggest trend I see, experimental writing. Language poetry is a movement of convincing authority in contemporary poetics. Language poetry is held out to be one of the poetic modes of the present moment. Language poetry is about going beyond the boundaries of traditional / conventional language usage. Language poetry is one in which there is a number of established poets operating in diverse ways. Language poetry is diverse, including a selection of poems by women. Language poetry is in its heyday. The galvanizing force has been the regularly scheduled poetry. Language poetry is impressive. Language poetry is the highest form of language. Language poetry is not the entire solution to keeping the nation's language clear and honest. Language poetry is neither genre nor movement. Language poetry is there as a backdrop. Language poetry is constructed as a niche market. Language poetry is academy-ready. The founders of the Language movement were interested in ideas. Language poetry is also often seen as elitist because it never dealt adequately with issues. Language poetry is concerned, then, with what it is to be radical in theory. Language poetry is a puppet-show, where riders of skyrockets and divers of sea fathoms.... Language poetry is a special type of language that attempts to express the inexpressible. It is not the pragmatic. Language poetry is highly personal, intellectual and stylistically radical. Language poetry is vibrant. Language poetry is seen as political act in the deepest sense. This poetry is accessible to an American audience. Language poetry is a way to make sense of the world. I never really know what I think. Language poetry is more than this. Language poetry also takes the form of statement and declaration. Language poetry is first of all speaking with listening? a peculiar state that is somehow self. Language poetry is a particularly American phenomenon that borrows from European traditions and theories. Language poetry is no harder to "get" than Cubism. Language poetry is twenty years old. Language poetry is blessed by Rosmarie Waldrop. Language poetry is a way of expression open to anyone who chooses to use it. Language poetry is central to existence, to the real lives of real people. Language poetry is the passion of language and children enjoy that as well. Language poetry is the language for expressing emotions, as we know. Language poetry is about making language happen. Language poetry is redemptive. Language poetry is what gets lost in translation. Language poetry is not an attempt to obscure meaning through ambiguity. Language poetry is, as Stevens put it, the difference between the and an. Language poetry is Jacob's ladder for me: a place where earth and spirit connect. Language poetry is our basic connection between our sense of self and the cosmos. Language poetry is in for one helluva ride, I would think! Language poetry is more visual in Chinese and Japanese than it is oral. Language poetry is often intended to be read on the page, but there are many poems. Language poetry is undoubtedly the most self-critical--in the sense of self promotion. Language poetry is also better than prose at shaping small subjects to create intimate feeling. Language poetry is much more philosophically-based, and I think my poems are still strongly rooted. Language poetry is both concise and precise, two of the most important elements. Language poetry is best served when it attacks not language itself (give me a good clause). Language poetry is built of nothing but words, and must use what it finds to hand. Language poetry is wordplay, without the play. Language poetry is normally recited. Language poetry is here, alive and blooming, but with a pop-culture injection of speed. Language poetry is a perfect way to describe the blurred understanding of dreams. Language poetry is how we word ourselves across rivers we never crossed before. Language poetry is an echo asking a shadow dancer to be a partner. Language poetry is autobiographical at its fundament, even if an attempt to purge self. Language poetry is about memory and shared experiences. Language poetry, as you probably know, is.... Language poetry is in 839.8137 and a Norwegian-language novel is in 839.82. Language poetry is shit or that it is the shit--and no doubt that will be educational. Language poetry is tae hae its first owersettin intae Chinese. Language poetry is uniquely accessible to the speakers of that language. Language poetry is what survives translation, not what's lost in it. Language poetry is, what would you say? W: I don't think I would be able to explain it. Language poetry is a certain kind or quality of intellectuality, or seeming intellectuality. Language poetry is really thinking about a lot of the poetry that one has probably read. Language poetry is ordered by production rather than reproduction. The reader no longer reflects. Language poetry is a recuperation by "literature" of something that was questioning the poetic. Language poetry is a performance art form involving signing rhythm and movement. Language poetry is about moving an audience with sound and image. Language poetry is the painting of the blind, while painting is the poetry of the deaf. Language poetry is always the one you can feel more intensively. Language poetry is a very high form of linguistic intelligence. Language poetry is considered centripetal because the author tries to infuse every word. Language poetry is a type of speech. Second, song lyrics are poetry stolen back from the dull. Language poetry is a message ... a language of the old and the young. The language of the weak and the strong. The language of patriots. Language poetry is not designed basically to communicate information. Language poetry is artistic noise: it resists the dreams of pure communication. Language poetry is written in verse; that is, the lamguage which makes up the poem. Language poetry is structured in short lines and verses. Most appealing types of poetry are. Language poetry is written in iambic pentameters. Language poetry is written mostly in iambic meters. Language poetry is iambic pentameter, in which unaccented and accented syllables alternate in lines. Language poetry is essentially rhythmic and usually metrical, and it is frequently structured in stanzas. Language poetry is an art form that places a very high value on rhythm, rhyme, alliteration. Language poetry is the syllable. Most poetry in the English language is based on accentual-syllabic meter. Language poetry is subtly being replaced by the emotional difficulties of the ambiguous and confrontational. Language poetry is being explored and we are looking at the many techniques. Language poetry is the cutting edge of a sphere. Language poetry is a technology for memory and speed. Language poetry is an art, and it is common for artists to disagree. Language poetry is a particularly regular and effective tool for learning. Topics are rich. Language poetry is one way in which our pupils see words coming to life. Language poetry is the best I've found anywhere on the web. Know it, use it, love it. Language poetry is the only poetry that is language, but the term has long been used. Language poetry is above all a concentration of the power of language. Language poetry is the essence and the power of language. I think all of us are poets. Language poetry is quoted from other sources, the Writer gives new contexts to material. Language poetry is especially powerful. I think the best way to understand Language poetry is to meet some actual examples of it. Language poetry is by no means a toy in the hands of foreign rulers. Language poetry is available in English, for example, but it doesn't have the same value. Language poetry is special language. Language poetry is influenced by theory. Language poetry is not just a catch phrase to describe the words used in making poems. Language poetry is more like a group. Language poetry is poetry. Actually, poets can't do it, either. Unless you believe Language poetry is poetry. Language poetry is correlative to no object, including its own notion. Language poetry is a term I prefer not to use. Language poetry is not "literature" and is not worth wasting parchment and ink on. Language poetry is odious, is hurtful; it hijacks the word language, which belongs to all. Language poetry is misleading. Language poetry is a self-defeating fiction. Language poetry is one of the most ancient and widespread of the arts. Language poetry is an experience of referral in the place of transparent signification. Language poetry is older than prose, and abstract speech more difficult. Language poetry is a form of expression that allows our deepest soul to be portrayed to others. Language poetry is a way to say something in a way that shows love and elevates that. Language poetry is also fundamental because it speaks to the right content through language. What.... Language poetry is a transcendence of logical confinement. A wonderful wine poured into a bottle. Language poetry is good for you--a bit like eating healthy food. Recap points to consider.... Language poetry is at once deep and humorous--deeply, often darkly, humorous. Language poetry is also provided. Language poetry is also included. According to Dr Puru Sharma, it is difficult to write poems. Language poetry is the refusal to take for granted the tyranny of meaning. Language poetry is waka. Language poetry is not for everyone. They place Language poetry as a gender and class. Language poetry is not as explicitly multi-authored as web networks are, the expressive power of multiple context remains one of its main concerns. Language poetry is language. A sharp distinction in theory between rhyme and meter. Language poetry is an American phenomenon, not an Australian one. Explore its possibilities. Language poetry is usually presented in lines. Often poets express a great deal. Language poetry is not a secondary phenomenon: it has a special relation to being and truth. Language poetry is here understood as simply one of the functions that can be. Language poetry is release (Gelassenheit). Language poetry is understood to be an art of imitation: imitation with new inflections. Language poetry is flowing. A philosopher is talking to you and yet you just can not.... Language poetry is filled with this type language, but so is regular language. The dog loved.... Language poetry is lost, but meaning may become more accessible. Her luminous watercolors, as ever.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:46:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kimball Subject: Village, Vol. 13 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Volume 13, the newest of the new from The East Village: http://www.theeastvillage.com Find poems by Douglas Rothschild, Edwin Torres, Jo Ann Wasserman, Jordan Davis, Michael Farrell, Wanda Phipps, Macgregor Card, David Cameron, Chris McCreary, Todd Colby, Brenda Iijima, and Jim Behrle, along with dreamy photos by Brenda Iijima. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:49:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: svaha In-Reply-To: <000601c1ebe9$fdd2c300$de50fd0c@dharmakaya> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Of course, if you see the lightning first and then hear the thunder, it has already happened. Thunder is the confirmation. So, it's true as John of Padua, the Renaissance scholar, observed, "sotto voce...aha!" Lightning doesn't speak, it shows. This true meaning of the ancient acronym, svaha, was re-discovered under the roses by Umberto Eco in the late '40's, though he never really mentions it in much of his work, save in the Hyperreality material..and then only in a strange obscure postscript. Edmundis, in his Lexicon Lex, relates svaha to eureka (see 1 Grontius 80:37). Gene At 05:44 PM 4/24/02 -0600, you wrote: >[attrib. to Dineh (Navajo); provenance unverified] "The time between when >you see the lightning and when you hear the thunder." Useful to describe >those svaha moments when you know exactly what will happen in the next few >seconds but have no way to change it. It's the feeling you have when you're >at a very fancy dinner party with heirloom wineglasses on the table and you >turn and feel your elbow nudge something... > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "George Bowering" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 5:16 pm >Subject: Re: svaha > > > > >svaha means "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the >thunder" > > > > > > > > >does anyone know what language this is? > > > > > > > > >mIEKAL > > > > English. > > -- > > George Bowering > > Fond of Wild Turkey > > Fax 604-266-9000 > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:15:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: from cydney chadwick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Readings in New York City I'd like to go to some readings in New York while I'm in town and am hoping people will backchannel me the information. My dates in NYC are April 26th until May 1st, and I'm back in New York again on May 8th until May 13th. Thanks, Cydney Chadwick aveclivres@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:31:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: a few thoughts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'll try to pull together a response to various threads in this ongoing discussion. I'm doing this mostly from memory after having read & deleted many posts, so apologies if you feel I've misrepresented or misattributed something you said. I believe Laura Fargas asked whether anyone could articulate an aesthetic for judging which L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poems are better than others. I don't believe anyone can, in part because I read the moves to politicize poetry's formal apparatus & historicize its reception into a larger network of social relations, as a rejection of aesthetic criteria as such. (Or, the rejection of aesthetic criteria as ~primarily~ important). If you bracket off this rejection & attempt to re-aestheticize that body of work, then Language Poetry doesn't make much sense, or that is, retain the same relevance. Yet the situation is a little more complicated than that. In her post, the absense of a criterion is linked to the old saw "I know what I like." If "knowing" what you like suggests an uncritical response, I'd say that it's nearly impossible to have a coherent critical response to something as omnipresent & generic-- in the sense of its academic & cultural reception-- as "Language Poetry" has become. (Surely this was the impetus behind Kasey Mohammed's playful post, or at least as I would read it). On the other hand if she had asked, can anyone articulate why _My Life_ (for example) remains a worthwhile text, I'd bet she would have gotten dozens of thoughtful replies. Yet to turn the question on its head-- I'd like to know which of us ~doesn't~ "know what she likes." And which comes first-- the "liking" or the critical response? Who other than some poor graduate student would invest more than a pale degree of energy & attention upon some work they didn't care about? Joe Amato says that L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry must still be very relevant, & as evidence he points to all the recent posts on the subject. Well I agree, Joe, it's still relevant, but I'd also ask, is it the ~work~ that's relevant to the one posting, or the idea of the work, or its reception in one form or another. I think that Bill Austin has the last word here, when he writes, "Critics find the [LP] movement innovative. The originators are celebrated, ergo their writing ascends, not because of its aesthetic merits, but because it is valued as first." And who can argue with him, except perhaps to note some of the poets, like MacLow, Coolidge, Cage, Spicer, Stein & Zukofsky, who came before the firsts. (And yes, I'm aware that it's not the same thing as *valued* as first: a clever distinction, Bill). I'm not trying to be skeptical here-- or if I am, it is not toward the writers & writing grouped under the banner of "L=A=N=G=U=A=N=G=E Poetry," but rather toward what I'm calling here its academic & cultural reception. Ultimately, Bill's analysis is irrefutable, while it also suggests that what's most "relevant" to us may be the poetics of the Kings of the Hill. One of the problems attendant with the Kings-of-the-Hill line of thought is that it reinscribes the imperatives of economic & cultural forces we would otherwise critique, but in this case shifts the marginally favored position to some ironic heirs apparent. Winner take all: well fortunately that's ~not~ it. In the end, I like and most agree with mIEKAL's post-- just in the sense of attending to the small l's, to READING outside the conditions of institutional acceptance. Poetry-- David Hess is right-- is larger than these games; I wonder if any of us is able to articulate how & in what sense. Cheers, Mark DuCharme 'poetry because things say' ^×Bernadette Mayer http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:01:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: svaha Comments: cc: dtv@mwt.net In-Reply-To: <3CC7278A.8ABC63BD@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" sanskrit? as in om gate...parasam gate bodhi svaha! or -- or russian? (cuz i know yr dealing w/ that now...)??? At 4:45 PM -0500 4/24/02, mIEKAL aND wrote: >svaha means "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the thunder" > > >does anyone know what language this is? > > >mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:55:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow how great i feel knowing i was younger actually younger when plath was published. thanks Sheila ya' know in this cap.soc. after a broad "peeks" no "peaks" she's invisible especially at check out counters bus stop lines I'm going to get that thing Henry what's his name the NYC park comm. uses to p/u park trash and the next moron at the school bus stop that bowls over me will get a good one in the shins!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:49:27 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: rivera piece... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting, but it rather pointedly ignores black poets who wrote in "mainstream" poetic movements, or recent black poets who are published rather than on the Spoken Word scene. For example, to talk about caribbean poets without mentioning Derek Walcott (one of the only poets to win a Nobel prize who might have actually deserved it) is deliberately misleading-- shouldn't it be encouraging to caribbean or afro-americans that someone poor from a small idsland (st. lucia) could go that far? But Walcott is a very classically educated poet, his big book is about the Odyssey, and it doesn't fit what black poets (I guess) should be writing, even though it uses the as characters the people of his island and their dialect and culture. I think the book, "Omeros," is amazing because it manages to be about Homer and be very formal and fine-tuned and yet it paints a picture of a people we win america can barely imagine, and seing the high passion amongst these fishermen is a radical statement. He could also have mentioned Komunykaa (but he's in the establishment, teaches at Princeton, and his latest book "Talking Dirty to the Gods" is not very Black), or Clarence Major (not black enough). Then for the present there are a whole bunch of interesting poets, ones who are interesting for various reasoins, many of whom do not "sound black" in the way of the Spoken Word Poets (whom incidentally I like, and I go to the Nuyorican sometimes to hear them) (but (and some who do-- most who do sound black for the honest reason that they are writing poems about themselves and people they know, who are black, not that they feel obliged to sound black. Somehow I think some proponents of black literature want it to be a unified thing with the same voice, viz, the black voice, which I don't understand. White poets are allowed to sound different from each other-- why should all black poets sound like Langston Hughes modernized? Especially since Black people sound totally different from each other (as one would expect), it is strange to think they'd share a poetic voice. They tend to at the Spoken Word events, but that isn't because they are black poets, it is because the Nuyoricans are a bit of a clique (as are, the language poets for that matter) and to be successful on that scene you have to sound a certain way. For example Thylias Moss' "Small Congregations" could be "of afro-american interest" because it is a lot about her childhood and people she knew, but there are hints she wants to be a poet, not a black poet who sounds white, certainly not, but a poet who has her own language. In "Last Chance for the Tarzan Holler" you can't tell she is black, and I bought this book first and indeed did not know she was black until I got to a poem at the end of the book which is about a black girl being told she can't write a paper on the Holocaust because it is none of her business and she can only write about slavery. Other examples of black poets who deserve to be read because they are poets but aren't particularly "black" are Claudia Rankine and Haryette Mullen. I like Cornelius Eady, too, maybe he is more what Rivera has in mind as a black poet, but I don't think so. His latest book has to do with a race issue (very imaginatively, it's not a nuyorican angry thing, more of a thought experiment), but he writes traditional, grammatical, properly spelled, free verse. I don't know why he didn't mention Quincy Troupe. His book "Choruses" would be a natural spoken word-type text. Millie (who had always questioned the whole idea of afro-ameriucan studies and thought it was stupid until, meeting a black person who was interested in poetry, I decided I wanted to read some poetry by black people. I knew very few back poets then, but hopefully went to Barnes & Noble in search of them and more. There were essentially no black poets! And I had thought that everywhere you looked there was a black poet, a sense I got from college where we had to study some "politically correct" subject (I had chosen women, but many people chose afro american literature, and I thought that everyone was talking about it...so why wasn't it at B&N?) I also didn't like some of the black poetry I ran into in college ; it seemed to me special allowances were being made for people who were minorities (or women, and I am a woman & I know I got higher praise because I was a woman). I thought black poetry was all like Shange, which I don't like (except for the title of "for colored girls..." which I thhink is brilliant) But anyway, there I was at B&N and there were NO BLACK POETS. Nor were there any decent anthologies of black poets. (There were some that went back to Phyllis Wheatley, but I wanted contempoaray poets to read, like the other poets I read... I just felt I had been neglecting black poets in my reading. Now that I saw that the bookstore also didn't have them, I blamed myself less-- after all, I'd have to buy the books somewhere... So I went to an independent bookstore. Presto! Black poets in surfeit, on every shelf, at least one or two. Most were not to my liking of course, but I found some who were real finds (the ones I list above oter than Walcott, whom I have been reading for years). But it occurred to me that most people had only B&N and that the poets were not earning much money if the Barnes & Noble didn't carry their works. I mean, poets earn next to nothing anyway. But having their works be unavailable for most people seemed unfair and probably discriminatory in some way. So I have changed my mind about afro american studies departments. I saw a really subtle, minor (becuase it affects onlky poets) way in which blackness seriously messes up your career no matter how good you are. And I gather from this experience that there are many other ways in which black people are discriminated against and I hope these afro american studies students graduate and fight against this stuff, especially for poets... Millie www.sporkworld.org -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Joe Amato Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:11 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: rivera piece... great to hear e.g. barrett's response to the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e moment as it might be effectively problematized today... re the appended: no, i'm not saying that i don't have my own problems with same... but just to introduce some different material... worth reading through, in any case... best, joe ------------- Inside the river of poetry by Louis Reyes Rivera Always there is need for song. And every human has a poem to write, a compulsion to contemplate out loud, an urge to dig out that ore of confusion locked up inside. But with the contradictions of privilege and caste, of class and gender distinctions regulating access, of those ever present distortions in textbooks with their one-sided measure of human worth, and with the culture of white man still serving as ultimate yardstick to what is acceptable as matter, not everyone is permitted to learn to read, much less to study poetry or hone the art and take the risk of putting one's self on paper. While wanting to be naturally soothed by self-definition, too many among us learn to rely on commercial lyricists to reflect our joy and pain. At best, we latch onto committed activists who take on as social vocation the work of bridging the human spirit with word made flesh. At worst, we fall prey to professional wordsmiths (politicians and preachers alike) who conjure up another religion that dissuades us from social contention. Somewhere in between these two extremes, we sometimes meet and break a moment's bread with poets. Today, what was once called poetry is now Spoken Word Art. Unlike the Rappers who have Hip Hopped twenty-syllable couplets into a steadfast beat, Spoken Word Artists have returned to free verse oration exhilarated by internal rhyme schemes and unfettered metaphors that speak directly to inner city blues. The news of the day, testament and affirmation, current and advanced, informs this form of poetry that outlines the immediate and understudied aspirations of African and Latino Americans caught in the crossfire between skin game caste and an ever shrinking planet of high tech advances. Desk top publishing, internet websites, tea parties and Open Mic readings, marathon jams and poetry slams have combined to form the latest battlesites between truth and decadence. Inside the range of this contention are the new poets being pulled by and pushing against a state of confusion in search of clarity. Their names are many and they come from everywhere, like Jamaican Dub Poets in Germany and England, or Nuyorican Poets in Texas and the Bronx. To single out the more notoriously known here as comprising the new heat (like Tony Medina, Asha Bandele, Jessica Care Moore, Nzinga Chavis, Saul Williams, UniVerses, 2nd To Last, Ras Baraka), without qualification, is to commit the same crime as today's textbooks: taking a single droplet or two out of a river and making out like two droplets are the actual river itself. For just as each drop of water helps to form a river, each name dropped is but a metaphor for the many others who came before or right alongside those whose work forms our current popular canon. Poetry, you see, is as old as breath itself. For when human beings across the planet simultaneously uttered that first initial sound, they gave rise to the same echo heard in the wail of every newborn child. The sound of that cry might be onomatopoeic, but its meaning is quite literal. "I am here, now!" This is the essential affidavit that serves as testament inside every person's compulsion to give voice to the voice, as condition urges vision, vision provokes thought, and thought pronounces the name of God: "I matter, too!" Thus the birth of the word, the root of every language. Poetry. The strength of the people. The finest manifestation of craft, content and intent in every written and oral expression. The basis upon which all other literary genres have evolved. >From poetry, not only the lyric, but as well drama and narrative, the expository and the thematic, the didactic and the ideological as root to all our scripture, sacred and profane. It began as a blending of sound (the rhythm), sense (the experience), and color (the given image). A voice raised in celebration of itself. Chant and dance, music and tone, mystery and miracle forged into the embodied literature of people passing it on, by speech and sight, to each subsequent generation, asking and answering the fundamental question: How do we live? And is that the same as how we want to live or what we mean when we say there's something we're supposed to do? The Chinese call it The Way; the Buddhist, Enlightenment; the Hindu, Nirvana; the Muslim, Complete Submission to the Will of Allah; the Egyptian-Judeo-Christian, Seeking the Light; and among many Africans and Amerindians it was once referred to as Being At One With Life. And from the poets among them, it is that inner compulsion to Follow the Muse. They speak to the same cause, challenging the inner voice to maintain balance between flesh, thought, action. Thus, Poet as author of scripture and Griot as Keeper of a Narrative. Each generation, regenerated by its own voices has, since the first word heard, added to that tapestry of affirmation. In Egypt and throughout the Americas, they called it Song; in Israel, Psalms; in West Africa, Nommo; and in Greece, Poetry. It knows no borders. Unrestricted by or to genre, gender, nation, race, time or class. For in the need to contemplate, inside the compulsion to sing, and as Gylan Kain says, "to give voice to the deeper meaning of ourselves," poets learn to look upon love, life, struggle both as interchangeable terms and as the only limitations self-imposed. This is why poets are never invited to participate in televised forums, roundtable discussions and panels with other writers and speakers, journalists, politicians, social activists, academics, religious leaders. You never know what the poet will say. This is also why poetry is considered the most dangerous art form, why it is not honestly taught and thoroughly nurtured into our youth in the schools, among our adults in the factories and fields, inside our homes, churches, offices. It cannot be diluted, bought, sold, compromised or traded without treason to its beauty, its necessity, its meaning. The poet learns to care about every word. What we often view as a national literature is but one of many rivers coursing its way into the ocean of all our knowledge. In the general sense of world literature, we're supposed to bear in mind the ocean into which every river flows; with the particular local canon, however, we are actually cheated from studying all those droplets comprising both rivers and streams (the ethnic and the national), despite the fact that without them, there'd be no water to feed into that ocean. Sad to say that too many of today's Spoken Word Artists lack an understanding of their own context. So focused on the immediacy of their own moment of breath, they are not as well studied into the history and evolution of this artform for the vocation that it is. In short, they have not really read or been taught to engage the works of those who came before them. And so, this contributive note regarding the river of our poetry. African American poetry is not restricted to the United States. It is an hemispheric phenomenon as old as the dirge and the moan heard inside those first slave ships bound for the slave-breaking islands of the Caribbean, to Hispaniola and Mexico, long before they landed in Virginia. In the U.S., where drums were outlawed, it manifested as folklore, Spirituals and the Blues; in the Caribbean as Plena (Barbados), Bomba (Puerto Rico), Ska (Jamaica), with conga and steel drums, as with Merengue (Haiti) Mambo (Cuba) Calypso (Trinidad), like Samba (Brazil). With European influences setting up the parameters over form and acceptability, here or there the poem was separated from music. Thus, slave narratives grew into novels and African poetry in the Americas often took on the semblance of European meter, pace and nuance (a la Phyllis Wheatley). Today's reading rooms, soirees and poetry jams are hardly a new tradition, as they can be consistently traced back to 1888, the year that marked the end of American chattel slavery and the beginning of Negritude (both in Brazil) --during which period the children and grandchildren of slaves and runaways begin their careers as writers searching for new definition (like Charles Chestnut in fiction, Paul Lawrence Dunbar in poetry, and W.E.B. DuBois as researcher and social critic). Of course, freedmen were writing long before then. North American (John Russworm, David Walker, Frederick Douglass, Martin Delaney, William Wells Brown) and Caribbean writers (Placido, Eugenio Maria de Hostos, Ramon Emeterio Betances, Lola Rodriguez de Tio, Jose Marti) had been laying out a foundation for a literary African/American thought. But it is after 1888 that a genuine and continuing renaissance begins, as it now included all of the descendants of former slaves learning to define themselves on paper. Thus, Rag and the Blues as immediate metaphor for the thousands of artists in places like Memphis, New Orleans, Chicago, Santiago de Cuba, Le Cap and Harlem, who helped initiate a composite rebirth of African art spreading across the face of America, sometimes rolling like a teardrop, other times in denial of itself, but always from the spirit of intellect shaping its own voice. By the 1920s and early '30s, social struggle and a budding aesthetic had converged throughout the colonial world. Political movements (unionism, socialism, communism, anarchism, Pan-Africanism, nationalism, independence) often intersected with a cultural counterpart (Creolism, Diepalism, Negritude, the Harlem Renaissance). Cross-fertilizing. Like the largest number of UNIA chapters during the Garvey years were in Louisiana and Cuba, corresponding to the growth of a U.S. National Negro Renaissance and a Cuban Negrismo movement also taking place. Each in their own way stood against European imperialism while uncovering the parameters of self-definition. As with the many African and Latino American poets practicing the art today, the list of folks involved back then is endless. In addition to critics, researchers and activists, like Ida B. Wells, William Monroe Trotter, Carter G. Woodson, Richard B. Moore, Alain Locke, J.A. Rogers, Zora Neale Hurston, W.E.B. DuBois, and with people like Arturo Alfonso Schomburg serving as natural bridge between the English, Spanish, French diasporic communities, the poets themselves comprised a river of personnel: Pablo Neruda, Luis Pales Matos, Jose de Diego, Nicolas Guillen, Juan Antonio Corretjer, Julia de Burgos, Clemente Soto Velez, Alfredo Miranda Archilla, Aime Cesaire, Leopold Sedor Senghor, Leon Damas, Countee Cullen, James Weldon Johnson, Langston Hughes, Claude McKay, Jean Toomer, Sterling Brown, and so many others who've not been as extensively published or read as these few. But their collective impact ushered in new forms and a continuum of literary stalwarts like Richard Wright, Margaret Walker Alexander, Gwendolyn Brooks, James Baldwin, and John Oliver Killens. Killens, by the way, along with historian John Henrik Clarke, co-founded the Harlem Writers Guild, the one group that definitively bridged the Harlem Renaissance of the '20s/'30s with the 1960s Black Arts Movement and the 1970s Nuyorican Poetry Phenomenon. Those who workshopped alongside Killens, in or out of the Guild, include at least two generations of dramatists (Lonnie Elder III, Loften Mitchell, Charles Russell, Douglas Turner Ward, Ossie Davis), fiction writers (Alice Childress, Rosa Guy, Piri Thomas, Maya Angelou, Louise Merriwhether, Sarah E. Wright, Richard Perry, Doris Jean Austin, Brenda Connor-Bey, Elizabeth Nunez Harrell, Nicholasa Mohr, Brenda Wilkerson, Arthur Flowers), poets and lyricists (Mari Evans, BJ Ashanti, Askia Muhammad Toure, Mervyn Taylor, Thulani Davis, Ntozake Shange, Fatisha, and Irving Burgie --the one who wrote most of the British Caribbean songs that first made Harry Belafonte famous). With the Black Arts Movement, the proverbial Pushkin spark turned into flame as the 1966 National Black Writers Conference at Fisk University (organized by Killens) gave cognizance to what had already been taking place; thus we have the new poet-theoreticians, like Amiri Baraka and Larry Neal, Askia Toure, Ishmael Reed, Audre Lorde, Henry Dumas, alongside new critics, like Addison Gayle and Hoyt Fuller, new venues, like Umbra, Cannon Reed & Johnson, or the Watts Writers Workshop, through which Jayne Cortez and Quincy Troupe had developed their skills, or like Detroit-based Dudley Randall, through whose publishing efforts began the careers of Haki Madhubuti, Carolyn Rodgers, Sonia Sanchez. Like The Last Poets, many of them were as influenced by Malcolm X as by Martin Luther King, Langston Hughes, Margaret Walker, Paul Robeson and DuBois. By the late 1960s, Victor Hernandez Cruz, Jesus Papoleto Melendez and Felipe Luciano became the latest spanning between African American and Puerto Rican literature that had been previously bridged by the likes of Schomburg, Guillen and Jesus Colon. As the 1970s took off, a Nuyorican mix began its own sidestream fruition to both African American and Puerto Rican orthodoxy. Spanglish took its place beside AfroAmericanese as a new idiom, with poets Miguel Algarin, Lorraine Sutton, Americo Casiano, Miguel Pinero, Sandra Maria Esteves, Julio Marzan, Lucky Cienfuegos, Roberto Marquez, Jose Angel Figueroa, Tato Laviera, Noel Rico, Magdalena Gomez, Susana Cabanas and Pedro Pietri serving as initial progenitors to another poetic sensibility. Its availability and earned place has often been hindered by Anglo arrogance and Hispanophilia, caught, as these poets were, between an evolving aesthetic-in-exile influenced by Ebonics on the mainland and an active insular and extremely cultural nationalism in Puerto Rico that at first refused to even recognize this hybrid created out of U.S. colonialism. During this same period, from the late 1960s straight into the 1980s, the tradition of small press and self-publishing (traceable to the 1730s, when Europe began allowing colonies to own printing presses) had expanded into roughly 1,000 independent magazines and publishing outlets under the influence or control of African and Latino Americans: Freedomways, Journal of Black Poetry, Hambone, Callaloo, Literati Chicago, The Rican Journal, Third World Press, Third Press, Quinto del Sol, Black Classics Press, Yardbird Reader, Mango Publications, Arte Publico Press, Black World/First World, Poettential Unlimited, Shamal Books, Bola Press, Kitchen Table Press, Single Action Productions, Blind Beggar Press, Drum Voices Revue, Harlem River Press, just to name a few. Thus, sandwiched between the Black Arts Movement and the rise of Hip Hop is a linking generation of African and Latino American poets, producers and publishers who had come into their own (and many of them by the mid-1970s) to serve as the latest bridge connecting the continuum of an hemispheric African American literary canon. These were the students of Malcolm and Martin and H. Rap Brown, entering the new decade with their own resolve, reading, performing and organizing everywhere: in prisons, community centers, cafes, in homes and on the streets, at Kwanzaa festivals and Malcolm X commemoration programs, at political rallies and in the schools. These sidestream stalwarts, most abundant in places like New York, were the immediate parents of those who would later become Rap and Spoken Word (Chuck D., Reg E. Gaines, Bruce George) Artists. They had entered the '70s knowing that the major publishing outlets had already slammed its doors on Black Literature. Thus, they became the generation that had proliferated the publishing world with their own gumption, giving rise to, if not solidifying the careers of an Alice Walker, a Toni Morrison and an Ntozake Shange. Poets-publishers-organizers who did the basework while working a 9-to-5, raising a family, studying and performing their craft. In New York City alone, these included Yusef Waliyaya from The East's African Street festivals, John Branch from the Afrikan Poetry Theatre, Rich Bartee of Poettential Unlmtd., Lois Elaine Griffith of the Nuyorican Poets Cafe, George Edward Tait of the Afrikan Functional Theatre, Gary Johnston and C.D. Grant of Blind Beggar Press, Layding Kaliba now with African Voices, Barbara Smith of Kitchen Table Press, Abu Muhammad of Nubian Blues magazine, Glen Thompson of Harlem River Press. From them and through them, such poets as Safiya Henderson-Holmes, Akua Lezli Hope, Zizwe Ngafua, Dawad Philip, B.J. Ashanti, Ted Wilson and many others previously mentioned either began or continued finding outlets for their works to appear in print. Meanwhile, music and poetry never did finalize the divorce Euro-Americans insisted upon. Not only were Hughes and Hurston experimenting with the "jazz poem" and the intonations of northern and southern folklore back in the 1930s, but from the BeBop and Afro-Cuban Jazz era straight through to the present Rap/Spoken Word epoch, musicians and poets have consistently uncovered the African tradition of incorporating sound and sense into a wholistic art form. Literature, music and dance. Louis Armstrong, Sun Ra, Charlie Mingus, King Pleasure, Slim (Gailliard) & Slam (Stewart), Alvin Ailey had all eloquently continued that course. Singers Eddie Jefferson, Jon Hendricks, Oscar Brown, Jr., and, of course, Nina Simone, had long ago fused poetry into the jazz voice (Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit was actually a poem someone had given her). Of equal significance is the immediate link to Rap and Spoken Word, musicians Weldon Irvine, Ahmed Abdullah and Oliver Lake, like their literary counterparts, The Last Poets, Jayne Cortez, Sekou Sundiata, Tom Mitchelson, Yusef Waliyaya, Cheryl Byron, Atiba Kwabena Wilson, Ngoma Hill, each in their turn, have preceded Sharif Simmons, UniVerses, 2nd To Last, etc., in fusing the poem with the idioms of music and dance. And so the insistence that music and word are inseparable elements to the voice raising up and rising up comes full circle inside the currents of modern poetics. It's part of an ongoing continuum in constant evolution, an unfinished renaissance establishing its own parameters on its own terms. Like Sterling Brown once posed, "If it took Europe 300 years to unfold its renaissance, what makes you think that we can do it in six?" And while it is homegrown North American, it is also cross-rooted in an African and Caribbean experience. ---------------------------- Poet Louis Reyes Rivera is a professor of African American, Puerto Rican and Caribbean Literature and History; his latest collection, Scattered Scripture, won the 1997 Poetry Award from the Latin American Writers' Institute. He can be reached at Louisreyesrivera@aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:42:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Constructive Criticism: 8 'Nature' Poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I typed these in instead of pasting them so the jagged line breaks make it through, i think.... SHORT STORM The rain falls down in buckets in heaps and piles in clumps it disappears into the ground for all to see The gray sky floats it does not shatter it does not break it moves on lighting up the spring buds who already glow green with young electricity INVENTION That spider wove her web inside the lamp post glass near the bulb all night it 'burns' and the moths collide and the flies cry the same cry ev'ry night 'it's a trap!' AJUGA The minute purple forest suffering of hungry bees bumbling for a taste of life's new wine how old--not this place, universe how old--matter I mean or energy how old--the future safe slope is bosom then a nipple of violet ignition CONFUSION OF A DOG who attacks a rabbit nest the dug up squeals a cardboard box put some grass in the cellar it's cold put some milk in the water in this eyedropper too much the sight of them not enough all they were four I think fur and a beating heart helpless in their persistence to live is to hunt and hurt eat and believe the mother where she went fear stronger than the bond sometimes the mouth would open eyes stay closed or glaze over a sure sign two still alive after a few days try to put them near her that tree then under bushes between leaves they will crawl nowhere to their deaths THE SCORPION crawled out from the sea a long long time ago and now makes the desert its home in the sand it withstands the sun in deeply coiled burrows its nightly fluorescent shine attracts a meal it can eat many times its weight and not digest it for years it stores minerals in its stinger it's more indestructible than its wielder its poison can suffocate most anything an atomic blast, insecticide it's futile the loner can be freeze-dried and thawed out walking away like nothing happened THE LISTENER Under an azure sky we will die our warmth turning to cold And the owl's eyes and the owl's hoot that keeps watch as you fall to sleep It goes on, it leaves and returns, to escape your eyes and live in The night when you go to sleep and the owl flies awake TO KISS WITHOUT LIPS Sound of raccoons on the roof where they feed or jump around, cavort in chimneys do their raccoon thing I follow their footsteps along the gutter, I see one who sees me whiter than I expected the black mascara perfectly smeared the lovely outlaws who invade the garbage for supermarket chicken bones know what's up but don't care I wonder we stare with nothing to feed each other beyond the window pane mutual, it must be curiosity and for the moment faithful fearless disbelief THE TRAVELER The second-story window stopped the bird a yellow-bellied sapsucker I'd never seen one, had to look it up in an encyclopedia there it was, with its name (they do not give each other names that is a difference, no? without names they communicate-- stuffed it looked huddled within itself its speckled wings a shawl or shroud prepared for burial in a stomach in that sharp second a dazed look eyes askew but serene its frozen face what age and what flight to its family? perhaps it saw in the glass its reflection thus a mate or maybe prey another indoor worm squirming in neglect of its surroundings ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:52:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: rivera piece... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit seems to me to read like another attempt at defining some kind of "authenticity" of experience. he misspelled leopold sedar senghor's name by the way (though strange to mention senghor in the context of the "spoken word," given his classicism). > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Joe Amato > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:11 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: rivera piece... > > > great to hear e.g. barrett's response to the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e moment > as it might be effectively problematized today... > > re the appended: no, i'm not saying that i don't have my own > problems with same... but just to introduce some different > material... worth reading through, in any case... > > best, > > joe > > ------------- > > > Inside the river of poetry > by Louis Reyes Rivera > > > Always there is need for song. And every human has a poem to write, > a > compulsion to contemplate out loud, an urge to dig out that ore of confusion > locked up inside. But with the contradictions of privilege and caste, of > class and gender distinctions regulating access, of those ever present > distortions in textbooks with their one-sided measure of human worth, and > with the culture of white man still serving as ultimate yardstick to what is > acceptable as matter, not everyone is permitted to learn to read, much less > to study poetry or hone the art and take the risk of putting one's self on > paper. > While wanting to be naturally soothed by self-definition, too many > among us learn to rely on commercial lyricists to reflect our joy and pain. > At best, we latch onto committed activists who take on as social vocation > the > work of bridging the human spirit with word made flesh. At worst, we fall > prey to professional wordsmiths (politicians and preachers alike) who > conjure > up another religion that dissuades us from social contention. Somewhere in > between these two extremes, we sometimes meet and break a moment's bread > with > poets. > Today, what was once called poetry is now Spoken Word Art. Unlike > the > Rappers who have Hip Hopped twenty-syllable couplets into a steadfast beat, > Spoken Word Artists have returned to free verse oration exhilarated by > internal rhyme schemes and unfettered metaphors that speak directly to inner > city blues. The news of the day, testament and affirmation, current and > advanced, informs this form of poetry that outlines the immediate and > understudied aspirations of African and Latino Americans caught in the > crossfire between skin game caste and an ever shrinking planet of high tech > advances. > Desk top publishing, internet websites, tea parties and Open Mic > readings, marathon jams and poetry slams have combined to form the latest > battlesites between truth and decadence. Inside the range of this contention > are the new poets being pulled by and pushing against a state of confusion > in > search of clarity. > Their names are many and they come from everywhere, like Jamaican > Dub > Poets in Germany and England, or Nuyorican Poets in Texas and the Bronx. To > single out the more notoriously known here as comprising the new heat (like > Tony Medina, Asha Bandele, Jessica Care Moore, Nzinga Chavis, Saul Williams, > UniVerses, 2nd To Last, Ras Baraka), without qualification, is to commit the > same crime as today's textbooks: taking a single droplet or two out of a > river and making out like two droplets are the actual river itself. For just > as each drop of water helps to form a river, each name dropped is but a > metaphor for the many others who came before or right alongside those whose > work forms our current popular canon. > Poetry, you see, is as old as breath itself. For when human beings > across the planet simultaneously uttered that first initial sound, they gave > rise to the same echo heard in the wail of every newborn child. The sound of > that cry might be onomatopoeic, but its meaning is quite literal. "I am > here, > now!" This is the essential affidavit that serves as testament inside every > person's compulsion to give voice to the voice, as condition urges vision, > vision provokes thought, and thought pronounces the name of God: "I matter, > too!" > Thus the birth of the word, the root of every language. Poetry. The > strength of the people. The finest manifestation of craft, content and > intent > in every written and oral expression. The basis upon which all other > literary > genres have evolved. >From poetry, not only the lyric, but as well drama and > narrative, the expository and the thematic, the didactic and the ideological > as root to all our scripture, sacred and profane. > It began as a blending of sound (the rhythm), sense (the > experience), > and color (the given image). A voice raised in celebration of itself. Chant > and dance, music and tone, mystery and miracle forged into the embodied > literature of people passing it on, by speech and sight, to each subsequent > generation, asking and answering the fundamental question: How do we live? > And is that the same as how we want to live or what we mean when we say > there's something we're supposed to do? > The Chinese call it The Way; the Buddhist, Enlightenment; the > Hindu, > Nirvana; the Muslim, Complete Submission to the Will of Allah; the > Egyptian-Judeo-Christian, Seeking the Light; and among many Africans and > Amerindians it was once referred to as Being At One With Life. And from the > poets among them, it is that inner compulsion to Follow the Muse. They speak > to the same cause, challenging the inner voice to maintain balance between > flesh, thought, action. Thus, Poet as author of scripture and Griot as > Keeper > of a Narrative. Each generation, regenerated by its own voices has, since > the > first word heard, added to that tapestry of affirmation. In Egypt and > throughout the Americas, they called it Song; in Israel, Psalms; in West > Africa, Nommo; and in Greece, Poetry. > It knows no borders. Unrestricted by or to genre, gender, nation, > race, time or class. For in the need to contemplate, inside the compulsion > to > sing, and as Gylan Kain says, "to give voice to the deeper meaning of > ourselves," poets learn to look upon love, life, struggle both as > interchangeable terms and as the only limitations self-imposed. This is why > poets are never invited to participate in televised forums, roundtable > discussions and panels with other writers and speakers, journalists, > politicians, social activists, academics, religious leaders. You never know > what the poet will say. > This is also why poetry is considered the most dangerous art form, > why it is not honestly taught and thoroughly nurtured into our youth in the > schools, among our adults in the factories and fields, inside our homes, > churches, offices. It cannot be diluted, bought, sold, compromised or traded > without treason to its beauty, its necessity, its meaning. The poet learns > to > care about every word. > What we often view as a national literature is but one of many > rivers coursing its way into the ocean of all our knowledge. In the general > sense of world literature, we're supposed to bear in mind the ocean into > which every river flows; with the particular local canon, however, we are > actually cheated from studying all those droplets comprising both rivers and > streams (the ethnic and the national), despite the fact that without them, > there'd be no water to feed into that ocean. > Sad to say that too many of today's Spoken Word Artists lack an > understanding of their own context. So focused on the immediacy of their own > moment of breath, they are not as well studied into the history and > evolution > of this artform for the vocation that it is. In short, they have not really > read or been taught to engage the works of those who came before them. And > so, this contributive note regarding the river of our poetry. > African American poetry is not restricted to the United States. It > is > an hemispheric phenomenon as old as the dirge and the moan heard inside > those > first slave ships bound for the slave-breaking islands of the Caribbean, to > Hispaniola and Mexico, long before they landed in Virginia. In the U.S., > where drums were outlawed, it manifested as folklore, Spirituals and the > Blues; in the Caribbean as Plena (Barbados), Bomba (Puerto Rico), Ska > (Jamaica), with conga and steel drums, as with Merengue (Haiti) Mambo (Cuba) > Calypso (Trinidad), like Samba (Brazil). > With European influences setting up the parameters over form and > acceptability, here or there the poem was separated from music. Thus, slave > narratives grew into novels and African poetry in the Americas often took on > the semblance of European meter, pace and nuance (a la Phyllis Wheatley). > Today's reading rooms, soirees and poetry jams are hardly a new > tradition, as they can be consistently traced back to 1888, the year that > marked the end of American chattel slavery and the beginning of Negritude > (both in Brazil) --during which period the children and grandchildren of > slaves and runaways begin their careers as writers searching for new > definition (like Charles Chestnut in fiction, Paul Lawrence Dunbar in > poetry, > and W.E.B. DuBois as researcher and social critic). > Of course, freedmen were writing long before then. North American > (John Russworm, David Walker, Frederick Douglass, Martin Delaney, William > Wells Brown) and Caribbean writers (Placido, Eugenio Maria de Hostos, Ramon > Emeterio Betances, Lola Rodriguez de Tio, Jose Marti) had been laying out a > foundation for a literary African/American thought. But it is after 1888 > that > a genuine and continuing renaissance begins, as it now included all of the > descendants of former slaves learning to define themselves on paper. Thus, > Rag and the Blues as immediate metaphor for the thousands of artists in > places like Memphis, New Orleans, Chicago, Santiago de Cuba, Le Cap and > Harlem, who helped initiate a composite rebirth of African art spreading > across the face of America, sometimes rolling like a teardrop, other times > in > denial of itself, but always from the spirit of intellect shaping its own > voice. > By the 1920s and early '30s, social struggle and a budding > aesthetic > had converged throughout the colonial world. Political movements (unionism, > socialism, communism, anarchism, Pan-Africanism, nationalism, independence) > often intersected with a cultural counterpart (Creolism, Diepalism, > Negritude, the Harlem Renaissance). Cross-fertilizing. Like the largest > number of UNIA chapters during the Garvey years were in Louisiana and Cuba, > corresponding to the growth of a U.S. National Negro Renaissance and a Cuban > Negrismo movement also taking place. Each in their own way stood against > European imperialism while uncovering the parameters of self-definition. > As with the many African and Latino American poets practicing the > art > today, the list of folks involved back then is endless. In addition to > critics, researchers and activists, like Ida B. Wells, William Monroe > Trotter, Carter G. Woodson, Richard B. Moore, Alain Locke, J.A. Rogers, Zora > Neale Hurston, W.E.B. DuBois, and with people like Arturo Alfonso Schomburg > serving as natural bridge between the English, Spanish, French diasporic > communities, the poets themselves comprised a river of personnel: Pablo > Neruda, Luis Pales Matos, Jose de Diego, Nicolas Guillen, Juan Antonio > Corretjer, Julia de Burgos, Clemente Soto Velez, Alfredo Miranda Archilla, > Aime Cesaire, Leopold Sedor Senghor, Leon Damas, Countee Cullen, James > Weldon > Johnson, Langston Hughes, Claude McKay, Jean Toomer, Sterling Brown, and so > many others who've not been as extensively published or read as these few. > But their collective impact ushered in new forms and a continuum of literary > stalwarts like Richard Wright, Margaret Walker Alexander, Gwendolyn Brooks, > James Baldwin, and John Oliver Killens. Killens, by the way, along with > historian John Henrik Clarke, co-founded the Harlem Writers Guild, the one > group that definitively bridged the Harlem Renaissance of the '20s/'30s with > the 1960s Black Arts Movement and the 1970s Nuyorican Poetry Phenomenon. > Those who workshopped alongside Killens, in or out of the Guild, > include at least two generations of dramatists (Lonnie Elder III, Loften > Mitchell, Charles Russell, Douglas Turner Ward, Ossie Davis), fiction > writers > (Alice Childress, Rosa Guy, Piri Thomas, Maya Angelou, Louise Merriwhether, > Sarah E. Wright, Richard Perry, Doris Jean Austin, Brenda Connor-Bey, > Elizabeth Nunez Harrell, Nicholasa Mohr, Brenda Wilkerson, Arthur Flowers), > poets and lyricists (Mari Evans, BJ Ashanti, Askia Muhammad Toure, Mervyn > Taylor, Thulani Davis, Ntozake Shange, Fatisha, and Irving Burgie --the one > who wrote most of the British Caribbean songs that first made Harry > Belafonte > famous). > With the Black Arts Movement, the proverbial Pushkin spark turned > into flame as the 1966 National Black Writers Conference at Fisk University > (organized by Killens) gave cognizance to what had already been taking > place; > thus we have the new poet-theoreticians, like Amiri Baraka and Larry Neal, > Askia Toure, Ishmael Reed, Audre Lorde, Henry Dumas, alongside new critics, > like Addison Gayle and Hoyt Fuller, new venues, like Umbra, Cannon Reed & > Johnson, or the Watts Writers Workshop, through which Jayne Cortez and > Quincy > Troupe had developed their skills, or like Detroit-based Dudley Randall, > through whose publishing efforts began the careers of Haki Madhubuti, > Carolyn > Rodgers, Sonia Sanchez. Like The Last Poets, many of them were as influenced > by Malcolm X as by Martin Luther King, Langston Hughes, Margaret Walker, > Paul > Robeson and DuBois. > By the late 1960s, Victor Hernandez Cruz, Jesus Papoleto Melendez > and > Felipe Luciano became the latest spanning between African American and > Puerto > Rican literature that had been previously bridged by the likes of Schomburg, > Guillen and Jesus Colon. As the 1970s took off, a Nuyorican mix began its > own > sidestream fruition to both African American and Puerto Rican orthodoxy. > Spanglish took its place beside AfroAmericanese as a new idiom, with poets > Miguel Algarin, Lorraine Sutton, Americo Casiano, Miguel Pinero, Sandra > Maria > Esteves, Julio Marzan, Lucky Cienfuegos, Roberto Marquez, Jose Angel > Figueroa, Tato Laviera, Noel Rico, Magdalena Gomez, Susana Cabanas and Pedro > Pietri serving as initial progenitors to another poetic sensibility. Its > availability and earned place has often been hindered by Anglo arrogance and > Hispanophilia, caught, as these poets were, between an evolving > aesthetic-in-exile influenced by Ebonics on the mainland and an active > insular and extremely cultural nationalism in Puerto Rico that at first > refused to even recognize this hybrid created out of U.S. colonialism. > During this same period, from the late 1960s straight into the > 1980s, > the tradition of small press and self-publishing (traceable to the 1730s, > when Europe began allowing colonies to own printing presses) had expanded > into roughly 1,000 independent magazines and publishing outlets under the > influence or control of African and Latino Americans: Freedomways, Journal > of > Black Poetry, Hambone, Callaloo, Literati Chicago, The Rican Journal, Third > World Press, Third Press, Quinto del Sol, Black Classics Press, Yardbird > Reader, Mango Publications, Arte Publico Press, Black World/First World, > Poettential Unlimited, Shamal Books, Bola Press, Kitchen Table Press, Single > Action Productions, Blind Beggar Press, Drum Voices Revue, Harlem River > Press, just to name a few. > Thus, sandwiched between the Black Arts Movement and the rise of > Hip > Hop is a linking generation of African and Latino American poets, producers > and publishers who had come into their own (and many of them by the > mid-1970s) to serve as the latest bridge connecting the continuum of an > hemispheric African American literary canon. These were the students of > Malcolm and Martin and H. Rap Brown, entering the new decade with their own > resolve, reading, performing and organizing everywhere: in prisons, > community > centers, cafes, in homes and on the streets, at Kwanzaa festivals and > Malcolm > X commemoration programs, at political rallies and in the schools. These > sidestream stalwarts, most abundant in places like New York, were the > immediate parents of those who would later become Rap and Spoken Word (Chuck > D., Reg E. Gaines, Bruce George) Artists. > They had entered the '70s knowing that the major publishing outlets > had already slammed its doors on Black Literature. Thus, they became the > generation that had proliferated the publishing world with their own > gumption, giving rise to, if not solidifying the careers of an Alice Walker, > a Toni Morrison and an Ntozake Shange. Poets-publishers-organizers who did > the basework while working a 9-to-5, raising a family, studying and > performing their craft. In New York City alone, these included Yusef > Waliyaya > from The East's African Street festivals, John Branch from the Afrikan > Poetry > Theatre, Rich Bartee of Poettential Unlmtd., Lois Elaine Griffith of the > Nuyorican Poets Cafe, George Edward Tait of the Afrikan Functional Theatre, > Gary Johnston and C.D. Grant of Blind Beggar Press, Layding Kaliba now with > African Voices, Barbara Smith of Kitchen Table Press, Abu Muhammad of Nubian > Blues magazine, Glen Thompson of Harlem River Press. From them and through > them, such poets as Safiya Henderson-Holmes, Akua Lezli Hope, Zizwe Ngafua, > Dawad Philip, B.J. Ashanti, Ted Wilson and many others previously mentioned > either began or continued finding outlets for their works to appear in > print. > Meanwhile, music and poetry never did finalize the divorce > Euro-Americans insisted upon. Not only were Hughes and Hurston experimenting > with the "jazz poem" and the intonations of northern and southern folklore > back in the 1930s, but from the BeBop and Afro-Cuban Jazz era straight > through to the present Rap/Spoken Word epoch, musicians and poets have > consistently uncovered the African tradition of incorporating sound and > sense > into a wholistic art form. Literature, music and dance. Louis Armstrong, Sun > Ra, Charlie Mingus, King Pleasure, Slim (Gailliard) & Slam (Stewart), Alvin > Ailey had all eloquently continued that course. Singers Eddie Jefferson, Jon > Hendricks, Oscar Brown, Jr., and, of course, Nina Simone, had long ago fused > poetry into the jazz voice (Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit was actually a > poem someone had given her). > Of equal significance is the immediate link to Rap and Spoken Word, > musicians Weldon Irvine, Ahmed Abdullah and Oliver Lake, like their literary > counterparts, The Last Poets, Jayne Cortez, Sekou Sundiata, Tom Mitchelson, > Yusef Waliyaya, Cheryl Byron, Atiba Kwabena Wilson, Ngoma Hill, each in > their > turn, have preceded Sharif Simmons, UniVerses, 2nd To Last, etc., in fusing > the poem with the idioms of music and dance. > And so the insistence that music and word are inseparable elements > to > the voice raising up and rising up comes full circle inside the currents of > modern poetics. It's part of an ongoing continuum in constant evolution, an > unfinished renaissance establishing its own parameters on its own terms. > Like > Sterling Brown once posed, "If it took Europe 300 years to unfold its > renaissance, what makes you think that we can do it in six?" > And while it is homegrown North American, it is also cross-rooted > in > an African and Caribbean experience. > > ---------------------------- > Poet Louis Reyes Rivera is a professor of African American, Puerto Rican and > Caribbean Literature and History; his latest collection, Scattered > Scripture, > won the 1997 Poetry Award from the Latin American Writers' Institute. He can > be reached at Louisreyesrivera@aol.com. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:53:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: svaha In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If you look it up on google you get a lot of references inc. Native American - Alan Internet text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm CDROM of collected work 1994-2002 available: write sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:56:20 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Last Line Missing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems the last line of the last poem, "The Traveler," was rejected. It should read: ...another indoor worm squirming in neglect of its surroundings thanks, reactionary-flambe man ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:58:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: rivera piece... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit also, perhaps a more striking omission than walcott is kamau brathwaite... > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Joe Amato > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:11 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: rivera piece... > > > > > > great to hear e.g. barrett's response to the l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e moment > > as it might be effectively problematized today... > > > > re the appended: no, i'm not saying that i don't have my own > > problems with same... but just to introduce some different > > material... worth reading through, in any case... > > > > best, > > > > joe > > > > ------------- > > > > > > Inside the river of poetry > > by Louis Reyes Rivera > > > > > > Always there is need for song. And every human has a poem to > write, > > a > > compulsion to contemplate out loud, an urge to dig out that ore of > confusion > > locked up inside. But with the contradictions of privilege and caste, of > > class and gender distinctions regulating access, of those ever present > > distortions in textbooks with their one-sided measure of human worth, and > > with the culture of white man still serving as ultimate yardstick to what > is > > acceptable as matter, not everyone is permitted to learn to read, much > less > > to study poetry or hone the art and take the risk of putting one's self on > > paper. > > While wanting to be naturally soothed by self-definition, too > many > > among us learn to rely on commercial lyricists to reflect our joy and > pain. > > At best, we latch onto committed activists who take on as social vocation > > the > > work of bridging the human spirit with word made flesh. At worst, we fall > > prey to professional wordsmiths (politicians and preachers alike) who > > conjure > > up another religion that dissuades us from social contention. Somewhere in > > between these two extremes, we sometimes meet and break a moment's bread > > with > > poets. > > Today, what was once called poetry is now Spoken Word Art. Unlike > > the > > Rappers who have Hip Hopped twenty-syllable couplets into a steadfast > beat, > > Spoken Word Artists have returned to free verse oration exhilarated by > > internal rhyme schemes and unfettered metaphors that speak directly to > inner > > city blues. The news of the day, testament and affirmation, current and > > advanced, informs this form of poetry that outlines the immediate and > > understudied aspirations of African and Latino Americans caught in the > > crossfire between skin game caste and an ever shrinking planet of high > tech > > advances. > > Desk top publishing, internet websites, tea parties and Open Mic > > readings, marathon jams and poetry slams have combined to form the latest > > battlesites between truth and decadence. Inside the range of this > contention > > are the new poets being pulled by and pushing against a state of confusion > > in > > search of clarity. > > Their names are many and they come from everywhere, like Jamaican > > Dub > > Poets in Germany and England, or Nuyorican Poets in Texas and the Bronx. > To > > single out the more notoriously known here as comprising the new heat > (like > > Tony Medina, Asha Bandele, Jessica Care Moore, Nzinga Chavis, Saul > Williams, > > UniVerses, 2nd To Last, Ras Baraka), without qualification, is to commit > the > > same crime as today's textbooks: taking a single droplet or two out of a > > river and making out like two droplets are the actual river itself. For > just > > as each drop of water helps to form a river, each name dropped is but a > > metaphor for the many others who came before or right alongside those > whose > > work forms our current popular canon. > > Poetry, you see, is as old as breath itself. For when human > beings > > across the planet simultaneously uttered that first initial sound, they > gave > > rise to the same echo heard in the wail of every newborn child. The sound > of > > that cry might be onomatopoeic, but its meaning is quite literal. "I am > > here, > > now!" This is the essential affidavit that serves as testament inside > every > > person's compulsion to give voice to the voice, as condition urges vision, > > vision provokes thought, and thought pronounces the name of God: "I > matter, > > too!" > > Thus the birth of the word, the root of every language. Poetry. > The > > strength of the people. The finest manifestation of craft, content and > > intent > > in every written and oral expression. The basis upon which all other > > literary > > genres have evolved. >From poetry, not only the lyric, but as well drama > and > > narrative, the expository and the thematic, the didactic and the > ideological > > as root to all our scripture, sacred and profane. > > It began as a blending of sound (the rhythm), sense (the > > experience), > > and color (the given image). A voice raised in celebration of itself. > Chant > > and dance, music and tone, mystery and miracle forged into the embodied > > literature of people passing it on, by speech and sight, to each > subsequent > > generation, asking and answering the fundamental question: How do we live? > > And is that the same as how we want to live or what we mean when we say > > there's something we're supposed to do? > > The Chinese call it The Way; the Buddhist, Enlightenment; the > > Hindu, > > Nirvana; the Muslim, Complete Submission to the Will of Allah; the > > Egyptian-Judeo-Christian, Seeking the Light; and among many Africans and > > Amerindians it was once referred to as Being At One With Life. And from > the > > poets among them, it is that inner compulsion to Follow the Muse. They > speak > > to the same cause, challenging the inner voice to maintain balance between > > flesh, thought, action. Thus, Poet as author of scripture and Griot as > > Keeper > > of a Narrative. Each generation, regenerated by its own voices has, since > > the > > first word heard, added to that tapestry of affirmation. In Egypt and > > throughout the Americas, they called it Song; in Israel, Psalms; in West > > Africa, Nommo; and in Greece, Poetry. > > It knows no borders. Unrestricted by or to genre, gender, nation, > > race, time or class. For in the need to contemplate, inside the compulsion > > to > > sing, and as Gylan Kain says, "to give voice to the deeper meaning of > > ourselves," poets learn to look upon love, life, struggle both as > > interchangeable terms and as the only limitations self-imposed. This is > why > > poets are never invited to participate in televised forums, roundtable > > discussions and panels with other writers and speakers, journalists, > > politicians, social activists, academics, religious leaders. You never > know > > what the poet will say. > > This is also why poetry is considered the most dangerous art > form, > > why it is not honestly taught and thoroughly nurtured into our youth in > the > > schools, among our adults in the factories and fields, inside our homes, > > churches, offices. It cannot be diluted, bought, sold, compromised or > traded > > without treason to its beauty, its necessity, its meaning. The poet learns > > to > > care about every word. > > What we often view as a national literature is but one of many > > rivers coursing its way into the ocean of all our knowledge. In the > general > > sense of world literature, we're supposed to bear in mind the ocean into > > which every river flows; with the particular local canon, however, we are > > actually cheated from studying all those droplets comprising both rivers > and > > streams (the ethnic and the national), despite the fact that without them, > > there'd be no water to feed into that ocean. > > Sad to say that too many of today's Spoken Word Artists lack an > > understanding of their own context. So focused on the immediacy of their > own > > moment of breath, they are not as well studied into the history and > > evolution > > of this artform for the vocation that it is. In short, they have not > really > > read or been taught to engage the works of those who came before them. And > > so, this contributive note regarding the river of our poetry. > > African American poetry is not restricted to the United States. > It > > is > > an hemispheric phenomenon as old as the dirge and the moan heard inside > > those > > first slave ships bound for the slave-breaking islands of the Caribbean, > to > > Hispaniola and Mexico, long before they landed in Virginia. In the U.S., > > where drums were outlawed, it manifested as folklore, Spirituals and the > > Blues; in the Caribbean as Plena (Barbados), Bomba (Puerto Rico), Ska > > (Jamaica), with conga and steel drums, as with Merengue (Haiti) Mambo > (Cuba) > > Calypso (Trinidad), like Samba (Brazil). > > With European influences setting up the parameters over form and > > acceptability, here or there the poem was separated from music. Thus, > slave > > narratives grew into novels and African poetry in the Americas often took > on > > the semblance of European meter, pace and nuance (a la Phyllis Wheatley). > > Today's reading rooms, soirees and poetry jams are hardly a new > > tradition, as they can be consistently traced back to 1888, the year that > > marked the end of American chattel slavery and the beginning of Negritude > > (both in Brazil) --during which period the children and grandchildren of > > slaves and runaways begin their careers as writers searching for new > > definition (like Charles Chestnut in fiction, Paul Lawrence Dunbar in > > poetry, > > and W.E.B. DuBois as researcher and social critic). > > Of course, freedmen were writing long before then. North American > > (John Russworm, David Walker, Frederick Douglass, Martin Delaney, William > > Wells Brown) and Caribbean writers (Placido, Eugenio Maria de Hostos, > Ramon > > Emeterio Betances, Lola Rodriguez de Tio, Jose Marti) had been laying out > a > > foundation for a literary African/American thought. But it is after 1888 > > that > > a genuine and continuing renaissance begins, as it now included all of the > > descendants of former slaves learning to define themselves on paper. Thus, > > Rag and the Blues as immediate metaphor for the thousands of artists in > > places like Memphis, New Orleans, Chicago, Santiago de Cuba, Le Cap and > > Harlem, who helped initiate a composite rebirth of African art spreading > > across the face of America, sometimes rolling like a teardrop, other times > > in > > denial of itself, but always from the spirit of intellect shaping its own > > voice. > > By the 1920s and early '30s, social struggle and a budding > > aesthetic > > had converged throughout the colonial world. Political movements > (unionism, > > socialism, communism, anarchism, Pan-Africanism, nationalism, > independence) > > often intersected with a cultural counterpart (Creolism, Diepalism, > > Negritude, the Harlem Renaissance). Cross-fertilizing. Like the largest > > number of UNIA chapters during the Garvey years were in Louisiana and > Cuba, > > corresponding to the growth of a U.S. National Negro Renaissance and a > Cuban > > Negrismo movement also taking place. Each in their own way stood against > > European imperialism while uncovering the parameters of self-definition. > > As with the many African and Latino American poets practicing the > > art > > today, the list of folks involved back then is endless. In addition to > > critics, researchers and activists, like Ida B. Wells, William Monroe > > Trotter, Carter G. Woodson, Richard B. Moore, Alain Locke, J.A. Rogers, > Zora > > Neale Hurston, W.E.B. DuBois, and with people like Arturo Alfonso > Schomburg > > serving as natural bridge between the English, Spanish, French diasporic > > communities, the poets themselves comprised a river of personnel: Pablo > > Neruda, Luis Pales Matos, Jose de Diego, Nicolas Guillen, Juan Antonio > > Corretjer, Julia de Burgos, Clemente Soto Velez, Alfredo Miranda Archilla, > > Aime Cesaire, Leopold Sedor Senghor, Leon Damas, Countee Cullen, James > > Weldon > > Johnson, Langston Hughes, Claude McKay, Jean Toomer, Sterling Brown, and > so > > many others who've not been as extensively published or read as these few. > > > But their collective impact ushered in new forms and a continuum of > literary > > stalwarts like Richard Wright, Margaret Walker Alexander, Gwendolyn > Brooks, > > James Baldwin, and John Oliver Killens. Killens, by the way, along with > > historian John Henrik Clarke, co-founded the Harlem Writers Guild, the one > > group that definitively bridged the Harlem Renaissance of the '20s/'30s > with > > the 1960s Black Arts Movement and the 1970s Nuyorican Poetry Phenomenon. > > Those who workshopped alongside Killens, in or out of the Guild, > > include at least two generations of dramatists (Lonnie Elder III, Loften > > Mitchell, Charles Russell, Douglas Turner Ward, Ossie Davis), fiction > > writers > > (Alice Childress, Rosa Guy, Piri Thomas, Maya Angelou, Louise > Merriwhether, > > Sarah E. Wright, Richard Perry, Doris Jean Austin, Brenda Connor-Bey, > > Elizabeth Nunez Harrell, Nicholasa Mohr, Brenda Wilkerson, Arthur > Flowers), > > poets and lyricists (Mari Evans, BJ Ashanti, Askia Muhammad Toure, Mervyn > > Taylor, Thulani Davis, Ntozake Shange, Fatisha, and Irving Burgie --the > one > > who wrote most of the British Caribbean songs that first made Harry > > Belafonte > > famous). > > With the Black Arts Movement, the proverbial Pushkin spark turned > > into flame as the 1966 National Black Writers Conference at Fisk > University > > (organized by Killens) gave cognizance to what had already been taking > > place; > > thus we have the new poet-theoreticians, like Amiri Baraka and Larry Neal, > > Askia Toure, Ishmael Reed, Audre Lorde, Henry Dumas, alongside new > critics, > > like Addison Gayle and Hoyt Fuller, new venues, like Umbra, Cannon Reed & > > Johnson, or the Watts Writers Workshop, through which Jayne Cortez and > > Quincy > > Troupe had developed their skills, or like Detroit-based Dudley Randall, > > through whose publishing efforts began the careers of Haki Madhubuti, > > Carolyn > > Rodgers, Sonia Sanchez. Like The Last Poets, many of them were as > influenced > > by Malcolm X as by Martin Luther King, Langston Hughes, Margaret Walker, > > Paul > > Robeson and DuBois. > > By the late 1960s, Victor Hernandez Cruz, Jesus Papoleto Melendez > > and > > Felipe Luciano became the latest spanning between African American and > > Puerto > > Rican literature that had been previously bridged by the likes of > Schomburg, > > Guillen and Jesus Colon. As the 1970s took off, a Nuyorican mix began its > > own > > sidestream fruition to both African American and Puerto Rican orthodoxy. > > Spanglish took its place beside AfroAmericanese as a new idiom, with poets > > Miguel Algarin, Lorraine Sutton, Americo Casiano, Miguel Pinero, Sandra > > Maria > > Esteves, Julio Marzan, Lucky Cienfuegos, Roberto Marquez, Jose Angel > > Figueroa, Tato Laviera, Noel Rico, Magdalena Gomez, Susana Cabanas and > Pedro > > Pietri serving as initial progenitors to another poetic sensibility. Its > > availability and earned place has often been hindered by Anglo arrogance > and > > Hispanophilia, caught, as these poets were, between an evolving > > aesthetic-in-exile influenced by Ebonics on the mainland and an active > > insular and extremely cultural nationalism in Puerto Rico that at first > > refused to even recognize this hybrid created out of U.S. colonialism. > > During this same period, from the late 1960s straight into the > > 1980s, > > the tradition of small press and self-publishing (traceable to the 1730s, > > when Europe began allowing colonies to own printing presses) had expanded > > into roughly 1,000 independent magazines and publishing outlets under the > > influence or control of African and Latino Americans: Freedomways, Journal > > of > > Black Poetry, Hambone, Callaloo, Literati Chicago, The Rican Journal, > Third > > World Press, Third Press, Quinto del Sol, Black Classics Press, Yardbird > > Reader, Mango Publications, Arte Publico Press, Black World/First World, > > Poettential Unlimited, Shamal Books, Bola Press, Kitchen Table Press, > Single > > Action Productions, Blind Beggar Press, Drum Voices Revue, Harlem River > > Press, just to name a few. > > Thus, sandwiched between the Black Arts Movement and the rise of > > Hip > > Hop is a linking generation of African and Latino American poets, > producers > > and publishers who had come into their own (and many of them by the > > mid-1970s) to serve as the latest bridge connecting the continuum of an > > hemispheric African American literary canon. These were the students of > > Malcolm and Martin and H. Rap Brown, entering the new decade with their > own > > resolve, reading, performing and organizing everywhere: in prisons, > > community > > centers, cafes, in homes and on the streets, at Kwanzaa festivals and > > Malcolm > > X commemoration programs, at political rallies and in the schools. These > > sidestream stalwarts, most abundant in places like New York, were the > > immediate parents of those who would later become Rap and Spoken Word > (Chuck > > D., Reg E. Gaines, Bruce George) Artists. > > They had entered the '70s knowing that the major publishing > outlets > > had already slammed its doors on Black Literature. Thus, they became the > > generation that had proliferated the publishing world with their own > > gumption, giving rise to, if not solidifying the careers of an Alice > Walker, > > a Toni Morrison and an Ntozake Shange. Poets-publishers-organizers who did > > the basework while working a 9-to-5, raising a family, studying and > > performing their craft. In New York City alone, these included Yusef > > Waliyaya > > from The East's African Street festivals, John Branch from the Afrikan > > Poetry > > Theatre, Rich Bartee of Poettential Unlmtd., Lois Elaine Griffith of the > > Nuyorican Poets Cafe, George Edward Tait of the Afrikan Functional > Theatre, > > Gary Johnston and C.D. Grant of Blind Beggar Press, Layding Kaliba now > with > > African Voices, Barbara Smith of Kitchen Table Press, Abu Muhammad of > Nubian > > Blues magazine, Glen Thompson of Harlem River Press. From them and through > > them, such poets as Safiya Henderson-Holmes, Akua Lezli Hope, Zizwe > Ngafua, > > Dawad Philip, B.J. Ashanti, Ted Wilson and many others previously > mentioned > > either began or continued finding outlets for their works to appear in > > print. > > Meanwhile, music and poetry never did finalize the divorce > > Euro-Americans insisted upon. Not only were Hughes and Hurston > experimenting > > with the "jazz poem" and the intonations of northern and southern folklore > > back in the 1930s, but from the BeBop and Afro-Cuban Jazz era straight > > through to the present Rap/Spoken Word epoch, musicians and poets have > > consistently uncovered the African tradition of incorporating sound and > > sense > > into a wholistic art form. Literature, music and dance. Louis Armstrong, > Sun > > Ra, Charlie Mingus, King Pleasure, Slim (Gailliard) & Slam (Stewart), > Alvin > > Ailey had all eloquently continued that course. Singers Eddie Jefferson, > Jon > > Hendricks, Oscar Brown, Jr., and, of course, Nina Simone, had long ago > fused > > poetry into the jazz voice (Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit was actually a > > poem someone had given her). > > Of equal significance is the immediate link to Rap and Spoken > Word, > > musicians Weldon Irvine, Ahmed Abdullah and Oliver Lake, like their > literary > > counterparts, The Last Poets, Jayne Cortez, Sekou Sundiata, Tom > Mitchelson, > > Yusef Waliyaya, Cheryl Byron, Atiba Kwabena Wilson, Ngoma Hill, each in > > their > > turn, have preceded Sharif Simmons, UniVerses, 2nd To Last, etc., in > fusing > > the poem with the idioms of music and dance. > > And so the insistence that music and word are inseparable > elements > > to > > the voice raising up and rising up comes full circle inside the currents > of > > modern poetics. It's part of an ongoing continuum in constant evolution, > an > > unfinished renaissance establishing its own parameters on its own terms. > > Like > > Sterling Brown once posed, "If it took Europe 300 years to unfold its > > renaissance, what makes you think that we can do it in six?" > > And while it is homegrown North American, it is also cross-rooted > > in > > an African and Caribbean experience. > > > > ---------------------------- > > Poet Louis Reyes Rivera is a professor of African American, Puerto Rican > and > > Caribbean Literature and History; his latest collection, Scattered > > Scripture, > > won the 1997 Poetry Award from the Latin American Writers' Institute. He > can > > be reached at Louisreyesrivera@aol.com. > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:03:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: rivera piece... MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I thought the article was about non-mainstream sound poetry. Shakespeare wasn't listednor were the mainstream Russian sound poets. tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:42:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the glades MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - the glades are a continuous dynamic process across a planar surface. a park with variable boundaries, problematic topography based on hydrology and human intervention. the dynamic is everything; think of the glades as an _inscribed surface_ transforming in space and time - a surface organic and shifting. the glades are simultaneous with their entanglement of life and migration; they are vectored, and vector is everything. geology is underfoot; to manage the glades is to manage the ecosystem. invisible topographies / geologies manifest by surface organism. the indefinite prolonging of comprehension. lesser research on amphibia, arachnida. effect of mosquito population on other species. marsh hare american bittern desiccated periphyton red-shouldered hawk black mangrove pneumatophores in short hydroperiod brackish ponds dwarf cypress forest cypress dome interior zebra longwing prairie warbler black-necked stilt hardwood hammock echo "marsh hare" >> echo "american bittern" >> echo "desiccated periphyton" >> echo "red-shouldered hawk" >> echo "black mangrove pneumatophores in short hydroperiod brackish ponds" >> echo "dwarf cypress forest" >> echo "cypress dome interior" >> echo "zebra longwing" >> echo "prairie warbler" >> echo "black-necked stilt" >> echo "hardwood hammock" >> glades _as_ a dynamic confluence of subjective horizon and interwoven biomes - perception of organism, organic perception: to lose oneself across or within a breathing sheet of water - laminar/animal flow - broken by solution holes, slight ridges; one wanders _anywhere_ among fragility, evanescence, limestone accretions, marl, peat, periphyton, surface ruptures of hammocks, domes, sloughs, marsh, river, creek, borrow pits, dikes, airboat trails, highways 75 and 41, embankments... local networkings, routers, communities, rookeries, isps, servers, trails, usps, clients, hosts, nodes, domain names, water conservation areas, icann, water management areas >> monotone of slow breath, particulate grasping: _the prehensile_ withdrawal from alligator radius (nikuko wants to go home. jennifer wants to go in.) _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:20:06 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Constructive Criticism: 8 'Nature' Poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave. These are good. I like the way you "quietly" work here, and mix "nature" - so-called nature - and "man-made" things...of course the difference is one of poetics or enculturation and so on. But I like things like: " green with young electricity" And your scorpion poem: and many of the others... I'm serious this time! As to scorpions: I've never seen one but my brother stood on one in Australia years ago. Interesting. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hess" To: Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 4:42 PM Subject: Constructive Criticism: 8 'Nature' Poems > I typed these in instead of pasting them so the jagged line breaks make it > through, i think.... > > > SHORT STORM > > > The rain falls down > in buckets > in heaps and piles > in clumps > it disappears > into the ground > for all to see > > The gray sky floats > it does not shatter > it does not break > it moves on > lighting up the spring buds > who already glow green > with young electricity > > > > INVENTION > > > That spider > wove her web > inside the lamp post > glass near the bulb > all night it 'burns' > and the moths collide > and the flies cry > the same cry ev'ry > night 'it's a trap!' > > > > AJUGA > > > The minute > purple forest > > suffering of hungry bees > bumbling for > > a taste of life's > new wine how > > old--not this place, > universe > how old--matter I mean or > energy > how old--the future > > safe slope > is bosom then > > a nipple > > of violet ignition > > > > CONFUSION OF A DOG > > > who attacks > a rabbit nest > the dug up squeals > a cardboard box > put some grass in the > cellar it's cold > put some milk > in the water in this > eyedropper > > too much the sight of them > not enough > all they were four I think > fur and a beating heart > helpless in their persistence > to live > is to hunt and hurt > eat and believe > the mother > where she went > fear stronger than the bond > sometimes > > the mouth > would open > eyes stay closed or glaze over > a sure sign > two still alive > after a few days > try to put them near her > that tree > then under bushes > between leaves they will crawl > nowhere > to their deaths > > > > THE SCORPION > > > crawled out from the sea > a long long time ago > and now makes the desert its home > in the sand it withstands > the sun in deeply coiled burrows > its nightly fluorescent shine > attracts a meal it can eat > many times its weight and not > digest it for years it stores minerals > in its stinger > it's more indestructible than > its wielder its poison can suffocate > most anything an atomic blast, insecticide > it's futile the loner can be freeze-dried > and thawed out > walking away like nothing happened > > > > THE LISTENER > > > Under an azure sky > we will die > our warmth turning to cold > > And the owl's eyes > and the owl's hoot > that keeps watch > as you fall to sleep > > It goes on, it leaves > and returns, to escape > your eyes and live in > > The night > when you go to sleep > and the owl flies awake > > > > TO KISS WITHOUT LIPS > > > Sound of raccoons > on the roof > where they feed > or jump around, cavort > in chimneys > do their raccoon thing > > I follow their footsteps > along the gutter, I see > one who > sees me > > whiter than I expected > the black mascara > perfectly smeared > the lovely outlaws > who invade the garbage > for supermarket > chicken bones > know what's up > but don't care > I wonder > > we stare > with nothing to feed each other > beyond the window pane > mutual, it must be > curiosity > and for the moment > faithful > fearless > disbelief > > > > THE TRAVELER > > > The second-story window > stopped the bird > a yellow-bellied sapsucker > I'd never seen one, had to > look it up in an encyclopedia > there it was, with its name > (they do not give each other names > that is a difference, no? > without names they communicate-- > > stuffed it looked > huddled within itself > its speckled wings a shawl or shroud > prepared for burial > in a stomach in that sharp > second > a dazed look eyes askew > but serene its frozen face > > what age and what flight > to its family? perhaps it saw > in the glass its reflection > thus a mate or maybe prey > another indoor worm > squirming in neglect > of its surroundings > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:03:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: svaha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit et tu Alan google is great Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:24:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Parr Subject: Inchoate inquiry... Post-war poetry and American popular culture? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi list-- I've been working on post-WWII American poetry and thinking about a lense that might fit, other than the problematic and somewhat tired divides of Modern/Postmodern, Institutional/Regional, New Critical/Avant garde, etc. After WWII, America had this huge economic surge that went hand-in-hand with advertising, radio, movies, and the developoment of television. I wonder if one way to look at post-war American poetry could have to do with an opening-up-to/closing-off-from American mass/popular media. Someone like O'Hara comes right to mind-- he had this amazing ability to just incorporate everything into his work, and not really worry about the so-called high/low distinctions. Ashbery sort of did it-- willing to pay attention to it, but often plays with it in such a way as to reinterpret it as "culture," not just mass culture. The academic American poets of the 50's and 60's often didn't-- but they have moments. R. Lowell talks about his "Tudor Ford," and that's his sense of humor-- popular culture can "be" in his poems, but only at an ironic distance. Bishop plays that game, but doesn't resist basing a poem upon a given issue of National Geographic-- or a misreading of a NY Times article. Also thinking about how New Critical tenets were arguably set up to _resist_ popular/mass culture-- a "good" poem should be self-enclosed, resistant to social/cultural history-- a little encampment on the edge of "culture," ready to pull back if necessary. This ties into the literary historical angle-- "poetry" shouldn't bother with these things, but a novelist or playwrite can-- Pynchon is "witty" for doing it so often, but a poet doesn't seem to be allowed this perspective. Anyways, a first draft upon nothing maybe, but I'd love to hear from everyone. Or suggestions of either poets or critics I should check out. Thanks, James ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:58:26 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Inchoate inquiry... Post-war poetry and American popular culture? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're right re Ashery: everything becomes material for his art. But what about looking outside America FIRST, then, you;ll be the first American in the history of the Universe and might be jailed, but think about the possibility of a world WITHOUT America. Or explore the novel concept that there are actually other contries outside the United States: no one would believe you of course so maybe it would be a doomed project: but gloriously and courageously doomed. You'll become the one: you'll be remembered as saving that eccentric little land in North Esat Africa whose inhabitants think they are the most important nation onthe earth...but sadly.....the truth! the truth! Richard.(from a country called New Zealand that's N E W...no, dont worry, just think of New Orleans..... - there's a Country callled Fran....no forget that, too comlicated....too confusng to a United Staesian) I was only jokng: of course you have to stick to the US.....there arent any other countries. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Parr" To: Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 8:24 PM Subject: Inchoate inquiry... Post-war poetry and American popular culture? > Hi list-- > > I've been working on post-WWII American poetry and thinking about a > lense that might fit, other than the problematic and somewhat tired > divides of Modern/Postmodern, Institutional/Regional, New Critical/Avant > garde, etc. > > After WWII, America had this huge economic surge that went hand-in-hand > with advertising, radio, movies, and the developoment of television. I > wonder if one way to look at post-war American poetry could have to do > with an opening-up-to/closing-off-from American mass/popular media. > Someone like O'Hara comes right to mind-- he had this amazing ability to > just incorporate everything into his work, and not really worry about > the so-called high/low distinctions. Ashbery sort of did it-- willing > to pay attention to it, but often plays with it in such a way as to > reinterpret it as "culture," not just mass culture. The academic > American poets of the 50's and 60's often didn't-- but they have > moments. R. Lowell talks about his "Tudor Ford," and that's his sense > of humor-- popular culture can "be" in his poems, but only at an ironic > distance. Bishop plays that game, but doesn't resist basing a poem upon > a given issue of National Geographic-- or a misreading of a NY Times > article. > > Also thinking about how New Critical tenets were arguably set up to > _resist_ popular/mass culture-- a "good" poem should be self-enclosed, > resistant to social/cultural history-- a little encampment on the edge > of "culture," ready to pull back if necessary. This ties into the > literary historical angle-- "poetry" shouldn't bother with these things, > but a novelist or playwrite can-- Pynchon is "witty" for doing it so > often, but a poet doesn't seem to be allowed this perspective. > > Anyways, a first draft upon nothing maybe, but I'd love to hear from > everyone. Or suggestions of either poets or critics I should check out. > > Thanks, > James > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:50:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: Inchoate inquiry... Post-war poetry and American popular culture? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi James, as for including everything in their writing... consider Ted Berrigan... for bean spasms... and everything else. of course his beautiful sonnets. several beats fit that distinction...wichita vortex sutra... when was jerome rothenberg up to what he was up to? he has a book called between that published poems from 1960-1963... Jackson Mac Low... John Cage... evasion of ego as center of meaning formation for any piece of writing... bout all i can come up with as it is late/early here... J ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Parr" To: Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 2:24 AM Subject: Inchoate inquiry... Post-war poetry and American popular culture? > Hi list-- > > I've been working on post-WWII American poetry and thinking about a > lense that might fit, other than the problematic and somewhat tired > divides of Modern/Postmodern, Institutional/Regional, New Critical/Avant > garde, etc. > > After WWII, America had this huge economic surge that went hand-in-hand > with advertising, radio, movies, and the developoment of television. I > wonder if one way to look at post-war American poetry could have to do > with an opening-up-to/closing-off-from American mass/popular media. > Someone like O'Hara comes right to mind-- he had this amazing ability to > just incorporate everything into his work, and not really worry about > the so-called high/low distinctions. Ashbery sort of did it-- willing > to pay attention to it, but often plays with it in such a way as to > reinterpret it as "culture," not just mass culture. The academic > American poets of the 50's and 60's often didn't-- but they have > moments. R. Lowell talks about his "Tudor Ford," and that's his sense > of humor-- popular culture can "be" in his poems, but only at an ironic > distance. Bishop plays that game, but doesn't resist basing a poem upon > a given issue of National Geographic-- or a misreading of a NY Times > article. > > Also thinking about how New Critical tenets were arguably set up to > _resist_ popular/mass culture-- a "good" poem should be self-enclosed, > resistant to social/cultural history-- a little encampment on the edge > of "culture," ready to pull back if necessary. This ties into the > literary historical angle-- "poetry" shouldn't bother with these things, > but a novelist or playwrite can-- Pynchon is "witty" for doing it so > often, but a poet doesn't seem to be allowed this perspective. > > Anyways, a first draft upon nothing maybe, but I'd love to hear from > everyone. Or suggestions of either poets or critics I should check out. > > Thanks, > James > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:31:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: boasting poems? In-Reply-To: <1764026698.1019671275@ubppp248-59.dialin.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is there a name for a tradition or form of poetry in which the poet boasts about him or herself? I know this of course shows up a lot in rap music, but does it have any heritage in the poetry of any specific culture or time? And can anyone give me an example or name of a poet who does this well? Thanks so much--backchannel or front... Arielle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:36:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: boasting poems? In-Reply-To: <20020425133125.15448.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Arielle, I've given this a wee bit of thought, http://www.writenet.org/fwir_abelz.html I have more in my files, which I'll email when I can get to it. Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:48:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Barr Subject: Re: boasting poems? In-Reply-To: <20020425133125.15448.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Is there a name for a tradition or form of poetry in >which the poet boasts about him or herself? I know >this of course shows up a lot in rap music, but does >it have any heritage in the poetry of any specific >culture or time? And can anyone give me an example or >name of a poet who does this well? > "Playing the dozens" or "signifying" has a huge history in African American culture and folk art. Look to Henry Lewis Gates' book _The Signifying Monkey_ and the following article for more on that: Wood, Brent. "Understanding Rap as Rhetorical Folk Poetry." Mosaic 32.4 (1999): 129-146. Both are good introductions. I use Wood's article in one of my poetry classes. He draws a strong line of tradition from playing the dozens through blues to rap. My students really connect with the rap element--bringing in lyrics of their own. -- Brandon Barr University of Rochester http://brandonbarr.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:48:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: boasting poems? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Oh, my god, Aaron, these are so beautiful! I love Terence Blue's Ali-inspired poem..."I'll break the flag and I'm God"?!!? Why can't I write that well?! This is fabulous stuff. I'm totally inspired. Send more, more! Yours, Arielle --- Aaron Belz wrote: > Arielle, > > I've given this a wee bit of thought, > http://www.writenet.org/fwir_abelz.html > > I have more in my files, which I'll email when I can > get to it. > > Aaron __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:51:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Re: boasting poems? In-Reply-To: <20020425133125.15448.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii my favorite Boasts of all time are in the Iliad--my favorite translation for the Boasts (they come across edgier and slightly ironic in the high diction) is Richmond Lattimore's... no one talks trash like greeks on the battlefield...well, unless it's the trojans... --- Arielle Greenberg wrote: > Is there a name for a tradition or form of poetry in > which the poet boasts about him or herself? I know > this of course shows up a lot in rap music, but does > it have any heritage in the poetry of any specific > culture or time? And can anyone give me an example > or > name of a poet who does this well? > > Thanks so much--backchannel or front... > > Arielle > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:55:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: boasting poems? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated Thu, 25 Apr 2002 9:31:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Arielle Greenberg writes: >Is there a name for a tradition or form of poetry in >which the poet boasts about him or herself? I know >this of course shows up a lot in rap music, but does >it have any heritage in the poetry of any specific >culture or time? And can anyone give me an example or >name of a poet who does this well? > >Thanks so much--backchannel or front... > >Arielle > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more >http://games.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:14:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: boasting poems? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, there is long tradition of it in Russian poetry - from Pushkin's "The monument that I created for myself is not by human hands/The crowds will never seize to attend.." (my free instant translation - u can find a better one, i am sure :-), to futurists like Igor Severyanin's and Mayakovsky's boasting of their contribution to Russian letters and bad-ass attitude. There is no name for this tradition, but it's all over the place in Russia Poetry, especially in the early Russian Avant-garde. Best, Igor Satanovsky koapress.com In a message dated Thu, 25 Apr 2002 9:31:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Arielle Greenberg writes: >Is there a name for a tradition or form of poetry in >which the poet boasts about him or herself? I know >this of course shows up a lot in rap music, but does >it have any heritage in the poetry of any specific >culture or time? And can anyone give me an example or >name of a poet who does this well? > >Thanks so much--backchannel or front... > >Arielle > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more >http://games.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:28:49 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: boasting poems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes this is called a resume Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:04:38 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You may not like this Arielle, but Nikki Giovanni's "Ego-Tripping" was always fun to teach for me.....I especially like the way it ends with what I take to be a reference to the then current Temptations hit, "I can't get next to you"-----Well, maybe that needn't be her allusion, but to end a poem in italics saying I mean I can fly like a bird in the sky may itself really complicate the poem in interesting ways (it's early, not very coherent....)... c Brandon Barr wrote: > >Is there a name for a tradition or form of poetry in > >which the poet boasts about him or herself? I know > >this of course shows up a lot in rap music, but does > >it have any heritage in the poetry of any specific > >culture or time? And can anyone give me an example or > >name of a poet who does this well? > > > > "Playing the dozens" or "signifying" has a huge history in African > American culture and folk art. Look to Henry Lewis Gates' book _The > Signifying Monkey_ and the following article for more on that: > > Wood, Brent. "Understanding Rap as Rhetorical Folk Poetry." Mosaic > 32.4 (1999): 129-146. > > Both are good introductions. I use Wood's article in one of my > poetry classes. He draws a strong line of tradition from playing > the dozens through blues to rap. My students really connect with the > rap element--bringing in lyrics of their own. > > -- > Brandon Barr > University of Rochester > http://brandonbarr.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:07:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Publishers of Daniel Davidson? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello Everyone, The wonderful Krupskaya press in San Francisco is publishing Daniel Davidson's seven-book long poem, _culture_, and I need to have a (hopefully) complete list of where portions of it were originally published. If you published portions of the following of Dan's poems: "Product" "Bureaucrat, my love." "An Account" "Transit" "Image" "Desire" "Anomie" Or know someplace that did, please let me know as soon as you can, even if you think I already have that information. Many kind thanks in advance, Gary Sullivan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:29:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: svaha In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" ok folks i feel like an idiot; i tried to retrieve this msg to erase the "russian" part but couldn't...so it got sent off to the world... At 6:01 PM -0600 4/24/02, Maria Damon wrote: >sanskrit? >as in >om gate...parasam gate bodhi svaha! >or -- or russian? (cuz i know yr dealing w/ that now...)??? > >At 4:45 PM -0500 4/24/02, mIEKAL aND wrote: >>svaha means "the time between seeing the lightning and hearing the thunder" >> >> >>does anyone know what language this is? >> >> >>mIEKAL -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:30:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Re: boasting poems? In-Reply-To: <20020425133125.15448.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "I celebrate myself and sing myself..." -- Walt Whitman But when we're done with boasting we might practice humility. For starters: "I'm Nobody! Who are you?" -- Emily Dickinson William Slaughter _________________ wrs@unf.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:36:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: boasting poems? In-Reply-To: <20020425133125.15448.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" many cultures have traditions in which, at weddings for example, the "bride's people" and the "groom's people" (often the female relatives) taunt the other wedding member with boasting songs of their respective person (bride or groom)'s sexual prowess. each party takes turns one-upping the other. this seems to have morphed into various new world things like sports cheers, playing the dozens (part boast and part insult), raps in which the rapper brags of his/her rhyming prowess, etc. At 6:31 AM -0700 4/25/02, Arielle Greenberg wrote: >Is there a name for a tradition or form of poetry in >which the poet boasts about him or herself? I know >this of course shows up a lot in rap music, but does >it have any heritage in the poetry of any specific >culture or time? And can anyone give me an example or >name of a poet who does this well? > >Thanks so much--backchannel or front... > >Arielle > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more >http://games.yahoo.com/ -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:37:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kasey Mohammad (Hotmail)" Subject: Re: [unintended repost of] "Language Poetry is"...? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> From: "K.Silem Mohammad" >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: "Language Poetry is"...? >> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:28:57 -0700 Sorry this showed up on the list twice. This first version was originally sent on Sunday, and I thought it didn't go through, but it finally showed up after I reposted it. K. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:59:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: LANGUAGE POETS: AN OVERVIEW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed LANGUAGE POETS: AN OVERVIEW "Language poets" have established themselves as the most rigorous and the most radically experimental avant-garde on the current literary scene. Language poets were so sociologically savvy; they knew better than anyone. Language poets are so significant, that the crux of the matter is a political one. I am sure you are. Language poets had two provocative insights, which they pushed. Language poets have questioned notions of expressive voice and stable identity. Language poets had lost the instinct for nature and were unwilling to acquire it through discipline. Language poets had to destroy it. Language poets have noted the way in which grammar structures tend to support the power structures of western societies. Language poets were a long way away from the lyrical likes of "The Lake Isle of Innisfree." Language poets were in a bitter struggle over questions of poetic inheritance. Language poets were "taking over." Books and magazines were being published by writers. Language poets had begun writing sequences, some of which were already being published in Lynx. Language poets are chosen for this study from the multitude of similarly oriented. Language poets are also included, as well as some poetry in translation. The poems take. Language poets were the best masters of discovering and using metaphor. Language poets love metaphors, another case of "language charged with meaning." Language poets have claimed in the past to be politically and artistically progressive, neither. Language poets are amazingly conservative in the cosmetic "look and feel" of the poem. The difficulty.... Language poets had, at least at an earlier point, a real agenda. They were able to critique. Language poets were attacking an Establishment, but it's hardly the case that today. Language poets have joined the academy. Has the latest avant-garde expired? Language poets are for the most part intensely interested in literary theory, and thus see. Language poets are often criticized for being over-analytical; Palmer's work can be both. Language poets are sometimes addressed in English 210, 284, 285, 265, 261, and 288; and theories of. Language poets are an extremely diverse though networked group of practitioners. Language poets have always practiced. The only American formalists of the century may well turn. Language poets have left the area, and young writers tend to have conflicting opinions. Language poets have left open as much as possible their movement through time (things they write). Language poets have struck ore in their discovery of untapped creative depths. Language poets have refreshed the scene wonderfully, though I sympathies with those who find some. Language poets use mnemonics to help you memorize words in the language. Language poets have been constructing caves, rooms, hermits' cabins, abandoned houses, temples, the nine rings of hell.... Language poets have attempted to create false power structures or social functions? much.... Language poets are good--and McHugh is an extraordinary one. They shuffle language. Language poets do this by upsetting the conventions of poetry through oftentimes. Language poets do make crazy spew the way it comes out pouring, naturally or semi-naturally. Language poets are out to debunk. The issue is not then, reference per se. Language poets are just as capable of writing drab prose as anyone else. Language poets have the aesthetic clothes to wear for perhaps a good one-third or more. Language poets have been not only greatly influenced by haiku, but also often publish haiku. Language poets write "renku" or linked verse in patterns. Language poets do recognize the fact that it is nearly impossible to dismiss all reference. Language poets are primary toward whatever meaning a reader is lucky enough to cull. Language poets like myself do not necessarily want to make sense but to make what? Startling.... Language poets don't fit so easily into a fixed mold. My aporia. If poetry is a kind of talk.... Language poets like Bernstein are positing what we might call the absence of the pronoun. Language poets are concerned with the underlying political ramifications of the American workshop poem. Language poets have all taken a journey past the restrictions of Imagism and classical Chinese poetry. Language poets wish a plague on both houses for their presumed shared sense of self. Language poets go on vacation, they leave Stein and Wittgenstein at home and take Sappho. Language poets want to be rhetorical, but subtly, denying the subjectivity of art. Language poets go on and on about this. Language poets do not intend to shape "limits" with their poetry but set in motion "conversations." Language poets do that, and poetry of that sort is usually equally obfuscatory and difficult. Language poets appear more ubiquitous, and more authoritative and powerful, than they actually are. Language poets are just a few examples of the production of our postmodern world. Language poets are not William Logan's cup of tea. Language poets do a lot of work that most of the time doesn't interest me. Language poets do not appear, as yet, to write good poems. Language poets are totally trivial and boring, so I won't pursue that one. I certainly think. Language poets have inflated egos and love the sound of their own voice, e.g. Victor Hugo. Language poets get closer to New Criticism as Silliman at one point ruefully admits. I have. Language poets have been accused of generating a private discourse, one which their critics suggest. Language poets have taken, it does seem to me, a little burst of anti-intellectualism floating about. Language poets have encouraged a greater awareness within the field of poetry. Language poets are usefully exploring a frontier and may be making us more conscious of language. Language poets try to give the most exact details possible. Then their readers can imagine. Language poets use the _Poetry: Reference Sources_ guide to check print sources. Language poets use the Index in _Volume 8. Nineteenth Century Literary Criticism, Twentieth Century_. Language poets are arranged by name or anonymous title. Language poets use Art Deco ceramic capacitor, Smack for Blair at Birth of Euro, Lophophora seed.... Language poets have traditionally used that plant to suggest the sadness of parting. Language poets write about love, painters paint it, birds sing it, we all feel it. Language poets are not the gatekeepers of a citadel of higher consciousness. Language poets are not so much the unacknowledged legislators as the foreshadowing legislators. Language poets have completely subtracted a certain variable--"emotion"--from the poetic. Language poets are writing only about language itself. Language poets are people steeped in language. Language gives you the manner of the poem, as well. Language poets have often reminded us, the question of LANGUAGE stands at the center. Language poets are interested in exploring experience through the written word. That includes any. Language poets have continued that exploration for the last three decades. Language poets are dealing with these old notions; there's nothing new about them. You're given that. Language poets have answered those questions. Language poets like Bruce Andrews, Charles Bernstein, Barrett Watten and Lyn Hejinian. Language poets like Leslie Scalapino, Clark Coolidge, Ron Padgett, and Ron Silliman. Language poets like Bernstein _or_ Andrews. Language poets like Charles Bernstein _or_ Lyn Hejinian _or_ Bob Perelman. Language poets like Ezra Pound (1885-1972) and T.S. Eliot (1888-1965). Language poets like Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. Language poets like Garcia Lorca, Jorge Luis Borges, and Miguel de Cervantes. Language poets like Geoffrey Hill, Henri Cole and Anne Carson. Language poets do not exist as an anathema. Language poets have been equally comfortable with our abstract-rooted vocabulary, or as skillful. Language poets write about immigration, racism, poverty, exploitation, etc. Rhythm, Content and Flavor.... Language poets try to get beyond poetry that is merely "about" a subject, Ms. Perloff said. Language poets are much more concerned with arranging images than with creating them. Language poets do not invent them out of thin air. To construct a new metrical system.... Language poets are fairly obsessed with technology. Barrett Watten has a poem. Language poets are really writing. Language poets do endure and we want them to thrive. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:04:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Much of "Confessional Poetry" -- Berryman, Plath, Sexton, Smith -- has many strong moments of boasting, as well as well as the "Beats" -- have heard it...been present for Huncke's, Ginsberg's, Giorno's brags and boasts... And, although she donned various personas, Kathy Acker, was a heavy-hitter, boasting and toasting through the night, I'm think here, especially of "Pussy: King Of The Pirates". But has been pointed out: it's everywhere -- ancient, present, everywhere. One of the most shimmering examples (re-discovered, joyfully) is the poetry of Ho Xuan Hu'o'ng, thinking here of the poems where she attacked male authority. Wondrous, risqué. bst, Gerald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Greenberg" To: Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: Re: boasting poems? > Oh, my god, Aaron, these are so beautiful! I love > Terence Blue's Ali-inspired poem..."I'll break the > flag and I'm God"?!!? Why can't I write that well?! > > This is fabulous stuff. I'm totally inspired. Send > more, more! > > Yours, > Arielle > > --- Aaron Belz wrote: > > Arielle, > > > > I've given this a wee bit of thought, > > http://www.writenet.org/fwir_abelz.html > > > > I have more in my files, which I'll email when I can > > get to it. > > > > Aaron > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:19:48 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: What Is? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I search fror concrete "This is what language poetry looks like" "This is how you describe it in simple terms" "This is how yo write a Language poem" for me it is a practical question. I have taught poetry writing courses (over the net to mentally ill folk) and I take them through various schools of poetry and suggest that they try out imitating each school's style (if not its thematic concerns; I mean I don't ask them to write about Fire Island when we do New York School :-). I have tried to distill out of each school of poetry a list of "techniques" or else breaking rules which existed in prior poetry so that students will not end up choosing a style and writing in it (which is silly-- if I produced a class of dadaists for exampple I would not be doing my job-- but from Dada you klearn to uintegrate random elements into ppoetry, to wroite poems without recognizable words or even morphemes but that often have sound, to be humorous, to be surreal, and then I lookk at how that's different than the Surrealists and so on) but rather they will have a toolbox of techniques that can be used in poems, a kind of higher-level set of techniques above the level of metaphr and simle etc. The class is hardly fopr everyone but the poeple who liked it said that their writing improved and that they learned that they were obeying all sorts of rules thay thought they couldn't break. They also said that they liked being taught something in a wworkshop rather than just doing exercises (many had been in the lets alll read our poems kind of classs before). All this preamble is to say, how would I present Language poetry for such an audience? The absolutely do not understand theory (and neither do I). But they write well and can make fine distinctions between various poetic genres. As it was, I put together a final set of reading of assorted contemporary poetry and included some language poems, some poems by James Tate (what would you call him? I don't think he's NY school unless he's second generation NY school perhaps, like Lehman... But Tate is such an original ppoet and so unlike the boringness of some NY school hangers-on...) Millie P.S. Won't be teaching until the fall probably. This summer I'm teaching web design. To a similar audience (mentally ill folks who want something to do while they are on disability other than stuff envelopes or go to day program where they can color coloring book pages). I am stressed at the thought of using my own apartment to teach. It would take only one creepy student, or an overeager one who didn't want to leave off on his/her work to really annnoy me... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of K.Silem Mohammad Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 9:18 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: What Is? >From: Barrett Watten >Subject: What Is? > >First, what kind of question is being asked? Some analogies: what is >surrealism, what is poetry, what is pornography, what is art, what is >language. It seems to me that the way question is raised, an aspect of all >these could be involved: a historical movement or literary tendency vs. >stylistic attributes or other objective descriptors; a genre; a legal >definition subject to "community standards"; that which we all agree is X; >an object of study or a means of communication. > >And yet I think there is a distinct kind of journalistic worrying over the >issue--something like How do I explain this to someone who has never heard >of it, and does that make either me or him/her legitimate or >illegitimate--that continually circles around the same null point. Perhaps >Language poetry is very good at evoking that null point, which then becomes >a part of its reception. I would rather it be seen in precisely the >opposite sense--a set of particular and decisive options. I don't want to be so quick to dismiss such "journalistic worrying," because I think it is also a _practical_ worrying: that is, a worrying centered around praxis in a given community, or in a set of possible communities awaiting determination. One effect of Langpo has certainly been to make this issue of community's relation to (individual) praxis more crucial than ever, and to make concerns such as How to Explain a Given Poetics to the Uninitiated very relevant concerns. Thus, I don't think even a basic question like "what is Langpo" can ever be reduced to a "null point," even if the same reductions and distortions are inevitably rehearsed in the ongoing head-scratching and mumbled replies. Of course there is going to be dumb repetition and wrongheaded misprision, but that's always part of any extended polylogue. In fact, I wonder if we don't _need_ the noise and static as an essential element of the social demonstration performed by language-centered writing's reception, transmission, and recycling: if its "tenets" were ever received as transparent, final dicta or definitions, this would suggest that one should be able to go back and "translate" the work to reveal where exactly such ultimate interpretations and prescriptions were encoded. Barrett, it seems to me that that's similar to what you're saying in saying "styles and descriptions ... don't just fragment into the same problem of language or signification." The way I read much Langpo, it is far too indebted to the ludic methods of earlier movements like NYS, surrealism, etc., to be fragmented (collapsed?) in that way. (And I'm aware that to make such a connection goes against the implicit or explicit claims of some of the founding fathers/mothers that Langpo signals a _break_ with what they see as the anti-intellectual, anti-analytic principles behind those earlier movements, but I see it nonetheless.) >I'm aware of a lot of spinning around this issue, but also a number, by >now, of very concrete positions for thinking the question through. And it >can be surprising that few of these positions are ever a part of the >debate. There is more often than not an aura of collective crisis about the >discussion--if that is or was Language poetry, what am I doing, what is my >relation to it? The more particular the answer to the first half of the >question, the worse it is for the latter. I'll get back to the "concrete positions"--at least one of them--but first, I find myself unable to read fully between the lines of your assessment of this "collective crisis": are you saying it's a pointless crisis to be having? or are you saying that it's a genuine cause for concern, but that people are going about addressing it in the wrong ways? or something else entirely? I think the difficulty I'm having in gauging _affect_ here is the most frequent aporia I encounter in reading your criticism generally (including "Secret History"), which may be part of your intention, and which in fact is part of what makes your criticism fascinating to me: that emotional impenetrability. Or even _positional_ impenetrability. So my asking you this question may be very naive, like asking Shandu to explain where the rabbit comes from (or disappears to). But you must see that one big reason that people continue the debate as though you had "never said a blessed thing" is that the "concreteness" of your position is nowhere near as obvious as you would have it! It's been a few months since I looked at "Secret History" carefully, but _is_ there really an "answer" to the question in question there? I remember it as being more about the nature of collaboration and community politics than about what distinguishes Langpo per se. I'm not saying it _should_ be about the latter, but in terms of your comments on the list, you sound like you're suggesting that the elements for a substantial grounding are contained therein. I haven't read Ben's article, but will find myself a copy. You do ask a question that I think is valid and important: why don't the many published accounts out there enter into these discussions more often? Two possible answers come to mind. One is that the nature of academic critical circulation is such that people--especially people not affiliated with any university that has a good library--often only come into contact with these materials in dribs and drabs if at all. The web is changing this, of course, but there is still some restriction of access to key texts involved here. Second, despite what I've just said, these arguments _do_ enter into the discussions, I think (and I assume we're talking about positions published by people like McGann, Perloff, Hartley, Kim, Spahr, etc.), albeit mixed and jumbled and filtered through people's all-too-human and fallible memories of many years' worth of past reading. If the list were a refereed journal, the imprecision and abstraction would be more alarming; but this is an _e-mail list_, and part of the attraction to such a list, in my opinion, is that people can have something like the kind of impromptu discussions they have in the hall with colleagues, students, and teachers. In such discussions, being off-book as it were, you get to see how squishy human minds really process this stuff, in the soup, in the act of daily living (or _fail_ to process it, which may be significant in itself). I'd wager that many (tho not all) people who ramble on the list will produce very cogent and well-documented positions when writing in a more formal context. Obviously that's where you want to go for obsessive consistency, inclusiveness, and retention; here, isn't the idea just to get a forum going? Of course, just like at a "real" forum, there's always someone like you who speaks up and demands intellectual integrity, so.... And once again, I share your frustration at the way what should be exhausted topics have to be rehearsed again and again and again. But I suspect that with every recycling, some nuance emerges that might not have been visible before, and there are people coming to this topic for the first time who can never come at from exactly the same perspective as those who were in on the inception. Movements get blurry over time, and what might now seem like an imperfect distortion of an original idea may actually be the necessary diffusion of past occurrences through a present lens--"necessary" both in the sense of "inevitable tho regrettable," and in the sense of "needed in order to make some timely adjustment." That may sound like an idealistic apology for weak theorizing, but I don't think it is entirely. But after all that, yes--how about it? Is there a comprehensive bibliography available anywhere? In Ben's article, perhaps? On the EPC site? Kasey ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:39:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: David Kirschenbaum (me) performing this Sat. night in Wmsbrg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David Kirschenbaum (me) performing poems and songs at the Sideshow Gallery 319 Bedford Ave. Williamsburg this Saturday, April 27, 2002, 7 p.m. Bedford Ave. stop on the L train between South 2nd and South 3rd streets Boog City music editor James Wilk will be accompanying me on electric guitar & analog synth Also performing will be mystery guests (ok, Brenda Iijima and Veronica Corpuz are two of ^Òem) editor@boogcity.com ^Õ 212-206-8899 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 206-8899 F: (212) 206-9982 editor@boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:56:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: <3CC54BE3.12467.254A1C@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can someone articulate an aesthetic orange telling good language orange from bad language orange? Or is it -- "I orange it when I see it" -- ? I Reply: Ouch. Orange wants to tackle THAT orange? (In 50 words orange less?) To the best orange my knowledge, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E orange, as "poetry" orange really exist. It's so orange a term, as to be nearly orange to use when actually speaking orange a "poet" orange "poetry." As a orange term (& as a political orange) it's quite useful and interesting. Quite beautiful, even. Especially with all those equal signs. I wish orange would use them orange often. As a way orange assign "good" and "bad" it orange work, orange. And wasn't, I think, ever meant to. It's a descriptive term orange. The concept orange evaluation orange enter, that I've found. Unless it's the "orange" of the/this cultural machinery by the/this/orange dislocated orange of the art act itself. Which orange possibly answer orange question, of orange. And would seem orange be, perhaps, historically orange anyway? All of this is just "maybe." J Gallaher wrote: Laura Fargas Writes: >Can someone articulate an aesthetic for telling good language poems >from bad language poems? >Or is it -- "I know it when I see it" -- ? I Reply: Ouch. Who wants to tackle THAT one? (In 50 words or less?) To the best of my knowledge, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry, as "poetry" doesn't really exist. It's so problematized a term, as to be nearly impossible to use when actually speaking about a "poet" or "poetry." As a theoretical term (& as a political one) it's quite useful and interesting. Quite beautiful, even. Especially with all those equal signs. I wish people would use them more often. As a way to assign "good" and "bad" it doesn't work, though. And wasn't, I think, ever meant to. It's a descriptive term only. The concept of evaluation doesn't enter, that I've found. Unless it's the "evaluation" of the/this cultural machinery by the/this/now dislocated opacity of the art act itself. Which couldn't possibly answer your question, of course. And would seem to be, perhaps, historically bound anyway? All of this is just "maybe." Um, JGallaher --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:33:12 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dubravka Djuric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thank you, douglas! we will be in touch! best, dubravka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:20:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: <20020425185606.95595.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Can someone articulate an aesthetic orange telling good language orange from bad language orange? Or tangelo tangerine -- "Kumquat orange tangerine when Kumquat see tangerine" -- ? Kumquat Reply: Ouch. Orange wants apple tackle PERSIMMON orange? (Melon 50 words orange less?) Apple kiwi best orange my knowledge, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E orange, grapefruit "poetry" orange really tangelo. Nectarine so orange a term, grapefruit apple be nearly orange apple use when actually speaking orange a "poet" orange "poetry." Grapefruit a orange term (& grapefruit a political orange) nectarine quite useful, banana interesting. Quite beautiful, even. Especially with all those equal signs. Kumquat tangelo orange would use kiwi orange breadfruit. Grapefruit a way orange grapefruit sign "good" banana "bad" tangerine orange work, orange. Banana grapefruit, Kumquat think, ever meant apple. Nectarine a descriptive term orange. Kiwi concept orange evaluation orange enter, persimmon Kumquat found. Unless nectarine kiwi "orange" breadfruit kiwi/tangelo cultural machinery loquat kiwi/tangelo/orange dislocated orange breadfruit kiwi art act itself. Which orange possibly answer orange question, breadfruit orange. Banana would seem orange be, perhaps, historically orange anyway? All breadfruit tangelo tangelo just "maybe." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english/ institute for advanced technology in the humanities university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:52:08 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: boasting poems? In-Reply-To: <20020425135123.48639.qmail@web21401.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are some great boasting poems in the old Irish poem Sweeney Astray, as translated/rewritten by Seamus Heaney. It's one of the cleanest, least gloppy things Heaney ever did, too. Millie -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mister Kazim Ali Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:51 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: boasting poems? my favorite Boasts of all time are in the Iliad--my favorite translation for the Boasts (they come across edgier and slightly ironic in the high diction) is Richmond Lattimore's... no one talks trash like greeks on the battlefield...well, unless it's the trojans... --- Arielle Greenberg wrote: > Is there a name for a tradition or form of poetry in > which the poet boasts about him or herself? I know > this of course shows up a lot in rap music, but does > it have any heritage in the poetry of any specific > culture or time? And can anyone give me an example > or > name of a poet who does this well? > > Thanks so much--backchannel or front... > > Arielle > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:54:17 +0100 Reply-To: Robin Hamilton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Damian Judge Rollison" > Kumquat Reply: Isn't kumquat Tony Harrison? "A Kumquat for John Keats". Not so much LangPo as transAtlantic USAmerican yet-once-more colonising BrtiSpeak. Robin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:21:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/25/02 12:42:27 PM, schwartzgk@MSN.COM writes: << Much of "Confessional Poetry" -- Berryman, Plath, Sexton, Smith -- has ma= ny strong moments of boasting, as well as well as the "Beats" -- have heard it...been present for Huncke's, Ginsberg's, Giorno's brags and boasts... And, although she donned various personas, Kathy Acker, was a heavy-hitter, boasting and toasting through the night, I'm think here, especially of "Pussy: King Of The Pirates". But has been pointed out: it's everywhere -- ancient, present, everywhere. One of the most shimmering examples (re-discovered, joyfully) is the poetry of Ho Xuan Hu'o'ng, thinking here of the poems where she attacked male authority. Wondrous, risqu=E9. >> And let's not forget Muhammad Ali. "If he's still alive/ He'll fall in=20 five." Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:36:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ...float like a bumblebee.... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:21 PM Subject: Re: boasting poems? In a message dated 4/25/02 12:42:27 PM, schwartzgk@MSN.COM writes: << Much of "Confessional Poetry" -- Berryman, Plath, Sexton, Smith -- has many strong moments of boasting, as well as well as the "Beats" -- have heard it...been present for Huncke's, Ginsberg's, Giorno's brags and boasts... And, although she donned various personas, Kathy Acker, was a heavy-hitter, boasting and toasting through the night, I'm think here, especially of "Pussy: King Of The Pirates". But has been pointed out: it's everywhere -- ancient, present, everywhere. One of the most shimmering examples (re-discovered, joyfully) is the poetry of Ho Xuan Hu'o'ng, thinking here of the poems where she attacked male authority. Wondrous, risqué. >> And let's not forget Muhammad Ali. "If he's still alive/ He'll fall in five." Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com/BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:54:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Jean-Claude Montel & Language Poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Here's a complex but short 1973 text that appeared in the French poetics journal _Change_ (1967-82) and that I recently translated. _Change_ was founded by certain _Tel Quel_ writers who came to hold serious political-theoretical differences with the latter's editors. This text, below, by novelist Jean-Claude Montel, points to certain international resonances for 1970s Language Poetry. For example, at the end of his essay, you will see that Montel coins and proposes a "dys-writing" that creates communicational dissonances in the global circulatory system of capital. The idea of a "dys-writing" addressing issues of circulation (of capital, of language) presciently identifies, I'd say, the poetics of Bruce Andrews (among others). I write a bit about this Montel text in relation to Mayakovsky^Òs and Brik's great concept of the "social command" in an Afterword (not included here). Both will soon appear in the little newsletter, _endnote_ #5 (1339, 19th Ave NW, Calgary, Alberta, T2M 1A5, Canada), which I'd be happy to send anyone for $2. (Thanks to the eds. for letting me send this ahead -- as a sort of advertising banner, perhaps.) Might be of interest to recent debate... Louis PS If anyone has Mr Montel's email address, I'd greatly appreciate it backchanneled. * * * * "A Propos the Social Command" [_Change_ 4, 1973] by Jean-Claude Montel (translation from the French, Louis Cabri) Since we have decided to stick with Mayakovsky in these notes on the "social command," let us begin with his definition in _How Are Verses Made_? Thus, the social command is constituted by "the presence of a problem in society, whose solution is imaginable only in poetic terms." One must not confuse this -- as it seems that we have tried hard to do for almost half a century -- with the "practical command" (i.e., "actual commissions") constituted by the existence, in society, of _solutions_ that the poetic work has as its function to _illustrate_. These two conceptions are irreducible to each other, and do not coincide. Passage from the one conception to the other (a passage we can schematize in identical language as above: ...the existence of solutions that the poetic work could prolong (could complete), indeed, plan...) is excluded, for the simple reason that the practical command (of an actual commission), produced by society and reproduced by "the work," denies the specificity of poetic practice, depriving it in advance of all possibility of real intervention in the order of discourses. These discourses are established for the sole advantage of Power, serving it with the goal of reinforcing it, by generalizing it. On the contrary, the social command aims to bring the intervention of the written text to its point of optimum efficacity. With what means, and in what registers? For Mayakovsky, two ideas have priority above all others and constantly guide him in his poetic work: 1. "A 'poet' must be in the middle of things and events," 2. "The poetic work must go beyond the event by introducing distance of time and place, and if distance does not exist in the facts, to at least take mental distance." This, simply, defines a double relation of belonging. On the one hand, a "poet" finds himself in the middle of society, taking part in the ordinary and everyday. On the other hand, he must also have "an exact knowledge, or rather sense, of the desires of his class (or the social or political group that he represents)" so that, in poetic work, he can go beyond this knowledge and write the theory of his practice. Such an attitude, in its historical and social practice -- by which a "poet" heats "the boots of the revolution" -- supposes in return that it can test the text a poet writes because of it, respond to hypotheses the text contains, and adequately portray the necessary utopia that will traverse the text. We know the Soviet power born in 1917 could or would not respond to the questions posed by -- and that it itself posed to -- the Futurists and Formalists. We know that this Soviet power contributed to thickening even more, and to reinforcing, the meaning of author, work, realism, character, etc. (seriously menaced as these words already were, in the capitalist Europe of this era). The historical checkmate of Futurism and of Formalism in no way signifies that the questions they posed lacked sense; rather, they could not find their real point of application in this new sovietized Russia. The fact that -- after some fifty years of underground life -- these ideas are re-emerging with force in our modern capitalist society, confers an even greater value on them. What does Mayakovsky mean when he insists: "a 'poet' must be in the middle of things and events"? In the first place, that the "poet" inhabit a society that is -- because socialist -- his own; also, that in no way should he regard this as a form of submission. He must, in his manner, precede and constantly go beyond Society -- "be in the vanguard of his class" -- so that Society is rendered visible (and readable) by the signs and events that constitute it (and that it constitutes, in return). For what concerns poetry in particular, Mayakovsky proposes more than a model of reading: _the sole thinking_, in fact, constantly worth reading on language and the poetic work in society. He gives form to _response_, for all, in the form of silent and potential signs. It is in this sense that one must understand, it seems to me, the other instruction of Mayakovsky's, which insists (and not solely for the reader) on the necessity of undertaking the study of the written text "from the side of a just examination of the process of _manufacture_." It means, in effect, something completely different than a tip of the hat to his Formalist friends, or than designating a "work," call it poetry, that one perceives from a distance... In question here, and without doubt for the first time, is a fundamental rupture introduced in the relations between "work" and "author." The point again, it is true, is to abandon these terms, or to replace them -- the condition, implicitly posed here, is of this necessity. A new perspective on the "poetic work" can be elaborated from this already, in its proper place and time, beginning with material furnished by history, and linking to the problematic of history itself. More importantly, this elaboration will occur on the model of _industry_ (the word is Mayakovsky's), bringing into play -- at the service of the text -- the ensemble of manual and intellectual operations necessary to the text's production, in order to constitute the completed social command (just as we can speak of a fulfilled contract). * * * * The operative force of this idea is that the social command is initially inseparable from both the "middle" position of the poet (and in relation to the primary state of poetry) and, in another sense, the state of society which corresponds to that text containing the totality of all forms it will be led to take in the course of its elaboration (before achieving its "principle of reality," once the work is completed). From there we see that the social command is a formal and aesthetic category, not given in advance but discovered and patiently constructed in the course of a series of transformations conducted through writing itself. In other respects, the work of the text is but a moment and a particular state of the social command. We understand, now, that the social command is present at the two extremities of the writer-reader chain, that it can -- all at once -- instigate the poetic work, determine it, regulate its elaboration, and assume its existence once achieved. The imperative of the social command is at once present and absent, found in that gap, optimally at the proposed time and place (in the "middle") where the text, once set (after many gropings and fruitless attempts) can ceaselessly start again to take meaning beyond the habitual paths or circuits assigned to its circulation, conforming all the while to the movement of its production and in view of creating _real metabolisms_ capable of putting in relation, by the intermediary of the poetic text, society with itself. The text of the social command establishes a process of permanent rereading. It seems clear now that Mayakovsky's example suggests that the task is to develop the text (or fiction) from particularly sensitive nodal points within the social. It also suggests that we should consider "society" as a single, we could say _global_, text. To perceive today, in these conditions, the social command, is precisely to find oneself -- to place oneself -- at these sites and hinge-moments of discourse, and, moreover, to be conscious of being -- of doing -- so. To bring these moments into existence is tactically and strategically premeditated to use these discourses (as much visual, aural or written) with the sole aim of _ruining_ them, one by the other, to make them _lie_ constantly, to _contradict_ them. It is -- once their separation (in which these discourses are artificially maintained) is broken -- to put them back into connection in view of constructing a single and unique (but plural) text independent of those who served in its elaboration, and strongly attached to economic, political, juridical, sexual, etc., plans. In a certain way, the Joyceian problematic of the single word prioritized for its etymology must be substituted for the complete phrase, with its variable construction overlapping in function the order of priorities it engenders and to which it returns. In effect, it is the research (and the putting into practice) of a _dys-writing_, susceptible to pressing with all its weight on language (the instrument, up to today, best adapted to circulation and therefore to production), to scour language to make apparent its skeleton. This skeleton is what Marx calls the central (the middle) discourse and that he defines as follows: _Circulation is the movement that makes general alienation appear as general appropriation, and vice versa. This constitutes our own social command_. What remains is to entirely exit this problem, and to denounce, in this relation -- social command, practical command -- the functioning of ideology as fashion system. Trans. note: For translations from Mayakovsky's Russian, I translate from Elsa Triolet's French (cited by Montel) and take note of George Hyde's English translation. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:17:06 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: a few thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Mark, Thanks for the few thoughts. My thought on them just now is that what you describe--and others--is an unremarkable process not specific to 'L= poetry' by which some texts or discourses said/thought to be new are assimilated, i.e. communicated, or disseminated, i.e. enter into circulation. You speak of 'academic and cultural reception'. The process always seems to me marked, may even be characterized,by underreading and misreadings, i.e. by miscommunication, misunderstanding. Miscommunication is motivated, designed to reduce difference to sameness--Millie Niss's post was asking us to help her do just that. But to help her would would not be any help. Yet, there is no escape, it is a question of managing the process; teaching is a matter of that--how much difficulty, how much difference can a student be exposed to, before a helping hand is offered? Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Mark DuCharme [mailto:markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 2:31 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: a few thoughts I'll try to pull together a response to various threads in this ongoing discussion. I'm doing this mostly from memory after having read & deleted many posts, so apologies if you feel I've misrepresented or misattributed something you said. I believe Laura Fargas asked whether anyone could articulate an aesthetic for judging which L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poems are better than others. I don't believe anyone can, in part because I read the moves to politicize poetry's formal apparatus & historicize its reception into a larger network of social relations, as a rejection of aesthetic criteria as such. (Or, the rejection of aesthetic criteria as ~primarily~ important). If you bracket off this rejection & attempt to re-aestheticize that body of work, then Language Poetry doesn't make much sense, or that is, retain the same relevance. Yet the situation is a little more complicated than that. In her post, the absense of a criterion is linked to the old saw "I know what I like." If "knowing" what you like suggests an uncritical response, I'd say that it's nearly impossible to have a coherent critical response to something as omnipresent & generic-- in the sense of its academic & cultural reception-- as "Language Poetry" has become. (Surely this was the impetus behind Kasey Mohammed's playful post, or at least as I would read it). On the other hand if she had asked, can anyone articulate why _My Life_ (for example) remains a worthwhile text, I'd bet she would have gotten dozens of thoughtful replies. Yet to turn the question on its head-- I'd like to know which of us ~doesn't~ "know what she likes." And which comes first-- the "liking" or the critical response? Who other than some poor graduate student would invest more than a pale degree of energy & attention upon some work they didn't care about? Joe Amato says that L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry must still be very relevant, & as evidence he points to all the recent posts on the subject. Well I agree, Joe, it's still relevant, but I'd also ask, is it the ~work~ that's relevant to the one posting, or the idea of the work, or its reception in one form or another. I think that Bill Austin has the last word here, when he writes, "Critics find the [LP] movement innovative. The originators are celebrated, ergo their writing ascends, not because of its aesthetic merits, but because it is valued as first." And who can argue with him, except perhaps to note some of the poets, like MacLow, Coolidge, Cage, Spicer, Stein & Zukofsky, who came before the firsts. (And yes, I'm aware that it's not the same thing as *valued* as first: a clever distinction, Bill). I'm not trying to be skeptical here-- or if I am, it is not toward the writers & writing grouped under the banner of "L=A=N=G=U=A=N=G=E Poetry," but rather toward what I'm calling here its academic & cultural reception. Ultimately, Bill's analysis is irrefutable, while it also suggests that what's most "relevant" to us may be the poetics of the Kings of the Hill. One of the problems attendant with the Kings-of-the-Hill line of thought is that it reinscribes the imperatives of economic & cultural forces we would otherwise critique, but in this case shifts the marginally favored position to some ironic heirs apparent. Winner take all: well fortunately that's ~not~ it. In the end, I like and most agree with mIEKAL's post-- just in the sense of attending to the small l's, to READING outside the conditions of institutional acceptance. Poetry-- David Hess is right-- is larger than these games; I wonder if any of us is able to articulate how & in what sense. Cheers, Mark DuCharme 'poetry because things say' -Bernadette Mayer http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:02:33 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: The Lady Bug Execution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII there was talk of these bugs a while ago. here is a song from a friend of mine, Megan Benjafield. Transmitted with permission. bye, Kevin The Lady Bug Execution Tell us they bite, it's O.K. to kill them, It's all part of the grand plan, the Ladybug Execution. Let me introduce you, to my foreign friend, He's happy to be here, he's from a strange land. We've never seen, the likes of him before, Exotic and pretty, and so we want more. Oddly it seems, on our soil he thrives, He's started a family, his ranks multiplied. We feel so guilty, inviting him in, He's just so damn pretty, to kill him's a sin. And yet still he prospers, while we fight to survive, And so now he's evil, and we're justified. And we're justified. And we're justified. Tell us they bite, so it's O.K. to kill them, It's all part of the grand plan, the ladybug execution. Megan Benjafield CHORDS: D - C - G ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:15:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, the flurry of responses to this question indicates clearly that boasting poems are well attested in many places. It is certainly a prominent genre in Indo-European poetry: beside the Russian and Greek traditions already mentioned, Old Norse and Celtic poetries are rich in boasting poems. The name of the Old Norse god of poetry, Bragi, used to be etymologized as "bragger." I think that this is a folk etymology, but in my view it is a telling one. Bly, Hillman, and Meade, in their admittedly very new-ageish anthology *Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart*, referred to this genre as "the 'I am" tradition." If I might be permitted to brag, I have offered an alternative name for this genre, which I think is widespread throughout world folklore and poetic traditions [including, for example, Jesus' "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, that which is, and that which was, and that which is to come, the Almighty...." Well, I know of African, Hawaiian, Native American samples as well as the Indo-European ones. But my main interest has been the extensive evidence of the genre in India, from the Vedas to the Bhagavad Gita. Walter Ong, the Jesuit who productively explored the technologies and psychologies of oral poetries, argued that oral poetries tended to be agonistic in style, which means that boasting in such cultures was a matter of establishing the validity, the authority, of one's voice. Africans who found themselves trapped within the vicious network of the western slave trade had to establish their voice by humbly "boasting" of their sincerity, and of their moral integrity, before anyone would listen to them. In an article published in a journal called *History of Religions* [Number 37.2, 1997] entitled "Ahamkara and atmastuti: Self-Assertion and Impersonation in the Rgveda", I gave the genre a Sanskrit name: ahamkara. It means something like "ego-performance" or "ego-ritual." That, it seems to me, is what boasting is. To boast is to assert one's right to speak. It is all about establishing the ego as a speaker. In this article I refer to and quote the Nikki Giovanni poem already mentioned, a Diane Di Prima poem of the same genre, and to a Sharon Olds poem called "The Language of the Brag." To my knowledge, no one of any wsdom whatsoever has adopted my proposal that this well-established genre of world literature be labelled with this Sanskrit name. Vedicists nevertheless have recognized its value with regard to the Vedic material. Well, what name would the members of this list prefer to my stupidly obscure Sanskrit name? George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:59:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: rivera piece... Comments: To: men2@columbia.edu In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:49 PM -0400 4/24/02, Millie Niss wrote: ...I am a woman & I know I got higher praise because I was a woman... wow! can i move to your planet? here in my department, women faculty hired after 1985 are thought of as little satans incarnate... and we have one half-time african-americanist, who, because of the "hostile climate" spends all his time in his other dept. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:51:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT George Thompson, If ahamkara "means something like 'ego-performance' or 'ego-ritual'," then I think the latter encompass too much, and too broadly, to describe exclusively and specifically the brag. "Ego" even is complex to translate into the English sandwidg, let alone Ingwidge poetry. Stirner's egoist, _The Egoist_, Mac Low's "ego" that is bumped from predetermined text-generating procedures, Olson's "lyrical interference of the ego" (which should have actually been written as "egoistical interference of the lyric"), these are all different, as are you in your modesty. Louis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:54:38 +0100 Reply-To: Robin Hamilton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "George Thompson" > Well, what name would the members of this list prefer to my stupidly obscure > Sanskrit name? Flyting? RH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:18:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: a few MORE thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Breaking for a second from this discussion of LP specifically... For clarification Wystan: are you suggesting difficulty and difference are linked? underreading/misreading/miscommunication all have their foils in authoritative discourse, and that discourse is all too often used to establish hierarchies and power differences. such that helping hands come to be suspect. gathering the untended flock from their play... showing the light to the unillumined... I will help you because I am smarter and you are wrong... mis/un are sites of investigation because they move behind and beyond the authority of logical intention, and can sometimes open up more possibilities than a helping hand, no matter how sincere, could. they also have the potential for opening up a dialogue instead of an instructional (often reified) monologue<<< read that to mean lecture. If I'm wrong let me know... J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" To: Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:17 PM Subject: Re: a few thoughts > Dear Mark, > Thanks for the few thoughts. My thought on them just now is that > what you describe--and others--is an unremarkable process not specific to > 'L= poetry' by which some texts or discourses said/thought to be new are > assimilated, i.e. communicated, or disseminated, i.e. enter into > circulation. You speak of 'academic and cultural reception'. > > > The process always seems to me marked, may even be characterized,by > underreading and misreadings, i.e. by miscommunication, > misunderstanding. Miscommunication is motivated, designed to reduce > difference to sameness--Millie Niss's post was asking us to help her > do just that. But to help her would would not be any help. > Yet, there is no escape, it is a question of managing the process; > teaching is a matter of that--how much difficulty, how much difference > can a student be exposed to, before a helping hand is offered? > Wystan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark DuCharme [mailto:markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM] > Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 2:31 p.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: a few thoughts > > > I'll try to pull together a response to various threads in this ongoing > discussion. I'm doing this mostly from memory after having read & deleted > many posts, so apologies if you feel I've misrepresented or misattributed > something you said. > > I believe Laura Fargas asked whether anyone could articulate an aesthetic > for judging which L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poems are better than others. I don't > believe anyone can, in part because I read the moves to politicize poetry's > formal apparatus & historicize its reception into a larger network of social > relations, as a rejection of aesthetic criteria as such. (Or, the rejection > of aesthetic criteria as ~primarily~ important). If you bracket off this > rejection & attempt to re-aestheticize that body of work, then Language > Poetry doesn't make much sense, or that is, retain the same relevance. > > Yet the situation is a little more complicated than that. In her post, the > absense of a criterion is linked to the old saw "I know what I like." If > "knowing" what you like suggests an uncritical response, I'd say that it's > nearly impossible to have a coherent critical response to something as > omnipresent & generic-- in the sense of its academic & cultural reception-- > as "Language Poetry" has become. (Surely this was the impetus behind Kasey > Mohammed's playful post, or at least as I would read it). On the other hand > if she had asked, can anyone articulate why _My Life_ (for example) remains > a worthwhile text, I'd bet she would have gotten dozens of thoughtful > replies. Yet to turn the question on its head-- I'd like to know which of > us ~doesn't~ "know what she likes." And which comes first-- the "liking" or > the critical response? Who other than some poor graduate student would > invest more than a pale degree of energy & attention upon some work they > didn't care about? > > Joe Amato says that L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry must still be very relevant, & as > evidence he points to all the recent posts on the subject. Well I agree, > Joe, it's still relevant, but I'd also ask, is it the ~work~ that's relevant > to the one posting, or the idea of the work, or its reception in one form or > another. I think that Bill Austin has the last word here, when he writes, > "Critics find the [LP] movement innovative. The originators are celebrated, > ergo their writing ascends, not because of its aesthetic merits, but because > it is valued as first." And who can argue with him, except perhaps to note > some of the poets, like MacLow, Coolidge, Cage, Spicer, Stein & Zukofsky, > who came before the firsts. (And yes, I'm aware that it's not the same > thing as *valued* as first: a clever distinction, Bill). > > I'm not trying to be skeptical here-- or if I am, it is not toward the > writers & writing grouped under the banner of "L=A=N=G=U=A=N=G=E Poetry," > but rather toward what I'm calling here its academic & cultural reception. > Ultimately, Bill's analysis is irrefutable, while it also suggests that > what's most "relevant" to us may be the poetics of the Kings of the Hill. > One of the problems attendant with the Kings-of-the-Hill line of thought is > that it reinscribes the imperatives of economic & cultural forces we would > otherwise critique, but in this case shifts the marginally favored position > to some ironic heirs apparent. Winner take all: well fortunately that's > ~not~ it. In the end, I like and most agree with mIEKAL's post-- just in > the sense of attending to the small l's, to READING outside the conditions > of institutional acceptance. Poetry-- David Hess is right-- is larger than > these games; I wonder if any of us is able to articulate how & in what > sense. > > Cheers, > > Mark DuCharme > > > > > > > > > > 'poetry because things say' > > -Bernadette Mayer > > > http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm > > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 02:15:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: a few thoughts MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT One of the things that has filled me inbox over time on this list are the glimmers of academic, cultural, and poetry jockeying I am at times able to witness - as in the recent LP flurry. Not as bad as usingor misusing banishment as a badge of glory, certainly. While i can wish for a return to announcements and engaged discussion of actual poetry and poetics, such is human nature in all its glory, I guess. tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:54:03 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: a few MORE thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" so let me clarify. Teaching. Student picks up a poem and sets about reading it in terms of poems she/he is familiar with. This does not work; either it is evident during the process, or the assignment comes back with a bad grade. The poem is too different. You said yourself in a previous post that where LP failed is in content. Now that's quite amazing to me. First, as you know, 'content' has moved house, it's not where it was before but that does not mean its left town. When the reading 'doesn't work' it will often be because it seems the meaning has left town. (I'd like to see more discussion about the kinds of content LP has returned to poetry). What I am saying is that I will try to help the student out of that bind, with another poem that is somewhere between 'the model' she is working with and the one that has stumped her. For example, a poem by Bernadette Mayer, of some Ron Silliman. Or, I will offer some generalisations about the new 'model', a different set of 'rules' or conventions that are at work in the practice, and in this way I'm doing something like Millie Niss was asking for: a category, a definition. As a way past that difficulty. In these terms, then, difference and difficulty are linked--of course, they aren't always or necessarily. What we have here are two linked kinds of 'under-reading',the student's and my own. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: jason christie [mailto:jasonc@TELUSPLANET.NET] Sent: Friday, 26 April 2002 3:18 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: a few MORE thoughts Breaking for a second from this discussion of LP specifically... For clarification Wystan: are you suggesting difficulty and difference are linked? underreading/misreading/miscommunication all have their foils in authoritative discourse, and that discourse is all too often used to establish hierarchies and power differences. such that helping hands come to be suspect. gathering the untended flock from their play... showing the light to the unillumined... I will help you because I am smarter and you are wrong... mis/un are sites of investigation because they move behind and beyond the authority of logical intention, and can sometimes open up more possibilities than a helping hand, no matter how sincere, could. they also have the potential for opening up a dialogue instead of an instructional (often reified) monologue<<< read that to mean lecture. If I'm wrong let me know... J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" To: Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:17 PM Subject: Re: a few thoughts > Dear Mark, > Thanks for the few thoughts. My thought on them just now is that > what you describe--and others--is an unremarkable process not specific to > 'L= poetry' by which some texts or discourses said/thought to be new are > assimilated, i.e. communicated, or disseminated, i.e. enter into > circulation. You speak of 'academic and cultural reception'. > > > The process always seems to me marked, may even be characterized,by > underreading and misreadings, i.e. by miscommunication, > misunderstanding. Miscommunication is motivated, designed to reduce > difference to sameness--Millie Niss's post was asking us to help her > do just that. But to help her would would not be any help. > Yet, there is no escape, it is a question of managing the process; > teaching is a matter of that--how much difficulty, how much difference > can a student be exposed to, before a helping hand is offered? > Wystan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark DuCharme [mailto:markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM] > Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 2:31 p.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: a few thoughts > > > I'll try to pull together a response to various threads in this ongoing > discussion. I'm doing this mostly from memory after having read & deleted > many posts, so apologies if you feel I've misrepresented or misattributed > something you said. > > I believe Laura Fargas asked whether anyone could articulate an aesthetic > for judging which L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poems are better than others. I don't > believe anyone can, in part because I read the moves to politicize poetry's > formal apparatus & historicize its reception into a larger network of social > relations, as a rejection of aesthetic criteria as such. (Or, the rejection > of aesthetic criteria as ~primarily~ important). If you bracket off this > rejection & attempt to re-aestheticize that body of work, then Language > Poetry doesn't make much sense, or that is, retain the same relevance. > > Yet the situation is a little more complicated than that. In her post, the > absense of a criterion is linked to the old saw "I know what I like." If > "knowing" what you like suggests an uncritical response, I'd say that it's > nearly impossible to have a coherent critical response to something as > omnipresent & generic-- in the sense of its academic & cultural reception-- > as "Language Poetry" has become. (Surely this was the impetus behind Kasey > Mohammed's playful post, or at least as I would read it). On the other hand > if she had asked, can anyone articulate why _My Life_ (for example) remains > a worthwhile text, I'd bet she would have gotten dozens of thoughtful > replies. Yet to turn the question on its head-- I'd like to know which of > us ~doesn't~ "know what she likes." And which comes first-- the "liking" or > the critical response? Who other than some poor graduate student would > invest more than a pale degree of energy & attention upon some work they > didn't care about? > > Joe Amato says that L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry must still be very relevant, & as > evidence he points to all the recent posts on the subject. Well I agree, > Joe, it's still relevant, but I'd also ask, is it the ~work~ that's relevant > to the one posting, or the idea of the work, or its reception in one form or > another. I think that Bill Austin has the last word here, when he writes, > "Critics find the [LP] movement innovative. The originators are celebrated, > ergo their writing ascends, not because of its aesthetic merits, but because > it is valued as first." And who can argue with him, except perhaps to note > some of the poets, like MacLow, Coolidge, Cage, Spicer, Stein & Zukofsky, > who came before the firsts. (And yes, I'm aware that it's not the same > thing as *valued* as first: a clever distinction, Bill). > > I'm not trying to be skeptical here-- or if I am, it is not toward the > writers & writing grouped under the banner of "L=A=N=G=U=A=N=G=E Poetry," > but rather toward what I'm calling here its academic & cultural reception. > Ultimately, Bill's analysis is irrefutable, while it also suggests that > what's most "relevant" to us may be the poetics of the Kings of the Hill. > One of the problems attendant with the Kings-of-the-Hill line of thought is > that it reinscribes the imperatives of economic & cultural forces we would > otherwise critique, but in this case shifts the marginally favored position > to some ironic heirs apparent. Winner take all: well fortunately that's > ~not~ it. In the end, I like and most agree with mIEKAL's post-- just in > the sense of attending to the small l's, to READING outside the conditions > of institutional acceptance. Poetry-- David Hess is right-- is larger than > these games; I wonder if any of us is able to articulate how & in what > sense. > > Cheers, > > Mark DuCharme > > > > > > > > > > 'poetry because things say' > > -Bernadette Mayer > > > http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm > > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:00:45 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: a few thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey, Thomas, I thought Kasey's extended piece was much more than 'jockeying' --same goes for Barrett's question and Kasey's response. This satisfies my expectations of engaged disucssion of poetry and poetics, whets my appetite. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Bell [mailto:trbell@COMCAST.NET] Sent: Friday, 26 April 2002 7:16 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: a few thoughts One of the things that has filled me inbox over time on this list are the glimmers of academic, cultural, and poetry jockeying I am at times able to witness - as in the recent LP flurry. Not as bad as usingor misusing banishment as a badge of glory, certainly. While i can wish for a return to announcements and engaged discussion of actual poetry and poetics, such is human nature in all its glory, I guess. tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 00:21:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Constructive Criticism: A 'Political' Poem, 'Love' Poem and 'Another Dick Poem' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit would Harold Bloom be into these? DINNER AND A MOVIE Everything around here is a dinner and a movie you gotta think of ideas get arrested on your first date the Crimethinc folks say could they be right? in a jail cell down at the station you shall love kiss for the first no--last time start a riot by holding hands prisons are sexy is that what they're saying? the romance of crime! oh I wish I could remember I wish I had a past that was dangerous still could get me caught send in the dogs! put my face on TV parade me before the populace with my head bowed I'll yell to blind dates with the chance of fate 'Wake up! sleepy prisoneers, everything around here's a dinner and a movie!' TELEPHONE BILL Unlocatable the pain of love when your lover lies across the country and cannot hear your every sigh cannot feel the close goodbye ANOTHER DICK POEM Have you seen the commercial with the Playboy playmate lounging poolside with her little bottle of Longitude? (as opposed to Latitude which would be for width or is it girth?) What could possibly make the penis grow bigger, pack on the pounds is it a common weed? something in your backyard the Heavenly Father put on this Earth for all to share? Or is it a man-made chemical cooked up by the synthetic God of Dick in some frothing beaker, a heat-resistant test tube veined with sterilized pipes? I think it's harvested from an exotic plant where the big dick people live a phallus-shaped stalk that stands up when touched and lies down when alone shooting out sticky pollen when you bend down to sniff it last line last line last line last line last line last line last line last line last line last line ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:00:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: What is Language Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I. , as "poetry" doesn't really exist. Unless it's the "evaluation" of the/this cultural machinery by the/this/now dislocated opacity of the art act itself. Especially with all those equal signs. It's a descriptive term only. Unless it's the "evaluation" of the/this cultural machinery by the/this/now dislocated opacity of the art act itself. , as "poetry" orange really exist. It's a descriptive term orange. Unless it's the "orange" of the/this cultural machinery by the/this orange dislocated orange of the art act itself. Especially with all those equal signs Nectarine a descriptive term orange. Unless nectarine kiwi "orange" breadfruit kiwi tangelo cultural machinery loquat kiwi/tangelo/orange dislocated orange breadfruit kiwi art act itself. , grapefruit "poetry" orange really tangelo. It's a descriptive term orange. Unless nectarine kiwi "orange" breadfruit kiwi tangelo cultural machinery loquat kiwi/tangelo/orange dislocated orange breadfruit kiwi art act itself. Especially with all those equal signs. It's a descriptive term only. Unless it's the "evaluation" of the/this cultural machinery by the/this/now dislocated opacity of the art act itself. 'as "poetry" doesn't really exist. Especially with all those equal signs. II. Ouch. Who wants to tackle THAT one? I wish people would use them more often. All of this is just "maybe." Or is it "I know it when I see it" -- ? I wish people would use them more often. Ouch. Orange wants to tackle THAT orange? Or is it "I orange it when I see it" -- ? I wish orange would use them orange often. All breadfruit tangelo tangelo just "maybe." Or tangelo tangerine "Kumquat orange tangerine when Kumquat see tangerine" -- ? Kumquat tangelo orange would use kiwi orange breadfruit. Ouch. Orange wants apple tackle PERSIMMON orange? Or is it "I orange it when I see it" -- ? Kumquat tangelo orange would use kiwi orange breadfruit. All of this is just "maybe." Or is it "I know it when I see it" -- ? I wish people would use them more often. Ouch. Who wants to tackle THAT one? All of this is just "maybe." III. (& as a political one) The concept of evaluation doesn't enter, that I've found. Quite beautiful, even. nearly impossible to use when actually speaking The concept of evaluation doesn't enter, that I've found. (& as a political orange) nearly orange to use when actually speaking The concept orange evaluation orange enter, that I've found. Quite beautiful, even. apple be nearly orange apple use when actually speaking Kiwi concept orange evaluation orange enter, persimmon Kumquat found. (& grapefruit a political orange) nearly orange to use when actually speaking Kiwi concept orange evaluation orange enter, persimmon Kumquat found. Quite beautiful, even. The concept of evaluation doesn't enter, that I've found. nearly impossible to use when actually speaking (& as a political one) Quite beautiful, even. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:15:36 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Montel & Language Poetry In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In effect, it is the research (and the putting into practice) of a > _dys-writing_, susceptible to pressing with all its weight on language (the > instrument, up to today, best adapted to circulation and therefore to > production), to scour language to make apparent its skeleton. This skeleton > is what Marx calls the central (the middle) discourse and that he defines as > follows: _Circulation is the movement that makes general alienation appear > as general appropriation, and vice versa. > This constitutes our own social command_. Hi Louis, this take on 'circulation' has put a brick in the road of my morning. I just rode over that on my bike and it's buckled my leading wheel. I wonder here for other's what this take (ache) on circulation might imply? crashing over and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:21:53 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: a few MORE thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now Wystan and List. What I think (I'm probably a bit off beam but it doesnt matter, it gives me a "start point") that what Wystan is saying here is that when we read certain kinds of poetry - let say we are reading Jacob (for me that means the translation availalble at the Auck Uni and I've probably copied it ) of his - is it the Pearl and the Oyster, and were are young and we've read Keats and so on and maybe even Eliot and some of say Ted Hughes and so on:whammo! what the hell's this all about.....the answer is the same as reading language poetry...now eg a great book or work for me is Silliman's "Paradise" or "Tchanting" and there's "My Life" and Barrett Watten's work and so on: now...it becomes a case of on one level "acclimatising" to this kind of thing (now many years ago a friend of my father gave me a book of e e cummings....I'd never heard of him, but it was a kind of shock: the most radical poets I knew then were Eliot and Thomas (Dylan) .. but not long after that I "checked out " of poetry for some time...but nowadays cummings...radical as he may have been...now seems quite tame: now that aspect,tthe shock of the new, the ostranie, is important: but on "first looking into Silliman's 'In the American Tree' " many years after, there was a similar shock: now at this point people either reject the strangeness totally or embrace it...of course some are indifferent or go elsewhere....but the other point is that poetry, language invention, however you style it, must continually change and offer up new ways into (in a way the same "content"..but its more subtle than that) ... we need to see that various language practices -whether we we call it Language Poetry poetry or not are always, if they are to pierce to that central significance of things and what we are (and this is where language is important because we are - not made by perhaps - but inextricably connected to the language process) or experience: which in fact is what we I feel "should be" as poets: but what happens is that we are always, as literature advances - or "moves" or "lives' - so to speak: and art, music and literature are significant in a way science (immensely valuable as it is or can be) can never be: all Scientists can do about 'reality' is to accumulate dull dry facts: a la Gradgrind, and sub speciae aeternitatis, this is hopeless. Now, I'll leave aside the importance of the polyvocal, , mutlt-layed, multi-levellic, polyvocal, processional, and other approaches that language poetry has extended for now. But lets look at Coolidge (and someone compared making language poetry to the way jazz was improvised - now bear in mind that all music was originally, including the so-called "classical music" ... Liszt could improvise whole concertos (or sonatas so extarordinary they were like symphonies) .. now Coolidge has/had a jazz background....in his Polaroid one sees this improvisatory, in my opinion true musical or "instinctual" process like a river of words and ideas (although the ideas are not logically proccessional or logically progressive as such): this is a kind of writing unlike the more deliberative works of other language poets: so one person may hate Coolidge going on and on, but he freedom is gained, and if we turn to Heijinian ... we are really in the same realm as any great poem, or any beautiful enigma, we can only find "ways of reading these texts" but without the capacity for "negative capabitily" all knowledehge of modern philosophy, the political signification of literature,and theory, is of no avail. Useless? No. Quie the opposite: the language poets are in fact continuing and greatly developing the critical/processional aspect of literature which has been with us for ever: eg I dont know much of Aristotle, and I'm pretty shaky on Coleridge: but the Romantics without Coleridge's great theoretical work is dead language, and Aristotle is a part of poetry and drama: that it and other writings and commentaries (which critiques arguments commentaries are always there - implied or expressly expressed)... and what is often overlooked is that a theoretical proces always acompanies the practice of lit: its seen eg in Williams "Spring and All" with the Prose and poetry sections, and even in Lowell. and of "Life Studies" in the magnificent ramblings of Olson, O'Hara is a theoretician with his heart (Reverdy) in his pocket, and part of his theory leads him into his influence on Ashbery toward including "popular culture"...someone who is agressively "traditional" like a New Formalist, is still reacting to theoretical positions: and the language poets focus in on the preposition, the syntax, and so on, the way by "atomising" them "new" meanings (or ways of seeing into the old or ways of refreshing the dead into life with the blood of slain life as in The Odyssey: the theoretical is liberating - but we learn ways to 'read' language poetry, but soon its not enough to use only the armory of such things as 'parataxis', or metonymy, or the concept of process: we have to revisit these ideas with new "takes"...it is de rigueur soon that all we can gain are "ways in" or "approaches", and as we enter the (truly new, truly innovative thing (text or whatever))Z: it leaps sneeringly away with new devices and misleadings like The Joker, and like all "great" literature (we cant even define that: I can only assert its possible existence - hence our irritation at too much canon-making, even if we a rather like old Harold Bloom....admire his love of words...) we are confronted and mostly baffled by the eternally recreated mystery of words and winds and nusic that screams always out there, stinulating, provoking: always beyond us. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" To: Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:54 PM Subject: Re: a few MORE thoughts > so let me clarify. > > > Teaching. Student picks up a poem and sets about reading it in terms of > poems she/he is familiar with. This does not work; either it is evident > during the process, or the assignment comes back with a bad grade. The poem > is too different. You said yourself in a previous post that where LP failed > is in content. Now that's quite amazing to me. > First, as you know, 'content' has moved house, it's not where it was before > but that does not mean its left town. When the reading 'doesn't work' it > will often be because it seems the meaning has left town. (I'd like to see > more discussion about the kinds of content LP has returned to poetry). What > I am saying is that I will try to help the student out of that bind, with > another poem that is somewhere between 'the model' she is working with and > the one that has stumped her. For example, a poem by Bernadette Mayer, of > some Ron Silliman. Or, I will offer some generalisations about the new > 'model', a different set of 'rules' or conventions that are at work in the > practice, and in this way I'm doing something like Millie Niss was asking > for: a category, a definition. As a way past that difficulty. In these > terms, then, difference and difficulty are linked--of course, they aren't > always or necessarily. What we have here are two linked kinds of > 'under-reading',the student's and my own. > Wystan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jason christie [mailto:jasonc@TELUSPLANET.NET] > Sent: Friday, 26 April 2002 3:18 p.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: a few MORE thoughts > > > Breaking for a second from this discussion of LP specifically... > > For clarification Wystan: > > are you suggesting difficulty and difference are linked? > underreading/misreading/miscommunication all have their foils in > authoritative discourse, and that discourse is all too often used to > establish hierarchies and power differences. such that helping hands come > to be suspect. gathering the untended flock from their play... showing the > light to the unillumined... I will help you because I am smarter and you > are wrong... mis/un are sites of investigation because they move behind and > beyond the authority of logical intention, and can sometimes open up more > possibilities than a helping hand, no matter how sincere, could. they also > have the potential for opening up a dialogue instead of an instructional > (often reified) monologue<<< read that to mean lecture. > > If I'm wrong let me know... > > J > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: a few thoughts > > > > Dear Mark, > > Thanks for the few thoughts. My thought on them just now is that > > what you describe--and others--is an unremarkable process not specific to > > 'L= poetry' by which some texts or discourses said/thought to be new are > > assimilated, i.e. communicated, or disseminated, i.e. enter into > > circulation. You speak of 'academic and cultural reception'. > > > > > > The process always seems to me marked, may even be characterized,by > > underreading and misreadings, i.e. by miscommunication, > > misunderstanding. Miscommunication is motivated, designed to reduce > > difference to sameness--Millie Niss's post was asking us to help her > > do just that. But to help her would would not be any help. > > Yet, there is no escape, it is a question of managing the process; > > teaching is a matter of that--how much difficulty, how much difference > > can a student be exposed to, before a helping hand is offered? > > Wystan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark DuCharme [mailto:markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM] > > Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 2:31 p.m. > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: a few thoughts > > > > > > I'll try to pull together a response to various threads in this ongoing > > discussion. I'm doing this mostly from memory after having read & deleted > > many posts, so apologies if you feel I've misrepresented or misattributed > > something you said. > > > > I believe Laura Fargas asked whether anyone could articulate an aesthetic > > for judging which L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poems are better than others. I don't > > believe anyone can, in part because I read the moves to politicize > poetry's > > formal apparatus & historicize its reception into a larger network of > social > > relations, as a rejection of aesthetic criteria as such. (Or, the > rejection > > of aesthetic criteria as ~primarily~ important). If you bracket off this > > rejection & attempt to re-aestheticize that body of work, then Language > > Poetry doesn't make much sense, or that is, retain the same relevance. > > > > Yet the situation is a little more complicated than that. In her post, > the > > absense of a criterion is linked to the old saw "I know what I like." If > > "knowing" what you like suggests an uncritical response, I'd say that it's > > nearly impossible to have a coherent critical response to something as > > omnipresent & generic-- in the sense of its academic & cultural > reception-- > > as "Language Poetry" has become. (Surely this was the impetus behind > Kasey > > Mohammed's playful post, or at least as I would read it). On the other > hand > > if she had asked, can anyone articulate why _My Life_ (for example) > remains > > a worthwhile text, I'd bet she would have gotten dozens of thoughtful > > replies. Yet to turn the question on its head-- I'd like to know which of > > us ~doesn't~ "know what she likes." And which comes first-- the "liking" > or > > the critical response? Who other than some poor graduate student would > > invest more than a pale degree of energy & attention upon some work they > > didn't care about? > > > > Joe Amato says that L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry must still be very relevant, & > as > > evidence he points to all the recent posts on the subject. Well I agree, > > Joe, it's still relevant, but I'd also ask, is it the ~work~ that's > relevant > > to the one posting, or the idea of the work, or its reception in one form > or > > another. I think that Bill Austin has the last word here, when he writes, > > "Critics find the [LP] movement innovative. The originators are > celebrated, > > ergo their writing ascends, not because of its aesthetic merits, but > because > > it is valued as first." And who can argue with him, except perhaps to > note > > some of the poets, like MacLow, Coolidge, Cage, Spicer, Stein & Zukofsky, > > who came before the firsts. (And yes, I'm aware that it's not the same > > thing as *valued* as first: a clever distinction, Bill). > > > > I'm not trying to be skeptical here-- or if I am, it is not toward the > > writers & writing grouped under the banner of "L=A=N=G=U=A=N=G=E Poetry," > > but rather toward what I'm calling here its academic & cultural reception. > > Ultimately, Bill's analysis is irrefutable, while it also suggests that > > what's most "relevant" to us may be the poetics of the Kings of the Hill. > > One of the problems attendant with the Kings-of-the-Hill line of thought > is > > that it reinscribes the imperatives of economic & cultural forces we would > > otherwise critique, but in this case shifts the marginally favored > position > > to some ironic heirs apparent. Winner take all: well fortunately that's > > ~not~ it. In the end, I like and most agree with mIEKAL's post-- just in > > the sense of attending to the small l's, to READING outside the conditions > > of institutional acceptance. Poetry-- David Hess is right-- is larger > than > > these games; I wonder if any of us is able to articulate how & in what > > sense. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mark DuCharme > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'poetry because things say' > > > > -Bernadette Mayer > > > > > > http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm > > > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:10:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Allen Ginsberg Trust website is up and running MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subj: Allenginsberg.org launch =20 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 Allen Ginsberg Trust/PO Box 582/Stuyvesant Station/N.Y.C., N.Y. 10009 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 212 358 9534=A0=A0 (fax) 212 358 9529 =A0 For Immediate Release=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0www.allenginsberg.org =A0 Contacts=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Bob Rosenthal=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 Rich Forhez The Allen Ginsberg Trust=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 dataWonk, Inc. 212-358-9534 / phone=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 415-495-1695 / phone 212-358-9529 / fax=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 415-276-1= 878 / fax bob@allenginsberg.org=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 rich@datawonk.com www.allenginsberg.org=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 www.datawonk.co= m =A0 =A0 Allen Ginsberg Trust launches Web site as platform for sharing text, photos,= =20 hand-written documents, and audio and video materials representing Allen=20 Ginsberg's life and times.=20 New York, NY - March 28, 2002 - The Allen Ginsberg Trust of New York and Web= =20 development firm dataWonk, Inc. of San Francisco announce the launch of=20 www.allenginsberg.org. "One of Ginsberg's highest callings was to teach, and= =20 the Web as a medium offers unprecedented ability to disseminate and impart,"= =20 says Trust director Bob Rosenthal.=A0 He continues, "Allen Ginsberg changed=20= the=20 American language through his poetry. He infused it with a neo-prophetic ton= e=20 and charged it with candor that even still never bows or winks. He injected=20 Eastern meditative spirituality into the American voice. He jostled us=20 readers out of our daydreams and galvanized us to enact our own liberation.=20 Ginsberg understood that the power of poetry is in its powerlessness; no=20 other poet after Walt Whitman could so awaken the soul." Ginsberg, with Jack= =20 Kerouac, William Burroughs, Gregory Corso, Peter Orlovsky, and others, at=20 times shocked a nation and the world with their free-spirited behavior and=20 writings as they met and became friends during America's post-war economic=20 boom. In stark contrast to the country's cultural shift to conservatism,=20 their travels, their antics, their writings, their highly publicized=20 experimentation with psychedelic drugs, all gave voice to one generation=20 while terrifying another. From state courtrooms to the halls of congressiona= l=20 and senatorial hearings to the U.S. Supreme Court, the Beats - as they becam= e=20 known - formed the very foundation for not just a major literary movement bu= t=20 social responsibility, political activism and liberal thought around the=20 world during the later half of the 20th century.=20 At the heart of the site are two exciting features: The Lifeline, a=20 Flash-based chronology of important events about Ginsberg and=A0 the Beats,=20= and=20 the Library, a repository intended for research that includes manuscripts,=20 text, audio and video clips, photographs and art works.=A0 Launching with a=20 modest volume, the Library is intended to grow substantially over time to=20 included thousands of items, "...so that those wishing to research Ginsberg'= s=20 life and work would have ample fodder for their own interpretive experience.= "=20 Please contact Robert Rosenthal at The Allen Ginsberg Trust (212-358-9534 by= =20 phone, 212-358-9529 by fax or bob@allenginsberg.org by email) or Rich Forhez= =20 at dataWonk, Inc.(415-495-1695 by phone, 415-276-1878 by fax or=20 rich@datawonk.com by email) for more information.=A0=20 The Allen Ginsberg Trust was established a few years prior to Ginsberg's=20 death to manage the tangible and non-tangible assets left behind by the=20 famous Beat poet in an effort to "...continually share his life-work to=20 reveal the intelligence and beauty of his aim of increasing consciousness on= =20 the planet."=20 The firm dataWonk, Inc. provides Web and e-commerce strategy, design and=20 development solutions for business-to-business and business-to-consumer=20 challenges.=20 =A0 =A0 # # # ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:26:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: Dr. King, Stone Mountain & UN In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poems Inspired by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's "I Have a Dream" being read= on Stone Mountain for the United Nations by Atlanta School Children. Students from Atlanta's public schools will climb Stone Mountain on April= 27, 2002 to read poems inspired by Dr. Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dre= am" speech followed by a larger reading at the historic Ebenezer Baptist Chur= ch where Dr. King preached. The reading at the Ebenezer Baptist Church will= also feature prominent poets Cheryl-Floyd Miller, Teri Elam-Blanchard and= environmentalist Hugh Morton. The event called Poetry on the Peaks was or= ganized after the United Nations General Assembly declared 2002 as the "Internati= onal Year of Mountains (IYM)" to increase international awareness of the globa= l importance of mountain ecosystems. To further this aim, Dialogue Through Poetry have setup poetry readings on twenty-four mountaintops around the world including the Seven Summits (the highest peaks on the seven contine= nts). The event is co-organized by the Martin Luther King National Historic Sit= e, Megan Sexton with Five Point magazines at Georgia State University, and Dialogue Through Poetry. The reading on Stone Mountain will take place on April 27 at 12 PM and the free reading at the Ebenezer Baptist Church will occur at 3 PM. Other participants include editors from Suien magazine in Japan who will climb Mt. Fuji and read a poem by Native American poet Joy Harjo. Profess= ional mountain climbers working with Alpine Ascents International and Internati= onal Mountain Guides will read poems by Pablo Neruda, Walt Whitman, Gary Snyde= r, Rumi, Wislawa Szymborska, William Blake, Han Shan and many others on moun= tains throughout 2002. Lastly, to honor Pablo Neruda and celebrate IYM, a petit= ion has been submitted to International Astronomical Union (IAU) to name a cr= ater on Mercury after the beloved Chilean poet. "As we begin commemorating the International Year of Mountains, conflict may be the single greatest obstacle to achieving our goals. Without peace= , we cannot reduce poverty. Without peace, we cannot ensure secure food sup= plies. Without peace, we cannot even consider sustainable development," commente= d Jacques Diouf, Director-General of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) at the 2001 global launch of International Ye= ar of Mountains at the UN headquarters in New York City on 11 December 2001.= For more information about the programs, please visit http://www.dialogue= poetry.org and http://www.dialoguepoetry.org/mountain.htm Rattapallax Press 532 La Guardia Place Suite 353 New York, NY 10012 USA http://www.rattapallax.com http://www.dialoguepoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:26:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: Rhina P. Espaillat & Prageeta Sharma In-Reply-To: <198.6062722.29fab9bc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rhina P. Espaillat & Prageeta Sharma DATE: April 27, 2002 TIME: 2:00 pm St. Agnes Branch, 444 Amsterdam Ave., New York City FREE Rhina P. Espaillat was born in the Dominican Republic, has lived in the U. S. since the age of 7, and taught high school English in NYC for sever= al years. She writes poetry and prose both in English and in her native Span= ish. Her work has appeared in numerous magazines, including "Poetry," "Sparrow= ," "The Formalist" and "The American Scholar," as well as in some two dozen anthologies, including An Introduc-tion to Poetry (Longman, 2001) edited by X. J. Kennedy and Dana Gioia, and The Beacon Best of 2001 (Beacon, 200= 1) edited by Junot Diaz, A Formal Feeling Comes (Story Line Press, 1994) In Other Words: Literature by Latinas of the United States (Arte Publico Pre= ss, 1994), and Landscapes with Women: Four American Poets (Singular Speech Pr= ess, 1999. Espaillat has four poetry collections in print: Lapsing to Grace (B= ennett & Kitchel, 1992); Where Horizons Go (Truman State University Press, 1998)= which won the 1998 T. S. Eliot Prize; "Mundo y Palabra/The World and the Word," a bilingual chapbook (Oyster River Press, 2001); and Rehearsing Ab= sence, (University of Evansville Press, 2001), which won the 2001 Richard Wilbur= Award. She also won the 1998 Howard Nemerov Award, the "Sparrow" Sonnet Prize for 1997, three yearly prizes from the Poetry Society of America, including the Cecil Hemley Memorial Award in the year 2000, and the 2001 Der-Hovanessian Translation Prize from the New England Poetry Club, among= other awards. Prageeta Sharma graduated from Brown University where she received an M.F= .A. in poetry and was awarded The Academy of American Poets prize. Her recent= work has appeared in Agni, Explosive, Shiny, The Hat, and The Poetry Proj= ect Newsletter. She is the author of Bliss to Fill. http://www.rattapallax.com Rattapallax Press 532 La Guardia Place Suite 353 New York, NY 10012 USA http://www.rattapallax.com http://www.dialoguepoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:28:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Reminder-New Films - Saturday, April 27 - Millennium Film Workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reminder: New Films - Saturday, April 27 - Millennium Film Workshop Joel Schlemowitz New Films 8:00 PM Saturday April 27, 2002 $7 Millennium Film Workshop 66 East 4th Street (between 2nd Ave and Bowery) New York City (212) 673-0090 ========================= Reverie (2001), a film in the Symbolist manner, with music by Rebecca Moore. morning poem #40 (2001), Typoclavecin Film - Variations on the Blues for JoJo #10 (2001), with poems by Wanda Phipps Bagatelle in Neon (1997), handpainted footage of neon signs, with live piano by Marisol Martinez Moving Images - the Film-Makers' Cooperative relocates (2001), shot when the Coop moved to the Clocktower Gallery, with interviews with Jonas Mekas and MM Serra All Saints Day (2001), shot simultaneously in New York and Seattle, co-maker Jon Behrens Fogg (2002) - PREMIERE . . . and more -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:31:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Call for Poetry - special section of HOW2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Posted for Camille Martin--please respond to HER, not to my address. Thanks! > Call for poetry submissions: > > I'm guest-editing a special section of the online > journal _HOW2_ on > experimental women poets of the South. I welcome > submissions of 8-12 pages > of poetry from women poets who currently reside in > Texas, Louisiana, > Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, North > Carolina, South Carolina, > Virginia, Arkansas, or Tennessee. > > The section will consist of my introductory essay > and a collection of > poetry, along with poets' statements and bios. > Statements and bios will be > requested from > contributors at a later date. > > Deadline for submissions: July 1. > > Send work or queries to Camille Martin at: > > cmarti3@LSU.EDU > > OR > > 7725 Cohn St. > New Orleans, LA 70118 > (enclose SASE) > > Please include your physical address with your > submission. > > For submission guidelines, visit the HOW2 website: > http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2/announce.html > For emailed submissions, please send, if possible, > rtf or Microsoft Word > file attachment. > > Remember to send submissions and queries to me, not > to HOW2. > > Feel free to pass this message to poets who might be > interested in > submitting work for this project. > > Thank you! > > Camille Martin > 7725 Cohn St. > New Orleans, LA 70118 > (504) 861-8832 > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:40:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: inchoate etc: popular culture n poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" this sounds self-evident, but it's amazing that not more has been written about it. i've puzzled a lot over the lack of Birmingham school-type of interest in "poetry" (compared to the Frankfurt School's interest) but have come to the tentative conclusion that poetry is too rarified a genre for cultural studies (with certain exceptions) because "genre" is not really supposed to be at issue anyway. check out andrew ross's No Respect, it's on intellectuals and popular culture in the 1950s. also marjorie levinson on elizabeth bishop (though it looks as if you have already looked into this). i've got a chapter in Dark end of the Street about poetry written by teenage girls at a GED project that draws heavily on certain kinds of newspaper reportage. paul beatty draws heavily on tv and mass culture in his books of poetry, Big Bank Take Little Bank and Joker Joker Deuce. Amiri Baraka often uses popular cultural forms or images in resistance to mass culture --an interesting move. harryette mullen uses popular culture in terms of fashion in Trimmings, and in terms of vernacular language in Muse and Drudge. John Giorno uses popular song lyrics in his staggered poems. Howl uses images of popular/mass culture all over the place ("hydrogen jukebox" being a key instance). Jack Spicer used baseball. Joseph Harrington has a new book out from Wesleyan UP on US poetry and the public sphere but most of it deals w/ the first few decades of the century. nonetheless, you might find some good methodological nuggets or general musings that would be of interest. bests, m d >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Parr" >To: >Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 2:24 AM >Subject: Inchoate inquiry... Post-war poetry and American popular culture? > > >> Hi list-- >> >> I've been working on post-WWII American poetry and thinking about a >> lense that might fit, other than the problematic and somewhat tired >> divides of Modern/Postmodern, Institutional/Regional, New Critical/Avant >> garde, etc. >> >> After WWII, America had this huge economic surge that went hand-in-hand >> with advertising, radio, movies, and the developoment of television. I >> wonder if one way to look at post-war American poetry could have to do >> with an opening-up-to/closing-off-from American mass/popular media. >> Someone like O'Hara comes right to mind-- he had this amazing ability to >> just incorporate everything into his work, and not really worry about >> the so-called high/low distinctions. Ashbery sort of did it-- willing >> to pay attention to it, but often plays with it in such a way as to >> reinterpret it as "culture," not just mass culture. The academic >> American poets of the 50's and 60's often didn't-- but they have >> moments. R. Lowell talks about his "Tudor Ford," and that's his sense >> of humor-- popular culture can "be" in his poems, but only at an ironic >> distance. Bishop plays that game, but doesn't resist basing a poem upon >> a given issue of National Geographic-- or a misreading of a NY Times >> article. >> >> Also thinking about how New Critical tenets were arguably set up to >> _resist_ popular/mass culture-- a "good" poem should be self-enclosed, >> resistant to social/cultural history-- a little encampment on the edge >> of "culture," ready to pull back if necessary. This ties into the >> literary historical angle-- "poetry" shouldn't bother with these things, >> but a novelist or playwrite can-- Pynchon is "witty" for doing it so >> often, but a poet doesn't seem to be allowed this perspective. >> >> Anyways, a first draft upon nothing maybe, but I'd love to hear from >> everyone. Or suggestions of either poets or critics I should check out. >> >> Thanks, >> James >> -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:00:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wright Laura E Subject: Opstedal, Price, Echler read in Boulder May 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII KEVIN OPSTEDAL, MICHAEL PRICE, AND MARINA ECHLER FRIDAY, MAY 3 2002 8:00 PM AT THE LEFT HAND BOOK STORE IN BOULDER 1200 PEARL ST #10 (just east of Broadway, downstairs from street level) (donations gladly accepted) Kevin Opstedal was born & raised in Venice California. His last name name is Norwegian. A retired US Army colonel at a reading in La Jolla told him that there was 1000 years of killing whales in his eyes. He took it as a compliment. Michael Price was born and raised in Boulder and is the author of Doombook. Marina Echler's background is in visual art, mostly drawing and bookmaking. She has a book coming out from Angry Dog Press and has some writing published in The Attached Document. -- Laura Wright Serials Cataloging Norlin Library, University of Colorado, Boulder (303) 492-3923 "I will have lived most of my life as a galaxy." --Henri Michaux (tr. David Ball) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:17:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grotjohn Subject: Help finding a CD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was sitting in a bar in Seattle a couple of weeks ago, and the bartender played for me a spoken word CD. He played a poem by an Asian American artist. On the bar napkin, I wrote "Broken Word," which was the title of the CD, which I think was a collection of different Asian American spoken word speakers. In any case, the napkin is all I have, and I am now far away from Seattle, so I can't go back and find the bartender, get the title, and try the rest of the northwest micro-beers. I have searched all around the internet, and have not been able to find the CD. Does anyone know about this CD, and could you backchannel the full title, label, etc., so I can find a copy? Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:32:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Help finding a CD In-Reply-To: <3CC96F72.79E0DDF5@mbc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" or frontchannel At 11:17 AM -0400 4/26/02, Bob Grotjohn wrote: >I was sitting in a bar in Seattle a couple of weeks ago, and the >bartender played for me a spoken word CD. He played a poem by an Asian >American artist. On the bar napkin, I wrote "Broken Word," which was >the title of the CD, which I think was a collection of different Asian >American spoken word speakers. In any case, the napkin is all I have, >and I am now far away from Seattle, so I can't go back and find the >bartender, get the title, and try the rest of the northwest >micro-beers. I have searched all around the internet, and have not been >able to find the CD. Does anyone know about this CD, and could you >backchannel the full title, label, etc., so I can find a copy? > >Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:44:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Gilles Deleuze In-Reply-To: <198.6062722.29fab9bc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For anyone with some French & a strong intest in the work of Gilles Deleuze: radio France Culture is broadcasting a large series of programs on/about/of Gilles Deleuze between 22 april & 5 may. Most of them can be listened to at any time as they are archived, a few are available only at the moment of broadcas Most interesting is a series of lectures by Deleuze on the Nomadology,on Leibnitz, on the Fold, etc. ZThere are also several felix Guattari archival programs worth listening to / recording. Easiest access: http://www.radio-france.fr/chaines/france-culture/speciale_deleuze/emission. php enjoy, Pierre ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 "É melhor ser cabeça de sardinha Tel: (518) 426-0433 do que traseiro de baleia" Fax: (518) 426-3722 Email: joris@ albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:48:01 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: rivera piece... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cheese Louise r u writing about there or down here sm. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:49:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: correction re: Jean-Claude Montel & Language Poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Should be, at end of Montel translation, where Chris encountered the brick: [Marx quote:] ...._Circulation is the movement that makes general alienation appear as general appropriation, and vice versa_. This constitutes our own social command. That is, Montel says the latter (in 1973). Marx invented the concept of the "social." Mayakovsky and Brik, after the Revolution, invented the concept of the "social command." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:57:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: Next week at SPT -- Henning and Jenkins -- May 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wednesday, May 1, 2002 at 7:30 pm CCAC STUDENT AWARDS READING Join us for an evening toasting and listening to exciting new writers now studying at CCAC. Cosponsored with the CCAC MFA Program in Writing. Please see our website for details. Friday, May 3, 2002 at 7:30 pm BARBARA HENNING & EDITH JENKINS Barbara Henning has two new books out from Spuyten Duyvil: the poetry collection Detective Sentences and the novel Black Lace, which Lewis Warsh says ^Óhas the power of a Depression-era Walker Evans photo.^Ô During the early nineties, Henning edited Long News in the Short Century, a journal of art and writing. She grew up in a working class suburb of Detroit; currently she lives in the East Village. Edith Jenkins is, as Tillie Olsen hails, ^Óa poet distinguished by luminous intellect, wit; passionately controlled depth and range of experience^Ô and as Carl Rakoski echoes ^Óa serious author with depth, of obvious stature.^Ô Her work encompasses the personal, the political, and the philosophic and includes the crisp, marvelous memoir Against a Field Sinister (City Lights, 1991). Her latest book, Selected Poems (Black Star Series, 2001), draws from over five decades of an activist life. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 Eighth Street San Francisco, California 94107 415/551-9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:29:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - never heard back from you never head back when you can go forward never hear back when you need to never herd back but always herd forward never hard back pain but just kept going never had back pack but carried things forward never her back but always her front going forward never ear back but on head sideways never har back har har but her front always going never ha back ha ha but always forward going front never he back he always on going never ar back but always never ending never er back but umm carrying things forward never a back but always a front ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:49:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: 26 Magazine Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Announcing the premier issue of 26, a journal of poetry and poetics. The first issue contains poems by Murilo Mendes trans. Chris Daniels, Martha Ronk, Tsering Wangmo Dhompa, Sarah Anne Cox, Kit Robinson, Norma Cole, Fanny Howe, Lisa Jarnot, Lynn Behrendt, Patrick Pritchett, Orides Fontela trans. Chris Daniels, Susan Thackrey, Rosmarie Waldrop, Rob Halpern, Patrick Durgin, E. Tracy Grinnell, Pattie McCarthy, Guy Bennett, Claudia Roquette-Pinto, Claudia Keelan, Erica Carpenter, Stephen Ratcliffe, Paul Louis Rossi trans. Guy Bennett, Colleen Lookingbill, Yvan Goll trans. Andrew Joron, Steve Dickison, Leonard Brink, and George Albon. In addition there are reviews of Beth Anderson's The Habitable World (Elena Rivera), Merle Bachman's The Opposite of Vanishing (Aidan Thompson), Dominique Fourcade's Everything Happens (Patrick Durgin), George Albon's Empire Life (Rusty Morrison) and a brief essay by Andrew Joron - Statement on War & Terrorism. 26 is co-edited by Avery E. D. Burns, Rusty Morrison, Joseph Noble, Elizabeth Robinson & Brian Strang. Cover Price is $10. Subscriptions are also available for $10yr and checks should be made out to - St. Mary's College, 26. Copies are available through Small Press Distribution. Subcriptions and submissions should be sent to: 26 P.O. Box 4450 St Mary's College Moraga CA 94575-4730 We will be reading material for the next issue until July 15th, 2002. We do not accept electronic submissions. 26 is affiliated with the St. Mary's College MFA program. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:51:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii never heard back from orange never head back when you can orange forward never hear back when you need orange never herd back but always herd forward never hard back pain but just kept orange never had back pack but carried things forward never her back but always her orange going orange never ear back but on head sideways never har back har har but her orange always going never ha back ha ha but always orange going orange never he back he always on orange never ar back but always never ending never er back but umm carrying things forward never a back but always a orange Alan Sondheim wrote: - never heard back from you never head back when you can go forward never hear back when you need to never herd back but always herd forward never hard back pain but just kept going never had back pack but carried things forward never her back but always her front going forward never ear back but on head sideways never har back har har but her front always going never ha back ha ha but always forward going front never he back he always on going never ar back but always never ending never er back but umm carrying things forward never a back but always a front --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:59:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Critical Studies of Post-Beat Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been looking for critical studies of Post-Beat Generation poets, = but haven't been found any. Does anybody know of any studies that have = been written? Please backchannel. Thanks.=20 Vernon Frazer =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:15:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Bion-ically linking to a few MORE thoughts MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've been looking again into Wilfred Bion and beckett and Bionic links on the internet linking and collaboration (In addition to the Kleinian and psychoanalytic connections to Bion he was influential in the work of the Group collaborative work centered around the U of Chicago in the 60s and 70s and still alive - Qsorts, for example) Discussions of some topics here would seem to take on the dream like character of his -K links: we love to hate you or we hatefully love you or lovngly hate? tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:38:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: POETRY PROJECT EVENTS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit POETRY PROJECT EVENTS APRIL 29, MONDAY [8:00 p.m.] JOY KATZ AND MARK TURCOTTE MAY 1, WEDNESDAY [8:00 p.m.] LAURA MORIARTY AND BRIAN KIM STEFANS MAY 6, MONDAY [8:00 p.m.] OPEN READING FOR MORE DETAILS, VISIT http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *********************** APRIL 29, MONDAY [8:00 p.m.] JOY KATZ AND MARK TURCOTTE JOY KATZ first collection of poems, Fabulae (Southern Illinois University Press, 2002), won the 2001 Crab Orchard prize. New poems appear or are forthcoming in Chelsea, LIT, Boulevard, Fence, Barrow Street, Southwest Review, and Cello Entry. MARK TURCOTTE is the author of four poetry collections, including his newest release, Exploding Chippewas (Northwestern University Press). He has received grants from the Woodcraft Circle of Native American Writing and the Wisconsin Arts Board. MAY 1, WEDNESDAY [8:00 p.m.] LAURA MORIARTY AND BRIAN KIM STEFANS LAURA MORIARTY is the author of several books including like roads (Kelsey St. Press), Rondeaux (Roof Books) and L'Archiviste (Zasterle Press). She is the Director of the American Poetry Archives at The Poetry Center at San Francisco State University. BRIAN KIM STEFANS is the author of Angry Penguins and Free Space Comix. His book of essays and poems, Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics, is forthcoming from Atelos Books. His visual poetry, including a Flash poem "The Dreamlife of Letters," can be found at http://www.ubu.com. He is also the editor of Arras magazine, http://www.arras.net. MAY 6, MONDAY [8:00 p.m.] OPEN READING Sign-up at 7:30 p.m. -- Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. Trains F, 6, N, R. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. If you are currently on our email list and would like to be on our regular mailing list (so you can receive a sample issue of The Poetry Project Newsletter for FREE), just reply to this email with your full name and address. Hope to hear from you soon!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:38:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: POETRY PROJECT ANNOUNCEMENTS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable POETRY PROJECT ANNOUNCEMENTS THE VERMONT NOTEBOOK BROADSIDE The Poetry Project will be offering a limited-edition letterpress broadside signed by John Ashbery to celebrate the republication of THE VERMONT NOTEBOOK. Measuring 19 x 15, the broadside will sell for $100. Sales from the edition will benefit the Poetry Project. To purchase a broadside, pleas= e send check or money order to: The Poetry Project, 131 E. 10th St., New York= , NY 10003. MAY ISSUE OF POETS & POEMS Featuring work by Cecilia Vicu=F1a, R. Erica Doyle, G.E. Patterson, Kevin Killian, Joan Retallack http://www.poetryproject.com/poets.html OBSCURITY LASTS FOREVER MEMORIAL HONORING JOSEPH HOLLAND CHASSLER SATURDAY, MAY 11 [2 PM] Poet, philospher and kind soul, Joseph Holland Chassler will be remembered on Saturday, May 11th, at Bowery Poetry Club, 2 PM. Joseph Holland Chassler will be remembered with readings of his works, videos of his drawings and cartoons, and performances of his songs by the band Channeling Chassler. http://www.poetryproject.com/announcements.html. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:28:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT this may be somewhat oblique to 'inchoate' but I have reason to ask where one would wander today to find an active school of poetry, assuming the NY school, SF scene, LP, etc., are dying? tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:53:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios.kozaitis@VERIZON.NET Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE In-Reply-To: <002e01c1ed82$7ded0020$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed there's always Stephen Burt's "Elliptical Poets" ;-) At 08:28 PM 4/26/2002, you wrote: >this may be somewhat oblique to 'inchoate' but I have reason to ask where >one would wander today to find an active school of poetry, assuming the NY >school, SF scene, LP, etc., are dying? > >tom bell > >&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: >Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html >Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at >http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm >Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ >Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:21:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Bion-ically linking to a few MORE thoughts In-Reply-To: <002001c1ed80$a30fc100$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII There's a list, netdynam, that I was on for a while, that studies and works through his ideas vis-a-vis the list itself. You might want to do a google.com search for it and sub - Alan Internet text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm CDROM of collected work 1994-2002 available: write sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:34:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Boston Poetry Marathon? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can the organizers of this summer's Boston Poetry Marathon please backchannel me the info? I need to pass it on to an interested party... Thanks, Arielle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:56:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE In-Reply-To: <002e01c1ed82$7ded0020$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Fish, children and disobedient dogs need schools. I'm not sure poets do. Mark At 07:28 PM 4/26/2002 -0500, you wrote: >this may be somewhat oblique to 'inchoate' but I have reason to ask where >one would wander today to find an active school of poetry, assuming the NY >school, SF scene, LP, etc., are dying? > >tom bell > >&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: >Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html >Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at >http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm >Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ >Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:45:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/25/02 10:52:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lcabri@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU writes: > George Thompson, > > If ahamkara "means something like 'ego-performance' or 'ego-ritual'," then I > think the latter encompass too much, and too broadly, to describe > exclusively and specifically the brag. "Ego" even is complex to translate > into the English sandwidg, let alone Ingwidge poetry. Stirner's egoist, _The > Egoist_, Mac Low's "ego" that is bumped from predetermined text-generating > procedures, Olson's "lyrical interference of the ego" (which should have > actually been written as "egoistical interference of the lyric"), these are > all different, as are you in your modesty. > Well, I adopted the Sanskrit term ahamkara to refer to an indigenous poetic genre [the term in fact is traditionallly used as a philosophical notion; applying it to a poetic genre is something that I have invented, for better or worse]. Is it too broad to describe the brag? Maybe. But my article is a bit more detailed than my Poetics List post was. As for the complexity of ego, whether Stirner's or Mac Low's or Olson's, or even mine own -- to be sure, egos are complex. Far be it from me to de-complex the poetic egos of such people. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:09:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: new online poetry journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tried to access this site but it doesnt seem to be going thru....mIEKAL Jonathan Minton wrote: > Word/For Word > > The first issue features poetry by Sheila Murphy, Richard Deming, David > Pavelich, Kerri Sonnenberg, Martin Corless-Smith, William Allegrezza, and > others. > > Submissions are welcomed for the second issue. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:20:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit haha the writers write the rest workshop those who can do others teach sm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 00:00:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: phenomenology of approach so far - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - (the work so far) phenomenology of approach = categories for projected text = = approaching the everglades, the city, illness, language, culture = 1 domain limited or unlimited a limited domain is inscribed with or without fuzzy boundaries. domains may be limited in sememe, space, and/or time. example: everglades bounded by hydrology, ecosystem. 2 clues and cues from immemorial past a clue is an interpretable symptom, according to a scheme based on an articulated methodology. a cue is the activation of a scheme based on an anomaly or repetitive structure within the domain. the domain in turn may be defined by clues and cues. 3 difference between clues and cues a clue is based on evidence from the past to the present; a cue is based on activation within the present. 4 relevance theory and approach clues and cues are such by virtue of relevance; theoretical methodology is part of a critical sifting apparatus. 5 top-down classification schema this follows for example category theory, chaos/fractal theories; one always already begins with pre-theoretic presuppositions. 6 wonder, innovation, contradictions beginning with a sense of awe - everything signs everything, everything inscribes. innovation in terms of heuristic projections and introjections - contradictions in terms of anomalies, revisions, recuperations, returns. 7 deep ecologies, interstitial the ecologies become perceptually deeper; gaps are filled in; one lives in depth in the glades, aware of cyclical time, anomalous events, local histories, individual plants and animals. 8 filling in the habitus from larger to smaller clues and cues - alligators and wading birds to landbirds and invertebrates for example. as one moves down in scale, identification becomes increasingly difficult, if not impossible. 9 from anomaly to behaviors and back again; behavior clusters based on attributes. or from story to structure, diachrony to synchrony, anecdote to prediction. 10 sense of occupation and intimacy inhabitation based on familiarity, familiality. 11 familiarity, familiality in the first, equivalence scripts and schemata, universals, typifications; in the second, identity scripts and experientials, individuations. 12 maternality chora and matrix - the inchoate beneath the surface of the subject. 13 deconstruction of the abject disarticulation of the abject as such and rearticulation in terms of microstructure, skein. the muck and clutter in relation to marl/peat moss and biome or flora/fauna regimes. muck and clutter as regimes. 14 phenomenology of naming following the notion of rigid designators, beginning with classification, classification experience, virtual subjectivity and its relation to concrete manifestation. 15 inarticulate inchoate maternality: see above. the proffering of languaging or template. 16 the mess and its overcoming entanglement as regime intrusions, conflicting biomes, collapse or implosion, niche-construction, problems of scale in space and time. 17 phenomenology of touch 18 recirculation of domain 19 immersive and definable structures 20 clue skeins clues related theoretically, taxonomically, in terms of typifications, taxonomies - heuristic skeins, established on the run. 21 the instrumental reason of flows and part-objects 22 gestural logics and superimpositions 23 delaying conclusions and the settling-in of elements 24 continuous processing and absorption of anomalies 25 modes of approach in space and time 26 horizons of 'natural' and 'unnatural' worlds 27 weakening of perceptual structures and responses 28 releasement and listening 29 buildings, dwellings, and habitations 30 the neighborhood 31 intersecting populations and worlds 32 phenomenology of withdrawal 33 the skein (skew-orthogonal) 34 the skein (askew and local) 35 increasing audacity and circumscription 36 the report 37 the distribution 38 the thinking of it 39 the world of it _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 01:16:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Gaughran-Perez Subject: Re: Permission for listserv cites In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit adding to that, not only in e-mail to a list of subscribers, but wholly accessible to the net-browsing public in the archives at epc, what does it take to make something "in the public record" these days in the heyday of intellectual property? On 4/23/02 12:04 PM, "Kasey Mohammad (Hotmail)" wrote: > My feelings about my own stuff are that once it's e-mail (at least e-mail > intended to be read by people some of whom I don't know by name), it's > public property. > > Kasey ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 23:51:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT George Thompson, sir, The ego has landed. Permit me to ask, respectfully, sir -- are you not, indeed, an ornithologist? one who freely admits to be indigenous himself to a place -- philosophy, precisely? where you invented new features that you yourself perceived by binoculars and adopted as your own? Do you not drive a land cruiser? "Well," you begin. "Well, I" -- so you continue. This is how you proceed, sir. Well, *I adopted* -- your words, indeed, your very words! It may be well, sir, indeed, that you adopted. Indeed! "Well, I," is how you began all this just now, and yet, in truth, *I adopted*, is your final meaning. "I adopted," is your commitment. You admit this, plainly. You shall not be hedged on this admission. You have adopted that, you say, which is indigenous, you announce, very specifically, *to philosophy*. Very good. I challenge anyone to say it differently, or do better. Sir, I am with you. And this is not, *not by far*, reckless, nor needlessly arbitrary, such decision-making on your part. I sense the distance in those words I have just used -- "by far...." "Far be it," you even say, your words now, you have taken them, and I find them now, a little farther down in your post. I challenge anyone to deny it. "It," the word you use, sir. "Far be it from me," you say very precisely there, sir -- that is the expression you use. You cannot, in good conscience, reverse course! You have adopted. You have invented. These are irreversible. You must adapt now. You must stick with them, *for better or worse* -- I must stress here that these are your very words. This is your expression, sir, "for better or worse," this very day. It is the adoption you speak of: "for better or worse." Brave words! Be it well then, that you have adopted a term. Be it so in History of Religions. Let the adoption proceed. I ask you whether Mrs Saltzman^Òs cabbage is not "stuffed with advice," in today^Òs For Better Or Worse -- for better or worse. Accept what the term may bring, "ahamkara" of ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 03:40:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Last Call for Materiality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I've been unable to keep up with every hydra-like limb of the ever-expanding "what is Language poetry?" thread, FASCINATING though it is, but nonetheless would like to toss my "two cents," as it's said, into the bottomless wishing pit. Some of you might recall me raising the question of what the word "materialist" means in certain literary contexts. I believe that answering this question would help unlock the "secret" of the history of the equal signs that we will never stop trying to solve (picture rat in cage pressing cocaine-dispensing lever). I wrote some notes down in response to Barrett Watten's post a few days ago but am currently unable to formulate coherent sentences so I just made them into a poem: LISTSERV don't remember much but (life is too long) multi-authorship material text Watten this is a fake mystery like defining literarity one answer is to do it sociological--not some poetic essence idealist reading of the listserv no progress back in 1990 structural-textual --the structure gonna make it all right confused with sociological-ideological collaboration leads to listserv so the Internet becomes the ideal text--hypermedia --economic and socio-ignored like surrealism--group ideology over--values (total failure of teaching) spiritual thing--our souls and what it means to be alive on a planet we have loved and hated All right, I did read Watten's Secret History essay a while back and don't remember almost anything from it except what seems to be happening again here (and maybe some people are already commenting on it) -- this conflation of language, poem, text, and discourse and the socio-structural means by which literary communities are formed, the poetry products distributed, the positions in "the field" secured and so on. The "what is language poetry?" question needs to separated into two questions -- Who are/were the language poets and what is their history, trajectory, position in the "field of cultural production" and then what, if any, are the foundational, requisite traits and qualities that differentiate a language poem from all the other stuff. Two distinct questions. One sociological and one literary. This brings us to the question of "materiality." The conflation I mentioned above appears in Patrick Durgin's 'Traditions' essay (www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin/Traditions.htm) and reading this was what first made me question this term. (Yes, the essay does criticize Dale Smith and that is not why I am bringing it up; if you got a problem with Dale call up someone else who also does and bond). Durgin goes back and forth between using "materiality"or rather "materialist poetics" and "materialist critique" to describe systems of publishing and circulation and (as if they were =) the actual words on the page. At one moment he talks about Chain's "materialist poetics" via their genre-identified issues: "Hybrid Genres, "Letters," etc. and then later uses the same term or its close cousin "materialist project" to describe the practice of 'inhabiting (public) space', i.e. publishing (Patrick's a publisher by the way, publishers needs poetics, too). L=A magazine is described as "sponsorship of lineage, ideologies (in the plural), and discrete works from a variety of traditions, at the level of language." I'm not sure what that means but it seems that "materialist" just means publishing shit (at the level of language).... "the deeply poignant aspiration to create space for material expression within an aesthetic-materialist project" I think that is the best definition of Language poetry history has so far produced. Any more dick poems? What about more nature (immaterial) poems? Tell me what I'm doing wrong!! thanks for letting me rant, dave mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:00:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...and those who can't write or teach become administrators. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Massoni" To: Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 7:20 PM Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE > haha the writers write the rest workshop those who can do others teach sm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:17:52 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: 'the books' from things not worth keeping Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi i want to make of those apologies in advance in respect of cross-posting. things not worth keeping are proud to announce: =8CThe Books=B9, the first in a planned series of 10 (subscription only) publications over the next two-three years. Chapter 1 : The Gathering Every chapter in the series will be produced in the same square format (20c= m x 20cm) and in full colour throughout - 24pp featuring 10 composed double-page spreads building towards a 240pp full-colour artwork. The serie= s presents a continuous narrative that weaves documentation and fiction into = a radical version, not a conclusion, of =8CThe Books=B9 project. We=B9re working with the conversations we like to imagine between artists=B9 books, graphic novels/poems and contemporary poetics. We=B9ve been working with this material since the autumn of 1998 - through a number of installation, performance and web based occurrences, some of whic= h you may have already heard about, witnessed or even participated in. More details are online at www.thingsnotworthkeeping.com. The work explores and makes explicit ideas about collaboration. We have just begun a targetted mail-out of the free launch issue intended t= o generate subscribers and sponsors for the rest of the series. We have a number of blank envelopes remaining. IF you would like to receive the invite package - including the free first issue - and IF you are a series candidate to become an individual or institutional subscriber / sponsor (the rates are not at all prohibitive : =A340 with a =A330 concessionary rate for all 10 books, separate rates for sponsors and institutions) then b/c us your address and we'll get them in the post this week. We're stressing this indication of serious intent as they are expensive to produce and we're not able to give away endless freebies. I might add that 'the books' will not be available for separate purchase.=20 looking forward cris cheek and kirsten lavers (on behalf of things not worth keeping) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:33:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, My last post went out to the list before it was finished. I must have hit the send button instead of the save button. So the abruptness of that post was unintended. If it has made you bristle, please forgive me. Really, I'm not interested in flyting with you. It is all just a little misunderstanding. George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 08:23:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE In-Reply-To: <002e01c1ed82$7ded0020$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Shuffle off to Buffalo, where there are two schools...town ("Just Buffalo" and associates) and gown (State University of New York's English Department program in "poetics"). Gown almost never talks to town. And town might like to converse with gown but no one's made a bridge. No invitations come from the big "u" to town. This, despite there being the "Just Buffalo Literary Center and despite Carl Dennis, who just won the Pulitzer. I suspect similar formations exist throughout the country. I wouldn't say that they are distinct schools as in types or sorts of poetry or pottery etc. There is variation. Although it's usually the critics who dub them "schools." At 07:28 PM 4/26/02 -0500, you wrote: >this may be somewhat oblique to 'inchoate' but I have reason to ask where >one would wander today to find an active school of poetry, assuming the NY >school, SF scene, LP, etc., are dying? > >tom bell > >&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: >Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html >Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at >http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm >Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ >Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 08:26:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gene Subject: Re: Last Call for Materiality In-Reply-To: <22.27bf9f52.29fbaff8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed materialist question depends on relation betwen thought and being. if thought creates being, idealism. if being crates thought, materialsm. Gene At 03:40 AM 4/27/02 -0400, you wrote: >Hello All, > >I've been unable to keep up with every hydra-like limb of the ever-expanding >"what is Language poetry?" thread, FASCINATING though it is, but nonetheless >would like to toss my "two cents," as it's said, into the bottomless wishing >pit. Some of you might recall me raising the question of what the word >"materialist" means in certain literary contexts. I believe that answering >this question would help unlock the "secret" of the history of the equal >signs that we will never stop trying to solve (picture rat in cage pressing >cocaine-dispensing lever). I wrote some notes down in response to Barrett >Watten's post a few days ago but am currently unable to formulate coherent >sentences so I just made them into a poem: > > > >LISTSERV > > >don't remember much but > (life is too long) >multi-authorship > material text >Watten this is a fake mystery >like defining literarity > one answer is to do it >sociological--not some >poetic essence > idealist reading of the listserv > no progress back in 1990 >structural-textual >--the structure gonna make it all right > confused with >sociological-ideological >collaboration leads to listserv >so the Internet becomes the >ideal text--hypermedia >--economic and socio-ignored >like surrealism--group ideology >over--values (total failure >of teaching) > spiritual thing--our souls >and what it means to be alive >on a planet we have loved > and hated > > > >All right, I did read Watten's Secret History essay a while back and don't >remember almost anything from it except what seems to be happening again here >(and maybe some people are already commenting on it) -- this conflation of >language, poem, text, and discourse and the socio-structural means by which >literary communities are formed, the poetry products distributed, the >positions in "the field" secured and so on. The "what is language poetry?" >question needs to separated into two questions -- Who are/were the language >poets and what is their history, trajectory, position in the "field of >cultural production" and then what, if any, are the foundational, requisite >traits and qualities that differentiate a language poem from all the other >stuff. Two distinct questions. One sociological and one literary. > >This brings us to the question of "materiality." The conflation I mentioned >above appears in Patrick Durgin's 'Traditions' essay >(www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin/Traditions.htm) and reading this was what >first made me question this term. (Yes, the essay does criticize Dale Smith >and that is not why I am bringing it up; if you got a problem with Dale call >up someone else who also does and bond). Durgin goes back and forth between >using "materiality"or rather "materialist poetics" and "materialist critique" >to describe systems of publishing and circulation and (as if they were =) the >actual words on the page. At one moment he talks about Chain's "materialist >poetics" via their genre-identified issues: "Hybrid Genres, "Letters," etc. >and then later uses the same term or its close cousin "materialist project" >to describe the practice of 'inhabiting (public) space', i.e. publishing >(Patrick's a publisher by the way, publishers needs poetics, too). L=A >magazine is described as "sponsorship of lineage, ideologies (in the plural), >and discrete works from a variety of traditions, at the level of language." >I'm not sure what that means but it seems that "materialist" just means >publishing shit (at the level of language).... > >"the deeply poignant aspiration to create space for material expression >within an aesthetic-materialist project" > >I think that is the best definition of Language poetry history has so far >produced. > >Any more dick poems? What about more nature (immaterial) poems? Tell me what >I'm doing wrong!! > >thanks for letting me rant, >dave > >mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:18:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kuszai Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020427081558.00a42560@pop.buf.adelphia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" and how do you know all this?? this seems informed by something other than evidence, so I'm just curious. >Shuffle off to Buffalo, where there are two schools...town ("Just Buffalo" >and associates) and gown (State University of New York's English Department >program in "poetics"). Gown almost never talks to town. And town might >like to converse with gown but no one's made a bridge. No invitations come >from the big "u" to town. This, despite there being the "Just Buffalo >Literary Center and despite Carl Dennis, who just won the Pulitzer. I >suspect similar formations exist throughout the country. I wouldn't say >that they are distinct schools as in types or sorts of poetry or pottery >etc. There is variation. Although it's usually the critics who dub them >"schools." > > >At 07:28 PM 4/26/02 -0500, you wrote: >>this may be somewhat oblique to 'inchoate' but I have reason to ask where >>one would wander today to find an active school of poetry, assuming the NY >>school, SF scene, LP, etc., are dying? >> >>tom bell >> >>&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: >>Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html >>Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at >>http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm >>Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ >>Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:31:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER: POG event TONIGHT: Heather Nagami & Tim Peterson, April 27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit REMINDER POG presents poets Heather Nagami & Tim Peterson Saturday, April 27, 7 pm Antigone Books 411 N 4th Ave, 792-3715 Admission: $5; Students $3 Tim Peterson is an MFA student in poetry at the University of Arizona. His poetry has appeared in Colorado Review, and his art criticism has appeared in Rain Taxi. He recently won honorable mention in the Robert Penn Warren Awards--a poetry contest judged this year by John Ashbery. Heather Nagami is an M.F.A. student at the University of Arizona. Her criticism has appeared in Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics and her poetry is forthcoming in Rattle. She is Editor-in-Chief of Sonora Review. POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following POG donors: Patrons Austin Publicover and Mark & Gail Seldess; Sponsors Sam Ace, Charles Alexander, Alison Deming, Maggie Golston, Mary Rising Higgins, Elizabeth Landry, Allison Moore, Sheila Murphy, Heather Nagami & Tim Peterson, Tenney Nathanson, Stacey Richter, Jesse Seldess, and Frances Sjoberg. for further information contact POG: 296-6416 pog@gopog.org or visit us on the web at www.gopog.org mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:56:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kuszai Subject: mersal and mcclane - new audio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Now featured at Factory School: Iman Mersal and Ken McClane http://www.factoryschool.org/content/annex/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 08:17:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: Re: What is Language Poetry? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Language Poetry Yea, it was pundit debunking, sage with newness, Meaty ruse, elaborate masquerade of unmeaning, Stage where words pose counterpoised to signification, Where rummy syllables string along kinks of syntax And gum of virgules jimmies together clauses To devise a monument of fistulous happenstance, Subverting address for free play^× Rare vestiges pitched headlong in stochastic Eddies, dreaming a livelong laterality, Polygons alongside tapirs in grammar-shorn dance^× Slithered mid-speech an intention a seam The color of politics, even the furthest minutia Run on dollars, come what cannot until (s)pace Breaks into half itself & Music the bramble where bare verbs rabble, Seeking the iota behind the bestial bars That proves no forged lattice girds the mind With predicates efficacious as prison searchlights^× Senses slip the faster usurps fate from syntax How kowtow to solipsism or preset a page? -Ravi Shankar __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:30:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good song -- great story in sunny binge where the sun never shines and the writers the lits are divided by day chittychittybangbang supercalifragilisticexpalidosis soundwise for sure does that mean the fragile superintendent of elastic expedient with halitosis? antidisestablishmenterryanism thrives in the hedge schools and in town and by those who wear the gown. My mother, a true child of th depression, and quite the sugar freak, joined FDU's town and gown at the late Rutherford campus. I blamed her for the campus closing! She chewed dilengently the cookie budget sas the dilentanttes lectured on and sometimes on agian. When I picked up up (not by hand but by car) she had crumbs all over herself, was chomping by the curb, and had stufft her pockets for me her purse for herself! Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:57:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Lytle Shaw From: Poetics List Administration Subject: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Line Reading at The Drawing Center curated by Lytle Shaw May 2002 Tuesday, May 14th at 7pm In conjunction with the exhibition Ellsworth Kelly: Tablet 1948-1973 Line Reading presents three poets: Robert Fitterman, Tan Lin, Juliana Spahr Robert Fitterman is author of among the cynics (Singing Horse, 1991), Ameresque, with artist Don Colley, (Buck Downs: 1994), and the first installment of the ongoing poem Metropolis 1-15 (Sun and Moon: 200). Metropolis 16-30 is just out from Coach House Press. His poetry has been published in journals including Arras, Big Allis, and West Coast Line. Fitterman currently teaches at New York University=B9s program in Florence. Tan Lin is author of Lotion Bullwhip Giraffe (Sun and Moon, 1996). Two book= s are forthcoming this Spring: Kruder & Dorfmeister, a novel in photographs (Faux Press) and Box (Atelos). Lin=B9s poems have appeared in journals including Lingo, Hambone, and New American Writing. His art has been exhibited recently at Marianne Boesky Gallery and the Yale University Art Museum. Lin teaches at New Jersey City University. Juliana Spahr=B9s books of poetry include Response (Sun and Moon, 1996) and Fuck You-Aloha-I Love You (Wesleyan). She is also author of the critical study, Everybody=B9s Autonomy: Connective Reading and Collective Identity (Alabama, 2000), and co-editor of Chain. Spahr teaches at the University o= f Hawi=B9i in Honolulu. Line Reading for Children at The Drawing Center: Sunday, May 19th, at 3pm R. Sikoryak R. Sikoryak=B9s cartoons have appeared in Raw, Drawn and Quarterly, The New Yorker, Wired, LA Weekly and many other publications. He is author, with Michael Smith, of the NEA-funded comic book, The Seduction of Mike (Fantagraphics). He hosts an occasional series of comic slide shows, "Carousel," which has been presented at Dixon Place and The Brooklyn Museum= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:57:03 -0400 Reply-To: WHITEBOX@EARTHLINK.NET Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: WHITE BOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: WHITE BOX Subject: PERFORMANCE IDEAS at WHITE BOX (and more...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Meredith Monk/The House Foundation for the Arts presents... PERFORMANCE IDEAS: A SERIES OF PUBLIC TALKS ON THE CONTEMPORARY ARTS Curated by Meredith Monk and Bonnie Marranca CROSS MEDIA: CONTEMPORARY ART AND ITS AUDIENCE TUESDAY, APRIL 30, 7:30 PM Joan Jonas Paul Kaiser Phil Kline Meredith Monk Yvonne Rainer Bonnie Marranca Final evening: ART AS SPIRITUAL PRACTICE TUESDAY, MAY 7, 7:30 PM Agnes Denes ï Richard Foreman ï Meredith Monk Shirin Neshat ï Eiko Otake ï Bonnie Marranca This project is supported in part with public funds from The New York City Department of Cultural Affairs Challenge Program, The New York State Council on the Arts and Ellynne Skove. For more information about the project, visit meredithmonk.org FREE & OPEN TO THE PUBLIC WHITE BOX__________________________ 525 WEST 26TH STREET NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10001 TEL: 212.714.2347 / WWW.WHITEBOXNY.ORG WHITE BOX updates: - Final week of the exhibition: Joel Sternfeld - Treading on Kings: Protesting the G8 in Genoa - May Day: The Blame Show opening reception, 6-8pm - Flaco was found... he was with the dogs in the garage next door... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:56:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Jeffrey Jullich From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: What Is? In-Reply-To: <776342.3219749132@ny-chicagost2a-242.buf.adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris: For the past two days, messages that I sent in reply to List postings are not appearing. Here is the body of the ~third~ message of mine that the 'bots are not letting through, if you could post it, please. Any idea why all these tech problems and rejected and vanished postings, now that the List is unmoderated? Thanks. --- Jeffrey ======================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:06:38 -0400 From: Barrett Watten Subject: What Is? > First, what kind of question is being asked? ...................................................... I bought and have been reading that issue of ~Qui Parle,~ mainly the remarkable Steve Evans essay on a metaphysics or Hegelian ontology of "new meaning,"--- but also the Ben Friedlander's haunted house prose, moving on to Lytle Shaw on Frank O'Hara. One "connection" I thought I sensed for the Friedlander was between it and, an odd comparison, the journal PomPom, or, for that matter, the Pledge of Allegiance poems that Michael Magee read from his new book at Double Happiness, or Craig Dworkin's new book based on a grammar manual. Magee's were "homophonic translations" from English to English of the words from the Pledge of Allegiance, a Raymond Roussel-like re-casting of similar-sounding words in the same order. (Ben Friedlander acknowledges Roussel.) The Dworkin book is described as taking a grammar manual and plotting it out by parts of speech, and then substituting new words into all those diagrammed sentences. Friedlander took a Jean Wahl essay and performed similar word-for-word substitutions, replacing the names of Existentialists with the names of Language Poets and key words with new concepts. "Facts" are abrogated, and it becomes very difficult to tell what's a valid statement and what's a synthetic illusion. The journal PomPom is predicated on each new issue's contributors taking the poems of the first or previous issues as their models and writing some type of emulation, imitation, or spin-off. Out of this small sample, a consistency should be becoming apparent: a literature where the antecedent text carries a grave, compelling and dictating guidance over the writing of the new text. A literature of palimpsest or copying, Xerox Poetry, where the preceding, instead of being "rebelled" against and overthrown, is followed slavishly. These examples seem to betray at least one consistency in what younger generation, "POST-Language" poets are doing. Coincidentally, Mister Kazim Ali's post about the new edition of Hejinian's ~My Life,~ and reading the new text in suspenseful anticipation of the differences between it and the previous version. This "post-Language"/Xerox current in new writing can be further emblematized into how, unlike the usual, a new generation is reacting to a previous--- or ~not~ reacting. In a sense, the "Anxiety of Influence" is peculiarly missing, or sublated, or, at any rate, ~odd~ and different from normal Oedipal rebellion. There's something of an extreme holding onto what has passed before, a blurring into it, a willing inability to differentiate child from parent: clone poetics. Maybe this happens with Adult Children of Alcoholics, where the child was burdening with being the sensible caretaker of dysfunctional latterday Hippies. These are like bad simulacra. Like those species of hungry flora that overcome their insect prey by adapting into a perfect resemblance to it. Where this leaves the question under discussion, "What is Language Poetry?", much as Barrett Watten says, is another empty center or excluded middle, which, once that blue dwarf has collapsed, leaves very different questions: What is ~not~ Language Poetry? Underline this one: How is Language Poetry ~not~ Language Poetry? How are we, how can we be, and ~do~ we want to be ~not~ Language Poetry, now that that ~idee fixe~ dominates the entire poetic psyche like an obsessive compulsion? The bad conscience of L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry's having misappropriated the '80s one moral equal sign: SILENCE = DEATH. Translated into less logical colloquialism, where the question really is happening, I think, is in a struggle that asks: how can all these contradictory, dissimilar poetries remain misguidingly lumped together under the one unilluminating rubric? (The Californian New Sentence-ism of a Rae Armantrout should no longer even be on ~the same map~ as East Coast Andrews paratacticism, the two are so [dialectically] opposed.) How can we be such poor readers as to call "pluribus" "unum"? (The widened gap between female and male Language Poets, where, to oversimplify, Scalapino, Armantrout and Howe, to name three, have always retained ~strong~ autobiographical sources throughout their work that completely belie Glazier's Doctrine of The Non-Innovative "I": by surface contrast, the men have been eradicating every possible trace of matrilineal/familial succession.) Enough time has passed, for anybody who's been keeping up with The Good Fight, so that what was once difficult, shocking, and hermetic now reads transparently, self-evident, an alternative normativity. It's becoming harder to hide, and the personal self now gapes out of almost every Language text, the way a housepet like a cat will play at hiding by poking its head under a chair, leaving its whole conspicuous backside sticking out from behind and tail swinging in the air. The propulsion behind the question, I think, is: cannot we yet get past this distorting generalization, put it aside completely, and begin speaking in ~sub-sets~ of Language Poetry --- the Zaum-ists (P. Inman, Melnick's ~Pcoet,~ a little bit of every Howe book), the aforementioned extremist paratactics, the unanchored but coherent clause poetry [I'm not a very good taxonomist at this point], the didactic Essay on Poetry sermonizers (Perelman, some Bernstein, ~A Border Comedy~), --- so that those sub-species can in turn be bridged more helpfully back into the entire weave of the avant-garde or poetry in general, with which, once unsegregated, they bear strong commonalities? That is, the question then becomes: What is Language Poetry once we ~stop~ calling it Language Poetry? Where does it go and what does the poetry turn into? Without that mythic term, like The Areopagites (a non-existent hypothetical "school" of early Elizabethans, Spenser and Marvell), the reading experience, the literary history, and even The Wars become quite different. Language Poetry, like the Marxist state, is being phased out of its ontology by a literary Fall of The Wall. The question has a null point because the term was always predicated on negations: ~not~ self-oriented, ~not~ confessionalist, ~not~ discursive. Language Poetry was the Un-Cola of poetries. You only know what it is if you realize it something else than what you're calling it. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:10:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Brent Cunningham From: Poetics List Administration Organization: Small Press Distribution Subject: Message for List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Christopher, I wonder if there is any way to post this message to the list. We're having an end-of-the-month sale for poetics list members and any of their friends they want to forward the news to. I am a bit late getting this out, but I think the subscribers will be happy to hear about it. --Brent Cunningham Sales & Web Manager Small Press Distribution MESSAGE: In the wake of SPD^Òs successful open house last Saturday, SPD is throwing a ^ÓVirtual^Ô Open House for orders through the rest of the month. Just mention the Open House and we will take off 10% from whatever you purchase (on top of any discount you may already receive as a member). You must order in the month of April to get this discount! Ways to order: >Go to http://www.spdbooks.org and make an online order, typing ^Óopen house^Ô in the comments field of your order. >Call SPD from 9-5 PST at 1-800-869-7553. **ALSO: The SPD Spring Catalog is now out. For a free copy, email brent@spdbooks.org** Newest Titles at SPD: Slovoj Zizek REPEATING LENIN Arkzin Press, 2002, $10.00 Zizek arguing for a ^Óreturn to Lenin,^Ô a full scale attack on the ^Ópseudo-Deluzian love-hate fascinating/fascinated poetic depiction of capital as a rhizomatic monster/vampire which deterritorializes and swallows all^Å^Ô More Zizek from SPD: WELCOME TO THE DESERT OF THE REAL The Wooster Press, 2002, $8.00 Hejinian, Lyn MY LIFE (reprint) Green Integer, 2002, $10.95 Ed. Laura Hinton & Cynthia Hogue WE WHO LOVE TO BE ASTONISHED: Experimental Women^Òs Writing and Performance Poetics Alabama, $24.95 Loss Pequeno Glazier DIGITAL POETICS: The Making of E-Poetries Alabama, $24.95 Brandon Downing THE SHIRT WEAPON Germ Monographs, 2002, $10.00 Lytle Shaw THE LOBE Roof, 2002, $11.95 Kathy Lou Schultz SOME VAGUE WIFE Atelos, 2002, $12.95 David Antin & Charles Bernstein A CONVERSATION WITH DAVID ANTIN Granary, 2002, $12.95 New Chapbooks: Carl Thayler THE TAILGUNNER^ÒS SONG Skanky Possum, 2002, $10.00 Kenward Elmslie & Mary Kite, w/ drawings by Joe Brainard SPILLED BEANS: A CONVERSATION Skanky Possum, 2002, $7.00 Andrew Joron THE EMERGENCY OF POETRY Velocities Chapbook Series, 2002, $7.00 New Magazines: Eirik Steinhoff, Ed. Chicago Review 47/4 & 48/1: Stan Brakhage: Correspondences Winter/Spring 2002, $8.00 Vincent Standley, Ed. 3rd Bed Spring/Summer 2002, $8.00 A. E. D. Burns, R. Morrison, J. Noble, E. Robinson, B. Strang, Eds. ^Ó26^Ô: A Journal of Poetry and Poetics 2002, $10.00 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:13:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: rejected messages problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are aware that a few subscribers have been able to post to the list over the past week to two weeks (the problem seems to be variable), and apologize for the inconvenience. I have examined all of the subscriptions in question and can't figure out what the problem might be; everything appears to be quite normal from this side. The usual routine of un- and resubbing - the listerv version of hitting it with a hammer - hasn't worked in any of these cases. We have referred the problem to the people who maintain the listserv server at UB's Computing and Information Technology office, and await word from them. Thanks for your patience in the interim. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:58:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Line Reading at The Drawing Center MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -- Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2002 9:25 -0400 From: Lytle Shaw Line Reading at The Drawing Center curated by Lytle Shaw May 2002 Tuesday, May 14th at 7pm In conjunction with the exhibition Ellsworth Kelly: Tablet 1948-1973 Line Reading presents three poets: Robert Fitterman, Tan Lin, Juliana Spahr Robert Fitterman is author of among the cynics (Singing Horse, 1991), Ameresque, with artist Don Colley, (Buck Downs: 1994), and the first installment of the ongoing poem Metropolis 1-15 (Sun and Moon: 200). Metropolis 16-30 is just out from Coach House Press. His poetry has been published in journals including Arras, Big Allis, and West Coast Line. Fitterman currently teaches at New York University=B9s program in = Florence. Tan Lin is author of Lotion Bullwhip Giraffe (Sun and Moon, 1996). Two = books are forthcoming this Spring: Kruder & Dorfmeister, a novel in photographs (Faux Press) and Box (Atelos). Lin=B9s poems have appeared in journals including Lingo, Hambone, and New American Writing. His art has been exhibited recently at Marianne Boesky Gallery and the Yale University Art Museum. Lin teaches at New Jersey City University. Juliana Spahr=B9s books of poetry include Response (Sun and Moon, 1996) = and Fuck You-Aloha-I Love You (Wesleyan). She is also author of the critical study, Everybody=B9s Autonomy: Connective Reading and Collective Identity (Alabama, 2000), and co-editor of Chain. Spahr teaches at the University = of Hawi=B9i in Honolulu. Line Reading for Children at The Drawing Center: Sunday, May 19th, at 3pm R. Sikoryak R. Sikoryak=B9s cartoons have appeared in Raw, Drawn and Quarterly, The = New Yorker, Wired, LA Weekly and many other publications. He is author, with Michael Smith, of the NEA-funded comic book, The Seduction of Mike (Fantagraphics). He hosts an occasional series of comic slide shows, "Carousel," which has been presented at Dixon Place and The Brooklyn = Museum. Recommended Ages: 8-18. The Drawing Center is located at 35 Wooster Street, between Grand and = Broome (in Soho; ACE Canal Street). All Line Readings are $5; free to The Drawing Center members. Line Readings for Children are free; refreshments are served. Line Reading is made possible with funds from the New York State council = for the Arts, a state agency. For more information contact The Drawing Center at 212 226 5075 or Line Reading Curator Lytle Shaw at 212 226 5075 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:58:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Henry Gould From: Poetics List Administration Subject: book publication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please post to the Poetics List - thank you very much. All the sequels to the book-length poem Stubborn Grew (Spuyten Duyvil, 2000) have now been published in one volume, titled The Rose. This book consolidates previous books (Grassblade Light, July, and one section of Island Road). So the complete long poem (known as Stubborn Grew/The Rose, or, Forth of July) is now available in these two volumes. See the XLibris website listed below for more information. Henry Gould ******************************************************** HG afloat: www.nedgemagazine.com * www.xlibris.com/HenryGould.html www.spuytenduyvil.net * www.jacket.zip.com.au * www.unf.edu/mudlark "Read it back to me, quietly, quietly." - O. Mandelstam ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:16:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: ** new Poetry Center & email address ** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -- Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:37:49 -0800 From: Steve Dickison Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: WHITE BOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: WHITE BOX Subject: MAY DAY ! MAY DAY ! Dissent = Freedom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WHITE BOX presents... THE BLAME SHOW OPENING RECEPTION: MAY ONE, 6-8PM Curated by The Blame Committee: Eleanor Heartney & Larry Litt The Blame Committee believes Americaís artistic patriotic opposition has been deliberately and deviously excluded from almost all current Homeland political conversation and debate. Itís time to be included. Larry Litt's Blame Show video Dan Perkinsís (aka Tom Tomorrow) "This Modern World" & "Drawing Board" National Coalition Against Censorship's Svetlana Mintchevaís "Censorship Timeline" ACLU's Sarah Gloverís "Your Right Not To Remain Silent" Tim Rollins & KOSís "Animal Farm" Artist Network of Refuse & Resistís "Our Grief Is Not A Cry For War" Independent Media Centerís alternative newspaper "The Indypendent" Eleanor Heartneyís "Public Interventions" Daniel Kurtzmanís www.politicalhumor.about.com Political Artists Open Media Lab This exhibition runs through May 11th. Don't miss the Public Forum: May 8th - 7:30pm ART NOW: POLITE, POLITIC OR POLITICAL? Sponsored in part by American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) & National Coalition Against Censorship (NCAC) WHITE BOX is a 501[c][3] not-for-profit arts organization. Gallery hours are Tuesday - Saturday / 11 - 6pm. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WHITE BOX 525 WEST 26TH STREET (between 10th & 11th Aves) NEW YORK CITY 10001 - tel 212.714.2347 / www.whiteboxny.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:29:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ". sandra" Subject: Re: "Language Poetry is"...? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "K.Silem Mohammad" wrote: Language poetry is the highest form of > language. language poetry is better defined when somebody writes what language poetry is not than what it might be. language poetry pushes the boundaries of 'highest form of language' being more inclusive than it might appear. language poetry hates when somebody writes 'this piece of language is higher than this piece of language' This poetry is accessible to an > American audience. > language poetry is NOT accessible to an american audience. what is american audience? > Language poetry is a particularly American phenomenon that borrows from > European traditions and theories. language poetry is not an american phenomenon end of sentence kindof type. steve mccaffery, karen mac cormack, nicolle brossard, maggie o'sullivan are good examples. collaborative projects among poets from other 'traditions'/ languages attests that. > Language poetry is a form of expression that allows our deepest soul to be > portrayed to others. Language poetry is a way to say something in a way > that shows love and elevates that. > > language poetry struggles against statements like 'deepest soul' and verbs like 'to elevate' > > > best .sandra guerreiro ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:00:26 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Billy Mills Subject: New from hardPressed Poetry Comments: To: Tony Frazer , Tony Baker , "Tom Raworth >" , scottthurston@btinternet.com, Romana Huk , Robert Sheppard , Robert Hampson , Ric Caddel , Randolph Healy , Peterjon Skelt , Peter Riley , Maurice Scully , Maurice Scully , Keith Tuma , Jim Mays , Harry Gilonis , Harriet Tarlo , Geoff Squires , Cris Cheek , Craig Watson , british & irish poets , Bob Archambeau , Allen Fisher , Alex Davis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Apologies to anyone who gets this twice. =20 Billy Mills Logical Fallacies Poem in 10 short sections. A holograph edition of 10 copies an = acid-free paper, of which 8 are for sale.=20 Price: euro 8.00. To see some extracts, visit http://gofree.indigo.ie/~hpp/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:48:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Bion-ically linking to a few MORE thoughts MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT there's this as well: http://www.human-nature.com/free-associations/glover/index.html and Meares is interesting as well in re creativity but my interest is in how people respond to a topic on the list as a 'group process' - idle speculations, i know. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Bion-ically linking to a few MORE thoughts > There's a list, netdynam, that I was on for a while, that studies and > works through his ideas vis-a-vis the list itself. You might want to do a > google.com search for it and sub - Alan > > Internet text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html > Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > CDROM of collected work 1994-2002 available: write sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:13:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: boasting poems? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT George Thompson, I'm joshing around. No ill intended. Apologies. Bristles, sir? I have bristles. We shall wet them, sometime share sack together. Look to your Falstaff, sir. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:18:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: DerekRogerson.com Subject: Re: Last Call for Materiality In-Reply-To: <22.27bf9f52.29fbaff8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IS LIKE PEOPLE WHO SAY ICE HOCKEY Using the term 'language poetry' is like people who say 'ice hockey' -- there is a recognition of medium as essential to process David Hess wrote: > what [does] the word "materialist" mean in > certain literary contexts? I believe that > answering this question would help unlock > the "secret" of the history of the equal > signs [=] that we will never stop trying to solve http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/10/109.html http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/10/107.html 'Materialist,' I would hope, affords *parallel attention* to the world that seems vs. the world that is __________________________________ Queen: Why seems it so particular with thee? Hamlet: Seems, madam? Nay, it is. I know not 'seems...' ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:24:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Non-Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <000001c1ee20$60cc4b10$7259bbcc@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Below you will find the manifesto for my new poetry movement: Non-Language Poetry. The Non-Language Poets will no longer consent to use words-except when they have to. ss A Test of Poetry Cut out a strip of paper & draw a line down the middle of the strip. Join the two ends of the strip to make a circle. Now the line you drew will run along the circumference, either outside or inside the circle, one or the other. Cut another strip of paper the same size. Give the strip a half-twist, 180 degrees, before you join the ends together. Now you have a Mobius strip. Start anywhere along this strip & begin to draw a line. You'll end up back where you started, without ever having to lift your pencil off the paper. Your mind will loop into itself & the world will loop into your mind as you move that pencil. There is no outside, no inside, only the flow of this single unending curve. Perhaps this is poetry. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:47:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi peppermint Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE In-Reply-To: <002e01c1ed82$7ded0020$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dying? I'm not so sure about this particular word choice, as many living figure-heeds of said movements are well, living. "Death" as a trope for thinking about literary movements suggests a beginning and ending that they do not, seems to me from here, have. Instead, they grow, change, take lines of flight, yes? Actually, this difference is key to the said movements. How about transforming? Then, the question is, into whats and wheres are these various schools of poetry transforming. ? all the beast, heidi peppermint Thomas Bell wrote: this may be somewhat oblique to 'inchoate' but I have reason to ask where one would wander today to find an active school of poetry, assuming the NY school, SF scene, LP, etc., are dying? tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:17:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The question was not what's dying but is there life anywhere? chitychity bang BANG tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Massoni" To: Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:30 AM Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE > Good song -- great story in sunny binge where the sun never shines and the > writers the lits are divided by day chittychittybangbang > supercalifragilisticexpalidosis soundwise for sure does that mean the fragile > superintendent of elastic expedient with halitosis? > antidisestablishmenterryanism thrives in the hedge schools and in town and by > those who wear the gown. My mother, a true child of th depression, and quite > the sugar freak, joined FDU's town and gown at the late Rutherford campus. I > blamed her for the campus closing! She chewed dilengently the cookie budget > sas the dilentanttes lectured on and sometimes on agian. When I picked up up > (not by hand but by car) she had crumbs all over herself, was chomping by the > curb, and had stufft her pockets for me her purse for herself! Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:17:16 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Last Call for Materiality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like _being crates thought_ all the grateful dead backed up and archived in e-crates L ----- Original Message ----- From: "gene" To: Sent: 27 April 2002 13:26 Subject: Re: Last Call for Materiality | materialist question depends on relation betwen thought and being. if | thought creates being, idealism. if being crates thought, materialsm. | | | Gene | | | | At 03:40 AM 4/27/02 -0400, you wrote: | >Hello All, | > | >I've been unable to keep up with every hydra-like limb of the ever-expanding | >"what is Language poetry?" thread, FASCINATING though it is, but nonetheless | >would like to toss my "two cents," as it's said, into the bottomless wishing | >pit. Some of you might recall me raising the question of what the word | >"materialist" means in certain literary contexts. I believe that answering | >this question would help unlock the "secret" of the history of the equal | >signs that we will never stop trying to solve (picture rat in cage pressing | >cocaine-dispensing lever). I wrote some notes down in response to Barrett | >Watten's post a few days ago but am currently unable to formulate coherent | >sentences so I just made them into a poem: | > | > | > | >LISTSERV | > | > | >don't remember much but | > (life is too long) | >multi-authorship | > material text | >Watten this is a fake mystery | >like defining literarity | > one answer is to do it | >sociological--not some | >poetic essence | > idealist reading of the listserv | > no progress back in 1990 | >structural-textual | >--the structure gonna make it all right | > confused with | >sociological-ideological | >collaboration leads to listserv | >so the Internet becomes the | >ideal text--hypermedia | >--economic and socio-ignored | >like surrealism--group ideology | >over--values (total failure | >of teaching) | > spiritual thing--our souls | >and what it means to be alive | >on a planet we have loved | > and hated | > | > | > | >All right, I did read Watten's Secret History essay a while back and don't | >remember almost anything from it except what seems to be happening again here | >(and maybe some people are already commenting on it) -- this conflation of | >language, poem, text, and discourse and the socio-structural means by which | >literary communities are formed, the poetry products distributed, the | >positions in "the field" secured and so on. The "what is language poetry?" | >question needs to separated into two questions -- Who are/were the language | >poets and what is their history, trajectory, position in the "field of | >cultural production" and then what, if any, are the foundational, requisite | >traits and qualities that differentiate a language poem from all the other | >stuff. Two distinct questions. One sociological and one literary. | > | >This brings us to the question of "materiality." The conflation I mentioned | >above appears in Patrick Durgin's 'Traditions' essay | >(www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin/Traditions.htm) and reading this was what | >first made me question this term. (Yes, the essay does criticize Dale Smith | >and that is not why I am bringing it up; if you got a problem with Dale call | >up someone else who also does and bond). Durgin goes back and forth between | >using "materiality"or rather "materialist poetics" and "materialist critique" | >to describe systems of publishing and circulation and (as if they were =) the | >actual words on the page. At one moment he talks about Chain's "materialist | >poetics" via their genre-identified issues: "Hybrid Genres, "Letters," etc. | >and then later uses the same term or its close cousin "materialist project" | >to describe the practice of 'inhabiting (public) space', i.e. publishing | >(Patrick's a publisher by the way, publishers needs poetics, too). L=A | >magazine is described as "sponsorship of lineage, ideologies (in the plural), | >and discrete works from a variety of traditions, at the level of language." | >I'm not sure what that means but it seems that "materialist" just means | >publishing shit (at the level of language).... | > | >"the deeply poignant aspiration to create space for material expression | >within an aesthetic-materialist project" | > | >I think that is the best definition of Language poetry history has so far | >produced. | > | >Any more dick poems? What about more nature (immaterial) poems? Tell me what | >I'm doing wrong!! | > | >thanks for letting me rant, | >dave | > | >mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm | ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:30:21 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: Last Call for Materiality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so much for field hockey i suppose.... not that i claim any allegiance to "field poetics"..... Derek R wrote: > IS LIKE PEOPLE WHO SAY ICE HOCKEY > > Using the term 'language poetry' is like people who say 'ice hockey' -- > there is a recognition of medium as essential to process > > David Hess wrote: > > > what [does] the word "materialist" mean in > > certain literary contexts? I believe that > > answering this question would help unlock > > the "secret" of the history of the equal > > signs [=] that we will never stop trying to solve > > http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/10/109.html > http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/10/107.html > > 'Materialist,' I would hope, affords *parallel attention* to the world > that seems vs. the world that is > > __________________________________ > > Queen: > Why seems it so particular with thee? > > Hamlet: > Seems, madam? Nay, it is. I know not 'seems...' ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 18:34:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Last Call for Materiality In-Reply-To: <3CCB348C.B2CBBB9E@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > so much for field hockey i suppose.... > > not that i claim any allegiance to "field poetics"..... > girls and fucked 'em at school! All I know is that There were rumours he was into field hockey players There were rumours *So I applied basically* He was gone the next day *I went off with the team* It's like - he was go - they just like It was so hush hush They were so - quiet about it And then the next thing you know ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 21:06:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan E Minton Subject: Re: new online poetry journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The correct address for Word/For Word is http://www.wordforword.info Apologies for the incorrect syntax. > tried to access this site but it doesnt seem to be going thru....mIEKAL >>Jonathan Minton wrote: >> Word/For Word >> >> The first issue features poetry by Sheila Murphy, Richard Deming, David >> Pavelich, Kerri Sonnenberg, Martin Corless-Smith, William Allegrezza, and >> others. >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 22:36:24 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: Non-Language Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This also sounds like a candidate for my Fake Langugage Poetry movement. The Fakelangpo web site is in the works... (However I am having technical problems. Has anyone here ever used phpnuke or myphpnuke to build a site? I'm having installation trouble...) (By the way, it is not in the slightest bit nasty or offensive (I hope) to te real language poetry; it is simply a different view which holds that good language poetry is poetry which is fun to read, and that we are allowed to use critical words like "good" and "fun" instead of "polysemy" (which was one I never fogured out), etc. Millie -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Steven Shoemaker Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:25 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Non-Language Poetry Below you will find the manifesto for my new poetry movement: Non-Language Poetry. The Non-Language Poets will no longer consent to use words-except when they have to. ss A Test of Poetry Cut out a strip of paper & draw a line down the middle of the strip. Join the two ends of the strip to make a circle. Now the line you drew will run along the circumference, either outside or inside the circle, one or the other. Cut another strip of paper the same size. Give the strip a half-twist, 180 degrees, before you join the ends together. Now you have a Mobius strip. Start anywhere along this strip & begin to draw a line. You'll end up back where you started, without ever having to lift your pencil off the paper. Your mind will loop into itself & the world will loop into your mind as you move that pencil. There is no outside, no inside, only the flow of this single unending curve. Perhaps this is poetry. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:31:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Editorial Staff Subject: NYC Book Party for 15 New Books from 4 Presses Comments: cc: ubuweb , sclay@interport.net, younggeoffrey@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Roof Books, Coach House Press, Granary Books + The Figures invite you to a party: Thursday, May 9th 2002 at Metro Pictures 519 w. 24th St., NYC 5:30-7:30 PM for the following new books: Kim Rosenfield, _Good Morning Midnight_ Lytle Shaw, _The Lobe_ Lewis Warsh & Julie Harrison, _Debtor's Prison_ Mac Wellman, _Miniature_ Drew Milne, _Mars Disarmed_ Susan Bee & Johanna Drucker, _A Girl's Life_ Mark Terrill, _Bread & Fish_ Robert Creeley & Archie Rand, _Drawn & Quartered_ Christian Bok, _Eunoia_ Robert Fitterman, _Metropolis 16-29_ Kenneth Goldsmith, _Head Citations_ + _Soliloquy_ Edwin Torres, _The All-Union Day of the Shock Worker_ David Antin & Charles Bernstein, _A Conversation with David Antin_ Refreshments served __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:44:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: please note MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi - please note that we are leaving on Monday night or Tuesday for New York again... Here is our contact information - Alan Sondheim and Azure Carter 432 Dean Street Brooklyn, New York, 11217 (This is near the Atlantic Avenue / Pacific Street subway station) Telephone 718-857-3671 Email Alan: sondheim@panix.com Email Azure: AzurCarter@aol.com - We just had a farewell party for us here in Miami, given by some of the FIU faculty. We're pretty miserable leaving - I've had some brilliant students (who came), and we were just getting to know the Everglades from a deep/ecological viewpoint - something that's informed my writing recently - We'll be in New York for most of the summer, except for the last week of May / first week of June - Please let me know if you hear of any employment opportunities - love to everyone - Alan - ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:57:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE [The Zombie Avant-Garde] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:47:33 -0700, Heidi Peppermint wrote: > Dying? < Funny you should use that word: "death." The death of the avant-garde / the death of poetry. Some people don't like to be called "dead," of course, but--- Following a footnote in Barrett Watten's ~Secret History~ essay, I've been awaiting the recall of my library's copy of Paul Mann's ~Theory-Death of the Avant-Garde~ (yum!) and, in the meantime, reading an on-line version of his ~Masocriticism,~ which gives a summary of what the preceding theory-death meant. I'm finding the idea to be quite envigorating! (yet at the same time bleak) and to help cast almost everything of American avant-garde poetry into relief. [I provide interesting sample quotes from the book at the bottom of this post.] Here's my interpretation of what ~Masocriticism~ says about theory-death: It takes as its starting point the old adage --- old but said from so many different corners that it starts to take on an insistent truth by consensus of its reiteration --- that the avant-garde is dead. And from there, it goes on to explain ~how~ the avant-garde is dead (and still continuing at the same time). As best I can make out, his idea is that, once avant-gardes are recuperated back into the over-all exchange system of the "capitalism" that they come out of, that is, by becoming "alternative tradition" canonical, in museums, or sold, ---the avant-garde and capitalism being symbiotic (capitalism having needed the avant-garde to fuel it with new, exploitable inventiveness),--- the avant-gardes are stripped of all their original ~ideological~ context and significance. Homogenized, kind of, so that basically all that remains of them are their structural or design differences, but with the politics and theory gone out of it. There's the theory-death. (An applied example of this might be how surrealism and Dada and Futurism and Russian zaum, to name only a few, all stand leveled on the same plane now: the surrealism of Breton's "l'amour fou" where an almost crimes of passion but private berserk love was the revolutionary catalyst, the surrealism of the Communist Party surrealists or Breton with Trotsky, the fascism behind Italian Futurism, the Russian avant-gardes as agents of an implemented revolutionary government, etc., are all elided into exercises in style, with the pits removed. Without their ideological-theory components, all those avant-gardes and their artworks have lost an indispensable dimension of their significance, . . . like preserving a national anthem or flags without knowing which country they belonged to.) He sees the avant-garde as having existed from 1871 to May 1968, between the two French revolutions. (Again, dated very close to the other "the avant-garde is dead" proponents, who ground its disappearance, for example, in the economic absoprtion of the bourgeois class that gave rise to it by opposition, or even post-modernity dating its inception a decade or so later [with the demolition of that Modernist classic building, etc]) . The paradox of a dead avant-garde still continuing and even proliferating: the very repetition ~is~ the death principle that's driving it post mortem. There's a Freudian equation between the death principle and repetition compulsion, where the sameness or stasis that repetition compulsion pursues is a zero state of identity, and that zero is death. He compares it to de Sade's repetitive, endlessly generating sentences. Kind of like a zombie avant-garde, where the very fact that it's still going is proof that it's ~really, really~ dead. If it weren't dead, it would've laid down or stopped by now. Of course, this notion of "dead" might be expressed with another term. (But which?) This gratifying theory-death seems quite plausible if not self-evident to me. Death has never prevented literatures from continuing. Neo-Latin poetry, for instance, extended well beyond the Middle Ages, even into the early twentieth century among some Italian scholastics (the neo-Latin poet whom Saussure corresponded with, believing he'd found hypogrammes in his writing) and, for centuries, English poetry and neo-Latin poetry were produced in parallel, the latter usually coming first in a poet's career, so that half of the canon's poetry is sealed off to us (the Latin poetry of Milton, of Marvell, of Marlowe). See the morbidity of New Formalism's dry bones. Perhaps an even better example (since neo-Latin poetry was dead by virtue of its vocabulary being a dead language's whereas now the dead avant-garde still uses a living English) might be philosophy, which didn't listen to its Hegelian death knell, didn't even quite let Heideggerian twilight bury it, and which, regardless, as least by Wittgensteinian linguistic skepticism, was always operating, in metaphysics and ontology, without any real circulatory system, just sort of a haunted house of grammatically uprooted ghost words like "being" or "essence." This theory-death seems a useful key to me in that it gives a unique standard of measurement for otherwise difficult-to-explain Deterioration-like profusions: the aforementioned Xerox Poetry, for example, is a sort of Shroud of Turin of the exterminated original. It allows it to be asked, of the possible means of sustenance, how much literary ~necrophilia~ is the driving force. As in The Prsistent Achaicism, something that deserves attention. To seize upon just the convenient example of the lastest posted new e-journal as a test case, http://www.wordforword.info : among fourteen writers, we find ---in no way disparaging the very good, good poetry there: "medieval streets in context" (history as the preserved dead) or the dead spot of inheritted lyrical sentimentality, "the melancholy voices of these green woods" [William Allegrezza]; haikus hundred of years after their vitality; the dead/archaic Elizabethan diction of "And the solution of contynuyte called ecchymosis in / greke commeth most often" [Braden]; Martin Corless-Smith, who has made dead book English his trademark style, and who, in the particular wordforword poem, reenacts the manifestation of dead zones by making overstruck cancelations (deletions) the whole trope of the piece; the robotic lifelessness of Jukka-Pekka Kervinen's computer-generated collages; the dead neo-classicism of "from Philomela to Procne" [McCollough] or "it is unlawful says Hypnos" [Mulrooney]; pure zero drive repetition compulsion in David Pavelich's rearranged lines (see Braden); an elegy of Shakespeare's in the title "Full Fathom Five" and perhaps the most thorough Final Days of all the poetry in Jon Thompson's extremely crepuscular poetry: "The Sense of Ending," "ghostly remnants of old fables," etc. (Again: this autopsy analysis is in no way a condemnation of the poetry's commendable strengths: rigidity, petrifaction, fossilization, vampirism ^Å) The avant-garde may have been dead so long now that it's finally beginning to show, in a myriad of ways. This flat-lining and absent pulse is good news, I think, because for the first time it allows other ~seeming~ growths to be seen for what they are: disintegration as dispersal . . . Cheerfully, Quotes from ~Masocriticism~: : ....................................................... Now this diagnosis suggests, first of all, that the avant-garde's death was not an event that occurred at the end of a long and healthy life: from the very outset everything it produced was its death; everything it produced delivered it into the arms of an economy in which death itself can be reproduced as a commodity. .... Capital feeds off of the avant-garde; its perpetual death helps keep the monster of capital alive. That is why the death of the avant-garde must not be confused with any termination, any closure, which has not yet occurred and will never occur as long as the culture of capital persists. The death of the avant-garde is not its end but its repetition, indeed its compulsive repetition. ... But at the same time, as the death of the avant-garde makes manifest, in this culture one can also die by speaking. One can also play into the hands of a generalized violence against secrecy. ... It is here that one begins to imagine another monstrous order in which the equation of silence and death is not rejected but embraced, in which the deepest necessity is to seek this silence and death. One imagines such a silence so that one's own writing will become untenable. Under the sign of silence and death, writing turns against itself with enormous fury; it becomes a kind of masocriticism, if you will, subjecting itself to the laws of the discursive economy it loathes in order to inflict upon itself an unprecedented suffering that will make writing, as long as it continues, impossible. .. [de Sade] He would have no interest in the avant-garde attempt to dismantle bourgeois art only to reassemble its elements once more within the discursive economy, within Art and Culture, in the moribund form of the aesthetic commodity. It is because culture is, like Frankenstein, so adept at such reassemblies, at reproducing phantasms of life from the scattered limbs of the dead, that a second death must occur, an afterlife that is the first encounter with death, a death carried out, in Sade's work, by the continuous production of sentences, sentences that are always punctuated as death sentences. The death of the author? It has long been a critical cliché. But the lesson of Sade is that the only author whose death matters is the author of the text one writes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:01:25 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Language Poetry What to do With It MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Various comments have been out forth on this issue including mine the = other night: I had consumed some ales so not sure what I was talking = about. But for me the L=3DA=3DN=3DG movement was a novelty in 1992 when = "introduced" to it via a course on American Poetry and Poetics at = Auckland University run by Wystan Curnow, Roger Horrocks, Michelle = Leggott, Murray Edmond, and at that time Alan Loney gave a lecture (he = was the visiting poet, or poet in residence, and is a poet and = publisher). Loney talked then of the importance to him of Olson: his = "open field" literally had - I think he was saying - a liberating effect = on his own writing and praxis. For me the whole course at Auck Uni was = good and much of it new and as someone who had "returned" to poetry and = literature (after years as a "family man" and a "worker") the whole = thing "came out of the blue" but since then I've attempted to keep up = with innovative work - whether it is card-carrying language poetry or = more "traditional" or something that may have developed in parrallel or = in similar ways or owes something to that movement - or is not related = at all and is simply interesting. I think that it was and is a greatly = significant movement. The questions now arising are how it is = developing, what people are influenced by it: which are say the most = interesting mags publishing writing close to this "current", some = speculation on the future and so on. Even in "in the American Tree" or a = more general book "Postmodern American Poetry" by Hoover there is an = enormous variation of writing going on. The movement though is a closer = "knit" group than say the NY School and so on. Generally in New Zealand = if people talk about poetry outside New Zealand they refer to Ted = Hughes, Seamus Heaney and people of his ilk. Some may be aware of = Geoffrey Hill, and those better "versed" may know of David Jones, or = Prynne or even Raworth. But as to American poets the names sought are = the "beats" such as Ginsberg. There may be some knowledge of Olson: = people will know of Plath...rarely is John Ashbery mentioned: but = certainly Bukowski and Kerouac etc are extremely popular. Very few = people even in the 'literary world" know anything of the Language Poets. = (Mind you in NZ as anywhere there are worlds within worlds and various = intersections: we are not talking clear cut circular diagrams, so to = speak) (Of course I'm talking not of people whose "life is literature", = now most of those will have some knowledege of this movement when there = they "approve" of it is a different question.) (These are = generalisations of course.) Now when I give readings I have sometimes some "more languagy poems" = which have been written for fun: in fact they fit in easily with kind of = rapid "inspirational" writing I do. Usually the "purely" language poems = I read are received with bafflement: I suspect that some people conclude = I'm a mad Univeristy professor or just a madman from the bush. Well, = I'm probably a slightly eccentric but mostly ordinary person from the = suburbs! But not always are people "baffled", there are people who = frequenty thank me for what i ahve read, so sometimes "ecstatic clamour = and ovation"is the reaction. Its interesting though that my often more = "trad" poems simply dont work much... The reason for this I think is - and I think this points to one thing = that Langpo is "trying to do" - is that one slips into 'auto-poetic' = that is, an audience who are used to and enjoy my "crazy prose poems " = etc , hear the "old" sounds, the slide toward the familiar, the slip = into the slush of what may start to sound (altough this audience is not = thinking consciously: "ah! official verse culture!" I doubt) too much = like poetry of some too consciously trying to be a poet: bad Dylan = Thomas ...Thomas was a great poet but: what the audience wants is = something that is not rhyhming, (I mean that is not trutely sing-songy) = non histrionic, and in some way intellectually challenging. This is not = to annul emotive force and so on (or certain fundamental poetic devices = and experiences.): the point here is that both trite or "tired" habits = of reading writing often result when the "old" way of writing is used = (that said, I;m aware of the problematics here; that language poetry of = a kind also starts (or can start) to sound "samey"... so "new" = strategies of writing are constantly called for (if not required = instantly)...But I dont mean poetry that has inwoven some complex schema = or "message' a la eg Celan. Now he's a good example because I just = re-read Pierre Joris's translation of the Celan poem which deals with = his visit to Heidegger.Now that is quite brilliant (Joris's translation = and the poem and the insights). Paradoxically, this lead me to a = philosopical dictionary and I read about Heidegger. Now I think that I'm = (more) in agreement (insofar as I can see what Heidegger is talking = abut re being and being in the world and so on (this time): this after I = had more or less dismissed him (when first I "encountered" his writing) = with the "feel" of Heidegger's writing than I was before - when i was = more skeptical or dubious, partly for the Nazi connection but also when = I first read some of his things I was philosophically more supportive of = technology - I'm still dubious of his strange attitude to technology, = but that gets back to the "nature" debate, and I'm already digressing = too much! - and dubious of his very obscure and abstract language): but = to return to Celan: his poetry would be impossible to do justice to in = a public reading (maybe "impossible" is too strong here - the reality is = more complex re public or other readings (aloud) of poetry and = performence - the whole area is problematic), but the reason is that = (even for a German audience; an appreciative and attentive one, may = subtle nuances and deep etymylogical meanings and so on would be lost: = this doesnt mean that Celan reading (or reading his poetry aloud or to = an audience) would be a waste of time...in fact what I'm saying applies = in varying degrees to virtually any poetry..as each audience and each = member of each audience brings more or less knowledge of the poem's = subject as well as "reading expernce" and or life experience and = sensibility to a poem being presented or read. In fact, the point is = that, both a kind of poetry that was kind of "of the cuff" and or ludic = and had no subtle or deep meaning or twists and turns would probably = signify (if its poetic quality and intensity of its "linguistic-emotive" = pressure were in there in the writing) as significantly and beautifully = - to use a fraught term - as the poem with "complex designs or ulterior = motives(!)" .... Now with (most) of the poems I write I approach (or have attemped to = approach, if I've attempted anything) a kind of "higher music" where an = expository appreciation of the poem is less useful than a "poetic mind = responding" to a magical-pseudo-logical 'construction' or 'work' whose = sum-total may have some "meaning" but which is by and large sui generis: = which is not to say non-meaningful or non referential, but certainly the = way it "means" or tries to be or mean convey is poetic. This is not to = say "good" or great" or even "bad" - just that that is the kind of = writing it is. Heidegger, and I'm "cheating" here, as the works I've = read by him dont include "Being and Time" and I dont have a great = knowledge of philosophy, is said to a have come to think thus (accoding = to the Oxford Companion to Philosophy: "The appropriate response to = being is thinking. Thinking is our obedient answer to the call of = being:the early Greeks did it, but we have forgotten it. Thinking = contrasts with assertion, logic, science ('science does not think'), = metaphysics, philosophy itself, and especially technology, which is = merely an instrument for aclculation and domination of = entities...Language...[becomes, or speaks as] the ' abode of being' ... = Poetry is not a secondary phenomenom: it has a special relation to being = and truth. Poetry is 'founding of truth':it discloses the (or 'a') world = and creates a language for its adequate expression..." Now I'm well = aware of the danger of tis kind, of Heidegger's way, of philosophy, = which in fact is more like a kind of poetry (in fact Bernstein's essay = "Writing and Method" calls into question or problematises where poetry = begins and philosophy ends and vice versa: but I think that Heidegger = was dogged ofter the problem of being in time and it is an important, or = if not an important, at least (and) fascinating question (Eliot pursues = it via St Augustine in "Burnt Norton")): like Hegel he is an = fundamentally "Idealist" philosopher....but that aside, through Celan = (and especially with such an engrossing exposition as that by Joris), = I've connected to Heidegger and the possiblity of thinking about the = world (quite soberly) and thinking about a world in a "poetic" way, and = one of the key things here is Heidegger's concept that poetry and art = (not science) are moved more to centre stage as ways to interpret the = world: however, as Joris points out, it appears that the subtlety of = Celan's poem was wasted on Heidegger! Which brings us back to politics = and the political -social significations of literrature and language: = and thus also their emotive and psychological significance. These are = not trivial. The language that Celan had to use (or felt he had to use) = was German, now his parents were killed by Germans: but Celan did not = dismiss Heidegger's philosophy. The opacity of Celan's subtly nuanced = language meant that ts meaning evaded Heidegger: which nearly cuts the = ground from under Heidegger the champion of "poetic thinking" - hoist by = his own petard - but Celan was also at "fault" for his complexity: or = was he...the reality is that we are "trapped in language" ... and = Celan's agony points to questions that lead to the reason or the rasiosn = d'etre of or for language poetry: Heidegger's philosophy struggles with = time and being and process: which process is seen in the work of an = important influence on the Langauge poets, Gertrude Stein... I'm not arguin for any particular "type" or "style" of poetry or for = or against "opacity" - a better term is Bernstiens absorption-anti = absorption as in "A Posetics"... Its a paradox that I could probably "cut up" (well any one could) = parts of Heidegger's writings (possibly leaving in some of he German = words in even whilst my German is very very limited) and eevn graft it = onto some Celan and other "stuff" and yet: this mish mash, this = seeming-meaning, this meaningful meaninglessness, I could convey to an = audience:it would probably still hold its fascination, the fascination = of concepts coming into being, the music. And the music would still be there, read out aloud or not, latent. The = word, the latent word: potent, building - perpetually possible. = Richard taylor. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:32:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Fence Books Spring 2002 Comments: To: ira@angel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Our two spring poetry books are here, and available on the Fence Books website (http://www.fencebooks.com), where we are offering an all-time special deal: buy any two books together and save 30%! That's two $12 books for $18 plus shipping.* THE RED BIRD, by Joyelle McSweeney, winner of the 2001 Fence Modern Poets Series, selected and with a foreword by Allen Grossman "The Red Bird has more in common with a fast red car, except that it does, indeed, fly. Within its agile slips and twists, McSweeney has managed a rare insight, casting our own historical moment as the postmodern medieval, full of knights running errands, where Machu Piccu, Radio Sucre, and lawn chairs all take on Biblical proportions. Except that it's really Darwin we're talking about, as he careens around the globe. She deflates this and other old battles by giving us new terms: 'O beautiful he produceth / language from everyplace / on his body. . .' This is a stunning first book. It glows in the dark." - Cole Swensen "[McSweeney's] poems are neither reductive nor fantastic. But they are profoundly mysterious in the way any truthful account of the world must be. Joyelle McSweeney is a poet with a vocation- a calling to the world. What is given her (the vocation) is to make others see what is given her to see." - Allen Grossman CAN YOU RELAX IN MY HOUSE, by Michael Earl Craig "I like being in the world of Michael Craig's poems. Anything can happen, and probably will, and it will affect me in small or large ways that I couldn't have imagined. The precision of their imagery keeps me reeling with delight."- James Tate Montgomery He wore a beautiful hat in massive mahogany which he unscrewed and set on the bureau. He loosened his tie and walked over to the window; from there he could see down into the courtyard where his dog was tied, in the rain, to a tall hedge. He kept his back to the room: a silver probang lay on a black cushion; a jar of tongue depressors; various calipers; an old-looking telephone with what looked to be white icing on the mouthpiece. Montgomery tapped the ash off his cigar. He cleared his throat and spoke: "No. I said I saw a pile of hurdles behind the meat plant." The nurse held her clipboard defensively. She nodded. She wrote: "Is quite handsome. Is in need of a bath." * Fence Books are also available from from Small Press Distribution (http://www.spdbooks.org) and UPNE (http://www.upne.com). *** Fence Books and Fence Magazine are delighted to announce the winner of the 2002 Alberta Prize: The Real Moon of Poetry and Other Poems, by Tina Celona, to be published in the fall of 2002 by Fence Books (http://www.fencebooks.com) Tina Celona's darkly lucid, lightly comic poems are unusually explicit in their attentiveness to the primacy of poetry as a force akin to that of the tides or their correlative lunar cycle. Describing in clear, unabstracted terms such elements of the quotidian as war, freedom, dream, "Satisfaction," and imagination, Celona invokes poems and their poet with the same degree of focused intensity as she does more obvious, more conventionally useful objects such as Singer sewing machines, shrimp, straw, driveways, corpses. The result is not so much an elevation as a leveling, a tableau of meaning in which the poet and her poems achieve a plastic, spatial, significant reality on the luxuriously detailed plateau of the natural world: "The cliffs of the/ seabed the/ Poem twisting like a/ Tornado over the/ Plains of the interior/ Decoration." Tina Brown Celona was born in 1974 to an American Foreign Service Officer and his Vietnamese wife. She grew up in Tokyo, Paris, Kuala Lumpur, and Washington, DC, and attended Brown University. In 1996 she moved to Salt Lake City, UT, then attended the Writer's Workshop at the University of Iowa. Celona has published a chapbook, Songs & Scores (Spectacular Books). She lives in East Hampton, New York with her husband, the poet Matt Celona. *** In celebration of these new books and of our Fall 2001 authors Chelsey Minnis (ZIRCONIA) and Catherine Wagner (MISS AMERICA) we will be going on a Spring 2002 mini-tour of New England and New York. Please come see us at one of these (http://www.fencemag.com/events.html): Fence & Fence Books Spring 2002 Mini-Tour * Friday, May 24th, 7 pm Jeff Dolven Joyelle McSweeney Brookline Booksmith Writers & Readers Room 279 Harvard St. Brookline, MA Take the Green "C" Line to Coolidge Corner * Saturday, May 25th, 4-6 pm Martin Corless-Smith Michael Earl Craig Chelsey Minnis Catherine Wagner jubilat/Harvard Advocate/Boston Review Reading Series 113 Sever Hall, Harvard Square Cambridge, MA * Monday, May 27th, 7:30 pm Michael Earl Craig Peter Gizzi Joyelle McSweeney Rebecca Wolff Atticus Books 8 Main Street Amherst, MA * Wednesday, May 29th, 7 pm Caroline Crumpacker Chelsey Minnis Catherine Wagner Rebecca Wolff Fine Arts Work Center, 24 Pearl Street Provincetown, MA * Friday, May 31st, 9:30 pm Michael Earl Craig Joyelle McSweeney Chelsey Minnis Catherine Wagner The Poetry Project at St. Marks' Church 2nd Avenue at 9th Street For more information: events@fencemag.com *** As always please let us know if you wish to be removed from this list by replying "unsubscribe"--in the subject heading makes it even easier. ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:44:51 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: A Need for Light MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit has stricken us all damned us to hell we poor miserly things with no hope but to hope for what we look to miracles to give us when they come we'll be too busy with our daily mess to welcome them unless of course there comes a miracle ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooyyyyyeeeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:51:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Things Are MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so hot and warm in this town where we will soon be neighbors there will be a love greater than anything our hearts can imagine TVs will explode from the pressure, the song of the quiet lives we will lead among all the alarms sirens and fatal mornings ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:05:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leslie Scalapino Subject: DEFOE by Leslie Scalapino has been reprinted by Green Integer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 DEFOE by Leslie Scalapino has been reprinted by Green Integer, = EL-E-PHANT 55, $15.95, 228 pages. ISBN # 1-931243-44-1. It is an = anti-war work. The back cover says: "DEFOE is an epic where images of = battle become meditations, an epic wherein events flap in silence as the = narrative moves toward a place where the reader and text become one. The = images of this fiction don't resemble events, but are new occurrences in = time and space. In Part I, WAKING LIFE, the heroine, in love with James = Dean, discovers herself in a desert pocked with fires in which the = "henna man" - a drug dealer - is being carried in a white cocoon. And = throughout Scalapino's work the reader is taken into a world where the = written word creates "an event retrieved from so far back that it is = separated from memory." THE REVIEW OF CONTEMPORARY FICTION wrote of this book: = "As a literary work, DEFOE most closely resembles the sort of automatic = writing pioneered by Breton and Soupault; as a political and = philosophical critique of contemporary discourse, DEFOE reveals a deep = affinity with the works of Heidegger and Derrida. But ultimately - = perhaps most controversially - it is a call to writers to liberate = themselves from the limits of narrative and embrace a new kind of = writing." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:12:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kasey Mohammad (Hotmail)" Subject: children's rhyme/game query In-Reply-To: <20020426194931.73144.qmail@web20604.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A friend of mine has written me saying that he and his wife had >started thinking about all those things that get transmitted >down from kid to kid, like "ollie ollie oxen free," or choosing rhymes >like "one potato two potato" or "eenie meanie minie moe." We started to >think there might be an interesting project in this (that's code for >book). we thought it would be a good idea to preserve some of this stuff >and also to find the roots of it. (Just on a preliminary search, I found >that hide and seek was probably played in ancient Greece.) Does anybody >remember any good games or rhymes or anything from when they were kids? >It could be rope jumping rhymes or even games that kids played in your >area or activities like Bloody Mary, which my older brother taught me to >scare the pants off me. Anything. So I thought that the list might be a good resource for getting some responses, considering the rhyme-aspect of the question. Any ideas (front or back-channel)? Kasey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:26:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: summer prose workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'm going to be leading a summer prose workshop out of my San Francisco (South of Market) apartment--Monday evenings, beginning early to mid June. There seems to be more interest than I have room for, so I'm thinking of adding a second section--just for the summer--on Saturday afternoons. The class would last 12 weeks, no assignments, liberal definition of what constitutes prose. It's a good place to bring in edgy work. Please pass this message along to anyone you know who might be interested. Thanks. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:35:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: children's rhyme/game query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The professional folklorists beat your friends to the mark by about 80 years, and he will be competing with an enormous literature. He should check out the books by the Opies (husband and wife) for a start--within the listings at Amazon of all of their books for children are the real wonders. Mark At 11:12 AM 4/28/2002 -0700, you wrote: >A friend of mine has written me saying that he and his wife had > > >started thinking about all those things that get transmitted > >down from kid to kid, like "ollie ollie oxen free," or choosing rhymes > >like "one potato two potato" or "eenie meanie minie moe." We started to > >think there might be an interesting project in this (that's code for > >book). we thought it would be a good idea to preserve some of this stuff > >and also to find the roots of it. (Just on a preliminary search, I found > >that hide and seek was probably played in ancient Greece.) Does anybody > >remember any good games or rhymes or anything from when they were kids? > >It could be rope jumping rhymes or even games that kids played in your > >area or activities like Bloody Mary, which my older brother taught me to > >scare the pants off me. Anything. > >So I thought that the list might be a good resource for getting some >responses, considering the rhyme-aspect of the question. Any ideas (front >or back-channel)? > >Kasey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:51:43 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE [The Zombie Avant-Garde] In-Reply-To: <20020428035749.85644.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit isn't the avant-garde always dead? and isn't that the point. the avant-garde is always dead and being replaced by something which will later be called avant-garde... What is the new poetry now like? I want to read that book Eunoia that seems quite popular only I can never remember the author's name :-) (easy enough to find though) but more seriously can't find even at bookstores like labyrinth (I think Jeffrey Jullich lives in my neigghborhood so knows where I'm talking about) or St. Marks. I'm gonna try Gotham but it's not that great on new poetry books and you have to be awake 9-5 to go there....and it's raining) see how concrete I can be even though I read Language Poetry sometimes? hey what is the most appropriate poem to read in the rain? I have two candidtaes, both French but quiote different. One is Appolinaire's Caligramme "il pleut" and the Verlaine poem which may be nameless but is the third pooemin Romances sans Paroles: Il pleure dans mon coeur Comme il pleut sur la ville Quelle est cette langueur Qui penetre mon coeur? O bruit doux de la pluie Par terre et sur les toits! Pour un coeur qui s'ennui O le chant de la pluie! Il pleure sans raison Dans ce coeur qui s'ecoeur Quoi! nulle trahison? Ce deuil est sans raison. C'est bien la pire peine De ne savoir pourquoi, Sans amour et sans haine, Mon coeur a tant de peine. I think that's one of the best descriptions of (clinical) depression I've ever read and the beginning is terrific poetry,; it kind of lags after that, I mean it's still good but not brteathtaking like the first two lines. Millie -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Jullich Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:58 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE [The Zombie Avant-Garde] On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:47:33 -0700, Heidi Peppermint wrote: > Dying? < Funny you should use that word: "death." The death of the avant-garde / the death of poetry. Some people don't like to be called "dead," of course, but--- Following a footnote in Barrett Watten's ~Secret History~ essay, I've been awaiting the recall of my library's copy of Paul Mann's ~Theory-Death of the Avant-Garde~ (yum!) and, in the meantime, reading an on-line version of his ~Masocriticism,~ which gives a summary of what the preceding theory-death meant. I'm finding the idea to be quite envigorating! (yet at the same time bleak) and to help cast almost everything of American avant-garde poetry into relief. [I provide interesting sample quotes from the book at the bottom of this post.] Here's my interpretation of what ~Masocriticism~ says about theory-death: It takes as its starting point the old adage --- old but said from so many different corners that it starts to take on an insistent truth by consensus of its reiteration --- that the avant-garde is dead. And from there, it goes on to explain ~how~ the avant-garde is dead (and still continuing at the same time). As best I can make out, his idea is that, once avant-gardes are recuperated back into the over-all exchange system of the "capitalism" that they come out of, that is, by becoming "alternative tradition" canonical, in museums, or sold, ---the avant-garde and capitalism being symbiotic (capitalism having needed the avant-garde to fuel it with new, exploitable inventiveness),--- the avant-gardes are stripped of all their original ~ideological~ context and significance. Homogenized, kind of, so that basically all that remains of them are their structural or design differences, but with the politics and theory gone out of it. There's the theory-death. (An applied example of this might be how surrealism and Dada and Futurism and Russian zaum, to name only a few, all stand leveled on the same plane now: the surrealism of Breton's "l'amour fou" where an almost crimes of passion but private berserk love was the revolutionary catalyst, the surrealism of the Communist Party surrealists or Breton with Trotsky, the fascism behind Italian Futurism, the Russian avant-gardes as agents of an implemented revolutionary government, etc., are all elided into exercises in style, with the pits removed. Without their ideological-theory components, all those avant-gardes and their artworks have lost an indispensable dimension of their significance, . . . like preserving a national anthem or flags without knowing which country they belonged to.) He sees the avant-garde as having existed from 1871 to May 1968, between the two French revolutions. (Again, dated very close to the other "the avant-garde is dead" proponents, who ground its disappearance, for example, in the economic absoprtion of the bourgeois class that gave rise to it by opposition, or even post-modernity dating its inception a decade or so later [with the demolition of that Modernist classic building, etc]) . The paradox of a dead avant-garde still continuing and even proliferating: the very repetition ~is~ the death principle that's driving it post mortem. There's a Freudian equation between the death principle and repetition compulsion, where the sameness or stasis that repetition compulsion pursues is a zero state of identity, and that zero is death. He compares it to de Sade's repetitive, endlessly generating sentences. Kind of like a zombie avant-garde, where the very fact that it's still going is proof that it's ~really, really~ dead. If it weren't dead, it would've laid down or stopped by now. Of course, this notion of "dead" might be expressed with another term. (But which?) This gratifying theory-death seems quite plausible if not self-evident to me. Death has never prevented literatures from continuing. Neo-Latin poetry, for instance, extended well beyond the Middle Ages, even into the early twentieth century among some Italian scholastics (the neo-Latin poet whom Saussure corresponded with, believing he'd found hypogrammes in his writing) and, for centuries, English poetry and neo-Latin poetry were produced in parallel, the latter usually coming first in a poet's career, so that half of the canon's poetry is sealed off to us (the Latin poetry of Milton, of Marvell, of Marlowe). See the morbidity of New Formalism's dry bones. Perhaps an even better example (since neo-Latin poetry was dead by virtue of its vocabulary being a dead language's whereas now the dead avant-garde still uses a living English) might be philosophy, which didn't listen to its Hegelian death knell, didn't even quite let Heideggerian twilight bury it, and which, regardless, as least by Wittgensteinian linguistic skepticism, was always operating, in metaphysics and ontology, without any real circulatory system, just sort of a haunted house of grammatically uprooted ghost words like "being" or "essence." This theory-death seems a useful key to me in that it gives a unique standard of measurement for otherwise difficult-to-explain Deterioration-like profusions: the aforementioned Xerox Poetry, for example, is a sort of Shroud of Turin of the exterminated original. It allows it to be asked, of the possible means of sustenance, how much literary ~necrophilia~ is the driving force. As in The Prsistent Achaicism, something that deserves attention. To seize upon just the convenient example of the lastest posted new e-journal as a test case, http://www.wordforword.info : among fourteen writers, we find ---in no way disparaging the very good, good poetry there: "medieval streets in context" (history as the preserved dead) or the dead spot of inheritted lyrical sentimentality, "the melancholy voices of these green woods" [William Allegrezza]; haikus hundred of years after their vitality; the dead/archaic Elizabethan diction of "And the solution of contynuyte called ecchymosis in / greke commeth most often" [Braden]; Martin Corless-Smith, who has made dead book English his trademark style, and who, in the particular wordforword poem, reenacts the manifestation of dead zones by making overstruck cancelations (deletions) the whole trope of the piece; the robotic lifelessness of Jukka-Pekka Kervinen's computer-generated collages; the dead neo-classicism of "from Philomela to Procne" [McCollough] or "it is unlawful says Hypnos" [Mulrooney]; pure zero drive repetition compulsion in David Pavelich's rearranged lines (see Braden); an elegy of Shakespeare's in the title "Full Fathom Five" and perhaps the most thorough Final Days of all the poetry in Jon Thompson's extremely crepuscular poetry: "The Sense of Ending," "ghostly remnants of old fables," etc. (Again: this autopsy analysis is in no way a condemnation of the poetry's commendable strengths: rigidity, petrifaction, fossilization, vampirism ) The avant-garde may have been dead so long now that it's finally beginning to show, in a myriad of ways. This flat-lining and absent pulse is good news, I think, because for the first time it allows other ~seeming~ growths to be seen for what they are: disintegration as dispersal . . . Cheerfully, Quotes from ~Masocriticism~: : ....................................................... Now this diagnosis suggests, first of all, that the avant-garde's death was not an event that occurred at the end of a long and healthy life: from the very outset everything it produced was its death; everything it produced delivered it into the arms of an economy in which death itself can be reproduced as a commodity. .... Capital feeds off of the avant-garde; its perpetual death helps keep the monster of capital alive. That is why the death of the avant-garde must not be confused with any termination, any closure, which has not yet occurred and will never occur as long as the culture of capital persists. The death of the avant-garde is not its end but its repetition, indeed its compulsive repetition. ... But at the same time, as the death of the avant-garde makes manifest, in this culture one can also die by speaking. One can also play into the hands of a generalized violence against secrecy. ... It is here that one begins to imagine another monstrous order in which the equation of silence and death is not rejected but embraced, in which the deepest necessity is to seek this silence and death. One imagines such a silence so that one's own writing will become untenable. Under the sign of silence and death, writing turns against itself with enormous fury; it becomes a kind of masocriticism, if you will, subjecting itself to the laws of the discursive economy it loathes in order to inflict upon itself an unprecedented suffering that will make writing, as long as it continues, impossible. .. [de Sade] He would have no interest in the avant-garde attempt to dismantle bourgeois art only to reassemble its elements once more within the discursive economy, within Art and Culture, in the moribund form of the aesthetic commodity. It is because culture is, like Frankenstein, so adept at such reassemblies, at reproducing phantasms of life from the scattered limbs of the dead, that a second death must occur, an afterlife that is the first encounter with death, a death carried out, in Sade's work, by the continuous production of sentences, sentences that are always punctuated as death sentences. The death of the author? It has long been a critical clichi. But the lesson of Sade is that the only author whose death matters is the author of the text one writes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:18:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE {The Zombie Avant-Garde} / Jullich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As difficulties persist with Jeffrey Jullich's subscription, he asked me = to forward this message to the list. It has been helpfully brought to my attention, with regard to a post that I forwarded yesterday under similar circumstances, that whereas the header - the From/To/Date/Etc. part of the message - was correctly cited in the list archive, the post appeared to digest subscribers author unknown. This was Jeffrey Jullich's post "What Is?" - dated Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:56:41. Apologies for the inconvenience. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- Date: Sat, Apr 27, 2002 21:09 -0700 From: Jeffrey Jullich On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:47:33 -0700, Heidi Peppermint wrote: > Dying? < Funny you should use that word: "death." The death of the avant-garde / the death of poetry. Some people don't like to be called "dead," of course, but--- Following a footnote in Barrett Watten's ~Secret History~ essay, I've been awaiting the recall of my library's copy of Paul Mann's ~Theory-Death of the Avant-Garde~ (yum!) and, in the meantime, reading an on-line version of his ~Masocriticism,~ which gives a summary of what the preceding theory-death meant. I'm finding the idea to be quite envigorating! (yet at the same time bleak) and to help cast almost everything of American avant-garde poetry into relief. [I provide interesting sample quotes from the book at the bottom of this post.] Here's my interpretation of what ~Masocriticism~ says about theory-death: It takes as its starting point the old adage --- old but said from so many different corners that it starts to take on an insistent truth by consensus of its reiteration --- that the avant-garde is dead. And from there, it goes on to explain ~how~ the avant-garde is dead (and still continuing at the same time). As best I can make out, his idea is that, once avant-gardes are recuperated back into the over-all exchange system of the "capitalism" that they come out of, that is, by becoming "alternative tradition" canonical, in museums, or sold, ---the avant-garde and capitalism being symbiotic (capitalism having needed the avant-garde to fuel it with new, exploitable inventiveness),--- the avant-gardes are stripped of all their original ~ideological~ context and significance. Homogenized, kind of, so that basically all that remains of them are their structural or design differences, but with the politics and theory gone out of it. There's the theory-death. (An applied example of this might be how surrealism and Dada and Futurism and Russian zaum, to name only a few, all stand leveled on the same plane now: the surrealism of Breton's "l'amour fou" where an almost crimes of passion but private berserk love was the revolutionary catalyst, the surrealism of the Communist Party surrealists or Breton with Trotsky, the fascism behind Italian Futurism, the Russian avant-gardes as agents of an implemented revolutionary government, etc., are all elided into exercises in style, with the pits removed. Without their ideological-theory components, all those avant-gardes and their artworks have lost an indispensable dimension of their significance, . . like preserving a national anthem or flags without knowing which country they belonged to.) He sees the avant-garde as having existed from 1871 to May 1968, between the two French revolutions. (Again, dated very close to the other "the avant-garde is dead" proponents, who ground its disappearance, for example, in the economic absoprtion of the bourgeois class that gave rise to it by opposition, or even post-modernity dating its inception a decade or so later [with the demolition of that Modernist classic building, etc]) . The paradox of a dead avant-garde still continuing and even proliferating: the very repetition ~is~ the death principle that's driving it post mortem. There's a Freudian equation between the death principle and repetition compulsion, where the sameness or stasis that repetition compulsion pursues is a zero state of identity, and that zero is death. He compares it to de Sade's repetitive, endlessly generating sentences. Kind of like a zombie avant-garde, where the very fact that it's still going is proof that it's ~really, really~ dead. If it weren't dead, it would've laid down or stopped by now. Of course, this notion of "dead" might be expressed with another term. (But which?) This gratifying theory-death seems quite plausible if not self-evident to me. Death has never prevented literatures from continuing. Neo-Latin poetry, for instance, extended well beyond the Middle Ages, even into the early twentieth century among some Italian scholastics (the neo-Latin poet whom Saussure corresponded with, believing he'd found hypogrammes in his writing) and, for centuries, English poetry and neo-Latin poetry were produced in parallel, the latter usually coming first in a poet's career, so that half of the canon's poetry is sealed off to us (the Latin poetry of Milton, of Marvell, of Marlowe). See the morbidity of New Formalism's dry bones. Perhaps an even better example (since neo-Latin poetry was dead by virtue of its vocabulary being a dead language's whereas now the dead avant-garde still uses a living English) might be philosophy, which didn't listen to its Hegelian death knell, didn't even quite let Heideggerian twilight bury it, and which, regardless, as least by Wittgensteinian linguistic skepticism, was always operating, in metaphysics and ontology, without any real circulatory system, just sort of a haunted house of grammatically uprooted ghost words like "being" or "essence." This theory-death seems a useful key to me in that it gives a unique standard of measurement for otherwise difficult-to-explain Deterioration-like profusions: the aforementioned Xerox Poetry, for example, is a sort of Shroud of Turin of the exterminated original. It allows it to be asked, of the possible means of sustenance, how much literary ~necrophilia~ is the driving force. As in The Prsistent Achaicism, something that deserves attention. To seize upon just the convenient example of the lastest posted new e-journal as a test case, http://www.wordforword.info : among fourteen writers, we find ---in no way disparaging the very good, good poetry there: "medieval streets in context" (history as the preserved dead) or the dead spot of inheritted lyrical sentimentality, "the melancholy voices of these green woods" [William Allegrezza]; haikus hundred of years after their vitality; the dead/archaic Elizabethan diction of "And the solution of contynuyte called ecchymosis in / greke commeth most often" [Braden]; Martin Corless-Smith, who has made dead book English his trademark style, and who, in the particular wordforword poem, reenacts the manifestation of dead zones by making overstruck cancelations (deletions) the whole trope of the piece; the robotic lifelessness of Jukka-Pekka Kervinen's computer-generated collages; the dead neo-classicism of "from Philomela to Procne" [McCollough] or "it is unlawful says Hypnos" [Mulrooney]; pure zero drive repetition compulsion in David Pavelich's rearranged lines (see Braden); an elegy of Shakespeare's in the title "Full Fathom Five" and perhaps the most thorough Final Days of all the poetry in Jon Thompson's extremely crepuscular poetry: "The Sense of Ending," "ghostly remnants of old fables," etc. (Again: this autopsy analysis is in no way a condemnation of the poetry's commendable strengths: rigidity, petrifaction, fossilization, vampirism . . .) The avant-garde may have been dead so long now that it's finally beginning to show, in a myriad of ways. This flat-lining and absent pulse is good news, I think, because for the first time it allows other ~seeming~ growths to be seen for what they are: disintegration as dispersal . . . Cheerfully, Jeffrey Jullich ------------------------------------------------------- Quotes from ~Masocriticism~: Now this diagnosis suggests, first of all, that the avant-garde's death was not an event that occurred at the end of a long and healthy life: from the very outset everything it produced was its death; everything it produced delivered it into the arms of an economy in which death itself can be reproduced as a commodity. ... Capital feeds off of the avant-garde; its perpetual death helps keep the monster of capital alive. That is why the death of the avant-garde must not be confused with any termination, any closure, which has not yet occurred and will never occur as long as the culture of capital persists. The death of the avant-garde is not its end but its repetition, indeed its compulsive repetition. .. But at the same time, as the death of the avant-garde makes manifest, in this culture one can also die by speaking. One can also play into the hands of generalized violence against secrecy. .. It is here that one begins to imagine another monstrous order in which the equation of silence and death is not rejected but embraced, in which the deepest necessity is to seek this silence and death. One imagines such a silence so that one's own writing will become untenable. Under the sign of silence and death, writing turns against itself with enormous fury; it becomes a kind of masocriticism, if you will, subjecting itself to the laws of the discursive economy it loathes in order to inflict upon itself an unprecedented suffering that will make writing, as long as it continues, impossible. . [de Sade] He would have no interest in the avant-garde attempt to dismantle bourgeois art only to reassemble its elements once more within the discursive economy, within Art and Culture, in the moribund form of the aesthetic commodity. It is because culture is, like Frankenstein, so adept at such reassemblies, at reproducing phantasms of life from the scattered limbs of the dead, that a second death must occur, an afterlife that is the first encounter with death, a death carried out, in Sade's work, by the continuous production of sentences, sentences that are always punctuated as death sentences. The death of the author? It has long been a critical clich=C8. But the lesson of Sade is that the only author whose death matters is the author of the text one writes. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:32:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE {The Zombie Avant-Garde} / Jullich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Consulting the archive once again, I notice that whatever problems there may have been with Jeff Jullich's account seem - in the magic words of network administrators everywhere - to have "resolved themselves," and that he was able to post some version of this message yesterday evening. My bad, as my students used to say. That is, I think they've stopped saying it. Certain as it is I'm over thirty, if I've learnt the phrase it can bear little on what my students are saying now. Well, you know what I mean. I guess. semi-officially, Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:58:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: The Mood Embosser by Louis Cabri MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Just out from Coach House Books: The Mood Embosser 144 pp. 1-55245-095-3 Available at http://www.chbooks.com, soon from SPD (http://www.spdbooks.org), & the 16th book at the recently-mentioned multi-publisher event in NYC, Thursday, May 9th 2002 at Metro Pictures (519 w. 24th St., NYC, 5:30-7:30 pm). Here^Òs an unwieldy blurb the publisher edited down, but which I like as is, bristling against its packaging function, because it implicitly situates the book among a tendency of writers: The halogen headlights glaring out of the well-lit tunnel of reflexivity -- where ambitious homologies provided the connective goo of language, agency and social relations -- belong to Louis Cabri^Òs The Mood Embosser. Replacing hopeful homologies with a poetics of articulation, the texts Cabri has compiled over the nineties (the cultural and economic moment when globalization has subsumed other debates), The Mood Embosser is not a materialization of a particular local, national or civic cultural formation, but the emergent beam of a politicized tendency of writers whose work shifts emphasis from the pedagogical construction of a productive reader to an accusatory address to both the causes and effects of the very visible thing called globalism. At the heartbreaking intersection of the subjective and the structural, The Mood Embosser is hilarious, angry and accurate. Cabri stands beside the current formation of capitalism, smiling in his "I'm With Stupid" T-shirt. The Mood Embosser is boss. --Jeff Derksen And this is a sentence at the bottom of this post that will likely disappear when I ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:18:42 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Book Event at Printed Matter 4 May MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was asked to remind interested parties of the BOOK LAUNCH PARTY FOR WRITING TO BE SEEN. Printed Matter 535 West 22nd St. New York, NY 10011 5-7 PM Saturday, May 4th, 2002 Anthology Contributors Marilyn Rosenberg, Kathy Ernst, Bill Keith and Scott Helmes will be present. The anthology is a Serious 11" by 8.5" glossy-covered 300+ paged collection of work and artists' statements by 12 leading American visual poets edited by Bob Grumman and Crag Hill. I wish I could be there, too, but I live too far away to ride my bike to it, and wouldn't be able to afford any other kind of transportation. Note: copies of the 500-copy first printing are starting to go, so if you're interested in visual poetry and what I call textual illumagery, you'd better get a copy soon--either at Printed Matter or from me. The book goes for $24, ppd., from me. I have twelve copies left of my original 100. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:23:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Fwd: PUB: call for papers--race in digital space 2.0 Comments: To: L-Poconater.psu.edu@psu.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 ========================================================== >>PUB: call for papers--race in digital space 2.0 ===================================== ------------ CALL FOR PAPERS AND EXHIBITS ---------- The University of Southern California (USC), The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), and the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB) are happy to announce: The 2ND ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND EXHIBITS ON RACE AND DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES: â^À^ÜRACE IN DIGITAL SPACE 2.0â^À^Ý 2002 Organizers: Tara McPherson, USC (School of Cinema-TV) Anna Everett, UCSB (Department of Film Studies) Henry Jenkins, MIT (Comparative Media Studies) Christiane Robbins, USC (School of Fine Arts) CALL FOR PAPERS AND EXHIBITS The Race in Digital Space 2.0 (RDS 2.0) organizers are convening a follow-up conference to the successful inaugural conference on the theme of race and new media technologies held last April on the campus of MIT. We envision this year's event as a vital springboard for ongoing dialogues concerning this crucial aspect of our post-industrial transition to the new global information economy. This year we are pleased to open up the discussion to a broader audience. Thus, we welcome your participation in a series of panel discussions, performances, exhibits, and poster sessions on the topic of â^À^ÜRace in Digital Space.â^À^Ý The RDS 2.0 Conference and Exhibit will be held in Los Angeles on the campus of USC during the weekend of October 10-13, 2002. EVENT OVERVIEW Since the 1996 advent of a graphical interface for the Internet technology opened up the World Wide Web (www) to the global masses, traditional communication systems within and between nation states have been fundamentally transformed. While much of our experiences with these new media technologies are primarily characterized in terms of â^À^Ýthe digital divideâ^À^Ý and â^À^Ünational security,â^À^Ý many scholars, individuals, grassroots organizations, and free speech activists, among others, have become increasingly concerned about efforts to limit these new technologies before their democratizing and liberatory potentials are fully realized. This situation has become especially acute in the wake of the 9-11 terrorist attacks in the U.S. Last yearâ^À^Ùs conference in April 2001 predated the events of 9-11. That timing enabled us to focus on celebrating â^À^Üminorityâ^À^Ý communitiesâ^À^Ù often-unacknowledged technolust and new media mastery, while simultaneously addressing the fact of unequal access to new digital technologies. Our approach was in stark contrast to the self-fulfilling prophecies of â^À^Üthe digital divideâ^À^Ùsâ^À^Ý often disabling rhetoric. This year, however, we find ourselves confronted by a new set of urgent digital media problematics, such as the White Houseâ^À^Ùs recent decision to defund community technology centers, high-tech racial profiling and cyber-surveillance, decreased corporate philanthropy, living wage issues in high-tech employment, and high fees for online connectivity. Consequently, we are seeking papers that extend last yearâ^À^Ùs focus, while simultaneously urging us to rethink many of these vexing issues in light of the 9-11 tragedy. Given the accelerated pace of new media technologiesâ^À^Ù ability to sway national and global public opinion on any number of pressing issues, and in lightening speed, we recognize the need for interventionist commentary and responses by committed individuals and groups concerned about where and how digital technologies will contribute to our rapidly changing world. We therefore urge you to get involved in this important dialogue by sharing your research, activism, artistry and business experiences with us. Currently, we envision plenary talks that address the following concerns: 1) The Digital Divide, Post 9-ll; 2) Tracking Bodies and Global Labor; 3) Entertaining Race: Representinâ^À^Ù Race in New Media Environments; 4) Remaking Race: Authenticating â^À^ÜOtherâ^À^Ý Voices in Digital Spaces; and 5) New Futures: Digital Theory Meets Digital Practice. In addition to these themes and ideas, we are seeking papers, presentations, projects and exhibits that address the following; however, we encourage other ideas and explorations as well. SUGGESTED TOPICS AND THEMES: ? Archiving and Preserving â^À^ÜOtherâ^À^Ý Experiences: The Role of Libraries in the Digital Age ? Globalism ? Surveillance/Technology/Borders ? Race and New Technologies/ Advertising ? Whiteness ? Success Stories/Best Practices ? Killer Apps For the Classroom And/Or â^À^ÜMinorityâ^À^Ý Business ? Subcultural Practices ? Access: Anti-trickle down Theories vs. Actual Implementation ? Health Care Issues and Access ? Spirituality and Religion ? Critiques of Colonialism/Techno-colonialism ? Body Tech ? Art and Activism/the Hactivist ? Digital Philanthropy: Profiting as Good Digital Corporate Citizens ? Citizens and Consumers/New World Markets ? WTO-Activism/Globalism/Technology: Lack of Race in WTO ? Dot.Com Bust/ Whoâ^À^Ùs Busted? A Disaster or Reprieve? ? Workers in New Media: First, Second, and 3rd World Workers; Visa Issues + New Media ? Employment Needs ? Voices From Washington/Policy Decisions/Public Discourse on Technology ? Digital Citizens vs. Digital Consumers ? Viruses/Understanding How Technology Works/Transparency ? Stealth Marketing/Viral Marketing ? Digital Rights/Digital Piracy ? Media Coverage of New Technology ? Generational Technology Use/Age and Technology/ Youth Cultures ? Bridging the Gap Between Theory and Practice/Entry Level Technologies: Digital Video and Do it Yourself (DIY) Appeals ? Turntablism ? Web Art: Streaming Media ? Digital Soundscapes Please send 250-500 word proposals to race@annenberg.edu no later than June 15, 2002. Snail mail copies may be sent to RDS 2.0/c/o Tara McPherson/Critical Studies/School of Cinema-TV/USC/LA CA 90089-2211. We encourage proposals for papers, art projects, performances and other modes of creative expression. The weekend will feature both the conference and selected exhibitions and performances. Race in Digital Space Founding Organizers: Henry Jenkins/Anna Everett/Tara McPherson/Erika Muhammad PLEASE CIRCULATE WIDELY! >> ############################################# <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tell Her -- the page I never wrote! Tell Her, I only said -- the Syntax -- And left the Verb and the Pronoun -- out! --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:27:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Fwd: A Peace Proposal? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was sent to me today by Kent Johnson, who asked that it be forwarded to the list. -- dh Over at Poetics they've been talking in earnest of Language poetry, what it is, what the avant-garde is, etc. Messages are appearing five or six a minute, so it seems that Poetics is no longer moderated. So I wrote Charles Bernstein a very nice note to suggest that now might be a good time to bury old pettinesses and to invite back those (me, Henry Gould, Gabe Gudding, Carlo Pacelli) who had been expelled more than three years ago. I sent that two days back; no courtesy of response yet. I'd proposed here the other day that the erstwhile Marxist Language poets were to the traditional U.S. poetry wing what the Democratic Party is to the Republican Party. In other words, the Democrats and Republicans wrangle theatrically over policy, while at bottom they are as one in their commitment to those literary relations of production that rest like an elephant on the material shell of the giant tortoise of ideologically determined cultural property forms which persist, within the bigger and evolving mode of production that gave birth to them, to this postmodern day. It's probably long-winded sentences like that that got me kicked off in the first place. Maybe when I wrote Charles the other day about smoking the peace pipe my sentences were too long and so that's why he hasn't written back. I know that my sentences are too long. And Gabe Gudding's posts are full of typos. But Henry Gould's posts are as if written by Henry James, elegant and mellifluous (is that how you spell mellifluous, Robin? I think so, but it doesn;t matter). So maybe it's not just that my sentences are too long. Maybe it's something else... The little Popular Frontist Stalinoids. Grrrr. Happy b-day to Ron Silliman (36) and Jose Carlos Mariategui (110)! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:45:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hess Subject: Whirled MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Like Huysmans' Des Esseintes to have the perfect library of almost nothing something too beautiful to read or touch not more than once then to dream about it for the rest of time He admitted it the truly great bored him only the imperfect could sing the impure word-drops condensations and shades of entire lives in a few lines could satisfy him the pollutant delicacy irritant in time's steamroller tide jewelled nail sticking out lying in wait for the inflated tires of progress ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:48:12 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Fwd: A Peace Proposal? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or Monsieur Bernstein gets thousands of emails? Charles Bernstein doesnt exist per se: he's in Cyberland:he's an entry in an American poetry anthology:...he's the Tail Wagging the Dog: he's a Language Poet:he's read lots of philosophy, but he's embarrassed because he never read Henry James. He read the other James thinking he was the writer...in fact it was this and similar errors by other would be "traditionalists" which initiated the L=A G movement: but that aside: in my capacity as the longest sentence writer on the list I hereby reappoint you back on in the spirit of democracy, mellifluousness, and general largesse: besides which I'm drunk: I'm a drunken boat:but welcome on board:we're all in this crazy mess together: as each of is a Captain Hook for whom alas there waiteth a Crocodile (Yo Ho Ho!):the only thing is you must all write a language poem for the Listees: that requirement satisfied, feel thyselves on board. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hess" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 5:27 PM Subject: Fwd: A Peace Proposal? > This message was sent to me today by Kent Johnson, who asked that it be > forwarded to the list. -- dh > > > Over at Poetics they've been talking in earnest of Language poetry, > what it is, what the avant-garde is, etc. Messages are appearing > five or six a minute, so it seems that Poetics is no longer > moderated. So I wrote Charles Bernstein a very nice note to > suggest that now might be a good time to bury old pettinesses and > to invite back those (me, Henry Gould, Gabe Gudding, Carlo > Pacelli) who had been expelled more than three years ago. I sent > that two days back; no courtesy of response yet. > > I'd proposed here the other day that the erstwhile Marxist Language > poets were to the traditional U.S. poetry wing what the Democratic > Party is to the Republican Party. In other words, the Democrats > and Republicans wrangle theatrically over policy, while at bottom > they are as one in their commitment to those literary relations of > production that rest like an elephant on the material shell of the > giant tortoise of ideologically determined cultural property forms > which persist, within the bigger and evolving mode of production > that gave birth to them, to this postmodern day. > > It's probably long-winded sentences like that that got me kicked off > in the first place. Maybe when I wrote Charles the other day about > smoking the peace pipe my sentences were too long and so that's > why he hasn't written back. I know that my sentences are too long. > And Gabe Gudding's posts are full of typos. But Henry Gould's > posts are as if written by Henry James, elegant and mellifluous (is > that how you spell mellifluous, Robin? I think so, but it doesn;t > matter). So maybe it's not just that my sentences are too long. > Maybe it's something else... The little Popular Frontist Stalinoids. > Grrrr. > > Happy b-day to Ron Silliman (36) and Jose Carlos Mariategui (110)! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:07:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Friday_in_Montr=E9al?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone on this poetics list in Montr=E9al these days? Any writing arising= from these scenes? Aaron Vidaver Vancouver ________________________________________________ A - I N F O S N E W S S E R V I C E http://www.ainfos.ca/ ________________________________________________ [Attached below are four articles relating to the anti-G8 Labour Ministers' demo in Montreal last night organized by the Anti-Capitalist Convergence (CLAC) of Montreal. The first two articles are from Indymedia Montreal, the third is an eyewitness account distributed by e-mail, and the fourth is from the mainstream Canadian Press. The CLAC media committee is organizing a public response to last night's events. More details to follow.] ----- 1 ----- from Indymedia Montreal http://montreal.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=3D3666&group=3Dwebcast Demo against the G8 goes sour quickly as hundreds of demonstrators are prevented from marching. Hundreds of demonstrators gathered in Place Dominion at Peel and Ren=E9 Levesque 4pm today to march to where G8 ministers were dining. For two hours, anti-capitalists shared free food, spoke out against the G8, danced and peacefully converged. But at 6pm, right when the march was scheduled to leave Place Dominion, police emerged from the underground parking lot and surrounding alleyways and quickly surrounded the the 400-odd demonstrators. Police cordoned the demonstrators into a tight circle at the northwest corner of the square, on Peel St. between Ste. Catherine and Ren=E9-Levesque= . Some managed to slip through restaurants on Peel, aided by fast food workers who provided safe passage through their restaurant's back door. The crowd that managed to escape regrouped on Ste. Catherine between Peel and Metcalfe, in front of large crowds of Friday shoppers. A lit dumpster was rolled towards the police line, barricades were erected, the twenty-five cyclists from critical mass showed up, and two kickass breakdancers were teaching Ste. Catherine pavement a lesson that it would never forget. A lonely police van parked in front of HMV soon became the target for energetic deconstruction. Once its windows were smashed a duffel bag filled with riot gear was expropriated from the rear seat and distributed to demonstrators. =AB Violence is the same facism that we?re fighting against =BB yelled one demonstrator. But a few hours later an enthusiastic dancer paraded his shiny white riot helmet, to a roaring appreciative crowd of onlookers. It seemed that the Friday-night Ste. Catherine set were as pleased by the demonstrators? show of resistance as they were befuddled by the police presence and brutality. But scenes like this are not unfamiliar to Montreal. On March 15th, International day against police brutality, anti-police brutality demonstrators were ringed in a similiar cordon and were kept waiting for hours in the cold rain to be processed. 371 arrests were made. As Der Kosmonaut predicted after the March 15th action, "Protesters in future actions should expect more pincer tactics employed by the police." The 250 or so demonstrators that were horded up tonight were processed one by one, some of them interrogated, and loaded up on 7 buses and brought to nearby metro stops. Some were ticketed for illegal assembly ($138 fine), others were released with no ticket, but others still may have been held and charged with other offences. ----- 2 ----- from Indymedia Montreal http://montreal.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=3D3659&group=3Dwebcast police arrest hundreds by yves engler 8:25pm Fri Apr 26 '02 (Modified on 10:08pm Fri Apr 26 '02) yvesengler@hotmail.com anti-G8 rally is stopped before it starts Today's anti-G8 rally and supposed to be march was attacked illegally by the cops. Personally I showed up a couple of minutes after the cops had encircled people, but I've talked to numerous people who were there. Basically, people started gathering at the park on Peel and Rene Levesque at 4. Around 5:30 about 200-500 protestors were circled by the cops. I left at about 9 oclock and around half of all protestors corned had been arrested. I understand that they were brought in city buses and dropped off at a metro station and forced on the metro without charges. Between 5:30 and 9 there was a continuous back and forth between cops and activists along St Catherine, up Peel and at the park. I witnessed cops beat and maze numerous people. Mostly those who had the misfortune of falling when chased by the police. The police's action caused some response in terms of a damaged police van and a numer of garbage cans ripped out. All in all it was quite minor considering an HMV, Roots and Bank of Nova Scotia within metres were all left completely untouched. Even though the cops had provoked hundreds of activists. During the evening thousands upon thousands of montrealers walked by the line of police officers dressed in riot gear and for the most part seemed taken aback by the violent nature and posture of 'our'police force. ----- 3 ----- Eye Witness Testimony to the Montreal G8 arrests, April 26, 2002: Between 11:30 and 12 noon, I attended a demonstration organized by the unions in Carr=E9 St-Louis to protest the globalization meetings of the G8= in Montreal. The riot police were present, but did not bother anyone. I arrived at Dominion Park about 6:10 p.m. to check out the second scheduled anti-globalization demonstration that began at 4 p.m.. The Montreal riot police had cordoned off a group of about 200 people nearby in the middle of rue Peel at the rue Cathcart intersection. While tense, there was little movement or noise in the Dominion Park and arrest area The cordoned protesters were mostly still, and mostly quiet. A few waved placards and flags. All reports I received from five witnesses stated that these anti G8 marchers left Dominion Park on rue Peel peacefully and then were surrounded within several minutes by riot police. There were no reports of vandalism or illegal activity from the protesters. North of the arrest area at the Peel and Ste. Catherine intersection, a crowd of several hundred developed. People who were part of the anti-G8 march but escaped the riot police cordon stated that most of the people gathering were passer-by's and not part of the anti-G8 march. I was at that intersection around 6:30 p.m.. Two or three trash cans had been emptied in the intersection, and one was smouldering from a fire. The youth with the trash cans were not anyone of the political activists I recognized from the anti-G8 activists. Over the next 45 minutes that I stayed in the general area, a growing number of passer-by's became interested in the scene, and many seemed to participate in running away from the riot police when they would clear out the crowd, and then these same people would return when the police retreated. Some threw objects at the riot police. Back at the riot police cordon, the mass arrest of the protesters proceeded calmly. I did not see any acts of resisting arrests both passively or actively. I saw approximately 6 - 8 people frisked and lead to a police bus. Returning to Ste Catherine between Peel and Metcalf, a police mini van was being vandalized by two or three youths (again no one I recognized from the activists). An activist I know was cautioning people via a portable sound system not to panic, to be calm, to beware of the danger and the approaching riot police, and not to do anything that would add to the danger (like destroying property). This person was trying to prevent a riot, that the police actions were seeming to provoke. It seems that the situation developed as such: A peaceful anti G8 demonstration left Dominion Park. They were immediately surrounded by riot police. There was no evidence of any lawbreaking besides the police depriving people of their constitutional right to protest. Those that were arrested from the anti G8 demonstration were peaceful throughout. Outside this police cordon, many people were attracted to the riot police show of force and the mass arrest of people. People watching became angry at the mass arrest. This lead to several acts of vandalism outside the police cordon. None of the people doing the vandalism seem to be political activists, nor were they targeted by the police for arrest. The riot police provoked the ensuing vandalism and potential riot by their abuse of power when they (again for the second time in two months), mass arrested young protesters who were peacefully taking a political stand against the government. The political activists were non-violent; the police were depriving them of their rights; and passer-by's reacted to this dynamic started engaging in vandalism and throwing objects at the police. It seems clear that certain dissent is illegally being suppressed, and that the police have been given license to violate the Canadian Bill of Rights. The government is separating the youth protesters from the older union and NGO protests. They are targeting the youth for abuse and arrest, regardless of their similar forms of protests and identical issues they are protesting. They are criminalizing the youth who do not have the resources of the powerful unions to protect them. Given the history, I fully expect the police to justify the illegal mass arrests because of the vandalism that took place by those not targeted for arrest, and which started 30 minutes after the targeted protesters were stopped and arrested by the riot police. Scott Weinstein April 26, 2002, 10:15 p.m. weinstei@zoo.net ----- 4 ----- http://www.canada.com/news/story.asp?id=3D{337D2A69-B33B-486B-A99E-22B9D22EE= 2B7 } Riot police quell Montreal protesters who oppose G-8 labour ministers meeting Canadian Press Friday, April 26, 2002 ADVERTISEMENT MONTREAL (CP) - Relative calm returned to downtown streets late Friday evening after police searched hundreds of anti-globalization protesters for weapons and incendiary devices. An undisclosed number of people were arrested and fined $140 for unlawful assembly. Others were released and sent home. Riot police armed with clubs and pepper spray moved in at about 6 p.m. to encircle the demonstrators who gathered in a square near Ste-Catherine Street. They had been marching peacefully, chanting and holding banners denouncing a two-day gathering in the city of labour ministers from the world's eight largest industrialized countries. Federal Human Resources Minister Jane Stewart was presiding over the Friday-Saturday meeting. City police said they responded after receiving information that some of the protesters were planning to throw Molotov cocktails or rocks. "It was not simply a blind thing that decided that action," said police spokesman Andre Durocher. But supporters decried the police action as an infringement of their rights to free assembly and expression. Protest organizers from the Anti-Capitalist Convergence had promised to turn out to oppose the G-8 meeting. Some of their members greeted visiting ministers Thursday evening as they met with international union and business leaders at McGill University and had dinner. Karina Chagnon, a spokeswoman for the Anti-Capitalist Convergence, said the meetings were a sham. "The G-8 is the fuzzy mitten that drives the hidden hand of the market and the iron fist of the military," she told reporters on Thursday at an outdoor news conference in driving rain. "The G-8 is like slavery. There is no way of reforming it. We must fight to abolish it." Chagnon said protesters were also preparing to go to Ottawa on June 26-27 to demonstrate against the G-8 meeting to be held in Kananaskis, Alta., but was not specific about tactics. She accused the G-8 of letting companies make maximum profits by eliminating labour norms and standards, slashing salaries and gutting unions. ******** ****** The A-Infos News Service ****** News about and of interest to anarchists ****** COMMANDS: lists@ainfos.ca REPLIES: a-infos-d@ainfos.ca HELP: a-infos-org@ainfos.ca WWW: http://www.ainfos.ca/ INFO: http://www.ainfos.ca/org -To receive a-infos in one language only mail lists@ainfos.ca the message: unsubscribe a-infos subscribe a-infos-X where X =3D en, ca, de, fr, etc. (i.e. the language code) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Fwd: A Peace Proposal? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nice note since i was exposed to chaos /fractals i no longer do sentences nothing is a complete thought its all about beginnings besides i understand myself Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:30:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: A Peace Proposal? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes yes they cried oui, oui, oiu, todas way home sheila ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:27:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: fwd: cfp Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Maria Damon Subject: cfp i myself wouldn't call 9-11 "the apocalypse" or "reinvision" anything but... CALL FOR PAPERS AFTER THE APOCALYPSE: REINVISIONING OUR RESEARCH AND CURRICULA Thirty-Third Annual Conference of the College English Association 3-5 April 2003 St. Petersburg, Florida Until 11 September 2001, we existed in a more or less safe world. The terrorism that devastated our nation on that date shook the foundations of every structure of our emotion and intellect. Positioned now in the aftermath of sifting, sorting, discarding, and reconstructing, we strive to make sense of life and thought in a changed age. One thing is certain=F3it can no longer be business as usual in academia. Proposals are invited which address the kinds of ways we can and should transform our research and teaching in our now-unsettled age. Proposals of 500 words engaging the conference theme MUST BE POSTMARKED BY 15 OCTOBER 2002. Notification of acceptance will be made soon after 15 November. All presenters must be paid members in good standing of CEA by 15 December. Proposals for either individual papers (15 minutes) or single focused sessions or forums (60 minutes) must include 1) Phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and snail-mail addresses of organizer and all participants 2) A description of content and method, with attention to how the topic addresses the conference theme All presenters please note: *CEA Membership is required (membership forms will accompany acceptance letter). *Only one paper or panel per person will be accepted. *Presenters are eligible to serve as chair or respondent. Notify Program Chair if you wish to be considered. *Graduate students please self-identify at proposal stage, as you are eligible for a Best-Paper Award of $50. Three final copies of your paper will be required, postmarked by 1 March 2003. *CEA cannot sponsor or fund travel or participant costs *Papers read at regional CEA meetings should be so identified in the proposal stage. They must be substantially revised to be considered; proposal must state directions revision will take. Address all correspondence concerning proposals, papers, and program to: Jill Barnum Gidmark, 2003 CEA Program Chair University of Minnesota General College PHONE: 612.625.0855 140 Appleby Hall, 128 Pleasant St. SE FAX: 612.625.0709 Minneapolis, MN 55455 E-MAIL: gidma001@tc.umn.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:41:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: a vile republic In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Aha, gentle list reader-- you thought the subject line referred to the U.S. Ironically enough, it refers to Iraq. Here is an interesting article from the Observer. + + + + + + + Inside a vile republic No one should be in any doubt about Saddam's depraved intentions Henry McDonald Sunday April 28, 2002 The Observer=20 Children aged between five and 10 are tortured and beaten. Their screams an= d cries are recorded on video. The horrific images are then shown to other men.=20 But this is no sick, paedophile, child-abusing fantasy captured on camera. According to one man who was forced to watch these vile scenes, the terror inflicted on these tiny victims was motivated principally for cold-hearted political reasons. Because whatever revolting pleasure was obtained by the torturers and the filmcrew alike, the main purpose of this recorded sadism was to brutalise, terrorise and wear down potential enemies and traitors. This repulsive testimony of child torture as psychological warfare comes vi= a a defector from the sinister Iraqi Mukhabarat or intelligence service and demonstrates the depravity of a regime objectively defended by Irish and other Western peaceniks. The defector's claims appear in the current edition of Vanity Fair, compile= d by David Rose. Never before has an article provoked such a feeling of disgust. For Rose's account of the extent to which Saddam Hussein's dictatorship will go to terrify its own servants and agents makes the flesh crawl. More disturbing still is the defector's allegations about the length= s the Ba'athist =E9lite have gone in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction.=20 For example, the former Iraqi agent claims he travelled to Africa to buy highly toxic 'radioactive material with which to build a dirty radiological bomb' that kills thousands slowly through radioactive pollution and cancers= . He also outlines how Saddam's tyranny trains and finances Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic fundamentalist movement. According to the defector, it was Iraq which taught Hamas how to make bombs. Moreover, he says that Iraq has developed a new missile system to hit Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt and Iran as well, of course, as Israel. Rose's courageous and thoroughly researched report will make uncomfortable reading for those on the Western Left most vociferously opposed to any United States-led attack on Iraq. Because if the defector is telling the truth (his evidence is supported by Charles Duelfer, the former deputy head of UNSCOM, the mission aimed at overseeing the destruction of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction), then there are serious challenges for the Wes= t and hard questions for Western peace groups. For Western governments, especially those EU nations, including Ireland, which still adopt an ostrich-like approach to Iraq's nuclear ambitions, the dilemma will not disappear - how to stop Saddam getting the bomb. Every pacific avenue has been tried since the second Gulf War, from diplomacy to sanctions, and yet the Baghdad dictatorship, according to former agents such as the one who spoke to Rose, continues to search for th= e technology and raw material needed to build nuclear, biological and chemica= l weapons.=20 The defector outlines how the regime evades sanctions through a series of front companies in the Middle East and Europe to import material into Iraq that forms the basis of 'dirty bio-bombs' that can kill tens of thousands. His evidence suggests that even targeted smart sanctions may not prevent th= e acquisition of these weapons. The United States and the EU are then left with only one other option - military intervention. Some policy-makers express concern that an outright military assault on Saddam and the Ba'ath will set the entire Middle East ablaze. They argue that in an atmosphere of seething Arab anger over the Israeli incursions into Palestinian territory, invading Iraq would push the region over the edge into widespread, possibly global, conflict. This thesis, however, entirely misses the point of Saddam's project to buil= d a nuclear, chemical and/or bio-bomb. Iraq's acquisition of weapons of mass destruction is designed precisely to escalate the Arab-Israeli conflict int= o a nuclear confrontation. Young Arabs such as the polite Palestinian student I met last Thursday evening in Queen's University Belfast look forward to the day of the Arab bomb. And their goal, according to him, regardless of the rhetoric about two-state solutions from the PLO's apologists in the West, is the complete destruction of the state of Israel, if necessary through the use of, or threatened use of, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.=20 The trouble with Western peace groups and their leftist support base is tha= t they have held a starry-eyed or, in the case of the Irish Left, a Starry-Plough-eyed view of the Third World, especially those states that style themselves 'anti-imperialist'. What they surely cannot ignore any longer is the existence of a regime that endangers the stability not only o= f the Middle East but perhaps the planet itself and which will torture and murder even its own children in order to shore up Saddam's Republic of Fear= . henry.mcdonald@observer.co.uk http://www.observer.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,706471,00.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:00:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Brainiac In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brainiac=20 Currently, Brainiac assumes control=20 even in light of poems razed=20 you from the material; dead, yet with Lazarus in tow We are all corpses, copies=20 lost data can be a devastating=20 kindred, tongue, people, nation our spiritual estate of the rampaging monster Doomsday=20 for yet another attack against Superman and his allies. is one of complete death, no life within at all. Therefore no response. The sinful cannot change=20 Vril Dox or "Brainiac," held a coup, seizing control of the world=92s super computers=20 His mind can meld the binary relationships=20 of man and machine a freak show mentalist=20 We've Recovered over One Million Megabytes of Lost Data=20 But If you were here to help in the actions of others=20 it would seem that that the great ideals=20 from across the void, vast telepathic and psychokinetic powers=20 of the all that is American, fanatical promotions of truth and justice As all wives say when I am of no use=20 their continued life alone concentrated on my failures When Brainiac began wasting away,=20 where he forced to dream=20 geneticists and cyberneticists=20 to enhance his body.=20 =20 Superman discovered Brainiac's rebirth too late,=20 and Brainiac retreated into space to further raid, quest=20 =09 powers As punishment, the atoms of his body were dispersed,=20 but his mind somehow managed to survive.=20 Where there is life there is hope; are all corpses,=20 Where death all things continue, copies of lost data ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:08:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Moriarty/Stefans @ St. Mark's, Wednesday, May 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [Guitarist Alan Licht will be performing with me for some of my half -- bks.] May 1st, 8 pm Laura Moriarty and Brian Kim Stefans Laura Moriarty is the author of Two Cross Seizings (Sombre Reptiles), Persia (Chance Additions), Duse (Coincidence Press), like roads (Kelsey St. Press), Rondeaux (Roof Books) and L'Archiviste (Zasterle Press). She is the Director of the American Poetry Archives at The Poetry Center at San Francisco State University. Brian Kim Stefans is the author of Angry Penguins, Gulf and Free Space Comix (Roof). His book of essays and poems, Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics, is forthcoming from Atelos Books. Visual poetry, including a Flash poem "The Dreamlife of Letters," can be found at www.ubu.com. He is the editor of Arras, devoted to electronic poetries: www.arras.net. St. Mark's Church, 131 E. 10th St., New York, NY 10003 http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:33:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: children's rhyme/game query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kasey, list: Part of my childhood I grew up in a small, rural upstate county a few miles from a spiritualist community, and I learned this game from the children who lived there, who where sons and daughters of spiritualists: Satan's Coming A letter must be taken, and the termination "ing". Say, for instance, that P is chosen. The 1st player says to the second, "Satan's Coming." "How's he coming?" says the 2nd. "Playing," rejoins the 1st. The 2nd then says to the 3rd, "Satan's Coming." "How?" "Prancing on cloven hooves;" And so the question and reply go round, through all the words beginning with P and ending with ing -- piping, pulling, pining, praising, preaching, etc. Those who cannot answer the question on the spur of the moment "Will be collected by Satan." It was a highly charged "game" on many levels, and all these years later, it's stayed with me. --Gerald Schwartz > A friend of mine has written me saying that he and his wife had > > >started thinking about all those things that get transmitted > >down from kid to kid, like "ollie ollie oxen free," or choosing rhymes > >like "one potato two potato" or "eenie meanie minie moe." We started to > >think there might be an interesting project in this (that's code for > >book). we thought it would be a good idea to preserve some of this stuff > >and also to find the roots of it. (Just on a preliminary search, I found > >that hide and seek was probably played in ancient Greece.) Does anybody > >remember any good games or rhymes or anything from when they were kids? > >It could be rope jumping rhymes or even games that kids played in your > >area or activities like Bloody Mary, which my older brother taught me to > >scare the pants off me. Anything. > > So I thought that the list might be a good resource for getting some > responses, considering the rhyme-aspect of the question. Any ideas (front > or back-channel)? > > Kasey > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:44:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: children's rhyme/game query In-Reply-To: <003301c1ef93$27cf1bc0$8c908141@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This sounds like the old parlor game the Minister's Cat Same kind of round but with a similar first letter game but it goes around from A to B to C The ministers cat is an able cat The ministers cat is a bouncy cat The ministers cat is a cuddly cat The ministers cat is a droll cat The ministers cat is an envious cat The ministers cat is a fat cat The ministers cat is a ginger cat The ministers cat is a horrible cat The ministers cat is an ingenious cat The ministers cat is a jolly cat The ministers cat is a kooky cat And so on :-) Best, Geoffrey -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of schwartzgk Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:33 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: children's rhyme/game query Kasey, list: Part of my childhood I grew up in a small, rural upstate county a few miles from a spiritualist community, and I learned this game from the children who lived there, who where sons and daughters of spiritualists: Satan's Coming A letter must be taken, and the termination "ing". Say, for instance, that P is chosen. The 1st player says to the second, "Satan's Coming." "How's he coming?" says the 2nd. "Playing," rejoins the 1st. The 2nd then says to the 3rd, "Satan's Coming." "How?" "Prancing on cloven hooves;" And so the question and reply go round, through all the words beginning with P and ending with ing -- piping, pulling, pining, praising, preaching, etc. Those who cannot answer the question on the spur of the moment "Will be collected by Satan." It was a highly charged "game" on many levels, and all these years later, it's stayed with me. --Gerald Schwartz > A friend of mine has written me saying that he and his wife had > > >started thinking about all those things that get transmitted > >down from kid to kid, like "ollie ollie oxen free," or choosing rhymes > >like "one potato two potato" or "eenie meanie minie moe." We started to > >think there might be an interesting project in this (that's code for > >book). we thought it would be a good idea to preserve some of this stuff > >and also to find the roots of it. (Just on a preliminary search, I found > >that hide and seek was probably played in ancient Greece.) Does anybody > >remember any good games or rhymes or anything from when they were kids? > >It could be rope jumping rhymes or even games that kids played in your > >area or activities like Bloody Mary, which my older brother taught me to > >scare the pants off me. Anything. > > So I thought that the list might be a good resource for getting some > responses, considering the rhyme-aspect of the question. Any ideas (front > or back-channel)? > > Kasey > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:51:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Clarification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A number of people have commented over the past few weeks to the effect that the Poetics List is no longer moderated. While, given our change of format, I understand why that might be the general perception, still the assessment is not quite accurate. For the sake of clarification, I'd like to draw attention to the first section of the updated Welcome Message; I'll send a copy of the entire Welcome Message momentarily. Those of you who have been on the list for some time can see that we haven't returned wholly to the policy of four years ago, but have hoped instead to achieve some species of middle ground. For the most part, everyone at this end has been pleased with the results. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- 1. About the Poetics List The Poetics List is a moderated list. Due to the increasing number of subscribers, we are no longer able to maintain the open format with which the list began (at under 100 subscribers). All submissions are reviewed by the moderators in keeping with the goals of the list, as articulated in this Welcome Message. The specific form of moderation that we employ is a relatively fluid one: in most cases, messages are reviewed after having been posted to the list, and difficulties resolved on that basis; however, the list moderators may shift with impunity between this and a pre-review mode which calls for all messages to be read and approved before being forwarded to the list. We prefer to avoid this option, as it hampers the spontaneity of discussion that we hope to promote. In addition to these options, the list moderators may place subscribers who find themselves unable to abide by the rules of the list under individual review, in which case only their messages would be received for moderators' approval before being forwarded to the list. For further information, please see number 4, the Cautions section of this Welcome Message. We remain committed to this editorial function as a defining element of the Poetics List. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:05:41 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: fwd: cfp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought it said All presenters must be paid members in good standing of CIA Maria Damon wrote: > From: Maria Damon > Subject: cfp > > i myself wouldn't call 9-11 "the apocalypse" or "reinvision" anything but... > > CALL FOR PAPERS > > AFTER THE APOCALYPSE: > REINVISIONING OUR RESEARCH AND CURRICULA > > Thirty-Third Annual Conference of the College English Association > > 3-5 April 2003 > St. Petersburg, Florida > > Until 11 September 2001, we existed in a more or less safe world. The > terrorism that devastated our nation on that date shook the foundations of > every structure of our emotion and intellect. Positioned now in the > aftermath of sifting, sorting, discarding, and reconstructing, we strive to > make sense of life and thought in a changed age. One thing is certain=F3it > can no longer be business as usual in academia. Proposals are invited > which address the kinds of ways we can and should transform our research > and teaching in our now-unsettled age. > > Proposals of 500 words engaging the conference theme MUST BE POSTMARKED BY > 15 OCTOBER 2002. Notification of acceptance will be made soon after 15 > November. All presenters must be paid members in good standing of CEA by > 15 December. > > Proposals for either individual papers (15 minutes) or single focused > sessions or forums (60 minutes) must include > 1) Phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and snail-mail addresses of organizer > and all participants > 2) A description of content and method, with attention to how the topic > addresses the conference theme > > All presenters please note: > *CEA Membership is required (membership forms will accompany acceptance > letter). > *Only one paper or panel per person will be accepted. > *Presenters are eligible to serve as chair or respondent. Notify Program > Chair if you wish to be considered. > *Graduate students please self-identify at proposal stage, as you are > eligible for a Best-Paper Award of $50. Three final copies of your > paper will be required, postmarked by 1 March 2003. > *CEA cannot sponsor or fund travel or participant costs > *Papers read at regional CEA meetings should be so identified in the > proposal stage. They must be substantially revised to be considered; > proposal must state directions revision will take. > > Address all correspondence concerning proposals, papers, and program to: > Jill Barnum Gidmark, 2003 CEA Program Chair > University of Minnesota General College PHONE: 612.625.0855 > 140 Appleby Hall, 128 Pleasant St. SE FAX: 612.625.0709 > Minneapolis, MN 55455 E-MAIL: > gidma001@tc.umn.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:00:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Welcome Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome to the Poetics List & The Electronic Poetry Center .sponsored by The Poetics Program, Department of English, College of Arts & Science, the State University of New York, Buffalo /// Postal Address: Poetics Program, 438 Clemens Hall, SUNY Buffalo, NY 14260 Poetics List Moderators: Christopher W. Alexander et al. Please address all inquiries to . Electronic Poetry Center: =3D Contents =3D 1. About the Poetics List 2. Subscriptions 3. Posting to the List 4. Cautions 5. Digest Option 6. Temporarily turning off Poetics mail 7. "Review Subscribership" Policy 8. The Electronic Poetry Center (EPC) 9. Poetics Archives at EPC This Welcome Message updated 27 April 2002. -- Above the world-weary horizons New obstacles for exchange arise Or unfold, O ye postmasters! 1. About the Poetics List With the preceeding epigraph, the Poetics List was founded by Charles Bernstein in late 1993. Now in its second incarnation, the list carries over 900 subscribers worldwide, though all of these subscribers do not necessarily receive messages at any given time. A good number of other people read the Poetics List via our web archives at the Electronic Poetry Center (see section 10 below). Please note that this is a private list and information about this list should not be posted to other lists or directories of lists. The idea is to keep the list membership to those with specific rather than general interests, and also to keep the scale of the list relatively small and the volume manageable. The current limits of the list are 50 messages per day, and two messages per subscriber per day. The Poetics List is a moderated list. Due to the increasing number of subscribers, we are no longer able to maintain the open format with which the list began (at under 100 subscribers). All submissions are reviewed by the moderators in keeping with the goals of the list, as articulated in this Welcome Message. The specific form of moderation that we employ is a relatively fluid one: in most cases, messages are reviewed after having been posted to the list, and difficulties resolved on that basis; however, the list moderators may shift with impunity between this and a pre-review mode which calls for all messages to be read and approved before being forwarded to the list. We prefer to avoid this option, as it hampers the spontaneity of discussion that we hope to promote. In addition to these options, the list moderators may place subscribers who find themselves unable to abide by the rules of the list under individual review, in which case only their messages would be received for moderators' approval before being forwarded to the list. For further information, please see number 4, the Cautions section of this Welcome Message. We remain committed to this editorial function as a defining element of the Poetics List. Our aim is to support, inform, and extend those directions in poetry that are committed to innovations, renovations, and investigations of form and/or/as content, to the questioning of received forms and styles, and to the creation of the otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible. We recognize that other lists may sponsor other possibilities for exchange in this still-new medium. We request that those participating in this forum keep in mind the specialized and focussed nature of this project, and respect our decision to operate a moderated list. For subscription information or to contact the moderators, write to . For further information on posting to the list, see sections 3 and 4. below. Publishers and series co-ordinators, see also section 8. In addition to being archived at the EPC, some posts to Poetics (especially reviews, obituary notices, announcements, etc.) may also become part of specific EPC subject areas. Brief reviews of poetry events and publications are always welcome. See section 8 for details. ------------------- 2. Subscriptions Subscriptions to the Poetics List are free of charge, but formal registration is required. We ask that when you subscribe you provide your full name, street address, email address, and telephone number. All posts to the list should provide your full real name, as registered. If there is any discrepancy between your full name as it appears in the "from" line of the message header, please sign your post at the bottom. To subscribe to the Poetics List, please contact the moderators at . Your message should include all of the required information. Please allow several days for your new or re-subscription to take effect. PLEASE NOTE: All subscription-related information and correspondence remains absolutely confidential. 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All messages are reviewed by the moderators in keeping with the goals of the list as articulated in this Welcome Message (see section 1). Please note that while this list is primarily concerned with discussions of poetry and poetics, messages relating to politics and political activism, film, art, media, and so forth are also welcome. Feel free to query the list moderators if you are uncertain as to whether a message is appropriate. All correspondence with the moderators regarding submissions to the list remains confidential and should be directed to us at . We strongly encourage subscribers to post information on publications and reading series that they have coordinated, edited, published, or in which they appear. Such announcements constitute a core function of this list. Brief reviews of poetry events and publications are always welcome. To post to the Poetics List, send your messages directly to the list address: Please do not send messages intended for posting to the list to our administrative address . For further information on posting to the list, see section 4 below. Publishers and series co-ordinators, see also section 9. ------------------- 4. Cautions 'Caveat lector': The Poetics List has become increasingly, though in small proportion, occupied by subscribers who interest themselves in pseudonymous authorship. The practice, while not encouraged by the moderators, is tolerated on the grounds that it is no more practicably eradicable than effectually harmful - not harmful, that is, until it becomes so on the level of particular, individual interactions. The feeling, for subscribers unaware of the circumstance, may be - and perhaps justifiably so - one of having been 'duped.' 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Temporarily turning off Poetics mail Please do not leave your Poetics subscription "active" if you are going to be away for any extended period of time! Your account may become flooded and you may lose not only Poetics messages but other important mail. You can temporarily turn off your Poetics subscription by sending this one-line message, with no "subject" line, to : set poetics nomail You may re-activate your poetics subscription by sending this one-line message, with no "subject" line, to the same address: set poetics mail When you return you can check or download missed postings from the Poetics archive. (See section 9 below.) ------------------- 7. "Review Subscribership" policy For the safety and security of list subscribers, the "review subscribers" function of the Poetics List has been de-activated. Non-posting subscribers' email addresses will remain confidential. Please do not ask the list editors to give out subscriber addresses or other personal information. Address queries are, of course, welcome to be posted to the list. ------------------- 8. What is the Electronic Poetry Center? The World Wide Web-based Electronic Poetry Center is located at . The EPC's mission is to serve as a gateway to the extraordinary range of activity in formally innovative writing and digital media poetry in the United States and around the world. The Center provides access to extensive resources in new poetries. These include our E-POETRY library, our links to digital VIDEO and SOUND (including our award-winning LINEbreak series of radio interviews and performances) as well as e-journals such as lume, Deluxe Rubber Chicken, Alyricmailer, and many others, the POETICS List archives, an AUTHOR library of electronic poetry texts and bibliographies, and direct connections to numerous related electronic RESOURCES. The Center also provides information about contemporary electronic poetry magazines and print little magazines and SMALL PRESSES engaged in poetry and poetics. Visit the EPC's many libraries, the featured resources available on the EPC home page, or its NEW listings, where recent additions are available for quick access. The EPC is directed by Loss Peque=F1o Glazier. ------------------- 9. Poetics Archives at the EPC Go to the Electronic Poetry Center and select the "Poetics" link from the opening screen. Follow the links to Poetics Archives. Or set your browser to go directly to . You may browse the Poetics List archives by month and year or search them for specific information. Your interface will allow you to print or download any of these files. Please note that it is possible to toggle between proportional and non-proportional fonts in viewing archived messages; a feature that may be useful to interpret messages reliant on the neat spacing of a proportional font, or that require the "word wrap" feature of same - and useful, too, for aesthetic reasons. To change the display font of an archived message, simply follow the "proportional font" or "non-proportional font" link at the top of the message. -- END OF POETICS LIST WELCOME MSG ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:57:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Clarification clarification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was disconnected from the email server just as my first clarification went out, and I'd assumed it lost; here's the expanded version that I was typing when the first version showed up in the list archive. Please disregard the latter in preference of this one. ca -- Over the past few weeks, I've noticed a number of comments to the effect that the list is no longer moderated. While - given the change of format - I can understand why that might be the general impression, still it's not quite an accurate one. For the sake of clarification, then, I'd like to draw attention to the first section of the updated Welcome Message; I'll post the entire Welcome Message momentarily. Long time subscribers can see that we haven't quite reverted to the policy of four years ago, preferring instead a course that we hope will allow us to maintain a space that is largely free of the vituperative restraints that prompted our initial change to a moderated format. So far, everyone at this end has been more or less pleased with the results. I would, however, at the same stroke like to remind everyone that: 1. For the purposes of keeping the list manageable for everyone, we have established an automated limit of 50 messages per day and 2 messages per subscriber per day. Please keep in mind that messages whose entire content is "I agree" or "I disagree," while well-intended in a conversational mode, do carry us toward the 50 message limit. (There is some flexibility here, as I realize that boring administrative stuff is taking us 3 steps closer to the limit even now.) 2. Our longstanding policy against "flaming" remains in effect. While it is generally a matter of common sense that one not verbally abuse others, for those who need more specific information I have here included the relevant paragraph from section 4 of the Welcome Message. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- 1. About the Poetics List The Poetics List is a moderated list. Due to the increasing number of subscribers, we are no longer able to maintain the open format with which the list began (at under 100 subscribers). All submissions are reviewed by the moderators in keeping with the goals of the list, as articulated in this Welcome Message. The specific form of moderation that we employ is a relatively fluid one: in most cases, messages are reviewed after having been posted to the list, and difficulties resolved on that basis; however, the list moderators may shift with impunity between this and a pre-review mode which calls for all messages to be read and approved before being forwarded to the list. We prefer to avoid this option, as it hampers the spontaneity of discussion that we hope to promote. In addition to these options, the list moderators may place subscribers who find themselves unable to abide by the rules of the list under individual review, in which case only their messages would be received for moderators' approval before being forwarded to the list. For further information, please see number 4, the Cautions section of this Welcome Message. We remain committed to this editorial function as a defining element of the Poetics List. -- 4. Cautions "Flame" messages will not be tolerated on the Poetics List. In this category are included messages gratuitously attacking fellow listees or the list owners, also messages designed to "waste bandwidth" or cause the list to reach its daily limit. These messages are considered offensive and detrimental to list discussion. Offending subscribers will be placed on temporary review (see section 1). Repeat offenders will be removed from the list immediately. Please do not put this policy to test! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:05:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: children's rhyme/game query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoffrey: Yes, very similar, and now I feel it most probably was a kicked-up version of the same, only back then in those environs, with those actors, to a seven-year old, it was an act that pulled me out of all sense of present into a dark space. Incidentally, since you're near Buffalo, you may know Lillydale? Down in Chautauqua County? Best, Gerald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Gatza" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:44 AM Subject: Re: children's rhyme/game query > This sounds like the old parlor game the Minister's Cat > > Same kind of round but with a similar first letter game but it goes > around from A to B to C > > The ministers cat is an able cat > The ministers cat is a bouncy cat > The ministers cat is a cuddly cat > The ministers cat is a droll cat > The ministers cat is an envious cat > The ministers cat is a fat cat > The ministers cat is a ginger cat > The ministers cat is a horrible cat > The ministers cat is an ingenious cat > The ministers cat is a jolly cat > The ministers cat is a kooky cat > > > And so on :-) > > > Best, Geoffrey > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of schwartzgk > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:33 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: children's rhyme/game query > > Kasey, list: > > Part of my childhood I grew up in a small, rural upstate county a few > miles > from a spiritualist community, and I learned this game from the children > who > lived there, who where sons and daughters of spiritualists: > > Satan's Coming > > A letter must be taken, and the termination "ing". Say, for instance, > that P > is chosen. The 1st player says to the second, "Satan's Coming." "How's > he > coming?" says the 2nd. "Playing," rejoins the 1st. The 2nd then says to > the > 3rd, "Satan's Coming." "How?" "Prancing on cloven hooves;" And so the > question and reply go round, through all the words beginning with P and > ending with ing -- piping, pulling, pining, praising, preaching, etc. > Those > who cannot answer the question on the spur of the moment "Will be > collected > by Satan." > > It was a highly charged "game" on many levels, and all these years > later, > it's stayed with me. > --Gerald Schwartz > > > A friend of mine has written me saying that he and his wife had > > > > >started thinking about all those things that get transmitted > > >down from kid to kid, like "ollie ollie oxen free," or choosing > rhymes > > >like "one potato two potato" or "eenie meanie minie moe." We started > to > > >think there might be an interesting project in this (that's code for > > >book). we thought it would be a good idea to preserve some of this > stuff > > >and also to find the roots of it. (Just on a preliminary search, I > found > > >that hide and seek was probably played in ancient Greece.) Does > anybody > > >remember any good games or rhymes or anything from when they were > kids? > > >It could be rope jumping rhymes or even games that kids played in > your > > >area or activities like Bloody Mary, which my older brother taught me > to > > >scare the pants off me. Anything. > > > > So I thought that the list might be a good resource for getting some > > responses, considering the rhyme-aspect of the question. Any ideas > (front > > or back-channel)? > > > > Kasey > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:13:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Scroggins contact info In-Reply-To: <000601c1ef8e$8f338f80$6e01a8c0@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Could someone please backchannel me the current email address for Mark Scroggins? Or Mark, if you're listening, wld you drop me a quick note? Thanks, steve ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:57:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chase Park Subject: Re: summer prose workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dodie, What are the details for the workshop? Money, times, etc... David Horton 510-251-2297 chasepark@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Join the world^Òs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:39:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Scroggins contact info In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Steve, I don't doubt that you'll hear from Mark himself, but just in case: his address is mscroggi@fau.edu. Best, Damian On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:13:54 -0400 Steven Shoemaker wrote: > Could someone please backchannel me the current email address for Mark > Scroggins? Or Mark, if you're listening, wld you drop me a quick note? > > Thanks, > steve <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english/ institute for advanced technology in the humanities university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:49:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Scroggins contact info In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Whoops, I'd meant to backchannel that last message. Mark, if you're listening, sorry to broadcast your whereabouts. Damian On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:39:03 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Damian Judge Rollison wrote: > Steve, > > I don't doubt that you'll hear from Mark himself, but just > in case: his address is mscroggi@fau.edu. > > Best, > Damian > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:13:54 -0400 Steven Shoemaker > wrote: > > > Could someone please backchannel me the current email address for Mark > > Scroggins? Or Mark, if you're listening, wld you drop me a quick note? > > > > Thanks, > > steve > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > damian judge rollison > department of english/ > institute for advanced > technology in the > humanities > university of virginia > djr4r@virginia.edu > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english/ institute for advanced technology in the humanities university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:05:18 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: help sought Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hiya b/c/ please if anybody can help with e-dresses (or preferably addresses for : Johanna Drucker Steve McCaffery Kristin Prevallet ta love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:59:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Clay Subject: Granary Books Newsletter-Premier Issue Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Dear Friends, > >The Granary Newsletter is our way of staying connected to those of >you who buy books, attend Granary events and request information >about us. Feel free to let me know if there is a topic that you >would like to see more or less of, or if you want to be removed from >this list altogether. We anticipate a quarterly mailing. > >Happy Spring! > >Cheers, >Jo Ann Wasserman > > >Granary Books Newsletter >April 2002 >Vol. 1 Issue 1 > >CONTENTS: >*********** > >*New Spring titles from Granary Books >*Upcoming Events: Granary goes West; bill bissett reading in NYC; >Special event for The Vermont Notebook by John Ashbery & Joe >Brainard at the Poetry Project (NYC); Book Expo America (NYC); and a >John Weiners Memorial (Boston). >*News Reports: The celebrations for The Angel Hair Anthology (the >Bay Area); The Anne Waldman Symposium (Ann Arbor) and The College >Art Association Conference (Philadelphia). >*PLUS: Your chance to vote in the 7th Annual Firecracker Alternative >Book Awards! > >************ > >Spring has arrived in New York. Here at Granary we know this not >because after a long hard winter of 60-degree days, we are now >enjoying 60-degree days, but because the New Spring Titles are about >to arrive. Two very different, but perhaps strangely related, books >are coming out this May from Granary-A Girl's Life by Johanna >Drucker and Susan Bee, and A Conversation with David Antin by David >Antin and Charles Bernstein. I say strangely related because during >a recent visit with David Antin, he suggested that perhaps we change >the title of his book to A Boy's Life. Alas, covers had already been >printed. So a bit about the new titles=8A > >A Conversation with David Antin is a four-month interchange between >the poet/essayist Charles Bernstein and artist/poet/critic David >Antin. Ideas on art, poetry, as well as Antin's transition to >site-specific talk performances are discussed. The combination of >the speed of electronic transmission and the rigors of writing as >opposed to talking make this book, in Antin's words, "a cross >between an 18th-and 21st-century text." > >from A Conversation with David Antin: > >Charles: I often get the sense of poetry being disappointing to you, >that the failure of poetry to do something it could be doing better >was a kind of inspiration for writing poetry=8AWhat do you think >poetry should be doing?=8A > >David: I hardly remember how I started to write poetry=8A But I had a >memory of driving one summer with my Uncle Julius, my father's twin >brother, up toward his family's bungalow on Sackett Lake; and as we >were cruising through the green summer landscape, he suddenly burst >into this poem by Pushkin, producing a cascade of cadenced Russian I >barely understood that brought tears to his eyes. For just a moment. >Then he corrected himself, laughed and said, "What nonsense!" Maybe >I remembered this. Maybe I heard of it somewhere else, but I thought >somewhere there must be something called modern poetry, that meant >something to us living now at the end of the Second World War. So I >started to look. > >A Conversation with David Antin (for only $12.95!) presents the >entirety of this dialogue (parts of this text were previously >published in The Review of Contemporary Fiction) between two of the >most important figures on the contemporary poetry scene. The text is >complimented by Album Notes, a collection of photographs from >Antin's life with extended annotations -"shaggy dog stories"- verbal >elaborations of the pictures which, together, add further dimension >to the work of this extraordinary writer and thinker. > >A collaborative graphic melodrama of romance, crime and passion, A >Girl's Life addresses adolescent angst in all of its fashionably >gory details. The snares and pitfalls of contemporary life, with >which all girls must struggle to survive, are here revealed through >darkly comic and fiendishly noir prose, accompanied by lurid collage >and wildly adventurous typography. The publication of A Girl's Life >as a trade edition makes this beautiful, full-color artists' book >available at the amazing price of just $24.95! Here is a little >preview of the book. Now imagine high-color, high-contrast, >high-and-low art, sticker-splattered collages by Susan Bee >accompanying Johanna Drucker's text as you read: > >An aura came up around her frizzy curls. Ethnicity and enlightenment. >A vision >of smashed sugarplums >danced through her head. >A swaggering energy field arose from her delicate flesh. >Becki, her best friend for life, >was in mega trouble. >Ivan's voice came >at her through the lime- >green plastic receiver. >He was a low-life creep >with a touch of evil. >Dawn vanished down the rabbit hole, >Becki had been bit bad by the Ivan bug. >Dawn just knew she could totally save her. > >Rosmarie Waldrop writes, "What happens when two brilliant >avant-garde artists collaborate? A wild carnival of collage, color, >design and lines like 'Decorum had its way with her.' Or: 'Her >outfit ached against my thigh.' Any sentimental image of a girl's >life we might have is overexposed, self-titillated and >deconstructed. It's dazzling. It's funny. It's a riot." > >Also due this spring: Mondrian's flowers, a new limited-edition book >by Alan Loney and Max Gimblett. This elegant book which takes >inspiration from Piet Mondrian's early, somewhat figurative work >unfolds around Gimblett's blazing kaleidoscopic watercolor spreads. >Loney's text is a lyrical and lucid counter meditation to the >detonating images. This book is paradoxically restrained and untamed >- energized, almost electric but, at the same time, governed by >refined language, careful reflection and a balanced, Zen-like >composition, printed letterpress by Inge Bruggeman at Textura >Letterpress in Portland, OR. The images were printed by Ruth Lingen >and the bindings made by Judith Ivry, both in New York City. We >expect to see the first finished copies by the end of spring, 2002. > >Born in Auckland, New Zealand, visual artist Max Gimblett has >exhibited extensively since the early seventies in America, >Australia, Sweden, Japan, Switzerland and Denmark. Gimblett >currently divides his time between New Zealand and New York. >His most recent one-person shows include exhibitions at Queensland >Art Gallery, Brisbane and Ethan Cohen Fine Arts, New York. > >Alan Loney is the author of eight books of poetry; his dear >Mondrian, won the New Zealand Book Awards prize in 1977. For several >years he edited the magazine A Brief Description of the Whole World; >as printer and publisher he has operated Hawk Press, Black Light >Press and The Holloway Press. The Writers Group brought out Reading | >Saying | Making: Selected Essays in 2001. Presently Loney lives in >Australia. Robert Creeley writes "Alan Loney's work has always been >at the cutting edge of New Zealand's place in world literature." > >Upcoming Events > >Granary has been nominated in three categories for The 2002 >Firecracker Alternative Book Awards including the Outstanding >Independent Press Of The Year! Now, we don't want to be accused of >attempting to sway the results, but we do encourage you all to get >out the vote! Go to http://www.firecrackerbooks.org/finoflash.html >and cast your ballot, not for anyone in particular, just don't tell >us if you, let's say, end up choosing McSweeney's as outstanding >press of the year. I mean, come on, that guy has a movie deal! >Speaking of the Firecracker Awards, they are but a part of this >year's Book Expo America (NYC) which will be held at the Jacob >Javits Convention Center on May 3rd, 4th and 5th and Granary will be >in attendance. Stop by our table (we'll be in the D.A.P./Distributed >Art Publishers compound at booth number 4325) if you happen to find >yourself in the neighborhood and get your brand-spanking-new Granary >Books button. In spring's new been-there-done-that colors (black and >white) it is the perfect addition to any ensemble. We have produced >a catalog of all of our trade publications (new, forthcoming & >recent) for the event and it is available as a PDF file. Click here >to access the catalog: http://www.granarybooks.com/trade.html > >NOTE: the text of the catalog is optimized for printing rather than >for the screen - for an optimal reading experience we advise >printing the catalog. > >Granary is going West! (Just for a visit.) On April 16th Steve Clay >will head out to California to show off some of the new Granary >Books, meet with poets and friends and enjoy the breakfast special >at our unofficial West Coast offices (Swinger's coffee shop in Los >Angeles). He sure is looking forward to those lighter-than-air >pancakes! Steve will be in San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego >so if you want to say hi, look at some fabulous books or meet for >one hell of a bottomless cup of coffee, e-mail him at >sclay@granarybooks.com. > >On April 24th there will a special benefit at The Poetry Project at >St. Mark's Church celebrating Granary's re-publication of The >Vermont Notebook by John Ashbery and Joe Brainard. The event will >feature readings from The Vermont Notebook by Ashbery, Anselm >Berrigan, and Elaine Equi accompanied by slide projections of Joe >Brainard's drawings. First published in 1975, The Vermont Notebook >features 47 prose pieces by John Ashbery, each paired with a >Brainard drawing. John Yau writes, "This is John Ashbery at his >wacky best, from long lists that seem to make some sense, to short >lists that are befuddling and beguiling, to made-up diary entries. >Perhaps it's everyone's diary that Ashbery has written, and no >one's. Joe Brainard's silhouetted Americana becomes the perfect >complement." > >The Poetry Project will be offering a signed, limited-edition >broadside to commemorate The Vermont Notebook celebration, >co-published with Granary. Measuring 20" x 15" and printed in a >letterpress edition, the broadside will sell for $75 until May 1st, >$100 thereafter. Sales from the edition will benefit the Poetry >Project. The Poetry Project is also selling special tickets, which >include reserved seating at the event, a copy of the broadside and >the book as well as after-reading refreshments, for $100. General >admission is $7. Please contact the Project directly for more >information at 212-674-0910. > >bill bissett, author, auteur and travelling generous spirit returns >to New York City from the Caribou to read in the Segue Series at >Double Happiness on May 25th with Pat Reed. bill is the author of >numerous books of poetry including the limited-edition, handpainted >Lunaria, published by Granary in 2001. > >Granary was saddened by the sudden death of poet John Wieners on >March 1st 2002. In 2000 Pressed Wafer produced a limited-edition >broadside series edited by William Corbett, Michael Gizzi and Joseph >Torra intended to endow the first annual Pressed Wafer Lifetime >Achievement Award. Last year, the editors presented this award to >John Wieners with all proceeds from the sale of the broadsides going >to assist the poet. Following the success of that venture, Granary >Books and Pressed Wafer published a trade edition anthology The >Blind See Only This World: Poems for John Wieners. > >A Memorial for John Wieners will be held on May 2nd at 7 pm at The >Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 770 Mass. Ave, Room 6120, >Cambridge, MA. Over 30 poets, writers, musicians and friends >including William Corbett, Anne Waldman, Ed Sanders, Gerrit Lansing, >Ed Barrett, Lewis Warsh, Damon Krukowski & Naomi Yang, Simon Pettet, >James Dunn and Charles Shiveley will gather to celebrate Wiener's >life and work. A chapbook, Kidnap Notes Now, comprised of material >culled from Weiners's notebooks will be given out at the memorial >and will be available from Pressed Wafer after that date. If you >have any questions about the book or the memorial, please call >Pressed Wafer at 617-266-5466. > > >News > >Granary would like to thank Lewis Warsh and Anne Waldman for >organizing and emceeing Angel Hair Anthology readings in the Bay >Area on March 7th and 8th. Both events were terrific evenings by all >accounts, providing an opportunity for contributors to get together >and share work with each other and a new generation of Angel Hair >fans. Special thanks to Micah Ballard and Owen Hill for hosting the >events at, respectively, the New College of California and Moe's >Books. Both venues were gracious hosts and, in addition, Micah was >generous enough to organize a lovely reception at the reading on the >7th. Thanks to all the readers! > >In February Granary Books participated in the annual College Art >Association's four-day annual conference which included panel >discussions, talks and workshops. Steve Clay spoke as part of the >panel "Artists as Writers/Writers as Artists" along with Susan >Viguers, Warren Lehrer, Kathy Walkup, Karen Schiff and chair >Patricia Smith. The panel was well attended (in spite of the 9:00 am >start time on Saturday morning!). All of the presentations were >terrific. Steve's talk focused on the uniqueness of the book as the >form for specific content. His point was well-illustrated when >technical glitches delayed those participants who had slides to show >and Steve stepped up to the plate with the actual artifacts - books >by bill bissett, Johanna Drucker, and several others. As he began >his talk and went to open bill's Lunaria, Steve paused and said, >"Let me just fire this baby up. Yes, I think it is going to work," >and he pretty much had the crowd right then and there. The slide >projector was ultimately operational and the work that the other >participants brought was wonderful to see and illustrated the talks >gracefully. > >Granary also took part in the Symposium "make-up on empty space: a >celebration of Anne Waldman" at the University of Michigan, Ann >Arbor, March 13th-15th. Steve participated in a panel "Publishing >and the Small Press Scene" with Allan Kornblum, Ken Mikolowski and >moderator Bill Morgan. Other participants in the three-day >conference included: Anne Waldman, Andrei Codrescu, Laura Bardwell, >Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, David Cope, Maria Damon, Rachel Blau >Duplessis, Alan Gilbert, Anselm Hollo, Joanne Kyger, Akilah Oliver, >Jena Osman, Ron Padgett, Kristin Prevallet, Eleni Sikelianos, >Heather Thomas, Lorenzo Thomas and Diane Wakoski. By all accounts it >was an amazing series of events, emphasizing the tremendous range of >activities for which Anne has been a driving force over the past 35 >years. Anne's commitment to developing, nurturing and establishing >community was more evident than ever. Maria Damon's talk, which >expanded Anne's idea of "making the world safe for poetry" into >"making the world safe through poetry" summed up Waldman's >remarkable endeavors perfectly. As Jane Magazine wrote in a recent >review of The Angel Hair Anthology (edited by Waldman and Lewis >Warsh, Granary Books 2001), "Any book in which one of the editors >(Anne) reminisces about an inspirational acid trip gets my >attention. And it gets better. This anthology of Angel Hair =8A >includes the funny/surreal/raunchy writings of Jim Carroll, Robert >Creeley and Barbara Guest. Anne, by the way, started the Jack >Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at Naropa University in >Boulder, CO, with Allen Ginsberg in the '70s. I want to be like her >when I grow up." > >************ > >Finally, I will close-out this first issue of our newsletter with a >quote from a review of MoMA's "The Russian Avant-Garde Book, >1910-1934" by Holland Cotter (forwarded to Granary by Charles >Bernstein): > > "More traditional collaboration between artists and poets >has, of course, a long rich Modernist history, which is still very >much alive, though it receives scant attention. Theoretically, a >show like, "The Russian Avant Garde Book" is the perfect opportunity >to position this continuing and changing relationship center stage, >to bring contemporary poets and word-artists of all kinds into the >art museum, though the Modern has made no such plans. > > Maybe the museum-and this seems to be true of most mainstream >institutions-sees poetry as lying outside its purview, or simply >beside the point of art. But poetry is built into the Modern's >history. Frank O'Hara was a curator there. Chances are he used to >walk through the second-floor galleries where the Russian books are >now installed, writing poems in his head. So maybe the 'new,' >expanded Modern, which has already demonstrated a healthy interest >in the work of young artists, will do something to sustain this >embracing, mutitasking cultural spirit. I hope so. Otherwise, it may >miss out on a wave of the future today." > >-from "Change the World and Tweak the Bourgeoisie" by Holland >Cotter, The New York Times, March 29, 2002. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jo Ann Wasserman Granary Books 307 Seventh Ave. #1401 (@28th Street) New York, NY 10001 tel: 212 337 9979 fax: 212 337 9774 www.granarybooks.com -- Steve Clay Granary Books, Inc. 307 Seventh Ave #1401 NY NY 10001 212 337 9979 fax 212 337 9774 www.granarybooks.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:49:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: Canessa Park Reading 5/7/02 Anderson & Conoley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Canessa Park Reading Series 708 Montgomery St. @ Columbus San Francisco CA Tuesday Night May 7th 2002 Beth Anderson & Gillian Conoley Beth Anderson is the author of The Habitable World, which was published in 2001 by Instance Press and was a 2002 finalist for the Poetry Society of America’s Norma Farber First Book Award. Her poems have recently appeared or are forthcoming in New American Writing, The Germ, Barrow Street, and other journals and in An Anthology of New (American) Poets (Talisman House). She lives in Richmond, VA, and is one of the editors of Subpress, a cooperative small press. Gillian Conoley's collections of poetry include _Beckon_, _Tall Stranger_,nominated for the National Book Critcs' Circle Award: _Some Gangster Pain_; and _Woman Speaking Inside Film Noir_. Winner of a Pushcart Prize and included in _Best American Poetry_, she is Poet-in-Residence and Associate Professor at Sonoma State U, where she is founder and editor of _Volt_. Born in Taylor, Texas, she makes her home in the SFBay Area with her husband, the novelist Domenic Stansberry, and their young daughter. Hope to see you there, Avery E. D. Burns Please Direct Inquiries and Correspondence to P.O. Box 640531 San Francisco CA 94164 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:52:26 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: a vile republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron. And you buy into all that propaganda ? The US has already got weapons of mass destruction, and people thoughout the world are and have died from the testing of American (and British and other) nuclear weapons: and thousand, hundreds of thousands have died as a result of US-backed so-called counter-terrorism. I saw an ex CIA chief boasting about this on the BBC Or maybe that was propaganda...well in a sense it was as this means the agent/boss can hide other "evils"...He said it was neccessary to eliminate communism in South America. There is as much propaganda though coming from so-called neutral British sources who are in the pay of the right wing as there s from Saddam Hussein who seems to me to be a good guy. The US is right now threatening to use preemtive nuclear strikes: that makes the US very close to the Nazis. Certainly the US funds the Israeli Nazi State to the tune of about US$5 billion a year. Hitler, to gain sympathy, or energise those in doubt, used to create propaganda films showing Jews as rats: he also dressed up Poles in German uniform, shot them, and claimed that Germany had been attacked: well technology has gone ahead and nowdays they can create a Bin Laden and dub in what is required, manufacture films of children, blow up a couple of buildings in NY for practice: you can be assured that the anti-moslems and anti-communists are all well paid: some in fat positions in your American, and in British, and other Universities. Beware of the bullshit factor. I dont feel threatenned by any Arab countries or Arab people or Palestinians or other: but I'm sure as hell scared for the world by the United States: the most corrupt, evil, terroristic, fascist nation on the earth. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Belz" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:41 AM Subject: a vile republic Aha, gentle list reader-- you thought the subject line referred to the U.S. Ironically enough, it refers to Iraq. Here is an interesting article from the Observer. + + + + + + + Inside a vile republic No one should be in any doubt about Saddam's depraved intentions Henry McDonald Sunday April 28, 2002 The Observer Children aged between five and 10 are tortured and beaten. Their screams and cries are recorded on video. The horrific images are then shown to other men. But this is no sick, paedophile, child-abusing fantasy captured on camera. According to one man who was forced to watch these vile scenes, the terror inflicted on these tiny victims was motivated principally for cold-hearted political reasons. Because whatever revolting pleasure was obtained by the torturers and the filmcrew alike, the main purpose of this recorded sadism was to brutalise, terrorise and wear down potential enemies and traitors. This repulsive testimony of child torture as psychological warfare comes via a defector from the sinister Iraqi Mukhabarat or intelligence service and demonstrates the depravity of a regime objectively defended by Irish and other Western peaceniks. The defector's claims appear in the current edition of Vanity Fair, compiled by David Rose. Never before has an article provoked such a feeling of disgust. For Rose's account of the extent to which Saddam Hussein's dictatorship will go to terrify its own servants and agents makes the flesh crawl. More disturbing still is the defector's allegations about the lengths the Ba'athist élite have gone in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction. For example, the former Iraqi agent claims he travelled to Africa to buy highly toxic 'radioactive material with which to build a dirty radiological bomb' that kills thousands slowly through radioactive pollution and cancers. He also outlines how Saddam's tyranny trains and finances Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic fundamentalist movement. According to the defector, it was Iraq which taught Hamas how to make bombs. Moreover, he says that Iraq has developed a new missile system to hit Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt and Iran as well, of course, as Israel. Rose's courageous and thoroughly researched report will make uncomfortable reading for those on the Western Left most vociferously opposed to any United States-led attack on Iraq. Because if the defector is telling the truth (his evidence is supported by Charles Duelfer, the former deputy head of UNSCOM, the mission aimed at overseeing the destruction of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction), then there are serious challenges for the West and hard questions for Western peace groups. For Western governments, especially those EU nations, including Ireland, which still adopt an ostrich-like approach to Iraq's nuclear ambitions, the dilemma will not disappear - how to stop Saddam getting the bomb. Every pacific avenue has been tried since the second Gulf War, from diplomacy to sanctions, and yet the Baghdad dictatorship, according to former agents such as the one who spoke to Rose, continues to search for the technology and raw material needed to build nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. The defector outlines how the regime evades sanctions through a series of front companies in the Middle East and Europe to import material into Iraq that forms the basis of 'dirty bio-bombs' that can kill tens of thousands. His evidence suggests that even targeted smart sanctions may not prevent the acquisition of these weapons. The United States and the EU are then left with only one other option - military intervention. Some policy-makers express concern that an outright military assault on Saddam and the Ba'ath will set the entire Middle East ablaze. They argue that in an atmosphere of seething Arab anger over the Israeli incursions into Palestinian territory, invading Iraq would push the region over the edge into widespread, possibly global, conflict. This thesis, however, entirely misses the point of Saddam's project to build a nuclear, chemical and/or bio-bomb. Iraq's acquisition of weapons of mass destruction is designed precisely to escalate the Arab-Israeli conflict into a nuclear confrontation. Young Arabs such as the polite Palestinian student I met last Thursday evening in Queen's University Belfast look forward to the day of the Arab bomb. And their goal, according to him, regardless of the rhetoric about two-state solutions from the PLO's apologists in the West, is the complete destruction of the state of Israel, if necessary through the use of, or threatened use of, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. The trouble with Western peace groups and their leftist support base is that they have held a starry-eyed or, in the case of the Irish Left, a Starry-Plough-eyed view of the Third World, especially those states that style themselves 'anti-imperialist'. What they surely cannot ignore any longer is the existence of a regime that endangers the stability not only of the Middle East but perhaps the planet itself and which will torture and murder even its own children in order to shore up Saddam's Republic of Fear. henry.mcdonald@observer.co.uk http://www.observer.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,706471,00.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:04:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan E Minton Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE {The Zombie Avant-Garde} / Jullich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Of course I'll have to disagree with Jeffrey's diagnosis, at least in the particular context of Word/For Word. I wouldn't (and won't) use the term avant-garde to describe its content, partly to avoid the obvious nest of vipers such a tricky term would create for a journal, and partly because it wouldn't at all be an accurate or subtle term in that it would elide too many overtly differing concerns, practices, and processes at work in the first issue. Poets write for their peers, for their self, out of an impulse, or intellect, or whatever. If it's received as such then it's a measure of living. I'm recalling the last bit of John Cage's "The Future of Music" in which, as he's surely considering not only the future of "experimental" (another tricky term) music but its supposed demise, he says "People frequently ask me what my definition of music is. This is it. It is work. That is my conclusion." Plenty of folks are busily, and happily, at work, perhaps too much so to worry about its death. I'm wondering, however, if Jeffrey might be implying the death of poetry, and not only that of the avant-garde? -- Jonathan Minton co-editor, Word/For Word --------------------------------------------------------- "I have nothing to say / and I am saying it / and that is poetry / as I needed it" --John Cage ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:04:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: a vile republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit propaganda counters propaganda...or bullshit counters bullshit...whichever you prefer... ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 6:52 PM Subject: Re: a vile republic > Aaron. And you buy into all that propaganda ? The US has already got > weapons of mass destruction, and people thoughout the world are and have > died from the testing of American (and British and other) nuclear weapons: > and thousand, hundreds of thousands have died as a result of US-backed > so-called counter-terrorism. I saw an ex CIA chief boasting about this on > the BBC Or maybe that was propaganda...well in a sense it was as this means > the agent/boss can hide other "evils"...He said it was neccessary to > eliminate communism in South America. There is as much propaganda though > coming from so-called neutral British sources who are in the pay of the > right wing as there s from Saddam Hussein who seems to me to be a good guy. > The US is right now threatening to use preemtive nuclear strikes: that > makes the US very close to the Nazis. Certainly the US funds the Israeli > Nazi State to the tune of about US$5 billion a year. > Hitler, to gain sympathy, or energise those in doubt, used to create > propaganda films showing Jews as rats: he also dressed up Poles in German > uniform, shot them, and claimed that Germany had been attacked: well > technology has gone ahead and nowdays they can create a Bin Laden and dub in > what is required, manufacture films of children, blow up a couple of > buildings in NY for practice: you can be assured that the anti-moslems and > anti-communists are all well paid: some in fat positions in your American, > and in British, and other Universities. > Beware of the bullshit factor. I dont feel threatenned by any Arab > countries or Arab people or Palestinians or other: but I'm sure as hell > scared for the world by the United States: the most corrupt, evil, > terroristic, fascist nation on the earth. Richard. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aaron Belz" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:41 AM > Subject: a vile republic > > > Aha, gentle list reader-- you thought the subject line referred to the U.S. > Ironically enough, it refers to Iraq. Here is an interesting article from > the Observer. > > > + + + + + + + > > > Inside a vile republic > > No one should be in any doubt about Saddam's depraved intentions > > Henry McDonald > Sunday April 28, 2002 > The Observer > > Children aged between five and 10 are tortured and beaten. Their screams and > cries are recorded on video. The horrific images are then shown to other > men. > > But this is no sick, paedophile, child-abusing fantasy captured on camera. > According to one man who was forced to watch these vile scenes, the terror > inflicted on these tiny victims was motivated principally for cold-hearted > political reasons. Because whatever revolting pleasure was obtained by the > torturers and the filmcrew alike, the main purpose of this recorded sadism > was to brutalise, terrorise and wear down potential enemies and traitors. > > This repulsive testimony of child torture as psychological warfare comes via > a defector from the sinister Iraqi Mukhabarat or intelligence service and > demonstrates the depravity of a regime objectively defended by Irish and > other Western peaceniks. > > The defector's claims appear in the current edition of Vanity Fair, compiled > by David Rose. Never before has an article provoked such a feeling of > disgust. For Rose's account of the extent to which Saddam Hussein's > dictatorship will go to terrify its own servants and agents makes the flesh > crawl. More disturbing still is the defector's allegations about the lengths > the Ba'athist élite have gone in order to acquire weapons of mass > destruction. > > For example, the former Iraqi agent claims he travelled to Africa to buy > highly toxic 'radioactive material with which to build a dirty radiological > bomb' that kills thousands slowly through radioactive pollution and cancers. > > He also outlines how Saddam's tyranny trains and finances Hamas, the > Palestinian Islamic fundamentalist movement. According to the defector, it > was Iraq which taught Hamas how to make bombs. Moreover, he says that Iraq > has developed a new missile system to hit Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt and > Iran as well, of course, as Israel. > > Rose's courageous and thoroughly researched report will make uncomfortable > reading for those on the Western Left most vociferously opposed to any > United States-led attack on Iraq. Because if the defector is telling the > truth (his evidence is supported by Charles Duelfer, the former deputy head > of UNSCOM, the mission aimed at overseeing the destruction of Saddam's > weapons of mass destruction), then there are serious challenges for the West > and hard questions for Western peace groups. > > For Western governments, especially those EU nations, including Ireland, > which still adopt an ostrich-like approach to Iraq's nuclear ambitions, the > dilemma will not disappear - how to stop Saddam getting the bomb. > > Every pacific avenue has been tried since the second Gulf War, from > diplomacy to sanctions, and yet the Baghdad dictatorship, according to > former agents such as the one who spoke to Rose, continues to search for the > technology and raw material needed to build nuclear, biological and chemical > weapons. > > The defector outlines how the regime evades sanctions through a series of > front companies in the Middle East and Europe to import material into Iraq > that forms the basis of 'dirty bio-bombs' that can kill tens of thousands. > His evidence suggests that even targeted smart sanctions may not prevent the > acquisition of these weapons. The United States and the EU are then left > with only one other option - military intervention. > > Some policy-makers express concern that an outright military assault on > Saddam and the Ba'ath will set the entire Middle East ablaze. They argue > that in an atmosphere of seething Arab anger over the Israeli incursions > into Palestinian territory, invading Iraq would push the region over the > edge into widespread, possibly global, conflict. > > This thesis, however, entirely misses the point of Saddam's project to build > a nuclear, chemical and/or bio-bomb. Iraq's acquisition of weapons of mass > destruction is designed precisely to escalate the Arab-Israeli conflict into > a nuclear confrontation. Young Arabs such as the polite Palestinian student > I met last Thursday evening in Queen's University Belfast look forward to > the day of the Arab bomb. And their goal, according to him, regardless of > the rhetoric about two-state solutions from the PLO's apologists in the > West, is the complete destruction of the state of Israel, if necessary > through the use of, or threatened use of, chemical, biological and nuclear > weapons. > > The trouble with Western peace groups and their leftist support base is that > they have held a starry-eyed or, in the case of the Irish Left, a > Starry-Plough-eyed view of the Third World, especially those states that > style themselves 'anti-imperialist'. What they surely cannot ignore any > longer is the existence of a regime that endangers the stability not only of > the Middle East but perhaps the planet itself and which will torture and > murder even its own children in order to shore up Saddam's Republic of Fear. > > henry.mcdonald@observer.co.uk > > > > http://www.observer.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,706471,00.html > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:59:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: a vile republic In-Reply-To: <002001c1efd0$88d549c0$0f6e36d2@01397384> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > the United States: the most corrupt, evil, > terroristic, fascist nation on the earth. Richard. Well, Richard-- I didn't know what to make of the article I posted. I hadn't read any specific stories of Iraq except in the Atlantic (was it? or New Yorker?) a tale of Saddam Hussein's lechery told by a woman who was coerced to have sex with him. I hope my posting of it didn't imply agreement with a U.S. nuclear strike (hadn't heard that one). That said, I don't really agree with the above description of the U.S. Here's to healthier skepticism, -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:58:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: World Poetical Forum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Douglas Carrara wrote: > Dear Poets, > > We are pleased to invite poets througout the world to take part > in the World Poetical Forum, created on February 4, 2002. This meeting > will be held during the World Social Forum, in Porto Alegre, Brazil. > > We intend to bring together into an open Internet site every poet > opposing the neo-liberalism policy. We look for a world where the > words could transmit love and friendship among all people; where > business is neither only leisure nor a life denial. A world without > wars will always be possible, if men so wish and apply their efforts > toward goodness and happiness, as poetry can do. > > The page is available in http://www.forumpoeticomundial.hpg.com.br > > Interested poets can adhere to the Forum by filling out the form > and sending poems for publication in the page. > > The World Poetical Forum intends to strength the poets´ voice and > define an unique set of claims, in order to enlarge influence in > social environment, toward a better and dignified way of living. > > We have already set some preliminary points, which should be > enhanced after discussion in the Forum. > > Recovering Realm List > > - Pursue poets´ professionalization; > > - plead for cultural rooms in society (either physical or not), where > poetry and poets could be present; > > - improve quality in poetry learning, poetic plays and declamatory > performances; > > - provide poetry professional courses; > > - upraise the value of poet work in society; > > Therefore, we kindly ask poets to spread this Call to other poets > and to collaborate with suggestions, criticism and new ideas: "Only > the united teeth can gnaw the 'rapadura' sugar.", Juarez Ventura. > > We hope that by next Forum to be held in Porto Alegre, Brazil, in > 2003, we have an appropriate place for lectures, recitations, > workshops, meetings and discussions regarding poetry and poets in the > world. > > Poeticals Greetings > GERMANY > SIGLINDE KALLNBACH http://www.a.performancelife.com (COLOGNE) > ARGENTINE > AZUL SEOANE azulydericota@hotmail.com (LA PLATA) > > DANIEL ACOSTA http://www.shbbs.com.ar/pages/acosta (BUENOS AIRES) > > FLORENCIA ABBATE fabbate24@yahoo.com.ar (BUENOS AIRES) > > SUSANA WILDNER TORRES susanawt@yahoo.com.ar (BUENOS AIRES) > > BELGIUM > > VERMEULEN GUIDO guido.vermeulen@easynet.be (BRUSSELS) > > BRAZIL > > ALINE ALCANTARA alcantaraline@hotmail.com (UBERLÂNDIA (MG) - BRAZIL) > > ALVACIR SILVA FERNANDES (CURITIBA (PR) - BRAZIL) > > ALVAREZ http://www.enter-net.com.br/linealvarez (PORTO VELHO - RO) > > AMADOR RIBEIRO NETO amador.ribeiro@uol.com.br (JOÃO PESSOA (PB) - > BRAZIL) > > AMIR BRITO CADOR (CAMPINAS (SP) - BRAZIL) > > ANA EMILIA CULLEN VAZ anaemiliacullen@bol.com.br (BRASÍLIA (DF) - > BRAZIL) > > ANA LUCIA DAL PIZZOL ana.pizzol@bol.com.br (GASPAR (SC) - BRAZIL) > > ANGELA NASSIM (LYNN) > http://www.blindalvorada.hpg.ig.com.br/membros/Lynn/index.htm > (PIRACICABA SP) > > ANGELO MADSON angelomadson@bol.com.br (BELÉM (PA) - BRAZIL) > > CARLOS ANDRE BERTINI HERMES (PORTO ALEGRE (RS) - BRAZIL) > > CARLOS FIGUEIREDO (ITAOBIM (MG) - BRAZIL) > > CAUÊ NASCIMENTO (CANOAS (RS) - BRAZIL) > > CESAR AUGUSTO MEDEIROS LUCCHESI cesarluc@zipmail.com.br (SÃO PAULO > (SP) - BRAZIL) > > CLAUDIA D´OREY doreyclaudia@hotmail.com (RIO (RJ) - BRAZIL) > > CRIS PASSINATO crispassinato@infolink.com.br (RIO RJ) > > DALTON LUIZ GANDIN poiese@uol.com.br (CAMBÉ (PR ) - BRAZIL) > > DAMA DA NOITE damadanoite@damadanoite.adm.br (CURITIBA) > > DOUGLAS CARRARA dcarrara@alternex.com.br (RIO DE JANEIRO) > > EDSON DE SOUZA CUNHA xescx@hotmail.com > > EDUARDO RONDINO eduardorondino@ig.com.br > > FELIPE MORENO BRAZÃO TEIXEIRA analba@uol.com.br (NATAL (RN) - BRAZIL) > > FRED MAIA fredmaia@terra.com.br (SÃO PAULO (SP) - BRAZIL) > > GLEISE NANA gleisenana@bol.com.br (RIO DE JANEIRO (RJ) - BRAZIL) > > GUINER guinerallgayer@hotmail.com > > GUSTAVO PEDREIRA guspedreira@uol.com.br (RIBEIRÃO PRETO (SP) - > BRAZIL) > > HELDER GUEDES MEIRA heldermg@uol.com.br (TEÓFILO OTONI (MG) - BRAZIL) > > JESUS EUGENIO DE LUCA CARDOSO eugehnio@hotmail.com (CAMPO GRANDE (MS) > -BRAZIL) > > JOSE CARLOS DE SOUZA JUNIOR jcsjr@starmedia.com.br (MOSSORÓ (RN) - > BRAZIL) > > JOSE DE BARROS PINTO FILHO jose.barros@ige.unicamp.br (CAMPINAS (SP) > - BRAZIL) > > KEPPLER rkeppler@osite.com.br (SÃO PAULO) > > LAU SIQUEIRA lausiqueira@hotmail.com (JOÃO PESSOA (PB) > > LEONARDO BIZARRO leonardobizarro@bol.com.br (GRAVATAÍ (RS)) > > LINDA ROSA lesminha@bol.com.br (SÃO CAETANO DO SUL (SP) > > MARCELO LIMA (RIBEIRÃO PRETO (SP) > > MARCIO PT marciopt@conectsul.com.br > > MARILENE CAON PIERUCCINI emanuele@brturbo.com (CAXIAS DO SUL RS) > > MARIO PIRATA mar.rio@zaz.com.br (PORTO ALEGRE (RS) > > MONICA LOYOLA STIVAL monicastival@hotmail.com > > NELI GERMANO neliger@ig.com.br (PORTO ALEGRE (RS) > > OSI LUIZ (O ELO REFLEXISTA) 5198429427@aviso.net.br > > PAULO RICARDO BARROS DO NASCIMENTO rasprbn@zipmail.com.br (BRASÍLIA > (DF) > > PEDRO FLORES pedrinho87@bol.com.br (BRASILIA (DF) > > PEDRO KRIGUER CARLOS (VOTORANTIM (SP) > > PEDRO MARODIN pedromarodin@buquedeflores.com.br (PORTO ALEGRE (RS) > > RAFAEL N. VARGAS rafaelpoeta@terra.com.br (BRUSQUE (SC) > > RICARDO ALFAYA ricardoalfaya@aol.com (RIO DE JANEIRO) > > ROBERTA MARTINS robertasmartins@hotmail.com (BRASILIA (DF) > > TENINI tenini@terra.com.br (PORTO ALEGRE (RS) > > THIAGO BAZZAN (SAPUCAIA DO SUL (RS) > > THOMAS ANTONIO (GAMA (DF) > > VASCO BELINE ( SÃO PAULO (SP) > > VALTER GURU valtguru@terra.com.br (CAMPO BOM (RS) > > VERONICA PALMIRA SALME DE ARAGAO verolit@zipmail.com.br (RIO (RJ) > > ZÉ DO RIO joseoliveiraluiz@hotmail.com (CAXIAS DO SUL (RS) > > ZÉ GAUCHO (EVERALDO) everpi@bol.com.br > > CANADA > > JOSE ADOLFO SEGURA http://www.cam.org/~segura/index.html (MONTREAL) > > LA TOAN VINH latoanvinh_ok@yahoo.ca (MONTREAL) > > CHILE > > MARCELO OLIVARES blusban@yahoo.com (SANTIAGO ) > > SPAIN > > MONTSE http://es.geocities.com/montsefornos/Matriz-Grupal.html > (BARCELONA) > > POESUR http://www.poesia-sur.com (VALENCIA) > > RODOLFO FRANCO rodolfofranco22@hotmail.com (MERIDA) > > TXALO TOLOZA-FERNANDEZ http://anilina.virtualave.net (BARCELONA) > > UNITED STATES > > mIEKAL aND http://cla.umn.edu/joglars (LA FARGE) > > ITALIAN > > SARENCO sarenco@hotmail.com > > JAPAN > > JESSE GLASS ahadada@gol.com (URAYASU-SHI) > > MEXICO > > HUMBERTO ACEVEDO dedalo@prodigy.net.mx (MEXICO) > > PORTUGAL > > AMÉLIA PINTO PAIS amelia.pais@netcabo.pt (LEIRIA) > > EMERENCIANO emerenciano@clix.pt (PORTO) > > JULIA OLIVEIRA julia-oliveira@netcabo.pt (PORTO) > > URUGUAY > > CLEMENTE PADÍN clepadin@adinet.com.uy (MONTEVIDEU ) > > GRACEE "GLOOMY" MARTY > http://communities.msn.com.mx/encuentrointernacionalvirtualdepoesia > (MONTEVIDEU ) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:08:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: This week: Wieners Memorial at MIT, Corbett reads in Brookline Comments: cc: canwehaveourballback@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed An Evening of Poetry and Song remembering the poet John Wieners Thursday May 2, 2002 7:00 PM Room 6-120 77 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, MA Free and open to the public Sponsored by the MIT Program in Writing and Humanistic Studies 617 253 7894 Readers and performers include: Caitie Barrett Ed Barrett Jim Behrle Daniel Bouchard William Corbett Mike County Damon & Naomi Jim Dunn Brian Foye Michael Franco Michael Gizzi Peter Gizzi Fanny Howe Jack Kimball John Landry Gerrit Lansing Dasha Lymar Gail Mazur Askold Melnyczuk John Mulrooney Jawn P. Simon Pettet Patricia Pruitt Stephen Prygoda Ed Sanders Christopher Sawyer-Laucanno Charley Shiveley Joseph Torra Anne Waldman Lewis Warsh Carol Weston Elizabeth Willis and Geoffrey Young AND~ Saturday 5/4 at 3 PM Bill Corbett reads at Matt Murphy's Pub 14 Harvard St. Brookline Village 617 232 0188 sponsored by Albatross Books take The Green Line "D" to Brookline Village _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:42:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Re: a vile republic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, I remember participating in a lot of debates like this one during the 80s trying (failing) to explain to my American friends why it was a Bad Mistake for the Americans and their CIA to be helping Saddam (money and weapons) wage war against the Iraani people--one of the things I tried to explain to them (why don't Americans ever get any real news in the media?) was that Saddam Hussain was using the American money not just to wage war on Khomeini (did you ever think you'd miss Khomeini?) but to wage war against his own people, including the ethnic and religious minorities. none that logic was good enough for my friends nor for murderous, Machivellian American presidents of that decade. later it was the same warnings from the Shi'a muslim community (we're smart, we Shi'as) about funding the reactionary Mujahedeen/Taliban--who incidently, also with CIA money, helped to train that other troublesome group in the Philipines... I mean, Americans just EXCEL at creating bad situations that come back and bite them in the ass... a time to sow, a time to reap-- the fact that Saddam, bin Laden, the Shah of Iran, Noriega, etc., etc., are butchers and brutes was never new to anyone who had to live under their rule...it was American convenience that required their ascension to power, American convenience that required (requires?) their fall. that's the vile part. ===== "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:51:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Re: a vile republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Whether or not Saddam is the butcher the US and its allies portray him as, I= =20 don't know. I do know that US propaganda campaigns routinely demonize world= =20 leaders they are about to assassinate or depose -- witness, for example, the= =20 slanted reporting by US media sources on Chavez in Venezuela. But what I do= =20 know is that the continuing 'sanctions' being enforced on Iraq by the US and= =20 its allies has cost, and are continuing to cost the lives of hundreds of=20 thousands of Iraqi children. This fact is not in dispute. Consider, for=20 example, the following exchange: In an interview with Leslie Stahl of CBS on May 11, 1996, U.S. Secretary of=20 State Madeline Albright was asked whether the over half a million children=20 killed by the sanctions were "worth it." Her response was: "It=E2=80=99s a h= ard=20 choice, but I think, we, think, it=E2=80=99s worth it." The question is, worth it for whom? And now the US and it allies have=20 racheted up the hate propaganda as an apparent prelude for a military assaul= t=20 on Iraq. By accusing Saddam of unspeakable acts, the US and it allies are=20 prepared to unleash their own unspeakable acts on the Iraqis. The irony of=20 this is not lost on everyone, especially those who realize that the US and i= t=20 allies don't give a rat's ass about unspeakable acts, as their support for=20 various perpetrators of unspeakable acts around the world attests to. What=20 the US and its allies are interested in, are political and --most importantl= y=20 -- economic hegemony, especially the economic hegemony of oil. While the=20 continental US contains only 3% of the world's known oil reserves, the Globa= l=20 US has a much greater share, and evidently wants much more. It's important=20 to understand that there is no loss of life that is too great in adding to=20 that share. What's a few million more dead Iraqi children compared to the=20 riches that accrue from the control of the production and pricing of the oil= =20 reserves in the Middle East? What is a democratic government in Venezuela,=20 et al., compared to control of their oil reserves? Perhaps one should=20 reflect on these points before sending out mindless propaganda designed to=20 justify once again the seemingly endless war on the innocents of the world. joe brennan In a message dated 04/29/2002 10:19:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 aaron@BELZ.NET writes: > Aha, gentle list reader-- you thought the subject line referred to the U.S= . > Ironically enough, it refers to Iraq. Here is an interesting article from > the Observer. >=20 >=20 > + + + + + + + >=20 >=20 > Inside a vile republic >=20 > No one should be in any doubt about Saddam's depraved intentions >=20 > Henry McDonald > Sunday April 28, 2002 > The Observer=20 >=20 > Children aged between five and 10 are tortured and beaten. Their screams=20 > and > cries are recorded on video. The horrific images are then shown to other > men.=20 >=20 > But this is no sick, paedophile, child-abusing fantasy captured on camera. > According to one man who was forced to watch these vile scenes, the terror > inflicted on these tiny victims was motivated principally for cold-hearted > political reasons. Because whatever revolting pleasure was obtained by the > torturers and the filmcrew alike, the main purpose of this recorded sadism > was to brutalise, terrorise and wear down potential enemies and traitors. >=20 > This repulsive testimony of child torture as psychological warfare comes=20 > via > a defector from the sinister Iraqi Mukhabarat or intelligence service and > demonstrates the depravity of a regime objectively defended by Irish and > other Western peaceniks. >=20 > The defector's claims appear in the current edition of Vanity Fair,=20 > compiled > by David Rose. Never before has an article provoked such a feeling of > disgust. For Rose's account of the extent to which Saddam Hussein's > dictatorship will go to terrify its own servants and agents makes the fles= h > crawl. More disturbing still is the defector's allegations about the=20 > lengths > the Ba'athist =C3=A9lite have gone in order to acquire weapons of mass > destruction.=20 >=20 > For example, the former Iraqi agent claims he travelled to Africa to buy > highly toxic 'radioactive material with which to build a dirty radiologica= l > bomb' that kills thousands slowly through radioactive pollution and=20 > cancers. >=20 > He also outlines how Saddam's tyranny trains and finances Hamas, the > Palestinian Islamic fundamentalist movement. According to the defector, it > was Iraq which taught Hamas how to make bombs. Moreover, he says that Iraq > has developed a new missile system to hit Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt and > Iran as well, of course, as Israel. >=20 > Rose's courageous and thoroughly researched report will make uncomfortable > reading for those on the Western Left most vociferously opposed to any > United States-led attack on Iraq. Because if the defector is telling the > truth (his evidence is supported by Charles Duelfer, the former deputy hea= d > of UNSCOM, the mission aimed at overseeing the destruction of Saddam's > weapons of mass destruction), then there are serious challenges for the=20 > West > and hard questions for Western peace groups. >=20 > For Western governments, especially those EU nations, including Ireland, > which still adopt an ostrich-like approach to Iraq's nuclear ambitions, th= e > dilemma will not disappear - how to stop Saddam getting the bomb. >=20 > Every pacific avenue has been tried since the second Gulf War, from > diplomacy to sanctions, and yet the Baghdad dictatorship, according to > former agents such as the one who spoke to Rose, continues to search for=20 > the > technology and raw material needed to build nuclear, biological and=20 > chemical > weapons.=20 >=20 > The defector outlines how the regime evades sanctions through a series of > front companies in the Middle East and Europe to import material into Iraq > that forms the basis of 'dirty bio-bombs' that can kill tens of thousands. > His evidence suggests that even targeted smart sanctions may not prevent=20 > the > acquisition of these weapons. The United States and the EU are then left > with only one other option - military intervention. >=20 > Some policy-makers express concern that an outright military assault on > Saddam and the Ba'ath will set the entire Middle East ablaze. They argue > that in an atmosphere of seething Arab anger over the Israeli incursions > into Palestinian territory, invading Iraq would push the region over the > edge into widespread, possibly global, conflict. >=20 > This thesis, however, entirely misses the point of Saddam's project to=20 > build > a nuclear, chemical and/or bio-bomb. Iraq's acquisition of weapons of mass > destruction is designed precisely to escalate the Arab-Israeli conflict=20 > into > a nuclear confrontation. Young Arabs such as the polite Palestinian studen= t > I met last Thursday evening in Queen's University Belfast look forward to > the day of the Arab bomb. And their goal, according to him, regardless of > the rhetoric about two-state solutions from the PLO's apologists in the > West, is the complete destruction of the state of Israel, if necessary > through the use of, or threatened use of, chemical, biological and nuclear > weapons.=20 >=20 > The trouble with Western peace groups and their leftist support base is=20 > that > they have held a starry-eyed or, in the case of the Irish Left, a > Starry-Plough-eyed view of the Third World, especially those states that > style themselves 'anti-imperialist'. What they surely cannot ignore any > longer is the existence of a regime that endangers the stability not only=20 > of > the Middle East but perhaps the planet itself and which will torture and > murder even its own children in order to shore up Saddam's Republic of=20 > Fear. >=20 > henry.mcdonald@observer.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 00:03:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--May 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street(west of Greenwich Street) New York City FREE Subway--N,R/Prince; C,E/Spring; 1,9/Canal May 4 Gwen Ebert, Ross Martin, Carley Moore (guest hosted by the editors of Painted Bride Quarterly) May 11 Liza Charlesworth, Patricia Eakins, Ann Scott Night May 18 Elaine Equi hosts New City Lights: work by recent graduates from the M.A. program in Creative Writing at CCNY. Readers include Jacques Wakefield, Dawn Jackson, Larry McGlade, Myra Mniewski, Michael Morical, Eric Williams and others. May 25 Memorial Day Weekend--No Reading For more information, contact Michael Broder or Jason Schneiderman at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:37:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Canessa Park Reading 5/7/02 Anderson & Conoley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This reading begins at what time? T hanks, D avid -----Original Message----- From: Avery Burns To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:50 PM Subject: Canessa Park Reading 5/7/02 Anderson & Conoley >Canessa Park Reading Series >708 Montgomery St. @ Columbus >San Francisco CA > >Tuesday Night May 7th 2002 >Beth Anderson & Gillian Conoley > >Beth Anderson is the author of The Habitable World, >which was published in 2001 by Instance Press and was >a 2002 finalist for the Poetry Society of America’s >Norma Farber First Book Award. Her poems have recently >appeared or are forthcoming in New American Writing, >The Germ, Barrow Street, and other journals and in An >Anthology of New (American) Poets (Talisman House). >She lives in Richmond, VA, and is one of the editors >of Subpress, a cooperative small press. > > >Gillian Conoley's collections of poetry include >_Beckon_, _Tall Stranger_,nominated for the National >Book Critcs' Circle Award: _Some Gangster Pain_; and >_Woman Speaking Inside Film Noir_. Winner of a >Pushcart Prize and included in _Best American Poetry_, >she is Poet-in-Residence and Associate Professor at >Sonoma State U, where she is founder and editor of >_Volt_. Born in Taylor, Texas, she makes her home in >the SFBay Area with her husband, the novelist Domenic >Stansberry, and their young daughter. > >Hope to see you there, >Avery E. D. Burns > >Please Direct Inquiries and Correspondence to >P.O. Box 640531 >San Francisco CA 94164 > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness >http://health.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:51:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Clarification clarification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher, thanks for the clarification.--I for one was surprised to learn that we are restricted to just two postings per day: I could have sworn, loudly, there had been nine or ten messages from a single subscriber on some days. Can there be an explanation for this apparent contradiction? Meanwhile, keep up the good work! Best, David -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List Administration To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:32 AM Subject: Clarification clarification >I was disconnected from the email server just as my first clarification >went out, and I'd assumed it lost; here's the expanded version that I was >typing when the first version showed up in the list archive. Please >disregard the latter in preference of this one. ca > >-- > >Over the past few weeks, I've noticed a number of comments to the effect >that the list is no longer moderated. While - given the change of format - >I can understand why that might be the general impression, still it's not >quite an accurate one. For the sake of clarification, then, I'd like to >draw attention to the first section of the updated Welcome Message; I'll >post the entire Welcome Message momentarily. Long time subscribers can see >that we haven't quite reverted to the policy of four years ago, preferring >instead a course that we hope will allow us to maintain a space that is >largely free of the vituperative restraints that prompted our initial >change to a moderated format. > >So far, everyone at this end has been more or less pleased with the >results. I would, however, at the same stroke like to remind everyone that: > >1. For the purposes of keeping the list manageable for everyone, we have >established an automated limit of 50 messages per day and 2 messages per >subscriber per day. Please keep in mind that messages whose entire content >is "I agree" or "I disagree," while well-intended in a conversational mode, >do carry us toward the 50 message limit. (There is some flexibility here, >as I realize that boring administrative stuff is taking us 3 steps closer >to the limit even now.) > >2. Our longstanding policy against "flaming" remains in effect. While it is >generally a matter of common sense that one not verbally abuse others, for >those who need more specific information I have here included the relevant >paragraph from section 4 of the Welcome Message. > > >Christopher W. Alexander >poetics list moderator > >-- > >1. About the Poetics List > >The Poetics List is a moderated list. Due to the increasing >number of subscribers, we are no longer able to maintain the >open format with which the list began (at under 100 subscribers). >All submissions are reviewed by the moderators in keeping with >the goals of the list, as articulated in this Welcome Message. >The specific form of moderation that we employ is a relatively >fluid one: in most cases, messages are reviewed after having >been posted to the list, and difficulties resolved on that basis; >however, the list moderators may shift with impunity between >this and a pre-review mode which calls for all messages to >be read and approved before being forwarded to the list. We >prefer to avoid this option, as it hampers the spontaneity of >discussion that we hope to promote. In addition to these >options, the list moderators may place subscribers who find >themselves unable to abide by the rules of the list under >individual review, in which case only their messages would >be received for moderators' approval before being forwarded >to the list. For further information, please see number 4, the >Cautions section of this Welcome Message. We remain >committed to this editorial function as a defining element of >the Poetics List. > >-- > >4. Cautions > >"Flame" messages will not be tolerated on the Poetics List. In >this category are included messages gratuitously attacking >fellow listees or the list owners, also messages designed to >"waste bandwidth" or cause the list to reach its daily limit. >These messages are considered offensive and detrimental to >list discussion. Offending subscribers will be placed on >temporary review (see section 1). Repeat offenders will be >removed from the list immediately. Please do not put this >policy to test! > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:39:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: Re: a vile republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is the List's new policy of relaxed moderation and the recent emergence on the list of cretins like this a mere coincidence? In the context of the List's well-documented history of censorship it seems that a conscious exception is being made to encourage a particular propaganda that is endorsed by the list owners/moderators. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mister Kazim Ali" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 7:42 PM Subject: Re: a vile republic > Well, I remember participating in a lot of debates > like this one during the 80s trying (failing) to > explain to my American friends why it was a Bad > Mistake for the Americans and their CIA to be helping > Saddam (money and weapons) wage war against the Iraani > people--one of the things I tried to explain to them > (why don't Americans ever get any real news in the > media?) was that Saddam Hussain was using the American > money not just to wage war on Khomeini (did you ever > think you'd miss Khomeini?) but to wage war against > his own people, including the ethnic and religious > minorities. > > none that logic was good enough for my friends nor for > murderous, Machivellian American presidents of that > decade. > > later it was the same warnings from the Shi'a muslim > community (we're smart, we Shi'as) about funding the > reactionary Mujahedeen/Taliban--who incidently, also > with CIA money, helped to train that other troublesome > group in the Philipines... > > I mean, Americans just EXCEL at creating bad > situations that come back and bite them in the ass... > > a time to sow, a time to reap-- > > the fact that Saddam, bin Laden, the Shah of Iran, > Noriega, etc., etc., are butchers and brutes was never > new to anyone who had to live under their rule...it > was American convenience that required their ascension > to power, American convenience that required > (requires?) their fall. > > that's the vile part. > > > ===== > "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting > > behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" > > --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:16:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: a vile republic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Leonard, If you disagree with what this person posted, I can totally respect it-- *if* you make some sort of counter-argument. If you call him a name because of his opinions I have to assume that you have no respect for him or for anybody else on this list. As for list moderation, the only favoritism I see is toward you: your post is a blatant example of "flaming," and according the list's policy it should not have been allowed through. Mark DuCharme >From: Leonard Brink >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: a vile republic >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:39:53 -0700 > >Is the List's new policy of relaxed moderation and the recent emergence on >the list of cretins like this a mere coincidence? In the context of the >List's well-documented history of censorship it seems that a conscious >exception is being made to encourage a particular propaganda that is >endorsed by the list owners/moderators. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mister Kazim Ali" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 7:42 PM >Subject: Re: a vile republic > > > > Well, I remember participating in a lot of debates > > like this one during the 80s trying (failing) to > > explain to my American friends why it was a Bad > > Mistake for the Americans and their CIA to be helping > > Saddam (money and weapons) wage war against the Iraani > > people--one of the things I tried to explain to them > > (why don't Americans ever get any real news in the > > media?) was that Saddam Hussain was using the American > > money not just to wage war on Khomeini (did you ever > > think you'd miss Khomeini?) but to wage war against > > his own people, including the ethnic and religious > > minorities. > > > > none that logic was good enough for my friends nor for > > murderous, Machivellian American presidents of that > > decade. > > > > later it was the same warnings from the Shi'a muslim > > community (we're smart, we Shi'as) about funding the > > reactionary Mujahedeen/Taliban--who incidently, also > > with CIA money, helped to train that other troublesome > > group in the Philipines... > > > > I mean, Americans just EXCEL at creating bad > > situations that come back and bite them in the ass... > > > > a time to sow, a time to reap-- > > > > the fact that Saddam, bin Laden, the Shah of Iran, > > Noriega, etc., etc., are butchers and brutes was never > > new to anyone who had to live under their rule...it > > was American convenience that required their ascension > > to power, American convenience that required > > (requires?) their fall. > > > > that's the vile part. > > > > > > ===== > > "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting > > > > behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" > > > > --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > http://health.yahoo.com 'poetry because things say' —Bernadette Mayer http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:46:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: Re: a vile republic Comments: To: markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To me, "flaming" is the cowardly personal attack you're making, not the question I'm raising about list moderation, which has been un-even. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark DuCharme" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:16 PM Subject: Re: a vile republic > Dear Leonard, > > If you disagree with what this person posted, I can totally respect it-- > *if* you make some sort of counter-argument. If you call him a name because > of his opinions I have to assume that you have no respect for him or for > anybody else on this list. As for list moderation, the only favoritism I > see is toward you: your post is a blatant example of "flaming," and > according the list's policy it should not have been allowed through. > > Mark DuCharme > > > > > >From: Leonard Brink > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: a vile republic > >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:39:53 -0700 > > > >Is the List's new policy of relaxed moderation and the recent emergence on > >the list of cretins like this a mere coincidence? In the context of the > >List's well-documented history of censorship it seems that a conscious > >exception is being made to encourage a particular propaganda that is > >endorsed by the list owners/moderators. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mister Kazim Ali" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 7:42 PM > >Subject: Re: a vile republic > > > > > > > Well, I remember participating in a lot of debates > > > like this one during the 80s trying (failing) to > > > explain to my American friends why it was a Bad > > > Mistake for the Americans and their CIA to be helping > > > Saddam (money and weapons) wage war against the Iraani > > > people--one of the things I tried to explain to them > > > (why don't Americans ever get any real news in the > > > media?) was that Saddam Hussain was using the American > > > money not just to wage war on Khomeini (did you ever > > > think you'd miss Khomeini?) but to wage war against > > > his own people, including the ethnic and religious > > > minorities. > > > > > > none that logic was good enough for my friends nor for > > > murderous, Machivellian American presidents of that > > > decade. > > > > > > later it was the same warnings from the Shi'a muslim > > > community (we're smart, we Shi'as) about funding the > > > reactionary Mujahedeen/Taliban--who incidently, also > > > with CIA money, helped to train that other troublesome > > > group in the Philipines... > > > > > > I mean, Americans just EXCEL at creating bad > > > situations that come back and bite them in the ass... > > > > > > a time to sow, a time to reap-- > > > > > > the fact that Saddam, bin Laden, the Shah of Iran, > > > Noriega, etc., etc., are butchers and brutes was never > > > new to anyone who had to live under their rule...it > > > was American convenience that required their ascension > > > to power, American convenience that required > > > (requires?) their fall. > > > > > > that's the vile part. > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting > > > > > > behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" > > > > > > --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > > http://health.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > 'poetry because things say' > > -Bernadette Mayer > > > > > > http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 02:27:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Poetics Generator from FIU Klez.H text: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Poetics Generator from FIU Klez.H text: You may see three or four E-mails at one time, and the E-mail message subject line that "Klez.H" sends out is composed of "random" strings. The subject line may be composed of one of the following: a .[random word].. game, a [random word]... tool, a [random word]... website, a random word]... patch, ..[random word] removal tools, how are you, let's be friends, darling, so cool a flash,enjoy it, your password, honey, some questions, please try again, welcome to my hometown, the Garden of Eden, introduction on ADSL, meeting notice, questionnaire, congratulations, sos!, japanese girl VS playboy, look,my beautiful girl friend, eager to see you, spice girls' vocal concert, japanese lass' sexy pictures. The [Random word] may be: new, funny, nice, humour, excite, good, powful, WinXP, IE 6.0, W32.Elkern, W32.Klez.E, Symantec, Mcafee, F-Secure, Sophos, Trendmicro, or Kaspersky. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:27:26 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: World Poetical Forum In-Reply-To: <3CCDEC2C.6B946723@mwt.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit HI mIEKAL ta 4 posting that world poets forum thing. Interesting. But dumb that poets are listed according to countries. How reactionary:) So, i'd refuse to be listed. Sorry. love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:24:05 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: Re: a vile republic In-Reply-To: <010c01c1f001$30fcec40$2dd2f7a5@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Leonard Brink, I don't see anyone's difference of opinion here as cretinous. Pam Brown --- Leonard Brink wrote: > Is the List's new policy of relaxed moderation and > the recent emergence on > the list of cretins like this a mere coincidence? In > the context of the > List's well-documented history of censorship it > seems that a conscious > exception is being made to encourage a particular > propaganda that is > endorsed by the list owners/moderators. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mister Kazim Ali" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 7:42 PM > Subject: Re: a vile republic > > > > Well, I remember participating in a lot of debates > > like this one during the 80s trying (failing) to > > explain to my American friends why it was a Bad > > Mistake for the Americans and their CIA to be > helping > > Saddam (money and weapons) wage war against the > Iraani > > people--one of the things I tried to explain to > them > > (why don't Americans ever get any real news in the > > media?) was that Saddam Hussain was using the > American > > money not just to wage war on Khomeini (did you > ever > > think you'd miss Khomeini?) but to wage war > against > > his own people, including the ethnic and religious > > minorities. > > > > none that logic was good enough for my friends nor > for > > murderous, Machivellian American presidents of > that > > decade. > > > > later it was the same warnings from the Shi'a > muslim > > community (we're smart, we Shi'as) about funding > the > > reactionary Mujahedeen/Taliban--who incidently, > also > > with CIA money, helped to train that other > troublesome > > group in the Philipines... > > > > I mean, Americans just EXCEL at creating bad > > situations that come back and bite them in the > ass... > > > > a time to sow, a time to reap-- > > > > the fact that Saddam, bin Laden, the Shah of Iran, > > Noriega, etc., etc., are butchers and brutes was > never > > new to anyone who had to live under their > rule...it > > was American convenience that required their > ascension > > to power, American convenience that required > > (requires?) their fall. > > > > that's the vile part. > > > > > > ===== > > "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting > > > > behind bolted doors/for the season that will not > pass/to pass" > > > > --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > http://health.yahoo.com ===== Web site/P.Brown - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/7629/ http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger - A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:24:49 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: a vile republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are accusing me and Joe of being cretins: fair enough. I dont care what you think of me as I dont know who you are.. ..but I do know that I tend to rave on and over react...but in this case I think I had some justification...maybe some or even all of what Aaron conveyed is true: maybe I'm blinded: but the cause of that "blindness" is in fact the hypocrisy that has accompanied US policy: of course I'm not attacking the people of America or even Israel: you may be surprised but it is because I do care about the needless killing on both sides (but I see suicide bombing as a kind of desparate reaction - a heroic act of rebellion: while intelligent negotiation is the long term solution...and while that isnt happenning): or even if it is a clear cut case of self-defence one shows one's concern by active and often strong debate or action. Aaron has his opinions and I respect them...I''m not saying he's stupid (or his report is or was): I am simply pushing my views which are (without apology) laden often with rhetoric but that rhetoric is my right (poetic and otherwise). This list can't moderate against argued opinion: eg if you had come back with: "But I have information which contradicts your stance and backs up Aaron's report." That would contribute. But to attack people personally invites the censorship that you advocate: however I'm opposed to censorship (I mean in general and - mostly -on this list). Some people mistake a strong (and sometimes even flawed) argument - or ANY show of emotion or concern - as being "wrong" or "mad" because it "flames" or is fiery ... but the "anger" or the fieriness is a result of a truth of feeling about a situation: ok the details can be twisted and manipulated endlessly (and one can even be wrong in "points of law or fact"): but we need to be aware of WHY this kind of anti-Iraqi propaganda is emerging right now (why it provokes emotive response against it and how it is often put up as the (or a) rationale eg for a US attack on another country (which this time: Libya o r Iraq or Iran or Korea or even China?) (which if eg Iraq were to attack Kuwait it gets hammered and everyone cheers and goes on about how terrible Hussein is when he's probably been egged on by the US in the first place)): and who controls, ultimately, the news media. Does oil oil the way: I'd say oil is one culprit, and greed, but there are other factors: the need to control the drug trade, strategic positioning of the US military, power: the sexual - yes sexual - desire and even hunger for sheer naked power, the deep located sexual desire creating a consequent "need" to kill, the deep desire for certain militarists to inflict pain and death, the love of war and adventure, the need for armament business people to maintain their cash flow, the Western person's deep desire for cheap gas or petrol, racialism, the need to create an enemy (Joe McCarthyism), the kudos those "at the top" get, party politics, and the Richard Thirdian love of machination. The good side: today I saw some protesters, on TV (Ok I know dont believe everything on TV!) including some Americans, who, with great courage, had got into the temple in Jerusalem: people can discriminate...they'll know when it IS right ot act against Iraq (if ever)..and when to protest: its getting clearer that the whole US-Militarist (here I differentiate from the American people) plot is going badly wrong: as Mao said, they are lifting a rock on drop it on their own heads - if its not stalemate or checkmate its at least zugzwang: it doesnt look good for the XR-Republicans or Sharon the Bad. So the US etal have chosen the wrong time to attempt to undermine Iraq...one of the oldest and richest civilisations was located there: writing was invented in Iraq. We would be cretins to ignore international events and just write and debate langauge poetry... that debate is always linked to politics. To debate it constantly maybe silly, but these issues have to addressed at the right times. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark DuCharme" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:16 PM Subject: Re: a vile republic > Dear Leonard, > > If you disagree with what this person posted, I can totally respect it-- > *if* you make some sort of counter-argument. If you call him a name because > of his opinions I have to assume that you have no respect for him or for > anybody else on this list. As for list moderation, the only favoritism I > see is toward you: your post is a blatant example of "flaming," and > according the list's policy it should not have been allowed through. > > Mark DuCharme > > > > > >From: Leonard Brink > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: a vile republic > >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:39:53 -0700 > > > >Is the List's new policy of relaxed moderation and the recent emergence on > >the list of cretins like this a mere coincidence? In the context of the > >List's well-documented history of censorship it seems that a conscious > >exception is being made to encourage a particular propaganda that is > >endorsed by the list owners/moderators. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mister Kazim Ali" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 7:42 PM > >Subject: Re: a vile republic > > > > > > > Well, I remember participating in a lot of debates > > > like this one during the 80s trying (failing) to > > > explain to my American friends why it was a Bad > > > Mistake for the Americans and their CIA to be helping > > > Saddam (money and weapons) wage war against the Iraani > > > people--one of the things I tried to explain to them > > > (why don't Americans ever get any real news in the > > > media?) was that Saddam Hussain was using the American > > > money not just to wage war on Khomeini (did you ever > > > think you'd miss Khomeini?) but to wage war against > > > his own people, including the ethnic and religious > > > minorities. > > > > > > none that logic was good enough for my friends nor for > > > murderous, Machivellian American presidents of that > > > decade. > > > > > > later it was the same warnings from the Shi'a muslim > > > community (we're smart, we Shi'as) about funding the > > > reactionary Mujahedeen/Taliban--who incidently, also > > > with CIA money, helped to train that other troublesome > > > group in the Philipines... > > > > > > I mean, Americans just EXCEL at creating bad > > > situations that come back and bite them in the ass... > > > > > > a time to sow, a time to reap-- > > > > > > the fact that Saddam, bin Laden, the Shah of Iran, > > > Noriega, etc., etc., are butchers and brutes was never > > > new to anyone who had to live under their rule...it > > > was American convenience that required their ascension > > > to power, American convenience that required > > > (requires?) their fall. > > > > > > that's the vile part. > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting > > > > > > behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" > > > > > > --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > > http://health.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > 'poetry because things say' > > -Bernadette Mayer > > > > > > http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:38:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: a vile republic In-Reply-To: <20020430024238.42091.qmail@web21407.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed As FDR said of Somoza, who he'd just installed in the Nicaraguan presidency, "He's a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch." The US ius geared to the quarterly report. Longer than three months is science fiction. Mark At 07:42 PM 4/29/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Well, I remember participating in a lot of debates >like this one during the 80s trying (failing) to >explain to my American friends why it was a Bad >Mistake for the Americans and their CIA to be helping >Saddam (money and weapons) wage war against the Iraani >people--one of the things I tried to explain to them >(why don't Americans ever get any real news in the >media?) was that Saddam Hussain was using the American >money not just to wage war on Khomeini (did you ever >think you'd miss Khomeini?) but to wage war against >his own people, including the ethnic and religious >minorities. > >none that logic was good enough for my friends nor for >murderous, Machivellian American presidents of that >decade. > >later it was the same warnings from the Shi'a muslim >community (we're smart, we Shi'as) about funding the >reactionary Mujahedeen/Taliban--who incidently, also >with CIA money, helped to train that other troublesome >group in the Philipines... > >I mean, Americans just EXCEL at creating bad >situations that come back and bite them in the ass... > >a time to sow, a time to reap-- > >the fact that Saddam, bin Laden, the Shah of Iran, >Noriega, etc., etc., are butchers and brutes was never >new to anyone who had to live under their rule...it >was American convenience that required their ascension >to power, American convenience that required >(requires?) their fall. > >that's the vile part. > > >===== >"As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting > >behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" > >--Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness >http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:04:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: What Is? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT My sense is that, SPLURT! in general terms, "we" don't often-enough think of this Listserv as a "time-based project," in which we are participants by (conscious) default. This is not only what the Listserv could ideally be (a collective poetry project). This is what it is, regardless of how sorry a state we let it, and us, fall into. A time-based project is what this is, even when the "project" sense is denied and/or ignored, and when the "time" sense is made so glaringly present that we no longer recognize the present as a tense. Any project needs to be constructed. Any construction obtains because of principles and rules. Of all possible models of Internet "projects," a listserv is the most freewheeling and amorphous, certainly; but, nevertheless, even this one retains a singular shape -- partly discursive (who posts what, etc), partly determinative (e.g. two-post limit per day now), partly technological, etc. To ignore these (and other similar) aspects, is to ignore the most salient features of the Listserv as a medium of expression. Revved reflexive attention to the Listserv's time-based project-like features would at least start to address the materiality of the Listserv as a collective medium. This metacommentary of mine does not come anywhere near to doing that, however; no metacommentary, in itself, would. "Medium" here only partially -- in fact, minimally (but importantly) -- refers to the Internet technology, as I've implied above (even though most critical attention is directed to the sorcerer-like powers of the machinery, extrapolating from it to idealities of communication, as if technology in itself amounts to difference, and McLuhan had never written a word to learn from -- yet we all at the same time know that such determinism is not the case; just think of the early practitioners of Concrete, scribbled on paper with pencil, in unventilated rooms with dangling light bulbs, for instance, or of Klebnikov drifting hatless through the snows of Mongolia). "Medium" here more fundamentally and crucially refers to this very collectivity of address, this one, mine, as well as every other singularity of address that is enacted here, however generically, and this particular listening ear, mine, in its singular but also in its collective form, and each of yours in turn, and including this Emersonian eyeball enacted in present-tense placeless space, and yours, in this go-go of e-gos (har har). From writing, now, with / to, like this, a sense of medium is created and sustained, can even be reflexively shaped -- but most of the time, it seems we're just punching clock, without knowing it. Here's not news -- it's pimple-simple that Language Poets were reflexively aware of a / their medium! They had a specific sense of it (friends = paper = typewriter = recorder = magazines = city = books = etc) developed by / for themselfs. Their sense of a "medium" is different than it would be for a Listserv -- obviously (friends? archive? etc). They are by no stretch of the dim lands of peace, not by any other conceivable sense, the "first" poets to be reflexively attuned to their medium -- as some of them (i.e. those editing and writing essays) have been the "first" to attest, in so many ways, over and over (hence the need for a historical frame on all this, perfesser). For Language Poets, by gum (but this would be true of anyone, is true of us, here; what I am saying is intentionally plain, but I don't mean to condescend), level of reflexive awareness varied (I use the past tense to invoke an elementary sense of history as a narrating frame -- and not in order to comment on the relation of Language Poets or oif any other kind of poet to the present tense) from confused to articulate, depending on poet -- i.e., depending on circumstance, education, etc. Level of awareness varied depending on what each poet thought that the name "LP" might entail, as an identifying sign (some embraced it; some helped to create what others embraced; others maintained the embracers and the creators; others changed the terms of it all as it went on; some kept a distance but were happy to be taken along, so long as others kept doing the work of keeping it going, and so long as things went swimmingly; some internally, rightfully contested; you tell me the rest; et cetera). Level of awareness varied depending on what each LP-identified magazine’s editorial goals were thought to be -- before, once, and after being published. Level of awareness varied depending on the degree, kind, and origin of idiosyncratic aesthetic and social influences that were recognized (by anyone, to differing degrees) to be at significant variance with perceived (from within, from without) LP commonalities. Et cetera. Some might say that we cannot ever become aware of the Listserv as a medium, in any properly reflexive way, insofar as Language Poetry remains the comparative model of what a medium is and what being reflexively aware of a medium entails. I don't, obviously, think this to be the case. And I'm not alone, if recent posts are to judge -- and they are; why not?: As a Listserv, we no longer have even the most foggiest clue anymore who or what in hell the Language Poets were, are, or are going to be! Not even Barrett Watten cares to know! That's why he's joined the List! And, "Language Poetry" is not a stumbling-block to achieving a present-tense reflexive awareness of the Listserv as a medium because of "Oedipalitis" either -- that is, because of a certain bragadaccio attitude vis a vis poetry predecessors, among white males who have consistently dominated the Listserv since its foundation (at times worse than at others). Pimple-simple: the reason why Language Poetry ain't an issue, never was, is the medium of collective address here is differently constituted (refrain: if only we'd recognize this for what it can ideally be, and is, regardless of what we thinks it is, or thinks it can be). The reason why I feel stupidly compelled to state this actually longstanding opinion of mine (within months of subscribing) is because Language Poetry ("as such") and this Listserv are "now" being compared to each other, diachronically and synchronically, and I'm reminded of it because I've just recently begun to read the Listserv again (comes and goes, as I'm sure it does for most of you), spitoon by spitoon. Diachronically, of course it should be obvious to anyone that Charles Bernstein is founding specter of the Listserv; but, it is nevertheless only with (far as I know -- please tell me otherwise) Barrett Watten’s essay, "Secret History" (1999) that this fact is reflexively and theoretically raised specifically in order to rearticulate new meaning for, not Charles Bernstein (only), but Language Poetry (as such). Diachronically also, Barrett Watten considers the Listserv to be an outgrowth of Language Poetry (for two reasons, mentioned below). Synchronically, the question of what Language Poetry "is" -- as recent discussions also witness -- remains still alive with some of us (other synchronic factors include, as some have also recently mentioned, the "presence" of "Language Poets" "on" the Listserv). I think Barrett Watten is correct (in "Secret History") to identify poetry and community as the two founding and generative qualties (and opening question marks) that make it plausible to compare Language Poetry and this Listserv with each other in the first place (why _Legend_ is the *only* model, not one of a number of possible models -- some of which Barrett Watten himself raises -- remains unclear to me in terms of his essay, even as I understand that _Legend_ is obviously central to the specificity of his argument...; this has to be an aside). So in other words, these observations I am making here about the Listserv as a "time-based project" only make sense, really, if one reflexively agrees, like Rousseau's democratic cabbagery, that Poetry and Community are indeed the founding motivators for bringing attention to the medium as such (there are plenty of other possible motivators, however, but these two happen to be the ones that founded Language Poetry; for example, while Charles Bernstein has recently complicated the idea of "community," it is plain as the nose in my day that in his early essays "community" existed on the page, in the word; I'm sorry to only refer by name to the people I am, as they don't need attention so much as others do, but, think of it as a way of keeping this at the level of the obvious). We all already by default, to a certain degree, agree to these two premises (their basis forms Barrett Watten's link from the Listserv back to Language Poetgry as a historical formation] by virtue of being subscribed to a poetry Listserv in which any post, even a blank one, is automatically "addressed" to captive others, who in turn respond, even if they don't (a very basic definition of "community"). Poetry and community are our default settings, as EPC Listserv subscribers. What we do as a result has always been up to us. "Listserv," in all the above, might refer to any listserv. I started los PhillyTalks (http://phillytalks.org)-- another "time-based project" (any series of poetry events is that), but not a listserv -- because of frustrations with the low level of reflexive attention that was being brought to this Listserv as a medium. Others left the Listerv and started their own, yet surprisingly identified themselves in relation to this one, by calling themselves a "sub" listserv (and curiously, yet others want to be re-admitted to this one here, as if they're fallen angels, and this is the only, you know, one; etc). SPLURT! this sentence will disappear if every other sentence appears, and if that of can ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 05:30:50 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Democratic Cabbagery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If not "Oedipalitis"--- Hey Louis, great post (maybe David Hess will even find an answer to his "materiality" question here)--- So, this listserv is more diffuse than language poetry? Yet at the same time more culturally inconsequential? I often wonder about the use of the word "oedipal" (seen most recently by me in BK Stefan's interview with Miles Champion), and how it seems strangely incommensurate (what the hell) with the anti-freud project of many or even most who "deploy" that term often pejoratively..... But am very interested in the attention to medium--- I like to say THE BOOK'S the thing as I am enjoying your MOOD EMBOSSER but I'm actually enjoying your posts AS MUCH and in some ways MORE than the book (and I hope you will take this in the right way) even as I will DELETE the posts (knowing they're archived somewhere if need be) as I don't TAPE RECORD my phone conversations and this may be an invitation to see listserv as like labratory, where thoughts are worked out feelings acted out, etc. and maybe later shaped into something for a BOOK--- And though I "privilege the book" as such, it's still the possibility of community (as oppossed to the community of possibility?) that draws me here (rather than say to frequent a reading series)--it was once necessity--- sequestered in Albany, New York when I joined in 1994 and now may be seen a convenience (being in the Bay Area "mecca")--- "may be seen"-- The listserv not really as community but as a "site of contestation" from which a community may yet be, uh, "avowed" The possibility here as great as in those splinter "sub" groups of which you speak--- Actually, a wider range here-- Dross to be sure.... too much "mere publicity function" (and I will not deny partaking in it) But it's not really SUBORDINATED to the BOOK especially for those of us who do admire and envy (though this is NOT, I say, in any way, OEDIPAL) the way many of the writers that may now be historically called "language poets" seeemed to succeed in "fomenting an alternative youth culture" (actually, a phrase I'm borrowing from a chapter on FUGAZI in "OUR BAND COULD BE YOUR LIFE).....well, for THEM they did given the proviso that "youth" in poetry is generally older than youth in indie-rock of the 80s was.... To pursue this analogy further (as Clint Burnham is goading me too--- OFF THIS LISTSERV but NOT ANYMORE), just as indie bands in the 80s made money off relentless touring and did albums to promote the live shows (which inverts the "corporate rock scenario") maybe active participants of the listserv accrue what Michael Scharf loves to call "symbolic capital" through relentless posting, and write poems or books to promote the "let-it-loose let-it-rip" ness of their posts.... Well, maybe not quite the analogy.... I mean I don't want to subordinate the books to this medium either... But, of course, one problem some of us have (and I don't even claim it's entirely "generational" much less "oedipal") is that we have NOT found a community akin (oops "kin" as choice of word implies "family" which implies "romance" and that brings us back to FREUD) to the Lang. Po. alternative publishing network thing.... which is not just a matter of the difficulty in trying to find publishers for our books (though that's no doubt part of it....) okay, enough pseudo-sophisticated whining for now.... Chris Louis Cabri wrote: > My sense is that, SPLURT! in general terms, "we" don't often-enough think of > this Listserv as a "time-based project," in which we are participants by > (conscious) default. This is not only what the Listserv could ideally be (a > collective poetry project). This is what it is, regardless of how sorry a > state we let it, and us, fall into. A time-based project is what this is, > even when the "project" sense is denied and/or ignored, and when the "time" > sense is made so glaringly present that we no longer recognize the present > as a tense. Any project needs to be constructed. Any construction obtains > because of principles and rules. Of all possible models of Internet > "projects," a listserv is the most freewheeling and amorphous, certainly; > but, nevertheless, even this one retains a singular shape -- partly > discursive (who posts what, etc), partly determinative (e.g. two-post limit > per day now), partly technological, etc. To ignore these (and other similar) > aspects, is to ignore the most salient features of the Listserv as a medium > of expression. Revved reflexive attention to the Listserv's time-based > project-like features would at least start to address the materiality of the > Listserv as a collective medium. This metacommentary of mine does not come > anywhere near to doing that, however; no metacommentary, in itself, would. > > "Medium" here only partially -- in fact, minimally (but importantly) -- > refers to the Internet technology, as I've implied above (even though most > critical attention is directed to the sorcerer-like powers of the machinery, > extrapolating from it to idealities of communication, as if technology in > itself amounts to difference, and McLuhan had never written a word to learn > from -- yet we all at the same time know that such determinism is not the > case; just think of the early practitioners of Concrete, scribbled on paper > with pencil, in unventilated rooms with dangling light bulbs, for instance, > or of Klebnikov drifting hatless through the snows of Mongolia). "Medium" > here more fundamentally and crucially refers to this very collectivity of > address, this one, mine, as well as every other singularity of address that > is enacted here, however generically, and this particular listening ear, > mine, in its singular but also in its collective form, and each of yours in > turn, and including this Emersonian eyeball enacted in present-tense > placeless space, and yours, in this go-go of e-gos (har har). From writing, > now, with / to, like this, a sense of medium is created and sustained, can > even be reflexively shaped -- but most of the time, it seems we're just > punching clock, without knowing it. > > Here's not news -- it's pimple-simple that Language Poets were reflexively > aware of a / their medium! They had a specific sense of it (friends = paper > = typewriter = recorder = magazines = city = books = etc) developed by / for > themselfs. Their sense of a "medium" is different than it would be for a > Listserv -- obviously (friends? archive? etc). They are by no stretch of the > dim lands of peace, not by any other conceivable sense, the "first" poets to > be reflexively attuned to their medium -- as some of them (i.e. those > editing and writing essays) have been the "first" to attest, in so many > ways, over and over (hence the need for a historical frame on all this, > perfesser). For Language Poets, by gum (but this would be true of anyone, is > true of us, here; what I am saying is intentionally plain, but I don't mean > to condescend), level of reflexive awareness varied (I use the past tense to > invoke an elementary sense of history as a narrating frame -- and not in > order to comment on the relation of Language Poets or oif any other kind of > poet to the present tense) from confused to articulate, depending on poet -- > i.e., depending on circumstance, education, etc. Level of awareness varied > depending on what each poet thought that the name "LP" might entail, as an > identifying sign (some embraced it; some helped to create what others > embraced; others maintained the embracers and the creators; others changed > the terms of it all as it went on; some kept a distance but were happy to be > taken along, so long as others kept doing the work of keeping it going, and > so long as things went swimmingly; some internally, rightfully contested; > you tell me the rest; et cetera). Level of awareness varied depending on > what each LP-identified magazine’s editorial goals were thought to be -- > before, once, and after being published. Level of awareness varied depending > on the degree, kind, and origin of idiosyncratic aesthetic and social > influences that were recognized (by anyone, to differing degrees) to be at > significant variance with perceived (from within, from without) LP > commonalities. Et cetera. > > Some might say that we cannot ever become aware of the Listserv as a medium, > in any properly reflexive way, insofar as Language Poetry remains the > comparative model of what a medium is and what being reflexively aware of a > medium entails. I don't, obviously, think this to be the case. And I'm not > alone, if recent posts are to judge -- and they are; why not?: As a > Listserv, we no longer have even the most foggiest clue anymore who or what > in hell the Language Poets were, are, or are going to be! Not even Barrett > Watten cares to know! That's why he's joined the List! And, "Language > Poetry" is not a stumbling-block to achieving a present-tense reflexive > awareness of the Listserv as a medium because of "Oedipalitis" either -- > that is, because of a certain bragadaccio attitude vis a vis poetry > predecessors, among white males who have consistently dominated the Listserv > since its foundation (at times worse than at others). Pimple-simple: the > reason why Language Poetry ain't an issue, never was, is the medium of > collective address here is differently constituted (refrain: if only we'd > recognize this for what it can ideally be, and is, regardless of what we > thinks it is, or thinks it can be). > > The reason why I feel stupidly compelled to state this actually longstanding > opinion of mine (within months of subscribing) is because Language Poetry > ("as such") and this Listserv are "now" being compared to each other, > diachronically and synchronically, and I'm reminded of it because I've just > recently begun to read the Listserv again (comes and goes, as I'm sure it > does for most of you), spitoon by spitoon. Diachronically, of course it > should be obvious to anyone that Charles Bernstein is founding specter of > the Listserv; but, it is nevertheless only with (far as I know -- please > tell me otherwise) Barrett Watten’s essay, "Secret History" (1999) that this > fact is reflexively and theoretically raised specifically in order to > rearticulate new meaning for, not Charles Bernstein (only), but Language > Poetry (as such). Diachronically also, Barrett Watten considers the Listserv > to be an outgrowth of Language Poetry (for two reasons, mentioned below). > Synchronically, the question of what Language Poetry "is" -- as recent > discussions also witness -- remains still alive with some of us (other > synchronic factors include, as some have also recently mentioned, the > "presence" of "Language Poets" "on" the Listserv). > > I think Barrett Watten is correct (in "Secret History") to identify poetry > and community as the two founding and generative qualties (and opening > question marks) that make it plausible to compare Language Poetry and this > Listserv with each other in the first place (why _Legend_ is the *only* > model, not one of a number of possible models -- some of which Barrett > Watten himself raises -- remains unclear to me in terms of his essay, even > as I understand that _Legend_ is obviously central to the specificity of his > argument...; this has to be an aside). > > So in other words, these observations I am making here about the Listserv as > a "time-based project" only make sense, really, if one reflexively agrees, > like Rousseau's democratic cabbagery, that Poetry and Community are indeed > the founding motivators for bringing attention to the medium as such (there > are plenty of other possible motivators, however, but these two happen to be > the ones that founded Language Poetry; for example, while Charles Bernstein > has recently complicated the idea of "community," it is plain as the nose in > my day that in his early essays "community" existed on the page, in the > word; I'm sorry to only refer by name to the people I am, as they don't need > attention so much as others do, but, think of it as a way of keeping this at > the level of the obvious). We all already by default, to a certain degree, > agree to these two premises (their basis forms Barrett Watten's link from > the Listserv back to Language Poetgry as a historical formation] by virtue > of being subscribed to a poetry Listserv in which any post, even a blank > one, is automatically "addressed" to captive others, who in turn respond, > even if they don't (a very basic definition of "community"). Poetry and > community are our default settings, as EPC Listserv subscribers. What we do > as a result has always been up to us. > > "Listserv," in all the above, might refer to any listserv. I started los > PhillyTalks (http://phillytalks.org)-- another "time-based project" (any > series of poetry events is that), but not a listserv -- because of > frustrations with the low level of reflexive attention that was being > brought to this Listserv as a medium. Others left the Listerv and started > their own, yet surprisingly identified themselves in relation to this one, > by calling themselves a "sub" listserv (and curiously, yet others want to be > re-admitted to this one here, as if they're fallen angels, and this is the > only, you know, one; etc). > > SPLURT! > > this sentence will disappear if every other sentence appears, and if that of > can ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:00:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: a vile republic In-Reply-To: <016401c1f00a$892929c0$2dd2f7a5@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sorry Leonard, but in Internet parlance "flaming" implies personal insult of people involved in an online discussion as a way of avoiding the substance of discussion. It's a particularly vile kind of ad hominem "argument." Though I have to admit that I'm not following this exchange with a fine-toothed comb; at this time, in this exchange, you seem to be the only using terms like "cretins" to describe members of the list because you disagree with the content of their arguments. More generally, regardless of the recent change in administering the list, there has often been extreme differences in political opinions posted to the poetics list, and much more so since September 11th. As a long time reader of the list, though an infrequent participant, especially of late, I don't see a marked increase in this, though there may recently be somewhat less tolerance for people positing minority opinions including a variety of opinions that aren't always easily classifiable using old-line left-right dichotomies. Looking at what's posted to the list overall, it's hard to read it as favoring one view of these situations over another. And whatever "censorship" there is in the history of the list, in my reading of the issues, the controversies were rarely about the politics of non-poetic situations such as those currently under discussion and were more often about how people dealt with presenting and responding to positions in the very real politics of the poetry scene. Bests, Herb Leonard Brink wrote: >To me, "flaming" is the cowardly personal attack you're making, not the >question I'm raising about list moderation, which has been un-even. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark DuCharme" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:16 PM >Subject: Re: a vile republic > > >> Dear Leonard, >> >> If you disagree with what this person posted, I can totally respect it-- >> *if* you make some sort of counter-argument. If you call him a name >because >> of his opinions I have to assume that you have no respect for him or for >> anybody else on this list. As for list moderation, the only favoritism I >> see is toward you: your post is a blatant example of "flaming," and >> according the list's policy it should not have been allowed through. >> >> Mark DuCharme >> >> >> >> >> >From: Leonard Brink >> >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> >Subject: Re: a vile republic >> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:39:53 -0700 >> > >> >Is the List's new policy of relaxed moderation and the recent emergence >on >> >the list of cretins like this a mere coincidence? In the context of the >> >List's well-documented history of censorship it seems that a conscious >> >exception is being made to encourage a particular propaganda that is > > >endorsed by the list owners/moderators. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Mister Kazim Ali" > > >To: >> >Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 7:42 PM >> >Subject: Re: a vile republic >> > >> > >> > > Well, I remember participating in a lot of debates >> > > like this one during the 80s trying (failing) to >> > > explain to my American friends why it was a Bad >> > > Mistake for the Americans and their CIA to be helping >> > > Saddam (money and weapons) wage war against the Iraani >> > > people--one of the things I tried to explain to them >> > > (why don't Americans ever get any real news in the >> > > media?) was that Saddam Hussain was using the American >> > > money not just to wage war on Khomeini (did you ever >> > > think you'd miss Khomeini?) but to wage war against >> > > his own people, including the ethnic and religious >> > > minorities. >> > > >> > > none that logic was good enough for my friends nor for >> > > murderous, Machivellian American presidents of that >> > > decade. >> > > >> > > later it was the same warnings from the Shi'a muslim > > > > community (we're smart, we Shi'as) about funding the > > > > reactionary Mujahedeen/Taliban--who incidently, also > > > > with CIA money, helped to train that other troublesome > > > > group in the Philipines... > > > > > > > > I mean, Americans just EXCEL at creating bad > > > > situations that come back and bite them in the ass... > > > > >> > > a time to sow, a time to reap-- >> > > >> > > the fact that Saddam, bin Laden, the Shah of Iran, >> > > Noriega, etc., etc., are butchers and brutes was never >> > > new to anyone who had to live under their rule...it >> > > was American convenience that required their ascension >> > > to power, American convenience that required >> > > (requires?) their fall. >> > > > > > > that's the vile part. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:24:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 28 Apr 2002 to 29 Apr 2002 (#2002-78) In-Reply-To: <200204292103.172oRz6n43NZFjX0@robin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed See books by Iona and Peter Opie, including The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren, Children's Games in Street and Playground, etc. >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:33:02 -0400 >From: schwartzgk >Subject: Re: children's rhyme/game query > >Kasey, list: > >Part of my childhood I grew up in a small, rural upstate county a few miles >from a spiritualist community, and I learned this game from the children who >lived there, who where sons and daughters of spiritualists: > >Satan's Coming > >A letter must be taken, and the termination "ing". Say, for instance, that P >is chosen. The 1st player says to the second, "Satan's Coming." "How's he >coming?" says the 2nd. "Playing," rejoins the 1st. The 2nd then says to the >3rd, "Satan's Coming." "How?" "Prancing on cloven hooves;" And so the >question and reply go round, through all the words beginning with P and >ending with ing -- piping, pulling, pining, praising, preaching, etc. Those >who cannot answer the question on the spur of the moment "Will be collected >by Satan." > >It was a highly charged "game" on many levels, and all these years later, >it's stayed with me. >--Gerald Schwartz > > > A friend of mine has written me saying that he and his wife had > > > > >started thinking about all those things that get transmitted > > >down from kid to kid, like "ollie ollie oxen free," or choosing rhymes > > >like "one potato two potato" or "eenie meanie minie moe." We started to > > >think there might be an interesting project in this (that's code for > > >book). we thought it would be a good idea to preserve some of this stuff > > >and also to find the roots of it. (Just on a preliminary search, I found > > >that hide and seek was probably played in ancient Greece.) Does anybody > > >remember any good games or rhymes or anything from when they were kids? > > >It could be rope jumping rhymes or even games that kids played in your > > >area or activities like Bloody Mary, which my older brother taught me to > > >scare the pants off me. Anything. > > > > So I thought that the list might be a good resource for getting some > > responses, considering the rhyme-aspect of the question. Any ideas (front > > or back-channel)? > > > > Kasey > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:23:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fargas Laura Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 28 Apr 2002 to 29 Apr 2002 (#2002-78) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>See books by Iona and Peter Opie, including The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren, Children's Games in Street and Playground, etc. >> The Opies' work and scholarship were amazing to me, back in a college folklore course. I remember how astonished I was to read that 'ring around the rosy' was a literal description of a bubonic plague sore, or bubo, 'pockets full of posies' was the popular folk-preventative to sweeten the air one breathed since it was thought the plague was a result of an ill humor in the air, and 'ashes, ashes, all fall down' was about the burning of corpses (and bedding and clothing) and the mortality rate. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:27:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: a vile republic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Leonard, perhaps you could explain to me how publicly objecting to your behavior, while refraining from insulting you, amounts to a "cowardly personal attack." Curious, Mark DuCharme >From: Leonard Brink >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: a vile republic >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:46:54 -0700 > >To me, "flaming" is the cowardly personal attack you're making, not the >question I'm raising about list moderation, which has been un-even. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark DuCharme" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:16 PM >Subject: Re: a vile republic > > > > Dear Leonard, > > > > If you disagree with what this person posted, I can totally respect it-- > > *if* you make some sort of counter-argument. If you call him a name >because > > of his opinions I have to assume that you have no respect for him or for > > anybody else on this list. As for list moderation, the only favoritism >I > > see is toward you: your post is a blatant example of "flaming," and > > according the list's policy it should not have been allowed through. > > > > Mark DuCharme > > > > > > > > > > >From: Leonard Brink > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: Re: a vile republic > > >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:39:53 -0700 > > > > > >Is the List's new policy of relaxed moderation and the recent emergence >on > > >the list of cretins like this a mere coincidence? In the context of the > > >List's well-documented history of censorship it seems that a conscious > > >exception is being made to encourage a particular propaganda that is > > >endorsed by the list owners/moderators. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Mister Kazim Ali" > > >To: > > >Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 7:42 PM > > >Subject: Re: a vile republic > > > > > > > > > > Well, I remember participating in a lot of debates > > > > like this one during the 80s trying (failing) to > > > > explain to my American friends why it was a Bad > > > > Mistake for the Americans and their CIA to be helping > > > > Saddam (money and weapons) wage war against the Iraani > > > > people--one of the things I tried to explain to them > > > > (why don't Americans ever get any real news in the > > > > media?) was that Saddam Hussain was using the American > > > > money not just to wage war on Khomeini (did you ever > > > > think you'd miss Khomeini?) but to wage war against > > > > his own people, including the ethnic and religious > > > > minorities. > > > > > > > > none that logic was good enough for my friends nor for > > > > murderous, Machivellian American presidents of that > > > > decade. > > > > > > > > later it was the same warnings from the Shi'a muslim > > > > community (we're smart, we Shi'as) about funding the > > > > reactionary Mujahedeen/Taliban--who incidently, also > > > > with CIA money, helped to train that other troublesome > > > > group in the Philipines... > > > > > > > > I mean, Americans just EXCEL at creating bad > > > > situations that come back and bite them in the ass... > > > > > > > > a time to sow, a time to reap-- > > > > > > > > the fact that Saddam, bin Laden, the Shah of Iran, > > > > Noriega, etc., etc., are butchers and brutes was never > > > > new to anyone who had to live under their rule...it > > > > was American convenience that required their ascension > > > > to power, American convenience that required > > > > (requires?) their fall. > > > > > > > > that's the vile part. > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > "As to why we remain:/we're busy now/waiting > > > > > > > > behind bolted doors/for the season that will not pass/to pass" > > > > > > > > --Rachel Tzvia Back, "Azimuth," Sheep Meadow Press > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > > > http://health.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'poetry because things say' > > > > -Bernadette Mayer > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm > > > > > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com 'poetry because things say' —Bernadette Mayer http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/subpress/soc.htm _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:47:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: a vile republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cretins: poor things heads like eggs without yolks, thryoidism caused by lack of iodine, push fish inland. All creatures of our ... out yourselves now... i am just old and weary long time sufferer of multiple but undiagnosed God knows what, this latest word wars make me believe that the emperor has no clothes on capitalism is often an excuse for abominations and lastly the wizard of oz is a good metaphor for y today's so called leaders in closing maybe it's a so called blessing in disguise i have no grandchildren sorry for the unquoted cliches the grinding poverty I see here in jc and the atrocities I see/read media listservs makes me just want to stay in bed all day with my newly adopted formerly abused dumped cat who came to dinner in the fall. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:54:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: a vile republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry dyslexic girl forgot to sign last post Sheila also i always get a smirk when i think back to my forced Sunday school days at a rock ribbed Presbyterian church i did get quite an education in comparative religion/philosophy but the fact that the church sent us Presbyterian life a glossy magazine which told us how great rev sun young moon was and to PLS remember his great works in our offerings i.e. send cash i laugh until i cried when i read De Lillos book on him, well based loosley on him since we have more lawyers than any other profession why because we want accountability except personal think bushhe bro who is banished yet whose kid is becoming a model think institutional racism on campus grammar mavens Vs the others my idea of a good time is to put all the native grammar ratchets on a boat enroll them in less elite atmospheres in another language and watch them short circuit we do here forget that an MD is a body plumber bring back the normal schools throw out these babies who never lived authentically with their own bathwater Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:51:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Democratic Cabbagery Comments: To: cstroffo@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <3CCE8E7B.A5383444@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable yes, listserv as a lab. and also a factory --albeit, maybe "workshop" is a better word, in the ouvoir sense rather than mfa sense --meaning, a place where discourse is proliferated, to create a texture that creates a community and a vocabulary etc, for inquiry into specific issues (though optimally not all that specific, w/ permeable boundaries and borders) --and this proliferation, ephemeral as it is, may find longer life in some of the more "finished" artifacts based on it (Barrett's article, the book poetics@, various papers etc and poems etc), an eternal (or --what a grandiose word, "eternal"! --ongoing) semi-submerged, spectral presence in more overtly "public" and "finished" discourse... At 5:30 AM -0700 4/30/02, Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino wrote: >If not "Oedipalitis"--- > >Hey Louis, great post (maybe David Hess will even >find an answer to his "materiality" question here)--- > >So, this listserv is more diffuse than language poetry? >Yet at the same time more culturally inconsequential? > >I often wonder about the use of the word "oedipal" >(seen most recently by me in BK Stefan's interview >with Miles Champion), and how it seems strangely >incommensurate (what the hell) with the anti-freud >project of many or even most who "deploy" that term >often pejoratively..... > >But am very interested in the attention to medium--- >I like to say THE BOOK'S the thing >as I am enjoying your MOOD EMBOSSER >but I'm actually enjoying your posts AS MUCH >and in some ways MORE than the book >(and I hope you will take this in the right way) >even as I will DELETE the posts >(knowing they're archived somewhere if need be) >as I don't TAPE RECORD my phone conversations > >and this may be an invitation to see >listserv as like labratory, >where thoughts are worked out >feelings acted out, etc. >and maybe later shaped into something for a BOOK--- > >And though I "privilege the book" as such, >it's still the possibility of community >(as oppossed to the community of possibility?) >that draws me here (rather than say to frequent >a reading series)--it was once necessity--- >sequestered in Albany, New York when I joined in 1994 >and now may be seen a convenience >(being in the Bay Area "mecca")--- >"may be seen"-- > >The listserv not really as community >but as a "site of contestation" from which >a community may yet be, uh, "avowed" > >The possibility here as great as in those >splinter "sub" groups of which you speak--- >Actually, a wider range here-- >Dross to be sure.... >too much "mere publicity function" >(and I will not deny partaking in it) > >But it's not really SUBORDINATED to the BOOK >especially for those of us who do admire and envy >(though this is NOT, I say, in any way, OEDIPAL) >the way many of the writers that may now be >historically called "language poets" >seeemed to succeed in "fomenting an alternative >youth culture" (actually, a phrase I'm borrowing >from a chapter on FUGAZI in "OUR BAND COULD >BE YOUR LIFE).....well, for THEM they did >given the proviso that "youth" in poetry >is generally older than youth in indie-rock of the 80s was.... > >To pursue this analogy further >(as Clint Burnham is goading me too--- >OFF THIS LISTSERV but NOT ANYMORE), >just as indie bands in the 80s made money off relentless touring >and did albums to promote the live shows >(which inverts the "corporate rock scenario") >maybe active participants of the listserv accrue >what Michael Scharf loves to call "symbolic capital" >through relentless posting, and write poems or books >to promote the "let-it-loose let-it-rip" ness of their posts.... > >Well, maybe not quite the analogy.... >I mean I don't want to subordinate the books to this medium either... >But, of course, one problem some of us have >(and I don't even claim it's entirely "generational" >much less "oedipal") is that we have NOT found >a community akin (oops "kin" as choice of word >implies "family" which implies "romance" >and that brings us back to FREUD) to the Lang. Po. >alternative publishing network thing.... >which is not just a matter of the difficulty in >trying to find publishers for our books >(though that's no doubt part of it....) > >okay, enough pseudo-sophisticated whining for now.... > >Chris > > > > >Louis Cabri wrote: > >> My sense is that, SPLURT! in general terms, "we" don't often-enough think= of >> this Listserv as a "time-based project," in which we are participants by >> (conscious) default. This is not only what the Listserv could ideally be = (a >> collective poetry project). This is what it is, regardless of how sorry a >> state we let it, and us, fall into. A time-based project is what this is, >> even when the "project" sense is denied and/or ignored, and when the "tim= e" >> sense is made so glaringly present that we no longer recognize the presen= t >> as a tense. Any project needs to be constructed. Any construction obtains >> because of principles and rules. Of all possible models of Internet >> "projects," a listserv is the most freewheeling and amorphous, certainly; >> but, nevertheless, even this one retains a singular shape -- partly >> discursive (who posts what, etc), partly determinative (e.g. two-post lim= it >> per day now), partly technological, etc. To ignore these (and other simil= ar) >> aspects, is to ignore the most salient features of the Listserv as a medi= um >> of expression. Revved reflexive attention to the Listserv's time-based >> project-like features would at least start to address the materiality of = the >> Listserv as a collective medium. This metacommentary of mine does not com= e >> anywhere near to doing that, however; no metacommentary, in itself, would= =2E >> >> "Medium" here only partially -- in fact, minimally (but importantly) -- >> refers to the Internet technology, as I've implied above (even though mos= t >> critical attention is directed to the sorcerer-like powers of the machine= ry, >> extrapolating from it to idealities of communication, as if technology in >> itself amounts to difference, and McLuhan had never written a word to lea= rn >> from -- yet we all at the same time know that such determinism is not the >> case; just think of the early practitioners of Concrete, scribbled on pap= er >> with pencil, in unventilated rooms with dangling light bulbs, for instanc= e, >> or of Klebnikov drifting hatless through the snows of Mongolia). "Medium" >> here more fundamentally and crucially refers to this very collectivity of >> address, this one, mine, as well as every other singularity of address th= at >> is enacted here, however generically, and this particular listening ear, >> mine, in its singular but also in its collective form, and each of yours = in >> turn, and including this Emersonian eyeball enacted in present-tense >> placeless space, and yours, in this go-go of e-gos (har har). From writin= g, >> now, with / to, like this, a sense of medium is created and sustained, ca= n >> even be reflexively shaped -- but most of the time, it seems we're just >> punching clock, without knowing it. >> >> Here's not news -- it's pimple-simple that Language Poets were reflexivel= y >> aware of a / their medium! They had a specific sense of it (friends =3D p= aper >> =3D typewriter =3D recorder =3D magazines =3D city =3D books =3D etc)= developed by / for >> themselfs. Their sense of a "medium" is different than it would be for a >> Listserv -- obviously (friends? archive? etc). They are by no stretch of = the >> dim lands of peace, not by any other conceivable sense, the "first" poets= to >> be reflexively attuned to their medium -- as some of them (i.e. those >> editing and writing essays) have been the "first" to attest, in so many >> ways, over and over (hence the need for a historical frame on all this, >> perfesser). For Language Poets, by gum (but this would be true of anyone,= is >> true of us, here; what I am saying is intentionally plain, but I don't me= an >> to condescend), level of reflexive awareness varied (I use the past tense= to >> invoke an elementary sense of history as a narrating frame -- and not in >> order to comment on the relation of Language Poets or oif any other kind = of >> poet to the present tense) from confused to articulate, depending on poet= -- >> i.e., depending on circumstance, education, etc. Level of awareness varie= d >> depending on what each poet thought that the name "LP" might entail, as a= n >> identifying sign (some embraced it; some helped to create what others >> embraced; others maintained the embracers and the creators; others change= d >> the terms of it all as it went on; some kept a distance but were happy to= be >> taken along, so long as others kept doing the work of keeping it going, a= nd >> so long as things went swimmingly; some internally, rightfully contested; >> you tell me the rest; et cetera). Level of awareness varied depending on >> what each LP-identified magazine=92s editorial goals were thought to be -= - >> before, once, and after being published. Level of awareness varied depend= ing >> on the degree, kind, and origin of idiosyncratic aesthetic and social >> influences that were recognized (by anyone, to differing degrees) to be a= t >> significant variance with perceived (from within, from without) LP >> commonalities. Et cetera. >> >> Some might say that we cannot ever become aware of the Listserv as a medi= um, >> in any properly reflexive way, insofar as Language Poetry remains the >> comparative model of what a medium is and what being reflexively aware of= a >> medium entails. I don't, obviously, think this to be the case. And I'm no= t >> alone, if recent posts are to judge -- and they are; why not?: As a >> Listserv, we no longer have even the most foggiest clue anymore who or wh= at >> in hell the Language Poets were, are, or are going to be! Not even Barret= t >> Watten cares to know! That's why he's joined the List! And, "Language >> Poetry" is not a stumbling-block to achieving a present-tense reflexive >> awareness of the Listserv as a medium because of "Oedipalitis" either -- >> that is, because of a certain bragadaccio attitude vis a vis poetry >> predecessors, among white males who have consistently dominated the Lists= erv >> since its foundation (at times worse than at others). Pimple-simple: the >> reason why Language Poetry ain't an issue, never was, is the medium of >> collective address here is differently constituted (refrain: if only we'd >> recognize this for what it can ideally be, and is, regardless of what we >> thinks it is, or thinks it can be). >> >> The reason why I feel stupidly compelled to state this actually longstand= ing >> opinion of mine (within months of subscribing) is because Language Poetry >> ("as such") and this Listserv are "now" being compared to each other, >> diachronically and synchronically, and I'm reminded of it because I've ju= st >> recently begun to read the Listserv again (comes and goes, as I'm sure it >> does for most of you), spitoon by spitoon. Diachronically, of course it >> should be obvious to anyone that Charles Bernstein is founding specter of >> the Listserv; but, it is nevertheless only with (far as I know -- please >> tell me otherwise) Barrett Watten=92s essay, "Secret History" (1999) that= this >> fact is reflexively and theoretically raised specifically in order to >> rearticulate new meaning for, not Charles Bernstein (only), but Language >> Poetry (as such). Diachronically also, Barrett Watten considers the Lists= erv >> to be an outgrowth of Language Poetry (for two reasons, mentioned below). >> Synchronically, the question of what Language Poetry "is" -- as recent >> discussions also witness -- remains still alive with some of us (other >> synchronic factors include, as some have also recently mentioned, the >> "presence" of "Language Poets" "on" the Listserv). >> >> I think Barrett Watten is correct (in "Secret History") to identify poetr= y >> and community as the two founding and generative qualties (and opening >> question marks) that make it plausible to compare Language Poetry and thi= s >> Listserv with each other in the first place (why _Legend_ is the *only* >> model, not one of a number of possible models -- some of which Barrett >> Watten himself raises -- remains unclear to me in terms of his essay, eve= n >> as I understand that _Legend_ is obviously central to the specificity of = his >> argument...; this has to be an aside). >> >> So in other words, these observations I am making here about the Listserv= as >> a "time-based project" only make sense, really, if one reflexively agrees= , >> like Rousseau's democratic cabbagery, that Poetry and Community are indee= d >> the founding motivators for bringing attention to the medium as such (the= re >> are plenty of other possible motivators, however, but these two happen to= be >> the ones that founded Language Poetry; for example, while Charles Bernste= in >> has recently complicated the idea of "community," it is plain as the nose= in >> my day that in his early essays "community" existed on the page, in the >> word; I'm sorry to only refer by name to the people I am, as they don't n= eed >> attention so much as others do, but, think of it as a way of keeping this= at >> the level of the obvious). We all already by default, to a certain degree= , >> agree to these two premises (their basis forms Barrett Watten's link from >> the Listserv back to Language Poetgry as a historical formation] by virtu= e >> of being subscribed to a poetry Listserv in which any post, even a blank >> one, is automatically "addressed" to captive others, who in turn respond, >> even if they don't (a very basic definition of "community"). Poetry and >> community are our default settings, as EPC Listserv subscribers. What we = do >> as a result has always been up to us. >> >> "Listserv," in all the above, might refer to any listserv. I started los >> PhillyTalks (http://phillytalks.org)-- another "time-based project" (any >> series of poetry events is that), but not a listserv -- because of >> frustrations with the low level of reflexive attention that was being >> brought to this Listserv as a medium. Others left the Listerv and started >> their own, yet surprisingly identified themselves in relation to this one= , >> by calling themselves a "sub" listserv (and curiously, yet others want to= be >> re-admitted to this one here, as if they're fallen angels, and this is th= e >> only, you know, one; etc). >> >> SPLURT! >> >> this sentence will disappear if every other sentence appears, and if that= of >> can ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:55:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Ohill44@cs.com From: Poetics List Administration Subject: The Chandler Apartments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List "We all come into this world with our little egos equipped with individual horns. Now if we don't blow them, who will?" --George Sanders My first novel, The Chandler Apartments, is just hitting (a few) stores. It's a mystery based in the Berkeley poetry world (with apologies to the ghost of Jack Spicer). Lots of familiar characters, and a charmingly flimsy plot. It's a 13.95 trade paperback published by Creative Arts Books. If you can't find it SPD should have copies. "Owen Hill's breathless, sly and insouciant mystery is full of that rare Dawn Powell-ish essence: fictional gossip...Poets have all the fun, apparently."--Jonathan Lethem Thank you Owen Hill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:55:07 -0400 Reply-To: ATELIER14@HOTMAIL.COM Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: THE ANNEX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: THE ANNEX Subject: Out of This World MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OUT OF THIS WORLD an exhibition from Italy, curated by Stefania Carrozzini MASSIMO BERRUTI ROBERTO BERTAZZON BUELL PINO CHIMENTI GIOVANNI GARASTO GRAZIANO GUARNIERI STEFANIA SIRAGUSA ANTONIO TECHEL JOSEPHINE VANAS Opening reception: 2 May 2002 - 6-8PM (through May 30) Organized by International Exhibition Service, D'Ars Foundation THE ANNEX 601 WEST 26TH STREET FLOOR 14 NEW YORK, NY 10001 GALLERY HOURS: TUES - SAT / 12 - 6PM ATELIER14@HOTMAIL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:12:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: DerekRogerson.com Subject: Re: Democratic Cabbagery In-Reply-To: <3CCE8E7B.A5383444@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino wrote: > I like to say THE BOOK'S the thing What's a book? Do you mean like paper & stuff. Like in the 20th century? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:39:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry is still considering submissions through May 31. Guidelines follow. We've heard from and accepted a number of people from the list. We'd love to hear from more. Ian Randall Wilson Managing Editor http://members.aol.com/HollyridgePress/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Submission Guidelines for 88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsolicited submissions will be considered March 1 through May 31 only. Unsolicited submissions postmarked outside that window will be returned unread. However, submissions accompanied by an original proof-of-purchase will be considered year round. (Proof-of-purchase seal may be found in current issues of 88.) Manuscripts must be limited to five poems per submission with author name and address appearing on each page. Long poems not exceeding ten single spaced typewritten pages will be considered, but poems longer than three pages must be submitted separately. Essays on poetry and poetics, and reviews will also be considered. Please limit essays to no more than ten pages, double-spaced. Reviews must be no more than eight double-spaced pages. At this time, material is being considered via USPS submission only. No disk, email or fax submissions. (However, if accepted, material will need to be provided later on disk.) Include a self-addressed, stamped envelope for return of manuscripts. Submissions without SASE will be discarded unread. Cover letter with short bio, please. No simultaneous submissions or previously published material will be considered. We report on submissions within one to three months. Mail submissions to: Editor 88 c/o Hollyridge Press P. O. Box 2872 Venice, CA 90294 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:00:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: { brad brace } Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS In-Reply-To: <182.7a74350.2a0022c6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Weird; with all these demanding restrictions it's hard to fathom why anyone would bother... how much are the worthy "submissives" paid? At 12:39 PM -0400 4/30/2, Ian Randall Wilson wrote: >88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry is still considering >submissions through May 31. Guidelines follow. We've heard from and >accepted a number of people from the list. We'd love to hear from more. > >Ian Randall Wilson >Managing Editor >http://members.aol.com/HollyridgePress/ > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Submission Guidelines for >88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Unsolicited submissions will be considered March 1 through May 31 only. >Unsolicited submissions postmarked outside that window will be returned >unread. However, submissions accompanied by an original proof-of-purchase >will be considered year round. (Proof-of-purchase seal may be found in >current issues of 88.) > >Manuscripts must be limited to five poems per submission with author name and >address appearing on each page. Long poems not exceeding ten single spaced >typewritten pages will be considered, but poems longer than three pages must >be submitted separately. > >Essays on poetry and poetics, and reviews will also be considered. Please >limit essays to no more than ten pages, double-spaced. Reviews must be no >more than eight double-spaced pages. > >At this time, material is being considered via USPS submission only. No >disk, email or fax submissions. (However, if accepted, material will need to >be provided later on disk.) > >Include a self-addressed, stamped envelope for return of manuscripts. >Submissions without SASE will be discarded unread. Cover letter with short >bio, please. No simultaneous submissions or previously published material >will be considered. We report on submissions within one to three months. The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> since 1994 <<<< + + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace + + + eccentric ftp://ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace + + + continuous ftp:// < your site here > + + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace + + + imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace News://alt.binaries.pictures.12hr ://a.b.p.fine-art.misc Reverse Solidus: http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/ Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html { brad brace } <<<< bbrace@eskimo.com >>>> ~finger for pgp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:01:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit don't see what is so demanding about the guidelines... as for being paid, maybe you'll get a copy of the magazine, or two... ----- Original Message ----- From: "{ brad brace }" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS > Weird; with all these demanding restrictions it's hard to fathom why anyone > would bother... how much are the worthy "submissives" paid? > > > > > > > At 12:39 PM -0400 4/30/2, Ian Randall Wilson wrote: > >88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry is still considering > >submissions through May 31. Guidelines follow. We've heard from and > >accepted a number of people from the list. We'd love to hear from more. > > > >Ian Randall Wilson > >Managing Editor > >http://members.aol.com/HollyridgePress/ > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Submission Guidelines for > >88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >Unsolicited submissions will be considered March 1 through May 31 only. > >Unsolicited submissions postmarked outside that window will be returned > >unread. However, submissions accompanied by an original proof-of-purchase > >will be considered year round. (Proof-of-purchase seal may be found in > >current issues of 88.) > > > >Manuscripts must be limited to five poems per submission with author name and > >address appearing on each page. Long poems not exceeding ten single spaced > >typewritten pages will be considered, but poems longer than three pages must > >be submitted separately. > > > >Essays on poetry and poetics, and reviews will also be considered. Please > >limit essays to no more than ten pages, double-spaced. Reviews must be no > >more than eight double-spaced pages. > > > >At this time, material is being considered via USPS submission only. No > >disk, email or fax submissions. (However, if accepted, material will need to > >be provided later on disk.) > > > >Include a self-addressed, stamped envelope for return of manuscripts. > >Submissions without SASE will be discarded unread. Cover letter with short > >bio, please. No simultaneous submissions or previously published material > >will be considered. We report on submissions within one to three months. > > > > The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> since 1994 <<<< > > + + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace > + + + eccentric ftp://ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace > + + + continuous ftp:// < your site here > > + + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace > + + + imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace > > News://alt.binaries.pictures.12hr ://a.b.p.fine-art.misc > > Reverse Solidus: http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/ > Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html > > > { brad brace } <<<< bbrace@eskimo.com >>>> ~finger for pgp > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:17:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: DerekRogerson.com Subject: Ernest Hemingway Goes Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =09 =20 All of Hemingway's Titles to be Available on the Internet: http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=3Dentertainmentnews&StoryID=3D= 900 977 =09 ________________________ Simon & Schuster Brings Hemingway to the Internet=20 =20 April 30, 2002 =20 =20 NEW YORK (Reuters) - Ernest Hemingway is going online, marking what publisher Simon & Schuster said is the first time the collection of a major literary writer will be made available electronically.=20 The Viacom Inc. unit said Tuesday Hemingway's entire list of books, including literary classics like "A Farewell to Arms" and "For Whom the Bell Tolls," will be available in the electronic book format beginning in August.=20 Each e-title can be downloaded for $9.99, *below the list price* for most paperback versions.=20 "This is an important first step in creating a complete, scholarly electronic library for Hemingway, as well as bringing our classic backlist into the new era of digital publishing," said Susan Moldow, executive vice president of Scribner, the Simon & Schuster unit that has been the exclusive American publisher of Hemingway's books for 75 years. However, one industry analyst said the move was unlikely do much for the sector, which has seen several publishers scale back their e-book ventures in the last year. E-books have been slow to gain favor with the masses, often because they are hard to read and hard to find.=20 "The (industry) is pretty stagnant. The best advantage of this market is not for consumer fiction books, better for journals and trade books, travel guides and textbooks," said Jupiter Media Metrix analyst David Card.=20 =20 =09 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:22:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: Re: a vile republic In-Reply-To: <19a.18833dd.2a00087d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've been called a "cretin" on the famed 'Poetics List.' There's got to be some kind of 'rebellious bohemian' credential that's earned by that? Am I a bad-ass now? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:24:25 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Grumman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > don't see what is so demanding about the guidelines... I agree. In fact, most of the guidelines seem to me things any submitter, you would think, would not have to be told. I note, too, the absence of a reading fee. I wish I had something lying around to submit. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:30:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Palma Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:00 AM -0800 4/30/02, { brad brace } wrote: >Weird; with all these demanding restrictions it's hard to fathom why anyone >would bother... how much are the worthy "submissives" paid? >At 12:39 PM -0400 4/30/2, Ian Randall Wilson wrote: >>88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry is still considering >>submissions through May 31. Guidelines follow. We've heard from and >>accepted a number of people from the list. We'd love to hear from more. >> >>Ian Randall Wilson >>Managing Editor To: Brad - The restrictions sound pretty standard Brad. Many journals normally just pay with a complementary issue if you get in. They aren't getting rich here. I am irked by your tone enough to go out of lurker mode and chime in here. Why be so combative publicly on the list? Is this supposed to be a negotiating tactic? Why not simply backchannel your reply directly to Ian, "If accepted in the journal, do we get paid or get copies of the journal?" If you're not going to get enough $$ to your satisfaction, then don't submit. I think the goal in presenting poetry in journals, public spaces, public radio, etc. is to provide a space for poets to present their work and reach an audience. While the internet is great, I still appreciate the efforts of people to tackle all of the work and expense in putting out a print project. Even with a short run of 500 copies, it is often hard to recoup costs. Why poo poo the effort with words like "it's hard to fathom why anyone would bother..." Maybe you are just having a nasty day or maybe you are just a jerk. Why spread your negativity? -Christine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:39:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu / housepress Subject: housepress subscriptions now available.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable housepress subscriptions are now available... housepress is a micropress based in Calgary, AB since 1997 and is the = publisher of over 225 chapbooks, broadsides, pamphlets and leaflets of = international radical poetry and poetics (almost 1 a week since 1997). subscribers recieve 1 copy of every publication by housepress for a year = (pamphlets, chapbooks, postcards, leaflets - everything) as well as a = selection of publications from other small presses and magazines. = parcels will be send periodically (on average 3-4 times per year) = securely packaged. subscriptions are: $100.00 (Canadian funds, US funds if outside of = canada) and include all postage and handling. (individuals only, no = institutions please). for more information or to order a subscription, please contact derek = beaulieu at derek@housepress.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:46:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE {The Zombie Avant-Garde} / Jullich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- From: Jeffrey Jullich Date: 4/30/02 7:06 -0700 Chris: I sent this to the List at 1 a.m. last night (and again, re-trying, at 10 a.m. today), and this mysterious on-&-off problem seems to be back again: isn't appearing on List. Can you post? (Any word from the Computer Gods?) Thanks. --- Jeffrey ======================================================= Jonathan E. Minton wrote: > I wouldn't (and won't) use the term avant-garde to describe its content < It's true that the term "avant-garde" has been used less in the poetry world and more in the visual arts market. Poets, like Cage, sometimes wear "experimentalist" more comfortably ("experimentalist" was how the New York Times classed Robert Creeley when he and Michael Palmer were inducted as chancelors of the Academy of American Poets, in response to "minority" pressure). ---What once could've been called "avant-garde" is now usually being referred to (misnomer) by this vague umbrella term "Language Poetry" that's taken on obsessional redundancy. But Martin Corless-Smith, Sheila Murphy, and Jukka-Pekka Kervinen, all published in http://www.wordforword.info , come as close as any to being avant-garde, though, I'd say. "Avant-garde" must always be used in contradistinction to a more assimilated doppelganger: they, and everything in wordforword, are ~stridently~ avant-garde, if compared to a Stephen Dobyns or Stephen Dunn. Poets may conglomerate into a de facto "avant-garde" when they cease to operate as isolated agents, loners, and coordinate (are coordinatd) into a self-conscious group formation that's mutually aware of each other and cross-pollinated. Without that, a writer-artist remains ~"outsider art"/eccentric~ (and even then can be recuperated into an avant-garde, like the Douanier Rousseau's paintings or ~Les Chants de Maldoror~ being appropriated under surrealism). > Poets write for their peers, for their self, out of an impulse, or intellect, or whatever. If it's received as such then it's a measure of living. < That very self-enclosure (peers, self), though, may be one of the ways in which the activity can be seen as falling under a spectre of (theory-)death, a sort of secret society ethos: an ~insularity~ that's, by that very admission, sealed off from circulation with the general economy or eco-system that would constitute "living" (except through limited ministrations such as the academy, which, in fact, death-ifies what it treats by converting its object of study into a ~specimen,~ critical vivisection). "Theory-death" becomes measured by the (ineffectual/restricted) reach of an avant-garde's/poetry's ~effect.~ Anyone's resistance to being labeled "dead" is, of course, understandable and expectable. Again, though, it is ~not~ a negative or dismissive judgment. But this Paul Mann notion of "theory-death" may be more like ~brain-dead,~ in an otherwise living and expanding life support creature, ---or "spiritually dead": it does not signal termination, quite the contrary. The inert can still expand. ---Or, a more Pop example, "dead" as in The Dead Heads (way past-their-time followers of the rock band The Grateful Dead, notorious for their LSD-induced spaciness, fossilization and anemia). (For that matter, is rock-&-roll an avant-garde? "Rock Is Dead" was rock's own battle cry. The generational perpetuation of avant-garde poetry right now is very similar to the continual self-perpetuation of 3-minute song, guitarist band rock as an "alternative," as a counter-culture. The continuation of "Language Poetry" parallels the only other main multi-generational bohemianism: Punk, which roughly spans the same '80s-into-'00s zomby-ism.) (There are, admittedly, extreme problems with transplating Mann's term from the aether of high theory into applied cases, as I was doing; and there are problems with the term itself, which could presumably be replaced by a less melodramatic one.) The ~gratification~ I find in the term "zombie avant-garde"--- :) ---is in fact very literally played out, as demonstrated by the recent fad of self-generating language machines such as Jukka-Pekka's, which Chris Alexander wrote on http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0204&L=poetics&D=1&O=A&P= 17622 and http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0204&L=poetics&D=1&O=A&P= 18019 zombies, also popular in philosophy right now, are moving bodies that essentially lack consciousness, like poetry machines or "chance-generated processes." > Plenty of folks are busily, and happily, at work, perhaps too much so to worry about its death. < Another analogy, that retains the mood of "happily": the fundamentalist Christian use of self-identifying death in figures such as "dead in Christ," "dead to the world," "dead to Sin," etc (by baptism and salvation). And busy-ness itself may be a form of hypertrophy (or viralization). I do not find theory-death to be a source of ~worry.~ To the contrary, it comes to me with a kind of ~glee.~ (And I am not married to the term or concept, just presently infatuated. In May, we'll talk maypole.) wordforword was handy in that it offered such a ~cornucopia~ of specific death evidence; examples can be drawn from other sources. I find it freeing, rather, since there's a Puritanical repressiveness in our poetry community/America about the whole ~possibility~ of death: that would be too lyrically elegiac, that would be too concrete. And discovering a point of linkage at which (theory-)death can be looped back into poetics seemed constructive to me, since it restores the great Omissions that this quarter century's avant-garde poetry has juggernauted through without any blip of incorporation: AIDS, and now our New York necropolis, friendly fire casualties, and the new warfare by suicide. Other eras, such as Bataille's or the avant-garde Jacques-Louis David's "Death of Socrates," were less squeamish and foreclosed toward such forces. Jeffrey ======================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:04:02 -0400 From: Jonathan E Minton Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE {The Zombie Avant-Garde} / Jullich Of course I'll have to disagree with Jeffrey's diagnosis __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:57:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: { brad brace } Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry, it still sounds plain ridiculous... why not accept email _contributions (especially as you're also asking for digital files later)? Why aren't _contributors at least paid a token fee? Why accept and perpetuate such shoddy treatment? The Net presumably (usually) enables us to circumvent these ancient, hierarchical, administrative abuses. /:b ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:08:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Scappettone" Subject: c21p: Cole/Palmer Reading In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear All: Our big (and final?) event of the season is this Friday, May 3rd: a reading and talk with guests Michael Palmer and Norma Cole. The weather looks promising, and with luck we'll be able to throw open the porch doors and have an inside/outside get-together. More space = bring your friends! We'd love for everyone to make it for the potluck dinner starting at 6:30, as we are already nostalgic for conversations; the reading itself will begin at eight sharp. Please note that this is a changed date; the event was originally scheduled for May 9th. We look forward to seeing you, Joshua Jen c21p events are held at the Berkeley Center for Writing, 2275 Virginia Street (between Spruce and Arch); all are welcome, and dancing is expected after the event. If you have any questions, please contact Joshua Clover: janedark@mindspring.com Jen Scappettone: jscape@socrates.berkeley.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:33:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Minton Subject: Re: inchoate/SEGUE {The Zombie Avant-Garde} / Jullich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeffrey, I do appreciate your theory; and I can even see some evidence of what you're saying, especially in Jon Thompson's work, which is, after all, deliberately archaeological; but, as you do admit, this is not necessarily problematic, nor cause for a knee-jerk value-judgement. I do, however, think you're stretching your case much, much too far in your comments regarding, for just one example, Pavelich's poem ("pure zero drive repetition compulsion in David Pavelich's rearranged lines"). What is "pure zero drive," as you use the phrase here?" I don't get it. And is replication + variation, which is what the poem explores, at least in part, always this "pure zero drive?" What would that say about, oh, fractal geometry, cell division, or human reproduction? I don't see a viable application of theory-death here. To talk of this particular poem, especially, in terms of theory-death (which is otherwise interesting and useful) seems glib and not at all very useful. I don't want to be a bore, or seem TOO defensive, so I won't go on any further about it. I'm sure you understand. 'Nuff said. Jon Minton, Co-Editor, Word/ For Word ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:47:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris McCreary Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too will come out of lurker mode for this one... We here at ixnay press do accept e-mailed submissions, but, for all the good of electronic communications, there's certainly been a downside to those kind of submissions. I'd say the number of people submitting to the mag who've never actually seen it has increased dramatically over the years, while our overall readership has grown at a much slower rate. Many more people, it seems, are interesting in getting their poems into a mag they've never seen than spending the money to check out the quality of the mag first. From a writer's point of view, I understand some of the motives for doing so; from an editor's point of view, tho... It's awfully easy to see a mag's name on a list somewhere and fire off some poems, and I think e-mail has made this sort of shotgunning even easier. It's hard as an editor to take the time to wade thru all of those submissions when 75% of the people would've known they weren't a match for the mag if they'd ever seen it or even visited our website. So I can imagine an editor not even wanting to open up that (electronic) avenue... As for paying contributors even a token fee, I dunno. We lose $$$ on each issue or maybe come close to breaking even, & I can't imagine being required to dole out cash to each contributor on top of their free copies. The idea of cash payment in the small press world strikes me as the most bizarre part of this dialogue. Chris McCreary In a message dated 4/30/2002 2:52:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, bbrace@WIREDMAG.COM writes: > Sorry, it still sounds plain ridiculous... why not accept email > _contributions (especially as you're also asking for digital files later)? > Why aren't _contributors at least paid a token fee? Why accept and > perpetuate such shoddy treatment? The Net presumably (usually) enables us > to circumvent these ancient, hierarchical, administrative abuses. > > > > /:b ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:46:36 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think print poets who submit regularly to pront journals and get rejected and look at tons of authors' guidelines see these thigs differently from web poets who are used to just having to give as URL and not having heavy competeition for many venues. Funny thing is, you get more recognition from the easier, web, route, and it sometimes even leads to print... But print is still the way for Real Poets and I aspire to it but submit (and resumbmit)rarely enough that I will never succeed that way... Millie -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Christine Palma Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:30 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS At 10:00 AM -0800 4/30/02, { brad brace } wrote: >Weird; with all these demanding restrictions it's hard to fathom why anyone >would bother... how much are the worthy "submissives" paid? >At 12:39 PM -0400 4/30/2, Ian Randall Wilson wrote: >>88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry is still considering >>submissions through May 31. Guidelines follow. We've heard from and >>accepted a number of people from the list. We'd love to hear from more. >> >>Ian Randall Wilson >>Managing Editor To: Brad - The restrictions sound pretty standard Brad. Many journals normally just pay with a complementary issue if you get in. They aren't getting rich here. I am irked by your tone enough to go out of lurker mode and chime in here. Why be so combative publicly on the list? Is this supposed to be a negotiating tactic? Why not simply backchannel your reply directly to Ian, "If accepted in the journal, do we get paid or get copies of the journal?" If you're not going to get enough $$ to your satisfaction, then don't submit. I think the goal in presenting poetry in journals, public spaces, public radio, etc. is to provide a space for poets to present their work and reach an audience. While the internet is great, I still appreciate the efforts of people to tackle all of the work and expense in putting out a print project. Even with a short run of 500 copies, it is often hard to recoup costs. Why poo poo the effort with words like "it's hard to fathom why anyone would bother..." Maybe you are just having a nasty day or maybe you are just a jerk. Why spread your negativity? -Christine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:14:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This is a fascinating discussion, especially in recent posts by Millie and Chris. It's helpful to hear the concerns of a print journal editor. I'm more like Millie; I publish about 2/3 web and 1/3 print, so I guess I qualify as a 'web poet'. I love reading poems at websites and contributing to websites. VeRT has been amazin' and Jim Behrle does wonderful work, for example. Well and then there's Jacket, one of the best joints around. In a big way I think those journals are more vital, more appropriate to our literary/cultural milieu than any of the thousands of obscure (but still terribly difficult to get published in) print journals. Print still does have more cachet in terms of, like, when you're being introduced at a reading, though. I've noticed introducers reading only recognizable print journal names in my introductions. Perhaps they have more "bio power." Which is such a lame thing. Just give us the damned poems, I say. The only reason you'd need all your "credibility" trotted out before reading is because people don't know what the fuck they're listening to. They need to know how much to enjoy what they're hearing. For once I'd like an introducer to say, "You know, Belz is boss. He's tops. Check this shit out. Afterwards we're all getting drunk. Belz?" Something along those lines. To make this point I once wrote my own power-bio chock full of falsities, which I'll append. It felt like writing an epitaph! -Aaron BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION FOR ALL PUBLIC APPEARANCES Native Canadian poet Aaron Belz currently serves as the Director of Poetry Studies at Marcel University, where he edits the award-winning literary magazine Nomenclature. Mr. Belz's poetry has appeared in a diverse array of venues, including Sabbath Bear, Red Moon Quarterly, Nevermore, Cloud City Review, Symposium, Nomenclature, The Nation and Poetry Scoop, and has been nominated for awards such as the Ashland Prize and the Coover County Citation of Excellence. His third collection, What the Body Lost, is due in August from Ragweed Editions. ++++++++++ Praise for Aaron Belz's second book, Love of Angels: "Eerily harrowing. A haunting pericope of human loss, where melancholy meets maleficence. Buy it." --Annie Keller, True South Quarterly "A droll yet sunny bouquet of half-poems. A harrowing collection." --Ilya Holden, editor of Contemporary Literary Bestiary "Alarming yet soothing. Consider the territory of tongue-in-cheek conquered." --Mike Klemenger, The Vancouver Daily Gazette "This surprising debut should surprise even the most jaded, ashtray-mouth critic. The poet is alive. What we have here is a foundation to build on. Buy it." --Publishers Weekly "Harrowing yet almost debilitatingly self-aware. A keen, surprising collection of poems set in the half-light of consciousness, where sorrow crosses paths with despair." --Kirkus Reviews "What a joy to discover such a treasure trove of stock imagery. In the shadows where the eery meets the obvious, we have found Belz's book." --Tom Banneker, Yukon Quarterly ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:24:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I didn't have a problem with the call for submissions. I sent two poems = to 88.=20 Any magazine has the right to determine its own policies. A policy that = works for me might not work for you. The editor has to choose what works = for him or her. It's not my magazine. If I don't like a magazine's required format for submissions, I don't = submit. Because of the way my lines run over the page, I prefer to = submit poems as file attachments or surface mail, not as part of my = e-mail, which would require extensive time and formatting on my part. On = days when I feel differently, I take the time to reformat and submit. Believe me, the policy that was posted is not nearly as painful or = inconvenient as Cancer, racial discrimination, rape, terrorist attacks = or nuclear holocaust.=20 Vernon Frazer . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:51:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What I want from a submission call is information about what the publication hopes to accomplish, what it is measuring itself against. Modest format impediments to submission strike me as a good thing. If one has to think a bit about whether or not to trouble with the process is that a bad thing? Good things, bad things, you know I've had my share. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:22:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! So much that's funny here, Aaron, but here's my seconding for more intros in this vein (and the ideas behind it): "For once I'd like an >introducer to say, "You know, Belz is boss. He's tops. Check this shit out. >Afterwards we're all getting drunk. Belz?" " Can we vote on making that the new standard format for poet intros at readings? Really, I mean it. Ken At 04:14 PM 4/30/2002 -0500, you wrote: >This is a fascinating discussion, especially in recent posts by Millie and >Chris. It's helpful to hear the concerns of a print journal editor. I'm >more like Millie; I publish about 2/3 web and 1/3 print, so I guess I >qualify as a 'web poet'. I love reading poems at websites and contributing >to websites. VeRT has been amazin' and Jim Behrle does wonderful work, for >example. Well and then there's Jacket, one of the best joints around. In a >big way I think those journals are more vital, more appropriate to our >literary/cultural milieu than any of the thousands of obscure (but still >terribly difficult to get published in) print journals. Print still does >have more cachet in terms of, like, when you're being introduced at a >reading, though. I've noticed introducers reading only recognizable print >journal names in my introductions. Perhaps they have more "bio power." >Which is such a lame thing. Just give us the damned poems, I say. The only >reason you'd need all your "credibility" trotted out before reading is >because people don't know what the fuck they're listening to. They need to >know how much to enjoy what they're hearing. For once I'd like an >introducer to say, "You know, Belz is boss. He's tops. Check this shit out. >Afterwards we're all getting drunk. Belz?" Something along those lines. > >To make this point I once wrote my own power-bio chock full of falsities, >which I'll append. It felt like writing an epitaph! > >-Aaron > > > > >BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION FOR ALL PUBLIC APPEARANCES > >Native Canadian poet Aaron Belz currently serves as the Director of Poetry >Studies at Marcel University, where he edits the award-winning literary >magazine Nomenclature. Mr. Belz's poetry has appeared in a diverse array of >venues, including Sabbath Bear, Red Moon Quarterly, Nevermore, Cloud City >Review, Symposium, Nomenclature, The Nation and Poetry Scoop, and has been >nominated for awards such as the Ashland Prize and the Coover County >Citation of Excellence. His third collection, What the Body Lost, is due in >August from Ragweed Editions. > >++++++++++ > >Praise for Aaron Belz's second book, Love of Angels: > >"Eerily harrowing. A haunting pericope of human loss, where melancholy meets >maleficence. Buy it." --Annie Keller, True South Quarterly > >"A droll yet sunny bouquet of half-poems. A harrowing collection." >--Ilya Holden, editor of Contemporary Literary Bestiary > >"Alarming yet soothing. Consider the territory of tongue-in-cheek >conquered." --Mike Klemenger, The Vancouver Daily Gazette > >"This surprising debut should surprise even the most jaded, ashtray-mouth >critic. The poet is alive. What we have here is a foundation to build on. >Buy it." --Publishers Weekly > > "Harrowing yet almost debilitatingly self-aware. A keen, surprising >collection of poems set in the half-light of consciousness, where sorrow >crosses paths with despair." --Kirkus Reviews > >"What a joy to discover such a treasure trove of stock imagery. In the >shadows where the eery meets the obvious, we have found Belz's book." >--Tom Banneker, Yukon Quarterly > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:53:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tell you what, brad, start up a journal, or a chapbook series, & see how much money you are able to pull in in order to pay your contributors. while you're at it, see how willing you are to receive e-mail after e-mail (with attachments mind you) from people asking you to consider their work for publication. duration press does not accept unsolicited manuscripts from anyone who writes primarily in english (we prefer translated material). duration press pays its authors with 10% of the print run, nothing more. duration press has yet to break even after 19 titles. call them abuses, but i'd like to think of them as guidelines by which we are able to operate our organizations. Jerrold Shiroma, director duration press www.durationpress.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "{ brad brace }" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:57 PM Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS > Sorry, it still sounds plain ridiculous... why not accept email > _contributions (especially as you're also asking for digital files later)? > Why aren't _contributors at least paid a token fee? Why accept and > perpetuate such shoddy treatment? The Net presumably (usually) enables us > to circumvent these ancient, hierarchical, administrative abuses. > > > > /:b > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:31:28 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: children's rhyme/game query In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi, start with the work of Iona and Peter Opi. it's a huge field but they're the beez kneez. good luck, kevin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:33:37 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Book launch for Stan Dragland's 12 BARS Comments: To: "CPA Listserv@" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this is in st. john's, NF. ------- Running the Goat Books & Broadsides is pleased to announce the publication of its newest chapbook -- 12 BARS, an inter-related sequence of twelve prose blues pieces, by Stan Dragland. Each piece takes its name from a bar in downtown St. John's, but the deeper landscapes of this book are music, middle age and the bittersweet sorrows of the heart. Printed letterpress in two editions: a plain, saddlestitched edition and a handsewn, fine paper edition with a cover of Japanese cork paper. Special launch prices available until May 15th; for more information contact mparsons@roadrunner.nf.net Please help us celebrate the publication of this wonderful book on Tuesday, May 14th at the RCA Gallery of the LSPU Hall -- 7:00-8:30 pm. There will be a reading by Stan and music by Caroline and John Clarke. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:13:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: 5/7 Tues: Highfill + Elliot/Durgin + Hofer in Brooklyn! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Nada requests the pleasure of your company at the Flying Saucer Cafe 494 Atlantic Avenue Brooklyn on the evening of Tuesday May 7 at 8 pm .........................for AN EVENING OF COLLABORATIONS................................. FEATURING JOE ELLIOT + MITCH HIGHFILL PATRICK DURGIN + JEN HOFER with a collaborative introduction by GARY SULLIVAN + NADA GORDON **Joe Elliot co-edits Situations, a chapbook series. His book, Opposable Thumb, is forthcoming from SubPress. **Mitch Highfill is the author of The Blue Dahlia, and has a book forthcoming from Situations, Koenig's Sphere. Joe & Mitch will read from their collaborative take on and dialogue about the Exeter Book, a 10th Century anonymous compilation of West-Saxon riddles. ...........................more......................... **Patrick F. Durgin's most recent publication is an e-book from Duration Press, Sorter (2001 - see: www.durationpress.com). In 1998, he initiated the Kenning series of "newsletters" and chapbooks (information at: www.durationpress.com/kenning), the most recent of which is a double-cd featuring audio editions of works by three generations of authors, composers, artists (it also includes the first audio edition of Leslie Scalapino's book WAY). Diologues with poet Andrew Levy and prose writer Bandon Stosuy are newly published by Antennae and Rust Talks, respectively. **Jen Hofer is a poet & translator originally from the San Francisco Bay Area. Her books include _as far as_ (a+bend press, 1999), _The 3:15 Experiment_ (with Lee Ann Brown, Danika Dinsmore & Bernadette Mayer, The Owl Press, 2001), _Laws_ (A.BACUS #139, with drawings by Melissa Dyne, Potes & Poets Press, 2001), and _Slide Rule_ (subpress, 2002). She edited and translated an anthology of contemporary poetry by Mexican women, _Inscrutable Geometry, Avidity_, which will be co-published by University of Pittsburgh Press and Ediciones Sin Nombre in 2003. Recent work can be found in Antennae, Chain, Enough, HOW2 and Kenning (audio edition). In collaboration with the artist Melissa Dyne, she constructed a large-scale camera obscura in a plaza on a busy corner in downtown Mexico City in April, 2002 which will be open to the public for a year. Patrick's statement about his collaboration with Jen: "Jen and I have been discussing what I was calling a "potential synaesthetic poetics" in a piece published in Tripwire's second issue, "Writing as Activism" (1998) - those discussions became a devoted correspondence and a collaborative poem. Both components play into a larger gathering of material we envision making sometime down the road, all revolving around but not limited to the issues pertaining to synaesthesia I, for better or worse, brought up in my Tripwire piece. A synaesthetic poetics, we keep suggesting, takes intersubjectivity as a material textual condition. Excerpts from the poem appear in recent / forthcoming issues of the following journals: Aufgabe, Bombay Gin, Chain, Combo, and !factorial. This will be the first time we read together from a newly "scored" version of the poem. It will also be the first time we've been able to spend any time together, face-to-face, in three years." HOW TO GET THERE: Take the 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or D or Q to the Atlantic Subway stop and walk underground to the Pacific Street exit (at the N or R or M Pacific Street Stop) or take the B or N or R or M - in any case, go out the Pacific Street Exit (right exit), take a right - at the end of the block you will be on Atlantic Ave. Take a left on Atlantic, and about two and a half blocks down, between Third and Nevins, you will find the Flying Saucer Cafe. $3 donation. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:14:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: A. Cobb & K. Davies May 4 Double Happiness! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" May 4 Allison Cobb & Kevin Davies at Double Happiness 173 MOTT STREET, JUST SOUTH OF BROOME ST. SATURDAYS FROM 4:30-6:30 PM $4 admission goes to support the readers Allison Cobb is the author of the chapbooks The little box book (Situation1999), J poems (BabySelf Press 2000) and Polar Bear and Desert Fox (BabySelf Press 2001). A full-length collection, Born Two, is due in 2003 from Chax Press. A former DC resident and curator of the DC In Your Ear reading series, she now lives in Brooklyn end edits POM2 magazine. Kevin Davies was born and raised on Vancouver Island. In the 1980s he was active in the Vancouver poetry community and was a member of the Kootenay School of Writing collective. Since 1992 he has lived in New York City. His books include Pause Button (Tsunami Editions, Vancouver, 1992) and Comp (Edge Books). -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:00:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cadaly Subject: mondegreens used to sell cds MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT newest columbia house mailing includes such faves as "I'm a pool hall ace" and "sweet dreams are made of cheese" under a heading "get ready to laugh at some of the most frequently misquoted songs" and still with the pro forma footnote "contains explicit lyrics which may be objectionable to some members" Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:19:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: FAQS ABOUT LANGUAGE POETRY [+ thanks for replies to query] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [unrelated pre-script, tucked in with this post in respect of the 50-post-per-day-limit: MANY THANKS to all who sent responses to my children's-rhyme-&-game query. --KSM] ---------------------------------------------------------- FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT LANGUAGE POETRY Q. What is the definition of Language poetry? A. There is no single, universally accepted definition of Language poetry. There are many reasons for this (not the least of which is the cliche "one man's Language poet is another's freedom fighter"). Even different agencies of the US government have different working definitions. Most definitions usually have common elements, though, oriented around Language poetry as the systematic use of radical linguistic disjunction--actual or threatened--against readers but with an audience broader than the immediate victims in mind to create a general climate of aporia in a target population, in order to effect some kind of poetic and / or social change. Q. What is the main cause of Language poetry? A. Dissatisfaction with a poetic or social system or policy, and an inability to change it through "mainstream" or non-disjunctive means. Q. Is Language poetry ever, in any situation, justifiable in this day and age? A. For any act of Language poetry, there is always a poetic, social, political, or philosophic creed that can be used to justify it by someone. To "justify" an act, one must compare it with a legal or ideological system as a basis of justification. If one considers an act "justifiable," one probably wouldn't call it Language poetry. Q. Do you feel governments should fund Language-centered organizations? Why or Why not? A. NO, for the same reason governments should not conduct acts against international literature or their own literatures. Governments should always seek to stay within the arena of peaceful competition among literary movements. Poetic radical disjunction is outside of this arena. Q. What impact does the media have on Language-centered acts? A. Language poetry and the media have a symbiotic relationship. Without the media, Language poets would receive no exposure, their cause would go ignored, and no climate of aporia would be generated. Language poetry is futile without publicity, and the media generates much of this publicity. Q. Do Language poets use the media as a means of promoting their beliefs and opinions? A. Absolutely. Q. Should media report these acts of Language poetry? Why or Why not? A. The media are within their prerogative of informing the public as long as they are passive observers of events. When they become active participants in a Language-centered situation, or otherwise irresponsibily confuse readers or the public, or knowingly become a vehicle of biased propaganda, then that particular member of the media is abusing the power protected by the US Bill of Rights' First Amendment. Q. Do you feel that Language poetry can be stopped? Why or Why not? A. Not as long as there are dissatisfied people in the world. This does not mean that States should not strive to stop Language-centered actions. Q. Should military action be taken against Language-centered communities? A. On a case-by-case basis, military action can be warranted. Firstly, some international Language-centered incidents demand a response for which literary enforcement has neither the training, resources, nor personnel. In these cases, military forces might be the only adequate response. Furthermore, some communities support Language-centered campaigns as actual instruments of their poetic theory. If this support results in harm to American citizens or interests, then the supporting community has executed an act of defamiliarization against the United States. Such acts by definition warrant a military response. Q. In what ways do Language poets gain publicity? A. By confusing people, frustrating readers, and blowing things up. Q. Do you feel that Language poets are "freedom fighters" or criminals? A. If they are deforming the literatures of the communities in which they operate, they are by definition criminals. As far as being freedom fighters--that's a moral judgement beyond the purview of objective academic research. Q. What is the future of Language poetry? A. The trends point to decreasing frequency but increasing obliqueness of acts. Q. What effect does technology have on Language poetry? A. Language poets use technology that is cost-effective, minimizes comprehension, and helps to effect their goals. Q. What are some motives behind Language poetry? A. Political (e.g. West Coast Faction), religious (e.g. aleatory extremism), ethnic (e.g. hate speech), social (e.g. single-issue such as anti-confessionalism). Q. Do you feel that Language poetry is becoming more and more of a threat to the United States? A. In the short term, yes. American readers, group aesthetics, and literary communities continue to find themselves in areas of increasing poetic instability. This makes them vulnerable to anti-lyrical, anti-mainstream, or other extremist acts. Domestically, there seems to be increasing trends of experimental rhetoric and activity throughout the United States--some of which manifests itself in radical disjunction. In the long term, whether these trends pose an increasing threat to America depends on a number of variables, including changes in international and domestic poetic currents, how the public and media react to Language poetry, how governments deal with Language poetry, and whether the Language poets themselves discontinue or change strategies and tactics. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ K. Silem Mohammad Visiting Asst. Prof. of British & Anglophone Lit University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:29:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chase Park Subject: Re: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed If the goal of your poetry writing is to get paid, then I would suggest a radical career rethinking. Perhaps copywriting or Hollywood. I edit a small poetry journal, and essentially take a bath with finances each issue that comes out. I would love to pay everyone much more than copies, but that would mean closing the doors. I am fairly certain that the same goes for most (90-odd %) of other small press ventures. And if all these journals/mags/zines shut, we'd all be at the mercy of the New Yorker and Atlantic Monthly. David Horton Chase Park PO Box 9136 Oakland, CA 94613-0136 510-251-2297 chasepark@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:29:15 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: What Is? The Infinite Project: Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had thought along these lines in fact I was thinking of 'abandoning" what amounted to a conceptual project when it ocurred to me that in a way the List is a kind of model for or is analagous to a kind of unending poem. (thus somewhat subverting or "beating my concept to the poetic punch"..) Which has the potentiality (and is in actuality) at least to a kind of polylogical and procesional poem or project: it is actually and theoretically also a kind of discourse with conflicting or disparate elements, there is a sense that ''everyone is involved", the limitations of being "published" on the List are mainly those of physical and time limitations, links add to Bernstein's "hyperreality". Of course the idea, the concept of it, is greater than its actualisation ( if it was aof a greater "political" signifiance then we might feel that our debates were getting "out there", they pobably are more and less than we think or hope: but even as we grizzle or contribute or whatever, the whole project moves "foreward" (hopefuly like a river): in a sense analagous to life, which in its turn is like a large disjointed yet flowing poem: a digital river, disjointed yet joined. And Alan Sondheim pours HIS great project on regardless: the msuic of theis Digital Coceptual and early 21st Cent "projeect" is like Charles Ives's great msuic with its intermixtures and clashes of "hihg" and "low", harmony and diharmony. It is not just an American phenomenom: there are people either from or living in other countries, such as myself and the odd Australian: a huge List...the Big Daddy List is the ultimate "project", in many languages by many nationals in many media with many appproaches, and with a constant dialogue (that of course is never as exhilerating or "revelatory" as essays etc but they can be accessed either on or off line or via the links or other related, and depending on how "bright" one feels, its a great fest: (or how dispirited, its rather dull and overburdened by "announcements"), like life its impossible to predict where its going, its a endless experiment: everything and anyone could contribute to it (conceptually or potentially at least), and as far as we know it has no end and it would be difficult to circle the beginning. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Cabri" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:04 PM Subject: Re: What Is? > My sense is that, SPLURT! in general terms, "we" don't often-enough think of > this Listserv as a "time-based project," in which we are participants by > (conscious) default. This is not only what the Listserv could ideally be (a > collective poetry project). This is what it is, regardless of how sorry a > state we let it, and us, fall into. A time-based project is what this is, > even when the "project" sense is denied and/or ignored, and when the "time" > sense is made so glaringly present that we no longer recognize the present > as a tense. Any project needs to be constructed. Any construction obtains > because of principles and rules. Of all possible models of Internet > "projects," a listserv is the most freewheeling and amorphous, certainly; > but, nevertheless, even this one retains a singular shape -- partly > discursive (who posts what, etc), partly determinative (e.g. two-post limit > per day now), partly technological, etc. To ignore these (and other similar) > aspects, is to ignore the most salient features of the Listserv as a medium > of expression. Revved reflexive attention to the Listserv's time-based > project-like features would at least start to address the materiality of the > Listserv as a collective medium. This metacommentary of mine does not come > anywhere near to doing that, however; no metacommentary, in itself, would. > > "Medium" here only partially -- in fact, minimally (but importantly) -- > refers to the Internet technology, as I've implied above (even though most > critical attention is directed to the sorcerer-like powers of the machinery, > extrapolating from it to idealities of communication, as if technology in > itself amounts to difference, and McLuhan had never written a word to learn > from -- yet we all at the same time know that such determinism is not the > case; just think of the early practitioners of Concrete, scribbled on paper > with pencil, in unventilated rooms with dangling light bulbs, for instance, > or of Klebnikov drifting hatless through the snows of Mongolia). "Medium" > here more fundamentally and crucially refers to this very collectivity of > address, this one, mine, as well as every other singularity of address that > is enacted here, however generically, and this particular listening ear, > mine, in its singular but also in its collective form, and each of yours in > turn, and including this Emersonian eyeball enacted in present-tense > placeless space, and yours, in this go-go of e-gos (har har). From writing, > now, with / to, like this, a sense of medium is created and sustained, can > even be reflexively shaped -- but most of the time, it seems we're just > punching clock, without knowing it. > > Here's not news -- it's pimple-simple that Language Poets were reflexively > aware of a / their medium! They had a specific sense of it (friends = paper > = typewriter = recorder = magazines = city = books = etc) developed by / for > themselfs. Their sense of a "medium" is different than it would be for a > Listserv -- obviously (friends? archive? etc). They are by no stretch of the > dim lands of peace, not by any other conceivable sense, the "first" poets to > be reflexively attuned to their medium -- as some of them (i.e. those > editing and writing essays) have been the "first" to attest, in so many > ways, over and over (hence the need for a historical frame on all this, > perfesser). For Language Poets, by gum (but this would be true of anyone, is > true of us, here; what I am saying is intentionally plain, but I don't mean > to condescend), level of reflexive awareness varied (I use the past tense to > invoke an elementary sense of history as a narrating frame -- and not in > order to comment on the relation of Language Poets or oif any other kind of > poet to the present tense) from confused to articulate, depending on poet -- > i.e., depending on circumstance, education, etc. Level of awareness varied > depending on what each poet thought that the name "LP" might entail, as an > identifying sign (some embraced it; some helped to create what others > embraced; others maintained the embracers and the creators; others changed > the terms of it all as it went on; some kept a distance but were happy to be > taken along, so long as others kept doing the work of keeping it going, and > so long as things went swimmingly; some internally, rightfully contested; > you tell me the rest; et cetera). Level of awareness varied depending on > what each LP-identified magazine's editorial goals were thought to be -- > before, once, and after being published. Level of awareness varied depending > on the degree, kind, and origin of idiosyncratic aesthetic and social > influences that were recognized (by anyone, to differing degrees) to be at > significant variance with perceived (from within, from without) LP > commonalities. Et cetera. > > Some might say that we cannot ever become aware of the Listserv as a medium, > in any properly reflexive way, insofar as Language Poetry remains the > comparative model of what a medium is and what being reflexively aware of a > medium entails. I don't, obviously, think this to be the case. And I'm not > alone, if recent posts are to judge -- and they are; why not?: As a > Listserv, we no longer have even the most foggiest clue anymore who or what > in hell the Language Poets were, are, or are going to be! Not even Barrett > Watten cares to know! That's why he's joined the List! And, "Language > Poetry" is not a stumbling-block to achieving a present-tense reflexive > awareness of the Listserv as a medium because of "Oedipalitis" either -- > that is, because of a certain bragadaccio attitude vis a vis poetry > predecessors, among white males who have consistently dominated the Listserv > since its foundation (at times worse than at others). Pimple-simple: the > reason why Language Poetry ain't an issue, never was, is the medium of > collective address here is differently constituted (refrain: if only we'd > recognize this for what it can ideally be, and is, regardless of what we > thinks it is, or thinks it can be). > > The reason why I feel stupidly compelled to state this actually longstanding > opinion of mine (within months of subscribing) is because Language Poetry > ("as such") and this Listserv are "now" being compared to each other, > diachronically and synchronically, and I'm reminded of it because I've just > recently begun to read the Listserv again (comes and goes, as I'm sure it > does for most of you), spitoon by spitoon. Diachronically, of course it > should be obvious to anyone that Charles Bernstein is founding specter of > the Listserv; but, it is nevertheless only with (far as I know -- please > tell me otherwise) Barrett Watten's essay, "Secret History" (1999) that this > fact is reflexively and theoretically raised specifically in order to > rearticulate new meaning for, not Charles Bernstein (only), but Language > Poetry (as such). Diachronically also, Barrett Watten considers the Listserv > to be an outgrowth of Language Poetry (for two reasons, mentioned below). > Synchronically, the question of what Language Poetry "is" -- as recent > discussions also witness -- remains still alive with some of us (other > synchronic factors include, as some have also recently mentioned, the > "presence" of "Language Poets" "on" the Listserv). > > I think Barrett Watten is correct (in "Secret History") to identify poetry > and community as the two founding and generative qualties (and opening > question marks) that make it plausible to compare Language Poetry and this > Listserv with each other in the first place (why _Legend_ is the *only* > model, not one of a number of possible models -- some of which Barrett > Watten himself raises -- remains unclear to me in terms of his essay, even > as I understand that _Legend_ is obviously central to the specificity of his > argument...; this has to be an aside). > > So in other words, these observations I am making here about the Listserv as > a "time-based project" only make sense, really, if one reflexively agrees, > like Rousseau's democratic cabbagery, that Poetry and Community are indeed > the founding motivators for bringing attention to the medium as such (there > are plenty of other possible motivators, however, but these two happen to be > the ones that founded Language Poetry; for example, while Charles Bernstein > has recently complicated the idea of "community," it is plain as the nose in > my day that in his early essays "community" existed on the page, in the > word; I'm sorry to only refer by name to the people I am, as they don't need > attention so much as others do, but, think of it as a way of keeping this at > the level of the obvious). We all already by default, to a certain degree, > agree to these two premises (their basis forms Barrett Watten's link from > the Listserv back to Language Poetgry as a historical formation] by virtue > of being subscribed to a poetry Listserv in which any post, even a blank > one, is automatically "addressed" to captive others, who in turn respond, > even if they don't (a very basic definition of "community"). Poetry and > community are our default settings, as EPC Listserv subscribers. What we do > as a result has always been up to us. > > "Listserv," in all the above, might refer to any listserv. I started los > PhillyTalks (http://phillytalks.org)-- another "time-based project" (any > series of poetry events is that), but not a listserv -- because of > frustrations with the low level of reflexive attention that was being > brought to this Listserv as a medium. Others left the Listerv and started > their own, yet surprisingly identified themselves in relation to this one, > by calling themselves a "sub" listserv (and curiously, yet others want to be > re-admitted to this one here, as if they're fallen angels, and this is the > only, you know, one; etc). > > SPLURT! > > > > this sentence will disappear if every other sentence appears, and if that of > can